| 00:05.05 | mrpull | i think I heard about one here in Lehi |
| 00:06.22 | mrpull | http://www.gamerzz.com/ |
| 00:06.39 | mheath | I saw that too |
| 00:06.53 | mheath | Except that page hasn't been touched in a long time |
| 00:07.06 | mheath | And they have news items claiming an event was a success because 18 people showed up. |
| 00:07.39 | mrpull | i believe that is the one i heard about |
| 00:07.43 | mrpull | i dont know if they are still around |
| 00:07.53 | mrpull | i wouldn't invest my money |
| 00:08.03 | mrpull | in that venture |
| 00:08.34 | mheath | My big question is: do people have a reason to play computer games at a cafe versus their home? |
| 00:08.55 | mheath | What would motivate people to want to come out and pay a small amount to play Half-Life, rather than play it at home? |
| 00:12.42 | mrpull | socializing |
| 00:12.44 | mrpull | food |
| 00:12.48 | mrpull | drinks |
| 00:15.42 | Sargun | mheath, Hey |
| 00:15.51 | Sargun | mheath, They might be able to. |
| 00:16.02 | Sargun | mheath, Make an inflatable one |
| 00:22.07 | emcnabb | mheath: Sundays are usually quiet |
| 00:29.09 | *** join/#utah linuxalien (i=UNKNOWN@sp1.cotse.net) |
| 00:29.20 | mheath | What? Make an inflatable what? |
| 00:29.28 | mheath | emcnabb: yeah, I know. |
| 00:29.35 | mheath | This channel seems more quiett than usual, though. |
| 00:40.51 | ScytheBlade1 | Sunday. |
| 01:00.16 | emcnabb | mheath: it's normal |
| 01:01.05 | emcnabb | mheath: so did you ever get kicked out of the Navy? |
| 01:02.20 | mheath | emcnabb: Not yet. |
| 01:02.37 | mheath | Waiting on my appointment with orthopedics now. |
| 01:03.58 | emcnabb | gotcha |
| 01:20.20 | vontrapp | no ne is trying to avoid work on sunday |
| 01:27.29 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@216.31.27.110) |
| 02:28.19 | *** join/#utah nick125_lappy (n=nick@atarack/staff/nick125) |
| 02:50.19 | bonez39 | where can I find a printing guru? |
| 02:52.59 | nick125_lappy | Anyone here know some kind of decent guide for learning perl? |
| 03:00.34 | ScytheBlade1 | ! |
| 03:00.36 | ScytheBlade1 | Starcraft 2! |
| 03:00.37 | ScytheBlade1 | http://capricasix.com/blizz_.jpg |
| 03:00.38 | ScytheBlade1 | ! |
| 03:01.03 | vontrapp | it's about time |
| 03:01.36 | ScytheBlade1 | That screenshot makes me all kinds of hot |
| 03:15.02 | mrpull | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:17.42 | nick125_lappy | mrpull: I don't really want to buy a book (especially at 9 at night, with no money) |
| 03:18.51 | mrpull | are you comfortable with any other scripting languages? |
| 03:19.39 | *** join/#utah ScytheBlade1 (n=Death@about/pxe/ScytheBlade1) |
| 03:20.14 | nick125_lappy | mrpull: python, a tad bit of php and ruby |
| 03:20.24 | *** join/#utah ScytheBlade1 (n=Death@about/pxe/ScytheBlade1) |
| 03:21.58 | mrpull | you could try poking around the perl man pages |
| 03:22.04 | mrpull | http://perldoc.perl.org/index-language.html |
| 03:28.11 | mrpull | or take a look at the tutorial on perl.com |
| 03:28.12 | mrpull | http://www.perl.com/pub/a/2000/10/begperl1.html |
| 03:28.16 | brac | [perl.com: Beginner's Introduction to Perl] |
| 03:47.54 | nick125_lappy | Hrm, how do I get the number of objects in an array in perl? |
| 03:51.02 | levi_home | nick125_lappy: You access it in a scalar context. |
| 03:51.33 | levi_home | I.e., assign the array variable to a scalar variable. |
| 04:12.03 | elg | anyone familiar with SASL at the protocol level? specifically, what does it take for a protocol to support SASL for authentication? likewise for TLS for encryption |
| 04:12.30 | elg | I'm designing an application protocol and I'd like to allow it to grow into SASL and TLS, but not deal with it up front |
| 04:27.57 | ScytheBlade1 | No idea about SASL |
| 04:28.10 | ScytheBlade1 | But TLS can be initiated at any point in time during communication |
| 04:28.33 | ScytheBlade1 | This is different from SSL, in the sense that it starts out with encryption |
| 04:29.06 | ScytheBlade1 | That's how they implimented TLS SMTP. Just threw in another "capabilities" flag and when the client saw it, started TLS negoriations |
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| 08:24.19 | Tene | So, the openclue tracker won't load on IE for me, on any windows machine I try to load it on. |
| 08:31.26 | Sargun | OpenClue? |
| 08:31.46 | Sargun | Is there a closed clue? |
| 08:31.49 | Tene | http://openclue.org/ut/ |
| 08:32.05 | Tene | shut your stupid mouth, sargun. shut your mouth and die. |
| 08:33.28 | Sargun | Heh |
| 10:49.34 | herlo | Tene: openclue has a tracker? |
| 12:30.26 | *** join/#utah graphyx (n=graphyx@205.208.245.105) |
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| 13:11.47 | *** join/#utah ^Migs^ (n=migs@205.122.50.69) |
| 13:21.37 | ^Migs^ | http://bash.org/?758032 |
| 13:21.38 | *** part/#utah mrpull (n=Jake@mail.pollmann.us) |
| 13:21.38 | brac | [QDB: Quote #758032] |
| 13:23.45 | ^Migs^ | hahaha: http://bash.org/?757679 |
| 13:23.46 | brac | [QDB: Quote #757679] |
| 13:34.45 | ^Migs^ | http://www.theonion.com/content/video/breaking_news_something_happening |
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| 14:23.18 | *** join/#utah ^Migs^ (n=migs@205.122.50.69) |
| 14:26.03 | ^Migs^ | so my wife's cousin came to visit over the weekend, and brought her 3 year-old daughter to play with my kids and the neighborhood kids. Little 3 year-old, who comes from a pretty awful home and was pretty much doomed to a trash famiyl from birth, starts swearing to the other kids, calling them "big bi***es" and whatnot. Now I have to apologize to a ton of parents. |
| 14:33.57 | graphyx | ^Migs^: Were you the one complaining about how the neighbor 5 year old always comes over and breaks the toys? |
| 14:34.49 | graphyx | what is a good gui memory / proc load meter for linux(ubuntu)? |
| 14:35.04 | ^Migs^ | 8 year old |
| 14:36.34 | ^Migs^ | and yes, she's broken a ton of my kids' toys |
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| 14:37.04 | ^Migs^ | nobody else even lets this family's kids in their houses, and we're starting to keep her out of the house now, too |
| 14:38.35 | graphyx | ^Migs^: Well it seems that either you will have a ton of work in keeping your family clean from all the influences of your wife's family OR you will need to move away and don't put on a forwarding address. |
| 14:39.10 | graphyx | You could just move to a foreign country, do you speak any other languages? |
| 14:39.31 | ^Migs^ | I feel bad about this one. Her cousin is pretty much her only friend now. Unfortunately she's in an abusive relationship with an idiot boyfriend, and she's pregnant again. |
| 14:39.43 | ^Migs^ | I speak German somewhat. I can read it reasonably well, at least. |
| 14:39.51 | graphyx | those are the worst. |
| 14:40.05 | graphyx | We had a tenant that was a single mom with 1 kid. |
| 14:40.22 | graphyx | she lived with her friend, a divorced mom with 2 kids. |
| 14:40.53 | graphyx | They ended up not paying the rent for a couple of months and moved out without paying the back rent. |
| 14:41.14 | graphyx | but the single (never married) mom ended up pregnant once more. |
