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| 00:55.07 | vontrapp | how do you change the display language in vista_ |
| 00:55.10 | vontrapp | ? |
| 00:56.26 | vontrapp | i looked in the control panel and all i could find was locale and format stuff |
| 00:56.30 | vontrapp | no transations |
| 00:57.09 | vontrapp | translations |
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| 01:11.04 | findlay | that'll cost ya |
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| 01:25.13 | findlay | cakecheese |
| 01:25.40 | Tene | -chat findlay cheesecake |
| 01:25.41 | brac | findlay cheesecake |
| 02:01.25 | Tene | So, I've got some code I've been working on that has some badly broken abstractions. |
| 02:01.47 | Tene | Seems my development process currently involves "break the abstraction now to make it work, and clean up later" |
| 02:02.20 | Tene | Anyone have any comments on the importance of maintaining proper abstraction compared to cleaning it up whenever the breaks get in the way or I get around to it? |
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| 03:29.12 | elg | tensai: ping |
| 03:30.43 | linuxalien | dong! |
| 03:44.21 | elg | any DSL gurus here? |
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| 03:46.36 | elg | any DSL gurus here? |
| 03:49.05 | nick125 | I sometimes play one on the Internet. I can try to help :p |
| 03:53.53 | elg | my grandparents have mstar (gag) |
| 03:54.16 | elg | they have this wacky DSL modem (D-Link 2640B) |
| 03:54.53 | elg | they have a static IP. They had it configured in bridging mode with the PC behind it using the static IP |
| 03:56.21 | elg | now, they want to use the modem as a router instead (so they can have wireless clients, and uh, not have a windows pc bare on the internet) |
| 03:56.51 | elg | but it's not working. the options are pppoa pppoe IPoA and bridging |
| 03:57.50 | elg | there's VC/MUX and LLC/SNAP for encapsulation mode |
| 03:58.38 | elg | there's VPI and VCI. there's tests and the ATM OAM F5 segment ping and end-to-end ping fail, but ping gateway doesn't, however one can't ping the gateway from one of the PCs behind it |
| 03:59.01 | elg | All this DSL and ATM terminology has me lost, and the mstar guys are completely lost too and they just punt and say they don't support that modem |
| 03:59.28 | elg | but the modem can work, in bridging mode at least. so it's gotta be a config issue |
| 03:59.57 | nick125 | Hmm.. |
| 04:00.05 | nick125 | What telco? |
| 04:00.11 | nick125 | Qwest? |
| 04:00.17 | elg | qwest, i'm sure |
| 04:01.07 | nick125 | Qwest ISPs usually use PPPoA VC/MUX with the VPI/VCI of 0/32. |
| 04:01.43 | elg | but how would that work with a static IP? |
| 04:01.50 | elg | pppoa would negotiate an IP, no? |
| 04:02.15 | nick125 | Try telling the modem to pull a DHCP IP address, some ISPs have it setup when you send a DHCP request, it will return the static IP. |
| 04:02.31 | nick125 | Also, PPPoA is a transport protocol and *shouldn't* have anything to do with the IP. |
| 04:02.47 | nick125 | (well, PPP over ATM. But you can still use static IPs over it) |
| 04:03.05 | elg | hm, interesting. but then how would bridging work? |
| 04:03.16 | elg | btw, the internet light turns on |
| 04:03.18 | elg | solid |
| 04:03.23 | elg | so some kind of connectioning is happening |
| 04:03.39 | nick125 | Why would you be doing bridging if you were using the modem as the router? |
| 04:03.58 | elg | don't want to do bridging, but that's how it was set up and working up til now |
| 04:04.03 | nick125 | Bridging implies that the PC (or whatever) connected to the modem will do the authentication. |
| 04:04.07 | elg | right |
| 04:04.15 | elg | and it didn't do squat. it just had a static IP |
| 04:04.19 | elg | windows PC |
| 04:04.23 | nick125 | Half-bridging does the authentication on the modem, and hands the IP and such to the PC. |
| 04:04.52 | elg | hmm, could be perhaps that it was doing something like that |
| 04:05.17 | elg | that would make more sense, but I'm not sure mstar *has* to make sense |
| 04:05.28 | nick125 | Maybe you need the setup NAT and a DHCP server on the modem? |
| 04:05.30 | nick125 | hah. |
| 04:05.54 | elg | nah, von knows that much |
| 04:06.13 | elg | he's trying to ping the gateway IP that the windows computer was configured from. he's got the wireless and everything set up |
| 04:06.19 | elg | and NAT I'm sure |
| 04:07.37 | nick125 | What you could try is grab the PPPoA authentication information, and reset the modem (wipe it to default config) then reconfigure the PPPoA authentication, encapusulation, and VPI/VCI. |
| 04:07.54 | nick125 | (it couldn't hurt to try, since it seems you've tried everything else) |
| 04:08.15 | elg | yeah. i'll have him try pppoa |
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| 04:08.29 | nick125 | 99% of Qwest-based ISPs use PPPoA. |
| 04:08.48 | nick125 | The other 1% use either PPPoE or bridging. |
| 04:09.07 | nick125 | Some support both PPPoA and PPPoE (like Qwest.net). |
| 04:09.22 | elg | i had pppoe from my linux box over bridging with xmission. they had to flip some bits on their end to set it up though |
| 04:10.02 | nick125 | Yeah. |
| 04:10.17 | nick125 | The only good thing about PPPoE is that you can do it other ethernet ;-) |
| 04:10.51 | nick125 | Most ISPs use PPPoA mainly because it requires less setup (no mucking around with the MTU). But it doesn't have wide support in the US (Qwest is the only place using it, I believe) |
| 04:11.05 | nick125 | s/Most ISPs/Most Qwest-based ISPs/ |
| 04:12.09 | elg | what do other telcos use? |
| 04:12.28 | nick125 | PPPoE or bridging. |
| 04:12.58 | nick125 | (Most use PPPoE, while a few odd bunches use bridging) |
| 04:14.43 | nick125 | PPPoA has much wider support across the pond. |
| 04:21.03 | elg | thanks, now if I can just get him on the phone again |
| 04:21.40 | nick125 | How was his PC connected to the modem in bridging? |
| 04:22.33 | elg | we don't know |
