| 00:01.05 | findlay | how do you tell an XHTML <td> to wrap? |
| 00:01.15 | maquis | http://www.endless.com/dp/B000N37AB6/ref=ord_crt_shr/?fromPage=cart <-- these are nice ones :) |
| 00:01.28 | maquis | mheath: those are nice too |
| 00:01.31 | *** join/#utah sontek (n=sontek@c-67-161-252-206.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 00:02.23 | levi_home | mheath: There are plenty of stylish shoes at Nordstrom's. |
| 00:02.57 | maquis | there's nothing wrong with stuff like loafers and such... :) |
| 00:02.59 | levi_home | maquis: What does dressing like an adult mean? |
| 00:03.01 | mheath | maquis, Let me rephrase |
| 00:03.11 | mheath | The immediate thing I am shopping for is clothing to wear this weekend |
| 00:03.35 | mheath | I am going to Myrtle Beach, during college's Spring Break. |
| 00:03.49 | mheath | Slacks, Shirt, Tie, And nice shoes are not the order of the day. |
| 00:04.05 | maquis | levi_home: dressing nice... |
| 00:04.28 | maquis | nice top, slacks or nice jeans, nice shoes, etc. |
| 00:04.32 | mheath | I want something _very_ casual and nice. I have been wearing something 'adult' non-stop for the past 4 months. |
| 00:04.53 | maquis | most of my coworkers are pretty good about that, although some of them still dress like middle/high schoolers |
| 00:05.10 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@216.31.27.110) |
| 00:05.51 | findlay | maquis: what's the difference between jeans and 'nice jeans'? |
| 00:05.52 | mheath | Hey, I would argue the clothing I wear is all very nice |
| 00:06.02 | mheath | And adult |
| 00:06.02 | findlay | oh sure :) |
| 00:06.14 | maquis | findlay: nice jeans fit well (not baggy), don't have holes, etc... |
| 00:06.16 | sontek | nice jeans are ones that come with holes in them to start |
| 00:06.19 | mheath | findlay, Hey, My Johnny Cash's kick butt. |
| 00:06.32 | sontek | jeans are ones that get holes over time |
| 00:07.00 | levi_home | I'm wearing these shoes right now: http://www.buckle.com/sdx/216812.jsp |
| 00:07.00 | brac | [The Buckle :: Bullboxer Rocky Shoe - Free Shipping Offer on Buckle.com] |
| 00:07.11 | findlay | maquis: I'm gradually coming to the determination that there are no nice jeans |
| 00:07.26 | findlay | I wish I didn't wear them exclusively |
| 00:07.26 | findlay | or at all |
| 00:07.36 | mheath | Hmm, perhaps someone could answer a quick financial question |
| 00:07.40 | maquis | findlay: they are hard to find, but i've seen some nice pairs of jeans on occasion at work |
| 00:07.46 | findlay | heh |
| 00:08.01 | findlay | fashion is not for me |
| 00:08.06 | mheath | I have a new credit card (looking to establish my credit). I have a fair amount of money, and don't need / really want to buy anything on credit, but again, I'm trying to establish some credit. |
| 00:08.30 | mheath | My dad is convinced that simply _having_ the card, even if it has $0 balance, will grow your credit. Whereas I've heard some conflicting things elsewhere. Whats the truth? |
| 00:08.45 | maquis | mheath: my understanding is that you have to actually use it on occasion |
| 00:08.48 | maquis | but pay it off immediately |
| 00:08.58 | levi_home | mheath: Having an open revolving credit account will help, but carrying a balance helps more. |
| 00:09.12 | sontek | Having the card will establish some card, even if don't use it, but it'll look much better if you atleast buy a couple double cheese burgers on it and pay it off before the next month |
| 00:10.13 | sontek | creditors look at credit length as a major decision maker |
| 00:14.21 | sontek | I have a sears credit card that I opened like 4 years ago and they increase the credit limit every year and I don't use it |
| 00:14.49 | Lone_Wanderer | sontek: That's good for your credit rating. |
| 00:14.59 | mheath | ~praise Dog Tag Silencers |
| 00:15.00 | ibot | All hail Dog Tag Silencers! |
| 00:15.01 | Lone_Wanderer | Having credit but not using it. |
| 00:15.12 | mheath | ~lart Making Noise as you Walk |
| 00:16.07 | Lone_Wanderer | mheath: Your dad is correct. Just having it will improve your credit vastly. Having and not using it is good. Being close to or at the limit is worse than not having it. |
| 00:18.09 | *** part/#utah Lone_Wanderer (n=chatzill@cg.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 00:34.08 | elg | mheath: having without using: good. having and using responsibly (pay off every month), better. |
| 00:34.24 | elg | buying a car, great. ;-) |
| 00:34.39 | elg | buying a house, super great |
| 00:34.52 | elg | but you start at the beginning |
| 00:35.21 | elg | btw, I've been very impressed with Navy Federal Credit Union. If you don't already, you should get an account with them. They'd be a good place to go for loans or credit cards |
| 00:39.20 | *** join/#utah zerdith (n=zerdith@66-188-62-36.dhcp.bycy.mi.charter.com) |
| 00:41.18 | *** join/#utah jNb3k (n=jNb3k@24.10.178.17) |
| 00:43.48 | mheath | elg, thats where my credit card is from :) |
| 00:47.25 | elg | most impressive bank/CU I've ever dealt with. Too bad there's no local branches (have to do everything by mail) |
| 00:47.50 | *** join/#utah jsmith (n=jsmith@68.246.194.73) |
| 00:48.18 | elg | i lost my card once, and called for a new one. they were able to let me set my pin number over the phone for the new card |
| 00:59.50 | mheath | I like having a credit card :) |
| 00:59.56 | mheath | I like the trust |
| 01:00.18 | mheath | It's a statement saying: We trust that, if we give you $1,000, you WILL pay it back. :) |
| 01:01.10 | *** join/#utah nick125_lappy (n=nick@nat.nick125.com) |
| 01:01.37 | levi_home | "And we hope you will take a really long time doing so, so we can make lots of money" |
| 01:02.02 | mheath | Nah |
| 01:02.13 | mheath | Thats why I go through a Credit Union, not a Bank. |
| 01:02.57 | levi_home | What, you think they give you the card out of the goodness of their heart? They want to make money, and they do that when you carry a balance and pay interest. |
| 01:03.02 | mheath | And why I get a rebutable card I was legitimately approved for, not an OMG! PREAPPROVED! ULTRA-GOLD-PRIME TRIPLE-QUADRUPLE AWARDS CARD! |
| 01:03.32 | mheath | levi_home, Its a credit union. They are NOT out to make a profit off of me. |
| 01:03.46 | mheath | I OWN part of Navy Federal Credit Union, technically |
| 01:03.53 | goozbach | money, yes, a profit, not so much |
| 01:04.00 | mheath | You don't rip off your shareholders. |
| 01:04.24 | mheath | They need money to support their operations, yes, and they get that. But they don't try to rip you off. |
| 01:04.34 | levi_home | I didn't say they tried to rip you off. |
| 01:04.56 | mheath | They don't hope you'll spend a long time paying abck the card |
| 01:05.19 | mheath | There is no "they" anyway, the only "they" is the owners, who would be the people affected. |
| 01:05.44 | vontrapp | -lart violent sneeze attacks |
| 01:06.06 | vontrapp | stinking thing never releases on drags |
| 01:08.10 | goozbach | bah, a credit card is never a good idea |
| 01:08.58 | goozbach | 1. earn money |
| 01:09.08 | goozbach | 2. spend less than you earn |
| 01:09.15 | goozbach | 3. save your money |
| 01:09.20 | goozbach | 4. ??? |
| 01:09.24 | goozbach | 5. profit |
| 01:09.29 | levi_home | goozbach: Those 3 steps do not rule out the use of credit cards. |
| 01:09.32 | emcnabb | I use my credit card as a convenient way to pay for stuff |
| 01:09.41 | emcnabb | and I like the rewards programs |
| 01:09.47 | goozbach | that's what debit cards are for |
| 01:09.55 | emcnabb | my new fidelity CC gives me $75 for every $5000 I spend |
| 01:10.18 | goozbach | it also lets you spend money that you don't have |
| 01:10.26 | emcnabb | goozbach: CC usually have much better protection against theft, fraud, etc |
| 01:10.29 | levi_home | goozbach: Used properly, credit cards can make you money. |
| 01:10.32 | emcnabb | goozbach: if you use it that way |
| 01:10.37 | goozbach | levi_home: it violates rule #2 |
| 01:10.41 | emcnabb | I have never spend more than I have had |
| 01:10.45 | emcnabb | *ever* |
| 01:10.54 | emcnabb | you choose to spend more than you have |
| 01:10.57 | levi_home | goozbach: You must be missing the concept of self control. |
| 01:10.58 | goozbach | you're responsible, congrats |
| 01:11.09 | emcnabb | levi_home: exactly |
| 01:11.16 | emcnabb | it's not the CC's fault |
| 01:11.30 | levi_home | goozbach: If you don't have self control, #2 just isn't going to happen. |
| 01:11.35 | emcnabb | "ban cars because you can run over people with them" |
| 01:13.44 | goozbach | properly budgeted, with an appropate emergency fund one should NEVER have to buy something on credit |
| 01:14.05 | emcnabb | I just charge stuff on my card and pay it off every month |
| 01:14.21 | emcnabb | I know how much I can charge |
| 01:14.30 | tensai | ~rlart |
| 01:15.12 | levi_home | goozbach: Credit can work for you or work against you. Your philosophy is a safe one, but not necessarily best. |
| 01:15.42 | rsimpkins | Hard to get a credit score unless you borrow money. |
| 01:16.27 | levi_home | goozbach: And having a credit card doesn't mean you have to carry a balance. You can get all the perks without having to pay any interest thanks to the grace period. |
| 01:16.37 | emcnabb | levi_home: amen |
| 01:16.50 | emcnabb | they still make money off of the transactions I make |
| 01:16.51 | goozbach | you don't need a credit score |
| 01:17.06 | levi_home | goozbach: You're a looney. |
| 01:17.11 | goozbach | levi_home: yup |
| 01:17.14 | elg | emcnabb: a debit card with the VISA symbol on it is every bit as protected as a credit card (and is probably a credit card too) |
| 01:17.18 | emcnabb | goozbach: have you bought a house yet? |
| 01:17.27 | goozbach | a completely out of debt looney |
| 01:17.33 | emcnabb | elg: until they use it as a debit card |
| 01:17.43 | elg | even when used as Debit, with the exception of when it's processed off-network (e.g. by an atm network different than their own) |
| 01:17.53 | elg | but at POS it's the same |
| 01:17.57 | elg | visa protected |
| 01:18.01 | goozbach | yup |
| 01:18.03 | elg | I have family in the business |
| 01:18.15 | elg | the POS business, that is |
| 01:18.24 | emcnabb | piece of what? :-) |
| 01:18.32 | elg | point of S___ |
| 01:18.34 | elg | ;-) |
| 01:18.38 | emcnabb | I know :-) |
| 01:18.55 | elg | goozbach: it's a good philosophy until you have to buy a house |
| 01:19.05 | elg | unless you're very very lucky you won't be able to pay cash for a house |
| 01:19.13 | goozbach | debt for a house, I can understand |
| 01:19.13 | elg | and you'll need credit to get a mortgage |
| 01:19.24 | goozbach | but you don't need a credit score |
| 01:19.37 | emcnabb | I just went through that a while back, and they pulled up my credit score |
| 01:19.38 | elg | i haven't applied for a mortgage, but I understand that you do |
| 01:19.49 | levi_home | Um, yeah. Good luck getting a decent mortgage without one. |
| 01:19.55 | emcnabb | the lender walked through it with me |
| 01:20.02 | elg | so live your philosophy, but do it in a way that builds credit |
| 01:20.22 | elg | i.e. buy a car on credit and pay it off quickly. get a credit card and use it and pay it off quickly |
| 01:20.27 | levi_home | Having credit is good, even if you never use it. |
| 01:21.01 | levi_home | Chances are, you will at least use it when you buy a house. |
| 01:21.35 | goozbach | you don't need a credit score to buy a house |
| 01:21.48 | goozbach | just find a lender who subsides the loan directly |
| 01:22.12 | goozbach | if you've got the income, and no debt, you can still get a great mortage |
| 01:22.26 | findlay | atoponce: did you see it made /.? |
| 01:22.44 | emcnabb | goozbach: but they still use it as a factor |
| 01:22.52 | levi_home | goozbach: Good luck with that. |
| 01:23.52 | findlay | http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/03/21/171240 |
