IRC log for #utah on 20070909

02:23.14*** join/#utah tuxd00d (n=tuxinato@c-76-27-72-211.hsd1.ut.comcast.net)
03:03.11*** join/#utah klys (n=daniel@72.8.101.65)
03:04.04*** join/#utah Hearts|laptop (n=hearts@166-70-210-101.ip.xmission.com)
03:19.33elgwhy in the world would xhtml complain about <a href="?action=assignment&assignment=hw1&course=cs372">foo</a> ? (it says not well-formed at the second equals sign, but if I escape the ampersands the get url doesn't work
03:23.28elgah, semicolon to the rescue
03:45.34*** join/#utah SorenStoutner (n=SorenSto@mail.stoutner.org)
03:54.41*** join/#utah tuxd00d (n=tuxinato@c-76-27-72-211.hsd1.ut.comcast.net)
04:38.31*** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@216.31.27.110)
05:27.18leviThat wacky uncle_jesse.
05:27.56*** join/#utah fozzmoo (n=fozz@166-70-238-250.ip.xmission.com)
05:43.19levifozzmoo: Nope, didn't go to UTOSC.
05:43.32fozzmoolevi: Missed ya.
05:43.42leviMaybe next time. :)
05:44.12leviI couldn't take time off work for Friday, so I didn't sign up.
05:44.36maquisfozzmoo: since i'm too lazy to create an account to comment on your blog...
05:44.55fozzmoomaquis: Yes, you ARE lazy. It's easier than EVER to do that.
05:45.08maquisif you liked Founding Brothers, I recommend reading 1776 if you haven't already.  It's a bit longer, but also extremely interesting
05:45.09fozzmooI migrated the whole dang thing to Movable Type so people could comment.
05:45.29maquisfozzmoo: my website doesn't require any type of login in order to leave a comment
05:45.46fozzmoomaquis: MT?
05:46.00maquisfozzmoo: nah... my blog's homebrew
05:46.01maquis:)
05:46.42maquisdesperately needs a captcha, but it does work and comments can be made...
05:47.05maquisanyway, 1776 focuses even more on primary documents than any other book i've read about the revolutionary war period
05:47.06fozzmooI'm still a MovableType newbie, but I'll figure out how to implement something like that.
05:47.15fozzmoomaquis: Thanks for the recommendation.
05:47.21fozzmooRight now I'm reading The Forgotten Man.
05:47.24maquisthe author pretty much didn't write much except a couple connection sections
05:47.28maquishmm... never heard of it
05:47.46maquisooh.. looks interesting
05:48.25fozzmooIt is interesting. Lots of stuff I had no idea about.
05:48.33maquisfozzmoo: i think this is going to be my next book: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0767903579/ref=wl_it_dp/002-1085886-0943259?ie=UTF8&coliid=IY0PSP7TOPQK&colid=7IH1W97SIC9N
05:49.53fozzmoohuh.
06:20.46*** part/#utah jbellis (n=jbellis@69.60.124.247)
06:31.09*** join/#utah Sargun (n=Sargun@atarack/staff/sargun)
06:48.34*** join/#utah Lakshmi (n=chatzill@adsl-69-109-118-247.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net)
06:50.58*** part/#utah fozzmoo (n=fozz@166-70-238-250.ip.xmission.com)
07:12.59*** join/#utah bonez44 (n=scott@c-24-10-147-163.hsd1.ut.comcast.net)
07:14.10bonez44how does one set an environment variable? for example, I am trying to get jpilot set up at home here....the README says I want $PILOTPORT set, which will make my USB connected interface work... ????
07:17.42Lakshmihey
08:17.54*** join/#utah klys (n=daniel@72.8.101.65)
09:01.44*** join/#utah tuxd00d (n=tuxinato@128.187.129.156)
09:38.45*** join/#utah tuxd00d (n=tuxinato@128.187.129.156)
13:16.44*** join/#utah klys (n=admini@72.8.101.65)
13:56.38*** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@216.31.27.110)
15:28.16goozbachibot
15:29.09goozbachibot: goozbach is also more winningish than TimRiker
15:29.10ibotACTION burns down is also more winningish than TimRiker's house with an army of flaming Elmos.
