| 00:06.45 | *** join/#utah Wegg (n=Wegg@andysairplanes.fttp.xmission.com) |
| 00:07.09 | Wegg | Hey. I have a sendmail problem. Anyone up for helping me out? |
| 00:07.21 | Wegg | I'll just ask. :-) |
| 00:07.47 | findlay | dnl ^%&*()%$FSDGHMGfssnfsbbsgb dnl; |
| 00:07.55 | Wegg | I have a CentOS server running the Blue Quartz management system, and I believe it is using sendmail. |
| 00:08.34 | Wegg | When people use my server to send email they get the "cannot relay" message unless I put in their IP address into the "Relay Email From" list. |
| 00:08.49 | Wegg | That. . . sucks because their IP is going to change a lot every time they re-connect. . . |
| 00:08.54 | Wegg | Is there a better way of doing this? |
| 00:11.42 | *** join/#utah graphyx (n=mike@c-67-182-234-135.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 00:12.07 | graphyx | So tell me. Should I go with Vonage or some other SIP gateway + phone equipment? |
| 00:12.18 | Wegg | I dig skype. |
| 00:13.00 | Wegg | CompUSA has Skype phones for 25% off. |
| 00:14.12 | Wegg | graphyx are you a linux dood? |
| 00:14.19 | graphyx | jsmith: if i don't want to have to a system on all the time for asterisk is there a way to just hook into some SIP gateway? Or is the vonage approach pretty good? |
| 00:14.38 | graphyx | Wegg: yes |
| 00:14.56 | Wegg | you can use skype with your PSP now. |
| 00:15.06 | Wegg | all you need is wifi |
| 00:15.12 | Wegg | thats pretty damn geeky cool. :-) |
| 00:15.19 | graphyx | herlo: You do VoIP stuff? |
| 00:15.33 | Wegg | I'm having a sendmail relay problem with my CentOS server. |
| 00:15.36 | graphyx | I don't have psp. |
| 00:15.47 | Wegg | Do you know to configure that stuff? |
| 00:15.53 | graphyx | no |
| 00:16.02 | Wegg | poop |
| 00:20.53 | *** join/#utah fozzmoo (n=fozz@166-70-238-250.ip.xmission.com) |
| 00:20.53 | ibot | stalks fozzmoo, hiding in the shadows and sorting through his garbage. |
| 00:21.06 | dirkus | Wegg: You need to look for some sendmail scripts that turn on relay after POP, or some other authentication method. |
| 00:22.20 | Wegg | ok I'll look around for something like that. |
| 00:22.21 | Wegg | thank you. |
| 00:31.00 | *** join/#utah fozzmo1 (n=fozz@166-70-238-250.ip.xmission.com) |
| 00:31.17 | *** join/#utah shnockshnee (n=shnocksh@66-240-25-49.isp.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 00:33.15 | nick125 | wi3 |
| 00:33.17 | nick125 | er/ |
| 00:39.34 | Wegg | Skype Out is pretty damn amazing. I purchased $25 of credit last year and. . . I use it all the time. And I still have $20.21 left on my account. |
| 00:42.33 | Sargun | o.O |
| 00:43.06 | Wegg | pretty hard to talk through 2 cents a minute |
| 00:43.26 | Wegg | especially when a lot of my friends have skype. :-) |
| 00:43.50 | Sargun | Its proprietary CRAP |
| 00:44.43 | Wegg | ouch |
| 00:44.45 | Wegg | :-) |
| 00:45.22 | Wegg | They have it for Linux, Windows, OSX and even PSP so. . . I think it has its bases covered. |
| 00:45.43 | Wegg | It just likes to EARN those $0.021 cents per minute. :-) |
| 00:46.29 | graphyx | what the heck is $0.021 cents? |
| 00:46.35 | Sargun | haha |
| 00:46.50 | Wegg | uhh |
| 00:47.01 | Wegg | yea. . . remove the cents part. :-) |
| 00:47.05 | Sargun | ah |
| 00:48.10 | nick125 | 0.021 cents is really cheap. |
| 00:48.38 | graphyx | yes indeed. |
| 00:53.06 | findlay | ugh, skype |
| 00:53.25 | findlay | buy service from a SIP or better yet IAX provider |
| 00:53.35 | findlay | you can get service that way for less than 2 cents |
| 00:53.40 | findlay | no fees, etc. |
| 00:53.46 | Tene | findlay: justify "better yet IAX" |
| 00:54.07 | Wegg | I like that I can text chat with people. And send files to people through it. |
| 00:54.37 | findlay | Tene: SIP is teh bloat and gets flustered when it has to transit through NAT |
| 00:55.19 | Tene | findlay: nat is an abomination anyway, and the SIP/RTP trapezoid is an elegant model that fully takes advantage of the inherent peer-to-peer nature of the internet. |
| 00:55.32 | Tene | I thought you were mroe of an idealist than that. |
| 00:56.03 | *** join/#utah redbeard2 (n=redbeard@uslec-63-243-69-198.cust.uslec.net) |
| 00:56.10 | nick125 | Wegg: Why not use Jabber for that, and a real VoIP solution for actual calls? :-) |
| 00:56.13 | maquis | @->-- |
| 00:56.52 | Wegg | cause. . . I didn't know about Jabber. :-) |
| 00:56.58 | Wegg | Isn't that the one Google supports? |
| 00:57.25 | Tene | yeah |
| 00:59.09 | findlay | Wegg: the bad thing about skype is not that the client is prop. but rather that the protocol it uses is singular, nonstandard, and undocumented |
| 00:59.48 | findlay | and that's wickedness in today's OSS world |
| 00:59.58 | findlay | but don't get levi started on that :) |
| 01:00.13 | nick125 | especially considering there are much better open protocols |
| 01:00.20 | Wegg | well. . . I think as long as they make it not suck. . . I'm cool with it. |
| 01:00.56 | findlay | Wegg: I guess as long as interoperability doesn't matter |
| 01:01.45 | Wegg | Things like Microsoft Word bug the crap out of me. |
| 01:02.07 | Wegg | I hate getting sent .doc files from the VERY latest version of Word and be expected to keep up with that. |
| 01:02.15 | Wegg | But this. . . is just voice and files. |
| 01:02.36 | findlay | Tene: whatever. You know that the SIP/RTP triangle is intended to mimic the voodoo of the Bermuda triangle |
| 01:03.04 | Tene | findlay: SIP/RTP TRAPEZOID. It has four corners, like the four corners of one 24-hour day. |
| 01:03.27 | findlay | Wegg: yeah, but voice and files only skype to skype |
| 01:03.50 | findlay | Tene: don't try to confuse the subject with this quadrilateral nonsense |
| 01:05.52 | findlay | Tene: besides, the SIP trapezoid from what I understand is counter to the IPv6 flows scheme |
| 01:05.53 | Tene | ~timecube findlay |
| 01:06.01 | Tene | findlay: explain. |
| 01:07.12 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@fugalh.NMSU.Edu) |
| 01:07.23 | findlay | when you set up a connection between hosts on ipv6 you establish a fixed route setting up MTU and other stuff called a flow |
| 01:09.05 | Tene | I'm uninstalling software on the windows partition of my laptop right now, and the uninstaller was taking a minute or two on one step. |
| 01:09.13 | Tene | The step was "Installnitialize" |
| 01:09.17 | findlay | Tene: I don't think that really says anything against SIP RTP separation I guess |
| 01:09.26 | *** join/#utah beandog (n=steve@gentoo/developer/beandog) |
| 01:09.38 | findlay | beandog! |
| 01:09.44 | Tene | RTP goes straight from one host to the other without needing to go through the server. |
| 01:09.47 | findlay | beandog: ping! |
| 01:09.49 | beandog | findlay! |
