| 00:01.44 | mheath | macnewbold, What? |
| 00:01.54 | mheath | Not quite turing complete seems like a very bad thing |
| 00:02.15 | macnewbold | not necessarily |
| 00:02.20 | macnewbold | automatons are still useful |
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| 00:02.35 | mheath | Those are automatons, not computers. |
| 00:02.42 | mheath | Computers need to be turing complete |
| 00:02.56 | mheath | If a computer is not turing complete, doesnt that basically mean its missing some fundamental mathematical capability? |
| 00:06.59 | findlay | mheath: Turing completeness requires infinite resources |
| 00:08.00 | findlay | in fact it's difficult to have a computer that doesn't converge on Turing completeness if you let the resources --> \infty |
| 00:08.08 | mheath | findlay, well, literal turing completeness is not possible, obviously. |
| 00:08.18 | mheath | But I don't think he was reffering to the inifite-resource problem |
| 00:09.03 | mheath | I usually see Turing completeness used in reference to systems that wuold be turing complete without the infinite storage limitations. |
| 00:23.08 | levi_home | Lone_Wanderer: In what context did you see 'Turing incomplete'? |
| 00:23.33 | levi_home | Lone_Wanderer: Turing completeness has somewhat different meanings in different contexts. |
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| 00:25.42 | levi_home | A Turing complete problem would be unsolvable on any machine less powerful than a Turing machine. |
| 00:26.53 | levi_home | A Turing complete machine would be capable of solving any computable problem. |
| 00:28.40 | levi_home | A problem that is not Turing-complete could be solved with an automaton less powerful than a Turing machine, e.g. a finite state automaton, push-down automaton, etc. |
| 00:28.53 | levi_home | A machine/language that is not Turing complete would only be able to solve a subset of computable problems. |
| 00:30.16 | levi_home | There are some advantages to non-Turing complete languages; they can make useful domain-specific languages when the domain is well-understood and you don't want the complexity of a Turing-complete language. |
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| 00:44.39 | findlay | levi_home: what do you mean by Turing-complete complexity? |
| 00:45.24 | levi_home | findlay: I didn't say Turing-complete complexity. |
| 00:45.56 | findlay | you implied it |
| 00:46.11 | findlay | "the complexity of a Turing-complete language" |
| 00:47.02 | levi_home | Ahh. |
| 00:48.31 | levi_home | Well, consider the complexity of documents written in Perl vs HTML. I don't mean formal complexity theory, I mean regular run-of-the-mill complexity. |
| 00:48.34 | findlay | I didn't think Turing-completeness meant complexity |
| 00:49.28 | findlay | I don't have a very good understanding of colloquial complexity |
| 00:49.36 | levi_home | The expressiveness goes up, so the number of possible documents goes up and the things you can prove about them goes down. |
| 00:49.45 | findlay | ok |
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| 00:51.19 | levi_home | Lone_Wanderer: Did you see the stuff I wrote about Turing completeness? |
| 00:51.47 | levi_home | Anyhow, I must go home now. Actually, back to work. |
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| 01:08.24 | findlay | ~date |
| 01:08.45 | ibot | It is now 2007.04.06 1:08:45 GMT |
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| 02:35.56 | elg | mheath: your ideas about grad school are wrong. have fun believing them |
| 02:36.13 | mheath | OK? |
| 02:36.40 | mheath | So, grad school is a 100% fun process. Everything you do is practical and legitimate; nothing is a waste of time,and there are no hoops to jump through? |
| 02:37.01 | elg | dude, you are in hoopjump central |
| 02:37.04 | vontrapp | and your ideas about 'civilian college' are wrong |
| 02:37.07 | elg | they say jump and you say how hoop |
| 02:37.23 | elg | grad school is very independent. no, not 100% fun, nothing in life is |
| 02:38.00 | atoponce | i want a refund then |
| 02:38.07 | vontrapp | it's certainly not 100% jump through hoops |
| 02:38.22 | elg | yes you sometimes have to find funding, whether in grad school or especially after. That's not hoop jumping, that's the real world |
| 02:38.34 | elg | people don't just hand out funding randomly. so you have to write grants |
| 02:38.52 | elg | knowledge doesn't just make itself up and disseminate itself all on its own, so you have to write and read papers |
| 02:39.23 | atoponce | you mean the dictionary wasn't caused by an explosion in a book factory? |
| 02:39.40 | vontrapp | no, it was monkeys |
| 02:40.06 | atoponce | ahh. i see |
| 02:40.17 | elg | you have not even one semeseter of nontraditional schooling under your belt. You can't possibly comprehend what grad school is or isn't, unless perhaps your dad or mom was a professor |
| 02:40.43 | elg | or at least you read all the backlogs of PhD (phdcomics.com) |
| 02:40.48 | elg | ;-) |
| 02:41.39 | mheath | elg, as far as what we've covered, I've covered well over what would be covered in one semester at a traditional university :) |
| 02:41.48 | elg | sure |
| 02:42.23 | elg | ~steal vontrapp's mpg |
| 02:42.33 | ibot | ACTION grabs vontrapp's mpg and gives it to elg |
| 02:42.33 | vontrapp | you've also jumped through hoops |
| 02:42.34 | mheath | vontrapp, I didn't say I hadn't. |
| 02:42.38 | elg | more hoops probably than an entire traditional university |
| 02:42.40 | brac | more hoops probably than an emotionally charged argument/image, I agree with you and advantage ("the enemy's gate is down") |
| 02:42.54 | vontrapp | elg: why? i would think you get more anyway |
| 02:43.18 | mheath | elg, No. |
| 02:43.20 | elg | vontrapp: I'm confused |
| 02:43.23 | mheath | I just follow instructions |
| 02:43.32 | elg | mheath: every instruction is a hoop |
| 02:43.32 | mheath | I don't have to jump through hoops in the process of doing so, usually. |
| 02:43.35 | vontrapp | elg: what do you get? |
| 02:44.00 | elg | vontrapp: nothing, including that last sentence |
| 02:44.01 | elg | :) |
| 02:44.35 | vontrapp | oh, /me forgot elg was context free |
| 02:44.46 | vontrapp | what mpg do you get? |
| 02:45.11 | elg | looks like I get yours. ibot gave it to me :) |
| 02:45.12 | atoponce | 38 |
| 02:45.32 | elg | I don't know. 25ish IIRC |
