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| 01:23.28 | Lone_Wanderer | greetings, Utahns |
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| 02:18.17 | Sargun | hi Lone_Wanderer |
| 02:18.31 | Lone_Wanderer | hello Sargun. Please spit me out. |
| 02:19.02 | Lakshmi | uhh ? |
| 02:20.02 | Lone_Wanderer | He ate me. |
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| 02:26.15 | Lakshmi | fozzmoo !! |
| 02:26.29 | fozzmoo | Lakshmi! |
| 02:27.23 | Lakshmi | supp?! |
| 02:27.26 | Lone_Wanderer | Is anyone here familiar with Linode? |
| 02:31.48 | fozzmoo | Lakshmi: Not much. Just checking e-mail n' stuff. |
| 02:32.23 | Lakshmi | ah coool cool |
| 02:32.30 | Lakshmi | we got new magazines |
| 02:32.31 | Lakshmi | finally |
| 02:32.35 | Lakshmi | im soo excited |
| 02:32.36 | fozzmoo | new magazines? |
| 02:32.51 | Lakshmi | instead of having to read the same september issue 10 times a day |
| 02:32.58 | fozzmoo | What magazines? |
| 02:33.39 | Lakshmi | this one is US |
| 02:33.53 | fozzmoo | oh dear. |
| 02:34.03 | fozzmoo | Did I type that outloud? |
| 02:34.31 | fozzmoo | ;-) |
| 02:48.18 | Lakshmi | hehe |
| 02:49.48 | fozzmoo | I'm such a dork. When you said "new magazines," my first thought was tape magazines for a backup autoloader. |
| 02:51.16 | Lone_Wanderer | speaking of which... |
| 02:51.22 | fozzmoo | That was my second thought. |
| 02:54.40 | Lone_Wanderer | Hmm. Apparently you can't buy rifle parts online. |
| 02:55.22 | Lone_Wanderer | Ohh! I was wrong. |
| 03:05.09 | fozzmoo | whoa |
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| 05:38.05 | Lakshmi | aaarrr! |
| 05:42.51 | findlay | ~arr levi |
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| 06:40.25 | Sargun | hey all |
| 07:01.06 | findlay | ~hey Sargun |
| 07:01.06 | ibot | rumour has it, sargun is amazing. |
| 07:01.15 | findlay | ~hey findlay |
| 07:01.42 | findlay | ~literal cmd: hey Sargun |
| 07:01.47 | findlay | ~literal cmd: ~hey Sargun |
| 07:02.25 | findlay | man, elinks likes to use memory |
| 07:02.35 | findlay | might as well rename it eleaks :) |
| 07:04.00 | Lakshmi | hey findlay |
| 07:04.01 | Lakshmi | hey Sargun |
| 07:04.04 | Lakshmi | hey everyone? |
| 07:04.24 | findlay | hey |
| 07:04.32 | Lakshmi | sup? |
| 07:05.14 | findlay | Erik Satie |
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| 08:41.05 | Lakshmi | who understand metaphysics? |
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| 14:32.59 | elg | -chat |
| 14:33.00 | brac | anaphylactic shock sucks |
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| 15:41.39 | tensai | ~rlart |
| 15:41.39 | ibot | eats fozzmoo and falls over dead |
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| 16:50.52 | goozbach | anyone know what this is all about? http://perlbuzz.com/2007/12/tomorrows-a-big-day.html |
| 16:50.57 | brac | [Tomorrow's a big day! - Perl Buzz] |
| 16:52.29 | fozzmoo | goozbach: It means something BIG is probably going to happen tomorrow. |
| 16:52.32 | Jayce^ | probably the 5.10 release |
| 16:52.39 | Jayce^ | which is pretty major |
| 16:52.57 | jsmith | goozbach: Is that an onion on the cake, or a turnip? |
| 16:53.10 | Jayce^ | people have also talked about some new perl6 announcements, but I lean more towards 5.10 |
| 16:53.53 | goozbach | perl6 perl6 perl6 pleaseopleasebe perl6 :) |
| 16:54.09 | Jayce^ | goozbach, 5.10 has several major features from the perl6 design |
| 16:54.17 | Jayce^ | and was at RC3 last I saw |
| 16:54.22 | goozbach | I still want perl6 |
| 16:54.33 | goozbach | so my peridioc table on the wall will be usefull |
| 16:54.40 | tensai | why would my openwrt be transforming IPSEC packets, but nothing else? |
| 16:54.48 | tensai | I've got all NAT turned off |
| 16:55.04 | Jayce^ | what I want to know is why redbeard hasn't made a cake like that yet |
| 16:55.14 | goozbach | http://www.ozonehouse.com/mark/blog/code/PeriodicTable.html |
| 16:55.16 | tensai | (because NAT is Evil™) |
| 16:55.17 | brac | [Mark Lentczner's Journal] |
| 16:59.28 | fozzmoo | goozbach: Wow. |
| 16:59.30 | elg | ~weather kvel |
| 17:00.00 | fozzmoo | PHP may take the cake for most number of built-in functions, but Perl6 may win the prize for most operators. |
| 17:06.59 | findlay | nah, I prefer cakes to prizes |
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| 17:08.32 | Jayce^ | hey pjw_ what part of brasil? (re: twitter message yesterday) |
| 17:08.57 | pjw_ | Cuiaba |
| 17:09.11 | Jayce^ | fun :) *hot* |
| 17:13.24 | elg | -metar kvel |
| 17:13.25 | brac | KVEL 171653Z AUTO 00000KT 5SM BR BKN070 M19/M21 A3011 RMK AO2 SLP307 T11891206 FZRANO |
| 17:14.31 | pjw_ | yeah, it will be hot. :-) |
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| 18:02.14 | Tene | 5.10 |
| 18:02.42 | Tene | parrot is releasing 0.5.1 in a few more days, though. |
| 18:03.08 | fozzmoo | ~thank Tene |
| 18:03.08 | ibot | my pleasure, fozzmoo |
| 18:10.42 | tensai | ~confuse ibot |
| 18:10.42 | ibot | yes who was their pineapple today ? |
| 18:20.31 | Jayce^ | Tene, same thought |
