| 00:00.25 | *** part/#utah bsdice (i=bsdice@DSL01.83.171.145.91.ip-pool.NEFkom.net) |
| 00:02.08 | fozzmoo | I think you were right |
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| 01:42.30 | Supaplex | muhuhaha I found a workaround. |
| 01:42.40 | Tene | YOU LIE |
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| 02:56.18 | rsimpkins | has anyone in here ever used contegix.com ? |
| 02:59.26 | *** join/#utah fozzmoo (n=fozz@166-70-238-250.ip.xmission.com) |
| 02:59.26 | ibot | stalks fozzmoo, hiding in the shadows and sorting through his garbage. |
| 02:59.43 | fozzmoo | heh. |
| 02:59.58 | rsimpkins | fozzmoo: You ever run in to contegix at all? |
| 03:02.02 | fozzmoo | Nevr heard of it. |
| 03:04.11 | rsimpkins | Taking all the biz back east. |
| 03:05.29 | fozzmoo | Doing what? |
| 03:05.54 | fozzmoo | Dumb name, IMO |
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| 04:02.36 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 04:02.41 | findlay | contagiousix |
| 04:04.27 | levi | findlay: Don't sneeze on me! |
| 04:05.04 | findlay | sneeze-on-levi-ix |
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| 05:09.40 | elg | ok, this is really annoying |
| 05:09.56 | elg | this stupid nic driver is *STILL* spamming my logs every copule of seconds with a stupid mesage |
| 05:10.03 | elg | pci_set_power_state(): 0000:00:0b.0: state=3, current state=5 |
| 05:10.46 | findlay | time to patch the driver :) |
| 05:11.10 | elg | I would expect the kernel devs would have done that sometime in the past 2 years |
| 05:11.18 | elg | it's totally inexcusable |
| 05:19.50 | elg | esp when there's bug reports and patches online |
| 05:20.17 | elg | i'm sure it's fixed in a newer kernel, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be fixed in the latest patch level |
| 05:20.24 | elg | 2.6.22.16 which was released just a week or two ago |
| 05:20.41 | elg | alas lirc doesn't like anything newer |
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| 05:28.40 | elg | -lart lazy bums |
| 05:32.21 | herlo | http://stream.utos.org |
| 05:32.39 | elg | what time is it? |
| 05:32.57 | herlo | 3pm |
| 05:33.14 | herlo | not sure how well / if the recording will go though |
| 05:33.27 | herlo | we'll hopefully have the podcast up tomorrow night tho |
| 05:33.30 | elg | at least bring a voice recorder and covertly record ;-) |
| 05:33.57 | Tene | herlo: how did the hack thing go? |
| 05:34.43 | herlo | Tene: well, blogging about it right now. |
| 05:34.48 | herlo | We hacked for about 12 hrs |
| 05:35.20 | Tene | stayed up kinda late? |
| 05:35.39 | Tene | I really miss staying up all night hacking. |
| 05:35.42 | Tene | Quite a bit. |
| 05:36.35 | herlo | Tene: you know you could've stayed |
| 05:37.13 | Tene | I had a flight the next morning. |
| 05:37.14 | herlo | :) |
| 05:37.21 | herlo | Tene: yeah, I know |
| 05:37.51 | Tene | It sucks far too much if I let my sleep schedule get too far off to try to switch it back for class. |
| 05:38.38 | herlo | yeah, I understand that |
| 05:38.52 | herlo | I regularly go to bed early on wednesday just to get on EST |
| 05:39.16 | Tene | For the past few months I've been too tired to get anything done in the evening. |
| 05:39.22 | Tene | I just lay around in the hotel until bedtime. |
| 05:39.45 | herlo | yeah, it gets easier |
| 05:40.06 | herlo | but a lot of the time, I just want to veg for a couple hours 2 or 3 times a week |
| 05:40.15 | herlo | the other nights, I go out to eat a big meal |
| 05:40.34 | Tene | I played a little bit with Arc last night. That was fun. |
| 05:40.50 | herlo | Arc? |
| 05:41.06 | herlo | I'm currently righting shell scripts for Xiphias with git |
| 05:41.08 | herlo | and rt |
| 05:41.12 | Tene | Lisp variant by Paul Graham. |
| 05:41.16 | herlo | nice |
| 05:42.03 | levi | I'm not terribly impressed by Arc. |
| 05:42.17 | levi | Especially after all the essays about how wonderful it would be. |
| 05:44.02 | Tene | Somehow, it's the first lisp that I've actually had interest in working with. |
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| 05:44.35 | Tene | I've run into lisp everywhere, but before I read about Arc, it always looked uninteresting and awkward. |
| 05:44.50 | Tene | I've tried to get into it before, but somehow there was never any appeal. |
| 05:44.50 | elg | why? |
| 05:45.10 | Tene | Maybe it's just better marketing. |
| 05:45.36 | herlo | its all about marketing :) |
| 05:46.04 | levi | Heh. |
| 05:46.54 | levi | It's got kind of a pragmatic feel to it, but it's far to young to actually be pragmatic in practice. |
| 05:46.59 | levi | s/to/too |
| 05:47.59 | levi | I keep threatening to do a PLUG presentation on scsh, which lets you do the sorts of things you'd do in bash scripting in a scheme-variant instead. |
| 05:48.27 | elg | i'd like to see that |
| 05:48.30 | levi | It makes it easy to pipe programs together, even in ways that would be really hairy in C or bash. |
| 05:48.38 | Tene | I was thinking about writing an sh grammar for parrot today. |
| 05:48.59 | levi | Ew. |
| 05:49.15 | levi | I loathe sh for programming. |
| 05:49.37 | *** join/#utah Sargun (n=Sargun@atarack/staff/sargun) |
| 05:49.51 | levi | It can be extended into a reasonable interactive shell, though. :P |
| 05:50.04 | Sargun | Emacs? |
| 05:50.12 | levi | Sargun: No, sh |
| 05:50.13 | Tene | seems entertaining to be able to use parrot as a shell. |
| 05:50.13 | elg | the problem with sh is that it's so awesome for straightforward scripts, and so terrible for anything algorithmic |
| 05:50.59 | levi | elg: scsh is a little more verbose for straightforward scripts, but only slightly. And then you can easily splice arbitrary Scheme expressions in wherever you like. |
| 05:52.30 | levi | The problem with giving a presentation on it is that people tend to have preconceived notions about anything lisp-like, so I'd have to prepare some really compelling examples. |
| 05:52.41 | elg | has anyone made a Really Good Shellâ„¢ yet? you know, the sort of thing csh wants to be. with the simplicity of sh for simple stuff and useful general purpose applicability? |
| 05:53.34 | levi | Well, arguably, scsh is that shell, unless you're set on a C-like syntax. |
| 05:54.06 | elg | that's an argument I'd like to be exposed to. I'd love that presentation |
| 05:54.07 | levi | (or having it also be an interactive shell) |
| 05:54.20 | elg | i am set on interactive though |
| 05:54.27 | elg | i thought lisp was king of read-eval-print |
| 05:55.06 | levi | Sure, if you don't mind wrapping every line with parentheses. |
| 05:55.19 | elg | it always comes back to them parentheses |
| 05:56.11 | levi | It was designed for scripting, though, not interactive use. sh-variants are acceptable command lines. |
| 05:56.26 | levi | And it's trivial to use a different shell for your scripts than your command lines. |
| 05:56.40 | Sargun | nick125, Sprint has a huge QA department |
| 05:56.45 | elg | does it have to be that way? |
| 05:56.50 | nick125 | Sargun: sitting there doing nothing? |
