| 00:00.10 | mheath | Infact, any fraction is really just a complex fraction, unless its base is one |
| 00:00.24 | mheath | Assuming your not bound to the whole-unit view that we are |
| 00:00.35 | mheath | 2/7 is just 1/3.5 |
| 00:00.54 | mheath | And 1/3.5 is not confusing or hard to work with assuming 3.5 corresponds to something real-world. |
| 00:13.41 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@216.31.27.110) |
| 00:35.08 | mheath | yah, my little objnet simple client is coming along really well. This thing is turning out cool :) |
| 00:41.35 | elg | but the egyptians gad no concept of 2/8 |
| 00:42.03 | mheath | they have concept of simple quantities, right? |
| 00:42.10 | mheath | They can count |
| 00:42.33 | mheath | <count> one giant block of granite...hahaha.....two giant blocks of granite....hahaha |
| 00:42.58 | mheath | If they can count, they can conceive of "two 1/8th fractions" |
| 00:44.15 | elg | all i know is what this book says |
| 00:44.17 | elg | "For some reason this was the |
| 00:44.17 | elg | only way the Egyptians knew of handling fractions; the one ex- |
| 00:44.17 | elg | ception was 2/3, which was regarded as a fraction in its own |
| 00:44.17 | elg | right. A great amount of effort and ingenuity was spent in de- |
| 00:44.17 | elg | composing a fraction into a sum of unit fractions. For example, |
| 00:44.18 | elg | the result of dividing 6 by 10 is given as 1/2 |
| 00:44.20 | elg | 1/10, and that of |
| 00:44.22 | elg | 7 by 10 as 2/3 |
| 00:44.24 | elg | + 1/30." |
| 00:45.24 | mheath | See? |
| 00:45.30 | mheath | That says basicaly exactly what I said |
| 00:45.30 | elg | see what? |
| 00:45.43 | elg | you said they would say 6/10 is 1/10 6 simes |
| 00:45.47 | elg | s/simes/times/ |
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| 00:46.21 | mheath | I was assuming, based on what you said, that they were even more simple than they apparently are. They see 6/10th as 1/2+1/10. |
| 00:46.51 | mheath | Mathematical understading can't be 'translated' |
| 00:47.00 | mheath | it will interpret as different things than it might have been |
| 00:47.07 | elg | you're making no sense |
| 00:47.35 | mheath | meh. |
| 00:48.41 | elg | perhaps they might have written 6/10 as 1/10 1/10 1/10 1/10 1/10 1/10, before simplification, that's not the same thing as saying they have a concept of 6/10 |
| 00:49.47 | mheath | elg: I think conceptual understanding is lost in the translation of hiroglyphs. |
| 00:50.08 | mheath | One could argue, for example, from the Romans righting of 4 as "IV" that the romans had no concept of 4 |
| 00:50.22 | mheath | That they just had a concept of 1, and 5, and mathematical relationships of the two |
| 00:50.34 | mheath | *writing |
| 00:52.31 | elg | what about the gradeschool student who hasn't had fractions yet, but understands "one and a half" pieces of pizza? |
| 00:52.46 | elg | does he grasp the concept of 13/6? |
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| 00:57.40 | elg | incidentally, they wrote them as a number with an oval above it |
| 00:57.54 | elg | so there was nowhere to put the numerator, really, it was just implied |
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| 01:54.22 | bertbob | romans didn't use the "modern" subtractive form of roman numberals...to them four was IIII |
| 01:55.39 | bertbob | and IV was just as correctly six as VI |
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| 03:18.45 | fozzmoo | bertbob: So, when in Rome, behave as the Romans SHOULD have acted. :) |
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| 03:41.03 | *** join/#utah fozzmoo (n=fozz@166-70-238-250.ip.xmission.com) |
| 03:53.29 | klys | proactive moron bot |
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| 04:13.22 | Lone_Wanderer | What kind of a file starts with the line %!PS-Adobe-3.0 ? |
| 04:14.12 | klys | .ps |
| 04:16.12 | Lone_Wanderer | thanks |
| 04:33.27 | *** part/#utah fozzmoo (n=fozz@166-70-238-250.ip.xmission.com) |
| 04:36.42 | Supaplex | man file. ;) |
| 04:40.49 | mheath | :find-handler ftp |
| 04:40.54 | mheath | oops, pasted that into the wrong program :P |
| 04:44.57 | mheath | I love ObjNet. Starting ot turn into something really cool :) |
| 04:45.29 | Supaplex | instead of playing wow, you fortify objects and war with each others code? |
| 04:46.48 | mheath | Supaplex: No, ObjNet is an abreviation for a project I've been slowly hacking on for a while. Short for "Object Oriented Distributed Networking Framework" :) |
| 04:47.18 | Supaplex | I'll try not to swallow that in one bite. |
| 04:47.38 | Supaplex | lest I choke/gag, etc. =D |
| 04:47.56 | mheath | Supaplex: to give you a little demo with a really, really simple example client I wrote for my equally simple client: |
| 04:48.46 | mheath | (forgive the muliline spam) |
| 04:48.47 | mheath | :trace-link com.fake-domain.ftp com.fake-domain.ftp is linked to com.fake-isp.slc.customer1.host1.ftp |
| 04:48.50 | mheath | :describe com.fake-isp.slc.customer1.host1.ftp |
| 04:48.52 | mheath | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:48.52 | mheath | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:48.52 | mheath | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:48.53 | mheath | :connect com.fake-domain.ftp |
| 04:48.55 | mheath | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:48.57 | mheath | :find-handler ftp |
| 04:49.00 | mheath | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:49.12 | mheath | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:49.32 | Supaplex | humph... how are the protocol handlers delegated? |
| 04:49.53 | Supaplex | will it just trust any abtrary one $evil-one conjures up? |
| 04:50.28 | mheath | Supaplex: Nah, you set a tree (or trees, or multi-tree reference) to search |
| 04:51.22 | mheath | My thing is just set to search the tree com.fake-domain.http.object.handlers |
| 04:51.54 | mheath | (com.fake-domain points to com.fake-isp.slc.customer1.host1 which is currently set to resolve to the localhost tree) |
| 04:53.05 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@216.31.27.110) |
| 04:53.48 | mheath | Supaplex: Basically, ObjNet is a worldwide tree of objects.... |
| 04:54.01 | mheath | That supports things like linking, and specifying handlers for subobjects. |
| 04:57.10 | mheath | Its insanely flexible and allows you to do a lot of cool stuff you wouldn't even think of :) |
| 04:58.09 | mheath | Networks: |
| 04:58.42 | mheath | com.some-site links to remove.gatewayhost1.route-to.com.some-site |
| 04:59.06 | mheath | s/remove/remote/g |
| 04:59.29 | mheath | remote.gatewayhost1 provided by 'remote-route' :) |
| 04:59.59 | mheath | remote.gatewayhost1's meta info: ip: x.x.x.x.x, authentication: blah, etc. |
| 05:00.00 | mheath | :) |
| 05:00.04 | Supaplex | has potential. |
| 05:00.12 | Supaplex | so far I like the idea |
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| 06:29.45 | *** join/#utah nick125_lappy (n=nick@unaffiliated/nick125) |
| 07:43.28 | nick125_lappy | Haha, my friend just called me, he tried to activate his modem with comcast, and it turns out the installer gave him a modem that was still assigned to someone else. |
| 08:20.13 | *** join/#utah ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) |
| 08:20.13 | *** topic/#utah is The channel for OT discussion in Utah | http://plug.org/irc | Utah Open Source Conference - September 6-8, 2007 | Plug BBQ pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/fozzmoo/PLUGBBQ6162007 | It's official, Tene's becoming a Guru. All your #utah are belong to us. |
| 08:20.13 | *** mode/#utah [+o ibot] by ChanServ |
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| 12:56.51 | ^Migs^ | hahaha: http://www.reuters.com/article/oddlyEnoughNews/idUSN2025954320070620 |
