| 00:15.52 | *** join/#utah southernutahguy (n=southern@71-213-99-106.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 00:16.52 | southernutahguy | so whats up room? |
| 00:21.53 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@216.31.27.110) |
| 00:21.53 | *** mode/#utah [+v elg] by ChanServ |
| 00:33.23 | *** join/#utah decriptor (n=decripto@166-70-62-135.ip.xmission.com) |
| 00:33.40 | decriptor | fedora guys, what version is pulse audio in fedora 9 |
| 00:35.19 | sinuhe | 0.9.10 |
| 01:16.04 | *** join/#utah lakshmi (n=lakshmi@66-240-25-49.isp.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 02:11.14 | findlay | hello |
| 02:11.14 | ibot | privet |
| 02:11.18 | findlay | hi |
| 02:11.18 | ibot | hey |
| 02:11.22 | findlay | hey |
| 02:15.05 | findlay | ~random |
| 02:17.38 | findlay | -chat |
| 02:17.39 | brac | +~lart nothing |
| 02:17.52 | findlay | -chat ~lart lakshmi |
| 02:17.52 | brac | ~lart lakshmi |
| 02:17.52 | ibot | whips out a sword and chops lakshmi in half |
| 02:18.22 | lakshmi | UGHG |
| 02:18.36 | findlay | sews lakshmi back together |
| 02:21.28 | *** join/#utah emcnabb (n=emcnabb@cpe-069-134-233-156.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 02:21.28 | *** mode/#utah [+v emcnabb] by ChanServ |
| 02:23.21 | findlay | 18:15 -!- southernutahguy [n=southern@71-213-99-106.slkc.qwest.net] has joined #utah |
| 02:23.31 | findlay | stupid mouse |
| 02:29.01 | findlay | -google lakshmi |
| 02:29.02 | brac | lakshmi: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lakshmi |
| 02:29.11 | findlay | -google findlay |
| 02:29.11 | brac | findlay: http://www.findlay.edu/ |
| 02:29.17 | findlay | yay |
| 02:32.12 | findlay | -google brac |
| 02:32.13 | brac | brac: http://www.brac.gov/ |
| 02:32.23 | findlay | -google ibot |
| 02:32.23 | brac | ibot: http://www.ibotnow.com/ |
| 02:34.12 | Sargun | -excuse |
| 02:34.12 | brac | Runt packets |
| 02:34.15 | Sargun | -excuse |
| 02:34.15 | brac | The ATM board has run out of 10 pound notes. We are having a whip round to refill it, care to contribute ? |
| 02:34.23 | Sargun | hehe |
| 02:34.33 | Sargun | -excuse |
| 02:34.33 | brac | wrong polarity of neutron flow |
| 02:36.44 | *** join/#utah roving_prole_ (n=Harper@c-98-202-87-164.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 02:42.35 | *** join/#utah lakshmi (n=lakshmi@unaffiliated/lakshmi) |
| 02:42.37 | lakshmi | omg |
| 02:42.50 | *** join/#utah keldwud (n=keldwud@cpe-76-93-70-172.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 02:44.39 | findlay | -excuse |
| 02:44.39 | brac | It works the way the Wang did, what's the problem |
| 02:44.45 | findlay | -help |
| 02:44.45 | brac | help topics: core, auth [53 plugins: 8ball, autoop, autorejoin, bans, bash, cal, chucknorris, deepthought, demauro, dice, digg, dns, excuse, figlet, forecast, fortune, freshmeat, host, imdb, insult, iplookup|userip, karmastats|karma, keyword|forget|tell, lart, lastfm, markov|chat, math, movieplot|movietitle, nickserv, opme, qauth, quotes, realm, remind, roshambo, rot13, roulette, |
| 02:44.46 | brac | rps, rss, rubyurl, search|google, seen, slashdot, spell, threat, tinyurl, topic, translate, tube, urban, urls, weather|metar, wserver; 13 plugins ignored: use help ignored plugins to see why] (help <topic> for more info) |
| 02:45.04 | findlay | -chucknorris |
| 02:45.05 | brac | Chuck Norris does not have pubic hair, he has a groin beard. [score=6.477] |
| 02:45.19 | findlay | -dice |
| 02:45.20 | brac | incorrect usage: dice <string> (where <string> is something like: d6 or 2d6 or 2d6+4 or 2d6+1d20 or 2d6+1d5+4d7-3d4-6) => Rolls that set of virtual dice |
| 02:47.08 | findlay | -karma |
| 02:47.08 | brac | karma for findlay: 7 |
| 02:47.14 | findlay | yay |
| 02:47.20 | findlay | -deepthought |
| 02:47.20 | brac | Anytime I see something screech across a room and latch onto someone's neck, and the guy screams and tries to get it off, I have to laugh, because what is that thing. |
| 02:48.19 | findlay | -fortune |
| 02:48.20 | brac | Don't relax! It's only your tension that's holding you together. |
| 02:48.41 | findlay | -urban |
| 02:48.41 | brac | incorrect usage: urban [word] [n]. Give the [n]th definition of [word] from urbandictionary.com. |
| 02:49.55 | findlay | -realm |
| 02:49.55 | brac | I don't know which realm you want. |
| 02:49.55 | brac | realm <realm> => determine the status of a Warcraft realm |
| 02:55.03 | findlay | -remind |
| 02:55.03 | brac | incorrect usage, ask for help using 'brac: help remind' |
| 02:57.34 | findlay | -chat incorrect usage, |
| 02:57.34 | brac | incorrect usage, ask for it? |
| 03:05.14 | findlay | -demauro |
| 03:05.14 | brac | incorrect usage, ask for help using 'brac: help demauro' |
| 03:44.31 | lakshmi | swear |
| 03:50.00 | *** join/#utah undertakingyou (n=will@undertakingyou.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 04:01.49 | *** join/#utah Dew420 (n=Nishi@c-67-164-197-204.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 04:07.02 | Sargun | -karma |
| 04:07.03 | brac | Sargun has neutral karma |
| 04:08.45 | lakshmi | -karma |
| 04:08.45 | brac | lakshmi has neutral karma |
| 04:08.51 | lakshmi | no |
| 04:08.59 | lakshmi | i have amazing karma |
| 04:10.21 | Sargun | brac, you are death |
| 04:10.22 | brac | but you are funny |
| 04:10.26 | Sargun | brac, no, you are death |
| 04:10.26 | brac | okay then :) |
| 04:10.29 | Sargun | -death |
| 04:10.32 | Sargun | -you |
| 04:10.40 | Sargun | brac, what is you |
| 04:10.40 | brac | can do! |
| 04:17.49 | *** join/#utah Dew420 (n=Nishi@c-67-164-197-204.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 04:21.25 | *** join/#utah tiwula (n=lane@208.64.90.18.static.utahbroadband.com) |
| 04:29.51 | *** join/#utah ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) |
| 04:29.51 | *** topic/#utah is http://plug.org/irc | Channel log @ http://ibot.rikers.org/%23utah/ | UTOSC 2008 Call for Papers @http://2008.utosc.com | tensai has a new daughter - Congratulations! |
| 04:29.51 | *** mode/#utah [+o ibot] by ChanServ |
| 04:33.24 | lakshmi | where did ibot go? |
| 04:44.18 | *** join/#utah Midorikawa (n=insanemo@oldoffice.bluehost.com) |
| 05:03.40 | *** join/#utah ph4se (n=ph4se@phase.staff.slcpl.org) |
| 05:04.30 | Supaplex | -seen ibot |
| 05:04.30 | brac | ibot was last seen 34 minutes and 27 seconds ago, saying I'm Back! |
| 05:27.41 | *** join/#utah Dew420 (n=Nishi@c-67-164-197-204.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 05:53.04 | *** part/#utah keldwud (n=keldwud@cpe-76-93-70-172.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 06:52.02 | maquis | tensai: bu yong xie! |
| 07:20.39 | findlay | ~seen ibot |
| 07:20.41 | ibot | ibot is currently on #bzflag (2h 50m 36s) #brlcad (2h 50m 36s) #handhelds (2h 50m 36s) #utah (2h 50m 36s) #oe (2h 50m 36s) #zaurus (2h 50m 36s) #gllug (2h 50m 36s) #pillbox (2h 50m 36s) #handhelds-gpe (2h 50m 36s) #openzaurus (2h 50m 36s) #silvercat (2h 50m 36s) #opie (2h 50m 36s) #handhelds-familiar (2h 50m 36s) #uclibc (2h 50m 36s) #elinux (2h 50m 36s) ... |
| 07:29.18 | Sargun | wow. |
| 07:29.21 | Sargun | ~seen self. |
| 07:29.22 | ibot | Sargun: i haven't seen 'self.' |
| 07:29.24 | Sargun | ~seen self |
| 07:29.24 | ibot | self <n=self@pD957A6E3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> was last seen on IRC in channel #kde, 641d 17h 3m 55s ago, saying: 'logixoul: no - the whole system'. |
| 07:29.31 | Sargun | ~seen Sargun |
| 07:29.31 | ibot | sargun is currently on #botpark #maemo #utah. Has said a total of 4 messages. Is idling for 1s, last said: '~seen Sargun '. |
| 07:29.42 | Sargun | its stalking me! |
| 10:42.37 | *** join/#utah keldwud (n=keldwud@cpe-76-93-70-172.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 10:58.08 | *** part/#utah keldwud (n=keldwud@cpe-76-93-70-172.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 11:40.26 | *** join/#utah emcnabb (n=emcnabb@cpe-069-134-233-156.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 11:40.26 | *** mode/#utah [+v emcnabb] by ChanServ |
| 11:47.45 | Sargun | -excuse |
| 11:47.45 | brac | Increased sunspot activity. |
| 11:47.48 | Sargun | hehe. |
| 11:47.49 | Sargun | -excuse |
| 11:47.49 | brac | the AA battery in the wallclock sends magnetic interference |
| 12:16.51 | *** join/#utah sinuhe (n=user@65.202.63.210) |
| 13:01.46 | elg | -chat |
| 13:01.51 | brac | This is hilarious: http://www.sneakmove.com/2007/03/video-help-police.html |
| 13:20.02 | *** join/#utah emcnabb (n=emcnabb@nat/redhat/x-a379a40e1abf838f) |
| 13:20.11 | *** mode/#utah [+v emcnabb] by ChanServ |
| 13:43.04 | *** join/#utah gshipley (n=gshipley@nat/redhat/x-4168ce29f7a42578) |
| 13:56.33 | ^Migs^ | this seems pretty cool: http://code.google.com/p/openmeetings/ |
| 14:04.28 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@216.31.27.110) |
| 14:04.28 | *** mode/#utah [+v elg] by ChanServ |
| 14:05.48 | jsmith | ^Migs^: Yeah... if it's everything it's cracked up to be, it really does. |
| 14:06.02 | jsmith | ^Migs^: Unfortunately, I couldn't get any of the demos to work last night |
| 14:06.13 | jsmith | ^Migs^: Tell me when you've got it all working and documented ;-) |
| 14:06.16 | ^Migs^ | yeah, me neither |
| 14:06.27 | ^Migs^ | they provide a pretty straightforward installation video |
| 14:06.32 | jsmith | Oh? |
| 14:06.35 | jsmith | I didn't watch that one |
| 14:06.36 | ^Migs^ | documented, too? |
| 14:06.43 | ^Migs^ | you sure are demanding |
