| 00:00.31 | vontrapp | wait. don't answer just yet, i'll b back |
| 00:11.01 | Wegg | Go RON PAUL! |
| 00:11.10 | Wegg | :-) |
| 00:11.15 | Wegg | Thats my daily outburst |
| 00:11.16 | Wegg | carry on. |
| 00:12.48 | sjansen | Wegg: You were 11 minutes too late. |
| 00:13.23 | Wegg | oh |
| 00:13.25 | Wegg | poop |
| 00:20.37 | *** part/#utah bonez45 (n=david_pa@75.144.9.237) |
| 00:58.26 | *** join/#utah lakshmi (n=shnocksh@66-240-25-49.isp.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 01:01.37 | nick125 | anyone here experienced with rrdtool? |
| 01:18.44 | lakshmi | hi |
| 01:19.22 | nick125 | or mrtg even |
| 01:39.10 | rsimpkins | nick125: Yeah. |
| 01:39.58 | nick125 | rsimpkins: How would I configure mrtg to query a script for the information, and in what format do I need to pass the information to mrtg? |
| 01:40.33 | rsimpkins | It has been a while since I've used mrtg only, but in RRD there are ample examples of how to do it. |
| 01:40.54 | *** join/#utah wps (n=wps@208.53.47.251) |
| 01:41.21 | rsimpkins | nick125: http://oss.oetiker.ch/rrdtool/doc/rrdupdate.en.html |
| 01:41.22 | brac | [RRDtool - rrdupdate] |
| 01:41.41 | rsimpkins | timestamp:value:value:value |
| 01:42.40 | nick125 | timestamp being in epoch time? |
| 01:48.45 | rsimpkins | nick125: Yeah, but usually you just use 'N' |
| 01:49.21 | nick125 | ah, for "Now"? |
| 01:50.11 | nick125 | So, I can output N:45 and that's it? |
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| 01:51.49 | ibot | stalks fozzmoo, hiding in the shadows and sorting through his garbage. |
| 01:51.59 | rsimpkins | nick125: Yes. |
| 01:52.07 | nick125 | Awesome. |
| 01:52.09 | nick125 | Thanks rsimpkins. |
| 01:54.06 | fozzmoo | Tene: ping? |
| 01:54.15 | Tene | fozzmoo: pong |
| 01:55.18 | rsimpkins | I think I got plug@plug.org going again. :) |
| 01:55.32 | rsimpkins | /dev/null was chmodded 660 of all things. |
| 01:56.38 | rsimpkins | The flood of e-mail goes forth! :) |
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| 02:39.14 | nick125 | whee, it's snowing! |
| 02:39.56 | nick125 | According to my temperature sensor, it's down to 3C (but it hasn't finished equalizing with the outside temp) |
| 02:40.18 | nick125 | I hope my code handles negatives right. |
| 02:40.29 | nick125 | can mrtg even handle negatives? |
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| 02:59.53 | findlay | hello |
| 03:06.04 | Tene | hello |
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| 03:08.53 | ibot | stalks fozzmoo, hiding in the shadows and sorting through his garbage. |
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| 03:40.13 | rsimpkins | Okay, I'm trying to figure out the whole 'reply-to' debate. |
| 03:40.38 | rsimpkins | Can anyone offer some less biased overview of what it is? |
| 03:40.46 | rsimpkins | Or rather, why people care? |
| 03:41.15 | herlo | rsimpkins: with regard to repyl-to-all vs just reply-to ? |
| 03:41.40 | rsimpkins | herlo: I thought it had to do with the reply-to setting in mailman. |
| 03:41.46 | rsimpkins | reply-to rewritting. |
| 03:41.51 | elg | rsimpkins: here's the skinny |
| 03:42.23 | elg | in the good ol' days of yore, people had real email clients or at least real brains, that would allow them to filter and reply to email lists based on the List-Id header |
| 03:42.54 | herlo | rsimpkins: yeah, that's what I am referring |
| 03:42.55 | elg | Sometimes you'd want to reply to someone off-list, then you'd hit reply. sometimes you'd want to reply to the list, and you'd hit your list-reply button |
| 03:43.27 | elg | then came the wave of people using less enlightened clients, shall we say |
| 03:43.28 | herlo | rsimpkins: http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html |
| 03:44.00 | herlo | then elg doesn't have to explain it all. That's the best argument for not munging reply-to |
| 03:44.05 | elg | they neither filtered their email nor cared to make sure the To header was set correctly when they were replying to list |
| 03:44.11 | herlo | but rather requiring reply-to-all |
| 03:44.40 | elg | but I like explaining! |
| 03:44.56 | herlo | elg: sorry |
| 03:44.58 | herlo | keep going |
| 03:45.03 | elg | the world was still a safe place on many UNIX-related lists, especially LUGs |
| 03:45.10 | rsimpkins | I like elg's better. Less dry. :) |
| 03:45.11 | elg | but for some reason the fairies of sanity bypassed PLUG |
| 03:45.29 | elg | despite all efforts to the contrary, especially those of a certain heroic sysadmin |
| 03:46.13 | rsimpkins | elg: Okay - so how _should_ it be? |
| 03:46.26 | elg | no reply-to munging, definitely |
| 03:46.28 | herlo | rsimpkins: reply-to-all for the list |
| 03:46.30 | rsimpkins | I see it is configured to do no reply-to munging. |
| 03:46.30 | elg | but you'll be tarred and feathered |
| 03:46.39 | herlo | right |
| 03:47.02 | herlo | its a strong opinion of mine too, and I do it even on lists that only have a few people |
| 03:47.29 | rsimpkins | Or we can have reply-to set to 'istealmusic@riaa.org' |
| 03:47.39 | elg | rsimpkins: no, I think it is set to munge reply-to |
| 03:47.39 | herlo | rsimpkins: which reminds me: http://utos.org/mailman/listinfo |
| 03:47.55 | elg | at least it was, and we'd see a flame war if it changed |
| 03:47.59 | herlo | rsimpkins: it is set to munge the replys |
| 03:48.02 | elg | and, based on looking at the last few messages |
| 03:48.06 | rsimpkins | elg: Are you sure? Cause reply-to seems awefully spotty on the list. :) |
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| 03:48.29 | elg | are you seeing any messages in a particular thread where it's not set? |
| 03:48.29 | nick125 | yay, my sensor data collector works |
| 03:48.45 | nick125 | Polling.. |
| 03:48.45 | nick125 | 0:1:0 -> 0.5C |
| 03:49.02 | herlo | rsimpkins: munging |
| 03:49.06 | herlo | for sure |
| 03:49.14 | rsimpkins | elg: I think that is happening is that it isn't stripping reply-tos if they are already set. |
| 03:49.34 | rsimpkins | Only adding them if there isn't one, best I can tell any how. |
| 03:50.15 | rsimpkins | I fail to see how anyone will be upset that we change the reply-to munging. |
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| 03:51.18 | rsimpkins | It is just a change of habit really. My client has a reply-to-list feature - but I don't use it that often. |
| 03:51.42 | elg | rsimpkins: correct, it only adds the reply-to to plug@plug.org |
| 03:51.43 | rsimpkins | Which clients do NOT have a reply to list featre? Which major ones are people freaking out over? |
| 03:51.51 | elg | outlook |
| 03:51.54 | elg | thunderbird maybe |
| 03:52.00 | elg | gmail probably |
| 03:52.23 | rsimpkins | elg: Seems awefully spotty to me then - reply-to only gets written if it doesn't exist. |
| 03:52.27 | rsimpkins | Seems not very consistent. |
| 03:52.29 | elg | look closer, the ones with a reply-to already set now have both set. |
| 03:52.46 | rsimpkins | I'd really prefer to have things be consistent - one way or the other. |
| 03:52.48 | elg | so if you hit reply in outlook, it'll go to both the user's set reply-to and to the list |
| 03:52.53 | elg | which is what some people want |
| 03:53.06 | elg | it's simply honoring the reply-to header that that person has set. |
| 03:53.16 | elg | you do want the list to be polite don't you? |
| 03:53.23 | rsimpkins | elg: Which is why I get spotty behavior. :) I'm using squirrelmail. |
| 03:53.44 | elg | so one of your clients does set reply-to and the other doesn't, and you only get duplicates some of the time? :) |
| 03:55.19 | rsimpkins | Has anyone ever gone through to see how many posters are using outlook? |
| 03:56.51 | elg | probably not |
