| 00:00.19 | atoponce | Lakshmi: if there's activity, i want it to bounce irssi |
| 00:00.43 | Lakshmi | isnt there a setting for that/ |
| 00:00.44 | Lakshmi | ? |
| 00:00.56 | atoponce | /hilight -channels #utahpython -regexp ^[a-zA-Z0-9]+ |
| 00:00.57 | atoponce | just got it |
| 00:07.54 | Lakshmi | i saw red- sublime |
| 00:10.36 | atoponce | heh |
| 00:10.46 | *** join/#utah mrpull-_ (n=misterpu@mail.pollmann.us) |
| 00:10.49 | atoponce | so, squid was doing what is should be doing this whole time |
| 00:10.58 | atoponce | who'd a thunk? |
| 00:12.14 | Tene | atoponce: -regexp .* |
| 00:12.26 | atoponce | .* |
| 00:12.27 | atoponce | ? |
| 00:12.33 | Tene | eh... .? is better |
| 00:14.18 | atoponce | ahh. yeah. good call |
| 00:14.59 | Tene | although what does it do if you just don't mention what to hilight on? |
| 00:15.53 | *** join/#utah emcnabb (n=emcnabb@cpe-069-134-233-156.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 00:16.14 | Lakshmi | tene!! |
| 00:16.26 | atoponce | Tene: you mean if i don't set the hilight? |
| 00:16.36 | Tene | hi Lakshmi |
| 00:16.55 | Tene | atoponce: sed s/-reg.*// |
| 00:17.18 | atoponce | Tene: then, it will complain about what to match |
| 00:17.27 | atoponce | <text> is required |
| 00:17.42 | Tene | 'kay |
| 00:33.31 | sjansen | *sigh* CGI::FormBuilder is such a beautiful thing, if only there were some way to make it AJAXy. |
| 00:34.49 | sjansen | Lakshmi! |
| 00:35.15 | Lakshmi | sjansen hey hey |
| 00:35.38 | sjansen | como estao voces? |
| 00:36.56 | Lakshmi | huh? |
| 00:48.51 | nick125 | Hmm...I wonder what I should do with this monitor I have sitting on my desk...since I'm using my laptop as a laptop, not a desktop...I could hook it up to the p4 prescott under my desk, but I'd be slightly concerned about the thing "mysteriously" catching fire one night. |
| 00:49.37 | sargun_screen | nick125: Heheh. I need to go get more business cards from my office tonight. |
| 00:50.43 | sargun_screen | nick125: I know a monitor that shorted, but the circuit breaker went off with it. |
| 00:50.44 | nick125 | sargun_screen: Any ideas on what I should do? :p |
| 00:50.46 | sargun_screen | then the UPS alarmed. |
| 00:50.49 | sargun_screen | I was fine |
| 00:50.55 | sargun_screen | I woke up at 1 AM |
| 00:51.03 | sargun_screen | These things always tend to happen at night. |
| 00:51.31 | nick125 | lol |
| 00:52.54 | sargun_screen | This equinix guy s quite interesting. |
| 00:52.59 | sargun_screen | He's quite a character. |
| 00:53.04 | sargun_screen | But pretty cool. |
| 00:53.33 | sargun_screen | He's lying too... |
| 00:54.58 | Lakshmi | hi sargun_screen |
| 00:55.45 | Lakshmi | why do you think hes lying? |
| 00:56.45 | sargun_screen | He is. Because I've dealt with his team. |
| 00:57.12 | Lakshmi | oh cool |
| 00:57.17 | Lakshmi | are you having fun at nanog? |
| 00:57.45 | sargun_screen | Sure. |
| 00:58.01 | Lakshmi | do anything cool today? |
| 00:58.08 | Lakshmi | btw: can you PM me ? |
| 00:58.10 | sargun_screen | Sure. |
| 00:58.12 | sargun_screen | No. |
| 00:58.29 | Lakshmi | uh why not? |
| 01:04.13 | atoponce | sjansen: so, you never joined the channel... |
| 01:33.41 | levi | Man, I leave for a while and all sorts of stuff happens. |
| 01:34.50 | Lakshmi | levi like? |
| 01:35.37 | levi | I dunno, just a lot of stuff in scrollback. |
| 01:35.44 | sargun_screen | Someone should actually write BGPd in a language that can do hotswap like erlang, or python |
| 01:38.33 | Lakshmi | why? |
| 01:48.31 | sjansen | atoponce: Yes I did. |
| 01:49.00 | sjansen | Oh, wait, no I didn't. |
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| 02:16.47 | findlay | Lakshmi: hi |
| 02:17.04 | findlay | levi: is there a local place that I can get flex exhaust tubing? |
| 02:17.18 | Lakshmi | findlay hi |
| 02:17.26 | findlay | ~hello Lakshmi |
| 02:17.27 | ibot | ACTION stands up and shouts "HELLO Lakshmi!" |
| 02:26.11 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@216.31.27.110) |
| 02:26.38 | Lakshmi | why am i constantly being ignored. |
| 02:52.06 | levi | findlay: Sorry, I don't know of any in particular. |
| 02:54.10 | sjansen | Lakshmi: ? |
| 02:54.48 | sjansen | Lakshmi: Are you trying to p/m? You have to register with NickServ first. Otherwise, it's just a result of the asynchronous nature of IRC. |
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| 03:08.04 | Tene | any rubyists available? |
| 03:08.25 | Tene | -lart sjansen |
| 03:10.09 | levi | ~lart ruby |
| 03:10.09 | ibot | declares ruby a moron |
| 03:12.12 | *** join/#utah pmcnabb (n=peter@komodo.mcnabbs.org) |
| 03:17.14 | sjansen | Tene: ? |
| 03:17.19 | sjansen | ~punish levi |
| 03:17.21 | ibot | ACTION forces levi to install and use Windows |
| 03:18.13 | pmcnabb | any css experts here? |
| 03:20.48 | levi | ~lart css |
| 03:20.48 | ibot | pulls out a ClueBat (tm) and thwaps css |
| 03:20.53 | sjansen | pmcnabb: I dabble. |
| 03:21.03 | sjansen | ~cluebat levi |
| 03:21.04 | ibot | ACTION pulls out a ClueBat (tm) and thwaps levi. |
| 03:21.06 | pmcnabb | ok.. :) |
| 03:21.09 | pmcnabb | i'm using a css trick here: http://www.redvodkajelly.com/blog/2007/06/15/css-image-rollovers/ but when i try and put two images side by side, the second just goes below the other.. any ideas? |
| 03:21.14 | pmcnabb | here's what i have: http://dpaste.com/35847/ |
| 03:21.59 | sjansen | Is it anywhere live so I can look at it? |
| 03:22.21 | pmcnabb | i'm running the django server locally.. so, unfortunately no |
| 03:24.54 | sjansen | Can't even wget -r ? |
| 03:25.40 | pmcnabb | one sec.. |
| 03:25.46 | sjansen | There's gotta be more to this story. But if you want a quick hack, you could try playing with z-index. |
| 03:29.43 | pmcnabb | sjansen: i put an example up on fyfd.mcnabbs.org |
| 03:29.56 | pmcnabb | those two should be next to each other.. |
| 03:35.57 | sjansen | That's normal behavior for block level elements. You could try "float:left" |
| 03:36.36 | sjansen | Then you'll need to learn about clear:both and pray to $DIETY that IE doesn't teach you about hasLayout. |
| 03:38.58 | pmcnabb | sjansen: ok, thanks.. :) |
| 03:39.08 | pmcnabb | have you seen z-index used in this case before? |
| 03:40.12 | sjansen | Until I saw the page, I misunderstood your questions. No, z-index won't help. |
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| 03:41.24 | pmcnabb | sjansen: btw, the real fyfd site is http://www.fluorescentyellowfoodday.com/ you should celebrate it on Wednesday |
| 03:41.30 | brac | [Welcome to Fluorescent Yellow Food Day] |
| 03:41.44 | sjansen | A couple of points: You really should put some text in that link so it'll degrade better. An id would be more appropriate than a class. |
| 03:43.12 | pmcnabb | just fixed it to id.. |
| 03:44.17 | pmcnabb | disclaimer: i didn't write the original :) i'm simply converting it to a django site |
| 03:48.06 | Tene | sjansen: function calls in ruby are like foo(1), right? |
| 03:49.20 | sjansen | Sure. you can sometimes get away with omitting the (), but it's discouraged. |
| 03:49.56 | Tene | Just confirming that the current cardinal grammar is wrong before changing it. |
| 03:50.26 | sjansen | irb(main):001:0> puts "hello world" |
| 03:50.26 | sjansen | hello world |
| 03:50.26 | sjansen | => nil |
| 03:50.26 | sjansen | irb(main):002:0> puts("hello world") |
| 03:50.26 | sjansen | hello world |
| 03:50.27 | sjansen | => nil |
| 03:51.01 | sjansen | irb is a quick and easy way to test random ruby statements |
| 03:51.37 | Tene | feh |
| 03:51.44 | Tene | testing is for levi |
| 03:53.42 | sjansen | feh? what happened to meh? |
| 03:54.45 | Tene | feh is similar, but with more disdain |
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| 03:59.25 | levi | Indeed, I hate programming without a REPL like irb. |
| 04:00.09 | Tene | ~repl levi |
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| 05:11.06 | herlo | good luck |
| 06:21.28 | Lakshmi | hi hi ! |
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| 15:16.06 | fozzmoo | http://www.local6.com/news/15338180/detail.html |
| 15:16.08 | brac | [Church Challenges Members: Have Sex Every Day - Orlando News Story - WKMG Orlando] |
| 15:16.44 | fozzmoo | They're doing this to combat divorce rates. I hope it doesn't backfire on them. |
| 15:18.38 | ^Migs^ | a sex marathon not backfiring? |
| 15:18.53 | ^Migs^ | probably not for the 30 days, but then what happens after? |
| 15:20.01 | ^Migs^ | I don't know. That seems like an awful lot of sex. |
