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| 00:43.32 | Supaplex | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:43.35 | Supaplex | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:43.40 | Supaplex | mmmm yum |
| 00:45.05 | nick125 | ugh. |
| 00:45.12 | nick125 | Why the heck does gentoo *still* have wxpython 2.6? |
| 00:45.47 | Supaplex | just because |
| 00:46.28 | nick125 | 2.8 has been out since december 11th, 2006 |
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| 01:36.14 | vontrapp_ | hmm, my template class isn't working |
| 01:36.29 | vontrapp_ | i get undefined reference to sem_q<int>::sem_q() |
| 01:41.02 | vontrapp | where are the c++ template users? |
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| 04:06.16 | levi | Don't you love it when people who are pretty new to something decide they're going to write an all-encompasing tutorial? |
| 04:06.52 | vontrapp | who better to write a tutorial than one being tutored? |
| 04:07.21 | vontrapp | i need to rm a whole bunch of ipcs all at once |
| 04:07.27 | vontrapp | how do i do it? |
| 04:07.39 | tensai | rm * |
| 04:07.45 | vontrapp | with ipcrm |
| 04:07.50 | tensai | ipcrm * |
| 04:09.27 | tensai | ipcs |grep 0x |perl -lane 'print $F[0]' |xargs -n 1 ipcrm -M |
| 04:09.58 | levi | vontrapp: Someone who actually knows the subtle details as well as the gross generalities, I would think. |
| 04:10.08 | tensai | 40% of rebates go unclaimed |
| 04:10.27 | Supaplex | not in this household. it's more like 5% :) |
| 04:11.08 | Supaplex | granted there are 50 rebates to finish, but hey, a free pc is a free pc. |
| 04:11.16 | tensai | I stay away from anything with a rebate as a matter of principle |
| 04:11.51 | Supaplex | I've seen all the rebates I've qualified+applied for in the last 2 years or so |
| 04:12.25 | vontrapp | tensai: ... | xargs -n 1 ipcrm -s |
| 04:12.33 | vontrapp | and with ipcs -s at the front |
| 04:12.35 | vontrapp | but yeah, thx |
| 04:12.47 | tensai | vontrapp: never used ipcs or ipcrm, so I was just guessing |
| 04:13.59 | vontrapp | the xargs -n 1 is a nifty trick |
| 04:14.10 | vontrapp | i'll remember that one |
| 04:16.17 | vontrapp | now if i could just figure this out |
| 04:16.17 | vontrapp | semun x; |
| 04:16.17 | vontrapp | x.val = 10; |
| 04:16.21 | vontrapp | semctl(sem, 0, SETVAL, x); |
| 04:16.28 | vontrapp | semctl(sem, 0, GETVAL, x); |
| 04:16.38 | vontrapp | printf("val: %d", x.val); |
| 04:16.47 | vontrapp | which gives me.... "val: 1" |
| 04:16.52 | vontrapp | what happened to 10? |
| 04:16.54 | vontrapp | dunno |
| 04:16.56 | vontrapp | it's a mystery |
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| 04:28.13 | vontrapp | i tried it with &x |
| 04:28.31 | vontrapp | i tried it with all permutations of &x and x |
| 04:28.41 | vontrapp | no stinkin luck |
| 04:30.33 | vontrapp | i don't understand why val is type int, and array is type unsigned short * |
| 04:30.34 | vontrapp | doesn't make any sense to me |
| 04:32.00 | vontrapp | it's only when i try to set values in a semaphore set of more than one |
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| 04:58.41 | levi | vontrapp_: Sounds bizarre. |
| 04:59.07 | vontrapp_ | ok, i've almost got it |
| 04:59.19 | vontrapp_ | it was working fine to begin with, my method of observing it was off |
| 05:00.24 | vontrapp | now, for some reason the correct semaphore isn't even being used |
| 05:00.25 | vontrapp | which is why i thought it was messed up in the first place |
| 05:01.10 | vontrapp | i set member variable sems to the sem in the constructor |
| 05:01.15 | vontrapp | all goes well there |
| 05:01.25 | vontrapp | when i access it later in the member methods, it's just 0 |
| 05:02.11 | vontrapp | it's been like 6-7 years since i've really used c++ |
| 05:04.53 | vontrapp | i don't need any self.sems or anythign like that, do i? |
| 05:07.06 | goozbach | ~console redbeard |
| 05:07.06 | ibot | ACTION gives redbeard the consolation moose |
| 05:07.27 | vontrapp | what about me? |
| 05:10.31 | tensai | ~semaphore vontrapp |
| 05:23.14 | levi | Aaagh. My daughter steadfastly refuses to sleep. :/ |
| 05:38.41 | *** join/#utah Sargun (n=Sargun@69-12-240-206.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) |
| 05:44.16 | levi | Finally, she's asleep! |
| 05:45.14 | Sargun | What is the common seperator: |
| 05:45.15 | Sargun | 3e7324ef78137db6db6cf9cc93ffffff |
| 05:45.19 | SorenStoutner | Supaplex's caffeine must be of the non-pure variety, then. |
| 05:45.20 | Sargun | 39f09277bc9c7db6db6ce7c249ffffff |
| 05:45.25 | Sargun | 7509a12771b4f7b6d6db7509a127fffffff |
| 05:45.27 | Sargun | Its hex. |
| 05:45.37 | Sargun | I mean |
| 05:46.03 | Sargun | The 7db6d looks awfully attractive |
| 05:46.10 | Sargun | that might be the value of the card though? |
| 05:48.50 | Sargun | It might just be a random value to throw me off? |
| 05:49.32 | Sargun | 18 ff fede04df 6db6db 3e7324ef78137db6db6cf9cc93ffffff |
| 05:49.32 | Sargun | 18 ff ffcf271f 6db6db 39f09277bc9c7db6db6ce7c249ffffff |
| 05:49.32 | Sargun | 19 ff fe8def7 6db6db 7509a12771b4f7b6d6db7509a127fffffff |
| 05:49.38 | Sargun | Where is the differences? |
| 05:49.47 | Sargun | That's the raw data after I've parsed it. |
| 05:49.54 | Sargun | well |
| 05:49.59 | Sargun | spaces mean cuts. |
| 05:51.05 | Sargun | hm |
| 05:56.27 | levi | Sargun: What are you trying to decipher? |
| 05:57.15 | Sargun | A magstripe. |
| 05:57.21 | Sargun | but I don't think its hex |
| 05:57.38 | Sargun | The first two have the same card value |
| 05:58.18 | Sargun | the third is 5.50 |
| 05:58.27 | Sargun | All the data is on track 2 |
| 05:58.34 | Sargun | Well, the cards only have one track, track 2. |
| 05:58.51 | Sargun | but looking at how the data is "Split" oddly, it doesn't look like its hex. |
| 05:59.05 | levi | All computer data is binary. All binary can be displayed in hex format as a shorthand. |
| 05:59.59 | levi | Of course, the binary data might have fields that don't follow byte boundaries. |
| 06:00.40 | levi | Which is likely in the case of a magnetic strip, where you'd want to encode as much info as possible. |
| 06:01.00 | Sargun | yeah |
| 06:01.46 | Sargun | do you propose I decode it from hex, and turn it into an integer? |
| 06:05.45 | levi | Well, it's hard to say what you ought to do without any kind of idea what sort of data you're looking for. |
| 06:06.05 | levi | Are these credit cards or something? |
| 06:06.32 | Sargun | uh, no. |
| 06:06.36 | Sargun | They are print cards. |
| 06:06.53 | levi | What's a print card? |
| 06:07.24 | Sargun | Its a magnetic card with "fake" cash on it that you can use to print with |
| 06:08.08 | vontrapp | are you trying to give yourself more fake cash? |
| 06:09.15 | vontrapp | ok, i'm really stumped here |
| 06:09.28 | vontrapp | i have a constructor |
| 06:09.46 | vontrapp | sem_q::sem_q() { sems = blah; ... } |
| 06:09.54 | vontrapp | i have a member method |
| 06:10.07 | Sargun | no. |
| 06:10.29 | vontrapp | sem_q::deq { printf("sems = %d\n", sems); } |
| 06:10.57 | vontrapp | in the constructor i see that sems is being assigned 4325441 |
| 06:11.07 | vontrapp | in deq(), i print it out and it's 0 |
| 06:11.15 | vontrapp | i really have no idea why |
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| 06:18.08 | levi | Stick the code in a pastebin? |
| 06:32.02 | vontrapp | levi: http://pastebin.com/d58882318 |
| 06:32.02 | vontrapp | if you're still up |
| 06:32.46 | levi | I'll take a look in a sec. |
| 06:38.51 | levi | Hmm, I was hoping to see what was in the header file. |
| 06:39.01 | vontrapp | http://pastebin.com/d102c2fa3 |
| 06:39.06 | vontrapp | that has the header at the top |
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| 06:41.47 | vontrapp | wow, that's the worst diffing i've ever seen |
| 06:47.46 | levi | The only thing I can think of is that the deque that's in sem_q is somehow overflowing into the int that's stored next to it. |
| 06:48.26 | levi | But I don't really know how the innards of deque work. I guess it's got to dynamically allocate memory somewhere, so that doesn't seem likely. |
| 06:51.25 | vontrapp | i tried puting sems first |
| 06:51.25 | vontrapp | still get the same |
| 06:51.25 | vontrapp | when i put this->sems in the constructor i get this |
| 06:51.26 | vontrapp | semq.cc:7: error: expected unqualified-id before ‘this’ |
