| 00:11.31 | levi | email from Apple: "Introducing the iPhone Devcenter" |
| 00:12.48 | *** join/#utah ti`ocpi (n=Chelle@michmax.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 00:34.36 | *** join/#utah ScytheBlade1 (n=Death@about/pxe/ScytheBlade1) |
| 00:45.24 | findlay | levi: got my wrt54g setup with openwrt |
| 00:46.44 | findlay | do you know how to set up wireless access? I know there's something like a network name and a password, but I don't know what they're called and the openwrt docs are pretty heterogeneous |
| 00:47.42 | levi | findlay: I just installed the fancy gui package that's available for openwrt. |
| 00:48.00 | levi | I forget the name of it, though. |
| 00:51.58 | QBFreak | OpenWrt-FancyGuiPackage |
| 00:53.06 | findlay | awesome |
| 00:54.21 | QBFreak | I think perhaps its bed time |
| 00:57.49 | findlay | levi: webif? |
| 01:02.36 | findlay | this lack of documentation coherence is really getting annoying |
| 01:03.13 | tensai | findlay: are you trying to use wep/wpa or not? |
| 01:03.36 | findlay | tensai: the latest spiffy wireless security, whatever that is |
| 01:03.45 | tensai | that'd be wpa |
| 01:03.54 | tensai | which is just wep with rotating keys, I believe |
| 01:04.04 | tensai | I'm using wep with my openwrt |
| 01:04.14 | findlay | tensai: but how to set it up with openwrt, that's the question :) |
| 01:05.16 | levi | webif^2, I think. |
| 01:05.31 | levi | It has a LOT more stuff in it than webif |
| 01:06.17 | findlay | levi: looks like there's no webif package for kamikaze, which is what I installed :) |
| 01:08.45 | levi | What'd you do that for? |
| 01:09.04 | findlay | I don't know |
| 01:10.15 | *** join/#utah wps (n=wps@64.0.192.184) |
| 01:10.30 | tensai | ~kamikaze findlay |
| 01:11.02 | levi | Well, unless you want to spend a lot of time figuring out how to configure it, I suggest flashing on one of the images from http://x-wrt.org/ |
| 01:12.55 | levi | There are snapshots of webif^2 for kamikaze, but it's unfinished. |
| 01:14.35 | Supaplex | =F47*B48 is that a valid OOo formula to multiply the two cell values? I'm getting 0. each value is 20 and 70. |
| 01:14.50 | *** join/#utah Lakshmi (n=chatzill@unaffiliated/lakshmi) |
| 01:22.40 | Supaplex | -chat Lakshmi |
| 01:22.41 | brac | Lakshmi had |
| 01:32.01 | *** join/#utah graphyx (n=mike@c-98-202-9-3.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 01:32.35 | graphyx | how cool is that? The only game I have purchased in the past 2 years is linux compatible! |
| 01:33.28 | Supaplex | you dontated to nethack? cool. |
| 01:35.16 | findlay | heh |
| 01:36.12 | graphyx | that is also an awesome program |
| 01:36.40 | graphyx | but when you use dvorak keyboard it messes up the movement keys |
| 01:37.12 | graphyx | I meant specifcally unreal tournament 2004 |
| 01:38.56 | graphyx | never got used to falcon's eye for nethack though. |
| 01:50.04 | tensai | I've never gotten more than 4 or 5 levels into the dungeon |
| 02:00.14 | graphyx | I have gotten pretty far but not with the amulet ever. |
| 02:00.21 | graphyx | that was a long time ago. |
| 02:00.23 | graphyx | good hint |
| 02:00.31 | graphyx | put gems in a chest and kick the chest |
| 02:00.35 | graphyx | the glass ones will break |
| 02:00.43 | graphyx | =) |
| 02:32.15 | Supaplex | yup. I am. |
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| 03:16.55 | herlo | fozzmoo: !!! |
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| 04:13.58 | tensai | ~onjoin fozzmoo squawk squawk! |
| 04:13.58 | ibot | tensai: ok |
| 04:14.23 | Supaplex | hehe |
| 04:15.40 | findlay | ~say herlo |
| 04:15.40 | ibot | herlo |
| 04:20.02 | herlo | findlay: what! |
| 04:20.57 | findlay | herlo! |
| 04:21.15 | findlay | hi |
| 04:22.21 | herlo | findlay: hello |
| 04:40.36 | tensai | levi: when do we start rewriting tcp? I can't wait. |
| 04:43.03 | levi | tensai: Heh. |
| 04:43.47 | levi | tensai: He definitely doesn't recognize his incompetence. |
| 04:44.26 | tensai | having written a very simplistic implementation of tcp/ip in school I can say with certainty that doing it well is non trivial |
| 04:44.42 | tensai | levi: but it makes for good reading |
| 04:45.35 | levi | He's going to make a bittorrent clone without trackers and with some sort of encryption and digital signatures in a couple of days! |
| 04:47.10 | levi | I need to see if I can find his site where he's writing his book about implementing MMORPGs. |
| 04:49.51 | tensai | reminds me of another youngster with bold ideas but a lack of realism |
| 04:51.09 | levi | Yeah. This one isn't quite as young, though. |
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| 04:58.43 | levi | I love watching America's Test Kitchen. |
| 05:03.01 | Tene | woot-off tonight |
| 05:04.07 | levi | Heh. His code repository for the MMORPG is at libplatinum.googlecode.com |
| 05:04.33 | levi | Supposedly he's written a bunch of stuff, but he seems to be rewriting it all for the 'book'. |
| 05:12.39 | tensai | america's test kitchen++ |
| 05:13.40 | sontek | Hey, someone who knows a lot about cron, I wrote a shell script that scans and rss feed and downloads the torrents, I want it to run in cron, is it better to have it a shell script you put in cron that calls it, or to put the script itself in there |
| 05:14.09 | tensai | cook's illustrated is a good magazine too |
| 05:14.28 | tensai | I've also read a couple of their books and liked them |
| 05:16.38 | tensai | sontek: either way works. if it's more than a really simple script, I recommend putting it in a separate file and calling that. it's easier to debug that way. |
| 05:17.06 | sontek | tensai: yeah, it has a few config files and xslt configuration |
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| 06:23.09 | Lakshmi | hi everyone |
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| 07:15.22 | Supaplex | hi Lakshmi |
| 07:25.01 | findlay | bye timeout |
| 07:25.17 | Supaplex | heh :P |
| 07:25.27 | findlay | ~heh Sargun |
| 07:26.50 | Supaplex | ~laugh findlay |
| 07:26.50 | ibot | ibot laughs hysterically at findlay...ow! laughing so hard, it can't breathe... gasp...gasp...gasp.... ..... ... |
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| 07:39.52 | *** join/#utah Supaplex (n=e@166-70-62-194.ip.xmission.com) |
| 07:39.53 | brac | ~lart went |
| 07:39.53 | ibot | takes a big bite out of went's jugular vein |
| 07:40.01 | Supaplex | ~lart yesterday |
| 07:40.01 | ibot | forces yesterday to use Outlook Express |
| 07:40.08 | Supaplex | night :P |
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| 08:12.10 | Sargun | hi |
| 08:12.13 | Sargun | Anyone awake |
| 08:13.05 | Lakshmi | hi sargun |
| 08:13.23 | Lakshmi | are you going to aim. |
| 08:13.51 | Lakshmi | sargun |
| 08:14.24 | Sargun | anyone else? |
| 08:23.23 | Lakshmi | thanks |
| 08:23.32 | Lakshmi | >.> |
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| 12:44.40 | brac | maquis eats the heads up! |
| 13:05.15 | elg | go maquis! |
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| 13:16.32 | brac | ordering takeout != cook |
| 13:16.51 | elg | thank you, chef boyardee |
