| 00:00.08 | Supaplex | fo fwee! |
| 00:00.09 | Supaplex | dashes off |
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| 01:15.45 | Supaplex | flips E=MC^2 on its head, and declares a nagative value for M |
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| 02:16.57 | Heartsbane | ~logs |
| 02:16.58 | ibot | [logs] apt/ibot/infobot/jbot/purl all log daily to http://ibot.rikers.org/<channelname>/ where channelname is html encoded ie: %23debian | lines that start with a space are not shown | some channels have stats at http://ibot.rikers.org/stats/<channelname>.html.gz |
| 03:02.23 | levi | Good evening. |
| 03:06.22 | Tene | sure is so far |
| 03:09.09 | levi | How come? |
| 03:09.21 | herlo | why not? |
| 03:12.05 | Tene | I haven't died by burning *or* asphyxiation! |
| 03:12.15 | Tene | I'd say that's a pretty significant plus. |
| 03:12.20 | herlo | could be |
| 03:12.25 | herlo | depending on your point of view |
| 03:12.29 | Tene | eh, true |
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| 03:25.28 | levi | Well, I'm afraid those reasons haven't inspired me. |
| 03:35.37 | Supaplex | pity pity |
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| 05:29.02 | bonez44 | what is Mercurial? |
| 05:40.18 | Sargun | A DVCS |
| 05:40.31 | bonez44 | thanks....I finally looked it up |
| 05:42.44 | Sargun | Cool |
| 05:43.49 | bonez44 | so, is it just you and me tonight? |
| 05:49.17 | Supaplex | hears Sargun purr |
| 05:51.30 | Sargun | hehe |
| 05:51.36 | Sargun | is hacking away at LD_PRELOAD |
| 05:52.03 | Supaplex | watches it turn into LD_PRELOA then LD_PRELO ... LD_PREL ... |
| 05:53.42 | elg | sigh |
| 05:53.56 | elg | typo is taking up 220 megs of ram |
| 05:54.10 | elg | what could possibly be so large? isn't that why there's a db? |
| 06:02.09 | Sargun | What's the cheapest way to key integers to structs? |
| 06:02.21 | Sargun | plain old array? |
| 06:05.56 | elg | key them? |
| 06:06.09 | elg | ah! the sessions are stored in the db and collecting like mad |
| 06:09.48 | elg | yeah, that's a 5-fold improvement |
| 06:11.26 | *** part/#utah bonez44 (n=david_pa@75.144.9.237) |
| 06:18.41 | findlay | ugh |
| 06:19.20 | findlay | I hate those sessions in the DB |
| 06:23.34 | Supaplex | ~lart sessions |
| 06:23.34 | ibot | pours hot grits down the front of sessions's pants |
| 06:33.22 | Supaplex | my neuron supercluster is running on empty. later g(uy|al)s. :) |
| 06:39.52 | findlay | oh sure |
| 06:47.32 | Supaplex | at least I didn't say g[ua][yl]s - that might have an unexpected match ;) |
| 07:06.04 | findlay | ~random |
| 07:25.05 | Sargun | int set(int fd, char *filename, int compressed); |
| 07:25.06 | Sargun | int set(int fd, char *filename); |
| 07:25.09 | Sargun | overloading is broken? |
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| 16:14.53 | encryptz | what is the equivalent /boot/grub/menu.lst for debian sparc? |
| 16:15.40 | levi | What bootloader does debian sparc use? |
| 16:16.25 | encryptz | i thought grub |
| 16:17.07 | encryptz | hmm. i have a /boot/silo.conf |
| 16:17.23 | levi | Why did you think grub? |
| 16:17.44 | encryptz | i thought it was default |
| 16:18.25 | levi | Does grub support sparcs? |
| 16:19.07 | encryptz | dunno. but apparently " Like LILO or MILO, but for SPARC. This is the program you need to use if you plan to boot SPARC/Linux via a hard drive, floppy or CDROM. It installs to the boot block of your system and will allow for booting of Linux, Solaris, and |
| 16:19.10 | sontek | you use silo with sparcs |
| 16:19.11 | encryptz | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:19.39 | encryptz | yeah. didn't know that until just now. interesting |
| 16:20.52 | levi | I imagine grub could be ported to Sparc, but I doubt there's enough people using Sparc Linux to care. |
| 16:21.54 | levi | For future reference, bootloaders are very architecture-specific. This should be obvious if you think about it. |
| 16:26.03 | Jayce^ | encryptz, my old spac used Silo to boot |
| 16:26.45 | encryptz | levi: it was as soon as i realized grub was missing |
| 16:29.57 | Supaplex | my old hp parisc doesn't grok grub either :) |
| 16:31.14 | encryptz | i'm sure sparc linux is rare. as such, it just caught me a bit off guard |
| 16:32.22 | levi | So, if you boot anything besides an x86 or PPC, you will not be using grub. |
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| 16:50.41 | levi | I'm surprised elg hasn't chimed in on the grad school thread. |
| 16:51.36 | sontek | school is for nerds, real men work! |
| 16:51.37 | sontek | ;) |
| 16:52.37 | sontek | I wish I would've finished college, now its to late :( |
| 16:53.00 | thaddeusq | sontek: It's never too late to go back. |
| 16:53.41 | sontek | thaddeusq: it is if you need to work to make your mortgage and car payments :P |
| 16:54.06 | thaddeusq | sontek: There's always night school. |
| 16:54.27 | thaddeusq | sontek: I'm saying this more to myself than to you. |
