| 00:07.14 | *** join/#utah eco (n=eco@gnuk.net) |
| 00:08.46 | findlay | jsmith: well, it would be much nicer (cleaner) if distros automatically packaged config revisions for you |
| 00:09.43 | jsmith | If we lived in a perfect world, I'd be out of a job ;-) |
| 00:11.51 | herlo | jsmith: you would? You are a smart guy... |
| 00:11.56 | findlay | isn't the idea to eliminate your job with a shell script? |
| 00:12.06 | herlo | you'd break something just so its not a perfect world |
| 00:12.21 | findlay | so you can do fun things all day, like read Voltaire? |
| 00:13.24 | levi | findlay: Pangloss didn't say the world was perfect, just that it was the best of all possible worlds! |
| 00:16.35 | jsmith | herlo: Not smart enough, apparently |
| 00:16.44 | herlo | hehe |
| 00:18.38 | findlay | no fair |
| 00:18.52 | findlay | Mr Two Time Zones Ahead of Utah |
| 00:23.39 | redbeard2 | herlo: where are you this week? |
| 00:24.17 | *** join/#utah sjansen (n=sjansen@class1-nat.gurulabs.com) |
| 00:24.22 | sjansen | http://valleywag.com/tech/facebook/facebook-in-30-years-334419.php |
| 00:24.48 | herlo | redbeard2: Utah |
| 00:25.02 | findlay | sjansen: why do you keep making me open these URL's and then scramming? |
| 00:27.20 | findlay | IRC in 30 years? |
| 00:27.27 | findlay | no change |
| 00:30.21 | herlo | findlay: there will be change, we'll all hook it up to our neural links... |
| 00:30.24 | herlo | and think IRC |
| 00:33.38 | findlay | ~think herlo |
| 00:33.48 | findlay | ~think different |
| 00:34.29 | herlo | findlay: for sure... |
| 00:35.04 | findlay | ~think outside the tesseract |
| 00:54.41 | Supaplex | does anyone know of an scp that'll queue and wait to copy files to a remote system? I'd like to hijack the epson r260 ppd cups driver off my ibook, install it on linux, and use a shell script to grab the print job and relay it to the ibook when it's online. epson once had this printer driver native in linux, and gpl, but I was unable to find working sources etc. |
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| 01:15.51 | nick125 | Supaplex: Are you sure it isn't in a standard distribution like foomatic? |
| 01:19.21 | Supaplex | http://tinyurl.com/28jy78 This printer entry is not yet included in the Foomatic packages |
| 01:19.50 | nick125 | And did you try gutenprint/gimp-print |
| 01:19.51 | nick125 | ? |
| 01:20.04 | Supaplex | nawe, that looks new. I'll try that now |
| 01:42.21 | nick125 | Supaplex: any luck? |
| 01:42.53 | Supaplex | usb cable is too short :P I'll have to see about where I placed my 4port hub as a make-due repeater. |
| 01:43.10 | nick125 | haha |
| 01:44.19 | Supaplex | as the mosquito flys, it's 6ft, but it's more like 8-10' with where the cable needs to lay |
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| 02:08.41 | Supaplex | for me! |
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| 02:19.21 | Supaplex | I once bit a cow, many times, and it was yummy. |
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| 02:35.08 | graphyx | howdy. |
| 02:35.27 | Supaplex | greetings |
| 03:14.28 | findlay | greetness |
| 03:29.20 | *** part/#utah graphyx (n=mike@70.168.37.205) |
| 03:30.20 | *** join/#utah fozzmoo (n=fozz@166-70-238-250.ip.xmission.com) |
| 03:48.57 | findlay | fozzolimocapacious! |
| 03:56.14 | goozbach | oh noes! they be hackings my dns! |
| 03:56.57 | Supaplex | sweet, my attack on 127.0.0.1 is working! ;) |
| 03:57.28 | findlay | cool |
| 03:58.35 | goozbach | make sure you don't visit payroll |
| 03:58.41 | goozbach | that site needs to be secure |
| 03:58.52 | goozbach | oh and look at 99.bottles-of-beer.friocorte.com |
| 03:59.02 | goozbach | did that with three lines of code |
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| 05:39.11 | herlo | anyone know of any good database design tools |
| 05:39.15 | herlo | open source preferred, but free required |
| 05:39.19 | herlo | I want database, not UML |
| 05:39.25 | herlo | and it should run on LINUX! |
| 05:41.43 | Supaplex | I bet #postgresql has some ideas. |
| 05:43.37 | herlo | Supaplex: yeah, but I don't wanna spend days and weeks learning postgresql |
| 05:44.14 | Tene | herlo: can you give an example of the sort of thing you want? |
| 05:44.16 | Supaplex | but Pg roxors. it's worth the pain :) |
| 05:45.01 | herlo | Tene: indeed I can... |
| 05:45.09 | herlo | something like this: http://fabforce.net/dbdesigner4/ |
| 05:45.12 | brac | [fabFORCE.net] |
| 05:45.33 | herlo | dbdesigner is nice, but it appears I'm missing a couple rpms that either no longer exist, or are fairly old... |
