| 00:08.44 | findlay | brasto: ~/.muttrc |
| 00:09.09 | *** join/#utah wps (n=wps@208.53.47.251) |
| 00:09.17 | findlay | I use this: set editor="vim +/^$ -c 'set linebreak ft=mail'" |
| 00:09.48 | findlay | although as levi indicates, you can change that to emacs or nano or whatever |
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| 00:15.49 | findlay | man, the uvsc website is ugly |
| 00:15.57 | findlay | teh u-g-l-y |
| 00:18.57 | Supaplex | (dead cf card)-- |
| 00:19.42 | elg | where's redbeard this week? |
| 00:20.10 | Supaplex | he tripped into a vat of hydrogen-peroxide? |
| 00:21.05 | findlay | of course you don't start so see the real abominations until you log in |
| 00:21.06 | elg | hope not. i have a question for him |
| 00:22.58 | Supaplex | well, we'd just call him Santa ;) hah |
| 00:23.31 | findlay | ~seen redbeard |
| 00:24.04 | ibot | redbeard <i=redbeard@redbeard.dsl.xmission.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #debian, 616d 19h 29m 12s ago, saying: 'along with /dev/hdd (yes the CDROM drive is still in the machine)'. |
| 00:24.04 | findlay | ~seen Santa |
| 00:24.05 | ibot | santa <n=tuplad@d54C52170.access.telenet.be> was last seen on IRC in channel #wowace, 348d 23h 52m 38s ago, saying: ':O'. |
| 00:24.33 | elg | -seen redbeard2 |
| 00:24.33 | brac | redbeard2 was last seen 2 hours, 21 minutes and 6 seconds ago, quitting IRC (""It is not only possible, it is essential."") |
| 00:24.50 | findlay | ~seen redbeard3 |
| 00:24.51 | ibot | findlay: i haven't seen 'redbeard3' |
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| 01:07.34 | *** join/#utah bonez39 (n=aint@c-24-10-147-163.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 01:17.22 | bonez39 | how do I lookup another PC on a remote network? |
| 01:18.25 | bonez39 | nmblookup? |
| 01:19.32 | Supaplex | that's for samba |
| 01:19.38 | Supaplex | do you want dns? |
| 01:20.13 | bonez39 | yeah, dns... |
| 01:20.19 | bonez39 | it's another linux box..not winders |
| 01:20.21 | Supaplex | dig, host |
| 01:21.07 | elg | but there's no automatic dns |
| 01:21.16 | elg | so that only works if there's dns set up |
| 01:21.21 | Supaplex | then how do you expect to know what it is? |
| 01:21.29 | Supaplex | it's like trying to find an unlisted phone number |
| 01:21.51 | elg | yup |
| 01:21.59 | Supaplex | say it was listed in dns, how would that help you? |
| 01:22.35 | elg | say the grand canyon got filled with ping pong balls, how would that help you? |
| 01:23.10 | Supaplex | who's issue is this anyway? |
| 01:23.54 | Supaplex | it's a probing question in an attempt to understand his perspective on the matter. |
| 01:24.05 | elg | whose issue? I would assume it's bonez39's issue as he's the one asking |
| 01:24.21 | Supaplex | I would assume to, but I decided to ask anyway. |
| 01:24.30 | bonez39 | gad...sorry...I ask lame questions, don't it |
| 01:24.34 | bonez39 | don't I.... |
| 01:24.35 | elg | right, and my comment was a clarification because I thought there was a nonzero chance he wasn't thinking about a box with dns |
| 01:24.43 | elg | just being helpful |
| 01:25.01 | Supaplex | haha .. mmm whatever. |
| 01:25.41 | bonez39 | so I have one box..my main linux box..it has port 22 forwarded to it..I ssh to that box...then once there...I have been able to ssh to this other linux box on the same LAN at work... |
| 01:26.04 | Supaplex | it could be in ~/.ssh/known_hosts if it was used before. this assumes the dhcp server gave it a long or static lease, or it's staticly assigned anyway. |
| 01:26.20 | bonez39 | but I had the eth0 set up using DHCP..I changed to a static IP..then hit reboot..and instead of making sure it set up, before I left work, I assumed it would..and now I can't access that other box... |
| 01:26.39 | bonez39 | so I was hoping I could use some tool to figure out what it's IP is so I can ssh to it... |
| 01:27.07 | elg | so you're home, and this is the LAN at work. you can ssh into one of the work machines, right? |
| 01:27.16 | Supaplex | now that helps a little. |
| 01:27.34 | bonez39 | yeah, I am at home and these two machines....Production and new....let's say..are at work |
| 01:27.40 | bonez39 | right... |
| 01:28.19 | elg | does the new box have any reason at all to communicate with production of its own accord? samba config, ntp, whatever |
| 01:28.24 | elg | if so, you could look in the arp tables |
| 01:29.01 | elg | most likely though, if you set it up with a static IP address and it's not responding to that address, then it's not salvageable from the network |
| 01:29.19 | Supaplex | this other linux box, you ssh to it from your main box, right? and how? does it still work the same way? the old box didn't change, right? |
| 01:29.24 | Supaplex | s/old/other/ |
| 01:29.37 | bonez39 | no, the new box has no specific need to communicate with production |
| 01:29.51 | bonez39 | Supaplex, yeah, right.... |
| 01:29.59 | bonez39 | old box is same..production box...same....yeah |
| 01:30.21 | Supaplex | so how did you login to it before? ssh with an ip? did you try that? |
| 01:30.42 | Supaplex | but you didn't really test your box before you left. |
| 01:31.32 | bonez39 | ssh .with either ip or name..I set up in /etc/hosts 192.168.15.20 david...then I could just ssh david and it would connect |
| 01:31.49 | Supaplex | try ssh -vvv david |
| 01:32.02 | bonez39 | I'll have to directly connect when I am there I guess...and get the statis IP for that machine working, then it will work remotely |
| 01:32.08 | Supaplex | it'll get noisy, but it'll tell you what it is trying to do |
| 01:32.28 | bonez39 | debug1: connect to address 192.168.15.20 port 22: No route to host |
| 01:32.28 | bonez39 | ssh: connect to host david port 22: No route to host |
| 01:32.30 | bonez39 | nevermind.... |
| 01:32.38 | bonez39 | needs direct interaction to work |
| 01:33.15 | Supaplex | routing of private subnets die on the public internet. :) |
| 01:33.51 | elg | can't you ssh production then ssh david from there? |
| 01:34.28 | bonez39 | elg, that's the thing, the IP I have set up for david in /etc/hosts...isn't working as the IP address likely was set by DHCP upon rebooting.. |
| 01:35.01 | elg | ok, if you think it in fact is just that the static ip configuration didn't last through the reboot, and it got dhcp |
| 01:35.02 | bonez39 | and since I dont' know how to scan the other machine....or the network to see what IP's are on the office LAN...I have no way to ssh to it, once ssh'd to production |
| 01:35.08 | elg | then there's a few options. what is your dhcp server? |
| 01:35.18 | bonez39 | yeah, I think DHCP assigned it some other IP |
| 01:35.30 | elg | if you can look at the dhcp leases, that's the most direct approach |
| 01:35.48 | bonez39 | dhcp comes from my router....it's Linksys RT31P2... has two phone ports and three ethernet ports .. |
| 01:35.55 | elg | what is your dhcp range? if you have a reasonably small dhcp range you could see which one responds to ping |
| 01:36.00 | elg | maybe with a shell script, e.g. |
| 01:36.13 | bonez39 | ah....I dont' have that router set up for remote management...another thing I'll do to it once I am back there... |
| 01:36.31 | elg | for i in `seq 1 254`; do echo $i; ping -c 1 192.168.1.$i; done |
| 01:36.32 | bonez39 | range is 192.168.15.10 through....I dont' know....200 |
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| 01:37.03 | elg | that'll take a while to run (the smaller the range the better) but you should see when one responds to ping |
| 01:37.04 | bonez39 | so just run that at the prompt? |
| 01:37.13 | elg | and that might be the current IP of your box |
| 01:37.16 | elg | yup |
| 01:37.26 | elg | using your subnet info, of course |
| 01:37.54 | bonez39 | oh, it's 192.168.15.x not .1.x |
| 01:37.59 | bonez39 | how do I stop the script? |
| 01:38.08 | elg | ctrl-c |
| 01:38.14 | elg | maybe several times in rapid sucession |
| 01:38.35 | bonez39 | ok, it's running now |
| 01:41.42 | bonez39 | I think the address is somewhere north of 192.168.15.100 |
| 01:44.45 | Supaplex | really ... ;) |
| 01:45.32 | bonez39 | elg, finally I got this > PING 192.168.15.100 (192.168.15.100) 56(84) bytes of data. |
| 01:45.32 | bonez39 | 64 bytes from 192.168.15.100: icmp_seq=1 ttl=128 time=1.85 ms |
| 01:45.46 | bonez39 | would this indicate then the right IP? 192.168.15.100? |
| 01:51.43 | *** join/#utah fozzmoo (n=fozz@166-70-238-250.ip.xmission.com) |
| 01:54.30 | Tene | elg: ping scan with nmap |
| 01:54.44 | Tene | or ssh scan, if the box runs ssh |
| 01:55.01 | fozzmoo | Tene: How was class? |
| 01:55.26 | Tene | fozz: good |
| 01:55.37 | fozzmoo | What did you learn today, Tene? |
| 01:55.48 | Tene | bonez39: prolly, yeah |
| 01:56.57 | elg | Tene: that sounds faster |
| 01:57.38 | Tene | elg: especially with -T5 |
| 01:58.24 | Tene | elg: you could also just ping the broadcast address. |
| 02:05.15 | fozzmoo | http://castro.iodynamics.com/~fozz/penguin-xvid.avi |
| 02:06.47 | Supaplex | cute |
| 02:07.07 | fozzmoo | I want to do some stop-motion stuff for the next Solitary World. |
| 02:15.03 | *** join/#utah nick125- (n=upirc@m320e36d0.tmodns.net) |
| 02:15.47 | nick125- | bad idea: not having anything to eat before going into a three hour class. |
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| 02:47.21 | elg | Tene: true, that doesn't always work though, if your version of ping doesn't support -b or in strange routing setups |
| 02:48.04 | Tene | hence my endorsement of nmap -p 22 -T5 192.168.1.* |
| 02:49.07 | elg | definitely the winner |
| 02:49.19 | levi_home | Boy, my daughter sure doesn't like going to bed. |
| 02:49.29 | Tene | I also dislike going to bed. |
| 02:49.33 | elg | me too |
