| 00:03.00 | Supaplex | I bet its loaded with pixels |
| 00:03.59 | *** join/#utah Lakshmi (n=chatzill@unaffiliated/lakshmi) |
| 00:05.01 | beandog | no more jokes? |
| 00:05.03 | beandog | :@ |
| 00:05.18 | Supaplex | shadowwire lefted |
| 00:06.21 | Supaplex | ~joke |
| 00:06.22 | ibot | What's a chicken coupe with 4 doors - a Chicken Sedan! |
| 00:06.50 | beandog | ~joke |
| 00:06.51 | ibot | A bhuddist monk goes to a hot dog vendor and says "Make me one with everything!" |
| 00:07.08 | beandog | I dont get it |
| 00:07.13 | Supaplex | me either |
| 00:07.17 | beandog | ~joke |
| 00:07.18 | ibot | What's a chicken coupe with 4 doors - a Chicken Sedan! |
| 00:07.28 | Supaplex | ~joke |
| 00:07.28 | ibot | What's a chicken coupe with 4 doors - a Chicken Sedan! |
| 00:07.31 | beandog | meh |
| 00:09.05 | Supaplex | -chat what |
| 00:09.06 | brac | what went into a harleypig-sized speedo and sends it to factory settings |
| 00:09.22 | Supaplex | I'm not sure I want to know :-D |
| 00:09.24 | harleypig | heh |
| 00:10.35 | Supaplex | -chat did |
| 00:10.36 | brac | did is the license |
| 00:19.21 | decriptor | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:31.26 | sontek | decriptor: you could politely ask them to turn it down :) |
| 00:31.42 | decriptor | more like turn off their phone |
| 00:33.48 | maquis | decriptor: rough day? |
| 00:33.57 | decriptor | yes and no |
| 00:34.15 | maquis | decriptor: they play games while the rest of us are at user-group meetings and on irc |
| 00:34.27 | maquis | anyway, i'm going to try to make it out the door before the next bus |
| 00:34.41 | decriptor | I've been laid off, which doesn't help, but doesn't understand that someone doesn't understand that not everyone wants to listen to them play WoW or whatever it is |
| 00:39.01 | Sargun | How do you supply a directory to RPM where to find dependencies? |
| 00:40.28 | nick125 | Sargun: You don't. |
| 00:40.52 | Sargun | haha |
| 00:41.00 | Sargun | I know emcnabb said it in hi RH033 class |
| 00:41.15 | nick125 | That'd intelligent on RPM's part, which is impossible :P |
| 00:43.43 | nick125 | I hate people that send password-protected PDFS |
| 00:51.02 | sontek | I had people |
| 00:51.11 | maquis | sontek: for dinner? |
| 00:51.37 | maquis | mmm... soylent green |
| 00:51.59 | sontek | hate! |
| 00:52.17 | sontek | soylent green is people too? |
| 00:59.55 | sontek | I want to eat though |
| 01:00.10 | maquis | i thought you said you had people for dinner |
| 01:00.22 | sontek | All the talk about eating people made me hungry |
| 01:00.28 | sontek | ~eat herlo |
| 01:00.29 | ibot | ACTION eats herlo and falls over dead |
| 01:00.51 | maquis | hmmm herlo must be kobold |
| 01:03.39 | sontek | good thing ibot took the first bite |
| 01:05.09 | Sargun | God, I HATE FREAKING POS FREAKING RPM |
| 01:05.13 | Sargun | ~lart rpm |
| 01:05.13 | ibot | slaps rpm upside and over the head with one freakishly huge killer whale named hugh |
| 01:06.56 | fozzmoo | Sargun: Could it be you misunderstand something? |
| 01:06.57 | nick125 | Sargun: Tell me who this reminds you of: http://worsethanfailure.com/Articles/I-Told-You-So.aspx |
| 01:07.37 | maquis | ~lart nick125 |
| 01:07.37 | ibot | whacks nick125 upside the head |
| 01:09.54 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@216.31.27.110) |
| 01:09.55 | brac | Wyoming just passed by 20 minutes from Weber. |
| 01:10.41 | maquis | brac: really? |
| 01:10.42 | brac | ...eh? |
| 01:15.18 | Supaplex | must be that new earthquake. makes no shockwaves or something. ;) |
| 01:15.51 | goozbach | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:15.58 | fozzmoo | ??? |
| 01:16.03 | goozbach | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:16.40 | goozbach | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:16.55 | fozzmoo | Whew. |
| 01:17.05 | goozbach | worried about the wedding not happening? |
| 01:17.10 | fozzmoo | Dude, she can eat sitting on the floor, man. |
| 01:17.19 | fozzmoo | But how can you possibly exist without a T61P?! |
| 01:17.23 | fozzmoo | That just doesn't make any sense. |
| 01:17.34 | goozbach | it'll be here tomorrow!!! |
| 01:17.36 | fozzmoo | Plus, the dining room set will happen in a couple months. |
| 01:17.40 | goozbach | yay!!!!! |
| 01:17.49 | Supaplex | hah |
| 01:19.46 | goozbach | the other bad news... I can't go out to eat ANYTIME before nov 20th |
| 01:19.54 | fozzmoo | goozbach: From a man who made mistakes who made mistakes early on in my marriage... |
| 01:19.57 | fozzmoo | send the laptop back. |
| 01:20.11 | fozzmoo | Marriage is all about being unselfish. Don't get started on the wrong foot. |
| 01:20.25 | Supaplex | it's not his marriage tho :P |
| 01:20.26 | goozbach | which is hard for me, cause I never get up early enough to make a sandwidch |
| 01:20.49 | goozbach | fozzmoo: I planned on it |
| 01:21.12 | fozzmoo | I'm speaking NOT as a puppet being controlled by my wife who is in the same room. |
| 01:21.16 | fozzmoo | I'm NOT. I swear, I'm not! |
| 01:21.27 | fozzmoo | That's just .... impossible. |
| 01:21.30 | goozbach | fozzmoo: blink twice if she is standing over your sholder |
| 01:23.01 | fozzmoo | Dang contacts. |
| 01:23.04 | fozzmoo | I hate it when they do that. |
| 01:23.23 | fozzmoo | NEW FOZZOLOG! |
| 01:24.54 | sontek | tell her restaurants having tables and chairs you can dine on |
| 01:27.15 | fozzmoo | hehheh. |
| 01:27.33 | fozzmoo | WalMart has really, really good prices on folding tables and chairs. |
| 01:30.03 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@216.31.27.110) |
| 01:30.04 | brac | What do you kill X from a cron job to realize that he was a milf? |
| 01:32.16 | elg | -metar kcle |
| 01:32.17 | brac | KCLE 230051Z 19007KT 10SM -RA OVC070 19/10 A2996 RMK AO2 RAB26 SLP143 P0000 T01940100 $ |
| 01:41.27 | Tene | I've been really disappointed with Heroes this far this season. |
| 01:41.42 | elg | not so heroic? |
| 01:41.57 | sontek | I was disappointed the last episode of last season :/ |
| 01:42.12 | fozzmoo | Tene: You're not the only one. |
| 01:42.32 | fozzmoo | I know people who have decided to just stop watching it and let them pool up on the DVR |
| 01:42.44 | fozzmoo | It's been kind of hard to watch them week to week. |
| 01:43.18 | Tene | I guess I'll download this week's ep... we'll see how it goes. |
| 01:43.22 | elg | looks like san diego is about to burn dow |
| 01:43.23 | elg | n |
| 01:43.41 | fozzmoo | So much for "it's 70 all year round." |
| 01:44.00 | fozzmoo | (Except for this week when it's 700) |
| 01:48.35 | herlo | what happened? |
| 01:51.18 | elg | dunno, http://news.google.com/news?q=san+diego+fire&num=50&hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&hs=XAo&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=X&oi=news_result&resnum=1&ct=title |
| 01:51.37 | elg | my cousin sent an email to the family about them being ok. he included a map of the areas. pretty big |
| 01:52.07 | elg | http://hans.fugal.net/tmp/SanDiegoFires.jpg |
| 01:52.41 | elg | funny how the fire stops at mexico. mexico must be fireproof |
| 01:53.30 | Supaplex | they've got their own kind of fire. mexican food. |
| 01:53.45 | herlo | elg: on my treo |
| 01:53.56 | herlo | elg: summay? |
| 01:54.14 | herlo | s/ay/ary/g |
| 01:55.20 | elg | ne and se of town |
| 01:55.34 | elg | looks like not as big as the 2003 fires were... yet |
| 01:56.15 | herlo | oh, a lot of people evacuated? |
| 02:00.43 | elg | yup |
| 02:04.08 | maquis | yeah... i've got family on vacation in san diego |
| 02:04.18 | maquis | they're trying to come up with something else to do instead |
| 02:09.03 | goozbach | life lession of the day: Just because you *CAN* do something... Doesn't mean you *SHOULD*. |
| 02:09.36 | goozbach | oh and DAMN YOU FOZZMOO! |
| 02:09.52 | goozbach | making me feel all guilty |
| 02:10.02 | goozbach | ~language goozbach |
| 02:10.03 | ibot | ACTION grabs goozbach by the ear and washes goozbach's mouth out with soap |
| 02:10.07 | goozbach | sorry folks |
| 02:10.25 | elg | goozbach: otoh, if you don't get it now it might be years before you can afford another one |
| 02:10.30 | elg | but I guess you have a Real Job |
| 02:10.35 | elg | ™ |
| 02:10.50 | goozbach | I do have a real job |
| 02:10.59 | goozbach | as a Sr sys admin at a fortune 500 company |
| 02:11.10 | goozbach | I would be able to afford it again in just a few months |
| 02:11.36 | goozbach | problem is, the WUXGA+ screen isn't availble right now |
| 02:11.57 | goozbach | and I doubt it will be again, all the problems they've had with it |
| 02:12.14 | *** join/#utah peno_ (i=peno@peno.com) |
| 02:13.06 | Supaplex | ~lart WUXGA+ screen issues |
| 02:13.06 | ibot | whacks WUXGA+ screen issues with the cluebat |
| 02:13.22 | elg | geek+marriage means her learning to put up with you and you learning to get off the computer. it won't be much different whether you have a laptop or not |
| 02:13.32 | Supaplex | not sure that'll help, ibot... |
| 02:14.11 | goozbach | I should have queued up HL2e2 an hour ago |
| 02:14.23 | Supaplex | e2? |
| 02:14.37 | Supaplex | oh wait. I need windows for that |
| 02:14.41 | goozbach | half life two, episidoe two |
| 02:15.04 | goozbach | I wanted to play a bit before I went to bed, but it's still an hour away downloading right now |
| 02:15.15 | Supaplex | nm windows, but ... I have stuff to do |
| 02:15.32 | Supaplex | awwweee poor thing :P |
| 02:15.42 | goozbach | bad day, huh? |
| 02:16.09 | goozbach | ok so before I get too mheath on ya all, I'll shutup about my personal life |
| 02:16.52 | Supaplex | yeah, it's been a rough monday. details at 11. |
| 02:17.23 | *** join/#utah PRoGRaMMeRQ (n=Jeff@2001:5c0:8fff:fffe:0:0:0:63d5) |
| 02:17.39 | herlo | goozbach: I tihnkwe've all had a rough day today |
| 02:17.44 | Supaplex | oh great, the programmer for the Q is here. |
| 02:17.55 | PRoGRaMMeRQ | lol |
| 02:18.05 | herlo | ~lart PRoGRaMMeRQ |
| 02:18.05 | ibot | wallops PRoGRaMMeRQ with a main rotation server that needs rehubbing. It won't take long |
| 02:18.10 | PRoGRaMMeRQ | I've actually never heard that one before |
| 02:18.20 | Supaplex | nice :) |
| 02:18.43 | PRoGRaMMeRQ | I've been using this nick for a good 7 years now too. =P |
| 02:19.09 | Supaplex | cool. it's the first thing that came to mind. |
| 02:19.30 | elg | the first thing that came to my mind was that he was related to TheTiGuR |
| 02:19.58 | elg | i figured out why san diego is burning |
| 02:20.09 | Supaplex | well, besides the blood that keeps pumping .. ahh nm, that's so lame shadowwire would moan. |
| 02:20.26 | elg | xmms2 has been released. that means there's a thermal imbalance in hades. all that heat had to go somewhere |
| 02:25.46 | goozbach | I'm seeing nothing on xmms.org about xmms2 |
| 02:26.24 | elg | ~google xmms2 |
| 02:26.27 | elg | because it 's a fork |
| 02:26.39 | elg | -google xmms2 |
| 02:26.40 | brac | xmms2: http://wiki.xmms2.xmms.se/ |
| 02:26.53 | goozbach | ahh |
| 02:26.56 | goozbach | a fork |
| 02:27.10 | elg | so technically hell didn't freeze over. it just got a little chilly |
| 02:27.33 | Supaplex | -chat fork |
| 02:27.33 | brac | fork did |
| 02:27.45 | elg | -chat |
| 02:27.47 | brac | send them encrypted email |
| 02:28.30 | Supaplex | -chat about the time brac spoke in whole sentences and didn't complain about improper usage |
| 02:28.30 | brac | incorrect usage, ask for help using 'brac: help chat' |
| 02:28.33 | Supaplex | ;) |
| 02:31.49 | *** join/#utah fozzmoo (n=fozz@166-70-238-250.ip.xmission.com) |
| 02:34.07 | Supaplex | i'll moo later ok? thanks. |
| 02:35.20 | *** join/#utah TheTiGuR (n=chris@206.251.255.118) |
| 03:16.08 | *** join/#utah peno (i=peno@peno.com) |
