| 00:00.41 | harleypig | This is most certainly not a get rich quick scheme. Not even a get rich in 5 years. |
| 00:00.49 | elg | i myself am not so much an audiophile. I do enjoy an audiophile-like listen from time to time, but mostly I listen on terrible speakers or headphones. :) I'd be perfectly happy to buy DRM-free music at 128kbps too :-) |
| 00:01.11 | levi | harleypig: Have you set up a business around it before? |
| 00:01.25 | jnbek | agreed, i prefer 192, but i'll take what i can get :) |
| 00:01.29 | harleypig | I have a friend who started one in 2000. After about 3 years he had aeverything smoothed out so that it was mostly automated. He gets about $1000/month without doing a whole lot. |
| 00:01.43 | levi | harleypig: Hmm. Sounds reasonable. |
| 00:01.55 | harleypig | levi: no, I'm kind of nervous about doing this, but I need to have something in the background for when layoffs come around. |
| 00:01.56 | Tene | What is a 'dropshipper'? |
| 00:02.14 | harleypig | Tene: They handle all the storing and shipping of the product for you. |
| 00:02.24 | harleypig | You just provide a store front (or a webpage) for them. |
| 00:02.30 | Tene | Ahh, okay. |
| 00:02.44 | levi | harleypig: That's kind of my thinking, too. I want to go to grad school, but it will be difficult to support my family (who is not as frugal as elg's ;) ) on a grad student stipend. |
| 00:02.59 | vontrapp | Tene: iow, the difference between 128 and 256 may be small, but it can only be better, and the difference in disk space is also small, by today's standards |
| 00:03.21 | vontrapp | add to that that you have DRM free music, it's win win |
| 00:04.42 | vontrapp | and you can always resample it :) |
| 00:05.22 | elg | heh, levi look at the Q&A at the end of that talk. first response |
| 00:34.47 | elg | is it legal to shave a yak in order to drive away yaks? |
| 00:44.33 | Tene | Seems valid to me. |
| 00:54.05 | levi | Heh, nice anecdote. It's pretty much the opposite of what happened at PARC, though. |
| 01:33.46 | Tene | levi: eh? |
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| 01:58.23 | findlay | ~yak Tene |
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| 02:41.53 | tensai | ~lart Jayce^ |
| 02:41.53 | ibot | nukes Jayce^ with a single large nuke |
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| 03:17.52 | levi | Tene: elg pointed me at a quote from that Hamming talk. It related to yak shaving, because he told the management to get the big computer out of the research division and put a really small one in so they wouldn't be tempted to play with it. At PARC, they built themselves the fastest computers they could, and then created cool stuff with them. |
| 03:18.42 | levi | Tene: I guess the difference is that Hamming came up with lots of cool information theory stuff, while the PARC people came up with lots of cool hardware and software. |
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| 03:25.56 | elg | levi: actually, it was "get us a slow computer so the rest of Bell Labs won't bug us to compute stuff for them" |
| 03:26.31 | elg | he knew they could still do good stuff with a not-bleeding-edge computer, and nobody would come begging |
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| 04:04.27 | levi_home | elg: Ahh, okay. I didn't have time to read it very closely. |
| 04:06.10 | elg | it might not have been obvious without the context of the story earlier |
| 04:10.43 | levi_home | Good stuff, anyway. I've been meaning to read that talk for a long time, but I never get around to it. |
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| 14:17.40 | nick125_lappy | I've always wondered how Fedex did "Ground" delivery from the continental US to HI... |
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| 15:05.26 | findlay | there's nowhere in this office I could go to escape the incessant chatter |
| 15:05.49 | findlay | and if it's not chatter, it's brain numbing "music" |
| 15:08.22 | vontrapp | ~schumann findlay |
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| 15:22.58 | graphyx | findlay: get the over the ear noise cancelling headphones. |
| 15:23.25 | graphyx | I have it one worse, the break room is across from my cube and they always leave the tv on. |
| 15:23.36 | graphyx | with cartoons or some soap opera or whatever. |
| 15:25.12 | findlay | graphyx: haha, sounds fun. You should rig up some universal remote for it or something |
| 15:26.17 | elg | graphyx: sounds like you need one of these: http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/electronic/755e/ |
| 15:26.19 | brac | [ThinkGeek :: TV-B-Gone] |
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| 15:28.51 | elg | -lart lukfugl |
| 15:28.57 | lukfugl | -lart elg |
| 15:30.43 | bonez39 | This is a problem from my 9 yr son's math homework... a shape is three-dimensional. Each of its sides is a square, and it has 8 vertices..what shape is it? .. anyone know? |
| 15:30.46 | findlay | ~lart talk |
| 15:30.46 | ibot | blasts talk to oblivion with a kamehameha wave |
| 15:31.14 | findlay | bonez39: a cube |
| 15:31.18 | lukfugl | cube |
| 15:31.57 | bonez39 | a cube......I guess "square box" is too imprecise....eh? |
| 15:32.11 | bonez39 | I see how cube is most accurate...... |
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| 15:44.26 | ^Migs^ | is there a way to set a "trigger" in Linux, so that if one directory gets updated, it could automatically copy the new contents to another? |
| 15:47.10 | elg | yes |
| 15:47.11 | jsmith | ^Migs^: Google for "inotify" |
| 15:47.19 | jsmith | ~google inotify |
| 15:48.11 | jsmith | ^Migs^: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inotify |
| 15:48.12 | ^Migs^ | okay, thanks |
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| 16:03.37 | tensai | graphyx: or one of these http://img.alibaba.com/photo/10827550/American_Type_Cross_Pein_Sledge_Hammer.jpg |
| 16:03.51 | harleypig | This presidential election has a lot of potential firsts: the first black president, the first woman president and the first mormon president. |
| 16:04.32 | harleypig | We should just appoint Gladys Knight to the presidency and get it over with. |
| 16:04.40 | findlay | yeah |
| 16:04.46 | harleypig | Eldredge Cleaver can be the Vice Pres |
| 16:05.00 | bonez39 | is Brother Cleaver still around? |
| 16:05.13 | harleypig | *shrug* |
| 16:14.00 | *** join/#utah sjansen (n=sjansen@66.60.228.131) |
| 16:17.46 | findlay | -chat about Linux XP |
| 16:17.47 | brac | Linux XP on a very high data transfer rate. Consequently, there'd be much faster than 4x |
| 16:19.11 | sjansen | redbeard1: I don't know why you gotta be bagging on McDonald's. Their food is good. |
| 16:19.27 | sjansen | It's not "complex" or "subtle" but it is greasy, cheesy and even comes with onions. |
| 16:19.49 | sjansen | I think you just don't know how to appreciate good fast food. |
| 16:20.04 | elg | -lart sjansen |
| 16:20.23 | elg | man, there's good fast food, but mcdonalds ain't is |
| 16:20.38 | redbeard1 | sjansen: i do know how to appreciate good fast food. that's why i'm bagging on mickey d |
| 16:20.53 | emcnabb | I actually like a good ol' Big Mac |
| 16:21.44 | sjansen | I prefer their more simple Jr. Double Cheeseburger. |
| 16:21.57 | ^Migs^ | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZD7QraljRfM |
| 16:22.06 | redbeard1 | i still remember my first big mac. i was about 12 y/o and i was pretty excited about it. even then, i remember feeling largely disappointed. |
| 16:22.15 | elg | big mac is ok |
| 16:22.24 | findlay | heh I did `apt-cache search psycho` and the second hit was: libchatbot-eliza-perl - Eliza chat bot interface module for Perl |
| 16:22.24 | sjansen | Out in the DC area they've got this breakfast chicken sandwich that's amazing. I think it's a crime they haven't taken it national. |
| 16:22.28 | elg | but doesn't stand out |
| 16:23.22 | sjansen | If you want food that stands out, try the Carl's Jr. Buffalo burger or the Wendy's 4-Alarm Spicy Chicken. |
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| 16:24.08 | sjansen | Over all, though, I've discovered I prefer the $1 burger at most places. Simple and delicious with out the distracting gimmicks. |
| 16:24.10 | lukfugl | The philly burger is the only thing I can stand to eat from CJ |
| 16:24.18 | elg | a good $1 burger still stands out |
| 16:24.26 | elg | from mcdonalds anyway |
| 16:24.32 | findlay | -chat about good burger |
| 16:24.33 | brac | good burger |
| 16:24.56 | findlay | burgers, hah! |
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| 16:25.01 | lukfugl | I'll take BK's whopper jr. ($1) over any cheap mcd burger |
| 16:25.10 | sjansen | And then there's the $1 burger at Burger King, the thing's almost as much salad as burger. Wonderful. |
| 16:25.26 | dataw0lf | double cheeseburger at mcdonald's can't be beat. |
| 16:25.33 | dataw0lf | it's a food group. |
| 16:25.41 | elg | I always wondered why mcdonalds was still in business |
| 16:25.51 | elg | I see now that some people have no taste. ;-) |
| 16:25.53 | sjansen | marketing genius |
| 16:26.04 | elg | hardly |
| 16:26.14 | elg | they haven't made a good commercial in like a decade |
| 16:26.21 | dataw0lf | you guys need to get an In and Out |
| 16:26.40 | dataw0lf | 3 out of 5 workdays I get In and Out |
| 16:26.42 | sjansen | I'm not talking commercials, I'm talking branding and menu changes. |
| 16:27.12 | elg | blakes lotaburger is where it's at |
| 16:27.26 | lukfugl | I'd forgotten about lotaburger |
| 16:27.43 | dataw0lf | naah, In and Out beats any other fast food joint. |
| 16:27.44 | sjansen | McDonald's has been working hard to respond to the new trend toward healthy eating. They've been remodeling their restaurants to reflect the trend toward more upscale fast food. |
| 16:28.21 | sjansen | Most of the other places just stick with what worked in the past. McD isn't afraid to change. |
| 16:28.44 | elg | i've been to a few McD's recently. playpens and all |
| 16:28.53 | elg | it's the same trashy joint it's always been, with the same trashy food |
| 16:28.56 | sjansen | Hardly. I'm a Carl Jr's man myself, drifting toward Wendy's. |
| 16:29.57 | sjansen | elg: Obviously some places are more ahead of the curve than others. I'm talking on a national scale having seen so many fast food joints in so many cities. |
| 16:30.56 | lukfugl | I've given mcd second chances, they've never made the second chance worth it for me |
| 16:31.05 | dataw0lf | sjansen: have you had in-n-out? |
| 16:31.05 | findlay | ibot: sjansen is also my fast food mogul |
| 16:31.15 | ibot | ACTION tells is also my fast food mogul good things about sjansen |
| 16:31.22 | findlay | whatever |
| 16:31.47 | sjansen | If I were going to shill fo McD's, I'd be pushing their Chipolte's restraurant. As fast food americanized mexican goes, they're surprisingly competent. |
| 16:31.48 | lukfugl | the only thing I've found tolerable at mcd is the breakfast stuff, but other places still at least equal it in that department |
| 16:32.01 | elg | carls jr, wendy's, jack in the box, consistently better than McD everywhere I've been (not just utah) |
| 16:32.10 | elg | you've been enough places to find a few outliers |
| 16:32.10 | elg | :) |
| 16:32.28 | dataw0lf | ever had Mickey D's in europe? |
| 16:32.34 | sjansen | dataw0lf: Yeah. It didn't seem to be the "all that" experience some people think it is. Definitely not worthy of a t-shirt and cult of personality. |
| 16:32.37 | lukfugl | wendy's is still fairly low on the ladder, though :) |
| 16:32.42 | elg | and local places/chains like blakes and in-n-out generally school all of them |
| 16:32.46 | dataw0lf | sjansen: ah, but it's much more than the food |
| 16:33.00 | dataw0lf | they pay their employees significantly more than most fast food chains, and provide decent benefits |
| 16:33.05 | dataw0lf | the customer service is just outstanding |
| 16:33.22 | lukfugl | burger supreme FTW |
| 16:33.25 | dataw0lf | In-n-Out just has a good corporate philosophy |
| 16:33.37 | elg | exactly, burgers supreme/apollo is another example |
| 16:33.47 | sjansen | dataw0lf: I guess that makes sense. But I'm not the type of person that feels guilty about shopping at Walmart. |
| 16:34.08 | dataw0lf | ah, see, I do. |
| 16:34.12 | lukfugl | best fries in existence, and a nice variety of sandwiches (mmm, green chile cheeseburger) |
| 16:34.22 | dataw0lf | I always shop local or at a corporation like In-n-Out or Costco |
| 16:34.48 | sjansen | elg: I'm not saying McD's has the best food. I'm saying their marketing is better. All of the other places have a target market while McD's tries to appeal to a broad base. |
| 16:35.38 | elg | and I'm saying I've not seen one reason marketing or otherwise why anyone would want to go to mcd except for inertia (habit) or maybe extreme cheapness |
| 16:36.09 | sjansen | If you had to pick the most important target market, though, I'd have to say McD's children most aggressively. Which is probably better for the bottom line than other approaches. |
