| 00:14.31 | elg | -lart lukfugl |
| 00:15.46 | vontrapp | that cameras thing is like Prey |
| 00:15.57 | elg | but bigger :) |
| 00:15.58 | vontrapp | omg, little mechanical bugs are gonna eat us! |
| 00:16.17 | elg | why would they eat us? we probably taste terrible |
| 00:16.19 | elg | to them |
| 00:16.25 | elg | no, they'll just enslave us |
| 00:16.35 | elg | but they'll start with the technophobes |
| 00:16.58 | elg | it'll be up to us to save humanity. or maybe just go to mars |
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| 01:48.17 | elg | -chat |
| 01:48.23 | brac | could be. |
| 01:49.46 | vontrapp | -chat |
| 01:49.51 | brac | ...but foo20 is already playing :D |
| 01:56.10 | elg | only a bot would think that was funny |
| 01:56.26 | elg | brac is punning. oh my. what have we done? |
| 01:56.26 | brac | beats me |
| 02:13.00 | thesuperbigfrog | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-KWYYIY4jQ |
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| 02:26.06 | mheath | thesuperbigfrog, thanks, that was awesome. |
| 02:26.14 | elg | hehe |
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| 02:35.37 | elg | bye brac |
| 02:35.59 | tene | aww... it came back.. :( |
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| 03:55.36 | levi_home | Good evening. |
| 04:04.54 | elg | it would be better if my new kernel didn't freeze up for no apparent reason :) |
| 04:12.19 | levi_home | 3 gigabit? |
| 04:12.31 | levi_home | Is that the new SATA speed? |
| 04:12.36 | elg | yeah, there's old SATA which is 1.5 gbit, and new SATA which is 3gbit |
| 04:12.42 | levi_home | Ahh, okay. |
| 04:12.49 | levi_home | I wonder what I've got in my system. |
| 04:12.57 | elg | in actuality I don't think the drives can quite match 3gbit yet, but they come close enough to be better than 1.5 |
| 04:13.21 | elg | i was absolutely amazed at how much snappier my first SATA system was, and it is 1.5gbit |
| 04:13.33 | levi_home | Yeah, me too. |
| 04:13.36 | elg | this computer is still IDE, so it'll be a night and day difference |
| 04:14.17 | elg | the dutch oven bread turned out very well |
| 04:14.27 | levi_home | Where'd you get the dutch oven? |
| 04:14.33 | elg | borrowed from the bishop |
| 04:14.39 | levi_home | Oh, nice. |
| 04:14.52 | levi_home | So you just do a boule under it? |
| 04:15.32 | elg | yeah. 1.5 lb loaf, 66% hydration, 500°F, 20 minutes lid on, 10 lid off |
| 04:15.38 | elg | preheated dutch oven |
| 04:15.53 | elg | plenty of room for a loaf that size in a #10 (I think that means 10 inches) |
| 04:16.18 | elg | "carefully plop" the boule in :) |
| 04:17.07 | elg | nice crispy artisan crust with great color |
| 04:17.23 | levi_home | Ah, so it's in the dutch oven, not on a baking stone under it. |
| 04:18.08 | elg | yeah, I took my tiles out of the oven to be as much like joe sixpack as possible |
| 04:18.38 | elg | -chat |
| 04:18.39 | brac | And the food Network. Emeril really is no one come to tea] |
| 04:19.05 | elg | wow, emeril is the absence of tea bibbers. who would have guessed? |
| 04:22.27 | elg | as a bonus, it's much easier to take the lid off a 500° dutch oven than to take a 500° dutch oven off a baking stone |
| 04:22.33 | elg | or any other clochish thing |
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| 04:43.55 | elg | new mexico today passed a indoor clean air act |
| 04:44.15 | elg | public places, restaurants, bars, etc. no smoking |
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| 04:49.56 | tensai | elg: ooh, that's nice. can you convince wyoming to do the same? |
| 04:51.10 | elg | i'll use my psychic powers |
| 04:51.58 | elg | sorry, can't. the cows are against it |
| 04:54.59 | nick125_lappy | This is so funny. My friend thinks I'm playing burnout with him. I just put a rubber band around the controller trigger :D |
| 05:02.12 | brailsmt | nick125_lappy: sounds like dumb game design... :) |
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| 05:15.36 | nick125_lappy | brailsmt: It's probably better then some game logic engines out there |
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| 05:44.57 | macnewbold | ~yow |
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| 08:12.19 | tene | Hmm. Lots of spelling errors on openclue today. |
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| 14:16.35 | elg | so I tried to get my kernel working last night and failed. it's hard to see what is the problem, doubly hard as it's the tv not a monitor, but I think it has to do with the initrd messing up finding partitions. fsck fails on all the various partitions |
| 14:16.52 | elg | i compiled the same kernel version with the same config, so it must be the initrd |
| 14:17.15 | elg | but what could an initrd mess up? is it somehow doing the old /dev/ide/... names and not /dev/hda*? |
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| 14:55.56 | atoponce | lol |
| 14:56.13 | atoponce | you can't create a folder called 'con' on the windows desktop |
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| 15:02.04 | QBFreak | atoponce: con is a system device in windows |
| 15:02.46 | QBFreak | leftover from the DOS days |
| 15:03.11 | QBFreak | there are a couple of others but I've forgotten what they are |
| 15:03.40 | QBFreak | before there was 'type' (essentially cat), you did fun things like 'copy file.txt con' to dump it |
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| 15:22.29 | ^Migs^ | how do I download a file from the interweb via an ssh command line? |
| 15:22.41 | levi | wget or curl |
| 15:22.54 | atoponce | scp, if you have an ssh accont, and know the path to the file |
| 15:22.56 | graphyx | lynx works as well |
| 15:23.38 | atoponce | 'scp user@server.com:/path/to/file.txt /path/to/copy/to.txt' |
| 15:23.39 | levi | By 'ssh command line' I assume you mean a command line on a remote unixoid system which you reached via ssh. |
| 15:24.14 | levi | If, instead, you mean a command for a local unix machine that uses ssh to transfer, then what atoponce is saying. |
| 15:24.44 | ^Migs^ | yeah, sorry |
| 15:27.44 | levi | So what did you want to know? |
| 15:28.13 | levi | By your vagueness and lack of further response, I am left to assume that one of us answered your question. |
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| 15:28.38 | elg | up to 90 today. ick |
| 15:28.52 | lukfugl | nice spring weather here in UV |
| 15:29.02 | levi | UV? |
| 15:29.04 | lukfugl | for the next 2 days at least... then summer starts |
| 15:29.09 | lukfugl | Utah Valley |
| 15:29.14 | levi | Ahh. |
| 15:29.14 | elg | happy valley I think he means :) |
| 15:29.41 | levi | Highs in the mid 60s here, apparently. |
| 15:30.14 | elg | it was nice on the way here |
| 15:30.19 | elg | and when I go home about 7 it'll be nice again |
| 15:30.27 | elg | so it's not too bad :-) |
| 15:30.47 | levi | Yeah. The only part I don't like about summer weather is when I want to go for a bike ride at lunch. |
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| 15:38.31 | elg | there's lots I don't like about summer weather. sitting in my house sweating rivers with the swamp cooler on and wearing next to nothing comes up pretty close to the top |
| 15:39.14 | elg | give me spring/fall all year round. that would be awesome :) |
| 15:40.35 | lukfugl | amen |
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| 15:41.02 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 15:41.04 | levi | I guess electricity bills for the A/C would count up there in things I don't like about summer, too. |
| 15:41.40 | elg | yeah, that too |
| 15:42.11 | elg | and burning yourself on your own car |
| 15:42.28 | lukfugl | w00t, I've won the Ontario lottery! |
| 15:42.39 | elg | -lart lukfugl |
| 15:42.46 | lukfugl | too bad I don't remember entering ... now how am I supposed to find the ticket? |