| 03:21.44 | *** part/#utah Nja1 (n=Trent@c-67-161-220-152.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 03:28.25 | *** join/#utah Sargun (n=Sargun@atarack/staff/sargun) |
| 03:33.57 | *** join/#utah Heartsbane (n=hearts@166-70-210-101.ip.xmission.com) |
| 03:43.20 | Supaplex | ~onjoin Supaplex (1|2|3) |
| 03:43.20 | ibot | Supaplex: ok |
| 03:43.23 | *** part/#utah Supaplex (n=e@166-70-62-194.ip.xmission.com) |
| 03:43.23 | *** join/#utah Supaplex (n=e@166-70-62-194.ip.xmission.com) |
| 03:43.26 | Supaplex | bleh. |
| 03:43.35 | Supaplex | ~onjoin Supaplex -chat ~lart |
| 03:43.35 | ibot | Supaplex: ok |
| 03:47.04 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@216.31.27.110) |
| 03:47.05 | brac | Back awake ;-) |
| 03:47.46 | rsimpkins | I am so SICK and TIRED of comcast - but it's just dawg-on fast for me. |
| 03:48.17 | rsimpkins | I wish the people who live in Lehi would kick out the city council and elect people who have a clue - so we can get Utopia going. |
| 03:49.38 | Supaplex | ~lart Lehi city council |
| 03:49.38 | ibot | slaps Lehi city council around with a large trout |
| 03:50.01 | rsimpkins | Anyone know of a decent DSL provider? I can't remember the specific name, but someone was saying something like c-solutions? |
| 03:50.11 | Tene | XMission |
| 03:50.23 | rsimpkins | I think these guys are supposed to be better. |
| 03:50.37 | Supaplex | ~qwest-- |
| 03:50.43 | Supaplex | ~msn-- |
| 03:50.45 | elg | nobody's better than xmission |
| 03:50.52 | Supaplex | localhost is! |
| 03:52.22 | rsimpkins | From what someone was telling me this company is supposedly better than xmission. X mission is great, these guys are supposed to be just a touch above great. |
| 03:52.40 | rsimpkins | But I can't remember their name - so their marketing isn't as great. :) |
| 03:59.02 | Supaplex | rsimpkins: http://wikiscanner.virgil.gr/name2ip.php?location=Lehi,%20Utah |
| 03:59.04 | brac | [Looking for organizations...] |
| 04:00.06 | Supaplex | rsimpkins: not what you need. just something I ran into while looking for qwest's list of dsl providers (I think they axed that page) |
| 04:08.44 | *** join/#utah decriptor (n=sshaw@sshaw.fttp.xmission.com) |
| 04:22.11 | sontek | rsimpkins: Did you figure out the google.com resolving issue? |
| 04:27.32 | rsimpkins | sontek: It worked today, then back again. i can see for sure that it is comcast's dns servers. |
| 04:27.47 | rsimpkins | if I try to resolve google.com I get nothing. If I resolve google.com. it works. :) |
| 04:28.13 | Supaplex | fishy /etc/resolv.conf+search domains? |
| 04:28.37 | sontek | rsimpkins: my friend in murray has the same issue, but google.com does resolve, but he still can't access it for some reason |
| 04:28.47 | sontek | but when we ad 4.2.2.1 as a nameserver it works just fine |
| 04:28.49 | rsimpkins | Yeah, comcast is up to no good I tell you. |
| 04:28.59 | sontek | but my comcast works fine with google :P |
| 04:29.01 | rsimpkins | I just assume switch providers - vote with my dollars. :) |
| 04:29.11 | Supaplex | ~lart comcast+spyware+taxes+stuff |
| 04:29.11 | ibot | takes out a seltzer bottle and sprays comcast+spyware+taxes+stuff in the face. You know, one of those old-school seltzer bottles clowns have? Yeah those. Anyway, consider yourself spritzed |
| 04:29.22 | rsimpkins | I don't want them cutting me off when I download 60GB in a month - or whatever the new limit is. |
| 04:31.53 | rsimpkins | I have the solution... time to roll my own DNS server! Yea linux! |
| 04:32.15 | rsimpkins | Anyone wanna take bets how long it takes to set it up? |
| 04:32.26 | Supaplex | ask comcast for a kickback for running your down dns ;) |
| 04:32.31 | JoshH | 53 seconds |
| 04:33.17 | rsimpkins | done |
| 04:33.18 | rsimpkins | :) |
| 04:33.21 | rsimpkins | What was my time? |
| 04:33.23 | Supaplex | setup correctly? install? download? |
| 04:33.33 | Supaplex | :p |
| 04:33.34 | rsimpkins | Setup correctly - all set - yup. |
| 04:33.38 | rsimpkins | even secured. |
| 04:34.15 | JoshH | your own dns server is the only way to go |
| 04:34.21 | sontek | I need to learn how to setup dns, herlo runs my dns right now |
| 04:35.15 | JoshH | it's pretty easy |
| 04:35.40 | Supaplex | ~setup dns |
| 04:39.53 | rsimpkins | here is that DSL provider I was looking for: http://www.csolutions.net/ |
| 04:39.55 | brac | [CSolutions Internet | The Northwest's Internet Service Provider since 1995] |
| 04:40.42 | rsimpkins | Several of the guys at work swear by it. When you have more than three Sr. Linux guys tell you something rocks - you pay attn. :) |
| 04:42.25 | fozzmoo | Computer Solutions is okay. |
| 04:42.30 | fozzmoo | They're no XMission, but they're alright. |
| 04:45.26 | sontek | the only Internet provider I've ever been happy with was @Home, we need to bring them back |
| 04:46.11 | rsimpkins | @home was pretty good. |
| 04:46.15 | fozzmoo | sontek: Heh heh. |
| 04:46.19 | fozzmoo | Yeah. They were great. |
| 04:46.45 | fozzmoo | Every company that took over after them halved the bandwidth and doubled the rate. |
| 04:47.22 | Supaplex | fozzmoo: so now you're 20gbits and only 5gb/mo ? |
| 04:47.27 | Supaplex | ;) |
| 04:47.45 | fozzmoo | ~lart Supaplex |
| 04:47.45 | ibot | teaches Supaplex the basics, including how to RTM |
| 04:48.02 | fozzmoo | The MONTHLY RATE! |
| 04:48.13 | Supaplex | *laugh* |
| 04:49.35 | fozzmoo | I dunno about anyone else, but I dug tonight's episode of Heroes. |
| 04:55.32 | levi | rsimpkins: Where in Lehi do you live? |
| 04:56.07 | rsimpkins | west side. |
| 04:56.36 | levi | North or South? |
| 04:56.51 | levi | I moved to Lehi a few months ago. |
| 04:58.02 | rsimpkins | I'm out in the junky house farm off main street. |
| 04:58.08 | rsimpkins | out about 2000W. |
| 04:58.28 | rsimpkins | Well, the 'not $400k/home' farm. :) |
| 04:59.15 | levi | Heh, yeah. |
| 04:59.37 | levi | I'm off main street too, at about 1300W. |
| 04:59.41 | rsimpkins | Suits my needs, and we have a 6 bed - so it fits our family. |
| 04:59.48 | rsimpkins | k, just down the street then. |
| 05:00.14 | levi | Mine's the one with the shingles flying off the roof... :/ |
| 05:01.03 | rsimpkins | I have a few of those. :) |
| 05:01.18 | rsimpkins | I'm going to install a stainless-steel roof - I swear. |
| 05:01.37 | rsimpkins | Poor house would probably collapse under the strain though. |
| 05:02.28 | *** join/#utah Lakshmi (n=chatzill@66-240-25-49.isp.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 05:09.04 | *** join/#utah kreg_lt (n=kreg@208.98.188.95) |
| 05:11.00 | Supaplex | buhuhaha. |
| 05:11.02 | Supaplex | [root@squid-fc7 ~]# locate vmware | tr '\n' '\0' | xargs -0 ls 2>/dev/null |
| 05:11.10 | Supaplex | man I <3 linux :-D |
| 05:12.19 | rsimpkins | Hurray - comcast fixes google again. |
| 05:12.21 | rsimpkins | woot. |
| 05:12.37 | rsimpkins | ~lart comcast the google-eater |
| 05:12.37 | ibot | stuffs comcast the google-eater into a shiny new tin can and vacuum seals it |
| 05:12.43 | Supaplex | rsimpkins: was it lame like clear cache+cookies? |
| 05:13.01 | rsimpkins | huh? |
| 05:13.21 | fozzmoo | So... fed up with constantly upgrading Fedora on servers, like my server at home... |
| 05:13.29 | fozzmoo | I installed CentOS5 on my new server. |
| 05:13.49 | fozzmoo | It's nice to know I won't have to upgrade the whole OS for several years, if I don't want to. |
| 05:13.59 | fozzmoo | But everything's so far out of date already! |
| 05:14.07 | fozzmoo | I feel like I'm rebuilding half the Perl modules on this box! |
| 05:14.27 | rsimpkins | fozzmoo: have you considered using DAG? |
| 05:14.28 | Supaplex | better or worse than debian stable? |
| 05:14.32 | fozzmoo | rsimpkins: Am. |
| 05:14.38 | rsimpkins | Hrm. |
| 05:14.46 | fozzmoo | Dag helps. |
| 05:14.57 | fozzmoo | Without Dag, I would be really, really, really upset. :) |
| 05:15.32 | fozzmoo | Supaplex: Dunno. Have never managed to run Debian on a box I cared about. |
| 05:16.12 | JoshH | Supaplex: worse, of course |
| 05:16.13 | fozzmoo | But I imagine it's a lot like that. |
| 05:16.27 | fozzmoo | Except isn't Debian Stable still on a 2.4 kernel? |
| 05:16.44 | Supaplex | no |
| 05:16.47 | JoshH | 2.6.18 |
| 05:16.59 | JoshH | good vintage |
| 05:17.00 | fozzmoo | Wow. They're off the 2.4 kernel now? Wow! progress is being made at last. |
| 05:17.03 | Supaplex | Linux armada 2.6.18-5-vserver-686 #1 SMP Wed Oct 3 02:29:27 UTC 2007 i686 GNU/Linux |
| 05:18.25 | JoshH | that's like saying doesn't centos still have dependency hell |
| 05:18.54 | JoshH | except less true |
| 05:19.10 | Supaplex | haha. I'm talking about oOOOLLlldddness |
| 05:21.04 | fozzmoo | Linux tic 2.6.18-8.1.14.el5 #1 SMP Thu Sep 27 19:05:32 EDT 2007 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux |
| 05:23.14 | Supaplex | humm .el smells like gentoo. right? |
| 05:23.25 | fozzmoo | Enterprise Linux |
| 05:23.40 | fozzmoo | CentOS is derived from RHEL |
| 05:24.25 | Supaplex | ahh |
| 05:26.15 | fozzmoo | Wahoo!!!! |
| 05:26.26 | fozzmoo | perl-DBIx-Class-Schema-Loader is now installed! |
| 05:27.00 | Tene | yay! |
| 05:28.33 | Supaplex | ~cheer for fozzmoo |
| 05:28.34 | ibot | ACTION cheers for fozzmoo on |
| 05:28.38 | fozzmoo | Thanks. |
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| 05:46.39 | rsimpkins | man qwest is a big nasty corporation. If you go to their site, choose 'other isps' and try to buy it without a phone number - you can't. |
| 05:47.01 | rsimpkins | it does the shell game on you and switches in their internet service instead. |
| 05:48.58 | Supaplex | what d0rkz |
| 05:50.23 | rsimpkins | Yeah, there is no way to order just a plain DSL connection online via their site unless you currently have a number. Even if you sign up for a new number you can't do it. |
| 05:50.57 | Supaplex | yeah. naked-dsl? |
| 05:51.30 | rsimpkins | Maybe they have you go through the isp on purpose - who know.s |
| 05:52.13 | rsimpkins | I just wanted to get a service request going since mornings are usually pretty busy for me. I don't find time to work on this kinda stuff until after 4pm. |
| 05:52.34 | rsimpkins | It'll probably still be weeks before they roll someone anyway. |
| 05:53.05 | Supaplex | no. just call their sales line |
| 05:54.17 | rsimpkins | You'd think with all the modern internet driven things out there the ISP of all people would have the ability to place an order online. |
| 05:54.29 | rsimpkins | Seems kinda obvious doesn't it? |
| 05:55.57 | Supaplex | yyyyYYYYyyyes |
| 06:00.01 | rsimpkins | I know we all like xmission - but why don't they have a simple order form to sign up for service. |
| 06:01.38 | rsimpkins | I'm not asking for instant turn on - just an order form that says 'we got your order - we'll be back to you in 1 business day. thanks' |
| 06:02.18 | rsimpkins | pay online even - but no sign up? |
| 06:06.42 | *** join/#utah Lakshmi (n=chatzill@unaffiliated/lakshmi) |
| 06:13.09 | Sargun | rsimpkins, don't you love jumping through hoops though? |
| 06:14.51 | Tene | rsimpkins: #xmloungs on irc.xmission.com ;) |
| 06:14.54 | Tene | erm |
| 06:15.01 | Tene | #xmlounge |
| 06:16.31 | Supaplex | or #xmstaff if you're looking for some excitement. |
| 06:16.35 | Supaplex | ;) |
| 06:43.56 | Sargun | How do you check if a variable is defined? |
| 06:44.34 | Supaplex | in perl? |
| 06:45.13 | Supaplex | if so, perldoc -f defined |
| 06:47.35 | Sargun | POS |
| 06:48.39 | Sargun | no, like on command line |
| 06:48.41 | Sargun | with GCC |
| 06:48.47 | Sargun | I have a .h file |
| 06:48.52 | Sargun | with an #ifdef |
| 06:49.00 | Sargun | I want it to throw a compile-time message if its defined. |
| 06:50.05 | Supaplex | ahh preprocessor. that's beyond me (I've dabbled, but I don't know) |
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| 07:03.13 | Lakshmi | hi people |