| 06:51.26 | vontrapp | which seems like it might be a clue |
| 06:53.10 | vontrapp | deque is claimed to be a lot like vector and list |
| 06:53.38 | Supaplex | SorenStoutner: it's the time release variety. levi's daughter will be quad core hyper in the morning. |
| 06:57.04 | levi | BTW, I've been working on the programming languages group idea I had. |
| 06:57.17 | levi | If anyone's interested, take a look at plig.jottit.com |
| 07:14.30 | Supaplex | humm. neat. i'll have to look again when I'm awake next. zZZzzz |
| 07:14.42 | Supaplex | ps, your <title></title> is too terse. |
| 07:16.57 | Sargun | Hm, anyone know why bandwidth is so expensive? |
| 07:17.05 | Sargun | apart from last mile. |
| 07:17.54 | Supaplex | I think it's the other miles inbetween to. |
| 07:18.26 | Sargun | I wonder if its the intraPOP |
| 07:18.28 | Sargun | stuff |
| 07:18.36 | Sargun | or routers/switches/etc... |
| 07:20.07 | Supaplex | ma bell |
| 07:27.12 | Sargun | destroy AT&T |
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| 13:46.14 | sjansen | Huh, I'm having trouble Googling for the lyrics to Raffi's "I brush my teeth".... |
| 13:51.18 | redbeard2 | sjansen: that's not the only troubling thing about you this morning |
| 13:52.55 | sjansen | redbeard2: Oh yeah? Well eat this redbeard2! http://icanhascheezburger.com/2007/09/25/screw-dis-no-wants/ |
| 13:55.22 | sjansen | Bah, there's all kinds of annoying whining and bragging on the Web if you search for "I brush my teeth". |
| 14:00.28 | redbeard2 | okay, i'm still trying to figure out what the deal is with all of those photos with weird captions in broken engrish. |
| 14:01.33 | sjansen | redbeard2: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lolcat |
| 14:01.55 | *** topic/#utah by sjansen -> The channel for content free discussion in Utah | http://plug.org/irc | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lolcat http://icanhascheezburger.com/ |
| 14:04.45 | redbeard2 | sjansen: o rly? |
| 14:06.31 | sjansen | rly! |
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| 14:34.26 | Supaplex | moin sjansen |
| 14:41.36 | goozbach | if a machine has 50% IO wait that means the disks aren't keeping up, doesn't it? |
| 14:42.54 | Supaplex | sounds like a pretty busy box |
| 14:48.11 | goozbach | er a better raid |
| 14:49.43 | Supaplex | any additional suggestions on local stores for a SR5130NX compaq pc? $429.99 is the cheapest I've found (bestbuy), but I've compared circuit city, staples, officedepot, officemax, and target. |
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| 14:50.50 | Supaplex | moin thaddeusq |
| 14:51.05 | thaddeusq | hello |
| 14:53.22 | fozzmoo | http://youtube.com/watch?v=BO0mmCON8dY |
| 14:53.33 | fozzmoo | I'm not a Family Guy kind of guy, but that cracked me up. |
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| 15:02.53 | elg | -lart emcnabb |
| 15:03.14 | elg | redbeard2: what I want to know is what happened to the toothache? did your tooth fall out? |
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| 15:11.10 | goozbach | ~console redbeard2 |
| 15:11.10 | ibot | ACTION gives redbeard2 the consolation moose |
| 15:11.20 | goozbach | poor guy, had to go to Houston... |
| 15:11.42 | elg | so I had the odious task yesterday of giving a 1-hour lecture on RSA to juniors, starting from modular arithmetic |
| 15:11.58 | goozbach | and the training center isn't even in the cool highrise building anymore |
| 15:12.00 | fozzmoo | How odious. |
| 15:12.35 | elg | "here's the basics of modular arithmetic. (hand waving). here's RSA" |
| 15:12.49 | *** part/#utah Jense (n=jenseman@pD9E75194.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:13.16 | elg | i think they understand how to implement rsa now, but of course they have no understanding of why it works |
| 15:13.30 | elg | we spent a week on modular arithmetic alone when I took computer security from seamons |
| 15:13.42 | elg | but this is an algorithms class, not computer security |
| 15:14.08 | beandog | http://www.woot.com/ |
| 15:18.11 | RyanE | elg: I read that as: "1-hour lecture on RSA to Janitors"... much funnier. |
| 15:18.30 | elg | yeah, that would be pretty pointless :) |
| 15:18.56 | RyanE | some people have a gift for explaining to the lay person, but that's a bit much. |
| 15:20.03 | goozbach | RyanE: "Janitor" is not the PC term... it's "Custodial Engineer" |
| 15:20.32 | RyanE | I don't think I've been accused of being overly-PC. |
| 15:20.46 | goozbach | well that's just an FYI then |
| 15:20.54 | elg | I'm a mac guy myself |
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| 15:33.42 | sargun_work | RyanE, who's class are you in? |
| 15:33.51 | sargun_work | redbeard2, your an Evil bastard. |
| 15:33.53 | sargun_work | RH033? |
| 15:34.04 | RyanE | sargun_work: a class of my own. :) |
| 15:34.21 | RyanE | I just like vi/vim. |
| 15:38.00 | redbeard2 | sargun_work: si. |
| 15:38.12 | redbeard2 | er. sim. i guess. |
| 15:39.38 | redbeard2 | one of my students just asked me, "Are you SURE we're going to get used to these key bindings?" |
| 15:44.44 | elg | redbeard2: the correct answer is—if you don't you don't get lunch |
| 15:45.50 | *** join/#utah decriptor (n=sshaw@sshaw.fttp.xmission.com) |
| 15:45.52 | redbeard2 | i told him "eventually" |
| 15:50.04 | redbeard2 | a couple of my students got excited when i showed him that a couple of key bindings work in gmail |
| 15:50.10 | redbeard2 | ~google++ |
| 15:50.29 | redbeard2 | *showed them |
| 15:53.33 | fozzmoo | redbeard2: I know how that goes... |
| 15:53.40 | sargun_work | redbeard2, When are you going to cover the interesting stuff? |
| 15:53.47 | fozzmoo | when I was giving my presentation on NetworkManager at UTOSC... |
| 15:54.13 | fozzmoo | the atmosphere was pretty stoic until I explained that I use NM's dialup capability to connect to the Internet via my Treo. |
| 15:54.22 | fozzmoo | Then the room lit up - everyone wanted to know how I did that. |
| 15:54.38 | fozzmoo | How fast is it? What cell provider is the best data carrier? etc etc. |
| 15:55.01 | redbeard2 | sargun_work: are you saying vim isn't interesting? |
| 15:55.04 | fozzmoo | Like: Screw NetworkManager, I want Internet access on my laptop via my Treo |
| 15:55.26 | sargun_work | VIM is painful. |
| 15:55.45 | sargun_work | nano is good. |
| 15:56.13 | fozzmoo | sargun_work: You just wait. Take the time, invest it in a good understanding of basic vim commands... |
| 15:56.22 | sargun_work | Actually, nano can be quite useful if you collect a bunch of patches + learn all the key bindings |
| 15:56.24 | fozzmoo | It won't be long, but soon you'll be flying. |
| 15:56.24 | redbeard2 | sargun_work: dude, we did nano on monday. |
| 15:56.29 | sargun_work | Today is? |
| 15:56.32 | sargun_work | wednesday! |
| 15:56.38 | sargun_work | emcnabb didn't cover nano |
| 15:56.42 | sargun_work | he only did vim |
| 15:56.46 | sargun_work | :-( |
| 15:56.48 | fozzmoo | Good. |
| 15:56.51 | redbeard2 | sargun_work: wait... are you saying you're using vim bindings in nano? now that _is_ interesting |
| 15:57.09 | sargun_work | redbeard2, No, but you can do anything you can do with VIM in nano |
| 15:57.13 | sargun_work | its just a hotkey |
| 15:57.21 | sargun_work | that you use to activate certain things |
| 15:57.31 | sargun_work | and not ALL, but many of the things |
| 15:57.34 | sargun_work | like yank/put. |
| 15:57.35 | fozzmoo | sargun_work: That's a pretty broad statement. |
| 15:57.42 | sargun_work | etc. |
| 15:57.55 | sargun_work | I wonder if there any emacs users here |
| 15:58.03 | fozzmoo | a couple. |
| 15:58.57 | levi | I'm an emacs user. |
| 15:59.06 | redbeard2 | sargun_work: you took the 033 from emcnabb? |
| 15:59.34 | goozbach | sargun_work: I want to see you replace the 3rd charater in each row between 4-13 inclusive with a lowercase "r" with one command in nano |
| 16:00.02 | sargun_work | yeah |
| 16:00.09 | sargun_work | It was his first class ever tkane. |
| 16:00.21 | sargun_work | er |
| 16:00.25 | sargun_work | taught. |
| 16:01.30 | goozbach | munin rocks |
| 16:01.37 | fozzmoo | munin does rock. |
| 16:01.51 | goozbach | I'm going to be able to easily justify several new servers for our databases |
| 16:01.56 | fozzmoo | heh. |
| 16:02.05 | fozzmoo | Look. The pretty graphs said so! |
| 16:02.18 | sargun_work | heh. |
