| 00:05.52 | klys | housesitters `r' us over here |
| 00:06.04 | klys | nothin' comes my way, I mean |
| 00:07.55 | klys | doin' somethin', requires formality |
| 00:08.28 | klys | so I map out the house this mornin' |
| 00:10.00 | klys | ...to keep all your fears away |
| 00:12.16 | klys | somethin' about a kitchen hallowwen ornament |
| 00:14.28 | maquis | ? |
| 00:14.58 | klys | I'm looking up siebenbergen right now |
| 00:16.47 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@216.31.27.110) |
| 00:16.48 | brac | PHP is that the catering company brought us Jackass The Movie |
| 00:17.47 | klys | http://www.miners-lamps.com/st99x.jpghttp://www.miners-lamps.com/st99x.jpg |
| 00:17.51 | klys | jeeks |
| 00:18.02 | klys | oh well it's supposed to be scary looking |
| 00:25.53 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@216.31.27.110) |
| 00:25.55 | brac | Oooh... yeah, that would help. |
| 00:27.40 | klys | eBay just went from Price to Price + Shipping. What a pleasant surprise. |
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| 00:51.02 | findlay | ~class klys |
| 00:52.52 | Nja1 | ~whale Nja1 |
| 00:59.30 | Nja1 | this place is JUMPING |
| 01:00.46 | findlay | ~slashdot |
| 01:01.16 | nick125 | This is neat, you can identify users with IDENT in DansGuardian |
| 01:01.28 | findlay | -metar kpvu |
| 01:01.35 | brac | KPVU 182350Z VRB05KT 15SM BKN110 10/M04 A3014 |
| 01:02.24 | nick125 | But, the only thing I wonder about is if you can get a log with the blocked site access attempts with the IDENT name. The main thing is that if I setup my system, computer morons will have to be able to view the lists, so I can't go and cross reference between the Squid and DansGuardian Logs. |
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| 02:29.52 | brac | But it doesn't you can't get activerecord to require changes to the Telephone jack |
| 03:07.04 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@216.31.27.110) |
| 03:07.06 | brac | yeah, there's not much of the game of mao is a massochist? |
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| 03:42.14 | vontrapp | help! i need an ubuntu repo that's not crawling on its knees! |
| 03:42.29 | vontrapp | i can't get better than 30kB/s |
| 03:42.44 | vontrapp | any local mirrors? |
| 03:42.59 | Supaplex | 127.0.0.1 not close enough? ;) |
| 03:43.21 | vontrapp | hahar |
| 03:43.29 | Supaplex | http://mirrors.xmission.com/ubuntu |
| 03:43.36 | vontrapp | ooh, that should work |
| 03:43.43 | Supaplex | blame pashdown ;o) |
| 03:45.03 | vontrapp | ah, that's better |
| 03:45.15 | vontrapp | blame him for what? |
| 03:45.26 | vontrapp | for making my life better? |
| 03:45.30 | Supaplex | yup |
| 03:46.36 | vontrapp | what! apt-get update worked, but when i try to install something it says "server said, 'failed to open file'' |
| 03:46.41 | vontrapp | that's annoying |
| 03:46.54 | Supaplex | try ftp://mirrors.xmission.com/ubuntu |
| 03:46.54 | *** join/#utah wps (n=wps@208.53.47.251) |
| 03:47.13 | Supaplex | their mirror sometimes has http issues (atleast they did until I switched to ftp, and forgot about said issue) |
| 03:47.29 | vontrapp | it is ftp |
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| 03:47.44 | vontrapp | should i try http? |
| 03:47.55 | Supaplex | maybe XM hasn't caught up. did a new release jump out today or something? |
| 03:48.10 | Supaplex | fwiw, the debian section works well for me. |
| 03:48.11 | vontrapp | yep |
| 03:48.18 | vontrapp | brand spankin new |
| 03:48.24 | vontrapp | that's why the ubuntu servers are crawling |
| 03:48.28 | Supaplex | ahh, so it's an older sid ;) |
| 03:48.49 | vontrapp | i just don't get why the apt-get update shows valid package lists, but then the files aren't there |
| 03:48.54 | vontrapp | that's just cruel |
| 03:49.11 | vontrapp | any other mirror that would have ubuntu 7.10? |
| 03:51.00 | vontrapp | even just the connect to us.archive.ubuntu.com takes a whole minute sometimes |
| 03:51.49 | Supaplex | try a torrent? |
| 03:52.04 | vontrapp | i got the cd |
| 03:52.09 | vontrapp | now i'm trying to install packages |
| 03:52.19 | Supaplex | do they have torrents of the dvd's? |
| 03:52.28 | vontrapp | of the cd's, yeah |
| 03:52.32 | vontrapp | don't know if they even have dvds |
| 03:52.45 | vontrapp | of course, they hide the torrents |
| 03:53.02 | Supaplex | humm... |
| 03:53.06 | vontrapp | they should have a prominent link right there in the main download page "please use the torrent if you in any way can!" |
| 03:53.12 | vontrapp | then they wouldn't hose their servers |
| 03:54.13 | Supaplex | this reminds me of redhat madness. I was on dialup then. man, I'm so glad I'm not on dialup trying to get ubuntu right now. :-D |
| 03:54.25 | vontrapp | they're not _hidden_, you just have to go to the "veiw all mirrors" and then find you mirror and select the torrent from the file lists |
| 03:55.05 | Supaplex | *nod* |
| 03:55.10 | vontrapp | what would be cool, a distro whose package manager used torrents natively |
| 03:55.18 | *** part/#utah kierra (n=jolie@ool-44c154d0.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 03:55.23 | vontrapp | any package you have installed, you're seeding it. |
| 03:55.47 | Supaplex | that could get interesting |
| 03:56.14 | Supaplex | well, any package you still have in your cache. (aka before apt-get clean) |
| 03:56.15 | vontrapp | or at least, if you still have the actual package file |
| 03:56.23 | vontrapp | yaya |
| 03:56.39 | vontrapp | "Some index files failed to download" *sigh* |
| 03:57.07 | vontrapp | what's worse, my gnome isn't starting :/ |
| 03:57.13 | vontrapp | it just freezes |
| 03:57.23 | vontrapp | have to backup my .gnomes and start fresh |
| 04:01.55 | vontrapp | nope, that didn't even work |
| 04:02.16 | vontrapp | if i could ever get nvidia-glx to download, maybe that would fix it |
| 04:08.15 | klys | I was thinking; when I can predict the future it's too much work. |
| 04:08.52 | Supaplex | it's eaiser if you make the future to |
| 04:09.10 | Supaplex | I predict I will /cycle this channel in the next few seconds. |
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| 04:09.13 | brac | ~lart had |
| 04:09.13 | ibot | breaks out the Hoover and sucks up had |
| 04:09.15 | klys | yes, and more time-consuming. though more enjoyable |
| 04:10.40 | klys | what do you suppose can be done to start an online voting booth? |
| 04:11.00 | klys | for polls on stuff I mean, not politics |
| 04:11.48 | klys | there may be the possibility of putting one in a banner and using an onmouseover() script |
| 04:11.50 | Supaplex | like surveymonkey.com? |
| 04:12.16 | klys | hmm, do any at surveymonkey.com use checkboxes? |
| 04:14.17 | klys | I went to one on a membership survey. the lack of possibilities in making a choice is maddening. someone hasn't learned from the failures of multiple choice. |
| 04:16.23 | klys | so, this site is probably not what I mean. I'm looking at the page source now. |
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| 04:19.03 | vontrapp | so apparently compiz is the new default wm for ubuntu |
| 04:19.11 | vontrapp | but with compiz, for some reason, my windows have no decorations |
| 04:19.21 | vontrapp | happened to me before with beryl |
| 04:20.15 | klys | looks like the site uses tables with input tags within an XML div structure, and javascript onclicks |
| 04:21.32 | klys | vontrapp: is gnome-session-manager running in the background before it starts your wm? |
| 04:22.10 | vontrapp | there is no gnome session manager |
| 04:22.30 | vontrapp | there's a gnome-session-properties |
| 04:23.52 | klys | ah, /usr/bin/gnome-session |
| 04:24.20 | vontrapp | doesn't appear to be running |
| 04:24.33 | klys | you can start it after the wm too I think |
| 04:24.52 | vontrapp | when i run it, it says i'm already running one |
| 04:25.06 | klys | quaint. ps aux | grep gnome |
| 04:25.25 | vontrapp | i have an x-session-manager running |
| 04:25.27 | vontrapp | is that why? |
| 04:25.32 | klys | possibly |
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| 04:32.35 | Supaplex | humph. the lexmark x35 utility program on macos is not responding. period. (multiple attempts now) |
| 04:36.21 | klys | any success printing those labels yet? |
| 04:37.27 | Supaplex | labels? |
| 04:37.36 | Supaplex | the envelopes? |
| 04:37.40 | klys | you were printing mailing labels, iirc |
| 04:37.44 | *** join/#utah Sargun (n=Sargun@69-12-240-206.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) |
| 04:37.55 | klys | or envelopes then |
| 04:37.58 | Supaplex | I was considering labels, but held fast to envelopes. |
| 04:38.11 | Sargun | hji |
| 04:38.15 | Sargun | hi |
| 04:38.17 | klys | hil |
| 04:38.39 | Supaplex | some commandline trickery helps :) Apparently OOo thinks it's cute to insert a hidden blank envelope inbetween each printed one. |
| 04:38.51 | klys | hmm |
| 04:40.19 | klys | does your system print postscript? |
| 04:40.25 | *** part/#utah fozzmoo (n=fozz@166-70-238-250.ip.xmission.com) |
| 04:40.46 | Supaplex | yes |
| 04:41.11 | klys | and you restart the printing system a lot then it always crashes? |
| 04:41.23 | Supaplex | different pcs |
| 04:41.33 | klys | k, I hear you have two printers |
| 04:41.57 | Supaplex | OOo was on debian etch. I even removed OOo, and installed their developer snapshot RC they have available just from ~2 weeks ago or so. |
| 04:42.14 | Supaplex | to keep it simple, yes two printers. |
| 04:42.55 | klys | I'm guessing oo.o works okay |
| 04:43.08 | Sargun | No, 18.3289098321093821980382130213984087342198739218973+i92.1321 printers. |