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| 13:28.23 | Supaplex | m'oring |
| 13:29.04 | Supaplex | s/or/orn/ |
| 13:29.34 | herlo | Supaplex: morning |
| 13:31.15 | Supaplex | I even took pictures, but I don't see them on my camera. :( |
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| 14:08.55 | brac | maquis grumbles |
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| 14:37.40 | maquis | brac: that's correct! |
| 14:38.06 | maquis | both grammatically and truthfully |
| 14:43.43 | tensai | ~defraud maquis |
| 14:46.03 | elg | ~degrumble maquis |
| 14:46.10 | elg | ~grumble maquis |
| 14:47.35 | maquis | -chat |
| 14:47.36 | brac | I'm trying to shove a MDA at me each time I did try. |
| 14:54.23 | elg | sigh |
| 14:54.56 | elg | smorrey thinks we don't understand what he's driving at. the problem is that we *do*, better than he does |
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| 15:07.55 | elg | -lart sjansen |
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| 15:13.19 | tristanbob | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:13.55 | elg | you mean the best text-based firewall wizard/handholder? |
| 15:14.06 | tristanbob | exactly! |
| 15:14.40 | elg | i like ferm. it's not a wizard but it makes dealing with iptables nice. like programming in a high-level language |
| 15:14.50 | elg | you still need an understanding of iptables though |
| 15:15.03 | elg | i don't like the wizards, for the same reason I don't like frontpage |
| 15:15.37 | tristanbob | I don't like frontpage, but I like DreamWeaver |
| 15:16.59 | elg | i probably can't help you then |
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| 15:23.52 | fozzmoo | http://blogs.zdnet.com/Burnette/?p=420&tag=nl.e539 |
| 15:24.29 | herlo | fozzmoo: guess what? |
| 15:25.10 | herlo | fozzmoo: http://planet.fedoraproject.org/ |
| 15:25.11 | fozzmoo | herlo: Swiss cheese is growing in your left nostril. |
| 15:25.22 | herlo | fozzmoo: nope, I am now blogging on fedora planet :) |
| 15:25.38 | fozzmoo | Cool. I wanna blog there. |
| 15:25.49 | herlo | fozzmoo: you can't |
| 15:25.50 | herlo | :) |
| 15:25.56 | herlo | ROFLOL |
| 15:26.09 | fozzmoo | herlo: Sure I can. You can make it happen. |
| 15:26.17 | herlo | fozzmoo: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Planet |
| 15:26.23 | herlo | fozzmoo: there you go |
| 15:26.44 | herlo | fozzmoo: but I did that of my own free will, you won't get a million dollars or all of my money either |
| 15:26.51 | herlo | nor any of my fame! :) |
| 15:27.16 | herlo | fozzmoo: I think it'd be good to have your solitary world series be blogged there |
| 15:35.00 | sjansen | tristanbob: iptables |
| 15:35.17 | Jayce^ | sjansen, get to work |
| 15:35.20 | RyanE | of course, you have to understand iptables. :) |
| 15:35.51 | tristanbob | RyanE: u think? |
| 15:35.57 | tristanbob | :) |
| 15:36.03 | Jayce^ | RyanE, if only there was a company that could provide quality training on iptables... that was capable of coming in and explaining the necessary details of that mess :) |
| 15:36.14 | RyanE | Jayce^: I think I'll start one! |
| 15:36.50 | levi | Wow, these speakers I just got for my desk sell for $730 each. |
| 15:37.00 | RyanE | holy cow, batman! |
| 15:37.09 | Jayce^ | eek |
| 15:37.18 | Jayce^ | ~covet levi's speakers |
| 15:37.39 | levi | They're JBL LSR4328Ps, bi-amplified 8" studio monitors. |
| 15:37.54 | elg | i'm jealous |
| 15:38.35 | levi | They come with a remote, a microphone, and a system to automatically calibrate themselves to your room. |
| 15:40.54 | RyanE | levi: and these are intended to be *computer* speakers, or desktop monitors? |
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| 15:41.09 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 15:41.13 | elg | they're studio monitors |
| 15:41.20 | levi | Oh, they're definitely studio monitors. |
| 15:41.30 | elg | the fact that he can use them as desktop speakers demonstrates the level of decadence he enjoys |
| 15:41.31 | maquis | levi: how'd you get them? |
| 15:41.34 | RyanE | ok, when you said on your desk, I was thinking *computer* speakers... that makes more sense. |
| 15:41.57 | elg | although, how can such a thing fit on your desktop? |
| 15:42.02 | elg | pair of things rather |
| 15:42.08 | elg | they're usualy mounted on the wall or something |
| 15:42.18 | maquis | levi: are you going to be putting them on your desk at work? |
| 15:42.22 | levi | elg: It's a wrap-around desk in my cube, so there's plenty of room. |
| 15:42.38 | sjansen | ~wow levi |
| 15:42.39 | ibot | i heard levi is a male who lives in utah, or an attack dog |
| 15:42.41 | levi | I don't imagine I'll actually be using them very much. |
| 15:42.56 | *** join/#utah beandog (n=steve@gentoo/developer/beandog) |
| 15:44.24 | levi | The stuff I'm working on is all about networking audio, so I needed some speakers. I'm sure my department was charged MUCH less than retail price. |
| 15:45.48 | fozzmoo | Still! |
| 15:46.02 | levi | The fancy studio headphones I've got get much more use. :) |
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| 15:51.14 | dataw0lf | levi: networking audio? that sounds interesting. |
| 15:57.57 | levi | dataw0lf: Yup, it is. |
| 15:58.26 | *** join/#utah bonez44 (n=scott@c-71-195-243-49.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 15:59.16 | bonez44 | help...I am trying to install something .. it wants to read from aCDROM....in the drive...but when I invoke the installation, it says, I do not have permission to read from the CDROM device I selected... |
| 15:59.50 | bonez44 | I check the permissions of the deviceand it shows root cdrom.... owner and group,, and I am a member of cdrom group....so I figure I should be able to read from it..... |
| 16:02.20 | maquis | bonez44: what are the permissions, though |
| 16:02.23 | maquis | that's the ownership |
| 16:02.36 | maquis | it's possible that group doesn't have read (somewhat stupid, but possible) |
| 16:02.53 | bonez44 | /dev/hda on /media/WXPVOL_EN type iso9660 (ro,noexec,nosuid,nodev,uid=1000,gid=1000,iocharset=utf8) |
| 16:03.05 | bonez44 | maquis....let me check...hold on |
| 16:03.23 | bonez44 | etch:/home/scott# ls -al /dev/hda |
| 16:03.23 | bonez44 | brw-rw---- 1 root cdrom 3, 0 2007-10-05 11:58 /dev/hda |
| 16:03.30 | maquis | k |
| 16:03.32 | bonez44 | dfoes this help? |
| 16:03.40 | maquis | so, you do have read/write |
| 16:03.41 | maquis | well |
| 16:03.43 | maquis | your group does |
| 16:04.09 | bonez44 | yeah..this app requires that I be root to install..so I am root and have permission....I think |
| 16:05.20 | maquis | bonez44: just for my own sanity, can yo utry running 'sudo chmod 777 /dev/<whatever your cd drvive is>'? |
| 16:05.29 | maquis | (then running whatever you're trying to do) |
| 16:05.39 | bonez44 | ok |
| 16:06.26 | maquis | i know it looks like you have perms, but it's sometimes useful to quadruple-check |
| 16:07.00 | bonez44 | maquis: that did it....thank you |
| 16:07.16 | maquis | bonez44: it's something to do with permissions, then :) |
| 16:11.28 | bonez44 | maquis.....in any event..thanks for the tip |
| 16:12.03 | tensai | Jayce^: did you happen to find joseph? |