| 15:42.54 | elg | click on the link |
| 15:42.56 | bonez39 | comcast finally hooked up my yesterday... Should I be able to just plug my Cisco 678 into the ethernet port on the cable modem and have my network operate as usual, without too much fiddling? |
| 15:42.59 | elg | they have an electronic version |
| 15:43.14 | elg | bonez39: you shouldn't need the cisco |
| 15:43.37 | elg | though you _could_ use it as a router if you needed, it wouldn't be a whole lot of use as it doesn't give you any more ports |
| 15:43.59 | elg | and you probably don't need a real router within your lan |
| 15:44.42 | bonez39 | elg, it is routing for me now....routes port 22 to my linux box..... |
| 15:45.34 | elg | did you have dsl before? |
| 15:46.10 | levi | elg: The default Comcast cable modem doesn't have a router in it these days. |
| 15:46.45 | elg | so is it just a switch? are you just on a big lan with your neighbors then? |
| 15:46.47 | vontrapp | haha, this sticker on a car window, "Audio will not work if removed" |
| 15:46.49 | levi | elg: So if you plug it into your LAN, the first system to request a DHCP address wins. |
| 15:46.49 | bonez39 | yeah, I am on dsl now...not running on comcast yet.... |
| 15:46.57 | bonez39 | no neighbor lan..... |
| 15:47.28 | bonez39 | I run my own lan...it's just two pc's but if I hook up with arrivaltel...I'll run another machine with asterisk...... |
| 15:47.37 | elg | i see. so you could use your 678 as a gateway if you wanted, or you could use a linux box with two NICs |
| 15:47.45 | elg | or a wireless router or whatever |
| 15:47.54 | elg | but I doubt the 678 will work without reconfiguration |
| 15:47.55 | levi | A two-nic box would work. |
| 15:48.09 | bonez39 | elg, so I should have comcast flip the switch and plug the cisco in..and see what I get... |
| 15:48.27 | levi | I recommend the buffalo wireless router that elg recommended to me. $40, and it runs openWRT. |
| 15:48.28 | elg | i'm quite sure it won't work |
| 15:48.49 | elg | i'm trying to remember exactly which ports the 678 has |
| 15:48.56 | elg | you have your phone line port, which will do no good |
| 15:49.01 | elg | does it have two ethernet ports? |
| 15:49.32 | elg | do you have a switch or a hub for your lan, or is it something smarter |
| 15:50.10 | bonez39 | the cable modem has power, usb and one ethernet port... |
| 15:51.04 | elg | yeah, won't really do the trick. how do your two boxes hook into the cisco? |
| 15:51.19 | bonez39 | currently my dsl signal from qwest comes into my cisco...which is then hooked to an old but trusted Ocean 8 port ethernet concentrator...linux box has a static IP....inside .. and windows is dhcp .. |
| 15:51.45 | bonez39 | two boxes plug into the concentrator..... as also the cisco... |
| 15:51.59 | bonez39 | and also my linksys voip ATA |
| 15:52.06 | elg | so a hub. ok. I'm with levi, get that buffalo router and then you can sell the cisco for at least as much as you spent on the buffalo (or keep it if you think you might go back to dsl) |
| 15:52.08 | levi | bonez39: Does the cisco have at least 2 ethernet ports? |
| 15:52.25 | levi | If it does not, it will be useless. |
| 15:53.19 | elg | well mostly useless. you could set up your lan boxes with static IPs and use the cisco as a router on a stick, but you'd have to know the cisco's address ahead of time and you'd still be on the same broadcast domain as your neighbors |
| 15:53.19 | bonez39 | levi, the cisco has Phone, Wall, Ethernet, and Management... only one ether port |
| 15:53.34 | levi | bonez39: It will be useless then. |
| 15:54.01 | elg | bonez39: either a router or another nic for your linux box |
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| 15:54.28 | levi | Its function is to route between 'Phone' and 'Ethernet'. You need something that routes from 'Ethernet 1' to 'Ethernet 2'. |
| 15:54.28 | bonez39 | how will I be on the same broadcast domain as my neighbors...would that be true, if they are only in the same building, or if they are in the house next door, or how about down the street? |
| 15:55.02 | elg | however their network is setup, don't know. probably a neighborhood scope |
| 15:55.59 | elg | http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16833162173 |
| 15:56.03 | elg | that's the one right levi? |
| 15:56.15 | levi | The cable modem is essentially a translator from ethernet to whatever protocol they run over the coax cable. |
| 15:56.50 | elg | unless your cable modem is already a router |
| 15:56.55 | elg | how many ethernet ports does it have? |
| 15:57.05 | elg | and what model is it? |
| 15:57.19 | levi | elg: I think so. |
| 15:57.23 | elg | does it have a wireless antenna? |
| 15:57.28 | levi | Yes. |
| 15:57.34 | elg | no I mean his cable modem |
| 15:57.39 | levi | Oh. |
| 15:58.14 | levi | It's just got 1 ethernet port, 1 coax port, and 1 usb port. |
| 15:58.22 | levi | (mine also has a phone port, for the phone service) |
| 15:58.40 | levi | But there's absolutely no configuration that can be done. |
| 15:58.41 | elg | i've seen some that are wireless routers |
| 15:58.59 | elg | is it an option, or does it just depend on the cable company? |
| 15:59.02 | levi | I think that now they give you a separate wireless router if you sign up for their home networking service. |
| 16:04.22 | levi | That's how things got set up for a friend of mine. |
| 16:04.39 | levi | I'm sure it's cheaper to just get a separate wireless router. |
| 16:06.23 | levi | Heh, another programming.reddit flamewar on macros. |
| 16:08.26 | *** join/#utah beandog (n=sdibb@gentoo/developer/beandog) |
| 16:08.40 | levi | Sparked by an ESR comment about Paul Graham and Python on a Python list. |
| 16:09.33 | lukfugl | Yo. Don't you be dissin' my homeboy Paul. He is flyyyy. |
| 16:09.45 | levi | *sigh* |
| 16:09.53 | lukfugl | (in quotes) |
| 16:10.07 | lukfugl | that's a quote from the ESR email |
| 16:10.36 | levi | Right. |
| 16:10.54 | levi | I have very little respect for ESR. |
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| 16:12.55 | elg | and then sjansen ... oh, hi sjansesn |
| 16:13.32 | sjansen | elg: Don't worry, you can continue to tell the many tales of my greatness. I don't mind. |
| 16:13.37 | levi | I'll bet sjansen is a closet ESR-lover! |
| 16:14.16 | sjansen | Nope, RMS all the way. He had me at the beard. ;-) |
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| 16:16.21 | levi | Here's a more intelligent counterpoint to the dimwit who said CS is dead: http://www.eetimes.com/news/latest/showArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=AVUPWC314LSUUQSNDLSCKHA?articleID=197801653 |
| 16:16.26 | brac | [EETimes.com - Where are the programmers?] |
| 16:16.26 | elg | -lart emcnabb |
| 16:19.20 | elg | "Jobs will go begging in the next few years because we don't have the people willing to take on the field." |
| 16:19.29 | elg | does he mean steve jobs? :) |
| 16:19.34 | elg | anywho, sounds ok by me |
| 16:19.58 | elg | frankly, I think we'll have just as many smart people in CS as before |
| 16:20.02 | sjansen | ~defend emcnabb |
| 16:20.04 | ibot | ACTION jumps in front of emcnabb, taking all insults, violence and anything else negative thrown toward emcnabb so that emcnabb may live on in peace and quiet |
| 16:20.04 | elg | just a lot fewer dumb people |
| 16:21.09 | levi | elg: Yeah, that may indeed be the case, but it's going to really hurt CS departments that rely on enrollment for funding. |
| 16:21.27 | elg | that's a point |
| 16:23.07 | elg | hmm. "Although the language may ease the programming job, it will likely slow system performance if implemented in software alone. Thus, chip makers are exploring ways to add instructions to track memory read-and-write operations in order to avoid collisions in complex transactions." |
