IRC log for #utah on 20071010

00:11.13*** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@216.31.27.110)
00:12.08elgmaquis: did you read any of those books?
00:12.50elgIf the bread is too dense there's two things i'd try: knead more and/or more water
00:13.19maquiselg: i haven't read much in the way of books...  
00:13.24Supaplexhumm.. I guess I should hit the UTAUG before I'm late. utaug.org
00:13.36maquisi will try those hints... that might get me the rest of the way
00:14.26elglaurel's kitchen bread book is the best resource for whole wheat bread baking
00:16.37*** join/#utah tiwula (n=lane@208.64.90.18.static.utahbroadband.com)
00:20.54harleypighttp://youtube.com/watch?v=3O7GbhnBDcI SFW
00:39.36harleypighttp://youtube.com/watch?v=dfx8Nc6VKnI SFW
00:39.44harleypigFor you Rocky Horror/Star Trek fans
00:42.16maquiselg: i'll check into that
00:46.31*** join/#utah wps (n=wps@208.53.47.251)
00:50.00harleypighttp://youtube.com/watch?v=luVjkTEIoJc
00:50.17harleypigStar Trek meets Monty Python
01:36.38*** join/#utah bmidgley (n=bmidgley@c-24-2-92-215.hsd1.ut.comcast.net)
01:39.34*** join/#utah jsmith (n=jsmith@library.xwi.xmission.com)
02:10.51*** part/#utah harleypig (n=harleypi@66.236.68.4.ptr.us.xo.net)
02:20.32klys_ibot, so like yeah is <reply> I love you yeah yeah yeah
02:20.32ibotklys_: I think you lost me on that one
02:32.32sontekibot: dance
02:32.32ibotSir! Too much booty in the pants, sir!
03:02.11klys_so a guy approaches a police car with a kettle of coffee.  you want some coffee?  thanks; get you some ginger when you're done.  whoa you're not a cop.  I have your donut.  I'll find the ginger first if you ale.  then you're an englishman; I really was an officer.  can I see your badge?  "police officer, chicago police."  you're just going to leave it at that?  unless you're aware of something.  the man pours him a glass: he tests it with a thermometer.  good day!
03:31.07leviklys_: WTF?
03:31.20klys_oh, did you lose part of it
03:32.16leviNo, it just made no sense.
03:32.20klys_I mean the guy is staggering around on the street and the cop can't smell his breath
03:36.05*** join/#utah graphyx (n=mike@c-98-202-9-3.hsd1.ut.comcast.net)
03:36.09graphyxanyone around?
03:36.19tensai~dunk graphyx
03:36.19ibotACTION dunks graphyx in a giant fondue pot
03:36.32graphyxhey tensai
03:36.40graphyxon ubuntu
03:36.50graphyx<PROTECTED>
03:37.02tensaiprobably moved it to a trash folder somewhere.
03:37.21graphyxhow do I clean that out?
03:37.30tensaignome or kde?
03:37.43graphyxgnome
03:37.48graphyxnot everything starts with a k
03:38.22tensaigraphyx: rm -r ~/.Trash
03:38.27graphyxok
03:38.39tensaiI dunno about doing it from the interface. I don't use gnome.
03:38.53graphyxthat is fine
03:39.01graphyxI am just fine with command line
03:39.14graphyxnick125: don't you have a cuecat just lying around somewhere?
03:39.23graphyxthat did the trick.
03:39.24nick125graphyx: Sadly, no.
03:39.31graphyxwhere are you ?
03:39.38graphyxI have one around here I think
03:39.45graphyxonly had it 6 years without a use.
03:39.47nick125graphyx: Kinda far away...
03:40.05graphyxoutside of utah?
03:40.16nick125Albuquerque, NM.
03:40.19graphyxah
03:40.23graphyxthat would be a bit away
03:40.25graphyxask elg
03:40.35tensaielg is in las cruces, I think
03:40.38graphyxits working tensai thanks.
03:40.44nick125elg is in las cruces, which is about 300 miles from here.
03:40.58graphyxthat would only take you 10 hours
03:41.05graphyxwho can say road trip!
03:41.26nick125It's about 3-4 hours down there.
03:41.43nick125I was done there once...it took about 3 hours each way.
03:43.05tensaiwho says elg even has one? he was probably too cheap to get one.
03:43.11tensaieven though they were free...
03:44.29tensaibut the cuecat is pretty retarded. it doesn't return proper data. it's "encrypted".
03:44.55graphyxummm... you don't know the reverse engineering story?
03:45.08tensaiyes, I remember the story
03:45.13graphyxguy claims he got drunk and in the morning the code was there.. /[
03:45.17nick125hahahaah
03:45.28tensainever heard that version
03:45.41nick125I ordered a Symbol LS1902C barcode scanner.
03:46.09nick125Which I heard is supposed to send unencrypted data over serial.
03:46.40graphyxwhy do you care about encryptied/unencrypted?
03:46.43tensaithat's how most of them work, at least in my experience
03:46.58nick125The scanner itself was $0.99, but the shipping was $16.
03:47.07tensaigraphyx: generally they return digits just as if the keyboard had
03:47.08fozzmooThe "encryption" was really lame, tho
03:47.15nick125tensai: That's for the USB and the PS2 ones.
03:47.19graphyxahh,
03:47.21graphyxok
03:47.32tensainick125: oh, I glossed over the "serial"
03:47.34fozzmooYeah. They are usually "wedged" between the keyboard and the PC.
03:47.35graphyxnick125: should have checked ebay
03:47.38graphyxor was that ebay?
03:47.41nick125graphyx: That's where I got it.
03:48.03fozzmooFor the serial devices, you need to have software that redirects serial data, transforms it, and drops it into a keyboard buffer.
03:48.14fozzmooI worked on a barcode scanning software for Unix in the early 90s.
03:48.23nick125fozzmoo: Not even that. I'm planning on writing a program that will just pull it from serial.
03:48.33tensaifozzmoo: what was fun about the cuecat saga is how the creator complained and moaned about people reverse engineering it
03:48.43fozzmooSure. I'm just explaining how it's traditionally done.
03:49.04nick125I figured it would be easier with it over serial than trying to figure out what input was from the user and what was from the scanner.
03:49.40fozzmooAlright. It's powernap time for me.
03:49.47fozzmooTTY'all later - maybe in an hour.
03:51.20*** part/#utah graphyx (n=mike@c-98-202-9-3.hsd1.ut.comcast.net)
04:16.42maquisrandom netstat question.  when i do netstat -s to get statistics, are those over a specific period of time, or is it just over all of time since last reboot?
04:18.05levimaquis: I imagine it's since reboot.
04:21.54maquislevi: so, if i have 2 boxes... and i want them to be comparable, i need to do something along the lines of "netstat -s; sleep 10; netstat -s"
04:21.57maquis?
04:22.51maquisthat makes things more difficult
04:24.12leviYou want to compare the net stats of the two?
04:31.03maquisyeah
04:31.22maquisi want to determine if one of them is having significantly more problems than the other
04:31.36maquisbut... i don't know how long each has been upu
04:31.38maquiser
04:31.38maquisup
04:31.48leviuptime will tell you that.
04:32.05maquiswell
04:32.05maquisyeah
04:32.17maquisbut... it won't tell me which one has had more problems in the past hour
04:32.20maquisor half hour
04:32.32maquismachine stopped working correctly about 5 days ago
04:32.37maquisbut all the other machines are working fine
04:32.48maquisand it has no good reason to be troublesome
04:32.50leviYeah, you'd have to get a baseline reading for both, then get another reading from both after a fixed period of time.
04:53.51maquisurgh.. ok
04:54.10maquis~lart emcnabb
04:54.10ibotpours gasoline all over emcnabb, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze
04:54.29leviI'm not sure why that's so awful, but I'm sorry there's not an easier way. :)
04:54.44maquislevi: np... i'm just taking it out on emcnabb
04:54.45maquis:)
04:54.58maquisactually, i just decided that i don't care enough to actually do it
04:55.20maquisi'm just sending the info i gathered...
05:03.43vontrappwhat assignment is thaT?
05:03.57leviYet another version of the bowling scores program.
05:04.12maquisbowling scores?
05:04.15leviEveryone's so sick of it, only 2 people in the class actually had it done on time.
05:04.18vontrappeck, bowling score
05:04.19vontrapps
05:04.46maquismy bowling scores were funny last time i played...
05:04.52vontrappisn't bowling scoring pretty straightforward?
05:05.11leviFirst, we had to write a program to score a list of bowling rolls in procedural style, object oriented style, blackboard style, and pipes & filters style.
05:05.11vontrappi think 142 is using that for one of their projects now
05:05.26vontrapppipes and filters?
05:05.28vontrappblackboard?
05:05.44leviThen, we had to modify each of those programs to handle multiple players.
05:05.46maquis0 0 X 0/ 0 X 0
05:05.48maquisX
05:05.52maquisand then i went on to normal scores
05:06.09leviThen, we had to modify the single player version to be fault-tolerant.
05:06.25maquis(this was while playing with my teammates from work... they were commenting that i was the only person they knew who bowled in binary)
05:06.29levipipes and filters is like unix command line stuff.
05:06.35leviAnd blackboard is just stupid.
05:06.58vontrappso like using the program is pipes and filters style?
05:07.14vontrappthrow ball | pins | grep fallen over?
05:07.15leviWe had to have multiple processes that communicate via pipes.
05:07.42leviFor mine, it was cat rolls | split into frames | sum score
05:08.02leviIt gets kind of tricky when you have to do multiple players, though. :P
05:08.08vontrappoo, skuse me, pins < bowling.ball | grep dead pins | wc -l
05:08.09leviAlso when you have to deal with errors.
05:08.42leviThe part that's not straightforward is calculating the bonuses for strikes and spares.