| 01:09.51 | Tene | Which is as it should be in most cases. |
| 01:09.55 | beandog | le pong |
| 01:10.16 | findlay | beandog: what's that theater in SL that plays retro movies called? |
| 01:10.24 | beandog | findlay, tower theater |
| 01:10.30 | findlay | thanks |
| 01:10.30 | beandog | they have midnight movies on the weekend |
| 01:10.32 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@fugalh.nmsu.edu) |
| 01:11.02 | beandog | about 900 S and 900 E |
| 01:11.48 | beandog | http://www.saltlakefilmsociety.org/ |
| 01:12.09 | beandog | ooh Groundhog Day |
| 01:12.52 | *** join/#utah tuple (n=fugalh@fugalh.nmsu.edu) |
| 01:12.52 | ibot | tickles tuple with a rose bush |
| 01:26.57 | *** join/#utah dataw0lf (n=stderr@71.94.83.183) |
| 01:31.33 | *** join/#utah decriptor (n=decripto@166-70-62-134.ip.xmission.com) |
| 01:31.47 | decriptor | any word from the hb 139 stuff |
| 01:31.49 | decriptor | ? |
| 01:36.34 | *** join/#utah Sargun (i=nobody@atarack/staff/sargun) |
| 01:44.40 | herlo | decriptor: patience |
| 01:45.19 | decriptor | ? |
| 01:45.21 | decriptor | why |
| 01:46.03 | Sargun | hi |
| 01:46.07 | herlo | decriptor: because we have til the end fo the evening, and the evening is young |
| 01:47.54 | decriptor | almost 7 is still young for a vote? |
| 01:48.09 | Sargun | hehe |
| 01:48.22 | Sargun | Its like 1700 |
| 01:56.06 | *** join/#utah mrpull-lt (n=Jake@vbn.0050420.lodgenet.net) |
| 02:02.08 | herlo | decriptor: no vote takes place |
| 02:02.29 | herlo | its a bill, not a referendum |
| 02:03.03 | Sargun | ~ping |
| 02:03.10 | ibot | pong |
| 02:03.29 | *** join/#utah wps (n=wps@208.53.47.251) |
| 02:22.38 | Sargun | ~ping |
| 02:22.38 | ibot | pong |
| 02:22.44 | Sargun | shnockshnee, hey |
| 02:22.48 | Sargun | sargun_screen, how's it going? |
| 02:22.50 | Sargun | Sargun, Hey! |
| 02:22.54 | Sargun | Wait, is ScytheBlade1 the old one, or Supaplex? |
| 02:23.14 | Sargun | I have 50seconds of latency on IRC! |
| 02:23.16 | Sargun | :-D |
| 02:23.18 | Sargun | 33.6s |
| 02:23.22 | Sargun | ~ping |
| 02:23.22 | ibot | pong |
| 02:23.34 | Sargun | ~ping |
| 02:23.34 | ibot | pong |
| 02:23.46 | Sargun | Meep |
| 02:23.57 | Sargun | http://xbmodder.us/pyportal |
| 02:24.00 | Sargun | http://xbmodder.us/pyportal/welcome.py |
| 02:24.06 | Sargun | hi http://xbmodder.us/pyportal/welcome.py |
| 02:24.25 | Sargun | did something break? |
| 02:26.35 | Sargun | ~kick |
| 02:27.09 | Sargun | someone kill brac |
| 02:27.14 | Sargun | PLEASE |
| 02:38.59 | Sargun | http://xbmodder.us/pyportal/random.py |
| 02:39.13 | Sargun | hey brac http://xbmodder.us/pyportal/random.py |
| 02:40.09 | Sargun | uh |
| 02:40.11 | Sargun | yeah. |
| 02:40.12 | Sargun | stop. |
| 02:40.59 | Sargun | uhh |
| 02:41.00 | Sargun | anyways |
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| 03:07.36 | *** join/#utah tripzero (n=tripzero@c-67-177-46-190.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 03:07.38 | nick125 | Anyone here use Treo Voice Dialing? |
| 03:09.24 | tripzero | nope, does it work? |
| 03:09.56 | nick125 | No idea, that's what I'm wondering |
| 03:10.21 | nick125 | My 755p comes with a free version of it, and I'm pondering giving it a try |
| 03:11.13 | nick125 | I remember trying the trial version on my 700p, and it worked for the main part, except for the fact that every time I'd plug in or unplug my headset, the voice activation would....activate |
| 03:17.39 | levi | nick125: You are certainly obsessed with your treo. |
| 03:17.50 | *** join/#utah Sargun (n=Sargun@atarack/staff/sargun) |
| 03:18.07 | nick125 | levi: Most certainly :-) |
| 03:18.39 | nick125 | Not sure if that's a good thing, but I think so. |
| 03:20.09 | levi | nick125: Good for you, maybe. |
| 03:20.22 | levi | I have a treo 700. It sits in a drawer. |
| 03:20.56 | nick125 | The 700p was pretty horrible |
| 03:22.05 | levi | Oh, wait... no, mine was a 600. |
| 03:22.35 | nick125 | CDMA or GSM? |
| 03:22.47 | levi | CDMA, a Sprint phone. |
| 03:23.02 | nick125 | mmm |
| 03:23.27 | levi | It was nice, but not worth paying the monthly bill for. |
| 03:24.11 | nick125 | It'd be worth it if you had a EvDO device. |
| 03:24.22 | levi | No, probably not. |
| 03:26.34 | Sargun | hey nick125 |
| 03:26.35 | Sargun | sup |
| 03:26.55 | nick125 | Sargun: not much, how about you? |
| 03:27.12 | Sargun | so your signal generator? |
| 03:27.15 | Sargun | what kinda signals |
| 03:27.22 | Sargun | do you just need to generator the signals |
| 03:27.24 | nick125 | Sargun: PM? |
| 03:27.57 | tripzero | compiz ftw |
| 03:28.27 | Sargun | compiz > Aero |
| 03:30.12 | tripzero | :D |
| 03:35.40 | tripzero | Virtual Desktops are a boon. once you try it, you really can't go back ;) |
| 03:36.14 | Sargun | yeah |
| 03:36.19 | Sargun | I love Virtual Desktops |
| 03:36.34 | Sargun | I constantly hit ctrl+alt+[left/right] on peoples computers |
| 03:36.40 | Sargun | and all it does is flip their screens |
| 03:36.47 | Sargun | or cause applications to break |
| 03:44.36 | levi | compiz is still lacking, unless it has improved greatly in the last little while. Quartz FTW. |
| 03:46.03 | Sargun | heh |
| 03:46.23 | levi | Wake me up when you can resize windows in compiz without horrible slowdown. |
| 03:48.21 | levi | Desktop cubes and wobbling windows are for people who don't have anything useful to do with their computers. Subtle drop shadows and zooming/fading effects are fine, but the real point of compositing is to avoid the stupid redrawing mess you get with vanilla X apps. |
| 03:49.17 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@216.31.27.110) |
| 03:49.22 | levi | Hi, elg. |
| 03:49.31 | levi | Man, you just missed my compositing rant. |
| 03:49.37 | levi | Good timing. ;) |
| 03:49.49 | nick125 | Compiz is really lame. |
| 03:50.15 | nick125 | I'm just going to wait for e17 to be released, it looks/works better than Compiz without compositing |
| 03:50.30 | levi | Does it double-buffer windows? |
| 03:50.44 | nick125 | I'm not sure |
| 03:50.51 | nick125 | I haven't used it in a few months |
| 03:51.03 | elg | what about compositing? |
| 03:51.21 | levi | If not (and I'm not even sure if a window manager can even do that by itself) then it's just the same old X garbage. |
| 03:51.41 | levi | repeat for elg: Desktop cubes and wobbling windows are for people who don't have anything useful to do with their computers. Subtle drop shadows and zooming/fading effects are fine, but the real point of compositing is to avoid the stupid redrawing mess you get with |
| 03:51.45 | levi | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:54.15 | levi | elg: So, I think I've spent more time figuring out how to use monads and create parser combinators than I would have just copying&pasting crap to build a brute force parser in Java or whatever. But the result has been far more satisfying so far. :) |
