| 00:00.03 | dmdavis | I thought everything was far away out west. You can drive through 5 states in the east in the time it takes you to drive through one here |
| 00:00.56 | levi | Well, it feels like a long time to be sitting in a car, but 1) smoke doesn't drive a car on the roads and 2) you're going about your normal routine, so time goes quickly. |
| 00:01.21 | levi | And those fires have been burning for what, weeks now? |
| 00:01.26 | dmdavis | true |
| 00:01.52 | levi | The smoke got here a day or two after the fires started. |
| 00:02.03 | findlay | http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&hl=en&geocode=&time=&date=&ttype=&saddr=provo+utah&daddr=los+angeles&sll=36.88606,-114.89946&sspn=6.58861,12.645264&ie=UTF8&ll=37.142803,-114.949951&spn=6.566638,12.645264&z=7&om=1 |
| 00:05.48 | findlay | what is so attractive about a flatulating motorcycle? |
| 00:06.23 | levi | I have no idea. |
| 00:06.52 | findlay | these dudes prowl down the street in their super loud choppers like with an evident expression of smugness |
| 00:07.17 | findlay | like there's something enviable about their transportation device |
| 00:08.12 | findlay | levi: yeah, the smoke has seemed to have pooled in our high valleys |
| 00:08.20 | findlay | s/has // |
| 00:08.27 | levi | We're in an inversion, I think. |
| 00:08.33 | findlay | that too |
| 00:08.38 | levi | So a lot of it is our own pollution, too. |
| 00:08.43 | findlay | yeah |
| 00:09.02 | findlay | ibot: Utah means inversion |
| 00:17.38 | *** part/#utah memilyrae (n=memilyra@sshaw.fttp.xmission.com) |
| 00:23.52 | levi | Here's what our local region looks like today: http://eosdb.ssec.wisc.edu/modisdirect/aqua/calibratedImages/2007/313/2007-11-09_2044-2050_USSW_010403_HKM.jpg |
| 00:24.33 | levi | Can't really tell smoke from clouds. The smoke is probably dispersed enough to not show up. |
| 00:26.37 | levi | Here, on Oct 26, you can clearly see how far the smoke had gotten: http://eosdb.ssec.wisc.edu/modisdirect/aqua/calibratedImages/2007/299/2007-10-26_2030-2038_USSW_010403_HKM.jpg |
| 00:34.42 | *** part/#utah pelaofeliz (n=PelaoFel@67.108.236.230) |
| 00:47.15 | findlay | no fair |
| 00:47.18 | findlay | I want a date |
| 00:47.21 | findlay | a cute one |
| 01:07.56 | rsimpkins | findlay: Something wrong with your web server? |
| 01:11.18 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@216.31.27.110) |
| 01:31.35 | sontek | findlay: start a myspace profile! |
| 01:35.46 | *** join/#utah dave_au (n=dave@202-89-175-170.static.dsl.amnet.net.au) |
| 01:35.54 | dave_au | hey all |
| 01:38.47 | dave_au | hmm. 6:30pm. some of you guys should be awake |
| 01:39.04 | Supaplex | awake, yes. lively? no. |
| 01:39.24 | Supaplex | it's friday night in utah. where's my cute date that findlay stole? |
| 01:39.27 | dave_au | heh, fair enough |
| 01:39.55 | dave_au | i'm in the future, my friday night was good |
| 01:40.37 | Supaplex | that's good :) |
| 01:41.17 | dave_au | so, down to business... who here knows anything about grub, and booting to raid5 ? |
| 01:55.23 | *** join/#utah Lakshmi (n=Lakshmi@unaffiliated/lakshmi) |
| 01:55.26 | Lakshmi | hi |
| 01:55.33 | Lakshmi | you know what ? |
| 01:55.38 | dave_au | what? |
| 01:55.55 | Lakshmi | im a real idiot for actually believing that a person can change |
| 01:57.04 | dave_au | depends what you want to change i guess |
| 01:57.20 | *** join/#utah nick125_treo (n=upirc@102.sub-75-211-1.myvzw.com) |
| 02:01.25 | Supaplex | or if it's you or them |
| 02:16.03 | dave_au | to further my raid5/grub question: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=3740787 |
| 02:23.48 | elg | like, if she wanted that person to change his grub config it could probably happen |
| 02:24.10 | elg | or maybe she was expecting ibot to say something different |
| 02:24.28 | elg | ~onjoin Lakshmi <reply>I've changed. |
| 02:24.28 | ibot | elg: ok |
| 02:27.20 | Supaplex | if anyone has spare rackspace to sublease, let me know |
| 02:39.48 | *** join/#utah Lakshmi (n=Lakshmi@75-25-129-78.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 02:41.38 | Supaplex | so have I. I've metabolized stuff that was previously not. Imagine that! |
| 02:47.48 | *** join/#utah bbeatti1 (n=media@65.48.77.206) |
| 02:51.20 | *** join/#utah TimRiker (n=timr@rikers.org) |
| 02:51.20 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 03:18.53 | levi | Hmm, takes a little bit to get to used to using my iBook again after the ThinkPad I've been using. |
| 03:49.21 | sontek | http://xkcd.com/340/ |
| 03:54.55 | nick125 | Anyone here experienced with Python unit testing? |