05:09.00vontrappthat's state machine territory, there
05:09.27leviIn a way it's straightforward, and I figured out several different rather elegant ways to do it, but they all broke horribly in the face of the changes I had to make.
05:09.33leviNo, not a state machine.
05:09.58leviIf you get a strike, you just add the 10 to the next two rolls.
05:10.08leviIf you get a spare, you add the 10 to the next single roll.
05:10.18herlo~seen levi
05:10.44ibotlevi is currently on #utah (7d 23h 46m 14s). Has said a total of 492 messages. Is idling for 36s, last said: 'If you get a spare, you add the 10 to the next single roll.'.
05:10.45vontrappis that how it works?
05:10.45leviThat's exactly how it works.
05:10.49vontrappstill a state machine
05:11.02vontrappyou have states strike, spare, normal
05:11.18vontrappnormal[strike] -> strike
05:11.26vontrappnormal[spare] -> spare
05:11.41vontrappstrike[normal] -> spare
05:11.47vontrappspare[normal] -> normal
05:12.04vontrappspare[strike] -> strike, strike[strike] -> strike
05:12.06vontrappso on
05:12.38vontrappnot the easiest thing to graph state machines on irc :/
05:12.42leviCode it up, see if it works. :P
05:13.35leviYou don't actually know the score of the first frame until you've rolled the ball 3 times.
05:13.40vontrappi guess you would need a couple more states
05:13.54vontrappstrike2, strike_spare
05:13.55leviDoing it with a state machine is needlessly complex, if it even works.
05:14.36vontrappwell, i do see my states and transitions have multiplied like rabbits
05:15.50leviI have two rather elegant ways of doing it.  First is a two-roll lookahead buffer.  That's definitely the cleanest.
05:16.30vontrappwell, sounds like too much fun for me
05:16.34vontrappwhat language?
05:16.58leviThe second way is an interesting structure that is an array of frames, each of which contains an array of rolls, which rolls are also members of a linked list.
05:17.56leviSo, to score a frame, you sum the members of its rolls array, and if it is a strike you follow the list by two rolls and add those.
05:18.05leviIf it's a spare, you just get the next roll.
05:18.15leviIf those aren't available, you don't get a score for the frame yet.
05:18.53leviAnyway, it's got incredibly tedious to keep modifying these programs.
05:19.06leviI did one in Scheme, one in Python, and two of them in C.
05:19.09*** join/#utah decriptor_ (n=sshaw@sshaw.fttp.xmission.com)
05:19.42leviBut we could use pretty much whatever languages we wanted, as long as we could submit something the prof could run.
05:25.48leviAnyway, I thoroughly hate this assignment, but I'm almost done.
05:35.21leviWow, I just cranked out ~200 lines of C code with no compiler errors.
05:36.29leviAnd it even runs correctly on my old test cases.
05:37.33leviGranted, a lot of it was cut+paste, because I'll be da***d if I'm going to put any more thought into this.
05:43.26leviHah, I'm not as awesome as I thought.  I was compiling the old, debugged versions. :P
05:50.42*** join/#utah vontrapp_ (n=von@c-67-164-192-43.hsd1.ut.comcast.net)
05:53.42*** join/#utah vontrapp (n=von@c-67-164-192-43.hsd1.ut.comcast.net)
06:03.28vontrappdoes deque.push_back not copy the pushed object?
06:12.16*** join/#utah Lakshmi (n=chatzill@66-240-25-49.isp.comcastbusiness.net)
06:12.54*** join/#utah Sargun (n=Sargun@atarack/staff/sargun)
06:15.14*** join/#utah joseph (n=joseph@c-67-182-211-211.hsd1.ut.comcast.net)
06:15.56josephHello fellow Utah peoples
06:26.32SargunWhat's a good website of TVs?
06:27.56vontrappa website made of tvs?
06:34.11Sarguner
06:34.17Sargunwith reviews of TVs
06:34.21Sargunvontrapp, and possibly.
07:03.21levi*sigh*
07:03.46leviAll of my programs work on correct input now, but only two work with bad input.
07:08.02leviWell, now three work.
07:12.01Sargunbetter input checking?
07:13.24leviI had to replace scanf with my own function in the other C program.
07:14.01SargunOuch.
07:14.13SargunWait, why?
07:14.30SargunI mean scanf is the general way to get input
07:14.44leviYeah, if your input is actually correct.
07:14.50SargunUnless you're writing a hack, then you use gets()
07:15.06leviActually, scanf is rarely used.
07:15.19leviUnless you're writing toy programs like this.
07:15.30leviPrecisely because it's not very robust.
07:16.45leviI was using scanf to pull a single integer at a time from a list of them on the stdin stream.  When it hit something that wasn't an integer, it ended up exhausting the entire stream rather than just until the next whitespace.
07:22.30leviOK, all versions of the program work now.
07:23.21Sargunneat.
07:23.28SargunWhat are the programs exactly?
07:26.18leviSeveral versions of a bowling score calculator.
07:28.51SargunAh.
07:31.09leviHmm, no, I found a test case that breaks some of them. :/
07:32.02SargunWhich class is this for?
07:32.09leviSoftware Engineering
07:32.39Sargunhm
07:32.45Sargunsurprising such a simple program
07:32.53Sargunin a higher level class
07:33.21leviIt's less simple than you'd think.
07:33.59leviAnd it's supposed to be somewhat simple, because we've had to repeat it a zillion times in different styles and changed to support different features.
07:35.17SargunOh
07:35.30SargunLike what are the complex parts of it?
07:36.30vontrappnot knowing the score for a strike for possibly 4 frames later
07:36.50leviNo, you know it at most 2 frames later.
07:37.02vontrappoh, so it doesn't compound
07:37.05Sargunframes are turns?
07:37.05leviSargun: Do you know how to score bowling games?
07:37.10leviI guess not.
07:37.12SargunNo.
07:37.13SargunHeh.
07:37.15SargunSorry.
07:37.47leviGo look it up, and write a program to read in a list of rolls and tell you the correct score.
07:40.17*** join/#utah fozzmoo (n=fozz@166-70-238-250.ip.xmission.com)
07:41.16vontrapplevi: wikipedia says it doubles the score of the next two throws
07:41.37levivontrapp: Wikipedia is wrong, then.
07:41.45vontrappwhich is the same thing really
07:41.54vontrappjust putting the extra points in a different place
07:42.29leviWell, I guess that's right.
07:43.47leviIn that case, you could keep track of the number of rolls that need to be doubled.
07:44.01Sargunlevi has no become a certified bowling expert
07:44.09Sargundo they have like referees in bowling?
07:44.12SargunI wouldn't think so
07:44.38leviThere's a little sensor that tells you if you foul, and otherwise the computers track everything.
07:44.52Sargundefine:foul
07:45.02leviStepping over the line into the lane.
07:45.22*** join/#utah fozzmoo (n=fozz@166-70-238-250.ip.xmission.com)
07:45.57Sargunfozzmoo, !
07:46.05fozzmoouh huh?
07:46.19fozzmooI'm pulling an all-nighter.
07:46.27Sargunwhy?
07:47.19fozzmooGot stuff to do.
07:47.59fozzmooWhat's your excuse? :)
07:48.03sontekfozzmoo: so what all do you guys do with the streaming?
07:48.13fozzmooRight now? nothing.
07:48.24SargunIts only 1 am
07:48.26sontekbah
07:48.29Sargunfozzmoo, computer related stuff?
07:48.36fozzmooSargun: Yep.
07:48.42fozzmooRight now, working on some video stuff.
07:48.55fozzmooLater, I'll be playing with GWT so I can demo it tomorrow/later today.
07:49.03Sargungoogle web ---?
07:49.06fozzmootoolkit
07:49.57fozzmooThen, once business hours are back in effect, I'll be installing a Dell Powervault LTO autochanger and configuring Bacula. :)
07:50.45fozzmoosontek: Why do you ask?
07:51.14SargunGWTK
07:51.21Sargunwhat is in the package?
07:52.06fozzmooWEll, one package has some Arctic Silver. :)
07:52.16fozzmooA couple 500G drives.
07:52.21fozzmooand a 22-inch LCD.
07:52.32fozzmooJust a few improvements here at home.
07:52.44Lakshmihey fozzmoo
07:52.53fozzmooLakshmi: Hey... schmi
07:53.01sontekfozzmoo: I wrote this video site for developers (tutorials on code, demo apps, etc) and I remembered you guys were doing streaming stuff
07:53.19fozzmooWe will be, I think.
07:53.21sontekfozzmoo: so I was going to see if I could stream through you instead of setting up a couple colo's
07:53.35fozzmooWe should talk.
07:53.36sontekbut I want to launch the site in a few weeks
07:53.44fozzmoookay.
07:54.11sontekI'd love to talk =)
07:55.21fozzmooYou're a talker, eh? :)
07:55.27fozzmooWho wants to take a peek at some video?
07:56.20sontekdo you guys plan on doing stuff like bitgravity.com ? Thats kind of what i'm looking for
07:56.31fozzmooNO idea. I'm not familiar with them.
07:57.26fozzmooSo, nobody's screaming for video to sample.
07:57.50fozzmoohttp://castro.iodynamics.com/~fozz/title1-xvid.avi
07:59.16sontekI think its weird that its opensourcetv.tv :P
07:59.21sontek2 tv's!
07:59.24fozzmooYeah. I didn't pick the domain.
07:59.34fozzmooYou like the video, tho?
08:01.12sontekyeah
08:01.37sontekwhat are using to put it together?
08:02.42fozzmooUlead MediaStudio Pro
08:03.04fozzmooI spent eight frickin dollars for that background footage tonight.
08:03.46fozzmooAnyone want to guess what it is?
08:04.49sontekstars?
08:05.05sontekI've been playing with diva for the videos i'm preparing for the launch
08:05.16sontekI can't find any good screen capture software though
08:05.45fozzmooHaven't heard of diva.