| 05:45.49 | herlo | I could install from source, and I'm considering that, but this is my first look into it as well... |
| 05:46.05 | Tene | herlo: and what do you want to use it for? |
| 05:47.11 | Tene | http://www.pgadmin.org/ is kinda like that, for postgres specifically. |
| 05:47.11 | brac | [pgAdmin III: PostgreSQL administration and management tools] |
| 05:47.30 | Tene | I'm a bit confused about why you'd be creating a custom database if you don't plan to be learning or using SQL. |
| 05:47.32 | herlo | Tene: designing a db from scratch and I don't wanna have to write out all of the definitions by hand |
| 05:47.41 | herlo | Tene: its not about learning sql |
| 05:47.54 | herlo | its about learning postgresql db management style |
| 05:48.25 | Tene | I thought that CREATE TABLE and friends were pretty standard. Is that not true in your experience? |
| 05:49.17 | findlay | HOW CAN STUFF IN CAPS HAVE FIRENDS IN THE FIRST PLACE? |
| 05:49.22 | herlo | Tene: forget it, I am not looking for that stuff |
| 05:49.37 | herlo | Tene: I'm looking to design the db, not write sql all day |
| 05:49.46 | herlo | I just want to visually see it in my head |
| 05:49.48 | Tene | herlo: I was curious, not challenging. Really. |
| 05:49.57 | findlay | ~challenge herlo |
| 05:50.09 | Tene | I have no issues with using things like that. |
| 05:50.13 | findlay | Tene: but herlo obviously wants a challenge :) |
| 05:50.23 | herlo | Tene: I know, but it seems when I point out its somethign I don't want, it seems that they have to verify why |
| 05:50.31 | herlo | nothing personal, just I know what I want...anyway |
| 05:50.41 | herlo | ~lart findlay |
| 05:50.41 | ibot | beats the living hamstercrap out of findlay |
| 05:51.00 | Tene | I haven't seen a tool that works on lots of different DBs, but pgadmin works for postgres, there are a few for mysql, etc. |
| 05:51.12 | herlo | pgadmin? |
| 05:51.15 | herlo | interesting |
| 05:51.21 | Tene | I posted a link a little while ago. |
| 05:51.33 | Tene | 22:46 < Tene> http://www.pgadmin.org/ is kinda like that, for postgres specifically. |
| 05:51.33 | findlay | -urls 65536 |
| 05:51.37 | brac | [pgAdmin III: PostgreSQL administration and management tools] |
| 05:51.37 | brac | [2007/12/17 22:47:02] <Tene> http://www.pgadmin.org/ |
| 05:51.37 | brac | [2007/12/17 22:45:11] <herlo> http://fabforce.net/dbdesigner4/ |
| 05:51.39 | brac | [2007/12/17 18:19:29] <Supaplex> http://tinyurl.com/28jy78 |
| 05:51.39 | brac | [2007/12/17 17:24:23] <sjansen> http://valleywag.com/tech/facebook/facebook-in-30-years-334419.php |
| 05:51.39 | brac | [2007/12/17 16:43:21] <mrpull> http://funroll-loops.info/van.jpg |
| 05:51.40 | herlo | I guess I could use phpmyadmin for php, but I'm still thinking 10000ft level |
| 05:51.41 | brac | [2007/12/17 16:41:40] <mrpull> http://www.funroll-loops.org/? |
| 05:51.41 | Tene | -urls findlay |
| 05:51.43 | brac | [2007/12/17 16:40:07] <Lars-UT> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=209681 |
| 05:51.45 | brac | [2007/12/17 16:28:54] <Lars-UT> http://weblogs.media.mit.edu/llk/scratch/' |
| 05:51.47 | brac | [2007/12/17 16:25:46] <herlo> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Squeak |
| 05:51.48 | herlo | findlay: thx |
| 05:51.49 | brac | [2007/12/17 16:19:03] <sjansen> http://aplawrence.com/Unixart/rsyslog_php_syslog_ng.html |
| 05:51.50 | findlay | there it is |
| 05:51.51 | brac | incorrect usage, ask for help using 'brac: help urls' |
| 05:51.58 | Tene | brac: help findlay |
| 05:51.59 | brac | no help for topic findlay |
| 05:52.10 | findlay | there's no help out there for me :( |
| 05:52.12 | Supaplex | so true |
| 05:52.34 | herlo | Tene: yeah, got it, especially after all the help from findlay :/ |
| 05:52.50 | findlay | just trying to maximize helpfulness |
| 05:53.21 | herlo | so back to my original question |
| 05:53.44 | herlo | I just want a simple db designer that can help me layout a database like I do on my whiteboard |
| 05:53.56 | herlo | pgadmin looks cool, and I'll give it a try... |
| 05:54.19 | herlo | but I'm looking for a pretty gui that can help me visualize the links between and normalize before I implement the db |
| 05:54.20 | Tene | herlo: I think Open Office Base has something like that too. |
| 05:54.36 | Tene | I haven't used it, though. |
| 05:55.03 | herlo | Tene: could do, I think I've that installed actually |
| 05:59.39 | Tene | I see a fedora package, mysql-gui-tools |
| 05:59.52 | herlo | interesting |
| 06:00.19 | herlo | Tene: though I am guessing that's more of admin tools for mysql |
| 06:00.28 | herlo | I'd be fine using postgres actually |
| 06:00.30 | Supaplex | <insert yawn here> |