| 03:57.25 | Supaplex | not it |
| 04:02.09 | sontek | nick125: did you not go to upyug yesterday?! |
| 04:02.16 | sontek | it was all on unit testing =) |
| 04:03.19 | nick125 | It's pretty far away ;-) |
| 04:09.34 | sontek | slacker! |
| 04:11.44 | *** join/#utah dmdavis (n=dmdavis@72.8.117.60) |
| 04:14.01 | sontek | I like python, but I only use it when someone submits a bug for my trac plugin :P |
| 04:15.36 | nick125 | I really want to write some unit tests for my application, as it's something important and I need to make sure it doesn't break. |
| 04:15.48 | nick125 | (Because if it breaks, I have to go out to 15 win32 boxes and install the update) |
| 04:16.00 | nick125 | (Not to mention I'd get some nasty glares) |
| 04:17.02 | *** join/#utah pjw (n=pjw@72.8.80.15) |
| 04:18.01 | nick125 | The main thing that I'm unsure about with unit tests is that my application is hooked to a database. |
| 04:19.18 | dmdavis | could you clone the database, and have a test one? |
| 04:19.54 | dmdavis | we have a test database with a web app that I work on, and the test machine is configured to use it while the live machines are configured to use the real db |
| 04:20.16 | sontek | nick125: testing databases is kind of weird, what I usually do is create a test db and then have some sql scripts that my Setup does to populate the db |
| 04:20.24 | sontek | and then teardown cleans it all up for the next test |
| 04:20.45 | nick125 | Well, it doesn't add any data (except "authentication tokens") to the database. |
| 04:21.15 | sontek | the other option is if you have factored the code out in an mvc style, you could use a mock object in place of your data object, so as long as you know your orm/sql scripts are valid, all you'll have to worry about is the logic that uses the data the comes back |
| 04:21.17 | dmdavis | so what are you unsure about with the database? |
| 04:21.58 | nick125 | dmdavis: Well, in the case of using doctests, I'm not sure what object ID 1 is going to return, for example. |
| 04:22.24 | *** join/#utah mrpull-lt (n=Jake@mail.pollmann.us) |
| 04:22.40 | sontek | why not? |
| 04:23.01 | nick125 | Since it's in the database, which may change. |
| 04:23.23 | sontek | nick125: you don't use a live db during your tests, create a test database, that has static data |
| 04:23.38 | sontek | nick125: and do what I said about populating the data on setup and cleaning it up on teardown |
| 04:23.46 | sontek | that way you always have valid data to test from |
| 04:24.18 | nick125 | mmm....I do have a script for generating the databases, I guess I could modify that for unit test purposes. |
| 04:24.25 | dmdavis | you should have a script to build the database, that deletes and recreates tables and such. just have it fill with data when testing, too |
| 04:25.15 | nick125 | I guess I should make my configuration file system a bit more...flexible |
| 04:25.41 | nick125 | Right now, the configuration file has the path to the databases (since they are flat file DBs), and the path to the config is hard-coded. |
| 04:59.29 | *** join/#utah Sargun (n=Sargun@atarack/staff/sargun) |
| 05:01.58 | *** part/#utah dmdavis (n=dmdavis@72.8.117.60) |
| 05:04.07 | nick125 | sontek: sup? |
| 05:04.09 | nick125 | er |
| 05:04.11 | nick125 | Sargun: sup? |
| 05:04.25 | nick125 | Why must you always fail me, tab complete? |
| 05:07.19 | Sargun | We need to kick sontek |
| 05:08.48 | Supaplex | yes that's the solution |
| 05:09.20 | Supaplex | tab complete would work eaiser if you just assigned Sargun his own key. |
| 05:09.55 | Sargun | and Supaplex |
| 05:10.00 | Sargun | synic too. |
| 05:10.06 | Sargun | why not just kill them |
| 05:10.12 | Sargun | and Perakline htem |
| 05:10.13 | Sargun | them |
| 05:10.27 | \Supaplex | ;) |
| 05:10.33 | Sargun | good boy. |
| 05:10.43 | \Supaplex | now i'm a Supaplex reference. |
| 05:11.00 | \Supaplex | or Suparef for short |
| 05:11.44 | Sargun | suparef? |
| 05:11.53 | Sargun | Do you get a highlight |
| 05:11.59 | \Supaplex | perl extensions |
| 05:13.24 | Sargun | of IRSS? |
| 05:20.45 | nick123 | :O |
| 05:21.41 | nick12S | :O |
| 05:22.21 | nick123 | Now i'm confused! |
| 05:23.12 | nick12S | Sargun: look at these clone clowns |
| 05:24.13 | Sargun | nick12S is the real nick125 |
| 05:24.33 | nickl25 | will the real nick125 please tand up. |
| 05:24.54 | nickl25 | s/tand/stand/ |
| 05:25.51 | nick1337 | yayz |
| 05:26.20 | sontek | ok we are bored eh? |
| 05:27.11 | sontek | I like being nick |
| 05:27.16 | sontek | he gets all the ladies |
| 05:29.06 | findlay | yeah, no fair |