| 15:25.24 | Supaplex | could be worse. could be 'eat ramen noodles for 30 days' |
| 15:25.35 | sargun_screen | http://humanwrites.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/02/06/familyplanningadvice.jpghttp://humanwrites.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/02/06/familyplanningadvice.jpg |
| 15:25.38 | sargun_screen | err |
| 15:25.40 | sargun_screen | http://humanwrites.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/02/06/familyplanningadvice.jpg |
| 15:27.41 | tensai | Supaplex: or both at the same time |
| 15:28.26 | Supaplex | eat ramen while .. eh nm. |
| 15:28.34 | sargun_screen | heh |
| 15:30.00 | tensai | but I disagree that eating ramen for 30 days would necessarily be bad. there is some good ramen out there. not that 10¢ crap from the supermarket. |
| 15:34.07 | Supaplex | *nod* |
| 15:34.19 | jsmith | tensai: Amen, brother! |
| 15:35.16 | tensai | fresh ramen is sooooo good. If you ever find yourself in onomichi japan, eat LOTS of ramen. you'll be glad you did. |
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| 15:42.21 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
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| 15:54.05 | Keighvin | ~lart Jayce^ |
| 15:54.05 | ibot | stuffs Jayce^ into a shiny new tin can and vacuum seals it |
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| 16:01.59 | Jayce^ | ~lart Keighvin |
| 16:01.59 | ibot | hooks into a hydrant and hoses Keighvin down |
| 16:06.30 | Supaplex | well he does smell better, for now. |
| 16:06.46 | Supaplex | sup Jayce^ :) |
| 16:06.58 | Jayce^ | :) |
| 16:07.15 | Keighvin | Curses, foiled again! |
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| 16:40.56 | sjansen | Linus admits Linux is a virus! http://kerneltrap.org/Linux/Kernel_Evolution |
| 16:41.42 | goozbach | and he escaped Utah yet again |
| 16:41.44 | goozbach | buhaha |
| 16:41.51 | goozbach | you'll never keep me there |
| 16:41.53 | goozbach | buhaha |
| 16:44.54 | *** topic/#utah by sjansen -> Off Topic and Beyond | http://plug.org/irc | Channel log @ http://ibot.rikers.org/%23utah/ | We're proud to report Utah is once again goozbach free! |
| 16:48.51 | sargun_screen | Goozbach is free! Freee! |
| 16:51.06 | Supaplex | s/reslls/resells/ |
| 16:51.27 | sargun_screen | Igor Gashinsky is going to moderate a panel :-( |
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| 16:56.02 | sargun_screen | emcnabb: good morning |
| 17:00.34 | sargun_screen | "Helu" "Helu" "Morning" "How are your krumpets" "A bit tangy" "Silly they'd make them sour?" |
| 17:00.45 | sargun_screen | [heh @ british people] |
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| 17:17.08 | sargun_screen | Anyone available? |
| 17:17.13 | sargun_screen | Or are you all asleep? |
| 17:17.20 | ^Migs^ | I'm here! |
| 17:17.25 | ^Migs^ | pick me! pick me! |
| 17:17.49 | ^Migs^ | :( |
| 17:20.16 | *** join/#utah tuple (n=fugalh@dhcp12.cs.nmsu.edu) |
| 17:20.16 | ibot | tickles tuple with a rose bush |
| 17:20.41 | sargun_screen | Oh, god. The macBook Air is crappy |
| 17:23.01 | findlay | levi: I found some at Checker |
| 17:23.12 | findlay | I'm sure all the automotive stores have them |
| 17:23.40 | findlay | sargun_screen: how do you know? |
| 17:23.44 | atoponce | findlay turning into a mechanic? |
| 17:23.50 | findlay | I'm curious |
| 17:23.56 | sargun_screen | findlay: I just played with one. |
| 17:24.01 | sargun_screen | it feels like a toy. |
| 17:24.01 | atoponce | findlay: don't tell me you've started watching nascar too |
| 17:24.05 | findlay | atoponce: trying to keep my rust bucket running :) |
| 17:24.05 | sargun_screen | I need titanium. |
| 17:24.07 | sargun_screen | :-P |
| 17:24.10 | atoponce | :) |
| 17:24.22 | findlay | sargun_screen: have you tried the epc? |
| 17:24.30 | sargun_screen | I actually want a device which has some weight to it, and doesn't move. |
| 17:24.36 | sargun_screen | findlay: I tried the EPC |
| 17:24.38 | sargun_screen | er |
| 17:24.39 | sargun_screen | EEPC |
| 17:24.46 | findlay | and? |
| 17:24.47 | atoponce | eeepc |
| 17:24.50 | findlay | how does it compare? |
| 17:26.22 | sargun_screen | They are two totally different devices |
| 17:26.42 | tuple | how astute |
| 17:26.46 | RyanE | yeah, I think we knew that. |
| 17:26.59 | sargun_screen | Meaning it doesn't... |
| 17:27.07 | RyanE | so, *how* are they different? |
| 17:27.08 | sargun_screen | Its like comparing apples and oranges. |
| 17:27.10 | findlay | sargun_screen: yay? Can you substantiate my satisfaction with my epc? |
| 17:27.23 | tuple | you just compared the air to heavier laptops |
| 17:27.26 | sargun_screen | MacBook Air has a lot more power, etc.. |
| 17:27.27 | RyanE | man, I gotta adjust my sarcasm-level. It's set too high. Sorry about that. |
| 17:27.29 | tuple | they're completely different in design and goal |
| 17:27.43 | sargun_screen | EEPC is good for thin client entertainment |
| 17:27.43 | findlay | interesting |
| 17:28.10 | sargun_screen | Also, people are having issues with it and power |
| 17:28.39 | RyanE | you mean like A/C, or like 'need more power, Scotty'? |
| 17:29.07 | findlay | ~power |
| 17:29.08 | ibot | power is, like, VI(electric potential difference)X(current) otherwise known as VIm |
| 17:29.29 | findlay | hehe |
| 17:29.35 | findlay | I wonder who set that one ... |
| 17:29.41 | sargun_screen | heh. RAM, CPU, HDD, etc... |
| 17:29.51 | RyanE | I think ibot needs a refresher electronics course. |
| 17:30.20 | findlay | RyanE: it assumes 1st order resistivity, I guess |
| 17:30.31 | findlay | 1st order Ohm's law |
| 17:30.41 | findlay | sargun_screen: what's the HDD size? |
| 17:30.58 | sargun_screen | 64GB |
| 17:32.02 | findlay | what's the battery life? |
| 17:36.10 | *** join/#utah jnbek (n=jnbek@72.8.114.148) |
| 17:47.04 | findlay | man, I love gentoo |
| 17:47.26 | sargun_screen | findlay: Me too. |
| 17:47.31 | findlay | yay |
| 17:47.52 | sargun_screen | findlay: I know. |
| 17:48.00 | tensai | I like flogging myself with rusty chains. maybe someday I'll work up to using gentoo. |
| 17:48.14 | findlay | tensai: you're getting there |
| 17:50.18 | tensai | findlay: the goal of course is to make myself immune to vogon poetry |
| 17:50.59 | tensai | I started by chewing tin foil, then moved to walking on broken glass |
| 17:51.27 | findlay | why is firefox still a resource hog? |
| 17:51.49 | findlay | 3 tabs and it's using .131 of memory |
| 17:51.59 | RyanE | we like to call that 'feature-rich'... :) |
| 17:52.08 | findlay | and that's *after* I just restarted it |
| 17:52.25 | RyanE | findlay: what extensions are you using? Mine gets really laggy if I enable many extensions |
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| 17:52.26 | ibot | tickles tuple with a rose bush |
| 17:52.35 | findlay | 0.053 CPU? Why? It's not doing anything! |
| 17:52.50 | findlay | RyanE: no extensions on the latest beta |
| 17:55.18 | sargun_screen | 09:51 < findlay> 3 tabs and it's using .131 of memory |
| 17:55.29 | sargun_screen | 3 tabs of "Joe's image site" |
| 17:55.53 | RyanE | Joe's high-resolution image site, now with Javascript refresh! |
| 17:56.01 | RyanE | :) |
| 17:56.39 | sargun_screen | hehe |
| 17:57.59 | findlay | heh |
| 17:58.30 | findlay | one is a website I made (no JS!) and two gmails |
| 17:59.16 | sargun_screen | http://nanog.org/streaming.html |
| 17:59.16 | brac | [NANOG Streaming Media Information] |
| 18:00.14 | findlay | ~hug Supaplex |
| 18:00.15 | ibot | ACTION hugs Supaplex |
| 18:04.28 | moriancu1er | anyone use ossec? I just heard about it on TLLTS podcast. It's a Intrusion Detection System. Sounds Pretty cool. |
| 18:04.36 | moriancu1er | http://www.ossec.net/ |
| 18:05.36 | dataw0lf | yes. |
| 18:05.53 | findlay | is that like tripwire? |
| 18:05.54 | dataw0lf | generally I like to brew up my own hids system however. |
| 18:06.34 | findlay | with digital microbiology |
| 18:07.21 | moriancu1er | dataw0lf: what you think of it? |
| 18:07.54 | sargun_screen | Damnit, igor is here. |
| 18:08.18 | dataw0lf | moriancu1er: it's as good as a prebuilt hids system can be, I suppose. |
| 18:08.38 | findlay | ~igor sargun_screen |
| 18:09.22 | tensai | ~language sargun_screen |
| 18:09.23 | ibot | ACTION grabs sargun_screen by the ear and washes sargun_screen's mouth out with soap |
| 18:13.01 | sargun_screen | Meh, I hate it when people here don't lock their laptop. |