| 02:50.40 | nick125_ | agreed |
| 02:50.56 | levi_home | Yeah, but I bet you guys don't poop your pants whenever you get put to bed. |
| 02:50.58 | elg | your child might respond to the concepts in that baby whisperer book |
| 02:51.21 | elg | ours did, but not like magic. we just got done doing the piggy-back ride to get his pajamas, at his suggestion |
| 02:51.42 | elg | then we do the prayer hug kiss thing, and he trots off to bed. |
| 02:52.11 | elg | that sounds like a new tactic, there. I don't think I'll try it |
| 02:52.24 | levi_home | We always read her a story, do the hug and kiss thing, and then put her in bed, at which time she promptly starts screaming her head off. |
| 02:53.02 | elg | he used to do that |
| 02:53.33 | Supaplex | -talk about eat |
| 02:53.35 | elg | http://www.amazon.com/Secrets-Baby-Whisperer-Connect-Communicate/dp/0345440900 |
| 02:53.35 | levi_home | About 80% of the time, when we go back in after a few minutes, she's messed her diaper. |
| 02:53.37 | elg | that's the book. silly name |
| 02:53.47 | elg | some silliness, but mostly no-nonsense and good info |
| 02:54.13 | elg | and of course, promises of lifechanging results that probably won't be so dramatic, but might help :) |
| 02:54.24 | elg | wow, that's talent |
| 02:56.47 | levi_home | Yeah, it's pretty crazy. I think she learned to hold it in, and that letting it out gets us to come back in. |
| 02:57.17 | elg | they're smart |
| 02:57.27 | elg | i'd believe it |
| 02:57.50 | levi_home | Either that, or she holds it in and getting so upset causes her to lose bowel control. |
| 02:58.55 | elg | I'm sure migs would have some sage advice for you. too bad he's not here |
| 03:02.21 | levi_home | Well, my wife rescued her from her crib, so no more screaming for now. |
| 03:02.48 | levi_home | Our cat killed his first bird today. My wife was horrified. |
| 03:03.31 | Tene | Why? |
| 03:03.46 | levi_home | The bird must have been pretty stupid, flying into our little porch area. It's not like it's a big area. |
| 03:03.54 | Tene | What does she think cats are, cuddly helpless balls of fluffy cuddles? |
| 03:04.07 | levi_home | Heh, certainly not our cat. He's not very cuddly. |
| 03:05.05 | Tene | Why was she horrified? |
| 03:06.35 | levi_home | Because her cat killed a bird. |
| 03:07.12 | Tene | Why is that horrifying? |
| 03:07.23 | levi_home | Beats me. |
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| 03:07.57 | levi_home | My goodness, Peter Norvig needs a fashion consultant badly. |
| 03:08.33 | levi_home | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nU8DcBF-qo4 |
| 03:27.46 | elg | nice shirt :) |
| 03:30.02 | elg | heh. "Holmes is a Bayesian" |
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| 04:21.46 | Lakshmi | hi people |
| 04:22.51 | fozzmoo | ~smack herlo |
| 04:22.52 | ibot | ACTION smacks herlo upside the head. |
| 04:23.02 | Lakshmi | fozzmoo: sup!? |
| 04:23.10 | fozzmoo | Playing with the Gimp Animation Plugin. |
| 04:24.57 | *** join/#utah SpecialK (n=Bob@c-71-195-236-231.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 04:26.57 | Lakshmi | sounds fun |
| 04:26.59 | Lakshmi | what is that? |
| 04:28.41 | fozzmoo | It's a plugin for The Gimp that lets you do all kinds of funky stuff with video files. |
| 04:28.57 | fozzmoo | In my case, I took a bunch of still photos and I'm turning them into an animation. |
| 04:28.58 | Lakshmi | ooh sounds neat |
| 04:29.32 | fozzmoo | http://castro.iodynamics.com/~fozz/penguin-xvid.avi |
| 04:29.37 | fozzmoo | That's my first cut. |
| 04:29.53 | fozzmoo | Now I'm playing with the morph tool to see if I can smooth it out a bit without it looking too creepy. :) |
| 04:31.03 | Lakshmi | ohh cool |
| 04:32.19 | fozzmoo | Lakshmi: What's up with you? |
| 04:32.43 | Lakshmi | wondering if all teenage romance is insignificant |
| 04:32.52 | Lakshmi | and if so, why bother participating in such |
| 04:33.09 | fozzmoo | Whoa. Heavy stuff. |
| 04:33.28 | fozzmoo | I think teenage romance is an unfortunate necessity. |
| 04:33.38 | fozzmoo | Just like pooping in diapers. |
| 04:33.48 | Lakshmi | but do you think it always has to end |
| 04:33.56 | Lakshmi | or does teenage romance become.. more.. |
| 04:34.50 | SpecialK | I never bothered with it |
| 04:34.54 | fozzmoo | It would help if I understood your "problem" |
| 04:35.01 | SpecialK | too much trouble not much reward |
| 04:35.05 | fozzmoo | heh. |
| 04:36.02 | klys | current romance and action becomes future character and experience not well forgotten |
| 04:36.51 | Lakshmi | mm fozzmoo, problem would be such as .. are all teenage romances destined to end |
| 04:37.10 | fozzmoo | Destined? No. |
| 04:37.14 | Lakshmi | or are there some that continue on forever |
| 04:37.16 | fozzmoo | Probably? Yeah. |
| 04:37.32 | fozzmoo | I know some couples who dated from their early teens. |
| 04:37.46 | Lakshmi | and then where are they now? |
| 04:37.49 | SpecialK | most teenage romances are between less than ideal couples |
| 04:37.52 | klys | you will probably forget about everyone in your yearbook and chances are you will marry none of those people beause you won't follow them to college, but you will feel sappy about them when you are lonely and you will have a hard time making new friends once you leave the dorms |
| 04:38.18 | fozzmoo | It's rare, but they do exist. People who meet at 15 or something and end up marrying and living happily ever after. |
| 04:38.33 | Lakshmi | fozzmoo how rare? |
| 04:38.36 | SpecialK | who would be much better served by becoming adults and having real life experiences before hooking up with another child |
| 04:38.43 | fozzmoo | I dunno. Pretty rare. |
| 04:38.53 | Lakshmi | but why so rare? |
| 04:38.56 | fozzmoo | I think most people end up with someone they meet in their 20s. |
| 04:39.00 | klys | there are some kinds of people who will marry a friend, if you are one, then keep your friends |
| 04:39.19 | fozzmoo | Why? Because teenagers generally don't have the maturity to keep it together. |
| 04:39.26 | fozzmoo | They don't know how to communicate. |
| 04:39.40 | Lakshmi | why cant they learn? |
| 04:39.42 | fozzmoo | And, in my case as a teen, they don't know how to do the "two step." |
| 04:40.12 | Lakshmi | 'two step' |
| 04:40.26 | fozzmoo | The whole point of going through relationship after relationship as a teen is to learn. |
| 04:40.26 | klys | teenage girls are pretty bad, some describe it to me as worse off than teenage guys |
| 04:40.30 | Lakshmi | if its a sexual innuendo.. i warn you atm its prolly going over my head |
| 04:40.42 | fozzmoo | No, not a sexual innuendo. |
| 04:40.51 | fozzmoo | And you're not supposed to recognize it. |
| 04:41.00 | fozzmoo | It's the idea that a relationship is give and take by both partners. |
| 04:41.10 | Lakshmi | yeah |
| 04:41.15 | Lakshmi | its one big comprimise in a way |
| 04:41.18 | fozzmoo | I think that's a difficult concept for a lot of teens |
| 04:41.32 | fozzmoo | One person or the other is usually going to feel smothered sooner or later. |
| 04:42.03 | Lakshmi | smothered in the sense? |
| 04:42.31 | fozzmoo | I remember when I was in high school, all the "hot" girls were with guys who were total jerks. Treated the girls like crap. |
| 04:42.38 | fozzmoo | At least it seemed that way. |
| 04:43.04 | Lakshmi | yeah, and then there are the other hot girls that date the non jerks |
| 04:43.14 | Lakshmi | but get treated t hat way all the same |
| 04:43.23 | fozzmoo | But there's a reason... |
| 04:43.33 | Lakshmi | there is ? |
| 04:43.37 | fozzmoo | Yeah. |
| 04:43.38 | Lakshmi | whats that reason? |
| 04:43.42 | fozzmoo | It comes back to the two-step. |
| 04:44.00 | fozzmoo | If you're in a relationship with someone and you're not giving them attention... |
| 04:44.08 | fozzmoo | they're going to WANT attention. |
| 04:44.33 | klys | popular culture forms idols around those who are able to make a lot of friends when young and keep them during the first years of college. if you don't think mass friendship is attractive now, you probably will totally disagree when you're thirty at least for all the tv exposure |
| 04:44.43 | Lakshmi | well what if you dont have time to give em the amount of attention that they want to have |
| 04:45.03 | Lakshmi | but if you did have the time you would be even better of a bf/gf |
| 04:45.07 | fozzmoo | Some people figure out the way to get someone to like you is to only give the person enough attention to keep them interested and then leave them wanting... |
| 04:45.19 | fozzmoo | But that only leads to codependency. |
| 04:45.26 | fozzmoo | Often, it also leads to abusive relationships. |
| 04:45.44 | fozzmoo | It really means the relationship isn't built on mutual respect. |
| 04:46.13 | fozzmoo | Coming back to the two-step: People in a respectful relationship trade off roles. |
| 04:46.39 | fozzmoo | One moment, one partner is paying attention and the next, he/she is getting attention. |
| 04:46.55 | Lakshmi | true |
| 04:46.57 | fozzmoo | If it isn't like that, it's a one-sided relationship and it's probably not going to work out. |
| 04:47.14 | Lakshmi | but that means the partners need time to give the attention right |
| 04:47.37 | fozzmoo | I don't think time is the critical ingredient. |
| 04:47.41 | Lakshmi | if one parter is uber free and has all the time in the world.. while the other partner is contantly busy for understandable reasons |
| 04:47.42 | fozzmoo | I think it's committment. |
| 04:47.49 | Lakshmi | commitment in the sense? |
| 04:48.10 | Lakshmi | fozzmoo hold that thought, be back in 10 mins |
| 04:48.15 | fozzmoo | If both people are committed to the relationship, to each other, they'll both either make the time... |
