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| 01:06.55 | elg | tensai: ping |
| 01:07.03 | tensai | elg: pong |
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| 01:13.18 | levi | ping pong! |
| 01:22.47 | elg | tensai: I'm firing my oven again |
| 01:22.52 | elg | have been for 4.5 hours |
| 01:23.02 | elg | the last two of which the fire has been doing fine on its own |
| 01:23.05 | elg | way too much wood :) |
| 01:23.22 | elg | I think firing an oven should be easy, but an oven this small requires a bit more pyro skill |
| 01:23.24 | sinuhe | I won't be available the 8th for the Open Source Conference. |
| 01:23.36 | elg | otherwise it starves for oxygen |
| 01:24.18 | elg | but I've just about got it figured out. as soon as the wood burns down I'll stick the oven thermometer in there and check the heat retention. the outside of the bricks is 350° now, which means the inside is probably Plenty Hot™ |
| 01:24.50 | elg | but if it doesn't retain enough heat to bake some bread, I might have to consider insulation. I have some ideas though, mostly involving tinfoil, fiberglass, and duct tape |
| 01:27.35 | sinuhe | :-( |
| 01:32.18 | levi | elg: I want to build an outdoor firepit and oven now. |
| 01:39.39 | elg | fun |
| 01:44.46 | elg | be sure to consult me |
| 01:44.49 | elg | I love being consulted |
| 01:52.16 | levi | ~consult elg |
| 01:55.44 | elg | anyone know if it's safe to subject fiberglass insulation to 700°F regularly? |
| 01:55.57 | elg | not the facing (which will be facing out), just the pink |
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| 02:37.47 | tensai | elg: cool beans |
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| 03:29.02 | levi | elg: From wikipedia: It has no true melting point but softens up to 2000°C, where it starts to degrade. At 1713°C, most of the molecules can move about freely. |
| 03:29.14 | elg | sounds safe enough |
| 03:29.28 | elg | i wonder if the paper facing on the far side will still be safe |
| 03:29.52 | elg | how thick is that stuff? 3 inches usually? |
| 03:33.45 | levi | They make a wide variety of thicknesses, I believe. |
| 03:33.54 | levi | You want to make sure you don't compress it. |
| 03:34.36 | levi | I have some insulation protecting some rubber hoses right next to my turbo exhaust manifold. |
| 03:34.46 | levi | I imagine it gets pretty hot there. |
| 03:34.51 | elg | yeah, probably does |
| 03:34.55 | elg | how thick? |
| 03:35.10 | levi | I got some foil-backed insulation. It's probably about an inch or two thick. |
| 03:35.43 | *** join/#utah Sargun (n=Sargun@atarack/staff/sargun) |
| 03:35.46 | Sargun | hey hey |
| 03:35.46 | levi | It's been a long time since I installed it. |
| 03:35.51 | elg | i'm thinking, lay it over like a blanket, connect the pieces/corners with tin foil over the seams and duct tape |
| 03:37.56 | elg | well, 45 minutes later the oven thermometer still read 400° |
| 03:38.21 | elg | I had put a copule extra bricks in to suck up some heat, so I imagine that's good enough to make bread |
| 03:38.33 | elg | now if I can just get it that hot in an hour not 5 hours |
| 03:38.41 | elg | (I think I should be able to with firing skill) |
| 03:39.05 | elg | still insulation would be nice. I think it would heat up faster with insulation. and it's not expensive right? $5 or $10? |
| 03:40.00 | levi | http://www.gobrick.com/BIA/technotes/t19d.htm |
| 03:40.34 | levi | That page suggests filling a 1" wide space with fiberglass, so I imagine it's safe. I'd probably remove the paper backing, though. |
| 03:41.06 | levi | I haven't priced insulation in a long time, so I have no idea how much it costs. Couldn't be too expensive, though. |
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| 11:45.30 | redbeard2 | ~quote scox |
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| 12:34.43 | redbeard2 | ~quote scox |
| 12:40.33 | redbeard2 | Jayce^: dude, i've got a great tip for you on a penny stock... |
| 13:05.41 | goozbach | where's the elg? |
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| 13:28.52 | ^Migs^ | http://bldgblog.blogspot.com/2007/08/drains-of-canada-interview-with-michael.html |
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| 14:10.54 | jsmith | levi: Does this sound like your Fedora upgrade problem? http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FWN/Issue89#head-212bbe148a57583e9c8ddc2fee6d17e3189b15c9 |
| 14:15.35 | *** join/#utah cardinal (i=judevrie@nat/novell/x-8a4ac47b91c2ff32) |
| 14:16.53 | tristanbob | anyone interested in this? http://www.novell.com/offices/opensourcecenter.html |
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| 14:28.37 | tensai | goozbach: the elg has landed |
| 14:29.26 | thaddeusq | tristanbob: That's where the Utah Open Source Conference will be held next week. |
| 14:32.44 | elg | goozbach: pong? |
| 14:33.06 | elg | invoke goozbach |
| 14:33.14 | elg | goozbachify |
| 14:33.27 | elg | goozbach for president |
| 14:34.29 | tristanbob | thaddeusq: I know - did you see Novell is offering free space for small businesses? |
| 14:34.50 | tristanbob | goozbachalicious? |
| 14:34.53 | Jayce^ | yeah, part of why they are hosting the conference.. help people learn about the space |
| 14:34.54 | elg | tristanbob: will they let me put a brick oven in the free space? I could start a bakery |
| 14:35.03 | thaddeusq | tristanbob: Yes, did you see that they started doing that in 2005? |
| 14:35.25 | tristanbob | thaddeusq: nope - but perhaps it will help with my Linux business strategy ;) |
| 14:35.41 | tristanbob | elg: only if it is an open source recipe |
| 14:36.05 | elg | totally |
| 14:36.16 | elg | so open source people are probably sick of me telling them :) |
| 14:37.05 | tristanbob | I wonder if I could fork your recipe, perhaps with a four-prong fork |
| 14:37.27 | maquis | elg: do you have any particularly good whole-wheat recipes? |
| 14:37.40 | goozbach | now I forgot what I was going to tell the elg... |
| 14:37.49 | elg | sure, my wife is a whole wheat a holic |
| 14:37.59 | goozbach | oh yeah, elg, buy backingless fiberglass batts |
| 14:38.13 | goozbach | if a stray spark lands on your backing it's not a good thing |
| 14:38.15 | maquis | elg: can i get some? all my recipes are for white flour, but we're trying to move toward whole-wheat |
| 14:38.25 | elg | goozbach: see, but do I really want exposed fiberglass to make us itch? |
| 14:38.35 | maquis | btw, i just made foccacia this weekened... came out kinda low on salt, but i'm not sure why |
| 14:38.49 | elg | maybe because you didn't have enough salt. :) |
| 14:38.58 | goozbach | that backing is only "fire resistant" if it's placed in close proximity to some solid material (eg sheetrock) |
| 14:39.12 | elg | yeah I know it's flammable |
| 14:39.16 | elg | so are my clothes |
| 14:39.28 | maquis | elg: sure... but i put in the amount the recipe called for... |
| 14:39.38 | goozbach | elg: but you aren't putting your clothes on top of your oven |
| 14:39.47 | tristanbob | ...are you? |
| 14:39.52 | elg | :-) |
| 14:40.12 | goozbach | maybe an asbestos blanket...? |
| 14:40.23 | goozbach | often called a welding blanket |
| 14:40.25 | tristanbob | with lead paint |