08:06.06sontekhttp://www.diva-project.org/
08:06.24fozzmooOh. Open source even.
08:06.38fozzmooI'm involved with the kdenlive and mlt projects.
08:06.55fozzmooBut... they're still not to the point where I can use them to be productive. :)
08:08.22fozzmooWhat was that software they were talking about on the PLUG list to capture (and stream) desktops....
08:08.23sontekDiva works for what I need it for, and its in mono =)
08:08.31fozzmooIstanbul?
08:08.54fozzmoohttp://live.gnome.org/Istanbul
08:09.17sontekahh, I've never heard of it, but ooks like what I want =)
08:09.22sonteklooks*
08:09.44Sargunfozzmoo, your a programmer?
08:09.57fozzmoomine a programmer.
08:10.11SargunAre you a programmer?
08:10.16Sargunheh
08:10.17fozzmooYes.
08:10.22fozzmooAmong other things.
08:10.31SargunI thought you were an admin of systems
08:10.38fozzmooI'm in both camps.
08:10.43fozzmooMakes me versatile.
08:11.05fozzmooMy title at KnowledgeBlue is Chief Architect/Director of Technology.
08:11.18fozzmooIt means I'm over IT and Development. :-/
08:11.44SargunAh.
08:12.15SargunHow large is KnowledgeBlue?
08:12.39fozzmooDepends on who you ask. :)
08:12.44leviFinally, I think these stupid programs are done.
08:12.50leviI so need to sleep. :(
08:12.54fozzmooI've heard 80 people.
08:13.09fozzmooAlso depends onif you count the Asia team.
08:13.24SargunYou need to your website's copywrong:
08:13.32Sargun"Copyright ? 2002-2006 KnowledgeBlue LLC. All Rights Reserved"
08:13.38fozzmooAKA The Indian Java Monkeys
08:13.39SargunI hope you still exist into 2007
08:13.41Sargunhaha
08:16.03fozzmoosontek: So... the "stars" are... and I'm kind of feeling weird about saying it...
08:16.19fozzmooSee, there's this new automatic car wash near my house.
08:16.37fozzmooWent through it and the triple-color foam conditioner made this awesome pattern on the windshield.
08:16.45fozzmooIt was all psychedlic and stuff.
08:16.53fozzmooMy kids love it.
08:17.02Sargunheh.
08:17.09fozzmooSo, tonight, I went over with the video camera, paid 8 bucks for the long cycle...
08:17.28fozzmooand shot the windshield with the triple-foam conditioner on it.
08:17.37fozzmoosontek thinks it looks like stars.
08:17.58SargunDo you have the capture?
08:18.09fozzmooThe raw video? Yeah.
08:18.22Sargunsend it?
08:18.24fozzmookinda big. :)
08:18.25Sargunoh
08:18.28Sargunxvid it
08:18.33fozzmooheh. okay.
08:18.34sontekhaha, thats creative
08:18.34Sargunthen push it onto the net
08:20.03Sargunfozzmoo, you guys use EV1?
08:20.10fozzmooEV1?
08:20.26fozzmooI don't know what that is.
08:20.44SargunEV1 servers
08:20.55Sarguntraining.openblue.info
08:21.20Sargun15:  ivhou-207-218-245-29.ev1servers.net (207.218.245.29) asymm 12  95.567ms
08:21.20Sargun16:  ivhou-207-218-223-105.ev1servers.net (207.218.223.105) asymm 11  97.116ms
08:21.20Sargun17:  knowledgeblue.com (207.44.134.49)                    asymm 12 113.395ms reached
08:21.21Sarguntada
08:21.28fozzmooOh. I know we have some servers in TX
08:21.52fozzmooMost are in UT
08:22.25Sargunoh
08:22.29Sargunwhat's hosted in UT
08:22.40Sargundo you have a big hosted services build out?
08:23.13fozzmooIt's getting there.
08:23.25fozzmooWe've got three blade chassis and a dozen or so other servers.
08:23.35fozzmooTwo cabinets.
08:24.28Sargunfozzmoo, Are those well saturated?
08:24.33SargunWhat do you have networking wise?
08:24.51fozzmooMan, you're full of questions.
08:25.22fozzmooI don't have all the answers. I've only been w/ the company for a month.
08:25.37Sargunoh.
08:25.38fozzmooNetworking... probably gigabit or 10/100
08:25.41SargunIts me
08:25.42fozzmoocopper.
08:25.43Sargun:-)
08:25.45SargunWell, I mean
08:25.51Sargunfrom your ISP I assume you drop to a
08:25.55Sarguner
08:25.57SargunISPs
08:26.06Sargundrop to a firewall or router
08:26.14Sargunwhich drops to your switches
08:26.16fozzmooRight. We've got a BSD box w/ pf
08:26.21Sargunwhich goes to your boxes
08:26.31fozzmooright now, it's all one big network.
08:26.33Sargunredundant BSD boxes?
08:26.34Sargunoh
08:26.35Sargunew.
08:26.44fozzmoobut the IT guys are in the process of changing that.
08:26.55fozzmooThey're building a new firewall.
08:27.07fozzmooat some point, we're going to have to make that redundant.
08:27.16Sargunhm.
08:27.19SargunOutsource it?
08:27.26fozzmooNo, we can handle it.
08:30.19fozzmoookay Sargun: http://castro.iodynamics.com/capture-xvid.avi
08:30.58fozzmooOH gee... I didn't compress the audio.
08:31.01fozzmooThat's why it's so big.
08:32.02fozzmooYou can listen to the Porcupine Tree I was listening to in the car wash. :)
08:33.49Sargunyou're iodynamics?
08:34.01Sargunthat female on your web page is odd
08:34.50fozzmooheh heh.
08:35.02fozzmooThere's been some discussion about that.
08:35.17fozzmooLike, maybe she's watching some Running Man type game.
08:35.24Sargunhahaha
08:35.24fozzmooand some guy's getting his legs pulled off his body.
08:35.28Sargunhaha
08:44.45fozzmooOkay. I've re-uploaded that capture file.
08:44.48fozzmooIt's MP3 audio now.
08:45.02fozzmootrimmed 20M off the file.
08:45.56Sargunnogo
08:46.41fozzmooOh. Geez.
08:46.48fozzmoohttp://castro.iodynamics.com/~fozz/capture-xvid.avi
08:49.44Sarguninteresting
08:49.59Sargunlooks like snow
08:50.07Sargunor something toxis
08:50.08Sargunwhoa
08:50.12Sarguninteresting
08:50.33Sargunthe dark colours look cool
08:51.51SargunYou cut the capture too quickly
09:05.01fozzmoo;-)
13:17.39*** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@216.31.27.110)
13:17.56SargunGreat, my computer turned off
13:17.59Sargunfozzmoo, you still awake?
13:18.38SargunGCC 4.2.2 Released!
13:19.26*** join/#utah sjansen (n=sjansen@216.243.239.137)
13:19.39Sargunsjansen, good morning
13:21.02elg-lart sjansen
13:26.04sjansen~hug elg
13:26.05ibotACTION hugs elg tightly until elg turns slightly blue
13:26.56sjansenelg: You're good enough. You're smart enough. And, gosh darn it, people like you.
13:27.56SargunBrokeBack mountain?
13:32.49Sargunhttp://www.pandora.com/music/song/skindred/start+1st < Anyone enjoy this song?
13:35.55^Migs^hey, that's pretty cool
13:36.20^Migs^not exactly the kind of rock/metal I like, but not bad
13:36.43elguh, thanks?
13:48.46*** part/#utah ^Migs^ (n=Migs@205.122.50.233)
13:54.01*** join/#utah ^Migs^ (n=Migs@205.122.50.233)
14:08.08*** join/#utah cardinal (i=judevrie@nat/novell/x-9c3f9514c8d975e1)
14:16.50^Migs^I found a neat webapp the other day: http://www.helpcenterlive.com
14:17.22^Migs^it's an online help chat system.  Users to a site can initiate a chat with you, but there's also some Javascript you can place ANYWHERE that will let you just start chatting with them out of nowhere
14:17.45^Migs^I've seen some sites with stuff like this before, but not until now a FOSS solution
14:20.15TeneInteresting.
14:20.25*** join/#utah thaddeusq (n=thaddeus@216.49.181.128)
14:22.27*** join/#utah Kemotaha (n=Kemotaha@pollux.northsky.com)
14:27.15^Migs^I'm putting it on a bunch of my web sites so I can harass my guests
14:27.22^Migs^:)
14:39.14Tene^Migs^: is it up anywhere yet?  I'd like to see it.
14:42.35^Migs^yeah
14:42.43^Migs^go to http://new.weber.k12.ut.us
14:43.04TeneI'm there.
14:43.21^Migs^refresh the site
14:43.31Tenerefreshed.
14:43.55^Migs^a little window should have popped up now
14:43.58TeneIt did.
14:44.01TeneInteresting.
14:44.52*** join/#utah sargun-palm (n=upirc@001-769-663.area1.spcsdns.net)
14:44.55sargun-palmhulo.
14:45.10sargun-palmwhat's up all.
14:46.32sargun-palm~ping
14:46.33ibotpong
14:47.14^Migs^I rather like it, at least.  I'm putting it on our student portal, because I'm constantly seeing parents have problems
14:48.27^Migs^It would be cool to just initiate a chat session with them when I see they're having problems from the server logs, and walk them through the process
14:48.32sargun-palmparents have problems with?
14:48.45^Migs^with navigating the web site
14:49.06sargun-palmget a better web master?
14:49.18^Migs^nonsense.  My web site is awesome.
14:49.42sargun-palmhaha.
14:49.45^Migs^Now everyone just needs to learn how to conform
14:49.55sargun-palmI can't remember where but I saw a website
14:50.07sargun-palmthat would change design based on the user
14:50.18^Migs^haha, that's cool
14:50.24^Migs^would the user have any control over it?