| 05:32.24 | *** join/#utah klys_ (n=admini@72.8.125.9) |
| 05:36.21 | findlay | heh |
| 05:47.45 | *** join/#utah sargun-palm (n=upirc@70.0.99.111) |
| 05:47.55 | nick125 | sargun-palm: hiya |
| 05:47.56 | sargun-palm | nick |
| 05:48.01 | fozzmoo | NICK |
| 05:48.04 | sargun-palm | pm me |
| 05:48.13 | fozzmoo | sargun-palm: pm yourself. |
| 05:50.35 | sargun-palm | fozmoo pm.. someone |
| 05:53.25 | sargun-palm | god, I love my treo. |
| 05:54.00 | sargun-palm | ~ping |
| 05:54.11 | ibot | pong |
| 05:54.11 | *** part/#utah sargun-palm (n=upirc@70.0.99.111) |
| 05:54.14 | fozzmoo | heh. |
| 05:54.58 | *** join/#utah sargun-palm (n=upirc@70.0.99.111) |
| 05:55.02 | sargun-palm | hey |
| 05:56.50 | sargun-palm | sup |
| 05:56.56 | Supaplex | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:57.44 | sargun-palm | cool |
| 05:59.29 | levi | I just went in with my mom on a really cool home theater audio system for my dad to replace his old, broken Bose system. |
| 05:59.38 | levi | I'm now jealous. |
| 06:00.48 | fozzmoo | levi: Heh. I wish my dad wanted a home theater system. |
| 06:02.30 | levi | We got him an Harman Kardon AVR 347 receiver and an Infinity TSS-1200 speaker system. |
| 06:07.05 | levi | It's got a 12" powered sub with a 250W amp. |
| 06:11.04 | fozzmoo | Whoa. |
| 06:11.06 | fozzmoo | Wow. |
| 06:11.28 | fozzmoo | levi: I think I'll be talking to you when I'm ready to outfit the new theater in my basement. |
| 06:11.37 | levi | Heh. :) |
| 06:12.02 | levi | My really nice discount price is only for immediate family, though. I can get nice deals for friends, just not quite /that/ nice. |
| 06:12.25 | fozzmoo | Either way... you can tell me what's good. |
| 06:12.38 | fozzmoo | My JVC receiver is pretty nice for 1999 or so. |
| 06:12.56 | fozzmoo | But I think my speakers are only so-so. |
| 06:12.58 | levi | I think my current one is a JVC, too. It was... cheap. |
| 06:13.06 | levi | And my current speakers are crap. |
| 06:13.09 | fozzmoo | Awh. |
| 06:13.21 | herlo | fozzmoo: thought you might enjoy this post |
| 06:13.23 | levi | They're KLHs or something. |
| 06:13.25 | herlo | http://fedora-tutorials.com/2007/11/09/funny-man-page-for-rsyslogd/ |
| 06:13.35 | fozzmoo | levi: Yeah- Mine are AudioSource. Same tier, I think. |
| 06:13.50 | fozzmoo | herlo: I turned off rsyslogg today... didn't know what it was. |
| 06:13.51 | fozzmoo | heh heh. |
| 06:14.02 | fozzmoo | WTF: Nothing's getting written to /var/log/messages! |
| 06:14.35 | herlo | fozzmoo: rsyslog is the replacement for syslogd |
| 06:14.41 | herlo | fozzmoo: don't turn it off... |
| 06:14.46 | herlo | :) |
| 06:16.19 | fozzmoo | It's about time. |
| 06:16.25 | fozzmoo | syslog-ng is nice too. |
| 06:16.36 | fozzmoo | Maybe Fedora 9 will get rid of /sbin/init. :) |
| 06:17.37 | levi | Apparently KLH was a good brand... back in the 50s. |
| 06:17.37 | fozzmoo | hee hee |
| 06:17.51 | fozzmoo | So was RCA and Zenith. :) |
| 06:18.45 | Supaplex | I like my klh R7000 |
| 06:19.48 | herlo | fozzmoo: doubt init is going anywhere in fedora |
| 06:21.32 | herlo | fozzmoo: whats so great about upstart |
| 06:23.09 | fozzmoo | herlo: I'm not real familiar with the alternatives to init... |
| 06:23.20 | fozzmoo | but init is... antiquated. |
| 06:24.13 | herlo | fozzmoo: could be, but I don't see the value in replacing it. There's nothing wrong with its way of doing things. Upstart seems to be event driven, which to me makes some sense, but that's all I can tell... |
| 06:24.27 | herlo | Upstart causes a whole new learning curve |
| 06:24.36 | herlo | fozzmoo: agreed, bed time! |
| 06:24.56 | Supaplex | I guess I'm lucky my klh r7000 hasn't burnt itself out. |
| 06:26.45 | levi | Here we go... this is what I've got now: http://www.amazon.com/KLH-HTA-9006-Home-Theater-Speaker-System/dp/B000021YTK |
| 06:28.01 | levi | They're actually pretty good, considering the price. |
| 06:28.16 | levi | Much better for movies than for music, though. |
| 06:33.43 | findlay | herlo: there's plenty wrong with init |
| 06:33.50 | findlay | it's *slow* |
| 06:34.12 | Supaplex | it doesn't fetch my paper in the morning |
| 06:34.18 | findlay | and resource wasteful |
| 06:34.54 | findlay | silly herlo went to bed when I wanted to stay up and argue |
| 06:42.21 | herlo | findlay: I'm not in bed |
| 06:42.29 | herlo | findlay: but you have to give me more than *slow* |
| 06:43.53 | findlay | herlo: don't you ever spend time waiting for your laptop to boot up? |
| 06:43.58 | findlay | is that not compelling? |