| 04:22.47 | elg | he didn't extract the info from the modem before mucking with it |
| 04:23.09 | elg | and when I was trying to help my aunt set it up when they first got the modem, we never got it working. she must have finally got someone at mstar (or dlink) that hit the right combo |
| 04:23.40 | nick125 | hrm. |
| 04:23.41 | elg | he's tried setting it back to bridging, but it won't work. so there's some secret recipe. it might be the ppoa thing |
| 04:23.47 | elg | half bridging, as you said |
| 04:27.46 | nick125 | Well, that's surely getting annoying. |
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| 04:43.07 | tensai | elg: pong |
| 04:45.15 | elg | tensai: see above |
| 04:45.26 | tensai | elg: I saw |
| 04:45.33 | tensai | is it still broke? |
| 04:45.36 | elg | afaik |
| 04:45.41 | elg | he won't asnwer his phone |
| 04:45.54 | elg | which might mean anything, but perhaps most likely that he's on the phone with mstar |
| 04:45.57 | tensai | pppoa, vc/mux, 0/32 just like nick125 said |
| 04:46.25 | tensai | I've never set up a modem in bridging mode so I don't know how that works. we tried it but couldn't get it to work. |
| 04:46.55 | tensai | now, the static IP bit can be sticky. it often causes problems for us. |
| 04:47.33 | tensai | ppp negotiates the IP address. one side or the other has to know the IP address. when you're configured as dynamic, the ISP's router knows it (from a pool). |
| 04:48.01 | tensai | in our setup at least, with static the router expects the modem to know the IP. so you have to have it set in the modem. |
| 04:48.31 | tensai | if it is not then what we see in our radius logs is a rapid succession of successful logins (every 6 seconds) |
| 04:48.31 | elg | i'm pretty sure that's how mstar works too |
| 04:49.18 | tensai | in theory it would be possible to have the router hand back an IP address for a static connection too, but with cisco routers it's easier to ask the modem to do it |
| 04:50.04 | tensai | it would be a lot easier for me to troubleshoot if I had access to their router :) |
| 04:53.58 | elg | me too :) |
| 04:54.12 | tensai | man, who peed in kornbluth's cheerios? |
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| 04:55.32 | tensai | I really like being my own ISP. it has some definite perks. |
| 05:00.53 | findlay | so ... you're perky? |
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| 05:06.03 | findlay | ~roar Lakshmi |
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| 05:11.32 | tensai | ~perk findlay |
| 05:11.32 | ibot | ACTION wraps findlay in paper and slowly pours hot water over him |
| 05:11.55 | Lakshmi | findlay i will roar |
| 05:11.57 | Lakshmi | but you know what |
| 05:12.10 | Lakshmi | i hate it when peple ruin weeks |
| 05:12.58 | Supaplex | I never met anyone named what. |
| 05:13.43 | tensai | what's on second |
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| 05:14.39 | Supaplex | but who's on first? |
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| 05:14.44 | tensai | right |
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| 06:08.06 | rsimpkins | Anyone on that works at Guru Labs? |
| 06:08.32 | Tene | Yes. |
| 06:08.34 | Tene | What's up? |
| 06:08.51 | rsimpkins | Guru Labs has been a sponsor for PLUG for quite a while - sort of defacto. |
| 06:09.02 | rsimpkins | I have no clue what the sponsorship is for though. |
| 06:09.15 | rsimpkins | I'm just curious if you guys are still wanting to be sponsors, etc. |
| 06:09.30 | Tene | Ahh. I'm definitely not the person to talk to. |
| 06:09.35 | Tene | All I do is teach classes. ;) |
| 06:09.41 | rsimpkins | Who should I e-mail? |
| 06:09.46 | rsimpkins | You can msg me. |
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| 06:38.51 | brac | [~ |
| 06:38.51 | brac | ~say Never give an inch! |
| 06:38.52 | ibot | Never give an inch! |
| 06:38.52 | brac | ~] |
| 06:43.02 | findlay | mmm, Sibelius! If the 4th symphony were food, I'd be fat |
| 06:43.18 | findlay | so good |
| 06:44.04 | findlay | so elusive and rare |
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| 06:57.25 | findlay | there have been disturbances in the network |
| 06:57.57 | findlay | the sith have converted Lakshmi |
| 07:06.02 | Supaplex | into what? |
| 07:12.17 | Lakshmi | something special |
| 07:13.44 | Supaplex | tell us about the short bus |
| 07:17.17 | Supaplex | jk :) |
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| 07:30.41 | sontek | Hey, I need a console ninja, to help me: svn status |grep -v '?' | cut -b 8-80 | sed -e 's/$/,/' |
| 07:30.44 | sontek | I have that so far |
| 07:30.59 | sontek | I now need to say 'replace last comma with :' |
| 07:31.03 | findlay | the intrepid christel hath been battling disturbances in the network. Obviously she means Lakshmi |
| 07:32.17 | Lakshmi | findlay |
| 07:32.22 | Lakshmi | seriously |
| 07:32.46 | findlay | indeed. Exactly my thoughts |
| 07:33.05 | Supaplex | haha |
| 08:09.12 | findlay | in a paragraph talking about wikipedia spinoffs: "Of course there’s the obviously conservative Conservapedia, for those who like their knowledge pre-biased." |
| 08:09.15 | findlay | hahaha |
| 08:10.29 | findlay | I think you can get the same kind of nutritionless political satisfaction by listening to Rush Limbach and his similar cohorts |
| 08:39.44 | Supaplex | ~tgif |
| 08:39.45 | ibot | tgif is, like, Thank Goodness It's Friday! or, some say it has something to do with a vector-based draw tool at http://bourbon.cs.umd.edu:8001/tgif/ |
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| 09:17.14 | Lakshmi | hi |
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| 09:22.53 | xbmodder_ | I hate power outages |
| 09:22.54 | xbmodder_ | Lakshmi, |
| 09:23.09 | Supaplex | her sith power has gone to her head. |
| 09:23.36 | xbmodder_ | haha |
| 09:23.41 | xbmodder_ | ~lart Supaplex |
| 09:23.41 | ibot | slaps Supaplex around with a large trout |
| 09:23.48 | xbmodder_ | I almost mistoke you for findlay |
