| 00:00.22 | beandog | public domain is the only real free license. |
| 00:00.23 | raventh1 | Yeah, it's only freedom if you don't kill other people or sexually assault other people |
| 00:00.24 | beandog | or non-license. |
| 00:00.39 | raventh1 | if you do those things you can't have freedom in america either |
| 00:02.00 | mheath | I dunno about you, but I'm perfectly OK with appliances that guard against data corruption and bad addons on the hardware level |
| 00:02.17 | raventh1 | sure, but I don't mind that they get bypassed |
| 00:02.32 | mheath | May not be the solution I need, but I believe I have a right to make and purchase products taht operate in that way. |
| 00:02.39 | raventh1 | you do |
| 00:02.42 | raventh1 | write your own code |
| 00:03.01 | raventh1 | most companies do |
| 00:03.09 | raventh1 | Linux and Widnows are not the only choices |
| 00:03.23 | raventh1 | i'm not fixing that spelling mistake. ;) |
| 00:03.23 | djeebs | mheath: if you create the product and attempt to prevent people from using it in unauthorized ways, and someone gets around it, would you be upset? |
| 00:04.22 | mheath | djeebs: Not particularly. It is very easy to bypass, actually. |
| 00:04.33 | mheath | I'll freely support modding. |
| 00:04.42 | mheath | But it is still, technically, a closed device with protection like that |
| 00:04.48 | mheath | Therefore, it violates teh GPLv3 |
| 00:04.53 | mheath | Therefore, I'm not allowed to run Linux on it |
| 00:05.05 | mheath | raventh1: Lets look at a bit of GNU.org, shall we? |
| 00:05.25 | mheath | "More precisely, it refers to four kinds of freeom, for the users of the software:" |
| 00:05.32 | mheath | "The freedom to run the program, for any purpose." |
| 00:05.48 | mheath | "The freedom to study how the program works, and adapt it to your neds. Access to the source code is a precondition for this." |
| 00:06.08 | mheath | "The freeom to redistribute copies so you can help your nieghbor." |
| 00:06.14 | mheath | "The freedom to improve the program, and release your improvements to the public, so that the whole community beenfits." |
| 00:06.29 | mheath | People have access to all the source code for it |
| 00:06.29 | beandog | Is there even anything released under gpl 3 |
| 00:06.40 | beandog | Even if its GPL2 theyd have to have the or later option. |
| 00:06.47 | beandog | and even then, you can pick GPL2 still. |
| 00:06.48 | beandog | So |
| 00:06.50 | mheath | Theres no rule that says "You have to be able to run it on the same hardware platform you made the improvements on" |
| 00:06.54 | mheath | Or |
| 00:07.22 | mheath | Freedom 0 says The FREEDOM TO RUN THE PROGRAM, FOR ANY PURPOSE. |
| 00:07.39 | mheath | You'd think that would include the ability to run it on a device that includes some hardware level safeguards, whatever those are. |
| 00:07.46 | mheath | I'd say that counds as "Any purpose" |
| 00:08.06 | mheath | *counts |
| 00:08.20 | mheath | beandog: some software is being relicensed GPLv3 or later |
| 00:08.29 | mheath | not to mention that lots of new projects are starting with GPLv3 |
| 00:08.38 | beandog | well the copyright on the old license is still going to stick |
| 00:08.48 | beandog | They cant just re-copyright it under a new license if they already released it under one. |
| 00:08.56 | mheath | Yeah, you can |
| 00:09.12 | beandog | well, wahtever. |
| 00:09.13 | mheath | You can change your licensing terms at any time, if theirs no contract with the licensee. |
| 00:09.26 | mheath | Look, I know their intentions are good |
| 00:09.29 | beandog | So you can invariably void any past license? |
| 00:09.37 | beandog | That makes zero sense. |
| 00:10.02 | beandog | meh, I gotta work, and I really dont care anyway. |
| 00:10.11 | mheath | beandog: Yeah, you can |
| 00:10.14 | mheath | If theres no contract |
| 00:10.34 | mheath | Not old versions / releases someones already obtained, though. |
| 00:10.52 | mheath | not like you can say "oops, you can't have that on your computer anymore" |
| 00:17.09 | *** join/#utah Lakshmi___ (n=chatzill@adsl-69-109-167-5.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 00:22.10 | mheath | Any web designers here / around? |
| 00:23.28 | fozzmoo | mheath: What do you need? |
| 00:23.29 | Supaplex | not if it involves asp |
| 00:23.38 | *** join/#utah hatul30 (i=ariel@gateway/tor/x-8e9c7c9aa6c37981) |
| 00:23.57 | fozzmoo | ASP isn't really related to web design. |
| 00:24.10 | fozzmoo | It's a server-side scripting language/framework. |
| 00:24.19 | fozzmoo | But you knew that. :) |
| 00:24.24 | Supaplex | deh :P |
| 00:24.25 | *** join/#utah Lakshmi___ (n=chatzill@adsl-69-109-119-23.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 00:24.38 | fozzmoo | ~smack Lakshmi__ |
| 00:24.39 | ibot | ACTION smacks Lakshmi__ upside the head. |
| 00:24.43 | mheath | Actual layout / design is what I need |
| 00:24.50 | Supaplex | ~lart asp |
| 00:24.50 | ibot | slaps a compatible dib on asp's head |
| 00:24.54 | mheath | Looking for some suggestions on a hideous page I've been asked to improve |
| 00:25.01 | mheath | if I had it my way, I'd completely redo the whole thing |
| 00:25.10 | Supaplex | I like oswd.org |
| 00:25.18 | mheath | But I've been told to keep it relatively like it is |
| 00:25.35 | mheath | Site is http://www.utahseacadets.org/ |
| 00:25.37 | brac | [Great Salt Lake Division - United States Naval Sea Cadet Division] |
| 00:26.21 | mheath | Some obvious things, is I'm going to completely rewrite it to be standards compliant, CSS based (its table based now) |
| 00:26.26 | fozzmoo | mheath: Have you visited http://www.oswd.org/ or http://www.openwebdesign.org/ ? |
| 00:26.28 | brac | [Open Source Web Design - Download free web design templates.] |
| 00:26.38 | mheath | fozzmoo: I'm not looking for a complete new design |
| 00:26.50 | mheath | I would completely redo it, but I don't have that option |
| 00:26.55 | mheath | they like the basic look, for some reason |
| 00:27.08 | mheath | So I was just asking for some suggestions on some _improvement_ I could do |
| 00:27.16 | fozzmoo | I thiknk you are. :) |
| 00:28.03 | mheath | fozzmoo: heh |
| 00:28.10 | mheath | Like I said, I wish I could :( |
| 00:28.24 | fozzmoo | I would look for a 3-column fixed-width (I usually go fluid and not fixed, if possible) template you can use. |
| 00:28.35 | fozzmoo | and then put their existing content into it. |
| 00:28.39 | mheath | yeah, I want a fluid width |
| 00:28.49 | mheath | I think the page should adjust with teh size of the screen and browser |
| 00:28.58 | fozzmoo | That's my mantra as well. |
| 00:29.03 | mheath | Its stupid - the current site is constricted to half my browser space. |
| 00:29.11 | mheath | So, yeah, its going to be a fluid width |
| 00:29.30 | mheath | and I'm rewriting it to (still look the same but) be standards compliant XHTML and CSS |
| 00:30.11 | fozzmoo | There's a template I've used on a couple recent sites called fluidity |
| 00:30.16 | fozzmoo | fluidity2, actually |
| 00:30.16 | Supaplex | last modified when html4 was new. ;) |
| 00:30.25 | fozzmoo | Guy that wrote it is named Dave Reeder |
| 00:30.41 | fozzmoo | http://www.oswd.org/design/information/id/3566 |
| 00:30.41 | brac | [Open Source Web Design - Design Information - fluidity2] |
| 00:31.02 | fozzmoo | His template is white on black... obviously not a drop-in replacement for your sea cadet page |
| 00:31.20 | mheath | Interesting idea, though |
| 00:31.36 | fozzmoo | but if you tweak the color scheme in CSS and use his onequaterpage and onehalfpage classes... |
| 00:31.45 | mheath | I could keep the same color scheme, horrible graphics, content, and drop it into a better formatted, cleaner looking page like that |
| 00:31.49 | fozzmoo | for your left/right sidebar and main body containers... you should be good. |
| 00:32.38 | mheath | I hate using horrible button graphics like that |
| 00:32.51 | fozzmoo | Good luck. |
| 00:33.22 | mheath | heh |
| 00:33.26 | mheath | I don't like gold on white |
| 00:33.30 | mheath | who the heck came up with that? |
| 00:33.45 | mheath | Hmm |
| 00:33.57 | mheath | When I was taking web dev class, the instructor gave us a link to a Flash based color tool |
| 00:34.15 | mheath | you could input a color, and it would give you a list of all the colors that go well with it |
| 00:34.25 | mheath | Anyone know of a site / tool that does that? |
| 00:34.46 | Supaplex | I'm sure google could give you a few hints |
| 00:34.54 | Supaplex | they're not uncommon |
| 00:35.00 | Tene | there are a bunch online, and even a few standalone apps in your favorite linux distro repository. |
| 00:55.48 | chadbryant | she lives in one of the complexes off 45th South |
| 00:56.07 | chadbryant | she dropped by her apartment after lunch today |
| 00:56.16 | chadbryant | caught a maintenance guy in her apartment |
| 00:56.26 | chadbryant | "fixing" things |
| 00:57.05 | chadbryant | as soon as he left, she started looking around |
| 00:57.12 | chadbryant | underwear drawer in a mess |
| 00:57.21 | chadbryant | TV turned on |
| 00:57.37 | chadbryant | and two orders of "Adult programming" in her purchase history |
| 01:22.04 | Supaplex | bummer |
| 01:23.38 | *** join/#utah wps (n=wps@208.53.47.251) |
| 01:31.03 | *** join/#utah sinuhe (n=sinuhe@72.16.250.178) |
| 01:42.04 | findlay | ~ww |
| 01:42.04 | ibot | Was the window wrong or are you wrong? |
| 01:42.13 | findlay | ibot: you are wrong |
| 01:42.14 | ibot | findlay: what are you talking about? |
| 01:42.22 | findlay | -chat about what are |
| 01:42.22 | brac | what are you creating a web service handling my books. |
| 01:43.10 | Supaplex | -chat about stories |
| 01:43.11 | brac | stories is |
| 01:44.57 | raventh1 | -chat about but |
| 01:44.58 | brac | but is so repugnant? |
| 01:45.08 | raventh1 | -chat about butt |
| 01:45.08 | brac | butt went |
| 01:45.15 | Supaplex | hehe |
| 01:45.37 | Supaplex | -chat about raventh1's butt |
| 01:45.37 | brac | raventh1's butt |
| 01:45.53 | Supaplex | -chat about lame bot |
| 01:45.53 | brac | lame bot |
| 01:46.02 | Supaplex | eh yeah. |
| 01:46.18 | raventh1 | -chat about Supaplex |
| 01:46.18 | brac | Supaplex went |
| 01:46.48 | raventh1 | -chat Supaplex |
| 01:46.49 | brac | Supaplex did |
| 01:47.03 | raventh1 | ya done |
| 01:47.57 | Supaplex | ~lart brac's -chat about script |
| 01:47.58 | ibot | blasts brac's -chat about script to oblivion with a kamehameha wave |
| 01:48.08 | Supaplex | ;) |
| 01:52.13 | raventh1 | time to watch stargate atlantis |
| 01:59.19 | sontek | herlo: ping |
| 01:59.24 | sontek | ~simpsons raventh1 |
| 01:59.25 | ibot | ACTION sends raventh1 chasing a rolling pink donut down the hill screaming, "its still good!, its still good!" |
| 01:59.33 | raventh1 | ~lart sontek |
| 01:59.33 | ibot | moos at sontek |
| 02:00.20 | herlo | sontek: pong |
| 02:02.52 | sontek | mooing isn't a lart! |
| 02:02.58 | sontek | ~pee raventh1 |
| 02:02.59 | ibot | ACTION pee's upon raventh1 like a waterfall. |
| 02:20.54 | *** join/#utah tiwula (n=lane@195.sub-166-161-154.myvzw.com) |
| 02:28.56 | *** join/#utah sjansen (n=sjansen@72.16.250.178) |
| 02:34.12 | raventh1 | ~lart sontek |
| 02:34.12 | ibot | executes killall -TERM sontek |
| 02:34.19 | raventh1 | ooh i could do that too :D |
| 02:34.25 | raventh1 | :o |
| 02:34.26 | rsimpkins | Can anyone think of some opensource related torrents that are popular? |
| 02:34.46 | raventh1 | fedora *? |
| 02:35.51 | rsimpkins | Humm, can't locate a tracker: http://torrent.fedoraproject.org/ |
| 02:35.54 | brac | [Bittorrent for torrent.fedoraproject.org] |
| 02:36.04 | rsimpkins | I wanted to donate some bandwidth to the cause - and a torrent is a good way to do that. |
| 02:36.22 | mheath | rsimpkins: Slackware has fairly popular torrents. |
| 02:36.36 | raventh1 | gentoo too |
| 02:36.40 | raventh1 | basically any distro |
| 02:37.03 | mheath | I always downloaded from a mirror.... |
| 02:37.21 | mheath | May be evil, but (though I haven't downloaded new ISOs in a while), mirros were still faster than torrents. |
| 02:37.27 | raventh1 | the dvd of gentoo is a torrent |
| 02:37.33 | *** join/#utah sinuhe (n=sinuhe@72.16.250.178) |
| 02:37.40 | rsimpkins | A lot of ppl still use the torrents though. |
| 02:44.31 | levi_home | An A/C line popped off on my van. :( |
| 02:45.48 | mheath | ooh, not good. |
| 02:46.10 | mheath | Heh, do what my dad did with his car, and just get rid of the A/C ;-P |
| 02:46.19 | levi_home | No thanks. :) |
| 02:46.32 | levi_home | I may just get a nice hose clamp and recharge it. |
| 02:46.55 | levi_home | It's r134a, so recharge kits are cheap. |
| 02:47.10 | mheath | (I'll just forget to mention that his is a classic convertible sports car that doesn't really NEED AC...just take the top down..) |
| 02:47.30 | mheath | That and his car had some old air conditioning system |
| 02:47.47 | mheath | I forgot what it was called specifically, but you can't get new stuff for it.. |
| 02:48.20 | *** join/#utah sjansen (n=sjansen@72.16.250.178) |
| 02:49.57 | sjansen | o/~ Whistling, whistling, whistling in the dark ~/o |
| 02:50.36 | sinuhe | In the dark, eh? |
| 02:50.49 | levi_home | Probably R12 (freon) |
| 02:51.45 | mheath | Yeah, that sounds right. |
| 02:51.55 | mheath | Hmm..I need to get an instant read thermometer... |
| 02:52.14 | levi_home | You can still get R12, but it's not produced anymore, just recycled. |