| 04:43.24 | Supaplex | depends on the application. |
| 04:43.31 | Supaplex | yes Sargun is close |
| 04:43.49 | klys | just the mac os x illustrator/what you have does not |
| 04:43.51 | Supaplex | if you count a whole printer as one having a power supply and it's parts... ;) |
| 04:44.10 | Sargun | uhhh.... |
| 04:44.14 | klys | well, I mean hooked-up and good to go printers |
| 04:44.15 | Supaplex | oo.o on any platform I've tried prints empty envelopes. |
| 04:44.23 | Sargun | How do you have ~i92 printers? |
| 04:44.35 | Supaplex | oh, I didn't see that part. |
| 04:45.06 | Lakshmi | hey sargun |
| 04:45.34 | Sargun | Lakshmi, you're alive |
| 04:45.57 | Lakshmi | not for long. 15 mins and counting for my death. |
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| 04:46.40 | vontrapp | grrrr |
| 04:46.50 | vontrapp | so when i try to login i get freeze |
| 04:47.05 | vontrapp | .xsession-errors says a gtk (two, rather) is trying to run suid |
| 04:47.20 | vontrapp | setuid, rather |
| 04:47.34 | elg | how does one feed the contents of a file to a program on stdin using the shebang? |
| 04:47.47 | elg | I have a markdown file. I want it to play cgi, using the shebang line |
| 04:47.56 | vontrapp | but i can't find out what it is, cause it's long gone before i can check for that pid |
| 04:48.23 | klys | elg: you want to output to stdin? |
| 04:48.40 | elg | output to stdout |
| 04:48.44 | klys | cool |
| 04:48.45 | elg | you know, like a cgi |
| 04:48.46 | vontrapp | he wants: #! put this file to stdout |
| 04:48.53 | klys | k |
| 04:49.04 | vontrapp | elg: #! /bin/cat |
| 04:49.13 | Supaplex | #!/bin/cat $0 |
| 04:49.20 | vontrapp | i think you just need cat |
| 04:49.23 | Supaplex | #!/bin/sh eval cat $0 |
| 04:49.40 | Supaplex | ahh yes. |
| 04:49.43 | vontrapp | no, i'm pretty sure you just need #! /bin/cat |
| 04:49.47 | Supaplex | make more sense then I |
| 04:49.53 | Supaplex | than* |
| 04:50.19 | vontrapp | cat is the 'interpreter' |
| 04:51.03 | vontrapp | so what program is wanting to be setuid that is gtk and is causing gtk to yell at me and freeze my login? |
| 04:51.18 | vontrapp | it happens even if i try failsafe gnome |
| 04:51.31 | klys | any how is suid mutually exclusive |
| 04:52.15 | klys | ls -l /usr/bin | grep srw |
| 04:52.16 | Supaplex | suid 'scripts' only work when the binary is suid (and presumably checks suid bits etc). eg, suid perl (antiquated) |
| 04:52.30 | elg | well I do want it to run through markdown |
| 04:52.36 | elg | I just made a shell script with a heredoc instead |
| 04:52.50 | elg | hans.fugal.net/wishlist.cgi |
| 04:54.39 | vontrapp | even when i move .gnome* to a temp folder, it still freezes, yelling about setuid |
| 04:56.34 | vontrapp | it's really annoying |
| 04:56.43 | klys | paste |
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| 04:59.59 | klys | paste |
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| 05:04.02 | vontrapp_ | klys: gnome-session running this time, still no window decorations with compiz |
| 05:06.50 | klys | hmm, I don't know then. |
| 05:07.16 | wps | is it possible to recursively delete all directories (and their contents) of a certain name (from the command line) |
| 05:07.20 | klys | the default gnome wm is usually metacity. |
| 05:07.35 | wps | I know you can with files, but don't know the syntax to delete a directory that way |
| 05:07.42 | vontrapp_ | klys: yeah, until ubuntu 7.10 apparently |
| 05:07.51 | vontrapp_ | wps: rm -r dirname |
| 05:07.53 | klys | rm -rf /path/be/specific/or/else |
| 05:08.53 | wps | if I do "rm -rf folder" it will just delete "folder" and not all of the folder inside of it named "folder" |
| 05:09.13 | wps | s/folder inside/folders inside/ |
| 05:09.24 | klys | wps: will delete everything in "folder" and everything it contained |
| 05:09.37 | wps | yes, that's not what I want |
| 05:10.11 | vontrapp | it will delete folder, and any folders inside of it, whether or not they're named folder |
| 05:10.16 | wps | I want to search through the subdirectories of "folder" recursively for all directories named "xyz" and delete those |
| 05:10.18 | vontrapp | ah, that's what you don't want |
| 05:10.19 | klys | rm -rf `find f01d3r | grep folder` |
| 05:11.07 | wps | is that a tick (as in the key to the left of the 1)? |
| 05:11.16 | klys | yes |
| 05:11.17 | wps | so, for my example, I'd use… |
| 05:11.31 | klys | echo `find folder | grep xyz` |
| 05:11.44 | wps | what does the tick do? |
| 05:11.52 | klys | try the echo and see |
| 05:12.06 | klys | it makes stdout into a parameter-list |
| 05:12.22 | wps | ah |
| 05:15.31 | klys | apt-get install fdupes |
| 05:18.41 | wps | when I run echo `find folder | grep xyz`, how come it lists files inside of the "xyz" directories? |
| 05:20.37 | vontrapp | because find returns all the files with the paths, and grep gets every file with 'xyz' in the path |
| 05:20.48 | wps | an |
| 05:20.49 | wps | ah |
| 05:20.52 | wps | that makes sense |
| 05:21.02 | wps | in the path… not just in the name |
| 05:21.17 | wps | I have two directories |
| 05:21.44 | wps | that are nearly identical |
| 05:21.53 | wps | one has 28725 directories/files |
| 05:22.00 | wps | the other has 28732 |
| 05:22.14 | wps | it appears that ten files didn't copy over when I made the copy |
| 05:22.22 | wps | what's the easiest way to see which ten files are missing? |
| 05:22.27 | wps | an rsync dry run? |
| 05:24.38 | herlo | wps: yeah, that's probably good |
| 05:26.16 | herlo | rsync missed ten files? |
| 05:26.37 | wps | no |
| 05:26.41 | wps | my cp -r |
| 05:26.53 | herlo | uh, could be permissions? |
| 05:27.07 | wps | that's a good guess |
| 05:27.24 | nick125 | Hrm...I can't seem to get anything done in KDE4. |
| 05:27.25 | wps | I know here in a minute after this rsync runs |
| 05:29.39 | klys | nick125: just curious what your benchmark includes |
| 05:30.06 | nick125 | klys: Well, the only thing I've been able to figure out is how to fire up Konsole and crash Xorg. That's about it. |
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| 05:30.17 | klys | ouch |
| 05:30.33 | Supaplex | that's the new ubuntu? |
| 05:30.55 | klys | probably kubuntu or something |
| 05:31.29 | nick125 | I'm going to try to use the beta instead of live SVN...maybe that'll help |
| 05:31.36 | klys | oh, did you use startkde and is dcop running? |
| 05:32.31 | nick125 | startkde crashes Xorg, and running it through GDM creates a semi-function desktop that locks up if you tell the big |
| 05:32.40 | nick125 | "No media backend found" error "Okay". |
| 05:33.53 | klys | well, the first error is with startkde. examine this first to continue. |
| 05:34.59 | nick125 | I'm going to try the beta first |
| 05:35.42 | Supaplex | yeah less-stable should help. *cough* |
| 05:42.06 | wps | I'm interested in opinions about svn repositories |
| 05:42.15 | wps | one repo per project? or multiple projects in one repo? |
| 05:43.38 | Tene | My only opinion about svn is "I like git", and so isn't helpful. |
| 05:43.55 | Tene | I'd personally prefer "One repo per project" |
| 05:44.26 | wps | it seems like that would be nice so that the rev numbers are unique to that project |
| 05:44.31 | sontek | One repo is usually the better way to do it |
| 05:44.35 | klys | supaplex: svn is popularly a successor to cvs, which is popularly a successor to rcs/rsync |
| 05:44.35 | sontek | and then using svn:externals for libraries you share between them |
| 05:45.08 | klys | cvs had a hard time creating and removing directories |
| 05:45.22 | sontek | nick125: use SUSE, KDE4 is solid in it |
| 05:46.12 | wps | thanks |
| 05:46.50 | klys | emacs supports both rcs and cvs, in similar modes. a better idea is shemacs (from the csdl) |
| 05:48.26 | klys | supaplex: had a look at the motherboard I was asking you about? |
| 05:48.38 | klys | remembering of course to get the bios string |
| 05:49.45 | Supaplex | klys: uh yeah.. maybe I'll fire it up in a few minutes here. |
| 05:50.10 | klys | thx bud |
| 05:53.03 | klys | also perhaps it has a sticker on one of the ISA slots |
| 05:53.45 | Supaplex | this late at night, I'm motivationally challenged |
| 05:53.48 | Supaplex | :) |
| 05:55.00 | klys | right, I would recommmend a cookie though who has cookies anyway |
| 05:57.02 | vontrapp | weird |
| 05:57.26 | vontrapp | gkrellm is reporting my wireless cards tx and rx data backwards |
| 05:57.27 | vontrapp | rx is showing as tx and vice-versa |
| 06:04.38 | wps | if I have an old repository copy that I want to build a new repo out of, will it be a problem that there are already .svn folders in there when I import it? |
| 06:05.02 | wps | or will svn ignore them on import? |
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| 06:41.14 | findlay | so, mstar is quite hypocritical |
| 06:41.49 | findlay | they advertise this wonderful symmetric bandwidth rates, but they heavily filter against bittorrent |
| 06:42.43 | wps | do they state that they do so in their policies? |
| 06:42.56 | findlay | supposedly I have 14 Mbits up and I'm delivering all of 22 kbytes at max output |
| 06:43.10 | findlay | wps: not in what I've seen |
| 06:43.18 | findlay | I doubt it |
| 06:44.27 | Supaplex | findlay: yuck. are they still answering phones on sunday to? :-d |
| 06:45.08 | findlay | Supaplex: what do you mean? |
| 06:45.42 | Supaplex | findlay: I use to answer phones for them ... on sundays to. |
| 06:46.28 | findlay | every time I've called, I talked to the same person like that was all they had |
| 06:52.22 | findlay | well, I'm going to try with an ubuntu torrent |
| 06:52.29 | findlay | that should be pretty active |
