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| 00:52.25 | sontek | hey, do you guys know of a way to get a tally of how much space all directories are going to be? I'm using du -sh dir1/ dir2/ but that just says them individiually |
| 00:53.11 | Tene | du -shc |
| 00:53.23 | sontek | Tene: thanks =) |
| 00:53.38 | Tene | np |
| 00:53.39 | Tene | :D |
| 00:53.43 | *** join/#utah Sargun (n=xbmodder@atarack/staff/sargun) |
| 01:15.08 | Sargun | Who here works for Red hat? |
| 01:41.08 | *** join/#utah TimRiker (n=timr@rikers.org) |
| 01:41.08 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 01:58.43 | tensai | Sargun: all the cool kids work for Redhat |
| 02:04.45 | Sargun | Are you a cool kid? |
| 02:04.59 | tensai | I think it's pretty apparent that I'm not |
| 02:06.40 | Sargun | Hehe |
| 02:06.53 | Sargun | Do you know where I can find some good pro-Linux propoganda? |
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| 02:26.38 | levi_home | Sargun: microsoft.com :P |
| 02:27.00 | Sargun | haha |
| 02:27.12 | Sargun | levi_home++ |
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| 02:45.53 | nick125_lappy | I'm going to kill someone or something. |
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| 02:56.53 | Sargun | nick125_lappy, Why? |
| 02:58.42 | nick125_lappy | Sargun: My xbox live account is screwed beyond believe |
| 03:00.40 | nick125_lappy | Somehow, they flagged my account as a minor, even though I entered an age beyond 18. So, I created a "parent" account, but, now, for some reason, I can't access the parent account, and, somehow, a block prohibiting me from playing original xbox game on live |
| 03:01.44 | Sargun | lol |
| 03:01.46 | Sargun | Haha |
| 03:02.04 | nick125_lappy | And they won't remove the parent account or change it |
| 03:02.21 | levi_home | But aren't you a minor? |
| 03:10.17 | ScytheBlade1 | levi_home, ssshhhh, details |
| 03:11.18 | nick125_lappy | That's not the point. |
| 03:13.30 | ScytheBlade1 | You win a new xbox live account? |
| 03:14.55 | levi_home | nick125_lappy: So, you're mad 'cause you lied and they caught you? ;) |
| 03:16.17 | nick125_lappy | ScytheBlade1: That's what I'm doing |
| 03:16.19 | nick125_lappy | levi_home: |
| 03:16.37 | nick125_lappy | Why should they care? I pay them. |
| 03:16.39 | ScytheBlade1 | You get to call their 1-800 number then |
| 03:16.43 | ScytheBlade1 | nick125_lappy, I dunno, laws? |
| 03:16.47 | nick125_lappy | ScytheBlade1: I did that |
| 03:16.55 | nick125_lappy | They told me to contact passport.net |
| 03:16.56 | ScytheBlade1 | Again :) |
| 03:16.59 | ScytheBlade1 | lol |
| 03:17.00 | ScytheBlade1 | Sucker |
| 03:17.15 | nick125_lappy | ScytheBlade1: Something like that, but, I'm sure it didn't start with an S |
| 03:22.24 | elg | -lart tensai |
| 03:22.55 | levi_home | Good evening, elg. |
| 03:25.04 | nick125_lappy | This really makes me want to buy a Xbox Elite.... |
| 03:25.27 | elg | hidyho |
| 03:25.53 | levi_home | elg: You sound cheerful. Getting a refund? |
| 03:25.59 | elg | no |
| 03:26.09 | elg | i only had $16 withheld, after all |
| 03:26.19 | levi_home | Ahh. :) |
| 03:26.33 | levi_home | It would be hard to get a refund on that. |
| 03:27.17 | elg | you could do it |
| 03:27.20 | tensai | -lart elg |
| 03:27.22 | elg | you could even get a sizeable one |
| 03:27.29 | elg | with various credits and enough kids |
| 03:27.37 | levi_home | Ahh, well, I suppose so. |
| 03:27.56 | levi_home | I, being rather non-frugal, pay someone to do my taxes. |
| 03:29.42 | elg | well, I take that back. happy day |
| 03:29.57 | elg | looks like I'm getting a $150 refund |
| 03:30.03 | levi_home | Nice. |
| 03:30.08 | elg | because I can deduct internet |
| 03:30.17 | elg | it's nice having an accountant home teacher :) |
| 03:30.38 | elg | those deductions from self-employment make a big difference |
| 03:30.39 | levi_home | That would be nice. |
| 03:31.18 | elg | counting gsoc as "other income" instead of self employment saved me $500 already. deducting that internet expense lowered my tax owed enough to bring it below zero after credits |
| 03:31.25 | levi_home | I read some article a while back about rampant tax cheating among small business owners. Chances of getting away with it are pretty darn high. |
| 03:31.32 | elg | state tax is going to sap most of that though |
| 03:31.50 | elg | yeah, small businesses are more prone to audit for that reason |
| 03:32.19 | elg | i'm fairly conservative in what I count, but aggressive in what I'm confident I can count :) |
| 03:32.43 | elg | i'm a small fish anyway. wouldn't be worth the money they pay the auditor for lunch |
| 03:32.44 | levi_home | How do you figure out what's "other income" and what's self-employment? |
| 03:33.11 | elg | he says what they do is if it's a one-time thing that doesn't continue and you don't intend to see repeating, then you can put it as other income |
| 03:33.20 | elg | if it shows up the next year, then they do self employment |
| 03:33.35 | levi_home | Interesting. |
| 03:33.43 | elg | so if I did gsoc again this year I would be advised to do self employment tax on it |
| 03:34.02 | elg | naturally, you can't just bust your business up into one-shot chunks :) |
| 03:34.27 | levi_home | My wife did some long-term babysitting, so we'll probably count that as 'other income' since it's not going to be a recurring thing. |
| 03:34.35 | elg | yup |
| 03:34.55 | levi_home | Good to know. :) |
| 03:35.49 | tensai | or, my wife did some long-term babysitting so we spent the money and never told the feds :) |
| 03:36.12 | elg | that too, but now it's on irc. emcnabb heard you |
| 03:36.13 | elg | :) |
| 03:36.16 | elg | -lart emcnabb |
| 03:36.32 | tensai | this is of course hypothetical |
| 03:37.06 | tensai | I've always loved use tax |
| 03:37.23 | Tene | "use tax"? |
| 03:37.44 | elg | Tene: sales tax your state would like to extract from your internet-shopping finger |
| 03:37.44 | tensai | sales tax for anything you buy out of state and thus don't pay state sales tax on |
| 03:38.07 | tensai | it's been around since before the intarweb though |
| 03:38.07 | Tene | but I need that finger! |
| 03:38.12 | Tene | i use it for internet shopping! |
| 03:39.30 | Sargun | services can't have sales tax put on them |
| 03:39.49 | tensai | elg: I really enjoyed the style of your brick oven post |
| 03:39.57 | elg | thanks :) |
| 03:39.59 | tensai | Sargun: tell that to states which tax services |
| 03:40.12 | tensai | idaho has been considering it apparently |
| 03:40.18 | elg | nm does |
| 03:40.22 | elg | "gross receipts" |
| 03:40.45 | elg | all my clients are charged 7% more because of it, though I don't usually tell them that. |
| 03:41.38 | tensai | elg: http://hans.fugal.net/blog, "Application error (Rails)" |
| 03:41.43 | levi_home | I've often wondered why stores don't factor sales tax into the price instead of adding it at the register. I guess it makes things look cheaper than they are. |
| 03:42.17 | tensai | levi_home: they do that in Japan. everything has tax included |
| 03:43.43 | tensai | this dictionary for example was 2,000円, but the base price was 1,942円 |
| 03:44.34 | Sargun | tensai, Cool. |
| 03:55.14 | nick125_lappy | levi_home: I've always wondered that too |
| 03:57.21 | tensai | elg: my favorite was "We’re not holding up your Aunt’s wig collection, it just has to hold itself up." |
| 04:05.18 | elg | tensai: it's back up. I haven't had time to figure out why it keeps going awol since I upgraded |
| 04:05.21 | elg | I suspect mongrel |
| 04:05.36 | elg | so I have a cron job to restart it every day, though I do it by hand also if I notice it's down |
| 04:06.07 | elg | tensai: does your aunt have a wig collection too? |
| 04:06.55 | elg | for the peanut gallery, tensai is talking about http://hans.fugal.net/brick/ |
| 04:06.56 | tensai | elg: */5 * * * * wget -qO - http://hans.fugal.net/blog |grep 'Application Error (Rails)' && /etc/init.d/whatever restart |
| 04:06.56 | brac | [Brick Ovens for the Cheapskate] |
| 04:06.57 | brac | [The Fugue] |
| 04:07.24 | elg | tensai: there's a thought |
| 04:07.48 | tensai | elg: heavily inspired by all my experiences with Windows |
| 04:07.58 | Tene | elg: just remember to never use the string "Application Error (Rails)" in a blog post |
| 04:08.24 | elg | mmm, good point |
| 04:08.40 | Tene | might want to use a negative grep instead |
| 04:08.41 | elg | neg grep would be good |
| 04:08.46 | tensai | wonder if you could get the headers instead. I assume it probably returns a 5xx error. |
| 04:08.53 | elg | or maybe the return code |
| 04:09.01 | elg | could probably do it with curl |
| 04:09.08 | elg | i'll remember that when it breaks ;-) |
| 04:10.40 | levi_home | Arches are indeed awesome. |
| 04:10.40 | Tene | lwp ships a HEAD script |
| 04:10.40 | tensai | levi_home: Golden Arches(tm)? |
| 04:10.40 | Tene | libwwwperl |
| 04:10.40 | tensai | wget -S |
| 04:10.40 | tensai | HEAD would work too |
| 04:10.49 | levi_home | elg: Also, s/tought/taught/ in your paragraph about laying concrete. |
| 04:11.56 | Tene | Has anyone else here ever visited the openclue tracker in IE? |
| 04:12.08 | elg | thanks |
| 04:12.13 | elg | hmmmm. this isn't the final version |
| 04:12.20 | elg | I had a link to vestal's page |
| 04:12.43 | tensai | radioactive hamsters did it |
| 04:14.29 | elg | no doubt |
| 04:16.55 | tensai | I can't believe my mp3 player died right before I have to leave on a long trip |
| 04:18.26 | elg | sad |
| 04:19.12 | tensai | I might understand if I had mistreated it or something, but it just up and croaked |
| 04:19.18 | Tene | tensai: work on your humming skills. |
| 04:19.32 | levi_home | A friend of mine had a radioactivehamster domain name for a while. It has apparently expired. |
| 04:19.52 | levi_home | What brand/model of mp3 player was it? |
| 04:20.38 | tensai | creative muvo tx fm, 256mb |
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| 04:23.02 | levi_home | Hmm, that's too bad. |
| 04:23.27 | elg | mine's been acting up a bit |
| 04:24.01 | elg | there's a loose something and if I do something just wrong (I'm not sure what) it turns off |
| 04:24.05 | elg | without saving state |
| 04:24.14 | elg | probably a loose connection |
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| 04:27.46 | Sargun | elg, The creatives have had that problem before |
| 04:27.56 | Sargun | where the headphone jacks |
| 04:28.00 | Sargun | solder points |
| 04:28.00 | Sargun | die |
| 04:28.35 | levi_home | nick125_lappy: Watch out, you might end up learning something. |
| 04:29.01 | nick125_lappy | levi_home: I know :p |
| 04:29.55 | levi_home | My old iPod died of an old battery after several years. I could revive it if I wanted to buy a new one and go through the trouble of cracking the thing open. |
| 04:30.22 | levi_home | It's a 1st gen iPod. Looks rather antique these days. |
| 04:30.42 | nick125_lappy | levi_home: If you are lucky, you might be able to find an ipod battery for $10-$15 on amazon (or somewhere, I can't remember where I saw one..) |
| 04:31.18 | levi_home | Hmm. Might be worth it. |
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| 04:32.03 | nick125_lappy | It's not too hard to crack them open either, I've heard you can do it with a filed down putty knife, or some battery kits come with a plastic tool |
| 04:33.17 | levi_home | Wow, this place sells them for $5. |
| 04:33.36 | Tene | levi_home: link? |
| 04:33.47 | levi_home | http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Newer%20Technology/BIPOD1800M12/ |
| 04:35.09 | nick125_lappy | I think Apple charges around $80 to replace a 3/4/5/5.5G battery |
| 04:35.29 | levi_home | Wow, a total of ~$10 after shipping charges to revive my iPod. |
| 04:36.18 | nick125_lappy | That's not bad |
| 04:37.04 | levi_home | Go to the site and look it up. |
| 04:37.22 | nick125_lappy | Only about $20-$25 |
| 04:37.24 | nick125_lappy | Not bad |
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| 04:38.29 | tensai | well, off to bed. long drive tomorrow. |
| 04:38.48 | nick125_lappy | tensai: Night |
| 04:39.09 | tensai | what, you're not going to tuck me in and read me a story? |
| 04:39.27 | nick125_lappy | What story would you like me to read? |
| 04:39.56 | tensai | the one about the cute little penguin who beat up the big bad monopolistic wolf |
| 04:40.12 | nick125_lappy | Sure |
| 04:40.27 | nick125_lappy | cat story > /dev/speech |
| 04:40.30 | nick125_lappy | Tada |
| 04:40.57 | tensai | oh, you're so sweet |
| 04:42.49 | Tene | ln -sf /dev/mem /dev/speech |
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| 06:10.33 | bonez39 | nick125, good morning...... |
| 06:11.29 | bonez39 | I have an older linux box at home...I recently ran apt-get and it seemed like 500 packages upgraded....I ran it through...rebooted and first had a ring buffer allocation failure, fixed by boosting the video ram in xorg conf... |
| 06:11.59 | bonez39 | now, I boot and it tells me, failing to load gdm gui..that my mouse has failed....is it likely it is my mouse, or something weird with the system instead? |
| 06:48.42 | nick125_lappy | bonez39: What do you mean by "mouse has failed"? |
| 06:48.49 | nick125_lappy | Is that the error? |
| 07:15.50 | bonez39 | yeah, that's the error |
| 07:28.11 | Sargun | bonez39, ! |
| 07:28.37 | Sargun | are you alive? |
| 07:29.13 | bonez39 | yeah, I am alive.... |
| 07:29.22 | bonez39 | just chattin... |
| 07:29.26 | bonez39 | elsewhere... |
| 07:29.41 | bonez39 | I cant' ssh else I'd do so and get the exact error message and paste here |
| 07:54.33 | Sargun | oh |
| 07:54.37 | Sargun | you wanted a doom replacement |
| 07:54.42 | Sargun | thats free |
| 08:05.54 | bonez39 | yeah....that too |
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| 13:15.35 | *** join/#utah ^Migs^ (n=migs@205.122.50.69) |
| 13:20.14 | ^Migs^ | http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6559373.stm Japan's leading toilet manufacturer Toto is offering free repairs to 180,000 toilets after some of them caught fire. |