| 07:05.12 | Supaplex | ~wave |
| 07:05.12 | ibot | extra, extra, read all about it, wave is "later, sucka" |
| 07:05.19 | Supaplex | pff |
| 07:05.23 | Supaplex | hi Lakshmi |
| 07:05.25 | Supaplex | -chat |
| 07:05.26 | brac | ~wake blitzrage |
| 07:05.26 | ibot | ACTION throws a barrel-full of ice water on blitzrage and shouts "GOOD MORNING!!!!" |
| 07:05.31 | Lakshmi | hi Supaplex |
| 07:05.35 | Lakshmi | Supaplex!! |
| 07:06.25 | Supaplex | sup Lakshmi |
| 07:06.47 | Lakshmi | nm Supaplex |
| 07:06.49 | Lakshmi | u/ |
| 07:06.50 | Lakshmi | ? |
| 07:07.56 | Supaplex | fixing some network issues |
| 07:08.01 | Lakshmi | aw |
| 07:08.07 | Lakshmi | im watching that 70's show |
| 07:16.40 | Supaplex | I think I'm done for the night. http://bugs.debian.org/447691 |
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| 12:56.56 | redbeard2 | http://bashcurescancer.com/10-linux-commands-youve-never-used.html |
| 12:57.06 | redbeard2 | i've used 5 of those before. anyone else? |
| 12:57.40 | nick125 | I've used 7 of those. |
| 13:05.29 | jsmith | I've used eight |
| 13:06.13 | nick125 | I haven't used nl, col, or xmlwf. |
| 13:10.54 | jsmith | I haven't used col or mkfifo |
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| 13:11.53 | brac | what am I to question? |
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| 14:11.58 | tensai | jsmith-away: oh man, you haven't lived until you've mked a fifo |
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| 14:24.39 | jsmith | tensai: I've made a FIFO before... just not in Linux using mkfifo |
| 14:31.00 | goozbach | I've used every one of those |
| 14:31.48 | jsmith | goozbach: Well ain't you special! |
| 14:32.02 | jsmith | goozbach: Tell me -- when's the last time you really used col though... |
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| 14:36.41 | goozbach | in an intro to linux class |
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| 14:40.37 | Graphyx | Hey, who can tell me some schools that have a good computer science programs with classes that focus on networking, security, or network security? |
| 14:41.03 | Graphyx | I knom that most of you are from Utah, so you can skip the obvious ones here. |
| 14:42.50 | maquis | Graphyx: for outside of utah, the Univ of washington is pretty good... and waterloo in canada is a very good school for CS as well |
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| 14:59.41 | goozbach | ooom! |
| 14:59.55 | elg | ¡OOOOW |
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| 15:00.51 | goozbach | b00b! |
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| 15:14.15 | elg | ~onjoin fozzmoo Quack! |
| 15:14.15 | ibot | ok, elg |
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| 15:18.54 | brac | that's when the SEC that delists but the flight was booked on Jet Blue |
| 15:20.12 | findlay | -chat about ~onjoin findlay |
| 15:20.12 | brac | ~onjoin findlay -lart veracity |
| 15:20.13 | ibot | brac: ok |
| 15:20.17 | findlay | -chat about ~onjoin findlay |
| 15:20.17 | brac | ~onjoin findlay -chat that's when you weren't a heartless company and when someone else do you mean? |
| 15:20.17 | ibot | brac: ok |
| 15:28.42 | elg | -chat the end |
| 15:28.42 | brac | the end of your problems on the Tivo. |
| 15:31.13 | jsmith | -chat the beginning |
| 15:31.14 | brac | the beginning of two out yesterday while I was just thinking out loud at NIGHT soon |
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| 15:33.32 | elg | tensai: my blog thought a couple of your comments were spam .I wonder why |
| 15:33.34 | elg | rectified |
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| 15:34.13 | tensai | elg: that is replica rolex interesting. I'm not penis enlargement sure why. |
| 15:35.45 | elg | your comment about mindless eating is interesting. the only problem is that I can see where it's going - the same place as the (unpatched) hacker's diet |
| 15:36.10 | elg | the appetite can't tell 2000 kcal from 2100 kcal, but neither can the person without counting calories |
| 15:36.14 | elg | s/person/brain |
| 15:36.44 | elg | i'm still trying to figure out why "I think my bed is the last place I would saw sheep. Too messy." was thought to be spam |
| 15:37.03 | elg | is there a spam genre about sheep slaughtering that I haven't encountered? |
| 15:38.12 | tensai | elg: the point isn't to count calories but to reduce them without realizing it |
| 15:38.41 | jsmith | tensai: If you don't count them, how do you know you've reduced them (or reduced them *enough*)? |
| 15:38.44 | tensai | for example, use a smaller plate. you'll eat less but feel just as full |
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| 15:39.06 | tensai | leave the serving dish at the counter and not on the table. you'll be less likely to take seconds. |
| 15:39.28 | tensai | keep snacks out of sight. they truly will be out of mind and you'll eat fewer. |
| 15:40.06 | tensai | drink from a skinny glass rather than a short glass. you won't notice that you're drinking less. reverse that if you're just drinking water. |
| 15:40.12 | elg | tensai: i agree. but to play devil's advocate, if you're not counting them how do you know you're not compensating? |
| 15:41.06 | jsmith | elg: Exactly! How do you know you're not eating higher-calorie foods to make up for the smaller portions? |
| 15:41.10 | elg | but that is exactly the principle I'm using to "patch" hacker's diet. on over-line days I do smaller helpings, skip dessert, etc. little things that don't make me hungry, but are ever-so-conscientious |
| 15:41.34 | elg | drink water before meals. I think that's my own personal stroke of genious |
| 15:41.35 | tensai | I don't recall if he recommends counting calories or not. I don't think so. |
| 15:43.04 | tensai | jsmith: it's not like higher-calorie foods are going to sneak onto your plate. just eati the same thing you always do, but dish up less of it |
| 15:43.24 | tensai | if you make it too complicated or rigorous, you won't stick with it |
| 15:44.15 | elg | but if 'the same thing you always do' isn't rigorous then you can compensate subconsciously. but I agree that reducing portion size in general works. it becomes pretty obvious when you start eating all candy for dinner |
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| 15:45.18 | elg | i think the most important factor is just being conscious of it. if you eat a slightly smaller portion size, you're being conscious. if you drink shangri-la oil then you're conscious of what you eat as a side effect (because you don't want to be drinking oil for naught) |
| 15:45.42 | elg | knowing what you're eating is half the battle in knowing when to stop |
| 15:45.55 | jsmith | tensai: My problem is this... I'm not consistent. Some days I eat 2500 calories. Other days I eat 1500. |
| 15:46.18 | jsmith | tensai: I'm not a "three square meals a day" type of person. I'm a "eat when I'm hungry, don't when I'm not" kind of person. |
| 15:46.20 | elg | in a month, you'll have a 6000 calorie day. ;-) |
| 15:46.37 | jsmith | Sure... I'm sure I've had 6000 calorie days |
| 15:46.59 | elg | yeah, the 3rd thursday of every year |
| 15:47.02 | elg | er, november |
| 15:47.13 | jsmith | No, the 31st of Octember |
| 15:47.17 | tensai | mmm, 6000 calories |
| 15:47.33 | elg | i love octember |
| 15:48.12 | maquis | my caloric intake seems to rise and fall based on what i'm working on |
| 15:48.15 | elg | tensai: I think he's probably on the same path of convergence that the two books i reviewed are. steady reasonable sustainable |
| 15:48.24 | maquis | i have a hard time coding without a snack |
| 15:48.28 | elg | maquis: what about when you're working on a chair? |
| 15:48.54 | maquis | recently, i've tried frozen grapes when i'm working at night, and that seems to satisfy the snacking urge about as well as most other items |
| 15:48.55 | jsmith | maquis: For me, programming makes me thirsty. If I drink water while programming, I lose weight. If I drink soda/juice/smoothies, I gain weight |
| 15:49.17 | elg | if you drink hydrochloric acid, you get sick |
| 15:49.31 | sontek | eat grape fruit while programming |
| 15:49.50 | elg | eat celery. it takes more calories to digest than it gives you. but you might as well eat cardboard |
| 15:50.06 | sontek | same for grapefruit, if you can stand the taste |
| 15:50.12 | maquis | i think a lot of it for me is... i need to get used to eating different things from normal... i grew up with a good bit of junk food, and it's hard to switch off of it... particularly since i've never really been a big fan of fruits or veggies |
| 15:50.18 | elg | i love grapefruit, but it's way to messy to bring near a computer |
| 15:50.19 | tensai | elg: I heard that argued recently, that celery does have some caloric value |
| 15:50.29 | elg | mostly I like to mock celery |
| 15:50.41 | tensai | elg: what, snickers bars |
| 15:50.43 | sontek | I like celery with peanut butter on it |
| 15:50.44 | tensai | ? |
| 15:50.47 | elg | pickles are supposed to be good too |
| 15:50.53 | jsmith | Mmmmn... pickles |
| 15:50.59 | jsmith | ~pickle |
| 15:51.01 | elg | i like nuts. not low-calorie but filling |
| 15:51.18 | elg | but if the snacking is habit-driven not hunger-driven... |
| 15:51.18 | jsmith | elg: But high in fat... I love nuts too, but I've had to cut back |
| 15:51.22 | elg | good fat |
| 15:51.33 | jsmith | Yes, good fat, but still fat (and high sodium) |
| 15:51.43 | sontek | Mmm.. sodium |
| 15:51.50 | elg | sugar's a lot worse for ya than fat |
| 15:51.53 | sontek | speaking of sodium, Sunflower seeds are amazing |
| 15:51.59 | tensai | I'm so tired of this country's low fat fad |
| 15:52.01 | jsmith | It goes back to "Everything good in life is either illegal, immoral, or fattening. Anything not fitting one of those three categories causes cancer." |
| 15:52.07 | elg | in all the things that fat gets blamed for |
| 15:52.31 | elg | cholesterol. body fat. plus everything that sugar's bad for in the first place. blood sugar problems, etc. |
| 15:52.46 | tensai | low fat versions of foods often have more sugar than their high fat cousins |
| 15:53.19 | sontek | yeah but sugar tastes better than fat |
| 15:53.29 | elg | soon diabetes may be the #1 killer instead of cardiovascular disease. that's where the low-fat fad gets ya |
| 15:53.32 | tensai | there was a lady in the paper who wrote an opinion piece that ended with the statement that if she was God, she would make chocolate fudge oreos be fat free. |
| 15:53.38 | maquis | i don't know if anybody else noticed this, but the "healthy choice" tomato soup has about 2.5g fat, and the regular version is fat-free... |
| 15:53.52 | goozbach | elg: I loved the article " IF I WANTED TO STUDY, I |
| 15:53.52 | goozbach | WOULD HAVE GONE TO A |
| 15:53.52 | goozbach | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:53.54 | maquis | i think the only improvement the "healthy choice" version had was lower sodium |
| 15:53.55 | goozbach | " |
| 15:54.13 | elg | maquis: maybe 2.5g fat is the healthy choice |
| 15:54.18 | tensai | maquis: you should try my tomato soup. it's got a pint of cream in it. mmm |
| 15:54.21 | elg | goozbach: great article. thank levi :) |
| 15:54.27 | maquis | tensai: mmm... that sounds tasty |
| 15:54.35 | tensai | oh it's to die for |
| 15:54.41 | maquis | i like campbells with skim milk added in |
| 15:54.54 | maquis | but... yours sounds tasty |
| 15:55.10 | tensai | ~lart maquis |
| 15:55.10 | ibot | whips out his power stapler and staples maquis's foot to the floor |
| 15:55.18 | tensai | I wasn't getting hungry until you mentioned tomato soup |
| 15:55.59 | elg | btw everyone, today's scale said 10 lb lost |
| 15:56.05 | elg | (since I started) |
