| 00:00.23 | herlo | dilvie: I love that photo you posted |
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| 00:11.40 | dilvie | thanks herlo =) |
| 00:14.49 | herlo | dilvie: you are learning quickly. I wish I had your talent for faces. I would love to learn how to do such things... |
| 00:15.03 | herlo | I tend to do better with scenery and builings and such... |
| 00:23.01 | dilvie | I need to practice architecture photography more. |
| 00:23.07 | dilvie | Especially shooting buildings downtown. |
| 00:23.26 | dilvie | I've had trouble finding the best angles and perspectives to photograph the tall buildings well. |
| 00:23.41 | dilvie | I'm thinking from midway or high up in another building would be cool. |
| 00:23.54 | dilvie | getting access might be tricky, though. =) |
| 00:55.31 | mheath | I want to get some opinions |
| 00:57.34 | mheath | I'm planning on starting a website/initiative for a Made for Linux logo, and trying to get community action to pressure vendors into including said logos on software and hardware projects. |
| 00:58.07 | mheath | What do you all think of this concept? And do you think that there would be very much community support for such an idea? |
| 00:59.10 | mheath | Or, I should rephrase. Not a Made for Linux logo, a Compatible with Linux logo AND a Made for linux logo / branding materials |
| 01:17.13 | bonez41 | Anyone here deploying Zimbra ? |
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| 02:17.08 | tensai | elg: I went looking for supplies yesterday. still looking though so I haven't started anything. |
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| 03:44.20 | elg | tensai: I looked for bricks today. my home depot didn't have any |
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| 04:34.30 | ScytheBlade1 | http://www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~night/crossroads/index1.html |
| 04:34.32 | brac | [Crossroads] |
| 04:57.40 | tensai | elg: yeah, mine only had one that was a paver. I'm not sure it would like high temperatures much, although it would work for a smoker. |
| 04:57.54 | tensai | elg: they were pricier than the bricks mentioned on one of those sites |
| 04:58.15 | tensai | might need to check out a masonry store. luckily I know where one is. |
| 05:01.47 | elg | yeah, I'm going to have to swing by a masonry store here too. the home depot guys looked at me like I was from mars when I asked if they had vermiculite or perlite |
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| 06:55.05 | bonez41 | elg, ever been to germany or other EU countries where they do real cobbelstone? |
| 06:55.58 | bonez41 | german style paving with real stone is the way to go....but you can't find stones here..only manmade pavers..... |
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| 08:20.34 | nick125_lappy | What the heck, GAIM renamed themselves to Pidgin |
| 08:23.05 | Tene | nick125_lappy: yes, as a result of legal pressure from AOL |
| 08:23.29 | nick125_lappy | I'm wondering why they chose that name |
| 08:23.51 | Tene | I like it. |
| 08:24.43 | nick125_lappy | I guess that it's going to be like every name that's came out, people will hate it at first, then they will get used to it |
| 08:25.17 | Tene | Someone in another channel was suggesting that it was somehow a pun on "pigeon", and I was quite annoyed with that for some reason. |
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| 13:43.59 | elg | Tene: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pidgin |
| 13:43.59 | elg | seems like an appropriate name |
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| 17:36.27 | levi_home | mheath> Cobol was an unpopular, unsuccessful, rediculously complicated and lacking language that was invented decades ago and never became popular. |
| 17:36.47 | atoponce | heh |
| 17:37.02 | levi_home | Yeah, it's still running on mainframes today because it was unsuccessful and never popular. |
| 17:37.07 | atoponce | let's see. started in '59, and the last update was 2002ish? |
| 17:37.33 | levi_home | mheath, yet again, proudly displays his ignorance. |