| 12:57.00 | ^Migs^ | ATLANTA (Reuters) - Two U.S. car thieves failed to make their getaway in a car they had just stolen because they couldn't figure out how to use its manual transmission, a witness said on Wednesday. |
| 12:57.04 | ^Migs^ | "The kid was just sitting in the car trying to start it but he had no idea what to do. He looked dumbfounded. The only thing he had going was the radio," said Williamson who witnessed the scene |
| 13:05.40 | nick125_lappy | hahahaha |
| 13:06.20 | ^Migs^ | http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/southflorida/sfl-flasands0621nbjun21,0,771832.story?coll=sfla-news-sfla |
| 13:06.21 | brac | [AMA to vote on "internet/video-game addiction" as medical condition: South Florida Sun-Sentinel] |
| 13:14.23 | Sargun | hey |
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| 13:33.37 | goozbach | clunky! |
| 13:33.43 | goozbach | ChunkY! |
| 13:33.47 | goozbach | banana |
| 13:33.52 | goozbach | pineapple! |
| 13:34.47 | vontrapp | squirts! |
| 13:40.35 | ^Migs^ | http://www.woot.com |
| 13:54.21 | harleypig | http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e40_1181940619 |
| 13:54.22 | brac | [LiveLeak.com - Amazing new footage of the Loch Ness monster shows up today] |
| 14:00.33 | nick125_lappy | Anyone here have any ideas on how old those RCA cable modems are? |
| 14:00.53 | nick125_lappy | I know they are least 4-6 years old, but, I'm not certain. |
| 14:01.48 | nick125_lappy | My friend had comcast installed at his house yesterday and they gave him a RCA modem. |
| 14:01.59 | nick125_lappy | (Then he wonders why I hate comcast) |
| 14:03.54 | nick125_lappy | (It's the big giant modem with the turquoise-colored "power" button on the front of the modem) |
| 14:15.05 | *** join/#utah Sargun (n=Sargun@atarack/staff/sargun) |
| 14:15.15 | Sargun | Yay, I hacked the wi-fi! |
| 14:15.22 | Sargun | I got a reliable connection via sateliite |
| 14:16.34 | *** join/#utah Sargun (n=Sargun@atarack/staff/sargun) |
| 14:18.40 | Sargun | ok |
| 14:18.43 | Sargun | I spoke too soon. |
| 14:18.44 | Sargun | but |
| 14:18.47 | Sargun | Still.... |
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| 14:34.33 | ^Migs^ | http://www.thehorrordome.com/HDSHOPPINGPROPS/SpillYourGutsLARGE.htm |
| 14:34.34 | brac | [TheHorrorDome.com, Horror Illusions] |
| 14:34.35 | ^Migs^ | this is a COOL site |
| 14:40.45 | ^Migs^ | I want this! http://www.thehorrordome.com/HDSHOPPINGPROPS/MajorHeadwoundLARGE.htm |
| 14:40.50 | brac | [HorrorDomeShoppingANIMATRONICS] |
| 14:44.55 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@216.31.27.110) |
| 14:49.42 | goozbach | watch out for the droppings! |
| 14:58.35 | ^Migs^ | that guy in my church who was diagnosed with brain cancer, whose wife was pregnant with their first kid and induced the baby so he could spend some time with it before he died, just died |
| 14:58.49 | *** join/#utah neybar (n=jalance@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 15:05.55 | levi | That's sad. |
| 15:06.25 | levi | My sister-in-law is actually having success with her chemo treatment, which was a big surprise to the doctors. |
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| 15:10.01 | ^Migs^ | oh that's great |
| 15:10.16 | ^Migs^ | it's so sad when kids have to grow up without a parent |
| 15:10.33 | ^Migs^ | I can't even imagine how difficult it is for her. I think she's younger than I am. |
| 15:10.38 | ^Migs^ | *for his wife, I mean |
| 15:11.05 | levi | Her chances of surviving through their whole childhood are probably still pretty slim, but some chance is better than none. |
| 15:11.07 | herlo | you guys gotta look at it the other way. This is how he lives forever... |
| 15:11.26 | herlo | by his progeny |
| 15:11.49 | ^Migs^ | I guess |
| 15:12.25 | levi | Looking at it that way doesn't really change the fact that he's dead. |
| 15:12.28 | herlo | That's how I look at it now that I have a 7yo son who can carry on my genes (albeit a bit scary in the genes department)... |
| 15:12.44 | ^Migs^ | I don't see how one "lives forever" by spawning offspring |
| 15:12.47 | herlo | levi: true, but death is just a passageway, not the end, of our journey |
| 15:12.59 | ^Migs^ | if you believe in that, at least |
| 15:13.02 | ^Migs^ | which, thankfully, I do |
| 15:13.20 | levi | herlo: Fine for him, but still very sad for his family, who is stuck without him for a long time. |
| 15:13.22 | ^Migs^ | it sucks when kids die before their parents |
| 15:13.34 | herlo | ^Migs^: huh? |
| 15:13.34 | ^Migs^ | no parent should have to be alive during their own childrens' deaths |
| 15:13.46 | ^Migs^ | I'm just thinking out loud |
| 15:13.53 | herlo | ^Migs^: oh, okay |
| 15:13.53 | ^Migs^ | because this guy's parents are still alive |
| 15:14.13 | ^Migs^ | I'm not even technically thinking "out loud." I'm thinking privately and then those thoughts are transferring to the keyboard |
| 15:14.38 | herlo | levi: but rather than dwell on the sadness, live still continues to move forward and thus, the child is from the father, and so happiness should abound... |
| 15:14.55 | ^Migs^ | this kid will never know her father |
| 15:15.07 | ^Migs^ | that just makes me more depressed than anything |
| 15:15.20 | herlo | ^Migs^: sure he will, just not in the next 60-80 years... |
| 15:15.31 | ^Migs^ | what about "heretofore?" I like that word. |
| 15:15.40 | levi | Well, I'm certainly not going to dwell on it, but it remains a sad story to me. |
| 15:15.51 | ^Migs^ | my aunt died when she was only 19 |
| 15:15.55 | herlo | plus, he'll be able to procreate and continue the living forever theme that we all strive heretofore! |
| 15:16.05 | levi | I think trying to cast a father's untimely death to cancer as a happy story is a bit disingenuous. |
| 15:16.10 | ^Migs^ | and her parents had to live another 40-50 years before they could see her again |
| 15:16.20 | ^Migs^ | yeah, I'm with levi |
| 15:16.23 | levi | (I like the word 'disingenuous') |
| 15:16.26 | ^Migs^ | I appreciate what you're trying to do |
| 15:16.29 | herlo | levi: I think its not. I wasn't suggesting there shouldn't be sadness, just that its not the end... |
| 15:16.29 | ^Migs^ | yeah, that's a cool word |
| 15:16.44 | ^Migs^ | I appreciate what you're trying to do, but let people be miserable for awhile |
| 15:17.10 | ^Migs^ | gosh, Im' |
| 15:17.14 | ^Migs^ | I'm so glad I'm not an atheist |
| 15:17.15 | herlo | I heretofore claim that everyone not be disingenuous to thy neighbor or thee wife, thus some wickedness shall occur |
| 15:17.23 | herlo | :) |
| 15:17.24 | ^Migs^ | and thus it is. Amen. |
| 15:17.34 | ^Migs^ | ^^^ my favorite phrase. |
| 15:17.46 | levi | So say we all. |
| 15:18.05 | herlo | levi: so say we all! |
| 15:18.06 | ^Migs^ | oh yeah, I have work to do |
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| 16:16.57 | elg | -chat |
| 16:17.00 | brac | this has to be rolling a file /dev/dspW but no spin |
| 16:17.28 | redbeard2 | i need a plugin for firefox that automatically adds "-ebay " to my search box whenever i hit froogle.com |
| 16:18.26 | nick125_lappy | redbeard2: Are you talking about the search bar? |
| 16:18.35 | redbeard2 | nick125_lappy: yup |
| 16:18.36 | nick125_lappy | Or when you normally go to the site and search that way? |
| 16:18.45 | redbeard2 | oh.sorry, yeah |
| 16:18.55 | redbeard2 | when i normally go to the site itself |
| 16:18.57 | nick125_lappy | redbeard2: Well, you could modify the search bar script if you are using the ff search bar for it |
| 16:19.34 | redbeard2 | not using the ff search bar... but i could. is there already a froogle add-on for it? |
| 16:19.35 | nick125_lappy | Not sure about that, you might be able to clunge a greasemonkey script for it (I think there would be a way to do it in greasemonkey) |