| 16:36.47 | sjansen | Don't underestimate the power of inertia. Why do most people still use Windows? |
| 16:36.50 | tensai | best mcd burger was the lettuce pepper burger I had in Japan |
| 16:36.51 | elg | which is why you never see Ronald or the fry guys or that purple dude or any of those things anymore? why did they have better kids commercials when we were kids? |
| 16:37.20 | lukfugl | McDonalds: the Windows of the fast food world |
| 16:37.27 | sjansen | pretty much |
| 16:37.32 | elg | they're coasting on inertia. their current marketing sucks |
| 16:37.42 | Jayce^ | elg, amazingly enough I saw the hamburgler standing outside of the mcd's they just opened near my house.. |
| 16:37.59 | tensai | marketing to kids is pretty slimey in the first place |
| 16:38.04 | elg | sweet. did he steal your hamburgers? :) |
| 16:38.17 | Jayce^ | probably looking for better burgers than mcd's |
| 16:38.20 | elg | tensai: welcome to the real world :-) |
| 16:38.32 | tensai | elg: gee thanks. can I go home now? |
| 16:39.05 | findlay | but you can't collect $200 as you pass Go |
| 16:39.06 | elg | tensai: sure. just don't stop at mcdonalds on the way out ;-) |
| 16:40.07 | tensai | I'd love to see Moss Burger imported from Japan too |
| 16:40.08 | brac | I'd love to fly so now my .cshrc file contains "test -x /bin/bash && exec /bin/bash" |
| 16:40.20 | lukfugl | awesome, brac |
| 16:41.06 | sjansen | I'd love to see true Paulista hot dogs. |
| 16:41.39 | *** join/#utah Lancep (n=lance_pe@translate.sento.com) |
| 16:41.39 | lukfugl | I'd like to see J-Dawg's somewhere near me -- BYU campus is a bit of a drive from my work |
| 16:41.43 | lukfugl | those are good hotdogs |
| 16:43.19 | Lancep | hey guys |
| 16:43.44 | elg | hey lance predicate |
| 16:43.55 | Lancep | lot of people in here are most active? |
| 16:44.10 | elg | i'd guess most people in here are fairly sedentary |
| 16:44.16 | findlay | ~activate |
| 16:44.42 | elg | but active enough to keep alive |
| 16:44.42 | Lancep | haha |
| 16:45.43 | Lancep | not sure if you guys will appreciate this or hate me but im a BYU grad working as a linux admin in orem and we are hiring two linux admins. Not sure it this is the place to ask but i thought i would give it a try. |
| 16:46.04 | elg | we hate you |
| 16:46.16 | findlay | how do you delete rows with SQL? |
| 16:46.16 | elg | but welcome, we enjoy talking to the people we hate most |
| 16:46.17 | lukfugl | no no no, elg |
| 16:46.28 | findlay | like: DELETE THE ROWS NOW!; |
| 16:46.30 | lukfugl | we only hate people who top-post, remember? |
| 16:46.34 | elg | findlay: drop table |
| 16:46.38 | jsmith | findlay: DELETE FROM table_name WHERE column = 'some_condition'; |
| 16:46.42 | Lancep | is there a place on the PLUG site i could post this? |
| 16:46.45 | lukfugl | findlay: drop database |
| 16:46.46 | elg | lukfugl: hey wait, I'm a top poster at heart |
| 16:46.59 | elg | the list is probably best |
| 16:47.01 | jsmith | elg: Who are you and what have you done with elg? |
| 16:47.11 | jsmith | tensai: You too, eh? |
| 16:47.13 | elg | 2% milk. my wife thought I wouldn't notice or something |
| 16:47.17 | findlay | Lancep: plug@plug.org |
| 16:47.41 | tensai | jsmith: I suspect findlay has taken over his brain using nanobots |
| 16:47.43 | Lancep | thanks findlay |
| 16:47.50 | elg | when I woke up, my internet was down. apparently I didn't get my router changes solidified |
| 16:47.53 | jsmith | tensai: I'm with you... |
| 16:48.04 | jsmith | elg: What music are you listening to right now? |
| 16:48.10 | elg | the dryer |
| 16:48.11 | sjansen | findlay: DELETE FROM table; |
| 16:48.12 | jsmith | tensai: (This is how we can tell if there's any elg left) |
| 16:48.29 | synic | Tene: are you on openclue? What's your name? |
| 16:48.52 | sjansen | findlay: Some wrong thinking people will tell you to include a WHERE clause. Ignore them. _Never_ include a WHERE clause in a DELETE FROM or Bad Things(tm) could happen. |
| 16:48.53 | elg | Lancep: seriously, this is a fine place, as is the plug list |
| 16:49.02 | elg | Lancep: and we like linux people even if they're in orem |
| 16:49.19 | Lancep | so are most of you working in the area like me, or students .... |
| 16:49.23 | Lancep | oh, nice... |
| 16:49.35 | tensai | just as long as you're in utah somewhere, otherwise you'll be hated and shunned |
| 16:49.36 | elg | sjansen: like what? my sql is rusty |
| 16:49.44 | Lancep | am ok since i went to school there? |
| 16:49.53 | jsmith | tensai: Right! |
| 16:50.04 | elg | like tensai, maquis, graphyx, sjansen (usually), emcnabb, dataw0lf, and mheath |
| 16:50.04 | sjansen | elg: If you include a WHERE clause, some of your data might not be deleted. Obviously, that'd be bad. |
| 16:50.06 | elg | and me |
| 16:50.23 | lukfugl | ~shun elg |
| 16:50.26 | ibot | You are dead to me, elg. |
| 16:50.34 | elg | ~lart lukfugl |
| 16:50.34 | ibot | executes killall -TERM lukfugl |
| 16:50.41 | elg | hey look, ibot listens to dead people |
| 16:50.43 | lukfugl | -lart elg |
| 16:50.44 | jsmith | elg: Like when I try to convince you that you should do a "DELETE FROM bank_account WHERE transaction_id = 5", you should listen to sjansen and just do a "DELETE FROM bank_account" |
| 16:50.49 | elg | oh, and jsmith too! |
| 16:50.50 | tensai | DELETE FROM utah WHERE nick = 'elg'; |
| 16:50.52 | Lancep | i didnt realize i have gotten on the DBA users group |
| 16:51.08 | jsmith | Lancep: Naw, we talk about *everything* in here |
| 16:51.19 | elg | you just missed the great mcdonalds debate |
| 16:51.27 | Lancep | hahah |
| 16:51.28 | jsmith | elg: I missed that one... lucky me |
| 16:51.47 | Lancep | crap i could have contributed |
| 16:51.48 | jsmith | My daughter is having her birthday party at Mickey-Ds next week... yuck |
| 16:51.49 | sjansen | Bottom Posting rulez! Top posting droolz! |
| 16:51.54 | findlay | DELETE BURGERS FROM McDONALDS; |
| 16:52.19 | jsmith | That reminds me of of my favorite burger experience |
| 16:52.26 | *** topic/#utah by sjansen -> The channel for OSS discussion in Utah | http://www.plug.org/node/28 | Utah Open Source Conference - September 6-8, 2007 |
| 16:52.27 | findlay | SELECT BOTTOM-POSTING AND DELETE FROM STUFF WHERE IT DOESN"T WORK; |
| 16:52.38 | jsmith | My wife and I once made the mistake of having breakfast at Burger King. |
| 16:53.01 | jsmith | She said something to the effect of "This food is so bad... I wish this place would burn to the ground." |
| 16:53.08 | jsmith | The next morning, the Burger King was gone. |
| 16:53.14 | jsmith | It had burned to the ground overnight. |
| 16:53.14 | lukfugl | is your wife's name Carrie? |
| 16:53.19 | jsmith | lukfugl: Nope... |
| 16:53.32 | jsmith | And the paper the next day had the headline "Burger King Fries" |
| 16:53.37 | lukfugl | lol |
| 16:53.46 | Lancep | So do you think members of the PLUG would be interested in a Jr. Linux admin job? not sure if every one here is a guru working as a Sr. Linux admin some place. |
| 16:53.51 | elg | jsmith: remind me not to invite your wife to my bakery |
| 16:54.07 | elg | Lancep: post it, you might get a bite |
| 16:54.08 | lukfugl | Lancep: we've got plenty of Jr.'s that might be interested |
| 16:54.10 | findlay | Lancep: I might be interested if I didn't have 3 jobs already :) |
| 16:54.11 | lukfugl | like sjansen |
| 16:54.14 | elg | might try uug too if you have part-time |
| 16:54.24 | Lancep | mmmmmm bakery |
| 16:54.24 | *** join/#utah WashiChan (n=Chelle@143-106.dynamicpool.suu.edu) |
| 16:54.26 | sjansen | Lancep: Some might, although we don't get the stream of newbies we used to. |
| 16:54.51 | elg | sjansen: I still feel guilty for that sourdough bread I gave you way back when. it was ok but nothing special and you crossed town in a snowstorm barefoot to get it |
| 16:55.07 | elg | so one of these days when our paths cross I'll get you a real loaf |
| 16:55.07 | sjansen | up hill both ways! |
| 16:55.11 | lukfugl | mmmm, sourdough |
| 16:55.13 | Lancep | so are all of you employed in utah county? maybey i could get a job from one of you ;) |
| 16:55.34 | lukfugl | I had corned beef and cabbage with sourdough biscuits on sunday. it was heaven |
| 16:55.39 | sjansen | elg: the least you could have done was sweep up the carpet of broken glass at your front door |
| 16:55.39 | elg | sjansen is hiring mcdonalds shills |
| 16:56.21 | sjansen | Lancep: Davis County, and we're hiring if you love Linux, have people skills and like to travel |
| 16:56.32 | Lancep | hehehe |
| 16:56.33 | Jayce^ | and travel, and travel.. |
| 16:56.40 | elg | and travel some more |
| 16:56.41 | Jayce^ | and can put up with folks like sjansen |
| 16:57.01 | elg | don't worry, you get a mcdonalds expense account |
| 16:57.09 | elg | all the big macs you can eat |
| 16:57.10 | Lancep | really what do you do? ive a got a good job as a Sr. Linux admin but you never know, so i ask... |
| 16:57.19 | sjansen | *shrug* I was home for two months without any travel. |
| 16:57.52 | sjansen | I asked to travel 'cause I was hankering to eat at expensive restaurants. |
| 16:58.04 | sjansen | Jayce^: Fogo de Chao in Houston, last night |
| 16:58.11 | sjansen | Best filet mignon I've ever had. |
| 16:58.40 | Lancep | I just went down to set up a 800 seat call center in NM but thats all the treveling ive done in a year or so |
| 16:59.01 | elg | where in nm? |
| 16:59.07 | elg | what kind of call center? asterisk? |
| 16:59.07 | Lancep | alb |
| 16:59.15 | Lancep | go to rudy's bbq! |
| 16:59.18 | findlay | elg: it's PC for slave labor |
| 16:59.20 | Lancep | its awesome! |
| 16:59.38 | elg | findlay: ok, then I ask what kind of torture devices |
| 16:59.48 | findlay | heh |
| 17:00.15 | Lancep | we do customer support for technical accounts like iomega and mcafee. my role is in portals for our clients |
| 17:00.38 | sjansen | Wish I'd had room for seconds. |
| 17:00.58 | Lancep | no astrisk but that would be awesome since we have over 3000 seats world wide |
| 17:01.05 | sjansen | My one disappointment was the creme brulee, it lacked courage. |
| 17:01.45 | elg | ~shave sjansen |
| 17:01.48 | ibot | ACTION grabs the razor & shaving cream & chases sjansen until he sees TheRedBaron... then grabs TheRedbaron & dry shaves TheRedBaron from head to toe! |
| 17:01.54 | *** join/#utah TimRiker (n=timr@216.49.181.128) |
| 17:01.54 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 17:02.15 | sjansen | Creme brulee is tricky to get right. Easy to under-cook for lack of courage. Easy to over cook for lack of attention. But heaven when done right. |
| 17:03.02 | Jayce^ | sjansen, eating leftover homemade smoked pork shoulder :) |
| 17:03.20 | Jayce^ | homemade beans and taters in the dutch ovens too :)( |
| 17:07.01 | *** join/#utah dataw0lf (n=stderr@stderr.ws) |
| 17:08.30 | Lancep | I have a technical question if you dont mind. I am configuring DansGuard and have been playing with Identd. For some reason i can connect only once using ident and then the server freezes. Cant find any comments about this online. |
| 17:08.58 | Lancep | any one have experience here? |
| 17:09.33 | elg | -metar klru |
| 17:09.34 | brac | KLRU 031653Z AUTO 05005KT 10SM CLR 23/M04 A3020 RMK AO2 |
| 17:10.20 | ^Migs^ | wow, Indian tech support at its finest. Bhadraksh Tarun Kumar Sanjay Pradeep Singh or whatever his name is spent over a week "analyzing" a few lines of log files. Now he finally admits he can't figure it out, even though he never bothered to ask for the actual application, even though common sense dictates he would need that for actual testing. |
| 17:10.36 | ^Migs^ | I didn't bother sending it to him because he's an idiot and wouldn't be able to figure it out anyway |
| 17:13.18 | *** join/#utah ti`ocpi (n=Chelle@143-106.dynamicpool.suu.edu) |
| 17:13.18 | sjansen | identd is teh evilz |
| 17:13.43 | lukfugl | trying to find data inside a 11GB log file is a bit of a pain :( |
| 17:13.44 | Lancep | true but ntlm sucks too |
| 17:15.16 | graphyx | Lancep: where do you work if you don't mind sharing? |
| 17:15.21 | Lancep | i dont like that ntlm relies on samba and winbind between all the dependancies doesnt seem to work reliably |
| 17:15.29 | levi_home | Good morning, everyone. |
| 17:15.29 | graphyx | and are you really looking for work or was that a quick quip? |
| 17:15.38 | graphyx | I am not a linux admin |
| 17:15.54 | Lancep | Sento Corp |
| 17:15.59 | graphyx | I am a security analyst and loving it. |
| 17:16.08 | graphyx | Lancep: I worked there for 3 years. |
| 17:16.13 | Lancep | do you work for OC tanner? |
| 17:16.17 | graphyx | But managed to get out. |
| 17:16.32 | Lancep | haha whats your name? |
| 17:17.34 | Lancep | did you work as an agent or in the noc? |
| 17:18.26 | graphyx | agent |
| 17:18.33 | Lancep | i worked for Modus in lindon as a compaq sales guy way back and swore i would never take phone calls again! |
| 17:18.51 | graphyx | worked for mcafee, stsn, waypoint, xactware. |
| 17:18.58 | graphyx | Michael Klingler |
