| 00:03.27 | *** join/#utah ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) |
| 00:03.28 | *** topic/#utah is The channel for content free discussion in Utah | http://plug.org/irc | Utah Open Source Conference - September 6-8, 2007 - https://register.utosc.org |
| 00:03.28 | *** mode/#utah [+o ibot] by ChanServ |
| 00:04.08 | mheath | Tene: grr, how I can output yum's output to a file and still see the interactive bits so I can cancel it? |
| 00:04.30 | mheath | yum update | tee yum-output.log doesn't work |
| 00:05.11 | Tene | mheath: I'd use screen, personally. |
| 00:06.42 | Tene | default scrollback is only 100 lines, so you'll need to increase it. |
| 00:06.54 | Tene | set the 'scrollback' option. |
| 00:07.08 | Tene | (or start with -h 1000 or some such) |
| 00:07.08 | mheath | I use screen , but how do I output it to a file so you can view it? |
| 00:07.19 | Tene | I'd use screen's copy/paste |
| 00:08.10 | Tene | You can also use the 'log' command |
| 00:08.20 | Tene | :log on |
| 00:08.51 | mheath | eh? |
| 00:08.55 | mheath | I guess I don't use screen enough |
| 00:12.17 | mheath | maybe 'tee' was working correctly... |
| 00:12.21 | mheath | I think my server is just being really slow |
| 00:12.27 | mheath | either that or yum is outright hanging now.. |
| 00:13.41 | QBFreak | mheath: to get to the colon prompt in screen, use ^A,: |
| 00:14.08 | mheath | just hanging now -.- |
| 00:14.15 | mheath | # yum update |
| 00:14.21 | mheath | Loading "installonlyn" plugin |
| 00:14.26 | mheath | Setting up Update Process |
| 00:14.30 | mheath | Setting up repositories |
| 00:14.37 | mheath | Reading repository metadata in from local files |
| 00:14.57 | mheath | OMG |
| 00:14.59 | mheath | 5 lines! |
| 00:15.00 | mheath | SPAM! |
| 00:15.03 | mheath | IT'S HORRIBLE! |
| 00:15.13 | mheath | I mean.. |
| 00:15.14 | QBFreak | sorry, I had no idea how much was coming |
| 00:15.16 | mheath | Oops, I just did it again. |
| 00:15.30 | QBFreak | when I run yum I usually get piles of output |
| 00:15.49 | mheath | QBFreak: yeah |
| 00:15.53 | mheath | usually after where its now hanving |
| 00:15.54 | mheath | *hanging |
| 00:17.10 | QBFreak | if it stops there, perhaps your repository files are messed up? |
| 00:17.19 | mheath | yeah |
| 00:17.28 | mheath | I ran yum clean all, now a yum makecache.. |
| 00:20.34 | mheath | Still hanging |
| 00:21.25 | QBFreak | :( |
| 00:23.13 | levi_home | Anyone doing mythtv with an HDTV? |
| 00:28.53 | mheath | thats hanging too...or taking a long time... |
| 00:43.03 | mheath | So, cool, RPM is broken. |
| 00:44.41 | Tene | oh, fun |
| 00:45.54 | mheath | Hangs on: |
| 00:45.59 | mheath | D: adding 55 entires to Filemd5s index. |
| 00:50.08 | mheath | woot, think I got it working.. |
| 00:51.02 | Tene | yay |
| 00:53.44 | mheath | goozbach: why does it seem like either my servers speed or my bandwidth has dropped insanely sometime during the last couple of days? |
| 00:56.29 | mheath | yum update seems to be taking something like 10 times longer than normal... |
| 00:56.34 | mheath | not sure if its the download or the local speed |
| 00:58.02 | *** join/#utah linuxalien (n=astromac@oalug/member/linuxalien) |
| 01:03.00 | mheath | Tene: http://www.mtheath.net/yum.log |
| 01:04.40 | mheath | Says gnome_panel is set to be updated |
| 01:04.46 | mheath | and thats what causes all the nasty deps |
| 01:04.48 | mheath | but: |
| 01:04.51 | Tene | Yeah, that certainly does look like gnome-panel is installed. You say that 'rpm -q gnome-panel' confirms that it's not? |
| 01:05.03 | mheath | [root@mtheath lib]# yum remove gnome_panel |
| 01:05.04 | mheath | Loading "installonlyn" plugin |
| 01:05.04 | mheath | Setting up Remove Process |
| 01:05.04 | mheath | No Match for argument: gnome_panel |
| 01:05.04 | mheath | No Packages marked for removal |
| 01:05.17 | mheath | oh, doh |
| 01:05.22 | mheath | gnome_panel vs gnome-panel |
| 01:06.16 | mheath | Will yum be OK if I remove it with rpm? |
| 01:06.20 | mheath | Or shoudl I remove with yum? |
| 01:10.53 | mheath | Great |
| 01:10.57 | mheath | I can't uninstall it |
| 01:11.06 | mheath | [root@mtheath lib]# rpm -e gnome-panel |
| 01:11.06 | mheath | /var/tmp/rpm-tmp.14280: line 2: gconftool-2: command not found |
| 01:11.06 | mheath | /var/tmp/rpm-tmp.14280: line 3: gconftool-2: command not found |
| 01:11.09 | mheath | error: %preun(gnome-panel-2.16.0-4.fc6.x86_64) scriptlet failed, exit status 127 |
| 01:12.38 | Tene | mheath: yum is fine if you remove it with rpm |
| 01:12.47 | Tene | mheath: rpm -q gnome-panel |
| 01:12.54 | Tene | is it really still installed? |
| 01:13.13 | Tene | if so, rpm -q --noscripts gnome-panel |
| 01:13.16 | Tene | erm |
| 01:13.24 | Tene | rpm -e --noscripts gnome-panel |
| 01:15.00 | mheath | yeah, found that right before you said it |
| 01:15.13 | mheath | [root@mtheath lib]# rpm -q gnome-panel |
| 01:15.13 | mheath | package gnome-panel is not installed |
| 01:15.16 | mheath | woot |
| 01:15.29 | Tene | sweet |
| 01:15.31 | mheath | lets try another yum update |
| 01:16.38 | mheath | woot, doesn't want to install anything new for dependencies |
| 01:16.44 | mheath | except for busybox for some reason O;op |
| 01:16.46 | mheath | O.o * |
| 01:17.43 | mheath | Now all I gotta worry about is what stuff the yum update will break :P |
| 01:19.45 | Tene | mheath: I just updated from old F7 all the way to current development and nothing broke. |
| 01:20.07 | mheath | this is FC6... |
| 01:20.21 | mheath | I'd like to upgrade to FC7, but I think a LOT of things would break |
| 01:20.25 | Tene | mheath: this laptop hasn't been reinstalled since FC6 |
| 01:20.32 | Tene | I updated it to F7 via yum. |
| 01:20.36 | Tene | Same with my desktop. |
| 01:21.05 | mheath | Not sure I trust yum or rpm anymore :P |
| 01:22.02 | Tene | You're the one that installed gnome-panel, not it. ;) |
| 01:22.28 | mheath | No, I didn't install gnome-panel |
| 01:22.38 | mheath | IIRC, the thing had a bunch of desktop software on it to begin with |
| 01:22.39 | mheath | I removed a lot |
| 01:22.49 | mheath | Guess I missed gnome-panel somewhere |
| 01:22.53 | mheath | *somehow |
| 01:24.57 | mheath | I need to restart a lot of processes... |
| 01:25.04 | mheath | I don't want to reboot, though :P |
| 01:25.14 | mheath | I'm proud, this is the first production server I've had |
| 01:25.18 | mheath | 120 days of uptime today |
| 01:25.42 | mheath | stupid, but I'm happy :P |
| 01:28.11 | mheath | Tene: do you know how Fedora handles kernel upgrades? |
| 01:28.24 | mheath | If yum updates the kernel, does the new one get used automatically? |
| 01:28.49 | Tene | mheath: Yes, the new one is set to boot automatically, and the previous one is left in the bootloader config as an alternate. |
| 01:29.05 | Tene | mheath: one thing that helps, I've found, is to separately update yum to the latest release before everything else. |
| 01:32.16 | mheath | Tene: do you know of a guide to update from FC6 to FC7? |
| 01:32.39 | mheath | I find very little information about it on the net... |
| 01:33.35 | Tene | mheath: all I did was install F7's fedora-release package, update yum, then 'yum upgrade' |
| 01:35.05 | mheath | 7-3 |
| 01:35.11 | mheath | xeon is x86_64, correct? |
| 01:35.57 | Tene | I think so. |
| 01:45.39 | Estwald | mheath: See http://fedora-tutorials.com/2007/07/02/fedora-7-how-do-i-love-thee/ About upgrading FC6 to FC7 and how smoothly it goes. |
| 01:47.21 | mheath | Estwald: cool, and I hope it works OK |
| 01:47.25 | mheath | but please remember |
| 01:47.46 | mheath | "cool, the upgrade worked well on my laptop" != The upgrade went well on a server that resides far away, that you only have remote access to |
| 01:49.58 | Estwald | mheath: looking at it from the point that laptops have usually been "problem childern" in linux it is promiseing though. |
| 01:51.12 | mheath | ~lart CNN Sports/SI.com |
| 01:51.12 | ibot | takes a rusty axe and swings it violently, taking CNN Sports/SI.com's head off |
| 01:51.36 | mheath | Saying some athlete who ran a sprint with prosthetic legs ran it "well behind" the guy who won (ran it two seconds behind!) |
| 01:53.04 | Estwald | *Chuckle* |
| 01:53.22 | Tene | depending on the length of the sprint, 2 seconds could be quite a bit |
| 01:56.32 | mheath | Tene: 400 meter. |
| 01:56.54 | mheath | this is scary |
| 01:56.57 | Tene | mheath: what was the total running time? |
| 01:57.13 | mheath | its taking an insanely long time to even create the transaction set |
| 01:57.19 | mheath | and it errored out, with "unavailable packages" |
| 01:57.50 | Tene | mheath: something a bit safer is to run 'yum check-update' and save that to a file, and then update packages in smaller related sets. |
| 01:59.05 | mheath | Error: Package mkinitrd needs libparted-1.8.so.2, this is not available. |
| 01:59.05 | mheath | Bunch of errors about my cyrus-sasl mail stuff.. |
| 01:59.16 | mheath | mkinitrd also wants nash = 5.1.19.0.3-1 |
| 02:00.17 | mheath | Tene: will first I'm going to try a yum update yum... |
| 02:00.22 | mheath | I ignored your advice at first =\ |
| 02:01.39 | mheath | errors, again |
| 02:01.47 | mheath | Error: Unable to satisfy dependencies |
| 02:01.47 | mheath | Error: Package pam conflicts with db4 >= 4.4.0. |
| 02:01.47 | mheath | Error: Package libuser needs python(abi) = 2.4, this is not available. |
| 02:01.47 | mheath | Error: Package cracklib needs python(abi) = 2.4, this is not available. |
| 02:01.53 | Tene | hmm |
| 02:02.08 | Tene | are you using 'update' or 'upgrade', btw? |
| 02:02.17 | mheath | update |
| 02:02.36 | Tene | 'upgrade' has slightly different algorithm, better for upgrading. |
| 02:06.22 | mheath | oh, great, some of the output is suggesting its going to want to install X stuff again |
