| 00:00.00 | dataw0lf | if you keep on divulging things like 'ha, this is the test I have to do, blah blah' |
| 00:00.17 | dataw0lf | what's to stop you from saying 'yea, I'm going to Port X on July X to report for X duty' |
| 00:00.23 | dataw0lf | it isn't about individual information |
| 00:00.24 | vontrapp | now terrorists now you go for runs off base |
| 00:00.34 | dataw0lf | it's about correlation between information |
| 00:00.35 | mheath | dataw0lf, the fact that I've been specifically told to not do that? |
| 00:00.38 | brac | it's about the hidden politics |
| 00:00.46 | dataw0lf | if I can map your training schedule |
| 00:00.48 | vontrapp | yes, brac |
| 00:00.48 | tene | brac++ |
| 00:00.50 | mheath | Whereas nothing I say now is contradictory to the very thorough seurity briefs I received. |
| 00:00.52 | dataw0lf | and others training schedule |
| 00:00.57 | dataw0lf | and then map your deployment |
| 00:01.16 | dataw0lf | what do you think happens when I map your deployment with, 50, 100, others that I've mapped? |
| 00:01.16 | mheath | Erm |
| 00:01.25 | dataw0lf | because you've become used to talking too much |
| 00:01.36 | dataw0lf | I can map exactly when your nuke X docks |
| 00:01.45 | dataw0lf | I can map exactly when you board nuke X |
| 00:01.49 | mheath | dataw0lf, http://www.cnrc.navy.mil/nucfield/today/training.jpg |
| 00:01.55 | findlay | ~report dataw0lf |
| 00:02.06 | dataw0lf | and I can probably correlate where you're going |
| 00:02.06 | mheath | Thats a heck of a lot more detailed than anything I've divulged. |
| 00:02.06 | dataw0lf | this is all information that's useful. |
| 00:02.11 | dataw0lf | you don't think it's useful, that's the point. |
| 00:02.15 | brac | you don't really use a OS, you can get one |
| 00:02.21 | dataw0lf | it's useless by itself |
| 00:02.32 | dataw0lf | but intelligence isn't gathered from one source, mheath |
| 00:02.36 | dataw0lf | I'm recon, I know this, man |
| 00:02.56 | dataw0lf | but I gotta leave, I'll talk to you in a bit |
| 00:04.27 | findlay | ~unpause channel |
| 00:05.40 | findlay | max approaches |
| 00:05.40 | tene | findlay: thanks. |
| 00:05.55 | findlay | you can hear him singing half a mile away |
| 00:06.07 | findlay | ~pause tene |
| 00:06.12 | findlay | ~unpause tene |
| 00:06.20 | tene | Ack. |
| 00:06.25 | tene | ~lart findlay |
| 00:06.25 | ibot | dumps 42 tons of dirt, manure, and fish heads on findlay |
| 00:06.36 | findlay | ~pause me |
| 00:06.53 | findlay | help, I'm p |
| 00:07.00 | tene | ~unpause findlay |
| 00:07.20 | findlay | ausedbm&*&^Thanks tene |
| 00:07.41 | *** join/#utah Supaplex (i=supaplex@166-70-62-199.ip.xmission.com) |
| 00:09.06 | vontrapp | mmm, osc to control bzflag |
| 00:09.13 | vontrapp | that's cool |
| 00:09.34 | findlay | so TimRiker is giving it up? |
| 00:09.47 | vontrapp | giving what up? |
| 00:09.53 | findlay | bzflag |
| 00:10.05 | vontrapp | no, this is an ai bot module |
| 00:10.07 | findlay | or just moving it off SF? |
| 00:10.19 | findlay | of, heh |
| 00:10.24 | vontrapp | osc is Open Sound Control |
| 00:10.35 | vontrapp | ~osc is Open Sound Control |
| 00:10.39 | ibot | vontrapp: okay |
| 00:10.39 | findlay | I thought you meant open source consortium or something official like that |
| 00:11.14 | findlay | ~dell vontrapp |
| 00:11.16 | ibot | Dude! vontrapp's getting a dell! |
| 00:11.26 | vontrapp | sweet! mythbox!! |
| 00:11.35 | vontrapp | whose providing? |
| 00:11.36 | findlay | I wonder how I can add that to the ~lart list |
| 00:11.59 | *** join/#utah nick125_lappy (n=nick@nat.nick125.com) |
| 00:12.03 | findlay | ibot, naturally |
| 00:12.55 | vontrapp | ~naturally is <respond> according to findlay |
| 00:12.56 | ibot | vontrapp: okay |
| 00:13.08 | levi_home | http://www.blacksheep-themovie.com/ |
| 00:13.17 | vontrapp | good movie |
| 00:13.43 | vontrapp | the motion picture industry just needs to get themselves a domain already |
| 00:13.52 | vontrapp | blacksheep.themoviedomain.com |
| 00:14.13 | vontrapp | if they were less worried about suing everyone and more about sound business practices |
| 00:14.13 | brailsmt | i have this subscription music that I am paying for from yahoo!, my prescription is current, but I can't play my music on linux, is there anyway I can get past the DRM to play it on linux? |
| 00:14.25 | nick125_lappy | brailsmt: not legally |
| 00:14.38 | tene | brailsmt: probably. I'm pretty sure I heard that encryption was cracked. |
| 00:14.45 | vontrapp | brailsmt: don't use yahoo! |
| 00:15.07 | brailsmt | vontrapp: you know of a better service that supports linux? |
| 00:15.14 | vontrapp | not yahoo! |
| 00:15.25 | brailsmt | not really an answer |
| 00:15.43 | vontrapp | what do you need? music? just be illegal until someone treats us like real humans |
| 00:16.19 | brailsmt | right, that's what I'm looking for :) |
| 00:16.51 | brailsmt | i just fine with yahoo music, i'd just like to play the music on linux |
| 00:16.54 | vontrapp | gtk-gnutella is a good place to start |
| 00:16.58 | brailsmt | thx |
| 00:17.17 | vontrapp | lotso pr0n though, be careful what you search for |
| 00:17.51 | vontrapp | though the worst you would do without downloading it is seeing a descriptive filename |
| 00:17.54 | tene | I can send you invites to demonoid or oink, brailsmt. |
| 00:19.01 | *** join/#utah dataw0lf_ (n=wps@208.53.47.251) |
| 00:20.33 | findlay | ~banish pr0n from the intarwebs |
| 00:21.16 | tene | findlay: where are you sending it to? |
| 00:22.00 | vontrapp | to the squirrelweb |
| 00:22.00 | findlay | ~banish pr0n from the intarwebs |
| 00:22.03 | ibot | ACTION erases pr0n from the intarwebs into ineffable bit aether |
| 00:22.30 | findlay | tene: to CP80 of course! |
| 00:22.47 | findlay | isn't that what they wanted? To have it all to themselves? |
| 00:23.08 | findlay | just keep that slime away from me |
| 00:23.19 | tene | Ahh. |
| 00:23.30 | vontrapp | cp80? |
| 00:24.10 | findlay | http://cp80.org/ |
| 00:26.37 | tene | cp80-- |
| 00:30.26 | vontrapp | does cp80 stand for something? |
| 00:30.35 | tene | common port 80 |
| 00:30.44 | vontrapp | ah, thought it was something like that |
| 00:31.06 | tene | suggested legislation to put the "good internet" on port 80 and the "porn internet" on another port number |
| 00:31.40 | tene | and probably eventually the "gay internet" on the gay port, the "canadian internet" on the canada port, etc. |
| 00:32.21 | vontrapp | yeah, would be nice, but whose gonna make sure open channels stay off 80? |
| 00:32.44 | tene | the "athiest internet" on the athiest port |
| 00:32.55 | vontrapp | whose gonna make sure legit things don't get censured from 80? |
| 00:33.14 | vontrapp | um, consored |
| 00:33.33 | tene | The well you see, vontrapp, if "good people" could be offended by it, possibly, then you need to protect them from it. |
| 00:33.43 | tene | -The |
| 00:34.23 | tene | Good Moral Christians. |
| 00:35.08 | vontrapp | isn't there already legislation in place that says you can't get to a porno site without age verification? doesn't that already Just Not Work(tm)? |
| 00:36.21 | tene | vontrapp: this way, there's a clear identifier for porn sites that you can use to block them without trying to label them or catagorize or whatever stuff that doesn't work so well. |
| 00:36.45 | tene | Or, y'know, just block everything that's not on 80. Everything that the government doesn't approve of. |
| 00:37.07 | vontrapp | my point is, adult sites have to verify ones age before letting them in, and they don't |
| 00:37.23 | vontrapp | now we tell them they have to be on port xxx, and guess what, they won't be |
| 00:38.06 | vontrapp | the down side of cp80 is the "block everything the govt doesn't approve of" default caveat |
| 00:38.13 | vontrapp | with no upside, really |
| 00:38.24 | tene | vontrapp: that's the upside, from their POV |
| 00:38.31 | vontrapp | hehe |
| 00:38.31 | tene | with no downside |
| 00:39.00 | vontrapp | true dat |
| 00:40.11 | vontrapp | and how is dns going to work in this brave new world? does a name resolve to an address _and_ port? |
| 00:40.38 | vontrapp | or do you have to know what channel the site you're looking for is on beforehand? |
| 00:40.46 | vontrapp | it's just a bad idea |
| 00:40.48 | vontrapp | </rant> |
| 00:41.41 | tene | vontrapp: it's a very bad idea. |
| 00:42.37 | vontrapp | bunch o bigwigs that know next to nothing about the underlying protocols and the implications of what they propose |
| 00:43.51 | tene | Well, yeah. |
| 00:44.02 | tene | But they have money! That's why we voted for them, right? |
| 00:46.31 | vontrapp | and unfortunately there's a large voting public that doesn't know any better, and when people would appose it they're anti american |
| 00:56.24 | *** join/#utah sontek (n=sontek@c-67-161-252-206.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 01:12.40 | mheath | ~lart ironing summer uniforms |
| 01:12.40 | ibot | hooks into a hydrant and hoses ironing summer uniforms down |
| 01:18.42 | emcnabb | ~lart mheath |
| 01:18.42 | ibot | does a little 'renice 20 -u mheath' |
| 01:28.02 | *** join/#utah neybar (n=jalance@209.210.190.233) |
| 01:36.36 | sontek | I want in on some of this |
| 01:36.37 | sontek | ~lart mheath |
| 01:36.37 | ibot | stabs mheath |
| 01:36.50 | mheath | Heh |
| 01:40.53 | mheath | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krVACUbciJE |
| 01:40.54 | mheath | I |
| 01:41.03 | mheath | I've never listened to early Johhny Cash before |
| 01:41.14 | mheath | He sounds much less polished than later recordings of the same songs. |
| 01:47.44 | sontek | bring it on! |
| 01:53.42 | nick125_lappy | What server? :p |
| 01:53.44 | brailsmt | but i deleted bzflag from my machine because it was taking too much time |
| 01:53.54 | nick125_lappy | lol |
| 01:54.11 | brailsmt | but i would still kill you :) |
| 01:54.12 | brailsmt | a lot |
| 01:55.00 | brailsmt | i used to play at Two Towers until about a month ago |
| 01:56.40 | mheath | Wow. Johnny Cash did a Nine-Inch Nails cover? (I'm assuming it's not vice-versa; it's not at all his style of song) |
| 01:57.48 | brailsmt | http://my.bzflag.org/playerinfo.php?callsign=D34TH_5MURF |
