| 00:20.49 | findlay | levi: I appreciate you taking the time to debate with me on plug. I think my views have somewhat moderated as a result |
| 00:55.07 | *** join/#utah wps (n=wps@208.53.47.251) |
| 01:00.15 | rsimpkins | Does anyone remember the name of that ice-cream cake-like treat sold nationaly that had layers of ice-cream and chocolate? |
| 01:00.32 | rsimpkins | It came in the form of a brick, about that same size. |
| 01:00.55 | rsimpkins | It had some fancy name and I can't recal what it was. |
| 01:01.13 | Supaplex | dynamite sammich? |
| 01:01.26 | rsimpkins | That's not fancy - but sounds good. :) |
| 01:01.27 | Supaplex | klondike? |
| 01:01.42 | Supaplex | Half-Life 2 Collector's Edition for $9 shipped? yay me! |
| 01:01.46 | rsimpkins | No, it was very thin layers of chocolate and ice cream stacked on top of each other. |
| 01:02.03 | rsimpkins | Oh, I have a free HL2 and HL2:EP1 if anyone wants it. |
| 01:02.20 | Supaplex | dunno if I have ep1 |
| 01:02.31 | Supaplex | is that after hl2? |
| 01:03.07 | rsimpkins | Yeah, they have ep1 and ep2 out. |
| 01:03.25 | Supaplex | ahh cool. I'll take ep1 :) |
| 01:03.36 | Supaplex | unless ebay #320207693520 has it already |
| 01:06.23 | pelaofeliz | rsimpkins: is it viennetta? |
| 01:06.57 | pelaofeliz | http://images.google.com/images?q=viennetta&ie=UTF-8&oe=utf-8&rls=com.ubuntu:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&sa=N&tab=wi |
| 01:15.32 | *** join/#utah dataw0lf (n=stderr@71.94.83.183) |
| 01:22.15 | fozzmoo | Dang it. I didn't read my PLUG post before I posted. Errors abound! |
| 01:33.10 | rsimpkins | pelaofeliz: yes! |
| 01:33.22 | rsimpkins | pelaofeliz: Thanks, your awefully good to come up with that given my sparse clues |
| 01:34.28 | pelaofeliz | I knew exactly what you were talking about -- I couldn't remember either\ |
| 01:34.35 | pelaofeliz | google came to the rescue eventually |
| 01:34.47 | rsimpkins | Wikipedia has a link to a video of how they make it. |
| 01:39.39 | rsimpkins | fozzmoo: which part, and I might be able to change it? |
| 01:41.13 | findlay | yay, looks like I helped get a good debate going on PLUG :-) |
| 01:42.10 | rsimpkins | findlay: Oh, sorry - you mean e-mail list. :S |
| 01:43.20 | rsimpkins | findlay: What was your post? |
| 02:17.30 | tristanbob | what are the names of those music websites that "learn" what music you like? I can't remember their names |
| 02:18.11 | jsmith | Pandora |
| 02:18.12 | jsmith | last.fm |
| 02:18.31 | tristanbob | Pandora and Last.fm - which do you like? |
| 02:18.58 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@216.31.27.110) |
| 02:20.47 | tristanbob | looks like last.fm bases it on what people who are like you have recommended |
| 02:21.04 | tristanbob | and pandora uses criteria of the music itself |
| 02:21.12 | jsmith | My little Nokia n810 has a great last.fm client |
| 02:21.14 | tristanbob | I think I like the idea behind last.fm as well |
| 02:21.29 | tristanbob | jsmith, I will have to see what software client I have for Ubuntu.... |
| 02:21.35 | vontrapp | i like imms |
| 02:22.22 | bmidgley | jsmith i look forward to having an n810 some day |
| 02:22.38 | vontrapp | i look forward to having a neo 1974 |
| 02:22.47 | jsmith | tristanbob: Several of the Linux media players support last.fm |
| 02:24.33 | tristanbob | looks like they have a linux client |
| 02:42.46 | tristanbob | how does last.fm learn waht songs I like? |
| 02:43.15 | tristanbob | by saying I "love" it? or simply by how long I listen to a song |
| 02:48.11 | Supaplex | anyone know how to print an oversized png off a mac on multiple sheets? |
| 02:48.44 | Supaplex | I'm using preview, but the print properties only seem to offer scale/shrink to fit as the closest option. |
| 02:55.10 | vontrapp | tristanbob: don't know how last.fm works, but imms is 100% passive |
| 02:55.36 | vontrapp | e.g. "how long i listen to a song" |
| 02:55.43 | vontrapp | but really, it can just tell if you skipped the song |
| 02:56.04 | tristanbob | http://www.imms.com? |
| 02:56.21 | tristanbob | ahhh acronym |
| 02:56.21 | vontrapp | no |
| 02:57.07 | vontrapp | luminal.org |
| 02:57.46 | vontrapp | it also knows when _you_ pick a song, as apposed to it, and gives said song an extra boost |
| 02:58.21 | vontrapp | xmms is the only decent player that works with it |
| 02:58.39 | vontrapp | i made some ad-hoc dealy-o for mpd, but it's not that great |
| 03:03.22 | *** join/#utah ti`ocpi (n=Chelle@michmax.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 03:03.35 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@216.31.27.110) |
| 03:03.42 | tristanbob | new topic - what do you recommend for screencasts? xvidcap, instanbul, recordmydesktop, vnc2swf, etc? |
| 03:06.55 | tristanbob | wink, camstudio |
| 03:08.53 | atoponce | sjansen: i don't see that you've signed my gpg key... have you don'e so, and uploaded to a server, other than pgp.mit.edu? |
| 03:45.41 | *** join/#utah mrpull-lt (n=Jake@mail.pollmann.us) |
| 03:46.28 | mrpull-lt | ~praise netflix for making the switch from dvd to blu-ray automatic |
| 03:46.28 | ibot | All hail netflix for making the switch from dvd to blu-ray automatic! |
| 03:53.18 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@216.31.27.110) |
| 04:30.33 | *** join/#utah fozzmoo (n=fozz@166-70-238-250.ip.xmission.com) |
| 04:30.33 | ibot | gives fozzmoo a stern handshake and a pat on the back. and then kisses him. |
| 05:19.05 | rsimpkins | elg: Sent you an e-mail. |
| 05:22.32 | levi | rsimpkins: Did you seen me one? |
| 05:23.13 | rsimpkins | levi: Do you want me to? :) |
| 05:23.47 | rsimpkins | levi: I think you're getting plenty of e-mail these days, but I'm always happy to send you more. :) |
| 05:24.25 | levi | rsimpkins: You're right, the PLUG list keeps me busy. ;) |
| 05:24.56 | levi | I think I'm about finished with the current debate, though. |
| 05:25.05 | rsimpkins | I love the open policy we have on that list - makes it worthwhile. |
| 05:25.13 | rsimpkins | SLLUG would have shut it down by now. :) |
| 05:25.55 | levi | There's a place for highly-moderated lists, to be sure, but I enjoy free-form communities more. |
| 05:26.36 | rsimpkins | levi: What's what I was pinging hans about - time to set up a couple moderated lists to keep some of the other PLUGers happy who don't really wanna be on the list. |
| 05:27.02 | levi | Are people getting annoyed over the debate? |
| 05:27.23 | rsimpkins | Not that I've heard over this one, yet. :) |
| 05:27.34 | levi | I imagine my arguments against FSF philosophy are bound to irk some people. |
| 05:27.45 | rsimpkins | I see no reason why we can't accomadate these other people though. |
| 05:27.56 | levi | I still chuckle over being called a freedom flusher. :) |
| 05:28.04 | rsimpkins | And I see no reason to interrupt the current list in any way. |
| 05:28.18 | rsimpkins | Who called you that? :) |
| 05:28.34 | levi | From what I've heard, having separate lists has been tried in the past, and the offshots always kind of petered out. |
| 05:28.38 | rsimpkins | Doesn't matter - but that's actually kinda funny. |
| 05:28.39 | levi | Lonnie did. |
| 05:28.43 | rsimpkins | hehe. :) |
| 05:29.00 | levi | Didn't say it directly, but said that I was 'willing to flush freedoms down the toilet' or some such. |
| 05:29.00 | rsimpkins | no, plug is still plug. I'm asking for plug-announce and plug-jobs |
| 05:29.08 | rsimpkins | But i don't want to seperate traffic at all. |
| 05:29.12 | rsimpkins | just augment it. |
| 05:29.29 | levi | Ahh, okay. That sounds potentially useful. |
| 05:29.31 | rsimpkins | I'm not wanting people to sign up for yet another mailing list. |
| 05:29.38 | rsimpkins | Only those who want it. |
| 05:30.34 | levi | So, I think I'm finally starting to get the hang of using monads in Haskell. |
| 05:31.33 | levi | They're kind of crazy, but definitely useful when you have to pass all your state around between functions. |
| 05:32.07 | rsimpkins | Way beyond my ability to understand. :) |
| 05:35.45 | sjansen | Based on experience with the UUG, I wouldn't bother creating a moderated list for PLUG. |
| 05:35.49 | levi | Well, they're initially a bit difficult, but I'm sure you could figure it out with a bit of study. |
| 05:36.29 | rsimpkins | Should say, way beyond my interest in understanding. :) |
| 05:37.05 | rsimpkins | Although it does look interesting. |
| 05:37.16 | sjansen | levi: Have you seen the space ship monad tutorial? I thought it was great. |
| 05:37.29 | levi | sjansen: The one that put space suits on? |
| 05:37.32 | sjansen | yeah |
| 05:37.51 | levi | sjansen: I skimmed that one... I thought I'd figured it out by the time I got to it. Turns out I had a bit more to figure out. :) |
| 05:38.50 | sjansen | You grappling with composing monads yet? That's something I still haven't sat down to understand. |
| 05:40.02 | levi | sjansen: Not yet, but I imagine I'll get there before long. |
| 05:40.23 | levi | I'm currently using the State monad to keep track of my position in the file I'm tokenizing. |
| 05:41.00 | levi | Well, currently it's a string I'm tokenizing. I'm not sure if the IO Monad is going to cause issues when I hook it up to a file. |
| 05:42.23 | sjansen | BTW, I'd love to see a copy of your code when you're done. |
| 05:43.33 | levi | Sure. I'm not sure it's a shining example of good Haskell code, but I'm trying to at least not do things egregiously wrong. |
| 05:44.11 | nick125 | I think performing brain surgery is easier than trying to encode videos for this phone. |
| 05:44.30 | fozzmoo | I think watching brain surgery is easier than watching videos on phones. :) |
| 05:44.49 | nick125 | It wouldn't be *that* bad, it has a nice sized screen (LG VX9400) |
| 05:45.25 | nick125 | I think I've encoded this video in about 94 different ways, and it still doesn't work. |
| 05:45.56 | nick125 | Either the files does not show up at all on the device, it shows up but shows 0:00 length, shows up and shows the correct length but does not play, or a variant of one of those. |
| 05:46.11 | fozzmoo | You know... someone needs to invent some kind of holographic technology that allows cell phones and PDAs to project a screen, 5 times bigger, that looks like it's between your eyes and the phone. |
| 05:46.34 | nick125 | Someone needs to shoot the OS developer of this phone. |
| 05:46.36 | fozzmoo | nick125: I play all kinds of videos on my Treo. |
| 05:46.44 | nick125 | square between the eyes |
| 05:47.06 | nick125 | Yeah, if I was doing this for my Treo, I would've been done an hour ago. |
| 05:47.26 | nick125 | (Yes, I have been going at this for over an hour) |
| 05:47.46 | fozzmoo | What are the alleged requirements for the video? |
| 05:49.08 | nick125 | No idea. |
| 05:49.20 | nick125 | All I know is around 15fps, 320x240 |
| 05:49.33 | nick125 | mp4 is the only supported container format, afaik. |
| 05:49.50 | sjansen | http://blogs.igalia.com/berto/2008/01/22/satanic-messages-in-the-computer-era/ |
| 05:49.53 | nick125 | wmv doesn't work either |
| 05:54.13 | fozzmoo | MP4 is such a nebulous area. |