| 16:23.22 | elg | that smacks of premature optimization to me |
| 16:23.45 | elg | if it's not going to give you significant speedup even if done in software, it's probably not worth all the trouble |
| 16:23.52 | elg | sure, hardware optimization will eventually be important |
| 16:24.02 | levi | I wouldn't read too much into that. Hennessey and Patterson are not the kind of people to prematurely optimize. |
| 16:24.40 | levi | They're the ones behind the hardware simulator that's talked about in the article. |
| 16:25.25 | levi | And it's all based on FPGAs, so implementing hardware optimizations is really a software task. |
| 16:25.33 | elg | may be |
| 16:26.16 | vontrapp | but intel processors already have ways to track memory read and write operations |
| 16:27.25 | vontrapp | oh wait, your talking in threading, as in a user defined dependency rather than a sequential dependency |
| 16:27.25 | levi | Yes. |
| 16:27.48 | elg | maybe they've already figured out how to do massive concurrency well. but if they haven't, developing hardware for it seems like putting the cart before the horse |
| 16:27.50 | levi | And parallelism REQUIRES hardware support. At least an atomic test-and-set operation. |
| 16:28.08 | lukfugl | http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070314/ap_on_fe_st/driving_unicorn;_ylt=AtiXblnTk.gm.t69qud6lBTMWM0F |
| 16:28.20 | lukfugl | ph34r the unicorns |
| 16:29.01 | levi | elg: The idea of the RAMP project is to create a fairly simple massively parallel system on a fairly cheap FPGA. It gives a platform to do research with massive concurrency on. |
| 16:30.58 | elg | maybe I'm biased because I'm studying for a midterm in a simluation class :) |
| 16:31.12 | levi | elg: Heh. |
| 16:31.20 | levi | elg: Are you familiar with FPGAs? |
| 16:31.28 | elg | maybe they've already simulated and it's promising enough to go ahead. that's cool |
| 16:34.56 | levi | Perhaps I'm misunderstanding what you mean by simulation, but I don't see how building a system for a simulator is any easier than building a system to put into an FPGA. |
| 16:37.06 | rsimpkins | ~lart Novell |
| 16:37.34 | rsimpkins | http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/0,1000000121,39286295,00.htm |
| 16:37.36 | brac | [Novell approves 'Windows cheaper than Linux' statement - ZDNet UK] |
| 16:37.36 | elg | perhaps I don't understand fpga's very well |
| 16:37.45 | levi | This interview with Patterson & Hennessy has more information about RAMP and why they're doing it: http://acmqueue.com/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=445 |
| 16:39.31 | levi | elg: a FPGA is basically a chip that contains a mesh that can be reconfigured to any combination of logic gates on the fly. So you do a circuit design and instead of sending it out to a fab shop to have it turned into an ASIC, you plug your FPGA programmer in and voila! You have a working chip in a couple of seconds. |
| 16:39.55 | elg | but you still have to design a circuit |
| 16:40.19 | levi | Yes, but if you're just hooking a bunch of simple CPU cores together, that's not very difficult. |
| 16:40.42 | levi | There are open source CPU core designs on the net, and open source busses, etc. |
| 16:41.14 | rsimpkins | Seems to be a 'fun' hobby, but I bet it isn't very useful for any real work. |
| 16:41.25 | levi | rsimpkins: It's incredibly useful for all sorts of real work. |
| 16:41.36 | rsimpkins | levi: Compared to ASIC? |
| 16:42.37 | levi | rsimpkins: Yes. FPGAs are dirt cheap, ASICs are very expensive unless you have a HUGE lot to build. |
| 16:42.37 | levi | And once you finalize your design that you've prototyped with FPGAs, you can get a speed boost by switching to an ASIC. |
| 16:43.26 | levi | rsimpkins: A lot of products aren't speed-limited by the FPGA, so they just ship with FPGAs. |
| 16:43.45 | harleypig | manuh manuh ... di doo di do do |
| 16:44.13 | elg | ~snowth harleypig |
| 16:44.42 | harleypig | snowth? |
| 16:44.42 | elg | they're the backup singers, iirc |
| 16:44.45 | harleypig | ah |
| 16:45.49 | elg | http://www.lib.umd.edu/digital/henson/video.jsp?pid=umd:1021 |
| 16:46.08 | elg | a pair of Snowth singing a tune that a hippie muppet disrupts, insisting on his own mahnamahna harmony; |
| 16:46.11 | elg | </quote> |
| 16:46.53 | levi | rsimpkins: Because FPGAs can be reprogrammed on the fly, people are currently building FPGA job accelerator cards for high performance computing. You can create custom pseudo-hardware for your critical calculations, program the FPGAs with it, and offload your calculations from the CPU to the accelerator. |
| 16:47.16 | harleypig | elg: "Videos can only be viewed from public computers at these locations" ... none of which I am at. |
| 16:47.38 | elg | i can't view it either |
| 16:49.24 | levi | Anyway, designing circuits these days is typically done in VHDL or... hmm, I forget what the other language is called. But they're essentially programming languages for hardware. |
| 16:49.36 | elg | VLSA? |
| 16:49.57 | elg | harleypig: http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.fakebands.com/graphics/mahnamahna.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.fakebands.com/fakeband_m.html&h=145&w=270&sz=22&hl=en&start=4&tbnid=8kdyM7AE0iThVM:&tbnh=61&tbnw=113&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dsnowth%26gbv%3D2%26svnum%3D50%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG |
| 16:50.05 | levi | Ahh, it's called Verilog. |
| 16:50.15 | elg | fakebands.com isn't coming up for me, but there's the thumbnail. on the left, a snowth |
| 16:50.25 | elg | on the right, Sr. Mahna |
| 16:50.56 | levi | VLSI is a kind of chip. I don't think VLSA stands for anything computer-related. |
| 16:51.36 | elg | there we go: http://chanohack.vox.com/library/photo/6a00c22527dee2f21900c22527e131604a.html |
| 16:53.26 | elg | and if you ever see that song labeled as "Animal and the Muppets" you've come across someone very stupid |
| 16:53.31 | elg | here's the google video. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-420704147183134962 |
| 16:53.36 | elg | does that look like animal to you? |
| 16:53.57 | levi | Reading more about RAMP, it seems that they are indeed using pre-built CPU cores. |
| 16:54.57 | levi | Their first primary target core is the Leon3, which is an LGPL SPARC core. |
| 16:55.15 | harleypig | Maybe a prototype, but the character is completely different. |
| 16:55.18 | levi | It runs Linux. |
| 16:55.59 | elg | prototype? animal was already alive and well |
| 16:57.19 | harleypig | well, you asked if he looked like animal ... |
| 16:57.20 | *** join/#utah redbeard1 (n=redbeard@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 16:57.25 | elg | :) |
| 16:57.46 | elg | the "animal and the muppets" bit is a napster casualty |
| 16:58.07 | harleypig | ok ... thanks for the link .. .now I've yak shaved somehow into Darth Vader on a blind date. |
| 16:58.16 | elg | hehe |
| 16:58.17 | lukfugl | lol |
| 16:58.39 | lukfugl | doesn't yak shaving require that it be at least *remotely* related to real work? :) |
| 17:00.00 | elg | he might have been working when the song came on |
| 17:00.04 | elg | maybe |
| 17:01.09 | harleypig | I thought it was just that you started from somewhere and ended up in a totally unrelated place, while having gone logically step by step. |
| 17:02.53 | harleypig | Speaking of unrelatedness; I had to wipe my firefox folder and now I'm installing add-ons. |
| 17:03.04 | harleypig | Anyone familiar with BlueOrganizer and is it worth installing? |
| 17:03.11 | levi | This document describes the RAMP project framework, which apparently includes a simulator as well as the FPGA stuff: http://ramp.eecs.berkeley.edu/Publications/RAMP%20Documentation.pdf |