| 02:45.42 | vontrapp | see, better |
| 02:45.57 | atoponce | my corolla is supposed to bet getting 42 |
| 02:46.01 | atoponce | or so the sticker said |
| 02:46.05 | vontrapp | -lart valentines balloons |
| 02:46.12 | atoponce | stupid sticker |
| 02:46.32 | vontrapp | atoponce has a betting problem, aparently |
| 02:47.08 | elg | between 20 and 30 |
| 02:47.27 | elg | 800 mile trip to utah, we fill up twice. I don't remember how much was left in the tank. our tank is about 13 gallons |
| 02:48.04 | atoponce | nice |
| 02:48.05 | vontrapp | i get 29 on freeways |
| 02:48.11 | elg | mheath: you say grad school is hoopy. I'm in grad school I say it isn't. I say military is hoopy. You're in the military and say it isn't. We'll just have to agree to not believe eachother |
| 02:48.29 | atoponce | went from ogden to evanston on a single tank |
| 02:48.49 | atoponce | could've made it to denver, as i had 3 gallons still to go, but decided not to risk it |
| 02:49.44 | elg | mheath: anyway, if you can go to school without delay when you get home, you'll be happier. Working at a bank will be dreadfully boring if you have enjoyed the intellectual stimulation of the intense program |
| 02:50.12 | elg | they have roads there? |
| 02:50.15 | mheath | elg, I don't want to start college right away |
| 02:50.20 | mheath | I got moved up a grade in highschool |
| 02:50.30 | elg | so... |
| 02:50.37 | mheath | Everyone who I was supposed to originally graduate with will be starting college at the same time |
| 02:50.40 | mheath | I'll see them all |
| 02:50.43 | vontrapp | 335 miles |
| 02:51.03 | mheath | I can't directly phase the fact that basically everyting I've done in the last year of my life has been a complete waste, in the longterm view. |
| 02:51.06 | elg | so... |
| 02:51.10 | mheath | *directly face |
| 02:51.32 | elg | that's understandable. the answer isn't to waste another year, imho |
| 02:51.37 | atoponce | wait |
| 02:51.41 | atoponce | not evanston |
| 02:51.44 | atoponce | that's not far... |
| 02:52.03 | atoponce | cheyenne!!! |
| 02:52.05 | atoponce | duh |
| 02:52.09 | atoponce | :) |
| 02:52.16 | vontrapp | mheath: i would say not a waste at all |
| 02:52.20 | mheath | my physical therapy went horribly too |
| 02:52.40 | levi_home | mheath: Nothing in your past has to be considered a waste. |
| 02:52.47 | vontrapp | there's plenty you have learned and could learn from your experiences |
| 02:52.49 | mheath | He ended up cutting half of the stuff I was supposed to do today, because I was in pain, and he said it would just irritate the knee more :( |
| 02:53.00 | levi_home | mheath: It seems to me like it was something you had to try to do, at least. |
| 02:53.29 | mheath | vontrapp, heh, I didn't know. If I learned from my experience, I wouldn't have tried to join the military again :-P |
| 02:53.34 | elg | just to be clear, I don't say it's been a waste, but if you feel it has and have a hard time facing it, that's what I say is understandable. |
| 02:53.36 | atoponce | 427 miles |
| 02:53.48 | mheath | Anyway, time for sleep. I have to muster at 5:00AM tomorrow, and it's 11PM here. |
| 02:53.51 | vontrapp | now if you want some real hoops, go serve a mission :) |
| 02:54.00 | levi_home | vontrapp: No kidding. |
| 02:54.04 | atoponce | heh |
| 02:54.11 | levi_home | mheath: G'night. |
| 02:54.17 | atoponce | grab your ankles. time for you shots |
| 02:54.27 | atoponce | s/u /ur / |
| 02:55.05 | elg | my prof has been promising to post the first of two major programming assignments in this class for a month now, no exaggeration |
| 02:55.05 | atoponce | now cough |
| 02:55.31 | elg | our third homework is due monday. this class is killing me of boredom |
| 02:55.35 | vontrapp | *hack* |
| 02:55.37 | levi_home | elg: Heh. What class? |
| 02:55.46 | elg | he's all concerned that people aren't getting it. we did abysmally on the midterm |
| 02:56.19 | elg | I said "I find I learn best when I can put what I'm learning to use, especially when programming" |
| 02:56.31 | elg | I don't know if he got the hint. He looked at me like he didn't believe me |
| 02:56.39 | elg | it's that modeling and simulation class |
| 02:56.51 | levi_home | Ahh. |
| 02:56.51 | elg | we've been doing probability stuff. random variable generation, etc. |
| 02:57.07 | elg | very interesting stuff. I wish he'd just post it so we can do it and cement the knowledge |
| 02:57.29 | levi_home | Sounds like it could be an interesting class. I used a commercial network modelling/simulation tool in a networking class, and it was pretty nifty. |
| 02:58.19 | elg | yeah |
| 02:58.26 | elg | he's told us the gist. we're going to model cows |
| 02:58.45 | vontrapp | physics cows? |
| 02:58.46 | elg | based on real research going on in the ag dept |
| 02:58.53 | levi_home | Cows? Hmm. |
| 02:59.02 | elg | cows with virtual fences |
| 02:59.12 | levi_home | Sounds a little bit less interesting than networks, but I guess it could be fun. :) |
| 02:59.16 | elg | like those dog collar virtual fences |
| 02:59.40 | vontrapp | elg: aparently you've never been to idaho, I15 goes right through pocatello |
| 02:59.43 | elg | we model cow movement as brownian motion, but the virtual fences move around and we see how the cows drift too |
| 03:00.25 | vontrapp | so they're brown cows |
| 03:00.30 | elg | I don't see what's interesting to try and learn about the cows' motion, but it sounds like something they've modelled to figure out some aspect of how it would work |
| 03:00.40 | vontrapp | but are they perfect spheres? |
| 03:01.05 | elg | it's about the right size project, anyway, for the class. and I like it because it is directly applicable to starflag |
| 03:01.13 | elg | a game lukfugl, vontrapp, and I keep talking about writing |
| 03:01.19 | vontrapp | yay! |
| 03:01.24 | levi_home | What kind of game is starflag? |
| 03:01.35 | levi_home | bzflag in space? :) |
| 03:01.37 | elg | think bzflag meets ender's game |
| 03:01.39 | vontrapp | bzflag-like |
| 03:01.49 | elg | but mostly for AI agents |
| 03:01.59 | elg | though we won't stop anyone from writing a human UI |
| 03:02.24 | vontrapp | what better ai agent can you get than a human? |
| 03:02.31 | elg | a dolphin |
| 03:02.50 | elg | esp. since dolphins are practiced in maneouvering in 3d |
| 03:02.52 | vontrapp | they're too busy singing abeut fish |