| 05:54.45 | fozzmoo | Do you have a video that will work? one that you didn't encode? |
| 05:54.52 | nick125 | Nope |
| 05:55.05 | fozzmoo | Bummer. |
| 05:55.15 | nick125 | The only videos on the phone are DRM-protected WMVs |
| 05:55.15 | nick125 | (It's not my phone) |
| 05:55.30 | nick125 | I can't put a WMV on there either, since it seems to be "reserved" for VCast videos |
| 05:55.30 | fozzmoo | Gosh DRM it. |
| 05:56.00 | nick125 | And if you try to play a non-VCast video, it does nothing but bring you to the VCast catalog. |
| 05:57.11 | nick125 | Ugh, libx264 is so ignorant. If you tell it to encode something at 200kbit, it'll encode it at 400kbit. |
| 05:57.29 | fozzmoo | you're playing with mencoder and lavc? |
| 05:57.37 | nick125 | yeah |
| 05:58.05 | nick125 | People on howardforums have gotten videos to work on the 9400, but they're using some propietary windows program. |
| 05:58.11 | fozzmoo | eww. |
| 05:58.17 | fozzmoo | Do you have access to it? |
| 05:58.22 | fozzmoo | The Windows program? |
| 05:58.26 | nick125 | no |
| 05:58.28 | fozzmoo | If you coudl generate a valid video. |
| 05:58.32 | fozzmoo | you could tcprobe it or whatever. |
| 05:58.59 | fozzmoo | When I was encoding videos for my iAudio X5, I had the best luck with transcode. |
| 05:59.14 | fozzmoo | I watched the first episode of Heroes on that thing. |
| 05:59.17 | nick125 | If/When I get this to work, I'm going to engrave the working encoder options on my forehead. |
| 06:00.21 | nick125 | Video stream: 399.445 kbit/s (49930 B/s) size: 14156992 bytes 283.533 secs 6803 frames |
| 06:00.51 | nick125 | I swear, this thing is ignorant. |
| 06:14.12 | *** join/#utah bbeattie (n=media@65.48.77.206) |
| 06:14.27 | nick125 | Let's try ffmpeg...but we'll have to chain the mencoder and ffmpeg commands together, since ffmpeg doesn't support FLV, afaik. |
| 06:14.40 | nick125 | wait. |
| 06:14.41 | nick125 | Selected video codec: [ffflv] vfm: ffmpeg (FFmpeg Flash video) |
| 06:14.44 | nick125 | ... okay. |
| 06:15.08 | fozzmoo | yeah, all the open source flv creators seem to be based on FFMPEG |
| 06:15.34 | nick125 | I just need flv support for the input (I ripped some videos from youtube) |
| 06:18.59 | nick125 | let's see if ffmpeg works better.. |
| 06:28.55 | fozzmoo | :) |
| 06:29.00 | fozzmoo | I wish I could do that. |
| 06:29.20 | nick125 | Well, I finally got it working, but hte source video was really really poor quality :/ |
| 06:29.41 | Supaplex | soo much snow, I ordered :) |
| 06:29.46 | fozzmoo | nick125: Congrats |
| 06:29.55 | *** join/#utah inkynoo1 (n=stuporgl@72.8.105.46) |
| 06:30.22 | nick125 | perhaps youtube wasn't the place to get those videos from. |
| 06:30.41 | fozzmoo | heh |
| 06:31.12 | nick125 | My friend wants music videos. |
| 06:31.43 | Supaplex | nick125: I have one for a printer I sold last week, at http://users.surfthe.us/scotte/ebay/2008-01/ |
| 06:31.43 | fozzmoo | Oh. maybe some of those documentaries and old 50s atomic weapons videos have some music behind them. |
| 06:32.20 | Supaplex | wait, you want .flv files? |
| 06:32.32 | nick125 | Supaplex: I don't care what format the source is in. |
| 06:32.48 | nick125 | As long as either ffmpeg or mencoder can convert it, I don't really care. |
| 06:33.02 | Supaplex | any piticular content? |
| 06:33.17 | nick125 | He gave me a list of music videos he wants on there |
| 06:33.39 | Supaplex | ah ok. nvm my url then. :) |
| 06:33.43 | nick125 | haha |
| 06:40.05 | findlay | can has pizzas? |
| 06:40.59 | findlay | levi: isn't monad what the vista shell is called? |
| 06:42.06 | nick125 | I think monad is the new shell language, which is now known as powershell. |
| 06:42.25 | levi | Yeah, it was the codename for PowerShell. |
| 06:46.06 | levi | That reminds me, I need to practice my guitar. |
| 06:49.05 | inkynoo1 | Looking at the interface for DD-WRT, there's an option for wireless mode including Mixed and BG-Mixed. Anyone know the difference? |
| 06:49.08 | findlay | my laptop suspends to RAM just fine |
| 06:54.30 | levi | Mine do too, but one is Windows and the other is a Mac. |
| 06:56.54 | fozzmoo | heh. |
| 06:57.50 | fozzmoo | inkynoo1: BG-Mixed probably doesn't do A or N. |
| 06:58.33 | inkynoo1 | so on a router that only supports B & G, it's probably equivalent |
| 07:06.05 | Supaplex | brain spaz. what's the bodys natural pain relief? |
| 07:06.24 | inkynoo1 | endorphins? |
| 07:06.35 | Supaplex | yes! thank you. |
| 07:07.05 | inkynoo1 | That and Ibuprofen |
| 07:13.34 | *** join/#utah xbmodder_ (n=Sargun@atarack/staff/sargun) |
| 07:14.25 | xbmodder_ | hey all |
| 07:14.34 | fozzmoo | xbmodder_: meow |
| 07:18.29 | *** join/#utah dataw0lf (n=stderr@71.94.83.183) |
| 07:18.52 | fozzmoo | My heck! * > PHP |
| 07:27.14 | Supaplex | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_I what an evil price that was. |
| 07:27.34 | xbmodder_ | Supaplex, Only if you're old. |
| 07:28.13 | Supaplex | the apple 1 predates me. so no, i'm not old. :-p```` |
| 07:34.54 | *** join/#utah Lakshmi (n=Lakshmi@75-25-129-78.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 07:51.17 | *** part/#utah inkynoo1 (n=stuporgl@72.8.105.46) |
| 07:59.01 | fozzmoo | wooooooo! |
| 08:03.51 | xbmodder_ | uh |
| 08:12.14 | Supaplex | hi Lakshmishmishmishmi |
| 08:21.16 | Lakshmi | hi Supaplex sups? |
| 08:25.49 | Supaplex | coding some a perl app |
| 08:29.15 | xbmodder_ | oh, for? |
| 08:36.29 | Supaplex | freeside |
| 08:37.27 | Supaplex | I've lost count how many times the sponsor changed his mind. :P so I'm writing it different again. |
| 08:38.28 | xbmodder_ | Haha |
| 08:38.34 | xbmodder_ | You should write a GUI app in Perl |
| 08:39.07 | Supaplex | I had fun with a window manager written in perl. |
| 08:56.25 | xbmodder_ | :-( |
| 08:56.27 | xbmodder_ | RedHeron, bad idea |
| 08:56.41 | RedHeron | Yes, I know. :D |
| 08:57.30 | RedHeron | I was only trying to be funny and tie in to the conversation at the same time. |
| 09:32.52 | Supaplex | someday we'll figure out how shepards stay awake when counting their flock. |
| 09:33.01 | Supaplex | but until then, I'm sleeping on it. zzZZzz |
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| 13:16.14 | *** join/#utah redbeard2 (n=redbeard@c-76-27-48-109.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
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| 14:38.50 | elg | ~onjoin dmdavis http://www.phdcomics.com/comics.php?f=967 |
| 14:38.50 | ibot | ok, elg |
| 14:56.18 | Sargun | hello |
| 14:56.23 | Sargun | its cold. |
| 14:56.29 | Sargun | my shin hurts. |
| 14:56.42 | jsmith | hello |
| 14:56.49 | jsmith | it's cold. |
| 14:56.55 | jsmith | my shin doesn't hurt |
| 14:57.20 | Sargun | there is a cute girl sitting several rows behind me and i have no idea how to talk to her. |
| 14:57.42 | Sargun | my guess is she is going to sjc |
| 14:58.07 | Sargun | between scc and sjc there arent many people. |
| 14:58.28 | Sargun | the only problem is i come off as a creep. |
| 14:58.33 | jsmith | Sargun: Walk up to her, say "I was just chatting w/ my friends, and I couldn't help but notice how cute you are..." |
| 14:58.45 | jsmith | Sargun: After that, you turn red and run away screaming ;-) |
| 14:59.02 | Sargun | and she cant sleep either. :-( |
| 14:59.04 | Sargun | heh |
| 14:59.09 | Sargun | two issues |
| 14:59.26 | Sargun | looks like her row is full |
| 14:59.35 | Sargun | she isnt ssleeping |
| 14:59.52 | Sargun | and i dont have anyfriends |
| 14:59.59 | Sargun | er.. on the train. |
| 15:00.23 | *** join/#utah dmdavis (n=dmdavis@67.214.225.122) |
| 15:00.32 | Sargun | i need a way to use my screen as a mirror.... |
| 15:00.56 | Sargun | because its too dangerous looking back |
| 15:06.04 | nick125 | Sargun: get a webcam and have a small window open on your desktop? |
| 15:06.12 | nick125 | Or put it on the back of your chair |
| 15:06.54 | Sargun | haha |
| 15:07.11 | Sargun | i actually jave a webcam in my n810 |
| 15:07.17 | Sargun | genius. |
| 15:07.30 | Sargun | but it uses too much memory. |
| 15:07.44 | Sargun | i need swap over nfs over wifi... |
| 15:07.50 | sjansen | jsmith: Pssssssssssh, everyone knows the correct response is to hover at the edge of her social world unnoticed pining after her for several years. Then when you're old and bitter, write a novel exploring the misery of the human experience. |
| 15:08.23 | nick125 | Sargun: My club is broken from the last stupid idea of yours |
| 15:08.32 | jsmith | nick125: Good one ;-) |
| 15:08.32 | Sargun | haha |
| 15:08.43 | jsmith | sjansen: So true... miserable and rich is in? |
| 15:08.55 | Sargun | i couldnt implement chat over dns because my laptop failed. |
| 15:09.02 | dmdavis | Sargun: right a program to have your webcam take a picture every second, and display it in the window. Would probably use less memory, and would give you adequate refresh |
| 15:09.11 | dmdavis | s/right/write |
| 15:09.42 | Sargun | dmdavis: the image has to be decoded by the v4l driver, |
| 15:09.55 | dmdavis | oh |
| 15:10.11 | Sargun | meaning your moving lots of data around in memory. |
| 15:10.48 | dmdavis | well, one low res picture per second shouldn't be all that much data, not compared to normal full motion webcamness |
| 15:11.09 | Sargun | softdecoders suck |
| 15:11.09 | *** join/#utah thaddeusq (n=thaddeus@216.49.181.128) |
| 15:12.05 | Sargun | im moving to the table opposite of her. |
| 15:12.18 | Sargun | be right back. |
| 15:12.21 | Sargun | :-X |
| 15:13.08 | Sargun | ok. |
| 15:13.27 | Sargun | she is at my right rear. |
| 15:13.31 | sjansen | Thad, Thad, he's our man! If he can't do it.... well, hopefully someone else can or we'll all be up q**y creak. |
| 15:13.56 | Sargun | -dims screen- |
| 15:14.16 | thaddeusq | sjansen: Are you extra irritable without the beard? |
| 15:14.27 | Sargun | what about drawing a heart and a hey and my number on my screeen |
| 15:14.35 | Sargun | and setting it out? |
| 15:14.38 | sjansen | What makes you ask? |
| 15:14.38 | Sargun | votes? |
| 15:14.44 | jsmith | Sargun: Get us a picture first! |
| 15:14.51 | sjansen | This is me being playful, not irritable. |
| 15:15.02 | Sargun | she keeps eying my n8q0 |
| 15:15.09 | Sargun | uh cant |
| 15:15.21 | thaddeusq | sjansen: just thought it was a little early for you to be playful |
| 15:15.35 | Sargun | i have three vga cameras on me and none of them are low profie |
| 15:15.37 | dmdavis | then just write a message in big letters on it. Like "Hi :)". See if she responds. |
| 15:15.43 | Sargun | anyways, heart |
| 15:16.02 | Sargun | dmdavis:lets try it... |
| 15:18.27 | dmdavis | if she reads that, then next write: |
| 15:18.38 | dmdavis | She walks in beauty, like the night |
| 15:18.50 | sjansen | When I woke up with morning, I was dreaming about tweaking the lolcode parser. As I made the transition to conciousness, I continued to think about the lolcode parser but some of the magical clarity disappeared. Dreaming about lolcode'll make anyone playful. |
| 15:19.47 | Sargun | THIS MIGHT BE A BAD IDEA. |
| 15:20.17 | ^Migs^ | crap, I just bought an MP3 player for my daughter, and now woot.com is selling TWO for the same amount I paid. |