| 13:20.16 | brac | [BBC NEWS | Business | Free repairs to flammable toilets] |
| 13:24.48 | ^Migs^ | what's a good FOSS video editing tool, something that could convert MOV to AVI? |
| 13:42.19 | sontek | ^Migs^: ffmpeg can do your converting theres cinelerra and diva |
| 13:42.28 | sontek | for editing |
| 13:43.39 | nick125_lappy | or kino |
| 13:43.46 | nick125_lappy | or mencoder (ro converting) |
| 13:49.14 | ^Migs^ | my 4 year-old daughter rode a 2-wheel bike for the first time over the weekend. It only took her 2 days to master it. |
| 13:49.29 | ^Migs^ | thanks for the suggestions |
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| 14:07.28 | goozbach | ~say invoke goozbach |
| 14:07.36 | ibot | invoke goozbach |
| 14:07.46 | goozbach | buhahaha |
| 14:07.47 | redbeard2 | ~say -lart goozbach |
| 14:07.49 | ibot | -lart goozbach |
| 14:08.49 | goozbach | http://xkcd.com/c249.html |
| 14:08.49 | brac | [xkcd - A webcomic of romance, sarcasm, math, and language - By Randall Munroe] |
| 14:11.21 | redbeard2 | goozbach: makes me want to buy a chess set. amazing! not many things make me want to do that. |
| 14:14.40 | *** join/#utah wps (n=wps@67.108.236.230.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 14:19.16 | goozbach | I immediately started thinking logistics |
| 14:19.31 | goozbach | I think you'd need a strap on the bottom, to wrap around your leg |
| 14:19.48 | goozbach | to keep it from flying off |
| 14:20.13 | goozbach | yhsy epi;f nr [tryyu vpp; |
| 14:20.37 | goozbach | wow! I just RightShift1 encoded that last line |
| 14:21.11 | goozbach | s/1/1(tm)/ |
| 14:21.30 | goozbach | what I meant to say was: that would be cool |
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| 14:26.07 | Keighvin | ~lart Jayce^ |
| 14:26.07 | ibot | farts in Jayce^'s general direction |
| 14:26.41 | redbeard2 | ~fart Keighvin |
| 14:26.45 | ibot | ACTION farts in Keighvin's general direction |
| 14:26.57 | Keighvin | Wait, I thought that mean I was supposed to fart. |
| 14:27.07 | Keighvin | Too late now. |
| 14:27.12 | redbeard2 | you can fart at ibot too if you want |
| 14:34.13 | ^Migs^ | hahaha: http://www.theonion.com/content/news/majority_of_parents_abuse_children |
| 14:35.43 | Keighvin | Ah, the Onion. |
| 14:38.19 | ^Migs^ | "To hear the sadness in these kids' voices when they talk about how they are scared—literally scared—to bring home poor report cards, is heartbreaking," said Dr. Deirdre Fulton, child psychologist and director of the Nationwide Coalition to End Child Abuse, who co-authored the study. "Some of the children we interviewed even wished they were dead so their parents would feel guilty at their funerals." |
| 14:44.37 | graphyx | Poor Kermit |
| 14:44.39 | graphyx | http://9rules.com/humor/notes/3192/ |
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| 14:55.02 | elg | -seen jsmith |
| 14:55.02 | brac | jsmith was last seen 1 days, 1 hours, 26 minutes and 33 seconds ago, quitting IRC () |
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| 14:56.26 | elg | any other EE types here? |
| 14:56.29 | Keighvin | ~lart neybar |
| 14:56.29 | ibot | pulls out his louisville slugger and uses neybar's head to break the homerun record |
| 14:56.52 | elg | I'm preparing two lectures for a class: C programming for engineers |
| 14:57.11 | elg | supposed to impart some CS wisdom to the EE |
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| 15:09.09 | ^Migs^ | what's a vault toilet? |
| 15:09.29 | ^Migs^ | what are engineers going to do with C? |
| 15:11.50 | goozbach | build pci buses |
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| 15:22.02 | *** part/#utah Gochen (n=Gochen@61.17.193.210) |
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| 15:28.31 | findlay | hello |
| 15:28.48 | *** join/#utah TimRiker (n=timr@216.49.181.128) |
| 15:28.48 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 15:37.18 | goozbach | my watermellon can consume an entire dead cat |
| 15:38.52 | levi | C and Fortran are the languages engineers are most likely to know. |
| 15:39.33 | levi | EEs find C to be very handy, since they can use it to program their little microcontrollers. |
| 15:39.51 | lukfugl | re: topic -- don't pick on people that know it should have an accent, but can't type the accent :( |
| 15:40.24 | dataw0lf | heh |
| 15:40.30 | dataw0lf | who said 'Viola!' ? |
| 15:40.39 | levi | lukfugl: How about people who transpose the i and o? |
| 15:40.51 | lukfugl | levi: ah, I didn't notice that |
| 15:41.03 | levi | lukfugl: That's the kicker. |
| 15:42.55 | levi | I played the viola in elementary school for a couple of years after my parents wouldn't let me play the cello. In retrospect, I probably would have had a heck of a time carrying the cello home on my bike. |
| 15:43.38 | levi | My wife also played the viola, although much more recently and far more proficiently than I ever did, and she still has hers. |
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| 15:45.09 | findlay | levi: The Yoyo Ma that would have been. |
| 15:45.12 | findlay | hehe |
| 15:46.18 | levi | Nah, the cello wouldn't have lasted either. I moved, and the school I moved to didn't have an orchestra. |
| 15:47.15 | ^Migs^ | my wife plays the flute. I taught myself the recorder back in high school for some school project but I never kept up with it |
| 15:47.52 | dataw0lf | I play the bass because it's manly. |
| 15:48.09 | levi | I played the clarinet later on in jr high and a couple of years of high school. |
| 15:48.51 | levi | I also played saxophone one summer during a high school jazz band summer program. |
| 15:49.06 | levi | I was never very good at any of them. |
| 15:49.45 | dataw0lf | I played the alto sax for a little while |
| 15:49.47 | levi | I still have the clarinet, though. |
| 15:49.58 | dataw0lf | learning a woodwind can help immensely in guitar playing. |
| 15:50.44 | levi | The sax belonged to my grandfather, I think. My younger brother took band class and used it there, but he was too embarrassed that it didn't look like the cheap shiny brass ones all the other kids had, even though it was way cooler. |
| 15:51.00 | dataw0lf | levi: tenor? |
| 15:51.28 | levi | Yup. |
| 15:51.48 | dataw0lf | word. |
| 15:52.36 | levi | Actually, I don't remember whether it was alto or tenor. |
| 15:53.32 | dataw0lf | you play it the same, really. the alto and tenor are pretty similar, except for when you get down to reed control and very low or very high notes. |
| 15:53.56 | elg | lukfugl: you can type voila without the accent and it's ok |
| 15:54.08 | elg | viola is wrong though even if you can't type the accent :) |
| 15:54.13 | levi | I only played it for a summer, so I didn't really learn any of the finer points. |
| 15:54.39 | dataw0lf | I'm just wondering who used 'viola' |
| 15:54.58 | elg | dataw0lf: I don't remember, but it was the 3rd person in 2 days |
| 15:55.05 | elg | not all here I don't think, but that I saw personally |
| 15:55.08 | dataw0lf | wow, nice. |
| 15:55.58 | elg | still, viola is an improvement over wala I suppose |
| 15:56.10 | levi | Ow. |
| 15:56.10 | elg | in some sense |
| 15:56.50 | dataw0lf | .... 'wala' ? |
| 15:56.54 | dataw0lf | man |
| 15:57.03 | dataw0lf | I wouldn't even know what they meant by that. |
| 15:57.23 | elg | a lot of people have only heard it, never seen it. that's what it sounds like |
| 15:57.30 | elg | that's what I thought it was when I was a kid |
| 15:57.51 | elg | and I saw this voila stuff (I thought it was pronounced voy-la) |
| 15:58.05 | elg | and didn't make the connection for an embarrasingly long time |
| 15:58.36 | dataw0lf | huh. |
| 15:58.51 | *** join/#utah tiwula (n=lane@195.sub-166-161-154.myvzw.com) |
| 15:59.07 | dataw0lf | I can't recall ever mistaking 'wala' for 'voila'. But my weakness lies in pronunciations. |
| 15:59.26 | dataw0lf | I still pronounce Yosemite as 'YOZE-MIGHT' occasionally. |
| 15:59.38 | levi | Heh. |
| 16:00.09 | levi | I pronounced Worchestershire sauce how it looks for a long time. |
| 16:00.25 | dataw0lf | I think it stems from the fact that I had a terrible stutter when I was a kid, so most of my knowledge of grammar and English come from reading, rather than conversation. |
| 16:00.35 | elg | there's a worcester, mass. also pronounced wooster |
| 16:01.09 | lukfugl | I just call it "rooster juice" and avoid the whole correctness of pronunciation issue altogether |
| 16:01.22 | *** join/#utah Lone_Wanderer (n=chatzill@cg.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 16:01.56 | levi | Clearly I can't spell worcestershire, either. |
| 16:01.56 | elg | lukfugl: you should call it rooster shire sauce |
| 16:01.56 | Lone_Wanderer | mmmm, sweet icy-hot. |
| 16:01.56 | Lone_Wanderer | woostershire I believe is how it's pronounced |
| 16:01.58 | Lone_Wanderer | at least, according to some guy named Mike who's from New York. |
| 16:02.10 | levi | lukfugl: Around here, Rooster refers to the spicy asian pepper sauce. |
| 16:02.15 | Lone_Wanderer | and the "shire" is pronounced "sure". |
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| 16:02.40 | elg | Lone_Wanderer: yeah, like "linux" is pronounced "lih-nux" |
| 16:02.59 | elg | sh-eye-r is just as correct as sure |
| 16:03.07 | Lone_Wanderer | Although in fairness to Mike, he *was* a fairly senior member of the language forum I met him on. |
| 16:03.22 | elg | the "correct" would be however the brits say the shire part in yorkshire, for example |
| 16:03.32 | dataw0lf | I pronounce 'suite' as 'suit' sometimes, too. |
| 16:03.47 | Lone_Wanderer | The Brits I've met pronounce it "sure". |
| 16:03.49 | lukfugl | elg: pretty sure it's "sure" for them |
| 16:03.54 | elg | if you listen, you see they're saying shire with a long i, but because of their accent it's sounds like "sure" to us |
| 16:04.24 | elg | or if not a long i then at least a short i, like ih instead of urr |
| 16:04.42 | lukfugl | I can believe the short i |
| 16:04.48 | elg | anyway, we americans, whether shire or sure, get about as close as we get to saying linus torvalds correctly |
| 16:04.54 | levi | So, all together, it's 'wu-steh-shir' |
| 16:04.58 | lukfugl | I'm having a hard time making the long i into "urr" |
| 16:05.22 | elg | yeah short i is a better approximation |
| 16:05.32 | Lone_Wanderer | That's what I said. Woostershire. |
| 16:05.56 | levi | Lone_Wanderer: You've got an 'er' in there. I'm sure there's no r sound. |
| 16:06.03 | levi | Until the end. |
| 16:06.11 | levi | And that's probably dropped, too. |
| 16:06.19 | Lone_Wanderer | Well, when you're pronouncing it you leave the "r" out. |
| 16:06.26 | elg | is it there and dropped, or not there at all? |
| 16:06.35 | dataw0lf | I read this recent New Yorker about this tribe in the Amazon that has no numbering system, names for colors, or ability perform recursive speech in their language (or even in their culture) |
| 16:06.43 | levi | So, why spell it funny if you're not going to spell it how it's spelled or how it's pronounced? |
| 16:06.46 | dataw0lf | s/ability to/ability/ |
| 16:06.58 | lukfugl | recursive speech? |
| 16:07.10 | levi | self-referential, perhaps? |
| 16:07.25 | Lone_Wanderer | I read an article about a tribe with similar language restrictions, only they were in Africa. |
| 16:07.29 | dataw0lf | lukfugl: yea, it's considered by many to be what separates our communication from other lesser creatures. |
| 16:07.33 | dataw0lf | recursive speech: |
| 16:07.46 | dataw0lf | The dog is brown. The dog is walking down the street. Turns into: |
| 16:07.51 | dataw0lf | The brown dog is walking down the street. |
| 16:07.53 | lukfugl | ah |
| 16:08.07 | dataw0lf | with recursive speech it's possible to form a infinite sentence with a finite amount of words |
| 16:08.20 | Lone_Wanderer | How? |
| 16:08.23 | dataw0lf | The brown dog that was eating the bug that had flown from the tree which was located in the park which... |
| 16:08.59 | Lone_Wanderer | I don't see how that's infinite. |
| 16:09.06 | findlay | or finite :) |
| 16:09.17 | dataw0lf | anyways, there's the Chomsky (and dominant) school of thought that there's a 'universal language organ' and recursive speech is extremely important on building it. |
| 16:09.39 | Lone_Wanderer | Wasn't Chomsky's theory that no human language lacks recursive speech? |
| 16:09.51 | dataw0lf | but this article and this guy that's been studying this tribe's language refutes that, saying that language is more constructed on the culture rather than a biological function of the brain. |
| 16:09.53 | dataw0lf | Lone_Wanderer: Yes. |
| 16:09.54 | Lone_Wanderer | And so finding this tribe was important to linguists because it proved his theory wrong? |
| 16:10.09 | Lone_Wanderer | Where's the article? I think we read the same article, but I thought they were in Africa. |
| 16:10.09 | dataw0lf | there are some arguments about whether it proves his theory wrong. |
| 16:10.16 | findlay | why do these famous people always stop and setup a thinking school when they have something big? I've never figured it out |
| 16:10.21 | dataw0lf | newest edition of the New Yorker |
| 16:10.43 | Lone_Wanderer | The one I read was older than that. It was sometime last year I think. |
| 16:11.03 | Lone_Wanderer | findlay: tradition. it started with Socrates. |
| 16:11.11 | dataw0lf | Lone_Wanderer: there's been a war between these two linguist school of thoughts, apparently. That may have been part of it. |
| 16:11.55 | Lone_Wanderer | http://www.jcrows.com/withoutnumbers.html - this is the earlier article I read. |
| 16:12.04 | lukfugl | *ahem* "schools of thought" |
| 16:12.54 | findlay | so Socrates started the school of soccer |
| 16:12.59 | findlay | that make ssense |
| 16:13.06 | findlay | s/ ss/s s/ |
| 16:13.31 | dataw0lf | http://en.pediax.org/Pirah%C3%A3_language there's the tribe I was talking about, LW |
| 16:13.39 | levi | The blog 'Language Log' is a group blog run by a bunch of linguists, and often covers interesting linguistic tidbits like dissecting the media coverage of the Piraha tribe. |