| 14:41.30 | graphyx | she was the epitome of a welfare mom. |
| 14:41.44 | graphyx | but she would just go out and blow her money on shoes and stuff. |
| 14:42.10 | graphyx | and the other bought a 1K$ pair of couches 2 monts prior to moving out and not paying the rent. |
| 14:42.24 | graphyx | We were at the store and it had sold on it with her name |
| 14:42.31 | graphyx | ticked me off. |
| 14:43.02 | ^Migs^ | wow |
| 14:43.16 | ^Migs^ | real champs |
| 14:46.51 | mheath | Mmm, lunch break :) |
| 14:47.26 | ^Migs^ | I'm surprised they actually bought the couches, and didn't get them from Rent-A-Center |
| 14:47.32 | mheath | Lunch is good. |
| 14:51.15 | ^Migs^ | I think the current situation, with mortgage rates being low and all that, is causing all the ghetto dwellers and trailer park trash to move up into decent neighborhoods. I live in a pretty nice neighborhood i think, but it seems we've been getting an influx of undesirables. And now apparently the biggest Wal-Mart in Utah is going to be built just a few blocks away from our house, so our property values will drop drastically. |
| 14:52.24 | graphyx | that sucks |
| 14:52.35 | graphyx | should get out while the getting is good |
| 14:52.54 | graphyx | or at a minimum, less worse. |
| 14:55.28 | Jayce^ | ^Migs^, actually, the wal-mart nearby tends to push up most neighborhoods, especailly entry to mid-level |
| 14:55.44 | ^Migs^ | hmmm |
| 14:56.04 | ^Migs^ | well, if that happens, then great. Why would it increase values, though? |
| 14:56.25 | graphyx | Jayce^: Did you get the notice? We are trying to solve ^Migs^ problems by convincing him to abbandond his in laws. |
| 14:56.29 | ^Migs^ | it'll probably be pretty nice, but it seems a little unnecessary, since there's already a Wal-Mart in Riverdale, less than 5 minutes away from me |
| 14:56.31 | graphyx | You aren't onboard! |
| 14:56.51 | ^Migs^ | They're trying to cater to all the farmers out in Hooper and stuff |
| 14:56.58 | graphyx | ^Migs^: Well don't feel too bad about the walmart thing |
| 14:57.02 | ^Migs^ | the extra traffic is going to suck |
| 14:57.07 | ^Migs^ | I like Wal-Mart and all, just not so close to me |
| 14:57.09 | graphyx | We have 2 already in a town of 50K people |
| 14:57.23 | graphyx | and they wanted to put in a third, but were shot down. |
| 14:57.35 | ^Migs^ | we have a couple Wal-Mart supercenters, and a couple Wal-Mart neighborhood markets |
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| 14:58.28 | levi | ^Migs^: It's like that everywhere in Utah, I fear. |
| 14:59.09 | *** join/#utah neybar (n=jalance@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 14:59.55 | ^Migs^ | I think I'm more concerned about people driving up into my neighborhood who are looking for trouble. |
| 15:00.09 | levi | Mortgage rates may be low, but home prices are way high. I guess one follows the other, but it's unfortunate. |
| 15:00.48 | Jayce^ | it can be quite disconcerting when you can feel somebody looking over your shoulder, especially when your back is against a second story window.. |
| 15:00.54 | ^Migs^ | I was able to buy my home before its value skyrocketed |
| 15:00.57 | Jayce^ | darn window cleaners... |
| 15:00.57 | ^Migs^ | well not "skyrocketed" |
| 15:01.03 | ^Migs^ | but it's gone up a goodly amount |
| 15:01.30 | Jayce^ | yeah, we're really thinking about selling ours now, moving up... |
| 15:01.43 | ^Migs^ | does landscaping usually increase a home's value, or is it mainly just the home itself? |
| 15:01.59 | ^Migs^ | because I'm planning on doing a ton of that this summer ("planning on" being the keywords) |
| 15:02.08 | Jayce^ | landscaping can help quite a bit |
| 15:02.12 | graphyx | landscaping will help its saleability, but not typically its value |
| 15:02.17 | ^Migs^ | oh okay |
| 15:02.29 | Jayce^ | both in value (usually hardscaping) and saleability via plants |
| 15:02.31 | graphyx | but that is just what I have heard |
| 15:02.42 | ^Migs^ | what's hardscaping? |
| 15:03.03 | *** join/#utah tiwula (n=lane@208.64.90.18.utahbroadband.com) |
| 15:03.23 | Jayce^ | ^Migs^, fixed items, concrete, rock, deck, patio work.. |
| 15:03.44 | ^Migs^ | oh okay |
| 15:04.18 | ^Migs^ | you know what I would leave that I don't see on many homes anymore? A second-level deck that comes off the upstairs master bedroom? |
| 15:04.28 | ^Migs^ | my parents' first house had that, and I thought it was the neatest thing |
| 15:05.25 | graphyx | that would be cool |
| 15:05.57 | graphyx | Jayce^: Well that is good to know, we are about done replacing the deck on our house |
| 15:06.13 | graphyx | One of the sister missionaries put their foot through it. |
| 15:06.22 | levi | Heh. |
| 15:06.25 | Jayce^ | hehe.. sounds like an average sister :) |
| 15:06.32 | ^Migs^ | why did I use the word "leave"? |
| 15:06.36 | ^Migs^ | I don't evenk now how I got that |
| 15:06.39 | ^Migs^ | *even know |
| 15:06.47 | ^Migs^ | oh, "love" |
| 15:06.48 | *** join/#utah Keighvin (n=ptomlins@kei.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 15:06.49 | ^Migs^ | weird |
| 15:06.53 | ^Migs^ | hey Keighvin |
| 15:06.55 | graphyx | it was getting bad and I didn't want to do it, but my wife bought the wood and started working on it without me. |
| 15:06.57 | Keighvin | ~lart Jayce^ |
| 15:06.57 | ibot | stabs Jayce^ |
| 15:07.05 | Jayce^ | ~lart Keighvin |
| 15:07.05 | ibot | lowers Keighvin's priority |
| 15:07.12 | Keighvin | How nice. |
| 15:07.13 | graphyx | So I had to start working on it and do it right |
| 15:07.35 | graphyx | I have to remove all the boards that she put in and respace them. |
| 15:08.10 | levi | Heh. |
| 15:08.42 | levi | My wife is that way, too. She's not very patient with projects, she just goes in and tries to get them done. |
| 15:09.19 | levi | She put a zillion holes in the wall putting up some curtains in the baby's room. |
| 15:09.42 | graphyx | I would be more happy with her gumption if she would give me the time to formulate an overall plan |
| 15:09.50 | levi | Indeed. |
| 15:09.57 | graphyx | that perhaps would have increased the value without much more cost. |
| 15:10.09 | graphyx | instead she just decided for the both of us |
| 15:10.15 | graphyx | which I didn't care for. |
| 15:10.29 | levi | I keep getting the 'Let's re-do the bathroom! Just take a long weekend and we can tear everything out, put in tile, etc.' |
| 15:10.55 | levi | That was while I was in the middle of a semester at school, too. |
| 15:11.57 | graphyx | um she hasn't done that type of think before has she. |
| 15:12.20 | graphyx | the best counter is, lets put in a jacusi tub, |
| 15:12.30 | levi | We tiled the floor in the kitchen. |
| 15:12.36 | graphyx | but we will have to save up to get it and plan it out right |
| 15:12.44 | graphyx | and that delays it long enough to get a good plan. |
| 15:12.52 | ^Migs^ | is tiling really as easy as I keep hearing it is? |
| 15:12.55 | graphyx | levi how did that turn out? |
| 15:13.03 | graphyx | ^Migs^: it is easy to do. |
| 15:13.14 | graphyx | but takes some skill to make it look right and work well. |