| 06:44.45 | findlay | I suppose a computer booting up as we now know it may not be able to be much faster, but still the way things are currently done is rather slow |
| 06:45.23 | findlay | do initscripts really need a whole set of bash processes? |
| 06:46.03 | findlay | this has been the eveningtide ramblement of findlay |
| 06:46.41 | herlo | sdfsdf~. |
| 06:46.59 | findlay | join us tomorrow when findlay talks about ice sculpting and the quality of average walmart merchandise |
| 06:47.42 | findlay | ok, herlo, give me what you've got |
| 06:47.44 | herlo | findlay: I get that it seems inefficient, but I value my SysV processes. Why is event driven better? |
| 06:48.21 | findlay | herlo: I'm not arguing for event-init but rather for speed |
| 06:48.31 | findlay | like caching, not using bash, etc. |
| 06:48.52 | herlo | findlay: but upstart is event driven to eliminate SYSV processes from what I can see. |
| 06:48.58 | findlay | caching makes lots of sense for init |
| 06:49.06 | herlo | findlay: instead of bash, what would you use? |
| 06:49.12 | herlo | caching what? |
| 06:49.12 | Supaplex | oh sure, blame init for all the shell scripts that could use & better. |
| 06:49.47 | Tene | herlo: what do you value about sysv runlevels? |
| 06:49.55 | findlay | herlo: all I know is that pundits like to blame slowness on bash because initscripts think nothing of spawing nested procs to do simple stuff |
| 06:50.07 | findlay | like no optimization |
| 06:50.53 | Supaplex | some of us mod our own init scripts :) |
| 06:50.56 | herlo | Tene: ease of use |
| 06:51.09 | herlo | Tene: a standard that seems simple enough... |
| 06:51.12 | findlay | herlo: I don't know, I assumed that because basically an initscript does the same time each time it's run and hardware and the system don't often change, maybe there's something to cache? |
| 06:51.20 | findlay | like probing hardware or something |
| 06:51.57 | *** join/#utah josephscott2_ (n=josephsc@63-226-101-77.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 06:52.03 | Tene | herlo: like the mess of rc?.d directories that are a main to manage by hand, so we have tools to abstract it for us anyway? |
| 06:52.19 | Tene | When's the last time you set up and regularly used a custom runlevel? |
| 06:52.22 | herlo | Tene: do you mean a pain? |
| 06:52.25 | herlo | not a main |
| 06:52.28 | Tene | Yes, I do. |
| 06:52.33 | herlo | :) |
| 06:52.37 | Tene | :) |
| 06:52.51 | herlo | Tene: never. I've never set up a custom runlevel. Never had the need, which is part of my point |
| 06:52.55 | Tene | herlo: you gonna be in the office tomorrow to go over the 5.1 lassroom setup stuff? |
| 06:53.04 | herlo | if I wants something to work, its a matter of changing a link in one directory |
| 06:53.12 | herlo | Tene: nope |
| 06:53.16 | herlo | Tene: why would I be? |
| 06:53.17 | Sargun | hey |
| 06:53.17 | Tene | herlo: so why do you need 5 separate runlevels just to say "This stuff should start on boot"? |
| 06:53.32 | herlo | Tene: because we need to boot less stuff when there are problems. |
| 06:53.43 | herlo | and I don't need 5 runlevels, I only need 3 |
| 06:53.55 | herlo | single user, without x and with x |
| 06:54.17 | findlay | but 'tis slowness |
| 06:54.28 | herlo | the two other runlevels are really just shutdown and reboot so I don't consider them true runlevels, its just convenient to say init 6 or init 0 |
| 06:54.36 | herlo | mostly init 6 |
| 06:54.59 | herlo | Tene: curious, who else is going up to the office to do the 5.1 setups? |
| 06:55.20 | findlay | 5.1 audio? |
| 06:55.21 | Tene | Me, at least. I want to look at this xen stuff before I have to teach a class on it. |
| 06:55.26 | Tene | I think dave might be. |
| 06:55.35 | Tene | findlay: rhel5.1 |
| 06:55.43 | herlo | Tene: what xen stuff? |
| 06:55.44 | findlay | all the cool kids use 12.2 audio |
| 06:55.56 | herlo | Tene: we've had xen coverage in the 133 since rhel5 started |
| 06:55.56 | Tene | herlo: did you not get mail about it? |
| 06:56.03 | herlo | Tene: nope |
| 06:56.50 | Tene | herlo: the student workstations are going to have two xen vms on them by default for the 253 at least, for testing access from another box on the network and a box outside of the network, instead of relying on other students boxes. |
| 06:57.08 | herlo | oh, I got that email a while back |
| 06:57.13 | herlo | thing is, that's been there for a while |
| 06:57.22 | Tene | huh |
| 06:57.24 | herlo | Tene: its just that now their making that the default |
| 06:57.30 | Tene | I just found out about it this week. |
| 06:57.41 | Tene | ~herlo++ |