| 17:05.52 | elg | "Yak shaving is a neologism which describes the act of performing seemingly unrelated and often annoying tasks which stand in the way of an ultimate goal. Often these tasks stack up on each other, where one task becomes impossible due to some obstacle, which leads to another unrelated task, yet another obstacle, and so on." |
| 17:06.45 | elg | so supposedly it's yak shaving if the initial task in the chain had to do with work somehow |
| 17:07.47 | harleypig | I don't see that ... although I guess what I ended up doing wasn't yak shaving. |
| 17:08.00 | harleypig | An ultimate goal doesn't have to be work related. |
| 17:08.11 | elg | well yes |
| 17:08.22 | harleypig | I could be trying to get a game working. |
| 17:08.26 | elg | but we assumed that part since it's during work hours :) |
| 17:08.37 | harleypig | ASS/U/MED :> |
| 17:08.39 | elg | you could have just been trying to enjoy the song :) |
| 17:16.53 | harleypig | true |
| 17:19.12 | ^Migs^ | I can't believe I didn't know about wget or curl |
| 17:21.42 | levi | I can't believe you didn't know about them either. |
| 17:21.55 | levi | My faith in your awesomeness has been shaken. |
| 17:23.05 | Jayce^ | levi: Error: Can't call method 'shake' on undefined value! |
| 17:23.33 | levi | Jayce^: Does his awesomeness need to really exist for me to have faith in it? :P |
| 17:25.22 | *** join/#utah linuxalien (i=UNKNOWN@oalug/member/linuxalien) |
| 17:25.53 | *** join/#utah Zelut (n=Zelut@ubuntu/member/zelut) |
| 17:45.31 | tristanbob_ | http://virtualbox.org/wiki/Changelog |
| 17:45.34 | tristanbob_ | new version out today |
| 17:46.01 | tristanbob_ | biggest improvement for me is ctr-alt-fn# is now supported with hostkey-fn# |
| 17:46.17 | tristanbob_ | so you can get to console screens if needed |
| 17:46.32 | tristanbob_ | oh and networking improvements |
| 17:55.33 | elg | how does it compare to other virtualization stuff? like vmware, xen, etc. |
| 17:57.17 | sjansen | elg: Well, I can't find any way to do ctr-alt-fn# with VMWare. |
| 17:58.50 | elg | are you serious? |
| 18:00.54 | elg | i don't remember that being an issue. it's not in the os x version, but I only have a windows vm on my linux box |
| 18:01.00 | elg | does linux intercept it? |
| 18:01.26 | *** join/#utah vontrapp_ (n=von@72.8.105.222) |
| 18:01.33 | elg | -lart vontrapp_ |
| 18:02.38 | *** part/#utah linuxalien (i=UNKNOWN@oalug/member/linuxalien) |
| 18:06.02 | lukfugl | he exploded |
| 18:15.59 | Lone_Wanderer | -lart brac |
| 18:16.07 | Lone_Wanderer | -lart ibot |
| 18:16.11 | Lone_Wanderer | ~lart brac |
| 18:16.43 | Lone_Wanderer | That's the best lart ever. What are you going to do? They're KITTENS. |
| 18:17.24 | beandog | http://spaceparanoids.org/img/kitten-0day.jpg |
| 18:18.29 | elg | ~cook kittens |
| 18:18.37 | ibot | ACTION throws kittens in a big pan with veggies inside and cooks kittens on 350 for an hour |
| 18:19.17 | levi | sjansen: ctr-alt-fn# works for me in vmware. |
| 18:19.24 | beandog | http://spaceparanoids.org/img/freecat.jpg |
| 18:19.28 | beandog | ^^ my absolute favorite |
| 18:20.05 | QBFreak | I don't know whats up with this laptop, when it does start it is usually after doing something strange like trying to start it upside down, or sideways |
| 18:20.29 | QBFreak | I tore it completly apart and put it back together to rule out loose connections, still doing it |
| 18:24.38 | QBFreak | it is showing signs of trauma, the right hinge cover is cracked, the right edge of the keyboard is mangled, and two of the plastic LED guides are missing |
| 18:24.44 | brac | it is that the bugs have been several in the name |
| 18:24.54 | sjansen | levi: Are you running fullscreen or in a window? VMWare Server or Player? Did you have to do anything special? |
| 18:25.26 | levi | sjansen: I was running VMWare Server on Windows, with Linux as a guest. It was in a window, not full-screen. |
| 18:25.41 | sjansen | Running it on Windows doesn't count. |
| 18:26.32 | ^Migs^ | I'm going to install VMWare on windows, run Linux, and install VMWare on the VMWared Linux |
| 18:26.33 | sjansen | VMWare on Linux needs a hostkey-fn# solution like VirtualBox apparently now has. |
| 18:27.17 | QBFreak | actually I'm running it in Reality :) |
| 18:27.47 | ^Migs^ | I could run Windows on Linux on Windows |
| 18:31.22 | ^Migs^ | why didn't I think about this before? |
| 18:31.29 | ^Migs^ | hmmm, I'm going to need a pretty high-end box for this |
| 18:38.40 | ^Migs^ | wtf? How did popcorn get in my CPU tower? |
| 18:46.08 | QBFreak | ^Migs^: got kids? |
| 18:46.21 | ^Migs^ | I'm at work |
| 18:47.25 | QBFreak | boss got kids? :) |
| 18:51.01 | ^Migs^ | maybe it's all the popcorn I'm eating |
| 18:55.50 | maquis | how do i change the number/order of screens in screen? |
| 19:07.09 | wps | what's the difference between yum update and yum upgrade? |
| 19:07.28 | maquis | hmmm |
| 19:07.56 | maquis | in apt-get it's the difference between updating the cached list of packages and actually upgrading the packages on your system, i believe |
| 19:08.38 | wps | upgrade seems to be downloading and installing |
| 19:08.41 | *** join/#utah vontrapp (n=von@host-118.pl107906.fiber.net) |
| 19:09.34 | QBFreak | wps: don't hold me to it, but I think I read they are aliases for eachother |
| 19:09.48 | QBFreak | well, one an alias for the other |
| 19:10.25 | QBFreak | "upgrade Is the same as the update command with the --obsoletes flag set. See update for more details." |
| 19:10.37 | wps | ah… yes… was just reading that QBFreak |
| 19:11.55 | tensai | so the power has been flickering on and off causing my ups to beep like mad |
| 19:12.19 | tensai | turns out there's a loose connection on the power pole just where the line drops off to go to my building |
| 19:12.34 | tensai | every time the wind kicks up it shorts out and make a big spark |
| 19:12.55 | tensai | good thing it's right next to a tree though |
| 19:17.53 | tensai | ~lart atoponce |
| 19:18.10 | atoponce | ibot: that wasn't very nice |
| 19:18.44 | atoponce | 'tis interesting to see what irc client everyone is running |
| 19:18.48 | atoponce | especially tene |
| 19:19.07 | atoponce | 13:09 [freenode] CTCP VERSION reply from tene: The Best Client Ever!!! OMGTJ!!! It even has lasers and a cdrom drive and guitar inputs and a gold-plated diamon cupholder!!!! |
| 19:19.18 | atoponce | diamon even |
| 19:19.40 | graphyx | but does it go to 11? |
| 19:20.14 | atoponce | lol |
| 19:23.28 | tene | graphyx: of course. |
| 19:27.46 | QBFreak | tensai: throw some water on it just in case |
| 19:30.40 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@dhcp08.cs.nmsu.edu) |
| 19:33.10 | elg | hmm. front page on NYT is a story about "Wives Burdened by Ex-NFL Players' Dementia" |
| 19:37.10 | lukfugl | is it common for American housewives to believe they are Ex-NFL Players? |
| 19:39.44 | elg | hehe |
| 19:39.56 | elg | it's about the husbands getting dementia |
| 19:40.09 | lukfugl | I figured :) |
| 19:40.19 | levi | Gee, football is bad for you? Could cause problems later in life? |
| 19:40.42 | levi | Next you're going to tell me boxing could cause problems. :P |
| 19:40.50 | *** join/#utah nick125_lappy (n=nick@nat.nick125.com) |
| 19:41.04 | tene | http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/14/world/asia/14whaling.html?_r=1&oref=slogin -- odd |
| 19:41.09 | brac | [Whaling: A Japanese Obsession With American Roots - New York Times] |
| 19:41.20 | elg | "Although both the league and the players union are quick to deny any connection between someone's having played football and later cognitive failure..." |
| 19:42.04 | elg | they go on and don't finish the thought. they just say "comes at a time of heightened scrutiny on the effects of brain injuries among football players |