| 15:13.16 | ^Migs^ | assuming you have a rectangular room, I imagine |
| 15:13.16 | levi | But that itself took a whole weekend, and I didn't have school or a baby then. |
| 15:13.24 | graphyx | ok |
| 15:13.26 | levi | It turned out really well, actually. |
| 15:13.35 | graphyx | so she does have some experience with that. |
| 15:13.56 | levi | It wasn't without a couple of hitches, though. |
| 15:13.59 | graphyx | She tried to regrout the counter top of a kitchen and that didn't work out so good. |
| 15:14.08 | graphyx | I mean my wife |
| 15:14.20 | levi | The floor was cracked in a couple of places and uneven, so I had to put down some self-leveling concrete. |
| 15:14.25 | graphyx | now she wants to outsource that part of getting out house done. |
| 15:14.28 | ^Migs^ | I think I'm more of an outdoor redecorator than an indoor redecorator |
| 15:14.31 | ^Migs^ | haha |
| 15:14.33 | ^Migs^ | good plan |
| 15:14.35 | levi | And I didn't spread it out fast enough, so I had to put down a second layer. |
| 15:14.48 | graphyx | self-leveling???? |
| 15:15.01 | graphyx | does it just flow like water for 10 minutes? |
| 15:15.05 | graphyx | and then stiffen? |
| 15:15.19 | levi | Not quite like water, but that's the general idea. |
| 15:15.28 | graphyx | cool |
| 15:15.34 | graphyx | did it work as billed? |
| 15:16.17 | levi | Yup, as long as I mixed it, poured it, and shoved it around very quickly. |
| 15:17.41 | *** join/#utah lukfugl (n=lukfugl@dsl092-197-124.sea1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 15:18.37 | levi | We pretty much laid out all the tile except for the pieces we'd need to cut with the spacers between them and shifted them a bit to get them exactly where we wanted. Then we marked and cut all the tile for the edges and test-fit them. Then we went back through and cemented them down one section at a time. |
| 15:19.55 | levi | Anyway, the tile part of the bathroom doesn't worry me anymore, since I've already done that. What I'm worried about is the fact that she wants to replace everything else, which will involve plumbing and perhaps other unforseen skills. |
| 15:22.42 | graphyx | levi: heh, yeah that is a pain |
| 15:22.43 | goozbach | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:23.07 | graphyx | that is why it is good to have someone who has done it as a reference in case things fall apart. |
| 15:23.07 | levi | goozbach: Yup. |
| 15:23.42 | levi | Definitely not a weekend project. |
| 15:24.02 | graphyx | If we don't move out of here in the next 2 months or so my wife is probably going to move down the redo the entire bathroom trail. |
| 15:25.07 | levi | I'm wondering how much of it the local tile store install contractors would be able to do. |
| 15:25.08 | goozbach | one of the best things about being the grandson of a general contractor, and having worked with him for a few summers, is a knowing what to pay for and what to do yourself |
| 15:26.36 | goozbach | there are things you just shouldn't do unless you're a specialist |
| 15:26.37 | levi | (like a lot of plumbing tasks, I'm sure) |
| 15:26.41 | goozbach | hanging trusses, pouring basement walls, most in-wall plumbing, vertical tile, etc... |
| 15:27.18 | graphyx | goozbach: Good to know. |
| 15:27.46 | graphyx | I may have to hit you up in the future. |
| 15:28.25 | graphyx | In wall plumbing doesn't seem that bad, not that I have done it, but what are the hang ups? |
| 15:29.01 | levi | Ew, I just got a spam for incest videos. :/ |
| 15:30.34 | graphyx | Who wants a web 2.0 business model to work on and make money? |
| 15:31.00 | graphyx | not that I have any money to pay |
| 15:31.01 | graphyx | just an idea |
| 15:31.11 | ^Migs^ | lay it out |
| 15:31.23 | graphyx | An online version of financial books |
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| 15:31.32 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 15:31.38 | jsmith | graphyx: There's already an online version of Quickbooks |
| 15:31.42 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@dhcp13.cs.nmsu.edu) |
| 15:31.50 | ^Migs^ | oh well, it was a good try |
| 15:31.54 | jsmith | graphyx: You can also use SQLedger (or one of the forks) |
| 15:31.55 | graphyx | that ties in real time notifications from the various banks, stocks and stuff that you use |
| 15:32.09 | lukfugl | -lart elg |
| 15:32.11 | graphyx | not just managing your books but plugging in the values real time |
| 15:32.25 | ^Migs^ | cool |
| 15:32.37 | ^Migs^ | so it would be like an RSS feed? |
| 15:32.44 | levi | I dunno about you, but I wouldn't want a web service handling my books. |
| 15:32.53 | ^Migs^ | me neither |
| 15:32.54 | elg | -lart lukfugl |
| 15:33.02 | ^Migs^ | but I'm sure there's tons of people out there who would |
| 15:33.03 | lukfugl | hah. self larted |
| 15:33.06 | vontrapp | ^Migs^: sell now!! |
| 15:33.12 | vontrapp | get out of there |
| 15:33.18 | vontrapp | run from the walmart |
| 15:33.43 | vontrapp | and everything else |
| 15:33.43 | vontrapp | before it's too late |
| 15:33.43 | lukfugl | elg: did vontrapp tell you the bad news? |
| 15:34.32 | elg | no bricks. punk |
| 15:34.41 | elg | he's just awol, or did he ever get ahold of you? |
| 15:35.10 | graphyx | levi: the sad truth is that online systems already deal with most of your information |
| 15:35.11 | lukfugl | I haven't heard anything -- it was Russel that emailed him. He still hadn't heard from him by Sunday noonish |
| 15:35.24 | graphyx | This would just be a collection point to make it easier to handle it all. |
| 15:35.51 | elg | graphyx: there's a big difference between losers collecting my information and me giving my information to losers |
| 15:36.34 | levi | graphyx: Well, they're online-accessible services offered by the brick&mortar companies I've already chosen to work with, not some web startup. |
| 15:36.41 | graphyx | So you are saying that the devs would have to be losers? |
| 15:37.57 | graphyx | my favorite online action the print function. It will typically show the entire article on one page and strip out all the ads instead of having to move throught 8 pages featuring 1 paragraph each. |
| 15:42.12 | elg | graphyx: nobody cares about giving their information to nonlosers. everyone (rightly) assumes the other end is losers unless verified to be nonlosers |
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| 15:45.00 | graphyx | elg: fair enought |
| 15:45.48 | elg | no offense to fozz but pink floyd is boring |
| 15:46.04 | levi | Heh. |
| 15:49.18 | Keighvin | elg: pink floyd wasn't necessarily designed as music to be experienced without... optional upgrades, shall we say. |
| 15:49.34 | elg | :) |
| 15:52.03 | jsmith | No wonder I never liked it |
| 15:52.15 | jsmith | (even if Douglas Adams *was* their guest drummer) |
| 15:52.16 | elg | ~upgrade jsmith |
| 15:52.30 | jsmith | No!!!!!!!! |
| 15:52.35 | jsmith | I don't need an upgrade... I'm a classic :-) |
| 15:52.47 | elg | ~overhaul jsmith |
| 15:52.52 | vontrapp | we will probobly be doing a bungch of home improvement stuff real soon |
| 15:52.57 | jsmith | ~zap elg |
