IRC log for #utah on 20071129

00:04.37*** join/#utah pjw (n=pjw@128.187.143.218)
00:32.20*** part/#utah dmdavis (n=dmdavis@75-169-30-107.slkc.qwest.net)
01:14.20*** join/#utah wps (n=wps@208.53.47.251)
01:41.12findlay~date
01:41.12ibotIt is now 2007.11.29  1:41:12 GMT
01:49.10*** join/#utah Sargun (n=Sargun@atarack/staff/sargun)
02:10.30tensaiJayce^: yo
02:14.34*** join/#utah pjw (n=pjw@72.8.78.198)
02:15.27*** join/#utah lakshmi (n=Lakshmi@66-240-25-49.isp.comcastbusiness.net)
02:15.29lakshmihey
02:19.51vontrapphoy
02:24.07*** join/#utah Sargun (n=Sargun@atarack/staff/sargun)
03:05.01*** join/#utah decriptor (n=decripto@161.28.254.35)
03:09.17*** join/#utah knine (n=knine@128.187.146.132)
03:09.22elgfun with HTML and CSS (and no Javascript) http://hans.fugal.net/wesnoth_units/units.html
03:11.34elgme probably. are you jake?
03:14.50findlaytalk, in this channel, on purpose?
03:15.16knineit's me, Jake!
03:15.29knineand why am I using knine in this channel?
03:15.54findlayI thought this channel didn't really have a topic anymore due to the extreme ecclecticism of mind the people who frequent it
03:16.06findlays/mind/minds/
03:17.05elgknine: good to see you, long time no see :)
03:17.36elgwhen is that doctor who for the children something or other special? I think I heard november
03:18.47knineyes, google video is your friend
03:18.54kninegood fanboy fun
03:20.12elgcool, I need to watch it
03:20.47knineI've also seen Razor.  Not quite what I thought it was going to be, but it didn't disappoint
03:22.20knineoh....... my default username is taken
03:22.25knineoh well, knine it is
03:22.43knineless people will know who I am, so I can offend them all over again
03:22.58*** join/#utah Lakshmi (n=chatzill@75-25-129-78.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net)
03:23.10Lakshmimaquis: are u around?
03:23.20Lakshmithe anceient mediteranian world changed from a place of freedom different cultures to a place of overconfidence and greed which can be seen through the reign of the roman republic through the art, philosphy and military which changed from simplicitic realism to grand ideals through the course of time.
03:25.31elgknine: i'll watch it in about 15 minutes, so in like 25 minutes we could talk about it if you like
03:25.39kninew00t
03:28.04findlayknine: I'm around.  You can offend me now
03:30.40kninefindlay:  man that former UUG webmaster did nothing!
03:30.49knine;)
03:31.14Lakshmiwill anyone tell me if that theis is good or not?
03:32.00elgyour teacher probably will
03:32.03elgin red
03:34.02*** join/#utah dmdavis (n=dmdavis@72.8.117.60)
03:42.34maquisLakshmi: i'm around now
03:42.59Lakshmiyay!
03:43.01knineyes, thesis advisers like to bleed all over what you've written
03:43.13Lakshmihehe
03:43.14Lakshmiyeah
03:43.17Lakshmibut what bout you guys
03:43.27Lakshmidoes that look anything normal at alll ?
03:43.29maquisLakshmi: i'm assuming you're planning on fixing the spelling and grammar erroros?
03:43.33Lakshmiyeah
03:43.38Lakshmiexcuse those for the momment please
03:43.40maquis:)
03:43.53Lakshmicontent wise is it ok?
03:44.56maquislooks ok.  btw, when is the period you're discussing starting? (ie, do you get to contrast the greek and roman empires?  because that would be easier than the beginning to end of the roman empire...)
03:45.12kninehttp://www.phdcomics.com/comics/archive.php?comicid=808
03:45.13brac[PHD Comics: Illegible]
03:45.22maquiswhat are you going to say about military changes in rome?
03:45.42knineand my personal favorite:  www.phdcomics.com/comics/archive.php?comicid=806
03:46.58maquisheh
03:47.11maquisknine: long time no see
03:47.35*** join/#utah dmdavis (n=dmdavis@72.8.117.60)
03:47.45knineya, I'm still around
03:48.05kninestill in the UUG presidency thanks to a SCO++ bribe
03:48.51Lakshmiuhhh begening of the roman republic til its end. and how things changed during that period and how the face of the mediteranian changed maquis
03:49.11Lakshmiand uh i think im a llowed to constrast greek and roman empires, i mean in a way didnt they  both fall the same way
03:49.18Lakshmithrough over confidence
03:49.29Lakshmiand too much militaristic conquest?
03:52.25maquisiirc, yeah
03:52.45maquisas far as ancient greece, my strength is primarily actually mythology
03:52.45maquis:)
04:04.10Lakshmiyeah but romans werent a big fan of mythology were they?
04:05.01Lakshmithe single best way  of conceptualizing how the ancient world of the mediteranianc changed through the repuplic
04:05.12Lakshmithat thesis will work for that right?
04:13.18Lakshmi?
04:30.22*** join/#utah Sargun (n=Sargun@atarack/staff/sargun)
04:30.52maquisromans had a pretty extensive mythology as well
04:31.05maquisin fact, many of the stories are virtually the same as in greek mythology
04:31.09SargunYeah.
04:31.09maquisjust different names
04:31.19SargunThey hijacked the greeks!
04:32.36findlay-chat ~seen Sargun
04:32.37brac~seen Sargun
04:32.38ibotsargun is currently on #utah (2m 16s). Has said a total of 2 messages. Is idling for 1m 19s, last said: 'They hijacked the greeks!'.
04:33.03Sargunwho took down my onjoin?
04:33.22Sargun~onjoin Sargun http://xbmodder.us/pyportal/welcome.py
04:33.22ibotSargun: ok
04:33.24*** part/#utah Sargun (n=Sargun@atarack/staff/sargun)
04:33.25*** join/#utah Sargun (n=Sargun@atarack/staff/sargun)
04:33.26brac[~
04:33.26brac~say Fortune: You will be attacked next Wednesday at 3:15 p.m. by six samurai
04:33.27ibotFortune: You will be attacked next Wednesday at 3:15 p.m. by six samurai
04:33.27bracsword wielding purple fish glued to Harley-Davidson motorcycles.
04:33.27bracOh, and have a nice day!
04:33.30brac-- Bryce Nesbitt '84
04:33.31brac~]
04:33.31brac[~
04:33.31brac~say Chess tonight.
04:33.32ibotChess tonight.
04:33.38Sargunwhoa.
04:33.39SargunWtf.
04:33.58SargunThat's odd...
04:34.51Lakshmimaquis: would it be the anead by virgil?
04:34.58Lakshmiyour talking bout?
04:35.01Lakshmiand hi sargun
04:35.07SargunHi.
04:35.45Lakshmiwhats up?
04:36.22SargunOne of our monitoring servers is down.
04:36.26SargunI want to go to the Gym.
04:36.38SargunBut if I don't get it back up by 9:00 PM PST8PDT then I'm :-(
04:36.57nick125Sargun: better get crackin!
04:37.16Sargunyeah
04:37.49Lakshmii think u should go to the gym?
04:38.25nick125mmm. my server handles 1,680 packets per minute on NTP.
04:39.14Lakshmisargun what bout ures!?
04:39.33nick125That's almost a billion packets a year.