| 05:56.55 | Sargun | haha |
| 05:57.03 | elg | is there some fundamental problem that keeps a good scripting language from being a good interactive shell? |
| 05:57.11 | nick125 | I don't know what they are QA'ing, but it's obviously not their devices. |
| 05:57.26 | Sargun | nick125, Most of the sprint devices are pretty stable |
| 05:57.34 | levi | elg: I think there are powerful forces that keep the two from converging. |
| 05:57.55 | elg | there may be. it deserves exploration |
| 05:58.01 | nick125 | except for the 755p when it came out, the mogul, the 700p, the 650, the Q, etc. |
| 05:58.10 | levi | Well, Olin Shivers wrote a paper about scsh that you might find interesting. |
| 05:58.22 | levi | He also happens to be pretty funny. |
| 05:59.14 | levi | http://www.scsh.net/docu/scsh-paper/scsh-paper.html |
| 05:59.16 | brac | [A Scheme Shell] |
| 05:59.16 | elg | you'd have to be, to survive the "shivers me timbers" jokes |
| 05:59.38 | levi | His prologues are always hilarious. |
| 06:04.26 | nick125 | I guess there's one good thing about Sprint: Their customers do everybody's QA for them. |
| 06:04.38 | levi | From the paper: "Shell syntax is also carefully designed to allow it to be parsed on-line -- that is, to allow parsing and interpretation to be interleaved. This usually penalizes the syntax in other ways (for example, consider rc's clumsy if/then/else syntax [rc])." |
| 06:04.56 | levi | rc was Plan9's shell |
| 06:08.47 | nick125 | If there are any Sprint Treo 755p users here who want to experiment, please install 1.07 and let me know if it fixes the DTMF issue. |
| 06:10.21 | nick125 | It's supposed to fix device stability and usability...whatever that means |
| 06:11.15 | Sargun | heh |
| 06:11.19 | Sargun | I need a new domain name |
| 06:12.49 | nick125 | How about SargunLand.us? |
| 06:13.14 | Tene | isometimeseatfood.net |
| 06:13.24 | nick125 | Or SargunsBlogAboutHowHeBreaksStuff.info |
| 06:13.45 | Sargun | haha |
| 06:14.04 | Sargun | thefaceoftene.com |
| 06:14.15 | Tene | tenehasnoface.net |
| 06:14.36 | nick125 | ohnowherediditgo.com |
| 06:17.27 | Sargun | uh |
| 06:19.31 | nick125 | Sargun: http://xkcd.com/377/ |
| 06:19.32 | brac | [xkcd - A webcomic of romance, sarcasm, math, and language - By Randall Munroe] |
| 06:19.51 | Sargun | I assw it |
| 06:19.52 | Sargun | I saw it |
| 06:19.58 | Sargun | dwakar.com |
| 06:20.03 | Sargun | dwakar.info |
| 06:21.12 | *** join/#utah vontrapp (n=von@c-67-186-212-118.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 06:21.22 | vontrapp | anyone know how to xor on the command line? |
| 06:21.53 | Tene | sure |
| 06:22.04 | vontrapp | like, xor two files together |
| 06:22.16 | Tene | Yes, I would like that. |
| 06:22.21 | Sargun | why? |
| 06:22.48 | Sargun | ^ |
| 06:22.48 | Sargun | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:22.49 | Sargun | ^= |
| 06:22.49 | Sargun | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:22.52 | vontrapp | sanity check |
| 06:22.55 | Sargun | vontrapp, they are equal size, right? |
| 06:23.02 | vontrapp | yep |
| 06:23.02 | Sargun | Why do you want to do this? |
| 06:23.19 | Tene | Sargun: for murder |
| 06:23.27 | vontrapp | i have ciphertext from aes-128-ctr |
| 06:23.36 | Sargun | yes... |
| 06:23.44 | vontrapp | i want to xor the ciphertext with the original text, decrypt in ecb mode, and see that the counter looks right |
| 06:24.14 | vontrapp | or see what the counter looks like |
| 06:24.41 | Tene | ... oh, you're asking how. |
| 06:24.49 | Tene | I read that as "Anyone want to know how?" |
| 06:24.59 | vontrapp | so something like: tail -c +9 ciphertext | xat - plaintext | ecb decrypt | xxd |
| 06:25.00 | Sargun | uh |
| 06:25.11 | Sargun | Write a tool |
| 06:25.12 | Sargun | in Python |
| 06:25.30 | vontrapp | i've been writing too much already |
| 06:25.34 | Sargun | hm |
| 06:25.48 | vontrapp | carpal tunnel, you know how it goes |
| 06:25.53 | Sargun | heh |
| 06:26.34 | Sargun | what project is this for |
| 06:26.45 | vontrapp | aes modes |
| 06:27.05 | Tene | I think openssl might be able to do it. |
| 06:27.25 | Sargun | Probably |
| 06:27.45 | vontrapp | do the xor? |
| 06:27.54 | Sargun | openssl is pretty freaking crazy |
| 06:27.58 | Tene | vontrapp: yes |
| 06:28.07 | vontrapp | except it couldn't even do ctr mode |
| 06:28.21 | vontrapp | well, the library can, but not the cli tool |
| 06:29.52 | Sargun | the cli tool is :da0widwawdwawaidwa8uduw098oi89iwadiwa9pdiwa0-eoj21ije2qejzmcsasdisiwakdawdfsfr |
| 06:29.59 | Sargun | ||DAWDWADWA}{AWD"AW{}DAW}AWD}A{"}"LAPL{D:Q@_!R#$%^IGFSAPCKAJC(A)EPK@ |
| 06:39.17 | findlay | carpel tunneling? |
| 06:39.30 | findlay | I don't think I'm familiar with that protocol |
| 06:39.33 | findlay | RFC? |
| 06:39.46 | vontrapp | ~comment findlay |
| 06:39.57 | Sargun | dwakar dunkur vfrst vfrost vfrok rscxi hgunk yrat |
| 06:40.08 | Sargun | Domain choices, which one should I choose. |
| 06:40.20 | findlay | ~rot1234567890987654321234567890987654321 Sargun |
| 06:40.20 | ibot | Aizocv |
| 06:40.23 | vontrapp | i don't like any of th v ones |
| 06:40.30 | vontrapp | s/th/the/ |
| 06:40.44 | findlay | Sargun: Aizocv.com |
| 06:40.51 | Sargun | yrat.com |
| 06:40.51 | vontrapp | in fact, i only like the first two |
| 06:40.53 | Sargun | dwakar.com |
| 06:41.11 | findlay | sounds like a Star Wars character |
| 06:41.17 | Sargun | DWAKAR |
| 06:41.22 | Sargun | I will kick your ass |
| 06:41.27 | Sargun | er |
| 06:41.32 | Sargun | sorry about language |
| 06:41.40 | findlay | George's lawyers will be onto you in about 5 minutes Sargun |
| 06:41.46 | Sargun | hahaha |
| 06:42.31 | findlay | Sargun: that's OK. We all know you'll repent of your wayward language persuations and be converted to perl eventually |
| 06:43.17 | Sargun | uh. |
| 06:54.17 | Sargun | IRSXC.com |
| 06:54.19 | Sargun | isn't taken |
| 06:55.25 | Sargun | yeah |
| 06:55.33 | Lakshmi | imsxy |
| 06:55.42 | Lakshmi | hey sargun |
| 08:17.07 | *** join/#utah ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) |
| 08:17.07 | *** topic/#utah is current topic is: Off Topic and Beyond | http://plug.org/irc | Channel log @ http://ibot.rikers.org/%23utah/ | Join the #utah last.fm group: http://www.last.fm/group/%2523utah | Pres Hinckley passed away 2008.01.27 7pm |
| 08:17.07 | *** mode/#utah [+o ibot] by ChanServ |
| 08:27.37 | Sargun | no you aren't |
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| 14:09.03 | atoponce | ~onjoin ibot |
| 14:09.03 | ibot | onjoin for ibot set by maquis on Sat Feb 18 21:09:00 2006: I'm Back! |
| 14:09.23 | atoponce | wow. that's an old onjoin |
| 14:09.46 | Migs | thank you Captain Obvious |
| 14:10.06 | atoponce | ... |
| 14:11.16 | Migs | :) |
| 14:26.08 | Sargun | uh |
| 14:26.15 | Sargun | wow. |
| 14:26.22 | Sargun | Migs, where are your carrots? |
| 14:27.05 | Supaplex | he ated them |
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| 14:29.49 | Sargun | O RLY? |