| 02:52.41 | mheath | well, IIRC, his was broken, and so he looked into options to upgrade + repair at the same time |
| 02:52.49 | mheath | Decided it was too expensive, so gave up on it |
| 02:52.56 | mheath | Put his money into a new engine for the car |
| 02:53.00 | levi_home | Yeah, for a convertible, not a big deal. :) |
| 02:53.10 | levi_home | That's why I haven't fixed the A/C in my Miata. |
| 02:53.29 | levi_home | Though, with these triple-digit days and its black interior, it would be nice to have. |
| 02:53.32 | mheath | I want Miata :( |
| 02:53.51 | mheath | Hmm, I'm going to bake some bread tomorrow. |
| 02:54.30 | levi_home | You can probably pick one up cheap. I got mine for $5000 quite a few years ago. |
| 02:54.51 | mheath | Heh |
| 02:54.56 | levi_home | And they're very reliable cars. |
| 02:54.59 | mheath | I'm unemployed and starting college :P |
| 02:55.05 | mheath | $5000 is not cheap :P |
| 02:55.10 | levi_home | True. |
| 02:55.39 | mheath | hmm |
| 02:55.47 | mheath | Anyone toss me a link to a good bread recipe? |
| 02:56.14 | mheath | Wish there was a good recipe for white bread....all the ones in the cook book turn out kinda dense.. |
| 02:56.26 | mheath | I want something light and fluffy |
| 02:56.32 | mheath | Ala wonder bread :P |
| 02:59.41 | mheath | GPL V3 is still bugging me |
| 02:59.43 | mheath | I don't lik |
| 02:59.47 | mheath | *I don't like it |
| 03:05.24 | *** join/#utah decriptor (n=sshaw@sshaw.fttp.xmission.com) |
| 03:09.24 | sinuhe | mheath: why is v3 bugging you? |
| 03:19.05 | mheath | I've had a debate with several people today over Stallman's whole anti-"tivoization" thing |
| 03:19.39 | mheath | I know their intentions are honorable |
| 03:20.00 | mheath | But its quite literally setting a limit on what hardware you are allowed to use GPLv3 software on. |
| 03:20.26 | mheath | And I don't feel that is in line with the fundamentals of FLOSS. |
| 03:23.32 | sinuhe | mheath: sorry I was lost in class during that discussion, and didn't have time to read back through things. As to Tivoization, it is not meant to limit the hardware, but to discourage using free software in ways that makes it non-free. |
| 03:24.38 | mheath | sinuhe: I KNOW, their intentions are good, but the effect is limitations on hardware |
| 03:24.55 | mheath | Tivoization is, obviously based on the closed nature of the software on the Tivo device. |
| 03:25.11 | sinuhe | As for FLOSS, there are a few philosophy hiccups at odds there. To over simplify, OSS strives for technical proficiency (not that they don't hold freedom as a value), whereas the Free Software community strives for freedom (not that they don't strive for technical proficiency). When the two come to blows, the highest priorities of the two groups become clear. |
| 03:26.02 | sinuhe | I've been involved with the debates over GPLv3 in the last couple of years, being part of the GNU Project, and this particular discussion was quite large. You might dig through the online postings at gplv3.fsf.org. |
| 03:26.27 | sinuhe | If Tivo would stop their proprietary hullaballoo, it wouldn't be a problem. |
| 03:27.24 | mheath | Yeah, but I see it limiting some of my personal indeavors |
| 03:27.31 | mheath | I've talked a lot about my multimedia platform |
| 03:28.04 | mheath | I was planning on the wireless tablet terminals having a hardware technlogy that would revert to a known good image if corruption / problems were detected |
| 03:28.26 | mheath | I think this is necessary to help assure continuous good operation of what is a closed (hardware wise) device with a very specific purpose |
| 03:28.35 | mheath | I find it rediculous that something like that, even, gets attacked |
| 03:28.47 | sinuhe | It would be great if free software could run on Tivo, but under current conditions, the free software would no longer be free. |
| 03:28.57 | mheath | ANd I find it horrible that people are telling me its unethical for me to be running free software on a device like that. |
| 03:29.04 | mheath | sinuhe: Sure it is! |
| 03:29.13 | mheath | They distribute the source |
| 03:29.17 | mheath | and let you do whatever you want with it |
| 03:29.52 | mheath | I know that modified source won't in turn run on their _hardware_ platform |
| 03:30.21 | mheath | But then again, it won't run on the intel 8086 _hardware_ platform, either. |
| 03:30.35 | sinuhe | I think you're stretching. |
| 03:30.45 | mheath | Personally, I think my free software should be kept free. |
| 03:31.01 | mheath | I feel its the decision of the person buying the hardware on what software works on it and doesn't. |
| 03:31.19 | levi_home | I don't have any problems at all with the Tivo arrangement either. |
| 03:32.11 | sinuhe | Well, the software stops being free under gplv2, but under gplv3 it remains free, but unusuable by Tivo to sell to vendors, and bury in hardware that restricts access to modify or reconfigure it. |
| 03:32.57 | mheath | How is it not free under GPLv2? |
| 03:33.10 | mheath | What am I not allowed to do with TiVo's software? |
| 03:34.45 | mheath | WHY DOES IT MATTER that it doesn't run on the original platform? |
| 03:35.02 | mheath | Say I had an embedded device with a 512K ROM filled with GPL'd software |
| 03:35.10 | sinuhe | Can you make modifications to the software on your Tivo? |
| 03:35.22 | mheath | If I modify that much, chances are it won't be 512K still |
| 03:35.27 | mheath | and won't fit on the device |
| 03:35.32 | mheath | IS that evil? |
| 03:35.39 | mheath | I mean these evil, embedded hardware manufacturers! |
| 03:35.42 | sinuhe | You blew off the question. |
| 03:35.45 | mheath | Limiting what I can or can't run on their platform! |
| 03:36.07 | mheath | sinuhe: Yes, I most definately am free to modify, copy, and distribute the software on the Tivo. |
| 03:36.33 | mheath | I can download the software right now, and do whatever I want with it. |
| 03:36.37 | sinuhe | I didn't ask if you were free to: I asked if you were technically cable, not as a developer, but as a TiVo owner. |
| 03:36.50 | sinuhe | s/cable/capable/ |
| 03:36.58 | mheath | Sure. |
| 03:37.12 | mheath | Like my 512K ROM idea, theres no promise that the end result will work on the underlying hardware platform |
| 03:37.18 | mheath | But, sure, I am 100% able to modify it in any way. |
| 03:38.37 | sinuhe | If you can modify the existing software installed to it, then using the GPLv3 software is not a problem. |
| 03:39.36 | mheath | sinuhe: ah, but it is, because like I said it's not going to work on the current hardware platform. |
| 03:39.54 | mheath | BUT what is wrong with making software free? |
| 03:39.57 | mheath | Who cares about hardware? |
| 03:40.19 | mheath | I thought part of the GNU software freedom philosphy is that users are allowed to do whatever they want with the software |
| 03:40.43 | mheath | You would think whatever they want would include running it on whatever weird, closed, broken, messed up, unethical hardware platform I want. |
| 03:41.36 | sinuhe | The GPL is restrictive in that it requires those that are licensed to use the software to maintain the same freedoms that the developer requires in the license. When TiVo blocks this use, GPLv3 explicitly states that that is not allowed. |
| 03:41.51 | sinuhe | GPLv2 does not explicitly state this, even though it implies it. |
| 03:42.37 | mheath | sinuhe: and thats broken. |
| 03:42.44 | mheath | The GPL is no longer free software. |
| 03:42.57 | mheath | I am now forced to do what the developer wants me to do with his software, not what I want to do. |
| 03:43.00 | sinuhe | I think you are misunderstanding the intent of the license. *You* are not TiVo, and are therefore not restricted; but if you buy a TiVo, the software they have put on it--GPL'ed software--is not modifiable by you, therefore it has now taken away your freedom, reserved to TiVo. |
| 03:43.18 | mheath | I AM a victim |
| 03:43.33 | sinuhe | mheath: Then you should be more interested in the MIT/X11/BSD license. |
| 03:43.40 | sinuhe | s/should/would/ |
| 03:43.54 | mheath | sinuhe: Sure. But some software now is being released as pure GPLv3 |
| 03:44.03 | mheath | Which is a non-free license. |
| 03:44.24 | sinuhe | You are right that the GPL restricts some freedom. It does so to protect the 4 essential freedoms in light of the restrictive nature of copyright law: it fights fire with fire. |
| 03:44.31 | mheath | I love it |
| 03:44.36 | mheath | Stallman complains about other licenses |
| 03:44.49 | mheath | Saying their horrible, they're non free! They restrict you! |
| 03:44.55 | sinuhe | This is an old argument. |
| 03:45.00 | mheath | And those licenses say "You can do whatever you want as long as you ____________" |
| 03:45.21 | mheath | Meanwhile, the wonderful, free great GPLv3 restricts your freedoms by saying 'You can do everything except _______" |
| 03:46.04 | sinuhe | Admittedly, some, like Theo de Raadt of OpenBSD, has argued that the GPL is barely usable by their project, because it is not free to be used by certain proprietary software entities. He's right: the GNU Project does not want their hard work being buried by corporations that are working against the very thing we are working for. |
| 03:46.36 | sinuhe | (We being the GNU Project.) |
| 03:46.56 | mheath | You are not a representative or spokesman for the GNU project, BTW :) |
| 03:47.02 | sinuhe | Actually, I am. |
| 03:47.19 | mheath | Heh |
| 03:47.28 | sinuhe | I am no longer a rep of the FSF, but I remain one of GNU. |
| 03:47.49 | mheath | I once got into an argument with someone who was going on about how they were a true GNU developer / important person / whatever |
| 03:48.02 | mheath | I forget exactly what they were talking about, but it was some BS I deeply disagreed with |
| 03:48.29 | mheath | Mainly to prove a point, I fired an e-mail off to the FSF asking if this GNU _developer_ representated the project or their views |
| 03:48.39 | mheath | They said nope, no way, not in the slightest. :) |
| 03:48.56 | sontek | mheath: http://www.gnu.org/people/webmeisters.html look for sinuhe ;) |
| 03:48.59 | brac | [GNU's Webmasters - GNU Project - Free Software Foundation |
| 03:48.59 | brac | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:49.07 | sinuhe | If you want to check my credentials, you can visit /people or the webmeisters list. As a GNU project developer I am not allowed to speak in contradiction to GNU. |
| 03:49.07 | sinuhe | heh |
| 03:49.28 | sinuhe | But send an email to webmasters@gnu.org, and I'd be happy to answer it. |
| 03:49.52 | sinuhe | (Please tell me in advance, since I'm not the only one who answers that email.) |
| 03:50.07 | mheath | You still don't officially speak for the FSF or the GNU project. |
| 03:50.12 | mheath | Sorry to burst your bubble. |
| 03:50.49 | sontek | mheath: are you coming to SLLUG tomorrow? |
| 03:51.02 | sinuhe | Whatever. The FSF is the board the foundation. They are the only official spokesperson for the FSF. As for GNU, the official channels are gnu@gnu.org, webmasters@gnu.org. |
| 03:51.08 | mheath | sontek: I'm worried I'd get in an argument :P |
| 03:51.13 | sinuhe | I remember you. |
| 03:51.39 | sinuhe | Some things have changed recently, yes. The FSF has reigned in more control that we had before. |
| 03:51.42 | sontek | mheath: have you ever been in a conversation that didn't end in argument? |
| 03:51.45 | sinuhe | s/that/than/ |
| 03:52.19 | sinuhe | However, I don't think I've said anything out of place. |
| 03:52.29 | mheath | sontek: You mean a normal conversation or ones that others start with such a delightfully inflammatory remark as that? |
| 03:53.20 | sontek | mheath: I've just noticed, over the past few months, you haven't had many conversations in here that didn't become an argument |
| 03:53.28 | sinuhe | rms is *the* official spokesperson, if you want to be that picky. |
| 03:53.33 | sontek | its nice that you are opinionated, you just have a poor way of expressing it |
| 03:53.52 | mheath | I hate RMS. Grr. |
| 03:54.07 | fozzmoo | mheath: I'm sure the feeling would be mutual |
| 03:54.35 | mheath | I love how he shows up the Hurd mailing lists, once every few months, to spout rubbish about some random philosophy or ideal of his thats abrely related to the topic he replies to. |
| 03:55.14 | fozzmoo | I picked up Richard at the airport a few years ago and drove him to Logan so he could speak at a Free Software Forum we hosted. |
| 03:55.29 | fozzmoo | That two hour drive was enough for me. |
| 03:55.42 | mheath | haha |
| 03:56.11 | mheath | I dunno |
| 03:56.51 | mheath | I just don't feel a bug mailing list you never post to is a good place to complain about 'tivoization' or talk about how your lawyers thing that it would be possible to relicense Linux as GPLv3 if we really wanted to. |
| 03:57.42 | mheath | I dunno, I might consider going to SLLUG. |
| 03:57.46 | mheath | Never been to SLLUG before |
| 03:57.54 | Supaplex | ibot: time |
| 03:57.55 | ibot | it has been said that time is 1 dimensional, or everlasting, an illusion, or 2007.07.18 3:57:55 GMT |
| 03:58.32 | *** join/#utah sinuhe (n=sinuhe@72.16.250.178) |
| 03:58.41 | mheath | ~clock |
| 03:58.42 | ibot | clock is probably <rss=http://newbabe.pobox.com/~rspier/cgi-bin/clock.cgi> |
| 03:58.42 | sinuhe | Doh: power bump. |
| 03:59.02 | mheath | Hmm, question |