| 17:43.31 | levi_home | "In 1997, the Gartner Group reported that 80% of the world's business ran on COBOL with 180 billion lines of code in existence and with an estimated 5 billion lines of new code annually." |
| 17:44.09 | levi_home | That's the story of an unpopular, unsuccessful, never popular language, all right. :P |
| 17:48.29 | atoponce | what's interesting about cobol, though, is how old and popular it is, yet it only inspired PL/I, which stayed in existence for may 10 years |
| 17:48.53 | atoponce | you would think that it would've spawned more successful languages |
| 17:49.14 | levi_home | Well, it spawned later versions of itself. |
| 17:50.09 | atoponce | heh |
| 17:50.22 | atoponce | one of which being y2k compliant |
| 17:56.47 | nick125_lappy | Places still use COBOL? |
| 19:02.08 | mheath | levi_home, with computer programmers. :) |
| 19:02.25 | mheath | Business Executives like cobol. Programmers did not :) |
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| 19:16.31 | mheath | I still maintain that COBOL was fundamentally unpopular, though. It was used because nothing else like it exised at the time, and it made business people happy. |
| 19:20.38 | nick125_lappy | Wow....... |
| 19:21.04 | nick125_lappy | http://howardforums.com/showpost.php?p=9008322&postcount=6 < That has got to be the worse photoshop job I've ever seen |
| 19:21.31 | mheath | My measure of popularity: Today, in 2007, if they were starting from scratch, would developers still choose to write the thing in Cobol? |
| 19:21.39 | mheath | The answer is almost definitely going to be a No. |
| 19:21.51 | nick125_lappy | I don't think many people would say yes to that.. |
| 19:21.58 | mheath | (if they think thats unfair, think of Fortran - The answer to taht question for Fortran would still be Yes, for many things) |
| 19:22.04 | mheath | *if you think thats unfair |
| 19:40.05 | mheath | "If you don't like allegory (religious or otherwise), then steer clear of the Chronicles. While Lewis's beliefs are presented in a more complicated and subtle manner in his other fictional works, here the parallels to basic Christian beliefs are very obvious. Reportedly even Tolkien, one of Lewis's best pals, found the allegory annoying." |
| 19:40.36 | mheath | Why does the stupidly zealous political-correct mind of america tear apart a good book like that? |
| 19:44.34 | mheath | All these rediculous comparisons....Heh....Tolkien knew Lewis, therefore we should directly compare Narnia against Lord of The Rings! |
| 19:44.57 | mheath | Its this kind of stupidity is what made Disney's movie so horrible |
| 20:12.11 | emcnabb | findlay: ping |
| 20:12.26 | Tene | findlay: ping |
| 20:52.54 | Sargun | Can I ask all the married/non-single guys a slightly personal question in here? |
| 20:53.05 | Sargun | Why do you love your significant other? |
| 20:53.10 | mheath | ..... |
| 20:53.19 | Tene | To spite you. |
| 20:54.42 | mheath | Tene's response wins. |
| 20:58.38 | Tene | :D |
| 20:58.40 | Tene | mheath++ |
| 20:59.20 | mheath | ADD 1 TO TENE GIVING TENE. |
| 21:00.28 | mheath | Sorry, tene, you get your incrementation in Cobol. |
| 21:02.11 | Tene | Oh, that's fine with me. |
| 21:04.27 | mheath | I still never got any feedback on my Linux Compatability idea :( |
| 21:04.52 | elg | i find narnia a bit too allegorical for my tastes |
| 21:05.05 | elg | but that's just taste. |
| 21:05.27 | mheath | elg, It is not allegorical. |
| 21:05.32 | elg | what I don't get is how saying Tolkien found the allegory annoying is "directly comparing narnia against lotr" |
| 21:05.45 | emcnabb | ~lart elg |
| 21:05.45 | ibot | executes killall -KILL elg |
| 21:05.48 | elg | mheath: sure it is. not directly. not coherently. but definitely allegorical |
| 21:05.57 | elg | it's the noncoherentness of it that really gets me |
| 21:06.16 | elg | and I liked the movie, btw |
| 21:07.51 | elg | i get the impression from what I've read that tolkien didn't really like allegorizing. he was adamant that his books weren't allegories for current/recent events |