| 03:57.00 | elg | but the disease is rampant these days |
| 03:57.18 | elg | otherwise sage UNIX die-hards are on the side of reply-to munging |
| 03:57.35 | elg | mostly the last holdouts are the mutt users |
| 03:57.48 | elg | and one other client that has an obvious list-reply button - probably whateer you're using |
| 03:58.16 | rsimpkins | I guess I just have an issue with fence sitting. |
| 03:58.21 | rsimpkins | We are either in, or out. |
| 03:58.33 | elg | we're not fence-sitting |
| 03:58.47 | elg | we always add plug@plug.org to the reply-to list |
| 03:58.49 | elg | no matter what |
| 03:59.00 | rsimpkins | Then maybe I miss understood how it works. Adding a reply to, to the list, only if it doesn't exist sure seems spotty to me. |
| 03:59.13 | rsimpkins | Or rather, not stripping the other reply-to. |
| 03:59.19 | elg | i'm behind you all the way if you want to turn it off |
| 03:59.22 | elg | but don't munge it |
| 03:59.29 | elg | as in, don't remove the original. that's rude |
| 04:00.21 | rsimpkins | so 'reply_goes_to_list' should be 'poster' - right? |
| 04:01.25 | rsimpkins | Well, what I'll do is bring it up at the meeting in a week. |
| 04:01.27 | elg | that's the "no reply-to camp" |
| 04:01.36 | elg | bring your asbestos suit |
| 04:01.46 | elg | mailman admins apparently fall on the side of sanity |
| 04:01.52 | rsimpkins | The people who want to have a say should be at the meeting. :) |
| 04:01.53 | elg | but not quite brave enough to remove the option :) |
| 04:02.03 | elg | rsimpkins: I like that idea |
| 04:02.11 | elg | record attendance if you announce it beforehand :) |
| 04:02.25 | rsimpkins | No, this is about making the core happy. |
| 04:02.46 | rsimpkins | If we have a guy using outlook, who doesn't hardly participate, and doesn't come to the meetings - then he can go post in the ubuntu forums. :) |
| 04:03.26 | rsimpkins | we'll see what people say. |
| 04:03.26 | elg | very good |
| 04:03.29 | rsimpkins | I'd like someone to give me a calm, rational reason for keeping it the way it is. |
| 04:04.00 | elg | does "because I'm lazy" count? you may not get that in so many words but that's probably the core reason |
| 04:04.25 | lakshmi | who read the bible here? |
| 04:04.32 | lakshmi | fozzmoo !! |
| 04:04.34 | elg | everyone but brac |
| 04:04.38 | elg | and ibot |
| 04:04.41 | elg | and chanserve |
| 04:04.44 | elg | man, what heathens |
| 04:04.55 | rsimpkins | Do lazy people come to meetings? Because right now I'm putting in tons of effort to put on great meetings - and it sucks if a lot of people dont' show. :) |
| 04:05.35 | elg | that all depends. one definition of lazy is going to a meeting to figure out $cool_thing instead of reading and thinking about it yourself ;-) |
| 04:05.54 | rsimpkins | Fortunatly I don't think our last several meetings fit in that category. |
| 04:05.58 | elg | btw, i do recommend reading that link he sent |
| 04:06.00 | elg | http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html |
| 04:06.03 | rsimpkins | Nor will the next several. |
| 04:06.23 | rsimpkins | I'm very opposed to 'how-to' meetings. |
| 04:06.32 | rsimpkins | It is why 5 people would show up. |
| 04:06.53 | rsimpkins | Now, so far, we have a '30' people showing up track record. Hopefully we can keep that streak going. |
| 04:07.29 | rsimpkins | how-to's end up being to specific, so - 5 people enjoy it. |
| 04:07.39 | rsimpkins | If the subject is more broad, the interest is as well. |
| 04:07.59 | rsimpkins | it really is all for the individual members though. |
| 04:08.07 | rsimpkins | I had no idea how much effort it took. :) |
| 04:08.30 | rsimpkins | </trap part="mouth"> |
| 04:09.08 | herlo | although I fundamentally disagree with your statement rsimpkins, each LUG definitely has its strong points |
| 04:09.19 | goozbach | so tired |
| 04:09.27 | rsimpkins | herlo: Oh, sorry - i was only refering to PLUG. |
| 04:09.50 | herlo | I think its okay if only 5 people benefit, because being broad seems to me to not be specific enough |
| 04:10.15 | rsimpkins | herlo: I like where you are going with the week-long tutorial classes you are proposing. |
| 04:10.24 | rsimpkins | herlo: Those sound like they would actually be useful. |
| 04:10.26 | herlo | which is the trouble with LUGs, we want them to grow, but they can't grwo with a small audience, so we get broad topics |
| 04:10.50 | herlo | and that appeases those who don't want specifics, but the rest suffer, and drop |
| 04:11.07 | elg | otoh i'm seeing with my very very small lug here that specific meetings draw people out more |
| 04:11.12 | herlo | rsimpkins: yeah, I have fundamental approval from GL for those courses. Trick is, having time to teach them |
| 04:11.17 | elg | alas they're specific topics that I've already seen |
| 04:11.24 | elg | but that's the way of a fledgling lug |
| 04:11.27 | elg | i think lugs grow in stages |
| 04:11.52 | rsimpkins | In the case of PLUG, it is a death sentance to have too specific a topic. |
| 04:12.03 | herlo | I don't agree |
| 04:12.08 | rsimpkins | That's okay. :) |
| 04:12.17 | herlo | I think you are worried that because people don't show up, thats a bad thing |
| 04:12.21 | elg | I don't either, but too simplistic a topic I would agree |
| 04:12.31 | elg | yeah, I only showed up to meetings once every 3 or so months |
| 04:12.32 | rsimpkins | I've seen several other UGs die when they get too advanced, or to 'how-toish' at every meeting. |
| 04:12.38 | elg | not that I didn't want to, but life is so annoying that way |
| 04:12.48 | elg | the list is really the lifeblood |
| 04:13.02 | herlo | to me that just means people want soemthign that's interesting, whether it be specific or not |
| 04:13.03 | rsimpkins | It is. |
| 04:13.57 | rsimpkins | In my opinion if the presentation comes over like a LDP document, then my brain shuts off. |
| 04:14.32 | rsimpkins | I also start thinking 'I took time out of my busy schedule to have a guy recite the README?' |
| 04:15.23 | herlo | right, but that's not what I stated |
| 04:15.28 | elg | a meeting can be very specific without being a recitation of the readme |
| 04:15.33 | rsimpkins | herlo: That's what I meant, sorry. :) |
| 04:15.40 | elg | or the documentation |
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| 04:15.54 | herlo | I said that if its interesting, it doesn't mean it can't be specific or how-toish |
| 04:18.29 | herlo | I quite enjoy detailed how-to LUG meetings as long as the topic interests me and its stuff I've not already done... |
| 04:18.38 | herlo | and even then, I come a lot of the time for the social hour |
| 04:19.18 | herlo | but that's just me |
| 04:19.21 | rsimpkins | herlo: it is those last two qualifications that make it difficult for many people to justify the time. |
| 04:19.43 | rsimpkins | It is a challenge - to say the least. |
| 04:19.49 | herlo | rsimpkins: I'd say that many other LUGs accomplish this every month |
| 04:19.59 | elg | broad-topic no-content meetings are even harder to justify |
| 04:19.59 | herlo | but you might be right |
| 04:20.07 | elg | for me |
| 04:20.08 | elg | anyway |
| 04:20.15 | rsimpkins | elg: I agree. |
| 04:20.18 | elg | though I'm not there anyhow so you can ignore me :) |
| 04:20.20 | herlo | I'm not sayng you are wrong, just that it shouldn't be taboo |
| 04:20.29 | elg | a nice mix seems in order |
| 04:20.38 | rsimpkins | I'm not suggesting overly broad or specifc. A nice balance. And that's the hard part. |
| 04:20.56 | elg | each presentation doesn't have to be perfectly balanced |
| 04:21.03 | rsimpkins | It is much easier if you have a smaller group with a very focused topic. |