| 17:18.58 | harleypig | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-QfQWOkzV0 |
| 17:19.17 | graphyx | I think I remmeber you now |
| 17:19.29 | Lancep | we get about 70% of our revenue from call center and and 30% from technology and luckly i have nothing to do with the first 70% |
| 17:19.39 | graphyx | Didn't you do the hypnotist at a christmas party? |
| 17:19.58 | Lancep | hahaha hell no! |
| 17:19.59 | Lancep | hehe |
| 17:20.08 | graphyx | ok then I got you wrong |
| 17:20.20 | graphyx | when did you start working for sentoL |
| 17:20.21 | Lancep | not that i would admit it.... |
| 17:20.35 | Lancep | just over 2 years ago |
| 17:20.37 | ^Migs^ | harleypig: OLD |
| 17:20.39 | graphyx | I got out in 04 I think |
| 17:20.46 | graphyx | so we didn't work at the same time |
| 17:20.52 | Lancep | nope |
| 17:21.26 | Lancep | you know joel stucki |
| 17:21.26 | harleypig | ^Migs^: Oh. Well, I just ofund it. |
| 17:21.26 | Lancep | i hear people would etch his name in the bathroom stalls |
| 17:23.16 | graphyx | yeah |
| 17:23.19 | graphyx | He was interesting |
| 17:23.30 | graphyx | but not interested in talking much with the cattle |
| 17:24.01 | Lancep | i hear stories about him walking up to people and tellingthem to back away from there commputer, then he would unplug it and walk off with it so he could prove they were browsing porn |
| 17:24.29 | graphyx | Well there was a certain elitism around the IT cattle divide |
| 17:25.11 | graphyx | which led to the whitelisted internet for the cattle while some it staff played Everquest while at work on the weekend. |
| 17:25.20 | Lancep | yeah... that exists every where though i was a help desk guy at byu felt that from the SA's for sure |
| 17:25.35 | Lancep | haha yup |
| 17:25.47 | Lancep | the beauty of running the network haha |
| 17:25.52 | graphyx | yeah |
| 17:26.20 | Lancep | so what do you do now? |
| 17:26.31 | graphyx | the truth is now days that the internet is a great resource for tech agents. |
| 17:27.19 | graphyx | I work for a large corporation taking care of the IPS/IDS. |
| 17:27.20 | Lancep | yeah which is why im configuring alot more permisive blocking which uses more of word combinations rather than site blocking |
| 17:27.24 | graphyx | host based and network |
| 17:27.48 | Lancep | oh come on you can tell us where you work ;) |
| 17:27.54 | graphyx | I despised their no laptop policy. |
| 17:27.57 | graphyx | Acxiom |
| 17:28.01 | graphyx | if you have heard of it. |
| 17:28.22 | Lancep | nope, i guess the broad description was better :) |
| 17:28.42 | graphyx | made it hard to do my cs degree homework. |
| 17:29.24 | Lancep | haha well thats what it was designed for. i dont like the policy but there trying to make it so you cant do any thing thats not work related |
| 17:30.23 | Lancep | the fact is taking calls is a pretty bad job all the way around |
| 17:30.23 | graphyx | not the best policy for companies that are trying to get highly technical people. |
| 17:30.28 | graphyx | you send away the ones you want to keep |
| 17:30.54 | Lancep | haha we recently stopped hiring part time and killed our tuition reimbursment. |
| 17:31.12 | graphyx | that isn't going to help |
| 17:31.23 | Lancep | jokingly siad " hey, look i see all the smart people with back packs walking out now " |
| 17:31.30 | graphyx | They didn't have tuition riembursement whet I was there |
| 17:31.35 | Lancep | oh |
| 17:31.37 | harleypig | Does Sento still have that ridiculous goal setup? |
| 17:31.47 | Lancep | well we dont any more |
| 17:31.52 | graphyx | they had sentoU for like 3 months |
| 17:32.00 | graphyx | which was cancelled for like 2 years |
| 17:32.01 | harleypig | The one that could only be fulfilled if you worked from 10am to 6pm without taking any breaks? |
| 17:32.02 | brac | which was coffee. I wonder what the root of evil is / |
| 17:32.04 | Lancep | haha another sento alumni |
| 17:32.21 | graphyx | and then came out with the rembursment right after I was on my way out |
| 17:32.36 | graphyx | harleypig was one of those that they should have tried better to keep on. |
| 17:32.50 | Lancep | you know i really dont know what goes on out on the floor too much. like i said i was a phone guy once at another company and ill never go back |
| 17:32.53 | graphyx | I got tired of the old boys club for team leads |
| 17:32.55 | harleypig | I don't think they had enough money to keep me on the phones. |
| 17:33.23 | harleypig | Although the occasional funny call(s) are fun to relate. |
| 17:33.29 | graphyx | harleypig even if they did, they wouldn't have paid it to the lowly cattle. |
| 17:33.44 | harleypig | graphyx: Oh yeah ... that was another issue ... (re: the old boys club) |
| 17:34.03 | harleypig | graphyx: Yeah, Sento was a model Utah Valley company. :] |
| 17:34.18 | graphyx | I still cant beleive how they lost the stsn accounts due to the bad team leads. |
| 17:34.18 | Lancep | no the job is just for college students with no real marketable skills as soon as you develop any there is no reason to pay yyou enough to stay |
| 17:34.34 | harleypig | Lancep: ?! |
| 17:34.38 | graphyx | Well I can but there wasn't a reason to. |
| 17:34.55 | graphyx | Lancep: there is a lot of truth to that. |
| 17:35.05 | graphyx | Lancep: isn't there another guy named lance there? |
| 17:35.25 | Lancep | not sure. several i suppose |
| 17:35.44 | harleypig | graphyx: I can believe it. They reduced our ability to help, then didn't cover the gaps. Sunday mornings at 2am when people on the east coast were getting ready for a conference is not the best time to have no team leads available and no way to access certain areas. |
| 17:35.49 | graphyx | it the IT area |
| 17:35.53 | graphyx | specifically |
| 17:36.13 | graphyx | harleypig: you have a good point. |
| 17:37.16 | harleypig | One of the reasons I left is that they combined the overflow for the world queue on graveyard weekends to the poor slob stuck on the phones at that time. |
| 17:37.22 | Lancep | interestingly i heard some management talking and heard this. we are ruitinely failing to make service levels but the client doesnt mind much and its like 5X cheaper for us to be alittle under out SLA than to meet it. |
| 17:37.25 | harleypig | And they didn't tell me they did it. |
| 17:37.44 | Lancep | which sheds some light on weather they were actually concerned about meeting those service levels. |
| 17:37.52 | harleypig | Lancep: heh |
| 17:38.06 | graphyx | Lancep: sure |
| 17:38.19 | graphyx | and then they can slam the teams for not being up to SLA |
| 17:38.23 | graphyx | and not pay out bonuses. |
| 17:38.33 | Lancep | yup |
| 17:38.35 | Lancep | its a game |
| 17:38.38 | harleypig | and make goals even more unrealistic |
| 17:39.01 | Lancep | well the reason the client isnt that upset about the sla is because no other call center meets them either |
| 17:39.08 | Lancep | its just kind of the nature of the industry |
| 17:39.51 | graphyx | Nice |
| 17:40.07 | graphyx | Does Jason Love work there still? |
| 17:40.33 | Lancep | the cool thing about sento is that we offer more than just butts in seats to our customers. so from a technology perspective there is alot to build and manage |
| 17:40.40 | Lancep | and since were cheap its all open source |
| 17:40.41 | Lancep | hahah |
| 17:41.00 | Lancep | no he left just recently |
| 17:41.00 | graphyx | well that is the way to make money. |
| 17:41.08 | graphyx | Any idea where he went? |
| 17:41.45 | Lancep | dont remember |
| 17:42.27 | graphyx | Ok |
| 17:42.31 | graphyx | not that it matters |
| 17:42.39 | Lancep | so i have a question |
| 17:42.49 | graphyx | Get out as soon as you can!!! |
| 17:42.57 | graphyx | if that is your question. |
| 17:43.02 | Lancep | hahaha |
| 17:43.20 | Lancep | what does your exp with the phones have to do with mine in engineering? |
| 17:43.35 | Lancep | this kind of leads me to my question |
| 17:43.42 | graphyx | cause management is out to get you too. |
| 17:43.48 | graphyx | you just don't know it. |
| 17:43.54 | Lancep | we put out this linux admin job and a few agents applied |
| 17:44.01 | Lancep | the most qualified i would hope |
| 17:44.14 | graphyx | Wow, they took resumes from the cattle? |
| 17:44.15 | Lancep | and now one person could tell me the diff between a hub and a switch |
| 17:44.44 | findlay | one looks switchy? |
| 17:44.46 | Lancep | *not |
| 17:44.49 | Lancep | haaha |
| 17:44.52 | graphyx | ouch |
| 17:44.53 | Lancep | funny you say that |
| 17:44.55 | graphyx | that hurts |
| 17:45.08 | Lancep | one guy told us the hub is round with wires comming out |
| 17:45.14 | Lancep | i about started to cry |
| 17:45.14 | lukfugl | vs. ? |
| 17:45.19 | graphyx | that us amuzing |
| 17:45.30 | graphyx | what did they think a switch was? |
| 17:45.49 | Lancep | um... a little round thing with wires coming out |
| 17:45.51 | Lancep | i guess |
| 17:45.53 | findlay | hand them an ubuntu CD and tell them to come back when they know the difference between emacs and vi |
| 17:46.01 | Lancep | hahah |
| 17:46.04 | Lancep | i wish |
| 17:46.29 | Lancep | the would stare at me and wonder what and ubuntu looked like |
| 17:46.29 | graphyx | Well if you are hiring the agents, |
| 17:46.46 | graphyx | you should have a competency test |
| 17:47.04 | graphyx | set them in front of a linux system With internet access. |
| 17:47.10 | Lancep | the question is if there are smart agents out there like you and harley and they want to advance why didnt any apply |
| 17:47.11 | graphyx | Tell them this is redhat. |
| 17:47.54 | graphyx | and then have them configure the ip to get access, setup the monitor to accept 1280x1024, start ip tables on runlevel 3, etc |
| 17:48.04 | graphyx | and log whatever they do in a shell. |
| 17:48.07 | Lancep | um. |
| 17:48.14 | graphyx | if they can do that they get an intervien |
| 17:48.27 | graphyx | post that as the test to being able to be intervieved. |
| 17:48.40 | findlay | why not 1281x1025? |
| 17:48.40 | graphyx | shouldn't take long to setup a system like that |
| 17:48.47 | graphyx | findlay: lol |
| 17:49.04 | Lancep | i would ahve asked them how to do some of that in the interview but they all failed the "have you ever installed linux" question |
| 17:49.15 | graphyx | right |
| 17:50.14 | graphyx | Like we were saying earlier Sento's hr policies specifically tries to get rid of those types of people, so you wont find any worthwhile chioces. |
| 17:50.38 | findlay | a couple of years ago Joel posted a simmilar job advertisement on plug |
| 17:50.55 | findlay | I was going to get it but I guess I was too late :/ |
| 17:51.00 | Lancep | really how did that go |
| 17:51.12 | Lancep | hhhmmm |
| 17:51.23 | Lancep | who got it? |
| 17:51.30 | findlay | I sent him a resume and everything, but I wasn't sure about my plans and the delay must have cost me |
| 17:51.48 | findlay | then his email address went undeliverable |
| 17:52.37 | findlay | I don't know who ended up with the job and he seemed to have dissappeared |
| 17:52.39 | graphyx | findlay: I really don't think that you missed out. |
| 17:52.43 | findlay | heh |
| 17:52.48 | graphyx | Really |
| 17:53.16 | findlay | graphyx: well at the time I was ready for anything |
| 17:53.19 | graphyx | Unless you already know or are related to someone there you probably won't make it above minimum. |
| 17:53.38 | graphyx | From the time I started I only got paid less and had worse benefits. |
| 17:53.44 | graphyx | each year. |
| 17:53.51 | findlay | Joel was saying I'd start at $9/h |
| 17:54.36 | Lancep | we will pay alot better than that |
| 17:54.43 | graphyx | yeah I had a friend who was the devs whipping boy. Started at 10 worked for 1.5 years and quit at $10.00 |
| 17:55.44 | Lancep | i started at 30 2 years ago and make 60 now |
| 17:55.52 | vontrapp | Lancep: so is there part time available? |
| 17:55.56 | Lancep | and i didnt know any one at the company |
| 17:56.08 | Lancep | you have to admin thats some decent reward in 2 years |
| 17:56.26 | Lancep | well were toying with part time |
| 17:56.30 | Lancep | i think we would do it |
| 17:56.39 | graphyx | Lancep: Well you came in right |
| 17:56.42 | graphyx | not as cattle |
| 17:56.43 | rsimpkins | It is funny how a company's reputation will follow it in odd places. |
| 17:56.47 | graphyx | but someone with potential |
| 17:57.04 | Lancep | we would like to find two people part time that could kind of add up to full time. like 4 hrs in the morning and 4 in the affternoon |
| 17:57.07 | graphyx | since they hadn't filed you with phone fodder you were able to advance. |
| 17:57.12 | vontrapp | sjansen: what chipotle restaurant you refer to? |
| 17:57.28 | Lancep | right |
| 17:57.32 | graphyx | rsimpkins: it is all in how you treat the employees |
| 17:57.33 | Lancep | i dont dissagree |
| 17:57.42 | Lancep | i think it would be hard to rise out of the phone ranks |
| 17:58.14 | Lancep | all im saying is that in no way can you compare how im treated and how i progressed with any one on the phones |