| 09:23.55 | Supaplex | :D |
| 09:23.58 | xbmodder_ | Well, let's lart findlay anyways |
| 09:24.00 | xbmodder_ | ~lart findlay |
| 09:24.00 | ibot | plops findlay into a giant vat of herring |
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| 15:36.31 | elg | http://www.phdcomics.com/comics.php?f=948 |
| 15:36.33 | brac | [PHD Comics: Double the monitor, double the fun] |
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| 15:37.25 | timinator | at ease :) |
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| 16:27.48 | Jayce^ | "Is LISP a candidate for a scripting language? While you can certainly write things rapidly in it, I cannot in good conscience call LISP a scripting language. By policy, LISP has never really catered to mere mortals. And, of course, mere mortals have never really forgiven LISP for not catering to them." - Larry Wall |
| 16:29.28 | Supaplex | ~noogie fungus |
| 16:29.28 | ibot | ACTION puts fungus into a headlock and administers a mighty noogie, rubbing half of fungus's hair off! |
| 16:29.48 | nick125 | w00t, my arduino is on the fedex truck for delivery. |
| 16:32.36 | Jayce^ | http://www.perl.com/pub/a/2007/12/06/soto-11.html state of the onion, 11. |
| 16:32.39 | brac | [perl.com: Programming is Hard, Let's Go Scripting...] |
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| 16:32.51 | Jayce^ | larry talks about perl, and other languages :) |
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| 16:41.30 | Supaplex | cheesecake for me? |
| 16:41.34 | herlo | ~lart RyanE |
| 16:41.34 | ibot | takes large quantities of Krispy Kream donuts and stuffs them one after another down RyanE's throat until RyanE puts on 150lbs |
| 16:41.49 | Kemotaha | mmmmm.... Donut |
| 16:43.28 | jsmith | Mmmmmn... Donut |
| 16:46.30 | *** join/#utah linuxalien (n=macintar@macintard.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 16:48.58 | *** join/#utah dmdavis (n=dmdavis@75-169-56-30.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 16:49.02 | RyanE | herlo: why am I getting larted? |
| 16:49.11 | RyanE | herlo: just because I missed games night again??? |
| 16:49.31 | RyanE | ~lart herlo |
| 16:49.31 | ibot | steals herlo's mojo |
| 16:49.50 | herlo | RyanE: no games were last night |
| 16:49.58 | herlo | nor this week |
| 16:50.17 | herlo | ~lart RyanE for not being at a conference his boss was at... |
| 16:50.17 | ibot | nukes RyanE with a single large nuke for not being at a conference his boss was at... |
| 16:50.28 | RyanE | which boss? |
| 16:50.32 | RyanE | WWW? |
| 16:50.33 | *** join/#utah neybar (n=jalance@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 16:50.33 | herlo | will west |
| 16:50.56 | RyanE | well, somebody's got to stay and man the fort, and actually do some work. :) |
| 16:51.05 | Kemotaha | ~mail nick125 donut |
| 16:51.06 | ibot | ACTION folds nick125 donut up, puts a dozen stamps on him and mails nick125 donut to Russia with love. |
| 16:51.06 | herlo | hehe, he was at HomeRunsInIT at the OSTC yesterday, I was looking for you :) |
| 16:51.19 | RyanE | herlo: did you ask him if I was there? :) |
| 16:51.29 | herlo | RyanE: no, he left quickly after his session |
| 16:52.13 | nick125 | yay, donut! |
| 16:52.14 | RyanE | herlo: yeah, but it would've been funny. |
| 16:52.48 | herlo | RyanE: why is that? |
| 16:53.12 | nearn | mornin' |
| 16:53.22 | herlo | ~lart mornin' |
| 16:53.22 | ibot | pulls out his louisville slugger and uses mornin''s head to break the homerun record |
| 16:54.18 | RyanE | herlo: Will is the CEO. Not exactly 'my boss', although he is my boss' boss. |
| 16:54.32 | RyanE | herlo: actually, I take it back, I don't think he's CEO anymore. |
| 16:54.49 | herlo | RyanE: they said he was CEO yesterday |
| 16:55.01 | herlo | and I figured he wasn't your *direct* boss |
| 16:55.04 | RyanE | but he's still a few levels up the ladder from us peons. I can't keep straight who'se CEO, who'se president... |
| 16:55.11 | *** join/#utah bytheway (n=ben@166-70-97-252.ip.xmission.com) |
| 16:55.25 | herlo | sure |
| 16:55.27 | RyanE | not that it matters much to my day-to-day. |
| 16:55.41 | herlo | hehe ya |
| 16:56.22 | Jayce^ | http://www.networkworld.com/news/2007/120407-microsoft-santa-bot.html |
| 16:56.23 | brac | [Microsoft pulls plug on potty-mouth Santa - Network World] |
| 17:23.39 | Kemotaha | for all you portal fans: |
| 17:23.40 | Kemotaha | http://www.vgcats.com/comics/extras/stillalive.php |
| 17:23.42 | brac | [VG Cats - Still Alive] |
| 17:24.41 | levi | Grr, my mp3s of OK Computer suffer from CD skip noises. |
| 17:25.54 | *** join/#utah bytheway (n=ben@166-70-97-252.ip.xmission.com) |
| 17:26.16 | Supaplex | and cheesecake for all! |
| 17:44.38 | findlay | yay! |
| 17:48.56 | findlay | check this out: http://openclue.org/feed/rss/. Anyone know why openclue is escaping the html in my post so that it shows up literally? |
| 17:51.29 | *** join/#utah ScytheBlade1 (n=Death@x.puppetz.sucks.averageurl.com) |
| 17:57.53 | elg | because the software does like surveillance |
| 17:58.54 | findlay | it shows up normally in the rss feed for my blog and it doesn't bungle anyone else's HTML |
| 17:59.01 | elg | but more likely because you have a lame atom feed |
| 17:59.17 | elg | when I look at your atom feed, I see escaped html |
| 17:59.21 | findlay | ah |
| 17:59.58 | dmdavis | is it only <br /> that isn't escaped? what happens with other html? |
| 18:00.15 | elg | you mean like <p>? |
| 18:00.15 | dmdavis | does it still happen if you remove the div tags, or change them? |
| 18:00.18 | dmdavis | yeah |
| 18:00.21 | elg | maybe findlay doesn't believe in <p> |
| 18:00.25 | elg | *shrug* |
| 18:01.09 | dmdavis | just wondering if it's the tag that's the problem, because that's the only tag that he's using in the post I see |
| 18:02.06 | dmdavis | maybe it would understand <br>, and not <br /> :) |
| 18:03.36 | Supaplex | speaking of <br />, I think I'll take one now. |
