| 00:14.38 | *** part/#utah mgeary (n=mgeary@166.70.44.49) |
| 00:14.58 | *** join/#utah jNb3k (n=jNb3k@c-24-10-178-17.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 00:26.10 | *** join/#utah herlo-lap (n=herlo@dhcp64-134-224-103.fpscc.den.wayport.net) |
| 00:32.16 | findlay | is there a NUPM meeting tonight? |
| 00:37.05 | mheath | ~praise Subway |
| 00:37.07 | ibot | All hail Subway! |
| 00:40.32 | mheath | But, yah, my camera gets here tomorrow! |
| 00:40.34 | *** join/#utah neybar (n=jalance@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 00:43.34 | *** join/#utah harleypig (n=harleypi@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 00:43.40 | beandog | http://recordingindustryvspeople.blogspot.com/2007/03/riaa-sues-stroke-victim-in-michigan.html |
| 00:43.44 | beandog | now that pretty much tops it. |
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| 00:52.49 | redbeard2 | grr |
| 00:53.16 | redbeard2 | i'm trying to install an app from inside of gnome, and it's telling me that gtk isn't installed |
| 00:54.22 | findlay | tell it gtk is overrated |
| 00:57.54 | atoponce | findlay: why do you use unix|linux? |
| 00:58.34 | rsimpkins | atoponce: Chicks dig it. |
| 00:59.42 | atoponce | rsimpkins: no argument there. my wife likes it. :) |
| 00:59.50 | brac | no argument there. my shell now has a copy anywhere. |
| 01:06.17 | rsimpkins | atoponce: Ease of management. i.e. 8000 servers takes 5 or 6 guys to run. |
| 01:06.46 | mheath | rsimpkins, 8000 properly configured servers* |
| 01:06.59 | rsimpkins | mheath: Yes. |
| 01:07.08 | rsimpkins | mheath: 8000 production servers. |
| 01:07.35 | mheath | ~lart military medical |
| 01:08.06 | atoponce | rsimpkins: nice |
| 01:09.06 | mheath | I use GNU/Linux because it is, in many situations, the cheapest, and best solution. |
| 01:09.25 | mheath | It is rediculously powerful, but at the same time makes rediculously complicated things simple. |
| 01:10.27 | atoponce | i came to *nix, because it's superiority to others, and two tools: ssh and grep |
| 01:11.25 | mheath | Heh, how I found *nix is really stupid / embarassing. |
| 01:12.16 | mheath | I was probably 10 at the time. And I decided that I wanted to be a "hacker". And all the "good" "hacking" websites toold me that any good hacker has a "UNIX shell account". |
| 01:12.26 | atoponce | lol |
| 01:12.35 | QBFreak | atoponce: I like the cost of and power of Linux |
| 01:12.37 | atoponce | let me guess, "the guide to happy hacking" |
| 01:12.44 | QBFreak | and the ranges of hardware it will run on |
| 01:12.46 | mheath | haha, I don't know, but it was that kind of thing |
| 01:12.56 | mheath | I didn't know a thing about UNIX/Linux. Never heard of it. |
| 01:13.10 | mheath | But I started playing with a free UNIX shell account and found it really interesting. |
| 01:13.23 | atoponce | mheath: wait. "the guide to happy harmless hacking". something like that |
| 01:13.45 | mheath | atoponce, No, I was looking at (what a 10 year old considers to be) "real" hacking guides :P |
| 01:14.04 | mheath | whichly largely consists of insanley old or biased USENET posts :P |
| 01:14.26 | atoponce | i had my first shell account at 12, but i thought it was weird, and didn't really get into it |
| 01:14.55 | atoponce | it wasn't until after i returned home from my mission, and looked into red hat that i thought "this looks familiar" |
| 01:15.10 | atoponce | (the terminal, that is) |
| 01:15.21 | mheath | To be honest, the biggest thing that stood out to me about my first UNIX shell: the free compiler |
| 01:15.45 | mheath | I didn't know much about programming, but I had played around with our (even then slightly dated) copy of Visual Basic 3.0 |
| 01:15.59 | mheath | I was accutely aware that this product cost money |
| 01:16.06 | mheath | And the updated versions cost even more money |
| 01:16.55 | mheath | I can remember to this day finding it really surprising that this other "shell" (I don't think I even though of it as another operating system residing on another machine) offered a *free*, full featured compiler and development tools. |
| 01:20.07 | mheath | Here I was 10 years old. Completely unaware of the economics of software development and sales........It was a really simple situation to me: One product charged a LOT of money for their product, and I couldn't see why, whereas the same thing (if not better) was available for _free_ |
| 01:20.24 | mheath | atoponce, I think you actually got me on topic. |
| 01:20.52 | mheath | Thats probably been the most continuous on-topic statements I've ever said in this channel. :P |
| 01:22.01 | mheath | I tried slackware for the first time a few years later. That was my first distro. |
| 01:22.39 | mheath | I wasn't that impressed. We had AOL dialup at the time, so I didn't have internet access from Linux |
| 01:22.40 | atoponce | same |
| 01:22.46 | atoponce | i tried putting it on my laptop |
| 01:22.49 | atoponce | boy was that a pain |
| 01:22.57 | atoponce | about 5 years ago, too |
| 01:23.13 | mheath | And slackware is so....minimal.....that it really doesn't wow you away without an internet connection. |
| 01:23.26 | mheath | Especially since I was completely new to it |
| 01:23.43 | mheath | Couldn't use the internet to look at documentation, get help, download additional programs, etc. without rebooting. |
| 01:24.05 | atoponce | slack -> redhat -> mandrake -> suse -> ubuntu |
| 01:24.20 | atoponce | no need to move past that, iyam |
| 01:24.53 | mheath | slack -> redhat (briefly) -> gentoo -> slack -> gentoo -> slack -> ubuntu |
| 01:25.14 | mheath | Now I'm counted as running Fedora, too, I guess. My personal server runs Fedora. |
| 01:25.16 | atoponce | i have played with lfs, gentoo, arch and dsl*, and i work in debian |
| 01:25.35 | mheath | Yeah. I've played with LFS, and Debian |
| 01:25.41 | atoponce | arch is cool |
| 01:25.56 | atoponce | if it weren't for the debian way of things, and ubuntu, i'd be using that distro |
| 01:26.01 | mheath | Though mainly Debian GNU (Hurd/GNU Mach) |
| 01:26.21 | mheath | atoponce, I used to tinker a lot, and love the complex, fun to play with, fun to tweak to exactly what you want distros... |
| 01:26.23 | atoponce | i would like to play with debian kfreebsd |
| 01:26.26 | mheath | I really don't have as much time anymoer |
| 01:26.33 | atoponce | yeah |
| 01:26.50 | mheath | Thats what I love about ubuntu - it is a perfect, out-of-the-box, everything-works, everything integrates with everything else desktop solution. |
| 01:27.13 | mheath | If any distro poses any serious competition to Windows, I would have to say Ubuntu. |
| 01:27.15 | atoponce | there is no doubt in my mind that ubuntu and suse will dethrone redmond |
| 01:27.44 | mheath | I'm long maintained that the main factor taht would displease the average windows user attempting to use Linux is lack of inter-program integration, and lack of desktop unity. |
| 01:27.44 | atoponce | ubuntu, because of the backend, and suse, because of the frontend |
| 01:28.15 | tene | mheath: I don't really see much inter-program interaction or desktop unity on Windows. |
| 01:28.16 | mheath | And Ubuntu provides both of those far better than any other distro, in my opinion |
| 01:28.25 | atoponce | if only suse would leave dependancy hell with rpm, and get a decent package manager |
| 01:28.31 | mheath | tene, let me rephrase/explain. |
| 01:29.00 | tene | I mean, I hear that, then I look at the nearest windows desktop and see five different interface styles in the programs that are running, and none of them interact with each other. |
| 01:29.22 | mheath | Windows looks and feels the same way. All of the Windows machines, any decently familiar person knows how to access the control panel. Manipulate files. Run their favorite programs. |