| 14:35.13 | Migs | http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/funny-pictures-cat-eyes-camera-flash-hostage.jpg |
| 14:50.41 | nick125 | woah, it looks like the new treo 755p firmware might have a2dp support. |
| 14:52.20 | nick125 | And a nice little update to the messaging dialog |
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| 15:05.41 | tensai | herlo: ping |
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| 15:21.11 | Supaplex | so provo's in the single digit temps this morning |
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| 15:21.42 | ibot | stalks fozzmoo, hiding in the shadows and sorting through his garbage. |
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| 15:43.17 | herlo | tensai: ping |
| 15:43.22 | herlo | er pong |
| 15:43.29 | jsmith-busy | ~floodping herlo |
| 15:43.43 | herlo | ~lart jsmith-busy |
| 15:43.43 | ibot | changes jsmith-busy's permissions to 0777 and tells the world |
| 15:43.51 | herlo | jsmith-busy: thought you were *busy* |
| 15:44.03 | jsmith-busy | herlo: Never too busy to pester you |
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| 15:46.39 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 15:46.58 | herlo | hehe, funny |
| 15:47.48 | tensai | herlo: some guys at idaho state want to host an open source conference |
| 15:48.40 | fozzmoo | tensai: Tell them "Tough." |
| 15:48.40 | tensai | herlo: I was hoping we could pick your brain for ideas and potential roadblocks |
| 15:49.15 | tensai | thus spake the fozzmoo |
| 15:49.45 | fozzmoo | :) |
| 15:49.57 | tensai | jsmith-busy: the 700mhz went for 1.2million |
| 15:50.14 | tensai | jsmith-busy: no word yet on who actually won though. good chance it was union. |
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| 15:53.42 | sargun_screen | hey sexies |
| 15:53.52 | sargun_screen | erglea! |
| 15:54.38 | sargun_screen | so, asmost people inh here are christian, i have a questipn |
| 15:55.11 | sargun_screen | what is the next best thing to christianity, religion wise |
| 15:55.37 | tensai | isn't that a highly subjective question? |
| 15:55.49 | Tene | "next best thing"? |
| 15:55.50 | tensai | and a rather pointless one? |
| 15:55.58 | elg | no, it's totally objective and the answer is elvis worship |
| 15:56.18 | tensai | that settles it. elg is going to hell. |
| 15:56.20 | sargun_screen | heh |
| 15:56.41 | elg | don't you mean to hellvis? |
| 15:56.59 | sargun_screen | no, i get a fun negative faith test |
| 15:57.05 | elg | congratulations I thin |
| 15:57.21 | sargun_screen | yeah |
| 15:57.28 | elg | well, gmail finally is filtering most of the spam |
| 15:57.44 | elg | it took a few too many days I think, but not more than a week. |
| 15:58.09 | sargun_screen | anyways i get to choose a religion and i get to see if the person snaps to the new religion |
| 15:58.25 | tensai | "snaps"? |
| 15:58.33 | elg | like in west side story? |
| 15:58.56 | sargun_screen | i hated that movie |
| 15:59.13 | elg | so you don't snap to the west side story religion |
| 15:59.14 | tensai | sargun_screen: and that's why you're going to hellvis |
| 15:59.39 | elg | -chat |
| 15:59.40 | brac | I don't understand that part. |
| 16:00.25 | sargun_screen | no |
| 16:00.37 | sargun_screen | i am going to hellgun |
| 16:02.10 | *** join/#utah wps (n=wps@64.0.192.94) |
| 16:02.47 | sargun_screen | brb |
| 16:02.51 | tensai | sargun_screen: we still don't understand this project of yours |
| 16:05.02 | Tene | He's going to declare himself a believer in some religion to see if another person will then do so shortly after he does. |
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| 16:05.25 | Tene | What about bahai (sp?) |
| 16:05.30 | Tene | That's an interesting one. |
| 16:05.43 | findlay | I'm Jedi |
| 16:05.54 | Tene | That's a lie. |
| 16:06.30 | Tene | Woah. |
| 16:06.52 | findlay | These aren't the droids you're looking for |
| 16:08.57 | levi | sargun_screen: Go for Buddhism. It's trendy. |
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| 16:18.27 | elg | sargun_screen: if it's really a test, go for something wacky |
| 16:18.35 | elg | or at least unusual |
| 16:18.47 | elg | otherwise you have confounding influences. |
| 16:18.57 | elg | what if they are inclined to follow you but then they turn out liking the religion you pretend to pick? |
| 16:19.06 | elg | you don't know if they would have followed through |
| 16:19.52 | Tene | http://www.bahai.org/ |
| 16:21.22 | *** join/#utah Sargun (n=Sargun@atarack/staff/sargun) |
| 16:25.34 | levi | Tene: Oh, I just thought of something. |
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| 16:26.11 | Tene | levi: eh? |
| 16:26.20 | levi | Tene: If Arc is interesting to you, you might want to check out Clojure instead. It's actually got cool features. |
| 16:26.38 | levi | http://clojure.sourceforge.net/ |
| 16:26.39 | brac | [Introduction | Clojure] |
| 16:27.10 | Tene | Hmm. I really need to work on getting rid of my inaccurate anti-jvm biases. |
| 16:27.33 | levi | Running on the jvm would be faster than running in mzscheme like Arc does. |
| 16:28.03 | levi | Plus, you get to call all the zillion libraries that the Java folks are so proud of, if you feel the need. |
| 16:28.22 | Sargun | rm -rf |
| 16:28.23 | Sargun | er |
| 16:29.52 | *** join/#utah Kemotaha (n=Kemotaha@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 16:30.37 | Tene | My reason for disliking the jvm is "It reminds me of Java, which was awkward to program in." |
| 16:30.48 | Tene | So, like I said, inaccurate. |
| 16:30.56 | levi | Oh. Well, Clojure is not likely to remind you of Java. :) |
| 16:31.18 | levi | You could make a little shell script to start it so you don't have to see 'jvm' on the command line. ;) |
| 16:31.44 | Tene | Heh. :) |
| 16:31.52 | Tene | I'll look into it. Thanks. :) |
| 16:32.13 | Sargun | alias |
| 16:36.02 | *** join/#utah markl_ (n=mark@c-24-10-221-6.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 16:38.56 | *** join/#utah ti`ocpi (n=Chelle@michmax.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 16:43.37 | levi | Hmm, Jesse says Bebo allows Flash applets to auto-play. I don't think I'll ever use bebo, and that makes it just a little less likely. |
| 16:44.21 | levi | I guess users can disable sound for bebo flash, but auto-play flash is still highly annoying. |
| 16:47.30 | levi | Hah, the airplane on the conveyor belt took off easily on Mythbusters. |
| 16:51.04 | tensai | websites should not play sound or video unless I ask them too. which is rare |
| 16:51.08 | jsmith | levi: Yeah, I saw that last night. |
| 16:51.15 | jsmith | tensai: Amen! |
| 16:51.26 | tensai | which is why I love flashblock |
| 16:51.29 | levi | I want to shake people who believe the plane won't take off. |
| 16:52.48 | *** join/#utah neybar (n=jalance@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 16:52.49 | tensai | levi: but will that really put the debate to rest? |
| 16:53.18 | levi | tensai: No, because some people want to insist that the conveyor belt be idealized but not the wheel bearings. |
