| 00:05.33 | *** join/#utah sinuhe (n=sinuhe@72.16.250.178) |
| 00:18.09 | *** join/#utah Deanz (n=deanz@c-67-177-13-125.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 00:18.34 | fozzmoo | How does one configure an airport base station? |
| 00:24.33 | beandog | air traffic control |
| 00:25.42 | levi_home | fozzmoo: I know there's a program that comes with OS X that does it. |
| 00:26.46 | *** join/#utah mtheath (n=Mike@c-76-23-0-191.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 00:27.04 | mtheath | Please don't see this as ban evasion; I'd just like an explanation of why I was banned without warning/explanation while I was AFK, then I'll be off.. |
| 00:28.24 | fozzmoo | levi_home: you think there's any way to do it from Linux? |
| 00:29.18 | elg | fozzmoo: never seen one, but I'd assume it's just an access point underneath |
| 00:29.43 | fozzmoo | That's what I thought. |
| 00:30.23 | mtheath | Saying "Please stop ______" is often pretty effective with polite people. I've freqeunted this channel for several years now. |
| 00:30.34 | mtheath | But apparently I'm being ignored, and the person who banned me only joined to ban me, so whatever. |
| 00:32.57 | levi_home | fozzmoo: At least originally, they were some sort of SBC with a standard PCMCIA wireless card. |
| 00:33.37 | mtheath | Are you all that against the idea of having me in here? I would have just left, if asked by people in here that I respect. |
| 00:34.11 | fozzmoo | mtheath: I don't know why you were banned, but It would be nice if you weren't so whiny. |
| 00:34.19 | levi_home | mtheath: I don't have any answers for you, sorry. It happened while I was away, too. |
| 00:34.44 | mtheath | fozzmoo, I'm not being whiny. Its retarded to be banned while you're away with no explanation whatsoever. |
| 00:35.00 | fozzmoo | Okay. I'm not going there. |
| 00:35.10 | mtheath | And I'm not complainig about being banned. I'll leave if people want me gone. |
| 00:35.25 | fozzmoo | I'm not speaking for anyone... just guessing... |
| 00:35.38 | fozzmoo | people want you gone because you've annoyed them. |
| 00:36.18 | mtheath | Meh, whatever |
| 00:36.32 | fozzmoo | That's an excellent attitude to take. |
| 00:36.41 | Tene | the traditional response is to /msg the person who banned you. |
| 00:37.24 | mtheath | Tene, seem to be being ignored. |
| 00:37.33 | Tene | Huh. |
| 00:37.49 | mtheath | I'm just going to hang around until Jayce^ gets back. Jayce^ didn't ban me, but he opped the person who did |
| 00:37.56 | Tene | I've never seen Zelut in here before, that I remember. |
| 00:38.04 | Tene | Don't know who he is. |
| 00:38.25 | mtheath | Tene, which is why I'm even more confused about why they joined, got ops, banned me, and apparently parted :P |
| 00:38.44 | Tene | Yeah, that seems pretty weird. |
| 00:38.46 | elg | he's been here |
| 00:38.52 | mtheath | Enough drama, though. I'm just going to wait until Jayce^ gets back and discuss it with him. If he / others want me gone, cool, I'll leave |
| 00:38.58 | elg | he's a regular, though I don't know what his frequency of visitation is |
| 00:39.43 | mtheath | This new O'Reilly book is pretty cool |
| 00:39.54 | mtheath | Only complaint I have is it doesn't go into much depth about database interaction |
| 00:40.15 | mtheath | But it is "PHP in a Nutshell", so it didn't promise much about database interaction anyway |
| 00:41.05 | mtheath | The only problem is Oreilly books tend to be expensive |
| 00:41.17 | mtheath | This is a rather small paperback and it's $29.95 |
| 00:43.34 | mtheath | Hey, does anyone run a blootbot themselves, other than ibot here? |
| 00:44.25 | sinuhe | mtheath: php, eh? What is it you're trying to learn to do? |
| 00:44.36 | mtheath | I just bought it as a reference |
| 00:44.52 | mtheath | I'm working on a PHP-based site at the moment. |
| 00:45.01 | sinuhe | I'm familiar with the Nutshell series. |
| 00:45.45 | mtheath | OK... |
| 00:48.04 | mtheath | Like I said, I'm really impressed |
| 00:48.19 | mtheath | O'Reilly books have a tendency to be very well written, and on a good technical level |
| 00:48.45 | mtheath | A lot of that, I think, is because they hire outside people familiar with the topics to write the books, I believe. |
| 00:48.56 | sinuhe | Actually, you didn't say you were impressed. You said the "book is pretty cool," and that you had a complaint. |
| 00:49.11 | mtheath | meh |
| 00:49.13 | mtheath | ~lart sinuhe |
| 00:49.13 | ibot | takes out a seltzer bottle and sprays sinuhe in the face. You know, one of those old-school seltzer bottles clowns have? Yeah those. Anyway, consider yourself spritzed |
| 00:50.21 | mtheath | I've been exploring a lot of different scripting alternatives for web devlopment |
| 00:50.50 | sinuhe | ruby! |
| 00:50.54 | mtheath | Finally settles on PHP, mainly because its widely supported |
| 00:51.02 | mtheath | This is something that may or may not end up running on my server |
| 00:51.50 | mtheath | PHP is supported on every platform now, and usually available on most hosting providers |
| 00:52.00 | mtheath | Easier to transfer to another server |
| 00:54.20 | mtheath | sinuhe, though, if it was just for my own server, I was leaning towards Perl.. |
| 00:57.20 | sinuhe | I'm not into bastardizing markup with program instructions. I prefer to handle that back end, seemlessly. |
| 00:57.51 | *** part/#utah beandog (n=sdibb@gentoo/developer/beandog) |
| 00:57.52 | mtheath | bah |
| 00:58.03 | mtheath | Had too much pain with Java servlets to like that idea |
| 00:58.41 | sinuhe | I don't think JAVA is a good example. |
| 00:59.25 | sinuhe | s/JAVA/Java/ |
| 01:01.07 | mtheath | I like Java a lot |
| 01:01.12 | mtheath | not servlets -.- |
| 01:01.17 | sinuhe | I can't stand Java. |
| 01:01.20 | mtheath | I'm talking about servlets versus JSP, though |
| 01:01.22 | mtheath | I prefer JSP. |
| 01:07.24 | sinuhe | Java: C that tried to become smalltalk, but has strengths over neither, comparing more to COBAL in its lack of expressiveness, its overhead, and is in its own realm security wise. However, I'm not a Java programmer, so what do I know? |
| 01:10.53 | sinuhe | At least most of it's GPL now. |
| 01:12.23 | *** join/#utah wps (n=wps@208.53.47.251) |
| 01:19.36 | *** join/#utah zerdith__ (n=zerdith@66-188-62-254.dhcp.bycy.mi.charter.com) |
| 01:26.19 | *** join/#utah sjansen (n=sjansen@72.16.250.178) |
| 01:28.59 | sjansen | ~rlart |
| 01:29.00 | ibot | eats Supaplex's liver with some fava beans and a nice chianti |
| 01:36.55 | elg | hmmmm |
| 01:37.08 | elg | shopping for a new car radio. my last one was a dual. died (in warranty) and replaced |
| 01:37.12 | elg | the cd player on that one died |
| 01:37.41 | elg | but it was a fine machine, quite pleased with it, and priced for a cheapskate |
| 01:38.18 | elg | was I just unlucky or do I spend an extra $20 for a different brand? |
| 01:38.29 | elg | This was a Dual |
| 01:46.01 | *** join/#utah fozzmoo (n=fozz@67.110.114.36.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 01:47.24 | sargun_screen | hi |
| 01:50.20 | levi_home | elg: The brand was Dual? |
| 02:00.51 | elg | ya |
| 02:02.07 | emcnabb | ~lart elg |
| 02:02.07 | ibot | sends a legion of lawyers after elg's head |
| 02:26.55 | *** part/#utah fozzmoo (n=fozz@67.110.114.36.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 02:53.39 | mtheath | Wow, thats cool. |
| 02:53.45 | emcnabb | yes, it is |
| 02:54.17 | mtheath | You know, when I popped in and said "Just wanted to know why I got banned", some of the people who joined in the 20 minute conversation about talking about me behind my back could have said something |
| 02:54.22 | mtheath | Instead of just feigned ignorance. |
| 02:54.35 | mtheath | I'm polite. If I'm annoying you, say something and I'll stop or change topic |
| 02:54.54 | mtheath | No idea people here were so jacked up and rude....Respected a lot of people here, even though I disagreed with them. |
| 02:56.27 | emcnabb | just curious, why do you join #utah? |
| 02:56.36 | mtheath | chadbryant, By the way |
| 02:56.49 | mtheath | Its probably the most screwed up thing in the world to talk to me for about an hour in PM |
| 02:56.56 | mtheath | About my military service, encouraging me, etc |
| 02:57.00 | *** join/#utah jayce_home (n=jayce@208.254.183.85) |
| 02:57.07 | mtheath | And then announce to everyone behind my back how I'm lieing. |
| 02:57.14 | mtheath | I really don't want to be in the channel anymore, anyway. |
| 02:58.21 | mtheath | jayce_home, Next time, tell someone they're annoying you. Or give a reason for a ban. |
| 02:58.34 | mtheath | I know I argue with people, but if I'm annoying you, say something and I'll fix it. |
| 02:58.38 | mtheath | I'm a polite person. |
| 02:59.24 | jayce_home | mheath.. I didn't kb you.. I let somebody do it after I had a petition given from people that had left, or others that were going to leave if it didnt.. |