| 01:29.39 | mheath | Their programs all _feel_ the same. They may have inconsistent interfaces, but they feel similar to each other. |
| 01:29.47 | tene | howso? |
| 01:29.59 | tene | Howso in any way beyond "you use the mouse and click buttons"? |
| 01:30.10 | mheath | tene, interface similarities. |
| 01:30.21 | atoponce | tene: they have a 'tools' menu. |
| 01:30.33 | mheath | And the fact that so many of the commonly used programs are so familiar to the majority of users anyway. |
| 01:30.56 | brailsmt_ | anyone experienced significant instability with samba while doing heavy i/o on a mounted smbfs partition? |
| 01:30.57 | mheath | The biggest point is, a Windows user feels comfortable on any windows system. |
| 01:32.09 | mheath | Using your computer, using their friends computer, using the computer at the internet cafe: they know how to get things done. To run the programs they always run. |
| 01:32.10 | mheath | Furthermore, they're guaranteed that said programs will run on their friends computer, because their running on their own computer running the same operating system. |
| 01:32.10 | mheath | Now, take Linux. |
| 01:32.10 | mheath | I can set up a user with a Linux system. Let's say Redhat. |
| 01:32.10 | brailsmt_ | and never look back |
| 01:32.19 | mheath | If the user is completely new to Linux, I can probably make them happy with Redhat. |
| 01:32.42 | mheath | Find programs they like. Configure the system to their tastes. They user might even learn a bit about how to administer and take care of their own system. |
| 01:33.26 | atoponce | mheath: but see, your own argument presents the user with a nightmare |
| 01:33.32 | mheath | But what happens when that user tries to explain to his friend how to install that cool new game he's playing called BzFlag, when his friend is running Windows? Or his friend is running SuSE? |
| 01:33.53 | mheath | What happens when that user tries to do file and printer sharing with his Windows friend? |
| 01:34.02 | atoponce | everything works the same. ok. great. what tools/options do you have when something is not working the same? even worse, when i breaks? |
| 01:34.15 | brailsmt_ | well... if this guy is like me, when he mentions bzflag, his freinds will look at him with pity and go back to halo |
| 01:34.29 | mheath | People are displeased because no matter how nice the day-to-day experience of Linux is once you alreadfy have the programs setup and running, there are countless things that "just worked" in Windows that are far, far from that way in Linux. |
| 01:34.41 | atoponce | mheath: how do you debug software in windows? it's a pain. there just isn't any easy way to do it |
| 01:34.54 | mheath | atoponce, I am not praising Windows. |
| 01:35.06 | atoponce | i'm not saying you are. |
| 01:35.13 | mheath | I am mentioning some things I think Linux would have to fix/offer to ever be viable competition to the Windows desktop. |
| 01:36.05 | mheath | The retail sales market is destroyed by Linux too |
| 01:36.16 | atoponce | i agree that things need to be better streamlined, but i think they are at a much better state than you think |
| 01:36.39 | mheath | Right now, a user can go down to Circuit City, and they are guaranteed that the shiny new computer accessory or piece of equipment will work with their Windows PC |
| 01:36.56 | atoponce | you're pretty much guaranteed that now in linux |
| 01:37.07 | mheath | while hardware compatability (and software compatability, thanks to things like Wine) is improving greatly, the same can not be said for Linux. |
| 01:37.18 | atoponce | i disagree |
| 01:37.36 | atoponce | i think you have better chances of getting them to work in linux than windows |
| 01:38.05 | brailsmt_ | atoponce: that's silly |
| 01:38.10 | atoponce | brailsmt_: why? |
| 01:38.11 | mheath | Oh, thats just windows-sucks-linux-is-so-much-better propaganda. |
| 01:38.17 | atoponce | mheath: no it's not |
| 01:38.49 | mheath | Oh, everything works and runs better in Linux! Therefore hardware compability HAS to be better! Even than with the operating system all this hardware was meant for! |
| 01:38.59 | brailsmt_ | atoponce: because i have been to the store, and i have seen what is actually on sale and the fact it all says windows is supported |
| 01:39.16 | mheath | atoponce, what about software? |
| 01:39.24 | atoponce | mheath: what about software? |
| 01:39.31 | brailsmt_ | atoponce: and rarely do i see the same thing for linux |
| 01:39.39 | brailsmt_ | atoponce: what about software? |
| 01:39.58 | mheath | Can I go down to the store, buy my copy of TurboTax (doing taxes late this year), pop it into my CD drive and have the program intaller run/auto start? |
| 01:40.03 | atoponce | brailsmt_: ok. but have you installed it in linux? i think you would find it's just as pain free |
| 01:40.09 | mheath | I mean, after all, thats what it does on my friends PC! |
| 01:40.31 | brailsmt_ | atoponce: i am no linux newbie, and I have fought my fair share of hardware battles |
| 01:40.41 | atoponce | mheath: can you go to the apple store, purchase ilife, and autorun it in your pc? |
| 01:40.53 | atoponce | brailsmt_: as have i... back in the day |
| 01:40.58 | mheath | apple is a tiny niche too. you can't compare that |
| 01:40.59 | atoponce | brailsmt_: it's just not the case anymore |
| 01:41.02 | mheath | users don't THINK like that |
| 01:41.05 | brailsmt_ | atoponce: over the last 7 years i have been using linux, there have been few things other than a hard drive and memory that installed nice and neatly |
| 01:41.11 | mheath | And thats waht the majority of linux advocates fail to realize |
| 01:41.22 | mheath | The average user could care LESS about how their computer works under the hood. |
| 01:41.32 | mheath | Or whats compatablite with it or not |
| 01:41.32 | brailsmt_ | atoponce: whatever, once the rosiness wears off you will see the truth |
| 01:41.49 | brailsmt_ | atoponce: i'm not going to force you to think one way or the other... |
| 01:41.55 | atoponce | mheath: if your friend is running linux, regardless of how long he's been using it, he's not going to buy windows software for a linux bot |
| 01:41.58 | atoponce | *box |
| 01:42.03 | mheath | They just see this: This program worked perfectly on my friends computer (pop in the CD and off you go!) and it does not work at all on mine. |
| 01:42.05 | mheath | They do not care why |
| 01:42.16 | brailsmt_ | atoponce: nor am i going to argue, but you have see things the way they are, not the way they should be |
| 01:42.20 | mheath | They do not care that if they configure wine and run wine /mnt/cdrom/setup.exe from a terminal it will work... |
| 01:42.20 | atoponce | brailsmt_: i've been using linux for 9 years, and installed hardware on linux in corporate and personal settings |
| 01:42.35 | brailsmt_ | atoponce: great, me too |
| 01:42.36 | mheath | It does not work as the instructions say it should, nor like it works on their friends or 'everyone elses' computer |
| 01:42.39 | atoponce | brailsmt_: printers, video cards, hdds, ram, pci, you name it |
| 01:42.54 | mheath | Therefore, they see it as inferior. |
| 01:43.03 | mheath | "Does not work as I expected" == inferior. |
| 01:43.11 | brailsmt_ | i have this video card that still sucks in linux |
| 01:43.21 | mheath | Say their expectations are jacked up, or wrong, thats still the average users opinion. |
| 01:43.23 | brailsmt_ | but works realy well in windows |
| 01:43.40 | *** join/#utah tewk (n=tewk@72.8.99.144) |
| 01:43.41 | brailsmt_ | anyway, i have more important things to do... like pay bills... *whee* |