| 07:13.20 | findlay | so during the whole course of downloading the ubuntu iso I uploaded all of 3% of what I downloaded |
| 07:14.41 | Supaplex | so, in other words, you don't share well. ;) |
| 07:14.54 | Supaplex | hopefully that's an indicator lots of idle torrents are serving the demand |
| 07:16.26 | findlay | well it's picked up a little more now |
| 07:16.43 | Supaplex | humm.. |
| 07:17.03 | Supaplex | klys: looks like I need a cpu and ram for this mainboard. |
| 07:17.07 | findlay | it just downloaded so fast that it was done before the UL's started to pick up |
| 07:18.33 | findlay | Supaplex: I just got my brand new connection and all I want is to see some serious bandwidth :-) |
| 07:19.31 | Supaplex | hummm heatsink. |
| 07:21.23 | klys | supaplex: I'm still here in case you figure it out |
| 07:23.08 | Supaplex | grr video card and .. ram still. I guess I'll use a new heatsink, I can't find any of the others. |
| 08:38.09 | Supaplex | when roomba turns g.i. joe. http://blog.wired.com/defense/2007/10/roomba-maker-un.html |
| 08:43.36 | Supaplex | klys: it looks like I'm out of motherboard jumpers. I need it to set the clock+multiplier on this board. |
| 08:44.33 | Supaplex | I have some, somewhere, but neuron directory service is offline for that item. :P |
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| 13:53.39 | brac | why? why is monosyllabic anything but? |
| 14:00.33 | elg | because, brac. |
| 14:00.50 | elg | just because you're monosyllabic doesn't mean everything must be |
| 14:01.51 | jsmith | -chat the weather |
| 14:01.51 | brac | the weather and mp3 player that I happen to be a "really hard class" |
| 14:02.52 | elg | sounds like the school of hard knocks |
| 14:05.01 | elg | -lart emcnabb |
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| 14:12.12 | elg | well this is dumb. a 'story' in Science magazine about DNA ancestry tests: |
| 14:12.14 | elg | "If a test-taker is just interested in finding out where there are some people in the world that share the same DNA as them, then these tests can certainly tell them that," said Deborah Bolnick of the University of Texas in Austin. "But they're not going to tell you every place or every group in the world where people share your DNA. Nor will they necessarily be able to tell you exactly where your ancestors lived or [what race or social group] they identified w |
| 14:12.14 | elg | ith." |
| 14:12.25 | *** join/#utah thaddeusq (n=thaddeus@216.49.181.128) |
| 14:13.46 | elg | Uh, yeah. DNA doesn't tell you what people thought or where they lived. Do you think people actually believe that? This is where I scratch my chin and wonder whether to be peeved by the partypooper scientists that feel the need to put people in their place with unneeded criticism, or that the testing companies might actually be claiming that and/or people might actually beleive that |
| 14:14.51 | elg | I should write an article about how we shouldn't use computers for genealogy because the computer can't tell us whether ancestor A is really truly the parent of ancestor B |
| 14:22.06 | MSC386 | I think that would be a worthy endeavor. |
| 14:22.35 | tensai | elg: I don't see any unnecessary criticism from that |
| 14:23.54 | elg | there's no untrue criticism |
| 14:25.11 | elg | but the obvious gist is, "you bozos stop doing DNA tests for ancestry, we don't like it. DNA testing should be for serious science" |
| 14:25.11 | MSC386 | How do you mean? There could be some criticism that might be disenguous. |
| 14:26.06 | *** join/#utah fozzmoo (n=fozz@66.7.122.158) |
| 14:28.39 | MSC386 | I agree. |
| 14:36.04 | fozzmoo | Wooo! Drudge is carrying this story: COMCAST blocks some Internet traffic; Tests confirm data discrimination by number 2 service provider... |
| 14:36.12 | fozzmoo | http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21376597/ |
| 14:36.33 | elg | i can't get to it. comcast is blocking me |
| 14:37.18 | fozzmoo | heh heh. |
| 14:37.28 | fozzmoo | Who's #1 service provider? |
| 14:38.04 | elg | man, that's a poor article |
| 14:38.24 | elg | are they blocking or not? "only blocks complete file uploads"? how? |
| 14:38.43 | elg | and tripe like "one person's upload is another's download" |
| 14:40.41 | fozzmoo | elg: Maybe you're getting content substituted by comcast. ;) |
| 14:41.12 | elg | heh. no, i'm actually not with comcast |
| 14:42.21 | maquis | so, did you guys see the thing on /. about the lawyers who say that viewing or copying the source of their website is infringing on their copyright? |
| 14:44.12 | maquis | http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/07/10/18/2123233.shtml |
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| 14:45.16 | MSC386 | Go figure... They're lawyers. |
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| 14:59.06 | MSC386 | Interesting articles. |
| 15:01.48 | maquis | the thing that scares me about that legal firm is that they specialize in copyright and other Internet law... |
| 15:01.51 | maquis | and yet... |
| 15:01.53 | maquis | *shudder* |
| 15:02.00 | maquis | they obviously know nothing |
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| 15:10.56 | MSC386 | It's all pretty scary to me. |
| 15:20.51 | shadowwire | me too |
| 15:21.43 | maquis | urgh... |
| 15:21.51 | maquis | thunderbird wouldn't delete the emails off the server... |
| 15:21.56 | maquis | and... outlook is braindead |
| 15:22.56 | MSC386 | I don't like OutLook much... |
| 15:23.38 | MSC386 | By the way, I'm a friend of Sinuhe's -- I've been here before. |
| 15:23.52 | maquis | hello friend if Sinuhe's |
| 15:24.09 | MSC386 | He once worked for me as my IT Guy at my Company. |
| 15:24.25 | MSC386 | Thank, Maquis. Cool Handle. |
| 15:24.39 | MSC386 | I like Trek, too. |
| 15:28.03 | tensai | maquis: did you see that thing on /. where somebody said something inflammatory and a bunch of wanna-bes debated it to no useful end? |
| 15:31.22 | Jayce^ | tensai, I think I remember that one... |
| 15:31.51 | tensai | Jayce^: it was the one with the link to goatse, if that helps |
| 15:31.54 | jsmith | tensai: I've been seeing that for 10 years now ;-) |
| 15:32.37 | tensai | jsmith: I haven't been to slashdot since 9/23/2005 |
| 15:32.51 | jsmith | tensai: You remember the day? |
| 15:33.27 | tensai | slashdot.org. 259200 IN A 127.0.0.1 |
| 15:33.29 | Jayce^ | tensai, it only counts if you also quit digg, etc.. |
| 15:33.42 | tensai | jsmith: it's the date of db.slashdot.org on my bind server :) |
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| 15:34.41 | thaddeusq | jsmith: of course tensai remembers the day, it's the day he was "saved" :) |
| 15:35.11 | MSC386 | Who needs to be saved? |
| 15:35.24 | *** join/#utah sinuhe (n=sinuhe@class1-nat.gurulabs.com) |
| 15:35.27 | tensai | Jayce^: digg always struck me as /.++ so I've never been interested |
| 15:35.41 | jsmith | MSC386: The important question is ... "Saved from what?" |
| 15:35.44 | Jayce^ | tensai, I wouldn't necessarily add the ++... |
| 15:35.50 | thaddeusq | MSC386: anybody who reads /. on a regular basis. |
| 15:35.56 | Jayce^ | next generation maybe |
| 15:35.58 | tensai | Jayce^: ok, /.ng |
| 15:35.59 | MSC386 | Touche... |
| 15:36.02 | Jayce^ | :) |
| 15:36.49 | MSC386 | Actually, I don't read /. on any basis... I just don't like it all that much. |
| 15:37.28 | maquis | i don't read /., but my husband does |
| 15:37.31 | maquis | so... |
| 15:37.44 | tensai | maquis: but he just reads it for the articles, not the comments? |
| 15:37.48 | maquis | tensai: yes... |
| 15:37.56 | tensai | sure. that's what they all say |
| 15:38.00 | tensai | ;) |
| 15:38.05 | maquis | some of the comments to this particular article are pretty good if you just read the 4s and 5s |
| 15:38.11 | maquis | but he likes the headlines |
| 15:38.18 | MSC386 | Yeah.... |
| 15:39.30 | tensai | the final straw for me was an article about utah passing some lame-o law requiring ISPs to offer filtered internet using some state supplied filter list |
| 15:40.00 | tensai | every 4 or 5 comment was about how utah was mandating that all internet be filtered and why couldn't utah just leave the porn alone |
| 15:40.51 | Jayce^ | tensai, it was all part of the grand neo-con revolution.. |
| 15:40.58 | tensai | I bet 90% of them didn't even read the article |
| 15:41.28 | tensai | and the law was stupid and all, but they weren't debating on its merits but on what they imagined it was |
| 15:41.38 | sinuhe | MSC386: You don't read? I've known you for awhile and that's a new one to me. |
| 15:42.01 | shadowwire | How are you reading this? |
| 15:42.03 | shadowwire | jk :) |
| 15:42.32 | tensai | shadowwire: screen reader |
| 15:42.34 | sinuhe | Touche |
| 15:42.50 | MSC386 | I don't read /., but I read on a regular basis. |
| 15:42.56 | ^Migs^ | does anyone know of a Linux clone of The Incredible Machine? |
| 15:43.21 | MSC386 | Not me,no. |
| 15:45.40 | MSC386 | Poor Tensai... |
| 15:46.35 | tensai | o/~ poor poor joseph, whatcha gonna do? things look bad for you, hey. whatcha gonna do? o/~ |
| 15:47.25 | MSC386 | Yup... |
| 15:47.38 | MSC386 | Hello, Sinuhe... |
| 15:53.21 | Jayce^ | tensai, what a pretty coat you have... |
| 15:54.00 | Jayce^ | ~ping rsimpkins |
| 15:54.00 | ibot | pong rsimpkins |
| 15:56.38 | tensai | Jayce^: you like? it's red and yellow and green and brown and scarlet and black and ochre and peach and ... |
| 15:58.43 | Jayce^ | scarlet and mauve... and.. |
| 15:58.57 | Jayce^ | donny version of course.... |
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| 15:58.58 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 15:59.04 | elg | any phpgedview users here? |