| 03:59.09 | sinuhe | Your last comment I remember, mheath, was your dislike of rms. |
| 03:59.26 | sinuhe | My interactions with him have been quite personable, with one exception, where he wanted me to be more personable. Go figure. |
| 03:59.35 | mheath | With cable internet, if the cable modem is hooked up to a UPS, will internet work through a power outage? |
| 03:59.55 | sinuhe | It should. |
| 04:00.10 | Supaplex | you'd think crumcast would use ups's to |
| 04:00.18 | sinuhe | Heh |
| 04:00.49 | mheath | sinuhe: I haven't personally interracted with him. You just missed me complaining about his habbit of randomly posting replies filled with his philosophy and ideals to technical discussion threads on some mailing lists I subscribe to. |
| 04:01.48 | sinuhe | I've never known rms to be random. |
| 04:01.56 | mheath | He picks some minor comment and uses it as an excuse to jump in about some random thing thats bothering him like tivoization or Linux's licesning |
| 04:02.16 | chadbryant | my Comcast cable modem has a battery backup |
| 04:02.24 | chadbryant | but it only powers the telephony portion |
| 04:03.01 | mheath | And don't you dare reply to him! Oh, no, RMS is much too busy to read your reply |
| 04:03.27 | mheath | You'll get his I-receive-a-billion-emails-a-day-so-your-message-will-sit-in-my-inbox-for-a-month-before-a-filter-auto-deletes-it autoreply |
| 04:04.17 | sinuhe | I've noticed that you do that too, mheath. We all do. |
| 04:04.46 | sinuhe | Are you kidding? rms has responded to every email I've sent him. |
| 04:05.10 | mheath | I've sent him 3 or 4 and never received a reply except for that stupid autoreply POS |
| 04:05.16 | sinuhe | He's been very personable, open, and in some cases personal, on conversation having nothing to do with GNU. I've very much enjoyed my interactions with him. |
| 04:05.35 | sinuhe | s/tion/tions/ |
| 04:06.42 | sinuhe | There's been others in FLOSS that have been quite rude with me. I can't remember an occasion rms was anything but polite and patient with me. |
| 04:08.16 | mheath | LMAO |
| 04:08.36 | sinuhe | LMAO? (I don't keep track of all the acronyms out there.) |
| 04:08.47 | mheath | Stallman's personal website urges people to not buy Harry Potter books. |
| 04:09.10 | *** join/#utah herlo (n=clints@166-70-63-209.ip.xmission.com) |
| 04:09.37 | sinuhe | I urge people not to buy Microsoft. |
| 04:09.54 | herlo | sinuhe: really? me too! |
| 04:11.00 | sinuhe | herlo: that was in response to mheath noting that rms has boycotted Harry Potter books. |
| 04:11.09 | mheath | Complaining about the 'evil' injunction that a court made, preventing people from reading leaked copies of The Half-Blood Prince |
| 04:11.15 | herlo | sinuhe: I know, mheath talks a lot |
| 04:11.31 | mheath | aww :( power flicker... |
| 04:11.50 | mheath | herlo: Thank you. :) |
| 04:13.00 | mheath | http://www.stallman.org/harry1.html <-- That pisses me off the most, though |
| 04:13.01 | sinuhe | My buddy Mike (msc386) does, too. He's a good guy, though. I don't think I've met mheath (I've had a few GNU volunteers take me to dinner, so I've met some), so I couldn't say there. |
| 04:13.03 | brac | [Don't Buy Harry Potter Books] |
| 04:13.28 | mheath | Thats exactly the same kind of crap thats pissing me off now, only two years ago, and RMS is supporting it |
| 04:13.40 | herlo | sinuhe: I wasn't suggesting talking a lot was bad actually |
| 04:13.43 | mheath | People posting leaked crap about greatly anticipated stories |
| 04:14.06 | sinuhe | herlo: I didn't take it as bad or good, but neutral. An accurate observation, though. :-) |
| 04:14.17 | herlo | :) |
| 04:14.49 | sinuhe | As for the Harry Potter bit, I agree with rms on that one. |
| 04:14.52 | chadbryant | what, you mean about Harry Potter dying in the last book? |
| 04:14.53 | *** join/#utah decriptor (n=sshaw@sshaw.fttp.xmission.com) |
| 04:15.05 | chadbryant | er, I mean, oops |
| 04:15.11 | mheath | sinuhe: The injunction was kind of _stupid_, I agree, but not evil/criminal/a violation of their basic rights. |
| 04:15.11 | sinuhe | I haven't gone so far as not to buy copies for my wife, who likes them, but I don't buy them for myself. |
| 04:15.16 | sontek | he better not die until he hooks up with that hot chick |
| 04:15.24 | chadbryant | which hot chick? |
| 04:15.24 | sinuhe | Heh |
| 04:15.34 | sontek | Hermoine |
| 04:15.35 | mheath | sinuhe: What REALLY bugs me is he posts spoilers on his website! |
| 04:15.47 | sinuhe | Oh, puhlease. |
| 04:15.49 | sontek | I just watch the movies |
| 04:15.52 | mheath | Not for this one, but for the previous book; he posted spoilers before the book was released. |
| 04:15.56 | chadbryant | Hermione & Ron are an item as of the end of book 6 |
| 04:16.13 | sontek | Thats ok, I still have faith in Harry, hes a stud |
| 04:16.17 | sontek | hes just a late bloomer |
| 04:16.22 | chadbryant | Ginny > Hermione |
| 04:16.25 | sinuhe | If I liked Harry Potter (the writing anyways; the movies are tolerable), I still wouldn't buy them, but my wife enjoys them, so I have collected hardcovers for her. |
| 04:16.35 | herlo | sinuhe: what? its true |
| 04:17.16 | mheath | "However, I do not share his worry that many people would be so angry at seeing the information in the home page that they would lose sight of the issue of human rights. Such a response would betoken an extreme lack of sense of proportion about their own interests." |
| 04:17.32 | sinuhe | (For those married here, you know how morality becomes a luxury in some cases. Of course, my honey wouldn't ask me to sacrifice my principles either.) |
| 04:18.14 | sinuhe | herlo: what's true? |
| 04:18.24 | herlo | 22:06 * herlo doesn't even read Harry Potter rsimpkins |
| 04:18.27 | herlo | 22:06 < sinuhe> Oh, puhlease. |
| 04:18.28 | mheath | Thats essentially saying its OK to crush excitement and anticipation in an effort to be politically provocative |
| 04:18.55 | sinuhe | Oh, that was directed at mheath. Sorry for the confusion. |
| 04:19.02 | mheath | Does RMS listen to music, read books, or enjoy entertainment? |
| 04:19.09 | mheath | "The whole plot is now summarized in a Wikipedia page. If you feel you simply have to know what happens in the book, you can read that, instead of buying the book. |
| 04:19.15 | mheath | WTF? |
| 04:19.16 | sinuhe | Yes, though I know he won't buy DVDs. |
| 04:19.17 | herlo | :) I know |
| 04:19.34 | mheath | He's implying that you can just read a wikipedia summary of a book, and thats just as good as reading it. |
| 04:19.44 | mheath | Don't buy the book, just read the wikipedia summary! |
| 04:19.50 | mheath | WTF?! |
| 04:20.09 | sinuhe | herlo: Sorry, I can be slow when it comes to subtle humour. Perhaps it's a geek thing. :-) |
| 04:20.45 | sinuhe | mheath: How about going to the library and reading it, but if it is checked out a lot, avoid reserving it, and possible encouraging the library to buy more. |
| 04:20.46 | herlo | sinuhe: nah |
| 04:21.10 | herlo | sinuhe: I just don't listen to verbose people most of the time... |
| 04:21.44 | mheath | ~execute mheath --quiet |
| 04:21.54 | sinuhe | hehehe |
| 04:22.23 | sinuhe | herlo: It depends on whether I get a word in edge wise. The beauty of electronic communication is I can take it or leave it. |
| 04:23.00 | mheath | Wow, he lies, too... |
| 04:23.08 | mheath | calls a cheap knockoff book a "parody" |
| 04:23.09 | sinuhe | herlo: It company, however, it is quite rude. The art of small talk is also a matter of propriety. |
| 04:23.16 | sinuhe | s/It/In/ |
| 04:23.23 | mheath | Parodies are protected by law. Cheap imitations, are't. |
| 04:23.33 | sinuhe | You noticed that ibot ignored him. :-) |
| 04:23.35 | herlo | sinuhe: agreed |
| 04:24.43 | mheath | WOw, I'm going to be blogged about. Interesting. |
| 04:24.59 | mheath | Oh a rather popular blog |
| 04:25.00 | sinuhe | As for rms, I have a great deal of respect for him. We've had several conversations around different political issues, and there's no doubt he's quite liberal, but he's always made sense in his explanations to me, i.e. we tend to come from the same place, even if disagree on some ends. |
| 04:25.30 | sinuhe | mheath: blogged about? |
| 04:25.46 | mheath | Yes. Mentioned in a blog entry. |
| 04:25.54 | mheath | Erm, more than mentioned.. |
| 04:26.15 | sinuhe | Is ibot moonlighting on you? |
| 04:26.19 | mheath | Been in coorespondence with someone who just told me that he'd like to include our coorespondence in a blog post. |
| 04:28.08 | sinuhe | Fair use. |
| 04:28.28 | sinuhe | I'm headed for bed. I've got a busy day tomorrow. |
| 04:30.05 | mheath | sinuhe: Fair use? |
| 04:30.55 | mheath | Night, sinuhe |
| 04:31.26 | sinuhe | Any public forum, email, USENET post, etc is fair use to a point. However, I find it is far more honest to post a direct conversation that is initiated, and then quote from an online discussion, allowing for a response. |
| 04:32.19 | mheath | uh |
| 04:32.35 | mheath | This is personal coorespondence, not technical |
| 04:32.53 | mheath | RElated to my attempts at military service |
| 04:32.55 | sinuhe | I personally am picky in any public forum that is intended to be public. I tend to be a little looser here, because I consider it good company, and at worst logged amongst a gazillion other IRC logs. |
| 04:33.11 | mheath | It's a Marine Major (select) that's blogging about me..... |
| 04:33.23 | sinuhe | Interesting. |
| 04:33.34 | sinuhe | Anyways, I'm off. Good night. |
| 04:36.08 | levi_home | Heh. Interesting discussion you guys had. |
| 04:36.25 | mheath | Indeed :P |
| 04:36.29 | levi_home | I wish RMS hadn't given up coding for his crusade. |
| 04:36.36 | mheath | Yeah |
| 04:36.44 | mheath | I get the impression he used to be a very talented programmer |
| 04:36.49 | mheath | I don't think he does much (any?) anymore.. |
| 04:36.51 | levi_home | Oh, he definitely did. |
| 04:37.06 | mheath | s/does/doesn't/g |
| 04:37.42 | levi_home | He single-handedly re-implemented all the features the Symbolics team created for their Lisp Machine platform for the AI Lab and the more hacker-friendly Lisp Machine Inc. company. |
| 04:37.53 | levi_home | Plus he wrote gcc and GNU emacs. |
| 04:38.15 | levi_home | Though I imagine a lot of his work has since been reimplemented or whatever as time has moved on. |
| 04:39.23 | levi_home | He's always felt very strongly about software freedom, and I think the Symbolics betrayal really set him in his ways. |
| 04:39.39 | mheath | I could be completely confused/mixed up, but I thought Roland whats-his-last-name contributed a lot to early GCC... |
| 04:39.49 | levi_home | Well, probably so. |
| 04:40.18 | mheath | No, I'm thinking of the GNU C Library... |
| 04:40.54 | *** join/#utah Sargun (n=Sargun@atarack/staff/sargun) |
| 04:41.08 | Sargun | Lazy, or intelligent: self-modifying code? |
| 04:42.41 | levi_home | Sargun: Try making a little more sense. |
| 04:42.56 | mheath | ~gnome Sargun |
| 04:43.05 | levi_home | mheath: The gcc intro does say that the original author is RMS. |
| 04:43.25 | levi_home | Anyway, he was quite the hacker. |
| 04:43.35 | Sargun | Is self-modifying code smart or stupid |
| 04:43.54 | levi_home | Sargun: I don't think you can make a general statement regarding that. |
| 04:44.12 | Sargun | Under what cases would it be good |
| 04:44.15 | Sargun | Python on an x86? |
| 04:44.24 | levi_home | What are you getting at? |
| 04:44.39 | mheath | ibot: gnomic $blah is <action> informs $blah that though the woodpecker pecks, the house stands just as strong |
| 04:44.39 | ibot | okay, mheath |
| 04:44.42 | levi_home | It would be good when it produces useful results at a reasonable cost. |
| 04:44.46 | mheath | ~gnomic Sargun |
| 04:44.47 | ibot | ACTION informs Sargun that though the woodpecker pecks, the house stands just as strong |
| 04:45.11 | Sargun | Under a python-based DB intensive application is self-modifying code nasty, or is it useful? |
| 04:45.44 | mheath | Wow |
| 04:45.53 | levi_home | It is not currently a very common technique, and it can have readability/maintainability costs. |
| 04:46.27 | mheath | self-modifying code? |
| 04:46.30 | levi_home | Depending on what exactly you mean, it might also be forbidden on some hardware architectures. |
| 04:46.38 | mheath | I'm not sure how code is truly self modifying. |
| 04:46.44 | mheath | I must be confused about the term |
| 04:47.03 | levi_home | mheath: It was a fairly common code-bumming technique in old assembly programming. |
| 04:47.34 | mheath | "Alas, I don't think a newbie can help much in this area. |
| 04:47.35 | mheath | This is not easy programming. |
| 04:47.59 | mheath | " |
| 04:48.09 | levi_home | mheath: Since code is data in a von Neumann architecture, you can use code to write the code that will be executed in the future. |
| 04:48.55 | levi_home | There was an excellent Ph.D dissertation on an OS built using runtime code specialization and other nifty tricks called Synthesis (I think). |
| 04:49.10 | levi_home | mheath: You should read it; it's a fascinating paper. |
| 04:49.40 | mheath | I understand that concept |
| 04:49.43 | levi_home | The guy built his own computer and wrote his own OS and was obsessed with koalas and piggy-back rides. |
| 04:49.44 | mheath | Code-that-writes-code. |
| 04:50.10 | mheath | But you're not really modifying your program. I don't think the term self modifying is good. |