15:29.25goozbachdoh!
15:30.05goozbachme gets bach tolistening
15:56.22*** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@216.31.27.110)
16:02.53*** join/#utah Hearts|laptop (n=hearts@166-70-210-101.ip.xmission.com)
16:20.41*** join/#utah Lakshmi (n=chatzill@adsl-69-109-118-247.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net)
16:41.17*** join/#utah silverserpher (n=silverse@c-24-10-244-10.hsd1.ut.comcast.net)
16:42.26*** part/#utah silverserpher (n=silverse@c-24-10-244-10.hsd1.ut.comcast.net)
17:32.17*** join/#utah Zelut (n=christer@ubuntu/member/zelut)
17:34.55*** join/#utah harleypig (n=harleypi@66.236.68.4.ptr.us.xo.net)
18:04.46*** join/#utah vontrapp (n=von@70.102.163.132)
18:15.15*** join/#utah vontrapp (n=von@70.102.163.132)
18:45.11*** join/#utah decriptor1 (n=sshaw@sshaw.fttp.xmission.com)
19:13.38*** join/#utah Lakshmi (n=chatzill@adsl-69-109-118-247.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net)
19:44.38*** join/#utah bmidgley (n=bmidgley@180.sub-70-219-36.myvzw.com)
21:04.22*** join/#utah Migs (n=Migs@75-162-146-177.slkc.qwest.net)
21:05.06Migsdoes anyone know of any FOSS email/collaboration suites like Novell Groupwise?  I'm looking at Zimbra right now (http:/www.zimbra.com) and wondering if anyone knows of others
21:05.34herlobunisoft.org
21:05.52MigsMeldware?
21:06.11Migsnice
21:07.20Migshave you used it before?
21:08.07herloMigs: no, but I did see an awesome presentation on it in May
21:08.30herloMigs: now that I think about it, maybe its not what you want
21:08.43MigsI'm trying to get something set up for a charter school
21:09.13herloMigs: it does email, calendaring, free/busy, reminders, etc...
21:09.22Migswe'd probably be using IMAP, and I want a decent webmail interface, with calendaring, alerts, etc.
21:09.25Migsyeah
21:09.48MigsI have to wonder if it would be wise to get something that actually has a support contract option
21:09.57Migsbecause I don't have a clue how to administer an email server
21:10.55Migsthat Meldware suite looks awesome, though
21:11.35MigsI'm still trying to convince the administration that Windows isn't the solution to everything
21:33.50*** join/#utah Newsome (n=sorenson@adsl-75-0-136-70.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net)
21:48.16Migsthis might work, too: http://www.horde.org/projects.php
21:48.19brac[Horde Projects]
21:48.25Migsin fact, we use Horde Webmail in our district
21:53.21MigsCitadel seems nice too (www.citadel.org) but the interface seems a little clumsy, but maybe that's just because I'm not used to it
21:58.58mrpull-xMigs: how many seats?  MS SBS might be a good option.
22:06.14tensaias a former SBS admin I have to say, gag me with a spoon
22:10.09*** join/#utah Lakshmi (n=chatzill@adsl-69-109-118-247.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net)
22:13.34*** join/#utah fozzmoo (n=fozz@166-70-238-250.ip.xmission.com)
22:21.21leviAgh, I have to write a bowling score calculator.  Twice.
22:22.42Migsuh
22:23.01Migsdidn't I just say that I'm trying to convince THEM that Windows isn't the solution to everything? :)
22:23.22Migsand I've admined SBS too in the past
22:23.27Migsso I'm with tensai on that one
22:24.07MigsI have to admit, though, Zimbra really seems slick
22:24.38Migswonder if we'd even need anything except the open source version.  It seems like they're presenting that as a must-have in an educational setting,but I'm not sure it is.
22:24.59Migspretty active forums on their site, too
22:25.15Migs"that" = a commercial version
22:26.00fozzmooMigs: Zimbra is pretty slick... too bad it's done in PHP.
22:26.13MigsThere's absolutely nothing wrong with PHP
22:26.19MigsIf done right, it can produce great apps
22:26.28fozzmooYeah, but chances are, being PHP, it wasn't done right.
22:26.34MigsNonsense.