04:40.29nick1251.7 billion packets in total (in + out)
04:42.48SargunI do 20 packets a second.
04:42.49Sargun:-)
04:43.43nick12528/sec here for NTP.
04:59.23maquisLakshmi: actually, just referring to roman mythology as a whole
04:59.46Lakshmido u know anything about roman art
04:59.54maquisa little
04:59.56Lakshmiand yeah i guess so cause romans jus stole greek stuffs
05:00.03Lakshmido u know how it changed?
05:00.07maquisnot a whole lot
05:00.14Lakshmiim saying it went from being modest to being super grand
05:06.37bbeattiewhich rom do people prefer for linksys's wrt54gl's?
05:07.20tensaiopenwrt
05:07.30tensaithat what you mean?
05:08.10bbeattieyup
05:08.37bbeattieI thought someone threw out sveasoft, but I see that's requires $ for the latest versions
05:10.11bbeattieor tomato
05:10.18tensaiI've got an old version of sveasoft (samadhi), but I don't recomend it
05:11.38bbeattieopenwrt is the better choice by a decent margin then?
05:12.25tensaibetter than a 3 year old version of a difficult to obtain firmware
05:12.52tensaiI really like it. I use a lot of cisco routers so openwrt feels similar. I guess there's a gui for it, but I've never tried it.
05:13.43bbeattie.. I just noticed that I didn't need the -gl, the -gs is supported and has twice the rom and memory, does that matter much?
05:14.29Sargunoh, god, everything is normal
05:14.31Sargunfinally.
05:14.36tensaihasn't to me. I've got a v2 with not much flash or ram. still works fine. if you wanted to run squid or asterisk on it, that might be a concern.
05:17.15bbeattieno need for asterisk, I have that running on it's own box now, and I don't care for squid, I got the wrt54gl isolate different vlans on a switch
05:18.25nick125(That's only....645k LEDs)
05:20.16maquisLakshmi: you'll have to find some examples in order to qualify that
05:20.53Lakshmiwell in the book it says that before ceaser rome wasnt as grand
05:21.08Lakshmiand then only during hte empire phase it built all the coloseums and stuffs
05:21.15Lakshmiand it from unidealized
05:21.21Lakshmito always idealized
05:21.28Lakshmiand art being used for propaganda
05:21.34Lakshminot for personal happeines
05:21.39maquisLakshmi: ok.  i'd suggest doing some research on that, then
05:21.39maquis:)
05:24.16bbeattietensai: do you recommend the bin(default?) or pptp image?
05:30.28tensaibbeattie: not quite sure. I doubt you need pptp.
05:30.39tensaiit's been a while since I installed
05:30.58tensaifrom what I see the bin file is the firmware and pptp is just an add-on package
05:36.23findlaytensai: from what I understand the development version of openwrt is much different than the current release
05:36.42findlayof course I went for the dev version when I got my router :)
05:37.03findlaythere's no keeping me away from those sharp edges
05:38.26tensaifindlay: don't trip and fall. you might cut yourself.
05:42.02vontrappstupid vmware!
05:42.25vontrappwhen you use a physical drive and a partition on such, it _always_ wants to boot off the MBR
05:42.39vontrappwhy why why can't it boot of the partitions boot record? that's what would make sense
05:46.05*** join/#utah bonez44 (n=scott@c-24-10-147-163.hsd1.ut.comcast.net)
05:46.14bonez44??
05:50.36vontrapphow come i can't boot off the cd image on vmware?
05:51.31*** join/#utah sargun-palm (n=upirc@70.0.8.79)
05:51.35sargun-palmheya
05:51.44findlay~hey sargun-palm
05:52.06sargun-palmI just noticed a major neywork outage at equinix
05:52.08sargun-palmher
05:52.09findlay~hay sargun-palm
05:52.10sargun-palmerr
05:52.15sargun-palmobserved
05:52.17vontrappah, there we go
05:52.39findlaythe network went out with another network?
05:52.47findlayon an outage
05:52.48sargun-palma good chunk of the peering fabric broke up.
05:53.08findlayyou ripped the fabric of cyberspace?
05:53.11tensailuckily sargun was there with a needle and thread
05:53.14sargun-palmfindlay: a huge outage
05:53.30sargun-palmpackets were being flung everywhere.
05:54.09sargun-palmthey got packets all over the cisco, juniper, and foundry routers
05:54.25sargun-palmsuch a dirty outage.
05:54.42vontrappproblem is, my drive crashed, on the drive was where all the programs were
05:54.53vontrappthe os is still fine, except that it thinks all these progras are installed
05:55.02sargun-palmvontrapp: any user data?
05:55.16vontrappi can't uninstall/reinstall or otherwise fix some of the programs
05:55.17findlayin a spectacular show of ninja-jedi mastery sargun-palm weaved his palm through the breach in a wonderful display of his obvious achievement of the basket weaving merit badge thus effectively patching the rip
05:55.39vontrappnothing i care about, what i really care about is not babysitting it for a couple hours
05:55.52vontrappso if repair is quick _and_ it will work for me, i would do that
05:56.01sargun-palmunderwater basket weavving actually
05:56.51findlayah, you would need that version in order to withstand the deluge of packets spewing in torrents
05:56.53vontrappbut if it's not quick or it will likely still be broken
05:57.03sargun-palmwomen shouldn't flirt at the gym. I hate their shreikss!
05:57.21vontrapppackettorrent, like bittorrent, but more
05:57.34vontrappheeeeeee
05:57.36*** part/#utah bonez44 (n=scott@c-24-10-147-163.hsd1.ut.comcast.net)
05:57.38sargun-palmI have huge torrent
05:57.51sargun-palmmegatorrent
05:58.00findlayyoctotorrent
05:58.01vontrappspeaking of flirting at the gym, my wife encountered a gay guy in the sauna wearing white boxer briefs that he swam in
05:58.05vontrappshe was so grossed out
05:58.24sargun-palmuhh
05:58.34sargun-palmvontrapp: repr
05:58.46sargun-palmreport'em?
05:58.59sargun-palmfindlay: sure
05:59.01vontrappthen he went around "stretching" and "lifting (styrafoam) weights"
05:59.12findlayexercise is an solitary pursuit best pursued outside where it is cold and unforgiving
05:59.20sargun-palmwe don't have a sauna :-(
05:59.25vontrappi gym official ended up talking to him, yeah
05:59.28findlayno feel-good exercise
05:59.30sargun-palmI want a sauna
05:59.31vontrapps/i /a /
06:00.11vontrappi promised my wife a sauna in our house some day
06:00.11sargun-palmI'm tired :-(
06:00.19sargun-palmonly half way done
06:00.48findlaytired from withstanding half of the intarwebs single palmed
06:00.48sargun-palmvontrapp, why?
06:01.14vontrappbecause it would be awesome
06:02.26tensaiafter the novelty wore off it would be awesome twice a month
06:02.42sargun-palmhow so it would be awesome
06:03.01sargun-palmtensai, I'm guessing the insane bgp flapping didn't reach you?
06:03.16vontrappbecause it's a sauna _and_ it's private, no strangers spitting, or wearing whitey tightys
06:03.17tensaisargun-palm: we don't dampen
06:03.40sargun-palmah
06:03.50vontrappscrew it, i'm installing clean, i don't want to do this twice
06:04.12vontrappit goes a lot faster with an iso image on the hd, too!
06:04.38sargun-palmtensao: you don't get alerts when there is a major flapping between routers?
06:05.39sargun-palmtensao
06:05.46sargun-palmthat has a certain ring to it.