| 16:19.39 | nick125_lappy | Let me check. |
| 16:20.04 | nick125_lappy | I'd assume there is. If not, it wouldn't be too hard to make one. |
| 16:20.19 | *** join/#utah tiwula (n=lane@195.sub-166-161-154.myvzw.com) |
| 16:20.26 | nick125_lappy | http://mycroft.mozdev.org/download.html?name=froogle&sherlock=yes&opensearch=yes&submitform=Search |
| 16:20.27 | brac | [Mycroft Project: Sherlock & OpenSearch Search Engine Plugins] |
| 16:23.50 | redbeard2 | nick125_lappy: you rock |
| 16:24.20 | nick125_lappy | You should be able to edit that plugin to append -ebay to your requests. |
| 16:24.32 | herlo | nick125_lappy: that's awesome, the url you just gave has my nick in it... |
| 16:24.47 | herlo | =froogle&s*herlo*ck=y |
| 16:24.54 | herlo | :) |
| 16:24.56 | nick125_lappy | haha |
| 16:25.10 | herlo | so irssi notified me that I had a message |
| 16:25.17 | herlo | thougth that was nice of it... |
| 16:25.26 | nick125_lappy | It doesn't do that for me :/ |
| 16:25.42 | nick125_lappy | Unless it's at the front of a line |
| 16:26.33 | herlo | nick125_lappy: I think its a regex tool I load automatically that will notify me anytime anyone says my name anywhere |
| 16:26.41 | nick125_lappy | herlo: Ah. |
| 16:26.46 | herlo | exactly |
| 16:27.13 | nick125_lappy | redbeard2: Also, there's this tool called OpenSearchFox that will do it for you. |
| 16:28.07 | nick125_lappy | It doesn't seem to give you a way to modify the search URL though..hmm |
| 16:28.44 | nick125_lappy | Ah, but, it does save it to a XML file, so, it shouldn't be too hard to edit that. |
| 16:29.31 | nick125_lappy | Here's the XML file, I don't know how you would add it though. |
| 16:29.50 | nick125_lappy | http://rafb.net/p/QIU7YC43.html |
| 16:37.05 | nick125_lappy | redbeard2: I put it up on mycroft so it'll be easier to install |
| 16:37.09 | nick125_lappy | http://mycroft.mozdev.org/developer/devlist.html?email=nick@nick125.com |
| 16:37.10 | brac | [Mycroft Project: Sherlock & OpenSearch Search Engine Plugins] |
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| 16:56.22 | elg | have you ever pondered how browser bookmarks are ironically so unlike real bookmarks? let's say you're reading an online book or howto or something. you'd want a bookmark to temporarily hold your place until you come back. when you've read some more, your bookmark is in the new location |
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| 16:57.17 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 16:57.19 | elg | but the browser way is you hot-glue your bookmark in place, and next time you hot-glue another bookmark in... in the end you have a book full of bookmarks, or else you had to go through the trouble of detaching the hot-glued bookmarks as you went along |
| 16:57.51 | elg | and when you're done with the book, and return it to the library, you still have these bookmarks hanging around your house, haunting you until you explicitly destroy them |
| 16:58.03 | levi | And if you leave bookmarks long enough, the stuff they were marking just disappears. |
| 16:58.11 | elg | exactly |
| 16:58.35 | levi | Or gets replaced by some sort of ad page. |
| 16:59.28 | elg | or a "please update your bookmarks page" |
| 17:00.29 | elg | no doubt the concept that we call browser bookmarks is useful, but I think a true analogy to bookmarks is in order as well, and the name is unfortunate |
| 17:00.41 | levi | I rarely bookmark things anymore. I either download stuff I really want to have as a reference later, or I tell myself I'm not really ever going to go back and forget about it. |
| 17:00.56 | elg | or just google it again : |
| 17:01.00 | levi | Yeah. |
| 17:01.07 | elg | yeah, all I bookmark these days are things I go back to |
| 17:01.18 | levi | Mostly, though, I really don't go back. |
| 17:01.24 | elg | and usually those are the sort of thing I want real bookmarks for, so I bookmark the toc and just remember where I am |
| 17:01.30 | nick125_lappy | What if you lose your book? |
| 17:01.47 | nick125_lappy | Wait. That made no sense now that I think about it. |
| 17:01.48 | levi | Browser session saving thingies are kind of like real bookmarks. |
| 17:02.01 | elg | yeah, but then you have to keep all those things open |
| 17:02.02 | nick125_lappy | I only use bookmarks for really really cool stuff. |
| 17:02.06 | elg | not tidy-freak-friendly |
| 17:02.22 | nick125_lappy | Anyone here play with Zoom modems? |
| 17:02.23 | elg | basically, I only use bookmarks that deserve to be on the toolbar |
| 17:02.52 | levi | Well, I'm not really a tidy-freak. My only problem with a bunch of things being open is the gigantic cache usage that ends up happening. |
| 17:03.01 | findlay | firefox remembers that for me |
| 17:03.02 | ^Migs^ | how do you convince your friend's anti-gaming wife to let him play video games? |
| 17:03.10 | levi | nick125_lappy: I think my old 2400 baud modem was Zoom branded. |
| 17:03.20 | levi | ^Migs^: You don't. |
| 17:03.27 | nick125_lappy | levi: I'm talking about their ADSL modems. |
| 17:03.40 | levi | ^Migs^: Or, maybe sucker her into playing a Wii. |
| 17:03.49 | ^Migs^ | oo |
| 17:03.51 | ^Migs^ | okay |
| 17:03.57 | ^Migs^ | baby steps. She won't let him get a Wii at this point. |
| 17:04.07 | nick125_lappy | I telnet'ed into the modem, and enabled verbose, so, and I got this error: |
| 17:04.08 | nick125_lappy | WARNING : ATM VC Congested : Interface - aal5-0, Port Id=7, Vpi=0, Vci=32 |
| 17:04.18 | elg | ^Migs^: does she not have something she likes to do that he doesn't? |
| 17:04.24 | ^Migs^ | I dunno |
| 17:04.26 | ^Migs^ | I'll ask |
| 17:04.28 | elg | does she have to enjoy everything he does? |
| 17:04.38 | elg | or is this more of a videogames are evil stance? |
| 17:05.07 | levi | ^Migs^: Well, it would have to be someone else's Wii. She's not going to okay something like that without trying it first. |
| 17:05.14 | nick125_lappy | Hmm. This is interesting. Since I got that error, I'm only getting 80K/s down. |
| 17:05.20 | ^Migs^ | video games are evil, because her brothers became "addicted" to some games, therefore it's obvious anyone who plays video games will become addicted and neglect their family, run up the credit card bills, steal cars, deal crack, etc. |
| 17:05.40 | elg | have him start dealing crack now |
| 17:05.43 | elg | so it won't be a threat |
| 17:05.46 | ^Migs^ | yeah |
| 17:05.56 | ^Migs^ | plus playing video games will seem less severe |
| 17:05.59 | elg | i'm no help, because I find most video games terribly dull |
| 17:06.04 | ^Migs^ | I don't |
| 17:06.09 | ^Migs^ | but I get bored of them after awhile |
| 17:06.18 | ^Migs^ | nor do I play them all that often |
| 17:06.27 | herlo | elg: as far as bookmarks go with the sessionsaver. I just always kill firefox rather than close it. This keeps my sessions in the state they were in the last time I ran it... |
| 17:06.31 | ^Migs^ | which is why I think the so-called "video game addiction" is a load of carp |
| 17:06.32 | ^Migs^ | *crap |
| 17:06.42 | levi | I play them occasionally; usually a lot for the first few days after I get them, and then almost never again. |
| 17:06.49 | ^Migs^ | people who do that simply lack (a) discipline, and (b) a sense of priorities |
| 17:06.58 | elg | i do enjoy playing them sometimes, but i'm so terribly bad at them I get frustrated and go on to something more fulfilling |
| 17:07.10 | elg | and then don't think to play video games for another few months |
| 17:07.18 | levi | Yeah, people who get addicted to videogames would otherwise be watching TV or some other worthless thing. |
| 17:07.53 | ^Migs^ | yeah no kidding |
| 17:07.56 | Jayce^ | elg, but then sit you in front of flight gear... |
| 17:08.00 | ^Migs^ | TV is WORSE |