| 16:54.40 | sontek | thaddeusq: does UofU have decent night classes? |
| 16:56.24 | Supaplex | this is salt lake you're talking about. don't bring a broadsword to a gun fight. ;) |
| 16:57.24 | sontek | Katie graduates next semester, so i'll wait out her internship, then she can be my suga mommam |
| 16:57.27 | sontek | momma* |
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| 17:01.37 | nick125 | Hey guys, I was wondering if it is possible to have a RAID1 over three disks. |
| 17:02.47 | Supaplex | I don't see why not |
| 17:11.38 | synic | slow++ |
| 17:19.43 | Sargun | nick125, Yeah, why not? |
| 17:19.46 | Sargun | Do it. |
| 17:19.58 | fozzmoo | nick125: You could partition the third disk into two partitions and mirror it. :) |
| 17:20.20 | Sargun | Sometimes I do two RAID1s with a global hotspare |
| 17:20.28 | fozzmoo | I don't know why we don't that with all our RAID1 arrays. |
| 17:21.21 | levi | sontek: I'm finishing up my degree while I work. |
| 17:21.45 | levi | sontek: It's a pain, but it's doable. And my tuition is reimbursed by work. |
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| 18:33.01 | Supaplex | that was fun... |
| 18:33.13 | Supaplex | power drops for 20 sec |
| 18:33.52 | Supaplex | I call the power co "Uh what was that?" - no idea. and *then* I hear word the guy outside is done replacing the meter. |
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| 18:42.50 | nick125 | I think 6GB of swap shoudl be enough...but this RAID is going to take another 2 hours to initialize |
| 18:42.59 | sargun_screen | heh |
| 18:43.30 | nick125 | It is a 1.8TB RAID5 though. |
| 18:43.36 | Tene | nick125: what are you using 6G of swap for? |
| 18:43.45 | sargun_screen | What kind of drives |
| 18:43.47 | sargun_screen | members |
| 18:43.57 | nick125 | Tene: Well, I just put 2GB of swap on each drive...it was a nice even number. |
| 18:44.09 | nick125 | sargun_screen: WD 640GB SATA300 drives...I don't know the model # off hand |
| 18:44.28 | Tene | nick125: swapon -s |
| 18:44.45 | findlay | swapoff |
| 18:45.23 | Supaplex | so if a drive fails, what happens to dirty swap? :P |
| 18:45.30 | elg | haha. dmdavis says "which graduate school do you think i should go to" and jesse says "none" |
| 18:45.51 | elg | obviously everyone should be doing social networking programming |
| 18:46.05 | nick125 | Supaplex: The server will probably crash |
| 18:46.48 | sargun_screen | cool |
| 18:46.48 | levi | elg: I knew you'd have something to say on the topic. :) |
| 18:47.09 | levi | I hate Facebook. |
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| 18:48.21 | Supaplex | google already knows too much about me. no facebook :P |
| 18:48.52 | scottj | If you guys were installing a projector for a multipurpose room mostly to be used for powerpoints would you pull a VGA or DVI cable? |
| 18:49.05 | levi | VGA |
| 18:49.11 | nick125 | scottj: If possible, both. If not, VGA. |
| 18:49.25 | jsmith | scottj: Both |
| 18:49.41 | levi | Actually, it probably depends on budget and run length. |
| 18:50.11 | nick125 | If you have enough for both, then do both. If not, do VGA. If I remember correctly, you can convert DVI into VGA, but not the other way around (least without an active converter) |
| 18:50.35 | levi | DVI spec says 5 meters. |
| 18:50.45 | Sargun | Send it over optical |
| 18:51.40 | levi | Anyway, the digital signal degrades much quicker with length, which is why I suggested the analog option. |
| 18:51.52 | elg | sheesh. listen to the masses parroting the groupthink that grad school is worthelss |
| 18:52.20 | Supaplex | grad school is, or isn't college? |
| 18:52.28 | Tene | It's not that useful if your reason for doing it is getting a specific job that doesn't require grad school. |
| 18:52.35 | elg | either. the groupthink is spilling over into college too |
| 18:52.42 | Tene | Which is what most people in that discussion are presuming the purpose is. |
| 18:52.47 | elg | Tene: exactly. it's not a requirement for a good job |
| 18:52.53 | elg | that doesn't mean it's worthless |
| 18:53.01 | elg | they didn't even ask his purpose |
| 18:53.16 | elg | "which of these grad schools should I go to?" |
| 18:53.29 | Tene | If your purpose is, say, doing interesting research, it might be more useful than getting a social network programming job might be. |
| 18:53.34 | levi | elg: Grad school is hard and expensive! It must be worthless! |
| 18:53.39 | elg | "you're an idiot. you don't need to go to grad school! heck, you probably wasted your time going to college in the first place" |
| 18:54.13 | elg | i feel true pity for people who don't realize there's more to life than being a code monkey |
| 18:54.29 | levi | elg: Do you talk much with Von about your school experience? I thought his post near the end of the thread was kind of odd. |
| 18:54.35 | elg | be a code monkey, make lots of money, enjoy evenings and weekends sometimes |