| 06:01.12 | herlo | MySQL Administrator enables developers and DBAs to easily perform |
| 06:01.12 | herlo | all the command line operations visually including configuring servers, |
| 06:01.12 | herlo | administering users, and dynamically monitoring database health. Other |
| 06:01.12 | herlo | common administrative tasks such as monitoring replication status, |
| 06:01.12 | herlo | backup and restore, and viewing logs can also be performed through the |
| 06:01.14 | herlo | MySQL Administrator graphical console. |
| 06:02.19 | Tene | Ahh. |
| 06:02.35 | Tene | I took a nap for a few hours earlier this evening. |
| 06:02.45 | Tene | This HP class is a bit weird. |
| 06:03.19 | herlo | yeah? All of those sorts of classes are interesting... |
| 06:03.46 | Tene | Only one or two of the students have ever even used linux at all before, ever. |
| 06:03.53 | Tene | Only windows. |
| 06:04.02 | Tene | It's a 250. |
| 06:04.07 | fozzmoo | Whoa! |
| 06:04.22 | fozzmoo | That *is* weird! |
| 06:04.43 | Tene | Also they've sent me some confusing, uninformative emails. |
| 06:05.02 | herlo | Tene: that's actually pretty normal for HP classes. |
| 06:05.04 | fozzmoo | Like, "I enjoy cheese." Stuff like that? |
| 06:05.23 | fozzmoo | I hate those kinds of e-mail. |
| 06:05.41 | fozzmoo | (Tene: e-mail is a non-count noun. I'm just sayin'.) |
| 06:05.43 | herlo | Tene: the companies that spend money on HP classes are cheap and expect their students to pick up the basics right away |
| 06:06.42 | Tene | fozzmoo: thanks. |
| 06:07.34 | fozzmoo | Tene: Any reasonably educated linguist would tell me I'm a pigheaded amateur- that language is what it is and anything that rises to common use is... "the form." |
| 06:08.29 | fozzmoo | Nonetheless, I protest! I do not remove the dusts from my furniture! Nor do I eat spaghettis when I sit down for my favorite Italian dish. |
| 06:09.17 | fozzmoo | Thank you! Thank you! you guys have been great. |
| 06:09.37 | fozzmoo | Be sure to tip your waitress. |
| 06:09.49 | herlo | fozzmoo: will you be here all week? |
| 06:10.09 | fozzmoo | Is it going to be open-mic all week? :) |
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| 06:10.43 | Lakshmi | heh why? |
| 06:10.46 | Lakshmi | fozzmoo ! |
| 06:10.54 | Lakshmi | hey |
| 06:11.02 | fozzmoo | I finished my performance. |
| 06:11.12 | fozzmoo | There wasn't enough applause to warrant an encore. |
| 06:11.32 | fozzmoo | \Just some guy saying disgustingly, "you gonna be here all week?" |
| 06:11.48 | Lakshmi | encore encore!! |
| 06:12.46 | fozzmoo | Be sure to tip the pretty young thing from San José on your way out. |
| 06:12.54 | *** part/#utah linuxalien (n=macintar@oalug/member/linuxalien) |
| 06:13.08 | herlo | ~lart fozzmoo |
| 06:13.08 | ibot | squeezes fozzmoo till fozzmoo turns blue like papa smurf |
| 06:14.33 | fozzmoo | Tene: Did I ever tell you about the perpetually happy lunchlady? |
| 06:15.01 | Tene | fozzmoo: nope |
| 06:15.06 | fozzmoo | that's a story. |
| 06:15.35 | fozzmoo | hispanic lady that worked in one of the cafeterias at USU. She worked at the burrito place. |
| 06:15.37 | fozzmoo | So happy. |
| 06:16.02 | Tene | 'kay |
| 06:16.04 | fozzmoo | She would always say, as she was making your burrito, "You enjoy cheese? You enjoy chicken?" |
| 06:16.19 | Tene | Interesting. |
| 06:16.21 | fozzmoo | and so on. |
| 06:16.41 | fozzmoo | Anyway. A little background for you. |
| 06:17.11 | fozzmoo | Then... one day... she was.. gone. |
| 06:18.06 | fozzmoo | Was her unusual food preparation nomenclature her way of crying out for help? |
| 06:18.13 | fozzmoo | we'll never know. |
| 06:18.20 | Tene | Huh. |
| 06:18.54 | Supaplex | and next week the mystery meat burrito was half price? |
| 06:19.10 | fozzmoo | Supaplex: I saw that episode of Buffy. :) |
| 06:19.24 | Supaplex | :> |
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| 06:51.38 | brac | [~ |
| 06:51.38 | brac | ~say Next Friday will not be your lucky day. As a matter of fact, you don't |
| 06:51.39 | ibot | Next Friday will not be your lucky day. As a matter of fact, you don't |
| 06:51.39 | brac | have a lucky day this year. |
| 06:51.39 | brac | ~] |
| 06:52.27 | findlay | ~luck |
| 06:52.28 | ibot | luck is, like, what you dont have. |
| 06:52.39 | findlay | well, what do you have? |
| 06:59.47 | findlay | -chat what am I going to do tomorrow? |
| 06:59.48 | brac | don't ask me |
| 06:59.48 | brac | incorrect usage, ask for help using 'brac: help chat' |
| 06:59.57 | findlay | -chat lucky day |
| 06:59.58 | brac | lucky day |
| 07:00.00 | findlay | -chat lucky day. |
| 07:00.00 | brac | lucky day. As a Windows server??? |