| 16:53.50 | Sargun | What about the mythbuster? |
| 16:54.13 | levi | They are stupid, because interpreting the question in any other way than what was demonstrated leads to either an unfair partial idealization or a paradox. |
| 16:55.53 | jsmith | levi: I know! The wheels on a prop plane are completely independent of the thrust and lift, but some people still refuse to believe that a plane != a car |
| 16:56.04 | levi | People want a conveyor belt that is somehow capable of infinite speed, but wheels that still have friction! |
| 16:56.15 | levi | I'm sorry, but conveyor belts have friction in their mechanisms too. |
| 16:57.05 | levi | If you're going to let your conveyor belt have unbounded speed, you're going to have to let your wheel bearings be frictionless. |
| 16:57.29 | levi | And in that case, the airplane will clearly take off. |
| 17:00.25 | levi | There are any number of ways to think about it, and you always get one of two outcomes: logical inconsistency of a plane that takes off. |
| 17:00.30 | levi | s/of/or |
| 17:06.41 | Jayce^ | "it's all about ball bearings nowadays... " |
| 17:11.43 | goozbach | Jayce^: what is that a quote from? |
| 17:13.07 | goozbach | I googled, it and all I saw was ibot's log, you saying the same thing... back in 2005 |
| 17:15.07 | *** join/#utah mrpull-lt (n=Jake@64-172-16-214.ded.pacbell.net) |
| 17:20.04 | maquis | Jayce^: see pm :) |
| 17:22.29 | maquis | levi: at that rate, you might as well have the plane be a frictionless point cow |
| 17:22.33 | maquis | er |
| 17:22.38 | maquis | frictionless spherical point cow |
| 17:25.15 | levi | maquis: Well, the important elements of the problem are that an airplane needs to reach a certain airspeed before taking off, it generates thrust by interacting with the surrounding air via a propeller or jet engine, and it's held off the ground by wheels, which by design minimize friction. |
| 17:26.42 | levi | A plane flies by interaction with the air, not with the ground. The wheels exist to minimize ground interaction, so when we idealize things, ground interaction tends towards zero. |
| 17:28.13 | levi | In reality, it would be impossible to run a conveyor belt fast enough to apply enough friction force in the wheels to counteract the airplane's thrust-generating action against the air. |
| 17:29.02 | Sargun | How do I tell my thread it needs to die? |
| 17:29.48 | levi | If we idealize both the airplane wheels and the conveyor belt, so there's no friction and we can spin both of them arbitrarily fast, attempting to stop the plane by spinning the conveyor belt is equally fruitless, and quickly increases to infinity while the plane happily takes off. |
| 17:30.11 | levi | That's pretty nonsensical. |
| 17:30.20 | tensai | levi: the answer would be obvious if asked another way, "if a plane flies over a conveyor belt which is moving at the same speed as the plane, will the plane continue to fly?" |
| 17:30.24 | findlay | levi: why do people have these silly misconceptions? |
| 17:30.34 | findlay | tensai: of course not! |
| 17:30.46 | findlay | won't that create a singularity? |
| 17:30.49 | levi | findlay: Well, they want to believe that the conveyor belt somehow makes the plane stay still. |
| 17:31.13 | findlay | levi: haha |
| 17:32.25 | findlay | if you tried, all you'd do is make the wheels spin faster when it's on the ground |
| 17:33.16 | maquis | levi: i was being facetious |
| 17:33.50 | levi | findlay: Well, if you idealized the conveyor belt but not the wheels, you could spin the wheels fast enough that they provided enough friction to negate the thrust provided by the engine. |
| 17:34.29 | findlay | levi: that's true |
| 17:34.38 | levi | But you'd also have to idealize every other aspect of the wheel besides the friction force, since actually doing that would cause real wheels to explode or otherwise fail. |
| 17:34.45 | findlay | too few people think Newtonian |
| 17:34.58 | findlay | most people think Aristotilean |
| 17:35.22 | findlay | ~seen Lakshmi |
| 17:35.59 | ibot | lakshmi <n=shnocksh@66-240-25-49.isp.comcastbusiness.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #utah, 10h 40m 17s ago, saying: 'hey sargun '. |
| 17:36.00 | levi | That's really stretching credulity to make your point. "I'm going to idealize away *every* aspect of this problem except the one normally insignificant variable that lets me prove my point!" |
| 17:36.48 | findlay | haha |
| 17:37.28 | Sargun | o.O |
| 17:37.40 | whiteley | oy. would someone please pull the plug on the plug list, and put it out of its misery? |
| 17:37.48 | Sargun | haha |
| 17:38.04 | levi | whiteley: Oh, it'll go back to its normal dull self soon enough. ;) |
| 17:38.46 | whiteley | s/dull/idiotic/ |
| 17:39.09 | findlay | but where will I get my entertainment then? |
| 17:39.53 | levi | whiteley: Well, if you think the normal 'how do I make my Linux box do *x*' questions are idiotic, you should probably find another list. But I don't think that's what you meant. |
| 17:40.29 | whiteley | no |
| 17:40.30 | levi | I think they're pretty dull, but useful. |
| 17:44.02 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@dhcp12.cs.nmsu.edu) |
| 17:44.22 | maquis | what's happening on plug? |
| 17:44.34 | findlay | levi: good google seeding |
| 17:44.47 | findlay | for people who know how to ask google good questions |
| 17:44.59 | findlay | they'll find the mailing list thread |
| 17:45.28 | levi | Well, most of the questions asked on the list could have been answered by googling already. |
| 17:45.55 | levi | It's just nice to have people to discuss problems with instead. |
| 17:46.56 | whiteley | maquis: Kathy Dopp cloned herself a few times, and infiltrated the plug list. |
| 17:47.02 | maquis | levi: that's what irc is for |
| 17:47.17 | levi | maquis: That's also what mail lists are for. |
| 17:47.34 | maquis | whiteley: that doesn't help, since i don't know who kathy dopp is |
| 17:47.52 | findlay | whiteley: I remember those days |
| 17:47.57 | whiteley | heh |
| 17:47.57 | maquis | and i doubt that looking that up would tell me the answer to my question anyways |
| 17:48.01 | tensai | maquis: stop hiding. we know you're just kathy in disguise. |
| 17:48.11 | maquis | tensai: sshhh!!!! |
| 17:49.58 | levi | maquis: On the contrary, googling for 'Kathy Dopp' should give you a pretty good idea what he meant. |
| 17:51.14 | elg | emcnabb picks tensai's nose |
| 17:52.06 | maquis | levi: election discussions? |
| 17:52.17 | levi | maquis: Yeah, lots of politics. |
| 18:07.48 | goozbach | cool command of the day: ack http://search.cpan.org/dist/ack/ack |
| 18:08.01 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@dhcp12.cs.nmsu.edu) |
| 18:09.17 | findlay | interesting |
| 18:09.51 | goozbach | it's a powerfull grep clone, which omits all revision control shadow directorys, core dumps, etc. |
| 18:12.41 | Tene | ack is very nice. |
| 18:12.49 | Tene | Andy is a cool guy. |
| 18:19.21 | elg | so am i |