| 14:06.46 | jsmith | ^Migs^: I'm a stickler for documentation! |
| 14:07.01 | jsmith | If it's ain't documented, it doesn't exist... |
| 14:07.11 | jsmith | fires his typist |
| 14:07.15 | ^Migs^ | I, for one, find it thrilling to explore the frontier of undocumented software |
| 14:07.28 | jsmith | If it isn't documented, it's a figment of someone's imagination ;-) |
| 14:08.03 | jsmith | Where would we be if bank accounts weren't documented? What about land ownership?!? |
| 14:08.14 | ^Migs^ | well, that's different |
| 14:08.17 | jsmith | climbs off his soapbox and goes back to work |
| 14:08.33 | ^Migs^ | if I write a program and don't document, I can get away with just calling them noobs and sending trainers to train them |
| 14:08.35 | jsmith | ^Migs^: Ultimately, isn't the goal of software to build real world value? |
| 14:09.06 | *** join/#utah markl__ (n=mark@c-24-10-191-137.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 14:09.12 | jsmith | ^Migs^: If so, then shouldn't we stop building software shanty-towns? And isn't documentation one good step towards the end goal? |
| 14:09.35 | ^Migs^ | bleh, I suppose |
| 14:09.55 | ^Migs^ | maybe I should insist we hire a technical writer, because I ain't documenting my sloppy apps |
| 14:12.28 | jsmith | ^Migs^: That's fine... you go on living in your shanty-town... as for me, I'm hiring a surveyor |
| 14:12.37 | ^Migs^ | haha |
| 14:12.40 | ^Migs^ | fair enough |
| 14:13.11 | jsmith | A wise boss of mine once taught me that if it's worth writing, it's worth writing again. |
| 14:13.32 | jsmith | (And the corollary is that it's a *whole* lot easier to rewrite if it's documented.) |
| 14:16.19 | *** join/#utah utahcon (n=barreta@bromine.sosstaffing.com) |
| 14:22.29 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@dhcp12.cs.nmsu.edu) |
| 14:22.29 | *** mode/#utah [+v elg] by ChanServ |
| 14:27.35 | elg | ~stick jsmith |
| 14:34.13 | elg | radishes and a garlic sprout |
| 14:34.25 | jsmith | elg: Huh? |
| 14:34.31 | elg | in my garden |
| 14:35.04 | jsmith | Ah, cool... |
| 14:39.51 | elg | no, actually it'll be almost 100° all week |
| 14:39.58 | elg | :( |
| 14:43.40 | ^Migs^ | is there a command-line utility that automatically captures thumbnails or screenshots of web pages? |
| 14:44.17 | ^Migs^ | I found the Pearl Crescent Page Saver for Firefox, but it's limited in functionality unless you buy the Pro version |
| 14:47.30 | *** join/#utah mrpull (i=xmjake@newshell.xmission.com) |
| 15:01.55 | *** join/#utah TimRiker (n=timr@70-7-71-244.area7.spcsdns.net) |
| 15:01.55 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 15:03.08 | *** join/#utah fungus (n=olsonl@bromine.sosstaffing.com) |
| 15:06.41 | *** join/#utah thaddeusq (n=thaddeus@216.49.181.128) |
| 15:11.35 | *** join/#utah bonez45 (n=scott@75.144.9.237) |
| 15:14.14 | *** join/#utah neybar (n=jalance@208.187.180.182) |
| 15:15.46 | levi | Good morning. |
| 15:17.53 | sinuhe | Morning levi |
| 15:19.30 | unum | anyone every see this in there apache log: |
| 15:19.36 | unum | s/there/their |
| 15:19.38 | unum | [Mon May 19 04:09:43 2008] [notice] SIGHUP received. Attempting to restart |
| 15:19.38 | unum | [Mon May 19 04:09:43 2008] [notice] seg fault or similar nasty error detected in the parent process |
| 15:20.20 | harleypig | unum: I've seen that when modules are having problems ... bad config, bad object, etc. |
| 15:20.45 | harleypig | I've also seen that when apache is dependant on a different library than what is installed. |
| 15:21.06 | unum | hmmmm |
| 15:21.22 | unum | this is the first time I've seen it |
| 15:21.32 | unum | our web surver was done for 5 hours because of it |
| 15:22.14 | unum | there's a reason I spell surver that way.... |
| 15:22.38 | harleypig | or perhaps a module is dependant on a different library and wasn't accessed until needed. |
| 15:22.43 | harleypig | *shrug* dunno. |
| 15:22.55 | harleypig | <nelson>hah hah</nelson> |
| 15:23.04 | harleypig | that was for Jayce^ |
| 15:23.25 | *** join/#utah RyanE_ (i=Piadas@rberick.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 15:23.30 | unum | would it be best to set up wget or hping to test to so if my web server dies |
| 15:24.01 | harleypig | no idea ... check your access logs and see if you can see anything there. |
| 15:24.23 | harleypig | Does apache start up ok? |
| 15:26.11 | *** join/#utah Jayce^ (n=Jayce^@lug-nut.com) |
| 15:28.22 | harleypig | http://picasaweb.google.com/alansyoungiii/Me |
| 15:28.26 | harleypig | I'm bald! |
| 15:42.02 | *** join/#utah ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) |
| 15:42.02 | *** topic/#utah is http://plug.org/irc | Channel log @ http://ibot.rikers.org/%23utah/ | UTOSC 2008 Call for Papers @http://2008.utosc.com | tensai has a new daughter - Congratulations! |
| 15:42.02 | *** mode/#utah [+o ibot] by ChanServ |
| 15:42.36 | harleypig | unum: That's all I've got ... I' |
| 15:42.55 | harleypig | m a programmer not a sysadmin damnit! |
| 15:42.56 | harleypig | :> |
| 15:43.51 | unum | harleypig: thanks :) |
| 15:43.59 | unum | gets to be everythnig |
| 15:44.01 | unum | thing |
| 15:44.26 | unum | I'm a sysadmin, c++ desktop developer, web application devloper, dba, and helpdesk |
| 15:44.49 | Sargun | uhm |
| 15:44.51 | Sargun | cool. |
| 15:45.29 | unum | too bad I have no idea what I'm doing with any of them..... |
| 15:45.44 | unum | but fortunately I still get paid |
| 15:46.17 | Sargun | C++ sucks. |
| 15:46.49 | Sargun | developing in C++ is like developing in batch. |
| 15:48.52 | elg | ah, UHF is shipping |
| 15:48.59 | elg | (netflix) |
| 15:49.06 | elg | I've never seen it |
| 15:50.16 | harleypig | Watch out mistuh Coyote! |
| 15:57.34 | decriptor | looking for some imput as to which is the better function language to learn |
| 15:58.19 | elg | what do you want to get out of it? |
| 15:59.23 | decriptor | elg: better programming skillz |
| 15:59.38 | decriptor | someone recommended that I pick up some function language |
| 15:59.50 | elg | i think that's a good idea. I'm trying to do it too |
| 16:00.04 | decriptor | I've heard of erlang, haskel, ml, |
| 16:00.06 | elg | but, as with all things, some functional languages are better at some problem sets than others |
| 16:01.08 | *** join/#utah neybar (n=jalance@208.187.180.182) |
| 16:01.09 | elg | if you just want a pedagogical exercise, I think I can recommend this book I'm reading. it's easy to follow, but definitely theoretical. I think it will translate to improved skillz along with some practice in a real language |
| 16:01.30 | elg | http://www.amazon.com/Functional-Programming-Practice-Bruce-Maclennan/dp/0201137445 |
| 16:01.40 | unum | owns uhf |
| 16:02.25 | elg | from a review, "For the purpose of general instruction this may well be unexcelled in the field. Upon completion the reader will have a better underlying understanding of any particular functional language than peers who have been programming in one ad-hoc for a substantially longer time." |
| 16:02.35 | elg | again, I'm not done with it nor am I a functional language guru |
| 16:02.46 | elg | but I spent a semester coding in scheme and ended up knowing jack |
| 16:03.07 | elg | and I'm 1/3 through this book and though I haven't done any real practice I feel much more confident |
| 16:04.05 | elg | anyway, if you have no other criteria I'd say go with erlang |
| 16:04.38 | elg | the indoctrination in the parallel paradigm will be of great value |
| 16:05.00 | elg | clojure also looks interesting, I think that's the one I'll start toying with son |
| 16:05.01 | elg | soon |
| 16:05.16 | decriptor | um... |
| 16:05.21 | Sargun | elg, what about erlang? |
| 16:05.42 | elg | just what I said |
| 16:05.46 | decriptor | I might have to look at that book, I was thinkg about erlang |
| 16:05.47 | elg | what else do you want to know? |
| 16:06.12 | decriptor | from what I was told knowing functional programming == better programmer |
| 16:06.18 | decriptor | and I want to be a better programmer :P |
| 16:06.19 | Sargun | Erlang is difficult, complex, etc.. |
| 16:06.23 | Sargun | but powerful. |
| 16:06.32 | elg | i wouldn't say that |
| 16:06.43 | elg | it's a different paradigm, yes |
| 16:07.20 | elg | switching from a von neumann language to a functional language is nontrivial, yes |
| 16:07.31 | *** join/#utah Jayce (n=jayce@office.bluehost.com) |
| 16:07.31 | *** mode/#utah [+o Jayce] by ChanServ |
| 16:07.34 | elg | but I wouldn't say erlang is difficult, complex, etc. |
| 16:07.37 | elg | ~operate Jayce |
| 16:07.51 | elg | ~op Jayce |
| 16:07.51 | ibot | ACTION Mode change "+o Jayce" on channel #utah by ibot |
| 16:08.08 | Jayce | *sniff* alas, my poor server is down |
| 16:08.14 | elg | ~deop Jayce |
| 16:08.20 | decriptor | no server no op |
| 16:08.25 | decriptor | that's just how it is |
| 16:08.38 | Jayce | can still kick you decriptor |
| 16:08.56 | *** mode/#utah [-o Jayce] by ChanServ |
| 16:09.02 | decriptor | says bring you messed up perl lovin' ... |
| 16:09.10 | decriptor | :P |
| 16:09.44 | decriptor | notes that its all jayce's fault that I'm asking :) |
| 16:10.06 | *** join/#utah TylerWhitaker (n=Tyler@209.90.94.76) |
| 16:11.01 | *** mode/#utah [+o Jayce] by ChanServ |
| 16:12.59 | ^Migs^ | my wife just said last night at around 4:00am there was some lady driving into every driveway in our cul-de-sac. She would get out of the car, walk up to the garage, look around for a bit, then get back in her acr. |