14:50.45sargun-palmaka it would weight each tag of the website and see which ones are weighed the highest
14:50.51^Migs^ah
14:50.51sargun-palmand put those as parents
14:51.17^Migs^what would be a cool is a site that analyzes how a user actually uses it, then reconfigures itself to make it easier to navigate for a particular user
14:51.18sargun-palmand see which ones are most specific to those parents that are often navigated
14:51.24sargun-palmyeah
14:51.41^Migs^kind of what you're saying, but I mean practically a whole redesign of itself
14:51.46sargun-palmso like if you went under discipline poliies a lot
14:51.58sargun-palmthat'd be added to your top level links
14:52.02^Migs^ya
14:52.31sargun-palmit is more than a redesign, its writing a huge dynamic layout engine
14:52.37sargun-palmand generation system
14:52.47^Migs^even add some crafty Javascript that identifies the specific section of the policy you usually view,
14:53.19sargun-palmthere were also some other nifty things, but I can't remember what they were
14:53.28sargun-palmI just remember menus were the coolest.
14:53.44*** join/#utah fozzmoo (n=fozz@66.7.122.158)
14:54.28sargun-palmyeah. well then you tie it into the child's attendance record.
14:54.32*** join/#utah wps (n=wps@64.0.193.157)
14:54.40sargun-palmand if they have 'bad' attendance
14:55.04sargun-palmyou bring that are of the policy higher in the page
14:55.27sargun-palmgoogle would be really good at this
14:55.43sargun-palmfozzmoo: how was your all nighter?
14:55.56sargun-palm~ping
14:55.57ibotpong
14:55.58fozzmoosargun-palm: It went until about 4:30
14:56.12fozzmooI got a few things done. :)
14:56.30sargun-palmhaha
14:56.30sargun-palmyour GWT stuff?
14:57.39sargun-palmwas that 430 inflicted due to being done, or due to age?
14:58.30sargun-palm~ping
14:58.31ibotpong
14:58.38*** join/#utah fungus (n=olsonl@bromine.sosstaffing.com)
14:59.05sargun-palmget rid of the fungus!
14:59.30sargun-palmhm, I have no idea why I took this business journal.
14:59.51sargun-palmor uh, er, 'the business journal'
15:00.10sargun-palmmaybe because some hot chick handed it to me?
15:01.22sjansen~free Kevin
15:02.02sargun-palmkevin? kevin is free.
15:03.15*** join/#utah mrpull (n=mrpull@205.158.184.126.ptr.us.xo.net)
15:04.01sargun-palmlater
15:04.01sargun-palm~ping
15:04.02ibotpong
15:05.11sargun-palmah crap.
15:11.51*** join/#utah mrpull_ (n=mrpull@205.158.184.126.ptr.us.xo.net)
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15:20.02sjansen~zen C
15:20.39sjansen~lament that all the good domain names are already taken
15:20.39ibotsjansen: that's too long
15:20.49sjansenibot: You're too long.
15:21.00sjansen-chat about ibot being too long
15:21.01bracincorrect usage, ask for help using 'brac: help chat'
15:21.12sjansen-chat about why bots hate me
15:21.12bracincorrect usage, ask for help using 'brac: help chat'
15:23.56leviMmm, worms.
15:25.00*** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@dhcp02.cs.nmsu.edu)
15:26.51leviMorning, elg.
15:27.07leviHeh, seen xkcd today?
15:30.42*** join/#utah neybar (n=jalance@pollux.northsky.com)
15:33.03*** join/#utah tiwula (n=lane@208.64.90.18.static.utahbroadband.com)
15:43.11maquisanyone here heard of zonbu?
15:43.31maquisit's an interesting computer... 99$ for the computer, and then 12.95/month...
15:43.39maquislooks interesting
15:44.08elghuh, "we'll
15:44.08elghave representatives from the Family Search project
15:44.08elgunveiling a Ruby library for accessing the new Family
15:44.08elgSearch web service API."
15:44.09maquisit appears to be running some sort of custom linux... but i haven't yet figured out what...
15:44.17elgthat about the oct 27 urug meeting
15:44.29elgallyourbase linux
15:51.26*** topic/#utah by Jayce^ -> The channel for content free discussion in Utah | http://plug.org/irc | Plug meeting tonight : Javascript
16:04.10elg-lart Jayce^script
16:05.56*** join/#utah shadowwire (n=shadowwi@mail.swplumb.com)
16:06.38shadowwirehello all
16:06.47elghello some
16:07.21elgthis morning's frozen loaf was a spectacular flying crust
16:07.33elglike an english muffin with a vaulted ceiling
16:07.42elgpitiful. probably because I slept in and it overproofed
16:08.32goozbach~seen sjansen
16:09.21ibotsjansen <n=sjansen@216.243.239.137> was last seen on IRC in channel #utah, 48m 9s ago, saying: '-chat about why bots hate me'.
16:09.22elg~say sjansen is a punk and I hope to ne'er see him again
16:09.23ibotsjansen is a punk and I hope to ne'er see him again
16:09.23elg-seen sjansen
16:09.23bracsjansen was last seen 26 minutes and 18 seconds ago, quitting IRC ("Lucite hardening ... must end life in classic Lorne Greene pose from "Battlestar Galactica."  Best ... death ... ever!")
16:09.38elg-chat hate sjansen
16:09.39brachate sjansen
16:09.47elg-chat who likes
16:09.47goozbach-chat sjansen is
16:09.47bracwho likes to joke around :)
16:09.48bracsjansen is a project I'm working on the fly miles are on their windows PC
16:10.08goozbachsjansen is a project brac is working on?
16:10.11goozbachinteresting...
16:11.00shadowwire-chat a project
16:11.00braca project in vim+bash
16:11.20shadowwireBrac: you need to work on full scentences.
16:11.49shadowwireklys?
16:13.38elggoozbach: using MFC it sounds like
16:14.27elganyone get to archive.org?
16:14.58leviNope.
16:24.57maquis-chat about maquis is
16:24.57bracmaquis is raher disturbed by that time
16:25.38*** join/#utah beandog (n=steve@gentoo/developer/beandog)
16:25.49maquis-chat about that time
16:25.49bracthat time (at which point the kernel panic loading the GUI? does anybody have any alerts set up maybe 6
16:28.30findlay-w-chat abou maquis is
16:28.30bracincorrect usage, ask for help using 'brac: help chat'
16:28.34findlay-w-chat about maquis is
16:28.34bracmaquis is googling, but just to get some clarified wording approved and sold all of em
16:29.22levihttp://weblog.fortnow.com/2005/07/what-kind-of-science-is-computer.html
16:29.23brac[Computational Complexity: What Kind of Science is Computer Science?]
16:29.51elghmm, librivox is kind of cool, but kind of annoying
16:30.00leviWhat does it do?
16:30.10elgpeople record chapters of public domain books
16:30.27leviThat could be annoying.
16:30.29elgevery chapter has a 20-second blurb about librivox though
16:30.36elgand each chapter is by a different person
16:30.42elgso it's kind of a wash
16:31.23leviAre the readers any good?
16:31.37maquiselg: but it could provide good input for speech recognition software
16:31.54maquisif it has lots of different voices reading lots of different words
16:32.03maquisand you can find the text easily to correct the software
16:32.04findlay-wlevi: they're ok usually
16:32.42elgaudible.com's website: "While audible's audio files are not ehs ame format as MP3 files, our format does offer distinct advantages: " the biggest advantage is that your audio selections are bookmarked (wtf!?). the other "advantage" is that it's more compact than MP3. Nowhere do they mention the "advantage" that their files are DRMed and that's the real reason why they're not going to give you an MP3
16:32.46elghttp://www.audible.com/adbl/site/offers/howItWorks.jsp?BV_UseBVCookie=Yes
16:33.24elglevi: I've sampled a couple. they're ok. some better than others
16:33.36leviHaving bookmarks is nice, but is that really a feature of the file format?
16:33.55elgI'd be willing to pay $5 for a decent reading of frankenstein today, but not one that's DRM
16:34.10leviYeah.
16:34.24elglevi: hardly. oh, *maybe* there's a spot in the file to write the current position
16:34.34maquishmmm... i don't think amazon mp3 has audio books yet
16:34.44leviWell, DRM backlash may be building.
16:34.55maquisbut... i think we do own a company that does that... i'm just not sure which company
16:34.57leviI don't imagine it'll hit Audible for a while, though.
16:35.10maquisyay for amazon not using drm!
16:35.21elgwell, cartalk used to use audible
16:35.27elgand before that, real
16:35.38findlay-welg: time for you to scratch your own itch!
16:35.40findlay-wha ha
16:35.47elgbut recently they switched to plain ol' mp3 podcast, and put all the old shows up too
16:35.51levimaquis: Cory Doctorow still thinks they're evil for the ToS on the downloads, or something.  You can't please him. ;)
16:36.03maquislevi: so...
16:36.07maquisi'm just happy we don't have DRM
16:36.08*** join/#utah fozzmoo (n=fozz@66.7.122.158)
16:36.10maquisthat makes me happy
16:36.18leviApparently Microsoft has given into the 'podcast' term, too.
16:36.20fozzmooYay! maquis is happy!
16:36.23shadowwiremooo makes you happy?
16:36.40findlay-w(La,Nb):(Zr,Ti)PbO3 !
16:36.59shadowwiremaquis: how do you pronounce your name.
16:37.15maquismaw-kee
16:37.17findlay-wmackwis
16:37.22maquislike in star trek
16:37.32findlay-waw, I got it wrong
16:37.37shadowwireOh. gotcha.
16:38.07shadowwirestar trek is all you had to say.
16:38.15maquis:)
16:38.15fozzmooheh.
16:38.34findlay-wStar Trek
16:38.43TeneI love giving the "firewall off all network traffic and then ssh in through the ipv6 link-local address" demo.