| 03:03.06 | atoponce | wait a minute. today is thurs? holy crap! where did the week go? |
| 03:03.48 | vontrapp | my tooth hurts |
| 03:04.00 | vontrapp | -lart dentists |
| 03:04.40 | ScytheBlade1 | Could be worse |
| 03:04.45 | elg | no school tomorrow |
| 03:04.46 | vontrapp | -lart dentists |
| 03:04.49 | ScytheBlade1 | I believe I get to have, at a minimum, two wisdom teeth out soon |
| 03:04.50 | elg | "spring holiday" |
| 03:04.59 | vontrapp | ScytheBlade1: you were right |
| 03:05.09 | ScytheBlade1 | Sadly |
| 03:05.49 | vontrapp | *darn |
| 03:06.23 | vontrapp | what do they do for a cracked tooth, anyway? |
| 03:06.56 | elg | superglue |
| 03:07.53 | vontrapp | hmm, as long as it doesn't involve novocaine, drills, and excessive pain when the novocaine wears off |
| 03:10.32 | ScytheBlade1 | What's really fun, is that at least one of these wisdom teeth is about 3/4 of the way in |
| 03:11.04 | ScytheBlade1 | I give it less than a week before it's all the way in |
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| 03:20.41 | vontrapp | ~wisdom ScytheBlade1 |
| 03:21.11 | ScytheBlade1 | ~pain ScytheBlade1 |
| 03:21.37 | elg | so do you feel wiser? |
| 03:23.27 | ScytheBlade1 | Not at all |
| 03:23.35 | ScytheBlade1 | Give me a few weeks though, and ask if I'm in any more pain |
| 03:23.42 | ScytheBlade1 | That answer will predictably be yes |
| 03:34.07 | vontrapp | ?? another tzdata update? |
| 03:34.09 | UtahBot | another[x]: No defenition found for word. |
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| 09:30.49 | mheath | ~morning |
| 09:30.59 | ibot | Good morning! |
| 09:31.12 | mheath | Good morning, ibot! |
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| 11:27.26 | tristanbob_ | I am so happy, LinuxJournal is finally resonable price! |
| 11:27.52 | tristanbob_ | 24 print issues of Linux Journal for $45 USD (LOW RATE of $1.88 an issue) |
| 11:28.05 | tristanbob_ | It costs like $15 dollars at Hastings |
| 11:28.09 | tristanbob_ | per issue! |
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| 14:55.47 | goozbach | good morning |
| 15:03.54 | findlay | hello |
| 15:04.49 | jsmith | goozbach: How are the ribs coming along? |
| 15:08.32 | herlo | jsmith: what happened? |
| 15:09.08 | jsmith | herlo: To make a long story short, I thought I sprained my ankle on Saturday |
| 15:09.16 | jsmith | herlo: Only, turns out its getting worse instead of better |
| 15:09.26 | findlay | jsmith: that's not good |
| 15:09.55 | jsmith | findlay: It's been broken before, it'll be broken again... not fun, but not a big deal either |
| 15:10.01 | findlay | heh |
| 15:10.11 | jsmith | Still doesn't beat goozbach's broken ribs |
| 15:10.44 | findlay | getgoozbachsribspid() |
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| 15:17.43 | findlay | ~chat |
| 15:17.47 | findlay | -chat |
| 15:17.47 | brac | there was also developed by the time you stayed on my spark plugs, too. |
| 15:18.04 | findlay | indeed, that was a fine time |
| 15:18.45 | *** join/#utah sjansen (n=sjansen@66.60.228.131) |
| 15:19.31 | sjansen | ~rlart |
| 15:19.34 | ibot | pours gasoline all over vontrapp, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze |
| 15:19.34 | findlay | -chat about sjansen is |
| 15:19.34 | brac | sjansen is currently on #utah. Has said a total redesign, however, the minor may choose to visit when I'm working for anyone else? |
| 15:20.18 | jsmith | -chat about findlay is |
| 15:20.18 | brac | findlay is getting eaten. |
| 15:20.29 | lukfugl | lol |
| 15:20.41 | jsmith | -chat about on Friday |
| 15:20.42 | brac | on Friday nights practicing spelling |
| 15:20.52 | Lone_Wanderer | levi: I did see them yes. |
| 15:20.57 | Lone_Wanderer | Just now. |
| 15:22.21 | goozbach | jsmith: it's feeling better, except when I sneeze |
| 15:22.33 | goozbach | which I happen to do at least once a day |
| 15:22.50 | jsmith | Just remember to take a deep breath every once in a while, to avoid other problems |
| 15:25.43 | tensai | goozbach: stop snorting pepper |
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| 15:30.23 | Lone_Wanderer | -chat about on Friday |
| 15:30.23 | brac | on Friday :-D |
| 15:30.29 | Lone_Wanderer | -chat about Friday is |
| 15:30.29 | brac | Friday is good. But the good news for me |
| 15:30.36 | Lone_Wanderer | -chat about Friday parties |
| 15:30.37 | brac | Friday parties |
| 15:30.39 | Lone_Wanderer | :( |
| 15:30.58 | findlay | ~party Lone_Wanderer |
| 15:31.10 | Lone_Wanderer | So I found out why Starbucks chai is so good. |
| 15:31.14 | Lone_Wanderer | They make it with whole milk. |
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| 15:37.34 | tensai | speaking of milk, I need to start home delivery |
| 15:38.23 | Lone_Wanderer | home delivery of milk? I didn't know anyone still did that |
| 15:39.46 | tensai | http://www.reedsdairy.com/ |
| 15:39.47 | brac | [Reed's Dairy - Dairy Home Delivery and Store in Idaho Falls, ID] |
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| 15:48.08 | Supaplex | it's a little far away from utah. *yawn* |
| 15:48.44 | jsmith | Supaplex: Winders dairy in SLC delivers |
| 15:49.13 | beandog | wtc |
| 15:49.18 | beandog | that is an *awesome* cow image. |
| 15:50.11 | lukfugl | that website broke my firefox |
| 15:50.30 | tensai | lukfugl: yes! mission accomplished |
| 15:50.59 | Supaplex | home delivery is cool and all, but a gallon lasts me atleast a week. half the time the last 2-3 cups spoil. (it's cheaper to just let it spoil peradvaneture, than buy smaller units) |
| 15:51.34 | Jayce^ | tensai, scary thing, my mom worked at that dairy when she was a teenager.. |
| 15:51.44 | tensai | Supaplex: kids drink milk like there's no tomorrow. we go through 3 gallons a week with 2 boys. |
| 15:51.59 | Jayce^ | ~5 a week in my family |
| 15:52.14 | Supaplex | I know. I use to be one of those milk guzziling boys. :) |
| 15:52.33 | Jayce^ | Back in college I averaged a gallon a day :) |
| 15:52.36 | tensai | I would drink a lot more if it weren't so expensive |
| 15:52.39 | Supaplex | hehe ditto |
| 15:53.03 | lukfugl | my wife and I are guzzlers too, we go through 2-3 gallons a week just the two of us |
| 15:53.10 | Jayce^ | beandog, you're in slc, just get winder.. |
| 15:53.31 | Supaplex | what's the cost difference anyhow? |
| 15:54.09 | beandog | winder? |
| 15:54.12 | beandog | whats winder |
| 15:54.13 | beandog | ~noob |