| 18:20.12 | Tene | elg: Have you written any of the software that I use at least as frequently as I use ack? |
| 18:21.26 | elg | have you ever used bash? |
| 18:21.47 | Jayce^ | Tene, agreed |
| 18:21.59 | Tene | elg: yes, I have! |
| 18:22.04 | elg | cool |
| 18:22.07 | *** join/#utah shnockshnee (n=shnocksh@66-240-25-49.isp.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 18:22.07 | elg | i didn't write that |
| 18:22.09 | *** join/#utah shnockshnee_ (n=shnocksh@66-240-25-49.isp.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 18:22.26 | Tene | Did you write screen? I use screen quite a bit. |
| 18:22.44 | elg | i'll have to check with my lawyers on that one |
| 18:22.59 | Tene | ssh? grep? perl? sed? |
| 18:23.05 | findlay | cat?! |
| 18:23.14 | Tene | I bet elg wrote cat. |
| 18:23.28 | Tene | ibot: elg |
| 18:23.29 | ibot | hmm... elg is that freak in new mexico, or a yak herder at heart |
| 18:23.42 | Tene | ibot: elg is also the author of cat |
| 18:23.43 | ibot | ACTION sandwichmaps is also the author of cat. |
| 18:23.55 | elg | no but I did write dog |
| 18:24.28 | elg | apparently I'm immutable |
| 18:25.41 | Sargun | neato |
| 18:25.59 | Sargun | if elg is in newmexico: |
| 18:26.00 | Sargun | wadiwadkwapodkwa |
| 18:30.22 | vontrapp | is that navajo? |
| 18:33.03 | *** join/#utah bbeattie (n=media@65.48.77.206) |
| 18:33.05 | vontrapp | i want an lcars theme for mythtv |
| 18:33.09 | vontrapp | is that too much to ask? |
| 18:33.21 | vontrapp | apparently one guy has one, but i don't see any way to download it |
| 18:33.41 | elg | vontrapp: yes, too much to ask |
| 18:34.29 | findlay | Lakshmi! |
| 18:40.27 | *** join/#utah Lakshmi (n=shnocksh@66-240-25-49.isp.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 18:41.17 | *** join/#utah bbeattie (n=media@65.48.77.206) |
| 18:51.35 | *** join/#utah shnockshnee (n=shnocksh@66-240-25-49.isp.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 19:14.55 | *** join/#utah shnockshnee_ (n=shnocksh@66-240-25-49.isp.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 19:27.36 | *** join/#utah shnockshnee_ (n=shnocksh@66-240-25-49.isp.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 19:44.44 | *** join/#utah vontrapp_ (n=von@c-67-186-212-118.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 19:46.09 | *** join/#utah shnockshnee (n=shnocksh@66-240-25-49.isp.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 20:10.06 | levi | Hey, if smorrey moves to CA, do you think he'll stop posting on PLUG? |
| 20:15.53 | *** join/#utah fungus_ (n=olsonl@2001:5c0:8fff:fffe:0:0:0:1647) |
| 20:16.36 | tensai | levi: do you think he got a job? |
| 20:16.58 | levi | Well, one can't completely rule out miracles. |
| 20:18.42 | dataw0lf | whew, I dunno, that's a bit more than feeding 5000 people with 5 loaves of bread and 2 fish. |
| 20:19.14 | Sargun | smorrey? |
| 20:19.15 | Sargun | CA? |
| 20:19.18 | Sargun | why is he coming here? |
| 20:19.30 | Sargun | who is smorrey |
| 20:20.01 | levi | who is sargun? why is he in #utah? |
| 20:20.06 | Sargun | uh |
| 20:20.09 | Sargun | blame emcnabb |
| 20:20.11 | Sargun | and goozbach |
| 20:20.16 | levi | No, I blame sargun. |
| 20:20.36 | Sargun | Oh, and by the way, sargun is a godsend |
| 20:20.47 | Sargun | ~sargun |
| 20:20.48 | ibot | rumour has it, sargun is amazing. |
| 20:20.52 | emcnabb | Sargun, don't blame me |
| 20:20.56 | Sargun | Haha |
| 20:21.03 | Sargun | Dang, he wasn't away |
| 20:21.12 | emcnabb | just because I told you about it once, doesn't mean that the last 3 - 4 years of hell are my fault! |
| 20:21.32 | dataw0lf | oh Sargun is talking. I sometimes forget whom I have on ignore |
| 20:21.33 | Sargun | Actually you didn't tell me about it |
| 20:21.54 | Sargun | emcnabb, you pointed us to your website to show us something about Vi |
| 20:21.54 | emcnabb | ok, well, by me being your instructor |
| 20:22.15 | Sargun | and then I went to your website |
| 20:22.18 | Sargun | and investigated |
| 20:22.25 | Sargun | and found your contact info |
| 20:22.39 | levi | This whole 'Guru Labs' thing seems to have had disasterous unintended consequences. I think that we ought to shut it down to prevent further occurences. :P |
| 20:23.01 | Sargun | Hahaha |
| 20:23.02 | emcnabb | levi, or just kickban Sargun :-) |
| 20:23.10 | Sargun | what about lakshmi |
| 20:23.12 | dataw0lf | now THAT's an idea. |
| 20:23.12 | Sargun | and nick125? |
| 20:23.31 | levi | I wouldn't be sad to see them go. :P |
| 20:24.11 | Sargun | ~save me |
| 20:24.12 | ibot | ACTION runs into a burning building and saves sargun from certain death. Is that enough? |
| 20:24.14 | emcnabb | at least mheath is gone |
| 20:24.21 | Sargun | I think you guys KBed him |
| 20:24.25 | Tene | argh, the wifi card on my eeepc is dead again. |
| 20:24.26 | levi | Indeed. |
| 20:24.32 | Sargun | Tene, How come? |
| 20:24.35 | levi | A very effective remedy! |
| 20:24.39 | Sargun | Didn't he try to commit suicide? |
| 20:24.44 | Sargun | levi, And someone pissed him off |
| 20:24.54 | Sargun | and I think maquis or one of the other ops gave him a talking to |
| 20:25.04 | dataw0lf | I didn't make mheath feel very welcome |
| 20:25.07 | dataw0lf | :( |
| 20:25.19 | dataw0lf | that being said, I don't think anyone did |
| 20:25.25 | Sargun | uh |
| 20:25.32 | Sargun | That one guy who was also in the military did |
| 20:25.44 | levi | I tried to, aside from when he'd get really, really annoying. |
| 20:25.47 | *** join/#utah dirkus (n=dirk@75-165-237-38.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 20:26.09 | findlay | dataw0lf: YOU L4M3R!!!!!!! |
| 20:26.11 | synic | Sargun: aren't you xbmodder and aren't you mheath's friend? |
| 20:26.12 | dataw0lf | levi: what, as in when he wasn't idling? |
| 20:26.14 | Sargun | The fact he was suicidal, and wanted to deal with deadly machinery |
| 20:26.21 | Sargun | synic, No, my and mheath hated each other |
| 20:26.23 | Sargun | er |
| 20:26.26 | Sargun | s/my/me/ |
| 20:26.34 | dataw0lf | findlay: :'( |
| 20:26.36 | emcnabb | I think they secretly had a relationship |
| 20:26.37 | ^Migs^ | http://www.windowsserver2008.com/ |
| 20:26.38 | brac | [Latest in Server Products] |
| 20:26.39 | ^Migs^ | hahahaha |
| 20:26.43 | findlay | dataw0lf: yay, you don't ignore me :) |
| 20:26.47 | Sargun | Mheath actually pretended to be a women, and PMed me |
| 20:26.50 | levi | But there's a line between being welcoming and encouraging poor behavior, and I had to draw it somewhere. |
| 20:27.00 | dataw0lf | findlay: Only Sargun, mheath, and Lakshmi, I think |
| 20:27.06 | findlay | hm |
| 20:27.27 | goozbach | how does something like twitter make money? |
| 20:27.47 | Sargun | goozbach, sometimes they "host events" |
| 20:27.49 | levi | goozbach: It must have something to do with fiat currency! ;) |
| 20:27.59 | emcnabb | I wonder how many people have me on ignore |
| 20:28.22 | levi | emcnabb: I don't imagine anyone does. |
| 20:28.31 | dataw0lf | well, maybe mheath, but that's complimentary |
| 20:28.36 | findlay | is emcnabb speaking? |
| 20:28.40 | dataw0lf | hehe |