06:05.56sargun-palmtenso.
06:06.13sargun-palmall tense
06:06.19sargun-palm~ping
06:06.19ibotpong
06:06.41vontrappo/` on the seventh day of christmas my true love gave to me... seven eleven workers
06:07.07tensaisargun-palm: nope, we don't. it really doesn't affect us much. what would we do about it anyway?
06:07.27Lakshmiwhoa
06:07.33Lakshmiim soo not close
06:07.57sargun-palmtensai: if an upstream is flapping then as-prepend to them?
06:08.15vontrapp^Migs^: when's the next concert?
06:08.18sargun-palmit might mean something is wrong
06:08.20tensaiyou've just exceeded my bgp knowledge
06:08.48sargun-palmhaha
06:08.50sargun-palmsorry :-(
06:08.58sargun-palmthis is what I do for fun
06:09.03sargun-palmemail checking time!
06:09.05sargun-palmbbl
06:09.06tensai~pity sargun-palm
06:09.07ibotI pity da fool sargun-palm!
06:20.53Lakshmihehe
06:21.13*** part/#utah dmdavis (n=dmdavis@72.8.117.60)
06:50.01Sarguntensai, I pity the fool
07:20.44findlay~pit Sargun
07:20.51findlay~pi
07:20.52ibotfrom memory, pi is 3.141592653589793238462643383279502884197169399375105820974944592307816406286208998628034825342117067982148086513282306647093844609550582231725359408128481117450284102701938521105559644622948954930381964428810975665933446128475648233786783165271201909145648566923460348610454326648213393607260249141273724587006606315588174881520920962829254091
07:20.55findlay~p
07:21.20Sargunhm
07:23.30findlay~hm
07:23.31ibotI wonder...
07:23.36findlay~sing
07:23.37ibotACTION sings loudly
07:23.41findlay~loud
07:23.48findlay~sargun
07:23.49ibotsomebody said sargun was amazing.
07:26.23SargunI am..
07:30.11findlay~I
07:30.14findlay~
07:30.17findlay<PROTECTED>
07:30.20findlay~~
07:30.21ibotEvery moment in which I'm called upon is torture.
07:30.24findlay~~~
07:30.25ibotI HATE YOU, findlay!!!
07:30.28findlay~~~~
07:30.29ibotARGH!!! STOP IT findlay!!!
07:30.32findlay~~~~~
07:30.33ibotgrrrr
07:30.36findlay~~~~~~
07:30.37ibotACTION takes out a revolver and shoots findlay in the head three times.
07:30.42findlay~~~~~~~
07:30.42ibotACTION lets a freakishly huge killer whale named Hugh eat findlay.
07:30.48findlay~~~~~~~~
07:30.48ibotYou know, this got old a long time ago.
07:30.53findlay~~~~~~~~~
07:30.54ibotI'm ignoring you now.
07:30.58findlay~~~~~~~~~~
07:31.12findlaythat's it, the end of recursion
07:31.17findlay~recurse
07:31.18ibot~recurse
07:31.29findlay~say -chat ~recurse
07:31.30ibot-chat ~recurse
07:31.31brac~recurse had
07:31.32ibothad: type ~recurse had to find out more
07:37.57findlay~say -chat Sargun
07:37.58ibot-chat Sargun
07:37.59bracSargun was amazing.
07:40.24Sargunhe was?
07:41.03findlay~say -chat was
07:41.04ibot-chat was
07:41.05bracwas had
07:41.27findlay~say -chat ~say -chat
07:41.28ibot-chat ~say -chat
07:41.30brac~say -chat ~lart
07:41.30ibot-chat ~lart
07:41.31brac~lart is
07:41.31ibotplops is into a giant vat of herring
07:41.51findlay~say -chat ~say -chat
07:41.51ibot-chat ~say -chat
07:41.52brac~say -chat about ~say -chat ~say -rlart
07:41.53ibot-chat about ~say -chat ~say -rlart
07:41.53bracincorrect usage, ask for help using 'brac: help chat'
07:42.10findlay~say -chat ~say -chat
07:42.10ibot-chat ~say -chat
07:42.11brac~say -chat about ~onjoin ~findlay
07:42.12ibot-chat about ~onjoin ~findlay
07:42.13brac~onjoin ~findlay
07:49.14*** join/#utah tensai (n=tensai@joanna.zmonkey.org)
07:49.23findlayI think I'll never stop being surprised and amazed and grateful and enriched by the goodness of wikipedia
07:49.37tensai~lart qwest
07:49.37ibottakes a large goose feather pillow and swings it wildly in qwest's direction, hitting qwest and sending qwest flying into the closet
07:50.12tensaithey must have been doing some DSLAM work tonight. my DSL stopped working promptly at midnight and just came back.
07:50.23tensainow, being my own ISP I know that nothing went wrong there
07:52.46tensaithe main problem was that I had my own midnight upgrade to do and needed my Internet for it
13:21.21*** join/#utah hatul30 (i=hatul30@gateway/tor/x-3e3abe42efe1d8c4)
13:36.17*** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@216.31.27.110)
14:12.20*** join/#utah jsmith (i=jsmith@nat/digium/x-265cb4ed1a6a8ee3)
14:26.29*** join/#utah moriancumer (n=jared@c-67-177-42-19.hsd1.ut.comcast.net)
14:30.16*** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@dhcp06.cs.nmsu.edu)
14:59.02*** join/#utah timinator (n=timinato@c-67-171-118-199.hsd1.ut.comcast.net)
15:00.33*** join/#utah thaddeusq (n=thaddeus@216.49.181.128)
15:10.22*** join/#utah pjw (i=pjw@nat/novell/x-9ae1307766254944)
15:21.59*** join/#utah markl_ (n=mark@c-24-10-221-6.hsd1.co.comcast.net)
15:36.35*** join/#utah redbeard2 (n=route@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com)
15:36.50elg-chat
15:36.51bracI don't want the judge should not segfault a second server has proven more difficult than a day.
15:36.59Tene-chat elg hates
15:37.00bracelg hates
15:37.05elg-chat you always
15:37.05bracyou always hit enter after typing off)
15:37.11elgoff)
15:37.15elgyou're right
15:38.38*** join/#utah pjw (i=pjw@nat/novell/x-d546e3b8fc2044fb)
15:39.00pjwAt the CTO Breakfast
15:40.38*** join/#utah dmdavis (n=dmdavis@75-169-30-107.slkc.qwest.net)
15:42.48shadowwiremorning...
15:43.02dmdavishi
15:45.34herlodamn gdm!
15:46.00elgit's all about startx ;-)
15:46.03herlogdm: greeter application crashing
15:46.09herloelg: how do you thin kI'm working now :)
15:46.19elgno gui. the only way to go ;-)
15:46.26herloelg: only on a server
15:46.27herlough!
15:48.55Tenelame
15:49.01Tenelinks/mutt ftw
15:52.14*** join/#utah fozzmoo (n=fozz@66.7.122.158)
15:52.23herlo~lart tene
15:52.23ibotthrows tene's poor little doggy off a cliff
15:52.37TeneNoooooo!
15:54.48dmdavisTene: sweet, adom is awesome
15:55.12Tenedmdavis: herlo just killed the puppy!
15:56.16TeneHmm... I wonder if the n800 terminal is large enough to play adom on.