| 16:13.00 | ^Migs^ | *car |
| 16:13.19 | ^Migs^ | what could she have possibly been doing? |
| 16:14.03 | jsmith | ^Migs^: Checking to see if the garage door is open, so she can steal stuff |
| 16:14.22 | jsmith | ^Migs^: It's not that uncommon... they'll snatch whatever they can out of your (unlocked) cars in the garage. |
| 16:14.24 | elg | looking for her runaway garage door opener |
| 16:14.41 | *** join/#utah gshipley (n=gshipley@nat/redhat/x-2580574f70f8848f) |
| 16:15.29 | *** join/#utah tiwula (n=lane@75.148.99.197) |
| 16:15.54 | elg | so why didn't whoever saw her call the cops? |
| 16:15.58 | *** join/#utah sjansen (n=sjansen@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com) |
| 16:16.04 | elg | ~lart sjansen |
| 16:16.05 | ibot | explains, ever so gently, that if sjansen doesn't give the channel more information, they can't help |
| 16:16.08 | ^Migs^ | you're probably right, jsmith. I was hoping that wouldn't be it, since we live in a secluded neighborhood |
| 16:16.21 | elg | what better place? |
| 16:16.31 | elg | security by obscurity... |
| 16:17.04 | ^Migs^ | but our neighborhood is, like, impossible find if you don't have a map |
| 16:17.23 | elg | maybe she wanted to steal your morning paper |
| 16:17.38 | decriptor | looking for her cat ? |
| 16:17.54 | decriptor | crazy people or just too drunk to know where she was |
| 16:18.01 | jsmith | ^Migs^: I had both of my cars broken into... and I was at the end of secluded cul-de-sac |
| 16:18.06 | elg | checking if her headlights are aligned? |
| 16:18.14 | sjansen | Heh. We've got a single female in class this week. The students are in the break right now and all the male students are standing in a circle around her, paying rapt attention. |
| 16:18.29 | ^Migs^ | I'll have to alert our neighbors |
| 16:18.32 | ^Migs^ | it's possible she'll come back |
| 16:18.32 | sjansen | s/break/break room/ |
| 16:18.37 | Jayce | sjansen, the fact that you aren't there, says so much |
| 16:18.46 | elg | sjansen: you'll have to tell them all to back off, she's yours |
| 16:18.48 | *** join/#utah Killarny (n=Killarny@xbmc/user/Killarny) |
| 16:19.21 | harleypig | hey, that trailer for war games actually looks fairly decent! |
| 16:19.26 | sjansen | We just had a new guy start today so the gurus where standing around getting to know him. |
| 16:20.01 | Tene | *half* of my class is female. |
| 16:20.11 | sjansen | You have only 2 students? |
| 16:20.17 | Tene | Four. |
| 16:20.30 | elg | harleypig: it almost looks like it refers to the old movie |
| 16:21.00 | harleypig | wonder if Broderick will make a cameo. |
| 16:21.04 | elg | if it does that straight up, even though it looks almost completely unoriginal, it might be ok |
| 16:21.11 | elg | but it's straight to dvd. that doesn't bode well |
| 16:21.32 | harleypig | I can handle unoriginal ... it's how well they do the story that matters. |
| 16:21.49 | harleypig | I dunno ... SG: Ark of Truth was fairly decent. |
| 16:22.02 | elg | SG as in stargate? |
| 16:22.30 | harleypig | yeah |
| 16:22.38 | elg | a movie based on a tv show doesn't necessarily have to go to theaters to be ok |
| 16:22.56 | elg | a sequel to another movie that goes straight to dvd, though, smacks of corner cutting |
| 16:23.00 | harleypig | :] Neither does a straight movie. |
| 16:23.05 | harleypig | err ... |
| 16:23.27 | harleypig | I've seen some pretty good indie films that had to go straight to dvd. |
| 16:23.28 | elg | don't get me wrong. I've enjoyed a number of made for tv movies in my time |
| 16:23.49 | elg | yeah, indie would be another case where it wouldn't count against it |
| 16:23.51 | elg | but this is MGM |
| 16:23.55 | harleypig | oh |
| 16:24.05 | harleypig | well |
| 16:24.26 | elg | which tells me either they are completely out of touch or that they think it's not worth going to theaters |
| 16:24.40 | elg | i'd give that 40/60 odds, respectively |
| 16:25.55 | harleypig | the problem there is that the people who make the decisions in hollywood don't seem to have even a tenuous grasp on what people really want. |
| 16:26.20 | elg | absolutely true |
| 16:26.38 | elg | or, perhaps they do have a grasp on what average people really want, but that's too scary to believe |
| 16:26.45 | Killarny | does anyone here know of a job opportunity for a python/c programmer in the spanish fork area? |
| 16:26.50 | elg | ~curse the bell curve |
| 16:26.51 | ibot | May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, the bell curve ! |
| 16:27.08 | harleypig | Nooooo ... that's a curse on the rest of the world! |
| 16:27.34 | harleypig | elg: that's a very disturbing thought. |
| 16:27.37 | Jayce | Killarny, move networks uses a lot of python, down in springville |
| 16:27.49 | harleypig | and quite possibly closer to the truth than either of is willing to believe. |
| 16:27.53 | Sargun | move networks? |
| 16:28.11 | elg | harleypig: keep the hope alive, man |
| 16:28.17 | harleypig | :D |
| 16:28.26 | Killarny | jayce: ahh, okay I'll check them out |
| 16:30.06 | levi | Sargun: Coding in C++ is nothing whatsoever like coding in the DOS batch language. |
| 16:30.21 | Sargun | C++ is very ugly. |
| 16:30.23 | goozbach | there's another new guru? |
| 16:30.33 | goozbach | cool! |
| 16:30.41 | Sargun | Cool. |
| 16:30.49 | levi | Sargun: Well, it's based on C with a bunch of other stuff tacked on. Of course it's ugly. |
| 16:30.58 | Sargun | levi, The pain of C++ is only like the pain of programming in Batch.. |
| 16:31.01 | *** join/#utah dmdavis (n=dmdavis@67.214.225.122) |
| 16:31.02 | Sargun | C > C++; |
| 16:31.07 | levi | Sargun: You're full of crap. |
| 16:31.22 | Sargun | levi, you like C++ better than C? |
| 16:31.30 | levi | Sargun: I didn't say that. |
| 16:31.33 | Sargun | The issue with C++ is it promotes bad style. |
| 16:32.04 | Sargun | and its really good for organizing/OO, but its ugly for stuff like |
| 16:32.23 | Sargun | actually writing code. |
| 16:32.24 | levi | Where did you come up with all this stuff about C++? |
| 16:32.31 | Sargun | Programming in it. |
| 16:32.41 | Sargun | I started writing a small utilities library in C++ |
| 16:32.47 | Sargun | and I was looking through the libraries |
| 16:33.06 | Sargun | and for what I needed to do I'd need to smash my head against the wall, or go with a 3rd party lib. |
| 16:33.11 | levi | The problem with C++ is that it's too complex, and all of its abstractions are leaky. |
| 16:33.20 | Sargun | Yeah, that's true. |
| 16:33.21 | levi | It's a sharp tool, not for the dim-witted. |
| 16:34.08 | Sargun | The issue with the 3rd party lib was that to make a single useful class you had to inherit from 4 parents, setup all sorts of loopty-loop initializers, etc. |
| 16:35.08 | levi | It's a great fit for a few problem domains (and is really the only game around for thsoe), but otherwise its complexity is a liability. |
| 16:35.29 | levi | Sargun: Stupid 3rd party libraries don't make a language bad. |
| 16:35.58 | Sargun | Personally I still stick with C when doing low level stuff though. |
| 16:36.12 | levi | C has its own problems. |
| 16:36.54 | lakshmi | hey boys! |
| 16:36.59 | levi | C++ inherits all the ones that it doesn't explicitly fix. |
| 16:37.02 | lakshmi | everyone should join #freebucket |
| 16:37.03 | lakshmi | do it |
| 16:37.05 | lakshmi | do it |
| 16:37.09 | lakshmi | do it now! |
| 16:37.09 | Sargun | Yeah.. |
| 16:37.24 | *** join/#utah mrpull (i=xmjake@newshell.xmission.com) |
| 16:37.28 | levi | But it does fix some of them, and they're very important ones. |
| 16:37.31 | Sargun | But, I mean, for easy OO, who uses C++ anymore? |
| 16:37.40 | levi | Who's talking about easy OO? |
| 16:37.46 | Sargun | I'm saying |
| 16:37.49 | Sargun | for easy OO |
| 16:38.23 | levi | C++ has never been 'easy' OO. |
| 16:38.46 | levi | It simply hides a lot of the boilerplate necessary to write OO programs in C. |
| 16:40.06 | ^Migs^ | I like it how everybody says "sorry to bug you" before and after they ask me something |
| 16:40.21 | ^Migs^ | they think my time is infinitely valuable. That's a good position to be in. |
| 16:40.40 | ^Migs^ | here at work, I mean. I have yet to get anyone to say that in here. |
| 16:40.44 | levi | And that is the great boon of C++; it allows you to hide boilerplate without resorting to pure textual substitution via preprocessor macros. And not just OO bolierplate, but with templates, ad-hoc polymorphic boilerplate as well. |
| 16:41.05 | elg | ~bug ^Migs^ |
| 16:41.37 | dmdavis | ^Migs^: maybe they just think you're irritable, and they're afraid of you reaction? I'd probably say "sorry to bug you" to Stuart, just cuz he's curmudgeonly |
| 16:41.38 | levi | You still have to understand what's going on behind the scenes, so you have to understand things as well as if you'd written them in C, but you don't have to actually type all the nonsense boilerplate. |
| 16:41.50 | ^Migs^ | yup |
| 16:41.55 | ^Migs^ | that's exactly what they think |
| 16:42.13 | Sargun | I don't necessarily understand the behind the scenes of C++ though |
| 16:42.19 | Sargun | C, I do understand a bit more. |
| 16:42.27 | ^Migs^ | I'm the grouchy coworker, always hunched over his terminal, working in the dark, never going to lunch with the rest of the gang, avoiding social functions... |
| 16:42.30 | jsmith | ^Migs^: Sorry to bug you, but aren't you suppost to be working? |
| 16:42.37 | jsmith | taunts ^Migs^ again this morning |
