| 00:00.32 | tene | ~spell tragedy |
| 00:01.29 | burnthegreat | ohh man that ibot... so funny |
| 00:03.27 | findlay | ~spell sadflkgjhwlatb |
| 00:04.26 | tene | elg: Perl 6 has very nice functional stuff, very nice concurrency, objects, native unicode, and very nice string processing |
| 00:04.33 | maquis | ~spelld d[r;; |
| 00:04.38 | maquis | ~spell d[r;; |
| 00:05.47 | tene | I quite like the syntax, but I suspect I don't know your definition of "not ugly" |
| 00:06.11 | *** join/#utah beandog_ (n=sdibb@cg.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 00:08.38 | elg | levi: so they are, you're right |
| 00:09.12 | elg | tene: perl6 will definitely be worth a look |
| 00:09.21 | elg | but i'm not going to bother until it's here |
| 00:10.03 | harleypig | Template Toolkit question: Anyone know of a way to force a list context? |
| 00:10.29 | tene | harleypig: why? |
| 00:10.41 | harleypig | I have a method that returns a list normally, but in one case it returns one value. It seems to be forced into a scalar context. |
| 00:10.52 | harleypig | I'm using the table plugin and it's expecting a list. |
| 00:11.33 | harleypig | So, USE table s.states, cols = 3 ... normally states returns a list of states. |
| 00:11.56 | harleypig | But in one situation it returns a single value, which tt seems to be forcing to scalar. |
| 00:12.25 | tene | Huh. |
| 00:13.02 | harleypig | The error log says "[error] plugin error - table plugin failed: invalid table data, expecting a list" |
| 00:13.18 | tene | perhaps surround it with ()? |
| 00:14.46 | harleypig | I've already tried that. The main module is not a plugin. It returns a list of one element (verified by running it separately), the plugin wrapper recieves the data as a list (verified by dumping the value to the log via Data::Dumper). |
| 00:15.02 | harleypig | I wrapped what was returned by the plugin in () and it still gives me that error. |
| 00:16.35 | elg | free chello! |
| 00:17.56 | harleypig | I just tried a virtual method doing the same thing and it didn't make any difference either. |
| 00:21.51 | Lone_Wanderer | woah, nice move goozbach |
| 00:21.55 | Lone_Wanderer | knocked five days off |
| 00:22.05 | Lone_Wanderer | nay, five and a half |
| 00:37.14 | *** part/#utah harleypig (n=harleypi@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 00:51.29 | *** join/#utah eco (n=eco@gnuk.net) |
| 01:00.25 | burnthegreat | what up eco |
| 01:01.00 | eco | I don't know. I never pay attention to this channel. |
| 01:11.17 | beandog_ | 45 min UTC? |
| 01:11.22 | beandog_ | eh? |
| 01:12.48 | mheath | got a good 2.5 hours of study time in tonight |
| 01:13.11 | mheath | I'd meet my minimum weekly hours just doing the minimum daily 2 hours from here until the end the week |
| 01:13.21 | mheath | And I know I'll need more than the minimum 2 hours |
| 01:16.24 | *** join/#utah Zelut (n=christer@ubuntu/member/zelut) |
| 01:28.32 | mheath | It's scary when kids grow up =( |
| 01:28.43 | mheath | My little niece is 8 years old today! |
| 01:39.43 | mheath | And she's starting to show a _hint_ of the preteen oh-my-god-your-so-embarassing syndrome |
| 01:43.39 | *** join/#utah dilvie (n=chatzill@c-67-166-126-133.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 01:44.08 | Sargun | mheath, Heh, what'd she do? |
| 01:44.34 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 01:44.51 | Sargun | uhhh |
| 01:44.56 | dilvie | sure it wasn't a llama? |
| 01:45.14 | mheath | Sargun: Uh, nothing. Just when she's talking to me on the phone, I almost detect a hint of "Why do I have to waste time talking to this guy?" |
| 01:45.44 | Sargun | Aw, too bad. |
| 01:45.57 | mheath | dilvie, Yes, a llama. Those responsible for the moose comment have been sacked. |
| 01:46.07 | Sargun | At least she hasn't turned into MySpace-mongering socially obsessed preteen girl. |
| 01:46.32 | mheath | (If you don't get the movie reference, you either don't pay attention or are severel underpriveleged) |
| 01:46.44 | synic | mheath: I got it, so it wasn't lossed :) |
| 01:47.27 | mheath | Heh, speaking of that.... |
| 01:47.32 | mheath | My brother's name is Brian |
| 01:47.58 | mheath | so as his cell phone message he has a recording "We worship you, O'Brian! Hallowed be thy name..." |
| 01:49.40 | dilvie | I think those responsible for the sackings should be sacked, personally. |
| 01:52.00 | Sargun | who is stupid enough to send logins in clear text |
| 01:52.16 | Sargun | I'll tell you who! |
| 01:52.18 | Sargun | myspace.com |
| 01:53.51 | dilvie | haha |
| 01:54.00 | dilvie | and about 10,000 other websites. |
| 01:55.37 | mheath | Yah, mando PT in the morning! |
| 01:55.49 | mheath | Not really. I think I want to kill something. |
| 01:58.54 | Sargun | email=luckygurl609@aol.com&password=andrew1&ctl00%24Main%24SplashDisplay%24login%24loginbutton.x=0&ctl00%24Main%24SplashDisplay%24login%24loginbutton.y=0 |
| 01:59.01 | Sargun | er, oops, wrong channel! |
| 01:59.02 | Sargun | ignore that! |
| 01:59.11 | burnthegreat | ummmm yeah |
| 01:59.19 | Sargun | haha |
| 01:59.25 | elg | ibot, luckygurl609 is email=luckygurl609@aol.com&password=andrew1&ctl00%24Main%24SplashDisplay%24login%24loginbutton.x=0&ctl00%24Main%24SplashDisplay%24login%24loginbutton.y=0 |
| 01:59.31 | ibot | okay, elg |
| 01:59.33 | Sargun | haha |
| 01:59.45 | Sargun | I doubt anyone knows what that is though |
| 01:59.46 | Sargun | well |
| 01:59.51 | Sargun | considering this is geek-ville |
| 01:59.53 | Sargun | someone migh |
| 01:59.54 | Sargun | t |
| 02:00.00 | elg | i think she might like andrew |
| 02:00.29 | burnthegreat | that lucky gurl |
| 02:00.38 | Sargun | maybe. |
| 02:00.49 | Sargun | http://www.myspace.com/ilikebeingsexy < crappy myspace URL she has. |
| 02:01.25 | Sargun | she is mormon. |
| 02:01.26 | mheath | Because AOL members seem to always use the same passwords. |
| 02:01.29 | Sargun | haha. |
| 02:01.39 | Sargun | I think I just ruined this girls life :-P |
| 02:01.54 | elg | nah, ibot can forget |
| 02:02.00 | elg | ibot, forget luckygurl609 |
| 02:02.00 | ibot | elg: i forgot luckygurl609 |
| 02:02.12 | elg | just hope there's no little girls here |
| 02:02.15 | elg | -lart emcnabb |
| 02:02.41 | Sargun | elg, Well, considering we knows its her myspace password, and she is myspace obsessed... |
| 02:02.58 | Sargun | mheath, Are you actually trying it? |
| 02:03.14 | mheath | Yes. Didn't work. |
| 02:03.23 | burnthegreat | lmao |
| 02:04.08 | Sargun | aw |
| 02:04.16 | Sargun | did you try just plain andrew? |
| 02:04.22 | elg | if she's really myspace obsessed, then her life is already in shambles ;-) |
| 02:04.28 | Sargun | heh |
| 02:04.34 | Sargun | Let me get a few other AOL users |
| 02:04.58 | Sargun | :-P |
| 02:05.30 | Sargun | if anyone else wants accounts |
| 02:05.34 | Sargun | feel free to join #passwords |
| 02:09.08 | mheath | Uh |
| 02:09.14 | mheath | Sargun: I was just joking. |
| 02:09.24 | Sargun | lol |
| 02:09.29 | mheath | I think it's kind of disgusting you're handing out account info from public terminals. |
| 02:09.37 | Sargun | they aren't public |
| 02:09.49 | Sargun | I set up a site that allows people to access myspace |
| 02:10.04 | Sargun | from locations where myspace is filtered |
| 02:10.34 | synic | burnthegreat: yo |
| 02:10.59 | mheath | Sargun: Wow. |
| 02:11.06 | Sargun | And it states |
| 02:11.09 | mheath | You know, theres a term that describes people like you. |
| 02:11.10 | Sargun | that their login will be logged |
| 02:11.12 | Sargun | and shared. |
| 02:11.19 | mheath | "Phising". |
| 02:11.24 | mheath | phishing* |
| 02:12.59 | Sargun | Ah. |
| 02:13.08 | Sargun | No, I don't consider it phishing |
| 02:13.17 | Sargun | because I state that I'm taking their password. |
| 02:13.45 | mheath | Sargun: A lot of phishing sites state that in small print, too. |
| 02:13.55 | Sargun | I state in 12 pt. font |
| 02:14.30 | mheath | So? |
| 02:14.36 | mheath | People are obviously confused by it |
| 02:14.38 | mheath | Because they use it |
| 02:14.42 | Sargun | or they are dumb. |
| 02:14.50 | Sargun | And value myspace over privacy. |
| 02:14.58 | mheath | You are using a website to collect information that a person does not really want you to have. |
| 02:15.08 | mheath | That is the _definition_ of a phishing website. |
| 02:15.17 | Sargun | No, no no. |
| 02:15.22 | Sargun | its a access portal. |
| 02:15.31 | mheath | Yes |
| 02:16.38 | mheath | Just like, I'm sure, http://74.96.130.162:8011/paypal.dolet=verification/index.html was an access portal for Paypal :P |
| 02:16.43 | Sargun | haha |
| 02:16.54 | mheath | Whats the address of your website? |
| 02:17.10 | Sargun | https://xbmodder.us/cgi-bin/nph-proxy.cgi |
| 02:17.14 | Sargun | it should prompt twice |
| 02:17.59 | mheath | Sargun: I went to myspace.com and it said nothing about you logging stuff. |
| 02:19.35 | Sargun | err |
| 02:19.35 | Sargun | https://xbmodder.us/cgi-bin/nph-proxy2.cgi |
| 02:19.40 | Sargun | not 1 |
| 02:19.41 | Sargun | two |
| 02:19.51 | *** join/#utah nick125_ (n=nick@nat.nick125.com) |
| 02:19.55 | Sargun | hi nick125_ |
| 02:20.02 | nick125_ | hiya |
| 02:20.07 | mheath | Your security certificate is out of date. |
| 02:20.16 | Sargun | yes, I know. |
| 02:20.28 | Sargun | Thanks for telling me |
| 02:21.20 | elg | levi_home: ping |
| 02:21.54 | Sargun | mheath, Ok... |
| 02:25.08 | nick125_ | brb |
| 02:25.10 | Sargun | ok |
| 02:27.03 | herlo | UTOSC planning meeting - 5 minutes #utos |
| 02:27.16 | burnthegreat | synic: how is it hanging this evening? |
| 02:27.21 | elg | can we heckle? |
| 02:27.31 | herlo | elg: sure, but you might get heckled back |
| 02:27.47 | synic | burnthegreat: it's meh |
| 02:27.52 | burnthegreat | wrd |
| 02:27.54 | burnthegreat | same here |
| 02:28.13 | burnthegreat | thinking about eating some type of food stuff |
| 02:28.49 | synic | byron hasn't gotten back to me, so I'm just waiting for him. |
| 02:29.22 | burnthegreat | that sounds about right |
| 02:29.34 | burnthegreat | is kel on the other server? |
| 02:30.17 | synic | she just joined, but she hasn't said anything. |
| 02:30.23 | burnthegreat | bah |
| 02:30.24 | brac | she just about to give you all kinds of cool design elements. |
| 02:30.25 | burnthegreat | oh well |
| 02:31.38 | burnthegreat | i kind of feel like a puss for not just ignoring her but I dont want to read about her sexual life atm |
| 02:31.48 | burnthegreat | like last night |
| 02:32.02 | mheath | You know whats stupid |
| 02:32.07 | brac | You know that python can handle |
| 02:32.16 | mheath | Other than python, brac. |
| 02:32.28 | mheath | As stupid and annoying as my homework is |
| 02:32.54 | mheath | It is rediculous that it would be a treasonous act to discuss specific contents of it on here. |
| 02:32.57 | brac | It is yet |
| 02:33.54 | *** join/#utah neybar (n=jalance@209.210.190.233) |
| 02:35.40 | *** join/#utah mrpull_ (n=mrpull@205.158.184.126) |
| 02:52.29 | findlay | ~spell rediculous |
| 03:15.38 | levi_home | elg: pong |
| 03:17.49 | tene | does brac's "random un-requested statement" behavior annoy or bother anyone else? |
| 03:23.11 | *** join/#utah nick125_ (n=nick@nat.nick125.com) |
| 03:27.48 | mheath | tene, Yes. |
| 03:34.15 | *** join/#utah jsmith (n=jsmith@70.5.224.60) |
| 03:45.19 | elg | levi_home: I had a quesiton , but I forgot |
| 03:46.58 | elg | have you read "Why Functional Programming Matters"? |
| 03:47.09 | elg | '87 |
| 03:58.33 | levi_home | elg: I think so, but it's been a while. |
| 04:03.53 | elg | it was informative and simultaneously amusing |
| 04:04.28 | levi_home | How was it amusing? |
