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| 01:11.16 | findlay | what about pineapple!? |
| 01:11.19 | findlay | ~pineapple |
| 01:11.20 | ibot | ACTION dances around with a pineapple on her head, singing ~o pineapple pineapple pineapple ~o |
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| 02:02.41 | sontek | herlo: are you sure you chose both when you didn't get it? |
| 02:02.43 | sontek | I've tried every scenario, I can't get that to happen |
| 02:02.50 | sontek | I get it when I choose it, and I don't when I don't ;) |
| 02:04.10 | sontek | Oh, and I have the discount codes all setup |
| 02:04.19 | sontek | I forget the URL to the web service |
| 02:04.38 | sontek | but we'll need to create accounts for user group presidents to hit it and grab a discount code to hand out |
| 02:05.41 | sontek | herlo: ahh, I see, the confirmation e-mail is wrong |
| 02:06.17 | *** join/#utah nick125_ (n=nick@unaffiliated/nick125) |
| 02:06.36 | herlo | sontek: yeah, that's what i was talking about |
| 02:07.01 | herlo | sontek: we can do the account creation easily enough... |
| 02:07.25 | sontek | herlo: yeah, we'll just want to get it to all the leaders soon so they can hand them out at their next meeting |
| 02:07.57 | herlo | yep, I'll start contacting them this week... |
| 02:08.18 | sontek | and do we want to setup any consumption rules? Like PLUG only gets 25 discount codes, or something like they can only have 10 out at a time, to get more their users need to register |
| 02:08.26 | sontek | or should we just let them pull as many has they want |
| 02:32.17 | nick125_ | Maybe I oversized this UPS a bit..... |
| 02:32.34 | nick125_ | LOADPCT : 20.0 Percent Load Capacity |
| 02:32.50 | nick125_ | thats with both machines at full load |
| 02:43.27 | herlo | nick125_: well, go buy some more machines |
| 02:43.40 | herlo | or more powerful ps's |
| 02:44.10 | nick125_ | I don't think that would be the solution :p |
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| 03:06.35 | Lakshmi | hi |
| 03:08.42 | Tene | Hi. |
| 03:09.10 | Lakshmi | sup? |
| 03:11.01 | Tene | Feeling sick. |
| 03:11.14 | Tene | It turns out that I rather dislike sushi. |
| 03:12.09 | Lakshmi | tene me too |
| 03:12.15 | Lakshmi | i think i have the flu :( |
| 03:13.08 | Tene | the sushi flu? |
| 03:13.14 | Tene | ~herlo++ |
| 03:13.36 | herlo | Tene: gracias, senor |
| 03:13.57 | Lakshmi | tene.. no |
| 03:14.02 | Lakshmi | im feeling sick too |
| 03:14.07 | Lakshmi | and i hate sushi |
| 03:14.40 | herlo | Lakshmi: i love sushi, you clearly had the wrong kind or bad sushi because good sushi tastes awesome! |
| 03:14.53 | Lakshmi | i jus hate fish |
| 03:14.56 | Lakshmi | to start with |
| 03:15.25 | herlo | sushi isn't necessarily fish |
| 03:15.34 | herlo | sashimi is raw fish |
| 03:15.51 | Tene | hmm |
| 03:16.03 | Tene | herlo: seems I rather dislike sashimi, then. |
| 03:16.18 | herlo | sushi can be made up of just rice and veggies if you like |
| 03:16.24 | Tene | the other two people I was eating with were extremely pleased with it, so it was definitely very good sashimi. |
| 03:17.20 | herlo | Tene: you gotta get the playboy roll and vegas roll at most places. If those are tasty, its a good sushi place IMO |
| 03:17.47 | Tene | I had a vegas roll. Didn't like it. |
| 03:18.01 | Tene | The others really liked them, though. |
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| 04:14.39 | herlo | Tene: I guess sushi isn't for everyone |
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| 04:14.39 | Tene | Wait, wait, when was SQL Server 2005 released? |
| 04:15.04 | Tene | Wouldn't it be... "2005"? |
| 04:18.47 | QBFreak | doubtful |
| 04:19.29 | QBFreak | when has microsoft ever given a correct time estimation? |
| 04:19.34 | Tene | Oh, they pushed back "correct time estimates" to Q4 this year. |
| 04:19.42 | Tene | But they're really going to release it then this time. |
| 04:19.43 | Tene | ;) |
| 04:23.14 | Supaplex | it's always a beta product! |
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| 05:37.20 | findlay | ~sushify! |
| 06:46.53 | Lakshmi | hey all |
| 06:47.00 | Supaplex | ay' |
| 06:50.27 | Lakshmi | sups? |
| 06:52.18 | Supaplex | not much |
| 06:52.37 | Supaplex | I think i'll get to bed here soon. 15m or so. |
| 06:53.11 | Lakshmi | thats a good idea |
| 06:53.19 | Supaplex | you? |
| 06:53.40 | Supaplex | s/^/and / |
| 06:54.37 | Lakshmi | mm iono |
| 06:54.42 | Lakshmi | trying to find new music to get |
| 06:54.59 | Lakshmi | and doing my usual late night relationship question pondering |
| 06:55.28 | Supaplex | ahh |
| 06:57.56 | Lakshmi | wanna join or u goin to head off to bed? |
| 06:59.30 | Supaplex | i think I'll turn in for the night :) |
| 06:59.41 | Lakshmi | sounds good |
| 06:59.43 | Lakshmi | gnite |
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| 07:52.02 | fozzmoo | ~seen Jayce^ |
| 07:52.14 | ibot | jayce^ <n=jayce@pollux.northsky.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #utah, 15h 4m 59s ago, saying: 'Tene, you can get the cf cards that fold open to be usb devices, very tiny'. |
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| 08:02.10 | Lakshmi_ | hey |
| 08:09.12 | Lakshmi | anyone here?? |
| 08:32.53 | sontek | ofcourse |
| 08:56.44 | Lakshmi | holas |
| 08:57.59 | Lakshmi | if fozzmoo ever comes back, tell him to pm me please |
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| 13:10.33 | ^Migs^ | http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/oh-hai-i-fixted-ur-pilloh.jpg |