| 16:13.09 | Jayce^ | oh, forgot to look, it's not here though |
| 16:13.27 | maquis | bonez44: no problem... |
| 16:14.00 | maquis | unfortunately, when i suspect permissions errors, i usually end up just chmodding something to 777 and testing... |
| 16:14.35 | maquis | it's a good way of determining whether permissions are the problem... and if you only need to do something 1 time, it's probably one of the best ways to do it... |
| 16:14.51 | tensai | Jayce^: elg's had too many scratches |
| 16:16.20 | bonez44 | maquis: as a follow up, do I thenneed to go back and return the permissions to what they were before chmodingthem to 777? |
| 16:17.00 | maquis | bonez44: that's usually a good idea |
| 16:17.28 | maquis | although devices do appear to switch back on their own eventually... i'm not sure how that works, though |
| 16:20.04 | bonez44 | ok |
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| 17:00.56 | ibot | tickles tuple with a rose bush |
| 17:02.52 | elg | if one had to go to the store in happy valley and buy a dsl modem, what should one get? |
| 17:03.22 | beandog | which valley is happy? |
| 17:04.07 | levi | beandog: Utah Valley is Happy Valley. |
| 17:05.16 | elg | levi's got it |
| 17:06.35 | *** join/#utah wps (n=wps@208.53.47.251) |
| 17:07.37 | beandog | which valley is that? |
| 17:07.50 | elg | utah valley - provo, orem, etc. |
| 17:07.57 | beandog | ah okay, thas what I thought |
| 17:09.48 | fozzmoo | Anybody deployed iSCSI? |
| 17:10.13 | tensai | fozzmoo: no but I read about it once |
| 17:10.31 | fozzmoo | heh. |
| 17:10.51 | elg | tensai: any opinions on dsl modems when buying new? what's best these days? are actiontec decent now (i thought I heard that). 2wire? etc. |
| 17:10.56 | levi | Anyone here have a copy of Orrin Hatch's Christmas album? |
| 17:11.08 | elg | levi: they all died |
| 17:11.11 | RyanE | levi: ewwww. |
| 17:11.19 | fozzmoo | I used to, but it made my CD player explode. |
| 17:11.27 | tensai | levi: does he sing any duets with regis? |
| 17:11.34 | fozzmoo | elg: The 2-Wires are pretty nice. |
| 17:11.38 | levi | RyanE: I want it for irony value, not because I would actually like to hear it. |
| 17:11.40 | RyanE | fozzmoo: and you got your dog, house, and wife back? |
| 17:11.57 | levi | Our previous demo apparently used Pat Boone's cover album of heavy metal hits. |
| 17:11.59 | RyanE | levi: could there possibly be any other reason? |
| 17:12.02 | tensai | elg: actiontecs are better than they used to be. 2wires aren't complete crap and are probably better than actiontecs. |
| 17:12.12 | fozzmoo | My dad has a 2-Wire. |
| 17:12.19 | fozzmoo | I got that because I didn't want him to have an ACtioncrap. |
| 17:12.31 | levi | The actiontec I got a couple of months ago didn't seem too bad at all. |
| 17:12.33 | fozzmoo | But, like tensai said, actiontec's aren't THAT bad anymore. |
| 17:12.49 | tensai | it only took them like 3 years to work out most of the bugs |
| 17:12.54 | RyanE | My in-laws have the 2-wire as well. Seems to work, they don't call for support often. It was the default QWest option at the time |
| 17:12.54 | fozzmoo | My dad's 2wire died as soon as it was out of the 1-year warranty period. |
| 17:12.56 | levi | I have PPPoE set up on my OpenWRT, though, so the Actiontec doesn't do a whole lot. |
| 17:13.10 | fozzmoo | But Qwest replaced it. |
| 17:14.48 | fozzmoo | Depending on what you need, Zoom DSL modems aren't bad either. |
| 17:14.54 | fozzmoo | I have one at home that isn't doing anything. |
| 17:15.10 | fozzmoo | I bought it to see what they were like- see if I wanted to deploy them for our clients. |
| 17:15.29 | fozzmoo | They weren't a good fit because they don't do any routing in front of their built-in firewall. |
| 17:15.49 | fozzmoo | But if you just want a DSL modem to do NAT (like most peopel do), they're great. |
| 17:16.05 | fozzmoo | I wanted something that was a real router - like a Cisco 678. |
| 17:16.15 | elg | well mostly I^Hthey want a dsl modem to do dsl modeming |
| 17:16.30 | elg | they're a pretty standard setup (my grandparents) |
| 17:16.39 | elg | so just about any consumer one would work fine for what they need |
| 17:16.45 | fozzmoo | Then the Zoom line is probably a good fit. |
| 17:16.54 | fozzmoo | Like I said, I have one that is just sitting in a box. |
| 17:16.55 | elg | but their crazy grandson visits from time to time and wants to do odd things |
| 17:27.04 | *** join/#utah shadowwire (n=shadowwi@mail.swplumb.com) |
| 17:27.25 | shadowwire | ~praise Python |
| 17:27.26 | ibot | All hail Python! |
| 17:28.52 | shadowwire | ~stab Hillary |
| 17:28.52 | ibot | ACTION runs at Hillary with an origami Swiss Army knife, and inflicts a nasty paper cut. |
| 17:29.58 | shadowwire | ~scream at everyone |
| 17:30.23 | shadowwire | Anybody here? |
| 17:30.37 | shadowwire | is anyone hiding there in the dark? |
| 17:30.38 | levi | Yes. |
| 17:30.45 | shadowwire | Hi levi |
| 17:31.02 | shadowwire | I decided to start with Python. |
| 17:31.11 | levi | Sounds reasonable. |
| 17:31.27 | levi | Did you look at the 'How to Think Like a Python Programmer' book? |
| 17:32.04 | *** join/#utah hatul3048 (i=hatul30@gateway/tor/x-d4de30142b65a5a7) |
| 17:33.54 | shadowwire | Yes, I spent about 3 hours with it yesterday. |
| 17:34.04 | RyanE | does anyone know Lua? |
| 17:34.13 | *** join/#utah fozzmoo (n=fozz@66.7.122.158) |
| 17:34.14 | shadowwire | What does she look like? |
| 17:34.33 | levi | RyanE: I know about Lua. Do you have a question? |
| 17:34.51 | shadowwire | ibot: Shut your cake hole. |
| 17:35.01 | RyanE | yeah, how well does it handle building hex strings? |
| 17:35.18 | RyanE | I'm thinking of using it as an embedded language, and some protocols it'll have to write to are binary. |
| 17:36.42 | RyanE | eh, I really need to play with it, instead of asking here. :) |
| 17:37.59 | levi | What kind of features are you thinking of? |
| 17:38.50 | RyanE | well, being able to write arbitrary protocol strings is the need. For example, some TV's serial protocol requires you to send the channel encoded into a pair of bytes, checksums are usually binary, etc. |
| 17:39.01 | RyanE | I just haven't looked at it in-depth, and really need to soon. |
| 17:39.30 | RyanE | at worst, I suppose I could put the hex into a table, and pass it to a C function that would turn it into the output. |
| 17:42.20 | levi | As far as I can tell, lua strings can contain any 8-bit character. |
| 17:42.42 | RyanE | including null? |
| 17:42.45 | levi | Yes. |
| 17:42.53 | RyanE | cool. |
| 17:43.26 | RyanE | yeah, I curse them regularly. |
| 17:43.43 | shadowwire | ~curse C |
| 17:43.43 | ibot | May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, C ! |
| 17:43.48 | RyanE | I still think in C |
| 17:44.30 | RyanE | but I hope that by integrating a higher-level language for drivers, I won't have to think in C as much. |
| 17:45.49 | levi | Numerical constants in lua can be written like 0x3a, so that part is set, too. |
| 17:46.12 | levi | Doesn't look like it does anything special to handle binary data, but it also doesn't prevent you from doing so. |