| 16:02.38 | goozbach | "see, according to this graph all four slave servers are I/O bound. We need new servers with high power RAID and SAS drives" |
| 16:02.56 | sargun_work | uh. |
| 16:03.21 | sargun_work | How large is your database? |
| 16:03.28 | sargun_work | What format? |
| 16:03.42 | goozbach | several hundred gig |
| 16:03.44 | goozbach | Mysql |
| 16:03.47 | fozzmoo | Ewwww |
| 16:03.53 | sargun_work | Well, I mean backend |
| 16:04.02 | sargun_work | Put your indexes in RAM |
| 16:04.10 | goozbach | and it's averging 500 connections/seconds/slave |
| 16:04.14 | sargun_work | Nice. |
| 16:04.22 | sargun_work | How much does 16GB of RAM cost? |
| 16:04.27 | sargun_work | like $700 |
| 16:04.29 | goozbach | but the slaves keep lagging behind |
| 16:04.33 | fozzmoo | goozbach: I believe rbmello said it best: "MySQL is good for some things... like storing a grocery list. That's about it." |
| 16:04.40 | beandog | lol |
| 16:04.42 | beandog | thats classic |
| 16:04.49 | sargun_work | hehe |
| 16:04.56 | sargun_work | goozbach, stop hitting the master server |
| 16:04.58 | goozbach | fozzmoo: unfortunalty I cannot tell them no mysql |
| 16:05.02 | sargun_work | take it out of the load balancer. |
| 16:05.05 | fozzmoo | goozbach: I feel your pain. |
| 16:05.11 | goozbach | sargun_work: the master server is only a write node |
| 16:05.21 | goozbach | all queries hit the slave severs |
| 16:05.40 | findlay-w | ~power |
| 16:05.41 | ibot | somebody said power was for newer opie releases you need to have apmd installed to have a working power button. or see external power, or the derivative of energy with respect to time |
| 16:05.43 | fozzmoo | Fiberchannel SAN? |
| 16:05.48 | goozbach | I've already done almost everthing suggested in _High Performace MySQL_ |
| 16:06.11 | findlay-w | ibot's got problems |
| 16:06.16 | goozbach | it's a hardware issue now |
| 16:06.28 | goozbach | and now I've installed munin, I can PROVE it |
| 16:06.38 | fozzmoo | yep. |
| 16:06.58 | fozzmoo | Pictures speak about 1 ^ 10 * 25 times louder than words. |
| 16:07.18 | goozbach | I just spent nearly $30k on a network refresh |
| 16:07.30 | goozbach | oh yeah, time to upgrade to Gig-E |
| 16:07.51 | fozzmoo | goozbach: Definitely. |
| 16:08.06 | fozzmoo | Not gigabit between the masters and slaves? |
| 16:09.11 | goozbach | our network infrastructure is nearly 8 years old |
| 16:09.14 | fozzmoo | I wonder if that would help. |
| 16:09.28 | goozbach | it's all Cisco stuff, so it's doing "alright" |
| 16:09.35 | goozbach | but geez, give me a break |
| 16:10.00 | fozzmoo | I think that's the first thing I'd try. Just get an inexpensive gigabit switch between your master and the slaves. |
| 16:10.10 | goozbach | we'll be refreshing half our network before the end of the year, and the other half after |
| 16:10.25 | goozbach | fozzmoo: it's a bit more difficult than that |
| 16:11.01 | fozzmoo | None of your machines have gigabit NICs? :) |
| 16:11.35 | goozbach | I have to spend Capital money to buy hardware, so if I buy a "inexpensive gigabit switch" I have to justify it. and it's just easier--red tape wise-- to justify an entirely net infrastructure. |
| 16:13.11 | goozbach | sjansen: I had my first caffinated beverage of the week, this morning |
| 16:13.14 | goozbach | it felt good |
| 16:14.24 | fozzmoo | TCB: Tall caffeinated beverage. What's your favorite? |
| 16:14.36 | goozbach | mt dew of course |
| 16:14.47 | fozzmoo | heh. |
| 16:14.55 | fozzmoo | I like Diet Dew, but it's not a TCB. |
| 16:15.07 | fozzmoo | My favorite TCB has to be Sugar Free No Fear |
| 16:15.14 | goozbach | fozzmoo: bawls then |
| 16:15.31 | goozbach | I haven't had one of those in a long time |
| 16:15.55 | fozzmoo | I seem to recall Tene likes Bawls too. |
| 16:16.08 | fozzmoo | He was slamming them pretty regularly before he became a guru. |
| 16:16.22 | findlay-w | silly guys |
| 16:16.25 | *** part/#utah PelaoFeliz (n=PelaoFel@67.108.236.230) |
| 16:16.31 | findlay-w | real men drink water |
| 16:17.12 | fozzmoo | findlay-w: heh. I try to drink at least as much water as I do any "pop" |
| 16:19.48 | redbeard2 | i don't know what the big deal is. the first ingredient of any soda is (hopefully) carbonated water. |
| 16:20.01 | redbeard2 | that being the case, i drink tons of water each day. |
| 16:20.47 | fozzmoo | heh heh. |
| 16:22.00 | *** join/#utah TimRiker (n=timr@72.11.78.6) |
| 16:22.00 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 16:22.08 | findlay-w | but for the carbonic acid |
| 16:24.31 | findlay-w | haha: 'Hazards of Exploding Pop Bottles' |
| 16:25.25 | findlay-w | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbonated_water |
| 16:27.11 | levi | findlay-w: My stomach is full of more powerful acid all the time. |
| 16:27.34 | findlay-w | levi: well, don't fear for your stomach exploding |
| 16:33.08 | tensai | ~lart evolution |
| 16:33.08 | ibot | declares evolution a moron |
| 16:34.25 | tensai | it's crashed on me 3 times already today |
| 16:34.43 | tensai | actually, not crashed. it locks up the mouse so I can't click on anything or use the keyboard. |
| 16:35.53 | tensai | are kontact and kmail the same thing? |
| 16:36.35 | fozzmoo | kontact is kind of a frontend to kmail, korganizer, kabc, karm, akkregator, and a couple other apps. |
| 16:36.39 | fozzmoo | It's basically a PIM suite. |
| 16:37.00 | fozzmoo | A portal, if you will. |
| 16:37.56 | goozbach | portal? where |
| 16:38.06 | goozbach | orangebox doesn't come out till next month!!! |
| 16:38.12 | goozbach | don't fool me like that |
| 16:38.25 | levi | One of the last bastions of CORBA-style object integration. :) |
| 16:38.37 | tensai | fozzmoo: have you used evolution much to make a comparison? |
| 16:38.41 | sjansen | So I've finally come up with a sound bit to explain why Utah drivers are so bad. |
| 16:38.48 | goozbach | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Orange_Box |
| 16:39.09 | fozzmoo | tensai: Not extensively. I've never been able to get it working properly to sync with my Treo. |
| 16:39.24 | sjansen | It isn't simply because Utah drivers are aggressive. There are aggressive drivers in other parts of the country and I don't much mind them. |
| 16:39.38 | fozzmoo | I'm not a fan of GTK/GNOME UIs, so that doesn't help. |
| 16:39.39 | sjansen | Once you get used to driving aggressively it isn't a problem |
| 16:40.00 | sjansen | The problem, in fact, is that not all Utah drivers are aggressive. |
| 16:40.18 | fozzmoo | Keep in mind, folks. sjansen hails from South Dakota where driving is still somewhat of a novelty. :) |
| 16:40.28 | sjansen | So here's the sound bite: The problem is that it doesn't work well to mix aggressive drivers with passive aggressive drivers. |
| 16:41.04 | findlay-w | I still think that Utah drivers are just not intelligent and petty |
| 16:41.05 | sjansen | fozzmoo: North Dakota, but I've been in Utah long enough that I almost drive like a Utahn. The difference is I still use my turn signal most of the time. |
| 16:41.13 | fozzmoo | sjansen: Hee. |
| 16:41.28 | fozzmoo | You'll never be a true Utah driver if you use your turn signal! |
| 16:41.37 | findlay-w | ha |
| 16:41.44 | fozzmoo | Or if you make right turns into the right lane or left turns into the left lane. |
| 16:41.45 | sjansen | Everything would be find if aggressive people drove aggressively and everyone else got out of their way. |
| 16:41.52 | fozzmoo | Those are clear signs... you're not from around here. |
| 16:42.01 | findlay-w | lazy or encellphoned drivers |
| 16:42.03 | *** join/#utah Keighvin (n=ptomlins@kei.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 16:42.15 | Keighvin | ~whalecrit redbeard2 |
| 16:42.15 | ibot | ACTION crits redbeard2 with a mathematically skilled whale named Isaac for #NaN. redbeard2 dies |
| 16:42.18 | tensai | I'm a KDE user myself, so maybe kontact would be better. I tried kmail many moons ago and found it lacking, but can't remember exactly why. |
| 16:42.29 | sjansen | In Utah, there's a noticeable part of the population that firmly believes speeding is a sin and it's their calling in life to enforce the speed limit by driving 65 in all lanes. |
| 16:42.46 | fozzmoo | I used to be nervous about kmail because it seemed to be modeled after Eudora. :) |
| 16:43.04 | fozzmoo | It's the 11th commandment, sjansen. |
| 16:43.18 | neybar | I hate that commandment |