| 01:43.44 | tene | mheath: so... what's your point? How does that effect suitability of linux for me? |
| 01:43.51 | atoponce | brailsmt_: and i have a usb drive that will *not* work in windows, but works flawlessly in linux |
| 01:44.14 | mheath | tene, It doesn't. We were discussing problems that Linux needs to address before it can truly become competitive on the desktop market. |
| 01:44.24 | brailsmt_ | atoponce: thats because windows really sucks |
| 01:44.33 | tene | mheath: why should I care at all about linux being "competitive on the desktop market"? |
| 01:44.39 | atoponce | brailsmt_: i should elaborate on my hardware + linux stance |
| 01:44.56 | brailsmt_ | atoponce: yeah, you come off as a major fanboi |
| 01:44.58 | mheath | tene, I don't care if you care :) A lot of people are interested in it. |
| 01:45.00 | atoponce | brailsmt_: linux takes better advantage of hardware than windows does |
| 01:45.08 | brailsmt_ | atoponce: agreed |
| 01:45.52 | brailsmt_ | on the same hardware linux will generally outperform windows |
| 01:46.01 | atoponce | as far as hardware compatibility, i thinx the distance between windows and linux is negligable, even if windows is 'better' in that area |
| 01:46.27 | atoponce | i just don't run into hardware compatibility problems much like i used to |
| 01:46.34 | atoponce | it's pretty thin |
| 01:47.22 | brailsmt_ | atoponce: i disagree, most hardware drivers are reverse-engineered in linux, rather than being written by the manufacturer... in some cases you will end up with better drivers with linux, but rarely do they come on release day |
| 01:47.49 | brailsmt_ | so hardware support for linux generally lags windows, for that fact alone |
| 01:48.29 | atoponce | brailsmt_: ok. true. manufactures aren't interested in releasing their specs for linux development, but we're talking bleeding edge video cards mainly, no? |
| 01:48.40 | atoponce | *maybe* wireless |
| 01:48.45 | mheath | particularly video drivers....community made video drivers are often inferior |
| 01:48.57 | tene | atoponce: I went out and bought a laptop a while back without checking hardware support |
| 01:49.16 | tene | the onboard sound card wasn't supported until a few months later. |
| 01:49.37 | mheath | PCMCIA slot on this laptop isn't supported. |
| 01:49.51 | tene | headphone jack and microphone jack didn't work at all |
| 01:49.51 | atoponce | tene: what was the card? |
| 01:49.51 | harleypig | Why aren't you at PLUG! |
| 01:49.51 | tene | they did in the next release of the kernel |
| 01:49.51 | brailsmt_ | things like IDE, SCSI, etc... probably have better more capable and stable drivers for linux than windows |
| 01:50.01 | tene | atoponce: intel something something |
| 01:50.07 | mheath | harleypig, because PLUG is several thousand miles away! |
| 01:50.07 | tene | I don't have the card available to check. |
| 01:50.12 | tene | erm... laptop available |
| 01:50.23 | atoponce | brailsmt_: sata is another that is buggy at best in linux. but windows isn't too far ahead in that area |
| 01:50.37 | atoponce | tene: np. just curious |
| 01:50.52 | brailsmt_ | atoponce: you are making my point for me... :) |
| 01:50.59 | atoponce | tene: if it's intel, though, that surprises me, as most, if not all, of their stuff is supported pretty well |
| 01:51.09 | tene | I was surprised too |
| 01:51.12 | atoponce | brailsmt_: i know. i'm digging a grave, and seem to be falling in |
| 01:51.14 | atoponce | :) |
| 01:51.17 | harleypig | Everclear! |
| 01:51.48 | atoponce | brailsmt_: i just tire of the complaints that linux is hardware and software inferior (no offense mheath ) |
| 01:52.18 | mheath | atoponce, it _is_. |
| 01:52.25 | atoponce | linux isn't some rough-around-the-edges-nothing-works-so-my-grandma-wont-use-it garbage |
| 01:52.25 | brailsmt_ | so, i was at my parent's house sunday and my dad starting ranting about apple's proprietary music format and how he refused to use it... so I asked if he had any problems using Word, Excel, PPT, etc... |
| 01:52.32 | brailsmt_ | you could hear crickets... |
| 01:52.38 | mheath | atoponce, in the compatability arena, it _is_ inferior. |
| 01:52.50 | tene | mheath: 99% of the time, it works perfectly fine for me |
| 01:52.57 | atoponce | mheath: ok. whatever you say. |
| 01:53.09 | tene | I rarely encounter hardware that doesn't work trivially with linux. |
| 01:53.14 | atoponce | mheath: if it's inferior to you, it will *always* be inferior to you |
| 01:53.20 | tene | exceptions include that sound card and a couple of webcams. |
| 01:53.23 | atoponce | tene: that's my point |
| 01:53.32 | tene | That's all that I've personally encountered. |
| 01:53.33 | mheath | atoponce, No. |
| 01:53.51 | mheath | I observe that it is inferior so that I see what needs to be improved on |
| 01:54.01 | brailsmt_ | i don't generally get bleeding edge stuff anyway, so i don't have major problems with hardware supoprt in linux... |
| 01:54.04 | brailsmt_ | gtg... |
| 01:54.05 | mheath | You say "Yep, everythings perfect. No work to do here! Let's move along." |
| 01:54.29 | atoponce | mheath: let's get something clear: if your grandma is using linux, and it's her first time, then she'll get familiar with the os, just as she did getting used to windows her first time |
| 01:54.34 | atoponce | plain and simple |
| 01:54.46 | tene | mheath: no, he says that it's better than it used to be *because* people have been working hard on it |
| 01:55.06 | atoponce | mheath: i'm *not* saying everything works perfectly. no need to put words in my mouth |
| 01:56.18 | atoponce | linux isn't the cure-all for everything. i know that. but it's ahelluvalot better than it was, even 2 years ago |
| 01:56.18 | mheath | <mheath> Right now, a user can go down to Circuit City, and they are guaranteed that the shiny new computer accessory or piece of equipment will work with their Windows PC |
| 01:56.18 | mheath | <atoponce> you're pretty much guaranteed that now in linux |
| 01:56.34 | atoponce | *pretty much* |
| 01:56.39 | atoponce | they are |
| 01:56.59 | atoponce | video cards, i recognize, being the exception |
| 01:57.19 | atoponce | and wireless even, as i have admitted that i have never gotten that to work in linux |
| 01:57.20 | mheath | Web Cams? |
| 01:57.29 | neybar | are you saying that all new periphrials are guarenteed to work in windows? I call BS on that. |
| 01:57.42 | mheath | USB thumb readers? Presenting/Powerpoint remotes (with all the functions working properly in OpenOffice)? |
| 01:57.44 | atoponce | neybar: thank you |
| 01:57.50 | mheath | Printers/Scanners/Copiers? |
| 01:58.03 | mheath | I am not talking about computers |
| 01:58.14 | mheath | If you look at my original statement, I said specifically retail accessories. |
| 01:58.28 | neybar | what in the heck does that have to do with linux? |
| 01:58.35 | atoponce | mheath: i have a presenter mouse. works fine. printer works fine. video, audio, everything in my house has not been a pain, and works *just* *fine* |
| 01:58.47 | neybar | I can make random statments about how hammers always work with nails, but that doesn't prove anything |
| 01:59.10 | mheath | Yet you maintain that I could choose a random printer from my local circuit city and I am pretty much guaranteed taht all of it's features will work? |
| 01:59.18 | mheath | Including scanning/copying ? |
| 02:00.13 | atoponce | hopefully, you don't need software for copying. if you do, get a new copier |
| 02:00.26 | atoponce | and there are scanning utils in linux that work with my all-in-one |
| 02:00.52 | tene | mheath: the two all-in-ones that I've seen used on linux systems worked without trouble. I don't know anything beyond that. |