| 01:24.22 | goozbach | I won't buy anthing smaller than a house on credit |
| 01:24.43 | goozbach | and even then it'll be a 10yr fixed mortgage |
| 01:24.54 | levi_home | goozbach: Good for you, but that's not going to work for everyone. |
| 01:24.57 | emcnabb | goozbach: I don't either; once again, I just use CC as a convenient way to pay for stuff and get rewards |
| 01:25.12 | goozbach | emcnabb: you can do the same with a debit card |
| 01:25.27 | levi_home | goozbach: What debit cards give you rewards? |
| 01:26.26 | goozbach | hhttp://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/banking/2006-06-01-debit-rewards-usat_x.htm |
| 01:26.27 | brac | [USATODAY.com - Some banks offer reward points for debit card use] |
| 01:26.27 | emcnabb | all I know is that fidelity dropped $75 into my Roth IRA last week |
| 01:26.27 | emcnabb | better than any debit card program I saw |
| 01:26.31 | goozbach | http://www.lockheedfcu.org/Products_Services/Debit_Card_Rewards/ |
| 01:26.31 | atoponce | findlay: yeah |
| 01:26.33 | brac | [Debit Card Rewards] |
| 01:26.37 | atoponce | findlay: cool, eh? |
| 01:27.13 | goozbach | http://www.chemicalbankmi.com/personal/preferred_rewards_debit_card.htm |
| 01:27.14 | brac | [Preferred Rewards Debit Card] |
| 01:27.29 | goozbach | ~google debit card rewards |
| 01:27.54 | levi_home | goozbach: Anyway, your die-hard anti-credit stance is amusing, but you're not convincing me. |
| 01:28.10 | emcnabb | just don't carry a balance, and you're fine |
| 01:29.44 | findlay | looks like both MS and N are cranking up the FUD this time |
| 01:29.49 | findlay | this will be fun to watch |
| 01:30.10 | findlay | heh, credit scores are so artificial |
| 01:32.26 | atoponce | findlay: http://news.google.com/nwshp?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&oe=UTF-8&channel=s&tab=wn&ned=us&ncl=1114499693&hl=en |
| 01:34.10 | goozbach | all the credit score boils down to is "how likley are we to make money off of loaning this guy money?" |
| 01:34.21 | atoponce | findlay: the xmission site has taken 3000 hits today... |
| 01:34.33 | elg | i think the point of credit score is to know how likely they are to not default |
| 01:34.54 | elg | sure, they'd rather you fall in the middle - pay lots of interest but pay it on time |
| 01:35.09 | elg | but they'd rather lend to someone who pays back with little interest than one that has to go to collections |
| 01:35.21 | elg | credit scores are to filter out the people that will default |
| 01:36.59 | goozbach | yes, that would be classified as "we're not likley to make money on this guy cause he's likley to make us work to get our money back" |
| 01:37.28 | goozbach | or file bankrupcy |
| 01:37.40 | findlay | I'd rather that I never borrowed money |
| 01:37.52 | elg | yes. I suppose I read what you said as more like "does this guy pay the minimum payment and therefore load our pockets with interest?" |
| 01:38.51 | elg | anyway, I'm ok with them wanting to only lend to people that will pay them back. If they didn't do that, then those of us that will pay back would have to bear the burden of the defaulters more, in the form of higher interest |
| 01:51.40 | findlay | atoponce: http://jonathancarter.co.za/microsoft-blatantly-anti-linux |
| 01:51.43 | *** join/#utah Chilly (n=chatzill@64.192.46.92) |
| 01:52.15 | Lone_Wanderer | I have a somewhat urgent question. |
| 01:52.28 | Lone_Wanderer | Once a drive has been formatted, is it possible to retrieve files from it? |
| 01:52.41 | findlay | good question |
| 01:52.49 | Lone_Wanderer | This was a full format, not a quick one. |
| 01:52.57 | Lone_Wanderer | Oh. Oh! |
| 01:53.04 | atoponce | findlay: nice |
| 01:53.06 | Lone_Wanderer | It was cut and pasted off of another drive. |
| 01:53.09 | findlay | with highly expensive proceedures I guess |
| 01:53.13 | mheath | Depends on a lot of factors |
| 01:53.20 | Lone_Wanderer | Which means that it can be recovered from the original one. |
| 01:53.22 | mheath | You might be able to retrieve some data |
| 01:53.26 | findlay | or there may be some highly specialized open source tools out there |
| 01:53.27 | mheath | But your results may be mixed |
| 01:53.29 | atoponce | findlay: i think this is getting a lot of press, and that's a good thing. ツ |
| 01:53.42 | findlay | atoponce: did you see he linked to your blog? |
| 01:53.44 | Lone_Wanderer | I'll just grab them off of this disk. |
| 01:54.04 | atoponce | findlay: yeah. got a trackback ping in my comments on it. just noticed |
| 01:54.18 | atoponce | i should comment on his |
| 01:56.12 | Lone_Wanderer | Does anyone know of a more or less decent (free or otherwise) file recovery utility? |
| 02:00.08 | mheath | Yah, unbiased news at its finest: "No one was home Wednesday at the Pollard house in a dingy alley." |
| 02:01.28 | tene | ibot: :wq |
| 02:01.38 | ibot | well, wq is Wrong Question: The answer to your question is, "wrong question". Whatever you're trying to do, you aren't going about it the right way. Step back and ask us how to fix the problem -- not how to confrobulate an incomfrobulatable device. |
| 02:03.50 | findlay | ~:wq! tene |
| 02:03.57 | findlay | ~ZZ tene |
| 02:04.35 | mheath | findlay lives in a dingy alley. :P |
| 02:04.54 | findlay | ~ZZ stuff |
| 02:04.56 | ibot | ACTION writes and quits tene whether findlay liked it or not |
| 02:05.22 | tene | Hah! Whether you liked it *OR NOT*! |
| 02:05.27 | findlay | ~ZZ stuff |
| 02:05.30 | ibot | ACTION writes and quits stuff whether findlay liked it or not |
| 02:12.15 | findlay | ~ding mheath |
| 02:12.21 | findlay | ~ding |
| 02:12.22 | ibot | i heard ding is dong |
| 02:12.30 | findlay | whatever |
| 02:12.49 | findlay | -chat about whatever |
| 02:12.50 | brac | whatever had |
| 02:12.55 | findlay | whatever |
| 02:13.00 | findlay | -chat about stuff |
| 02:13.01 | brac | stuff had |
| 02:13.04 | findlay | -chat |
| 02:13.05 | brac | I agree with somebody if a 2d universe populated with intelligent life. |
| 02:15.52 | findlay | ~ZZ brac |
| 02:15.53 | ibot | ACTION writes and quits brac whether findlay liked it or not |
| 02:37.50 | *** join/#utah graphyx (n=graphyx@205.208.245.105) |
| 02:38.27 | *** join/#utah wps (n=wps@208.53.47.251) |
| 02:43.08 | *** join/#utah Sargun (n=xbmodder@atarack/staff/sargun) |
| 03:18.16 | tensai | oh, I missed the credit discussion :( |
| 03:18.28 | tensai | ~lart real life |
| 03:21.17 | elg | -lart tensai |
| 03:21.25 | elg | not too late to pitch in your two borrowed cents |
| 03:21.26 | tensai | nooooooooo! |
| 03:22.59 | tensai | credit scores grow slowly in the positive direction, but quickly in the negative |
| 03:24.26 | tensai | once you have some credit (car, mortgage, cc) the best thing you can do is pay your bill on time for a long time |
| 03:26.05 | elg | 鉄腕アトム |
| 03:27.39 | atoponce | ツ |
| 03:50.59 | Sargun | tu hablas japanese? |
| 03:54.48 | tensai | ええ, 分かるよ。 |
| 04:01.53 | elg | not a word |
| 04:02.27 | elg | just cut and pasted that. used to watch that (in english) when i was a kid. only anime I remember enjoying ;) |
| 04:02.27 | elg | not that I'd enjoy it now |
| 04:03.12 | elg | is ringworld worth reading? |
| 04:06.08 | levi_home | I recall liking it. |
| 04:06.15 | levi_home | I read it a long time ago, though. |
| 04:06.33 | elg | have you read wyrm by fabi? |
| 04:09.11 | levi_home | Nope. |
| 04:10.10 | elg | looks promising |
| 04:12.31 | vontrapp | what was that commercial that had a bunch of robotish people watching some big screen and some blonde comes running in and throws a hammer at the screen? |
| 04:12.39 | vontrapp | wasn't it about IBM or something? |
| 04:12.42 | elg | the mac commercial |
| 04:13.02 | elg | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYecfV3ubP8 |
| 04:13.23 | vontrapp | k, so funny story, the news just showed a clip of it and was saying something about "an internet commercial that portrays clinton as some kind of big brother figure..." |
| 04:13.39 | vontrapp | wtf? |
| 04:15.17 | elg | sounds bizzare |
| 04:15.33 | levi_home | This is pretty interesting. Someone made a Rails-like framework in Scala, and just put it to its first real-world use: http://blog.lostlake.org/index.php?/archives/45-A-real-world-use-of-lift.html |
| 04:19.00 | vontrapp | hmmm, interesting, i just watched the apple commercial, it's a guy on the screen, the one on the news had a woman on the screen, probably hillary |
| 04:19.00 | elg | what's the val junk? |
| 04:19.03 | vontrapp | some kind of spoof |
| 04:20.50 | levi_home | elg: val binds a variable to a value. |
| 04:21.03 | elg | doesn't that seem rather unnecessary? |
| 04:21.22 | elg | it does to me, anywho |
| 04:21.45 | vontrapp | what val junk? |
| 04:21.55 | elg | in scala. |
| 04:22.09 | levi_home | No, because there's a different way to declare a mutable variable, IIRC. |
| 04:22.16 | vontrapp | oh, it's like some let expression or something like that |
| 04:22.34 | levi_home | The syntax is borrowed from ML. |
| 04:22.55 | elg | don't know much about scala, but gratuitous required opaque syntax bugs me |
| 04:22.57 | brac | don't know if I'd already read the details of the semester. |
| 04:23.10 | levi_home | 'val' doesn't seem very opaque to me. |
| 04:23.15 | elg | and that's what it smacks of. i won't say i wouldn't use scala because of it, that's just my first impression |
| 04:23.20 | elg | like perl's 'my' |
| 04:23.34 | elg | but perl's is worse because it's _not_ required but should be. ;-) |
| 04:24.15 | levi_home | Actually, I prefer that introducing a variable be explicit. |
| 04:24.52 | elg | why? |
| 04:24.53 | levi_home | I don't like the Ruby/Python/etc. behavior that creates a variable when you first assign to it. |
| 04:25.13 | elg | you don't explicitly define variables in math |
| 04:25.34 | elg | you don't require people to be declared before you can interact with them IRL |
| 04:25.58 | elg | you don't declare your table before you can set your keys on them |
| 04:26.03 | elg | er, it |
| 04:27.22 | levi_home | I like explicitly introducing variables because it makes it clear where the scope of the variable is intended to be, and it catches some annoying typo or name misrembering bugs. |
| 04:27.27 | vontrapp | elg: but if you want to name your table, you have to write the name on a postit, and stick it on there |
| 04:27.47 | vontrapp | it's that creation of the postit |
| 04:27.55 | elg | i can name the table without a postit |
| 04:28.19 | vontrapp | yeah, so can i |
| 04:28.26 | vontrapp | i guess it depends how many tables you have, if you can remember them all |
| 04:28.41 | vontrapp | but if you use small functions, you shouldn't need postits |
| 04:28.48 | elg | levi_home: I don't buy the "programmer can't manage his own code, so we have to let the IDE/compiler do it for him" argument. I know it's unpopular, but I don't |
| 04:28.53 | vontrapp | if you need a postit, use a comment :) |
| 04:29.00 | levi_home | And often you do say things like, "let x be ..." in math, or "... some equation ... where x is ...". |
| 04:29.37 | elg | comments |
| 04:29.44 | elg | or assertions |
| 04:30.05 | elg | or optional typing even, if you like, though I'm not aware of a language that does that |
| 04:30.17 | levi_home | Dylan does optional typing. |
| 04:30.46 | levi_home | Anyway, the point of Scala is not to be Ruby, it's to be a strongly-typed functional language that fully embraces object orientation. |
| 04:31.10 | levi_home | So, clearly, it's going to borrow syntax from different places than Ruby is. |
| 04:31.56 | levi_home | Snap judgements of snippets of syntax without understanding the overall grammar is a bit short-sighted, I'd say. |
| 04:32.13 | elg | *shrug* if you borrow stupid syntax, you're going to look stupid as a first impression to peaopl |