| 06:58.02 | herlo | Tene: next time you run a class, or even better, when you look at the dhcpd.conf, you might've noticed that they have the xen ks file |
| 06:58.17 | herlo | s/or even better, //g |
| 06:58.52 | herlo | Tene: if you didn't its been there since the beginning and in the documentation, it says that you can run the classroom set up either way. |
| 06:59.19 | herlo | Tene: they mentioned that they'll be changing the setup to use a xen vm so that 253 users can test cracker against their setups. |
| 07:00.01 | Sargun | Tene, is the Test going to use Xen? |
| 07:00.17 | herlo | Sargun: we can't tell you that |
| 07:00.26 | Tene | Sargun: discussing exam-confidential material would be inappropriate. |
| 07:00.27 | Sargun | hahaa |
| 07:00.28 | Tene | ;) |
| 07:00.32 | Sargun | For you |
| 07:00.35 | Sargun | For me, well... |
| 07:00.39 | herlo | Sargun: but we can tell you that if you tak ethe course, you will learn xen |
| 07:00.41 | Sargun | I'd be F-d too. |
| 07:00.56 | Sargun | herlo, I took the course about 3 years ago |
| 07:01.02 | Sargun | almost expired :-( |
| 07:01.03 | herlo | Sargun: take it again |
| 07:01.06 | Sargun | Why? |
| 07:01.08 | herlo | Sargun: and you'll learn Xen |
| 07:01.11 | Sargun | I hate RH |
| 07:01.15 | herlo | Sargun: why? |
| 07:01.18 | Sargun | well, that's not true. |
| 07:01.24 | Sargun | I hate redhat if it didn't have RHN |
| 07:01.31 | herlo | Sargun: why? |
| 07:01.42 | Sargun | installation HELL |
| 07:01.48 | herlo | Sargun: that's what yum is for |
| 07:01.53 | Sargun | of upgrading installing and moving around packages |
| 07:01.57 | Sargun | yum < RHN |
| 07:02.07 | Lakshmi | sargun |
| 07:02.11 | herlo | Sargun: nope, yum ~ RHN |
| 07:02.13 | findlay | ~Supaplex yesterday |
| 07:02.17 | Sargun | apt = RHN |
| 07:02.23 | Sargun | yum < * |
| 07:02.23 | herlo | Sargun: no |
| 07:02.30 | Lakshmi | sargun! |
| 07:02.32 | herlo | Sargun: you don't understand what yum can do |
| 07:02.35 | findlay | herlo: that's debatable :) |
| 07:02.41 | herlo | Sargun: yum is the front end to rpm |
| 07:02.45 | herlo | findlay: no, its not |
| 07:02.51 | Sargun | herlo, yes... |
| 07:02.53 | herlo | findlay: I've used both, and yum is just as good |
| 07:02.54 | findlay | there may be a yum and an apt but there is only one emerge! |
| 07:03.00 | herlo | ~lart findlay |
| 07:03.00 | ibot | urinates on findlay |
| 07:03.07 | findlay | ~gentoo herlo |
| 07:03.07 | ibot | ACTION recompiles herlo again |
| 07:03.18 | herlo | Sargun: and yum has replaced up2date in rhel5 |
| 07:03.28 | herlo | findlay: that'll take days! |
| 07:03.40 | herlo | Sargun: though the rhn functionality still exists |
| 07:03.41 | Sargun | oh |
| 07:03.43 | Sargun | seriously |
| 07:03.44 | Sargun | f |
| 07:03.45 | herlo | Sargun: exactly |
| 07:03.50 | herlo | Sargun: yum is simple |
| 07:03.50 | findlay | herlo: I've suffered too much at the hands of yum to be emotionally prepared to accept a yum > apt |
| 07:03.52 | Sargun | I really liked the RHN |
| 07:03.58 | Sargun | and up2date --install |
| 07:04.00 | herlo | Sargun: yum resolves dependencies |
| 07:04.06 | Sargun | It was like an orgasm when my system worked |
| 07:04.11 | herlo | Sargun: and yum works well with rhn |
| 07:04.16 | herlo | Sargun: it'll be the same |
| 07:04.20 | herlo | Sargun: only better |
| 07:04.24 | herlo | with yum |
| 07:04.46 | findlay | but ... |
| 07:04.50 | findlay | is it, |
| 07:04.53 | findlay | yummy? |
| 07:05.02 | herlo | findlay: of course! |
| 07:05.35 | herlo | Sargun: and while apt/aptitude can do these things as well. yum is *very* powerful. |
| 07:06.27 | Supaplex | and if you thought init was slow, try running yum ;) |
| 07:06.33 | findlay | heh |
| 07:06.34 | herlo | Supaplex: try again |
| 07:06.42 | Supaplex | aptitude's just as slow :p |
| 07:06.44 | herlo | Supaplex: yum is *much* improved |
| 07:06.58 | herlo | Supaplex: if your network connection is slow, we can do nothing but recommend UTOPIA! |
| 07:06.59 | Supaplex | kewl. I'll have to try it *again* :) |
| 07:07.19 | Supaplex | yeah, sure, keep pushing utopia. right up until they're in my area |
| 07:07.27 | Sargun | yum is as slow as dial up |
| 07:07.29 | findlay | herlo: since when did you become the yum advocate? :) |
| 07:07.32 | herlo | Supaplex: its true, in F7 and F8, which in part will become RHEL6, is much much much better |
| 07:07.35 | Sargun | saturated with Gnutella. |
| 07:07.36 | herlo | findlay: always |
| 07:07.57 | findlay | mine goes all the way up to F12 |
| 07:08.08 | findlay | then "Print Scrn" |