| 18:29.15 | *** join/#utah Shadowwire (n=shadowwi@209-253-33-218.ip.mcleodusa.net) |
| 18:30.03 | Shadowwire | by the way, if one day you happen to wake up |
| 18:30.03 | Shadowwire | And find yourself in an existential quandary |
| 18:30.03 | Shadowwire | Full of loathing and self-doubt |
| 18:30.03 | Shadowwire | And wracked with the pain and isolation of your pitiful meaningless existence |
| 18:30.19 | Shadowwire | At least you can take a small bit of comfort in knowing that |
| 18:30.19 | Shadowwire | Somewhere out there in this crazy old mixed-up universe of ours |
| 18:30.19 | Shadowwire | There's still a little place called |
| 18:30.19 | Shadowwire | Albuquerque |
| 18:33.14 | Jayce^ | al++ |
| 18:39.38 | tensai | why, oh why must my mailman smoke so much? everything he delivers reeks of his filthy habit. |
| 18:40.00 | tensai | I mean, if you want to smoke all over your own stuff, go right ahead |
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| 18:47.50 | unum | when's the last bus to Alberqurque? |
| 18:47.56 | unum | those are famous last words |
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| 18:52.13 | tensai | if we learned anything from Bugs Bunny it was to always always make the left turn at Albequerque |
| 18:52.35 | goozbach | tensai: I thought it was a right turn |
| 18:52.57 | goozbach | and BTW I had the opportunity to turn right in Albequerque |
| 18:53.04 | goozbach | when I moved out to florida |
| 18:54.08 | tensai | http://www.barbneal.com/bugs.htm "I knew I shoulda takin'[sic] that left turn at Albuquerque." |
| 18:54.12 | brac | [Looney Tunes .WAV Files - Bugs Bunny] |
| 18:54.58 | goozbach | that's right... he always ends up in califorina/mexico. |
| 18:55.05 | goozbach | not in florida/the south |
| 18:55.49 | fozzmoo | Depends on where you're comin from, I guess. |
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| 19:05.06 | tensai | presumably he would be coming from burbank where the cartoons were drawn |
| 19:07.47 | herlo | tensai: Albuquerque :) |
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| 19:18.15 | sjansen | http://dissfunktional.wordpress.com/2007/12/16/high-school-student-in-detention-for-using-firefox/ |
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| 19:22.02 | undertakingyou | atoponce: ping |
| 19:22.11 | atoponce | undertakingyou: pong |
| 19:22.20 | undertakingyou | atoponce: can I pm you? |
| 19:22.53 | atoponce | yeah. you bet |
| 19:24.43 | tensai | sjansen is back to drive-by IRC again? |
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| 20:18.10 | brac | not through with a bot |
| 20:19.25 | Lars-UT | ~cokezero herlo |
| 20:19.26 | ibot | ACTION puts an iv in herlo and forces 120 ounces of Coke Zero into his veins |
| 20:19.43 | synic | well that's just not nice. |
| 20:21.30 | Lars-UT | herlo will understand - I predict a delayed reaction in 25 minutes |
| 20:23.18 | Lars-UT | ~jedi Jayce^ |
| 20:23.19 | ibot | ACTION jumps in her x-wing fighter and blows Jayce^ to pieces |
| 20:24.06 | Lars-UT | ~emulate Ms Bitters |
| 20:24.07 | ibot | The lesson here is that dreams inevitably lead to hideous implosions. |
| 20:26.38 | findlay | ~say -chat ~lart |
| 20:26.38 | ibot | -chat ~lart |
| 20:26.42 | brac | ~lart had |
| 20:26.42 | ibot | keeps mailing had free America Online CDs until he drowns |
| 20:27.53 | Lars-UT | findlay: sup? |
| 20:34.11 | findlay | hi |
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| 20:47.01 | Lars-UT | findlay: u still at CR? |
| 20:47.38 | findlay | Lars-UT: yeah |
| 20:48.07 | goozbach | ~literal emulate Ms Bitters |
| 20:48.07 | ibot | "emulate ms bitters" is "<reply>Everything was so nice and peaceful, 'til one day it all went horribly wrong!||<reply>So, young man, now you see that there's a price to pay for eating paste. Would you say that losing the use of your mouth was worth it?||<reply>There's a pigeon on your head! You've got head pigeons! Get to the nurse before they spread to the other ... |
| 20:48.09 | unum | anyone here getting an XO? |
| 20:48.59 | findlay | ~literate goozbach |
| 20:49.06 | findlay | ~literati |
| 20:49.11 | findlay | ~dict literati |
| 20:49.19 | findlay | unum: thought about it |
| 20:49.44 | findlay | how about you get one and give one to me :) |
| 20:49.58 | *** join/#utah TimRiker (n=timr@pdpc/supporter/bronze/TimRiker) |
| 20:49.58 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 20:50.10 | findlay | TimRiker: do you desire an XO? |
| 20:53.09 | Kemotaha | XO? |
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| 20:55.47 | findlay | laptop.org/laptop/ |
| 20:56.32 | tensai | XO would be a neat toy, but I can't see it being very useful to me |
| 20:58.11 | findlay | yeah |
| 20:58.35 | TimRiker | it's failed it's design goal. that's unfortunate. |
| 20:58.42 | findlay | what's that? |
| 20:59.14 | TimRiker | it should be an embedded device, with a small footprint. last I looked it was running pretty much a full redhat linux distro. |
| 20:59.24 | TimRiker | 300M and climbing from what I heard. |
| 20:59.29 | findlay | hm |
| 20:59.47 | findlay | do you know anything about the eee pc? |