| 07:00.09 | findlay | ~lart yesterday |
| 07:00.09 | ibot | slaps yesterday upside and over the head with one freakishly huge killer whale named hugh |
| 07:00.22 | findlay | so it is |
| 07:07.24 | levi | Man, Bryan Sant is a Java fanboy. |
| 07:16.11 | Supaplex | ~lart vmware-server 2 beta and its busticated so called malformed login service url |
| 07:16.11 | ibot | puts on a hockey mask and jumps out at vmware-server 2 beta and its busticated so called malformed login service url |
| 07:16.22 | sontek | levi: someones gotta do it, just be glad you don't have to touch it |
| 07:16.48 | levi | The JVM isn't so bad, as long as you run something like Scala on it. :) |
| 07:19.10 | levi | I tried to justify the fact that the JVM has a pretty big heap size by default, and he attacked like a rabid dog because I apparently called into question the awesomeness of the JVM's garbage collector. |
| 07:20.39 | levi | i.e., your research is crap! Here's a DeveloperWorks article that refutes it! Nevermind that DeveloperWorks is only slightly more credible than the average blog, and that the research you cite was actually published in a journal! |
| 07:22.06 | levi | So he reads the research paper like it's some anti-GC polemic, and tries to poke all sorts of holes in it. |
| 07:23.11 | levi | *sigh* |
| 07:40.21 | RyanE | eh, I figure it's sort of his own punishment, having to code in Java. |
| 07:40.37 | RyanE | some sort of Stockholm Syndrome of programming languages. |
| 07:41.12 | Sargun | lol |
| 07:41.50 | RyanE | glad someone appreciated that one, thought I was too late. ba-*dum*-bum |
| 07:52.28 | findlay | I'm too late |
| 07:52.35 | findlay | therefore I'm crazy |
| 08:12.51 | Tene | parrot's 'perl6' compiler now passes all the sanity tests. |
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| 10:11.45 | Lakshmi | hi |
| 10:11.50 | Lakshmi | who's alive/ |
| 10:11.50 | Lakshmi | ? |
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| 13:47.45 | Sargun | hi |
| 14:22.21 | ^Migs^ | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irEAuBdhRN0 |
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| 14:31.23 | ^Migs^ | my heart started pounding when I saw that trailer |
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| 16:05.00 | goozbach | a cat once bit my cow! |
| 16:05.29 | tristanbob | herlo, I don't see what dig ubuntu.com is special |
| 16:05.37 | goozbach | a $noun once bit my $othernoun |
| 16:05.50 | tristanbob | you kicked my dog! |
| 16:05.56 | herlo | tristanbob: look at the dns servers... |
| 16:06.17 | tristanbob | do I need another option to dig? |
| 16:06.21 | herlo | nope |
| 16:06.29 | redbeard2 | mythic-beasts? |
| 16:06.33 | Kemotaha | sweet |
| 16:06.38 | elg | -chat |
| 16:06.38 | brac | "Turkish Hackers" attacked the OALUG actually do the same area |
| 16:06.52 | elg | ooh, stay away from them turkish hackers |
| 16:06.53 | herlo | tristanbob: hmm, I just noticed it didn't respond with the nameservers for me either |
| 16:06.55 | elg | especially around the holidays |
| 16:06.56 | tristanbob | herlo, try it from ubuntu - no NS records returned, only A record |
| 16:06.59 | Kemotaha | there has to be a story behinc that one |
| 16:07.02 | tristanbob | maybe they changed it |
| 16:07.03 | goozbach | http://mythic-beasts.com./ |
| 16:07.15 | brac | [Mythic Beasts - UK-based shell hosting, co-location and Virtual Dedicated Servers] |
| 16:07.21 | tristanbob | there be dragons |
| 16:07.35 | redbeard2 | tristanbob: dig -t ns ubuntu.com |
| 16:07.35 | Kemotaha | ahh that isn't a good story |
| 16:07.41 | Kemotaha | just the hosting company |
| 16:08.03 | tristanbob | redbeard2, thanks - I thought that -t ns would be necessary to see it |
| 16:08.24 | tristanbob | host -al ubuntu.com ns.ubuntu.com |
| 16:08.28 | redbeard2 | tristanbob: mine shows the ns servers automatically. what flavor are you using? |
| 16:08.29 | tristanbob | my newest learned trick! |
| 16:08.36 | tristanbob | ubuntu 7.10 |
| 16:08.40 | redbeard2 | me too |
| 16:08.43 | redbeard2 | weird |
| 16:08.55 | tristanbob | yah - perhaps it depends on your DNS server |
| 16:08.59 | herlo | redbeard2: in suse, it just did that.... |
| 16:09.30 | tristanbob | is it unusual to allow zone transfers from anywhere? |
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| 16:09.36 | herlo | yes |
| 16:09.47 | tristanbob | that is what I thought - great for security recon |
| 16:09.52 | goozbach | tristanbob: it's a security hole |
| 16:09.53 | tristanbob | or should I say hacking recon |
| 16:10.08 | tristanbob | did you see that ubuntu.com is open for zone transfers? |