| 18:55.14 | elg | or, pursue what you enjoy, continually expand your mind, *and* enjoy your evenings and weekends (make a little bit less money perhaps) |
| 18:55.53 | elg | no, I've been out of state since he was a freshman or maybe sophomore |
| 18:56.05 | sontek | pfft, money > *! |
| 18:56.30 | sontek | who needs nights and weekends if you don't have money to party?! |
| 18:56.31 | levi | elg: He thinks he doesn't want to go to grad school because of the imposed structure and busywork of school. |
| 18:56.34 | elg | i should probably have a nice talk with him. he had more background going in than I did (by virtue of osmosis from being my bro, and that he was younger when the internet hit) |
| 18:56.57 | elg | so the cs classes are more boring to him than they were to me |
| 18:57.11 | elg | i was lucky enough to get some undergraduate research |
| 18:57.18 | elg | he's worked mostly on the side as a code monkey |
| 18:57.34 | unum | A grad degree will make it harder to get certain jobs and easier to get others |
| 18:58.12 | levi | I don't think a Master's would make it harder to get any job that a Master's holder would be interested in. |
| 18:58.56 | findlay | isn't a coder by species and has always planned on getting at least a doctor of degree |
| 18:59.05 | unum | levi: that last part is the important part |
| 18:59.32 | findlay | you can't do what I want to do without a PhD |
| 18:59.58 | nick125 | findlay: Which is...? |
| 19:00.18 | levi | unum: If you, at some point, decided you wanted to get one of those jobs, you could always omit the degree on your resume and not mention it. |
| 19:00.29 | findlay | nick125: hep-th+cosmology |
| 19:00.54 | levi | findlay: Needing a graduate degree for something?! That's un-possible! |
| 19:00.58 | unum | levi: that's true but I don't enjoy school |
| 19:01.08 | unum | so that would be really pointless for me |
| 19:01.28 | levi | unum: What don't you enjoy about school? |
| 19:02.13 | unum | my feelings are similiar to Von's(if you're on that list) |
| 19:02.33 | unum | the graduate students I know were still doing a lot of repetive work |
| 19:02.38 | unum | it wasn't all fun stuff |
| 19:02.39 | findlay | I think most people (including me) hate that about school |
| 19:02.43 | elg | life isn't all fun |
| 19:02.48 | levi | Well, sure it's not going to all be fun stuff. |
| 19:02.52 | elg | the code monkeys I know are doing ONLY repetitive work |
| 19:02.56 | unum | but at least I get paid at work instead of the other way around |
| 19:03.15 | elg | i get paid to be a grad student |
| 19:03.26 | elg | not a whole lot, but enough to live on |
| 19:03.40 | elg | definitely not the life for spendomaniacs |
| 19:03.41 | unum | I get paid more than enough to live on |
| 19:03.48 | unum | and I enjoy it a lot |
| 19:03.48 | elg | but it's night and day from undergrad |
| 19:03.54 | elg | undergrad you pay to go to school |
| 19:04.00 | elg | grad they pay you to go to school (if you're any good) |
| 19:04.11 | unum | I wasn't any good as an undergrad |
| 19:04.18 | unum | there would be no scholarship for me |
| 19:04.26 | levi | As I said, the metric for 'good' is different in grad school. |
| 19:04.33 | elg | it's totally ok that not everyone, even not most people, will want to go to grad school |
| 19:04.41 | elg | and grad school will do nothing for some/most people |
| 19:05.07 | elg | just like most people on PLUG will probably not get anything out of going to culinary school |
| 19:05.08 | levi | The fewer people who want to go to grad school, the better. |
| 19:05.22 | elg | they don't want to be chefs, and they get all they can handle about food science from good eats and redbeard |
| 19:05.22 | unum | I do think some people go to grad school for the wrong reasons |
| 19:05.27 | levi | But that doesn't mean that they ought to talk someone who does want to go out of it. |
| 19:05.56 | levi | Especially when they supply bogus reasons. |
| 19:06.04 | unum | I think those reasons were valid |
| 19:06.21 | levi | Some of them were. |
| 19:06.48 | levi | "You'll get more out of working" is bogus, in general. May be true for some people, though. |
| 19:07.22 | unum | depends on what type of job you want to work |
| 19:07.35 | unum | so maybe that should have been clarified |
| 19:07.51 | levi | Well, yeah. |
| 19:08.03 | unum | I think there are a lot more code monkey jobs out there than research jobs |
| 19:08.24 | levi | If I ask, "Should I go to school X or Y?" I shouldn't be told, "Don't do it! You'll be throwing your time and money away!" |
| 19:08.29 | unum | but if you really enjoy the research and feel you can get a job in than it's a good idea |
| 19:09.02 | Sargun | Is it just me or does China remind me you of the third Reich? |
| 19:09.09 | unum | someone asked him why he wanted the degree |
| 19:09.13 | levi | Perhaps you might ask, "What's your goal for going to school?" and if the answer seems to expose a poor reason for going to school, then those reasons could come up. |