| 16:14.28 | dataw0lf | they tried to teach this tribe to count to ten |
| 16:14.32 | *** part/#utah jsmith-teaching (n=jsmith@ppp-71-141-74-14.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) |
| 16:14.34 | *** join/#utah Geekzilla (n=wanka@69.27.22.5) |
| 16:14.38 | dataw0lf | 8 months later, none of them had learned how to |
| 16:14.51 | Geekzilla | Howdy fellow Utards |
| 16:15.01 | findlay | Geekzilla: can you count to 10? |
| 16:15.11 | Geekzilla | 00, 01, 10 |
| 16:15.20 | findlay | awesome! You pass |
| 16:15.33 | levi | http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/ |
| 16:15.35 | brac | [Language Log] |
| 16:15.53 | elg | my son has no coherent language at all. just bits and pieces |
| 16:15.56 | elg | he can count to 10 |
| 16:16.12 | elg | are you saying they forfeited the ability to learn to count to 10 because of the language they have? |
| 16:16.13 | Geekzilla | Pffft. The binary test is old-hat. I prefer asking someone to concisely approximate "All your base are belong to us" using Bash commands |
| 16:16.13 | Geekzilla | :PP |
| 16:16.30 | findlay | heh |
| 16:16.55 | findlay | just checking whether you conform to Chomsky or not |
| 16:17.09 | dataw0lf | elg: if it's unneeded in the culture, why would they develop the ability? |
| 16:17.18 | findlay | because that' s what all the cool people in here are talking about |
| 16:17.33 | dataw0lf | this is pretty strange, because I never thought of simple abstract mathematical concepts as so tied to a language |
| 16:18.11 | findlay | dataw0lf: but certainly language cannot preclude you from learning concepts beyond its bounds |
| 16:18.15 | dataw0lf | do mormon missionaries work with the SIL? |
| 16:18.27 | lukfugl | SIL? |
| 16:18.43 | dataw0lf | findlay: that seems to be the case, though. If they can't learn how to count to ten in 8 months... |
| 16:19.00 | findlay | maybe they don't care about 10 :) |
| 16:19.40 | levi | I believe it's the Sapir-Worf hypothesis that posits that you can't think about concepts that can't be represented in your language, or something to that effect. |
| 16:19.43 | dataw0lf | lukfugl: Summer Institute of Linguistics, they're a christian movement where the missionaries simply translate the Bible to the native language and put faith that the translation and reading of the bible itself will convert people. |
| 16:19.50 | levi | And it's a very controversial hypothesis indeed. |
| 16:20.09 | Geekzilla | dataw0lf - highly unlikely |
| 16:20.12 | dataw0lf | levi: yea. |
| 16:20.24 | lukfugl | dataw0lf: ah. not to my knowledge, no |
| 16:20.24 | Geekzilla | Most Protestant Christians don't play well with Mormons |
| 16:20.28 | findlay | levi: so then when you learn a new language you are privy to all its new concepts? |
| 16:20.31 | Geekzilla | It's sort of like mixing vinegar and baking soda. |
| 16:20.40 | dataw0lf | Geekzilla: that's sad. |
| 16:20.56 | findlay | vinegar and baking soda ... |
| 16:21.09 | Geekzilla | dataw0lf - I think you can only call someone a "cult" so many times before they start to get annoyed |
| 16:21.18 | levi | dataw0lf: A lot of protestant groups explicitly forbid Mormons from joining. |
| 16:21.27 | Geekzilla | And then people wonder why I despise religion. |
| 16:21.28 | dataw0lf | that's a shame. |
| 16:21.46 | dataw0lf | Geekzilla: really? |
| 16:21.59 | dataw0lf | I'm fascinated with it. |
| 16:22.02 | Geekzilla | I am fascinated by Abrahamic religion. |
| 16:22.05 | Geekzilla | I just dislike it. |
| 16:22.13 | Geekzilla | It's sort of like being a psychologist |
| 16:22.26 | levi | Some of them don't, of course, and the LDS church does cooperate with some protestant organizations in some areas, AFAIK. |
| 16:22.34 | Geekzilla | You devote yourself to studying various disorders, hysterias, dysfunctions etc. |
| 16:22.38 | dataw0lf | levi: that's good. |
| 16:22.44 | Geekzilla | But you don't suffer from any of them. |
| 16:22.52 | dataw0lf | the SIL looks like it does some good stuff over the world. |
| 16:23.05 | dataw0lf | in relation to linguistics study, that is. |
| 16:23.13 | Geekzilla | The SIL definitely does some good work |
| 16:23.52 | Geekzilla | So does the Mormon church, and really most Christian sects. It's just all the senseless asshattery over whether you believe in the "right" Jesus that gets in the way |
| 16:23.53 | dataw0lf | and most of the Mormon missionaries I've met seem to have an incredibly good grasp of languages, so I thought it might be a good fit. |
| 16:24.04 | Lone_Wanderer | What's controversial about the Sapir-Worf hypothesis? |
| 16:24.22 | dataw0lf | Lone_Wanderer: I think the Chomsky school of thought is in direct conflict with it |
| 16:24.28 | dataw0lf | Sapir-Worf was early 20th century |
| 16:24.32 | dataw0lf | then went into disuse |
| 16:24.37 | dataw0lf | but I think it's started to come back. |
| 16:24.49 | Lone_Wanderer | It makes sense to me. |
| 16:24.56 | dataw0lf | yea, me too. |
| 16:25.00 | dataw0lf | that's what this article was about, basically. |
| 16:25.01 | findlay | those silly thinking schools |
| 16:25.13 | dataw0lf | I want to be a fellow at a school |
| 16:25.16 | dataw0lf | so I can just... think. |
| 16:25.21 | levi | Sorry, it's Sapir-Whorf |
| 16:25.24 | Lone_Wanderer | That's be awesome. |
| 16:25.32 | Lone_Wanderer | "And what's your job?" "Oh, I think." |
| 16:25.58 | Geekzilla | Go get a job at Apple. Then you can tell people you think different for a living. |
| 16:26.13 | Lone_Wanderer | I refuse to drink that kool-aid. |
| 16:26.16 | dataw0lf | dataw0lf working at Apple. That's a amusing thought. |
| 16:26.19 | dataw0lf | s/a/an/ |
| 16:26.30 | dataw0lf | heh |
| 16:26.46 | levi | http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/001373.html |
| 16:26.52 | ^Migs^ | check out this missile over Utah: http://tinyurl.com/323tv4 |
| 16:26.57 | Geekzilla | regex-- |
| 16:26.58 | Lone_Wanderer | It's an airplane. |
| 16:27.13 | ^Migs^ | doesn't look like an airplane |
| 16:27.27 | ^Migs^ | those would be pretty tiny wings |
| 16:27.28 | Geekzilla | I need to find out what that prog my friends put together was called - nice little java-based regex parser with an Intellisense clone |
| 16:27.30 | dataw0lf | looks like a PAC-3 |
| 16:27.37 | Geekzilla | So you can write your regexes in natural language |
| 16:27.43 | Lone_Wanderer | No, the rest of the wings are almost the same color as the ground. |
| 16:27.47 | Lone_Wanderer | Look closely. |
| 16:27.54 | Lone_Wanderer | Same with the tail. |
| 16:28.23 | levi | Ahh, yeah, two-tone wings. |
| 16:28.34 | dataw0lf | dang LW |
| 16:28.40 | dataw0lf | you got a retinal implant or something |
| 16:28.58 | Geekzilla | Those wings still seem small for a commercial jet |
| 16:29.13 | Geekzilla | Fuselage protrudes out really far forward of the wings too |
| 16:29.14 | Geekzilla | :| |
| 16:29.46 | Lone_Wanderer | No, I saw it before on Reddit and the commentors there pointed it out to me. |
| 16:30.00 | Lone_Wanderer | I thought it was a missile at first too. |
| 16:30.16 | dataw0lf | I bet it really was a missile and some NSA submarine added the wings as it was transferred over the interwebz |
| 16:30.26 | Lone_Wanderer | Definitely. |
| 16:30.33 | levi | Lone_Wanderer: Anyway, there's all sorts of Sapir-Whorf discussion at Language Log. |
| 16:30.56 | Lone_Wanderer | It was Senator Stevens, he's got all the tubes rerouted through his office. |
| 16:30.59 | dataw0lf | levi: I don't like that throwing analogy, though. |
| 16:31.06 | Lone_Wanderer | levi: k I'll take a look at it in a bit here. |
| 16:32.29 | levi | http://tinyurl.com/3aterp |
| 16:32.43 | levi | There's a URL to a google search of all the Sapir-Whorf related articles on Language Log. |
| 16:33.10 | Geekzilla | Lone_Wanderer - it's not a series of tubes, it's a big truck! |
| 16:33.12 | Geekzilla | Dammit... |
| 16:33.24 | lukfugl | re: missile/plane -- just look at its size relative to the road. if it's a missile it's either 1) at a really high altitude to make it look that big, or 2) a really big missile |
| 16:33.45 | Geekzilla | Cruise missiles don't usually fly very low, do they? |
| 16:33.59 | Lone_Wanderer | Dude. It's a plane. |
| 16:34.10 | Geekzilla | I know. Just playing Devil's Advocate. |
| 16:34.11 | dataw0lf | cruise missiles fly very low |
| 16:34.18 | dataw0lf | and they're larger than a plane |
| 16:34.26 | dataw0lf | well, depends on the cruise missile. |
| 16:34.31 | Geekzilla | Hmmm |
| 16:34.39 | levi | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_Log |
| 16:34.48 | Geekzilla | The thing is, a cruise missile over Utah would not be an especially odd thing. |
| 16:34.54 | levi | A good intro to who the Language Log people are and what they write about. |
| 16:34.55 | Geekzilla | We *do* have the Dugway Proving Ground here. |
| 16:35.24 | Lone_Wanderer | Apparently my brain now considers "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/" to be a discrete (I think that's the word) block of text. |
| 16:35.41 | findlay | heh, I've been there |
| 16:35.47 | findlay | pretty boring actually |
| 16:35.58 | Lone_Wanderer | Because I just skip over it automatically and look at the article name. |
| 16:36.00 | Geekzilla | Well I'm sure. |
| 16:36.03 | dataw0lf | never been to Dugway |
| 16:36.09 | dataw0lf | been to white sands several times though |
| 16:36.15 | Geekzilla | "Congrats, you have the ENTIRE Great Salt Lake Desert to yourselves." |
| 16:36.27 | Geekzilla | "...now figure out something to do with it" |
| 16:36.44 | findlay | at night you can see Wendover lights from the east end of Dugway |
| 16:36.46 | levi | I lived in Dugway for a couple of years. |
| 16:37.03 | findlay | Dugway is so dangerous because of all the cosmic rays |
| 16:37.29 | findlay | Area 51's aliens is nothing compared to Dugway's cosmic rays |
| 16:37.34 | levi | Dugway is so dangerous because of all the buried mustard gas. |
| 16:37.41 | findlay | heh |
| 16:37.49 | dataw0lf | and various other biological and chemical weapons they've tested there |
| 16:37.56 | levi | It's a proving ground for chemical/biological weapons. |
| 16:37.58 | findlay | but no ketchup gas |
| 16:38.04 | levi | Among other things. |
| 16:38.16 | Geekzilla | levi - they test conventional munitions there, too, right? |
| 16:38.28 | dataw0lf | blister agents ain't no joke |
| 16:38.45 | findlay | when I was working there we could hear F-16's flying around all the time |
| 16:38.46 | Geekzilla | chlorine-- |
| 16:38.55 | findlay | I guess they do other modes of testing as well |
| 16:38.55 | levi | Dugway is next to the Skull Valley Indian Reservation, and there was an incident quite a few years ago where an entire flock of sheep there died in mysterious circumstances. |
| 16:39.02 | dataw0lf | some blister agents will eat through the current pro mask used by the military in minutes |
| 16:39.09 | Geekzilla | findlay - that's not too surprising. Hill AFB is to the north |
| 16:39.15 | Geekzilla | Biggest Falcon base in the country. |
| 16:39.15 | dataw0lf | levi: yea, because of 'pesticides' |
| 16:39.27 | dataw0lf | I don't think they concluded that it was vx, but I think that was the general theory |
| 16:39.58 | Lone_Wanderer | Oh well, it's just injuns. |
| 16:39.59 | findlay | Geekzilla: and Hill has a huge swath of range to the north of Dugway |
| 16:40.08 | levi | They also had a 'Japanese Village' set up to test the effectiveness of napalm on typical Japanese dwellings. |
| 16:40.16 | Lone_Wanderer | For some reason I read "death ray" in that sentence somewhere, findlay. |
| 16:40.18 | findlay | and a German villiage |
| 16:40.23 | levi | Yeah. |
| 16:40.35 | findlay | Lone_Wanderer: well, I can tell you stories about that too :) |
| 16:40.50 | findlay | Lone_Wanderer: it made way too much background noise in our detectors |
| 16:40.59 | Lone_Wanderer | I wonder how a death ray would work. |
| 16:41.06 | findlay | one of our detectors was only a couple of miles from German villiage |
| 16:41.15 | Lone_Wanderer | detectors? |
| 16:41.23 | levi | But, yeah, napalm was apparently pretty effective on the simulated Japanese village. |
| 16:41.23 | findlay | cosmic ray detectors |
| 16:41.30 | Lone_Wanderer | ahhh |
| 16:41.37 | dataw0lf | levi: heh, napalm is pretty effective on anything. |
| 16:41.38 | Lone_Wanderer | so you were serious about the cosmic rays? |
| 16:41.40 | findlay | levi: do you remember where Japanese Villiage was? |
| 16:41.46 | levi | findlay: Nope. |
| 16:41.50 | dataw0lf | Lone_Wanderer: Your chain is being pulled. |
| 16:42.13 | findlay | Lone_Wanderer: yeah, cosmic rays come from outer space and strike Dugway with vengence |
| 16:42.58 | Lone_Wanderer | Why Dugway? |
| 16:43.38 | Lone_Wanderer | dataw0lf: I thought maybe one of findlay's University research projects was to monitor cosmic radiations near Dugway. |
| 16:44.15 | dataw0lf | sir |
| 16:44.37 | levi | http://www.fortdouglas.org/articles/dugwayww2,htm.htm |
| 16:44.37 | brac | [DugwayWW2,htm] |
| 16:44.57 | findlay | Lone_Wanderer: sorry, my jokery didn't work out too well ): |
| 16:45.21 | findlay | Lone_Wanderer: cosmic rays are pretty much isotropic |
| 16:45.29 | Lone_Wanderer | What's isotropic? |
| 16:45.31 | levi | Dang, apparently some gunman just killed 20 at the Virginia Tech dorms. |
| 16:45.41 | dataw0lf | 20? |
| 16:45.45 | dataw0lf | It was at one a minute ago. |
| 16:45.46 | Lone_Wanderer | I bet he was Muslim! |
| 16:46.01 | Lone_Wanderer | ./timinator |
| 16:46.01 | findlay | Lone_Wanderer: no real wealth of statistics on fluxuations in CR density or arrival directions |
| 16:46.49 | levi | dataw0lf: Apparently the German Village did pretty well against the firebombs, but the Japanese Village was completely wiped out. |
| 16:47.02 | Lone_Wanderer | Up to 21 now. |
| 16:47.34 | dataw0lf | levi: Yea, I think I read somewhere that many casualties from the Japanese nuclear attacks were from their building structure |
| 16:47.35 | Lone_Wanderer | Would it be inappropriate to give him the "high score" for one-man shooting sprees? |