| 15:59.17 | elg | for the life of me I can't see how to export a gedcom on this demo. maybe they have it disabled or something? |
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| 15:59.52 | tensai | I wish amazon had the donny version as an mp3 |
| 16:00.12 | tensai | maquis: make it happen! |
| 16:04.26 | maquis | tensai: the donny version of what? |
| 16:05.00 | tensai | maquis: why joseph of course |
| 16:05.10 | maquis | ah |
| 16:21.16 | herlo | http://slashdot.org/articles/07/10/19/1417238.shtml |
| 16:22.59 | unum | hmmm my nscd seemed to be causing trouble with my php script accessing ldap |
| 16:31.27 | tensai | anybody know how to export all the values from a berkeley database? |
| 16:32.06 | Jayce^ | tensai, got a rip of my disc somewhere |
| 16:33.21 | *** join/#utah sinuhe (n=sinuhe@class1-nat.gurulabs.com) |
| 16:35.24 | tensai | aha! it's the db_dump -p that I need. without -p it's just some sort of encoded data. |
| 16:37.20 | jsmith | Sun Labs is also working on WebMeetme |
| 16:38.14 | jsmith | Wrong channel... oops |
| 16:39.05 | ^Migs^ | http://www.bullshitbingo.net/cards/bullshit/ |
| 16:41.13 | herlo | ~language ^Migs^ |
| 16:41.20 | ibot | ACTION grabs ^Migs^ by the ear and washes ^Migs^'s mouth out with soap |
| 16:41.20 | herlo | :) |
| 16:41.41 | herlo | ibot: you're kind of slow today |
| 16:42.06 | ^Migs^ | sorry, didn't even look at the link really |
| 16:42.19 | ^Migs^ | er, the URL, I mean |
| 17:07.47 | ^Migs^ | has anyone come across any FOSS anti plagiarism software? |
| 17:07.51 | ^Migs^ | similar to TurnItIn? |
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| 17:15.33 | elg | ^Migs^: maybe you should just copy a proprietary one |
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| 17:22.29 | ^Migs^ | that's so ironic it might just work! |
| 17:33.19 | redbeard2 | looks like we may need to move pretty soon. anyone know of any apts or houses open in salt lake? |
| 17:34.32 | levi | Not in Salt Lake, no. |
| 17:35.18 | RyanE | redbeard2: don't want to move in with Pete? :) |
| 17:38.54 | tensai | redbeard2: are you even home often enough to warrant having a home? |
| 17:39.54 | redbeard2 | RyanE: pete? |
| 17:40.09 | redbeard2 | tensai: my wife is home often enough to |
| 17:40.44 | tensai | ah yeah, the wife. always with the wanting to eat food and have shelter. |
| 17:42.46 | herlo | redbeard2: rent or buy? |
| 17:44.39 | ^Migs^ | and the kids aren't much less demanding |
| 17:45.27 | redbeard2 | herlo: dunno at this point |
| 17:46.10 | levi | I'm sure there are all sorts of homes for sale in SLC. |
| 17:48.59 | herlo | redbeard2: well, I've been watching for houses and it seems they've dried up a bit. People are holding onto them trying to ride out the latest little slump methinks... |
| 17:49.10 | herlo | Its a good time to buy though if you can find something that works |
| 17:49.35 | herlo | my Friend Richard Stringham is a realtor in Provo and can help you if you like.. Let me know and i'll give you his info... |
| 17:49.38 | redbeard2 | herlo: i don't mind buying if i can find something to buy. but i'm also okay with renting at this point. |
| 17:49.47 | levi | What are interest rates like these days? |
| 17:51.51 | redbeard2 | dunno |
| 17:52.12 | RyanE | redbeard2: yeah, Pete and Suzanne. |
| 17:53.23 | herlo | redbeard2: me to actually |
| 17:54.25 | herlo | levi: I think they told me I was around 6.75% and I don't have perfect credit |
| 17:55.02 | RyanE | herlo: I assume that's still a 30y fixed, right? |
| 17:55.05 | herlo | yup |
| 17:55.18 | RyanE | herlo: you, not 'perfect credit'? shocking. :) |
| 17:55.20 | herlo | RyanE: actually its a 75year fixed rate |
| 17:55.25 | herlo | RyanE: that hurts |
| 17:55.26 | RyanE | herlo: LOL |
| 17:55.46 | herlo | RyanE: that hurts more |
| 17:56.27 | RyanE | herlo: I think the 75 year fixed rate is known as 'renting'. |
| 17:57.22 | RyanE | herlo: yeah, I'm in a grumpy mood today. Need to hit something. |
| 17:57.26 | tensai | RyanE: renting is the 75 year interest only |
| 17:57.58 | RyanE | tensai: I guess so, but I'm thinking that 75 year terms, you'll never pay it off, no matter the terms. |
| 17:58.47 | tensai | RyanE: which is true, but even after 30 years you'd have paid off some of it. with an interest only you never make headway. |
| 17:59.50 | ^Migs^ | PULLMAN, WASH. (SatireWire.com) — The profusion of international news available on the Internet has made it increasingly difficult for the average American to ignore the rest of the world, a trend researchers say threatens Americans' long, proud history of disregarding anything not about them. |
| 18:00.08 | ^Migs^ | "You'd think these Internet people would know that," Barker added. "I mean, that's why the Internet is called America Online, right? It's supposed to be about America." |
| 18:00.10 | ^Migs^ | hahaha |
| 18:00.12 | ^Migs^ | http://www.satirewire.com/news/0010/international.shtml |
| 18:00.14 | brac | [SatireWire | Americans Annoyed By International Shit On Internet] |
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| 18:04.31 | tensai | ^Migs^ is on a roll with the language today |
| 18:04.53 | RyanE | I think brac is the one who let th elanguage out. |
| 18:05.18 | tensai | unintentional language perhaps |
| 18:07.47 | dataw0lf | well, it's unintentional when I scream "F**K!!!" in my office and slam my keyboard down, but my VP still stops by and tells me to quiet down. |
| 18:09.27 | thaddeusq | dataw0lf: I'd get fired if I did that. |
| 18:10.22 | dataw0lf | Really? Interesting. |
| 18:10.30 | dataw0lf | I'd probably have to eat a couple babies to get fired. |
| 18:10.46 | vontrapp | Jayce^: Re: GPS -> Neo 1974 |
| 18:11.01 | thaddeusq | dataw0lf: I work for the Largest Religion in the state. |
| 18:11.13 | dataw0lf | oh, well I work in Nevada with a bunch of sinners. |
| 18:11.22 | dataw0lf | so go you, I guess. |
| 18:13.07 | thaddeusq | vontrapp: That's how I felt. I went there, was going to say that I love my Garmin 60CSx, but, then saw I had to sign in to comment, so I left. |
| 18:13.51 | JoshH | thaddeusq, just show your boss this article: http://www.networkworld.com/community/node/20718 |
| 18:14.32 | thaddeusq | JoshH: If you work for a religion, they can be a little bit picky about "certain" things. |
| 18:14.57 | *** join/#utah bbeattie (n=media@65.48.77.206) |
| 18:15.06 | JoshH | well, you could just yell FUDGE or SHIZ instead |
| 18:15.58 | dataw0lf | heh |
| 18:15.59 | thaddeusq | JoshH: I haven't been one to swear much anyway, so it's really not an issue for me. |
| 18:16.07 | fozzmoo | Dammit! |
| 18:16.19 | thaddeusq | ~language fozzmoo |
| 18:16.20 | ibot | ACTION grabs fozzmoo by the ear and washes fozzmoo's mouth out with soap |
| 18:16.33 | thaddeusq | just like my mom used to do. |
| 18:17.05 | dataw0lf | my mom swears like a sailor, but she still washed my mouth out with soap |
| 18:17.08 | dataw0lf | talk about hypocrisy |
| 18:20.52 | fozzmoo | heh heh. |
| 18:25.38 | sontek | My mom does't swear at all, I had to learn that shit on my own |
| 18:25.45 | fozzmoo | hee hee. |
| 18:26.15 | dataw0lf | ~language sontek |
| 18:26.16 | ibot | ACTION grabs sontek by the ear and washes sontek's mouth out with soap |
| 18:26.34 | dataw0lf | following in my Mom's footsteps... |
| 18:27.16 | sontek | ~beat dataw0lf |
| 18:27.16 | ibot | ACTION beats dataw0lf with a dripping-wet & less-than-fresh fish |
| 18:27.22 | sontek | following my dads footsteps.. |
| 18:27.25 | sontek | ;) |
| 18:27.28 | dataw0lf | haha |
| 18:28.05 | dataw0lf | child abuse is no laughing matter. |
| 18:28.08 | dataw0lf | Unless it's on Fark. |
| 18:29.45 | brasto | ~fark |
| 18:29.48 | sontek | (: |
| 18:30.11 | brasto | ~dict fark |
| 18:30.17 | herlo | frak! |
| 18:30.21 | brasto | ~wiki fark |
| 18:30.31 | fozzmoo | Felgercarb! |
| 18:30.39 | brasto | ~frak herlo |
| 18:30.47 | herlo | ~herlo brasto |
| 18:30.47 | ibot | ACTION pokes brasto in they eye with a sharp needle |
| 18:30.58 | brasto | ~brastotack herlo |
| 18:30.58 | ibot | ACTION lectures herlo on properly designed databases, normalization, writing quality code with comments, and active-voice writing until herlo can't take anymore and goes berserk. |
| 18:31.15 | maquis | ack!!! |
| 18:31.20 | herlo | ~simpsons brasto |
| 18:31.21 | ibot | ACTION sends brasto chasing a rolling pink donut down the hill screaming, "its still good!, its still good!" |
| 18:32.28 | brasto | ~frak $1 is <action> sends a barrage of substitute swear words $1's direction |
| 18:32.29 | ibot | brasto: okay |
| 18:32.34 | brasto | ~frak herlo |
| 18:32.35 | ibot | ACTION sends a barrage of substitute swear words herlo's direction |
| 18:32.49 | sontek | ~frak herlo |
| 18:32.50 | ibot | ACTION sends a barrage of substitute swear words herlo's direction |
| 18:33.01 | sontek | that looked like to much fun to pass up |
| 18:34.12 | brasto | with milk |
| 18:34.46 | herlo | sontek: awesome! |
| 18:34.51 | herlo | sontek: the word is euphamism |
| 18:35.09 | sontek | euphemism ? |
| 18:35.23 | sontek | :D |
| 18:35.34 | goozbach | libvirt rocks |
| 18:35.59 | sontek | if you want to use inferior virtualization to vmware, its a good 2nd place |
| 18:36.16 | dataw0lf | goozbach: the Python bindings are really nice. |
| 18:36.52 | goozbach | vmware sucks |
| 18:37.04 | goozbach | bloated, slow running, not very scriptable |
| 18:37.15 | dataw0lf | vmware is, indeed, terrible. |
| 18:37.20 | goozbach | dataw0lf: I've been playing with the perl bindings |
| 18:37.21 | sontek | but it can run any OS on any distro, when redhat can get xen to do that, i'll agree |
| 18:37.39 | fozzmoo | That's its only merit. |