| 20:29.32 | emcnabb | :-) |
| 20:29.35 | Sargun | emcnabb, mheath did |
| 20:30.50 | emcnabb | I'm ready for this day to be over |
| 20:30.54 | emcnabb | too busy :-( |
| 20:30.57 | herlo | me too |
| 20:31.01 | herlo | too tired |
| 20:31.05 | herlo | :-/ |
| 20:31.10 | findlay | oh, sure. Just be 2 hours ahead and complain :) |
| 20:31.20 | maquis | http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/microsoft/archives/130626.asp |
| 20:31.24 | brac | [A computer shop's sales pitch: 'We remove Vista'] |
| 20:31.39 | herlo | findlay: but I'm not, just emcnabb |
| 20:31.46 | maquis | emcnabb: i don't :) |
| 20:32.01 | Sargun | emcnabb is 3 hours in the FUTURE! |
| 20:32.29 | maquis | Sargun: i'm cooler |
| 20:32.32 | maquis | i'm an hour in the past |
| 20:32.44 | dataw0lf | me too, me too |
| 20:32.55 | maquis | so, i use all of you to determine what's going to happen |
| 20:32.58 | emcnabb | Sargun, yes, I'm in the future. Bad things will happen to you in an hour. Run for your life |
| 20:33.00 | emcnabb | don't stop |
| 20:33.03 | emcnabb | just keep running |
| 20:33.17 | maquis | emcnabb: any info for me? |
| 20:33.31 | maquis | hmmm |
| 20:33.37 | Sargun | maquis, No, your in my hour. |
| 20:33.39 | Sargun | IIRC |
| 20:33.41 | emcnabb | maquis, a truckload of bricks will drive through your cube/office in a bit |
| 20:33.44 | maquis | Sargun: good point |
| 20:33.47 | Sargun | unless you went to alaska or something. |
| 20:33.49 | maquis | emcnabb: interesting |
| 20:34.00 | maquis | emcnabb: you want to pair up and see if we can cause any paradoxes? |
| 20:34.00 | Sargun | O RLY? |
| 20:34.19 | emcnabb | maquis, what were you thinking of? |
| 20:34.21 | Sargun | ~activate findlay |
| 20:34.28 | Sargun | There isn't any activator?:> |
| 20:34.35 | Sargun | ~ibot |
| 20:34.35 | ibot | methinks ibot is a blootbot written in perl run by TimRiker on his server. logs on http://ibot.rikers.org/<chan>/ , ibot, jbot, apt are all the same process. It uses sqlite, but mysql or other SQL storage is also supported. |
| 20:34.38 | Sargun | ~activate |
| 20:34.39 | maquis | i dunno... just something where you see A, and then i change something so that B happens instead |
| 20:34.56 | maquis | i dunno |
| 20:35.04 | emcnabb | :-) |
| 20:35.06 | dataw0lf | anyone else attending PyCon? |
| 20:35.33 | rsimpkins | Should be a good one - whish i was going. |
| 20:35.34 | maquis | my olpc is supposed to arrive tomorrow! |
| 20:35.52 | Sargun | neato |
| 20:36.39 | rsimpkins | I'm not sure why the OLPC guys don't just keep it wide open for anyone to buy. If they setup a channel for single-laptop distribution - it could be good for them. |
| 20:36.51 | maquis | rsimpkins: trust me... |
| 20:37.02 | maquis | they don't have the infrastructure for distributing within the US |
| 20:37.10 | rsimpkins | That's what I mean. |
| 20:37.25 | rsimpkins | If they built or outsourced that infrustructure - I think it would go well for them. |
| 20:37.43 | emcnabb | rsimpkins, mine won't be here for 2 months |
| 20:37.43 | Sargun | To amazon |
| 20:38.37 | rsimpkins | emcnabb: Yeah, I don't think they had a clue or the expertise to sell individual laptops like that. |
| 20:38.49 | rsimpkins | It is a great idea though. |
| 20:39.02 | rsimpkins | They should partner with someone like Dell for the delivery/fulfillment. |
| 20:39.25 | rsimpkins | Then OLPC can mass ship crates full of them to Dell, then you can buy them from the Dell site. |
| 20:39.34 | rsimpkins | The more of those babies they crank out - the better. |
| 20:41.09 | rsimpkins | I'm not sure the management of the OLPC is interested in doing that though. |
| 20:42.20 | emcnabb | I don't think Dell does |
| 20:42.32 | emcnabb | since in a way the OLPC competes against their products |
| 20:43.10 | Jayce^ | http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=2581482 |
| 20:43.12 | brac | [ksl.com - Standoff in Eagle Mountain] |
| 20:43.15 | Jayce^ | no, it's not me :) |
| 20:43.19 | rsimpkins | I don't expect CEOs of corporations to have realistic views of the world - so. :) |
| 20:44.32 | dataw0lf | Jayce^: it's sad, but the first thing I think when I see stuff like that is: I wonder what type of gear he's using? |
| 20:44.59 | emcnabb | Jayce^, "The suspect loves to go paint balling, is a wanna-be Perl haxor, and enjoys kicking innocent people from IRC channels" |
| 20:45.01 | Jayce^ | dataw0lf, :) yeah, mine was also along the lines of, "I could get him from my house" |
| 20:45.05 | Jayce^ | very close to my house |
| 20:45.14 | *** kick/#utah [emcnabb!n=jayce@pollux.northsky.com] by Jayce^ (what was that?) |
| 20:45.17 | rsimpkins | lol |
| 20:45.19 | dataw0lf | hehe |
| 20:45.25 | *** join/#utah emcnabb (n=emcnabb@nat/redhat/x-8f5d78fd60322416) |
| 20:45.29 | emcnabb | my point exactly! |
| 20:45.39 | Jayce^ | come see the violence inherent in the system |
| 20:46.11 | rsimpkins | There was a standoff in slc in an apartment complex I lived in. The police have some awesome gear. |
| 20:46.19 | rsimpkins | We got to see the robot they use in action. |
| 20:47.01 | emcnabb | Jayce^, how far is that from your place? |
| 20:47.01 | rsimpkins | They have this truck with a telescoping platform and a high-powered camera on the top. They can raise it above buildings and look on the other side, etc. |
| 20:47.05 | emcnabb | I know you live in EM |
| 20:47.28 | Jayce^ | emcnabb, within range :) |
| 20:47.35 | dataw0lf | hehe |
| 20:47.36 | emcnabb | wow |
| 20:48.01 | Jayce^ | there is a hill between us (neighborhood wraps around said hill) |
| 20:48.05 | Jayce^ | up top would be perfect |
| 20:48.29 | Jayce^ | actually, looking at the old openclue mapping info, smorris from the feed lives right by him |
| 20:49.06 | fozzmoo | Jayce^: So you could do a scorched earth type thing with this guy. ;-) |
| 20:52.34 | rsimpkins | In these cases, the police always try to resolve it peacefully. I have to wonder - why don't they just all go home? |
| 20:52.48 | rsimpkins | Everyone leaves, and they park an unmarked car down the street. |
| 20:52.53 | rsimpkins | When he comes out, nab him. |
| 20:53.19 | rsimpkins | I guess they have to justify all that fancy equipment. |
| 20:53.51 | tensai | dataw0lf, levi: heh (re: the miracles) |
| 20:58.20 | rsimpkins | Jayce^: Has plug ever censored the mailing list - ever? I don't think we have, and I don't think we should start. |
| 20:58.35 | Jayce^ | nope, it's a community forum |
| 20:58.42 | Jayce^ | that's been the mantra the whole time |
| 20:58.49 | elg | we may once have removed a spammer or something |
| 20:58.53 | elg | from subscription |
| 20:59.01 | Jayce^ | it's a free market, and I'll be @$#% if I change that |
| 20:59.26 | elg | you'll be qbert? |
| 20:59.46 | rsimpkins | Jayce^: 100% agreed. |
| 20:59.46 | Jayce^ | ooh, love the reference.. |
| 21:01.30 | levi | Here's a nugget of smorrey wisdom: "Mutex locks are so cheap that they are almost free, so always remember When In Doubt Lock It Out!" |
| 21:02.06 | Jayce^ | erk |