| 16:47.52 | Lone_Wanderer | You've got to give the Krauts props for being good engineers I guess. |
| 16:48.21 | dataw0lf | would've won if they could've manufactured more of their excellent weapons |
| 16:48.29 | dataw0lf | (and not gone into Russia) |
| 16:48.36 | Lone_Wanderer | Yeah the Russia thing was a big mistake. |
| 16:49.00 | Lone_Wanderer | If only the Princess Bride had been released prior to WWII, Hitler may not have made the mistake of starting a land war in Asia. |
| 16:50.58 | dataw0lf | You fell victim to one of the classic blunders! The most famous is never get involved in a land war in Asia, but only slightly less well-known is this: never go against a Sicilian when death is on the line! Hahahahahaha! Haha... |
| 16:51.00 | findlay | Lone_Wanderer: isotropic means uniformly distributed or uniformly dispesed |
| 16:51.06 | findlay | dispersed |
| 16:51.12 | Lone_Wanderer | findlay: ok thanks |
| 16:51.14 | levi | dataw0lf: Apparently more people died in firebombing Tokyo than in either of the nuclear attacks. |
| 16:51.38 | dataw0lf | levi: no kidding? |
| 16:51.48 | dataw0lf | nice. |
| 16:51.53 | levi | dataw0lf: Well, when your cities are made of wood and paper... |
| 16:52.01 | ^Migs^ | At least 20 people were killed in two shootings when a lone gunman opened fire on the Virginia Tech University campus in Blacksburg on Monday, police said. Police said they believe the shooter also is dead. Amie Steele, editor-in-chief of the campus newspaper, said one of her reporters at one of the dormitories where the shootings took place reported "mass chaos." |
| 16:52.08 | ^Migs^ | Police say there were two separate shooting incidents - one at West Ambler Johnston Hall, a student dormitory, and Norris Hall, an engineering building. |
| 16:52.34 | dataw0lf | levi: Yea. They should've thought a bit about that one. |
| 16:53.14 | Lone_Wanderer | Sounds like something out of The Big U |
| 16:53.15 | dataw0lf | Rule #232 Of Becoming A Fascist Power and Attempting World Domination: Confirm that cities are not the tactical equivalent of a pile of kindling. |
| 16:53.25 | Lone_Wanderer | Neal Stephenson |
| 16:54.24 | Lone_Wanderer | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Big_U |
| 16:54.38 | dataw0lf | Wonder what the gunmen were using |
| 16:54.50 | dataw0lf | that's a pretty high number |
| 16:55.06 | Lone_Wanderer | Yeah. |
| 16:55.12 | *** join/#utah Zilla (n=wanka@69.27.22.5) |
| 16:55.13 | Lone_Wanderer | I was thinking the same thing. |
| 16:55.26 | Lone_Wanderer | Most shooting sprees don't even get into the double digits. |
| 16:56.04 | dataw0lf | at a college you'd expect that if they were using some sort of single shot, they'd be taken down eventually. |
| 16:56.17 | dataw0lf | 20 sounds like a streetsweeper or something, crikey. |
| 16:56.36 | ^Migs^ | that must be a pretty crappy university |
| 16:56.43 | Lone_Wanderer | Apparently he went into a classroom at one point. |
| 16:57.55 | dataw0lf | probably a bunch of democrats go there |
| 16:58.32 | emcnabb | ^Migs^: why are you such a troll? |
| 16:58.54 | ^Migs^ | ? |
| 16:59.08 | emcnabb | "< ^Migs^> that must be a pretty crappy university" |
| 16:59.23 | ^Migs^ | why? Do you like Virginia Tech University? |
| 16:59.43 | emcnabb | I have several friends who went there |
| 17:00.01 | dataw0lf | (VT is actually a pretty good school) |
| 17:00.06 | ^Migs^ | I would think that any university in which not just one presumed student, but two presumed students go on a killing spree, has problems |
| 17:00.12 | levi | I went to high school in Virginia, and I never got the impression that Va Tech was a crappy school. |
| 17:00.38 | Jayce^ | friend of mine went there, loved it.. |
| 17:00.48 | Jayce^ | although, their mascot is the castrated rooster.... |
| 17:00.49 | dataw0lf | ^Migs^: I think that making a leap in logic about the quality of the school and the gunmen is probably ... idiotic. |
| 17:00.52 | emcnabb | 2 out of 26,000 students = crappy school |
| 17:00.55 | emcnabb | that's logic! |
| 17:01.17 | dataw0lf | "If you go to Virginia Tech, you'll become a mass murderer" - New Virginia U. ad |
| 17:01.18 | levi | I would think that any person which puts not just one presumed ^, but two presumed ^s around their IRC nick, has problems. |
| 17:01.28 | ^Migs^ | that's good to know. Now I no longer think VTU is a crappy school. |
| 17:02.00 | *** join/#utah Newsome (n=sorenson@adsl-68-22-220-206.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net) |
| 17:02.05 | dataw0lf | 21 people, says now |
| 17:02.11 | dataw0lf | oops, 22 |
| 17:02.33 | levi | So much for Trolley Square's spotlight. |
| 17:02.42 | Jayce^ | yeah a few minutes ago it was 1, quite the jump.. |
| 17:02.43 | dataw0lf | apparently there was a bomb threat friday, too |
| 17:02.53 | ^Migs^ | there goes Virginia Tech, trying to steal Trolley Square's thunder |
| 17:03.30 | Geekzilla | 22 DEAD? |
| 17:03.30 | Geekzilla | Holy balls |
| 17:03.30 | ^Migs^ | I know rite? |
| 17:03.30 | Jayce^ | accurate bugger.. |
| 17:03.30 | Jayce^ | no off-duty cop to take them down early at VT |
| 17:03.44 | ^Migs^ | I don't think killing real people is as easy as killing people in an FPS |
| 17:03.44 | ^emcnabb^ | I think that Utah is filled with horrible people because of what happened at Trolly Square. I think we should gas the whole state |
| 17:03.51 | ^Migs^ | agreed |
| 17:03.53 | lukfugl | yeah. 22 victims (wounded/dead) is one thing, but 22 fatalities is another |
| 17:04.08 | dataw0lf | Jayce^: That just surprises me |
| 17:04.09 | levi | I never heard the story of the Trolley Square shooter, aside from that he was from another country and had a girlfriend who he talked to right beforehand. |
| 17:04.11 | dataw0lf | 22 dead? |
| 17:04.16 | dataw0lf | I really want to know what type of weapon was used |
| 17:04.31 | dataw0lf | because if it was a deer rifle, they need to start giving self defense classes at VT, I'm sorry. |
| 17:04.34 | emcnabb | weapons, maybe? |
| 17:04.51 | lukfugl | levi: the still don't have a story, unfortunately. they're not sure they'll ever know what made him snap |
| 17:05.09 | Geekzilla | emcnabb - I don't think the whole state should be gassed. Just Larry H. Miller. |
| 17:05.10 | ^Migs^ | you know what would REALLY impress me, is if it were a crossbow |
| 17:05.11 | dataw0lf | emcnabb: Probably. I'm thinking at least a couple automatic weapons. |
| 17:05.13 | Geekzilla | But that's another story. |
| 17:05.14 | Geekzilla | :P |
| 17:05.40 | ^Migs^ | 22 DOES consist of the two separate shootings on the campus, though |
| 17:05.51 | Geekzilla | That's still pretty high |
| 17:05.52 | dataw0lf | ^Migs^: still |
| 17:05.56 | Geekzilla | What gets me |
| 17:06.01 | lukfugl | ^Migs^: confirmed that they were separate, now? |
| 17:06.09 | dataw0lf | and that coordination leads me to suspect even more that they've had some sort of training, law enforcement, military, something. |
| 17:06.11 | Geekzilla | Is that they're SEPARATE shootings |
| 17:06.17 | ^Migs^ | they were in separate buildings |
| 17:06.23 | dataw0lf | it had to be coordinated |
| 17:06.23 | Geekzilla | I doubt they're really separate |
| 17:06.25 | ^Migs^ | may or may not have been linked |
| 17:06.30 | Geekzilla | I mean |
| 17:06.41 | Lone_Wanderer | dataw0lf: why a deer rifle? |
| 17:06.42 | dataw0lf | that will be one helluva coincidence if they're not, ^Migs^ |
| 17:06.46 | Geekzilla | What are the odds that two disgruntled students decide to start killing people on EXACTLY the same day |
| 17:06.52 | dataw0lf | Lone_Wanderer: that and shotguns = easiest to acquire |
| 17:06.52 | Geekzilla | when it's not a holiday or something? |
| 17:06.55 | dataw0lf | especially out east |
| 17:07.04 | ^Migs^ | maybe they were students in the same class, and had a grueling exam on that day |
| 17:07.16 | levi | Here's a picture of German Village at Dugway: http://www.dees.dri.edu/Projects/wj_dugway.htm |
| 17:07.31 | ^Migs^ | that would up the odds |
| 17:07.34 | Lone_Wanderer | But why does deer rifle = need to start giving self defense classes? |
| 17:07.53 | ^Migs^ | because deer rifles seem to be shooting a lot of people these days |
| 17:08.49 | dataw0lf | Lone_Wanderer: because of the rate of fire |
| 17:08.51 | lukfugl | Lone_Wanderer: delay between shots, is that I think dataw0lf is getting at |
| 17:08.59 | lukfugl | s/that/what/ |
| 17:09.08 | dataw0lf | if you got some guy in a dorm, where he probably was walking through enclosed hallways, with a low rate of fire weapon, you'd think after the first four or five shots, you'd be able to take them down |
| 17:09.23 | Lone_Wanderer | Why? Aren't rifles semi-automatic? |
| 17:09.40 | lukfugl | Lone_Wanderer: um, usually not |
| 17:09.45 | Lone_Wanderer | I guess if you waited for him to reload you could pop out and throw a larger textbook at him. |
| 17:09.49 | Lone_Wanderer | My dad's is. |
| 17:09.54 | dataw0lf | some deer rifles are |
| 17:10.08 | Lone_Wanderer | As far as I can recall, all of the hunting rifles I've seen are semi auto. |
| 17:10.11 | dataw0lf | but the recoil on your standard deer rifle is going to make their rate of fire, especially with that sort of accuracy, pretty slow |
| 17:10.35 | Lone_Wanderer | That's why I'm going to use an M1 Garand on *my* shooting spree. |
| 17:10.37 | dataw0lf | if we're talking about a weapon with an extremely low recoil and semi automatic (ar15, etc), then you can imagine that. |
| 17:10.50 | dataw0lf | still though |
| 17:10.53 | Lone_Wanderer | Seeing as how I don't know what an AR15 is... ;p |
| 17:10.56 | ^Migs^ | why would they shoot college students? 22 bright young people, working toward a better future. At least shoot people who don't make an impact on society. |
| 17:11.04 | dataw0lf | civilian version of m16/m4 |
| 17:11.15 | Lone_Wanderer | I'm assuming they'd be killing the people they're most angry at. |
| 17:11.18 | dataw0lf | ^Migs^: I don't think their mind works like that. |
| 17:11.39 | Lone_Wanderer | i.e. I'd be going on shooting sprees in the MFHD building at BYU. Or maybe the dance building. |
| 17:11.54 | dataw0lf | you know what would be really weird |
| 17:11.59 | dataw0lf | if they weren't students at VT |
| 17:12.06 | Lone_Wanderer | "I JUST WANTED A DATE! JUST ONE SINGLE DATE!" |
| 17:12.14 | Geekzilla | Actually |
| 17:12.17 | Geekzilla | Today IS a holiday |
| 17:12.31 | Geekzilla | Hoffman discovered LSD's psychedelic effects today. |
| 17:12.34 | Geekzilla | That explains it. |
| 17:12.46 | lukfugl | tax day observed, as well |
| 17:12.55 | dataw0lf | ah tax day |
| 17:13.00 | dataw0lf | it's been explained |
| 17:13.20 | Geekzilla | That's gotta be it |
| 17:13.24 | dataw0lf | I wondered why I had a strange urge to start shooting strangers today. |
| 17:13.31 | Geekzilla | One too many failed e-Filings |
| 17:14.36 | dataw0lf | "It didn.t stop for almost two or three minutes," a junior from Fairfax named Josh told CNN. "It sounded like a handgun or something but it was many, many shots" |
| 17:14.51 | dataw0lf | I would be amazed if it was a handgun |
| 17:16.17 | dataw0lf | blown away, really. |
| 17:16.29 | Geekzilla | pun unintended |
| 17:16.33 | Geekzilla | ? |
| 17:16.42 | dataw0lf | figuratively, of course, although if someone can get that many people with a handgun, he can probably blow me away from Virginia |
| 17:17.19 | Geekzilla | If he's got an extended magazine and practice speed-loading? |
| 17:17.23 | Geekzilla | Not that too far-fetched. |
| 17:17.37 | dataw0lf | you'd have to be one amazing shot |
| 17:17.42 | Geekzilla | True. |
| 17:17.52 | Geekzilla | What're the odds he's ex-military? |
| 17:17.57 | Geekzilla | *they're |
| 17:18.00 | Geekzilla | I'd say pretty good. |
| 17:18.09 | dataw0lf | if it's a handgun I'd say for sure that he's (them) have had some sort of training. |
| 17:18.23 | dataw0lf | a handgun, you'd think law enforcement first, though. |
| 17:18.32 | Lone_Wanderer | Maybe a vet just back from Iraq who just got out of the hospital or something. |
| 17:18.34 | dataw0lf | the military doesn't do too much extensive handgun training. |
| 17:19.20 | dataw0lf | unless he's like, a SEAL officer or something. |
| 17:19.43 | dataw0lf | even then he'd probably choose an assault rifle of some kind, or at least an MP5 or something. |
| 17:19.51 | levi | Maybe he trained on one of those light gun video games. :P |
| 17:20.15 | dataw0lf | Hillary'll be all over it |
| 17:21.00 | dataw0lf | Geekzilla: if it's a handgun, I'm going to have to go for LE training. |
| 17:21.13 | dataw0lf | Most military members would definitely choose a rifle. |
| 17:21.59 | Geekzilla | Could be both, too |
| 17:22.11 | Geekzilla | Though the point is moot |
| 17:22.33 | Geekzilla | With the death toll, the coordination, and the casualties, I'd say someone went in with some prior experience. |
| 17:22.45 | dataw0lf | 22 dead and 22 wounded, I'd agree. |
| 17:23.14 | levi | Let me just change the subject for a moment to say that Battlestar Galactica looks excellent in HD. |
| 17:25.05 | dataw0lf | levi: yea it does, although from all the stuff I heard about the series I expected more |
| 17:25.10 | dataw0lf | the space combat is pretty cool though |
| 17:25.44 | levi | Took me a while to get used to the crazy abrupt camera zooms in the space scenes. |
| 17:25.54 | dataw0lf | ya |
| 17:26.25 | dataw0lf | I liked the Serenity combat at the end of the movie more than any other space combat I've seen. |
| 17:27.37 | levi | I like how the BSG stuff works. Kind of a mix of primitive and high-tech stuff. Mostly projectiles and missiles, not much in the way of flashy energy weapons. |
| 17:28.42 | dataw0lf | ya |
| 17:28.48 | levi | Some of it, like the missile streamers, are clearly just there for visual effect, but it does look cool. |
| 17:28.49 | dataw0lf | I dunno I quit watching after 4 episodes |
| 17:29.31 | levi | I've only watched the pilot and one episode so far. |
| 17:31.07 | dataw0lf | most of my friends really like it, but I just couldn't get into it. |