| 21:00.05 | TimRiker | nope, not familiar with that name. |
| 21:00.07 | tensai | I know it's a dumb name |
| 21:00.21 | tensai | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASUS_Eee_PC |
| 21:00.38 | TimRiker | I played with the OLPC back in July or so. I was not impressed. |
| 21:01.26 | tensai | Kemotaha: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OLPC_XO-1 |
| 21:01.32 | Jayce^ | hehe.. dataw0lf you can chime in on plug about TOP now :) |
| 21:01.52 | unum | I just want a laptop to do presentations on |
| 21:01.58 | unum | so I'm tempted to get one |
| 21:02.05 | unum | all I need is a web browser |
| 21:02.37 | findlay | unum: I'm waiting for the eee pc (or similar) to fall in price a little for similar reasons |
| 21:04.34 | TimRiker | a real $100 laptop is interesting. don't know if any of these will actually reach that goal. |
| 21:04.39 | dataw0lf | Jayce^: hehe, I was tempted to, but I'm a bit busy to give it the full attention (flame) it deserves. |
| 21:04.56 | TimRiker | I'd rather have a full featured smart phone for the prices that these currently sell for. |
| 21:04.59 | Jayce^ | aww, c'mon.. it's smorrey... |
| 21:05.51 | dataw0lf | yea, that condenses my argument into one sentence "You're smorrey, you have no idea what you're talking about." |
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| 21:07.42 | herlo | Lars-UT: 25 minutes? |
| 21:07.55 | herlo | Lars-UT: I'll 25-minutes you! |
| 21:07.58 | herlo | ~lart Lars-UT |
| 21:07.58 | ibot | whacks Lars-UT with the cluebat |
| 21:08.11 | TimRiker | heh: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OLPC_XO-1 read the different flash size statements. 128M, er no, 258M hmm. guess not, 1G yeah, that's it. |
| 21:08.31 | ^Migs^ | http://dissfunktional.files.wordpress.com/2007/12/detention-for-using-firefox.png |
| 21:08.43 | levi | tensai: I think the XO laptop would make a great book reader. |
| 21:08.47 | findlay | ^Migs^: already got that one |
| 21:09.18 | findlay | worth another URL though :) |
| 21:09.28 | tensai | levi: it might. but that's not something I do a whole lot of (read digital text). |
| 21:09.34 | ^Migs^ | well nm then |
| 21:09.52 | levi | tensai: You might, if you had a high-res daylight-readable LCD. :) |
| 21:10.16 | TimRiker | levi: try again. the display sux. |
| 21:11.09 | TimRiker | disclaimer: I played with the pre-production display. it may have improved a little since then. |
| 21:11.12 | levi | TimRiker: I've heard glowing reviews of it, but I don't recall if they were people who actually had one or were just going on specs. |
| 21:11.24 | TimRiker | it'll never match something like a nokia n800 though. |
| 21:11.41 | levi | Did you use it in both modes? What sucked about the display in grayscale mode? |
| 21:12.03 | TimRiker | oh, the _specs_ are nice and all. but the dual mode mono/color makes for a poor bw and a poor color display imho. |
| 21:12.06 | unum | I saw pictures of it on groklaw. text looked fine under a bright light |
| 21:12.35 | TimRiker | i found both modes to be fuzzy and hard to read for long periods of time. |
| 21:12.48 | levi | Hmm. Oh well. |
| 21:13.10 | Kemotaha | herlo: it was 40 mintues before you responded :) |
| 21:14.40 | levi | TimRiker: I want an iRex iLiad. |
| 21:18.31 | tensai | apparently the e-ink readers are really easy on the eyes, but that won't work for a computer |
| 21:18.52 | findlay | tensai: levi said that they have slow refresh too |
| 21:18.55 | tensai | and I don't want to lug around 10 devices, each dedicated to one thing |
| 21:19.14 | tensai | findlay: they do. but how often do you turn the page? for a book reader, it makes sense. |
| 21:19.29 | *** join/#utah bbeattie (n=media@65.48.77.206) |
| 21:19.37 | tensai | I'm waiting to see if any of the Android phones turn out to be decent |
| 21:19.53 | tensai | TimRiker: any inside knowledge about Android? |
| 21:20.36 | findlay | yeah, TimRiker, unload all your device knowledge :) |
| 21:25.42 | TimRiker | tensai: I've got the SDK installed and played with it a bit. |
| 21:26.09 | levi | Hmm, iRiver has a prototype eInk reader that folds open like a book. |
| 21:26.14 | TimRiker | not yet tried hacking the filesystem to see if I can run linux native apps instead of the java hampered versions. |
| 21:27.43 | Lars-UT | herlo: 46 min 25 sec - I was a bit off |
| 21:27.51 | TimRiker | tensai: none of that counts as inside information though. there is at least one android developer on freenode, but he's not saying much. |
| 21:28.02 | levi | HP has an interesting prototype, too. |
| 21:30.00 | levi | It may be LCD-based, though. |
| 21:32.18 | herlo | Lars-UT: haha |
| 21:32.31 | sjansen | "Studies have shown that IPv6 will result in at least 1000 IPv6 addresses per person." .... Uhm, shouldn't that be "simple math reveals"? Who needs to do a "study" to get that result? |
| 21:32.35 | herlo | Kemotaha: lunch |
| 21:32.47 | herlo | sjansen: nice one... |
| 21:33.08 | Kemotaha | herlo: what about lunch? |
| 21:33.19 | herlo | Kemotaha: that's why it took 46 minutes |