| 04:04.43 | elg | the paper is trying to extol the virtues of functional programming and how it's so much better/easier for programmers, while throwing out code like this (with a straight face): |
| 04:04.47 | elg | redtree f g a (node label subtrees) = f label (redtree’ f g a subtrees) |
| 04:04.49 | elg | redtree’ f g a (cons subtree rest) = g (redtree f g a subtree) (redtree’ f g a rest) |
| 04:04.56 | elg | redtree’ f g a nil = a |
| 04:05.26 | elg | no wonder nobody liked functional programming if that's the best they could do |
| 04:05.30 | levi_home | Heh. |
| 04:07.45 | elg | of coures, maybe that was a step up from fortran and cobol. I'm not sure |
| 04:08.44 | levi_home | Well, I think we'd got past fortran and cobol by '84, anyway. |
| 04:09.51 | elg | maybe. but they use a snippet in there that looks like it must be one of those languages |
| 04:09.56 | elg | has line numbers and everything |
| 04:10.08 | elg | or some other dinosaur spaghetti language |
| 04:12.01 | levi_home | Looks like Fortran |
| 04:18.53 | elg | levi_home: do you have the syntax for multiple clause funs? |
| 04:19.10 | levi_home | elg: It's just like multiple-clause functions. |
| 04:20.08 | levi_home | Var = fun ( <args> ) -> <body>; fun ( <args> ) -> <body> end. |
| 04:20.23 | levi_home | Of course, you can insert whatever whitespace you need. |
| 04:20.24 | elg | that's not working for me |
| 04:21.32 | elg | 1> F = fun([]) -> 0; fun([H|T]) -> 1; end. |
| 04:21.32 | elg | ** 1: syntax error before: 'fun' ** |
| 04:21.34 | UtahBot | Sorry, no matches for 1: syntax error before: 'fun' ** on the defenition database. (0.011s) |
| 04:21.47 | elg | UtahBot: you can't spell |
| 04:21.52 | *** join/#utah mrpull- (n=misterpu@mail.pollmann.us) |
| 04:22.41 | levi_home | Oh, whoops, there's only one fun |
| 04:22.57 | levi_home | See section 6.17 in the Erlang Reference Manual |
| 04:24.26 | levi_home | fun (Pattern11,...,Pattern1N) [when GuardSeq1] -> Body1; (PatternK1,...,PatternKN) [when GuardSeqK] -> BodyK end |
| 04:25.14 | levi_home | Sorry about that, I read that part of the doc hastily the first time. |
| 04:25.32 | elg | hmm. how do you do recursion then? |
| 04:25.37 | elg | 2> F = fun([]) -> 0; ([H|T]) -> H+F(T) end. |
| 04:25.37 | elg | ** 1: variable 'F' is unbound ** |
| 04:25.38 | UtahBot | Sorry, no matches for 1: variable 'f' is unbound ** on the defenition database. (0.002s) |
| 04:25.53 | levi_home | You wouldn't, normally. |
| 04:26.04 | levi_home | You could create a Y combinator if you really wanted to. |
| 04:29.58 | elg | i'm wishing there was a way to define functions (even recursive ones) in the shell |
| 04:30.22 | levi_home | distel has something that lets you essentially do that. |
| 04:34.05 | *** join/#utah mrpull-_ (n=misterpu@mail.pollmann.us) |
| 04:40.11 | elg | i can do it in irb too |
| 04:40.44 | elg | i don't see why it shouldn't be doable in erlang, though I suppose the real-world reason is that it was hard or thought unnecessary |
| 04:40.48 | tene | pugs ftw |
| 04:41.16 | levi_home | distel is an emacs mode that hooks to an erlang node and gives you a prompt you can do that stuff at. |
| 04:41.42 | levi_home | tene: Uh, most REPLs let you do that. |
| 04:41.55 | levi_home | But erlang and haskell don't, for some reason. |
| 04:42.01 | tene | that's weird |
| 04:42.11 | elg | prob. because they're old geezers |
| 04:42.41 | levi_home | No, I think there's probably some other reason having to do with the evaluation model or something. |
| 04:45.34 | *** join/#utah neybar (n=jalance@209.210.190.233) |
| 04:54.21 | *** join/#utah harleypig (n=harleypi@160.7.237.70) |
| 04:56.57 | findlay | ibot: what does everything come up if I'm not dead? |
| 05:18.47 | tensai | ~seen graphyx |
| 05:19.04 | ibot | graphyx <n=graphyx@205.208.245.105> was last seen on IRC in channel #utah, 10h 4m 47s ago, saying: '-chat about simple steps'. |
| 05:36.01 | tensai | ~lart maquis |
| 05:36.47 | tene | http://www.conservapedia.com/Unicorn |
| 05:42.04 | findlay | ~ring herlo |
| 05:42.15 | ibot | before herlo dies, they see the ring |
| 05:49.53 | *** join/#utah pmcnabb (n=peter@c-24-10-165-203.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 06:16.06 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 06:17.29 | elg | ~onjoin elg |
| 06:17.30 | ibot | onjoin for elg set by redbeard1 on Mon Mar 5 08:15:03 2007: my sister was bit by a moose once |
| 06:17.32 | *** join/#utah tihocpi (n=tiocpi@143-106.dynamicpool.suu.edu) |
| 06:17.35 | *** join/#utah Newsome (n=sorenson@adsl-75-0-136-70.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net) |
| 06:17.59 | elg | ~onjoin elg A møøse once bit my sister |
| 06:17.59 | ibot | ok, elg |
| 06:18.05 | *** part/#utah elg (n=fugalh@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 06:18.07 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 06:18.38 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 06:20.16 | Newsome | Mynd you, møøse bites Kan be pretty nasti... |
| 06:21.11 | findlay | what does m??se taste like? |
| 06:23.59 | Newsome | møøse is all right for meatloaf, but it's not great...it's like dry beef |
| 06:24.23 | *** join/#utah SpecialK (n=Bob@c-24-10-202-230.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 06:25.32 | findlay | not for desserts or hair I guess |
| 06:29.39 | *** join/#utah xilch (n=xilch@c-24-10-225-124.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 06:44.08 | *** part/#utah xilch (n=xilch@c-24-10-225-124.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 06:59.35 | spr | I like møøse jerky. |
| 07:01.39 | Supaplex | naha-nahnah yesterday! |
| 07:05.51 | findlay | what? Somebody stole it |
| 07:15.02 | Supaplex | I think spr ate it after the møøse jerky. |
| 07:16.44 | findlay | as likely as not |
| 07:18.08 | levi_home | Whee, I finished my virtual machine updates and assembly program. |
| 08:13.47 | findlay | well, my English paper is now mostly done save the works cited page |
| 08:14.15 | levi_home | Woot for findlay! |
| 08:24.28 | findlay | moving from one stressful situation to another really wears on your quality of life |
| 08:25.03 | levi_home | Yup. |
| 08:25.22 | levi_home | Just wait till you get married and have kids! |
| 08:25.38 | findlay | oh joy :) |
| 08:27.04 | findlay | but why must there be stress? I defy it |
| 08:28.17 | levi_home | Life would suck without stress. |
| 08:28.46 | levi_home | It's just when the amount of stress exceeds a certain (somewhat variable) threshold that it gets painful. |
| 08:29.22 | findlay | but it seems most situations want to inflict it upon me out of spite |
| 08:35.44 | levi_home | Any time you get a 'thrill' feeling, that's a form of stress. |
| 08:36.26 | levi_home | Rather, a pleasant reaction to a good form of stress. |
| 08:40.10 | levi_home | Stress is defined by the physiological responses that happen in response to it, and those responses come with both good and bad situations. |
| 08:40.39 | findlay | well, I'm mired in several distressful situations at the present |
| 08:42.28 | levi_home | Said physiological reactions are taxing on the body, whether they are pleasant or not. Too much stress is certainly a bad thing, but so would be the absence of stress. |
| 08:43.04 | levi_home | And certainly the lack of stress response to stressors would be debilitating. |
| 08:49.58 | levi_home | Anyway, time to sleep. |
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| 11:01.47 | *** join/#utah Supaplex (i=supaplex@166-70-62-199.ip.xmission.com) |
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| 13:33.49 | *** join/#utah graphyx (n=graphyx@205.208.245.105) |
| 13:41.16 | graphyx | someone was talking about AI in here yesterday. |
| 13:41.17 | graphyx | http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2007/03/ai_cited_for_un.html |
| 13:41.26 | graphyx | An AI just got fined!! |
| 14:05.51 | redbeard1 | w00t! |
| 14:05.52 | redbeard1 | http://www.deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,660201086,00.html |
| 14:12.00 | redbeard1 | graphyx: i like how it ends with "Ihejirika had a human lawyer for his defense." |
| 14:12.56 | *** join/#utah southsky (n=southsky@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 14:14.44 | goozbach | joe! you're famous again! |
| 14:14.55 | redbeard1 | goozbach: yay! |
| 14:15.05 | jsmith | w00t! |
| 14:18.41 | goozbach | if you kinda think about it, I'm famous too |
| 14:18.51 | goozbach | just off camera, the assistant, |
| 14:19.00 | goozbach | :) |
| 14:21.30 | redbeard1 | goozbach, it's true |
| 14:22.37 | redbeard1 | http://www.boasas.com/ |
| 14:27.25 | redbeard1 | ~lart centon |
| 14:29.06 | *** join/#utah zerdith (n=zerdith@66-188-62-36.dhcp.bycy.mi.charter.com) |
| 14:29.22 | graphyx | redbeard1: nice |
| 14:29.36 | graphyx | Do you do adwords? |
| 14:29.39 | redbeard1 | yup |
| 14:29.44 | redbeard1 | no, wait |
| 14:29.47 | redbeard1 | adsense |
| 14:29.48 | graphyx | Make much for it? |
| 14:29.59 | redbeard1 | close to $0.50/wk |
| 14:30.01 | graphyx | whatever.. :) |
| 14:30.13 | graphyx | .5/wk!!! wow |
| 14:30.18 | graphyx | you are raking it in |
| 14:30.28 | redbeard1 | i know |
| 14:31.25 | graphyx | I bet |
| 14:33.54 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 14:38.31 | *** join/#utah tiwula (n=lane@208.64.90.18.utahbroadband.com) |
| 14:42.14 | herlo | Jayce^: ping |
| 14:42.28 | redbeard1 | i wonder if Jayce^ is still "sick" |
| 14:43.28 | *** join/#utah spr (n=spr@c-71-195-212-252.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 14:43.33 | redbeard1 | ~lart spr |
| 14:50.51 | spr | ~lart redbeard1 |
| 14:51.09 | graphyx | I have a log file and I want to strip off the front pant ending in snort[17501]: of every line. How can I do this is vi? |
| 14:51.23 | graphyx | s/pant/part/ |
| 14:51.51 | spr | :q/snort[17501]/d |
| 14:52.26 | graphyx | didn't like that |
| 14:53.22 | spr | hold on. it's something close to that... |
| 14:54.00 | redbeard1 | :%s/snort[17501]\://g |
| 14:54.11 | spr | that'd work too |
| 14:54.19 | redbeard1 | no, wait... there's text before that too, isn't there? |
| 14:54.30 | redbeard1 | :%s/.*?snort[17501]\://g |
| 14:54.35 | redbeard1 | that might be better |
| 14:54.53 | spr | ah :g/snort[17501\]:/d |
| 14:55.13 | spr | err, the pattern needs to be right of course.. |
| 14:56.06 | redbeard1 | so spr, you still planning on coming over on saturday to help with the cake? |
| 14:56.13 | spr | redbeard1: yep |
| 14:56.19 | redbeard1 | what time? |
| 14:56.26 | graphyx | hmm... it looks right but still missing something |
| 14:56.30 | spr | hm... :g is doing a bit of overkill |
| 14:57.42 | spr | oh well, I'll have to look up those slides again. |
| 14:59.29 | *** join/#utah ^Migs^ (n=migs@205.122.50.69) |
| 14:59.55 | spr | graphyx: use the :s command. :g always will act on the whole line |
| 15:00.05 | graphyx | tryng |
| 15:00.08 | graphyx | trying |
| 15:00.32 | spr | This worked in my test file: |
| 15:00.43 | spr | :%s/snort\17501\]\:// |
| 15:00.50 | graphyx | ok cool |
| 15:01.18 | redbeard1 | oops. yeah, brackets need to be escaped. |
| 15:01.47 | graphyx | sweet that did it |
| 15:01.57 | graphyx | %s/Mar.*snort\[17501\]\:// |
| 15:02.49 | redbeard1 | awesome |
| 15:02.55 | graphyx | Thanks |
| 15:04.32 | goozbach | so, I just remembered why I don't frequent efnet |
| 15:04.41 | goozbach | my brain hurts |
| 15:04.52 | goozbach | or should I say: me brian hertz |
| 15:04.59 | goozbach | dood |
| 15:05.04 | goozbach | fer reals |
| 15:05.22 | ^Migs^ | an annoying coworker just came and dangled a stuffed Taz in my face |
| 15:05.29 | redbeard1 | d00d u r 50 1337 |