| 04:32.36 | elg | I'm not passing judgement on scala. I'm saying it wouldn't hurt language designers to abandon stupid syntax invented 20-30 years ago |
| 04:33.01 | levi_home | See, I don't think the 'val' keyword is stupid at all. |
| 04:33.21 | levi_home | Though I wouldn't mind greater syntactic experimentation. |
| 04:33.26 | elg | de gustibus non disputatum est |
| 04:34.58 | levi_home | Anyway, "val x = exp" is a far sight nicer than "public static int x = exp". |
| 04:35.45 | elg | people judge people on first impressions all the time. we judge just about everything in life on first impressions. as much as we'd like it to not be true when we or a person/language we like is the one being judged, first impressions matter |
| 04:36.10 | elg | oh, I agree with that absolutely :) I could easily get used to val. I will never like public static void main(String[] args) |
| 04:36.56 | elg | i will not like it in an IDE, I will not like it with a vim abbrev. I will not like it in a virtual machine, I will not like it here or there. I will not like it anywhere |
| 04:39.22 | elg | anyway, it's nifty that he's got something akin to rails and it's working for him, and doing much better in performance |
| 04:40.00 | elg | I'm a bit sad that it adds yet another language that I am interested in looking at to my ever-growing list, though. |
| 04:40.15 | elg | I can't even keep track of them |
| 04:40.24 | elg | let alone learn any of them |
| 04:40.44 | levi_home | I agree that first impressions are very important, but if everyone continues to discard things that look out-of-the-ordinary, we'll never get any change at all. We tend to like what we're comfortable with and what looks familiar; that depends on what we've experienced so far, though, at least as much as any objective standard. |
| 04:41.10 | levi_home | I feel your pain. |
| 04:41.42 | elg | true words, but I was judging not on some warm fuzzy but on a specific point - i don't like gratuitous syntax |
| 04:41.52 | elg | I like conciseness |
| 04:42.57 | levi_home | You say it is gratuitous, but that suggests it's not there for a good reason. |
| 04:43.29 | elg | there's always a reason |
| 04:44.03 | elg | there's a reason for public static void main(String[]args) too |
| 04:44.51 | elg | btw, ruby has its syntax warts too |
| 04:45.19 | elg | its syntax is much too complicated, though the standard working set is small enough |
| 04:45.20 | levi_home | Yeah, pretty much every language does. |
| 04:45.57 | elg | some have them on their noses, others on their toeses |
| 04:46.29 | elg | and some have more than others, warts spread on like butter |
| 04:46.36 | elg | (e.g. Perl) |
| 04:47.07 | levi_home | Heh. Well, I don't have much nice to say about perl syntax. :) |
| 04:48.01 | elg | i wonder if anyone has played with freehand as a syntax |
| 04:48.12 | elg | like math |
| 04:48.25 | elg | handwriting recognition (and handwriting) would have to improve before it would be really practical |
| 04:48.51 | elg | but it's an interesting idea. that would break the ASCII barrier. a lot of silly syntax is due to ASCII limitations |
| 04:49.03 | levi_home | Haskell attempts to copy some math idioms. |
| 04:49.18 | levi_home | Fortress attempts to take a lot more math conventions into the language. |
| 04:49.21 | elg | and a lot more is due to terminal limitations |
| 04:50.18 | levi_home | Fortress has an ASCII syntax, but it's really meant to render in unicode or TeX. |
| 04:50.20 | elg | i.e. the grid of letters |
| 04:50.53 | levi_home | Fortress really does look like it will be an interesting language, for a number of reasons. |
| 04:51.58 | elg | great. another language ;-) |
| 04:52.01 | tene | levi: such as? |
| 04:52.11 | elg | I'd better go to bed before you spring something else on me :) |
| 04:52.46 | tene | levi: tell me about fortress. |
| 04:52.48 | levi_home | Well, Fortress is still very much in the gestation phase. It only has a partial toy implementation so far, but it's got a pretty thick manual. :) |
| 04:53.28 | levi_home | tene: Guy Steele is leading a team at Sun to develop a new language for scientific computing, which is now largely done with Fortran and C. |
| 04:53.46 | tene | That sounds exciting! |
| 04:54.04 | levi_home | I can't tell if you're being facetious. :) |
| 04:54.39 | elg | it is exciting |
| 04:54.40 | levi_home | I think it's pretty exciting, but I'm a programming languages geek. |
| 04:55.07 | tene | levi: I'm not. |
| 04:55.13 | tene | :) |
| 04:55.39 | tene | I really can't tell if I'm interested in scala at all or not. |
| 04:56.14 | levi_home | It's got some interesting ideas in the areas of code syntax and layout, parallelism by default, providing a core language with powerful extension mechanisms, interesting methods for modularization and code reuse, etc. |
| 04:56.16 | tensai | I like the scala choir |
| 04:57.11 | tene | When I look at it, I just see "This is like ruby, but a little awkward and with weird syntax that I don't recognize" |
| 04:57.18 | tene | Of course, I'm not looking very closely. |
| 04:57.37 | levi_home | Scala, from my limited use of it, is kind of an interesting thing. It does a pretty good job at being what it intends to be, but what it is is actually a lot more complex than it seems on the surface. |
| 04:58.54 | tene | I've tried to look into it a few times, but I haven't seen anything interesting enough to motivate me to keep going. |
| 05:07.49 | tene | levi: while you're here and talking languages, any comments on haskell? |
| 05:09.34 | *** join/#utah fungus (n=fungus@dsl.myfungus.net) |
| 05:11.55 | levi_home | Haskell is a really cool language, but also not a simple one to pick up. |
| 05:12.39 | tene | Can you give me any reasons I should be more interested in Scala than Haskell? |
| 05:13.04 | levi_home | Scala is difficult because of the complexity of the interaction between the functional aspects and object-oriented aspects. |
| 05:13.13 | levi_home | And the type theory involved. |
| 05:13.29 | *** join/#utah zerdith (n=zerdith@66-188-62-36.dhcp.bycy.mi.charter.com) |
| 05:13.54 | levi_home | Haskell is difficult because of its purity and laziness, which are pretty different from most other functional languages, and completely in another world compared to imperative languages. |
| 05:15.16 | levi_home | I found that Caml was a pretty nice introduction to modern statically-typed languages; in the form of OCaml, it's got a large set of practical libraries, good manuals, and is relatively simple. |
| 05:16.20 | tene | What is Good and Exciting about Scala? |
| 05:18.14 | levi_home | Well, the big deal with Scala is the integration of object orientation with all the fancy stuff that comes with modern functional languages. So you get to keep a lot of your object modeling experience and knowledge of Java libraries, but you get the benefits of a full-featured type system, pattern matching, etc. |
| 05:18.47 | levi_home | They've also implemented some cool stuff, like Actors and XML parsing stuff. |
| 05:19.16 | tene | Hmm. I don't really like XML. All of my experiences with it have been frustrating or otherwise unpleasant. |
| 05:19.44 | tene | Examples of "fancy stuff that comes with modern functional languages"? |
| 05:19.49 | levi_home | I'm not crazy about XML either, but having a nice way to work with it would make it easier. |
| 05:19.53 | tene | Also, explain "Actors"? |
| 05:20.22 | levi_home | Pattern matching, type inference, etc. |
| 05:21.54 | levi_home | The Actor model was developed by a guy named Carl Hewitt back at MIT back in the 70s. It's a way of describing concurrent computation. |
| 05:23.07 | levi_home | It was one of the inspirations for Smalltalk-style object oriented programming, as well as an inspiration for the Scheme language (though it's not obvious in the Scheme example). |
| 05:23.33 | levi_home | ~wikipedia Actor_model |
| 05:24.10 | tene | Hmm. |
| 05:36.59 | levi_home | The Actor library in Scala lets you do the sorts of things that Erlang is good at. |
| 05:38.00 | levi_home | It's basically a nice way to do event-based programming. |
| 05:39.15 | levi_home | Oh, another nice functional programming thing is currying. |
| 05:40.57 | levi_home | Scala also has a syntax that lends itself towards embedded domain specific languages. |
| 05:41.26 | carrus85 | \o/! currying |
| 05:45.37 | levi_home | I'm not sure what you're trying to express with \o/! |
| 05:45.52 | levi_home | Is that throwing arms up with joy, or with exasperation? |
| 05:47.37 | carrus85 | either/or... |
| 05:48.07 | levi_home | Well, that doesn't get me anywhere with my comprehension. :) |
| 06:25.13 | findlay | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:25.20 | findlay | -o- |
| 06:25.34 | findlay | |o| |
| 06:28.25 | levi_home | Time to sleep. |
| 06:38.21 | tene | bah, sleep is for people who... y'know... can actually get up in the morning. |
| 06:38.28 | tene | >.> |
| 06:40.57 | findlay | ~ZZ sleep |
| 06:41.08 | ibot | ACTION writes and quits sleep whether findlay liked it or not |
| 06:49.01 | tene | Agreed. |
| 06:54.57 | findlay | -chat about sleep |
| 06:54.58 | brac | sleep was |
| 06:55.05 | findlay | -chat about was |
| 06:55.06 | brac | was did |
| 06:57.30 | findlay | -chat about did |
| 06:57.30 | brac | did is the project is dead especially one who decides what you need? How cheap is "relatively cheap" |
| 07:20.22 | tene | Apparently some domains associated with perl6 got caught up in the registerfly mess. |
| 08:45.51 | *** join/#utah etahhhh (n=etah52@c-24-10-163-135.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 12:15.33 | *** join/#utah pmcnabb (n=peter@c-24-10-165-203.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 12:28.13 | *** join/#utah graphyx (n=graphyx@205.208.245.105) |
| 13:24.05 | *** join/#utah ^Migs^ (n=migs@205.122.50.69) |
| 13:26.46 | *** join/#utah redbeard1 (n=redbeard@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 13:59.07 | *** join/#utah spr (n=spr@c-71-195-212-252.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 13:59.29 | redbeard1 | ~lart spr |
| 13:59.41 | spr | ~bake redbeard1 |
| 13:59.42 | ibot | I think you mean ~cook redbeard1, spr |
| 13:59.47 | spr | ~cook redbeard1 |
| 13:59.49 | ibot | ACTION throws redbeard1 in a big pan with veggies inside and cooks redbeard1 on 350 for an hour |
| 14:00.26 | redbeard1 | ~brulee spr |
| 14:00.27 | ibot | ACTION whisks spr with eggs and cream, and bakes at 350F before sprinkling with sugar and torching |
| 14:00.58 | spr | ~whaleslap redbeard1 |
| 14:00.59 | ibot | ACTION beats redbeard1 upside and over the head with a freakishly huge killer whale named Hugh |
| 14:01.06 | redbeard1 | ~recipe spr |
| 14:01.09 | redbeard1 | http://www.foodnetwork.com/food/recipes/recipe/0,1977,FOOD_9936_28891,00.html |
| 14:01.11 | brac | [Recipes : Fromage Fort : Food Network] |
| 14:02.06 | spr | hm. I'm a cheese based recipe. I can live with that |
| 14:02.34 | redbeard1 | was that the recipe that you were looking for yesterday? |
| 14:03.10 | spr | I was referring to the habenaro cheese dip/spread you made on monday |
| 14:03.41 | redbeard1 | use mango juice instead of wine, and add 3 habaneros |
| 14:03.47 | spr | ah, nifty |
| 14:03.51 | redbeard1 | that's basically the recipe i used |
| 14:03.56 | spr | now I just need a food processor |
| 14:03.59 | redbeard1 | i didn't have any parsley tho |
| 14:04.16 | elg | spr: get a slave to chop it all up by hand |
| 14:04.30 | redbeard1 | dude, i'm planning to make a batch of chipotle cheddar spread, if you want to come over for that |
| 14:05.24 | elg | ~slather redbeard1 |
| 14:05.32 | spr | redbeard1: sure |
| 14:05.32 | redbeard1 | ~sourdough elg |
| 14:05.34 | spr | elg: any recommendations on where to get a slave? |
| 14:05.34 | redbeard1 | spr: local culinary schools. |
| 14:05.35 | redbeard1 | just make it look like something that will look good in their portfolio, and they'll do anything. |