| 02:01.12 | mheath | I know my all-in-one that I purchaed at circuit city doesn't have any of the functions working in Linux. |
| 02:01.21 | tene | So, in my personal experience, 100% |
| 02:01.22 | mheath | <atoponce> hopefully, you don't need software for copying. if you do, get a new copier |
| 02:01.29 | neybar | therefore no all-in-ones must work in linux |
| 02:01.34 | mheath | Thats as stupid as the winmodems-are-worthless argument |
| 02:01.41 | atoponce | mheath: what? |
| 02:01.54 | tene | mheath: he's saying that copying shouldn't involve the computer at all. |
| 02:02.00 | atoponce | copying should be done in the copier |
| 02:02.04 | atoponce | not in your pc |
| 02:02.07 | tene | i.e. should be usable with the device standalone |
| 02:02.21 | mheath | A vastly cheaper, simpler alternative but its been dubbed inferior because the software doesn't always work with your Linux system. |
| 02:03.37 | mheath | People say the same things about winmodems |
| 02:03.49 | mheath | Oh, they're HORRIBLE! Get a pure hardware modem instead. |
| 02:04.15 | neybar | to be fair though winmodems _are_ horrible |
| 02:04.18 | neybar | even in windows |
| 02:04.34 | tene | I've never used a dialup connection in linux, so that's never affected me one way or the other. |
| 02:04.41 | brac | I've never used it... |
| 02:05.31 | atoponce | i think i tried dialup in linux *once* at a motel while vacationing. worked fine. |
| 02:06.07 | atoponce | but i still don't understand the analogy with copiers and modems |
| 02:06.21 | neybar | heh, yeah my general opinion is dialup isn't worth even using. I've never been in a situation where I needed connection that badly |
| 02:08.28 | atoponce | we're developing a pretty intensive web app at work, and we're taking the stance that you'll need a broadband connection and a moderately newer computer to use it, just as, that's where we should all be |
| 02:08.49 | atoponce | we're not worried about alienating the small percentage that can't take advantage of it |
| 02:09.32 | rsimpkins | atoponce: It would depend on the type of traffic your site is intended for. Try to do that for a senior citizens web site. ;) |
| 02:09.42 | atoponce | rsimpkins: true |
| 02:10.10 | atoponce | rsimpkins: we're targeting people interested in recording and maintaining their exercise data |
| 02:10.31 | rsimpkins | atoponce: So 20-45, not 45-60? |
| 02:10.37 | atoponce | yup :) |
| 02:10.41 | neybar | what if they want to update their profile from a mobile device while on the move? |
| 02:11.14 | atoponce | neybar: that'll be for a 2.0, or maybe even 3.0 release |
| 02:11.42 | atoponce | too much core stuff to implement currently |
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| 02:45.41 | elg | -lart vontrapp |
| 02:58.28 | harleypig | /jon #utos |
| 03:03.29 | elg | ah, a secret meeting? |
| 03:03.35 | elg | -join #utos |
| 03:05.00 | *** join/#utah nick125_lappy (n=nick@nat.nick125.com) |
| 03:15.25 | elg | -chat |
| 03:15.28 | brac | promise to give up now. I'm training to survive 5 more months |
| 03:16.08 | goozbach | ok any bsd'ers in the house? |
| 03:16.16 | goozbach | how do I see what my routing table is? |
| 03:16.37 | elg | netstat -rn |
| 03:16.39 | elg | perhaps |
| 03:16.58 | elg | <-- not a BSD'er but an OS X'er which isn't too different |
| 03:19.12 | goozbach | I should have thought to use netstat |
| 03:19.25 | nick125_lappy | route -n maybe? |
| 03:19.26 | goozbach | I'm to familiar with ipconfig |
| 03:19.33 | nick125_lappy | its been a while since I've used BSD |
| 03:19.35 | goozbach | route -n doesn't work |
| 03:19.51 | goozbach | there IS a route command. I just can't get it to do anything at all |
| 03:25.23 | goozbach | and where are these routes stored persistantly? |
| 03:25.32 | goozbach | I'd assume somewhere in /etc/ |
| 03:25.37 | goozbach | ? |
| 03:26.06 | harleypig | bleh |
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| 03:52.34 | goozbach | I've come to understand why bsd'ers are all druggies |
| 03:52.50 | goozbach | no offense to current company |
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| 03:53.25 | *** mode/#utah [+o Jayce^] by ChanServ |
| 03:53.29 | harleypig | You mean besides the fact tthat it was made at the same place that made lsd? |
| 03:54.19 | goozbach | and a bit afterwords? |
| 03:54.38 | goozbach | maybe I'm getting my cause-efect screwed up |
| 03:54.49 | goozbach | maybe it's like this BECAUSE of the drugs |
| 03:55.44 | goozbach | all I want to do is have two interfaces connected to seperate lans, route out a third interface |
| 03:57.08 | elg | goozbach: i can't figure out why route is worthless either |
| 03:57.20 | elg | as for permanence, probably just in some startup scripts would be my bet |
| 03:57.43 | goozbach | pfsense uses php for it's init system!? |
| 03:57.49 | goozbach | ohh the humanity!!! |
| 03:57.52 | elg | hahaha |
| 03:58.02 | elg | i'm tellin' ya. ferm |
| 03:58.30 | goozbach | ahh and lucky for me! the config( for the entire device ) is stored in a single XML file!!!1 |
| 03:58.34 | goozbach | WHOOHOO!!! |
| 03:58.41 | elg | linux firewall with iptables made easy |
| 03:58.49 | elg | (if you understand the underlying concepts) |
| 03:58.53 | elg | http://ferm.foo-projects.org/ |
| 03:58.55 | brac | [ferm - for Easy Rule Making] |
| 03:59.08 | goozbach | too bad I couldnt get an image of linux running on this WRAP device |
| 03:59.23 | brac | too bad you were talking about new technology hi |
| 03:59.23 | elg | oh an appliance |
| 03:59.30 | elg | ain't never met an appliance I liked |
| 03:59.36 | elg | except my buffalo router with openwrt :) |
| 03:59.53 | elg | my favorite appliance to hate was the netgear VPN appliance |
| 03:59.57 | elg | oooooh that thing was evil |
| 04:00.29 | goozbach | I found a pfsense image |
| 04:01.05 | goozbach | elg: this WRAP box, *with sexy aluminim enclosure* cost me $50 |
| 04:01.31 | goozbach | they're now selling on ebay for over $140 |
| 04:01.44 | elg | nice I guess |
| 04:01.48 | elg | what does WRAP mean? |
| 04:02.51 | goozbach | http://www.pcengines.ch/wrap.htm |
| 04:02.53 | brac | [PC Engines Wireless Router Application Platform] |
| 04:04.20 | elg | wow pretty slick. why not one of the linux ones? |
| 04:05.45 | goozbach | I couldn't get an image I liked to work |
| 04:05.56 | goozbach | and I wanted to play with pfsense |
| 04:06.08 | goozbach | it came so highly recomended |
| 04:06.40 | elg | are you sure they were your friends? ;-) |
| 04:07.11 | elg | i've never used it. i've heard good things about pf but really I've not had any problem I couldn't easily solve with iptables |
| 04:10.04 | goozbach | if it were iptables and ipconfig, I could have written the rules all up and been done with it by now |
| 04:14.41 | goozbach | but heck, why not learn something new |
| 04:14.41 | goozbach | ? |
| 04:16.01 | nick125_lappy | Unless its broken, don't fix it. |
| 04:16.47 | *** part/#utah harleypig (n=harleypi@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 04:19.17 | findlay | I wish somebody told me that earlier this week |
| 04:20.51 | nick125_lappy | Novell has just been blacklisted by every Linux geek in the world. |
| 04:20.56 | nick125_lappy | http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/0,1000000121,39286295,00.htm |
| 04:20.59 | brac | [Novell linked to 'Windows cheaper than Linux' statement - ZDNet UK] |
| 04:37.13 | levi_home | Heh. Only blacklisted by stupid Linux fanboys that don't read past headlines. |
| 04:37.55 | findlay | levi_home: you must not be a true geek then! |
| 04:38.34 | levi_home | Because I'm not a stupid Linux fanboy? I'm okay with that. |
| 04:39.36 | findlay | no, because you don't react to spin 'the news/media' puts on stuff :) |