| 18:15.00 | levi | Argh, my code is teh busted. |
| 18:16.54 | levi | On the bright side, I got task switching and memory segmentation working in GeekOS last night. |
| 18:18.27 | tuple | any perl programmers still looking for work? |
| 18:19.56 | Jayce^ | yup |
| 18:20.05 | Jayce^ | I know of a couple |
| 18:20.27 | Jayce^ | a couple of them are still employed for a bit though |
| 18:20.40 | tuple | my bro-in-law is about to call me and ask me for some contacts (and/or try to talk me into doing it but I don't have the time) |
| 18:20.56 | Jayce^ | post to plug :-p |
| 18:21.23 | elg | yeah |
| 18:21.29 | elg | irc gets first dibs though :) |
| 18:24.09 | Tene | http://youtube.com/watch?v=nx6v30NMFV8 |
| 18:24.45 | tensai | elg means møøse? |
| 18:25.00 | elg | ya |
| 18:30.39 | tensai | well I saw three of them on saturday |
| 18:30.52 | tensai | elg: thought you'd be curious how your sisters are doing |
| 18:30.52 | elg | and your sister? |
| 18:32.48 | tensai | well she's in california so she's probably ok |
| 18:33.05 | *** join/#utah bbeattie (n=bbeattie@65.48.77.206) |
| 18:33.16 | tensai | she did hit harrison ford with a door though |
| 18:33.39 | elg | that's admirable |
| 18:35.15 | tensai | some people said that he hit first, but it's hard to tell on the video |
| 18:35.26 | findlay | heh |
| 18:36.19 | findlay | ~date |
| 18:36.19 | ibot | It is now 2008.02.19 18:36:19 GMT |
| 18:36.31 | elg | ~ask tene on a date |
| 18:36.57 | tensai | redbeard2: ping |
| 18:41.02 | *** join/#utah ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) |
| 18:41.02 | *** mode/#utah [+o ChanServ] by irc.freenode.net |
| 18:42.11 | findlay | hello ChanServ |
| 18:53.52 | *** join/#utah Aliosa27 (n=Aliosa27@65.89.233.20) |
| 18:56.10 | levi | Yay, I fixed my code. |
| 18:56.48 | levi | Note to self: when working with raw ethernet 'packets', make sure you ask for enough bytes from the socket to cover the ethernet header/footer. |
| 18:57.16 | sargun_screen | hehe |
| 18:57.26 | sargun_screen | levi: What were you doing? |
| 18:57.41 | sargun_screen | Are you doing raw as in layer 2 stuff? |
| 18:57.48 | levi | sargun_screen: Yes. |
| 18:57.49 | sargun_screen | SOCK_RAW? |
| 18:57.54 | *** join/#utah brasto (n=Owner@71-219-135-132.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 18:57.55 | sargun_screen | oh, ok. |
| 18:58.33 | findlay | RAW SOCKS? |
| 18:58.44 | elg | raw dogs |
| 18:58.46 | levi | I've been hacking on an 802.1AS protocol handler. |
| 18:59.11 | sargun_screen | Why? |
| 18:59.13 | findlay | ~find rawdog |
| 18:59.34 | levi | Because writing network protocol stuff is what I do. |
| 19:00.07 | sargun_screen | yeah, but for what application are you dealing with 802.1AS? |
| 19:00.22 | levi | Clock synchronization. |
| 19:00.53 | sargun_screen | Yeah, I'm reading the spec |
| 19:01.26 | levi | My coworkers are on the standards committee. |
| 19:01.37 | sargun_screen | Oh, fun stuff. That sucks. |
| 19:01.44 | sargun_screen | Tell them to push out 100G earlier. |
| 19:01.54 | levi | They're not on /that/ committee. |
| 19:02.09 | findlay | I want 100G's |
| 19:02.13 | sargun_screen | yeah,m but they are in the IEEE |
| 19:02.31 | levi | The IEEE is big, and we have real work to do. :P |
| 19:02.48 | sargun_screen | Hehe "Real work" |
| 19:03.23 | levi | Well, as in implementing the protocols we're helping to standardize in hardware and software reference implementations. |
| 19:07.25 | levi | Heh, this brings a whole new level to semantic document markup: http://salt.semanticauthoring.org/ontologies.html |
| 19:07.28 | brac | [SALT - Semantically Annotated LaTeX] |
| 19:08.55 | redbeard2 | tensai: pong |
| 19:08.56 | jsmith | levi: You've got to be joking, right? |
| 19:09.16 | jsmith | levi: You know, there's this thing called DocBook... :-) |
| 19:09.24 | tensai | redbeard2: I made some oatmeal last night. worked out pretty well. brown sugar, apples, cinnamon. |
| 19:09.34 | *** join/#utah tuple (n=fugalh@dhcp47.cs.nmsu.edu) |
| 19:09.34 | ibot | tickles tuple with a rose bush |
| 19:09.56 | tensai | redbeard2: fed it to my son this morning and he seemed to like it |
| 19:10.03 | redbeard2 | tensai: awesome. i'm actually planning to post recipes tomorrow. i'll be interested to see how close they are. |
| 19:10.23 | Jayce^ | our kids love the oatmeal, but we usually use instant oats now :) |
| 19:10.52 | levi | jsmith: I know that DocBook exists, but I'm not terribly familiar with it. Does it capture the rhetorical ontology like SALT does? |
| 19:11.41 | jsmith | levi: uh... what's "rhetorical ontology" |
| 19:11.47 | Jayce^ | redbeard2, you going to try bulgar wheat? |
| 19:11.59 | levi | jsmith: Apparently you didn't look at the link very closely. |
| 19:12.28 | redbeard2 | Jayce^: i am now. i like bulgar, and i was trying to think of other grains to play with. |
| 19:12.40 | Jayce^ | redbeard2, I've got a book you want to read then |
| 19:12.47 | jsmith | levi: No, it has a much more complete "Document Ontology" though ;-) |
| 19:12.51 | Jayce^ | has a few things to do with the bulgar also |
| 19:12.52 | redbeard2 | Jayce^: which one? |
| 19:13.06 | Jayce^ | can't recall the title, but I'm sure you dont' have it :) |
| 19:13.14 | Jayce^ | it's an emergency prep type book |
| 19:13.21 | levi | jsmith: Well, I think my 'whole new level' statement still stands, then. |
| 19:13.35 | jsmith | levi: Yup, you win |
| 19:13.42 | Jayce^ | tensai, you haven't lived till you've used the coffee maker to do hot dogs, or other boiled food :) |
| 19:16.55 | jsmith | levi: Next you'll be pointing me to http://nepomuk.semanticdesktop.org/xwiki/bin/view/Main1/, the "Social Semantic Desktop" |
| 19:17.28 | levi | jsmith: Hey, show that 'social' stuff to Jesse, not me. :) |
| 19:17.51 | jsmith | levi: I'd rather not. I'm very anti-social |
| 19:18.35 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@dhcp12.cs.nmsu.edu) |
| 19:19.28 | atoponce | ~seen \me |
| 19:19.30 | ibot | \me <n=jstayii@get.your.hosting.from.gv-hosting.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #utah, 180d 1h 3m 4s ago, saying: 'anyone here deal with yui autocomplete before?'. |
| 19:19.56 | levi | irc is too old-school social for him. |
| 19:20.21 | atoponce | i like how kids these days think email is too slow |
| 19:20.35 | sargun_screen | levi: |
| 19:20.35 | sargun_screen | IEEE P802.3ba |
| 19:20.39 | sargun_screen | Go implement that |
| 19:20.47 | RyanE | "hey, how come this coffee tastes like hot dogs?" :) |
| 19:21.10 | levi | sargun_screen: I guess you didn't understand the part where we only work on the protocols we're interested in. |
| 19:21.29 | sargun_screen | Well, become interested in that is what I mean |
| 19:21.51 | tensai | Jayce^: other boiled food, such as? |
| 19:21.52 | RyanE | mmmmm... Hot Cracked Wheat cereal on a cold morning... |
| 19:22.15 | levi | I already said we aren't, and we don't need 100G Ethernet in the near future. |
| 19:22.25 | sargun_screen | levi: do you guys use 10G? |
| 19:22.36 | levi | No, we don't even need 10G right now. |
| 19:22.40 | sargun_screen | wow |
| 19:22.41 | jsmith | Google does |
| 19:22.42 | sargun_screen | you are slow |
| 19:22.45 | RyanE | that'd flood a microcontroller... |
| 19:23.04 | levi | It's not about speed, it's about accuracy. |
| 19:23.06 | sargun_screen | if you had a fast network processor you could take it. |
| 19:23.15 | levi | sargun_screen: You are an idiot. |
| 19:23.19 | sargun_screen | levi: Speed & accuracy? |
| 19:23.42 | sargun_screen | levi: You don't think that network processors are out there that can take 10G? |
| 19:24.01 | levi | sargun_screen: Sure, but they're expensive, and we have no need for them right now. |
| 19:24.25 | RyanE | just like I don't need a firehose to make my oatmeal. |
| 19:24.28 | levi | The technology we're working on replacing is still at 100M. |
| 19:24.32 | sargun_screen | True, but if you're doing high speed video streaming, or video streaming in general, then you need 10G |
| 19:24.39 | RyanE | there, I brought both threads together... :) |
| 19:24.39 | sargun_screen | Wow, That's ugh, painful. |
| 19:24.50 | sargun_screen | levi: Are you replacing it with 1G? |
| 19:25.09 | levi | Well, the standards will work at 100M as well, but our products will all be 1G. |
| 19:25.29 | levi | sargun_screen: You seem to have no idea about the forces involved in the embedded world. |
| 19:25.48 | sargun_screen | Are you doing the MAC on the microcontroller, or do you use an external chip? |