| 15:54.14 | ibot | just what someone is before they're a pro |
| 15:54.35 | Jayce^ | winder dairy.. just google it |
| 15:54.44 | *** join/#utah mrpull (n=mrpull@205.158.184.126.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 15:54.48 | beandog | heh |
| 15:54.54 | beandog | I love sites that get stuck in a loop when cookies are turned off |
| 15:54.55 | beandog | :D |
| 15:55.20 | findlay | silly cookies |
| 15:55.43 | beandog | and milk! |
| 15:55.55 | findlay | heh |
| 15:55.57 | beandog | ooh, home delivery? |
| 15:56.01 | beandog | Jayce^++ |
| 15:56.05 | Jayce^ | yup |
| 15:56.19 | Supaplex | a soggy browser will surely cause other problems. |
| 15:56.41 | findlay | surely |
| 15:59.29 | beandog | So who wants $30 for referring me? :D |
| 16:01.18 | graphyx | I want it, but I am not currently a customer, I just happen to like free money |
| 16:01.53 | Jayce^ | beandog, sorry not with them any more.. |
| 16:03.10 | *** join/#utah harleypig (n=harleypi@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 16:03.44 | fungus | college is supposed to be a beer guzzling time, not milk. |
| 16:04.20 | findlay | heh |
| 16:04.41 | Jayce^ | *knew* I did something wrong.... :) |
| 16:04.53 | jsmith | fungus: You obviously didn't have a milk-drinking contest in college |
| 16:05.07 | jsmith | fungus: Ever seen anyone throw up a half-gallon of milk? |
| 16:05.41 | fungus | no, but I have woken up to several people passed out on the floor in puddles of vomit. |
| 16:06.31 | fungus | You can't call it a party unless there is vomit. :) |
| 16:07.04 | Supaplex | your favorite side dish? |
| 16:08.22 | fungus | By that definition, milk vomit can mean it was a party. |
| 16:10.07 | Supaplex | I'll save some for you next time that happens. |
| 16:11.18 | findlay | make sure you freeze it immediately |
| 16:17.56 | *** join/#utah dilvie (n=chatzill@c-67-169-243-184.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 16:21.23 | Supaplex | sup dilvie dilvie dilvie |
| 16:21.53 | dilvie | sup supa supa supa |
| 16:22.19 | dilvie | not much |
| 16:22.23 | dilvie | just crawled out of bed |
| 16:22.46 | Supaplex | thinking of breakfast... just too lazy to wash a clean dish. |
| 16:25.36 | herlo | jsmith: sorry to hear about your ankle |
| 16:26.18 | jsmith | herlo: It's not a big deal... it's just pain |
| 16:26.31 | herlo | but not good pain... :-P |
| 16:27.06 | jsmith | That which does not kill us only makes us stronger, right? |
| 16:27.14 | jsmith | (or only makes us crippled, one or the other) |
| 16:27.44 | Supaplex | it wears us down, so we must be stronger because we're not dead. |
| 16:28.11 | Supaplex | you'll heal. right? :) that's the good part. |
| 16:31.17 | jsmith | Exactly... |
| 16:52.21 | Lone_Wanderer | here, let me also blind you and cut out your tongue. |
| 16:52.31 | Lone_Wanderer | There you go. Still alive, but stronger than ever! |
| 16:52.42 | Lone_Wanderer | (That saying is one of my biggest pet peeves :p) |
| 17:03.27 | goozbach | "strenght" does not always mean phyiscal strenght |
| 17:04.46 | jsmith | goozbach: Yeah... character is what you get when you didn't get what you wanted in the first place |
| 17:06.48 | redbeard1 | Jayce^: why are you walking funny? |
| 17:06.52 | dataw0lf | yes, either stronger, or a bad case of PTSD |
| 17:08.00 | lukfugl | redbeard1: that comic is soooo me |
| 17:08.12 | lukfugl | both the actual strip, and the alt text |
| 17:09.00 | goozbach | ok so I'm not happy with this consultant they've hired |
| 17:09.15 | Jayce^ | yeah, that's me too lukfugl |
| 17:09.29 | goozbach | "Red Hat isn't stable. You would be better served using Gentoo, or Slackware" |
| 17:09.34 | goozbach | WTF?! |
| 17:10.18 | goozbach | of all the things I've heard Red Hat called, "Unstable" isn't one of them |
| 17:13.29 | maquis | goozbach: redhat is less stable than gentoo or slack? |
| 17:15.50 | jsmith | goozbach: Uh... ask the guy how many Gentoo servers he has running... I'd bet dollars to doughnuts he's got less than 10 |
| 17:16.35 | redbeard1 | how does one bet dollars to doughnuts? |
| 17:17.00 | dataw0lf | ... |
| 17:17.02 | Supaplex | Lone_Wanderer: yea, that's why I said it that way :) |
| 17:17.10 | dataw0lf | how can anyone advocating Gentoo say anything about 'stable' ? |
| 17:17.28 | Supaplex | Lone_Wanderer: It needed a </troll> tag or something anyway. |
| 17:17.33 | vontrapp | what strip? |
| 17:17.38 | dataw0lf | I usually expect them to say something like "omgz faster, lol' |
| 17:17.40 | Supaplex | gentoo is stable. |
| 17:17.43 | jsmith | redbeard1: If I lose the bet, I owe real money. If I win the bet, he owes me doughnuts |
| 17:17.45 | Supaplex | when the machine is off. |
| 17:17.48 | Supaplex | HA |
| 17:17.54 | beandog | :b |
| 17:17.54 | jsmith | redbeard1: But it's a figure of speech |
| 17:18.28 | goozbach | stupid state |
| 17:18.35 | jsmith | goozbach: Why didn't you? |
| 17:18.35 | goozbach | stupid government |
| 17:18.35 | Lone_Wanderer | Supaplex: I kind of figured you were trolling :) |
| 17:18.46 | goozbach | jsmith: you're not on state contract |
| 17:18.56 | jsmith | goozbach: It's a good thing we don't get all the gov't. we pay for. |
| 17:18.58 | goozbach | and they didn't want to pay for you |
| 17:19.00 | brac | and they totally bombed, so they might not be a kerberos extension then as kerberos is based upon that whole no monthly fee thing is getting old and fat? |
| 17:19.11 | jsmith | goozbach: I won't ask who the contractor is |
| 17:19.23 | jsmith | goozbach: I might run into him some day |
| 17:19.42 | goozbach | they're getting away with paying HALF of the number you told me |
| 17:19.58 | goozbach | and as far as I can tell, he's worth every penny |
| 17:20.01 | goozbach | :) |
| 17:20.10 | jsmith | Well, for the right job, I *might* have been able to come down some |
| 17:20.21 | jsmith | But, alas, things are what they are |
| 17:20.21 | goozbach | half? |
| 17:20.29 | jsmith | goozbach: Doubt it |
| 17:20.32 | goozbach | for just 40 hours |
| 17:20.37 | jsmith | Nope |
| 17:20.44 | goozbach | didn't want to bother you |
| 17:21.05 | jsmith | Reminds me of when a certain Utah-county company was trying to get the business of a large internet company. |
| 17:21.27 | jsmith | the Utah-county-company's competitor offered to do it for half the price |
| 17:22.18 | goozbach | I'm glad that I'm no longer the project lead on this thing |