| 14:05.42 | elg | spr: you're still a sysadmin? just blackmail someone |
| 14:05.42 | redbeard1 | if you're lucky, they might even do it well. |
| 14:06.21 | redbeard1 | you guys see dinner impossible last night? |
| 14:07.46 | elg | no but I made some killer sourdough biscuits |
| 14:07.58 | elg | i think I'll go fry me sausage and have biscuits and gravy |
| 14:08.15 | elg | you too can make killer biscuits |
| 14:08.42 | elg | you can get some start from vontrapp, or I could mail it, or you could start your own start if you're masochistic |
| 14:08.45 | redbeard1 | not me. i'm a lousy baker. |
| 14:09.04 | elg | dude, it's easier than daemon cake |
| 14:09.26 | elg | mix dry and fat with your fingers, pour in liquids and stir |
| 14:09.36 | elg | turn out and cut like you did with playdough |
| 14:09.48 | elg | bake for 10 minutes. piece of cake |
| 14:10.02 | elg | http://hans.fugal.net/bread.pdf |
| 14:10.06 | redbeard1 | dude, that's so pwned |
| 14:10.25 | goozbach | redbeard1: no, it's made of awesome! |
| 14:10.48 | redbeard1 | it's a special flavor of awesome |
| 14:21.10 | emcnabb | spr: make elg your slave |
| 14:21.22 | emcnabb | he's a hard worker |
| 14:23.24 | spr | emcnabb: I don't want to deal with the import costs |
| 14:24.14 | spr | emcnabb: are you still using your desk you had in carriage cove? |
| 14:24.37 | emcnabb | spr: yeah; it's in the upstairs office, but honestly I spend most time downstairs |
| 14:24.48 | spr | how's it holding up? |
| 14:25.01 | emcnabb | ok, it's starting to show its age, but I've had it for a while now |
| 14:25.14 | emcnabb | spr: 3 moves haven't helped |
| 14:25.19 | spr | :) |
| 14:25.33 | spr | That's good to hear, since my desk is the same model |
| 14:25.34 | emcnabb | but no moves are planned for the near future |
| 14:25.48 | emcnabb | I like it; lots of desk space |
| 14:26.12 | spr | yeah, it is nice. I'm hoping it'll fit into whatever apartment I move into |
| 14:28.21 | emcnabb | with California rent, you may not find a big enough place :-) |
| 14:29.20 | spr | I know, though I've been looking and it seems that my chances aren't too bad. |
| 14:30.22 | *** join/#utah wps (n=wps@67.108.236.230.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 14:32.10 | emcnabb | spr: what's the range for a decent apartment/ |
| 14:32.11 | emcnabb | ? |
| 14:32.40 | spr | 900 - 1200/month |
| 14:32.51 | spr | depends on what city the apartment is in |
| 14:33.19 | spr | (that's for one bedroom) |
| 14:34.16 | emcnabb | ugh! |
| 14:34.28 | emcnabb | that's almost my mortgage out here :-) |
| 14:35.51 | spr | yeah, that's the downside of the bay area. |
| 14:36.34 | maquis | spr: where will you be working? |
| 14:36.50 | spr | HP |
| 14:36.58 | maquis | spr: ah... right |
| 14:42.58 | *** join/#utah sontek (n=sontek@208-47-173-164.dia.static.qwest.net) |
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| 14:51.33 | redbeard1 | goozbach: ping |
| 15:02.19 | goozbach | pong |
| 15:02.30 | *** join/#utah pmcnabb (n=peter@otherlab.cs.byu.edu) |
| 15:06.56 | elg | pang |
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| 15:19.48 | Jayce^ | almost a mortgage, that is mine + some extra |
| 15:20.10 | *** join/#utah TimRiker (n=timr@216.49.181.128) |
| 15:20.10 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 15:23.49 | sontek | Jayce^: Congratulations! =) |
| 15:24.16 | *** join/#utah lukfugl (n=lukfugl@dsl092-197-124.sea1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 15:24.41 | graphyx | Jayce^: This your first mortgage? |
| 15:24.56 | *** join/#utah amcnabb (n=amcnabb@128.187.155.154) |
| 15:24.59 | graphyx | So tell me, is there a such thing as a better idle process? |
| 15:25.51 | *** join/#utah Zelut (n=christer@ubuntu/member/zelut) |
| 15:26.01 | lukfugl | graphyx: I think it would be awesome if the idle process were a battery for cpu cycles ;) |
| 15:26.08 | graphyx | I mean can we put into place a process that does about the same thing as the idle process that doesn't consume extra power (ie bandwidth throttling) but actually does something along the lines of folding@home? |
| 15:26.10 | lukfugl | that would be a better idle process |
| 15:26.19 | graphyx | I agree on that one |
| 15:26.39 | lukfugl | get cracking on inventing it, then |
| 15:27.10 | graphyx | I'm more of a conjecturer on these things thought |
| 15:27.39 | lukfugl | I was referring to inventing the impossible cycle battery, anyways :) |
| 15:27.58 | graphyx | I know |
| 15:28.02 | graphyx | still true |
| 15:28.45 | *** join/#utah sjansen (n=sjansen@class1-nat.gurulabs.com) |
| 15:29.50 | sjansen | I'm thinking perhaps I should evaluate why the universe hates me and what I need to change... |
| 15:30.33 | sjansen | So I plugged my laptop in like usual when I got to work. For some reason it starts to PXE boot. |
| 15:30.54 | sjansen | Huh, thinks I, perhaps the hard drive didn't initialize fast enough, so I cold reboot. |
| 15:31.25 | *** join/#utah neybar (n=jalance@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 15:31.28 | sjansen | Nope, still doesn't want to boot off the hard drive. So I jump into the BIOS to check the boot order. Looks good. |
| 15:31.56 | Jayce^ | graphyx, no, old one.. |
| 15:31.57 | sjansen | While I'm there, I run a BIOS based HDD check. It claims there's no device present. |
| 15:32.18 | emcnabb | "< sjansen> I'm thinking perhaps I should evaluate why the universe hates me..." - no comment |
| 15:32.20 | Jayce^ | part of what keeps me from moving.. having that small of a mortgage for my size house |
| 15:32.27 | sjansen | Odd. So I flip the laptop over. Maybe I need to reseat the drive. |
| 15:33.02 | sjansen | There's a nice drive shaped whole where my hard drive should be. |
| 15:33.19 | Jayce^ | a whole? not a partial? |
| 15:33.26 | sjansen | Well, I guess that explains why the BIOS is ignoring my drive... |
| 15:33.28 | sjansen | ~lart Jayce^ |
| 15:33.31 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@216.31.27.110) |
| 15:33.32 | jsmith | sjansen: Sounds like my day today.... |
| 15:33.47 | jsmith | sjansen: I just had the wheel come off of my car... while I was driving it down the road |
| 15:33.52 | sjansen | jsmith: That's just a taste of my entire week so far. |
| 15:34.00 | sjansen | jsmith: Yikes! |
| 15:34.03 | jsmith | Mine too |
| 15:34.15 | jsmith | ~kill mechanics who can't tighten the lug nuts |
| 15:34.17 | ibot | ACTION shoots a magneto-ionized anti-photon gun at mechanics who can't tighten the lug nuts |
| 15:34.22 | sjansen | Maybe we could get together for a pity party. |
| 15:34.34 | Jayce^ | ~pity sjansen |
| 15:34.35 | ibot | I pity da fool sjansen! |
| 15:34.36 | sjansen | Cake, ice cream, Jayce^ shaped animal balloons. |
| 15:34.43 | dataw0lf | jsmith: dang, how fast were you going? |
| 15:34.54 | jsmith | dataw0lf: About 40 or so |
| 15:35.03 | jsmith | dataw0lf: It's not fun to see your tire go rolling past you |
| 15:35.08 | jsmith | dataw0lf: And then see sparks fly |
| 15:35.15 | *** join/#utah WoodsDog (n=woodsdog@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com) |
| 15:35.29 | dataw0lf | crikey |
| 15:35.52 | dataw0lf | yea, I probably would've had a heart attack. |
| 15:36.16 | tensai | jsmith: you shouldn't do that |
| 15:36.56 | sjansen | jsmith: So what'd you do? Pull over, sprint after your tire, do a little road side repair? |
| 15:37.27 | tensai | and then introduce the mechanic to a tire iron |
| 15:37.43 | graphyx | whoa!!! |
| 15:37.45 | graphyx | thats nuts |
| 15:37.55 | graphyx | I assume that you came out of it ok then jsmith? |
| 15:38.16 | *** join/#utah beandog (n=sdibb@gentoo/developer/beandog) |
| 15:38.38 | elg | no, they have internet in the spirit world now |
| 15:38.50 | dataw0lf | ETHERnet |
| 15:38.52 | dataw0lf | ha |
| 15:38.55 | dataw0lf | >_> |
| 15:38.56 | dataw0lf | <_< |
| 15:39.06 | dataw0lf | http://www.airguitarnation.com/new/ |
| 15:39.07 | brac | [Air Guitar Nation] |
| 15:39.09 | elg | exactly |
| 15:39.24 | elg | so when i kick the bucket, I'm gonna haunt #utah |
| 15:41.17 | Jayce^ | dataw0lf, if you're up here at the end of april, get a team up here and we could get you in this event http://www.mpaintball.com/Paradox/ |
| 15:41.20 | brac | [Paradox Games - Scenario Paintball Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, Colorado, Nevada] |
| 15:41.22 | jsmith | sjansen: Pulll over, call the mechanic, have them bring a tow truck, and then wade into the creek to retrieve the wheel |
| 15:41.48 | levi | I've had a wheel come loose while driving, but never all the way off. Yow. |
| 15:42.09 | jsmith | graphyx: Physically, I'm OK... mentally, I'd like to throttle somebody with a slice of lemon wrapped around a large gold brick |
| 15:42.15 | dataw0lf | Jayce^: Nice, I'll see what I can do. that field looks awesome. |
| 15:42.38 | Jayce^ | dataw0lf, it is, it's where we did the urban setting when we took out the Army boys |
| 15:42.49 | ^Migs^ | http://content.hamptonroads.com/story.cfm?story=121545&ran=128269 |
| 15:42.51 | graphyx | jsmith: Good hitchers quote |
| 15:42.53 | Jayce^ | got permission to use it for this event, teams coming in from 5 states :) |
| 15:43.00 | dataw0lf | nice |
| 15:44.01 | jsmith | graphyx: Yeah... I could go for an SEP invisibility field right about now |
| 15:44.54 | lukfugl | can an alcoholic beverage be used for throttling? |
| 15:45.13 | dataw0lf | if you shove it down someone's throat. |
| 15:47.59 | ^Migs^ | "Her Majesty"? "His Royal Highness, Prince Philip, the Duke of Edinburgh"? Why are Americans referring to a British queen like that? |
| 15:48.13 | ^Migs^ | and other assorted British royalty? |
| 15:50.02 | elg | why not, that's how they like to be referred to |
| 15:50.02 | dataw0lf | it's the formal address whether or not you're a Brit. |
| 15:52.40 | *** join/#utah Lone_Wanderer (n=chatzill@cg.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 15:57.03 | sjansen | heh |
| 15:58.09 | spr | ~lart roommates who leave the tv on, but aren't in the room for over half-an-hour |
| 16:00.43 | lukfugl | huh |
| 16:00.53 | lukfugl | ~lart sjansen for three days |
| 16:00.58 | lukfugl | lol |
| 16:01.17 | levi | Huh, I just got a spam email addressed to me using my company name offering offshore IT services. |
| 16:01.57 | elg | levi: do it, you can't go wrong with offshore IT |
| 16:02.13 | levi | He was from Argentina, too. |
| 16:03.10 | elg | ah, well the only ocean separating you is the panama canal then. even better! |
| 16:03.58 | beandog | nothing wrong with Argentina! |
| 16:04.02 | beandog | che hombre |
| 16:05.38 | elg | yeah right jsmith |
| 16:05.38 | elg | we know you're on the way to the mechanic's with a tire iron |
| 16:05.38 | elg | that should be jsmith-rampage |
| 16:05.38 | levi | Some idiot in a gigantic truck just about drove through me yesterday when traffic came to a near stop and he didn't. |
| 16:06.43 | levi | I was in my Miata and he was in a lifted truck, so if he hadn't swerved away, he likely would have killed me. |
| 16:07.12 | beandog | you have a Miata? |
| 16:07.14 | elg | they're out to get us |
| 16:07.16 | graphyx | levi you like your miata? |
| 16:07.17 | levi | I am not a fan of trucks with big lifts being on the freeway. |
| 16:07.19 | graphyx | I have a capri |
| 16:07.24 | levi | graphyx: Yeah, I love it. |
| 16:07.47 | beandog | well, actually I want an Eclipse :D |
| 16:07.49 | graphyx | I really like my capri |
| 16:07.53 | levi | I put a turbocharger in it, so it is both fast and nimble now. :) |
| 16:07.54 | graphyx | its the turbo model |
| 16:08.08 | graphyx | but the turbo doesn't push much |
| 16:08.27 | graphyx | I could tweak it a bit but don't have the time/ experience. |
| 16:08.33 | levi | Factory-installed turbos tend to be pretty conservative. |
| 16:09.50 | levi | It does take a lot of time and money to tweak a turbo car. The parts are custom and expensive, and you have to do a lot of work with old, stuck bolts to install them. |