| 16:10.17 | tristanbob | host -al ubuntu.com ns.ubuntu.com |
| 16:10.17 | goozbach | in other words, this shouldn't happen: host -l friocorte.com ns1.friocorte.com |
| 16:10.42 | goozbach | yes, that is less secure |
| 16:10.48 | tristanbob | man, that must be a bad system administrator there.... |
| 16:10.48 | goozbach | bad on them! |
| 16:10.55 | tristanbob | ;) |
| 16:11.00 | goozbach | I do it intentionally for demonstration purposes |
| 16:11.23 | tristanbob | I am glad you did - I learned how to do zone queries |
| 16:11.32 | Kemotaha | I just have mine zone transfer so my caching name server at home can just act as another DNS for it :) |
| 16:11.33 | tristanbob | and test our own DNS servers |
| 16:11.36 | Kemotaha | j/k |
| 16:12.42 | Kemotaha | mythic beasts offer mac min colocation services, awesome: |
| 16:12.42 | Kemotaha | http://mythic-beasts.com/macminicolo.html |
| 16:12.45 | brac | [Mythic Beasts - Mac Mini co-location] |
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| 17:31.10 | findlay | hello |
| 17:31.17 | findlay | hello levi |
| 17:34.27 | Jayce^ | levi, nah, brain is already detached, so shaking won't do anything |
| 17:39.14 | levi | Hi, findlay. |
| 17:44.42 | Supaplex | ssh root@levi apt-get --reinstall install brain |
| 17:45.46 | levi | My brain is fine. It's Bryan's that's off in another world. |
| 17:45.46 | levi | Another world where, given only slightly more space than would be necessary with manual memory management, a garbage collector has better performance. |
| 17:45.47 | Supaplex | s/levi/Jayce^/ |
| 17:45.53 | Supaplex | :P |
| 17:46.26 | levi | The paper I cited shows that you sometimes get better performance when you give it 7x the heap space. |
| 17:47.13 | levi | With 3x the heap space, you only have a low percentage of performance degradation. |
| 17:47.27 | levi | With only 2x the heap space, you end up with serious degradation. |
| 17:51.46 | tensai | levi: those results are surprising, but it does explain a lot about java |
| 17:53.00 | Supaplex | hummm gprof are you my friend ... (Studying man pages ...) |
| 17:54.26 | findlay | levi: what about gc's for other languages? They don't seem to be quite the same |
| 17:55.40 | elg | -chat |
| 17:55.41 | brac | which has devolved into 'the web is now REACHABLE!" and "Peer 'arrivaltel' is now |
| 17:57.17 | findlay | -chat Bryan's |
| 17:57.17 | brac | Bryan's is |
| 17:57.28 | findlay | -chat levi |
| 17:57.29 | brac | levi did |
| 17:57.38 | findlay | -chat jsmith |
| 17:57.38 | brac | jsmith had pancakes |
| 17:58.48 | jsmith | -chat abouf findlay was |
| 17:58.48 | brac | incorrect usage, ask for help using 'brac: help chat' |
| 17:58.52 | jsmith | -chat about findlay was |
| 17:58.53 | brac | findlay was joking |
| 18:04.44 | levi | findlay: The paper covered quite a few different GC styles, and they all perform worse than the one Java uses. |
| 18:20.28 | tensai | levi: other interpreted languages use GC, like perl and python, right? but they don't seem to use memory like java does and they still perform well. any idea why? |
| 18:24.13 | levi | tensai: Well, it depends on what you mean by 'perform well'. |
| 18:24.56 | tensai | I guess all I'm saying is that perl and python don't seem to get the same complaints as java does |
| 18:24.57 | levi | In reality, they perform far worse than, e.g., a compiled C program. That's what Java's getting compared against. |
| 18:25.33 | levi | People whine too much about Java. It actually performs very well. |
| 18:25.51 | tristanbob | ~complain about Java |
| 18:26.12 | levi | Some of the stuff /written in Java/ might not perform well, but that's not the fault of the JVM. |
| 18:26.56 | levi | People just aren't expecting perl and python to run with the same speed and memory characteristics as C++. |
| 18:33.22 | levi | Also, because they're interpreted and a large percentage of their standard libraries are implemented in C with manual memory management, they're a significantly different animal. |
| 18:37.22 | elg | i think the main reason people perceive of java as slow is startup time |
| 18:37.48 | elg | how many people are *really* writing programs where cpu speed is an issue at all? |
| 18:40.02 | levi | I think it's kind of funny that Bryan continues to refuse to believe me, even when given plenty of evidence. |
| 18:51.29 | maquis | elg: cpu *can* be an issue |
| 18:51.51 | maquis | running out of cpu sucks |
| 18:52.47 | levi | elg: I think another reason people perceive java as slow is Swing. |
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| 19:10.47 | findlay | levi: so the whole java entity sits on the 'runtime', whatever that is, and none of it is 'written in C with manual memory management'? |