| 19:42.37 | elg | either it's news (wives struggle because football players get dementia) or a nonsequitir, like "Paintball players struggle with worn out pants" |
| 19:43.02 | elg | if football players don't get dementia more often, then why the front page (even on a slow news day) article about it? silly reporters |
| 19:43.48 | levi | Football is an American institution! Why do you hate freedom, elg? |
| 19:44.12 | elg | I don't hate freedom. I like that some people are free to knock themselves upside the head 20 times a week |
| 19:44.19 | elg | I also like that I never played football :) |
| 19:46.44 | levi | I just figured that they didn't want to seem TOO critical of football. Pulled some punches for the sake of irrational football fans, or something. |
| 19:47.56 | elg | it's also funny that they don't even bring up the subject until the second page (page C-15) |
| 19:48.17 | elg | before that it's just assumed that you know the probability of a football player getting dementia |
| 19:48.50 | lukfugl | P(Dementia(X) | PlaysFootball(X)) = 0.624 |
| 19:49.26 | elg | kind of like P(RSI|Emacs) |
| 19:49.45 | *** join/#utah TimRiker (n=timr@216.49.181.128) |
| 19:49.45 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 19:49.46 | lukfugl | think of the pinkies! |
| 19:50.45 | redbeard1 | the pinkies? |
| 19:51.38 | lukfugl | reaching down for those all to frequent <C-*> combinations |
| 19:52.03 | *** join/#utah nick125_1appy (n=nick@nat.nick125.com) |
| 19:52.20 | vontrapp | is that the probability that someone plays football OR has dimentia? |
| 19:52.47 | lukfugl | P(A | B) is generally read as "probability of A given B" |
| 19:52.53 | brac | P(A | B) is generally backwards-compatible. |
| 19:52.53 | vontrapp | oh |
| 19:53.01 | lukfugl | shut up, brac |
| 19:53.09 | vontrapp | thanks brac |
| 19:53.28 | elg | -chat |
| 19:53.29 | brac | who wants to try changing the extern to static in ctypes.h the compile no longer led then to deploy at work over X-Forwarding |
| 19:53.42 | acrid | real emacs users just swap ctrl and caps ;) |
| 19:54.07 | lukfugl | but what if your caps is already mapped to Esc? :) |
| 19:54.31 | vontrapp | not that i use emacs... |
| 19:54.44 | lukfugl | you were about to get kicked out of the fugal club, vontrapp |
| 19:55.27 | vontrapp | i can still reach every left-hand key with the left hand whilst holding ctrl |
| 19:55.36 | vontrapp | with the left hand |
| 19:55.37 | acrid | lukfugl: isn't that a vimism? I suspect that any attempt at a vim/emacs hybrid would give you bigger problems than a sore pinky ;) |
| 19:55.46 | lukfugl | heh |
| 19:55.52 | lukfugl | true |
| 19:57.14 | levi | emacs users who reach down for ctrl are asking for it. Ctrl belongs to the left of 'A'. |
| 19:57.29 | vontrapp | gah, there's always a stupid java help session in this room when i come here to program between classes |
| 19:57.56 | levi | When I used vim, I always used ^[ instead of hitting ESC. |
| 19:58.10 | levi | I should say when I use vim, since I still use it. |
| 19:58.54 | vontrapp | when i try to use [ IT JUST TURNS ON CAPS LOCK BECAUSE I DON'T HAVE IT MAPPED :( |
| 19:59.23 | levi | Well, whose fault is that? |
| 19:59.30 | vontrapp | windows |
| 19:59.38 | levi | I remapped it in windows. |
| 20:00.05 | vontrapp | than no more windows |
| 20:00.09 | QBFreak | levi: I use ^[ too, never figured out how I learned that, for a long time I didn't even know it was ESC |
| 20:00.29 | vontrapp | not worth the effort of mapping caps |
| 20:00.45 | QBFreak | the advantage is any windows apps that pop up when using it don't interpret it |
| 20:00.45 | levi | I just don't use lab computers. |
| 20:00.53 | QBFreak | and its just easier to reach :) |
| 20:01.10 | levi | QBFreak: It's even easier if you have capslock properly remapped to ctrl. |
| 20:01.49 | vontrapp | seriously, just use the bottom knuckle of your pinky, it will change your life |
| 20:02.01 | QBFreak | levi: I'm too young to do that |
| 20:02.04 | vontrapp | until you get on a laptop, then you're screwed |
| 20:02.44 | levi | QBFreak: I started remapping when I got a laptop that put ctrl in a funny place. |
| 20:02.59 | levi | QBFreak: Capslock is always in the right place, and it's a better place to begin with. |
| 20:03.05 | QBFreak | mine is bottom-left, one key in (Fn on the corner) |
| 20:03.15 | vontrapp | still drags my other fingers |
| 20:03.23 | QBFreak | vontrapp: its right next to a, just strech a finger |
| 20:03.30 | acrid | caps for control puts in on the home row |
| 20:03.30 | vontrapp | funny enough, tab is easier for me to reach than caps |
| 20:03.44 | QBFreak | tab I have to shift my hand for, but not bad |
| 20:03.49 | levi | QBFreak: Yes, and I'd frequently hit Fn instead of Ctrl. |
| 20:04.09 | QBFreak | I got used to it |
| 20:04.17 | levi | vontrapp: Capslock is closer to A than Enter is to ; |
| 20:04.23 | QBFreak | besides, this is running windows so... |
| 20:04.49 | levi | QBFreak: Changing the mapping is just a little registry tweak. |
| 20:04.50 | vontrapp | levi: and curse that enter |
| 20:05.04 | QBFreak | registry? only hackers use the registry! |
| 20:05.12 | vontrapp | esp when enter invades the space of backslash |
| 20:05.13 | levi | vontrapp: So, as a vim user, how do you hit ESC? |
| 20:05.16 | vontrapp | i hate that! |
| 20:05.27 | levi | That's certainly a reach. |
| 20:05.32 | QBFreak | yeah, L shaped enter is frustrating |
| 20:05.49 | vontrapp | levi: i do, i think i got used to ^[ at one point, but then i reverted |
| 20:05.57 | vontrapp | good thing about esc is there's no way you can miss |
| 20:06.19 | levi | Yeah, but you have to completely remove your hand from the home row. How anti-vim-philosophy is that? |
| 20:06.25 | vontrapp | and you don't have to worry about it breaking any flow, because anytime you hit escape, the next thing you do is wit the right hand |
| 20:07.14 | vontrapp | that's why the home keys are lkjh |
| 20:08.01 | lukfugl | when I hit Esc, it's a wrist pivot, touch down with my middle finger, then pivot right back, so my fingers never get lost |
| 20:08.05 | lukfugl | muscle memory |
| 20:08.16 | vontrapp | a lot of the time i'll type madly for a few lines, then *bam* esc |
| 20:08.30 | vontrapp | it just fits so well with the notion that i accomplished something |
| 20:08.54 | vontrapp | true, it can be a pain on laptops, but that's why my laptop has a full size keyboard :) |
| 20:09.22 | vontrapp | lukfugl: i think that's what i do, too |
| 20:11.26 | vontrapp | the only time i hit f1 is when the laptop is elevated on my lap and slides askew, ruins the muscle mem |
| 20:11.40 | vontrapp | i should disable help on f1 |
| 20:11.54 | vontrapp | anytime i actually _want_ help i use :he |
| 20:12.11 | lukfugl | vontrapp: is e your favorite key in the world, too? (after j and k). it's what I always use to move quickly through a line horizontally |
| 20:12.15 | vontrapp | -chat |
| 20:12.16 | brac | seeing why endbeforehexten=yes didn't work quite right |
| 20:12.35 | vontrapp | lukfugl: i need to develop that more |
| 20:12.58 | *** join/#utah bonez39 (n=bonez@drjones.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 20:13.03 | vontrapp | i also need more practice with 0 and $ |
| 20:13.04 | lukfugl | don't tell me you use h and l to scan horizontally ... they're just for tuning horizontal position :) |
| 20:13.42 | *** join/#utah Zelut (n=christer@ubuntu/member/zelut) |
| 20:13.47 | lukfugl | I've switched from $ to A+Esc. don't know why, it's impure and not very efficient. my fingers just seem to like it better |
| 20:13.54 | ^Migs^ | http://www.mydeathspace.com |
| 20:14.02 | vontrapp | lukfugl: don't be silly, i use the mouse to move |
| 20:14.05 | vontrapp | :p |
| 20:14.15 | lukfugl | *hisS* |
| 20:14.25 | vontrapp | j/k |
| 20:14.46 | vontrapp | lukfugl: i use AEsc and IEsc as well |