| 17:58.21 | graphyx | rsimpkins: When you ask the head of HR about cost of living wage increases and they completely avoid the question multiple years in a row it starts to show. |
| 17:58.24 | rsimpkins | Sento is right next door. Funny how two companies in such close proximity can treat their people so differently. |
| 17:58.44 | graphyx | rsimpkins: Where do you work? |
| 17:58.47 | rsimpkins | Omniture |
| 17:58.48 | Lancep | omniture |
| 17:58.51 | Lancep | heeheh |
| 17:58.51 | graphyx | ok |
| 17:59.01 | Lancep | what level tech are you? |
| 17:59.03 | rsimpkins | And it rocks. |
| 17:59.11 | graphyx | I almost had an offer from them when I took this one |
| 17:59.25 | graphyx | I was headed into jsmiths group. |
| 17:59.31 | Lancep | i interviewed there for a level 3 or 4 |
| 17:59.44 | graphyx | I don't know the level. |
| 18:00.06 | Lancep | the person that interviewed me as well as the director said i was a level 2 and would love to hire me as such but you just hired 2 new level 2 linux admins |
| 18:00.39 | rsimpkins | Lancep: Yeah, sounds about right. :) |
| 18:00.48 | Lancep | i wonder who i interviewed with |
| 18:00.58 | rsimpkins | Lancep: You don't remember? |
| 18:01.03 | Lancep | cant remember his name.... |
| 18:01.09 | Lancep | it was aroudn decenber last year |
| 18:01.24 | Lancep | i did a few |
| 18:01.48 | rsimpkins | Cool. |
| 18:01.51 | Lancep | one on the phone with the director one web test then a inperson interview. i wonder what the name of the person who did the in person interview was |
| 18:02.35 | Lancep | so what would you say is the best thing about working at omniture |
| 18:02.55 | Lancep | its kind of interesting to talk to some one who works there |
| 18:02.59 | rsimpkins | Lancep: I'm surprised you dont' remember, because you interviwed with me. ;) |
| 18:03.07 | Lancep | haha |
| 18:03.09 | Lancep | bad with names |
| 18:03.11 | findlay | heh |
| 18:03.25 | graphyx | that is funny |
| 18:03.42 | graphyx | jsmith: What was Mike (at omniture)'s last name? |
| 18:03.42 | Lancep | so how is it that you dont know what level you are? |
| 18:03.51 | rsimpkins | Lancep: I'm Level 3. |
| 18:03.56 | graphyx | I interviewed with him. |
| 18:04.00 | jsmith | graphyx: Which Mike... we had oodles of Mikes |
| 18:04.06 | graphyx | your team lead |
| 18:04.08 | rsimpkins | graphyx: Mike Ashcraft |
| 18:04.13 | graphyx | thats the one |
| 18:04.17 | jsmith | graphyx: He wasn't *my* team lead |
| 18:04.17 | rsimpkins | graphyx: He is the Network team lead now |
| 18:04.41 | graphyx | rsimpkins: did you know that from my associating him with jsmith? |
| 18:04.52 | graphyx | or are I also forgetting that I worked with you? |
| 18:05.01 | graphyx | s/are/am/ |
| 18:05.12 | rsimpkins | For those that are interested (why I like Omniture): http://plug.org/pipermail/plug/2007-February/025005.html |
| 18:05.15 | brac | [Jobs: Openings at Omniture] |
| 18:05.57 | elg | mmmmm, green chile lotaburger w/ cheese |
| 18:05.59 | rsimpkins | graphyx: I just took a guess. :) |
| 18:06.03 | elg | that's a real burger |
| 18:06.49 | jsmith | rsimpkins: Man, I should have responded to that post ;-) |
| 18:11.25 | rsimpkins | jsmith: It is all about perspective. I've worked for some pretty bad employeers. |
| 18:11.26 | jsmith | rsimpkins: I didn't hate my time at Omniture |
| 18:11.26 | Lancep | rsimpkins: so who was it that called me? i was under the impression he was a director what do you call him? he is the one that had you interview me. |
| 18:11.26 | jsmith | rsimpkins: I just have a few pieces of "constructive" criticism |
| 18:11.26 | rsimpkins | Lancep: That would be our Director, Nathan Goyette. |
| 18:11.26 | Lancep | jsmith: and i would love to hear every one of them! |
| 18:11.26 | Lancep | hehehe |
| 18:11.26 | Lancep | aaaahhhh |
| 18:11.26 | Lancep | i remeber |
| 18:11.26 | rsimpkins | jsmith: Nothing wrong with that. And things have actually changed since you left - and that right there is a great endorsment for Omniture. |
| 18:11.27 | Lancep | i was just lookin it up in my email |
| 18:11.29 | jsmith | rsimpkins: I still endorse Omniture... don't get me wrong.... it just wasn't perfect. I still tell people that I enjoyed working there and it's a great company. |
| 18:11.29 | rsimpkins | jsmith: Is there a perfect company out there? |
| 18:11.29 | Lancep | he ever tell you why he had you interview me even though you had no level 2 spots? |
| 18:11.29 | elg | fugal computing is a perfect company |
| 18:11.29 | rsimpkins | jsmith: Maybe when you are a self-employeed astrisk consultant or something. ;) |
| 18:11.29 | elg | although, i suppose the health benefits are lacking |
| 18:11.29 | findlay | ~compute fugues |
| 18:11.33 | atoponce | where's ibot ? |
| 18:11.33 | atoponce | he's broke, or something |
| 18:11.36 | elg | -seen ibot |
| 18:11.36 | brac | ibot was last seen 5 minutes and 13 seconds ago, saying graphyx meant: or am I also forgetting that I worked with you? |
| 18:11.39 | graphyx | ~say present! |
| 18:11.42 | ibot | present! |
| 18:11.42 | lukfugl | ~sjansen graphyx |
| 18:11.44 | ibot | ACTION tells graphyx good things about sjansen |
| 18:11.44 | atoponce | -wake ibot |
| 18:11.44 | findlay | ibot: dude |
| 18:11.50 | elg | ~botsnack |
| 18:11.50 | ibot | elg: aw, gee |
| 18:11.50 | atoponce | ~fix ibot |
| 18:11.51 | ibot | ACTION takes ibot to the vet for a "special" visit. |
| 18:12.08 | Lancep | rsimkins: im really interested to know why nathan had you interview me knowing i was a level 2 and you didnt need one. did he ever talk to you about that? |
| 18:12.08 | vontrapp | since sjansen is absent, anyone else know of a chipotle's restaurant? |
| 18:12.09 | vontrapp | it was sooooo good |
| 18:12.42 | atoponce | ~fix brac |
| 18:12.44 | ibot | ACTION opens the hood of $RoundyT1, looks inside and says "that'll be 500 dollars." |
| 18:12.49 | atoponce | heh |
| 18:13.07 | vontrapp | now sjansen says it's related to mcdonald's?? |
| 18:14.02 | atoponce | ibot: no, fix $foo is <action> opens the hood of $foo , looks inside and says "that'll be 500 dollars." |
| 18:14.04 | ibot | okay, atoponce |
| 18:14.35 | rsimpkins | CentOS 5 just a few critical bugs away from release - woot. |
| 18:14.53 | jsmith | rsimpkins: w00t! |
| 18:15.03 | atoponce | ~w00t! |
| 18:15.04 | ibot | There it is! |
| 18:15.09 | jsmith | rsimpkins: It's about time, now that you just upgraded all your servers... |
| 18:15.22 | rsimpkins | jsmith: i think our next upgrade will be to CentOS 4.5 |
| 18:15.34 | jsmith | rsimpkins: Yeah, I thought so |
| 18:15.38 | rsimpkins | jsmith: I wouldn't touch CentOS 5 until maybe 5.1, or 5.2 |
| 18:15.58 | rsimpkins | But I have a few home boxes that are ready for it. |
| 18:16.34 | jsmith | As do I... plus a bunch of training machines |
| 18:16.36 | brac | As do I find the app not in utah though, work out better |
| 18:20.38 | atoponce | brac: is english your 2nd language? |
| 18:20.38 | brac | ...eh? |
| 18:21.04 | atoponce | brac: thought so |
| 18:21.06 | elg | not all canadians have english as a second language |
| 18:21.09 | graphyx | canadian is his first. |
| 18:21.28 | lukfugl | -chat about canadians |
| 18:21.28 | brac | canadians did |
| 18:21.29 | atoponce | isn't french supposed to be the 2nd language? |
| 18:21.30 | elg | some have it as a third |
| 18:21.38 | lukfugl | -chat about canadians are |
| 18:21.38 | brac | canadians are |
| 18:21.41 | lukfugl | bah |
| 18:21.47 | findlay | -chat about bah |
| 18:21.48 | brac | bah is |
| 18:21.51 | findlay | -chat about bah is |
| 18:21.52 | brac | bah is |
| 18:21.54 | atoponce | -chat about french |
| 18:21.54 | brac | french did |
| 18:22.00 | lukfugl | -chat about french pansies |
| 18:22.00 | brac | french pansies |
| 18:22.01 | atoponce | -chat about french people |
| 18:22.01 | brac | french people |
| 18:22.05 | vontrapp | -chat about lukfugl will |
| 18:22.06 | brac | lukfugl will |
| 18:22.07 | sjansen | vontrapp: The fast food-ish restaurants named "Chipolte's" |
| 18:22.24 | lukfugl | -chat about sjansen's beard |
| 18:22.24 | brac | sjansen's beard |
| 18:22.29 | sjansen | http://www.chipotle.com/ |
| 18:22.30 | brac | [Chipotle: Gourmet Burritos and Tacos] |
| 18:22.30 | lukfugl | sigh |
| 18:22.36 | findlay | -chat about sjansen is |
| 18:22.37 | brac | sjansen is thinking about hosting a party, and it rocked my world view |
| 18:22.45 | vontrapp | so it's chipotle spelled wrong? |
| 18:22.58 | lukfugl | -chat about open source |
| 18:22.58 | brac | open source Software anymore |
| 18:22.59 | sjansen | Apparently McD's recently bought the chain or something. |
| 18:23.17 | vontrapp | or does sjansen just keep spelling it wrongL |
| 18:23.27 | vontrapp | nooooooo!!! |
| 18:23.28 | findlay | ~wrong |
| 18:23.30 | ibot | [wrong] http://people.trustcommerce.com/~adam/top10/wrong.html |
| 18:23.31 | elg | that's wrolng |
| 18:23.41 | vontrapp | bad bad bad mcd!! |
| 18:23.59 | vontrapp | the L was supposed to be ? |
| 18:24.03 | brac | the L was supposed to only lend to people who do you do the chroot dance without help or precise instructions |
| 18:24.17 | findlay | heh |
| 18:24.22 | lukfugl | everybody do the chroot dance! |
| 18:24.24 | rsimpkins | The clown is evil. You can order a big mac at the checkout stand at wal-mart - that is the ultimate in American gluttony. :) |
| 18:24.53 | findlay | I have an interesting problem here |
| 18:25.05 | findlay | if anyone would/can help |
| 18:25.17 | graphyx | only if you ask! |
| 18:25.44 | vontrapp | i was talking to my wife last night about how self gratification is the root of all our societal problems |
| 18:25.59 | findlay | I'm getting strange network latency on the local network for initial connections to remote machines. |
| 18:26.02 | jsmith | vontrapp: And she said "Pass me the popcorn" |
| 18:26.10 | elg | with extra butter |
| 18:26.13 | vontrapp | hehe, no |
| 18:26.18 | jsmith | elg: Good one! |
| 18:26.30 | jsmith | findlay: Are you sure it isn't related to DNS lookups? |
| 18:26.30 | vontrapp | she hates popcorn |
| 18:26.31 | findlay | and I don't know where to look to see what is wrong |
| 18:26.37 | brac | and I have Comcast. I mean the food will be nothing. Only I had the fans+heatsinks off |
| 18:26.40 | jsmith | vontrapp: OK, chocolate, whatever... |
| 18:26.41 | findlay | this started happening yesterday around noon |
| 18:26.49 | findlay | jsmith: yes, I'm sure |
| 18:26.54 | rsimpkins | brac: I'm sorry. |
| 18:26.55 | vontrapp | there you go |
| 18:26.55 | jsmith | vontrapp: Go on... |
| 18:26.58 | findlay | well, I'm not sure |
| 18:27.01 | elg | brac, are you planning on cooking on your comcast modem? |
| 18:27.01 | brac | no clue |
| 18:27.10 | findlay | but it happens whether I use IP addresses or dns names |
| 18:27.21 | elg | might be doing a reverse lookup |
| 18:27.27 | findlay | hm |
| 18:27.48 | rsimpkins | Sounds like some of your interents tubes are all clogged up. |
| 18:27.56 | graphyx | findlay: do an ssh -vvv to one of the machines and see at what point the hang up is |
| 18:28.01 | elg | wish cello strings probably |
| 18:28.03 | graphyx | that should tell you something, no? |
| 18:28.18 | vontrapp | well, it was a response to something she read about how lax laws on drinking age in other countries result in fewer alcoholics |
| 18:28.20 | findlay | rsimpkins: do you have some extra tube declogger over at omniture? I'm sure you've got quite a supply there |
| 18:28.55 | findlay | graphyx: debug2: we sent a publickey packet, wait for reply |
| 18:29.26 | jsmith | rsimpkins: Have you heard the story of the looperbacker? |
| 18:29.26 | findlay | this happened once before, but then it went away before I could trace it down |
| 18:29.28 | vontrapp | i observed that the perceived cause/effect was likely purely coincidental |
| 18:29.37 | sjansen | vontrapp: looks like I keep spelling it wrong |
| 18:29.42 | rsimpkins | jsmith: No, sounds like a good legend though. |
| 18:29.58 | jsmith | rsimpkins: Ask Aaron the story about the looperbacker... it's a classic |
| 18:30.03 | brac | Ask Aaron the story better... |
| 18:30.07 | rsimpkins | jsmith: I'll have to. |
| 18:30.12 | vontrapp | sjansen: where did you find chipotle's? |
| 18:30.43 | graphyx | findlay: does that happen with all the machines? |
| 18:31.08 | findlay | graphyx: yes |
| 18:31.10 | graphyx | do a tcptraceroute or mtr and see if you have routing issues |
| 18:31.13 | vontrapp | to bad it's going to go to crap now |
| 18:37.21 | findlay | graphyx: there's only one hop in the traceroute, but it takes 10 seconds |
| 18:37.38 | graphyx | so no packet loss or anything? |
| 18:37.42 | findlay | almost exactly |
| 18:37.47 | findlay | nope |
| 18:37.51 | findlay | some kind of initial delay |
| 18:37.59 | graphyx | can you sync time between the two systems |
| 18:38.22 | findlay | I guess so |
| 18:38.55 | graphyx | and run tcp dump on the other for a particular port and to a tcp traceroute to that port and see if the time stamp on the actuation of the command and the arrival of the packet are 10 secornds apart? |