| 16:10.02 | levi | It's kind of fun, though. At least the result is rewarding. |
| 16:10.20 | *** join/#utah sontek (n=sontek@208-47-173-164.dia.static.qwest.net) |
| 16:10.22 | lukfugl | I've always had a fascination with miata's, but I'm afraid that despite liking the car, I wouldn't fit in it |
| 16:10.37 | levi | Mine does about 10 PSI of boost. |
| 16:10.41 | levi | lukfugl: How tall are you? |
| 16:10.49 | lukfugl | 6'2"-ish |
| 16:11.12 | lukfugl | I've ridden in a friends, and was a bit cramped. that was several model years old, though, are the new ones bigger? |
| 16:11.18 | levi | My dad is around that height, and he fits in his, albeit just barely. |
| 16:11.32 | levi | The brand new model is a complete redesign and is a little bit bigger in the cabin. |
| 16:11.55 | levi | The original model is slightly more spacious than the one that started in 99. |
| 16:12.43 | graphyx | levi: mine will only push about 6 for some reason |
| 16:12.47 | elg | he means 6′2″, of course |
| 16:12.59 | graphyx | the gauge goes to 15 with a redline of 10 |
| 16:13.29 | lukfugl | yes, thank you elg |
| 16:13.35 | levi | graphyx: It may have a regulator based on absolute pressure and a gauge based on relative pressure. |
| 16:13.53 | levi | Or vice versa. |
| 16:14.11 | graphyx | perhaps |
| 16:14.22 | levi | Have you driven it at sea level? |
| 16:14.39 | graphyx | I've got a gear head buddy here at work that could help me if I had time |
| 16:14.47 | graphyx | I live at about 1000' |
| 16:14.54 | graphyx | in Arkansas |
| 16:14.59 | sjansen | "I drive a rolling pancake. I don't think people should be allowed to drive rolling pins on the interstate." |
| 16:15.16 | levi | Ahh, okay. Altitude probably isn't what's killing you, then. |
| 16:16.15 | levi | sjansen: I don't think people should be allowed to drive vehicles whose bumpers are above the tail end of my car on the interstate. :P |
| 16:21.13 | graphyx | I think that there is a law about that already |
| 16:21.34 | graphyx | that the bumper can't be above a certain height already |
| 16:23.52 | findlay | OK, I have a strange problem |
| 16:24.03 | levi | Anyway, Miatas are fun, and pretty reliable to boot. You can get an old used one for $5k or so and there is a wealth of aftermarket support and a large, friendly online community. |
| 16:24.23 | findlay | I type whoami on one of my servers and it says 'Administrator' |
| 16:24.24 | levi | There are also local car clubs, if you like that sort of thing. |
| 16:24.35 | findlay | the problem is I can't find Administrator in /etc/passwd |
| 16:24.59 | findlay | how did windows take over my linux server? |
| 16:25.52 | findlay | and it's screwing up my cron jobs |
| 16:26.27 | findlay | weird |
| 16:26.50 | findlay | if I do `su -l root` it says Administrator@server |
| 16:27.35 | lukfugl | findlay's server got pwned by Bill |
| 16:27.50 | findlay | no kidding |
| 16:28.17 | findlay | but how did this happen |
| 16:28.17 | rsimpkins | findlay: passwd probably just got munged a bit. |
| 16:28.18 | beandog | heh |
| 16:28.31 | findlay | there's no Administrator either in /etc/passwd or /etc/shadow |
| 16:28.44 | rsimpkins | findlay: Probably a stray process changed the wrong field in passwd - meant to change the Full name, but changed the username instaead. |
| 16:29.12 | findlay | how do I change it back? |
| 16:29.20 | rsimpkins | findlay: I wonder if someone messed with the prompt then. |
| 16:29.31 | findlay | but whoami says Administrator |
| 16:29.44 | findlay | when I specifically logged |
| 16:29.46 | findlay | in as root |
| 16:29.46 | rsimpkins | findlay: You aren't using CAS are you? |
| 16:29.53 | findlay | what's CAS? |
| 16:30.08 | rsimpkins | central auth |
| 16:30.15 | rsimpkins | ldap, etc |
| 16:30.23 | tensai | findlay: grep passwd /etc/nsswitch.conf |
| 16:30.26 | findlay | not for root |
| 16:30.47 | findlay | passwd: files ldap |
| 16:31.02 | rsimpkins | findlay: Probably have some issue with passwd/ldap |
| 16:31.03 | tensai | there's probably a user in ldap with uid 0 named Administrator |
| 16:31.08 | findlay | hm |
| 16:31.36 | rsimpkins | tensai: Dang we are good. ;) |
| 16:31.38 | findlay | don't people realize that Administrator is just second best? |
| 16:32.10 | rsimpkins | findlay: I'm not sure how your cron jobs would be affected though. |
| 16:32.40 | rsimpkins | findlay: Did /etc/passwd get corrupted or changed in some way? |
| 16:33.13 | findlay | I don't think so |
| 16:33.57 | *** join/#utah bonez39 (n=bonez@c-71-195-250-0.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 16:34.01 | findlay | how do I rid this Administrator abomination from this machine? |
| 16:35.39 | tensai | set pam_min_uid in /etc/libnss-ldap.conf |
| 16:36.03 | tensai | and restart nscd if you are using it |
| 16:36.11 | tensai | probably set pam_min_uid in /etc/pam_ldap.conf too |
| 16:36.39 | findlay | I don't have either of those conf file |
| 16:36.40 | findlay | s |
| 16:36.53 | tensai | well, add them. pam_min_uid 500 |
| 16:37.31 | tensai | unless you have system accounts in ldap (a bad idea, imho). in which case, pam_min_uid 1 |
| 16:37.38 | findlay | 500 divides priviliged uses from system users? |
| 16:37.56 | findlay | s/system/normal/ |
| 16:38.00 | tensai | 500 is where redhat starts normal user accounts. debian uses 1000. |
| 16:38.12 | tensai | generally system accounts are below 100 |
| 16:38.13 | findlay | so there's no certain standard |
| 16:38.16 | findlay | ah |
| 16:38.42 | tensai | not sure if lsb addresses that or not |
| 16:46.05 | findlay | tensai: I created those files like you said and even added pam_min_uid 500 to /etc/ldap.conf but there's no change |
| 16:46.55 | tensai | findlay: did you start a new login? nss is only queried once. |
| 16:46.56 | scottjad | I'm trying to add an SPF record to my cheap godaddy DNS server, and Google says to add "v=spf1 include:aspmx.googlemail.com ~all" but the DNS is asking for TXT Name and I'm guessing that's the TXT Value. anyone know? |
| 16:48.39 | findlay | tensai: yes |
| 16:49.21 | tensai | scottjad: yes, that's correct |
| 16:49.50 | tensai | scottjad: hang on, txt name? |
| 16:50.10 | tensai | zmonkey.org. 1800 IN TXT "v=spf1 a mx ip4:199.104.81.0/24" |
| 16:50.13 | findlay | stupid windows |
| 16:51.29 | tensai | findlay: ldapsearch -h ldapserver -b ou=base,dc=example,dc=com uid=0 |
| 16:51.46 | scottjad | maybe TXT Name is domain name |
| 16:52.07 | tensai | scottjad: that's what I'm guessing |
| 16:52.51 | findlay | tensai: can't contact ldap server?? |
| 16:52.56 | findlay | this is strange |
| 16:53.43 | findlay | the ldap server runs on the same machine as the one that's giving me trouble |
| 16:53.59 | *** join/#utah pmcnabb (n=peter@otherlab.cs.byu.edu) |
| 17:02.57 | levi | Man, this Don Hopkins guy created a lot of really cool stuff. It's too bad the only thing he's done that's currently in wide use is in The Sims: http://mailman.laptop.org/pipermail/sugar/2006-December/001022.html |
| 17:04.20 | levi | Oh, if only Sun had been into the whole 'giving stuff away' thing back when they developed NeWS. |
| 17:04.48 | bonez39 | anyone know how to set up reverse DNS .. with a comcast account....with dynamic IP? or is this not possible? |
| 17:06.53 | dataw0lf | not possible, unless comcast wants to do it for you. |
| 17:07.06 | dataw0lf | rDNS requests go to the owner of the ip block. |
| 17:12.10 | findlay | I have a <td style="text-wrap">text</td>, but why doesn't it wrap? |
| 17:12.51 | beandog | I think its word-wrap |
| 17:13.33 | findlay | doesn't work with word-wrap either |
| 17:14.48 | Lone_Wanderer | speaking of the Sims, is Spore (I think that's what it's called) out yet? |
| 17:16.50 | bonez39 | dataw0lf, so it's ante up or forget it...eh? |
| 17:17.05 | dataw0lf | indeed. |
| 17:17.44 | dataw0lf | for the blood of innocents! |
| 17:18.08 | Supaplex | take me take me! |
| 17:18.22 | bonez39 | dataw0lf, so many rules....restrictions.... |
| 17:18.26 | dataw0lf | yea, like there's any innocents in #utah. |
| 17:18.43 | Supaplex | they all repent too damn fast |
| 17:18.50 | Supaplex | or something like that ;) |
| 17:19.10 | dataw0lf | I was thinking more along the lines of everyone being a member of the PLUG mailing list... |
| 17:23.19 | findlay | I hate being IT manager, programmer, CSS designer, SA, and the guy everybody goes to when windows starts to become abusive |
| 17:23.43 | findlay | especially when I'm less than half competent in any of those areas :/ |
| 17:32.18 | beandog | where do you work at findlay ? |
| 17:32.59 | findlay | beandog: http://www.castlerockllc.net/ |
| 17:33.17 | beandog | ooh cool |
| 17:35.46 | levi | findlay: Sounds like you need a better-defined job. |
| 17:36.02 | findlay | levi: no kidding |
| 17:36.07 | brac | no kidding :) |
| 17:36.12 | findlay | thanks brac |
| 17:37.59 | sjansen | ~kid brac |
| 17:39.23 | goozbach | ~pineapple sjansen |
| 17:40.09 | sjansen | ~mango goozbach |
| 17:44.11 | findlay | ~orange goozbach |
| 17:44.46 | ^Migs^ | http://bash.org/?572509 |
| 17:44.47 | brac | [QDB: Quote #572509] |
| 17:46.02 | dilvie | hello |
| 17:50.39 | Supaplex | This website is currently under construction |
| 17:50.39 | Supaplex | and subject to change. |
| 17:50.39 | Supaplex | haha no way? |
| 17:50.39 | Supaplex | you mean it'll never be the same, someday? :) |
| 17:52.41 | findlay | basically |
| 17:53.06 | Supaplex | that's cool. that's like oh 80% of the internet. |
| 18:00.37 | *** join/#utah thesuperbigfrog (n=user@72.8.101.92) |
| 18:00.47 | Lone_Wanderer | I remember back in the day when every site I visited said "under construction" and had those cheesy men working pictures |
| 18:01.26 | beandog | man |
| 18:01.27 | beandog | those were great |
| 18:01.28 | beandog | :D |
| 18:01.32 | beandog | geocities ftw! |
| 18:01.46 | Lone_Wanderer | I am happy to say that I never had a geocities account. |
| 18:02.14 | beandog | I think I was SunsetStrip/2020/ or something |
| 18:03.23 | Lone_Wanderer | I learned mine in college, trying to learn how to edit a mud's home page |
| 18:03.32 | Lone_Wanderer | hoping that by doing so I could get in good with the imms |
| 18:03.38 | beandog | did it work? |
| 18:03.42 | Lone_Wanderer | no |
| 18:04.07 | graphyx | imm? |
| 18:04.07 | Lone_Wanderer | I was an annoying noob at the time. |
| 18:04.08 | beandog | an immortal |
| 18:04.08 | Lone_Wanderer | immortal on a mud |
| 18:04.14 | beandog | ah man |
| 18:04.17 | beandog | *those* were the days. |
| 18:04.19 | Lone_Wanderer | Young, idealistic, etc. |
| 18:04.24 | Lone_Wanderer | Now I'm old and jaded. |
| 18:04.32 | beandog | Im just old and idealistic |
| 18:04.32 | Lone_Wanderer | Much more imm-like. |
| 18:04.46 | beandog | and I like cartoons |
| 18:04.55 | beandog | Powerpuff Girls is coming to DVD :D |
| 18:05.13 | Lone_Wanderer | Those girls are awesome. |
| 18:05.21 | Lone_Wanderer | Mojo Jojo! |
| 18:05.33 | beandog | that show is so funny |
| 18:05.37 | beandog | how they just beat the crap out of everyone |
| 18:05.41 | Lone_Wanderer | yeah |
| 18:05.43 | brac | how they didn't want to get it |
| 18:05.44 | beandog | oh man |
| 18:05.46 | Lone_Wanderer | Great for kids. |
| 18:11.49 | *** join/#utah zerdith (n=zerdith@66-188-62-36.dhcp.bycy.mi.charter.com) |
| 18:24.02 | *** join/#utah jsmith (n=jsmith@000-193-159.area3.spcsdns.net) |
| 18:37.17 | findlay | so |
| 18:37.25 | findlay | how does everyone feel about zencart? |
| 18:46.21 | emcnabb | it's great, tastes like chicken |
| 18:48.36 | tene | Too wiggly. |
| 18:51.09 | dataw0lf | isn't it based on oscommerce? |
| 18:54.17 | goozbach | too much trans fat |
| 18:54.21 | goozbach | and it gives me gass |
| 18:54.25 | goozbach | s/gass/gas/ |
| 18:57.44 | *** join/#utah calvarez (n=Hhhhh@r82h185.res.gatech.edu) |
| 19:08.20 | Supaplex | poor findlay heh |