| 18:11.18 | *** join/#utah Keighvin (n=ptomlins@kei.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 18:11.47 | Keighvin | ~lart Jayce^ |
| 18:11.47 | ibot | decapitates Jayce^ conan the destroyer style |
| 18:12.13 | dmdavis | shouldn't that be "Conan the Barbarian style?" |
| 18:12.26 | dmdavis | I don't remember any decapitations in destroyer, but my memory is suspect |
| 18:13.08 | dmdavis | besides which, the decapitation in barbarian is much more impressive and memorable |
| 18:31.24 | tensai | ~lart stupid refrigerators |
| 18:31.24 | ibot | gets a hotmal account and SPAMs stupid refrigerators |
| 18:32.24 | tensai | http://blogs.pcworld.com/staffblog/archives/006023.html |
| 18:32.25 | brac | [Today @ PC World ISP Tracks Customers and Targets Ads] |
| 18:32.47 | tensai | now why didn't *I* think of that? |
| 18:35.45 | levi | I'll bet Hillary would get a lot more of the Slashdot vote if she advertised this picture more: http://hillaryclinton.us/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/hillaryclinton1-2.jpg |
| 18:36.08 | levi | (contains Natalie Portman as well as Hillary) |
| 18:38.07 | Jayce^ | just proves how "cold hearted" hillary must be :) |
| 18:39.24 | tensai | it would be better if hillary had some hot grits too |
| 18:46.36 | vontrapp | ssh tunneling question |
| 18:46.45 | vontrapp | so i want to ssh to falcon |
| 18:47.23 | vontrapp | and i want port x forwarded from(through?) falcon to host z |
| 18:47.40 | vontrapp | e.g. localhost:x _or_ falcon:x will get me to z:x |
| 18:47.50 | vontrapp | z is only routable from falcon |
| 18:48.13 | vontrapp | any ideas? |
| 18:49.23 | vontrapp | nice hairdo on hillary there, btw :p |
| 18:50.20 | findlay | dmdavis, elg: I only did <br />. Maybe <p></p> would be cleaner/better |
| 18:50.42 | findlay | besides that's the only 'html' in the document :-) |
| 18:52.06 | findlay | <br> is not well-formed XHTML. In XHTML all tags must be closed. I forgot why you put a space before the / though |
| 18:52.30 | levi | XHTML is lame anyway. |
| 18:52.36 | findlay | why? |
| 18:52.39 | dmdavis | findlay: yeah, I know <br /> is better, but I'm just brain storming :) |
| 18:53.06 | findlay | dmdavis: well, I misread your comment anyway :) |
| 18:53.29 | findlay | levi: why is xhtml lame? |
| 18:53.38 | levi | Because HTML works fine, and xhtml adds cruft. |
| 18:54.15 | vontrapp | findlay: on your <entry> tag, put type="xhtml" |
| 18:54.28 | findlay | I thought the point of xhtml was to antiquate some of the features of html |
| 18:54.36 | vontrapp | then enclose the entry contents in a <div xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"> |
| 18:54.52 | levi | Yeah, but that was back in the 'XML is Cool!' fad era. |
| 18:55.13 | vontrapp | <entry type="xhtml"><div ...>entry stuff <br/> even!</div></entry> |
| 18:55.23 | levi | People are waking up from that, now. |
| 18:55.30 | vontrapp | then you don't even have to escape it |
| 18:56.01 | vontrapp | http://www.atomenabled.org/developers/syndication/#text |
| 18:56.19 | vontrapp | findlay: sorry, that should be on the <summary> tag, not <entry> |
| 18:56.33 | findlay | levi: I thought the xen of web design was a minimal set of commonly used tags for structure while using CSS to define the layout |
| 18:57.06 | findlay | vontrapp: there's no <summary> in the atom feed |
| 18:57.14 | vontrapp | then on <content> |
| 18:57.28 | vontrapp | wherever you put your post body |
| 18:57.35 | findlay | <content> is already set to type=xhtml |
| 18:57.41 | findlay | k |
| 18:57.43 | levi | findlay: First, it's Zen, not xen. Second, it's semantic markup, not 'a minimal set of commonly used tags for structure'. |
| 18:57.50 | vontrapp | do you have an enclosing <div> then? |
| 18:58.11 | vontrapp | levi: right, like how <h1> is semantic |
| 18:58.20 | vontrapp | but i hear they want to do away with such tags |
| 18:58.27 | vontrapp | silliness |
| 18:58.34 | findlay | levi: well, I don't claim to be any sort of web expert. I can't even get my blog feed formatted correctly :) |
| 18:59.11 | levi | vontrapp: h1 is indeed semantic. It means 'heading with highest level of significance'. |
| 18:59.11 | vontrapp | findlay: if you already have xhtml on your content, then maybe your problem is simply that you are escaping where you shouldn't be |
| 19:00.10 | vontrapp | for example, they want <div class="header1"> instead of <h1> |
| 19:00.15 | vontrapp | which is just dumb |
| 19:00.24 | levi | vontrapp: Have you looked at HTML 5? |
| 19:00.25 | findlay | why is that dumb? |
| 19:00.34 | vontrapp | cause <h1> is shorter |
| 19:00.48 | vontrapp | and it has useful default "style" |
| 19:00.54 | levi | vontrapp: They added a bunch of new tags so you have to do div classes *less* than you did before. |
| 19:01.10 | findlay | hm |
| 19:01.33 | levi | There are new tags like <header> <footer> <nav> etc. |
| 19:02.09 | vontrapp | cool, but then nobody's ever going to use it because IE will take years upon years to implement something so radical |
| 19:03.37 | levi | Anyway, HTML 5 is now defined via the DOM rather than via syntax, and both HTML and XHTML syntaxes are fully supported. |
| 19:04.07 | vontrapp | interesting |
| 19:05.19 | vontrapp | man, it's sooo cold in here |
| 19:05.39 | vontrapp | and to think i plan on spending all day tomorrow in these ice boxes |
| 19:05.44 | findlay | so, does HTML 5 reduce the overall verbosity of HTML? Is it more efficient? |
| 19:07.45 | levi | findlay: view the source of this page: http://www.intertwingly.net/blog/index.html and then compare to http://www.intertwingly.net/blog/index.html5 |
| 19:10.04 | findlay | looks about the same |
| 19:10.30 | levi | Right, just some more semantic names for the tags. |
| 19:12.21 | vontrapp | svg actually works inline now? |
| 19:12.24 | vontrapp | cool |
| 19:14.41 | levi | MathML too, IIRC. |
| 19:15.32 | findlay | I guess a document full of nothing but <div> and <span> is pretty mysterious unless you have well named styles |
| 19:16.36 | findlay | the only problem with MathML is it looks nowhere near as nice as TeX :) |