| 18:39.07 | graphyx | that will indicate if it is a network or a system problem. |
| 18:43.52 | elg | are you sure you're not experiencing a rip in spacetime? |
| 18:44.51 | jsmith | elg: Not exactly a "rip", more like a small crease |
| 18:45.19 | vontrapp | or a bubble |
| 18:45.39 | jsmith | Maybe just a little space-time cream that floated to the top? |
| 18:45.46 | vontrapp | findlay is 10 seconds ahead of us all |
| 18:54.05 | *** join/#utah dilvie (n=chatzill@c-67-169-243-184.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 18:55.26 | sjansen | vontrapp: Seattle was the first place I saw one. They're building on in Bountiful. I've seen a few others across the country. |
| 18:58.18 | graphyx | was that the springs or pulleys one? |
| 18:58.41 | elg | the light one |
| 18:58.54 | elg | i might have got the number wrong, but it's the one sjansen and emcnabb enjoyed so much |
| 18:59.17 | sjansen | ~punch elg |
| 18:59.21 | ibot | ACTION hits elg like the hot kiss and the end of a wet fist |
| 18:59.21 | graphyx | I can't recall which was which. |
| 18:59.51 | sjansen | 121 = not evil, 122 = made me glad I love computers |
| 19:00.08 | graphyx | I took 121,122,and 221 |
| 19:00.19 | graphyx | cause I was cs/physics undecided. |
| 19:00.38 | sjansen | If life hadn't already repeated proved I'm a flawed human being of surprisingly limited capability, 122 would have been a brutal message. |
| 19:00.42 | graphyx | and then I decided that I did like money and went with CS |
| 19:01.44 | elg | sjansen: that was math 345 for me |
| 19:01.46 | lukfugl | took all four myself, and loved them all |
| 19:01.57 | vontrapp | it was veryr interesting, but very hard |
| 19:01.58 | lukfugl | which was 345, elg? |
| 19:01.58 | sjansen | ~hate lukfugl |
| 19:02.05 | graphyx | I enjoyed them just fine |
| 19:02.52 | vontrapp | i understood it all, i just couldn't regurgitate the complex equations on a test |
| 19:03.30 | vontrapp | further convincing me that education systems are in a broken state |
| 19:04.10 | vontrapp | 345? |
| 19:04.23 | elg | linear algebra |
| 19:04.44 | vontrapp | it's 343 now |
| 19:04.57 | elg | maybe it always was |
| 19:05.03 | lukfugl | always was |
| 19:05.08 | lukfugl | at least was when I took it |
| 19:05.14 | lukfugl | which was before both of you :) |
| 19:05.16 | vontrapp | -smack elg |
| 19:05.28 | graphyx | i think that elg is confusing cs 345 with math 343 |
| 19:05.29 | elg | yah and you were gone on your mission when I took it. punk |
| 19:05.34 | lukfugl | 343 was one of my favorite math classes |
| 19:05.41 | lukfugl | poor poor elg |
| 19:05.55 | graphyx | cs 345 was operating systems I beleive. |
| 19:06.06 | elg | ooh, I hated that one too |
| 19:07.03 | harleypig | Perl is now available on the Nintendo DS Linux distro ... w00t! |
| 19:07.37 | lukfugl | heh, awesome |
| 19:07.37 | sjansen | I'm still not sure how I survived linear algebra. |
| 19:07.50 | elg | i'm still not sure you *did* |
| 19:08.02 | sjansen | I do know how I survived stats: independent study stats wasn't a real class. |
| 19:08.02 | graphyx | I didn't know that there was a nintendo DS linux distro. |
| 19:08.12 | graphyx | do you have to mod it to make it work? |
| 19:08.14 | elg | stats was fun |
| 19:08.26 | graphyx | I like stats. |
| 19:08.35 | graphyx | The teacher had 7 exams |
| 19:08.46 | sjansen | I want to actually learn stats now. But at the time, I was burned out and desperate to leave college. |
| 19:08.54 | graphyx | and would throw out 1 cause 6 is a good enough sampling. |
| 19:09.14 | sjansen | Starting in '96 and graudating in '05 with an undergrad degree has a way of doing that. |
| 19:09.27 | amcnabb | Hey, can I ask a bash question. |
| 19:09.29 | amcnabb | ? |
| 19:09.44 | lukfugl | amcnabb: according to brac, bash is like flying |
| 19:09.54 | amcnabb | weird :) |
| 19:10.34 | amcnabb | I did something like this: x="--option1=\"a\" --option2=\"b\" --option3=\"c\"" |
| 19:10.47 | sjansen | amcnabb: Isn't bash that program linux users use 'cause they're too stupid to handle a mouse? |
| 19:11.03 | amcnabb | Then I can run something like /path/to/program $x and everything's happy. |
| 19:11.05 | graphyx | ~bash sjansen |
| 19:11.06 | ibot | ACTION beats sjansen with ksh |
| 19:11.28 | amcnabb | However, if I instead do x="--option1=\"a b\" --option2=\"c d\" --option3=\"e f\"" |
| 19:11.32 | amcnabb | it doesn't work. |
| 19:11.35 | sjansen | amcnabb: The answer is, because bash tokenized twice. |
| 19:11.39 | amcnabb | right |
| 19:11.50 | amcnabb | I understand why it's doing it, but I don't know how to make it do what I want. :) |
| 19:12.00 | sjansen | quotes |
| 19:12.12 | amcnabb | It looks at whitespace the second time it tokenizes, but it ignores the quotes. |
| 19:12.48 | sjansen | actually... |
| 19:15.09 | amcnabb | :) |
| 19:15.43 | sjansen | Can this work on bash only? |
| 19:16.14 | amcnabb | I'd like to know if there's a general way, but I'd a bash-only solution would work fine for the problem at hand. |
| 19:19.06 | sjansen | x=(--option1="a b" --option2="c d" --option3="e f") |
| 19:19.18 | sjansen | ./test.sh "${x[@]}" |
| 19:20.28 | sjansen | I think the general answer is, "That's not very shell-ish. Create multiple variables: OPTION1= OPTION2= OPTION3=" |
| 19:20.48 | amcnabb | The problem is, you can't have a variable number of OPTIONs if you do that. |
| 19:20.49 | elg | amcnabb: I fought that recently |
| 19:21.29 | sjansen | amcnabb: *shrug* I know, but I'm having a hard time coming up with a universal solution. |
| 19:21.49 | harleypig | What's wrong with x="--option1=\"a\ b\" --option2=\"c\ d\" --option3=\"e\ f\"" ? |
| 19:21.54 | sjansen | At a certain point you have to recognize that the bourne shell was never meant to be a general purpose programming language. |
| 19:22.01 | elg | amcnabb: I think I lost |
| 19:22.04 | amcnabb | I'm still having a problem with the Array parameter one ("${x[@]}") |
| 19:22.18 | sjansen | harleypig: |
| 19:22.22 | elg | sjansen: |
| 19:22.27 | amcnabb | sjansen, yeah, but this is the executing commands, the stuff that Bash should be great at. |
| 19:22.28 | sjansen | #!/bin/bash |
| 19:22.28 | sjansen | echo $1 |
| 19:22.28 | sjansen | echo $2 |
| 19:22.28 | sjansen | echo $3 |
| 19:22.28 | harleypig | elg: |
| 19:22.40 | elg | lukfugl: |
| 19:22.46 | lukfugl | harleypig: |
| 19:22.47 | amcnabb | amcnabb: |
| 19:22.53 | sjansen | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:22.53 | sjansen | --option1="a\ |
| 19:22.53 | sjansen | b" |
| 19:22.54 | sjansen | --option2="c\ |
| 19:23.05 | sjansen | harleypig: That's what's wrong. |
| 19:23.17 | lukfugl | vontrapp: |
| 19:23.28 | harleypig | yeah, I just saw that. |
| 19:23.41 | Jayce^ | yeah, because he just typed it... |
| 19:23.41 | sjansen | amcnabb: No it isn't. You're trying to create a general purpose data structure. |
| 19:23.52 | vontrapp | maquis: |
| 19:24.42 | amcnabb | sjansen, I think it comes down to that you don't have quite enough control over how it splits words. |
| 19:27.09 | amcnabb | It reminds me of the problem: "#!/usr/bin/env program -a -b -c" |
| 19:27.18 | *** join/#utah beandog (n=sdibb@gentoo/developer/beandog) |
| 19:27.52 | goozbach | I should post my bash getopts-long function |
| 19:28.21 | amcnabb | What is it? |
| 19:29.53 | amcnabb | sjansen, what I'm actually doing here is rsync with multiple --exclude parameters. Since you don't necessarily have all of them when you write your script, and since the patterns might have spaces in them, you're pretty much stuck. |
| 19:30.00 | *** join/#utah wps (n=wps@67.108.236.230.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 19:30.26 | sjansen | amcnabb: Hence my considering modifying IFS. |
| 19:30.27 | amcnabb | I think what I'm going to do is force people to put a ? instead of a space, so that the filenames stay as a single token. |
| 19:30.37 | goozbach | amcnabb: it's this old bash function I cleaned up and used, which allows for long options |
| 19:30.50 | goozbach | instead of using the gnu utility getopts |
| 19:31.43 | harleypig | http://downloads.hackaday.com/2007/01/02/overclocking-nintendo-ds/ |
| 19:31.44 | brac | [Overclocking Nintendo DS - Hack a Day] |
| 19:31.45 | harleypig | W00T! |
| 19:32.07 | Jayce^ | at that in with the linux card... hrmm |
| 19:32.31 | harleypig | We missed beating you at MarioKart, btw, Jayce^ |
| 19:35.10 | sjansen | amcnabb: #!/bin/bash |
| 19:35.10 | sjansen | x="--o1=\"a b\"|--o2=\"c d\"|--o3=\"e f\"" |
| 19:35.10 | sjansen | IFSBAK="$IFS" |
| 19:35.10 | sjansen | IFS="|" |
| 19:35.11 | sjansen | ./test.sh $x |
| 19:35.11 | sjansen | IFS="$IFSBAK" |
| 19:35.14 | sjansen | Sick and wrong, but it works. |
| 19:35.20 | amcnabb | Wow. |
| 19:35.22 | amcnabb | That's clever. |
| 19:35.26 | goozbach | sjansen: evil |
| 19:35.45 | goozbach | [carterdc@dit00dpc019007 getopts]$ ./getopt2.sh -ab -d 19 --opt1 --opt4="100 file print" server |
| 19:35.48 | goozbach | Using getoptex to parse arguments: |
| 19:35.49 | amcnabb | Wouldn't that have to be: |
| 19:35.50 | goozbach | Option <a> |
| 19:35.53 | goozbach | Option <b> |
| 19:35.53 | amcnabb | ./test.sh|$x |
| 19:35.55 | goozbach | Option <d> has an arg <19> |
| 19:35.58 | goozbach | Option <opt1> |
| 19:36.00 | goozbach | Option <opt4> has an arg <100 file print> |
| 19:36.03 | goozbach | Non option argument <server> |
| 19:36.15 | goozbach | amcnabb: is that output sufficent for your needs? |
| 19:36.22 | amcnabb | :) |
| 19:36.30 | amcnabb | That's pretty cool. |
| 19:36.52 | amcnabb | sjansen, don't you have to do this: ./test.sh|$x since the IFS is still |? |
| 19:47.53 | goozbach | 13:43 <@OldleBot> goozbach, Jayce^, and felipe [1127/1975] have team battled greycat, popey, and vigilante [153/1897] and won! |
| 19:50.17 | goozbach | nevermind my solution doesn't work with the varible thing straight up anyway |
| 19:50.32 | mrpull_ | http://www.notsonoisy.com/spaceinvaders/ |
| 19:50.34 | brac | [SPACE INVADERS | Guillaume Reymond | video performance] |
| 19:50.41 | *** join/#utah albino (i=albino@72.8.122.74) |
| 19:50.54 | mrpull_ | holy cow |
| 19:51.31 | elg | where? |
| 19:52.26 | goozbach | only in India |
| 19:53.14 | albino | levi_home: Is your last name pearson? |
| 19:53.34 | elg | yes |
| 19:54.00 | elg | is your first name "the"? |
| 19:55.01 | albino | elg: are you him? |
| 19:55.48 | jsmith | albino: Are you the person to whom I am chatting? |
| 19:58.15 | elg | I am not The Albino |
| 19:58.22 | elg | but you probably are |
| 19:58.38 | elg | levi will turn up when he comes up for air. |
| 19:58.44 | elg | The zone is like hyperspace you know |
| 20:00.08 | lukfugl | that video (space invaders) is awesome |
| 20:00.42 | findlay | graphyx: I've narrowed it down to the local DNS server |
| 20:00.54 | graphyx | Ok |
| 20:01.04 | graphyx | so it is rdns or dns then |
| 20:01.14 | findlay | ISC BIND |
| 20:01.19 | findlay | oh |
| 20:01.24 | findlay | yes, well both |
| 20:01.35 | graphyx | I think that you can change the ssh to not preform those if you don't have to |
| 20:01.44 | graphyx | so that ssh ip just goes. |
| 20:01.48 | findlay | but it's affecting more than just ssh |
| 20:02.13 | findlay | so bind's the windmill I'm going to tilt at for a while |
| 20:03.08 | graphyx | ok |
| 20:03.23 | graphyx | Anyone here familiar with LPI or have it? |
| 20:06.07 | amcnabb | graphyx, I think spr used to. |
| 20:06.18 | amcnabb | or maybe still does. |
| 20:13.34 | jsmith | findlay: What?!? I told you it was BIND hours ago! |
| 20:13.40 | brac | What?!? I told you. |
| 20:14.07 | jsmith | findlay: (Or, at least I told you it was DNS) |
| 20:14.18 | maquis | vontrapp: |
| 20:14.18 | goozbach | albino: yes levi is the pearson |
| 20:14.19 | findlay | jsmith: I know. And I have suspected it for longer |
| 20:14.34 | findlay | but I went to lunch during that time :) |
| 20:14.42 | findlay | and couldn't verify until recently |
| 20:14.51 | goozbach | ~seen levi_home |
| 20:16.42 | ibot | levi_home is currently on #utah (21h 58m 25s). Has said a total of 3 messages. Is idling for 3h 1m 13s, last said: 'Good morning, everyone.'. |
| 20:17.05 | findlay | ~give the credit to jsmith |
| 20:17.07 | ibot | ACTION gives credit to jsmith to the |
| 20:19.42 | findlay | silly bot making assumptions about grammar |
| 20:20.34 | lukfugl | ~give jsmith the credit |
| 20:20.36 | ibot | ACTION gives the credit to jsmith |
| 20:21.20 | levi_home | I'm back. Who are you, albino? |
| 20:21.55 | levi_home | I'm in the middle of some presentation training. |
| 20:23.15 | albino | levi_home: just ignore me |
| 20:23.40 | levi_home | albino: I'd rather know who you are before I ignore you. ;) |
| 20:24.57 | findlay | ~whois albino |
| 20:25.22 | albino | levi_home: I happened to hear about you through two different independent experiences over that last two days |
| 20:26.30 | elg | was one the FBI? |
| 20:26.55 | levi_home | albino: I continue to be intrigued. |