| 19:26.33 | sargun_screen | levi: I'm happy that I don't have to deal with embedded products. |
| 19:26.48 | sargun_screen | The 1G ethernet standard has some nice stuff, like WORKING AUTOCONFIGURE! |
| 19:26.53 | levi | On the other hand, embedded products run the world. :) |
| 19:27.02 | sargun_screen | yeah |
| 19:27.14 | RyanE | and they have a lot of blinky lights. |
| 19:27.20 | sargun_screen | Well, as in programming them, etc.. |
| 19:27.27 | sargun_screen | levi: What's your company name? |
| 19:27.38 | levi | I work for Harman Pro Group. |
| 19:28.01 | RyanE | levi: aren't they the Kentucky Fried Chicken guys? : |
| 19:28.03 | RyanE | :) |
| 19:28.14 | sargun_screen | Don't you have some mad latency problems there |
| 19:28.15 | RyanE | levi: sorry, couldn't resist. |
| 19:28.30 | sargun_screen | [In audio/video] |
| 19:28.59 | levi | sargun_screen: The answer to latency problems is not to crank up the bandwidth. |
| 19:29.23 | sargun_screen | levi: Yeah. Well, how do you do audio over long-haul, like 1 KM |
| 19:29.34 | levi | We have no need to do that. |
| 19:29.45 | sargun_screen | I mean, I can easily see 1KM long cables in audio-distribution. |
| 19:29.52 | sargun_screen | [Example: Movie Theatre] |
| 19:30.07 | levi | You clearly don't know what you're talking about. |
| 19:30.12 | RyanE | why in the world would a movie theatre have a 1KM long cable? |
| 19:30.21 | RyanE | that really makes NO sense whatsoever. |
| 19:30.34 | sargun_screen | RyanE: They store the media in one room, and stream it from there... |
| 19:31.03 | sargun_screen | [This is also 'cause they do telecasts, and other interesting things] |
| 19:31.09 | sjansen | levi: So I see what SALT is, what I'm wondering is: Why? |
| 19:31.54 | jsmith | sjansen: Because we all want semantically rich data, and in this case, semantically rich LaTeX |
| 19:31.56 | RyanE | you're saying the media is 1/2 mile away from the audio equipment? |
| 19:32.53 | RyanE | eh, I should stop trying to understand. |
| 19:33.30 | sjansen | jsmith: Uh huh..... Uhm, why? |
| 19:34.03 | levi | sjansen: Because semantic stuff is GOOD, or something. |
| 19:34.31 | jsmith | Yeah, what levi said. semantic web is tastier |
| 19:35.13 | levi | sjansen: I didn't say it was worthwhile, just that it did, indeed, take semantic markup to the next level. |
| 19:35.23 | sjansen | Don't get me wrong, I'm all for semantic markup when it's useful. I just can't see how SALT is useful. |
| 19:35.23 | Supaplex | http://icwales.icnetwork.co.uk/news/uk-news/page.cfm?objectid=12251019&method=full&siteid=50082 |
| 19:36.24 | levi | sjansen: Well, you could auto-extract the salient points of the argument in the paper, or stuff like that. Anyone using it would be forced to think about how their document fit together, which could improve it. |
| 19:36.57 | sjansen | Nears as I can figure, the only benefits are (1) Force the author to write a better reasoned document. (2) Allow editors without domain specific experience to trim fat. (3) Allow machine reasoning using technology that doesn't exist and probably won't for awhile. |
| 19:39.10 | sjansen | As a didactic tool I could see how it would result in better written documents. In real world application, and I say this based on experience, it runs a real risk of encouraging distracting arguments about minutiae instead of concentrating on content. |
| 19:39.21 | *** join/#utah deanz (n=deanz@c-98-202-133-210.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 19:39.50 | levi | That is a good point. |
| 19:40.08 | levi | I'm fairly sure I'll never use it. I just thought it was kind of interesting. |
| 19:40.13 | herlo | sjansen: did you hear about publican? |
| 19:40.34 | herlo | oh, jsmith has been here, of course you have |
| 19:41.10 | tensai | again, I want to say how cool svk is. in case anybody was on the fence about distributed rcs. |
| 19:41.11 | jsmith | herlo: Of course... but be warned -- sjansen doesn't do DocBook |
| 19:41.19 | goozbach | I'm writing a piece of software called markbook |
| 19:41.26 | jsmith | goozbach: Oh? Details? |
| 19:41.33 | Jayce^ | goozbach is a piece of software |
| 19:41.35 | herlo | jsmith: I know |
| 19:41.38 | goozbach | it's like a cross between markdown and docbook |
| 19:41.49 | goozbach | I have a proof of concept working |
| 19:41.52 | jsmith | goozbach: Does it have all the nice features of DocBook? |
| 19:41.57 | herlo | Jayce^: nope, goozbach is real, but this user is a bot |
| 19:42.00 | goozbach | jsmith: not yet |
| 19:42.06 | goozbach | it's just a proof of concept |
| 19:42.26 | jsmith | goozbach: Will it make PowerPoint slides w/ speaker notes from a text file? |
| 19:42.33 | jsmith | goozbach: Will it generate PDF output? |
| 19:42.40 | jsmith | goozbach: Is it easily brandable? |
| 19:42.42 | goozbach | to the first, maybe |
| 19:42.48 | goozbach | to the second, absolutley |
| 19:43.05 | jsmith | goozbach: Have you seen publican? |
| 19:43.06 | goozbach | it renders to xhtml and has a bunch of xslt to re-format |
| 19:43.16 | goozbach | jsmith: yes, but I HATE xml |
| 19:43.24 | goozbach | markdown is soo much simpler |
| 19:43.25 | elg | tensai: glad to hear it |
| 19:43.25 | jsmith | goozbach: Obviously... |
| 19:43.34 | elg | tensai: how is it making your life awesome today? |
| 19:43.35 | jsmith | goozbach: But markdown is not nearly as semantically rich |
| 19:43.44 | sjansen | goozbach: I'm with you man. A wiki/markdown <--> XML translator is _so_ a good idea. |
| 19:43.56 | jsmith | goozbach: How do you tell the difference between an application, a command, and a menu item in markdown? |
| 19:44.03 | goozbach | you don't |
| 19:44.08 | goozbach | it's mostly for taking notes |
| 19:44.27 | goozbach | the goal is to be powerfull *ENOUGH* not overbearing |
| 19:44.52 | jsmith | sjansen: I still wish Xiphias was open-source |
| 19:44.54 | goozbach | kinda "get out of my way and let me write internal docs" |
| 19:45.26 | goozbach | not "dang what was the tag for that $insert_foo_here" thing |
| 19:45.31 | tensai | elg: commit new features in one branch, work on bug fixes in trunk. I suppose it's not impossible with non-distributed rcs but it's just so dang easy. |
| 19:45.34 | herlo | too bad he can't do anything with it :) |
| 19:45.50 | jsmith | tensai: Nope, not impossible at all with non-distributed rcs |
| 19:46.15 | tensai | jsmith: but the smart merging with svk makes it painless |
| 19:46.24 | sjansen | jsmith: Me too. I have potential buy in to the idea, and it's on my todo list, but not in it's current form. |
| 19:46.24 | goozbach | jsmith: details *WILL* be here: http://projects.friocorte.com/markbook/ |
| 19:46.56 | tensai | and with distributed rcs it's so simple to create branches for whatever I want, so I do |
| 19:47.05 | elg | there's a wide gulf between "not impossible" and what a DVCS gives you |
| 19:47.05 | sjansen | svk smart? |
| 19:47.05 | goozbach | keep in mind, I just started working on this last week |
| 19:47.14 | elg | and it's impossible to convey it to VCS die-hards :) |
| 19:47.22 | jsmith | sjansen: Or I really just need to buckle down and get the DocBook slides stuff working with a nice XSL stylesheet (SVG slides, anyone?) |
| 19:47.27 | elg | your only hope is to hype and get them to use it for a bit |
| 19:47.55 | sjansen | svk is like lipstick on a pig: doesn't make the pig any prettier, in fact it's disturbingly wrong |
| 19:48.05 | elg | hehe |
| 19:48.10 | goozbach | bzr-ng forever! |
| 19:48.11 | jsmith | goozbach: Why re-invent the wheel? Never heard of asciidoc before? |
| 19:48.29 | elg | no, it's a little better than that. but svk is pretty silly in the overall scheme of DVCSes |
| 19:48.36 | elg | it's a gateway drug, and we just got tensai hooked |
| 19:48.58 | tensai | this is true. it was a piece of cake to migrate my svn repo over to svk, since it took exactly 0 steps |
| 19:49.29 | sjansen | next step: git |
| 19:49.47 | goozbach | interesting... |
| 19:49.56 | tensai | sjansen: I'll give it a try sometime |
| 19:50.06 | goozbach | jsmith: hadn't heard of it |
| 19:50.14 | herlo | goozbach: you realize that I am spoofing your dns every week right? |
| 19:50.26 | elg | git would be a fine next step, but I'd go with hg |
| 19:50.29 | goozbach | spoofing my DNS? |
| 19:50.32 | goozbach | heaven forbid! |
| 19:50.49 | herlo | :) |
| 19:50.53 | levi | elg: Are you a hg convert these days? |
| 19:51.04 | elg | yeah, I stopped fighting it |