| 19:08.23 | findlay | so I'm supposed to check out this web hoster and their promo page is blank except a big, ugly flashbox |
| 19:08.39 | findlay | don't think I'd feel comfortable with them |
| 19:18.09 | jsmith | findlay: ZenCart and oscommerce both blow chunks... |
| 19:18.23 | *** join/#utah nick125_lappy (n=nick@atarack/staff/nick125) |
| 19:19.13 | Supaplex | findlay: humm https://www.securepaynet.net/gdshop/hosting/shared.asp?app%5Fhdr=&prog%5Fid=420187&ci=5652 |
| 19:23.26 | findlay | jsmith: yeah, I know |
| 19:24.38 | findlay | Supaplex: have you ever used them? |
| 19:27.05 | findlay | Supaplex: they don't support either perl, php, or python |
| 19:34.16 | findlay | "is it through the internet or firefox?" |
| 19:34.22 | findlay | hehehe |
| 19:39.21 | levi | So, PLT Scheme has this presentation system built in. I may use it to give some training on the stuff I've been working on. |
| 19:39.26 | lukfugl | heh (findlay) |
| 19:40.08 | sjansen | (next 'slide) |
| 19:40.39 | sjansen | (while (awake audience) (next 'slide)) |
| 19:40.51 | levi | sjansen: It gives you a nice declarative way to write your slides, plus you can embed code. |
| 19:41.10 | levi | sjansen: I think I'll use that feature (if I can) to automate demonstrations. |
| 19:41.46 | levi | Otherwise I might use some TeX-based solution, but that's not very interactive. |
| 19:42.36 | findlay | levi: what happens if the little Actors don't behave, or unionize? |
| 19:42.50 | sjansen | I know you mean a different type of interactive, but I hate singing and dancing slides. More thoughtful content, fewer pictures of cats. |
| 19:42.58 | findlay | then they run around changing your slide graphics into subversive messages |
| 19:43.21 | sjansen | At least I hope you mean a different type of interactive. |
| 19:43.48 | sjansen | (respond_with (demo 'stupid_complaint_about_parens)) |
| 19:44.23 | levi | Yes, the slides will be fairly straightforward, but I will be able to click on embedded links and have terminal windows with appropriate commands already executing pop up. |
| 19:44.50 | levi | So I don't have to think about popping up windows and typing the correct command in. |
| 19:47.59 | Supaplex | findlay: it looks like it's under Linux hosting http://help.securepaynet.net/topic_list.php?prog%5Fid=420187&topic%5Fid=58 |
| 19:48.55 | Jayce^ | sjansen, just trying to stir up some flames? |
| 19:49.40 | sjansen | No, I reached my threshold again and had to vent. |
| 19:49.51 | findlay | (flame 'sjansen) |
| 19:50.58 | tensai | we should start quoting in irc, just for sjansen's sake |
| 19:51.04 | tensai | sjansen: so what's your thresshold? |
| 19:51.06 | tensai | [13:49] <sjansen> No, I reached my threshold again and had to vent. |
| 19:51.55 | sjansen | [13:50] <tensai> Man, Linux is like _so_ hard. I'm going back to Windows. |
| 19:52.05 | sjansen | Hard to say. |
| 19:53.34 | sjansen | I'm starting to think the only answer is an arms race. Because Google is too arrogant to listen to feedback, other MUA's are going to have to implement a "hide useless Google cruft" mode. |
| 19:53.44 | findlay | heh |
| 19:54.22 | lukfugl | not that I doubt its existence |
| 19:54.34 | lukfugl | just that I use gmail primarily now, so I obviously don't see it :) |
| 19:55.55 | Jayce^ | crap, now I'm tempted to reply to plug with an LOL or a me 2! post.... |
| 19:56.43 | Jayce^ | lukfugl, it hides the fact that you will automatically top post (no trim), and in a thread the cruft buildup just keeps getting hidden |
| 19:57.50 | lukfugl | ah. I always make the effort to inline post anyways, so my mind glossed over that "feature" |
| 19:58.00 | sjansen | [13:56] <Jayce^> I don't like ponies. They scare me. Except for pink ponies, because pink is my favorite color. LOLZ :) :) :) :) :) :) |
| 19:58.24 | Jayce^ | sjansen, I was one of the people to add the "Pony" feature to freeside :) |
| 19:58.57 | sjansen | tensai: I think I'm enjoying the whole quoting in IRC thing. |
| 19:59.41 | Jayce^ | http://sisd.com/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/freeside/FS/FS/Pony.pm?rev=1.1&view=log |
| 19:59.43 | brac | [Repository - log - cvs: freeside/FS/FS/Pony.pm] |
| 20:00.07 | findlay | ~quote sjansen |
| 20:00.42 | *** join/#utah ^Migs^ (n=migs@205.122.50.69) |
| 20:01.28 | findlay | ~quote me |
| 20:01.35 | findlay | ~quote scox |
| 20:01.52 | findlay | ~quote novell |
| 20:02.02 | herlo | ~quote google |
| 20:02.06 | findlay | ~flood with quotes |
| 20:02.09 | ibot | ACTION blasts with quotes with a huge firehose then strangles with quotes with it |
| 20:02.43 | sjansen | ~quote GOOG |
| 20:02.52 | herlo | ~quote goog |
| 20:03.06 | sjansen | sheesh, if that ain't a bubble I don't know what is |
| 20:03.29 | tensai | ~quote novl |
| 20:03.42 | herlo | buy, buy, buy! |
| 20:03.56 | sjansen | Apparently if SCOX stays under $1 for 30 days, then dips under $1 even once during a 10 day period after that, it'll be unlisted. |
| 20:03.57 | findlay | ~evil |
| 20:03.58 | ibot | somebody said evil was something Microsoft bought from Satan, according to http://bbspot.com/News/2000/4/MS_Buys_Evil.html |
| 20:03.58 | tensai | wow. it's up 2 bucks since I left 4 years ago. |
| 20:04.01 | brac | [BBspot - Microsoft Purchases Evil From Satan] |
| 20:04.05 | tensai | guess I should have left sooner |
| 20:04.27 | Jayce^ | ~quote UNTD |
| 20:04.46 | herlo | Jayce^: very nice |
| 20:04.50 | tensai | Jayce^: ooh. what're you going to do with your 10 cents? |
| 20:04.51 | herlo | buy, buy, buy! |
| 20:05.00 | Jayce^ | hehe,recovering from that dip last week.. |
| 20:05.04 | brac | recovering from that land (it generates minor income from cattle grazing) |
| 20:06.49 | goozbach | sell sell sell |
| 20:08.14 | tensai | moo moo moo |
| 20:09.29 | findlay | ugh ugh ugh |
| 20:09.38 | findlay | the things I have to deal with |
| 20:11.28 | sjansen | ~mik tensai |
| 20:11.34 | sjansen | ~milk tensai |
| 20:11.35 | ibot | ACTION puts on some milking gloves. "All right, now, tensai, this won't hurt a bit...." |
| 20:11.51 | *** join/#utah TimRiker (n=timr@216.49.181.128) |
| 20:11.51 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 20:13.10 | tensai | yay! first signs of life in my garden. the orange tomatoes have sprouted. |
| 20:13.27 | Jayce^ | ~frost tensai's garden |
| 20:13.52 | jsmith | ~blackthumb |
| 20:13.57 | Jayce^ | I've got garlic, chives, onions, and mint that have started.. |
| 20:14.35 | tensai | Jayce^: ha! these are all inside. good luck frosting that. |
| 20:15.47 | emcnabb | my garden gives me fruits and vegetables year round |
| 20:15.56 | emcnabb | the only problem is waiting to check-out |
| 20:16.01 | brac | the only other one I play? |
| 20:16.01 | emcnabb | sometimes the lines get long |
| 20:16.25 | findlay | brac: no |
| 20:16.36 | goozbach | brac: yes |
| 20:17.05 | goozbach | brac: maybe |
| 20:17.14 | Jayce^ | goozbach, kinda |
| 20:20.21 | Jayce^ | now sjansen before the thread goes out, you need to see if you can get it going on SLLUG and UUG also... bonus points for dragging individual conversations across the lists.. |
| 20:20.42 | *** join/#utah nick125_ (n=nick@nick125.com) |
| 20:20.53 | nick125_ | anyone here know of a script to convert PSDs to PNGsd? |
| 20:20.57 | nick125_ | *PNGs |
| 20:21.38 | Jayce^ | convert handle psd? |
| 20:21.48 | Jayce^ | if not, gimp-scripting should |
| 20:21.53 | goozbach | -url 50 |
| 20:21.57 | goozbach | -urls 50 |
| 20:21.58 | brac | [2007/03/22 14:04:01] <ibot> http://bbspot.com/News/2000/4/MS_Buys_Evil.html |
| 20:21.58 | brac | [2007/03/22 13:59:41] <Jayce^> http://sisd.com/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/freeside/FS/FS/Pony.pm?rev=1.1&view=log |
| 20:21.58 | brac | [2007/03/22 13:48:01] <Supaplex> http://help.securepaynet.net/topic_list.php?prog%5Fid=420187&topic%5Fid=58 |
| 20:21.58 | brac | [2007/03/22 11:44:46] <^Migs^> http://bash.org/?572509 |
| 20:22.00 | brac | [2007/03/22 11:02:59] <levi> http://mailman.laptop.org/pipermail/sugar/2006-December/001022.html |
| 20:22.00 | brac | [2007/03/22 09:42:52] <^Migs^> http://content.hamptonroads.com/story.cfm?story=121545&ran=128269 |
| 20:22.00 | brac | [2007/03/22 09:41:19] <Jayce^> http://www.mpaintball.com/Paradox/ |
| 20:22.02 | brac | [2007/03/22 09:39:06] <dataw0lf> http://www.airguitarnation.com/new/ |
| 20:22.04 | brac | [2007/03/22 08:10:02] <elg> http://hans.fugal.net/bread.pdf |
| 20:22.06 | brac | [2007/03/22 08:01:11] <redbeard1> http://www.foodnetwork.com/food/recipes/recipe/0,1977,FOOD_9936_28891,00.html |
| 20:22.16 | mheath | ~kick brac for flooding |
| 20:22.17 | ibot | ACTION kicks brac for flooding |
| 20:22.17 | nick125_ | isn't convert in imagemagick? |
| 20:22.31 | mheath | ~execute |
| 20:22.32 | ibot | ACTION produces a guillotine. Who's first? |
| 20:22.48 | findlay | nick125_: I just wrote a 1 liner to do that |
| 20:22.53 | findlay | just a second |
| 20:22.58 | Jayce^ | nick125, yes |
| 20:23.20 | findlay | nick125_: find . -name '*.psd' | while read file ; do convert -background "#000F" "$file" -flatten "${file/.psd/.png}" && echo $file ; don |
| 20:23.25 | brac | find . -type f | xargs grep -n <identifier>' motif |
| 20:23.46 | mheath | Man. Missing your desired test score by 0.02 == sucks. |
| 20:24.19 | lukfugl | that's scary close to working, brac |
| 20:24.27 | mheath | 3.68. Wanted a 3.7. Now I'm on 10-0's vice Vols. |
| 20:25.02 | mheath | Functionally the same, but still sucks that I missed it. |
| 20:25.34 | nick125_ | I might write a python script to do it*shrugs* |
| 20:25.42 | nick125_ | I dislike bash :p |
| 20:26.42 | findlay | nick125_: I defy you to write a more elegantly written version in python :) |
| 20:26.49 | mheath | Hah. |
| 20:26.53 | mheath | I defy you? |
| 20:26.59 | mheath | I challenge you, perhaps? |
| 20:27.03 | findlay | mheath: no, I *defy* you! |
| 20:27.10 | mheath | ~defy findlay |
| 20:27.56 | mheath | Hmm, I guess that is correct usage. |
| 20:28.06 | findlay | and besides you'd have so much felicity learning all the bugs in pymagick |
| 20:28.08 | Jayce^ | ~humiliate mheath |
| 20:28.09 | ibot | ACTION forces mheath to sit front and center as he turns mheath's beloved automobile into a rusty-bucket pinto |
| 20:28.25 | findlay | heh |
| 20:28.57 | mheath | Nah, already got humiliated today. |
| 20:28.57 | mheath | Getting yelled at how I'm a risk to other peoples lives == not fun. |
| 20:29.12 | mheath | (That was because I missed a homework question. Don't look at me like i'm some horrible messed up person) |
| 20:29.50 | Jayce^ | we already have that opinion.. nothing to do with your homework status |
| 20:29.57 | findlay | I don't know about you, but that's how I was looking at mheath :) |
| 20:30.25 | mheath | Hmm. Roast Pork for dinner! |
| 20:30.58 | mheath | Jayce^, Your ~humiliate was not very effective |
| 20:31.04 | brac | Your ~humiliate was not eaten by me |
| 20:31.04 | mheath | As I lack a beloved automobile. |
| 20:31.06 | brac | As I read that ReiserFS is good enough but I'm still connected... |
| 20:31.13 | mheath | brac, SHUT UP. |
| 20:31.16 | findlay | hi brac |
| 20:31.17 | brac | findlay: 'sup? |
| 20:31.17 | Jayce^ | do you want an effective one? :) |
| 20:31.27 | findlay | how are you, brac? |
| 20:31.48 | findlay | ~give brac sup |
| 20:31.52 | ibot | ACTION gives sup to brac |
| 20:32.19 | mheath | Admit it. You all wish you had roast pork for dinner. |
| 20:32.49 | mheath | Sorry. Dinners the highlight of my evening |
| 20:33.08 | mheath | Trying to fill all my mandetory study hours tonight, so I have the weekend open (Myrtle BEACH!) |
| 20:33.24 | mheath | So i have to spread about 1.5 hours of work out to about 5 hours. |
| 20:33.29 | findlay | boy, I'm jealous |
| 20:33.43 | mheath | findlay, you better be. |
| 20:33.58 | findlay | a buncha scandalous girls |
| 20:34.05 | Jayce^ | see, most of us have 5 hours of work to do in 1.5 hours.. it's called the real world :) |