22:26.38MigsI think you're just unrealistically biased.
22:26.47fozzmooOf course I am.
22:26.51fozzmooI don't live in reality.
22:27.05MigsI think WordPress is well-done, too, and that's PHP
22:27.08MigsSame with Gallery2.
22:27.35MigsI'm actually kind of wary of applications that AREN'T done with PHP.  But I like to look at the source code first.  I think that's often a good indicator.
22:27.56fozzmooAnother thing I've noticed about popular PHP apps is that the developers push features in front of security.
22:28.07SargunMigs, hire me as your district netadmin
22:28.24fozzmooWordPress has lots of features, but it also has had lots of security vulnerabilities.
22:28.32Migsthis is for a charter school I'm volunteering on
22:28.39Migsdon't know how they're going to handle paid techs.
22:29.17MigsSupposed security flaws have to do with the developers, not with PHP itself
22:29.26fozzmooRight.
22:29.37fozzmooPHP as a language has its own problems...
22:29.40MigsI wouldn't know if it's a common trend, as you say, but it would still be coincidental
22:30.01fozzmooI think there's a correlation. The language attracts people who can't program well.
22:30.02MigsI think EVERYTHING should be made in php, so there!
22:30.03SargunMigs, who is the netadmin at it?
22:30.13MigsWe don't have a netadmin.
22:30.17fozzmooMigs: Scary.
22:30.19MigsI guess you could say my cousin is
22:30.26Migsthe charter school isn't even built yet
22:30.37Migshence, we don't even have a network to admin.  We're still in the planning stages.
22:30.57MigsIt'll be open next August
22:31.28Migsthe district I actually work at, we already have a couple of awesome net admins
22:31.29SargunMigs, where do you work officailly
22:31.37MigsWeber School District
22:31.39Sargunwhat do you guys even do as netadmins
22:31.47Sarguni mean
22:31.59Sargunlooking at my old district's networking
22:31.59MigsI don't know everything the net admins do, because I'm not a net admin
22:32.08Migsthey're pretty sharp, though
22:32.17Sargunthose guys might as well been dogs.
22:32.24Migsour guys are nothing like that
22:32.31Migsthey're always finding ways to improve our networks
22:32.42SargunI mean spending $180,000 on a router per school
22:32.49Sargunwhere only two ports are used
22:32.51Migslol wtf
22:32.53Sargunon a t1
22:33.06Sargun(AT&T punches down to a switch, and they give you RJ45 here)
22:33.12Sargunand one a 10 BaseT
22:33.14Sargunswitch
22:33.17SargunHP switch
22:33.24Sargunwhich is actually a decent device.
22:33.28Sargunhaha
22:33.31Sargunnick125, hey hey
22:33.36nick125hi Sargun
22:33.50MigsI've been very pleased with the time I've spent in the Weber School District.  Our technological aptitude is easily one of the best in the state's K-12 public schools
22:34.11Migsplus we roll out all sorts of cool stuff that the other districts are still years off
22:34.37Sargunlike?
22:34.48Sargundo you guys do open peering/have IP space from ARIN
22:35.06Migse.g., live video streaming from the classrooms, completely online courses (at least the capability is there), and last summer we hosted a technology conference and had all these workshops for teachers.  It was a smashing success.
22:35.10MigsSmashing, I say.
22:35.17Sargunuh.
22:35.18SargunNigel?
22:35.21MigsI have no clue.
22:35.29MigsI'm not a net guy
22:35.37MigsI'm just mentioning what I know
22:35.40SargunNigel = smashing guy
22:35.48Sargunwhat do you have between schools?
22:36.02Sargunwhat's your netblock?
22:36.03MigsI think it depends on the schools
22:36.10SargunHigh school
22:36.21Migswtf, I just said I'm not a net guy.  But I want to say T3.
22:36.26MigsI know it's not higher than that
22:36.35SargunI assume you would know
22:36.36Sargunlike speed
22:36.38Sargunwise
22:36.43Migsnot between the schools
22:36.51MigsThe state provides us with an OC-48 line
22:37.09Sargunoh
22:37.11MigsI might have to double-check that.  Whatever it is, it's more bandwidth than we'll ever need.