| 19:12.39 | levi | findlay: The java virtual machine is written (as far as I know) in C++, but all the software that runs on top of the JVM is written in Java, or more accurately is written in JVM bytecodes. |
| 19:13.37 | levi | So, while in Perl a regular expression would be interpreted by a highly-optimized bit of C, in Java it would be interpreted by some Java code that was compiled to JVM bytecodes and then compiled to machine code by the JVM. |
| 19:18.40 | findlay | interesting |
| 19:19.11 | levi | If you tried to do that with perl or python, you would find that the performance sucked. |
| 19:19.19 | findlay | and yet perl/python/ruby are still able to maintain pretty good platform independentness |
| 19:19.34 | levi | Well, that's because C can be fairly portable. |
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| 19:20.39 | findlay | so, just take all of the cool things about JVM and implement them in a perl/python/ruby and now you have all that GC goodness along with the C libraries :) |
| 19:20.52 | findlay | s/ruby/ruby VM/ |
| 19:23.25 | ^Migs^ | the way this whole article is written is funny: http://news.wired.com/dynamic/stories/D/DEATH_STAR?SITE=WIRE&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2007-12-18-00-26-52 |
| 19:23.41 | ^Migs^ | bunch of nerdy astronomers getting excited over something |
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| 19:28.51 | bbeattie | anyone know of S-corps in utah require more than one person on than one person on the board of directors? |
| 19:28.59 | bbeattie | s/of/if |
| 19:29.15 | Shadowwire | I think you need three. |
| 19:29.47 | levi | findlay: You don't /want/ the C libraries, though. You want a language fast enough that you can at least implement its own libraries in itself, and ideally it should be self-hosting, i.e. entirely implemented in itself. |
| 19:33.28 | bbeattie | I need to set up some type of business to get a tax ID, s-corp is the best for small contract development jobs to overall pay less in SS taxes (or other taxes) correct? |
| 19:35.35 | Kemotaha | bbeattie: I don't think it takes three but it might take 2. My dad has one for his consulting. and I am pretty sure there is Him and my Mother only |
| 20:00.39 | tensai | bbeattie: soliciting tax advice via irc is not what I would consider the wisest business decision. have you consulted a cpa? |
| 20:12.06 | Shadowwire | Capitol Punnishment Agency? |
| 20:14.12 | rsimpkins | Anyone wanna suggest their favorite wiki? |
| 20:14.34 | ^Migs^ | uncyclopedia.org |
| 20:14.46 | rsimpkins | bbeattie: I had an S-Corp for a number of years. |
| 20:15.30 | rsimpkins | ^Migs^: Sorry, I meant wiki software. |
| 20:15.37 | rsimpkins | mediawiki, twiki, etc. |
| 20:18.27 | fozzmoo | rsimpkins: TWiki |
| 20:18.44 | fozzmoo | (Not the be confused with Twiki, the annoying robot character on Buck Rogers.) |
| 20:23.22 | Jayce^ | bbeattie, they don't |
| 20:23.32 | Jayce^ | you can do a Utah LLC, or s-corp as one.. |
| 20:24.02 | RyanE | bbeattie: you around today |
| 20:26.45 | bbeattie | ryane: a little |
| 20:27.14 | RyanE | bbeattie: location? |
| 20:27.47 | RyanE | bbeattie: I may be taking off in a bit, thought I could get the demo, drop off your gear if that worked. |
| 20:29.49 | tristanbob | anyone here use Splunk? |
| 20:31.45 | bbeattie | ryane: home, I could demo but FYI I'm running stuff that's over a month old so you won't see the newest stuff. |
| 20:31.59 | RyanE | bbeattie: if another day worked better, that'd be fine. |
| 20:33.42 | bbeattie | ryane: it will probably be after Christmas (or during) when I get time to update my home again, and it would be nice to get the switches for christmas, I will be up there tomorrow and could get them from you, so it's whether you want to see stuff now, or in a few weeks when I've updated my home. |
| 20:35.32 | RyanE | bbeattie: ok. If you're in the neighborhood tomorrow, I'll bring them in to work, and you can drop by C4 HQ. |
| 20:36.39 | bbeattie | ryane: sounds good. .. You are more than welcome to come by and see stuff, it's what version you want to see. |
| 20:37.50 | RyanE | bbeattie: so where is it updated? at 'work'? can I come by there? |
| 20:51.27 | elg | jackson to produce hobbit |
| 20:52.34 | Jayce^ | yeah, finally announced |
| 20:53.51 | herlo | I just built my first RPM! |
| 20:54.11 | Supaplex | yay herlo :) |
| 20:54.15 | herlo | yay me! |
| 20:55.26 | Supaplex | libwww-mechanize-shell-perl :) |
| 20:55.49 | Jayce^ | dh-make ? |
| 20:55.58 | Jayce^ | keep meaning to do a blog post on that |