| 04:48.29 | fozzmoo | or make the time worth more. |
| 04:48.34 | SpecialK | What do you see in a person who has no ambition to do things with their time when you possess such |
| 04:48.43 | SpecialK | what interests do you have in common |
| 04:48.46 | Lakshmi | time worth more in the sense? |
| 04:49.09 | fozzmoo | http://www.amazon.com/Two-Step-Eileen-McCann/dp/0802130321/ |
| 04:49.21 | fozzmoo | That book is what helped me figure it out. |
| 04:49.39 | fozzmoo | I ran across it after a devastating end to a relationship when I was 19. |
| 04:50.00 | Lakshmi | aw, devasating? |
| 04:50.15 | Lakshmi | and what do you mean time worth more.. explain this one please |
| 04:50.46 | fozzmoo | I mean, if you're only going to be able to see each other once a month, you make those occasions extra special. |
| 04:51.44 | Lakshmi | yeah, i see your point |
| 04:51.55 | klys | quality time: consider playing a board game, you can be stuck with no way to help each other out, or you could be interdependent; there are probably other reasons like intellectually stimulating material, but if you don't matter to the other players, you will probably forget the game |
| 04:52.11 | Lakshmi | ok now bbiab (10 mins) fozzmoo |
| 04:56.20 | *** join/#utah cridrferi (n=Chelle@67.182.192.235) |
| 04:56.33 | fozzmoo | ~kiss cridrferi |
| 04:56.34 | ibot | ACTION forces cridrferi to give brac a big kiss on the neck |
| 04:56.46 | cridrferi | o_O |
| 04:56.58 | klys | :v |
| 04:57.32 | cridrferi | well that was different |
| 04:57.44 | fozzmoo | From what? |
| 04:57.48 | klys | not if it's all the same |
| 05:01.51 | Lakshmi | fozzmoo: back! |
| 05:02.05 | Lakshmi | does that mean .. that all relationships that are commitment based will last? |
| 05:04.37 | klys | based-on is a kind of fallacy in logic |
| 05:04.54 | klys | promoted by, capable of, ... |
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| 05:06.26 | Lakshmi | heh |
| 05:08.22 | Lakshmi | fozzmoo: poke |
| 05:08.52 | Lakshmi | yay! |
| 05:08.57 | Lakshmi | answer the question? |
| 05:10.12 | fozzmoo | I agree with klys |
| 05:10.23 | fozzmoo | Trying to find a quote I like. |
| 05:10.26 | *** join/#utah ti`ocpi (n=Chelle@67.182.192.235) |
| 05:10.27 | klys | how about for all commitments, not all will last |
| 05:11.18 | klys | in a commitment, however, you develop transactional relationships |
| 05:11.46 | klys | and some of them are lasting reasons for the commitment |
| 05:11.51 | fozzmoo | This isn't the exact quote... |
| 05:12.11 | fozzmoo | but it says roughly the same thing: "Do not pray to marry the one that you love, |
| 05:12.11 | fozzmoo | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:13.07 | Lakshmi | isnt that like what arranged marriages are all about |
| 05:13.13 | Lakshmi | dont marry the one you love |
| 05:13.17 | Lakshmi | but love who you marry |
| 05:13.41 | fozzmoo | Here's another one: "Certainly the foods most vital for love are consideration, kindness, thoughtfulness, concern, expressions of affection, embraces of appreciation, admiration, pride, companionship, confidence, faith, partnership, equality, and interdependence. |
| 05:13.43 | klys | its more deontological |
| 05:13.55 | klys | concerns the will |
| 05:13.59 | fozzmoo | I think it goes to show why arranged marriages don't fail like you'd expect they would. |
| 05:15.48 | fozzmoo | Maybe the reason teen romances are often destined to fail... is because one or both of the people involved aren't actually looking for long-term relationships. |
| 05:16.12 | fozzmoo | Or because one or both don't know what they want. |
| 05:16.37 | klys | or beause they're more commited to scholarships and parents' views of the future |
| 05:17.22 | klys | though it is rare that someone is organized enough to be 'committed' in a broad letter-writing sense |
| 05:17.23 | fozzmoo | Or, yeah, because they're still beholden to their mommies and daddies. :) |
| 05:18.36 | fozzmoo | klys: Are you on UTOPIA? |
| 05:18.52 | klys | no, but I've heard of them |
| 05:19.11 | fozzmoo | I just wondered because you appear to be connected via MStar |
| 05:19.18 | fozzmoo | They're a UTOPIA provider. |
| 05:19.21 | klys | j/k I'm at a dorm |
| 05:19.50 | klys | and mstar provides to iprovo |
| 05:19.56 | fozzmoo | Ahhh. |
| 05:21.15 | Lakshmi | yeah, well arrange marriages work cause they have to work in a way |
| 05:21.16 | klys | so I could maybe get you a nameserver if you want from mstar, but I don't think they filter stuff like most people say |
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| 05:23.05 | klys | A person will sometimes devote all his life to the development of one part of his body - the wishbone. - Frost |
| 05:23.51 | fozzmoo | Lakshmi: Which is exactly how people should approach any marriage, really. |
| 05:24.09 | Lakshmi | as an arranged marriage |
| 05:24.11 | Lakshmi | ? |
| 05:24.27 | Lakshmi | well you cant.. cause in an arranged marriage you spend all your time getting to know each other |
| 05:24.30 | fozzmoo | With the same attitude: "This MUST work. There is no alternative." |
| 05:24.42 | Lakshmi | i wish ppl would |
| 05:24.53 | Lakshmi | but then some dude came out with the happy easy way out paper |
| 05:25.00 | Lakshmi | and it doesnt work like that anymore |
| 05:25.08 | fozzmoo | The paper has always been there... |
| 05:25.15 | fozzmoo | but people haven't been as selfish as they are now. |
| 05:25.24 | fozzmoo | And there used to be this thing called shame. :) |
| 05:25.40 | Lakshmi | true |
| 05:25.50 | Lakshmi | but i think in way ppl get bored nowadays |
| 05:26.00 | Lakshmi | cause they date for soo long and then they are engaged for longer |
| 05:26.00 | fozzmoo | uh huh |
| 05:26.13 | Lakshmi | and then by the time they are married they know _everything_ bout there partner |
| 05:26.24 | Lakshmi | but in an arranged marriage they spend most of the itme |
| 05:26.30 | Lakshmi | jus getting to know each other |
| 05:26.35 | fozzmoo | Well, for the first feew months, yeah. |
| 05:26.39 | fozzmoo | But then it's no different. |
| 05:27.35 | Lakshmi | if it only takes a few months to know ppl |
| 05:27.43 | Lakshmi | then why do ppl date for like years and years and years |
| 05:27.54 | Sargun | because its nice |
| 05:28.03 | fozzmoo | heh heh. |
| 05:28.31 | Lakshmi | sargun hows it nice? |
| 05:28.42 | Sargun | how isn't it nice? |
| 05:29.27 | Lakshmi | well, doesnt it get boring after a while |
| 05:29.38 | Lakshmi | and after a few months shouldnt you know if you are compatible or not |
| 05:29.40 | Lakshmi | ? |
| 05:29.58 | Tene | Lakshmi: when you're young, you're still changing and growing and developing quite a bit. |
| 05:30.06 | Tene | I've seen people change quite a bit in just a few months. |
| 05:30.10 | Tene | I've done it myself. |
| 05:30.16 | Lakshmi | why not change together |
| 05:30.20 | Lakshmi | in a relationship |
| 05:30.31 | Lakshmi | i mean relationships arent constnat anyways.. they are ever changing |
| 05:30.31 | Tene | Sometimes you change in different ways. |
| 05:30.43 | Tene | Ways that aren't compatible. |
| 05:30.52 | Tene | Some people aren't mature enough to handle change. |
| 05:31.52 | klys | there's this josh groban song, "you're still you"; it's so romantic, you can confuse others into thinking you're not the same but you always will be, you'll always have the same attitude, spirits you had when you were initiated into being what you can remember |
| 05:31.56 | fozzmoo | Tene's changing right this very now! |
| 05:32.06 | Tene | I totally am! |
| 05:32.21 | Sargun | Suppose as a baby your alpha quality, like you're version 0.1.0, and as a fetus you're 0.0.1 |
| 05:32.28 | Sargun | When would you be considered 1.0.0? |
| 05:32.33 | Tene | klys: there are a lot of songs. Singing about something doesn't make it true. |
| 05:32.36 | Sargun | considering mental dev. |
| 05:32.52 | fozzmoo | Sargun: 1 second after death. :) |
| 05:33.01 | fozzmoo | That's the eureka moment. :) |
| 05:33.09 | klys | tene: I don't try to convince you that I am what I'll be, but it's a lilting attitude to take and no one I know can deny it |
| 05:33.24 | Lakshmi | never |
| 05:33.46 | Tene | What, specifically, hasn't been denied? |
| 05:33.56 | Sargun | dang |
| 05:34.10 | klys | tene: then you join marx in his quest to dethrone god |
| 05:34.36 | Tene | klys: what are you talking about? |
| 05:34.58 | klys | nwhat to say, ask not, ... (you know the quote) |
| 05:35.15 | klys | but ask what you can do for your country |
| 05:35.50 | fozzmoo | Kennedy also said, "Whoa, Marilyn!" |
| 05:36.08 | Sargun | o.O |
| 05:36.16 | Sargun | because I got high? |
| 05:36.37 | Lakshmi | sargun off of what? |
| 05:52.08 | klys | tenative tentacle |
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| 06:27.52 | SpecialK | I know a couple of people who were completely fooled by their spouses in the courtship process. It's good to date long enough that you can be around each other with your guard down and see what the partner is really like. |
| 06:29.05 | Lakshmi | SpecialK: true, however.. wouldnt you get that in an emotional connection if you were friends first per say |
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| 06:35.01 | SpecialK | Just because you develop an emotional connection with someone doesn't mean that they aren't verbally/physically abusive, crazy, and or a pathological liar |
| 06:35.33 | Lakshmi | true |
| 06:35.37 | Lakshmi | what if you are friends before |
| 06:35.40 | Lakshmi | and then you date |
| 06:35.47 | Lakshmi | then you know they arent looney case |
| 06:36.19 | SpecialK | that's fine, |
| 06:36.47 | SpecialK | statistics are against early marriages lasting |
| 06:37.04 | Lakshmi | why? |