| 13:16.37 | ^Migs^ | http://environment.newscientist.com/channel/earth/dn12141-giant-microwave-turns-plastic-back-to-oil.html |
| 13:16.39 | brac | [Giant microwave turns plastic back to oil - earth - 26 June 2007 - New Scientist Environment] |
| 13:26.35 | goozbach | oops |
| 13:26.44 | goozbach | wikipedia just got me in trouble |
| 13:26.58 | goozbach | the frontpage article of the day is "the wonderbra" |
| 13:27.09 | goozbach | with a big 'ol picture of the same |
| 13:29.53 | ^Migs^ | you got in trouble for that? |
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| 13:38.11 | jsmith | goozbach: Wikipedia is not safe for work, eh? |
| 13:40.20 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@216.31.27.110) |
| 13:40.35 | ^Migs^ | I saw the image, and I can't believe you got in "trouble" for that |
| 13:41.10 | ^Migs^ | unless you're on 320x240 resolution, that's hardly a "big 'ol picture" |
| 13:41.36 | elg | i didn't get in trouble |
| 13:45.11 | Tene | goozbach: where are you at, currently? |
| 13:46.52 | ^Migs^ | http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/6245798.stm |
| 13:46.54 | brac | [BBC NEWS | Technology | Cyber-bullying gathers pace in US] |
| 13:47.06 | ^Migs^ | One third of US online teenagers have been victims of cyber-bullying according to research by the Pew Internet Project. |
| 13:47.14 | ^Migs^ | Some 32% of teenagers questioned had experienced one of more of the following: having a private e-mail, IM or text messaging forwarded or posted where others could see it, the victim of an aggressive email, IM or text message, having a rumour spread about them online or having an embarrassing photograph posted online without permission. |
| 13:47.46 | ^Migs^ | I can't help but think some of these kids don't have a future if they consider being talked down to on the Internet "bullying." |
| 13:50.04 | elg | they haven't seen real cyberbullying until you're finished with them |
| 13:52.45 | Tene | ~cyberbully elg |
| 13:53.51 | ^Migs^ | the solution is simple. Don't post your pics online, and don't give out private emails online |
| 13:54.25 | ^Migs^ | actually, who cares about giving out your private emails? If someone starts sending you "threatening emails" (oo scary!) just get a new email |
| 13:58.52 | Tene | or... delete them. |
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| 14:10.29 | ^Migs^ | yeah, nobody's forcing you to read this stuff |
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| 14:31.31 | goozbach | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:31.46 | goozbach | luckily it was just a co-worker who saw it and not a manager |
| 14:39.08 | elg | -urls |
| 14:39.09 | brac | [2007/06/28 07:46:54] <^Migs^> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/6245798.stm |
| 14:39.09 | brac | [2007/06/28 07:16:39] <^Migs^> http://environment.newscientist.com/channel/earth/dn12141-giant-microwave-turns-plastic-back-to-oil.html |
| 14:39.09 | brac | [2007/06/28 07:10:34] <^Migs^> http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/oh-hai-i-fixted-ur-pilloh.jpg |
| 14:39.10 | brac | [2007/06/27 15:57:50] <levi> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun#Life_cycle |
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| 14:57.04 | goozbach | elg: you're looking for the offending url? |
| 14:57.16 | goozbach | it's the front page story at wikipedia |
| 14:57.21 | Tene | elg: http://en.wikipedia.org/ |
| 14:58.05 | elg | you go to wikipedia for daily news? ;-) |
| 14:58.45 | goozbach | no, I just do that to reach their search bar |
| 15:00.29 | elg | i just search "foo wiki" and it usually brings up wikipedia on the first page |
| 15:00.37 | elg | e.g. |
| 15:00.41 | elg | ~google wonderbra wiki |
| 15:01.02 | elg | stupid bot. |
| 15:01.05 | elg | -google wonderbra wiki |
| 15:01.05 | brac | wonderbra wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wonderbra |
| 15:01.15 | elg | see? :) |
| 15:01.58 | elg | is there a program for cleaning up dangling symlinks in a dir? |
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| 15:08.17 | mrpull | if you use Firefox, you can right click any search field, add a keyword, and then typing "keyword searchterm" in the address bar will do the search without loading the page or hopping thru google |
| 15:08.49 | Tene | find . -type l -L -print0|xargs -0 rm |
| 15:09.09 | Tene | mrpull: yeah, I found that a while back. It's really neat. |
| 15:09.28 | mrpull | it's a good trick. i remember it first on an IE wrapper I used to use |
| 15:10.56 | Tene | Heh, I was pretty much falling asleep here, but reading the 'find' man page woke me up completely. |
| 15:11.00 | wps | a |
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| 15:11.11 | Tene | elg: thank you |
| 15:11.13 | elg | Tene: how does that only catch dangling symlinks? |
| 15:12.24 | wps | can anyone recommend a place to find out rates (salary) for a senior java/C++ developer in Utah? |
| 15:12.25 | Tene | elg: '-type l' is never true when -L is in effect, unless the link is broken. |
| 15:12.33 | elg | ah |
| 15:12.56 | mrpull | wps: the job sites usually have some basic stats |
| 15:13.07 | elg | then divide by 2 for being in utah |
| 15:13.08 | mrpull | yahoo jobs, monster, salary.com |
| 15:13.37 | mrpull | one of the big computer rags does a salary survey every year |
| 15:13.44 | mrpull | let me see if I can track that down |
| 15:13.49 | *** join/#utah neybar (n=jalance@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 15:14.19 | mrpull | www.informationweek.com/itsalaryadviser |