| 04:21.14 | elg | you can alternate. one month someone gives a handwavy presentation on OSS in business or something |
| 04:21.23 | elg | the next someone delves into the dark mysteries of emacs |
| 04:21.32 | rsimpkins | elg: no doubt, some presentations will flop, some will be extra good depending on who is in the crowd. |
| 04:21.38 | herlo | ooh, emacs, <HURL> |
| 04:22.05 | elg | the most successful presentations I've given were the secret incanatations of vim |
| 04:23.21 | rsimpkins | I think the MySQL meeting in May will be a good very in-depth topic. |
| 04:24.03 | elg | ironically, I wouldn't think twice about going to a MySQL meeting, unless I was really in the socializing mood |
| 04:24.19 | elg | but like I say, I tend to go to fewer meetings than not |
| 04:25.33 | rsimpkins | I know at some point here we are going to have a flop. It will be intersting to see how that goes. |
| 04:26.03 | elg | maybe. I think it's harder to flop than you think |
| 04:26.27 | elg | geeks in the same room with internet access, magic happens |
| 04:26.53 | rsimpkins | Well, that does help. :) |
| 04:26.56 | elg | even if everyone is bored to tears by the actual presentation |
| 04:27.34 | rsimpkins | However, we have fathers/mothers, religious leaders, managers, etc, etc. People from all backgrounds. Almost the entire group in PLUG is professional based. |
| 04:28.13 | rsimpkins | Very busy people who, with some exceptions, dont' particularly enjoy their time being burned up. |
| 04:29.32 | rsimpkins | Every LUG meeting I've ever been to I ask 'Will this be better than spending time with my family?' or 'Will the benefit of attending outweigh the sacrafice I have to make to show up?' |
| 04:29.51 | elg | yup. c'est la vie |
| 04:30.11 | elg | if you make the meeting so awesome that people decide they must go, then you've taken time from their families! :) |
| 04:30.30 | elg | think of the children |
| 04:30.38 | rsimpkins | I know! And that, right there, is why I think it is important to talk about this. |
| 04:31.14 | elg | now if we can just tie the children into the list reply-to munging debate |
| 04:32.02 | rsimpkins | "THINK OF THE CHILDREN! Come to the PLUG meeting!" |
| 04:32.25 | fozzmoo | I think this is one of the reasons UTOSC will be more family-oriented this year. |
| 04:32.30 | elg | for every reply-to header that gets munged, a child in africa goes hungry |
| 04:32.58 | elg | fozzmoo: you're going to have presentations by all the brothers fugal and brothers mcnabb? |
| 04:33.10 | fozzmoo | That certainly would be cool. |
| 04:33.41 | herlo | I think its lame that we have to weigh LUG meetings vs family. I think there is definitely time for both. |
| 04:33.42 | fozzmoo | We're planning on inviting families on Saturday- we'll have demos of educational programs and games |
| 04:33.54 | fozzmoo | and family-friendly activities. |
| 04:34.16 | elg | herlo: I agree. it's up to the individual |
| 04:34.35 | elg | if they want to spend time with the lug, they can take it out of family or many other possible sources |
| 04:34.41 | elg | their responsibility |
| 04:34.48 | herlo | fozzmoo: yay! |
| 04:35.04 | herlo | fozzmoo: when did you come up with the "family day" idea? |
| 04:35.18 | herlo | oh wait, that was me! <grin> |
| 04:35.30 | fozzmoo | herlo: yeah, yeah, yeah. |
| 04:35.37 | herlo | hahahahahahahahah |
| 04:35.38 | fozzmoo | I can still lead people to believe it was my idea. |
| 04:35.45 | herlo | no you can't |
| 04:35.53 | fozzmoo | Sure I can. You didn't patent it. |
| 04:36.09 | herlo | because at every turn, I will be there on your shoulder, making you feel guilty, it has *nothing* to do with patents |
| 04:36.17 | herlo | :) |
| 04:36.31 | herlo | not that I really need credit or anything |
| 04:36.46 | herlo | but I do now have this irc chat as proof |
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| 04:39.16 | fozzmoo | I really, really, really wish I could convince my boss to stop making us order desktop workstations from Dell. |
| 04:39.36 | nick125 | I really really really wish that rrdtool wasn't retarded |
| 04:39.47 | elg | :) |
| 04:39.48 | fozzmoo | It's only as retarded as you are. :) |
| 04:40.11 | elg | isn't that how it's pronounced? RetaRdeDTOOL? |
| 04:40.29 | nick125 | RRAs are really dumb imho. |
| 04:41.19 | tensai | I'm gonna have to go with fozzmoo on this one |
| 04:41.56 | levi | Good evening. |
| 04:42.08 | levi | I'm up at Deer Valley. |
| 04:42.25 | fozzmoo | levi: you snobby snob. |
| 04:43.14 | levi | fozzmoo: I'm certainly not paying for it. I'm far too cheap for that. :) |
| 04:43.38 | fozzmoo | :) |
| 04:45.12 | levi | I'm at a tech/strategy conference thing, mostly because we're demoing the stuff I've been working on. |
| 04:45.57 | fozzmoo | Who's the audience? |
| 04:51.53 | levi | Bigwigs and engineering groups from the pro group brands. |
| 04:55.33 | fozzmoo | cool. |
| 04:56.18 | levi | I just got awesome news. |
| 04:56.44 | levi | My class is cancelled for tomorrow, so I get to go snowmobiling and have another dinner on the company dime! :) |
| 04:58.59 | levi | Man, I show up and everyone decides it's bedtime or something. |
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| 05:24.37 | rsimpkins | second wave of work here. |
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| 06:06.39 | levi | For ibot or harleypig? ;) |
| 06:08.24 | Wegg | he can do with it whathe wishes. |
| 06:08.29 | Wegg | what he |
| 06:08.56 | levi | Man, I ate too much today. |
| 06:09.13 | levi | And I didn't get my symbol table stuffing done in my parser. :( |
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| 06:10.27 | elg | levi: i watched that video on dsl in lisp |
| 06:10.48 | levi | elg: Where'd you run across it? That's an old one, unless someone just made a new one. |
| 06:10.50 | Sargun | o.O |
| 06:10.51 | levi | And what did you think? |
| 06:10.59 | elg | you gave it to me. I'm a little slow :) |
| 06:11.07 | levi | Heh. |
| 06:11.21 | elg | it was cool, but it reminded me that I don't speak lisp well |
| 06:11.45 | levi | Lisp takes a while to become accustomed to. |
| 06:11.47 | elg | i followed what he was doing, though |
| 06:12.37 | levi | I'm more comfortable in Scheme than Common Lisp, just because the language is so much smaller. But I really like a lot of the stuff that CL has in it. |
| 06:12.58 | elg | the example was perhaps not ideal. it would be easy to take that little DSL and parse it with a scripting language |
| 06:13.53 | levi | Well, it's perhaps not a great language selling point, but it's kind of a "Here's how you approach this problem in a Lispy way" exercise. |
| 06:14.18 | levi | And I think it was mirroring some article that was posted shortly before it was. |
| 06:14.27 | elg | ya |
| 06:15.44 | levi | This may be a better (albeit brief) example of a Lisp DSL: http://xach.livejournal.com/156793.html |
| 06:17.05 | levi | Xach makes lots of cool web toys with lisp. |
| 06:19.05 | levi | Another cool example of Lisp macros is in Practical Common Lisp, where the author develops a library for parsing binary files via a DSL and implements an id3 parser with it. |
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| 06:38.43 | rsimpkins | I am paying too much tax! aRGH! |
| 06:44.36 | levi | rsimpkins: Heh. |
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| 06:46.13 | levi | I am not particularly upset by the amount of tax I pay, though it would certainly be nice if it was lower. |
| 06:46.32 | levi | Just be glad you don't live in one of those Socialist European countries! |
| 06:48.01 | rsimpkins | If I did, I would be one of those ones that benefits, not suffers. :) |