| 06:37.36 | SpecialK | the older people are, the more they are settled on their life's path and the better prepared they are to take care of themselves and someone else |
| 06:38.22 | SpecialK | the break in statistics for a favorable age for marriages comes about 23 |
| 06:38.34 | SpecialK | teenage marriages have really bad rates |
| 06:39.41 | SpecialK | I need to dig up that paper I had with the statistics |
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| 13:13.11 | goozbach | SQL question: how do I specify a date in a where clause which accomplishes the following: show me all rows where calldate = yesteray? |
| 13:18.10 | goozbach | nevermind. I figured it out: select * from cdr where calldate > 'yesterday'; |
| 13:18.20 | goozbach | that get's yesterday's and todays |
| 13:20.29 | Sargun | haha |
| 13:20.35 | Sargun | SQL makes little sense |
| 13:20.50 | Sargun | and when it does make sense |
| 13:20.52 | Sargun | its scary |
| 13:21.06 | ^Migs^ | SQL makes sense, but you have to think in radically different paradigms |
| 13:21.26 | ^Migs^ | I usually just end up asking people in #sql for help with difficult queries |
| 13:35.41 | goozbach | I left my copy of that at the house |
| 13:36.02 | goozbach | I need to get back into sql somehow |
| 13:36.33 | ^Migs^ | http://www.theonion.com/content/node/39133 |
| 14:22.51 | ^Migs^ | http://tinyurl.com/pla8c |
| 14:30.21 | *** join/#utah bonez39 (n=aint@c-24-10-147-163.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 14:30.31 | goozbach | bonez39: turn off the pipes |
| 14:30.49 | goozbach | you could cause water damage |
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| 14:55.01 | tristanbob | what is your favorite RSS reader in Linux? |
| 14:55.22 | *** join/#utah bonez39 (n=aint@c-24-10-147-163.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 14:57.17 | ^Migs^ | Akregator |
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| 15:08.49 | beandog | liferea |
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| 15:12.44 | fozzmoo | tristanbob: Firefox and mugshot |
| 15:13.02 | tristanbob | fozzmoo: is that a web service? |
| 15:13.09 | fozzmoo | mugshot is... |
| 15:13.22 | fozzmoo | it's a Red Hat project. http://mugshot.org/ |
| 15:13.38 | fozzmoo | It's a social networking thing, but it ties together almost every other kind of social network under one roof. |
| 15:13.53 | fozzmoo | There's a nice desktop component available for Windows and Linux. |
| 15:21.17 | levi | Morning. |
| 15:30.33 | fozzmoo | Pineapple. |
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| 15:46.00 | levi | Heh, SQL makes lots of sense, though not quite as much as relational calculus. |
| 15:47.00 | fozzmoo | I never made it that far. I only made it to relational algebra. |
| 15:50.10 | levi | The difference is analogous to the difference between predicate logic and first-order logic, IIRC. Relational calculus adds quantifiers and such, so you can state your query declaratively instead of procedurally. |
| 16:03.50 | goozbach | fozzmoo: watch your mouth! |
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| 16:39.36 | ^Migs^ | http://www.reuters.com/article/oddlyEnoughNews/idUSMAN13231720070626 |
| 17:17.09 | ^Migs^ | why did WWE have a three-hour tribute to Chris Benoit when they think he murdered his wife and kid? |
| 17:20.31 | *** join/#utah bonez39 (n=aint@c-24-10-147-163.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 17:21.30 | bonez39 | is there any way to get specific information on the type memory installed on a system, without opening the case? |
| 17:22.01 | mrpull_ | bonez41: i'm not sure, but try lshw |
| 17:22.29 | bonez39 | lshw? |
| 17:22.40 | mrpull_ | the command #lshw |
| 17:23.01 | Supaplex | xrays! |
| 17:23.06 | mrpull_ | i suspect it is shorthand for List Hardware |
| 17:24.18 | mrpull_ | if your distro doesn't have lshw, try cat /proc/meminfo |
| 17:28.44 | goozbach | dmidecode |
| 17:30.32 | *** join/#utah bonez39 (n=aint@c-24-10-147-163.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 17:39.52 | Tene | bonez39: dmidecode |
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| 17:55.12 | *** join/#utah sjansen (n=sjansen@86.43.76.98) |
| 17:55.39 | *** topic/#utah by sjansen -> The channel for OT discussion in Utah | http://plug.org/irc | Utah Open Source Conference - September 6-8, 2007 | This space for rent. |
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| 18:06.57 | bonez39 | Tene, I knew you'd have the answer.... |
| 18:09.03 | goozbach | damn you Tene |
| 18:09.11 | Tene | ~goozbach++ |
| 18:09.20 | goozbach | bonez39: that was my answer |
| 18:09.32 | goozbach | you and your flood didn't see it |
| 18:09.45 | Tene | bonez39: goozbach said it right before you disconnected, then I said it after you came back |
| 18:10.12 | goozbach | sjansen: so can I write a script which will ping you every day to find out if the t61p has come out? |
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| 18:28.34 | Lakshmi | hey |
| 18:30.04 | sjansen | goozbach: You can ping me. It should take about three days for me to setup a filter rule to ignore you. |
| 18:39.47 | goozbach | ohh but there are so many ways of getting ahold of you sjansen. |
| 18:39.54 | goozbach | is three days going to be enough? |
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| 19:07.51 | *** join/#utah fozzmoo (n=fozz@65.89.234.66) |
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| 19:16.44 | bonez39 | qw |
| 19:17.07 | findlay | I added a user on this box to /etc/passwd yet it won't let me log in. It says: "connection reset by peer". Why? |
| 19:17.34 | jlund | Did you add them manually or by using useradd or adduser? |
| 19:17.45 | Tene | findlay: check out /var/log/secure and friends |
| 19:18.57 | findlay | what friends does /var/log/secure have? |
| 19:19.10 | Tene | what friends does findlay have? |
| 19:19.11 | findlay | jlund: I used adduser |
| 19:20.44 | goozbach | fozzmoo: for shame |
| 19:20.48 | findlay | Tene: got it |
| 19:20.56 | Tene | findlay: what was it? |
| 19:20.57 | jlund | findlay: Are you trying to connect through SSH? |
| 19:21.01 | jlund | Oh good |
| 19:21.03 | findlay | PAM |
| 19:21.06 | fozzmoo | What shame? |
| 19:21.10 | fozzmoo | There is no more shame. |
| 19:22.49 | jlund | I don't like PAM |
| 19:22.54 | goozbach | you said pineapple |
| 19:23.00 | goozbach | shamefull |
| 19:23.17 | goozbach | using words like that when small ears such as Tene's are around |
| 19:23.20 | goozbach | tisk tisk |
| 19:23.27 | goozbach | PAM IS AWESOME BTW |
| 19:24.01 | goozbach | PAM gets a bad rap just like SELinux |
| 19:24.04 | fozzmoo | Pam rocks my world... every day. Every night. |
| 19:24.31 | goozbach | give me PAM and SELinux over any other homebrew auth/security system anytime |
| 19:24.42 | fozzmoo | Tene's got enough hair in his ears to protect him from pineapple. |
| 19:24.49 | goozbach | oh ok then |
| 19:25.03 | fozzmoo | I didn't know SELinux got a bad rap. |
| 19:25.32 | fozzmoo | I mean, people criticize me for not splicing my own fiber into the UTOPIA line running in front of our office... |
| 19:25.43 | fozzmoo | but if I could show I could write SELinux policies... |
| 19:25.51 | fozzmoo | they wouldn't knock my geek cred. |
| 19:26.07 | jlund | And I didn't say that I didn't use PAM. Just that I didn't like it. I am still bitter about my 12 hour desperation quest to get SASL support for Postfix compiled from source on Fedora Core 2 years ago. :) |
| 19:26.39 | fozzmoo | The postfix RPM doesn't include SASL support? |
| 19:26.45 | fozzmoo | Sendmail does. |
| 19:26.49 | jlund | Although to be fair that was probably mostly the fault of the SASL package. But PAM errors were what I saw! |
| 19:26.53 | jlund | I'm sure it does now |
| 19:26.56 | goozbach | which one of the perl modules for databases is newer? DBI or DBIx? |
| 19:27.11 | fozzmoo | goozbach: Not really a fair question considering DBIx::Class uses DBI. |
| 19:27.15 | jlund | At the time they didn't |
| 19:27.32 | goozbach | fozzmoo: let me rephrase, which do I want to use |
| 19:27.37 | fozzmoo | For what? |
| 19:27.47 | goozbach | I need to turn a postgres database into an HTML table |
| 19:27.52 | fozzmoo | I rarely use straight DBI anymore. |
| 19:27.53 | goozbach | what's the easiest route |
| 19:28.03 | fozzmoo | DBIx::Class and DBIx::Class::Schema::Loader |
| 19:28.09 | Tene | goozbach: what fozz said |
| 19:28.17 | fozzmoo | goozbach: I agree with Tene |
| 19:28.25 | Tene | goozbach: I agree with Fozz |
| 19:28.33 | goozbach | Tene: do you second fozz's assertsion? |
| 19:28.40 | goozbach | nm I see you do |
| 19:28.57 | goozbach | now if only fozz will back you two up I'll use it |
| 19:28.58 | Tene | I frequently support fozz's assertions. |
| 19:29.28 | findlay | I nth fozzmoo's assertion |
| 19:29.54 | jlund | So I just stumbled in here off of a Google search for Utah Linux User Groups. Are there any events between now and the conference, and where can I see details on the conference? |
| 19:30.10 | Tene | UTOS? |
| 19:30.15 | findlay | ask herlo, he's the utos dude |
| 19:30.29 | Tene | findlay: he should ask herlo about plug meetings? |
| 19:30.39 | fozzmoo | jlund: PLUG has a meeting every 2nd Wed of the month. |
| 19:30.44 | findlay | Tene: about utos |
| 19:31.01 | fozzmoo | Conference is at http://utosc.org/ |
| 19:31.07 | findlay | jlund: where do you live? |
| 19:31.08 | Tene | findlay: he asked about utah user group events between now and the conference |
| 19:31.18 | findlay | there are lugs in Ogden, SL, and Provo |
| 19:31.32 | fozzmoo | Does the OALUG actually do anything on a regular basis? |
| 19:31.37 | findlay | and at USU, UVSC, and BYU |