| 21:33.28 | Lars-UT | ah |
| 21:33.39 | herlo | Lars-UT: how goes it? |
| 21:33.42 | Kemotaha | so your buying me lunch then? |
| 21:33.47 | herlo | Kemotaha: not a chance |
| 21:34.11 | Kemotaha | if you won a million bucks would you buy me lunch? |
| 21:34.15 | herlo | sure |
| 21:34.24 | Kemotaha | so there is a chance then |
| 21:34.40 | Lars-UT | on a phone call |
| 21:35.23 | sjansen | TimRiker: Was that before or after they modified render code to match an XO style screen instead of a standard RGB LCD? |
| 21:35.37 | herlo | Lars-UT: wanna do lunch on Thursday in Sandy at the Philadelphian? |
| 21:38.01 | TimRiker | sjansen: not sure. it was in july. perhaps they have updated the code since then. |
| 21:38.35 | sjansen | I'm trying to find the blog announcement that talked about it to get a timeline. |
| 21:43.25 | Lars-UT | herlo: yes! |
| 21:43.34 | undertakingyou | TimRiker: have you ever eaten there? |
| 21:44.20 | Lars-UT | no - I just saw 'Phil' & thought cheesesteak, baby! |
| 21:44.33 | undertakingyou | Lars-UT: It really is tasty |
| 21:45.17 | sjansen | http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20071217142920618 |
| 21:48.55 | TimRiker | undertakingyou: nope. |
| 21:50.12 | herlo | Lars-UT: cool! |
| 21:50.13 | tristanbob | how can I test if a DNS server allows zone-transfers? |
| 21:50.28 | herlo | Lars-UT: if you don't know where it is, I'll be making an announcement later today about it... |
| 21:54.20 | tristanbob | "You can also use the nslookup command with the -ls option to simulate and test a zone transfer, while observing the data returned in a terminates before full transfer of the zone is complete." |
| 21:54.38 | Lars-UT | herlo: I just donated some cookies to Citysearch to read a couple of reviews - sounds like an arterial joy. |
| 21:54.48 | undertakingyou | TimRiker: It is really good. You should come to the geek lunch that is going on Thursdaye |
| 21:54.49 | levi | Bryan Sant is showing signs of smorrey syndrome. |
| 21:54.57 | sjansen | http://www.6diss.org/e-learning/ |
| 21:57.45 | sjansen | Be sure to click the more info buttons. There's some interesting details hiding in them. |
| 21:58.59 | herlo | Lars-UT: its an amazing place! |
| 21:59.23 | herlo | best cheesesteaks this side of anywhere (except maybe Philly itself) |
| 22:00.34 | Lars-UT | herlo: jsmith said they're best when served 'out of the back of a truck' |
| 22:00.48 | herlo | Lars-UT: yeah, I can agree with that |
| 22:01.00 | Lars-UT | what does that mean? |
| 22:01.17 | herlo | Lars-UT: this place feels like its the back of a truck...really greasy and yummy |
| 22:01.20 | TimRiker | undertakingyou: I'm downtown on thursdays. :/ |
| 22:01.30 | herlo | Lars-UT: I was agreeing with jsmith previously |
| 22:01.53 | Lars-UT | herlo: sounds perfect. |
| 22:02.11 | TimRiker | tristanbob: use "host -t AXFR <domain>" from someplace that's not a trusted slave. |
| 22:02.26 | sontek | Philadelphian has great food, but its a little nasty inside |
| 22:02.32 | tristanbob | TimRiker, excellent! I will try that |
| 22:02.38 | herlo | sontek: back of truck reference :) |
| 22:02.50 | Lars-UT | oh yeah I better get this over with - I've been keeping a low profile of late - wouldn't want to stay off the radar... |
| 22:02.52 | Lars-UT | ~echelon fodder |
| 22:02.53 | ibot | somebody said echelon fodder was Bush, Uranium, Dirty Bomb, Jihad, Allah Akbar, TNT, Rent a van, assassination , NSA, wiretaps, sleeper cell, suicide bomb, vest, Oklahoma City, Waco, revenge, anthrax, virgins, fuse, great celebration, July 4th, detcord, martyr, timer, backpack, subway |
| 22:03.02 | Lars-UT | that's better. |
| 22:03.07 | TimRiker | tristanbob: nslookup is the old way of doing the same. newer nslookup's don't support the -ls from what I've seen. |
| 22:03.55 | TimRiker | Lars-UT: great, now you'll get ibot arrested. |
| 22:04.00 | Lars-UT | again? |
| 22:04.04 | TimRiker | heh |
| 22:04.42 | Lars-UT | TimRiker: that factoid's pretty old |
| 22:04.58 | herlo | tristanbob: use friocorte.com :) - goozbach will love you |
| 22:04.58 | Lars-UT | probably been filtered by now. |
| 22:05.02 | herlo | Lars-UT: probably |
| 22:05.07 | levi | Heh, this is awesome: http://localoaf.org/2007/12/13/wi-fi-divining-rod/ |
| 22:05.13 | brac | [Engineering Magic: the Wi-Fi Divining Rod at Localoaf - Information: It’s the Magic] |
| 22:05.13 | sjansen | tristanbob: I think "host -al" is easier to remember than "dig AXFR", although anyone responsible for a DNS server really should spend some quality time with the dig man page. |
| 22:05.27 | herlo | dig +trace rocks! |
| 22:05.47 | herlo | dig +trace sjansen.crazyman.com |
| 22:05.55 | sontek | if its not in ip, I don't want it! |
| 22:06.07 | Lars-UT | herlo: ok, that _is_ pretty cool. |
| 22:06.19 | tristanbob | sjansen, didn't see that option in dig man page |
| 22:06.49 | tristanbob | herlo, use that website how? |
| 22:07.37 | Lars-UT | response time & DNS in one command methinks |
| 22:07.38 | sjansen | host -al friocorte.com ns1.friocorte.com |