| 16:43.23 | fozzmoo | Thou shalt not let anyone else drive their car over the speed limit. |
| 16:43.24 | sjansen | I people would drively defensively instead of passive aggressively Utah would be a whole lot safer. |
| 16:43.28 | findlay-w | sjansen: I'm a fixed-speed driver. Does this pejorative apply to me? |
| 16:43.43 | mrpull | fozzmoo: isn't the mozilla group making evolution more like eudora now? |
| 16:43.56 | neybar | it is ok to merge into a slower lane. People seem to take some one going faster than them as a personal insult and then camp in the lane. |
| 16:44.01 | fozzmoo | mrpull: I haven't followed that whole development. |
| 16:44.05 | mrpull | fozzmoo: my faint memories are telling me that they got the source to eudora |
| 16:44.09 | sjansen | findlay-w: Depends. Are you aware that if you're driving 65 you have no business in anything other than the right left, or the lane next to it for short periods of time? |
| 16:44.25 | sjansen | s/right left/right lane/ |
| 16:44.32 | findlay-w | sjansen: I pass people going slower than me |
| 16:44.42 | fozzmoo | findlay-w: Wow. Really? |
| 16:44.49 | findlay-w | fozzmoo: rarely |
| 16:44.54 | fozzmoo | heh. |
| 16:45.18 | findlay-w | it's amusing to me though to see somebody zoom by and then a retinue of cars speeds up not to be outdone |
| 16:45.22 | sjansen | If you're definition of "constant speed" is 80 you're probably less dangerous than if your definition is 65. |
| 16:45.47 | sjansen | Because most people doing 80 are willing to slow down to 70. But most people doing 65 aren't willing to get out of the way. |
| 16:46.09 | findlay-w | this phenomenon is especially amusing when some dude in a huge truck comes by with another dude in another big truck trying to pass him both of them going 80+ |
| 16:46.27 | findlay-w | sjansen: I get out of the way |
| 16:46.30 | findlay-w | safely |
| 16:46.52 | findlay-w | I won't drop 10 feet in front of a semi just because some dude behind me is impatient |
| 16:47.43 | sjansen | It is wrong for someone with their cruise set to 80 do cross multiple lines and slip through single car length spaces to pass a person going slowly in a left lane. |
| 16:48.00 | fozzmoo | What is the deal with guys in tall immaculate trucks? |
| 16:48.00 | sjansen | But it's going to happen. Some people are reckless drivers. |
| 16:48.23 | findlay-w | sjansen: are you accusing me of slow left lane crusing? :) |
| 16:48.30 | fozzmoo | Tall Immaculate Trucks. There's a new TLA. |
| 16:49.06 | levi | fozzmoo: They are compensating for something, of course. |
| 16:49.07 | fozzmoo | I always tell my kids, see that truck? The owner has no girlfriend or wife. |
| 16:49.09 | sjansen | I place more blame of the idiot that won't get out of the way than I do on the other idiot. One's an idiot, the other is an idiotic hypocrite trying to make the situation better but actually making the situation worse. |
| 16:49.19 | fozzmoo | But I've been reconsidering that theory. |
| 16:49.43 | fozzmoo | I think it's either they have no SO or they are trying desperately to impress their children. |
| 16:49.51 | findlay-w | sjansen: well whatever your beliefs, I'm not one of 'those people' trying to enforce the speed limit |
| 16:50.33 | elg | sjansen: i think you hit the nail on the head, but I'd attribute less to the mix of aggressive and what I call "utah driver", and more to the just plain utah driver |
| 16:50.36 | sjansen | The other things that bugs me is people that have no idea what an appropriate following distance is. |
| 16:50.50 | elg | if everyone drove like a jerk, including visitors, nobody would notice what jerks everybody else are |
| 16:51.08 | levi | fozzmoo: I think some of them are in a contest of sorts with their neighbors. |
| 16:51.11 | elg | but people from intelligent roads come and quickly learn they have to drive aggressively or die |
| 16:51.11 | fozzmoo | sjansen: Yeah- I always thought the rule was don't get so close you can't see the bottom of the rear tires of the car in front of you. |
| 16:51.19 | fozzmoo | But I think some people have it backwards. |
| 16:51.20 | elg | and that's what gets us that mix you're talking about |
| 16:51.41 | sjansen | At highway speeds, 2 car lengths is not appropriate. Yes, people will cut in front of you. Yes, you can prevent it by getting closer. But you shouldn't. They'll cut you off even if it's 1 car length. At least if you're farther back you might be able to dodge the worst of the accident the other guys about to cause. |
| 16:51.46 | elg | technically you should try to stay 2 seconds back, whatever that means (it changes depending on speed) |
| 16:51.55 | findlay-w | fozzmoo: it's all about drafting. We're saving the world's energy |
| 16:52.07 | findlay-w | doesn't anybody think about the energies?! |
| 16:52.28 | fozzmoo | We waste so much of the roadway creating space between vehicles. |
| 16:52.37 | findlay-w | indeed, shorter roadways |
| 16:52.45 | fozzmoo | If cars could move more like one cohesive blob... |
| 16:52.49 | levi | Not allowing people to merge is what creates traffic jams. |
| 16:53.09 | fozzmoo | we could probably be fine with I15 being a 2-lane road. |
| 16:53.11 | elg | wonder how long this will take :) |
| 16:53.28 | fozzmoo | elg: When it's done, it'll be time to get a new laptop. |
| 16:53.49 | elg | it managed 16 bits in 5 seconds. but you're probably right |
| 16:54.15 | elg | i'm too lazy to run it for many values in between if it's still going at lunchtime I'll try 24 bits |
| 16:54.23 | elg | and then 20 bits |
| 16:54.24 | elg | ... |
| 16:54.37 | findlay-w | sjansen: but when somebody else comes up 3 m behind me I start to slow down (again for safety not for righteousness) and find the situation incredibly amusing |
| 16:54.57 | fozzmoo | findlay-w: I agree with you there. |
| 16:55.05 | elg | amusing or not, it's incredibly unsafe to slow down in the face of someone coming up 3 m behind you |
| 16:55.12 | elg | what's safe is getting the flip out of the idiot's way |
| 16:55.19 | fozzmoo | I mean, if someone's coming up behind me fast and flashes their lights to get my attention, I'll gladly move over. |
| 16:55.23 | levi | When someone tailgates me, even if I've got no room to speed up, I change lanes and let him tailgate the guy in front of me. |
| 16:55.26 | findlay-w | the idiot can find his own way |
| 16:55.29 | fozzmoo | But if they get close to me like that, they piss me off. |
| 16:55.46 | elg | findlay-w: as long as he's 3m behind you, you're in danger |
| 16:55.58 | goozbach | I flip a switch under my dash which turns off my brake lights then I slam on the brakes |
| 16:56.00 | findlay-w | I guess I'm talking about while I'm crusing in the right lane when the rest of the road is clear |
| 16:56.03 | elg | plain and simple. you know how the physics works. if you slow down, he's 3 m behind you for longer |
| 16:56.36 | elg | ah, well, if he's tailgating you for no reason when he could pass you, then slowing down probably is the best way to get him to pass you |
| 16:56.52 | findlay-w | I also try the fluxuating speed trick |
| 16:57.13 | findlay-w | that one's fun |
| 16:57.31 | elg | tailgating can be fun too |
| 16:57.33 | elg | you should try that one |
| 16:57.34 | findlay-w | heh |
| 16:57.38 | levi | Anyway, I hate to interrupt a good rant on driving, but I've been working on my idea for a programming languages interest group and have put up some notes: http://plig.jottit.com/ |
| 16:57.47 | levi | I'd appreciate any comments interested parties have for me. |
| 16:59.11 | levi | I'd also like to get a feel for how much interest there would be before I put too much effort into it. |
| 16:59.39 | elg | levi: although the word forum is technically appropriate, it's going to get sticky real fast |
| 16:59.56 | elg | people who like web forums (*spit*) will get their hopes up and the rest will whine |
| 16:59.58 | findlay-w | levi: looks interesting |
| 17:00.40 | findlay-w | maybe a wiki? |
| 17:00.48 | elg | looks like fun. especially like how you hope to piggyback on language groups presentations |
| 17:01.09 | elg | that should work well |
| 17:03.10 | levi | elg: Well, I did put in that disclaimer that I hadn't decided on any particular technology. |
| 17:03.33 | levi | I think a wiki might be a good place to start. |
| 17:03.44 | *** join/#utah brando1 (n=brandon@64.58.232.130) |