| 19:31.45 | findlay | I think so |
| 19:32.07 | goozbach | HOLY CRAP! |
| 19:32.09 | jlund | I'm in Salt Lake |
| 19:32.16 | Tene | goozbach: eh? |
| 19:32.18 | findlay | jlund: usually lugs have meetings monthly |
| 19:32.24 | findlay | jlund: sllug.org |
| 19:32.33 | jlund | Thanks! |
| 19:32.36 | fozzmoo | goozbach: You're as surprised as I am about OALUG? |
| 19:32.40 | goozbach | fozzmoo, Tene: I didn't know this class::loader::schema had so many dependancies |
| 19:32.45 | fozzmoo | heh. |
| 19:32.46 | fozzmoo | Yeah. |
| 19:32.51 | fozzmoo | But when it's built... it's magic. |
| 19:33.20 | goozbach | and what's this Object::Deadly? |
| 19:33.26 | findlay | heh |
| 19:33.32 | goozbach | I don't know I want that installed on my system |
| 19:33.48 | fozzmoo | I haven't seen that one. |
| 19:33.57 | fozzmoo | Sounds wicked, tho. :) |
| 19:34.09 | Tene | http://search.cpan.org/~jjore/Object-Deadly-0.09/lib/Object/Deadly.pm |
| 19:34.24 | goozbach | http://search.cpan.org/~jjore/Object-Deadly-0.09/lib/Object/Deadly.pm |
| 19:34.29 | findlay | jinx |
| 19:34.39 | goozbach | 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 |
| 19:34.40 | fozzmoo | When the loader is installed, you can do this: perl -MDBIx::Class::Schema::Loader=make_schema_at,dump_to_dir:../perl -e 'make_schema_at("MyClass::Schema", { relationships => 1 }, [ "dbi:Pg:dbname=mydatabase" ])' |
| 19:34.43 | goozbach | milkshake |
| 19:34.56 | jlund | findlay: sllug.org hasn't been updated in a while. It says the next meeting is April 18th 2007. :) |
| 19:35.11 | findlay | jlund: well, the mailing list is a little more active |
| 19:35.24 | fozzmoo | Yeah. the sllug-members and plug mailing lists are fairly active. |
| 19:35.27 | goozbach | and fozz, what will that do? |
| 19:35.31 | fozzmoo | No flame wars or anything like that. ;-) |
| 19:35.52 | fozzmoo | That will inspect all the tables in your database and build DBIx::Class objects for you. |
| 19:36.03 | fozzmoo | Not just in memory. It will generate the .pm files for you. |
| 19:36.12 | fozzmoo | Including all the relationships. |
| 19:36.13 | goozbach | oh really? |
| 19:36.18 | goozbach | hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm |
| 19:36.23 | fozzmoo | So, your database better be good. |
| 19:36.41 | goozbach | it's pretty simple |
| 19:36.49 | goozbach | one table, one sequence, one prikey |
| 19:37.05 | goozbach | it's actually the CDR database for asterisk |
| 19:40.44 | goozbach | is there some sort of dumper module that builds on DBIx::Class which will output my data into html or am I going to have to bridge it to something else? |
| 19:41.28 | Tene | http://search.cpan.org/~dmuey/Data-Dumper-HTML-v0.0.2/lib/Data/Dumper/HTML.pm |
| 19:42.41 | findlay | Tene: you should create a module called Dump::Truck |
| 19:42.53 | findlay | and then you can dump it all over the intertubes |
| 19:44.30 | fozzmoo | goozbach: If it were me, I'd just use template toolkit. |
| 19:45.45 | fozzmoo | http://www.template-toolkit.org/docs/plain/Modules/Template/Plugin/Table.html |
| 19:45.46 | brac | [Template Toolkit Modules] |
| 19:47.08 | fozzmoo | Eww. One of the examples calls DBI from inside the template to run an SQL query. Yuck. |
| 19:47.29 | fozzmoo | Might as well use PHP at that point. |
| 19:48.25 | jlund | Are any of you guys using Kubuntu? |
| 19:49.05 | jlund | It is actually a KDE question, so let me rephrase that. Are any of you guys using KDE? |
| 19:49.34 | findlay | fozzmoo has kde answers |
| 19:49.52 | fozzmoo | Dunno if I have answers. I might just be able to sympathize, tho. :) |
| 19:50.01 | fozzmoo | "Yeah, I hate that too." |
| 19:50.47 | jlund | fozzmoo: Alright! I'm having a weird issue where Kontact (specifically the Calendar) refuses to fire reminder windows. I set alarms and nothing happens. Sometimes they show up 6 hours later (which is the GMT offset). Anyway this is happening on two machines and I'm stumped. |
| 19:50.58 | jlund | I may have to file a bug report with Ubuntu. |
| 19:51.28 | fozzmoo | jlund: I also use kontact/korganizer. |
| 19:51.33 | fozzmoo | I'm not having that problem. |
| 19:51.46 | fozzmoo | But it sounds like it may be the way your system has its locale set. |
| 19:53.48 | *** join/#utah tuxd00d (n=tuxinato@128.187.178.29) |
| 19:55.12 | jlund | What makes it really intriguing is my time is displayed correctly and the appointments all show up. I can see the little red line ticking toward pending events and then it passes right by. tzconfig has my locale set to Boise. What distro are you using? |
| 19:55.25 | fozzmoo | Fedora. |
| 19:55.27 | goozbach | how does one tell someone that they don't "need" and iPhone? |
| 19:55.45 | jlund | fozzmoo: How do you like that? |
| 19:55.46 | findlay | goozbach: I don't need one |
| 19:56.00 | fozzmoo | jlund: I'm kind of like... a Fedora evangelist. :) |
| 19:56.13 | findlay | s/(need)/\1, want, care/ |
| 19:56.39 | fozzmoo | goozbach: No FLAC or OGG support? No thank ye. |
| 19:56.49 | fozzmoo | No third party app support? |
| 19:56.53 | fozzmoo | Bleh. |
| 19:56.54 | findlay | fozzmoo: and like it would be that hard to add support |
| 19:57.17 | fozzmoo | Read this: http://www.nypost.com/seven/06262007/news/columnists/dont_get_hung_up_on_buying_an_iphone_columnists_glenn_fleishman.htm |
| 19:57.33 | Tene | goozbach: I've recently started enforcing a policy of drowning people who use "and" for "an". |
| 19:57.38 | fozzmoo | findlay: If they did those two things... I think I could pack one around. |
| 19:57.47 | fozzmoo | Oh, and if they offered it on a non-ATT/Cingular carrier. |
| 19:58.08 | findlay | I have no interest in cell phones whatsoever |
| 19:58.27 | fozzmoo | I could not function without my Treo. |
| 19:58.38 | goozbach | s/and/an/ |
| 19:58.46 | findlay | once wimax gets depolyed I'll have a wifi device that makes secure connections to my home phone |
| 19:58.53 | findlay | home server, I mean |
| 19:58.54 | jlund | fozzmoo: Has yum improved at all since Fedora Core 2? I have been very impressive with apt. |
| 19:58.56 | Tene | ~goozbach=+ |
| 19:59.01 | Tene | jlund: quite |
| 19:59.01 | fozzmoo | jlund: Oh yeah. |
| 19:59.09 | Tene | Extreme improvements since then. |
| 19:59.13 | goozbach | verymuchso |
| 19:59.14 | fozzmoo | findlay: wimax? heh. |
| 19:59.17 | findlay | jlund: though still not as good as apt |
| 19:59.40 | fozzmoo | findlay: I dunno... yum's pretty comprehensive and fast as of FC6 |
| 20:00.11 | findlay | fozzmoo: yeah but there's still a few things left that need to be worked over |
| 20:00.18 | jlund | I'm also running this on a Macbook. So that may be adventurous. Ubuntu on Macbook is pretty well supported. |
| 20:00.40 | Tene | findlay: such as? If you're not more specific, you'd seem to be claiming that there are no problems with apt. |
| 20:00.41 | findlay | fozzmoo: why do you wonder that? |
| 20:01.00 | fozzmoo | Most of what I've heard about WiMAX has been Qwest touting it as the "UTOPIA-Killer" |
| 20:01.04 | herlo | Tene: I know when all meetings are btw. |
| 20:01.17 | fozzmoo | herlo... the omnimeetingknower. |
| 20:01.26 | *** join/#utah ti`ocpi (n=Chelle@67.182.192.235) |
| 20:01.26 | findlay | Tene: apt has been pretty stable and feature complete for years, whereas yum has been making gradual improvements over the past 5 years |
| 20:01.38 | herlo | fozzmoo: at least for Utah Open Source groups I do |
| 20:01.38 | jlund | fozzmoo: What makes you prefer Fedora over other distros? I jumped straight from Gentoo to Ubuntu and haven't really explored since then so I am very curious. |
| 20:01.47 | findlay | fozzmoo: I see, but it's still an awesome technology |
| 20:02.18 | findlay | fozzmoo: by no means a UTOPIA-killer. Anyone who says that doesn't understand the technoloy or intends to FUD about technology |
| 20:02.27 | fozzmoo | Thus, Qwest. :) |
| 20:02.34 | findlay | :-) |
| 20:02.50 | fozzmoo | "Fiber is dead technology! The future is copper and wireless!" |
| 20:03.12 | findlay | well, what they don't say is that wimax will also make it so much easier and cheaper for municipalities to roll their own networks |
| 20:03.18 | fozzmoo | followed by "We have several convenient methods for you to make your payment." |
| 20:03.53 | findlay | that doesn't bother me much at all. What does bother me is that people belive their FUD |
| 20:04.03 | findlay | especially people in power |
| 20:07.00 | findlay | copper is becoming a premium resource worldwide |
| 20:07.18 | findlay | fiberglass comes in a relative abundance |
| 20:08.54 | levi | When I see the word 'fiberglass', optical-grade fiber does not come to mind. |
| 20:09.24 | herlo | jlund: Ubuntu and Fedora are addressing similar needs now, but Fedora initially addressed the server side where Ubuntu looked at the desktop |
| 20:09.36 | findlay | levi: but optical-grade does not refer to the availibility of raw materials, but the quality of manufacture |
| 20:10.22 | findlay | at least I though it did |
| 20:11.10 | fozzmoo | http://mfile.akamai.com/6713/wma/glennbeck.download.akamai.com/6713/preview/07/06/amahole.asx |
| 20:11.14 | fozzmoo | Play that. |
| 20:11.20 | fozzmoo | goozbach: especially you! |
| 20:11.36 | goozbach | I'm not an ahole |
| 20:12.15 | fozzmoo | no. You're not. |
| 20:12.15 | goozbach | that and I'd get in trouble for playing that right now |
| 20:12.15 | levi | findlay: "fiberglass" pretty much always refers to the extremely fine fibers that are used for insulation or composite materials. |
| 20:12.15 | fozzmoo | Why? |
| 20:12.32 | goozbach | cause I'm not really supposed to "stream" anything |
| 20:12.41 | fozzmoo | goozbach: Ahh. |
| 20:12.59 | fozzmoo | Maybe I can provide a transcription. |