| 17:32.47 | dataw0lf | ... wow |
| 17:32.49 | dataw0lf | one gunman |
| 17:32.49 | levi | The Cylon chicks seem to all be pretty horny, though. I haven't figured out yet whether that's completely gratuitous or not. |
| 17:32.56 | dataw0lf | levi: it is |
| 17:33.31 | bonez39 | why will the default cd player open and play a disc, but if I want to close it...and open something else..to play an audio stream..why does the new player error...telling me it can't find the sound card? why won't the prior application release its control? |
| 17:35.16 | levi | Because Linux audio is just like everything else in the Unix world. There are a number of incompatible ways to do it, all broken in different ways. |
| 17:35.53 | levi | I'm sorry I can't offer a lot of help, except to note that when it happens to me, I grep the output of lsof to see if I can find what process is still holding the audio device. |
| 17:36.12 | levi | I don't know if that advice is very current, though. The set of incompatible ways to do things is always changing. |
| 17:40.17 | bonez39 | thanks....I need to read up on lsof..it took forever to list everything... |
| 17:43.35 | levi | That's why I run grep on its output. |
| 17:46.43 | graphyx | latest report indicated that there are 29 dead |
| 17:47.08 | graphyx | which far surpasses the prior largest event that occured in 1966 with something like 16 dead. |
| 17:47.19 | Geekzilla | 32 dead now |
| 17:47.19 | Geekzilla | :| |
| 17:48.00 | graphyx | blink and the number goes up. |
| 17:49.15 | ^Migs^ | wtf |
| 17:49.36 | bonez39 | the END must be near..............time to pack up the wagon and head to Jackson County.......NNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOTTTTT |
| 17:49.37 | ^Migs^ | I can't even imagine what hell the families of all the students must be going through right now |
| 17:49.51 | ^Migs^ | wow, that was...unnecessary |
| 17:50.10 | graphyx | bonez39: I am a lot closer to there than the rest of you al. |
| 17:50.18 | bonez39 | ^Migs^, I am just saying it seems like the whole world is going insane...... |
| 17:50.21 | graphyx | s/al/all/ |
| 17:50.37 | bonez39 | ^Migs^, mean no disrespect.....none at all |
| 17:50.40 | ^Migs^ | or maybe the news media is just covering more of it |
| 17:51.25 | ^Migs^ | where's hear that 32 number from, Geekzilla ? |
| 17:51.28 | bonez39 | perhaps it's just more awareness.......still .. I buleeve....that if everyone were armed...no one is his or her right mind would ever pick up a weapon and go one a rampage |
| 17:51.50 | ^Migs^ | I didn't feel disrepected. It's just that I haven't heard "NNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOTTTTT" in, like, 20 years. |
| 17:53.49 | graphyx | At this point I don't think anyone more is being shot, but rather that the awareness of the total problem is expanding. |
| 17:54.05 | dataw0lf | no, the shooter apparently is dead |
| 17:54.23 | graphyx | or perhaps the wounded have died. |
| 17:54.28 | ^Migs^ | yeah, I assumed they were finding more bodies or something |
| 17:54.41 | graphyx | 30 dead. |
| 17:54.43 | Lone_Wanderer | iirc the level of overall human-caused violence is going down |
| 17:54.43 | ^Migs^ | wow, how is this even news? http://today.reuters.com/news/articleinvesting.aspx?type=bondsNews&storyID=2007-04-16T170914Z_01_N16319466_RTRIDST_0_USA-CRIME-SHOOTING-BUSH.XML |
| 17:54.46 | Lone_Wanderer | historically |
| 17:55.17 | graphyx | The gunman must have come with tons of clips, etc. |
| 17:55.24 | graphyx | I can't even imagine. |
| 17:55.37 | graphyx | dataw0lf: Had you been there armed, would you have tried to take him out? |
| 17:55.54 | dataw0lf | if I had been there unarmed I would've attempted to take him out |
| 17:55.59 | ^Migs^ | I wouldn't |
| 17:56.03 | ^Migs^ | that's suicide |
| 17:56.05 | dataw0lf | if I had been armed he would've been gone |
| 17:56.20 | graphyx | You have a concealed carry permit? |
| 17:56.22 | dataw0lf | ^Migs^: I just can't imagine sitting around and letting a guy pop off people |
| 17:56.27 | dataw0lf | graphyx: yes. |
| 17:56.36 | graphyx | I am not surprized. |
| 17:56.50 | goozbach | dataw0lf: you're ex-military aren't you? |
| 17:56.52 | ^Migs^ | if I was armed, I would |
| 17:56.54 | Lone_Wanderer | ^Migs^: You also have never been under fire before, I'm assuming. |
| 17:57.03 | ^Migs^ | no, of course not |
| 17:57.07 | Lone_Wanderer | Okay I need a new chat client. |
| 17:57.07 | graphyx | which reminds me about this one thing that I read comparing school today to 40 years ago. |
| 17:57.49 | graphyx | One point was the situation that a student brings a rifle to school. Today: full school lock down with the cops taking the kid down to jail in cuffs. |
| 17:58.22 | graphyx | 40 years ago the principal pulls out his rifle and they chat about the next hunting season. |
| 17:58.25 | Lone_Wanderer | I used to bring a rifle to school all the time. |
| 17:58.33 | ^Migs^ | heh, do you remember where you saw that? |
| 17:58.34 | dataw0lf | goozbach: yes. |
| 17:59.04 | Lone_Wanderer | First at St. Thomas, which had a rifle team and a crack drill squad (that drilled with rifles) |
| 18:00.02 | Lone_Wanderer | then at BYU, where I was on a drill team that used M1 Garands |
| 18:00.03 | dataw0lf | Lone_Wanderer: What I find more telling is that my school had metal detectors, and there was probably 1 kid shot near school property a year |
| 18:00.06 | dataw0lf | but never got any press |
| 18:00.22 | dataw0lf | but a couple white kids in surbubia show up with some pistols (and don't even use them), and it's national news |
| 18:00.22 | Lone_Wanderer | Well, they were probably black or hispanic or asian, right? |
| 18:00.35 | dataw0lf | yea, it was a predominantly black public school in chicago |
| 18:00.44 | Lone_Wanderer | In my school it would've been asians probabl. |
| 18:00.46 | Lone_Wanderer | probably* |
| 18:01.20 | goozbach | ~seen sjansen |
| 18:02.27 | ibot | sjansen <n=sjansen@class1-nat.gurulabs.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #utah, 2d 18h 53m 46s ago, saying: '~teenagerate lukfugl '. |
| 18:02.44 | Lone_Wanderer | ~teenagerate lukfugl |
| 18:15.39 | ^Migs^ | http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/04/16/1457215&from=rss |
| 18:32.43 | levi | Interesting calculator: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/10/business/2007_BUYRENT_GRAPHIC.html |
| 18:32.47 | brac | [Is It Better to Buy or Rent? - New York Times] |
| 18:35.44 | lukfugl | interesting |
| 18:38.54 | levi | Huh, a guy who used to frequent #lisp and went missing was recently found dead in a body of water. |
| 18:39.26 | dataw0lf | is Hans Reiser accounted for? |
| 18:39.40 | pmcnabb | -lart Reiser |
| 18:39.44 | ^Migs^ | this looks like it might be a fun game: http://www.nexon.net/ (IE only) |
| 18:39.50 | ^Migs^ | it already has more registered users than WoW |
| 18:41.12 | ^Migs^ | er |
| 18:41.15 | ^Migs^ | audition.nexon.net |
| 18:52.53 | levi | Speaking of games: http://almy.us/image/dungeon.jpg |
| 18:54.00 | lukfugl | ah, zork |
| 18:55.05 | lukfugl | or Adventure? (it's been long enough I might be getting them mixed up) |
| 18:55.31 | lukfugl | yup, zork |
| 19:05.01 | *** join/#utah tiwula (n=lane@208.64.90.18.utahbroadband.com) |
| 19:05.46 | Lone_Wanderer | more registered users than WoW, and I haven't heard of it? |
| 19:05.51 | Lone_Wanderer | I find this to be highly improbable. |
| 19:06.29 | Lone_Wanderer | Requires IE and it has more registered users than WoW? |
| 19:06.34 | Lone_Wanderer | Now I know they're lying. |
| 19:10.19 | ^Migs^ | it's probably more because it's free |
| 19:10.39 | *** join/#utah redbeard2 (n=redbeard@c-67-161-242-51.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 19:11.19 | Lone_Wanderer | My guess is that, if they aren't blatantly lying, they're counting registered accounts (with potentially more than one user per account) rather than actual customers. |
| 19:11.21 | ^Migs^ | I miss the Colossal Cave Adventure |
| 19:11.29 | Lone_Wanderer | That sounds familiar. |
| 19:11.32 | Lone_Wanderer | And awesome. |
| 19:13.00 | lukfugl | redbeard2, what did you do with redbeard1? |
| 19:13.49 | Lone_Wanderer | I mean, WoW has like 5 million subscribers. |
| 19:14.20 | ^Migs^ | this one has 50 million |
| 19:14.22 | Lone_Wanderer | I'm no longer surprised when I find out that my sister's friend (and her brother, and her parents) play wow. |
| 19:15.05 | Lone_Wanderer | So if they really had ten times the subscribers, I think I would've met a few people who play it before. |
| 19:15.30 | ^Migs^ | actually, that 50 million is just in China. I don't know about the rest of the world |
| 19:15.34 | Lone_Wanderer | And/or heard of it through one of the many gaming news channels I regularly check out. |
| 19:15.56 | Lone_Wanderer | I'm like Zaphod, man. |
| 19:15.59 | ^Migs^ | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audition_online#History |
| 19:16.00 | Lone_Wanderer | If I haven't heard of it, it aint fun. |
| 19:16.03 | ^Migs^ | Electronic Times Internet, an IT news website, reported that Audition reached 50 million registered users in China, with 500,000 concurrent players. Baidu, the Chinese search engine, revealed that Audition ranks first in all its searches, and is ahead of games like Crazy Racing and World of Warcraft. |
| 19:16.08 | ^Migs^ | haha. |
| 19:16.11 | ^Migs^ | yeah |
| 19:16.23 | ^Migs^ | way to succumb to corporate marketers |
| 19:16.33 | Lone_Wanderer | Penny Arcade is hardly a corporate marketer. |
| 19:16.56 | Lone_Wanderer | Although, there are games that are largely limited to the Asian markets that can get huge numbers of subscribers. |
| 19:17.15 | ^Migs^ | yeah, such as Audition Online |
| 19:17.23 | Lone_Wanderer | Originally started for and still popular in Korea - that says it all right there. |
| 19:17.41 | Lone_Wanderer | When it comes to hardcore gaming, nobody's got Korea beat. |
| 19:17.56 | Lone_Wanderer | Not even Japan. |
| 19:18.12 | ^Migs^ | my Korean friend spends at least 8 hours a day playing video games. |
| 19:18.22 | ^Migs^ | Yet he somehow manages to get all his PhD lab work done. I don't get that. |
| 19:18.30 | Lone_Wanderer | No eating, no sleeping. |
| 19:18.45 | Lone_Wanderer | people have literally died in Korea from gaming too long |
| 19:18.57 | Lone_Wanderer | like in Vegas where people die from gambling too long |
| 19:19.07 | Lone_Wanderer | they forget to get up to pee |
| 19:19.17 | ^Migs^ | ya, that nearly happened to me last week |
| 19:19.18 | Lone_Wanderer | and then when they stop their bodies go into shock |
| 19:19.24 | Lone_Wanderer | how long were you playing for? |
| 19:19.56 | ^Migs^ | I wasn't even playing anything. I was watching TV. |
| 19:20.04 | Lone_Wanderer | ahh |
| 19:20.26 | ^Migs^ | I had to drop a fat deuce but I didn't want to get up. After I finally did I had massive cramps the rest of the day. |
| 19:22.16 | Lone_Wanderer | How charming. |
| 19:22.58 | ^Migs^ | not really. It was kind of painful. |
| 19:24.14 | ^Migs^ | there a big turtle head poking out, but I kept sucking it back in. That's how much I didn't want to get up. Eventually I couldn't keep it in anymore and I penguin-walked up to the bathroom, prairie-dogging it the whole way upstairs. |
| 19:24.57 | *** mode/#utah [+o goozbach] by ChanServ |
| 19:26.22 | ^Migs^ | too much info? |
| 19:28.21 | goozbach | yeah |
| 19:29.14 | ^Migs^ | sorry |
| 19:29.54 | Lone_Wanderer | Yes. Far too much. |
| 19:31.19 | ^Migs^ | that's really not as much detail as I would usually go into |
| 20:06.26 | rsimpkins | Hi all. I'm looking for a gnome ticker applet of any type that I can some how feed in custom data. Any ideas? |
| 20:06.50 | rsimpkins | So a panel app that is a news ticker, or something similar. |
| 20:17.05 | *** join/#utah Robdor (n=Robdor@208.187.198.179) |
| 20:28.31 | *** join/#utah Geekzilla (n=wanka@c-67-166-67-241.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 20:41.22 | Lone_Wanderer | I need a new computer game to play. |
| 20:51.33 | graphyx | puzzle quest. |
| 20:51.43 | ^Migs^ | what kind of computer game? |
| 20:52.02 | ^Migs^ | play any of these games: http://new.bigbluecup.com/games.php |
| 20:52.04 | lukfugl | zcode-interpreter + trinity.dat |
| 20:52.05 | brac | [AGS Games] |
| 21:04.19 | Lone_Wanderer | dataw0lf: He was believed to have used either two 9 mm. caliber handguns or a 9 mm. caliber handgun and a .22 caliber handgun. |
| 21:04.32 | Lone_Wanderer | Looking for a more involved type probably. |
| 21:04.46 | Lone_Wanderer | Something like Civ III, or an RTS, or a really good MMO. |
| 21:05.02 | Tene | Does anyone know how to give normal users privileges to change things in cups' web interface? |
| 21:05.15 | Tene | Lone_Wanderer: I enjoyed Vendetta Online for a month or so |
| 21:05.24 | Tene | I know people that like freeciv |
| 21:05.39 | ^Migs^ | play Audition Online: http://audition.nexon.net |
| 21:05.55 | Tene | I really used to enjoy Total Annihilation, and now there's an open-source TASpring project to re-implement it |
| 21:05.59 | ^Migs^ | I just installed it on my laptop and I'm going to try it with a friend tonight |
| 21:06.01 | Tene | Looks pretty promising |
| 21:06.22 | Lone_Wanderer | Audition Online requires IE, which precludes my enjoying it. |
| 21:06.25 | dataw0lf | Lone_Wanderer: wow |
| 21:06.39 | ^Migs^ | do you require a Linux-only game? |
| 21:06.45 | Lone_Wanderer | No. |
| 21:06.51 | Lone_Wanderer | I use Windows at home. |
| 21:06.52 | ^Migs^ | you don't have IE? |
| 21:07.04 | ^Migs^ | you don't need IE. It's a standalone client. |
| 21:07.13 | ^Migs^ | you need IE to view their web site, though |
| 21:07.17 | Lone_Wanderer | I just refuse to use any site, regardless of its purpose, that thinks I have to use IE. |
| 21:07.20 | Lone_Wanderer | Exactly. |
| 21:07.28 | ^Migs^ | uh, okay |
| 21:07.29 | Lone_Wanderer | So I'm not going to view it. kthxbye. |
| 21:07.32 | ^Migs^ | that's pretty close-minded |
| 21:07.54 | Lone_Wanderer | No, designing a site only for IE is close[sic]-minded. |