| 17:46.16 | RyanE | I had seen that part, but didn't know how I would go about 'building' dynamic hex output. |
| 17:46.59 | sjansen | ~praise C |
| 17:47.00 | ibot | All hail C! |
| 17:47.25 | shadowwire | ah hail. |
| 17:47.49 | *** topic/#utah by sjansen -> The channel for content free discussion in Utah | http://plug.org/irc | Channel log @ http://ibot.rikers.org/%23utah/ | Have you hugged your sysadmin today? |
| 17:48.07 | RyanE | I come to bury C, not to praise it. The evil that languages do lives after them, the good is oft interred with their bones. So let it be with C. |
| 17:48.13 | levi | You can put an arbitrary value into a Lua string with /ddd, where d is a decimal digit. |
| 17:48.47 | RyanE | I'm picturing concatenating a fixed part then the hex values of the 'changeable' parts of the protocol output. |
| 17:55.55 | levi | What would be really nice for binary protocol handling is Erlang's binary pattern matching. |
| 17:57.57 | *** join/#utah vontrapp (n=von@c-67-164-192-43.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 17:58.11 | vontrapp | dsl modem and wireless router in one? or seperate? |
| 17:58.21 | vontrapp | discuss |
| 18:00.37 | shadowwire | For home use? |
| 18:01.25 | vontrapp | yeah |
| 18:01.59 | levi | I have them separate. |
| 18:02.27 | vontrapp | who has a combined one? any problems with it? |
| 18:02.42 | levi | Actiontec does DSL-to-Ethernet bridging, OpenWRT does PPPoE and all the routing. |
| 18:02.46 | shadowwire | Depends on the model. If its an actiontek, seperate. (or just throw it away and get a good one:) |
| 18:02.52 | vontrapp | my grandma's died, before that it always had problems maintaining more than one wireless connection |
| 18:02.58 | levi | Why have two routers when you can have just one? |
| 18:03.18 | shadowwire | what brand was your grandmothers? |
| 18:03.24 | levi | On the other hand, if you can't do PPPoE with your DSL provider, probably separate. |
| 18:03.27 | shadowwire | I agree with levi. |
| 18:03.45 | levi | Then just get a WAP rather than a full-fledged router. |
| 18:03.55 | vontrapp | well, if it's seperate, one would just be a bridge |
| 18:04.06 | *** join/#utah eco (n=eco@gnuk.net) |
| 18:04.19 | shadowwire | ? |
| 18:04.28 | levi | A WAP is essentially a bridge, since 802.11 and 802.3 are compatible. |
| 18:04.33 | vontrapp | i'm just wondering if it's common for the combined type to have issues like that |
| 18:04.39 | vontrapp | it was an actiontec |
| 18:04.48 | vontrapp | white, with a pcmcia card for the wireless |
| 18:05.21 | shadowwire | Like I said; If its an actiontec, hrow it away a get a real one. |
| 18:05.28 | levi | My old actiontec that did wireless was fine after a couple of firmware updates. |
| 18:05.54 | vontrapp | k, so getting a new modem, what suggestions? |
| 18:06.23 | shadowwire | The reason actiontecs are provided with services is that they are very cheap. |
| 18:08.04 | ^Migs^ | what would be a good one? |
| 18:08.11 | ^Migs^ | I haven't been able to find many DSL modems |
| 18:08.23 | ^Migs^ | at least none that also function as a wireless router |
| 18:08.39 | shadowwire | linksys was bought out by cisco, so not one of those. I like D-link personaly. |
| 18:08.56 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@fugalh.NMSU.Edu) |
| 18:08.57 | brac | usually you know |
| 18:11.35 | beandog | Just get somethign that can run OpenWRT |
| 18:11.59 | fozzmoo | The 2Wire models do wireless. |
| 18:12.42 | Sargun | hey |
| 18:13.16 | fozzmoo | Newer actiontecs run Linux under the hood. |
| 18:14.00 | elg | even older ones do |
| 18:14.11 | elg | for some definition of old. my old one ran busybox or whatever that is |
| 18:14.21 | levi | Was linksys ever /not/ cisco? |
| 18:14.30 | elg | yes |
| 18:15.29 | levi | Ahh, I guess they aquired them in 2003. |
| 18:15.55 | levi | I'm not sure why you consider them being bought by cisco a bad thing, though. |
| 18:18.29 | shadowwire | Because Cisco is a large conglomerate who's primary concern isnt neccecarily quality of their "cheap" line. |
| 18:18.48 | Kemotaha | shadowwire: I would disagree with that |
| 18:18.54 | shadowwire | Why? |
| 18:19.00 | Kemotaha | I have had linksys devices for year and never had a problem |
| 18:19.16 | Kemotaha | They have alway performed at the top of benchmarks I have looked at |
| 18:19.30 | shadowwire | I dont think that they have improved since the buyout. |
| 18:19.36 | Kemotaha | They have been solid for anyone that I have known |
| 18:19.49 | Kemotaha | maybe not improved but they haven't degrade in quality |
| 18:19.59 | Kemotaha | s/degrade/degraded/ |
| 18:20.18 | Kemotaha | I still recommend them over anything else |
| 18:20.20 | shadowwire | I think they had better support before. |
| 18:20.24 | levi | Kemotaha: Heaven forbid he actually judge them based on actual quality instead of vague corporate distrust. |
| 18:20.49 | Kemotaha | shadowwire: possibly, but that is people skills not hardware nor the device |
| 18:20.59 | fozzmoo | FWIW: I can't stand "consumer" D-Link hardware. |
| 18:21.10 | Kemotaha | support always goes up and down in any organization |
| 18:21.23 | shadowwire | true |
| 18:21.25 | fozzmoo | Their higher-end up stuff might be nice, but I usually buy Cisco or Netgear for the sub-$100 stuff. |
| 18:21.40 | fozzmoo | Cisco == Linksys. |
| 18:21.56 | shadowwire | Cisco = $$$ |
| 18:21.59 | fozzmoo | Yeah. |
| 18:22.04 | shadowwire | linksys = $ |
| 18:22.04 | levi | Cisco will be changing the branding on consumer-level stuff to Cisco before too long, anyway. |
| 18:22.12 | fozzmoo | For managed switches, I've been pretty happy with Netgear's stuff. |
| 18:22.25 | fozzmoo | People tell me Dell makes some mean managed switches too. |
| 18:22.29 | shadowwire | so much for linksys |
| 18:22.41 | fozzmoo | Both are less expensive than Cisco managed switches. |
| 18:22.58 | Kemotaha | The other thing is that Cisco's Logo is on the linksys hardware so they do need to keep the reputation up |
| 18:23.33 | shadowwire | The only Managed switches Ive used are HP. |
| 18:24.37 | vontrapp | what's managed switches? |
| 18:24.43 | shadowwire | My point is competition drives the market. Linksys had (and possibly still has) great products. That is why Cisco bought them out. |
| 18:24.44 | fozzmoo | shadowwire: I've heard HP is good too. |
| 18:24.55 | fozzmoo | vontrapp: ethernet switches you can log into and configure/manage/etc. |
| 18:25.10 | fozzmoo | You can control individual ports, set speed, duplex, etc. |
| 18:25.18 | fozzmoo | You can also monitor the switch ports via SNMP. |
| 18:25.28 | fozzmoo | We use that to monitor banwidth usage in some cases. |
| 18:25.38 | fozzmoo | You can configure VLANs, bonding, etc. also |
| 18:25.49 | vontrapp | ph |
| 18:25.49 | vontrapp | ah |
| 18:26.36 | fozzmoo | There are managed switches and then fake-managed switches. |
| 18:27.02 | fozzmoo | I think it's ridiculous there is even a tier of switches that are in between managed and unmanaged. |
| 18:27.14 | fozzmoo | Some manufacturers call them web-managed or something. |
| 18:27.31 | fozzmoo | They're cheap, but you really can't manage much. |