| 15:20.34 | ^Migs^ | granted the one I bought was a 2GB, and both of woot's are 512MBs... but my daughter doesn't need that much |
| 15:20.48 | Sargun | hrh. |
| 15:21.02 | dmdavis | Sargun: what might be a bad idea? |
| 15:21.21 | dmdavis | did you just discover that she's married? Or a guy with long hair? |
| 15:22.04 | *** join/#utah thaddeusq (n=thaddeus@216.49.181.128) |
| 15:22.18 | Sargun | what about heart + say hey? |
| 15:23.00 | Sargun | votes? |
| 15:23.44 | Sargun | oh.screw it. why not. |
| 15:25.25 | sjansen | I HAS A BREAKFAST |
| 15:25.25 | sjansen | BREAKFAST R "cereal" |
| 15:25.25 | sjansen | HOW DUZ I EAT YR FUD |
| 15:25.25 | sjansen | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:25.25 | sjansen | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:25.25 | sjansen | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:25.27 | sjansen | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:25.29 | sjansen | IF U SAY SO |
| 15:25.31 | sjansen | EAT BREAKFAST |
| 15:25.33 | *** join/#utah bbeattie (n=media@65.48.77.206) |
| 15:32.29 | *** join/#utah mrpull- (n=misterpu@mail.pollmann.us) |
| 15:35.11 | tensai | apparently windows ping will count icmp unreachable as a successful response |
| 15:35.34 | tensai | that's both sad and funny at the same time |
| 15:45.29 | Sargun | hahaha |
| 15:45.36 | Sargun | dthat sucked |
| 15:46.30 | goozbach | I HAZ A BUCKET |
| 15:46.55 | goozbach | DUMP BUCKET |
| 15:47.00 | goozbach | O RLY? |
| 15:47.04 | jsmith | ~dump goozbach |
| 15:47.05 | dmdavis | Sargun: what? |
| 15:47.16 | jsmith | Sargun: What happened? |
| 15:47.26 | Sargun | uh |
| 15:47.35 | Sargun | she was engaged |
| 15:47.51 | jsmith | Sargun: YOU DIDN'T NOTICE THE RING?!? |
| 15:48.20 | Sargun | and a highly conservative christian... |
| 15:48.37 | Sargun | ima guy, thats not my job... |
| 15:48.55 | dmdavis | you're picking up on a girl. That absolutely _is_ your job. |
| 15:49.23 | Sargun | hahah |
| 15:49.32 | *** join/#utah bmidgley_ (n=bmidgley@201.sub-75-216-99.myvzw.com) |
| 15:50.11 | Sargun | heh. |
| 15:50.24 | dmdavis | but either way, you now know, and the memory of the girl won't haunt your dreams. :) |
| 15:51.04 | Sargun | anywayhs |
| 15:51.30 | Sargun | other than making fun of my blindness |
| 15:51.47 | ^Migs^ | some girl went on a date with me when she was engaged once |
| 15:51.50 | ^Migs^ | she was a total nutjob |
| 15:52.02 | ^Migs^ | not my wife, btw |
| 15:52.06 | Sargun | as are most... |
| 15:52.18 | Sargun | girls that are |
| 15:52.20 | ^Migs^ | girls seriously lack common sense |
| 15:52.21 | dmdavis | ^Migs^: didn't your wife go on any dates with you when she was engaged? :) |
| 15:52.29 | ^Migs^ | dmdavis: Hence my "not my wife, btw" comment. |
| 15:52.43 | ^Migs^ | Please keep up kthx |
| 15:52.45 | dmdavis | :) |
| 15:53.15 | Sargun | migs: what happened to the other kid? |
| 15:53.22 | ^Migs^ | I have no clue |
| 15:53.32 | ^Migs^ | but it doesn't sound like they got off to a good start |
| 15:53.41 | dmdavis | ^Migs^: I interpreted the "not my wife" as meaning that you didn't end up marrying teh girl |
| 15:53.45 | Sargun | oh. |
| 15:53.55 | ^Migs^ | that was my first experience with hooking up with someone I'd met online :) |
| 15:54.17 | Sargun | haha |
| 15:54.34 | goozbach | Sargun: your first job is to look for a ring |
| 15:54.50 | vontrapp | dating an engaged conservative christian is not your job? well, that's a relief |
| 15:54.55 | goozbach | it's now that part of your life where that is important |
| 15:54.56 | ^Migs^ | If girls with rings don't want guys hitting on them, they need to stop flirting. |
| 15:54.59 | findlay | a Ring of Power |
| 15:55.15 | findlay | the last date I went on, the girl had a Ring of Power |
| 15:55.28 | findlay | it gave here various abilities |
| 15:55.33 | findlay | s/re// |
| 15:55.41 | dmdavis | :| |
| 15:55.41 | findlay | s/re/r/ |
| 15:56.11 | findlay | :< |
| 15:56.14 | findlay | :> |
| 15:56.18 | Sargun | crap, does thni |
| 15:56.18 | Sargun | .. |
| 15:57.08 | vontrapp | thnikoman? |
| 15:57.25 | Sargun | uh. |
| 15:57.29 | Sargun | nothing |
| 15:58.11 | findlay | Sargun must have just dropped his n810 being engaged in a heady light saber duel on the train |
| 15:58.12 | Sargun | my irc client failed tp rewrite m curses |
| 15:58.26 | findlay | oh, well, if that's all it was ... |
| 15:58.33 | Sargun | walking to work |
| 15:59.10 | Sargun | my n810 is worth it. |
| 15:59.45 | Sargun | it proves useful as sketchpad. |
| 15:59.48 | *** join/#utah sinuhe (n=sinuhe@fencepost.gnu.org) |
| 16:00.01 | goozbach | sinuhe: long time no see |
| 16:00.06 | goozbach | how's it going? |
| 16:00.48 | *** join/#utah sinuhe (n=sinuhe@fencepost.gnu.org) |
| 16:01.07 | Sargun | i hneed a hand warmer |
| 16:01.22 | Sargun | maybe an iphone. |
| 16:03.45 | goozbach | stuffitus? |
| 16:04.05 | goozbach | methinks that's a guru inflicted problem |
| 16:04.18 | Sargun | uh |
| 16:05.00 | *** join/#utah Kemotaha (n=Kemotaha@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 16:05.03 | Sargun | what phone does gooz have |
| 16:05.13 | goozbach | treo755p |
| 16:05.23 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@216.31.27.110) |
| 16:05.51 | goozbach | Sargun != sinuhe |
| 16:05.52 | elg | ~distract goozbach |
| 16:05.52 | ibot | ACTION puts on a brunet wig and saunters past goozbach with a cold beer in her hand. "Hello, sailor! Wanna go for a ride?" |
| 16:06.29 | dmdavis | http://www.linux.com/feature/124918 |
| 16:09.03 | *** join/#utah wps (n=wps@64.0.192.94) |
| 16:10.31 | *** join/#utah xbmodder_ (n=Sargun@atarack/staff/sargun) |
| 16:11.03 | *** mode/#utah [+o Jayce^] by ChanServ |
| 16:11.18 | *** join/#utah fozzmo1 (n=fozz@66.7.122.158) |
| 16:12.38 | *** join/#utah fozzmoo (n=fozz@66.7.122.158) |
| 16:12.38 | ibot | gives fozzmoo a stern handshake and a pat on the back. and then kisses him. |
| 16:12.48 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@216.31.27.110) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 16:12.48 | *** join/#utah undertakingyou (n=will@undertakingyou.dsl.xmission.com) |
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| 16:12.48 | *** join/#utah RyanE (i=Piadas@rberick.dsl.xmission.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 16:15.44 | goozbach | sontek: me no likey git |
| 16:15.55 | goozbach | s/svn/bzr/ |
| 16:16.39 | sjansen | git iz da bombz! |
| 16:16.53 | goozbach | but it's not bzr |
| 16:17.02 | sjansen | It's got some sharp, pokey edges, true.... |
| 16:17.10 | xbmodder_ | Wow, european chicks have hot voices. |
| 16:17.20 | fozzmoo | xbmodder_: Generally speaking. |
| 16:17.24 | sjansen | I'll grant you that bzr is more warm and cuddley.... |
| 16:17.24 | xbmodder_ | I'm not going to be able to talk to this NOC |
| 16:18.11 | sjansen | git rebase -i # uber cool |
| 16:18.15 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@216.31.27.110) |
| 16:18.25 | goozbach | rebase -i? |
| 16:18.27 | fozzmoo | jsmith: ping |
| 16:18.30 | goozbach | what does it do? |
| 16:18.34 | xbmodder_ | wow, they have worse music |
| 16:18.37 | jsmith | fozzmoo: Pong |
| 16:18.37 | xbmodder_ | than us americans |
| 16:18.40 | xbmodder_ | for hold music |
| 16:19.06 | sjansen | It slices and dices your commit history, turning it into pretty patch sets. |
| 16:19.42 | sjansen | git svn also makes me happy. |
| 16:21.23 | Jayce^ | sjansen is freebasing? |
| 16:21.45 | sjansen | It's the only way to fly. |
| 16:22.54 | goozbach | giggle!! |
| 16:22.55 | sjansen | Toward? |
| 16:22.55 | goozbach | snort! |
| 16:23.00 | Jayce^ | deeper into I should say |
| 16:23.01 | goozbach | toward!!!!! |
| 16:23.04 | goozbach | pineapple! |
| 16:23.17 | Jayce^ | better hurry and order then :) |
| 16:23.32 | goozbach | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:23.52 | Jayce^ | I notice you didn't want that logged.. |
| 16:24.26 | jsmith | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:24.40 | Jayce^ | goozbach is just complaining about being married now |
| 16:24.48 | Jayce^ | guess he doesn't want her seeing that |
| 16:25.25 | goozbach | Jayce^: I am not |
| 16:25.32 | xbmodder_ | heh |
| 16:25.32 | xbmodder_ | sure |
| 16:25.42 | tensai | Jayce^: I got it running |
| 16:25.58 | Jayce^ | nice |
| 16:26.05 | xbmodder_ | Nice. |
| 16:26.13 | *** join/#utah neybar (n=jalance@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 16:26.18 | *** join/#utah tiwula (n=lane@208.64.90.18.static.utahbroadband.com) |
| 16:26.20 | xbmodder_ | Its 43F |
| 16:26.29 | *** join/#utah brasto (n=brasto@out.lnxi.com) |
| 16:28.27 | *** join/#utah fungus (n=olsonl@2001:5c0:8fff:fffe:0:0:0:1647) |
| 16:32.30 | *** join/#utah TimRiker (n=timr@70-7-211-238.area7.spcsdns.net) |
| 16:32.30 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 16:32.43 | xbmodder_ | TimRiker, where are you? |
| 16:33.13 | xbmodder_ | sl-esri-97935-0.sprintlink.net |
| 16:33.15 | xbmodder_ | Pheonix? |
| 16:33.24 | xbmodder_ | Arizona area... |
| 16:37.13 | xbmodder_ | Salt Link> |
| 16:37.14 | xbmodder_ | er |
| 16:37.18 | xbmodder_ | Salkt Lake? |
| 16:37.19 | xbmodder_ | ESRI? |
| 16:39.16 | tensai | xbmodder_: why do you care? |
| 16:39.48 | goozbach | gotta have my caffiene rush last |
| 16:40.06 | xbmodder_ | Tene, Just wondering |
| 16:40.17 | TimRiker | xbmodder_: slc, on sprint wireless (and other connections) |
| 16:43.10 | xbmodder_ | oh |
| 16:46.06 | *** join/#utah dataw0lf (n=stderr@adsl-75-14-203-206.dsl.renocs.sbcglobal.net) |
| 16:52.35 | findlay | xbmodder_: maybe you wanted to know where your cat was |
| 16:53.16 | findlay | hes on ur nokia writing ur codez |
| 17:00.05 | xbmodder_ | O RLY? |
| 17:00.40 | goozbach | I didn't fall off the wagon |
| 17:00.43 | goozbach | I jumped! |
| 17:00.48 | goozbach | and started running the other way |
| 17:01.33 | xbmodder_ | oh... |
| 17:04.08 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@dhcp07.cs.nmsu.edu) |
| 17:05.03 | tensai | yay! |
| 17:05.25 | elg | p |
| 17:10.33 | fozzmoo | Man! |
| 17:10.46 | fozzmoo | My back, my arms, my shoulders are all stiff and achy today. |
| 17:10.57 | fozzmoo | A foot of snow'll do that to ya. |
| 17:11.55 | elg | you've been shoveling old ladies' driveways? |
| 17:12.32 | fozzmoo | My wife isn't that old. :) |
| 17:12.48 | elg | -weather klru |
| 17:12.49 | tensai | from the sounds of it, fozzmoo *is* the old lady |
| 17:13.00 | elg | ~weather klru |
| 17:14.32 | fozzmoo | jsmith: ping ping |
| 17:23.15 | levi | Hmm, I said I was done with that argument, didn't I? Alas. |
| 17:23.52 | findlay | ~argue levi |
| 17:23.52 | ibot | levi: shut your festering gob, you tit! your type really makes me puke. |
| 17:24.03 | findlay | ~language ibot |
| 17:24.04 | ibot | ACTION grabs ibot by the ear and washes ibot's mouth out with soap |
| 17:24.20 | *** join/#utah bonez39 (n=scott@75.144.9.237) |
| 17:24.40 | fozzmoo | Jayce^: Someone died?! |
| 17:24.57 | Jayce^ | yeah, a CSR, you remember Ed? |
| 17:25.06 | Jayce^ | older guy |
| 17:25.24 | fozzmoo | I don't think I do remember him. What happened? |