15:56.56dmdavisI'm more worried about the terminal being too big.  the small cave is brutal when huge
15:57.23goozbachgood morning #UTAH
15:57.46goozbachthe n700 seemed ok to do nethack with
15:57.57goozbachsjansen has one?
15:57.59Tenegoozbach: adom won't start if the terminal is too small.
15:58.01TeneYeah.
15:58.22TeneHe doesn't have an n810, though, and wants one.
15:58.26goozbachI got to play with the 700 back at the dept of health
15:58.31goozbachit was NICE
16:00.26*** join/#utah fozzmoo (n=fozz@66.7.122.158)
16:01.37Tenegoozbach: n800 has a slide-out keyboard and builtin gps
16:01.42Teneerm
16:01.44Tenen810
16:01.53Tenethose are the main changes from the n800
16:03.34herloTene: the puppy lives!
16:08.16*** join/#utah neybar (n=jalance@pollux.northsky.com)
16:26.12*** join/#utah tiwula (n=lane@195.sub-166-161-154.myvzw.com)
16:37.18*** join/#utah sjansen (n=sjansen@class1-nat.gurulabs.com)
16:37.27sjansenhttp://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=the-secret-to-raising-smart-kids&print=true
16:38.33*** join/#utah TimRiker (n=timr@216.49.181.128)
16:38.33*** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ
16:40.03shadowwireWow, Im glad you put forth the effort to educate us on the mater.
16:44.47*** join/#utah bachisanerd (n=Benjamin@qwest-cc-ip196.scinternet.net)
16:46.29*** join/#utah linuxalien (n=me@oalug/member/linuxalien)
16:48.23*** join/#utah synic (n=squish@pdpc/supporter/student/synic)
16:49.19*** join/#utah synic (n=squish@pdpc/supporter/student/synic)
16:50.49shadowwire~greet everyone
16:50.50ibotACTION dumps a bucket of cold oatmeal on everyone
16:51.06shadowwireThats not what i meant.
16:51.15linuxalienhehe
16:55.35shadowwireI dont believe in time dialation.
16:55.45shadowwireI believe in space dialation.
16:56.58linuxalienI only believe in the Beatles
16:58.05shadowwireO
16:59.21shadowwireSorry thats a lie. I know what the experiments have shown, I just think it must mean something else.
16:59.35shadowwireSo, No space dialtion either.
17:01.10linuxalienScience is cool. Too bad it can't get me a date. :P
17:01.22*** join/#utah pelaofeliz (n=PelaoFel@67.108.236.230)
17:01.24shadowwireHow old are you?
17:02.06linuxalien36 :P
17:02.10linuxalienI'm kidding too
17:02.14linuxalienhaha
17:02.17shadowwireComputer science might not be able to get you a date, But astronemy can!
17:02.29linuxalienYeah, definitely. I've been to star parties. Lots of cute women
17:02.44linuxalienWell, when it's not too cold or when not a lot of mosquitos are around
17:03.02shadowwireI had more dates in college to go star gazeing than anything else.
17:03.21elg"star" gazing
17:03.26shadowwireAstronemy was the hardest class to get into.
17:03.32shadowwirewell...
17:04.36elg"the stars are up here"
17:06.52linuxalienI haven't taken an astronomy class yet
17:06.57linuxalienBut my brother is a physics major
17:07.04linuxalienand has a pretty decent telescope
17:07.11linuxalienplus I bought the Starry Night software
17:07.20shadowwireThats awsome.  Ask him how he feels about space dialtion?
17:07.29linuxalienOk, I'll have to do that
17:07.40linuxalienWe're both in the Ogden Astronomical Society. I'm behind on my dues though. haha
17:07.44shadowwireMy daughter loves the stary night program.
17:07.47linuxalienI gotta pay mine
17:08.00linuxalienI've got a really inexpensive one. I think it cost me $15 at Clark Planetarium
17:08.01^Migs^Ogden Astronomical Society?
17:08.06linuxalienI did find out my birth star with it
17:08.18linuxalienYeah, they're based in Weber State ^Migs^
17:08.22shadowwireBirth star?
17:08.23^Migs^how does Starry Night compare to stuff like Celestia or Stellarium?
17:08.34shadowwireI havent used either of those.
17:08.36linuxalien^Migs^, more average person friendly
17:08.47linuxalien^Migs^, plus links to space news
17:08.51^Migs^cool!
17:09.05^Migs^Linux?
17:09.09linuxalienshadowwire, everyone has a birth star kinda like a birth stone
17:09.21linuxalien^Migs^, not as far as I know. Mine only supports windows and mac os x
17:09.27linuxalienMaybe in wine?
17:09.39^Migs^hmmm
17:09.56^Migs^do you think students would find it useful?
17:10.08^Migs^how many stars does it have?
17:10.15elgfive bazillion
17:10.17linuxalienYeah, it has guided tours and stuff and updates itself when you launch
17:10.23linuxalienlemme start mine up
17:10.37linuxalienI have Starry Night Sky Explorer
17:11.56bachisanerdStarry Night came with my astronomy book
17:12.00bachisanerdIt's fun stuff
17:12.16linuxalienIt also has guided tours and shopping links for binoculars and scopes
17:12.33bachisanerdIf you have a Palm Device check out Planetarium
17:12.36linuxalienA think for upcoming celestial events
17:12.42linuxalienthing*
17:12.47linuxalienYeah, I remember that
17:12.49linuxalienit was cool
17:12.49bachisanerdIt was helpful for when I worked at the SUU observatory
17:12.56linuxalienI lost my palm though hehe
17:13.28linuxalienYou can export images
17:14.53linuxalienwow, I checked out the help and it comes with an ebook
17:14.56linuxalienin PDF format
17:15.05linuxalienI dunno where to look to see how many stars though
17:17.50linuxalienhttp://www.starrynightsupport.com/support_trio/index.php?action=kb&article=167
17:17.52brac[Starry Night Support Center - KnowledgeBase - Where does the star data in Starry Night come from?]
17:18.03linuxalienLooks like if you get the CD you get 16 million stars
17:18.12linuxalienotherwise you get 35,000 if you do the digital download
17:18.26linuxalienI bought a CD but not sure if mine has the 16 million or if that's one of the more expensive ones
17:19.26linuxalienHmmm their site doesn't list starry night sky explorer so not sure
17:19.35linuxalienI wonder if it's old or if it's only for planetariums
17:20.47rsimpkinsbachisanerd: Can the amature achieve an 'observatory' quality experience, or is it on a totally different level?
17:28.47bachisanerdrsimpkins:  our presentation was for the general community member
17:28.59bachisanerdas amateur as it needs to be
17:29.12bachisanerdor as advanced as the observatory tech can make it
17:29.26bachisanerdwe did lots of cub scout groups
17:29.51*** join/#utah pjw (i=pjw@nat/novell/x-f9791589eb42d300)
17:38.42*** part/#utah bachisanerd (n=Benjamin@qwest-cc-ip196.scinternet.net)
17:45.47*** join/#utah bachisanerd (n=bach@qwest-cc-ip196.scinternet.net)
17:53.05*** join/#utah thaddeusq (n=thaddeus@216.49.181.128)
18:01.34linuxalienclass time
18:01.34linuxalienlater
18:05.08*** join/#utah pjw (n=pjw@209.41.75.183)
18:06.51*** part/#utah bachisanerd (n=bach@qwest-cc-ip196.scinternet.net)
18:18.19*** join/#utah kreg (n=kreg@208.98.188.95)
18:25.56*** join/#utah findlay-w (n=justin@gocastlerock.com)
18:25.56bracget back in a lot less work during spring/summer
18:31.51maquis-chat
18:31.53bracNo... it's not iptables
18:31.56maquis-chat
18:31.57bracI don't normally like MMOs either, but based on email?