| 14:40.31 | elg | well i'm putting my self and clothes on the ground in front of the oven, a far more spark-likely place than on top |
| 14:41.19 | elg | yeah, i came across those. they have braided ceramic ones too |
| 14:41.26 | elg | lots of blanket options, which would be nice |
| 14:41.29 | elg | but they cost more |
| 14:43.37 | elg | maquis: so what sort of bread do you want? |
| 14:44.40 | elg | sandwichy? artisan? with chunks of banana, chocolate, and rosemary? |
| 14:44.54 | maquis | elg: i like artisan bread... like... a nice country-wheat |
| 14:45.06 | maquis | and a standard sandwich-bread would be good too |
| 14:45.16 | maquis | i've played a lot with french breads recently |
| 14:46.06 | elg | what's your whole wheat tolerance? |
| 14:46.18 | elg | do you need to cut it with white or get a less pungent kind of wheat? |
| 14:46.36 | tensai | I do |
| 14:46.41 | elg | me too |
| 14:46.44 | elg | my wife likes it straight |
| 14:46.56 | maquis | elg: not sure |
| 14:47.00 | maquis | i haven't worked with it at all |
| 14:47.13 | elg | well, try 100% and you can cut in white flour without any real adjustment |
| 14:47.22 | elg | and vice versa, by the way. if you have a white recipe you really like |
| 14:47.30 | maquis | but, we have a wheat grinder now, and in a week and a half, we're going to the cannery, and we're going to get a couple cans of wheat to start working with |
| 14:47.38 | elg | sweet |
| 14:47.41 | elg | what kind of wheat? |
| 14:47.43 | maquis | elg: you really don't need much adjustment? |
| 14:48.02 | elg | whole wheat absorbs more water, and you need it to be a bit wetter if you don't like eating bricks |
| 14:48.05 | maquis | elg: i think we got a couple cans of red and a couple cans of white |
| 14:48.16 | elg | so you add more water. but if you go by feel that's not a problem |
| 14:48.30 | maquis | elg: so, if it feels right when i'm kneading, it's fine? |
| 14:48.30 | elg | i like white better. milder (less pungent) taste |
| 14:48.37 | maquis | cool |
| 14:48.43 | elg | well, if you're kneading it's probably too dry. :) |
| 14:48.54 | maquis | ? |
| 14:49.17 | maquis | (i'm still rather new to bread-making, but i've been enjoying it, so i'm trying to learn) |
| 14:49.40 | maquis | where's the fun in making bread if you don't knead? |
| 14:49.46 | *** join/#utah Shadowwire (n=shadowwi@mail.swplumb.com) |
| 14:49.51 | elg | If the dough (white or wheat) is dry enough to knead without sticking to your hands, it's more than likely too dry (for my tastes) |
| 14:49.57 | elg | eating it of course |
| 14:50.00 | Shadowwire | sup all? |
| 14:50.15 | maquis | elg: so, how do you mix it all up? |
| 14:50.19 | elg | it's probably about 50%-65% hydration (ratio of water to flour) |
| 14:50.20 | Shadowwire | Hows the bread? |
| 14:50.50 | elg | I like about 70%-75% |
| 14:51.08 | elg | it's manageable by hand after the gluten has developed, but before (i.e. when you would knead) it's really sticky |
| 14:51.25 | elg | the purpose of kneading is to develop gluten |
| 14:51.34 | elg | but gluten develops all by itself with water and time |
| 14:51.42 | maquis | ah |
| 14:51.50 | elg | it's a modern era invention |
| 14:52.12 | elg | you can knead, but you take a different tack. you grab the dough and stretch it, fold it |
| 14:52.23 | elg | and don't mind that it won't let go of you, until you're done kneading |
| 14:52.33 | elg | really sticky, but if that's fun for you have at it |
| 14:52.43 | maquis | ah |
| 14:52.44 | maquis | cool |
| 14:52.47 | maquis | that sounds like fun :) |
| 14:53.15 | Shadowwire | You guys are weird. |
| 14:53.52 | elg | http://hans.fugal.net/bread.pdf <-- I think you'll be happy with that recipe, at least as a starting point |
| 14:54.10 | elg | the whole wheat variation of course |
| 14:55.10 | elg | that's artisan. if you want something more, um, additive I can get you a recipe with things like milk, yogurt, honey, etc. |
| 14:55.23 | elg | it makes a nice whole wheat loaf too. |
| 14:55.49 | maquis | :) |
| 14:55.51 | Shadowwire | Fun to me would be something like Playing Battlefield2, or hunting, or mabey a haloween party. Not having dough stick to me. |
| 14:55.56 | maquis | i usually do that dditions myself a lot of times |
| 14:55.58 | elg | hrmm, I didn't put the whole wheat variation in there did I? |
| 14:56.26 | elg | then I recommend doing it once with white to get the feel |
| 14:56.49 | elg | then reproduce the feel in WW (remember it soaks up water, so check again 5 minutes after mixing) |
| 14:57.25 | elg | but the margin is good enough you could just dive in. say 69% instead of 72% wouldn't be a disaster by any means |
| 14:58.18 | elg | what's your relative humidity there on average? |
| 14:59.07 | klys | yo |
| 14:59.20 | Shadowwire | sup? |
| 14:59.44 | Shadowwire | Your here just in time for some bread making discussion. |
| 15:00.27 | elg | btw, do you have a kitchen scale? |
| 15:01.26 | klys | man I don't even know what one looks like |
| 15:02.53 | elg | maquis: i recommend you invest in a scale (electronic) and get this book from the library or the amazon: http://rubyurl.com/bAB |
| 15:03.11 | elg | or you can brave it with my recipe and we'll see how good it is for a beginner. :) |
| 15:03.32 | maquis | elg: i don't have a scale yet |
| 15:03.43 | maquis | i can probably find one at target, though |
| 15:03.47 | maquis | that sounds like a good investment |
| 15:04.01 | maquis | elg: relative humidity is high |
| 15:04.04 | maquis | it's seattle |
| 15:04.56 | maquis | the only downside is, we don't always have as much warmth for when i'm letting stuff rise (on sunny days, i can stick it near the window... but on most days, it just has to try to soak up as much warmth as possible in the kitchen |
| 15:07.09 | Shadowwire | We have plenty of warmth here, perhaps we could make a trade? |
| 15:08.12 | klys | I need to make some bread today, too |
| 15:09.05 | elg | maquis: you might adjust the water down slightly then, because of moisture stored in the flour |
| 15:09.11 | elg | but maybe not, for fresh-ground |
| 15:09.23 | maquis | elg: ok |
| 15:09.25 | maquis | sounds good |
| 15:09.32 | maquis | i'll probably play with it a bit and see how it goes |
| 15:09.39 | elg | that's the name of the game |
| 15:09.44 | maquis | i've definitely had my share of failed bread experiements so far |
| 15:09.53 | maquis | but scott is nice and actually eats the bread anyways... :) |
| 15:10.04 | maquis | Shadowwire: no kidding :) |
| 15:10.10 | maquis | but we don't want nearly as much as you've got |
| 15:10.42 | elg | the things that make the most difference: slack dough, high temperature, steam (dutch oven is the easiest way) |
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| 15:11.14 | elg | maquis: if it's any consolation longer rising means more complex flavor |
| 15:11.48 | Shadowwire | Dutch oven bread? Thats actualy sounds really good. |
| 15:11.49 | maquis | steam, eh? |
| 15:11.53 | maquis | i haven't messed with that at all |
| 15:12.06 | elg | makes the really nice crispy crusty crust |
| 15:12.24 | maquis | i like to put different things on the crust on their way into the oven... |
| 15:12.55 | maquis | i've done egg whites, which makes for a bit more crispy crust, and i've also done herb butter, which is pretty tasty, but a softer crust |