| 04:39.44 | findlay | in this instance |
| 04:39.57 | levi_home | Oh. Well, I'm quite okay with that, too. |
| 04:42.00 | levi_home | I am a Guy Steele fan, though. |
| 05:08.54 | findlay | but Stroustrup has a lower TCO! |
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| 13:01.42 | goozbach | morn gooding! |
| 13:13.49 | jsmith | goozbach: To you as well! |
| 13:30.41 | emcnabb | mornin' all |
| 13:46.16 | graphyx | In cyberspace no one can hear you scream with an accent! |
| 13:47.15 | jsmith | Scream? |
| 13:48.34 | *** join/#utah ^Migs^ (n=migs@205.122.50.69) |
| 13:49.10 | graphyx | in was a play on words from the book in space noone can hear you scream. |
| 13:53.47 | elg | the book? wasn't that the tagline for "Alien"? |
| 13:57.33 | elg | sigh. another 30°C high today |
| 13:57.43 | elg | it's not supposed to be this hot yet |
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| 14:17.20 | goozbach | it got to 80F here yesterday |
| 14:24.15 | goozbach | great idea of the week thus far: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_IT_Crowd#DVD |
| 14:24.26 | goozbach | subtitles in leet |
| 14:26.44 | elg | 85°F here yesterday too |
| 14:39.29 | elg | well, I guess pvmove ain't gonna work |
| 14:39.33 | elg | too bad, it would have been slick |
| 14:42.03 | redbeard1 | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweetbread |
| 14:42.19 | redbeard1 | tasty! |
| 14:42.24 | Jayce^ | you know you are working here when our 'breakfast' discussion involves that URL |
| 14:43.05 | redbeard1 | no, that just means that _i'm_ working here |
| 14:43.27 | redbeard1 | otoh, didn't our breakfast discussion some months ago involve lutefisk? |
| 14:44.07 | jsmith | lutefisk! |
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| 14:56.59 | Jayce^ | yeah, but that's been a while |
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| 15:16.07 | lukfugl | guten morgen |
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| 15:28.24 | goozbach | so RHEL5 is pretty nice! |
| 15:31.01 | jsmith | Yup |
| 15:31.11 | jsmith | Well, at least RHEL5 Beta 2 is nice |
| 15:31.21 | jsmith | I've been quite impressed with it |
| 15:35.59 | Supaplex | is that before or after you ate all that lutefisk? ;) |
| 15:36.18 | jsmith | After ;-) |
| 15:36.28 | Supaplex | hehheh |
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| 15:44.24 | ^Migs^ | http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=268346 |
| 15:44.26 | brac | [ksl.com - 70,000 Beer Cans Found in Ogden Townhouse] |
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| 15:48.54 | levi | That's oooooold. |
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| 16:09.02 | goozbach | best feature of RHEL-5 thus far: createrepo and repodata built into the disc image |
| 16:09.40 | goozbach | just do a simple copy of the discs and a rebuild of the metadata, and walah! you've got a yum repo |
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| 16:31.58 | lukfugl | -lart elg |
| 16:32.03 | lukfugl | I mean... |
| 16:32.05 | lukfugl | ~welcome elg |
| 16:32.07 | ibot | [all in unison] Hi, elg! |
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| 16:34.59 | harleypig | Can anyone tell me how to determine what type of filesystem is on a cdrom? |
| 16:35.51 | dataw0lf | uh. iso9660. |
| 16:36.57 | harleypig | Nope. |
| 16:37.13 | harleypig | sweetums ~ # mount -t iso9660 /dev/hdc /media/cdrom |
| 16:37.13 | harleypig | mount: block device /dev/hdc is write-protected, mounting read-only |
| 16:37.13 | harleypig | mount: wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on /dev/hdc, |
| 16:37.13 | harleypig | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:37.37 | harleypig | isofs_fill_super: bread failed, dev=hdc, iso_blknum=16, block=16 |
| 16:37.40 | harleypig | is in dmesg |
| 16:38.12 | harleypig | I've tried msdos, ntfs, fat |
| 16:38.22 | tensai | udf? |
| 16:39.26 | harleypig | UDF-fs: No partition found |
| 16:39.35 | tensai | # mount -t harleypigfs /dev/sdb /mnt |
| 16:39.37 | tensai | mount: wrong fs type, bad option, or leather butt-thong missing |
| 16:39.41 | harleypig | with a whole bunch of attempt to access byte . |
| 16:39.48 | harleypig | :D |
| 16:40.07 | macnewbold | harleypig: try using dd to dump the first few blocks, and see if you can see the magic #s that identify the fs type |
| 16:40.16 | dataw0lf | harleypig: I'd check to make sure that the drive is installed properly |
| 16:40.19 | dataw0lf | cables and such |
| 16:40.25 | dataw0lf | what kernel version are you using? |
| 16:40.55 | tensai | is the drive working for other disks? |
| 16:41.46 | harleypig | It's a laptop, and it's been working fine. I just put another disk in and it read it jus t fie. |
| 16:43.13 | QBFreak | is the disc scratched at all? especially on the top (label) or near the center hub? |
| 16:43.35 | harleypig | nope |
| 16:43.44 | QBFreak | does the disc work on another box? |
| 16:44.03 | harleypig | macnewbold: I just saw your suggestion. trying that. |
| 16:44.41 | harleypig | QBFreak: Haven't been able to try that. |
| 16:45.14 | harleypig | macnewbold: dd if=/dev/hdc count=? 32? |
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| 16:53.56 | elg | so what does a ssytems analyst do? |
| 16:54.24 | dataw0lf | you'd think that Novell would have realized that respect in the open source community at large is more valuable than respect from Microsoft. |
| 16:54.31 | dataw0lf | and much harder to come by. |
| 16:54.36 | brac | and much harder to configure extension and then pretend that there coverage is horrible |
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| 16:55.07 | dataw0lf | elg: analyzing systems.. |
| 16:55.12 | tensai | "Microsoft Excel cannot paste the data" |
| 16:55.22 | tensai | what kind of a lame error is that? |
| 16:55.27 | dataw0lf | elg: improving production of said systems, expanding them, etc |
| 16:55.30 | macnewbold | harleypig: 32 sounds fine |
| 16:55.38 | macnewbold | I have no idea how many bytes you'd need to be able to tell |
| 16:56.21 | dataw0lf | the magic number is only 4 bytes, aye? |
| 16:58.29 | atoponce | http://consumerist.com/consumer/riaa/npr-vs-the-riaa-244318.php |
| 16:59.04 | atoponce | and if that doesn't boil your blood: |
| 16:59.09 | brac | and if they choose to vote Ashdown. |
| 16:59.11 | atoponce | http://www.heraldextra.com/content/view/213120/ |
| 16:59.27 | atoponce | brac: then the state of utah would be free |
| 16:59.50 | tensai | harleypig: bs=512 count=65 |
| 17:00.27 | tensai | although if you go to count=69 then you can see if it's bootable |
| 17:01.55 | macnewbold | yeah, listen to tensai - I don't know any of the details |
| 17:02.40 | dataw0lf | atoponce: ugggggh 'adult channel' versus 'family channel' |
| 17:03.25 | atoponce | dataw0lf: excuse my while i change my internet port to 8132 |
| 17:03.28 | brac | excuse my language |
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| 17:08.07 | atoponce | phil windley blogged about it best: 'technology is dominated by two types of people: those who understand what they do not manage, and those who manage what they do not understand' |
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| 17:11.22 | *** join/#utah sjansen (n=sjansen@class1-nat.gurulabs.com) |
| 17:11.29 | ^Migs^ | At any time, if you do not feel completely satisfied with any aspect of the case, I encourage you to let myself, or my manager Ramesh Meiyyappan... |
| 17:11.32 | ^Migs^ | how do you pronounce that? |
| 17:12.20 | atoponce | rah-meesh mi-a-pahn |
| 17:13.24 | sjansen | http://trash.chregu.tv/instructions.txt <-- NSFSE (Not safe for sensitive ears.) |
| 17:14.50 | dataw0lf | sjansen: awesome |
| 17:15.31 | elg | i think he needs a few more of those magic words |