| 06:49.03 | levi | Well, doesn't everyone benefit from the laid-back lifestyle, the free health care, and the ample amounts of vacation time? ;) |
| 06:50.14 | tensai | levi: the last thing I need is to hear about stitches in your eyes! holy cow that makes me queasy. |
| 06:50.29 | levi | tensai: Think how I felt! |
| 06:50.38 | tensai | that's the point. I don't want to think about it |
| 06:50.42 | levi | At one point, I would get queasy telling people about it. |
| 06:50.43 | tensai | ignorance is blisss |
| 06:50.48 | rsimpkins | There are no nerve endings in the eye - right? |
| 06:51.24 | rsimpkins | nope, don't feel a thing. |
| 06:51.32 | levi | rsimpkins: Well, the stitches in your eye feel kind of like you've got bits of dust stuck in it permenantly. |
| 06:51.50 | levi | Especially when one of the buried stitches breaks and the pointy bit sticks up. |
| 06:52.03 | rsimpkins | levi: Yeah, that'd be lame. |
| 06:52.13 | levi | (the eye eventually covers over the stitches with a layer of cells) |
| 06:52.17 | rsimpkins | That happend to me and some stiches from wisdom teeth removal. |
| 06:52.21 | rsimpkins | I about passed out on the floor. |
| 06:52.52 | tensai | I about passed out when I saw the needle for my wife's epidural |
| 06:53.07 | rsimpkins | Really? I didn't mind that one. |
| 06:53.15 | tensai | I am a serious wuss when it comes to medical stuff |
| 06:54.10 | levi | I felt a bit light-headed after my wife's last delivery, which she did with no pain-killers at all immediately after a frantic, scream-filled drive to the hospital. |
| 06:54.57 | tensai | my wife did her second without any pain killers. she said it felt much worse (duh!) but the recovery was much much faster. |
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| 06:59.52 | tensai | sweet. ipv6 is working. fungus eat your heart out. |
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| 08:03.02 | findlay | heh |
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| 14:17.44 | ^Migs^ | haha: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gw1g2yKxb0I |
| 14:20.37 | Sargun | nanana |
| 14:21.38 | Sargun | [not hahaha] |
| 14:21.58 | Sargun | Alright, that was a waste of 2 minutes. |
| 14:27.31 | Sargun | ^Migs^, are all your machines windows machines [in the school]? |
| 14:27.49 | Sargun | Do you have vnc on them, or how hard would it be to get VNC on them |
| 14:27.51 | Sargun | Like isn |
| 14:28.06 | Sargun | Like, doesn't Microsoft windows have a deploy command line script |
| 14:28.07 | Sargun | thing |
| 14:28.21 | Sargun | what would be neat is an array of displays, virtual, or physical |
| 14:28.31 | Sargun | switching between VNC views at random. |
| 14:28.42 | Sargun | and if anyone noticed something odd it they could stop it. |
| 14:28.59 | Sargun | It'd be like a good SciFi movie, only real. |
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| 15:11.20 | Sargun | Just reminding all the Californians out there to vote for Obama today in the polls. |
| 15:11.27 | sargun_screen | yeah, lakshmi! |
| 15:11.28 | Sargun | *cough* that means you lakshmi *cough* |
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| 15:21.00 | atoponce | i voted |
| 15:21.12 | tensai | vote early, vote often |
| 15:21.33 | Sargun | Cool. |
| 15:23.35 | goozbach | I tried to vote |
| 15:23.51 | goozbach | went to the wrong polling place |
| 15:24.03 | goozbach | didn't have time before I had to be to work to go to the right one |
| 15:24.05 | goozbach | :( |
| 15:24.21 | atoponce | you have all day |
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| 15:24.44 | goozbach | yeah |
| 15:24.46 | goozbach | till 7 |
| 15:24.54 | goozbach | I'll just do it on the way home |
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| 15:30.17 | Sargun | ~ping |
| 15:30.17 | ibot | pong |
| 15:30.18 | sargun_screen | uh |
| 15:30.26 | sargun_screen | wtf. |
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| 15:33.07 | elg | my state only has dem caucuses |
| 15:33.18 | elg | repub isn't til june |
| 15:33.36 | elg | i'm independent, i've thought about going to the caucus |
| 15:33.40 | elg | if they take indeps |
| 15:33.50 | tensai | elg: same here. I considering going to the caucuses but I've got other stuff. |
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| 16:41.47 | sjansen | Bah humbug. Trying to solve a Xen problem I find my own answer to a similar question about a year and half ago. |
| 16:42.32 | elg | the worst |
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| 16:43.36 | Sargun | o.O |
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| 16:43.48 | elg | you should really get that eye looked at |
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| 16:47.07 | Sargun | I know. |
| 16:47.12 | Sargun | Its bad, isn't it |
| 16:56.22 | sjansen | thaddeusq: I say you can't go home. |
| 16:57.17 | thaddeusq | sjansen: I've found that people typically don't listen to what you say. |
| 16:58.10 | sjansen | Harumph. |
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| 17:44.57 | dmdavis | ~help onjoin |
| 17:45.15 | dmdavis | ~onjoin -dmdavis |
| 17:45.15 | ibot | dmdavis: ok |
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| 17:47.32 | sjansen | http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/Ive-Got-The-Monkey-Now.aspx |
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| 17:50.43 | ibot | stalks fozzmoo, hiding in the shadows and sorting through his garbage. |
| 17:51.06 | goozbach | fozzmoo: you need to get a restraining order against ibot methinks |
| 17:54.50 | herlo | woohoo f9-Alpha is available |
| 18:03.14 | tensai | herlo: did you see my comment a few days ago about Idaho State LUG wanting to sponsor an open source convention of some sort? |
| 18:03.25 | tensai | herlo: we're just wonderig if we could ask you for some advice |
| 18:04.15 | herlo | tensai: I didn't |
| 18:04.31 | herlo | tensai: we should combine, I'd be happy to help |
| 18:04.40 | tensai | herlo: well, then. good thing I said something. |
| 18:04.42 | herlo | combine as in resources, not events |
| 18:05.28 | tensai | awesome. I think it could be a good event up here. they sponser quite a few things and have decent turnout when they advertise. |
| 18:05.28 | herlo | and its already up at 2008.utosc.com, but not quite fully functional, a couple bugs to work out |
| 18:05.40 | tensai | and they even get money from the university |
| 18:05.49 | herlo | tensai: I'd be glad to throw some resources at it |
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| 18:06.42 | tensai | herlo: that url is 404 :( |
| 18:07.24 | tensai | ah, probably http://code.google.com/p/utos-conman/ |
| 18:09.17 | herlo | oh, right |
| 18:09.17 | herlo | sorry |
| 18:09.23 | herlo | forgot that google wouldn |
| 18:09.37 | herlo | t let me have conman because sourceforge already has a conman project |
| 18:10.57 | herlo | tensai: let me know how I can help |
| 18:12.45 | Sargun | What other network authentication utilities are there that integrate well into RH, that are not LDAP? |
| 18:13.19 | elg | what's wrong with ldap? |
| 18:13.30 | Sargun | uh, its ugly. |
| 18:13.38 | Sargun | and adding/deleting users is a pain |
| 18:13.55 | Sargun | It feels more like editing /etc/passwd directly |
| 18:14.01 | Sargun | and hacking through /etc/pam.d |
| 18:15.27 | elg | 550kbit/s in, 22.5mbit/s out |
| 18:15.39 | Sargun | TCP is crappy? |
| 18:15.42 | Sargun | :-P |
| 18:15.50 | *** join/#utah sinuhe` (n=user@kaptah.deevans.net) |
| 18:16.01 | elg | you think it's ACKs and whatnot? |
| 18:16.46 | RyanE | 550kbits/sec is a lot of ACKing. Bill The Cat-level ACKing... |
| 18:20.04 | Tene | Sargun: run system-config-authentication for the stuff that integrates well with RH. |