| 15:13.08 | Shadowwire | like cinnimon? |
| 15:13.40 | maquis | i haven't tried cinnamon, but i bet with a sweeter bread, a bit of cinnamon would be perfect |
| 15:13.43 | maquis | or with raisins |
| 15:13.48 | elg | Shadowwire: it's easy to make. easier than reinstalling grub |
| 15:13.57 | elg | just follow the directions on that pdf I posted |
| 15:14.10 | Shadowwire | cool. |
| 15:15.23 | Shadowwire | main() |
| 15:15.23 | Shadowwire | { |
| 15:15.23 | Shadowwire | puts("hello world guess who is writing a c program"); |
| 15:15.23 | Shadowwire | return(0); |
| 15:15.23 | Shadowwire | } |
| 15:15.32 | Shadowwire | ops Sorry. |
| 15:15.35 | klys | k |
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| 15:15.56 | Shadowwire | Hey what does the () mean after the Main. |
| 15:16.22 | maquis | heh... |
| 15:16.27 | klys | it's (void) |
| 15:16.42 | maquis | support engineer just IM'd me... i said "it's not my fault?", and his response was "actually, it is" |
| 15:17.05 | Shadowwire | its void... Ok so why is it there? |
| 15:17.16 | klys | it should be: int main( int argc, char** argv ) // argc == argument count, argv[ 0 ] = ./prog; argv[ 1 ] = first arg |
| 15:18.01 | klys | it distinguishes functions from variables/typedefs |
| 15:18.38 | Shadowwire | um... I dont know what you just said, but . . . Ok? |
| 15:18.52 | klys | try writing it that way instead |
| 15:19.34 | klys | int main( int argc, char** argv ) { printf( "program is: %s\n", argv[ 0 ] ); return 0; } |
| 15:20.43 | klys | then ln -s file.elf nwhat.elf; ./nwhat.elf |
| 15:22.36 | jsmith | maquis: You having a "monday number two" as well? |
| 15:23.37 | klys | shadowwire, also at the top, #include <stdio.h>, and you're probably writing this in emacs? |
| 15:24.33 | maquis | jsmith: ? |
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| 15:24.48 | maquis | jsmith: ah... i get it now |
| 15:24.54 | maquis | it's going to be a long set of mondays... |
| 15:24.57 | maquis | i'm on-call this week |
| 15:25.08 | redbeard2 | fozzmoo: "not available" or "now available"? |
| 15:25.16 | jsmith | maquis: Been there, done that... still have the scars |
| 15:25.20 | fozzmoo | wha? |
| 15:25.37 | redbeard2 | fozzmoo: "Core Catalyst modules are not available in FC6 extras and F7 repositories!" |
| 15:25.40 | fozzmoo | OUCH! |
| 15:26.00 | Jayce^ | I'd think that'd be *now* |
| 15:26.07 | maquis | jsmith: yeah... it makes things interesting |
| 15:26.07 | fozzmoo | redbeard2: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for your gracious spellchecking. |
| 15:26.30 | redbeard2 | fozzmoo: i was going to leave a comment about it, but i never got my confirmation email when i signed up for an account |
| 15:26.51 | fozzmoo | Really? |
| 15:26.58 | redbeard2 | would i lie to you? |
| 15:27.01 | redbeard2 | about that, i mean |
| 15:27.03 | fozzmoo | heh. |
| 15:27.28 | fozzmoo | I'll look into that too. As you know, I'm kinda new to this MovableType thing. |
| 15:27.39 | redbeard2 | fozzmoo: no worries. just letting you know. |
| 15:28.27 | redbeard2 | s/saying/saying,/ |
| 15:29.04 | fozzmoo | And... it's fixed. |
| 15:29.08 | fozzmoo | Now... this e-mail confirmation thing... |
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| 15:30.55 | redbeard2 | ~whalebomb Keighvin |
| 15:30.56 | ibot | ACTION throws an explosive whale named Gunter at Keighvin and hides. |
| 15:31.03 | Jayce^ | ~lart Keighvin |
| 15:31.03 | ibot | farts in Keighvin's general direction |
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| 15:39.49 | tensai | klys: in fact, there is another parameter. int main(int argc, char **argv, char **env). env contains all the environment variables. |
| 15:40.22 | tensai | redbeard2: you don't even know how jealous I was when I saw you went to Blue Ginger |
| 15:40.34 | klys | tensai: this part of C99 ? |
| 15:40.53 | fozzmoo | redbeard2: I've enabled your account. |
| 15:41.04 | fozzmoo | redbeard2: Still working on figuring out why the e-mail didn't go out. |
| 15:41.30 | tensai | klys: I'm not up on all the standards and such. I know I learned it a long time ago, meaning it's not some new fangled thing. |
| 15:43.48 | redbeard2 | tensai: i guess i shouldn't rub it in that i went twice, huh? |
| 15:44.12 | tensai | redbeard2: I hope you choke on an oyster |
| 15:44.37 | redbeard2 | tensai: it's a new week with a new per diem. maybe i should see if i can make reservations for thursday. |
| 15:45.51 | tensai | I had oysters for the first time when I was at the Oregon coast last month |
| 15:45.58 | vontrapp | choke on a fork! |
| 15:46.03 | vontrapp | hah! get by without that! |
| 15:47.00 | vontrapp | o/~ you'll poke your eye out, you'll poke your eye out |
| 15:48.01 | redbeard2 | vontrapp: watch it, man. i know where you... um... |
| 15:48.05 | redbeard2 | chat. sometimes. |
| 15:53.34 | fozzmoo | redbeard2: I have fixed it! |
| 15:54.13 | tensai | redbeard2: so who's next on your celebrity chef tour? Keller? Ripert? Batali? |
| 16:01.17 | klys | bbl. eta 1 hr. if not, and anyone cares, try to email me |
| 16:02.03 | redbeard2 | tensai: if i ever make it out to napa valley, i will call and try to make reservations at keller's place the very second i can. |
| 16:02.29 | Jayce^ | tensai, no, he's getting a job in GA, and will camp out on altons porch.. |
| 16:02.30 | redbeard2 | same thing for chicago/charley trotter's |
| 16:02.47 | redbeard2 | speaking of GA, where is goozbach? is he in here? |
| 16:02.58 | Jayce^ | was earlier |
| 16:03.01 | *** part/#utah |phoenyx| (n=tthorley@64.147.152.13) |
| 16:13.34 | Shadowwire | hey Klys |
| 16:14.50 | tensai | redbeard2: ooh, yeah. trotter's would be a great place to go. the travel I could do without, but I almost want to be a Guru just for the food. |
| 16:17.58 | tensai | since my company's hq is in the middle of nowhere wyoming, they all love coming to idaho falls to eat |
| 16:20.59 | levi | elg: So, I was up late last night looking at build logs of backyard brick ovens. |
| 16:25.43 | Shadowwire | So, im trying to learn linux and I've install a vm of Fedora7. Anyone have any suggestions on what to learn? |
| 16:26.43 | fozzmoo | Shadowwire: You're not a Linux expert yet? |
| 16:26.49 | fozzmoo | Seems like you've been in #utah for a while. |
| 16:26.56 | fozzmoo | Why haven't you absorbed all the knowledge? :) |
| 16:26.58 | Shadowwire | ha ha very funny. |
| 16:27.16 | fozzmoo | Well, what DO you know? |
| 16:27.30 | fozzmoo | Can you find your way around the Linux filesystem? |
| 16:27.35 | Shadowwire | klys taught me how to use "screen" |
| 16:27.41 | Shadowwire | not realy. |
| 16:28.10 | fozzmoo | What do you want to do? Use Linux as a desktop operating system or as a server? |
| 16:28.12 | Shadowwire | I know how to switch users using "su" |
| 16:28.20 | Shadowwire | server |
| 16:28.37 | fozzmoo | Cool. So, you basically want to master the wizardry of the command line. |
| 16:28.37 | Shadowwire | im mostly interested in cli |
| 16:28.46 | Shadowwire | si sinior |
| 16:28.46 | fozzmoo | ping! |
| 16:28.50 | Shadowwire | pong |
| 16:29.14 | fozzmoo | Well, if you're looking for a good book. I'd recommend "Think Unix" by Jon Lasser. |
| 16:29.49 | Shadowwire | ok... So how do I get arround in the filesystem? |