| 15:14.35 | wps | thanks, mrpull |
| 15:14.47 | Tene | elg: does that work for you? |
| 15:14.55 | mrpull | it might be IT focused rather than developer focused |
| 15:15.01 | *** join/#utah neybar (n=jalance@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 15:15.02 | mrpull | so it might be a rabbit trail |
| 15:15.30 | elg | Tene: i had already done it by hand |
| 15:15.33 | elg | so i dunno |
| 15:20.07 | Tene | Hmm. looks like it really really doesn't. |
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| 15:23.12 | Tene | "find -L /path -type l" works, but only if you don't mind it following links to directories. |
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| 15:40.04 | ^Migs^ | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:40.20 | ^Migs^ | it's neat to know your organization is ahead of everyone else |
| 15:42.08 | rsimpkins | ^Migs^: Being ahead of a school district?? What you say? |
| 15:43.39 | rsimpkins | elg: I think you could have done a simple -e. if [ -e <symlink> ]; then echo "KEEP"; else echo "DELETE"; fi; |
| 15:43.54 | ^Migs^ | well, there's a kind of competition between all the Utah school districts, since resources typically aren't shared, and every district every responsible for itself |
| 15:43.59 | rsimpkins | elg: Stick that in a for loop fed with find and I think that'd do it. |
| 15:44.06 | ^Migs^ | meaning they have to come up with their own technology solutions, etc. |
| 15:44.29 | ^Migs^ | the state of Utah does provide OC lines, and monitors Internet access, but that's about it |
| 15:45.13 | rsimpkins | ^Migs^: Imagine if there were a gigantic, bureacratic, monolith of school district IT. Kids would still be using Apple ][. |
| 15:46.13 | ^Migs^ | thank goodness there's not |
| 15:46.32 | elg | rsimpkins: or I could have written a simple ruby script. all fine solutions, though harder than manually deleting the symlinks in this case |
| 15:46.40 | ^Migs^ | I can't speak for other districts, but I like how our district is run. Quite a bit of freedom to do what we want, and ideas for change are welcomed and appreciated |
| 15:46.54 | elg | but it seems like a useful thing that someone would have written a script/program to do already |
| 15:46.58 | ^Migs^ | our IT Director is really, really good at his job |
| 15:47.16 | ^Migs^ | it's rare to find a boss that so highly values his employees' input |
| 15:50.49 | rsimpkins | elg: Like adding a gazilion more flags to rm? |
| 15:51.10 | rsimpkins | elg: Maybe we should make srm (super rm) that adds special filters to the base rm. |
| 15:51.24 | thaddeusq | ^Migs^: That's true in any corporation |
| 15:51.43 | ^Migs^ | that was myp oint |
| 15:51.45 | ^Migs^ | *my point |
| 15:55.37 | *** join/#utah diesel (n=diesel@c-71-195-214-62.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 15:55.49 | diesel | rsimpkins: Howdy! |
| 15:55.56 | rsimpkins | Okay, if BSD is "Unix-like" what the tarnation is UNIX? :) |
| 15:56.01 | rsimpkins | diesel: Hi. |
| 15:56.57 | diesel | rsimpkins: My real name is Dave Long, just to remind you |
| 15:57.49 | rsimpkins | diesel: Hey man. I was like - who is diesel? :) |
| 15:58.02 | rsimpkins | It's been quite a while since I last saw you in iRC. |
| 15:58.02 | diesel | rsimpkins: I thought that you might have to think hard |
| 15:58.15 | diesel | rsimpkins: it has been a long time |
| 15:58.15 | rsimpkins | diesel: Still at tomax? |
| 15:58.21 | diesel | yep |
| 15:58.23 | rsimpkins | Right on. |
| 15:58.24 | ^Migs^ | diesel: who are you? |
| 15:58.37 | diesel | rsimpkins: are you still at Omniture? |
| 15:58.51 | rsimpkins | diesel: Yeah, plan on being here for quite a while. This place is awesome. |
| 15:59.23 | diesel | rsimpkins: really? That's great. I am glad that you enjoy your job. So what's so awesome about it? |
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| 16:00.22 | rsimpkins | diesel: Quite a few things... I love the tech, the people, the benefits, the culture. It's all very professional, and I haven't written a PRD yet! |
| 16:01.01 | findlay | what's a PRD? |
| 16:01.04 | diesel | rsimpkins: PRD! Sweet-no freaking PRD |
| 16:01.16 | levi | rsimpkins: Unix is SCO's Unixware. ;) |
| 16:01.17 | rsimpkins | diesel: And some how we get stuff done - correctly. :) |
| 16:01.17 | findlay | ~prd |
| 16:01.23 | diesel | PRD = Product Requiremnt Document |
| 16:01.31 | rsimpkins | product/project |
| 16:01.35 | findlay | heh |
| 16:02.13 | rsimpkins | findlay: diesel and I worked at WestHost together, and were professional PRD developers. |
| 16:02.44 | rsimpkins | diesel is pretty good at PRD, but he thought he'd go do Perl or Bash instead. :) |
| 16:02.49 | findlay | sounds fun |
| 16:03.27 | rsimpkins | man dmwaters is chatty today,. |
| 16:04.13 | diesel | rsimpkins: I have actually gotten decent at perl now. |
| 16:04.19 | rsimpkins | diesel: Right on. |
| 16:05.14 | diesel | rsimpkins: I recently created a customer facing web app that creates a socket connection to Nagios and parses Nagios' object.cache file |
| 16:05.19 | diesel | It was a fun project |
| 16:05.28 | diesel | and there was no freaking PRD either |
| 16:05.38 | rsimpkins | diesel: Yeah. I think everyone does taht because the Nagios stuff for that his HORRID! :) |
| 16:05.51 | diesel | rsimpkins: Oh yeah, it is ugly |
| 16:06.14 | rsimpkins | diesel: How many systems do you babysit now? |
| 16:07.04 | diesel | rsimpkins: > 200 |
| 16:07.14 | rsimpkins | That's great. |