| 18:20.35 | findlay | isn't it system-config-authntication-enterprise-edition? |
| 18:20.52 | Sargun | haha |
| 18:21.00 | Tene | system-config-findlay-is-a-hoser |
| 18:21.13 | tensai | elg: time for a packet sniffer |
| 18:21.35 | findlay | commands that rely on tab-completion are much like Java identifiers not expecting you to remember the library names |
| 18:22.18 | findlay | what do packets smell like? |
| 18:23.09 | findlay | I'm not pronouncing an opinion on the matter (I like tab completion), just making an observation |
| 18:23.35 | sjansen | It's Christmas! |
| 18:25.11 | Jayce^ | ~thbbt RyanE |
| 18:26.46 | Tene | findlay: commands that rely on tab-completion? |
| 18:26.51 | sjansen | Programming Perl, Computer Science and Perl Programming, Higher Order Perl, Algorithms With Perl, Perl Best Practices |
| 18:27.07 | Tene | sjansen: all for you? |
| 18:27.34 | elg | -weather kpvu |
| 18:27.35 | brac | 2 hours, 31 minutes ago, on Tue Feb 05 15:57:00 UTC 2008, the wind was calm at KPVU. The temperature was -10 degrees Celsius (14 degrees Fahrenheit), and the pressure was 1024 hPa (30.00 inHg). The relative humidity was 85.2%. There were scattered clouds at a height of 762 meters (2500 feet), broken clouds at a height of 1067 meter (3500 feet) and broken clouds at a height of 2438 |
| 18:27.35 | brac | meters (8000 feet). |
| 18:27.44 | elg | -metar kpvu |
| 18:27.45 | brac | KPVU 051557Z 00000KT 10SM SCT025 BKN035 BKN080 M10/M12 A3026 |
| 18:28.28 | sjansen | Tene: I decided I was extra good. ;-) |
| 18:28.46 | elg | that's a lot of perl |
| 18:30.40 | *** join/#utah mrpull (n=Jake@205.158.184.126.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 18:30.47 | *** topic/#utah by sjansen -> Off Topic and Beyond | http://plug.org/irc | Channel log @ http://ibot.rikers.org/%23utah/ | It's Christmas! |
| 18:32.19 | Tene | sjansen: nice. |
| 18:32.44 | Tene | I still need to get my own copies of HOP and PBP. I enjoyed Fozz's when I was working with him. |
| 18:33.58 | goozbach | :D |
| 18:37.49 | emcnabb | goozbach, new job? |
| 18:39.08 | Jayce^ | Tene, you do... |
| 18:39.33 | Tene | Jayce^: ehat? |
| 18:39.35 | Tene | what? |
| 18:40.03 | Jayce^ | you need to get your own copies of those books |
| 18:42.45 | Tene | Ahh, right. |
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| 18:43.48 | elg | -lart vontrapp |
| 18:44.40 | vontrapp | what sucks about blog comments is, when you comment on a comment, the commenter you're responding to likely will never see it |
| 18:47.51 | elg | yup |
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| 18:52.23 | bonez44 | how long does it take to burn a double layer dvd? |
| 18:53.25 | ^Migs^ | double the time |
| 18:54.47 | bonez44 | what OS , elg? does linux have some good tools for such burning? |
| 18:56.45 | findlay | Tene: so you type in system-config-authentication every time you have to use it? |
| 18:57.04 | Tene | findlay: I tab-complete *everything* |
| 18:57.14 | findlay | no history, no tab completion, no copy and paste, because that would be cheating |
| 18:57.32 | Tene | Are you suggesting that the filesystem is like java identifiers because I tab-complete filesystem paths that I already know? |
| 18:58.02 | findlay | Tene: so do I. I think it's ridiculous if you were expected to type that in every time, thus my reference to expecting tab completion |
| 18:58.19 | Tene | findlay: Most of my students always type it in. |
| 18:58.38 | findlay | Tene: do you not teach tab completion until the 300 level? |
| 18:58.53 | Tene | findlay: I teach it every class, but most of my students never use it. |
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| 18:59.09 | Tene | I talk about and recommend it almost every day, often more. |
| 19:04.42 | elg | linux |
| 19:04.59 | findlay | Tene: the comparison is a java IDE that's right there ready to help you out in writing out your wordy java sentences and java devs expecting that(?) when they name things verbosely is like RH long command names knowing that you are going to have a fancy shell and can tab complete them |
| 19:05.07 | elg | wodim wasn't up to the task though, so I used growisofs |
| 19:07.18 | goozbach | emcnabb: well, it's still new... 6months isn't much |
| 19:08.02 | emcnabb | goozbach, gotcha |
| 19:08.44 | elg | -chat |
| 19:08.47 | brac | And sunny |
| 19:08.51 | elg | -chat |
| 19:08.53 | brac | directories with the sco headquarters. How's that for GNOME a derogatory term of military service in an SSBN |
| 19:10.19 | dataw0lf | http://metaatem.net/selcolor.php |
| 19:25.48 | vontrapp | that's wild |
| 19:29.10 | atoponce | ~bite sjansen |
| 19:29.11 | ibot | ACTION takes a big bite out of sjansen's jugular vein |
| 19:35.26 | elg | ~lart eclipse |
| 19:35.26 | ibot | squishes eclipse like a bug |
| 19:35.29 | elg | ~insult eclipse |
| 19:35.48 | elg | tell me this is a nightmare, and that I'm not really conscious |
| 19:36.23 | elg | eclipse has no way to redirect stdin from a file? wouldn't that be a simple and wise thing to allow? |
| 19:36.52 | elg | or do eclipse users only program toys that you can feed by hand? |
| 19:38.12 | elg | sigh. so do I tell my students to dig down to ~/workspace/lab3/Debug and run ./lab3 < foo, or do I tell them to cut & paste into the console? |
| 19:38.12 | *** join/#utah Shadowwire (n=shadowwi@209-253-33-218.ip.mcleodusa.net) |
| 19:38.21 | Shadowwire | Sup Homies? |
| 19:40.55 | findlay | elg: 'You still use the console?! Isn't that, like 80's technology? Use the GUI, man, not that old unix stuff, I mean, just look at Microsoft' |
| 19:46.43 | elg | the console is best |
| 19:46.59 | elg | but that aside, teaching students to read from stdin is a lot easier than teaching students to open and read from files |
| 19:47.11 | elg | which i will teach them eventually, but not yet |
| 19:48.24 | findlay | elg: well, that response is close to what I've actually heard from people |
| 19:48.51 | *** join/#utah vontrapp (n=von@71-35-238-223.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 19:49.02 | findlay | people who just don't know the power of the command line |
| 19:49.32 | Shadowwire | The what? |
| 19:49.34 | Shadowwire | jk |
| 19:50.01 | elg | oh this is brilliant |
| 19:50.09 | vontrapp | elg is brilliant |
| 19:50.17 | herlo | eh |
| 19:50.18 | elg | when you type ctrl-d in the eclipse console, you do indeed send eof to stdin |
| 19:50.28 | elg | but you also apparently close stdout |
| 19:50.40 | Shadowwire | eclipse? |
| 19:50.45 | vontrapp | close stdout? |
| 19:50.47 | pjw | ls |
| 19:50.57 | elg | as in, the printf on the next line goes to /dev/null |
| 19:51.03 | elg | not to the console |
| 19:51.09 | vontrapp | that's lame |
| 19:51.34 | elg | you're telling me |
| 19:56.20 | dataw0lf | ew, Eclipse |
| 19:56.36 | dataw0lf | for Java dev, I assume? |
| 19:59.32 | elg | no, C |
| 20:00.03 | elg | using cdt |
| 20:01.47 | *** part/#utah mrpull (n=Jake@205.158.184.126.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 20:02.42 | *** join/#utah lakshmi (n=shnocksh@66.240.25.49) |
| 20:06.15 | findlay | hehe |
| 20:06.28 | findlay | ff 3 beta went on a memory gobbling rampage |
| 20:06.44 | findlay | pkill -9 ftw |
| 20:07.19 | findlay | not even Microsoft in all of their GUI goodness can replicate the power of pkill |
| 20:18.55 | RyanE | with great power comes great responsibility. |
| 20:19.52 | findlay | ~pkill elg |
| 20:31.28 | vontrapp | that's why microsoft doesn't have that power |
| 20:32.34 | findlay | heh |
| 20:34.19 | *** join/#utah neybar (n=jalance@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 20:36.16 | *** join/#utah bbeattie (n=bbeattie@65.48.77.206) |