| 21:08.13 | Tene | migs: I don't think anyone here cares what you think about their values. |
| 21:08.51 | ^Migs^ | what' even more close-minded is designing a site only for FF |
| 21:09.11 | Lone_Wanderer | Hey I have an idea. |
| 21:09.39 | ^Migs^ | good idea, since I'm right |
| 21:09.41 | Tene | Lone_Wanderer: I've really enjoyed adom recently. |
| 21:09.58 | Tene | migs: shut up |
| 21:09.59 | Lone_Wanderer | What kind of game is it? |
| 21:10.17 | Tene | Lone_Wanderer: similar to nethack |
| 21:10.25 | Lone_Wanderer | I've never played nethack. |
| 21:10.44 | Lone_Wanderer | I was going to once when I was younger, but then I realized it didn't actually have anything to do with network cracking. |
| 21:10.52 | Tene | character-based diablo-ish style. |
| 21:10.57 | Lone_Wanderer | ahh, cool |
| 21:11.04 | Tene | guide your @-symbol around in ascii dungeons. |
| 21:11.23 | Tene | slaying dangerous fs and Ds |
| 21:11.32 | elg | and $s |
| 21:11.44 | elg | and maybe a few !s or, if you're really lucky, a ∑ |
| 21:11.45 | Lone_Wanderer | So it's like the MUD version of Diablo. |
| 21:11.54 | ^Migs^ | oh man, I remember when I came up against my first D. I was so scared. |
| 21:11.56 | ^Migs^ | uh |
| 21:12.01 | ^Migs^ | hehe, noob |
| 21:12.03 | elg | no, muds are like IF |
| 21:12.09 | Tene | Lone_Wanderer: no, it's pictures and such, just drawn out with ascii |
| 21:12.11 | elg | this is ascii art |
| 21:12.14 | Lone_Wanderer | oh cool |
| 21:12.31 | Tene | individual characters representing monsters and such |
| 21:12.38 | Lone_Wanderer | Right, that's what I mean. |
| 21:12.45 | Lone_Wanderer | It's like Diablo, only with text instead of graphics. |
| 21:12.55 | Tene | http://www.tripalot.com/roguelike/images/adom.gif |
| 21:12.57 | Tene | yeah |
| 21:12.58 | lukfugl | no, still graphics, just ascii graphics |
| 21:13.56 | Tene | Lone_Wanderer: I was interpreting "mud-style" as meaning "Go north. Attach ye dragon. -- There is a great castle before you. There are exits to the north and the west." and such |
| 21:14.37 | Tene | wow, awkward typo. |
| 21:14.51 | ^Migs^ | MUDs are cool too, but you can get places faster in a nethack/rogue game |
| 21:15.09 | ^Migs^ | and often customize and develop your character better |
| 21:15.16 | Tene | if you're itnerested in a mud, I've really enjoyed retromud in the past. |
| 21:15.39 | ^Migs^ | one of my ex-coworkers develops MUDs |
| 21:15.41 | elg | yeah, customize. like you can make your guy do the jig by hitting two arrow keys in rapid succession |
| 21:16.43 | lukfugl | s/dos/DOS/ |
| 21:16.59 | elg | hehe. face was awesome |
| 21:17.03 | Lone_Wanderer | Heh, attach ye dragon. |
| 21:17.07 | Lone_Wanderer | Like the dog welder. |
| 21:17.11 | lukfugl | that's right, "face" |
| 21:17.31 | Tene | ibot: tene is also Attach ye dragon |
| 21:17.34 | ibot | okay, Tene |
| 21:17.39 | Lone_Wanderer | aaahg my legs hurt |
| 21:20.26 | elg | don't run then |
| 21:20.32 | lukfugl | ~tsr Jayce^ |
| 21:20.45 | Lone_Wanderer | Well I have to if I'm going to do a triathlon. |
| 21:20.59 | elg | Lone_Wanderer: don't do a triathlon then |
| 21:21.13 | Lone_Wanderer | But I want to. |
| 21:21.22 | elg | hmm, this sounds familiar |
| 21:21.42 | lukfugl | ~clone mheath |
| 21:21.44 | ibot | ACTION takes out his Cloner-2000 and starts making dozens of duplicates of mheath! |
| 21:22.01 | findlay | Lone_Wanderer: you need to excercize your front leg muscles. Try walking backwards a lot or walking on your heels |
| 21:22.12 | Lone_Wanderer | Okay. |
| 21:22.14 | Jayce^ | also, watch your shoes |
| 21:22.23 | Jayce^ | quality/wear |
| 21:22.26 | Lone_Wanderer | I have running shoes. I tie them loosely. |
| 21:22.28 | Lone_Wanderer | They're almost new. |
| 21:22.42 | Jayce^ | that can cause problems if it's not what you are used to |
| 21:23.00 | Jayce^ | if you modify your step because of them, you are using your muscles differently.. |
| 21:23.01 | Lone_Wanderer | So just walk on my heels or backwards for ten or twenty minutes a day? |
| 21:23.10 | Jayce^ | that can help.. |
| 21:23.17 | Lone_Wanderer | The problem is that I have no idea whether I'm modifying my step or not :( |
| 21:23.30 | Jayce^ | find a good running store near you, they will be able to help figure that out.. |
| 21:23.41 | Jayce^ | (my wife is a marathoner, so I hear all about this regularly) |
| 21:23.41 | Lone_Wanderer | I've got these insoles in my normal shoes. They're supposed to squish my feet into a particular shape. |
| 21:23.49 | Lone_Wanderer | Maybe I should take them out and put them into my running shoes when I use them. |
| 21:23.59 | Lone_Wanderer | I got my shoes from The Runner's Corner in Orem. |
| 21:24.13 | Jayce^ | good store, talk to them more about what you are feeling, and they can help you |
| 21:24.32 | Jayce^ | probably avoid insoles |
| 21:24.38 | Lone_Wanderer | ok |
| 21:24.43 | Lone_Wanderer | well, they gave them to me. |
| 21:24.46 | Lone_Wanderer | Or sold them to me rather. |
| 21:25.28 | Jayce^ | (probably, I'm don't know what ones you have, your shoes, or your walking/running styles) |
| 21:25.38 | Lone_Wanderer | k |
| 21:25.50 | Jayce^ | they have people there that can watch your stride and make the necessary suggestions.. |
| 21:26.10 | Jayce^ | also, I haven't seen him around a while, but sasha (sometimes watching plug) is a *really* good runner |
| 21:26.40 | Lone_Wanderer | Ahhh yes, Sasha. |
| 21:26.51 | Lone_Wanderer | Whose wife kept running while pregnant. |
| 21:26.51 | findlay | yeah, he can tell from your irc nick what kind of stride you have |
| 21:26.57 | Lone_Wanderer | lol |
| 21:27.01 | Jayce^ | hehe |
| 21:30.26 | ^Migs^ | oh man, I have productive coworkers |
| 21:30.44 | ^Migs^ | some of them went on a rafting trip last Friday. They've spent ALL day today just splicing the video of it together, adding music, special effects, etc. |
| 21:30.58 | ^Migs^ | that's hilarious. If taxpayers knew how people around here were wasting their time, they'd be furious. |
| 21:31.20 | findlay | man, it took me 15 minutes to get this girl to admit she's married |
| 21:31.38 | findlay | next time I'll just be tactless and ask |
| 21:32.14 | lukfugl | ^Migs^: where's work? |
| 21:32.48 | Tene | findlay: to "admit"? |
| 21:32.56 | ^Migs^ | there's all watching it on the projector right now |
| 21:32.59 | Tene | Is marriage typically a secret shame, or something? |
| 21:33.03 | ^Migs^ | I don't know if I should say where work is |
| 21:33.10 | findlay | Tene: basically |
| 21:33.18 | Tene | findlay: oh? howso? |
| 21:33.22 | findlay | because |
| 21:33.24 | ^Migs^ | oh, movie's over. Now they're playing ping-pong |
| 21:33.31 | Lone_Wanderer | findlay: what girl? |
| 21:33.35 | findlay | heh, real men play pong |
| 21:33.45 | findlay | Lone_Wanderer: just some girl I met |
| 21:34.08 | raventh1 | I have a theory about girls in utah |
| 21:34.11 | Lone_Wanderer | And you didn't want to just come right out and say "Are you married" because you didn't want her to know that you're interested? |
| 21:34.28 | findlay | Lone_Wanderer: that's part of it, yes |
| 21:34.29 | Lone_Wanderer | Because trust me, she already knows ;) |
| 21:34.41 | findlay | hence my point |
| 21:34.53 | Lone_Wanderer | Ahh, I see. |
| 21:35.33 | raventh1 | basically it's something like this: they're all crazy |
| 21:35.41 | ^Migs^ | not only that, people around here take, like, 2-hour lunches |
| 21:35.42 | findlay | married girls shouldn't look tempting. They should dress in dark grey kimonos and shuffle around not meeting anyone's eyes |
| 21:35.51 | ^Migs^ | I keep turning them down to go with them, because they take SOO long |
| 21:35.54 | findlay | that would make it easier |
| 21:36.08 | ^Migs^ | married girls should just stay in the house all day, barefoot and pregnant, only going outside to get the mail |
| 21:36.18 | findlay | that might work too |
| 21:36.20 | raventh1 | probably has something to do with the high amount of medication perscriptions... |
| 21:36.57 | Tene | findlay: so you're saying that you're not interested in associating with females except in trying to find a mate? |
| 21:37.21 | findlay | Tene: no |
| 21:37.25 | ^Migs^ | arranged marriages aren't such a bad idea |
| 21:40.15 | Tene | findlay: so it's more that you want to know that they're married so that you know to exclude them from being considered potential mates? |
| 21:41.06 | lukfugl | ow |
| 21:41.24 | Lone_Wanderer | findlay: I agree completely. |
| 21:41.30 | findlay | Tene: no, I don't generally deal in so ultimate terms. Some girls I meet I may be interested in dating |
| 21:41.45 | findlay | you can't date someone who is married |
| 21:42.02 | Tene | Right. |
| 21:42.11 | Lone_Wanderer | In theory. |
| 21:42.15 | Geekzilla | findlay - oh, you *Can*. It just makes you a cockbite. |
| 21:42.30 | Geekzilla | Kind of like banging your roommate's ex 3 days after the breakup. |
| 21:42.39 | Geekzilla | This also makes one a cockbite. |
| 21:42.50 | findlay | I'm not sure I want to lex all of that |
| 21:43.15 | Lone_Wanderer | How long do you have to wait to sleep with your roommate's ex after they break up for it to be okay? |
| 21:43.23 | Tene | Geekzilla: when findlay is around we try to pretend that people don't have genitals and that sex doesn't exist. |
| 21:43.25 | Geekzilla | Eh. I'd say a 15 day grace period |
| 21:43.27 | *** join/#utah Robdor (n=Robdor@208.187.198.179) |
| 21:43.48 | Geekzilla | Pfffft. I take God's approach - I am no respecter of persons. |
| 21:43.51 | Lone_Wanderer | Oh, findlay, are you the guy who thinks that making out before marriage is a travesty? |
| 21:44.10 | Lone_Wanderer | Or dating before marriage for that matter? I don't remember who that was. |
| 21:44.12 | Geekzilla | There is also no restriction on non-friends/roommates |
| 21:44.32 | Geekzilla | However, roommates, friends, etc. are off-limits for at least 15 days. I think that's pretty fair. |
| 21:44.33 | findlay | yes I believe all of those things and more |
| 21:44.36 | Lone_Wanderer | I have a friend wh...o.... never mind. |
| 21:44.41 | Tene | Geekzilla: I personally find findlay worthy of respect. |
| 21:44.41 | dataw0lf | Lone_Wanderer: That's up to the roommate. |
| 21:44.43 | dataw0lf | Not you. |
| 21:44.49 | dataw0lf | You have to discuss it with the roommate. |
| 21:44.54 | Lone_Wanderer | dataw0lf: good answer |
| 21:45.02 | findlay | yes, I got another dating discussion going |
| 21:45.07 | Lone_Wanderer | Mine would be "If you ever touch her, I will kill you. I don't care where you are." |
| 21:45.55 | dataw0lf | Lone_Wanderer: Really? I'm the exact opposite. |
| 21:45.55 | dataw0lf | Do what you like. |
| 21:45.55 | Lone_Wanderer | "I will cross each of the seven continents." |
| 21:45.55 | Lone_Wanderer | I guess it depends on who does the breaking up. |
| 21:45.55 | Geekzilla | It depends on the circumstances. |
| 21:45.55 | Geekzilla | This particular instance aroused my ire. |
| 21:45.55 | Tene | If I break up with someone, I probably don't care much about whatever you want to do with her. |
| 21:46.05 | Lone_Wanderer | Yeah, if someone wanted to date the girl I just broke up with, I'd be fine with it. |
| 21:46.14 | Lone_Wanderer | I might feel bad for the guy but that's a completely separate issue. |
| 21:46.18 | dataw0lf | girls grown on trees; you just have to find the right orchard. |
| 21:46.22 | Geekzilla | The fact that he's going around telling people he can kick my ass also irks me. |
| 21:46.36 | Geekzilla | This is going to have to stop, or I foresee a meeting in the parking lot. |
| 21:46.50 | dataw0lf | Geekzilla: are you in high school? |
| 21:46.59 | Geekzilla | No, and that's what annoys me. |
| 21:47.05 | Lone_Wanderer | Where are you? |
| 21:47.07 | Geekzilla | I'm graduating college in 9 months. |
| 21:47.15 | Lone_Wanderer | BYU? :D |
| 21:47.18 | Geekzilla | I'm a student at Neumont University down in South Jordan. |
| 21:47.19 | Geekzilla | Fuck BYU |
| 21:47.20 | Geekzilla | :P |
| 21:47.27 | dataw0lf | whoa, watch the language |
| 21:47.33 | Geekzilla | *screw |
| 21:47.35 | Geekzilla | Better? |
| 21:47.36 | lukfugl | ~language Geekzilla |
| 21:47.42 | ibot | ACTION grabs Geekzilla by the ear and washes Geekzilla's mouth out with soap |
| 21:47.57 | Geekzilla | Apologies. |
| 21:48.10 | Geekzilla | Anyway - I thought I'd left this sort of crap behind in high school |
| 21:48.37 | dataw0lf | so, wait, he had sex with your ex roommate, and now he wants to beat you up/ |
| 21:48.46 | dataw0lf | s/\/// |
| 21:48.50 | Geekzilla | But when you go to an all comp-sci school peopled by 350 social rejects who've never been out from under the popular kids' thumbs and are now suddenly free... |
| 21:49.05 | Geekzilla | ...it's like all the stuff they never got to do in high school comes out of the woodwork |
| 21:49.09 | Lone_Wanderer | I think the guy is Geekzilla's roommate, and is sleeping with Geekzilla's ex gf, only a few days after she broke up with him. |
| 21:49.11 | dataw0lf | rather, you had sex with his ex girlfriend. |
| 21:49.15 | Geekzilla | Nein. |
| 21:49.17 | dataw0lf | oh |
| 21:49.18 | Geekzilla | He had sex with mine. |
| 21:49.29 | Geekzilla | And is now telling people - as is she - that he could kick my ass. |
| 21:49.35 | dataw0lf | this benadryl is really getting to me |
| 21:49.38 | dataw0lf | yea, that's a guy for you |
| 21:49.39 | Geekzilla | Stupid immature high school garbage. |
| 21:50.00 | Lone_Wanderer | And now he (the roommate) is going around telling everyone that Geekzilla wouldn't stand a chance in a fight between the two of them. |
| 21:50.02 | Lone_Wanderer | I recommend Wing Chun Kung Fu. |
| 21:50.05 | Geekzilla | The weird thing is, we broke up in FEBRUARY |
| 21:50.06 | Geekzilla | This crap should have stopped within a couple weeks |
| 21:50.06 | findlay | how about augmenting the conversation now with a few more outrageous things that findlay believes? |
| 21:50.09 | Lone_Wanderer | I know several qualified instructors. |