| 02:06.26 | mheath | and, it errored out again -.- |
| 02:06.55 | Tene | :( |
| 02:13.17 | mheath | woot |
| 02:21.30 | *** join/#utah tristanbob (n=tristanb@oalug/member/tristanbob) |
| 02:37.18 | mheath | Grr. |
| 02:41.24 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@c-76-23-34-128.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 02:41.42 | elg | -lart emcnabb |
| 02:47.21 | mheath | Think I might have gotten it to work |
| 02:47.31 | mheath | I had to temporarily uninstall my kernel, but we're OK :P |
| 02:52.19 | mheath | Woot, dependencies resolved correctly |
| 02:52.26 | Tene | yay! |
| 03:08.36 | mheath | WTF |
| 03:08.49 | mheath | now I'm getting complaints during an upgrade that a new packages files conflicts with an old packages? |
| 03:08.53 | mheath | Of course it does? |
| 03:08.56 | mheath | O.o |
| 03:09.00 | Tene | details? |
| 03:09.07 | mheath | just a sec |
| 03:09.26 | Tene | kk |
| 03:11.08 | mheath | Transaction Check Error: file /usr/bin/msql2mysql from install of mysql-5.0.37-2.fc7 conflicts with file from package mysql-5.0.27-1.fc6 file /usr/bin/mysql_find_rows from install of mysql-5.0.37-2.fc7 conflicts with file from package mysql-5.0.27-1.fc6 file /usr/bin/mysqlaccess from install of mysql-5.0.37-2.fc7 conflicts with file from package mysql-5.0.27-1.fc6 |
| 03:11.14 | mheath | etc |
| 03:11.48 | Tene | huh |
| 03:11.54 | Tene | and what command is giving you this error? |
| 03:12.05 | mheath | yum update / yum upgrade (result of the two is the same |
| 03:12.09 | mheath | mysql isn't necessary for anything |
| 03:12.12 | mheath | I'm going to temporarily remove it |
| 03:12.14 | elg | why are you trying to have both versions of the package installed at once? |
| 03:12.20 | mheath | I'm not |
| 03:12.32 | elg | odd |
| 03:12.32 | mheath | elg: I'm telling it to UPGRADE, and its complaining that the new version to install conflicts with the old |
| 03:12.51 | mheath | ~lart the VA |
| 03:12.51 | ibot | judo chops the VA |
| 03:12.59 | mheath | I'm so confused.. |
| 03:13.08 | mheath | by so many things right now |
| 03:13.15 | mheath | and it doesn't help that I'm trying to multitask.. |
| 03:13.42 | mheath | anyway, while this next attempt runs.... |
| 03:13.48 | mheath | Anyone here check out SkyOS before? |
| 03:13.54 | mheath | Its not open source, but it looks pretty cool |
| 03:14.26 | sontek | if I had to guess, you probably have different repos both enabled that have different versions of mysql packaged |
| 03:15.01 | mheath | sontek: nah |
| 03:15.06 | mheath | Its not a dependency or version problem |
| 03:15.14 | mheath | It resolves dependencies and everything |
| 03:15.23 | mheath | Only shows one mysql to isntall |
| 03:15.36 | mheath | Transaction Check Error: file /etc/esd.conf from install of esound-libs-0.2.38-2.fc7 conflicts with file from package esound-0.2.36-3 file /usr/share/man/man1/esd.1.gz from install of esound-0.2.38-2.fc7 conflicts with file from package esound-0.2.36-3 |
| 03:15.40 | mheath | grrr |
| 03:16.11 | mheath | so, yeah, skyOS... |
| 03:16.13 | elg | i think you have deeper problems than that |
| 03:16.16 | mheath | it really does look pretty cool |
| 03:16.32 | elg | uninstalling will just delay the inevitable system collapse |
| 03:16.38 | mheath | elg: I have a broken system right now, of course. |
| 03:16.48 | mheath | I have a FC6 system with FC7 repos at the moment |
| 03:17.00 | mheath | and an old yum |
| 03:17.36 | elg | well all I can do is chuckle. good luck |
| 03:17.38 | mheath | My _hope_ is that, after everything gets updated, the problems will be fixed |
| 03:17.49 | mheath | elg: Chuckle at fedora, not me. I didn't do anything |
| 03:17.52 | elg | not all the problems. you'll still be running fedora core |
| 03:18.01 | mheath | Except follow the "simple" and "trouble free" upgrade instructions |
| 03:18.06 | elg | yes, i'm chuckling at fedora |
| 03:18.24 | elg | more specifically, yum and rpm |
| 03:18.28 | mheath | elg: Its a VPS. I've bothered the place a lot to give other distro options :P |
| 03:18.47 | mheath | woot |
| 03:18.52 | mheath | "Transaction Test Succeeded" |
| 03:19.03 | mheath | Running Transaction now :) |
| 03:20.09 | Tene | elg: no, Fedora 7 dropped the 'core' identifier, so he won't still be running "Fedora Core" |
| 03:20.19 | elg | ;-) |
| 03:21.06 | mheath | Updating : glibc-common ##################### [ 4/965]Updating : glibc-common ##################### [ 4/965] |
| 03:21.11 | mheath | this could take a while... |
| 03:22.59 | mheath | No one here has played with SkyOS? |
| 03:23.14 | mheath | Its $30 for a Beta license that gurantees you a copy of the final release |
| 03:23.15 | Tene | Not that I know of. I've never heard anyone mentioning using it in here before. |
| 03:23.24 | mheath | I'm thinking about getting that |
| 03:23.34 | mheath | Its quite capable |
| 03:23.47 | mheath | But the only thing I don't understand is where they get their developers from |
| 03:23.52 | mheath | Its commercial |
| 03:24.06 | mheath | But they can't possibly be getting enough money for one time $30 fee and tiny userbase to pay a development team |
| 03:24.12 | elg | they probably pay them |
| 03:24.23 | elg | vc money maybe |
| 03:24.26 | mheath | yet it seems relatively complete |
| 03:24.29 | mheath | elg: vc? |
| 03:24.35 | elg | venture capitalist |
| 03:24.39 | mheath | ah |
| 03:24.42 | elg | or, they may just be paying a good marketer |
| 03:24.55 | mheath | elg: yeah, but AFAIK, its an old project... |
| 03:25.05 | mheath | Started in 2002 |
| 03:25.10 | elg | that's old? |
| 03:25.14 | mheath | and still has yet to release a decent, complete, official release |
| 03:25.31 | mheath | elg: A five year old continuously developed commercial application that has yet to be released? Yeah, thats old. |
| 03:25.35 | elg | 2002 is new |
| 03:25.42 | elg | no, that's not old |
| 03:27.45 | mheath | http://www.skyos.org/images/w.png |
| 03:27.47 | mheath | I do like the GUI |
| 03:32.35 | mheath | cool |
| 03:33.11 | mheath | finished the upgrade |
| 03:33.14 | mheath | new, upgraded yum |
| 03:33.18 | mheath | dependencies and things are working well now |
| 03:34.01 | Tene | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFAh-pgxGyc |
| 03:37.46 | mheath | Tene: what is that? |
| 03:41.11 | Tene | mheath: read the descriptiong |
| 03:41.29 | Tene | alternately, ask a more specific question |
| 03:49.20 | mheath | sounds cool.. |
| 03:49.30 | mheath | But I'm confused about what they mean by programming language |
| 03:49.44 | mheath | Is this kinda a modern superpowerful equivelent to Midi? |
| 03:52.52 | *** join/#utah TimRiker (n=timr@rikers.org) |
| 03:52.52 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 03:54.43 | mheath | *fingers |
| 03:59.07 | *** join/#utah mheath (n=mheath@166-70-208-21.ip.xmission.com) |
| 03:59.07 | mheath | woot |
| 03:59.17 | mheath | Linux mtheath.net 2.6.20-2925.11.fc7xen #1 SMP Mon Jun 11 16:18:59 EDT 2007 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux |
| 04:22.07 | *** part/#utah klys (n=root@72.8.101.65) |
| 04:40.31 | levi_home | elg: ping |
| 04:43.29 | elg | pong |
| 04:52.39 | levi_home | elg: I've got a minimal asterisk setup going. |
| 04:52.44 | Tene | levi: nice |
| 04:52.51 | levi_home | elg: And I read the whole non-reference portion of the book. |
| 04:52.56 | elg | fun |
| 04:53.04 | elg | now you're in |
| 04:53.11 | levi_home | I now understand why you wanted to hack another language into it. :) |
| 04:53.17 | elg | :) |
| 04:54.28 | levi_home | Man, the dialplan language is one big kludge. |
| 04:54.48 | levi_home | I can only hope that it got that way through evolution rather than design. |
| 04:54.49 | elg | i'm pretty sure it's a sign of the apocalypse |
| 04:54.52 | mheath | wow, this upgrade worked pretty well |
| 04:55.47 | levi_home | It almost makes me want to go through all the protocol drivers and rewrite the glue that hooks them together. ;) |
| 04:56.43 | levi_home | Of course, I have about the same level of motivation to do that as I do for ideas like building a Ruby compiler for the Strongtalk VM. |
| 04:58.27 | levi_home | Anyway, aside from the dialplan language, asterisk is way cool. It should be powering my home VoIP phone by next week. |
| 04:59.06 | elg | awesome |
| 05:17.55 | levi_home | Are you doing anything clever with it? |
| 05:17.55 | levi_home | Hmm, I wonder if I could get rid of the little bit of choppiness by using rlimits. |
| 05:17.55 | elg | nothing extremely clever, but cleverer than you can get with regular answering machines, etc. |
| 05:17.55 | elg | probably the cleverest thing I do is it notifies me by jabber when someone calls (with caller id info) |
| 05:17.55 | elg | that entirely depends on the reason for the choppiness |
| 05:17.55 | elg | off to bed now |
| 05:17.55 | Sargun | levi, I like the dial-plan language, except it gets nasty when you try to do anything complex with it. Another reason why I love AGI. |
| 05:17.56 | levi_home | Sargun: Go study some computer science for a while, and then come back and see if it doesn't offend your sensibilities. |
| 05:17.56 | Sargun | AGI or the dial plan language? |
| 05:21.10 | levi_home | The dial plan language |
| 05:26.53 | Sargun | The Dial Plan language is made for people to do easy build and design. |
| 05:27.04 | Sargun | Whereas you use AGI for anything complec. |
| 05:27.05 | Sargun | complex. |
| 05:30.07 | levi_home | I'm not saying it doesn't work well for simple stuff. I'm saying it's a big kludge. If you like it, then it is my opinion that you have poor taste, but that's fine. |
| 05:34.25 | fozzmoo | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nWDCiFiq2o |
| 05:37.22 | mheath | So |
| 05:37.28 | mheath | postfix won't start properly... |