| 07:08.09 | herlo | Sargun: if dialup is what you have, yum will only go that fast. Unless of course, the repositories are *on* *your* *box* |
| 07:08.41 | Sargun | Yum feels like dial up |
| 07:09.29 | herlo | <clear throat> Supaplex </clear throat> |
| 07:09.30 | findlay | well, I have to say that it's improved lots in the last few releases |
| 07:09.37 | herlo | <clear throat> findlay </clear throat> |
| 07:09.42 | herlo | :) |
| 07:09.43 | findlay | but still way too verbose for me |
| 07:10.03 | findlay | but apt-get is way unreadable |
| 07:10.04 | herlo | findlay: what is too verbose? the fact that it *tells* you what its doing? unlike aptitude? |
| 07:10.19 | herlo | findlay: have you used yum since FC6? |
| 07:11.02 | findlay | herlo: just too many bad memories: `yum install that-package` ... <wait 3 minutes> *ding* "yum can't find that-package. You lose." |
| 07:11.20 | herlo | findlay: again, how long? |
| 07:11.33 | findlay | FC5ish |
| 07:11.41 | findlay | actually, no, CentOS 5 |
| 07:12.05 | findlay | but I'm talking about the dog days of yum, obviously |
| 07:12.35 | levi | Down with yum! Up with apt! |
| 07:13.09 | findlay | levi: the main thing I hate about apt is that its output is really hard to read |
| 07:13.34 | herlo | ~lart levi for participating |
| 07:13.34 | ibot | pours gasoline all over levi, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze for participating |
| 07:14.00 | herlo | findlay: use aptitude instead of apt (unless its debian, I suppose) |
| 07:14.13 | findlay | herlo: eh |
| 07:14.26 | herlo | findlay: what's wrong with that? |
| 07:14.38 | findlay | herlo: I'm a cli bigot |
| 07:15.02 | herlo | findlay: obviously |
| 07:15.13 | herlo | findlay: but aptitude is cli |
| 07:15.16 | Supaplex | aptitude is cli |
| 07:15.25 | findlay | it's TUI |
| 07:15.29 | Supaplex | i rarely use it as TUI |
| 07:15.29 | herlo | findlay: nope |
| 07:15.35 | Supaplex | it's both, learn how to use it |
| 07:15.41 | findlay | which is a euphamism for GUI :0 |
| 07:15.43 | herlo | findlay: its the same as apt if you do it just like ap |
| 07:15.45 | Supaplex | aptitude install foo |
| 07:15.54 | herlo | exactly |
| 07:16.03 | herlo | Supaplex: what's the gui one? |
| 07:16.04 | findlay | oh, well, shows how little I know |
| 07:16.14 | herlo | findlay: so why are you arguing? |
| 07:16.15 | Supaplex | herlo: no clue. :P |
| 07:16.20 | herlo | findlay: just for the sake of arguing |
| 07:16.28 | findlay | herlo: there's lots of gui ones |
| 07:17.03 | herlo | Supaplex: synaptic |
| 07:17.05 | herlo | iirc |
| 07:17.10 | Supaplex | o |
| 07:17.12 | findlay | heh, aptitude. I don't see what's wrong with dpkg or tasksel |
| 07:17.13 | herlo | findlay: yes, there are |
| 07:17.46 | findlay | I have a custom bash script that auto downloads new packages for |
| 07:17.51 | herlo | findlay: probably nothing, but dependency issues could be a bit more challenging and their definitely not as fast as yum or apt/aptitude with regard to getting all the dependencies in one place |
| 07:17.51 | findlay | blah |
| 07:18.07 | herlo | findlay: and where does it get these packages/ |
| 07:18.08 | herlo | ? |
| 07:18.24 | findlay | herlo: I steal them off from your secret backup server |
| 07:18.55 | herlo | findlay: you do! |
| 07:19.15 | findlay | aw |
| 07:19.59 | findlay | boxed? |
| 07:20.05 | herlo | damn! |
| 07:20.09 | findlay | heh |
| 07:20.11 | herlo | findlay: you are good! |
| 07:20.21 | findlay | I learned all I know from Supaplex |
| 07:20.26 | herlo | could be |
| 07:21.30 | herlo | and takes his "Edison and the Electric Chair" book he got from Dollar Tree |
| 07:35.58 | levi | findlay: aptitude is pretty easy to learn |
| 13:41.43 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@216.31.27.110) |
| 14:44.43 | elg | anyone alive got IE handy? |
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| 17:26.57 | levi | elg: You still need IE? |
| 17:34.39 | elg | sure. can you tell me what you see? http://hans.fugal.net/tmp/foton.png |
| 17:34.48 | elg | is it grey on white or grey on grey? |
| 17:35.06 | elg | and which version of IE |
| 17:35.07 | elg | and which versin of IE |
| 17:35.13 | elg | -lart xchat |
| 17:37.42 | levi | Grey on white |
| 17:37.46 | levi | IE 7, I think. |
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| 17:38.23 | levi | Awesomeness: http://robotmonkey7.livejournal.com/43951.html |
| 17:39.36 | levi | The logo looks the same in Firefox and IE to me, but there's a lot of sunlight in this room so there's not a lot of contrast visible in the LCD. |
| 17:40.02 | levi | Anyway, I've got to get to school to meet for a group project. |