| 04:50.50 | levi_home | Sure you are. |
| 04:51.14 | levi_home | In most programs, the code page is fixed and read-only. All the code that will execute is fixed at load time. |
| 04:51.19 | levi_home | Only the path through it changes. |
| 04:51.45 | mheath | oh, I understand beter now |
| 04:51.47 | levi_home | In a self-modifying program, the contents of the code page actually change. |
| 04:52.12 | mheath | Code that shifts for execution path purposes, at the low machine level. |
| 04:52.53 | levi_home | It doesn't necessarily have to be at the machine level, either, if you're talking about self-modifying code in an interpreted language. |
| 04:53.12 | mheath | I thought we were talking just about programs that make changes to themselves in general...Kinda like a Java program that spits out a new .java, or something. I was commenting that that isn't really modification, because it was programmed to spit out that new Java file, so you could continue that new files operation to be part of the parent. |
| 04:53.13 | levi_home | In that case, we'd refer to the 'text' of the program rather than low-level stuff like code segments. |
| 04:57.24 | mheath | I'm trying to decide on a language for a web development project of mine. |
| 04:58.18 | mheath | levi_home: do you have any suggestions? |
| 04:58.29 | sontek | asp.net + mono |
| 04:58.31 | mheath | Willing to learn a new language, as long as its fairly simple to learn |
| 04:58.37 | mheath | ~ingore sontek |
| 04:59.01 | mheath | ~ignore sontek |
| 04:59.02 | ibot | ACTION sticks her fingers in her ears. "La, la, la! I can't hear you, sontek!" |
| 05:01.26 | sontek | mheath: well, I guess you could use a language with no standardized class library such as PHP if you want =) |
| 05:01.43 | sontek | mheath: I'm just saying, ASP.NET + C# is an amazing web development combo |
| 05:02.30 | mheath | Nope, sorry. |
| 05:03.36 | sontek | Your loss |
| 05:04.23 | mheath | Funny enough, I'm OK with that. |
| 05:05.02 | mheath | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:16.29 | Sargun | uh-oh. |
| 05:16.44 | mheath | Probably go with PHP. |
| 05:19.05 | sontek | mheath: Its a great language for non-programmers |
| 05:22.40 | levi_home | mheath: What kind of web project? |
| 05:23.09 | levi_home | I would avoid php unless there are compelling reasons to use it. |
| 05:23.23 | *** join/#utah tuxd00d (n=tuxinato@128.187.189.162) |
| 05:24.04 | levi_home | Python and Ruby have excellent web programming tools. |
| 05:24.14 | levi_home | Perl, too, if you don't mind coding in Perl. |
| 05:24.38 | levi_home | All of the above have well-established web tools with reasonably-sized communities. |
| 05:25.04 | levi_home | If you want to get more experimental, I've got all sorts of other suggestions, too. |
| 05:25.19 | levi_home | Smalltalk+Seaside is an awesome way to do web apps. |
| 05:27.38 | levi_home | The lift web framework, which uses Scala, looks very interesting too but isn't very established. |
| 05:28.21 | levi_home | It runs on the JVM and can take advantage of all the Java class libraries you're familiar with, which should be handy to you. |
| 05:29.41 | levi_home | mheath: Are you still there? :) |
| 05:29.50 | mheath | levi_home: I was gone for a sec, I'm back now |
| 05:30.08 | mheath | To be honest, the biggest requirement, I think, will be finding a langauge that has a library to fill out PDF forms. |
| 05:31.16 | mheath | I'm working on an electronic paperwork management system for this military-related youth group I work on. |
| 05:31.49 | mheath | Its going to manage all the paperowork and admin information, and allow changes via web forms, etc |
| 05:32.01 | mheath | Added beefit is that cadets can log in and see certain information / do certain things |
| 05:32.25 | levi_home | I think there are some Java libraries to do that. |
| 05:33.45 | *** join/#utah lane_ (n=lane@208.64.90.18.static.utahbroadband.com) |
| 05:34.26 | mheath | apparently you can do it with PHP too |
| 05:34.31 | mheath | http://koivi.com/fill-pdf-form-fields/ |
| 05:34.42 | levi_home | Yes, but php is a nasty thing. |
| 05:37.31 | klys | levi_home: where's a good python reference |
| 05:40.00 | Sargun | Python is an amazing programming language. |
| 05:40.22 | mheath | Does Python have PHP-form-filling support? |
| 05:40.23 | *** join/#utah bertbob (n=bertbob@c-71-199-36-31.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 05:42.05 | levi_home | http://rgruet.free.fr/PQR25/PQR2.5.html |
| 05:42.09 | brac | [Python 2.5 Quick Reference] |
| 05:44.06 | levi_home | mheath: Apparently this code does it: http://www.accesspdf.com/article.php/20050421092951834 |
| 06:01.02 | bertbob | http://fohs.bgu.ac.il/bgu-med/pub/windowserror.jp |
| 06:01.17 | bertbob | jpg clearly |
| 06:01.40 | sontek | bertbob: You can disable that in your bios |
| 06:05.45 | bertbob | it's just funny that windows protects one from itself |
| 06:06.09 | bertbob | if one is so silly as to use it |
| 06:06.58 | Supaplex | yesterday is such a fad. HAH. |
| 06:07.12 | sontek | bertbob: its not exactly a windows thing, its built into the hardware |
| 06:07.39 | sontek | bertbob: Linux supports DEP too |
| 06:07.58 | bertbob | I guess my hardware is too old then |
| 06:08.46 | *** join/#utah bonez31 (n=scott@c-71-195-243-49.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 06:09.12 | bonez31 | what would I run, to check to see which services are using a few specific ports? |
| 06:10.18 | sontek | netstat -A |
| 06:12.39 | bonez31 | sontek: that lists out options..... |
| 06:13.09 | bonez31 | sontek: what I am hoping for is to see what service is listening on port 110 for example.... |
| 06:17.56 | sontek | netstat -pltn should do it |
| 06:18.07 | sontek | and pipe it to grep to get 110 specifically |
| 06:18.13 | sontek | p will tell you the PID of the app |
| 06:18.19 | sontek | then you can just use ps to find out the ap |
| 06:18.22 | sontek | app( |
| 06:18.58 | bonez31 | I tried this 'netstat -plunt | grep <port number> that shows .. then I killed everything... |
| 06:19.04 | bonez31 | on those ports |
| 06:43.10 | mheath | So, interesting enough, I've found some things that suggest that harry potter leak might be fake.... |
| 06:44.26 | mheath | Apparently, the Library of Congress catalog registration notice is incorrect |
| 06:52.10 | chadbryant | which "leak"? |
| 06:52.21 | mheath | The big one? |
| 06:52.25 | chadbryant | the torrent that has pictures of every page of the book? |
| 06:52.26 | mheath | Search on the internet |
| 06:52.28 | mheath | Look on the newws |
| 06:52.36 | mheath | Gra a paper in a few hours |
| 06:52.37 | mheath | chadbryant: yeah. |
| 06:52.39 | chadbryant | already read it |
| 06:52.45 | mheath | Someone posted saying that the library of congress notice is wrong |
| 06:52.48 | mheath | Wrong number of pages |
| 06:52.51 | chadbryant | someone would have had to go to a LOT of trouble |
| 06:53.07 | chadbryant | to produce one bound book |
| 06:53.09 | mheath | And that several of the pictures, the book and hand is identical with different text on the book. |
| 06:53.34 | mheath | chadbryant: They're suggesting, I think, that its photoshopped |
| 06:53.41 | mheath | Perhaps use one of the previous versions as a base? |
| 06:54.03 | mheath | chadbryant: you really did already read it? (Please respect me and other poeple here and don't spoil anything if you did?) |
| 06:54.19 | chadbryant | yeah, I already read it |
| 06:54.20 | mheath | Just wondering...if you've read the other books, does it fit / consistent with her writing style? |
| 06:54.30 | chadbryant | the font is identical |
| 06:54.32 | mheath | that is, does it seem real to you? |
| 06:54.39 | mheath | chadbryant: Thats not hard to fake |
| 06:54.42 | mheath | Its a common font |
| 06:54.47 | chadbryant | the illustrations are very much in the style of previous books |
| 06:54.50 | mheath | each book specifies in teh back exactly how the typsetting is preformed |
| 06:54.54 | mheath | Font, size |
| 06:55.24 | chadbryant | the writing style is nothing that I'd assume wasn't Rowling |
| 06:57.14 | chadbryant | I have 759 pages |
| 07:00.05 | chadbryant | it's not like the book hasn't been printed and bound for weeks |
| 07:00.22 | mheath | chadbryant: yeah, but they claim high security. |
| 07:00.36 | chadbryant | don't be gullible |
| 07:00.46 | chadbryant | it's sitting in bookstores across America right now |
| 07:00.55 | mheath | No, it's not. |
| 07:01.08 | mheath | It being distributed to small booksellers in a few days |
| 07:01.22 | mheath | Big places (Barnes and Noble, etc) have it |
| 07:01.29 | mheath | But they're the ones that have supposedly been doing insane security |
| 07:01.43 | chadbryant | there are libraries that got their copies last week |
| 07:02.07 | chadbryant | all it takes is one copy snuck out of a bookstore or library |
| 07:02.24 | mheath | I still think its horrible someone would do that. |
| 07:03.10 | mheath | When the last book came out, there were a few instances of people driving by bookstores where people were standing outside in line, yelling spoilers as they went by. |
| 07:04.18 | chadbryant | some people are childish |
| 07:04.38 | mheath | Its beyond childish |
| 07:04.40 | mheath | It's rude |
| 07:06.16 | chadbryant | it got leaked |
| 07:06.24 | chadbryant | some people already know that so-and-so dies |
| 07:06.29 | chadbryant | and so-and-so doesn't die |
| 07:06.44 | chadbryant | and so-and-so and another so-and-so get married |
| 07:08.23 | chadbryant | and that the alternate ending is James & Lily Potter waking up and finding Bobby Ewing in their shower |
| 07:08.30 | chadbryant | OK, not really |
| 07:10.29 | chadbryant | BTW, I just pulled up the listing for the book on Amazon.com |
| 07:10.37 | chadbryant | their page tally is different |
| 07:10.39 | chadbryant | BUT |
| 07:10.50 | chadbryant | the ISBN numbers appear to match |
| 07:15.00 | mheath | Meh, I don't care |
| 07:15.07 | mheath | I'm not looking at any more news sites |
| 07:15.22 | mheath | I've been betrayed by like 4 that I frequent, with supposed spoilers |
| 07:15.25 | mheath | This is retarded |
| 07:18.24 | *** part/#utah bonez31 (n=scott@c-71-195-243-49.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 07:41.20 | Supaplex | hummm http://www.stumbleupon.com/tag/wtc/ |
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| 08:55.05 | nick125 | evening everyone :p |
| 08:55.33 | mheath | evening |
| 08:55.39 | mheath | I'm just about to go to sleep, finally |
| 08:56.07 | mheath | my sleep pattern is so messed up |
| 08:56.12 | mheath | every night I go to sleep later and later |
| 08:56.22 | mheath | Wait a few weeks, I'll be back to going to sleep at a normal time |
| 09:06.29 | nick125 | This is such a pain the the rear. The classes I want to take are either at a different campus or I have to take some dumb prerequsite |
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| 10:54.17 | klys | oops |
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| 12:48.05 | ^Migs^ | http://www.eonline.com/news/article/index.jsp?uuid=2427dc52-0027-4a74-b66b-2668270b1890 |
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| 15:16.07 | findlay | silly girls |
| 15:16.59 | jsmith | findlay: Life, liberty, and the happiness of pursuit? |
| 15:17.21 | findlay | silly jsmith |
| 15:17.45 | jsmith | Hey, don't you dare put me in the same category as the girls! |
| 15:17.51 | findlay | sorry |
| 15:21.30 | maquis | hey! |
| 15:22.01 | findlay | I love all the cool firefox extensions, but sometimes I wish the browser wouldn't gobble so much resources |
| 15:23.46 | *** join/#utah shadowwire (n=shadowwi@mail.swplumb.com) |
| 15:24.16 | jsmith | maquis: No offense, but I don't think you want to be lumped in the with silly girls either. (Girls, yes. Silly girls, well...) |
| 15:24.45 | shadowwire | Hello all. Especialy silly girls. |
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| 15:26.01 | shadowwire | im sorry to hear that |
| 15:26.48 | maquis | jsmith: that's what i'm complaining about... |
| 15:27.21 | jsmith | maquis: Oh, I thought you were razzing me about not wanting to be with the silly girls |
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| 15:27.43 | maquis | jsmith: no... i was complaining about findlay's comment about girls being silly |
| 15:28.27 | shadowwire | Thats just silly. |
| 15:29.37 | shadowwire | was that a tumbleweed that just rolled by? |
| 15:30.45 | findlay | maquis: so you assert that there are no silly girls in this world? |
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| 15:34.03 | maquis | findlay: i certainly wouldn't claim that |
| 15:34.27 | maquis | i just don't like girls getting lumped into one pile and being considered silly |
| 15:35.25 | findlay | maquis: read my comment. I didn't say *all* girls were silly |
| 15:35.58 | ^Migs^ | FREE FROGURT http://www.glamour.com/images/sweeps/tcby.pdf |
| 15:37.17 | QBFreak | anyone here familiar with LWP::UserAgent and basic authentication? |
| 15:37.45 | findlay | QBFreak: you can start out with WWW::Mechanize. It's pretty easy |
| 15:38.00 | QBFreak | I'm using WWW::REST actually |
| 15:38.22 | findlay | hm |
| 15:38.53 | klys | shadowwire: hey whassup man? |
| 15:38.57 | QBFreak | at this rate though, I may just end up doing my own REST client with something standard like that |