16:38.58shadowwireme too.
16:39.19shadowwirejk :)
16:39.20findlay-w-chat Tene demo
16:39.21bracTene demo
16:39.30Tene-chat findlay warble
16:39.31bracfindlay warble
16:39.32fozzmoo~demo Tene
16:39.33shadowwire~lart brac
16:39.33ibotsends a legion of lawyers after brac's head
16:40.35findlay-w-chat ~shoot Tene
16:40.35brac~shoot Tene
16:40.36ibotACTION shoots Tene in the head with a phase pistol!
16:42.36findlay-w~onjoin Sargun -chat lala Sargun
16:42.36ibotfindlay-w: ok
16:43.29elglooks like eMusic and simply audiobooks do drm-free
16:43.40elgbut emusic doesn't have it and simply audiobooks is amazingly expensive
16:44.43*** part/#utah jbellis (n=jbellis@69.60.124.247)
16:57.45leviWhat are you looking for?
16:57.50leviarchive.org seems to be up now.
16:59.49elgjust frankenstein
17:00.33elgarchive.org has the librivox stuff
17:00.33elgI found one.http://etc.usf.edu/lit2go/title/f/frankenstein.html
17:00.33brac[Lit2Go: Frankenstein]
17:10.12*** join/#utah sjansen (n=sjansen@216.243.239.137)
17:29.24*** join/#utah kreg_lt (n=kreg@208.98.188.95)
17:31.15sjansen~whistle
17:31.59Supaplex-chat sjansen
17:31.59bracsjansen went missing
17:33.51maquis-chat maquis
17:33.51bracmaquis had
17:34.01maquis-chat about Supaplex is
17:34.01bracSupaplex is around?
17:34.06maquisbrac: yes
17:34.14maquis-chat about sjansen is
17:34.15bracsjansen is jealous
17:34.31maquis-chat about frankenstein is
17:34.31bracfrankenstein is
17:34.39maquis-chat about elg is
17:34.40bracelg is *quite* aware.. hence the error popped up with the cow
17:34.55maquiselg: you'll have to tell us about that....
17:38.25*** join/#utah sjansen (n=sjansen@216.243.239.137)
17:38.56sjansen~cow elg
17:43.25*** join/#utah sjansen (n=sjansen@216.243.239.137)
18:06.19elgheh, these mp3s have the chapter text stored in the tags
18:14.27levi"Crazy.
18:14.30leviOops.
18:15.12leviIs it in the 'lyrics' storage area?
18:18.07^Migs^HAHAHAHA: BROOMFIELD, Colo. - A hungry six-year-old grabbed his grandmother’s car keys, positioned his child seat behind the steering wheel and tried to drive himself to an Applebee’s restaurant.
18:19.43leviWow, the QNX microkernel is 27 years old.
18:21.45elglevi: no, it's under ULC (unsynchronized lyric content) or something
18:22.04elgor maybe that's an affirmative. don't know much about the crazy world of id3
18:23.09leviYeah, I don't know the specific names of the fields.
18:23.19leviI just knew it could store lyrics somewhere.
18:25.41elgyou still have acm access?
18:26.00leviProbably... I haven't tried since the day I re-registered.
18:26.36elgI'm trying to find a legible version of this paper
18:26.36elghttp://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=211180
18:26.57elgthe one on parc's site has the right margin cut off. just a letter or so but it's fully justified and driving me nuts
18:27.09leviYou don't have acm access through your school library?
18:27.51elgnot to my knowledge
18:28.10leviI'll bet you do, somehow.
18:28.49leviOh, ACM doesn't even have that there, there's no PDF link.
18:28.54leviIt's just a bibliographic entry.
18:29.03elgoh ok
18:29.22leviWait a sec...
18:29.47leviNope, just bibliography.
18:30.25leviLet me see if that journal is available elsewhere.
18:32.05TeneWow.
18:32.28leviNope, I only have access to 1997 to present.
18:32.29TeneI just observed someone *defending* MUMPS (of tdwtf fame).
18:32.47TeneNow I know why that guy seems so crazy...
18:32.59elgI had mumps
18:33.06elgtried to learn it, too
18:33.23elgbut I was like 10 and the book was referential and I had no idea how to apply anything it said so it made no sense
18:34.16levielg: Your best bet would probably be a library loan or something or the PARC one.
18:34.53*** join/#utah linuxalien (i=nobody@oalug/member/linuxalien)
18:35.34leviYeah, that PARC paper is pretty annoying.
18:35.55leviWhat are you researching neural networks for?
18:36.28elginstrument recognition
18:37.05leviAhh, nifty.
18:37.16leviSounds plausible.
18:37.58leviI wrote a simple neural network that recognized a few letterforms, kind of like a coarser version of Fig 12a.
18:38.07leviPart of my AI class.
18:38.33elgfun
18:38.45leviIt was pretty cool, but writing the GUI for it was annoying.
18:38.47elgwhen it comes to audio analysis lots of the problems boil down to machine learning
18:39.23*** join/#utah kreg_lt (n=kreg@208.98.188.95)
18:39.31leviI guess you'd want to separate out the harmonics and overtones or whatever and match them against known instruments?
18:41.09elgwell even just classifying monophonic recordings of intstruments has proven more difficult than you'd think
18:41.21elgthough you get good results with various approaches as long as the instruments are different enough
18:41.34elgbut so many people try to classify e.g. violin vs. viola
18:41.37leviYeah, I don't actually think it would be /easy/. :)
18:41.41elgand wonder why they get abysmal results :)
18:41.58*** part/#utah linuxalien (i=nobody@oalug/member/linuxalien)
18:42.47leviMy wife shot me some eye-daggers the other day when I misspoke, referring to her viola as a violin.
18:43.00sjansenThe only way to get good results out of a violin is to call it a fiddle.
18:43.27leviThe only way to get good results out of an sjansen is to call it a troll. ;)
18:44.18sjansenlevi: Watch it levi or I will eat your children.
18:44.59leviNot /that/ kind of troll.
18:47.18leviHeh, apparently xkcd's 'wetriffs' site went online.  Pictures of people with guitars in the shower.  Some of the people must be naked, since it's tagged NSFW.
18:47.20sjansenSurely you don't mean an annoying person who picks fights and makes indefensible assertions.
18:47.31sjansenI think of myself as more of a gnome than a troll.
18:48.02sjansenHairy, unusual but endearing enough you might put one in the corner of your garden. (In moderation.)
18:48.58sjansenYou could bury your sister's Barbie collection under me and she'd never suspect.
18:49.26sjansenDon't use me to hide your house key, though, everyone knows that trick.
18:51.29*** join/#utah Hearts|laptop (n=hearts@166-70-210-101.ip.xmission.com)
18:55.45leviSpeaking of machine learning, here's a noble cause to which it's being applied: http://stupidfilter.org/wiki/index.php?n=Main.HomePage ;)
18:58.59sjansenhttp://search.cpan.org/dist/Locale-Maketext/lib/Locale/Maketext/TPJ13.pod#A_Localization_Horror_Story:_It_Could_Happen_To_You
19:03.56sjansento paraphrase what some people say about csh script programming, "it fools you into thinking you can use it for real things, but you can't, and you don't discover this until you've already spent too much time trying, and by then it's too late."  <-- A quote from the above.
19:04.25leviHeh.
19:04.51leviI think I've heard that one before.
19:08.36elgif anyone else wants to listen to frankenstein this month, hans.fugal.net/tmp/frankenstein
19:09.54elgit's a pity that the world seems to be converging on english, but converge it must
19:10.22elgEnglish, another case of worse is better
19:11.30elgenglish does have some distinct advantages, aside from being the language spoken by america. english is quick to absorb words from other languages (embrace and extend?) and has the whole add a suffix to make a verb/noun/gerund/etc. thing going (some languages don't)
19:13.12*** join/#utah cardinal (i=judevrie@nat/novell/x-57dc9ea0046c83a0)
19:24.59sjansenFor the anti-social in the audience:
19:25.05sjansenmkdir frankenstein && cd frankenstein/ && links --dump http://hans.fugal.net/tmp/frankenstein/ | sed -r '/mp3/{s/.*(http.*.mp3)/\1/;p};d' | xargs wget -c
19:25.09brac[Index of /tmp/frankenstein]
19:42.40thaddeusqs/han's/hans'/
19:43.40*** join/#utah cigerxwin21 (n=cigerxwi@85.98.3.109)
19:44.35leviArgh.  When I am ruler of the universe, I will outlaw writing C-style code with braces on their own lines!
19:44.46leviWell, with all the braces on their own lines.
19:44.56leviClosing braces can sometimes have them.
19:45.04sjansenBraces on their own line bugs me, but they make good sense.
19:45.10cigerxwin21hello humans
19:45.20cigerxwin2104chat pls
19:45.21Tene}else{
19:45.25Tene}sjansen{
19:45.28cigerxwin2104what
19:45.29sjansencigerxwin21: speciesist
19:45.30leviThey make good sense for people who have mistrained themselves to need them.
19:45.48leviBut they are ugly and I abhor them, so they will be banned!  You have been warned!
19:46.06leviI approve of } else {
19:46.41sjansen}\nelse\n{ is indefensible
19:47.18maquislevi, what about if(blah){\nstuff\n}\n?
19:47.34maquissjansen: what about }\nelse{?
19:47.44leviif (foo) \n { \n bar(); \n } \n is just so wretched.
19:47.44sjansenmaquis: That is the truth. The light that should illuminate ever programmer's soul.
19:48.02sjansenmaquis: Well, the first one is. The second is heresy.
19:48.03^Migs^I only put braces on their own lines, because code is more readable that way, in most cases
19:48.17levimaquis: Yes, it could use some spaces, but it's got reasonable newlines.