| 04:06.51 | whiteley | levi: if you experience such slowdown you must have a poor video card. |
| 04:07.25 | levi | whiteley: My Mac has a really poor video card and doesn't have such slowdowns. |
| 04:08.16 | levi | It's been a while since I've run compiz on a really nice video card, so it may have improved since then, but it was a dog even on a workstation-class Nvidia card. |
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| 04:19.25 | whiteley | levi: maybe you didn't have 3d enabled. ;) |
| 04:21.09 | levi | I certainly did. My 3d screensavers were quite zippy and smooth. |
| 04:21.22 | levi | compiz was just a steaming pile of garbage. |
| 04:21.40 | levi | It may not be the same now, though. |
| 04:21.55 | levi | And it may be some intermediate layer causing the trouble, for all I know. |
| 04:22.50 | levi | But it was crude and awkward compared to Quartz. |
| 04:34.33 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@216.31.27.110) |
| 04:41.26 | elg | heh |
| 04:41.28 | elg | -chat |
| 04:41.29 | brac | meh, if you have the docs tho. |
| 04:41.39 | elg | i'll meh when I get the docs, thanks. |
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| 05:12.58 | nick125 | Sargun: Do you have a nvidia card? |
| 05:13.12 | levi | -chat |
| 05:13.14 | brac | weber state |
| 05:13.18 | levi | Huh. |
| 05:13.20 | levi | -chat |
| 05:13.21 | brac | (for those married here, you know me in menu circles and then you can't do it just cancels the noise creates a variable name prior to 2000 minutes |
| 05:13.36 | nick125 | (Or anyone have a card and nvidia-drivers 169.09) |
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| 05:34.37 | ibot | stalks fozzmoo, hiding in the shadows and sorting through his garbage. |
| 05:51.25 | tripzero | levi: compiz rocks |
| 05:52.26 | tripzero | desktop wall is amazing |
| 05:53.48 | *** join/#utah fozzmoo (n=fozz@166-70-238-250.ip.xmission.com) |
| 05:53.48 | ibot | stalks fozzmoo, hiding in the shadows and sorting through his garbage. |
| 06:00.58 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@216.31.27.110) |
| 06:06.25 | findlay | ~stalk fozzmoo |
| 06:06.28 | ibot | ACTION furtively infiltrates fozzmoo's shadows and when fozzmoo is turned away jumps out to take a picture with his camera phone! |
| 06:06.58 | findlay | eh, compiz, flashy 3D effects |
| 06:07.10 | findlay | what I want is nuclear 4D effects! |
| 06:07.22 | tripzero | lol |
| 06:08.16 | findlay | 'think you understand your desktop switching scheme? See if you can comprehend a tesseract of desktops!' |
| 06:08.31 | findlay | that'd be 26, I think |
| 06:08.35 | tripzero | lol |
| 06:09.20 | findlay | 1 hypervolume, 8 volumes, 24 sides? |
| 06:09.51 | tripzero | heh |
| 06:12.23 | tripzero | i proposed to the compiz devs to create an effect that polls weather data and replicates it on your desktop |
| 06:12.52 | tripzero | kinda like the current snow effect but with rain, fog, sunlight, and blizzard |
| 06:13.07 | tripzero | that way I don't have to look out the window to see what the weather is like outside :p |
| 06:20.02 | dataw0lf | heh, new xkcd++ |
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| 07:24.12 | ibot | stalks fozzmoo, hiding in the shadows and sorting through his garbage. |
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| 14:08.25 | atoponce | man those onjoins are annoying |
| 14:08.47 | atoponce | i see activity in the channel, only to find ibot ramblings |
| 14:16.51 | tripzero | http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/compiler_complaint.png |
| 14:16.55 | tripzero | lol^^^ |
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| 14:41.28 | undertakingyou | tripzero: great comic |
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| 15:09.24 | Tene | atoponce: just ignore ibot. |
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| 15:22.17 | ibot | stalks fozzmoo, hiding in the shadows and sorting through his garbage. |
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| 15:29.44 | Supaplex | Jayce^: you had to drive in this? :D |
| 15:35.11 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@dhcp12.cs.nmsu.edu) |
| 15:35.43 | Jayce^ | utah valley just started |
| 15:37.17 | elg | started doing what? |
| 15:37.25 | elg | -chat |
| 15:37.26 | brac | stupid cancer |
| 15:37.28 | elg | -metar klru |
| 15:37.29 | brac | KLRU 011514Z AUTO 00000KT 10SM CLR M01/M23 A3013 RMK AO2 |
| 15:37.34 | Jayce^ | snowing |
| 15:42.27 | elg | oh no, is it february? |
| 15:42.52 | elg | "january came and went and I didn't even get started on $NEW_YEARS_RESOLUTION!" |
| 15:48.47 | tensai | I strictly refuse to have new years resolutions |
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| 15:55.00 | Tene | tensai: is that a new year resolution? |
| 15:55.58 | tensai | Tene: sneaky. I see what you did there. alas no, that was something I slowly came to a realization of. |
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| 16:12.13 | fozzmoo | atoponce: ping |
| 16:17.05 | thaddeusq | http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9060579&source=NLT_AM&nlid=1 |
| 16:17.31 | thaddeusq | "Microsoft offers to buy Yahoo for $44.6B" |
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| 16:33.59 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
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| 16:36.17 | mgeary | hi folks |
| 16:36.33 | Tene | http://www.scrollinondubs.com/2008/02/01/the-startup-i-would-invest-in/ |
| 16:37.04 | mgeary | hey, i'm looking for someone who can help me get some DVCAM tapes digitized. Anyone here able, or know someone who is? Note that these are not Mini-DV tapes that go in consumer cameras |
| 16:37.55 | thaddeusq | herlo says I shouldn't use long urls like I did, so: http://tinyurl.com/ypj62m |
| 16:38.05 | Tene | mgeary: possibly try fozzmoo. |
| 16:38.06 | herlo | thaddeusq: thanks |
| 16:38.16 | mgeary | ~fozzmoo |
| 16:38.17 | ibot | somebody said fozzmoo was a tradeoff |
| 16:46.55 | elg | so EE professor I know wants me to help him get set up with some revision control on a project he and some of his students are working on. He's a mac guy, loves xcode (but I don't know if he's using it for this - the code is matlab), once upon a time used RCS but has completely forgotten it and is convinced he wants a GUI interface because he has painful memories of RCS |
| 16:47.15 | herlo | git! |
| 16:47.20 | herlo | they have git-web |
| 16:48.00 | RyanE | mgeary: I'd try places like Inkley's. They seem to have a selection of conversion gear, they'd be much more likely to have DVCAM equipment than schlubs like us. |