18:32.02maquis-chat
18:32.02bracyes, it does
18:32.04maquis-chat
18:32.04bracif you prefer
18:32.06maquis-chat
18:32.08bracAll netbios networking is next week so I'll reconnect in a way to check the timestamp is in good with spelling
19:07.25*** join/#utah hatul30 (i=hatul30@gateway/tor/x-8241c2987cb2b57f)
19:20.45shadowwire-chat maqis
19:20.45bracmaqis was
19:31.33maquis-chat maquis
19:31.33bracmaquis had
19:31.35maquis-chat maquis
19:31.36bracmaquis was a pretty smart guy, and has a buffer
19:31.39maquisuh
19:31.41maquis-chat maquis
19:31.41bracmaquis is looking at bringing replacement cards to refil his subway card :)
19:31.44Tene-chat tene
19:31.44bractene did
19:31.46Tene-chat tene
19:31.46maquis-chat maquis
19:31.47bracmaquis was a little nervous about it if you have to do much better then the winner between me and tried to install monodevelop
19:31.47bractene is trying to manipulate the "filename" or identifier?
19:33.05goozbach~goozbach
19:33.06ibotyou are, like, a future que-ball. easier to catch than a retarted sasquatch
19:33.16goozbachgoozbach is also married now
19:33.26goozbach~goozbach is also married now
19:33.27ibotACTION burns down is also married now's house with an army of flaming Elmos.
19:34.12goozbachhey now
19:47.10*** join/#utah thaddeusq (n=thaddeus@216.49.181.128)
19:47.10*** join/#utah markl_ (n=mark@c-24-10-221-6.hsd1.co.comcast.net)
19:47.10*** join/#utah shadowwire (n=shadowwi@209-253-33-218.ip.mcleodusa.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
19:47.10*** join/#utah maquis (n=maquis@c-24-17-72-165.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
19:47.10*** join/#utah peno (i=peno@peno.com)
19:47.10*** join/#utah brac (i=fugalh@falcon.fugal.net)
19:49.17*** join/#utah thaddeusq (n=thaddeus@216.49.181.128)
19:54.51*** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@216.31.27.110)
20:04.23SargunAnyone know where you can buy census data?
20:07.17herloSargun: census bureau
20:07.19*** join/#utah Lakshmi (n=chatzill@66-240-24-41.isp.comcastbusiness.net)
20:15.21nick125hmm.
20:21.51nick125ugh, lighttpd doesn't seem to follow symbolic links by default
20:22.38nick125Or rather, symbolic links don't show up in the dir index
20:28.16rsimpkinsOkay, who doesn't have a profile on PLUG so I can twist yur arm and make you get one? :)
20:29.57TeneMe, I think?
20:30.00TeneGo find out.
20:30.27nick125Anyone here know of a way to make TightVNC on win32 bind alt-tab?
20:30.27*** join/#utah Lakshmi (n=chatzill@66-240-27-39.isp.comcastbusiness.net)
20:30.28Lakshmihey
20:30.33Lakshmiya'll im back
20:30.39Lakshmiibot miss me
20:30.40ibotACTION whips a six shooter from her hip and fires just to the right of lakshmi.
20:30.41Lakshmi.?
20:31.07Lakshminot that kinda miss
20:31.14Lakshmi~ smack ibot
20:31.15ibotACTION smacks ibot upside the head.
20:31.25Lakshmi~fix ibot
20:31.26ibotACTION opens the hood of ibot , looks inside and says "that'll be 500 dollars."
20:31.32Lakshmi~speak ibot
20:42.13*** join/#utah pjw (n=pjw@m4c0f36d0.tmodns.net)
20:49.35*** join/#utah macnewbold (n=mac@166-70-178-126.ip.xmission.com)
20:50.49*** join/#utah macnewbol1 (n=mac@166-70-178-126.ip.xmission.com)
21:06.09sontekanyone know of any tech support/entry level system administration positions available? My friend Devin just moved here and is looking to gain some real world exp
21:07.26^Migs^didn't you ask this recently?
21:07.35^Migs^tell him to look on dice and monster
21:07.46^Migs^Devin needs to stop being lazy and find a job himself
21:08.03*** join/#utah tiwula (n=lane@208.64.90.18.static.utahbroadband.com)
21:10.43sontek^Migs^: yeah, I posted on sllug
21:11.20sontek^Migs^: hes looking, but I figured with the amount of people in here, someone has to have a job opening =)
21:16.00goozbachsontek: Guru may still be hiring :)
21:17.13^Migs^this is assuming that enough of us actually live in Utah
21:17.29maquis^Migs^: or maybe devin understands that networking is the essential skill in finding a job
21:18.18^Migs^I'm still going on with Devin/lazy hypothesis
21:18.39^Migs^s/going on with/going with my/
21:18.41jsmithsontek: Omniture is usually looking for entry level people to man their Network Operations Center
21:19.31rsimpkinssontek: PLUG has a list of local comapnies that use Linux. It might be good to start there and hit the sites to check for openings.
21:20.02^Migs^universities can always use lab assistants
21:20.24shadowwireHow is Linux for copying DVDs?
21:21.10mrpullshadowwire: isn't that against the law ;-)
21:21.14mrpull?
21:21.33rsimpkinsI belive it violates the DMCA.
21:21.40shadowwireI mean for personal backup....  ahhem..
21:21.46rsimpkinsIt is the circumvention of a copyright device. Sorry.
21:21.48maquisshadowwire: it still violates the DMCA
21:21.50maquis:(
21:22.06mrpullthe DMCA doesn't allow for personal backups either if the discs are encrypted
21:22.08rsimpkinsBut yes, of course there is stuff that works. :)
21:22.32shadowwireOk...   So how is Linux for copying DVDs?
21:22.39mrpullanyone with a three year old that found his favorite dvd deserves a legal backup
21:22.50rsimpkinsThe media company makes money every time you buy media, so it is their goal to change formats and media as often as they can get the industry to accept it.
21:22.50neybaramen
21:22.52mrpullI usually use windows to rip dvd's to upload to my tivo
21:22.59rsimpkinsThey should have stayed with vinal.
21:23.00mrpullso I'm no help
21:23.11shadowwirehmmm.
21:23.11mrpullsorry for derailing the conversation
21:23.17mrpullbut it is #utah tradition
21:23.32shadowwireSure, mention the "W" word.
21:23.46rsimpkinsshadowwire: Have you dug around freshmeat yet?
21:24.46shadowwirenegative.
21:25.07shadowwireWhats freshmeat?
21:25.14nick125I usually use dvdrip to rip DVDs
21:25.17nick125http://www.exit1.org/dvdrip/
21:25.23mrpullshadowwire: are you a gtk or qt (or neither) guy?
21:26.13rsimpkinsshadowwire: freshmeat.net
21:26.36rsimpkinsIf you ever need to answer the question: "I need a FOSS program that does _____" freshmeat should be your first stop.
21:26.38shadowwiremrpull gtk
21:27.00shadowwirethanks. Im checking it out now.
21:27.30nick125Freshmeat, Sourceforge, and Google ;-)
21:27.30nick125bbl
21:27.30mrpullyears ago I remember thinking freshmeat sounded like a site to be avoided :)
21:27.45shadowwireyea :)
21:29.02rsimpkinsI like this song by The Eighteenth Day of May called "The highest Tree" for some reason. Catchy hook I guess.