| 15:05.32 | ^Migs^ | he had him dangling on a string on the end of a pole. I'm like, wtf? |
| 15:06.16 | goozbach | ^Migs^: taz like the looney toon? |
| 15:06.25 | ^Migs^ | yes |
| 15:06.37 | ^Migs^ | and after that he apparently went off to do it to other people |
| 15:06.46 | *** join/#utah harleypi1 (n=harleypi@160.7.237.70) |
| 15:06.53 | ^Migs^ | I'm going to be annoyed for the rest of the day now. |
| 15:06.57 | *** part/#utah harleypi1 (n=harleypi@160.7.237.70) |
| 15:11.43 | elg | I can tell you're the life of the office |
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| 15:47.12 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
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| 16:21.44 | atoponce | http://digg.com/business_finance/An_Open_Letter_To_Centon_Electronics |
| 16:25.26 | jsmith | atoponce: What, a blog posting wasn't enough?!? |
| 16:25.27 | graphyx | you do a small claims yet? |
| 16:25.38 | atoponce | jsmith: :) |
| 16:25.44 | jsmith | atoponce: I'm sure you could find a lawyer willing to take your case, hoping for class action status |
| 16:25.57 | atoponce | graphyx: no, not yet. i'm smoothing out the details with that |
| 16:26.36 | atoponce | i'm calling them once more, with my post as ammo, to see if it returns my rebate. |
| 16:26.45 | atoponce | otherwise, small claims might be the way to go |
| 16:26.52 | atoponce | problem is, i don't know a good lawyer |
| 16:27.00 | atoponce | or have any lawyer friends |
| 16:27.22 | levi | You usually don't use a lawyer for small claims, IIRC. |
| 16:28.11 | levi | A friend of mine had to take some guy to court when he failed to continue paying for a motorcycle he bought and wrecked. |
| 16:28.35 | jsmith | Yeah, small claims is the easy way to go... no lawyer needed |
| 16:28.51 | levi | It was a world of suck. But it would probably be easier to take a business to court, since they would have a hard time evading court summons and stuff. |
| 16:29.16 | levi | And it's not terribly difficult to figure out how to get money out of them. |
| 16:29.23 | graphyx | jsmith: I am sure he could do the class action suit, but he is hoping for reembursement. not to line a laywers pocket. |
| 16:29.23 | atoponce | well, at this point i'm hoping to put some pression on them through online means, and if that doesn't work, small claims it may be |
| 16:29.33 | atoponce | i just don't think i need to take it to that level. |
| 16:29.47 | atoponce | i should be able to get my money without resorting to legal means |
| 16:29.48 | levi | atoponce: The hassle of small claims court is not worth $90. |
| 16:30.05 | atoponce | levi: that's what i'm thinking |
| 16:30.35 | levi | Continue your online campaign if you wish, but you're best off writing off the $90. |
| 16:30.58 | tensai | graphyx: need some garage door help my man |
| 16:31.03 | graphyx | but perhaps it is worth $90 and the experience of doing it once to know when it is valuable in the future |
| 16:31.04 | atoponce | i've already come to the reality that i'll probably never see thi $90 |
| 16:31.11 | graphyx | tensai: sure, whats up? |
| 16:31.13 | atoponce | s/i /e / |
| 16:31.27 | atoponce | but, i'll keep trying to some extent |
| 16:31.34 | tensai | graphyx: I got the new part, installed it and that seems to have resolved that issue |
| 16:31.45 | graphyx | umm that is all I know |
| 16:31.50 | tensai | graphyx: problem is when I hooked it back up |
| 16:31.56 | graphyx | cause I had to do the same thing |
| 16:32.10 | graphyx | but go on |
| 16:32.33 | tensai | so I put the opener back on the ceiling and hooked the chain up |
| 16:32.59 | tensai | it tries to go down, stops after about a foot, then reverses and stops where it started |
| 16:32.59 | graphyx | I did it without uninstalling the unit |
| 16:33.14 | tensai | oh, well. that might have been a good idea. |
| 16:33.22 | graphyx | sounds like it has its height setting wrong |
| 16:33.42 | graphyx | is there a spot that you can adjust how high/low it moves the door? |
| 16:33.58 | jsmith | Or, how much pressure it senses before it reverses |
| 16:34.00 | tensai | there is. I sorta played with that a little |
| 16:34.16 | *** join/#utah vontrapp (n=von@host-118.pl107906.fiber.net) |
| 16:34.17 | tensai | jsmith: tried that a little too |
| 16:34.26 | tensai | it was getting late last night so I didn't exhaustively debug it |
| 16:34.30 | graphyx | or it might be that the blocking sensor (lights at the bottom of the door making sure there isn't anything in the way) isn't installed properly |
| 16:34.30 | vontrapp | what kind of language can't cast an int to a double |
| 16:34.32 | vontrapp | ? |
| 16:34.54 | graphyx | since you did take it down you had to disconnect that. |
| 16:34.58 | tensai | the door sensor both have green lights on them. if I stand in their path it will flash and reverse. |
| 16:35.04 | graphyx | vontrapp: a bad one? |
| 16:35.21 | vontrapp | well apparently c# can't |
| 16:35.22 | levi | vontrapp: You mean automatically cast an int to a double, or convert it explicitly somehow? |
| 16:35.26 | elg | sigh. |
| 16:35.39 | graphyx | disconnect the door entirely from the chain and see if it will open and close |
| 16:35.48 | tensai | did that. it won't. |
| 16:35.50 | elg | so I have a memory leak in adium. I gather all the info and get the memory leak report, etc. |
| 16:36.05 | graphyx | so it isn't a weight issue |
| 16:36.14 | elg | then go to make myself a stupid account on their trac just so I can post the bug (annoyance number one - need account to post bug) |
| 16:36.20 | elg | and trac is broken |
| 16:36.29 | graphyx | did you see the mechanism that gives it how high to open and close? |
| 16:36.36 | levi | elg: Yuck. |
| 16:36.41 | elg | so I go to IRC and they tell me "yeah, we can't fix trac. sucks for you. go post it on the forum" |
| 16:36.44 | tensai | yes, I remember it |
| 16:36.52 | elg | I am _NOT_ joining yet another stupid forum just so I can post a bug |
| 16:36.58 | graphyx | You understand how it works? |
| 16:37.09 | elg | and they get all self righteous on my for not wanting to join another forum and show me the door |
| 16:37.19 | levi | Heh. |
| 16:37.38 | elg | they apparently have no pride in the software and would rather stroke their pride than get a bug report about a memory leak that pushes virtual memory usage up to 1.5 gigs |
| 16:37.43 | tensai | yeah, I think so. tonight I'll probably take the cover off and watch as it works. |
| 16:37.57 | graphyx | elg: wow, I mean someone is trying to help them and they treat you like paying customers get treated by tech support. |
| 16:38.03 | tensai | elg: you just need more ram |
| 16:38.03 | elg | yup |
| 16:38.06 | graphyx | that is what I would do |
| 16:38.06 | elg | hehe |
| 16:38.10 | levi | When I reported a bug to the Colloquy people on their irc channel, they were pricks, too. No one believed me that it was a bug. |
| 16:38.30 | elg | "look, we don't help people who don't help themselves" |
| 16:38.37 | graphyx | you almost have to have a poc to do it. |
| 16:38.45 | tensai | graphyx: mainly I wanted to hear how you had hooked yours back up, but apparently you didn't so that doesn't help |
| 16:38.48 | graphyx | PoC to prove a bug |
| 16:38.48 | elg | "I'm not trying to help myself. I could just restart adium when it gets to using too much ram. I'm trying to help _you_" |
| 16:39.00 | graphyx | tensai: sorry |
| 16:39.17 | graphyx | like I said that is all I know. I wasn't being humble |
| 16:39.25 | tensai | why do they make those gears out of plastic if it's a known fact that they wear down to easily? |
| 16:39.36 | graphyx | cheap |
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| 16:39.57 | tensai | yeah, I know. stupid though |
| 16:40.23 | graphyx | another thing that you might want to take a look at and I dont know how to do this either... is see if the door springs are pulling their weight or not |
| 16:40.40 | graphyx | cause if they aren't it will wear out that gear even faster |
| 16:41.53 | graphyx | it seems that when they replaced the opener here 8 with a new one they didn't tighten/replace the 25 year old springs and that is what caused a normally good for 10-15 year gear to go bad in 6-7 years |
| 16:43.52 | levi | vontrapp: The C# language spec seems to disagree with you. See section 6.1.2 |
| 16:46.06 | levi | vontrapp: There is an implicit conversion from int to long, float, double, or decimal. |
| 16:46.31 | graphyx | Well since the springs are supposed to handle all but 5-10 pounds the gears would probably last for the life of the rest of the components, but the springs aren't taken care of |
| 16:47.01 | vontrapp | levi: hashmap.Add(key, 0); (double)hashmap[key]; => cast error |
| 16:47.18 | vontrapp | maybe it has something to do with the hashmap, but that's still lame |
| 16:47.56 | vontrapp | those springs scare me |
| 16:48.34 | graphyx | yeah, I am waiting to get someone who knows a little bit more about it than I to help me out on them. |
| 16:48.38 | vontrapp | they could probably slice you to pieces if they broke |
| 16:48.48 | graphyx | exactly |
| 16:48.53 | ^Migs^ | does C# have LinkedHashMaps? |
| 16:48.56 | levi | vontrapp: Perhaps it's autoboxing the int, and the conversions don't work on boxed values. |
| 16:50.09 | vontrapp | iow it's broken |
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| 16:50.30 | graphyx | mine isn't a spring persay, more a wrapped coil |
| 16:51.15 | graphyx | but still a lot more knetic energy than I want to unleash. |
| 16:51.55 | levi | vontrapp: Yes, any primitive types you stick in a hashmap have to be boxed first. |
| 16:52.17 | levi | vontrapp: So you have an Integer object in there, not an int. |
| 16:52.30 | vontrapp | i guess the wrapped nature of the spring would limit it's destructive range on catastrophic failure, but i certainly wouldn't want to be at close quarters fiddling with it |
| 16:52.50 | graphyx | yes |
| 16:53.32 | findlay | so throw a grenade at it and be over with the spring nemesis |
| 16:53.47 | levi | vontrapp: And while you can explicitly or implicitly cast an int to a double, the same can't be said of Integer and Double. |
| 16:54.39 | vontrapp | well i would ask if i can call to_double on said integer object, but first i would have to convince the darn thing it is an integer object in the first place, where it might even be a double object, in which case it should still have a to_double, in which case it should just work, and trust me that it should be able to be a double |
| 16:54.44 | vontrapp | *sigh* |
| 16:54.47 | graphyx | http://www.truetex.com/garage.htm |
| 16:54.52 | graphyx | tensai ^^^ |
| 16:55.23 | levi | vontrapp: Actually, I think it may just be of class 'object', since it seems that's what the autoboxing puts them in. |
| 16:55.58 | vontrapp | well, doesn't (shouldn't) the [] op return the innards of the box anyway? |
| 16:56.04 | tensai | graphyx: we actually just had the springs fixed recently. the mounting bracket split the plank it was attached to. |
| 16:56.33 | tensai | it does seem tensioned correctly. I can easily raise and lower the door manually, and it will stop midway like it's supposed to. |
| 16:57.32 | levi | vontrapp: No, but it seems that you should be able to cast a boxed value to an unboxed value after all. I'm not sure what's going on there, then. |
| 16:58.06 | vontrapp | duck typing is the way of the future, anything less is obsolete |
| 16:58.22 | levi | vontrapp: You might try pulling it out as an int and then casting it to double. |
| 16:58.28 | ^Migs^ | I haven't seen ducks type before |
| 16:58.31 | levi | vontrapp: Or perhaps casting the 0 to double when you put it in. |