| 17:15.33 | elg | they don't seem to be working |
| 17:16.35 | elg | dataw0lf: and how does a systems analyst improve said systems? I'm trying to figure out what skillsets they have and use |
| 17:17.23 | elg | a friend of mine from a few years back became one and I'm trying to figure out just how techy he is now without giving him an exam or questionnaire |
| 17:17.46 | elg | (ballpark figure) |
| 17:18.12 | elg | On a tech-y scale of 0 to 1111... |
| 17:18.16 | sjansen | elg: What've you got against LVM? |
| 17:18.29 | sjansen | LVM is the cat's meow. |
| 17:18.46 | elg | i figured, might as well use lvm on the new drive. might regret it later if I don't and it's not _that_ hard |
| 17:19.03 | elg | so in reading the howto, I see this recipe for moving the physical extents from one hard drive to another (taking the old one out) |
| 17:19.06 | elg | hey, nifty |
| 17:19.13 | elg | so I try it, and my machine locks up |
| 17:19.17 | elg | (yes I backed up) |
| 17:19.29 | elg | on boot it won't fsck the lvm partitions |
| 17:20.13 | elg | in single user mode (i wasn't stupid enough to do root on lvm, thank goodness) it appears that it won't scan the vg |
| 17:20.35 | elg | because the pvmove command died. So I figure out via google that I need to do pvmove --abort |
| 17:20.40 | elg | cool, now it boots |
| 17:21.00 | dataw0lf | elg: well, in my experience, there's two types of system analysts, theoretical (relatively unskilled in technical matters) and practical, who're usually concentrated on a specific type of systems or a specific platform (Networking, File Servers; Unix, IOS) |
| 17:21.14 | dataw0lf | have you seen his resume? |
| 17:21.21 | findlay | does anybody know of a good local place to buy discount desktop systems? |
| 17:21.53 | elg | look at the error logs and stuff and the error messages are in the FAQ (solution: use the right version of the tools, kernel modules, etc.) |
| 17:22.32 | elg | but I have the latest versions available in Debian, which don't _appear_ to be too far behind, and there's no mention of how to tell what the "right versions" are |
| 17:22.41 | elg | and what if I wanted to revert back to an older kernel? |
| 17:23.24 | elg | so basically, pvmove is out of the question and lvm just raised my hopes up for nothing but an unpleasant morning of trying to get a crippled system (with a TV for a monitor) back on its feet |
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| 17:23.32 | elg | the least it could have done is fail gracefully |
| 17:24.19 | elg | dataw0lf: he's working on a specific system - something inhouse at Harvard |
| 17:25.13 | tensai | sjansen: we have problems with lvm snapshots. they'll lock up all I/O to the vg. very not good. |
| 17:27.17 | elg | so anyway I have to do it the old fashioned way (with rsync) |
| 17:33.44 | findlay | like Bill? |
| 17:37.14 | Supaplex | tensai: how big are they? |
| 17:37.55 | tensai | Supaplex: the source lv is 500GB. the snapshot is allocated anywhere from 18-36GB. |
| 17:38.31 | Supaplex | well, glad I don't rely on them... yet. :-/ |
| 17:45.59 | levi | Gah, Slashdot just ran that 'Novell says Windows is Cheaper than Linux' story. |
| 17:49.44 | elg | levi: you knew they would |
| 17:49.55 | levi | Yeah. |
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| 18:17.19 | bonez41 | anyone with comcast? I had xmission...am switching over to comcast for the speed increase over dsl....but now I can't seem to get them pass through my email traffic for me to manage on my end... |
| 18:17.40 | ^Migs^ | http://www.buckmasters.com/myspace/images/redneckflatscreen.jpg |
| 18:17.45 | elg | that's the downside of cable |
| 18:18.21 | elg | ^Migs^: much too innovative for a redneck |
| 18:18.31 | bonez41 | they assured me they would pass it through though, and allow me to manage my own mail.....I guess i need to call my sales guy and twist his arm |
| 18:18.45 | elg | i would say so |
| 18:20.59 | goozbach | ^Migs^: http://boortz.com/more/funny/redneck_pics_loveseat.html |
| 18:21.03 | brac | [boortz.com: More Boortz |
| 18:21.05 | brac | Redneck Scrap Book] |
| 18:21.10 | goozbach | to watch your new flatscreen |
| 18:21.23 | ^Migs^ | haha |
| 18:21.26 | ^Migs^ | that's a good one |
| 18:23.11 | elg | ha. this student emailed the testing output of his program to himself and printed the email from his yahoo mail with the browser |
| 18:23.49 | ^Migs^ | http://boortz.com/more/funny/redneck_pics_kegger.html |
| 18:23.50 | brac | [boortz.com: More Boortz |
| 18:23.50 | brac | Redneck Scrap Book] |
| 18:23.54 | ^Migs^ | HAHAHAHAHAHA |
| 18:33.21 | atoponce | http://irc.netsplit.de/networks/details.php?net=freenode&submenu=years |
| 18:33.23 | brac | [IRC Network freenode - irc.netsplit.de] |
| 18:34.28 | elg | man my teacher is wishywashy |
| 18:36.03 | elg | the midterm was hard, maybe a bit too hard (mostly because we thought it was open book and it was closed book) |
| 18:36.20 | elg | so he's asking us to do it again as a takehome and he'll weight the two together |
| 18:36.38 | elg | instead of just letting us get suboptimal grades |
| 18:36.59 | levi | Heh. |
| 18:38.08 | elg | which I didn't catch in his broken indian accent at the end of the test (apparently he said it then, when he asked us how it was and we said we didn't think we did so well) |
| 18:38.19 | elg | and I just learned from a peer student in the hallway |
| 18:38.23 | elg | lucky encounter, that |
| 18:42.02 | graphyx | http://boortz.com/more/funny/redneck_pics_xmasdeer.html |
| 18:42.02 | brac | [boortz.com: More Boortz |
| 18:42.03 | brac | Redneck Scrap Book] |
| 18:42.24 | graphyx | those redneck photos are pretty bad |
| 18:42.33 | graphyx | its more amuzing living here in AR |
| 18:42.48 | elg | haha, that's great |
| 18:43.06 | graphyx | my boss told me that if I ever hit a dear to give him a call and he would come get it. |
| 18:43.32 | QBFreak | you mean a deer, if you hit a dear I think you have bigger problems than just a messed up car |
| 18:43.42 | graphyx | that if they see that someone hit a deer they stop and ask, someone claim this one yet? |
| 18:43.48 | graphyx | yes a deer |
| 18:50.58 | elg | that was interesting. some guy in my class was just talking to me, and spoke almost entirely in passive tense |
| 18:51.45 | jsmith | Wow! |
| 18:51.45 | jsmith | That's awesome. |
| 18:51.51 | jsmith | I wonder if I could do that |
| 18:52.27 | elg | heh. I don't think it was meant to be amusing |
| 18:52.40 | elg | but it was |
| 18:59.42 | graphyx | http://boortz.com/more/funny/redneck_pics_ui.html |
| 18:59.44 | brac | [boortz.com: More Boortz |
| 18:59.44 | brac | Redneck Scrap Book] |
| 19:08.29 | *** join/#utah jNb3k (n=jNb3k@c-24-10-178-17.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 19:45.27 | *** join/#utah bonez41 (n=bonez@c-71-195-250-0.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 19:51.42 | *** join/#utah TimRiker (n=timr@216.49.181.128) |
| 19:51.42 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 20:05.01 | goozbach | cool! |
| 20:05.11 | goozbach | I just migrated a machine from RHEL-5-beta2 to RHEL-5 final |
| 20:05.15 | goozbach | using yum |
| 20:06.57 | emcnabb | goozbach: cool |
| 20:07.18 | emcnabb | it's not officially "supported", but shouldn't have issues :-) |
| 20:08.13 | findlay | how is yum these days? |
| 20:08.21 | findlay | yummy? |
| 20:08.26 | emcnabb | WORKSFORME |
| 20:09.07 | findlay | not WONTFIX? :) |
| 20:09.43 | jsmith | WORKSFORME |
| 20:09.49 | jsmith | Better than ever |
| 20:09.58 | jsmith | (which isn't saying much... but still) |
| 20:10.14 | findlay | Microsoft is quite a bunch of swindlers |
| 20:11.00 | findlay | I wish people could just use inkscape+gimp then the world would be a happy place |