| 17:08.04 | rsimpkins | You are saying addicted like - a fan - or addicted like - crack? |
| 17:08.06 | ^Migs^ | you just totally zone out in front of TV |
| 17:08.07 | elg | i'm not so sure though, I think it is a real threat for some people |
| 17:08.12 | ^Migs^ | at least in a video game you're exercising your brain cells |
| 17:08.23 | ^Migs^ | addicted like crack |
| 17:08.25 | elg | anything that you get good at and feel successful when doing it gives you some feel good hormones |
| 17:08.31 | Jayce^ | we had our neighbors over and let them try the wii, the wife commented about it being the first video game she liked.. |
| 17:08.34 | elg | so if you're great at killing bowser |
| 17:08.49 | rsimpkins | I've only known one person in my entire life with a computer related addiction. |
| 17:08.56 | ^Migs^ | http://blog.wired.com/games/2007/06/doctor_urges_am.html |
| 17:09.13 | rsimpkins | He ended up bankrupt and divorced due to his inability to control his Internet addition. |
| 17:09.14 | ^Migs^ | I think that's bull |
| 17:09.26 | ^Migs^ | there's no chemical or otherwise physiological dependency involved in video games |
| 17:09.28 | elg | Jayce^: i suppose some might consider flightgear a video game :) it's much different from, say, super mario bros though. it involves thought, real-world physics, etc. |
| 17:09.39 | ^Migs^ | it's lack of discipline, and an improper sense of priorities |
| 17:09.45 | elg | "gamers" get so bored with flight simulators within a few seconds. it's hilarious to watch |
| 17:09.47 | rsimpkins | ^Migs^: It's an emotional dependance. I've seen it. |
| 17:09.50 | Jayce^ | elg, still a video game imho.. just a different type |
| 17:09.51 | ^Migs^ | haha |
| 17:09.53 | ^Migs^ | I love flight simulators |
| 17:09.59 | levi | ^Migs^: There are two distinct types of addiction. Chemical addiction is just one of them. |
| 17:10.00 | rsimpkins | ^Migs^: And it's messed up. |
| 17:10.06 | elg | because they're so gung-ho about it at first. they think "wow, that looks cool! I'm going to love that" |
| 17:10.26 | nick125_lappy | I seem to only be able to get off the ground, then, I nose dive it right after :/ |
| 17:10.43 | elg | then, "what, where's the missiles? where's the other planes? how do I do loops and rolls?" |
| 17:10.50 | nick125_lappy | LOL |
| 17:10.53 | elg | "why am I crashing? why does my plane pull to the left? |
| 17:11.01 | ^Migs^ | hahaha |
| 17:11.04 | elg | dude this sucks" |
| 17:11.10 | goozbach | elg: my plane doesn't pull to the left... |
| 17:11.18 | ^Migs^ | yeah, what's wrong with your plane? |
| 17:11.21 | goozbach | must be that I fly a twin-engine |
| 17:11.25 | ^Migs^ | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:11.26 | elg | most planes do at low-speed high-power situations because of helical propwash |
| 17:11.30 | elg | need right rudder to compensate |
| 17:11.34 | ^Migs^ | oh cool |
| 17:11.50 | levi | Like torque-steer on a front-wheel-drive car, eh? |
| 17:12.00 | elg | at cruise speeds the designers have compensated with the shape of the wings |
| 17:12.14 | goozbach | levi: not entirely unlike torque-steer |
| 17:12.31 | elg | goozbach: precisely. I love that phrase :) |
| 17:13.22 | goozbach | it's been probally 6 years since I've last flown |
| 17:13.54 | elg | i got to go up on fathers day with a friend |
| 17:14.02 | findlay | herlo: isn't that ironic? :) |
| 17:14.07 | elg | lots of fun |
| 17:15.22 | findlay | herlo: and why, if firefox can save its state, can it not allow gnome to ask it to save its state? |
| 17:17.50 | rsimpkins | I liked MSFSX, but I need to get a new MONSTER system to run it and make it look pretty. |
| 17:18.18 | rsimpkins | My ATI XT850 PE is already out of date. |
| 17:18.41 | elg | haven't seen msfs since ... windows 95 days |
| 17:18.52 | rsimpkins | The new one is VERY good. |
| 17:19.04 | rsimpkins | If you are a pilot, you will appreciate the added visual clues. |
| 17:19.25 | rsimpkins | Flaring actually looks like real flaring now, rather than driving a car down a road. |
| 17:19.58 | elg | someday I'll have to watch a demo |
| 17:21.44 | rsimpkins | I still want to whip my head around, and peak over the window. |
| 17:21.56 | rsimpkins | I guess I'll never get that in a consumer grade sim though. |
| 17:22.27 | elg | you could do it in flightgear now, if you had VR equipment |
| 17:22.53 | findlay | or lots of screens |
| 17:23.16 | rsimpkins | findlay: I think it would take a whole sphere of screens. :) |
| 17:23.31 | findlay | now you're talking AF-grade sims :) |
| 17:24.06 | rsimpkins | My cousin worked on low-cost sims for the AF. Three monitors and a real F-16 Cockpit. |
| 17:24.15 | elg | and I mean, you can move the position of your head in flightgear as well as changing the direction of view |
| 17:24.26 | rsimpkins | They had some early prototype VR stuff too, but this was years ago. |
| 17:24.44 | *** join/#utah phinux (n=jamie@151.155.188.155) |
| 17:24.47 | *** join/#utah redbeard2 (n=Administ@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com) |
| 17:24.49 | elg | 3 monitors would probably be cheaper, methinks, and almost as good |
| 17:25.09 | elg | you can run flightgear that way, btw, if you have 3 monitors and the video card power |
| 17:25.17 | elg | and cpu power |
| 17:25.35 | rsimpkins | It's the cockpit sim software that was really important. External visual clues are less important when you are killing someone from a mile away. |
| 17:25.42 | elg | :) |
| 17:29.03 | elg | i'd probably spend that couple thousand on an ultralight instead though |
| 17:29.13 | elg | simulators are just stopgap |
| 17:31.55 | levi | I had a coworker for a while who flew gliders all the time. |
| 17:32.04 | rsimpkins | elg: A couple thousand? I think a good ultralight will run you about $15k. |
| 17:32.09 | rsimpkins | Or more. |
| 17:32.30 | rsimpkins | If you want true three axis control. |
| 17:32.30 | levi | elg does everything cheaper! ;) |
| 17:32.31 | elg | there are some you can build for $3k-$4k |
| 17:32.39 | elg | three-axi |
| 17:32.42 | elg | s |
| 17:32.53 | elg | not fast, not fancy |
| 17:32.59 | rsimpkins | If you want a rudder, elevator, and ailerons. |
| 17:32.59 | elg | but it'll get you in the air |
| 17:33.01 | findlay | you might even get 4-axis control! |
| 17:33.07 | rsimpkins | Rather than a powered parachute. |
| 17:33.07 | elg | check check check |
| 17:33.18 | elg | taildragger |
| 17:34.25 | rsimpkins | elg: Who makes such a thing? |
| 17:34.47 | rsimpkins | And I'm guessing that price doesn't include an engine. |
| 17:35.16 | elg | well you have to "make" it |
| 17:35.17 | goozbach | I want six-axis control |
| 17:35.33 | findlay | yeah |
| 17:35.37 | rsimpkins | elg: That's how almost all ultralights are. |
| 17:35.38 | elg | here's one, and I've seen others: http://affordaplane.com/ |
| 17:35.41 | brac | [Affordaplane Ultralight, Affordaplane Plans, ultralight plans, a-plane, affordaplane] |
| 17:35.57 | goozbach | but alas, $600 is too much without the new metal gear solid to play through |
| 17:36.45 | levi | elg: Just make sure you keep all those bolts tight. :) |
| 17:36.57 | elg | ya :) |
| 17:37.20 | findlay | torque wrenches are fun |
| 17:37.39 | levi | Or loc-tite. |
| 17:37.48 | findlay | that reminds me, levi, I did eventually get my head gaskets changed :) |
| 17:38.20 | findlay | it was kind of fun. Would have been more fun if it wasn't so stressful |
| 17:39.05 | goozbach | only fits pilots up to 6' 3"? |
| 17:39.08 | goozbach | well that's out |
| 17:39.28 | elg | i'm sure you could make some arrangement for an inch or two |
| 17:39.39 | elg | use a thinner seat or something |
| 17:40.03 | elg | and is your torso long or short? my dad hits his head on car ceilings much more than I do, but we're the same height |