| 19:51.04 | goozbach | herlo: 99-bottles-of-beer? |
| 19:51.11 | herlo | goozbach: you don't know? |
| 19:51.13 | levi | elg: Which were you using before that? |
| 19:51.15 | elg | I'll always be fond of darcs |
| 19:51.21 | goozbach | or no.bottles-of-beer.com |
| 19:51.22 | goozbach | ? |
| 19:51.27 | elg | but hg is my first choice now |
| 19:51.30 | levi | I couldn't remember if you'd switched to git or not. |
| 19:51.37 | elg | i've used git |
| 19:51.50 | goozbach | herlo: the whole point of 99 bottles is to show overuse of cnames |
| 19:51.50 | elg | i don't know that I'd say I ever switched to it |
| 19:51.53 | levi | I've used darcs and git, but not hg. |
| 19:51.54 | herlo | 99.bottles-of-beer.friocorte.com. 600 IN CNAME 98.bottles-of-beer.friocorte.com. |
| 19:51.55 | herlo | no.bottles-of-beer.friocorte.com. 600 IN A 127.0.0.1 |
| 19:52.09 | goozbach | yeah, spoof no. not 99. |
| 19:52.20 | herlo | goozbach: right, I understand. The point I make is that I just ran dig axfr |
| 19:52.24 | herlo | goozbach: it was a joke |
| 19:52.29 | elg | levi: it's kind of the middle ground. usability that rivals darcs, speed that rivals git |
| 19:52.40 | goozbach | wait! you can do a transfer? |
| 19:52.43 | herlo | yes |
| 19:52.45 | goozbach | oh noes!!! |
| 19:52.51 | herlo | goozbach: that's what I said |
| 19:53.01 | goozbach | how embarrasing, my DNS server isn't secure! |
| 19:53.01 | herlo | why do you think I said I could spoof your site |
| 19:53.13 | goozbach | someone as smart as I am... |
| 19:53.14 | herlo | goozbach: hehe, I was told this was intended :) |
| 19:53.26 | goozbach | that's almost sad. |
| 19:53.40 | goozbach | it's almost too stupid |
| 19:53.50 | goozbach | almost like it was planned or something. |
| 19:53.58 | herlo | like I said |
| 19:54.23 | goozbach | heh |
| 19:54.29 | goozbach | yep |
| 19:54.35 | goozbach | the "real" view is secure |
| 19:54.46 | herlo | :) |
| 19:54.48 | sjansen | goozbach: Just to be clear, you're pulling his leg right? We've got your DNS server listed in our wiki with a note praising your continued benevolence for making it avaiable. |
| 19:55.03 | sjansen | Oh, looks like I typed too slowly. |
| 19:55.13 | herlo | sjansen: ooh, that was fun |
| 19:55.25 | herlo | :-P |
| 19:55.28 | goozbach | I will continue to be benovlent |
| 19:55.39 | goozbach | only if the checks keep clearing. :) |
| 19:55.46 | herlo | ahh, the benovlent goozbach |
| 19:55.58 | herlo | getting rich from our demos |
| 20:00.11 | sjansen | What? How?! |
| 20:00.29 | elg | i want to get rich |
| 20:03.00 | tensai | elg: first step is to stop wasting so much money on unlocked atas. just buy the locked ones and break into them. |
| 20:03.27 | elg | *snicker* |
| 20:03.29 | elg | I don't buy ATAs |
| 20:03.36 | elg | I dig them out of virtual trash cans |
| 20:03.53 | elg | except for my sipura, which is worth its weight in gold |
| 20:05.12 | elg | you have to brush the hair off |
| 20:05.16 | tensai | elg: which sipura? |
| 20:05.21 | elg | 1001 iirc |
| 20:05.51 | tensai | elg: one fxs port and can register two lines? |
| 20:05.56 | elg | yup |
| 20:06.07 | tensai | that's the 1001. cool device. shame they discontinued it. |
| 20:17.57 | *** join/#utah jbellis (n=jbellis@69.60.124.247) |
| 20:22.20 | elg | castro and bush in their last terms. discuss consipracy theories now. |
| 20:26.53 | sontek | I'd take castro over bush |
| 20:27.08 | sjansen | Illuminati, Scientology, Hamburgler |
| 20:27.22 | jsmith | sjansen: compare and contrast? |
| 20:28.03 | sjansen | ~carnivore |
| 20:28.03 | ibot | well, carnivore is essentially a Windows 2000 based packet sniffer and set of filters that the FBI uses |
| 20:28.31 | sjansen | ~feed carnivore |
| 20:28.31 | ibot | ACTION offers carnivore some horseraddish |
| 20:29.18 | jsmith | ~carnivorefodder |
| 20:34.35 | Supaplex | pity |
| 20:34.38 | Supaplex | ~echelon fodder |
| 20:34.38 | ibot | it has been said that echelon fodder is Bush, Uranium, Dirty Bomb, Jihad, Allah Akbar, TNT, Rent a van, assassination , NSA, wiretaps, sleeper cell, suicide bomb, vest, Oklahoma City, Waco, revenge, anthrax, virgins, fuse, great celebration, July 4th, detcord, martyr, timer, backpack, subway. Ruby Ridge |
| 20:40.55 | sjansen | ibot: carnivorefodder is <reply> ~echelon fodder |
| 20:40.56 | ibot | okay, sjansen |
| 20:41.04 | sjansen | ~carnivorefodder |
| 20:41.05 | ibot | ~echelon fodder |
| 20:41.30 | sjansen | ibot: no carnivorefodder is <reply>see also "echelon fodder" |
| 20:41.31 | ibot | okay, sjansen |
| 20:42.09 | sontek | ~sjansen sjansen |
| 20:42.09 | ibot | ACTION tells sjansen good things about sjansen |
| 20:46.31 | jsmith | ~sjansen docbook |
| 20:46.32 | ibot | ACTION tells docbook good things about sjansen |
| 20:47.15 | sontek | submit a patch! |
| 20:49.37 | *** join/#utah moriancumer (n=jared@c-24-10-247-109.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 20:51.12 | sjansen | tbody++ |
| 20:51.25 | sjansen | optgroup++ |
| 20:51.37 | sontek | html-- |
| 21:05.27 | synic | have any of you had a problem like this: I have one drive, with the OS installed and a raid card. Grub says to boot from hd(0,0), which is the OS drive. However, once Linux is done booting, the raid is /dev/sda and the OS drive is /dev/sdb. It's screwing with device-mapper and making the lvm setup not work |
| 21:05.59 | sontek | yeah |
| 21:06.02 | sontek | its the boot order in your bios |
| 21:06.54 | sontek | the first disk defined as the one to boot off of will be (hd0,0) in grub, even if its not actually sda |
| 21:07.05 | synic | I see |
| 21:07.14 | synic | well, device-mapper is confused nonetheless |
| 21:08.01 | sjansen | How is is screwing with the device mapper? LVM info is stored in the parition and should dbe independent of device order. |
| 21:08.45 | synic | I don't know. I didn't have lvm installed when I booted the first time. I installed lvm, created the volume group and the logical volume. I was able to format and mount it just fine. |
| 21:08.47 | sjansen | RAID should be independent of device order too if you're using mdadm without a raidtab. |
| 21:08.57 | synic | installing lvm created a new initrd, which I assume had the device mapper in it |
| 21:09.13 | synic | now when I boot, I get an error about dm-linear: Device lookup failure |
| 21:09.18 | synic | and I can't mount the logical volume |
| 21:09.49 | synic | I get the feeling that if I remove dm from the initrd and load it later, everything will be fine |
| 21:09.58 | synic | but I'm not sure how to create a new initrd without the dm |
| 21:10.45 | sjansen | What distro? It's been awhile since I dug into the various initrd's but I don't remember any static mapping files, it should all be dynamic. |
| 21:10.55 | synic | this is Ubuntu |
| 21:12.26 | sjansen | Could you pastebin "fdisk -l" "blkid" "cat /proc/mdstat" and "pvscan ; pvdisplay"? |
| 21:12.58 | synic | well, it's hardware raid, but yeah |
| 21:13.14 | synic | just a second, I rebooted |
| 21:13.15 | sjansen | Real hardware RAID or fake hardware RAID? |
| 21:13.26 | synic | it's a 3ware card. |
| 21:17.05 | sjansen | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:18.13 | synic | http://www.exaile.org/infos.txt |
| 21:19.24 | synic | yeah, that basically makes no sense at all. |
| 21:20.59 | sjansen | So /dev/sda1 is the only PV in the VG? |
| 21:21.13 | synic | yes. |
| 21:22.30 | synic | yeah, now if I run "lvremove storage" and then try to run "lvcreate -n storage -L 3200GB storage", I get that same error |
| 21:22.37 | synic | dm-linear: Device lookup failed |
| 21:22.41 | sjansen | /dev/sda1 should have system type "Linux LVM" no "Linux", that can confuse init scripts. |
| 21:24.02 | synic | ok, set. |
| 21:24.09 | sjansen | I'm also confused by fdisk -l vs. pvdisplay. It look like /dev/sda is 250GB but /dev/sda1 is 3.18 TB, which makes no sense. |
| 21:24.31 | synic | yeah, the 250GB drive is the non-raid os drive |
| 21:25.32 | sjansen | That makes no sense. You have two drives, both named /dev/sda? |
| 21:25.59 | synic | I swear, they swap back and forth. |
| 21:27.07 | sjansen | Do you have an /etc/lvm/.cache file? Delete it and pvscan ; pvdisplay again. The only potential for switching is during the hand off from GRUB to Linux, once the kernel is in control it should be stable. |
| 21:28.26 | sjansen | Here's a basic run down of the boot process as related to LVM: |
| 21:28.35 | synic | now it's showing as /dev/sdb1 |
| 21:28.37 | synic | bleh |