| 20:11.40 | findlay | but no, we have to pay our dues to ADOBE(R) and MICROSOFT(R) CORP(TM) |
| 20:12.06 | emcnabb | findlay: I hereby command you to preach this to the uninformed masses; now get thee hence |
| 20:12.11 | jsmith | Well, until Inkscape catches up with Illustrator, I'll keep paying that tax |
| 20:12.18 | brac | until Inkscape catches up with the unsecured signature loan, there are no great calendar apps to work |
| 20:12.32 | emcnabb | ? |
| 20:12.43 | jsmith | Nice one brac! |
| 20:12.53 | macnewbold | hehe |
| 20:12.54 | findlay | but illustrator is Evil(R). Therefore anything is infinitely better than it |
| 20:13.31 | jsmith | Just because it's proprietary doesn't make it evil... it just makes it less than ideal. |
| 20:13.31 | brac | Just because it?s legal it doesn?t mean that my uncle (who is 15) saying, "Just smoke a joint in Sugarhouse for shooting pool and is out that someone on my gentoo profile is so horrible" |
| 20:13.31 | *** join/#utah nick125_lappy (n=nick@nat.nick125.com) |
| 20:13.35 | lukfugl | lol |
| 20:13.43 | Lone_Wanderer | Best Brac Ever |
| 20:13.47 | jsmith | Yup |
| 20:13.49 | findlay | jsmith: I was speaking in hyperbole |
| 20:13.51 | jsmith | Save that one. |
| 20:14.00 | jsmith | How do you fit in a hyperbola? |
| 20:14.02 | findlay | mostly |
| 20:15.33 | emcnabb | http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=sponsor |
| 20:15.34 | brac | [For every animal you don't eat, I'm going to eat three.] |
| 20:16.22 | findlay | -chat |
| 20:16.22 | brac | Hi class |
| 20:16.35 | findlay | -chat about something longer |
| 20:16.35 | brac | something longer |
| 20:16.51 | atoponce | -chat about findlay |
| 20:16.52 | brac | findlay is glad that it functions about the high stress playing tetris while having gone logically step by step. |
| 20:16.55 | findlay | -chat about best brac ever |
| 20:16.55 | brac | incorrect usage, ask for help using 'brac: help chat' |
| 20:16.57 | macnewbold | -chat about brac |
| 20:16.57 | brac | brac went |
| 20:17.08 | findlay | -chat about ibot is |
| 20:17.08 | brac | ibot is female, etc. |
| 20:17.43 | findlay | -chat about ibot didn't |
| 20:17.43 | brac | ibot didn't |
| 20:17.51 | findlay | -chat about whatever |
| 20:17.51 | brac | whatever went |
| 20:17.59 | findlay | interesting |
| 20:21.46 | goozbach | emcnabb: it was mostly a "I wonder if I can do this" sort of thing |
| 20:22.29 | goozbach | and aparently I can |
| 20:22.32 | goozbach | :) |
| 20:23.07 | findlay | -chat about goozbach can |
| 20:23.07 | brac | goozbach can do it with socks ... is at" and nothing else can i make networking work |
| 20:23.34 | findlay | well, if goozbach can do it with socks, who needs shoes anymore? |
| 20:27.20 | lukfugl | -chat about socks |
| 20:27.20 | brac | socks had |
| 20:27.39 | lukfugl | -chat about socket programming |
| 20:27.39 | brac | socket programming is purely a tactical move born from extensive testing, and I don't have any recommendations for some reason, that guy have a choice to give you some access to the plug stuff was related to CmdrTaco? |
| 20:27.59 | lukfugl | heh |
| 20:28.02 | goozbach | brac is getting much smarter |
| 20:32.36 | Lone_Wanderer | -chat about php is |
| 20:32.36 | brac | php is designed? I thought jarhead was a joke, but maybe my implementation was broken down and shows the world Jayce's pink spotted underwear |
| 20:33.02 | goozbach | heh |
| 20:33.19 | goozbach | -chat about pineapples are |
| 20:33.20 | brac | pineapples are |
| 20:33.29 | goozbach | -chat |
| 20:33.29 | brac | ~seen planet-overlord |
| 20:33.57 | ibot | planet-overlord <n=planet-o@gocastlerock.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #utah, 330d 23h 26m 50s ago, saying: 'they love you!'. |
| 20:34.12 | lukfugl | lol |
| 20:36.00 | Lone_Wanderer | -chat about brac is |
| 20:36.01 | brac | brac is really much about it being run ragged or not |
| 20:37.38 | findlay | ~brac |
| 20:37.41 | ibot | extra, extra, read all about it, brac is the enemy, or a bnot |
| 20:38.33 | lukfugl | -chat about what women want |
| 20:38.33 | brac | incorrect usage, ask for help using 'brac: help chat' |
| 20:38.42 | lukfugl | can he only take two lead words? |
| 20:38.48 | findlay | -chat about stuff |
| 20:38.49 | brac | stuff did |
| 20:39.07 | findlay | -chat about stuff did |
| 20:39.07 | brac | stuff did |
| 20:39.14 | findlay | -chat |
| 20:39.14 | brac | can't... keep... going... |
| 20:39.30 | findlay | sorry. Didn't mean to overwork brac |
| 20:39.34 | tensai | lukfugl: yes, only two words |
| 20:39.50 | findlay | -chat about two words |
| 20:39.50 | brac | two words don't go on and on, so I don't want to pay for it |
| 20:42.31 | graphyx | -chat about women want |
| 20:42.32 | brac | women want |
| 20:42.47 | graphyx | -chat about girls want |
| 20:42.47 | brac | girls want |
| 20:42.56 | tene | -chat about explosion glass |
| 20:42.56 | brac | explosion glass |
| 20:42.58 | graphyx | lukfugl: He doesn't know anythirg |
| 20:42.58 | jsmith | -chat about graphyx is |
| 20:43.00 | brac | graphyx is |
| 20:43.03 | tene | -chat about bots should |
| 20:43.03 | brac | bots should only buy products that work with their service, I've discovered. |
| 20:43.10 | jsmith | tene: Good one! |
| 20:43.12 | graphyx | about girls and women |
| 20:43.16 | jsmith | -chat about girls and |
| 20:43.17 | brac | girls and guys meeting there... |
| 20:43.20 | harleypig | -chat about tene should |
| 20:43.21 | brac | tene should |
| 20:43.29 | harleypig | meh |
| 20:43.53 | graphyx | lukfugl: the problem is that his corpus is based upon what he hears in the channel |
| 20:44.12 | graphyx | hence his lack of knowledge of women and girls. |
| 20:44.19 | tene | and tene |
| 20:44.21 | lukfugl | heh |
| 20:44.42 | jsmith | -chat about Ubuntu is |
| 20:44.42 | brac | Ubuntu is going to intern there, I hope thats a good number of calls |
| 20:44.47 | jsmith | ;-) |
| 20:45.37 | graphyx | chat about asterisk is |
| 20:45.51 | graphyx | -chat about asterisk is |
| 20:45.52 | brac | asterisk is nice |
| 20:45.57 | findlay | -chat about tene knows |
| 20:45.57 | brac | tene knows |
| 20:46.11 | goozbach | -chat about goozbach |
| 20:46.11 | brac | goozbach went |
| 20:46.15 | goozbach | that he did |
| 20:46.25 | graphyx | -chat about tensai is |
| 20:46.25 | findlay | no way, clutter up #utah! |
| 20:46.25 | brac | tensai is nervous about his ex-widdow |
| 20:46.44 | graphyx | whats an ex-widdow? |
| 20:47.05 | goozbach | graphyx: it's what they call your wife when you come back from the dead |
| 20:47.06 | graphyx | is that someone whose dead spouse has been brought back to life? |
| 20:47.32 | *** join/#utah fungus (n=fungus@mailhub.sosstaffing.com) |
| 20:47.58 | graphyx | goozbach: that would be an ex-widdower |
| 20:48.03 | ^Migs^ | how can I add a partition in Linux? |
| 20:48.09 | graphyx | fdisk |
| 20:48.13 | ^Migs^ | oh, okay |
| 20:48.29 | graphyx | mk2efs it |
| 20:48.33 | graphyx | and then mount it |
| 20:48.40 | findlay | gparted? |
| 20:48.53 | graphyx | be sure to add it in /etc/fstab |
| 20:48.54 | goozbach | graphyx: widdower is a male who's wife has departed |
| 20:49.08 | findlay | ~spell widdower |
| 20:49.09 | graphyx | right |
| 20:49.10 | goozbach | so ex-widdow would be a husband dies, then comes back |
| 20:49.18 | goozbach | ~dict widdow |
| 20:49.28 | findlay | maybe you meant dower, hehehe |
| 20:49.28 | graphyx | I am glad that I am not all that familiar with these terms |
| 20:49.30 | goozbach | ~dict widow |
| 20:49.54 | graphyx | ~dict widower |
| 20:51.40 | *** join/#utah fungus (n=fungus@mailhub.sosstaffing.com) |
| 20:51.41 | findlay | ~the ides of March |
| 20:51.58 | findlay | -chat about beware the |