| 20:56.49 | Supaplex | yup. this critter needs --notest |
| 20:58.08 | Supaplex | $someday ivan will use it. ;) |
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| 21:04.38 | Jayce^ | yeah I had problems building some of the recent mechanize modules on deb :( |
| 21:04.46 | Jayce^ | failing tests and such |
| 21:08.33 | Supaplex | and there are not a few deps that are needed. fun chasing these down by hand... :P |
| 21:08.54 | Jayce^ | yeah |
| 21:09.18 | Jayce^ | tried doing cpanp, since it can do debs, but something about the build from debian isn't working |
| 21:09.21 | Jayce^ | own't let it run |
| 21:11.19 | Supaplex | humph, bash + ^R is playing bad screen paste games while editing the command line and history. |
| 21:14.54 | goozbach | so awesome |
| 21:15.07 | goozbach | the office just got a Wii |
| 21:15.52 | Supaplex | use parent 'HTML::Display::Win32::OLE'; |
| 21:15.58 | Supaplex | what's the parent mean? |
| 21:19.31 | Jayce^ | http://search.cpan.org/~corion/parent-0.219/lib/parent.pm |
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| 21:27.07 | hagna | any hams around here? |
| 21:32.16 | Tene | parrot 0.5.1 is on cpan |
| 21:38.48 | Kemotaha | hagna: I used to be, what's up? |
| 21:41.14 | hagna | Kemotaha: I'm struggling to understand the physics behind why you have to ground RF equipment |
| 21:41.29 | hagna | Kemotaha: found this about impedence |
| 21:41.30 | hagna | http://radioworks.com/nbgnd.html |
| 21:41.32 | brac | [Ground Problems] |
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| 22:05.07 | tensai | hagna: I don't understand the reasons, but I know my company had tons of issues of failed outdoor equipment before we started installing grounds |
| 22:05.33 | hagna | tensai: what does your company do? |
| 22:06.06 | tensai | hagna: ISP. in this case it's wireless internet. |
| 22:06.26 | hagna | so antennas on tops of buildings etc? |
| 22:06.31 | tensai | correct |
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| 22:07.09 | hagna | tensai: do they ground it all the way to the ground or something else? |
| 22:07.41 | tensai | hagna: we put in a 6 foot grounding rod and use a neat little device that grounds the cat5. the radios are power over ethernet. |
| 22:07.57 | hagna | in the ground? |
| 22:08.35 | tensai | the grounding rod goes in the ground, yet. 5' 10" down, or there abouts |
| 22:08.41 | Tene | power over dirt-net |
| 22:08.47 | tensai | s/yet/yes/ |
| 22:09.45 | Kemotaha | hagna: the ground is used to get rid of the extra current that comes back from the antenna |
| 22:10.27 | Kemotaha | In order to send a signal you basically bounce the signal from one side of the antenna to the other. That is why they are specfic lengths. |
| 22:10.28 | hagna | Kemotaha: SWR? |
| 22:10.41 | Kemotaha | Yes |
| 22:11.03 | hagna | so if the antenna is on the roof the ground has to go the physical ground |
| 22:11.35 | Kemotaha | What happens IIRC is that the ground can actaully become an antenna and interfer with the signal. |
| 22:11.44 | hagna | but if the length of the cable is close to 1/4 wavelength the impedence will be too high for the extra to go to the ground |
| 22:11.55 | Kemotaha | yes |
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| 22:11.59 | Kemotaha | that sounds right |
| 22:12.50 | hagna | so how do you keep the impedence low and how do you keep the ground from becoming an antenna |
| 22:12.58 | Kemotaha | There are a couple of good Ham clubs around that can help |
| 22:13.28 | Kemotaha | I believe you need the length close to a 1/2 wavelength in order for it to see it as a short |
| 22:13.58 | hagna | it's not just one wavelength though |
| 22:14.03 | hagna | it's a whole band |
| 22:18.12 | Kemotaha | worry got sidetracked |
| 22:18.38 | Kemotaha | Check this one out and see if it helps: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2775/gndsys.html |
| 22:18.42 | brac | [Grounding Systems for Amateur Radio Stations] |
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| 22:30.08 | hagna | thanks |
| 22:33.39 | hagna | hey tensai "A popular misconception is that all radio antenna systems should be grounded to enhance their radio performance." |
| 22:33.45 | hagna | http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2775/gndsys.html |
| 22:33.46 | brac | [Grounding Systems for Amateur Radio Stations] |
| 22:35.06 | tensai | hagna: interesting. I believe our reasoning isn't for performance but for dispersion of static. the antenna itself isn't grounded. the power source and network cabling are. |
| 22:35.20 | hagna | hmm |
| 22:36.05 | tensai | nothing stops a bolt of lightening though. I think we've had 5 lightening strikes to our towers, that I can remember anyway. |