| 01:57.52 | brailsmt | ^-- Me |
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| 02:02.47 | *** join/#utah linuxalien (i=UNKNOWN@oalug/member/linuxalien) |
| 02:17.47 | *** join/#utah ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) |
| 02:17.47 | *** topic/#utah is The channel for OSS discussion in Utah | http://www.plug.org/node/28 | Utah Open Source Conference - September 6-8, 2007 | Get off my lawn you stupid kids! |
| 02:17.47 | *** mode/#utah [+o ibot] by ChanServ |
| 02:39.26 | *** join/#utah ti`ocpi (n=Chelle@143-106.dynamicpool.suu.edu) |
| 02:42.50 | QBFreak | ibot: darn |
| 02:54.40 | nick125_lappy | Ugh, this is fun |
| 02:54.48 | nick125_lappy | I have to port some code from django 0.95 to django 0.96 |
| 02:56.39 | elg | how do you get thunderbird to forget the password to an account without deleting the account? |
| 02:56.59 | elg | I accidentally told it to remember my wife's password and now I'm getting notified when she has new mail :( |
| 02:57.43 | nick125_lappy | go to edit->preferences->privacy->passwords->view saved passwords |
| 02:57.58 | nick125_lappy | then remove the password from the list |
| 02:58.47 | elg | thanks |
| 02:58.50 | nick125_lappy | sure |
| 03:01.10 | *** join/#utah spencer312 (n=spencer@pool-71-179-25-46.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net) |
| 03:03.01 | spencer312 | what is the equivalent command from rpm -q for apt? |
| 03:03.39 | jsmith | spencer312: dpkg -l? |
| 03:03.41 | elg | what does -q do? |
| 03:04.00 | spencer312 | actually I'm looking for rpm -ql which lists the files in a package |
| 03:04.07 | jsmith | elg: It queries the RPM database |
| 03:04.22 | elg | dpkg -L |
| 03:04.27 | elg | dpkg -L foobar |
| 03:04.29 | jsmith | Yeah, that's it |
| 03:04.37 | spencer312 | yes, thank you |
| 03:05.00 | spencer312 | that will make life so much easier |
| 03:05.53 | spencer312 | thanks |
| 03:10.46 | elg | levi_home: windley's latest looks like an interesting read but my eyes just glaze over at the idea of thinking about web development |
| 03:11.15 | elg | tell me if it is good and therefore I should fight the urge to tune out web develompent |
| 03:11.47 | elg | heh. "For those of you who don't know what to do with all your money, why not a one million-dollar laptop from the U.K-based company Luvaglio? With 128GB of solid state disk space, Blu-ray, and a detachable rare diamond that acts like a power button and a security key." |
| 03:12.18 | elg | briliant. you have a million dollar laptop which can't be turned on without the diamond key that will probably be stolen within a week |
| 03:14.07 | nick125_lappy | 128GB of solid state disk space? uhh |
| 03:14.25 | jsmith | Probably doesn't work with Linux |
| 03:14.37 | nick125_lappy | I know the SSDs probably would work |
| 03:14.43 | nick125_lappy | since those are standard SATA drives |
| 03:15.14 | nick125_lappy | $2400 just in drives in that laptop..... |
| 03:20.52 | elg | what the heck is a cob building? |
| 03:35.14 | *** join/#utah dilvie (n=chatzill@c-67-169-243-184.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 03:36.50 | dilvie | are there any decent SLC restaraunts open after 10:00? |
| 03:38.57 | herlo | dilvie: during the week? |
| 03:39.06 | dilvie | right now. |
| 03:40.06 | elg | all I know is I was on a date in downtown SLC after 9:30 and nothing was open |
| 03:40.16 | elg | we might as well have been in payson |
| 03:42.53 | Zelut | stupid lag!! |
| 03:47.18 | ScytheBlade1 | Wingers stops seating at 11:00 I believe. |
| 03:56.53 | *** join/#utah Newsome (n=sorenson@mnch-static-02-098.dsl.iowatelecom.net) |
| 04:12.50 | QBFreak | any thoughts on whether an AT power supply will adequately power two DVD burners? |
| 04:12.51 | QBFreak | I know it sounds crazy, but there is logic behind it |
| 04:20.56 | jsmith | Sure, it should |
| 04:21.06 | Newsome | yes, it should |
| 04:21.20 | QBFreak | I have no idea what a typical wattage of an old AT supply even is, I suppose I should look that up :) |
| 04:22.23 | jsmith | 200 to 250, usually |
| 04:22.35 | jsmith | Sometimes as low as 90 on really tight boxes |
| 04:22.49 | QBFreak | cool |
| 04:23.02 | QBFreak | I may have to go ATX depending on what boards I find and what PSs I can scrounge |
| 04:23.18 | QBFreak | I know K6-2 AT/ATX hybrid boards exist |
| 04:31.42 | QBFreak | any idea what the "Form Factor" field on newegg for optical drives is? the common value is 5" and I assume that is disc size |
| 04:32.16 | QBFreak | I was really hoping for drive dimensions, I need some of the deeper DVD burners so the tray extends the disc fully out from under the bezel |
| 04:54.26 | atoponce | has vista incorporated an ssh-client yet? |
| 04:55.43 | jsmith | ssh... yeah right... Microsoft probably has some new proprietary remote-CLI technology built in, but it ain't SSH |
| 04:55.45 | *** join/#utah vontrapp_ (n=von@host-118.pl107906.fiber.net) |
| 04:56.30 | jsmith | ActiveRemoteDOSPromptXP Home Edition Plus! |
| 04:56.52 | jsmith | (version 3.1) |
| 04:57.17 | atoponce | ahh |
| 04:57.31 | atoponce | but, i bet we'll see it in service pack 66 |
| 04:57.35 | atoponce | or something |
| 04:58.02 | jsmith | Naw, Windows Genuine Annoyance will pop automagically download it so that the script kiddies can DoS your ISP with it. |
| 04:58.19 | jsmith | s/pop/pop up and/ |
| 04:59.02 | jsmith | Anyhoo, it's late... g'night everyone |
| 04:59.13 | atoponce | honestly. you would think that they would've implemented something by now |
| 04:59.27 | atoponce | <napoleon> morons! </napoleon> |
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| 05:05.34 | *** join/#utah zerdith (n=zerdith@66-188-62-36.dhcp.bycy.mi.charter.com) |
| 05:06.06 | atoponce | it's amazing, how your hatred from a company can keep you from supporting its product |
| 05:06.12 | atoponce | case in point: sony |
| 05:06.52 | brailsmt | or microsoft |
| 05:06.58 | *** join/#utah vontrapp_ (n=von@host-118.pl107906.fiber.net) |
| 05:06.59 | atoponce | i will never purchase the blue-ray disks or players. rather, i'll support hd-dvd |
| 05:07.20 | atoponce | even if blue-ray is a superior product |
| 05:16.33 | *** join/#utah vontrapp (n=von@host-118.pl107906.fiber.net) |
| 05:45.32 | findlay | hello |
| 05:49.43 | findlay | ~irradiate nick125_lappy with generic views |
| 05:49.50 | ibot | ACTION fires a Megarad on nick125_lappy with generic views |
| 05:52.57 | findlay | ~brac tensai |
| 05:52.59 | ibot | tensai and my lappy sitting next to me, this is the guest sees it as a template ahoy matey! |
| 05:56.40 | findlay | ~ZZ atoponce |
| 05:56.42 | ibot | ACTION writes and quits atoponce whether findlay liked it or not |
| 05:58.52 | findlay | ~naturally |
| 05:58.53 | ibot | methinks naturally is <respond> according to findlay |
| 05:58.58 | findlay | heh |
| 05:59.23 | dilvie | hmm |
| 05:59.39 | findlay | nick125_lappy: generic views are fun |
| 05:59.49 | dilvie | I'm thinking of going up in the hills somewhere and doing a huge long exposure night pano of the whole salt lake valley |
| 05:59.51 | dilvie | =) |
| 06:00.08 | findlay | I wish I could use generic views for everything |
| 06:00.23 | findlay | dilvie: which hills? |
| 06:00.35 | dilvie | findlay: ensign peak, maybe? |
| 06:00.41 | findlay | good view |
| 06:00.54 | findlay | have you ever been up to the top of Butterfield canyon? |
| 06:01.21 | findlay | you can actually drive all the way to the top of the Oquirrh ridge from there |
| 06:01.24 | dilvie | "i got your contact email from the British Chamber of Commerce and Industries and after praying and fastting GOD directed me to contact you for assistance" |
| 06:01.32 | dilvie | yay! I'm gonna be a MILLIONAIRE! |
| 06:01.37 | dilvie | *report spam* |
| 06:01.38 | findlay | awesome |
| 06:02.01 | dilvie | findlay: I haven't... how's the view up there? |
| 06:02.10 | findlay | the view of the Wasatch front from the Oquirrh mountains is awesome |
| 06:02.41 | dilvie | what landmarks are clearly visible from that vantage point? |
| 06:02.48 | findlay | you can see all the way to the Idaho border on a clear day to, like down way past Nephi |
| 06:03.16 | findlay | mainly just mountains and valleys |
| 06:04.00 | findlay | but then again you can get the same view from the New Bingham highway out further west on the Oquirrh alluvial plain |
| 06:04.02 | dilvie | awesome |
| 06:04.19 | findlay | that's where I grew up after all |
| 06:04.23 | dilvie | I was invited to put my photography into a travel / landmark oriented art show |
| 06:04.32 | dilvie | so I'm looking to capture recognizable landmarks |
| 06:04.51 | findlay | well, it's right on top of the copper mine :) |
| 06:05.02 | dilvie | hey, that sounds awesome. |
| 06:05.34 | findlay | on a mountain behind it |
| 07:10.48 | *** join/#utah harleypig (n=harleypi@160.7.237.70) |
| 07:24.45 | Supaplex | dilvie: poke poke |
| 07:25.56 | dilvie | Hi Supa.. |
| 07:26.05 | Supaplex | how goes? |
| 07:26.05 | dilvie | seen the Krishna Temple set? |
| 07:26.16 | dilvie | I had a blast on Saturday |
| 07:26.23 | Supaplex | no. Would you like to test apache2 on the new hosting box? |
| 07:26.29 | Supaplex | brb |
| 07:26.31 | dilvie | much less fun processing 5GB of images Sunday and Monday, though. |
| 07:27.21 | dilvie | Supa: Is it super stable? |
| 07:27.29 | dilvie | I'm down if it's not gonna flake on us. =) |
| 07:27.38 | dilvie | I imagine it is. |
| 07:27.50 | dilvie | They have the best userbase out there. |
| 07:28.02 | Supaplex | :) |
| 07:28.24 | Supaplex | k. I'm rehashing some things, I'll let you know when a preview is available. |
| 07:28.29 | dilvie | k.. |
| 07:28.39 | dilvie | I really can't have any downtime right now, BTW. |
| 07:28.51 | dilvie | let's try very carefully not to have any during the transition. |
| 07:28.52 | Supaplex | k |
| 07:39.26 | nick125_lappy | I don't have a real alarm clock, so, alarm.py works :p |
| 07:47.05 | Supaplex | I have a cell phone for that. |
| 07:50.01 | *** join/#utah neybar (n=jalance@209.210.190.233) |
| 07:50.05 | nick125_lappy | It's easier to write a python script then to try to get my cell phone to act like an alarm clock |