| 17:40.25 | goozbach | I have a fairly long torso |
| 17:40.36 | goozbach | and I'm almost 6'6" |
| 17:41.17 | elg | i didn't know you were so tall |
| 17:41.23 | goozbach | and if I wear my flight goggles on the top of my head to be all stylish, I for sure wouldn't fit |
| 17:41.35 | goozbach | maybe I'll just get me a Cessna |
| 17:41.45 | elg | the price of a small house |
| 17:41.49 | ^Migs^ | goozsquatch |
| 17:41.50 | elg | or expensive sports car |
| 17:41.55 | elg | :) |
| 17:42.13 | elg | part-ownership can be like a second car though |
| 17:42.36 | elg | not like an '89 festiva you know, but |
| 17:42.58 | goozbach | part-ownership could be fun |
| 17:43.13 | findlay | I want to get a vintage Mustang |
| 17:43.24 | findlay | that would be fun |
| 17:43.29 | levi | elg: As long as the other guy doesn't crash it. ;) |
| 17:43.41 | rsimpkins | elg: This is an interesting list: http://www.ultralightnews.ca/kitplanebuilder/kitplane-buildingtimes.htm |
| 17:43.45 | brac | [Kitplane building times, manufacturers published kit plane building times, how long it takes to build a kit plane.] |
| 17:43.45 | elg | ya, that's the thing with part-ownership. could be cool or could be a nightmare |
| 17:45.56 | elg | if only you didn't have to buildthem |
| 17:46.24 | goozbach | xhttp://caravan.cessna.com/other.chtml |
| 17:46.25 | brac | [Cessna Caravan. Sure Thing] |
| 17:46.35 | goozbach | get part ownership of one of those. |
| 17:46.51 | elg | xhttp huh? |
| 17:46.57 | rsimpkins | Caravands are nice if you get them with a turboprop. |
| 17:47.03 | goozbach | http://caravan.cessna.com/other.chtml |
| 17:47.04 | brac | [Cessna Caravan. Sure Thing] |
| 17:47.23 | goozbach | brac understood it |
| 17:48.12 | elg | brac is da bomb |
| 17:48.37 | findlay | ~xhttp |
| 17:48.51 | findlay | ~dict xhttp |
| 17:48.58 | findlay | ~wiki xhttp |
| 17:49.10 | *** part/#utah phinux (n=jamie@151.155.188.155) |
| 17:58.27 | findlay | http://www.popecenter.org/clarion_call/article.html?id=1843 |
| 17:58.28 | brac | [The John William Pope Center for Higher Education Policy : Postmodern Physics] |
| 17:58.39 | findlay | jhttp://www.popecenter.org/clarion_call/article.html?id=1843 |
| 17:58.40 | brac | [The John William Pope Center for Higher Education Policy : Postmodern Physics] |
| 17:58.41 | *** join/#utah kreg (n=kreg@208.98.188.95) |
| 17:58.44 | findlay | heh |
| 18:06.35 | findlay | I'm going to change that |
| 18:07.16 | findlay | the same thing happened to mathematics, which is even more alarming |
| 18:09.46 | ^Migs^ | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1Uw2pCNMkk&mode=related&search= |
| 18:10.10 | *** join/#utah Lakshmi___ (n=chatzill@adsl-69-109-117-131.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 18:12.20 | levi | Probably stems from the same cause that makes CS students not want to take theory classes. |
| 18:12.41 | levi | Or to violently complain about having to learn Scheme, or whatever. |
| 18:13.08 | levi | "This stuff is TOO WEIRD! It's not like anything I'll ever use!" |
| 18:13.41 | findlay | haha |
| 18:13.57 | findlay | way to cut yourself off from great knowledge |
| 18:14.16 | levi | Who wants knowledge? Most university students just want a degree so they can get a decent job. |
| 18:15.24 | levi | But the standard model is pretty darn weird. |
| 18:15.35 | findlay | I do |
| 18:15.36 | levi | leptons, quarks, bosons... spin, flavor, etc. |
| 18:15.42 | findlay | I don't care about jobs or money |
| 18:15.56 | levi | findlay: You are unusual. |
| 18:15.57 | findlay | I don't think it's wierd |
| 18:17.32 | findlay | libertarian get freaked out by me, because I'm not monetized :) |
| 18:17.50 | levi | Libertarians are weird. |
| 18:18.01 | levi | Weird, too, I should say. |
| 18:18.20 | elg | findlaytarians too |
| 18:18.24 | findlay | assuming that the world can be fully monetized is a very limiting concept |
| 18:18.49 | elg | what does monetization have to do with libertarianism? |
| 18:18.56 | findlay | it's for the same reason that people can't understand free software |
| 18:19.11 | findlay | elg: what does it not? |
| 18:19.41 | elg | what do you have to do with lemurs? |
| 18:20.19 | findlay | nothing |
| 18:20.30 | *** join/#utah sjansen (n=sjansen@001-823-601.area1.spcsdns.net) |
| 18:20.37 | sjansen | pidgin-- |
| 18:20.40 | elg | what does sjansen have to do with anything? |
| 18:20.50 | sjansen | Nothing, nothing at all. |
| 18:20.57 | findlay | ~monetize sjansen |
| 18:21.01 | sjansen | These are the droids you're looking for. |
| 18:21.05 | sjansen | Move along. |
| 18:21.21 | redbeard2 | ~move sjansen |
| 18:21.22 | ibot | ACTION packs up everything for redbeard2 and drives it cross-country in a U-haul truck, and then unpacks it |
| 18:21.40 | redbeard2 | hmm. |
| 18:22.09 | elg | redbeard2: it's all about frame of reference, it seems |
| 18:22.25 | findlay | ~literal move |
| 18:22.26 | ibot | "move" is "<REPLY>why would I do that, I like it here!" |
| 18:22.36 | elg | ~literal move $1 |
| 18:22.37 | ibot | ACTION packs up everything for elg and drives it cross-country in a U-haul truck, and then unpacks it |
| 18:22.37 | findlay | ~literal move $nick |
| 18:22.38 | ibot | ACTION packs up everything for findlay and drives it cross-country in a U-haul truck, and then unpacks it |
| 18:23.12 | elg | ibot, no move $sjansen is <action> packs up $sjansen's stuff and drives it into the ocean. |
| 18:23.13 | ibot | okay, elg |
| 18:23.18 | elg | ~move redbeard2 |
| 18:23.18 | ibot | ACTION packs up redbeard2's stuff and drives it into the ocean. |
| 18:24.02 | sjansen | ~move mountains |
| 18:24.02 | ibot | ACTION packs up mountains's stuff and drives it into the ocean. |
| 18:24.02 | levi | I like to frame my reference with an ornate wood frame with dark stain. |
| 18:24.14 | findlay | levi: carved? |
| 18:24.32 | levi | If possible. |
| 18:26.16 | *** join/#utah nick125- (n=upirc@m100e36d0.tmodns.net) |
| 18:26.40 | *** join/#utah jsmith__ (n=jsmith@70.5.193.93) |
| 18:26.46 | nick125- | wow. this is weird. |
| 18:27.15 | nick125- | my friend just got back from comcast with a new modem, 86kbit down. |
| 18:27.28 | nick125- | while his upload is fine. |
| 18:27.38 | nick125- | same exact thing as with his dsl connection |
| 18:27.44 | elg | haha |
| 18:28.17 | nick125- | I'm sitting here dumbfounded |
| 18:28.27 | levi | The internet cabal is out to get him. |
| 18:28.28 | elg | probably not cable or dsl's fault |
| 18:28.36 | elg | unless it's a conspiracy |
| 18:28.47 | elg | what's common? |
| 18:28.58 | nick125- | elg: his laptop. |
| 18:29.13 | elg | no router? |
| 18:29.14 | elg | modem? |
| 18:29.22 | elg | not modem I guess |
| 18:29.23 | nick125- | I just realized that I never got the really horrible speeds on my laptop |
| 18:29.34 | nick125- | he's direct connect |
| 18:30.15 | nick125- | to the modem. |
| 18:30.44 | nick125- | I'm starting to feel really stupid. |
| 18:31.04 | goozbach | nick125-: it'll be ok. |
| 18:31.20 | goozbach | just keep doing what you're doing... and eventually you'll just go numb |
| 18:32.03 | elg | merry summer solstice everyone |
| 18:32.09 | nick125- | I noticed that sometimes when I downloaded on his line, it dropped to 90K/s, but, that happens on my line too, on occasion. |
| 18:32.41 | nick125- | brb. |
| 18:34.51 | ^Migs^ | NBC will pay Paris Hilton $1 million for her first interview after she gets out of jail, which is expected to be next Monday. The interview is expected to take place Tuesday. |
| 18:38.01 | *** join/#utah TimRiker (n=timr@216.49.181.128) |
| 18:38.01 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 18:39.05 | elg | -lart emcnabb |
| 18:43.04 | ^Migs^ | NBC will pay Paris Hilton $1 million for her first interview after she gets out of jail, which is expected to be next Monday. The interview is expected to take place Tuesday. |
