| 00:02.36 | Supaplex | haha yeah. :P |
| 00:11.59 | *** join/#utah spr (i=spr@conference/oscon/x-f5daa332056565de) |
| 00:33.20 | *** join/#utah mheath (n=mheath@c-76-23-0-191.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 01:06.13 | mheath | How does Apple's Itunes encryption work? |
| 01:06.17 | mheath | You can authorize up to 5 computers |
| 01:06.35 | mheath | But then you can deauthorize all of them... |
| 01:06.58 | mheath | And computers don't have to be network connected to play, so theres no way for the deauthorized computers to necessarily know they've been deauthorized |
| 01:07.04 | Tene | And then you get to lose all of your music? |
| 01:10.59 | mheath | Well, I thought it was lost |
| 01:11.23 | mheath | Becuase I didn't know there was a way to deauthorize accounts other than throught he Advanced -> Deauthorize Account thing, and you have to do that on the computer thats authorized |
| 01:11.53 | mheath | But then I found out that if you login to the Itunes Store, in your account settings, you can deauthorize all authorized computers |
| 01:14.28 | mheath | Anyway |
| 01:14.49 | mheath | I think this is a good reflect of how few themes there are for Thunderbird, when this ends up on the popular themes list: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/images/addon_preview/221/1 |
| 01:15.31 | chadbryant | an e-mail client seems to 1990s |
| 01:15.40 | chadbryant | especially if you have a Gmail account |
| 01:15.46 | chadbryant | er, *so* 1990s |
| 01:16.06 | \me | or facebook |
| 01:16.09 | mheath | I have Gmail. |
| 01:16.26 | \me | e-mail is *so* 1990s |
| 01:16.51 | mheath | Grr |
| 01:17.15 | mheath | Why do websites block IE now? or put up nasty things that mess up the page talking how you'll be so much hapier if you install Firefox? |
| 01:17.29 | mheath | Firefox users used to complain about how IE pages did that, and how stupid that was |
| 01:17.32 | \me | that's *so* 1990s |
| 01:17.49 | mheath | And now they turn around and do the same thing, now that they've gained a big enough market share for it to be reasonably realistic |
| 01:18.27 | chadbryant | if it's your bank's website blocking IE, I think it's a great idea |
| 01:18.49 | mheath | Peoples blogs, and stuff |
| 01:18.57 | mheath | They usually don't block it, only seen a few that do that |
| 01:19.35 | mheath | but tons now put big annoying "OMG YOUR RUNNING IE YOU SUCK, GET FIREFOX, YOU'LL LOVE IT, HERES THE DOWNLOAD LINK BECAUSE I'M SURE YOU'LL HAVE TROUBLE FINDING IT IF I DON'T GIVE YOU A NICE ANIMATED FIREFOX LOGO TO CLICK ON TO TAKE YOU THERE!" things on there site |
| 01:19.52 | \me | mheath: they probably get a commission on you downloading it |
| 01:20.00 | \me | makes more sense for the firefox ones |
| 01:20.04 | *** join/#utah sinuhe (n=sinuhe@72.16.250.178) |
| 01:20.19 | chadbryant | that's a bit extreme, but I'm not against encouraging people to download a better browser |
| 01:20.22 | \me | google adsense offers that as an option |
| 01:20.23 | chadbryant | Firefox or Opera |
| 01:20.30 | mheath | chadbryant, Sure |
| 01:20.35 | mheath | Tell your friends |
| 01:20.48 | mheath | WRITE _in_ your blog about it |
| 01:20.55 | mheath | But don't break your site for it |
| 01:21.04 | \me | not as many people will click on it and make you money that way |
| 01:21.13 | mheath | Thats the same retarded crap they used to complain about IE only sites doing, in reverse.. |
| 01:21.26 | Tene | And it "breaks" the site... how? |
| 01:21.35 | \me | actually, mozilla/netscape was the first to do it |
| 01:21.50 | \me | before IE became popular sites used to write for Netscape only all the time |
| 01:22.10 | mheath | Tene, I have to scroll down an entire page sometimes just to get to content |
| 01:22.29 | mheath | Its not broken or preventing directly, just annoying |
| 01:22.43 | \me | mheath: then don't read their blog, or download via rss :-) |
| 01:22.54 | mheath | Never gotten into RSS |
| 01:23.03 | mheath | Its actually starting to annoy me, RSS |
| 01:23.10 | \me | I never read blogs outside rss |
| 01:23.22 | mheath | Seems like everyone wants to stuff every bit of data into RSS now, whether or not thats an appropriate format for it or not |
| 01:23.48 | \me | rss is awesome, as I don't have to continually keep track of which sites I watch |
| 01:24.22 | sinuhe | mheath: agreed. RSS 1.0 at least--RDF--is a description format, not a blog format. I use it to index significant new changes for my website. |
| 01:24.53 | sinuhe | I'm dying of shock: mheath and I agree for once. :-) |
| 01:25.11 | mheath | Hmm, did M$ get rid of their Program Access and Defaults thing in Vista? |
| 01:25.22 | mheath | Used to be, you could set it up so that IE was hidden completely |
| 01:25.27 | mheath | No Icons, wouldn't run, etc. |
| 01:25.46 | mheath | Now their "Set Default Programs" dialog is just a beautified file extensions associations editor |
| 01:26.04 | mheath | Ah, nevermind, theres a seperate dialog. |
| 01:26.10 | mheath | sinuhe, Shocking, isn't it? |
| 01:27.55 | sinuhe | mheath: Re: M$ I wouldn't know. I haven't used proprietary software since 1998/9 (probably 9. I seem to remember dual booting with BackOffice 2.5 for a bit). |
| 01:28.12 | sinuhe | mheath: Re: shocking. More like frightening. :-P |
| 01:29.17 | Tene | wtf, sinuhe and mheath agree on technology? |
| 01:30.02 | mheath | Yah, openoffice.org sends me to a download mirror that downloads at 8 KB/sec! |
| 01:30.09 | mheath | All I have to do is wait 3 hours! Yah! |
| 01:30.53 | mheath | Does any one have any success or horror stories with Google Groups? |
| 01:31.17 | chadbryant | it seems to break every otherb month or so |
| 01:31.18 | rsimpkins | A lot of people say they like it. |
| 01:31.30 | elg | i liked it better in the old days |
| 01:31.42 | elg | i hardly use it anymore, since it's several clicks deep to get to |
| 01:31.49 | mheath | I'm recommending it to some people for a few mailing lists we're looking to setup. |
| 01:31.59 | elg | i liked it when you could click on the groups link and get the same search in groups instantly |
| 01:32.16 | mheath | elg, no, not just viewing...their groups hosting, is mainly what I'm asking about |
| 01:32.50 | mheath | Comcast has been improviing lately. My connection often beaks at over 1 MB /sec.. |
| 01:32.54 | mheath | *peaks |
| 01:34.15 | mheath | atoponce: have you ran into any problems with OALUG's discussion stuff? |
| 01:34.28 | atoponce | what do you mean? |
| 01:34.56 | mheath | I'm recommending google groups to a few people for mailing lists; I was wondering if you've ever had any difficulties with it. |
| 01:35.21 | atoponce | oh. nope. not at all. i love google groups. very nice |
| 01:36.34 | mheath | Good |
| 01:36.47 | mheath | These people have responded negatively to the idea of mailing lists in the past... |
| 01:37.27 | mheath | But then, theres been a few cases lately of people deciding to just copy the TO and CC lists from other e-mails to start their new discussions... |
| 01:37.35 | atoponce | mheath: the nice thing with google groups, aside from it being a great mailing list, is the rss feed from the list. if you don't want to subscribe to the mailing list, but still read the posts, the rss feed is great |
| 01:37.40 | mheath | And they end up sending their stuff to wildly inappropriate people |
| 01:37.53 | mheath | So I figured that a new mailing list suggestion was in order |
| 01:38.09 | mheath | atoponce, meh, won't be used in my case. But thats a cool feature. |
| 01:39.18 | atoponce | aside from the lack of being able to post to the list, rss > mailing lists |
| 01:39.27 | *** join/#utah nick125_treo (n=upirc@m320e36d0.tmodns.net) |
| 01:39.58 | nick125_treo | hello everyone |
| 01:40.25 | mheath | ~steal nick125_treo's treo |
| 01:40.25 | ibot | ACTION grabs nick125_treo's treo and gives it to mheath |
| 01:40.51 | nick125_treo | mheath: I have the worthles insurance on it for a reason |
| 01:41.01 | mheath | Well, OK |
| 01:41.07 | mheath | You 'lose' it, and get a new one, OK? |
| 01:41.13 | nick125_treo | *worthless |
| 01:41.14 | nick125_treo | hahah |
| 01:41.34 | nick125_treo | they require a police report for theft/loss |
| 01:41.48 | mheath | atoponce, I was going to tell you, I love the list you have at http://www.pthree.org/the-ultimate-firefox-extension-list-for-junkies/ |
| 01:41.52 | mheath | But do you keep that updated? |
| 01:45.28 | atoponce | i haven't updated it in a while |
| 01:45.30 | atoponce | i need to |
| 01:45.47 | atoponce | i've been meaning to get to it for the past few weeks, actually |
| 01:46.28 | mheath | Grr, I wish I could find good open source gallery software... elg (I think he was him) was right when he said their wasn't any. |
| 01:47.19 | nick125_treo | gallery 2 was okay in my opinion. |
| 01:47.31 | mheath | It's too heavy.. |
| 01:47.43 | nick125_treo | agreed. |
| 01:48.11 | Tene | mheath: I'd be interested in reading up a specification for your ideal software here. |
| 01:48.19 | nick125_treo | but, it has a decent feature set |
| 01:48.20 | Tene | If you're interested in bothering to write such a document. |
| 01:48.52 | mheath | Tene, Which ideal software? :P Gallery stuff? |
| 01:49.01 | Tene | Yeah. |
| 01:49.34 | mheath | Isn't much to write. |
| 01:49.41 | mheath | Just combine stuff from various other things |
| 01:49.59 | mheath | I like Picassa in that it organizes photos, etc, and lets you update to a web gallery |
| 01:50.11 | mheath | But dislike that said web gallery is only accessible by one account |
| 01:50.31 | \me | I use picasa too - only prob I have with it is no tagging like flickr |
| 01:50.47 | mheath | I wish I could have a program like Picassa that will automatically resize and such + the ability to upload to a better place I host myself |
| 01:50.53 | \me | I agree w/ the one account thing too - they need to allow better sharing |
| 01:51.08 | \me | mheath: you can write buttons for picasa that will upload other places |
| 01:51.09 | mheath | \me, Oddly, picassaweb supports tagging but picasa doesn't. |
| 01:51.22 | \me | mheath: does it? I've never seen that feature before |
| 01:51.45 | \me | I've noticed tags, but not in the way flickr does it - you can just give it tag keywords for each photo |
| 01:52.27 | *** join/#utah klys_ (n=admini@72.8.101.65) |
| 01:56.20 | nick125_treo | brb |
| 01:58.16 | nick125 | hiya |
| 02:13.47 | *** join/#utah vontrapp (n=von@70.102.163.132) |
| 02:14.02 | vontrapp | ~dict plethora |
| 02:14.15 | vontrapp | i need a verb form |
| 02:14.24 | vontrapp | plethorate? |
| 02:14.31 | vontrapp | plethorize? |
| 02:14.43 | vontrapp | maybe a different word with the same connotation |
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| 02:34.10 | levi_home | vontrapp: Maybe if you described what you mean in other words I could come up with something. |
| 02:34.22 | levi_home | 'plethorate' doesn't even seem meaningful to me. |
| 02:34.50 | levi_home | The closest I can think of is 'multiply' |
| 02:36.52 | vontrapp | coconuts will (become such that there is a plethora) |
| 02:38.56 | *** join/#utah fozzmoo (n=fozz@166-70-238-250.ip.xmission.com) |
| 02:46.04 | fozzmoo | After spending time with Lance Armstrong, John Edwards was quoted as saying, "My butt hurts. Is that normal?" |
| 02:48.45 | *** join/#utah Lakshmi__ (n=chatzill@adsl-69-109-171-146.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 02:49.03 | Tene | fozzmoo: who is John Edwards, and why should I care that his butt hurts? |
| 02:49.22 | fozzmoo | Do you remember John Kerry? |
| 02:49.36 | fozzmoo | He ran for president in 2004. |
| 02:49.46 | fozzmoo | John Edwards was his VP running mate. |
| 02:49.48 | Tene | 'kay |
| 02:49.52 | Tene | And the second part? |
| 02:49.55 | fozzmoo | He's running for president again for 2008. |
| 02:50.13 | fozzmoo | He doesn't really have a chance considering the attention Hillary Clinton and Barak Obama are getting. |
| 02:50.23 | fozzmoo | Anyway... I gotta run. I'll explain the rest later if you're still lost. |
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| 02:54.37 | *** join/#utah Zelut (n=christer@ubuntu/member/zelut) |
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| 03:15.51 | mheath | Odd, X-Chat crashed while I was away.. |
| 03:26.58 | Supaplex | ahhh pity. |
| 03:27.47 | chadbryant | ~dict ochlocracy |
| 03:27.58 | *** join/#utah bmidgley2 (n=brad@80.sub-70-192-165.myvzw.com) |
| 03:28.13 | chadbryant | heh, that's my new favorite word |
| 03:28.32 | nick125 | Dangit, I just realized I forgot to turn the debug flag off in my release. Oh well. |
| 03:28.40 | Supaplex | ewps. :P |
| 03:30.14 | *** join/#utah jayce_home (i=jayce@conference/oscon/x-fb32a271804afcbf) |
| 03:30.17 | nick125 | I guess there's a reason it's alpha. |
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| 03:47.30 | *** join/#utah synic (n=squish@pdpc/supporter/student/synic) |
| 03:52.15 | nick125 | Yay, just hit over 800 lines of code/documentation |
| 03:52.40 | nick125 | (50.06% of it is documentation) |
| 03:57.22 | mheath | Hmm, Netflix has movie downloads now |
| 03:58.58 | elg | for windows |
| 03:59.03 | elg | xp sp2 or vista |
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| 03:59.17 | mheath | OK? |
| 03:59.17 | elg | sounds suspiciously like drm (or pseudo-drm) |
| 03:59.20 | elg | no thanks |
| 03:59.26 | mheath | uh, of course it has DRM |
| 03:59.29 | mheath | what did you expect? |
| 03:59.34 | elg | nothing else |
| 03:59.39 | mheath | Uh, here, you can rent this movie |
| 03:59.41 | elg | what did you expect? |
| 03:59.45 | elg | we would jump with joy? |
| 03:59.56 | mheath | But just make sure you delete it from your hard drive when you're done |
| 03:59.58 | mheath | Promise? |
| 04:00.26 | elg | not so different from "here, you can rent this movie, but be sure you don't rip it" |
| 04:00.26 | mheath | They could change their slogan to "Netflix - Movie Rental Downloads on the Honor System, because we have faith in America's integrity" |