| 16:30.05 | Jayce^ | *whimper*... there should be licenses for allowing people to call themselves programmers.. |
| 16:30.28 | Jayce^ | of course, would PHP users be the "Permit" of licensing? |
| 16:30.28 | fozzmoo | Shadowwire: Check out http://www.linuxcommand.org/ |
| 16:30.34 | Shadowwire | ok |
| 16:30.55 | fozzmoo | Jayce^: Other fields actually have certification criteria for those who want to call themselves "engineers." |
| 16:31.23 | fozzmoo | It'd be cool if there was some kind of rating system for programmers... |
| 16:31.24 | Shadowwire | I think my title is "slave" |
| 16:31.43 | Jayce^ | was just working with somebody in another organization.. doesn't know how to make a remote call, doesn't know what API is.. and things like REST interfaces are well beyond.. |
| 16:31.45 | fozzmoo | So you could say, "Oh yeah, I know Jayce^. He's a 6-star Perl guy." |
| 16:32.12 | fozzmoo | and then we could say things like, "My 2-star Perl guy can outdo your 8-star PHP guy." |
| 16:32.23 | Jayce^ | :) |
| 16:32.40 | Keighvin | I cast magic missile. |
| 16:32.59 | Shadowwire | nice keighvin. |
| 16:33.10 | Shadowwire | at the darkness? |
| 16:33.43 | fozzmoo | This linuxcommand.org site is pretty nice. |
| 16:33.46 | fozzmoo | I've never been here before. |
| 16:34.02 | Shadowwire | yea, I like it too.. |
| 16:34.05 | fozzmoo | But it looks really nice for people who want to figure out what's so great about working at the command line. |
| 17:04.22 | goozbach | redbeard2: yup i am in GA |
| 17:04.27 | goozbach | ATL to be exact |
| 17:04.37 | goozbach | why do you ask? |
| 17:05.03 | Shadowwire | Hey, |
| 17:05.28 | Shadowwire | I think I need to concentrate on learning the cli for now. |
| 17:05.44 | Shadowwire | klys: you catch that? |
| 17:05.50 | klys | did you start emacs -nw |
| 17:06.05 | Shadowwire | I did play with it. |
| 17:06.10 | klys | you can hit C-z from it anyime |
| 17:06.17 | klys | then fg to get back |
| 17:06.32 | Shadowwire | I actualy knew that. Beleive it or not. |
| 17:06.33 | klys | read the tutorial yet? |
| 17:06.36 | Shadowwire | no |
| 17:06.47 | klys | can you create a file and save it |
| 17:07.09 | Shadowwire | yes |
| 17:07.18 | klys | #! /bin/sh |
| 17:07.20 | klys | ls |
| 17:07.28 | klys | (end of file) |
| 17:07.34 | klys | save it as ls.sh |
| 17:07.54 | Shadowwire | do i have to compile it? |
| 17:07.57 | klys | no |
| 17:08.13 | klys | chmod +x ls.sh; ./ls.sh |
| 17:09.16 | klys | if you like a *.sh cp it to /usr/local/bin, then you don't need ./ |
| 17:09.45 | levi | Man, this experience is not making me think any more highly of Fedora. |
| 17:10.06 | klys | you're using fedora too? |
| 17:10.11 | Shadowwire | levi: what do you mean? |
| 17:10.12 | levi | Not by choice. |
| 17:10.20 | levi | Its dependency information is pathetic. |
| 17:10.56 | levi | Everything depends on an exact version number, so it's VERY easy to get into dependency hell. |
| 17:11.06 | klys | really |
| 17:11.50 | Shadowwire | klys: ok saved |
| 17:12.27 | Shadowwire | Hey Im trying to change my prompt to display the path. |
| 17:12.46 | levi | The only sane way to upgrade a Fedora system is with a fresh install. |
| 17:12.52 | levi | And that is just stupid. |
| 17:12.55 | klys | export PS1='\t \w\$ '; iirc |
| 17:13.15 | Shadowwire | (export PS1=? |
| 17:13.54 | klys | haha you got the truth, ends at the ; |
| 17:14.32 | Shadowwire | You smell of fish. |
| 17:15.11 | klys | you using bash? |
| 17:15.26 | klys | grep bash /etc/passwd, should see your account |
| 17:16.25 | Shadowwire | what did you want to know? |
| 17:16.34 | klys | well, does it work, mainly |
| 17:16.37 | Shadowwire | yes |
| 17:16.40 | klys | k |
| 17:16.48 | klys | on to the next limelight |
| 17:17.27 | Shadowwire | hey, export PS1=' \"what for path" ' |
| 17:17.39 | Shadowwire | not time. |
| 17:17.53 | klys | \w |
| 17:18.11 | klys | if you're in $HOME, it's ~ |
| 17:18.13 | klys | pwd |
| 17:18.52 | klys | set | grep HOME |
| 17:19.15 | Shadowwire | why? |
| 17:19.25 | klys | do they match |
| 17:19.40 | klys | if so, ~ makes sense |
| 17:19.41 | Shadowwire | Does what match |
| 17:19.56 | klys | `pwd` == `set | grep HOME` |
| 17:20.35 | Shadowwire | ls |
| 17:20.45 | klys | /usr/local/bin/ls.sh |
| 17:21.08 | Keighvin | klys: Uh, pwd should NOT be equal to `set | grep HOME` |
| 17:21.12 | Shadowwire | ok im confused. |
| 17:21.20 | Keighvin | pwd indicates your current directory. |
| 17:21.41 | Keighvin | While your current directory may sometimes be ~, they cannot be considered mathematically equivalent. |
| 17:21.55 | Shadowwire | PWD/#$HOME/`}" |
| 17:22.10 | Keighvin | Er, wait. |
| 17:22.12 | klys | keighvin: read a little, we were wondering why pwd wasn't showing in PS1 |
| 17:22.26 | Keighvin | Gotcha - still, that's a wonky way of putting it. |
| 17:23.54 | klys | maybe you haven't typed pwd yet |
| 17:26.43 | klys | export PWD=/etc |
| 17:27.02 | klys | pretty much the same as cd /etc |
| 17:27.23 | klys | #comment |
| 17:27.32 | klys | echo `ls` |
| 17:32.02 | Shadowwire | cool |
| 17:34.54 | klys | ok, in `info libc', look for system() |
| 17:36.15 | *** join/#utah beandog (n=steve@gentoo/developer/beandog) |
| 17:37.43 | klys | 26.1 Running a Command |
| 17:41.42 | Shadowwire | sorry |
| 17:42.55 | klys | oh, here's hoping you get a chance to read the emacs tutorial, here let me find emacs for DOS and you can take it home with you: it's the best |
| 17:45.49 | klys | ftp://ftp.delorie.com/pub/djgpp/current/v2misc/csdpmi5b.zip ftp://ftp.delorie.com/pub/djgpp/current/v2gnu/em2005b.zip |
| 17:45.52 | Shadowwire | for DOS? |
| 17:46.16 | Shadowwire | Why would I want tat? |
| 17:46.23 | Shadowwire | That. |
| 17:46.52 | klys | yep, it'll upack cwsdpmi in bin/ and emacs.exe in gnu/emacs/bin |
| 17:46.57 | klys | it's simple... |
| 17:47.03 | klys | and 16-color |
| 17:47.15 | klys | and it works with C-z too |
| 17:48.35 | klys | and yes, it supports long file names |
| 18:06.05 | goozbach | kill -9 and your process is mine! |
| 18:06.14 | goozbach | don't step out of line or it's kill -9 |
| 18:07.17 | klys | shadowwire: ok I'm here until 12:45 if you need anything |
| 18:07.26 | klys | 'cause I got a ride |
| 18:08.51 | klys | goozbach: did you know about signal( SIGCHLD, SIG_IGN ); and its effect on zombies, there will be no zombies |
| 18:16.40 | goozbach | klys: I'm quoting a nerdcore rap song |
| 18:17.10 | klys | oh, it's not my fault it's just the lyrics somebody stop them |
| 18:17.34 | klys | no, anway is it like hiphop? |
| 18:17.39 | goozbach | kinda |
| 18:17.45 | goozbach | google rhyme torrents |
| 18:18.02 | klys | ~google independent |
| 18:18.14 | klys | !google hey pop |
| 18:22.45 | ^Migs^ | ~google k-pop |
| 18:31.02 | Shadowwire | Hey, Have you ever booted from a linux cd or USB drive on a windows machine in order to bypass the secuity? |
| 18:32.40 | klys | well, you can with knoppix |
| 18:33.23 | klys | there is probably a better way though, search slashdot.org for ntfs |
| 18:33.54 | *** join/#utah pmcnabb (n=pmcnabb@otherlab.cs.byu.edu) |
| 18:35.06 | klys | it's easy to from your cmos from windows, so setup passwords aren't secure |
| 18:35.29 | Shadowwire | Say that again? |
| 18:35.50 | Shadowwire | in other words. What? |