| 02:59.44 | jayce_home | straight up, I could choose to not and lose a lot of the core people, or let it happen.. so I did |
| 02:59.55 | mtheath | jayce_home, I love how those people never say a single thing to me. |
| 03:00.30 | emcnabb | mtheath: I think folks give you plenty of hints |
| 03:01.48 | emcnabb | night all |
| 03:01.59 | mtheath | Meh. I'm argumentative, I know. But if you ask me to change the subject, or shut up for a bit, I'll do it. |
| 03:02.17 | mtheath | I just think its rude, messed up, and cowerdly to talk about me behind my back before you try to talk to me. |
| 03:02.42 | mtheath | jayce_home, How come the person who got to ban me isn't even in here? |
| 03:02.56 | jayce_home | because he's travelling atm |
| 03:03.04 | jayce_home | and only online at the office |
| 03:03.34 | jayce_home | and he got to do it because I think they had some election over it |
| 03:03.42 | mtheath | ..... |
| 03:03.45 | jayce_home | *shrug* that's about all I know |
| 03:04.03 | sargun_screen | hi jayce_home |
| 03:04.11 | jayce_home | howdy |
| 03:04.13 | sargun_screen | Who is the mythtv god in here? |
| 03:04.25 | sargun_screen | I remember seeing one, but I don't remember nick. |
| 03:04.27 | jayce_home | he doesn't hang around too often, but is on the lists |
| 03:04.42 | jayce_home | bbeattie |
| 03:04.57 | jayce_home | a few others know their stuff, but he's the reigning king |
| 03:05.22 | sargun_screen | ah |
| 03:05.24 | sargun_screen | who you be? |
| 03:05.32 | jayce_home | who I be? |
| 03:06.08 | sargun_screen | Well, I mean, what's your are of interest |
| 03:06.12 | mtheath | jayce_home, Is it really too much to ask that people say things to me, and give me a chance to change before they ban me? |
| 03:06.13 | sargun_screen | when it comes to FLOSS |
| 03:06.27 | mtheath | jayce_home, It seems like several epople were people who weren't even in here, who talked behind my back. |
| 03:06.59 | sargun_screen | I hate my teacher. |
| 03:07.15 | mtheath | sargun_screen, whats your mythTV question? I've been playing with it a lot lately... |
| 03:07.29 | jayce_home | Perl, Regex, Apache, mod_perl, Freeside, Billing/finance/etc |
| 03:07.52 | mtheath | Billing/finance/etc? Find me a good free alternative to Microsoft Office :P |
| 03:07.59 | mtheath | (Don't you dare say GNUCash) |
| 03:08.06 | sargun_screen | Oh, well, ya know how zap2it is taking down their feed |
| 03:08.13 | sargun_screen | what should I use instead |
| 03:08.14 | jayce_home | mtheath, office doesn't have anything to do with billing/finance :) |
| 03:08.30 | mtheath | jayce_home, erm, meant MS Money |
| 03:08.33 | jayce_home | and actually for single entity accounting, gnucash is good.. |
| 03:08.44 | jayce_home | and ms money has no business value |
| 03:08.52 | jayce_home | we're talking *real* accounting here |
| 03:09.08 | mtheath | sargun_screen, They haven't discontinued it yet, they discontinue it on 1st of September |
| 03:09.18 | jayce_home | eg reporting to wall street or investors type accounting |
| 03:09.24 | sargun_screen | YEAH, BUT ONCE i'M THERE |
| 03:09.31 | mtheath | sargun_screen, MythTV developers and several others have started a kind of consortium to see about a free / cheap "open" TV schedule info system |
| 03:09.32 | sargun_screen | err, sorry about caps. |
| 03:09.42 | elg | pioneer > kenwood ? |
| 03:09.52 | sargun_screen | agh, I heard aboiut that, but I didn't see any updated on it |
| 03:10.00 | jayce_home | elg, all depends on the model |
| 03:10.21 | bmidgley | mtheath did you submit a utosc proposal? |
| 03:10.22 | mtheath | elg, but my dad does prefer pioneer.. |
| 03:10.54 | elg | http://www.crutchfield.com/S-vFqaOPN9UJ6/cgi-bin/ProdComp.asp?g=300&c=3&s=0&cc=01&pt2=0&compareitems=070XDM6820&compareitems=113KDC135&compareitems=023KEYW36&compareitems=105KDG230&compareitems=113MP205&compareitems=133C3304&compareitems=130DEH1900&x=28&y=5 |
| 03:11.06 | mtheath | bmidgley, I was going to, but I was still living out of state and not planning on attending, until after the deadline, apparently. |
| 03:11.09 | jayce_home | hey bmidgley ... you'll be ready for your talk right :) |
| 03:11.09 | elg | that's what I'm looking at |
| 03:11.15 | mtheath | sargun_screen, take a look at http://easytvdata.org/ |
| 03:11.32 | bmidgley | jayce_home: i'm just putting my last 3 talks together |
| 03:11.34 | mtheath | sargun_screen, not much info, but its apparently recently updated |
| 03:11.37 | elg | the dual has the most features for price, but my last two dual radios broke so I'm not sure whether I'm just unlucky or they're crappy |
| 03:11.39 | bmidgley | I've never talked about any one thing for 90 minutes |
| 03:11.56 | mtheath | sargun_screen, I'm assuming they're planning / trying / hoping to get setup before Zap2it goes down. |
| 03:12.17 | elg | tempted to give up the mp3 cd capability and go with the $80 kenwood, but otoh I might spring for the $100 price point |
| 03:12.30 | bmidgley | mtheath: it's a soft deadline i'm sure fwiw |
| 03:12.37 | jayce_home | elg, yeah right you'll spring for more... |
| 03:12.46 | elg | there's always a chance :) |
| 03:12.57 | mtheath | bmidgley, That and herlo, who is I believe in charge of programming dislikes me. |
| 03:13.08 | mtheath | And a lot of people in here regard one of the main things I'd want to present on as a joke for some reason :P |
| 03:13.13 | bmidgley | mtheath: what topic? |
| 03:13.16 | elg | this will hook up to stock speakers and my car is fairly noisy |
| 03:13.37 | jayce_home | mtheath, nah, it's only been flexible in the business topics, where we needed more, or some of the better speakers wouldn't commit until it was more fleshed out |
| 03:13.38 | mtheath | bmidgley, GNU Mach + GNU Hurd, and the GNU operating system. |
| 03:13.42 | elg | so nuances would be lost, but driving my speakers well will be all important |
| 03:14.19 | jayce_home | we had the tech topic in time, but the business leadership ones needed more.. |
| 03:14.33 | bmidgley | ok i was wrong |
| 03:15.26 | bmidgley | it would be interesting to hear the history of mach and what ended up in osx, hurd, next |
| 03:15.38 | bmidgley | also the U had some experimental mach variants |
| 03:15.57 | mtheath | The U's OSKIT is being used in the next generation GNU Mach microkernel. |
| 03:16.13 | bmidgley | what about nanokernels? |
| 03:16.15 | mtheath | To facilitate better device driver compatability. |
| 03:17.14 | bmidgley | i put the hfsutils userland filesystem tools into mach in a former life |
| 03:17.38 | mtheath | bmidgley, I don't think nano-kernels have ever been practical for real OS design. |
| 03:17.38 | bmidgley | mach is really big |
| 03:17.40 | bmidgley | in size :) |
| 03:17.45 | mtheath | Meh, yeah. |
| 03:17.53 | mtheath | Thats why theres a move to transition the hurd to the L4 mirokernel |
| 03:18.08 | mtheath | bmidgley, It's a bit sluggish in preformance, too |
| 03:18.24 | bmidgley | isn't there a linux port that will host on l4? |
| 03:18.29 | mtheath | Yeah |
| 03:18.39 | mtheath | Never really understood the point of that, though...but I haven't ready much on it |
| 03:18.52 | mtheath | l4linux.org |
| 03:19.02 | sargun_screen | what's the advantages of using a |
| 03:19.19 | mtheath | a......? |
| 03:19.22 | sargun_screen | modularized (Linux) kernel |
| 03:19.32 | sargun_screen | over one with all compiled-in modules |
| 03:19.59 | mtheath | Thats a change of topic. Hope you're not confused, because that really has nothing to do with Micorkernels nad such... |
| 03:20.21 | bmidgley | in the big picture, linux modules vs compiled in are extremely similar |
| 03:20.33 | bmidgley | under a microkernel the drivers would be a lot less able to panic the kernel |
| 03:21.04 | mtheath | But modular Linux kernels generally have the advantage of allowing lots of hardware support, without compromising any preformance, kernel size, etc. or creating incompatabilities |
| 03:21.18 | sargun_screen | No |
| 03:21.21 | sargun_screen | I meaan |
| 03:21.22 | sargun_screen | like |
| 03:21.24 | sargun_screen | er |
| 03:21.30 | sargun_screen | off-topic, changing topic. |
| 03:21.53 | sargun_screen | mtheath: how so? |
| 03:22.10 | sargun_screen | wouldn't a module conflict the same as a compiled-in driver? |
| 03:22.32 | mtheath | sargun_screen, No, because you only load the modules you need. |
| 03:22.34 | mtheath | Or thats the concept |
| 03:22.45 | mtheath | Conflicts aren't the big problem, though |
| 03:22.58 | mtheath | On modern systems, its hard for drivers to conflict each other merely by being loaded in memory |
| 03:23.02 | mtheath | The biggest issue is... |
| 03:23.10 | mtheath | Look at a Live CD |
| 03:23.25 | mtheath | You want to keep the kernel small so it loads off the CD and into memory quikcly |
| 03:23.41 | mtheath | Yet you also need to support every piece of hardware under the sun |