| 05:37.29 | mheath | hmmm |
| 06:57.19 | *** join/#utah klys (n=admini@72.8.101.65) |
| 08:08.19 | *** join/#utah ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) |
| 08:08.19 | *** topic/#utah is The channel for content free discussion in Utah | http://plug.org/irc | Utah Open Source Conference - September 6-8, 2007 - https://register.utosc.org |
| 08:08.19 | *** mode/#utah [+o ibot] by ChanServ |
| 08:08.29 | sontek | yay! |
| 08:08.33 | sontek | ~simpsons herlo |
| 08:08.34 | ibot | ACTION herlo chases a rolling pink donut down the hill screaming, "its still good!, its still good!" |
| 11:24.21 | *** join/#utah klys (n=admini@72.8.101.65) |
| 12:11.56 | *** join/#utah ^Migs^ (n=migs@205.122.50.69) |
| 12:50.34 | *** part/#utah klys (n=admini@72.8.101.65) |
| 12:59.35 | *** join/#utah klys (n=admini@72.8.101.65) |
| 13:03.50 | *** join/#utah ^Migs^ (n=migs@205.122.50.69) |
| 13:11.05 | *** join/#utah bonez39 (n=scott@c-71-195-243-49.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 13:12.02 | bonez39 | anyone know how to resolve a NO_Pubkey error...when running apt-get update? I get that error for ftp.us.postgresql.org and a search for the key named ...turns up NOTHING |
| 13:15.07 | *** join/#utah thaddeusq (n=thaddeus@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com) |
| 13:30.40 | *** join/#utah ^Migs^ (n=migs@205.122.50.69) |
| 13:30.49 | herlo | ibot: no, simpsons $1 is <action> sends $1 chasing a rolling pink donut down the hill screaming, "its still good!, its still good!" |
| 13:30.50 | ibot | herlo: okay |
| 13:36.32 | jsmith | Morning herlo |
| 13:37.00 | bonez39 | how does one find the repository maintainer for a package? |
| 13:37.33 | jsmith | If it's an RPM, it's usually listed in the output of rpm -i <package_name> |
| 13:38.35 | bonez39 | jsmith: it's .deb package... |
| 13:40.07 | jsmith | bonez39: No clue then... although I'll bet there's some switch you can pass to dpgk or apt-cache to get the info |
| 13:43.06 | bonez39 | ok |
| 13:44.22 | *** join/#utah ^Migs^ (n=migs@205.122.50.69) |
| 13:46.56 | *** join/#utah mrpull- (n=misterpu@mail.pollmann.us) |
| 13:53.15 | herlo | jsmith: hey |
| 13:53.45 | herlo | bonez39: as I heard this week, .deb pkgs apparently don't have that in their -i option |
| 13:54.38 | bonez39 | herlo: ...I had this trouble a few months ago, when running apt-get..getting this error... |
| 13:55.49 | *** join/#utah ^Migs^ (n=migs@205.122.50.69) |
| 13:55.52 | *** join/#utah Migs (n=migs@205.122.50.69) |
| 13:58.36 | *** join/#utah ^Migs^ (n=migs@205.122.50.69) |
| 13:58.42 | ^Migs^ | GAH |
| 13:59.01 | ^Migs^ | My keyboard stops working after 3 minutes of starting up X server |
| 14:05.24 | teabeer | bonez39: apt-cache show <packagename> |
| 14:06.05 | teabeer | or do you only have the .deb file? |
| 14:08.55 | teabeer | dpkg -I <packagefile.deb> would work if so |
| 14:11.06 | bonez39 | teabeer: thanks....found the maintainer and just emailed him now |
| 14:11.25 | bonez39 | dpkg -l gnupg did NOT work, but apa-cache show did.... |
| 14:12.06 | teabeer | that's a capital 'i' |
| 14:12.12 | bonez39 | ah..ok.. |
| 14:12.17 | teabeer | :) |
| 14:13.41 | bonez39 | weird..I run dpkg -l gnupg and it shows version 1.4.6-2 with 'ii' tag at front...installed? but dpkg -I gnupg shows No such file or directory |
| 14:13.53 | teabeer | oh, and good morning #utah, nice to meet you |
| 14:14.14 | teabeer | bonez39: you'd need to run it on the .deb file itself.. probably in /var/cache/apt/archives |
| 14:16.21 | teabeer | ...for the dpkg -I to work... that extracts it from the package file itself, not from the cache (like apt-cache does) |
| 14:22.22 | *** join/#utah ccjoe (n=ccjoe@c-67-166-125-22.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 14:25.45 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@c-76-23-34-128.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 14:34.38 | *** join/#utah beandog (n=sdibb@gentoo/developer/beandog) |
| 14:37.03 | *** join/#utah sinuhe (n=sinuhe@66.60.228.140) |
| 14:39.04 | elg | is there anything like vnc for windows (xp) that lets you use the computer remotely while someone else is using it? |
| 14:39.09 | elg | i.e. multiuser |
| 14:39.22 | elg | I think not, but maybe I'm just biased and/or pessimistic |
| 14:41.02 | jsmith | elg: There are plenty of good VNC servers for Windows... or you can use the Microsoft solution... RDC |
| 14:46.44 | tensai | elg: yes it's possible using RDP. that's the only way I ever use Windows any more. how many concurrent sessions you can have depends on the version of windows. |
| 14:47.46 | tensai | XP Pro will allow you just one. 2k or 2k3 server will allow 2, plus the console. you can also turn on terminal services somehow any get more connections, but you also have to fork out the dough for each license. |
| 14:47.56 | tensai | I'm not sure on the details. I try to stay away from them. |
| 14:50.45 | *** join/#utah wps (n=wps@64.0.193.88) |
| 14:51.32 | tensai | s/any/and/ |
| 14:51.38 | *** join/#utah tuple (n=fugalh@c-76-23-34-128.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 14:51.38 | ibot | tickles tuple with a rose bush |
| 14:54.34 | klys | elg: do you have home or pro? |
| 15:01.31 | tuple | don't know - I think they have pro |
| 15:01.52 | tuple | jsmith: well with vnc you get the screen of the logged in user |
| 15:02.21 | jsmith | elg: Oh, you mean like Terminal Services type madness? |
| 15:09.29 | *** join/#utah fungus (n=olsonl@2001:5c0:8fff:fffe:0:0:0:1647) |
| 15:12.10 | elg | i suppose. like nx works on linux servers |
| 15:15.41 | elg | tensai: I made my bread in dutch ovens this weekend |
| 15:16.04 | tensai | elg: how did it go? |
| 15:17.30 | elg | you mean apart from miscalculating the water by 40%, running out of flour, having to make a run 30 miles to the nearest store to get more flour, and finding out that 5 lbs wasn't quite enough more flour to correct the problem? pretty good |
| 15:17.55 | elg | the end result was really wet, but usable dough - kind of like ciabatta |
| 15:18.30 | elg | had the ovens at 400°-450° and took them off the bottom coals after half an hour to avoid scorching the bottom |
| 15:18.49 | elg | you get more brown on the top (and bottom of course) than on the sides, but the bread turns out fine |
| 15:19.15 | elg | i preheated the oven for 5 minutes or so, I think that also helps in not scorching the bottom |
| 15:19.36 | elg | I'll blog the whole thing in gory detail, if you don't let me forget |
| 15:19.45 | jsmith | Sounds delicious... |
| 15:20.08 | elg | oh, and I forgot to adjust the salt for that extra 5 pounds of flour too, so it was a bit bland |
| 15:20.16 | elg | everyone loved it, but to me it was a disaster :) |
| 15:21.33 | *** join/#utah neybar (n=jalance@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 15:21.41 | elg | my dad did sourdough biscuits that turned out really well too |
| 15:26.19 | levi | elg: Cool. :) |
| 15:27.14 | *** join/#utah TimRiker (n=timr@216.49.181.128) |
| 15:27.14 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 15:28.24 | elg | i also got a lot of experience in dutch ovening. we managed the coals for just about all the ovens - 5 lasagnas, 4 cobblers, 2 sourdough biscuits and 4 breads |
| 15:28.42 | elg | so i became an inadvertent expert |
| 15:28.48 | levi | Wow, that's a lot of dutch ovens. |
| 15:29.09 | elg | i'll tell ya, "slaving over a hot stove" has nothing on slaving over hot dutch ovens in broad daylight |
| 15:29.23 | elg | at least we were at 9000 ft |
| 15:30.42 | levi | My wife and I use them frequently on campouts. Did you find you had to use a lot of extra charcoal over the standard recommendations? |
| 15:30.43 | tensai | were you in an airplane? maybe we should mention this little even to the FAA... |
| 15:31.36 | elg | levi: for the bread? no, not really. for 12" I think we had about 10 on bottom and 20 on top. maybe 11/22 |
| 15:31.48 | elg | which was what the book said for 400 or 450 or something |
| 15:31.55 | levi | Ahh, okay. |
| 15:34.26 | elg | we did a test at home before the reunion and aimed a little higher than 450 and got burnage. I think the reasons were twofold though, the bread rose high and touched the top, and there's lots of coals on the top |
| 15:34.41 | elg | and we were using some generic brand coals that claimed to be "60% bigger" |
| 15:35.10 | elg | still, I think you don't need the 500° you would shoot for in an oven (where the only heat transfer is from air to metal, not coals to metal) |
| 15:36.51 | levi | That's probably true. |
| 15:37.48 | *** join/#utah fozzmoo (n=fozz@166-70-238-250.ip.xmission.com) |
| 15:39.02 | elg | interesting http://www.nomachine.com/documentation/html/admin-guide.html#9 |
| 15:39.20 | elg | I didn't realize you could do vnc-like sharing of the main X display in NX |
| 15:39.26 | elg | that will come in handy for my media center |
| 15:39.40 | levi | elg: What are you using for your media center? |
| 15:39.50 | beandog | media center? |
| 15:40.07 | beandog | have you seen the prices dropping on the 750g harddrives? sheesh |
| 15:40.22 | levi | Those would be nice for a media center. :) |
| 15:40.37 | levi | Then I could record HD content. |
| 15:41.00 | elg | shh, don't tell, but I use my web/mail/ldap/jabber/vpn/firewall/dns/everything else under the sun server as a media center too |
| 15:41.10 | elg | hooked up to the TV, using freevo |
| 15:41.35 | beandog | ah, freevo |
| 15:41.39 | beandog | I was wrestling with that all weekend. |
| 15:41.41 | elg | beandog: btw, I haven't read your posts on freevo and lirc in detail yet, nor do I remember the details of what I did, but I know I fought with it too at one point |
| 15:41.48 | elg | I might have just given up |