21:51.22tensaielg: man, you really lost me with your cherry picking email
21:56.14sontekI can't read that much
21:58.05elgtensai: oops :) I'm going to blog it and I'll try to be more careful then
21:58.23Teneelg: I liked your cherry-picking email, and I forwarded it to a few friends.
21:58.40elgi know it took me a few thinking sessions to figure out why quilt was different from a regular VCS and when to use it
21:59.37elgso what's the modern best practice for automatic network configuration? I have a usb network device (zaurus cradle). When I stick the zaurus in the cradle, I want it to automatically configure the network
21:59.48elgis it udev or something else? debian
21:59.56TeneNetworkManager
22:00.05elgisn't that a gui prog?
22:00.07elgthis is a headless box
22:00.16TeneIt's not.
22:00.20TeneThere's a gui frontend.
22:00.22sonteknetworkmanager is a service, there are gnome/kde gui apps on top of it
22:00.32sontekyou just talk to it via dbus
22:00.33TeneI wish there was a decent cli interface
22:00.37elgok, i'll take a look
22:01.53elgso someone explain to me what dbus and hal are
22:02.04*** join/#utah Supaplex (i=supaplex@166-70-62-194.ip.xmission.com)
22:02.04brac~lart did
22:02.05ibottakes out a cattle prod and gives did a good jolt
22:02.16elg~rlart
22:02.16ibotgrabs a large, mis-shapened log, with squirrels, and beats goozbach until only the nuts remain ... which the squirrels run off with
22:04.10Supaplex~seen fungus
22:04.13ibotfungus <n=olsonl@2001:5c0:8fff:fffe:0:0:0:1647> was last seen on IRC in channel #uphpu, 1d 19m 14s ago, saying: 'IIRC the enum type only stores the index of the value in the table itself, hence using very little storage'.
22:06.49sontekelg: hal is for providing device information for integrating with applications, dubs is for sending messages between apps
22:07.04sonteks/dubs/dbus/
22:08.31tensaishadowwire: I second dvdrip. I've never used it to make actual dvds, just vcds and avis. works great though and it's saved a few discs of mine from peanut buttery hands.
22:12.41Tenesontek: awesome.
22:13.47sontekdamn, I lose
22:13.52Teneeh?
22:13.53sontekhttp://network-manager-cli.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/nm-cli.py
22:14.14TeneYou should have just given me that tomorrow with your name in the comments.
22:14.18TeneSo I would buy you lunch.
22:14.44sontekcan I get lunch if I add ncurses support?
22:14.52TeneYes.
22:14.56TeneHow many lunches?
22:15.11sontek1 if its good, 2 if its fast food!
22:15.33TeneSure!
22:15.48elgsontek: so hal tells me everything I need to know about a device if I ask it?
22:16.13Teneelg: run hal-device
22:16.16sontekelg: yeah
22:16.22elgdbus is just a bus where everyone watches the messages zinging by?
22:16.42TeneKinda.
22:16.55TeneYou register a name on the bus.
22:16.56elgso maybe when a device is plugged in, udev or something sends a message on dbus and then nautilus or whatever uses hal to get the info on it?
22:16.56Teneoslt
22:17.01Teneright
22:17.04elgso it's an observer sort of thing
22:17.17TeneYeah, you say w D;h#D;at kind of messages you're interested in recieving.
22:17.18elgyou register for a name, or you register a name and wait for people to come to you?
22:17.28elgI say what? :)
22:17.29Tenedepends on whether you're a provider or consumer.
22:17.52Teneelg: "w D;h#D;at" obviously
22:19.31elgis there, perchance, a generic network protocol for dbus? say I want to use dbus for a daemon, but I'd also like to be able to send messages to it from my laptop
22:20.43TeneSo, does anyone really use those weird arm bands for mp3 players?
22:20.48TeneI've never seen a real person use them... only in commercials.
22:21.51maquisi've seen a few people use them while running
22:21.54maquisbut it's kinda rare
22:22.03sontekTene: I've seen a lot of people at the gym using them
22:22.18TeneHuh.
22:22.18sontekTene: there is a plugin for banshee that will take the data from the nike band :P
22:22.27leviHeh, it's the goal of Randal Schwartz for 2008 to make Smalltalk have more blog-buzz than Ruby.
22:22.31Supaplexheadbands for little people? on your arm?
22:22.37sontekelg: theres avahi
22:22.42elgTene: i'd have to be doing something silly like running without pockets to use one
22:22.45Tenelevi: not surprised.
22:23.19elglevi: a formidable goal. think he has a chance?
22:24.12elgno, not zeroconf stuff. I just want a network extension to the bus if you will
22:24.24levielg: Well, he's been working with Leo Laporte to do lots of Smalltalk-related stuff on the twit network.
22:24.27TeneWhat is smalltalk good for?  I've looked into it a few times... never really found anything interesting.
22:24.28elgbecause if I have to write a network protocol for my daemon anyway, what's the point of using dbus?
22:24.57Teneelg: I've seen a script to encapsulate it in an ssh tunnel or something of the sort before...
22:25.55leviTene: It's good for programming, has lots of educational stuff built with it via Squeak, has distributed virtual environment stuff via Croquet, has excellent web app development tools via Seaside, generally has sophisticated development tools, etc.
22:26.40TeneI remember something weird about it being stuck in some weird binary format that you need a special editor to use?
22:26.43leviIt has a similar object model to Ruby, but is actually mature and fast.
22:27.13elgTene: you're remembering squeak
22:27.28TeneSo smalltalk != Squeak?
22:27.30elgsqueak is serios NIH cancer. but cool
22:28.03leviTene: Smalltalk has a history of being imaged-based, meaning you do your development inside a running smalltalk virtual machine with all the classes loaded and such.
22:28.28TeneCould I just use a plain text editor instead?
22:28.29elgand I don't mean national institute of health
22:28.31leviTene: It has internal editors and stuff.  GNU Smalltalk is more file-oriented, though.
22:28.43elgTene: IOW, no
22:28.47TeneHm.
22:28.56levielg: You can always file-out and file-in, so you can use a regular editor if you want.
22:29.15leviBut that's not how Smalltalk is typically used.
22:29.15TeneEven if smalltalk was awesome, that's too awkward for me to ever really consider.
22:29.21elgthere's always ways around
22:29.28elgbut i'm with tene
22:29.41leviHeh.  Set in your ways, you guys are.
22:29.41TeneNot that I have any particular philosophical reasons for it...
22:29.50TeneYeah, that.
22:29.53elgabsolutely. and good ways to be set in.
22:30.02sontekelg: dbus itself is for messaging between applications on the local machine, not really setup for doing across the network stuff
22:30.05elgeveryone is set in their ways. I chose the best ways to be set in for a reason
22:30.05TeneI just know from experience that I won't bother with it otherwise.
22:30.14elg;-)
22:30.16TeneWhich is unfortunate.
22:30.22sontekI've heard so many good things for smalltalk, I've just never played with it
22:30.30TeneIs there a commandline-based or curses-based interpreter?
22:30.34TeneWith embedded vim? ;)
22:30.37sontekI guess it was doing what people love ruby for, 20 years ago
22:30.48leviLike I said, GNU Smalltalk is more file-oriented.
22:31.03leviYou can edit everything you want in your favorite editor.
22:31.30leviIt's less mature than Squeak or some of the others, though.