| 18:43.09 | ^Migs^ | she goes to jail and makes $1 mil |
| 18:44.38 | mheath | yeah |
| 18:44.43 | mheath | Jail for celebrities is a joke |
| 18:44.52 | mheath | Because court systems and the entertainment industry bend to their wills |
| 18:45.56 | mheath | Hmm |
| 18:46.09 | mheath | Do you think $300 for that server advertised on SLLUG is a decent deal? |
| 18:46.24 | mheath | I'm considering getting it. Using it as the main testing server for ObjNet |
| 18:50.35 | levi | Just about anything could be used as a test server, probably, unless you want to do serious load tests. |
| 18:51.31 | levi | Well, unless you are doing things really inefficiently. My Drupal install (php+mysql) was dog slow on my pIII-450. |
| 18:52.06 | mheath | levi: thats just a really cool extra computer that will run Linux really, really well. |
| 18:52.24 | mheath | I only have one computer ATM that runs Linux; its my laptop |
| 18:52.27 | levi | That was ridiculous. I think most of the slowness was due to accumulated crap in the database, but still. |
| 18:53.03 | *** join/#utah tuxd00d (n=tuxinato@128.187.178.29) |
| 18:53.11 | mheath | And under _some_ situations, ObjNet server can be a bit taxing |
| 18:53.20 | *** join/#utah Lakshmi_ (n=chatzill@adsl-69-109-170-49.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 18:55.38 | levi | I only have two active computers now, my OS X laptop and my Windows PC that runs Linux in a vmware instance in the background. |
| 18:56.42 | sjansen | Running multiple computers is too much work. |
| 18:56.54 | levi | I've got another high-powered server that's a few years old, but I don't have anywhere to put it. |
| 18:56.58 | sjansen | If I'm going to do it, I'd better be payed. Otherwise, one machine's enough. |
| 18:57.36 | levi | I need to figure out how to get it to boot from the hard drive, too. It's currently set up with LinuxBIOS and etherboot. |
| 18:57.52 | mheath | sjansen: meh, I'm just tlaking about buying a really cheap computer for testing a really cool project :) |
| 18:59.05 | levi | It's not super fast anymore, but it's got dual-Xeons and at least 4G of RAM. |
| 18:59.23 | sjansen | LinuxBIOS? Fun! |
| 18:59.40 | mheath | Eh? |
| 19:00.47 | levi | The board itself was used to develop LinuxBIOS for this particular platform. |
| 19:00.55 | beandog | nice. |
| 19:00.57 | beandog | etherboot ftw |
| 19:01.51 | levi | All our cluster nodes used to use LinuxBIOS and etherboot. We still use etherboot, but although LinuxBIOS was great, it took a long time to get working for every new board. |
| 19:02.54 | levi | The kinds of manuals you have to read to work on LinuxBIOS are nightmarish. |
| 19:03.06 | levi | When you can even get them. |
| 19:03.42 | mheath | I |
| 19:03.45 | levi | And you have to work on advance versions of motherboards, which are often buggy and prone to change. |
| 19:03.54 | mheath | I'm thinking of writing some other language tools for ObjNet |
| 19:04.08 | levi | Do you have a web page describing ObjNet? |
| 19:04.19 | mheath | Current basic alpha implementation is a Java based server, and Java based really simple sample client |
| 19:04.28 | mheath | levi: Going to put one up soon |
| 19:04.41 | mheath | I can give you a quick little demo, kinda, if you don't mind me spamming a couple of lines |
| 19:04.53 | mheath | Unless you saw it last night, when I was talking to Supaplex about it |
| 19:05.03 | levi | Just /msg me, unless other people want to see. |
| 19:05.09 | levi | I was playing WoW last night. :) |
| 19:05.22 | levi | And then it crashed and locked up the GUI in Windows, so I had to reboot. |
| 19:05.30 | mheath | yeah =\ |
| 19:06.10 | ^Migs^ | http://www.theonion.com/content/news/pac_man_jones_i_will_be_nowhere?utm_source=onion_rss_daily |
| 19:06.49 | mheath | ~welcome Levi to WoW |
| 19:06.50 | ibot | Howdy, Levi to WoW! |
| 19:09.12 | ^Migs^ | http://www.theonion.com/content/node/29057 |
| 19:09.22 | ^Migs^ | JERUSALEM—Overwhelmed by a constant deluge of prayers and appeals for salvation, Jesus Christ announced Monday the hiring of Tacoma, WA, customer-service supervisor Dean Smoler as Associate Christ. |
| 19:09.23 | ^Migs^ | LOL |
| 19:09.59 | ^Migs^ | Though some observers have questioned whether Smoler will be able to absolve Christians of earthly wrongdoings, having never died on the cross for humanity's sins, Christ dismisses such claims, saying that he has "complete faith in Dean." |
| 19:14.19 | mheath | oops, stupid mouse |
| 19:14.22 | mheath | how did I copy that? |
| 19:14.30 | mheath | copy random text from random pages I'm viewing |
| 19:14.35 | mheath | Didn't even notice until now I'd copied that |
| 19:17.20 | ^Migs^ | it's not real? |
| 19:17.33 | ^Migs^ | and I suppose Reuters Oddly Enough isn't real either |
| 19:18.07 | beandog | I rely on the daily comics for my new sources. |
| 19:18.09 | beandog | news |
| 19:22.10 | mheath | I think I lost levi. |
| 19:22.16 | mheath | He got disinterested in objnet :P |
| 19:22.20 | mheath | Or bored by my explanation |
| 19:22.36 | levi | No, I'm just waiting for you to finish typing stuff. |
| 19:23.33 | levi | I'm not terribly interested in it, for mostly the same reasons I wasn't interested before, but I was curious to see what you were currently thinking about it. |
| 19:24.22 | mheath | Well, what do YOU think of it? |
| 19:26.30 | *** join/#utah Lakshmi__ (n=chatzill@adsl-69-109-174-195.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 19:27.31 | levi | It sounds like it could be kind of cool if widely adopted, but doesn't seem to provide an overwhelming reason to do so. |
| 19:31.32 | levi | It seems to be essentially providing a new URI/URL scheme where the identifiers between the dots can have arbitrary semantic data assigned to them by distributed servers. That could be a good thing, but it's got the overwhelming momentum of the standard URL/URI schemes to overcome. |
| 19:35.52 | levi | Which is not intended to discourage you from working on it. |
| 19:36.33 | findlay | go work at an Internet2 university. That will get your ideas deployed |
| 19:38.31 | mheath | oh, wow |
| 19:38.37 | mheath | Just froze opneoffice.org |
| 19:38.59 | mheath | Apparently if you try to imbed a .wmv, it tries to interpret it as text. |
| 19:39.40 | findlay | you froze anentire website? |
| 19:45.15 | *** join/#utah Sargun (n=Sargun@atarack/staff/sargun) |
| 19:45.39 | mheath | Morning, Sargun |
| 19:45.53 | mheath | erm, afternoon |
| 19:45.57 | mheath | I forgot how late I spelt in today |
| 19:46.04 | findlay | ~morning |
| 19:46.05 | ibot | Good morning! |
| 19:46.13 | findlay | no, not that one |
| 19:46.18 | mheath | findlay: Your ideas are generally regarded as jokes, so don't worry :) |
| 19:46.38 | mheath | Anyone know any free Windows utils to convert WMV to...lets see......any other format? :P |
| 19:47.02 | findlay | mplayer |
| 19:47.16 | mheath | WMV seems to be pretty much the only format this thing doesn't work with :P |
| 19:48.12 | findlay | sox |
| 19:49.13 | nick125_lappy | I'm wondering if I should take my laptop in today to get it fixed or not. |
| 19:49.13 | beandog | windows util? |
| 19:49.14 | beandog | mplayer. |
| 19:49.19 | beandog | If you can find a recent binary build. |
| 19:50.23 | findlay | see, mheath, not all my ideas are jokes! |
| 19:51.01 | findlay | not even the one about the earth being knocked into an antiparallel universe back in 1985 |
| 19:51.45 | nick125_lappy | If I do take it in, I'll make a backup of everything and take it in with a wiped disk |
| 19:51.59 | nick125_lappy | Or maybe they'll replace it with a new unit, who knows. |
| 19:52.23 | nick125_lappy | (That's what they were talking about when I asked for a power supply because the stress boot is starting to break) |