| 21:29.35 | sjansen | BIOS searches for boot sector by peaking in partitions table. BIOS loads GRUB. |
| 21:30.13 | sjansen | GRUB uses BIOS to find and read /etc/grub.conf. Confusing between Linux and BIOS can result in unbootable system, but this is largely solved. |
| 21:30.50 | atoponce | */boot/grub/menu.lst |
| 21:30.50 | sjansen | GRUB loads kernel using BIOS. Confusion between Linux and BIOS can result in unbootable system, but this is largely solved. |
| 21:30.59 | sjansen | atoponce: thanks, forgot this was Ubuntu |
| 21:31.04 | atoponce | :) |
| 21:32.28 | sjansen | Linux uses root= argument to find modules and init. This is independent of the BIOS. So long as initrd has RAID and LVM drivers, using RAID and LVM for / is fine. |
| 21:32.38 | synic | ok, removing the lv, vg, pv, going into parted and removing the partition, creating a new one, creating the pv, vg, and lv worked. |
| 21:32.46 | synic | I'm sure that when I reboot it'll be broken, though |
| 21:33.49 | sjansen | Init scripts mount everything listed in /etc/fstab. Silly distros hard code device names like "/dev/sda1" and can break. Smarter distros uses labels and are fine. Hard coded RAID and LVM paths are also fine because RAID and LVM is dynamic. |
| 21:35.00 | sjansen | Notice the PV UUID when you pvdisplay? That's used to dynamically reassemble volumes even if drives get reordered. |
| 21:36.09 | sjansen | I doubt this is a BIOS/GRUB issue. Maybe an Ubuntu init script issue, but it shouldn't be a problem if things are initialized correctly. |
| 21:36.23 | sjansen | synic: Did you remember to change the system type to "Linux LVM"? |
| 21:36.43 | sjansen | Reboot and see if it breaks again. |
| 21:36.51 | synic | k |
| 21:37.15 | synic | well, I've tried Etch as well, same problem. |
| 21:37.30 | synic | We've got lots of servers with lots of 3ware cards, never had a problem |
| 21:37.41 | synic | this one is a bit newer, though, and it hates me. |
| 21:38.12 | synic | k, it's booting and I'm getting the "dm-linear: Device lookup failure" error in the messages. |
| 21:38.25 | sjansen | huh |
| 21:38.37 | synic | and, it won't mount. |
| 21:38.58 | synic | dmesg | grep mapper says "device 8:17 too small for target" |
| 21:39.16 | synic | It's like it's trying to use the OS drive or something |
| 21:39.34 | thaddeusq | synic: what options did you use with pvcreate? |
| 21:39.43 | synic | none, just pvcreate /dev/sdb1 |
| 21:40.03 | *** join/#utah shmi (n=chatzill@bc301w14.lab.cob.sjsu.edu) |
| 21:40.13 | shmi | hey hey |
| 21:40.15 | sjansen | Which goes back to the odd pvdisplay claiming the PV was on /dev/sda1... |
| 21:40.40 | synic | brb |
| 21:41.46 | Aliosa27 | dmesg |
| 21:43.15 | Aliosa27 | wrong windo |
| 21:43.17 | Aliosa27 | w |
| 21:43.22 | Aliosa27 | meh |
| 21:43.32 | shmi | anyone really alive here? |
| 21:43.38 | Aliosa27 | i do |
| 21:43.45 | shmi | hey Aliosa27 sup? |
| 21:43.57 | Aliosa27 | nm you? |
| 21:44.54 | lakshmi | in dumb class uber bored |
| 21:45.51 | Aliosa27 | im at work |
| 21:45.55 | Aliosa27 | meh |
| 21:46.02 | sjansen | synic: cat /proc/partitions |
| 21:47.02 | lakshmi | ok back . |
| 21:47.42 | sjansen | lakshmi: We're alive, but you're going to have to do more to provoke conversation. Like insulting Perl, praising PHP or admitting to using emacs. |
| 21:48.00 | dataw0lf | PHP sucks! |
| 21:48.01 | dataw0lf | oh wait, what? |
| 21:48.16 | lakshmi | uhhhh how bout windows applications are gah!! |
| 21:48.16 | sjansen | Python is just PHP without the curly braces. |
| 21:49.57 | sjansen | lakshmi: Nope, no one will disagree. Perhaps you could ask levi about the semantics of social ontologies. Or ask findlay if his rust bucket does justice to Chopin. |
| 21:50.29 | lakshmi | sjansen: how bout linux is lame |
| 21:50.31 | lakshmi | ; |
| 21:50.36 | lakshmi | :-X |
| 21:50.43 | lakshmi | betteR? |
| 21:51.10 | sjansen | You could claim that everyone should vote Huckabee because he favors gun control and gun owners are criminals. |
| 21:51.15 | dataw0lf | sjansen: aw heck naw |
| 21:51.34 | dataw0lf | (regarding Python) |
| 21:52.26 | sjansen | dataw0lf: yeah, not quite believable... it's hard to say anything bad about Python other than "Perl is uglier but more powerful" |
| 21:53.06 | synic | sjansen: interesting. /proc/partitions shows /dev/sdb to have 3417895936 blocks, and /dev/sdb1 is only 1270412254. I created the partition to be the entire size of the drive. |
| 21:53.10 | Tadaka | some one told me once that any language that relies on whitespace for logic is dumb |
| 21:53.27 | sjansen | that person was dumb |
| 21:53.37 | Tadaka | mind you he loves perl on the command line |
| 21:53.41 | sjansen | synic: fdisk -l /dev/sdb |
| 21:53.51 | Tadaka | did some wild stuff with one line perl scripts |
| 21:54.29 | synic | http://www.exaile.org/fdisk.txt |
| 21:54.35 | Tadaka | sjansen: no he wasn't/isn't. but he certainly had his opinions about things |
| 21:54.38 | dataw0lf | well, first, I'd argue that Perl isn't as powerful as Python except for a subset of small areas |
| 21:54.47 | sjansen | Could you pastebin /proc/partitions too? |
| 21:54.55 | dataw0lf | and second anyone who says that Python's enforced whitespace is dumb hasn't used it to any extent. |
| 21:55.14 | synic | http://www.exaile.org/partitions.txt |
| 21:55.15 | dataw0lf | or, possibly, has a mental deficiency. |
| 21:55.17 | dataw0lf | Either / or |
| 21:55.52 | synic | oh boy, a python vs. perl argument in #utah |
| 21:55.54 | sjansen | synic: I trust fdisk more than parted. I also notice the System type isn't set for /dev/sdb1 |
| 21:56.00 | atoponce | wait... python is just php without curly braces? i thought python was develops *as* an oop, where with php, it was an afterthought, and not fully implemented, even |
| 21:56.10 | synic | sjansen: it shows it in parted. |
| 21:56.42 | synic | it also shows it as the correct size |
| 21:57.03 | dataw0lf | atoponce: Ah, indeed. And when they DID adapt a OOP paradigm, it was more in the sense of the Java's programmer's COP sense of OOP, not the transparent (and paradigm agnostic) OOP that Python implements. |
| 21:57.11 | dataw0lf | atoponce: But I think sjansen was just kidding. |
| 21:57.13 | synic | I used parted because it's a GPT partition table, which fdisk hates. |
| 21:57.30 | sjansen | Ah. |
| 21:57.42 | sjansen | Looks like the kernel hates it too. |
| 21:57.46 | atoponce | dataw0lf: sjansen is hard to read with his humour. i think secretly, he dreams about lisp |
| 21:58.21 | Tadaka | I bounce back and forth on what I'll use. I'll use perl for somethings, python for others |
| 21:58.29 | Tadaka | even vbscript, if I'm stuck with it |
| 21:59.20 | dataw0lf | I haven't found anything scripting-wise where I'd be better served using Perl, nowadays. |
| 21:59.43 | dataw0lf | I pretty much gave up on Perl 7 years ago when I started using Python exclusively, and haven't looked back. |
| 22:00.00 | dataw0lf | at least for personal and (most) professional use. |
| 22:00.44 | Tadaka | if I'm spidering web pages, I use perl. I prolly could do it in other languages, but its what I know and it works very well |
| 22:01.15 | levi | . o O ( They're on to Perl 7 now? ) ;) |
| 22:01.33 | Tadaka | hehe |
| 22:01.44 | Tadaka | no, he gave up on it 7 years ago :P |
| 22:02.26 | sjansen | synic: I have limited experience with GPT. But kernel-parameters.txt lists "gpt" as an option to "Forces disk with valid GPT signature but invalid Protective MBR to be treated as GPT." Perhaps booting with that will help. |
| 22:05.25 | sjansen | Python claims to be OOP, and it mostly is, if you ignore the warts. Ruby is real OOP, none of that annoying len() versus str.join() mess. |
| 22:11.56 | dataw0lf | of course it looks almost as bad as Perl |
| 22:12.12 | dataw0lf | and it's flagship library/framework/whathaveyou (Rails) is crap |
| 22:12.22 | dataw0lf | but, y'know, let's not go into specifics |
| 22:12.42 | sontek | ~flog perl |
| 22:12.42 | ibot | ACTION whips perl with a cat-5 o' nine tails |
| 22:12.57 | dataw0lf | us Pythonistas will just nod knowingly when they finally get over themselves and adopt Python |
| 22:13.57 | sontek | any of you guys know how to tell openSUSE 10.3 to start in text install when doing PXE/NFS ? |
| 22:14.03 | sjansen | And the Python "one way to do things" would be? Django? TurboGears? Zope? |
| 22:14.13 | *** join/#utah Migs (n=root@205.122.50.69) |
| 22:14.18 | synic | Why do you find len() annoying? |