| 15:52.59 | ibot | ACTION takes out a cattle prod and gives elg a good jolt. |
| 15:53.40 | elg | moo |
| 15:53.40 | graphyx | ~recycle jsmith |
| 15:53.56 | elg | vontrapp: i thought the owner was going to do it |
| 15:53.56 | jsmith | And yes, I meant "electrical plumbing" |
| 15:54.07 | vontrapp | i wouldn't mind putting some work in myself as long as i don't have to put money in |
| 15:54.24 | vontrapp | mmmm, electrical plumbing |
| 15:54.38 | graphyx | jsmith: is that for the high voltage stuff? |
| 15:54.46 | graphyx | like the enterance cables and such? |
| 15:54.58 | jsmith | Naw... just Cat 5 |
| 15:55.00 | elg | vontrapp: time is money |
| 15:55.27 | graphyx | where does the plumbing part come in then? |
| 15:55.38 | elg | it has to do with the pants he wears |
| 15:55.50 | graphyx | lol |
| 15:55.52 | jsmith | graphyx: There's a difference between a plumber and a pipe-fitter |
| 15:56.17 | graphyx | jsmith: got a link or just a soapbox? |
| 15:56.22 | vontrapp | pipe fitters can also fit pants? |
| 15:56.32 | jsmith | pipefitters don't know shit |
| 15:56.44 | graphyx | is that a pun? |
| 15:56.52 | jsmith | :-) |
| 15:57.01 | graphyx | or just foul language? |
| 15:57.06 | jsmith | No, it was a pun |
| 15:57.13 | graphyx | ok |
| 15:57.18 | levi | Cool, Squeak is getting a FreeType plugin: http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/uploads/5984/world2.png |
| 15:57.36 | graphyx | cause I certainly wouldn't want to crack a mainline myself. |
| 15:58.04 | vontrapp | don't forget that flex pipe sameone was talking about an plug |
| 15:58.06 | jsmith | graphyx: I call it "electrical plumbing" because it's a lot like plumbing... running the "pipes" everywhere. |
| 15:58.30 | graphyx | Why not just call it eletrical work? |
| 15:58.43 | graphyx | cause that is exactly like running the wires all over. |
| 15:59.07 | graphyx | home plumbing is more like thicknet anyway |
| 15:59.12 | graphyx | serially installed! |
| 16:02.49 | *** join/#utah sjansen (n=sjansen@dhcp222.openinternet.gurulabs.com) |
| 16:02.54 | sjansen | ~seen redbeard2 |
| 16:03.34 | ibot | redbeard2 is currently on #ubuntu-utah (3h 10m 17s) #utah (3h 10m 17s), last said: 'ah, found it in inkscape'. |
| 16:03.34 | elg | -lart sjansen |
| 16:03.35 | herlo | ~poo sjansen |
| 16:03.42 | ibot | ACTION summons a troop of flying monkeys to fling their poo at sjansen |
| 16:03.42 | elg | -lart maquis |
| 16:03.42 | sjansen | Ha! You fail! I never had any mojo to begin with! |
| 16:03.44 | herlo | ibot: you are slow today |
| 16:03.47 | ibot | herlo: what are you talking about? |
| 16:03.47 | sjansen | ~ping redbeard2 |
| 16:03.49 | ibot | pong redbeard2 |
| 16:03.56 | herlo | ibot: your slowness |
| 16:04.15 | emcnabb | haha, sjansen have mojo... /me laughs |
| 16:04.34 | *** join/#utah Lone_Wanderer (n=Lone_Wan@cg.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 16:11.59 | redbeard2 | sjansen: what up, g? |
| 16:12.06 | elg | also taking bets on whether the lab ever gets posted, or if he just chickens out and never assigns it |
| 16:15.07 | elg | -roulette |
| 16:15.07 | brac | elg: chamber 2 of 6 => +click+ |
| 16:16.04 | rsimpkins | 41 members in the linked in group. I thought there would be like 5 or 6. Kinda interesting. |
| 16:19.35 | elg | it's a one-time thing |
| 16:27.33 | Supaplex | I wonder what royalties O'Reilly returns to their authors. |
| 16:28.00 | elg | your brain is leaking again |
| 16:28.01 | lukfugl | -roulette |
| 16:28.02 | brac | lukfugl: chamber 3 of 6 => +click+ |
| 16:31.03 | rsimpkins | Supaplex: ask jsmith. |
| 16:31.51 | Supaplex | oh yea, asterisk tfot. :) |
| 16:33.32 | Keighvin | -roulette |
| 16:33.32 | brac | Keighvin: chamber 4 of 6 => *BANG* |
| 16:35.25 | Lone_Wanderer | Does anyone know why Open Office isn't correctly interpreting some of these carriage returns? Does email to weird things with them or something? |
| 16:38.00 | graphyx | elg: I had to manually edit the xorg.conf to include the 1280x1024 resolution in ubuntu. Is there a gui based way of taking care of that? I literally just added the value to the resolution list. |
| 16:38.24 | elg | got me |
| 16:38.49 | graphyx | and restarted x and it worked just fine |
| 16:40.54 | Supaplex | a lot of linux development favors something that works over a gui. config files work. |
| 16:41.31 | graphyx | granted |
| 16:42.02 | graphyx | however I expected that there would be a better way to do it given the "end user" friendly pose that ubuntu in attempting to take. |
| 16:42.31 | Keighvin | -roulette |
| 16:42.31 | brac | Keighvin: chamber 1 of 6 => +click+ |
| 16:43.20 | elg | i'm no ubuntu guru |
| 16:43.31 | lukfugl | -roulette |
| 16:43.32 | brac | lukfugl: chamber 2 of 6 => +click+ |
| 16:43.34 | elg | almost everything I know about ubuntu is debian carryover |
| 16:43.40 | graphyx | elg: fair enough |
| 16:43.46 | elg | so insofar as ubuntu is like debian, i'm an ubuntu guru |
| 16:43.52 | graphyx | I see |
| 16:44.28 | Supaplex | they have their own subtle ways of breaking stuff anyways :) |
| 16:51.18 | JoshH | graphyx the need to edit xorg.conf to fix resolutions is one of the main complaints i've been hearing about ubuntu lately, if the rez you want isn't in the display preferences, that's the only way |
| 16:51.31 | graphyx | JoshH: Ok |
| 16:51.37 | graphyx | Well at least it is known |
| 16:51.41 | JoshH | until the next xorg version, which apparently won't ever need edits at all |
| 16:51.55 | graphyx | When is that scheduled for release? |
| 16:52.03 | JoshH | don't know |
| 16:52.13 | graphyx | Well good to know. |
| 16:53.07 | graphyx | thanks |
| 16:53.19 | Keighvin | I have to help my aunt fix her robot. |
| 16:54.12 | JoshH | i've got feisty at home, it's my first time using ubuntu, i like it so far, but i'm worried about how future upgrades will go, i'm used to just keeping sid updated |
| 16:54.47 | graphyx | heh |
| 16:54.50 | graphyx | sid? |
| 16:55.00 | JoshH | debian unstable |
| 16:55.05 | Supaplex | unstable branch, debian (bleeding edge) |
| 16:58.07 | JoshH | which ubuntu is based on, and now sid already has newer packages than feisty |
| 16:58.17 | JoshH | at least for some things |
| 17:03.13 | levi | JoshH: I finally switched to Ubuntu because Debian's gnome maintainers were perpetually behind, and I use a lot of gnome stuff. |
| 17:03.42 | JoshH | ya, but my sid at work now has a newer gnome than my feisty at home heh |
| 17:03.54 | levi | Heh. I guess they finally got their act together. |
| 17:04.25 | JoshH | it could have just been etch slowing things down too, sid always takes off after a new stable is out |
| 17:04.59 | levi | Anyway, I'm relatively happy with Ubuntu's release cycle. I end up with stuff that's new enough, and fewer things break in the process. |
| 17:05.55 | JoshH | as long as a dist-upgrade to the next one works out, i'll be satisifed, but if it doesn't, it would basically be like fedora with debs |
| 17:06.42 | Supaplex | fedora ftw :P |
| 17:06.54 | JoshH | apparently some people had breakage upgrading from edgy, but based on what i read, it seems like mostly newbs |
| 17:07.04 | herlo | Supaplex: I agree |