| 03:24.15 | mtheath | sargun_screen, Modules also allow the insertion of additional drivers of kernel-priveleged code while the machine is running. |
| 03:24.38 | mtheath | S/of/or/g |
| 03:26.18 | mtheath | I dislike the whole concept of modules, though... |
| 03:26.24 | mtheath | At least their security model. |
| 03:27.02 | mtheath | Requiring kernel level prieveleges to do anything that is historically known to be kernelish, is silly |
| 03:27.14 | *** join/#utah jsmith (n=jsmith@h46055150.area3.spcsdns.net) |
| 03:27.18 | mtheath | Considering that a great many of those tasks can be done safely in the userland. |
| 03:27.50 | mtheath | Theres Linux userpace filesystem support projects and the like, but all of those have to hack around a security model that really fights their existance. |
| 03:28.17 | mtheath | bmidgley, I would have enjoyed giving a presentation on Mach, too. |
| 03:28.25 | mtheath | Hurd is far more interesting than Mach, though |
| 03:28.35 | mtheath | Thats where the magic happens, I guess :P |
| 03:28.41 | bmidgley | i like how much hurd does outside the core kernel |
| 03:28.54 | mtheath | Exactly |
| 03:29.08 | mtheath | Mach is little more than a primitive IPC system and basic memory slab allocation |
| 03:29.16 | *** join/#utah Lakshmi (n=chatzill@adsl-69-109-165-202.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 03:29.35 | mtheath | All the magic happens in the Hurd |
| 03:31.15 | mtheath | bmidgley, Because most of what you conventionally recognize as being "kernel stuff' resides in Userland, you do away with this stupid security model I talked about aboev |
| 03:31.58 | *** part/#utah sinuhe (n=sinuhe@72.16.250.178) |
| 03:32.00 | mtheath | You get true privellege control over everything on your system, instead of only things in conventional userland like you do on a Linux system |
| 03:32.59 | mtheath | bmidgley, Are you familiar with the translator concept? |
| 03:33.09 | bmidgley | not sure |
| 03:34.22 | mtheath | They have a cool filesystem concept called translators |
| 03:34.48 | bmidgley | isn't it sorta like linux userspace fs |
| 03:35.00 | mtheath | heh, Kinda |
| 03:35.00 | bmidgley | maybe not as hackish |
| 03:37.02 | mtheath | bmidgley, Hurd translators allow you to make a program that handles all the filesystem calls for a given directory or file |
| 03:37.36 | bmidgley | yeah i remember the ftp translator example |
| 03:38.01 | bmidgley | back in the day when people knew what ftp was |
| 03:38.04 | mtheath | They handle everything from conventional filesystems (/ is the /hurd/ext2fs.static translator applied to /) to things you would't expect |
| 03:38.38 | mtheath | Network devices (/dev/eth0, etc) are translators on the /dev/eth0 file |
| 03:39.36 | mtheath | bmidgley, You can do everything you can with Linux modules with translators |
| 03:39.52 | bmidgley | no need for /proc then |
| 03:40.29 | mtheath | Hurd used to (I belive its not working well at the moment) have a /proc filesystem, but it was just for compatability purposes |
| 03:40.54 | mtheath | Unfortunately you have to do lots of stupid unnecessary things for compatabilities sake |
| 03:41.08 | mtheath | GNU doesn't have a /usr filesystem, but keeps a /usr -> / symlink for compatabilities sake |
| 03:41.54 | bmidgley | gah /usr is such a mess |
| 03:42.04 | mtheath | I agree |
| 03:42.26 | mtheath | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:42.39 | mtheath | Its used in stupid ways now |
| 03:43.04 | mtheath | bmidgley, Have you heard of GNU Stow? |
| 03:43.08 | bmidgley | n |
| 03:43.17 | mtheath | It's a simple Perl based package management system |
| 03:43.46 | mtheath | You install a package with an install path of something like /stow/packagename |
| 03:44.01 | mtheath | invoke stow, and it setups symlinks to make it look like packagename is in / or wherever you want |
| 03:44.43 | mtheath | As (part of ) the official package management system of GNU, they were working on a StowFS translator for the Hurd |
| 03:45.11 | mtheath | your /stow/ would have the stowFS translator attached |
| 03:45.31 | bmidgley | is there much academic interest in hurd? seems like they should play that angle |
| 03:45.58 | mtheath | So changes would automatically get sync'd to / without having some nasty perl scirpt |
| 03:46.06 | mtheath | bmidgley, Unfortunately, not really |
| 03:46.13 | mtheath | I don't know why it doesn't have more support |
| 03:46.24 | mtheath | I guess because Linux works ok right this second |
| 03:46.45 | mtheath | So people would rather use / develop for that, instead of working on a currently somewhat broken but (I think) higher potential system |
| 03:48.13 | bmidgley | linux doesn't have great potential for experimenting with os architecture |
| 03:48.33 | mtheath | Hurd would definitely be the platform of choice for several of my commercial ideas / ventures, if it was only a little more stable / complete ( |
| 03:48.47 | bmidgley | if you are experimenting at some other layer then often linux is good enough |
| 03:49.39 | mtheath | Deisgn like the Hurd just seems to embrace and welcome new ideas...making it easy to integrate.. |
| 03:49.51 | mtheath | Without having to delve in nasty complex kernel code |
| 03:53.55 | mtheath | bmidgley, heh, You haven't talked to me in here before, and I hope you're not confusing me with someone else (your question about a UTOSC presentation was a little surprising)... |
| 03:54.26 | mtheath | I think there is a much more technically adept "Michael Heath" who is somewhat active in some CS related areas in Utah.. |
| 03:54.36 | mtheath | YOu'd be surprised how common your own name is.. |
| 03:54.54 | bmidgley | heh there was a college ball player with my name |
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| 04:05.21 | mtheath | sargun_screen, Hope I answered your MythTV questions... |
| 04:05.32 | mtheath | You _can_ still use the Zap2It stuff for a while still |
| 04:05.45 | mtheath | and I'm sure they'll have stuff in place by the time they discontinue it |
| 04:31.30 | sargun_screen | user.cpp:10: error: redefinition of `class User' |
| 04:31.30 | sargun_screen | user.cpp:10: error: previous definition of `class User' |
| 04:31.34 | sargun_screen | any ideas? |
| 04:35.24 | mtheath | Whats unclear about that? |
| 04:35.27 | mtheath | it's already defined. |
| 04:46.05 | bmidgley | sargun_screen: did you accidentally #include "file.c" |
| 04:46.10 | bmidgley | instead of "file.h" |
| 04:47.00 | bmidgley | or rather #include "user.cpp" |
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| 05:19.43 | sontek | zerdith_: ping! |
| 06:03.16 | sontek | rsimpkins: ping |
| 06:22.53 | mtheath | Hey, just wanted to say something to everyone I've apparently upset.. |
| 06:23.02 | mtheath | I'm going to work hard to stay on topic from now on |
| 06:23.21 | mtheath | If I piss you off or upset you, let me know and I'll fix it / shut up for a bit. |
| 06:23.56 | mtheath | I won't say a word about my military service, but please help me by not taunting me with derogatory comments related to my service in the military. |
| 06:24.02 | mtheath | That's all I'm going to say.. |
| 06:25.13 | findlay | you know you can't dangle something like that in front of me without me failing to resist to parody or metaphor it |
| 06:26.37 | findlay | mtheath: your derogotory service to #utah taunts me to fix it |
| 06:26.42 | findlay | there, I've done it :-) |
| 06:27.08 | mtheath | I don't feel particularly taunted |
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| 06:27.22 | findlay | oh well. I tried. |
| 06:27.25 | chadbryant | so...thoughts on Dell using Ubuntu? |
| 06:27.40 | mtheath | chadbryant, Fringe interest |
| 06:27.41 | herlo | chadbryant: good for dell |
| 06:27.55 | mtheath | No one who doesn't already run Ubuntu/Linux will buy it. |
| 06:28.09 | findlay | mtheath: I would buy one of their laptops |
| 06:28.22 | mtheath | Well, yeah |
| 06:28.29 | findlay | the microsoft-taxless b0xen are getting ever cheaper |
| 06:28.30 | chadbryant | I'm of the opinion that the more vendors offer OS alternatives, the more educated the computer-buying public will become |
| 06:28.32 | mtheath | Its a good service realted to hardware compatability for existing Linux users |
| 06:28.50 | mtheath | But its not the "more people will adopt linux" thing many make it out to be |
| 06:29.09 | findlay | I'll pay $100 more for a laptop sans-vista |
| 06:29.09 | mtheath | chadbryant, Theres a PC shop here in Ogden that sells (or at least sold) PCs preloaded with Linspire. |
| 06:29.31 | mtheath | It made Linux seem worse, what they did |
| 06:29.42 | mtheath | They marketed XP as an 'upgrade' from it |
| 06:29.50 | mtheath | And did other bad things like that |
| 06:29.53 | chadbryant | that's poor marketing |
| 06:30.08 | mtheath | Yeah, I know, but its a major chain |
| 06:30.24 | mtheath | My point is that more Linux presence isn't necessarily a good thing |