| 17:04.10 | levi | This Jottit thing is wiki-like, but I'd probably not want to use it so that we could make non-wiki stuff as well. |
| 17:04.30 | levi | I'm not as concerned about the technology as getting people to participate. |
| 17:06.18 | *** join/#utah tuxd00d (n=tuxinato@128.187.124.183) |
| 17:06.38 | levi | Anyway, if any of you guys have ideas, I can make the page publically editable. |
| 17:07.01 | findlay-w | levi: a hard thing I forsee is getting exponents of a particular language to engage in impartial dialog |
| 17:09.01 | elg | who says anyone will be impartial? :) |
| 17:09.13 | elg | just enforce the no name-calling rule (basic civility) |
| 17:09.19 | elg | except for php |
| 17:09.20 | elg | ;-) |
| 17:09.22 | fozzmoo | ;-) |
| 17:09.28 | redbeard2 | one of my students has apparently driven through utah once... and he wanted to know why all the air conditioners were on the roofs, instead of the side of the house |
| 17:10.01 | fozzmoo | Unfortunately, those roof-mounts are getting less effective. |
| 17:10.04 | elg | his question wasn't how utahns have kept from going extinct in utah traffic? |
| 17:10.09 | findlay-w | but if people aren't willing to listen or think critically about their own beliefs there will be little good discussion |
| 17:10.14 | redbeard2 | fozzmoo: that's what i told him |
| 17:10.29 | redbeard2 | elg: he drove through southern utah, not northern |
| 17:10.36 | fozzmoo | Makes a little more sense. |
| 17:10.45 | findlay-w | heh |
| 17:10.47 | elg | fozzmoo: how are they getting less effective? |
| 17:10.56 | elg | is the environment changing, or the laws of physics? |
| 17:11.03 | findlay-w | both I imagine |
| 17:11.03 | fozzmoo | elg: I think populated areas are more humid. |
| 17:11.19 | elg | why does it matter whether a swamp cooler is on the roof or in the window? |
| 17:11.20 | fozzmoo | Evaporative coolers only work if it's very arid outside. |
| 17:11.35 | redbeard2 | elg: scotty canna change the laws of physics, but utahns can. |
| 17:11.44 | Tene | levi: very interesting. |
| 17:11.52 | fozzmoo | So, more Utah homes are just installing central air. |
| 17:12.16 | fozzmoo | Not the home owners, mind you, but the homes themselves. ;-) |
| 17:12.17 | redbeard2 | fozzmoo: i told him that too |
| 17:12.26 | elg | don't forget global warming! in 3 years utah will be hotter than juarez |
| 17:12.30 | findlay-w | and using the energy they saved drafting on the freeway to power them |
| 17:12.40 | tensai | the reason for roof mounts is because cold air sinks |
| 17:12.40 | fozzmoo | elg: Of course. |
| 17:12.55 | elg | tensai: exactly |
| 17:13.05 | elg | the reason for side mounts is because it's an afterthought |
| 17:13.22 | fozzmoo | Or you're renting the trailer. :) |
| 17:13.25 | elg | so the real answer is probably because utahns planned in their swamp coolers from the get go |
| 17:13.48 | elg | the real question is why does redbeard2's student from houston have any preconceived notions about where swamp coolers should go? |
| 17:13.54 | elg | I don't think they'd work very well in houston |
| 17:14.02 | fozzmoo | Not this year. |
| 17:14.14 | redbeard2 | elg: he didn't know they were swamp coolers |
| 17:14.24 | fozzmoo | "Honey, I turned on the cooler and water poured in." |
| 17:14.29 | elg | central air is usually built into the building, no? |
| 17:14.40 | fozzmoo | elg: It's part of the HVAC system. |
| 17:14.51 | elg | not protruding out the side of the building |
| 17:14.53 | fozzmoo | Usually gets installed as part of the furnace stack. |
| 17:15.11 | fozzmoo | But central air does have a heat exchanger unit outside. |
| 17:15.20 | fozzmoo | usually just sits on the ground outside the building. |
| 17:15.23 | levi | elg: PHP-hating was my primary concern, actually. :) |
| 17:15.41 | elg | :) |
| 17:16.27 | findlay-w | why would you cool a swamp? |
| 17:16.28 | tensai | elg: side mounts are also more convenient |
| 17:16.34 | findlay-w | from the side? |
| 17:17.01 | fozzmoo | Some people like cold air blowing on their face and they're too lazy to turn their head up to face the ceiling. |
| 17:24.14 | *** join/#utah harleypig (n=harleypi@66.236.68.4.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 17:26.46 | elg | -chat waste time |
| 17:26.46 | brac | waste time on his own for the heads up. working on the device will be the only way I can suggest |
| 17:27.10 | findlay-w | -chat swamp cooler |
| 17:27.11 | brac | swamp cooler efficiency, you should examine your expectations are too rich for my work.... |
| 17:27.19 | Tene | -chat about findlay |
| 17:27.19 | brac | findlay was slowly born over the messed up my printing!' to 'Apple cripples their own personal scarlet V. |
| 17:27.49 | findlay-w | -chat Tene did |
| 17:27.49 | brac | Tene did |
| 17:27.53 | findlay-w | :( |
| 17:28.01 | elg | -chat findlay did |
| 17:28.02 | brac | findlay did it once but I have a common reaction to serum, food, insect stings or medicine, Received counseling of any movies that might change when they think it's a møøse! |
| 17:28.03 | findlay-w | -chat Tene |
| 17:28.03 | brac | Tene is currently on #utah (3h 48m 19s). Has said a lot more time, then you hear the heads off to buy expensive ones from chase bank too |
| 17:28.57 | bbeattie | Is the .name TLD official and as accepted as .com, .net, .org? |
| 17:28.58 | findlay-w | -chat inculcate |
| 17:28.58 | brac | inculcate is |
| 17:29.46 | findlay-w | http://www.iana.org/gtld/gtld.htm |
| 17:29.59 | findlay-w | http://data.iana.org/TLD/tlds-alpha-by-domain.txt |
| 17:30.15 | findlay-w | | grep -i 'name' |
| 17:30.34 | sjansen | Until I moved to Utah, I'd never heard of a swamp cooler. Not much point in ND. |
| 17:30.43 | sargun_work | heh |
| 17:30.49 | findlay-w | because there's no swamps there |
| 17:31.06 | sjansen | In fact, a giant piece of metal on the roof and a big hole throught the attic leading straight into the house is an especially stupid idea in ND. |
| 17:31.50 | sjansen | Which reminds me of another tip: winter is a good time to buy a house in ND. You can just glance at the roof and tell if it's insulated well. |
| 17:31.55 | findlay-w | bbeattie: see URLs |
| 17:35.12 | sjansen | Start investing now. When California falls off, Utah turns into a giant lake and Arizona is nuked, ND land will be in high demand. |
| 17:36.12 | sjansen | Of course, if the climate turns around all you land will be the first to be scraped away by a giant glacier, but no one said land speculation wasn't risky. |
| 17:38.32 | fozzmoo | heh |
| 17:42.44 | bbeattie | .name isn't a typical tld it looks like, it's more of a redirect service and you can't register lastname.name but rather first.last.name |
| 17:44.05 | RyanE | I think .name is a bit of internet land speculation. |
| 17:50.01 | bbeattie | ryane: Looks like that, more general public designed than internet connectivity designed. |
| 17:55.53 | sjansen | ~plig levi |
| 17:57.21 | sjansen | ibot: plig $victim is <action> ties $victim down and proceeds to explain the advantages of {perl,python,ruby,lisp,scheme,java,C,forth,logo,bf,pascal} |
| 17:57.22 | ibot | sjansen: okay |
| 17:57.26 | sjansen | ~plig levi |
| 17:57.27 | ibot | ACTION ties levi down and proceeds to explain the advantages of {perl,python,ruby,lisp,scheme,java,C,forth,logo,bf,pascal} |
| 17:57.59 | elg | logo whatever |
| 17:58.47 | elg | porcine ideas seem to float to the top |
| 18:00.42 | sjansen | ibot: no plig $victim is <action> ties $victim down and proceeds to explain the advantages of perl^w python^w ruby^w haskell^w lisp^w scheme^w java^w C^w forth^w bf^w elg^w pascal |
| 18:00.43 | ibot | okay, sjansen |
| 18:00.48 | sjansen | ~plig levi |
| 18:00.48 | ibot | ACTION ties levi down and proceeds to explain the advantages of perl^w python^w ruby^w haskell^w lisp^w scheme^w java^w C^w forth^w bf^w elg^w pascal |
| 18:02.34 | elg | 2306 seconds to crack 32-bit RSA |
| 18:02.48 | sjansen | not bad |
| 18:03.00 | levi | elg: This is on your MacBook? |
| 18:03.08 | elg | the factorization optimizations made a big difference. don't let anyone tell you constants don't matter |
| 18:03.33 | elg | for p in (2..n); for q in (2..n); ... |
| 18:03.42 | elg | that's the naive way. i'd probably go bald first |
| 18:04.11 | Supaplex | fungus: how's msn? |
| 18:04.23 | elg | switching it to for p in (2..n); for q in (2..sqrt(n)) |