| 16:48.07 | elg | should I reassure him that VCSes aren't painful anymore, or just recommend subversion which seems to have a few decent-looking (shareware) GUIs |
| 16:48.10 | mgeary | schlubs is right |
| 16:48.43 | *** join/#utah shnockshnee_ (n=shnocksh@66-240-25-49.isp.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 16:49.06 | elg | anyone ever seen a group called "plugdev"? |
| 16:49.29 | elg | my brother, using ubuntu, has this rogue directory that he can't chown |
| 16:49.39 | elg | sudo chown 755 foo |
| 16:49.47 | elg | operation no tpermitted |
| 16:49.54 | elg | it's 770 root:plugdev |
| 16:51.36 | jsmith | elg: chattr -i? |
| 16:52.25 | RyanE | wow, his computer has been invaded by PLUG. |
| 16:52.34 | RyanE | and *developers* from PLUG, to boot. |
| 16:52.48 | dataw0lf | plugdev is the group that removable devices inherit |
| 16:53.00 | elg | it sounded like something like that |
| 16:53.03 | elg | but this is an internal hdd |
| 16:53.10 | elg | not /, it's mounted at /media/Simon |
| 16:53.11 | elg | but it's interla |
| 16:53.15 | elg | internal even |
| 16:54.18 | dataw0lf | Huh. |
| 16:54.40 | elg | ah, it might be formatted as fat32 or ntfs he says. /me has him check |
| 16:54.43 | dataw0lf | sounds weird; plugdev is assigned to removable devices so that only people who're in the group can mount/dismount them. |
| 16:54.45 | dataw0lf | ah |
| 16:55.01 | elg | ya vfat |
| 16:55.11 | elg | that explains the inability to chown |
| 16:55.16 | dataw0lf | ya |
| 16:55.40 | findlay | hm |
| 16:55.41 | elg | hm. well the problem is that it has 770 permissions, and we want to use rsync -a but on the far end it has to be 775 |
| 16:56.11 | findlay | s/mm/m/ |
| 16:56.13 | dmdavis | just to make sure, didn't you mean chmod, not chown? |
| 16:56.30 | findlay | he meant clown |
| 16:56.32 | elg | well, we wanted to chown the directory to his user so he could chmod them |
| 16:56.47 | dmdavis | OK, cuz you said chown 775 up above |
| 16:56.53 | elg | root might be able to chmod them, but it didn't seem right for his files to belong to root |
| 16:56.55 | dataw0lf | can't you pass --chmod to rsync? |
| 16:56.59 | elg | oops |
| 16:58.13 | elg | i suppose rsync -r would be sufficient |
| 17:24.04 | *** join/#utah bonez44 (n=scott@75.144.9.237) |
| 17:25.06 | bonez44 | how do I check to see which serial port my palm cradle is attached to? |
| 17:25.47 | elg | trial and error |
| 17:26.15 | bonez44 | oh, so there's nothing I can invoke..that will show various ports and items? |
| 17:26.23 | elg | not for serial ports |
| 17:26.32 | *** join/#utah object01_ (i=scott@crackaddict.com) |
| 17:27.24 | bonez44 | for usb ports? |
| 17:27.30 | elg | lsusb |
| 17:28.32 | bonez44 | ok |
| 17:41.41 | Sargun | http://xbmodder.us/welcome.py |
| 17:41.46 | Sargun | hi http://xbmodder.us/welcome.py |
| 17:41.49 | Sargun | ~say http://xbmodder.us/welcome.py |
| 17:41.54 | ibot | http://xbmodder.us/welcome.py |
| 17:42.04 | levi | Good morning. |
| 17:42.05 | Sargun | ~say http://xbmodder.us/pyportal/welcome.py |
| 17:42.06 | ibot | http://xbmodder.us/pyportal/welcome.py |
| 17:42.09 | brac | [~ |
| 17:42.09 | brac | ~say Generosity and perfection are your everlasting goals. |
| 17:42.10 | ibot | Generosity and perfection are your everlasting goals. |
| 17:42.10 | brac | ~] |
| 17:42.11 | brac | [~ |
| 17:42.13 | brac | ~say Good news. Ten weeks from Friday will be a pretty good day. |
| 17:42.13 | ibot | Good news. Ten weeks from Friday will be a pretty good day. |
| 17:51.48 | *** join/#utah acrid (n=mckay@reverse.control4.com) |
| 17:52.08 | rsimpkins | Did I leave the wrong impression? PLUG is unmoderated. That means talk about whatever you want. :S |
| 17:52.23 | rsimpkins | Sometimes I need to learn to just keep my mouth shut. hehe. |
| 17:56.21 | levi | No, he was either confused or lacking reading comprehension skills. Seems to be a common fault, though! ;) |
| 18:04.24 | tensai | levi: how dare you talk about my mother that way! |
| 18:06.44 | pelaofeliz | tensai: your mother's a 'he'? |
| 18:07.22 | tensai | pelaofeliz: see it was a joke, about how some people lack reading comprehension skills... |
| 18:08.19 | pelaofeliz | heh. I get it. I mean... I know! I was just building on your joke.... erm.. |
| 18:11.54 | herlo | darn literal text! |
| 18:31.21 | ^Migs^ | how do I install smbfs? |
| 18:31.22 | *** join/#utah fozzmoo (n=fozz@66.7.122.158) |
| 18:31.22 | ibot | stalks fozzmoo, hiding in the shadows and sorting through his garbage. |
| 18:34.06 | levi | Heh, James Gosling speaks in support of closures for Java: if (i > 0) { |
| 18:34.06 | levi | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:34.06 | levi | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:34.10 | levi | Oops. |
| 18:34.21 | levi | http://blogs.sun.com/jag/entry/closures |
| 18:37.50 | RyanE | wow, I was wondering how you implemented Java closures in C... :) |
| 18:38.04 | fozzmoo | heh. |
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| 19:03.43 | *** part/#utah bonez44 (n=scott@75.144.9.237) |
| 19:12.23 | *** join/#utah ti`ocpi (n=Chelle@michmax.dsl.xmission.com) |
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| 19:32.51 | elg | ^Migs^: don't. use cifs instead |
| 19:32.55 | Keighvin | ~lart Jayce^ |
| 19:32.55 | ibot | takes large quantities of Krispy Kream donuts and stuffs them one after another down Jayce^'s throat until Jayce^ puts on 150lbs |
| 19:33.12 | Keighvin | That takes what, 3, maybe 4 doughnuts? |
| 19:35.13 | *** part/#utah sinuhe (n=user@204.8.196.2) |
| 19:52.08 | levi | Anyone know how I can get a VLAN tag on my packets on a Windows box? |
| 19:55.35 | tensai | 802.1q vlans? |
| 20:18.46 | Sargun | uh |
| 20:19.18 | Sargun | why |
| 20:19.18 | Sargun | levi, why don't you just put it into access mode |
| 20:19.18 | unum | ok so you ron paul supporters. what's his platform on drugs |
| 20:19.27 | unum | with the dea be eliminated? |
| 20:19.33 | unum | s/with/will |
| 20:20.01 | Sargun | apparently ibot doesn't like you |
| 20:22.11 | atoponce | emcnabb: ping |
| 20:22.19 | emcnabb | atoponce, pong |
| 20:22.33 | atoponce | emcnabb: know a "Rob Wilmoth"? |
| 20:22.56 | emcnabb | hum, name sounds familiar |
| 20:23.04 | emcnabb | doesn't he work at RH? |
| 20:23.08 | atoponce | yeah |
| 20:23.51 | atoponce | he just dropped by in ##dvorak, and i noticed his hostmask was nat/redhat/x-blah |
| 20:23.56 | atoponce | so, i was just curious |
| 20:24.06 | emcnabb | yeah, he's in support too |
| 20:24.21 | emcnabb | I'm sure I know the face |
| 20:24.32 | atoponce | cool |
| 20:24.35 | emcnabb | I can't keep everyone straight :-) |
| 20:24.44 | atoponce | heh |
| 20:24.57 | emcnabb | how's life? |
| 20:25.07 | atoponce | today, or in general? :) |