| 16:07.32 | diesel | rsimpkins: oncall, cussing out Sun techs, the gammit |
| 16:07.51 | rsimpkins | Gotta love the SA life. |
| 16:08.00 | diesel | rsimpkins: You like happy valley? |
| 16:08.26 | rsimpkins | diesel: Meh. |
| 16:09.09 | rsimpkins | diesel: I like some things, other things I'm not too crazy about. |
| 16:09.22 | rsimpkins | Kind of like Logan really, just different things bug me. |
| 16:09.44 | rsimpkins | diesel: You're still in SLC? |
| 16:17.02 | maquis | diesel: you a dev? |
| 16:19.48 | ^Migs^ | who the heck is diesel? |
| 16:20.56 | elg | rsimpkins: I don't think rm options is the right place |
| 16:20.56 | rsimpkins | diesel == David Long, an SA at Tomax in SLC, a former WestHost employee (along with myself). |
| 16:21.02 | elg | rsimpkins: maybe a find option |
| 16:21.09 | elg | but more likely just a script with a sane name |
| 16:21.23 | elg | like "dangle-no-more" |
| 16:21.25 | elg | or something |
| 16:21.36 | rsimpkins | elg: I guess to me a simple if [ -e file ]; is pretty simple. |
| 16:21.38 | elg | "monk" |
| 16:22.16 | elg | rsimpkins: sure, but all the cruft you have to piile around it to actually use it is not so simple |
| 16:22.24 | elg | not so complicated, but not so simple |
| 16:22.40 | rsimpkins | elg: I guess compared to my other one-liners it's super simple. ;) |
| 16:23.00 | elg | you reconstruct complicated one-liners all the time? what a waste of time |
| 16:23.53 | diesel | rsimpkins: I live in Layton |
| 16:23.54 | rsimpkins | elg: No, I alias the ones I use frequently, and I keep a library of one-liners. |
| 16:24.18 | elg | so you do what I was suggesting |
| 16:24.36 | rsimpkins | elg: Sure. |
| 16:24.45 | diesel | maquis: no, not a dev |
| 16:24.56 | diesel | maquis: but rsimpkins answered that well |
| 16:25.28 | maquis | diesel: ah... cool |
| 16:25.42 | elg | this seems to work: find . | while read i; do [ ! -e "$i" ] && rm "$i"; done |
| 16:25.48 | elg | for your library |
| 16:25.55 | maquis | i've never done much SA, but i do spend a good bit of time on-call fixing problems, etc. |
| 16:27.12 | rsimpkins | diesel: Oh, I just had a kid. |
| 16:27.21 | rsimpkins | Guess that's kind of important to mention. :) |
| 16:27.29 | rsimpkins | Well, my wife had a kid. |
| 16:31.12 | ^Migs^ | your kid was immaculately conceived? |
| 16:31.53 | rsimpkins | ^Migs^: Sure, I'll go with that. :) |
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| 16:32.42 | findlay | man, I feel dumb |
| 16:33.26 | findlay | well test it anyway |
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| 17:18.56 | tensai | -chat about modern major |
| 17:18.57 | brac | modern major not test a hub to see then as long as the search variable |
| 17:19.57 | findlay | -chat about ~lart me |
| 17:19.57 | brac | ~lart me because its in Terry's court I think we've discussed it a time I ever saw |
| 17:19.57 | ibot | pulls out his louisville slugger and uses me because its in Terry's court I think we've discussed it a time I ever saw's head to break the homerun record |
| 17:25.11 | tensai | -chat about ibot |
| 17:25.11 | brac | ibot is wierd |
| 17:31.40 | *** join/#utah sontek (n=sontek@unaffiliated/sontek) |
| 17:52.36 | diesel | rsimpkins: re kid. That's awesome. Girl, boy? |
| 17:58.10 | dataw0lf | rsimpkins: congratulations |
| 17:58.47 | rsimpkins | diesel: girl. |
| 17:58.54 | diesel | rsimpkins: how many do you have now? |
| 17:58.57 | rsimpkins | 6 |
| 17:59.07 | rsimpkins | We are really done now. seriously. :) |
| 17:59.07 | diesel | rsimpkins: holy crap, you've been busy |
| 17:59.24 | rsimpkins | Yeah, we had all 6 upstairs this morning. It was pretty cool. |
| 17:59.35 | rsimpkins | Having a big family is hard, but it is kinda cool. |
| 17:59.54 | rsimpkins | diesel: You have one, right? |
| 18:00.06 | diesel | rsimpkins: yep, just the one boy. He is almost 2 now |
| 18:00.39 | rsimpkins | Cool. Two is a fun age. |
| 18:00.47 | diesel | rsimpkins: yeah, he is fun |
| 18:01.08 | diesel | I am waiting for my wife to let me know when we are having another |
| 18:01.22 | diesel | rsimpkins: the trying to get pregnant is always fun ;) |
| 18:01.43 | rsimpkins | My wife and I look at each other and she has twins. |
| 18:03.19 | diesel | rsimpkins: So did you have a hard time selling your house in Logan? |
| 18:04.14 | rsimpkins | Took a couple months to get the buyers we wanted. |
| 18:04.31 | rsimpkins | Glad we sold when we did. :) |
| 18:05.15 | diesel | rsimpkins: did you make a good profit? |
| 18:05.28 | rsimpkins | diesel: Well, for only being in there two years, yeah, we did okay. |
| 18:12.48 | diesel | rsimpkins: good for you! |
| 18:12.58 | rsimpkins | Man the pgsql people are annoying. |
| 18:13.05 | rsimpkins | BSD licensing is so frustrating. |
| 18:13.11 | rsimpkins | And so are the developers that choose it. |
| 18:13.16 | Tene | howso? |
| 18:14.30 | rsimpkins | Let's call product A 'foo'. Let's call modified foo 'bar'. Foo is fast. Bar is faster. Foo is free. Bar is pricy. Foo could be as fast as bar if you knew the few modifications that made bar fast and put them in to foo. |
| 18:14.50 | rsimpkins | The people that make foo don't care that bar is faster, because you have to pay for that so it isnt' the same thing. |
| 18:15.15 | rsimpkins | For some reason the foo people think that foo is just fine as it is, never mind that bar is much much faster. |
| 18:15.51 | rsimpkins | And that bar is really only slightly modified from foo! |
| 18:15.59 | rsimpkins | It's all foooo barr! |