| 15:56.07 | maquis | elg: i tried making bread with soaking the wheat flour for a few hours... the bread came out really wet even after being baked... like... when we first cut it, it was just moist... but the next day when it was being used for a sandwich, it was almost soggy :( |
| 15:56.18 | maquis | i must've used too much water or something |
| 15:56.25 | maquis | and, it had trouble rising... |
| 15:56.33 | elg | explain this soaking thing |
| 15:56.55 | maquis | elg: well, i mixed some of the water in with a large percentage of the flour to develop the gluten |
| 15:57.11 | maquis | and then i left it that way, then came back and added the rest of the ingredients |
| 15:57.16 | maquis | is that the wrong way to do it? |
| 15:57.19 | elg | so an autolyse |
| 15:57.22 | elg | no, that's fine |
| 15:57.26 | maquis | hmmm... |
| 15:57.31 | maquis | i must've done something wrong |
| 15:57.33 | elg | how much flour and water did you have? |
| 15:57.42 | elg | to what internal temp. did you cook it? |
| 15:57.56 | maquis | i think i soaked 3 cups flour with 1.5 or 2 cups water |
| 15:58.05 | maquis | i didn't check internal temperature |
| 15:58.15 | elg | ok, what doneness test did you use? |
| 15:58.23 | maquis | i knocked on it |
| 15:58.35 | maquis | and it seemed done |
| 15:58.44 | maquis | and when i cut it after it had cooled for a few minutes, it seemed done |
| 15:58.54 | maquis | just a tad on the moist side |
| 15:58.57 | elg | whoa, 2 cups water for 3 cups flour? |
| 15:58.58 | maquis | (which i assumed was a good thing) |
| 15:59.08 | elg | how did you store it? |
| 15:59.14 | maquis | elg: yeah... for the soaking part |
| 15:59.18 | maquis | i added more flour after that |
| 15:59.23 | elg | oh. then how much more flour? |
| 15:59.31 | maquis | ended up using almost 6 cups of flour |
| 16:00.11 | elg | ok, the problem here is not method but willynillyness |
| 16:00.24 | maquis | ok... |
| 16:00.40 | elg | decide how much flour total you want. calculate how much water you'll need. add not quite that much (humidity might make that much water too much) |
| 16:00.53 | elg | then write it all down. then you'll know what to adjust the next time |
| 16:01.07 | maquis | hmmm... |
| 16:01.07 | elg | but too-wet dough isn't usually a problem, if you bake it long enough |
| 16:01.15 | maquis | yeah... |
| 16:01.22 | elg | if it seemed done when you cut it open, then it might just be a matter of how you stored it |
| 16:01.27 | elg | the loaf I mean |
| 16:01.49 | maquis | cut it up, left it in an uncovered plastic container overnight, then covered it and stuck it in the fridge |
| 16:02.02 | elg | well, never put it in the fridge |
| 16:02.06 | elg | unless you like stale bread |
| 16:02.36 | elg | i suppose, if it's quite moldy where you live you might get mold before fridge-induced stale |
| 16:02.54 | elg | that's a tradeoff in some places |
| 16:03.06 | elg | but unless you're fighting mold, never put bread in the fridge |
| 16:03.33 | elg | did you let it come to room temperature before observing the wetness? |
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| 16:05.44 | maquis | it was cold when i noticed the wetness... that was the next day with sandwiches |
| 16:06.10 | maquis | as far as why the refrigerator, around here, bread doesn't really get "stale"... it gets moldy |
| 16:06.41 | maquis | when i was in utah, i never needed to refrigerate the bread that i got, and it seemed to last forever compared to out here |
| 16:07.24 | elg | sourdough does some good battling mold |
| 16:08.14 | ^Migs^ | elg, in your opinion, would RoseGarden be the best music-producing Linux software to put on a computer for K-12 students? |
| 16:08.22 | ^Migs^ | if I had to choose just one or two? |
| 16:09.36 | ^Migs^ | I want to be able to introduce kids to something that will help them produce music, while being simple enough for a 6th grader |
| 16:10.10 | elg | if you mean sequencing/midi then yes |
| 16:11.10 | ^Migs^ | I'm thinking more about learning tracks and mixing the different recordings. We'd probably also have a physical mixer to go with it, too |
| 16:11.25 | elg | maquis: was it wet straight out of the fridge, or only after sitting for a few minutes? remember the cold glass effect. |
| 16:11.28 | ^Migs^ | they don't need to necessarily know the mechanics of MIDI. We'd have a MIDI keyboard attached to the PC, though |
| 16:11.46 | elg | cold <thing> + room temperature = condensation |
| 16:12.20 | elg | ^Migs^: but the general idea of sequencing or recording discrete data like keyboard presses? |
| 16:13.21 | elg | maquis: you might try cooking bread to a higher internal temp as a mold combatant too |
| 16:13.37 | elg | and/or baking smaller batches (i have to do that to avoid staling, since it's quite dry here) |
| 16:14.11 | elg | the two most awesome tools you can have are a good scale ($25) and a probe thermometer ($10) |
| 16:14.48 | maquis | :) |
| 16:15.48 | elg | 180° is done enough to eat. 190° is nice. 200° is slightly drier but still fine. 210° (at sea level) is the aim for artisan breads |
| 16:15.55 | sontek | they raided oink! |
| 16:16.06 | elg | if I were having mold problems I'd aim for at least 200° |
| 16:16.18 | elg | sontek: really? the riaa? |
| 16:16.41 | sontek | http://www.ifpi.org/content/section_news/20071023.html |
| 16:16.42 | ^Migs^ | mold is awesome |
| 16:16.43 | brac | [British and Dutch police raids shut down the world's largest pre-release pirate music site] |
| 16:17.06 | ^Migs^ | elg: Let me look at the Utah core curriculum again to see exactly what they need to learn |
| 16:18.22 | elg | i always thought that prerelease stuff was bad news |
| 16:19.20 | sontek | I never cared enough about music to grab prerelease, but I loved my oink :( |
| 16:19.37 | elg | i loved oink too. but I got kicked out for not visiting the web page enough |
| 16:19.52 | elg | never mind my seeding |
| 16:19.57 | ^Migs^ | Oink is gone?! |
| 16:20.24 | sontek | I had 200gb uploaded and only like 40gb downloaded, so they left my account alone |
| 16:20.43 | sontek | I picked up all my uploads during the christmas seasons when they don't count your downloads :P |
| 16:20.53 | ^Migs^ | oh crap |
| 16:20.56 | sontek | ^Migs^: yeah, he got raided |
| 16:21.00 | ^Migs^ | I hope they don't look at my account |
| 16:21.06 | ^Migs^ | I used that site a ton |
| 16:21.19 | sontek | say it wasn't you! |
| 16:22.45 | elg | maquis: http://www.amazon.com/Escali-Primo-Digital-Multifunctional-Chrome/dp/B0007GAWRS/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/104-9963078-7090337?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden&qid=1193156465&sr=8-1 |
| 16:23.16 | ^Migs^ | crap, maybe I shouldn't have visited the site either just now |
| 16:23.40 | elg | ~riaa ^Migs^ |
| 16:23.50 | ^Migs^ | how easy is it to trace activity from a DSL subscriber? |
| 16:24.19 | elg | i wouldn't freak out just yet. oink's in england or holland or something right? |
| 16:24.23 | elg | different jurisdictions |
| 16:24.29 | elg | but you might want to stop your oink seeds |
| 16:24.40 | synic | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:24.41 | ^Migs^ | uh yeah |
| 16:25.05 | ^Migs^ | yeah, I'm taking them off uTorrent right when I get home |
| 16:25.11 | maquis | elg: cool |
| 16:25.48 | maquis | elg: sea level is a good way to describe seattle :) |
| 16:25.58 | maquis | my parents live at 99 feet elevation |
| 16:26.12 | maquis | i live a bit higher... probably close to 200 |
| 16:26.14 | ^Migs^ | why were the Cleveland police involved? |
| 16:27.36 | Kemotaha | ^Migs^, hopefully you didn't use your normal user name and your wireless router is wide open |
| 16:27.49 | elg | yeah, if you get bread to 210° here, you're way past boiling point and your bread is way past dried out |
| 16:28.12 | elg | i'm guessing that's not cleveland ohio |
| 16:29.35 | elg | maquis: you live upstairs? |
| 16:30.17 | ^Migs^ | why would it matter what username I use? |
| 16:30.29 | ^Migs^ | hmmm |
| 16:30.32 | maquis | elg: live a short ways away |
| 16:30.33 | ^Migs^ | it's the same as my last.fm username |
| 16:30.46 | maquis | it's about 1.5-2 miles away |
| 16:30.50 | maquis | up a big hill |
| 16:30.54 | Kemotaha | just the case that the RIAA won was partly because the lady used her same username |
| 16:31.25 | sontek | just type /nick ^notMigs^ |
| 16:31.28 | sontek | you'll be ok |
| 16:31.30 | ^Migs^ | I'm pretty sure I put phone account details, though |
| 16:31.36 | ^Migs^ | *phony |
| 16:31.47 | Kemotaha | that |
| 16:31.50 | Kemotaha | s a plus |
| 16:31.59 | ^Migs^ | I really hope I did |
| 16:33.20 | elg | you'd better. here you are promoting linux for kids making their own music in schools. they're so going to relish going after you. kids making their own music with free tools? and probably sharing it with their friends instead of looking to hook up with riaa agents who will get them hooked on drugs and ruin their lives? heresy |
| 16:33.40 | Kemotaha | :) |
| 16:34.40 | ^Migs^ | utter blasphemy, I know |
| 16:34.47 | *** join/#utah beandog (n=steve@gentoo/developer/beandog) |
| 16:35.06 | ^Migs^ | are there any general music programs for kids you're aware of, elg? |
| 16:35.14 | ^Migs^ | I haven't come across any free ones yet |
| 16:35.15 | elg | what age? |
| 16:35.22 | ^Migs^ | let's say 7 and up |
| 16:35.30 | elg | and I assume you mean making music, not xmms |
| 16:36.19 | ^Migs^ | not listening to music. Any sort of music education program |
| 16:37.27 | maquis | audacity? |
| 16:38.23 | elg | like analogous to that math game where you drive a guy with a big square round jaw around to eat numbers? |
| 16:38.41 | maquis | what about math blaster? |
| 16:38.44 | ^Migs^ | haha, yeah |
| 16:38.57 | ^Migs^ | audacity is more a tool than something educational |
| 16:39.12 | maquis | ^Migs^: who's saying that a tool isn't educational? |
| 16:39.14 | ^Migs^ | although I think we generally want teachers doing the teaching anyway, so tools are probably good |
| 16:39.26 | ^Migs^ | no, I realize the two aren't mutually exclusive |
| 16:40.04 | maquis | i wish i had been given more "tools" when i was little |
| 16:40.12 | maquis | rather than just "edutainment" |
| 16:40.23 | elg | i'm still lost in the quagmire of generality |
| 16:40.51 | elg | music is such a huge field, there's really no way to recommend anything without some kind of goals or at least types of activity |
| 16:41.31 | maquis | ^Migs^: theory? creation? etc |
| 16:42.24 | elg | it's like the guy that comes in with a laptop who wants to learn to program "sudoku". does he need help with the rules of sudoku? need help choosing a language to use? need help learning to program in the first place? need help installing java on his machine? |
| 16:42.36 | elg | actually it was all of the above. and he needed help learning to shower |
| 16:42.36 | maquis | are they going to be told "go create something"? or are they going to end up getting asked quesitons like "what does a sixteenth note look like?" or "how many sharps are in the D minor scale?" |
| 16:42.39 | elg | but that's beside the point |
| 16:43.26 | tensai | maquis: I remember that was a problem when I lived in oregon. bread on the counter wouldn't last 3 days without going moldy. |
| 16:43.49 | maquis | tensai: yeah... |
| 16:43.55 | maquis | even store-bought bread doesn't last long at all |
| 16:43.59 | levi | So, it turns out that it's a bad thing when your mythtv backend IP address changes. |
| 16:44.04 | ^Migs^ | let's see. 4th graders mainly just learn how to keep a beat and move to it, and mess around with musical instruments. 5th graders need to understand different types of notes, e.g., whole notes, half notes, etc. 6th graders need to learn beat, rhythm, tempo. Maybe I could use some drum machine software for that. |