19:48.21elglevi: I prefer braces on their own lines. more aesthetic, easier to follow
19:48.28^Migs^I agree with elg
19:48.33levielg: Your aesthetic sense is broken!
19:48.42^Migs^when I leave a piece of code for months and have to come back to it later, I want my code to be readable
19:48.47elgsjansen: I could have made a tarball for ya :)
19:48.51^Migs^with plenty of comments
19:48.58sjansenif ( 5 != foo() ) {\n bar();\n }\n
19:49.07^Migs^see, I think that's unreadable, because when the brace is sharing a line you have to hunt around for it
19:49.19maquisunless you're typedefing a struct, in which case, closing gets the name of the typedef on its line too
19:49.24leviI find braces littering the code on their own lines severely hampers readability, since it smears the code needlessly across the page.
19:49.40maquis^Migs^: %
19:49.41sjansenif ( 5 != foo() ) {\n bar();\n } else {\n baz();\n }\n
19:49.55elgi usually prefer } else { but I've been known to like }\nelse\n{
19:49.58^Migs^nonsense, there are certainly some instances where having it on its own line improves readability, often if the code that follows is just one or two lines
19:50.24goozbachI like uuencoding it
19:50.30^Migs^in some cases, I'll even cram it all on one line because I don't want it to interfere with other important stuff
19:50.35levi^Migs^: Having just one or two lines of code separated by mostly-white lines is the most annoying!
19:50.36elglevi: I used to prefer java style, because of the vertical space thing
19:50.40elgbut I came to my senses
19:50.41^Migs^agreed
19:50.52levielg: You were corrupted.  And it's not Java-style, it's sane C style.
19:50.57maquisok... here's a related question... if you've only got 1 line of code in an if-block, do you stick braces around it?
19:50.58elgno, it's java style
19:50.59leviThe Java guys aped it.
19:51.21^Migs^I'm hiring a new developer in a few weeks here, and I'm going to tell him he HAS to put braces on their own lines
19:51.25levimaquis: Depends.
19:52.01sjansenif ( 5 != foo() )\n bar();\n        <--- Dangerous foolishness.
19:52.25maquissee... my issue is, if i don't stick braces around a single-line if-block, then when i want to add debug output or anything else to the line, i might forget to add the braces, and then it'll look like it's doing one thing, when it's actually doing something else
19:52.26leviWell, if some fascist with no sense has dictated that in the coding standards, of course I'd do it.  Having a consistently formatted codebase trumps stylistic niceties.
19:52.37maquisif they stick the one-line on the same line as the if, then it's ok
19:52.49Tenebar() if foo;
19:52.50maquisbut when it's on the line below, that just scares me
19:52.55sjansenmaquis: Exactly. All if/else should have braces.
19:53.26sjansenOne liners... should be used rarely if at all.
19:53.40maquissjansen: sure... but theyr'e better than without the braces
19:53.54maquisi've seen too much code that looked like it was doing A when actually it was doing Z
19:54.10maquisbecause someone indented it as if it was doing A, but didn't use braces
19:54.18sjansenman indent
19:54.24maquis(or did, but made the stupid indents do stupid stuff)
19:54.52maquissjansen: great... but that doesn't work in online code search viewers (for looking at code not owned by my team)
19:55.24sjansen$ cat .indent.pro
19:55.24sjansen-gnu
19:55.24sjansen-nut
19:55.24sjansen-bad
19:55.24sjansen-bli0
19:55.25Tenemaquis: write your own proxy that notices code and automatically runs it through indent.
19:55.45sjansenThat's the best set of indent args I've been able to find so far.
19:56.35sontekgoozbach: ping!
19:57.55Tenemaquis: a proper editor will display the code however you like it without touching the actual whitespace in the file.
19:59.05leviBasically, I say stick with K&R indentation style or the Java variant of it.
19:59.09elgthe only absolute truth when it comes to formatting is that nobody does it the way you want, and you don't do it the way others want
19:59.22maquisyeah... but when i edit it, i'm supposed to use whatever coding stylethe rest of the code in that file was using prior to me messing with it
19:59.28sjansenmaquis: True. Reformatting accepted code in an RCS is generally considered less than professional.
19:59.45Tenemaquis: and your editor should respect that when you save the file.
19:59.59sjansenTene: This goes beyond whitespace.
20:00.18elgnewlines aren't whitespace?
20:00.22maquisthis is office politics :)
20:00.57TeneI want my editor to have separate "How code is displayed" and "How code is saved" settings, and never change anything unless I actually edit it.
20:01.00TeneCan emacs do that?
20:01.03TeneMaybe I should convert.
20:01.05goozbachsontek: pong, for a second
20:02.07leviemacs can re-indent stuff for you, but it doesn't display things differently than they are in the file.
20:02.16Tenelame.
20:02.24TeneYou had your chance, emacs!
20:02.33Jayce^you could have 'tidy' rules goign in and out..
20:02.45TeneJayce^: that would reformat code that I don't touch.
20:02.49leviWell, if you wanted to, you could make emacs do about anything you wanted.
20:03.40sontekgoozbach: was wondering if you've ever tried to run win2k3 on xen, we are slowly moving everything off the windows boxes, but we still rely on exchange
20:03.43TeneI'd be up for that if it ran on parrot instead of lisp.
20:03.48elgTene: I agree, that would be awesome. I'd love intelligent intervention. if the code around the line being edited is indented with spaces, use spaces. if it's indented with tabs, use tabs. maybe even play the wheres-the-braces game in a similar manner
20:03.50sontekgoozbach: so we want to just virtualize it
20:04.29goozbachsontek: exchange virtulized? *shudder and dry heave*
20:04.32leviTo really do it properly, you'd need a parser for your language in your editor.
20:04.43goozbachI think you are opening the ark on that one
20:04.52goozbachI don't want to be around to watch your face melt off
20:05.16^Migs^the way I see it, there should be ZERO whitespace.  Code needs to be as crammed together as possible for EFFICIENCY
20:05.16elglevi: yup
20:05.22TeneWhich, I think, would be very cool.
20:05.32goozbachwinXP and Win2000 server *RUN* fully virt, but not well
20:05.48goozbachmaybe an option is to try the suse paravirt
20:05.58sontekgoozbach: but 2k3 not so well?
20:06.00goozbachI wish I could get my hands on that driver to see what it's all about
20:06.13goozbachI haven't tried 2k3
20:06.17goozbachdon't know
20:06.36goozbachbut if it's like any other microsoft product, the newer the version the more hardware is needed
20:06.50goozbachand 2k doesn't like being virtuallized under xen at all
20:06.58Tenegoozbach: so your win2k3 server will run better if I smash it up into many little servers?
20:07.42goozbachthen there's the issue of microsoft not supporting the platform
20:07.49sontekgoozbach: what do you mean? It just runs slower?
20:07.53leviMy question is, why does everyone want the {}s to be so emphasized?  They're there for the compiler more than the human reader, since they don't convey much semantic information.
20:07.57goozbachMUCH SLOWER!
20:08.11goozbachlike slide show when moving your mouse
20:08.14elgsjansen: isn't there a wget option to tell it to ignore robots.txt?
20:08.42sontekgoozbach: ahh, maybe we'll just keep a few boxes laying around with win2k3 on them
20:08.51goozbachI would suggest it
20:08.53elglevi: it's not the {} that's being emphasized, it's the whitespace
20:09.03goozbachExchange is a resourse hog
20:09.19elgI like it for the same reason that I like indented code
20:09.34levielg: I'm not following that reasoning.  Why do you want an extra nearly blank line before and after your code's body?
20:09.57elgfor the whitespace. why do you want a bunch of empty spaces or tabs before your code?
20:10.40leviThe tabs convey meaning, though, while the blank lines don't.
20:10.57elgdon't they? why not put eeverything on one line with semicolons?
20:11.21maquislevi: the {} comvey meaning
20:11.36maquisso, if they're not doing what the whitespace says is happening, then you do have a problem
20:11.44levimaquis: But it's exactly the same meaning you're conveying with the indentation.
20:11.54maquislevi: you hope
20:12.01sontekI don't see the point of having a curley on its own line up top, because then its just taking up space, when you have the full method signature to represent that start
20:12.22sontekvoid Main(string[] args) {      just seems cleaner to me
20:12.38levimaquis: Sure, if you've done something wrong, you need to check the braces.
20:12.40sontekand it fits more lines of code on my screen
20:13.34elgthe tabs are conveying exactly the same info that the braces already conveyed
20:13.41leviI think fitting more lines of code on the screen is a secondary thing.  More importantly, it keeps headings and bodies tightly coupled.
20:13.54levielg: Yes, but the tabs are for the human, the braces are for the machine.
20:14.03elgthe newlines are for the human
20:14.32levielg: I do sometimes use newlines inside blocks to convey grouping, but the indentation of a block already conveys that it's a group.
20:14.51leviA blank line before and after the statements in a body is redundant.
20:14.59elgthe closing brace is on its own line (I should hope). having the opening brace on its own line is more symmetric, more aesthetic. it sets apart the conditional (the most important thing to read) from the noise of the body
20:15.47elgit makes scanning code a lot faster, easier. it makes noticing brace problems easy. it encourages clean code. it discourages stupid short blocks that shouldn't be there
20:15.57leviPersonally, I wouldn't mind putting the closing brace on the last line of the last statement, except that it would make extending the body later more difficult.
20:16.03elgit's not the one true way, but it has a lot of advantages and it's more aesthetic, imho
20:17.04leviI'd just as soon not have to look at the braces at all.  Drawing attention to them annoys me.
20:17.16elgso the root is that you hate C ;)
20:17.47synicit's all about "\nelse:\n" :P
20:17.57leviWell, yes.  But it's not like my preferred indentation style is uncommon.  It's more or less like the one in the canonical C textbook!
20:18.07elgwhich nobody uses
20:18.22leviEveryone who seriously uses C uses it.