| 18:16.58 | rsimpkins | So, what foo people think is "so that just shows you how much better we could be." And bar says "ha ha, those foo people just don't get it. we do. and that costs money. we are laughing all the way to the bank." |
| 18:17.37 | rsimpkins | So, foo is happy with the POTENTIAL to be better. Foo isn't interested in actually becoming better. |
| 18:18.23 | rsimpkins | You can't do that with GPLd code. If foo were GPL, then when you made bar faster you could take the sauce that makes bar and put it back in to foo. |
| 18:18.39 | rsimpkins | No wonder BSD licensed software is a slog. |
| 18:19.58 | levi | Heh. |
| 18:20.38 | levi | On the other hand, the people who make bar clearly did something that was valuable, and they get to make money from it. |
| 18:20.55 | rsimpkins | So if you choose bar you can't go back to foo because bar is 'modified' and not really compatible with foo any more. So you are 'locked-in' to bar. Bar takes the 'best' from foo and acts like a big gigantic money leech. |
| 18:22.04 | rsimpkins | levi: Which is arguably exactly like closed-source software, only better, because every now and then foo makes something interesting and you get to 'steal' it. :) |
| 18:22.51 | rsimpkins | And bar can seem like a nice guy by giving back to foo, thus manipulating foo to better support bar's money quest. |
| 18:23.30 | levi | rsimpkins: You're only frustrated because you're not the one making money, you're the one being asked to spend it. |
| 18:23.33 | rsimpkins | Foo thinks; "Wow, bar is such a nice guy. Look at all this code!" And bar thinks; "Ha ha! They still dont' get it. Silly geeks." :) |
| 18:24.52 | rsimpkins | levi: I'm frustrated anytime I encounter a "don't care" attitude. In this case foo doesn't care that it is slower. They are happy with the possability of being faster, and aren't really interested in actually being faster. |
| 18:25.21 | rsimpkins | So, I'm done with that rant. |
| 18:25.35 | levi | rsimpkins: If greater speed is not their goal, then it's not your place to set their priorities. |
| 18:26.27 | findlay | levi: why wouldn't it be their goal? |
| 18:26.28 | rsimpkins | levi: I guess if you aren't a community you aren't interested in what the community thinks. :) |
| 18:27.12 | levi | The thing about open source is that the users have to understand that they have no real pull on the authors, since they are not actually giving them anything but attention and maybe bug reports. |
| 18:27.39 | diesel | rsimpkins: if it is GPL and you think foo is slow, then YOU can make it faster |
| 18:27.43 | levi | findlay: Any number of reasons, but probably because it's fast enough for their usage already. |
| 18:28.13 | levi | findlay: If you wrote a program and some random guy said, 'It's not fast enough for me! Make it faster!' what would you do? |
| 18:28.52 | rsimpkins | levi: A better statement would be: "How did Joe make your program run 50% faster in two week?" |
| 18:29.12 | levi | rsimpkins: So? Clearly they aren't concerned about it. Why should they be? |
| 18:29.30 | rsimpkins | levi: Yeah, clearly they don't care. :) |
| 18:29.31 | levi | rsimpkins: Because you are? No, you mean nothing to them. What have you given to them that they should respect your concerns? |
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| 18:29.58 | rsimpkins | levi: I am agreeing with you here. |
| 18:30.08 | findlay | levi: well, if he's talking about a database I would presume they just might be interested in making it as much faster as rsimpkins seems to imply |
| 18:30.22 | levi | findlay: They /might/ be, but apparently they're not. |
| 18:30.27 | findlay | indeed |
| 18:30.36 | tensai | yuck. boxed mac & cheese. |
| 18:30.58 | rsimpkins | k, time for food. :) |
| 18:31.06 | findlay | no fair |
| 18:31.17 | levi | I mean, if they're okay with someone making money off of it and contributing back non-speed-related changes, then no harm has been done, except to poor rsimpkins' sensibilities. ;) |
| 18:31.55 | rsimpkins | levi: It just makes me wanna go all they way closed. Oracle - here I come. :) |
| 18:33.52 | *** join/#utah sjansen (n=sjansen@86.43.76.98) |
| 18:34.19 | tensai | -lart sjansen |
| 18:34.28 | sjansen | ~hug tensai |
| 18:34.34 | ibot | ACTION gets a running start and tackle-hugs tensai |
| 18:38.17 | *** join/#utah ti`ocpi (n=Chelle@67.182.192.235) |
| 18:40.28 | goozbach | when I quit my next job, I'm not rushing to finish projects |
| 18:40.47 | goozbach | I don't know why I'm so worried about making this thing work |
| 18:41.03 | Tene | Wow, this is kind of surreal. |
| 18:41.33 | Tene | Some insane php zealot has been spamming #perl6 with racist hate-speech, specifically targetting Larry Wall and his family. |
| 18:42.00 | findlay | ~spam Tene |
| 18:42.01 | ibot | ACTION subscribes Tene to every possible mailing list he can find on the 'net AND arranges for Tene to get at least 50 snail mail spams a day |
| 18:42.19 | Tene | http:/irc.pugscode.org/ |
| 18:42.23 | Tene | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:43.56 | ^Migs^ | BOW DOWN BEFORE YOUR LORD AND MASTER, GOUDATR0N! HACKER OF ALL THAT IS EVIL, JUSTICE FOR ALL THAT IS PHP AND GOOD. LOL @ PERL6 MORE LIKE VAPOR6 |
| 18:44.00 | ^Migs^ | he makes a convincing argument |
| 18:45.42 | findlay | do they make keyboards with the capslock welded on? |
| 18:45.46 | sjansen | Wow. He does. I never thought anyone could convince me to use PHP. I stand corrected. |
| 18:46.30 | findlay | ~php sjansen |
| 18:46.42 | ^Migs^ | ~perl sjansen |