| 18:36.04 | klys | s/from/frob/ |
| 18:36.28 | Shadowwire | frob? |
| 18:36.45 | klys | -nicate |
| 18:36.49 | Shadowwire | ? |
| 18:36.52 | klys | to...disable |
| 18:37.03 | klys | to...crack |
| 18:37.29 | Shadowwire | I dont want to disable my passowrds. I want to get files from a system whos passwords I dont know. |
| 18:38.33 | klys | well, get knoppix and a usb drive, then you can get files after booting the cd |
| 18:38.59 | klys | any strange errors at boot, reburn and try it over |
| 18:39.01 | Shadowwire | knoppix, ok |
| 18:45.22 | klys | ciao |
| 18:50.09 | *** join/#utah TimRiker (n=timr@72.11.78.6) |
| 18:50.09 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 18:52.44 | *** join/#utah zerdith (n=zerdith@66-188-62-254.dhcp.bycy.mi.charter.com) |
| 18:58.35 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@dhcp40.cs.nmsu.edu) |
| 19:58.12 | tensai | ~lart sonicwall |
| 19:58.12 | ibot | slaps a compatible dib on sonicwall's head |
| 20:03.04 | redbeard2 | was the arts package replaced with something else? |
| 20:06.56 | tensai | ii arts 1.5.6-0ubuntu1 sound system from the official KDE release |
| 20:07.01 | tensai | redbeard2: not here |
| 20:07.28 | fozzmoo | % rpm -q arts |
| 20:07.28 | fozzmoo | arts-1.5.7-1.fc7 |
| 20:07.47 | redbeard2 | odd. i can't find it in any yum repositories. |
| 20:08.18 | redbeard2 | fozzmoo: how about fc6? |
| 20:09.22 | thaddeusq | redbeard2: I've got it installed on F7 |
| 20:09.45 | redbeard2 | thaddeusq: yeah, but i'm running fc6 |
| 20:10.10 | thaddeusq | redbeard2: Why? :) |
| 20:11.00 | redbeard2 | thaddeusq: i'm trying to get some transcoding working on a spare fc6 box in this classroom.. but i never seem to get my repos working properly |
| 20:14.55 | levi | KDE is apparently planning on replacing arts. |
| 20:16.30 | beandog | replace or drop? |
| 20:16.50 | levi | Speaking of fc, we finally got past our stupid dependency problem and the upgrade to fc7 is running. |
| 20:16.53 | beandog | I thought they were dropping it |
| 20:17.13 | levi | Well, I said replace because presumably there will be a lot of legacy apps that still use it. |
| 20:17.31 | levi | But I don't follow KDE's architecture very closely, so maybe that's not the case. |
| 20:26.55 | redbeard2 | looks like in fc6, arts is in the updates repo |
| 20:28.29 | beandog | well most of the legacy apps have an optional dep on arts anyway |
| 20:37.05 | redbeard2 | it looks like mplayer still requires arts. |
| 20:38.17 | fozzmoo | xine? |
| 20:38.22 | fozzmoo | Use xine instead, Joe! |
| 20:38.42 | redbeard2 | yeah, see this is what i'm talking about |
| 20:40.09 | Keighvin | Runs pretty slick on my PDA |
| 20:40.28 | fozzmoo | redbeard2: Just recompile the mplayer RPM from source w/out arts support. |
| 20:40.58 | redbeard2 | fozzmoo: that seems like so much more work than "yum install mplayer", assuming the repos are set up properly |
| 20:41.31 | fozzmoo | redbeard2: True, but not that hard for a Guru. :) |
| 20:41.42 | jsmith | levi: Cool... did that link I sent you help any? |
| 20:41.56 | levi | jsmith: I think so, but I don't remember. :) |
| 20:42.08 | fozzmoo | jsmith: We're trying to sell Asterisk to one of our clients (with the help of ArrivalTel)... |
| 20:42.11 | jsmith | levi: Cook, thanks! |
| 20:42.15 | jsmith | fozzmoo: Rock on! |
| 20:42.20 | redbeard2 | fozzmoo: yeah, i just installed the freshrpms rpm... it got me up and running |
| 20:42.24 | fozzmoo | Surprise, surprise! Other vendors in the running are poo-pooing Asterisk! |
| 20:42.25 | levi | jsmith: We upgraded to fc6, which went fine, and then the attempt to go to fc7 choked on a bunch of ridiculous dependencies. |
| 20:43.01 | jsmith | fozzmoo: It's not perfect... it's got warts... but you can't beat it on flexibility (and the price isn't shabby either) |
| 20:43.05 | fozzmoo | We thought the price quote alone would make us the winning bid. |
| 20:43.16 | fozzmoo | But it looks like we're going to have to do an in-person and show them some of the magic. |
| 20:43.33 | jsmith | fozzmoo: Awesome. Let me know if I can be of assistance |
| 20:43.39 | fozzmoo | ok |
| 20:44.02 | fozzmoo | thanks |
| 20:44.53 | goozbach | redbeard2: where are you this week? |
| 20:45.32 | redbeard2 | goozbach: boston |
| 20:45.48 | klys | shadowwire: ping |
| 20:46.00 | goozbach | redbeard2: again this week? |
| 20:46.05 | goozbach | lucky sucker |
| 20:46.07 | redbeard2 | goozbach: yup. |
| 20:46.15 | redbeard2 | but i'm unhappy with ATL now |
| 20:46.22 | goozbach | the airport? |
| 20:46.23 | goozbach | why? |
| 20:46.26 | redbeard2 | yeah |
| 20:46.33 | goozbach | it was one of my favorites |
| 20:46.41 | goozbach | until just a few weeks ago |
| 20:46.50 | goozbach | but then I wasn't flying delta |
| 20:46.51 | redbeard2 | my wife flew out this weekend, with a connection in ATL both there and back again |
| 20:47.03 | goozbach | so it's my own damn fault |
| 20:47.28 | redbeard2 | she ended up being there for an extra hour on the way out |
| 20:47.45 | redbeard2 | because delta had scheduled four planes to be at her gate at the same time |
| 20:48.23 | jsmith | Ah, that's the ATL we've come to hate :-) |
| 20:48.44 | jsmith | Last time I flew through Atlanta, I ended up renting a car and driving all night :-) |
| 20:48.44 | klys | atlantic transit lines |
| 20:49.00 | redbeard2 | on the way back, she should have had a 45 minute layover in ATL. but her plane was 25 minutes late... and then spent 20 minutes on the tarmac |
| 20:49.01 | klys | atlanta transit line |
| 20:49.50 | redbeard2 | she finally got one of the agents to put her on a plane to vegas, where she arrived at 1am, and had to wait until 6am to get a flight back to salt lake |
| 20:50.53 | redbeard2 | she could have waited for a plane to salt lake in ATL, but the first one that she wouldn't have been on standby for wasn't until the next afternoon. |
| 20:50.58 | klys | 6 hours is a long time and a half |
| 20:51.11 | redbeard2 | klys: yes, but almost a day is even longer |
| 20:53.40 | redbeard2 | i now have a standing request in to avoid connections in ATL at all costs. nothing personal, goozbach, but your airport scares me. |
| 20:54.15 | redbeard2 | of course, if i ever teach a class in ATL, then going there can't be helped. but i will make sure to arrive at the airport 4 hours early, just in case |
| 20:54.25 | klys | atlanta |
| 20:55.42 | redbeard2 | correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't delta BASED out of ATL? isn't ATL their biggest hub? you'd think that it would be their airport with the least amount of problems. |
| 20:56.09 | klys | maybe not every day |
| 20:57.40 | redbeard2 | klys: from what my wife heard from passengers, it would seem that ATL is known for this type of problems. famous for it, even. |
| 20:58.02 | klys | ok, you said ATL right to me, now it stands for atlanta or nothing. |
| 20:58.11 | klys | so |
| 20:58.26 | klys | atlanta is famous for gambling if anything |
| 20:59.12 | redbeard2 | klys: do you mean atlantic city? |
| 20:59.17 | klys | hmm |
| 20:59.28 | redbeard2 | ...which is actually in new jersey? |
| 20:59.38 | klys | I was sure it was GA |
| 21:02.15 | thaddeusq | klys: ATL is the airport code for Atlanta, GA |