| 22:07.57 | herlo | Lars-UT: btw, jan 19 will be the beginning of utosf saturday trainings |
| 22:08.12 | herlo | 2x a month, still working on details |
| 22:08.19 | herlo | tristanbob: with dig axfr |
| 22:08.21 | sjansen | Actually, that's TTL, not response time. |
| 22:09.25 | sjansen | goozbach: Owns friocorte.com and is nice enough to provide zone transfer data that can be used why attackers find them useful. |
| 22:09.42 | sjansen | s/goozbach: Owns/goozbach owns/ |
| 22:09.54 | tristanbob | good I can test my zone transfer skills now |
| 22:09.58 | Lars-UT | sjansen: correct. |
| 22:10.25 | findlay | ~test |
| 22:10.25 | ibot | Test Failed! |
| 22:10.39 | brac | [mobiBLU] |
| 22:10.57 | Shadowwire | ~test findlay |
| 22:10.58 | ibot | Testing findlay... ROM BASIC NOT FOUND$#$ |
| 22:12.06 | Lars-UT | findlay: you might need this: http://myoldmac.net/FAQ/Apple-II_Peek_Poke_Call.html |
| 22:12.13 | brac | [myoldmac.net - Apple II Peek and Poke List] |
| 22:12.25 | tristanbob | thanks goozbach for allowing me to learn DNS betterz |
| 22:14.50 | findlay | yay? |
| 22:19.26 | TimRiker | heh how 'bout this one? http://www.gm-tek.com/product_view.php?id=193&mode=18 |
| 22:19.32 | brac | [GoodMan Corporation] |
| 22:20.56 | tristanbob | how well does A-record load-balancing work? |
| 22:21.29 | tristanbob | does the DNS server send all A-records to the host that sent the query? or just one of the records? |
| 22:23.00 | tensai | tristanbob: the application calls gethostbyname() which returns a single IP address. the client will then use that IP until it calls gethostbyname() again. |
| 22:23.40 | tristanbob | so the client will use that IP until the local DNS cache expires? (linux does not have a cache, but firefox does) |
| 22:23.44 | tensai | the order the records are returned in is server-specific. bind cycles through them |
| 22:23.48 | tristanbob | and windows has a cache) |
| 22:23.57 | tensai | no. the client will use them until it looks up the name again. |
| 22:24.43 | tristanbob | but linux does not cache DNS results, so won't it have to look it up each time? or does it remember the answer somehow |
| 22:25.14 | tensai | the application can do whatever it wants. typically applications are not aware of DNS TTLs. |
| 22:25.46 | tensai | let's say you've got a connection open to a web server. you'll keep that connection open until you're done with it. half way through a transfer, you won't look up the name again. |
| 22:25.47 | tristanbob | next question, what happens when one of the hosts is down? how does the application (say firefox) know to ask for a new A record? |
| 22:25.56 | findlay | all right |
| 22:25.59 | tristanbob | tensai, I see |
| 22:26.25 | tensai | ~whip findlay's IT operation |
| 22:26.25 | ibot | ACTION takes findlay's IT operation outside to be thoroughly whipped by tensai |
| 22:27.07 | tensai | tristanbob: well, gethostbyname (which is what most applications use) only returns a single response, so the client may not know to try another host |
| 22:28.13 | tensai | tristanbob: http://www.isc.org/index.pl?/sw/bind/docs/bind-load-bal.php |
| 22:28.14 | tensai | http://homepages.tesco.net/J.deBoynePollard/FGA/dns-round-robin-is-useless.html |
| 22:28.16 | brac | [FGA: The uselessness of "Round Robin" resource record set shuffling] |
| 22:28.38 | findlay | and besides, robins aren't round |
| 22:28.42 | tensai | http://tenereillo.com./GSLBPageOfShame.htm |
| 22:28.52 | findlay | they're aerodynamic-shaped |
| 22:29.05 | tensai | findlay: I think officially they are "robin" shaped |
| 22:29.14 | findlay | that's it |
| 22:29.23 | tensai | ~shape findlay |
| 22:29.24 | Lars-UT | TimRiker: I like that - reminds me of a manipulative puzzle |
| 22:29.32 | levi | "robin robin" would be a dumb name for a scheduling policy, though. |
| 22:30.11 | findlay | hence the preference for round robins |
| 22:30.59 | Lars-UT | TimRiker: USB Squid Hub - I choose you! http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/accessories/93ad/ |
| 22:31.02 | brac | [ThinkGeek :: USB Squid] |
| 22:31.05 | tensai | apparently it comes from a french term meaning "round ribbon" |
| 22:31.46 | jsmith | tensai: Do physicists assume they're spherical? |
| 22:32.07 | findlay | basically |
| 22:32.08 | tensai | they signed their names on a loop so that the first signatory couldn't be identified as the ring leader |
| 22:32.18 | findlay | heh |
| 22:33.22 | tristanbob | thanks for the info tensai |
| 22:33.32 | *** join/#utah Lakshmi (n=Lakshmi@66-240-25-49.isp.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 22:34.24 | tensai | tristanbob: np. I set up a mail cluster using various means and dns round robin turns out to not be the perfect solution that you might hope. |
| 22:34.44 | tristanbob | MX records work better, right? |
| 22:35.02 | tristanbob | they support load-balancing, I thought |
| 22:35.04 | tensai | we've also noticed that quite a few mail clients will not under any circumstances re-read DNS until they are restarted. it's pathetic really. |
| 22:35.27 | tensai | tristanbob: MXes work great for SMTP, but we were also clustering pop/imap/web |