| 20:15.02 | vontrapp | but it's error prone :( |
| 20:15.44 | vontrapp | and sometimes when i actually want to insert text at I or A, i press esc out of habbit |
| 20:15.48 | Lone_Wanderer | vontrapp: Hear, hear. I like vim 'cause it means I get to hit ESC now and then, which is a sort of unofficial declaration that Progress Has Been Made. |
| 20:15.55 | vontrapp | which is bad |
| 20:16.31 | vontrapp | Lone_Wanderer: feels good, don't it? |
| 20:16.42 | Lone_Wanderer | Yep. |
| 20:17.47 | vontrapp | speaking of VIm, stuart is presenting tomorrow at uug on VIm |
| 20:18.14 | vontrapp | come n00bs and pr0s |
| 20:18.28 | atoponce | i find myself pressing esc in editors out of sheer habit |
| 20:18.47 | vontrapp | atoponce: yeah, like browser text areas :/ |
| 20:19.16 | atoponce | well, it's text editors with ctrl-s that get me. |
| 20:19.26 | atoponce | 'esc' ':w' |
| 20:19.31 | bonez39 | anyone here running a linksys RT31P2 ? |
| 20:19.44 | vontrapp | sometimes i'll hit kkkddGp before i realize i'm not in vim |
| 20:19.47 | lukfugl | there have been times (I think it was ICQ on windows) where Esc closed the chat window. that as *BAD* |
| 20:21.06 | lukfugl | type some text, see a typo, hit Esc to go back and fix, whoops! |
| 20:21.11 | vontrapp | well it gets rid of the typo |
| 20:22.00 | levi | elg: I found some more information about the stuff mentioned in that eetimes article. They have indeed already done simulation, but running it on the FPGA system lets them run it 100x faster, so it's actually usable. |
| 20:22.40 | vontrapp | taht makes sense |
| 20:23.49 | levi | elg: So, while you can prove the concept with the simulator, you can't effectively run a full software stack and benchmarks. The FPGA system lets you do that, even though it's ~20x slower than real hardware would be. |
| 20:23.56 | elg | levi: cool. i never said simulation would be usable. just a good way to make sure it's worth doing the hardware work |
| 20:24.43 | levi | The nice thing about the hardware is that it's totally reconfigurable, and it can leverage open source hardware designs. |
| 20:25.20 | elg | yeah, that's slick stuff |
| 20:26.08 | levi | http://www.hpcwire.com/hpc/1288079.html |
| 20:26.10 | tene | lukfugl: I have that problem with ctrl+w and gtk apps |
| 20:26.33 | tene | mistype a word, ctrl+w to delete the last word, the window or tab disappears |
| 20:26.41 | vontrapp | tene: you try to switch windows with ^w or something? |
| 20:27.03 | vontrapp | oh blech |
| 20:27.05 | vontrapp | ~flog tene |
| 20:27.11 | ibot | ACTION grabs a large padded bat and starts beating tene |
| 20:27.29 | lukfugl | flogging++ |
| 20:27.31 | vontrapp | doesn't flogging refer to whips? |
| 20:28.00 | lukfugl | if you're on windows: <C-shift-left arrow>+delete |
| 20:28.06 | tensai | tene: I do that too. luckily evolution will ask if I want to cancel my email and I quickly say "no" |
| 20:28.12 | atoponce | i thought they were bamboo poles |
| 20:28.32 | tensai | atoponce: you're thinking of caning |
| 20:28.43 | atoponce | tensai: ahh. that's right. thx |
| 20:28.53 | tensai | ~cane atoponce |
| 20:29.29 | atoponce | ~whip tensai |
| 20:29.30 | ibot | ACTION takes tensai outside to be thoroughly whipped by atoponce |
| 20:29.37 | vontrapp | or punji stakes |
| 20:30.32 | levi | Anyway, it seems clear that parallel algorithms and such will be an in-demand research area for a while. |
| 20:30.47 | tensai | ~cane $foo is <action> takes $foo out back for 40 lashes with a bamboo pole |
| 20:30.49 | ibot | okay, tensai |
| 20:31.03 | elg | levi: yes, it does |
| 20:31.37 | elg | and the implications in the languages we use, and the new languages that will have to be born, looks very interesting |
| 20:32.04 | levi | Yeah. It's going to mean REAL change in the software landscape again. It's exciting. |
| 20:32.17 | *** join/#utah neybar (n=jalance@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 20:32.17 | levi | Things have been stagnant for a long time. |
| 20:32.55 | tene | levi: what sort of change are you referring to? |
| 20:33.18 | *** join/#utah brasto (n=brasto@71-219-154-236.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 20:33.18 | elg | extinction of unicorns and trolls |
| 20:33.24 | *** part/#utah brasto (n=brasto@71-219-154-236.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 20:33.30 | QBFreak | $0.23? |
| 20:33.35 | Jayce^ | would be nice, they keep digging up my back yard |
| 20:33.51 | vontrapp | tene, not a diaper change |
| 20:33.59 | levi | tene: The processing speed of individual cores has essentially topped out. Explicit parallelism is the only way forward, but current software is not parallelizable. |
| 20:34.04 | elg | Jayce^: I thought those were your kids |
| 20:34.07 | vontrapp | go back to your blocks |
| 20:34.53 | elg | -lart vontrapp |
| 20:34.54 | tene | Seems to be some interesting progress in that area in the Perl 6 community |
| 20:36.17 | levi | tene: Yes, parallelism has been creeping slowly into languages, but not on the scale that will become necessary soon. |
| 20:37.03 | levi | Haskell, and by extension, pugs, are certainly ahead of the curve. |
| 20:37.34 | ^Migs^ | I just got a free diet coke! The vending machine guy handed me a bottle, asked me if it tastes funny, I tasted, said no, so he said, "K, it's yours" |
| 20:37.44 | levi | But I don't think today's Haskell programs will scale to a 128-core system. |
| 20:38.06 | vontrapp | you can keep your diet crap |
| 20:38.12 | tene | Been reading about Haskell lately. Looking to start playing with it in the next few weeks. |
| 20:38.13 | graphyx | ^Migs^: I would have suspected that it all tastes funny |
| 20:38.19 | levi | ^Migs^: How does it feel to be a guinea pig to test for possibly bad soda? |
| 20:38.46 | ^Migs^ | I don't mind |
| 20:39.02 | ^Migs^ | just happy to help |
| 20:39.16 | vontrapp | great, now i need a soda, but ther'e s no DP on campus :( |
| 20:39.38 | vontrapp | thx, migs |
| 20:39.42 | tene | I have plenty of soda at my office. |
| 20:39.48 | tene | No DP, though. |
| 20:39.53 | lukfugl | ick, DP is the nasty. only soda nastier is MD |
| 20:40.09 | graphyx | I try to not drink soda at all |
| 20:40.13 | tene | MD is what we usually have here. |
| 20:40.17 | ^Migs^ | I've seriously cut back on my soda consumption |
| 20:40.24 | graphyx | its bad for your cardiovascular system |
| 20:40.36 | ^Migs^ | I used to drink nearly a whole 2-liter bottle a day. Now I barely drink a 12-oz can, if even that |
| 20:40.38 | vontrapp | DP with an infusion of bargs |
| 20:40.40 | vontrapp | mmmm |
| 20:40.50 | tene | I usually don't drink any except when I have trouble waking up. Once every week or two. |
| 20:41.02 | graphyx | ^Migs^: did you ever get withdrawl shakes? |
| 20:41.10 | levi | I'm in a high-soda-consumption phase right now. I go in cycles. |
| 20:41.16 | tene | lukfugl: what do you like? |
| 20:41.24 | brac | what do you think peruvians had sourdough? I could have done that |
| 20:41.24 | ^Migs^ | well, not shakes, but I had withdrawals |
| 20:41.35 | ^Migs^ | mostly just insanely tired all the time for about 2 weeks |
| 20:41.48 | ^Migs^ | I actually tried getting off soda COMPLETELY, but after 2 weeks I said "screw this, I can have some soda" |
| 20:42.22 | ^Migs^ | actually this soda does taste a little funny |
| 20:42.38 | vontrapp | dude, diet always tastes funny |
| 20:42.55 | lukfugl | tene: root beer, fruit sodas (orange, strawberry, grape). if cola's all that's available, coke |
| 20:43.28 | graphyx | I am not an addict because I am actively choosing to continue unlike those other people who just can't quit. |
| 20:43.30 | vontrapp | Squirt! |
| 20:43.38 | vontrapp | that's good stuff |
| 20:43.39 | lukfugl | mm, grapefruit soda of any sort |
| 20:43.41 | levi | Squirt is good stuff. |