| 16:44.23 | ^Migs^ | in the 7th and 8th grades, it typically turns to electives in most public schools, but I'm not sure how this K-8 charter school will handle that |
| 16:44.30 | elg | maquis: what you need is a dry place. like a little magic bread box that sucks out all the moisture |
| 16:44.50 | elg | and you put the bread in a bag therein (to keep it fromsucking all the moisture out of your bread) |
| 16:45.41 | tensai | make had an article about a bread box that killed bacteria |
| 16:45.52 | levi | Let them play with Roland 303 emulators or something. ;) |
| 16:46.39 | *** join/#utah decriptor (n=sshaw@137.65.56.124) |
| 16:46.42 | elg | ^Migs^: can't be much help with educational software alas. but if you want to know about tools to do stuff |
| 16:47.04 | tensai | maquis: http://www.makezine.com/blog/archive/2006/08/diy_mold_resistant_ultraviolet.html |
| 16:47.05 | brac | [MAKE: Blog: DIY Mold resistant ultraviolet bread box] |
| 16:47.08 | elg | also not much help in remembering what it was like to learn it, since I took piano at age 5 on and was always just daydreaming in the corner during "music time" |
| 16:47.44 | tensai | elg: you spent a lot of time in the corner as a kid, didn't you |
| 16:48.49 | levi | I had a 3rd grade teacher that hated me because I was always daydreaming instead of paying attention to her. |
| 16:49.01 | maquis | urgh... it's really frustrating when people are asking for linux help, but can't figure stuff out |
| 16:49.07 | levi | It was only because she was BORING. :) |
| 16:49.08 | maquis | levi: lole |
| 16:49.12 | maquis | :) |
| 16:49.21 | levi | She thought I was ADD or something. |
| 16:49.25 | elg | i had a good 6th grade teacher. she let me work ahead in the math book |
| 16:49.40 | elg | while the rest of the class was learning fractions I was doing algebra |
| 16:49.45 | RyanE | our 7th grade math teacher let a group of us do the same. we would go to the library for the class time. |
| 16:49.46 | levi | My dad bought me extracurricular books to work on. |
| 16:49.49 | elg | i'd look up occasionally just to see what they were doing |
| 16:50.00 | elg | she even had me teach the class about a principle once |
| 16:50.02 | maquis | i had a lot of good teachers... generally, the best teachers were the ones who ended up with the smallest classes, or ones who let people work at different paces |
| 16:50.21 | maquis | when i was in elementary school, our math classes were always "work at your own pace" |
| 16:50.34 | RyanE | "eat your own paste?" |
| 16:50.45 | levi | One of my high school English teachers had me do her grading and had me read different books from the rest of the class, e.g. Moby Dick instead of Huck Finn. |
| 16:50.59 | maquis | we had to get assignments done at a specific rate, but if we could pass off a test, we could move on to the next section |
| 16:51.31 | maquis | so, most of the class was in algebra in 5th grade, and some of the kids were starting calculus in 7th |
| 16:51.31 | elg | ^Migs^: if it were me, and nobody gave me any directions, I'd A) teach them the standard music stuff traditionally, and B) set up some fun stuff for them to experiment with |
| 16:51.47 | levi | maquis: You weren't in public schools, were you? |
| 16:51.48 | elg | software synthesizers (since hardware ones are too expensive), with fun sounds. like zynaddsubfx maybe |
| 16:51.51 | maquis | levi: nope |
| 16:52.18 | levi | Not even the 'gifted' programs I was in as a kid were that flexible. They sure were more fun than normal classes, though. |
| 16:52.23 | maquis | :) |
| 16:52.46 | elg | i just barely didn't get into gifted. I was thinking in the shower that maybe that's why I'm getting a PhD, to show them. ;-) |
| 16:52.58 | levi | I think it's rather unfair that we got classes like that, since everyone probably could have benefitted from them. |
| 16:53.11 | levi | elg: I dropped out of the gifted track around 6th grade. |
| 16:53.23 | RyanE | I went to school before there *were* gifted kids. :) Back then, we were *all* stupid. |
| 16:53.52 | maquis | all my friends in high school had at least 1500 on the SAT except for myself and my best friend... |
| 16:53.54 | RyanE | My sister taught me how to read before I went to Kindergarten. |
| 16:54.04 | levi | elg: I guess I flunked the entrance IQ test for it or something. |
| 16:54.08 | RyanE | Being in Utah, we only took the ACT |
| 16:54.48 | maquis | weird.. |
| 16:54.57 | maquis | everyone at school thought i was crazy for taking the ACT |
| 16:55.10 | elg | ^Migs^: and other experiential sorts of programs. a basic tracker in conjunction with a tutorial, and other pattern-based ways of making music seem to be very rewarding for kids |
| 16:55.12 | RyanE | how did you do on the ACT's? |
| 16:55.24 | maquis | 34, iirc |
| 16:55.29 | levi | If you do well enough on one or the other, I don't think the schools will particularly care which one you take. |
| 16:55.38 | maquis | levi: depends on the schools |
| 16:55.46 | maquis | ivy leagues want the SAT |
| 16:55.54 | levi | Well, that's probably true. |
| 16:56.02 | levi | I didn't score well enough for them. ;) |
| 16:56.24 | elg | ^Migs^: rosegarden would work ok, if they're able to either wrap their heads around sequencing or play on the keyboard well enough to record a track at a time |
| 16:56.29 | levi | BYU sent me a t-shirt when I sent them my SAT score, though. |
| 16:57.05 | RyanE | good enough to get a T-shirt, not good enough to go there? |
| 16:57.37 | elg | ^Migs^: a fun program is terminatorx. you can play dj and do the record-scratching thing with that |
| 16:57.44 | elg | well he did |
| 16:57.47 | elg | i didn't get a t-shirt |
| 16:57.49 | levi | RyanE: BYU isn't Ivy League. |
| 16:58.38 | RyanE | levi: aha. I read that wrong. |
| 16:58.46 | *** join/#utah Lakshmi (n=chatzill@66-240-25-49.isp.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 16:59.27 | elg | ^Migs^: oh, and definitely throw in a theremin emulator. http://dis-dot-dat.net/index.cgi?item=/code/slat/ |
| 16:59.31 | brac | [dis-dot-dat.net/SLAT - Sounds like a theremin] |
| 16:59.33 | herlo | but there are another variation, gypped, which comes from gypsies |
| 16:59.53 | elg | there's at least on didgeridoo program |
| 16:59.58 | levi | Yeah, gypped would be the original. |
| 17:00.20 | herlo | and then we english/americanized it I guess |
| 17:00.50 | levi | Well, changing the spelling distances it from the cultural slur it used to be. |
| 17:01.16 | levi | It's kind of like saying 'I was Jewed!' |
| 17:01.32 | levi | Which is clearly in poor taste. But who's going to stand up for the Gypsies? |
| 17:03.52 | elg | quasimodo will |
| 17:05.01 | ^Migs^ | why is theremin a definite throw-in? |
| 17:06.31 | RyanE | 'cause they're fun. |
| 17:06.52 | elg | theremins are the epitomy of fun and giggle. and very historic too |
| 17:07.10 | RyanE | and a glass organ. Those are fun. Of course, probably a bit too pricey. |
| 17:07.40 | elg | freewheeling is another fun one for realtime experimentation. http://freewheeling.sourceforge.net/ |
| 17:07.43 | brac | [Freewheeling] |
| 17:08.05 | elg | watch the demo vid |
| 17:08.14 | ^Migs^ | oh, I think the kids would love these |
| 17:08.53 | elg | i would stick with "instill excitement and wonder" over "teach the brats" when it comes to using music software in the classroom |
| 17:09.15 | tensai | elg: wait wait wait. you're getting a PhD in the shower??? |
| 17:09.49 | ^Migs^ | you're probably right about that |
| 17:10.03 | ^Migs^ | at least for the younger kids |
| 17:10.10 | ^Migs^ | at some point we actually have to TEACH them music |
| 17:10.20 | levi | My little daughter is fascinated whenever I pick up my guitar and start playing it. |
| 17:11.39 | elg | check out solfege for a nice educational prog |
| 17:12.10 | ^Migs^ | I'm definitely planning on including solfege |
| 17:14.44 | elg | maybe you can watch that ep of the cosby show where they go visit stevie wonder |
| 17:14.57 | elg | and there's a great reading rainbow episode where they visit a synthesizer |
| 17:15.22 | elg | maybe they wouldn't be so exciting to modern kids, but the latter was one of the earliest times I remember being fascinated and excited by synths |
| 17:15.23 | ^Migs^ | omg I think I remember that |
| 17:16.13 | levi | Heh, I remember when ST:TNG first came out, I was excited that they had the guy from Reading Rainbow on it! |
| 17:16.30 | ^Migs^ | haha ya |
| 17:21.11 | tensai | I loved the episode where levar visited the set of ST:TNG |
| 17:21.48 | tensai | my favorite show was 3-2-1 Contact |
| 17:24.51 | ^Migs^ | here's some cool links: http://www.uen.org/core/linkList.do?courseNum=1560&itemId=594 |
| 17:24.55 | ^Migs^ | I had 3-2-1 Contact magazine |
| 17:26.30 | *** join/#utah sjansen (n=sjansen@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com) |
| 17:27.03 | sjansen | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NNbFboiSt0 |
| 17:27.38 | *** topic/#utah by sjansen -> The channel for content free discussion in Utah | http://plug.org/irc | Channel log @ http://ibot.rikers.org/%23utah/ | atoponce is going to be a dad! |
| 17:30.41 | elg | whippersnapper |
| 17:33.52 | maquis | pfffbt! |
| 17:41.35 | beandog | Clue Club ftw |
| 17:43.03 | levi | Mr. Wizard! |
| 17:43.18 | beandog | Newton's Apple |
| 17:43.35 | levi | "I think there is a handful of people who hate America. Unfortunately for them, a lot of them are losing their homes in a forest fire today." |
| 17:44.34 | tensai | sweet. looks like my company will be moving to OOo in a few weeks. |
| 17:45.34 | levi | I like Glen Beck even less now than I did before. |
| 17:48.04 | moriancumer | tensai: What type of business do you work for? |
| 17:48.17 | tensai | moriancumer: ISP |
| 17:49.06 | moriancumer | tensai: oh! I wish I had the influence to impliment OOo here at my job. |
| 17:49.46 | elg | with an uzi, you too can have influence |
| 17:50.13 | levi | elg: How about if you have a Hello Kitty AK-47? |
| 17:50.23 | ^Migs^ | we're talking about phasing out MS Office in our elementary schools and moving in OOo |
| 17:50.26 | tensai | an even more violent and unfriendly way is to call the BSA |
| 17:50.28 | ^Migs^ | then gradually in all the secondary schools, too |
| 17:50.31 | ^Migs^ | bout time, I say |
| 17:50.42 | tensai | 'bout *freaking* time |
| 17:50.54 | ^Migs^ | EXACTLY |
| 17:51.17 | ^Migs^ | I mean, how DARE they use an industry-standard product |
| 17:51.18 | tensai | the BSA asked us to do a self "audit". scared the you know what out of us. |
| 17:51.18 | moriancumer | lol the BSA is a good idea |
| 17:52.04 | tensai | the BSA may be a means to an end, but I don't think it could ever qualify as a "good" idea |
| 17:52.18 | ^Migs^ | I see it more as an idea than an effective organization |
| 17:52.30 | elg | "A few short months ago, we launched BYU ApplicantSearchTM,..." |
| 17:52.42 | elg | they really expect me to take seriously some program that ends in TM? |
| 17:52.51 | moriancumer | I don't think an uzi would work since I work with accountants and auditors (all undead) |
| 17:53.07 | levi | moriancumer: Maybe a shotgun, then? |
| 17:53.14 | mrpull | levi: what did Beck do now? |
| 17:53.24 | ^Migs^ | They didn't even put it in parantheses, like (TM) |
| 17:53.32 | ^Migs^ | Beck said something controversial, probably |
| 17:53.48 | ^Migs^ | something that conflicted with levi's worldviews |
| 17:54.02 | levi | mrpull: That quote above, suggesting that a bunch of the Californians whose houses are burning hate America. |
| 17:54.03 | mrpull | ^migs^: i might not have ever guessed that |
| 17:54.05 | moriancumer | levi: I didn't know a shotgun worked on the undead |