| 18:37.59 | fozzmoo | I ran into that problem trying to get a centos3 guest up yesterday. |
| 18:38.10 | dataw0lf | goozbach: haven't seen em. |
| 18:38.48 | sontek | but its a very good merit, since my main reason for virtualization right now is to test my software on all distros and to get packages working on each one |
| 18:39.02 | goozbach | ~cpan Sys::Virt |
| 18:39.08 | Tene | sontek: why is that relevant if it will run distros I care about on distros I care about? |
| 18:39.13 | herlo | ~lart redbeard2 |
| 18:39.13 | ibot | gives redbeard2 an extra strength ACME sleeping pill, sending redbeard2 to sleep for 150 years, and awakening to seven strange dwarfs and a large apple |
| 18:39.37 | dataw0lf | sontek: I don't really care to get Xen working on TheNextBigDistroForTenMinutesux |
| 18:39.45 | redbeard2 | ibot: oh man. don't i wish. |
| 18:40.24 | sontek | Tene: I'm writing applications so other people can use it, not so people who use the same distro as me can use it |
| 18:40.37 | sontek | dataw0lf: I'm not talking about getting Xen on other distros, i'm talking about running distros on Xen |
| 18:40.39 | Tene | pfft, lame. |
| 18:40.56 | fozzmoo | Tene: Heh. |
| 18:41.13 | Tene | sontek: I've run windows under Xen before... and you can't get some linux distros working? |
| 18:41.15 | dataw0lf | sontek: Every distro I use I can run on Xen nicely. |
| 18:41.29 | fozzmoo | Tene: You can run anything on Xen if it's not paravirtualized. |
| 18:41.39 | Tene | fozzmoo: ssh, I'm cheating. ;) |
| 18:41.42 | fozzmoo | :) |
| 18:42.22 | *** join/#utah vontrapp (n=von@128.187.182.98) |
| 18:42.28 | Tene | ~levi vontrapp |
| 18:42.28 | ibot | ACTION gives vontrapp a hovercraft and then fills it with eels! |
| 18:43.22 | Supaplex | awe :( |
| 18:43.51 | Supaplex | bring it back soon, ok? |
| 18:44.15 | sontek | trade ya? I'll give you a sparc classic |
| 18:44.53 | Supaplex | well, if you would have asked before last month, you could have got your own free |
| 18:45.44 | Supaplex | s/ before// |
| 18:45.44 | sontek | pssh, now you tell me |
| 18:45.51 | tristanbob | anyone know if Ubuntu supports PCMCIA flash cards? |
| 18:45.53 | Supaplex | pssh, now you ask. ;) |
| 18:46.01 | tristanbob | like a router would use for storage |
| 18:46.02 | Supaplex | tristanbob: linux does |
| 18:46.17 | sontek | tristanbob: it should, unless the specifically took it out of the kernel :P |
| 18:46.28 | dataw0lf | tristanbob: yes. |
| 18:46.32 | tristanbob | I insert card - nothing happens |
| 18:46.37 | tristanbob | what next? |
| 18:46.47 | dataw0lf | check dmesg |
| 18:46.49 | sontek | dmesg and /var/log/messages |
| 18:46.54 | tristanbob | dmesg shows card inserted |
| 18:46.58 | Supaplex | or cat /proc/partitions |
| 18:47.21 | tristanbob | "pccard: PCMCIA card inserted into slot 0" |
| 18:47.23 | tristanbob | that is all |
| 18:47.23 | Supaplex | cardbus devices should show up with lspci |
| 18:47.49 | tristanbob | Supaplex: I see it in lspci |
| 18:48.00 | Supaplex | you might need to load a driver for it. sadly I have some pcmcia/cardbus devices, but no system to use them anymore |
| 18:48.09 | tristanbob | CardBus bridge: 02 Micro, Inc |
| 18:49.47 | Supaplex | run modconf as root, and see if there are any pcmcia storage/ide drivers etc |
| 18:50.34 | tristanbob | modconf command not found |
| 18:50.45 | Supaplex | install it :) |
| 18:51.01 | tristanbob | sudo apt-get install modconf |
| 18:51.04 | tristanbob | working.... |
| 18:52.33 | Supaplex | it's a very handy utility. too bad it does not (yet) use modinfo or kernel configure-help files to give you hints about specific modules. It might use modconf, but that's only for the one line summary (I think) |
| 18:53.00 | tristanbob | kernel/drivers/media/ ??? |
| 18:53.28 | tristanbob | kernel/drivers/pci/hotplug ?? |
| 18:53.34 | brasto | good thing redbeard didn't wake up to a prince with those 7 dwarves... |
| 18:53.37 | tristanbob | kernel/drivers/pcmcia |
| 18:53.46 | Supaplex | pci hotplug is for hot add/remove of pci cards |
| 18:53.54 | Supaplex | yea, look in the pcmcia area |
| 18:54.32 | tristanbob | Supaplex: nothing jumps out at me |
| 18:54.40 | Supaplex | ~scare tristanbob |
| 18:54.41 | ibot | ACTION puts on a hockey mask and jumps out at tristanbob |
| 18:54.43 | Supaplex | ;) |
| 18:54.59 | tristanbob | ok, ibot jumped at me |
| 18:55.10 | Supaplex | 1m, i'll brb |
| 18:55.14 | tristanbob | thx |
| 18:58.01 | Supaplex | I know I mentioned it, but did you cat /proc/partitions to see if it's in there? |
| 19:03.46 | jnbek | http://digitaljournal.com/article/241268/ |
| 19:13.24 | ^Migs^ | this is an awesome web-based LDAP browser: http://www.gosa-project.org |
| 19:18.22 | *** join/#utah moriancumer (n=jared@c-67-177-42-19.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 19:43.15 | nick125 | Wow, dansguardian is taking forever to start. |
| 19:43.24 | nick125 | It's been going at 98% CPU for the last 16 minutes |
| 19:48.27 | tensai | nick125: it shouldn't do that. pull up strace on it. |
| 19:48.49 | nick125 | It's caching the blacklists/phraselists |
| 19:48.59 | nick125 | Which is 31MB and 2MB, respectively. |
| 19:51.16 | *** join/#utah fozzmoo (n=fozz@66.7.122.158) |
| 19:52.04 | Supaplex | so nick125 is reading from NFS on a T1? |
| 19:52.07 | nick125 | I guess it's better to cache and wait a very long time for it to start than to not cache and spend more time per request |
| 19:52.10 | nick125 | Supaplex: No, local disk |
| 19:52.55 | Supaplex | try a nearly empty list to test. I'm with tensai, that's a long time... |
| 19:53.26 | tensai | it's been a while since I ran dans guardian though |
| 19:56.21 | Supaplex | ditto. atleast strace it before you kill it off (whatever you decide to do) |
| 20:06.07 | *** join/#utah decriptor (n=sshaw@137.65.56.99) |
| 20:34.57 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@dhcp02.cs.nmsu.edu) |
| 20:34.59 | brac | so your most sensitive regions, Jayce^ ! |
| 20:35.20 | jsmith | -chat about why does |
| 20:35.20 | brac | why does chapter.xml have a computer |
| 20:35.31 | elg | yeah, how unfair is that? |
| 20:35.33 | Tene | -chat jayce likes |
| 20:35.33 | brac | jayce likes |
| 20:35.41 | elg | jayce likes his |
| 20:35.47 | elg | -chat jayce likes |
| 20:35.47 | jsmith | -chat about Jayce^ is |
| 20:35.47 | brac | jayce likes his treo |
| 20:35.48 | brac | Jayce^ is hermaphroditic. |
| 20:36.00 | elg | ~gender Jayce^ |
| 20:36.00 | ibot | I heard Jayce^ is not sure. |
| 20:36.08 | Jayce^ | jsmith, oooh... |
| 20:36.10 | jsmith | chat about gender of |
| 20:36.17 | jsmith | -chat about gender of |
| 20:36.17 | brac | gender of the asterisk dialplan |
| 20:36.18 | *** join/#utah Newsome (n=sorenson@adsl-75-0-136-70.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net) |
| 20:36.24 | Supaplex | lol |
| 20:36.26 | elg | -asterisk was |
| 20:36.31 | elg | -chat asterisk was |
| 20:36.31 | brac | asterisk was really crappy diamonds |
| 20:36.44 | jsmith | I think brac has been hanging out in too many Asterisk channels |
| 20:36.55 | Supaplex | -chat fxo |
| 20:36.55 | brac | fxo was |
| 20:37.08 | herlo | guess what I saw today |
| 20:37.14 | elg | a motorcyclist |
| 20:37.16 | herlo | It'll be up early next week probably |
| 20:37.23 | herlo | on utosf.org |
| 20:37.28 | herlo | elg: nope |
| 20:37.45 | herlo | a UTOSC video... |
| 20:37.47 | Supaplex | a tire |
| 20:38.01 | elg | richard stallman gets a haircut from the MTC barbers? |
| 20:38.48 | herlo | elg: could be |
| 20:39.05 | herlo | elg: its the guy who doesn't represent stallman, but knows him well... |
| 20:39.48 | elg | esr |
| 20:40.13 | Tene | herlo: I'm currently sitting next to a guy that likes talking about knowing stallman well. |
| 20:40.25 | herlo | Tene: woudl that be sinuhe ? |
| 20:40.35 | Tene | herlo: Of course. |
| 20:40.54 | *** join/#utah unum (n=unum@70.89.247.221) |
| 20:41.26 | fozzmoo | I know RMS too well for my own comfort. |
| 20:41.54 | herlo | Tene: Woohoo! |
| 20:42.00 | fozzmoo | unum slept with rms |
| 20:42.07 | herlo | whoa! TMI! |
| 20:42.09 | fozzmoo | I mean, he slept in the same apartment. |
| 20:42.14 | Supaplex | fozzmoo: too much non-free stuff on your puters? |
| 20:42.25 | fozzmoo | Supaplex: Worse than that. |
| 20:42.39 | fozzmoo | I got ripped a new one by RMS for paying for gas with my debit card. |
| 20:42.45 | Supaplex | he hid his socks in your dresser? |
| 20:42.46 | Tene | Heh. |
| 20:42.56 | Supaplex | yikes |
| 20:43.17 | fozzmoo | And then I had to listen to his Ukrainian folk music. |
| 20:43.24 | Supaplex | teach us O wise one |
| 20:44.05 | elg | fozzmoo: sounds like a fun time was had. please tell us more |
| 20:44.30 | Supaplex | fozzmoo: so, do you still use a debit card? :) |
| 20:44.49 | fozzmoo | I use it MORE, in fact. |
| 20:44.55 | fozzmoo | Just out of spite. |
| 20:45.03 | Supaplex | heh |
| 20:46.11 | fozzmoo | I have never met a more messianical person in my life. |
| 20:50.39 | bucky | RMS claims to be an atheist.. but I've seen photos of him meditating... is he Buddhist? |
| 20:52.05 | Tene | bucky: what's the relation between "athiest" and "meditating"? |
| 20:52.44 | Tene | Why do you think it strange for an athiest to meditate? |
| 20:53.32 | fozzmoo | meditation has nothing to do with belief in a higher power. |
| 20:53.43 | fozzmoo | In the case of RMS, in his mind, he is the higher power. |
| 20:53.56 | bucky | ic |
| 20:54.37 | nick125 | I need to fix dansguardian on monday...it's been starting for an hour and a half. |
| 20:54.56 | levi | RMS is Saint iGNUcious. |
| 20:55.17 | bucky | lol |
| 20:55.45 | Supaplex | nick125: upgrade the 386sx16. you need more than 4mb of ram. ;) |