| 16:59.01 | vontrapp | yeah, my quick fix was adding 0.0 |
| 16:59.14 | vontrapp | i just didn't bother at first since i need to cast it anyway in the first place |
| 16:59.24 | vontrapp | stupid casting |
| 16:59.59 | maquis | vontrapp: :) |
| 17:00.05 | maquis | been there, done that |
| 17:00.07 | levi | vontrapp: The problem isn't that it's statically typed, it's that it's got an inflexible type system that makes you perform stupid casts like that. |
| 17:01.09 | vontrapp | and get this, sometimes it doesn't compile my changes and leaves me confused as all heck why somethings not working as expected |
| 17:01.43 | levi | Yeah, I won't defend Visual Studio at all. I'm not a fan. |
| 17:01.56 | levi | Apparently a lot of people love it, though. |
| 17:02.10 | vontrapp | my teacher seems to be a fan |
| 17:02.25 | vontrapp | it's too bad, he seems like a real nice guy otherwise |
| 17:03.04 | levi | Anyway, I consider Java and C# fundamentally broken when it comes to their usage of 'primitive' types. |
| 17:03.37 | levi | Even with the autoboxing, which as you've seen, can make it pretty difficult to figure out what's going on. |
| 17:03.44 | southsky | speaking of C: http://worsethanfailure.com/Articles/The_Counter_of_And.aspx |
| 17:03.58 | levi | Let us not speak of C. |
| 17:04.22 | southsky | oh, no. we need to. just once. |
| 17:04.34 | southsky | and of websites written in C. |
| 17:04.56 | vontrapp | is gcal working for anyone? |
| 17:05.17 | elg | no, it's a volunteer |
| 17:07.09 | redbeard1 | http://digg.com/business_finance/An_Open_Letter_To_Centon_Electronics |
| 17:08.23 | levi | Hmm, 6 diggs. That's not going anywhere. |
| 17:08.51 | redbeard1 | well, it would if more people in here would digg it |
| 17:09.07 | levi | I don't do digg. |
| 17:09.20 | vontrapp | elg: who's a volunteer? |
| 17:09.23 | elg | i'd be hypocrite if I did digg after my last post :) |
| 17:09.25 | elg | vontrapp: gcal |
| 17:09.37 | vontrapp | um |
| 17:09.39 | vontrapp | -lart elg |
| 17:09.39 | elg | (since I don't yet have a digg login) |
| 17:10.17 | redbeard1 | levi, i don't normally do digg either, but this is for atoponce |
| 17:12.06 | levi | redbeard1: It's not that I don't normally do digg. I just don't do digg, period. |
| 17:12.06 | redbeard1 | elg, who was "The_Tick"? |
| 17:12.18 | redbeard1 | levi, fair enough |
| 17:14.18 | elg | I should have anonymized him too... to The_Prick |
| 17:14.43 | elg | i don't know other than that he was the guy that talked the most |
| 17:14.56 | elg | and seemed to be in charge-ish, by the way he talked about the website |
| 17:16.02 | vontrapp | "there's a proposed fix, but i won't do it" |
| 17:16.08 | vontrapp | hehe |
| 17:16.26 | elg | and "there's a forum, but I won't join it" :) |
| 17:16.32 | elg | how symmetric |
| 17:16.39 | elg | i didn't even notice |
| 17:17.08 | vontrapp | you should have told him "fix the trac site and i'll join the forum" |
| 17:20.11 | elg | looks like tick is the project manager |
| 17:20.18 | elg | http://trac.adiumx.com/wiki/the_tick |
| 17:24.44 | *** join/#utah wps (n=wps@67.108.236.230) |
| 17:28.00 | tensai | I also shun the digg. I didn't stop reading slashdot just to pick up another filthy habit. |
| 17:28.10 | levi | elg: Looking at that proposed fix, I'm not sure why he's hesitant to apply it. |
| 17:28.37 | elg | honestly I haven't looked at the trac thing. I don't care why trac isn't working |
| 17:29.38 | *** mode/#utah [-ooo maquis ibot Jayce^] by ChanServ |
| 17:30.09 | findlay | ChanServ is on a rampage |
| 17:30.45 | tensai | silar took over chanserv. he's eating all the ops. eek! |
| 17:30.49 | Jayce^ | hrm.. |
| 17:31.01 | Jayce^ | and how did findlay and tensai get ops |
| 17:31.29 | tensai | findlay gave them to me, I think |
| 17:31.51 | findlay | tensai: you were op status long before me |
| 17:31.55 | elg | Jayce^: you're alive! feeling better? |
| 17:31.59 | Jayce^ | a bit.. |
| 17:32.00 | tensai | findlay: what? no... |
| 17:32.04 | findlay | heh |
| 17:32.11 | tensai | hang on, checking my logs |
| 17:32.13 | graphyx | give everyone ops |
| 17:32.13 | Jayce^ | rather weak, but at least in control of functions now :) |
| 17:32.22 | elg | that's always a good start |
| 17:33.05 | graphyx | If you give everyone ops all your wildest dreams will come true! |
| 17:33.13 | tensai | 15:39 -!- mode/#utah [+o findlay] by ChanServ |
| 17:33.13 | tensai | 15:39 < tensai> what? when did we give a nutter like findlay ops? |
| 17:33.13 | tensai | 15:39 < findlay> no kidding |
| 17:33.13 | tensai | 15:39 -!- mode/#utah [+o tensai] by ChanServ |
| 17:33.24 | elg | (like being deopped) |
| 17:33.37 | *** mode/#utah [+o elg] by ChanServ |
| 17:33.54 | *** mode/#utah [-o findlay] by elg |
| 17:33.56 | findlay | tensai: but I didn't grant them to you at that time |
| 17:33.58 | *** mode/#utah [+o Jayce^] by elg |
| 17:34.01 | *** mode/#utah [+o ibot] by elg |
| 17:34.01 | tensai | I just assumed findlay did it |
| 17:34.06 | *** mode/#utah [+o maquis] by elg |
| 17:34.28 | *** mode/#utah [+o goozbach] by ChanServ |
| 17:34.37 | goozbach | :D |
| 17:34.37 | findlay | does look kind of suggestive from the conversation :) |
| 17:35.15 | *** mode/#utah [-o goozbach] by elg |
| 17:35.18 | *** mode/#utah [-o elg] by elg |
| 17:35.28 | elg | ;-) |
| 17:45.21 | levi | So, I'm reading this article about the creation of mp3 and how they used Suzanne Vega's song Tom's Diner as a test case. |
| 17:45.38 | elg | oh yeah? |
| 17:45.53 | levi | It reminded me of when I was driving home after Christmas last year, and My99.5 was playing non-stop Suzanne Vega songs. |
| 17:46.03 | elg | haha |
| 17:46.07 | levi | So bizarre. |
| 17:46.09 | elg | what else does she do? |
| 17:46.19 | elg | anything I've likely heard? |
| 17:47.02 | levi | "Left of Centre" got a fair amount of airplay in the mid-90s, I think. |
| 17:48.41 | levi | Apparently her song "Luka" charted at #3 here in the 80s. |
| 17:48.55 | levi | And I recall hearing "Blood Makes Noise" on the radio before. |
| 17:49.03 | levi | She was never very mainstream, though. |
| 17:50.59 | levi | I think I mostly heard her on x96 and similar stations. |
| 17:51.34 | elg | and x96 and a half dozen other radio stations that are listenable at least half of the time |
| 17:52.02 | levi | Which makes it all the more odd that they were playing nothing but her on My99.5, which tends towards fairly mainstream stuff. |
| 17:52.38 | elg | heh |
| 18:00.22 | levi | Huh, Germany has a law that entitles researchers to a cut of the profits made from their patented inventions. |
| 18:07.07 | goozbach | so after three monts of being caffiene free i accidently ordered a coke today |
| 18:07.20 | redbeard1 | how was it? |
| 18:07.27 | goozbach | s/monts/months/ |
| 18:07.34 | goozbach | meh |
| 18:07.54 | elg | like meth you say? |
| 18:07.55 | goozbach | i was hoping for a sugar-based coke |
| 18:08.16 | goozbach | it's juat a normal corn syrup one |
| 18:08.35 | goozbach | i'm eating at this latin market |
| 18:08.49 | goozbach | expecting the latin style cokes |
| 18:18.53 | levi | Cool, it looks like there's actually some activity by some people porting Strongtalk to Linux. |
| 18:20.39 | *** join/#utah vontrapp (n=von@host-118.pl107906.fiber.net) |
| 18:21.42 | levi | elg: So, I went through some of the 'Getting Started With Erlang' tutorials yesterday during a dull class, since they were handy on my hard drive. It's fun how easy it is to send ping/pong messages between two erlang nodes. |
| 18:22.23 | QBFreak | goozbach: I wonder if that is what was different with the Nigerian cokes, I remember a difference but its been a while |
| 18:22.59 | findlay | is there a way to convert psd files into png files? |
| 18:23.08 | tensai | I thought the thing with the Nigerian cokes was they would empty your bank account |
| 18:23.25 | QBFreak | nah, they were actually cheap :p |
| 18:23.59 | tensai | still, I wouldn't give them your account number. just in case. |
| 18:24.18 | QBFreak | don't worry, at that time I didn't even know what it was |
| 18:24.30 | tensai | were you in Nigeria? |
| 18:25.09 | QBFreak | for six weeks, my dad was helping some missionary friends with some computer troubles that had to be resolved before they could come back on furlough |
| 18:25.29 | tensai | findlay: imagemagick should do it |
| 18:25.35 | QBFreak | and of course then everyone wanted us to fix their computer :) |
| 18:25.55 | tensai | findlay: gimp also supports psd to an extent |
| 18:26.40 | QBFreak | it had suffered a 420v power surge (everything is 220 there), I hooked it up and the capacitors blew up |
| 18:27.45 | findlay | tensai: but I tried once before with imagemagick and it seperated the source psd file into seperate images |
| 18:27.58 | findlay | and I need the composite image |
| 18:28.16 | findlay | maybe -flatten? |
| 18:28.21 | tensai | well that's silly. do you have the gimp? |
| 18:28.37 | findlay | yes, but I have dozens of psd files |
| 18:28.48 | findlay | I don't want to convert them one by one |
| 18:28.50 | tensai | hmm. I see your dilemma |
| 18:29.09 | findlay | stupid adobe and its weird formats |
| 18:30.03 | tensai | gimp has a batch mode |
| 18:30.06 | tensai | never used it before |
| 18:31.04 | findlay | yeah, doesn't it also have a perl/python api? |
| 18:32.04 | *** join/#utah mgeary (n=mgeary@166.70.44.49) |
| 18:32.08 | mgeary | hi folks |
| 18:33.59 | findlay | tensai: what do you know, `convert -flatten file.psd file.png` worked! |
| 18:34.01 | findlay | (: |
| 18:34.18 | findlay | sweet |
| 18:34.35 | levi | Hi, mgeary. |
| 18:35.26 | elg | levi: yes it is, the message passing is beautiful |
| 18:36.04 | elg | i'm trying to do a problem (in between tasks) at the end of the concurrency chapter and my brain just isn't clicking into gear |
| 18:36.09 | tensai | findlay: for the record, it looks like script-fu could handle it pretty easy |
| 18:36.23 | *** join/#utah jbellis (n=Jonathan@dsl092-197-124.sea1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 18:36.27 | findlay | tensai: I'm not surprised. The GIMP has lots of power |
| 18:36.37 | findlay | you just have to look for it a little |
| 18:36.59 | elg | levi: the problem is, create a ring of N processes, send a message M times through the ring and time it. |
| 18:37.06 | levi | elg: Ahh, yeah. |
| 18:37.08 | elg | should be easy enough. but I'm having a hard time constructing things |
| 18:37.26 | elg | the message passing bit is easy enough, it's just the functional style I'm struggling with I think |
| 18:37.45 | levi | It definitely takes some usage before it gets comfortable. |
| 18:37.58 | mgeary | so, i'm looking for smart people who have kids in elementary school. Trying to evaluate options for getting my kids the best education possible. Anyone have any glowing recommendations for something in Utah Valley? |
| 18:38.13 | elg | mgeary: the library |
| 18:38.28 | Jayce^ | mgeary, some of the charter schools are the best |
| 18:38.34 | Jayce^ | lincoln academy specifically |
| 18:38.45 | mgeary | we're looking at the Freedom Academy |
| 18:38.48 | mgeary | anyone know much about it? |
| 18:38.57 | elg | do they serve freedom fries? |
| 18:39.22 | mgeary | on Freedom Friday |
| 18:39.39 | levi | elg: However, it's probably good that you're approaching it through Erlang first rather than Haskell, because Erlang is a much simpler language. |
| 18:42.40 | elg | yeah |
| 18:42.50 | elg | mgeary: touché |
| 18:43.06 | elg | you're a worthy a-pun-ant |
| 18:43.26 | mgeary | anyone here using a private school? |
| 18:43.34 | mgeary | <groan> |