| 15:39.32 | QBFreak | near as I can tell, I've done what I need to, but it still wont work |
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| 15:45.00 | shadowwire | Hey Klys |
| 15:45.18 | klys | anything doin' you down |
| 15:45.26 | *** join/#utah beandog (n=sdibb@gentoo/developer/beandog) |
| 15:45.36 | shadowwire | Yea, uh... Down. |
| 15:45.44 | shadowwire | You? |
| 15:45.53 | klys | it's a happy morning |
| 15:46.04 | klys | I just downlloaded and ran irrlicht |
| 15:46.09 | klys | ...for 3d modelling |
| 15:46.17 | shadowwire | sweet. |
| 15:46.33 | klys | it's shamefully slow without acceleration though, I have to do it with my other box |
| 15:46.56 | klys | maybe I'd have acceleration with XP who knows |
| 15:47.32 | shadowwire | graphics cards are so $cheap$ nowadays. |
| 15:48.03 | klys | haha, I have a tablet pc with an intel chip |
| 15:48.21 | shadowwire | ah yes. The laptop. |
| 15:48.35 | klys | and of course the other system with the Matrox G400 is for video |
| 15:48.47 | shadowwire | a laptop with nice graphics is the opposite of cheap. |
| 15:49.14 | klys | this one has a very sensitive pen that I can get programming output from |
| 15:49.34 | klys | the display is fixed at 1024x768 |
| 15:50.33 | shadowwire | So, what are you doing these days? |
| 15:50.39 | klys | no job yet |
| 15:50.52 | shadowwire | where does the $ come from? |
| 15:50.57 | klys | I might go apply at home depot or something |
| 15:51.07 | klys | I had a job, and I'm not buying a lot... |
| 15:51.18 | shadowwire | Savings? |
| 15:51.45 | klys | so, I have a 24-pack of chili here in the kitchen |
| 15:51.57 | shadowwire | I see... |
| 15:52.02 | klys | and I've made crepes a few times l8ly |
| 15:52.14 | shadowwire | Well, dont starve. |
| 15:52.19 | klys | and tapioca again yesterday, crepes are good with that |
| 15:52.40 | shadowwire | Your skinny enuph as it is. |
| 15:53.02 | klys | another bud here has a printer and I should probably hit him up soon for the resume update |
| 15:53.22 | sjansen | I have yet to meet a girl that isn't occasionally silly. Some just have more control than others. |
| 15:53.44 | klys | yeah they like to laugh and that to me means they don't like much |
| 15:54.32 | shadowwire | what an odd conversation. |
| 15:55.01 | klys | well, as long as you can tell what everyone is saying and reply to everyone, I think it works |
| 15:55.26 | shadowwire | Why does'nt anyone here use punctuation? |
| 15:56.09 | shadowwire | Well gotta go. |
| 15:56.25 | klys | ciao |
| 15:56.31 | shadowwire | L8er! |
| 15:56.31 | klys | when are you coming back? |
| 15:56.43 | shadowwire | A couple of hours probably. |
| 15:56.48 | shadowwire | Ill stay on. |
| 15:56.50 | klys | ok |
| 16:04.53 | elg | ah, gnucash release; runs on windows |
| 16:06.56 | klys | does it support .qif for quickbooks? |
| 16:08.35 | elg | I wouldn't know, other than it says this on the homepage: "QIF/OFX/HBCI Import, Transaction Matching" |
| 16:08.39 | findlay | ~lart windows |
| 16:08.39 | ibot | makes a balloon animal out of windows |
| 16:08.47 | findlay | yeah! |
| 16:09.10 | Tene | ~windows findlay |
| 16:09.10 | ibot | ACTION installs Windows ME on findlay's PC. |
| 16:09.26 | findlay | ~curse Tene |
| 16:09.26 | ibot | May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, Tene ! |
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| 16:32.59 | Tene | itsafozz |
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| 17:03.05 | mheath | Good morning, everyone! |
| 17:05.59 | mheath | Wow |
| 17:06.05 | mheath | I just lost all respect for CNN. |
| 17:06.09 | Tene | orly? |
| 17:06.16 | beandog | you had respect for it? |
| 17:06.22 | Jayce^ | beandog, agreed |
| 17:06.23 | elg | he's still a whippersnapper |
| 17:06.29 | mheath | They actually posted links to spoilers in their article about the Harry Potter leak. |
| 17:06.37 | beandog | how can you honestly respect any news source that has advertising? |
| 17:06.47 | elg | and now you're going to spoil it here |
| 17:06.54 | mheath | Well, not literal links, but full URLs. |
| 17:07.11 | mheath | elg: no, never, an I'm desperately trying to avoid spoilers. |
| 17:07.26 | elg | which is why you're reading articles about it on cnn |
| 17:07.39 | mheath | Which is why its annoying as heck that every news site I have has posted some stupid article about it that either contains / links / invites in the comments spoilers |
| 17:07.51 | mheath | s/have/read/g |
| 17:08.15 | Tene | mheath: Snape kills Voldemort. |
| 17:08.57 | mheath | yeah, seriously, don't do that |
| 17:09.01 | mheath | I knew you were joking, but still |
| 17:09.06 | mheath | I've waited decades for this boo |
| 17:09.08 | mheath | *book |
| 17:09.26 | mheath | I've grown up with it, read it since I was in elementary school, and anticipated every new book |
| 17:09.34 | Tene | and... you've been alive for how many decades? |
| 17:10.00 | mheath | I'd like to be able to read and enjoy my copy of the book |
| 17:10.09 | mheath | NOT look at freakin blurry images on the interet |
| 17:10.25 | mheath | and NOT have random people tell me spoilers |
| 17:11.21 | Tene | mheath: the first book was published in 1997. It's currently 2007. That's only one decade. |
| 17:12.21 | mheath | Sorry, I didn't mean to use the plural. That was a typo. |
| 17:12.40 | Tene | Also, I'm online every day, and I haven't seen anything of the sort... you must hang out in weird places online. |
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| 17:14.02 | elg | speaking of potter. I'm 32nd in line at the library (but it looks like they ordered 17 copies) |
| 17:14.16 | mheath | "We are almost there! As launch night looms, let's all, please, ignore the misinformation popping up on the web and in the press on the plot of Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows. I'd like to ask everyone who calls themselves a Potter fan to help preserve the secrecy of the plot for all those who are looking forward to reading the book at the same time on publication day. In a very short time you will know EVERYTHING! |
| 17:14.28 | sontek | yeah, I haven't seen one spoiler yet, but I guess if you troll harry potter forums you'll get the occasional spoiler |
| 17:14.44 | beandog | Ive got an idea |
| 17:14.45 | Jayce^ | well, don't call myself a potter fan, so I guess it's my duty to spread the endinjg around.. |
| 17:14.53 | Jayce^ | oh wait, I don't care enough |
| 17:14.56 | fozzmoo | heh. |
| 17:14.57 | beandog | Just stay off the freeking Internets and dont search harry potter news if you dont want to accidentally read the spoiler. |
| 17:15.07 | mheath | beandog: thats my complaint |
| 17:15.11 | mheath | I haven't been looking for it |
| 17:15.19 | mheath | Lots of mainstream sites have been doing it too |
| 17:15.33 | mheath | If you noticed, one of the first things I said this morning was complianing that even CNN was _leanking_ to it |
| 17:15.44 | mheath | s/leanking/linking/g |
| 17:16.06 | raventh1 | aaaaaaaaaaabbbcccdeafghaaierudauetisdkfjah |
| 17:16.10 | raventh1 | s/a/9/g |
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| 17:16.38 | sjansen | Well that's a new one. Xen changed my MAC address. Persistently. Even after a cold boot the card is f00bd |
| 17:16.53 | fozzmoo | You're running Xen on a Mac?! |
| 17:16.55 | fozzmoo | Wow!! |
| 17:17.05 | sjansen | ~lart fozzmoo |
| 17:17.05 | ibot | flings poo at fozzmoo |
| 17:17.30 | dataw0lf | sjansen: wow |
| 17:18.15 | Tene | mheath: simple solution: "don't follow the links" |
| 17:18.19 | Tene | Wow, problem solved. |
| 17:18.54 | mheath | I can't even read comments on lots of mainstream sites anymore though |
| 17:19.09 | mheath | because people find it fun to insert harry potter spoilers in th comments of unrelated articles now |
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| 17:19.44 | beandog | the cruelty! |
| 17:19.44 | beandog | btw, Harry is gay. |
| 17:19.54 | sjansen | Dumbledore marries Hermione! |
| 17:20.07 | beandog | sjansen: lol |
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| 17:21.58 | fozzmoo | beandog: That would explain SO much. |
| 17:22.18 | *** join/#utah gillyboat (n=adam@65.89.234.66) |
| 17:22.27 | fozzmoo | Oh dear. |
| 17:22.31 | fozzmoo | gillyboat is here. |
| 17:22.37 | fozzmoo | All Harry Potter nonsense must cease. |
| 17:24.01 | raventh1 | s/nonsense/talk |
| 17:24.03 | sjansen | Gryffndor and Hufflepuff merge for form a criminal syndicate. Surprisingly, they elect Ron as their head. It is implied, but not directly stated, that he's just a puppet for his brothers. |
| 17:24.16 | raventh1 | /kick sjansen |
| 17:25.07 | Lakshmi | haha |
| 17:25.09 | gillyboat | Fozz tells me you all might like to read this Harry Potter article. No spoilers included. |
| 17:25.10 | gillyboat | http://www.cracked.com/index.php?name=News&sid=2235 |
| 17:25.11 | brac | [CRACKED.com - 6 Questions The Last Harry Potter Book Had Better F#@king Answer] |
| 17:25.17 | gillyboat | that's the one |
| 17:25.40 | fozzmoo | better fhashating answer! |
| 17:25.45 | elg | I have the ending right here: |
| 17:25.46 | elg | http://hans.fugal.net/tmp/harry.cgi |
| 17:26.02 | fozzmoo | heh. |
| 17:26.06 | fozzmoo | elg: Bored much? |
| 17:26.15 | elg | 5 minutes :) |
| 17:27.07 | raventh1 | /win hide |
| 17:27.19 | fozzmoo | ~smack raventh1 |
| 17:27.20 | ibot | ACTION smacks raventh1 upside the head. |
| 17:27.58 | raventh1 | irssi tells me: You can't hide the last window |
| 17:28.00 | elg | (in case you are too paranoid to click that, it's a random ending generator) |
| 17:28.03 | raventh1 | but it's not the last window :( |
| 17:29.24 | fozzmoo | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:33.06 | bonez39 | fozzmoo: gotta love that funny chinese/english....eh? |
| 17:33.46 | fozzmoo | Yep! |
| 17:36.30 | fozzmoo | It's adult engrish week on engrish.com! |
| 17:36.32 | fozzmoo | Whew. |
| 18:02.31 | klys | in today's news, you'd think the president will be clinton; republicans have no reading candidate for president. |
| 18:02.39 | klys | s/reading/leading/ |
| 18:02.46 | klys | thanks ibot |
| 18:03.44 | sinuhe | Clinton or Obama? |
| 18:03.45 | fozzmoo | It's pretty sad for Dems, really, if Clinton is the best they can do. |
| 18:03.46 | gillyboat | who is going to be vice president, Jane Wyman? |
| 18:03.59 | fozzmoo | Obama is definitely a better candidate... but he's not doing so well in the polls. |
| 18:05.25 | sinuhe | I think the polls are misleading at the moment. Clinton has a good body of already existing constituents. I think Obama will gain as the populous starts paying attention. |
| 18:06.07 | fozzmoo | Depends... people are drawn to Obama because he's a good communicator and doesn't have the post-menopausal angst Clinton does. He knows how to talk to the average person. |
| 18:06.57 | fozzmoo | But his policy record is extremely liberal. He makes John Edwards look like Jerry Falwell in that regard. |
| 18:08.02 | fozzmoo | It will be interesting to see how things play out. |
| 18:08.22 | fozzmoo | In my book, an Oprah-endorsement is not a good thing. :) |
| 18:09.00 | klys | so, the vice-president would have to reflect democratic interests, I still don't know what doing so would entail |
| 18:09.23 | fozzmoo | VP... Oprah? :) |
| 18:09.40 | gillyboat | I just can't see her presiding over the senate |
| 18:09.56 | klys | all I can see is that democrats have held consistently more diverse spending policies and more progressive tax policies than have republicans |
| 18:10.35 | fozzmoo | klys: I can't really agree with you. Overall, both parties have been spending like gangbusters. |
| 18:10.55 | fozzmoo | progressive tax policies? Heh heh. That's a good one. |
| 18:10.59 | klys | yes, they sit on the same bill |
| 18:12.02 | klys | how would you describe democratic representation of the economy (please don't be flamebait) |
| 18:12.31 | fozzmoo | Democrats don't really want anything "new"- they just want to go back to higher taxes and more social programs. |
| 18:12.54 | fozzmoo | They call that "progressive" but it's a butchering of the word. |
| 18:13.17 | sinuhe | I would say that want to stop overspending, but allow for programs that are not targeted only at the rich. |
| 18:13.19 | fozzmoo | How about a flat tax? That would be a new, truly-progressive line of thinking. |
| 18:14.02 | klys | fozzmoo: you can only talk about flat taxes in unspoiled taxation turf such as sales |
| 18:14.10 | fozzmoo | Not income? |
| 18:14.17 | fozzmoo | That's where most of the federal tax revenue comes from. |
| 18:14.18 | klys | never legitimately |
| 18:14.19 | fozzmoo | Not sales. |
| 18:14.36 | klys | it's a third-party suggestion |
| 18:14.47 | fozzmoo | Yeah, it is. |
| 18:14.55 | sinuhe | Personally, I'd prefer a repeal of the admendment that allows for income tax federally. |
| 18:15.02 | fozzmoo | Because the GOP is as guilty of groupthink as the dems anymore. |
| 18:15.41 | fozzmoo | Ever seen a couple more spineless buffoons? |
| 18:16.44 | fozzmoo | klys: We talking abotu state or US? |
| 18:17.07 | klys | I'm not talking about state legislature. *nobody* knows about that |
| 18:17.11 | fozzmoo | The state senate is sad. |
| 18:17.59 | klys | perhaps you could go ther eand pass out `LOL' buttons |
| 18:18.15 | klys | ;) |
| 18:18.23 | gillyboat | I once rabbit-eared Orrin Hatch in a picture |