| 21:50.21 | dataw0lf | either beat him up next time you see him |
| 21:50.21 | dataw0lf | or ignore it |
| 21:50.21 | dataw0lf | it's not worth worrying about. |
| 21:50.24 | Lone_Wanderer | -chat about findlay believes |
| 21:50.24 | brac | findlay believes |
| 21:50.37 | findlay | like, you're not supposed to eat ramen after making out |
| 21:50.38 | dataw0lf | findlay believes in unicorns |
| 21:50.40 | Geekzilla | dataw0lf - I'll admit, I'm kind of tempted to goad him into it |
| 21:50.55 | Lone_Wanderer | I heard that findlay believes in homeopathic medicine. |
| 21:50.55 | Geekzilla | This guy's bugged me since well before he bagged my ex |
| 21:51.22 | Lone_Wanderer | And the celestial teapot. |
| 21:51.25 | dataw0lf | Geekzilla: I just don't see the rationale in the drama. If someone was telling people they could beat me up, I'd probably just forget about it until the next time I saw them and either beat them up or intimidate them into crying. But I wouldn't worry about it. |
| 21:51.26 | Lone_Wanderer | -chat about findlay believes |
| 21:51.27 | brac | findlay believes in unicorns |
| 21:51.30 | findlay | is that like psycopathin medecine? |
| 21:51.31 | Lone_Wanderer | There we go. |
| 21:51.45 | dataw0lf | Geekzilla: personally, to me, it sounds like you're attempting to justify to yourself on whether to fight him. |
| 21:51.47 | Geekzilla | If he hadn't been such a douche about it, I'd feel sorry for him - I'll never understand the mentality of guys who fall for sluts, and expect them not to do repeat performances. |
| 21:51.52 | Geekzilla | dataw0lf - well sure I am. |
| 21:51.53 | dataw0lf | But that's what I'm gathering from the little online interaction we've had. |
| 21:51.57 | Lone_Wanderer | findlay: google it, it's too much to type. |
| 21:52.18 | Geekzilla | I'm debating whether to walk the higher road |
| 21:52.29 | Geekzilla | Or give into my inner Neanderthal and make him squeal. |
| 21:52.29 | dataw0lf | I guess I don't do much self justification. |
| 21:52.36 | findlay | psychopathic medecine! |
| 21:52.39 | findlay | yes |
| 21:52.41 | Geekzilla | psychopathic medicine++ |
| 21:52.44 | Lone_Wanderer | Just beat the crap out of him and get it over with. |
| 21:52.44 | findlay | that's the answer |
| 21:52.57 | Lone_Wanderer | Or just hit him good once in the jaw. |
| 21:53.06 | Lone_Wanderer | And say "Sorry, but you know I had to do that, right?" |
| 21:53.10 | Geekzilla | heh |
| 21:53.17 | Tene | Geekzilla: either beat him up or ignore him. |
| 21:53.27 | Geekzilla | Tene - yes, that IS the issue at question |
| 21:53.34 | Tene | unless he actually *could* easily beat you. |
| 21:53.40 | dataw0lf | (sounds like it) |
| 21:53.56 | Tene | In which case I guess you should just ignore him. |
| 21:53.58 | Geekzilla | Meh. It'd be a pretty even fight. |
| 21:54.18 | Geekzilla | At least in pure terms of body mass/muscle |
| 21:54.44 | Geekzilla | Bah, whatever. |
| 21:54.48 | Geekzilla | I'll cross the bridge when I come to it. |
| 21:54.52 | dataw0lf | there you go |
| 21:54.55 | Lone_Wanderer | Do either of you know any martial arts? |
| 21:54.58 | Lone_Wanderer | 'cause that can make a big difference. |
| 21:55.03 | Tene | Geekzilla: get him to beat you up and film it, then post it to the channel. |
| 21:55.17 | Lone_Wanderer | Or do either of you have experience fighting. |
| 21:55.25 | Geekzilla | Lone_Wanderer - both fencers. I stopped at foil and went on to battoh-do and iaido |
| 21:55.30 | Geekzilla | He did epee |
| 21:55.34 | Geekzilla | But those are weapon arts. |
| 21:55.49 | dataw0lf | sounds useful! |
| 21:55.57 | Geekzilla | Not sure of his hand-to-hand background. |
| 21:56.12 | Geekzilla | I've done a little bit with aikijujutsu, but not enough to call myself experienced. |
| 21:56.13 | Tene | Do what I suggested! |
| 21:56.17 | Tene | Then I can laugh at you! |
| 21:56.20 | dataw0lf | hehe |
| 21:56.24 | Geekzilla | Heh. |
| 21:56.28 | Geekzilla | I'll keep that in mind. |
| 21:56.30 | Tene | That would be fun. |
| 21:56.34 | Geekzilla | It could always net me $400 from Break.com |
| 21:57.34 | Tene | Lately I've been really wanting to get in a fight of some sort. I should start going back to my Medieval Combat class. That was fun. |
| 21:57.41 | Geekzilla | In other news: I love sourceforge |
| 21:57.54 | dataw0lf | Tene: for twenty dollars I'll fight you. |
| 21:58.35 | Lone_Wanderer | Tene: What class? |
| 21:58.39 | Lone_Wanderer | I'll fight you for $10. |
| 21:58.44 | dataw0lf | hey |
| 21:58.53 | Lone_Wanderer | Also I'm closer. |
| 21:58.55 | dataw0lf | I'll fight you for free LW! |
| 21:58.58 | Tene | Lone_Wanderer: "Medieval Combat" |
| 21:58.58 | dataw0lf | ;-) |
| 21:59.09 | dataw0lf | Tene: How fitting. |
| 21:59.09 | Lone_Wanderer | Tene: where? when? |
| 21:59.11 | Lone_Wanderer | dataw0lf: deal :p |
| 21:59.17 | Tene | grappling, rondel, longsword, etc. |
| 21:59.26 | dataw0lf | Lone_Wanderer: you're going to the republican friday, yes? |
| 21:59.28 | dataw0lf | yes. |
| 21:59.39 | Lone_Wanderer | Is it with ARMA? |
| 21:59.39 | dataw0lf | word, that's what I wanted to hear. |
| 21:59.39 | Lone_Wanderer | Republican Friday? |
| 21:59.40 | Tene | Lone_Wanderer: Taylorsville, in the evenings. I think the beginner class is Monday night. Why? |
| 21:59.52 | Lone_Wanderer | 'cause if it's with ARMA I want to go. |
| 21:59.58 | Lone_Wanderer | Hey, I'm moving to Taylorsville. |
| 22:00.25 | Tene | Lone_Wanderer: where are you at now? |
| 22:00.38 | Lone_Wanderer | I live in Orem right now. But I work up in Salt Lake. |
| 22:00.44 | Lone_Wanderer | Foothill Village. |
| 22:00.48 | Tene | Lone_Wanderer: it's not with ARMA. |
| 22:01.02 | Lone_Wanderer | Meh. |
| 22:01.06 | Tene | Where in Taylorsville are you moving? |
| 22:01.06 | Lone_Wanderer | ARMA rocks. |
| 22:01.23 | Lone_Wanderer | 40th south and 11th west, about, I think. |
| 22:01.43 | Lone_Wanderer | It may be 39th south and 10th west. |
| 22:01.48 | Lone_Wanderer | Fairway apartments. |
| 22:02.02 | Tene | Yeah, that's really close to me. |
| 22:02.09 | Lone_Wanderer | cool |
| 22:02.18 | Lone_Wanderer | We could totally fight tonight if you wanted! |
| 22:04.32 | Lone_Wanderer | heh |
| 22:04.40 | Lone_Wanderer | "The Achilles symbol and the Tortoise symbol encounter each other inside the author’s cranium." |
| 22:05.48 | levi | Geekzilla: So, what is Neumont like, aside from the High School-type drama? |
| 22:05.53 | findlay | awesome! |
| 22:06.29 | dataw0lf | what's Neumont? |
| 22:06.59 | levi | dataw0lf: Some accelerated CS-only school. |
| 22:07.13 | levi | I got a brochure for it when it first opened. |
| 22:07.27 | dataw0lf | levi: isn't there a north<something> too? |
| 22:07.37 | levi | Possibly. I dunno. |
| 22:07.43 | Lone_Wanderer | Tene: I do know what you mean about wanting to fight though. I get that feeling now and then so I go back to wing chun and do some chi sao. |
| 22:07.50 | dataw0lf | maybe I'm thinking of Neumont |
| 22:07.52 | vontrapp | levi: is there a better way to get values out of datatypes than just using cases? |
| 22:08.10 | *** join/#utah Keighvin (n=ptomlins@kei.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 22:08.20 | levi | Neumont is supposed to be right by where I live, and I've biked by its supposed location many times, but never figured out where it was. |
| 22:08.43 | vontrapp | e.g. to get field a (cases datatype datum (type1 (a b) a)) without so much nonsense |
| 22:08.46 | levi | vontrapp: Could I have a little context? What language are you talking about? |
| 22:08.52 | vontrapp | scheme |
| 22:08.55 | levi | Ahh. |
| 22:09.35 | Keighvin | ~shoot Jayce^ |
| 22:09.39 | ibot | ACTION shoots Jayce^ in the foot with a phase pistol! |
| 22:09.42 | levi | From what I remember about how EOPL sets things up, that's the way you have to do it. |
| 22:09.52 | vontrapp | *groan* |
| 22:10.37 | vontrapp | bah |
| 22:10.38 | findlay | ~shoot girls |
| 22:10.40 | ibot | ACTION shoots girls in the head with a spitwad! |
| 22:10.44 | vontrapp | wish it could be more general |
| 22:10.48 | levi | My only exposure to it was through looking at maquis's assignments, so I may be mistaken. |
| 22:11.22 | levi | It may set up some datatype-field accessors already. |
| 22:11.22 | maquis | what about my assignments? |
| 22:11.29 | levi | maquis: Your CS330 assignments. |
| 22:11.33 | vontrapp | ~scheme maquis |
| 22:12.02 | maquis | levi: oh... |
| 22:12.04 | maquis | *shudder* |
| 22:12.15 | vontrapp | gah, even that is hard |
| 22:12.17 | vontrapp | hmmm |
| 22:12.24 | Geekzilla | dataw0lf - it used to be Northface |
| 22:12.41 | dataw0lf | ah, yea, that's it |
| 22:12.42 | Geekzilla | levi - it's on River Front Parkway right off I-15 and 106th South |
| 22:12.50 | dataw0lf | I got a brochure from em when I was still living in SLC |
| 22:13.05 | Geekzilla | It's mostly a Microsoft shop for the first year or so, but after that you can either stick with .NET or move to Java |
| 22:13.08 | Geekzilla | I took the latter route |
| 22:13.26 | levi | Geekzilla: Yeah, but does it have a sign or anything? I ride down that road all the time. |
| 22:13.27 | Geekzilla | Simply because M$ annoys me, and I'd rather gargle broken glass than work for them. |
| 22:13.29 | findlay | sounds like a lot of options there |
| 22:13.52 | Geekzilla | findlay- the idea is teach the theory and train on real-world tools |
| 22:13.56 | levi | I like C# better than Java, though Java is getting better. |
| 22:14.00 | Geekzilla | So that students don't get entrenched in one language |
| 22:14.08 | findlay | Geekzilla: ok, I can handle that :) |
| 22:14.17 | Geekzilla | They just keep it simple from the get-go. |
| 22:14.36 | Geekzilla | The premise of the school seems to be training good architects and project managers rather than code-monkeys |
| 22:14.40 | findlay | Geekzilla: specifically because that's how I was first taught with c++, and I loved it |
| 22:15.00 | Geekzilla | levi - C# as a language kicks Java's ass |
| 22:15.17 | Geekzilla | However, its runtime leaves something to be desired |
| 22:15.23 | Geekzilla | Because its vaunted portability is a big joke |
| 22:15.23 | Geekzilla | :\ |
| 22:15.47 | Geekzilla | If the non-Windows .NET implementations ever get as robust as Java's various-platform imps... |
| 22:15.52 | nick125_lappy | C# and Java are the *same* thing (syntax-wise) |
| 22:15.54 | Geekzilla | ... then fuckin' w00t. |
| 22:15.56 | levi | C#'s portability is vaunted? By whom? |
| 22:16.05 | Geekzilla | Microslaves mostly. |
| 22:16.27 | vontrapp | ~language Geekzilla |
| 22:16.29 | ibot | ACTION grabs Geekzilla by the ear and washes Geekzilla's mouth out with soap |
| 22:16.32 | Geekzilla | I should have put portability in quotes |
| 22:16.33 | levi | Portable to any Microsoft platform you'd like. |
| 22:16.40 | Geekzilla | Yeah |
| 22:16.43 | levi | And kinda sorta to some others via Mono. |
| 22:17.02 | Geekzilla | Mono's castrated though |
| 22:17.21 | Geekzilla | With the level of support Mono has, you may as well just write in Java |
| 22:17.29 | Geekzilla | Because all the advantages of writing in C# are gone |
| 22:17.42 | levi | My experience with Mono was mixed. Everything I did worked correctly, but somewhat slowly. Fortunately I didn't want to make a portable gui. |
| 22:17.52 | Geekzilla | Yeah... |
| 22:18.09 | Geekzilla | Mono's got a long way to go before it's a mature implementation |
| 22:18.22 | levi | Anyway, do you end up studying programming languages, compilers, database theory, etc? |
| 22:18.36 | Geekzilla | Not as much is done on how compilers work as I would like |
| 22:18.45 | Geekzilla | But database theory and information modeling are big ones |
| 22:19.07 | Geekzilla | The "star" professor here is Dr. Terry Halpin, ex-Visio guy |
| 22:19.16 | levi | Ahh. |
| 22:19.21 | Geekzilla | He's kind of like the Wizard of ORM |
| 22:19.34 | levi | That's pretty cool. |
| 22:19.37 | Geekzilla | Formalized Object Role Modeling in his doctoral thesis |
| 22:19.42 | Geekzilla | ORM beats the crap out of ER and UML |
| 22:19.58 | Geekzilla | Seriously - I'll never model a database in anything else unless I'm forced to |
| 22:20.34 | levi | I guess there's not much emphasis on programming language theory, then. |
| 22:21.02 | Geekzilla | There's a lot of focus on object-oriented approach etc. |
| 22:21.17 | Geekzilla | But as far as the content from a traditional CS program... |
| 22:21.19 | Geekzilla | no. |
| 22:21.23 | Geekzilla | I do miss that, actually. |
| 22:21.31 | levi | That's the impression I got from the brochure. |
| 22:21.43 | vontrapp | levi: any ideas how i would change "'string'" to "string"? |
| 22:21.46 | dataw0lf | oh jeez. the guy who had sex with your ex goes to Northface too? |
| 22:21.53 | Geekzilla | dataw0lf - as does my ex |
| 22:21.53 | dataw0lf | yes, please, video that fight. |
| 22:21.53 | Geekzilla | lol |
| 22:21.53 | levi | That's my primary interest right now, so it probably wouldn't be the place for me. |
| 22:22.07 | Geekzilla | levi - it's basically comp-sci for business |
| 22:22.12 | Geekzilla | If you're aiming to become an academic |
| 22:22.18 | dataw0lf | I thought it was codemonkey fare. |
| 22:22.20 | vontrapp | or vice versa |
| 22:22.21 | Geekzilla | Or a researcher, I'd recommend against it |
| 22:22.46 | levi | vontrapp: I'd write a function that removes the first and last characters from a string, and another that adds them back on. |
| 22:23.09 | levi | vontrapp: Using substring and string-ref, IIRC. |
| 22:23.10 | Geekzilla | dataw0lf - no. The idea is that codemonkeying can be outsourced. Architecture/design, business analysis, and similar jobs are harder to do that with. |
| 22:23.19 | vontrapp | is there a way to do that without converting the string to a list? |
| 22:23.34 | levi | vontrapp: I usually have a web page open to the index of R5RS when I'm coding scheme, so I can remember that stuff. |
| 22:23.48 | Lone_Wanderer | So there's girls at the all comp sci school? |
| 22:23.53 | vontrapp | hmm, /me looks up string-ref and substring |