| 16:42.41 | ^Migs^ | haha |
| 16:43.04 | levi | Sargun: Well, then you shouldn't be using C++ unless you've got someone who does understand it giving you project-specific coding guidelines. |
| 16:44.44 | Sargun | No, I had existing code in C++ that I needed to interface with. |
| 16:44.47 | *** part/#utah TylerWhitaker (n=Tyler@209.90.94.76) |
| 16:44.54 | Sargun | and I'm doing all the hard work in C |
| 16:45.07 | Sargun | just the interfaces in C++ now. |
| 16:45.34 | levi | Hint: C++ is almost a proper superset of C. If you're writing C, chances are you're also writing C++. |
| 16:47.51 | sjansen | ^Migs^: sorry to but you, but.... *boot to the head* |
| 16:47.59 | Sargun | what's particularly disturbing is I don't think the people who teach C++ understand it. |
| 16:48.13 | Sargun | I mean, I don't think they have a basic understanding of computers |
| 16:48.49 | Sargun | levi, I commented something about mmap to one of my professors, and he was like "I don't exactly know what that is?" "Is that some sort of new-fangled feature in Linux?" |
| 16:48.56 | Killarny | as far as my experience with c++ goes, it's basically C with classes (that's probably an oversimplification) |
| 16:49.16 | Killarny | I use c a lot more though, because it's easy to make cross-platform |
| 16:49.20 | Sargun | Killarny, yeah, but then going all the work with classes. |
| 16:49.32 | sjansen | A gross over simplification. Learning C++ a project for multiple lifetimes. |
| 16:50.14 | Sargun | hehe |
| 16:51.10 | Killarny | I've never actually used C++ for more than simply the class structure .. most of the projects that I've looked deeply into use MFC, which I hate (of course, this was about 5 years ago too, I imagine they use windows forms now) |
| 16:51.26 | fozzmoo | http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2008/05/arduino_nano.html?CMP=OTC-0D6B48984890 |
| 16:51.27 | brac | [MAKE: Blog: Arduino Nano] |
| 16:51.54 | sjansen | Friends don't let friends use C++. |
| 16:52.08 | sjansen | Life is too short to use C++. |
| 16:52.22 | sjansen | Better dead than red... er, a C++ programmer. |
| 16:52.28 | levi | Sargun: mmap is not a standard C thing, it's a POSIX thing. |
| 16:52.47 | sjansen | This is your brain. This is your brain on C++. Any questions? |
| 16:52.49 | fozzmoo | sjansen: What does that say about "Java is C++ done right." ? |
| 16:52.55 | levi | C++ is C with classes and templates. |
| 16:53.02 | Sargun | so, you mean windows users don't get mmap, at all? |
| 16:53.19 | Sargun | that's so... Wrong. |
| 16:53.22 | Killarny | there is probably some win32 equivalent that is much harder to use |
| 16:53.50 | Killarny | api-wise |
| 16:54.02 | levi | Apparently, windows has MapViewOfFile. |
| 16:54.34 | levi | Sargun: So, you have just betrayed the fact that *you* don't know that much about C, either. |
| 16:55.14 | Sargun | hehe. |
| 16:55.23 | Sargun | I've never programmed under Windows though.. |
| 16:55.51 | sjansen | The distinction between C and POSIX is pretty important. |
| 16:55.55 | levi | That's no excuse. You should know where the language libraries end and the OS libraries begin. |
| 16:56.04 | Sargun | I thought some CPUs did mmap |
| 16:56.16 | levi | mmap needs CPU support. |
| 16:56.30 | sjansen | hopes Sargun has just stepped into parody mode |
| 16:56.45 | sjansen | Or are you confusing mmap and DMA? |
| 16:56.51 | Sargun | no. |
| 16:57.03 | levi | sjansen: No such luck. He's in teenager know-everything mode. |
| 16:57.07 | Sargun | DMA = Direct memory acceleration |
| 16:57.11 | Sargun | hehe. |
| 16:57.25 | levi | DMA != Direct Memory |
| 16:57.29 | levi | Er, sorry. |
| 16:57.34 | levi | DMA != Direct Memory Acceleration |
| 16:57.37 | Sargun | stuff write to RAM without CPUs explicit instructions IIRC. |
| 16:57.42 | findlay | dung mountain accretion |
| 16:58.15 | sjansen | An IRC channel full of *nix geeks is a pretty rough place to be a know-it-all anything. |
| 16:58.53 | sjansen | Did I mention that over the weekend I almost perfected my perpetual motion machine? |
| 16:59.42 | Sargun | good job sjansen! At last you can join the ranks of con-artists around the world. |
| 16:59.57 | findlay | I know everything too |
| 17:00.02 | sjansen | ~dict DMA |
| 17:00.03 | levi | DMA = Direct Memory Access |
| 17:00.03 | levi | Yes, DMA is a way for peripheral devices to access memory directly without having to go through the CPU. |
| 17:00.03 | levi | And it has nothing to do with mmap. |
| 17:01.08 | levi | BTW, GNU Smalltalk 3.0b is out. This is significant because it now support Seaside. |
| 17:01.47 | levi | And, all you Squeak GUI haters can rejoice, because you edit GNU Smalltalk with whatever your favorite unix editor is. |
| 17:01.53 | sjansen | http://www.8bitpeoples.com/ <-- This is significant because IT'S FREAKING 8 BIT MUSIC PEOPLE!!!1 |
| 17:03.06 | findlay | levi likes to chastize me when I wax omniscient, but that never really tinctures my smugness in any effectual way |
| 17:03.47 | Sargun | levi, does DMA work for CPU cache also? |
| 17:04.06 | levi | Sargun: Could you rephrase your question in a way that makes sense? |
| 17:06.12 | sjansen | Perhaps he's asking if it's possible for a device to DMA data straight to CPU cache instead of RAM? |
| 17:06.30 | fozzmoo | I would think a chipset would handle that. |
| 17:06.47 | fozzmoo | Determining if data is in cache or not. |
| 17:06.50 | Sargun | Can you use (USB) DMA to write/read data straight to/from CPU cache? |
| 17:07.09 | Sargun | or is that a per-chipset thing |
| 17:08.13 | levi | Sargun: That would be a per-chipset thing. Different chipsets have different amounts of support for interaction between DMA and cache. My guess is that the most support you'll find is automatic invalidation of cache lines when they're DMAd. |
| 17:09.21 | levi | Sargun: It's common in embedded systems that you have to manually disable caching in a DMA region or explicitly invalidate the cache before reading. |
| 17:09.22 | Sargun | hm, I wonder if there are any chipsets that have the problem that when data is updated in the main system RAM via DMA, that they don't properly invalidate the cache. |
| 17:10.10 | levi | In short, yes. But x86 systems generally handle the cache invalidation themselves, IIRC. |
| 17:11.49 | unum | hmmm I'm getting a little over 1MB/s from kernel.org |
| 17:11.54 | unum | I wonder if that's it's max |
| 17:12.11 | unum | xmission no longer hosts a mirror for fedora |
| 17:12.20 | unum | I was getting crazy speeds when they did |
| 17:12.28 | findlay | -chat DMA |
| 17:12.28 | brac | DMA had |
| 17:12.49 | fozzmoo | XM does host a fedora mirror. |
| 17:12.53 | fozzmoo | They didn't for a while. |
| 17:13.00 | fozzmoo | Iodynamics donated some hardware to get it back. |
| 17:13.08 | unum | sweet |
| 17:13.09 | fozzmoo | but XM did a lousy job of keeping the stuff mounted. |
| 17:13.13 | fozzmoo | so we pulled it. |
| 17:13.23 | fozzmoo | But since then, XM has gotten more disk space. |
| 17:13.28 | unum | I'll have to change my repository back |
| 17:13.29 | fozzmoo | and they resurrected it on their own hardware. |
| 17:13.37 | fozzmoo | http://mirror.xmission.com/fedora/ |
| 17:13.44 | unum | wish I had know that before I started this downlead |
| 17:13.48 | fozzmoo | heh. |
| 17:13.48 | unum | it's 1.4gb |
| 17:14.04 | unum | and I'm only getting a little over 1MB/s for kernel.rog |
| 17:14.13 | fozzmoo | I was happy to see they carry epel as well. |
| 17:14.15 | findlay | unum: wget -c FTW |
| 17:15.18 | unum | findlay: ? |
| 17:15.19 | findlay | what're you complaining about? That's < 1434 s |
| 17:15.36 | fozzmoo | ;-) |
| 17:15.56 | findlay | or ~ 23 minutes |
| 17:16.07 | elg | says findlay who downloads at 14GB/s |
| 17:16.29 | findlay | elg: s/B/b/ |
| 17:16.54 | elg | whatever. i just picked a random too-large number |
| 17:16.55 | findlay | unum: wget -c will continue downloading a file where it left off, even if from a different server |
| 17:17.21 | findlay | has used it often |
| 17:17.58 | unum | aah |
| 17:18.10 | elg | maybe he's downloading it with firefox which helpfully deletes partial downloads |
| 17:18.17 | findlay | hahaha |
| 17:18.21 | elg | in which case he'd want to find the .part file and hardlink it first |
| 17:18.22 | unum | I'm dowloading them with yum upgrade |
| 17:18.34 | elg | ah well |
| 17:18.38 | elg | in that case you're screwed ;-) |
| 17:18.39 | unum | I restarted anyways |
| 17:18.40 | findlay | unum: :( |
| 17:18.55 | unum | now I'll probably have to wait 20 minutes for the dependency check to run again |
| 17:19.18 | elg | but it'll download in 3 minutes! |
| 17:19.36 | unum | probably :) |
| 17:20.19 | findlay | gentoo uses wget, actually $DOWNLOADER, underneath, and will automatically resume files for you :) |
| 17:20.42 | elg | aptitude automatically resumes too. |
| 17:21.09 | findlay | sigh, another yum disappointment then |
| 17:21.29 | fozzmoo | Now, if aptitude automagically submitted resumes to online job sites, that'd be cool. |
| 17:21.50 | findlay | fozzmoo: I'm sure there's a CPAN module for that |
| 17:21.58 | elg | it does, depending on the packages you have installed |
| 17:22.06 | elg | so think twice before installing mono |
| 17:22.09 | elg | and wine |
| 17:22.31 | fozzmoo | ;-) |
| 17:24.17 | unum | there we go > 4MB/s |
| 17:25.36 | unum | darn that last file was just over 3MB/s |
| 17:25.37 | unum | it slowed down |