| 21:02.29 | klys | just checked, you're right about atlanta being pretty clean |
| 21:02.46 | JoshH | ATL is actually pretty famous for travel problems |
| 21:03.36 | redbeard2 | my wife also decided that the term "southern hospitality" does not necessarily apply to that particular part of the south |
| 21:03.53 | redbeard2 | whereas the people in vegas were all extremely friendly and helpful. |
| 21:03.55 | goozbach | redbeard2: truth be told, I've never had a problem going *THROUGH* ATL, only leaving or arriving there |
| 21:04.00 | goozbach | interesting |
| 21:04.01 | klys | hmm, I have a friend from georgia who is very hospitable |
| 21:04.06 | redbeard2 | goozbach: very interesting indeed |
| 21:04.11 | goozbach | I live in Georgia |
| 21:04.39 | redbeard2 | goozbach: note: i was careful not to say all people in georgia |
| 21:05.01 | redbeard2 | just the ones that work at ATL |
| 21:05.23 | goozbach | half of them aren't even FROM Georgia |
| 21:05.27 | klys | did you notice a lot of rap on the radio |
| 21:05.45 | goozbach | and furthermore I'm MARRYING A georgian! |
| 21:06.03 | goozbach | klys: I work for Cox Radio |
| 21:06.08 | goozbach | I hear it all |
| 21:06.19 | ^Migs^ | we had catering from Chili's today. |
| 21:06.20 | ^Migs^ | niiice |
| 21:06.36 | redbeard2 | goozbach: just so long as you're not marrying a person from idaho... their drivers suck |
| 21:07.05 | goozbach | I ate an entire box of Fig Newtons |
| 21:07.18 | klys | I had peas, tuna, and sour cream |
| 21:07.19 | goozbach | and about 1.5-six packs of Mt. Dew |
| 21:07.33 | goozbach | oh and some good Tai |
| 21:07.39 | goozbach | (sp?) |
| 21:07.43 | klys | thai |
| 21:07.46 | goozbach | Thai |
| 21:07.47 | klys | but we know |
| 21:07.49 | goozbach | that's the one |
| 21:08.35 | redbeard2 | is spr around? i have a few things to say about california... |
| 21:08.36 | redbeard2 | ^_^ |
| 21:08.55 | klys | well, my ancestors arrived in new york and my family spent a couple of months in nevada and I went to oklahoma |
| 21:08.57 | tensai | redbeard2: virginia, new mexico, washington. take your pick |
| 21:10.10 | redbeard2 | oh man. people from washington. i know this one guy from washington, he's such a jerk. even worse, he thinks he's my brother. |
| 21:10.14 | ^Migs^ | that's too many fig newtons, goozbach |
| 21:10.22 | ^Migs^ | The serving size is 2 newtons |
| 21:10.38 | redbeard2 | wait, who do we have here from virginia? |
| 21:10.57 | Tene | I'm currently in VA |
| 21:11.04 | tensai | redbeard2: jsmith |
| 21:11.13 | redbeard2 | Tene: that doesn't count. you're just there for a week. |
| 21:11.34 | klys | you should take a state opinon poll. here's how it works, you get a b&w map of the US and a bunch of colored pencils. then you just fill in what color you think they should be. it can change over time and your opinion changes with it |
| 21:11.35 | tensai | jsmith moved there to marry his sister and grow tabacco |
| 21:11.43 | jsmith | redbeard2: I'm *in* Virginia, not *from* Virginia |
| 21:11.50 | goozbach | holy geez! I've eaten 15 servings of newton! |
| 21:11.53 | goozbach | oh no |
| 21:12.11 | Keighvin | ~bellyache goozbach |
| 21:12.12 | goozbach | and 9 servings of Mt Dew |
| 21:12.14 | jsmith | tensai: Well, not quite... |
| 21:12.21 | goozbach | suprisingly it's not too bad yet |
| 21:12.26 | jsmith | goozbach: Nice afternoon snack |
| 21:12.38 | klys | just wait for the next one, right |
| 21:12.42 | redbeard2 | jsmith: i don't have anything offensive to say about virginia at the moment... but if you want, i can do some research. i wouldn't want to leave somebody feeling left out that i didn't offend them. |
| 21:12.45 | tensai | jsmith: sorry. it's spelled tobacco, isn't it |
| 21:12.54 | redbeard2 | tensai: tomacco. |
| 21:13.20 | tensai | gotta get the spelling right. I'd hate to offend. |
| 21:14.17 | klys | sometimes I just give up, esp. since I'm using a laptop kbd. |
| 21:15.12 | jsmith | redbeard2: That's alright... in my new job, I get plenty of opportunity to be offended |
| 21:15.49 | klys | shadowwire: ping |
| 21:16.03 | klys | you have no right! |
| 21:16.12 | redbeard2 | jsmith: maybe that's my problem. in my new(ish) job, i have plenty of opportunities to offend. i've gotta stop taking my work everywhere with me. |
| 21:16.44 | jsmith | Yeah... I'm now "community relations", so that's guaranteed to tick people off |
| 21:17.17 | Tene | I know where you work! |
| 21:17.39 | elg | anyone got an intel mac handy? |
| 21:17.49 | klys | my neighbor might |
| 21:18.21 | elg | Jayce^? |
| 21:20.41 | klys | ok, anyone used gobby or similar (like moonedit) |
| 21:21.29 | klys | or seen a dynamic dom/xml implementation |
| 21:22.04 | klys | irc is such an unstructured life |
| 21:22.55 | redbeard2 | k, i'm outta here. i have some people at the hotel to offend. ciao! |
| 21:26.15 | goozbach | offensive brute... |
| 21:26.20 | goozbach | I miss him already |
| 21:26.59 | klys | goozbach: is there something interesting on you computer I can bug you about |
| 21:31.59 | goozbach | interesting on my computer? |
| 21:32.44 | Shadowwire | Klys: pong |
| 21:32.59 | Shadowwire | Now thats some latency |
| 21:33.02 | klys | hey man how's busy |
| 21:33.14 | Shadowwire | Busy is good. |
| 21:33.23 | klys | does she clean your hands while you're awake |
| 21:33.30 | klys | j/k |
| 21:33.37 | Shadowwire | Holy crap! |
| 21:33.59 | Shadowwire | ~slap shadowwire |
| 21:34.00 | ibot | ACTION slaps shadowwire, keep your grubby fingers to yourself! |
| 21:34.09 | Shadowwire | Im ok now. |
| 21:34.45 | klys | I found out today my favorite restaurant changed hands and is now `eastern buffet' |
| 21:36.04 | Shadowwire | nice. So, how do I make the ~ actualy show the user home directory. |
| 21:36.26 | klys | unset HOME |
| 21:36.35 | Shadowwire | unset home? |
| 21:36.51 | klys | bash is like that |
| 21:37.00 | klys | man bash |
| 21:37.09 | klys | if you care for bash enough to get lost |
| 21:37.19 | Shadowwire | Say what? |
| 21:37.27 | Shadowwire | ls |
| 21:37.31 | Shadowwire | ops |
| 21:37.41 | klys | some of the stuff I'm typing works at the prompt: man bash |
| 21:38.08 | klys | I would like you to keep a list of them and try them out when you get to it |
| 21:38.14 | klys | since you have an editor |
| 21:38.35 | goozbach | klys: might I suggest the "redhat linux bible" |
| 21:38.38 | goozbach | it's a great book |
| 21:38.45 | goozbach | or any of the bible series |
| 21:38.52 | klys | or the `linux bible', which is a big book |
| 21:39.05 | goozbach | it's also a great intro to linux |
| 21:39.17 | klys | I prefer o'reilly books mostly |
| 21:39.20 | goozbach | and is good enough that it'll still be relavant in a few years |
| 21:39.29 | klys | like my pocket sql reference |
| 21:39.30 | Shadowwire | I want my prompt to be /u/w > , but when im in my user directory i want it to say the directory, not ~ |
| 21:39.54 | goozbach | or if you've got a couple thousand to spend try the GuruLabs GL120 course |
| 21:39.58 | goozbach | it's worth every penny |
| 21:40.03 | goozbach | every single one |
| 21:40.09 | klys | add a line to ~/.bashrc that says unset HOME |
| 21:40.18 | goozbach | you don't want to unset home |
| 21:40.28 | klys | oh, right |
| 21:40.33 | klys | there is a better way |