| 22:14.32 | Migs | who doesn't? |
| 22:14.48 | dataw0lf | sjansen: It's "one obvious way to do things" actually |
| 22:14.52 | sontek | sjansen: django is a one way to do things, but Pylons gives you more than one way =) |
| 22:15.03 | dataw0lf | and that's why Django is the most "Pythonic" |
| 22:16.17 | dataw0lf | I mean what's Ruby's philosophy? "One crappy (Rails) way to do things, with a bunch of other ways that have hardly any community support and are half-finished?" |
| 22:16.38 | sjansen | Because the only reason Python uses can pretend it's clean is by choosing to focus on their definition of clean. No big deal when all you use is Python, but I'm multi-lingual. I use the best tool for the job and it bugs me that some string functions are in one place, some in another. Some math functions in one place, some in another. The distinction seems to be largely historical chance. |
| 22:17.10 | dataw0lf | It is (largely historical chance). Those types of problems in Python, to me, are minor, however. |
| 22:17.27 | dataw0lf | In comparison to how much you gain. |
| 22:17.36 | sjansen | If you're gong to cut Python slack for a little cruft building up over time, you have to allow Ruby some credit for succeeding despite its smaller community and less mature VM. |
| 22:18.27 | sjansen | Rails may not do everything right, but you've got admit it does many things right or it wouldn't have gotten so much attention. |
| 22:18.29 | dataw0lf | the only reason why Ruby succeeded is because they released a high-profile MVC framework at the same that a bunch of PHP programmers were becoming (justifiably) disillusioned with their language. |
| 22:18.31 | dataw0lf | So give me a break. |
| 22:18.36 | dataw0lf | sjansen: what, like PHP? |
| 22:18.52 | dataw0lf | sure, PHP must do many things right if it gets so much attention |
| 22:19.05 | dataw0lf | Wrong argument in the tech world. |
| 22:19.30 | Migs | http://blog.wired.com/music/2008/02/worlds-largest.html |
| 22:19.30 | levi | Timing is everything. Rails did have great timing. |
| 22:19.35 | dataw0lf | levi: yup. |
| 22:19.41 | dataw0lf | not arguing that. |
| 22:19.41 | sjansen | In a historical context, PHP was a great tool. It was _much_ better than CGI, and less dangerous than Perl. |
| 22:20.27 | levi | Well, that was a long time ago. :) |
| 22:20.29 | dataw0lf | PHP was a great tool for _beginners_ |
| 22:20.38 | dataw0lf | in that it helped them pick up web development easily |
| 22:20.39 | sjansen | Correct. |
| 22:20.43 | dataw0lf | Historically, that's the only thing PHP can claim. |
| 22:20.50 | levi | dataw0lf: Or people who wanted to make a web page, but didn't want to make a career of it. |
| 22:20.56 | dataw0lf | levi: Right. |
| 22:21.11 | dataw0lf | obviously I'm not saying that a programmer should start with PHP as their first language (!!!!) |
| 22:21.16 | dataw0lf | but that's how it ended up |
| 22:21.24 | levi | Except, once they did so, they thought, 'Hey, I could make a career of this!' |
| 22:21.26 | sjansen | Ruby is also great tool for beginners. And it's building a more experienced community, hopefully modeled on Python's. |
| 22:21.29 | dataw0lf | Rails had amazing timing. It has nothing to do with what Rails does correct or not. |
| 22:21.53 | levi | PHP's success was also due to great timing. |
| 22:22.00 | dataw0lf | Indeed. |
| 22:22.12 | dataw0lf | and it's worse than Ruby as a language. |
| 22:22.39 | dataw0lf | so arguing whether a language's popularity reflects it's power / what it does right, that's not a valid argument. |
| 22:22.47 | dataw0lf | we've all seen the test cases on that. |
| 22:22.54 | sjansen | Railss is not J2EE. Rails is not PHP. Rails is MVC, but approachable. And Rails was the one choice, instead of a sea of Python choices. |
| 22:23.13 | sjansen | It's more than just timing. It's marketing too. |
| 22:23.31 | dataw0lf | when Rails came out Python's MVC web framework pool was abysmal. |
| 22:23.51 | dataw0lf | one good thing about Rails you could say is that made a bunch of Python programmers start open sourcing their MVC frameworks. |
| 22:23.54 | levi | sjansen: Yeah, but the 'market' was primed for just the sort of buzz that DHH and team created. |
| 22:24.29 | dataw0lf | DHH and cronies are building their own sub-culture of geeks |
| 22:24.35 | sontek | Pfft, if you aren't using catalyst, you aren't using MVC! |
| 22:24.39 | dataw0lf | OS X using, Ruby on Rails writing, coffee-shop drinking, geeks |
| 22:24.42 | sjansen | There are reasons I choose not to use Rails, but an awfully lot of the complaining I hear sounds more like sour grapes than technical evaluations. |
| 22:24.54 | sjansen | And Guido isn't? |
| 22:25.04 | levi | Man, I still love these headphones. |
| 22:25.25 | dataw0lf | I think Guido has a lot less effect on the Python culture than you think. |
| 22:25.27 | sjansen | lakshmi: See. All you have to do is prime the pump a little. ;-) |
| 22:25.34 | dataw0lf | levi: ah, I'm listening to the In Rainbows remix |
| 22:25.51 | tensai | when I was a kid, there was a corner market and the owner was named Guido. he was cool. |
| 22:25.58 | sjansen | Guido doesn't like lambda expressions, so their crippled in Python. |
| 22:26.15 | levi | You gotta watch out for guys named Guido who happen to carry piano wire with them, though. |
| 22:26.22 | dataw0lf | sjansen: decisions on language paradigms doesn't make all your programmers go to Starbucks and drink a latte. |
| 22:26.30 | dataw0lf | well |
| 22:26.37 | dataw0lf | it may, depending on how much you love lambda expressions. |
| 22:26.41 | sjansen | Guido doesn't like higher order programming, so it isn't allowed to realize it's full potential despite others who try to make it more powerful. |
| 22:27.09 | levi | sjansen: I don't think it's that he doesn't like them, he just doesn't like them enough to change the way Python syntax works. |
| 22:28.09 | sjansen | DHH isn't creating a latte culture, he's taping into it. There aren't any books teaching people (1) Install Rails. (2) Visit Star Bucks. (3) Profit! |
| 22:29.11 | levi | Right, the sort of people who use Macs and drink Lattes are image-conscious already, and Rails has a very image-conscious attitude. |
| 22:29.33 | dataw0lf | that may be, but whether he's tapping into it or creating it, it doesn't make me like the art-school-drop-out-emo-with-the-MBP anymore |
| 22:30.59 | levi | Well, anything that aims to make web development easy is going to attract the art school drop-outs. I mean, hey, web sites are like free money. ;) |
| 22:31.08 | dataw0lf | haha |
| 22:32.28 | levi | And if they can do the coding themselves, they don't have to associate with those uncouth hackers. |
| 22:32.30 | dataw0lf | I had a theory that black-framed glasses must bestow the wearer with magical art/design powers, but, alas, when I tested said theory I still couldn't design my way out of a paper bag. |
| 22:35.13 | dataw0lf | http://www2.tbo.com/content/2008/feb/10/scientology-protesters-take-streets-clearwater/ |
| 22:35.25 | dataw0lf | heh, the article isn't funny, but how many comments have been moderated is. |
| 22:35.46 | mrpull | anybody use Dell's website enough to notice that often their cart doesn't add up correctly? |
| 22:35.50 | sjansen | So returning to the question of Python's imperfections: |
| 22:36.15 | dataw0lf | mrpull: no, I haven't. In the customization form? |
| 22:36.28 | sjansen | Working with regex in Python is a pain compared to Perl and Ruby. |
| 22:36.53 | dataw0lf | sjansen: how so? because you need to compile a regex object? |
| 22:37.03 | sjansen | The awkwardness of process management in Python also makes it more challenging to convert a shell script to Python compared to Perl and Ruby. |
| 22:38.42 | sjansen | And then there's CPAN, the glory and Achilles's heel of Perl. In the 7 years you've been away, the Perl ecosystem has grown even deeper and richer. |
| 22:39.11 | dataw0lf | now there's a proper argument. CPAN is pretty awesome. |
| 22:39.31 | mrpull | they do discounts and lumped together, but show the per item cost in the same column |
| 22:39.34 | dataw0lf | and I have used Perl in the interim, but usually to maintain already existing client scripts |
| 22:39.47 | mrpull | it is odd... and a PITA for purchase requests because it just doesn't add up |
| 22:39.50 | sjansen | doctests are cool, but there are some amazing Test::* modules |
| 22:40.12 | dataw0lf | well doctests isn't the only unit testing framework for Python |