| 19:09.36 | levi | unum: Eventually they asked, after a bunch of people piled on the anti-grad-school bandwagon. |
| 19:10.18 | unum | but I doubt my company would be more likely to hirer someone with a graduate degree than someone with out one |
| 19:10.41 | unum | they'd be afraid they wanted more money and wouldn't be able to code any faster |
| 19:11.05 | levi | And what's your company? |
| 19:11.22 | unum | so I don't like someone stated on the list that employers would be more likely to hirer someone with a graduate degree |
| 19:11.30 | unum | levi: do you want a name or and industry? |
| 19:12.08 | levi | Both, just out of curiosity. |
| 19:12.08 | unum | venturedata, we operate call centers for market research |
| 19:12.15 | unum | we actually do have someone with a masters degree in ee |
| 19:12.23 | unum | he rearanges csv files all day.... |
| 19:12.40 | levi | Heh. |
| 19:13.04 | levi | Adding a degree to an incompetent person does not make them any more competent. |
| 19:13.54 | unum | true that |
| 19:13.58 | scottj | levi: just curious, what are you doing these days? iirc you were at uvsc reading my old lisp books last I talked to you |
| 19:14.23 | scottj | in grad school now? |
| 19:15.12 | levi | Anyway, I've worked with worthless higher-degree-holders too. The fact is, the good ones aren't even trying to work for companies like yours, unless they're in some upper position applying their specialty to your company's business. |
| 19:15.21 | elg | rangs |
| 19:15.22 | elg | rants even |
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| 19:15.57 | findlay | coding is just so ... practical |
| 19:16.04 | levi | scottj: I'm still finishing up my degree at UVSC, and occasionally reading through bits of your lisp books. Taking two classes per term makes for slow going. |
| 19:16.14 | findlay | and let's get this out in the open, who wants to do something practical? |
| 19:16.27 | findlay | see? Nobody |
| 19:16.38 | findlay | I recommend theoretical physics |
| 19:16.43 | levi | scottj: I wrote several class assignments in Scheme. :) |
| 19:16.43 | unum | we'd neve pay enough for someone good with an advance degree |
| 19:17.00 | scottj | levi, what grad programs are you thinking about? |
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| 19:18.20 | levi | scottj: For the moment, I'm pondering the slow course of doing a Master's first, possibly through a satellite program like USU's. |
| 19:18.46 | levi | scottj: I switched jobs, and I'm enjoying what I'm doing here quite a bit. |
| 19:19.02 | scottj | what company and industry? |
| 19:19.53 | unum | USU's satellite program would definetly be the slow course |
| 19:21.04 | levi | elg: Good rant! |
| 19:21.45 | levi | scottj: Harman International, the music electronics industry. |
| 19:22.55 | levi | scottj: I'm working with what is basically a research team here. My boss and two coworkers are active in IEEE working on upcoming network standards, and I'm doing prototype implementations of them. |
| 19:23.02 | unum | I think my biggest problem is I hate "practicing" |
| 19:24.41 | levi | Well, you've got to practice, or you will always be mediocre at best. I'm not sure anyone really enjoys practicing. |
| 19:25.08 | unum | I like working on projects on work because people really use them |
| 19:25.36 | unum | I know in graduate school you get to work on stuff that's more "real world" sometimes |
| 19:25.42 | unum | but it just doesn't excite me |
| 19:26.00 | levi | Well, not necessarily 'real world', but at least stuff you're personally interested in. |
| 19:27.14 | levi | Anyway, school is, in the end, what you make of it. |
| 19:27.23 | elg | s/school/life/ |
| 19:27.49 | unum | see right now I find a good solution for an np hard problem set and my employer can afford to hirer less people |
| 19:27.50 | levi | If you decide you're tired of it and it's worthless, you're not going to get anything out of it, and voila! It was a waste of time, and your position self-justifies. |
| 19:28.08 | unum | if I did that in grad school it changes nothing, except I can submit an article to a magazine |
| 19:28.32 | levi | Heh. |
| 19:29.21 | levi | A 'magazine' that is read by anyone who's researching in your field, including people who sit in the research departments of major corporations. |
| 19:29.49 | levi | If your solution solves a real-world problem well, it'll get noticed and implemented on a far wider scale. |
| 19:30.12 | unum | so in two more years they might hirer me and might get to actualy implement it so it benefits someone |
| 19:30.41 | unum | I guess part of my problem is I don't think I'm smart enough to solve any problems that haven't already been solved |
| 19:30.50 | unum | at least not anything interesting anyways |
| 19:31.18 | unum | s/interesting/significant |
| 19:31.19 | sontek | xen orchestrator is pretty cool |
| 19:31.22 | levi | Well, that's a possibility, I guess. |