| 17:22.23 | jsmith | The large internet company came back and said "We'd rather pay twice as much rather than deal with you" |
| 17:22.39 | goozbach | it's going to H E double hockey sticks in a handbasket |
| 17:22.41 | jsmith | vontrapp: Stop slobbering |
| 17:22.56 | jsmith | goozbach: Let me know when I can swoop in and pick up the pieces ;-) |
| 17:23.01 | sontek | Jayce^: ping |
| 17:23.07 | Jayce^ | pong |
| 17:23.12 | goozbach | jsmith: methinks I'll just pack up and head for ATL |
| 17:23.22 | goozbach | leave em to pick up the pieces themselves |
| 17:23.29 | sontek | Jayce^: Do you know if authorize.net has a webservice for figuring out what their current conversion rate is going to be? |
| 17:23.31 | goozbach | </spite> |
| 17:23.39 | jsmith | goozbach: What's in ATL? |
| 17:23.52 | jsmith | goozbach: (besides the AstriDevCon meeting in May) |
| 17:23.57 | Jayce^ | no, that would be your bank, not your merchant account |
| 17:24.06 | tensai | ~wiki atlatl |
| 17:24.07 | vontrapp | i came home and tried to swish out my mouth, my lip was unable to cantain the water, and it squirted straight up my nose |
| 17:24.27 | goozbach | jsmith: her name is Charity |
| 17:24.48 | jsmith | goozbach: I see... |
| 17:24.49 | tensai | jsmith: an atlatl is a spear type throwing device from native americans. clearly ATL is half of one. |
| 17:25.16 | goozbach | and it's just big enough that I'll be able to finds gobs of contract work |
| 17:25.23 | tensai | I guess it's more of a slingshot-style than spear |
| 17:25.59 | goozbach | tensai: it's more like a clay pidgen thrower than a slingshot |
| 17:26.02 | goozbach | :) |
| 17:27.27 | vontrapp | how would one go about making a png overlay for a graph? like the line that goes up and down |
| 17:28.04 | vontrapp | dynamic, of course |
| 17:28.13 | tensai | vontrapp: would a magic marker work? |
| 17:28.26 | sontek | Jayce^: So there is no _real_ way to validate what the conversion rate is going to be? |
| 17:28.41 | vontrapp | before i added the dynamic requirement, maybe |
| 17:28.48 | sontek | Jayce^: we deal with a lot of foreign markets but we are currently just charging everyone in USD and some of our clients want to be able to do it in their local currency |
| 17:28.57 | sontek | Jayce^: but we don't want to have to guess on what the rate is going to be |
| 17:28.57 | vontrapp | ouch, feeling returning |
| 17:29.46 | harleypig | Space monkey's are eating my brain. |
| 17:33.21 | tensai | those space monkeys are gonna get hungry |
| 17:33.36 | tensai | probably starve to death |
| 17:35.03 | Jayce^ | sontek, that's the problem, different banks charge their own conversion rates |
| 17:35.37 | Jayce^ | and often have some fee's associated that you will never know/see |
| 17:38.02 | redbeard1 | ~lart new banking security |
| 17:38.02 | ibot | steals new banking security's mojo |
| 17:39.51 | *** join/#utah linuxalien (i=UNKNOWN@oalug/member/linuxalien) |
| 17:39.57 | linuxalien | Hi guys |
| 17:40.11 | thaddeusq | ooooh an alien |
| 17:40.18 | thaddeusq | I'm scared of aliens |
| 17:40.45 | linuxalien | We're your friends! |
| 17:40.53 | sontek | Jayce^: so would the best practice be "We are going to charge you approx 1232" :P |
| 17:41.07 | thaddeusq | Yeah. That's what you say now and then the probing starts. |
| 17:41.19 | linuxalien | It's all in good fun |
| 17:41.45 | Jayce^ | sontek, just state the price in USD, and then you are best.. |
| 17:41.57 | Jayce^ | or, if get foreign accounts, so there is no switch |
| 17:47.54 | *** join/#utah cworth (n=cworth@c-67-160-161-141.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 17:53.08 | linuxalien | hahaha |
| 17:53.13 | linuxalien | Doh, my break is almost over |
| 17:55.14 | linuxalien | Well, see you guys later |
| 17:55.24 | linuxalien | Remember, pain is temporary but fun is forever! |
| 17:59.04 | *** join/#utah calvarez (n=Hhhhh@lawn-143-215-204-146.lawn.gatech.edu) |
| 17:59.04 | atoponce | ln |
| 17:59.31 | atoponce | heh. the only complaint about dvorak, is the fact that l is under the right pinky on the top row |
| 17:59.49 | atoponce | so, /n becomes ln sometimes, i guess |
| 18:00.06 | vontrapp | man, this ruby svg lib sucks |
| 18:00.21 | atoponce | and ls is a bit annoying in *nix |
| 18:00.34 | atoponce | meh. oh well |
| 18:01.49 | vontrapp | there are other things that are annoying in qwerty, but you get used to them |
| 18:02.26 | atoponce | yeah |
| 18:02.43 | vontrapp | me is waiting to get used to ls |
| 18:02.45 | atoponce | the location of the letter l would be my only complaint |
| 18:03.23 | vontrapp | yeah, i guess i'm still waiting to get used to l in ls or otherwise |
| 18:03.24 | atoponce | other than that, i'm pretty satisfied with dvorak |
| 18:06.06 | atoponce | yeah |
| 18:06.09 | atoponce | been there, done that |
| 18:06.17 | atoponce | the switching between layouts is just hindering |
| 18:06.23 | atoponce | just do it |
| 18:06.54 | vontrapp | that's why i rearranged my keyboard, to help force me to stick with it :) |
| 18:07.30 | atoponce | ah. but, now you're dependant on looking at your fingers, i suppose/ |
| 18:07.33 | atoponce | ? |
| 18:07.41 | vontrapp | i wonder if my usb keyboard could be rearranged |
| 18:08.14 | atoponce | i kept mine in location for the f and j bumps on the keys |
| 18:08.14 | vontrapp | atoponce: kinda, it's there if i need it, but i try not to |
| 18:08.40 | vontrapp | what it does is confuse the hell out of me when i try to revert ;) |
| 18:09.11 | vontrapp | ah, just carve new bumps |
| 18:09.36 | vontrapp | i've found that i really don't miss the bumps like i thought i would |
| 18:09.36 | atoponce | well, with the das keyboard, i'm golden :) |
| 18:09.45 | atoponce | nothing layouts and bumps to confuse now |
| 18:09.55 | atoponce | s/thing// |
| 18:10.07 | vontrapp | hehe, i want one, but they're so expensive |
| 18:10.15 | atoponce | i had a dream the other night about the dvorak layout, actually |
| 18:10.44 | atoponce | i was coding in python, and while typing, i noticed that it was substantially faster than my coworker typing in qwerty |
| 18:11.08 | atoponce | odd |
| 18:11.12 | vontrapp | that's when your brain knows you're serious and real progress starts |
| 18:11.35 | atoponce | heh |
| 18:11.56 | vontrapp | it was weird |
| 18:12.38 | atoponce | you had a dream in cambodian? |