| 17:40.48 | bbeatti1 | anyone around that's using asterisk and can record calls? |
| 17:43.26 | elg | levi: thanks. I expect ie7 to work the same as firefox. anyone got ie6? (this is a png transparency experiment) |
| 17:43.43 | elg | bbeattie: i use asterisk and I know how to record calls |
| 17:55.52 | sontek | png transparency won't work in IE6 |
| 17:56.02 | sontek | and it'll render different colors in ie7 |
| 17:56.53 | findlay | Tene: I'm having trouble finding the edb dump/read script by the intrepid raster |
| 17:57.16 | findlay | sontek: why? that's dumb |
| 17:57.47 | sontek | findlay: because ms didn't try to support png's very well until ie7, and they screwed up even then |
| 17:58.08 | sontek | we have that problem at work all the time and have to figure out a way to make transparent gif's not look like shit |
| 17:58.10 | findlay | probably for 'compatibility reasons' or something |
| 17:58.26 | sontek | s/shit/poop/ |
| 18:04.28 | bbeattie | elg: you don't have a feature that lets people dial in and then back out and have the call recorded?.. I need to record a call and can't find a friend or family member with a phone recorder.. |
| 18:05.00 | bbeattie | ... figured before I spent a few hundred $$ I'd check if any asterisk users had something that would do the trick. |
| 18:05.42 | nick125 | bbeattie: There's two ways to record calls: one-touch recording (where you hit *1 once it's enabled), or you can set it up in the dial plan |
| 18:06.21 | bbeattie | that's slick |
| 18:07.05 | bbeattie | .. I don't have a land line at home yet, so I can't use asterisk quite yet. :-/ |
| 18:07.50 | nick125 | You could get an account with a SIP provider. |
| 18:08.44 | nick125 | And you can connect to asterisk either through a telephone adapter, an IP phone, or through your computer with a headset. |
| 18:09.57 | bbeattie | how long does it take to get a sip account made active? |
| 18:10.02 | bbeattie | instant over the web? |
| 18:10.08 | nick125 | Depends on the provider, it's usually instant. |
| 18:10.19 | elg | sontek: my question is whether by some odd hopeful chance the background color setting of the png will come into play in ie6 |
| 18:10.20 | bbeattie | okay, I may give that a try, thanks. |
| 18:10.24 | elg | instead of the transparency |
| 18:10.48 | nick125 | VoipJet has a low minimal requirement ($5 over Paypal) and they give free test accounts with $0.25 in them. |
| 18:11.10 | elg | bbeattie: for playing with, you can get a gizmo account. you can buy pstn credits too, but you don't have to buy anything to play with voip |
| 18:11.51 | elg | bbeattie: and gizmo's soft phone will record calls for ya |
| 18:12.00 | nick125 | I personally hate softphones, but for this case, it'll work fine. |
| 18:12.03 | elg | so if you happen to have a headset, or at least some headphones, a mic, and a quiet room |
| 18:12.44 | nick125 | Ah, yeah, Gizmo would work too. I totally forgot about that.. |
| 18:12.55 | elg | you can use regular sip devices with gizmo (including asterisk), too |
| 18:13.02 | elg | so if you had an ATA |
| 18:13.20 | nick125 | But using Gizmo isn't as fun as setting up Asterisk. |
| 18:13.21 | elg | you might find someone to borrow one from, though this is as busy as i've ever seen this on a saturday :) |
| 18:13.49 | elg | no, but it's easier :) and extensible when you do get around to playing with asterisk |
| 18:14.13 | bonez39 | what' srequired to run a script....a php script, in a browser? I am upgrading an application, the instructions tell me to browse to the 'index.php' file and run it, but when I attempt this...the browser asks...what shall I do with this file??? |
| 18:14.42 | nick125 | elg: easier shemiser. |
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| 18:16.30 | nick125 | bonez39: configure your webserver to send .php requests to php. |
| 18:17.42 | elg | bonez39: http://www.petefreitag.com/item/516.cfm and many other websites give the details |
| 18:17.57 | elg | you don't necessarily have to build it from source, but the apache config will be the same |
| 18:18.05 | Supaplex | I as of yet have never found anyone running php in the browser, client side, like you would javascript. |
| 18:27.21 | bonez39 | nick125: ok, do I configure my browser for that, within firefox? or iceweasel? Preferences? |
| 18:27.42 | Supaplex | no, no and no |
| 18:30.29 | Supaplex | bonez39: what platform/distro is this running on? |
| 18:31.05 | bonez39 | Supaplex: debian sarge with iceweasel |