| 19:52.32 | nick125_lappy | "Maybe they'll just replace it with a new unit" |
| 19:54.13 | Sargun | mheath, heh, hi, I'm at lunch |
| 19:54.16 | Sargun | Lakshmi, hey |
| 19:54.22 | Sargun | stupid disk |
| 19:54.26 | Sargun | so freaking slow |
| 19:54.43 | findlay | yay, lunch! |
| 19:55.00 | findlay | when do you get recess? |
| 19:55.30 | findlay | no recess I guess |
| 19:55.45 | Sargun | findlay, are you a guru? |
| 19:55.54 | findlay | Sargun: not yet ;-) |
| 19:56.27 | findlay | I'm the guru of meaningless factoids and unuseful knowledge |
| 19:56.32 | Sargun | lol |
| 19:56.44 | Sargun | everyone cool in #utah is a guru |
| 19:56.51 | Sargun | right goozbach? |
| 19:56.54 | beandog | ~beandog |
| 19:56.54 | ibot | from memory, beandog is the gentoo guru |
| 19:56.57 | beandog | woots |
| 19:56.59 | beandog | ~findlay |
| 19:57.00 | findlay | I guess I should be a guru so I can be cool |
| 19:57.07 | Sargun | findlay, I agree. |
| 19:57.10 | Sargun | ~sargun |
| 19:57.11 | ibot | you are, like, bored |
| 19:57.14 | Sargun | ~xbmodder |
| 19:57.15 | ibot | from memory, xbmodder is sargun |
| 19:57.20 | Sargun | ~god |
| 19:57.21 | ibot | i heard god is a llama, or real unless declared integer |
| 19:57.37 | findlay | ~demigod |
| 19:57.37 | ibot | well, demigod is n. A hacker with years of experience, a national reputation, and a major role in the development of at least one design, tool, or game used by or known to more than half of the hacker community. To qualify as a genuine demigod, the person must recognizably identify with the hacker community and have helped shape it. Major demigods include Ken ... |
| 19:57.48 | beandog | Ken? |
| 19:58.00 | findlay | Ken |
| 19:58.18 | mheath | ~praise Ken |
| 19:58.19 | ibot | All hail Ken! |
| 19:58.24 | beandog | hmm |
| 19:58.29 | beandog | I wonder if those liberation fonts are in portage. |
| 19:58.47 | beandog | coolies |
| 20:00.29 | Sargun | prolly |
| 20:00.32 | Sargun | portage is godly. |
| 20:01.39 | findlay | heh, well, portage has still gots problems |
| 20:02.15 | beandog | its slow. |
| 20:02.22 | beandog | you can quote me on that. |
| 20:02.29 | nick125_lappy | beandog: I think that's mainly because of the database that portage uses. |
| 20:02.34 | findlay | yes! |
| 20:02.42 | beandog | mmm, no. |
| 20:02.43 | beandog | its not why. |
| 20:02.47 | beandog | pkgcore is puh-lenty fast. |
| 20:02.54 | beandog | its just old code, mostly. |
| 20:02.59 | beandog | from what little I understand |
| 20:02.59 | findlay | yeah |
| 20:03.10 | nick125_lappy | beandog: I was guessing either database or dependancy resolution code |
| 20:03.17 | beandog | yah |
| 20:03.21 | findlay | Matt Harrison was saying he wanted to hack on portage and found it unsightly |
| 20:03.23 | beandog | dep resolution is what is slow |
| 20:03.59 | beandog | ah well, even if the code dies, the idea will live on |
| 20:04.13 | beandog | I switch between pkgcore and portage |
| 20:04.41 | findlay | what do you mean? |
| 20:05.00 | beandog | about which. |
| 20:05.17 | findlay | code dying, and switching between pkgcore and portage |
| 20:05.25 | beandog | oh |
| 20:05.48 | beandog | I mean if someone decides to ditch portage itself, the concept of portage in general (and gentoo's package manager) will live on, in just another portage clone. |
| 20:05.51 | beandog | pkgcore being one of them. |
| 20:06.02 | findlay | ok |
| 20:06.16 | findlay | do the devs even recognize that it needs to be worked on? |
| 20:09.09 | beandog | yah |
| 20:09.14 | beandog | theres only one active dev hacking on it though. |
| 20:09.18 | beandog | so things are slow going. |
| 20:09.20 | findlay | :( |
| 20:09.26 | findlay | I should help out :) |
| 20:09.30 | beandog | yahps. |
| 20:09.35 | beandog | thats how most things are, really understaffed. |
| 20:09.41 | beandog | one dev working on major stuff. |
| 20:09.44 | beandog | in a lot of areas. |
| 20:10.14 | findlay | Jakub sure stays on top of the bugs :) |
| 20:10.21 | beandog | yah, that homeboy is on fire. |
| 20:11.10 | findlay | I filed one yesterday and he was on it within 15 minutes, which is when, of course, I found out that it was a dup of some other obscurely related bug |
| 20:11.29 | beandog | yah, he knows his way around. |
| 20:11.56 | findlay | but I guess if somebody else has my bug they will see that it's related to the other and not file a new one |
| 20:12.18 | findlay | I've seen that before a few times |
| 20:12.39 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@216.31.27.110) |
| 20:12.50 | beandog | yah |
| 20:20.19 | Sargun | ,MUST HAVE MORE RAM! |
| 20:20.48 | findlay | ~ram Sargun |
| 20:28.16 | *** join/#utah fozzmoo (n=fozz@166-70-238-250.ip.xmission.com) |
| 20:30.48 | findlay | ~moo ram |
| 20:30.48 | ibot | ACTION moos at ram |
| 20:35.17 | *** join/#utah gillyboat (n=adam@166-70-157-90.ip.xmission.com) |
| 20:35.59 | fozzmoo | ~smack gillyboat |
| 20:35.59 | ibot | ACTION smacks gillyboat upside the head. |
| 20:36.15 | gillyboat | sigh... |
| 20:36.25 | gillyboat | I've heard about this place |
| 20:36.39 | Jayce^ | and yet you still came |
| 20:36.41 | findlay | how does one go about increasing a website's google visibility? |
| 20:36.49 | findlay | ranking? |
| 20:36.59 | goozbach | gillyboat: your gruff won't be found here... |
| 20:37.00 | mheath | Hey, what was the old Hard Drive BIOS size limit? |
| 20:37.03 | findlay | all the magic like that |
| 20:37.06 | mheath | 4GB, right? |
| 20:37.07 | gillyboat | Fozz keeps quoting stuff to me, I thought I'd just avoid the middle man |
| 20:37.17 | findlay | mheath: 1024 'sectors' |
| 20:37.23 | sjansen | o/~ Should I stay or should I go? ~/o |
| 20:37.24 | goozbach | gillyboat: might just be me |
| 20:37.39 | goozbach | gillyboat: you the one playing with ndiswrapper? |
| 20:37.44 | mheath | findlay: which translates as 4GB the way Windows and Linux sees the HDD, right? |
| 20:37.51 | mheath | or was it 8? |
| 20:37.52 | fozzmoo | findlay: Pay Google lots and lots of money. |
| 20:37.52 | goozbach | anyone want to step up and help him out |
| 20:37.57 | gillyboat | gooz: my full nickname is gillyboatgruff. But it's too long, so now I go by gillyboat. Or if that's too long, Gilly. If that's too much, call me G. |
| 20:38.11 | findlay | mheath: I think it depends on your hard drive geometry |
| 20:38.19 | goozbach | like I said, you won't find your gruff here |
| 20:38.23 | sjansen | ~help goozbach out |
| 20:38.34 | goozbach | sjansen: help gillyboat out |
| 20:38.40 | fozzmoo | Well, I gotta run |
| 20:38.47 | goozbach | no me help out, gilly help out, no me help out |
| 20:38.48 | fozzmoo | My daughter broker her arm at school... again. |
| 20:38.55 | goozbach | ouch |
| 20:38.59 | gillyboat | wha? |
| 20:39.00 | goozbach | more calcium |
| 20:39.08 | goozbach | force her to drink more milk |
| 20:39.42 | gillyboat | with one arm already broken, she's less likely to resist |
| 20:39.52 | sjansen | fozzmoo: Tell her to stop bullying telephone poles. |
| 20:40.35 | goozbach | "... again" --some of my favorite words |
| 20:40.47 | goozbach | ndiswrapper experts? |
| 20:41.06 | sjansen | ndiswrapper go down the hole! |
| 20:41.06 | goozbach | ~ndiswrapper |
| 20:42.07 | sjansen | Do I get a cigar, an attitude and a failed movie too? |
| 20:42.29 | mheath | I'm trying to figure out if this laptop has that hard drive size limit... |
| 20:42.34 | mheath | It correctly sees a 5GB HDD |
| 21:01.31 | *** part/#utah gillyboat (n=adam@166-70-157-90.ip.xmission.com) |
| 21:07.10 | *** join/#utah tristanbob (n=tristan@oalug/member/tristanbob) |
| 21:09.33 | ^Migs^ | http://uutah.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7460 |
| 21:09.35 | brac | [Utah Outdoor Forum] |