| 20:51.58 | brac | beware the ides of March! |
| 20:52.04 | findlay | sweet! |
| 20:52.08 | findlay | that's right, brac |
| 20:53.39 | *** join/#utah nick125_lappy (n=nick@nat.nick125.com) |
| 20:53.57 | jsmith | -chat about beware of |
| 20:53.57 | brac | beware of |
| 20:54.17 | graphyx | -chat aboun ides of |
| 20:54.17 | brac | incorrect usage, ask for help using 'brac: help chat' |
| 20:54.26 | graphyx | -chat about ides of |
| 20:54.26 | brac | ides of March! |
| 20:54.40 | graphyx | -chat about something else |
| 20:54.40 | brac | something else although I'm not *that* different... |
| 20:55.05 | tensai | well that's just freaking great |
| 20:55.10 | tensai | phpldapadmin stopped working |
| 20:55.36 | findlay | maybe it should be myphpldapadmin |
| 20:56.00 | findlay | myphpldapadminrendesvousaciously |
| 20:56.06 | tensai | somehow I don't think it matters |
| 20:56.35 | findlay | probably not |
| 20:57.02 | tensai | only thing I can think of is that I applied a security upgrade for php |
| 21:00.03 | Supaplex | it's so secure, even you can't use it |
| 21:03.13 | Lone_Wanderer | -chat aboot Canadians are |
| 21:03.14 | brac | incorrect usage, ask for help using 'brac: help chat' |
| 21:03.18 | Lone_Wanderer | -chat about Canadians are |
| 21:03.18 | brac | Canadians are |
| 21:04.25 | Supaplex | cheap |
| 21:04.40 | goozbach | -chat about canada |
| 21:04.40 | brac | canada is a flathead gravelmonkey with an AGP slot, or onboard video? |
| 21:04.47 | goozbach | heh |
| 21:04.49 | Supaplex | haha |
| 21:05.08 | Lone_Wanderer | -chat about Bush |
| 21:05.08 | brac | Bush is a VPS frop verio |
| 21:05.21 | Lone_Wanderer | -chat about Bush policies |
| 21:05.21 | brac | Bush policies |
| 21:05.29 | Lone_Wanderer | -chat about Dianne Rehm |
| 21:05.29 | brac | Dianne Rehm |
| 21:05.56 | Supaplex | -chat about bird brain bot |
| 21:05.56 | brac | incorrect usage, ask for help using 'brac: help chat' |
| 21:06.02 | jsmith | -chat about brain bot |
| 21:06.02 | brac | brain bot |
| 21:06.07 | Lone_Wanderer | -chat about brac's dumb |
| 21:06.07 | brac | brac's dumb |
| 21:06.08 | jsmith | -chat about bird brain |
| 21:06.08 | brac | bird brain |
| 21:06.16 | Supaplex | -chat about brainless bot |
| 21:06.16 | brac | brainless bot |
| 21:06.17 | jsmith | -chat about why does |
| 21:06.17 | brac | why does it look? :) |
| 21:06.25 | jsmith | -chat about what does |
| 21:06.25 | brac | what does one do the trick? |
| 21:07.28 | lukfugl | -chat about incorrect usage |
| 21:07.28 | brac | incorrect usage and gives it to an Access point and click (and copy and paste skills are second to elegance, and science |
| 21:07.55 | lukfugl | wow, I never knew brac though so highly of copy and paste |
| 21:08.15 | jsmith | -chat about copy and |
| 21:08.15 | brac | copy and paste) on windows thats good to be the worlds deadliest disease is completely destroyed. |
| 21:14.45 | findlay | -chat about never wanted |
| 21:14.45 | brac | never wanted |
| 21:22.05 | findlay | how do you tell cpan to not use LWP to get stuff? |
| 21:22.06 | harleypig | http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7756811803833693909&q=sperm+wars&hl=en |
| 21:22.12 | harleypig | Very Cool |
| 21:22.17 | findlay | because it just sits there |
| 21:22.23 | findlay | stupidly |
| 21:24.40 | findlay | argh |
| 21:26.00 | harleypig | findlay: I can't find anything on that. You might have to patch LWP |
| 21:26.51 | findlay | ~patch LWP |
| 21:27.02 | elg | just hate LWP. it's more satisfying |
| 21:27.04 | findlay | do it, ibot! |
| 21:27.30 | harleypig | err .. not LWP, cpan |
| 21:27.43 | findlay | yeah, kind of annoying |
| 21:28.01 | Jayce^ | findlay, Config.pm |
| 21:28.48 | tensai | debian's phpldapadmin 0.9.5 isn't compatible with the latest security release for php4. well, that's just silly |
| 21:28.55 | findlay | the problem with Config.pm is I've never found it documented anywhere |
| 21:29.01 | tensai | upgraded to 0.9.8.3 from upstream and it works fine |
| 21:29.49 | tensai | diane rehm had the coolest voice |
| 21:30.37 | lukfugl | ugh, no |
| 21:30.38 | *** join/#utah mheath (i=mheath@c-76-23-104-208.hsd1.sc.comcast.net) |
| 21:30.40 | lukfugl | I hate her voice |
| 21:30.54 | Jayce^ | ~hate lukfugl |
| 21:31.02 | lukfugl | ~hate diane rehm |
| 21:31.09 | elg | i think she has the same thing scott adams has |
| 21:31.27 | lukfugl | haven't ever heard scott adams' voice |
| 21:31.42 | elg | me either |
| 21:31.47 | elg | but he has the same thing |
| 21:32.00 | elg | some thing where you can't speak, but can do public speaking or sing just fine |
| 21:32.21 | elg | limited success (weird sounding) if you get botox injections to your throat or something |
| 21:32.25 | elg | which is why she speaks weird |
| 21:34.47 | elg | tensai: so did she die or something? |
| 21:34.48 | tensai | elg: not dead, just retired. I think |
| 21:34.53 | elg | oic |
| 21:35.10 | tensai | ~wiki diane rehm |
| 21:36.05 | tensai | In 1998, Rehm's voice gained a distinctive warble due to her developing the neurological disorder spasmodic dysphonia (SD) |
| 21:36.28 | tene | ~wiki spasmodic dysphonia |
| 21:36.48 | tensai | hmm. maybe her show is still on. |
| 21:37.13 | *** join/#utah thaddeusq (n=thaddeus@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com) |
| 22:05.35 | *** join/#utah tuple (n=fugalh@216.31.27.110) |
| 22:18.49 | nick125_lappy | Ugh.....stupid package |
| 22:18.51 | nick125_lappy | *packages |
| 22:19.13 | nick125_lappy | these two packages (one depends on another) keep wanting to pull in two different gnupg versions inside the same version slot |
| 22:26.03 | nick125_lappy | Wow ... |
| 22:26.03 | nick125_lappy | http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/07/03/15/1224256.shtml |
| 22:39.45 | *** join/#utah Sargun (n=xbmodder@atarack/staff/sargun) |
| 22:39.47 | Sargun | Hey all! |
| 22:39.50 | Sargun | Guess what? |
| 22:39.55 | Sargun | I'm officially a student of BYU! |
| 22:40.12 | findlay | haha |
| 22:40.20 | findlay | really? |
| 22:40.30 | findlay | how'd you do that? |
| 22:40.58 | findlay | it's not April 1st yet Sargun |
| 22:45.34 | Sargun | findlay, Online classes. |
| 22:45.35 | Sargun | :-) |
| 22:50.03 | levi | Sargun: Why'd you pick BYU online classes? |
| 22:50.41 | Sargun | levi, They were inexpensive, easy, and had a relatively sane interface online. |
| 22:50.49 | Sargun | None of this "blackboard" crap. |
| 22:51.16 | Sargun | $115 for each class per semester isn't bad |
| 22:51.23 | findlay | heh, BYU has blackboard lurking in the more sidious shadows of the IT infrastructure |
| 22:51.28 | levi | Huh, interesting. |
| 22:51.38 | Sargun | Have any of you taken BYU online classes? |
| 22:51.42 | findlay | just like everybody else |
| 22:52.17 | findlay | it's like windows. It's epidemic is universal and it's pall second nature |
| 22:56.41 | levi | Blackboard has been at BYU for years now. |
| 22:56.55 | levi | Though they may not have chosen to use it for the online classes. |
| 23:02.34 | *** join/#utah sontek (n=sontek@208-47-173-164.dia.static.qwest.net) |
| 23:15.33 | Sargun | levi, Well, you are not forced to, certain classes take advantage of blackboard. |
| 23:15.48 | *** part/#utah harleypig (n=harleypi@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 23:23.00 | *** join/#utah harleypig (n=harleypi@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 23:23.54 | *** part/#utah harleypig (n=harleypi@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 23:28.34 | findlay | ~date |
| 23:28.48 | ibot | It is now 2007.03.15 23:28:48 GMT |
| 23:34.15 | *** join/#utah lukfugl (n=lukfugl@dsl092-197-124.sea1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