20:18.25elgoh, people use braces on the conditional line
20:18.29elgthat part they use
20:18.43elgbut there is a lot about that "canonical" style that everybody rightfully eschews
20:19.47leviOh, I meant everyone uses the book, not the style.
20:20.02leviYes, people generally use variants of the style.
20:22.40leviI think the style you advocate is pretty much only used by C++ programmers.  Probably because the language provides so many ways to blow your foot off, you get hyper-defensive after a while. ;P
20:23.13elglevi: I've seen more C++ code in the Java style than C code
20:23.22elgbut I won't deny that it's probably a side effect of blowing ones foot off :)
20:24.20leviThat, and it's the Microsoft-advocated style.
20:24.40elghehe. now you're just slinging mud ;-)
20:24.57leviIt's true!  It's the default style in MSVC++.
20:25.08leviAnd their code examples, etc.
20:25.22mrpull_is MS still pitching Hungarian notation?
20:25.37leviAnd a large percentage of the C++ population codes on the Microsoft platform.
20:25.58leviI don't know about Hungarian.  I hope not.
20:26.12elgi don't look at microsoft C++
20:26.22elgor the "population" that uses MSVC
20:26.25elgso I wouldn't know
20:27.06levielg: What, they're not lepers or anything.
20:27.48elgthey're not? they're using visual studio *and* C++ both? I'd say it's a pretty good chance they are.
20:27.53*** join/#utah TimRiker (n=timr@psnet.cc)
20:27.53*** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ
20:28.16leviWho's mud-slinging now?
20:28.45leviWell, yeah, but he's *always* slinging mud.
20:29.03elg~mud sjansen
20:29.22leviWhee, my mini embedded web server is coming along nicely.
20:30.48elgsome gimme in the flightgear irc channel wanted an intel mac binary. I happened to be planning on building one so I built it and uploaded it. he's complaining it's "f... slow" to download. the file is only 7.3M so either my bandwidth is stretched thin or his is. :)
20:31.06elgin either case, he's a jerk, but hey. I'm curious whether the binary I compiled will work for him
20:31.13elgit should, if I'm reading the output of otool right
20:34.21shadowwire-chat slinging mud
20:34.21bracslinging mud ;-)
20:34.47elg-chat sjansen was
20:34.48bracsjansen was forcing the development community.
20:34.55elgat gunpoint?
20:35.36shadowwireThats quite impressive, even for sjansen.
20:36.28vontrappmmm, chicken, relish, letuce, mustard and cheese sandwhich
20:36.51vontrappwith a side of monkey bread
20:36.57shadowwireAh yes, theres nothing quite like a good M.L.T
20:37.22vontrappdang i forgot the tomatoes
20:38.16shadowwireNo tomatoes? How will you survive?
20:38.35vontrappthe mustard helps
20:38.41shadowwireI see.
20:38.55vontrappand the cheese
20:39.21shadowwireI just happen to have 40 lbs of tomatoes at home that 12 people gave to me. (its the season)
20:39.49vontrappwe just got a pound or two of cherry tomatoes from me mum
20:39.52shadowwireok so 40 is an exageration.
20:40.24vontrappwhat's fun is when you leave the fresh ripe tomatoes you just got from someones garden in your hot car for a day :(
20:40.24elgi just happen to have a bottle of ketchup at home
20:40.49shadowwirehmmm.
20:41.14vontrapp"i put ketchup on my ketchup"
20:41.15shadowwireI left 10 lbs of steaks in my trunk for three days once.
20:41.16elgi just happen to have 10 lbs of new mexico green chile in my freezer
20:41.48shadowwiremy car has never been the same...
20:42.09shadowwire~lart my car
20:42.09ibotfrags my car with his BFG9000
20:46.53shadowwireanyone here play battlefield2 ?
20:47.47^Migs^I do
20:48.07shadowwireWhat servers do you commonly use?
20:48.14mrpull_~imdb battlefield earth
20:49.16shadowwireSpeaking of Battlefield earth, has anyone read L. Ron Hubards book by that name?
20:51.10shadowwireklys?
20:51.24mrpull_shadowwire:  i never have read Hubbard.  Is it interesting?
20:52.33Jayce^shadowwire, bleh
20:52.45Jayce^it is better than the movie, I'll grant it that
20:53.19^Migs^uh
20:53.20^Migs^I dunno
20:53.23^Migs^I just play the game
20:53.31leviI read some of his other books, and they were lame.
20:53.34^Migs^am I supposed to pick specific servers?
20:53.45elgno, you're supposed to pick your nose
20:54.11^Migs^do you often pick your nose?
20:54.18^Migs^because I find it relaxing
20:55.31elgi usually use the mouse cord
20:55.41elgor a usb cable
20:59.56leviSweet, form submissions via POST work.
21:00.42leviNow I just need a x-www-form-urlencoded decoder.
21:02.31emcnabbhttp://support.microsoft.com/kb/q276304
21:03.57leviHuh, here's an interesting C indentation style.  It puts the opening brace of a block on the next line, even with the statement that uses it, but also puts the first line of code on that line.
21:05.02elgemcnabb: haha
21:06.15shadowwireLevi: Battlefield is a much better book than anything else Hubbard wrote.
21:06.27shadowwire(battlefield earth)
21:06.27leviI'll take your word for it.
21:06.57shadowwireI was very dissapointed with the mission earth series.
21:07.45^Migs^I'm very disappointed with books in general.  All those words and no pictures.
21:08.01*** join/#utah tiwula (n=lane@208.64.90.18.static.utahbroadband.com)
21:08.33leviI'm very disappointed with ^Migs^ in general.  All those words and no real content.
21:08.57elgall those carets and no real rabbits
21:08.59^Migs^levi 1 ^Migs^ 0
21:10.34*** join/#utah klys (n=admini@72.8.125.9)
21:10.39klys~seen shadowwire
21:10.45ibotshadowwire is currently on #utah (5h 4m 49s). Has said a total of 29 messages. Is idling for 3m 48s, last said: 'I was very dissapointed with the mission earth series.'.
21:10.45klysseen shadowwire
21:11.30klys~lart scientology
21:11.30ibotbeats the living hamstercrap out of scientology
21:12.21dataw0lfHubbard
21:12.54klysmy desktop is thrashing again, I'll have to reconfigure
21:12.59elgyeah, looks like my flying crust was likely because of overproofing
21:13.02leviHere's some nice-looking C code: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/network/excerpt/spcookbook_chap03/index2.html
21:13.05brac[O'Reilly Network -- Secure Cooking with C and C++, Part 2]
21:13.32elglevi: that code looks decent, except for the misplaced open braces
21:13.47^Migs^~seen ^Migs^
21:13.49ibot^migs^ is currently on #utah (7h 19m 48s). Has said a total of 42 messages. Is idling for 2s, last said: '~seen ^Migs^'.
21:13.57levielg: Nah, it's just right.
21:15.04emcnabb~lart elg
21:15.04ibottakes out elg with the trash
21:15.13*** join/#utah klys_ (n=admini@72.8.125.9)
21:15.13emcnabbI haven't done that for ages, feels good
21:15.17emcnabb~lart elg
21:15.17ibotwhips out his power stapler and staples elg's foot to the floor
21:16.41^Migs^~whaleslap emcnabb
21:16.42ibotACTION beats emcnabb upside and over the head with a freakishly huge killer whale named Hugh
21:16.42maquisok... just got a vim question from someone here at work, and i'm not sure of the answer
21:16.44klys_I'm getting error -3 and error -5 uncompressing block from cloop, wonder if it can't read the disk
21:17.45maquisso, let's say you have 2 terminals open, and you've got vim running in each terminal
21:18.05maquisnow, you want to copy a large chunk of information from the file open in one terminal, into the file open in the other terminal
21:18.10maquisis that even possible?
21:18.36maquishow do you copy from vim into the buffer...
21:18.38klys_you'd have to save the copybuffer
21:18.54klys_unless you're using the kernel clipboard
21:19.47maquisklys_: how do you copy to the kernel clipboard?
21:20.03klys_gpm, it can only read what is visible on the screen
21:20.20klys_you could make a kernel driver to do it
21:23.51*** join/#utah fungus (n=olsonl@bromine.sosstaffing.com)
21:24.10shadowwire~seen Klys
21:24.12ibotklys is currently on #utah (13m 38s). Has said a total of 4 messages. Is idling for 11m 18s, last said: 'my desktop is thrashing again, I'll have to reconfigure'.
21:24.44maquisthat's not the last thing he said!
21:24.55shadowwireklys: Sup?
21:25.14shadowwireyea, hey...
21:26.05thaddeusq~seen klys_
21:26.06ibotklys_ is currently on #utah (10m 53s). Has said a total of 5 messages. Is idling for 5m 46s, last said: 'you could make a kernel driver to do it'.
21:29.15klys_hey man
21:30.33thaddeusq~thaddeusq
21:30.41thaddeusq~seen thaddeusq
21:30.43ibotthaddeusq is currently on #utos (7h 10m 18s) #ubuntu-utah (7h 10m 18s) #utah (7h 10m 18s). Has said a total of 16 messages. Is idling for 2s, last said: '~seen thaddeusq '.
21:31.05klysthis gets interesting
21:33.20klyswhat's new
21:33.49shadowwirenot much
21:34.03*** join/#utah calvarez (n=Hhhhh@lawn-143-215-207-25.lawn.gatech.edu)
21:34.07shadowwirehave you read the moag blog klys?
21:34.28sjansenMan, it's so inconvenient when a good programming debate gets started and I have to start teaching.
21:34.43shadowwireyea, teaching stinks.
21:35.01shadowwireas does learning.
21:35.10sjansenTeaching is fun. So long as I get to decide what, when and how. Otherwise it's work.
21:35.28shadowwirewell, you know what they say.
21:35.45shadowwireIf work were fun they'd charge admission.