| 20:34.08 | mheath | tensai, hah, not many Navy nukes know how to spell very well, to be honest :P |
| 20:34.26 | mheath | Seriously. You get into the Nuke program by getting a satisfactory score on the ASVAB |
| 20:34.39 | mheath | But they also have a Nuke Program test for people who didn't score quite high enough on the ASVAB |
| 20:34.46 | tensai | then I wouldn't get in. I flunked the asvab on purpose. funnest test I ever took. |
| 20:34.59 | mheath | The main reason they don't score high enough: Bombed the spelling, reading comprehension, etc. sections. |
| 20:35.00 | tensai | kept the recruiters from ever calling me :) |
| 20:35.29 | mheath | tensai, Yeah, it's generic and simple |
| 20:35.37 | tensai | oh, I bombed everything. one section I marked all the answers "A". |
| 20:35.38 | mheath | But it does fill its purpose of weeding out people who are inappropriately stupid for a particular job. |
| 20:35.52 | Jayce^ | yeah, I realized what a mistake it was shortly after my scores were in, of course I was going the military route at the time so I thought it was a good idea.. |
| 20:36.08 | tensai | I was just annoyed that they forced everybody in school to take it |
| 20:36.21 | mheath | tensai, really? It was an option in my highschool, but not mandatory. |
| 20:36.44 | tensai | mheath: yup. got out of class for it I suppose, but still irked me |
| 20:36.47 | mheath | Ended up missing it, so I had to take it at MEPS. Would have rather taken it at school. |
| 20:37.23 | mheath | OK, seriously, time to eat. And then go spend way too long in that building |
| 20:37.32 | mheath | ~lart Rickover Center / NFAS |
| 20:37.55 | mheath | Wow, ibot, you just knocked a large building into a closet using a pillow |
| 20:38.26 | findlay | ~amaze mheath |
| 20:38.31 | Jayce^ | it's in the navy, doesn't that mean it's in the closet? |
| 20:38.32 | findlay | ~entertain mheath |
| 20:38.34 | ibot | ACTION grabs 5 random objects and begins to weave them through the air in a display of superior juggling skill for mheath's entertainment whilst whistling Einzug der Gladiatoren by Julius Fu?k |
| 20:38.35 | goozbach | I aced the ASVAB |
| 20:38.45 | goozbach | funnest test ever |
| 20:39.45 | tensai | Jayce^: we'll never know. don't ask, don't tell. |
| 20:42.13 | sjansen | I think I put the usual amount of effort into the ASVAB and did below average. |
| 20:42.43 | sontek | tensai: They changed it, now its just: Don't. |
| 20:42.43 | sontek | :D |
| 20:43.12 | sjansen | Which was funny because I'm very good at testing and usually score obnoxiously high. |
| 20:44.07 | sjansen | My consistent high test scores, more than anything else, convinced me that tests are a lousy way to judge a person's ability. |
| 20:44.08 | tensai | sjansen's motto: If you're going to do it, do it obnoxiously |
| 20:44.42 | Jayce^ | if you're going to be and ass, be a wise one.. |
| 20:45.11 | sjansen | I mean look at me? Could there be a better argument against standardized testing? |
| 20:52.17 | sontek | depends, did mheath score high? ;) |
| 21:06.04 | *** join/#utah Robdor (n=Robdor@208.187.198.179) |
| 21:19.33 | dataw0lf | the ASVAB is a joke. |
| 21:21.43 | *** join/#utah ^Migs^ (n=migs@205.122.50.69) |
| 21:21.49 | tene | So, I got a phone call from the NRCC today asking me to be an honorary committee member or some such and they wanted to give me some leadership award for being such a great local business leader. |
| 21:22.07 | ^Migs^ | what's an encoding/decoding algorithm that requires a seed or some value in the encoding/decoding? |
| 21:22.14 | Jayce^ | tene, wrong number? |
| 21:22.20 | ^Migs^ | like base64 with a password |
| 21:22.25 | tene | Jayce^: no, "Stephen Weeks" |
| 21:22.28 | Supaplex | sha1 |
| 21:22.35 | tene | After talking with the lady for a while, I finally found out that the business that I lead so well was "Loneliness" |
| 21:22.38 | tene | whois allalone.org |
| 21:25.33 | tene | I'm always entertained by what gets to me through my domain registration information. |
| 21:25.33 | findlay | ok, so why isn't there a subversion rpm in RHEL? |
| 21:25.54 | tene | Still trying to think of what to use for the next domain I register. |
| 21:25.57 | brac | Still trying to jump in and throws then in latin-1 they added a person |
| 21:27.37 | Supaplex | now that's a feature ;) |
| 21:28.04 | tene | findlay: which RHEL? |
| 21:29.30 | findlay | RHEL 4 (actually centos) |
| 21:32.39 | tene | Well, it's in Fedora... |
| 21:32.42 | tene | Dunno. |
| 21:39.52 | findlay | ~lart crap |
| 21:41.51 | findlay | ~nuke crap |
| 21:41.53 | ibot | ACTION prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at crap ... B☢☢M! |
| 21:42.57 | ^Migs^ | i hate when people look at or tinker with linux boxes and ask "there's no C drive?" |
| 21:43.21 | tene | ^Migs^: o.O |
| 21:43.23 | tene | eh? |
| 21:43.34 | findlay | heh |
| 21:43.44 | findlay | make them a dir called C: |
| 21:43.50 | findlay | and then they'll be happy |
| 21:43.52 | dataw0lf | http://qdb.zzq.org/?444 |
| 21:43.54 | brac | [zzq quote database] |
| 21:43.55 | ^Migs^ | haha yeah |
| 21:44.12 | findlay | you could even change the icon for them :) |
| 21:46.45 | rsimpkins | Does anyone know of a stock ticker applet for KDE? |
| 21:47.04 | findlay | there's that desktop applet thing |
| 21:47.08 | findlay | I'm sure it has one |
| 21:47.47 | rsimpkins | Which applet? |
| 21:48.40 | findlay | don't remember what it's called |
| 21:49.01 | dataw0lf | kdeaddons in debian / ubuntu |
| 21:50.23 | rsimpkins | dataw0lf: same here, thanks |
| 21:50.32 | dataw0lf | np |
| 21:50.58 | findlay | at least I was able to offer general, useless help |
| 21:51.11 | rsimpkins | They removed my fav stock ticker in FC6 because the mantainer is AWOL |
| 21:51.19 | ^Migs^ | the last thing I need is another qdb to browse |
| 21:52.28 | dataw0lf | yea, and that one is worse than bash.org, I'd advise against browsing it. |
| 21:53.51 | ^Migs^ | dumb kids |
| 21:54.03 | ^Migs^ | I wish they'd report security holes in the MORNING rather than late in the afternoon when I'm about to leave |
| 22:01.30 | dilvie | hmm |
| 22:09.39 | ^Migs^ | they also need to stop trying to HACK MY PORTAL when I'm already behind on the work |
| 22:09.59 | ^Migs^ | wtf, I'm tasting bile |
| 22:14.12 | *** join/#utah mrpull-x (i=xmjake@xmission.xmission.com) |
| 22:16.29 | mheath | I was going to spend 5 hours straight there, but I just can't do it :P |
| 22:24.19 | Lone_Wanderer | Quick, name a parody religion that's not the Church of the Subgenius or Pastafarianism. |
| 22:24.51 | tene | lastwednesdayism |
| 22:24.55 | tene | frisbeetarian |
| 22:25.05 | Lone_Wanderer | Frisbeetarian wins. |
| 22:25.21 | Lone_Wanderer | Although "The happy couple will be touched by His Noodly Appendage" does sound better on a wedding invitation methinks. |
| 22:25.23 | tene | lastwednesdayism is good for talking with YE creationists |
| 22:25.46 | lukfugl | YE? |
| 22:25.49 | Lone_Wanderer | YE? Oh, young earth. |
| 22:25.52 | lukfugl | ah |
| 22:27.35 | sjansen | lukfugl: RFC = "Ragefire Chasm" WFT?! |
| 22:27.42 | sjansen | s/WFT/WTF/ |
| 22:27.53 | lukfugl | sjansen |
| 22:27.56 | sjansen | ~educate lukfugl |
| 22:28.06 | ibot | ACTION teaches lukfugl the basics, including how to RTM. |
| 22:28.06 | lukfugl | d'oh! |
| 22:28.07 | lukfugl | I forgot |
| 22:28.09 | lukfugl | I meant to put both interpretations in, but slipped |
| 22:28.12 | Lone_Wanderer | Oh man, I love Frisbeetarianism |
| 22:28.27 | Lone_Wanderer | Oh, a WoW player saw my acronyms. |
| 22:28.33 | lukfugl | yes, I did :) |
| 22:29.05 | lukfugl | and now by that comment I know Lone_Wanderer = Daniel C. |
| 22:29.19 | Lone_Wanderer | Yes indeed, sir. |
| 22:29.51 | lukfugl | so what did you intend by CC, MC and GZ? |
| 22:31.05 | bonez39 | is it possible........to retrieve deleted email? I use mutt but I guess the reader is immaterial....where do messages go upon deletion? |
| 22:31.33 | lukfugl | hmm, POP or IMAP? |
| 22:31.52 | bonez39 | pop |
| 22:32.04 | bonez39 | lukfugl, I manage it locally..... |
| 22:32.09 | Lone_Wanderer | crowd control, molten core, gadgetzan |
| 22:32.36 | lukfugl | iirc, deleting in mutt means your local copy is gone for sure. the pop server *might* not have purged it yet, depending on how long ago you popped it, but the intent is that it would disappear off the server once you popped it (unless you have the "leave remote copy" option set) |
| 22:33.00 | bonez39 | no leaving it on the remote server |
| 22:33.01 | lukfugl | ah. never heard gadgetzan referred to as GZ, somehow forgot molten core and cc |
| 22:33.32 | lukfugl | then again, don't know if I've come across "cc" acronimized yet |
| 22:33.38 | lukfugl | know the phrase though :) |
| 22:35.47 | mheath | yah. |
| 22:40.35 | mrpull-x | w |
| 22:40.53 | mrpull-x | good afternoon |
| 22:49.08 | mheath | Good afternoon. |
| 22:49.16 | findlay | good night |
| 22:54.20 | *** join/#utah ^Migs^ (n=migs@205.122.50.69) |
| 23:04.57 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@216.31.27.110) |
| 23:12.55 | lukfugl | -lart elg |
| 23:13.41 | ^Migs^ | is 174 a good LSAT score? |
| 23:14.15 | dataw0lf | it's 120-180, isn't it? |
| 23:15.22 | Lone_Wanderer | I suspect he knows that it's a very good score and just wants to brag about what he got without actually appearing to brag :p |
| 23:21.07 | mheath | ~lart Watch |
| 23:23.32 | atoponce | wtf? http://rss.slashdot.org/~r/Slashdot/slashdot/~3/103694602/article.pl |
| 23:24.45 | elg | "translation: we (symantec) don't make any money when people run non-windows OSes" |
| 23:25.08 | elg | windows had 12 severe vulnerabilities, os x had 1, and linux had somehting less than 12 (I don't remember exactly) |
| 23:25.34 | elg | os x and linux had more non-severe vulnerabilities (maybe because they bundle useful software?) |
| 23:25.48 | mheath | I don't buy the "shortest average patch development time" |
| 23:25.53 | elg | linux was quicker to fix them, os x lagged |
| 23:25.55 | mheath | And the "fewest patches" doesn't mean crap |
| 23:26.02 | atoponce | honestly. i don't know why i read that garbage news site |
| 23:26.08 | atoponce | i blame it on unum |
| 23:26.08 | elg | me either |
| 23:26.19 | mheath | atoponce, It makes for good, controversial conversation. |
| 23:26.20 | atoponce | he's addicted, and got me reading it |
| 23:26.21 | elg | I blame it on goozbach that you read it |
| 23:26.32 | atoponce | ~blame mheath |
| 23:26.35 | ibot | ACTION blames mheath (and Canada) for all the evil in the world |
| 23:26.35 | beandog | I hate slashdot |
| 23:26.38 | mheath | Bah, I have watch tonight. 20-22 :( |
| 23:26.38 | beandog | my life improved when I stopped reading it on a regular basis |
| 23:26.54 | atoponce | it has turned pro-windows |
| 23:26.57 | atoponce | no question there |
| 23:26.57 | elg | 2 hours can't be all that bad |
| 23:27.01 | mheath | ~watch atoponce |
| 23:27.03 | ibot | ACTION gazes at atoponce carefully |
| 23:27.04 | beandog | well its run by trolls |
| 23:27.12 | atoponce | beandog: yeah. no argument there |
| 23:27.18 | beandog | OMZZZZOSOO1111!! SENSATIONALIZATION HEADLINE COMPLETELY MISLEADING |
| 23:28.01 | beandog | mmm, liferea |
| 23:28.05 | beandog | read boing boing |
| 23:28.08 | beandog | and techdirt |
| 23:28.13 | mheath | ~lart uniform inspections and watch |
| 23:28.16 | atoponce | i need some good feeds |
| 23:28.25 | atoponce | the ones i have i'm getting a little old of |
| 23:28.31 | beandog | planet larry :D |
| 23:28.34 | atoponce | maybe i should syndicate lessig |
| 23:28.39 | beandog | planet gnome is interesting |
| 23:28.43 | mheath | What other job will cause my weekend plants to be effected by failing to have shiny shoes? |
| 23:28.44 | beandog | he never posts anything |
| 23:28.45 | mheath | Heh. |
| 23:28.53 | atoponce | i have planet gnome. that's semi-decent |