| 17:07.11 | JoshH | so i'm optimistic |
| 17:07.34 | rsimpkins | So after Debian runs out of toy story chars, what are they going to base the release names on next? |
| 17:07.54 | herlo | rsimpkins: types of pie |
| 17:08.06 | herlo | rsimpkins: man made elements |
| 17:08.13 | rsimpkins | I vote for superheros. |
| 17:08.21 | rsimpkins | the 'green lantern' release. :) |
| 17:08.31 | herlo | rsimpkins: characters from Dukes of Hazzard |
| 17:08.39 | herlo | rsimpkins: fruits |
| 17:08.42 | Keighvin | "I vote for superheros." I want that as a bumper sticker now. |
| 17:08.58 | herlo | rsimpkins: the "Orange" release was better than the "Watermelon" one |
| 17:09.19 | herlo | rsimpkins: types of martial arts |
| 17:09.24 | rsimpkins | The fruits have to be more exotic, like 'kiwi' and 'mango' and what not. :) |
| 17:09.46 | herlo | could be liquor |
| 17:09.55 | herlo | the "Vodka" release |
| 17:09.59 | rsimpkins | I figured they did one pixar movie, and I'm wondering if they'll just move on to another one like finding nemo or something. |
| 17:11.00 | herlo | Spiced Rum |
| 17:11.17 | Supaplex | herlo: fear the "lemon" release. |
| 17:11.19 | herlo | I would never like the "Gin" release |
| 17:11.26 | herlo | Supaplex: for sure |
| 17:11.56 | herlo | I can just see the developers missing the point of that release... |
| 17:12.17 | Supaplex | nonsense, they'll just ask Pixar to release another Toy Story with 5 more names. That'll do for another decade. |
| 17:12.31 | herlo | or two decades... |
| 17:12.42 | herlo | If we haven't released anything in 3 years, just wait longer! |
| 17:13.06 | Supaplex | yeah. |
| 17:13.43 | Supaplex | debian, still supporting cobol because the next release hasn't come yet. |
| 17:13.45 | Supaplex | ;) |
| 17:15.20 | rsimpkins | So what do you do when you've configured an entire system to treat a particular user special, and you wanna change the username. :) *sigh* |
| 17:15.46 | Supaplex | herlo: "that" ? |
| 17:15.57 | herlo | If we haven't released anything in 3 years, just wait longer! |
| 17:16.03 | Supaplex | ahh |
| 17:16.03 | rsimpkins | add another user with the same home dir, and chown the home dir (fixing what breaks), putting the new user in the old user's group is my working plan |
| 17:16.12 | *** join/#utah amcnabb (n=amcnabb@c-71-195-212-252.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 17:16.23 | herlo | rsimpkins: usermod doesn't work? |
| 17:16.45 | rsimpkins | herlo: I've got TONS of scripts/setups/etc all expecting this one particular user name. |
| 17:16.53 | rsimpkins | It is stuff that has built up over about 7 years. |
| 17:17.08 | herlo | rsimpkins: why aren't you using the uid rather than the name |
| 17:17.19 | herlo | that would solve the problem. |
| 17:17.26 | rsimpkins | herlo: Perfect example of feature bloat. :) |
| 17:17.33 | herlo | huh? |
| 17:17.42 | rsimpkins | herlo: When I started, 7 years ago, I though - "oh, this will be fine for this one feature." |
| 17:17.47 | herlo | oh, right |
| 17:17.54 | rsimpkins | then, "Well, since I use it for this one feature, why not use it here too?" |
| 17:17.58 | rsimpkins | Snowball. |
| 17:18.07 | elg | why not reject the username change? |
| 17:18.58 | rsimpkins | elg: I may very well. That is what I have done for the last year or so. |
| 17:19.10 | rsimpkins | elg: It's getting to be slightly inconvienent is all. |
| 17:19.21 | *** join/#utah harleypig (n=IceChat7@160.7.237.70) |
| 17:20.00 | harleypig | Is there a (relatively) cheap and easy way to setup a repeater for a wireless router? |
| 17:20.09 | rsimpkins | Humm, what if I just dupe the passwd and shadow lines and change the username. That should give me two users with the same UID. |
| 17:20.16 | harleypig | I can't get a decent connection where I have my computer. |
| 17:22.03 | findlay | rsimpkins: you mean you're *still* using /etc/passwd etc. for user accounts? ;) |
| 17:22.29 | harleypig | findlay, what else is there (shadow passwords aside) |
| 17:22.38 | findlay | don't all the cool people use some complicated ldap+whatever solution? |
| 17:22.39 | rsimpkins | findlay: For this one isolated system, yes. |
| 17:23.38 | rsimpkins | findlay: We use CAS at work, but this is a personal box. |
| 17:23.38 | *** join/#utah Zelut_ (n=christer@kuyaedz.fttp.xmission.com) |
| 17:23.38 | findlay | what's CAS? |
| 17:23.42 | rsimpkins | central auth |
| 17:23.48 | rsimpkins | ldap, etc. :) |
| 17:23.52 | findlay | heh |
| 17:24.01 | harleypig | :] |
| 17:24.54 | goozbach | CAS!!! |
| 17:24.59 | goozbach | pineapple |
| 17:25.00 | elg | rsimpkins: she get married? |
| 17:25.13 | elg | rsimpkins: or is he in the witness protection program? |
| 17:25.22 | rsimpkins | It is nice, and I have been growing my personal server count. I'm up to 3 CentOS 4.4, 1 CentOS 5, and 1 Debian (etch). So maybe central auth is looking more enticing now. |
| 17:25.38 | rsimpkins | elg: Huh? |
| 17:25.40 | rsimpkins | I am lost. |
| 17:25.55 | elg | speculating on the reason for a username change is all |
| 17:26.37 | rsimpkins | elg: Complicated, but no - no human drama - just technical ones. |
| 17:26.49 | elg | IME, marriage is the most common reason. we just rejected those though. We'd change the gecos field but not the username |
| 17:27.01 | elg | we never had a witness protection person though |
| 17:27.07 | elg | :) |
| 17:27.15 | harleypig | that you know of |
| 17:27.17 | elg | or if we had, I couldn't tell you about it |
| 17:27.24 | elg | or I'd have to kill harleypig |
| 17:28.01 | harleypig | You'd have to try, anyway. |
| 17:28.01 | elg | ~kill harleypig |
| 17:28.11 | ibot | ACTION shoots a super-inverse graviton gun at harleypig |
| 17:28.11 | harleypig | ~counter-attack elg |
| 17:28.32 | elg | ha, you've been supremely inverse gravitonated |
| 17:28.50 | sjansen | Working for BYU, we had the ability mark student accounts as protected. Witness protection, wives hiding from abusive ex-husbands, paranoid people. |
| 17:29.10 | elg | did you do that for your account? |
| 17:29.14 | elg | to hide from emcnabb? |
| 17:29.19 | sjansen | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:29.42 | sjansen | Weirdest thing I saw, though, was the number of people with a sex other than male or female. |
| 17:29.54 | elg | yeah, those klingons often ignore documentation requirements |
| 17:29.58 | sjansen | I blame COBOL. |
| 17:30.18 | elg | COBOL makes eunuchs? |
| 17:30.34 | goozbach | makes sense... |
| 17:31.00 | findlay | I thought unix was written in C |
| 17:31.56 | ^Migs^ | no, unix is uncreated and eternal |
| 17:41.49 | goozbach | my tomcat muscles have atriphied... |
| 17:41.51 | goozbach | how sad |
| 17:43.17 | findlay | goozbach: what's your favorite registrar? |
| 17:43.39 | Lone_Wanderer | But I'm clearly not Goozbach. |
| 17:43.54 | findlay | ~register Lone_Wanderer |
| 17:44.08 | findlay | ~register Lone_Wanderer.com |
| 17:45.31 | goozbach | findlay: I use domains875.com |
| 17:45.37 | goozbach | cheap and decent |
| 17:48.45 | findlay | I tried to renew my registrar but they use verified by visa |
| 17:48.52 | findlay | I refuse to accept that service |