| 18:18.31 | fozzmoo | I mean, I'm happy it's largely conservative, because that's where my political belief lies, but you've got a few key liberal members - usually from SLC - that talk at length about the need to escape religion-dominated policy, etc. etc. and they're just ignored. |
| 18:18.55 | fozzmoo | Not even ignored... scoffed at. |
| 18:19.06 | fozzmoo | gillyboat: Good! |
| 18:19.10 | dataw0lf | of course they are, they're heathens |
| 18:19.27 | gillyboat | fozzmoo: your wife was in this picture too |
| 18:19.37 | fozzmoo | gillyboat: Okay then. |
| 18:20.04 | fozzmoo | Well, gillyboat wants lunch. |
| 18:20.19 | fozzmoo | What should we feed him? |
| 18:20.59 | klys | immediate economic policy with long-term socialist binoculars is a clear trademark of deficit danger |
| 18:21.44 | klys | now, read what sinhue said |
| 18:21.59 | klys | sorry sinuhe |
| 18:22.10 | gillyboat | It's true! The government is behind 9/11! |
| 18:22.13 | fozzmoo | about repealing the income tax? |
| 18:22.20 | klys | scroll |
| 18:23.08 | *** join/#utah Lakshmi___ (n=chatzill@adsl-69-109-164-239.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 18:24.26 | klys | anyway I get opinions from watching house debate. one time I saw a guy with a booklet of economic analyses, I think he didn't really get his say, though what would you expect, among a group that believes you can twist figures any way you like |
| 18:25.08 | dataw0lf | gillyboat: true enough. |
| 18:26.31 | mheath | Kinda nice to have socialized law enforcement, firefighters, mail, libraries...We are almost there! As launch night looms, let's all, please, ignore the misinformation popping up on the web and in the press on the plot of Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows. I'd like to ask everyone who calls themselves a Potter fan to help preserve the secrecy of the plot for all those who are looking forward to reading the book at the same time on publicatio |
| 18:26.38 | mheath | erm |
| 18:26.41 | mheath | that was a weird paste |
| 18:26.52 | mheath | Ignore everything except the first sentence, please |
| 18:26.57 | mheath | ~lart mheath's mouse |
| 18:26.57 | ibot | installs a bad bootloader on mheath's mouse and turns mheath's mouse into a brick |
| 18:27.04 | klys | haha |
| 18:27.57 | elg | only socialists leak potter secrets |
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| 18:28.11 | beandog | heh, elg |
| 18:29.28 | mheath | klys: why do you list socialist economic policies? |
| 18:30.15 | klys | socialist economic policies: consider chile. they are largely funded by tariffs and natural resource enterprise taxation. those are economic policies |
| 18:31.00 | mheath | OK? |
| 18:31.05 | klys | not OK |
| 18:31.22 | klys | it's a podunk way to do business with an unsuspecting would-be public |
| 18:32.51 | mheath | What? |
| 18:33.05 | klys | I am self-referential at times, I mean what I said |
| 18:33.10 | mheath | USA makes taxes off tariffs / import taxes, and taxes natural resource enterprises.. |
| 18:33.26 | mheath | I don't understand how taxing major industry is bad. |
| 18:33.26 | klys | yes, also |
| 18:33.45 | klys | because they are what they stand for and not what they produce? |
| 18:34.05 | klys | the tax on corporate stock is out of hand |
| 18:34.22 | mheath | How so? O.o |
| 18:34.23 | klys | of course, not in a capitalist republic |
| 18:35.03 | klys | though if I were to say impose a tax on major industry for antitrust reasons, it would be controversial here |
| 18:35.11 | mheath | My family has several million dollars in corporate stock. I fail to see how taxes on it are 'out of hand'. |
| 18:35.33 | klys | for that sake alone, byu your suggestion it means what it would be |
| 18:35.41 | klys | s/yu/y |
| 18:37.11 | klys | of course, we are entitled to tariffs and excise, and even to isolationist policy, but not toward any particular domestic entity |
| 18:37.54 | mheath | You're bordering on non-sensical rambling. |
| 18:38.04 | mheath | Hmm, I'm thinking about starting some sourdough starter... |
| 18:38.06 | klys | this is where sales taxation gets its expose, the trade deficit or surplus |
| 18:38.39 | elg | excellent pastime |
| 18:39.04 | klys | (you're bordering on holding me accountable for something that you speak out about and then forget) |
| 18:39.07 | mheath | seems easy enough |
| 18:39.13 | mheath | bread and water in a jar.. |
| 18:39.18 | klys | topic clear |
| 18:39.23 | elg | don't forget time |
| 18:39.42 | elg | and of course you mean flour and water |
| 18:39.50 | emcnabb | there mheath goes again, bragging about his (family's) millions |
| 18:39.58 | mheath | erm, yeah. |
| 18:40.36 | mheath | emcnabb: actually transfering any of that wealth into liquid assets would be impossible. |
| 18:40.56 | mheath | The bulk of our assets are in land we own in colorado. But its co-owned between an ever growing tree of relatives |
| 18:41.06 | mheath | Several of who refuse to any agreement to outright split it |
| 18:41.13 | mheath | Meaning its impossible to sell, develop, or do anything with |
| 18:41.16 | mheath | Which is as it is |
| 18:41.23 | mheath | I wouldn't want to do anything with that land anyway |
| 18:41.32 | mheath | It's the largets undeveloped parcel in that area |
| 18:41.44 | mheath | God knows theres enough 30 acre summer cabin subdivisions for rich people. |
| 18:42.02 | elg | if it's true, He knows it |
| 18:42.20 | emcnabb | I though you had "several million dollars in corporate stock". So you have millions in land and stocks? |
| 18:42.33 | mheath | meh, I was exagerating, to make a point. |
| 18:43.02 | mheath | We have about $900,000 in BP stock |
| 18:43.06 | emcnabb | ah, I didn't catch that |
| 18:43.16 | mheath | And thats just because my granpa worked for an oil company and bought up stock options |
| 18:43.26 | klys | points are not well-contained in a continually erupting medium, I would not recommend them, meh |
| 18:43.26 | mheath | and that company got bought up by a company that got bought up by BP |
| 18:44.06 | mheath | klys sometimes sound like brac's -chat would if brac hung out in #politics. |
| 18:44.11 | mheath | Or maybe I just get confused. |
| 18:44.18 | klys | look up point: contention |
| 18:44.36 | mheath | elg: sourdough starter gets going pretty fast if you add a little yeast to help it along, doesn't it? |
| 18:44.43 | elg | no |
| 18:44.52 | elg | a commercial yeast culture does though |
| 18:45.09 | elg | but that doesn't tend to be stable in sourdough usage patterns |
| 18:45.09 | mheath | yeast you buy at the store is a commercial culture... |
| 18:45.15 | elg | so it will peter out |
| 18:45.19 | mheath | ah. |
| 18:45.38 | mheath | elg: you've done this before? How long does it take for it to get started enough you can transfer it to the fridge? |
| 18:45.44 | elg | if you want to have the quickest/best chance use whole wheat flour while starting it |
| 18:45.52 | elg | esp. organic, but that's not necessary |
| 18:46.05 | elg | about a week. sometimes less (esp. in the summer) |
| 18:46.15 | emcnabb | mheath: where did that question come from (about sourdough)? |
| 18:46.30 | mheath | bah, we used to have a thing of whole wheat flour that had weavels in it |
| 18:46.32 | mheath | just threw it out |
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| 18:46.39 | mheath | It would have been quite usable for this, I think. |
| 18:46.49 | elg | yup |
| 18:47.01 | elg | for weevils, use bay leaves |
| 18:47.21 | mheath | emcnabb: what do you mean? Just thinking about making bread |
| 18:47.36 | mheath | And figured that instead of constantly buying yeast, I could make some sourdough starter |
| 18:48.04 | emcnabb | mheath: you aways seem to be doing some random thing |
| 18:48.37 | mheath | elg: How? I'm not concerned, really, because I don't usually have a problem with it (That flour had probably sat unused for a decade), but I'm curious |
| 18:48.49 | elg | dunno. they don't like bay leaves |
| 18:48.52 | mheath | emcnabb: I try to. Keeps life interesting. |
| 18:49.04 | mheath | elg: just like...set it ontop of the flour? :P |
| 18:49.23 | elg | lots of pests can be controlled with various kinds of plants (especially useful in gardens) |
| 18:49.36 | elg | weevils happen to be repelled by bay leaves. yah, just set it on the flour |
| 18:49.38 | klys | I'm pretty sure any bug would crawl right past a bay leaf |
| 18:49.40 | elg | or in the bin somewhere |
| 18:49.55 | mheath | I wish I had a garden |
| 18:50.03 | klys | weevils look like small beetles when grown |
| 18:50.05 | elg | it's not like a wall. it releases whatever smell, chemical, whatever that repels that insect |
| 18:50.11 | mheath | We have an excellent plot, but I wasn't here int he spring to plant one, and my dad didn't.. |
| 18:50.47 | elg | you can use bay leaves from the store |
| 18:50.47 | mheath | So only get the existant fruit plants. Do get peaches, apricots, prunes, cherries, and grapes. |
| 18:51.04 | elg | do get them. |
| 18:51.09 | klys | so, just throw them in the bucket and, no entry? |
| 18:51.32 | mheath | I want raspberries... |
| 18:51.33 | elg | well I wouldn't bet you my first airplane, but yeah |
| 18:51.49 | mheath | Need to go up to Bear Lake and get some |
| 18:52.02 | mheath | We made some wonderful raspberry jam like 5 years ago |
| 18:52.12 | mheath | I used up the last of it last year, though |
| 18:52.33 | mheath | Only got apricot and strawberry jam, now |
| 18:52.36 | ^Migs^ | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snJXhKzs0bw |
| 18:52.58 | mheath | elg: maybe you'd know.. |
| 18:53.14 | mheath | I've seen some substition stuff for using sourdough starter instead of yeast in other recipes |
| 18:53.22 | elg | mheath: if you'd like some ACME start I could send you some in about as long as it takes to make your own, and it's well-established |
| 18:53.24 | mheath | How does that effect the recipe / taste? |
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| 18:53.59 | elg | takes longer to rise, if you're depending on yeast to rise (i.e. more or less moot when doing biscuits) |
| 18:54.07 | elg | the taste, can be more sour |
| 18:54.22 | elg | or maybe just different |
| 18:54.31 | elg | depends on the recipe and the start |
| 18:55.26 | mheath | Grr, I need to throw that out... |
| 18:55.46 | mheath | MY dad has some fruitcake thats been in the fridge for several years now |
| 18:56.08 | mheath | I think I read that the "fruitcake lasts nearly forever" thing is most definitely a myth.... |
| 18:56.12 | nick125 | But it's still good! |
| 18:56.19 | klys | are you making a fruitcake! |
| 18:56.44 | klys | now, sourdough, sounds good |
| 18:56.53 | mheath | I am most definitely not making fruitcake |
| 18:57.00 | klys | heehee |
| 18:57.10 | mheath | NO other thing takes such yummy crystalized fruit and does something so horribly atrocious to it. |
| 18:57.12 | elg | http://artsroundup.com/fruitcake/display_links2.php |
| 18:57.13 | brac | [Society for the Protection and Preservation of Fruitcake] |
| 19:04.23 | mheath | brb |
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| 19:12.21 | *** join/#utah neybar (n=jalance@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 19:24.54 | findlay | messages? |
| 19:25.02 | Tene | bwuh? |
| 19:25.19 | findlay | ~shakespeare Tene |
| 19:25.20 | ibot | ACTION stands up and quotes Shakespeare: Tene - Would thou wert clean enough to spit upon! |
| 19:25.44 | findlay | ibot seriously needs to widen his Shakespeare vocabulary |
| 19:27.30 | Tene | http://danga.com/djabberd/ |
| 19:27.31 | brac | [DJabberd: XMPP server where everything is a plugin.] |
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| 19:38.38 | *** join/#utah chadbryant (n=chadbrya@c-71-199-47-124.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 19:41.28 | *** join/#utah sinuhe (n=sinuhe@66.60.228.140) |
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| 19:45.42 | ^Migs^ | Supaplex, are you around? |
| 19:47.05 | klys | a rare glimpse into an hour into the past: what the % was klys thinking back then? read more at www.megapathdsl.net/~rachel/pol-jul_07.txt |
| 19:49.56 | mheath | woot |
| 19:50.02 | mheath | my sourdough starter is..well..started |
| 19:50.18 | mheath | and my yeast bread dough is rising |
| 19:50.32 | klys | does it make fluffy bread? |
| 19:50.47 | mheath | klys: still trying to figure out what you're thinking _now_. |
| 19:51.24 | mheath | klys: hopefully |
| 19:51.26 | mheath | it seems to be rising well |
| 19:51.34 | klys | not much, just sitting here with a newspaper, wondering if shadowwire will show up, and peering at "talks with N. Korea begin" |
| 19:52.06 | mheath | I guessed on the water temperature (no kitchen thermometer), so I'm not perfectly sure it was optimal for yeast |
| 19:52.07 | klys | also have an allegro project, waiting for some uml cleanup |
| 19:52.10 | mheath | And I also goofed on the recipe |
| 19:52.22 | mheath | misread the amount of milk, and ended up putting some in slightly after I was supposed too |
| 19:52.49 | mheath | North Korea has never and will never do anything |
| 19:52.54 | mheath | Iran is the one you gotta worry about |
| 19:53.02 | mheath | As theirs reports now about them actively supporting terrorists in Iraqs |
| 19:53.10 | mheath | s/Iraqs/Iraq/g |
| 19:53.15 | klys | envoys and ambassadors met in Beijing |
| 19:53.29 | mheath | I want to go to war with Iran |