| 22:40.12 | sjansen | (that blow doctest out of the water) |
| 22:40.16 | dataw0lf | Just the simplest |
| 22:43.05 | goozbach | Test::Critic++ |
| 22:43.11 | goozbach | and |
| 22:43.19 | goozbach | Test::Critic::Progressive++ |
| 22:43.31 | sjansen | Catalyst is a PITA to install, but it really is cool. Moose rocks. DBI has always preached sanity in a world mislead by PHP. |
| 22:43.53 | goozbach | both very useful for maintining old sophmoric code. |
| 22:44.11 | goozbach | Critic::Progressive keeps you from getting worse |
| 22:44.42 | sjansen | Higher order programming actually works in Perl, compared to mysteriously dying in Python when presented with corner cases. |
| 22:45.59 | sjansen | In fact, that's the thing I love most about Perl. Over the years, I've learn several languages and paradigms. Most languages have a strong tendency to force you in a certain direction, but with Perl can I use almost everything I've learned from other languages. |
| 22:47.05 | sjansen | (I say almost because I do miss some things like annotations [which are possible but harder], doc strings, etc. And then there's Haskell, my understanding of Haskell isn't deep enough to even contemplate whether it'll apply to Perl.) |
| 22:48.40 | levi | I'm sure someone has written a tutorial about how to write Monads in Perl. |
| 22:49.21 | sjansen | Python == clean code, smart community. Ruby == happiness, but still maturing. Perl == raw power, smart community, declining popularity weeding out the yahoos. There's a time for each. |
| 22:49.28 | levi | http://sleepingsquirrel.org/monads/monads.html |
| 22:49.29 | brac | [Monads in Perl] |
| 22:50.44 | sjansen | Monads aren't the only thing I need to internalize from Haskell. Laziness is another important paradigm. |
| 22:51.20 | Tene | TimToady was talking today in #perl6 about possibly expanding the STM stuff in Perl 6 to allow enforcing lack-of-side-effects and other fun tricks. |
| 22:51.31 | sjansen | Although it shouldn't be hard to apply laziness, given the Perl communities understanding of the virtues of a programmer. ;-) |
| 22:51.37 | levi | Perl 6 has a laziness annotation, doesn't it? |
| 22:51.51 | Tene | STM already has to track interfering side-effects, so not much more... |
| 22:52.37 | Tene | It does, unless 'annotation' means something specific here, then 'maybe' |
| 22:53.12 | levi | Well, I mean a way to say 'this function should be evaluated lazily) or some such thing. |
| 22:53.46 | Tene | Yes. It's 'lazy' |
| 22:54.23 | levi | Whoa, holy punctuation mismatch, Batman! |
| 22:56.21 | Tene | ? |
| 22:57.52 | levi | Look at my previous explanation of what I meant, specifically the ' paired with the ) |
| 22:58.35 | goozbach | ~pester sjansen |
| 22:58.35 | ibot | sjansen: Are we there yet? .. Are we there yet? .. Are we there yet? see http://beverlys.net/LJ/BuggingYou.swf |
| 22:59.55 | goozbach | oh that's great |
| 23:00.55 | mrpull | street fighter 4 looks friggin awesome. anybody else nearly flunk out of school playing SFII? |
| 23:02.03 | mrpull | I probably could have gone further in life if arcades would have died out a little sooner :) |
| 23:04.22 | goozbach | mrpull: I was pretty safe, there wasn't an arcade in my hometown. |
| 23:04.38 | goozbach | but thanks to nintendo, there didn't have to be |
| 23:08.38 | mrpull | can't play pinball on a console... I wish more people still played pinball. |
| 23:10.04 | dataw0lf | mrpull: I think some retirement communities offer this so-called "pinball". I thought they were talking about bowling. |
| 23:10.45 | mrpull | come on... pinball is a geek gamers dream |
| 23:11.08 | mrpull | good cross of hightech, lowtech, physics, reflexes |
| 23:11.26 | dataw0lf | never really played pinball much. |
| 23:12.22 | dataw0lf | I always liked XSF and the spinoffs. |
| 23:13.08 | *** join/#utah fungus (n=olsonl@fungus.broker.freenet6.net) |
| 23:13.12 | mrpull | Super Street Fighter II was my favorite... |
| 23:13.45 | dataw0lf | XSF and other Marvel versus Capcom games and Tekken Tag Tournament were mine. |
| 23:13.58 | mrpull | I bought a 3DO because it had an arcade-perfect translation |
| 23:14.07 | mrpull | that was an expensive console :-/ |
| 23:14.50 | *** join/#utah emcnabb (n=emcnabb@cpe-069-134-233-156.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 23:14.51 | dataw0lf | yea, it was like ~600 retail, right? |
| 23:15.07 | mrpull | yeah, and the games where $70+ too |
| 23:15.16 | dataw0lf | whew |
| 23:15.19 | mrpull | I was (more) stupid then and had deep pockets |
| 23:16.04 | mrpull | should have saved some of that money instead of buying video games and crappy loud stereos |
| 23:16.15 | dataw0lf | I'm on the Xbox 360 with Call of Duty 4 now. I stopped gaming for a long time, but CoD 4 is so good I've been recruited back into the fold. |
| 23:17.37 | dataw0lf | being able to shoot someone through a wall when you see their shadow around the corner? yea, pretty awesome. |
| 23:17.43 | mrpull | I haven't done any gaming since I finished Zelda: Twilight Princess. |
| 23:18.11 | mrpull | I played Guitar Hero III at my sister's the other day... what a stupid, yet incredibly fun game! |
| 23:18.30 | dataw0lf | yea, we have Rock Band and my fiancee is addicted. |
| 23:18.37 | mrpull | my retirement home hasn't bought a current-gen console yet |
| 23:18.41 | dataw0lf | I'm meh about it. |
| 23:18.52 | mrpull | I shoulda got a PS3 instead of the dedicated blu-ray player |
| 23:19.06 | dataw0lf | I bought a PS3 and gave it away at Christmas |
| 23:19.19 | mrpull | how is the drum kit for rock band? that looks to be fun |
| 23:20.07 | dataw0lf | it's pretty decent. |
| 23:20.12 | dataw0lf | hard though. |
| 23:20.34 | mrpull | it seems that is more authentic than the guitar sim |
| 23:20.42 | dataw0lf | oh it definitely is. |
| 23:21.02 | mrpull | I always scoffed and said "why not just learn to play a real guitar" |
| 23:21.29 | mrpull | but it is pretty damn fun to pretend to play along |
| 23:21.51 | dataw0lf | well that's the decision I have to make. I can play the bass pretty well, but I just got a really good acoustic for Christmas (the same time we got Rock Band), so picking between the two is a nobrainer |
| 23:22.20 | dataw0lf | so I just let my fiancee play Rock Band while I practice chords :) |
| 23:22.52 | mrpull | how is the singing part of rockband? |
| 23:23.14 | dataw0lf | pretty decent |
| 23:23.53 | dataw0lf | I dunno, I wouldn't call myself a very skilled singer, but it seemed to be on the money when I've tried it |
| 23:25.25 | levi | mrpull: Because playing a real guitar is hard. :) |
| 23:25.41 | mrpull | agreed. |
| 23:26.21 | mrpull | there was a time I could play a guitar and squawk out some recognizable tunes |
| 23:27.04 | mrpull | now I can play about 3 cord progressions and dream of taking lessons someday when I'm rich and bored |
| 23:27.42 | levi | I went and bought a Squier Stratocaster when they were trying to get rid of the old inventory of Johnson amps here. |
| 23:28.08 | levi | So I can play a couple of chords REALLY LOUD. :) |
| 23:31.39 | mrpull | are the guitar tabs sites still online? back in the day they were trying to take them down. did they survive? |
| 23:31.49 | dataw0lf | some did |
| 23:31.56 | levi | There are still a few of them around. |
| 23:32.28 | mrpull | OLGA... that was the one |
| 23:32.50 | dataw0lf | mxtabs was taken down too, that was my favorite for bass tabs. |
| 23:37.15 | sargun_screen | cya |
| 23:44.17 | nick125 | sargun_screen: hey |
| 23:53.58 | *** topic/#utah by sjansen -> Off Topic and Beyond | http://plug.org/irc | Channel log @ http://ibot.rikers.org/%23utah/ | This space for rent. |
| 23:54.37 | *** join/#utah shadyghost (n=comeseec@c-24-2-67-74.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 23:55.08 | shadyghost | hello ? |
| 23:55.48 | *** part/#utah sjansen (n=sjansen@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com) |
| 23:57.10 | mrpull | what's up shady? |
| 23:57.27 | shadyghost | hi |
| 23:57.57 | shadyghost | i'm looking for a chatting channel for salt lake city, utah do you know of any ? |
| 23:58.45 | mrpull | this room's original intent was for Utah area Free software lovers |
| 23:59.01 | mrpull | but you'll mostly find off-topic semi-utah related discussion |
| 23:59.26 | mrpull | check out the logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23utah/ |
| 23:59.49 | mrpull | you may be bored or intrigued... feel free to stick around. |