| 21:40.34 | goozbach | methinks there's a env setting |
| 21:40.46 | goozbach | Shadowwire: trided /u/W |
| 21:40.48 | goozbach | ? |
| 21:41.05 | Shadowwire | hu? |
| 21:41.18 | klys | If the tilde-prefix is a `~+', the value of the shell variable PWD replaces the tilde-prefix. |
| 21:41.18 | Shadowwire | whats trided? |
| 21:41.42 | klys | that's from `man bash' |
| 21:41.54 | Shadowwire | Are you man bashing again? |
| 21:42.15 | Shadowwire | Doesnt cd\ take you to your home directory? |
| 21:42.29 | Supaplex|roaming | Shadowwire: I think goozbach meant, have you tried '/u/W' ? |
| 21:42.32 | klys | cd |
| 21:42.46 | klys | how about '\u\W ' |
| 21:43.09 | klys | how about export PS1='\u:\W ' |
| 21:43.49 | Shadowwire | I have tried that. But when Im in "myuser\home\" it simplly displays user@~ |
| 21:45.24 | Shadowwire | Thanks klys that last one worked |
| 21:46.45 | klys | export PS1='`pwd` ' |
| 21:47.05 | goozbach | klys: that'll always be the same prompt |
| 21:47.12 | goozbach | the current pwd |
| 21:47.34 | klys | no, it's tested |
| 21:47.37 | goozbach | wait... maybe not |
| 21:47.45 | goozbach | cool |
| 21:48.16 | klys | sometimes a colorized PS1 breaks readline I've noticed, so be careful |
| 21:48.48 | Shadowwire | um. wheres that symbol, at the risk of sounding stupid. |
| 21:49.03 | klys | @comment |
| 21:49.05 | klys | #comment |
| 21:49.35 | klys | I have logs from yesterday if you're looking for a symbol then mentioned |
| 21:49.40 | goozbach | if you correctly escape the color, then you won't break newline |
| 21:49.57 | goozbach | eg \[ <insert color escapes> \] |
| 21:50.14 | elg | except that recent versions of bash that stopped working |
| 21:50.32 | klys | goozbach: 82 cols, tty, fbdev, maybe you try it with me |
| 21:51.15 | Shadowwire | Yea, that last one `pwd` worked like i wanted. Thanks |
| 21:51.31 | Shadowwire | now, how do I make it always like that? |
| 21:51.40 | *** join/#utah redbeard2 (n=route@12.182.2.225) |
| 21:51.59 | Shadowwire | for when I exit the xterm and come back in? |
| 21:52.00 | goozbach | Shadowwire: take that command and put it into your .bashrc file in your homedir |
| 21:52.06 | goozbach | towards the bottom |
| 21:52.07 | Shadowwire | ok |
| 21:52.08 | klys | shadowwire: settings for bash are in profile and bashrc |
| 21:52.35 | klys | ~/.profile or ~/.bash_profile, /etc/profile and same for the bashrc locations |
| 21:52.43 | Shadowwire | um. Yet again... how do I do that? |
| 21:52.45 | klys | the adduser defaults are ini /etc/skel |
| 21:53.05 | Shadowwire | your talking over my head again. |
| 21:53.16 | klys | read ~ as /home/user |
| 21:53.40 | klys | or /root/.profile, for example |
| 21:53.44 | elg | goozbach: but I think it's working again |
| 21:54.04 | elg | at least it is in ubuntu 7.0.4 |
| 21:54.07 | elg | er 7.04 |
| 21:54.17 | klys | anyone want my 1024x768 or 1152x864 fbdev font? |
| 21:54.26 | klys | it's for 80 cols |
| 21:55.09 | klys | goozbach: now you tell me a full color escape in this syntax |
| 21:55.46 | elg | Here's mine: PS1='$(r=$?; [ 0 == $r ] || echo "\[\033[33m\]$r\[\033[0m\] ")\u@\h:\w\n\[\033[32m\]\$\[\033[0m\] ' |
| 21:56.15 | Shadowwire | klys do I neet to create that file? ".bashrc" ? |
| 21:56.18 | goozbach | \n\033[0m[ \033[0;34m\033[1;31mroot@\h \033[0;33m${PWD}\033[0m ] # |
| 21:56.26 | goozbach | Shadowwire: perhaps |
| 21:56.28 | klys | shadowwire: it exists |
| 21:56.44 | klys | shadowwire: ls -a |
| 21:56.48 | goozbach | Shadowwire: type this command: ls ~/.bashrc |
| 21:56.52 | Shadowwire | should it show if I type "ls" ? |
| 21:56.57 | klys | no |
| 21:57.07 | goozbach | if it shows up then no |
| 21:57.25 | klys | thx elg |
| 21:57.25 | Shadowwire | So what does the -a do? |
| 21:57.29 | klys | all |
| 21:57.30 | goozbach | we should have a promptoff |
| 21:57.42 | goozbach | who has the coolest prompt |
| 21:57.47 | Shadowwire | What does the ls show? |
| 21:57.55 | Shadowwire | just directories? |
| 21:57.58 | elg | me of course |
| 21:58.10 | goozbach | one time I fiddled with a colored prompt which changed based upon how much battery was left |
| 21:58.10 | Shadowwire | i see. . . . |
| 21:58.24 | Shadowwire | that is so cool. |
| 21:58.52 | elg | return code, green \$, and no matter whether you're in /usr/local/share/java/jdk/version-1.2.4323242356236236/lib/stuff/morestuff or ~, you have the same amount of horizontal real estate for typing your command |
| 21:59.09 | Supaplex|roaming | goozbach: hummm. that might be very keen, for say nagios events present on this host. :) |
| 22:00.04 | goozbach | Supaplex|roaming: good point |
| 22:00.17 | goozbach | that might be cool |
| 22:00.21 | goozbach | a sick machine is red |
| 22:00.28 | goozbach | a healty machine is white |
| 22:00.33 | Shadowwire | Ok, so in the DOS days I would have typed "edit .bashrc" to edit the particular file. (well not realy because . would have denoted a file extension.) |
| 22:00.41 | klys | emacs |
| 22:00.46 | goozbach | Shadowwire: now you type vim .bashrc |
| 22:00.52 | goozbach | ignore the emacs user |
| 22:00.58 | goozbach | emacs is MUCH harder to learn |
| 22:01.02 | goozbach | :) |
| 22:01.09 | Supaplex|roaming | vim > * :) |
| 22:01.15 | Shadowwire | vim? emacs? |
| 22:01.18 | klys | use emacs |
| 22:01.20 | goozbach | vim is an editor |
| 22:01.25 | goozbach | like unto edit |
| 22:01.35 | levi | Hah. Emacs is only harder to learn if you've got vim bigots around telling you how hard it is and walking you through vim stuff. |
| 22:01.35 | goozbach | you'll probally do better with something like pico |
| 22:01.36 | goozbach | or nano |
| 22:01.50 | levi | vim is not very much like edit. |
| 22:01.58 | Supaplex|roaming | emacs didn't fit on my openwrt box. vim rawkz. :) |
| 22:02.01 | klys | joe, jed, ae also work, like other dos editor clones |
| 22:02.13 | Supaplex|roaming | pico, nano, ed, vi, zile, |
| 22:02.20 | goozbach | I tell all intro to linux students to use nano until they feel comfortable "taking off the training wheels" |
| 22:02.32 | goozbach | run: nano somefile |
| 22:02.35 | Shadowwire | Um... Still no closer to the answer... |
| 22:02.37 | goozbach | and it opens an editor |
| 22:02.42 | klys | gnotepad |
| 22:02.43 | goozbach | editing somefile |
| 22:02.48 | levi | It is unfortunate that Guru Labs encourages vim bigotry. |
| 22:03.03 | goozbach | levi, it doesn't |
| 22:03.08 | Supaplex|roaming | Shadowwire: do you have a vim question, or something else? |
| 22:03.16 | goozbach | they have just as much emacs coverage as they have vi coverage |
| 22:03.19 | klys | emacs knows the line number, doesn't expect :, and runs in text mode |
| 22:03.19 | levi | vim is a great editor, don't get me wrong, but vim bigots are missing out on emacs goodness. :) |
| 22:03.23 | *** join/#utah Utoxin (i=chatzill@nat/yahoo/x-a20d2d30b60607f1) |
| 22:03.23 | goozbach | I made sure of it |
| 22:03.51 | Supaplex|roaming | I've used emacs plenty in the past. yes, it has a kitchen sink to, but don't need it. |
| 22:03.58 | levi | I am ambieditorous. I use both vim and emacs regularly. |
| 22:04.10 | klys | I try to get everyone to read the tutorial |
| 22:04.24 | Shadowwire | Klys: So I open emacs. |
| 22:04.44 | levi | emacs tramp mode is an awesome thing. |