| 04:00.44 | elg | people used to, you know |
| 04:00.53 | elg | you're too young to remember of course |
| 04:04.51 | mheath | The Anti-DRM argument doesn't work with rentals |
| 04:05.21 | mheath | The only kind of anti-DRM arugment I sympathize with is that people should be able to do what they want with things they own |
| 04:05.30 | mheath | And in that case, I'm more supportive of open standards that support DRM. |
| 04:08.00 | elg | the anti drm arguments work fine, whether you believe they do or not |
| 04:12.24 | mheath | I feel that artists should have control over the things they create. |
| 04:12.54 | RyanE | artists don't. The record labels do. |
| 04:12.55 | mheath | And I don't think its bad that they employ certain techniques that allow you to still enjoy their art, and still not allow illegal use |
| 04:13.12 | mheath | RyanE, then thats the artists problem, in the contract they signed. |
| 04:13.47 | elg | why should artists have control over what they produce any more than the guy that makes cars? |
| 04:14.03 | mheath | elg, The two industries aren't comparable! |
| 04:14.04 | elg | or shoes |
| 04:14.14 | elg | why not? because you've been lead to believe they're not |
| 04:14.21 | mheath | A comparable violation would be you taking and making an exact replica of your car |
| 04:14.25 | mheath | and selling it as that type of car |
| 04:14.27 | elg | or the code monkey that churns out php code for his company |
| 04:14.31 | mheath | In which case that WOULD be illegal |
| 04:14.45 | elg | why? |
| 04:15.03 | mheath | Because car manufacturers can copyright and patent features of their car. |
| 04:15.06 | elg | what if we did have star trek replicators? would you go around telling people they can't replicate a certain kind of souffle? |
| 04:15.21 | elg | mheath: that's not natural |
| 04:15.32 | JoshH | you should be able to do whatever you want with any artists work, once you have paid for a copy, short of making your own copies for profit |
| 04:15.34 | RyanE | sorry, I created it. It's my intellectual property. My souffle'. |
| 04:15.54 | JoshH | if you want to edit your own copy of a book, painting, dvd, software, song, that should be fine |
| 04:15.55 | mheath | elg, It takes a certain romance out of life, a certain bit of interest, of anticipation, of excitement. |
| 04:16.05 | mheath | I would hope that mankind wouldn't want to replicate everything even if they had said replicator |
| 04:16.53 | elg | but don't you see, by getting all uptight about "artist's rights" you are supporting the very demise of creativity |
| 04:16.55 | mheath | It kills a lot of things if you'd be able to just copy a masterwork painting, or replicate a centuries old master craftsman made violin, or copy the food made by an amazing chef. |
| 04:17.09 | JoshH | depends what you do with that copy |
| 04:17.12 | elg | when music belonged to nobody, everybody made music |
| 04:17.32 | elg | when music belongs to brittney spears, then people are intimidated because they're not brittney spears |
| 04:17.34 | mheath | Music has always belonged to somebody |
| 04:17.37 | elg | nonsense |
| 04:17.44 | elg | you don't know the first thing about music history |
| 04:18.05 | mheath | elg, I was under the impression that even in the days of famous classical composers, most of their works were commissioned by royalty |
| 04:18.12 | mheath | Who in turn controlled the preformance of said works? |
| 04:18.19 | elg | uh, the royalty |
| 04:18.37 | elg | the artists wrote music for money. service industry |
| 04:18.44 | RyanE | commissioned, but anyone could play that. As a matter of fact, Mozart was quite famous for playing other composers' works, by hearing them once. |
| 04:18.56 | RyanE | he could in essence 'use his replicator' on their performance. |
| 04:19.16 | RyanE | but then he also innovated, based on previous composers and styles |
| 04:19.27 | RyanE | if he did that today, he'd probably be sued. |
| 04:19.29 | mheath | RyanE, Composers can do that now. Its called a cover :) |
| 04:19.48 | elg | do you really think in your drm world that covers would still be allowed? |
| 04:19.49 | RyanE | yes, but they must pay a royalty. |
| 04:20.36 | elg | do you think the record companies would stop at keeping the status quo if they had the power to increase royalties 100 fold or restrict performance altogether? |
| 04:20.54 | RyanE | and thanks, mheath, for kicking off the 'great #utah DRM debate' (July '07 edition). I have copyrighted the #utah DRM debates, so you owe me $100. |
| 04:21.43 | mheath | RyanE, Bring me to court. Somehow I don't think that the US government defines private conversations as a form of art |
| 04:22.08 | elg | why not? we put more thought into it than most professional performing musicians? |
| 04:22.12 | RyanE | no, this is a public performance, and the *same* things are hashed over and over. |
| 04:22.20 | RyanE | anyone can 'tune in'. |
| 04:22.47 | RyanE | if you think this is private, you are sadly mistaken. It's not only a public performance, its a 'recorded public performance', thanks to ibot. |
| 04:22.56 | mheath | elg, Why won't companies "increase royalties 100 fold or restrict performance altogether"? |
| 04:23.02 | mheath | BEcause we're not talking about changing law |
| 04:23.11 | mheath | They already have their rights established in law |
| 04:23.23 | elg | what does law have to do with it? |
| 04:23.26 | mheath | We're talking about technology that allows inforcement of said laws and rights |
| 04:23.41 | elg | poppycock |
| 04:23.57 | RyanE | no, we're talking about technology that enforces much more than said laws. Fair Use pretty much goes out the window. |
| 04:24.40 | elg | what if there was a technology that would instantly fine or jail every driver who broke the speed limit |
| 04:25.06 | JoshH | someday there will be |
| 04:25.09 | elg | or prevent guns from firing unless being used in a war recognized by the government? |
| 04:25.22 | elg | where does your right to bear arms go then? due process? |
| 04:25.22 | RyanE | yeah, like the red light photo cop... |
| 04:25.25 | JoshH | some rental companies are already detecting speeding and charging extra |
| 04:26.13 | elg | will someone PLEASE tell me why "art" has some glorified position where freedom is unimportant |
| 04:26.30 | mheath | (Right to Bear Arms is a modern misinterpretation of a clause designed to protect the rights of an obsolete concept of a local militia, but I digress) |
| 04:26.34 | elg | I'd sure like to know. If I can figure out how to apply it to civil liberties I could become a dictator. |
| 04:26.49 | mheath | elg, Where do you draw the line, though? |
| 04:27.03 | elg | mheath: you think it's obsolete now, because you're living in a cozy country with a mostly-functioning government |
| 04:27.12 | mheath | Arguing against any form of DRM is aruging that musicians have no right tno make money off of recordings. |
| 04:27.21 | elg | what happens when the government goes haywire and all of a sudden local militia isn't so obsolete? |
| 04:27.22 | mheath | Do you feel they only have the right to make money off of live preformances? |
| 04:27.28 | elg | mheath: that's an utter lie |
| 04:27.34 | elg | you've drunk the kool-aid |
| 04:27.42 | elg | dude, I AM a musician |
| 04:27.43 | JoshH | no, it's arguing that they don't have the right to prevent you from doing what you want with their music after you buy it |
| 04:27.49 | mheath | With no DRM and the legal right to copy music anywhere and let anyone play it, theres 0 incentive for anyone to ever buy the recordings |
| 04:28.00 | JoshH | people who can't understand this distinction shouldn't be arguing about it at all |
| 04:28.03 | mheath | One person buys it, and it can spread to the whole world easily with modern technology like bittorrent |
| 04:28.11 | nick125 | I support artists having a right to make money off their recordings. I don't support people telling me that I can't use the music I've purchased on the devices I want. |
| 04:28.21 | JoshH | mheath: that's not right, but that's not all DRM is meant to stop either |
| 04:28.39 | elg | mheath: why should musicians have residual income "by right"? what makes them so special? |
| 04:28.47 | mheath | nick125: Which is why I said I support _open_ formats that have DRM, to allow compatability |
| 04:28.51 | elg | I don't get residual income for every hamburger I flip at mcdonalds |
| 04:28.57 | elg | I have to go back and keep flipping |
| 04:29.27 | Tene | mheath: I definitely have incentive to support musicians, even though I can obtain their music for free. |
| 04:29.29 | JoshH | mheath: you can't have DRM that stops people from sharing files without the same DRM infringing on other freedoms |
| 04:29.40 | Tene | Many humans have incentives beyond greed for money. |
| 04:29.53 | JoshH | and those freedoms are more important than the artist's right to make sure you don't share their files |
| 04:31.27 | JoshH | if being able to copy some music to any and all devices i may own means that it's possible for me to share those files with the world if i were so inclined, so be it |
| 04:31.30 | mheath | I support DRM in a decent format that doesn't infringe on your _rights_. Beyond that, I feel its needed. |
| 04:31.33 | JoshH | punish those who share, not customers |
| 04:31.52 | mheath | DRM should allow you to do whatever you want with the contents of the new CD you bought, but still leave incentive for your friends to go and buy their own copy of the CD |
| 04:32.05 | JoshH | well DRM as we know it doesn't do that |
| 04:32.12 | mheath | JoshH, OK? |
| 04:32.13 | Tene | This whole DRM thing has done a lot to convince people that if they *can* get it for free, they *should* |
| 04:32.22 | elg | DRM is unpatriotic |
| 04:32.24 | mheath | Please show me where I said "I love DRM just as it is, I don't think it needs any changes, and I love it" |
| 04:32.48 | mheath | I said I support the basic concept of it, and would support open DRM-supporting formats. |
| 04:32.49 | JoshH | DRM exists so that corporations can guarantee that they will get paid as many times as possible for selling you the same thing |
| 04:33.25 | mheath | So? What's wrong with that? |
| 04:33.28 | Tene | mheath: describe a DRM system that doesn't infringe on those rights. |
| 04:33.56 | JoshH | it's wrong to have to buy the same thing over and over to use it on different devices or at different locations |
| 04:33.56 | elg | mheath: you obviously don't have to make your own way yet |
| 04:34.12 | JoshH | consumers have rights too |
| 04:34.33 | mheath | elg, I've been officially and legally not a dependent of my dad or anyone since I was 17, thanks. |
| 04:34.54 | mheath | And haven't received any money or support from anyone that I didn't earn myself since then, either. |
| 04:34.59 | JoshH | if i buy a book, and i want a copy for home and work, why shouldn't i be able to make myself a copy? same thing with music or movies or games |
| 04:35.03 | elg | you're quite welcome. I could care less what you are officially |
| 04:35.18 | elg | how much is your rent? |
| 04:35.21 | elg | groceries? |
| 04:36.06 | mheath | elg, I pay $300/month for rent, and my groceries are kinda hard to add up, as I by what I need on a day by day basis, usually.. |
| 04:37.09 | elg | and you feed how many mouths? health insurance? car insurance? utilities? |
| 04:37.31 | mheath | Don't pay health insurance ATM, because I'm still fully insured via Tricare until December. |
| 04:37.35 | mheath | Pay my own car insurance |
| 04:37.53 | mheath | Utiilities are included in rent, except for cable, for which I contribute $30 /month. |
| 04:38.25 | JoshH | mheath: is your concern over filesharing the main/only reason you support DRM on content that you pay for? |
| 04:38.54 | mheath | JoshH, Yes, because I believe thats the only thing DRM should be preventing. |
| 04:39.14 | mheath | I believe you have a right to things you purchased for your own use, however you want. |
| 04:39.24 | elg | and you're ok if the cable company (or your parents/landlords) says you have to pay that $30 plus $3 for every half hour, and $0.50 for every commercial you skip, and a $10 premium if you decide to watch during prime time? |
| 04:39.47 | JoshH | i think a technological solution that allows for all fair use rights but prevents filesharing would be something other than DRM, unless by DRM you mean something radically different than what it is today |
| 04:40.01 | RyanE | and how does DRM keep me from sharing with someone else, yet allow me to copy to my own devices? The current answer is, I can only copy it to X devices, and if the company providing the DRM goes out of business, you're screwed. |
| 04:40.29 | mheath | RyanE, I don't know. Thats an answer we'll have to come up with. |
| 04:40.31 | RyanE | how about when MP3 goes out of style? Can I convert my music to OGG7? I don't have permission to? Dang, I guess I'll just buy it again. |
| 04:40.36 | mheath | I never said that I was happy with any existing DRM formats |
| 04:41.10 | JoshH | you can never have the freedoms of fair use and also make it impossible to share files, at least not by any method i can think of right now |
| 04:41.18 | RyanE | I think the problem isn't that a good DRM doesn't exist... The problem is that it CAN'T exist. At some point, it HAS to infringe on my usage, because I could always copy it to all MY devices, then give one of MY devices away. |
| 04:41.33 | JoshH | the solution for that is to punish pirates |
| 04:41.45 | RyanE | so what it does now is just annoy people who would otherwise obey the law. |
| 04:42.00 | RyanE | and people who want to copy just find an un-drm'ed copy, and copy away. |
| 04:42.05 | nick125 | Pirates have broken DRM, and they will continue to do so. |
| 04:42.16 | mheath | I never said anything about supporting particular DRM methods. I've only said I conceptually support the idea of DRM, and an artists rights to protect their own rights (though they a responsibility to not infringe on yours, either) |