| 22:36.44 | hagna | wow |
| 22:38.50 | dataw0lf | lightning* |
| 22:38.54 | tensai | one hit our company headquarters and blew out most of our network switches |
| 22:39.03 | dataw0lf | unless you're talking about evil fluorescent lamps taking your towers down |
| 22:39.09 | tensai | dataw0lf: duly noted |
| 22:39.19 | hagna | was it a hit and run? |
| 22:39.55 | tensai | it was a hit and dissipate |
| 22:40.21 | dataw0lf | heh |
| 23:05.36 | undertakingyou | Kemotaha: ping |
| 23:14.15 | *** part/#utah pelaofeliz (n=PelaoFel@67.108.236.230) |
| 23:27.47 | Kemotaha | undertakingyou: pong |
| 23:30.12 | undertakingyou | Kemotaha: I just wanted to say that I got OpenSync working with my BB. Wondering if you had worked or yours at all. |
| 23:32.34 | findlay | is there a way to mount a samba share like an NFS dir? |
| 23:32.56 | Kemotaha | undertakingyou: haven't tried it yet |
| 23:33.14 | undertakingyou | findlay sudo mount -t cifs \\\\<IPaddr>\\<Share> |
| 23:33.30 | undertakingyou | Kemotaha: it is pretty cool. |
| 23:33.35 | findlay | thanks |
| 23:34.00 | Kemotaha | undertakingyou: send me what you did, if you got it written down. Also post it to the devel list |
| 23:34.19 | Kemotaha | undertakingyou: I am tempted to just jump into Hardy and get it working there |
| 23:34.36 | undertakingyou | I don't know that I am that brave yet. |
| 23:34.44 | undertakingyou | I test hardy, not production though |
| 23:35.36 | Kemotaha | ahh, I ran debian unstable for a few years on my home system. you just don't update right after a release for a month or two |
| 23:36.07 | Kemotaha | Never lost data. I did run into a couple times when I had to boot from a rescue system though |
| 23:36.59 | undertakingyou | Kemotaha: here is the link that pointed me in the right direction: http://www.wahlau.org/opensync_revisited_now_with_gutsy |
| 23:37.51 | undertakingyou | then I read 'man msynctool' and used that from the command line |
| 23:38.10 | Kemotaha | you use bluetooth? |
| 23:40.29 | undertakingyou | Kemotaha: no, the cable. |
| 23:41.01 | Kemotaha | did you use the .22 opensync? |
| 23:41.07 | undertakingyou | yes |
| 23:41.19 | Kemotaha | 32 bit? |
| 23:41.23 | undertakingyou | yes |
| 23:41.43 | Kemotaha | I might have to play with it a bit. |
| 23:41.54 | Kemotaha | I will need to recompile it since I run the 64 bit version |
| 23:42.17 | undertakingyou | yeah, I don't have a 64 bit system. My choice is made for me. |
| 23:42.58 | Kemotaha | heheh |
| 23:44.10 | findlay | undertakingyou: that gives me a mount error :( |
| 23:44.35 | Kemotaha | just use normal slashes findlay it will work |
| 23:44.45 | Kemotaha | sudo mount -t cifs //ipaddr/share |
| 23:45.00 | findlay | Kemotaha: I already tried that |
| 23:45.03 | findlay | same error |
| 23:45.22 | Kemotaha | you probably want to test it with smbclient |
| 23:45.38 | findlay | it works with smbclient |
| 23:45.58 | Kemotaha | paste the command you are typing |
| 23:46.09 | findlay | smbclient //disco/office |
| 23:46.16 | Kemotaha | no the mount command |
| 23:46.18 | findlay | mount -t cifs //disco/office /mnt/office/ |
| 23:46.24 | Kemotaha | are you root? |
| 23:46.28 | findlay | yup |
| 23:46.35 | Kemotaha | what distro? |
| 23:46.39 | findlay | ubuntu |
| 23:46.44 | Kemotaha | 7.10? |
| 23:46.48 | findlay | yup |
| 23:47.53 | Kemotaha | does the smb share need a password or is a guest user fine? |
| 23:48.09 | findlay | no password |
| 23:49.12 | Kemotaha | let me try something really fast |
| 23:50.07 | undertakingyou | findlay: want machine are the shares on? |
| 23:50.27 | undertakingyou | If it is windows 2003 server you need to an a -o user=<username> |
| 23:50.42 | findlay | undertakingyou: it's centos |
| 23:53.59 | *** join/#utah knine (n=knine@128.187.161.118) |
| 23:55.01 | Kemotaha | findlay you have to install this package: smbfs |
| 23:55.18 | findlay | Kemotaha: already doing it |
| 23:55.19 | Kemotaha | I just tried it on my machine. I got the mount error as well until I installed that |
| 23:55.30 | findlay | just googled it :) |
| 23:56.01 | findlay | excellent, works now |
| 23:56.03 | undertakingyou | yeah, you do have to have smbfs |
| 23:56.07 | undertakingyou | sorry :| |
| 23:56.20 | findlay | well, seems like it's ubuntu's fault |
| 23:56.29 | findlay | or mount for not giving an instructive error |
| 23:57.22 | undertakingyou | true |
| 23:57.40 | undertakingyou | I don't know why that wouldn't be included anyways |
| 23:57.53 | tensai | wow! my sonicwall is finally working as its configuration tells it to. who'd have figured? |