| 20:25.21 | emcnabb | haha, your choice :-) |
| 20:25.45 | atoponce | well, in general, very well. miss my little girl |
| 20:25.52 | emcnabb | how's she doing? |
| 20:26.03 | emcnabb | ours is turning 1 tomorrow, I can't believe it |
| 20:26.05 | atoponce | btw- http://dropshots.com/keriaaron - pics of her from my camera trigger-happy wife |
| 20:26.07 | brac | [DropShots.com] |
| 20:26.11 | atoponce | nice. congrats! |
| 20:26.21 | emcnabb | cool, /me checks it out |
| 20:26.24 | Sargun | emcnabb, wow. |
| 20:26.37 | Sargun | congrats making it through the first year! |
| 20:26.53 | emcnabb | atoponce, she's cute :-) |
| 20:26.57 | emcnabb | Sargun, thanks |
| 20:27.00 | atoponce | thx. :) |
| 20:27.01 | emcnabb | only 17 more to go |
| 20:27.14 | Sargun | hahah |
| 20:27.29 | emcnabb | I like the lacrosse style hat |
| 20:32.44 | *** part/#utah mgeary (n=mgeary@166.70.44.49) |
| 20:33.16 | Sargun | atoponce, How old is she |
| 20:33.29 | atoponce | 3 months yesterda |
| 20:33.30 | atoponce | y |
| 20:34.33 | Sargun | oh, cool. |
| 20:34.49 | Sargun | its funny on how when they're young you do them in weeks |
| 20:34.53 | Sargun | and then you do them in months |
| 20:34.59 | Sargun | and then you do them in years |
| 20:35.04 | Sargun | and then you just kind of forget |
| 20:35.22 | emcnabb | or for some people, too embarrassed to tell (for some reason) |
| 20:35.41 | atoponce | heh |
| 20:35.51 | atoponce | we've reached the months stage |
| 20:36.25 | emcnabb | I think I'm getting the stomach flu. my daughter has been throwing up some, and today I'm feeling like I might too |
| 20:36.36 | Sargun | emcnabb, :-( |
| 20:36.36 | emcnabb | the problem is I have a concall at 4pm I'm leading |
| 20:36.37 | emcnabb | ugh |
| 20:36.53 | emcnabb | I just need to put the phone on mute before I vomit |
| 20:37.06 | Sargun | are you working from home? |
| 20:37.09 | emcnabb | no |
| 20:37.12 | Sargun | ouch |
| 20:37.45 | Sargun | Get a bottle of water and a trash bin |
| 20:38.28 | Sargun | Does RedHat support software? |
| 20:38.29 | Sargun | er |
| 20:38.37 | Sargun | 3rd party software that comes with RedHat |
| 20:38.39 | Sargun | like Quagga |
| 20:39.17 | emcnabb | if we ship it, we support it |
| 20:40.55 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@dhcp12.cs.nmsu.edu) |
| 20:45.09 | fozzmoo | atoponce: ping |
| 20:45.35 | atoponce | fozzmoo: pong |
| 20:45.48 | fozzmoo | Regarding your FF3 blog entry. |
| 20:46.10 | fozzmoo | I just wanted to point out that the FF3 betas are quite a bit LESS bloated than FF2 |
| 20:46.11 | atoponce | ok |
| 20:46.41 | atoponce | i'm running beta 2, and it seems worse than ff2, to me |
| 20:46.44 | fozzmoo | I share your concern that they may be releasing buggy stuff, but even so, it's definitely a performance improvement. |
| 20:46.50 | atoponce | although it loads faster, around the edges |
| 20:47.09 | fozzmoo | Yeah- my experience is that FF3 is, overall, snappier than FF2 |
| 20:47.20 | atoponce | dunno. the overall feel i'm not liking. and it's definitly more unreliable |
| 20:47.32 | atoponce | but, it is beta |
| 20:47.35 | fozzmoo | I'm not familiar with what's going on with the release schedule, but I had hoped they would put out at least a couple more betas. |
| 20:48.22 | fozzmoo | I haven't been able to test FF3 with my favorite extensions because most of them won't work with FF3 |
| 20:48.24 | atoponce | i like the theme integration with the os, and it's definitely faster on load. but there's a lot going on too, that make it seem fat. like the new places |
| 20:48.45 | fozzmoo | I suspect my slowness and unreliability in FF2 may be related to the extensions I use. |
| 20:49.18 | atoponce | and see, i think that shouldn't be the case |
| 20:49.29 | atoponce | extensions shouldn't bake the browser less stable |
| 20:49.44 | atoponce | but they do. fiebug especially |
| 20:49.45 | fozzmoo | Yeah. You're right. |
| 20:49.50 | fozzmoo | Yeah- Firebug, I use a lot. |
| 20:49.53 | atoponce | *firebug |
| 20:50.04 | Sargun | uh |
| 20:50.07 | Sargun | I like FireBug |
| 20:50.07 | atoponce | i disable it, unless needed |
| 20:50.11 | fozzmoo | I like Firebug too. |
| 20:50.24 | fozzmoo | But, it does introduce an element of cold tar to the browsing experience. :) |
| 20:50.37 | fozzmoo | Maybe it's just me. :) |
| 20:50.37 | atoponce | nods |
| 20:50.53 | fozzmoo | Maybe I need a quad-core processor. |
| 20:51.00 | fozzmoo | and solid state drives. |
| 20:51.04 | fozzmoo | and a T3. |
| 20:51.08 | atoponce | heh |
| 20:51.43 | atoponce | all for extensions. is there anyone else who finds that just wrong? :) |
| 20:51.53 | fozzmoo | It would be nice if someone wrote a browser in C that did 95% of what FF does. |
| 20:52.11 | fozzmoo | Maybe an impossible request to fulfill. |
| 20:52.13 | atoponce | that's what i like about epiphany. small, fast, and gecko |
| 20:53.16 | atoponce | and i think it's written in c, actually |
| 20:53.19 | fozzmoo | It's funny how Mozilla/Netscape abandoned Communicator/Seamonkey... |
| 20:53.36 | fozzmoo | and now we're almost ready to split Firefox into a few separate applications. :) |
| 20:54.42 | atoponce | seamonkey is rock solid, but, it's *way* behind |
| 20:55.56 | *** join/#utah bsdice (i=bsdice@DSL01.83.171.145.91.ip-pool.NEFkom.net) |
| 20:58.02 | Supaplex | does debian have some way to automate http://people.debian.org/~tille/cdd/ap-QuickIntro.en.html? |
| 20:58.05 | brac | [Custom Debian Distributions - Quick intro into building meta packages] |
| 21:03.29 | *** join/#utah TimRiker (n=timr@pdpc/supporter/bronze/TimRiker) |
| 21:03.29 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 21:16.15 | fozzmoo | Whew. Engrish.com |
| 21:16.23 | fozzmoo | http://engrish.com/recent_detail.php?imagename=superman-action-figure.jpg |
| 21:16.24 | brac | [When did Superman go metrosexual?] |
| 21:16.43 | bsdice | !help |
| 21:17.27 | fozzmoo | ¡help! |
| 21:18.09 | bsdice | \u00a1help! |
| 21:21.13 | *** join/#utah bonez44 (n=scott@75.144.9.237) |
| 21:21.53 | bonez44 | I need to get control of my accounting this year.....just curious....if any here use either Gnucash or SQL-ledger...? |
| 21:22.16 | bonez44 | and if so, what sort of experience with either, good, bad or ugly? |
| 21:22.28 | *** part/#utah bsdice (i=bsdice@DSL01.83.171.145.91.ip-pool.NEFkom.net) |
| 21:27.37 | Sargun | uh |
| 21:28.13 | bonez44 | uh huh? |
| 21:30.15 | fozzmoo | SQL-Ledger is great... |
| 21:30.20 | fozzmoo | but it takes some getting used to. |
| 21:30.33 | fozzmoo | But, at its core, it is a very solid double-accounting system. |
| 21:30.49 | fozzmoo | If you're looking for something that works just like Quickbooks, that's not it. |