22:37.18Sargunthat's all
22:37.20Sargunfor vstream?
22:37.33Sargunhttp://ws.arin.net/whois/?queryinput=!%20WCSD-5
22:37.34brac[ARIN: WHOIS Database Search]
22:37.35Sargunthat you?
22:37.37Migshardly anyone is even using the streaming capability I set up.  Still have to get the word out.
22:37.40Sargunbrac, shut up.
22:38.00Migswhy's it say Denver?
22:38.17Sargunthat's where the guy registered it?
22:38.26MigsI wouldn't have a clue
22:38.27Sargunyour in denver?
22:38.36Sargunwell that address seem familiar?
22:38.36MigsNo, Ogden
22:38.46MigsOgden area, actually
22:39.02Migsnorth of Salt Lake
22:39.13Sargunoh.
22:40.00SargunWeber Concrete Construction WHTWIN-WEBERC-TDSNET-NETBLK (NET-69-11-179-60-1) 69.11.179.60 - 69.11.179.67
22:40.00SargunWEBER COUNTY CORPORATION WEBER-CO33-40 (NET-12-174-40-0-2) 12.174.40.0 - 12.174.47.255
22:40.00SargunWeber County Library WEBERPL (NET-198-60-5-0-1) 198.60.5.0 - 198.60.5.255
22:40.00SargunWEBER COUNTY SCHOOL DISTRICT WEBER-CO82-36-16 (NET-12-160-36-16-1) 12.160.36.16 - 12.160.36.23
22:40.08Sargunthose are the possibly netblocks you guys are iun
22:40.16Sargunif your ARIN under *weber*
22:40.26Sargunif your ARIN under *.weber*.
22:40.30Migssee now, I don't even know what a netblock is
22:40.36Sargunoh god.
22:40.44Sargunits the space you can stick an IP address in
22:40.53Sargunlike do you know any of your ip addresses
22:40.56Sargunwhatismyip.com
22:41.04Migswhat's an IP address?
22:41.18Migshahaha
22:41.27SargunMaybe this is why my school was so messed up.
22:41.29Migsbetcha thought I was serious
22:41.32SargunYeah
22:41.35SargunI did for a second.
22:41.38Migswtf
22:42.05MigsYou're inferring too much, just because I don't know stuff outside the scope of my job duties
22:42.08nick125Yay I have blue brick!
22:42.13MigsI build front ends, and rarely have to deal with back ends
22:42.21nick125And reder-than-normal red brick!
22:42.23MigsAs far as networking goes, I'm a noob
22:42.49MigsThat's why they hired other guys to deal with that, because they know that stuff.  I don't,  nor did I ever claim to.
22:43.04MigsSo maybe you should stop being such a buttmonkey
22:43.22Migsnah just kidding.  But seriously, I think every district is different.
22:43.53MigsFor all I know, maybe our network guys are really idiots, but they do keep things running smoothly, and they at least talk as if they know what they're doing. :)
22:44.00Migsand they've been doing it for years.
22:44.23Migswhich school district were you in?
22:44.57SargunPleasanton
22:45.18Migswhere's that?
22:45.22MigsCalifornia?
22:46.11Sargunyes sir
22:46.27Migscool
22:47.19Sargun70 mill
22:47.25Migsboth state and government entities typically waste money
22:47.37Migswe're taking some steps to be more FOSS-oriented, but it's hard to get past the politics
22:48.30tensaiMigs: I guarantee you do not have an OC-48. that's 2.4gbits.
22:48.50nick125Anyone one here have a few minutes of free time that could give me some suggestions for my bzflag map?
22:49.05SargunA giant map saying Boom
22:49.16Migsand a big problem in our district is that there's a serious lack of communication between departments . For example, HR might buy application for job listing, then later they announce they want it integrated in our web portal.  Why didn't they consult us first before they bought it, or ask others if the product would be cross-integrable?