| 15:42.15 | elg | or I might have found a way to get freevo to relinquish control while mplayer was running |
| 15:42.15 | beandog | freevo just basically tries to tell you: ignore all your config options for the original programs, we'll re-create them for you. |
| 15:42.18 | elg | I don't remember |
| 15:42.34 | beandog | elg: I told freevo my mplayer binary was a wrapper script, then I stripped out all the crap it added in. |
| 15:42.37 | fozzmoo | I wonder why prices on 750s are dropping. |
| 15:42.48 | elg | beandog: nice :) |
| 15:42.54 | beandog | mplayer-resume++ |
| 15:42.56 | beandog | :D |
| 15:43.21 | levi | elg: How do you like freevo vs. mythtv? |
| 15:43.32 | fozzmoo | I mean, usually prices drop because demand for the next bigger drive increases. |
| 15:43.43 | fozzmoo | But there really isn't much above 750 yet. |
| 15:43.48 | *** join/#utah ^Migs^ (n=migs@205.122.50.69) |
| 15:43.51 | beandog | there are terabyte drives |
| 15:43.53 | beandog | but they cost $800 |
| 15:43.57 | beandog | oddly enough. |
| 15:44.00 | fozzmoo | beandog: Yeah. NewEgg has 1. |
| 15:44.05 | fozzmoo | And it's only $380 |
| 15:44.09 | levi | So, how much are the 750s now? |
| 15:44.13 | fozzmoo | ~$200 |
| 15:44.15 | beandog | I saw some for $180 |
| 15:44.17 | levi | Wow. |
| 15:44.27 | fozzmoo | But you can get a 500G for $100 |
| 15:44.44 | beandog | Right, but if you need to cram 8 drives in one box, you gotta maximize space |
| 15:44.55 | fozzmoo | Eh. Get an external. :) |
| 15:45.02 | fozzmoo | external enclosure. |
| 15:45.11 | levi | What do you need 10tb for?! |
| 15:45.17 | fozzmoo | media center, of course. :) |
| 15:45.19 | beandog | rip all my dvds |
| 15:45.38 | elg | levi: I've never used myth. I chose freevo because I wanted something simple and it was my impression that myth was anything but. I don't have anything to record, I'm just playing back stuff I downloaded, and freevo looked simpler |
| 15:45.45 | elg | though I've seen myth demos and myth looks very cool |
| 15:45.53 | beandog | for simple playback, freevo works great. |
| 15:45.59 | beandog | if you want a nice PVR, use myth. |
| 15:46.28 | levi | Anyone have HDTV card recommendations? |
| 15:46.32 | beandog | pchdtv |
| 15:46.36 | beandog | 5500 |
| 15:46.48 | beandog | there is no other card worth mentioning |
| 15:47.02 | beandog | besides, its a Utah business, how can you resist that! |
| 15:48.27 | levi | That's what I was considering, but I couldn't really tell from forums and wikis how well it actually worked with MythTV. |
| 15:49.07 | *** join/#utah ^Migs^ (n=migs@205.122.50.69) |
| 15:49.35 | beandog | just like any other TV card. |
| 15:50.02 | ^Migs^ | what's a good way to play videos from my laptop on my TV? |
| 15:50.09 | ^Migs^ | is there a USB-to-A/V cable? |
| 15:50.26 | levi | There are VGA-to-A/V adapters. |
| 15:50.38 | ^Migs^ | but I need audio too |
| 15:50.43 | levi | Most laptops come with one, or have a standard accessory you can buy to do it. |
| 15:51.15 | levi | Then you get a headphone-to-RCA converter cable. |
| 15:51.17 | ^Migs^ | I guess I could just use a separate adapter for audio |
| 15:51.30 | ^Migs^ | I think I actually have one |
| 15:51.32 | levi | The only cable that carries both audio and video (that I'm aware of) is HDMI. |
| 15:51.50 | elg | yeah, you want to take audio from the sound card and video from the video out, not go through usb |
| 15:52.17 | *** part/#utah ^Migs^ (n=migs@205.122.50.69) |
| 15:52.30 | levi | Maybe he pulled the wrong cable... |
| 15:52.43 | findlay | someday we'll have optical cables that carry all of that and more |
| 15:53.32 | *** join/#utah ^Migs^ (n=migs@205.122.50.69) |
| 15:53.38 | ^Migs^ | okay |
| 15:54.39 | elg | someday we'll have optical cables that carry you by your neck |
| 15:54.57 | ^Migs^ | like a kitten? |
| 15:55.38 | jsmith | elg: In Soviet Russia, your neck would carry the optical cables! |
| 15:56.01 | ^Migs^ | ~jsmith-- |
| 15:56.02 | *** join/#utah decriptor (i=decripto@nat/novell/x-7e12db1e5ddc0ce2) |
| 15:56.05 | elg | in Soviet Russia, the kitten carries ^Migs^ |
| 15:57.03 | beandog | well you do have optical for audio |
| 15:57.06 | beandog | SPDIF |
| 15:57.29 | beandog | thats how you get the best sound on a mythbox, send it straight to your receiver |
| 15:57.46 | beandog | assuming youre watching ripped DVDs with Dolby / DTS |
| 15:58.19 | klys | could someone reccommend a palm device? |
| 15:58.34 | klys | someone is asking me and I don't know |
| 15:58.51 | klys | s/reccomend/recommend/ |
| 15:59.10 | levi | Like, an actual PalmOS device or just a handheld PDA? |
| 15:59.17 | klys | with palmos on it |
| 15:59.18 | levi | PalmOS is pretty near the end of its life. |
| 15:59.25 | levi | I'm not sure I could really recommend it. |
| 15:59.29 | klys | ok |
| 15:59.36 | klys | what's better though? |
| 15:59.51 | levi | I guess it depends on the intended usage. |
| 16:00.17 | levi | The only real alternative is a WinCE device, or whatever they're calling it these days. |
| 16:00.23 | levi | My wife has a Dell Axim and really likes it. |
| 16:00.42 | klys | he wants wifi, and likes the treo750 |
| 16:00.56 | klys | of course, that dosn't have 802.11 |
| 16:01.16 | levi | Treos are nice, but PalmOS really sucks when it comes to multitasking. |
| 16:01.40 | levi | It was a revolutionary PDA for its day, but it's not really a very good handheld computer platform. |
| 16:02.19 | ^Migs^ | I'm just watching TV episodes, and streaming video off Netflix |
| 16:05.03 | klys | levi: are you aware of any pda with embedded linux? |
| 16:05.12 | beandog | ^Migs^: so whats on tv |
| 16:05.15 | klys | or dos even |
| 16:05.20 | ^Migs^ | Lost |
| 16:05.30 | levi | There's the Zaurus, but I don't think they have any recent domestic offerings. |
| 16:05.44 | ^Migs^ | and I'm getting tired of just watching it off my laptop |
| 16:05.53 | levi | Some of the Japanese import Zaurus handhelds are amazing, though. |
| 16:06.05 | levi | There may be some others as well; I haven't really kept up. |
| 16:10.46 | elg | haha! it does work. |
| 16:11.49 | elg | i doubt watching video over nx will be satisfactory, of course, but it will come in handy when I need to have a little more control than lirc gives me |
| 16:13.30 | *** join/#utah Lakshmi_ (n=chatzill@adsl-69-109-164-8.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 16:17.05 | *** join/#utah tiwula (n=lane@195.sub-166-161-154.myvzw.com) |
| 16:18.31 | rsimpkins | Does anyone have any fun/simple disk benchmark methods - preferably not bonnie++? |
| 16:18.57 | rsimpkins | I'm using dd - which is fine for sequential. I'd like to come up with a simple random IO test though. |
| 16:19.13 | fozzmoo | Why not bonnie? |
| 16:19.32 | rsimpkins | fozzmoo: I'll go there - but bonnie takes forever to run. |
| 16:19.42 | rsimpkins | Was hoping for a quicker - 'sanity check' method. |
| 16:19.52 | fozzmoo | freshmeat says piozone |
| 16:20.00 | fozzmoo | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:20.21 | rsimpkins | fozzmoo: Thanks, I'll check it out. |
| 16:20.24 | fozzmoo | np |
| 16:20.26 | fozzmoo | good luck |
| 16:28.44 | *** join/#utah markl (n=mark@c-24-10-214-91.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 16:41.38 | tensai | cool. looks like my company is switching to OOo from MS Office. |
| 16:47.55 | findlay | that's nice |
| 16:51.25 | findlay | rsimpkins: why is hdparm not what you're looking for (too low level/simplistic)? |
| 16:53.39 | rsimpkins | findlay: I need to do random writes - not sequential reads. |
| 16:54.01 | rsimpkins | fozzmoo: piozone doesn't test the fs, which I need to do. Looks like bonnie++ is about my only option. |
| 16:54.04 | findlay | oh |
| 16:54.20 | findlay | maybe bonnie# :-) |
| 16:54.33 | fozzmoo | rsimpkins: Sorry. |
| 16:54.55 | rsimpkins | fozzmoo: No worries - I suppose I could just write one myself... :) |
| 16:55.03 | findlay | you could make one that fits your needs and call it rsimpkins++ |
| 16:55.28 | fozzmoo | http://linuxgazette.net/102/piszcz.html |
| 16:55.29 | brac | [Benchmarking Filesystems LG #102] |
| 16:56.28 | fozzmoo | Might be some tools mentioned in there. |
| 16:56.38 | fozzmoo | Looks like they just took metrics from fairly atomic operations. |
| 17:01.49 | mheath | GOod morning! |
| 17:11.12 | findlay | HElo mheath! |
| 17:11.28 | findlay | ~helo |
| 17:11.36 | ibot | helo is probably the first command issued during smtp |
| 17:11.36 | mheath | ehlo, you mean |
| 17:11.40 | *** join/#utah Lakshmi__ (n=chatzill@adsl-69-109-119-111.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 17:14.13 | mheath | I got my server fully upgraded and working great, though! |
| 17:24.25 | *** join/#utah Lakshmi___ (n=chatzill@adsl-69-109-164-200.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 17:30.18 | ^Migs^ | http://www.reuters.com/article/oddlyEnoughNews/idUSL161097420070716 |
| 17:30.24 | ^Migs^ | BERLIN (Reuters) - A German bus driver threatened to throw a 20-year-old sales clerk off his bus in the southern town of Lindau because he said she was too sexy, a newspaper reported Monday. |
| 17:30.47 | *** join/#utah Lakshmi____ (n=chatzill@adsl-69-109-166-217.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 17:34.33 | *** join/#utah ScottLij (n=scott@24-180-196-49.dhcp.aldl.mi.charter.com) |
| 17:41.08 | *** part/#utah Lakshmi____ (n=chatzill@adsl-69-109-166-217.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 17:47.20 | *** join/#utah brando1 (n=brandon@64.58.232.130) |
| 17:48.14 | *** join/#utah TimRiker (n=timr@216.49.181.128) |
| 17:48.14 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 17:49.14 | findlay | ~lart uvsc |
| 17:49.14 | ibot | slaps uvsc upside the head with a wet fish |
| 17:49.26 | findlay | ~bzfrag uvsc |
| 17:49.26 | ibot | ACTION squishes uvsc with a steamroller |