| 17:54.20 | ^Migs^ | why do I get the feeling that quote was yanked out of context? |
| 17:54.37 | moriancumer | You can't anything Beck says seriously |
| 17:54.59 | tensai | maquis: 一闪一闪亮晶晶 满天都是小星星 挂在天上放光明 好像一个小眼睛 一闪一闪亮晶晶 满天都是小星星 |
| 17:55.05 | mrpull | levi: ah... i missed the quote above... what the heck kind of jump in logic is that? |
| 17:55.08 | levi | moriancumer: Well, the wide dispersal pattern may be more likely to blow important parts of them off. |
| 17:55.19 | ^Migs^ | mrpull: Hence my comment that the quote was yanked out of context |
| 17:55.20 | mrpull | levi: i like moron trivia on Fridays |
| 17:55.48 | levi | mrpull: I don't think talking heads are, in general, very endowed with logical skills. |
| 17:55.56 | moriancumer | levi: then i'd have body parts chasing me |
| 17:56.08 | ^Migs^ | that's an unfair assumption to make, levi |
| 17:56.15 | levi | moriancumer: Not if they're small enough to lose locomotive ability. |
| 17:56.19 | elg | if they had said ApplicantSearch™, at least I would have given them props for the unicode |
| 17:56.23 | mrpull | beck has qualities that i like, but nobody on the radio is in lockstep with my views |
| 17:56.26 | ^Migs^ | are talking heads not entitled to the same education as everyone else? |
| 17:56.27 | moriancumer | moron trivia is pretty hilarious |
| 17:56.49 | mrpull | i like football and trivia and teasing dumb people |
| 17:56.52 | levi | I generally hate anyone who tries to inject personality into news. |
| 17:56.58 | mrpull | so that is a trifecta there |
| 17:57.13 | moriancumer | levi: I'll give it a try and let you know. What do I got to lose? |
| 17:57.47 | mrpull | beck isn't news... beck is entertainment |
| 17:58.12 | moriancumer | everyone injcts personality and bias in news |
| 17:58.17 | levi | mrpull: Precisely the kind of entertainment I hate. |
| 17:58.21 | moriancumer | beck IS just entertainment |
| 17:58.41 | levi | moriancumer: I'm not very fond of the news in general. |
| 17:58.44 | ^Migs^ | he doesn't exactly claim to be news, either |
| 18:00.14 | moriancumer | levi: but you said you don't like anyone who tries tin inject personality into news. I argue that there is no escape from that. |
| 18:00.31 | levi | moriancumer: Which is why I don't generally like the news. |
| 18:00.35 | moriancumer | s/to/tin |
| 18:00.48 | JoshH | if you want news with no "reporting", just watch cspan or something |
| 18:00.55 | moriancumer | levi: sorry. I missed the "not" in your statement. |
| 18:02.00 | levi | I think, as a culture, we're a little too news-obsessed. I also think it negatively colors our perception of society. |
| 18:04.21 | beandog | Hmm |
| 18:04.30 | beandog | whats the default blocksize of dd? |
| 18:04.32 | levi | And I think the talking head infotainment types are the worst of it, since they seem to spend a large portion of their airtime slingling mud at their idelogical opponents. |
| 18:07.05 | dataw0lf | beandog: 512, I believe. |
| 18:07.26 | beandog | I guess I could have done count=1 to find out, huh |
| 18:07.40 | beandog | yahp |
| 18:07.40 | dataw0lf | yea. |
| 18:07.42 | beandog | thanks dataw0lf |
| 18:07.45 | beandog | 512b it is |
| 18:07.50 | beandog | er B |
| 18:07.53 | beandog | whatever. |
| 18:08.07 | beandog | does the blocksize really matter if you're not using count? |
| 18:08.31 | Tene | http://www.kiva.org/ -- interesting |
| 18:08.33 | brac | [Kiva.org - Loans that change lives] |
| 18:09.01 | *** join/#utah jsmith (n=jsmith@000-153-787.area3.spcsdns.net) |
| 18:10.03 | goozbach | beandog: it helps thouruput if you match your filesystem block size |
| 18:10.12 | goozbach | the disk syncs are fewer |
| 18:10.25 | beandog | oh |
| 18:10.32 | beandog | how do you know that |
| 18:10.42 | goozbach | time dd |
| 18:11.00 | goozbach | you only actually see a benifit if it's a LARGE file |
| 18:11.54 | goozbach | back when I really cared about disk throughput |
| 18:12.06 | beandog | well, not that big. |
| 18:12.48 | mrpull | Tene: i heard about microloans a few years back and thought it was a cool idea... what kind of returns do you get on the investment? |
| 18:13.38 | Tene | mrpull: I have no idea whatsoever. |
| 18:15.09 | mrpull | it doesn't really say. I think it is against the spirit of the whole thing to think that it should be a big money generator... but if you continually reinvest it, it should grow |
| 18:19.35 | mrpull | the wiki page says they collect interest from the borrowers but don't pay interest to the lenders |
| 18:19.50 | levi | Heh, nice. :P |
| 18:29.34 | unum | how would I get the date 60 days ago in the format YYYY-MM-DD using bash? |
| 18:29.55 | unum | I'll even take that answer in perl |
| 18:30.03 | *** join/#utah macnewbold (n=mac@cg.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 18:31.35 | tensai | unum, well there are 5184000 seconds in 60 days, so subtracting from time() is easy. the hard part is formatting. |
| 18:32.40 | unum | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:32.44 | unum | I got the answer in another channel |
| 18:33.05 | unum | way easier than I thought |
| 18:35.27 | tensai | ah, yeah. that would work. date doesn't like times in seconds since epoch. |
| 18:39.21 | rsimpkins | Okay, python is fine I guess - but those tabs are KILLING me. |
| 18:39.55 | Tene | rsimpkins: can't your editor help you out there? |
| 18:40.07 | rsimpkins | I tried. |
| 18:40.13 | rsimpkins | The point being is that I have to try. |
| 18:40.33 | jsmith | rsimpkins: You've run into my number one complaint about python as well |
| 18:40.45 | mrpull | rsimpkins: what editor are you using? |
| 18:40.53 | rsimpkins | vim |
| 18:41.18 | rsimpkins | Is this supposed to be easier to read? |
| 18:41.35 | rsimpkins | I mean seriously - maybe I'm just looking at some really bad python code but this is nasy junk. |
| 18:41.43 | rsimpkins | nasty even. |
| 18:41.44 | Tene | rsimpkins: example? |
| 18:41.54 | maquis | so, you guys are the people who write poorly indented C code? |
| 18:42.03 | rsimpkins | Whitespace marks where a block starts and ends. |
| 18:42.41 | rsimpkins | It might be fine if my editor put in big vertical marks down each tab line. ;) |
| 18:43.22 | rsimpkins | ~lart IndentationErrors |
| 18:43.22 | ibot | teaches IndentationErrors that M$ Access is a database. No, really, a database. A real live multi-user... well, ok, not multi-user, but a database. Yeah, that sounds right. |
| 18:43.59 | maquis | rsimpkins: how many spaces are you indenting each time? |
| 18:44.03 | maquis | that might be your problem |
| 18:44.23 | rsimpkins | I guess. how many am I supposed to indent it? |
| 18:44.32 | maquis | if it's single-space indents, or if it's 2-space indents and you're used to 4-space indents, then it'll be harder to see what's going on |
| 18:45.02 | maquis | personally, i've never really done much python, but that's a guess, at least |
| 18:45.19 | maquis | when i did do some python, i didn't have problems with the spacing/indenting |
| 18:45.36 | rsimpkins | I was really excited about python until just now. |
| 18:46.25 | Sargun | why |
| 18:46.40 | Sargun | whyy do you hate indenting? |
| 18:47.17 | rsimpkins | I didn't say i hate indenting. I hate my script breaking because my whitespace is off. |
| 18:47.21 | rsimpkins | It looks just fine. |
| 18:47.37 | *** join/#utah nick125_treo- (n=upirc@m430e36d0.tmodns.net) |
| 18:47.37 | Sargun | But then you get a nice indentation error, and you fix it |
| 18:47.53 | rsimpkins | Bingo. |
| 18:47.58 | Sargun | its nick125_treo-! |
| 18:48.00 | rsimpkins | You just hit the nail on the head buddy. |
| 18:48.10 | rsimpkins | I have to sit there and fiddle with whitespace. |
| 18:48.12 | rsimpkins | No thanks. |
| 18:48.28 | Sargun | rsimpkins, "Fiddle" -- just write it correctly the first time? |
| 18:48.41 | rsimpkins | Sargun: It wasn't I who wrote it my friend. |
| 18:49.13 | Sargun | then tell him to write it correctly? |
| 18:49.21 | Sargun | or don't use spaces, use tabs |
| 18:49.55 | rsimpkins | Or, use some other language that doesn't depend on whitespace as syntax? |
| 18:51.15 | Tene | http://yudkowsky.net/yehuda.html -- Interesting. |
| 18:51.20 | brac | [Yehuda Yudkowsky, 1985-2004] |
| 18:56.54 | Sargun | I want an N810 |
| 18:57.53 | Sargun | Does Amazon MP3 have a cart... |
| 19:00.20 | levi | rsimpkins: Is tracking down whitespace problems really that much different than finding a misplaced semicolon, or a comma where a semicolon should be, or that sort of mess? |
| 19:01.15 | levi | Fixing someone else's nasty code is a pain no matter what language you're using. |
| 19:01.38 | tensai | Sargun: yes. but if you want to buy more than one at a time you have to use their download client |
| 19:02.49 | Sargun | Ah, crap. |
| 19:03.11 | levi | One thing I wonder about is why it's so frequent to hear people hate Python because of significant whitespace, yet very infrequent to hear people who try Haskell get turned off by significant whitespace. |
| 19:05.46 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@216.31.27.110) |
| 19:05.47 | brac | Can't say that the logical AND circuit, whatever that means I get links to stuff keywords into his office...) |
| 19:07.11 | rsimpkins | levi: It is personal preference I think. I can 'see' a missing semicolon or brace. I can't 'see' missing whitespace. I know that might not make much sense - it is hard to describe. |
| 19:09.53 | levi | Well, I will grant that tab vs. space problems can be less visually apparent than the other errors I mentioned, but the annoying thing about them is that they're /all/ very hard to see. |
| 19:10.25 | rsimpkins | I used to have big problems with ) vs } until I found a better font. |
| 19:11.26 | levi | You generally get the gist of their location from a compiler error, and then you examine the area very closely to look for out of place stuff. I'm sure you could develop an editor technique to quickly check for tabs vs spaces in a suspect area. |
| 19:11.56 | Sargun | Amazon MP3 needs more variety. |
| 19:12.11 | levi | Sargun needs more variety. |
| 19:12.18 | Sargun | I do. |
| 19:17.33 | maquis | Sargun: sorry |
| 19:18.08 | Sargun | :-) |
| 19:18.16 | Sargun | Do you know if its still in Beta? |
| 19:18.29 | maquis | Sargun: no idea |
| 19:18.36 | maquis | i know practically nothing about it |
| 19:18.48 | maquis | i didn't even know about it until they announced it had released |
| 19:19.17 | Sargun | lol |
| 19:22.01 | tensai | maquis: did you know that the one-click patent was overturned? |
| 19:24.32 | maquis | tensai: i hadn't really heard anything about that, but i didn't really follow it |
| 19:25.40 | levi | maquis: Did you know that the floofelnarks are now purple? |
| 19:26.04 | maquis | levi: really? |
| 19:26.36 | levi | I don't know, but it couldn't possibly be relevant to anything. ;) |
| 19:26.41 | tensai | maquis: have you heard jeff bezos laugh? |
| 19:28.02 | maquis | tensai: yes. i've heard him laugh in meetings. I haven't actually spoken to him yet, though... |
| 19:28.19 | maquis | i should've, last time i had a chance, but I didn't |
| 19:30.44 | levi | maquis: Have you watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate? |
| 19:31.08 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@216.31.27.110) |
| 19:31.09 | brac | we americans, whether shire or sure, get about 70% of our revenue from their FAQ. |
| 19:34.54 | maquis | ~quote amzn |
| 19:36.16 | maquis | ~quote amzn |
| 19:37.28 | tensai | uh oh, my hard drive is dying |
| 19:37.34 | tensai | oh it recovered |
| 19:38.03 | tensai | well, it's still dying. it's just not dead yet. |
| 19:43.59 | moriancumer | ~quote scoxe |
| 19:44.08 | moriancumer | ~quote scox |
| 19:49.16 | mrpull | uh oh... i've got a defunct init |