| 17:59.20 | Lone_Wanderer | How do I turn off colors in my shell? |
| 18:00.33 | Lone_Wanderer | ls is aliased to ls --color=tty, but I can't find the file that does the aliasing. |
| 18:02.23 | findlay | /etc/bashrc perhaps |
| 18:02.35 | findlay | but you'd change it in your ~./bashrc |
| 18:02.57 | Lone_Wanderer | ahh, much better |
| 18:02.59 | findlay | `alias ls=ls` |
| 18:03.00 | Lone_Wanderer | I just switched it back. |
| 18:03.04 | Lone_Wanderer | like that :) |
| 18:03.50 | amcnabb | findlay, it's easier just to do "unalias ls" |
| 18:04.18 | findlay | cleaner too |
| 18:04.42 | amcnabb | If you like colored ls in general, you can leave the alias in there. Then, when there are times that you would like to do uncolored ls, add a backslash: "\ls" |
| 18:05.08 | Lone_Wanderer | I hate it, but I don't mind the kind where it puts a character in front of the file name to designate what kind of file it is. |
| 18:09.03 | elg | alias ls='ls -F' |
| 18:09.55 | goozbach | Lone_Wanderer: you using a dark terminal? |
| 18:10.02 | Lone_Wanderer | yeah |
| 18:10.19 | goozbach | http://blog.friocorte.com/2007/04/19/making-ls-dark-terminal-friendly/ |
| 18:10.22 | Lone_Wanderer | Thanks. |
| 18:10.31 | goozbach | you're probally still using the default ls colors |
| 18:10.44 | Lone_Wanderer | nice, it looks like dataw0lf stole your blog format thing |
| 18:10.49 | Lone_Wanderer | probably yeah |
| 18:11.02 | goozbach | stole my blog format? |
| 18:11.37 | Lone_Wanderer | stderr.ws |
| 18:11.48 | Lone_Wanderer | it looks vaguely similar - mostly with the little face icon thing |
| 18:12.55 | goozbach | I don't see much semblance? |
| 18:13.10 | goozbach | his is a long format |
| 18:13.16 | goozbach | mine is a single entry format |
| 18:13.35 | goozbach | his actually looks good in things other than firefox |
| 18:13.43 | elg | I do the same sort of thing, but I use a dircolors.conf |
| 18:13.44 | elg | http://pastie.caboo.se/57723 |
| 18:13.55 | Lone_Wanderer | beautiful, beautiful |
| 18:13.56 | Lone_Wanderer | I can read it |
| 18:13.59 | goozbach | mine does hokey things like a div placed realitive |
| 18:14.00 | graphyx | what is a dark terminal? |
| 18:14.07 | goozbach | elg: THAT's what I got it from |
| 18:14.14 | Lone_Wanderer | graphyx: dark background, green text |
| 18:14.23 | Lone_Wanderer | to mimic the old monochrome monitors |
| 18:14.23 | goozbach | I knew someone had led me along to doing that |
| 18:14.29 | goozbach | now to give you credit |
| 18:14.46 | elg | heh. I don't remember leading you down the path to the dark side, but ok |
| 18:15.29 | goozbach | "credit where due" |
| 18:15.32 | goozbach | and all that |
| 18:18.28 | graphyx | elg: You see this piece? |
| 18:18.29 | graphyx | http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070430-the-riaas-worst-nightmare-computers-that-understand-music.html |
| 18:19.38 | Lone_Wanderer | What did Neal Gaiman write? |
| 18:20.09 | Lone_Wanderer | I know his name but can't place it. I wiki'd him but none of the books they list look familiar. |
| 18:22.24 | ^Migs^ | he's written a ton of stuff...American Gods, Good Omens, Anansi Boys, Coraline... |
| 18:24.24 | lukfugl | Mirror MAsk |
| 18:24.56 | lukfugl | is a recent thing that actually got some wide exposure |
| 18:25.42 | elg | graphyx: how non sequiter |
| 18:25.50 | elg | ~spell sequitir |
| 18:27.02 | elg | graphyx: guy writes a midi accompanist (not a new thing, actually, but he probably did a particularly good job or tackled some aspect previously untackled - we're not told) |
| 18:27.09 | ^Migs^ | hahaha: http://bamzilla.com/humor/political/welfare.jpg |
| 18:28.16 | elg | graphyx: reporter jumps to the conclusion that computers are going to be doing mashups and reproducing HD audio and putting people out of business |
| 18:28.47 | elg | it's like "AI researcher gets a bot that plays pretty good chess" and extrapolating "in 10 years robots will take over earth in a gruesome WWIII" |
| 18:35.16 | graphyx | yeah |
| 18:38.40 | levi | elg: non sequitur |
| 18:39.40 | levi | Mmm, nice bike ride. |
| 18:49.45 | levi | http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~rwh/plbook/book.pdf |
| 18:50.09 | levi | From the table of contents, that looks like a pretty nice advanced/formal treatment of programming language theory. |
| 18:50.59 | levi | Which means it will probably be of limited interest to people here, but hey, someone might think it's as interesting as I do. :) |
| 18:51.14 | lukfugl | http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070430-supreme-court-ruling-makes-obvious-patents-harder-to-defend.html |
| 18:51.34 | ^Migs^ | iGun: A gun with an mp3 player. |
| 18:51.55 | lukfugl | levi: I'm definitely in the "interested" camp :) |
| 18:54.00 | levi | That reminds me, I still need to finish compiling my computer science self-study links. |
| 19:02.23 | *** join/#utah mrpull-x (i=xmjake@xmission.xmission.com) |
| 19:03.27 | rsimpkins | So... which Utah school has the best CS program? |
| 19:03.54 | graphyx | rsimpkins: Are you trying to start a flamewar? |
| 19:04.09 | rsimpkins | graphyx: Is it close enough that a flamewar could start? |
| 19:04.34 | rsimpkins | Just curious if BUY or the U are stand out leaders or not. |
| 19:04.38 | rsimpkins | BYU |
| 19:04.44 | rsimpkins | Always mix that one up. :) |
| 19:05.29 | graphyx | I wouldn't know, I have only attended the one. |
| 19:05.42 | graphyx | which was BYU |
| 19:06.13 | rsimpkins | If I had to guess, I'd say the University of Utah due to the conributions to the Internet, and computer 3D, etc. |
| 19:06.24 | rsimpkins | But I'm not sure what they have done recently... perhaps it used to be good. |
| 19:10.44 | levi | You talking undergrad program or grad school research stuff? |
| 19:11.28 | rsimpkins | I dunno, more anecdotal perhaps? |
| 19:12.01 | rsimpkins | I'd personally rank them in this order: UofU, BYU, UVSC, Utah State. I'm not sure if SSU or Dixie even have CS programs. |
| 19:12.50 | levi | Well, if you're just going by anecdotes, you could possibly order them in any order. :) |
| 19:13.45 | rsimpkins | I'm sure that BYU has contributed to the CS field in some way. Do you guys know some of the more recent high-level contributions made? |
| 19:14.33 | goozbach | SUU has a CS program |
| 19:14.41 | goozbach | I wouldn't go there for it however |
| 19:14.52 | goozbach | I didn't think it was worth my time |
| 19:16.46 | levi | http://cs.byu.edu/research/topic |
| 19:17.12 | rsimpkins | http://www.cs.utah.edu/research/ |
| 19:17.13 | brac | [U of U School of Computing Research] |
| 19:18.22 | levi | Matthew Flatt at the U is part of the PLT group that uses scheme for research. |
| 19:18.31 | levi | PLT Scheme is good stuff. |
| 19:19.18 | rsimpkins | It looks like BYU CS is more business orriented, and UofU is more research orriented. |
| 19:19.47 | levi | I don't know if that's a fair characterization. |
| 19:20.03 | levi | There are certainly some business-oriented research projects at BYU, though. |
| 19:20.09 | rsimpkins | I'm sure it isn't totally fair. |