| 21:07.51 | elg | so naturally he might be inclined to not like reading allegories too |
| 21:07.51 | mheath | elg, to quote Lewis himself: |
| 21:08.05 | mheath | “If Aslan represented the immaterial Deity in the same way in which Giant Despair [a character in The Pilgrim's Progress] represents despair, he would be an allegorical figure. In reality, however, he is an invention giving an imaginary answer to the question, ‘What might Christ become like if there really were a world like Narnia, and He chose to be incarnate and die and rise again in that world as He actually has done in ours?’ |
| 21:08.05 | mheath | This is not allegory at all.” |
| 21:10.04 | mheath | elg, I did not enjoy Disney's movies because they are not, in my opinion, true to the spirit of the books. |
| 21:10.27 | mheath | I see amazon.com book reviews complaining that Lewis' writing leaves "too much to the imagination". |
| 21:10.35 | Tene | mheath: and he doesn't like the spirit of the books. |
| 21:11.20 | mheath | I think the movies are too high-budget, blow-you-away-with-our-special effects |
| 21:12.06 | mheath | Narnia is this amazing.....dream world. The perfect fantasy world. Good struggles frequently with evil, but always prevails. Talking animals. Kings, queens, Fawns..... |
| 21:13.17 | mheath | Narnia reads like some delightful story your parents would tell you for a bed time story |
| 21:13.52 | elg | mheath: a semantic quibble |
| 21:14.01 | elg | he's an author saying "it's not strict allegory" |
| 21:14.03 | elg | and he's right |
| 21:14.26 | mheath | It was not written as a christian childrens book. |
| 21:14.32 | mheath | And intelligent people don't care |
| 21:14.40 | elg | right, it was written as a fantasy book |
| 21:14.44 | mheath | for example, the Hebrew israeli translation of the book sold very well. |
| 21:15.11 | elg | but he let the allegorical (for lack of a better word) seep through |
| 21:15.32 | elg | he says it's not allegory, because it's not crafted allegory |
| 21:15.47 | mheath | What has to be so "OMG! He's trying to turn our kids into CHRISTIANS!" about a noble Lion who gives his own life to save friends? |
| 21:16.00 | elg | that doesn't mean aslan wasn't at some level related to the ideals of his beliefs |
| 21:16.03 | mheath | I mean, yes, its tied a lot to christianity, but why does this invoke those kind of feelings/statements in so many people? |
| 21:16.07 | elg | at a conscious level even |
| 21:16.19 | elg | right, it's not a proselyting book |
| 21:16.31 | mheath | I'm agnostic and liberal, and I don't understand why people have problems with this |
| 21:16.34 | elg | people are nuts. insecure, alarmist |
| 21:16.36 | elg | welcome to earth |
| 21:16.58 | mheath | I dunno. Narnia means a lot different things than it does to you, probably. |
| 21:17.19 | mheath | My mother died when I was very young, and some of the most vivid memories I have of her are her reading Narnia to me for a bed time story. We went through the whole series. |
| 21:17.24 | elg | sure, any good literature means different things to different people |
| 21:17.45 | mheath | My memories of Narnia is being a little kid, imagining this amazing fantasy world |
| 21:17.49 | elg | to me, it's a good story that i'd read to my kids but doesn't quite grip me as a reader |
| 21:17.58 | mheath | Then I see a movie like Disney and its like modern movies just kill imagination |
| 21:17.58 | elg | it's a children's book after all |
| 21:18.23 | elg | all I remember about narnia as a kid was being so confused by the book |
| 21:18.34 | elg | when I read it I didn't have the mythical vocabulary to make any sense of the creatures |
| 21:18.58 | mheath | What? |
| 21:19.15 | mheath | 90% of the creatures are normal animals (although talking) |
| 21:19.15 | elg | i had no clue what a fawn was |
| 21:19.22 | elg | we didn't have the internet to go look up things like that |
| 21:19.23 | mheath | The rest are all vividly explained when introduced |
| 21:19.41 | mheath | fawns, centaurs |
| 21:19.44 | mheath | You don |
| 21:19.54 | elg | you can vividly explain a fawn and still confuse a kid who's too young to have known what a fawn was already |