| 19:32.39 | elg | there's certainly nothing wrong with being a craftsman |
| 19:32.56 | elg | churning out beautiful code to others' specs |
| 19:33.19 | elg | many people do get much satisfaction out of that, and why not? noble profession |
| 19:33.19 | levi | Learning how to research is even a useful skill for a craftsman. |
| 19:33.47 | levi | Maybe you won't be adding anything new to the body of knowledge, but you'll know how to understand the stuff that's out there and apply it to your craft. |
| 19:34.03 | elg | absolutely, but I don't claim grad school has a monopoly on teaching research skills |
| 19:34.18 | elg | i see grad school as an opportunity to hone those skills intensively |
| 19:34.32 | elg | to make them the primary focus, rather than secondary |
| 19:34.49 | levi | There aren't too many good places to learn research skills from, though. |
| 19:34.55 | elg | for the entire career (possibly). and if you enjoy research more than crafting, that's when you should go to grad school |
| 19:35.08 | wps | can someone explain to me how this is an infinite loop? |
| 19:35.09 | wps | http://rafb.net/p/qCOJpB39.html |
| 19:35.10 | elg | well, self-learning is the second best i think if you have that kind of personality |
| 19:35.13 | levi | Undergrad classes tend to force-feed you rather than show you how to research. |
| 19:35.53 | wps | (I don't want it to be) |
| 19:35.59 | elg | yeah, before grad school I got most of my research training (for what it's worth) from undergrad research assistantship jobs and UUG/PLUG |
| 19:36.00 | elg | :) |
| 19:36.39 | levi | elg: A lot of undergrads have no idea that undergrad research opportunities exist, or that they might be good for something. |
| 19:36.47 | elg | true |
| 19:37.06 | levi | "Why would I want to waste my time on that when I've got all this darned coursework to do?!" |
| 19:37.09 | elg | and as we see a lot of undergrads (or bachelors) have the same lack in understanding grad school |
| 19:37.45 | elg | levi: not to mention their full-time job to pay for the mustang |
| 19:38.24 | levi | Capitalism and materialism are pretty strong forces. |
| 19:38.31 | levi | Especially in our culture. |
| 19:38.44 | elg | and thinking can be a lot of work |
| 19:38.49 | elg | that's another strong force |
| 19:39.00 | elg | but hey, we don't want everyone to go to grad school |
| 19:39.02 | sjansen | Yeah, yeah, we're all fully aware the two of you enjoy poverty. ;-) |
| 19:39.10 | elg | :) |
| 19:39.24 | levi | sjansen: Hey, who said *I* enjoy poverty? :) |
| 19:39.25 | elg | i'm not sure if levi qualifies as poverty-stricken |
| 19:39.38 | levi | I am definitely not poverty-stricken. |
| 19:39.50 | levi | This makes the decision to go to grad school all that much harder. |
| 19:40.15 | nick125 | I hate this KVM switch. |
| 19:40.30 | elg | i spend an inordinate amount of time figuring out what to do with the money I do have |
| 19:40.49 | elg | i can imagine being not-poverished is a bit of a timesink |
| 19:41.20 | levi | elg: On the other hand, with more of it, you can afford to not spend so much time worrying about where it goes. |
| 19:41.32 | elg | yeah, that's true too |
| 19:41.59 | levi | The downside of which is that you get less value out of it, but maybe that's worth it. |
| 19:42.24 | nick125 | I can't get the KVM switch to change ports |
| 19:43.03 | levi | nick125: You need to guwheedle the frobnicator. That'll loosen it right up. |
| 19:46.41 | findlay | check the cabin ventilators for the proportioning servo on the cloaking device |
| 19:46.55 | levi | elg: Imagine the cool brick ovens and such you could build, though. :) |
| 19:47.21 | elg | oh i have no intention of being forever impoverished |
| 19:47.54 | goozbach | levi: http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/CommonCraft/~3/258546458/funny-rockwells-retro-encabulator |
| 19:48.11 | goozbach | it's an encabulator, not a frobnicator. |
| 19:48.44 | tensai | you know what you get if you cross a frobnicator and an encabulator? |
| 19:48.52 | tensai | a fozzmoo |
| 19:50.04 | levi | Ooh, Sperving bearings. |
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| 19:56.23 | findlay | but |
| 19:56.26 | findlay | whispers |
| 19:56.54 | Supaplex | ~fart |
| 19:56.55 | ibot | ACTION farts, releasing large quantities of methane and sulfur dioxide. "Evacuate the channel! GO! *gag* SAVE YOURSELVES *cough* MOVE *choke* MOVE!" |
| 19:56.56 | findlay | can a turboencabulator be used to provide the necessary inverse shock flux to allow for time travel? |
| 20:01.11 | atoponce | findlay, only if 1.21 jigawatts are supplied |
| 20:01.26 | *** join/#utah nick125_eee (n=nick@136.sub-70-210-169.myvzw.com) |
| 20:01.33 | atoponce | which, supprisingly enough, Mr. Fusion can provide for us |
| 20:01.45 | findlay | buh |
| 20:01.59 | findlay | Mr Fusion's on ebay are way too expensive |
| 20:02.23 | findlay | looks like I'll DIY Mr Fusion |