| 19:17.14 | vontrapp | they should make html5 more like haml and less like xml |
| 19:17.49 | vontrapp | c'mon, this is the 21 century! we can be a lot more clever with our markups than this old stagnant xml style |
| 19:17.51 | levi | vontrapp: It's either like SGML or XML, take your pick. Or write your own syntax for it. |
| 19:18.17 | vontrapp | but then you have to write a parser for the browser |
| 19:18.45 | vontrapp | man, wikimedia is so slow lately |
| 19:18.52 | findlay | yeah |
| 19:19.11 | vontrapp | and the stupid page won't even load anything until the wikimedia request is done :( |
| 19:20.34 | vontrapp | SGML XML, it's all the same anctient crud |
| 19:20.41 | vontrapp | s/ct/c/ |
| 19:20.51 | vontrapp | ~spell ancient |
| 19:21.04 | vontrapp | looks odd for some reason |
| 19:21.37 | levi | Well, SGML is even more ancient than XML, but at least it's a real markup language. |
| 19:21.53 | vontrapp | XML isn't real? |
| 19:22.02 | levi | It's real, it's just not a markup language anymore. |
| 19:22.17 | vontrapp | that's just semantics |
| 19:23.01 | levi | No, because web pages should be marked-up text. |
| 19:23.54 | levi | XML moved the cruft-to-text ratio way past what you could reasonably call a markup language. |
| 19:24.30 | vontrapp | that depends on who wrote the web page |
| 19:24.50 | vontrapp | or how |
| 19:25.17 | vontrapp | aside from the meta data in head, but you have to have meta data somehow |
| 19:26.12 | findlay | does metadata even have nutritional value? |
| 19:26.16 | vontrapp | on simple way to reduce cruf-to-text ratio is ELIMINATE stupid close tags |
| 19:26.20 | levi | I'm talking mostly about the requirement for all tags to be closed. |
| 19:26.37 | levi | Which XML has, but SGML does not. |
| 19:26.41 | vontrapp | in the most simple cases, c:t is reduced by 100%! |
| 19:27.03 | vontrapp | er, 50% |
| 19:27.11 | vontrapp | t:c is improved 100% |
| 19:27.59 | vontrapp | i see, in my brief look into sgml just now, i saw that tags were closed |
| 19:28.16 | vontrapp | didn't know that wasn't required |
| 19:29.10 | vontrapp | but you can keep the parser simplicity of XML gained by closing tags, and still have the visual simplicity of not closing tags, as python, yaml, and haml have shown us |
| 19:29.20 | findlay | but some tags ought to be closed |
| 19:29.31 | vontrapp | ALL tags ought to be closed |
| 19:29.40 | findlay | I don't understand |
| 19:29.41 | vontrapp | just in SGML it infers closing |
| 19:29.48 | vontrapp | rather than being explicit |
| 19:30.07 | findlay | well, I don't see what's so bad about self closing tags other than a minor annoyance |
| 19:30.27 | vontrapp | findlay: parser implementation is the big one |
| 19:30.49 | vontrapp | other than that, yeah who cares |
| 19:31.49 | findlay | but <ReallyLongTagName stuff=junk>[nothgin goes in here]</ReallyLongTagName> is just bad |
| 19:32.23 | vontrapp | well, yeah, cause that's not a markup, it's just data structure at that point |
| 19:32.46 | findlay | hence XML :) |
| 19:33.02 | levi | Anyway, I would be happy to see a new syntax for HTML that doesn't do SGML/XML-style tags, but I doubt it's going to happen. |
| 19:33.15 | vontrapp | well, you could do the same thing in any markup language |
| 19:33.45 | vontrapp | i think that's why yaml aint markup language, because it's meant for data structuring |
| 19:34.15 | vontrapp | levi: just dort and adopt haml |
| 19:34.21 | vontrapp | s/dort/do your/ |
| 19:34.25 | vontrapp | don't know how that happened :/ |
| 19:34.40 | vontrapp | crap, *do your part |
| 19:34.46 | levi | Do my what? |
| 19:34.50 | levi | Ahh, ok. |
| 19:36.44 | vontrapp | you can write pure XHTML in haml without any embedding and just run it through haml to get your end file that the browser understands |
| 19:36.59 | vontrapp | if you want embedding then you have to use some ruby system at this point |
| 19:37.04 | vontrapp | which is not so unfortunate |
| 19:37.52 | vontrapp | but has it's drawbacks |
| 19:38.23 | levi | Well, I read the tutorial, and it looks pretty darn Ruby-centric. |
| 19:39.01 | vontrapp | right, but you leave out the embedded code stuff, and it becomes a pure markup language |
| 19:39.31 | vontrapp | at that point it looks more pythonish than rubyish |
| 19:41.28 | vontrapp | you could even write a spiffy apache plugin that automatically parses the haml and spits out xhtml before serving it |
| 19:41.31 | levi | So, it's XHTML minus closing tags and angle brackets. |
| 19:41.38 | vontrapp | yep |
| 19:42.05 | vontrapp | unfortunately it fell into the div's are the everything trap |
| 19:42.12 | levi | Reasonable, I guess. |
| 19:43.04 | levi | Not a bandwagon I'm going to be jumping on, though. |
| 19:43.40 | levi | I like Markdown for text documents. |
| 19:44.01 | vontrapp | but it's like a bandspaship, it will take you to whole new worlds |
| 19:44.08 | vontrapp | *spaceship |
| 19:44.55 | vontrapp | markdown beats haml hands down for simplicity, but it lacks certain things like metadata |
| 19:45.12 | levi | No, it's just dressing XHTML up in new clothes. Or more like removing its clothes. I, for one, don't want to be exposed to naked markup languages! |
| 19:45.14 | vontrapp | iow you can't write a whole web page in it, only a portion |
| 19:45.46 | levi | jsmith: *DocBook* is built on SGML. |
| 19:46.25 | vontrapp | levi: true, it's current role in life is to dress up xhtml in new clotehs, but it could eventually be it's very own markup language |
| 19:46.33 | jsmith | levi: Exactly! |
| 19:47.20 | findlay | yeah, I got an argument started! |
| 19:48.00 | jsmith | It's not much of an argument, if I admit that Levi is right, is it? |
| 19:48.00 | vontrapp | ~start findlay |
| 19:48.05 | jsmith | ~push findlay |
| 19:48.06 | ibot | ACTION enlists timinator to push findlay over the edge of a very high cliff |
| 19:48.45 | vontrapp | hey! my screen started to black out! i just barely typed! |