| 08:33.08 | *** join/#utah dilvie_ (n=chatzill@c-67-169-243-184.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 08:37.15 | *** join/#utah spr (n=spr@c-71-195-212-252.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 09:04.10 | *** join/#utah dilvie__ (n=chatzill@c-67-169-243-184.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 09:09.32 | Supaplex | double tail dilvie :P |
| 09:10.14 | dilvie | wha? |
| 09:12.10 | dilvie | what? |
| 09:12.16 | dilvie | I don't see a tail |
| 09:12.20 | brac | I don't understand it, the tower will still be in deep misery, with the keyboard, but it looks to me |
| 09:12.49 | Supaplex | well, was. :) |
| 09:12.59 | dilvie | supa: did you kill them? |
| 09:13.01 | dilvie | I didn't. |
| 09:13.08 | Supaplex | 03:03 -!- dilvie__ is now known as dilvie |
| 09:13.21 | Supaplex | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:13.25 | dilvie | oh, I thought you meant log tail on the server. |
| 09:13.35 | Supaplex | hah |
| 09:13.38 | Supaplex | you would :P |
| 09:13.45 | dilvie | shush. |
| 09:13.52 | Supaplex | :-) |
| 09:13.53 | dilvie | or I'll make fun of how old you're getting. |
| 09:13.56 | Supaplex | z'ok |
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| 13:41.31 | elg | -lart vontrapp |
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| 14:22.50 | beandog | elg: ping |
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| 14:38.32 | sontek | #utos |
| 14:38.55 | sontek | I meant a /j on that one |
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| 15:13.24 | elg | beandog: pong |
| 15:13.52 | findlay | hello |
| 15:18.46 | *** join/#utah mgeary (n=mgeary@166.70.44.49) |
| 15:19.26 | mgeary | ~yow |
| 15:21.29 | elg | man, totem sucks. and ubuntu/gnome sucks for making it the default program to try to open every file that it can't open |
| 15:23.16 | jsmith | elg: Amen! |
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| 15:24.02 | elg | I sent my wife an mp3. Just a simple mp3. I know the arguments about mp3 and patents and all that, but I long ago overrode them by installing various libraries and programs that can deal with mp3 |
| 15:24.30 | elg | and what happens when she clicks on it? Totem steps in and says "yo, can't play that dude. Sorry I'm so incompetent" |
| 15:24.54 | elg | nevermind that xmms, various other music players, and mplayer all could play it |
| 15:25.18 | elg | we have to have the least powerful program as the default for every file even remotely media related |
| 15:32.12 | levi | What are the haps, my friends? |
| 15:32.26 | Jayce^ | agreed elg .. |
| 15:32.45 | dataw0lf | levi: is that street slang for what's happenin? |
| 15:33.25 | levi | dataw0lf: It's something T-Rex from Dinosaur Comics would say. |
| 15:33.38 | dataw0lf | ah coolio. |
| 15:35.02 | levi | I love Dinosaur Comics. |
| 15:36.20 | dataw0lf | never seen em |
| 15:36.50 | levi | elg: My totem plays mp3s. |
| 15:38.02 | elg | maybe my totem is more viciously incompetent than others |
| 15:38.08 | elg | I won't know. I've uninstalled it |
| 15:39.21 | beandog | heh |
| 15:39.28 | levi | I think the gstreamer0.10-fluendo-mp3 package made it less incompetent. |
| 15:39.48 | levi | totem is just a wrapper around the gstreamer libraries. |
| 15:39.55 | levi | IIRC, at least. |
| 15:39.59 | beandog | yah |
| 15:39.59 | elg | that's so brilliantly obvious to Joe Sixpack |
| 15:40.25 | elg | I've not been impressed with gstreamer |
| 15:40.33 | elg | looked cool at first |
| 15:40.33 | beandog | so many mp3 decoders |
| 15:40.37 | beandog | at least 3 that I can think of |
| 15:40.46 | levi | I don't use it much, but I don't recall any complaints with it. |
| 15:41.08 | levi | Mine's pimped out enough to play almost everything mplayer does. |
| 15:41.24 | beandog | mplayer > * |
| 15:41.25 | beandog | :) |
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| 15:41.48 | elg | it's complex, overengineered, under-robust, and a real pain for end users |
| 15:41.50 | beandog | if they use lavc for playback somewhere along the line, then they can all decode the same stuff |
| 15:42.33 | levi | elg: What makes it a pain? The lack of an mp3 playing coded installed by default, or something else? |
| 15:42.50 | elg | no, that's not the issue |
| 15:43.17 | elg | well it sort of is. the pain for end users comes in the large array of packages required to get it working right |
| 15:43.31 | beandog | *cough* portage ;) |
| 15:43.32 | elg | distros can short circuit the pain, but it's still there underneath waiting to rear its head |
| 15:44.12 | elg | plugins are Good, and architecturally I like the microkernel approach, but things should Just Work™ out of the box |
| 15:44.13 | levi | Well, I'm not sure what it looks like upstream, but I know Debian introduces a lot of packages that don't exist upstream for the sake of modularity. |
| 15:44.32 | elg | yes, and that's a problem with Debian |
| 15:44.37 | elg | gstreamer encourages it though |
| 15:44.46 | elg | gstreamer is modular at the expense of sanity |
| 15:45.00 | *** part/#utah mgeary (n=mgeary@166.70.44.49) |
| 15:45.05 | elg | most of my gripes with gstreamer are from the developer and underlying perspective |
| 15:45.08 | beandog | http://rafb.net/p/MVGm6U54.html |
| 15:45.17 | beandog | that's a lotta deps |
| 15:45.29 | elg | it's understandable that people who haven't looked closely and have managed to get all the right plugins installed wouldn't notice |
| 15:45.30 | levi | Ah. Well, I never looked at it from that perspective, so I'll take your word for it. |
| 15:45.55 | elg | assuming it doesn't skip like mad on your system |
| 15:46.31 | elg | IME gstreamer performs terribly without huge buffers. again not a big deal for people just listening to music or whatever (if the defaults are sufficient) |
| 15:47.05 | elg | in short, I feel about gstreamer about like I feel about overengineered bursting at the seams with design patterns software |
| 15:47.16 | levi | Heh. |
| 15:47.38 | elg | design is addictive. it looks so nice, you feel so sophisticated |
| 15:47.43 | elg | and in the end it becomes intractable |
| 15:48.07 | elg | almost as intractable as the spaghetti code it _might_ have prevented |
| 15:48.54 | levi | Someone needs to revive the Synthesis OS. |
| 15:51.16 | levi | It was the hobby project and then Ph.D. thesis topic of this super-genius guy. It used very simple mechanisms along with specialized code synthesis to achieve an order of magnitude better performance than the unix OSes of its day. |
| 15:52.05 | levi | Including extremely low latency, such that the regular scheduler and IO mechanisms were sufficient for the audio work he did as another hobby. |
| 15:52.27 | findlay | levi: that's neat |
| 15:52.28 | levi | (and this was back in the mid-80s) |
| 15:52.57 | findlay | elg: why are you saying that gstreamer might have prevented spaghetti code? |
| 15:54.10 | levi | http://citeseer.ist.psu.edu/massalin92synthesi.html |
| 15:55.53 | elg | findlay: no, overzealous software engineering |
| 15:55.54 | atoponce | http://techdirt.com/articles/20070327/002850.shtml |
| 15:55.55 | brac | [Techdirt: The Patent Thicket That May Destroy VoIP] |
| 15:55.59 | elg | to which I analog gstreamer |
| 15:56.43 | findlay | atoponce: the patent thicket will entangle a lot more than just voip |
| 15:57.00 | atoponce | findlay: agreed |
| 15:57.00 | elg | it won't destroy voip any more than it will destroy all of computing |
| 15:57.08 | atoponce | but *that's* a good article |
| 15:57.14 | elg | let's just hope that it doesn't actually destroy all of computing |
| 15:57.15 | atoponce | in fact, i'm really liking techdirt |
| 15:57.30 | atoponce | it's what /. should be, but alas, is not |
| 15:57.49 | atoponce | good professional writing on that site |
| 15:58.05 | *** join/#utah calvarez (n=Hhhhh@r82h185.res.gatech.edu) |
| 15:58.26 | atoponce | elg: as it says, the companies win out, and the users lose big time |
| 15:58.34 | atoponce | rather unfortunate, i think |
| 15:58.42 | calvarez | This link explains why Ubuntu is objectively better than Gentoo: http://news.linux.com/article.pl?sid=07/03/26/139256&from=rss |
| 15:58.46 | atoponce | let's stiffle innovation with patent lawsuits |
| 15:58.59 | calvarez | http://news.linux.com/article.pl?sid=07/03/26/139256&from=rss |
| 15:59.08 | elg | i honestly wonder if patents ever worked |
| 15:59.16 | elg | or if it was just a collosal blunder by the founding fathers |
| 15:59.24 | calvarez | ibot, you suck |
| 15:59.26 | ibot | no, *you* suck! |
| 15:59.37 | elg | heh |
| 15:59.44 | elg | ibot: are you a patent? |
| 15:59.56 | calvarez | ibot is patented |
| 15:59.57 | atoponce | ibot: are you patented? |
| 16:00.15 | atoponce | ibot: speak |
| 16:00.17 | ibot | ARFFFFFFFFFFFF |
| 16:00.32 | atoponce | ~botsnack |
| 16:00.32 | ibot | atoponce: aw, gee |
| 16:01.41 | calvarez | I think that link is objective proof that gentoo is trollware |
| 16:01.54 | elg | wasn't speakeasy a good ISP? |
| 16:02.11 | findlay | oh yeah, I wrote on my blog how ubuntu is worse than gentoo |
| 16:02.15 | levi | Ooh, the new Dia can import and export Visio files. |
| 16:02.22 | jsmith | levi: Oh yeah? |
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| 16:02.37 | calvarez | levi, that's cool |
| 16:02.49 | levi | Well, that's what Foot Notes says, at least. |
| 16:03.03 | graphyx | wow |
| 16:03.12 | graphyx | that's a big step up for them |
| 16:03.27 | calvarez | oh, nice, Portsmouth vs. Reading |
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| 16:25.52 | levi | Ars Technica seems to concur with my opinion of the Apple TV. |
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| 16:26.55 | lukfugl | gah |
| 16:27.15 | lukfugl | Billy Shatner's rendition of Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds just came on |
| 16:27.19 | redbeard1 | gah! |
| 16:27.25 | levi | lukfugl: Came on what? |
| 16:27.31 | lukfugl | xmms |
| 16:27.33 | levi | And, yeah, that's gah-worthy. |
| 16:27.45 | lukfugl | I blame redbeard |
| 16:27.53 | redbeard1 | was that one my fault? |
| 16:27.56 | lukfugl | he's the only place I can think of that contamination coming from |
| 16:28.23 | lukfugl | all the Donny Osmond too |