| 22:35.31 | tristanbob | are you talking about SMTP (MX records work great) |
| 22:35.37 | tristanbob | yes, that is what I thought |
| 22:35.54 | tristanbob | so you ended up using a load-balancer? |
| 22:36.00 | tensai | mxes work so well because the mail clients know enough about dns to pull out multiple records and such. most applications don't do that. |
| 22:36.24 | tensai | yes, we used a hardware load balancer. a founder serveriron xl, to be specific. |
| 22:36.40 | sjansen | tristanbob: My experience with DNS round robin was bad. I refuse to call it load balancing. It's not. Load sharing maybe. Fragile load sharing would be a better name. |
| 22:38.02 | tensai | yes, what sjansen says. to quote the bind page I referenced, "if 1 of 4 servers dies, 25% of the connections will fail." |
| 22:38.18 | Jayce^ | agreed also |
| 22:38.38 | levi | I also agree, since it seems to be the thing to do! |
| 22:38.50 | jsmith | "So let it be written! So let it be.... uh... decided!" |
| 22:39.59 | sjansen | Worse yet, instead of spreading load we saw it create lethal tidal waves of traffic. Unless ever machine answers requests in the same average amount of time, one machine falls behinds the others until it's so overwhelmed it dies, unleashing a tidal wave on another machine which dies in short order send another wave down the chain until every machine is down in the same short window. |
| 22:40.14 | levi | sjansen is the decider! |
| 22:40.31 | findlay | cool! |
| 22:40.46 | findlay | sounds like a plan to overtake the world! |
| 22:41.01 | sjansen | Friends don't let friends use DNS round robin. Don't be cheap, if you've really got enough traffic to require load balancing you should have enough revenue to afford real load balancing. |
| 22:41.01 | findlay | have you mentioned this to the producers of Pinky and the Brain yet? |
| 22:41.03 | Lars-UT | "Same thing we do every night, Pinky..." |
| 22:41.07 | Supaplex | I'm back. :) |
| 22:41.23 | Lars-UT | 2 secs too late |
| 22:41.26 | Supaplex | Lars-UT: I have their theme song as my ring-tone |
| 22:41.34 | Lars-UT | Supaplex: That's awesome |
| 22:42.39 | Lars-UT | Some other cartoon songs that are pretty cool: Johnny Quest, The Jetsons, 3 Is a Magic Number(from Schoolhouse Rock), Ren & Stimpy theme... |
| 22:43.04 | Lars-UT | jsmith would agree with that last one. |
| 22:43.17 | Jayce^ | it's lo-og.. |
| 22:43.18 | *** join/#utah wps (n=wps@64.0.192.53) |
| 22:43.47 | findlay | gives you time to fumble for your phone, hten |
| 22:43.48 | Lars-UT | Jayce^: 'tis, but you're gonna pick up or send 'em to voice mail within seconds anyway. |
| 22:43.54 | jsmith | Lars-UT: Ren & Stimpy rocks... but A-team, Smurfs, and Simpsons usually find their way to my phone first |
| 22:43.55 | findlay | s/ht/th/ |
| 22:44.04 | sjansen | Look, it's Powdered Toast Man!!! |
| 22:44.09 | Lars-UT | yes! |
| 22:44.19 | Supaplex | and there's always "The Log" song for hold music ;) |
| 22:44.24 | Lars-UT | lol |
| 22:44.36 | sjansen | It's better than bad, it's good. |
| 22:44.59 | Supaplex | it rolls down stairs |
| 22:45.33 | Lars-UT | http://www.redbrick.dcu.ie/~fatwa/ren/songs.html#log |
| 22:45.39 | *** join/#utah pjw (n=pjw@me00f36d0.tmodns.net) |
| 22:45.52 | sjansen | tensai: Just noticed the hostname in your GSLB link.... Show off. |
| 22:46.28 | tensai | sjansen: huh? |
| 22:47.01 | Lars-UT | tensai: wife just translated you nick for me |
| 22:47.05 | Lars-UT | s/you/your |
| 22:47.10 | tensai | Lars-UT: :) |
| 22:49.05 | findlay | do you guys recommend keeping config files in a vcs? |
| 22:49.18 | findlay | if so, how do you do it? What experience do you have? |
| 22:49.25 | jsmith | findlay: Definitely... |
| 22:50.01 | findlay | do you drop whole /etc dirs with all their garbage, ro pick the stuff you have customized? |
| 22:50.36 | Lars-UT | jsmith: tell me of your docbook, Usul |
| 22:51.03 | jsmith | Lars-UT: Whatcha wanna know about DocBook? |
| 22:51.14 | Lars-UT | what you've been doing with it |
| 22:51.15 | findlay | when it comes for you? |
| 22:51.59 | herlo | Lars-UT: http://fedora-tutorials.com - very entertaining |
| 22:52.07 | jsmith | Lars-UT: Setting up an automated system, so that when people check in new changes into Subversion, the XML gets validated and verified and then new versions of the docs get built -- new HTML, chunked HTML, and PDF versions |
| 22:52.33 | findlay | using svn hooks or something? |
| 22:52.37 | herlo | jsmith: what are you building that for? |
| 22:52.43 | jsmith | findlay: Exactly |
| 22:52.53 | jsmith | herlo: For some documentation at work |
| 22:52.59 | findlay | yay, I got one right :) |
| 22:54.01 | Lars-UT | jsmith: link? |
| 22:54.39 | herlo | jsmith: sounds like interesting stuff. I wish I knew more about DocBook |
| 22:55.10 | Supaplex | docbook for dummies, now on amazon ;) |
| 22:55.24 | jsmith | Lars-UT: The only links are internal :-( |
| 22:55.30 | Lars-UT | dang |
| 22:55.34 | jsmith | herlo: You'll learn more in Raleigh |
| 22:57.13 | jsmith | Supaplex: DocBook, the Definitive Guide -- free online at docbook.rog |