| 21:02.28 | levi | This is from his blog describing the implementation of his MMORPG server. |
| 21:02.48 | Jayce^ | levi, you're actually going out looking for *more* from him? |
| 21:03.24 | levi | Jayce^: I only check it occasionally, to see if he's actually doing anything or if it's just hot air. |
| 21:03.49 | levi | It does appear that he's sticking with this particular project, though it's progressing at a snail's pace. |
| 21:04.38 | levi | Besides, I have a weakness for following the blogs of the terminally deluded. Like Vorlath! |
| 21:05.32 | dataw0lf | man |
| 21:05.33 | levi | Well, I follow lots of other blogs, too. |
| 21:05.38 | dataw0lf | where did Steve Morrey come from? |
| 21:05.53 | Jayce^ | not sure, but he says he might be heading out your way now |
| 21:05.54 | dataw0lf | does the DailyWTF have a sanitarium we don't know about? |
| 21:06.29 | dataw0lf | Jayce^: that's swell. |
| 21:09.15 | dataw0lf | I'm thinking of moving back to Salt Lake, or maybe Austin. |
| 21:09.27 | dataw0lf | hard to find my girlfriend a viable job though |
| 21:10.22 | herlo | dataw0lf: what's she do? |
| 21:11.18 | dataw0lf | herlo: currently she's the managing editor for QuinStreet. Manages around ~100 writers or so. She's a good writer as well, however (and perhaps obviously). |
| 21:11.37 | dataw0lf | but journalistic / content editing jobs are hard to find, apparently. |
| 21:11.55 | Jayce^ | well, most of those places are laying off like crazy nowadays |
| 21:12.46 | herlo | yeah, that's kind of a scary industry to be in. I did work for a Newspaper software company in Springville before Guru and they may need something like that |
| 21:12.47 | elg | the world doesn't need writers anymore. we have brac |
| 21:12.49 | elg | -chat |
| 21:12.51 | brac | I am not able to buy egold using your script through javascript links without being in Florida |
| 21:13.05 | herlo | dataw0lf: its called Digital Technology International, not very newspaperish title though |
| 21:13.06 | elg | note to self: buy egold in florida |
| 21:13.23 | dataw0lf | herlo: hmm, thanks dude. |
| 21:13.28 | dataw0lf | Jayce^: no kidding. |
| 21:13.53 | dataw0lf | trying to get her back into law school. |
| 21:14.32 | *** join/#utah vontrapp (n=von@71-35-238-223.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 21:15.02 | elg | -chat about he was |
| 21:15.03 | brac | he was a lot better than it does what I get very, very little about it. And die |
| 21:15.26 | dataw0lf | brac seems depressed |
| 21:15.36 | elg | -chat is it |
| 21:15.36 | brac | but chat is it |
| 21:15.37 | brac | is it still beats a lot of things, I don't personally have a ton more verbose |
| 21:15.55 | elg | -chat |
| 21:15.57 | brac | She watched the game, not the word |
| 21:19.08 | findlay | -chat stuff |
| 21:19.09 | brac | stuff was fun. :D |
| 21:19.11 | findlay | yay |
| 21:19.28 | vontrapp | -chat findlay |
| 21:19.29 | brac | findlay did it come to think it works. |
| 21:19.59 | vontrapp | hmm, what's the darwin command to add a group? |
| 21:20.11 | findlay | vigr |
| 21:20.16 | Sargun | vigr? |
| 21:20.21 | findlay | visarg |
| 21:20.49 | elg | vontrapp: vim /etc/gruop ? |
| 21:21.12 | elg | -metar klru |
| 21:21.13 | brac | KLRU 312112Z AUTO 01004KT 10SM CLR 07/M27 A3025 RMK AO2 |
| 21:21.27 | fozzmoo | See? Red Hat (derivatives) aren't so bad. groupadd? Now that kinda makes sense. |
| 21:22.06 | elg | addgroup? groupadd? vigr? can't we all just get along? |
| 21:22.30 | elg | i for one was ticked off and bitten more than once by redhat having both addgroup and groupadd with different semantics |
| 21:22.44 | elg | and i utterly incapable of remembering which is which |
| 21:22.45 | fozzmoo | Yeah- back in the old days. |
| 21:22.49 | fozzmoo | Only groupadd now |
| 21:24.00 | vontrapp | elg: /etc/gruop is empty, maybe darwin doesn't use that file? :p |
| 21:24.53 | fozzmoo | ~lart vontrapp |
| 21:24.53 | ibot | stuffs vontrapp into a shiny new tin can and vacuum seals it |
| 21:25.03 | fozzmoo | Ooooh shiny! |
| 21:25.10 | findlay | ~tin |
| 21:25.11 | ibot | from memory, tin is a weird newsreader that is on crack. Available in the Debian standard distribution. |
| 21:25.19 | vontrapp | but now i have to come up with the next unused group number on my own :( |
| 21:25.25 | fozzmoo | hee hee. |
| 21:25.55 | vontrapp | cut -d : -f 3 /etc/group | sort -n |
| 21:26.00 | vontrapp | cut is my hero |
| 21:26.04 | vontrapp | and sort |
| 21:26.24 | elg | my favorite new (to me) idiom is |
| 21:26.35 | vontrapp | hmm, is there any semantics to different ranges of group numbers? |
| 21:26.40 | elg | du -s * | sort -n |
| 21:26.53 | jsmith | elg: du -cks * | sort -n |
| 21:27.00 | findlay | elg: `du -sk | sort -n`? |
| 21:27.04 | jsmith | (a.k.a. the "ducks" command) |
| 21:27.04 | vontrapp | elg: yeah, that one is fun |
| 21:27.18 | vontrapp | i wish you could display human form and still be able to sort it though |
| 21:27.27 | elg | i spent who-knows-how-long doing du -sh and bemoaning that I couldn't sort it |
| 21:27.28 | findlay | vontrapp: I thought that there are privileged group numbers |
| 21:27.50 | elg | i once tried du -s | sort, but that didn't work because it wasn't a numeric sort |
| 21:28.01 | elg | then I (re)learned about sort -n |
| 21:28.18 | findlay | yay for sort and sort -u |
| 21:28.46 | vontrapp | sort -findlay |
| 21:29.01 | vontrapp | sorts things in arbitrary order, inasmuch as arbitrary is annoying |
| 21:29.13 | Tene | bogosort++ |
| 21:30.01 | vontrapp | well, there's 74-81 used, and sparse other ranges here and there |
| 21:30.10 | vontrapp | like, 99 is all on it's own |
| 21:30.19 | ^Migs^ | okay, what is happening in this comic? http://www.microsoft.com/heroeshappenhere/cool-stuff/comic/default.mspx |
| 21:31.16 | Kemotaha | ^Migs^: a hacker is getting a table he didn't pay for |
| 21:31.44 | vontrapp | ^Migs^: that's microsoft saying it's okay if they have bugs, as long as there's a paper somewhere that says the right thing |
| 21:33.02 | neybar | I still don't get it |
| 21:33.04 | ^Migs^ | so print out receipts because...technology sucks? |
| 21:33.05 | ^Migs^ | me neither |
| 21:33.44 | Kemotaha | ^Migs^: you are not supposed to get it. you are supposed to give microsoft all your money. |
| 21:33.50 | Kemotaha | :) |
| 21:34.00 | vontrapp | office lost your research paper? that's ok because you printed it on PAPER! didn't you?? |
| 21:34.35 | vontrapp | in fact, it's awesome that it was lost, because that printed version is as good as turned in! |
| 21:35.40 | vontrapp | ^Migs^: what are you doing drinking microsoft koolaid anyway? |
| 21:35.51 | ^Migs^ | well, CLEARLY this isn't Microsoft software she's using that lost her receipt |
| 21:36.00 | elg | it's communist software |
| 21:36.15 | ^Migs^ | clearly. |
| 21:36.31 | findlay | haha |
| 21:37.27 | vontrapp | it sounds to me like it was *her* website |
| 21:37.35 | rsimpkins | Hopefully my post is recieved well. The jist? FLAME ON! |
| 21:37.39 | vontrapp | but the whole thing is just confusing |