| 19:53.42 | mheath | If theirs a draft, I could probably tal them into letting me in =P |
| 19:53.51 | mheath | s/theirs/there'sg |
| 19:53.55 | mheath | grr |
| 19:54.03 | klys | I hear there will be a lot of special ops coming up |
| 19:54.17 | chadbryant | the military would do everything it could to avoid conscription |
| 19:54.27 | mheath | chadbryant: It would be necessary, though |
| 19:54.31 | Jayce^ | never done anything?? heh.. |
| 19:54.32 | mheath | For a full scale war with Iran |
| 19:54.58 | mheath | Erm, let me clarify |
| 19:55.07 | chadbryant | that's probably a good reason to avoid starting BS conflicts overseas, then |
| 19:55.16 | mheath | For a full scale war with Iran, keeping realistic deployment times, and sustaining tolerable morale, a draft would be necessary. |
| 19:55.47 | mheath | chadbryant: yeah, I know |
| 19:56.08 | mheath | That and the whole "if you or Israel attack us, we'll blow Israel off the map" thing |
| 19:56.34 | klys | I think we should stall until their next election without UN assistance |
| 19:56.48 | chadbryant | I have seen training cadres from both sides |
| 19:57.22 | chadbryant | it's bad enough to have people show up who willingly signed an enlistment contract, then decide they don't want to be there |
| 19:57.26 | mheath | Indeed. |
| 19:57.33 | mheath | People blamed me of that -.- |
| 19:57.48 | mheath | Kept coming up with BS theories about how I wanted to get kicked out. |
| 19:57.51 | dataw0lf | oh no |
| 19:58.01 | dataw0lf | are you guys talking about war with Iran |
| 19:58.06 | dataw0lf | if we attack Iran |
| 19:58.07 | chadbryant | it would be 100x worse to be yanking a nation of social/developmental reetees away from their computers, gaming consoles, and snack foods |
| 19:58.14 | klys | seems like a popular subject |
| 19:58.15 | dataw0lf | it'll be a nuclear attack on their enrichment facilities |
| 19:58.22 | dataw0lf | we wouldn't stay |
| 19:58.30 | dataw0lf | so, no, no draft would be necessary |
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| 19:58.42 | Tene | The best thing about the war on terror is that after we win, there will be no more terror. |
| 19:58.43 | mheath | chadbryant: meh, You'd be surprised. |
| 19:58.57 | mheath | Boot Camp can whip people into shape pretty effectively sometimes. |
| 19:58.59 | dataw0lf | Tene: I know, the world will be a peaceful place all of a sudden! |
| 19:59.01 | chadbryant | no, I wouldn't |
| 19:59.02 | klys | I think enough has been said for 'shock and awe' |
| 19:59.12 | dataw0lf | I was part of 'shock' |
| 19:59.14 | chadbryant | I've seen every possible stunt you can imagine |
| 19:59.18 | emcnabb | mheath: did you just say the only way you'll get into the millitary, through a draft? |
| 19:59.27 | dataw0lf | emcnabb: doooooooooooo it. |
| 19:59.33 | dataw0lf | (he's got me on /ignore) |
| 19:59.34 | mheath | emcnabb: Yeah, but I was joking. |
| 19:59.38 | dataw0lf | so you should be my proxy to talk smack on him |
| 19:59.48 | emcnabb | mheath: you have dataw0lf on ignore? |
| 19:59.51 | beandog | Tene: heh |
| 20:00.13 | mheath | emcnabb: Yeah. Is he talking? Heh...usually the conversation seems like its missing something if he is... |
| 20:00.30 | dataw0lf | he doesn't like me bringing up the fact that he failed out of TWO SERVICES |
| 20:00.31 | emcnabb | mheath: yeah, he is |
| 20:00.45 | emcnabb | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:00.53 | dataw0lf | and then still commenting on political / war talk |
| 20:00.56 | dataw0lf | if you can't make it |
| 20:01.01 | dataw0lf | then don't talk about it |
| 20:01.04 | dataw0lf | all I'm saying, you know |
| 20:01.09 | beandog | oh, que evil |
| 20:01.23 | mheath | emcnabb: I put him on ignore for a reason. Please don't relay his stuff and make me ignore you too :( |
| 20:01.29 | dataw0lf | didn't you mean 'cue evil', as in, dataw0lf is talking :) |
| 20:01.34 | chadbryant | someone who voluntarily enlisted and was discharged twice would probably be tagged 4F |
| 20:01.53 | dataw0lf | chadbryant: even if he got drafted, he'd fail out of boot YET AGAIN |
| 20:02.15 | dataw0lf | however, I could be drafted |
| 20:02.31 | dataw0lf | I've already got orders to report for service |
| 20:02.34 | dataw0lf | even though |
| 20:02.35 | dataw0lf | let's see |
| 20:02.39 | dataw0lf | I served three tours in combat |
| 20:02.39 | klys | the accusation is not well represented "all I'm saying, you know" |
| 20:02.44 | dataw0lf | with the 75th Rangers and 1/1 cav |
| 20:03.05 | mheath | chadbryant: Reentry code is RE-3G, Separation Code is JFX :) |
| 20:03.44 | dataw0lf | his reentry code should be "DONTEVERRECRUITTHISGUYAGAIN-4F" |
| 20:04.59 | klys | have more respect than to assume you can prove someone else is unreliable, though not in person, and not to anyone who cares |
| 20:05.06 | dataw0lf | Um |
| 20:05.32 | mheath | Funny enough, I really don't care about dataw0lf's opinion of me and my military career. I am still well respected by people in the military that I do care about. |
| 20:05.32 | dataw0lf | I've proven mheath is unreliable |
| 20:05.32 | dataw0lf | emcnabb: would you agree? |
| 20:05.33 | chadbryant | which service gave you that re-entry code? |
| 20:05.50 | dataw0lf | klys: I served in the military. Joined before 9/11, went to a variety of combat schools, served in Afghanistan and Iraq |
| 20:05.54 | mheath | chadbryant: Navy. |
| 20:06.00 | chadbryant | RE-3G Condition (not physical disability) interfering with performance of duty. |
| 20:06.07 | klys | ever go to ft. bragg? |
| 20:06.11 | dataw0lf | really, if anyone in this channel is 'qualified' to claim mheath is unreliable, it'd be me |
| 20:06.12 | klys | 'cause you brag |
| 20:06.17 | mheath | chadbryant: yeah. I could have told you that. |
| 20:06.18 | dataw0lf | klys: Yea, I was in Fort Bragg. |
| 20:06.25 | *** join/#utah fozzmoo (n=fozz@65.89.234.66) |
| 20:06.25 | dataw0lf | klys: and Benning |
| 20:06.51 | klys | hmm, where is ft. benning |
| 20:06.57 | chadbryant | Georgia |
| 20:07.03 | dataw0lf | klys: so there's something wrong for declaring my service in a military orientated argument? |
| 20:07.14 | dataw0lf | ft. benning is the base where infantry training takes place |
| 20:07.16 | mheath | chadbryant: Thats the obvious thing, isn't it? Given what happened. |
| 20:07.17 | dataw0lf | (amongst other things) |
| 20:07.18 | klys | say it again, shorter like you're used to |
| 20:07.25 | chadbryant | Ft Benning GA hosts OSUT training for infantry and Airborne school |
| 20:07.30 | mheath | (I still find how much I got screwed over by that doc frustrating...) |
| 20:07.49 | mheath | Hmm, is he listing off where he was stationed or something? LOL. |
| 20:08.39 | klys | like I'm reading, there's something wrong for this? let's see if it holds water |
| 20:08.43 | dataw0lf | is mheath actually like LOLing me? |
| 20:09.00 | dataw0lf | man, it's like, every day, I just want to kick him in the back of the head more |
| 20:09.04 | chadbryant | separation code JFX is for a personality disorder |
| 20:09.14 | mheath | Yep. |
| 20:09.22 | dataw0lf | yea, because he's a LOSER |
| 20:09.24 | mheath | chadbryant: you're not uncovering new and exciting things about me. |
| 20:09.31 | dataw0lf | you guys weren't here for all of his smarmy talk after he failed out of the Marines |
| 20:09.37 | dataw0lf | so excuse me if I'm a little bit pissed |
| 20:09.51 | dataw0lf | then he fails out of the Navy because he can't take the heat |
| 20:10.08 | decripto1 | freak we should really rename this channel |
| 20:10.13 | klys | no excuse is remanded |
| 20:10.18 | chadbryant | not making it in USMC boot, I can understand |
| 20:10.27 | dataw0lf | chadbryant: I can't. |
| 20:10.33 | dataw0lf | man up |
| 20:10.34 | dataw0lf | drink water |
| 20:10.34 | mheath | chadbryant: if you've missed the stories on what exactly happened, I could private message you, but I think I've bugged the channel enough. |
| 20:10.37 | dataw0lf | suck it up |
| 20:10.50 | dataw0lf | gimme a break, you're a volunteer |
| 20:11.01 | dataw0lf | I know a kid who broke his BACK in SFAS and went back 7 months later |
| 20:11.02 | dataw0lf | SFAS |
| 20:11.05 | dataw0lf | not marine boot |
| 20:11.08 | chadbryant | dataw0lf: no, I think you could agree that it takes a special kind of nut to be a Marine |
| 20:11.26 | klys | I had a comment about `who you are is what you get' |
| 20:11.30 | chadbryant | they won't take just any nut |
| 20:11.33 | dataw0lf | I make fun of Marines, but it's all good times. I've served with many a Marine. They're tough guys. You can't join if you're a wuss. |
| 20:11.34 | Tene | TheWoozle: http://www.idrewthis.org/2007/07/oh-those-moral-fundamentalists.html |
| 20:11.35 | brac | [Bird Brains (The IDT Weblog).] |
| 20:11.42 | dataw0lf | so don't do it |
| 20:11.45 | mheath | chadbryant: particularly the kind of person who doesn't repeatedly dislocate his knee cap while going through training :P |
| 20:11.52 | dataw0lf | oh noes knees |
| 20:11.58 | dataw0lf | typical excuse for a jerry kid |
| 20:12.23 | chadbryant | however, bombing out of Navy basic is equivalent to getting kicked out of Scout camp |
| 20:12.33 | dataw0lf | chadbryant: he failed out of AIT |
| 20:12.35 | dataw0lf | not even basic |
| 20:12.38 | dataw0lf | because he was a wuss |
| 20:12.42 | mheath | chadbryant: I didn't bomb out of Navy basic O.o |
| 20:12.42 | dataw0lf | and he was a nuclear squid |
| 20:12.52 | chadbryant | he bombed in A school?!? |
| 20:12.52 | dataw0lf | no physical training, really |
| 20:13.00 | dataw0lf | yea dude |
| 20:13.05 | dataw0lf | you see what I'm saying |
| 20:13.16 | chadbryant | *insert Price is Right loser tuba* |
| 20:13.26 | mheath | chadbryant: I did well in A school too. Second in my class, evals were great. |
| 20:13.40 | Tene | Perhaps this discussion should happen elsewhere. |
| 20:13.44 | mheath | I know. |
| 20:13.51 | mheath | I already offered to tell him about it in PM |
| 20:14.23 | Tene | Perhaps dataw0lf and chadbryant could also go to PM. That would be pretty cool. |
| 20:14.33 | Tene | Looks like they already have. |
| 20:14.41 | mheath | Good |
| 20:14.46 | dataw0lf | Not really. |
| 20:14.47 | klys | 'wuss' was never a bureaucratic label, if the label industry ever had a redeeming quality |
| 20:14.48 | chadbryant | I'm commenting on the topic at hand |
| 20:15.05 | dataw0lf | I'm a public entity. |
| 20:15.24 | klys | or, incorporated, he says |
| 20:15.36 | dataw0lf | I just came to discuss a war with Iran, since everyone here seemed to know so much about Iran. |
| 20:15.45 | dataw0lf | Like mheath knows ANYTHING about such a topic. |
| 20:15.55 | klys | so I think iran is mostly being blamed for the rhetoric of its leader |
| 20:15.57 | dataw0lf | anyone who fails out of services TWICE isn't allowed to talk about military objectives. |
| 20:16.03 | dataw0lf | klys: and you'd be right |
| 20:16.08 | dataw0lf | the people of Iran are fairly liberal |
| 20:16.11 | dataw0lf | especially the young people |
| 20:16.29 | mheath | chadbryant: dataw0lf dislikes me for some reason, and is fond of exagerating things and making up lies. Stretching what I say. You're a person I've never met, just chatted with on IRC, so I don't care much, but I don't think much of people who decide to base their opinion of me entirely on someone elses slander. |
| 20:16.37 | dataw0lf | if we started real diplomatic relations with them, it's extremism would burn out quite quickly. |
| 20:17.11 | klys | and the shah of iran was imposed by a gang, insurrected by aoperatives led by warburg; this is old information and may be labelled (theory, ad nauseum) that's just old news. but the form of governemtn of iran is what's at stake |
| 20:17.15 | dataw0lf | I think people are disillusioned about the fact that Iran is quite cosmopolitan |
| 20:17.20 | Jayce^ | klys, leader*ship*, not just the current pres.. |
| 20:17.36 | dataw0lf | klys: 'by a gang' / |
| 20:17.42 | dataw0lf | you mean the CIA, I hope |
| 20:17.49 | dataw0lf | because that's who put a dictatorship into Iran |
| 20:17.53 | dataw0lf | we overthrew their democracy |
| 20:17.55 | klys | gang, mob, chaos, china, spectral spectres |
| 20:17.57 | dataw0lf | about 50 years ago |
| 20:18.16 | sjansen | Stupid firewall! |
| 20:18.29 | mheath | ~block sjansen |
| 20:18.30 | ibot | jumps in front of sjansen and prevents any more damage from being done to all the victims in the channel |
| 20:18.47 | klys | sjansen: you can still msg me from earlier |
| 20:21.20 | klys | sjansen: my computer has frozen due to keyboard programming fouls several times recently, and I lost track of the nickserv info |
| 20:21.52 | *** join/#utah GvzEvxre (n=timr@216.49.181.128) |
| 20:21.52 | *** mode/#utah [+o GvzEvxre] by ChanServ |
| 20:22.04 | klys | so, we can talk later |
| 20:22.46 | emcnabb | dataw0lf: sorry, I got pulled into a call :-( |
| 20:23.09 | klys | I usually have a diff. username anyhow |
| 20:23.09 | emcnabb | mheath: I have to admit, I completely agree with the points dataw0lf makes |
| 20:23.25 | dataw0lf | oh wow, Turkey is bombing northern Iraq |
| 20:23.41 | Jayce^ | dataw0lf, yeah, they've been prepping for it for a while now |
| 20:23.47 | dataw0lf | I wonder if they have NATO support |
| 20:24.04 | sjansen | klys: Or we can talk in channel after I deal with a network issue. |
| 20:24.14 | sjansen | Or you can IM me. |