| 20:39.46 | *** join/#utah lakshmi (n=shnocksh@66-240-25-49.isp.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 20:41.33 | Shadowwire | ~kill himself |
| 20:41.34 | ibot | ACTION shoots a magneto-ionized anti-electron gun at himself |
| 20:43.08 | Shadowwire | ~kill p |
| 20:43.09 | ibot | ACTION shoots a ionized positrino gun at p |
| 20:45.16 | Sargun | What do you guys think about the underwater cable failures? |
| 20:45.25 | Sargun | ~action doesn't think |
| 20:45.26 | ibot | ACTION doesn't think |
| 20:45.44 | Sargun | ~pm me hi |
| 20:45.47 | elg | Sargun: they happen when there's water |
| 20:45.48 | Sargun | ~msg me hi |
| 20:45.59 | Sargun | elg, But four cable cuts all in one week |
| 20:46.00 | elg | and cable |
| 20:46.16 | Sargun | All key cables to a specific nation |
| 20:46.26 | elg | is this nation secret? |
| 20:46.29 | Sargun | All key cables to specific nations. |
| 20:46.31 | elg | i haven't been following the news |
| 20:46.35 | Sargun | What is a national secret? |
| 20:46.37 | Sargun | Not really |
| 20:46.43 | elg | so you could tell us which nations |
| 20:46.47 | elg | if you wanted |
| 20:46.49 | Sargun | Oh, Iran |
| 20:46.51 | Sargun | UAE |
| 20:46.59 | Sargun | Egypr |
| 20:47.00 | Sargun | Egypt |
| 20:47.02 | tensai | elg: they're all in the middle east |
| 20:47.15 | elg | in that case, I think it's the act of disgruntled sharks or australian aboriginies |
| 20:47.26 | vontrapp | maybe there's a middle-east hating shark |
| 20:47.33 | Jayce^ | actually, a couple of them weren't cut, most were pulled for power problems |
| 20:47.44 | tensai | there have been a lot of problems with cable theft for copper salvage. I wonder if that might be the issue. |
| 20:48.18 | elg | "hmm, we need lots of copper for our cat-5 cables. <snip> ok, got the cables. hey, where'd the internet go?" |
| 20:48.19 | Sargun | They were fiber |
| 20:48.59 | findlay | I heard the navy uses sharks in covert underwater missions |
| 20:49.20 | findlay | mainly they teach them underwater synchronized disco |
| 20:49.24 | Sargun | o.O |
| 20:49.33 | Sargun | Jayce^, Really, loss of signal? |
| 20:49.34 | rsimpkins | findlay: It confuses the russians. |
| 20:50.23 | Sargun | That usually happens when they get bent too much, break their encapsulation, etc.. |
| 20:50.32 | rsimpkins | I love the russian space shuttle, that looks strangley exactly like the american space shuttle. :) |
| 20:50.46 | rsimpkins | Or the russian 'concorde' that looks exactly like the real concorde. |
| 20:50.55 | Sargun | In order to tap fiber you usually have to cause a small loss of signal |
| 20:51.07 | elg | does the russian 'concorde' still fly around? |
| 20:51.25 | rsimpkins | I don't know if it ever really flew - they just built it to laugh at the French i think. |
| 20:51.33 | Sargun | heheh |
| 20:51.42 | rsimpkins | http://www.gizmohighway.com/history/tu-144.htm |
| 20:51.47 | brac | [Topulev TU-144 History - Gizmo Highway Technology Guide] |
| 20:52.02 | rsimpkins | Oh, it crashed at the paris air show. |
| 20:52.07 | Sargun | heh |
| 20:52.09 | Sargun | nice. |
| 20:52.11 | rsimpkins | So the french had the last laugh I guess. |
| 20:52.27 | rsimpkins | The russian space shuttle is the best tho: http://www.gizmohighway.com/history/buran.htm |
| 20:52.31 | brac | [Buran the Russian Shuttle - Gizmo Highway Technology Guide] |
| 20:53.06 | bbeattie | anyone synced an iphone with gtkpod? |
| 20:53.15 | rsimpkins | They send spies in to steal the plans, then they can spend their time making the design better - rather than doint it from scratch. |
| 20:53.24 | rsimpkins | The russians hate reinventing the wheel. :) |
| 20:53.46 | Shadowwire | Cant say I blame them. |
| 20:54.16 | Sargun | bbeattie, No, but you can sync an n810 with ssh |
| 20:55.32 | Jayce^ | rsimpkins, they also cloned the xb-70 too |
| 20:55.50 | Jayce^ | the first MiG's were all german too |
| 20:55.59 | *** join/#utah bbeattie (n=bbeattie@65.48.77.206) |
| 20:56.34 | rsimpkins | They have a great track record - best spies in the world. |
| 20:57.14 | rsimpkins | Like the russian US embassy that was so bugged, they US had to demolish it and build a new one. |
| 20:57.24 | Jayce^ | hey, the russians main jet engine was a british design that a "diplomat" won off a billiards game bet :) |
| 20:58.02 | rsimpkins | That's awesome. Russian pool shark spies. :) |
| 20:58.49 | rsimpkins | My step-dad interviewed for a job with the US embassy reconstruction project. He was explaining how the listening devices were built *into* the building in the old one. |
| 20:59.56 | rsimpkins | America is getting there... maybe just another 100 years. |
| 21:00.54 | nick125 | Sargun: hey, sup? |
| 21:06.52 | *** join/#utah nobell (n=jared@nat/yahoo/x-efa08fcd5d15369a) |
| 21:09.09 | Sargun | nick125, not much |
| 21:10.10 | tensai | rsimpkins: I thought congress only approved a 15 day extension to the PAA. you think it'll drag out for 100 years? |
| 21:10.19 | Sargun | uh |
| 21:10.29 | Sargun | nick125, you |
| 21:10.32 | nick125 | Sargun: not much |
| 21:10.51 | nick125 | trying to see if I can get the parts to make an arduino-compatible board |
| 21:11.59 | Sargun | nick125, Cool, neato. |
| 21:12.01 | Shadowwire | Someone named "Vadim Vaynor" just ordered from our website. |
| 21:12.12 | rsimpkins | tensai: I think it'll get much worse. You throw all that money at someone, and they come up with reasons to protect their income. |
| 21:12.26 | rsimpkins | tensai: In our case, we are throwing money at the militar, and the DHS. |
| 21:12.52 | elg | mmmmmm, rice-a-roni |
| 21:13.02 | tensai | rsimpkins: you know, that's an excellent point |
| 21:13.24 | Shadowwire | elg, you also have a good point. |
| 21:13.36 | rsimpkins | Protecting the rice bowl - for sure. |
| 21:19.05 | nick125 | Sargun: did your folks vote yet? |
| 21:20.06 | Jayce^ | fozzmoo, you see the huckster got WV? |
| 21:20.18 | fozzmoo | Stupid WVers. |
| 21:20.37 | Jayce^ | by stealing mccains votes (it's a caucus) |
| 21:21.13 | nick125 | w/i3 |
| 21:21.14 | nick125 | er |
| 21:21.40 | Sargun | nick125, Yes Ma'am |
| 21:21.48 | Sargun | nick125, yours |
| 21:21.53 | Sargun | nick125, Mine absentee'd |
| 21:21.59 | nick125 | Sargun: yeah.....mine did |
| 21:23.09 | fozzmoo | I'm beginning to think maybe 2008 is going to be a repeat of 1976 |
| 21:23.26 | lakshmi | hey ya'll |
| 21:23.30 | lakshmi | fozzmoo why? |
| 21:23.52 | Jayce^ | fozzmoo, and the economy will get the same result :) |
| 21:24.17 | fozzmoo | Because in 1976, the republican party nominated a worthless, impotent candidate and the country voted for the worst president in the last 50 years. |
| 21:24.28 | Jayce^ | and suffered because of it |
| 21:27.04 | sjansen | Tabs are evil. |
| 21:27.10 | sjansen | DEATH TO ALL TABS! |
| 21:27.31 | Jayce^ | sjansen, yeah, it's a pretty nasty soda |
| 21:27.38 | nick125 | Sargun: What did tabs ever do to you? |
| 21:27.39 | goozbach | I love TaB |
| 21:27.42 | nick125 | er |
| 21:27.43 | nick125 | sjansen: |
| 21:28.06 | Jayce^ | goozbach, you would |
| 21:28.10 | sjansen | Corruped my YAML, introducing mysterious incorrect behavior in my code. |
| 21:28.32 | sjansen | They're like invisible little land mines. |
| 21:28.41 | Jayce^ | ~tab sjansen |
| 21:29.00 | sjansen | %!expand |
| 21:29.08 | sjansen | er... |
| 21:29.13 | sjansen | :%!expand |
| 21:29.18 | sjansen | ha! |
| 21:30.00 | fozzmoo | :set ts=8 |
| 21:30.33 | goozbach | FYI markdown is freaking awesome! |
| 21:30.34 | Jayce^ | fozzmoo, add a 78 char linewrap to that, and it's a winner |
| 21:30.48 | fozzmoo | markdown? |
| 21:31.10 | goozbach | http://daringfireball.net/projects/markdown/ |
| 21:31.13 | Jayce^ | ~cluestick fozzmoo |