| 20:03.17 | findlay | did you know that ^2H + ^2H --> He + \gammas in the nucleus of the sun is a rare reaction? |
| 20:03.36 | findlay | something on the order of 1 every 10^22 nuclear interactions |
| 20:03.56 | Supaplex | so what's most common? |
| 20:04.09 | findlay | I don't know, probably something boring |
| 20:04.23 | Supaplex | 2H -> 1He + gammas? |
| 20:04.58 | Supaplex | how hot before 2H won't stay w/each other and drift as loners? |
| 20:05.45 | findlay | wait |
| 20:05.52 | findlay | I meant two deuteriums |
| 20:05.59 | findlay | heck, I don't remember the reaction |
| 20:07.24 | findlay | hm, maybe you need a tritium |
| 20:07.39 | Supaplex | well walk over there and see ;) |
| 20:07.58 | levi | http://scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=316 |
| 20:09.01 | findlay | check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_fusion for details on the equations and their yields |
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| 20:20.55 | Supaplex | mmmm my dark chocolate says happy valentines :) |
| 20:39.45 | levi | elg: You hoity-toidy snob, you. :P |
| 20:39.58 | elg | :) |
| 20:40.29 | elg | I like grant. he can call me a snob whenever he likes. hopefully my follow up will clarify my true meaning |
| 20:40.38 | levi | rants about anti-intellectualism. |
| 20:40.55 | elg | otoh, some people (maybe even grant, I don't know him well enough to say) are going to think that anyone who defends higher education is a snob |
| 20:41.09 | elg | that's their problem, not mine |
| 20:41.52 | levi | I think, because IT is a nerdy field, people going to grad school challenges their nerd cred or something. |
| 20:45.58 | elg | so I got one of those "you won this prize, go to the car dealership to claim it" things |
| 20:46.23 | elg | I have a weakness for those - I just have to figure out how they work. i mean, they obviously aren't giving away home entertainment systems to everyone |
| 20:47.04 | elg | looking at the odds, 1:1 for their "getaway" - which is basically 2 nights in a florida hotel, and oh by the way you're on your own to get there and make it interesting |
| 20:47.04 | levi | There's an elaborate self-justification going on the mind of a nerdy IT guy. The possibility of other, even nerdier career choices being just as valid is kind of ego-damaging. Or, maybe it's just that someone's else's self-justification doesn't ring quite as true as one's own. |
| 20:47.19 | elg | the odds for the other prizes are 1:130k or higher |
| 20:47.27 | elg | supposedly you won 2 from the list |
| 20:47.27 | levi | elg: It's an incentive to be invited to a hard-sell. |
| 20:48.08 | elg | well yes, but even sitting through a hard sell isn't worth them giving me a $500 entertainment system. besides technically i'm not obligated to sit through any sales pitch or take a test drive |
| 20:48.10 | levi | elg: They get good results from their hard-sells, so the relatively cheap vacation package is worth it for the people it brings in. |
| 20:48.39 | elg | exactly. and how many people are going to spend $1000 to get the other $500 worth in hotel nights? |
| 20:48.48 | elg | not many, so they don't have to pay that one out much |
| 20:48.51 | levi | Right. |
| 20:49.03 | elg | the other prizes, it looks like you'd win, but the key word is "scratch ticket" |
| 20:49.43 | elg | so you're definitely getting the lame "getaway" and in all likelihood a scratch ticket. those are your two prizes |
| 20:49.55 | elg | your chances of actually getting the cash on that ticket, 1:137000 |
| 20:53.23 | elg | plus it's no doubt an arrangement with the hotel, which probably has vacant rooms anyway |
| 20:53.23 | levi | Yeah, not so great odds. But if you don't think too much about it, it sounds like a really great deal! |
| 20:53.47 | levi | I think there are companies that organize the whole 'promotional vacation package' deals. |
| 20:54.11 | elg | and why not? same principle as coupons and cheap airline fares |
| 20:54.16 | elg | price discrimination |
| 20:54.35 | levi | I'm sure they have arrangements with the hotels, and they sell vouchers to people who want to run promotions. |
| 20:57.06 | elg | my self justification rings truest |
| 20:57.36 | levi | The company that sells the vouchers probably has a bunch of actuaries to figure out just how many people are going to actually use them. |
| 20:57.41 | elg | and i need all that I can get right now. this paper is kicking my trash and I'm really not enjoying grad school this month |
| 20:58.03 | levi | What paper? |
| 20:58.13 | elg | my literature review, aka "comprehensive exam" |
| 20:58.27 | elg | it's a literature review of "my field" focusing on breadth not depth |
| 20:58.46 | levi | That sounds taxing. |
| 20:58.49 | elg | about 30-50 pages probably. 50 papers in the references |
| 20:59.07 | levi | Summarizing to that degree is hard. |
| 20:59.15 | elg | yeah, I'm really hating it |