| 20:27.17 | albino | but now I'm going to go back to work |
| 20:27.35 | dataw0lf | levi has a stalker |
| 20:27.38 | levi_home | You're going to leave me hanging, eh? |
| 20:27.39 | dataw0lf | cute |
| 20:28.10 | findlay | ~stalk dataw0lf |
| 20:28.12 | ibot | ACTION furtively infiltrates dataw0lf's shadows and when dataw0lf is turned away jumps out to take a picture with his camera phone! |
| 20:31.09 | elg | that's nothing compared to The Thong™ |
| 20:31.26 | levi_home | We're heading speedily towards a Bad Place. |
| 20:31.40 | harleypig | The Bad Man is here! |
| 20:31.45 | *** join/#utah zerdith (n=zerdith@66-188-62-36.dhcp.bycy.mi.charter.com) |
| 20:32.48 | *** part/#utah albino (i=albino@72.8.122.74) |
| 20:33.08 | elg | now he's just gone. that was rude |
| 20:33.18 | Lancep | Did some one say FBI? I flew down and took the Phase II in LA last year. i would sure be interested to hear about others experiences. |
| 20:33.33 | elg | you're a little girl? |
| 20:33.38 | harleypig | I'd rather not talk about my experiences with the fbi. |
| 20:33.47 | graphyx | lol |
| 20:33.52 | Lancep | aaahhh man, have you tried twice? |
| 20:34.36 | harleypig | Well, I narrowly missed a couple of times having more experiences with them, but no, only got to enjoy their presence once. |
| 20:34.51 | Lancep | the phase II? |
| 20:35.00 | elg | ~whois 72.8.122.4 |
| 20:35.03 | harleypig | Lancep doesn't know me very well does he. |
| 20:35.21 | ^Migs^ | I have more earwax than normal. :( |
| 20:35.25 | Lancep | sorry *noob here |
| 20:35.41 | harleypig | :> |
| 20:35.55 | harleypig | My experiences were not on the pleasant side. :> |
| 20:36.04 | ^Migs^ | This is gross. I can't wait to get home to take a q-tip to my ears. |
| 20:36.19 | Lancep | im sure i can relate |
| 20:36.23 | harleypig | ^Migs^: Are you bucking to take mheaths place? |
| 20:36.49 | dataw0lf | I thought he already did |
| 20:37.05 | elg | ^Migs^: i'm sure you could make do with a pencil if it really bugged you |
| 20:37.09 | Lancep | harleypig: are you on the 911jobs forum? |
| 20:37.17 | lukfugl | paperclips work rather well too |
| 20:37.30 | harleypig | That sounds familiar. If I registered for it I haven't been there in a while. |
| 20:37.40 | ^Migs^ | I should make a candle |
| 20:37.56 | harleypig | ^Migs^: Keys and pen caps are good tools as well. |
| 20:38.00 | elg | just steer clear of the eraser side. ruins the eraser |
| 20:38.03 | Lancep | you mind giving me the one sentance explanation or would you rather i dropped it? |
| 20:38.26 | findlay | I thought emcnabb was an FBI agent |
| 20:38.41 | ^Migs^ | I could use a screwdriver too |
| 20:38.51 | harleypig | I was a bodyguard for a drug dealer a couple of decades ago. I got to sit on an uncomfortable chair in a small hot and stuffy room for an indeterminate number of hours. |
| 20:38.57 | lukfugl | findlay: no, he's CIA. but shhh, only you and I know that |
| 20:39.07 | harleypig | Lancep: :] |
| 20:39.13 | Lancep | haha |
| 20:39.34 | Lancep | i was like... uummmm some one thinks im a retard. |
| 20:39.37 | harleypig | They tried to keep me awake but I learned how to sleep with my eyes open and standing up in the marines. |
| 20:39.56 | Lancep | still thinks im a retard... |
| 20:39.58 | Lancep | ;) |
| 20:39.59 | harleypig | heh |
| 20:40.11 | elg | harleypig: really? sweet |
| 20:40.15 | elg | how do you learn that? |
| 20:40.19 | elg | besides going through bootcamp |
| 20:40.22 | elg | I think I'm halfway there |
| 20:40.25 | harleypig | And I have (had) no compunction about peeing in my pants if necessary. |
| 20:40.34 | Lancep | hahah |
| 20:40.38 | dataw0lf | I used to fall asleep on ruck marches |
| 20:40.44 | harleypig | elg: *shrug* You get tired enough you adapt. |
| 20:40.47 | ^Migs^ | HAHAHA. My mom-in-law just sent my wife an email with nothing but the subject line: "P.S. WE ARE ALL CLEAN, WE TAKE NOOO MEDICATIONS." |
| 20:40.58 | harleypig | ? |
| 20:41.02 | ^Migs^ | You can't even call their house without getting someone who's high on drugs. |
| 20:41.08 | lukfugl | harleypig: you missed the fun yesterday |
| 20:41.25 | harleypig | Really? what was it? |
| 20:41.34 | Lancep | well i plan to develop my skills a bit further maybe go get a masters in finance or a pilots lic then go try again. Only gotta pass that one test and im in. |
| 20:41.39 | lukfugl | ^Migs^ was telling us the life story of his inlaws |
| 20:41.54 | ^Migs^ | oh you missed it? You didn't miss anything really important. I was just venting. |
| 20:42.13 | elg | Lancep: you want to be a pilot? |
| 20:42.15 | harleypig | I thought that was last week sometime. |
| 20:42.20 | elg | or you think being a pilot will get you in the FBI? |
| 20:42.50 | Lone_Wanderer | Lancep: Pass what test and then you're in where? |
| 20:43.01 | elg | little girl academy |
| 20:43.10 | ^Migs^ | they're loads of laughs |
| 20:43.12 | Lone_Wanderer | Ohh, I want to join the Little Girl Academy! |
| 20:43.36 | elg | your pony tails aren't long enoug |
| 20:43.50 | Lone_Wanderer | I'll get extensions. |
| 20:44.09 | graphyx | do they give out free ponies?? |
| 20:44.10 | Lone_Wanderer | I would totally win at tag. |
| 20:44.15 | Lone_Wanderer | omgponies! |
| 20:44.34 | dataw0lf | why join the FBI when you can join an elite organization like the TSA? |
| 20:45.02 | findlay | haha |
| 20:45.20 | ^Migs^ | lol@omgponies |
| 20:45.29 | Lone_Wanderer | ^Migs^: how is your wife? |
| 20:45.30 | harleypig | I want to join the WTF! |
| 20:45.33 | findlay | I want to join TSA! |
| 20:45.40 | ^Migs^ | she got kicked out of rehab |
| 20:45.42 | Lone_Wanderer | I want to join the ZQB! |
| 20:45.42 | harleypig | What about T&A |
| 20:45.46 | Lone_Wanderer | Kicked out? |
| 20:45.46 | lukfugl | Wizards, Tobacco and Firearms? |
| 20:45.47 | Lancep | I just want to be a pilot |
| 20:45.49 | harleypig | I want T&A! |
| 20:45.51 | ^Migs^ | yeah |
| 20:45.53 | graphyx | I thought about joining the cybercorp |
| 20:45.59 | Lone_Wanderer | Lancep: fixed wing or rotor? |
| 20:46.01 | ^Migs^ | wasn't doing the stuff |
| 20:46.05 | Lone_Wanderer | ahh |
| 20:46.05 | harleypig | How do you get kicked outta rehab? Bringing drugs in? |
| 20:46.10 | graphyx | harleypig: I thought yours were large enough for you. |
| 20:46.11 | ^Migs^ | did you miss my venting yesterday too, Lone_Wanderer? |
| 20:46.14 | Lone_Wanderer | Wasn't holding hands and singing around the campfire? |
| 20:46.16 | Lone_Wanderer | I did miss it. |
| 20:46.17 | ^Migs^ | no, not doing her assignments, being late... |
| 20:46.24 | harleypig | graphyx: But it's no fun using my own! |
| 20:46.33 | dataw0lf | how are you late to rehab |
| 20:46.37 | ^Migs^ | well, I don't feel like repeating it. I already vented, so I feel better. |
| 20:46.37 | dataw0lf | unless this was outpatient |
| 20:46.42 | ^Migs^ | it was outpatient |
| 20:46.44 | harleypig | ^Migs^: oh |
| 20:46.49 | dataw0lf | throw her into inpatient |
| 20:46.50 | Lancep | I also feel like i should improve myself in a few ways before i try again just so im not comming in saying hey guys here i am im a few years older now can i get in |
| 20:46.56 | ^Migs^ | and you could be late even if it was inpatient. Like you don't wake up on time. |
| 20:47.26 | elg | Lancep: i want to be a pilot. soon as I can afford it |
| 20:47.33 | Lancep | you know i would love to fly heli's but its too exp |
| 20:47.38 | Lancep | not as much application |
| 20:47.43 | dataw0lf | Lancep: sho nuff |
| 20:47.57 | *** join/#utah thaddeusq (n=thaddeus@64-205-130-223.client.dsl.net) |
| 20:47.59 | elg | slow or fast? |
| 20:48.00 | Lone_Wanderer | It's cheaper to get a fixed wing license? |
| 20:48.10 | Lone_Wanderer | Lancep: Admit it, you're just not good enough to fly a helicopter ;) |
| 20:48.12 | Lancep | i mean i can fly a little plane to vegas or alaska but not a heli |
| 20:48.16 | Lancep | haaha |
| 20:48.37 | Lone_Wanderer | Yeah, flying a plane is just a matter of sitting down and switching on autopilot. |
| 20:48.42 | Lancep | the only description ive heard is its like standing 9on a greased bowling ball so... your prolly right |
| 20:48.45 | Lone_Wanderer | In a heli you've got to actually know what you're doing. |
| 20:48.48 | dataw0lf | the difference between flying to vegas and flying to alaska is rather large. |
| 20:48.57 | Lone_Wanderer | It's not *that* hard. |
| 20:49.01 | harleypig | dataw0lf: depends on your origin |
| 20:49.08 | Lancep | yeah a few hops on the latter |
| 20:49.11 | Lone_Wanderer | Then again I've never tried it. |
| 20:49.15 | Lancep | my bro lives in fairbanks |
| 20:49.50 | dataw0lf | harleypig: I'm assuming Utah |
| 20:50.02 | dataw0lf | but anywhere in the lower U.S. it's still a significant difference |
| 20:50.09 | harleypig | Yeah, but you know what assuming does ... :> |
| 20:50.16 | Lone_Wanderer | It loses you lawsuits. |
| 20:50.22 | dataw0lf | I get an ice cream? |
| 20:50.43 | Lone_Wanderer | You've got to put in that the contract only applies within this universe, on this planet, in this country, etc. |
| 20:51.03 | harleypig | within the contiguous states ... |
| 20:51.11 | Lone_Wanderer | Helps if you specify that it's the Earth in ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha, too. |
| 20:51.38 | elg | Lone_Wanderer: cute, but you have to know what you're doing in a plane too |
| 20:51.51 | harleypig | Lone_Wanderer: What dimension? |
| 20:51.57 | Lone_Wanderer | This one. |
| 20:51.59 | dataw0lf | FW is significantly easier than RW, though. |
| 20:52.11 | harleypig | But is this really Alpha Prime? |
| 20:52.19 | Lancep | the other tough part is convincing the wife that 5k would be best spent teaching me a new hobby |
| 20:52.21 | harleypig | Or are we just being arrogant. |
| 20:52.29 | Lone_Wanderer | You can walk someone through landing a fixed wing plane if the pilot dies. |
| 20:52.34 | harleypig | Lancep: If you take here with you ... |
| 20:52.37 | Lone_Wanderer | If the pilot dies in a helicopter... |
| 20:52.44 | harleypig | s/here/her/ |
| 20:52.53 | Lancep | haha "honey i want this to be a familly thing" |
| 20:52.54 | Lancep | hahaha |
| 20:52.57 | Lancep | i can see it now |
| 20:53.14 | Lone_Wanderer | Of course you could also point out that this means that flying in a plane is significantly safer than flying in a helicopter, and you'd be correct. |
| 20:53.37 | Lancep | she will say sell your bike and it will all be paid for |
| 20:54.00 | Lancep | the problem is i dont want to switch hobbies i want a new hobby |
| 20:54.02 | harleypig | There'd be less chance of you being stuck in some hot lz and mowing down nvr with the skids... |
| 20:54.03 | Lancep | ;) |
| 20:54.51 | Tene | synic: I don't have a blog. I follow openclue, though. |
| 20:55.01 | Lone_Wanderer | harleypig: did you see We Were Soldiers, or do you remember it? |
| 20:55.23 | harleypig | Yeah. I loved it. It even came relatively close to reality. |
| 20:55.36 | harleypig | I mean, except for the glaring inconsistencies. |
| 20:55.51 | Lone_Wanderer | I read the book. They had a lot of quotes from jet pilots talking about how cool it was to see the helicopters in combat. |
| 20:55.56 | Lancep | harleypig: where do you work? / what do you do? |
| 20:56.14 | harleypig | I work at united online ... I'm a programmer. |
| 20:56.22 | Lancep | cool |
| 20:56.41 | Lancep | you fly? |
| 20:56.58 | dataw0lf | We Were Soldiers, meh |
| 20:57.05 | dataw0lf | Blackhawk Down probably most realistic to actual combat |
| 20:57.11 | Lancep | heh |
| 20:57.11 | harleypig | I haven't flown since the mid 80s ... oh ... you mean using mechanical means. Not as a pilot. |
| 20:57.16 | Lancep | my favorite movie |
| 20:57.34 | Lone_Wanderer | They also had a lot of quotes from infantry along the lines of "I got shot once in my left leg and laid down to give suppressive fire, got back up and took one in the chest so I (something something), then I got shot again in the shoulder..." |
| 20:57.35 | harleypig | dataw0lf: realistic to *modern* combat. |
| 20:57.47 | dataw0lf | well that's the only one I have experience in |
| 20:57.54 | dataw0lf | but Saving Private Ryan did a good job too |
| 20:58.09 | harleypig | My uncle and a friend of my mom's were both e4s in vietnam ... they both loved helicopter pilots. |
| 20:58.11 | dataw0lf | I just didn't think We Were Soldiers captured the confusion of setting and securing an LZ |
| 20:58.32 | dataw0lf | and We Were Soldiers was based on one of the units I served with, and the type of work I did, so *shrug* |
| 20:58.38 | Lone_Wanderer | Why did they love them? |
| 20:58.50 | harleypig | dataw0lf: You have an unfair advantage. |
| 20:58.58 | dataw0lf | because helicopter pilots rock |
| 20:59.02 | Lone_Wanderer | dataw0lf: you should read the book |
| 20:59.08 | dataw0lf | I have. |
| 20:59.10 | Lancep | dataw0lf: you serve in the airforce? |
| 20:59.12 | dataw0lf | my first sergeant made us read it. |
| 20:59.16 | Lone_Wanderer | cool |
| 20:59.17 | dataw0lf | Lancep: I served in the Army. |