| 19:49.19 | mrpull | that cant be good |
| 19:50.38 | *** join/#utah bmidgley_ (n=bmidgley@185.sub-70-192-213.myvzw.com) |
| 19:52.21 | tensai | defuncting an init is messy work. best to just leave the funct in. |
| 19:52.49 | mrpull | tensai: we might not be on the same page here |
| 19:53.09 | tensai | defuncting, like delousing |
| 19:55.42 | *** join/#utah tiwula (n=lane@208.64.90.18.static.utahbroadband.com) |
| 20:01.08 | *** join/#utah shadowwire (n=shadowwi@mail.swplumb.com) |
| 20:01.27 | shadowwire | How is everyone? |
| 20:02.15 | shadowwire | That you would rather be fishing? |
| 20:02.40 | jsmith | Exactly! |
| 20:02.47 | jsmith | Hmmmmn... fish.... |
| 20:04.09 | maquis | mmm... |
| 20:04.13 | shadowwire | I think I've finaly decided on a programing language to learn first. |
| 20:04.20 | maquis | cold-smoked sockeye |
| 20:04.49 | levi | shadowwire: Which one? |
| 20:05.00 | shadowwire | C++ |
| 20:05.20 | levi | shadowwire: Why'd you pick C++? |
| 20:05.30 | ^Migs^ | no way learn Perl |
| 20:05.33 | ^Migs^ | ~perl shadowwire |
| 20:05.34 | ibot | ACTION forces ^Migs^ to use perl |
| 20:05.38 | ^Migs^ | ~migs shadowwire |
| 20:05.38 | ibot | ACTION forces shadowwire to learn perl from ^Migs^ |
| 20:05.40 | ^Migs^ | there we go |
| 20:05.42 | Tene | <3 perl |
| 20:06.07 | ^Migs^ | use Alice: http://www.alice.org |
| 20:06.19 | levi | C++ might be worth learning, if you really want to delve into it and become a C++ master. But that isn't something easily done. |
| 20:06.41 | shadowwire | well, c++ seems to be nice and "stand alone". No needing to run everything from a server. No needing to know HTML first etc... |
| 20:06.59 | ^Migs^ | learn PHP |
| 20:07.04 | levi | Well, if the only other language you were looking at was PHP, that sounds reasonable. |
| 20:07.17 | levi | But you might want to widen your scope a bit. |
| 20:08.01 | maquis | shadowwire: if you want nice and standalone and such, try C |
| 20:08.09 | tensai | I recommend qbasic. It Worked For Me™. |
| 20:08.20 | levi | Applesoft BASIC FTW! |
| 20:08.21 | Kemotaha | if you want true stand alone. ASM :) |
| 20:08.22 | shadowwire | Also I want something thats going to give me a good grasp of what it is to program. |
| 20:08.24 | ^Migs^ | no way LOGO |
| 20:08.38 | shadowwire | I have used q-basic. |
| 20:08.39 | ^Migs^ | you can do a lot more with LOGO than just drawing turtle graphics, you know |
| 20:08.53 | levi | shadowwire: 'what it is to program' is something that you'll find varying opinions about. |
| 20:09.04 | shadowwire | Levi: what would you suggest? |
| 20:09.05 | ^Migs^ | PHP DEFINES what it is to program |
| 20:09.06 | levi | ^Migs^: LOGO is Lisp without parentheses. |
| 20:09.21 | levi | ^Migs^: With a bit of tcl mixed in. |
| 20:09.51 | ^Migs^ | what's that other training programming language? |
| 20:09.54 | shadowwire | Also cprograming.com has a nice tutorial. |
| 20:09.58 | RyanE | pascal? |
| 20:09.59 | RyanE | :) |
| 20:10.01 | ^Migs^ | no |
| 20:10.04 | ^Migs^ | some open source language |
| 20:10.14 | ^Migs^ | er |
| 20:10.19 | ^Migs^ | I guess they're all "open source" |
| 20:10.33 | levi | shadowwire: For someone just learning to program, and really wanting to know what it is to program, I'd suggest the book 'How to Design Programs' with the DrScheme interpreter. Then you can tackle C++ if you want. :) |
| 20:11.09 | shadowwire | hmm. Ill look into that. |
| 20:11.28 | levi | http://www.htdp.org/ |
| 20:11.29 | brac | [How to Design Programs] |
| 20:11.33 | ^Migs^ | no, here's the best coding language: http://lolcode.com/ |
| 20:11.36 | Kemotaha | ^Migs^, not true, the .NET stuff is not open source, well not all of it |
| 20:11.37 | rsimpkins | shadowwire: How long has it taken you to decide on a lanuage to learn? |
| 20:11.56 | ^Migs^ | yeah, that's why I shut up, because I was making statements which I knew weren't true, but I couldn't remember any examples |
| 20:12.32 | Kemotaha | VB wasn't open source .. (there is a pattern here. Hmm I wonder where they all come from ) |
| 20:12.47 | Tene | loglan wasn't open source. |
| 20:13.08 | ^Migs^ | was smalltalk? |
| 20:13.14 | levi | Nope. |
| 20:13.27 | shadowwire | rsimpkins: I have lots of friends who program in various languages, and most of them suggested either Python or PHP. However My cousin |
| 20:13.32 | shadowwire | Suggested C |
| 20:13.34 | levi | We're talking pre-Open Source days, anyway. |
| 20:14.09 | shadowwire | rsimpkins: about 2 months |
| 20:14.17 | levi | shadowwire: More important than the language you pick is the principles that you learn about building programs. |
| 20:14.30 | shadowwire | What so you mean? |
| 20:14.39 | shadowwire | sorry "do" |
| 20:15.33 | sjansen | Hate to say it, but I think Python is the best possible first language. |
| 20:15.36 | levi | shadowwire: Programming languages are just a means of transmitting ideas to other people and the computer. Learning how to formulate the ideas in the first place and /think/ about programming is the key to being able to program. |
| 20:15.39 | shadowwire | I know naming standards are important. as is documentation. |
| 20:15.45 | RyanE | I think he means that you should learn the stuff in 'How to Design Programs' regardless of the language you use. |
| 20:15.54 | rsimpkins | shadowwire: I'm just tryign to be helpful - but how much could you have learned if you had been studying a language for 2 months? |
| 20:15.55 | ^Migs^ | I think Ruby on Rails is a pretty awesome language |
| 20:16.05 | sjansen | Python is reasonably flexible. The community is reasonably friendly, and will teach reasonably good habits. |
| 20:16.12 | Jayce^ | RoR isn't a language |
| 20:16.15 | Jayce^ | sjansen, get back to work! |
| 20:16.16 | rsimpkins | shadowwire: In other words - spend no more than 20 minutes picking a lanauge - then start learning. |
| 20:16.24 | levi | Python was also designed with teaching programming in mind. |
| 20:16.35 | sjansen | It's not my favorite language, but there's a lot of good that can be taken from Python as applied to future learning. |
| 20:17.16 | rsimpkins | shadowwire: The best lanuage is the one you start learning right now - right this second. |
| 20:17.18 | sjansen | With C++ you have to worry about compiling and linking and binary compatibility and a myriad of problems that distract from the core learning. |
| 20:17.25 | levi | rsimpkins: What I'm trying to say is that all this fuss about which language is misplaced. More important is what text or guide or whatever do you choose to learn how to program. |
| 20:17.55 | tensai | shadowwire: didn't expect to open such a can of worms, did you? |
| 20:18.02 | sjansen | rsimpkins: Hardly. For example, learning Brain F*ck isn't a great use of one's time at first. |
| 20:18.36 | levi | HTDP uses Scheme as a first language because it's a very simple language, and the DrScheme tool enforces an even simpler subset of it for the first while. |
| 20:18.49 | rsimpkins | sjansen: So you are saying it is better to take two months picking a first lanuage rather than just picking a mainstream lanauge and learning it? |
| 20:19.04 | levi | You can learn how to write programs without a lot of worry about syntax, compiling, IO, etc. |
| 20:19.30 | sjansen | shadowwire: I'd start with a dynamic language. (Python/Ruby/Perl) Then learn a low level language (C). Then learn an "industrial" language (Java/C++). Then come your senses and learn a higher order language (Scheme/Lisp/Haskell). |
| 20:19.35 | levi | rsimpkins: Learning a language does not equate to learning how programs work. |
| 20:19.49 | rsimpkins | levi: Amen, but the guy just needs to start! :) |
| 20:20.03 | sjansen | rsimpkins: Two months? Nothing so wasteful. Two days? Sure. |
| 20:20.41 | sjansen | The problem with learning Scheme first is you'll hate everything else. |
| 20:20.56 | *** join/#utah pelaofeliz (n=ben@67.108.236.230) |
| 20:21.04 | levi | "How To Design Programs" provides a convenient set of important things like a textbook, exercises, and a development environment tuned to the curriculum. |
| 20:21.17 | levi | It's not the only way to go, certainly, but it's a good choice. |
| 20:21.36 | levi | You could also download "Programming from the Ground Up" and learn assembly language first. |
| 20:21.57 | rsimpkins | For me I had to find something that was entertaining, something I enjoyed, and gave me an immediate sense of accomplishment. So I went through learning perl first. |
| 20:22.18 | rsimpkins | But I did it with the intent of being a sys admin, not a programmer - so. |
| 20:23.55 | levi | perl is a reasonable language, but it's got plenty of distractions from the essence of programming. It's an excellent sysadmin tool, and a reasonable way to write useful programs, but perhaps not the best pedagogical tool. |
| 20:24.51 | levi | Especially without a guiding curriculum. |
| 20:28.36 | shadowwire | I apreciate all of your input. |
| 20:29.05 | levi | shadowwire: Now is the time when you *do* something. :) |
| 20:38.09 | Tene | ~lart Supaplex |
| 20:38.09 | ibot | pulls out a ClueBat (tm) and thwaps Supaplex |
| 20:41.55 | maquis | shadowwire: seriously, I think one of the most useful classes I had at school covered C, assembly, and computer architecture... |
| 20:42.10 | maquis | i've found that understanding that stuff is extremely useful |
| 20:43.21 | levi | maquis: It is indeed very useful, but only after you know how to think about writing programs. |
| 20:44.08 | levi | Well, "to think about designing programs" might be a better way to put it. |
| 20:44.53 | Tene | ~lart supaplex for not knowing who I am |
| 20:44.53 | ibot | takes out supaplex with the trash for not knowing who I am |
| 20:45.38 | maquis | levi: a good point, but i don't see why it can't be used to learn how to think about designing programs at least at first |
| 20:46.24 | levi | Learning C, assembly, and computer architecture is essential to understand how a /computer/ interprets a program, but programs are written primarily for humans. |
| 20:47.02 | elg | i saw an ad yesterday on campus for an "opening hour sale" for leopard. $10 between 5 and 6 on friday |
| 20:47.18 | elg | says a bit about our instant age |
| 20:47.47 | levi | And starting from a low level and working up is a valid way of learning to program, but I think it needlessly complicates the thought process. |
| 20:48.03 | maquis | :) |
| 20:48.13 | elg | we don't start at the basics of mathematical thought before teaching arithmetic |
| 20:48.19 | elg | or even calculus |
| 20:48.22 | maquis | i still sometimes think that OOP needlessly complicates the thought process in way too many situations |
| 20:48.26 | elg | only the mathemeticians have to deal with that |
| 20:48.49 | levi | elg: I don't think that analogy fits well, though. |
| 20:48.51 | elg | oop gives power in some ways, but adds complexity in others, yes. sometimes a simple step-by-step list of computer instructions is more than sufficient |
| 20:49.04 | Tene | I've got a friend who doesn't know how to think about programming in any way other than object-oriented. |
| 20:49.09 | levi | maquis: I certainly never suggested starting with OOP. |
| 20:49.19 | elg | levi: how about this one then? how many of you have played an instrument or sung a song in your life? how many of you understand the underpinnings of western music theory? |
| 20:49.38 | Tene | I thought he was kidding or exaggerating when he was talking about it, but looking at code he writes... he makes a separate object for everything. |
| 20:49.38 | elg | or the mathematics of sound wave propogation? |
| 20:49.40 | levi | elg: Right, but I'm not advocating starting with theory. |
| 20:49.45 | Tene | So many objects... |
| 20:49.48 | elg | right. i'm on your side here :) |