| 17:49.53 | findlay | ~shoot uvsc |
| 17:49.54 | ibot | ACTION shoots uvsc in the eye with a spitwad! |
| 17:49.54 | findlay | ~nuke uvsc |
| 17:49.54 | ibot | ACTION prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at uvsc ... B☢☢M! |
| 17:50.52 | levi | findlay: Having problems? |
| 17:51.00 | findlay | levi: a few :) |
| 17:51.13 | levi | What sort? |
| 17:51.43 | findlay | I blame UVSC for trying to be a 'grown up' university by trying to affect a impersonal, careless attitude |
| 17:52.14 | findlay | that's quite a departure from the community college feel-good mentality it used to have |
| 17:52.24 | findlay | one of its few good qualities, now gone |
| 17:55.59 | *** join/#utah sjansen (n=sjansen@66.60.228.140) |
| 17:56.59 | findlay | sjansen: THANK YOU, regarding http://www.alistapart.com/ |
| 17:57.23 | elg | i never attended uvsc, but my impression from eavesdropping and shouldersurfing when my wife did was that uvsc was always a joke when it comes to administrivia |
| 17:57.39 | elg | the website never even came close to working. losing paperwork all the time. etc. |
| 17:57.54 | elg | if that's the "community college feel-good mentality" you're referring to... |
| 17:58.01 | findlay | no |
| 17:58.16 | findlay | I'm talking about people who care |
| 17:58.22 | findlay | they are few these days |
| 17:58.48 | elg | what does that have to do with uvsc? |
| 17:59.40 | findlay | well, I guess they had a chance to be better but didn't |
| 17:59.43 | mheath | I hate Universities |
| 17:59.49 | mheath | I need to go up to Weber State |
| 17:59.54 | mheath | and I can't figure out where I can park :P |
| 18:00.03 | ^Migs^ | yeah |
| 18:00.10 | ^Migs^ | give yourself at least 20 minutes to find a parking space |
| 18:00.17 | mheath | ^Migs^: No, not that |
| 18:00.26 | mheath | I mean, I need to go to an office up there today |
| 18:00.35 | findlay | elg: all I can say is that when I'm a professor I'll be different |
| 18:00.39 | mheath | And, as far as I can tell, theres no where on campus up there that I can park without a pass |
| 18:00.47 | ^Migs^ | pretty much, no |
| 18:00.52 | ^Migs^ | except after 4:30pm |
| 18:00.59 | ^Migs^ | then there's a few places |
| 18:00.59 | mheath | after 4:00 |
| 18:01.03 | ^Migs^ | 4:00 now? |
| 18:01.07 | mheath | you can park anywhere after 4:00 |
| 18:01.11 | mheath | but the place I need closes at 4:30 :P |
| 18:01.17 | ^Migs^ | except outside the social sciences building |
| 18:01.25 | ^Migs^ | they reserve the first two rows 24 hours a day for staff |
| 18:01.31 | levi | findlay: What people are you working with that don't care? |
| 18:01.41 | mheath | I'm not looking forward to the looks I'll get at the VA office up there |
| 18:01.54 | mheath | Giving them a DD-214 that says I was discharged for a "Personality Disorder" |
| 18:02.25 | findlay | levi: the math department and the computer department, mainly |
| 18:02.42 | findlay | except for one professor who knows me already |
| 18:03.09 | levi | findlay: I don't have any experience with the math department, but I've never had any trouble with people in the CS department. |
| 18:03.32 | mheath | I'm starting up at weber in a few weeks, and I'm really not looking forward to it. |
| 18:03.41 | levi | Unless things have gone completely downhill this semester. I'm taking this one off. |
| 18:03.47 | findlay | levi: my experinces at the CS department is that they were way too self-important and officious |
| 18:04.27 | levi | findlay: Who did you talk to there? |
| 18:04.50 | findlay | some random secretary and a couple of professors, I don't remember who |
| 18:05.13 | findlay | turned me off from ever desiring to learn anything from them |
| 18:06.12 | *** join/#utah sinuhe (n=sinuhe@66.60.228.140) |
| 18:06.58 | findlay | I even wrote a letter to president Sederburg about it :) |
| 18:07.18 | ^Migs^ | the WSU CS department is woefully inadequate compared to U of U |
| 18:07.41 | sjansen | findlay: when you'r a professor, you'll be publishing or perishing, the experience will make you so bitter you'll make people hum mozart before asking questions during your office hours |
| 18:07.42 | levi | findlay: What were you talking to them about? I haven't had any trouble with them. |
| 18:08.07 | findlay | levi: I don't remember, it was a couple of years ago |
| 18:08.11 | ^Migs^ | what's wrong with having "self-important and officious" professors? |
| 18:08.45 | findlay | ^Migs^: I don't like dealing with jerks, that's why :) |
| 18:08.45 | Tene | ^Migs^: too easy |
| 18:09.08 | ^Migs^ | is it wrong to have a positive outlook on yourself? |
| 18:09.34 | ^Migs^ | or wanting to offer assistance? |
| 18:09.58 | ^Migs^ | WSU has some awesome CS profs |
| 18:10.14 | findlay | ^Migs^: I don't like dealing with jerks |
| 18:10.14 | ^Migs^ | what's your schedule look like, mheath? |
| 18:10.22 | ^Migs^ | they probably don't like dealing with you either |
| 18:10.25 | sjansen | findlay: Then you shouldn't be academia. |
| 18:10.40 | sjansen | findlay: In fact, you probably won't enjoy industry much either. |
| 18:10.53 | sjansen | findlay: Have you considered life as a hermit? |
| 18:11.07 | findlay | yes, sjansen wants me to slave at GL for him for the rest of my working years, until I'm frazzled and burnt out |
| 18:11.15 | sjansen | Unfortunately, it isn't fashionable for rich people to sponsor hermit's anymore... |
| 18:12.20 | sjansen | I guess there's really only one option. Become a pundit, form your own reality, write news articles, ignore any criticism 'cause you're the pundit, not them. |
| 18:15.25 | sjansen | Him: "How ya doing?" |
| 18:15.29 | sjansen | Me: "Hey" |
| 18:15.34 | sjansen | Him: "Great." |
| 18:15.56 | sjansen | I'm pretty sure it wouldn't have made a difference. |
| 18:16.51 | Tene | Who is Him? |
| 18:17.13 | findlay | ~tene Him |
| 18:17.22 | Tene | ~findlay sjansen |
| 18:17.23 | ibot | ACTION recreationally nmaps sjansen. |
| 18:23.06 | ^Migs^ | lol, someone's keeping beer in the fridge here! |
| 18:23.29 | Tene | lol! |
| 18:25.20 | findlay | ~lol Tene |
| 18:26.54 | ^Migs^ | .__ .__ |
| 18:26.54 | ^Migs^ | | | ____ | | |
| 18:26.54 | ^Migs^ | | | / _ \| | |
| 18:26.54 | ^Migs^ | | |_( <_> ) |__ |
| 18:26.54 | ^Migs^ | |____/\____/|____/ |
| 18:34.37 | findlay | levi: for example, I called the math department asking about a specific professor. Not only did the secretary not give me the information I wanted (whether she knew or not I don't know) but in the space of a 30 conversation asked 'can I help you?' |
| 18:35.10 | findlay | three times |
| 18:35.20 | findlay | s/30/30 s/ |
| 18:35.23 | findlay | man |
| 18:36.49 | findlay | even the institute secretaries are rude |
| 18:37.31 | mheath | $10,000 |
| 18:37.36 | mheath | That's insane. |
| 18:38.31 | mheath | HHES concepts are just as useful, and you'd pay much, much less for a complete setup... |
| 18:38.47 | mheath | Base unit, 4-5 WTT's, home automation stuff...input devices |
| 18:40.19 | ^Migs^ | mheath: You should try and CLEP out of the basic CS stuff |
| 18:40.30 | ^Migs^ | seriously, you'll save a ton of money |
| 18:41.09 | mheath | ^Migs^: I will |
| 18:41.19 | mheath | Not certain I'm going CS, though |
| 18:41.36 | ^Migs^ | no |
| 18:41.39 | ^Migs^ | don't make the same mistake I did |
| 18:41.49 | ^Migs^ | I wasted time just exploring alternate majors |
| 18:41.59 | ^Migs^ | in reality I should've known I was always going to end up CS |
| 18:42.11 | mheath | ^Migs^: Uh, let me rephrase. I'm just working on generals right now, but I'm reasonably set on a major other than CS' |
| 18:42.18 | ^Migs^ | why? |
| 18:42.29 | ^Migs^ | don't want to sit behind a computer monitor the rest of your life? |
| 18:42.49 | mheath | Because it's linked with something I wanted to do and failed at, will pay insanely well, and is a booming field right now (much more so than CS)? |
| 18:42.55 | ^Migs^ | actually, the main reason I switched to CS was because I got married, and needed a stable job that I could make money in quickly |
| 18:43.05 | ^Migs^ | what is it? |
| 18:43.10 | mheath | Nuclear Engineerin |
| 18:43.13 | mheath | *Engineering |
| 18:43.27 | ^Migs^ | sounds boring |
| 18:43.48 | mheath | ^Migs^: yeah, but also has 3 digit starting salaries |
| 18:43.48 | ^Migs^ | I was a music major for a whole year |
| 18:43.50 | *** join/#utah jsmith-lunch (n=jsmith@000-204-279.area3.spcsdns.net) |
| 18:43.54 | mheath | And really good employment opportunities |
| 18:43.58 | mheath | erm |
| 18:44.00 | ^Migs^ | hahaha |
| 18:44.00 | mheath | 6 digit :P |
| 18:44.07 | ^Migs^ | yeah, I thought you meant that |
| 18:44.12 | ^Migs^ | is that with just a bachelor's degree? |
| 18:44.21 | mheath | My goals are lofty, I think in base-1,000, OK? ;-P |
| 18:44.26 | ^Migs^ | haha |
| 18:44.39 | mheath | Nah, its a Masters |
| 18:44.48 | ^Migs^ | oh |
| 18:44.50 | mheath | UoU doesn't have a nuke undergrad degree |
| 18:44.58 | ^Migs^ | but Weber does? |
| 18:45.05 | mheath | weber doesn't have anything :P |
| 18:45.34 | mheath | Just doing my generals at WSU, plan to transfer to UoU |
| 18:45.51 | mheath | UoU has a cool program. They even have a live nuclear reactor there. |
| 18:46.01 | mheath | 100kW TRIGA reactor. Tiny research thing, but still cool |
| 18:46.47 | mheath | How was lunch, jsmith? |
| 18:47.05 | jsmith | mheath: Delicious... calamari and stromboli |
| 18:47.15 | findlay | how was jsmith, lunch? |
| 18:47.23 | findlay | no fair |
| 18:47.42 | mheath | I miss being in SC...the galley there had delicious food for lunch |
| 18:47.56 | mheath | THere was several times where we had things like fresh lobster tails |
| 18:48.02 | mheath | And crab legs |
| 18:48.10 | mheath | and steak (though the steak was always well done, which sucked...) |