| 17:25.31 | Jayce^ | heart attack |
| 17:25.39 | fozzmoo | He wasn't shoveling show or anything was he? |
| 17:25.50 | Jayce^ | afaik no |
| 17:25.57 | fozzmoo | Well, that suxx. |
| 17:28.10 | Supaplex | Ed? Ed who? |
| 17:28.25 | Jayce^ | not a geek, only people that worked here would know him |
| 17:28.35 | Supaplex | ahh. ok |
| 17:30.44 | mrpull- | i just got a voicemail from a (presumably) Indian salesman that sounded like a voice synthesis program |
| 17:30.58 | findlay | heh |
| 17:30.59 | Supaplex | hehe |
| 17:31.05 | mrpull- | from my TI-99 4a from my childhood |
| 17:31.12 | mrpull- | seriously |
| 17:31.13 | findlay | vm spam |
| 17:31.25 | mrpull- | it was odd... i had to play it a couple times to make sure it was a live voice |
| 17:32.30 | Supaplex | well, we're not using piddlyoh TI 99 4a's anymore. |
| 17:32.36 | *** join/#utah sjansen (n=sjansen@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com) |
| 17:34.15 | *** topic/#utah by sjansen -> Off Topic and Beyond | http://plug.org/irc | Channel log @ http://ibot.rikers.org/%23utah/ | levi is a freedom flusher |
| 17:35.08 | mrpull- | Supaplex: hey... nothing was better than loading those basic programs from audio cassette |
| 17:35.20 | mrpull- | well, i guess the cartridges were faster and easier |
| 17:40.51 | *** join/#utah TimRiker (n=timr@70-7-211-238.area7.spcsdns.net) |
| 17:40.51 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 18:00.01 | findlay | ~steal jsmith's -lunch |
| 18:00.02 | ibot | ACTION grabs jsmith's -lunch and gives it to findlay |
| 18:03.52 | Jayce^ | levi, stop making sense, the zealots don't get it.. |
| 18:04.19 | RyanE | yeah, I don't get their argument, so I must be naturally selfish. |
| 18:04.36 | findlay | me too |
| 18:04.54 | RyanE | since I don't think I should be forced to share my product. (or produce, for that matter) |
| 18:06.30 | findlay | that is a pretty authoritarian socialist argument |
| 18:09.05 | RyanE | eww. I read that as 'stomach acne'... dang small fonts. |
| 18:10.39 | *** join/#utah beandog (n=steve@gentoo/developer/beandog) |
| 18:10.40 | tensai | RyanE: assume that you believe that knowledge can't be owned and that trying to hold back the source code to a piece of software is thus essentiall locking away something which isn't yours |
| 18:11.14 | beandog | sweet, Ive got an onjoin |
| 18:11.21 | *** join/#utah bonez39 (n=scott@75.144.9.237) |
| 18:11.23 | tensai | ~onjoin beandog |
| 18:11.23 | ibot | onjoin for beandog set by elg on Fri Jan 18 17:31:19 2008: mkvmerge --title beandog --chapters chapters.txt -o beandog.mkv -A beandog.x264 beandog.ogg |
| 18:11.31 | levi | Source code isn't some 'abstract knowledge', it's a very concrete product. |
| 18:11.33 | bonez39 | help....need help with an email dilemma... |
| 18:11.37 | levi | The 'code as craft' people ought to understand that. |
| 18:11.50 | levi | What a mess of conflicting ideals! |
| 18:12.32 | tensai | levi: but from a different point of view, it isn't a concrete product. it's merely the embodiment of the knowledge of how to solve a particular problem. |
| 18:13.00 | tensai | I'm not arguing for or against either idea. I'm trying to point out a fundamental paradigm difference. |
| 18:13.34 | levi | tensai: That's what we, in the computer science field, call an 'algorithm', which is a fundamentally different thing than source code. |
| 18:13.37 | RyanE | certainly someone can argue that math can't be copyrighted, either, yet algorithms are copyrightable. But I don't think that can of worms should be opened. |
| 18:13.57 | findlay | aww, I like the worms |
| 18:14.00 | findlay | they're fun |
| 18:14.06 | levi | RyanE: algorithms can't be copyrighted, they can be patented. |
| 18:14.22 | RyanE | I think levi nailed it by saying it was a religious argument. Fundamentally, they're two differing views, and won't be resolved on a mailing list. |
| 18:14.27 | levi | And that very fact supports my argument as to the difference between algorithms and source code. |
| 18:14.59 | dmdavis | the differences can only be resolved in a no holds barred cage match |
| 18:15.03 | RyanE | sorry, my 'IP' terms are rusty. yeah, patents. |
| 18:15.15 | *** join/#utah edlin (n=bwhitele@nat/suse/x-98e15e85185410a5) |
| 18:15.16 | dmdavis | two ideas enter, one idea leaves |
| 18:15.19 | levi | One is an abstract process, an embodiment of knowledge. The other is a concrete artifact, and thus is copyrightable. |
| 18:15.33 | findlay | whatever you do, don't go and sully mathematics with patents just to have your worldview consistent with reality :) |
| 18:16.25 | levi | Oh, I'm making no argument for patents here, I'm just pointing out how the current system works. |
| 18:18.20 | RyanE | I would consider source code as more analagous to blueprints than to algorithms. You can reverse-engineer a building and make blueprints. |
| 18:18.22 | tensai | levi: the current system is definitely in agreement with your description |
| 18:18.53 | Supaplex | how long were patents and copyrights good for when they were first introduced? (compare with today) |
| 18:19.22 | tensai | Supaplex: copyright has gone from 17 years to essentially unlimited |
| 18:19.28 | levi | edlin: Why not ban the people who are arguing with me? After all, I'm the one that's correct. :P |
| 18:19.55 | RyanE | levi: at least you're the most reasonable, whether 'right' or 'wrong' figures into it is at the heart of the argument. :) |
| 18:21.17 | findlay | maybe you'd think I was reasonable if you understood what I was actually arguing |
| 18:22.03 | findlay | I'm not advocating forcing anybody else to use/do anything. I have just made a decision about what I do |
| 18:22.08 | edlin | is it acceptable to be a big fan of FOSS, and still think RMS is a fool? |
| 18:22.11 | levi | It boils down to this: Free Software Foundation says that not sharing source is morally wrong. Being morally wrong means there is a universal ethical principle being violated. A universal ethical principle must either follow logically from first principles, or be an edict of authority (i.e., God). I have not seen an argument from first principles, and I do not believe one exists. Therefore, the Free Software Foundation is making a religious argument. |
| 18:22.52 | findlay | levi: and I'm trying to tell you that I don't subscribe to that |
| 18:23.13 | levi | findlay: You don't subscribe to the notion that non-free software is unethical? |
| 18:23.47 | tensai | levi: but that's the point, isn't it? they believe as a principle that knowledge should be shared and not doing so is wrong. |
| 18:24.04 | findlay | levi: it's not as nice much of the time as free SW, but I wouldn't characterize it as harshly as unethical |
| 18:24.08 | tensai | the theory stems from the postulate and different postulates result in different theories |
| 18:25.10 | findlay | levi: you can be morally wrong working either with free or proprietary SW |
| 18:26.10 | findlay | now that's got to be ethical |
| 18:26.33 | levi | tensai: Exactly. And I characterized that as essentially a religious argument, because they provided no ethical reasoning (aside from fuzzy 'nice' and 'not nice' stuff) and yet they still hold that the principle stands. It must be on faith, because there is no reasoning. |
| 18:26.40 | RyanE | sharing is not sharing when it's forced. |
| 18:26.50 | bonez39 | nv.....got it figured out..needed to update my mx records at godaddy |
| 18:26.56 | Supaplex | A personal belief and ethic doesn't neccessarily involve religious ties, although it can have its own religious sort of furvor |
| 18:27.43 | levi | Supaplex: A belief that is not based on reason must be based on some faith that it is true. Unless you've got another source of belief that I've left out. |
| 18:28.51 | findlay | levi: isn't that the point to copyright: to negotiate the benefits of the creator versus the public? |
| 18:29.11 | levi | findlay: Yes, that's the point of copyright. |
| 18:29.19 | RyanE | findlay: not anymore. Now it's about just the benefits of the *owner*, which is typically not the creator or the public. |
| 18:29.25 | findlay | yay, I got one right :) |
| 18:29.41 | findlay | RyanE: it appears to be that way |
| 18:29.52 | RyanE | to our everlasting shame |
| 18:29.55 | tensai | findlay: it was the *original* point of copyright, but as RyanE points out, things have changed |
| 18:30.02 | Kemotaha | fozzmoo: I am glad you don't have 24x7 webcam |
| 18:30.11 | levi | findlay: The point is, these things are negotiable. There's not a universal ethical principle governing it. |
| 18:30.22 | findlay | levi: indeed |
| 18:31.01 | levi | This whole 'rude' thing is a red herring as well. I may think it is rude if you look at me. That doesn't make the act of one person looking at another rude in general. |
| 18:31.49 | RyanE | levi: obviously if you're doing something that is of no benefit to me, that's rude and unsociable. :) |
| 18:32.02 | RyanE | nee, sociopathic! |
| 18:32.08 | levi | Heh. |
| 18:32.27 | RyanE | btw, how's Harmony? |
| 18:32.29 | tensai | levi: it seems to me that you're making the same argument they are. you're assuming as a principle that not sharing is ethically OK. how is your axiom different from theirs? |
| 18:32.39 | findlay | levi: well if you look at the FLOSS/open culture movement as a reaction, then it's easy to see how it tends to be reactionary in rhetoric |
| 18:32.59 | levi | tensai: Because the right to own property is a fundamental one. |
| 18:33.22 | RyanE | crap, now we're going to have to argue whether or not X and Y are 'property'... |
| 18:33.29 | findlay | yay |
| 18:33.36 | findlay | :( |
| 18:33.37 | levi | tensai: Because source code is an artifact of creation, if I create source code, it is my property. |
| 18:34.15 | tensai | levi: you don't see that you're assuming something for fact which others do not? |
| 18:35.05 | levi | tensai: No, there are some pretty solid arguments for the right to property, and they're very familiar (or should be, at least) to everyone on the list. |
| 18:35.18 | levi | "We hold these truths to be self-evident..." |
| 18:35.26 | RyanE | I think you have to have a default, and that default is 'what is mine, is mine'. That's what property rights are. If I create something, it's mine to do with whatever I wish. If I create 5 lines of source code, I can select them and delete them at will. Have I committed an atrocity, killed them before their prime? |
| 18:35.59 | RyanE | Are they not my property if I compile them and let you run them on your processor? When did they become 'not mine'? |
| 18:36.01 | findlay | obviously |
| 18:36.21 | levi | RyanE: I'm not sure where you're going with this. |
| 18:36.21 | RyanE | and what principle makes it unethical for me to not share them? |
| 18:36.37 | RyanE | I'm trying to break down when it becomes unethical for me to not share my source. |
| 18:36.55 | levi | Well, if you find a well-reasoned argument that there is one, please share it with me. |
| 18:37.07 | RyanE | yeah, obviously I don't think there is one. |
| 18:37.08 | rsimpkins | What? Why would it be unethical to share source code you created? |
| 18:37.09 | levi | I don't think that one exists, which has been the crux of my argument. |
| 18:37.18 | RyanE | unethical to NOT share it... |
| 18:37.19 | levi | rsimpkins: To *not* share. |
| 18:37.30 | rsimpkins | levi: Oh, why would it be unethical to not share? |
| 18:37.35 | findlay | levi: so you're saying that anything that is copyrightable counts under the self-evident right of property? |
| 18:37.36 | rsimpkins | Who made that argument? |
| 18:38.08 | RyanE | right, my argument is that if it's unethical to not share source, am I being unethical deleting lines of source in vi before sharing them? Seems a bit ridiculous to me. |
| 18:38.33 | rsimpkins | I think if you use the right analogy it becomes pretty obvious. |
| 18:38.43 | rsimpkins | My favorite analogy is photography. |
| 18:39.09 | tensai | and I'm not arguing either one. I'm saying that the FSF holds a different fundamental view of property when it comes to source code, one which radically changes the view of what is ethical. holding that view is thus not right or wrong, it is different. |
| 18:39.49 | rsimpkins | I'm not familiar with the FSF's position that all software no matter who creates it should be free, even if the creator doesn't want it to be free. |
| 18:39.57 | levi | RyanE: According to the FSF, it is only unethical to not share source code when binary code is distributed. |
| 18:40.15 | RyanE | so I'd better not share *anything*... :) |
| 18:40.29 | RyanE | yeah, I can't make that leap. |
| 18:40.48 | findlay | RyanE: remember that code you pasted? Yeah, I've got it and you can't take it back :) |
| 18:40.52 | levi | rsimpkins: It is their position that there is a right to not distribute source code, but that to distribute a binary without source code is unethical. |
| 18:41.27 | levi | rsimpkins: Similar to the fact that you have a right to say whatever you wish, but it is unethical to speak a lie. |
| 18:41.56 | rsimpkins | levi: So if I take a picture and share the picture, I'm also supposed to give you the negative? |
| 18:42.12 | RyanE | so going back to the architect analogy, is it unethical for an architect to not offer (for sale or free) blueprints to a building? |
| 18:42.29 | levi | rsimpkins: Well, the FSF seems to be uninterested in how their philosphy would apply in other areas, but that seems analogous to me. |
| 18:42.34 | RyanE | and if it is unethical, what if he offers it, at what price is it unethical? |
| 18:42.43 | rsimpkins | levi: It is exactly analogous. :) |
| 18:43.05 | levi | rsimpkins: Right. |
| 18:43.28 | RyanE | rsimpkins: yeah, and with a digital photo, you'd better give me *all* the bits, none of this JPEG crap. That's unethical. |
| 18:43.44 | rsimpkins | Well, I guess the FSF can think whatever it wants to think - I'm not giving them the negatives to my pictures. :) |
| 18:43.58 | levi | rsimpkins: How rude! ;) |
| 18:43.59 | rsimpkins | Unless I want or choose to. |
| 18:44.12 | rsimpkins | Yeah, I am one rude son-of-a-gun. |
| 18:44.38 | rsimpkins | I love stallman - what a whacko. :) |
| 18:44.40 | tensai | I would be interested to know RMS's response to rsimpkins' question. I don't see them as exactly the same. |
| 18:44.45 | RyanE | I could reverse-engineer your negative, but it wouldn't be quite as perfect. |
| 18:44.58 | rsimpkins | RyanE: You could take a picutre of my picutre, yes. |
| 18:44.59 | tensai | but I wouldn't care to actually pose the question to rms. he doesn't tend to be polite or smell good. |
| 18:45.06 | rsimpkins | RyanE: But you might violate a law in doing so. |
| 18:45.11 | rsimpkins | RyanE: And that would make you unethical. |
| 18:45.16 | findlay | I think much of the conflict arises from that we're arguing over an edge case |
| 18:45.21 | RyanE | dang it, I'm coming up very unethical these days. |
| 18:45.30 | elg | beandog: i made me a matroska file from dvd the other day |
| 18:45.36 | beandog | \o/ |
| 18:45.37 | sjansen | We require architects to register building plans with local government for the greater good. Why not require software developers to put their code in escrow for the greater good? |
| 18:45.37 | elg | with chapters and everything |
| 18:45.39 | beandog | rawk |
| 18:45.46 | beandog | elg, is it everything you hoped for and more? |
| 18:46.02 | elg | mostly. some oddness about chapters though |
| 18:46.03 | beandog | did you put mroe than one audio track in there? |
| 18:46.07 | beandog | oh? what happened |
| 18:46.09 | RyanE | sjansen: in this case, the 'greater good' is likely health and safety. |
| 18:46.15 | elg | it starts slightly after where it should, at least for one chapter |
| 18:46.24 | elg | no, this dvd has only one track |
| 18:46.40 | tensai | sjansen: I've thought of that before. it has merit. |
| 18:46.45 | elg | it's a swimming instructional dvd, which is why I needed the chapters, and why I needed to rip it (don't want to cart the dvd around and ruin it) |
| 18:46.55 | sjansen | RyanE: Correct. But the limited term of copyright isn't for health or safety. It's for cultural advancement. |
| 18:46.56 | levi | sjansen: That's an interesting idea, but it does fall under the category of a negotiable right that's taken over by the government. |
| 18:47.16 | *** join/#utah linuxalien (n=zordos@oalug/member/linuxalien) |
| 18:47.22 | RyanE | sjansen: *what* limited term of copyright? I think they've done away with that... :) |
| 18:47.31 | elg | ~lart emcnabb |
| 18:47.31 | ibot | steals emcnabb's mojo |
| 18:47.41 | elg | star trek xi teaser online |
| 18:48.18 | levi | sjansen: It would be professionally unethical to dodge government requirements, but in the absence of those requirements, there would be no ethical reason to share them. |
| 18:48.18 | rsimpkins | elg: I saw it, and I thought it was cool for about .5 seconds. |
| 18:48.39 | elg | rsimpkins: isn't that about as long as it lasted? when you compress it down to actual content |
| 18:48.52 | rsimpkins | elg: Exactly. |
| 18:49.07 | elg | "teaser" |
| 18:49.19 | rsimpkins | .5 seconds of an enterprise model. |
| 18:49.25 | elg | yup |
| 18:49.35 | rsimpkins | Most of the time I was totally confused, cause it looked like they were building a submarine or something. |
| 18:49.46 | rsimpkins | They weren't building it in space - and that just sorta messed with my mind. |
| 18:49.59 | rsimpkins | And they had old-school welding gear. |
| 18:50.08 | findlay | -movietitle |
| 18:50.10 | rsimpkins | Where was the phaser auto-robot welder? |
| 18:50.46 | rsimpkins | I guess the Enterprise was built by hand using a blowtorch and some spare bailing wire. |
| 18:51.52 | rsimpkins | starship construction in the star trek universe has always been a bit convoluted to me. |
| 18:53.43 | levi | But the important issue is--was the source code to the computer Free? |
| 18:54.03 | rsimpkins | levi: Yes. |
| 18:54.31 | rsimpkins | levi: How do you think the klingons were able to come up to speed so quickly? :) |
| 18:54.54 | rsimpkins | levi: Of course, if they would open source their designs we could've had cloaked ships early. |
| 18:55.09 | RyanE | I loved the fact that the source code for the Apple II 'OS' was in the manual. |
| 18:55.23 | RyanE | showed how clever Woz was. |
| 18:57.14 | xbmodder_ | heh |
| 18:57.42 | levi | My apple clone computer had full schematics in the manual. |
| 18:58.00 | RyanE | Apple put schematics in their manual as well. |
| 18:58.08 | rsimpkins | Direct result from being born out of a hobby. |
| 18:58.31 | rsimpkins | Same with Linux really, born out of a hobby - still is for most people. |
| 18:58.35 | RyanE | They really jump-started that '3rd-party peripherals' thing with all those open slots and schematics. |
| 18:58.37 | levi | Yup. |
| 18:59.18 | findlay | and it'll only amount to a unix-clone? |
| 19:00.34 | levi | In what respect does Linux amount to more than a unix-clone? |
| 19:00.58 | RyanE | well, if that's it's *goal*, it's succeeded, no? |
| 19:01.05 | findlay | well it's probably a better unix, but still just unix |
| 19:01.43 | Supaplex | but why isn't it unix? |
| 19:01.53 | levi | Because 'unix' is a trademark. |
| 19:01.55 | Supaplex | features? the fancy logo? |
| 19:02.04 | Supaplex | okay, annndddd... |
| 19:02.09 | findlay | it's got to be Tux |
| 19:02.20 | levi | Well, for all practical purposes, Linux is unix. |
| 19:02.30 | findlay | that's why UNix failed. It didn't have Tux |
| 19:02.54 | findlay | it's all making sense now |
| 19:03.23 | Supaplex | I use Linux all the time. I'm happy with it :) |
| 19:03.31 | levi | It failed because it was assaulted from one side by the Sales and Marketing departments of Microsoft, and from the other by a free clone. Both options were far less expensive to customers. |
| 19:04.10 | findlay | so, Tux and the Window |
| 19:04.28 | RyanE | It also failed because it fractured to 100 different and only-mostly-compatible versions. |
| 19:04.29 | findlay | Unix needed a mascot to fight them off with |
| 19:04.55 | sjansen | levi: See my reply on PLUG. |
| 19:05.04 | findlay | a fractured something. Something inspiring like a power rangers robot |
| 19:05.42 | RyanE | well, if you want fractured, you need the Tux Transformer, that turns into a F-22 Raptor. |
| 19:05.45 | rsimpkins | Lunch. |
| 19:07.10 | levi | RyanE: That too. |
| 19:07.28 | levi | sjansen: Yup. No argument there. |
| 19:09.03 | *** join/#utah linuxalien (n=zordos@oalug/member/linuxalien) |
| 19:12.12 | levi | This discussion about ethics and Free Software reminds me of a brief discussion I had with a classmate about copyright. |
| 19:12.49 | *** part/#utah redbeard2 (n=redbeard@c-76-27-48-109.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 19:15.07 | levi | He was attempting an argument of reductio ad absurdum, saying that copyrighting digital works was absurd because if subsections of the digital data are also protected, then a single bit is copyrighted! |
| 19:15.35 | Supaplex | uhhh riiighttt. |
| 19:15.42 | Supaplex | like single words of a book. |
| 19:15.44 | Supaplex | *yawn* |
| 19:15.59 | findlay | haha |
| 19:16.01 | levi | Unfortunately, I didn't have the time to point out *why* he was being incredibly stupid, since class was about to start. |
| 19:16.23 | levi | I had to suffice with, "That argument is really stupid," But I don't think he believed me. |
| 19:16.42 | elg | esp. light waves of different frequencies |
| 19:16.44 | findlay | well, I copyright my irc logs |
| 19:17.06 | findlay | and everything you say becomes my property :) |
| 19:17.22 | elg | no no, you have to patent that |
| 19:17.28 | sjansen | pssssssssh, patent you fool |
| 19:17.50 | sjansen | And I like _so_ patented that last week. |
| 19:18.06 | dmdavis | crap |
| 19:18.21 | Supaplex | that's ok. I own the patent on 'patent pending'. so you'll have to wait before I decide if your patent is mine or not. ;) |
| 19:19.43 | findlay | hehe, that shoud do it |
| 19:19.49 | levi | Supaplex: Would those groupings of quarks happen to constitute poo? |
| 19:19.54 | elg | you can't patent a constant |
| 19:19.59 | elg | you can patent calculations using it perhaps |