| 19:49.11 | findlay | your screen has too many G's |
| 19:49.34 | vontrapp | i thought something was wrong with my eyes |
| 19:49.35 | timinator | findlay: consider yourself pushed! |
| 19:49.41 | vontrapp | just got dimmer and dimmer |
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| 19:50.39 | vontrapp | that would be a fun trick to play on someone, kinda like the one where you melt their screen |
| 19:51.06 | vontrapp | but you dim it really really slow, and watch them slowly put their face closer and closer to the screen |
| 19:53.09 | findlay | and then ... what? |
| 19:53.23 | vontrapp | and then you flash it really bright! |
| 19:53.27 | findlay | you turn it up to 9600 K? |
| 19:53.36 | vontrapp | see if they jump |
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| 19:57.42 | vontrapp | any useful uses for this? |
| 19:57.46 | vontrapp | irb(main):001:0> [5,3,2,7,5,3].sort_index |
| 19:57.46 | vontrapp | => [2, 5, 1, 4, 0, 3] |
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| 20:06.06 | elg | -lart vontrapp |
| 20:10.43 | tensai | hmm. is that jam on my hand or am I bleeding? |
| 20:11.33 | elg | blood from your ears. too much N Sync |
| 20:14.20 | tensai | 'twas blood |
| 20:19.01 | elg | masochist |
| 20:29.00 | levi | I don't think N Sync makes ears bleed. It just kills brain cells. |
| 20:41.05 | levi | This, on the other hand... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3tdimtxqic |
| 20:44.56 | tensai | clever though |
| 21:06.38 | ^Migs^ | This Omaha mall thing is ridiculous. According to the media, by the time the police arrived, they weren't sure how many shooters they were dealing with. They surrounded the mall, and once they were set up, shoppers and employees had to come out with their hands raised in the air |
| 21:06.52 | ^Migs^ | remember the vtech footage? Cops had the building surrounded, and they were just camping out while there were shots being fired inside. |
| 21:07.04 | ^Migs^ | why don't the cops just hand out guns to people who are actually WILLING to do something about the situation? |
| 21:10.46 | ^Migs^ | or better yet, install the national guard. No one's going to even jaywalk when there's soldiers with m-16s standing right there |
| 21:10.51 | ^Migs^ | Put one on every corner |
| 21:11.07 | ^Migs^ | I would feel SOOOO safe with that |
| 21:11.15 | ^Migs^ | until one of the soldiers starts flipping out for no reason, I guess |
| 21:12.02 | Jayce^ | ^Migs^, you obviously haven't lived in a country that's had that... |
| 21:12.41 | tensai | it's working in iraq, so why not here? |
| 21:13.51 | Keighvin | Well, nets. Dr. Pepper + Keyboard = antitypography. |
| 21:14.12 | ^Migs^ | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:14.16 | Keighvin | s/nets/nuts/ |
| 21:14.35 | ^Migs^ | I was thinking more south korea |
| 21:16.12 | ^Migs^ | cuz everyone wants to be like south korea |
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| 21:39.09 | levi | http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/12/10/071210fa_fact_gawande |
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| 21:43.05 | *** mode/#utah [+o Jayce^] by ChanServ |
| 21:51.06 | goozbach | Keighvin: try sugar ants |
| 21:51.16 | goozbach | they clean keyboards nicely from wha tI understand |
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| 22:22.05 | levi | elg: So, Rails 2.0. Any comments on it? |
| 22:22.46 | elg | some good things, particularly the maturation of things (AR performance, etc.) |
| 22:23.15 | elg | and I hope that it settles down now. this release is more settled than the 1.2 was, from where I sit (semi-interested bystander, mostly) |
| 22:23.40 | levi | Has it had a lot of internal changes lately? |
| 22:24.15 | elg | when rails stops being a moving target, I'll be more likely to commit things to memory instead of being completely dependent on the book and/or online documentation |
| 22:24.39 | elg | some people can keep up with the changes, I don't immerse myself enough to do so |
| 22:24.55 | levi | I've yet to be convinced that Rails is something I might want to use. |
| 22:25.10 | elg | there have been a fair number of changes over the past 2 years or so, but I think perhaps it's been slowing down |
| 22:25.17 | levi | Though it remains in the 'something interesting to look at sometime' pile. |
| 22:25.30 | elg | mostly changes for the better, but you have to draw the line somewhere and stop changing things |
| 22:26.04 | levi | I suppose so. |
| 22:26.33 | levi | DHH doesn't seem like the type of guy to stop changing things for the sake of support, though. |
| 22:26.40 | elg | rails is a decent web framework. to me its primary strengths are: it's in ruby, it encourages MVC, and the design feels 80% good |
| 22:26.50 | levi | I mean, it's his playground, he just lets everyone else play in it too. |
| 22:27.19 | elg | yeah. but at some point the community stops playing and sticks with the version they like |
| 22:27.28 | elg | 1.2 or 2.0, hopefully one of those two |
| 22:28.04 | elg | some people will play on the edge, but hosting companies and development shops, etc. will probably start gravitating to an already-released version instead of everyone drooling and backporting features from edge rails |
| 22:28.07 | levi | It's kind of interesting what happend to Seaside. Its maintenance was taken over completely by other people. Avi just builds stuff with it now. |
| 22:28.13 | elg | that's also an inverse relationship with the hype, I suppose |
| 22:29.05 | elg | the biggest thing I like about rails, actually, is activerecord |
| 22:29.15 | elg | and that it can be used outside of rails also |
| 22:29.49 | levi | It does seem pretty cool, though I'm not completely sold on the 'convention over configuration' philosophy. |
| 22:30.37 | elg | yeah, it has ups and downs. but AR is just gold |
| 22:32.01 | elg | I don't drink all the flavors of rails koolaid, just some. and I mix and match some |