22:31.35TeneHm.
22:31.58TeneI'm very set in doing everything on the console.  I'm just so much more comfortable there.
22:32.17TeneI probably do miss out on some exciting technologies because of that.
22:32.19leviWell, sometimes reaching outside of your comfort zone is a good thing.
22:33.36elgthere's reaching out of your comfort zone, and there's every day usage
22:33.41TeneSo... you'll be programming in C++ sometime soon? ;)
22:33.44leviAnyway, I'm not going to bother advocating it to unix weenies who won't even consider doing things different.
22:33.56sontek~weenie levi
22:34.12leviTene: I program in C all the time, and I'll program in C++ as soon as I need to.
22:34.15sonteklevi: we have IDE's in Linux! pffffts
22:34.47levisontek: Yeah, but the people who use them clearly aren't 'unix weenies who won even consider doing things different'
22:34.57elgi don't play in squeak because it's not comfortable. if I had a real reason to seriously investigate smalltalk I might
22:35.05Tenelevi: I've never even worked on a Unix box!
22:35.16elgbut more than that, I see squeak as a serious disadvantage to smalltalk
22:35.38elgall that effort wasted in reinventing every wheel just so people can turn up their noses at it because it's not {Windows,UNIX}
22:35.47elgit's a waste of very smart people's effort, and it makes me sad
22:35.58levielg: What reinventions are you referring to?
22:36.08elgbut hey, I'm a smart people and if there's anything I hate it's people telling me what I should be doing with my brain, so I say more power to them :)
22:36.33elgeverything from editors to GUIs to you name it
22:37.27tensaielg: you're the smartest people I know. proof positive that childrens can learn.
22:37.46elgand I think good things will come of the smalltalk and squeak worlds. maybe really good things with global impact
22:37.58elgbut I seriously doubt squeak itself is going to ever be even close to mainstream
22:37.59levielg: Well, the guts of most of that stuff has been around for a very long time.
22:38.14levielg: It's not like it was just written up in the last few years.
22:38.19elgyes, I know
22:38.30elgsame with UNIX
22:38.34elgand even Windows
22:38.42elgthese things have momentum for a reason
22:38.44leviI think you're grasping at spurious reasons to justify your dislike of it.
22:39.12elgi don't dislike it. I think it's cool in the same sort of way that I think cell phones are cool
22:39.24elgi just don't see myself using it
22:39.41Tenelevi: I've observed your opinions and beliefs to be consistently accurate while I've known you, and if you believe that something is really cool and worth my attention, I'm interested in seeing why.
22:40.02elgtensai: thanks, I think ;-)
22:40.27leviSqueak is, essentially, its own operating environment.  When you run it, you're essentially running the OS that was on the old Xerox PARC workstations, several revisions later.
22:41.33leviThat's what it was created to do; run the old Smalltalk-80 diskpacks and be self-hosting.
22:42.00TeneSo, if you have time available, I'm interested in hearing your view on it and what you find good about it.
22:42.02leviThere were plenty of commercial Smalltalks at the time aimed at integrating with platforms like Windows.
22:43.21leviTene: Well, the 'goodness' of Smalltalk boils down to being very consistent, very flexible, and mature (i.e., decently fast).
22:44.00leviAnd part of the goodness comes from the toolset that grew around it and its image-based development.
22:44.49leviYou're developing in a live image, and you can inspect everything and change anything at will.
22:45.20TeneHmm.
22:45.28TeneWhat sort of useful things does that enable?
22:45.40maquiswho here uses last.fm?
22:45.58rsimpkinsmaquis: I've used it a time or two.
22:45.59leviPrograms that never stop running.  If a bug comes up, you interactively fix it and tell it to continue.
22:46.10maquisrsimpkins: how in the world do i tell it to give me what i'm asking for?
22:46.30maquisi told it to play songs that are tagged "christmas", and about 75% of the songs its playing aren't christmas songs
22:46.37Tenelevi: example of an application that would be great for?
22:46.43rsimpkinsmaquis: I couldn't figure it out either, hence - I stopped using it so much. The site is kind of strange.
22:46.54maquisthat's stupid
22:47.06maquisif i say i want christmas music, why is it so hard to give me christmas music?
22:47.27leviTene: Anything that needs lots of uptime.  Or anything that manifests bugs that would be difficult to isolate without an interactive debugger.
22:47.37maquislive365 will play christmas music, but every 20 minutes it disconnects me since i'm not a subscriber
22:47.43maquisand it keeps playing the same ad over and over and over again
22:47.54maquis(they only have one advertisement, and they play it every 5 minutes)
22:48.03rsimpkinsmaquis: I guess just turning the radio on to FM 100 isn't an option?
22:48.49maquisrsimpkins: A) i don't have a radio on my desk at work (and i share an office), B) i have tried a few times to find a station in seattle that plays christmas music, and haven't found one yet this year
22:48.50leviUgh, FM 100 makes me ill.
22:49.00rsimpkinslevi: :)
22:49.05maquistrying shoutcast now
22:49.37leviIt's not even December.  I hate Christmas creep.
22:49.48maquislevi: don't work retail
22:49.50maquisever
22:49.56levimaquis: Don't worry, I won't.
22:50.38thaddeusqlevi: Christmas creep when Thanksgiving is already over? What holiday are we supposed to look forward to after Thanksgiving?
22:50.40leviTene: Another cool thing about Smalltalk is that, generally, the entire smalltalk system is implemented in Smalltalk.  You can browse the source code while it's running and you're developing.
22:50.59Tenethaddeusq: satire, right?
22:51.28thaddeusqTene: nope. I'm serious. I like looking forward to Christmas after Thanksgiving.
22:51.36levithaddeusq: There are maybe 30 decent Christmas songs.  They all get REALLY old pretty fast, and the filler songs are painful to begin with.
22:51.59maquisi like christmas songs
22:51.59rsimpkinslevi: Some people just really like Christmas. It's not my favorite holidy.
22:52.00Tenelevi: so far, you've just been talking about infrastructure stuff... so you'd have the same endorsement for any language with this infrastructure?
22:52.06TeneOr is the language itself also pretty nice?
22:52.08thaddeusqlevi: I respect your opinion, I just don't agree with it.
22:52.25Tenethaddeusq: weird... it's not ever been close to that big of a deal for me, at all...
22:52.45rsimpkinsMy favorite holidy is the 4th of July.
22:52.48TeneI think about christmas maybe a week in advance, at most.
22:52.51TeneAll holidays, really.
22:53.03TeneI've never understood the big excitement about them.
22:53.06leviTene: Well, the infrastructure and the language are pretty intertwined in the case of Smalltalk.
22:53.11rsimpkinsTene: Girls.
22:53.20Tenersimpkins: huh?
22:53.25rsimpkinsTene: Girls!
22:53.27Tenelevi: howso?
22:53.39Tenersimpkins: what is the relationship between holidays and girls?
22:53.45rsimpkinsTene: You mean you don't know!?!?
22:53.52rsimpkinsTene: No wonder you don't like holidays. :)
22:54.09*** join/#utah fozzmoo (n=fozz@166-70-238-250.ip.xmission.com)
22:54.14rsimpkinslol :)
22:54.22leviTene: That's just how Smalltalk has been.  Even the versions aimed at Windows and such are image-based, mostly written in Smalltalk, have similar browsers and editors and debuggers, etc.