| 21:31.18 | bonez44 | no, I know quickbooks..I want the double entry .. I like that idea.... |
| 21:32.09 | fozzmoo | Yeah- double column accounting. |
| 21:32.10 | *** join/#utah tristanbob__ (n=tristanb@c-98-202-37-242.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 21:32.56 | bonez44 | do you run sql-ledger, or just have had some experience using it before? |
| 21:33.18 | fozzmoo | Iodynamics ran on it for probably 5 years. |
| 21:33.33 | fozzmoo | I'd use it again, for sure. |
| 21:33.54 | bonez44 | ok... |
| 21:34.04 | fozzmoo | It's easy to maintain and upgrade too. |
| 21:34.11 | bonez44 | that's important |
| 21:34.16 | fozzmoo | Another thing I like about it is that it runs on PostgreSQL backend. |
| 21:34.27 | *** join/#utah Newsome (n=sorenson@adsl-99-167-244-166.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net) |
| 21:34.50 | fozzmoo | It will produce HTML, e-mail, PDF, and PS output (invoices, reports, etc.) |
| 21:34.59 | fozzmoo | and you can print to system printers as well. |
| 21:35.33 | fozzmoo | We ended up setting up some remote printers via CUPS and OpenVPN so we could print to printers at our houses and stuff without creating PDFs and printing those to a local printer. |
| 21:36.00 | fozzmoo | We printed all our checks from SQL-Ledger too. |
| 21:36.08 | fozzmoo | Got pre-printed check forms. |
| 21:36.25 | fozzmoo | The templates are all LaTeX, so it's easy to customize. |
| 21:36.33 | bonez44 | fozzmoo: say what? I have a ...er. my wife own an hp 2605dn at home..color laser...I'd love to figure out how to send print jobs to it....over the net, from work here... |
| 21:37.02 | fozzmoo | Shouldn't be too hard. :) |
| 21:37.14 | fozzmoo | Linux makes all things possible. :) |
| 21:37.30 | fozzmoo | bonez44: Gotta run. ttyl |
| 21:42.03 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@dhcp12.cs.nmsu.edu) |
| 21:55.12 | ^Migs^ | wow, Yahoo's stock went up +47.97% today |
| 21:58.51 | dataw0lf | that's what happens when Microsoft offers to buy you |
| 22:01.16 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@dhcp12.cs.nmsu.edu) |
| 22:03.01 | ^Migs^ | I think it's equally like it could go down |
| 22:10.37 | *** join/#utah vontrapp (n=von@71-35-238-223.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 22:10.48 | vontrapp | anybody used a mac bluetooth keyboard? |
| 22:11.00 | vontrapp | is there something special to do to connect to it? |
| 22:11.54 | vontrapp | to put it in binding mode or whatever it's called |
| 22:18.41 | atoponce | http://www.post-data.org/beige/ |
| 22:18.42 | brac | [B E I G E - Cory Arcangel / Joe Beuckman / Joe Bonn / Paul B. Davis] |
| 22:27.10 | vontrapp | ok, so it waits for me to type a "pin" on the keyboard, yet there is nothing that tells me it's waiting for this |
| 22:27.15 | vontrapp | lmao |
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| 22:46.12 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@dhcp12.cs.nmsu.edu) |
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| 22:55.09 | vontrapp | ok, i did rmp -Uhv yum-... |
| 22:55.19 | vontrapp | no errors, but now i still don't have a yum command |
| 22:55.26 | vontrapp | *rpm |
| 22:56.49 | atoponce | rpm -q yum |
| 23:02.43 | vontrapp | ´not installed |
| 23:02.46 | vontrapp | hmmm |
| 23:04.14 | vontrapp | the rpm had .src.rpm at the end of the filename, which i found odd |
| 23:04.49 | tensai | yay, my basil sprouted |
| 23:06.15 | vontrapp | yay! i ate it |
| 23:06.16 | vontrapp | yum |
| 23:08.33 | Wegg | everyone go give money to Ron Paul! |
| 23:08.36 | Wegg | Money Bomb day! |
| 23:08.39 | Wegg | http://www.ronpaul2008.com/ |
| 23:08.42 | vontrapp | woo |
| 23:10.29 | nick125 | damn. The Verizon store didn't have any 755p batteries in stock. Oh well, I guess I'll order one from telesales |
| 23:11.04 | Wegg | someone left a phone in my front yard. |
| 23:11.11 | dataw0lf | Who's Ron Paul? |
| 23:11.17 | Wegg | I called T-Mobile and reported it but no one has claimed it. |
| 23:11.22 | nick125 | Wegg: what kind of phone? |
| 23:11.30 | Wegg | Razor 3 |
| 23:11.32 | Wegg | real nice one. |
| 23:11.37 | nick125 | Eww |
| 23:11.38 | Wegg | works too after I dried it out. |
| 23:13.49 | Wegg | Ron paul is Da Man. He is running for President. He wants to get rid of the Income Tax. He is pretty much. . . a guy the old founding fathers would have supported. |
| 23:14.05 | dataw0lf | Never heard of him. |
| 23:14.23 | spig | get out from under your shell :) |
| 23:14.47 | Wegg | He wants us out of other countries where we don't belong. So out of Iraq, Korea, Japan, etc. It costs us TRILLIANS of $$$ to be there and it only hurts us when they get suck of us sticking our nose into their business. |
| 23:15.23 | dataw0lf | does he spell trillions with an 'A' too? |
| 23:15.47 | dataw0lf | I'm just kidding. I'm well aware of who Ron Paul is. |
| 23:17.04 | vontrapp | i'm tired of people countering his stopping the war by saying that's isolationist |
| 23:17.26 | dataw0lf | who says that? |
| 23:17.31 | vontrapp | we have no business warring with other countries over "democracy" |
| 23:17.36 | vontrapp | people |
| 23:17.43 | vontrapp | don't remember who |
| 23:17.48 | Wegg | ignorant people. |
| 23:18.01 | dataw0lf | well, I think most people don't seem to grasp the idea that if you make a middle eastern country democratic, you're going to get an Islamic run state. |
| 23:18.02 | Wegg | McCain/Romney supporters. |
| 23:18.40 | Wegg | most people don't understand that countries have to grow up on their own. Have their own civil wars etc. |
| 23:18.41 | vontrapp | mccain makes baby jesus cry when he says we'll be at war for 100+ years |
| 23:18.56 | unum | I'm too much of a fan of the federal reserve to vote ron paul |
| 23:19.02 | Wegg | We had ours and MILLIONS of our citizens died. But if we hadn't had it. . . we wouldn't be as strong as we are now. |
| 23:19.08 | unum | we were only in the phillipines for 50 |
| 23:19.16 | unum | well I guess really we've been there for a 110 |
| 23:19.18 | dataw0lf | well I'm certainly not voting for Ron Paul, but I like him. |
| 23:19.24 | unum | it all depends on how you want to count it |
| 23:19.30 | dataw0lf | I certainly already did not vote for Ron Paul* |
| 23:19.32 | vontrapp | i'm not a fan of anything that makes prices rise year after year |
| 23:19.45 | unum | Wegg: the civil war claimed 600,000 causalities |
| 23:19.45 | findlay | haha |
| 23:19.48 | findlay | politics |
| 23:19.51 | findlay | lame |
| 23:19.54 | vontrapp | dataw0lf: if you don't vote for someone you like, then who do you vote for? |
| 23:19.58 | Wegg | thats it? |
| 23:19.59 | Wegg | huh |
| 23:20.04 | dataw0lf | vontrapp: For someone I like more, Barack Obama. |
| 23:20.13 | findlay | yay for Barack |
| 23:20.31 | Wegg | meh |