| 22:33.06 | levi | I was considering learning Django to set up the plig infrastructure, but I got broadsided by schoolwork and family stuff, so I never got very far. |
| 22:41.12 | tensai | my favorite koolaid flavor is red |
| 22:43.57 | goozbach | tensai: you must be from the south, that's the only place I know of where "red" is a flavor |
| 22:45.33 | tensai | nope. just pointing out that all the flavors taste the same. it's just sugar, artificial flavors and artificial colors. |
| 22:47.20 | goozbach | I was making a statement about how in the south, "red" is an acceptable "flavor" |
| 22:47.31 | goozbach | "what flavor juice you want" |
| 22:47.33 | goozbach | -- "red" |
| 22:47.45 | goozbach | -- "ok here you go" *pats head* |
| 22:47.54 | dataw0lf | goozbach: that isn't a Southern specific thing. |
| 22:51.38 | *** join/#utah bbeattie (n=media@65.48.77.206) |
| 22:52.41 | bbeattie | any switch/vlan guru's around? |
| 23:01.26 | tensai | bbeattie: you can go ahead and ask. somebody might know. |
| 23:05.57 | bbeattie | I've got an smc switch and there's a few oddities to me. The first is seems like I can only get into a web admin interface if through a port on vlan1 (is this typical? I can't find any info in the manual or online about this) the second is I can't remove the last port from vlan1, but having it in another vlan doesn't pass data to that other vlan. |
| 23:10.49 | tensai | I've seen that before where you can only manage a device from one vlan. I've got a wireless network set up that way. |
| 23:11.21 | tensai | I'm not sure what could cause that last port to be stuck in vlan1, unless it's that way by design. maybe they want to guarantee you have a port that can admin the switch. |
| 23:16.40 | bbeattie | odd thing is there are only 4 gig ports and that's one of them... |
| 23:17.02 | bbeattie | I wouldn't mind it as much, but I can't get the port to communicate on another vlan port also |
| 23:22.44 | *** join/#utah Kemotaha (n=Kemotaha@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 23:26.16 | *** join/#utah linuxalien (n=macintar@oalug/member/linuxalien) |
| 23:30.06 | findlay | but color and flavor are distinct quantum properties |
| 23:32.12 | *** join/#utah Shadowwire (n=shadowwi@209-253-33-218.ip.mcleodusa.net) |
| 23:32.19 | Shadowwire | sup. |
| 23:33.38 | Shadowwire | -chat 3ds |
| 23:33.38 | brac | 3ds went |
| 23:33.53 | Shadowwire | 3ds is cool. |
| 23:33.58 | Shadowwire | -chat 3ds |
| 23:33.58 | brac | 3ds is cool. Why would you be reincarnated as a happy dance, reminiscent of the German Neo-Nazi fashion of the 15th, whereas findlay found find fun. findfly found finding find fun |
| 23:34.20 | findlay | heh |
| 23:34.22 | Shadowwire | -chat findlay |
| 23:34.23 | brac | findlay was hoping someone could provide a raw rtp to g729 converter? |
| 23:34.36 | findlay | -chat Shadowwire |
| 23:34.37 | brac | Shadowwire had |
| 23:34.42 | Shadowwire | fun fun! |
| 23:35.02 | Shadowwire | shadowwire is cool |
| 23:35.08 | Shadowwire | -chat shadowwire |
| 23:35.08 | brac | shadowwire had |
| 23:35.13 | findlay | -chat Shadowwire is |
| 23:35.14 | brac | Shadowwire is cool |
| 23:35.23 | dmdavis | shadowwire smells like monkey poop |
| 23:35.27 | findlay | -chat findlay is |
| 23:35.27 | brac | findlay is coming from the Southeast at KPVU. The temperature was 2 1/2 hours long, and thanks again for your own nerdcore band? |
| 23:35.42 | Shadowwire | shadowwire smells like a petunia. |
| 23:35.51 | Shadowwire | -chat shadowwire |
| 23:35.51 | brac | shadowwire did |
| 23:35.55 | dmdavis | -chat shadowwire smells |
| 23:35.56 | brac | shadowwire smells like vomit. |
| 23:36.01 | findlay | heh |
| 23:36.15 | Shadowwire | -chat findlay smells |
| 23:36.16 | brac | findlay smells like turds |
| 23:36.26 | dmdavis | ouch |
| 23:36.30 | findlay | -chat dmdavis smells |
| 23:36.31 | brac | dmdavis smells |
| 23:36.40 | findlay | interesting |
| 23:36.40 | dmdavis | dmdavis smells great |
| 23:36.46 | dmdavis | -chat dmdavis smells |
| 23:36.46 | brac | dmdavis smells great |
| 23:36.47 | Shadowwire | -dmdavis smells like paint |
| 23:36.57 | dmdavis | -chat dmdavis smells |
| 23:36.57 | Shadowwire | -chat dmdavis smells |
| 23:36.58 | brac | dmdavis smells great |
| 23:37.03 | dmdavis | sweet |
| 23:37.06 | Shadowwire | rats. |
| 23:37.25 | findlay | just give him some time and he'll scramble it up |
| 23:37.36 | findlay | -chat scramble it |
| 23:37.36 | brac | scramble it up though ... I'm installing ubuntu on my own name. |
| 23:37.39 | dmdavis | now, we need to quickly assign smells to everyone else if brac doesn't have one yet |
| 23:37.43 | Shadowwire | dmdavis eats worms |
| 23:37.53 | synic | eco smells like paint |
| 23:38.06 | Shadowwire | -chat eco smells |
| 23:38.06 | brac | eco smells like dog food for them. |
| 23:38.12 | synic | mmk then |
| 23:38.15 | Shadowwire | -chat dmdavis eats |
| 23:38.15 | brac | dmdavis eats worms and cans and string all the way he says it's 1913 Webster |
| 23:38.21 | synic | haha |
| 23:38.32 | Shadowwire | nice. |
| 23:39.01 | Shadowwire | dmdavis has food |
| 23:39.06 | Shadowwire | -chat dmdavis has |
| 23:39.06 | brac | dmdavis has food |
| 23:39.21 | findlay | -chat Leaving |
| 23:39.22 | brac | Leaving was |
| 23:39.31 | findlay | -chat stuff |
| 23:39.31 | brac | stuff is mostly braindead |
| 23:39.34 | Shadowwire | klys smells like a potato |
| 23:39.43 | Shadowwire | -chat klys |
| 23:39.43 | brac | klys is currently on #bzflag (5d 22h 26m 2s) #pillbox (5d 22h 26m 2s) #pillbox (5d 22h 26m 2s) #gllug (5d 12h 18m 56s) #zaurus (5d 12h 19m 24s) #openzaurus (5d 12h 19m 24s) #familiar (5d 12h 19m 24s) #familiar (5d 12h 19m 24s) #silvercat (5d ... |
| 23:39.57 | Shadowwire | -chat klys smells |
| 23:39.57 | brac | klys smells like dog doo! |
| 23:40.11 | Shadowwire | -chat levi |
| 23:40.11 | brac | levi had a million people continued to type. |
| 23:40.20 | Shadowwire | like monkeys. |
| 23:40.20 | dmdavis | elg smells like a møøse |
| 23:40.31 | Shadowwire | -chat elg smells |