| 18:48.41 | mheath | I'm so pumped up about the HHES |
| 18:48.56 | mheath | I already have all the internal electronics for the WTT designed |
| 18:49.03 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@c-76-23-34-128.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 18:49.33 | mheath | WTT should be sub-$200 |
| 18:49.53 | mheath | Base unit will be $2-$3,000 |
| 18:53.20 | mheath | Software will be the biggest problem for it all :( |
| 19:07.52 | ^Migs^ | read this guy's bio: http://www.ojrnr.com/members/index.cfm?fuseaction=attorneyDetail&userID=84 |
| 19:09.28 | sjansen | Nice :-) |
| 19:10.16 | *** join/#utah Newsome (n=sorenson@adsl-68-22-220-206.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net) |
| 19:10.41 | sjansen | ^Migs^: So how'd you find the site? |
| 19:10.54 | ^Migs^ | other channel |
| 19:11.31 | ^Migs^ | I often share links back and forth. I'm the conduit. |
| 19:11.51 | ^Migs^ | the conduit between #utah and this other channel, that is |
| 19:13.06 | sjansen | A channel that remain nameless to ensure job security? Or because you're ashamed to admit you hangout in #omgponies? |
| 19:13.37 | sjansen | @seen ^Migs^ |
| 19:13.59 | ^Migs^ | there's an #omgponies channel?? |
| 19:14.16 | mheath | There is. |
| 19:14.17 | sjansen | ^Migs^ last seen 15 minutes ago in #omgponies saying "OMG!!!1 Ponies! I luv ponies!" |
| 19:14.25 | ^Migs^ | that sure sounds like me |
| 19:14.47 | ^Migs^ | now how did mheath get ops in #omgponies? |
| 19:14.48 | sjansen | ^Migs^ last seen 12 minutes ago in #omgkittens saying "My kitten is cuter." |
| 19:14.54 | findlay | ~sound like ^Migs^ |
| 19:14.55 | ^Migs^ | hahaha |
| 19:15.06 | sjansen | ^Migs^ last seen 9 minutes ago in #rainbow saying "Pretty" |
| 19:15.12 | mheath | 13:05 -!- ^Migs^ was kicked from #omgponies by mheath [you don't like ponies enough...] |
| 19:15.43 | sjansen | ^Migs^ last seen 7 minutes ago in #catart saying "Great idea! I'm going to dye my kitten pink too when I get home!" |
| 19:15.58 | ^Migs^ | PFFAFHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA |
| 19:16.07 | sjansen | ^Migs^ last seen 30 seconds ago in #censored saying "Chug! Chug! Chug! Chug!" |
| 19:16.38 | sjansen | ^Migs^ last seen 15 seconds ago in #utah saying "PFFAFHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA" |
| 19:17.45 | findlay | sjansen last seen in improv 1337 seconds ago in #improv saying "^Migs^: roll over! Play dead!" |
| 19:18.13 | sjansen | ~eat findlay |
| 19:18.14 | ibot | ACTION eats findlay and falls over dead |
| 19:18.36 | findlay | s/ in improv/ |
| 19:18.39 | findlay | s/ in improv// |
| 19:18.45 | findlay | indeed I did |
| 19:20.47 | mheath | I worked on a bunch of new sketches for the external appearance of the WTT-1 |
| 19:21.33 | ^Migs^ | MWAHAHAHA. I own #omgponies now! |
| 19:21.59 | mheath | Noooo! |
| 19:22.05 | findlay | haha |
| 19:22.10 | ^Migs^ | has anyone ever seen anyone put "IRC op" on their resume? |
| 19:22.29 | maquis | anyone else think the new 787 dreamliner is ugly? |
| 19:22.38 | Tene | I've seen someone put "Developer of a widely-used IRC server" on a resume. |
| 19:23.01 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@c-76-23-34-128.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 19:23.07 | mheath | maquis: Looks fine to me.. |
| 19:23.21 | *** join/#utah jaywalla (n=jay@65.103.247.238) |
| 19:23.30 | ^Migs^ | what did they mean by "developer?" |
| 19:23.33 | Tene | maquis: looks pretty mundane to me. Not particularly uglier than others. |
| 19:23.34 | ^Migs^ | they build new channels? |
| 19:23.48 | Tene | migs: no, worked on the server code. |
| 19:23.58 | ^Migs^ | OH |
| 19:24.15 | Tene | I think it was http://www.unrealircd.com/ but I'm not sure. |
| 19:24.18 | brac | [UnrealIRCd •» News/Announcements] |
| 19:24.22 | ^Migs^ | well that makes more sense |
| 19:24.36 | ^Migs^ | once I saw someone put "BBS Co-SysOp" on a resume |
| 19:24.41 | maquis | hrm... maybe the one that's sitting out on paine field is particularly ugly |
| 19:25.02 | maquis | hrm... the ones i'm seeing onlnine aren't nearly as ugly |
| 19:25.36 | findlay | my brother landed at Paine Field recently |
| 19:25.41 | findlay | he saw it too |
| 19:25.52 | maquis | aha |
| 19:26.11 | maquis | it was the 747 modified to hold the dreamliner parts... |
| 19:26.14 | maquis | it was hideous |
| 19:26.16 | mheath | ^Migs^: thats aweosome.. |
| 19:26.17 | findlay | heh |
| 19:26.49 | mheath | maquis: I'm sure you wouldn't be complaining if you were flying in first class on it :P |
| 19:28.40 | ^Migs^ | http://cgi.ebay.com/HP-XW4100-Workstation-P4-2-8Ghz-1024Mb-RAM_W0QQitemZ230150854305QQihZ013QQcategoryZ140072QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem |
| 19:28.46 | ^Migs^ | This HP WorkStation xw4100 is powered by an Intel Pentium 4 2.8 GHz processor, 1GB DDR RAM and SATA 250GB Seagate Drive. Listen to music CDs with the CD-ROM drive and load programs with the floppy drive! |
| 19:28.54 | ^Migs^ | OMG! LOAD PROGRAMS WITH THE FLOPPY DRIVE! |
| 19:29.00 | maquis | mheath: sure... |
| 19:29.19 | mheath | maquis: by the way, you work for amazon...quick question that maybe you can answer |
| 19:29.29 | maquis | mheath: feel free to msg it |
| 19:29.29 | mheath | Is there a way to report mismatched content? |
| 19:29.32 | maquis | oh |
| 19:29.40 | maquis | there should be something down at the bottom of the page |
| 19:29.41 | mheath | Wrong title, wrong pictures, etc. |
| 19:29.42 | maquis | let me see |
| 19:30.11 | mheath | Like....a preschool computer video game thats labeled as thumtacks :P |
| 19:30.21 | Newsome | those darn amazonians... |
| 19:30.27 | Newsome | er...did I say that out loud? |
| 19:30.35 | maquis | ~lart Newsome |
| 19:30.35 | ibot | hits Newsome with an anvil and laughs with a contralto voice ... Haha Ha HA Ha |
| 19:30.55 | mheath | Newsome: we should burn the amazon to the ground.. |
| 19:31.02 | ^Migs^ | Save the rainforest! |
| 19:31.14 | maquis | mheath: if you look at the bottom, there's a section called "Feedback" that lets you update product info, etc. |
| 19:31.23 | Newsome | easier to burn it to the ground than pouring money into it in a futile effort to save it! |
| 19:31.38 | mheath | heh |
| 19:32.35 | emcnabb | ~lart maquis |
| 19:32.35 | ibot | shoots maquis in his sleep |
| 19:32.43 | maquis | emcnabb: what was that for? |
| 19:32.45 | maquis | ~lart emcnabb |
| 19:32.45 | ibot | beats the living hamstercrap out of emcnabb |
| 19:32.52 | emcnabb | ~lart Newsome |
| 19:32.53 | ibot | raises middle finger to Newsome |
| 19:33.08 | emcnabb | ibot: wow, you're naughty these days |
| 19:33.13 | findlay | ~lart emcnabb with abandon |
| 19:33.13 | ibot | drops a baby grand on emcnabb with abandon |
| 19:33.38 | jsmith | maquis: Good point |
| 19:34.11 | findlay | gah! |
| 19:34.31 | Tene | ~marry findlay |
| 19:34.37 | Tene | ~marriage findlay |
| 19:34.49 | maquis | emcnabb: look what you started! |
| 19:34.56 | findlay | ~tene emcnabb |
| 19:35.05 | emcnabb | maquis: it wasn't me, it was ibot who acted up |
| 19:35.13 | mheath | Soo. |
| 19:35.22 | mheath | Tene: Finished by upgrade, everything is working great now |
| 19:35.29 | mheath | Not sure if I got a chance to tell that to you last night |
| 19:35.42 | mheath | Except my 120 days uptime, which is now < 1 day :(' |
| 19:35.59 | findlay | whatever. I've had longer downtimes than that |
| 19:36.09 | mheath | yum still has some weird dependency issues |
| 19:36.13 | mheath | but its not for stuff I need |
| 19:36.23 | mheath | For example, it can't install g++ at the moment... |
| 19:36.48 | Tene | Just pretend that you're morally opposed to c++ |
| 19:37.23 | findlay | and then you'll be like sjansen :) |
| 19:37.49 | maquis | emcnabb: sure |
| 19:37.52 | mheath | as gcc-g++ wants a version of libstdc++ that isn't in the distro |
| 19:38.08 | mheath | meh, I wish I had some rich venture capitalists to fund me :P |
| 19:38.22 | mheath | HHES would be out next year |
| 19:38.36 | Newsome | sooo...emcnabb...you tired with RH and want to move back to Illinois yet? |
| 19:39.26 | maquis | Newsome: i thought you wanted to move out to seattle...... :P |
| 19:39.48 | Newsome | just to burn M$ to the ground with the leftover amazon rainforest wood |
| 19:40.04 | mheath | wow |
| 19:40.10 | mheath | someone tried to use my server as a proxy |
| 19:40.18 | mheath | Connection attempts using mod_proxy: 66.102.136.188 -> 213.92.8.7:31204: 1 Time(s) |
| 19:40.32 | maquis | mheath: did it work? |
| 19:40.45 | mheath | I don't think so |
| 19:41.04 | mheath | thats all my log summary says is "Connection attempts using mod_proxy" |
| 19:41.11 | mheath | I'll have to go look at the real log to see.. |
| 19:41.24 | mheath | "attempts" I think implies it didn't work, though |
| 19:42.02 | mheath | Wow |
| 19:42.13 | mheath | an INSANE number of bad connection attempts |
| 19:42.26 | mheath | Someone tried to authenticate with user accounts that don't exist, 450 times.. |
| 19:42.31 | mheath | (in one day?) |
| 19:42.47 | mheath | on ssh |
| 19:43.59 | mheath | is that, uh..normal at all? |
| 19:44.13 | levi | Normal if you're being attacked by a script kiddie. |
| 19:44.26 | maquis | normal if you don't blackhole |
| 19:44.32 | findlay | I have denyhosts set up to deny all services forever after 2 bad attempts :) |
| 19:44.54 | findlay | saves my bandwidth :) |
| 19:44.54 | mheath | seems so |
| 19:45.05 | mheath | someone tried to brute force their way in, it looks like... |
| 19:45.11 | mheath | 395 times, from one host.. |
| 19:45.23 | *** join/#utah jaywalla (n=jay@65.103.247.238) |
| 19:45.24 | beandog | eh |
| 19:45.25 | mheath | it shouldn't be allowing 395 times. |
| 19:45.27 | beandog | its just script kiddies. |
| 19:45.28 | mheath | Thats messed up |
| 19:45.37 | beandog | denyhosts doesnt check each login |