| 18:44.15 | Jayce^ | mgeary, no, haven't been able to get into a charter :( |
| 18:45.05 | mgeary | sorry to hear that, though private != charter |
| 18:45.22 | mgeary | but it seems that all the private schools around here are non-accreditated |
| 18:45.31 | mgeary | uh, -accredited |
| 18:46.14 | vontrapp | who needs accredited? |
| 18:46.48 | mgeary | not to mention Harvard and Stanford ;) |
| 18:47.05 | macnewbold | mgeary: I would have guessed more of the privates were acreddited |
| 18:47.10 | Lone_Wanderer | what level of school, mgeary? |
| 18:47.11 | macnewbold | sp |
| 18:47.15 | mgeary | elementary |
| 18:47.25 | mgeary | macnewbold: you may be aware of options that i'm not |
| 18:47.27 | macnewbold | charter schools are pretty cool though, some of them anyway |
| 18:47.30 | elg | even harvard and stanford don't care where you went to elementary |
| 18:47.34 | macnewbold | I'm in SL County though |
| 18:47.39 | mgeary | heh. true, elg |
| 18:47.44 | Lone_Wanderer | yeah, elementary may be a bit early to be worrying about accreditation |
| 18:47.45 | macnewbold | don't know much about utah county schools |
| 18:47.46 | mgeary | but still... :) |
| 18:48.31 | vontrapp | i think the educational system as a whole is entirely broken anyway |
| 18:48.47 | elg | especially the lunch ladies. they're so mean |
| 18:48.53 | mgeary | i'm a supporter of public education, but it seems a different world than when i was in school |
| 18:49.09 | Lone_Wanderer | I'd be more likely to go with a non-accredited school, if "accredited" means "part of the public school system" |
| 18:49.12 | mgeary | we had gifted/talented programs coming out of our ears 30 years ago |
| 18:49.30 | mgeary | LW: an accredited school can issue a state-recognized diploma |
| 18:49.44 | mgeary | an non-accredited school has their kids take the GED |
| 18:50.27 | jbellis | mgeary: so does it really matter for elementary? |
| 18:50.39 | mgeary | but often, non-accredited schools, in my limited experience, tend to have more extreme views about religion in school. i'm happy to take care of my kids' religious education at home, thanks. |
| 18:50.47 | mgeary | jbellis: not on paper, no |
| 18:51.19 | vontrapp | while in general employers 'need' degrees in their employees, i will watch intently as things change and evolve |
| 18:52.05 | elg | high school is all about jumping through hoops. I (with my parents' help) decided to go around the hoops, and it has made all the difference |
| 18:52.09 | vontrapp | economics will not allow education to continue it's course, with bloating tuition costs and grade inflation |
| 18:52.09 | Lone_Wanderer | mgeary: That was going to be the other thing I said. "Who cares if it's accredited, so long as they keep out the (minority group) and the women's libbers! And give those kids some good Bible study time as well, got ta raise them up right." |
| 18:52.10 | mgeary | sure, but i'm talking about education, not employment. The thing is, i believe that a school that was academically intensive would have no problem getting accredited |
| 18:52.41 | mgeary | heh |
| 18:53.34 | mgeary | well, i'm not looking to start any fights, but let's just say that i'm a bit left of center, and a lot of private schools *a-hem* American Heritage *cough* are a bit too far to the right for my tastes |
| 18:54.01 | Lone_Wanderer | mgeary: That was more or less my point, and my position as well ;) |
| 18:54.37 | mgeary | though, as a counterpoint, get this-- |
| 18:54.41 | vontrapp | so really you're looking at accreditation as a filter for whak-schools |
| 18:54.55 | mgeary | heh. vontrapp, that might be another way of saying it |
| 18:55.05 | Lone_Wanderer | (inadvertantly, I assure you.) |
| 18:55.16 | jbellis | are there really so many private/charter options that you need that filter to cut down the choices? |
| 18:55.26 | jbellis | that wasn't my impression but i'm a bit north |
| 18:55.35 | Lone_Wanderer | Can someone explain what a low-pass filter is? As used in the sentence "Human brokers as a low-pass filter in the stock market" |
| 18:55.48 | mgeary | my son comes home the other day (1st grade), with a scandalized look on his face. "Dad," he says, "Ethan at school talked about Church at school!!" |
| 18:55.57 | mgeary | "that's okay", i reply |
| 18:56.03 | mgeary | "no, it isn't, dad" he says |
| 18:56.10 | vontrapp | low pass i believe takes out the outliers |
| 18:56.23 | mgeary | i'm sorry, but that's just crap. There is no law against *students* talking all they'd like about religion |
| 18:56.33 | Lone_Wanderer | mgeary: tell that to the atheists |
| 18:56.53 | dataw0lf | Lone_Wanderer: a low pass filter takes out high frequencies |
| 18:56.54 | QBFreak | mgeary: I don't know what they are, but students have very specific rights in that area, and often schools aren't even aware of them |
| 18:57.02 | dataw0lf | and lets low frequencies pass |
| 18:57.03 | mgeary | that is correct |
| 18:57.07 | dataw0lf | like, say, a brick wall |
| 18:57.15 | Lone_Wanderer | So a low pass filter in the stock market would stop gigantic fluctuations? |
| 18:57.22 | elg | Lone_Wanderer: in that sense, it means they smooth things out |
| 18:57.28 | Lone_Wanderer | cool |
| 18:57.32 | elg | yes, rapid changes are dampened by lowpass filters |
| 18:57.39 | elg | so you get smoother curves |
| 18:57.54 | mgeary | it's like those polls they do at high schools where they ask students if free speech should be limited to prevent people from criticizing the government. Like 80% of students say such limitations should be put in place. Sheesh |
| 18:58.04 | Lone_Wanderer | ?!?!?? |
| 18:58.08 | vontrapp | QBFreak: that's why the schools brainwash the kids to enforce their religion policies through peer pressure |
| 18:58.09 | Lone_Wanderer | That's the entire POINT of free speech |
| 18:58.11 | mgeary | seriously. i'll dig it up |
| 18:58.26 | Lone_Wanderer | mgeary: reddit it up instead |
| 18:58.32 | mgeary | http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6888837/ |
| 18:58.33 | Lone_Wanderer | ~rimshot |
| 18:58.40 | ibot | ch-ch-chhh |
| 18:59.04 | mgeary | 100,00 students, for heaven's sake |
| 18:59.36 | vontrapp | well hopefully by the time all these students grow up and vote out freedom, i'll have moved to england or something |
| 18:59.43 | mgeary | from the article: "When asked whether people should be allowed to express unpopular views,.... Only 83 percent of students did |
| 18:59.51 | mgeary | sigh |
| 19:00.09 | Lone_Wanderer | England, vontrapp? |
| 19:00.11 | dataw0lf | freedom's being voted out now |
| 19:00.22 | dataw0lf | you mean when freedom is completely voted out, I assume. |
| 19:00.34 | vontrapp | hmm, maybe i don't have time to finish school here |
| 19:00.40 | vontrapp | better get out while i can |
| 19:00.50 | dataw0lf | I'm going to stay here and organize a resistance force |
| 19:00.56 | dataw0lf | it's been my dream for years.... |
| 19:01.10 | Lone_Wanderer | You mean this England, vontrapp: http://www.samizdata.net/blog/archives/002285.html |
| 19:01.11 | Lone_Wanderer | ? |
| 19:01.12 | vontrapp | i'll just build an empire in england and take over the us |
| 19:02.01 | vontrapp | Dark Wing (duck) ? |
| 19:02.13 | Lone_Wanderer | datawolf, but yes, I often think of that too :D |
| 19:02.35 | jbellis | so who is running this utos thing? |
| 19:03.10 | *** join/#utah Robdor (n=Robdor@208.187.198.179) |
| 19:03.17 | Lone_Wanderer | Utah OS? |
| 19:03.38 | dataw0lf | vontrapp: good luck, buddy. My motorcycle tribal gang will send your butt packing back to the queen |
| 19:04.00 | dataw0lf | Lone_Wanderer: convention |
| 19:04.08 | Lone_Wanderer | Ohhh, this gives me visions of an RTS. |
| 19:04.10 | vontrapp | haha |
| 19:04.44 | vontrapp | fsck... sorry bish, but my files were corrupted |
| 19:04.46 | Lone_Wanderer | each member of #utah has their own playable faction (except sjansen, who is the unstable but generally benevolent demigod) |
| 19:05.16 | elg | jbellis: herlo was running some meeting the other day |
| 19:06.32 | elg | ~onjoin elg Mynd you, møøse bites kan be pretty nastï |
| 19:06.32 | ibot | ok, elg |
| 19:06.59 | levi | jbellis: It seems to be run by a group of people, including herlo, jayce, and others. |
| 19:07.11 | vontrapp | Lone_Wanderer: i didn't say britain, but even so, everyone in england seems to at least be aware about such things and actively (and more importantly i think noticable) defend themselves |
| 19:07.31 | vontrapp | americans are lazy-$$s bums and just let their freedoms float away |
| 19:07.47 | Lone_Wanderer | England isn't Britain? I thought that Britain was composed of England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland? |
| 19:08.13 | vontrapp | yes, britain is _in_ england |
| 19:08.29 | mgeary | LW: not Southern Ireland |
| 19:08.32 | dataw0lf | you mean england is in britian |
| 19:08.56 | vontrapp | oh wait, hmm, i always thing of england as the continent |
| 19:09.12 | mgeary | UK is the entire group, i believe |
| 19:09.17 | dataw0lf | UK/Britian |
| 19:09.19 | vontrapp | well, uk then |
| 19:09.27 | vontrapp | that doesn't sound right |
| 19:09.42 | Lone_Wanderer | ~wiki Britain |
| 19:10.14 | vontrapp | ~wiki england |
| 19:10.51 | Lone_Wanderer | Anyway. What part did you want to move to? |
| 19:10.54 | elg | thanks ibot, I wouldn't have known those were URLs without the (URL) thing. |
| 19:11.20 | Lone_Wanderer | ibot: thanks |
| 19:11.20 | ibot | Lone_Wanderer: bitte |
| 19:12.00 | vontrapp | Lone_Wanderer: i don't know, maybe i'll go to africa instead |
| 19:12.10 | Lone_Wanderer | I suggest Morocco. |
| 19:12.15 | *** join/#utah Sargun (n=xbmodder@atarack/staff/sargun) |
| 19:12.43 | Lone_Wanderer | You'd have to learn Moroccan though, which is Arabic with liberal sprinklings of French and Berber. |
| 19:13.04 | Lone_Wanderer | On the upside, they've got great tea, lamb, and rugs. |
| 19:14.02 | vontrapp | don't underestimate the appeal of a good rug |
| 19:14.16 | elg | i'm just waiting for alaska to go sovreign |
| 19:14.39 | Lone_Wanderer | Oh, that'd be rich. |
| 19:15.06 | Lone_Wanderer | "We're our own country! Our chief export will be... umm. Actually, can we take that back?" |
| 19:15.18 | vontrapp | salmon |
| 19:15.34 | elg | and malamutes |
| 19:15.40 | vontrapp | and halibut |
| 19:15.43 | Lone_Wanderer | I guess they've got oil, don't they? And presumably some amount of lumber. And yeah, salmon, reindeer steaks and crab. |
| 19:15.47 | elg | and grizzly bears |
| 19:15.59 | elg | lots of oil, relative to the rest of the country iirc |
| 19:16.06 | vontrapp | and when they are their own coutry, they can drill all the oil they want |
| 19:16.07 | Lone_Wanderer | I bet reindeer steaks are mighty tasty. Probably like cinnamon and candy canes. |
| 19:16.17 | elg | and being 3x the size of texas and mostly covered by deciduous forest |
| 19:16.22 | Lone_Wanderer | They could export environmentalists! |
| 19:16.34 | Lone_Wanderer | And import tourists. |
| 19:16.52 | elg | better than that, they could execute environmentalists on contract |
| 19:17.14 | elg | Alaska, for all your environmentalist disposal needs |
| 19:17.56 | Lone_Wanderer | Someone should start an anti-environmentalist movement where wackos firebomb PETA and Greenpeace headquarters. |
| 19:18.01 | elg | they could export ice, as global warming kicks in |
| 19:18.05 | Lone_Wanderer | It'd be like ELF in reverse. |
| 19:18.52 | Lone_Wanderer | Or, better, release a herd of cattle into the lobby. "Here you go, take good care of 'em!" |
| 19:19.39 | dataw0lf | it's called 'oil and pharmaceutical companies' |
