| 00:53.46 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@216.31.27.110) |
| 00:53.46 | *** mode/#utah [+v elg] by ChanServ |
| 01:59.17 | *** join/#utah beast (n=someone@c-76-27-91-208.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 02:53.19 | levi | Good evening. |
| 02:56.24 | *** join/#utah sargun-palm (n=upirc@atarack/staff/sargun) |
| 02:56.26 | sargun-palm | hi |
| 02:58.20 | levi | Hi. |
| 02:58.43 | levi | I slept in the top bunk of my camper van for the first time this weekend. |
| 02:59.05 | levi | It was pretty nice, though it could stand to be a little softer. |
| 03:20.29 | *** join/#utah sargun-palm (n=upirc@atarack/staff/sargun) |
| 04:04.38 | elg | levi: you just need to be a little tireder |
| 04:07.26 | levi | elg: I was pretty tired. I woke up a couple of times during the night, though, with parts of me numb. And it took a while for my hand to un-numb in the morning. |
| 04:11.14 | levi | OK, stupid homework done, time to read over the Primary lesson for tomorrow. :P |
| 04:15.23 | elg | i suppose that depends on your definition of stupid homework then. :) |
| 04:20.55 | *** join/#utah liotius (n=c@c-67-172-227-175.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 04:23.55 | levi | elg: Heh. Well, the stupid homework for my class is done. |
| 04:25.03 | levi | So, camping with young kids is a bit of a trial. |
| 04:25.43 | elg | comping? like playing jazz keyboard? |
| 04:26.22 | levi | No, camping. Like sleeping away from home more-or-less in the outdoors. |
| 04:27.11 | elg | oh |
| 04:27.13 | elg | stupid font. :) |
| 04:27.33 | elg | we went when jonny was little, it went ok |
| 04:27.42 | levi | How little? |
| 04:29.15 | elg | http://foton.fugal.net/foto/402 |
| 04:29.28 | elg | 8 mos |
| 04:29.44 | levi | Yeah, Ian, our 6-month-old, wasn't too bad this time. |
| 04:30.22 | levi | Anna was kind of freaked out about going to bed away from home, though. She's 2. |
| 04:43.26 | *** join/#utah unum_ (n=unum@70.89.247.221) |
| 05:04.55 | *** join/#utah Midorikawa (n=insanemo@oldoffice.bluehost.com) |
| 05:13.12 | tensai | ~lart elg |
| 05:13.12 | ibot | makes a balloon animal out of elg |
| 05:14.29 | encryptz | what would be the preferred filesystem for an external hard drive that will be shared between mac and linux? |
| 05:33.06 | *** join/#utah opapo (n=root@www.alpine.k12.ut.us) |
| 05:42.55 | *** join/#utah undertakingyou (n=will@undertakingyou.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 05:53.34 | sontek | encryptz: I'd probably use HFS just because I know Linux has good support for it via fuse, I dunno how well mac works with anything |
| 05:57.43 | encryptz | yeah. i was trying hfs, but it was complaining that my partition was not a multiple of 4k blocks |
| 05:57.56 | encryptz | i certainly don't want to cut good hdd space, just because hfs says so |
| 05:59.15 | encryptz | i think i'll settle on ntfs actually, via the ntfs-3g driver |
| 05:59.21 | encryptz | which is available for both |
| 06:11.13 | elg | encryptz: hfs+ w/o journaling |
| 06:11.37 | elg | mac doesn't have ntfs write support, afaik |
| 06:11.57 | elg | maybe there's a way with fuse though, not sure |
| 06:12.11 | elg | but last I looked, ntfs wasn't viable |
| 06:32.26 | *** join/#utah Midorikawa (n=insanemo@oldoffice.bluehost.com) |
| 08:23.54 | *** join/#utah liona29 (n=liona29@d033.dhcp212-198-248.noos.fr) |
| 09:08.38 | *** join/#utah RyanE_ (i=Piadas@rberick.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 09:44.52 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@216.31.27.110) |
| 09:44.52 | *** mode/#utah [+v elg] by ChanServ |
| 13:30.07 | encryptz | elg: linux and mac both support ntfs through ntfs-3g and fuse. |
| 13:30.40 | encryptz | not sure if i want to do hfs, as it suffers from not being a multi-tasked filesystem- one app gets write access, while the others wait in queue |
| 13:31.47 | encryptz | i find it sad that mac, being freebsd based, can't support a number of the FOSS filesystems. this really shouldn't be an issue |
| 13:32.37 | *** join/#utah Sargun (n=Sargun@atarack/staff/sargun) |
| 13:33.32 | encryptz | but then, ntfs suffers, bad, from block fragmentation, and i'm not thrilled about that |
| 13:34.35 | Sargun | NTFS is painful. |
| 13:35.25 | encryptz | ouch. and hfs has bad data block allocation for large drives |
| 13:35.57 | encryptz | "Additionally, the limit of 65,535 allocation blocks resulted in files having a "minimum" size equivalent 1/65,535th the size of the disk. Thus, any given volume, no matter its size, could only store a maximum of 65,535 files." |
| 13:35.57 | Sargun | No matter how much Obj-C programmers make, never going there: http://theunixgeek.blogspot.com/2008/06/programming-salaries.html |
| 13:36.07 | Sargun | HFS+ also? |
| 13:36.19 | Sargun | Or is the only difference between HFS and HFS+ the journaling? |
| 13:36.28 | encryptz | "Moreover, any file would be allocated more space than it actually needed, up to the allocation block size." |
| 13:36.53 | encryptz | i'm troubled over finding a good filesystem for my 1TB drive that both linux and mac can share |
| 13:37.13 | encryptz | hfs is definitely *not* the path i want to go |
| 13:37.32 | encryptz | mac has ext2 support through a 3rd party utility, maybe i'll go that route |
| 13:39.06 | Sargun | encryptz, How is your power, and your machine's quality? |
| 13:40.05 | encryptz | it's externally powered |
| 13:40.08 | Sargun | And what kind of machine do you have? |
| 13:40.15 | encryptz | t61 |
| 13:40.27 | encryptz | and ibook g4 |
| 13:40.30 | Sargun | Dude, just run embedded Linux |
| 13:40.45 | encryptz | how will that solve my problem? |
| 13:40.50 | Sargun | They aren't the same machine... |
| 13:41.03 | Sargun | I was cut off in my words when you mentioned they were two DIFFERENT machines |
| 13:41.25 | encryptz | 07:36 < encryptz> i'm troubled over finding a good filesystem for my 1TB drive that both linux and mac can share |
| 13:41.49 | Sargun | Well I thought you have one of those new fancy mactel machines |
| 13:42.02 | Sargun | or you were installing it on the T61. (it being MAC OS X) |
| 13:42.44 | encryptz | i need to store, so far, 3200 photos, and several digital camera videos, as well as my ever increasing flac collection |
| 13:43.28 | Sargun | Uhm. |
| 13:43.45 | Sargun | How much are you willing to spend? |
| 13:43.54 | encryptz | i've already purchased the drive |
| 13:44.06 | Sargun | The drive bay? |
| 13:44.11 | encryptz | you're missing the point. i need a filesystem |
| 13:44.31 | encryptz | mac doesn't support xfs, jfs, ext3, reiser.... |
| 13:44.39 | encryptz | linux doesn't support hfs+ |
| 13:44.44 | Sargun | No, no. |
| 13:44.50 | encryptz | the fat-family, including nfs, suck |
| 13:44.56 | romenquettadil | couldn't you attach the drive on th linux machine and then use a network fs supported by mac? |
| 13:44.58 | encryptz | so, what am i left with? |
| 13:44.58 | Sargun | I'm recommending you purchase something like this: http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=NSLU2&oe=utf-8&cid=2095851613123579156 |
| 13:45.09 | Sargun | and run CIFS/NFS/Blah on it. |
| 13:45.21 | Sargun | and underlying use XFS |
| 13:45.24 | encryptz | romenquettadil: i could, but i don't have an always-on computer with usb 2.0 |
| 13:45.52 | encryptz | of my 2 servers, one is an old pentium, the other an old sparc |
| 13:45.57 | romenquettadil | you could use a product as Sargun suggested |
| 13:46.08 | romenquettadil | a "NAS extender" |
| 13:46.42 | encryptz | maybe. that's just more hardware i have to purchase/support |
| 13:47.07 | romenquettadil | the mac lack of fs support is quite well known |
| 13:47.20 | encryptz | it's irritating, and shouldn't exist |
| 13:47.30 | romenquettadil | I agree with you |
| 13:47.38 | Sargun | Its mac, it runs an OS which is a piece of crap. |
| 13:47.42 | Sargun | It's |
| 13:47.50 | Sargun | It's a |
| 13:48.53 | romenquettadil | at he moment you have to choose between interoperability and performance and optimization of fs |
| 13:53.22 | Sargun | Or you could install LINUX on your mac |
| 13:55.15 | encryptz | you mean my wife's mac |
| 13:55.24 | encryptz | yeah. that's not happening |
| 13:55.42 | encryptz | i can hardly get within 10' of it |
| 13:58.10 | Sargun | I got Linux on lakshmi's Lenovo Laptop. |
| 13:58.23 | *** join/#utah ccjoe (n=joeg@75-169-39-184.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 13:58.24 | Sargun | Or run it within a VM |
| 13:58.37 | Sargun | and mount it within that |
| 14:10.45 | *** join/#utah romenquettadil (i=d59c23ef@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-6dca2f9ec3f8715d) |
| 15:03.40 | elg | encryptz: i know that, but i investigated it and determined it wasn't ready for prime time on osx |
| 15:04.26 | *** join/#utah linuxalien (i=UNKNOWN@oalug/member/linuxalien) |
| 15:05.18 | elg | encryptz: and linux does support hfs+ |
| 15:05.31 | elg | read/write, if you don't use journaling |
| 15:07.00 | elg | i also looked at ext2 support in osx and wasn't impressed. someday maybe. zfs might be the first viable alternative to hfs+. of course, if you find something that works well and is stable, do tell (or blog). I'd especially love to see xfs or ext3 |
| 15:12.25 | elg | incidentally you can enable/disable journaling on an hfs+ volume in osx whenever you want |
| 15:14.54 | sontek | http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20080608 |
| 15:14.56 | brac | [UserFriendly Strip Comments] |
| 15:21.38 | sontek | encryptz: I use ntfs on my external drive so my friends can use it to get my music/videos and it works well |
| 15:21.55 | sontek | haven't lost any data and I don't notice if its slow since I'm just using it to store files, not run an OS on it |
| 15:23.28 | sontek | fragmentation isn't really an issue, you could just cron job it or something 'defrag at 4am!' that gives it a couple ours to defrag while you are sleeping (hopefully) :P |
| 15:37.30 | *** join/#utah liotius (n=c@c-67-172-227-175.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 16:46.51 | *** join/#utah Zelut (n=christer@ubuntu/member/zelut) |
| 16:57.54 | Sargun | sontek, that doesn't work well in production systems. |
| 17:09.13 | sontek | Sargun: hes using it to hold music and personal photos |
| 17:09.20 | sontek | Sargun: I wouldn't consider that "production" |
| 17:09.57 | Sargun | my system that holds personal photos, and music has RAID5, UPS, and remote backup? |
| 17:10.26 | Sargun | I consider that production |
| 17:10.37 | Sargun | (This was after the last system caught fire) |
| 17:11.09 | sontek | so why doesn't it work in that case? |
| 17:11.16 | sontek | you aren't hurting for performance or anything |
| 17:11.30 | sontek | and provides a solution to sharing between mac/linux |
| 17:12.00 | Sargun | while you defrag it does |
| 17:12.31 | sontek | yes, defragging does, but my point was that in a personal system like that it doesn't matter much |
| 17:12.45 | sontek | especially if you do it at a time you'll be sleeping |
| 17:14.32 | Sargun | What if one day he stays up until 4 AM? |
| 17:18.00 | sontek | Sargun: then it tells it not to defrag? |
| 17:18.31 | sontek | he could probably even schedule it weekly or monthly, daily is kind of going overboard |
| 17:18.45 | Sargun | if the power goes out during defrag? |
| 17:18.58 | goozbach | don't feed the trolls |
| 17:19.24 | Sargun | turns off goozbach's power. |
| 17:19.25 | sontek | Sargun: Both are laptops, power doesn't matter |
| 17:19.35 | sontek | Sargun: unless it takes a very long time for it to come back |
| 17:19.35 | Sargun | He said externally powered. |
| 17:19.51 | sontek | thats just silly |
| 17:20.00 | sontek | who buys external drives that aren't usb powered? |
| 17:26.41 | *** join/#utah linuxalien (i=UNKNOWN@oalug/member/linuxalien) |
| 17:29.57 | Supaplex | external drives that require more power than the usb bus is permitted to deliver? |
| 17:42.19 | Tene | Supaplex: drives can't buy drives. that's madness! |
| 17:42.38 | elg | some drives are usb powered but not by all hosts, e.g. laptops that don't give enough power |
| 17:43.11 | Sargun | Oh, it was ugly today! |
| 17:46.28 | elg | yum |
| 17:46.32 | elg | nothing like a reuben sandwich |
| 17:46.37 | elg | except another reuben sandwich |
| 18:37.57 | *** join/#utah liotius (n=c@c-67-172-227-175.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 18:59.22 | *** join/#utah calvarez (n=Hhhhh@ip70-176-132-101.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 19:22.03 | *** join/#utah QuasarRichter (n=nospam@pontiacil-244.illinois.prairieinet.net) |
| 19:27.27 | *** join/#utah linuxalien (i=UNKNOWN@oalug/member/linuxalien) |
| 19:30.15 | *** part/#utah QuasarRichter (n=nospam@pontiacil-244.illinois.prairieinet.net) |
| 19:40.43 | *** join/#utah ti`ocpi (n=chelle@pleasedieinafire.net) |
| 19:45.33 | *** part/#utah Hhhhh (n=Hhhhh@ip70-176-132-101.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 20:06.01 | *** join/#utah encryptz (n=aaron@ubuntu/member/pdpc.supporter.bronze.atoponce) |
| 20:30.59 | *** join/#utah lakshmi (n=lakshmi@unaffiliated/lakshmi) |
| 20:33.00 | Supaplex | snacks on el fudge cookies |
| 21:03.49 | encryptz | so, i found an ieee1394a and usb2.0 pci card lying around |
| 21:04.01 | encryptz | threw it in the server, now i have nfs for my 1 TB |
| 21:06.33 | Sargun | Nice. |
| 21:08.33 | *** join/#utah jnbek (n=jnbek@unaffiliated/jnbek) |
| 21:42.43 | *** join/#utah beast (n=beast@c-76-27-91-208.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 22:08.24 | *** join/#utah fozzmoo (n=fozz@166-70-238-250.ip.xmission.com) |
| 22:37.39 | elg | everybody's doing a brand new dance noooowwwww |
| 22:37.51 | elg | ~say come on baby, do the harleymotion |
| 22:37.52 | ibot | come on baby, do the harleymotion |
| 23:33.36 | *** join/#utah linuxalien (i=UNKNOWN@oalug/member/linuxalien) |
| 23:48.01 | Supaplex | -excuse |
| 23:48.02 | brac | Unoptimized hard drive |
| 23:48.13 | linuxalien | -excuse |
| 23:48.14 | brac | Increased sunspot activity. |
| 23:48.27 | linuxalien | My brother would like that one. He's a physics major. |