| 18:12.50 | vontrapp | yeah, more than once |
| 18:13.08 | vontrapp | not anymore, though :( |
| 18:13.48 | atoponce | why? do you know cambodian? |
| 18:14.27 | vontrapp | yep |
| 18:14.36 | vontrapp | from the mish |
| 18:14.39 | atoponce | ahh |
| 18:14.46 | atoponce | that makes more sense then |
| 18:15.29 | vontrapp | this svg lib doesn't even do the xmlns stuff |
| 18:16.00 | vontrapp | so it doesn't even work in firefox, who knows what else |
| 18:35.36 | vontrapp | and it does all it's xml manually, making it a pain to fix |
| 18:38.02 | *** join/#utah mrpull (n=mrpull@205.158.184.126.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 18:56.01 | atoponce | how can i use 'in' and 'like' in the same sql query? |
| 18:56.12 | jsmith | atoponce: Sure... |
| 18:56.49 | jsmith | atoponce: SELECT id, name FROM users WHERE name in ('George','Fred') OR name LIKE 'Rob%'; |
| 18:57.36 | atoponce | jsmith: thx. but how about ('George%','Fred%')? |
| 18:57.43 | atoponce | possible? |
| 18:58.23 | jsmith | atoponce: SELECT id, name FROM users WHERE name LIKE 'George%' OR name LIKE 'Fred%'; |
| 18:58.33 | atoponce | where comment_approved = '1' and comment_date like in('2007-04-04%', '2007-04-05%', '2007-04-06%') |
| 18:58.36 | atoponce | isn't working |
| 18:58.40 | jsmith | Right... |
| 18:58.52 | jsmith | atoponce: Which database? |
| 18:59.01 | atoponce | so, i can't use the in shortcut if using like |
| 18:59.03 | atoponce | mysql |
| 18:59.44 | jsmith | ... WHERE comment_approved = '1' and comment_date rlike ('2007-04-0[456].*'); |
| 18:59.46 | levi | beandog: Did you find someone to refer you? |
| 18:59.46 | atoponce | i don't mind typing it out by hand, just thought i'd use 'in' if possibel |
| 18:59.47 | Supaplex | and repeated and foo = |
| 18:59.52 | beandog | levi: mac did |
| 18:59.56 | levi | beandog: Ahh, bummer. |
| 18:59.56 | atoponce | ahh |
| 18:59.59 | jsmith | atoponce: Use RLIKE and regular expressions |
| 19:00.02 | levi | We love our Winder Farms deliveries. |
| 19:00.06 | atoponce | perfect. didn't even think of regex |
| 19:00.08 | atoponce | jsmith: thx |
| 19:00.09 | beandog | I'm stoked :) |
| 19:00.10 | levi | They have EXCELLENT bacon. |
| 19:00.24 | tensai | mmm. bacon. |
| 19:00.35 | jsmith | atoponce: No problem |
| 19:00.38 | levi | The bread is really good, too. I always get honey whole wheat. |
| 19:00.46 | mheath | wow....I just noticed that Japan has a no wiretapping clause in their constitution. Thats interesting, considering how their constitution is supposed to be patterned after ours, yet theres this giant wiretapping controversy in the USA.... |
| 19:00.48 | beandog | I wanna get some cookie dough in a tub :D |
| 19:01.11 | jsmith | mheath: There's no wiretapping clause in our constitution |
| 19:01.12 | levi | Haven't tried the cookie dough, but everything else they sell is good, so I imagine it is too. |
| 19:01.17 | Supaplex | that's hard to bathe in |
| 19:01.19 | jsmith | mheath: At least, last time I read it. |
| 19:01.23 | atoponce | jsmith: perfect. it worked. exactly what i was looking for |
| 19:01.31 | levi | They have some pasta and sauces that are excellent. The tomato marscapone sauce, especially. |
| 19:01.31 | jsmith | atoponce: :-) |
| 19:01.45 | mheath | jsmith, I know. I was commenting on the fact that Japan's constitution is distinctly NOT patterned after ours, in some very major ways. |
| 19:02.10 | levi | beandog: Definitely get the smoked bacon, though. |
| 19:02.56 | jsmith | OK, I'm not sure what that has to do with "OSS discussion in Utah", but I guess I'm willing to concede that the Japanese constitution may not be patterned after our own. |
| 19:05.26 | beandog | ok |
| 19:05.26 | mheath | jsmith, I thought it was technologicially interesting, particularly because the wording of the Japanese clause, in comparison to our own governments, would even make the export controls we have here on encryption unconstitutional there. |
| 19:06.36 | jsmith | mheath: OK. |
| 19:07.31 | mheath | jsmith, levi and others are talking about pasta and smoked bacon, yet you say I'm off topic for talking about wiretapping, encryption, and communication legislation? |
| 19:08.17 | beandog | there is no topic |
| 19:12.21 | tensai | mheath: yeah, but the pasta and bacon conversation stems from an earlier discussion of milk delivery, which was precipitated by a comment from Lone_Wanderer about Starbucks. |
| 19:12.41 | tensai | now Starbucks uses SugarCRM which is an Open Source app, so clearly that was an on-topic discussion |
| 19:12.56 | levi | Plus, pasta and bacon are YUMMY. Japan's constitution is not. |
| 19:13.02 | mheath | Indeed. |
| 19:13.33 | tensai | levi: I'm planning a week of nothing but pasta. I've got the Cook's Illustrated book on the topic. |
| 19:13.38 | mheath | Hmm, how late are the parts departments of most automotive dealers open? |
| 19:14.11 | levi | mheath: Usually not too late, maybe 5 or 6. I always call ahead. |
| 19:14.38 | tensai | autozone is open untli 9pm in my neighborhood. they use open source. |
| 19:15.04 | tensai | levi: have you ever made your own pasta? |
| 19:15.13 | levi | tensai: Nope. |
| 19:15.31 | levi | I married into a pasta maker, though, so I could. |
| 19:15.32 | tensai | I don't have a pasta roller but I'm going to try with just a rolling pin. |
| 19:18.22 | mheath | tensai, haha |
| 19:18.42 | mheath | IE, stand around and watch everyone in my class complete a PFA |
| 19:18.45 | tensai | yes, that was a funny joke... |
| 19:19.07 | mheath | Yes, indeed. |
| 19:19.22 | levi | When I see PF-anything, I think of the PFY from BOFH. |
| 19:21.09 | jsmith | Man, I swear I saw a switch you could pass the openssh the other day that would automagically add your public key to the authorized_keys file on the remote server |
| 19:21.12 | jsmith | And now I can't find it |
| 19:21.24 | jsmith | Does that ring a bell with anybody? |
| 19:24.01 | ScytheBlade1 | Not here |
| 19:24.05 | ScytheBlade1 | Find it and I'd abuse it though |
| 19:25.59 | tensai | ssh jsmith@server "mkdir .ssh && cat .ssh/id_dsa.pub >>.ssh/authorized_keys" |
| 19:26.23 | tensai | no wait, that won't work |
| 19:27.13 | jsmith | No, that won't work |
| 19:27.16 | herlo | tensai: try ssh-copy-id -i key.pub host |
| 19:27.43 | herlo | assuming linux |
| 19:28.18 | tensai | hey, that's pretty cool |
| 19:28.31 | herlo | tensai: anytime |