| 23:20.35 | dataw0lf | I would've voted for Ron Paul if I was registered Republican, but I think it's more important to keep Hillary out. |
| 23:20.36 | vontrapp | barack was my second choice |
| 23:20.54 | dataw0lf | Barack is great. |
| 23:20.58 | vontrapp | i heard something about him supporting S 1959, homegrown terrorist bill thing |
| 23:21.07 | vontrapp | but i haven't verified that |
| 23:21.13 | vontrapp | but it sure casts doubts |
| 23:21.47 | vontrapp | and he certainly doesn't have any kind of platform for saving us from spiraling further and further into debt |
| 23:22.39 | vontrapp | dataw0lf: ok, when it's paul vs hillary then you can vote paul :) |
| 23:22.46 | dataw0lf | oh you bet I will |
| 23:23.54 | Wegg | But you have to donate now so Paul can run superbowl ads and get nominated. |
| 23:24.02 | Wegg | www.ronpaul2008.com |
| 23:24.05 | dataw0lf | already donated to Barack |
| 23:24.57 | vontrapp | he's already gotten his goal of 5 mil (almost) for that, but he can always use more |
| 23:26.03 | rsimpkins | I'm pretty sure RP is going to go down like another RP that ran - Ross Perot. |
| 23:26.15 | rsimpkins | I put them both in the same category. :) |
| 23:27.05 | vontrapp | he's not going anywhere, he's here to stay |
| 23:27.46 | Wegg | yup. |
| 23:27.53 | Wegg | Its a revolution baby! |
| 23:27.56 | Wegg | get with the program! |
| 23:28.32 | rsimpkins | Yeah. Mmm. |
| 23:28.34 | vontrapp | http://paulcash.slact.net/ |
| 23:28.36 | brac | [Ron Paul's Realtime Donation Statistics] |
| 23:28.48 | rsimpkins | lol |
| 23:29.39 | vontrapp | rsimpkins: do you just not think he _can_ win? or do you think he's not a good candidate? |
| 23:29.42 | vontrapp | or both... |
| 23:29.44 | Wegg | Ooo awesome. |
| 23:31.38 | rsimpkins | vontrapp: Both. |
| 23:31.58 | vontrapp | well you can think that then |
| 23:32.16 | vontrapp | it really gets my boat though when people would otherwise vote for someone, but they think "it won't matter" and don't |
| 23:32.19 | rsimpkins | That's why it is a democracy. Or, a democratic republic any way. |
| 23:32.33 | dmdavis | wouldn't it be getting your goat? |
| 23:32.41 | Wegg | He's awesome! I don't think there has ever been a candidate that has been more knowledgeable about economics and free trade. |
| 23:32.57 | dmdavis | unless the getting of your boat is causing your boat not to float, so it no longer "floats your boat"... |
| 23:33.03 | vontrapp | hmm, maybe i should just say llama from now on to avoid that mistake |
| 23:33.03 | rsimpkins | Wegg: Great, let's make him secretary of the treasury - not president. |
| 23:33.10 | dmdavis | :) |
| 23:34.44 | Wegg | He has served on the economic advisory committee in the Senate for ages. . but that does no good when the President gets a blank check on the "war on terror". |
| 23:35.03 | vontrapp | rsimpkins: i might agree with that if the fed was the only problem, but government spending and entitlement programs are half the problem (or more) and must also be dealt with, and that would take a president |
| 23:35.22 | rsimpkins | vontrapp: I think it would take more than a president. :) |
| 23:35.37 | vontrapp | rsimpkins: don't crush my dreams! |
| 23:35.51 | rsimpkins | I think these preseidential candidates put too much stock in their own ambitions. |
| 23:36.00 | rsimpkins | I know at least a couple of them don't drink their own kool-aid. |
| 23:36.31 | tensai | my favorite kool-aid flavor is "red" |
| 23:36.53 | dataw0lf | purple++ |
| 23:37.08 | rsimpkins | I liked the days of Franklin - when congress manipulating the press was allowed! :) |
| 23:37.08 | Wegg | Ron lives his kool-aid. He runs under-budget for his job in congress and what he doesn't use. . . he gives BACK to the federal government to pay down our debt. |
| 23:37.15 | Wegg | has been doing that for 20 years! |
| 23:37.46 | rsimpkins | Wegg: I caution you to never idolize anyone. :) |
| 23:37.58 | Wegg | Oh he's my man. |
| 23:38.09 | Wegg | I wish I could buy Ron Paul Underoos. |
| 23:38.21 | Wegg | :-) |
| 23:38.47 | rsimpkins | Praying to statues of the president is a sure sign we are headed for some interesting times ahead. |
| 23:42.04 | rsimpkins | Unless something really interesting/unexpected happens - i think this nation will be electing Hillary. |
| 23:42.28 | rsimpkins | Although it will be a tight race - to be sure. |
| 23:42.39 | Wegg | That'd suck. |
| 23:42.50 | Wegg | But honestly. . . I'd rather her than McCain. |
| 23:43.04 | rsimpkins | Well, history will be the judge I suppose. |
| 23:43.17 | dataw0lf | if it comes down to McCain versus Hillary, I'll vote McCain |
| 23:43.34 | unum | I'll vote nader |
| 23:43.36 | rsimpkins | Wegg: Answer this question: How much evil are you willing to do, to do good? |
| 23:44.04 | unum | if I was in the state where the vote was close I might consider voting mccain |
| 23:44.17 | dataw0lf | I don't think many people are qualified to answer that, rsimpkins |
| 23:44.39 | Wegg | how much evil? None. |
| 23:44.52 | rsimpkins | Wegg: now think about it a little more, and a little deeper. |
| 23:45.25 | Wegg | Ok what defines evil? |
| 23:45.36 | Wegg | Something against my values I have set for myself? |
| 23:45.45 | Wegg | If so then no. . . I'm not willing to break those. |
| 23:46.07 | rsimpkins | Wegg: I might suggest that you are willing to break them, but you don't know it. |
| 23:46.36 | dataw0lf | rsimpkins: yea well most people don't know that. It's an unfair question. |
| 23:46.46 | vontrapp | rsimpkins: what are you talking about? |
| 23:46.53 | rsimpkins | dataw0lf: It is a question I think we all need to ask ourselves more often. |
| 23:47.15 | dataw0lf | you will never know the answer to that until you've been put in a situation to discern between two evils |
| 23:47.21 | dataw0lf | asking yourself isn't going to help |
| 23:47.33 | dmdavis | rsimpkins: are you referring to something like being willing to kill someone who is about to kill me/my family, if that's the only way to stop it? |
| 23:47.37 | rsimpkins | dataw0lf: I think you get the point. :) |
| 23:47.51 | vontrapp | rsimpkins: are you asking him because he likes a candidate that has a history of NOT doing evil regardless of what good may come of it? |
| 23:48.01 | unum | I wish javascript had a better way to handle dates |
| 23:48.10 | Wegg | If your honest, do your best and use your head. . . you won't have to make those choices. |
| 23:48.13 | dmdavis | rsimpkins: or voting for someone you think is evil, because it's the only way of preventing a more evil person from winning? |
| 23:48.29 | rsimpkins | See, it is a little deeper than a simple question, isn't it? |
| 23:48.39 | dataw0lf | Wegg: that's not true either. |