| 16:28.38 | lukfugl | ah, some Duran Duran will cleanse the palette |
| 16:29.08 | redbeard1 | when stealing other people's mp3 collections, you should always beware of land mines |
| 16:29.16 | redbeard1 | and land mimes too |
| 16:29.20 | redbeard1 | and land sharks |
| 16:32.36 | *** join/#utah harleypig (n=harleypi@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 16:33.30 | atoponce | http://www.mozilla.org/projects/firefox/3.0a3/releasenotes/ |
| 16:33.31 | brac | [Mozilla Gran Paradiso Alpha 3 Release Notes] |
| 16:33.51 | atoponce | tell me, please, what's so hard about making a globe that actually *looks* like our planet? |
| 16:34.15 | atoponce | or am i missing something here |
| 16:34.51 | lukfugl | atoponce: because it's trademarked by NASA? |
| 16:36.13 | atoponce | what? they can't design one? 'earth' is trademarked? |
| 16:36.28 | levi | atoponce: The orientation in which you place the globe could reveal your ethnocentrism! |
| 16:36.41 | findlay | heh |
| 16:36.55 | findlay | silly humans |
| 16:37.37 | atoponce | levi: well, isn't our planet superior to the rest? after all, we support life |
| 16:37.58 | atoponce | lukfugl: i know. same here, with more a sarcastic tone. :) |
| 16:38.20 | levi | atoponce: Now you're being bigoted on a higher level! Where's the respect for the *other* planets? |
| 16:38.25 | findlay | well, I was laughing at what levi said |
| 16:38.52 | atoponce | levi: well, the noly one with any value was recently denounced as a planet. |
| 16:39.27 | atoponce | ~pity pluto |
| 16:39.28 | ibot | I pity da fool pluto! |
| 16:39.28 | levi | What value did that little ball of dust have? C'mon, I'm talking about the ones the aliens live on. |
| 16:41.35 | atoponce | ahh. well, aliens are: 1) either technolgically superior but poor navigators, or 2) technilogically inferior with the skill of magellan |
| 16:41.40 | atoponce | either way, i win |
| 16:42.36 | atoponce | so, about drawing an icon that actually looks like our planet |
| 16:42.39 | atoponce | ... |
| 16:42.46 | levi | It's not hard to win when you're the only one playing, whatever it is the game was. That certainly doesn't absolve you of your bigotry! ;) |
| 16:43.03 | atoponce | heh |
| 16:47.41 | dataw0lf | you're a planetist atoponce |
| 16:47.52 | dataw0lf | you need sensitivity training. |
| 16:48.47 | atoponce | i am sensitive. removing pluto from the planetary board was inexcusable, and no one apologized |
| 16:49.26 | atoponce | what about all those years in grade school learning that pluto was among The Great? what about my feelings and the past 30 years of education? |
| 16:50.29 | Supaplex | next you'll whine that roygbiv is backwards because the higher frequencies start first. |
| 16:51.36 | atoponce | nah. the mozilla team got the colors at least semi-right, or recognizable, on their icon |
| 16:51.58 | atoponce | so, the light frequency order doesn't matter much |
| 16:52.15 | findlay | it's all the same anyway |
| 16:52.33 | findlay | the preoccupation with partitioning the EM spectrum is repugnantly artificial |
| 16:52.37 | atoponce | of course, my 'blue' could be your 'green' in which case, it's all subjective anyway |
| 16:53.10 | findlay | but pure visible colors can be absolutely defined by wavelength |
| 16:53.31 | *** join/#utah ^Migs^ (n=migs@205.122.50.69) |
| 16:53.39 | atoponce | but the interpretation of the color depends on the cones in the retina of one's eye |
| 16:57.41 | dataw0lf | yes, but the wavelength has a name assigned to them. Color isn't arbitrary. |
| 16:57.54 | dataw0lf | s/them/it/ |
| 16:58.40 | atoponce | correct. but, hypothetically, if i were to remove your eyes, and put them in my sockets, would the color spectrum order, as i know it, be the same? |
| 16:59.15 | dataw0lf | No, but that doesn't matter. Just because you see red as green doesn't mean the color itself changed. It's still called red. |
| 16:59.37 | atoponce | true. i'm not saying the color changed, just your interpretation of that color |
| 16:59.51 | atoponce | the wavelength is still the same |
| 17:00.09 | atoponce | but, i might 'see' it differently |
| 17:00.13 | dataw0lf | sure |
| 17:01.00 | atoponce | so, with that, we still haven't concluded why mozilla has produced, rather poorly, an innaccuarate depiction of Mother Earth |
| 17:01.04 | atoponce | :) |
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| 17:01.55 | levi | http://blog.moertel.com/articles/2007/03/26/debate-to-learn-learn-to-debate |
| 17:01.58 | dataw0lf | who said it was earth? |
| 17:02.03 | levi | atoponce: What makes you think it's supposed to be Earth? |
| 17:02.40 | findlay | because if it's not it's deceptive business |
| 17:02.52 | findlay | a deliberate immitation |
| 17:03.11 | lukfugl | trademark infringment |
| 17:03.37 | dataw0lf | mebbe it's supposed to be the earth in billions of years |
| 17:03.44 | dataw0lf | thus the lack of polar ice caps |
| 17:03.46 | dataw0lf | ;-) |
| 17:03.47 | lukfugl | The UN holds a trademark on "The Blue Planet" |
| 17:04.03 | lukfugl | and that is obviously a blue planet |
| 17:04.49 | dataw0lf | I see it as green!ONE! |
| 17:05.26 | Supaplex | it's all black in total darkness. |
| 17:05.28 | atoponce | levi: dataw0lf: i believe that it is a representation of Earth, given reference to Mammon in the Book of Mozilla |
| 17:05.36 | atoponce | Chapter 7 Verse 15 |
| 17:05.38 | findlay | how can I remove cell borders in the selected cells in a table with html/css? |
| 17:05.54 | findlay | s/the// |
| 17:05.57 | dataw0lf | findlay: that's Chapter 7 Verse 15? |
| 17:06.21 | findlay | dataw0lf: what does mozilla have to to with tables? |
| 17:07.03 | dataw0lf | I dunno, you tell me |
| 17:07.18 | findlay | ~tell dataw0lf |
| 17:07.55 | dataw0lf | just use a style on the <td> |
| 17:08.08 | dataw0lf | <td style="border: solid 1px #000;"> |
| 17:08.22 | lukfugl | findlay: select the td via css (class, id, whatever), then border:none |
| 17:09.20 | lukfugl | if you're talking more specifically about the spacing the table puts in between cells, you want border-collapse:collapse, but that's only at the table level, not per cell |
| 17:11.34 | findlay | thanks for the info everybody |
| 17:11.55 | findlay | once again I'm humbled and overwhelmed by my lack of html/css knowledge |
| 17:13.09 | findlay | I give up |
| 17:13.27 | findlay | why are there seperate borders on the tablular and cellular levels? |
| 17:13.34 | QBFreak | lukfugl: is that the one I've only been able to set with cellpadding= or cellspacing= (I forget which)? cause thats good to know |
| 17:13.43 | QBFreak | findlay: because tables are evil |
| 17:13.47 | lukfugl | QBFreak: yes |
| 17:13.48 | QBFreak | and oh so handy... |
| 17:13.55 | QBFreak | that is awesome, I will try and remember that |
| 17:13.57 | *** join/#utah sjansen (n=sjansen@157.130.62.194) |
| 17:13.58 | lukfugl | table-level cellpadding/spacing is evil |
| 17:14.10 | findlay | QBFreak: but if you're displaying tabular data, that's what you use |
| 17:14.12 | QBFreak | I thought tables were actually depreciated? as much as I love them |
| 17:14.17 | findlay | no |
| 17:14.25 | lukfugl | I almost always turn border-collapse:collapse on. then I can manage spacing with margins and padding on the cells |
| 17:14.26 | QBFreak | findlay: my old site was a giant rats nest of tables :) |
| 17:14.37 | harleypig | Anyone know xulrunner well enough to give me some pointers? |
| 17:14.40 | sjansen | lukfugml should only be used for semantic markup, presentational lukfugml is evil |
| 17:14.42 | lukfugl | QBFreak: tables for non-tabular layout are deprecated :) |
| 17:14.53 | QBFreak | ah |
| 17:15.04 | findlay | lukfugl: that's nice |
| 17:15.09 | lukfugl | I'm a markup language now? |
| 17:15.24 | findlay | nice |
| 17:15.42 | sjansen | harleypig: There is no xulrunner, there is only XUL. |
| 17:16.42 | harleypig | Ok, so while the gatekeeper is jumping the keymaster's bones (I'd do Sigourney Weaver in a heartbeat), where can I go to a decent tutorial on XUL? |
| 17:17.08 | dataw0lf | she looked really good in Galaxy Quest. |
| 17:19.00 | harleypig | Yeah. That blond hair really did something ... :> |
| 17:19.31 | findlay | awesome. My CSS table-fu is increasing |
| 17:19.32 | ^Migs^ | http://www.battleofthegods.tv/ |
| 17:19.32 | brac | [GOD OF WAR 2] |
| 17:20.54 | *** topic/#utah by sjansen -> The channel for OSS discussion in Utah | http://www.plug.org/node/28 | Utah Open Source Conference - September 6-8, 2007 |
| 17:21.50 | findlay | ~ZZ topic |
| 17:21.54 | ibot | ACTION writes and quits topic whether findlay liked it or not |
| 17:23.28 | sjansen | "I'm so sorry about your accident. Here, let me describe the photo to you..." |
| 17:25.15 | findlay | hm |
| 17:25.46 | Supaplex | mmm honey glazed fried sausage |
| 17:26.02 | Supaplex | it actually came out ok. how nice. |
| 17:26.15 | findlay | within a <pre></pre> block you can't set <td style="word-wrap: break word;">? |
| 17:26.47 | lukfugl | why would you want a td inside a pre block? |
| 17:26.53 | sjansen | findlay: eww :-( |
| 17:27.10 | lukfugl | sjansen: eww |
| 17:27.12 | findlay | sjansen: what? |
| 17:27.32 | lukfugl | maybe I'm just "unrefined", but dark chocolate is blech |
| 17:27.36 | findlay | I have a <pre> block with a table. What's wrong with that? |
| 17:27.54 | emcnabb | long live <blink> |
| 17:27.56 | lukfugl | <pre> should not have markup inside it. it's not what it's meant for |
| 17:28.18 | sjansen | Maybe you've found a rare appropriate use, but my gut tells me you're wrong. |
| 17:28.18 | lukfugl | what's your goal? |
| 17:28.28 | Supaplex | yes findlay you said WWITHIN <pre></pre> |
| 17:28.34 | Supaplex | s/WW/W |
| 17:28.35 | sjansen | Actually, <pre> is deprecated in XHTML 2.0 |
| 17:28.43 | emcnabb | ~lart sjansen |
| 17:28.43 | ibot | judo chops sjansen |
| 17:28.56 | findlay | well, I have some tabular data I want laid out in fixed width |
| 17:29.00 | sjansen | ~hug emcnabb |
| 17:29.03 | ibot | ACTION hugs emcnabb |
| 17:29.14 | findlay | maybe I just don't know any better |
| 17:29.19 | findlay | which is very likely |
| 17:29.22 | elg | you want it in a table with a fixed-width font? |
| 17:29.27 | findlay | yes |