| 21:10.47 | *** join/#utah tiwula (n=lane@208.64.90.18.static.utahbroadband.com) |
| 21:33.47 | mheath | ^Migs^: Can you think of anywhere in Ogden that will carry laptop hard drives? |
| 21:34.30 | ^Migs^ | PC Laptops? |
| 21:40.39 | mheath | I wonder if Walmart would carry them. |
| 21:41.10 | findlay | doubt it |
| 21:41.20 | nick125_lappy | highly doubt it. |
| 21:42.07 | herlo | I lowly doubt it! |
| 21:43.15 | nick125_lappy | If they did, it would be some crappy IDE drive that's 500 times overpriced. |
| 21:45.02 | jsmith | Circuit City usually has some |
| 21:45.09 | Tene | is there a pcclub in Ogden? |
| 21:47.01 | *** join/#utah macnewbol1 (n=mac@cg.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 21:47.32 | *** join/#utah sjansen (n=sjansen@001-823-601.area1.spcsdns.net) |
| 21:47.44 | sjansen | Anybody know how I can force a kernel panic? |
| 21:48.09 | sjansen | In a recoverable way? So "dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sda" isn't an option. |
| 21:48.19 | nick125_lappy | sjansen: Don't know about kernel panic, but, you can cause some damage by forcing the removal of the root partition (/) |
| 21:48.41 | findlay | give me your root pw, and I'll take care of everything |
| 21:51.55 | herlo | Jayce^: ping |
| 21:56.24 | ^Migs^ | yeah, there's a PC Club in Ogden |
| 21:56.28 | ^Migs^ | they might have them |
| 21:56.40 | ^Migs^ | it's on Riverdale Rd |
| 21:57.57 | *** part/#utah ^Migs^ (n=migs@205.122.50.69) |
| 22:05.10 | herlo | Jayce^: pm |
| 22:42.54 | mheath | PC Club doesn't have them. Already looked on their website. |
| 22:42.58 | mheath | They only have some available online |
| 22:47.41 | mheath | I don't suppose anyone here has any small, old laptop hard drives they'd be willing to part with? |
| 22:48.07 | klys | mheath: maybe |
| 22:48.32 | klys | mheath: but they're not all immediately accessible and some are too physically large for most laptops |
| 22:49.26 | mheath | I got a small little 6GB HDD that died on me |
| 22:49.38 | mheath | STill works, but a ton of the sectors have gone bad |
| 22:49.48 | mheath | hmm |
| 22:49.49 | findlay | mheath: give me your laptop and all your problems will be over |
| 22:50.09 | klys | mheath: biggest I have is 2GB and this one has a laptop that I can use with it. The others are < 1 GB |
| 22:50.23 | mheath | the thing is pretty old. You could porbably get something like it for free, findlay |
| 22:50.32 | mheath | Just a 533Mhz AMD proc, 128MB of RAM I believe. |
| 22:50.40 | mheath | Dead battery, IIRC. |
| 22:50.54 | mheath | Heh. trying to install Win 98SE on it, which is what it shipped with |
| 22:51.13 | mheath | MS 'format' sat for half an hour hanging for a few secs on every bad block it encountered. |
| 22:51.30 | mheath | Might let it keep going, see if I can get it to work |
| 22:51.59 | mheath | I actually got Windows XP to install on the thing (NTFS is better at handling bad blocks, I guess)....but that was unusably slow. |
| 22:52.00 | klys | mheath: was wrong, biggest I have is 4871MB and it's in this laptop for the time being |
| 22:52.25 | mheath | No luck with any Linux stuff I could find, though I didn't mess with any of it much |
| 22:56.41 | findlay | you know you want teh Linux |
| 22:58.59 | mheath | wait |
| 22:59.05 | *** join/#utah jsmith_ (n=jsmith@h46055c93.area3.spcsdns.net) |
| 22:59.10 | mheath | FAT32 CAN handle bad blocks, right? |
| 22:59.23 | mheath | It's not going to come back after waiting forever and just say "error", I hope. |
| 23:00.13 | klys | mheath: an IDE drive with bad blocks multiplies the bad blocks with continued use until the drive becomes unusable. It's typically only a matter of time before your partitions disappear |
| 23:02.12 | klys | mheath: if it was a legit problem with the blocks (which it assuredly isn't), yes your format will keep it's place and the number of bad blocks reported is accurate |
| 23:03.07 | findlay | why are my fingers crooked? |
| 23:06.30 | levi | findlay: They were all broken by the aliens that abducted you. |
| 23:06.42 | klys | levi: can I pm you? |
| 23:06.50 | levi | klys: Sure. |
| 23:07.21 | findlay | levi: aw |
| 23:07.38 | findlay | levi: makes it hard for me to reach 4th finger positions on my viola |
| 23:07.51 | levi | findlay: Curse those aliens! |
| 23:07.58 | findlay | ~curse alines |
| 23:08.00 | ibot | May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, alines ! |
| 23:10.30 | klys | s/ne/en/ |
| 23:11.40 | findlay | s/ne/en/ |
| 23:12.27 | klys | findlay: do you also play guitar? |
| 23:13.21 | levi | klys: If you want to pm me, you should do it quickly, because I'm heading home soon. |
| 23:13.27 | klys | levi: I did |
| 23:13.41 | klys | levi: It shows up in another window |
| 23:13.52 | findlay | klys: no |
| 23:14.15 | elg | klys: you're probably not registered with nickserv |
| 23:14.19 | klys | levi: nwhat irc client are you using? |
| 23:14.21 | levi | You may have thought that you did, but I did not receive it. |
| 23:14.41 | findlay | nickserv doesn't allow PM's from unregistered nicks on freenode |
| 23:15.14 | klys | elg: oh, sorry I don't have instructions on that |
| 23:15.26 | elg | \/msg nickserv help |
| 23:15.41 | elg | er, no backslash (was trying to escape /) |
| 23:17.18 | mheath | klys: Yeah, but the drive seems to have one small segment (about 1% of the drive) right in the middle thats bad. All the rest is fine. |
| 23:17.50 | klys | mheath: good luck |
| 23:17.52 | findlay | mheath: have you tried doing a low level format? That works sometimes for me |
| 23:18.06 | *** join/#utah cridrferi (n=Chelle@67.182.192.235) |
| 23:19.38 | mheath | findlay: Haven't tried that, no. What do you mean by low level format? |
| 23:20.22 | findlay | mheath: basically it just writes a bunch of zeros to every bit on the disk |
| 23:20.52 | mheath | findlay: just like dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/hda ? |
| 23:21.06 | findlay | kind of, I'm not sure |
| 23:23.07 | mheath | I might actually try that... |
| 23:23.15 | mheath | That would help me tell whats up with the drive better, anyway. |
| 23:24.30 | findlay | just run knoppix and do a badblocks test |
| 23:30.44 | findlay | exciting stuff |
| 23:30.50 | findlay | s/exciting/confusing/ |
| 23:31.34 | mheath | findlay: how do you do that? |
| 23:32.21 | mheath | nevermind :P |
| 23:32.31 | mheath | Heh, stupid question, I know, but I've never had to deal with HDD problems |
| 23:32.32 | findlay | mheath: svn diff > diff.1 && svn update && svn diff > diff.2 && diff diff.1 diff.2 |
| 23:32.39 | findlay | oh |
| 23:32.45 | findlay | get a knoppix CD |
| 23:32.47 | findlay | boot it |
| 23:32.56 | findlay | <ctrl><alt><F1> |
| 23:33.00 | findlay | screen |
| 23:33.07 | findlay | time badblocks /dev/hda |
| 23:33.19 | findlay | or |
| 23:33.32 | findlay | time badblocks /dev/hda > badblocks_on_hda |
| 23:37.14 | mheath | why time? :P |
| 23:38.04 | elg | you need time to calculate how long the bad blocks have been bad |
| 23:38.30 | findlay | because I always time longs commands |
| 23:38.48 | findlay | it's kind of instinctive by now |
| 23:39.01 | mheath | meh. |
| 23:39.09 | findlay | tells you how long it took |
| 23:41.11 | mheath | well, I knew that |
| 23:41.16 | mheath | Hmm |
| 23:41.22 | mheath | If it does have badblocks (which it does) |
| 23:41.36 | mheath | is it normal to see some IDE I/O errors from the kernel, along with the bad blocks list? |
| 23:42.04 | findlay | that means bad news in my knowledge |
| 23:42.10 | findlay | which isn't very extensive |
| 23:42.34 | vontrapp | ~time findlay |
| 23:42.49 | mheath | findlay: Yeah, but they're minor, only occur during the small segment of bad blocks... |
| 23:59.58 | Tene | http://secondverse.wordpress.com/2007/06/20/mocking-surface/ is very funny |