| 00:01.22 | klys | the weather sounds important |
| 00:05.21 | *** join/#utah linuxalien (n=linuxali@macintard.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 00:05.43 | jsmith | Yeah... |
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| 00:20.18 | *** topic/#utah is The channel for content free discussion in Utah | http://plug.org/irc | Utah Open Source Conference - September 6-8, 2007 - https://register.utosc.org | I blame #utah for my obesity http://tinyurl.com/2tbzak |
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| 01:07.33 | brac | about is managing a classroom |
| 01:12.46 | jsmith | -chat about findlay is |
| 01:12.47 | brac | findlay is bothered because even with pf you place an order, it would be an OBSD guy? |
| 01:42.20 | levi_home | Arg, my appliances had better get delivered tomorrow. |
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| 01:57.13 | elg | ~apply levi_home |
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| 02:47.10 | linuxalien | Hi people |
| 02:48.16 | jsmith | Hey linuxalien |
| 02:48.27 | linuxalien | what's cookin jsmith ? |
| 02:49.16 | jsmith | Teaching an Asterisk class, and getting to re-image all the classroom machines |
| 02:50.16 | linuxalien | Nice. Hi class! |
| 02:50.17 | jsmith | And you? |
| 02:50.29 | linuxalien | Just enjoying my laptop - it was in the repair shop. |
| 02:55.17 | linuxalien | Watching a show talk about a Pharoh's lighthouse |
| 02:56.42 | linuxalien | er, looks like it was for Alexandria |
| 02:57.11 | jsmith | Yeah... |
| 03:05.28 | linuxalien | Interesting stuff. |
| 03:46.19 | goozbach | ~lart fedex kinkos |
| 03:46.19 | ibot | whips out a sword and chops fedex kinkos in half |
| 03:46.35 | goozbach | nice, we'll get back regualr olde kinkos |
| 03:46.47 | goozbach | where the people actually knew what they were talking about |
| 03:47.34 | goozbach | I just got stiffed out of ~$8 cause their recipt machine woudn't take my credit card |
| 03:47.43 | goozbach | now I can't get re-embursed |
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| 03:49.24 | Tene | itsafozz |
| 03:50.09 | findlay | tisatene |
| 03:54.56 | Tene | So, findlay, learned anything new today? |
| 03:55.27 | goozbach | fozzmoo: you get yourself a 755p yet? |
| 03:55.33 | fozzmoo | goozbach: No. |
| 03:55.37 | fozzmoo | No real incentive to do it. |
| 03:55.45 | goozbach | what you packing? the 700p? |
| 03:55.46 | fozzmoo | It's the 700p only smaller. |
| 03:55.51 | fozzmoo | Yeah. 700p |
| 03:56.07 | goozbach | ok, try this: open any application, say the web browser |
| 03:56.15 | goozbach | then pres and hold the home key |
| 03:56.18 | fozzmoo | I'm excited about whatever they do later this year that runs LInux. |
| 03:56.25 | goozbach | s/pres/press/ |
| 03:56.45 | goozbach | did it do anything? |
| 03:56.46 | fozzmoo | for how long? |
| 03:56.55 | goozbach | should only take a second |
| 03:57.01 | goozbach | must not work with the 700 |
| 03:57.03 | fozzmoo | Well, it launched Initiator... |
| 03:57.09 | fozzmoo | (3rd party app) |
| 03:57.16 | goozbach | hmm |
| 03:57.17 | fozzmoo | and then shuffled through my groups. |
| 03:57.21 | fozzmoo | What does yours do? |
| 03:57.35 | goozbach | a small pop-up of the current main page |
| 03:58.01 | fozzmoo | I want Apple's iPhone web browser on my Treo, dammit. |
| 03:58.17 | Tene | you mean... safari? |
| 03:58.27 | fozzmoo | Heh. Is that what they're calling it? |
| 03:58.36 | goozbach | just get IBM's java installed, then install opera |
| 03:58.40 | Tene | Uses webkit. |
| 03:58.50 | fozzmoo | I tried Opera. Sucked. |
| 03:58.53 | fozzmoo | Very unstable. |
| 03:59.03 | fozzmoo | Maybe I should try it again. |
| 03:59.08 | fozzmoo | Maybe they've improved it. |
| 03:59.12 | fozzmoo | But when I tried it. Sucked. |
| 03:59.20 | findlay | are you talking about your trios? |
| 03:59.26 | fozzmoo | TrEos, yeah. |
| 03:59.34 | goozbach | findlay: of course! |
| 03:59.39 | findlay | trio, whatever |
| 03:59.46 | findlay | :) |
| 03:59.49 | goozbach | ok, so for the record... Houston sucks |
| 04:00.01 | goozbach | I take that back, Texas Sucks |
| 04:00.28 | goozbach | with the exception of parts of Austin, and the part of Dallas where my aunt lives |
| 04:01.01 | fozzmoo | goozbach: "What's so great about dumb ole Texas?" |
| 04:01.21 | goozbach | and I'm kinda glad I'm not becomming a Guru full time again. |
| 04:01.36 | goozbach | I can't travel anymore |
| 04:02.09 | fozzmoo | "Don't you dare take the name of Texas in vain!" |
| 04:02.24 | fozzmoo | "You mean we can't say anything bad about dumb ol' Texas?" |
| 04:02.35 | goozbach | my last trip, two weeks ago, I was stuck in one airport or another for over 27 hours |
| 04:02.36 | fozzmoo | "No, you can't!" |
| 04:03.16 | fozzmoo | "I'm Texas! Duh, howdy, y'all! Howdy y'all!" |
| 04:03.25 | fozzmoo | "I'm Texas too! Get a dog little longie! Get a dog!" |
| 04:03.32 | goozbach | the hotel I'm currently in used to be nice, like 15 years ago. |
| 04:04.14 | goozbach | I'm scared to even get in the elevators |
| 04:04.31 | fozzmoo | This where Tene was a week or so ago? |
| 04:04.50 | goozbach | and the bottom of my shower/tub is an unatural color |