| 19:22.58 | *** join/#utah vontrapp (n=von@host-118.pl107906.fiber.net) |
| 19:26.24 | QBFreak | elg: are you a Schlock Mercenary reader? |
| 19:26.30 | elg | yessir |
| 19:26.39 | QBFreak | I thought so :) |
| 19:26.48 | elg | heh, why? |
| 19:27.16 | QBFreak | executing environmentalists on contract made me think of the lawyer drones |
| 19:27.29 | elg | :-D |
| 19:28.24 | QBFreak | which then reminds me of a rather scary (conceptually) Farscape episode where a planet was ruled by law firms... |
| 19:29.03 | dataw0lf | aren't most of our elected officials lawyers? |
| 19:29.22 | levi | Locally, it seems like most of them are real-estate developers. :P |
| 19:32.58 | *** join/#utah thesuperbigfrog (n=user@72.8.101.92) |
| 19:33.41 | ^Migs^ | how do I reconfigure the location of a user's home directory? |
| 19:34.39 | Lone_Wanderer | edit /etc/passwd I believe |
| 19:34.42 | dataw0lf | /etc/passwd |
| 19:34.53 | ^Migs^ | k, thanks |
| 19:35.00 | goozbach | ^Migs^: usermod |
| 19:35.12 | goozbach | editing the homedir in passwd is dangerous |
| 19:35.28 | goozbach | usermod is a better solution, cause it can also move it |
| 19:35.34 | ^Migs^ | I can't edit passwd anyway. On a shared host. |
| 19:35.43 | dataw0lf | just use vipw |
| 19:36.39 | levi | It's kind of funny to me how people sing the praises of unix plain text config files, yet discourage actually /using/ those files to change configuration. Instead, you must go through some arbitrary command like utility. |
| 19:37.10 | dataw0lf | not if you use a locking editor wrapper like vipw |
| 19:37.16 | ^Migs^ | levi: It's good to have both because it demonstrates flexibility |
| 19:38.21 | levi | I'm a fan of the NeXT/OS X NetInfo system, myself. |
| 19:38.54 | tensai | whatever that was I didn't like it |
| 19:39.07 | tensai | it was like my control key was stuck in the down position, but it wasn't. not physically anyway. |
| 19:39.23 | levi | tensai: That does sound unpleasant. |
| 19:39.56 | graphyx | So there is a possibility that I will be moving back to Utah. |
| 19:39.56 | tensai | that's what I get for trying to listen to Pachelbel |
| 19:40.14 | dataw0lf | levi: maybe if they could've made it work with DNS in a timely fashion... |
| 19:40.23 | tensai | graphyx: life not painful enough for you? |
| 19:40.26 | Lone_Wanderer | If the possibility exists, you will. |
| 19:41.24 | levi | dataw0lf: Well, it has issues, but I prefer the concept to a slew of arbitrary text files. |
| 19:41.27 | Lone_Wanderer | Utah is a quantum black hole, sucking probabilities into itself and collapsing them into a singularity: You Can Never Get Out. |
| 19:41.35 | graphyx | Well I have an interview for a security position at L-3 working with one of my best buds from college |
| 19:42.00 | graphyx | And it would also entail getting ts clearance which looks good on any resume. |
| 19:42.02 | levi | dataw0lf: And I like how you can dump the info contained in the standard arbitrary files to real files and then import them back in. |
| 19:42.08 | dataw0lf | levi: aren't they moving to LDAP now? |
| 19:42.18 | graphyx | So my friend told me I would be stupid to not interview for it. |
| 19:42.42 | levi | dataw0lf: Possibly. LDAP is fine to me, too. |
| 19:43.53 | levi | My OS X box still uses netinfo, though. |
| 19:44.44 | graphyx | Lone_Wanderer: I moved out for a 50% raise and I have the possibility of a 25% raise to move back in. |
| 19:44.44 | Lone_Wanderer | graphyx: My point exactly. |
| 19:45.09 | Lone_Wanderer | I now hate Mtn America credit union. |
| 19:45.14 | graphyx | So you say that if I get a better paying job outside that Utah will have one for me that pays even more next time? |
| 19:45.50 | Lone_Wanderer | graphyx: no, just that you will always come back, for one reason or another |
| 19:46.35 | Lone_Wanderer | Unusual call volumes. Of course. |
| 19:46.36 | graphyx | I thought that was Moussori |
| 19:46.38 | Lone_Wanderer | ~lart macu |
| 19:46.44 | mgeary | i saw an article yesterday that claimed that the avg. wages for a Senior Software Engineer in San Jose were between $80k and $110k. Can you even buy a house in the bay area with that salary? |
| 19:46.52 | graphyx | no |
| 19:47.10 | mgeary | wouldn't think so |
| 19:47.26 | graphyx | small house an 1/6 arce lot run at least $500K |
| 19:47.42 | graphyx | which is a 4000$ monthly payment |
| 19:47.52 | graphyx | and you have prop taxes on top |
| 19:48.26 | mgeary | what kind of interest rate makes $4k payments on 500k??? |
| 19:48.38 | mgeary | i guess if you put zero down, maybe |
| 19:48.51 | graphyx | thats a ballpark |
| 19:49.20 | graphyx | perhaps a little high for 30 years |
| 19:49.26 | tensai | sounds reasonable to me, extrapolating on mine |
| 19:49.28 | mgeary | yeah. we scoped out Virgina last year. Same house, same size lot was twice what you'd pay in a nice area of Utah Valley |
| 19:50.18 | mgeary | of course, my sister is looking at 2-room condos in Columbus Ohio at $60k. "I'll take two, thanks" |
| 19:51.16 | graphyx | 6.5/8.5 80/20 first second scplit |
| 19:52.22 | mgeary | heh. sorry to make you do the math, graphyx |
| 19:53.00 | goozbach | I got out of utah |
| 19:53.10 | graphyx | mgeary: it is ok |
| 19:53.22 | goozbach | of course, I was only orbiting utah |
| 19:53.33 | goozbach | only there during the weekends |
| 19:53.34 | graphyx | extrapolating on my mortgage it would be roughly 4200 for everything |
| 19:53.40 | goozbach | I never crossed the event horizion |
| 19:53.44 | graphyx | but our prop taxes are cheaper here |
| 19:55.18 | Lone_Wanderer | We need a double-strength extra-lart |
| 19:55.18 | Lone_Wanderer | that can be applied only to incompetent financial institutions |
| 19:55.46 | goozbach | Lone_Wanderer: try punish |
| 19:55.52 | goozbach | ~punish person |
| 19:55.56 | ibot | ACTION forces person to install and use Windows |
| 19:56.05 | Lone_Wanderer | ~punish Mountain America |
| 19:56.06 | ibot | ACTION forces Mountain America to install and use Windows |
| 19:56.31 | Lone_Wanderer | That, unfortunately, would punish me as a side effect. |
| 19:56.46 | burnthegreat | how is it going guys? |
| 20:06.52 | tensai | who thought that shift-space was a good way to change keyboard input schemes |
| 20:07.02 | tensai | apparently I often hit shift-space as I type |
| 20:07.39 | levi | tensai: What program changes input schemes with shift-space? |
| 20:07.57 | tensai | SCIM |
| 20:08.08 | *** join/#utah nick125 (n=nick@atarack/staff/nick125) |
| 20:08.15 | tensai | it's a バカ |
| 20:08.43 | QBFreak | sometimes you want to be able to type a capital space |
| 20:09.00 | tensai | QBFreak: I know. what were they thinking? |
| 20:09.32 | tensai | I guess my pinky just lags a little |
| 20:09.49 | Lone_Wanderer | There we go. Hopefully my email to them was sufficiently wrathful that whoever reads it will have their eyebrows singed off. |
| 20:10.22 | *** join/#utah nick125_ (n=nick@nat.nick125.com) |
| 20:10.46 | Lone_Wanderer | Because we all know that the people who have jobs reading angry emails are the same people who are responsible for what happened in the first place. |
| 20:14.23 | *** join/#utah JustARock (n=TheDude@shea.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 20:15.32 | tensai | findlay: what musical instruments do you play? |
| 20:16.50 | *** join/#utah sjansen (n=sjansen@class1-nat.gurulabs.com) |
| 20:30.26 | tensai | sjansen: you "teaching" a class right now? |
| 20:34.26 | Lone_Wanderer | Why the quotes? |
| 20:34.47 | harleypig | Cause he doesn't so much teach as expostulates! |
| 20:34.48 | redbeard1 | Lone_Wanderer, well, this is sjansen we're talking about... |
| 20:35.01 | tensai | I've been in his classes. I know what I'm talking about. |
| 20:35.16 | redbeard1 | he has class? |
| 20:35.48 | harleypig | Hmmm ... wonder if he has this up on a big screen somewhere and not paying attention to it. |
| 20:35.50 | tene | redbeard1: well, I can honestly say he's comparable to java... |
| 20:35.58 | tene | ;) |
| 20:36.01 | redbeard1 | ooh, scary |
| 20:36.02 | harleypig | YO CLASS! SAY HI TO SJANSEN FOR US! |
| 20:36.30 | southsky | sjansen makes me laugh |
| 20:38.33 | harleypig | Lone_Wanderer: I've had nothing but good from MACU ... what problems are you running into? |
| 20:39.49 | *** part/#utah jbellis (n=Jonathan@dsl092-197-124.sea1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 20:40.34 | Lone_Wanderer | Card got deactivated Friday night from buying something overseas (from a web site, but they charged in GBP) |
| 20:40.39 | Lone_Wanderer | nobody called to confirm or deny |
| 20:41.01 | sjansen | Sorry to disappoint y'all. I all by my lonely, coding. |
| 20:41.05 | Lone_Wanderer | the charge went through (!!!) despite the card being deactivated, and then when I went into the branch to get it fixed, the kid didn't know what he was doing and it didn't get fixed |
| 20:41.37 | harleypig | Oh. Wow. That sucks. |
| 20:42.15 | Lone_Wanderer | So I'm at the pump this morning, trying to buy gas, and instead I have to go in and stand in line for 10 minutes (okay, more like five) |
| 20:42.18 | harleypig | You must've fallen through the cracks somehow. I've always been called within minutes of an unusual charge. |
| 20:42.47 | Lone_Wanderer | That's the only thing I can figure. Two mistakes in a row. If it was anything else, it'd be a less-big deal, but my primary purchasing tool... |
| 20:43.23 | mgeary | LW that reminds me of people who will wait 20 minutes at CostCo to save $.80 on a tank full of gas |
| 20:43.35 | harleypig | I'd be more surprised and upset if the mistakes weren't contiguous. |
| 20:43.58 | harleypig | mgeary: Actually, I save about $15 on two tanks of gas. |
| 20:44.08 | levi | mgeary: The costco gas lines are completely empty in the morning, too. |
| 20:44.21 | mgeary | both of which are fine |
| 20:44.50 | mgeary | but the fact remains that there are obviously dozens (hundreds) of people who will willingly wait 20 minutes to save a buck |
| 20:45.10 | harleypig | Well, yeah, but that's a given in Utah. |
| 20:45.16 | Lone_Wanderer | Which is what, $5 an hour? |
| 20:45.17 | harleypig | That's like saying the sky is blue. |
| 20:46.18 | Lone_Wanderer | Except at sunrise or sunset. |
| 20:46.23 | Lone_Wanderer | ;) |
| 20:46.26 | harleypig | Or midnight. |
| 20:46.31 | harleypig | Or on a cloudy day. |
| 20:46.35 | harleypig | Or during and eclipse. |
| 20:46.49 | harleypig | Or when the aliens take over and make the sky green. |
| 20:47.09 | harleypig | :] |
| 20:47.12 | Lone_Wanderer | by pumping chlorine into the atmosphere? |
| 20:47.34 | harleypig | That or misting everyones boogers. |
| 20:47.55 | mgeary | ooh ooh. White Mountains reference |
| 20:47.59 | mgeary | loved those books |
| 20:48.06 | Lone_Wanderer | same! (obviously) |
| 20:48.21 | Lone_Wanderer | although, aliens who breathe chlorine? somebody didn't think that one through. |
| 20:48.33 | goozbach | hey, it could happen |
| 20:49.16 | Lone_Wanderer | How? Doesn't the primary respiratory gas more or less have to be chemically similar to oxygen, so it can be used in cellular respiration? |
| 20:49.30 | sjansen | ~rlart |
| 20:49.33 | levi | Only with at totally different set of fundamental biochemical reactions. |
| 20:50.06 | harleypig | wow ... I've never heard of that book ... I'll have to find it and read it. The reviews seem interesting. |
| 20:50.12 | macnewbold | Lone_Wanderer: if their cellular respiration depends on chlorine, then it would work great, and perhaps oxygen would be a poisonous gas to them.... |
| 20:50.12 | redbeard1 | Lone_Wanderer, you need to see a movie called evolution, |