| 04:42.18 | RyanE | non-pirates have also broken DRM. |
| 04:42.35 | RyanE | and will continue to do so. :) |
| 04:42.36 | nick125 | All DRM does is make it harder for legit uses. |
| 04:42.54 | *** mode/#utah [-o Jayce^] by ChanServ |
| 04:42.54 | *** mode/#utah [+oo Zelut Tene] by ChanServ |
| 04:43.17 | JoshH | the concept of supporting a method to prevent the widespread ripping off of artists is not at all related to modern DRM |
| 04:43.42 | JoshH | modern DRM only infringes on fair use |
| 04:43.59 | mheath | JoshH, Those are implemenations, not concept |
| 04:44.14 | mheath | You could jusy as easily say "Operating Systems suck" |
| 04:44.46 | JoshH | you're thinking of something other than "DRM", really |
| 04:44.46 | mheath | Because the majority of operating systems are Windows, and Window does suck :P |
| 04:44.46 | JoshH | but i do see where you're coming from |
| 04:46.05 | RyanE | mheath: implementations are concepts that have been coded. There is no magical 'conceptual fair use DRM', they by definition are flawed, because their goal is to restrict fair use. |
| 04:46.36 | mheath | I was always under impression that their _goal_ was to restrict _illegal_ use |
| 04:46.37 | Supaplex | greed |
| 04:46.56 | elg | mheath: then you drank the kool-aid |
| 04:47.01 | RyanE | no, their goal is to restrict use, under the guise that they want to restrict illegal use. |
| 04:47.11 | JoshH | like i said, the goal of modern DRM implementations is to pad corporate pockets at the expense of your fair use rights |
| 04:47.12 | nick125 | mheath: Their goal is to make you pay 50 times for what you should get for free with fair use. |
| 04:47.23 | elg | that's what they _say_ they are doing, because that's the PC way to say "we're after your money any way we can talk you out of it" |
| 04:47.28 | JoshH | no company that sells DRM cares about an artist's rights |
| 04:48.01 | mheath | Perhaps Copy Protection is a more descriptive term for what I'm refering to |
| 04:48.09 | JoshH | but copying is fine |
| 04:48.13 | JoshH | for personal use |
| 04:48.21 | JoshH | sharing is what you are against |
| 04:48.29 | mheath | JoshH, "Copy protection, also known as copy prevention or copy restriction, is a system for preventing the unauthorized reproduction of copyrighted media like movies, video games and music" |
| 04:48.40 | mheath | Copying things for your own use would be authorized |
| 04:48.45 | RyanE | the problem is the 'unauthorized' part. |
| 04:48.46 | JoshH | well, it's usually not |
| 04:48.51 | mheath | Whereas copying for others "IE, filesharing" would be unauthroized |
| 04:49.04 | JoshH | copying and sharing are entirely separate actions |
| 04:49.07 | Tene | mheath: you said "illegal", not "unauthorized" |
| 04:49.07 | elg | anybody remember Copy II/PC |
| 04:49.10 | RyanE | and just how does a piece of software know when something is 'authorized' vs. 'unauthorized'... Can you say... Turing Test? |
| 04:49.30 | elg | RyanE: even average humans wouldn't be qualified to make that distinction |
| 04:49.33 | JoshH | and honestly, sharing is also fine, to an extent |
| 04:49.35 | Tene | Who gives the authorization? The US Government? The RIAA? |
| 04:49.42 | RyanE | true and true, elg and JoshH. |
| 04:49.50 | JoshH | most people don't have any qualms about sending a friend some sample mp3s to check out a new artist |
| 04:49.52 | mheath | RyanE, I dunno. Thats something that hasn'tbeen solved, yet. |
| 04:49.54 | RyanE | the artist who signed away all their rights and their soul? |
| 04:49.56 | elg | and even the qualified (judges, lawyers would have a good guess) are a social necessity and not infallible |
| 04:49.59 | RyanE | mheath: and can't be solved. |
| 04:50.04 | JoshH | maybe not a whole discography |
| 04:50.38 | RyanE | man, it's been a while since I participated in a 'trash on mheath' session. Feels good to be back. :) |
| 04:50.49 | mheath | RyanE, Your right. Things can't be solved.. Just like these 1.44MB disks are all the storage we'll ever need, 56K internet is the coolest thing in the world, and everything thats ever been invented has alread been invented. |
| 04:51.00 | JoshH | i feel that artists will just have to accept the fact that some people will pirate their works and deal with it, they shouldn't be able to infringe on consumer rights in a vain attempt to stop it |
| 04:51.00 | elg | now you're just trolling |
| 04:51.20 | mheath | elg, No, I'm not. Its rediculous that concepts get shot down because your sure they'll never get implemented. |
| 04:51.21 | RyanE | mheath: I didn't say that technology won't improve, but that I think that DRM won't pass a Turing Test anytime in the next century. |
| 04:51.25 | mheath | Lots of good ideas have died that way |
| 04:52.17 | RyanE | and just how does the software know whose ears it's playing into? You need a retina scan by your MP3 player before you use it? Ooops! I'm sitting next to you, and you scanned MY retinas! Thief!!!!! |
| 04:52.33 | elg | puhlease. show me anyone out there who knew their stuff and said that 56k was the limit of how fast we'd be able to go, or that 640KB could never conceiveably be filled |
| 04:52.41 | JoshH | mheath: the only way i can think of would be coming up with some great copy protection that allows a certain number of authorized copies to be made, or provides some method to authorize a new device or whatever, that also requires activation to make sharing more difficult, but we've seen stuff like that fail before |
| 04:52.48 | elg | mheath: NO good ideas have died that way |
| 04:52.50 | RyanE | I just think that it's a flawed concept, not just a flawed implementation. |
| 04:53.03 | elg | GOOD ideas survive in spite of the stupid humans that think them up |
| 04:53.24 | RyanE | JoshH: that concept works until the authorization authority goes out of business... then you're screwed again. |
| 04:53.28 | elg | copy protection didn't work even when there was no internet |
| 04:53.28 | mheath | JoshH, Itunes has done a decent job with a system like that. |
| 04:53.40 | elg | back when viruses spread floppy to floppy |
| 04:53.57 | JoshH | i don't know much about how itunes works actually |
| 04:53.57 | RyanE | that was because 1.44 floppies were the bomb, and would never be improved upon. |
| 04:54.08 | mheath | elg, See, back in my day, for copy protection, we used to flip the switch on the back of the floppy ;-) |
| 04:54.11 | elg | oh yeah, I forgot |
| 04:54.19 | JoshH | i've head you can burn the files to a cd and then rip that to get unencumbered files |
| 04:54.24 | JoshH | but that's about it |
| 04:54.37 | RyanE | JoshH: there's actually software that will do it, without the CD rip... |
| 04:54.56 | mheath | JoshH, But it makes things more difficult and troublesome. And I'm not against that. |
| 04:54.57 | RyanE | it plays it to the soundcard, captures the soundcard buffers, and drops a .WAV file that you can then convert to MP3. |
| 04:55.02 | herlo | RyanE: w00t!! |
| 04:55.05 | RyanE | and it's not difficult or troublesome at all. |
| 04:56.27 | elg | RyanE: you don't have to do that actually, you can just get itunes to burn to a disk image and then rip the disk image |
| 04:56.34 | JoshH | i think making things more difficult and troublesome only encourages piracy |
| 04:56.38 | elg | but if your files were lossless, you lose a little bit more |
| 04:56.53 | elg | sorry, if they were lossy |
| 04:57.00 | JoshH | like no-cd cracks for games, that actually make pirating the game possible/easier |
| 04:57.01 | elg | if they were lossless, no big deal |
| 04:57.29 | mheath | Meh. |
| 04:57.52 | mheath | My arugment stemmed from all the anti-DRM comments I hear that seem like little more than a "I want to get free stuff without ever having to pay for it" argument |
| 04:57.52 | JoshH | also, people who could easily afford to buy xp, but pirated instead, just because they don't want to have to bother activing again for new motherboards and such |
| 04:58.05 | mheath | It's good to hear that all of you are more level headed |
| 04:58.23 | mheath | and though you dislike bad, cumbersome technology that infringes on peoples rights... |
| 04:58.33 | RyanE | mheath: I'm against DRM, but I only have MP3's of stuff that I have purchased on CD or obtained through other legal means. |
| 04:58.39 | JoshH | i am morally opposed to piracy, but i also think teh copyright system needs a lot of work, and i'm staunchly for fair use rights |
| 04:58.44 | mheath | It seems like most of you do feel that illegal file sharing is bad, even if there isn't a good solution to get rid of it |
| 04:59.17 | JoshH | and if it comes down to losing fair use in an attempt to stop sharing, or allowing fair use and accepting the fact that there will always be pirates, i'll go with the latter |
| 04:59.18 | mheath | Oh, I was going to ask...did anyone go to the SLLUG GPLv3 discussion? |
| 04:59.20 | mheath | I was curious how that went |
| 05:00.45 | JoshH | probably a bunch of nerds in a room listening to a speaker talking about a new license, some trying to stay awake, and others intently focused |
| 05:01.07 | JoshH | then clapping at the end, passing out the swag, and going home |
| 05:01.25 | mheath | Heh, thanks for the synposis |
| 05:01.32 | mheath | synopsis, too* |
| 05:02.05 | mheath | GPLv3 to me makes a good comparison with violation of fair use rights |
| 05:02.47 | mheath | I find it troubling that a license thats supposed to be truly free and open makes so many restrictions and limitations on usage. |
| 05:02.58 | JoshH | i honestly haven't been able to bring myself to read it, and i've mostly ignored the flamewars |
| 05:03.25 | mheath | I'm still curious about if it will be widly adopted or not |
| 05:03.33 | mheath | A lot of projects have been kind of boycotting it |
| 05:04.16 | JoshH | the projects that feel cheated by the likes of linksys, tivo, etc will likely adopt it, the rest may hold off |
| 05:04.43 | mheath | I thought linksys and tivo were in two different boats |
| 05:04.52 | JoshH | well i don't mean them specifically |
| 05:05.20 | mheath | Wasn't linksys accused of outright GPL violation, while TiVo is part of Stallmans anti-"Tivoization" crap for 'abuse' of the GPL's 'intent'? |
| 05:05.21 | JoshH | i'm too tired to think of good examples |
| 05:06.19 | mheath | Thats my problem.....You're free to believe whatever you want to believe, but don't tell me your license is free and then force your _ideals_ on the people who use it. |
| 05:06.55 | JoshH | well, it's free according to their definition of free |
| 05:06.57 | mheath | Yeah, it's getting late. I'm heading to bed...Have a good night, JoshH, RyanE, elg... |
| 05:07.01 | RyanE | a license is *still* a license... I think a license without ideals is no longer a license. |
| 05:07.17 | RyanE | it's just what set of ideals should be in it or not... |
| 05:07.17 | mheath | JoshH, not even free according to their definition |
| 05:07.51 | mheath | Their pages on explanation of free software specifically say freedom to do do whatever you want with it |
| 05:07.57 | RyanE | you mean, your interpretation of their definition? |
| 05:08.19 | JoshH | whatever you want, as long as you keep it free |
| 05:08.25 | JoshH | it's not a bsd license |
| 05:08.26 | mheath | And I'd say that saying I can't run it on a Tivo, or other hardware platform, infringes on my doing 'whatever I want" with it |
| 05:08.41 | RyanE | no, it's saying Tivo can't take it and close it from me. |
| 05:08.59 | RyanE | actually, it totally depends on the license. If it is an issue for you, don't license it with those ideals. |
| 05:09.07 | JoshH | tivo should provide the source, let you customize it, or foad, as far as i'm concerned |
| 05:09.22 | JoshH | i don't have sympathy for companies that take without giving back |
| 05:09.23 | RyanE | foad? |
| 05:09.34 | JoshH | "f off and die" |
| 05:09.37 | RyanE | heh. |
| 05:09.56 | mheath | RyanE, This is what troubles me! On one side, you're aruging (in the DRM issue) that data is like a book, you should be able to do whatever you want with it in that regard....but this is just another kind of restriction |
| 05:10.00 | JoshH | they can always make a bsd based tivo, if they absolutely have to keep it closed |
| 05:10.06 | herlo | RyanE: don't encourage mheath |
| 05:10.25 | RyanE | herlo: I can't help but feed the troll. He looks so hungry. |
| 05:10.42 | mheath | herlo, Is it bad that we're having a friendly, open discussion about DRM, open source, and individual rights? |
| 05:10.50 | mheath | Is that offtopic? I don't see how thats trolling. |
| 05:11.05 | RyanE | mheath: I called you a troll, not herlo. |
| 05:11.05 | mheath | I promised to stay on topic and avoid conflicts, but I didn't feel a discussion like this fell under those categories |
| 05:11.10 | mheath | If you feel it does, I'll shut up and stop now. |
| 05:11.25 | herlo | RyanE: haha |
| 05:11.37 | Zelut | a bit confusing though :) |
| 05:12.46 | mheath | OK, I won't bring up DRM or GPLv3 or anything like that if those are offtopic. Sorry. |
| 05:13.23 | mheath | Goodnight, I'm heading to sleep. |
| 05:13.55 | RyanE | 'night. |
| 05:14.24 | herlo | RyanE: gnite |
| 05:15.24 | chadbryant | Shashdot is getting lazy |
| 05:15.29 | chadbryant | er, Slashdot |
| 05:15.59 | chadbryant | that "$150 laptop" was so obvious a scam that a 3rd grader could have picked up on it |
| 05:17.42 | *** mode/#utah [+b *!*@c-76-23-0-191.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] by Zelut |
| 05:18.13 | *** kick/#utah [mheath!n=christer@ubuntu/member/zelut] by Zelut (Zelut) |
| 05:19.17 | *** mode/#utah [+b *!mheath@*] by Zelut |
| 05:20.52 | *** mode/#utah [+b mheath!*@*] by Zelut |
| 05:45.47 | *** join/#utah fozzmoo (n=fozz@166-70-238-250.ip.xmission.com) |
| 05:49.45 | findlay | aimless impatience |
| 05:50.05 | tensai | ~lart findlay |
| 05:50.05 | ibot | puts findlay into a headlock and administers a mighty noogie, rubbing half of findlay's hair of |