| 20:13.03 | jlund | fozzmoo: Do you have Kontact synchronizing with an IMAP server or something similar to share calendars and tasks between multiple computers? |
| 20:13.26 | fozzmoo | Amnesty Society Safe Harbor Of Legal Equality |
| 20:14.48 | tensai | I feel like I've stepped into the Twilight Zone: (Field1 varchar(255), ..., Field15 varchar(255)) |
| 20:14.59 | levi | findlay: fiber-optic cable may be either glass or plastic, and may be a different kind of glass than fiberglass, as well. As well as requiring some other materials besides the glass. |
| 20:15.29 | findlay | levi: yes but not copper :) |
| 20:20.27 | sjansen | *burp* |
| 20:20.29 | findlay | basically what I was trying to say is that optical fiber is probably eaiser to manufacture in terms of raw materials than twisted pair |
| 20:20.44 | elg | -lart git |
| 20:21.03 | Tene | elg: Why? |
| 20:21.14 | elg | so after probably half an hour git-cvsimport gives me a broken repository |
| 20:21.19 | sjansen | 'Cause git was written by crack monkeys? |
| 20:21.27 | elg | apparently correctness wasn't high on the list for git-cvsimport |
| 20:21.31 | sjansen | Just a guess. |
| 20:21.53 | Tene | so you're upset with git-cvsimport, not git |
| 20:22.02 | elg | part and parcel |
| 20:22.12 | sjansen | findlay: Probably not. Tolerances for twisted pair copper are probably much higher than fiber. |
| 20:22.14 | levi | elg: It worked for me, when I used it. |
| 20:22.37 | levi | sjansen: It probably depends on the type and grade of the fiber cable. |
| 20:22.50 | elg | that's where I learned, "unfortunately that doesn't always work" |
| 20:22.56 | sjansen | Got a crack in your copper? No biggey, electrons'll flow. Crack in your fiber? Photons will fly like shrapnel. |
| 20:23.00 | jlund | I'll be back. |
| 20:23.13 | elg | known problem. cvsimport isn't always correct |
| 20:23.17 | Tene | Oh, right, already there. |
| 20:23.29 | findlay | sjansen: now you're talking on the quality of manufacturing, not the availibility of raw materials |
| 20:23.40 | findlay | which was my point (again) |
| 20:24.16 | elg | maybe i'll try again, overnight |
| 20:24.18 | sjansen | I don't have the link any more, but I saw a picture of a backplane shredded by uncontrolled photons. Almost blinded a tech. His facial hair still only grows in patches. |
| 20:24.54 | Tene | elg: when most people will never use git-cvsimport in any of their normal git usage, I'd consider it not to be very relevant to git |
| 20:25.23 | Tene | "Here's git. Also, he's an additional import tool that you might possibly want to use sometime. It might work." |
| 20:25.25 | elg | I know more people using git-cvsimport than using git alone |
| 20:25.38 | Tene | I've never used cvsimport. |
| 20:25.53 | elg | fact is most idiots running the projects are still in the dark ages. cvs. maybe svn |
| 20:25.58 | sjansen | Tene: You've just described all of git. "Here's a random tool that might work with other git tools." |
| 20:26.15 | elg | while the forward thinkers want to use something distributed. |
| 20:26.34 | elg | anyway, I'd be happy to say git-cvsimport is broken and not generalize to git, if git-core didn't include git-cvsimport |
| 20:26.46 | elg | if something's not stable, don't include it in the core. so my lart stands |
| 20:26.47 | *** join/#utah nick125 (n=nick@continental.nick125.com) |
| 20:27.25 | findlay | maybe git's just not 'done' yet |
| 20:27.46 | Tene | findlay: the current version is 1.5.2.2 |
| 20:27.56 | levi | elg: Have you looked at the other distributed revision control systems? |
| 20:27.57 | findlay | besides, I don't need version control. I remember. Everything |
| 20:27.57 | elg | nothing is done |
| 20:28.02 | fozzmoo | http://www.macdailynews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/sprint_begins_talking_points_campaign_against_apple_iphone/ |
| 20:28.18 | brac | [MacDailyNews - Sprint begins ‘talking points’ campaign against Apple iPhone; expects initial customer loss up to 6%] |
| 20:28.27 | elg | levi: darcs is my favorite, but this situation is to interact with another noncomitting developer that's also using git |
| 20:28.31 | levi | iPhone: The only phone people actively campaign against. |
| 20:28.42 | sjansen | MT's going to be GPL?! |
| 20:28.52 | Tene | elg: so why don't you clone his git repo? |
| 20:28.55 | levi | elg: Can't he just use git to generate patches that you can apply? |
| 20:29.04 | Tene | that too |
| 20:29.07 | sjansen | Finally, a decent blogging tool with a decent license! |
| 20:29.17 | elg | this was independent of his repo, a cvs repository for a dependency |
| 20:29.24 | elg | figured I'd use git to be internally consistent |
| 20:29.49 | elg | but now his cvsimported repository is suspect too |
| 20:29.49 | goozbach | sjansen: I thought I brought that to your attention weeks ago |
| 20:29.59 | elg | I can't trust git-cvsimport to not have messed it up and he just hasn't noticed |
| 20:30.00 | goozbach | I guess you must not have seen it |
| 20:30.08 | goozbach | I'm excited too |
| 20:30.10 | elg | in fact, it would explain some symptoms I'm seeing in one of the CVS branches |
| 20:30.12 | goozbach | I'm going back |
| 20:30.18 | levi | sjansen: Does MT still rebuild your whole site when a comment is left? |
| 20:30.34 | elg | does MT still beat your wife every night? |
| 20:30.47 | findlay | but only when it's sober |
| 20:30.54 | sjansen | levi: *shrug* I prefer static generation. And I don't remember it building the whole site, just modified pages. |
| 20:31.18 | findlay | ~cache sjansen |
| 20:31.20 | levi | sjansen: Right before they changed their licensing terms and everyone I knew that was using it abandoned it, it was having serious performance issues with sites that got lots of comments. |
| 20:33.14 | goozbach | is this going to be another X.org Xfree86 X.org switch? |
| 20:33.15 | elg | i think git is cool, if quirky. but I don't let things off the hook just because they're cool. bad is still bad |
| 20:33.25 | *** join/#utah nick125_ (n=nick@unaffiliated/nick125) |
| 20:33.43 | nick125_ | Ugh, I need a new UPS. |
| 20:34.46 | goozbach | or a decent VPS on a correctly hosted server :) |
| 20:35.42 | nick125_ | goozbach: I don't need a VPS. |
| 20:35.51 | nick125_ | Nor really want one. |
| 20:38.20 | nick125_ | Hmm. I have two machines, a switch, and a wireless AP running on the UPS, what capacity do you think I would need? |
| 20:39.10 | tensai | nick125_: how long do you want it to run? 10 seconds, 10 minutes, 10 hours? |
| 20:39.38 | nick125_ | Probably 5-10 minutes |
| 20:39.45 | nick125_ | The power outages here aren't too long. |
| 20:40.13 | findlay | 10 years? |
| 20:40.24 | findlay | 10 milleniums |
| 20:40.26 | levi | elg: I think git is cool in theory, but as I use it I keep coming up against annoying ways in which its behavior surprises me. |
| 20:40.44 | findlay | ~convert 1024 milleniums to yoctoseconds |
| 20:40.55 | findlay | ~convert 1024 millenia to yoctoseconds |
| 20:40.55 | elg | yeah, it's a case of underdesign. just barely |
| 20:41.10 | findlay | ~convert 1024 years to yoctoseconds |
| 20:41.19 | elg | solid theory, high pragmatism for the kernel group |
| 20:41.20 | findlay | ~convert 1024 years to yottaseconds |
| 20:41.29 | findlay | hm |
| 20:41.41 | elg | but not thought through quite well enough to be generally applicable without surprising behavior |
| 20:42.17 | tensai | nick125_: I've got a BackUPS 450 which has been known to power two computers and a couple phones for 20 minutes |
| 20:42.26 | levi | elg: I'm sure it works precisely how the kernel team expects it to, but I think their mode of development is sufficiently different from most to make it do things in an odd way to the typical user. |
| 20:42.29 | nick125_ | One machine is my server, single p4-based celeron. Other machine is a p2 300mhz box as a gateway. |
| 20:43.54 | nick125_ | I'm looking at the APC Back-UPS RS 1300VA |
| 20:44.52 | nick125_ | at full load (780 watts), it takes 6.4 minutes to decharge |
| 20:46.20 | findlay | so don't be burning a DVD and listening to Beethoven at full volume when the power's out |
| 20:47.53 | *** join/#utah phinux (n=jamie@151.155.188.155) |
| 20:49.57 | nick125_ | The power outages here are usually less than 30 seconds |
| 21:01.00 | tensai | I suspect you won't use anywhere near 780 watts |
| 21:01.33 | findlay | I wouldn't mind 780 W of Beethoven |
| 21:11.07 | *** join/#utah jlund (n=jlund@166-70-80-3.ip.xmission.com) |
| 21:12.22 | *** join/#utah lost^alien (n=jared@c-67-186-254-155.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 21:12.42 | jlund | So my issues with Kontact reminders not showing up appears to have been caused by the fact that the hardware clock was showing up as AM/PM but the system clock was 24 hours. Once I changed my regional settings in the KDE control panel to use AM/PM everything started working. Now I just want to figure out how to set it up to use disconnected IMAP so that my laptop and home computer can have a synchronized schedule. |
| 21:13.06 | nick125_ | Great, compusa is denying my warranty again and wnats me to take the proof of purchase in :/ |
| 21:13.39 | nick125_ | I'm really getting tired of this.. |
| 21:13.45 | Tene | stab them |
| 21:13.51 | findlay | ~stab them |
| 21:13.51 | ibot | ACTION runs at them with an origami Swiss Army knife, and inflicts a nasty paper cut. |
| 21:14.14 | *** join/#utah ti`ocpi (n=Chelle@67.182.192.235) |
| 21:14.22 | mrpull_ | warranties are a joke... they and rebates are never expected to be honored in my cynical world |
| 21:24.37 | *** join/#utah cridrferi (n=Chelle@67.182.192.235) |
| 21:28.58 | ph4se | how can I keep my own vim environment when using sudo? |
| 21:28.58 | ph4se | i.e. "sudo vi /etc/hosts" doesn't include the syntax highlighting, etc. |