| 20:57.04 | levi | No, really. There are pictures of him dressed up like a Catholic Priest or something. |
| 20:57.24 | fozzmoo | levi: That's him mocking religion. :) |
| 20:57.29 | Jayce^ | levi, yeah, he's used it for a few speeches.. |
| 20:59.13 | levi | fozzmoo: Well, yeah, but he's only half-mocking. He really is the 'charismatic leader' of a group that borders on religion. |
| 20:59.19 | fozzmoo | sure. |
| 20:59.49 | fozzmoo | charismatic is subjective, I guess. |
| 21:00.33 | Supaplex | I was begining to wonder that myself. but yeah, not all the ideal qualities need apply |
| 21:05.08 | unum | ya we were all really pleased the next year when it was bruce perens who came |
| 21:05.16 | unum | he talked to people and was very reasonable |
| 21:05.17 | sinuhe | St IGNUcious is a joke. It relates to the editor wars around emacs and has nothing to do with making fun of religion. |
| 21:07.06 | levi | Yeah, clearly it was presented as a joke, but when a guy like RMS and in his position makes a joke like that, you have to look beyond the surface. |
| 21:07.11 | sontek | Yeah, I emailed RMS about coming to UTOSC, he replied with a 12 page email about things we need to for him, things he doesn't like, etc. I promptly deleted the email and moved on :P |
| 21:08.10 | Supaplex | haha |
| 21:09.49 | Supaplex | imagine what reaction there would be if it got forwarded to the mailing list :) |
| 21:09.52 | brasto | ~brac |
| 21:09.53 | ibot | methinks brac is the enemy, or a bnot |
| 21:09.54 | Supaplex | oh well. old news. |
| 21:10.08 | sontek | Its still in my gmail if you guys want to see it |
| 21:10.10 | brasto | ~bnot |
| 21:10.13 | sontek | its pretty lengthy though |
| 21:10.26 | sinuhe | sontek: I have access to it on the GNU shell server. It's a text file. |
| 21:10.33 | Supaplex | I don't have time for it now, b ut maybe later :) |
| 21:11.50 | sontek | here was my favorite part: |
| 21:11.51 | sontek | As a result, I am very reluctant to participate _in any way_ in events |
| 21:11.51 | sontek | that carry the slogan of "open source". I want events that I |
| 21:11.51 | sontek | participate in to give support visibly to the free software movement. |
| 21:11.53 | sontek | Can the event change its name? |
| 21:12.36 | Supaplex | UTFOSSC? |
| 21:12.54 | Supaplex | UTGPLC |
| 21:13.05 | sontek | I know he means well, but I don't think anyone in their right mind would think they were important enough to get a conference to change their name if they came :P |
| 21:13.21 | sinuhe | sontek: It's not about self importance. |
| 21:13.51 | sinuhe | And there have been a few groups that *have* changed their name in response to him. |
| 21:13.56 | levi | I guess sinuhe is the resident RMS/GNU apologist? |
| 21:13.59 | Supaplex | sontek: what name did he suggest? |
| 21:14.11 | sontek | Supaplex: he didn't suggest one, he just asked if we could |
| 21:15.12 | sinuhe | http://www.gnu.org/people/#sinuhe |
| 21:15.14 | brac | [GNU's Who - GNU Project - Free Software Foundation (FSF)] |
| 21:16.27 | Tene | It's not about self importance, it's about saying why he won't come. |
| 21:16.55 | levi | Heh, Anand Babu's blurb is a little out of date. |
| 21:17.14 | *** join/#utah unum_ (n=unum@70.89.247.221) |
| 21:17.48 | levi | Any claims about the relative speed of a supercomputer are bound to be false within a year or two. |
| 21:17.52 | Supaplex | ~seen unum |
| 21:17.55 | ibot | unum is currently on #utah (37m 1s) #uphpu (37m 1s). Has said a total of 2 messages. Is idling for 12m 39s, last said: 'he talked to people and was very reasonable'. |
| 21:18.13 | Supaplex | oh I get it. nm |
| 21:18.54 | Tene | ibot: logs |
| 21:18.55 | ibot | well, logs is apt/ibot/infobot/jbot/purl all log daily to http://ibot.rikers.org/<channelname>/ where channelname is html encoded ie: %23debian | lines that start with a space are not shown | some channels have stats at http://ibot.rikers.org/stats/<channelname>.html.gz |
| 21:19.49 | *** topic/#utah by Tene -> The channel for content free discussion in Utah | http://plug.org/irc | goozbach's laptop shipped! | This channel is logged at http://ibot.rikers.org/#utah/ |
| 21:20.00 | *** topic/#utah by Tene -> The channel for content free discussion in Utah | http://plug.org/irc | goozbach's laptop shipped! | This channel is logged at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23utah/ |
| 21:21.04 | sontek | elg spoke a total of 605 words! |
| 21:21.04 | sinuhe | Tene: One of the drawbacks of instant, electronic communication is that everything you say and do is easily recorded and made publically available. |
| 21:21.05 | sontek | elg's faithful follower, levi, didn't speak so much: 571 words. |
| 21:21.51 | sinuhe | Tene: I imagine our tendancy as humans is to say more stupid things than insightful or helpful. |
| 21:22.34 | sontek | Intelligent conversations aren't as fun |
| 21:23.16 | sontek | statements like <goozbach> BOOB! make life worth living! |
| 21:23.32 | sinuhe | sontek: All hail making fun of goozbach! |
| 21:23.59 | sontek | haha, I just grabbed it from http://ibot.rikers.org/stats/utah.html.gz |
| 21:25.54 | sontek | But I don't think you should say something if you have to look over your shoulder to see whos listening before you say it |
| 21:26.13 | shadowwire | Python or PHP? |
| 21:26.20 | sontek | Python |
| 21:26.25 | shadowwire | Why? |
| 21:26.28 | sontek | ~php-- |
| 21:26.44 | shadowwire | What does that mean? |
| 21:27.02 | shadowwire | (~php--)? |
| 21:27.08 | sontek | shadowwire: It gives php less karma |
| 21:27.12 | sontek | ~karma php |
| 21:27.12 | ibot | php has neutral karma |
| 21:27.15 | sinuhe | sontek: Some things should be kept private, in context with place and time, and those for who we had intended to hear. |
| 21:27.43 | *** part/#utah ekimatuan (n=ekimatua@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 21:27.58 | shadowwire | Nice Confusious |
| 21:28.30 | sontek | shadowwire: I don't like PHP's syntax, it lacks namespaces, or a standard naming scheme between class libraries |
| 21:28.44 | *** join/#utah TimRiker (n=timr@psnet.cc) |
| 21:28.44 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 21:28.56 | shadowwire | I see. |
| 21:29.08 | sontek | shadowwire: but no one can choose for you, test them both out =) |
| 21:29.11 | shadowwire | So I should learn Python over PHP? |
| 21:29.23 | sontek | shadowwire: I think it would be more beneficial to you |
| 21:29.42 | sontek | shadowwire: but you could talk to #utahpython and #uphpu and see what they have to say |
| 21:29.44 | shadowwire | klys says I should learn C and forget the rest. |
| 21:30.23 | Supaplex | compilers are over rated. use assembly! ;) haha. jk. |
| 21:30.30 | shadowwire | nice... |
| 21:30.48 | Supaplex | they're all good actually. get a taste of a few, decide yourself. |
| 21:30.52 | sontek | ~compile Supaplex |
| 21:30.53 | ibot | ACTION runs gcc -o Supaplex.o on Supaplex |
| 21:30.55 | jsmith | Supaplex: Compilers are the best way of learning assembly! |
| 21:31.20 | Supaplex | e'yeaw |
| 21:31.26 | shadowwire | I've used Q-Basic, however I can only write a simple program. |
| 21:31.45 | sontek | PHP has an easier learning curve |
| 21:32.05 | shadowwire | Easier than Python? |
| 21:32.38 | Tene | I've never seen the value of "easy to start with" as a metric for long-term suitability of a programming language. |
| 21:32.46 | Supaplex | php seems more free form, while phthon has stiffer edges (but can run faster) |
| 21:33.16 | Tene | If I'll be using a programming language for 5, 10, or more years, the difference between "I have my first app done in 4 days" versus "I have my first app done in 5 days" is pretty negligible. |
| 21:33.27 | shadowwire | Is C harder to learn than Python or PHP? |
| 21:33.29 | Supaplex | that's my terse in so many words description. spend a few minutes seeing what's jotted down on wikipedia about them. |
| 21:33.57 | levi | shadowwire: Yes, and it's harder to write programs that don't crash in. |
| 21:34.01 | shadowwire | Good Idia |
| 21:34.14 | sontek | shadowwire: what are you planning on developing? |
| 21:34.23 | sontek | shadowwire: that will help you choose your langauge too |
| 21:34.50 | sontek | shadowwire: If you want to make web and client apps, python is nice because it has some great web frameworks and gtk bindings |
| 21:35.13 | Tene | Choosing a programming language base don "I don't have to put much work into learning enough to get started" seems kind of like "buying the cheapest possible toolset" |
| 21:35.26 | levi | Anyone who wants to be a serious programmer should learn C well, and should thereafter hate it and eschew it when possible. |
| 21:35.29 | jsmith | Tene: The nice thing about cheap tools is that they're easily replaced ;-) |
| 21:35.43 | Tene | jsmith: easily replaced and *should* be replaced when appropriate. |
| 21:35.54 | jsmith | Tene: We think alike ;-) |
| 21:36.03 | sontek | Tene: calm down boy, I was just telling him about the languages, if you didn't notice, I already mentioned that I don't like PHP |
| 21:36.04 | shadowwire | I want to write a program that lets multiple people draw on the same thing at the same time. |
| 21:36.21 | Supaplex | sounds like netmeeting |
| 21:36.34 | Tene | sontek: if I'm calm, how can I offend people? ;) |
| 21:36.36 | levi | shadowwire: I can do that without a program! :) |
| 21:36.50 | sontek | Tene: but for people who aren't looking to spend their lives coding and are just looking to hack together a hobby program, an easy learning curve is nice |
| 21:36.54 | shadowwire | ? |
| 21:37.15 | levi | QBFreak: Indeed. |