| 18:46.43 | ibot | ACTION forces ^Migs^ to use perl |
| 18:46.52 | levi | I don't think I'll be loading that .png |
| 18:48.29 | Tene | That's a good choice. |
| 18:48.38 | Tene | ~levi++ |
| 18:49.43 | Tene | http://community.livejournal.com/geology/201605.html |
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| 19:06.07 | *** join/#utah WashiChan (n=Chelle@67.182.192.235) |
| 19:06.16 | ^Migs^ | WashiChan-san! |
| 19:06.39 | WashiChan | Hehehe, hi |
| 19:09.13 | sjansen | And now we are sans WashiChan. |
| 19:10.08 | *** join/#utah TimRiker (i=timr@205.233.55.201) |
| 19:10.08 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 19:15.36 | tensai | "washichan-san", that makes my ears hurt |
| 19:34.53 | levi | A coworker just bought a new 17" hi-res MacBook Pro. I covet it. |
| 19:36.04 | goozbach | I was just looking at that same notebook levi |
| 19:36.15 | goozbach | I'm tired of waiting for the T61p |
| 19:39.12 | findlay | because jsmith is thrifty! :) |
| 19:39.25 | rsimpkins | jsmith: geo-diverse service monitoring for free. any ideas? Maybe some sort of monitoring exchange? |
| 19:39.51 | jsmith | rsimpkins: Interesting concept... peer-to-peer maybe? |
| 19:40.21 | jsmith | rsimpkins: Build it similar to the way DUNDi works in Asterisk -- do it peer to peer, but use public/private keys to authenticate all the messaging |
| 19:40.32 | jsmith | (So you only get monitored by people you trust, etc.) |
| 19:40.41 | rsimpkins | jsmith: I hear there are people who have done this, I just can't find them. |
| 19:40.52 | jsmith | rsimpkins: You need ziptie.org yet? |
| 19:41.22 | sjansen | goozbach: Keep the faith! |
| 19:41.59 | rsimpkins | jsmith: Probably not. I was hoping for something more hackerish. |
| 19:42.26 | sjansen | levi: Thou shalt not covet. Just get it over, beat up your co-worker and steal the laptop. |
| 19:46.15 | elg | ~praise the doctor |
| 19:46.16 | ibot | All hail the doctor! |
| 19:46.23 | goozbach | sjansen: I don't know how much longer I can wait! |
| 19:47.11 | rsimpkins | I shouldn't have to pay $25/month to have someone make 5 TCP/IP connections to my box every minute, transfer no data, and e-mail me if one doesn't work and when it comes back. |
| 19:47.30 | rsimpkins | Or even 10, or 20, or 50! :) |
| 19:47.41 | elg | rsimpkins: I'll do that for $7.50 |
| 19:48.13 | rsimpkins | I guess I'm going to have to build my own free service monitoring solution, because all the ones out there are horrid. |
| 19:48.32 | rsimpkins | I wonder if it were add based if it would bring in enough money to cover costs. |
| 19:48.43 | rsimpkins | advertisment based, that is. |
| 19:48.51 | Tene | rsimpkins: group of people running nagios checks on each other? |
| 19:49.20 | rsimpkins | Tene: It's gotta be more complex. You need geo-diversity with some sort of quorum vote/cluster ideology to eliminate false alarms. |
| 19:49.33 | Tene | Hmm. |
| 19:50.01 | rsimpkins | No one wants to be woken up by a 'dumb' automated system at 2pm because the main node lost a link. |
| 19:50.09 | rsimpkins | or even at 2am. |
| 19:50.23 | goozbach | 2pm is more likely for me |
| 19:50.29 | rsimpkins | Depending on when you wake up I guess. :) |
| 19:50.33 | goozbach | that's when I'm most sleepy |
| 19:50.36 | findlay | heh |
| 19:50.41 | sjansen | rsimpkins: For $5/month I'll hookup and a random number generator to an email generator and blow some smoke about quantum uncertainty. |
| 19:51.25 | rsimpkins | sjansen: That's what I have now. :) |
| 19:52.44 | goozbach | rsimpkins: but from someone you know & trust^w? |
| 19:53.39 | rsimpkins | goozbach: How much would I need to know/trust them? |
| 19:54.40 | rsimpkins | Taking some ideas from clusters, I'm sure there has got to be a way. It's like a cluster that sends a heartbeat once a minute instead of once a second. |
| 19:54.58 | rsimpkins | And the nodes are not right next to each other. |
| 19:56.45 | rsimpkins | So a quorem vote, or an arbitrator or something needs to be involved. With some concept of fencing. Not sure how you handle split-brain though. |
| 19:57.50 | levi | rsimpkins: Sounds more like grid technology than cluster technology. |
| 20:07.10 | tensai | see I was just planning a naive system with nagios or similar |
| 20:12.55 | jsmith | tensai: rsimpkins and I can tell you Nagios horror stories :-) |
| 20:14.08 | tensai | jsmith: I believe 'em and you don't even have to start |
| 20:23.22 | goozbach | soo boring |
| 20:23.27 | goozbach | use mon! |
| 20:23.35 | goozbach | or *shudder* hobbit |
| 20:24.52 | ^Migs^ | http://www.wired.com/techbiz/people/magazine/15-07/ff_hansreiser |
| 20:27.57 | mrpull | rsimpkins: it sounds like a fun project to make a distributed simple protocol monitor |
| 20:28.10 | mrpull | what language will you be writing it in? |
| 20:28.18 | findlay | erlang, of course |
| 20:28.24 | findlay | :) |
| 20:30.09 | ^Migs^ | if we all could live long enough, it'd only be a matter of time before each of us went to prison for something |
| 20:30.47 | goozbach | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:30.57 | Tene | murdering migs? |
| 20:31.02 | goozbach | selling contraband pineapples |
| 20:31.06 | ^Migs^ | that would be cool |
| 20:31.09 | Tene | aww... |
| 20:31.23 | ^Migs^ | you really need to get over your personal vendetta against me, Tene. I'm not worth it. |
| 20:31.33 | Tene | migs: you're completely right. |
| 20:31.56 | ^Migs^ | you'd think I'd burned your house down and turned it into a landfill or something |
| 20:32.12 | Tene | You're right, I very much am overreacting. |