| 19:45.41 | beandog | it just runs intermittently |
| 19:45.51 | beandog | besides, most logins are in the dozens per second |
| 19:46.10 | beandog | I think fozzmoo wrote about that once, maybe it was someone else |
| 19:46.17 | findlay | beandog: I have denyhosts setup as a daemon |
| 19:46.23 | beandog | findlay: ditto |
| 19:46.40 | beandog | sshd doesnt have anything to run against an invalid login |
| 19:46.40 | findlay | although it can run from cron |
| 19:46.44 | beandog | so you can only check the logs. |
| 19:47.05 | mheath | sshd authenticates with pam though |
| 19:47.07 | beandog | findlay: er, thats what I meant, Ive got mine as a cronjob. |
| 19:47.14 | mheath | pam should be able to blacklist somehow, shouldn't it? |
| 19:47.15 | beandog | mheath: doesnt have to |
| 19:47.19 | mheath | It does on my system |
| 19:48.18 | mheath | logwatch is cool |
| 19:48.22 | mheath | I didn't notice it before |
| 19:48.34 | mheath | (probably why my root mailbox has about 100 messages in it :P) |
| 19:49.04 | rsimpkins | The recent module with iptables pretty much killed any bruteforce attacks I was getting. |
| 19:51.26 | mheath | webmin is cool, too |
| 19:51.29 | mheath | useful |
| 19:51.38 | mheath | haven't had any kind of admin frontend before |
| 19:51.47 | rsimpkins | webmin drives me crazy. |
| 19:52.02 | beandog | rsimpkins: which module |
| 19:52.14 | levi | webmin is not for real system administrators. :) |
| 19:52.28 | Tene | webmin-- |
| 19:52.28 | mheath | ~lart levi |
| 19:52.28 | ibot | installs a bad bootloader on levi and turns levi into a brick |
| 19:52.32 | rsimpkins | beandog: recent |
| 19:52.33 | Tene | ~levi mheath |
| 19:52.34 | ibot | ACTION gives mheath a hovercraft and then fills it with eels! |
| 19:52.46 | beandog | rsimpkins: ah, the recent, thought you meant 'a recent' |
| 19:53.03 | mheath | meh |
| 19:53.04 | rsimpkins | beandog: Who's on second? |
| 19:53.10 | mheath | it works, simplifies things. |
| 19:53.13 | beandog | :) |
| 19:53.15 | dataw0lf | webmin? |
| 19:53.22 | beandog | Ive never gotten webmin to work 100% |
| 19:53.30 | beandog | always foobles something up. |
| 19:53.34 | beandog | oh well |
| 19:53.38 | Tene | ~webmin dataw0lf |
| 19:53.38 | beandog | it's still nice sometimes. |
| 19:53.55 | dataw0lf | it's a ridiculous application, even for one who wants to use a web frontend ( /me gags again ) |
| 19:54.43 | dataw0lf | ensim isn't too bad, all things considered. |
| 19:55.00 | dataw0lf | Better than Plesk, which is the only other sys admin control panel I can recall within the same league. |
| 19:55.06 | mheath | beandog: had problems with it? I've just been using it briefly, but haven't been having much of a problem |
| 19:57.55 | mheath | Grr, I'm still looking for an organizational chart program -.- |
| 19:58.10 | Tene | What do you want it to do? |
| 19:58.20 | *** join/#utah Lakshmi (n=chatzill@adsl-69-109-172-97.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 19:58.36 | mheath | Create well formated organizational charts |
| 19:58.38 | findlay | organize all his charts |
| 19:58.44 | mheath | Should be simple to use, but support complex relationships |
| 19:58.52 | mheath | (not just simple parent-and-child tree relationships) |
| 19:58.55 | Tene | Explain "organizational charts"? |
| 19:59.12 | mheath | A chart of an organization? |
| 19:59.36 | Tene | What specific data structures would it need to graph that are difficult or awkward? |
| 20:00.43 | mheath | I'm talking about inputing data by hand |
| 20:00.45 | mheath | But |
| 20:00.55 | mheath | I've found two things so far: |
| 20:01.19 | mheath | 1) Drawing tools that contain shaps appropriate for this, and let you just setup the chart yourself. Don't like these, takes too much time and too hard to format well |
| 20:01.30 | Tene | mheath: ever looked at graphviz? |
| 20:01.47 | mheath | 2) Simple things that lets you just input values and builds the chart automatically |
| 20:01.53 | mheath | Those are cool, but they don't support complex relationships |
| 20:02.05 | tensai | ~onjoin redbeard1 ping from tensai |
| 20:02.05 | ibot | tensai: ok |
| 20:02.09 | mheath | You can't, say, have more than one link from a grandparent to a grandchild |
| 20:02.25 | mheath | Tene: too complex |
| 20:02.39 | Tene | mheath: howso? I found it really simple and straightforward... |
| 20:03.06 | mheath | Specifically what I'm trying to do is put together a Chain of Command chart for the Sea Cadet youth group I work with. |
| 20:04.08 | Tene | Write a little tiny script to take whatever input data you want and output to graphviz for processing. |
| 20:05.19 | mheath | it involves a graph creation language and stuff |
| 20:05.27 | mheath | I'm really working with something that is relatively simple |
| 20:05.35 | mheath | I'd prefer just a point-and-click GUI app |
| 20:05.47 | Tene | All you need to do is list what nodes connects to what other node. Very straightforward. |
| 20:06.05 | mheath | Can it support complex structures? |
| 20:06.21 | Tene | Give an example of a complex structure. I'm not entirely clear what you're referring to. |
| 20:06.54 | mheath | usually these charts are simple trees |
| 20:07.15 | mheath | parent -> Child1 -> Grandchild1, Grandchild2 |
| 20:07.37 | mheath | but I also want, say, Child2, which is ALSO above Grandchild1. |
| 20:07.54 | mheath | A parent, too, not just an uncle :P |
| 20:09.49 | Tene | So parent -> child2 -> Grandchild1 ? |
| 20:10.10 | mheath | yeah, in addition to parent -> child1 -> Grandchild1 |
| 20:10.23 | mheath | hmm, seems graphviz supports this well... |
| 20:10.43 | Tene | Yeah. |
| 20:11.11 | Tene | http://castro.iodynamics.com/~tene/org.png |
| 20:11.13 | Tene | like that? |
| 20:12.49 | mheath | yep |
| 20:12.50 | mheath | cool |
| 20:12.57 | mheath | can I change the line style too? |
| 20:12.59 | Tene | http://castro.iodynamics.com/~tene/org.src was the source file I made for that |
| 20:13.00 | Tene | Yes. |
| 20:13.12 | mheath | line color, or dotted line, etc. |
| 20:13.45 | mheath | brb |
| 20:14.48 | mheath | Tene: can you do me a favor and save the src file with a .txt extension? |
| 20:15.06 | Tene | Yes, done. |
| 20:15.18 | Tene | Updated to have special edge attributes. |
| 20:15.22 | mheath | I'm stuck with IE, which makes me save files with unknown extensions before I can open them with a proram |
| 20:15.32 | Tene | Yeah, np |
| 20:16.13 | mheath | sweet |
| 20:16.36 | mheath | How well does it work with _really_ complex graphs (don't need an example, just advice?) |
| 20:16.47 | Tene | I've heard that it works very well. |
| 20:16.57 | mheath | some of these relationships I'm going to do aren't that complex, but theres enough of them that it seems like it'll be kind of hard to squeeze in |
| 20:17.07 | Tene | http://allalone.org/pics/and-cats.png is the most complicated graph I've done myself. |
| 20:17.27 | Tene | A friend wanted some charts of thigns for an RPG he's working on. |
| 20:17.41 | mheath | cool |
| 20:17.45 | mheath | (RPG sounds interesting, too) |
| 20:18.00 | mheath | Wish there was better formatting, though.... |
| 20:18.09 | findlay | heh, I've done way more complicated than that |
| 20:18.10 | Tene | There's lots of options for formatting. |
| 20:18.16 | findlay | but with a script |
| 20:18.21 | mheath | I'm making a more complicated merger of two graphs I have right now |
| 20:18.25 | Tene | What are you referring to specifically? |
| 20:18.28 | Tene | wrt formatting |
| 20:18.28 | mheath | and I like the way the current graphs have the nodes formatted |
| 20:18.37 | mheath | Right now, each node is like a two cell table |
| 20:18.48 | mheath | Top cell has a title (IE, Commanding Officer) |
| 20:18.54 | Tene | http://www.graphviz.org/Gallery/directed/datastruct.html -- like that? |
| 20:18.54 | mheath | and bottom cell has a name |
| 20:19.14 | mheath | Exactly |
| 20:19.15 | mheath | Cool |
| 20:19.58 | mheath | thanks Tene |
| 20:20.03 | Tene | findlay: "but"? Why do you say that that wasn't generated by a script? |
| 20:20.07 | mheath | you've been really helpful lately...with this, and last night with my server.. |
| 20:20.08 | Tene | mheath: np. glad to help. |
| 20:20.57 | findlay | Tene: I didn't write most of the script, it's another layer of generalzation |
| 20:21.07 | Tene | mheath: I'll me curious to see what you come up with. |
| 20:21.07 | findlay | it just takes a database and makes a chart about it |
| 20:21.37 | mheath | The only thing I don't like about that datastruct format.... |
| 20:22.04 | mheath | Is you have to specificy where in the record the line comes from, apparently |
| 20:22.10 | mheath | I'm cool with that being handled automatically |
| 20:22.23 | mheath | "node0":f0 -> "node1":f0 |
| 20:23.14 | Tene | "where in the record the line comes from"?? |
| 20:23.35 | Tene | Ahh. |
| 20:23.36 | Tene | Right. |
| 20:25.13 | Tene | mheath: if you explicitly create the nodes, you can put newlines and other formatting inside the label. |
| 20:25.28 | *** part/#utah jaywalla (n=jay@65.103.247.238) |
| 20:25.55 | mheath | What is the <f0> stuff for, though? |
| 20:25.59 | mheath | I don't think its necessary |
| 20:26.02 | mheath | Not all records have them... |
| 20:26.13 | mheath | Is it just a sub specifier type thing? |
| 20:26.27 | Tene | That's for the datastruct records, so that you can specify *which* element in the datastruct you're referencing. |
| 20:26.53 | mheath | Do I have to specificy which, though? |
| 20:27.01 | mheath | Or can I just refer to the whole datastruct? |
| 20:27.31 | mheath | "node1" -> "node5" instead of "node1":f2 -> "node5":f0 |
| 20:28.45 | Tene | I'm not sure. Try it and see what happens. |