| 18:05.05 | elg | i guess that's not a constant difference. it's O(n sqrt(n)) instead of O(n^2) |
| 18:05.05 | fungus | ick, don't even go there. |
| 18:05.05 | fungus | so pissed right now |
| 18:05.05 | elg | levi: ya |
| 18:05.05 | Supaplex | yea I'd be to. |
| 18:05.10 | Supaplex | ~qwest-- |
| 18:06.54 | RyanE | bbeattie: did you ever get those dimmers RMAed? Just curious, no rush. |
| 18:15.34 | levi | Interesting, Pat Eyler wants to work through SICP and help translate the examples to erlang. I just left a comment on his blog regarding plig. |
| 18:16.36 | *** join/#utah decriptor (n=sshaw@sshaw.fttp.xmission.com) |
| 18:19.24 | Tene | http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/09/926-is-petrov-d.html -- This is really cool. |
| 18:26.03 | tensai | Tene: I recall hearing a study where soldiers were put in a position to fire a nuke and most of them wouldn't |
| 18:27.44 | tensai | sometimes PB&J really hits the spot |
| 18:28.01 | Keighvin | I'd nuke for a PB&J |
| 18:28.51 | beandog | as long as I was in the bunker, Id fire it too |
| 18:29.03 | Keighvin | Fire the PB&J, or the nuke? |
| 18:29.16 | beandog | what was that one movie? war games |
| 18:29.26 | beandog | they wanted to replace the men because one of them wouldnt fire |
| 18:29.33 | beandog | so they got WOPR |
| 18:29.53 | Keighvin | Not because one of them wouldn't, because a percentage of them wouldn't. They only had time to show the 1. |
| 18:30.19 | beandog | I think he should have shot the guy. |
| 18:30.26 | beandog | That would have made the movie more interesting. |
| 18:30.30 | beandog | and needlessly violent. |
| 18:31.11 | Keighvin | Couldn't do it unless there was a scuffle though - failing to carry out orders is not usually a treasonous offence punishable by summary execution. |
| 18:31.33 | beandog | ah the good old days when you could use 20" floppies |
| 18:31.35 | Keighvin | If, however, he actively impeded the other officer in performance of duty, that would be a different story. |
| 18:32.01 | Keighvin | And get free phone calls for a paperclip. And there were still payphones. |
| 18:32.14 | beandog | a paperclip/ |
| 18:32.15 | beandog | ? |
| 18:32.20 | beandog | how did you do that one |
| 18:32.21 | Keighvin | He does it in that movie. |
| 18:32.24 | beandog | he does? |
| 18:32.30 | beandog | I dont remember that part |
| 18:32.43 | Keighvin | It used to be that if you grounded the mouthpiece it would short the circuit and process the call. |
| 18:32.53 | beandog | heh |
| 18:32.55 | beandog | thats awesome |
| 18:33.00 | Keighvin | A paperclip pressed through the mic holes and than touched against the chasis would do it. |
| 18:33.29 | bbeattie | ryane: I tried to /msg you.. I was told they would be but I haven't been able to meet up to get them exchanged yet, I hope in the next week to have it done. BTW, the serial cable was bad... |
| 18:34.03 | *** join/#utah vontrapp (i=fuglv@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 18:34.17 | vontrapp | i close(sock) my socket, but it remains bound |
| 18:34.24 | vontrapp | is there something else i should do? |
| 18:35.39 | elg | close(shoe) |
| 18:36.03 | beandog | heh |
| 18:36.29 | elg | are you checking to see that close succeeded ? |
| 18:36.33 | vontrapp | stop listening maybe? |
| 18:37.06 | macnewbold | sometimes there is a timeout on a released socket before you can grab it again, but I don't know the details |
| 18:37.30 | vontrapp | can't i say "release now!"? |
| 18:37.52 | vontrapp | if my program is exiting, and i _know_ i'm really really done with it |
| 18:37.59 | elg | macnewbold: perhaps, but I think he's working on the same timescale as /etc/init.d/apache restart |
| 18:38.09 | elg | nobody complains about not being able to restart listening daemons |
| 18:38.16 | elg | so he must be missing some cleanup step |
| 18:38.23 | macnewbold | possibly |
| 18:39.32 | elg | vontrapp: perhaps data is still waiting to be read from that socket |
| 18:40.22 | vontrapp | well, nothing is sent |
| 18:40.35 | vontrapp | unless telnet sends something when it first connects |
| 18:40.54 | elg | wait, is telnet staying connected? |
| 18:41.25 | elg | you'll have to disconnect your client |
| 18:41.40 | elg | (you can probably do that from the server, but if telnet doesn't complain about having disconnected you ain't) |
| 18:42.09 | vontrapp | telnet disconnects when the connection is closed |
| 18:42.14 | vontrapp | (when the socket is closed) |
| 18:42.27 | elg | hm, ok |
| 18:45.46 | elg | try doing it in irb: |
| 18:45.59 | elg | 10.times {s = TCPServer.new('localhost',1982); s.close} |
| 18:46.05 | elg | oh, require 'socket' first |
| 18:46.13 | elg | it works for me, on my mac |
| 18:47.01 | elg | are you not closing the connection maybe? (the fd returned from accept(2)) |
| 18:47.32 | *** part/#utah elg (n=fugalh@dhcp19.cs.nmsu.edu) |
| 18:47.35 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@dhcp19.cs.nmsu.edu) |
| 18:51.05 | sargun_work | that's python? |
| 18:51.14 | sargun_work | er |
| 18:51.15 | sargun_work | not. |
| 18:51.30 | sargun_work | what language? |
| 18:52.43 | dataw0lf | ruby? |
| 18:54.44 | vontrapp | elg: i'm closing that, too |
| 18:54.50 | vontrapp | i close it first |
| 19:11.29 | brasto | so, if I start a channel in irc.freenode.net and I want to invite good ol' j/ibot in, how can I do it? |
| 19:11.57 | fozzmoo | j/ibot has to run on someone's computer somewhere. |
| 19:12.12 | fozzmoo | So... you could do both- host your own bot and create a channel. |
| 19:12.47 | *** join/#utah decriptor (n=sshaw@sshaw.fttp.xmission.com) |
| 19:12.59 | goozbach | brasto: you have to talk to timriker |
| 19:15.42 | *** join/#utah tuxd00d (n=tuxinato@128.187.124.183) |
| 19:19.03 | *** join/#utah TimRiker (n=timr@h460764e7.area7.spcsdns.net) |
| 19:19.03 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 19:19.57 | goozbach | brasto: ask and thou will recieve |
| 19:21.18 | Keighvin | goozbach: your queen's english is harsh. |
| 19:38.50 | sjansen | heh, so looks like one of the KVM developers just discovered there was a Google Summer of Code project to port KVM to FreeBSD. |
| 19:39.33 | sjansen | Problem is: 1) Shouldn't a core developer know that a feature is being added. 2) It was probably a waste of time because of licensing. |
| 19:39.59 | sjansen | Looks like just about anyone can claim to be a mentor can Google isn't checking too hard. |
| 19:40.07 | sjansen | If anyone can be a mentor... I'd like to officially announce that I'm willing to mentor any and all projects with any software so long as 1) The student never ask me anything. 2) I get a cut of the money. |
| 19:43.53 | fozzmoo | That's not mentoring. That's just annoying! |
| 19:45.58 | sjansen | fozzmoo: Fine! Find your own mentor then! |
| 19:46.16 | herlo | ~lart sjansen |
| 19:46.16 | ibot | gives sjansen a good seeing to |
| 19:46.20 | Tene | sjansen: you forgot 3) no paperwork. |
| 20:07.08 | levi | I think a locally-run gmane-like system would be just about perfect. |
| 20:07.38 | levi | web forum people get their web interface, email people get email, and newsgroup people get a newsgroup. |
| 20:09.07 | fozzmoo | For plug e-mail, you mean? |
| 20:09.11 | elg | plig |
| 20:09.13 | fozzmoo | or what? |
| 20:09.26 | elg | -urls levi |
| 20:09.26 | brac | incorrect usage, ask for help using 'brac: help urls' |
| 20:09.28 | elg | -urls |
| 20:09.28 | brac | [2007/09/26 12:19:29] <Tene> http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/09/926-is-petrov-d.html |
| 20:09.28 | brac | [2007/09/26 11:29:59] <findlay-w> http://data.iana.org/TLD/tlds-alpha-by-domain.txt |
| 20:09.28 | brac | [2007/09/26 11:29:47] <findlay-w> http://www.iana.org/gtld/gtld.htm |
| 20:09.28 | brac | [2007/09/26 10:57:40] <levi> http://plig.jottit.com/ |
| 20:09.58 | *** join/#utah jayce (n=jayce@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 20:09.58 | *** mode/#utah [+o jayce] by ChanServ |
| 20:09.59 | fozzmoo | Ahhh. PLIG |
| 20:09.59 | *** topic/#utah by elg -> The channel for content free discussion in Utah | http://plug.org/irc | PLIG RFC: http://plig.jottit.com/ |
| 20:10.03 | fozzmoo | I was off by one letter. |
| 20:10.07 | *** join/#utah jalance_ (n=jalance@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 20:10.16 | fozzmoo | ~lart jayce |
| 20:10.16 | ibot | farts in jayce's general direction |