| 06:30.30 | mtheath | It takes the right marketing and the right distro |
| 06:30.51 | mtheath | I've also heard some reports that Dell kind of hides their Linux PCs |
| 06:30.58 | chadbryant | I don't think I would ever buy a machine from them, but I wonder if a vendor like PC Laptops would sell a no-OS system |
| 06:31.06 | mtheath | Its hard to find on their website; not something a casual Windows shopper would stumble on |
| 06:31.20 | mtheath | chadbryant, Don't go to PC Laptops :( |
| 06:31.33 | mtheath | My favorite vendor in Utah is still Superior PC systems |
| 06:31.36 | mtheath | erm |
| 06:31.46 | mtheath | Superior Computers* (their website is superiorpcsystems.com) |
| 06:31.57 | chadbryant | my first PC was from the Robotech shop on 7200 South |
| 06:31.58 | mtheath | Outstanding warranty |
| 06:32.02 | mtheath | And price matching |
| 06:32.10 | mtheath | 4 year parts, lifetime labor on all new computers |
| 06:32.14 | mtheath | With price matching |
| 06:32.25 | chadbryant | my second PC was from the old Micron showroom that was a block away |
| 06:32.36 | mtheath | They don't support Linux, but they don't take the "you screwed up your computer by installed Linux" approach many places do |
| 06:32.55 | mtheath | And its a GOOD 4 year parts warranty. Take it in, they don't hassle you about what/how/why...a parts broken, they fix it. |
| 06:33.21 | mtheath | chadbryant, How old were those PCs? |
| 06:33.41 | chadbryant | the Robotech box was a 486-DX100 |
| 06:33.54 | chadbryant | the Micron box was a P166 |
| 06:34.02 | mtheath | Kinda sad, I'm much younger and I got you really beat on first computer |
| 06:34.11 | chadbryant | no, you don't |
| 06:34.37 | mtheath | My first was an 8080+8086 system |
| 06:34.37 | mtheath | Bad thing about having an EE major for a dad...he won't let old electronics die |
| 06:34.50 | mtheath | Held on to that for 14 years |
| 06:35.08 | Supaplex | chadbryant: me to :) or maybe it was the ti 99-4a. I had both. |
| 06:35.30 | mtheath | Oldest computer I've used was a Motorola 6800 based system |
| 06:35.41 | chadbryant | 6800? |
| 06:35.44 | chadbryant | or 68000? |
| 06:35.50 | mtheath | 6800 |
| 06:35.55 | sontek | I got my first computer for Christmas |
| 06:35.57 | Tene | Hmm... I think I'm really liking sup. |
| 06:36.00 | sontek | amd64 3500+ |
| 06:36.26 | mtheath | chadbryant, It's just a test board though. |
| 06:37.07 | mtheath | Two boards...keypad for entering a machine instruction set, LED display.....Tape drive I/O connection.. |
| 06:38.37 | chadbryant | I would like to find an original iMac |
| 06:38.44 | mtheath | I don't see Dell's Linux computers as anymore than an attempt to winover Linux users to Dell computers.. |
| 06:38.51 | chadbryant | my sons have an eMac loaded with Edubuntu |
| 06:39.25 | mtheath | Old Macs dont work too well with Linux. |
| 06:39.48 | mtheath | I had an older Mac....I can't tell you the name or model, don't remember at all, but it was abotu OS 8 era.. |
| 06:40.15 | mtheath | It's firmware/boot ROM doesn't work well with Linux |
| 06:40.44 | chadbryant | any Mac prior to a G4 is pretty much an antique |
| 06:40.47 | mtheath | And there was apparently no way to get it to boot Linux directly...you had to install some addon for Mac OS taht caused Mac OS to halt and switch to Linux |
| 06:41.18 | mtheath | chadbryant, It didn't seem that old. Maybe that was because I was used to cheap computers |
| 06:41.30 | mtheath | I used to sort of collect all the free/cheap computers I could get my hands on when I was younger |
| 06:41.45 | mtheath | I had a cluster of 10 diskless, network booting Pentium 1 machines at one time :P |
| 06:42.00 | chadbryant | I used to have a P60 box |
| 06:42.21 | chadbryant | I gave it to my uncle to use for payroll |
| 06:42.26 | mtheath | Heh |
| 06:42.34 | mtheath | That cluster was cool, but entirely worthless. |
| 06:42.54 | chadbryant | that cluster would be a godsend to an inner-city school |
| 06:43.06 | mtheath | Sad that it took 10 computers to not even come close to matching what my one desktop can do now |
| 06:43.15 | mtheath | chadbryant, They wouldn't know what to do with it. |
| 06:43.29 | mtheath | Computer donations to schools that don't know what to do with it are worthles |
| 06:43.54 | chadbryant | if it were set up properly, it would work just fine |
| 06:44.01 | mtheath | Like when Weber kept trying to pawn off free old Sun workstations to the local highschools whenever they sponsered a highschool CS event/competition |
| 06:44.31 | mtheath | Theres probably a Sun sitting in several highschools in Weber County covered with dust right now :P |
| 06:45.03 | mtheath | chadbryant, what would you do with a cluster in an inner city school, though? |
| 06:45.15 | mtheath | They don't have decent CS classes, they can't learn how to program it. |
| 06:45.25 | chadbryant | terminals for internet access |
| 06:45.47 | mtheath | Oh, you're refering to just the computers in general, not the cluster setup |
| 06:45.51 | mtheath | Fair enough :) |
| 06:46.40 | chadbryant | have one or two modern computers to use as servers, network the older systems |
| 06:47.23 | chadbryant | no Windows license to worry about, no need to really worry about kids screwing up OS installs |
| 06:48.21 | mtheath | I think the biggest problem they run into in schools like that is destruction and vandalism, though |
| 06:48.36 | mtheath | If just getting computers was all they needed, theres lots of federal grants and programs for that |
| 06:48.53 | mtheath | I've long thought that Linux would be very effective in our schools, though |
| 06:48.57 | chadbryant | that doesn't mean that those children couldn't benefit from hardware |
| 06:49.10 | mtheath | STupidly, schools still cling to the main point of their CS programs being some worthless classes that orient you to Microsoft Office |
| 06:49.30 | mtheath | And while Microsoft Office is a requirement for the curiculum, Linux has no chance. |
| 06:49.59 | Tene | and how did it get that way, mtheath? |
| 06:50.21 | mtheath | Tene, What do you mean? |
| 06:50.56 | Tene | How did MS Office get to be a requirement? |
| 06:51.35 | mtheath | Because schools developed their worthless Office introduction classes. The classes teach nothing, and are a waste of teacher and student time, but some state education administrator thought they sounded like a good idea |
| 06:51.48 | mtheath | They introduce word processing and tasks like that in elementary school now. |
| 06:53.02 | mtheath | Wasn't there some kind of group / initiative in Utah to encourage Open Source software in schools? |
| 06:54.40 | mtheath | Have a good night, everyone. I'm heading to bed. |
| 06:57.12 | Tene | seeya |
| 07:01.51 | findlay | ~sup Tene |
| 07:02.00 | Tene | ~sup findlay |
| 07:02.21 | findlay | ~gmail Tene |
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| 15:03.21 | elg | -lart emcnabb |
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| 15:23.46 | bonez39 | how could I take this 'firstname lastname firstname@do.main' and turn it into (format it correctly) thus " 'firstname lastname' <firstname@do.main> " minus the " " double quotes? |
| 15:27.14 | jsmith | bonez39: With sed and a regular expression? |
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| 15:40.43 | sjansen | sed++ |
| 15:41.18 | harleypig | http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=feb_1184910841 |
| 15:41.20 | brac | [LiveLeak.com - Craziest Truck I've Ever Seen] |
| 15:49.34 | rsimpkins | sontek: pong |
| 15:49.53 | rsimpkins | mrpull: That KVM worked like a charm, thanks again! |
| 15:50.48 | sontek | rsimpkins: accept my linked in for plug =) |
| 15:51.12 | rsimpkins | sontek: roger, just a sec |
| 15:51.39 | sontek | thanks =) |
| 15:52.45 | rsimpkins | Done |
| 15:54.38 | emcnabb | sjansen-- |
| 15:55.27 | sjansen | emcnabb: Why do you hate me? |
| 15:57.27 | unum | let me count the ways |
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| 15:57.52 | Supaplex | so 0? |
| 15:57.55 | Supaplex | ;) |
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| 16:03.47 | Supaplex | I will not moo! |
| 16:04.34 | sjansen | meow! |
| 16:05.25 | Supaplex | no! |
| 16:08.20 | fozzmoo | I heard something on the radio this morning that made me think of old mheath |
| 16:08.49 | levi | What was that? |
| 16:08.51 | fozzmoo | This guy sitting in for Glenn Beck was talking about "kids these days" don't appreciate anything... |
| 16:09.04 | fozzmoo | They don't stop to smell the roses.. probably don't know a rose from a daisy. |
| 16:09.26 | fozzmoo | Then he said something like, "They crave negative attention from saying things like, 'I had a bad day today.'" |
| 16:10.09 | fozzmoo | A little flashlight bulb went off in my head. |
| 16:10.19 | fozzmoo | Happy Friday everyone! |
| 16:10.35 | fozzmoo | s/off/on/ |
| 16:10.41 | rsimpkins | Seems like a lot of those issues can find their root cause with the parents. |