22:49.22nick125nick125.com:5154 if anyone wants to give it a try
22:50.04MigsI think it would be shared by every district in Utah, tensai
22:50.24MigsI'll have to find out, because we're getting the same thing at the charter school
22:50.45Sarguntensai, the state probably has an OC-48
22:50.47Migsor rather Utah Education Network is our ISP as well
22:50.57Sargunand each school either has an OC-1, or an T-3
22:51.01Sargunwould make snse
22:51.04Sargunsense
22:51.10MigsI don't think we have higher than T3s in any of our schools
22:51.47Sargundo iBGP between the schools with multipath
22:51.49Sargunand has T1s
22:51.50Sarguner
22:51.53Sargunhave T1s
22:51.57Sargunto nearest hop first
22:52.02Sargunand increase to fastE
22:52.04Sargunetc.
22:52.11Sargunsave on mileage
22:52.23Sarguneither have a GRE tunnel over DSL (crappy DSL too)
22:52.29MigsI've downloaded at 240 MBit/sec before
22:52.32Sargunand bond those
22:52.35Sargunas backups
22:52.40Migsso it has to be at least OC-3
22:53.07Sargundownload something from kernel.org
22:53.08Migsat least from my office
23:01.43nick125Anyone here a bzflag map developer? I'm wondering if there is a way to rotate a meshbox on the X axis
23:02.45*** join/#utah jsmith (n=jsmith@atelka.info)
23:03.04nick125I can't find a way to rotate it..other than creating a mesh from scratch
23:03.33nick125Which is a pain
23:03.39nick125But, I really want "bridge supports"
23:09.24fozzmooMigs: So, we have a Zimbra server at work.
23:09.41fozzmooI'm trying to figure out if there's any way I can sync my Treo with the calendar/tasks.
23:10.02SargunUhm.
23:10.04fozzmooI don't necessarily need OTA sync capability. I know that is available if we pay for Zimbra Mobile.
23:10.12SargunHire a defense contractor
23:10.20Sargunand lay siege on all microsoft offices
23:10.32Sargununtil they develop that feature for palm devices
23:10.53fozzmooSargun: Your advice is precious.
23:11.04Sargunthanks.
23:11.05Sargun:-)
23:11.06SargunI try.
23:17.37nick125Anyone here want to try my map and give me criticism?
23:33.00Sargunwhat URL again
23:33.01Sargunlost it
23:33.07Sargunnevermind
23:33.08Sargungot it
23:37.14nick125Sargun: Any constructive criticism?
23:37.22Sargunits pretty good
23:37.28Sargunsome more terrian would be good
23:37.32SargunI could nuke everyone
23:37.36Sargunwith laser
23:37.43Sargunno defense you had young skywalker
23:37.49Sargun:-P
23:37.56Sargunpossibly multiple paths
23:38.01nick125It needs some stuff on the ground
23:38.01Sargunbut I like how it was simple
23:38.05nick125I just don't know what.
23:38.05Sargunand not f'ing complex.
23:39.09nick125any ideas what to put in the center?
23:39.35nick125or rather, the ground on each side
23:40.19Sargunteleporters?
23:40.47Sarguncan you do scripts in BZFlag?
23:40.50nick125Sargun: Well, I think there should be something to help "protect" the teleporters. Or should there?
23:40.53nick125Sargun: Like what?
23:41.23Sargunwell teleport accross
23:41.31Sargunbut have a cylinder that you get trapped in
23:41.38Sargunwhen you teleport accross
23:41.43Sargunso you gotta hop out
23:41.51Sargunalso have a straight hole in the wall
23:41.56Sargunthat you have to jump over
23:42.01Sargunor it KILLS you
23:42.10Sargunand a maze underground
23:47.30nick125I was thinking of making something so if you missed the jump, it'd kill you.
23:48.24nick125But, I can't think of a clear way to do it so it's easy for the player to figure it out
23:49.43*** join/#utah Lakshmi (n=chatzill@adsl-69-109-118-247.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net)
23:50.16nick125I'm thinking of writing a plugin for the server that will add bots when there are few players in the game
23:50.26Sargunthat'd be f'ing neat.
23:50.39Sargunuh like a moat
23:50.43Sargunthat's 10 feet high
23:50.48Sargunbut transperent ?
23:50.55nick125how would they know it exists?
23:51.27Sargunword of mouth on the server
23:52.59Sargunwrite a BZFlag bot in python
23:53.04Sargunor template

Generated by irclog2html.pl Modified by Tim Riker to work with infobot.