| 20:11.40 | sjansen | ~plig fozzmoo |
| 20:11.41 | ibot | ACTION ties fozzmoo down and proceeds to explain the advantages of perl^w python^w ruby^w haskell^w lisp^w scheme^w java^w C^w forth^w bf^w elg^w pascal |
| 20:12.13 | fozzmoo | But ^w assumes I use Emacs. |
| 20:12.36 | Tene | fozzmoo: works fine in vim, too. |
| 20:12.52 | fozzmoo | I have a problem with the general notion of "overcoming bias" |
| 20:13.04 | Tene | That's okay. It's still a really cool article. |
| 20:13.13 | elg | in soviet russia, bias overcomes you |
| 20:13.33 | elg | levi: Maybe a cross between a pig and a llama |
| 20:15.28 | levi | elg: That sounds... interesting. |
| 20:16.03 | elg | maybe that artist guy on openclue will draw us one |
| 20:16.20 | levi | Yeah, that'd be nifty. He's pretty good. |
| 20:16.33 | fozzmoo | Brandon? |
| 20:16.41 | levi | Sounds familiar. |
| 20:16.44 | elg | fozzmoo volunteers to ask him |
| 20:17.09 | fozzmoo | I just did. |
| 20:17.17 | fozzmoo | (02:15:00 PM) Brandon Dayton: ha ha |
| 20:18.01 | fozzmoo | (02:15:39 PM) Brandon Dayton: there was a time when I would have done it in exchange for help setting up my mythtv |
| 20:18.10 | fozzmoo | (02:15:50 PM) Brandon Dayton: but I figured out how to do it myself so... |
| 20:18.33 | levi | Tene: I like the article there on Occam's Razor so far. |
| 20:18.47 | elg | surely someone can arrange to mess up his mythtv setup |
| 20:19.05 | elg | then he'll need help again. it'll be perfect |
| 20:19.26 | levi | Well, I won't try to wrangle someone into volunteering when they're not really interested. |
| 20:19.38 | fozzmoo | (02:16:50 PM) Brandon Dayton: maybe I'll bust out a quick sketch and throw it on my blog |
| 20:20.23 | fozzmoo | (02:18:00 PM) Brandon Dayton: I better do this sketch quick. |
| 20:20.49 | elg | we could make harleyplig our mascot |
| 20:20.59 | Tene | Heh. |
| 20:21.54 | fozzmoo | (02:19:32 PM) Brandon Dayton: too bad there's not an emoticon with nervous sweating |
| 20:22.23 | elg | 8:-/ |
| 20:22.50 | elg | but that looks more like a ferengi or a swimmer with his goggles on his forehead |
| 20:25.54 | elg | oops. he sketched jayce^ out of existence |
| 20:27.01 | fozzmoo | (02:24:19 PM) Brandon Dayton: check out open source planet tonight. I'll try and post something. |
| 20:27.10 | levi | Cool. :) |
| 20:30.22 | RyanE | now *that* is service, people. |
| 20:34.48 | *** join/#utah TimRiker (n=timr@216.49.181.128) |
| 20:34.48 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 20:36.37 | Tene | http://i7.tinypic.com/5z6vt4n.jpg |
| 20:39.00 | fozzmoo | Tene: Wassat? |
| 20:41.01 | bbeattie | ryane: did you get my /msg? |
| 20:41.26 | *** join/#utah vontrapp (n=von@70.102.163.132) |
| 20:41.40 | TimRiker | rtsp://168.177.204.17:554/broadcast/roomW125.rm |
| 20:41.51 | RyanE | bbeattie: nope. |
| 20:42.03 | RyanE | bbeattie: I don't know why, I sent you a /msg as well, asking about the serial cable. |
| 20:42.04 | TimRiker | real feed of the legislative meeting on municipal broadband. |
| 20:42.18 | levi | TimRiker: Which meeting was this? |
| 20:45.35 | RyanE | bbeattie: do you have IM? |
| 20:45.51 | bbeattie | ryane: yes, morphideous on yahoo, aol, msn.. |
| 20:47.09 | vontrapp | you need to be registered with nickserv to do pm |
| 20:54.22 | Tene | fozzmoo: just a spoof, afaik. |
| 20:55.11 | *** join/#utah Det3 (n=proteus@c-71-195-228-51.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 20:55.33 | Det3 | Damn, I should /list more often |
| 20:56.16 | fozzmoo | Det3: Wyzat? |
| 20:59.18 | Det3 | Heh, not that fozz is here anymore, but because I didn't see a #utah on freenode. |
| 20:59.28 | Det3 | For some reason I remember it being on EFnet or Undernet. |
| 20:59.38 | levi | Nope, it's right here! |
| 20:59.48 | levi | Welcome to #utah. |
| 20:59.51 | atoponce | there is a #utah on undernet |
| 20:59.58 | atoponce | although it's not as cool |
| 21:00.31 | Det3 | Heh. Why, they don't have acolytes from the holy order of the penguin there? |
| 21:01.05 | Det3 | Okay, crazy question time. Is anyone in here old-school enough to have been on lower lights? |
| 21:01.23 | levi | Yup. |
| 21:01.30 | Det3 | wow. |
| 21:01.33 | RyanE | apparently not. |
| 21:01.38 | RyanE | is that some Utah BBS? |
| 21:01.44 | levi | Yeah. |
| 21:01.48 | Det3 | Yep, one of the largest back in the day. |
| 21:01.55 | levi | I was 'Hedgehog' |
| 21:01.56 | Det3 | Had what, 64 lines or something like that at its peak. |
| 21:02.02 | Det3 | Heh. |
| 21:02.06 | levi | I went to a couple of the get-togethers. |
| 21:02.16 | sjansen | Back in my day there wasn't even a lower lights. We had to look up to dream of lower lights. Back then, all we had was subterranean-bedrock-even-lower-than-lower lights. |
| 21:02.18 | Proteus | <-- that was me. |
| 21:02.49 | RyanE | by the time I had a modem and PC, I was dialing into BYU's lines to get 'internet'. |
| 21:03.06 | Det3 | heh. Very cool. |
| 21:03.06 | RyanE | gopher and Internetted BBSes |
| 21:03.21 | Det3 | Don't forget archie. |
| 21:03.31 | *** part/#utah bbeattie (n=brandon@64.58.232.130) |
| 21:04.18 | levi | sjansen: It's a reference to lighthouses, actually. |
| 21:04.20 | Det3 | wow. |
| 21:04.27 | Det3 | Diversity abounds! |
| 21:04.51 | levi | And the dude abides. |
| 21:05.11 | Det3 | Yes. |
| 21:05.21 | Det3 | Speaking of which, I attended lebowskifest up in Seattle this year. |
| 21:05.39 | sjansen | 'Course, I had no idea what to do once I was there. |
| 21:05.43 | goozbach | I was on some old bbs I wardialed into for about a week, until my mom got the phone bill |
| 21:06.17 | mrpull | anybody else remember hacker's haven (sp?) ? |
| 21:06.55 | RyanE | mrpull: I remember Hacker's Haven, although I didn't frequent it. |
| 21:07.03 | sjansen | I also remember the day they added SLIP support. I was a beta tester for the BBS. Turns out the Web included graphics. Who knew? |
| 21:07.12 | mrpull | that is the only bbs that I remember the name of |
| 21:07.16 | Det3 | Wow... hacker's haven. |
| 21:07.18 | Det3 | Damn. |
| 21:07.19 | RyanE | SLIP support was the roxxxer. |
| 21:07.31 | atoponce | ~language Det3 |
| 21:07.32 | ibot | ACTION grabs Det3 by the ear and washes Det3's mouth out with soap |
| 21:07.40 | mrpull | but i remember a local computer magazine that had a listing of all the local bbs's on the last page |
| 21:07.45 | RyanE | I remember running zmodem to pull school files from BYU |
| 21:07.47 | sjansen | None of that wussy PPP stuff for us. |
| 21:07.58 | sjansen | Real men like there connections unreliable. |
| 21:08.17 | Det3 | wow... I got b0rked by fib. |
| 21:09.06 | thaddeusq | mrpull: It was the Blue Chips magazine IIRC |
| 21:09.27 | Det3 | Reminds me of this bit on bash.org where someone went into #christian and quoted numbers 22:21 |
| 21:09.32 | sjansen | Ah, SendIt, those were the days. |
| 21:09.52 | mrpull | thaddeusq: that doesn't sound quite right |
| 21:10.00 | Det3 | There was a bot that was programmed to produce bible quotes... and numbers 22:21 had the word "ass" in it |
| 21:10.19 | Det3 | in reference to a donkey... and the language monitor kicked the bible bot off the channel. |
| 21:10.22 | sjansen | For almost a year, nobody else suspected why the computer in the library was cool. Then they upgraded from 2400 to 9600. :-) |
| 21:10.49 | sjansen | Unfortunately, other people discovered the 'Net it started to get harder to get computer time. :-( |
| 21:10.54 | levi | Anyone frequent the 'Temples of Syrinx' BBS or 'All You Can Eat' BBS? |
| 21:11.00 | Det3 | Used to. |
| 21:11.03 | sjansen | Good thing we bought a new computer a few months later. :-) |
| 21:11.17 | levi | I was friends with the SysOp. We lived in Dugway at the time. |
| 21:11.20 | Det3 | Also TWP, Graphics Connection - was a co-sysop on schoolhouse. |
| 21:11.33 | Det3 | Um. Sawed any phone poles in half? ;-) |
| 21:12.18 | levi | He wasn't really much of an anarchist, despite all the files. :) |
| 21:12.56 | levi | The extent of our anarchy was downloading warez. ;) |
| 21:13.14 | Det3 | Yeah, I know - but some friends he hung out with really knew how to frack things up. |
| 21:16.00 | goozbach | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeloN23PRrc |
| 21:18.05 | Det3 | Two more hours.... ejection pending. |
| 21:23.29 | *** join/#utah TimRiker (n=timr@216.49.181.128) |