| 16:10.47 | sjansen | ~smell fozzmoo |
| 16:11.03 | fozzmoo | sjansen: Nice try, dude. |
| 16:11.29 | Tene | http://www.cafepress.com/logfest.152419133 |
| 16:11.35 | sjansen | Dude! fozzmoo's gettin' a Dell! |
| 16:11.55 | fozzmoo | heh |
| 16:12.06 | sontek | Is it going to have ubuntu on it?! |
| 16:12.15 | fozzmoo | Tene: I don't know what you're trying to push on us but that's messed up, man. |
| 16:14.15 | fozzmoo | So, based on the spam I'm seeing on my XMission account, our society is now obsessed with the volume of ejaculation. |
| 16:14.41 | Tene | fozz: "If you can read this, you need to get laid" in lojban. |
| 16:15.03 | fozzmoo | Tene: Heh heh. Says volumes. :) |
| 16:15.20 | levi | Tene: Heh. |
| 16:15.40 | levi | I don't imagine you'd get many people who actually could read it, though. |
| 16:16.01 | Tene | Nope, not likely. |
| 16:16.32 | fozzmoo | A lot of people would look at a shirt like that and say, "Dude... Uh... you need to get laid." |
| 16:16.41 | fozzmoo | ;-) |
| 16:16.45 | Tene | Heh. |
| 16:17.18 | unum | you could do that in klingon as well |
| 16:17.41 | fozzmoo | unum: If you add "with honor" to the end of the phrase. :) |
| 16:18.10 | fozzmoo | It's like adding "in bed" to the end of your fortune cookie fortune. |
| 16:18.42 | fozzmoo | Convert anything to Klingon: Append "with honor" |
| 16:19.12 | Tene | Or perhaps "without honor" |
| 16:19.13 | fozzmoo | Would you like a Coke... with honor? |
| 16:19.26 | Tene | If you're looking to start a fight. |
| 16:19.37 | fozzmoo | Maybe "with or without honor" |
| 16:20.24 | Tene | I've actually been subjected to cross-lingual lojban/klingon jokes before. It's probably good that I can't remember them. |
| 16:22.06 | levi | Yes, that's a good thing. |
| 16:22.18 | fozzmoo | Tene: Have I mentioned how much the Io office's Net connection sucks? |
| 16:22.26 | Tene | You have. |
| 16:22.30 | fozzmoo | ok |
| 16:22.51 | beandog | anyone want to go see Star Trek II: Wrath of Khan tonight? |
| 16:22.56 | beandog | Playing at midnight at Tower theater in SLC |
| 16:22.59 | fozzmoo | wow. |
| 16:23.05 | fozzmoo | Is it the director's cut? |
| 16:23.10 | beandog | http://saltlakefilmsociety.org/ |
| 16:23.13 | beandog | I dont think so |
| 16:23.39 | beandog | 876 East 900 South |
| 16:24.11 | fozzmoo | I have that on DVD. It's cool. |
| 16:24.34 | Tene | fozz: are you ever going to tell me when I should deliver this DVD to you? |
| 16:24.57 | fozzmoo | Tene: Could you leave it on my desk at the Io office? |
| 16:25.32 | fozzmoo | I can't guarantee it won't melt in the heat. :) |
| 16:25.38 | Tene | 'kay |
| 16:25.59 | levi | Ooh, this year's ICFP is on! |
| 16:26.24 | rsimpkins | Tene: I'm a dork. I don't get it. |
| 16:26.25 | Tene | http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSL1919223520070719 |
| 16:26.32 | Tene | rsimpkins: don't get what? |
| 16:26.39 | rsimpkins | Tene: The shirt. |
| 16:27.01 | fozzmoo | rsimpkins: lojban is a... created language. |
| 16:27.22 | fozzmoo | Essentially it's a phrase written in a language that only a handful of eccentric geeks would understand. |
| 16:27.37 | rsimpkins | I see. I guess I'm not quite that eccentric. :) |
| 16:27.44 | Tene | rsimpkins: it came from this image: http://perpetuum-immobile.de/gletunitcu.png which originally just said "If you can read this, you need to get laid" in 'leet' |
| 16:28.08 | fozzmoo | wow. She's hot. |
| 16:28.26 | rsimpkins | fozzmoo: Probably some geeks sister. |
| 16:28.33 | fozzmoo | So's the guy on the calendar behind her. :) |
| 16:29.22 | Tene | http://media1.yourdailymedia.com/images/WfvjHTFW.jpg |
| 16:29.45 | klys | wow I wanna lear how to read that |
| 16:29.50 | klys | n |
| 16:29.51 | Tene | That image has been floating around on the net for a long time. |
| 16:30.32 | rsimpkins | Never seen it before. |
| 16:30.59 | levi | http://www.icfpcontest.org/ |
| 16:31.01 | brac | [ICFP Programming Contest 2007] |
| 16:31.32 | klys | is the first one sort of is swedish? |
| 16:31.35 | klys | n |
| 16:32.11 | rsimpkins | Does anyone in here run HP gear? I'm looking for anyone using the DL320s. |
| 16:32.48 | decriptor1 | I'm running HP stuff but not that version |
| 16:32.53 | decriptor1 | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:33.26 | rsimpkins | There has got to be someone on freenode... I wonder if they'll send a wallop. ;) |
| 16:33.42 | decriptor1 | I've only got DL385 and DL585 |
| 16:33.53 | rsimpkins | Do you like the 585? |
| 16:34.02 | decriptor1 | they are fast, but expensive |
| 16:34.15 | fozzmoo | Those two usually go hand in hand. |
| 16:34.21 | decriptor1 | true |
| 16:34.21 | rsimpkins | decriptor1: Where do you work? |
| 16:34.24 | decriptor1 | Novell |
| 16:34.29 | rsimpkins | Ahh. |
| 16:34.33 | decriptor1 | they are just test machines |
| 16:35.09 | decriptor1 | we used to have 10 DL 585 but had to give some up :( |
| 16:35.17 | decriptor1 | we had one up to 32 gigs of RAM |
| 16:35.23 | fozzmoo | I love the blurb about "Sicko" on the SL Film Society page... "The eagerly anticipated new documentary by Academy Award winning filmmaker Michael Moore. Prepare to be very, very angry." |
| 16:35.44 | decriptor1 | with that you can get many domUs |
| 16:35.57 | fozzmoo | I had the impression this one was probably the least anticipated of his films. |
| 16:36.03 | beandog | sick was good |
| 16:36.07 | beandog | not as hard-hitting as I thought it'd be. |
| 16:36.57 | fozzmoo | I haven't seen it... but the statistics he's been throwing around on the talk shows is severely flawed. |
| 16:37.03 | decriptor1 | rsimpkins what are you looking for |
| 16:37.23 | rsimpkins | decriptor1: Someone with a DL320s configured with a 9TB array running Linux. ;) |
| 16:37.32 | fozzmoo | rsimpkins: Oh! Why didn't you say so?! |
| 16:37.35 | fozzmoo | heh heh. |
| 16:37.49 | decriptor1 | the 9TB is what I'm missing then I know someone I think that has the 320s |
| 16:37.51 | rsimpkins | I've got a performance issue I need a second party to confirm. |
| 16:38.03 | decriptor1 | oh |
| 16:38.17 | fozzmoo | rsimpkins: What is the physical hardware underneath that 9TB array? |
| 16:38.25 | rsimpkins | So, it needs to be a lab 320s, or not yet in production. |
| 16:38.42 | decriptor1 | don't know that I can help on that one |
| 16:38.48 | rsimpkins | fozzmoo: Nothin' special. They are just big dumb gigantic arrays of disks. |
| 16:38.53 | decriptor1 | the last company that I worked for used tons of HPs |
| 16:38.55 | fozzmoo | how many? |
| 16:39.05 | fozzmoo | and how big are the individual disks? |
| 16:39.05 | rsimpkins | fozzmoo: 12 up front, 2 in the back. |
| 16:39.11 | rsimpkins | fozzmoo: It's really cool gear. |
| 16:39.18 | rsimpkins | fozzmoo: 750GB each |
| 16:39.21 | fozzmoo | is it connected to the server(s) via fibre or what? |
| 16:39.28 | rsimpkins | fozzmoo: They are sata. |
| 16:39.35 | decriptor1 | I didn't something like that but with only 1TB |
| 16:39.39 | rsimpkins | This is a low cost data wearhouse platform. |
| 16:39.58 | fozzmoo | I've got a client with a cluster of Samba servers- 2TB in each. |
| 16:40.11 | decriptor1 | whats your setup configuration layout |
| 16:40.19 | fozzmoo | 5 500G SATA drives. |
| 16:40.22 | rsimpkins | Well, let me just explain the issue.... |
| 16:40.38 | fozzmoo | What kind of RAID controller in those, rsimpkins? |
| 16:40.44 | rsimpkins | RAID 5, I get 60MB/s write. RAID 6, I get 15MB/s write! |
| 16:40.54 | rsimpkins | Smart Array P400 |
| 16:41.03 | fozzmoo | How many ports? |
| 16:41.10 | rsimpkins | I'm not sure actually. |
| 16:41.18 | rsimpkins | I think it's a driver issue. |
| 16:41.28 | decriptor1 | what brand fibre card |
| 16:41.29 | rsimpkins | Either that, or the card just really is lame. |
| 16:41.31 | decriptor1 | emulex? |
| 16:41.48 | rsimpkins | decriptor1: These are sata disks on a sata controller. |
| 16:42.21 | decriptor1 | I'm thinking of a different smart array then |
| 16:42.24 | rsimpkins | There shouldn't be THAT much of a difference between RAID 5 and 5. |
| 16:42.28 | rsimpkins | *6 |
| 16:42.41 | fozzmoo | rsimpkins: You're right... unless 6 is slanted more toward read performance. |
| 16:42.56 | rsimpkins | Still, I wouldn't expect it to be that large. |
| 16:43.09 | rsimpkins | Maybe 60 vs. 40, but not 60 vs. 15. |
| 16:43.32 | fozzmoo | yeah. I agree. |
| 16:43.48 | rsimpkins | herlo: Well, I think this is a vendor specific thing. |
| 16:43.58 | rsimpkins | raid 6 is good if you have >2TB arrays |
| 16:43.59 | herlo | yeah, looks like it from what I've been reading |
| 16:44.04 | herlo | rsimpkins: I will |
| 16:44.06 | fozzmoo | yeah- because of the rebuild times. |
| 16:44.55 | herlo | rsimpkins: I'm looking for a 8port 3ware card to put into my PC at home. I plan on using 500GB drives and should be able to build out to 2.5-3TB or so when done |
| 16:45.13 | rsimpkins | Cool. |
| 16:45.13 | herlo | depending on how I setup the spare |