| 20:59.42 | elg | but more than the paper being difficult, though it is, is that I just really really don't want to do it at any given moment. so I get distracted |
| 21:00.00 | elg | then with family, teaching classes, etc. it's really easy to make 0 progress |
| 21:00.12 | levi | Tell me about it. This is why I'm behind in my compiler assigment. |
| 21:00.14 | elg | which makes you feel like a real loser. that's the part that's kicking my trash. |
| 21:00.29 | elg | I know i could sit down and crank this paper out in a week. I just can't seem to do it |
| 21:00.32 | elg | and so it drags on |
| 21:01.07 | levi | Yeah, I hate that feeling. |
| 21:02.16 | levi | The whole compiler course is pretty much just implementing the compiler. And it would take me maybe another 6-8 hours of solid work to finish it, but stuff is fuzzy enough in my head that I can't just sit down and start banging out code. |
| 21:02.59 | elg | i'll write the compiler and you write my paper. great |
| 21:03.26 | levi | Heh. |
| 21:03.52 | levi | You'd have to come up to speed on Haskell pretty quick. Fortunately, my Haskell usage isn't terribly advanced. ;) |
| 21:04.41 | elg | while we're at it, we can trade places. I'll go work at a really awesome audio company doing embedded stuff and you can be in grad school with the brutal summer creeping up on you ;-) |
| 21:05.09 | elg | every year i wonder how I'm going to survive |
| 21:05.13 | elg | -metar klru |
| 21:05.14 | levi | Hmm, let me think about that for a minute. |
| 21:05.20 | elg | ~metar klru |
| 21:05.24 | levi | Nope, I don't think so. :) |
| 21:05.36 | levi | You're the one who picked New Mexico. You're nuts. :) |
| 21:05.41 | Sargun | Haha |
| 21:06.25 | levi | UVa at least has trees for shade, though it's way humid there. |
| 21:06.48 | Sargun | levi, You're an embedded devices programmer, right? What experience do you have with FIB/[T]CAM design? |
| 21:06.56 | Sargun | or forwarding-plane design? |
| 21:07.58 | levi | Absolutely zero. |
| 21:08.23 | levi | Did you miss the difference between hardware design and embedded systems programming? |
| 21:08.30 | Sargun | Heh. |
| 21:08.44 | Sargun | FIBs and forwarding-planes can be implemented in software... |
| 21:09.24 | Sargun | levi, Do you know much about IP? [IPv4] |
| 21:10.05 | Sargun | What do you think about using R-Trees to organize the FIB? |
| 21:10.21 | levi | Sargun: I don't do network switches. |
| 21:10.46 | levi | Especially not at that level. |
| 21:10.49 | Sargun | Or network routers |
| 21:10.56 | Sargun | That's where all the cool stuff happens. |
| 21:10.56 | Sargun | :-P |
| 21:11.16 | Sargun | Layer 2,3 are the most interesting parts of the thing. |
| 21:11.38 | levi | By 'level' I don't mean protocol layer. |
| 21:11.59 | levi | I work with layer 2 and 3 stuff all the time. |
| 21:12.04 | Sargun | Well, like higher level stuff -- as in general protocol design? |
| 21:12.05 | Sargun | oh. |
| 21:13.10 | levi | Now, in what way is '[Ternary] Content Addressable Memory' implementable in software? |
| 21:13.26 | Sargun | I never said it was. |
| 21:13.54 | Sargun | Well, I mean its basically a dictionary [Pythonic] or an associative array |
| 21:14.07 | Sargun | implemented, and accelerated with hardware |
| 21:14.26 | levi | Um, yeah. Anyway, I don't worry about that part of network hardware. |
| 21:15.22 | Sargun | You leave that to the experts. |
| 21:16.20 | levi | Indeed. |
| 21:16.55 | levi | *sigh* |
| 21:17.12 | levi | I no longer have a functioning sprinkler system in my front yard. |
| 21:17.30 | levi | Though, apparently, I do have a bunch of fence posts. |
| 21:18.43 | levi | Sargun: Anyway, why do you ask whether I know about that stuff? |
| 21:20.05 | Sargun | Because I am looking at building my own forwarding-plane |
| 21:20.21 | Sargun | Well, er, designing one at least |
| 21:21.17 | Sargun | and possibly getting rid of the TCAM |
| 21:22.55 | levi | What dimensions would you use in your r-tree? |
| 21:29.09 | Sargun | Err, not a plain R-Tree |
| 21:29.29 | Sargun | Some sort of 3dimensional curve |
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| 21:29.57 | levi | So, what are your dimensions representing? |
| 21:30.46 | sjansen | Sunshine and puppies. |
| 21:31.34 | Sargun | hehe |
| 21:31.49 | Sargun | The first two sections of the IP address |
| 21:31.52 | Sargun | err, three |
| 21:31.53 | sjansen | Now as you'll notice, Mr. the Frog, we've revolutionized our backplane design by utilizing the Rainbow Connection. |
| 21:34.49 | levi | Sargun: In what way to you seek to benefit from using an R-tree variant? |
| 21:35.07 | tensai | if that ain't annoying. my congressman just sent me an email, which is cool. but he sent it as a *word doc*, which isn't cool. |
| 21:36.23 | tensai | I suppose I should expect as much from somebody who voted for telecom immunity |
| 21:37.03 | Sargun | levi, Because its a major problem to organize prefix -> nexthop records. |