| 21:23.29 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 21:23.58 | Det3 | Wait... Tuxscreen TimRiker? |
| 21:25.46 | RyanE | Det3: I think you scared him away... :) Yeah, same one. |
| 21:26.35 | Det3 | Sweet. I Freecycled mine 3 weeks ago. Had a lot of fun with it but moved on to my new project. |
| 21:26.39 | Det3 | Designed one from scratch. |
| 21:26.49 | RyanE | Det3: what does your new device do? |
| 21:27.45 | Det3 | RyanE: Anything I want it to. ;-) |
| 21:27.58 | RyanE | Det3: duh. |
| 21:28.24 | Det3 | RyanE: Actually, it's a front panel processor for a music keyboard I'm designing. It runs off of an ARM9 Processor that drives a 15" TFT panel. |
| 21:28.46 | RyanE | groovy. and ambitious. |
| 21:28.49 | Det3 | RyanE: Also drives about 100 encoders and 250 LEDs, and interfaces to the main unit via USB. |
| 21:28.57 | Det3 | It's only the front panel processor. :-) |
| 21:29.06 | Det3 | Now the main board, that's ambitious. |
| 21:29.30 | Det3 | I'm going to use either an ARM9 or a PowerPC as the base for that, with 4-5 Spartan-3 FPGAs on it. |
| 21:29.39 | RyanE | sweet |
| 21:29.54 | Det3 | So, I didn't have much time to work with the TuxScreen anymore. |
| 21:30.37 | RyanE | I was too cheap to buy a TuxScreen at the time. Now I'd just not have time to play with it. |
| 21:30.56 | levi | I haven't touched my TuxScreen in a long time. |
| 21:32.54 | Det3 | 'twas a very cool toy. Last thing I used it for was a recipe database system in my kitchen. |
| 21:33.20 | Det3 | I never did get IP phone capability though... that was a bit much for what it could do. |
| 21:33.49 | atoponce | levi: explain this plig thing to me. is this just an umbrella for urug, utahpython, etc, or another group for members to join? |
| 21:35.46 | RyanE | and a floor cleaner, all in one! |
| 21:38.41 | levi | atoponce: It's another group for people who are interested in learning/playing with multiple languages. |
| 21:39.52 | Det3 | Hm. Is VHDL or Verilog on that list? |
| 21:39.54 | mrpull | how long has sllug.org been broken? |
| 21:39.55 | levi | atoponce: My guess is that a lot of people in those particular groups are only really interested in those languages, while there's also a group of people who are interested in languages in general. |
| 21:39.59 | Tene | I keep thinking lately that I could probably benefit from learning various other languages... |
| 21:40.34 | atoponce | levi: so, it's just an rfc right now? any plans for a mailing list, etc? |
| 21:40.36 | Tene | Every time I start looking at other languages, though, I find myself thinking "Eww. I don't like this. I like perl better. Mmm... perl..." |
| 21:40.48 | levi | Det3: There's no fixed list. It was intended to be software programming languages, but I don't think there's reason to exclude hardware definition languages. |
| 21:41.17 | Det3 | levi: Interesting. I'll contribute should it get into HDLs. |
| 21:41.24 | Tene | Except hq9+. hq9+ is awesome. |
| 21:42.04 | levi | Det3: I envision it as a place where people interested in languages can get together and talk about them and play with them. Hopefully people with experience will help those who are interested in learning, etc. |
| 21:42.25 | Det3 | Sweet. |
| 21:42.50 | levi | There aren't a whole lot of languages that currently have a user base large enough to warrant dedicated groups, and someone interested in several of them would quickly run out of time to attend meetings and such. |
| 21:43.25 | Det3 | Start with lex and yacc. Then everyone can parse the grammar in their heads. heheheheh. |
| 21:43.32 | Tene | A conversationg I'm really interested in having is one on how to overcome my perlish bias. |
| 21:43.43 | Tene | "conversation" |
| 21:43.47 | levi | Though I hope that, as people experience languages that have established groups, they'll start attending the meetings of those they're most interested in. |
| 21:43.48 | atoponce | levi: so, how does one "join"? |
| 21:44.07 | Det3 | Easy - hand-assemble opcodes from a CPU manual for about a month. Everything will look like a ray of sunshine after that. |
| 21:44.40 | levi | atoponce: Well, I've only had the ideas down on virtual paper for a couple of days. One will join by participating, once infrastructure is set up. |
| 21:44.45 | Tene | So... #plig? |
| 21:45.14 | atoponce | well, i'm interested |
| 21:45.21 | *** join/#utah beandog (n=steve@gentoo/developer/beandog) |
| 21:45.30 | levi | atoponce: I wanted to gauge interest before putting a lot of effort into infrastructure. |
| 21:47.52 | levi | I just /joined #plig, if anyone else wants to discuss things there. |
| 21:48.53 | goozbach | redbeard2: http://www.boredstop.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=166&Itemid=33 |
| 21:48.54 | brac | [BoredStop.com - Amazing Cake Art] |
| 21:53.37 | *** join/#utah Peregrinus (n=lamontp@class1-nat.gurulabs.com) |
| 21:55.38 | Peregrinus | sontek: Here I am. Are you on here too? |
| 21:57.41 | goozbach | ~pat Peregrinus |
| 21:57.42 | ibot | ACTION pats Peregrinus and says "Nicely Done!" |
| 22:03.03 | sontek | Peregrinus: hi! |
| 22:03.03 | sontek | Peregrinus: now stay here :D |
| 22:03.03 | sontek | ~jump Peregrinus |
| 22:03.03 | ibot | ACTION scrambles up the nearest tree, screams, then leaps feet first on top of Peregrinus |
| 22:09.33 | Det3 | hahaha. |
| 22:16.18 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@dhcp19.cs.nmsu.edu) |
| 22:18.00 | thaddeusq | anybody know if Bind on SUSE Linux Enterprise Server is multi-threaded? |
| 22:18.56 | Peregrinus | Sorry, I don't know. You could go grab the SRPM (from either SLES10 or SL10.1) and check the spec file. |
| 22:23.16 | *** join/#utah fozzmoo (n=fozz@166-70-238-250.ip.xmission.com) |
| 22:29.19 | Tene | ~onjoin fozz |
| 22:29.25 | Tene | ~onjoin fozzmoo |
| 22:29.25 | ibot | onjoin for fozzmoo set by herlo on Wed May 23 11:01:34 2007: MOOOO! |
| 22:34.49 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@dhcp19.cs.nmsu.edu) |
| 22:49.06 | Tene | http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/paulgraham_1969_36533 |
| 23:00.55 | *** part/#utah brasto (n=brasto@out.lnxi.com) |
| 23:01.12 | beandog | does GNU have a calculator? |
| 23:01.16 | beandog | or do I have to install bc |
| 23:01.50 | beandog | or ... bc is the gnu calculator. |
| 23:02.11 | beandog | doh |
| 23:05.08 | tensai | oh man, it's been too long since I used dialup |
| 23:05.38 | tensai | I couldn't figure out why my phone line was busy |
| 23:10.22 | beandog | lol |
| 23:14.50 | Peregrinus | There's GNU Octave and there's bc and there's a reverse=polish notation one (don't recall the name of it ATM). |
| 23:15.33 | atoponce | RPN ftw! |
| 23:18.09 | beandog | rpn? |
| 23:18.16 | levi | Reverse-Polish Notation |
| 23:18.19 | Det3 | really practical numbering. |
| 23:18.29 | levi | Forth-style arithmetic. :) |
| 23:18.36 | atoponce | the way yoda speaks |
| 23:18.41 | Tene | I often use python or perl or pugs on the command line. |
| 23:18.41 | levi | 3 4 + |
| 23:19.15 | beandog | Im surrounded by math weirdos |
| 23:19.45 | atoponce | 9 sqrt 3 4 + * |
| 23:22.13 | levi | beandog: RPN is the way HP calculators work. |
| 23:23.08 | beandog | I never understood those either |
| 23:23.37 | Tene | beandog: numbers push onto the stack, operators pop numbers from the stack and push the result onto the stack. |
| 23:26.34 | atoponce | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse_Polish_notation |
| 23:31.00 | atoponce | oooh. galculator... didn't even know about it. sweet! |
| 23:31.20 | beandog | Tene, weird. |
| 23:31.43 | Tene | beandog: howso? |
| 23:31.53 | beandog | I dunno |
| 23:32.01 | Tene | Lots of people prefer that syntax. |
| 23:32.02 | beandog | weird as in interesting |
| 23:32.06 | Tene | Ahh. |
| 23:32.34 | atoponce | i can't get on TI or other calculators. i need my hp |
| 23:33.01 | atoponce | the main advantage? i don't neet to count parens |
| 23:34.28 | Peregrinus | atoponce: Is seems obvious that you never liked writing LISP. |
| 23:34.57 | levi | I love writing lisp code, but not on a calculator! |
| 23:35.11 | *** join/#utah decriptor (n=sshaw@sshaw.fttp.xmission.com) |
| 23:36.43 | atoponce | Peregrinus: i've never really given lisp an honest try |
| 23:51.00 | *** join/#utah fozzmoo (n=fozz@166-70-238-250.ip.xmission.com) |
| 23:52.41 | Det3 | ~language ibot |
| 23:52.41 | ibot | ACTION grabs ibot by the ear and washes ibot's mouth out with soap |