| 16:45.15 | fozzmoo | I've heard mixed reviews of 3Ware. |
| 16:45.24 | fozzmoo | We use LSI 8-ports. |
| 16:45.24 | rsimpkins | We have a lot of 3ware. |
| 16:45.34 | herlo | rsimpkins: yeah, I've set up a broadcom hardware raid previously, but the drivers suck |
| 16:45.35 | fozzmoo | Oh wait. most of the mixed reviews were from rsimpkins! |
| 16:45.43 | fozzmoo | :) |
| 16:45.46 | rsimpkins | fozzmoo: :) |
| 16:45.58 | decriptor1 | raid 6 was a compaq thing until hp bought them |
| 16:46.00 | herlo | the card first would put the drives in park, some sort of bug. And they don't have any updates that work with stuff later than FC4 |
| 16:46.08 | rsimpkins | We seem to have a lot of issues with the 3ware 9500 series cards. |
| 16:46.09 | herlo | fozzmoo: haha |
| 16:46.29 | rsimpkins | decriptor1: Right |
| 16:46.31 | herlo | rsimpkins: thanks for the heads up. And particular recommendations for a card for a pc? |
| 16:46.38 | fozzmoo | LSI! |
| 16:46.45 | rsimpkins | herlo: I honestly think the 3ware would be okay in a home box. |
| 16:46.53 | rsimpkins | herlo: And LSI is good too. |
| 16:47.10 | herlo | rsimpkins: price differences? site recommendations? |
| 16:47.11 | rsimpkins | I just wouldn't want 820 of them in production, like we've got. |
| 16:47.18 | fozzmoo | MegaRAID 300-8X |
| 16:47.34 | fozzmoo | It's a PCI-X card, which can be a problem if you're not using a server board. |
| 16:47.55 | rsimpkins | fozzmoo: I bet it screams. What kinda performance you get out of it? |
| 16:47.55 | fozzmoo | I *think* they have a PCIe version. Can't remember. |
| 16:48.07 | herlo | fozzmoo: yeah, I think I've got one pci express slot. Is that the same? |
| 16:48.41 | fozzmoo | I haven't benchmarked it, but 8Fish uses it and they're moving multi-GB video files around a gigabit network. |
| 16:48.45 | fozzmoo | Nothing can be fast enough for them. |
| 16:48.51 | herlo | :) |
| 16:49.06 | fozzmoo | PCIe == PCI express. |
| 16:49.12 | herlo | fozzmoo: okay |
| 16:49.13 | rsimpkins | fozzmoo: 3ware san with 4GB FC. ;) |
| 16:49.41 | decriptor1 | infiniband :) |
| 16:49.43 | rsimpkins | fozzmoo: They just need like, $750k or so. |
| 16:49.47 | fozzmoo | heh heh. |
| 16:49.55 | fozzmoo | They're going to be asking soon. |
| 16:50.00 | fozzmoo | Their array is 77% full. |
| 16:50.09 | fozzmoo | "Make it bigger... and faster." |
| 16:52.18 | decriptor1 | the MD1000s from HP look good for just adding mass storage |
| 16:53.04 | rsimpkins | fozzmoo: Buy them an Areca. |
| 16:53.50 | rsimpkins | fozzmoo: http://tweakers.net/reviews/557/27 |
| 16:53.53 | fozzmoo | Areca is a genus of about 50 species of single-stemmed palms in the family Arecaceae, found in humid tropical forests from Malaysia to the Solomon Islands. |
| 16:53.55 | fozzmoo | ;-) |
| 16:53.58 | rsimpkins | Little dataed |
| 16:53.59 | decriptor1 | its really expensive, but iBrix looks cool |
| 16:54.41 | fozzmoo | Yeah. they don't show the LSI 300s. Only the 150s. |
| 16:55.12 | rsimpkins | Look at the features: http://www.areca.com.tw/products/pcietosas1680series.htm |
| 16:55.16 | brac | [Areca Technology Corporation] |
| 16:55.18 | rsimpkins | Intel 800 MHz IOP348 I/O processor with SAS controller |
| 16:55.31 | rsimpkins | up to 2GB cache |
| 16:56.17 | rsimpkins | Online RAID level/stripe size migration |
| 16:56.20 | *** join/#utah TimRiker (n=timr@216.49.181.128) |
| 16:56.20 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 16:59.57 | rsimpkins | When your raid card has a fan on it - that should tell you something. :) |
| 17:00.21 | fozzmoo | I want a water-cooled RAID card. :) |
| 17:00.42 | herlo | fozzmoo: nice |
| 17:01.37 | fozzmoo | rsimpkins: What are some of the differences between SAS and SATA? |
| 17:01.48 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@dhcp27.cs.nmsu.edu) |
| 17:01.49 | rsimpkins | They need to work on their Engrish: 'organizatoin' |
| 17:02.22 | rsimpkins | fozzmoo: Small is good. :) |
| 17:02.31 | rsimpkins | fozzmoo: I'm no expert really. |
| 17:03.29 | rsimpkins | fozzmoo: This is what your client needs: http://www.procase.nl/details.asp?ID=600&referrer=products.asp&artgroup=Rackmount%20cases%20IPC |
| 17:03.31 | fozzmoo | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_Attached_SCSI |
| 17:03.33 | brac | [Welcome to the Procase website!] |
| 17:03.49 | rsimpkins | fozzmoo: That, with the ARC-1170 (that'll suppor the whole shelf) |
| 17:03.49 | fozzmoo | Welcome... to zombo.com |
| 17:04.02 | fozzmoo | Whew. Nice. |
| 17:04.26 | fozzmoo | I want to see a picture of the backside! |
| 17:04.37 | fozzmoo | (of the array chassis, you dorks!) |
| 17:05.22 | rsimpkins | fozzmoo: You could support A LOT of storage on the cheap with a system like that. |
| 17:05.30 | fozzmoo | No kidding. |
| 17:06.03 | fozzmoo | I think a company like 8Fish needs something better than a gigabit LAN. |
| 17:06.06 | fozzmoo | Not sure what's best, tho. |
| 17:06.40 | fozzmoo | Currently, the cluster servers are connected to the LAN via bonded ethernet - 4 gigabit ports per server. |
| 17:17.27 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@216.31.27.110) |
| 17:18.19 | rsimpkins | newegg.com changed their homepage. |
| 17:18.25 | rsimpkins | I kinda liked the older one personally. |
| 17:18.32 | findlay | again? |
| 17:18.48 | fozzmoo | It's been a few weeks, but yeah. |
| 17:19.03 | fozzmoo | I always hate it when they change stuff.. but then the new stuff grows on me. :) |
| 17:20.29 | herlo | sounds normal if you ask me... |
| 17:21.37 | *** join/#utah fungus (n=olsonl@mailhub.sosstaffing.com) |
| 17:43.24 | mtheath | The biggest porblem I have with newegg's site is their navigation is somewhat broken on smaller displays |
| 17:43.36 | mtheath | Their "Computer Hardware" menu is bigger than my laptops screen |
| 17:43.46 | mtheath | And with a touchpad, it's impossible to scroll down and keep the menu open |
| 17:45.27 | emcnabb | mtheath: intriguing |
| 17:45.53 | Jayce^ | sounds like you need to upgrade, glad you're on their site, and they are helping you understand that |
| 17:46.02 | mtheath | Jayce^, haha. |
| 17:49.20 | tensai | ~seen redbeard1 |
| 17:49.22 | ibot | redbeard1 <n=jphall@166-70-208-25.ip.xmission.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #utah, 51d 21h 28m 51s ago, saying: '~lart sjansen '. |
| 17:49.28 | tensai | ~seen redbeard2 |
| 17:49.29 | ibot | redbeard2 <i=route@nat/redhat/x-720b95f6c9f5cfea> was last seen on IRC in channel #utah, 1d 1h 56m 39s ago, saying: 'nah'. |
| 17:49.40 | tensai | what? I missed him? |
| 17:49.58 | tensai | ~onjoin redbeard2 |
| 17:49.58 | ibot | onjoin for redbeard2 set by redbeard2 on Thu Jun 14 12:40:51 2007: If popular culture has taught us anything, it is that someday mankind must face and destroy the growing robot menace. |
| 17:50.10 | tensai | ~onjoin redbeard2 ping tensai |
| 17:50.10 | ibot | tensai: ok |
| 17:50.18 | tensai | ~onjoin redbeard2 redbeard2: ping tensai |
| 17:50.19 | ibot | tensai: ok |
| 18:05.06 | mtheath | http://oussik.com/guadec2007-gvfs.pdf |
| 18:05.13 | mtheath | Thatsan intresting presentation |
| 18:05.31 | mtheath | Does a good job of addressing a lot of the shortcomings in gnome-vfs, as well as outlining a new alternative implementation |
| 18:06.00 | mtheath | (alternativly at http://www.gnome.org/~alexl/presentations/guadec2007-gvfs.odp ) |
| 18:07.36 | fozzmoo | tensai: Why don't you just call him on the... telephone? |
| 18:08.02 | tensai | fozzmoo: explain to me of this "telephone" device |
| 18:08.06 | mtheath | fozzmoo, because thats not as cool and geeky as leaving an IRC onjoin message! |
| 18:08.08 | mtheath | Jeez. |
| 18:08.26 | levi | Jayce^: Hope your cabin doesn't get burned. That's a pretty scary situation. |
| 18:08.39 | Jayce^ | yeah... it's "natural" just not fun.. |
| 18:08.46 | Jayce^ | if it happens, it does :/ |
| 18:08.57 | levi | Is it insured? |
| 18:09.12 | Jayce^ | it has some, but not enough to rebuild.. too expensive |
| 18:09.20 | levi | Bummer. |
| 18:09.28 | mtheath | Jayce^, extend the insurance now. Just neglect to tell them the situation ;-) |
| 18:09.46 | Jayce^ | no, they know :) |
| 18:10.02 | Jayce^ | specialized insurance for forest service property cabins |
| 18:12.38 | fozzmoo | Jayce^: Forgive me, where's this cabin? |
| 18:12.51 | Jayce^ | Benchmark road, MT |
| 18:13.17 | Jayce^ | at the junction of the scapegoat and bob marshall wilderness areas, in the Lewis & clark NF |
| 18:13.29 | fozzmoo | Nice xkcd.com today. |
| 18:14.06 | Jayce^ | that site I linked to is quite handy though |
| 18:14.19 | Jayce^ | fozzmoo, follow the link and you can see it in the google map |
| 18:14.43 | fozzmoo | link? |
| 18:14.52 | Jayce^ | why, it's on my blog of course :) |
| 18:15.00 | Jayce^ | http://www.inciweb.org/incident/805/ |
| 18:15.24 | fozzmoo | oh! |
| 18:15.27 | Jayce^ | in the forest service map, the red is the fire, just to the SE of it is the end of a "road" we're just on that road |