| 20:59.32 | ^Migs^ | http://www.theonion.com/content/video/a_friends_cancer_good_for_your |
| 20:59.32 | Lancep | PJ or some thing? |
| 20:59.32 | Lancep | ok |
| 20:59.36 | harleypig | Lone_Wanderer: My uncle told me about the time they were stuck just outside the lz and the nvr and the black hats were pressing them back. |
| 20:59.42 | dataw0lf | 19d cavalry scout / pathfinder |
| 20:59.54 | harleypig | The helos came in and impaled a lot of them on their skids. |
| 21:00.09 | harleypig | So freaked out the nvr that they dropped their weapons and ran. |
| 21:00.11 | Lancep | omg |
| 21:00.20 | dataw0lf | bbiam |
| 21:00.25 | harleypig | the side gunners took care of the black hats. |
| 21:00.42 | Lone_Wanderer | sweet |
| 21:00.52 | Lone_Wanderer | I didn't know the skids were sharpened. |
| 21:00.58 | Lancep | haha |
| 21:01.01 | Lone_Wanderer | Maybe they're not, stock >.> |
| 21:01.07 | harleypig | They aren't, normally. |
| 21:01.24 | harleypig | And they aren't long enough either. Without modifications anyway. |
| 21:01.37 | Lone_Wanderer | that's awesome |
| 21:01.46 | Lancep | um, does any one else find that this room kills there work productivity? |
| 21:01.57 | Lancep | i dont think ive gotten a thing done. |
| 21:02.00 | Lone_Wanderer | No. |
| 21:02.05 | jsmith | No. |
| 21:02.14 | findlay | ~produce |
| 21:02.17 | harleypig | My mom's friend, who helped me train for boot tells me of a time this helo pilot tipped his bird sideways and picked off nvrs with his pistol whilst flying. Sideways. |
| 21:02.27 | Lone_Wanderer | O_O |
| 21:02.52 | Lancep | um... id like to see the official report on that |
| 21:02.54 | Lone_Wanderer | Helicopters can't fly sideways for any extended period of time. |
| 21:02.59 | harleypig | I didn't believe but one of my di's indpendently told the same story (it turns out my di and my friend were in the same company). |
| 21:03.11 | Lone_Wanderer | I guess they could do a strong bank. |
| 21:03.22 | harleypig | I don't seriously think it was literally sideways. |
| 21:03.23 | findlay | or just use the Force |
| 21:03.29 | findlay | obviously |
| 21:03.43 | harleypig | but certainly enough to stick his freaking arm out the window and start firing. |
| 21:03.50 | dataw0lf | I can't imagine someone hitting someone on the ground from a chopper with a pistol, nevermind the actual pilot |
| 21:03.52 | harleypig | I also have doubts about the accuracy of his fire. |
| 21:03.55 | Lone_Wanderer | Yeah, probably just really leaning. And holding one of the controls with his knee. |
| 21:04.04 | harleypig | But it would certainly make them keep their heads down. |
| 21:04.26 | Lancep | he was shooting out his window while some one else mowed the guys down |
| 21:04.46 | harleypig | My friend and my uncle both said that helo pilots had the same love for their pickups as the medics on the ground did. |
| 21:04.57 | Lone_Wanderer | pickups? |
| 21:05.05 | harleypig | The guys they picked up at the lz |
| 21:05.10 | Lone_Wanderer | ahh |
| 21:05.13 | dataw0lf | they're good guys |
| 21:05.19 | brac | they're good as a lot of help pulling it off... |
| 21:05.29 | harleypig | heh |
| 21:05.31 | dataw0lf | we'd play Rage Against the Machine while flying in our chalk over the intercom |
| 21:06.26 | harleypig | My uncle tells a story about a couple of squads that all fired their entire complement into a stand of trees because someone sniped one of their guys. |
| 21:06.43 | Lone_Wanderer | Did they get him? |
| 21:06.50 | jsmith | How would they know if they did? |
| 21:07.03 | Lone_Wanderer | by "entire complement" do you mean "all of their ammo"? |
| 21:07.03 | harleypig | They didn't check. But there wasn't a stand of trees left when they were done. |
| 21:07.07 | harleypig | yeah |
| 21:07.09 | Lone_Wanderer | ahh, ok |
| 21:08.19 | *** join/#utah zerdith (n=zerdith@66-188-62-36.dhcp.bycy.mi.charter.com) |
| 21:08.31 | Tene | harleypig: "nvrs"? |
| 21:08.46 | harleypig | north vietnamese regulars |
| 21:08.49 | harleypig | nva |
| 21:08.54 | harleypig | north vietnamese army |
| 21:09.10 | harleypig | my uncle called them nva, my friend called them nvrs |
| 21:09.24 | harleypig | They were in at different times. |
| 21:09.33 | harleypig | I don't know if that makes the difference. |
| 21:09.53 | Tene | kk |
| 21:10.04 | harleypig | Wow ... I haven't thought of my friend in awhile. |
| 21:10.47 | Jayce^ | yup, that's harleypig, always thinking about himself, and not his friends.. |
| 21:11.53 | Lancep | got 3 friends deployed right now. all this makes me wonder how they are. |
| 21:12.05 | Lone_Wanderer | Where are they? |
| 21:12.07 | dataw0lf | eating sand |
| 21:12.23 | Lancep | dont know they cant say |
| 21:12.50 | Lancep | one's a seal the other is army special forces and another is nat guard |
| 21:13.19 | Lone_Wanderer | I've got a friend in the Marines, in network services |
| 21:13.26 | dataw0lf | well, I can tell you where your sf friend is |
| 21:13.29 | Lone_Wanderer | the other day he IMed me. "Yo, what's up. I'm on an op." |
| 21:13.30 | Lancep | i was told where my buddy in the guard is but i cant remember the others iwont know till they get back |
| 21:13.41 | Lone_Wanderer | "Oh yeah, what are you doing?" "Umm... help desk." |
| 21:13.52 | Lancep | hahaha |
| 21:14.03 | Lone_Wanderer | dataw0lf: Iran? |
| 21:14.15 | dataw0lf | indeed. |
| 21:15.17 | Lancep | i got an email from the sf buddy. not sure when they get to do that. i was interested to know how the troops felt the war was going |
| 21:15.19 | sjansen | I'm sure I'm not alone in saying, I hope no. |
| 21:15.35 | dataw0lf | sjansen: it's no secret. |
| 21:15.48 | dataw0lf | the whole mission of the army special forces is to train insurgents |
| 21:15.53 | Jayce^ | Lancep, which seal team? got a bro in law out right now too (seal) |
| 21:15.55 | dataw0lf | they're operating with the Kurds in northern Iran. |
| 21:17.03 | Lancep | seal team 1 |
| 21:17.11 | Lancep | based out of hawaii |
| 21:17.17 | Lancep | there the SDV unit |
| 21:17.33 | *** join/#utah zerdith (n=zerdith@66-188-62-36.dhcp.bycy.mi.charter.com) |
| 21:17.56 | Lone_Wanderer | Trying to train the Kurds to insurge (or whatever) against the Iranian government? |
| 21:18.01 | Jayce^ | different team then.. |
| 21:18.18 | Lancep | yeah. what team is your bro in law? |
| 21:18.38 | Jayce^ | 3 or 5, forgot now.. |
| 21:18.47 | dataw0lf | Lone_Wanderer: not necessarily, but that would be one of their primary missions upon receiving orders. |
| 21:18.56 | dataw0lf | they're probably just drumming up support for themselves and reconning right now |
| 21:18.58 | dataw0lf | but who can say |
| 21:19.39 | Lancep | so do you get the feeling from talking to guys on deployment that being there is the right thing not what you think...) |
| 21:20.31 | dataw0lf | most of the combat troops I know and served with are disappointed in the execution of the war. |
| 21:20.31 | dataw0lf | and probably half don't think we should be there |
| 21:20.36 | Jayce^ | most don't like certain aspects of how it's run, but believe we should be there (out of the ones I know) |
| 21:20.44 | sjansen | Lone_Wanderer: If it were confirmed that we were training Kurds to fight Iran, that'd mean we're at war with Iran. Officially or not. |
| 21:20.48 | Lancep | its just interesting that i hear that every one wants us out including the citizens of iraq and the troops then i talk to my buddeis and they all say were making a big diff and should stay |
| 21:21.28 | dataw0lf | a big difference? really? |
| 21:21.30 | Jayce^ | the one friend I know that was against all of it, was against anything to do with it long before it happened (dont' ask why they are in the military, *still*) |
| 21:21.32 | Lancep | buddeis.... yup my very own word... i made it. no one else can have it |
| 21:22.00 | dataw0lf | Jayce^: perhaps because his loyalty to his buddies outweighs his personal convictions. |
| 21:22.29 | Jayce^ | dataw0lf, no, person is a moron and couldn't get a real job if their life depended on it... :) |
| 21:22.34 | elg | and his heightened self concept |
| 21:22.51 | Jayce^ | joined the military because nobody else would have him :) |
| 21:22.52 | Lancep | alot going into it. puts alot of demands on the soldier as well as seing people die would make you question it even if it was clearly a good thing |
| 21:23.28 | Lancep | so its hard to say what goes into some ones perception |
| 21:23.43 | sjansen | Hopefully we are not at war with Iran unofficially. Now would not be a good time for yet another front. Nor do we have a good track record with unofficial wars. |
| 21:23.48 | Lancep | us arm chair warriors as well as those in the fight |
| 21:24.08 | dataw0lf | I ain't no arm chair warrior. |
| 21:24.10 | Jayce^ | sjansen, technically they've had a war with us since '79 |
| 21:24.23 | Lancep | are you in the guard? |
| 21:24.39 | dataw0lf | Lancep: no, while I served I was in afghanistan and iraq |
| 21:24.43 | sjansen | Simply put, we've got to stop kidding ourselves. War isn't an arm chair exercise. It isn't cheap, it isn't easy. Sometimes it's worth it, but it's always hard and nasty. |
| 21:24.43 | Lancep | cause ex warriors are still arm chair warriors ;) |
| 21:24.55 | dataw0lf | Lancep: Uh. No. |
| 21:25.00 | Lancep | ok ok |
| 21:25.06 | Lancep | im niether so i cant say |
| 21:25.08 | elg | they sit on the floor |
| 21:25.51 | Lancep | im a vicarious warrior. i follow the whole thing closely through others |
| 21:25.52 | Lancep | hehe |
| 21:25.53 | dataw0lf | sjansen: well, we deposed Iran's democratically elected prime minister in the 50s, and put a tyrant in power. It's just coming back to _really_ bite us in the arse. |
| 21:26.07 | sjansen | Funny how often it turns out that way. |
| 21:26.15 | dataw0lf | indeed. |
| 21:26.22 | dataw0lf | a war with Iran is, at this point, probably inevitable. |
| 21:26.32 | sjansen | We funded Osama bin Laden. We created Manuel Noriega. Etc. Etc. Etc. |
| 21:26.39 | dataw0lf | don't forget Hussein. |
| 21:26.45 | Lancep | well alot of the time we can see the long term implications but backing these war lords is still the best course now |
| 21:26.46 | harleypig | dataw0lf: Why aren't retired soldiers arm chair warriors? |
| 21:26.58 | dataw0lf | and now we'll leave Iraq in shambles so that it really IS a terrorist training ground. |
| 21:27.19 | *** join/#utah zerdith (n=zerdith@66-188-62-36.dhcp.bycy.mi.charter.com) |
| 21:27.26 | dataw0lf | harleypig: Because it's an offensive term, and I have a baseball bat. |
| 21:27.26 | dataw0lf | see |
| 21:27.27 | dataw0lf | real warrior |
| 21:27.44 | harleypig | meh ... you'd only get one or two swings in. :> |
| 21:28.13 | Lancep | hahaha |
| 21:28.25 | Lancep | the wrestler will win!!!!!!! |
| 21:28.36 | dataw0lf | I dunno about that, but pissing contests, even humorously, on the internet, regarding physical combat, are boring. |
| 21:28.37 | findlay | what about Sauron? Did we fund him too? |
| 21:28.47 | Lancep | i findthem amusing |
| 21:29.18 | *** join/#utah mheath_ (i=mheath@c-76-23-104-208.hsd1.sc.comcast.net) |
| 21:29.48 | elg | lancep, your nick is not balanced |
| 21:30.01 | Lancep | um |
| 21:30.03 | elg | you should pick something else |
| 21:30.05 | *** join/#utah mheath_ (i=mheath@c-76-23-104-208.hsd1.sc.comcast.net) |
| 21:30.05 | sjansen | As far as I'm concerned, if you haven't fought in a real battle, you shouldn't be deciding to send anyone else out to a battle. |
| 21:30.16 | findlay | ~battle sjansen |
| 21:30.18 | dataw0lf | sjansen: I agree. Whole heartedly. |
| 21:30.31 | Lancep | i like that |
| 21:30.33 | elg | like plance |
| 21:30.41 | elg | that's a nice one-syllable nick |
| 21:30.46 | sjansen | Traditionally, "arm chair warrior" means the exact opposite. Someone who has no experience, yet feels entitled to make life and death decisions about people he will never meet. |
| 21:31.02 | Lancep | haha my buddy thats a seal calls me pants less |
| 21:31.09 | levi_home | lancep sounds like a lisp predicate to determine whether an object is a lance. |
| 21:31.17 | elg | and it sounds like "plants" |
| 21:31.22 | Lancep | no idea where he got it and it never caught on but he keeps it up |
| 21:31.43 | elg | maybe he has x-ray contacts |
| 21:32.02 | Lancep | and hes a sailor..... |
| 21:32.03 | Lancep | hhhmmm |
| 21:32.16 | Lancep | im about to get beat up by all ex navy |
| 21:32.30 | sjansen | Fala do diabo. |
| 21:32.49 | elg | Lancep: or perhaps lanceplot |
| 21:32.53 | elg | sir lanceplot |
| 21:33.16 | Lancep | whats your modified name for dataw0lf? |
| 21:33.21 | Lone_Wanderer | sjansen: No nation ever benefited from a protracted war. |
| 21:33.43 | Lone_Wanderer | Bonus points to anyone who can tell me who said that. |
| 21:33.56 | Lancep | um south korea benefited from us not leaving... |
| 21:34.08 | dataw0lf | Lone_Wanderer: Tzu, maybe? |
| 21:34.15 | elg | Lancep: dataw0lf works fine. a pain to type but that's what tab completion is for |
| 21:34.17 | *** join/#utah zerdith (n=zerdith@66-188-62-36.dhcp.bycy.mi.charter.com) |