| 18:31.37 | bonez39 | Supaplex: I have encountered this problem before, but it's been at least a year back...now I can't recall how I resolved it then |
| 18:32.52 | Supaplex | review /usr/share/doc/php*-common/README.Debian.gz and make sure you clear webcache and restart the browser to. If it's cgi see http://surfthe.us/reference/cgi.html#PHP |
| 18:33.48 | bonez39 | ok... |
| 18:36.03 | bonez39 | Supaplex: how would I know if it's cgi or not? |
| 18:36.45 | Supaplex | try w/o cgi first |
| 18:37.34 | bonez39 | Point your web browser to: http://HOST/SUGAR251/upgrade/index.php. You will now be in the Guided Upgrade Wizard. <<< this is the command that is giving me heartburn.... |
| 18:37.48 | bonez39 | I am running php4.... |
| 18:38.04 | bonez39 | I haven't changed anything with apache in a long time.... |
| 18:38.35 | bonez39 | am restarting apache2 now |
| 18:45.55 | bonez39 | ta daaaaaaa |
| 19:09.29 | bonez39 | am I still connected here? |
| 19:26.05 | Tene | findlay: look through the mailing list archives. |
| 19:26.15 | Tene | bonez39: yeah |
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| 19:56.38 | findlay | Tene: can't find it |
| 19:59.59 | Tene | findlay: Subject: [E-devel] eet text file config... |
| 20:00.27 | Tene | eet -d ~/.e/e/config/default/e.cfg config out.txt |
| 20:00.28 | Tene | vi out.txt |
| 20:00.28 | Tene | eet -e ~/.e/e/config/default/e.cfg config out.txt 1 |
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| 20:37.37 | Supaplex | greetings sjansen. back home again? :) |
| 20:38.46 | sjansen | since yesterday |
| 20:39.07 | Supaplex | cool |
| 20:39.10 | sjansen | So I'm in the market for a flatbed scanner. Any recommendations for something compatible with Linux? |
| 20:39.31 | Supaplex | I have a plethora of them that work |
| 20:40.03 | Supaplex | hp scanjet 3300c (2 of), hp 5 (scsi, 3 of) |
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| 22:51.45 | Sargun | ahh! |
| 22:52.42 | Sargun | hm. |
| 22:53.43 | mrpull-lt | is freenode still a bit shaky today? |
| 22:56.52 | jsmith | mrpull-lt: Is water wet? Are weekends too short? Is the earth round? |
| 22:59.15 | Sargun | Water is wet. |
| 22:59.20 | Sargun | Weekends are too short. |
| 22:59.29 | Sargun | The Earth is not round. |
| 22:59.41 | klys_ | herlo: good nite |
| 23:00.33 | mrpull-lt | jsmith: for certain definitions of wet, short, and round |
| 23:00.38 | mrpull-lt | jsmith: but anything can be argued |
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| 23:04.57 | klys | ~slashdot |
| 23:09.08 | nick125 | I wish I had a variable DC power supply |
| 23:09.33 | Sargun | buy these: http://www.laptopgiving.org/ |
| 23:10.07 | Sargun | Then if we run into each other our laptops can handshake |
| 23:12.06 | nick125 | I wonder what would happen if I tried to activate this CDM-4000 on Verizon...hahahah |
| 23:15.24 | nick125 | It doesn't have an ESN on it though. |
| 23:15.40 | Sargun | oh |
| 23:15.44 | Sargun | can't you use the feature |
| 23:15.49 | Sargun | that checks it? |
| 23:16.24 | nick125 | I don't have the power cable to it |
| 23:17.22 | nick125 | They have a data cable for it online...it's serial. |
| 23:18.22 | nick125 | Sargun: Any idea on how to charge the battery? |
| 23:18.37 | nick125 | It's a 3.6v battery |
| 23:18.49 | nick125 | 950mAh |
| 23:21.38 | Sargun | uhh |
| 23:21.42 | Sargun | microwave |
| 23:21.48 | Sargun | It'll be so well charged |
| 23:21.51 | Sargun | it'll spark up |
| 23:21.56 | Tene | yeah, just put it in your microwave. |
| 23:21.56 | Sargun | and EXPLODE |
| 23:22.03 | Sargun | nick125, So, alarm system. |
| 23:22.06 | Sargun | Requirements: |
| 23:22.11 | Sargun | -Add recurring alarms |
| 23:22.13 | Sargun | -Security |
| 23:22.23 | Sargun | What else? |
| 23:22.32 | nick125 | damnit, I can't find my wire stripper |
| 23:22.40 | Sargun | nick125, listen to me |
| 23:23.00 | nick125 | hold on |
| 23:23.23 | Sargun | To Gym |
| 23:23.25 | Sargun | or to hair cut. |
| 23:23.29 | Sargun | Gym Vs. Hair cut |
| 23:23.53 | nick125 | both |
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| 23:23.56 | nick125 | at the same time |
| 23:24.25 | Sargun | hm |
| 23:24.26 | Sargun | I would |
| 23:24.38 | Sargun | but that might result in some very not-awesome trauma. |
| 23:25.01 | Sargun | anyways, those are the only requirements for this system of hell? |
| 23:25.14 | nick125 | Sargun: I guess |
| 23:25.26 | Sargun | do you already have the audio data creation system done? |
| 23:25.37 | nick125 | nope |
| 23:32.27 | Sargun | write a module which creates the alarm |
| 23:32.37 | nick125 | brb |
| 23:33.14 | Sargun | Give me today, before I sleep. |