| 19:20.04 | findlay | fine copyright it then |
| 19:20.15 | findlay | whatever it is I now own it! |
| 19:20.30 | Supaplex | levi: quite possibly! |
| 19:21.17 | Supaplex | hummm someone's suddenly missing. |
| 19:21.18 | Supaplex | ~seen sjansen |
| 19:21.20 | ibot | sjansen is currently on #utah (1h 48m 44s). Has said a total of 5 messages. Is idling for 3m 30s, last said: 'And I like _so_ patented that last week.'. |
| 19:21.52 | Supaplex | oh, he's almost missing. we need more tyranny! |
| 19:22.08 | goozbach | more you say? |
| 19:22.16 | *** mode/#utah [+o goozbach] by ChanServ |
| 19:22.24 | goozbach | buhahah! |
| 19:22.33 | goozbach | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:22.36 | Supaplex | okay, I've had enough tyrany now. I'm good. |
| 19:22.52 | goozbach | Supaplex: you sure? |
| 19:23.13 | findlay | isn't tyrany a light chicken ravy? |
| 19:23.18 | findlay | gravy? |
| 19:23.52 | Supaplex | because you resist uh tyranny? |
| 19:25.44 | goozbach | fruit by the foot++ |
| 19:32.47 | mrpull- | why do we let companies get away with saying they'll deliver/install something between 8AM and 12PM? |
| 19:33.09 | *** join/#utah knine (n=knine@128.187.198.111) |
| 19:33.18 | mrpull- | and why if we make arrangements to accommodate that lousy request do they STILL miss their appointments |
| 19:34.40 | goozbach | mrpull-: because comcast hates it's customers |
| 19:34.44 | goozbach | :) |
| 19:34.56 | mrpull- | i think many big businesses hate their customers |
| 19:35.13 | mrpull- | i'm on day two of getting stood up by two different companies :-/ |
| 19:36.03 | rsimpkins | mrpull-: I've often wondered that myself, esspecially when I go to the doctors office right on time, but end up seeing the doctor 1 hour later for 10 minutes. |
| 19:38.47 | mrpull- | i waited five hours yesterday (after them calling to confirm twice last week) for a directv installer to come out and upgrade me |
| 19:39.10 | rsimpkins | mrpull-: Time to cancel the service - before you even make the first payment! :) |
| 19:39.25 | rsimpkins | And let them know you're dissatisfied with their installer being late. |
| 19:39.44 | mrpull- | i called them (twice since the first time their systems were down) to tell me they wouldn't have my equipment till Friday |
| 19:40.32 | rsimpkins | We can only express dissatisfiaction by spending elsewhere really. |
| 19:40.45 | mrpull- | now my amazon delivery is 22 minutes from being a no show too |
| 19:41.17 | rsimpkins | The only services I get that require a window time period are the pest control people, and comcast. |
| 19:41.25 | rsimpkins | The pest guys are always spot on time. |
| 19:41.34 | rsimpkins | Comcast is usually within the window. |
| 19:41.48 | Supaplex | from click 'send order' to signing the cc recepit, took 1h to receive my pizza last night. I was soooooo hungry when I got it. |
| 19:41.58 | *** join/#utah fungus_ (n=fungus@bromine.sosstaffing.com) |
| 19:42.43 | rsimpkins | It's like the wal-mart mentality of thinking regarding service is viral, and every corporation in America is sick. |
| 19:43.30 | mrpull- | i'm letting it spoil my fun |
| 19:45.32 | mrpull- | heh... here comes the truck |
| 19:45.40 | mrpull- | 17 minutes to spare. |
| 19:45.44 | mrpull- | amazon and EGL are off my list |
| 19:47.27 | Supaplex | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:49.49 | *** join/#utah ti`ocpi (n=Chelle@michmax.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 19:51.42 | sjansen | As far as I'm concerned, _Atlast Shrugged_ should be required reading, if only it didn't suffer from a fatal flaw. |
| 19:52.31 | dmdavis | sjansen: that it teaches that infidelity is OK as long as you love the other person more? |
| 19:53.07 | sjansen | Ultimately, it depends on the reader having a strong sense of personal capability but society spends most of it's time teaching people they are weak and helpless. |
| 19:55.27 | *** join/#utah linuxalien (n=zordos@oalug/member/linuxalien) |
| 19:55.50 | *** join/#utah bbeattie (n=media@65.48.77.206) |
| 19:59.30 | findlay | http://york.craigslist.org/sys/546894122.html |
| 20:00.09 | mrpull- | garrrr... now i _really_ wish directv would have come yesterday |
| 20:00.30 | mrpull- | findlay: i've got a ps/2 model m downstairs |
| 20:00.43 | findlay | mrpull-: how much do you want for it? :) |
| 20:01.07 | mrpull- | remind me to throw it in my car next plug meeting |
| 20:01.17 | findlay | sweet :-) |
| 20:01.31 | findlay | I'd tune your piano or something |
| 20:01.40 | findlay | s/I'd/I'd have my dad/ |
| 20:01.40 | mrpull- | would you cry if i told you i cut the cord off a model m to give my 2yro a toy? |
| 20:01.59 | *** join/#utah xbmodder_ (n=Sargun@atarack/staff/sargun) |
| 20:02.01 | mrpull- | kids love that clackity clackaty |
| 20:02.03 | findlay | eh, you could probably repari it |
| 20:02.22 | findlay | well, it should be a toy that lasts |
| 20:02.23 | mrpull- | i like it too... but i traded it for wireless |
| 20:02.34 | mrpull- | i'm fearing the day it is used as a weapon |
| 20:02.34 | findlay | well, in that case ... |
| 20:02.43 | mrpull- | but i do have a working one downstairs too |
| 20:02.49 | mrpull- | you can have it |
| 20:02.51 | findlay | http://www.daskeyboard.com/ |
| 20:03.09 | xbmodder_ | mrpull-, ? |
| 20:03.31 | xbmodder_ | mrpull-, I didn't like CarTalk when I was younger |
| 20:06.22 | Tene | findlay: you like swords? |
| 20:06.39 | findlay | Tene: in the abstract, indeed |
| 20:07.05 | Tene | findlay: but you don't personally have interest in actually using one? |
| 20:07.28 | levi | Man, the wiring to my cube is incredibly shoddy. |
| 20:07.40 | findlay | Tene: not really |
| 20:07.46 | levi | A stray movement of my foot knocked out power to my cube and 3 others. |
| 20:07.55 | findlay | except as maybe dance/art/fun |
| 20:08.05 | xbmodder_ | levi, Nice. |
| 20:08.06 | findlay | haha |
| 20:08.09 | xbmodder_ | I want that. |
| 20:08.52 | fozzmoo | http://engrish.com/ |
| 20:08.57 | Tene | I attended a medieval combat class in SLC for a while. It was a lot of fun. |
| 20:10.08 | fozzmoo | I don't appreciate Iodynamics being referred to as a "medieval combat class." |
| 20:10.26 | xbmodder_ | Hhahaha |
| 20:10.55 | findlay | fozzmoo: was it so much more? |
| 20:11.38 | fozzmoo | Well, you know, we had some black powder weapons and, with enough experience points, you could have some energy weapons too. |
| 20:15.48 | *** join/#utah ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) |
| 20:15.48 | *** topic/#utah is Off Topic and Beyond | http://plug.org/irc | Channel log @ http://ibot.rikers.org/%23utah/ | levi is a freedom flusher |
| 20:15.48 | *** mode/#utah [+o ibot] by ChanServ |
| 20:16.30 | xbmodder_ | neato |
| 20:17.48 | xbmodder_ | findlay, you own iodynamics? |
| 20:18.06 | xbmodder_ | who did the web design for iodynamics? |
| 20:18.44 | fozzmoo | The most recent rendition of the website? Me. |
| 20:18.58 | findlay | xbmodder_: I own more that that ... I own google too |
| 20:19.00 | levi | fozzmoo is the iodynamics MAN. |
| 20:19.22 | fozzmoo | With the chick that looks like she's watching something like The Running Man |
| 20:19.32 | fozzmoo | Like she's cheering as someone gets their legs pulled off. |
| 20:19.33 | xbmodder_ | findlay, .000000000000000000000000000000000000001% of iodynamics? |
| 20:19.39 | xbmodder_ | Heheh |
| 20:19.55 | xbmodder_ | fozzmoo, was that a joke? |
| 20:19.58 | xbmodder_ | (the image) |
| 20:20.08 | fozzmoo | No, but I've had a lot of comments about it. |
| 20:23.55 | *** join/#utah ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) |
| 20:23.55 | *** topic/#utah is Off Topic and Beyond | http://plug.org/irc | Channel log @ http://ibot.rikers.org/%23utah/ | levi is a freedom flusher |
| 20:23.55 | *** mode/#utah [+o ibot] by ChanServ |
| 20:25.41 | findlay | gah! |
| 20:30.14 | findlay | ugh |
| 20:30.21 | findlay | this won't do dirs in place |
| 20:30.27 | findlay | completely useless for me |
| 20:31.10 | Tene | findlay: it can. |
| 20:31.25 | Tene | There's just very little config for it ATM. |
| 20:31.43 | Tene | I *think* there might be that option in the config panel somewhere, though. |
| 20:31.49 | Tene | You running e on eepc? |
| 20:32.36 | Tene | also, you try raster's new theme yet? |
| 20:33.19 | findlay | Tene: said config doesn't work on my box |
| 20:33.35 | Tene | findlay: eh? no config panel, or that option does nothing? |
| 20:33.53 | findlay | Tene: this is on my work box and the option has no effect |
| 20:34.06 | Tene | ahh |
| 20:34.08 | Tene | huh |
| 20:34.28 | Tene | findlay: http://rasterman.com/files/new.edj |
| 20:37.26 | findlay | Tene: doesn't work either |
| 20:37.31 | findlay | just got basic theme |
| 20:37.39 | findlay | and it reset my resolution :) |
| 20:47.15 | Tene | findlay: how old of an e do you have? |
| 20:47.24 | findlay | about 1 month |
| 20:47.48 | Tene | Hmm. |
| 20:49.32 | xbmodder_ | o.O |
| 20:49.34 | xbmodder_ | Weird. |
| 20:49.37 | xbmodder_ | Lungs. |
| 20:49.48 | tensai | Supaplex: toss in a stomach and we've got the fixins for haggis |
| 20:50.40 | Supaplex | naw thanks. :) |
| 20:51.39 | rsimpkins | I've never seen a lung outisde a human before, so I found a picture: http://www.geocities.com/davidlvessell/lung.jpeg |
| 20:52.36 | xbmodder_ | you've opened up a human |
| 20:52.40 | xbmodder_ | and looked inside? |
| 20:53.50 | Lakshmi | ooh nice! |
| 20:53.53 | Lakshmi | i wanna do that too! |
| 21:02.58 | xbmodder_ | ~ping |
| 21:02.58 | ibot | pong |
| 21:03.42 | xbmodder_ | ok. |
| 21:03.44 | xbmodder_ | good bot. |
| 21:04.06 | Lakshmi | xbmodder_ your mean to ibot |
| 21:07.29 | Supaplex | so you admit to your instigation |
| 21:07.41 | *** join/#utah bbeattie (n=media@65.48.77.206) |
| 21:07.44 | Lakshmi | Supaplex i dont want them |
| 21:10.12 | *** join/#utah linuxalien (n=zordos@38.99.101.130) |
| 21:14.48 | *** join/#utah ti`ocpi (n=Chelle@michmax.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 21:25.12 | tensai | anybody used bluetooth in linux to talk to a cell phone? |
| 21:27.06 | jsmith | tensai: Aye! |
| 21:27.37 | tensai | jsmith: how well does it work? what can you actually do with said bluetooth connection? |
| 21:28.01 | jsmith | tensai: Depending on the program doing the talking, all kinds of things |
| 21:28.17 | *** join/#utah xbmodder_ (n=Sargun@atarack/staff/sargun) |
| 21:28.17 | jsmith | tensai: Send text message, transfer files, sync contacts, initiate calls.... |
| 21:28.58 | tensai | ok, that sounds cool enough to be worth trying |
| 21:30.48 | tensai | jsmith: on a scale of 1 to 10, how easy was it to set up? |
| 21:31.05 | jsmith | tensai: three, maybe four? |
| 21:31.43 | nick125 | Once you get your BT hardware working, it should be easy. |
| 21:31.54 | mrpull- | who ordered more snow? |
| 21:32.05 | nick125 | That guy! |
| 21:32.20 | mrpull- | here in lehi it looks to be snowing harder than yesterday morning |
| 21:32.21 | xbmodder_ | haha |
| 21:32.23 | xbmodder_ | nick125, hey |
| 21:32.27 | mrpull- | i wonder how long it will last |
| 21:32.37 | Jayce^ | just started here |