| 22:57.16 | jsmith | s/rog/org/ |
| 22:57.56 | Supaplex | kewl. bbiaf - gotta raid my local savers. >:) |
| 22:58.49 | Lars-UT | suggestion needed: I want to use gmail within firefox, yet I do not wish my google searches to be customized when I search in another tab - CustomizeGoogle extension doesn't seem to do the trick |
| 22:59.45 | herlo | jsmith: cool |
| 23:00.05 | Lars-UT | http://docbook.org/tdg5/ |
| 23:00.33 | Lars-UT | no herlo, that's another story. "The important thing here is..." |
| 23:00.36 | jsmith | herlo: My favorite TLD is ".internal" |
| 23:00.44 | findlay | heh |
| 23:00.45 | herlo | jsmith: I know |
| 23:00.56 | findlay | there should be a .findlay TLD |
| 23:00.59 | herlo | jsmith: so is Erich Pletsch's from TierFour |
| 23:01.07 | jsmith | herlo: Uh, yeah... |
| 23:01.08 | findlay | then I could take over the world |
| 23:03.48 | Lars-UT | Anybody looked at this MIT courseware yet? http://ocw.mit.edu/OcwWeb/web/home/home/index.htm |
| 23:03.53 | tensai | findlay: you can define any TLD you want, as long as you run your own DNS server |
| 23:03.55 | brac | [Free Online Course Materials | MIT OpenCourseWare] |
| 23:04.00 | herlo | jsmith: interestingly enough, all of the .rog sites look the same - http://www.herlo.org/misc/docbook.rog.png |
| 23:04.25 | levi | Heh, somehow I knew Brian Sant wouldn't believe me about the garbage collection space needs. |
| 23:04.31 | Lars-UT | lol |
| 23:04.32 | findlay | tensai: interesting |
| 23:04.56 | levi | But, it was my fault for being too lazy to look up the reference to the paper I cited in the first place. |
| 23:05.40 | Lars-UT | s/haveing/having |
| 23:05.47 | Lars-UT | that hurt my eyes. |
| 23:05.58 | jsmith | Lars-UT: If we didn't know him better, we'd be worried about those tabs in his browser with the title of "Sexy" |
| 23:06.16 | Lars-UT | jsmith: I don't follow... |
| 23:06.39 | jsmith | Lars-UT: Look at that link he sent me.... http://www.herlo.org/misc/docbook.rog.png |
| 23:06.49 | jsmith | Lars-UT: Then look at the tabs in his browser |
| 23:07.22 | sjansen | tensai: http://tenereillo.com./GSLBPageOfShame.htm (note the extra dot at the end, so apropos in a DNS discussion) |
| 23:07.37 | Lars-UT | I know. I did. That's why led me to mention it in the first place. And now he has more traffic as a result because ibot is logging this. All a big circle. |
| 23:07.54 | Lars-UT | s/why/what |
| 23:07.57 | findlay | ha |
| 23:09.26 | tristanbob | what is a good syslog server + interface for multiple devices? |
| 23:09.41 | sjansen | tristanbob: huh? |
| 23:10.08 | tristanbob | syslog server + GUI, that receives messages from multiple devices |
| 23:10.23 | tristanbob | looking for one of those... yah |
| 23:10.23 | findlay | nachos |
| 23:10.31 | findlay | nagiochos |
| 23:10.35 | findlay | with cheese |
| 23:10.40 | Lars-UT | findlay: Did you see this 'String Ducky'? http://discovermagazine.com/twominutesorless |
| 23:10.44 | tristanbob | splunk looks nice, but free version is 500 MB/day limit |
| 23:10.47 | herlo | jsmith: Lars-UT: you guys have so much fun in here, its a wonder you're hardly here... |
| 23:11.09 | jsmith | herlo: I'm usually here, when I'm not teaching... I'm usually just lurking |
| 23:11.13 | tristanbob | findlay, "Your search - nagiochos - did not match any documents. " |
| 23:11.22 | herlo | jsmith: hehe, yeah, sure |
| 23:11.28 | tristanbob | better make a wikipedia entry for that |
| 23:11.41 | findlay | tristanbob: nagios |
| 23:11.41 | Lars-UT | chupacabra nachios |
| 23:11.56 | herlo | chupacabra! ahhhhHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! |
| 23:11.57 | tristanbob | nagios has a syslog interface? |
| 23:12.29 | findlay | don't know. Just brainstorming |
| 23:13.21 | Lars-UT | s/findlay/Thor |
| 23:13.36 | sjansen | zenoss is becoming popular as a nagios replacement. |
| 23:14.11 | Lars-UT | zenoss - not just a misspelled prophet... |
| 23:16.56 | macnewbold | hehe |
| 23:17.58 | levi | Heh, I thought of Zeno, not Zenos. |
| 23:17.58 | tensai | tristanbob: I've heard good things about metalog, but haven't really done much with it |
| 23:18.11 | levi | Zeno of Zeno's Paradox fame. |
| 23:18.26 | Lars-UT | Zork? |
| 23:18.45 | findlay | Kroz |
| 23:18.54 | Lars-UT | racecar |
| 23:19.00 | sjansen | http://aplawrence.com/Unixart/rsyslog_php_syslog_ng.html <-- SUSE uses syslog-ng, F8 >= uses rsyslogd |
| 23:19.22 | Tene | BUT WHICH IS BETTER?!?! |
| 23:19.36 | tensai | Tene: yes. Which is better. |
| 23:19.40 | levi | Zeno was an ancient Greek philosopher. |
| 23:19.42 | tensai | I like Which |
| 23:20.21 | sjansen | Who cares? Good ole' syslog is easy to ignore, that's all I care about. |
| 23:20.31 | sjansen | Wake me when my servers or on fire... or better, don't. |
| 23:20.40 | tristanbob | sjansen, I do like zenoss (but not a syslog server) |
| 23:20.47 | Tene | I've been reading Higher Order Perl again lately. |
| 23:21.01 | Tene | Lots of fun stuff in there. |
| 23:21.28 | Lars-UT | Has anybody here used 'Scratch' to have their kids learn programming? |