| 20:32.19 | ^Migs^ | yeah, settle down |
| 20:32.43 | ^Migs^ | go sit in the corner and think about what you've done |
| 20:34.34 | findlay | ~pineapple |
| 20:34.35 | ibot | ACTION dances around with a pineapple on her head, singing ~o pineapple pineapple pineapple ~o |
| 20:34.44 | Tene | :D pineapple! |
| 20:34.44 | findlay | yay |
| 20:34.51 | Tene | ~findlay++ |
| 20:35.17 | findlay | free pineapple for everybody, compliments of goozbach and ibot! |
| 20:35.35 | Tene | ~goozbach++ |
| 20:36.20 | goozbach | but my pineapples are the only pineapple-ly ones |
| 20:36.30 | goozbach | ibot's are made of plastic |
| 20:37.19 | Tene | ~ping camgus |
| 20:37.20 | ibot | pong camgus |
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| 21:01.09 | *** join/#utah ti`ocpi (n=Chelle@67.182.192.235) |
| 21:02.51 | bonez44 | help..I am editing a letter using vim... and I hit something and it wiped out the last paragraph... |
| 21:02.51 | bonez44 | how can I back up? |
| 21:03.00 | *** join/#utah cridrferi (n=Chelle@67.182.192.235) |
| 21:03.16 | dataw0lf | bonez44: u |
| 21:03.27 | bonez44 | just u? |
| 21:03.38 | dataw0lf | just hit u |
| 21:03.44 | bonez44 | thank you.......that was it...thank thanks |
| 21:03.45 | mrpull | (gotta be in command mode) |
| 21:03.46 | *** join/#utah WashiChan (n=Chelle@67.182.192.235) |
| 21:03.52 | bonez44 | ok, was in command mode |
| 21:03.52 | dataw0lf | bonez44: np |
| 21:03.59 | mrpull | why vim? |
| 21:04.13 | dataw0lf | let's not start that |
| 21:04.17 | mrpull | hehehe |
| 21:04.17 | dataw0lf | VIM IS AWESOME |
| 21:04.19 | dataw0lf | NO EMACS IS |
| 21:04.20 | mrpull | i couldn't resist |
| 21:04.23 | dataw0lf | NOTEPAD FTW! |
| 21:04.24 | mrpull | msword.exe |
| 21:04.31 | dataw0lf | hehe |
| 21:04.35 | mrpull | seriously |
| 21:04.59 | dataw0lf | whatever floats your boat |
| 21:06.13 | findlay | Archimedes Principle |
| 21:06.23 | findlay | ~wiki archimedes principle |
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| 21:16.41 | tensai | another story from the tech support files |
| 21:16.58 | tensai | customer: my email disappeared from my inbox. where did it go? |
| 21:17.17 | tensai | support: it was deleted via POP3 by you |
| 21:17.25 | tensai | c: no, that can't be. I only use webmail. |
| 21:17.34 | tensai | s: well, is your phone number 555-1212? |
| 21:17.50 | tensai | c: well, yes but it's impossible |
| 21:18.15 | tensai | s: so why are the messages sitting there in your outlook express inbox then? |
| 21:18.19 | tensai | c: ... |
| 21:22.05 | elg | were they in the inbox? |
| 21:22.10 | elg | the suspense is killing me |
| 21:22.20 | *** join/#utah cridrferi (n=Chelle@67.182.192.235) |
| 21:24.52 | *** join/#utah ti`ocpi (n=Chelle@67.182.192.235) |
| 21:26.32 | tensai | elg: yes. the missing messages were in the inbox, safe and sound |
| 21:26.53 | findlay | oooh, what a story |
| 21:28.06 | tensai | ok, findlay. I've got another exciting tale for you. |
| 21:28.26 | tensai | customer emails in because her webmail doesn't work on her new laptop |
| 21:29.36 | tensai | I figure out that it's a weird optional ActiveX object that the user enabled. I disabled it and had her try again. |
| 21:33.26 | *** join/#utah Lakshmi (n=chatzill@adsl-69-109-118-86.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 21:35.32 | Lakshmi | hey |
| 21:36.01 | findlay | ~hey |
| 21:36.02 | ibot | i heard hey is almost for horses |
| 21:36.18 | Lakshmi | sup? |
| 21:52.39 | tensai | sorry about the delay. so to continue my story... |
| 21:52.49 | tensai | it worked fine but she straightaway enabled the ActiveX object again and behold, it broke again |
| 21:52.56 | tensai | basically our answer was "stop doing that" |
| 21:54.00 | elg | which she interpreted as clicking on the right-hand side of the link |
| 21:54.08 | elg | now she clicks on the activex enabling link on the left side |
| 21:54.43 | elg | i'm sorry to say I'm sorely disappointed with git |
| 21:57.46 | levi | elg: How so? |
| 21:58.24 | levi | I can't say I'm sorely disappointed, but from a 'making sense' standpoint it seems to fall short of darcs, which is the only other drcs system I've used. |
| 22:00.00 | elg | a lot of the distributed tasks I'm used to doing with darcs, git simply doesn't do well. big example: in darcs you can push and pull only the patches you're interested in. so long as there's no dependency, you aren't forced into it |
| 22:00.09 | findlay | man my work bandwidth is small |
| 22:00.30 | findlay | you get 5 people browsing the web at the same time and it's beyond maxed out |
| 22:00.41 | findlay | I can't wait for utopia to get out here |
| 22:00.57 | elg | with git, it's whole history or nothing. there is cherry picking but it is tedious and causes problems down the road (basically it generates a patch, applies it, and commits it. it can cause problems down the road because it's not _the same_ changeset) |
| 22:01.20 | elg | one thing that was really promising about git was the ability to switch branches in your working directory really fast |
| 22:01.54 | elg | that is indeed really cool, but in practice it's almost never actually possible. you have to have a super squeaky clean working directory to do it, or it complains and refuses to switch |
| 22:02.19 | *** part/#utah ^Migs^ (n=migs@205.122.50.69) |
| 22:02.20 | levi | Yeah. |
| 22:02.22 | elg | then there's the conceptual strangeness |
| 22:02.42 | levi | I never saw the point of switching branches in the same directory. |