| 19:25.01 | elg | it's not even close |
| 19:26.36 | levi | rsimpkins: You can pay U.S.News $15 for access to their 2008 ranking of America's Best Graduate Schools. :P |
| 19:26.39 | elg | as for your question, it depends on what you're interested in researching |
| 19:28.55 | rsimpkins | http://www.cs.utah.edu/people/faculty.shtml |
| 19:28.56 | brac | [U of U School of Computing - Faculty] |
| 19:29.01 | rsimpkins | http://cs.byu.edu/research/faculty |
| 19:29.03 | levi | http://www.greguide.com/comps.html lists UofU at 39, and doesn't list BYU at all. Therefore, the U must be better. ;) |
| 19:29.05 | brac | [GRE Guide - Computer Science Rankings] |
| 19:31.39 | rsimpkins | I wonder how you rate professors. You can look at their publications or something, but that could mean they spend all their time with that and none teaching. |
| 19:31.51 | elg | the U isn't the shining star it used to be, but overall it's probably better than BYU for a graduate program. I have no idea for undergraduate - BYU undergrads going into industry do pretty well, and I think "success in industry" is probably a decent measure for undergrad |
| 19:32.08 | ^Migs^ | no way, Weber is the best |
| 19:32.20 | levi | UVSC4Evar!! |
| 19:32.27 | rsimpkins | lol |
| 19:32.30 | ^Migs^ | Weber pwnznzroz UVSC |
| 19:32.47 | elg | MIT would be hands down better than either, but you'd probably get a better undergrad teaching experience from a smaller school |
| 19:32.54 | rsimpkins | http://weber.edu/CS/faculty_staff.html |
| 19:33.01 | levi | OK, maybe it does. But UVU will crush Weber! |
| 19:33.03 | ^Migs^ | get your teacher degree from Western Governor's: wgu.edu |
| 19:33.20 | elg | the bar might not be as high, and if you're a lazy bum that might mean a lower-quality education |
| 19:33.26 | elg | but these things are not black and white |
| 19:33.33 | levi | Yeah. |
| 19:33.37 | ^Migs^ | nobody cares about the quality of education, just that you have one |
| 19:34.05 | elg | great professors can be forced to teach classes with stupidity |
| 19:34.22 | elg | bec. the dept. decided that class X has to cover Y and Z, and do it with tool Q |
| 19:34.33 | elg | or that they have to use book F |
| 19:34.35 | emcnabb | nice, I was searching around online, and I stumbled upon the "must fix by 2.6 kernel" list... one of the bugs I recognized as one that was only recently fixed in 2.6.21 |
| 19:34.46 | elg | :) |
| 19:35.09 | levi | I feel I'm pretty well-served at UVSC, because the class work load isn't as heavy as at BYU and class sizes are much smaller, so I can interact with my professors easily and spend time that I'd have spent doing annoying work actually reading books and thinking about things. |
| 19:35.33 | levi | But another student might just take the lighter load as an opportunity to slack off, and get a far worse education. |
| 19:35.44 | elg | I think the "best CS program in the state" is the one in your heart. *warm fuzzies* |
| 19:35.50 | elg | in that case, it's probably levi. ;-) |
| 19:36.15 | ^Migs^ | I agree with elg. Deep down, aren't we ALL in the best CS program? Every one of us? |
| 19:36.21 | rsimpkins | lol |
| 19:36.26 | levi | elg: I hope you're not saying that I'm in your heart, because that would be disturbing. ;) |
| 19:36.35 | elg | hey, i'm in a different state |
| 19:36.37 | elg | I'm immune |
| 19:37.03 | emcnabb | ~grouphug |
| 19:37.09 | ibot | ACTION hugs everbody and makes it all better... |
| 19:38.07 | levi | Cool, the Utah PLT group worked on compiling Java to PLT Scheme and writing some Java learning tools for DrScheme. |
| 19:45.06 | Lone_Wanderer | PLT? |
| 19:45.13 | Keighvin | My initials. |
| 19:45.21 | levi | Stands for Programming Language Theory |
| 19:45.26 | Lone_Wanderer | oh cool |
| 19:45.28 | Lone_Wanderer | I want to join that group. |
| 19:46.13 | levi | Well, I would guess that going to the U and talking to Matthew Flatt would be the best route. |
| 19:46.38 | levi | There are a couple of other universities involved. |
| 19:46.51 | Lone_Wanderer | Oh, is it selective? |
| 19:47.03 | levi | It's not a users group, it's a research group. |
| 19:47.07 | Lone_Wanderer | (By which I mean that you can't just go to their web site and sign up for a mailing list.) |
| 19:47.10 | Lone_Wanderer | ahhh |
| 19:47.26 | Lone_Wanderer | So do I have to actually do research? |
| 19:47.38 | Lone_Wanderer | I'd be happy just to read the stuff that they publish. |
| 19:47.52 | elg | http://www.cs.utah.edu/plt/publications/ |
| 19:47.52 | brac | [Utah PLT Publications] |
| 19:48.05 | Lone_Wanderer | To lurk, perchance to contribute - aye, there's the rub. |
| 19:48.31 | Lone_Wanderer | thanks elg |
| 19:48.41 | elg | thank google |
| 19:49.13 | Lone_Wanderer | ~thank google |
| 19:49.13 | ibot | no worries, Lone_Wanderer |
| 19:49.19 | Lone_Wanderer | ~google thank |
| 19:49.39 | levi | http://www.plt-scheme.org/who/ |
| 19:49.40 | brac | [PLT Sites and People] |
| 19:50.21 | elg | brown has a pretty good CS dept |
| 19:50.42 | levi | I'll probably apply there, though I don't know if I have any hope of getting in. |
| 19:50.53 | levi | Shriram Krishnamurthi is awesome. |
| 19:53.58 | Lone_Wanderer | Is that the name of a person? |
| 19:55.25 | elg | an ice cream flavor |
| 19:55.50 | levi | Yes, he's the PLT guy at Brown. |
| 19:56.04 | Lone_Wanderer | cool |
| 19:56.14 | levi | He's also a very animated presenter. Google for 'The Swine Before PERL' |
| 19:56.32 | levi | You can watch his presentation in a video and follow along with the slides, if you find the right page. |
| 19:56.40 | Lone_Wanderer | cool |
| 19:56.43 | elg | levi: maybe you can get involved with PLT somehow, and get an in |
| 19:56.50 | elg | then when you apply he can vouch for you |
| 19:57.22 | levi | elg: I should probably do that. |
| 19:57.37 | elg | IME research groups are willing to take in non-school people (especially collaborative ones like this), if they have the chops |
| 19:58.31 | elg | providence is a funny place |
| 19:58.38 | elg | not a bad place. but definitely a funny place |
| 19:58.45 | levi | Would be kind of odd to go to an ivy league school, though. |
| 19:59.14 | elg | you could use the same technique to get into the U, too |
| 20:00.34 | Lone_Wanderer | levi: you're one of the most qualified people I know vis a vis getting into an ivy league school. |
| 20:01.22 | elg | that's cuz you know him |
| 20:01.25 | levi | I dunno about that. I'd certainly have to have an 'in' to cut it. My past is quite checkered! |
| 20:01.57 | elg | ~checker levi |
| 20:02.15 | Lone_Wanderer | I bet you could find an in. |
| 20:03.54 | elg | wow, mapreduce in erlang is some kind of elegant |
| 20:04.30 | elg | http://media.pragprog.com/titles/jaerlang/code/lib_misc.erl search for pmap |
| 20:05.42 | elg | in particular, gather |
| 20:05.43 | elg | you just spawn off a process for each element of the list, and use a selective receive to gather them back in order |
| 20:05.45 | Lone_Wanderer | I don't understand what that all does, but I am impressed with its brevity. |
| 20:05.45 | levi | Nice. |
| 20:05.45 | Lone_Wanderer | oh that's cool |