22:54.26maquisrsimpkins: seriously
22:54.28maquisi'm curious! :)
22:54.41maquisi've always been a fan of christmas music
22:54.53rsimpkinsmaquis: Think of every chick flick you've ever watched. How many of them have a holiday theme?
22:54.55maquisand my job currently throws christmas at us pretty well
22:55.01goozbachdr demento christmas++
22:55.04leviI love singing Christmas music on Christmas eve.  I'd rather not get sick of it before then.
22:55.13Tenelevi: so what's the language itself like?
22:55.13herlogoozbach: dr demento rocks!
22:55.23maquisrsimpkins: interesting point... although i've seen a lot that don't have a holiday theme as well :)
22:55.28fozzmooherlo: Demento polkas too.
22:55.28maquis(unless summer is a holiday)
22:55.34Tenersimpkins: what is the relationship between holidays and girls?
22:55.37herlofozzmoo: true that
22:55.48rsimpkinsTene: Find a girl and take her to a Christmas party to find out.
22:55.50leviTene: It's extremely object-oriented, in the sense that it's all about sending messages between opaque objects.
22:56.07fozzmoorsimpkins: Tene avoided Iodynamics Christmas parties, the twit.
22:56.24rsimpkinsfozzmoo: Lack of girl?
22:56.42fozzmooNo, I think there was some role playing game going on the same evening.
22:56.44Tenefozzmoo: Was I supposed to have gone?
22:56.46leviTene: It's also fairly self-documenting, since messages have named arguments.
22:56.49fozzmooSo, priorities took effect.
22:57.24Tenefozzmoo: is there one this year?
22:57.30fozzmooNope.
22:57.34fozzmooNot officially.
22:57.37shadowwireI like Christmas, however most christmas songs seem cliche.
22:57.42leviTene: It's got just enough syntax to get things done, and its syntax is clear and efficient.
22:57.47fozzmooTene: Maybe we can go to Betos when you're in town, tho and call it a xmas party.
22:57.54TeneI'd like that.
22:57.57leviI mostly like traditional Christmas songs.
22:58.06maquislevi: i'm with you on that
22:58.11maquisi don't like most of the new-fangled ones
22:58.28maquisalthough i do like some of the parody ones
22:58.32leviBlatant heart-string grabs make me want to hit things.
22:58.32maquislike christmas at ground zero
22:58.44maquisO Holy Night is my favorite currently
22:58.46^Migs^I want to write the most cliche Christmas song ever.  What would be the best approach?
22:58.54leviLike some stupid song about a kid who wants to buy boots for his mom because she might be going to Jesus tonight, or something.
22:59.06^Migs^my favorite is either Greensleeves or A Spaceman Came Travelling
22:59.19shadowwire?!?
22:59.31^Migs^hahaha
22:59.38^Migs^Christmas Shoes
22:59.40shadowwirea spaceman came traveling?  Christmas song?
22:59.42rsimpkinsGrandma Got Ranover by a Reindeer?
22:59.43^Migs^good grief, I hate that song
22:59.50^Migs^you've never heard that, shadowwire?
22:59.50shadowwireme too.
22:59.55shadowwireNope
23:00.03^Migs^I don't like the original one by whatshisface, that Lady in Red guy, but there's an awesome cover by Gregorian
23:00.05maquischiron beta prime isn't bad as a christmas song
23:00.06^Migs^just gorgeous
23:00.09^Migs^hang on, I'll stream it
23:00.18Tenefozzmoo: http://network-manager-cli.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/nm-cli.py
23:00.34leviYeah, 'Christmas Shoes' made me really mad while I was getting my haircut.
23:00.45maquiscd ../..
23:00.49*** join/#utah tristanbob (n=tristanr@oalug/member/tristanbob)
23:00.56shadowwireI hear ya Levi.
23:01.00^Migs^k
23:01.00rsimpkinsmy wife really wants to go to the christmas party. It's black-tie formal though and I'm really not much for wearing a tux.
23:01.08^Migs^shadowwire: here it is: http://205.122.40.32:8000/jreeve
23:01.31^Migs^seriously.  Christmas Shoes is the most over-the-top attempt to get people to start bawling in the middle of a song
23:01.33Tenersimpkins: you can wear the dress and she can wear the tux.
23:01.33tensaimy company party is over two large mountain passes and 250 miles away. I've never been.
23:02.03shadowwireTene: Sounds kinky.
23:02.06rsimpkinsTene: I'd rather just wear some jeans and a t-shirt.
23:02.29shadowwireA tux is to hot, and a dress too cold.
23:02.46tensaione person wear both the tux and the dress, the other goes without. that would liven up the party.
23:02.59Teneand even out the heat.
23:03.07shadowwirehmm.
23:03.24shadowwireWhats this room  rated? :)
23:03.30rsimpkinsI need to find one of those tux t-shirt things and wear it with some black jeans. That'd probably work.
23:03.33^Migs^X, for X-TREMELY COOL
23:03.47herloG, for God Awful!
23:04.16shadowwireR, for Violence?
23:04.19^Migs^PG for Painfully God Awful
23:04.44shadowwiredoesnt make much sense.
23:05.27shadowwireNC-17, for Nobody Cares for the past 17 years.
23:05.34^Migs^hahaha
23:05.38^Migs^I was trying to think of something for NC-17
23:05.41^Migs^that's a good one
23:06.18shadowwireXX for Sexy Xenophobes?
23:06.41^Migs^that could easily describe ALL of us
23:06.45maquisurgh!!! stupid symlinks!!!!!!
23:07.00maquiscd ..; ls should not have a different result from ls ..
23:07.08Tenemaquis: readlink -r ?
23:07.49shadowwireMigs: your afraid of aliens?
23:08.32shadowwireIm not afraid of all aliens, Just the ones who abducted me.
23:08.41^Migs^not aliens with star-of-Bethlehem-shaped spaceships that travel millions of light years to appear to shepherds in a field
23:09.08shadowwireYou should sell that one to Fox.
23:09.16^Migs^didn't you listen to the song?
23:09.41^Migs^what the heck, I set up the audio stream just for you
23:09.44shadowwireum. Still downloading.  33.7KB/Sec
23:09.48^Migs^uh
23:09.55^Migs^use a Media Player
23:09.57^Migs^it's not a web page
23:10.11shadowwireCan I not save it first?
23:10.18^Migs^no, it's a stream
23:10.43shadowwireOh...            I feel...   Um....
23:10.54^Migs^hahaha
23:11.36^Migs^I gotta go, but I'll put it on a continuous loop
23:12.04shadowwireoh crap.
23:44.25*** join/#utah tristanbob_ (n=tristanb@oalug/member/tristanbob)
23:45.10pelaofelizHas anybody implemented PCI Data Security Standards compliance?
23:45.32*** join/#utah tristanbob_ (n=tristanb@oalug/member/tristanbob)
23:46.06pelaofelizOne of the requirements is to log all root activity on a server, and make the audit logs read-only
23:46.54pelaofelizI've come up with a few ideas, but nothing simple and effective
23:49.37*** join/#utah dmdavis_ (n=dmdavis@75-169-30-107.slkc.qwest.net)
23:49.54pelaofelizAny thoughts?
23:50.17tensaisounds like a job for selinux
23:50.51tensaiI've never actually *used* selinux though, so I could be wrong
23:52.09pelaofelizthat's a good place to start, at least
23:52.11pelaofelizthanks
23:55.58TeneYeah, if you need to restrict the activities of root... selinux.

Generated by irclog2html.pl Modified by Tim Riker to work with infobot.