| 20:30.29 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@c-76-23-34-128.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 20:32.05 | Tene | mheath: looks like it works fine to me to not specify which. |
| 20:32.13 | mheath | Tene: yeah, works fine for me too |
| 20:32.22 | mheath | except for some reason I have left to right records rather than top to bottom? |
| 20:33.07 | Tene | mheath: oh? show me the node definition. |
| 20:33.22 | mheath | "XO" [ |
| 20:33.23 | mheath | label = "Executive Officer| Vacant" |
| 20:33.23 | mheath | shape = "record" |
| 20:33.24 | mheath | ]; |
| 20:33.46 | mheath | Why does their sample thing have line breaks? |
| 20:34.10 | Tene | Dunno. |
| 20:34.29 | mheath | wonder how its done... |
| 20:35.02 | Tene | Oh, put {} around the list |
| 20:35.12 | Tene | Seems to make a difference for me. |
| 20:35.46 | mheath | what do you mean, the list? |
| 20:35.47 | mheath | like |
| 20:35.57 | mheath | label = "{blah| blah}" ? |
| 20:36.00 | Tene | label="{XO|Vacant}" |
| 20:36.05 | mheath | ah |
| 20:36.55 | mheath | how can I put a line break in one block? |
| 20:37.02 | Tene | \n |
| 20:37.09 | mheath | And one more question |
| 20:37.12 | mheath | How do I escape " ? |
| 20:37.16 | *** join/#utah tiwula (n=lane@208.64.90.18.static.utahbroadband.com) |
| 20:37.20 | Tene | did you try \"? |
| 20:37.24 | mheath | haven't yet |
| 20:37.50 | mheath | yeah, that works |
| 20:37.53 | mheath | cool |
| 20:38.29 | Tene | I presume you've looked at http://www.graphviz.org/Gallery.php |
| 20:39.09 | mheath | na, will now though :P |
| 20:41.01 | Tene | http://www.graphviz.org/Gallery/directed/switch.html is certainly interesting. |
| 20:43.09 | mheath | Wonder how I can change the color of one block of the record... |
| 20:43.40 | Tene | That's something I'm not sure about. |
| 20:49.35 | Tene | the imap output type is interesting. |
| 20:50.46 | Tene | ~panda elg |
| 20:50.48 | elg | las cruces has no good americanized chinese food places |
| 20:50.51 | mrpull- | there are usually a few cougars in here... |
| 20:51.03 | mrpull- | does BYU have iCal feeds for sports? |
| 20:51.08 | elg | just a couple bad not-americanized chinese food places and one really bad americanized one |
| 20:51.11 | mrpull- | google is doing me no favors |
| 20:51.25 | Tene | mheath: are you just going to use graphviz, or make a frontend that renders to graphviz? |
| 20:51.46 | mheath | Right now just using graphviz |
| 20:51.53 | *** join/#utah Supaplex (i=supaplex@166-70-62-199.ip.xmission.com) |
| 20:51.56 | mheath | In the future, I want to work on a big website framework for this organization |
| 20:52.18 | mheath | It would be cool to make a PHP thing that could on-the-fly recreate the chain-of-command graphic, when officers are added/removed |
| 20:53.00 | Tene | Rather. |
| 20:53.38 | mheath | Hmm |
| 20:54.10 | mheath | thats far down my list of things to code, though |
| 20:54.14 | mheath | Even for this organization |
| 20:54.23 | mheath | And a training management program |
| 21:07.30 | mheath | Tene: look at private message |
| 21:07.38 | mheath | messaged you a link to my first revision |
| 21:07.45 | mheath | Didn't want to paste in here; got a lot of names and stuff in it |
| 21:09.24 | *** join/#utah Lakshmi_________ (n=chatzill@adsl-69-109-170-232.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 21:09.26 | mheath | I wonder if something like |
| 21:10.03 | mheath | foo -> bar [style="solid:dashed",color="black:red"] works |
| 21:12.49 | mheath | Tene: is there any way to get it to render a chart title? |
| 21:13.41 | Tene | mheath: no clue. |
| 21:13.49 | Tene | mheath: yes, that should work. |
| 21:23.31 | Tene | http://merlin.allalone.org/media/cats.html -- using graphviz's generated client-side html imagemap |
| 21:43.39 | mheath | I'm really starting to like graphviz :) |
| 21:49.20 | mheath | Hey, anyone have any suggestions for a really cheap, temporary wireless announcement system? |
| 21:49.56 | elg | announce what? what's for lunch? |
| 21:50.20 | Tene | mheath: "shouting" |
| 21:50.32 | mheath | elg: We're doing an on-site overnight training thing with this youth group |
| 21:50.54 | elg | so you want a PA? range? |
| 21:50.58 | mheath | I thought it would be cool to try to simulate the 1-MC announcement system they use aboard naval ships |
| 21:51.07 | mheath | For the training and berthing spaces |
| 21:51.27 | mheath | They use a system like that at USN boot camp, for making announcements |
| 21:51.41 | mheath | But, nah, I think this would be too complicated |
| 21:55.45 | findlay | so, why on a Linux system you install the distro and can reasonably expect everything to work, whereas with windows you have to hunt down drivers (on another computer) burn a CD, and manually install each driver? |
| 21:56.55 | findlay | so, why on a Linux system you install the distro and can reasonably expect everything to work, whereas with windows you have to hunt down drivers (on another computer) burn a CD, and manually install each driver? |
| 21:56.59 | findlay | idiot |
| 21:57.04 | findlay | wrong window |
| 21:57.05 | levi | findlay: I think you know the answer to that. |
| 22:08.43 | *** join/#utah Newsome (n=sorenson@adsl-75-0-136-70.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net) |
| 22:12.15 | *** join/#utah findlay-w (n=justin@gocastlerock.com) |
| 22:12.31 | findlay-w | levi: I suppose I don't really know |
| 22:13.19 | findlay-w | if it's easy enough for a Linux distro to package enough drivers for a great variety of hardware, then why does Windows not do the same? |
| 22:13.22 | Tene | findlay: I'm having trouble with that question. I don't think it's grammaticaly correct. |
| 22:13.35 | findlay-w | what question? |
| 22:13.41 | Tene | The one you pasted twice. |
| 22:13.46 | findlay-w | I don't remember it |
| 22:13.57 | Tene | followed by "idiot" and "wrong window" |
| 22:13.58 | findlay-w | nor do I have access to it :) |
| 22:14.25 | Tene | The one that levi suggested you know the answer to. |
| 22:14.41 | findlay-w | the computer hosting my other irssi session has been seperated from the interwebs |
| 22:14.57 | levi | findlay-w: Pretty much all of the drivers included with Linux are developed in concert with the kernel by the vast, distributed network of Linux kernel developers. |
| 22:15.21 | Tene | levi: where do drivers for windows come from? |
| 22:15.26 | findlay-w | yeah |
| 22:15.38 | levi | findlay-w: The drivers for Windows things that you have to track down are developed and distributed by the manufacturers of the devices they are for. |
| 22:16.06 | findlay-w | I understand that, but why is it so hard to bundle them with windows? |
| 22:16.15 | findlay-w | maybe because windows has fewer releases :) |
| 22:16.22 | Tene | Windows Update |
| 22:16.25 | sinuhe | findlay-w: My impression is that Microsoft's HCL is governed by what Microsoft themselves have available, either by contract or by writing the driver themselves. I wouldn't be surprised if part of their contracts or agreements specifically require them to *not* use freely available (reverse compiled) drivers, but instead (and I think this is the key) to rely on the 3rd party vendors to provide their own drivers. |
| 22:16.32 | levi | That, and Microsoft does not own the rights to distribute them. |
| 22:16.53 | findlay-w | ah, so it's a 'rights' thing :) |
| 22:16.56 | findlay-w | funny |
| 22:17.07 | Tene | Heh. |
| 22:17.08 | sinuhe | Heh: what levi said. :-) |
| 22:17.21 | Tene | ~elg sinuhe |
| 22:17.21 | ibot | ACTION sandwichmaps sinuhe. |
| 22:17.22 | levi | That, and I doubt that Microsoft really wants to be troubled with maintaining and distributing drivers for 3rd party hardware. |
| 22:18.10 | levi | As far as they're concerned, it's the job of the PC builder to assemble the components and integrate the OS and drivers. |
| 22:21.09 | sinuhe | Was ist "sandwichmaps"? |
| 22:21.43 | Tene | ~levi sinuhe |
| 22:21.44 | ibot | ACTION gives sinuhe a hovercraft and then fills it with eels! |
| 22:21.53 | findlay-w | a collection of maps of Hawii? |
| 22:22.01 | findlay-w | s/ii/aii/ |
| 22:23.06 | findlay-w | anyway, that's funny in several ways |
| 22:23.23 | findlay-w | open source is obviously superior, etc. |
| 22:46.45 | *** join/#utah hagna (n=hagna@70.98.162.62) |
| 22:49.29 | findlay-w | man, why are all 3rd party windows driver sites so ugly? |
| 22:52.02 | beandog | they gotta leave an impression |
| 22:53.05 | findlay-w | so in order to use the ethernet on this laptop I have to download a driver and burn a CD because windows can't find one itself online :) |
| 22:57.21 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@c-76-23-34-128.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 23:18.41 | bonez39 | I have a large text file....it's 801k .. when I open it with vim...it's very difficult to move around in the file...what would be a better/faster editor to use to view this file? |
| 23:21.43 | Tene | ed, possibly |
| 23:26.36 | *** part/#utah decriptor (i=decripto@nat/novell/x-7e12db1e5ddc0ce2) |
| 23:33.35 | mheath | 801k isn't a very large text file.... |
| 23:36.07 | *** join/#utah klys_ (n=admini@72.8.101.65) |
| 23:39.16 | Tene | mheath: if there are very long lines in the file, moving the cursor around in the file can be a bit awkward if you're not well-versed in vim-fu. |
| 23:40.48 | mheath | ah |
| 23:40.56 | mheath | he means navigation, not actual speed |
| 23:41.02 | mheath | I was thrown off by "faster" |
| 23:41.51 | Tene | Vim actually does choke up on very long lines, I think. |
| 23:42.07 | mheath | coughs |
| 23:42.13 | Tene | Slow to load at least, I think. |
| 23:42.17 | mheath | emacs, perhaps? :-) |
| 23:56.26 | mheath | lamo, the quidditch ref in the Harry Potter movies has a Boatswain's pipe. |
| 23:56.32 | mheath | *lmao* |