| 17:28.01 | findlay | that's because the FBI started tracking your downloads |
| 17:28.39 | unum | that'd explain it |
| 17:28.46 | findlay | you're clogging the tubes without the MPAA's permission |
| 17:28.53 | unum | I wonder where the tracking point would be.... |
| 17:29.23 | unum | not sure how his fiber optic link to xmission works since utopia is not hooked up in salt lake |
| 17:30.02 | findlay | utopia is only a 'last mile' networking, doing FTTP |
| 17:30.31 | findlay | xmission, I'm sure has several fiber uplinks and downlinks to other NOC's |
| 17:30.40 | unum | that's true |
| 17:31.37 | unum | XMission is our isp. so where do we connect to them at |
| 17:31.39 | findlay | iProvo on the other hand just became the new toy of broad waive :) |
| 17:31.40 | unum | and who routes that |
| 17:33.06 | elg | traceroute ftw |
| 17:33.42 | fozzmoo | mtr FTW! |
| 17:35.40 | unum | lo1.erx1.slc.xmission.net 0.0% 3.2 10.1 2.8 116.0 23.4 |
| 17:35.45 | unum | is the second hop |
| 17:35.57 | unum | the first hop after our fortinet router |
| 17:36.13 | unum | man how long is this transaction test going to run for |
| 17:38.20 | unum | test has succeded |
| 17:38.49 | unum | oh now it's actually running the transaction.... |
| 17:38.56 | Sargun | what? |
| 17:39.04 | findlay | ~what |
| 17:39.10 | unum | it's a stage in yum update |
| 17:39.15 | unum | now idea what it means |
| 17:39.23 | unum | but it takes for ever |
| 17:41.17 | Tene | mtr++ |
| 17:42.33 | findlay | ~mtr Tene |
| 17:42.38 | findlay | ~findlay Tene |
| 17:42.39 | ibot | ACTION recreationally nmaps Tene with abandon |
| 17:42.47 | Tene | ~findlay fozzmoo's house |
| 17:42.48 | ibot | ACTION recreationally nmaps fozzmoo's house with abandon |
| 17:43.20 | fozzmoo | holds the windows shut |
| 17:44.21 | sjansen | Some safety experts have suggested requiring a warning sound, like simulated engine noise, when hybrids are in pure electric mode. I hereby claim dibs on custom engine tones (think ring tones for cars). |
| 17:44.54 | Tene | ... |
| 17:45.38 | findlay | hahahahaha |
| 17:46.25 | Tene | ~zap sjansen |
| 17:46.25 | ibot | ACTION takes out a cattle prod and gives sjansen a good jolt. |
| 17:46.47 | findlay | imagines sjansen putting some Pink Floyd in for his engine tones |
| 17:47.45 | sjansen | No, that's fozzmoo. My car's going to sound like that swishing sound when you see KIT's sweeping light in Knight Rider. |
| 17:48.08 | Tene | sjansen: you'd buy a hybrid? |
| 17:48.27 | fozzmoo | wants one of those Indian air-powered cars. |
| 17:49.08 | fozzmoo | Indian flatulence, the last renewable energy source. |
| 17:50.23 | sjansen | I want to run my Camry into the ground, but if gas keeps going up I might change my mind. |
| 17:51.55 | unum | I started biking to work(finally) |
| 17:52.15 | Tene | Yeah, well my car uses other cars for fuel. |
| 17:54.21 | sinuhe | sjansen: I'm presented with the same dilemma. I'm considering selling my car while it still has any value, as I wonder if petrol driven cars aren't close to being a thing of the past. |
| 17:55.09 | fozzmoo | wishes we could just use all the oil under our feet. |
| 17:55.43 | fozzmoo | The US is capable of being perfectly self-sufficient as far as energy is concerned. |
| 17:56.19 | unum | I'd like to see your source for that |
| 17:56.23 | Tene | fozzmoo: that's too expensive, though!!!!! |
| 17:56.30 | findlay | ~expense Tene |
| 17:56.31 | unum | nm tene made my point |
| 17:56.41 | fozzmoo | slave labor? |
| 17:56.41 | unum | that's what I meant to ask |
| 17:56.49 | unum | how much would it cost to extract that oil |
| 17:56.57 | Tene | unless we get the illegal immigrants to do it for us... |
| 17:57.04 | fozzmoo | Tene: You're a genius! |
| 17:57.16 | fozzmoo | It's slave labor under a different name! |
| 17:57.26 | Tene | Or perhaps we can allow immigrants naturalization status as long as they bring in twice their weight in oil. |
| 17:57.29 | fozzmoo | Feed them horchada and they will come. |
| 17:57.32 | unum | we can eliminate the minium wage and then have them do it legally |
| 17:57.39 | unum | and then take all of their pay in taxes |
| 17:57.55 | fozzmoo | Is anyone making minimum wage anymore? min wage is a farce. |
| 17:58.00 | unum | actually it would be interesting to see what the tax rates are with social security factored in |
| 17:58.09 | Tene | fozzmoo: I have a few friends who do |
| 17:58.18 | fozzmoo | Tene: heh. |
| 17:58.20 | *** join/#utah nick125_eee (n=nick@pdpc/supporter/student/nick125) |
| 17:58.21 | fozzmoo | You. Friends. |
| 17:58.25 | sjansen | fozzmoo: You honestly believe that if US oil could compete we wouldn't pump it? |
| 17:58.25 | unum | I always see the federal income taxs statitics, they never include social security taxes(which are regressive) |
| 17:58.27 | fozzmoo | ;-) |
| 17:58.56 | Tene | fozzmoo: well, housemates. |
| 17:58.59 | fozzmoo | sjansen: I know the oil companies in the US would love to go to NWAR... |
| 17:59.09 | unum | most of the employees of my company make state minium wage |
| 17:59.19 | unum | which in those states is around $9/hour |
| 17:59.26 | fozzmoo | and that whole coal to oil thing is economically feasible if oil is above $30/barrel... |
| 17:59.33 | fozzmoo | but environmental red tape is holding it up. |
| 17:59.33 | unum | what do fast food places pay? |
| 17:59.43 | fozzmoo | Depends on where. |
| 17:59.46 | fozzmoo | park City? $12 and up. |
| 17:59.51 | unum | I don't think we have that much oil |
| 17:59.57 | unum | s/oil/coal |
| 18:00.01 | fozzmoo | unum: I think you'd be surprised. |
| 18:00.12 | unum | fozzmoo: I think you would be |
| 18:00.20 | fozzmoo | North America really is "the promised land" when it comes to natural resources. |
| 18:00.25 | Tene | unum: I'm made of coal. No, you can't extract oil from me. |
| 18:00.30 | fozzmoo | heh. |
| 18:01.09 | fozzmoo | When things get bad enough, we'll smack the liberals down and "take care of things" ourselves. :) |
| 18:01.21 | sjansen | I think it's fair to factor environmental impact into price. A total ban probably isn't called for, but high rates to offset the cost of limiting damage is appropriate. |
| 18:01.23 | fozzmoo | The question is... when is that? |
| 18:01.54 | unum | when people start dying? like they do in logan. |
| 18:02.12 | fozzmoo | People die in Logan?! |
| 18:02.16 | unum | it's calculated that 2 people die a year in cache valley who would have lived if they had lived else where |
| 18:02.24 | unum | because of the bad air |
| 18:02.24 | Tene | I died in logan last week. |
| 18:02.32 | fozzmoo | Wait a minute, isn't the avg life expectancy in Logan higher than in other areas of Utah. |
| 18:02.38 | fozzmoo | They had a research project at USU about that... |
| 18:02.49 | fozzmoo | how there were all these old guys in Logan that were outliving everyone else. |
| 18:03.03 | fozzmoo | Maybe the ground-level ozone is the answer! |
| 18:03.07 | sjansen | If oil prices don't start coming down, it'll be economical to open pit mine the oil sands of canada with front loaders. That's a giant resource, but not nearly as easy as sticking a straw in the ground and sucking out light, sweet crude. |
| 18:03.32 | fozzmoo | reminisces the Beverly Hillbillies. |
| 18:03.39 | fozzmoo | All you needed was a shotgun. |
| 18:03.50 | fozzmoo | Bang! glug glug glug. |
| 18:05.16 | *** join/#utah Sargun (n=Sargun@atarack/staff/sargun) |
| 18:05.19 | sinuhe | sjansen: My understanding is that we're at peak capacity now, and that if we don't drill Canada, we're looking at $5 a gallon ($200-300 a barrel) in the next couple years. |
| 18:05.46 | fozzmoo | I was surprised to find out that Canada is actually our #1 supplier of crude. |
| 18:05.52 | fozzmoo | Followed by Mexico |
| 18:05.58 | Sargun | Please tell me what was the point in in invading Iraq again? |
| 18:05.58 | fozzmoo | And then Saudi Arabia |
| 18:06.11 | fozzmoo | Sargun: Ridding the world of the evil Saddam Hussein. |
| 18:06.12 | Tene | Sargun: just for the oil, obviously. |
| 18:06.34 | sjansen | We'll only know when he hit peak in retrospect. Most of the prediction of impending doom are based on no further oil reserve discoveries. For 30 years people have been predicting doom and yet we keep finding oil. |
| 18:06.35 | fozzmoo | I think it was just to put Iran in a vice. |
| 18:06.35 | unum | because Hussein is so much more evil than the saudis |
| 18:06.51 | fozzmoo | sjansen: As long as dinosaurs keep dying, we'll be fine. |
| 18:06.52 | Sargun | fozzmoo, I'm hoping you aren't serious |
| 18:07.04 | sjansen | We're running out of the cheapest places to drill, but technology is making once unaffordable options possible at the same time. |
| 18:07.08 | fozzmoo | Sargun: I'm not a State Department guy, but I am a thinker. :) |
| 18:08.03 | fozzmoo | Bush knows biblical prophecy says Gog and Magog will attack Israel. |
| 18:08.36 | findlay | who names their kids Gog? |
| 18:08.39 | fozzmoo | And, wouldn't you know it, for the first time in human history, Iran and Russia are military allies. |
| 18:09.00 | sjansen | Because we drove them to it. |
| 18:09.05 | fozzmoo | findlay: I think whoever said that was just coughing to make up for the fact they didn't really know what they are talking about. |
| 18:09.38 | fozzmoo | "And then, *cough* and Ma*cough* will attack Zion! Thank you! Thank you! You guys have been great. I'll be here next week!" |
| 18:10.49 | Sargun | ... |
| 18:11.05 | Sargun | kills fozzmoo |
| 18:11.10 | fozzmoo | sjansen: You mean, we drove them our SUVs to it. :) |
| 18:12.18 | sjansen | I mean by playing a childish game of "I'm not talking to you" we reduced their options. |
| 18:13.16 | sjansen | Might be a fine strategy in elementary school, but hardly appropriate to world politics. Especially when punctuated by labeling one's enemies "the axis of evil". |
| 18:14.48 | levi | Oh boy, politics! |
| 18:14.56 | levi | unum: How far is your bike commute? |
| 18:15.20 | sjansen | At the start of the Bush administration, the youth of Iran were pretty pro-USA. (And Iran has a low enough median age to make the govt. worry.) Instead of encouraging that through stern but open conversation, we've helped the stoke nationalism. |
| 18:15.27 | levi | I'm anxious for the Redwood Rd. contruction to finish so I'll have a bike lane most of the way to work. |
| 18:15.52 | levi | At the moment, Redwood to the south of Camp Williams is pretty dangerous for cyclists. |
| 18:16.57 | levi | sjansen: Funny how one of his campaign promises was that he was going to win over the Middle East with his great foriegn policy, so they'd lower oil prices for us. |
| 18:21.04 | fozzmoo | Yeah. Funny they didn't warm up so much to the idea of freedom and democracy so much. Dang it. |
| 18:21.28 | fozzmoo | Bush was naive, I guess. |
| 18:28.15 | elg | levi: where are you again? |
| 18:28.26 | levi | elg: Lehi |
| 18:28.46 | elg | you probably pass pretty close to my parents' house on your way |
| 18:29.02 | levi | Where is it? |
| 18:30.03 | elg | http://tinyurl.com/6o8zqm |
| 18:31.55 | levi | We almost bought a house right near there. |
| 18:32.52 | Sargun | biomedical warfare? |
| 18:33.00 | Sargun | At least mheath isn't in Iraq. |
| 18:34.24 | sjansen | Funny how forcing Democracy on a country doesn't always work out.... In fact, is there any example where we invaded a country that hand't attacked us as succeeded in creating a democracy? |
| 18:35.52 | levi | People don't like having *anything* thrust upon them, whether it's good for them or not. |
| 18:35.54 | sjansen | It was a convincing argument, but as with so many things in the Bush administration, it sounded great until faced with reality. |
| 18:36.10 | sjansen | Heckuva a job Bushy. |
| 18:38.07 | Sargun | what's utah's ratio |
| 18:38.11 | *** join/#utah pashdown (i=pashdown@sine.xmission.com) |
| 18:38.19 | elg | 5 cows to every 6 chickens |
| 18:38.30 | elg | what's your ratio? |
| 18:38.46 | levi | No, no, it's 12 llamas to every alpaca. |
| 18:39.56 | elg | ¿como se llama? |
| 18:42.57 | unum | I think a major problem is how we've gone about it as well |
| 18:43.01 | ^Migs^ | how would I set up an automatic email cron job in Linux? |
| 18:43.10 | ^Migs^ | I have a file I need to email to someone every night |
| 18:43.17 | RyanE | with vi. :) |
| 18:43.17 | unum | we're not just changing their form of government but forcing all sort of other things on them |
| 18:43.24 | ^Migs^ | har har |
| 18:43.26 | unum | just like we did in the phillipines |
| 18:43.34 | levi | unum: So, how far do you ride your bike to work? |
| 18:43.40 | unum | levi: only two miles |
| 18:43.45 | RyanE | actually, with ($EDITOR) |
| 18:43.50 | unum | I live really close |
| 18:44.15 | levi | unum: Nice. I'm about 20 miles from my workplace, so bike commuting would be a serious time investment. |
| 18:44.38 | Sargun | uhh |
| 18:44.57 | unum | our it manager is thinking about biking in |
| 18:44.57 | Sargun | that'd be a while. |
| 18:45.03 | Sargun | uphill both ways? |
| 18:45.09 | unum | he'd take the jordon river trail for about 5 miles |
| 18:45.20 | elg | ^Migs^: echo foo | mail you@example.com |
| 18:45.22 | unum | 90th to 54th |
| 18:45.26 | elg | assuming your MTA is set up properly |
| 18:45.30 | unum | I think he'd only be about 10 miles |
| 18:45.33 | elg | crontab -e |
| 18:45.39 | elg | @daily echo foo | mail you@example.com |
| 18:46.33 | levi | The Jordan River trail is pretty slow. I tried it a couple of times when I lived and worked at different locations. |
| 18:46.55 | RyanE | you might want to add mail -s "Subject" you@example.com |
| 18:47.22 | elg | you might want to do a lot of things. the manpages will inform you |
| 18:47.35 | levi | That particular commute was about 10 miles, too. |
| 18:47.52 | RyanE | yeah, I just figured that would probably be the most common 'thing'... |
| 18:49.01 | levi | unum: 10 miles is definitely doable, but still a significant time investment, and it can be pretty miserable with the wrong weather. |
| 18:50.14 | unum | if I was going north-south I'd use trax |
| 18:50.30 | unum | right now it takes me 10 minutes to drive or 20 minutes to bike |
| 18:50.39 | unum | so time is much less a factor for me |
| 18:51.04 | ^Migs^ | thanks that worked, guys |
| 18:51.06 | unum | only 20 minutes out of my day |
| 18:51.09 | unum | I bike pretty slow |
| 18:51.13 | unum | I'm way out of shape |
| 18:51.20 | levi | Yeah, 2 miles is a pretty easy bike ride. |
| 18:51.56 | levi | 10 flat miles on a decent bike isn't bad, either. |
| 18:52.04 | levi | (as long as there's no headwind) |
| 18:53.18 | unum | my ride is relatively flat |
| 18:55.24 | levi | My ride in to work has a pretty big hump in the middle if I take Redwood, and even more hills if I take other routes. |
| 18:58.17 | unum | if I took 53rd I'd have a big hill by the costco |
| 18:58.28 | unum | but by taking vine I only have mild hills |
| 18:58.51 | levi | Hills are good for you, though. :) |
| 18:58.55 | unum | :) |
| 18:59.22 | findlay | runs up hills |
| 18:59.34 | unum | my brother-in-law told me that he a commute that was downhill on the way there and up hill on the way back |
| 18:59.48 | unum | it worked out well. he would get to work and not be sweaty |
| 18:59.53 | levi | Sounds brutal in the summer, though. |
| 19:00.01 | elg | http://www.rousette.org.uk/blog/archives/bike-rage/ |
| 19:00.04 | unum | then he could ride back and get his work out |
| 19:00.12 | rsimpkins | Okay UTOSF people. Is there a website advertising the conference? |
| 19:00.14 | elg | i think we need more animosity here |
| 19:00.16 | elg | ~mock bikers |
| 19:00.17 | ibot | ACTION pulls bikers's pants down and shows the world bikers's pink spotted underwear |
| 19:00.18 | *** join/#utah Lone_Wanderer (n=chatzill@206.61.134.77) |
| 19:00.24 | brac | judo chops Lone_Wanderer |
| 19:00.29 | elg | wow, latex shorts and spotted underwear! |
| 19:00.32 | Lone_Wanderer | Nice, a double lart. |
| 19:00.34 | rsimpkins | I am trying to get people interested, and the site says nothing at all about a conference that would be usable by soemone who doesn't know about it. |
| 19:00.59 | Lone_Wanderer | ~seen levi |
| 19:01.02 | ibot | levi is currently on #utah. Has said a total of 59 messages. Is idling for 1m 9s, last said: 'Sounds brutal in the summer, though.'. |
| 19:01.10 | findlay | rsimpkins: "we don't need their kind here" |
| 19:01.14 | findlay | :) |
| 19:01.40 | rsimpkins | findlay: I think we should move the conference to your house. |
| 19:01.42 | levi | ~seen Lone_Wanderer |
| 19:01.42 | ibot | lone_wanderer is currently on #utah (1m 1s) #uphpu (1m 1s). Has said a total of 3 messages. Is idling for 11s, last said: 'Just got off CQ recovery. I have an hour to get ready for class and instead of using it wisely I'm online chatting :D'. |
| 19:01.48 | findlay | rsimpkins: sure! |
| 19:01.59 | findlay | it'll be a street party |
| 19:02.01 | Lone_Wanderer | levi, do you know of any Lisp-related mailing lists that are newbie-friendly? |
| 19:02.06 | elg | that video is pretty cool, but I for one would be slightly afraid |
| 19:02.12 | levi | elg: Latex shorts? Ew. Maybe you mean Lycra? :) |
| 19:02.18 | *** join/#utah Cyberkruz (i=3f566be2@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-467850c045b63f2d) |
| 19:02.24 | elg | uh, yeah, that stuff ;-) |
| 19:02.30 | findlay | rsimpkins: I'd complain in #utos |
| 19:02.43 | elg | spandex actually is the word I was supposed to be thinking, but yeah lycra |
| 19:03.03 | levi | Lone_Wanderer: Well, there was the Lisp Gardeneres list, but it's not terribly active. I'm sure some people would respond if you asked questions there, though. |
| 19:03.25 | findlay | elg: is lycra a latex-like substance? |
| 19:03.33 | Lone_Wanderer | will try it. Is comp.lang.lisp worth anything? I'm not really sure how to view or use newsgroups. |
| 19:03.37 | elg | lycra is i think the generic name for spandex |
| 19:04.38 | levi | It's the other way around, actually. |
| 19:04.56 | levi | Spandex is generic, Lycra is a brand name. |
| 19:05.25 | utahcon | some really odd things are discussed in here. |
| 19:05.49 | elg | speaking of which I keep hoping my swim suit will wear out, or I'll lose enough weight to justify getting a pair of "jammers" |
| 19:05.54 | Lone_Wanderer | You haven't seen much yet utahcon ;) |
| 19:06.00 | Lone_Wanderer | what are jammers? |
| 19:06.08 | elg | http://www.swimoutlet.com/Swim_Jammers_s/213.htm |
| 19:06.16 | brac | [Men's Swimwear: Swim Jammers: SwimOutlet.com - The Web's Most Popular Swim Shop] |
| 19:06.17 | elg | stupid name for thigh-length speedos |
| 19:06.27 | Lone_Wanderer | ahh |
| 19:06.40 | Lone_Wanderer | An attempt to introduce speedos into American mainstream. |
| 19:06.46 | Lone_Wanderer | Insidious! |
| 19:06.51 | elg | well, actually no |
| 19:07.02 | levi | Like cycling shorts, but without the pad? |
| 19:07.06 | elg | it's just that the lycra is more slippery in the water than skin |
| 19:07.11 | elg | right |
| 19:07.18 | findlay | interesting |
| 19:07.19 | elg | especially skin with hair |
| 19:07.35 | elg | and the real serious swimmers tend to be wearing those body suits now |
| 19:07.38 | unum | I don't want to know how come you know any of that. |
| 19:07.39 | unum | .. |
| 19:07.50 | *** join/#utah D^niel (n=D^niel__@189-47-200-219.dsl.telesp.net.br) |
| 19:07.56 | levi | I wear cycling shorts while taking long bike rides. |
| 19:07.56 | findlay | pretty simple |
| 19:08.03 | levi | They're nice. |
| 19:08.06 | findlay | water has good adhesion |
| 19:08.08 | elg | because I'm a swimmer |
| 19:08.10 | Sargun | that's enjoyable. |
| 19:08.34 | findlay | even air will adhere |
| 19:08.35 | unum | I was reading the conversation bottom to top |
| 19:08.42 | unum | and didn't realize it was a bout swim suits... |
| 19:08.52 | Lone_Wanderer | ohhh |
| 19:09.02 | findlay | that's why you get vorticies spinninf off from large aircraft wings |
| 19:09.26 | Lone_Wanderer | levi, do you have a second to help me out with something lisp-related? |
| 19:09.30 | Lone_Wanderer | asks to ask. |
| 19:09.56 | levi | If I was embarassed about wearing skin-tight shorts, I'd get baggy bike shorts with the same chamois pad in them. |
| 19:10.00 | levi | Lone_Wanderer: Sure. |
| 19:10.32 | findlay | panics and changes his screen terminal to avoid the possibility of seeing Lone_Wanderer post fearful lisp code |
| 19:10.55 | Lone_Wanderer | I've got a macro which, under certain circumstances, expands into a call to itself. Is there any way to tell whether it's being called by itself or not? |
| 19:11.04 | Lone_Wanderer | I may be going about this the entirely wrong way, I'm not sure. |
| 19:11.07 | findlay | levi: what's the point of wearing a pad if the seat is already padded? |
| 19:11.37 | levi | findlay: The pad works better when it's in your shorts instead of on the seat. |
| 19:11.48 | findlay | that's logical |
| 19:12.46 | elg | legskin: http://www.speedousa.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/products.detail/categoryID/e74a446e-3eef-45b2-b202-9efd9d712989/productID/57ce3dfd-5227-4673-a835-f4fd6175db34/ |
| 19:13.03 | levi | findlay: It's also designed to prevent chafing with the seat. |
| 19:14.00 | Lone_Wanderer | It's part of a toy unit testing framework, and I want to maintain a list of all the tests that failed. I'm doing it now by adding failed tests to *failed-tests* so I don't have to worry about passing it up and down the call stack. But this has the disadvantage of keeping the list of failed calls around after they should go away. |
| 19:14.26 | elg | there's one of the full-body ones http://www.speedo.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=822&Itemid=158&lc=en&cc=global=en |
| 19:14.30 | brac | [Speedo - Press Resources] |
| 19:14.32 | *** part/#utah Cyberkruz (i=3f566be2@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-467850c045b63f2d) |
| 19:14.47 | Lone_Wanderer | So I thought "I know I'll just reset *failed-calls* in the deftest macro... oh wait, sometimes a deftest-created function will call itself, thereby clobbering earlier failed tests... hmm" |
| 19:15.19 | levi | Lone_Wanderer: I don't really have an answer to your questions, sorry. |
| 19:15.23 | Lone_Wanderer | mmkay |
| 19:15.47 | levi | I'd try comp.lang.lisp or Lisp Gardeners. |
| 19:16.41 | Lone_Wanderer | tries them both, starting with the gardeners. |
| 19:18.11 | levi | Here's an interesting article about bicycling shorts: http://www.madehow.com/Volume-1/Bicycle-Shorts.html |
| 19:18.15 | brac | [How bicycle shorts is made - Background, Raw materials, Design, The manufacturing process of bicycle shorts, Quality control] |
| 19:20.43 | *** join/#utah nick125_eee (n=nick@pdpc/supporter/student/nick125) |
| 19:22.02 | levi | findlay: Contrary to what you might think, too much padding on a bike seat can be as bad as too little. Too much padding spreads the pressure from your 'sit bones' to the soft tissue surrounding them, which gets uncomfortable after a while. |
| 19:23.05 | findlay | interesting |
| 19:23.36 | findlay | guess that's why male and female saddles are structurally different |
| 19:23.39 | levi | A super-plush seat might be nice for short, occasional rides. But not for long, regular rides. |
| 19:24.15 | Lone_Wanderer | does not say here what he would if someone had said that in the barracks >.> |
| 19:24.16 | levi | Yeah. Even among males and females, it's important to try multiple saddles so you can find one that fits your bone structure properly. |
| 19:26.15 | findlay | levi: but still you don't typically, from the context of evolution, sit on the inner bones, but on the ischium processes |
| 19:26.41 | findlay | and the surrounding 'soft tissue' |
| 19:28.32 | findlay | so it's kind of remarkable that it works anyway |
| 19:28.40 | levi | You mean the 'ischial tuberosites'? |
| 19:28.47 | findlay | yeah |
| 19:29.01 | levi | Yeah, those are the 'sit bones' I was referring to. |
| 19:29.08 | findlay | hm |
| 19:33.13 | levi | http://www.jimlangley.net/crank/bicycleseats.html |
| 19:33.14 | brac | [Bicycle Seats Explained | Bike Saddles] |
| 19:35.46 | unum | levi: do you wear biking clothes to work and then change when you get there? |
| 19:38.26 | levi | unum: Yes. I also shower at work, when there's a shower available. |
| 19:39.18 | unum | I don't think I could use the shower here.... |
| 19:39.44 | unum | my coworkers have complained about my stench yet.... |
| 19:40.22 | levi | When there wasn't a shower available, I'd use a washcloth and towel in one of the stalls to clean up. |
| 19:45.45 | *** join/#utah eggyknap (n=eggyknap@ip67-88-113-150.z113-88-67.customer.algx.net) |
| 19:46.42 | fozzmoo | KFC wipes, people! |
| 19:47.28 | elg | ~wipe fozzmoo |
| 19:47.29 | ibot | # dd if=/dev/zero of=fozzmoo |
| 19:54.02 | maquis | unum: they have, or they haven't? |
| 20:00.21 | unum | oops, thanks that was supposed to be haven't |
| 20:01.22 | levi | It's not so much smell that's a problem for me, but the icky salt-encrusted feeling I get. |
| 20:02.55 | findlay | maquis: thinking about complaining? |
| 20:08.00 | maquis | findlay: sure, why not? |
| 20:08.02 | maquis | :) |
| 20:08.07 | unum | I don't sweat much |
| 20:10.12 | maquis | sure... that's what they all say |
| 20:11.26 | unum | most of my sweeting occurs if I come inside with out cooling down |
| 20:28.16 | elg | funny, most of my sweating occurs from going outside where it's blazing hot |
| 20:29.32 | sjansen | Ah, but if you sweat perfectly matched to the rate of evaporation you wouldn't notice your sweat. |
| 20:30.01 | elg | if only i were naked |
| 20:30.03 | maquis | sjansen: but you'd end up all salty |
| 20:30.23 | sjansen | maquis: When was the last time you licked yourself? |
| 20:30.41 | sjansen | Until someone licks you, you might not notice the salt. |
| 20:30.54 | maquis | sjansen: it feels weird |
| 20:31.04 | findlay | I don't eat salt anymore, therefore I'm not salty |
| 20:31.52 | sjansen | Yes, but if you're lost deep in thought, overwhelmed by the beauty of live on a hot day, you might not notice the weird feeling. |
| 20:33.20 | sjansen | Or maybe you always feel weird because your brain never learned to process the sensory overload constantly assaulting it. |
| 20:33.33 | sinuhe | findlay: If you stopped eating salt you would die. |
| 20:33.37 | elg | or maybe you feel weird because you are |
| 20:33.44 | sjansen | Or, or, or.... It could happen! |
| 20:34.09 | findlay | sinuhe: that's malicious propaganda from Big Salt |
| 20:34.23 | findlay | the major salt lobbies want us to eat _more_ salt |
| 20:35.10 | unum | according to marco polo the chinese made salt based coins |
| 20:35.26 | findlay | in fact I've heard they're lobbying congress to mandate the dispensation of salt cubes much like sugar cubes at elementary school cafeterias or risk their federal funding |
| 20:35.48 | unum | in the mountanous areas they'd exchange for the coins and then eat them |
| 20:35.50 | findlay | eats a salt cubes |
| 20:35.54 | findlay | s/s// |
| 21:06.54 | ^Migs^ | why the crap is it so hard to get a script to automatically generate web site thumbnails? |
| 21:06.58 | Jayce | hrm, according to amazon, it's taken 4 days to ship my package from their facility in Denver, to arrive in Denver, so it can ship to here |
| 21:07.56 | ^Migs^ | did it go all over the U.S.? |
| 21:08.13 | ^Migs^ | I had a package to do that once |
| 21:08.21 | ^Migs^ | went from Salt Lake, to San Francisco, to Texas, to Ogden |
| 21:08.29 | ^Migs^ | or something like tht |
| 21:08.30 | ^Migs^ | *that |
| 21:11.28 | ^Migs^ | I keep getting these dumb "cannot open display" errors with gnome-web-photo |
| 21:11.39 | ^Migs^ | I'm not really asking for help. Just venting. |
| 21:14.41 | sjansen | Jayce: Yeah, my shipment from Fernley, NV to here was estimated as 5 days. Took 1. I think they like to under promise and over deliver. |
| 21:15.44 | sjansen | ^Migs^: Because it's so easy to role your own using shell scripting? |
| 21:15.46 | findlay | Fernley! |
| 21:15.52 | Jayce | actually, they will commonly hold it until they have to, to not lower the percieved need for upgraded shipping |
| 21:15.55 | findlay | spent an afternoon in Fernley |
| 21:16.05 | findlay | after wrecking on I-80 |
| 21:16.25 | ^Migs^ | I'm not finding it very easy, but I'm a noob |
| 21:18.17 | ^Migs^ | I think I'm just not sending up xvfs right |
| 21:18.19 | ^Migs^ | *setting |
| 21:18.26 | ^Migs^ | meh, I'll figure this out later |
| 21:26.45 | *** join/#utah Cyberkruz (i=3f566be2@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-467850c045b63f2d) |
| 21:34.54 | elg | ^Migs^: I can sell you the shell incantations I use on foton.fugal.net |
| 21:36.07 | elg | for a few genuinely funny lolcat pictures |
| 21:38.24 | elg | convert -thumbnail WxH |
| 21:39.31 | maquis | Jayce: what's your problem? |
| 21:39.35 | maquis | and what happened to the ^? |
| 21:39.53 | Jayce | ahh, it's my laptop, was set to not collide first :) |
| 21:40.15 | Jayce | anyways, my current order has taken four days to go from Denver to Denver :) |
| 21:40.29 | maquis | Jayce: after shipping? |
| 21:41.07 | maquis | and... is amazon the seller? |
| 21:41.19 | Jayce | yeah, left denver warehouse on the 15th, arrived at the shipping co location today |
| 21:41.20 | Jayce | yeah |
| 21:41.59 | maquis | odd.. |
| 21:42.10 | maquis | Jayce: what was the item (if you don't mind telling me)? |
| 21:42.16 | Jayce | 3 books |
| 21:42.26 | maquis | weird |
| 21:42.30 | Heartsbane | blames whoever set the border gateway protocol for shipping books. |
| 21:42.58 | Jayce | not the first time I've had it happen here.. last few 'free shipping' items have had issues... last one took almost two weeks |
| 21:43.10 | maquis | weird |
| 21:43.13 | maquis | and it was in-stock? |
| 21:43.26 | *** join/#utah Sargun (n=Sargun@atarack/staff/sargun) |
| 21:43.27 | sjansen | Whoa. Jayce without his ^ is like harleypig without his beard. |
| 21:43.40 | Heartsbane | maquis: just admit you did it |
| 21:44.12 | maquis | lol |
| 21:44.58 | Heartsbane | that is not a denial |
| 21:46.00 | Jayce | nah, harley has the beard still, but nothing else :) |
| 21:46.07 | Jayce^ | there |
| 21:47.45 | sjansen | Jayce^: I mean it is just as shocking and hard to imagine. |
| 21:49.37 | elg | Jayce^: I hope for all our sakes you mean that he shaved his head |
| 21:51.01 | Jayce^ | :) |
| 21:52.19 | mrpull | so are the new Intel Atom chips and motherboards going to have enough guts to play HD from a mythbackend? |
| 21:52.42 | elg | tell us more about them |
| 21:54.32 | mrpull | low power / low heat / low cost, really meant for ultra portables, but could be interesting in a HTPC (to me) if they can playback hi def |
| 21:55.03 | mrpull | I understand some of the atoms will deliver P4 performance without even needing a heatsink |
| 21:58.28 | elg | mrpull: i'm getting an nvidia card (budget geforce 6200, no heat sink) tomorrow. I'll let you know if I have any luck getting it to play HD with XvMC |
| 21:58.51 | mrpull | what cpu will you mate it with? |
| 21:58.56 | elg | the processor is an athlon 2800+ |
| 21:59.26 | elg | i also have an xp 2000+. if you bribe me I could put it in that computer at least for awhile and see if it handles it |
| 21:59.46 | elg | or if my wife rejects the dual-monitor setup :) |
| 22:01.27 | mrpull | dual monitor is a good thing. for me it might be a hard choice to choose between my wife and dual 20 inchers. ;) |
| 22:01.50 | elg | well, this isn't true dual monitor |
| 22:02.01 | elg | it would be the desktop monitor and the tv as the second monitor |
| 22:02.11 | mrpull | that could get ugly |
| 22:02.16 | elg | with independent X screens, but the mouse would still be able to escape to the TV screen |
| 22:02.24 | elg | yeah, it's an experiment |
| 22:02.38 | elg | if it fails, or if you bribe me, i'll put the card in the current myth frontend (my server) |
| 22:03.02 | elg | but it's a better card than the one currently in the 2800+, so that would be nice for 3d games |
| 22:03.23 | elg | plus the 2800+ has a better chance of being able to play HD |
| 22:03.38 | mrpull | I'm finding my xbox360 to be a quite capable front end box for streaming video from my PC. It might be time to rip all the kids movies to a media pc. |
| 22:06.02 | elg | how does "P4 performance" compare to an athlon 2800+? |
| 22:06.45 | mrpull | I think an athlon 2800 was supposed to be approximately equal to the performance of a 2.8 GHz P4 |
| 22:07.06 | elg | ah, probably |
| 22:07.13 | elg | 1.8 GHz |
| 22:07.37 | elg | Well, I could try playing HD on it tonight |
| 22:07.54 | elg | I think it might be able to handle it, but I can't remember for sure what resolutions I tried |
| 22:08.13 | elg | (with just Xv) |
| 22:11.25 | mrpull | it's a just a passing fancy for me right now, I wouldn't try to convince you to swap cpu's around at this point |
| 22:11.38 | levi | You could play back HD with a very wimpy CPU if you had the right video drivers for a recent nVidia card. |
| 22:11.51 | levi | Such drivers don't exist for Linux, though. |
| 22:12.57 | mrpull | windows MCE is a decent option for me right now given that I have an xbox360 and the directv dvr's will probably require it for their dvr->pc transfers |
| 22:13.47 | levi | You should be okay with a wimpy CPU, an 8- or 9-series nVidia card, and Windows. |
| 22:13.58 | levi | But I don't know for sure. |
| 22:14.54 | elg | well i'm not swapping CPUs, just video cards, but yeah |
| 22:17.51 | levi | XvMC should be faster than Xv, but it provides less acceleration for HD video than a modern nVidia card is capable of. |
| 22:17.59 | levi | You have to use Windows to get the full acceleration. |
| 22:22.14 | findlay | what about the jerk? Do you need windows to get that? |
| 22:23.01 | *** join/#utah chedges (i=3f566be2@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-ee1d0c328e81adfe) |
| 22:24.19 | *** part/#utah chedges (i=3f566be2@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-ee1d0c328e81adfe) |
| 22:28.48 | findlay | what does Connection Reset by peer mean? |
| 22:30.48 | elg | that the peer reset the connection |
| 22:31.05 | elg | in the irc case, the peer (the user's computer) reset the connection (didn't say goodbye nicely) |
| 22:31.18 | findlay | well, this is the samba case |
| 22:31.25 | elg | levi: yes this is true |
| 22:31.46 | elg | and myth basically can't even utilize that much from a 9-series card iiuc |
| 22:32.04 | elg | so for myth, 9-series would actually be worse |
| 22:32.12 | findlay | windows computers are resetting connections to the samba server |
| 22:32.22 | findlay | any ideas about why? |
| 22:32.28 | elg | because they're rude? |
| 22:32.39 | elg | to make your life difficult? |
| 22:33.05 | findlay | well that's nice, but not actionable |
| 22:33.24 | findlay | maybe I should tell them to just use ubuntu |
| 22:46.14 | *** part/#utah Cyberkruz (i=3f566be2@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-467850c045b63f2d) |
| 22:56.40 | *** join/#utah Dew420 (n=Nishi@c-67-164-197-204.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 22:59.40 | Dew420 | cheers |
| 22:59.59 | Dew420 | Finally got the power bill. Now I can get my id tomorrow and legally be able to work lol |
| 23:02.55 | herlo | findlay: but ubuntu isn't linux its ubuntu :) |
| 23:03.51 | *** join/#utah eggyknap (n=eggyknap@ip67-88-113-150.z113-88-67.customer.algx.net) |
| 23:08.25 | findlay | Dew420: if it makes you feel any better, I would have paid you if you mowed my lawn |
| 23:08.32 | findlay | even without a power bill |
| 23:09.27 | *** join/#utah sinuhe (n=user@12.189.106.194) |
| 23:11.15 | Dew420 | lol |
| 23:11.31 | Dew420 | how big and where do you live :P rofl |
| 23:12.26 | findlay | it's like 50 m^2 in Provo |
| 23:13.00 | findlay | I don't even own it, but the management expects me to water it 30 minutes every day |
| 23:13.03 | findlay | yeah right |
| 23:13.18 | findlay | first of all, grass doesn't need to be watered every day |
| 23:15.59 | Dew420 | lol |
| 23:17.02 | bonez45 | how does one setup a wireless interface? what creates the sit0 or wlan0 or whatever the interface is called? |
| 23:17.38 | findlay | bonez45: usually that's done by a script that ships with your distro |
| 23:19.24 | *** join/#utah sinuhe` (n=user@12.189.106.194) |
| 23:19.49 | herlo | bonez45: what wireless card do you have? to find out, try lspci |
| 23:23.08 | bonez45 | it's a marvell.. I already downloaded the .inf and other win xp drivers..and have run ndiswrapper to create the modules for it... |
| 23:23.26 | bonez45 | it's just setting up wlan0.. I guess I have to manually set up my /etc/network/interfaces file, right? |
| 23:26.09 | findlay | I'm not sure what you'd do, but I would install NetworkManager |
| 23:28.16 | bonez45 | network manager..ok, I am running etch |
| 23:28.23 | bonez45 | is it just apt-get install networkmanager? |
| 23:29.05 | *** join/#utah roving_prole (n=Harper@c-98-202-87-164.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 23:31.02 | *** join/#utah emcnabb (n=emcnabb@cpe-069-134-233-156.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 23:31.02 | *** mode/#utah [+v emcnabb] by ChanServ |
| 23:38.34 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@216.31.27.110) |
| 23:38.34 | *** mode/#utah [+v elg] by ChanServ |
| 23:41.09 | *** join/#utah [1]Killarny (n=Killarny@160.7.234.4) |
| 23:43.39 | herlo | any recommendations on a lightweight email client for linux? |
| 23:44.04 | herlo | findlay: if he's using ndiswrapper, NM probably won't work with it |
| 23:44.16 | herlo | bonez45: what distro? |
| 23:53.00 | *** join/#utah [2]Killarny (n=Killarny@160.7.234.4) |