| 21:29.02 | ph4se | I have tried copying my .vimrc to /root/.vimrc , but that doesn't seem to do it. |
| 21:29.03 | *** join/#utah WashiChan (n=Chelle@67.182.192.235) |
| 21:29.35 | ph4se | is there some environment variable I'm missing? |
| 21:30.48 | Tene | ph4se: you want to use visudo, not just vi |
| 21:31.21 | findlay | ph4se: sudo -i |
| 21:32.39 | *** join/#utah fozzmoo (n=fozz@166-70-238-250.ip.xmission.com) |
| 21:32.45 | *** join/#utah fozzmo1 (n=fozz@166-70-238-250.ip.xmission.com) |
| 21:32.45 | *** join/#utah fozzmo3 (n=fozz@166-70-238-250.ip.xmission.com) |
| 21:32.45 | *** join/#utah fozzmo2 (n=fozz@166-70-238-250.ip.xmission.com) |
| 21:32.51 | Tene | manyfozz |
| 21:33.01 | *** join/#utah fozzmoo (n=fozz@166-70-238-250.ip.xmission.com) |
| 21:33.02 | tensai | stampede! |
| 21:33.22 | fozzmoo | I hate how gaim does that sometimes. |
| 21:37.48 | ph4se | thanks Tene and findlay |
| 21:38.14 | fozzmoo | ph4se: What did THEY do? |
| 21:38.14 | Tene | I hate how gaim pretends to be an IRC client. :) |
| 21:38.18 | findlay | ph4se: now you owe me lunch because I'm hungry, or something |
| 21:38.33 | fozzmoo | Tene: you know it's not a BAD IRC client... as far as GUI clients go. |
| 21:38.45 | Tene | I consider it to be. |
| 21:38.49 | fozzmoo | xchat is better. |
| 21:38.52 | findlay | xchat was pretty good for the little time I used it |
| 21:38.53 | Tene | Oh, s/gaim/pidgin/g |
| 21:38.57 | Tene | I guess |
| 21:39.10 | fozzmoo | But I accept its shortcomings for its multiprotocol yumminess |
| 21:39.11 | findlay | mirc was teh UGLY |
| 21:40.08 | findlay | at least it depressed me with a bunch of configuration options before it would even take off |
| 21:40.11 | fozzmoo | Plus, I don't live in IRC. I used to. When I did, I was epic+Light+screen |
| 21:40.21 | Tene | "Light"? |
| 21:40.34 | fozzmoo | epic script. Added a bunch of goodies |
| 21:41.12 | Tene | ^Migs^: it's not mutual |
| 21:41.16 | findlay | ~love ^Migs^ |
| 21:41.17 | ibot | If you love ^Migs^ so much, why don't you marry it? (oooooh) |
| 21:42.40 | Lakshmi | haha |
| 21:42.53 | findlay | ~haha Lakshmi |
| 21:42.54 | ibot | ACTION beats Lakshmi about the head with the ha ha bat |
| 21:43.09 | Lakshmi | aw |
| 21:43.35 | herlo | and then gives up and moves on... |
| 21:43.41 | Lakshmi | hi herlo sup? |
| 21:43.56 | herlo | Lakshmi: hey, just finished class for the day... |
| 21:44.10 | Lakshmi | oh cool what class? |
| 21:46.24 | goozbach | fozzmoo: get yourself some irssi |
| 21:46.27 | goozbach | and screen |
| 21:46.38 | Tene | ~goozbach-- |
| 21:50.38 | herlo | Lakshmi: RH133 |
| 21:50.52 | Lakshmi | was it fun? |
| 21:51.27 | Lakshmi | cool cool |
| 21:51.29 | Lakshmi | im bored |
| 21:52.35 | findlay | ~entertain Lakshmi |
| 21:52.35 | ibot | ACTION grabs 5 random objects and begins to weave them through the air in a display of superior juggling skill for Lakshmi's entertainment whilst whistling Einzug der Gladiatoren by Julius Fu?ík |
| 21:53.02 | herlo | Lakshmi: fly to New Jersey tonight, come to the RH133 I am teaching and tomorrow night I'll take you to NYC to have dinner with me and Zelut (of #ubuntu-utah fame) |
| 21:53.55 | fozzmoo | Wow. I hope he doesn't miss his flight. |
| 21:54.08 | findlay | herlo: afterwhich you are going to the New York Philharmonic |
| 21:54.19 | *** join/#utah Lakshmi_ (n=chatzill@adsl-69-109-172-50.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 21:54.27 | fozzmoo | Hurry Lakshmi_! Hurry! Get on the plane! |
| 21:55.17 | Lakshmi | fozzmoo: why! |
| 21:55.23 | herlo | findlay: on your dime... |
| 21:55.34 | herlo | Lakshmi: fly to New Jersey tonight, come to the RH133 I am teaching and tomorrow night I'll take you to NYC to have dinner with me and Zelut (of #ubuntu-utah fame) |
| 21:55.46 | Lakshmi | oooh oohh! yay! |
| 21:55.47 | herlo | Lakshmi: I said that once before already |
| 21:55.52 | Lakshmi | where in jersey? |
| 21:56.35 | Lakshmi | and where in the city are we going!? |
| 21:56.53 | herlo | Lakshmi: where would you liek to go? |
| 21:57.04 | herlo | Lakshmi: I am in Edison right now |
| 21:57.15 | herlo | about 20 minutes south of Newark Airport |
| 21:58.39 | Lakshmi | ooh cool cool.. uhh i wanna go to broadway |
| 21:59.52 | herlo | Lakshmi: Cats? |
| 22:00.00 | *** join/#utah Lakshmi_ (n=chatzill@adsl-69-109-172-50.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 22:00.27 | herlo | Lakshmi_: Cats? |
| 22:00.40 | fozzmoo | Cats. It's a broadway show, herlo. |
| 22:01.10 | *** part/#utah fozzmoo (n=fozz@166-70-238-250.ip.xmission.com) |
| 22:01.27 | findlay | dogs |
| 22:01.34 | herlo | fozzmoo is a punk |
| 22:01.46 | *** join/#utah Lakshmi_ (n=chatzill@adsl-69-109-118-210.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 22:01.53 | herlo | makes a snide remark and leaves |
| 22:02.01 | herlo | ~lart fozzmoo for running away |
| 22:02.01 | ibot | whips fozzmoo with a wet and grimy noodle just because for running away |
| 22:02.05 | Lakshmi_ | oh legally blonde the musical.. is still playing right |
| 22:02.16 | mrpull_ | cats is definitely the worst show i've seen |
| 22:02.17 | herlo | Lakshmi: unknown |
| 22:02.22 | mrpull_ | cats are creepy |
| 22:02.26 | herlo | mrpull_: no intention of seeing Cats |
| 22:02.33 | mrpull_ | people dressed as cats is worse |
| 22:02.37 | herlo | :) |
| 22:02.54 | findlay | herlo: how come you never take me to broadway? :( |
| 22:02.59 | Lakshmi_ | hah |
| 22:03.08 | herlo | findlay: because you've never asked |
| 22:03.20 | findlay | herlo: I probably wouldn't like it anyway :) |
| 22:03.30 | Lakshmi | yay! im back |
| 22:03.34 | Lakshmi | and yes cats is a bad musical |
| 22:03.36 | Lakshmi | not cats |
| 22:04.04 | findlay | if you were talking about the NY Philharmonic, that's a different story :) |
| 22:04.48 | mrpull_ | and what's with the names of those cats? |
| 22:05.05 | mrpull_ | i'd kill my kid before I let him name a cat rumpleteaser |
| 22:05.49 | *** join/#utah neybar (n=jalance@pollux.northsky.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 22:06.12 | mrpull_ | or Mugojerrie? |
| 22:06.26 | Lakshmi | haha |
| 22:06.26 | mrpull_ | i actually enjoy musicals, but cats isn't one of them |
| 22:08.29 | levi | Cats was pretty bizarre, but I didn't actively dislike it. |
| 22:09.23 | mrpull_ | some of the tunes are catchy... Memories actually is great |
| 22:09.35 | mrpull_ | but cats... i just don't like 'em. |
| 22:09.39 | mrpull_ | it's a personal problem |
| 22:09.58 | findlay | ~eliza mrpull_ |
| 22:10.13 | mrpull_ | one summer I somehow managed to get free tickets to 3-4 shows |
| 22:10.39 | mrpull_ | cats / phantom / les mis/ miss saigon |
| 22:10.44 | mrpull_ | all the popular ones |
| 22:10.55 | mrpull_ | it's easy to rank cats at the bottom |
| 22:11.24 | levi | mrpull_: I saw all those that season, too. I had a friend who would get the best seats possible in group ticket packages and resell them to friends at cost. |
| 22:11.31 | herlo | levi: how about something a bit more baroque? |
| 22:11.39 | herlo | oops, I meant Lakshmi |
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| 22:12.00 | herlo | ~define baroque |
| 22:12.01 | ibot | Use ~dict for definitions. |
| 22:12.07 | herlo | ~dict baroque |
| 22:12.14 | herlo | :) |
| 22:12.20 | levi | mrpull_: And that was back before I was married, so I had money to blow on such things. ;) |
| 22:12.24 | mrpull_ | levi: that is a good arrangement |
| 22:12.31 | Lakshmi | herlo: sounds good |
| 22:12.40 | mrpull_ | i benefitted from some good corporate relationships |
| 22:12.42 | levi | The tickets were still expensive, but we often had front-row seats. |
| 22:12.49 | mrpull_ | and got to see most for free |
| 22:12.50 | herlo | Lakshmi: sweet |
| 22:12.51 | findlay | levi: where? |
| 22:13.25 | levi | findlay: Most were at the Capitol Theater. |
| 22:14.04 | levi | I certainly didn't have the money to travel to see shows. |
| 22:14.05 | mrpull_ | i've seen a couple shows at pioneer theater in the last couple years... they've put on good shows as well |
| 22:14.31 | mrpull_ | perhaps i'm not too picky, but Capitol Theater and Pioneer have been great for me |
| 22:14.43 | levi | I go to Hale Center shows occasionally, and have season tickets to Desert Star. |
| 22:15.10 | herlo | Lakshmi: we'll see you in Edison in the morning then... |
| 22:15.15 | mrpull_ | i haven't been to desert star for 4-5 years... is it still fun? don't they have a restaurant now? |
| 22:15.23 | levi | Anyone who claims Capitol Theater shows aren't good enough is just being snooty. |
| 22:15.41 | levi | I haven't been to any of the dinner theater shows, but the cabaret theater shows are still pretty fun. |
| 22:15.59 | Lakshmi | herlo sounds good |
| 22:16.05 | Lakshmi | ooh i wanna go to a concert too |
| 22:16.19 | mrpull_ | i'm going to see willie nelson in july |
| 22:16.26 | mrpull_ | that is a fun concert :) |
| 22:17.15 | findlay | levi: I've heard the Pioneer Theater is pretty good |
| 22:17.18 | herlo | Lakshmi: who? |
| 22:17.36 | levi | I don't think I've ever been to a show at Pioneer Theater. |
| 22:17.45 | Lakshmi | herlo not willie nelso |
| 22:17.49 | Lakshmi | nothing classical |
| 22:17.54 | Lakshmi | something like yay! |
| 22:18.04 | mrpull_ | findlay: it isn't as opulent as capitol, but the sets and effects are every bit as good |
| 22:18.12 | levi | I've really enjoyed the Hale Center shows I've been to, like The Scarlet Pimpernel and Don Quixote. |
| 22:18.26 | herlo | Lakshmi: Why not, don't you like willie? |
| 22:18.43 | mrpull_ | i've seen les mis and both pioneer and capitol and enjoyed both the same |
| 22:18.47 | levi | Is 'yay!' a band I haven't heard of? |