| 18:27.39 | fozzmoo | They never offer serial console. |
| 18:27.59 | shadowwire | How many people think that the president acually has anything to do with the econemy? and why? |
| 18:29.14 | Jayce^ | a lot believe it, because that's what they advertise, and it's what the media says they do.. |
| 18:29.27 | Jayce^ | a president will have minimal impact overall to an economy, and usually that effect will have a 4-8 year delay |
| 18:29.42 | *** join/#utah bucky (n=bucky@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/bucky) |
| 18:29.54 | shadowwire | Ok, so how does the president affect the econemy? |
| 18:29.55 | *** join/#utah linuxalien (n=me@oalug/member/linuxalien) |
| 18:30.03 | fozzmoo | shadowwire: You shoudl read The Forgotten Man. |
| 18:30.25 | fozzmoo | If there ever was an example of a president affecting economy, it was FDR. |
| 18:30.27 | *** join/#utah peno (i=peno@peno.com) |
| 18:30.31 | Jayce^ | shadowwire, can influence international relations (causing purchasing), etc.. |
| 18:30.33 | shadowwire | Thank you. |
| 18:30.42 | shadowwire | fozzmo |
| 18:30.54 | fozzmoo | Oh, and Jimmy Carter. :) |
| 18:31.18 | fozzmoo | FDR is an interesting example because in his first two terms, he was a negative influence on the economy. |
| 18:31.20 | Jayce^ | fozzmoo, good one... |
| 18:31.39 | fozzmoo | But then, as WWII took off, FDR led the country into better economic times. |
| 18:32.04 | Jayce^ | the president can also cause the interest rate adjustment which will have some short, but major long-term effects |
| 18:32.07 | fozzmoo | Reagan arguably fixed Carter's braindead economic mistakes. |
| 18:32.07 | vontrapp | he had more than two terms? |
| 18:32.15 | fozzmoo | vontrapp: FDR: 4 terms. |
| 18:32.16 | Jayce^ | vontrapp, 4 |
| 18:32.26 | fozzmoo | Then they ammended the constitution to limit presidents to 4. |
| 18:32.30 | fozzmoo | s/4/2/ |
| 18:32.35 | vontrapp | oh, it was after him |
| 18:32.46 | RyanE | Jayce^: Doesn't the fed control rates? How would the pres do that? |
| 18:33.02 | fozzmoo | The Federal Reserve reports to... who? |
| 18:33.04 | Jayce^ | part of his cabinet |
| 18:33.28 | fozzmoo | Incidentally, the Federal Reserve was set up by *drum roll* |
| 18:33.30 | fozzmoo | FDR! |
| 18:33.32 | Jayce^ | that's part of why libertarians reject the idea of a federal reserve, it doesn't have checks/balances |
| 18:33.43 | RyanE | thanks |
| 18:33.52 | fozzmoo | And the first chair of the Federal Reserve was... ? |
| 18:34.10 | Jayce^ | fozzmoo, but the central bank, etc is all part of hamiltons economic plans |
| 18:34.43 | fozzmoo | Marriner S. Eccles! |
| 18:34.46 | fozzmoo | A banker from Ogden. |
| 18:35.16 | shadowwire | He was a very smart man. |
| 18:35.20 | fozzmoo | Jayce^: That's interesting. I don't know much about economic policy pre-1900. |
| 18:35.37 | fozzmoo | shadowwire: He was smart, but he was a big-govt guy. |
| 18:35.47 | shadowwire | Fozzmoo: Do you teach? |
| 18:35.53 | fozzmoo | He supported FDR's expansion of govt. |
| 18:35.54 | Jayce^ | fozzmoo, hamilton was an economic genius IMHO, he definately created a lot of our current economic policy |
| 18:36.05 | fozzmoo | shadowwire: I'm teaching EQ this Sunday. :) |
| 18:36.30 | RyanE | fozzmoo: will EQ cover fiscal policy this week? |
| 18:36.42 | fozzmoo | I think we're talking about women in the church. |
| 18:36.50 | fozzmoo | I'll see if I can fit fiscal policy in. :) |
| 18:37.12 | bonez44 | I like what Paul said about Women in Church!!!! |
| 18:37.22 | fozzmoo | I think I'll break the subject by comparing the RS budget to the EQ budget. :) |
| 18:37.36 | shadowwire | Whats EQ? |
| 18:37.41 | fozzmoo | Elders Quorum. |
| 18:37.55 | RyanE | they do have to buy tablecloths and centerpieces. :) |
| 18:38.13 | shadowwire | Whats RS? |
| 18:38.21 | bonez44 | relief society |
| 18:38.29 | bonez44 | women's organization |
| 18:38.43 | shadowwire | I see. |
| 18:38.44 | fozzmoo | shadowwire: LDS humor. |
| 18:39.26 | shadowwire | So does your prophet tell you how to vote? |
| 18:39.33 | fozzmoo | Of course. |
| 18:39.36 | RyanE | The church has a strict neutrality policy. |
| 18:39.37 | fozzmoo | heh heh. |
| 18:39.50 | fozzmoo | He says, "Vote for the person you feel best about." |
| 18:39.58 | RyanE | you're not allowed to endorse any candidates, and they are not allowed to speak in churches as many do in the south |
| 18:40.18 | RyanE | (not allowed to speak as a politician) |
| 18:40.28 | shadowwire | So what do you think of Mit Romney? |
| 18:40.29 | fozzmoo | Amen! |
| 18:40.47 | fozzmoo | He's a good candidate for the GOP. |
| 18:40.57 | tensai | shadowwire: *yuck* |
| 18:41.02 | fozzmoo | He's got a lot going for him. |
| 18:41.13 | RyanE | I think he's a good administrator. He turned the Olympics around, and Mass. seems to be well run. |
| 18:41.24 | shadowwire | tensai: why yuck? |
| 18:41.33 | RyanE | I think his teeth are shiney. :) |
| 18:41.39 | fozzmoo | RyanE: Very shiny. And white |
| 18:41.48 | RyanE | fozzmoo: and he has good hair. |
| 18:41.49 | fozzmoo | Could just be the contrast between the teeth and the slick hair, tho. |
| 18:41.53 | fozzmoo | right. |
| 18:42.07 | tensai | shadowwire: he really killed me when he said he wanted to double the size of gitmo |
| 18:42.36 | bucky | Romney and Leavitt stabbed Johnson and Walsh in the back for their own gain |
| 18:42.38 | tensai | shadowwire: but just in general he rubs me the wrong way. same thing when he was the olympic chair. |
| 18:42.58 | fozzmoo | bucky: I'd have to disagree a bit. |
| 18:43.06 | fozzmoo | I've worked with Dave Johnson... |
| 18:43.07 | RyanE | Every politician panders to their base before the nomination, then they run to the center. That's just how it works. |
| 18:43.15 | bucky | years of prosecutorial harrassment ending in being cleared of all charges |
| 18:43.46 | shadowwire | What about Hillary? |
| 18:43.48 | fozzmoo | and while I'm not convinced he was guilty of any kind of corruption, the fact still stands that the Olympic Committee was still overrun, big time, and Romney's leadership fixed all that. |
| 18:44.07 | fozzmoo | shadowwire: Hillary Clinton is a self-proclaimed "modern progressive" |
| 18:44.29 | bucky | the Leavitt family is the biggest crime family in utah |
| 18:44.31 | fozzmoo | That may not scare many people, but if you read about the progressive movement she refers to- the early 20th century progressive movement, it should make you very scared. |
| 18:44.49 | fozzmoo | bucky: I'm glad Mr. Leavitt isn't our governor anymore. |
| 18:45.12 | tensai | fozzmoo: more or less scary than the neo-con movement? |
| 18:45.40 | Jayce^ | tensai, that big scary right-wing consipiracy |
| 18:45.43 | shadowwire | Giuliani seems to be doing well in internet polls. |
| 18:45.46 | fozzmoo | tensai: Believe me, I'm mostly interested in finding a republican candidate that truly understand conservatism. |
| 18:46.25 | fozzmoo | The "neo-cons," I think, abandoned conservatism in the mid to late 90s. |
| 18:46.46 | fozzmoo | I mean, look at GWB- biggest spender ever. |
| 18:46.56 | fozzmoo | No fiscal responsibility at all, it would seem. |