| 20:51.14 | levi | I'm not sure whether chlorine would combine with other molecules with sufficient complexity to support complex organisms. |
| 20:51.47 | Lone_Wanderer | What I'm thinking about is the role oxygen plays in cellular respiration, specifically that it "burns" things (in a very controlled way) to provide us with energy |
| 20:52.56 | *** join/#utah thaddeusq (n=thaddeus@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com) |
| 20:52.58 | Lone_Wanderer | I guess chlorine is reactive enough that it could conceivably serve the same purpose. |
| 20:52.59 | levi | cellular respiration is not the only way to generate chemical energy. |
| 20:53.03 | sjansen | I'm not sure binary is sufficiently complex to support complex computation. |
| 20:53.47 | Lone_Wanderer | So they could have a completely different kind of metabolism. |
| 20:53.49 | macnewbold | silicon-based lifeforms that breath chlorine might be surprised how many silicone-based lifeforms we have down here... |
| 20:53.57 | harleypig | That's why we need a trinary language. |
| 20:54.33 | sjansen | harleypig: I'm not sure anything less complex than XML is sufficiently rich to perform computation. |
| 20:54.35 | harleypig | They might not even consider us human or intelligent. |
| 20:54.47 | harleypig | ow ow ow ow ow |
| 20:54.56 | harleypig | sjansen is a meany. |
| 20:55.17 | levi | sjansen: What I mean is, the elements that make up the compounds we call 'organic' seem to react with each other to form structures that are sufficiently complex to describe organisms. Chlorine may well have a group of elements it could react with to form similarly complex structures, but I don't know. |
| 20:55.23 | harleypig | sjansen: why not go for sgml then? |
| 20:56.25 | sjansen | levi: And I'm pointing out that maybe a chlorine breathing organism isn't very organic, nor does is consist of a rich diversity of structures but instead complex combinations of very simple structures. |
| 20:56.32 | harleypig | The problem is, though, that silicon based life forms wouldn't even be looking at this planet ... they'd find venus more attractive and easier to terraform |
| 20:57.03 | levi | sjansen: Possibly. I don't know enough about chemistry to know if that's feasible. |
| 20:57.51 | Lone_Wanderer | Maybe I'll major in biology. Again. |
| 20:57.52 | sjansen | Based on what we can achieve with a little doped silicon and copper, I'm pretty sure it is. |
| 20:57.57 | Lone_Wanderer | That'd bring me full circle. |
| 20:58.05 | harleypig | well, not terraform, whatever they would call silicon transplanting. |
| 20:58.27 | harleypig | or implanting. |
| 20:58.31 | Lone_Wanderer | Probably (their planet)forming |
| 20:58.37 | sjansen | Of course, if you want to argue for the evolutionary creation of such... I guess you could pull out the old "give a trillion universes and a trillion years" argument. |
| 20:58.47 | levi | sjansen: Yes, but those elements were not chosen arbitrarily. |
| 20:59.11 | harleypig | levi: but they aren't the only combination |
| 20:59.20 | sjansen | You're just frightened by the thought of a hyper-intelligent shade of the color blue. |
| 20:59.25 | harleypig | sjansen: that means there is at least one more me out there somewhere! |
| 20:59.27 | levi | harleypig: No, but there are a finite set of combinations that would work. |
| 20:59.35 | Lone_Wanderer | I painted my room hooloova. |
| 20:59.43 | harleypig | levi: In this type of universe. |
| 20:59.44 | Lone_Wanderer | It talks to me at night. |
| 21:00.04 | harleypig | Does it make fun of you? |
| 21:00.17 | sjansen | And harleypig pulls out the old "maybe our neighbors have different laws of physics card". |
| 21:00.18 | levi | harleypig: Are you suggesting that something from another universe with different fundamental laws could come here and exist in ours? |
| 21:00.20 | Lone_Wanderer | Yes. I'm not even remotely blue-colored. So it makes fun of me to make me *feel* blue. |
| 21:00.38 | harleypig | levi: Possibly. |
| 21:00.47 | harleypig | sjansen: No maybe about it. |
| 21:00.56 | sjansen | levi: Sure, it merely needs to be sufficiently advanced to fundamentally alert its own makeup. ;-) |
| 21:01.11 | Lone_Wanderer | In other words, it needs to be a life form created in Lisp. |
| 21:01.16 | sjansen | s/alert/alter/ |
| 21:01.57 | harleypig | sjansen: Not necessarily ... it could carry its own universal laws around with it, although I'm not sure what that would do with this universe. |
| 21:02.02 | mheath | Man, homework is getting insane |
| 21:02.17 | macnewbold | mheath: try www.gradefix.com, I'll hook you up if you want |
| 21:02.24 | macnewbold | seriously, it can help a ton |
| 21:02.45 | harleypig | $self->toot( 'horn' ); |
| 21:02.45 | harleypig | :] |
| 21:02.50 | Lone_Wanderer | It's also possible that the combination of things that work in it's own universe may, when moved to this universe, be altered just enough to make them also work here. |
| 21:02.56 | mheath | macnewbold, can't use it. |
| 21:03.12 | mheath | My situation is far from traditional college, anyway. I'm in there almost all day everyday anyway :P |
| 21:03.20 | harleypig | Lone_Wanderer: Yeah, a writing implement there would be a planet destroying weapon here. |
| 21:03.39 | Lone_Wanderer | What do you think about life in other universes, or based on something other than carbon, mheath? |
| 21:03.40 | harleypig | "on topic"? What's that? |
| 21:04.03 | Lone_Wanderer | The topic at hand - life, the universe, and everything except for studying. |
| 21:04.06 | harleypig | Like, maybe anti-marshmallows? |
| 21:04.22 | mheath | anti-marshmallows? |
| 21:04.26 | mheath | Who you gonna call? |
| 21:04.27 | Lone_Wanderer | If you try to roast them over an anti-fire, they go from toasty to white? |
| 21:04.42 | harleypig | :] |
| 21:05.04 | Lone_Wanderer | I read a story once where this guy had a machine (he didn't have it, it was in a museum, but that doesn't matter) that could flip you around and turn you inside out |
| 21:05.18 | Lone_Wanderer | like, all your left-handed chemicals would come out the other end being right-handed |
| 21:05.22 | harleypig | Poke you from the 4th dimension, so to spea. |
| 21:05.25 | mheath | macnewbold, Unfortunately, specifics about my assignments, time to complete, etc. is all slightly sensitive information |
| 21:05.26 | Lone_Wanderer | Yes. |
| 21:05.30 | mheath | IE, stuff I can't post to the internet. |
| 21:05.42 | harleypig | ? Time to complete? |
| 21:05.45 | harleypig | Sensitive? |
| 21:05.59 | harleypig | You could always encode it. |
| 21:06.23 | mheath | harleypig, All I know is, I write down my assignment on a scrap piece of paper and I have to put it with the classified garbage pile |
| 21:06.28 | tene | perhaps using... ENCRYPTION?!?! |
| 21:06.55 | Lone_Wanderer | Anyway, I forget the name of the story, but it was by Zelazny and it was cool. The main character had a rich uncle who died and left him, in his will, a monthly stipend as long as he's an undergrad pursuing a degree |
| 21:07.07 | harleypig | What about life based on flourine? |
| 21:07.33 | Lone_Wanderer | So he worked out a way to stay an undergrad indefinitely, always working toward a degree but never graduating. |
| 21:07.36 | tene | is it ENCRYPTED toothpaste? |
| 21:07.51 | harleypig | oh oh oh ... I know. Life based on neon! |
| 21:08.03 | harleypig | Vegas would be a really flashy place then. |
| 21:08.11 | Lone_Wanderer | Don't play with Agblajag, he doesn't light up. |
| 21:08.20 | mheath | harleypig, in Soviet Russia, the neon lights YOU. |
| 21:09.11 | levi | So, my friend who is a PhD in biochemistry says that it's plausible that a lifeform somewhat similar to life as we know it could use chlorine in the place of oxygen, since the two gasses have similar chemical properties. |
| 21:09.43 | harleypig | What about life based off of no matter at all. |
| 21:10.03 | harleypig | What life forms existed during the big bang? |
| 21:10.35 | levi | I'm pretty sure those questions are outside his realm of expertise. |
| 21:10.46 | harleypig | Whose? |
| 21:11.01 | levi | Um, did you not read what I just said? |
| 21:11.04 | harleypig | That wasn't directed at anyone, but and attempt to continue this thread of conversation. |
| 21:11.06 | harleypig | Oh. |
| 21:11.07 | Lone_Wanderer | Sweet, I found the book. |
| 21:11.28 | harleypig | The one bound in human skin and human blood was used for ink?! COOL! |
| 21:11.38 | Lone_Wanderer | Ermm, no. |
| 21:11.44 | harleypig | Just don't read the last spell! |
| 21:11.51 | Lone_Wanderer | Doorways in the Sand. The one with the machine that can flip you around in the 4th dimension. |
| 21:12.26 | mheath | ~flip Lone_Wanderer |
| 21:12.44 | Lone_Wanderer | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doorways_in_the_Sand |
| 21:12.50 | levi | harleypig: I think the concept of life based on no matter at all would have to be elaborated before it could be judged whether it made any sense at all or not. |
| 21:13.20 | mheath | levi: I think the existance of life without matter would probably be based on ones religious beliefs. |
| 21:13.33 | Lone_Wanderer | Energy can interact with other energy, right? By forming gravitational fields and whatnot? |
| 21:14.03 | mheath | Lone_Wanderer, yes, but those kind of interactions depend on matter |
| 21:14.09 | Lone_Wanderer | Oh. Oh well. |
| 21:14.09 | mheath | IE, your example, gravitational fields |
| 21:14.13 | levi | Lone_Wanderer: Gravitational fields are formed by objects with mass. |
| 21:15.27 | mgeary | Lone_Wanderer: the same "flip" thing happens in one of L'Engle's books |
| 21:16.01 | levi | General Relativity is all about mass curving spacetime. |
| 21:16.13 | harleypig | levi: what kind of elaboration are you thinking of? |
| 21:16.16 | *** part/#utah southsky (n=southsky@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 21:16.27 | harleypig | mheath: I don't think it would have to be based on religous beliefs. |
| 21:16.48 | levi | harleypig: Well, what kind of energy are you referring to, anyway? |
| 21:17.05 | mheath | well, my point was more that: No known physics (AFAIK, which, granted, could easily be missing something) support the concept of life without mass. |
| 21:17.17 | harleypig | I didn't say energy, although that's kind of what's left isn't it. I just said 'no matter' |
| 21:17.22 | mheath | So, the question would be can...a soul, an intelligence, etc. exist with no matter? |
| 21:17.35 | mheath | Which, with current scientific knowledge, is really based on ones religious beliefs. |
| 21:17.39 | levi | harleypig: Well, okay then, that's the kind of elaboration I'm talking about. |
| 21:17.55 | harleypig | mheath: we're discussing conditions in other universes, which can be made up as we go |
| 21:18.03 | mheath | Ah, I see. Continue. |
| 21:18.14 | levi | I'm not discussing other universes. |
| 21:18.31 | mheath | ~lart math that should be easy but ends up hard when you continually make stupid mistakes you should not be making |
| 21:18.38 | levi | Discussing such things exceeds my 'pointless' threshold. |
| 21:18.41 | harleypig | mheath: And that question *does* involve religion/spiritual beliefs. |
| 21:19.04 | harleypig | levi: I thought we were talking in general terms. You're talking about this universe exclusively? |
| 21:19.14 | mheath | Can energy really exist without matter? |
| 21:19.30 | Lone_Wanderer | Light can exist in a vacuum, innit? |
| 21:19.41 | levi | harleypig: I don't think other universes are worth discussing, because we have no way of observing them. |
| 21:19.54 | harleypig | but a photon is both a particle and a wave, so it's matter. |