| 19:32.59 | jsmith | herlo: It copied over a line that said "Agent has no identities"... but didn't actually copy over my publiic key |
| 19:33.45 | herlo | jsmith: u need the -i switch |
| 19:36.34 | jsmith | herlo: I did have the -i switch, but mistyped the path to the public key... it's working now, thanks! |
| 19:36.39 | jsmith | ~praise herlo |
| 19:36.42 | ibot | All hail herlo! |
| 19:37.10 | tensai | ~praise ssh-agent |
| 19:37.12 | ibot | All hail ssh-agent! |
| 19:39.06 | lukfugl | o/~ enjoy it while you can, it's just like the weather... so quit complaining brother, no one lives forever. HEY! ~/o |
| 19:43.41 | beandog | http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=2412676&perpage=40&pagenumber=1 |
| 19:43.43 | brac | [What the hell is Hillary looking at!? - The Something Awful Forums] |
| 19:43.46 | beandog | oh man I cant stop laughing |
| 19:49.59 | Tene | A while back, I saw a post on openclue about magic syntax to wrap a function in a separate thread, or something of the sort, but it's dropped off of the tracker, and I can't remember who posted it. |
| 19:50.16 | Tene | Anyone have any information on that? |
| 19:52.16 | goozbach | why oh why does every single decent-looking webapp have to be written in php+mysql? |
| 19:53.36 | goozbach | Tene: wasn't it plug? |
| 19:53.36 | goozbach | the plug list, not the tracker |
| 19:54.58 | Tene | I was fairly certain that it was the openclue tracker. |
| 19:57.13 | mrpull | it seems silly that google's rss reader doesn't have search |
| 20:04.08 | levi | goozbach: php+mysql is widely deployed. People who are going to put the effort into making a polished web app want it to be widely used, so php+mysql becomes very attractive. |
| 20:08.21 | tensai | Tene: http://www.vimtips.org/article/7/decorator-fun-in-python |
| 20:10.12 | goozbach | yeah, but I don't want to modify it |
| 20:14.07 | levi | Me either. That's why I wrote my own blog software, when I was blogging. |
| 20:16.57 | Tene | tensai: thank you. |
| 20:18.56 | Tene | goozbach: what sort of web app are you wanting? |
| 20:36.09 | tensai | wow. sco lost $12m last quarter. they currently have $7m in the bank. |
| 20:37.12 | tensai | that can't continue for much longer |
| 20:38.53 | levi | Indeed. |
| 20:39.09 | tensai | http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=198800863 |
| 20:39.15 | brac | [Judge Bars Vonage From Signing Up New Customers -- Vonage VoIP -- InformationWeek] |
| 20:41.56 | tensai | while I have no particular love for vonage, that's just sad |
| 20:42.01 | tensai | ~lart USPTO |
| 20:42.01 | ibot | pours hot grits down the front of USPTO's pants |
| 20:51.31 | goozbach | Tene: a report genrator for Asterisk Call Detail Records |
| 21:05.41 | mheath | tensai, I think its an OK decision for the judge, personally. |
| 21:06.00 | mheath | Not necessarily agreeing with the patent issue, though |
| 21:06.43 | mheath | Its smart: This courts decision may vary well end in your companys demise. It makes no sense for us to allow you to coninue making money of what may be legally invalid technology, and it makes no sense for you to sign up new customers who you may have to dump shortly. |
| 21:09.18 | lukfugl | mheath: what if the court's decision (on the patent issue) were overturned, and Vonage is cleared, but the imposition of no new customers were to force them out of business in the meantime. how is that just? |
| 21:10.09 | beandog | either way, Verizon is a bunch of bullies. |
| 21:10.40 | beandog | just yet another Baby Bell to never do business with |
| 21:11.06 | lukfugl | it's kinda like executing a deathrow inmate before he's had a chance to have his appeal heard (not quite as extreme, and the probability of the appeal succeeding differs in each case -- but in principle, the same) |
| 21:11.57 | tensai | lukfugl: "you're sentenced to die, so we're not going to bother feeding you even though it might turn out later that you were innocent"? |
| 21:12.17 | lukfugl | tensai: yeah, that's a bit closer :) |
| 21:14.33 | tensai | boy, this would be a handy time to have transactions. oh wait! this is mysql. we don't need no stinkin' transactions. |
| 21:14.51 | beandog | tensai: use InnoDB |
| 21:14.56 | beandog | The Other Storage Engine |
| 21:15.44 | beandog | Also known as, the one nobody knows about or uses, much to the detriment of referential integrity worldwide. |
| 21:15.44 | beandog | No, I'm not bitter. |
| 21:15.44 | beandog | I just hate MySQL |
| 21:15.45 | beandog | :) |
| 21:15.45 | Tene | "mysql: We have transactions now! Really! They totally transact! We're a real grown-up database now! We promise!" |
| 21:15.48 | tensai | oh, I know about it. but I don't like innodb for unspecified reasons. |
| 21:16.21 | beandog | Tene++ |
| 21:16.21 | lukfugl | unspecified reasons are the best ever |
| 21:16.25 | lukfugl | no one can argue with them :) |
| 21:16.40 | beandog | My arbitrary reasons beat out your unspecified ones anyday |
| 21:16.50 | Tene | lukfugl owes me $5 for unspecified reasons. |
| 21:16.55 | lukfugl | d'oh! |
| 21:17.08 | Tene | :D |
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| 21:17.17 | tensai | just pay him back in unspecified currency |
| 21:18.12 | Tene | InnoDB: like adding too much salt to a low-quality hamburger. |
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| 21:18.16 | lukfugl | tensai: better, I'll refuse to pay him for unspecified reasons |
| 21:19.27 | tensai | I've eaten low-quality hamburger, I can relate |
| 21:19.34 | lukfugl | sjansen loves them |
| 21:19.41 | lukfugl | sjansen must love InnoDB as well ;) |
| 21:20.00 | lukfugl | we are talking about McDonalds' hamburgers, right? |
| 21:20.09 | tensai | ergo, sjansen kills kittens |
| 21:20.12 | levi | Hmm, another mozy.com coding deathmatch. |
| 21:20.17 | levi | Anyone participate in the first one? |
| 21:20.36 | tensai | I heard sjansen wrote a kitten killing machine for his entry |
| 21:20.47 | lukfugl | levi: I did |
| 21:20.55 | levi | lukfugl: What'd you think of it? |
| 21:21.08 | lukfugl | I'm working at BDS now... ;) |
| 21:21.17 | levi | Heh. |
| 21:21.49 | lukfugl | I thought it was fun |
| 21:21.57 | levi | I guess you did well? |
| 21:22.01 | lukfugl | didn't make it to the final round, but apparently did well enough |
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| 21:24.05 | levi | Hmm. My parents are going to be in town that day. |