| 21:32.53 | Jayce^ | the forecast had no snow today, or tomorrow, but more this weekend |
| 21:33.33 | *** join/#utah dataw0lf (n=stderr@adsl-75-14-203-206.dsl.renocs.sbcglobal.net) |
| 21:36.09 | *** part/#utah pelaofeliz (n=PelaoFel@67.108.236.230) |
| 21:36.19 | *** join/#utah pelaofeliz (n=PelaoFel@67.108.236.230) |
| 21:38.17 | Supaplex | yay weekend snow |
| 21:49.34 | thaddeusq | anybody know where Evolution stores server information? |
| 21:49.38 | levi | mrpull-: It's snowing right now? Argh. |
| 21:49.47 | mrpull- | it is in NE lehi |
| 21:49.56 | mrpull- | it let up a little, but its still coming |
| 21:50.08 | levi | Yuck. I wonder how traffic is going to be in an hour. |
| 21:50.56 | mrpull- | it was so warm this afternoon... it might not stick on the roads and sidewalks for a while |
| 21:51.01 | tensai | thaddeusq: what kind of server information? |
| 21:51.09 | Heartsbane | thaddeusq: you might want to ask undertakingyou he loves it, and uses it quite frequently |
| 21:52.29 | thaddeusq | tensai: like what servers to contact. I have a server misconfigured that asks for a password and no matter what password I type in it just keeps coming back asking for it. So I can't get in to my mailbox. |
| 21:54.10 | tensai | thaddeusq: everything is under .evolution, but I'm not sure how you'd fix that by editing the files. that's beyond my evolution-fu. |
| 21:54.34 | tensai | thaddeusq: generally if you click cancel, it will give up and you can edit the account like normal |
| 21:54.53 | thaddeusq | tensai: yeah, you'd think, wouldn't ya |
| 21:55.33 | tensai | thaddeusq: try starting it with --offline? |
| 21:56.02 | tensai | perhaps one of the components needs a kick in the pants with --force-shutdown? |
| 21:59.15 | thaddeusq | tensai: --force-shutdown followed by offline mode worked. Thanks. |
| 21:59.40 | tensai | sweet! |
| 22:02.45 | xbmodder_ | heh |
| 22:09.29 | fozzmoo | heh. |
| 22:09.35 | fozzmoo | xbmodder_: You read PLUG too? |
| 22:09.38 | Supaplex | :P |
| 22:09.49 | fozzmoo | Well, I just got back from SLCC |
| 22:09.51 | edlin | didn't we decide that levi should be banned from his kbd? |
| 22:10.32 | xbmodder_ | fozzmoo, No Ma'am. |
| 22:12.50 | Lakshmi | hey fozzmoo |
| 22:12.52 | Lakshmi | sup? |
| 22:13.01 | fozzmoo | Just got back from SLCC! |
| 22:13.08 | fozzmoo | Didn't yyou see that>! |
| 22:13.09 | fozzmoo | ?! |
| 22:15.22 | mrpull- | other than remind me that i don't like that gmail doesn't really thread email as well as clients i've used in the past... not much from the silly plug threads has influenced me |
| 22:17.08 | fozzmoo | heh. |
| 22:18.12 | levi | mrpull-: I'm not sure whether that makes me happy, sad, or indifferent. ;) |
| 22:20.07 | levi | I mean, I'd hope that a majority of the PLUG members would already agree with me and thus have no need to be influenced. On the other hand, if none of the people who disagreed were influenced, it was a colossal waste of time. Oh well. |
| 22:21.06 | *** join/#utah nick125_treo (n=upirc@215.sub-75-211-26.myvzw.com) |
| 22:22.08 | mrpull- | i guess i'm encouraged that the threadjack/toppost/trimming/hitler thing hasn't started yet |
| 22:22.35 | levi | elg: It's an argument about whether there is an ethical imperative to make released software conform to Free Software guidelines. |
| 22:23.08 | elg | i could be enlisted to change the list to not set reply-to ... |
| 22:23.28 | Jayce^ | ~glare at elg |
| 22:23.29 | ibot | ACTION glares at at elg |
| 22:23.30 | elg | and I'm this close to just unsubscribing from plug |
| 22:23.43 | elg | everything I used to get from plug, I get from #utah |
| 22:23.51 | *** join/#utah bbeattie (n=media@65.48.77.206) |
| 22:24.15 | elg | except nobody argues about top-posting IRC pastes |
| 22:24.24 | goozbach | one day I'll learn how to spel |
| 22:24.38 | tensai | elg: top posting rulez! |
| 22:24.38 | tensai | [15:24] <elg> except nobody argues about top-posting IRC pastes |
| 22:24.42 | elg | goozbach: that's speculating |
| 22:24.56 | elg | tensai: see, here we have "real" conversations and don't feel the need to quote every word the other guy said |
| 22:25.11 | goozbach | speculating? |
| 22:25.12 | elg | but if there's confusion, the other guy goes "huh?" and then we paste what he said |
| 22:25.12 | goozbach | ha |
| 22:25.16 | tensai | elg: you're missing out. it's fun. |
| 22:25.18 | tensai | [15:24] <tensai> elg: top posting rulez! |
| 22:25.18 | tensai | [15:24] <tensai> [15:24] <elg> except nobody argues about top-posting IRC pastes |
| 22:25.20 | elg | and that my friend is top-posting |
| 22:25.20 | goozbach | I laugh in th face of your specluations |
| 22:25.47 | elg | we do have botposting here |
| 22:25.52 | levi | Speaking of PLUG discussions... I notice that no one posted the followup article to the one that caused all the 'Java as a first language' controversy, in which the author clarified his views on Java, which turn out to be not quite as negative as the Java-boosters imagined. |
| 22:25.54 | goozbach | mod_rewrite to the rescue |
| 22:25.55 | elg | s/botposting/bot posting/ |
| 22:26.10 | goozbach | spam ham and eggs! |
| 22:26.35 | elg | levi: not sensational enough to get through the various forwards needed to get forwarded to plug |
| 22:26.54 | thaddeusq | goozbach: we're out of ham |
| 22:27.05 | goozbach | damn |
| 22:27.09 | goozbach | spam and eggs then |
| 22:34.06 | tensai | jsmith: bluetooth isn't working. fix it. |
| 22:34.28 | tensai | jsmith: actually I think I turned off bluetooth in the bios. I'll have to reboot and check. |
| 22:34.43 | tensai | OW! |
| 22:40.53 | elg | but I hate mailing lists in gmail |
| 22:41.01 | dmdavis | why? |
| 22:41.04 | elg | but if I don't send any lists to gmail, I may have no motivation to check it |
| 22:41.10 | elg | no threading |
| 22:41.22 | Kemotaha | elg: it threads |
| 22:41.27 | elg | and having a mailbox you don't check is more poisonous than not having it in the first place |
| 22:41.28 | elg | Kemotaha: ha |
| 22:41.38 | elg | for some non-standard and useless definition of thread |
| 22:41.40 | dmdavis | it groups, doesn't really thread |
| 22:41.50 | levi | elg: I send everything to gmail, but then pop everything back out again. |
| 22:59.34 | jsmith | elg: I send everything to gmail, and IMAP it back out ;-) |
| 23:02.25 | Jayce^ | jsmith, agreed |
| 23:03.14 | tensai | ~lart craptiontec |
| 23:03.14 | ibot | overclocks craptiontec until craptiontec burns out |
| 23:04.44 | herlo | tensai: I have to deal with that too for a while until UTOPIA is approved in my HOA |
| 23:05.00 | tensai | herlo: two more weeks and then my wireless is installed |
| 23:05.11 | herlo | ooh nice |
| 23:05.37 | tensai | sometime after that I will hopefully be able to turn off qwest completely |
| 23:06.57 | findlay | we need one of those every month |
| 23:07.00 | *** join/#utah harleypig (n=harleypi@32.237.sfcn.org) |
| 23:07.05 | harleypig | Tadahh! |
| 23:07.16 | Kemotaha | ~lart findlay |
| 23:07.16 | ibot | blames findlay for all the evil in the world |
| 23:07.22 | findlay | I nominate myself as the flamebait fuse |
| 23:07.26 | findlay | for plug |
| 23:07.30 | harleypig | I see things haven't changed much. |
| 23:07.38 | findlay | yay |
| 23:09.20 | goozbach | hp: how are you man |
| 23:09.21 | goozbach | ? |
| 23:09.26 | goozbach | it's been a lONG time |
| 23:09.29 | harleypig | I'm still vertical. |
| 23:09.30 | harleypig | Sort of. |
| 23:09.50 | harleypig | Got temporary custody ofmy kids and working on making it permanent. |
| 23:10.06 | harleypig | I really hate the paperwork involved. |
| 23:11.01 | xbmodder_ | oh |
| 23:11.03 | goozbach | is that all it takes to get you back into #utah? reply to your post on plug |
| 23:11.04 | xbmodder_ | I'm sorry. |
| 23:11.22 | xbmodder_ | Women are mostly evil. |
| 23:11.26 | harleypig | :D Naw ... Jayce called me names. |
| 23:11.34 | goozbach | ahh |
| 23:11.38 | goozbach | good job jayce |
| 23:11.38 | harleypig | xbmodder_: Don't get me started. |
| 23:11.54 | findlay | xbmodder_: don't apologize. You need the angst to help you become more bitter |
| 23:12.16 | xbmodder_ | Hm. |
| 23:12.28 | harleypig | Like dark chocolate? |
| 23:12.40 | findlay | silly xbmodder_ flirting with every girl on the public transit :) |
| 23:12.42 | Jayce^ | ~fart harleypig |
| 23:12.42 | ibot | ACTION farts in harleypig's general direction |
| 23:12.50 | goozbach | well, I'm glad you're mostly vertical |
| 23:12.57 | goozbach | we thought you'd dissapeared |
| 23:13.03 | xbmodder_ | findlay, oh, I wasn't flirting with her, I mean considering her uh, status. |
| 23:13.04 | findlay | xbmodder_: I used to talk to girls all the time on the train in SLC |
| 23:13.07 | findlay | it was fun |
| 23:13.14 | harleypig | I did ... I was filling out the same damn information over and over again. |
| 23:13.18 | xbmodder_ | yeah, but I bet your train had many chicks under 25 |
| 23:13.19 | Jayce^ | goozbach, you can't make that much matter dissapear |
| 23:13.20 | xbmodder_ | mine doesn't |
| 23:13.22 | findlay | helps get you girl skillz |
| 23:13.25 | harleypig | Now I'm doing it for different agencies. |
| 23:13.34 | xbmodder_ | findlay, but if multiple girls do the same train |
| 23:13.39 | xbmodder_ | and see me cross-flirting |
| 23:13.41 | xbmodder_ | that can be bad |
| 23:13.50 | findlay | xbmodder_: sure did. Most of them were UU students |
| 23:14.10 | findlay | xbmodder_: well you don't talk to them all at once unless you're physically in a position to |
| 23:14.35 | findlay | besides, talking to strangers is easier if it doesn't move beyond the polite conversation realm |
| 23:14.36 | goozbach | ~lastseen harleypig |
| 23:16.56 | tensai | goozbach: it's ~seen, but it'll just show that he's currently online |
| 23:17.12 | xbmodder_ | ~seen teabeer |
| 23:17.14 | ibot | teabeer is currently on #utah, last said: 'what?'. |
| 23:17.14 | xbmodder_ | ~seen Tene |
| 23:17.15 | ibot | tene is currently on #utah. Has said a total of 11 messages. Is idling for 2h 29m 27s, last said: 'Hmm.'. |
| 23:17.15 | xbmodder_ | ~seen tensai |
| 23:17.16 | ibot | tensai is currently on #utah. Has said a total of 23 messages. Is idling for 20s, last said: 'goozbach: it's ~seen, but it'll just show that he's currently online'. |
| 23:17.33 | xbmodder_ | ~seen ibot |
| 23:17.34 | ibot | ibot is currently on #bzflag (2h 53m 29s) #kierra (2h 53m 29s) #brlcad (2h 53m 29s) #handhelds (2h 53m 29s) #utah (2h 53m 29s) #oe (2h 53m 29s) #zaurus (2h 53m 29s) #gllug (2h 53m 29s) #pillbox (2h 53m 29s) #handhelds-gpe (2h 53m 29s) #openzaurus (2h 53m 29s) #silvercat (2h 53m 29s) #opie ... |
| 23:17.47 | xbmodder_ | ~seen ibot |
| 23:17.48 | ibot | ibot is currently on #bzflag (2h 53m 43s) #kierra (2h 53m 43s) #brlcad (2h 53m 43s) #handhelds (2h 53m 43s) #utah (2h 53m 43s) #oe (2h 53m 43s) #zaurus (2h 53m 43s) #gllug (2h 53m 43s) #pillbox (2h 53m 43s) #handhelds-gpe (2h 53m 43s) #openzaurus (2h 53m 43s) #silvercat (2h 53m 43s) #opie ... |
| 23:18.20 | goozbach | tensai: I know that |
| 23:18.35 | goozbach | I was being funny |
| 23:18.44 | goozbach | ~ignore xbmodder_ |