| 04:04.55 | goozbach | I don't know |
| 04:05.01 | goozbach | Tene: were you in Houston? |
| 04:05.30 | goozbach | who taught the 033 two weeks ago? any of the Gurus here? |
| 04:05.43 | Tene | No, I was in Dallas. |
| 04:05.47 | fozzmoo | AHhh. |
| 04:05.56 | Tene | I went *through* houston. |
| 04:06.07 | fozzmoo | And the place has never been the same since. |
| 04:06.30 | goozbach | i miss my kitchen |
| 04:10.28 | goozbach | Tene: where are you now? |
| 04:10.42 | Tene | goozbach: Sacramento. |
| 04:10.46 | Tene | Going to Boston next week. |
| 04:12.05 | fozzmoo | goozbach: Were you incapable of, like, getting out of bed before noon before you worked for Guru Labs? |
| 04:13.24 | goozbach | Tene: the sacramento place with the video games? |
| 04:13.27 | goozbach | cool@ |
| 04:13.35 | Tene | yeah |
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| 04:18.47 | levi_home | Man, crazy storm going on right now. |
| 04:19.12 | goozbach | fozzmoo: yes, I was |
| 04:19.32 | fozzmoo | I've observed an amazing transformation in Tene. |
| 04:19.43 | goozbach | and my new job has the following hours: ten-ish to six-ish |
| 04:19.48 | fozzmoo | A transformation I never thought would be possible. |
| 04:20.18 | goozbach | and I only sleep in one saturday a month now |
| 04:20.21 | Tene | fozz: Really thought never possible, or just being dramatic? |
| 04:20.33 | goozbach | the others I'm either out before dawn getting ready for some paintball |
| 04:20.48 | goozbach | or up just as the sun rises to ride my mt bike |
| 04:20.48 | fozzmoo | Tene: I had given up hope. |
| 04:22.03 | goozbach | speaking of giving up hope... |
| 04:22.23 | fozzmoo | heh. |
| 04:44.55 | Tene | findlay: you still up? |
| 04:45.13 | levi_home | I hope this OpenWRT upgrade works... |
| 04:51.44 | klys | what device is it installed on? |
| 04:57.17 | levi_home | A Buffalo router. And it worked just fine. |
| 04:57.23 | levi_home | time to try pppoe again... |
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| 05:11.36 | Tene | http://www.microsoft.com/opensource/default.mspx |
| 05:15.55 | fozzmoo | Those dang PR people at Microsoft. THey're just SO dang good at spinning things. |
| 05:15.59 | levi_home | Whee, got pppoe going now. |
| 05:20.58 | tate | I am a slug |
| 05:21.17 | RyanE | tate: howdy howdy howdy |
| 05:21.21 | RyanE | you're missing out on the huge rain |
| 05:21.36 | tate | wife says there was lots of lightning passing through |
| 05:21.55 | RyanE | yeah, then rain. I fertilized tonight before it swept in. |
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| 05:27.58 | fozzmoo | RyanE: Me too! |
| 05:28.20 | RyanE | fozzmoo: excellent timing... |
| 05:28.47 | RyanE | my neighbor poured cement early this morning. I hope for his sake it's ok with this much water... |
| 05:29.03 | fozzmoo | Should be fine. |
| 05:29.14 | fozzmoo | It'll cure up nice and hard with the water. |
| 05:29.43 | RyanE | yeah, it it would rain for the next 28 curing days, it would be *awesome*... :) |
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| 06:19.53 | levi_home | Whee, I've got QoS going on my openwrt now. |
| 06:52.45 | Supaplex | ~nap yesterday |
| 06:52.45 | ibot | ACTION gives yesterday an extra strength ACME sleeping pill, sending yesterday to sleep for 150 years, and awakening to seven strange dwarfs and a large apple. |
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| 12:48.00 | redbeard2 | tensai: ping |
| 12:48.05 | redbeard2 | did i do that right? |
| 12:51.15 | elg | couldn't have done t better myself |
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| 12:53.25 | elg | redbeard2: hey what did you do? |
| 12:56.36 | elg | has anyone played with the google maps api? |
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| 15:15.08 | goozbach | yay! awesome students! |
| 15:15.57 | goozbach | happy sys admin day |
| 15:17.07 | *** topic/#utah by goozbach -> The channel for content free discussion in Utah | http://plug.org/irc | Utah Open Source Conference - September 6-8, 2007 - https://register.utosc.org | Happy SysAdmin Day! http://www.sysadminday.com/ |
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| 15:18.18 | ^Migs^ | http://tinyurl.com/32qh7f |
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| 15:29.45 | bonez39 | is there a window manager...which will NOT allow applications loading, to jump to top of the Z plane...? Can where an application loads in the z-plane layer be controlled? |
| 15:30.23 | bonez39 | I hate starting to work in one application, only to have the text I am entering .. load into some other application..because it jumped to the top of the pile... |
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| 15:30.48 | sontek | bonez39: enlightenment |
| 15:32.26 | bonez39 | sontek: is 'enlightenment' the only wm that allows that control? |
| 15:32.42 | bonez39 | I run fluxbox lately...but am not sure if this can be controlled with it |
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| 15:42.10 | Tene | bonez39: gnome is pretty good about not popping up applications in front of the window I'm working in. |
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| 15:55.33 | levi | Good morning. |