| 17:29.32 | Supaplex | then set the font :P |
| 17:29.33 | elg | then use a table with a fixed-width font |
| 17:29.34 | lukfugl | then style the font of the table |
| 17:29.41 | findlay | ok |
| 17:29.44 | lukfugl | pre != fixed width font |
| 17:29.49 | sjansen | emcnabb: I've met your family, I'm sure you had a happy childhood despite how you act. But that's okay, we all love you anyway. |
| 17:29.54 | lukfugl | fixed width font is one effect of pre |
| 17:30.11 | elg | pre-ness is the other |
| 17:30.15 | lukfugl | :) |
| 17:30.19 | elg | pre doesn't have to be fixed-width |
| 17:30.32 | sjansen | ~puppy emcnabb |
| 17:30.35 | lukfugl | <pre> means preformatted -- preserves whitespace, etc. |
| 17:30.40 | findlay | yes, I know |
| 17:30.41 | Supaplex | automagic \n = <br /> |
| 17:30.44 | Supaplex | etc |
| 17:31.16 | graphyx | oh didn't know that one |
| 17:31.24 | sjansen | <pre> = We're still insert data from a tn3270 connection to the mainframe in our Web pages, and here's what it looked like. |
| 17:31.58 | sjansen | s/insert/inserting/ |
| 17:31.59 | lukfugl | if you really want *all* the effects of pre, but you want it to span a whole block of markup, use the white-space:pre rule in CSS |
| 17:32.04 | Supaplex | I wonder if http://command.com/ is still up. |
| 17:32.24 | Supaplex | awwwe. that's too bad. |
| 17:32.33 | findlay | archive.org? |
| 17:32.33 | lukfugl | the <pre> tag itself is only meant to contain text nodes as children |
| 17:32.48 | Supaplex | already looking :) |
| 17:33.07 | Supaplex | http://web.archive.org/web/20030401235450/http://command.com/ |
| 17:34.59 | graphyx | sjansen: You prefer the pegasus galaxy? |
| 17:35.22 | lukfugl | hmph: "But remember that Explorer browsers may ignore the white-space property." |
| 17:35.27 | lukfugl | stupid IE |
| 17:35.46 | findlay | lukfugl: thanks for the info |
| 17:35.49 | graphyx | -chat about IE is |
| 17:35.50 | brac | IE is just a beta for intel mac) |
| 17:36.23 | lukfugl | so the intel macs are just a souped up IE? ewwwwww |
| 17:36.42 | findlay | ugh |
| 17:37.30 | findlay | man, I am no web designer |
| 17:37.37 | lukfugl | -chat about intel macs |
| 17:37.37 | brac | intel macs are for full-blown mail servers, I just couldn't tell you how to search for the "real world" it accompanied by lots and lots of spelling errors on mine,even |
| 17:37.59 | elg | findlay: do you mean you're bad at it or that fundamentally you're not a web designer? |
| 17:38.11 | findlay | elg: both probably |
| 17:41.48 | dilvie | Free headshots tomorrow night: http://www.dilvie.com/2007/03/free-professional-headshots.html |
| 17:42.18 | ^Migs^ | what's that place in SLC again, where they dress up like fantasy characters and role play battles in a big warehouse? |
| 17:42.35 | ^Migs^ | or what's that group called, rather? |
| 17:42.43 | ^Migs^ | magic or mystic something |
| 17:42.45 | ^Migs^ | mystic realms? |
| 17:42.58 | graphyx | part of the sca? |
| 17:43.19 | ^Migs^ | mythic realms, that's it |
| 17:43.23 | ^Migs^ | I don't know if it is or not |
| 17:44.13 | graphyx | dilvie: Are you a professional photographer or are you publicizing for someone else? |
| 17:44.31 | dilvie | taht's me. |
| 17:44.34 | dilvie | that's me, rather. =) |
| 17:44.47 | graphyx | Cool |
| 17:44.52 | dilvie | my site, anyway. =) |
| 17:44.58 | dilvie | I'm not a cute redhead. |
| 17:44.59 | herlo | dilvie: its tomorrow night? cool, I might be able to go...I'll have to check out a couple things. Where're you meeting again? |
| 17:45.05 | graphyx | I did photography for yearbook for high school. |
| 17:45.19 | graphyx | where're+ |
| 17:45.19 | dilvie | corner of 800 N and 300 W in SLC |
| 17:45.20 | graphyx | ? |
| 17:45.29 | graphyx | it that legal ? |
| 17:45.35 | dilvie | is what legal? |
| 17:45.37 | graphyx | I mean I haven't seen that one written before |
| 17:45.40 | graphyx | where're |
| 17:45.47 | herlo | graphyx: does it matter? |
| 17:46.01 | dilvie | haha |
| 17:46.23 | herlo | graphyx: i could talk with no punctuation or any extra emphasis but hey its more fun this way |
| 17:46.49 | graphyx | I see |
| 17:46.55 | herlo | but I choose to use language that is comfortable to me. You don't have to like it! |
| 17:46.58 | herlo | :) |
| 17:47.09 | graphyx | But I just gotta call u on it. it aint' a werd!!! |
| 17:47.25 | graphyx | ~lart me baby! |
| 17:47.26 | ibot | flings poo at me baby! |
| 17:47.37 | graphyx | not at my baby, me baby!!! |
| 17:47.43 | herlo | dilvie: pic of you? so I know who I am looking for? |
| 17:47.47 | graphyx | ~yer useless! |
| 17:47.58 | graphyx | he will be the one with the camera |
| 17:48.15 | herlo | graphyx: I'll have one too, and I suspect others will as well... |
| 17:48.16 | graphyx | he doesn't use it on himself to keep it from breaking. |
| 17:48.22 | graphyx | =) |
| 17:48.31 | herlo | ~lart graphyx for being a smarta$$ |
| 17:48.31 | ibot | throws a AN/M-8 smoke grenade at graphyx for being a smarta$$ |
| 17:48.33 | graphyx | jk dilvie |
| 17:48.34 | dilvie | herlo: I'll be the guy toting tons of camera gear. |
| 17:48.38 | dilvie | pretty damn tough to miss. |
| 17:48.39 | herlo | tons? |
| 17:48.43 | herlo | wow |
| 17:48.50 | dilvie | well, not tons |
| 17:48.55 | graphyx | .23 tons!! |
| 17:48.57 | herlo | okay. I just have a camera with a few lenses and some filters, thats about it... |
| 17:49.10 | graphyx | You bringing a backdrop? |
| 17:49.12 | dilvie | but a Nikon D80+lens, tripod + flash + umbrella... |
| 17:49.24 | herlo | you are much more prepared than I will be, but I'll try to make it ot see what I can learn... |
| 17:49.54 | herlo | dilvie: Canon Digital Rebel (the original) hacked with the firmware equivalent to the D10 |
| 17:49.59 | herlo | er 10D |
| 17:50.32 | herlo | no extra flashes, I have a crappy tripod and some minimal lens filters... |
| 17:51.08 | dilvie | My tripod is crappy too, but I usually only use it for my flash and the occaisional long-exposure night shot. |
| 17:51.18 | dilvie | I like shooting hand-held. |
| 17:51.22 | dilvie | with off-camera flash. |
| 17:55.12 | emcnabb | Dear Dr SJansen, I don't need one of your psychotherapy sessions. If you have a problem with that, one of the voices in my head will let you know |
| 17:55.32 | QBFreak | who all here has a DVD burner? |
| 17:55.32 | emcnabb | sjansen: any questions? |
| 17:55.47 | findlay | ~flame DVD |
| 17:55.48 | ibot | DVD, YOU SUCK. And you know it. |
| 17:56.10 | *** join/#utah Robdor (n=Robdor@208.187.198.179) |
| 17:56.37 | QBFreak | I'm having a problem finding drives that will work for this disc duplicator system I'm upgrading |
| 17:57.28 | QBFreak | the issue is that the trays are too shallow and the discs do not clear the bezel when the arm raises |
| 17:57.31 | QBFreak | I would appreciate comments from anyone who could open their drive, and check to see if the CD would clear the bezel if lifted straight up, I'd like ot know the model :) |
| 17:57.38 | QBFreak | and if not, let me know so I can record that too |
| 17:58.19 | QBFreak | so far the best canidate is a LiteOn, but I'd need to remove the door bezel because of the way its shaped |
| 17:59.41 | graphyx | I don't see any reason why you would care if the drive door was removed. |
| 18:00.05 | findlay | or make a hip aftermarket door |
| 18:00.29 | QBFreak | eh, it just looks kinda tacky IMO :) |
| 18:06.28 | QBFreak | tene: ping |
| 18:07.57 | QBFreak | noooo! |
| 18:09.33 | findlay | heh |
| 18:10.17 | QBFreak | hmm |
| 18:10.19 | QBFreak | findlay: ping |
| 18:11.01 | findlay | ~pong QBFreak |
| 18:11.06 | ibot | QBFreak: PONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
| 18:11.53 | QBFreak | well thats not optimal |
| 18:14.11 | findlay | ~optimize QBFreak |
| 18:16.13 | *** join/#utah jsmith-lunch (n=jsmith@000-193-159.area3.spcsdns.net) |
| 18:37.51 | beandog | http://techdirt.com/articles/20070327/093128.shtml |
| 18:37.51 | brac | [Techdirt: Speakeasy And Best Buy Don't Exactly Go Together Like Chocolate And Peanut Butter] |
| 18:48.07 | sjansen | emcnabb: I do have a question. What do the voices tell you to do? Or are they more the "oo, pretty bunny... time for chocolate" type of voices? |
| 18:50.26 | dilvie | hehhee |
| 18:50.34 | sjansen | Starried eyes soft focus might be appropriate for a cute red head, but isn't very appropriate for a bearded old curmudgeon. |
| 18:51.10 | dilvie | I like photographing bearded old curmudgeons |
| 18:51.17 | dilvie | wtf is a curmudgeon, again? |
| 18:51.58 | sjansen | Think Richard Stallman, but less cuddly. |
| 18:52.28 | dilvie | hahaha |
| 18:52.55 | dilvie | I think that's the first time I've seen Richard Stallman and cuddly in the same sentence. |
| 18:55.25 | maquis | uh |
| 18:55.27 | maquis | ummm |
| 18:55.34 | maquis | *POP* |
| 19:01.27 | ^Migs^ | what's that algorithm called that is used to determine if a point lies within a set of points that form a polygon? |
| 19:03.21 | lukfugl | convex hull |
| 19:03.31 | lukfugl | I think is the one you want |
| 19:03.52 | lukfugl | you just want one step though, not the full alfo |
| 19:03.55 | lukfugl | *algo |
| 19:04.48 | lukfugl | the step is "I have this hull so far, and new point X. Is X already contained, or do I need to add it to the hull?" So you don't need to iterate the whole algo, just perform that check from within the algo |
| 19:05.00 | lukfugl | that check may have it's own name, dunno |
| 19:05.39 | lukfugl | this of course assumes the your "set of points that form a polygon" is a convex polygon |
| 19:09.11 | lukfugl | another approach: iterate over the sides of the polygon as if you were tracing from point to point. for the first edge, determine if X is left or right of the edge. if the point is on that same side of the edge for all edges, it's inside, otherwise it's outside. |
| 19:09.35 | lukfugl | still only works for convex polygons, though |
| 19:17.28 | harleypig | Hey dilvie! Wanna help me with a business idea? |
| 19:17.29 | vontrapp | does it? |
| 19:17.39 | harleypig | It involves photography. |
| 19:17.52 | vontrapp | i think it works as long as the polygon doesn't cross itself |
| 19:18.05 | harleypig | Is the polygon catholic? |
| 19:18.06 | vontrapp | what's that property called again? |