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| 22:20.27 | Lakshmi | willie nelson boring |
| 22:20.31 | mrpull_ | herlo: have you seen willie live? it's good timin' music. |
| 22:20.47 | Lakshmi | i think the only song that i even remember him doing.. is that one with the dukes of hazzard one |
| 22:20.50 | Lakshmi | and that was sad |
| 22:20.53 | herlo | mrpull_: nope, but I hear he's awesome |
| 22:21.44 | mrpull_ | Lakshmi: that is waylon jennings |
| 22:21.55 | Lakshmi | your wrong |
| 22:22.04 | levi | Heh. |
| 22:22.12 | mrpull_ | really? |
| 22:22.52 | herlo | Lakshmi: its not Willie for sure |
| 22:23.12 | herlo | Lakshmi: I believe mrpull_ is correct |
| 22:23.16 | Lakshmi | yeah it is |
| 22:23.23 | Lakshmi | the annoying song with jessica simpson |
| 22:23.28 | Lakshmi | has willie nelson in it |
| 22:23.36 | Lakshmi | from dukes of hazzard! |
| 22:23.37 | herlo | http://www.thedukesofhazzard.net/themesong.html |
| 22:23.38 | brac | [Dukes of Hazzard theme song and chords] |
| 22:23.43 | mrpull_ | ooohh... i though you meant the theme song to the dukes |
| 22:23.48 | mrpull_ | good ol' boys! |
| 22:24.11 | mrpull_ | "Fightin' the system like two modern-day robin hoods!" |
| 22:24.53 | mrpull_ | Lakshmi: did you ever watch the original dukes? |
| 22:25.01 | herlo | The have it in a ring tone |
| 22:25.05 | herlo | :) |
| 22:25.07 | levi | I think that's a bit before Lakshmi's time. |
| 22:25.08 | Lakshmi | mrpull nope! |
| 22:25.14 | Lakshmi | levi your right! |
| 22:25.51 | mrpull_ | the dukes are timeless! |
| 22:25.52 | herlo | http://www.hazzardretreat.com/sounds/WaylonJennings-Themgoodolboys.mp3 |
| 22:26.56 | herlo | instrumental |
| 22:30.52 | elg | anyone know how to check the value of a macro in C? |
| 22:31.24 | levi | I'm not sure what you mean by the value of a macro. |
| 22:31.31 | elg | c preprocessor |
| 22:31.48 | elg | I'm in macro maze hell trying to figure out what some macro is set to |
| 22:31.49 | levi | Well, yes, but do you mean what a symbol is #defined to, or what? |
| 22:32.01 | elg | right |
| 22:32.54 | findlay | why not just printf(SYMBOL)? |
| 22:33.12 | levi | You can't find the #define that sets it, or that line is too complex to see what the final expansion will be? |
| 22:33.40 | elg | the maze that leads to the line is too complex, I want to short circuit reading 25 different header files scattered across the system |
| 22:34.16 | elg | I tried #error APIENTRY (APIENTRY is the symbol I want to dereference) |
| 22:34.38 | levi | That's the only thing I could think of, aside from just running cpp and looking through the output. |
| 22:35.44 | levi | K&R doesn't seem to shed any light on it. |
| 22:40.27 | jlp_work | elg: gcc -E will only do the pre-processing, dumping the processed code on stdout for you to peruse |
| 22:40.56 | jlp_work | oh, levi already suggested that |
| 22:42.47 | levi | Unfortunately, due to the lack of a real module system, most real program files become excessively huge when you do that, since you get all the #includes inlined. |
| 22:42.49 | findlay | I'm all anticipation as to whether elg could wrangle the preprocessor for his purposes |
| 22:43.20 | levi | The C preprocessor is evil. |
| 22:45.01 | findlay | why? |
| 22:45.10 | findlay | oh, nevermind :) |
| 22:47.04 | levi | I'm sure you can come up with some good reasons if you think about it. |
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| 22:47.52 | findlay | -chat about popular culture |
| 22:47.53 | brac | popular culture forms idols around those who don't are wrong. have fun with them. |
| 22:48.01 | Tene | http://teddyb.org/~rlpowell/hobbies/debian_arch_up/ |
| 22:48.50 | jlp_work | we used to use the C pre-processor to "uglify" our code when doing a remote port (i.e., we wanted to load our source code on a machine that didn't belong to us for the purposes of doing a port to that particular platform) |
| 22:49.29 | jlp_work | stripped white space, expanded all macros, changed all identifiers to something like "uNNNNN" where NNNNN was a five digit number |
| 22:49.39 | jlp_work | great fun to debug in that kind of environment |
| 22:49.52 | levi | Yeah, I'm sure. |
| 22:50.05 | jlp_work | just don't lose your key :-) |
| 22:50.56 | jlp_work | of course, that was a while back when there were more operating systems that you had to port to |
| 22:51.33 | jlp_work | nowadays pretty much everything is POSIX compliant, and there are really only four or five OSes to be concerned with |
| 22:53.13 | tensai | I'd say Plan 9, BeOS, Minix and LISP are the main contenders |
| 22:54.20 | jlp_work | LISP as in lisp machine? |
| 22:54.34 | jlp_work | (LISP as an OS?) |
| 22:56.30 | tensai | yeah, Lisp machines |
| 22:56.44 | jlp_work | those things were pretty cool |
| 22:56.47 | Tene | Emacs. |
| 22:58.37 | levi | Emacs is more or less like a lisp machine. |
| 22:59.05 | levi | There are some emulators out the for the CADR, one of the MIT Lisp Machines. |
| 22:59.19 | levi | And there are some screencasts out there of using a Symbolics machine. |
| 22:59.47 | levi | You could actually port C code to the Symbolics machine. It had a C compiler, written in Lisp. |
| 22:59.49 | jlp_work | we had a system that worked like a lisp machine when I went to college... but it ran smalltalk instead of lisp. I can't remember what it was called |
| 23:00.10 | levi | jlp_work: A Xerox machine, maybe? |
| 23:00.24 | jlp_work | might have been... it's been a while |
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| 23:01.47 | levi | Xerox Dorado, maybe. |
| 23:03.01 | levi | Xerox also made a couple of Lisp Machines that ran Interlisp. |
| 23:05.47 | levi | Or, perhaps any computer that just ran Squeak when it booted. :) |
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| 23:06.15 | jlp_work | I'm pretty sure it was running smalltalk as the OS |
| 23:06.39 | jlp_work | first windowing system I ever used (even ahead of the apollo domain systems) |
| 23:07.10 | jlp_work | I think we had two of them... I never took a class that used them (grad student stuff only), but I wrangled an account at one point :-) |
| 23:08.43 | levi | I'm not aware of any machines running Smalltalk as the OS aside from Xerox ones, though someone else may have done so. |
| 23:08.52 | levi | Was this at the U? |
| 23:09.08 | jlp_work | MSU (Montana, not Michigan) |
| 23:10.28 | levi | Hmm. Beats me. |
| 23:10.33 | levi | How long ago? |
| 23:10.51 | jlp_work | it probably was a xerox... that's sounding familiar. it was 1984 or so. |
| 23:11.17 | nick125- | I just got out of compusa, talked to a manager, they are going to send my laptop to HP tomorrow |
| 23:11.55 | Tene | yay |
| 23:12.02 | Tene | ~nick125 nick125- |
| 23:12.02 | ibot | ACTION puts nick125- on a VPS with 32MB of ram and makes nick125- use Gentoo on there. |
| 23:12.59 | nick125- | ibot: that's mean |
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| 23:16.41 | tensai | what do you think "medical grade encryption" means? |
| 23:17.19 | nick125- | ROT-13 |
| 23:17.19 | Tene | Satisfies the legal requirements for hospitals and such in the US. |
| 23:18.42 | tensai | strong enough to protect your kidneys from organ theives |
| 23:20.41 | elg | sigh |
| 23:21.00 | elg | what I really need is for gcc to tell me the include path that got me to this dismal state |
| 23:22.20 | jlp_work | elg: gcc -E will tell you that. it reports the line number and file name each time it hits a #include (so it can include the information in the executable for symbolic debuggers) |
| 23:23.45 | levi | jlp_work: Actually, it was probably a Xerox Star, if it was a Xerox machine. |
| 23:24.17 | jlp_work | elg: you probably want to squeeze out blank lines, pipe it to less -s |
| 23:24.24 | elg | jlp_work: yes, but its cryptic format is hard to read when you have 2237 lines of it |
| 23:24.34 | elg | g++ -E ... | grep ^# | wc -l |
| 23:25.09 | levi | I don't think the Alto and Dorado were available commercially. |
| 23:25.37 | jlp_work | elg: are you only interested in which files were looked at? you can clean up that output quite a bit if you don't really care about the order, just want to know what files you should be looking into |
| 23:25.56 | jlp_work | gcc -E ... | grep '^#' | awk '{print $3}' | sort -u |
| 23:26.04 | jlp_work | (or g++, I guess) |
| 23:26.21 | elg | $ grep ^# atis.o | awk '{print $3}' | uniq | wc -l |
| 23:26.21 | elg | 669 |
| 23:26.39 | elg | (atis.o is where it sent the output of -E when I cut and pasted... don't get confused :) |
| 23:26.42 | jlp_work | uniq wants sorted input |
| 23:26.52 | elg | 310 then |
| 23:27.06 | elg | i don't feel like looking at 310 files by hand |
| 23:27.22 | jlp_work | so feed that to grep (xargs is your friend), looking for the particular #define you need |
| 23:27.26 | elg | I know the culprit file, I just want to know the path of files to where it was included |
| 23:27.33 | jlp_work | ahh |
| 23:28.19 | jlp_work | if you know the file, you should be able to just look at the straight g++ -E output, search for the offending file, and backtrack up |
| 23:31.17 | levi | Ahh, the evils of C. |
| 23:31.38 | elg | well this is more than just the evils of C |
| 23:31.50 | elg | this is the evils of funny macro hacks because of windows |
| 23:32.07 | elg | the problem is in windows you need some crazy APIENTRY thing all over the place in GL code |
| 23:32.16 | elg | and in linux/osx you don't need it |
| 23:32.34 | elg | but you do need APIENTRY defined (to nothing) or else it of course interprets the symbol directly |
| 23:32.49 | elg | but just -DAPIENTRY doesn't work, because some offending file is #undef'ing it |
| 23:32.52 | elg | grumble |
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