| 20:49.55 | levi | Ahh, I see. :) |
| 20:50.00 | maquis | levi: i know... i'm just complaining |
| 20:50.40 | levi | There are a couple of different 'foundational' aspects of programming, and starting out with either of them is probably counterproductive. |
| 20:51.00 | elg | at least I think I am. I didn't read the backlog |
| 20:51.20 | levi | There's 'what machines actually do' as well as 'mathematical foundations of computer science' |
| 20:52.06 | levi | Whereas learning to think about how to design and write a program is something entirely different from either of those advanced topics. |
| 20:52.22 | elg | exactyl |
| 20:52.57 | mrpull | ah crap. i assumed i could install from centos5's live cd |
| 20:53.04 | mrpull | i think I assumed poorly |
| 20:53.15 | elg | mrpull: I made that mistake once |
| 20:53.17 | *** join/#utah bucky (n=bucky@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/bucky) |
| 20:53.18 | elg | *grumble* |
| 20:53.33 | mrpull | i cant boot the DVD image |
| 20:53.33 | elg | still gives me high blood pressure |
| 20:53.40 | mrpull | i don't know why |
| 20:54.16 | elg | any reason to wait a month before upgrading to leopard? I'm going to get it with my bookstore allowance, but it has to be this semester |
| 20:54.27 | jsmith | elg: Naw, just get it |
| 20:55.04 | levi | Well, some 3rd party programs may not work properly with it at first, and it will undoubtedly have a few bugs. |
| 20:55.10 | *** join/#utah redbeard2 (n=route@mail.umbctrainingcenters.com) |
| 20:55.11 | levi | No reason not to buy it for $10, though. |
| 20:56.10 | elg | sorry, $10 off. $80 instead of $90 |
| 20:56.25 | levi | Ahh. Well, still, no reason not to take advantage of a discount. |
| 20:56.27 | elg | but my allowance wouldn't buy it from me from the people doing the sale |
| 20:56.35 | elg | gotta get it from the bookstore |
| 20:56.38 | levi | Ahhh. |
| 20:56.51 | levi | Well, you can always buy it now and install it later. |
| 20:57.41 | elg | a theoretical possibility |
| 20:58.29 | elg | yeah, I'm sure there will be some bumps in the road which is why I ask if a month is long enough for any of them to get smoothed out. but you're right. I can wait with the box in my hands as well as I can wait with the box at the bookstore |
| 21:01.59 | levi | I'm going to wait until I get a new laptop. |
| 21:02.24 | levi | I have a feeling there will be a refresh of at least some of the laptops soon. |
| 21:05.38 | elg | refresh? |
| 21:07.22 | jsmith | s/see if/see/ |
| 21:14.34 | mrpull | why doesn't wget support globbing for http? |
| 21:15.29 | RyanE | because it doesn't know the index of the files on the other side? |
| 21:15.48 | mrpull | RyanE: and if I tell it in the glob? |
| 21:16.15 | mrpull | like $wget file[1-6]of6.iso |
| 21:16.27 | RyanE | I guess it's just dumb that way. |
| 21:17.29 | mrpull | or is [1-6] not considered a glob? |
| 21:17.39 | Tene | mrpull: that should happen in your shell |
| 21:17.59 | mrpull | Tene: you are right... |
| 21:18.07 | RyanE | does wget allow multiple url's and get them? If so, then it should work. |
| 21:18.12 | Tene | consult your shell documentation |
| 21:18.18 | RyanE | I don't think I've ever tried wget with multiple files. |
| 21:18.20 | mrpull | i did a for loop |
| 21:18.24 | mrpull | that did the trick |
| 21:20.18 | mrpull | wget does do globs for FTP, but I guess it has the context of the filesystems to help it out |
| 21:24.25 | levi | elg: I mean they'll be updating the hardware |
| 21:27.01 | *** join/#utah fozzmoo (n=fozz@66.7.122.158) |
| 21:27.59 | tensai | ooh, is my hard drive dead this time? |
| 21:28.22 | tensai | I can probably keep chatting as long as X doesn't swap |
| 21:28.33 | tensai | nope, it recovered again. bummer. :( |
| 21:28.54 | levi | I don't think I've ever seen someone sad that their hard drive didn't die. |
| 21:28.55 | fozzmoo | ~onjoin fozzmoo Mooooo?! |
| 21:28.55 | ibot | fozzmoo: ok |
| 21:29.16 | tensai | levi: I've got a replacement right here and I just need an excuse to stop working and swap it in |
| 21:29.41 | levi | tensai: Won't 'The dog ate my homework' work? |
| 21:32.56 | *** join/#utah decriptor_ (n=sshaw@161.28.255.52) |
| 21:37.03 | elg | maquis: try echo [1-9] |
| 21:37.27 | elg | now try echo {1,2,3,9} |
| 21:37.46 | elg | now try echo /tmp/* |
| 21:38.07 | elg | so in short, it would have worked but who knows why [1-9] isn't interpreted by the shell in the same way |
| 21:38.10 | elg | maybe sjansen does |
| 21:38.35 | fozzmoo | http://www.redhatmagazine.com/2007/10/23/gimp-24-preview/ |
| 21:38.53 | sjansen | tensai: Time for the waltz of the foot-dragged-on-shag-carpet-hope-I-don't-shock-myself-into-a-heart-attack followed by a little hard drive caressing. |
| 21:39.42 | sjansen | elg: I don't see the reference. |
| 21:40.06 | elg | referwho? |
| 21:40.08 | sjansen | echo [1-9] <-- Globbing. Matches a pattern against existing filenames. |
| 21:40.26 | elg | ah, that's it then |
| 21:40.28 | sjansen | echo {1,2,3,9} <-- Brace expansion. Independent of filenames. |
| 21:40.41 | sjansen | echo /tmp/* <-- Globbing. |
| 21:40.52 | elg | i knew you had the power |
| 21:41.08 | jsmith | ~praise sjansen |
| 21:41.09 | ibot | All hail sjansen! |
| 21:41.11 | tensai | -chat about you yad |
| 21:41.13 | brac | you yad |
| 21:41.13 | tensai | -chat about you had |
| 21:41.13 | brac | you had an intriguing idea |
| 21:41.22 | sjansen | Aw, shucks. |
| 21:41.52 | jsmith | ~power sjansen |
| 21:44.12 | elg | cool, background removal. that'll be handy |
| 21:44.22 | elg | i see they still have that horrid thousand-window interface though |
| 21:44.38 | tensai | ~power $sjansen is <action> plugs $sjansen into three-phase power |
| 21:44.38 | ibot | okay, tensai |
| 21:45.07 | elg | ~1up tensai |
| 21:46.17 | *** join/#utah bonez39 (n=scott@c-71-195-243-49.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 21:46.37 | sjansen | ~drain tensai and elg |
| 21:46.38 | ibot | ACTION pulls the plug on tensai and elg then watches the pretty colors as they swirl into oblivion |
| 21:46.41 | bonez39 | any of you run win4lin? |
| 21:46.43 | tensai | ~1up $elg is <action> convinces $elg to eat a mushroom which jumped forth from the ground for no apparent reason |
| 21:46.44 | ibot | okay, tensai |
| 21:47.28 | sjansen | LinFTW! |
| 21:49.44 | elg | bonez39: you're the only person I've ever heard of using it |
| 21:54.32 | *** join/#utah Lakshmi (n=chatzill@66-240-25-49.isp.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 22:03.35 | *** join/#utah Newsome (n=sorenson@adsl-75-0-136-70.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net) |
| 22:04.10 | herlo | Jayce^: ping |
| 22:04.17 | herlo | rsimpkins: ping |
| 22:04.49 | jsmith | herlo: SYN-ACK |
| 22:04.53 | mrpull | i'm sure getting more spam in my gmail account these days |
| 22:05.12 | herlo | jsmith: very funny |
| 22:05.20 | herlo | jsmith: where are you now? Are you in Boston yet? |
| 22:05.35 | herlo | jsmith: if you come next week, you might get to go to a World Series game |
| 22:06.31 | herlo | mrpull: me too actually. Its still not bad though |
| 22:06.48 | jsmith | herlo: No, I'm home this week... Boston is *next* week. |
| 22:06.55 | jsmith | herlo: (and like I could afford the tickets) |
| 22:07.00 | bonez39 | elg: well, don't I feel special.... |
| 22:07.13 | bonez39 | and ewwwwwww neeeeeeeekkkkkkkk |
| 22:07.16 | herlo | jsmith: you don't need to actually go to the game! |
| 22:07.27 | herlo | jsmith: just go down and enjoy the vibe and the energy around it |
| 22:07.34 | jsmith | herlo: Why would I want to do something like that? |
| 22:07.43 | herlo | jsmith: fun |
| 22:07.47 | elg | bonez39: if the hardware/budget allows may I recommend windows in vmware instead? |
| 22:10.45 | herlo | bonez39: don't do that, go with kvm/xen/virtualbox, cheaper and just as stable |
| 22:11.03 | herlo | unless you want to spend a bunch of money for ESX server, which has other great features |
| 22:15.02 | sjansen | kvm is not just as stable |
| 22:15.23 | sjansen | I get the impression VirtualBox also isn't as stable. |
| 22:15.39 | sjansen | And I have my gripes about Xen too, although it is reasonably mature. |
| 22:16.17 | sjansen | Honestly, VMWare is a great product. Stable and pretty easy to use. |
| 22:16.34 | herlo | sjansen: that's true. VirtualBox appears very stable. |
| 22:16.58 | herlo | sjansen: I guess I maent to say kvm isn't very stable, but VirtualBox appears to be |
| 22:18.21 | herlo | sjansen: but it appears that bonez39 is really only looking to experiment FWICT |
| 22:26.15 | bonez39 | elg: I can run this one app, Lytec Medical, using WINE...though it's not too stable yet and printing is off......if I can resolve the print issues..with WINE..I can dump win4lin and have no need of it or vmware either |
| 22:29.06 | Jayce^ | ~pong herlo |
| 22:29.06 | ibot | herlo: PONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
| 22:36.16 | herlo | Jayce^: pm |
| 22:36.31 | Heartsbane | Aren't you supposed to be at dinner? |
| 22:36.41 | herlo | Heartsbane: soon |
| 22:37.42 | bonez39 | herlo: FWICT? |
| 22:37.54 | herlo | From What I Can Tell |
| 22:38.27 | herlo | rsimpkins: ping |
| 22:38.33 | bonez39 | AH.....EXPERIMENT? NO..my running win4lin is to allow me to run this one application.. |
| 22:38.46 | bonez39 | herlo: I won't forget that acronym... |
| 22:39.00 | herlo | bonez39: hopefully |
| 22:39.19 | herlo | bonez39: so wine won't work? |
| 22:42.18 | bonez39 | well, I run it with wine..and it loads up..but if i try to print to a system printer...it says it wants to print 65000 some odd pages..and proceeds to just have myprinter pump out page after blank page..... |
| 22:42.36 | bonez39 | herlo: the app is called Lytec Medical..it's an office management/patient database application... |
| 22:43.12 | bonez39 | it produces my claims...printed either to a mapped image file..which is electronically sent out to the appropriate payor, or is prints out a laser form..with the form and data filled in... |
| 22:44.26 | herlo | bonez39: ahh, that's a lame bug |
| 22:44.57 | herlo | bonez39: couldn't you print them on either another box or to pdf and then any machine coul print them? |
| 22:45.33 | bonez39 | a lame bug? well, I suppose I could...I'd have to figure out how...but that might work... |
| 22:46.09 | maquis | bonez39: that sounds *extremely* similar to the system that we had at the medical clinic i worked for... |
| 22:46.15 | maquis | except that it was completely home-grown |
| 22:46.19 | *** join/#utah bmidgley_ (n=bmidgley@70.sub-70-192-37.myvzw.com) |
| 22:46.27 | bonez39 | maquis: really? was it Lytec, or Medisoft? |
| 22:46.33 | maquis | none |
| 22:46.38 | maquis | it was written internally |
| 22:46.39 | bonez39 | maquis: oh, inhouse cooked up? |
| 22:46.46 | bonez39 | was it run on winders? |
| 22:46.51 | bonez39 | or ~nix? |
| 22:46.52 | maquis | yup |
| 22:46.55 | maquis | windoze |
| 22:47.30 | bonez39 | there are other programs, but this one has over 6,000 patients in it..and it's a fast database using the btrieve record manager to manage the data... |
| 22:48.35 | rsimpkins | herlo: pong |
| 22:54.31 | herlo | rsimpkins: pm |
| 23:15.11 | *** part/#utah bonez39 (n=scott@c-71-195-243-49.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 23:29.12 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@216.31.27.110) |
| 23:29.13 | brac | I can't study right now! Wrap up a seat next to it, and whether you count my savings, but I killed it if I were still a North Carolinian before. Wasn't too hard ;-) |
| 23:29.44 | elg | herlo: well, you can give the freedom argument if you like, but vmware server is easy and free as in beer. |
| 23:59.52 | *** join/#utah Hearts|laptop (n=hearts@166-70-210-101.ip.xmission.com) |