| 21:31.25 | goozbach | no kidding |
| 21:31.34 | goozbach | fozzmoo: you use MT and don't know about markdown? |
| 21:31.41 | goozbach | Wiskey Tango Foxtrot! |
| 21:31.42 | fozzmoo | heh heh. |
| 21:31.45 | Jayce^ | well, you can use textile too :) |
| 21:31.47 | fozzmoo | I do everything in straight HTML in MT |
| 21:31.51 | sjansen | # vim: syntax=yaml sw=4 ts=8 sts=4 expandtab autoindent : |
| 21:31.52 | goozbach | boo |
| 21:32.00 | goozbach | markdown > html |
| 21:32.04 | fozzmoo | I write up my blogs as HTML and then paste it into my MT blog |
| 21:32.23 | goozbach | fozzmoo: I do it too |
| 21:32.26 | goozbach | just using markdown |
| 21:32.26 | fozzmoo | I don't like anything that just inserts <br /><br /> between my paragraphs. |
| 21:32.37 | goozbach | it doesn't |
| 21:32.47 | sjansen | markdown < html |
| 21:32.52 | fozzmoo | I'll give it a shot. |
| 21:33.05 | Jayce^ | sjansen == html3 |
| 21:33.12 | fozzmoo | So, Markdown with smartypants? |
| 21:33.15 | fozzmoo | That's what I should use? |
| 21:33.17 | sjansen | It might be more human, but it's a subset of html. Less powerful and therefor occasionally annoying. |
| 21:33.44 | goozbach | fozzmoo: smartypants is for the fancy quotes and whatnot |
| 21:33.57 | goozbach | I use straight up markdown |
| 21:33.58 | fozzmoo | Right. |
| 21:34.21 | goozbach | I don't want no fancy quotes, my cut and paste would break. |
| 21:34.21 | fozzmoo | I've got vim macros set up to insert “ and stuff like that for me when I'm composing HTML. |
| 21:34.30 | fozzmoo | So I think I'd like smartypants |
| 21:40.56 | elg | sjansen: markdown is just a DSL for generating HTML |
| 21:42.11 | sjansen | elg: I'm fully aware of what markdown is. |
| 21:42.42 | elg | sure you are |
| 21:42.45 | sjansen | Like I said, it's a subset of html. I've tried using. For trivial cases it is nice, but when you need more than trivial content it just gets in the way. |
| 21:42.50 | elg | but you are comparing it directly with html |
| 21:42.57 | elg | it's not a replacement for html. it's a dsl for the common case |
| 21:43.25 | goozbach | for a smarter blogger markdown > HTML |
| 21:43.27 | sjansen | I'm responding to the comment "markdown > html". I disagree. |
| 21:43.46 | elg | for composing basic text, it is |
| 21:43.58 | goozbach | for a super-smarter blogger markdown !> HTML |
| 21:44.05 | goozbach | I like it cause it's simple |
| 21:44.10 | goozbach | like my mind |
| 21:45.01 | vontrapp | markdown i thought made it easy to fall back into html |
| 21:45.10 | goozbach | vontrapp: it does |
| 21:45.27 | goozbach | you can put full HTML into markdown and it's not parsed. |
| 21:45.43 | goozbach | I like doing lists in markdown |
| 21:45.46 | goozbach | 1. foo |
| 21:45.48 | goozbach | 1. foo |
| 21:45.51 | goozbach | 1. bar |
| 21:45.53 | goozbach | 1. baz |
| 21:46.42 | goozbach | is much easier than: <ol><li>foo</li><li>foo</li><li>bar</li><li>baz</li></ol> |
| 21:47.32 | goozbach | I admit there are things you can't do in markdown |
| 21:47.44 | goozbach | but the fact you can embed HTML makes up for that |
| 21:48.32 | rsimpkins | Why can't we just wrap the entire Internet in <pre> and force everyone to write their docs in vim? :) |
| 21:49.19 | fozzmoo | rsimpkins: I love it when you talk dirty. |
| 21:49.47 | rsimpkins | I swear, sometimes we complicate our lives for no good reason. |
| 21:50.27 | Wegg | Everyone go vote for RON! |
| 21:50.29 | Wegg | :-) |
| 21:50.38 | rsimpkins | Wegg: Ron is a looney! |
| 21:50.40 | rsimpkins | :) |
| 21:51.10 | rsimpkins | Just go vote though - seriously. |
| 21:51.18 | Wegg | Nothing loony about wanting to tax us less. :-) |
| 21:51.29 | Wegg | me shows everyone his "I Voted" sticker. |
| 21:51.45 | Shadowwire | I think he has some good ideas. Thats what makes him a looney. |
| 21:51.59 | Wegg | they aren't his ideas. |
| 21:52.04 | rsimpkins | Ideas aren't how politics work. |
| 21:52.09 | Wegg | they are all in the constitution. |
| 21:52.36 | rsimpkins | I think Ron Paul is most likley to push the big red button to launch our nukes. |
| 21:52.59 | vontrapp | that'll happen |
| 21:53.04 | rsimpkins | Because - hey - it just costs too much money to keep those stupid things around - why not get rid of 'em? |
| 21:53.18 | vontrapp | we'd just sell them |
| 21:53.21 | rsimpkins | China seems to be interested in nukes, let's send 'em to them. |
| 21:53.32 | Wegg | he he |
| 21:53.44 | vontrapp | seriously though, since when was being constitutionalist looney |
| 21:54.05 | rsimpkins | Just what we spend on keepign the nuclear fleet ready is insane. It is up to you to decide if we need nuclear weapons or not. |
| 21:54.07 | vontrapp | not just ron paul, i've seen other places where constitutionalist is written off as looney |
| 21:54.48 | vontrapp | people who actually go so far as to say "constitutionalist == looney" |
| 21:54.49 | Wegg | then our country has been taken over by commies. :-) |
| 21:55.04 | Shadowwire | Having nukes isnt nececary. all that maters is that other countrys think we do. |
| 21:55.32 | rsimpkins | It is not a question of IF we will use nuclear weapons, just when. |
| 21:55.42 | vontrapp | and by the time anyone calls that bluff, we're all in fallout shelters anyway |
| 21:55.45 | RyanE | when, again. |
| 21:55.51 | Shadowwire | I might vote for Ron. He wont win but i might vote for him anyway. |
| 21:55.51 | rsimpkins | Right. |
| 21:55.58 | RyanE | if is already blown off the map. we've used 'em. |
| 21:56.06 | vontrapp | Shadowwire: that's the spirit! |
| 21:56.35 | Wegg | GOVOTE SHADOW! |
| 21:56.40 | Wegg | you don't have much time. |
| 21:56.52 | vontrapp | until 8:00 |
| 21:56.58 | Wegg | go go go |
| 21:56.59 | vontrapp | i won't be going till after work |
| 21:57.15 | Shadowwire | Heck, as long as one of the democrats doesnt get in, we should be ok. |
| 21:57.37 | vontrapp | i dunno, mccain looks pretty bad |
| 21:57.44 | rsimpkins | I think vote for Clinton is a vote for the status quo - just with higher taxes. |
| 21:58.25 | vontrapp | i don't care who you vote for, as long as you go out and vote today! (and vote against mccain!!) |
| 21:58.31 | Shadowwire | I think McCain looks just as good as ... Whats his name. |
| 21:58.46 | vontrapp | Cain? |
| 21:58.46 | Shadowwire | mit |
| 21:58.49 | sjansen | Dukakis? |
| 21:58.58 | vontrapp | Duku? |
| 21:58.58 | rsimpkins | Vote Dukakis! |
| 21:59.11 | RyanE | vote Ferraro! |
| 21:59.43 | Wegg | They all suck compared to Ron IMO |
| 21:59.47 | Shadowwire | um... a long time ago, in a campeign far far away. |
| 22:01.08 | *** join/#utah bbeattie (n=bbeattie@65.48.77.206) |
| 22:02.12 | rsimpkins | I think, considering the current playing field, I'd like to see Al Gore step up and mix it up a bit. |
| 22:02.32 | fozzmoo | Yeah- a vote for McCain is pretty much the same as a Clinton or Obama vote as far as where you want the country to go in the next 4 years. |
| 22:03.01 | fozzmoo | Yeah, I'll say this: Election 2008 is the battle of the personalities. |
| 22:03.04 | Jayce^ | only a little less running away, but otherwise, yeah |
| 22:03.17 | fozzmoo | 2000 and 2004 were the "who bores you the least" elections. |
| 22:03.19 | Jayce^ | 4 more years of new programs, amnesty, and overspending |
| 22:03.23 | findlay | I vote for sjansen |
| 22:03.50 | rsimpkins | Seriously, McCain, Clinton, or Gore - who would you pick? |
| 22:04.02 | Jayce^ | you mean obama? |
| 22:04.05 | fozzmoo | Gore, Bush, and Kerry... they're all effective anesthesia. |
| 22:04.17 | findlay | amnesia? |
| 22:04.22 | rsimpkins | Jayce^: I'm not sure obama can get teh superdelegates. |
| 22:05.17 | RyanE | Something like 40% say they'll vote for anyone but Clinton v.2 |