| 21:37.22 | shadowwire | Whiteboard? |
| 21:37.40 | QBFreak | yeah, a big white board that you use dry-erase markers on |
| 21:37.45 | levi | sontek: For those people, a language that enforces sanity is not just nice, it's practically required. |
| 21:38.19 | shadowwire | Allow me to be more specific. |
| 21:38.20 | levi | shadowwire: A whiteboard is a thing that lets multiple people draw on it a the same time. |
| 21:38.32 | jsmith | ~whiteboard |
| 21:38.33 | levi | s/it a the/it at the/ |
| 21:38.44 | shadowwire | I want a network program like that where one person is the admin |
| 21:39.11 | shadowwire | also add direrent objects. |
| 21:39.20 | QBFreak | *tapes |
| 21:40.13 | levi | sontek: People who want to learn just enough to get their hobby project done should probably be using Python. |
| 21:40.19 | shadowwire | ok |
| 21:41.05 | Tene | levi: how are the gui APIs for python? |
| 21:41.07 | Supaplex | http://freshmeat.net/projects/drawboard/ |
| 21:41.32 | sontek | levi: I think anyone doing anything, should use python over php, but php is a much easier language to grasp from a beginners standpoint |
| 21:42.00 | sontek | Tene: the gtk bindings are great |
| 21:42.05 | Tene | PHP is great for what it originally was made for, adding a bit of interactivity to an otherwise static website. |
| 21:42.05 | levi | sontek: I don't think that's necessarily true, and will become increasingly less true as PHP continues to 'grow up'. |
| 21:42.24 | Tene | That's where it's best. |
| 21:42.40 | Tene | As project size increases, suitability decreases, it seems, in my experience. |
| 21:42.46 | Supaplex | I don't see php, perl or python going away anytime soon |
| 21:43.15 | levi | My first home page was written with php, which was basically only used to make a site menu on the side of each page. |
| 21:43.35 | levi | It was a pretty good fit for that particular use. |
| 21:44.03 | Tene | I don't know of anything better for that niche. |
| 21:45.04 | levi | I don't think many people actually make web sites like that anymore, though. |
| 21:45.20 | shadowwire | I also want to make a simple database |
| 21:45.23 | levi | They tend to use some pre-packaged CMS. |
| 21:46.56 | shadowwire | I want to make a database with my own interface. |
| 21:47.20 | shadowwire | Eventualy I would like to put it on the web. |
| 21:47.26 | klys | wzup |
| 21:47.30 | shadowwire | Hey. |
| 21:47.46 | shadowwire | Klys: PHP or Python? |
| 21:47.51 | klys | python for me |
| 21:48.04 | klys | I've done cgi and pygtk so far. |
| 21:48.16 | shadowwire | you lost me. |
| 21:48.32 | klys | and I've done checkboxes both ways. |
| 21:49.30 | klys | sure, perl is cool, and php5 does DOM sort of, though php is a mess and perl is for more bash-like stuff |
| 21:49.40 | klys | imo. |
| 21:49.50 | shadowwire | ok, so would you advise me to learn Python before trying to learn a different Programing language? |
| 21:50.08 | klys | well, c++ first then maybe asm or python is always my advice |
| 21:50.12 | shadowwire | Or is there something else you would suggest. |
| 21:50.24 | shadowwire | c |
| 21:50.24 | shadowwire | = |
| 21:50.25 | klys | hmm, c++ or... |
| 21:50.27 | brasto | -brac |
| 21:50.30 | shadowwire | ops |
| 21:50.48 | klys | yeah yeah pascal |
| 21:50.49 | shadowwire | So, c++ |
| 21:50.55 | klys | yeah |
| 21:50.58 | shadowwire | Pascal?!? |
| 21:51.01 | Kemotaha | C is the best one to start with, They all copied it |
| 21:51.01 | klys | j/k |
| 21:51.12 | Supaplex | pascal is so 1990 |
| 21:51.13 | Kemotaha | well the ones that came after it :) |
| 21:51.38 | klys | do you have c++ builder for win32? or mingw developer studio? |
| 21:51.48 | synic | heh, I walked in on the classic language conversation. |
| 21:51.54 | synic | sontek: how come you aren't pushing C#? |
| 21:52.04 | Supaplex | it's too pointy |
| 21:52.10 | synic | oh, right |
| 21:52.41 | Supaplex | too many languages, to little time for them all |
| 21:53.02 | brasto | ~jk |
| 21:53.03 | ibot | rumour has it, jk is short for Just Kidding. Some people think kk is short for Just Kidding, but nobody knows where they got that from... |
| 21:53.34 | Supaplex | I thought kk was short for "ok ok" |
| 21:53.42 | klys | doing python with gtk you miss out on your main(), and with cgi you can't do much outside of html anyway so it's probably not the best for coding sockets |
| 21:53.54 | brasto | Supaplex: you're right... |
| 21:53.59 | synic | klys: miss out on your main() ? |
| 21:54.02 | brasto | ~forget jk |
| 21:54.02 | ibot | brasto: i forgot jk |
| 21:54.20 | brasto | ~jk is short for Just Kidding. |
| 21:54.21 | ibot | okay, brasto |
| 21:54.26 | brasto | there... |
| 21:54.40 | klys | languages close to C include smalltalk and modula-3, and many others which I can't name. pascal just came to mind because of the borland IDE which has an excellent help system. |
| 21:55.29 | shadowwire | So, Who wants to teach me C++ |
| 21:55.31 | klys | there is a program called gcj which maybe comes with mingw or cygwin which I won't describe here. |
| 21:55.34 | klys | ok |
| 21:55.40 | bucky | RMS has a halo http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2004/10/80957_comment.php |
| 21:55.43 | brac | [Richard Stallman: GNU/Linux and a free society : Melbourne Indymedia] |
| 21:55.46 | synic | klys: what do you mean "miss out on your main()"? |
| 21:55.46 | klys | also all the nice folks in ##c++ |
| 21:55.58 | klys | pygtk? ever code in it? |
| 21:56.13 | synic | yes I have. |
| 21:56.20 | klys | well you know more than I do then |
| 21:56.24 | synic | oh. |
| 21:56.45 | klys | I just know how to change the theme. |
| 21:57.03 | synic | *shrug*, I'm a pygtk fan... I'd recommend it. |
| 21:57.04 | shadowwire | A buddy of mine wants to teach me php and says it would be easy to learn. |
| 21:57.19 | klys | so anyway, get mingw developer studio, it's free and runs on windows. or go with scripting |
| 21:57.32 | bucky | ok Tene here's Richard meditating with a flute and an butterfly... this looks religious to me |
| 21:57.37 | synic | shadowwire: learn whatever. Just don't learn only one. |
| 21:57.43 | bucky | http://www.namurlug.org/archives/gnu/rms.jpg |
| 21:57.49 | shadowwire | I think my biggest motivation to learn php is that i know someone who can teach me. |
| 21:57.54 | Tene | shadowwire: it really depends on the project you want to make. If you want to do web stuff, PHP is a decent choice. |
| 21:58.08 | shadowwire | synic: sounds like good advice. |
| 21:58.11 | bucky | you can't go wrong with php |
| 21:58.36 | shadowwire | Thank you all for your opinions and advice. |
| 21:58.37 | klys | you could get complained about in places like this though |
| 21:58.40 | Tene | bucky: that religious interpretation comes from you, there's nothing particularly religious about that image. |
| 21:58.49 | bucky | hmm... |
| 21:59.46 | bucky | yeah.. he just might be worshiping his mainframe |
| 21:59.48 | klys | learning breadth is difficult when it comes to coding, probably a lot like learning qwerty and dvorak at the same time. |
| 22:00.08 | klys | shadowwire: read some articles from the front page at www.gnu.org |
| 22:00.29 | klys | gnu.org will tell you what RMS stands for and what he's about. |
| 22:00.50 | klys | also a lot of news articles have opinion blogs about RMS> |
| 22:01.10 | shadowwire | Recursive acronym?!? |
| 22:01.35 | klys | you mean GNU? GNU's Not Unix. right. recursive acronym. |
| 22:01.48 | shadowwire | yea. |
| 22:02.20 | klys | in c++ you can make recursive functions too. |
| 22:04.08 | klys | an example of a working c++ project which uses opengl and runs in win32 or X11 is http://irrlicht.sf.net |
| 22:04.17 | Tene | shadowwire: bucky claims that meditation is inherently religous. |
| 22:04.44 | Supaplex | you could argue retrospection is meditation |
| 22:04.55 | sinuhe | Tene: what is "religious"? |
| 22:05.01 | shadowwire | I would probably disagree. |
| 22:05.04 | klys | a guy from somewhere in Asia I know claims JS meditated and thus recieved an experience he described as the first vision. |
| 22:05.23 | shadowwire | I would argue with that too. |
| 22:05.30 | Tene | sinuhe: he said that it was weird that an atheist would meditate. |
| 22:05.56 | klys | http://www.larrycarlson.com/medijate/index.htm |
| 22:05.57 | brac | [~MEDIJATE~ ORGANIC GREEN SPIRIT DIGITAL BY LARRY CARLSON |
| 22:05.58 | brac | ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________] |
| 22:06.01 | shadowwire | I dont find that weird. |
| 22:06.02 | klys | yikes |
| 22:06.21 | Supaplex | down boy down! |
| 22:06.28 | bucky | http://dev.null.org/scrapbook/2007/0326_stallman.jpg |
| 22:07.14 | shadowwire | now thats weird! |
| 22:07.19 | sinuhe | Is that a GNU baret? |
| 22:07.47 | klys | makes him look like the cover for a book on marx or russia |
| 22:08.01 | shadowwire | yea. |
| 22:08.02 | sinuhe | klys: I think that was the point of the image. |
| 22:10.27 | bucky | i like it |
| 22:10.41 | levi | klys: I think it's supposed to make him look like Che Guevara. |
| 22:10.46 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@fugalh.nmsu.edu) |
| 22:10.46 | klys | cool |
| 22:10.47 | brac | Probably carcassone and cities and knights. I brought down our DID. well, turns out there's so many results I wanted it, just as, that's where I am on the DBA users group |
| 22:11.06 | levi | klys: Who was, in fact, a marxist. |
| 22:11.15 | Supaplex | -chat usb |
| 22:11.15 | brac | usb went |
| 22:12.01 | levi | Che killed a lot more people than RMS, though. I'm not sure why RMS would want to be associated with him. |