| 16:01.54 | linuxalien | mornin |
| 16:02.17 | Tene | bonez39: KDE has several options for controlling that behavior explicitly. |
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| 16:24.51 | goozbach | pineapple! |
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| 16:26.42 | sontek | grape! |
| 16:28.35 | Supaplex | banana? |
| 16:29.10 | levi | Hmm, no more Linksys name. |
| 16:36.41 | mrpull | levi: it seems like a natural move for cisco |
| 16:36.54 | mrpull | as long as the low end stuff doesn't tear down their name |
| 16:37.01 | levi | I suppose so. |
| 16:39.06 | dataw0lf | huh |
| 16:39.13 | dataw0lf | from google earth: http://images.pcworld.com/opinion/graphics/134186-04_carParkedOnWall.jpg |
| 16:42.05 | mrpull | dataw0lf: that is cool. i've seen other pictures where buildings are warped, but that is the best i've seen |
| 16:43.30 | dataw0lf | http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,134186/article.html |
| 16:43.33 | dataw0lf | there's the article it's from |
| 16:56.22 | goozbach | ~seen elg |
| 16:56.28 | ibot | elg <n=fugalh@216.31.27.110> was last seen on IRC in channel #utah, 3h 59m 52s ago, saying: 'has anyone played with the google maps api?'. |
| 16:59.32 | levi | http://apcmag.com/6735/interview_con_kolivas |
| 16:59.35 | levi | Sad story. |
| 17:00.09 | levi | And it matches up with the experience I've seen with kernel development. |
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| 17:19.08 | *** topic/#utah is The channel for content free discussion in Utah | http://plug.org/irc | Utah Open Source Conference - September 6-8, 2007 - https://register.utosc.org | Happy SysAdmin Day! http://www.sysadminday.com/ |
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| 19:03.51 | elg | don't let's keep him waiting |
| 19:05.52 | findlay | elg: what's that OSS organ synthesizer you talked about? |
| 19:06.45 | findlay | it would be fun to generate organ music for something like The Art of the Fugue since you would not be constricted by the limitations of two hands and feet |
| 19:06.46 | elg | aeolus |
| 19:07.21 | findlay | since you could put different parts of different voices on completely different keyboards |
| 19:07.51 | findlay | and range all over the whole sound spectrum without having to worry how to keep it manageable for two hands |
| 19:08.04 | findlay | The Art of the Fugue being quite intricate |
| 19:10.02 | findlay | and since Bach deliberately specified no instrument (nor intended it to be performed at all) I find that almost an endorsement of the synthisizer :) |
| 19:10.35 | elg | indeed. but why stick with an organ sound? |
| 19:10.49 | findlay | well, you don't have too |
| 19:11.10 | findlay | as long as the sound of the 'instrument' doesn't get in the way of the polyhony |
| 19:11.43 | elg | naturally |
| 19:11.47 | findlay | which, choosing a synthisizer is to emphasize the polyphony and make it more clear |
| 19:12.14 | findlay | by transcending the limitations of a traditional instrument |
| 19:12.20 | elg | just being able to choose any sound doesn't make every sound as worthy |
| 19:13.43 | Tene | I suspect that The Art of the Fuge wouldn't be quite as nice if performed by ducks. |
| 19:13.59 | findlay | ~duck Tene |
| 19:14.01 | ibot | ACTION gives Tene a fuzzy, ugly little duckling, which immediately grows into a full sized swan and pummels Tene with it's big white wings. |
| 19:15.16 | elg | crutchfield++ |
| 19:23.07 | mrpull | elg: why? |
| 19:23.41 | mrpull | i stopped at circuit city during lunch to look at a couple tv's |
| 19:23.49 | mrpull | what a moron that sales guy was |
| 19:30.06 | elg | just blogged it |
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| 19:30.26 | elg | basically, i ordered a radio with the understanding it wouldn't be in until the 30th. ground shipping |
| 19:30.34 | elg | they got it in today and shipped it out 2nd day air at no cost |
| 19:30.48 | mrpull | it's the best when companies exceed expectations |
| 19:31.07 | elg | *and* they know what they're talking about and if I have any trouble whatever with installing the radio someone can help me |
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| 19:37.07 | mrpull | i asked the sales guy at Circuit City which TV he would buy if he had a $3K budget |
| 19:37.26 | mrpull | he told me he'd get the $5K plasma in the corner |
| 19:37.39 | mrpull | and jumped right into how i'd need to spend $500 on the protection plan |
| 19:37.44 | elg | hehe |
| 19:37.47 | mrpull | and a $150 HDMI cable |
| 19:37.56 | mrpull | and a $500 monster surge suppressor |
| 19:38.08 | elg | maybe he doesn't budget well ;-) |
| 19:38.21 | mrpull | holy cow... his explanations were so canned and soooo incorrect |
| 19:38.36 | findlay | $150 cable? |
| 19:38.40 | mrpull | yeah. what a joker. |
| 19:39.04 | elg | i can't wait until they sell us canned "monster ether" for improved wireless connectivity |
| 19:39.08 | mrpull | i guess it is a bit unfair for me to use a brick and mortar show room if I ultimately plan to buy online |
| 19:39.39 | elg | perhaps, but I think it's unfair for them to hire a minumum wage parrot and expect your business |
| 19:39.43 | mrpull | elg: i kid you not that he told me the Monster HDMI cable was "wound with nitrogen so the bits could move faster" |
| 19:39.58 | nick125 | ................................................ |
| 19:40.00 | findlay | interesting |
| 19:40.01 | elg | awesome! |
| 19:40.10 | elg | nitrogen-infused cables. I love it |
| 19:40.20 | nick125 | They will tell you any amount of bullcrap to make you buy something, eh? |
| 19:40.28 | elg | but I think they should use CO2, then they can pretend they're helping thep lanet |
| 19:40.32 | findlay | elg: you're breathing 78% nitrogen as we speak! |
| 19:40.50 | elg | only 78%? |
| 19:41.01 | mrpull | unbelievable |
| 19:41.32 | findlay | and altitudes |
| 19:41.34 | elg | i guess so. 78.1% |
| 19:42.21 | mrpull | one of the guys here said that the percentages don't actually change with altitude |
| 19:42.32 | findlay | really? |
| 19:42.46 | elg | so my bits aren't running faster than yours? |
| 19:42.49 | mrpull | findlay: i don't have a source to back it up |
| 19:42.52 | findlay | well, I've studied atmospherics before, so I *should* know :) |
| 19:43.02 | mrpull | but the context was fire suppression technology |
| 19:43.07 | elg | mrpull: sure you do - your friends |
| 19:43.23 | elg | you don't have a *good* source, but you have a source ;-) |
| 19:43.44 | ^Migs^ | is there a way, in a mod_rewrite's reg-ex expressions, to force the resulting parameter to lowercase? |
| 19:43.52 | ^Migs^ | e.g., RewriteRule ^test/([A-Za-z0-9]+)/blog$ http://www.wsdstaff.net/$1 [R] <--- I want the $1 to always be lowercase |
| 19:43.53 | elg | having no source is making stuff up, like if I say elephants would grow more hair if the percentage of nitrogen went up |
| 19:44.10 | ^Migs^ | elg said it, it's on the Internet, it must be true |
| 19:44.12 | elg | hence there was more nitrogen during the ice age |
| 19:44.25 | findlay | mrpull: I would expect any altitudinal dependence to be only slight since the thermal motion of the molecules would probably far outperform any inertial or massive characteristics of the several atmospheric species |
| 19:45.13 | elg | i would expect any elephants with extra hair to be as illogical as mainstream america and shave it of |
| 19:45.40 | findlay | ^Migs^: the lower case instruction is \Lstuff you want to lowercase\E |
| 19:45.47 | ^Migs^ | ah okay |
| 19:45.49 | ^Migs^ | thanks |
| 19:45.49 | findlay | for pcre and probably posix RE's too |
| 19:46.48 | ^Migs^ | hmmm, didn't quite work as it should have |
| 19:47.06 | ^Migs^ | RewriteRule ^test/\L([A-Za-z0-9]+)\E/blog$ http://www.wsdstaff.net/$1 [R] ??? |
| 19:47.19 | findlay | if you can figure out mod_rewrite, you are a genius |
| 19:47.24 | findlay | :) |
| 19:48.09 | ^Migs^ | well, I'm working on it |
| 19:48.19 | findlay | ^Migs^: I think you usually put the \L and \E tags on the replacement string, not the matching one |
| 19:48.19 | ^Migs^ | I printed out a little cheat sheet and everything! I'm on my way! |
| 19:48.23 | ^Migs^ | oh |
| 19:48.27 | ^Migs^ | I tried it over there too, actually, no work |
| 19:48.33 | findlay | hm |
| 19:48.37 | findlay | told you |
| 19:48.45 | findlay | mod_rwewrite is occult |
| 19:50.13 | ^Migs^ | this is stupid. Google says to make 26 RewriteRules, one for each letter of the alphabet, to convert to lowercase |
| 19:50.48 | RyanE | I say you write an app that writes RewriteRules... And it shall be named "the RewriterWriter". |
| 19:51.45 | ^Migs^ | and I could make an app that rewrites written RewriteRules, the RewriterWriterRewriter |
| 19:52.24 | RyanE | c |
| 19:52.30 | findlay | d |
| 19:52.31 | RyanE | c'mon, now you're just getting silly. |
| 19:52.41 | RyanE | that ' key is too close to the Enter key for my tastes. |
| 19:52.49 | findlay | s/d/yeah/ |
| 19:53.47 | ^Migs^ | s/and I could make an app that rewrites written RewriteRules, the RewriterWriterRewriter/never mind/ |
| 19:54.07 | RyanE | heh. Knock it off with the rewriting... :) |
| 19:54.21 | findlay | s/d/OK/ |
| 19:54.25 | findlay | :) |
| 19:54.31 | ^Migs^ | ~migs ryane |
| 19:54.34 | ibot | ACTION forces ryane to learn perl from ^Migs^ |
| 19:54.39 | RyanE | ouch |
| 19:54.53 | findlay | with a heavy dose of s///-fu |
| 19:55.17 | RyanE | I try to not play with the bot. I always come out of it looking like an idiot. |
| 20:11.28 | findlay | wow |
| 20:11.42 | findlay | sometimes using a computer is so fun I feel like a kid again |
| 20:13.52 | *** join/#utah mrpull (n=mrpull@205.158.184.126.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 20:18.00 | *** join/#utah graphyx (n=mike@65.88.234.59) |
| 20:18.11 | graphyx | boo |
| 20:18.12 | ^Migs^ | I <3 my pooter |
| 20:18.12 | levi | findlay: What are you doing that's so fun? |
| 20:18.21 | ^Migs^ | everyone else wants to have fun too |
| 20:18.44 | graphyx | there any plug activities any time soon? |
| 20:19.27 | findlay | levi: just playing with virtualizations |
| 20:19.39 | levi | findlay: Like vmware kind of virtualizations? |
| 20:19.43 | findlay | xen |
| 20:21.39 | findlay | except that xen wants me to serve the kickstart file over http? |
| 20:21.54 | findlay | why can't it just read the file |
| 20:27.49 | ^Migs^ | http://www.seattleweekly.com/2007-07-25/news/real-stories-of-metro-transit-s-meanest-weirdest-cheapest-horniest-and-smelliest-passengers.php |
| 20:28.40 | atoponce | what is the javascript of .append() for multidimensional arrays? .concat() or .push() don't seem to be the trick |
| 20:29.10 | levi | I want a Windows virtual machine that'll run on a Linux host that has 3d acceleration. |
| 20:29.34 | dataw0lf | atoponce: it's .concat(), but it creates a new copy, so you have to assign it to something |
| 20:29.49 | atoponce | ahh. that would explain why it's not working |
| 20:29.58 | atoponce | not mutable, eh? |
| 20:30.48 | levi | You'd call it a non-destructive operation. |
| 20:30.51 | dataw0lf | they are, but .push() takes single objects and attaches them, so if you .push(array) you'll get multidimensional |
| 20:31.50 | levi | The data itself may still be mutable even if that particular operation doesn't change them. |
| 20:32.11 | dataw0lf | right |
| 20:33.08 | atoponce | ahh. i see |
| 20:33.22 | graphyx | dataw0lf: howdy man. |
| 20:33.25 | levi | Non-destructive operations are your friends. |
| 20:33.27 | dataw0lf | graphyx: sup |
| 20:33.37 | graphyx | dataw0lf: how long ago you get out of the serice? |
| 20:33.47 | dataw0lf | 2 years |
| 20:33.54 | graphyx | you ever use a Rover? |
| 20:34.13 | dataw0lf | negative |
| 20:34.20 | graphyx | know what they are? |
| 20:35.05 | dataw0lf | yes, why? |
| 20:35.22 | graphyx | The company I work for now is the one that makes those |
| 20:35.26 | graphyx | or at least part of them. |
| 20:35.29 | dataw0lf | ah, word |
| 20:35.32 | dataw0lf | what part? |
| 20:35.45 | graphyx | I think they do the whole receiving unit |
| 20:35.57 | dataw0lf | nice |
| 20:35.57 | graphyx | L-3 communications systems west. |
| 20:36.07 | dataw0lf | http://www.kpho.com/news/13770683/detail.html |
| 20:36.55 | dataw0lf | graphyx: don't they make the BA-ISG? |
| 20:37.01 | graphyx | don't know |
| 20:37.04 | graphyx | they do a lot of stuff. |
| 20:37.09 | dataw0lf | battlefield anti-intrusion system |
| 20:37.15 | dataw0lf | pretty nifty stuff |
| 20:43.58 | atoponce | heh |
| 20:44.20 | atoponce | new_arr[arr.length] = old_arr[i]; // worked great |
| 20:44.35 | atoponce | s/arr./new_arr./ |
| 20:46.32 | ^Migs^ | Tavares' attorney, Susan Kelly Johnston, said his trip to the Waco area was a last-minute decision during a cross-country trip to visit his parents in Arizona. She said he never intended to hurt Anderson and did not think he was in the trailer when he set the fire. |
| 20:46.38 | ^Migs^ | ELM MOTT, Texas (July 26) - A Navy man who got mad when someone mocked him as a "nerd" over the Internet climbed into his car and drove 1,300 miles from Virginia to Texas to teach the other guy a lesson. |
| 20:46.43 | ^Migs^ | When he finally arrived, Tavares burned the guy's trailer down. |
| 20:47.45 | levi | Tavares is the Navy guy? |
| 20:53.27 | *** join/#utah sjansen (n=sjansen@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com) |
| 20:54.11 | dataw0lf | levi: yes. |
| 20:55.34 | sjansen | Anyone here use Unison? |
| 20:55.53 | goozbach | and points his finger |
| 20:56.21 | sjansen | goozbach: You're not fooling anyone. |
| 20:56.23 | mrpull | elg: what stereo did you buy? |
| 21:02.52 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@216.31.27.110) |
| 21:03.23 | *** join/#utah tuple (n=fugalh@216.31.27.110) |
| 21:03.23 | ibot | tickles tuple with a rose bush |
| 21:05.47 | *** join/#utah Lakshmi_ (n=chatzill@adsl-69-109-120-30.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 21:16.47 | goozbach | ok so what was that cool keysequence to grab a window which has gone off the top of your screen? |
| 21:17.59 | mrpull | goozbach: what wm? |
| 21:25.27 | graphyx | anyone in utah willing to help me lay a floor? |
| 21:28.59 | levi | Hmm. |
| 21:29.07 | levi | I wonder what kind of floor graphyx wants to lay. |
| 21:33.29 | *** join/#utah linuxalien (n=linuxali@macintard.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 21:38.41 | goozbach | mrpull: I've been playing with metacity |
| 21:38.50 | goozbach | metacity combined with compiz |
| 21:39.09 | goozbach | the whole workspaces vs viewports is killing me |
| 21:49.51 | nick125 | They say 1-3GB a month is "normal". |
| 21:55.49 | Shadowwire | Hey |
| 21:56.57 | Shadowwire | I had a charge for 700 dollars on my wireless one month because I went over by a lot. |
| 21:57.25 | nick125 | Shadowwire: Ouch. |
| 21:57.35 | nick125 | Some providers will take a chunk off if you upgrade you plan. |
| 21:57.52 | Shadowwire | Of coarse it wasnt mine personaly. It was a buisness wireless with vpn to main office. |
| 21:58.05 | nick125 | Oh. Data-wise. |
| 21:58.09 | Shadowwire | however nowhere on the agreement did it state that there was a limit. |
| 21:58.09 | nick125 | What provider? |
| 21:58.35 | elg | goozbach: frequently alt or meta and drag will move windows that haven't title bars |
| 22:00.51 | Shadowwire | The provider was qwest |
| 22:01.45 | nick125 | Shadowwire: What kind of wireless are we talking? |
| 22:02.05 | Shadowwire | Q-west sucked big fat monkey wang. Now we have a McLoed T1 |
| 22:02.28 | nick125 | Are we talking about fixed wireless or cellular data? |
| 22:02.34 | Shadowwire | It was a Point to point about 4 miles. |
| 22:02.40 | Shadowwire | Sorry |
| 22:02.53 | mrpull | Shadowwire: probably still riding on the qwest infrastructure |
| 22:02.59 | nick125 | What the heck.. |
| 22:03.11 | Shadowwire | Yea, Im sure. Rotten Qwest |
| 22:03.21 | nick125 | I've never heard of a provider charging that huge amount of an overage on a business class service. |
| 22:04.05 | Shadowwire | We got out of it because they made a mistake and set up our billing as a home user. |
| 22:04.10 | nick125 | I trust qwest about as far as I can throw them. |
| 22:04.22 | Shadowwire | I dont trust them that far. |
| 22:04.24 | nick125 | I was talking to my ISP, and, we were sharing stories. |
| 22:04.36 | Shadowwire | nice |
| 22:04.40 | nick125 | The guy at my ISP had to put an ADSL order in for 4 circuits *4* times. |
| 22:04.48 | nick125 | because they kept screwing it up |
| 22:04.55 | Shadowwire | typical |
| 22:05.38 | nick125 | The only way to get decent tech support on residential/business ADSL circuits is to ask for an american agent. |
| 22:05.55 | nick125 | Because the outsourced reps are worthless. |
| 22:06.21 | nick125 | They tell you to reset your modem, if that doesn't work, blame your computer and your network, if that doesn't work, send a tech out. |
| 22:06.38 | levi | elg: So, which stereo did you get? |
| 22:07.10 | elg | pioneer deh1900 |
| 22:07.15 | nick125 | The only reason I'm still using qwest is because of my awesome ISP. |
| 22:07.51 | Shadowwire | we ask Qwest to change one of our DIDs yesterday, and they changes them all to the same name. |
| 22:07.55 | elg | btw if anyone will be a first-time crutchfield customer soon and wants to save $20.. |
| 22:08.08 | Shadowwire | yeah right. |
| 22:08.19 | nick125 | Shadowwire: Changing the CID name? |
| 22:08.54 | Shadowwire | No, Data ID for VOIP |
| 22:10.04 | nick125 | I swear you can't do anything with Qwest without them screwing it up beyond belief. |
| 22:10.05 | Shadowwire | Sorry, Direct Inward Dialing. |
| 22:10.32 | Shadowwire | Altell is just as bad on cell service. |
| 22:10.32 | nick125 | I wouldn't trust Qwest for VoIP. |
| 22:11.04 | nick125 | I've heard mixed things about them. And about every cellular carrier. |
| 22:11.12 | Shadowwire | Actualy we use a shoretel system, but quest has to set up stuff on there end. |
| 22:11.36 | Shadowwire | Altel sucks in so ut |
| 22:11.43 | nick125 | I've been using vitelity here for a few DIDs, they seem pretty decent. |
| 22:11.55 | Shadowwire | I get my voice mails 3 days late. |
| 22:12.16 | *** join/#utah jlp_work (n=jlp@gateway.FREECAKENETWORKS.com) |
| 22:12.26 | nick125 | Shadowwire: That's worthless. |
| 22:12.30 | Shadowwire | indeed |
| 22:12.31 | nick125 | Have you called them? |
| 22:12.40 | nick125 | If so, what did they say? Get used to it? |
| 22:12.48 | Shadowwire | everyone in my company has called them. |
| 22:12.56 | Shadowwire | pretty much |
| 22:13.43 | Shadowwire | they blamed it on updates, however i update mine at least once a month. |
| 22:13.52 | levi | elg: Nice. |
| 22:13.52 | nick125 | I think every communications company sucks (cable/cellular/telco), some less than others. |
| 22:14.10 | Shadowwire | True... true. |
| 22:14.33 | nick125 | Usually the ones that don't suck are so small that they don't make a difference. |
| 22:15.17 | atoponce | http://blog.wired.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/07/27/lekowicz.jpg |
| 22:15.46 | Shadowwire | thats rich. |
| 22:15.57 | Shadowwire | anyone here ever set up port trunking? |
| 22:16.31 | Shadowwire | Im trying to port trunk fibre on two procurve switches. |
| 22:16.54 | findlay | I've seen a tree trunk before |
| 22:17.03 | Shadowwire | was it nice? |
| 22:17.08 | findlay | yeah |
| 22:17.12 | Shadowwire | cool... |
| 22:17.14 | mrpull | Shadowwire: not on a procurve |
| 22:17.27 | Shadowwire | on what? mrpull. |
| 22:17.56 | Shadowwire | Perhaps its similar? |
| 22:18.09 | Shadowwire | I keep getting fatal colisions. |
| 22:18.13 | levi | findlay: I own a few tree trunks now. One of them is dead, though. |
| 22:18.42 | Shadowwire | levi: murderer! |
| 22:18.58 | levi | Shadowwire: I didn't kill it. It was dead when I bought the place. |
| 22:19.07 | Shadowwire | sure it was. |
| 22:19.11 | levi | Along with half of the lawn. |
| 22:19.21 | *** join/#utah tuxd00d (n=tuxinato@166.129.160.202) |
| 22:19.21 | Shadowwire | genicide. |
| 22:19.22 | levi | The weeds were most certainly not dead, though. |
| 22:19.33 | Tene | Teaching is fun. :) |
| 22:19.42 | Shadowwire | oh. sure. Blame the weeds. |
| 22:20.22 | Shadowwire | What did that trunk and that grass ever do to you? |
| 22:21.43 | Shadowwire | wow, did you see that? |
| 22:22.26 | mrpull | Shadowwire: cisco |
| 22:24.32 | Shadowwire | mrpull: was it difficult? |
| 22:25.02 | Shadowwire | sure got quiet in here all the sudden. . |
| 22:25.30 | mrpull | it can be on certain switches. are you trunking (combining vlan traffic over the same port) or doing etherchannel (combining multiple interfaces into one logical interface) |
| 22:26.29 | mrpull | i've seen some 6500's that just wont keep an etherchannel link up |
| 22:26.45 | Shadowwire | Im trying to get the two Fibre ports to share the load. |
| 22:27.19 | mrpull | is more than one vlan going over that link? |
| 22:27.39 | Shadowwire | These HP Procurves wernt that expensive. 2300 each. |
| 22:27.54 | Shadowwire | I dont think so.? |
| 22:29.17 | Shadowwire | nick125: Get a job with a big company, theyll pay for the rest. |
| 22:29.20 | levi | nick125: It's a pain to work with, and if you don't actually need it, it's no more useful than your typical consumer grade networking equipment. |
| 22:29.40 | Shadowwire | True. |
| 22:30.12 | Shadowwire | sometimes i think a couple of netgears would be better. :) |
| 22:30.26 | levi | Unmanaged switches are sometimes /slower/ than a cheapo consumer grade switch, since the latter is usually all implemented in a couple of ASICs. |
| 22:30.47 | levi | Whereas managed switches have to add management software overhead. |
| 22:31.13 | Shadowwire | Cant argue with that. |
| 22:31.28 | elg | why not? |
| 22:31.46 | Shadowwire | They are definatly a pain. |
| 22:32.05 | *** join/#utah linuxalien (n=linuxali@macintard.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 22:32.12 | mrpull | Shadowwire: give hp a call |
| 22:33.06 | Shadowwire | Yea, I guess Ill have to. :( |
| 22:33.37 | Shadowwire | elg: go ahead, argue. see what happens. |
| 22:34.02 | elg | i don't have to prove anything. you're the one that said you couldn't argue |
| 22:34.20 | Shadowwire | Because levi had a good point. |
| 22:34.50 | elg | if every troll stopped arguing just because someone had a good point... |
| 22:34.56 | mrpull | Shadowwire: are you using the command line or the web interface? |
| 22:35.02 | elg | oh, perhaps you don't want to be a troll? I hadn't thought of that |
| 22:35.06 | Shadowwire | Web interface. |
| 22:35.13 | mrpull | i vaguely remember the web interface on the procurves being pretty nice |
| 22:35.34 | Shadowwire | Yea. It seem to be pretty straight forward. |
| 22:35.49 | mrpull | maybe you have it set up correctly and there is a hardware failure |
| 22:35.57 | levi | The serial console menus on procurves are nice, too. |
| 22:36.21 | levi | I've only fiddled with them a bit to enable SNMP management. |
| 22:36.22 | mrpull | yeah... the procurve is a decent platform from my recollection. |
| 22:36.32 | Shadowwire | Only used the serial console once to set the IPs |
| 22:37.00 | levi | The older ones support CDP, which is nice when you're trying to discover your network topology. |
| 22:37.02 | Shadowwire | We rely on them hevily |
| 22:37.24 | levi | Alas, we don't sell HP switches anymore. |
| 22:38.06 | Shadowwire | Cisco Discovery Protocol? |
| 22:38.38 | Shadowwire | Im not familier |
| 22:39.40 | Shadowwire | So, anyone ever torn up a car with a trackhoe? |
| 22:39.50 | Shadowwire | I did last weekend. |
| 22:39.53 | mrpull | Shadowwire: not yet |
| 22:40.15 | Shadowwire | I need to post the pics somewhere. |
| 22:40.40 | Shadowwire | I dont think Ive ever had more fun in all my life. |
| 22:41.36 | levi | CDP lets switches announce their presence to one another, so they know which ports they connect to each other on. |
| 22:42.15 | Shadowwire | Seems like you would need a lot of swiches that support CDP for that to work. |
| 22:44.33 | Shadowwire | it looks like the procurves abandoned CDP in favor of FEC |
| 22:45.03 | Shadowwire | Holy Crap! |
| 22:45.58 | mrpull | isn't FEC their version of aggregating links? |
| 22:46.24 | mrpull | CDP is more for convenience than anything... not enhancing connectivity |
| 22:46.25 | Shadowwire | Im sorry I read that wrong. |
| 22:46.37 | Shadowwire | LLDP |
| 22:46.39 | mrpull | Shadowwire: what are you Holy Crapping? |
| 22:47.14 | levi | Yes LLDP is the new standard for doing the sort of stuff CDP does. |
| 22:47.21 | Shadowwire | Uh... Nothing. just trying to get a response. Its kind of dead in here. |
| 22:47.30 | levi | It's newly-standardized, though. |
| 22:47.47 | Shadowwire | By newly you mean?... |
| 22:47.56 | levi | In the last year or two, I think. |
| 22:48.03 | Shadowwire | I see. |
| 22:48.08 | mrpull | IETF standard or HP standard? |
| 22:48.29 | Shadowwire | HP i beleive. |
| 22:48.36 | levi | No, IEEE |
| 22:48.53 | mrpull | looks like 802.1AB... vendor neutral |
| 22:48.55 | levi | It's 802.1AB |
| 22:49.00 | mrpull | it's new to me too |
| 22:49.23 | levi | I did a bunch of research on network topology discovery a few months ago. |
| 22:49.30 | Shadowwire | I guess new is the general concensus. |
| 22:49.51 | Shadowwire | Learn anything cool you could share? |
| 22:50.06 | mrpull | Shadowwire: are you saturating the link between the switches or just playing around? |
| 22:50.38 | Shadowwire | Both switches are in use everyday. |
| 22:50.51 | mrpull | and the utilization of the link between them? |
| 22:50.55 | levi | Well, I found some interesting papers on mapping out large heterogeneous networks. |
| 22:51.19 | mrpull | levi: what tool did you find was the best? |
| 22:51.19 | Shadowwire | mrpull: as in how much bandwidth used? |
| 22:51.37 | levi | mrpull: Depends on the situation and what kind of network you're trying to map. |