| 22:04.47 | klys | C-h t |
| 22:05.18 | *** part/#utah Utoxin (i=chatzill@nat/yahoo/x-a20d2d30b60607f1) |
| 22:06.16 | Shadowwire | Is that "ctrl h" "t" ? |
| 22:06.17 | klys | levi: I want the mode with 3-space tabs and 8-space tab characters |
| 22:06.27 | klys | shadowwire: for the tutorial, yes |
| 22:06.46 | Shadowwire | ok |
| 22:07.37 | levi | klys: That doesn't sound very awesome. |
| 22:07.48 | klys | I had to read it too once |
| 22:07.54 | klys | it helped |
| 22:07.58 | levi | tramp mode, on the other hand, is very awesome. |
| 22:08.18 | klys | well, I don't know, what's tramp-mode doing to my edit? |
| 22:08.18 | levi | Oh, the tutorial sounds fine. It's the weird mode you described that sounds decidedly un-awesome. |
| 22:08.39 | levi | tramp mode is letting you transparently edit files on any machine you can ssh to. |
| 22:08.49 | klys | levi: and I also want a 3-space outindent and block unindent |
| 22:09.10 | levi | Complete with tab-completion and all the C-x C-f goodness. |
| 22:09.20 | klys | ok |
| 22:09.25 | klys | so it uses scp |
| 22:09.49 | levi | Try this: C-x C-f /user@host:<tab> |
| 22:09.59 | klys | k |
| 22:10.41 | klys | cool it works good |
| 22:10.51 | levi | Indeed, it is awesome. |
| 22:11.48 | klys | now I should probably ask about tabs in #emacs, I made fast-emacs once and it has no menubar |
| 22:12.12 | Shadowwire | !@#$% Ahhhhhhh!!%$%$% |
| 22:12.13 | UtahBot | Shadowwire: Error: "@#$%" is not a valid command. |
| 22:12.46 | thaddeusq | Shadowwire: that's exactly why emacs includes a psychiatrist |
| 22:13.00 | klys | does not |
| 22:13.18 | Shadowwire | wimper. |
| 22:14.39 | Shadowwire | Im gonna go hang out with Q-bert |
| 22:15.01 | klys | while you're at it have a look at gnotepad+ |
| 22:15.01 | levi | klys: Yes, emacs does include a 'psychiatrist'. M-x doctor |
| 22:15.13 | klys | I should delete that .elc |
| 22:16.13 | klys | there, gone <phew> |
| 22:16.13 | Shadowwire | I forgot Why I wanted to use emacs anyway. |
| 22:16.38 | klys | you were learning linux and emacs is fast |
| 22:16.42 | Shadowwire | I think you accidentaly deleted my brain. |
| 22:17.13 | Shadowwire | Fast at what? |
| 22:17.28 | thaddeusq | Shadowwire: frying your brain. |
| 22:17.46 | klys | .niarb ym deteled ylatnedcca uoy kniht I |
| 22:17.56 | klys | man |
| 22:18.13 | klys | my b*'s not eggs |
| 22:18.22 | Shadowwire | thats some serious dislexia |
| 22:19.03 | klys | demon begone |
| 22:19.33 | klys | so, what part are you at |
| 22:19.33 | Shadowwire | Anyway. Can you walk me through editing the .bashrc file? |
| 22:19.53 | Shadowwire | the terminal? |
| 22:20.00 | Shadowwire | im in emacs |
| 22:20.04 | Shadowwire | emacs |
| 22:20.06 | klys | only if you have some emacs reference, like writing down the commands I tell you |
| 22:20.20 | Shadowwire | O.K. |
| 22:20.43 | Shadowwire | ready. set go! |
| 22:20.47 | klys | C-x C-f, F10 b up up CR, |
| 22:21.10 | klys | C-x C-s, C-x C-w |
| 22:21.19 | klys | C-x k (yes) |
| 22:21.47 | klys | C-k (repeat), C-y |
| 22:22.12 | klys | C-g |
| 22:22.18 | klys | ESC ESC ESC |
| 22:22.40 | klys | C-h t, C-h b, C-h k |
| 22:23.03 | klys | C-l, ESC <, ESC > |
| 22:23.24 | klys | C-z, M-x text (very important) |
| 22:23.32 | klys | M-x configure |
| 22:24.22 | klys | also some less important stuff like C-x C-e, C-u <param>, and ~/.emacs |
| 22:24.31 | klys | also C-s find_me_quick |
| 22:24.44 | klys | EOT |
| 22:24.58 | klys | (means I'm done with the lecture) |
| 22:25.08 | thaddeusq | klys: you forgot M-x doctor |
| 22:25.15 | klys | not on my system |
| 22:25.50 | thaddeusq | what emacs doesn't have the psychiatrist? |
| 22:25.52 | levi | I just had a conversation with the good doctor. |
| 22:26.04 | levi | thaddeusq: The one in which he deleted the code for it. |
| 22:26.44 | *** join/#utah jnbek (n=jnbek@c-67-161-221-47.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 22:27.00 | klys | shadowwire: now you ask me what something does and I'll tell you |
| 22:27.53 | klys | oh, C-x k CR C-x o C-x 1 (sometimes to get out of two-paned help) |
| 22:28.22 | klys | now I'm done |
| 22:28.25 | klys | for real |
| 22:29.43 | klys | levi: add something? |
| 22:30.21 | Shadowwire | I think I got it now. |
| 22:33.36 | Keighvin | See that thar jsmith-away? |
| 22:33.41 | Keighvin | I knew him when he was just jsmith. |
| 22:44.02 | Shadowwire | So, why not use spaces in a file name? |
| 22:44.14 | klys | C-q SPC |
| 22:45.01 | klys | ...pobably because you have a _ key |
| 22:45.06 | klys | s/pob/prob/ |
| 22:48.14 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@216.31.27.110) |
| 22:50.58 | elg | if you work for Twitter, are you a twit? |
| 22:52.07 | klys | you a twitta |
| 22:52.25 | klys | means scum because you're not the boss |
| 22:52.57 | Shadowwire | if your married your never the boss. |
| 22:54.07 | klys | shadowwire: where you at |
| 22:56.38 | Shadowwire | Sitting in my chair. |
| 22:57.01 | klys | shadowwire: really, let's go through this |
| 22:57.08 | Shadowwire | Ok. |
| 22:57.10 | klys | seen /etc? |
| 22:57.17 | Shadowwire | no. |
| 22:57.20 | klys | ls /etc |
| 22:57.29 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@216.31.27.110) |
| 22:57.56 | Shadowwire | is that just a different way of displaying ls? |
| 22:58.08 | klys | now if you're in this pipe it to a file like ls /etc > file |
| 22:58.25 | klys | now less file |
| 22:58.38 | klys | ok, load the file in emacs |
| 22:59.23 | klys | you have some stuff to sort through now |
| 22:59.36 | klys | use C-k twice on any line then hit C-y |
| 23:00.14 | klys | try to sort stuff out, know it vs. don't know it |
| 23:00.24 | klys | ...for example |
| 23:01.07 | *** join/#utah tuxd00d (n=tuxinato@128.187.170.212) |
| 23:02.17 | Shadowwire | Sorry. I gotta go. |
| 23:02.25 | Shadowwire | tty tommarow? |
| 23:02.53 | Shadowwire | Klys? |
| 23:02.57 | klys | ok, can you save the log |
| 23:03.05 | Shadowwire | sure |
| 23:03.15 | klys | ok, ttyl if you need me |
| 23:03.29 | klys | you want tomorrow too? |
| 23:03.37 | klys | I'm like, what time |
| 23:05.09 | Shadowwire | whenever. |
| 23:06.01 | Shadowwire | Later dude. |
| 23:06.08 | klys | I'm around c-ya |
| 23:06.16 | klys | now that makes no sense |
| 23:06.18 | klys | even for me |
| 23:06.30 | klys | I'm around 9:00 the usual |
| 23:07.18 | Shadowwire | hey did you checkout http://moagblog.blogspot.com ? |
| 23:07.52 | klys | not yet, do you expire in 3? |
| 23:07.59 | Shadowwire | expire? |
| 23:08.52 | Shadowwire | ciao |
| 23:08.59 | klys | ciao |
| 23:10.33 | Supaplex|roaming | does mac ignore /etc/hosts? the hostname I just added isn't connecting to the address I provided. it's using dns :-/ |
| 23:13.40 | klys | I emember this line from a configfile (don't know where): order hosts, bind |
| 23:14.20 | Supaplex|roaming | nsswitch iirc. I didn't see one here. |
| 23:14.51 | Supaplex|roaming | hosts: files dns |
| 23:14.57 | Supaplex|roaming | debian box has it. |
| 23:15.09 | klys | I want to know about pam-nss if you know |
| 23:17.32 | Supaplex|roaming | I hav yet to investigate that myself. |
| 23:17.39 | Supaplex|roaming | s/hav/have/ |
| 23:25.57 | Supaplex|roaming | ahh google ftw. |
| 23:33.43 | goozbach | cool command of the day: dstat |