| 19:18.25 | vontrapp | so it works with any catholic polygon, i think |
| 19:18.44 | harleypig | Roman? or Russian Orthodox? |
| 19:19.48 | vontrapp | ~forkbomb harleypig |
| 19:20.18 | graphyx | I think that harleypig is game far anything that utilizes forks |
| 19:20.35 | harleypig | SPORKS! |
| 19:20.39 | graphyx | especially if it uses cake as well |
| 19:20.51 | vontrapp | any forks that have food on them, i'm game |
| 19:20.59 | graphyx | I have a couple people here at work who have titanium sporks for camping. |
| 19:21.02 | harleypig | Only lemon chocolate with peanut butter fudge frosting. |
| 19:21.12 | harleypig | graphyx: I have a titanium spork too! |
| 19:23.42 | harleypig | I guess dilvie doesn't want to help me with a business idea. |
| 19:23.50 | harleypig | I think people would pay good money for it. |
| 19:23.57 | harleypig | And others could be blackmailed with it. |
| 19:24.05 | harleypig | money all around! |
| 19:25.01 | dilvie | halrey: what business idea? |
| 19:25.19 | dilvie | harley, even |
| 19:25.21 | dilvie | blah |
| 19:28.13 | harleypig | Have you heard of my 'MakeTheBadManStop' business idea? |
| 19:28.28 | harleypig | Have you seen what I look like? |
| 19:31.28 | graphyx | is that like a pay me to stop singing approach? |
| 19:31.31 | lukfugl | vontrapp: imagine an "M" with a closed bottom, and X in the top corner of one of the peaks |
| 19:32.30 | *** join/#utah dilvie_ (n=chatzill@c-67-169-243-184.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 19:34.37 | vontrapp | lukfugl: ah, yes, i was thinking about all same side => inside but not the <= part |
| 19:34.51 | harleypig | graphyx: the blackmail part, yeah. |
| 19:34.52 | harleypig | :] |
| 19:35.07 | *** join/#utah dilvie__ (n=chatzill@c-67-169-243-184.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 19:35.11 | vontrapp | those darn double implications |
| 19:36.22 | elg | java generics - what's wrong with this: |
| 19:36.30 | vontrapp | elg: java |
| 19:36.43 | elg | Foo<double> f = new Foo<double>(12.4); |
| 19:37.02 | elg | eclipse underlines "double" in both places and says something cryptic that makes no sense to me |
| 19:37.20 | elg | do generics not accept built-in types? |
| 19:37.36 | vontrapp | could be |
| 19:38.47 | findlay | heh, generics |
| 19:39.02 | findlay | silly template immitation |
| 19:39.31 | vontrapp | hey wow, for the first time since since the first day of my premium service trial, my bandwidth is actually above what it was before premium service |
| 19:39.49 | vontrapp | so one day out of 4 premium was better |
| 19:40.36 | harleypig | I scared him awaay |
| 19:40.36 | vontrapp | the rest of the time it was about half as fast or worse |
| 19:40.39 | vontrapp | much worse |
| 19:40.45 | harleypig | oh. Ig uess not. |
| 19:42.01 | vontrapp | then again, just about everyone in the whole complex is probably on the free trial at the same time |
| 19:42.25 | findlay | vontrapp: who are you with? |
| 19:42.37 | vontrapp | HotSite! |
| 19:42.47 | findlay | sounds fishy already |
| 19:43.22 | vontrapp | "HotSite networks, freedom to connect" |
| 19:43.57 | vontrapp | i just wish this place would get off their butts and install ethernet ports already |
| 19:43.59 | lukfugl | sounds like one of those sites that would make other sorts of connections |
| 19:44.21 | vontrapp | 100s of people all on wireless is not a real great way to have connectivity |
| 19:44.55 | graphyx | wires are a liability wireless you can blame environmental effects. |
| 19:45.35 | vontrapp | like, dating connections? |
| 19:45.36 | vontrapp | ~graphyx is a liability |
| 19:45.37 | ibot | ...but graphyx is already something else... |
| 19:45.37 | lukfugl | vontrapp: yeah, that's what I was thinking of :) |
| 19:45.39 | brac | yeah, that's less hassle. I always hear people talking about some overly-hyped trends in computer programming. |
| 19:45.42 | graphyx | that is from the company point of view. |
| 19:45.56 | vontrapp | ~graphyx is also a liability |
| 19:45.58 | ibot | vontrapp: okay |
| 19:46.05 | graphyx | ~gme |
| 19:46.06 | graphyx | ~me |
| 19:46.07 | ibot | from memory, graphyx is a security consultant. a liability |
| 19:46.07 | lukfugl | woah, brac. that was a coherent (and true) sentence |
| 19:46.30 | graphyx | lukfugl: you are ruining my rep |
| 19:46.31 | lukfugl | security consultants *are* liabilities... |
| 19:46.42 | lukfugl | wasn't me! |
| 19:46.44 | vontrapp | lukfugl: did you see bracs political comment yesterday? |
| 19:46.54 | lukfugl | vontrapp: might have, remind me |
| 19:46.56 | vontrapp | ~kharma brac |
| 19:47.03 | vontrapp | he got a ++ for it |
| 19:47.07 | vontrapp | ~karma brac |
| 19:47.07 | ibot | brac has karma of 1 |
| 19:47.15 | graphyx | ~karma me |
| 19:47.15 | ibot | me has karma of 3 |
| 19:47.23 | vontrapp | ~karma vontrapp |
| 19:47.23 | ibot | vontrapp has karma of 2 |
| 19:47.26 | lukfugl | ~karma ibot |
| 19:47.26 | ibot | ibot has karma of 21 |
| 19:47.31 | lukfugl | cheater |
| 19:47.35 | graphyx | ~karma graphyx |
| 19:47.35 | ibot | graphyx has karma of 1 |
| 19:47.50 | graphyx | ~karma brac |
| 19:47.50 | ibot | brac has karma of 1 |
| 19:48.13 | vontrapp | lukfugl: it was in the middle of dataw0lf's tyrade so could easily be glossed over |
| 19:48.35 | lukfugl | ah, yeah. now I know where in the logs to look though :) |
| 19:49.18 | elg | foo.java:6: unexpected type |
| 19:49.18 | elg | found : double |
| 19:49.18 | elg | required: reference |
| 19:49.46 | vontrapp | sounds like built ins aren't allowed |
| 19:50.00 | vontrapp | no you have to use MyDoubleImitatorType |
| 19:50.02 | lukfugl | nope, don't see it. I logged off in the middle of it (~5:30pm) |
| 19:50.53 | levi | elg: Since Java Generics work via type erasure, I would expect that you would have to use a type derived from Object with generics. |
| 19:51.10 | sjansen | elg: Did you find your problem? Case type. s/double/Double/ |
| 19:51.51 | vontrapp | 18:00 < brac> it's about the hidden politics |
| 19:51.53 | vontrapp | 18:00 < brac> it's about the hidden politics |
| 19:52.01 | vontrapp | 18:00 < brac> it's about the hidden politics |
| 19:52.09 | vontrapp | ah, shoot |
| 19:52.14 | vontrapp | didn't realize it was pasting |
| 19:52.30 | sjansen | ~pastie vontrapp |
| 19:53.00 | lukfugl | so Double is double, but an Object? |
| 19:53.06 | levi | Double is a class derived from Object, so it would work. |
| 19:53.24 | levi | It wraps a primitive double. |
| 19:53.29 | sjansen | yup |
| 19:53.49 | vontrapp | and double is just some half-baked, worthless, second class primitive? |
| 19:54.09 | levi | All Java primitive types are half-baked, second-class types. |
| 19:54.13 | vontrapp | kinda like java |
| 19:54.26 | sjansen | At this point it has to be asked: is there even a point using primitives in Java anymore? They were added for efficiency, but since then Java compilers haven't gotten much better. Just use autoboxing and be done with it. |
| 19:54.28 | lukfugl | ~lart vontrapp |
| 19:54.28 | ibot | frags vontrapp with his BFG9000 |
| 19:54.36 | lukfugl | ~lart java |
| 19:54.36 | ibot | slams java against a large cement Tux |
| 19:55.28 | levi | sjansen: The answer is no, you're correct, just use autoboxing. |
| 19:55.48 | elg | ok, how am I going to tell my students about this without saying Java Sucks |
| 19:56.00 | levi | But I would say that Java compilers and runtimes /have/ got much better. |
| 19:56.30 | levi | elg: About which part in particular? |
| 19:56.33 | sjansen | elg: I've always felt that in education, honesty is the best policy. |
| 19:56.39 | elg | sjansen: thanks. good to know that my suspicians were correct |
| 19:56.40 | vontrapp | why not tell them it sucks? |
| 19:56.50 | elg | well, I will, but that doesn't help them |
| 19:57.07 | elg | levi: the stupid primitive wrapper stuff |
| 19:57.07 | sjansen | "For those of you that like simple thoughts, just memorize Foo<Double>. For those of you that want the full story, here it is: Java sucks." |
| 19:57.13 | levi | I'd certainly say that the decision to have primitive types in the language was pretty questionable, and is seen by many as a mistake. |
| 19:57.13 | elg | hehe |
| 19:57.24 | elg | well, but once you start using Double all kinds of things can go wrong |
| 19:57.29 | elg | or did they improve it since I was a student? |
| 19:57.40 | elg | you had to call all kinds of crazy methods to convert between the two |
| 19:57.48 | levi | Autoboxing should take care of that now. |
| 19:58.11 | vontrapp | a> some comment on C <b> oh wait till you learn C++!! it's way better than C! you'll never want to program C again1 <c> oh no, C# is even better! |
| 19:58.15 | sjansen | elg: Autoboxing == automatically coverting double to Double and back so that you don't have to do all that nasty casting and converting. |
| 19:58.53 | sjansen | All of the primitives are now autoboxed. In essence, Java has admitted that primitives were a mistake while maintaining backward compatibility. |
| 19:59.45 | sjansen | And if you really want to get into the nitty gritty, you could read up on type erasure. |
| 19:59.50 | levi | sjansen: Which is essentially what C++ did with C, which is why C++ is such a mess. |
| 20:00.55 | sjansen | elg: Or, you could not bother, then throw out vagues words like "type erasure", tell you students to google it, and try to look wise so they're afraid to ask anymore questions. |
| 20:01.08 | lukfugl | sjansen: I read Bruce Eckel's articles on type erasure back when -- they made my head hurt |
| 20:01.16 | sjansen | heh |
| 20:01.18 | sjansen | me too |
| 20:01.27 | lukfugl | both in the "huh? how does that work?" and in the "huh? *why* did they do that?" ways |
| 20:01.40 | sjansen | the basics are very simple, but the complexity curve suddenly turn asymptotic |
| 20:01.46 | brac | the basics of perl. As a number of its time to buy one of which sometimes confuses people |
| 20:02.05 | lukfugl | perl + confuses == good sentence, brac ;) |
| 20:07.46 | sjansen | levi: Frankly, I don't think autoboxing is worthy of the C -> C++ comparison. Completely different degrees of evil. Type erasure, OTOH, is worthy of the C -> C++ comparison. |