| 21:38.48 | elg | clearly the whole point of the comic is that some big oaf is foiled by the hot chick with paper, because he just doesn't get *it* |
| 21:39.06 | elg | the magic whatever that lets you know what the software really meant instead of what it says on screen. |
| 21:42.27 | rsimpkins | I love the "MS gives you windows, Linux gives you the whole house" poster. |
| 21:42.37 | levi | Heh, so Vorlath thinks the proof of the uncomputability of the Halting Problem is bogus. |
| 21:43.31 | elg | nice |
| 21:44.26 | levi | http://my.opera.com/Vorlath/blog/2007/12/09/awakenings |
| 21:45.04 | maquis | hey... to his credit, at least he's questioning assumptions |
| 21:45.25 | maquis | perhaps not intelligently |
| 21:45.46 | maquis | but still |
| 21:45.48 | levi | Questioning assumptions doesn't do you any good if you don't do it intelligently. |
| 21:46.56 | maquis | levi: true... but there may be more value to someone who questions assumptions unintelligently than someone who accepts all assumptions without questions |
| 21:47.35 | maquis | because in questioning assumptions unintelligently, they may be able to set off a spark in the mind of someone more intelligent |
| 21:48.24 | levi | Humans typically operate on a set of cultural and societal norms, because we're not very good at actually thinking things through. Experience and training program us with default responses that have, through the years, developed into pretty good ways to deal with things. |
| 21:48.55 | levi | We require quite a bit of training before we become at all proficient in reasoning. |
| 21:49.18 | levi | And it's very easy to take a little bit of flawed reasoning and run off a cliff with it. |
| 21:49.47 | levi | Not that questioning is bad... it's certainly good, but this guy is not questioning, he's denying. |
| 21:50.39 | levi | If you're questioning, you're looking for an answer. If you're denying, you're looking to tell the world it's wrong. That places the burden of proof on you, and that means you need to be very good at reasoning. |
| 21:51.00 | dataw0lf | 9/11 conspiracy theorists: all the proof you need that unintelligently questioning something is bad (albeit amusing for the rest of us) |
| 21:51.47 | dataw0lf | it's the same line of thought that brings you to people making comments: "Yea, well, you have to prove Bigfoot DOESN'T exist!" |
| 21:52.21 | dataw0lf | ah levi already went the burden of proof route. |
| 21:54.21 | maquis | levi: i'm saying that the questioning part is not a bad thing |
| 21:54.42 | dataw0lf | I question that you exist maquis |
| 21:54.44 | levi | maquis: And you said that without the slightest idea of what this guy is actually doing. |
| 21:54.45 | maquis | questioning, then not intelligently investigating is bad |
| 21:55.23 | maquis | but i would say that somebody asking "is this assumption true?" is not a bad thing, in and of itself |
| 21:55.44 | levi | Which is irrelevant to this discussion, because he's not doing that. |
| 21:55.51 | tensai | dataw0lf: the 9/11 conspiracy is true. I heard there was a guy on one of the planes who was totally going to create a car that ran on water. so the oil companies hired the terrorists to blow him up. |
| 21:57.02 | dataw0lf | tensai: Ahhh! Was this special water, from Atlantis? |
| 21:57.13 | dataw0lf | because only the hidden Atlantis empire's water contains enough to energy to perform such a feat! |
| 21:57.19 | dataw0lf | -to |
| 21:57.52 | tensai | dataw0lf: yeah, that's the one. you mix it 100:1 with bigfoot urine. |
| 21:58.56 | dataw0lf | yea, I hear it's even more powerful than cold fusion. |
| 22:03.52 | *** join/#utah ccjoe (n=ccjoe@75-169-12-84.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 22:04.49 | maquis | levi: ok. apparently my intention did not go across correctly. |
| 22:04.51 | Jayce^ | yeah, but I'd bill for the stream |
| 22:09.35 | herlo | yes, I know its quiet, but you should be able to get on now |
| 22:09.36 | vontrapp | herlo: it's quiet i can't hear anything! |
| 22:09.42 | herlo | jhancock___: I'm at the meeting |
| 22:09.42 | herlo | http://stream.utosf.org:8080 |
| 22:09.42 | brac | [Icecast Streaming Media Server] |
| 22:09.45 | herlo | vontrapp: turn up the volume |
| 22:10.16 | tensai | vontrapp: take those vienna sausages out of your ears too |
| 22:10.27 | vontrapp | oh i was just giving you a hard time, i thought you weren't completely ready yet |
| 22:10.36 | vontrapp | didn't know it was actually impossible to hear |
| 22:10.38 | herlo | vontrapp: we're ready |
| 22:11.08 | vontrapp | yeah i can't hear a thing, the hum is louder than the talking |
| 22:11.26 | vontrapp | heard something about a daughters laptop |
| 22:11.59 | herlo | we're doing all that we can, I'm planning on replacing the mic with an amplified one this week |
| 22:12.05 | Jayce^ | I've got a hum, that's about it |
| 22:12.33 | herlo | the sound is there, I can hear it, but you need headphones |
| 22:13.14 | vontrapp | what about when my computer decides to notify me of mail and blasts my eardrums out? |
| 22:13.20 | neybar | yeah, I can hear some faint background noises |
| 22:15.46 | *** join/#utah djsmith (n=djsmith@12.191.193.40) |
| 22:16.44 | bmidgley | what do you guys use to play the stream from ubuntu |
| 22:17.03 | vontrapp | mplayer -playlist |
| 22:17.12 | vontrapp | but i'm an odd ubuntu user |
| 22:17.18 | herlo | join #utos for the discussion in irc |
| 22:20.52 | *** join/#utah pmcnabb__ (n=peter@draco.mcnabbs.org) |
| 22:21.21 | *** join/#utah pmcnabb (n=peter@komodo.mcnabbs.org) |
| 22:22.16 | *** join/#utah TimRiker (n=timr@68.27.230.129) |
| 22:22.16 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 22:22.33 | pmcnabb | hey, i just jumped on clint's stream and can't really hear anything.. has this just been discussed? :) |
| 22:23.43 | dataw0lf | pmcnabb: join #utos |
| 22:23.50 | dataw0lf | (and it's been discussed at length) |
| 22:23.55 | brac | [Utah Legislature HB0139] |
| 23:05.46 | *** part/#utah djsmith (n=djsmith@12.191.193.40) |
| 23:15.40 | TimRiker | it's over. good conversation, no real conclusions. |
| 23:21.03 | unum | so I've got a spreadsheet like interface I'm using in a web app |
| 23:21.32 | unum | and I need to hide and show certain columns and rows based off of what "tab" the user has clicked |
| 23:22.05 | unum | I've been using the name attribute and getElementsByName to do this so far |
| 23:22.11 | unum | is there a better way |
| 23:22.35 | unum | (I now have 4 tabs instead of two) |
| 23:23.46 | unum | plus I'm dynamicly updating the data |
| 23:24.00 | unum | for some reasons my columns keep shifting... |
| 23:30.10 | *** join/#utah shnockshnee_ (n=shnocksh@66-240-25-49.isp.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 23:45.53 | *** join/#utah sinuhe (n=user@1137host55.starwoodbroadband.com) |
| 23:56.41 | findlay | ~random |
| 23:58.16 | *** join/#utah ManarD- (i=chickhun@89.43.175.47) |
| 23:59.32 | maquis | ~random |
| 23:59.39 | brac | [Handhelds.org - Linux on HP iPAQ H3900] |