| 22:12.05 | klys | so has anyone heard political statements of assent to anything by RMS? I would picture him maybe a libertarian. |
| 22:12.10 | fozzmoo | RMS is very left-leaning, but I don't think he's a full on socialist. |
| 22:12.55 | klys | fozzmoo: www.politopia.com |
| 22:13.19 | fozzmoo | Want me to be all distracted-like? |
| 22:13.28 | klys | well, ffr |
| 22:13.58 | klys | I know, you're busy medijating |
| 22:14.24 | *** join/#utah tuple (i=fuglv@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 22:14.24 | ibot | tickles tuple with a rose bush |
| 22:14.28 | tuple | elg: yo |
| 22:14.35 | elg | identity theft! |
| 22:14.47 | tuple | could you look up my address? |
| 22:14.52 | elg | you're coming from falcon |
| 22:14.53 | tuple | in the join on this channel |
| 22:15.06 | elg | tuple (i=fuglv@falcon.fugal.net) has joined #utah |
| 22:15.09 | Tene | fuglv@falcon.fugal.net |
| 22:15.14 | tuple | no, the one for vontrapp |
| 22:15.21 | tuple | or... |
| 22:15.26 | elg | no such nick/channel |
| 22:15.28 | tuple | shoot, vontrapp isn't on |
| 22:15.33 | elg | the lamer |
| 22:15.34 | tuple | oh well |
| 22:15.50 | bucky | i have a funnier photo than that http://blog.wired.com/business/2007/10/microsoft-wants.html |
| 22:16.01 | elg | so why does my wife keep logging in and out now after upgrading to ubuntu 7.10? |
| 22:16.10 | elg | she's not really. gaim's doing some weird dance |
| 22:16.20 | vontrapp | elg: two instances? |
| 22:16.26 | vontrapp | gaim and pidgin fighting? |
| 22:16.28 | elg | every couple of minutes |
| 22:16.32 | jsmith | elg: Fast user switching? |
| 22:16.34 | elg | well, pidgin now |
| 22:16.35 | fozzmoo | klys: I'm a northwesterner. |
| 22:16.38 | elg | no, the computer is completely dormant |
| 22:17.10 | vontrapp | elg: when i had two instances of gaim a couple days ago, they fought eachother and made me log off/on many times over |
| 22:17.11 | elg | well, obviously not, but there's nobody at it and the screen is off |
| 22:17.14 | klys | fozmoo: cool. I came out close to juliani just west of mitt. |
| 22:17.26 | vontrapp | but pidgin has coll shm detection and doesn't let multiple instances run |
| 22:17.27 | elg | this isn't as bad as the occasional "fozzmoo spasm" |
| 22:17.50 | fozzmoo | ou would feel most at home in the Northwest region. You advocate a large degree of economic and personal freedom. Your neighbors include folks like Ayn Rand, Jesse Ventura, Milton Friedman, and Drew Carey, and may refer to themselves as "classical liberals," "libertarians," "market liberals," "old whigs," "objectivists," "propertarians," "agorists," or "anarcho-capitalist." |
| 22:17.56 | fozzmoo | that's what it said to me. |
| 22:18.06 | elg | vontrapp: it's gaim |
| 22:18.15 | elg | that's what the process says in pstree anyway. no pidgin running |
| 22:18.17 | klys | yeah, sounds like something it would say. |
| 22:18.26 | vontrapp | elg: i would make sure only one is running, then |
| 22:18.32 | fozzmoo | That's cool about Ayn Rand. I attribute a lot of my beliefs to her writings. |
| 22:18.47 | elg | pgrep gaim | wc -l => 1 |
| 22:18.49 | klys | fozmoo: I was in there for as a centrist. |
| 22:19.01 | vontrapp | pgrep, eh? |
| 22:19.11 | elg | pgrep is teh bomb |
| 22:19.17 | elg | pgrep -l is useful too |
| 22:19.27 | elg | pgrep: for when you want killall without the kill |
| 22:19.34 | vontrapp | it wouldn't be one gaim and one pidgin, would it? |
| 22:19.40 | elg | no pidgin |
| 22:19.54 | elg | pgrep pidgin; echo $? => 1 |
| 22:20.30 | klys | shadowwire: is time up? |
| 22:21.46 | elg | klys: you hereby expire |
| 22:22.05 | klys | glad to see your foot in the door |
| 22:22.39 | shadowwire | Time? time is so sereal. it keeps sliping.. into the future. a valuble thing watch it fly by as the pendulum swings. |
| 22:23.19 | klys | yes, time flies like ham, I mean bacon. wait: time flies like an arrow. fruit flies like a banana. |
| 22:23.46 | shadowwire | Is time a construct, or simply our self imposed way of viewing existance? |
| 22:23.58 | elg | no my foot transcends time. no door can stop it |
| 22:24.10 | shadowwire | cool foot. |
| 22:24.18 | elg | shadowwire: that's what you said next week |
| 22:24.33 | klys | well, think of the moment. did our conception pof it originate when sleeping or are we less of an imposter to it than it would seem |
| 22:24.52 | klys | deep thoughts |
| 22:25.38 | klys | so, how's your todo list? |
| 22:25.48 | klys | *wishlist |
| 22:27.17 | shadowwire | Mine? |
| 22:27.22 | klys | yes you |
| 22:27.39 | brac | [timecube.net] |
| 22:27.55 | Tene | erm |
| 22:27.58 | Tene | http://timecube.com/ |
| 22:28.00 | brac | [Time Cube] |
| 22:28.15 | vontrapp | time is serial |
| 22:28.37 | vontrapp | no! not the time cubeE!!! |
| 22:28.57 | klys | spammer? |
| 22:29.11 | klys | you find mejitate to be a mere distraction |
| 22:29.26 | vontrapp | ~pummel klys |
| 22:29.26 | ibot | ACTION beats klys into oblivion |
| 22:29.58 | klys | what you say |
| 22:30.09 | vontrapp | only bots come back from oblivion... |
| 22:30.17 | vontrapp | => klys is a bot |
| 22:30.27 | shadowwire | Wow. and you think you know someone. |
| 22:30.28 | klys | bot == spammer, dictionary.com |
| 22:30.39 | klys | and vontrapp isn't an english speaker |
| 22:30.44 | klys | he must concede. |
| 22:31.12 | shadowwire | I dont hear otherwise. |
| 22:31.13 | vontrapp | bot == ibot - i |
| 22:31.24 | shadowwire | ok |
| 22:32.14 | klys | nobody seems to talk to fungus, he quits about now every day. |
| 22:32.35 | vontrapp | one of these days he'll quit to oblivion and never return |
| 22:32.45 | vontrapp | and we'll all feel bad that we didn |
| 22:33.05 | vontrapp | 't put in a kind word which would have averted the tragedy |
| 22:33.32 | vontrapp | "Goodbye cruel oblivion" |
| 22:43.18 | klys | synic: pygtk gab? |
| 22:44.04 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@216.31.27.110) |
| 22:44.06 | brac | One way to avoid all that, which is why it keeps ringing on phone with her, and she couldn't behave herself |
| 22:44.51 | nick125 | I guess I really need to fix DansGuardian before I put it into production.. |
| 22:46.31 | *** join/#utah Lakshmi (n=chatzill@75-25-129-78.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 22:46.36 | elg | the plot thickens |
| 22:46.53 | elg | apparently she's been typing to me and nothing happened. maybe she signed on/off whenever she tried to send something |
| 22:47.01 | elg | though that's not what she sees |
| 22:47.16 | elg | gaim and pidgin both are installed, maybe that's all |
| 22:47.29 | elg | so I'll uninstall gaim and start pidgin and see if that makes a difference |
| 22:47.57 | elg | of course, it will take 8 hours to download 5 packages |
| 22:48.10 | synic | klys: what? |
| 22:48.32 | klys | synic: is pygtk usually event-driven? |
| 22:48.41 | synic | yeah |
| 22:49.26 | klys | synic: and gtk.main() prevents it from acting otherwise? |
| 22:50.14 | synic | it's not linear, if that's what you're getting at... but I don't know of a gui toolkit that works any differently |
| 22:50.32 | nick125 | I haven't heard of a poll-based GUI toolkit. |
| 22:50.46 | klys | synic: we were in the context of programming languages. it missed the idea I think |
| 22:51.32 | synic | I don't think I understand you |
| 22:51.45 | klys | pygtk doesn't have access to it's own main loop. a language you'd want to learn probably would. |
| 22:52.15 | nick125 | gtk.main() is pygtk's main loop that processes events. |
| 22:52.27 | synic | klys: I think you're confused. |
| 22:52.37 | klys | right, so you call it and there isn't a meantime alternative afaik. |
| 22:53.03 | nick125 | There's a way to subclass GTK's mainloop, I believe. |
| 22:53.19 | nick125 | (Or there is some way to extend it, but, I'm not exactly sure why you'd want to) |
| 22:53.25 | synic | klys: why would you want access to the main loop? You can queue events and whatnot |
| 22:53.50 | klys | events are not handles in the same stack and signal / interrupt context as a main(). |
| 22:54.01 | klys | s/handles/handled/ |
| 22:54.07 | nick125 | If you want to have an event called every X seconds for something, just add it as a Gobject timer (I believe) |
| 22:54.54 | klys | right, you don't get the opportunity to program in, say, every time the timer goes of -or- the keyboard gets a ctrl -or- we do an onmouseover |
| 22:55.14 | synic | yes you do |
| 22:55.16 | nick125 | You can add handlers to the events.. |
| 22:55.28 | klys | really, you're confusing me. |
| 22:55.39 | synic | and why do you think that pygtk is any different than gtk+, gtkmm, QT, Swing, etc? |
| 22:55.45 | klys | what I meant to say is python is called in an interrupt signal |
| 22:56.03 | klys | and so the possibility exists of cancelling access to the signal |
| 22:56.44 | klys | s/sceduler/scheduler/ |
| 22:57.36 | klys | so maybe, this is the sort of thing script-only programmers wouldn't get |
| 23:03.07 | *** join/#utah jsimpson (n=jsimpson@adsl-75-14-203-206.dsl.renocs.sbcglobal.net) |
| 23:07.45 | *** part/#utah brasto (n=brasto@out.lnxi.com) |
| 23:08.34 | synic | klys: I get stuff done with my script only programming. I'm happy. |
| 23:08.35 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@216.31.27.110) |
| 23:08.38 | brac | It's not worth listening to his class |
| 23:16.28 | klys | good night supaplex! |
| 23:16.53 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@216.31.27.110) |
| 23:16.54 | brac | I hate daylight savings!! |
| 23:17.28 | Supaplex | poor bot+dst |
| 23:27.07 | shadowwire | http://www.seeitornot.faketrix.com/crash-photos-19.htm |
| 23:27.08 | brac | [Car crash pics, cop chase accidents, driving bloopers] |