| 22:23.54 | Geekzilla | Lone_Wanderer - 20 of them to be exact |
| 22:23.58 | Tene | Geekzilla: I'll even coem video it for you |
| 22:24.02 | Lone_Wanderer | On un unrelated note (no, seriously), where's it located? |
| 22:24.15 | Geekzilla | Lone_Wanderer - South Jordan. Just off I-15 and 106th south |
| 22:24.22 | Geekzilla | On the west side of I-15 |
| 22:24.28 | Lone_Wanderer | Are they hiring TA's? |
| 22:24.37 | Lone_Wanderer | Backing up - are there evening classes or labs? |
| 22:24.40 | Geekzilla | Lone_Wanderer - I'd imagine so. |
| 22:24.48 | Geekzilla | And yes, there are some evening CS courses. |
| 22:24.49 | levi | Geekzilla: Does it have a sign? Is it in one of those high-rises? Are there dorms, or does everyone commute? |
| 22:24.56 | ScytheBlade1 | What place is this? |
| 22:25.02 | ScytheBlade1 | Seeing as I live at I-15 and 106th... |
| 22:25.17 | Geekzilla | levi - Yes. It's in an office building. The "dorms" are apartments sublet by the university. And a lot commute |
| 22:25.22 | Geekzilla | There're a lot of older students |
| 22:25.30 | Geekzilla | ScytheBlade1 - Neumont University. |
| 22:25.34 | ScytheBlade1 | Ahh |
| 22:25.37 | ScytheBlade1 | That's what I thought |
| 22:25.45 | ScytheBlade1 | Didn't know they had "dorms" though |
| 22:25.50 | Geekzilla | Sterling Village apartments |
| 22:25.57 | ScytheBlade1 | Last I checked, they were a MS/IBM shop |
| 22:25.57 | Lone_Wanderer | Doesn't a university have to have two or more colleges? |
| 22:26.00 | Geekzilla | And the Falls at what's it's nuts. |
| 22:26.06 | Geekzilla | ScytheBlade1 - yeah. |
| 22:26.13 | ScytheBlade1 | Just making sure nothing changed. |
| 22:26.20 | Geekzilla | Lone_Wanderer - they're about to fire up the Washington, DC campus |
| 22:26.31 | ScytheBlade1 | Funded by and course content outlined by MS |
| 22:26.35 | ScytheBlade1 | Mmmm, MS |
| 22:26.36 | Lone_Wanderer | That's not a college, that's a campus. |
| 22:26.39 | Geekzilla | Not funded by MS |
| 22:26.43 | ScytheBlade1 | Partially |
| 22:26.46 | Geekzilla | But they help |
| 22:26.52 | Geekzilla | IBM is actually a much bigger contributor |
| 22:26.55 | ScytheBlade1 | They're a "notable contributor" |
| 22:26.57 | Lone_Wanderer | A "College" is a set of two or more Departments. |
| 22:27.05 | Geekzilla | And the majority of funding is private equity. |
| 22:27.23 | Lone_Wanderer | A Department would be something like the Department of Agronomy or the Department of Biology or the Department of Animal Sciences |
| 22:27.25 | ScytheBlade1 | Geekzilla, you go there? |
| 22:27.33 | Geekzilla | Lone_Wanderer - they're also doing an MBA program. |
| 22:27.40 | Geekzilla | So I suppose that may be how they fit the definition. |
| 22:27.48 | Lone_Wanderer | Ahh okay. |
| 22:28.01 | Lone_Wanderer | Yeah, then they'd have a business college and a computing college. |
| 22:28.05 | levi | Geekzilla: Has it got official accreditation, or does it function on the reputation of its sponsors? |
| 22:28.05 | Geekzilla | ScytheBlade1 - yeah. I'm in my last year. |
| 22:28.15 | ScytheBlade1 | Geekzilla, ah, cool. I drive by it... every single day. |
| 22:28.18 | Geekzilla | levi - it has accreditation, but it's from one of the independent boards. |
| 22:28.20 | ScytheBlade1 | You must enjoy that stoplight :) |
| 22:28.26 | findlay | Lone_Wanderer: btw, thanks for feeling my pain ;-) |
| 22:28.26 | Geekzilla | ScytheBlade1 - I HATE THAT THING |
| 22:28.29 | ScytheBlade1 | Haha |
| 22:28.33 | Lone_Wanderer | findlay: on what? |
| 22:28.39 | Geekzilla | IT DRIVES ME COMPLETELY MAD |
| 22:28.41 | findlay | about girls |
| 22:28.43 | Lone_Wanderer | Oh, girls? |
| 22:28.44 | Lone_Wanderer | Yeah. |
| 22:28.47 | ScytheBlade1 | I'm not the least bit surprised |
| 22:28.57 | Geekzilla | It's actually better than it used to be though |
| 22:29.01 | Lone_Wanderer | I want to make a shirt that says "Girls are dumb, throw rocks at them." |
| 22:29.05 | ScytheBlade1 | So many *stupid* people driving *right there* |
| 22:29.17 | Geekzilla | ScytheBlade1 - You're not in Sterling Village, are you? |
| 22:29.30 | Lone_Wanderer | So the feminists can get all up in arms and then i can show them the t-shirt that says the same thing about boys that everyone thinks is cute. |
| 22:29.32 | ScytheBlade1 | Geekzilla, no. Take that road south until you hit housing. I'm in there-ish. |
| 22:29.40 | Geekzilla | Ah. Okay, then |
| 22:29.50 | ScytheBlade1 | Past the roundabouts and everything else |
| 22:30.07 | Geekzilla | Yeah... many fond memories of taking those things waaaaay too fast in my friend's Land Rover |
| 22:30.09 | Geekzilla | :P |
| 22:30.15 | ScytheBlade1 | lol |
| 22:30.33 | ScytheBlade1 | ;) |
| 22:30.39 | Geekzilla | Nah, no skids |
| 22:30.55 | Geekzilla | But we almost rolled a couple times into those rock-gardens they keep putting on the roundabouts |
| 22:31.04 | Geekzilla | That was fairly entertaining. |
| 22:31.14 | Geekzilla | This guy's a lunatic - he's totaled two landrovers in a year and a half |
| 22:31.24 | Lone_Wanderer | how does he get insurance? |
| 22:31.25 | ScytheBlade1 | That's somewhat scary |
| 22:31.25 | Geekzilla | I'm actually afraid to ride with him |
| 22:31.28 | Geekzilla | Hell if I know |
| 22:31.33 | Lone_Wanderer | and why does he keep buying high-centered vehicles? |
| 22:31.39 | Geekzilla | Stupidity? |
| 22:31.44 | Geekzilla | He drives an X-Terra now |
| 22:31.51 | Lone_Wanderer | (I actually know how he keeps getting insurance, it was rhetorical :p) |
| 22:32.21 | Lone_Wanderer | If you qualify for a driver's license, companies are legally required to sell you insurance. |
| 22:32.24 | Geekzilla | I'm hell-bent on getting one now, because I was in it with him in a minor wreck (Amazingly, this one *wasn't* his fault) |
| 22:32.47 | Geekzilla | The other car, a Mercury Cougar, was *obliterated* |
| 22:32.53 | Lone_Wanderer | Not all companies, but there are companies that operate in the "someone needs to insure these guys so we might as well" market. |
| 22:32.53 | Geekzilla | Entire driver's side crushed in a good food |
| 22:32.54 | Geekzilla | *foot |
| 22:33.19 | Geekzilla | The X-Terra had a cracked bumper cover, a few scratches, a cracked headlight cover, and the blinker bulb popped loose |
| 22:33.27 | vontrapp | ~blame vehicular arms race |
| 22:33.29 | ibot | ACTION blames vehicular arms race (and Canada) for all the evil in the world |
| 22:33.29 | Lone_Wanderer | Maybe I should have picked fewer songs to put into my zip file for purposes of testing the download? |
| 22:34.27 | Geekzilla | Aside from the annoyance of the Microsoft shop, it's a good education |
| 22:34.34 | Geekzilla | Expensive as all hell, unfortunately. |
| 22:34.38 | findlay | ~ibot microsoftiness |
| 22:34.46 | vontrapp | if people didn't drive xterras and the like all over then the roads would be safer for those of us with little cars |
| 22:34.49 | ScytheBlade1 | Geekzilla, yeah, I sometimes drive from I-15 to said stoplight on my way home at ~5:30 PM... and all I ever ever see is about 20-30 cars backed up :) |
| 22:34.50 | vontrapp | and gas would be cheaper |
| 22:35.01 | findlay | ScytheBlade1: which light? |
| 22:35.01 | Geekzilla | But if it lands me the kind of job that some of my friends have walked out with... |
| 22:35.05 | Geekzilla | I will not be complaining. |
| 22:35.12 | Geekzilla | findlay - 106th south and River Front pkwy |
| 22:35.18 | Lone_Wanderer | What kind of jobs, Geekzilla? |
| 22:35.19 | ScytheBlade1 | findlay, what Geekzilla said |
| 22:35.37 | Geekzilla | Lone_Wanderer - mostly as application consultants and the like |
| 22:35.52 | Geekzilla | First class graduated in March '06, 22 graduates |
| 22:36.00 | Geekzilla | All had jobs waiting |
| 22:36.04 | Lone_Wanderer | By what kind I actually mean how much are they making. |
| 22:36.12 | Geekzilla | And most of those I knew were starting ~$61k |
| 22:36.19 | Lone_Wanderer | k |
| 22:36.23 | Geekzilla | Between that and about $70 |
| 22:36.28 | Geekzilla | Depending on a few factors |
| 22:36.32 | Geekzilla | One of which was gender |
| 22:36.34 | Geekzilla | :\ |
| 22:36.38 | ScytheBlade1 | http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=South+Jordan+Utah&layer=&ie=UTF8&z=18&ll=40.558894,-111.909925&spn=0.002445,0.005879&t=h&om=1 <-- there's a stoplight there now |
| 22:36.38 | Lone_Wanderer | Girls made more? |
| 22:36.41 | Geekzilla | Yeah. |
| 22:36.54 | Geekzilla | One woman in the class is making almost $90k |
| 22:37.00 | Geekzilla | Which blows my mind. |
| 22:37.12 | ScytheBlade1 | THe buildings to the due south, one of them is said place |
| 22:37.15 | Lone_Wanderer | I'm not bitter or anything. |
| 22:37.22 | Geekzilla | I mean, what about all the whining about how "women make less than men"? |
| 22:37.27 | Lone_Wanderer | Exactly. |
| 22:37.34 | Lone_Wanderer | She was doing that just the other day. |
| 22:37.48 | levi | Geekzilla: That's not a very statistically significant sample. |
| 22:38.01 | Geekzilla | I know for a FACT that my ex is going to be making more than I do, mostly on account of her astonishing rack. |
| 22:38.15 | Geekzilla | She's a brilliant programmer |
| 22:38.20 | Geekzilla | AND good-looking. |
| 22:38.34 | mrpull | Geekzilla: now I know you are full of it |
| 22:38.47 | Geekzilla | mrpull - note I said ex. |
| 22:38.48 | Geekzilla | :( |
| 22:38.54 | Keighvin | I've known some of those. |
| 22:39.05 | mrpull | i'm going to have to see photographic evidence cross referenced with a code review |
| 22:39.07 | Keighvin | Or as my buddy Mike would put it, "There's only 2 reasons she was hired." |
| 22:39.09 | Geekzilla | http://myspace.com/tehnovus |
| 22:39.15 | Geekzilla | I don't have any of her code |
| 22:39.28 | Geekzilla | Mostly because I hate the way she programs. |
| 22:39.32 | Geekzilla | It bothers the fuck out of me |
| 22:39.39 | Geekzilla | ~language Geekzilla |
| 22:39.41 | ibot | ACTION grabs Geekzilla by the ear and washes Geekzilla's mouth out with soap |
| 22:39.48 | lukfugl | three strikes? |
| 22:41.02 | lukfugl | "She's a brilliant programmer." == "I hate the way she programs." |
| 22:41.02 | Lone_Wanderer | You hate the way she codes but acknowledge that she's a brilliant programmer? |
| 22:41.02 | Geekzilla | Heh. I didn't say she wasn't good. I just dislike her approach. |
| 22:41.12 | ScytheBlade1 | She's making more than you are! |
| 22:41.14 | ScytheBlade1 | ;) |
| 22:41.17 | Geekzilla | Not yet. |
| 22:41.20 | Geekzilla | But I imagine she will. |
| 22:41.27 | Geekzilla | My ego is fine with that. |
| 22:42.01 | Geekzilla | I'm more driven by how much I enjoy my job than how much I make. |
| 22:42.32 | Geekzilla | If I can get a nice cushy, quiet job as a business analyst, perhaps at an advertising firm or somesuch, I will be quite content. |
| 22:42.38 | Lone_Wanderer | I thought you said you're going to school there because of how much your friends who graduated from it are making? |
| 22:42.57 | Geekzilla | No, I said that the KIND of jobs they're getting kept me hopeful. |
| 22:43.02 | Geekzilla | You asked how much they made. |
| 22:43.02 | Geekzilla | :P |
| 22:43.55 | Geekzilla | Don't get me wrong - I won't turn down good money. It's just less of a factor for me than job satisfaction. |
| 22:44.41 | Geekzilla | I watched my dad work a well-paying but thankless job for six years, till he moved to his current employer. He's a completely different man now. |
| 22:45.08 | Lone_Wanderer | If I ln music/foo/bar.mp3 zips/Joe/Pajamas.mp3 |
| 22:45.15 | Lone_Wanderer | and there is no Joe directory inside zips |
| 22:45.20 | Lone_Wanderer | am I going to get an error? |
| 22:45.31 | Keighvin | Should, yes. |
| 22:45.36 | Lone_Wanderer | meh, ok |
| 22:45.41 | Keighvin | But why ask, rather than execute the command? |
| 22:45.42 | Geekzilla | Not because the pay is better, although it is, but because he's not micromanaged all the time. He's given largely free rein |
| 22:48.59 | Lone_Wanderer | Because I'm putting it in a script, Keighvin. |
| 22:49.05 | Lone_Wanderer | Although I see your point, I could just try it once. |
| 22:49.17 | Keighvin | And not testing the individual components? For shame. |
| 22:51.53 | vontrapp | bah, eqv? only takes 2 args, taht's not very schemelike |
| 23:02.34 | *** join/#utah beandog_ (n=sdibb@cg.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 23:06.13 | lukfugl | *sigh* |
| 23:06.29 | lukfugl | now we just need to wait for mheath to show up... |
| 23:06.57 | Lone_Wanderer | Our Geek friend isn't nearly as bad. |
| 23:09.11 | *** part/#utah mrpull (n=mrpull@205.158.184.126.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 23:09.45 | Lone_Wanderer | Hmm I think Apache is limiting my ability to download files larger than a certain size. |
| 23:11.00 | *** join/#utah TimRiker (n=timr@216.49.181.128) |
| 23:11.00 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 23:11.27 | lukfugl | Lone_Wanderer: your CGI library may also be limiting that for you. what language/library? |
| 23:12.08 | Lone_Wanderer | No language. |
| 23:12.13 | Lone_Wanderer | I'm giving a direct link to the file. |
| 23:12.27 | Lone_Wanderer | Specifically because PHP was choking on large files. |
| 23:12.30 | lukfugl | oh, you're serving the file |
| 23:12.34 | Lone_Wanderer | Yeah. |
| 23:12.35 | lukfugl | I thought you were fetching |
| 23:12.39 | Lone_Wanderer | Nope. |
| 23:12.41 | *** join/#utah mrpull (n=mrpull@205.158.184.126.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 23:13.23 | lukfugl | and I guess what I was thinking of was for uploading (form multipart, etc.) not downloading |
| 23:13.53 | mrpull | i seem to recall 2GB being a limit for serving |
| 23:16.54 | Lone_Wanderer | I will never again underestimate the time it takes to make php interact with command line utilities properly. |
| 23:36.01 | findlay | yeah! custom, dynamic validation |
| 23:36.09 | findlay | I'm special now |
| 23:36.27 | vontrapp | ~validate findlay |
| 23:36.53 | findlay | 'findlay' is valid programmer, baby! |
| 23:48.34 | Tene | findlay: eh? |