| 22:51.49 | mrpull | yes. why aggregate the link if you don't need to? simplest solution is the best one. |
| 22:52.12 | mrpull | levi: it depends is my favorite answer to give and least favorite to be given |
| 22:52.27 | mrpull | levi: what about homogenious... cisco in particular |
| 22:52.51 | levi | For the particular task of discovering and mapping out a new cluster, I user perl and net-snmp to pull the BRIDGE-MIB entries from the switches, and the CDP tables if they're available. |
| 22:52.52 | mrpull | s/homogenious/homogeneous/ |
| 22:53.17 | Shadowwire | Yes I agree. We have about 20 computers utilizing the link between the two buildings now, on a gigabit UTP |
| 22:54.06 | levi | Since our cluster nodes all send out dhcp requests when initially booting, I listen for incoming DHCP requests (at which point I know their addresses will be in the BRIDGE-MIB tables) and then query the switches to find out which switch and port they belong to. |
| 22:54.11 | mrpull | levi: i've used NNM in the past... i'd like to see a similar tool that is Free |
| 22:54.41 | mrpull | levi: sounds like a great solution to your problem... i'm looking for a more generic app :-/ |
| 22:54.56 | levi | Actually, I looked at a couple of free network mapping tools that worked on a similar principle to the one I used, but more general. |
| 22:55.06 | levi | I don't recall the names anymore, though. |
| 22:55.44 | levi | Oh, hey, I still have all that stuff stashed away. |
| 22:55.56 | levi | I think 'netdisco' was the best tool I found at the time. |
| 22:56.38 | levi | IIRC, it does ping-scans and passive discovery combined with SNMP-probing of managed switches. |
| 22:57.21 | levi | One of the papers covered topology discovery in the presence of unmanaged switches, but it required having software installed on the leaf systems. |
| 22:58.02 | Shadowwire | leaf system? |
| 22:58.14 | Shadowwire | Oh, never mind. |
| 22:58.16 | mrpull | in reality, my networks are super simple and easy enough to maintain the topology by hand |
| 22:58.28 | levi | It's a tricky problem, since you want to discover the Ethernet topology and Ethernet Bridges were specifically designed to be invisible to higher-layer protocols. |
| 22:58.29 | Shadowwire | that is good. |
| 22:59.05 | mrpull | true, is there a layer 2 traceroute tool? |
| 22:59.33 | Shadowwire | I guess my networks are pretty easy to maintain as well. However I didnt set up the vast majority. |
| 22:59.49 | levi | Our clusters are pretty darn easy, topology-wise, but we need to gather the MAC addresses and associate them with some idea of where the node is. |
| 23:00.16 | levi | When you rack up a few hundred nodes at once and one of them misbehaves... |
| 23:00.27 | mrpull | levi: it'd be cool if you burn the mac address according to the rack location |
| 23:00.51 | nick125 | Yay, compusa just called. After 6 weeks of fighting, they said they fixed the issue with the warranty and they will fix it now. |
| 23:00.52 | Shadowwire | I prepared a spreadsheet with all the macs intended ips and other usefull info when I started here. |
| 23:00.54 | levi | mrpull: Well, the point of this tool was to assign an IP based on the location in the switch topology. |
| 23:01.43 | levi | mrpull: If I get to work on it some more, I'll add a way to specify which switches and ports service which racks, which will allow a MAC->physical location mapping. |
| 23:02.58 | levi | Before the project got axed, I was working on a system with custom hardware that would give our management device an electronic signal signifying its location in the system. It was pretty slick. |
| 23:03.56 | mrpull | clusters are fascinating. i've never been able to dig into them beyond little 5-10 node lab experiments |
| 23:04.43 | Shadowwire | what kind of bandwidth do you think would be required for 20 computers running pos and typical internet use? |
| 23:05.16 | mrpull | Shadowwire: a lot less than 1GB |
| 23:05.34 | mrpull | setup cacti (or similar) and start measuring the actual use :) |
| 23:05.43 | Shadowwire | Oh, and 20 Voip phones |
| 23:05.48 | levi | mrpull: The big ones are remarkably similar to the small ones, software-wise. They just have fancier interconnect hardware. |
| 23:05.55 | mrpull | (i guess I should say less than 1 Gbps |
| 23:05.56 | Shadowwire | cacti, ok |
| 23:06.18 | levi | Measuring is always better than SWAG. |
| 23:06.34 | Shadowwire | true |
| 23:10.16 | Shadowwire | anyone seen klys? |
| 23:13.36 | Supaplex | http://rafb.net/p/to0Jr351.html check out line 16 :P |
| 23:26.30 | levi | That's some hardcore idling. |
| 23:28.37 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@216.31.27.110) |
| 23:28.51 | levi | Ack, I was waiting for a long time to see if I was going to get a recurrence of the situation that caused the bug I was trying to fix. It turns out I'd introduced another bug that ensured it would never get far enough for the previous one to happen. :P |
| 23:29.01 | levi | Now it looks like I've fixed both bugs. |
| 23:30.31 | Shadowwire | Sup levi? |
| 23:33.36 | levi | I'm hooking together a couple of open source projects for monitoring clusters. |
| 23:52.44 | Shadowwire | Im outa here! |