21:35.50sjansenDon't mix colors with your whites in the laundry?
21:35.55shadowwirethat too.
21:36.22klysis Atrissa with the DRE
21:36.38shadowwirealso, the only bad thing about life is you cant get out of it alive.
21:36.48sjansenActually, 85% of the time this job is fun. Better than many.
21:36.53sjansenBut still.
21:37.09shadowwireklys: no Atrissa was on the council 5k yrs ago.
21:37.10sjansenThe world should pay me as much as I want to do whatever I want whenever I want to.
21:37.14klysok
21:37.30shadowwireok?
21:37.35sjansenWoo hoo! klys agrees! Any other takers?
21:37.39shadowwirefine agree with sjansen.
21:37.51klysshadowwire: ok
21:37.58shadowwire~ibot: agree with sjansen
21:38.14shadowwiremaybe not.
21:38.15klys~agree with shadowwire
21:38.20klysyeah
21:38.33shadowwireyeah, what he said...
21:38.45sjansen~ridicule shadowwire
21:38.45ibotACTION drops shadowwire in a tank of pink paint and herring
21:38.51sjansen~argue with shadowwire
21:39.05sjansen~disagree with shadowwire
21:39.12sjansen~silence sjansen
21:39.12ibotACTION shoves an apple in sjansen's mouth, shoves a spit through ... well, uhm, anyway ... then builds a nice fire and starts roasting
21:39.20sjansenOuch! Hey!
21:39.36shadowwireThats gotta hurt.
21:40.22maquissjansen: you asked for it...
21:40.35sjansen~give maquis what for
21:40.36ibotACTION gives what for to maquis
21:40.45maquis~fight sjansen
21:40.46ibotACTION laughs as sjansen reboots c-24-17-72-165.hsd1.mn.comcast.net sending maquis into the aether
21:40.48sjansenTake that!
21:40.54maquishey!
21:41.02maquis-lart ibot
21:46.47*** join/#utah fozzmoo (n=fozz@166-70-238-250.ip.xmission.com)
21:47.28klysbut I don't have a tv
21:47.34klyshmm
21:48.14klysI think the meeting is on iProvo though
21:50.09fozzmooklys: That explains a lot.
21:53.32klysyou want more info?
21:54.29klysthe town meeting is maybe today...
21:55.34^Migs^is maybe today?
21:55.57^Migs^if I don't live in Provo, am I allowed at the town meeting?
21:57.29*** join/#utah brasto (n=brasto@out.lnxi.com)
21:57.31klysyou have to tune in
21:58.05brastoTimRiker - can you connect ibot / jbot to #cwxtesting ?
21:58.31brastoalso, I'm curious if the bot has any documentation?
21:58.38brasto~documentation
21:58.39ibot[documentation] not the issue for why the new stuff isn't completed
21:58.48klysI think it uses blootbot
22:00.17brasto~blootbot
22:00.18ibotit has been said that blootbot is an IRC bot written in perl descended from infobot. Hosted on SF. Patches welcome, submit on SF or mailto:Tim@Rikers.org, or http://blootbot.sourceforge.net/ , I am a blootbot
22:00.22brac[B L O O T B O T . H O M E]
22:01.30sontek~ctcp ping #utah
22:01.42sontekawww
22:01.43sontek:p
22:02.04brasto~ctcp
22:02.04ibothmm... ctcp is the Client To Client Protocol, part of IRC (version, ping, etc.).  Computer That Can Piss
22:09.09*** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@dhcp02.cs.nmsu.edu)
22:09.21*** part/#utah brasto (n=brasto@out.lnxi.com)
22:11.39TimRiker/msg ibot help  to get documentation. :)
22:11.47sontek~help!
22:11.48iboti heard help is /msg apt help
22:12.09sontekibot: You heard wrong
22:13.00TimRikerhehe
22:13.06TimRiker~literal help!
22:13.07ibot"help" is "/msg apt help"
22:13.38TimRiker~no, help is /msg $ident help
22:13.56TimRikeribot: no, help is /msg $ident help
22:13.57ibotTimRiker: okay
22:14.03TimRiker~help!
22:14.04ibotrumour has it, help is /msg ibot help
22:14.12TimRiker~literal help!
22:14.13ibot"help" is "/msg $ident help"
22:14.16TimRiker:)
22:17.50elgi just had some dark chocolate m&ms. yumm
22:17.59elgI wonder if they make dark chocolate peanut m&ms
22:20.58elgsweet, they do!
22:21.08*** part/#utah elg (n=fugalh@dhcp02.cs.nmsu.edu)
22:21.10*** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@dhcp02.cs.nmsu.edu)
22:23.23klysyou are not
22:23.32klysI will call you to reflection
22:23.39klysdid you dream at all this morning?
22:23.45klyswhat is your attitude?
22:24.08elgi'm thinking about ditching my dsl with static IP for comcast
22:24.32klysdo you host anything
22:24.51klysoh, of course you do
22:25.12elgtons :)
22:25.30klyshave a look at zendurl and leadhoster, if you want to switch
22:26.28thaddeusqyou also may want to look at http://comcastissue.blogspot.com/ before switching
22:26.50elgwell, I know comcast and power linux user are usually a bad mix
22:26.58elgwhich is why I wonder if I'm going crazy
22:27.35klysso, your attitude is "power user".  somehow I doubt this is totally reflective
22:28.05elgyes, I admit to using a bit of a matte finish
22:28.27klyscould you describe matte to me?
22:28.49elg~dict matte
22:31.37klyshttp://file.hideyon.blog.shinobi.jp/284a6f99.gif
22:34.33elgno affordable cable package includes bbc america. guess that cinches it
22:34.41elgi'll have to test my sanity another day
22:36.59klyswhen you don't know for sure it's a self-defeating tradeoff, then it's either science or gambling.  when you know, it could be fatalist.
22:39.07elgif you're only 50% sure, is it injuryist?
22:39.35klysonly 100% sure is masochistic
22:40.13klysI mean, from a conscious value judgment
22:41.10klysthose who go a long time without making value judgments aren't crazy, rather just lost.
22:42.43klysit's when you fear your own psyche you should contact the fact man or writing on the wall
22:44.17*** join/#utah klys_ (n=admini@72.8.125.9)
22:44.45klys_~seen me
22:44.49ibotme <n=Me@adsl-074-236-100-138.sip.bct.bellsouth.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #norganna, 13d 17h 37m 2s ago, saying: 'i ahte this new thing where we have to wait an hour to recieve our auction gold'.
22:44.54klys_~seen klys
22:44.55ibotklys is currently on #utah. Has said a total of 29 messages. Is idling for 2m 12s, last said: 'it's when you fear your own psyche you should contact the fact man or writing on the wall'.
22:44.59klys_still doesn't mean you should ask for a replacement
22:45.14klys_~seen elg
22:45.15ibotelg is currently on #utah (24m 5s). Has said a total of 9 messages. Is idling for 6m 8s, last said: 'if you're only 50% sure, is it injuryist?'.
22:45.19klys_hmm
22:45.22klys_oh well
22:49.46sontekyou guys see this yet? =) http://xkcd.com/327/
22:49.50brac[xkcd - A webcomic of romance, sarcasm, math, and language - By Randall Munroe]
22:50.18Jayce^sontek, you're just way behind if you just are reading that
22:51.36sontekJayce^: I rely on mark to send me the funny ones
22:51.48sontekJayce^: he just reads comics and forums all day instead of working =)
22:52.04sontekJayce^: but it saves me the time of seeing bad ones
22:52.14Jayce^xkcd is worth following
23:05.54herlodude, onlinedesktop totally rocks in F8
23:07.50klysshadowwire: when are you off
23:09.38klysnext innovation in irc: seat switch (when seated, the switch is on)
23:13.58*** join/#utah kreg (n=kreg@208.98.188.95)
23:14.12klys...one step closer to playing a full game of tag online
23:29.35*** join/#utah javert42 (n=javert42@128.187.81.234)
23:31.40maquis~lart javert42
23:31.40ibotteaches javert42 that M$ Access is a database. No, really, a database. A real live multi-user... well, ok, not multi-user, but a database. Yeah, that sounds right.
23:33.22javert42Hi maquis!
23:34.06javert42maquis: Did you manage to lure any unsuspecting BYU students into interviewing with Amazon?
23:35.30sontekklys: that switch is called /away
23:37.14klysyeah, you have to type it with your hands.  I mean a device you can have one button associated with your toosh
23:39.33levi~seen vontrapp
23:39.34ibotvontrapp is currently on #utah (17h 45m 52s). Has said a total of 15 messages. Is idling for 2h 58m 20s, last said: '"i put ketchup on my ketchup"'.
23:39.57levivontrapp: The wikipedia bowling score section is awful.
23:40.00sontekklys: I use http://www.irssi.org/scripts/scripts/screen_away.pl
23:40.04sontekits basicly the samething
23:40.08Supaplex~onjoin sjansen -chat sjansen
23:40.08ibotok, Supaplex
23:40.21sontek-chat sjansen
23:40.22bracsjansen went missing was recently telling me that if it was hopelessly out of tune so fast that it is because the phone numbers that are minimal, and designed with a pineapple on her head, singing ~o pineapple pineapple ~o
23:40.37Supaplexhahah nice
23:42.21*** join/#utah tristanbob_ (n=tristanb@oalug/member/tristanbob)
23:43.15*** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@216.31.27.110)
23:45.45elgok, ubuntistas
23:46.03elgthe time to update this computer is now, not in 8 days, so where do I find the sources.list snippets ?
23:46.07elgto get 7.10
23:46.20synicjust switch feisty to gutsy in sources.list
23:46.53elgthanks
23:58.11elgif I do that, will it mess up some glorified "slick update"?
23:59.10elglevi: I sic'ed interlibrary loan on that article
23:59.29leviNice.

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