| 18:47.15 | tensai | every president in the last 50 years has increased the size of government |
| 18:47.26 | fozzmoo | tensai: I'm not sure you could say that about Reagan. |
| 18:47.43 | levi | fozzmoo: Well, he was able to restrain himself with regard to the children's health care thing. |
| 18:47.55 | fozzmoo | If there was any president the last 50 years who you could say actually took a knife to tax code and what-not, it was Reagan. |
| 18:48.06 | shadowwire | I saw a cool thing called "the proper role of guvornment" I dont remember who wrote it, but I agree with it. |
| 18:48.08 | fozzmoo | levi: Even then, he didn't want to cut it. |
| 18:48.16 | fozzmoo | levi: He told congress to leave it as it is. |
| 18:48.16 | tensai | fozzmoo: even reagan. can't recall where I saw the numbers on that, but overall they did spend more. he certainly wasn't a wuss when it came to defense spending. |
| 18:48.37 | fozzmoo | tensai: IMO, defense is one of the few things a government should fund. |
| 18:48.49 | fozzmoo | it's one of the jobs of govt. |
| 18:48.51 | shadowwire | I concure. |
| 18:49.05 | tensai | well definitely. I wouldn't leave it up to blackwater |
| 18:49.22 | fozzmoo | heh heh. Evil defense contractors! |
| 18:49.44 | fozzmoo | I woudn't want to walk through Bahgdad without a couple Blackwater guys at my side. :) |
| 18:50.15 | shadowwire | one of my favorite movies is "lord of war" |
| 18:50.23 | tensai | fozzmoo: no doubt they're effective. they're just not accountable. |
| 18:51.03 | shadowwire | the most important single function of government is to secure the rights and freedoms of individual citizens. |
| 18:51.10 | fozzmoo | tensai: That's what's nice about private contractors: they're effective. :) |
| 18:52.10 | fozzmoo | What I'm saying is that if you leave something up to a govt agency, you're less likely to get an effective result. |
| 18:52.30 | fozzmoo | Accountability isn't something you automatically don't get from a private contractor either. |
| 18:52.56 | fozzmoo | You don't like them, fire them. Get an accountable contractor. |
| 18:53.10 | levi | The idea of hiring people to kill other people, without making them official soldiers, kind of disturbs me. |
| 18:53.12 | fozzmoo | Can't do that with government agencies. You're kind of stuck with them. |
| 18:53.15 | shadowwire | Rights are either God-given as part of the Divine Plan, or they are granted by government as part of the political plan. |
| 18:53.31 | fozzmoo | shadowwire: And that, right there, is the problem in today's culture. |
| 18:53.45 | shadowwire | What exactly? |
| 18:54.13 | fozzmoo | Even the religious among us are afraid to admit that our government is based on the notion that our "inalienable" rights come from God. |
| 18:54.35 | fozzmoo | It's become so very un-PC. |
| 18:54.54 | tensai | shadowwire: I take issue with rights being granted by government. the constitution clearly says that all rights and authority for government are granted by the people, not the other way around. |
| 18:55.15 | fozzmoo | tensai: Right. The people take the power given to them by God and give it to the govt. |
| 18:55.28 | shadowwire | "WE THE PEOPLE... do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America." |
| 18:56.22 | shadowwire | government is nothing more or less than a relatively small group of citizens who have been hired, in a sense, by the rest of us to perform certain functions and discharge certain responsibilities which have been authorized. |
| 18:56.32 | levi | It is, however, a shrink-wrap contract that you agree to simply by being born within the nation's borders. |
| 18:56.40 | fozzmoo | http://youtube.com/watch?v=UR0VKwamMHc |
| 18:57.23 | nick125 | Hmm...I think it might be cheaper to buy an espresso machine than buy starbucks drinks every day. |
| 18:57.43 | RyanE | levi: heh. |
| 18:58.05 | tensai | nick125: it's probably cheaper to buy a small latin american country and grow your own beans than to buy starbucks every day |
| 18:58.24 | RyanE | levi: "If you don't agree to the contract, simply renounce your citizenship". |
| 18:58.34 | shadowwire | the proper function of government is limited only to those spheres of activity within which the individual citizen has the right to act. |
| 18:58.40 | tensai | RyanE: but then you gotta find somebody else to take you |
| 18:59.17 | RyanE | tensai: for a fistful of dollars and transportation to the border of Paraguay, you're probably OK. :) |
| 18:59.46 | tensai | RyanE: then problem solved. when do we leave? |
| 19:00.02 | RyanE | I agreed to the contract by birth, pretty much still agree to it. |
| 19:00.26 | shadowwire | http://www.zionsbest.com/proper_role.html |
| 19:00.27 | brac | [The Proper Role of Government by Ezra Taft Benson] |
| 19:00.52 | unum | I agree more with joseph smith on that subject that I think I do with Benson |
| 19:00.58 | tensai | RyanE: yeah. gwb is giving me second thoughts, but you could certainly do worse as far as countries go |
| 19:01.17 | RyanE | tensai: term limits will take care of your problem. |
| 19:01.19 | shadowwire | True dat! |
| 19:01.30 | *** join/#utah beandog (n=steve@gentoo/developer/beandog) |
| 19:01.38 | *** join/#utah pmcnabb (n=pmcnabb@cerebro.cs.byu.edu) |
| 19:02.21 | shadowwire | We live in the best contry on earth. |
| 19:02.30 | unum | I like that my food is inspected and drugs tested |
| 19:02.49 | unum | I also like that my city provides, power, waters, sewer, and internet |
| 19:03.01 | unum | and parks, can't forget the parks and library |
| 19:03.14 | RyanE | I like that utilities are reliable enough to take for granted. |
| 19:03.49 | RyanE | and the fact that, for the most part, something that costs $1 today will cost $1 (or less) in a few months. |
| 19:03.50 | levi | Which bill is that? |
| 19:04.00 | unum | seriously do you people in utah valley have any idea what your legislators are like?!?! |
| 19:04.09 | unum | how does a man like dougal get elected |
| 19:04.13 | shadowwire | Where do you live? |
| 19:04.30 | RyanE | after living with Brazil's horrible inflation for a couple of years, I appreciate the USA much more. |
| 19:04.49 | unum | levi: the one that will require cities to match their rate to private enterprises |
| 19:05.07 | unum | it won't kill the book borrowing part as much as the class room part |
| 19:05.14 | unum | shadowwire: murray |
| 19:07.21 | JoshH | it's not like sl county legislators are much better though |
| 19:07.44 | JoshH | buttars is from west jordan |
| 19:07.47 | dataw0lf | or any legislator, for that matter. |
| 19:07.57 | *** part/#utah linuxalien (n=me@oalug/member/linuxalien) |
| 19:07.59 | unum | JoshH: a slc county legislator didn't write a bill requiring all porn be distributed on port 80 |
| 19:08.41 | JoshH | is that actually a bill? |
| 19:08.59 | unum | we do need to get rid of buttars |
| 19:09.07 | unum | JoshH: it was passed a couple of years ago |
| 19:09.12 | bucky | We're going to leave porn distribution up to Ralph Yarro for a fee |
| 19:09.17 | JoshH | you aren't talking about cp80 then? |
| 19:09.27 | JoshH | i'm unfamiliar with the bill you are talking about |