| 20:24.23 | klys | bitlbee's down here too |
| 20:24.32 | sjansen | Jabber: sjansen@gurulabs.com or sjansen@buscaluz.org or stuart.jansen@gmail.com |
| 20:24.54 | *** part/#utah beandog (n=sdibb@gentoo/developer/beandog) |
| 20:25.08 | maquis | when i was little, i used to hear a lot about what it was like in the 1930s |
| 20:25.18 | mheath | emcnabb: about what, exactly? |
| 20:29.43 | ^Migs^ | http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10452364 |
| 20:29.54 | ^Migs^ | if the prostitutes are taking courses, they'll need prostituition! |
| 20:31.25 | sjansen | ~ping |
| 20:31.26 | ibot | pong |
| 20:31.29 | sjansen | yay! |
| 20:38.13 | *** join/#utah {-} (n=sjansen@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com) |
| 20:38.15 | sinuhe | sjansen: So it was the firewall? |
| 20:38.36 | {-} | No, the firewall was preventing me from sending email asking for help. |
| 20:39.03 | sinuhe | Oh. |
| 20:39.30 | sinuhe | I thought that would have been odd for a firewall to play with mac addresses... |
| 20:41.53 | ^Migs^ | does anyone know if Supaplex is around? |
| 20:42.32 | ^Migs^ | is he usually at work right now or something? |
| 20:43.05 | Jayce^ | think he's "looking" |
| 20:43.13 | ^Migs^ | looking for a job? |
| 20:43.33 | Jayce^ | yeah |
| 20:43.37 | ^Migs^ | well he applied for a job here, and I thought he didn't get it in in time, but we don't like any of the current candidates and his resume's impressive |
| 20:43.44 | ^Migs^ | we need to interview him, but it has to be by the end of the day |
| 20:43.47 | ^Migs^ | MAYBE tomorrow |
| 20:43.59 | Jayce^ | nifty.. start poking him :) |
| 20:44.06 | ^Migs^ | I did |
| 20:44.07 | ^Migs^ | no answer |
| 20:44.11 | ^Migs^ | tried to call his phone number, too |
| 20:44.47 | {-} | smoke signals? |
| 20:44.56 | ^Migs^ | no, haven't tried that yet |
| 20:45.00 | findlay | hello |
| 20:45.11 | {-} | o/~ hello hello ~/o |
| 20:45.25 | findlay | anybody want to make a flash-laced site for me? |
| 20:45.32 | findlay | dynamic flash, actually |
| 20:46.06 | findlay | ~flash {-} |
| 20:46.06 | ibot | ACTION starts a firmware update on {-}, then pulls the plug halfway through |
| 20:46.17 | Tene | ~levi {-} |
| 20:46.17 | ibot | ACTION gives {-} a hovercraft and then fills it with eels! |
| 20:46.49 | neybar | of course murphy would come into play here, the more important the call the more likely you are to not be around to answer... I hope you get ahold of Supaplex |
| 20:47.20 | ^Migs^ | ah, nm |
| 20:47.23 | ^Migs^ | we got ahold of him |
| 20:47.30 | Jayce^ | ah good |
| 20:47.38 | Jayce^ | tell him to check IRC :-o |
| 20:47.42 | Jayce^ | heh |
| 20:49.09 | findlay | ~irc sinuhe |
| 20:49.23 | findlay | s/sinuhe/Supaplex/ |
| 20:51.05 | sinuhe | Good save findlay |
| 20:52.11 | sinuhe | ~whip ibot for failing to ~irc |
| 20:52.12 | ibot | ACTION takes ibot for failing to ~irc outside to be thoroughly whipped by sinuhe |
| 20:54.33 | sjansen | bah, NickServ's a hassle |
| 20:54.59 | findlay | msg nickserv steal sjansen and register it to AOL |
| 20:55.09 | chadbryant | identing to Nickserv is so much easier in Pidgin than mIRC |
| 20:55.27 | findlay | is anything easy on mIRC :) |
| 20:55.50 | chadbryant | yeah |
| 20:56.02 | Tene | mirc-- |
| 20:56.03 | chadbryant | installing what many AV utilities detect as a virus |
| 20:56.55 | findlay | ~mirc Tene |
| 20:57.05 | Tene | ~irssi findlay |
| 20:58.33 | sinuhe | Now a couple of weeks ago, Tene, I would have written ~ircII Tene |
| 20:58.51 | sinuhe | However, irssi is beginning to grow on me. |
| 20:58.54 | findlay | real men use netcat for their irc needs |
| 20:59.00 | sinuhe | hehe |
| 20:59.03 | levi | ~lart Tene |
| 20:59.03 | ibot | hurls dozens of incontinent, insomniac, hungry kittens with tiny little razor-sharp claws and a wide variety of contagious intestinal parasites at Tene |
| 20:59.12 | levi | Tene: You made me think someone said something to me. :P |
| 20:59.48 | Tene | levi: yes, I did. |
| 21:00.24 | findlay | ~tell Tene say "Hi levi" |
| 21:05.13 | sinuhe | Now that's interesting. netcat claims to be official GNU, but I'm not seeing it in the maintainers file. Hmmm. |
| 21:12.29 | elg | mheath: let me know how your bread turns out |
| 21:17.09 | mheath | I just shaped it into loafs |
| 21:17.13 | mheath | Its doing the last rising |
| 21:17.17 | mheath | The first rising worked REALLY well |
| 21:17.29 | mheath | It said "Let double, about 1 hour" |
| 21:17.40 | mheath | In 1 hour it was 3 times the size... |
| 21:17.46 | elg | cool |
| 21:17.48 | elg | what's your room temp? |
| 21:18.21 | mheath | Not sure exactly |
| 21:18.33 | mheath | I put it under lights though |
| 21:18.45 | mheath | The overhead vent thing over our stove...turned the lights on bright and put it under there |
| 21:19.01 | elg | the difference between 72° and 90° (for example) is dramatic |
| 21:19.51 | elg | in the growth of yeast |
| 21:20.28 | mheath | I'm hoping it turns out OK |
| 21:20.37 | elg | sure it'll be fine |
| 21:20.48 | mheath | I goofed a bit on the liquids at first, and had to add a little bit after I'd mixed it for a few seconds alreay |
| 21:20.48 | elg | it's hard to utterly destroy bread |
| 21:20.58 | elg | that won't hurt anything |
| 21:20.59 | mheath | Mixed/kneaded (modern mixers with dough hooks are awesome!) |
| 21:21.04 | elg | it's also hard to get it utterly perfect :) |
| 21:23.29 | mheath | I'm considering going to SLLUG tonight |
| 21:23.36 | mheath | Not sure I want to drive all the way down to SLC though |
| 21:23.42 | mheath | ANd risk getting lost up on campus there :P |
| 21:25.12 | levi | What's the topic tonight? |
| 21:25.15 | levi | Not that I have time to go. |
| 21:25.41 | mheath | GPLv3 discussion |
| 21:25.48 | levi | Oh, yuck. |
| 21:25.53 | mheath | meh |
| 21:25.59 | mheath | should be interesting at least |
| 21:26.04 | mheath | I've never been to a SLLUG meeting, though |
| 21:26.08 | mheath | whats the attendance usually like? |
| 21:26.22 | levi | Not to me. Last thing I want to hear is a tech group talk about politics. ;P |
| 21:26.41 | Tene | ~politics levi |
| 21:26.51 | levi | I've only been to one, and that's when it was hosted at my workplace and Tim Riker presented on the Tuxphone. |
| 21:26.56 | levi | It was pretty well-attended. |
| 21:27.04 | levi | But that was many years ago. |
| 21:27.08 | mheath | Ah |
| 21:27.15 | mheath | ANyone in here going to SLLUG tonight? |
| 21:27.24 | levi | I actually bought a Tuxphone afterward, too. |
| 21:27.32 | levi | Silly me. I've never done much with it. |
| 21:27.44 | mheath | you can give it to me, then :P |
| 21:29.31 | levi | Oh, sorry, it's a Tuxscreen, not a Tuxphone. |
| 21:29.39 | levi | Apparently the latter is a cell phone. |
| 21:30.38 | mheath | Tuxscreen? |
| 21:36.06 | decripto1 | /ignore mheath |
| 21:36.21 | decripto1 | /ignores mheath |
| 21:36.28 | decripto1 | forget taht |
| 21:36.33 | decripto1 | /ignores #utah |
| 21:36.42 | mheath | OK O.o |
| 21:36.49 | Tene | I believe the command you're looking for is "/part" |
| 21:37.07 | herlo | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:37.24 | jsmith | Or just press Alt-F4... that'll take care of it |
| 21:37.24 | mheath | levi: Tuxscreen looks cool, at least. Hadn't seen that before.. |
| 21:37.26 | findlay | ~part herlo |
| 21:37.42 | herlo | jsmith: nice idea, but I have other ideas for you |
| 21:37.54 | herlo | ~jsmith findlay |
| 21:37.55 | decripto1 | I don't mind a channel as long as it has something useful to add |
| 21:38.08 | jsmith | ~herlo findlay |
| 21:38.09 | ibot | ACTION pokes findlay with a sharp needle |
| 21:38.12 | findlay | well, then stay away from TC channels |
| 21:38.17 | findlay | s/C/V/ |
| 21:38.24 | decripto1 | what I need to do is ignore several (sorry mheath not just you) |
| 21:38.33 | herlo | ~herlo jsmith because he deserves it |
| 21:38.33 | ibot | ACTION pokes jsmith with a sharp needle because he deserves it |
| 21:38.58 | mheath | decripto1: Considering that I don't think I've ever seen you say anything in here before, go ahead. |
| 21:39.03 | mheath | I couldn't care less |
| 21:39.09 | decripto1 | lol |
| 21:39.35 | mheath | I dunno, I'm worried about going to that GPLv3 discussion |
| 21:39.40 | mheath | I'd get heated up |
| 21:39.48 | mheath | You all know how much I hate that stupid anti-"tivoization" crap |
| 21:40.06 | decripto1 | to much back and forth so its not just you I realize this isn't a linux channel but nothing more than agruing and stuff flies around |
| 21:42.51 | mheath | Stallman is going to keep forcing other people to think the way he does until our Free software isn't very free anymore |
| 21:42.57 | mheath | Already taken the first steps |
| 21:43.12 | mheath | Its now more what the developer things is good to do with the software than what the user things is good to do with it. |
| 21:44.42 | findlay | oh no |
| 21:46.29 | mheath | TimRiker: ping |
| 21:50.09 | findlay | ~pong |
| 21:50.10 | ibot | PING! |
| 21:50.23 | shadowwire | Sup Klys? |
| 21:51.49 | findlay | he's just another of those FBI agents |
| 21:51.54 | findlay | no big deal, really |
| 21:51.57 | shadowwire | me wonders why mheath wonders who shadowwire is. |
| 21:52.13 | shadowwire | rats. |
| 21:52.18 | findlay | hah |
| 21:53.27 | shadowwire | Remind me how to do that * name thing. |
| 21:53.58 | Tene | shadowwire: what thing are you referring to? |
| 21:54.15 | findlay | ~* Tene |
| 21:56.34 | *** join/#utah fozzmoo (n=fozz@65.89.234.66) |
| 21:57.48 | mrpull | shadowwire: try /me does something |
| 21:58.15 | mrpull | (again?) |
| 21:58.54 | shadowwire | cool; |
| 21:59.11 | TimRiker | huh? wha? |
| 21:59.33 | findlay | ha |
| 21:59.43 | shadowwire | ha indeed. |
| 22:00.03 | *** join/#utah jsmith (n=jsmith@h46055150.area3.spcsdns.net) |
| 22:00.46 | levi | Hmm, I should do this stuff to my Tuxscreen. Then it will really be useful: http://erire.com/eshan/ |
| 22:00.50 | shadowwire | Anyone like Fluke? |
| 22:01.14 | findlay | I'm not particularly favorable to worms |
| 22:01.17 | findlay | parasitic or not |
| 22:01.53 | levi | I don't suppose you mean Fluke the company that makes electronic test equipment? |
| 22:02.25 | fozzmoo | Or Fluke, the electronic music artist responsible for the song "Atom Bomb"? |
| 22:02.51 | findlay | "responsible" :) |
| 22:03.03 | levi | I'm guessing fozzmoo's guess is closer. |
| 22:03.27 | fozzmoo | findlay: Was that a poor choice of words? |
| 22:03.30 | levi | It would be kind of fun to get into electronics again. Like I have time for another hobby. :) |
| 22:03.31 | findlay | and I'd just rather not think about worms at present |
| 22:04.09 | findlay | fozzmoo: it was just funny you said 'responsible' as if he was the one to bring that woe upon humanity |
| 22:04.43 | fozzmoo | Ahhh. I suppose that would have been even more so had I used the word "liable" |
| 22:23.18 | *** join/#utah ofir (n=ofir@bzq-84-109-26-220.red.bezeqint.net) |
| 22:24.51 | *** part/#utah ^Migs^ (n=migs@205.122.50.69) |
| 22:27.56 | *** part/#utah fozzmoo (n=fozz@65.89.234.66) |
| 22:28.27 | *** join/#utah GvzEvxre (n=timr@216.49.181.128) |
| 22:28.27 | *** mode/#utah [+o GvzEvxre] by ChanServ |
| 22:29.44 | GvzEvxre | levi: there are a few shanip board designs around. they do the changes there and more. |
| 22:30.43 | levi | TimRiker: Yeah, I've tracked down some schematics. I'm afraid I'm not great with a soldering iron, though. |
| 22:31.55 | levi | TimRiker: Do you know if anyone outside of Lucent ever got it working at a SIP phone? |
| 22:32.00 | TimRiker | I've never actually gotten around to making a shanip myself. There were a few that offered to build them on the list long ago. dunno how much really happened. |
| 22:32.10 | ofir | hello all |
| 22:32.33 | TimRiker | yes. I know folks have done sip on it using the shanip patches. I don't know all the pieces needed though. |
| 22:32.38 | ofir | any 1 here knows the program : "kismet"? |
| 22:33.07 | levi | I wonder if there's much chance of the buildroot-tux system actually working without a lot of hacking now. |
| 22:33.28 | ofir | levi |
| 22:33.32 | ofir | where u from? |
| 22:33.51 | levi | Depends on what you mean by 'from', I guess. |
| 22:34.07 | ofir | hmm...geografically |
| 22:34.37 | levi | Born in Montana, moved around a lot while growing up, and have been in Utah for many years now. |
| 22:35.13 | ofir | ohh...ok...its just that u have a common name (in my country..) |
| 22:35.19 | ofir | any 1 here knows the program : "kismet"? |
| 22:35.41 | levi | What is your country? |
| 22:35.58 | ofir | levi,is there any chance u know this software? |
| 22:36.19 | levi | I know it does wireless sniffing, but that's about it. |
| 22:36.29 | ofir | :)) |
| 22:36.56 | ofir | damn...i have a problem that even google hasnt heard about it |
| 22:37.01 | ofir | ok....tnx |
| 22:37.59 | ofir | do u know the Roger Mor"s movie about Utah, by the way...? |
| 22:46.02 | levi | I don't think so. |
| 22:46.27 | tensai | I'm somewhat familiar with kismet |
| 22:48.43 | ofir | tensai |
| 22:48.46 | ofir | u here? |
| 22:51.45 | tensai | yes... |
| 22:56.13 | *** join/#utah Omniquad (n=vbcv@189.13.164.122) |
| 22:56.26 | *** part/#utah Omniquad (n=vbcv@189.13.164.122) |
| 23:09.05 | ofir | and now? |
| 23:42.40 | *** join/#utah Lakshmi___ (n=chatzill@adsl-69-109-172-18.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |