| 00:00.19 | levi | (though applicative order evaluation can cause programs to not terminate that would terminate under normal order of evaluation) |
| 00:00.41 | levi | Are you asking a question? |
| 00:00.49 | klys | so, what I'm asking is |
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| 00:01.01 | klys | is there an implementation stint to functional programming |
| 00:01.17 | klys | is it hard to implement in a C-like grammar |
| 00:01.39 | levi | No, the syntax has absolutely nothing to do with it. |
| 00:01.46 | klys | ok |
| 00:02.21 | klys | go on |
| 00:02.27 | levi | Syntax is purely a user-interface issue. A way to translate text to meaning. It's meaning, or semantics, that I've been discussing. |
| 00:04.11 | levi | Anyway, I've covered enough to demonstrate a simple language that is sufficient for describign numerical algorithms. |
| 00:04.37 | klys | ok, your recommendation though for a real language |
| 00:05.09 | klys | I mean, with enough support to cunstruct something like paintbrush or file tokenizing input |
| 00:05.26 | klys | s/cunstruct/construct/ |
| 00:06.03 | klys | suppose I know someone who wants to start learning programming |
| 00:06.20 | levi | Well, if you want to do it functionally, I'd probably recommend Scheme or OCaml. |
| 00:06.28 | klys | or? |
| 00:06.57 | klys | I understand you expect the new programmers to make this distinction so I want to know what you're comparing scheme/erlang to |
| 00:08.22 | levi | Well, something like C or Perl or Python or whatever would be fine for procedural programming. |
| 00:08.27 | klys | ok |
| 00:09.17 | klys | now, I don't know whether scheme would compare better to smalltalk or perl. couldn't tell you if it's a scripting language or a linked language for unix. |
| 00:09.19 | levi | I don't recommend C for anyone new to programming. |
| 00:10.06 | levi | There are a couple of scheme implementations that produce standard unix binaries. |
| 00:10.18 | levi | OCaml does so, too. |
| 00:10.22 | klys | can they link with libc? |
| 00:10.52 | klys | I mean, can they call sigaction(), setitimer(), etc |
| 00:11.09 | levi | Well, the scheme implementations I'm speaking of compile to C and then use gcc to compile to object code. |
| 00:11.16 | klys | ok |
| 00:11.24 | klys | bigloo? |
| 00:11.28 | levi | And they provide a foriegn function interface to call C libraries. |
| 00:11.40 | klys | I favor bigloo because it's used for lout and sdc |
| 00:11.43 | levi | No, I mean Chicken Scheme and Gambit-C. |
| 00:11.58 | levi | I'm not sure how bigloo works. |
| 00:12.16 | klys | ok, I'll have a look |
| 00:12.56 | klys | generates c, java, or ms .net/mono, and includes an interpreter |
| 00:12.59 | levi | bigloo would probably work for you, though. |
| 00:13.16 | klys | what about it, is this an endorsement of java or what? |
| 00:13.40 | klys | I'm thinking java could be described as something different |
| 00:13.41 | levi | Chicken Scheme has a nice set of pre-packaged extensions and bindings to unix libraries, which is kind of nice. |
| 00:14.00 | levi | What's the fact that it can run on a jvm have to do with anything? |
| 00:14.35 | klys | what does java have to do with algorithmic? would you also call it, say, object... or meta... or abstract...something? |
| 00:15.00 | levi | I would call the jvm a virtual machine. |
| 00:15.05 | klys | ok |
| 00:15.15 | klys | pretty self-referential |
| 00:15.27 | levi | Not really. |
| 00:15.33 | klys | virtual |
| 00:15.38 | klys | virtual programming |
| 00:15.44 | levi | bigloo can compile to different target architectures. One of them happens to be the java virtual machine. |
| 00:16.09 | klys | so lessee, is there virtual in functional code too? |
| 00:16.10 | levi | What's the difference between outputting instructions that execute on a real machine vs. one that's implemented in hardware? |
| 00:16.20 | klys | library availablility? |
| 00:16.48 | levi | The answer is that there's no difference. You can compile the libraries for the virtual machine, too. |
| 00:16.52 | klys | is there a good paletter for... |
| 00:17.15 | klys | ok I can compile libc on the jvm then |
| 00:17.57 | levi | I'm going home. |
| 00:18.01 | klys | ciao |
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| 00:35.47 | mrpull-x | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:38.37 | klys | egcs-jvm |
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| 02:18.44 | vontrapp | ls |
| 02:18.44 | vontrapp | rm |
| 02:18.56 | vontrapp | any conference swaggers around? |
| 02:21.30 | levi | I didn't go to the conference, but I'm here. |
| 02:22.40 | jayce | vontrapp, just got home |
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| 02:27.01 | jayce | tensai, why aren't you down here??? |
| 02:27.24 | tensai | jayce: on call, vacation, scouts. too many things going on these few weeks |
| 02:28.00 | tensai | I wanted to be. redbeard was going to let me be his sous chef. |
| 02:28.06 | jayce | feh |
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| 02:31.11 | jayce | ~lart sontek |
| 02:31.11 | ibot | drops a truckload of VAXen on sontek |
| 02:37.41 | sontek | ~simpsons jayce |
| 02:37.41 | ibot | ACTION sends jayce chasing a rolling pink donut down the hill screaming, "its still good!, its still good!" |
| 02:37.46 | sontek | jayce: wheres your ^? |
| 02:37.53 | jayce | at work :) |
| 02:38.10 | vontrapp | herlo: mr sticker printer, if you could maybe get a bumper sticker version of the firefox poster? |
| 02:38.21 | vontrapp | and i never got a google pen, any chance there'll be more of those tomorrow? |
| 02:38.48 | jayce | vontrapp, think they all got put in bags.. |
| 02:38.59 | vontrapp | eh? |
| 02:39.02 | jayce | and as for the FF poster, we don't have the image for printing |
| 02:39.07 | jayce | (the pens) |
| 02:39.16 | sontek | the google pens ran out |
| 02:39.23 | sontek | so some bags didn't get them |
| 02:39.37 | jayce | but I know who you might be able to contact about suggesting a bumper sticker |
| 02:39.38 | vontrapp | lame |
| 02:39.47 | sontek | we only had 150 of them and we had 193 people attend so far |
| 02:40.04 | vontrapp | but i was there last night |
| 02:40.27 | sontek | you can have mine |
| 02:43.49 | sontek | I love stickers |
| 02:44.24 | jayce | herlo said he'd be printing some more.. think they went over quite well |
| 02:45.42 | vontrapp | what'd y'all name your thumb drives? |
| 02:47.36 | sontek | steve |
| 02:47.54 | sontek | you? |
| 02:48.21 | vontrapp | snowflake |
| 02:48.40 | vontrapp | it's white and ski season is coming up |
| 02:59.38 | sontek | http://mitchclem.com/nothingnice/242/ |
| 02:59.40 | brac | [Nothing Nice to Say - the world's FIRST online punk comic] |
| 03:01.28 | jayce | sontek, so what are you trying to say? |
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| 03:02.11 | jayce | itsafozz |
| 03:02.22 | sontek | omgz its fozz |
| 03:08.42 | fozzmoo | ;-) |
| 03:08.54 | fozzmoo | Or you can just create an account. |
| 03:10.49 | sontek | nobody likes openid ! |
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| 03:18.44 | jayce | goozbach, ooh, looks like herlo switched your time some, so you can attend my presentation.. |
| 03:28.27 | fozzmoo | What is spr's e-mail address? |
| 03:28.48 | fozzmoo | Ahhh. Never mind. |
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| 03:45.57 | herlo | jayce: I did? |
| 03:47.24 | jayce | herlo, yeah.. at least from the printed version, he used to start halfway through my course, and was a shorter length.. |
| 03:52.02 | levi | Whoa, bucky? |
| 03:52.29 | levi | Beats me. |
| 03:52.41 | fozzmoo | herlo: Is the schedule on the website the most up-to-date? |
| 03:52.49 | jayce | fozzmoo, should be |
| 03:53.01 | fozzmoo | herlo: thanks. |
| 03:53.02 | fozzmoo | ;-) |
| 03:53.34 | fozzmoo | jayce: Where is Nate Handy working these days? |
| 03:53.37 | Zelut | sontek: do I really have 90 minutes to be an ubuntu commercial? err, I mean give my presentation? :) |
| 03:53.44 | jayce | in the same cube as me |
| 03:54.10 | fozzmoo | jayce: Really? |
| 03:54.14 | jayce | yeah |
| 03:54.24 | fozzmoo | What does he do? |
| 03:54.33 | jayce | Zelut, thought it was originally a 45, guess we just need the space |
| 03:54.44 | jayce | fozzmoo, data analysis.. numbers |
| 03:54.58 | jayce | I write and run the billing, he reports them |
| 03:55.02 | fozzmoo | jayce: How involved is he in the Pentaho project? |
| 03:55.06 | Zelut | jayce: well I can fill the 90, just making sure. |
| 03:55.28 | jayce | fozzmoo, just a user, quite familiar with Kettle and some of the similar tools... uses the others but that's his real favorite |
| 03:55.32 | jayce | he'll go into that tomorrow |
| 03:56.02 | jayce | fozzmoo, it was us that actually caused them to start actually supporting a PG backend :) |
| 03:56.09 | fozzmoo | Niiiice. |
| 03:56.32 | fozzmoo | What are Pentaho and Kettle developed in? |
| 03:56.37 | jayce | Java |
| 03:56.56 | fozzmoo | Thought so. |
| 03:57.09 | fozzmoo | KnowledgeBlue has a BI suite built around Pentaho |
| 03:57.27 | fozzmoo | I call it the "Executive Unproductivity Apps" |
| 03:57.48 | jayce | yeah, we picked pentaho for doing out BI tools |
| 03:58.49 | fozzmoo | I won't be able to attend his session- same time as mine. |
| 03:59.04 | fozzmoo | But I'll make sure KB gets it on video. |
| 03:59.05 | jayce | ah yeah.. well catch him and he can fill you in better |
| 03:59.20 | jayce | yeah, saw that on your banner and figured you guys would want someone there |
| 03:59.52 | goozbach | fozzmoo: am I going to be on video? |
| 04:00.00 | goozbach | cause that'd be cool if so |
| 04:00.00 | jayce | ooh, and me? |
| 04:00.03 | jayce | :-p |
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| 04:00.13 | goozbach | I wanna be in pictures! |
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| 04:00.15 | fozzmoo | goozbach: If you're presenting in Fedora, I think you automagically get video'd. |
| 04:00.27 | fozzmoo | I coudl be wrong. |
| 04:00.36 | jayce | he's in FreeBSD |
| 04:00.42 | fozzmoo | oh. |
| 04:00.44 | jayce | according to the web schedule :) |
| 04:00.46 | elg | .ho |
| 04:00.52 | jayce | which was updated |
| 04:01.14 | fozzmoo | I'll see what I can do. |
| 04:01.31 | fozzmoo | They're kind of leaning on me a bit to decide which sessions would be best to record. |
| 04:01.44 | jayce | ~squish fozzmoo |
| 04:01.44 | ibot | ACTION squishes fozzmoo like a bug |
| 04:02.00 | jayce | how many more interviews do you guys have to do? |
| 04:02.09 | fozzmoo | as many as I want, I guess. |
| 04:02.27 | fozzmoo | See, I really wasn't involved at all with the video thing until today. |
| 04:02.40 | fozzmoo | Robb and Tiffany interviewed a couple people, I think, this morning. |
| 04:02.57 | fozzmoo | Then someone, Mike I think, told them I should find them people to interview because I "know everyone." |
| 04:03.04 | jayce | then you found out they were doing it and couldn't let it go :) |
| 04:03.14 | jayce | you know people? |
| 04:03.25 | fozzmoo | Tiffany wasn't really sure what to ask someone like Jared Sith. |
| 04:03.34 | fozzmoo | At that point, I think I might have said I could do the interview. |
| 04:03.34 | jayce | oooh, he's a Sith? |
| 04:03.43 | fozzmoo | heh. |
| 04:03.46 | fozzmoo | SMITH! |
| 04:04.08 | fozzmoo | My first interview was with Dax Kelson.... |
| 04:04.21 | jayce | need to finish touching up slides, but not sure I'll get it all done tonight :) |
| 04:04.32 | fozzmoo | I wasn't really sure how it was going to turn out, but when we were done Robb jumped up and exclaimed, "You are a superstar!" |
| 04:04.38 | jayce | lol |
| 04:04.44 | fozzmoo | Maybe he was kidding. |
| 04:04.44 | elg | lol. jared sith |
| 04:04.47 | jayce | man, musta really sucked before then.. |
| 04:05.25 | fozzmoo | goozbach: I know Tiffany talked to Lamont today... |
| 04:05.26 | elg | while you guys are having a successful conference, I was having a successful brick oven pizza party |
| 04:05.29 | elg | so there |
| 04:05.34 | fozzmoo | elg: You suck for not coming. |
| 04:05.42 | elg | i'd totally be there if I were in utah |
| 04:05.51 | jayce | I gotta say, you know it's interesting when we have plenty of python presentations, but the ruby users snubbed us for presenting.... |
| 04:05.55 | elg | but it's good to have a reason to suck |
| 04:05.57 | fozzmoo | It's not that hard. Just a hop and a skip. |
| 04:06.07 | elg | sucking without cause wears on ya |
| 04:06.25 | jayce | elg, just fly your little plane up here... |
| 04:06.34 | elg | i'd have presented on ruby, were I there. :) |
| 04:06.37 | jayce | or, flightgear it, then watch the videos |
| 04:06.41 | jayce | :) |
| 04:06.48 | elg | jayce: there you go :) |
| 04:06.54 | fozzmoo | If anyone has suggestions of people to interview, let me know. |
| 04:07.04 | jayce | the utos team of course.. |
| 04:07.04 | fozzmoo | I've asked Pete Ashdown and spr for interviews tomorrow. |
| 04:07.08 | fozzmoo | And I'll be talking to Clint. |
| 04:07.34 | jayce | did you get Phil Windley? or Thomas Welch? |
| 04:07.41 | fozzmoo | I didn't. |
| 04:07.43 | jayce | @TIM of course |
| 04:07.51 | fozzmoo | I was thinking about talking to Mr. Riker. |
| 04:07.56 | elg | let's see, you got jared sith, how about sean jedi? |
| 04:07.57 | jayce | dont' think thomas will be there tomorrow, but Phil might |
| 04:08.34 | jayce | Shauna from OSTC.. |
| 04:08.36 | fozzmoo | I don't know how comfortable I'd be interviewing Phil. :) |
| 04:08.43 | fozzmoo | He might turn the tables on me. |
| 04:08.46 | jayce | hehe |
| 04:09.11 | fozzmoo | What could I ask Shauna? |
| 04:09.15 | jayce | maybe jellis or matt harrison |
| 04:09.26 | fozzmoo | jellis? |
| 04:09.33 | jayce | about ostc, why it's helping the conference and what they hope to get... |
| 04:09.46 | jayce | Jonathan Ellis, in here at times, python guy.. |
| 04:10.05 | jayce | matt also was a python presenter |
| 04:10.10 | fozzmoo | My first question: "Uh... why Python?" |
| 04:10.14 | jayce | :) |
| 04:10.36 | jayce | Brad Nichols, his Apache sessions have been packed |
| 04:10.41 | fozzmoo | Saw that. |
| 04:10.56 | fozzmoo | Is he officially affiliated with the Apache project? |
| 04:10.59 | jayce | yes |
| 04:11.03 | goozbach | kinda wish I have gone to that |
| 04:11.14 | goozbach | but I wanted to see jared's presentation |
| 04:11.21 | jayce | yeah, I had to run around keeping things in order, so I missed most stuff |
| 04:11.29 | fozzmoo | If anyone sees Brad, let him know I'm interested in talking to him. |
| 04:11.33 | jayce | fozzmoo, you weren't in Dan's class today :( |
| 04:11.38 | jayce | that one was fun |
| 04:11.45 | fozzmoo | jayce: I Know! |
| 04:11.51 | fozzmoo | I feel awful about that. Even told him I was coming. |
| 04:11.58 | fozzmoo | I think I was interviewing Jared at the time. |
| 04:12.39 | goozbach | jah, je wnt de sto |
| 04:12.47 | fozzmoo | Anyone have an e-mail address for Brad? |
| 04:12.50 | jayce | ... |
| 04:13.53 | fozzmoo | BNICHOLES@novell.com |
| 04:13.57 | fozzmoo | Looks promising. |
| 04:14.31 | jayce | goozbach, got your demo/env ready yet? |
| 04:15.21 | fozzmoo | "Police arrest man found with $4000 in crack" -- Newspaper headline |
| 04:16.22 | goozbach | jayce: working on it right now |
| 04:16.43 | goozbach | trying to decide if I should use Fedora 7 or RHEL like i was going to |
| 04:23.03 | fozzmoo | Will my costco card count as photo ID? |
| 04:23.18 | fozzmoo | It's the only other card I have with my picture on it. :) |
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| 04:32.59 | goozbach | I should sleep |
| 04:33.04 | goozbach | I am tired |
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| 05:05.37 | Lakshmi | hey |
| 05:05.41 | Lakshmi | fozzmoo! |
| 05:05.49 | fozzmoo | meow |
| 05:08.10 | Lakshmi | sup? |
| 05:08.17 | Lakshmi | i got my laptop!! |
| 05:17.10 | goozbach | could it be? |
| 05:17.16 | goozbach | am I finished |
| 05:17.17 | goozbach | ? |
| 05:18.06 | levi | Nope, just fooling yourself. |
| 05:20.52 | fozzmoo | Oh. Some laptop. :) |
| 05:21.02 | fozzmoo | I just finished *my* presentation. |
| 05:21.07 | fozzmoo | So there! |
| 05:21.15 | fozzmoo | levi: Have you been around at UTOSC? |
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| 05:25.34 | fozzmoo | TimRiker: Are you really here? |
| 05:28.47 | TimRiker | probably not. |
| 05:31.47 | klys | someone in #debian wants a short explanation of nano/vi if there are any takers |
| 05:32.23 | fozzmoo | An "explanation"?! |
| 05:32.45 | klys | yeah, he's adding himself to /etc/sudoers |
| 05:34.26 | goozbach | well I am no longer working on my presentation, but I'm making my website presentable so when people visit it tomorrow... |
| 05:34.38 | goozbach | kind of "straighening up" |
| 05:35.20 | fozzmoo | klys: EDITOR=/usr/bin/jed visudo |
| 05:35.57 | fozzmoo | Oh, I guess taht won't work.... |
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| 05:36.15 | fozzmoo | Lakshmi: Great laptop. It kicks you off the Net randomly? |
| 05:36.35 | Lakshmi | lol no i had to restart the comp |
| 05:36.39 | Lakshmi | for itunes to work |
| 05:36.44 | Lakshmi | sorry.. |
| 05:36.52 | Lakshmi | but yeah no as of now i like it |
| 05:37.03 | Lakshmi | its a thinkpad |
| 05:37.18 | fozzmoo | itunes. Bleh. |
| 05:37.22 | fozzmoo | Thinkpad. Nice. |
| 05:40.32 | Lakshmi | mhmms |
| 05:40.36 | Lakshmi | cept it has vista on it |
| 05:40.42 | Lakshmi | so im wondering what ima do |
| 05:41.14 | fozzmoo | Lakshmi: Install Linux? |
| 05:41.24 | fozzmoo | Thinkpads are nice with Linux. |
| 05:41.30 | Lakshmi | thats what i was thinking |
| 05:41.39 | Lakshmi | trying to deceide which is the better of the two evils |
| 05:41.42 | Lakshmi | vista or linux |
| 05:41.56 | fozzmoo | Well, only one is really evil. |
| 05:42.03 | fozzmoo | The other one is just challenging. :) |
| 05:42.36 | fozzmoo | I'm goin to bed. Gotta have my best face on tomorrow. |
| 05:42.49 | fozzmoo | TTY'allL |
| 05:42.56 | Lakshmi | later |
| 05:59.11 | Supaplex | egh. irssi on openwrt has less features, and wiped out my config. so much for nickserv/chanserv. (until I recover the working copy off my dead workstation) |
| 06:14.29 | goozbach | methinks I done |
| 06:18.19 | Supaplex | yeh? |
| 06:18.46 | goozbach | ok not yet, i haven't done a handout |
| 06:18.55 | goozbach | I dont' know what to put in one. |
| 06:19.00 | goozbach | it's a tutorial |
| 06:19.09 | goozbach | maybe I should record a screencast? |
| 06:19.11 | Supaplex | on what? |
| 06:20.56 | goozbach | virtulization |
| 06:21.47 | Supaplex | ahh. for the gurulabs vmware setup? |
| 06:30.09 | goozbach | nope |
| 06:30.18 | goozbach | for MY presentation |
| 06:31.32 | goozbach | Virtualization using OSS 10:35 freebsd room |
| 06:32.19 | Supaplex | ahh xen. |
| 06:33.29 | goozbach | yeah, goodnight |
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| 13:38.45 | vontrapp | ~lart elg |
| 13:38.45 | ibot | offers elg some herring |
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| 15:21.21 | goozbach | mock fozzmoo |
| 15:23.38 | Tene | ~mook goozbach |
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| 17:02.35 | fozzmoo | !/join #utos |
| 17:02.36 | UtahBot | fozzmoo: Error: "/join" is not a valid command. |
| 17:02.40 | fozzmoo | yeah! |
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| 17:38.24 | elg | -join #utos |
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| 20:03.28 | Supaplex | ~lart qwest |
| 20:03.28 | ibot | gives qwest an extra strength ACME sleeping pill, sending qwest to sleep for 150 years, and awakening to seven strange dwarfs and a large apple |
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| 20:08.46 | nick125 | Supaplex: What did they do to you now? |
| 20:09.59 | Supaplex | we're talking about them at utosc |
| 20:10.20 | nick125 | Aah. |
| 20:10.46 | nick125 | Let me guess, there are probably 50 people saying they are morons, and 1 person who is unsure because he's a lifelong comcast customer? |
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