| 19:10.12 | bucky | Microsoft is the biggest proponent of porn on the internet |
| 19:10.30 | JoshH | ? |
| 19:10.36 | unum | http://www.informit.com/articles/article.aspx?p=717374&seqNum=3 |
| 19:11.30 | unum | oops it's not on their |
| 19:11.32 | unum | there |
| 19:12.00 | JoshH | of course, most porn is on port 80 anyway... |
| 19:12.09 | unum | oops I had it backwards |
| 19:12.20 | unum | and most porn is on peer to peer |
| 19:12.39 | tensai | as I understand it, cp80 has drafted legislation but it hasn't been introduced or passed anywhere |
| 19:12.43 | JoshH | i guess it depends if you talking about porn businesses or porn being shared |
| 19:13.09 | unum | that's true |
| 19:13.23 | JoshH | but the fact is, 90 percent of utah legislators are awful |
| 19:13.30 | *** join/#utah tiwula (n=lane@208.64.90.18.static.utahbroadband.com) |
| 19:13.47 | JoshH | doesn't matter where they are from |
| 19:14.12 | JoshH | i'm not defending utah county or anything |
| 19:14.20 | unum | utah passed a resolution asking congress to pass a law about |
| 19:14.21 | JoshH | just saying, the problem is statewide |
| 19:14.26 | unum | congress always ignores those |
| 19:14.45 | unum | I've had less issues with non-utah county ones |
| 19:17.40 | RyanE | That Guy Steele one you recommended a week or so ago (growing languages) was awesome. |
| 19:17.48 | RyanE | at least I think it was you, levi. |
| 19:17.53 | levi | Yup. |
| 19:17.55 | levi | He's an awesome guy. |
| 19:18.08 | RyanE | very funny, too, after he explained what he was doing. |
| 19:18.29 | RyanE | I noticed the language sounded stilted, but didn't pick up on why until then. |
| 19:18.58 | levi | http://www.oopsla.org/oopsla2007/podcasts/invited-talks/keynote0104-50-in-50.mp3 |
| 19:19.05 | levi | That's the one I'm listening to now. |
| 19:20.07 | RyanE | what's it about? I think I'll throw it on the mp3 player for the ride home. I can't listen to a talk and program at the same time. |
| 19:20.24 | levi | I just started it. |
| 19:20.26 | *** part/#utah pelaofeliz (n=ben@67.108.236.230) |
| 19:20.53 | levi | It's about programming languages, I think. |
| 19:21.28 | levi | They alternate, each giving a 50-word segment. |
| 19:22.16 | RyanE | heh. |
| 19:22.22 | sontek | fozzmoo: where is kb's office? I seen you guys at BK today :P |
| 19:24.18 | levi | There's also a bunch of music interspersed. |
| 19:25.33 | Tene | RyanE: link to the one you were talking about? |
| 19:27.37 | levi | http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8860158196198824415 |
| 19:27.41 | levi | (for Tene) |
| 19:27.48 | Tene | levi++ |
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| 19:35.59 | Supaplex | awwe I missed it :( http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthread.php?t=638797 |
| 19:38.24 | fozzmoo | sontek: HEY! |
| 19:38.49 | fozzmoo | sontek: Was that you with the cute blonde? :) |
| 19:39.01 | fozzmoo | KB's office is around 30th So and West Temple. |
| 19:40.27 | fozzmoo | unum: Many of those "services" provided by the govt are valuable to today's society, but could cost taxpayers less money if they were privatized. |
| 19:40.51 | fozzmoo | The best case I've seen for that is CVTD/LTD in Logan. |
| 19:52.20 | levi | Oh, bad Algol pun! |
| 19:54.48 | levi | This talk really needs video. :/ |
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| 19:57.42 | brac | jsmith tries to dd a windows box that I saw it ... I now have been wasted on the opera I'll be back in without key/code or someone in IT kicked the box in to the fact that we set up on a soldier's Certificate of completion of the best |
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| 20:03.29 | unum | fozzmoo: I bet I pay less for power than you |
| 20:03.47 | unum | private monopoly will usually cost you more than a government monopoly |
| 20:04.02 | unum | if you think private monopolies give better service I doubt you are a comcast customer |
| 20:04.32 | fozzmoo | ;-) |
| 20:04.53 | fozzmoo | I think UTOPIA is actually a great model of how utilities should be run. :) |
| 20:04.57 | unum | I've read too much history |
| 20:05.11 | unum | I had a professor talk about how that could even be done with power |
| 20:05.21 | fozzmoo | Yeah- free market has been brutal to our country. |
| 20:05.30 | unum | but his idea created too much work for me |
| 20:05.41 | unum | because I wouldn't have |
| 20:21.47 | herlo | yay, I get to go to the CTO Breakfast this month! |
| 20:22.04 | Jayce^ | herlo, I might be going too |
| 20:22.10 | elg | i might not |
| 20:22.13 | herlo | Jayce^: cool, we can chat there some |
| 20:22.20 | herlo | elg: I bet that might be the case |
| 20:44.15 | *** join/#utah emcnabb (n=emcnabb@draco.mcnabbs.org) |
| 20:46.39 | atoponce | what's a good bandwidth throttling tool for linux? something where i can throttle any network-based tool, such as apt-get or bittorent or wget? |
| 20:47.02 | maquis | ~beat emcnabb |
| 20:47.03 | ibot | ACTION beats emcnabb with a dripping-wet & less-than-fresh fish |
| 20:47.57 | ^Migs^ | I'd like to know one, too |
| 20:48.30 | atoponce | seems to me i used one a number of years ago, but can't remember it's name |
| 20:48.46 | atoponce | but you would use the command in front of another |
| 20:48.59 | atoponce | <throttle> -s 100K apt-get update |
| 20:49.01 | atoponce | for example |
| 20:49.17 | sontek | atoponce: QoS? |
| 20:49.21 | Tene | I'd be very surprised if something like that existed. |
| 20:49.26 | Tene | Pleased, but also surprised. |
| 20:50.26 | Jayce^ | but no name |
| 20:50.43 | atoponce | i've used it, so i know it exists, just can't recall the name |
| 20:50.47 | maquis | atoponce: i've heard of one |
| 20:50.54 | maquis | but i don't know what it's called |
| 20:51.00 | atoponce | sontek: doesn't seem familiar |
| 20:51.10 | sontek | I think you can do what you are talking about with just QoS but you'd have to do the research |
| 20:52.09 | sontek | we used to use QoS when I had 6 roommates so we all had equal bandwidth |
| 20:52.44 | Tene | But some more equal than others? ;) |
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| 20:53.57 | atoponce | trickle |
| 20:53.59 | atoponce | that's it |
| 20:54.46 | sontek | atoponce: http://gentoo-wiki.com/HOWTO_Packet_Shaping |
| 20:56.50 | Tene | atoponce: link? |
| 20:59.57 | atoponce | Tene: http://monkey.org/~marius/pages/?page=trickle |
| 20:59.58 | brac | [trickle] |
| 21:00.00 | sontek | I think using iptables/qos for shaping your traffic is the more accepted way |
| 21:01.07 | sontek | because QoS is actually already in the kernel |
| 21:02.00 | *** join/#utah emcnabb (n=emcnabb@draco.mcnabbs.org) |
| 21:07.06 | Tene | http://polyscience.org/2005/09/cymothoa-exigua/ |
| 21:09.18 | herlo | http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Traffic-Control-HOWTO/index.html |
| 21:10.36 | *** part/#utah ^Migs^ (n=Migs@205.122.50.234) |
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| 21:19.26 | sontek | herlo: thats what my link was, it was just better documentation =) |
| 21:20.55 | herlo | sontek: it was? |
| 21:21.05 | herlo | sontek: it seemed very differnt |