| 23:40.31 | brac | elg smells like turds |
| 23:40.40 | dmdavis | huh |
| 23:40.47 | findlay | -chat what's on |
| 23:40.47 | brac | what's on her own apartment in provo to scrounge up enough seats from neighboring classrooms. It'll be used by me stealing your wallet. There are usually nicer than java |
| 23:40.54 | Shadowwire | brac needs more smells. |
| 23:41.01 | Shadowwire | -chat brac |
| 23:41.01 | brac | brac did |
| 23:41.15 | Shadowwire | -chat brac needs |
| 23:41.16 | brac | brac needs |
| 23:41.33 | Shadowwire | -chat shadowwire |
| 23:41.34 | brac | shadowwire was last seen in awhile |
| 23:41.59 | Shadowwire | klys looks like monkeys. |
| 23:42.04 | Shadowwire | -chat klys |
| 23:42.05 | brac | klys went |
| 23:42.11 | Shadowwire | -chat klys looks |
| 23:42.11 | brac | klys looks it up for the education. |
| 23:42.51 | Shadowwire | ~lart herself |
| 23:42.51 | ibot | slaps a compatible dib on herself's head |
| 23:43.23 | Shadowwire | -chat levi |
| 23:43.24 | brac | levi is right; we tore their electrical and water services/! |
| 23:43.41 | eco | Huh? |
| 23:43.45 | eco | Zuh? |
| 23:44.17 | Shadowwire | help |
| 23:44.21 | Shadowwire | -help |
| 23:44.21 | brac | help topics: core, auth [53 plugins: 8ball, autoop, autorejoin, bans, bash, cal, chucknorris, deepthought, demauro, dice, digg, dns, excuse, figlet, forecast, fortune, freshmeat, host, imdb, insult, iplookup|userip, karmastats|karma, keyword|forget|tell, lart, lastfm, markov|chat, math, movieplot|movietitle, nickserv, opme, qauth, quotes, realm, remind, roshambo, rot13, roulette, |
| 23:44.22 | brac | rps, rss, rubyurl, search|google, seen, slashdot, spell, threat, tinyurl, topic, translate, tube, urban, urls, weather|metar, wserver; 13 plugins ignored: use help ignored plugins to see why] (help <topic> for more info) |
| 23:44.42 | Shadowwire | -roulette |
| 23:44.42 | brac | Shadowwire: chamber 1 of 6 => *BANG* |
| 23:48.04 | Shadowwire | -chat shadowwire |
| 23:48.04 | brac | shadowwire was last year or so, eh? |
| 23:50.57 | Shadowwire | -figlet |
| 23:50.58 | brac | incorrect usage: figlet [<message>] => print using figlet |
| 23:51.37 | Shadowwire | -figlet [brac eats worms] |
| 23:51.38 | brac | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:51.38 | brac | | _|| |__ _ __ __ _ ___ ___ __ _ | |_ ___ |
| 23:51.39 | brac | | | | '_ \ | '__|/ _` | / __| / _ \ / _` || __|/ __| |
| 23:51.39 | brac | | | | |_) || | | (_| || (__ | __/| (_| || |_ \__ \ |
| 23:51.40 | brac | | | |_.__/ |_| \__,_| \___| \___| \__,_| \__||___/ |
| 23:51.41 | brac | |__| |
| 23:51.41 | brac | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:51.43 | brac | __ __ ___ _ __ _ __ ___ ___|_ | |
| 23:51.45 | brac | \ \ /\ / // _ \ | '__|| '_ ` _ \ / __|| | |
| 23:51.47 | brac | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:51.49 | brac | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:51.51 | brac | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:52.45 | Shadowwire | -excuse me |
| 23:52.45 | brac | excessive collisions & not enough packet ambulances |
| 23:53.03 | Shadowwire | -excuse yourself |
| 23:53.04 | brac | Your packets were eaten by the terminator |
| 23:53.16 | Shadowwire | -excuse |
| 23:53.17 | brac | 50% of the manual is in .pdf readme files |
| 23:53.27 | Shadowwire | -excuse |
| 23:53.27 | brac | Small animal kamikaze attack on power supplies |
| 23:53.36 | Shadowwire | -excuse |
| 23:53.36 | brac | Suspicious pointer corrupted virtual machine |
| 23:53.43 | Shadowwire | -excuse |
| 23:53.43 | brac | Evil dogs hypnotised the night shift |
| 23:53.49 | Shadowwire | -excuse |
| 23:53.49 | brac | The mainframe needs to rest. It's getting old, you know. |
| 23:53.57 | Shadowwire | -excuse |
| 23:53.57 | brac | temporary routing anomaly |
| 23:54.03 | Shadowwire | -excuse |
| 23:54.03 | brac | Groundskeepers stole the root password |
| 23:54.24 | Shadowwire | -excuse |
| 23:54.24 | brac | T-1's congested due to porn traffic to the news server. |
| 23:54.34 | Shadowwire | -excuse |
| 23:54.34 | brac | stop bit received |
| 23:54.49 | Shadowwire | -excuse |
| 23:54.49 | brac | _Rosin_ core solder? But... |
| 23:55.02 | Shadowwire | -excuse |
| 23:55.02 | brac | positron router malfunction |
| 23:55.29 | Shadowwire | -excuse |
| 23:55.30 | brac | because Bill Gates is a Jehovah's witness and so nothing can work on St. Swithin's day. |
| 23:56.04 | Shadowwire | -excuse |
| 23:56.04 | brac | Telecommunications is downshifting. |
| 23:56.54 | Shadowwire | -excuse |
| 23:56.54 | brac | The mainframe needs to rest. It's getting old, you know. |
| 23:56.56 | Shadowwire | -excuse |
| 23:56.57 | brac | virus attack, luser responsible |
| 23:57.02 | Shadowwire | -excuse |
| 23:57.02 | brac | pseudo-user on a pseudo-terminal |
| 23:57.06 | Shadowwire | -excuse |
| 23:57.07 | brac | hardware stress fractures |
| 23:57.38 | Shadowwire | -excuse |
| 23:57.39 | brac | Dyslexics retyping hosts file on servers |
| 23:57.47 | Shadowwire | -excuse |
| 23:57.47 | brac | CD-ROM server needs recalibration |
| 23:57.58 | Shadowwire | -excuse |
| 23:57.58 | brac | heavy gravity fluctuation, move computer to floor rapidly |
| 23:58.03 | Shadowwire | -excuse |
| 23:58.04 | brac | Mail server hit by UniSpammer. |
| 23:58.06 | Shadowwire | -excuse |
| 23:58.07 | brac | Backbone adjustment |
| 23:58.11 | Shadowwire | -excuse |
| 23:58.12 | brac | permission denied |
| 23:58.15 | Shadowwire | -excuse |
| 23:58.15 | brac | astropneumatic oscillations in the water-cooling |
| 23:59.00 | RyanE | -8ball |
| 23:59.01 | brac | incorrect usage, ask for help using 'brac: help 8ball' |
| 23:59.18 | RyanE | -help 8ball |
| 23:59.18 | brac | magic 8-ball ruby bot module written by novex for nvinfo on #dumber@quakenet, usage:<botname> 8ball will i ever beat this cancer? |
| 23:59.34 | RyanE | -8ball will I enjoy the concert? |
| 23:59.35 | brac | you best check yo'self! |
| 23:59.43 | RyanE | heh |
| 23:59.58 | RyanE | guess I should leave the kids at home. |