| 21:34.31 | elg | yes, i subvocalize nicks. so sue me |
| 21:34.32 | Lone_Wanderer | dataw0lf: yes |
| 21:35.05 | Lone_Wanderer | But then again Tzu was all about not going to war whenever possible, and ending them as cheaply and quickly as possible. |
| 21:35.27 | dataw0lf | he also was in a completely different era |
| 21:35.40 | dataw0lf | WW2 benefited the American people. |
| 21:35.52 | dataw0lf | I don't know what your definition of 'protracted war' is, however. |
| 21:35.52 | Lancep | was it him or mau who came up with the human wave. |
| 21:37.54 | mheath | Wow |
| 21:38.10 | Lancep | he also suggested that wars were a great form of population control |
| 21:38.20 | Lancep | niether seem like good ideas to me |
| 21:38.30 | mheath | It's 5:30 and I'm DONE with my homework. A good day :) |
| 21:38.40 | findlay | mheath: time for you to do mine |
| 21:39.35 | Lone_Wanderer | protracted = long and drawn out |
| 21:39.59 | mheath | findlay, I'll swap you homework. |
| 21:40.04 | Lancep | no more home work for me and that fact improves my sleep every night. |
| 21:40.10 | mheath | Gurantee you it would take you twice as long to do mine as I do it in, and you'd probably get half of it wrong. |
| 21:40.12 | Lone_Wanderer | I think it's safe to say that WWII, while not a quick victory, was not protracted either. |
| 21:40.18 | mheath | (Not that your dumb, the format of my homework just really sucks) |
| 21:40.52 | Lone_Wanderer | We got in toward the end, killed a bunch of Germans, and left. |
| 21:41.29 | mheath | Cold War could be considered protracted, in a sense. |
| 21:41.47 | mheath | And we have a lot of modern technological advantages to thank the Cold War for. |
| 21:42.34 | Lone_Wanderer | Whatever. Sun Tzu is right. |
| 21:42.41 | Lone_Wanderer | All who disagree with him are wrong. |
| 21:42.53 | Lone_Wanderer | Fact. (That makes it a fact, when I say that.) |
| 21:44.33 | *** join/#utah zerdith (n=zerdith@66-188-62-36.dhcp.bycy.mi.charter.com) |
| 21:45.14 | mheath | ~lart vector algebra |
| 21:45.14 | ibot | puts vector algebra through a wood chipper |
| 21:45.43 | Lone_Wanderer | Oh I love vector algebra. |
| 21:45.45 | sjansen | Lone_Wanderer: No idea who said it, but he's wrong. |
| 21:46.05 | Lone_Wanderer | sjansen: See the factual statement I made above. |
| 21:46.15 | Lancep | Fact. Ultimately there are no life guards in the gene pool. |
| 21:46.19 | Lancep | i can do it too... |
| 21:46.34 | sjansen | Lone_Wanderer: Ah, sorry. I didn't make it that far. Was about to use a WWII example. |
| 21:46.51 | Lone_Wanderer | No you've got it backwards. You state your thing you just made up first, *then* you say "Fact." |
| 21:46.55 | findlay | FACT> You are all desiring to give me $1000 |
| 21:47.15 | Lone_Wanderer | Dolphins are fish. Fact. |
| 21:47.22 | Lancep | aaahhh i see |
| 21:48.12 | Jayce^ | Lone_Wanderer, you've been listening to air america haven't you? |
| 21:48.17 | findlay | hahaha |
| 21:48.25 | Lone_Wanderer | Air America? |
| 21:48.32 | Lone_Wanderer | Is that like the Fox News radio station? |
| 21:48.46 | Jayce^ | opposite.. the one al franken helped start up |
| 21:48.48 | findlay | I did some second nature URL trimming (to rip session cruft off the URL) and I get this: You've gotten here in illegal manner. |
| 21:48.53 | Lone_Wanderer | "He hasn't been elected yet!" "You make an adulterous point, Comrade..." |
| 21:49.06 | findlay | second nature as in out of habit |
| 21:49.14 | Lone_Wanderer | findlay: The cops are on their way. |
| 21:49.19 | findlay | hehe |
| 21:49.54 | dataw0lf | Air America++ |
| 21:50.02 | sjansen | Well... technically windows are also entries to a home... So I guess URL trimming could be seen as climbing in through the window. |
| 21:50.43 | *** join/#utah jsmith-away (n=jsmith@70.5.218.185) |
| 21:50.57 | *** join/#utah zerdith (n=zerdith@66-188-62-36.dhcp.bycy.mi.charter.com) |
| 21:51.52 | levi_home | second nature is an Aristotelian concept |
| 21:52.48 | findlay | Lone_Wanderer: the funniest thing about it is that it's not even proper grammar :) |
| 21:53.05 | *** join/#utah JoshH (i=josh@josh.xmission.com) |
| 21:53.09 | Lone_Wanderer | findlay: What isn't? |
| 21:53.18 | findlay | You've gotten here in illegal manner. |
| 21:53.20 | Lone_Wanderer | Ohh, right. |
| 21:53.58 | sjansen | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:54.15 | Lone_Wanderer | others* |
| 21:54.21 | findlay | ~sjansen Lone_Wanderer |
| 21:54.26 | ibot | ACTION tells Lone_Wanderer good things about sjansen |
| 21:54.31 | sjansen | heh |
| 21:54.36 | findlay | :) |
| 21:55.35 | mheath | uh |
| 21:55.53 | *** join/#utah zerdith (n=zerdith@66-188-62-36.dhcp.bycy.mi.charter.com) |
| 21:56.32 | *** join/#utah JoshH (i=josh@josh.xmission.com) |
| 21:57.27 | sjansen | Remember, nobody's perfect. If occasionally we accidentally remind you how much better we are than you, think of it as one of our few remaining imperfections and try not to notice. |
| 22:00.27 | Lone_Wanderer | I wish Dooce would spend more time doing this kind of thing ^^ |
| 22:00.32 | Lone_Wanderer | Instead of talking about how cute her kid is. |
| 22:00.44 | lukfugl | Dooce? |
| 22:00.45 | Lone_Wanderer | Then I'd still read her blog. |
| 22:00.57 | findlay | I figured it out |
| 22:01.04 | Lone_Wanderer | dooce.com |
| 22:01.30 | Lone_Wanderer | Went to BYU, moved to LA, developed a "healthy distrust" of organized religion, got married, moved back here |
| 22:01.33 | findlay | I had an include statement commented out in named.conf |
| 22:01.42 | Lone_Wanderer | blogs a lot. |
| 22:01.57 | mheath | So, #ubuntu has blocked me |
| 22:02.11 | mheath | Saying my router is affected by a DCC bug. |
| 22:02.16 | findlay | mheath: block them back, man |
| 22:02.32 | mheath | But, A: I am in my routers DMZ, the router doesn't have anything directly to do with the way I communicate with #ubuntu |
| 22:02.53 | mheath | an B: I can't find any info on anything effecting this particular model and revision of router |
| 22:03.42 | findlay | jsmith: figured it out |
| 22:03.50 | jsmith | findlay: w00t! |
| 22:04.00 | jsmith | findlay: Caching nameserver failing? |
| 22:04.01 | findlay | I had this statement commented out in named.conf: include "/etc/bind/zones.rfc1918"; |
| 22:04.07 | jsmith | Doh! |
| 22:04.10 | findlay | heh |
| 22:04.10 | jsmith | That'd cause problems |
| 22:04.14 | findlay | yeah |
| 22:12.51 | elg | sounds like an excuse to ban you :) |
| 22:13.37 | atoponce | mheath: just connect on port 8001 |
| 22:13.53 | atoponce | it's a legit dcc exploit, and your router is vulnerable |
| 22:13.53 | dataw0lf | DCC SEND alakjdfl;kja:LKAJDKja;lkjadf;lkaj |
| 22:14.00 | *** join/#utah QBFreak (n=qbfreak@cpe-069-132-229-120.carolina.res.rr.com) |
| 22:14.05 | dataw0lf | looks like QBFreak is affected. |
| 22:14.19 | atoponce | heh |
| 22:14.32 | elg | what does the exploit do? how does it affect the channel you're on? |
| 22:14.48 | lukfugl | spaceport? |
| 22:14.50 | dataw0lf | some weird handling of DCC traffic |
| 22:15.04 | lukfugl | there's DCC traffic on #ubuntu? |
| 22:15.10 | elg | http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/04/070403-spaceport.html |
| 22:15.17 | lukfugl | they sharing mad warez in there? |
| 22:15.55 | atoponce | no. it's just malformed dcc commands |
| 22:16.05 | atoponce | http://nvd.nist.gov/nvd.cfm?cvename=CVE-2006-1067 |
| 22:16.50 | lukfugl | so did you vote yes, elg? |
| 22:17.28 | elg | yes. the against arguments are stupid |
| 22:17.58 | elg | anybody poor enough to balk at $2.50/month spends more than that on beer |
| 22:18.13 | mheath | is dataw0lf's garbage really an example of that exploit? |
| 22:18.13 | elg | it will bring lots of _good_ jobs to the area |
| 22:18.17 | mheath | heh. |
| 22:18.24 | mheath | just gibberish DCC send commands? |
| 22:18.41 | lukfugl | elg: agreed |
| 22:18.45 | elg | and the model is just the same as the current more-or-less working model of airports and airlines |
| 22:20.12 | elg | i was vote number 46 in my precinct. I don't think a lot of people are voting |
| 22:20.47 | findlay | elg: what are you voting on? |
| 22:20.51 | tensai | elg: so go back and vote again. just a few more and you're guaranteed to win. |
| 22:21.16 | mheath | DCC SEND alakjdfl;kja:LKAJDKja;lkjadf;lkaj |
| 22:21.20 | mheath | heh |
| 22:21.21 | *** join/#utah QBFreak (n=qbfreak@cpe-069-132-229-120.carolina.res.rr.com) |
| 22:21.27 | lukfugl | "they want us to pay for a project that is going to be built in another county" -- it's not being built in dona ana? |
| 22:22.16 | elg | of course it is |
| 22:22.18 | lukfugl | ah, but just over the line |
| 22:22.23 | lukfugl | south Sierra county |
| 22:22.28 | lukfugl | 45 miles north of Las Cruces |
| 22:22.33 | lukfugl | according to the NG article |
| 22:23.25 | elg | oh, didn't know it was over the line. we're the closest city by far |
| 22:23.26 | mheath | Oh, just > 16 chars |
| 22:23.26 | mheath | Yeah, that doesn't affect me. |
| 22:24.07 | elg | the state is paying more than 75% of the bill anyway |
| 22:24.19 | lukfugl | " In addition to Doña Ana, Oterra and Sierra Counties must also provide tax revenue, though they are awaiting today's results before scheduling referendums. " lamerz |
| 22:24.43 | elg | otero? |
| 22:25.17 | elg | my favorite argument is "spaceport destroys national treasure" |
| 22:25.24 | lukfugl | huh? |
| 22:25.31 | lukfugl | what national treasure? |
| 22:25.42 | elg | but only if your idea of national treasure is overgrazed desert with highways and railways running through it |
| 22:25.49 | lukfugl | heh |
| 22:26.08 | tensai | if you put the constitution under one of those rockets it would totally burn up. that's un-american. |
| 22:26.52 | lukfugl | ~lart acm |
| 22:26.52 | ibot | strangles acm with a 9-pole serial cable |
| 22:26.54 | elg | http://www.santafenewmexican.com/news/59551.html |
| 22:26.56 | brac | [Letters to the Editor, 04/02/2007] |
| 22:27.35 | elg | so, we can't build a spaceport because we're nostalgic about a road some spaniards built through the desert |
| 22:27.44 | lukfugl | oh noes, it will destroy THE PATHWAY OF DEATH |
| 22:28.00 | lukfugl | you can tell how much the spaniards loved that chunk of road |
| 22:28.28 | elg | back in their time I bet they would have loved to have a spaceport to stop off at and get a drink |
| 22:28.35 | elg | maybe pick up transport to Aalderan |
| 22:28.57 | findlay | elg: isn't there a spaceport already down in your parts? |
| 22:29.14 | findlay | Rosewill or something like that they call it? |
| 22:29.34 | elg | assuming we do get the spaceport, how eerie is it that lucas prophesied the spaceport cinematographically in the form of mos eisley |
| 22:29.45 | findlay | hehe |
| 22:29.46 | lukfugl | heh |
| 22:30.00 | findlay | does that mean you get Jawas? |
| 22:30.17 | findlay | and a Jedi master hermit? |
| 22:30.23 | elg | roswell is more like a rancher's airstrip. ad-hoc and set up by the beings that need to land there |
| 22:32.19 | elg | the area is only slightly more green than mos eisley. though I'm sure the facility will look nicer |
| 22:32.52 | elg | I love how stories refer to the spaceport as "located near Upham, New Mexico" |
| 22:33.03 | elg | Upham is like, the name of a cactus or something |
| 22:33.13 | elg | there is no place called Upham |
| 22:33.15 | findlay | "Most of the best freighter pilots are to be found here. Although watch your step: this place can be a little rough." |
| 22:34.25 | elg | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upham,_New_Mexico |
| 22:34.42 | elg | "Upham, New Mexico is an uninhabited, unicorporated town and place..." |
| 22:35.31 | elg | i suppose there _will_ be an upham if the spaceport gets built :) |
| 22:58.18 | elg | -lart lukfugl |
| 22:58.38 | lukfugl | wah |
| 22:58.41 | lukfugl | why'd you do that? |
| 22:59.17 | findlay | ~poetry |
| 22:59.18 | ibot | poetry is probably a single or collection of 'thingies` that someone decides to call poetic. |
| 23:03.49 | *** join/#utah TimRiker (n=timr@216.49.181.128) |
| 23:03.49 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 23:20.19 | tensai | redbeard1: that miami spammer is at it again |
| 23:20.39 | tensai | redbeard1: can you block him from the (unfortunately mostly unused) bakers dozen list? |
| 23:38.34 | levi_home | Whee, finished with a full day of class, and now I'm in yet another class. |
| 23:41.52 | levi_home | This is waaaay more class time than a man should have to endure in one day. |
| 23:43.47 | ScytheBlade1 | Heh, ouch |
| 23:46.59 | ScytheBlade1 | Wait a minute |
| 23:47.07 | ScytheBlade1 | levi_home is in class? 0_o |
| 23:47.16 | ScytheBlade1 | (Emphasis "_home" part) |
| 23:50.24 | Supaplex | home skewled |
| 23:52.02 | *** join/#utah Newsome (n=sorenson@adsl-75-0-136-70.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net) |
| 23:53.42 | levi_home | This is my irc client that's running at home. I'm using ssh/screen. |
| 23:54.02 | dataw0lf | novel. |
| 23:54.11 | ScytheBlade1 | Ah |