| 21:25.37 | levi | I wonder what Lisp they're using. |
| 21:26.01 | levi | There's a significant difference in execution time profiles between, say, clisp and sbcl. |
| 21:32.16 | levi | lukfugl: Are you working there full-time? |
| 21:32.19 | lukfugl | good point. I'll bring it up with our guys that are setting up the environments for the final round |
| 21:32.22 | lukfugl | yeah |
| 21:32.44 | lukfugl | for the first two rounds though, execution time differences between languages probably wont matter much |
| 21:32.51 | lukfugl | if at all |
| 21:33.05 | lukfugl | I used Ruby for all my submissions last fall, and Ruby is notoriously slow :) |
| 21:33.34 | levi | That's probably true. It'd still be good to know which one, since they tend to have different libraries and such beyond the Common Lisp spec. |
| 21:33.41 | zwily | levi - we'll accept any lisp dialect that we can download and run for free on a windows or debian box |
| 21:34.07 | levi | zwily: Does this include Scheme as well as Common Lisp? |
| 21:34.12 | zwily | sure :) |
| 21:34.26 | levi | I've had a lot more scheme practice lately. |
| 21:34.31 | zwily | there are a couple people here that would love to see a lisp submission win |
| 21:34.58 | levi | I don't know if I'll have time to participate on that day, though. :( |
| 21:35.10 | Tene | levi: my question last time was "what perl modules do you have installed?", but I never got an answer. |
| 21:35.24 | levi | Nor do I have any idea how far I'd make it in the contest. Could be fun, though. |
| 21:36.13 | zwily | Tene - any modules included in http://www.perl.com/download.csp#stable |
| 21:36.22 | zwily | that's what we consider "standard" |
| 21:36.32 | Tene | 'kay |
| 21:40.42 | levi | What languages did the last top winners use? |
| 21:42.00 | zwily | C++/C#/Java/PHP/Ruby |
| 21:42.18 | levi | In order? |
| 21:43.21 | lukfugl | levi: 8 way split in the finals last time :) |
| 21:43.30 | zwily | no, i'm not sure of the order |
| 21:43.40 | zwily | probably more java than anything else though |
| 21:43.45 | Tene | zwily: perl6? |
| 21:43.55 | levi | Not surprising. Lots of Java coders around. |
| 21:43.56 | lukfugl | tene: heh |
| 21:44.05 | beandog | I think PHP and ruby should join forces. |
| 21:44.10 | beandog | I wont comment on possible project names. |
| 21:44.47 | zwily | heh |
| 21:44.59 | zwily | perl6 and ruby2 are welcome :) |
| 21:45.08 | zwily | you just have to give us the sources |
| 21:45.14 | Tene | beandog: they should use the ruby interpreter, the ruby libraries, the ruby everythign else, and just call it "ruby" |
| 21:46.18 | Tene | beandog: what do you feel that ruby could gain from PHP? |
| 21:46.52 | zwily | clutter? |
| 21:46.52 | beandog | heh |
| 21:46.54 | beandog | awesome function naming scheme, for one. |
| 21:47.01 | levi | ... |
| 21:47.37 | zwily | "namespacing via prepending" |
| 21:47.43 | tensai | an extensive user base of knowledgeable programmers |
| 21:48.08 | beandog | sexy documentation |
| 21:48.16 | zwily | ooooh touche' |
| 21:48.25 | zwily | s/sexy/english/ |
| 21:48.42 | Tene | beandog: you mean with all the knowledgeable, intelligent user comments I see on the php documentation? |
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| 21:48.55 | beandog | Tene: my comment was only intended for a purely juveline joke away, it had nothing to do with technical implications whatsoever :) |
| 21:50.28 | Tene | Oh. |
| 21:50.47 | Tene | No, I'm just not coherent enough to notice. |
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| 21:51.49 | beandog | heh |
| 21:51.55 | beandog | well Friday Afternoon Fuzziness has set in. |
| 21:53.34 | levi | I suspected you were joking, but sometimes it's hard to be sure around here. ;) |
| 21:55.31 | Tene | I still can't figure out what the juvenile name suggestion would be. |
| 21:55.31 | beandog | maybe its just not funny. |
| 21:57.26 | levi | Cool, this thesis on writing a virtual machine for Alice ML has lots of excellent techniques and a boatload of good references. |
| 22:04.47 | levi | Yow, I've got 29 pdf documents opened in evince right now. I have no idea what all of them are. |
| 22:06.02 | lukfugl | -chat about php is |
| 22:06.03 | brac | php is the intersection of the ultramonkey package |
| 22:08.45 | levi | That explains it all! |
| 22:09.48 | mrpull | hey now, ultramonkey is a good package despite a silly name |
| 22:14.57 | levi | What is ultramonkey? |
| 22:16.09 | mrpull | a HA/Loadbalancing package that uses heartbeat and LVS |
| 22:16.09 | levi | Ahh, okay. |
| 22:25.04 | tensai | Tene: I would call it pupy |
| 22:26.02 | lukfugl | -chat about I would |
| 22:26.02 | brac | I would guess ubuntu does too, but she's not on the laptop. I'm going to setup a double take. |
| 22:29.57 | levi | -chat about lukfugl is |
| 22:29.57 | brac | lukfugl is curious about the ZIP100 drive in snow. |
| 22:29.59 | levi | -chat about levi is |
| 22:29.59 | brac | levi is almost done with highschool |
| 22:30.03 | levi | Hah. |
| 22:30.07 | lukfugl | lol |
| 22:30.09 | levi | -chat about elg is |
| 22:30.09 | brac | elg is sick |
| 22:30.14 | lukfugl | aww, poor elg |
| 22:30.18 | levi | -chat about brac is |
| 22:30.18 | brac | brac is the standard logging module |
| 22:30.29 | levi | -chat about mrpull is |
| 22:30.29 | lukfugl | -chat about ibot is |
| 22:30.29 | brac | mrpull is home, mrpull- is talking in #perl6, and it still moves around. |
| 22:30.29 | brac | ibot is a software interrupt to get there on a HP-UX server, where you re-reboot your carreer, back into blogging. |
| 22:30.53 | lukfugl | awesome, I'm gonna re-reboot my career and become a blogger |
| 22:32.30 | levi | -chat about tensai is |
| 22:32.30 | brac | tensai is playing the last 3 years now though... so it SHOULD ultimately come back from trainings with no lug nuts? run jsmith junior, run! |
| 22:32.58 | levi | Ahh, the humor value of Markov chains is endless! |
| 22:34.33 | tensai | levi: that's pretty accurate. aren't you going to uvsc? |
| 22:35.08 | levi | tensai: Yeah, it's just like high school. :P |
| 22:37.28 | levi | I graduated from high school about 13 years ago now. |
| 22:37.37 | levi | Scary thought. |
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| 23:07.48 | beandog | hey, me too |
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