| 21:19.56 | mheath | You don't need to really know about them, anyway |
| 21:20.02 | mheath | (I still am not sure what a marsh-wiggle is) |
| 21:20.42 | elg | the whole thing felt then, and feels now, rather ad-hoc to me. |
| 21:21.21 | elg | the movie was good. movies aren't books and books aren't movies |
| 21:21.26 | mheath | I just hate people that repetively try to compare Narnia to Middle Earth |
| 21:21.47 | mheath | because, of course, Lewis and Tolkien new each other! So of course we HAVE to compare the two |
| 21:22.20 | elg | what's wrong with comparing them? people are free to compare things |
| 21:22.43 | elg | we're even required to compare things in silly english classes. endless papers comparing this short story to the other |
| 21:23.03 | mheath | elg: people forget to remember that Tolkien's world is a rediculusly overplanned parallel world..whereas Narnia is a beautiful childrens fantasy world. |
| 21:23.07 | elg | they're not the same, they're different. that's what makes comparing them worthwhile |
| 21:23.17 | mheath | Then they arrive at the conclusion that Narnia is inferior because it "leaves too much up to the imagination" |
| 21:23.43 | mheath | again, though |
| 21:23.51 | elg | comparison doesn't imply superiority or inferiority. only their evaluation based on their value system |
| 21:24.09 | elg | if they value something like tolkien wrote more, then what tolkien wrote was better in their esteem |
| 21:24.22 | elg | you don't have to hate them for their value system |
| 21:26.04 | mheath | I might set up an RFC standard and post it to a mailing list, try to get some feedback. |
| 21:27.44 | elg | tensai: ping |
| 21:28.09 | mheath | No one has anything to say, though? |
| 21:28.18 | mheath | Should I take that as "its an absolutely horrible idea"? |
| 21:28.33 | elg | i'm sure if someone thought that they would have spoken up |
| 21:28.48 | Tene | I'd more think that nobody is interested in it at all. |
| 21:29.08 | elg | it is the weekend, too |
| 21:29.23 | elg | most are out, and those that aren't are only half in |
| 21:30.00 | elg | like I'm trying to figure out some rather hairy statistical problems |
| 21:30.20 | Tene | And I'm trying to decide if I want to go out somewhere for lunch. |
| 21:30.38 | elg | and sargun is trying to decide if he loves her |
| 21:30.53 | dilvie | happy easter |
| 21:31.43 | Tene | And dilvie is trying to choose the best hat to wear while dancing. |
| 21:32.28 | Sargun | no, stupid school poem crap. |
| 21:33.02 | dilvie | mheath: if I thought it was a horrible idea, I'd shoot it down. |
| 21:33.16 | dilvie | I'm viscious like that. |
| 21:33.58 | mheath | Well, what do you think of it? :P |
| 21:34.10 | mheath | Sargun, I'll trade you. |
| 21:34.19 | elg | Sargun: in that case, I love my SO because she smells like roses |
| 21:34.38 | Sargun | Cool. |
| 21:34.50 | Sargun | elg, If you were here, I'd hug you |
| 21:34.59 | mheath | I'll write a Poem, you can prove the operation of over a dozen filters over and over again, using qualitive analysis. |
| 21:35.12 | mheath | Deal? |
| 21:36.38 | elg | -chat about my wife |
| 21:36.39 | brac | my wife as her joke was, both graphyx and falls over dead |
| 21:36.47 | elg | there, use that in your poem too |
| 21:37.09 | elg | -chat about his wife |
| 21:37.09 | brac | his wife is pouring gasoline on QBFreak and wonders what a crappy job :) |
| 21:39.07 | mheath | his wife is killing QBFreak |
| 21:39.10 | mheath | -chat about his wife |
| 21:39.11 | brac | his wife wanted him to come from Farmington Bay |
| 21:40.27 | tensai | elg: pong |
| 21:40.54 | elg | tensai: just curious about your project - how long is your wife gone? |
| 21:41.23 | tensai | elg: may 3rd or so |
| 21:41.32 | elg | yikes |
| 21:41.40 | elg | ~pity tensai |
| 21:41.50 | ibot | I pity da fool tensai! |
| 21:41.50 | elg | I thought it was a weekend thing |
| 21:41.56 | elg | so, I think I've figured out my oven plans |
| 21:42.00 | tensai | her mom had surgery and she's playing nurse |