| 20:08.38 | levi | sjansen: I meant a higher level sort of comparison, i.e. 'doing things that way was a mistake, but we will support it for backwards-compatibility reasons' |
| 20:12.28 | levi | And as far as I understand things, type erasure is not fundamentally bad, it's just that the Java implementation of it is bad. |
| 20:12.46 | findlay | ooh, levi and sjansen on C vs C++ :-) |
| 20:12.49 | elg | sjansen: glad to hear the primitives are autoboxed now |
| 20:12.58 | elg | that makes my day much less painful |
| 20:13.03 | sjansen | Best Buy is buing Speakeasy? Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 |
| 20:13.05 | elg | I don't have to go around explaining things to students |
| 20:13.09 | brac | I don't know why |
| 20:13.30 | levi | elg: http://lamp.epfl.ch/~emir/bqbase/2006/10/16/erasure.html |
| 20:13.31 | elg | brac: because they (best buy) want money and they (speakeasy) are sellouts |
| 20:13.32 | brac | [Comparing Impact of Type Erasure in Scala and Java] |
| 20:13.32 | brac | can do! |
| 20:13.33 | lukfugl | -chat about best buy |
| 20:13.34 | brac | best buy here. Thanks to competitive egde, product differentiation, etc... |
| 20:13.46 | elg | oh, thanks, but I don't even want to pretend to know how java implements it |
| 20:14.01 | elg | no doubt it's convoluted, impressive, and can cause brain seizures |
| 20:14.54 | sjansen | Impressive in "wow, a human being was able to hold all that it one head" sense. Scary in "anyone who claims to actually understand this is a liar or a fool" sense. |
| 20:15.06 | Lone_Wanderer | Does anyone here speak Korean? |
| 20:16.01 | levi | sjansen: Also, http://cakoose.com/wiki/type_erasure_is_not_evil |
| 20:18.05 | sjansen | I think one of the Fugals speaks Thai. Isn't that the same thing? |
| 20:18.45 | sjansen | I think UncleJesse did too, before changing his name to a symbol and buying every CD produced by Prince. |
| 20:18.58 | lukfugl | vontrapp speaks cambodian |
| 20:19.15 | Lone_Wanderer | 사랑해... 그런데... 왜 |
| 20:19.20 | Lone_Wanderer | If anyone can read that... |
| 20:19.59 | lukfugl | babelfish says "To love... But... Why" |
| 20:20.32 | Lone_Wanderer | Hmm. I wonder how accurate that is. |
| 20:20.46 | Lone_Wanderer | Since I know virtually nothing about Korean except that it's a phonetic alphabet. |
| 20:22.17 | ^Migs^ | OMG |
| 20:22.42 | ^Migs^ | I was on tech support with someone from India, and it was just gibberish. I mean, I could understand 0% of it. Normally I can understand at least 25% of what they say, but this time NOTHING. I just hung up on him. |
| 20:23.09 | Lone_Wanderer | Once I took a call from a guy, and at first he was speaking some foreign language |
| 20:23.19 | ^Migs^ | what idiots |
| 20:23.30 | ^Migs^ | anyone who speaks a foreign language is subintelligent |
| 20:23.31 | Lone_Wanderer | but after about five seconds, something clicked and I could understand him |
| 20:23.41 | Lone_Wanderer | and I realized he just had a really heavy southern drawl |
| 20:24.38 | Lone_Wanderer | It was a really strange experience though, to have these meaningless sounds all of a sudden turn into perfectly clear English. |
| 20:25.05 | Lone_Wanderer | It was like someone slapped a babelfish into my ear. |
| 20:25.09 | levi | If anyone really wants to understand the reasoning behind Java Generics, this would be the place to look: http://homepages.inf.ed.ac.uk/wadler/topics/gj.html |
| 20:25.10 | elg | did it retroactively translate what you'd already heard? |
| 20:25.11 | brac | [Wadler: GJ, Pizza, and Java] |
| 20:25.36 | Lone_Wanderer | Unfortunately, no. I just listened to the problem, then said "okay, sorry, could you give me your domain name again? I missed it the first time." |
| 20:25.48 | elg | reasoning behind java generics: hey look, templates are kind of cool. Hey, look, it's a real pain to implement in our sorry language. Hey look, we found a (convoluted) way. |
| 20:25.51 | Lone_Wanderer | And, being Southern, he graciously supplied it. |
| 20:26.05 | ^Migs^ | the end of the call went like: "can we open a WebEx conference or something?" "<mumble><mumble><mumble><mumble><mumble>" "*click*" I hope he emails me back or something. |
| 20:26.17 | ^Migs^ | at the very least, he can email me in broken English, which I can at least try to piece together |
| 20:26.54 | ^Migs^ | yeah, those Southerners are awesome |
| 20:27.36 | Lone_Wanderer | They are posessed of the unique ability to be unfailingly polite even while planting a burning cross in your yard. |
| 20:35.17 | ^Migs^ | they plant those burning crosses in the spirit of love and friendship |
| 20:37.26 | mheath_ | man it's hot |
| 20:37.37 | mheath_ | <someone_else> Stop complaining, mheath. |
| 20:37.47 | mheath_ | I saved you the trouble. No one needs to reply to that, now. |
| 20:38.55 | sjansen | Look! A house warming gift. Ain't that just the dearest thing you ever done seen? |
| 20:39.31 | mheath_ | ~warm sjansen's house |
| 20:41.05 | Lone_Wanderer | What's with the burning crosses anyway? |
| 20:41.41 | Lone_Wanderer | I'll grant that it's an ominous symbol, but no moreso than anything burning would be. |
| 20:41.54 | beandog | I wouldnt even call it ominous |
| 20:42.08 | beandog | Im just like, huh ... a burning cross. Thats weird. |
| 20:42.39 | Lone_Wanderer | Well, if you woke up in the middle of the night with a burning Star of David in your front yard, wouldn't you be a bit concerned that some crazy person was around leaving burning things on your property? |
| 20:44.57 | sjansen | levi: The opening paragraphs of Type Erasure Isn't Evil was all it took to help me see the error of my ways. From now on, I'll try to say "Java Type Erasure was implemented poorly" or "Java-style type erasure is evil". |
| 20:49.04 | goozbach | sjansen: shouldn't it just be: "Java <thingy> is evil |
| 20:49.08 | goozbach | "? |
| 20:49.18 | goozbach | where <thingy> can be anything |
| 20:49.21 | findlay | -chat about java |
| 20:49.21 | brac | java went |
| 20:49.28 | findlay | -chat about evil |
| 20:49.28 | brac | evil did |
| 20:49.33 | findlay | -chat |
| 20:49.34 | brac | what does your SER SUBSCRIBE for now |
| 20:49.38 | findlay | yes |
| 20:49.40 | goozbach | -chat about java evil |
| 20:49.40 | brac | java evil |
| 20:49.45 | goozbach | bah |
| 20:50.27 | findlay | heh |
| 20:50.27 | sjansen | -chat about evil java |
| 20:50.27 | brac | evil java book) would think it was facetious. |
| 20:50.49 | sjansen | goozbach: brac obviously thinks you can't handle discovering how truly evil java is |
| 20:51.14 | findlay | -chat about sjansen |
| 20:51.14 | brac | sjansen was about to say the titles were a mistake |
| 20:51.19 | findlay | -chat about goozbach |
| 20:51.20 | brac | goozbach went |
| 20:51.20 | goozbach | aparently not |
| 20:51.31 | goozbach | -chat about goozbach is |
| 20:51.31 | brac | goozbach is such a pain |
| 20:51.36 | goozbach | hey! |
| 20:51.58 | goozbach | I'm gonna grep my logs for that |
| 20:52.10 | findlay | -chat about findlay |
| 20:52.10 | brac | findlay went |
| 20:52.14 | findlay | dude |
| 20:52.29 | maquis | -chat about maquis |
| 20:52.29 | brac | maquis had |
| 20:52.35 | maquis | -chat about maquis is |
| 20:52.36 | brac | maquis is slightly different, but it looks like a cross pen/pencil set, though I'm sure someone in here on rpms |
| 20:52.42 | findlay | -chat about findlay did |
| 20:52.43 | brac | findlay did |
| 20:52.45 | findlay | -chat about findlay is |
| 20:52.45 | brac | findlay is tempted to change a setting somewhere you have the different sessions... |
| 20:52.59 | findlay | maquis: are you on rpms? |
| 20:53.45 | sjansen | This is maquis. This is maquis on rpm. Any questions? |
| 20:53.58 | goozbach | hmm? I said I'm a pain |
| 20:54.00 | goozbach | interesting |
| 20:54.18 | findlay | -chat about rpm |
| 20:54.19 | brac | rpm was |
| 20:54.31 | maquis | -chat about findlay is |
| 20:54.31 | brac | findlay is developing a language is called. But they're certainly on the fritz. |
| 20:54.52 | maquis | lol... your language is on the fritz? |
| 20:56.04 | findlay | heh |
| 20:56.18 | findlay | -chat about ibot is |
| 20:56.18 | brac | ibot is a good time! |
| 20:56.26 | findlay | ~shoot brac |
| 20:56.28 | ibot | ACTION shoots brac in the ear with a frozen turkey cannon! |
| 20:56.38 | maquis | doh... windoze b0rk3d again |
| 20:56.39 | findlay | ~shoot stuff |
| 20:56.40 | ibot | ACTION shoots stuff in the foot with a frozen turkey cannon! |
| 20:56.57 | sjansen | maquis probably isn't even old enough to remember the "this is your brain" ads... how much of #utah even remembers them as something other than ironic references a decade later? |
| 20:56.57 | findlay | ~wista maquis |
| 20:56.58 | ibot | forces maquis to spend $1500 and upgrade to windows vista |
| 20:57.12 | findlay | I remember them |
| 20:57.20 | maquis | sjansen: i remember them |
| 20:57.21 | levi | I remember them, of course. |
| 20:57.33 | levi | How about the "Where's the Beef?" ads? |
| 20:57.43 | findlay | stale memories of sub quality TV time |
| 20:57.44 | sjansen | Of course. |
| 20:57.50 | sjansen | And Dunkin' Donuts. |
| 20:58.05 | findlay | then, again, is there ever such thing as quality TV programming |
| 20:58.06 | findlay | ? |
| 20:58.14 | Jayce^ | good eats |
| 20:58.20 | sjansen | I don't think there was even a single Dunkin' Donuts in ND, but we still got to learn it was "time to make the donuts". |
| 20:58.45 | levi | Now it's all about the Krispy Kremes. |
| 20:58.47 | brac | Now it's working |
| 20:59.00 | levi | I ate Krispy Kremes before they were cool, though. |
| 20:59.13 | findlay | when they were hot? |
| 20:59.35 | sjansen | I was Country, when Country wasn't cool. |
| 20:59.38 | levi | Yes, in fact, we'd go to the store and pick them up fresh from the machinery that makes them. |
| 21:00.08 | sjansen | I was Country, before Country was cool and continued to be Country after Country ceased to be cool. |
| 21:00.59 | findlay | ~cool |
| 21:01.01 | ibot | from memory, cool is there, there, everything is going to fix out |
| 21:01.10 | emcnabb | ~uncool sjansen |
| 21:01.22 | sjansen | emcnabb: I never claimed I was ever cool. |
| 21:01.24 | findlay | ~chill emcnabb |