| 23:28.54 | beandog | atoponce: thedailywtf |
| 23:28.55 | mheath | Anyway, really off to assume the freakin' watch.... |
| 23:28.59 | atoponce | planet mozilla too |
| 23:29.00 | elg | you have weekend plants? |
| 23:29.02 | mheath | beandog, it's not thedailywtf anymore. |
| 23:29.06 | beandog | kerneltrap |
| 23:29.07 | beandog | ! |
| 23:29.13 | atoponce | beandog: i did thedailwtf, it's just too much reading |
| 23:29.13 | beandog | gentoo universe :D |
| 23:29.18 | beandog | too much reading? |
| 23:29.20 | beandog | buh |
| 23:29.21 | atoponce | their articles are looooooooong |
| 23:29.22 | mheath | elg, Yes. Going to Myrtle Beach this weekend |
| 23:29.30 | mheath | elg, with about 5 friends |
| 23:29.32 | elg | is that where you pick up your plants? |
| 23:29.33 | beandog | http://commandline.org.uk/feed/ |
| 23:29.36 | beandog | command line warriors |
| 23:29.42 | elg | what happens to them when the weekend ends? |
| 23:29.44 | beandog | http://feeds.feedburner.com/TheLongTail |
| 23:29.50 | mheath | elg, ..... |
| 23:29.52 | tensai | I'm 545 days slashdot free |
| 23:29.53 | mheath | ~lart elg |
| 23:30.00 | beandog | http://adoptamicrobe.blogspot.com/feeds/posts/default |
| 23:30.01 | beandog | hee hee |
| 23:30.05 | mheath | My name is Michael, and I read slashdot. |
| 23:30.09 | mheath | (Hi, Michael!) |
| 23:30.10 | beandog | http://wilwheaton.typepad.com/wwdnbackup/atom.xml |
| 23:30.19 | atoponce | tensai: i used to never read it until just recently |
| 23:30.27 | beandog | http://art.gnome.org/backend.php |
| 23:30.27 | mheath | YOU ALL ARE DISTRACTING. When he asks why I showed up late for watch, I'll say "Blame #Utah" |
| 23:30.29 | atoponce | beandog: can't stand wil wheaton. cry baby |
| 23:30.31 | tensai | I gave it up cold turkey and I recommend it to everyone |
| 23:30.39 | mheath | OK, out the door. Be back in 2.5 hours. |
| 23:30.47 | beandog | http://www.techdirt.com/techdirt_rss.xml |
| 23:30.49 | beandog | ^^ the best |
| 23:30.58 | findlay | tensai: I hardly ever look past my feeds these days |
| 23:31.05 | beandog | thats the best ones I have |
| 23:31.05 | findlay | it concentrates my news time |
| 23:31.06 | atoponce | beandog: ok ok. send me an email of all your feeds, and i'll parse through them |
| 23:31.12 | beandog | someone hit me if youve got good ones |
| 23:31.12 | beandog | :D |
| 23:31.40 | findlay | I hardly have the patience to read through some of the techdirt summaries |
| 23:31.42 | atoponce | beandog: better yet, post it to your blog, and tag someone to do the same |
| 23:31.53 | beandog | http://rafb.net/p/Owcg9259.html |
| 23:31.57 | beandog | how about I do that instead |
| 23:31.58 | atoponce | let's get a tag game going on |
| 23:31.58 | beandog | :) |
| 23:32.06 | beandog | ooh that would be fun |
| 23:32.06 | beandog | :D |
| 23:32.17 | elg | passionate users is a decent read, though I skim it sometimes |
| 23:32.40 | atoponce | ok. back to work. just wanted to say what junk slashdot was turning into |
| 23:32.51 | beandog | atoponce: its been crappy for .. well, years. |
| 23:32.52 | elg | lambda the ultimate makes me feel important but I almost never read it, just skim/skip tit |
| 23:32.59 | elg | lwn |
| 23:33.02 | beandog | Im surprised it could get worse |
| 23:33.15 | beandog | notice the extreme absence of digg in my feeds. |
| 23:33.16 | beandog | digg-- |
| 23:33.28 | findlay | http://arxiv.org/help/rss |
| 23:33.34 | findlay | heh, check out those feeds |
| 23:34.06 | findlay | more specifically, try to get through them in an hour :-) |
| 23:35.30 | tene | http://arstechnica.com/journals/thumbs.ars/2007/03/22/thompson-responds-to-the-take-two-suit-with-one-of-his-own |
| 23:35.39 | beandog | oh yah |
| 23:35.41 | beandog | ars++ |
| 23:36.08 | beandog | oh |
| 23:36.10 | beandog | for some ... uh |
| 23:36.12 | beandog | interesting news |
| 23:36.15 | beandog | one second. |
| 23:36.26 | beandog | http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/ |
| 23:36.28 | brac | [Coding Horror] |
| 23:36.32 | beandog | I better not say anything about that one |
| 23:36.43 | beandog | other than hes a total .NET fanboy |
| 23:37.10 | beandog | gives me headaches |
| 23:37.57 | findlay | ~fanboy .nEt |
| 23:38.07 | findlay | ~fanboy |
| 23:38.50 | atoponce | findlay: what am i looking at at arxiv.org? |
| 23:38.56 | brac | what am i broken? :P |
| 23:39.08 | beandog | sewiously |
| 23:39.18 | findlay | atoponce: anything |
| 23:39.24 | findlay | it's heavy duty stuff |
| 23:39.27 | findlay | raw science |
| 23:39.50 | findlay | uncut, unfiltered science |
| 23:40.37 | atoponce | ahh. i see |
| 23:40.42 | beandog | "Why Google Wanted a YouTube Lawsuit" |
| 23:40.44 | beandog | what a bunch of trolls. |
| 23:40.54 | atoponce | looking at your link, i was confused by the help page |
| 23:41.49 | findlay | beandog: Olog-hai trolls? : |
| 23:41.51 | findlay | ) |
| 23:42.23 | beandog | huh? |
| 23:42.41 | beandog | ok |
| 23:42.48 | beandog | Ive been spying in #ubuntu all day |
| 23:42.52 | beandog | its not very exciting. |
| 23:43.27 | atoponce | beandog: what were you looking for? |
| 23:43.35 | beandog | I dunno |
| 23:43.39 | beandog | at least a few explosions |
| 23:43.44 | atoponce | it *is* a support channel, after all... |
| 23:45.39 | tene | Okay, question... |
| 23:45.54 | atoponce | answer |
| 23:46.12 | tene | Is there any difference at all between ubuntu, kubuntu, xubuntu, etcbuntu beyond the default choices in the install? |
| 23:46.16 | jsmith | beandog: Hang out in #asterisk instead ;-) |
| 23:46.22 | atoponce | tene: yes |
| 23:46.25 | tene | What's the difference between installing ubuntu, removing gnome, and installing KDE? |
| 23:46.39 | tene | erm... between that and installing kubuntu? |
| 23:46.55 | beandog | about two steps, Id say. |
| 23:47.12 | beandog | ~rimshot |
| 23:47.13 | ibot | ch-ch-chhh |
| 23:47.14 | findlay | I'd say about 20 min |
| 23:47.17 | lukfugl | heh |
| 23:47.22 | atoponce | ok. well, under the hood, between u/k/x/buntu, nothing. just the meta packages for the appropriate dm and wm, but for edubuntu... |
| 23:47.57 | tene | How exactly is that "under the hood"? |
| 23:48.04 | atoponce | edubuntu deploys a server/client enviornment where the teacher can view/control what the students are doing at their computers |
| 23:48.15 | dataw0lf | none of the Ubuntu offshoots have an serious problems between transferring from one to the other. |
| 23:48.20 | dataw0lf | any* |
| 23:48.27 | tene | atoponce: can you install that environment and setup in ubuntu? |
| 23:48.29 | atoponce | and, the server install, obviously, deploys a lamp stack |
| 23:48.36 | tene | are those packages in the normal ubuntu repository? |
| 23:48.49 | atoponce | tene: yes. i believe you can |
| 23:49.06 | tene | So, again, it's just the default settings in the installer? |
| 23:49.10 | atoponce | yes. they would be in main and restricted |
| 23:49.10 | beandog | mm |
| 23:49.17 | beandog | thank heavens for girl scout cookies |
| 23:49.38 | atoponce | tene: i'm a bit confused what you mean by 'default settings' and 'installer' |
| 23:50.20 | tene | atoponce: I could change my system from an ubuntu system to a kubuntu system by removing and adding a few packages, yes? |
| 23:50.22 | atoponce | lemme see if i can clarify |
| 23:50.26 | jsmith | beandog: I know... I've got 11 boxes sitting on the porch |
| 23:51.17 | atoponce | tene: yes. if you were running 'ubuntu' and wanted 'kubuntu' you would 'aptitude install kubuntu-desktop', but to remove ubuntu, that could prove to be difficlut, depending on how you installed it |
| 23:52.32 | tene | atoponce: so what would *you* say is the difference between Ubuntu and Kubuntu? |
| 23:52.44 | atoponce | if 'ubuntu' was installed from a desktop or alternate cd, or via apt-get in the server install, you would have to know and remove all the package names manually |
| 23:52.52 | tene | Also, why does "ubuntu running KDE" have its own name? |
| 23:53.04 | atoponce | tene: just the difference between kde and gnome |
| 23:53.10 | tene | I mean, with Fedora, for example, I can choose "Install KDE, don't install Gnome" in the installer. |
| 23:53.23 | tene | Does that mean that if I run a fedora system with KDE I should call it "Kedora"? |
| 23:53.30 | atoponce | tene: because, ubuntu was gnome-only, and an unofficial team started it, and canonical took it in. same with xubuntu |
| 23:53.44 | atoponce | tene: now you're just being silly |
| 23:54.17 | tene | From where I am, the different distro names just for a different DE installed is pretty silly. |
| 23:54.20 | beandog | I think the question is valid though -- why have 3 different distributions instead of an option to select your WM? |
| 23:54.28 | beandog | I was gonna ask the same thing |
| 23:54.30 | dataw0lf | they aren't 'three different distributions' |
| 23:54.38 | beandog | well, three different product releases |
| 23:54.44 | beandog | with the only difference being the default WM |
| 23:54.55 | beandog | gentoo ftw! |
| 23:54.57 | beandog | :) |
| 23:54.59 | tene | atoponce: can you make choices about what packages to install in the installer in ubuntu? |
| 23:55.00 | dataw0lf | the Ubuntu community is silly, you just have to live with it |
| 23:55.02 | atoponce | tene: the best way to parallel what you are talking about with fedora is this: |
| 23:55.10 | tene | beandog: don't you mean "kentoo"? ;) |
| 23:55.15 | beandog | tene: shh |
| 23:55.20 | atoponce | tene: install the server iso, and then 'aptitude install _buntu-desktop' |
| 23:55.23 | beandog | Im using XFCE, so I guess its xentoo |
| 23:55.28 | dataw0lf | gentoo isn't dead yet? |
| 23:55.54 | tene | I'm using Enlightenment, so I guess I'm running Eedora |
| 23:55.57 | atoponce | tene: the reason they do what they do is to keep everything on one cd wich a pre-defined set of packages, rather than a 5-disk install like fedora |
| 23:56.07 | atoponce | s/wich/with/ |
| 23:56.13 | beandog | that's a good answer, and I figured it was something like that |
| 23:56.56 | beandog | or you could just install debian from a floppy |
| 23:56.59 | beandog | now *that* is cool. |
| 23:57.15 | atoponce | when your grand-ma-ma is deciding to use linux, she doesn't want to be plagued with heavy downloads, and an overly verbose installer. rather, she'll just want one cd, and install |
| 23:57.23 | atoponce | that's what we're striving for |
| 23:57.42 | dataw0lf | I'd love Ubuntu if it wasn't for the community. |
| 23:57.48 | atoponce | that's why it's broken out the way it is |
| 23:57.51 | tene | beandog: I install fedora from my bootloader usually. |
| 23:57.54 | dataw0lf | It's like being amongst a bunch of fifth graders all trying to be polite |
| 23:58.03 | atoponce | dataw0lf: that's the #1 reason i stick with ubuntu. the community just rocks |
| 23:58.07 | beandog | still is in a lot of ways |
| 23:58.16 | beandog | Lets dump you in an FTP directory! good luck! whee!!! |
| 23:58.22 | dataw0lf | atoponce: I'm the exact opposite, it's why I resigned as a dev and leader |
| 23:58.30 | dataw0lf | I wanted to claw my ears off. |
| 23:58.40 | beandog | tene: thats disgusting |
| 23:58.43 | atoponce | dataw0lf: wanted more grit, eh? |
| 23:58.48 | beandog | ~jealous tene |
| 23:59.26 | tene | beandog: that way I don't have to burn a CD |
| 23:59.26 | dataw0lf | atoponce: I just couldn't stand to be told that I had to hand hold everyone through each step, instead of supplying several links and letting them do research themselves. |
| 23:59.26 | beandog | not listening la la la |
| 23:59.26 | beandog | :) |
| 23:59.26 | beandog | tene: have you ever done it off a USB stick? I havent managed that one yet. |
| 23:59.33 | tene | beandog: I haven't. |
| 23:59.34 | dataw0lf | have you ever installed ONTO a usb stick? |
| 23:59.39 | beandog | not yet |
| 23:59.49 | beandog | I tried, and borked my stick. |