| 20:44.08 | nick125_1appy | Anyone here have a zoom x5 ADSL modem? |
| 20:44.20 | ^Migs^ | actually this soda tastes kinda nasty |
| 20:50.11 | ^Migs^ | to me the taste difference between diet and regular isn't significant enough to warrant all the extra calories |
| 20:50.24 | ^Migs^ | I normally drink the generic Wal-Mart diet soda that only costs half as much |
| 20:50.30 | ^Migs^ | the difference in taste is negligible there, too |
| 20:50.42 | tene | I don't really see the point of drinking something with no calories, personally. |
| 20:50.48 | QBFreak | diet? naasty stuff |
| 20:50.57 | tene | What are you ddrinking it for, then? |
| 20:51.13 | QBFreak | \work |
| 20:51.17 | QBFreak | laters |
| 20:58.31 | sjansen | http://spaceparanoids.org/img/wwuddsc00658_lg.jpg |
| 20:59.06 | harleypig | sjansen: you are a sick sick man |
| 20:59.45 | sjansen | harleypig: So I shouldn't mention I was changing your onjoin to "What would a unicorn do?" |
| 20:59.58 | harleypig | Although, since its on beandog's site ... |
| 21:00.05 | harleypig | heh |
| 21:00.14 | harleypig | ~onjoin harleypig |
| 21:00.15 | ibot | onjoin for harleypig set by redbeard1 on Thu Mar 8 14:36:28 2007: "Oh, bother" said Pooh as he buried Piglet's body. |
| 21:00.37 | redbeard1 | that's a good one |
| 21:02.20 | elg | ~pi |
| 21:02.21 | ibot | extra, extra, read all about it, pi is ... |
| 21:02.33 | elg | uh-huh. |
| 21:03.14 | sjansen | In honor of Pi day, our boss bought us pie. How cool is that? Doesn't it make you wish you worked for Guru Labs? We're hiring, you know... |
| 21:03.40 | tene | no you aren't. |
| 21:03.44 | tene | That's a filthy communist lie. |
| 21:04.46 | sjansen | ~silence tene |
| 21:04.47 | ibot | ACTION shoves an apple in tene's mouth, shoves a spit through ... well, uhm, anyway ... then builds a nice fire and starts roasting |
| 21:04.50 | sjansen | ~disappear tene |
| 21:04.53 | sjansen | ~erase tene |
| 21:05.06 | harleypig | ~modify sjansen |
| 21:05.16 | harleypig | ~pontificate sjansen |
| 21:05.18 | sjansen | tene? No, I don't remember ever knowing anyone named tene... Have you been taking your meds? |
| 21:06.38 | sjansen | harleypig: Don't make me create a MySpace page for you and fill it with unicorns and ponies. 'Cause I will, so help me! |
| 21:07.01 | tensai | ponies are teh awesome! |
| 21:07.13 | harleypig | All pink and sky blue? |
| 21:07.17 | *** join/#utah bonez39 (n=bonez@c-71-195-250-0.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 21:07.18 | harleypig | with clouds even? |
| 21:08.22 | Jayce^ | harleypig, on the rainbow course :) |
| 21:12.05 | sjansen | http://www.eff.org/news/archives/2007_03.php#005161 <-- EFF forces man to tattoo scarlet "A" on forehead as part of settlement. |
| 21:12.26 | sjansen | Man, that makes me want to make another donation to the EFF. |
| 21:12.32 | brac | that makes me wanna punch the screen and f1 to continue." |
| 21:12.46 | lukfugl | brac, chill out |
| 21:15.12 | Lone_Wanderer | This has got to be a joke. The guy's name is Crook. |
| 21:17.28 | tene | "In addition to ..., Crook has also agreed to limit future DMCA notices to [those that make sense and are legal]." |
| 21:17.49 | tene | Since when is "agreeing to follow the law in the future" part of an agreement? |
| 21:18.01 | Lone_Wanderer | Waaait... |
| 21:18.23 | Lone_Wanderer | I don't see anything in here about tattooing anything, in any color, onto anyone... |
| 21:18.49 | *** join/#utah FallenAngel2 (n=chatzill@151.80.4.157) |
| 21:19.30 | lukfugl | that's just sjansen with more of his propaganda |
| 21:19.51 | *** join/#utah zerdith (n=zerdith@66-188-62-36.dhcp.bycy.mi.charter.com) |
| 21:35.04 | sjansen | tene: The fact that he has to include a link to the EFF's information on this case in future DMCA take down notices. |
| 21:35.38 | tene | sjansen: yes, that's interesting, but the "I won't send anymore illegal notices" part is weird. |
| 21:35.39 | sjansen | "All future notices must also include a link to EFF information on his case, as well as the settlement agreement. Crook has also recorded a video statement to apologize and publicize the dangers of abusing copyright law." |
| 21:36.01 | sjansen | tene: sorry |
| 21:36.07 | sjansen | lukfugl: take that! |
| 21:36.09 | tene | Is "Don't murder anymore" part of a judgement in a murder trial? |
| 21:46.17 | *** join/#utah mgeary (n=mgeary@166.70.44.49) |
| 21:46.20 | mgeary | hi folks |
| 21:46.43 | sjansen | ~greet mgeary |
| 21:46.55 | ibot | ACTION dumps a bucket of cold oatmeal on mgeary |
| 21:47.38 | mgeary | we're looking for an entry-level designer/html person. Anyone know someone like that looking for their first/second real job? |
| 21:48.53 | tene | mgeary: possibly. give me more information. |
| 21:50.55 | mgeary | tene: probably full-time, if not, then with the prospect of going full-time. It'd be in a (very) small development shop in Orem. The work would be dealing with Photoshop and HTML, creating and manipulating HTML templates. Other responsibilities would come with time |
| 21:52.01 | mgeary | it'd be a very good learning opportunity for someone interested in increasing their skills and understanding of internet technologies, but at least *some* proficiency with HTML (no hand-coding required) would be preferable |
| 21:54.39 | mgeary | tene: comments? questions? |
| 21:55.35 | tene | give me an email address. I'll pass it on if I find anyone interested. |
| 21:56.24 | mgeary | michael.geary at treelinegroup dot com |
| 21:57.32 | tene | send me all that stuff in a PM so I can easily find it later. |
| 21:58.10 | mgeary | will do |
| 21:58.16 | findlay | hello |
| 22:06.16 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@216.31.27.110) |
| 22:07.49 | findlay | can windows 32-bit run on a 64 bit CPU? |
| 22:08.52 | findlay | anybody know? Should I stay away from 64 bit CPU's? |
| 22:10.14 | vontrapp | findlay: yes and yes |
| 22:10.15 | tene | findlay: 32-bit can run on 64-bit cpus |
| 22:10.21 | vontrapp | well, 64 bit is cool and all |
| 22:11.14 | findlay | ok, well, if it doesn't work then I'm throwing back 16 broken bits each at vontrapp and tene :) |
| 22:11.16 | vontrapp | but what i didn't know before i got mine was that the amd64 and the like are just an extension on the same ol' cluttered borked x86 architecture, so really nothing new and exciting about them except the simple fact they are 64 bit |
| 22:11.24 | findlay | yup |
| 22:11.51 | vontrapp | but yes, it runs win32 |
| 22:11.55 | findlay | isn't it interesting that that is the most prolific consumer grade hardware? |
| 22:12.04 | findlay | kind of like the most prolific consumer grade OS? |
| 22:12.08 | vontrapp | in fact, i don't think mine even came with a 64bit version of windows |
| 22:16.32 | sjansen | Unless you're building a server, there's no point in springing extra for 64bits. |
| 22:17.06 | sjansen | Now, most of the 64bit chips spank their 32bit cousins on speed tests... but you can usually get full speed using 32bit code. |
| 22:17.20 | findlay | but it's kind of hard to avoid the extra bits in the AMD lines these days |
| 22:17.28 | sjansen | And for anything other than 64bit Linux server use, 32bit software will give you less trouble. |
| 22:18.16 | findlay | s/AMD lines/AMD product lines/ |
| 22:18.33 | sjansen | Linux has been 64bit on the server for ages and is pretty mature. Frankly, I'd avoid even 64bit Windows on the server a little longer. It should be much more mature in a year or so. |
| 22:19.05 | tristanbob_ | this is a good topic - i am wondering about installing 64-bit OS on my core 2 due laptop |
| 22:19.06 | findlay | it depresses me that I'm buying this hardware knowing that windows is going to be slapped on it |
| 22:19.10 | findlay | by me :( |
| 22:19.51 | sjansen | 64bit desktop Linux or Windows? Save yourself the hassle, stick with 32bit until some other poor schmuck^? early adopter identifies all the problems. |