| 21:01.25 | ibot | ACTION grabs emcnabb and rams a chillpill down emcnabb's throat with a toilet plunger |
| 21:01.35 | emcnabb | sjansen: you try to be cool; admit it |
| 21:01.37 | findlay | ooh, a little violent |
| 21:02.25 | *** join/#utah Tene (n=tene@poipu/supporter/slacker/tene) |
| 21:02.27 | sjansen | emcnabb: I'm too ahead of the curve to be cool. I'm what cool will be. Cool is merely what I used to be but have grown beyond. |
| 21:02.58 | elg | i love krispy kreme. the only reason they're good is they're loaded with fat. anytime people praise krispy kreme, we gain a little ground against the nonfat |
| 21:03.12 | elg | death to the nonfat! |
| 21:03.23 | emcnabb | sjansen: correction: you try to think of what will be cool in the future, but fail every time, making you uncool |
| 21:03.31 | dataw0lf | I just can't eat donuts anymore. Used to love em, but my sweet tooth has declined rapidly since my teens. |
| 21:04.23 | elg | i was never much of a donut fan, actually |
| 21:04.28 | elg | but that's beside the point |
| 21:04.34 | elg | the war on nonfat requires sacrifice |
| 21:05.37 | beandog | did anyone else's gmails contacts disappear on jabber |
| 21:05.50 | goozbach | donut wears pink |
| 21:05.53 | mheath_ | ~praise Johnny Cash |
| 21:05.54 | ibot | All hail Johnny Cash! |
| 21:06.00 | goozbach | "it's light red" |
| 21:06.07 | goozbach | also known as "pink" |
| 21:06.19 | Tene | elg: yes, I can't talk to anyone on gmail through my jabber server. |
| 21:06.31 | Tene | erm... beadog: |
| 21:06.34 | Tene | argh. |
| 21:06.58 | elg | Tene: retry, fail, abort? |
| 21:07.08 | Tene | abort |
| 21:07.09 | mheath_ | abort. |
| 21:07.13 | *** join/#utah jadoba_ (n=jim@c-68-80-2-48.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 21:07.36 | mheath_ | Cannot abort. retry, fail, abort? |
| 21:07.41 | sjansen | All hail the Man in Black! |
| 21:07.47 | elg | i contend that maquis and findlay do _not_ remember the "this is your brain on drugs" commercials |
| 21:08.05 | elg | but rather the not-really-like-the-original sequels |
| 21:08.07 | mheath_ | I had no idea he did a Nine Inch Nails cover. I find that so awesome. |
| 21:08.11 | goozbach | elg: at least not first hand |
| 21:08.33 | elg | well sure maybe they saw them on youtube or something |
| 21:08.53 | sjansen | If you were taught to DARE instead of "Just Say No", you didn't grow up under Reagan. |
| 21:09.08 | sjansen | If you didn't know that ketchup is a vegetable, you didn't grow up under Reagan. |
| 21:10.01 | goozbach | is that where "ketchup is a vegtable" comes from? |
| 21:10.29 | levi | Ketchup is also a good source of lycopene! Or so the bottle tells me. |
| 21:10.36 | goozbach | I first learned the phrase from Star Warped |
| 21:12.34 | sjansen | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:14.22 | sjansen | If you don't know who Christa McAuliffe was, or feel a little sad when you hear the name Challenger, you didn't grow up under Reagan. |
| 21:14.45 | goozbach | sjansen: you're just a fogie |
| 21:14.48 | elg | i was in the 3rd grade I think |
| 21:14.49 | goozbach | get used to it |
| 21:14.56 | goozbach | elg: you too |
| 21:14.56 | elg | the girl I had a crush on was named Christa |
| 21:15.06 | Jayce^ | 4th grade... was at recess.. |
| 21:15.11 | tensai | you know what's even worse than either top posting or bottom posting? |
| 21:15.11 | goozbach | fogies all! |
| 21:15.13 | sjansen | If you think Star Wars is just 3 bad movies, followed by a great movie, and two okay movies, you didn't grow up under Reagan. |
| 21:15.24 | elg | haha |
| 21:15.32 | tensai | mixing them and using a client that doesn't quote properly (Outlook) |
| 21:15.45 | findlay | tensai: I'm so sorry |
| 21:15.53 | findlay | you have my sympathy |
| 21:15.57 | goozbach | tensai: while posting an image (embedded) to a mailing list? |
| 21:16.27 | tensai | company standard is to top post. it works and it's really the only way to do it considering everybody but me uses Outlook. |
| 21:16.58 | tensai | but one guy insists on putting his remarks inline. now, in isolation, he's doing it correctly. but in context it creates a mess. |
| 21:18.27 | *** join/#utah Zelut (n=christer@ubuntu/member/zelut) |
| 21:19.15 | elg | i thought we were going to have to make do without zelutry for a second, there |
| 21:19.35 | sjansen | tensai: You should write a virus that old affects top posters, then "discover" it, tell everyone in the company to get a clue, and finally add a filter to the email server that deletes top posts to "protect" everyone. |
| 21:32.04 | Tene | tensai: just patch outlook to default to bottom-posting. |
| 21:32.12 | *** join/#utah Zelut (n=christer@kuyaedz.fttp.xmission.com) |
| 21:39.42 | findlay | ~dell sjansen |
| 21:39.46 | ibot | Dude! sjansen's getting a dell! |
| 21:40.45 | ^Migs^ | http://www.linuxgenuineadvantage.org/ |
| 21:40.52 | ^Migs^ | Linux Genuine Advantage. is an exciting and mandatory new way for you to place your computer under the remote control of an untrusted third party! |
| 21:40.54 | ^Migs^ | hahaha |
| 21:43.46 | ^Migs^ | was Jesus literate? |
| 21:44.20 | Tene | Of *COURSE* he was, migs. He wrote the bible, remember?!?! |
| 21:44.29 | ^Migs^ | lol |
| 21:44.56 | jsmith | Was it written in pen or pencil? |
| 21:45.15 | Tene | pen, because the bible can never be changed or added to. |
| 21:45.50 | emcnabb | didn't he have a printing press, or are my timelines all messed up? |
| 21:46.18 | ^Migs^ | no, the Bible began as a wiki |
| 21:46.48 | Tene | Of course he didn't have a printing press. Don't you know what printing presses are used for? Pornography! |
| 21:46.49 | ^Migs^ | but then when the can't be added or changed came along, a moderator locked it |
| 21:46.57 | Tene | All good christians are anti-technology, emcnabb. |
| 21:46.59 | ^Migs^ | I thought magazines were for pornography |
| 21:47.29 | *** join/#utah wps (n=wps@208.53.47.251) |
| 21:47.46 | Tene | http://mike.newsvine.com/_news/2007/03/27/633799-hacking-john-mccain |
| 21:47.47 | emcnabb | Tene: that's right. they made the printing press for distributing ASCII porn |
| 21:47.58 | emcnabb | my history classes are all coming to mind now |
| 21:48.18 | emcnabb | ASCII was around in 30 AD, right? |
| 21:52.56 | *** join/#utah Zelut_ (n=christer@kuyaedz.fttp.xmission.com) |
| 21:54.39 | findlay | emcnabb: it was 30 BC |
| 22:02.19 | findlay | how do you configure COM ports in windows? |
| 22:04.28 | Tene | findlay: isn't that covered in the manual? |
| 22:04.45 | findlay | Tene: nope |
| 22:05.09 | findlay | all I know about windows is it's a hateful platform |
| 22:05.37 | findlay | binary, broken, proprietary garbage |
| 22:06.27 | levi | findlay: I think you bring all the hate to the party. Windows is just a bunch of bits. |
| 22:07.33 | dataw0lf | WinSock and the Windows C API is all I remember. And it's hell. Hell on earth! |
| 22:08.21 | findlay | dataw0lf: did you know you can run winsock in dosemu? |
| 22:08.36 | dataw0lf | int WINAPI WinMain(HINSTANCE hInstance, HINSTANCE hPInstance, LPSTR lpCmdL, int nCmdShow) OMGZ H E DOUBLE HOCKEY STICKS |
| 22:08.41 | dataw0lf | findlay: for the love of God no! |
| 22:09.55 | dataw0lf | I remember when they came out with MFC, and it was just too much. I almost died sobbing in a corner. |
| 22:22.18 | spr | ~seen herlo |
| 22:22.41 | ibot | herlo is currently on #ubuntu-utah #utah #uphpu. Has said a total of 68 messages. Is idling for 1h 7m 35s, last said: 'atoponce: ping'. |
| 22:22.41 | Jayce^ | dataw0lf, yeah, I had a boss that was constantly carping on us perl/open source guys.. was forcing the development to move to MFC so there was *REAL* support, and a *STABLE* development platform |
| 22:22.41 | Jayce^ | HAH |
| 22:22.41 | Jayce^ | spr, you coming tonight? |
| 22:22.41 | dataw0lf | Jayce^: I'd go insane |
| 22:22.42 | Jayce^ | dataw0lf, better, I left.. |
| 22:22.49 | dataw0lf | hehe, that's a much better solution |
| 22:22.49 | spr | Jayce^: not sure yet. I've got a lot of stuff to do, and it's all the way up in SLC |
| 22:22.49 | Jayce^ | spr, but it's BBQ :) |
| 22:22.50 | spr | I know, that's why I'm having trouble deciding |
| 22:23.31 | dataw0lf | ~seen dataw0lf |
| 22:23.46 | ibot | dataw0lf is currently on #utah #uphpu. Has said a total of 128 messages. Is idling for 15s, last said: '~seen dataw0lf'. |
| 22:23.46 | findlay | ~MFC |
| 22:23.48 | ibot | Microsoft Foundation Classes, or crap |
| 22:24.46 | Jayce^ | spr, if you want we could meet up in AF and carpool the rest of the way |
| 22:25.04 | findlay | Jayce^: why are you having a BBQ? |
| 22:25.15 | Jayce^ | findlay, UTOS meeting |
| 22:25.19 | findlay | oh |
| 22:25.30 | Jayce^ | although for conference I'm planning on doing a pork butt, and some beans :) |
| 22:31.35 | spr | Jayce^: that'd work for me |
| 22:35.20 | Jayce^ | of course, he didnt' post a time... |
| 22:35.25 | brac | of course, use a dictionary |
| 22:35.53 | lukfugl | brac: of course |
| 22:36.23 | spr | Jayce^: From IRC last week I have 7pm |
| 22:36.39 | Jayce^ | ok, so when do you want to meet? |
| 22:36.51 | spr | whenever works for you |
| 22:37.26 | Jayce^ | wondering what the traffic will be like on the way. |
| 22:37.41 | Jayce^ | 6 - 6:15? |
| 22:38.42 | spr | that'd be fine |
| 22:39.13 | Jayce^ | main |
| 22:39.24 | Jayce^ | grr |
| 23:01.07 | *** join/#utah beandog (n=sdibb@gentoo/developer/beandog) |
| 23:10.07 | *** join/#utah TimRiker (n=timr@216.49.181.128) |
| 23:10.07 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 23:16.21 | herlo | spr: its in Midvale, not in SLC |
| 23:17.00 | spr | herlo: it's still far away for me |
| 23:18.05 | spr | And it is SLC County :) |
| 23:18.11 | herlo | spr: I'll pay for your gas... |
| 23:18.27 | herlo | spr: no SLC is not a county, SL is a county |
| 23:18.51 | spr | herlo: don't worry, Jayce^ and I are carpooling. |
| 23:19.12 | spr | SL, SLC, eh. |
| 23:37.34 | *** join/#utah graphyx (n=graphyx@205.208.245.105) |
| 23:39.45 | *** part/#utah graphyx (n=graphyx@205.208.245.105) |
| 23:39.48 | *** join/#utah graphyx (n=graphyx@205.208.245.105) |
| 23:59.55 | *** join/#utah jsmith (n=jsmith@000-191-934.area3.spcsdns.net) |