| 22:06.15 | rsimpkins | RyanE: Really? http://leftword.blogdig.net/archives/articles/January2008/25/Superdelegate_Endorsement_List.html |
| 22:06.23 | brac | [Superdelegate Endorsement List] |
| 22:06.33 | rsimpkins | hillary commands a lot of pledged superdelegates. |
| 22:06.51 | rsimpkins | Many of them wouldn't even be there if it weren't for Bill. |
| 22:07.10 | Wegg | bugger all those wankers. Vote for the one that sends the clearest message about the roll of government in our lives. |
| 22:07.17 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@fugalh.NMSU.Edu) |
| 22:07.33 | RyanE | rsimpkins: I heard something along those lines a few months ago, but it was not *delegates*, but a general poll. It's also probably not accurate anymore. OK, enough backpedaling... :) |
| 22:07.43 | rsimpkins | I think you're dealing with a situation where the party leadership is out of line with the party toe. |
| 22:07.48 | Jayce^ | and once again we can all lart the contrived nomination processes of the two main parties.. |
| 22:07.49 | Shadowwire | the government is in our lives more than it should be. |
| 22:07.52 | Jayce^ | but esp the dems |
| 22:08.16 | rsimpkins | I would be shocked if Clinton didn't take it. |
| 22:08.21 | rsimpkins | It would be a major upset. |
| 22:08.25 | RyanE | it's all political theater, especially the whole 'but that state has no delegates' thing... |
| 22:08.33 | rsimpkins | But, CNN needs to sell commercials! :) |
| 22:08.41 | Shadowwire | I see. |
| 22:09.05 | Jayce^ | RyanE, yeah, that's a real joke.. |
| 22:09.34 | rsimpkins | I'm thinking maybe a Clinton Edwards vs. McCain Gulliani war might go down. |
| 22:10.06 | Shadowwire | I think Gulliani would make a great Vice president. |
| 22:10.11 | RyanE | and people are saying that delegates may be given to those states who were denied delegates... Seems that someone could swing (rig) the primary election that way. |
| 22:10.26 | RyanE | and by some people, I mean idiot pundits on TV, so who knows what they really know... |
| 22:10.52 | nobell | I thought Gulliani is out of the race now. |
| 22:10.57 | Shadowwire | Voting is simply the Illusion of control. |
| 22:11.24 | Shadowwire | Thats why I say "vice" president |
| 22:11.51 | RyanE | that would certainly confuse the issue if the candidates were to name running mates *before* the primaries... |
| 22:11.54 | rsimpkins | I think a clinton + edwards ticket will really shake 'em up. |
| 22:12.28 | RyanE | yeah, one that scares 'em, one that bores 'em. |
| 22:12.29 | nobell | when will we hear about the running mates? |
| 22:12.42 | rsimpkins | nobell: After the official nomination, usually. |
| 22:12.50 | Shadowwire | I say confuse the hell out of everybody! |
| 22:12.58 | Shadowwire | ~confuse everybody |
| 22:12.58 | ibot | yes where was our gouda today ? |
| 22:12.59 | RyanE | Shadowwire: yeah, we've noticed. :) |
| 22:13.23 | Shadowwire | Thanks for noticing. |
| 22:14.03 | Shadowwire | People are dropping like flys. |
| 22:14.19 | Shadowwire | ~drop people |
| 22:14.45 | *** join/#utah ti`ocpi (n=Chelle@michmax.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 22:17.39 | sontek | I say Hilary + Gore ticket ;) |
| 22:17.50 | sontek | he can vice both the Clintons! |
| 22:19.54 | Heartsbane | that is what I like about you sontek, just saying the most craziest things to provoke a reaction |
| 22:22.09 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@dhcp12.cs.nmsu.edu) |
| 22:22.13 | sontek | :D |
| 22:22.23 | sontek | Heartsbane: you vote today? |
| 22:24.36 | elg | correction, my state has a dem primary today, not a caucus |
| 22:25.09 | elg | and only registered democrats. so I just watch |
| 22:27.10 | Heartsbane | sontek: going after I pay this bill |
| 22:28.06 | Heartsbane | BTW you are still a leprechaun |
| 22:30.45 | herlo | elg: NM? |
| 22:31.02 | elg | ya |
| 22:37.14 | *** join/#utah lakshmi (n=shnocksh@66-240-25-49.isp.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 22:38.29 | sjansen | Catalyst++ |
| 22:38.54 | fozzmoo | Clinton+Edwards would be interesting. She could shriek and he could do his hair and her hair. |
| 22:39.09 | fozzmoo | sjansen: Definitely. |
| 22:39.33 | RyanE | fozzmoo: only if by 'do his hair and her hair' you mean pay $800 for the two of them to 'hit the salon'. :) |
| 22:39.38 | fozzmoo | heh. |
| 22:39.46 | fozzmoo | Or he could ask "Why?" |
| 22:39.47 | RyanE | depends on the meaning of the word 'do'... |
| 22:39.49 | fozzmoo | He's good at that. |
| 22:39.59 | Wegg | Elvis did ladies hair. |
| 22:40.07 | fozzmoo | Wegg: You're alive! |
| 22:40.11 | RyanE | Elvis *had* ladies hair. |
| 22:40.13 | Wegg | hey |
| 22:40.15 | goozbach | sjansen: I |
| 22:40.17 | goozbach | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:40.21 | findlay | ~convert 1 femptogram to elvis |
| 22:40.21 | Wegg | you go vote fozzmoo? |
| 22:40.25 | goozbach | Catalyst++ |
| 22:40.37 | goozbach | Cisco Catalyst switches++ |
| 22:40.40 | findlay | ~convert 1 decigram to elvis |
| 22:40.51 | RyanE | Apparently, the location for our voting district is different for the primary than our regular location. Is that pretty normal? |
| 22:41.02 | Wegg | crap whats nickserve's command again? |
| 22:41.02 | Jayce^ | RyanE, not too uncommon |
| 22:41.17 | Wegg | nicksrv IDENTIFY <password> ? |
| 22:41.21 | RyanE | my wife was a bit ticked when she showed up at the HS and told her it wasn't there... |
| 22:41.51 | RyanE | so she called me to look it up for her. I'm her own personal portable Google phone interface. |
| 22:41.54 | *** join/#utah tristanbob_ (n=tristanr@oalug/member/tristanbob) |
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| 22:44.45 | vontrapp | Wegg: /msg nickserv ... |
| 22:45.02 | vontrapp | RyanE: mine is different |
| 22:47.01 | Wegg | thats what I was missing |
| 22:47.03 | Wegg | the /msg part |
| 22:47.04 | Wegg | duh |
| 22:47.05 | Wegg | thank you. |
| 22:48.53 | Sargun | ~TAU |
| 22:48.53 | ibot | hmm... tau is the difference between a velocity and c or the freaks' name for phi or a Greek letter |
| 22:49.53 | Sargun | goozbach, |
| 22:50.01 | Sargun | goozbach, Why do you ++ cisco |
| 22:50.20 | fozzmoo | Sargun: He was ++-ing their Catalyst switches. |
| 22:50.28 | Sargun | fozzmoo, Why though? |
| 22:50.34 | Sargun | And which Catalyst |
| 22:50.56 | findlay | a surface catalyst |
| 22:51.15 | findlay | often used with precious metals |
| 22:51.50 | Sargun | /ignore findlay |
| 22:51.59 | findlay | to convert HOx and NOx radicals and CO into more inert, less dangerous species |
| 22:53.11 | findlay | because those radicals can throw out the balance of atmospheric processes |
| 22:53.25 | Jayce^ | mmm, palladium |
| 22:56.15 | *** join/#utah bbeattie (n=bbeattie@65.48.77.206) |
| 22:57.55 | RyanE | Jayce^: stop licking the palladium! |
| 23:00.27 | goozbach | Sargun: pretty easy to use, pretty powerfull. I'm learning a lot, I get to buy them! |
| 23:00.37 | Sargun | Yeah. |
| 23:00.44 | Sargun | I dislike my catalyst switch. |
| 23:00.45 | Sargun | Its alright. |
| 23:00.52 | Sargun | But it can be very very nasty |
| 23:10.17 | rsimpkins | ~convert 1 madonna to elvis |
| 23:12.20 | RyanE | rsimpkins: there's no conversion. One is in units of 'cool', the other in units of 'retch'. |
| 23:12.34 | RyanE | rsimpkins: not in that particular order. :) |
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| 23:33.36 | decriptor | sontek: ping |
| 23:36.32 | Wegg | http://glassbooth.org/ |
| 23:36.34 | brac | [Glassbooth - Quiz to help you choose best 2008 presidential candidate] |
| 23:36.42 | Wegg | I'm 75% similar to Ron Paul. :-) |
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