| 22:20.18 | findlay | tristanbob_: it will make a difference if you have more memory than is addressable with a 32 bit pointer :) |
| 22:20.56 | tristanbob_ | 64 ubuntu - but I think I will go with 32 bit |
| 22:21.23 | sjansen | I ran 64bit Linux on my laptop 2 years ago. Gentoo, Ubuntu, SUSE and Fedora. Of those, Fedora was the best, SUSE was a hairline behind, Ubuntu was waiting for Debian to solve their problems, and Gentoo was punting like Debian. |
| 22:22.09 | beandog | punting? |
| 22:22.21 | sjansen | tristanbob_: Good choice. Ubuntu is still waiting for Debian to solve the whole mixed 64/32 environment. Until that's solved, you'll actually need two installs, one chrooted in the other. |
| 22:23.08 | sjansen | Red Hat and Novell already support mixed binaries. Debian chose to support pure 64 or pure 32 as a stepping stone to mixed. I have no idea where Gentoo is now. |
| 22:23.19 | beandog | were doing pretty darn good |
| 22:23.39 | beandog | got a lot of pre-compiled 32-bit stuff. |
| 22:23.39 | sjansen | beandog: By "punting" I mean choosing to go "pure" versus "mixed". |
| 22:23.52 | beandog | sjansen: Im still not following .. |
| 22:24.07 | beandog | you mean x86 vs amd64? |
| 22:24.24 | beandog | You could just run x86 on the amd64 box. Thats what I do at work. |
| 22:25.03 | sjansen | Two years ago, although it was possible to install and use some 32bit code on a 64bit install, if it required anything other than core pre-compiled libraries you were better off just creating a 32bit chroot. |
| 22:25.31 | beandog | well what 32 bit code are we talking about |
| 22:25.38 | sjansen | Because building 32bit apps on a 64bit install was a real hassle, and IIRC, not officially supported. |
| 22:25.43 | beandog | I guess thats probably wehre it matters |
| 22:25.51 | beandog | really? huh. boy things have changed, then. |
| 22:26.19 | beandog | http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/base/amd64/emul/content.xml |
| 22:26.55 | beandog | I only started working on amd64 a few months ago, I have no idea what it was like before |
| 22:27.00 | sjansen | It's not an impossible problem to solve. I'd have been surprised if Gentoo didn't have it worked out by now. As for Debian... I'd only be surprised if it moved quickly and hit deadlines. |
| 22:27.56 | sjansen | My point, however, is that even with a well integrated 64/32 bit disto, 64 was a hassle. |
| 22:28.54 | beandog | hmm |
| 22:29.14 | beandog | I still recommend just running x86 on it. Its not like youll have huge performance hits. |
| 22:29.23 | beandog | And you sidestep any of the issues anywya. |
| 22:29.26 | beandog | anyway |
| 22:29.42 | sjansen | Proprietary codecs and drivers were often only available for 32bit environments. OSS build scripts assumed that 64bit chip == 64bit build and didn't make it easy to do a 32bit build. 64bit desktop apps were less tested. |
| 22:30.09 | beandog | Ah |
| 22:30.14 | beandog | well, we have mplayer-bin, as far as codecs go |
| 22:30.19 | *** join/#utah zerdith (n=zerdith@66-188-62-36.dhcp.bycy.mi.charter.com) |
| 22:30.24 | beandog | plus there are (some) 64 bit binary codecs as well |
| 22:30.36 | beandog | as far as drivers, ive never run into that problem myself |
| 22:30.40 | sjansen | beandog: I'm not talking about just Gentoo anymore. I'm talking about 64bit Linux in general now. |
| 22:30.45 | beandog | ah |
| 22:30.47 | goozbach | FYI RHEL 5 Really likes my 64bit Xeon chips |
| 22:31.10 | goozbach | works marvelously on my Dell PowerEdge 2950s |
| 22:31.21 | sjansen | If I were building a Linux server today, I'd only use 64bit chips. |
| 22:31.56 | sjansen | If I were buying a Linux laptop/desktop, I'd buy 64bit chips but use 32bit software. |
| 22:32.35 | goozbach | speaking of building a linux server, i'm looking for decent, affordable, 2u rackmount chassis/barebones. Any sugestions? |
| 22:32.56 | beandog | are there even 64 bit ports of other linux distros? |
| 22:34.17 | *** join/#utah nick125_lappy (n=nick@nat.nick125.com) |
| 22:36.32 | sjansen | All of the major distros: RHEL/Fedora, SLES/OpenSUSE, Debian/Ubuntu, Gentoo |
| 22:38.29 | beandog | huh |
| 22:38.30 | beandog | thats cool. |
| 22:43.06 | elg | hrm? |
| 22:43.27 | *** join/#utah nick125_1appy (n=nick@nat.nick125.com) |
| 22:44.58 | elg | -lart vontrapp |
| 23:02.16 | findlay | will a Semron work in a board advertized to work only with Athlons? |
| 23:02.29 | findlay | s/Semron/Sempron/ |
| 23:03.25 | findlay | or am I being paranoid? |
| 23:03.53 | nick125_1appy | findlay: It should... |
| 23:04.11 | nick125_1appy | Unless its an utterly stupid board |
| 23:04.25 | *** join/#utah redbeard2 (n=redbeard@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 23:04.33 | redbeard2 | heya |
| 23:06.12 | elg | * findlay is so newb |
| 23:06.57 | *** join/#utah brac (n=rbot@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 23:12.37 | findlay | ~newb elg |
| 23:13.51 | tene | http://tinyurl.com/2zcsyr |
| 23:14.27 | lukfugl | mb * tsp / sec? |
| 23:14.42 | lukfugl | what's the mb unit? |
| 23:14.58 | tene | millibars, actually |
| 23:15.01 | lukfugl | ah |
| 23:15.07 | tene | but to most people online it looks like "megabytes" |
| 23:15.11 | lukfugl | yeah :) |
| 23:19.37 | nick125_1appy | Is it bad when Qwest asks me what's wrong with my line and how to fix it? |
| 23:20.39 | elg | only if you don't know the answer |
| 23:21.16 | nick125_1appy | I had a qwest rep actually ask me what was wrong with my line and how to fix it....................... |
| 23:21.23 | brac | I had with jabberd is synchronization of buddy authorization. I really hope I can, because you're busy being trained. |
| 23:23.50 | elg | well, my kernel recognizes my drive now |
| 23:24.00 | elg | now I just have to decide how to partition my 320GB. I hate this part |
| 23:24.24 | elg | LVM or no? more partitions or fewer? which filesystems? |
| 23:24.27 | elg | i hate those questions |
| 23:24.36 | nick125_1appy | LVM2 is nice..... |
| 23:24.49 | nick125_1appy | LVM2 + ext3 |
| 23:25.11 | nick125_1appy | That's what I've been using here for ages (recently, raid1+lvm2+ext3) |
| 23:31.17 | beandog | well, no, I just hate the b0rken documentation. |
| 23:31.31 | nick125_1appy | LVM documentation sucks |
| 23:33.06 | elg | this system has lvm |
| 23:33.13 | elg | but I've never really used it |
| 23:33.14 | elg | I did once |
| 23:33.27 | elg | it's just such a pain to do anything because you have to go figure out how to do it |
| 23:33.35 | elg | so you just delete some files instead and deal with it |
| 23:33.48 | elg | plus xfs, my preferred filesystem, doesn't shrink |
| 23:34.22 | *** join/#utah bonez39 (n=bonez@c-71-195-250-0.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 23:34.45 | elg | so there's not much wiggle room (even if the smaller volumes are ext3 or something) |
| 23:39.14 | findlay | ugh |
| 23:39.21 | findlay | I hate windows |
| 23:39.27 | Lone_Wanderer | ~lart windows |
| 23:39.42 | findlay | I just can't bring myself to buy a windows license |
| 23:39.56 | findlay | even if it's not for me |
| 23:39.57 | Lone_Wanderer | The word of the day is Jimlad. |
| 23:40.37 | synic | nick125: you there? or nick125_1appy |
| 23:40.40 | findlay | is there a way to get a bulk discount with windows licenses? |
| 23:41.11 | nick125_1appy | synic: I'm here |
| 23:41.13 | Lone_Wanderer | Has anyone heard that word before? It refers to what the guy in Treasure Island called Jim. |
| 23:41.28 | synic | nick125_1appy: did you find out how long you can cache amazon images? |
| 23:42.25 | nick125_1appy | synic: I think its 1 motnh |
| 23:42.29 | nick125_1appy | *month |
| 23:53.11 | rsimpkins | anyone from United Online around? |
| 23:56.34 | Jayce^ | yes |