| 05:50.18 | nick125 | ~lart ctypes |
| 05:50.18 | ibot | beats ctypes severely about the head and shoulders with a rubber chicken |
| 05:50.32 | findlay | surely no alacrity in my attentiveness nor dependence will yield any positive result |
| 05:50.58 | fozzmoo | findlay: You ranting on females again? |
| 05:51.08 | findlay | fozzmoo: how did you know? |
| 05:51.16 | Tene | findlay: 'cos that's all you do. |
| 05:51.18 | Tene | Ever. |
| 05:51.23 | fozzmoo | :) |
| 05:51.27 | findlay | yeah, I hate girls |
| 05:51.39 | Zelut | understandable |
| 05:51.40 | Tene | findlay:girls::mheath:military service |
| 05:51.43 | Tene | ;) |
| 05:51.45 | chadbryant | lol |
| 05:52.13 | bonez39 | findlay: I only hate girls when they are bitchy.....otherwise, they are wonderful.....! |
| 05:52.35 | findlay | well, I am speechless |
| 05:52.39 | Tene | So, Zelut, what's with this banning mheath stuff? Nobody seems to have heard anything about it, last I heard. |
| 05:53.13 | fozzmoo | mheath's been banned... again? |
| 05:53.25 | Zelut | fozzmoo: should be more permanent this time |
| 05:53.30 | Tene | Yeah, at 23:17 and friends |
| 05:53.42 | Zelut | ...but I'll chat about it tomorrow. OSCON has exhausted me today. |
| 05:53.42 | fozzmoo | I barely missed the show. |
| 05:54.24 | findlay | hopefully people (girls especially) are more calm and sane in SLC than Provo |
| 05:54.40 | fozzmoo | findlay: Isn't everyone? |
| 05:54.43 | findlay | so I won't get as excitable and irritated |
| 05:54.46 | bonez39 | findlay: are they insane and agitated in Happy Valley? |
| 05:54.58 | Tene | Zelut: perhaps you could explain the reason for the ban? It's traditional to leave at least some idea in the kick message. |
| 05:55.53 | findlay | bonez39: something about girls consistently advertize themselves has really gotten to wear on me |
| 05:55.55 | Zelut | Tene: if you really want to explain it to him you can remind him he's an irc troll, but I have all intentions of simply dropping the whole topic. |
| 05:56.37 | bonez39 | advertize themselves? boobs on a shelf shirt sort of advertizing? or just obnoxious and painfully obvious...screaming acting silly sort of advertizing? |
| 05:57.04 | findlay | "hi, I'm a girl, here's my qualifications. Ask me out" |
| 05:57.07 | chadbryant | who said boobs? |
| 05:57.09 | fozzmoo | findlay: Sexually frustrated much? |
| 05:57.17 | chadbryant | j/k |
| 05:57.28 | findlay | fozzmoo: I'm not quite sure what you mean by that |
| 05:57.53 | Tene | fozzmoo: of course not. didn't you know? humans are asexual until they're married. |
| 05:58.03 | fozzmoo | findlay: Funny thing is... I'm not sure what I meant myself. |
| 05:58.13 | fozzmoo | Tene: Really?! |
| 05:58.22 | findlay | Tene: really? |
| 05:58.39 | chadbryant | I'm going to go out on a limb here... |
| 05:58.42 | Tene | I apologize. |
| 05:58.58 | fozzmoo | Tene: I had no idea you had become an authority on the subject. :) |
| 05:59.01 | chadbryant | ...and speculate that this channel does not get much visitation from the fairer sex. |
| 05:59.26 | fozzmoo | chadbryant: It gets its share. |
| 05:59.28 | findlay | Tene is nothing but authority |
| 05:59.44 | Tene | chadbryant: they don't tend to advertize their gender. |
| 05:59.45 | nick125 | If anyone here knows ctypes and knows the ctypes magic to write a ctypes type declaration for this C code, I'll give you a cookie: uint32_t *tracks |
| 06:00.07 | chadbryant | Yeah, I can imagine that advertising their status as females would have some disadvantages. |
| 06:00.15 | bonez39 | Maquis is here a fair amount of the time |
| 06:00.21 | fozzmoo | findlay: So, let's back up... |
| 06:00.51 | fozzmoo | You're frustrated because girls are all... shopping for a man? |
| 06:00.54 | findlay | nick125: I'm not quite sure what you're asking, but I don't know anything about ctypes though |
| 06:01.24 | fozzmoo | s/man/husband/ |
| 06:01.30 | findlay | fozzmoo: that's the particular tack I have chosen for venting my frustrations from out of my list of greviances |
| 06:01.42 | findlay | tonight |
| 06:01.50 | findlay | this morning |
| 06:02.06 | Tene | How does that injure or harm you? |
| 06:02.12 | fozzmoo | I guess it depends on where you socialize, but yeah. SLC shouldfarebetter than Provo. :) |
| 06:02.37 | fozzmoo | I remember attending a singles ward meeting or two when I was single... |
| 06:02.57 | findlay | Tene: (should I be ashamed to admit it) I submit respectfully that I am sensible? |
| 06:02.59 | Supaplex | to what end? |
| 06:03.03 | chadbryant | shopping for a lifemate in Provo is like shopping for a computer at Totally Awesome |
| 06:03.13 | findlay | haha |
| 06:03.20 | Tene | ~chadbryant++ |
| 06:03.21 | fozzmoo | Aside from being noticeably quieter than family-attended services, it seemed like nobody was really... paying attention? |
| 06:04.13 | findlay | and the promiscuity grates on me |
| 06:04.33 | fozzmoo | yours or theirs? |
| 06:05.10 | Tene | fozzmoo: you also want to get his definition of promiscuity. |
| 06:05.21 | findlay | I take comfort in the hope that a saner society exists in my age group elsewhere |
| 06:05.25 | fozzmoo | Tene: I was wondering about that. |
| 06:05.36 | fozzmoo | findlay: What age group are we talking about? |
| 06:05.46 | findlay | 21-30 |
| 06:05.58 | fozzmoo | Ahh. The "Promiscuous Years" :) |
| 06:06.02 | Tene | findlay was slowly born over the course of ten years. |
| 06:06.30 | Supaplex | hah |
| 06:06.35 | findlay | Tene enjoys taunting me because of my reserved nature |
| 06:06.50 | Tene | findlay: not as much as you might think. |
| 06:06.59 | fozzmoo | I was gonna say! |
| 06:08.05 | findlay | Tene: don't you desire even now to elicit one of my ridiculously conservative truisms? :-) |
| 06:08.06 | Tene | findlay: I enjoy taunting you because of your entertaining, playful nature. |
| 06:08.25 | findlay | the point is conceded tacitly :) |
| 06:09.32 | Tene | Also, I find that you generally have something interesting to say on many subjects, and that most of the opinions I've seen you express have been well-thought-out and well-supported. |
| 06:09.51 | fozzmoo | Wow. The flattery. |
| 06:10.15 | fozzmoo | If only Tene would say such things about me. |
| 06:10.19 | findlay | fozzmoo: raw physical promiscuity is easy to identify and avoid. There are far subtler just as disgusting verbal and attitudinal forms |
| 06:10.23 | Tene | fozzmoo: I have. |
| 06:10.46 | Tene | findlay: example? |
| 06:10.53 | findlay | fozzmoo: I guess Tene wants something from me :) |
| 06:10.54 | fozzmoo | findlay: Good point, but in today's society it's rarely labeled as such. |
| 06:12.50 | fozzmoo | Oh wait. Tene's a fully contributing member of society now. |
| 06:13.08 | fozzmoo | Go to sleep, man. |
| 06:13.13 | findlay | Tene: mainly flirtatious behavior seems to have no threshold of discretion in this town |
| 06:14.14 | *** part/#utah bonez39 (n=scott@c-71-195-243-49.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 06:14.19 | findlay | and conversation that ought to be accounted wholesale silliness is passed off as the staple |
| 06:14.37 | fozzmoo | findlay: You're driving them all away! |
| 06:14.45 | fozzmoo | But I hear ya. |
| 06:14.46 | findlay | aw |
| 06:15.17 | fozzmoo | What exactly bothers you about the flirting? |
| 06:15.32 | findlay | I don't want to be flirted at at all times |
| 06:15.32 | fozzmoo | that's they're doing it openly and indiscriminately? |
| 06:15.54 | findlay | I've just had more than enough of it that I can tolerate |
| 06:16.17 | findlay | it bothers me that intimacy is thrown about with no thought |
| 06:16.47 | findlay | "everybody's righteous, so why should it matter?" |
| 06:16.53 | fozzmoo | Maybe it's time you just faced it, findlay: you're cute... and hot... and undeniably attractive to the chicks? |
| 06:17.03 | findlay | sure |
| 06:17.05 | findlay | ;) |
| 06:22.50 | levi_home | Darn, I missed all the fun while shopping for an antenna. |
| 06:23.06 | fozzmoo | What kind of antenna? |
| 06:23.12 | findlay | is that what you shop for when you've already got a wife? |
| 06:23.21 | fozzmoo | heh. |
| 06:23.30 | levi_home | findlay: A wife who wants some TV, yeah. |
| 06:23.38 | fozzmoo | HD antenna? |
| 06:24.04 | Supaplex | wife is part of non-free. is that why apt-get won't install it? ;) |
| 06:24.05 | levi_home | Yeah, though I'd like some VHF channels too for non-HD sets. |
| 06:24.21 | Supaplex | my bad. too much </geek> in me. |
| 06:24.42 | nick125 | This sucks. The API for accessing the track list SUCK, and, there's no way around it unless I grab the information from the object provided by libmtp and make a new dictionary. |
| 06:25.01 | levi_home | It'd be easy if I just wanted a UHF antenna. The Channel Master 4220 looks like a winner. |
| 06:25.51 | findlay | # emerge wife |
| 06:26.00 | findlay | Calculating dependencies | |
| 06:26.00 | findlay | emerge: there are no ebuilds to satisfy "wife". |
| 06:26.09 | findlay | aw, gentoo has failed me |
| 06:26.14 | levi_home | I don't actually have any ATSC receivers yet. |
| 06:26.15 | Supaplex | haha |
| 06:26.17 | fozzmoo | % make love |
| 06:26.17 | fozzmoo | make: *** No rule to make target `love'. Stop. |
| 06:26.26 | Supaplex | soooo there's no rules? |
| 06:26.26 | levi_home | Though I will be building a dvr soon. |
| 06:26.43 | fozzmoo | % man love |
| 06:26.44 | fozzmoo | No manual entry for love |
| 06:27.05 | Supaplex | unix is broken. |
| 06:27.24 | fozzmoo | Could be user error(s). |
| 06:27.24 | levi_home | fozzmoo: You have any recommendations? |
| 06:27.38 | fozzmoo | levi_home: I'm afraid I don't really know much about it... yet. |
| 06:28.08 | fozzmoo | I've been a Dish Network patron for about 9 years now... |
| 06:28.19 | fozzmoo | and I don't have any HD-capable hardware... yet. |
| 06:28.25 | Supaplex | dvr? they've got linux for that. |
| 06:28.32 | findlay | all I know about antennas is I've heard their design is something of a magic |
| 06:29.40 | levi_home | I've got a HD-capable TV, but no digital tuner. |
| 06:32.36 | levi_home | All the local channels worth watching have digital signals, though. |
| 06:33.12 | fozzmoo | How much are digital tuners? |
| 06:36.05 | findlay | fozzmoo: I've probably been a little too critical in my judgement of girls here by extrapolating the more extreme behavior of the younger ones to the (typically) more mature older ones, but a renewed infusion of a full freshmen class of coeds every year does have it's effect on life in general, especially since there seems to be no real check by the prevailing attitude which in this case is a gun-ho get-married paradigm |
| 06:36.59 | fozzmoo | I've always been amazed by how sexy female BYU students can make themselves when they're not really allowed to show much skin. |
| 06:37.32 | findlay | I've never found raw skin very appealing |
| 06:38.11 | findlay | well, bed time for findlay |
| 06:38.13 | fozzmoo | Well, a square inch of derma-matter isn't that appealing, no... |
| 06:38.30 | fozzmoo | But cleavage usually has universal appeal among hetrosexual males. |
| 06:38.40 | findlay | indeed |
| 06:38.57 | chadbryant | a little cleavage goes a long way |
| 06:39.04 | findlay | heh, truly |
| 06:39.16 | fozzmoo | But, yeah. |
| 06:39.24 | fozzmoo | Go to bed, Mr. findlay. |
| 06:39.37 | fozzmoo | Maybe the girls won't tease you so much tomorrow. |
| 06:39.53 | Lakshmi___ | fozzmoo!!1 |
| 06:40.05 | fozzmoo | Maybe you'll find some intellectually stimulating angel tomorrow. |
| 06:40.06 | findlay | Lakshmi___: !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111elevenoneone |
| 06:40.30 | fozzmoo | Lakshmi___: Your ___ is... oh, never mind. |
| 06:40.43 | RyanE | I didn't know they could shed their tail like that. |
| 06:40.53 | fozzmoo | I thought it was a "fill in the blank" challenge. |
| 06:42.04 | chadbryant | why do music files obviously taken from phonograph records sound better than more recent releases? |
| 06:42.15 | chadbryant | has the "loudness war" gotten that out of control? |
| 06:42.39 | fozzmoo | chadbryant: Dynamic range |
| 06:42.48 | fozzmoo | Yeah. loudness war it is. |
| 06:44.07 | chadbryant | I found a copy of the "Death Wish II" soundtrack (never released on CD in the US, only available in that format from an expensive single pressing in Japan) in 320k mp3 - converted it to AAC, loaded it to my iPod, and it's one of the best-sounding albums I have |
| 06:46.01 | fozzmoo | Eww. An iPod, eh? |
| 06:46.16 | fozzmoo | ;-) |
| 06:46.20 | chadbryant | I like it |
| 06:46.21 | chadbryant | it works |
| 06:46.24 | RyanE | "well, *there's* your problem... " |
| 06:46.33 | fozzmoo | I think I might like it if I had one running rockbox. |
| 06:46.42 | chadbryant | I looked into Rockbox |
| 06:46.50 | chadbryant | that's a no-go on mine |
| 06:46.53 | fozzmoo | I like my iAudio/Cowon products. |
| 06:47.36 | fozzmoo | But, yeah... loudness. bad. |
| 06:47.55 | fozzmoo | I'm not as aware of it as most people... |
| 06:48.17 | fozzmoo | I've got severe hearing loss in both ears... my hearing aids already compress everything up. |
| 06:48.18 | Supaplex | what are some ways to un dain brammage a wav file? file(1) only says it's data, and nothing I have will play it. |
| 06:48.37 | chadbryant | I learned to operate a phonograph before I entered Kindergarten - I've been surrounded by popular music since before I could walk |
| 06:49.09 | fozzmoo | Supaplex: Good question. |
| 06:49.23 | chadbryant | the tail end of the compact disc era has been horrible from an audiophile standpoint |
| 06:49.45 | fozzmoo | I like my MFSL CDs. |
| 06:49.53 | chadbryant | two amps, eight speakers |
| 06:49.54 | fozzmoo | They cared about what they released. |
| 06:50.15 | chadbryant | all properly arranged for maximum stereo effect |
| 06:50.29 | fozzmoo | sweet. I had a system like that in high school. |
| 06:50.40 | fozzmoo | Big Cerwin Vega woofers. |
| 06:50.41 | chadbryant | had a phonograph *and* an 8-track deck, along w/ the obligatory CD & cassette decks |
| 06:50.50 | fozzmoo | chadbryant: heh heh. Yeah. Me too. |
| 06:51.05 | chadbryant | I sound like an old man |
| 06:51.11 | chadbryant | I'm only 31 |
| 06:51.17 | nick125 | I think I locked up my Zen. Wow. |
| 06:51.29 | RyanE | nick125: I sure hope you're talking about a media player. |
| 06:51.34 | fozzmoo | hee hee. |
| 06:51.37 | nick125 | RyanE: Yeah :P |
| 06:51.52 | Supaplex | nick125: well quit running firefox on it ;) |
| 06:52.21 | Supaplex | *YAWN* |
| 06:52.26 | Supaplex | must be that time... |
| 06:52.32 | nick125 | Supaplex: No, I guess it's because it doesn't like having 200 MTP connections in a day. |
| 06:52.42 | Supaplex | hehehe |
| 06:53.02 | RyanE | nick125: 200 possibly slightly incorrect MTP connections? |
| 06:53.06 | Supaplex | mtp .oO( I'm tired now. quit talking to me... ) |
| 06:53.26 | nick125 | RyanE: Something them not ended correctly, etc. |
| 06:53.36 | Supaplex | nick125'd mtp exploit dejour |
| 06:54.05 | chadbryant | fozzmoo: ever play a record so loud it made itself skip? |
| 06:54.16 | fozzmoo | chadbryant: Yep. |
| 06:54.41 | chadbryant | that was the biggest challenge - finding how loud you could go and still have it play coherently |
| 06:54.46 | fozzmoo | chadbryant: I wired up a polarity switch on a turntable when I was high school so I could listen to the "backward messages" on my rock LPs. |
| 06:54.51 | chadbryant | haha |
| 06:54.59 | RyanE | fozzmoo: wow. |
| 06:55.02 | chadbryant | "Hear that?" |
| 06:55.11 | chadbryant | ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHKKKKKKKKKK |
| 06:55.17 | fozzmoo | It's SO much easier now. :) |
| 06:55.22 | chadbryant | "Satan is lord. Satan is lord!" |
| 06:55.27 | chadbryant | ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHKKKKKKKKKK |
| 06:55.52 | Supaplex | or as arrow/103.5 did, "Give us all your money! muhuahaha". I almost won that contest. :-x |
| 06:55.52 | fozzmoo | The funniest is on Styx- Kilroy Was Here |
| 06:55.58 | chadbryant | "It's right there! Can't you hear it?" |
| 06:56.14 | fozzmoo | There's obvious backward messages on that record. |
| 06:56.22 | chadbryant | Satan, destroyer of stereos! Ruiner of needles! |
| 06:56.25 | RyanE | I think it says "cheese in your pants"... |
| 06:56.37 | fozzmoo | I played them backwards and it sounded like complete gibberish... |
| 06:56.54 | chadbryant | The absolute best "backwards message" I ever heard claimed was in Queen's "Another One Bites The Dust". |
| 06:56.55 | fozzmoo | And then, after a few attempts to decipher it... I realized what it was! |
| 06:56.59 | Supaplex | you have to get the speed right to. I imagine they don't all match the same speed. |
| 06:57.09 | fozzmoo | They were reading the latin verbiage off a dollar bill! |
| 06:57.11 | chadbryant | Where, supposedly, the chorus played backwards sang "It's fun to smoke marijuana". |
| 06:57.37 | fozzmoo | heh. |
| 06:58.16 | chadbryant | Second place goes to AC/DC's "Love At First Feel", supposedly played backwards to reveal "We serve the devil, enjoy it sinners, we serve the devil, whip it good, we serve the devil". |
| 06:58.37 | RyanE | I wonder how many of those were deliberately back-masked vs. our incredibly complex neural network between the ears hearing something that's not there. |
| 06:58.39 | chadbryant | They had me convinced until "whip it good". |
| 06:59.34 | fozzmoo | RyanE: I think by the early to mid 80s, a lot of artists were deliberately adding backwards junk to their records just to fuel controversy and increase sales. |
| 07:00.08 | RyanE | personally, I have a hard enough time decyphering what the lyrics are in the forward-listening mode. Louie, Louie anyone? |
| 07:00.23 | chadbryant | Weird Al Yankovic added a backwards message to one of his songs. |
| 07:00.29 | chadbryant | "Satan eats Cheez Whiz." |
| 07:00.36 | RyanE | heh |
| 07:00.47 | levi_home | Well, I just ordered a UHF antenna and an HDHomeRun to build a DVR with. |
| 07:00.53 | fozzmoo | Yeah- I remember seeing a magazine at Harmons when I was 11 or so that had nothing but song lyrics in it. |
| 07:01.15 | fozzmoo | I remember it had Billy Idol's 'Eyes WIthout a Face' |
| 07:01.20 | levi_home | Time for me to sleep now. |
| 07:01.25 | fozzmoo | levi_home: congrats |
| 07:02.44 | Supaplex | sleep? what's that? |
| 07:02.53 | Supaplex | nope. no sleep. |
| 07:03.23 | RyanE | a few years ago there was a new radio station in Utah Valley, and when they started broadcasting, they played only covers of "Louie, Louie" for 3 days. I never heard the same one twice. I didn't know there were so many covers of that song, none of them having the same lyrics, I'm sure. |
| 07:04.25 | chadbryant | There are actual canonical lyrics to "Louie Louie" (no comma). |
| 07:04.50 | chadbryant | Richard Berry did an interview with Esquire in 1988 where he laid them out, and also confirmed that the title has no comma. |
| 07:26.30 | Supaplex | l8r ppl |
| 07:36.57 | *** join/#utah klys (n=admini@72.8.101.65) |
| 08:44.47 | *** part/#utah chadbryant (n=chadbrya@c-71-199-47-124.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 09:49.27 | *** join/#utah Lakshmi (n=chatzill@adsl-69-109-171-146.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 12:35.32 | *** join/#utah ^Migs^ (n=migs@205.122.50.69) |
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| 12:51.02 | redbeard2 | tensai: how dare you question my kagas! |
| 12:56.02 | ^Migs^ | http://www.wikihow.com/Use-a-Paper-Shredder-as-a-Pasta-Machine |
| 13:23.03 | *** join/#utah sinuhe (n=sinuhe@66.60.228.140) |
| 14:00.50 | *** join/#utah Shadowwire (n=shadowwi@mail.swplumb.com) |
| 14:01.12 | Shadowwire | Hey RyanE. |
| 14:05.33 | sinuhe | So I had a scary experience last night: I agreed with mheath. |
| 14:05.37 | sinuhe | I need healing. |
| 14:05.54 | Shadowwire | ouch |
| 14:06.20 | goozbach | I blame canada |
| 14:06.26 | Shadowwire | sinuhe: what did you agree with? |
| 14:06.31 | sinuhe | *Everyone* blames Canada. |
| 14:06.37 | sinuhe | Is mheath Canadian? |
| 14:07.11 | *** join/#utah jsmith (n=jsmith@adsl-074-228-192-104.sip.asm.bellsouth.net) |
| 14:07.17 | sinuhe | Shhadowwire: Appropriate use of MIME coupled with standard, specific to XML and RSS. |
| 14:07.55 | sinuhe | Shadowwire: He was ranting about how RSS is used as a blog, instead of a resource description. |
| 14:07.59 | Shadowwire | im in the wrong place. |
| 14:08.52 | sinuhe | Of course, we'd probably disagree with my choice of RDF/RSS1 and his of RSS 2, but that's a different topic. |
| 14:09.13 | Shadowwire | Of coarse. |
| 14:09.48 | Shadowwire | would you think me stupid, if I said I had no idia what you were talking about? |
| 14:11.28 | goozbach | no, I for one tuned out when someone mentioned XML |
| 14:11.32 | goozbach | :) |
| 14:11.35 | sinuhe | RSS is a syndication format originally made by Netscape. I believe Microsoft followed it up in IE4 with their bookmarking XML feature (I forget the name of it). RSS 2 extends the format, but breaks the RDF standard. |
| 14:11.58 | sinuhe | RDF is a XML description format from the W3. |
| 14:12.16 | sinuhe | You can see an example of mine at http://www.deevans.net/dee.rdf |
| 14:12.33 | sinuhe | Notice I'm also using the rss 1.0 namespace. |
| 14:13.06 | sinuhe | Also notice that my blog is a separate XHTML 1.0 (server negotiated as application/xhtml+xml--default--and text/html) |
| 14:13.10 | sinuhe | fie |
| 14:13.14 | sinuhe | s/fie/file/ |
| 14:13.35 | sinuhe | That is why it was scary. I'd already done what he was complaining others don't do. |
| 14:13.57 | sinuhe | Sorry goozbach, but I'm a XML fiend. |
| 14:14.01 | Shadowwire | It all makes sense now. |
| 14:14.14 | Shadowwire | ? |
| 14:14.23 | sinuhe | LOL |
| 14:14.30 | goozbach | I was being sarcastic |
| 14:14.32 | Shadowwire | Sorry im not a programer. |
| 14:14.59 | goozbach | so this SocialText thing is like um... maybe cool |
| 14:15.08 | sinuhe | Shadowwire: Be secure in understanding that I need healing for agreeing with mheath. :-) |
| 14:15.36 | Shadowwire | I did get that part. |
| 14:16.12 | Shadowwire | I do know hardware fairly well. |
| 14:17.02 | Shadowwire | anyone have advice on which linux version to try for the first time? |
| 14:17.37 | goozbach | Shadowwire: fedora |
| 14:17.43 | goozbach | or Ubuntu |
| 14:17.47 | RyanE | Hey. |
| 14:17.53 | sinuhe | www.gnu.org/links/links.html#FreeGNULinuxDistributions |
| 14:18.00 | Shadowwire | hey |
| 14:18.17 | sinuhe | BLAG is their Fedora version; gNewSense is their ubuntu. I would suggest either. I've liked both. |
| 14:18.28 | Shadowwire | we use a linux box running fedora for web serving |
| 14:18.30 | sinuhe | If you're into Gentoo, use UTUTO-e. |
| 14:18.48 | Shadowwire | however im not the guy who maintains it |
| 14:19.35 | sinuhe | Musix is great for musicians, based on Knoppix. |
| 14:19.54 | sinuhe | Haven't played much with the others. |
| 14:20.02 | goozbach | you could also try Mandriva |
| 14:21.09 | elg | Shadowwire: ubuntu |
| 14:21.47 | sinuhe | I'm taken with gNewSense and BLAG, personally. |
| 14:22.30 | sinuhe | The BLAG forums are also quite friendly to newbies. |
| 14:22.40 | Shadowwire | elg: why ubantu? |
| 14:22.56 | sinuhe | Because ubuntu is the Debian that should have been. :-) |
| 14:23.31 | Shadowwire | i see. |
| 14:24.15 | goozbach | Fedora, cause it's what's supporting the largest install base |
| 14:24.36 | goozbach | and if it's good enough for NASA, it's good enough for me |
| 14:24.45 | sinuhe | Both BLAG and gNewSense/ubuntu strive for a single CD solution for the Desktop. gNewSense has a LiveCD format, and BLAG has a server install option (plus it has the Fedora repositories, stripped of non-free stuff). |
| 14:28.13 | sinuhe | gNewSense also has a server install configuration, but no CD as of yet. |
| 14:32.15 | ^Migs^ | I never quite understood. What's the benefit to buying a secondary ISP service like XMission when you're already using Qwest DSL? |
| 14:32.36 | ^Migs^ | just that they give you email and maybe some webhosting? |
| 14:33.41 | elg | Shadowwire: because it's the best first distro |
| 14:33.58 | elg | i've never heard of these blag and gnewsense things, so I can't comment on them. |
| 14:34.07 | elg | redhat (and fedora) gives me hives |
| 14:34.22 | elg | ^Migs^: you have to pay for an isp one way or the other |
| 14:34.34 | elg | qwest's default is MSN |
| 14:34.49 | elg | they also have a more barebones isp of their own |
| 14:35.02 | elg | xmission is about the price of the latter (a few dollars more) and you get the best ISP evar |
| 14:35.07 | elg | i think it's a no brainer |
| 14:37.49 | ^Migs^ | but you basically pay double what you would have to otherwise |
| 14:38.12 | ^Migs^ | you can either pay for Qwest DSL (with the included ISP), or Qwest PLUS a whole other ISP |
| 14:38.31 | sinuhe | Xmission doesn't question my non-commercial hosting and supports my use of OpenBSD and GNU/Linux, gives me a subnet without hassle, and does a reverse lookup for my domains. |
| 14:39.06 | sinuhe | Their support also doesn't treat me like an idiot and isn't scared to find answers when they don't know. |
| 14:41.13 | maquis | s/yesterday/last night/ |
| 14:42.12 | pr0le | XMission is great for power users + general users, MSN works for general users |
| 14:42.54 | ^Migs^ | ok |
| 14:43.09 | ^Migs^ | that's basically what I figured. Just never sat down and thought about it much |
| 14:43.31 | sinuhe | I worked for MSN. I question that they actually work for general users. Being behind the scenes and having to coordinate the services with companies like Qwest made me realize how bad things are there. (The Microsoft infrastructure is actually quite good in Washington.) |
| 14:47.50 | ^Migs^ | hmmm |
| 14:48.09 | ^Migs^ | I just had to answer some questions from a friend of mine, and realized I couldn't go into depth about this issue |
| 14:48.32 | ^Migs^ | the small archaeology company he works for is using some lame ISP called Konnections |
| 14:48.45 | ^Migs^ | http://www.konnections.com/ |
| 14:49.43 | ^Migs^ | they have no control over their webhost, can't have dynamic content. And wtf is this "business dialup" for $30/mo nonsense? |
| 14:54.02 | redbeard2 | http://furious-george.net/ |
| 14:54.03 | brac | [Furious George and the Cross-Country Crime Spree] |
| 14:54.20 | Shadowwire | RyanE: how are you? |
| 15:03.17 | *** join/#utah wps (n=wps@64.0.193.149) |
| 15:06.49 | RyanE | Shadowwire: fine, thanks. |
| 15:07.03 | RyanE | Shadowwire: and how are you this morning? Much more chipper than yesterday? |
| 15:09.18 | Shadowwire | Indeed. |
| 15:09.32 | Shadowwire | are you who i think you are? |
| 15:09.41 | RyanE | glad to hear it. I think I'm who *I* think I am. |
| 15:09.55 | RyanE | probably can't get a more circular argument than that. |
| 15:10.09 | RyanE | so who do you think I am? |
| 15:10.18 | Shadowwire | DOJ? |
| 15:10.39 | RyanE | as in Department of Justice? Not me. |
| 15:11.25 | Shadowwire | yreffej O leinaD |
| 15:11.29 | Shadowwire | ? |
| 15:11.49 | sinuhe | Now that was an example of cryptography... |
| 15:12.06 | Shadowwire | you like? |
| 15:12.16 | sinuhe | I'm all impressed. |
| 15:12.16 | sinuhe | :-) |
| 15:12.21 | RyanE | Nope. Why would my nick be RyanE if my name was Dan? |
| 15:12.41 | Shadowwire | Answer me one question. |
| 15:12.42 | RyanE | I'm just not that clever... :) |
| 15:13.42 | Shadowwire | Hows Mom? |
| 15:13.43 | *** join/#utah fungus (n=olsonl@mailhub.sosstaffing.com) |
| 15:15.08 | Shadowwire | RyanE: rather, Hows your mom? |
| 15:15.23 | RyanE | Shadowwire: fine. |
| 15:17.42 | Shadowwire | anyone here ever hear of Amlid? |
| 15:19.41 | Shadowwire | Anyone? |
| 15:20.08 | elg | amlid? is that a prosthetic eyelid company? |
| 15:20.39 | RyanE | Google tells me it's the Anti-Money Laundering Info database or something along those lines. |
| 15:21.18 | Shadowwire | RyanE: I guess your not who I thought you were. |
| 15:21.42 | RyanE | s'pose not. |
| 15:22.00 | elg | *shudder* |
| 15:22.09 | elg | I just learned m4 shares my birthyear |
| 15:22.22 | Shadowwire | M4? |
| 15:22.51 | elg | the evil macro language responsible for the loss of sanity of many a sendmail maintainer or autotools user |
| 15:23.53 | RyanE | elg: yes, but what year did m4 first gain consciousness and become evil? |
| 15:24.24 | elg | are you implying that I didn't gain concsiousness and become evil when I was born? |
| 15:24.53 | RyanE | I'm just implying that it may have taken m4 longer to gain consciousness and follow you down the path of evil... Dr. Evil... |
| 15:25.22 | elg | just for that I'm going to shower with the light off today |
| 15:27.16 | levi | Arg. Does anyone know an easy way with exim to have an alias forward mail to two different non-local addresses? |
| 15:27.38 | levi | I tried putting mailname: address1@host1.com address2@host2.com |
| 15:27.42 | levi | In /etc/aliases |
| 15:27.46 | levi | But that doesn't seem to work. |
| 15:27.50 | elg | did you try commas with no spaces? |
| 15:28.06 | elg | that works in postfix, and I reckon they are both pretending to be sendmail when it comes to something like /etc/aliases |
| 15:28.16 | sinuhe | levi: Is this a one time thing, or domain/system specific? |
| 15:28.28 | levi | Just a one time thing. |
| 15:28.42 | sinuhe | levi: why not use a Mail/mailx alias? |
| 15:29.01 | sinuhe | levi: or a blind copy |
| 15:29.14 | sinuhe | levi: or am I not getting what you mean? |
| 15:29.18 | elg | i think he means it's the only address he plans to do this to in the forseeable future |
| 15:29.31 | sinuhe | ah |
| 15:29.59 | levi | I am trying to get asterisk to send voicemail to two addresses. It doesn't support more than one address in its configuration file, and its documentation suggests setting up an alias. |
| 15:30.40 | elg | levi: welcome to the oft-times silly world of asterisk |
| 15:31.02 | elg | levi: if you can't get exim to behave, you could use a procmail rule |
| 15:31.04 | RyanE | If the addresses are 'friendlies', I'd just setup a procmail on one of the accounts to forward it to the other, but then again, I'm lazy that way. |
| 15:31.28 | elg | it's probably him and his wife. I'd imagine they're 'friendlies' |
| 15:31.31 | levi | I don't want all email to one address to go to both. |
| 15:31.44 | RyanE | you can specify in the procmail rule that it's just mail from asterisk. |
| 15:31.50 | *** join/#utah beandog (n=sdibb@gentoo/developer/beandog) |
| 15:31.54 | sinuhe | I wonder if exim-filter has a cc option that can be made address specific. |
| 15:31.55 | elg | but if he doesn't want all asterisk mail to go to both |
| 15:32.17 | levi | Indeed, I just want mail sent to this alias to go to both. |
| 15:32.20 | elg | of course, exim might support a % hack or + hack or something |
| 15:32.28 | elg | which you could pick up on in procmail |
| 15:32.37 | *** join/#utah neybar (n=jalance@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 15:32.44 | elg | but I think "alias: you,her" should work |
| 15:32.49 | levi | I thought this would be a pretty common thing. |
| 15:32.56 | levi | elg: Trying that now. Fingers are crossed. |
| 15:32.57 | elg | or "alias@example.com: you@example.com,her@example.com" as the case may be |
| 15:33.06 | elg | levi: it is. I'd spurn exim if it doesn't work |
| 15:33.10 | elg | ~dict spurn |
| 15:33.25 | elg | 'course, I already spurned exim, so... |
| 15:33.36 | RyanE | elg: you on Postfix? |
| 15:33.38 | elg | yeah |
| 15:33.49 | sinuhe | Unfortunately, I'm a sendmail nerd who hasn't spent much time with exim, and no time with postfix. |
| 15:34.06 | elg | postfix requires less quality time than exim |
| 15:34.19 | levi | Bah, sending mail to 'testing' sent it off to the smarthost as 'testing@lifeoflevi.com' instead of processing the alias. |
| 15:34.22 | elg | sendmail is like an insecure girlfriend |
| 15:34.30 | levi | Piece of garbage. |
| 15:34.31 | sinuhe | Hey, now. |
| 15:34.54 | JoshH | it is alias: email1, email2 |
| 15:34.57 | RyanE | I like postfix because hey, it's got 'fix' in it's name, so it must already be fixed, right? |
| 15:35.16 | levi | I now officially hate exim. |
| 15:35.16 | elg | RyanE: are you implying postfix can't reproduce? |
| 15:35.22 | RyanE | elg: heh |
| 15:36.09 | elg | levi: w00t! welcome to the club |
| 15:36.27 | elg | really, unless you've invested a lot in a funky exim config you can switch to postfix with almost no effort |
| 15:36.28 | levi | apt-get install postfix |
| 15:36.33 | elg | especially on debian |
| 15:37.03 | elg | though, it _could_ be asterisk tacking on the @lifeoflevi.com, possibly |
| 15:37.11 | *** join/#utah tiwula (n=lane@208.64.90.18.static.utahbroadband.com) |
| 15:37.15 | levi | The following packages will be REMOVED: exim4 exim4-base exim4-config exim4-daemon-light |
| 15:37.17 | levi | Yay! |
| 15:37.25 | levi | elg: It wasn't asterisk sending it. I was sending with mutt. |
| 15:37.47 | levi | I know better than to try to get two unfamiliar systems talking to one another without knowing if they work individually first. :) |
| 15:38.09 | elg | do you have use_domain on or off in muttrc? (default, on) |
| 15:38.28 | levi | Ahh, maybe it's mutt being stupid then. |
| 15:38.33 | levi | I hate mutt, too. |
| 15:38.44 | RyanE | apt-get undo |
| 15:38.51 | elg | in the postfix config (I think the one debian ships) it says something to the effect of "don't tack on the domain, that's the MUA's job" |
| 15:39.15 | elg | however, leaving a domain off is the prerogative of the MUA too, in which case it would do what you'd expect |
| 15:39.31 | elg | so postfix should work the way you expect, but you might need to unset use_domain in mutt |
| 15:40.09 | elg | ah, wait, looks like the default for use_domain on debian is no |
| 15:40.16 | elg | them debian folks is smart |
| 15:41.36 | elg | so you may be able to safely blame exim |
| 15:47.48 | *** join/#utah spr (i=spr@conference/oscon/x-8c626299625785ed) |
| 15:51.37 | levi | Woot! postfix is not braindead! |
| 15:52.32 | RyanE | levi: or postfix is braindead in completely new and interesting ways... |
| 15:53.03 | levi | Possibly, but I'm not really trying to do anything bizarre, so it should work fine. |
| 15:53.28 | RyanE | levi: glad it sounds like it's working for your alias issue. |
| 15:53.49 | levi | Yup, it did exactly what I wanted it to. |
| 15:55.21 | levi | Now my wife and I should both get emails with our new voicemail. |
| 15:57.00 | klys | an imap email and asterisk server are the best way to go |
| 15:57.17 | klys | on the same machine, with a wireless audio setup |
| 15:57.38 | elg | i wouldn't trust asterisk to talk to my imap server |
| 15:57.46 | Tene | Why? |
| 15:58.27 | klys | asterisk recieves email in a nonstandard format? |
| 15:58.43 | klys | s/cie/cei/ |
| 15:58.44 | *** join/#utah diesel (n=dlong@c-67-177-55-108.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 15:59.30 | elg | Tene: because asterisk has a less-than-stellar track record with implementing RFCs, IME |
| 15:59.55 | *** join/#utah decriptor1 (i=decripto@nat/novell/x-3c9d9e947302ba73) |
| 16:01.19 | klys | so, you could have a wired-in microphone and some sort of paging system to take calls, just remind you to go back to the microphone |
| 16:01.50 | klys | then an irc script to page you from screen on the same server |
| 16:02.51 | klys | it might be the only way to get away from the 'this is the number I called you from' system. implement priority numbers, etc. |
| 16:04.48 | klys | a number to identify the type of issue, a number to tell an alarm ... |
| 16:07.01 | klys | and you could set up a sms to email system, post you a picture or what not |
| 16:07.49 | klys | that would be funny to have an irc channel where you got all your sms pictures |
| 16:10.36 | *** join/#utah synic (n=squish@pdpc/supporter/student/synic) |
| 16:11.11 | Shadowwire | Hey Klys |
| 16:11.18 | klys | wzup! |
| 16:11.31 | Shadowwire | Hey man, Answer me this. |
| 16:11.41 | Shadowwire | Whats an amlid |
| 16:11.48 | klys | composed of? |
| 16:11.58 | Shadowwire | uh... sure. |
| 16:12.26 | klys | I figured it was very dense, living, material which had neurons |
| 16:12.45 | Shadowwire | sounds good! |
| 16:13.34 | Shadowwire | yum |
| 16:13.37 | klys | when's the last time you looked at a blank stat? |
| 16:13.49 | Shadowwire | quite ofen actualy. |
| 16:14.01 | Shadowwire | my spelling suffered on that last one. |
| 16:14.42 | klys | that's pretty much all I have to look at, the creation rolls here are a few races out of date. I'd just like to have the ones that are in the actual presentation |
| 16:15.06 | Shadowwire | Cool. Ill e-mail it all to you. |
| 16:15.08 | klys | but yeah, ben was nice enough to provide a 96dpi stat |
| 16:15.20 | Shadowwire | ok |
| 16:15.38 | Shadowwire | what format do you want? |
| 16:15.44 | klys | openoffice |
| 16:15.53 | klys | or txt |
| 16:16.05 | klys | or .wp |
| 16:16.14 | klys | because I have wp 8 |
| 16:16.20 | Shadowwire | ok |
| 16:16.26 | klys | I had wp 2000, but the disk is hard to read |
| 16:16.55 | Shadowwire | yea. have to squint sometimes. |
| 16:17.06 | klys | fwd: d.jeffery@myrealbox.com |
| 16:18.17 | Shadowwire | cool |
| 16:18.56 | klys | are you at work? |
| 16:19.02 | Shadowwire | so, im getting ready to install vmware on my computer then install fedora 7 on that. |
| 16:19.07 | klys | ok |
| 16:19.09 | Shadowwire | yes |
| 16:19.18 | Shadowwire | need to learn linux |
| 16:19.33 | klys | might I ask, who recommended a .rpm system over .deb ? |
| 16:19.57 | Shadowwire | were using fedora7 on our web box. |
| 16:20.06 | klys | you'll find all your missing dependencied at rpmfind.net, incidentally |
| 16:20.14 | Shadowwire | my web programer chose it. |
| 16:20.16 | klys | -cies |
| 16:20.24 | klys | so, he uses a mac iirc |
| 16:20.35 | Shadowwire | yes |
| 16:20.35 | beandog | dependency hell-- portage++ |
| 16:20.37 | beandog | :) |
| 16:20.56 | klys | ;) |
| 16:21.15 | klys | remember to install mplayer |
| 16:21.56 | klys | you probably want the latest version of apache and python? |
| 16:22.21 | Shadowwire | i just need to learn linux. |
| 16:22.33 | klys | ok, get mingw developer studio too |
| 16:22.35 | Shadowwire | i dont plan on using it. |
| 16:22.57 | Shadowwire | linux that is. |
| 16:23.22 | elg | i just need to learn math. I don't plan on using it |
| 16:23.31 | elg | s/math/history/ |
| 16:23.36 | Shadowwire | I might install beos too |
| 16:23.36 | elg | s/math/english/ |
| 16:23.55 | klys | and try uml, to boot another kernel, and run a loopback filesystem and an initrd. there is a nice article about booting a cd from a bootloader I saw the other day. it uses a syslinux memory image |
| 16:23.57 | elg | s/math/the series of tubes that is the intarwebs/ |
| 16:24.16 | elg | s/math/to cook/ |
| 16:24.17 | Shadowwire | english. why do i need that im never going to england. |
| 16:24.37 | elg | s/math/to flirt/ |
| 16:24.42 | klys | haha |
| 16:24.52 | klys | I met a mirror, once |
| 16:24.59 | klys | j/k |
| 16:25.14 | levi | Cool, my Channel Master CM 4220M has shipped. :) |
| 16:25.47 | Shadowwire | well, that was neat. |
| 16:26.29 | klys | so, I remember you asking about where to get an antenna, I guess nowhere good in utah had it reasonably cheap |
| 16:26.46 | levi | klys: It was easier to just order online. |
| 16:26.58 | levi | And it was pretty cheap, too. |
| 16:27.23 | klys | levi: would you remind me the name of an old RPG for Mac OS ? |
| 16:27.28 | Shadowwire | Oh, i just used some antennas that someone else was throwing away. |
| 16:27.35 | Shadowwire | they work great. |
| 16:27.48 | Shadowwire | rocket propelled grenade? |
| 16:27.56 | levi | klys: Which one? |
| 16:28.00 | *** join/#utah tristanbob (n=tristan@oalug/member/tristanbob) |
| 16:28.11 | klys | a game, you spent a while with it, starts with a Q |
| 16:28.18 | Shadowwire | sorry, thought you were talking to me. |
| 16:28.38 | klys | you are both my friend |
| 16:28.44 | Shadowwire | s |
| 16:29.24 | klys | and you go into a cave with it and then you fly around in space |
| 16:29.42 | elg | Quark. Quasar. Quintibelle. Quickdraw McGraw. Quoits |
| 16:29.56 | klys | still missing |
| 16:30.50 | elg | Qualhgers |
| 16:30.52 | klys | I don't know |
| 16:31.25 | Shadowwire | hmm. You go into a cave then fly arround in space? |
| 16:31.27 | beandog | Qbert? |
| 16:31.44 | klys | it's a roleplaying game. in the cave you fall down a cliff |
| 16:31.51 | Shadowwire | q-space spelunker? |
| 16:31.56 | klys | it has a map but it's in b&w |
| 16:32.08 | klys | and it's pretty long |
| 16:33.08 | *** join/#utah synic (n=squish@pdpc/supporter/student/synic) |
| 16:33.34 | klys | shadowwire: are you installing vmware at work? |
| 16:34.46 | Shadowwire | yea |
| 16:35.05 | klys | what drivers does linux have for your system? |
| 16:35.15 | klys | see: the hardware compatibility howto |
| 16:36.11 | klys | someone in the newspaper today was looking for another friend of mine |
| 16:36.25 | klys | levi: are you in the kitchen? |
| 16:36.36 | levi | No, I'm at work. |
| 16:36.39 | klys | ok |
| 16:36.41 | klys | ttyl |
| 16:37.02 | klys | shadowwire: do you have vmware on there yet? |
| 16:37.16 | Shadowwire | just got it installed |
| 16:38.37 | Shadowwire | now i need to figure it out too. |
| 16:39.06 | elg | king's Quest? |
| 16:39.10 | klys | vmware has a few things over bochs or so I hear. It might be fun to run dos with vmware |
| 16:39.10 | elg | space Quest? |
| 16:39.16 | elg | quest of the quibbles? |
| 16:39.22 | klys | that's an AGI game for pcs and ataris |
| 16:39.26 | *** join/#utah TimRiker (n=timr@216.49.181.128) |
| 16:39.26 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 16:39.34 | *** mode/#utah [-o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 16:39.37 | klys | space quest sounds vaguely familiar |
| 16:40.04 | levi | klys: Oh, you're thinking of Quarterstaff, I think. |
| 16:40.27 | levi | One of the Mac-only Infocom games. |
| 16:40.43 | klys | oh thx levi! |
| 16:43.20 | elg | or maybe quarterback |
| 16:43.54 | klys | elg: you golf? |
| 16:44.09 | klys | nm |
| 16:44.24 | Shadowwire | Just setting up the disk now. |
| 16:44.48 | Shadowwire | ops my system just crashed. |
| 16:44.53 | klys | haha |
| 16:44.59 | Shadowwire | jk |
| 16:45.32 | Shadowwire | flames coming out the side. |
| 16:47.36 | klys | I think vmware emulates a 3com or intel network card |
| 16:51.04 | klys | shadowwire: are you reading an online manual for vmware? |
| 16:51.12 | Shadowwire | no |
| 16:51.37 | klys | I'm just wondering about a good manual for it |
| 16:54.11 | Shadowwire | i dunno? |
| 16:55.12 | klys | http://www.vmware.com/support/ws55/doc/ws_net.html |
| 16:55.17 | brac | [Configuring a Virtual Network] |
| 16:57.39 | klys | this whole vmware thing has me wondering about the mit exokernel |
| 17:01.30 | klys | not much has been done with exopc |
| 17:02.07 | levi | Cool, my HDHomeRun shipped, too. |
| 17:03.11 | klys | at least this tuner is likely to get good audio |
| 17:03.37 | klys | one could only wish it used esound for a transmission protocol |
| 17:05.39 | Shadowwire | well fedora is now installing. |
| 17:05.42 | klys | on vmware for linux: vmware-package provides a 'make-vmpkg' utility that creates Debian packages; Please note that the resulting packages files are non-free and non-distributable. |
| 17:06.07 | Shadowwire | o... k... |
| 17:06.46 | *** join/#utah fungus (n=olsonl@mailhub.sosstaffing.com) |
| 17:07.08 | Shadowwire | listening to inagodadavda |
| 17:07.18 | klys | such a phun song |
| 17:08.37 | Shadowwire | indeed. |
| 17:09.08 | klys | I like "never ending nightmare" a lot more than I used to |
| 17:09.30 | Shadowwire | that... is a great song. |
| 17:09.57 | Shadowwire | "punnishing me for the things I do" |
| 17:10.43 | Shadowwire | it makes no difference. |
| 17:11.13 | klys | ~to you or me |
| 17:11.32 | Shadowwire | i think my favorite song, as of late, has to be blurry by Puddle of mud |
| 17:11.43 | klys | mudd ? |
| 17:11.47 | klys | ;) |
| 17:11.51 | Shadowwire | si sinior |
| 17:12.30 | klys | so yesterday I picked up a list of 'alternative' songs |
| 17:13.44 | klys | includes: 3EB, audioslave, blink, fall out boy, fuel |
| 17:13.57 | klys | and STP of course |
| 17:14.38 | klys | I was just thinking that a lot of these bands are after my time |
| 17:14.44 | Shadowwire | mi gusta nadar con diez muheres des nudes. |
| 17:15.18 | Shadowwire | thats for sure. |
| 17:15.43 | Shadowwire | listen to much Metallica anymore? |
| 17:16.09 | Shadowwire | 597 of 805 packages completed |
| 17:16.16 | klys | ah, heard some yesterday, put on coldplay instead |
| 17:16.30 | klys | you're probably just getting the stable version |
| 17:16.33 | Shadowwire | hmm. |
| 17:16.50 | Shadowwire | stable version? |
| 17:17.08 | Shadowwire | as in, not buggy |
| 17:17.13 | klys | you know, fedora 'known to work' attached version number |
| 17:17.13 | Shadowwire | ? |
| 17:17.47 | klys | so that a version number is applied to the whole system libc6 to the top |
| 17:17.52 | Shadowwire | aparently it comes with gnome. |
| 17:18.10 | Shadowwire | libc6? |
| 17:18.16 | klys | I'd stick with mostly stable gtk, don't recompile gtk lately it won't work |
| 17:18.37 | klys | libc6 is the thing that makes everything else run (bash, fdisk, /bin/ls, etc.)( |
| 17:18.52 | Shadowwire | does it stand for something? |
| 17:19.05 | klys | the gnu C library, version number attached |
| 17:19.19 | klys | it's the file pointed to by /lib/libc.so.6 |
| 17:21.08 | herlo | Shadowwire: libc is the core piece of how authentication and authorization of linux users used to work. PAM still uses it to day |
| 17:21.11 | herlo | today |
| 17:21.24 | herlo | Shadowwire: check out pam_unix.so when you get a chance |
| 17:21.41 | klys | you can configure ld.so in /etc/ld.so.conf if you require other libraries to be preloaded. each ELF binary usually includes a reference to something in /lib |
| 17:30.11 | klys | oh, you need an editor. type `emacs -nw' |
| 17:39.29 | sinuhe | I still remember the a.out days. It was a much smoother transition with BSD. |
| 17:39.59 | klys | I've even had to use some a.out linking for video applications with svgalib |
| 17:40.06 | Shadowwire | rebooting |
| 17:41.12 | klys | ever used `svidtune' ? |
| 17:41.23 | Shadowwire | nope |
| 17:41.36 | klys | sinuhe: you? |
| 17:42.20 | Shadowwire | so, What OS do you prefer? (anyone respond) |
| 17:42.21 | sinuhe | xvidtune |
| 17:42.28 | sinuhe | Never have used svidtune |
| 17:42.48 | klys | I prefer... max os, because there are lots of fun apps on the mac os machines I have access to |
| 17:43.00 | klys | mac.. |
| 17:43.11 | klys | but, I have never installed fink |
| 17:43.18 | Shadowwire | is that os-10? |
| 17:43.23 | klys | usually |
| 17:43.57 | klys | safari was being a piece of junk yesterday |
| 17:44.12 | klys | it was making part of the google search box invisible |
| 17:44.29 | klys | have you tried out the windows version? |
| 17:44.49 | Shadowwire | i hav'nt. |
| 17:45.13 | sinuhe | klys: does konqueror have the same problem with the google search box? |
| 17:45.15 | klys | sinuhe: svidtune is loads of fun with older video cards |
| 17:45.22 | klys | let's see |
| 17:46.22 | klys | no problems here |
| 17:47.07 | Shadowwire | I like firefox |
| 17:47.46 | Shadowwire | i didnt know there was a windows version of Safari |
| 17:47.51 | klys | it's new |
| 17:50.11 | pr0le | safari on windows crashes on me constantly |
| 17:50.16 | pr0le | great for light browsing though |
| 17:51.16 | klys | cool thx for the heads up |
| 17:52.59 | *** join/#utah TimRiker (n=timr@216.49.181.128) |
| 17:52.59 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 17:54.41 | redbeard2 | http://cheddarvision.tv/ |
| 17:54.42 | brac | [cheddarvision.tv » Live Cheddar Cheese direct from the Westcountry »] |
| 17:55.25 | sinuhe | Funny, funny redbeard2 |
| 17:55.56 | redbeard2 | sinuhe: what's so funny about it? |
| 17:56.18 | sinuhe | redbeard2: You always have the most interesting, obscure websites to find. |
| 17:56.19 | redbeard2 | watching cheese age 24/7 may be exciting, but what could possibly be amusing? |
| 17:56.30 | redbeard2 | sinuhe: it's from a student. i blame them. |
| 17:56.38 | sinuhe | redbeard2: Hence redbeard2 being funny, not the site. |
| 17:56.51 | sinuhe | redbeard2: students are always to blame. :-) |
| 17:56.57 | redbeard2 | ~whatleslap sinuhe |
| 17:57.02 | redbeard2 | ~whaleslap sinuhe |
| 17:57.03 | ibot | ACTION beats sinuhe upside and over the head with a freakishly huge killer whale named Hugh |
| 17:57.19 | sinuhe | ~blah redbeard2 |
| 17:57.27 | redbeard2 | ~whaleparry sinuhe |
| 17:57.28 | ibot | ACTION uses a slightly less-huge but eminently more agile killer whale named Edwardo to parry sinuhe's attacks. |
| 17:57.35 | redbeard2 | ~whalebomb sinuhe |
| 17:57.35 | ibot | ACTION throws an explosive whale named Gunter at sinuhe and hides. |
| 17:58.03 | Shadowwire | pull the pin and throw it back! |
| 17:59.35 | redbeard2 | Shadowwire: sinuhe is just jealous of my obscure whales |
| 17:59.54 | redbeard2 | come to think of it, obscure whale would be a good name for a band |
| 17:59.59 | goozbach | ~cyberhack redbeard2 |
| 17:59.59 | ibot | see ghosthack redbeard2 |
| 18:00.25 | redbeard2 | ~ghosthack goozbach |
| 18:00.25 | ibot | ACTION plugs into goozbach's cyberbrain and gets busy |
| 18:00.30 | goozbach | ~ghosthack redbeard2 |
| 18:00.30 | ibot | ACTION plugs into redbeard2's cyberbrain and gets busy |
| 18:00.31 | redbeard2 | ew! |
| 18:01.58 | goozbach | ibot: sinuhe $sjansen is <action> describes all the benefits of GNU*PLUS*Linux to $sjansen |
| 18:01.59 | ibot | okay, goozbach |
| 18:02.17 | goozbach | ~sinuhe redbeard2 |
| 18:02.18 | ibot | ACTION describes all the benefits of GNU*PLUS*Linux to redbeard2 |
| 18:02.32 | klys | that was staged |
| 18:02.44 | goozbach | DUH |
| 18:02.50 | goozbach | ~duh klys |
| 18:02.54 | klys | besides, it's GNU/Linux |
| 18:03.50 | sinuhe | Actually, GNU+Linux is becoming more common. We've revolted against rms, because we're getting sick of pronouncing what we write (GNU-Slash-Linux), and want to say what we actually mean: GNU with the Linux kernel. |
| 18:04.40 | sinuhe | For instance, Musix and UTUTO-e are downloadable from the GNU ftp server under the GNU+Linuxdistros directory. |
| 18:05.01 | sinuhe | Or was that GNU+Linux-distros? I don't remember. |
| 18:05.41 | klys | so, it's not just 'dists', check it out |
| 18:07.10 | Shadowwire | Im so confused. |
| 18:08.18 | klys | you need to pay less attention and ask more simple questions |
| 18:08.33 | ^Migs^ | http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8996836251682690877&hl=en |
| 18:08.47 | sinuhe | ibot: blah is Blah, blah; woof, woof. Whatever! |
| 18:08.48 | ibot | ...but blah is already something else... |
| 18:08.58 | sinuhe | ibot: woof is Blah, blah; woof, woof. Whatever! |
| 18:08.58 | ibot | ...but woof is already something else... |
| 18:09.10 | sinuhe | ibot: whatever is Blah, blah; woof, woof. Whatever! |
| 18:09.11 | ibot | ...but whatever is already something else... |
| 18:09.15 | sinuhe | Damnit |
| 18:09.43 | klys | that directory only contains ututo-e |
| 18:09.51 | sinuhe | Shadowwire: what are you confused about? |
| 18:09.56 | klys | don't ask |
| 18:09.59 | sinuhe | klys: Look inside the ututo-e directory. |
| 18:10.06 | klys | I know, there's a lot |
| 18:10.18 | sinuhe | ibot: blahblah is Blah, blah; woof, woof. Whatever! |
| 18:10.18 | ibot | ...but blahblah is already something else... |
| 18:10.42 | sinuhe | ibot: blahwoof is Blah, blah; woof, woof. Whatever! |
| 18:10.43 | ibot | sinuhe: okay |
| 18:11.02 | sinuhe | ~blahwoof |
| 18:11.02 | ibot | well, blahwoof is Blah, blah; woof, woof. Whatever! |
| 18:11.16 | goozbach | ~play elsewhere |
| 18:11.29 | sinuhe | Apparently |
| 18:11.32 | goozbach | ibot: tell sinuhe about logs |
| 18:12.54 | klys | tell me about logs |
| 18:13.02 | klys | ~logs |
| 18:13.02 | ibot | somebody said logs was apt/ibot/infobot/jbot/purl all log daily to http://ibot.rikers.org/<channelname>/ where channelname is html encoded ie: %23debian | lines that start with a space are not shown | some channels have stats at http://ibot.rikers.org/stats/<channelname>.html.gz |
| 18:13.40 | sinuhe | ibot: blahwoof is $target Blah, blah; woof, woof. Whatever, $target |
| 18:13.41 | ibot | ...but blahwoof is already something else... |
| 18:14.09 | sinuhe | I give up |
| 18:14.16 | klys | you know, I think logs is a conniving post |
| 18:14.26 | sinuhe | Now I am jealous of redbeard2's whales. |
| 18:15.11 | klys | nob! |
| 18:15.39 | goozbach | there are various whale commands |
| 18:15.47 | goozbach | ~whalenuke redbeard2 |
| 18:15.48 | ibot | ACTION dons his radiation cloak and tinted glasses while a highly intelligent whale named Ray precipitates critical mass for uncontrolled nuclear fission around redbeard2 with his mind powers |
| 18:16.01 | sinuhe | ibot: whatver is $target Blah, blah; woof, woof. Whatever, $target |
| 18:16.03 | ibot | okay, sinuhe |
| 18:16.11 | sinuhe | ibot: whatever is $target Blah, blah; woof, woof. Whatever, $target |
| 18:16.13 | ibot | ...but whatever is already something else... |
| 18:16.39 | sinuhe | ibot: blahwoofwoof is $target Blah, blah; woof, woof. Whatever, $target |
| 18:16.40 | ibot | okay, sinuhe |
| 18:16.43 | sinuhe | There we go |
| 18:16.52 | sinuhe | ~blahwoofwoof redbeard2 |
| 18:17.09 | sinuhe | Or maybe not... |
| 18:17.16 | klys | so much about whatever, you know that's my samba machine name |
| 18:17.17 | sinuhe | ~blahwoofwoof redbeard2 |
| 18:17.24 | sinuhe | Sigh |
| 18:17.46 | goozbach | ibot: forget blahwoofwoof |
| 18:17.46 | ibot | goozbach: i forgot blahwoofwoof |
| 18:18.29 | goozbach | ibot: blahwoofwoof $whomever is Blah, blah; woof, woof. Whatever, $whomever |
| 18:18.30 | ibot | okay, goozbach |
| 18:18.43 | goozbach | ~blahwoofwoof sinuhe |
| 18:18.44 | ibot | Blah, blah; woof, woof. Whatever, goozbachmever |
| 18:18.58 | goozbach | oops |
| 18:19.02 | sinuhe | goozbach: try just blahwoof |
| 18:19.04 | goozbach | ibot: forget blahwoofwoof |
| 18:19.04 | ibot | goozbach: i didn't have anything called 'blahwoofwoof' to forget |
| 18:19.32 | goozbach | ibot: no, blahwoofwoof $ever is Blah, blah; woof, woof. Whatever, $ever |
| 18:19.33 | ibot | goozbach: okay |
| 18:19.37 | goozbach | ~blahwoofwoof sinuhe |
| 18:19.37 | ibot | Blah, blah; woof, woof. Whatever, sinuhe |
| 18:20.01 | sinuhe | ibot: forget blahwoof |
| 18:20.01 | ibot | sinuhe: i forgot blahwoof |
| 18:20.05 | *** join/#utah findlay-w (n=justin@gocastlerock.com) |
| 18:20.10 | sinuhe | ibot: forget blahwoofwoof |
| 18:20.10 | ibot | sinuhe: i didn't have anything called 'blahwoofwoof' to forget |
| 18:20.32 | klys | shadowwire: do you want to do something? |
| 18:20.39 | sinuhe | ibot: blahwoof $target is Blah, blah; woof, woof. Whatever, $target |
| 18:20.39 | ibot | okay, sinuhe |
| 18:20.47 | sinuhe | ~blahwoof goozbach |
| 18:20.47 | ibot | Blah, blah; woof, woof. Whatever, goozbach |
| 18:20.52 | sinuhe | About bloody time. |
| 18:21.01 | klys | shadowwire: you could try joining another channel |
| 18:21.38 | findlay-w | hello |
| 18:21.42 | klys | hey man |
| 18:23.28 | klys | you know, I think you'd go with the 'nothing to hide argument' on a lot of this stuff |
| 18:25.53 | ^Migs^ | http://www.ulc.net/index.php?page=prayer |
| 18:25.54 | brac | [Universal Life Church] |
| 18:37.52 | mrpull | does anyone have a pix 515e they'd be willing to loan me for a couple weeks? |
| 18:38.12 | elg | a who? |
| 18:38.51 | redbeard2 | ~migs sinuhe |
| 18:38.51 | ibot | ACTION forces sinuhe to learn perl from ^Migs^ |
| 18:39.45 | ^Migs^ | is that a breed of dog? |
| 18:40.02 | klys | sounds like a nice piece of hardware to me |
| 18:43.54 | elg | Jayce^, rsimpkins: I have a book review on my blog that could go on the plug site. I'm willing to put 5 minutes of effort into doing so. |
| 18:48.15 | decriptor1 | did anyone get the understanding the linux kernel from oreilly? if so, does it need a review? |
| 18:49.21 | elg | i have it, but I didn't get it from plug |
| 18:49.29 | elg | it was the text for one of my classes |
| 18:57.04 | levi | If anyone's planning on building a HTPC, mwave.com has a case for $113.50 w/$70 mail-in rebate, bringing the cost down to $40: http://www.eagletechusa.com/Product_Media.asp?Product_ID=125 |
| 18:57.15 | brac | [Eagle Tech Computers, Inc. - Eagle Tech EC2 Home Theater Case w 450 Power supply - Silver] |
| 18:58.14 | findlay-w | what are those little black rectangular pieces with a bunch of pins on each side that are soldered into circuit boards called? |
| 18:58.35 | levi | ICs? |
| 18:58.53 | findlay-w | what does ICs mean? |
| 18:58.59 | levi | Integrated circuits |
| 18:59.16 | findlay-w | so it's just a packet of circuit components then? |
| 18:59.39 | levi | AKA microchip, chip, etc. |
| 19:00.28 | levi | Yes, it's generally a digital circuit etched in silicon and encased in a plastic package. |
| 19:00.51 | levi | Or digital circuit components. |
| 19:01.18 | levi | There are different names for the different types of packaging, too. |
| 19:02.11 | levi | The rectangular ones with pins on the long sides are called DIPs. |
| 19:02.25 | levi | Some of them carry analog or mixed components, too. |
| 19:03.34 | levi | There are also names that refer to the density of the digital circuitry within them, like VLSI. |
| 19:04.41 | *** topic/#utah by elg -> The channel for content free discussion in Utah | http://plug.org/irc | Utah Open Source Conference - September 6-8, 2007 - https://register.utosc.org | I blame #utah for my obesity http://tinyurl.com/2tbzak |
| 19:08.59 | elg | ~distract findlay-w |
| 19:08.59 | ibot | ACTION puts on a red wig and saunters past findlay-w with a cold beer in her hand. "Hello, sailor! Wanna go for a ride?" |
| 19:09.11 | elg | findlay-w: where are you from? |
| 19:14.35 | findlay-w | elg: Utah |
| 19:15.16 | elg | ever lived outside? |
| 19:16.30 | findlay-w | no |
| 19:16.33 | elg | just curious why you would think that girls would be less flirtatious outside of utah |
| 19:16.43 | findlay-w | I don't necessarily |
| 19:16.46 | decriptor1 | aaaaaah a bubble kid |
| 19:17.02 | findlay-w | just that Provo is a weird bubble |
| 19:17.10 | findlay-w | and I want to get out of it |
| 19:17.26 | findlay-w | levi: I'm looking at a component that I need to figure out what it is |
| 19:17.44 | findlay-w | it's a black cube with 4 pins coming out of it |
| 19:18.08 | findlay-w | looking at the datasheet it seems there's something like a transformer inside of it, but it doesn't function like a transformer |
| 19:18.18 | findlay-w | do you know what it might be called? |
| 19:18.59 | ^Migs^ | maybe because outside Utah people are less sexually repressed |
| 19:19.38 | decriptor1 | I wouldn't say that lowers the flirting by a ton, but interesting thought :P |
| 19:19.56 | ^Migs^ | that's my theory, at least |
| 19:20.26 | elg | i didn't go to high school (was home schooled), but still got flirted with more in new mexico during the high school years than I did while at BYU |
| 19:20.47 | elg | maybe that's cuz I was a hunk lifeguard though, who can say? |
| 19:20.55 | ^Migs^ | that would make a huge difference |
| 19:21.03 | ^Migs^ | chicks dig hunky shirtless lifeguards |
| 19:21.23 | elg | well I was a lifeguard, and am tall, but I don't think I qualified as hunk. skinny would be more likely |
| 19:21.28 | elg | and now #utah made me fat |
| 19:21.32 | ^Migs^ | yeah, thanks a lot #utah |
| 19:21.40 | ^Migs^ | I can't seem to drop below 210 |
| 19:21.52 | decriptor1 | man and this whole time I blamed it on being married and having kids |
| 19:22.05 | elg | decriptor1: isn't it liberating to know where the true blame lies? |
| 19:22.12 | levi | findlay-w: Does it have a number on it that you can type into google? |
| 19:22.27 | levi | Well, I'm not fat, so you can't blame it on me. |
| 19:22.27 | elg | or does it have a number on it that you can not type into google? |
| 19:22.47 | elg | if so, I think that might be worth something |
| 19:23.01 | elg | levi: if I lose weight I can blame it on you |
| 19:23.07 | levi | elg: OK. |
| 19:23.10 | decriptor1 | ditto |
| 19:23.45 | findlay-w | levi: yeah |
| 19:25.42 | findlay-w | triad |
| 19:30.23 | sinuhe | elg: I thought we decided long ago that Canada was to blame for everything? (Though there was the question about students also being to blame earlier.) |
| 19:40.43 | klys | findlay-w: is it some kind of bridge rectifier? if not, it may be an inductor |
| 19:43.00 | findlay-w | klys: its a triad |
| 19:43.30 | findlay-w | sinuhe: the MPAA/RIAA seems to be convinced that Canada is to blame for all their troubles |
| 19:44.25 | levi | findlay-w: That's probably a brand name or something. |
| 19:44.55 | levi | A triac would be a kind of part. |
| 19:45.02 | findlay-w | levi: it might be, but there appears to be a brand name on the component itself |
| 19:45.04 | findlay-w | ah |
| 19:45.07 | findlay-w | :) |
| 19:45.26 | levi | Where did you see 'triad'? |
| 19:50.12 | RyanE | Is the Triad Spelled like TR][AD? like the old apple ][? |
| 19:55.02 | *** join/#utah markl (n=mark@c-24-10-214-91.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 19:56.26 | findlay-w | well the guy on the phone said 'triac' and I heard 'triad' |
| 19:56.57 | findlay-w | then I saw the TR][AD site and made a slightly absurd correlation |
| 19:57.06 | findlay-w | but I recognize my error now |
| 19:57.36 | RyanE | yeah, a triac is a type of power driver. You can use them to make dimmers and switches. |
| 19:57.52 | findlay-w | in our case it powers a bank of relays |
| 20:00.59 | RyanE | findlay-w: you doing board repair? |
| 20:03.20 | findlay-w | there's a guy here who's in charge of everything electrical, mechanical, and automotive who had me help him look for replacement parts online |
| 20:03.38 | findlay-w | kind of hard since he doesn't know English too well |
| 20:14.21 | Shadowwire | sup? |
| 20:16.57 | Shadowwire | Why does vmwaretools never load how they're supposed to? |
| 20:19.05 | findlay-w | ~cookie |
| 20:31.16 | unum | ~cookie |
| 20:31.34 | Shadowwire | 6 |
| 20:31.46 | unum | ~fortune |
| 20:31.46 | ibot | fortune is, like, a kickass app available for Linux. Packages are in OZ and http://frob.us/modules.php?name=Fortune lets you use fortune over the web. |
| 20:32.57 | findlay-w | levi: it appears this IC I'm looking at is a 'quad 2-input exclusive-OR gate' that comes in DIP and SOIC varieties |
| 20:37.56 | RyanE | I thought you said it had 4 pins coming out... a quad 2-input XOR would have 12 pins (2 inputs, 1 output * 4), plus power and gnd... |
| 20:38.23 | findlay-w | well, this is the other component |
| 20:38.48 | findlay-w | and the 2 inpux XOR has 14 pins |
| 20:39.16 | Shadowwire | how many pins on a dual J/K flip flop? |
| 20:39.26 | RyanE | I would guess 10. |
| 20:39.29 | findlay-w | 3x4 = 12 plus input and ground |
| 20:39.40 | Shadowwire | 14? |
| 20:39.43 | RyanE | b/c a flip flop has 2 inputs, 2 outputs, does it not? |
| 20:39.43 | findlay-w | oh, that's what you said |
| 20:39.54 | Shadowwire | 16? |
| 20:40.00 | findlay-w | I vote 128 |
| 20:40.17 | RyanE | yeah, and 120 of them are extra ground pins. |
| 20:41.43 | findlay-w | how many rails on a JK Rowling flip floppety dual inversed phase jumper? |
| 20:42.06 | RyanE | dual? 26 plus power and ground. (13 pins per phase jumper x 2) |
| 20:42.18 | findlay-w | (with out the optional flux capacitor attached) |
| 20:44.35 | *** join/#utah nick125_treo (n=upirc@m310e36d0.tmodns.net) |
| 20:46.56 | Shadowwire | Now your just being silly. |
| 20:48.02 | *** join/#utah spr (i=spr@conference/oscon/x-2bac6aefa8dda6e8) |
| 20:49.23 | findlay-w | who's being silly? |
| 20:49.52 | Shadowwire | Fred? |
| 20:50.15 | findlay-w | I wonder what a Mercator projection would look like if the full mapping were done rather than trimming out the singularaties at the poles |
| 20:50.33 | elg | how do you mean? |
| 20:50.54 | findlay-w | I've never seen a Mercator projection that included the north and south poles |
| 20:51.00 | elg | or perhaps you are just contemplating a map of finite width and infinite height |
| 20:51.07 | findlay-w | no |
| 20:51.25 | elg | a loxodrome circles infinitely before it gets to the pole |
| 20:51.27 | findlay-w | you just map a 3 sphere to a 2 rectangle |
| 20:51.44 | elg | likewise, a mercator projection stretches more the further north/south you get from the equator |
| 20:51.55 | elg | to get to the pole, your map would have to be infinitely tall, i believe |
| 20:52.16 | RyanE | What's the name of that command-line program that creates large banner-like ascii text? |
| 20:52.17 | findlay-w | I'm sure you could compactify it (or whatever it's called) |
| 20:53.05 | sontek | RyanE: figlet? |
| 20:53.16 | RyanE | YESSSSSHHHH... Thanxks |
| 20:54.13 | findlay-w | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercator_projection#Mathematics_of_the_projection |
| 20:54.39 | elg | "A Mercator map can never fully show the polar areas, since linear scale becomes infinitely high at the poles." |
| 20:55.12 | elg | if you compacted the poles, you wouldn't have a mercator projection anymore would you? |
| 20:55.18 | findlay-w | nope |
| 20:55.32 | findlay-w | ~compact elg |
| 20:57.36 | *** join/#utah mrpull (n=mrpull@205.158.184.126.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 21:01.39 | klys | what of today! |
| 21:02.11 | elg | ~spoil klys |
| 21:03.25 | klys | bricks, man |
| 21:03.31 | elg | hey, will you check and see if my keys are in there? thanks |
| 21:03.47 | klys | hehe, sure, man, they aren't :( |
| 21:04.25 | klys | but, we've got plenty to eat ;) |
| 21:05.59 | sontek | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:06.27 | klys | sound's like the chan's on snooze mode |
| 21:07.06 | findlay | ~wake #utah |
| 21:07.07 | ibot | ACTION throws a barrel-full of ice water on #utah and shouts "GOOD MORNING!!!!" |
| 21:07.46 | klys | shatter |
| 21:08.08 | findlay | heh, there's so many phases of matter theses days it's hard to know which |
| 21:08.48 | klys | lessee, a dial j/k flip-flop: 7 pins each, 14 total (because the package has two dual flip-flops) |
| 21:09.07 | findlay | is there a bonus action figure? |
| 21:09.16 | klys | master / slave |
| 21:09.57 | klys | now, a shift register is a different story |
| 21:10.15 | klys | you could build an alu out of dips |
| 21:10.37 | findlay | or an action figure! |
| 21:10.53 | klys | I met a guy this morning who has access to a metal shop |
| 21:10.56 | findlay | 'I am DIP-man!' |
| 21:11.21 | findlay | klys: those are dissapointingly hard to find |
| 21:11.31 | *** join/#utah beandog (n=sdibb@gentoo/developer/beandog) |
| 21:11.38 | klys | yeah, we're so lucky here |
| 21:13.01 | klys | you think dip-man's a dip? just ask him a question he might shift one or two |
| 21:13.54 | *** join/#utah Newsome (n=sorenson@adsl-75-0-136-70.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net) |
| 21:14.00 | klys | what would his eyeballs be like, leds with photodiodes |
| 21:14.45 | klys | I've seen optoisolators in dip packaging |
| 21:16.10 | klys | there should be an action figure for cyclops with a laser in it |
| 21:17.32 | klys | last time I looked at x-men stuff I ended up with a card for `the punisher' because it looked cool |
| 21:21.42 | ^Migs^ | awesome |
| 21:21.59 | *** join/#utah tiwula (n=lane@195.sub-166-161-154.myvzw.com) |
| 21:29.05 | klys | so, the card had a couple of guys jumping out of the air off buildings and another guy in the foreground shooting them both |
| 21:33.45 | klys | and nothing at all was wrong last night... |
| 21:47.28 | Shadowwire | Hu? |
| 21:49.07 | *** join/#utah linuxalien (n=linuxali@macintard.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 21:52.04 | klys | shadowwire: are you now representing missing item #1 ? |
| 21:52.27 | klys | sheesh, I'm pretty sure I'll find it eventually though |
| 21:53.00 | klys | you know, the briefcase with the important documents |
| 21:58.50 | findlay | shaped like a football? |
| 21:59.21 | klys | more like a rectangle, half a foot thick, it's on my watch |
| 22:00.16 | klys | yeah, I soonly sometimes liked to wear mine until I lost it too |
| 22:00.31 | klys | s/I so/so I / |
| 22:01.19 | klys | but, watches have a way of not mattering much |
| 22:01.34 | levi | It would matter if I lost my watch. |
| 22:02.09 | levi | To me, at least. |
| 22:02.18 | klys | yes, I'm sure you have one that someone might order online ;) |
| 22:04.43 | klys | so, is it loud, the alarm, I mean? |
| 22:05.37 | findlay | are dbus and hald unneeded daemons for a server? |
| 22:06.10 | klys | hmm, haven't used those |
| 22:07.24 | klys | dbus is used by gnome-session |
| 22:07.30 | findlay | and kde |
| 22:07.35 | findlay | well kde-4 |
| 22:08.00 | klys | I think hald is for shutdowns and hibernating |
| 22:09.15 | *** join/#utah Lakshmi_ (n=chatzill@adsl-69-109-114-49.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 22:09.41 | klys | libhal1 is actually to keep a running tally of hardware, like acpi might |
| 22:11.10 | *** join/#utah Lakshmi_ (n=chatzill@adsl-69-109-168-167.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 22:23.20 | *** join/#utah sinuhe (n=sinuhe@fencepost.gnu.org) |
| 22:40.23 | *** join/#utah linuxalien (n=linuxali@macintard.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 22:46.55 | *** join/#utah JoshH (i=josh@josh.xmission.com) |
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| 23:57.54 | *** join/#utah brac (i=fugalh@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 23:58.06 | brac | I can't do that Dave. |
| 23:58.30 | jsmith | -chat about the weather |
| 23:58.33 | brac | the weather so I can't find an edirectory consultant, don't let their beauty, money, fame go to a big pan with veggies inside and cooks amcnabb on the sip phone, 1 softphone)... i am not developing anything |