| 23:48.42 | dataw0lf | but meh. |
| 23:48.58 | dataw0lf | if it's down to Hillary and McCain, I'll vote McCain, but I think Obama will carry the democrats. |
| 23:48.58 | vontrapp | we paul supporters aren't the one diluting our values to "vote the lesser evil" |
| 23:49.19 | Wegg | I won't vote. |
| 23:49.20 | unum | neither are us naders supporters :) |
| 23:49.25 | vontrapp | i'll still vote ron paul |
| 23:49.33 | Wegg | yea I'll just write his name down. |
| 23:49.35 | unum | it's you compromisers that are ruining this country :) |
| 23:49.55 | dataw0lf | hey, I didn't vote for Gore in 2000 because I wanted to vote Nader, then Bush won. |
| 23:49.56 | Wegg | When you go into the booth and pick between the lesser of two evils. . . your not doing anyone any favors. |
| 23:50.01 | dataw0lf | and I was sent to Afghanistan and Iraq |
| 23:50.08 | dataw0lf | almost two years in combat |
| 23:50.10 | dmdavis | vontrapp: I don't think it's diluting values. If you feel that your good candidate has no chance of winning, and a lesser evil has a chance of preventing a greater evil, I can see wanting to prevent greater evil |
| 23:50.18 | dataw0lf | if a "compromise" is what it takes now, I'll do it |
| 23:50.21 | rsimpkins | What will be scarry is if at some point in the future America produces a candidate we _all_ can agree on. |
| 23:50.52 | unum | oops according to wikipedia it was 970,000 causalties from the civil war |
| 23:51.00 | Wegg | ahh |
| 23:51.02 | vontrapp | if you believe your vote isn't good enough to elect who you really want, why do you believe it's any better spent on the next guy? |
| 23:51.17 | Wegg | But I said MILLIONS implying more than 1 million which. . . makes me still wrong. |
| 23:51.18 | unum | dataw0lf: I voted nader as well in 2000, and had nothing to do with bush getting elected |
| 23:51.27 | dmdavis | if one guy will lose by 20%, and another will lose by 1%, I might be able to change the 1% |
| 23:51.49 | Wegg | I just couldn't do it. |
| 23:52.00 | vontrapp | and you might be able to change the 20%, if only people would just STICK TO THEIR CONVICTIONS |
| 23:52.10 | Wegg | My vote is for the man/woman I want. If who I want isn't up there. . . no vote. |
| 23:52.16 | dataw0lf | vontrapp: Obama IS who I really want, I'm just saying that I'm not going to not vote if he doesn't make it. |
| 23:52.26 | unum | it depends a lot on the situation on how I vote |
| 23:52.48 | unum | sometimes I really don't see much difference between the candidates |
| 23:52.58 | vontrapp | unum: yeah, i hear ya |
| 23:53.09 | dmdavis | vontrapp: he's just the best amongst the current candidates. there are probably better ones not in the running. why vote for him then? |
| 23:53.15 | unum | but then there is also the fact that I'm in utah and so it's not a 1% difference |
| 23:53.27 | vontrapp | dmdavis: i have no beef with that, you like obama, power to you man |
| 23:53.29 | vontrapp | go vote for him |
| 23:53.38 | dmdavis | vontrapp: I didn't say that. I don't know who I'll vote for |
| 23:53.42 | vontrapp | just so long as it's not "because he's the one that can beat so and so" |
| 23:53.43 | dmdavis | vontrapp: maybe ron paul |
| 23:53.58 | Wegg | RON PAUL RULEZ |
| 23:54.09 | Wegg | you LDS? |
| 23:54.26 | vontrapp | obviously voting for someone who wasn't even running isn't going to do much good |
| 23:54.29 | dmdavis | vontrapp: I'm just trying to explore a point of view. If I feel RP has no chance, but Hilary would devastate the country, Obama would not, and Obama might win, I'd vote Obama |
| 23:54.36 | Wegg | NOT that that should play into who you vote for but. . . yea. . . |
| 23:54.46 | vontrapp | but at this point, i believe ron paul has enough support i'd vote for him if he was on the ballot or not |
| 23:54.59 | rsimpkins | dmdavis: Well, a lot of people disagree with you. As long as you are aware of that - great. :) |
| 23:55.09 | sargun_screen | hey all |
| 23:55.17 | dmdavis | rsimpkins: I'm not sure I agree with it, I can just see it |
| 23:55.28 | dmdavis | rsimpkins: like I said, just exploring a point of view |
| 23:55.50 | sargun_screen | dmdavis£ what?s up? |
| 23:56.06 | dmdavis | Wegg said taht if he couldn't vote for RP, he wouldn't vote. that's what I'm talking about when I say there are probably better the RP not in the running, but that point is moot |
| 23:56.13 | dmdavis | sargun_screen: not much, what's up with you? |
| 23:56.28 | herlo | I don't think Ron Paul has a chance in hell, whether or not he has good ideas. |
| 23:56.30 | sargun_screen | not too mych waiting on my professor... |
| 23:56.36 | Wegg | Obama would be my 2nd of the people left. |
| 23:56.50 | Wegg | Only if you think that way herlo |
| 23:57.01 | herlo | Wegg: its not about just me |
| 23:57.05 | Wegg | Gotta drink the Kool Aid. |
| 23:57.10 | herlo | if it were, then I'd be president |
| 23:57.11 | *** join/#utah wigamuffin (n=ishyuki@67.41.175.220) |
| 23:57.12 | Wegg | Join the movement. :-) |
| 23:57.13 | herlo | :) |
| 23:57.15 | herlo | Wegg: no |
| 23:57.17 | dataw0lf | Wegg: you know you sound like you're in a cult, right? |
| 23:57.23 | Wegg | he he |
| 23:57.25 | Wegg | yea |
| 23:57.30 | dataw0lf | "Drink the Kool Aid, and the spaceships will come" |
| 23:57.40 | Wegg | ha ha hah |
| 23:57.40 | dataw0lf | herlo: who you going for? |
| 23:57.56 | herlo | dataw0lf: probably obama if I had to choose today, but Hilary is gonna win |
| 23:58.06 | dataw0lf | pfft, we'll see. |
| 23:58.10 | herlo | I do like Huckabee a lot |
| 23:58.18 | Wegg | I just can't stand McCain, Mitt or Huck. . . and Hillary/Bill in the Whitehouse again creaps me out. So its Ron or Obama for me. |
| 23:58.25 | wigamuffin | srry, I just joined but I'm for Obama too. |
| 23:58.37 | wigamuffin | I'm one of those liberalists. XD |
| 23:58.38 | vontrapp | the problem with not doing something because no body else is, is because that makes YOU the nobody else that's doing it |
| 23:58.47 | vontrapp | *not doing it |
| 23:58.48 | Wegg | I didn't think there were this many democrats in the whole of Utah . :-) |
| 23:58.58 | wigamuffin | There isn't in my area. |
| 23:58.58 | dataw0lf | I'm in Nevada :) |
| 23:59.07 | wigamuffin | Nice, is it warm right now? |
| 23:59.08 | dataw0lf | Although I think I'm moving back to Salt Lake within the year |
| 23:59.13 | wigamuffin | Oh. |
| 23:59.17 | dataw0lf | so if anybody hears about any Python jobs, lemme know. |
| 23:59.22 | Wegg | I went and knocked on doors all Saturday and only found 1 democrat. |
| 23:59.37 | Wegg | Told him I voted for Kerry and we both had a laugh. :-) |
| 23:59.46 | wigamuffin | XD. |
| 23:59.46 | dataw0lf | there are quite a few democrats in Salt Lake |
| 23:59.59 | wigamuffin | I haven't met many. |