| 20:05.55 | elg | map/reduce in MPI is a bit more hairy |
| 20:05.58 | elg | to say the least |
| 20:06.29 | levi | Hah. I imagine it is. |
| 20:06.50 | elg | well, I guess not really - because MPI has a map and reduce sort of thingie, but you've got to say how many pieces to give to how many processes and who the processes are and what kind of reduce you want to use, etc. |
| 20:06.59 | elg | ok, so it is :) |
| 20:07.22 | levi | MPI is made for and by knob-tweakers. |
| 20:07.37 | levi | I need to go get me some lunch. Be back in a while. |
| 20:07.45 | elg | it's even worse if you were to try to implement map/reduce using other MPI primitives instead of using the MPI map/reduce primitives |
| 20:08.00 | elg | where here in erlang you just build it up from scratch in about 15 loc |
| 20:29.54 | graphyx | is there anyway to see what files a particular process tries to access? |
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| 20:34.38 | Tene | graphyx: lsof is helpful. |
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| 20:39.15 | rsimpkins | graphyx: strace is helpful as well. |
| 20:44.35 | goozbach | strace | grep open |
| 20:45.49 | graphyx | would any of those track real time execution? |
| 20:46.59 | graphyx | specifically I want to trace which files are touched when an app is run. |
| 20:47.28 | lukfugl | yeah, strace is real time |
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| 20:48.08 | lukfugl | -lart amcnabb |
| 20:48.51 | sjansen | goozbach: strace 2>&1 | grep open |
| 20:50.52 | graphyx | how do you send both stderr and stdout to the same file? |
| 20:51.11 | levi | That's what the 2>&1 does |
| 20:51.22 | graphyx | ok |
| 20:51.44 | goozbach | well if you want to get fancy send output to one file, err to another, and grep err seperatly for the open statements |
| 20:52.48 | graphyx | I did the 2>&1 (filename) and it didn't appear to work |
| 20:53.04 | graphyx | strace (program) 2>&1 (output filename) |
| 20:53.11 | graphyx | and it didn't put anything in the file. |
| 20:53.16 | levi | You have to pipe it. |
| 20:53.17 | sjansen | 2> (redirect standard error) 2>&1 (redirect stderr to the same place as stdout) |
| 20:53.43 | levi | 2>&1 just merges the output streams; you still have to tell them where to go. |
| 20:53.52 | sjansen | foo > foo.txt 2>&1 (redirect stdout to a file, do the same to stderr) |
| 20:54.11 | sjansen | order matters |
| 20:54.35 | sjansen | foo 2>&1 > foo.txt (different) |
| 20:54.44 | goozbach | command > output.txt 2> err.txt |
| 20:55.13 | graphyx | ok |
| 20:55.15 | graphyx | thanks |
| 21:09.17 | levi | elg: This looks interesting from a C++ interoperability standpoint: http://felix.sourceforge.net/ |
| 21:09.19 | brac | [Felix Language Homepage] |
| 21:11.27 | *** join/#utah nick125_lappy (n=nick@atarack/staff/nick125) |
| 21:16.33 | levi | Looks like the love child of C++ and ML. Strange bedfellows indeed. |
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| 21:38.15 | nick125_lappy | Yay, I got icecast setup! |
| 22:03.42 | levi | Gah, savannah's cvs servers seem to be screwed up. |
| 22:36.00 | levi | Hooray for IRC! The admin was online and able to fix it. |
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| 22:39.45 | jsmith | levi: Amazing... I never knew IRC could be so useful :-p |
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| 22:54.31 | rsimpkins | Okay gurus, I wanna execute a program when I hit <F12> in gnome. Where do I need to look? |
| 23:00.06 | jsmith | rsimpkins: System -> Preferences -> Keyboard Shortcuts |
| 23:00.52 | rsimpkins | jsmith: okay, which action executes an arbitrary program? |
| 23:01.09 | levi | It would be nice if other programs registered themselves to be configured by the Keyboard Shortcuts panel. |
| 23:01.44 | rsimpkins | levi: It would be better if you could create custom actions. :) |
| 23:01.57 | rsimpkins | I'm sure you can, there has got to be a way... just what is it?? |
| 23:02.16 | levi | rsimpkins: Well, the two concerns are orthogonal. |
| 23:04.41 | levi | rsimpkins: What you want to do can be done via Configuration Editor |
| 23:05.00 | rsimpkins | levi: Okay, i'll start poking. Thanks. |
| 23:05.15 | levi | rsimpkins: Go to Apps/metacity/global_keybindings and keybinding_commands |
| 23:05.28 | levi | Specifically the run_command_n bindings. |
| 23:06.04 | rsimpkins | levi: right on, thanks |
| 23:06.28 | rsimpkins | I swear gconf-editor gives me flashbacks of the windows registry. |
| 23:06.33 | levi | Yeah. |
| 23:06.54 | levi | At least gconf-editor stuff is mostly human-understandable. |
| 23:07.31 | levi | The problem of what to do for configuration management is a tricky one. |
| 23:07.54 | levi | The future seems to be registry-like systems rather than ad-hoc systems. |
| 23:08.05 | beandog | whats wrong with the tried and true tested setup of foo=bar .ini files |
| 23:10.31 | nick125_lappy | beandog: Imagine 50,000 .ini files |
| 23:10.45 | beandog | so |
| 23:10.56 | beandog | what does the # have to do with anything |
| 23:11.07 | beandog | I can use common core utils to grep what Im looking for just like anything else |
| 23:11.12 | beandog | instead of limiting the format, and the tools |
| 23:11.57 | beandog | I should disclaim I have no idea how GNOME does it though, but from what I've heard, it's odd. |
| 23:12.16 | beandog | my favorite wm++ |
| 23:12.21 | rsimpkins | levi: Humm, now if it would just work. :) |
| 23:12.24 | levi | beandog: If the configuration files are in a standardized format, having them human-readable is not necessarily bad. |
| 23:13.52 | levi | beandog: However, they are primarily not read by humans, but by the programs they are meant to configure. Having a standardized configuration store/retrieve mechanism is a win all around, though different mechanisms may work better in different situations. |
| 23:14.19 | beandog | well as long as its not a binary format, I think it'd probably be oaky |
| 23:14.20 | beandog | okay |
| 23:21.47 | rsimpkins | levi: got it, thank you. |
| 23:22.09 | levi | rsimpkins: What'd you have to do to make it work? |
| 23:22.28 | rsimpkins | I was doing <F12>, but it is supposed to be F12... oops. :) |
| 23:22.51 | rsimpkins | The script locks all of my terminals with one keystroke now - including the windows ones. |
| 23:23.54 | rsimpkins | Later tonight I'll set up bluetooth proximity detection so when I walk away - everything gets locked. |
| 23:24.32 | rsimpkins | Then, hopefully, I'll forget to lock my terminal less frequently. |
| 23:26.31 | levi | beandog: gconfd seems to be configurable to use different backends; the default is XML. |
| 23:33.33 | nick125_lappy | rsimpkins: That's cool. |
| 23:34.41 | nick125_lappy | I tried to do something like that with pam_usb and xscreensaver (so it would automagically lock my workstation when I remove my USB key, unlock when I plug it back in) but I couldn't get unlocking workign |
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| 23:35.08 | Keighvin | ~lart Jayve^ |
| 23:35.08 | ibot | gives Jayve^ a good seeing to |
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