| 22:02.46 | elg | I tried to set this project up with darcs, but it was getting into that infinite loop sort of problem |
| 22:02.54 | elg | so I'm going to try mercurial |
| 22:02.59 | elg | it looks promising |
| 22:03.08 | levi | I've heard good things about mercurial. |
| 22:03.26 | levi | I'm not sure if anything else supports the patch cherry-picking that darcs does, though. |
| 22:03.40 | elg | this blog entry is interesting, and talks about that very point |
| 22:03.41 | elg | http://changelog.complete.org/posts/528-Whose-Distributed-VCS-Is-The-Most-Distributed.html |
| 22:04.14 | elg | and this one, where he takes a closer look at mercurial (for the same reason I am) |
| 22:04.14 | elg | http://changelog.complete.org/posts/588-Re-Examining-Darcs-Mercurial.html |
| 22:11.14 | levi | Man, if only darcs didn't have that hanging issue. |
| 22:12.36 | elg | basically, what I'm looking for is the best distributed RCS for following a CVS project (to which I don't have commit access), tracking my personal changes, generating patches, and not spending hours resolving conflicts when those patches are accepted |
| 22:13.01 | levi | Well, let me know what you find out. |
| 22:13.08 | levi | I'm kind of in the same situation. |
| 22:14.11 | levi | Currently submitting patches to FreeIPMI and conman. I just haven't version-controlled my changes before submitting them, so far, except for conman. I don't even have access to their cvs repository, though, so I only get updates at releases. |
| 22:18.22 | elg | as for wanting the easy working directory switch, it can save tremendous disk space. |
| 22:18.26 | elg | if you have huge projects |
| 22:18.36 | levi | This is true. |
| 22:19.12 | levi | But then you can't have them both active at once. I suppose there are probably nifty commands that let you compare two versions of a file, but there are already too many nifty commands to remember. |
| 22:19.29 | elg | yup |
| 22:19.31 | levi | I'm definitely a git-noob. |
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| 22:26.14 | nick125_ | levi: Meh, don't feel bad, I bet we all are :p |
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| 22:27.08 | elg | i'm sure we all are. :) |
| 22:27.12 | elg | i wonder if anyone isn't |
| 22:27.25 | levi | Well, I imagine Linus is pretty good with it. |
| 22:27.41 | elg | :) |
| 22:27.47 | nick125_ | I bet he is. |
| 22:28.25 | nick125_ | One thing I like about git is that you can "cherry-pick" patches from another branch to merge into another branch |
| 22:28.31 | elg | I think what I'm going to do is use tailor to keep in sync with CVS, but instead of importing the whole CVS history just import HEAD |
| 22:28.35 | elg | so I can use darcs |
| 22:28.51 | elg | or let it run for hours and hours and actually trudge its way through the hang |
| 22:29.07 | elg | i can't see my needing the complete cvs history, since i'm not a developer per se |
| 22:32.36 | levi | nick125_: That's true, but as pointed out earlier, the patch that you cherry-pick is not actually the same as the original commit in the eyes of the vcs. It can lead to problems when trying to merge things back together again. |
| 22:33.27 | levi | nick125_: Darcs actually lets you pull a change from one and put it in another and have it be the /same change/ in both places. |
| 22:33.47 | nick125_ | levi: Really? That's neat. I'm going to have to take a look at darcs. |
| 22:34.04 | levi | It's a very cool thing, but the price you pay is that you can get it in a state where it behaves /very/ slowly or completely hangs. |
| 22:34.26 | nick125_ | Ouch. |
| 22:35.42 | levi | It's an issue for some people, but not for others. |
| 22:35.46 | levi | I never ran into it. |
| 22:36.00 | findlay | levi: what do you mean by the same change? |
| 22:36.47 | levi | findlay: darcs has this 'theory of patches' thing where every change you commit is separated out into its constituent patches, each of which has its own id. |
| 22:37.13 | findlay | so it's almost 'patch'-based rather than a traditional file tree? |
| 22:37.20 | levi | Which is nice by itself, because you can do a whole bunch of unrelated things and when you commit them, you can pick and choose while you're commiting which ones you want to commit. |
| 22:38.54 | levi | So you can fix several unrelated bugs at the same time as you implement a new feature, and then at the end you run commit and it runs a list of changes by you, and you select only the ones that apply to the problem you're making a commit to solve. |
| 22:39.05 | levi | And then repeat the process for the other issues. |
| 22:39.25 | levi | More tedious than committing after every change, but sometimes I forget to commit. :) |
| 22:40.24 | levi | findlay: A 'patch' is actually a set of changes. It's not patch-based, which most rcs systems are, it's change-based. |
| 22:40.53 | levi | Well, I guess it depends on how you define your terms. The ones I just used probably don't line up with the ones darcs uses. |
| 22:41.04 | levi | You'd have to read up on it; I'm probably not explaining well. |
| 22:44.50 | levi | Time for me to head home. Going camping for the weekend. :) |
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| 22:58.19 | nick125_ | Hmm. |
| 22:58.26 | nick125_ | Something is up with this wireless card, it will randomly stop transmitting packets |
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| 23:19.43 | nick125_ | Awesome signal level: Link Quality:0 Signal level:0 Noise level:0 |
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