| 18:16.03 | Jayce^ | inside the forest (green area) near that first 'campground' marker.. about a mile past that |
| 18:16.42 | fozzmoo | That's... whew. |
| 18:16.53 | Jayce^ | with the newer images, you can kinda see our cabin in the google earth images... but you really gotta know what you're looking for |
| 18:17.16 | fozzmoo | What was that Jack Ryan movie... where they take him into some bunker and they watch some raid on a terrorist camp from satellite in real time? |
| 18:17.28 | Jayce^ | clear and present danger |
| 18:17.30 | Jayce^ | right? |
| 18:17.33 | fozzmoo | ONe of tose. |
| 18:17.37 | fozzmoo | s/tose/those/ |
| 18:17.38 | Jayce^ | yeah, would be nice |
| 18:17.45 | herlo | Jayce^: you know that you can now make maps with your own spots right? So you could easily show us all... |
| 18:17.48 | *** join/#utah RasterScan (n=Null@204.128.230.1) |
| 18:17.57 | unum | and he picks out the woman on the video? |
| 18:18.19 | fozzmoo | herlo: Yeah- and he could give us the play by play as his treasured family retreat goes up in flames. |
| 18:18.28 | jsmith | fozzmoo: Patriot Games? |
| 18:18.37 | herlo | fozzmoo: not quite what I was implying, but.. yeah! |
| 18:18.58 | fozzmoo | I can't remember. I just remember that scene and how Harrison Ford overplayed how disgusted Ryan was. |
| 18:19.08 | unum | I didn't think it was supposed to be real time but I'm remembering the book |
| 18:19.23 | unum | I think it was an earlier one |
| 18:19.39 | fozzmoo | Patriot Games was the Irish thing, right? |
| 18:19.43 | unum | ya |
| 18:21.33 | unum | I think those are the only two with harrison ford |
| 18:21.38 | unum | clear and present danger is the drug one |
| 18:21.57 | fozzmoo | I liked Baldwin better. |
| 18:22.01 | findlay | me too |
| 18:22.15 | fozzmoo | I hurts me to say it. |
| 18:22.17 | fozzmoo | :) |
| 18:22.23 | findlay | Hunt for Red October is still the best one |
| 18:22.29 | findlay | but it's close |
| 18:23.03 | fozzmoo | I feel bad they never got around to making Red Storm Rising or any earlier novels into films. |
| 18:23.11 | fozzmoo | Maybe they'll make for good "period films" in a few years. |
| 18:25.19 | *** join/#utah Lakshmi (n=chatzill@adsl-69-109-171-162.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 18:28.49 | levi | Cool article on neural networks and their implementation in Erlang: http://www.trapexit.org/index.php/Erlang_and_Neural_Networks |
| 18:32.33 | mtheath | What is the 'correct' way to do tables in XHTML Strict? |
| 18:32.44 | mtheath | I mean, proper tables for data display, not abuse of tables for page layout |
| 18:33.11 | mtheath | *to do the equivelent of tables |
| 18:34.31 | findlay | mtheath: you don't exactly 'replace' tables, the ideal is to use CSS which is more contextual rather than structural |
| 18:34.58 | findlay | but if you're laying out tabular data and want to use tables, I don't see what the big deal |
| 18:35.01 | findlay | is |
| 18:37.04 | mtheath | I thought tables were deprecated though. |
| 18:38.05 | findlay | no, they're still around because they're the best for displaying tabular data |
| 18:38.17 | findlay | like a bunch of numbers or something |
| 18:38.44 | findlay | that's how I understand it |
| 18:39.01 | findlay | using tables for anything else is discouraged |
| 18:42.09 | beandog | meh |
| 18:42.16 | beandog | people who say tables are deprecated are living in fantasy. |
| 18:42.27 | beandog | If CSS really were a standard, then maybe, yes. |
| 18:43.20 | mtheath | Oh, your right. Just the formatting stuff was dropped in XHTML strict |
| 18:43.31 | mtheath | Or, at least, a lot of the formatting stuff |
| 18:52.53 | mtheath | Well, what would you say would be the "correct" way to format the data in a page like http://www.mtheath.net/seacadets/cadet.php ? |
| 18:54.34 | levi | That looks fine to me. |
| 18:56.03 | levi | You're using an unordered list for your unordered list and tables for your tabular data and headings for your section headings. You might want to put the sections in divs for display purposes. |
| 19:07.01 | Tene | I'd presonally use a <dl> for what you're using a table for |
| 19:07.26 | Tene | or at least change the <td>s in the first column to <th>s |
| 19:07.37 | Tene | I agree, though. looks fine. |
| 19:07.55 | findlay | Tene: do you use the <tbody> tag? |
| 19:08.06 | Tene | findlay: I probably have before. |
| 19:08.32 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@216.31.27.110) |
| 19:15.29 | decriptor1 | anyone done much with PAE |
| 19:19.29 | unum | I use it because it makes things easier when you're using javascript |
| 19:23.57 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@216.31.27.110) |
| 19:23.59 | tensai | Jayce^: if your grandma's cabin did burn down, which would be a shame, there would be at least one good result. you wouldn't be driving through and polluting Idaho Falls any more. :) |
| 19:24.43 | Jayce^ | tensai, nah, I still have two uncles up there... I'd just spend *more* time in IF instead of just passing through |
| 19:24.50 | tensai | nuts! |
| 19:26.02 | Supaplex | dez |
| 19:32.47 | *** join/#utah harleypig (n=IceChat7@94.239.sfcn.org) |
| 19:33.48 | Jayce^ | that's some pillsbury |
| 19:34.09 | harleypig | heh |
| 19:39.34 | findlay | ~onjoin findlay |
| 19:39.34 | ibot | onjoin for findlay set by brac on Thu Jul 12 19:13:33 2007: -chat about ~onjoin harleypig |
| 19:42.54 | rsimpkins | So a 16 way server is on an airplane headed my way. |
| 19:42.59 | rsimpkins | Now, what to do with it..... :) |
| 19:43.26 | herlo | rsimpkins: host PLUG! |
| 19:43.31 | fozzmoo | Of course! |
| 19:43.36 | herlo | and all of the rest of the groups too |
| 19:43.49 | rsimpkins | It is just a 90 day eval. |
| 19:43.49 | findlay | host bzflag! |
| 19:44.01 | rsimpkins | 64GB of RAM in it. |
| 19:44.06 | rsimpkins | http://h20341.www2.hp.com/integrity/cache/342074-0-0-225-121.html |
| 19:44.08 | brac | [HP Integrity rx7640 Server - specifications] |
| 19:44.10 | herlo | and let us all have an account to run huge processees with memory intensive components and tons of bandwidth, etc |
| 19:44.28 | findlay | and my jobs will beat up herlo's |
| 19:44.45 | herlo | findlay: your jobs could *never* beat up my jobs |
| 19:44.55 | findlay | sure |
| 19:44.55 | herlo | my jobs are bigger and badder than your jobs |
| 19:45.06 | herlo | findlay: I'm telling my jobs on you |
| 19:45.11 | findlay | my jobs could eat through 64 GiB like nothing |
| 19:45.31 | herlo | findlay: but with my bandwidth enabled through tc and yours not, it won't be getting any |
| 19:45.40 | herlo | :) |
| 19:46.49 | herlo | but lets everyone else pass as long as they'll cooperate, or they get the ban too! |
| 19:46.59 | findlay | I messed with it and then it wouldn't let me log in, not even locally |
| 19:47.05 | herlo | <<__ |
| 19:47.09 | herlo | __>> |
| 19:47.21 | findlay | so I had to rerun authconfig from a livecd |
| 19:47.32 | herlo | nope, not me ^_' |
| 19:47.41 | herlo | findlay: runlevel 1 |
| 19:48.03 | findlay | how do I get to single user mode if I can't log in locally as root? |
| 19:48.31 | unum | init=/bin/sh |
| 19:49.17 | findlay | is that a kernel parameter? |
| 19:49.29 | unum | yes |
| 19:50.36 | rsimpkins | It's actually an init argument. You can disable single user mode. |
| 19:51.00 | rsimpkins | At least, that is what I understand. |
| 19:52.37 | mtheath | Hey, anyone know if, in OpenOffice.org Base's Forms, if its possible to create a button or such that will use Form information to autofill fields in a OpenOffice writer doc? |
| 19:55.27 | herlo | rsimpkins: that's true |
| 19:55.41 | herlo | unum: that will make the init process be bash instead |
| 19:55.44 | herlo | er sh |
| 19:55.57 | herlo | unum: which cna be useful |
| 19:56.07 | unum | very useful |
| 19:56.32 | unum | you do set that as a "kernel option" in the bootloader |
| 19:57.06 | findlay | with doritos |
| 19:59.04 | jsmith | findlay: Uh... could you use Grub to boot isolinux, which would read El Torito files? |
| 19:59.55 | rsimpkins | We need a #utah cloak or something. |
| 20:00.12 | findlay | jsmith: yeah, but from what I understand you need another component to do it |
| 20:00.18 | jsmith | findlay: Oh? |
| 20:01.05 | findlay | and following the instructions here, http://gentoo-wiki.com/index.php?title=GRUB/Chainloaded_CD-ROM, I tried using some ancient boot loader from 2001 (which didn't work) |
| 20:01.23 | findlay | there may be a way to do it with isolinux, but I don't know how |
| 20:21.19 | *** join/#utah lost^alien (n=jared@c-67-177-42-19.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 20:31.06 | *** join/#utah sontek (n=sontek@unaffiliated/sontek) |
| 20:47.32 | mtheath | findlay, are you looking to boot Linux CD's? |
| 20:48.21 | findlay | yeah |
| 20:48.40 | findlay | I'm not really interested in booting anything else :) |