| 23:21.30 | Tene | Shame the author bailed on his promise to post the entire book to a wiki online. |
| 23:21.55 | levi | That is too bad. |
| 23:22.20 | tristanbob | crap google is capturing me again! second time today |
| 23:22.26 | levi | But The Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs is online, and it's plenty mind-expanding in a higher-order-function kind of way. |
| 23:22.47 | Tene | Yep. SICP is fun. |
| 23:23.02 | herlo | Lars-UT: squeak |
| 23:23.06 | tristanbob | perhaps I am searching too often |
| 23:23.16 | findlay | Lars-UT: I'm sure there's lots of graphical OSS programming environments |
| 23:23.36 | findlay | like squeak |
| 23:24.20 | Lars-UT | so nobody has Guinea-pigged their progeny with it, then. |
| 23:24.34 | levi | Scratch is based on Squeak, isn't it? |
| 23:24.56 | tensai | Lars-UT: mine aren't really that old yet |
| 23:24.58 | levi | Squeak comes with e-toys, which is also a kids' programming environment. |
| 23:25.05 | findlay | if I had progeny, I'd start them out with the basics: modal logic, formalism, set theory, etc. |
| 23:25.12 | levi | There's also a curriculum you can get that has been used in schools. |
| 23:25.45 | herlo | http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Squeak |
| 23:25.47 | levi | findlay: I don't think young kids start out with the capacity for that kind of thinking. |
| 23:26.12 | herlo | Lars-UT: squeak comes with the onelaptop.org |
| 23:26.12 | levi | It takes a bit of time for the brain development necessary to support it. |
| 23:26.14 | herlo | olpc |
| 23:26.36 | findlay | "That's great. Now let's see if you can count to two." "{}, {{}}, {{{}} {{{}} {{{}}}}}." "Excellent." |
| 23:26.38 | tensai | findlay: yeah. first step really should be linear algebra. |
| 23:26.59 | levi | Lars-UT: I've considered using Squeak for my kids, but I haven't got kids old enough yet. :) |
| 23:27.28 | herlo | findlay: you failed |
| 23:27.40 | herlo | too many braces ! :) |
| 23:27.47 | Lars-UT | levi: Mine are old enough, and I was thinking Logo, but I just heard about Scratch.... looking at Squeak link... |
| 23:28.39 | levi | Lars-UT: See squeakers.org, too. |
| 23:28.51 | Lars-UT | 'Scratch is a scripting environment for children being developed at MIT which is built on top of Squeak: http://weblogs.media.mit.edu/llk/scratch/' |
| 23:28.54 | findlay | sorry, this is two: {}, {{}}, {{{}} {{{}}}} |
| 23:29.00 | herlo | Lars-UT: KLogo rocks! |
| 23:29.13 | herlo | I used to help Shaun build little pictures with it |
| 23:29.35 | findlay | well, there's the whole KDE set of children's toys |
| 23:31.06 | Lars-UT | findlay: That's not marzipan-coated, it's a Lil' Debbie snack |
| 23:31.08 | findlay | so, that's why people get married. You need another excuse for making cakes! |
| 23:31.41 | tensai | findlay: and how do you teach cakes to program? |
| 23:31.45 | findlay | I'd get married every day for a new cake |
| 23:33.12 | Lars-UT | I need a VM to run squeak? I'd rather run WINE already |
| 23:33.32 | herlo | Lars-UT: I don't think you need a vm |
| 23:33.53 | herlo | findlay: that's not *why* you'd get married. |
| 23:34.05 | herlo | findlay: its so you could have someone decorate your car! |
| 23:34.09 | findlay | cakes are lasagna-code like. Very structured, but layered |
| 23:34.10 | Lars-UT | 'sudo apt-get install squeak' |
| 23:35.20 | findlay | my car's due for another retheme |
| 23:40.21 | findlay | and then I'll paint mine gentoo purple |
| 23:41.36 | mrpull | hey... what happened to http://www.funroll-loops.org/? I was looking for that gentoo purple import with all the fins. |
| 23:42.11 | levi | Some gentoo user must have hacked it. :P |
| 23:43.12 | mrpull | I guess the .info version still has the same stuff. |
| 23:43.20 | mrpull | http://funroll-loops.info/van.jpg |
| 23:43.36 | findlay | nice |
| 23:47.47 | levi | Programming languages, especially niche ones, are some of the few things I rarely install with a package manager. |
| 23:49.29 | Lars-UT | levi: good point. |
| 23:49.50 | findlay | do you install them into a niche? |
| 23:50.20 | levi | Lars-UT: If you get into using Squeak, you'll probably end up learning quite a bit about the image and source files. |
| 23:51.13 | levi | Lars-UT: Important tip: save your image fairly frequently. It's possible to fix hosed images, because Squeak has an internal changelog, but it's easier to just keep backups of pristine images. |
| 23:51.52 | Lars-UT | I've got the original .gz in ~/squeak |
| 23:51.54 | levi | Lars-UT: There's also a built-in source control system called Monticello. |
| 23:52.33 | findlay | ~date |
| 23:52.34 | ibot | It is now 2007.12.17 23:52:34 GMT |
| 23:53.23 | *** join/#utah pjw (n=pjw@72.8.78.198) |
| 23:54.40 | Lars-UT | levi: Thanks for the start, levi. I'm gonna go take my kids out to spread a flu virus we've been mutating at home. They've been trapped in the house since Thursday. I'll come back to Squeak again soon. |
| 23:55.10 | levi | Let me know if you have any questions. I'm by no means a Squeak expert, but I did write a couple of little programs in it. |