| 21:41.22 | Sargun | levi, in your opinion what would be the best way to organize the FIB with 4,8,12,16 GB of DDR3, and 18 MB of SRAM |
| 21:43.26 | levi | Heh. I have no idea. |
| 21:44.16 | levi | I'm just curious how your idea with R-trees works. |
| 21:44.19 | Sargun | Oh, and it has to be implementable on an FPGA :-) |
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| 21:48.58 | nick125 | Anyone know of a Linux-for-n00bs tutorial or coursework? |
| 21:49.10 | Sargun | uh |
| 21:49.15 | Sargun | RH033? |
| 21:49.23 | nick125 | Sargun: Something online/printable |
| 21:49.23 | bonez44 | does such exist? linux is about diving in, to the deep end of the pool, thrashing around and learning to swim..... |
| 21:49.24 | Sargun | Gentoo Documentation |
| 21:49.31 | Sargun | TLDP |
| 21:49.34 | Sargun | bonez44, Not really.. |
| 21:50.04 | nick125 | bonez44: I'm trying to teach soem students on the basics...you know, cd/rm/ls/etc, command argument --argument, tab/autocomplete, etc. |
| 21:50.08 | nick125 | *some |
| 21:50.18 | nick125 | Maybe a typiing lesson for me |
| 21:50.20 | nick125 | *typing |
| 21:50.21 | nick125 | :P |
| 21:51.04 | bonez44 | ah..... |
| 21:51.12 | Sargun | nick125, IRC? |
| 21:51.31 | bonez44 | I am still trying to convince my wife to let THE COMPUTER DO THE SPACING....she is ever putting a doubl space after a period....despite the computer taking care of that already.... |
| 21:52.46 | nick125 | Sargun: Can't really do IRC.. |
| 21:54.53 | Sargun | That sucks |
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| 21:56.33 | nick125 | 1) it's blocked at the gateway; 2) If they were to get IRC, they'd have to ssh into my server; 3) They'd have my neck if I brought them on IRC; 4) how is IRC going to teach them how to tab complete? |
| 21:58.14 | Sargun | I learned to tab complete in emcnabb's RH033 |
| 21:58.34 | nick125 | Sargun: Is RH033 free and printable? |
| 21:58.37 | Sargun | No |
| 21:58.46 | nick125 | Sargun: Okay, then it doesn't really work. |
| 21:58.46 | Sargun | you could ask emcnabb |
| 21:58.49 | nick125 | hah |
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| 22:08.11 | levi | Crap, there aren't replacement keys available for the broken keys on my iBook. |
| 22:08.45 | nick125 | levi: Can you replace the keyboard? |
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| 22:08.57 | levi | nick125: Yeah. I just bid on one on eBay. |
| 22:09.03 | nick125 | With most laptops, it's just "easier" to replace the keyboard than a single key. |
| 22:09.10 | nick125 | s/key/key(s) |
| 22:09.54 | levi | Well, the reason I can't get replacements for my keys is that my particular model uses a rare scissor mechanism for those keys. Probably replaced because it breaks easily. :P |
| 22:10.29 | nick125 | hah |
| 22:11.38 | Jayce^ | redbeard2, http://www.lollyphile.com/maple-bacon.php |
| 22:11.46 | Jayce^ | maple-bacon lollipops!!!!! |
| 22:12.14 | sjansen | levi: Ah the scissor. I once made the mistake of prying a couple keys off my old laptop, took me a week to get the stupid things back on correctly. |
| 22:13.22 | levi | I can get them on again fine now, as long as they don't break. |
| 22:13.26 | redbeard2 | Jayce^: meat candy! |
| 22:13.32 | levi | My daughter is fond of pulling them off. :P |
| 22:13.35 | Jayce^ | I *must* have some |
| 22:14.13 | sjansen | ~meat Jayce^ |
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| 22:21.17 | nick125 | 16:19 < scoates> nick125: give them root; break something; tell them they can't eat again until it's fixed. |
| 22:21.20 | nick125 | hahah |
| 22:22.17 | tensai | levi: you could always beat her to death, although I wouldn't say I really recommend it. |
| 22:22.19 | tensai | http://www.whptv.com/news/state/story.aspx?content_id=7ff7a064-1c3c-47d9-9544-61ba243ae17a |
| 22:22.44 | tensai | "PHILADELPHIA (AP) - A Philadelphia man convicted of killing his toddler in what prosecutors say was a rage over a broken Xbox was sentenced to 22 1/2 to 45 years in prison. " |
| 22:22.54 | nick125 | You know what's funny about that situation? the server room has two sliding glass doors that lock from the outside, and you are unable to unlock them from the inside. |
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| 22:55.50 | elg | haha, here's a funny email obfuscation paul@paulNEWTONbetts.org_remove_physisist |
| 22:56.09 | elg | and a funny article to go with it http://blog.paulbetts.org/index.php/2007/09/22/a-powerful-ui-programming-metaphor-from-aaron-hillegass/ |
| 22:56.12 | Jayce^ | nice |
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| 23:37.44 | elg | some very interesting posts on this blog |
| 23:37.44 | elg | http://izumi.plan99.net/blog/ |
| 23:37.55 | elg | he measures PHP vs Ruby performance (and a few other languages) |
| 23:38.21 | elg | he's writing an apparently handy "mod_rails" to make rails deployment less of a pain. my biggest beef with rails |
| 23:38.46 | elg | he talks intelligently about memory usage |