| 21:42.11 | elg | I'm going to draw them up in qcad, but I need to know the exact size of a brick first |
| 21:42.17 | tensai | which is funny because her mom *is* a nurse |
| 21:42.19 | elg | you don't have any bricks handy do you? |
| 21:42.33 | tensai | actually yes |
| 21:43.19 | elg | a real brick? not a patio brick or something? |
| 21:45.23 | tensai | a brick left over from when they redid my chimney |
| 21:45.31 | elg | sounds perfect |
| 21:45.46 | tensai | I've only got like 10, so not enough for my oven |
| 21:46.17 | tensai | and just for you, I'll give you measurements in metric :D |
| 21:46.23 | elg | sweet |
| 21:46.58 | tensai | 19x8.5x5.5 |
| 21:47.04 | elg | cm? |
| 21:47.19 | tensai | yessir |
| 21:47.58 | tensai | my physics professor would be outraged to see me quote numbers without units |
| 21:48.03 | elg | just for kicks, can you give inches too? |
| 21:48.12 | elg | then I can estimate the error ;-) |
| 21:48.21 | mheath | tensai, I'd get in military trouble for quoting numbers without units =P |
| 21:48.54 | tensai | 7.5x3.5x2.25 |
| 21:49.34 | tensai | I notice that the brick is rather irregular, some places varying by .25cm |
| 21:50.37 | tensai | elg: would you like it's mass as well? |
| 21:51.01 | tensai | s/it's/its/ |
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| 21:53.32 | elg | tensai: might it be 7 5/8? |
| 21:54.41 | tensai | elg: it's definitely 7 1/2 |
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| 21:59.08 | elg | hm, ok |
| 22:00.13 | tensai | well, maybe. it's got ridges on it. maybe those could add a 1/16 inch |
| 22:00.55 | elg | from my googling there's two brick sizes that seem like they might be standard sizes |
| 22:01.20 | elg | 7 5/8"x3 5/8"x2 1/4" is "modular" |
| 22:01.31 | elg | and then 8"x3 5/8"x2 1/4" is "standard" |
| 22:02.29 | tensai | so standard is just a bit longer |
| 22:03.04 | elg | yeah. I think they're both meant to be 8", but one is meant to be 8" with mortar and the other is 8" by itself |
| 22:03.16 | elg | looks like 3/8" is a common mortar width |
| 22:03.31 | elg | that 2.25 is a hair annoying though |
| 22:03.52 | elg | 2.25 isn't all that convenient. and 2.625 is even less so |
| 22:04.05 | tensai | maybe you could get the industry to change |
| 22:04.31 | elg | :) |
| 22:04.38 | elg | all in the name of cheap brick ovens! |
| 22:06.23 | elg | ok, I found a book "Masonry and Concrete" on google books that puts it to rest. "modular" is so called because it's, well, modular. 4" is the module size, and a brick is 4"x8" with mortar |
| 22:06.37 | elg | ah, and 3 bricks one on top of the other (with mortar) is also 8" |
| 22:08.23 | elg | I think my design can be built for <$60 |
| 22:08.46 | elg | and big enough for medium pizza and any two sensible sized loaves |
| 22:08.58 | elg | well, not at the same time |
| 22:09.36 | tensai | what, no world record size pizza? |
| 22:10.27 | elg | 14" door |
| 22:10.49 | elg | big enough for my peel with 2" to spare |
| 22:11.17 | elg | though I'd better check. all of a sudden I'm thinking my peel is larger than 12" |
| 22:44.18 | mheath | haha, I love Orson Scott Card |
| 22:44.48 | mheath | He was discussing a concept for a new enders game book, and asked people for title suggestions. The suggestions are often really quite funny |
| 22:45.22 | mheath | Card himself suggests: "The Mask of Ender (he goes around slashing giant W's into people's clothing and upholstery)" |
| 22:45.58 | mheath | (this is a old post, though still active) |
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| 23:00.04 | ScytheBlade1 | mheath, http://xkcd.com/c241.html |
| 23:00.05 | brac | [xkcd - A webcomic of romance, sarcasm, math, and language - By Randall Munroe] |
| 23:00.31 | mheath | haha |
| 23:00.40 | ScytheBlade1 | Check out the alt text. |
| 23:00.44 | mheath | I can't believe Ender's Game is on the MCPON's reading list :) |
| 23:01.53 | mheath | As being a book to develop critical thinking |
| 23:02.08 | mheath | I think thats amazing the book ended up on that list (not that its undeserving, just surprising) |
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