| 21:23.01 | herlo | wget can do something like that, but doesn't wrap things... |
| 21:23.06 | herlo | oop |
| 21:23.08 | herlo | s |
| 21:23.39 | sontek | yeah, but thats limited to 1 app rather than doing it for everything |
| 21:27.27 | herlo | sontek: I know, its a different conversation |
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| 21:30.02 | Supaplex | if locate+updatedb would work on real-life-objects... $ locate my-tiger-osx-x86-install-dvds |
| 21:30.59 | sontek | Supaplex: girlfriends have built in locate support some how, i'm like 'locate car-keys' and shes like 'on the kitchen table' |
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| 21:31.56 | Supaplex | hehe |
| 21:32.33 | Supaplex | i hear the upgrade path on girlfreind is a pretty rocky... |
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| 21:48.06 | elg | so DVD{-,+}R is about 8 cents a gig, and hard drives are about 35 to 50 cents a gig |
| 21:48.28 | elg | am I making some vital miscalculation? |
| 21:49.59 | *** join/#utah decriptor (n=sshaw@161.28.255.9) |
| 21:53.36 | sontek | elg: you going to make a raid array have DVD{-,+}R's ? |
| 21:53.45 | Supaplex | hehe |
| 21:53.47 | sontek | s/have/of |
| 21:54.25 | Supaplex | -chat about dvd |
| 21:54.26 | brac | dvd was |
| 21:56.15 | *** join/#utah TimRiker (n=timr@216.49.181.128) |
| 21:56.16 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 21:56.52 | elg | no, thinking about backing up stuff |
| 21:57.12 | elg | dvd would be fine - infrequent access of the sort that removable media is great for |
| 21:59.38 | rsimpkins | Woot for Omniture! |
| 21:59.53 | sontek | Omniture is n00b! |
| 22:00.46 | rsimpkins | Omniture is going to acquire our largest/best competitor. |
| 22:00.59 | sontek | nice, whos that? |
| 22:01.01 | *** part/#utah bonez44 (n=scott@c-71-195-243-49.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 22:01.08 | sontek | Omniture is going to take over the world at this rate |
| 22:01.10 | rsimpkins | VSCN - visual sciences/websidestory |
| 22:04.40 | Jayce^ | funny, we just were looking at switching :) |
| 22:05.00 | rsimpkins | Jayce^: hehe. :) |
| 22:05.17 | rsimpkins | Jayce^: Let me know if there is something I can do to rattle the right cage for you over here. |
| 22:09.30 | dataw0lf | w/in 4 |
| 22:13.00 | levi | elg: discs, even optical ones, have a tendency to go bad. I'm not sure how burned DVDs fare compared to burned CDs, though. |
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| 22:20.15 | Tene | Would you prefer female enhancement spam? |
| 22:20.17 | Jayce^ | well, if you hadn't pulled it all out of the spam folder in the first place... |
| 22:21.00 | mrpull | i'm going to illogically claim it must be due to the IMAP support |
| 22:50.56 | unum | I was thinking about that today. I can't think of any spam I'v received targeted at women |
| 22:51.15 | mrpull | no nigerian scams? |
| 22:51.23 | unum | maybe because they're used to buying embarrassing products at the grocery store... |
| 22:51.34 | unum | I thought those were gender neutral |
| 22:52.11 | mrpull | i'll save the sexest remark for different company |
| 22:54.09 | unum | I will admit the only person I've ever heard of falling for it was a woman |
| 22:54.21 | herlo | mrpull: sexist |
| 22:54.29 | unum | she was stealing money from her employer(a bank) |
| 22:54.39 | herlo | unum: wow |
| 22:54.52 | JoshH | women are too busy falling for the "forward this cute story to 25 people and you will be blessed" stuff |
| 22:55.22 | Tene | I can't figure out how to get YAML to respect YAML::UseBlock |
| 22:55.47 | unum | my ex kept sending me stuff until I showed her snopes |
| 22:56.11 | unum | then she emailed all of her online friends and asked them to stop forwarding it since it was fake |
| 22:56.21 | levi | I love snopes for beating down people who forward crap. |
| 22:56.26 | unum | ya |
| 22:56.44 | unum | I couldn't believe she believed so much of it |
| 23:01.26 | *** join/#utah stockton (n=jon@out.lnxi.com) |
| 23:01.52 | stockton | why is that when i run "cat <file> >> /dev/mem" that my system crashes or freezes up? |
| 23:02.34 | stockton | And another thing, what is a good way to use alot of memory? |
| 23:02.39 | levi | Why would you do such a thing? |
| 23:02.46 | stockton | Test |
| 23:02.57 | stockton | Why wouldn't I do such a thing |
| 23:03.01 | levi | Well, the former is not a good way to accomplish the latter. |
| 23:03.24 | levi | Are you just trying to exercise all the RAM, or what? |
| 23:03.33 | stockton | um... |
| 23:03.42 | unum | wow according to a federal report 1300 people fell for the nigerian scam for an average of $5,000 a piece |
| 23:03.42 | stockton | yes, basically |
| 23:04.10 | levi | Is memtest86 not usable? |
| 23:04.52 | stockton | hm... i dont know |
| 23:04.56 | stockton | where would it be? |
| 23:05.05 | levi | -stockton You work at LNXI, right? |
| 23:05.06 | brac | no clue |
| 23:05.15 | levi | Heh, oops. |
| 23:05.16 | stockton | haha |
| 23:05.28 | stockton | does brasto tell everything out |
| 23:05.48 | levi | No, IRC tells us your hostname when you connect. |
| 23:05.57 | stockton | oh duh, |
| 23:06.13 | stockton | well then, no i snuk into the building, and took over someones rig |
| 23:06.42 | levi | The hardware validation guys, and Charles Port in particular, will probably have some tools handy for you. |
| 23:07.26 | stockton | are you the same levi that isn't wokring here anymore then? |
| 23:07.34 | levi | Yup, that would be me. |
| 23:07.53 | stockton | man, Brian told me to go back in time and ask you a question |
| 23:08.01 | stockton | yet, i don't know what the question was though |
| 23:08.18 | levi | Heh. Something about IPMI, I imagine. |
| 23:08.30 | stockton | i think it was |
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| 23:37.24 | stockton | Well, the question I had earlier though, why is that when i run "cat <file> >> /dev/mem" that my system crashes or freezes up? |
| 23:38.58 | Supaplex | well duh? you're replacing contents of running system memory with your file. |
| 23:39.20 | stockton | not "replacing", I was "appending" |
| 23:39.33 | Supaplex | oh I see. |
| 23:39.54 | Supaplex | sounds like you'd need to run a debugger on the kernel to figure that one out :P |
| 23:40.31 | stockton | or something |
| 23:40.33 | Supaplex | my first hunch is it's causing an NMI |
| 23:40.42 | stockton | NMI? |
| 23:40.52 | stockton | Nodal Memory Infusion...hm... |
| 23:41.37 | goozbach | stockton: you're trying to use up memory? |
| 23:41.47 | goozbach | why not use a malloc bomb |
| 23:41.53 | goozbach | ? |
| 23:41.58 | stockton | cause i never heard of a malloc bomb |
| 23:42.06 | Supaplex | non-maskable interrupt |
| 23:42.07 | stockton | whats it? |
| 23:42.26 | Supaplex | while (malloc(1)) {}; or something. |
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| 23:42.56 | stockton | Supaplex, thats what i figured, just without intelligent terms |
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| 23:43.46 | brac | findlay wishes grub could boot into a long time |
| 23:49.23 | sontek | synic: osx has read support for ntfs |