| 20:48.56 | mtheath | findlay, any way to get at least a really, really basic Linux install on the the hard disk? |
| 20:49.01 | findlay | well, I'll boot a BSD CD now and then |
| 20:49.03 | mtheath | Can you copy over a kernel + several files? |
| 20:49.19 | findlay | mtheath: I've already debootstrapped a full ubuntu system |
| 20:49.54 | mtheath | so you got Ubuntu on there? (Not sure what you mean by debootstrapped, exactly) |
| 20:50.19 | mtheath | You could use kexec to switch over to a LiveCD..... |
| 20:50.26 | findlay | kexec? |
| 20:50.29 | mtheath | mount the CD |
| 20:50.44 | mtheath | kexec -l /mount/cdrom/kernel -append="command-line options" |
| 20:51.01 | mtheath | findlay, Allows a running Linux system to switch over to another kernel. |
| 20:51.02 | findlay | debootstrap takes a clean partition and given a debian repo will bootstrap the debian distro of your choice |
| 20:51.18 | findlay | I guess that could work |
| 20:51.50 | findlay | actually you can deboostrap any old directory |
| 20:51.51 | jsmith | Set up a PXE server and network boot! |
| 20:51.58 | findlay | jsmith: no NIC :) |
| 20:52.20 | jsmith | What kind of lousy linux box has no NIC? |
| 20:52.36 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@216.31.27.110) |
| 20:52.39 | findlay | it's an old laptop |
| 20:52.48 | elg | i'll bet |
| 20:52.56 | findlay | so if you want to give me a decent one, I won't complain |
| 20:53.03 | mtheath | jsmith, it's a small cube sealed in a box of 20 foot solid concrete. |
| 20:53.07 | mtheath | IT as no I/O, and no ports |
| 20:53.13 | mtheath | The challenge: install linux |
| 20:53.18 | mtheath | ;-) |
| 20:54.01 | jsmith | mtheath: Can I use cosmic rays to set the bits one by one? Do I have control over the power supply? |
| 20:54.19 | mtheath | No. And No. |
| 20:55.26 | mtheath | Wow, you can do some cool things with OpenOffice.org Base and Forms. |
| 20:55.29 | mtheath | This will be convenient |
| 20:55.40 | mtheath | But I can't get checkboxes to behave properly...Hmm. |
| 20:57.04 | mtheath | Grrr |
| 20:57.14 | mtheath | ~lart people who reply to list digests in stupid ways |
| 20:57.14 | ibot | slaps a compatible dib on people who reply to list digests in stupid ways's head |
| 21:02.34 | findlay | http://www.culturedcode.com/css/reference.html |
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| 21:37.03 | mrpull | has anybody used amazon's S3? |
| 21:37.21 | herlo | mrpull: not I said the pig |
| 21:38.08 | mrpull | I was hoping to find a FUSE implementation for S3 but google is failing me |
| 21:39.21 | *** join/#utah fungus (n=olsonl@mailhub.sosstaffing.com) |
| 21:43.05 | jsmith | mrpull: I've used it a little bit. |
| 21:46.06 | mrpull | jsmith: what tools/languages are you using to interact with it? |
| 21:46.24 | jsmith | mrpull: Don't ask, don't tell :-) |
| 21:51.35 | Tene | mrpull: Perl has good S3 libs and a good Fuse module... |
| 21:51.54 | Tene | You could have an s3 fuse implementation in a couple of hours. |
| 21:52.54 | mrpull | jungledisk.com has a webdav -> S3 proxy |
| 21:53.01 | mrpull | that looks like a pretty good solution too |
| 21:53.11 | bonez39 | here's what I have [ "Scott S. Jones","scott@fyrenice.com" ] (minus the [] brackets ... here's what I need to end up with [ Scott S. Jones <scott@fyrenice.com> ] can this be done with a tricky perl script, or something else? ideas? |
| 21:54.25 | Tene | perl or sed... pretty simple. here's the regex: |
| 21:55.05 | Tene | s/"(.*)","(.*)"/$1 <$2>/ |
| 21:55.41 | Tene | you can either: |
| 21:55.51 | Tene | sed 's/"(.*)","(.*)"/$1 <$2>/' filename |
| 21:55.51 | Tene | or |
| 21:56.06 | Tene | perl -p -e 's/"(.*)","(.*)"/$1 <$2>/' filename |
| 21:57.01 | bonez39 | will sed or perl output filename.new or what will the new file be called? |
| 21:57.26 | Tene | those will just print to stdout. What behavior would you like? |
| 21:57.58 | bonez39 | want it to take my existing file 'jonesdir.csv' and produce a new text file...which will be formatted correctly... |
| 21:58.36 | Tene | perl -p -e 's/"(.*)","(.*)"/$1 <$2>/' jonesdir.csv > correctjonesdir.csv |
| 21:59.05 | bonez39 | thank you..now where do I go and read about all that...so I can not have to bug you next time? |
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| 21:59.09 | ibot | tickles tuple with a rose bush |
| 21:59.20 | jsmith | bonez39: regular-expressions.info is a good start |
| 21:59.43 | harleypig | Uh ... homegrown csv regexes always have unexpected problems ... Text::CSV_XS is a really good csv module. |
| 21:59.56 | bonez39 | jsmith: thanks a bunch... |
| 22:00.09 | jsmith | Glad to be able to help |
| 22:05.39 | mtheath | Anyone know of any decent Open Source alternatives to Dreamweaver? |
| 22:06.16 | Tene | bluefish, I'm told |
| 22:06.26 | unum | uuuuuuuuh |
| 22:06.41 | unum | as much as I like bluefish I don't know that they compare |
| 22:08.04 | Tene | You're right, I'm misremembering. |
| 22:08.45 | unum | ah |
| 22:08.46 | mtheath | Does NVU have decent support for scripting, though? |
| 22:08.53 | unum | ya that is more comparable |
| 22:09.13 | unum | I have some pages that were generated with nvu I'm supposed to be cleaning up |
| 22:09.24 | findlay | that's easy |
| 22:09.40 | findlay | tidy -ic dirty_pages/ > clean_pages/ |
| 22:09.48 | findlay | :) |
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| 22:13.43 | *** join/#utah tuple (n=fugalh@216.31.27.110) |
| 22:13.43 | ibot | tickles tuple with a rose bush |
| 22:16.05 | tuple | http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html/ref=amb_link_5151302_2/002-9233896-8909617?ie=UTF8&docId=1000108181&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-1&amp;pf_rd_r=0R697YG2YTFF3F74NA4Q&pf_rd_t=1401&pf_rd_p=298681401&pf_rd_i=1000071921 |
| 22:18.44 | tuple | utah is pretty harry |
| 22:25.37 | *** join/#utah Lakshmi_ (n=chatzill@adsl-69-109-167-115.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 22:26.58 | levi | I was in Falls Church not too long ago. |
| 22:27.05 | levi | It didn't seem conspicuously Harry. |
| 22:28.05 | mtheath | Their state list isn't per capita either |
| 22:28.25 | mtheath | Just number of books ordered from people there |
| 22:29.19 | mrpull | Vermont was the "Harry-est State" on a per capita basis |
| 22:35.07 | mtheath | Does anyone know of sort of a web-based version control system? |
| 22:35.31 | mtheath | A group I'm working with is currently using, as a document collaboration system, what is basically a web hosting file browser / upload tool |
| 22:35.54 | mtheath | Wanted to offer something open source and better |
| 22:36.08 | mtheath | Multiple user support, revision control, add notes/comments/explanations to files... |
| 22:37.01 | tuple | writeboard maybe |
| 22:37.24 | unum | trac+svn? |
| 22:37.58 | unum | oh wait you want it for text files not code |
| 22:38.05 | mtheath | tuple, no, no...It's just for uploading files of all different kinds |
| 22:38.12 | mtheath | They have some HTML, lots of .docs, presentations, etc. |
| 22:38.21 | mtheath | Its just kind of a dumping spot for lots of different materials |
| 22:38.31 | mtheath | I was looking for ways to keep it a bit more...organized. |
| 22:39.11 | unum | I'd still consider trac but I'm not sure it can do everything you need |
| 22:42.19 | mrpull | mtheath: have you looked at alfresco? |
| 22:43.12 | mtheath | mrpull: Yeah, but I don't want a big complex system |
| 22:43.19 | mtheath | I realy just need simple file management... |
| 22:51.52 | mrpull | you could probably homebrew one quickly with that newfound PHP knowledge. |
| 22:52.32 | mrpull | it's hard to get people to use a web app to upload/download docs when they are used to using a fileserver |
| 22:52.58 | mtheath | its not a fileserver, really |
| 22:53.08 | mtheath | It is a PHP app (or asp or something) at the moment |
| 22:53.40 | mtheath | Its like the frontends that web hosting companies like Geocities or such give you to upload/edit files |
| 22:54.47 | unum | you can write one using ajax!!! |
| 22:55.00 | unum | but then they would have to turn off some security features... |
| 22:55.23 | mtheath | mrpull: I'm confused about what you meant by newfound PHP knowledge....I've used PHP for years. O.o |
| 22:59.00 | mrpull | mrpull: joking about the new php in a nutshell book you were fawning over the other day |
| 22:59.07 | mrpull | quitting time! |
| 22:59.14 | unum | yes it is |
| 22:59.21 | unum | atleast pretty close |
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| 23:24.02 | levi_home | Aaaaargh! |
| 23:24.28 | levi_home | I had things all set up so my new refrigerator would be delivered on my moving day. |
| 23:24.47 | levi_home | Now they tell me the shipment came in late so they can't get it to me until Tuesday. |
| 23:25.21 | levi_home | I guess I'll have to get some ice and borrow a cooler or two. Bah. |
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