| 23:18.45 | ibot | ACTION sticks her fingers in her ears. "La, la, la! I can't hear you, xbmodder_!" |
| 23:18.51 | tensai | goozbach: ah |
| 23:19.26 | findlay | ~eeepc Tene |
| 23:19.27 | ibot | ACTION swaps Tene's brick with a refreshingly light, diminutive, and happy cute-looking computer with super extra battery lives |
| 23:21.44 | harleypig | anyone familiar with blender and secondlife and willing to give me some basic tutorials? |
| 23:21.58 | findlay | oooh, blender |
| 23:22.16 | findlay | I rendered a cube in blender once. It was fun. Does that count? |
| 23:22.24 | harleypig | :D |
| 23:22.44 | tensai | I saw willitblend.com. does that help? |
| 23:22.45 | herlo | harleypig: hi |
| 23:22.58 | harleypig | Since I'm homebound for the forseeable future I was thinking I'd try to make some money in SL. |
| 23:23.02 | harleypig | Hey, herlo |
| 23:23.14 | xbmodder_ | SLC? |
| 23:23.15 | harleypig | tensai: dunno ... looking at i tnow. |
| 23:23.18 | harleypig | Second Life |
| 23:23.19 | xbmodder_ | or Second Life? |
| 23:23.23 | herlo | harleypig: how's things? |
| 23:23.28 | xbmodder_ | what happened? |
| 23:23.29 | herlo | Second LIfe seems dumb |
| 23:23.40 | findlay | dude |
| 23:23.41 | levi | harleypig: Good luck. :) |
| 23:23.45 | harleypig | I thought so too, until I started to play around with stuff. |
| 23:23.48 | findlay | 2nd life is sooo web2.0 |
| 23:23.55 | levi | findlay: Huh? |
| 23:24.05 | tensai | science friday++ |
| 23:24.05 | findlay | everybody's third life now |
| 23:24.14 | harleypig | I actually made this really simple twisted cube and put a funky texture on it and somene bought it from me for L$500 |
| 23:24.29 | herlo | right, play money |
| 23:24.29 | harleypig | Idiots with money ... I don't have a problem fleecing them. |
| 23:24.36 | levi | I'm interested to see where Croquet is going to go, and when it's going to clash with Second Life. |
| 23:24.37 | findlay | haha |
| 23:24.46 | harleypig | err ... no ... ratio is L$265/US$1 |
| 23:25.11 | herlo | harleypig: would it be a good idea to have UTOSC in Second Life as well in August. |
| 23:25.12 | harleypig | woman in germany cleared US$3.5M last year selling virtual real estate. |
| 23:25.44 | harleypig | I made US$2 just for dinkin around. |
| 23:25.54 | harleypig | herlo: I think so ... |
| 23:26.10 | harleypig | it's become popular enough ... companies have virtual presences in world. |
| 23:26.28 | herlo | In truth, I'm a bit surprised by your excitement and since I respect your opinion (most of the time), I thought I'd ask the value... |
| 23:26.34 | harleypig | the problem is procuring the land ... though ideally, buying an island would be the best way to go. |
| 23:26.35 | findlay | only if SL has 25 h days |
| 23:27.05 | harleypig | I think it will (and in some respect has become) an everyday occurrence. |
| 23:27.17 | harleypig | But it's not for the geek ... |
| 23:27.18 | harleypig | umm |
| 23:27.22 | harleypig | not the right way to put that. |
| 23:27.59 | harleypig | It's weird ... they had a Ms SL Universe pageant. I did some digging around and the winner was this 45 yr old man in Australia. |
| 23:28.08 | harleypig | But his avie was incredible. |
| 23:28.17 | herlo | that is odd |
| 23:28.37 | herlo | I'm not sure its right for us then. I still buy into the idea that IRC is where its at |
| 23:28.47 | harleypig | If you're willing to learn the physics and the script of the world you can make lots of money fleecing people who think that computers are magical. |
| 23:29.12 | herlo | but it continues to come up as an interesting and cool idea so I thought I'd see from your POV |
| 23:29.12 | harleypig | fleecing is the wrong way to put it. .. but people are willing to pay *lots* of money for virtual bling |
| 23:29.23 | herlo | its the *right* word IMO |
| 23:29.30 | rsimpkins | harleypig: Does it cost real $$$ to make the virtual stuff? |
| 23:29.35 | harleypig | OTOH, Cisco has an in world campus where they have actual classes. |
| 23:29.52 | herlo | harleypig: that's why I ask |
| 23:29.54 | levi | harleypig: Have you looked at Croquet at all? |
| 23:29.57 | herlo | I've heard things like that |
| 23:30.01 | harleypig | rsimpkins: only when uploading textures and other things like that. |
| 23:30.12 | rsimpkins | harleypig: Sounds like a huge scam to me. |
| 23:30.37 | harleypig | But if you're willing to search all the free textures available you can do it for free. |
| 23:30.40 | harleypig | 100% profit |
| 23:30.47 | harleypig | it is a scam ... |
| 23:31.21 | harleypig | but people are willing to buy it |
| 23:31.37 | harleypig | I'm willing to try and make some money off it and have a good time whilst doing it. |
| 23:31.50 | harleypig | levi: I haven't ... croquet.com? |
| 23:31.54 | xbmodder_ | pretend to be female? |
| 23:31.58 | tensai | seems fine to me. if somebody doesn't have the knowledge or time to make a twisty cube, but they really want it then why wouldn't they pay for it? |
| 23:32.19 | harleypig | xbmodder_: There are all kinds of avies ... male/female/beast/fantasy/whatever |
| 23:32.32 | levi | harleypig: opencroquet.org |
| 23:32.34 | xbmodder_ | Beast? |
| 23:33.00 | harleypig | tensai: True ... to a point ... but I was just playing around with the interface everyone has available to them. |
| 23:33.09 | harleypig | levi: looking |
| 23:33.16 | levi | harleypig: It's currently an SDK for developing virtual worlds rather than a virtual world, and it's not finished, but it's getting increasing support and has a much more open and decentralized architecture than Second Life. |
| 23:33.28 | harleypig | xbmodder_: Yeah, I have a rabbit (with a bloody mouth :>) and a fox and a cople of others. |
| 23:33.35 | tensai | harleypig: html can be written with any text editor which everybody has access to, but people still pay for web design |
| 23:33.50 | tensai | nobody would call that a scam |
| 23:33.54 | herlo | levi: you know, if you added http:// to the front of that, most IRC clients can then let you click on the link, which is just easier |
| 23:34.08 | levi | OK, http://www.opencroquet.org/ |
| 23:34.13 | herlo | not that copy and paste is all that hard, but hey |
| 23:34.19 | herlo | :) |
| 23:35.18 | harleypig | tensai: true, which is why I don't feel guilty about fleecing them |
| 23:35.39 | harleypig | herlo: irssi doesn't convert the link :P |
| 23:36.19 | harleypig | levi: Oh ... while I'm interested in the idea of creating virtual worlds ... SL is established and used by more than 80M people atm. |
| 23:36.43 | tensai | harleypig: I think you discredit yourself by calling it fleecing. it seems perfectly on the level to me. |
| 23:37.03 | harleypig | On average they have almost 100K logged in at any given moment ... I'm looking for enough idiots willing to pay L$500 for a learning mistake to make it profitable. |
| 23:37.04 | herlo | harleypig: nope, not unless its got an http:// in front |
| 23:37.06 | harleypig | :D |
| 23:37.27 | harleypig | :] it didn't even with levi's correction |
| 23:37.50 | tensai | herlo: is it irssi or is it your terminal? |
| 23:38.18 | levi | harleypig: I think the 80m number might be a little inflated as a real userbase. |
| 23:38.35 | harleypig | tensai: true ... and that attitude probably comes through and hurts my chances as well, but I view it the same as changing oil in a car ... anyone can do it and save themselves $50 ... |
| 23:38.36 | herlo | tensai: terminal, but I didn't think it mattered to get into specifics |
| 23:38.42 | harleypig | levi: possibly |
| 23:39.32 | tensai | herlo: harleypig is using a vt100 on a pdp-11, so that's probably the issue |
| 23:39.36 | harleypig | herlo: if you've got konsole setup to do that I'd appreciate some info on that ... it's ever so much nicer to just click ... :> |
| 23:39.41 | harleypig | :D |
| 23:40.40 | harleypig | tensai: however, they claim that more than 2M have logged in over the last 30 days ... btw, I was wrong ... it's 8M, not 80M |
| 23:40.45 | tensai | harleypig: I pay jiffy lube $30 to do mine. between buying the filter, the oil, and all the other fluids, plus the time to change it, wash up and properly dispose of the waste it's so worth $30 |
| 23:41.04 | *** join/#utah tiwula (n=lane@195.sub-166-161-154.myvzw.com) |
| 23:41.41 | harleypig | tensai: Is it? But they only do a $30 job ... they don't run the oil through twice do they, replacing the filter between each run? |
| 23:42.07 | harleypig | But I see your point. |
| 23:42.20 | *** join/#utah nick125_treo (n=upirc@215.sub-75-211-26.myvzw.com) |
| 23:42.56 | harleypig | I guess the difference is that you know how to do it ... but your willing to pay to have someone do it. |
| 23:43.06 | herlo | harleypig: that comment made me throw up a little in my mouth |
| 23:43.13 | herlo | about konsole |
| 23:43.21 | harleypig | konsole |
| 23:43.24 | harleypig | konsole |
| 23:43.25 | harleypig | konsole |
| 23:43.32 | herlo | ~puke harleypig |
| 23:43.33 | harleypig | sorry, my keyboard musta got stuck |
| 23:43.42 | harleypig | Don't like konsole or kde? |
| 23:43.44 | nick125_treo | konsole is the suck. |
| 23:44.05 | harleypig | isn't that supposed to be konsole si the sux0r ? |
| 23:44.16 | harleypig | or konsole sux0rs |
| 23:44.20 | mrpull- | harleypig: is it standard to run oil thru it twice replacing the filter three times? |
| 23:44.21 | nick125_treo | then again, I think KDE is a piece of junk, especially 4.0 |
| 23:44.34 | harleypig | mrpull-: not standard ... but better for the car. |
| 23:44.37 | herlo | ibot: puke $harley is <action> , while sick, attempts to make it to the bathroom and pukes all over harleypig |
| 23:44.38 | ibot | herlo: okay |
| 23:44.44 | herlo | ~puke harly |
| 23:44.44 | ibot | ACTION , while sick, attempts to make it to the bathroom and pukes all over harleypig |
| 23:44.50 | harleypig | :D |
| 23:45.00 | harleypig | s/bathroom/porcelain throne/ |
| 23:45.10 | harleypig | s/throne/god/ |
| 23:45.30 | herlo | ibot: no, puke $harley is <action> , while sick, attempts to make it to the porcelain god and pukes all over harleypig |
| 23:45.31 | ibot | herlo: okay |
| 23:45.44 | herlo | ~puke harleypig |
| 23:45.45 | ibot | ACTION , while sick, attempts to make it to the porcelain god and pukes all over harleypig |
| 23:45.48 | harleypig | :D |
| 23:50.07 | sontek | goozbach: why no likey? |
| 23:51.34 | harleypig | herlo: doesn't that instruction mean just ~puke will work? |
| 23:51.36 | harleypig | ~puke |
| 23:51.37 | ibot | HOOF BLEEEECH! *flush* |
| 23:51.41 | harleypig | gues snot |
| 23:51.45 | harleypig | err ... yeah |
| 23:51.48 | harleypig | ~puke herlo |
| 23:51.49 | ibot | ACTION , while sick, attempts to make it to the porcelain god and pukes all over harleypig |
| 23:52.45 | harleypig | levi: doing some quick searching seems to indicate that croquet isn't quite ready for primetime |
| 23:57.38 | mrpull- | ahhh geeze... the famn damily just showed up. |
| 23:59.38 | rsimpkins | ❂ I want an irssi script that puts a random funky char at the beginning of every line. |
| 23:59.57 | rsimpkins | ⇒ Maybe it'd be annoying. |