| 21:19.55 | mheath | It seems to me (granted, I'm limited to simple, conventional, neutonian thinking), that energy is truly defined by its reactions with matter. |
| 21:19.59 | harleypig | massless, but matter. |
| 21:20.08 | mheath | Lone_Wanderer, it can travel in a vacuum, yes. |
| 21:20.20 | mheath | But how can one even define the light if it never interreacts with _anything_? |
| 21:20.25 | harleypig | levi: no way currently. I don't think it's pointless to discuss, but I'll stick to this one. |
| 21:20.59 | Lone_Wanderer | Even EM radiation depends on electrons somewhere, doesn't it? |
| 21:21.01 | levi | harleypig: Anything we could observe would be part of our universe. |
| 21:21.05 | mheath | Gah, you all SUCK. |
| 21:21.22 | mheath | I sit through hours of class yet you still drag me into some humerous pseudo-physics conversation :P |
| 21:21.34 | levi | mheath: We live to entertain you. :P |
| 21:21.40 | harleypig | ? Why? If we stick a probe into another universe that would be observing it, yes? |
| 21:22.00 | mheath | harleypig, Question. |
| 21:22.02 | harleypig | Man, it'd be nice to have sudo for the universe. |
| 21:22.03 | Lone_Wanderer | mheath: humorous ;) |
| 21:22.13 | levi | harleypig: What makes you think such a thing is possible? |
| 21:22.20 | Jayce^ | harleypig, with you it's always about the probing isn't it? |
| 21:22.20 | elg | sudo apt-get upgrade earth |
| 21:22.22 | mheath | Say our universe contained NO matter. |
| 21:22.29 | mheath | Just some light moving through a vacuum |
| 21:22.34 | mheath | How would one define that light? |
| 21:22.42 | mheath | It has no position, because it's not relative to anything. |
| 21:22.48 | elg | it's the same as the tree cut down in the forest nobody around to hear it questions |
| 21:22.52 | mheath | It has no energy, really, because theres nothing for that energy to react with |
| 21:22.54 | harleypig | mheath: light is both a wave and a particle, so it is matter. |
| 21:23.02 | harleypig | levi: *shrug* |
| 21:23.03 | elg | or "if a man does dishes and his wife isn't home to see it, does he still get brownie points?" |
| 21:23.10 | mheath | Well, some matter-less energy. |
| 21:23.20 | graphyx | echo "ozone layer hole = 0;" >> /etc/uvprotection |
| 21:23.22 | elg | mheath: that's a matter-centric view |
| 21:23.27 | Sargun | Don't blow up my mind! |
| 21:23.35 | levi | mheath: Is there such a thing? |
| 21:23.36 | elg | just because it doesn't interact with matter doesn't imply that it doesn't exist |
| 21:23.44 | mheath | elg, Why? |
| 21:23.46 | graphyx | elg: no |
| 21:23.46 | Sargun | graphyx, Would that make the ozone layer perfect? |
| 21:23.49 | harleypig | levi: I have no proof, but I do believe in other universes, so it makes sense to me that we should be able to, at some point, observe those other universes. |
| 21:23.54 | elg | why should it? |
| 21:24.11 | levi | harleypig: Why should the existence of other universes mean we should be able to observe them? |
| 21:24.13 | mheath | Look at atomic physics. An atom is _defined_ as interactions between forms of energy. |
| 21:24.15 | graphyx | elg: In response to the wife question |
| 21:24.21 | elg | mheath: defined, by humans |
| 21:24.25 | Lone_Wanderer | harleypig: I was under the impression that quantum experiments involving light did involve other universes, albeit indirectly |
| 21:24.32 | mheath | Thats all our physics is based on - interactions between things. |
| 21:24.41 | elg | so... what? |
| 21:24.52 | elg | do things only exist when we classify them? |
| 21:25.00 | mheath | If there is literally _nothing_ for something to ever interreact with, how can we even define them as existing? |
| 21:25.02 | harleypig | Lone_Wanderer: an indirect proof isn't the same as a direct proof ... if something is in the way, we can only infer, not observe. |
| 21:25.16 | Lone_Wanderer | elg: So how can you discuss energy if it doesn't interact with anything, is what he's saying. Because currently all physics is defined in terms of interactions. |
| 21:25.30 | elg | mheath: well, discussing it would be difficult, no doubt |
| 21:25.44 | harleypig | levi: This conversation is going too fast for well thought out answers. |
| 21:25.46 | elg | but just because we have a hard time discussing or thinking about something doesn't imply that it doesn't exist |
| 21:25.53 | elg | that's silly pre-galileo thinking there |
| 21:26.29 | elg | i'm not arguing that this whateveritis does exist. I'm just saying you can't count it out just because you can't make a flashcard for it |
| 21:26.32 | graphyx | I can't see,smell, touch, taste, hear or feel the professors brain, therefore the professor doesn't have a brain. |
| 21:26.38 | harleypig | levi: If we can observe at all, then we can observe anything ... we just need to figure out how. |
| 21:27.01 | harleypig | graphyx: Well, you could, but you wouldn't be doing a whole lot else later on. |
| 21:27.19 | graphyx | hmm... I didn't think of it that way |
| 21:27.30 | Lone_Wanderer | elg: If we don't have a way to discuss it, we just need to make one. Define new terms and create new models. |
| 21:27.34 | graphyx | and I am not so glad that I did after wards. |
| 21:27.36 | Lone_Wanderer | mheath: ^^^ |
| 21:27.38 | levi | harleypig: That is not true. The uncertainty principle, for one thing, places limits on observability. |
| 21:28.10 | mheath | Wow |
| 21:28.12 | harleypig | Not really ... it *assumes* limits on observability. |
| 21:28.14 | mheath | Do checks usually print this fast? |
| 21:28.23 | mheath | Website said it would be like 2-4 days after printing |
| 21:28.27 | mheath | It took....1 business day to get to me |
| 21:28.29 | mheath | erm, 2 |
| 21:28.36 | elg | i read that l'engle book - the boy that reversed himself or something like that? |
| 21:28.39 | mheath | Ordered on Sunday, arrived today. :) |
| 21:28.41 | Lone_Wanderer | They're probably just adding padding so people don't get mad when it takes three days for something that normally is quick. |
| 21:29.09 | mheath | yah, my shiny new checks |
| 21:29.20 | mheath | With my new address and my rate on them :) |
| 21:29.22 | Lone_Wanderer | Like when "normal" shipping takes "five to ten business days", even though it doesn't really, just so that when something goes wrong their butt is covered. |
| 21:29.25 | levi | harleypig: It *describes* limits on observability. It is also intuitively correct. |
| 21:29.44 | Lone_Wanderer | mheath: rate = your rank or something? So you need to get new checks when you get promoted? Or is that something else? |
| 21:30.06 | mheath | Lone_Wanderer, yeah, I guess I will have to. (though they just look at name, so I could using the same ones) |
| 21:30.13 | mheath | Lone_Wanderer, rate = kind of your rank |
| 21:30.37 | mheath | rank + your job (which for me means it's just my rank as I don't officially have a rating/job yet) |
| 21:30.38 | harleypig | levi: Hmmm ... I need to look it up again. But ... I can't answer that without dragging God into this conversation. |
| 21:31.05 | mheath | Lone_Wanderer, For example, in 6 months my rank will be Petty Officer 3rd Class whereas my Rate will be Electrician's Mate 3rd Class. |
| 21:31.23 | Lone_Wanderer | mheath: ahh, I see, so it's like "Master Electrician" or something. |
| 21:31.49 | Lone_Wanderer | Speaking of God, is the universe determinate? |
| 21:31.56 | mheath | eh, Kind of. |
| 21:32.11 | mheath | Master Chief Electrician's Mate is the highest enlisted rank I can get. |
| 21:32.13 | Lone_Wanderer | mheath: it's an analogy, it's not meant to be perfect :p |
| 21:32.22 | mheath | *rate |
| 21:32.25 | elg | the real question is whether sandwiches are deterministic |
| 21:32.28 | harleypig | Lone_Wanderer: You mean self-determinate? |
| 21:32.33 | levi | harleypig: Uncertainty basically says that you can't know both the position and velocity of a particle with 100% accuracy. As the accuracy of one measurement goes up, the other goes down. |
| 21:32.39 | harleypig | right. |
| 21:32.40 | Lone_Wanderer | I mean is the outcome of the universe predetermined. |
| 21:32.48 | levi | No, he means deterministic. |
| 21:32.53 | Lone_Wanderer | Yes, deterministic, thank you. |
| 21:32.57 | harleypig | Like I said, to answer that, I'd have to drag God into the conversation. |
| 21:33.01 | levi | Given the same inputs, will the outputs always be the same? |
| 21:33.11 | levi | Heh. |
| 21:33.43 | harleypig | Lone_Wanderer: Ah. I didn't know that. I don't think so, because the universe is chaotic. |
| 21:33.43 | elg | scott adams (dilbert) thinks we have no free will. he often goes off about it on his blog. he sounds really silly, but his other posts are amusing enough to keep subscribed |
| 21:33.53 | levi | Quantum physics deals largely with probabilities, since you can't actually measure everything about a system. So, through the lens of quantum physics, things do not appear to be deterministic. |
| 21:33.55 | Lone_Wanderer | chaos can be deterministic. |
| 21:34.08 | Lone_Wanderer | It's just chaotically deterministic. |
| 21:34.53 | mheath | Oh, this is BS |
| 21:35.02 | mheath | You know how checks come with some free address labels? |
| 21:35.09 | Lone_Wanderer | Ja |
| 21:35.14 | elg | otoh he often exhorts people to do things (like not be stupid, or believe in his silly worldview, or refrain from voting, or whatever) which is of course pointless if they have no free will. but of course he believes he has no free will so he's got to do it anyway, I guess. it's all very circular |
| 21:35.16 | mheath | Apparently their address labels only support 4 lines of address |
| 21:35.19 | harleypig | Lone_Wanderer: My problem with all these limiting statements is that they were devised and formulated by man. And man has continually been improving on himself. How long before someone improves on the uncertainly principle? |
| 21:35.29 | mheath | So they gave me a ton of address labels with half my address on them. |
| 21:36.46 | Lone_Wanderer | harleypig: It seems that if the universe were non-deterministic, we'd be able to tell somehow. And if it were deterministic... well, it's possible that it's predetermined that nobody will ever perform the experiment that determines that :D |
| 21:37.01 | Lone_Wanderer | mheath: sounds like there's more paperwork in the future for you! |
| 21:37.17 | mheath | eh? |
| 21:37.24 | mheath | Don't know how I can fix this |
| 21:37.27 | Lone_Wanderer | check. address labels. broken. |
| 21:37.30 | mheath | They have my whole address |
| 21:37.32 | mheath | its correct on the check |
| 21:37.37 | mheath | they just chopped off half of it |
| 21:37.40 | harleypig | Lone_Wanderer: Maybe we just haven't advanced enough to be able to tell. |
| 21:37.45 | mheath | And the labels are free |
| 21:37.46 | Lone_Wanderer | You just write the rest of your address below the bottom of the label |
| 21:37.50 | mheath | what can I do, demand my money back? |
| 21:37.51 | levi | elg: Even if we don't have free will, we have the illusion of free will, and no choice but to act in the context of that illusion. ;) |
| 21:37.55 | Lone_Wanderer | harleypig: That's my guess. |
| 21:37.55 | mheath | Lone_Wanderer, that looks really professional :P |
| 21:38.01 | harleypig | We don't know enough about the universe or the laws in it to be certain of anything, including our uncertainty. |
| 21:38.15 | Lone_Wanderer | mheath: I know, I was being silly. |
| 21:38.18 | elg | levi: so what's the poit of arguing we have no free will then? |
| 21:38.24 | levi | elg: Not much. |
| 21:38.32 | Lone_Wanderer | If we're not free, then we're not free to not argue. |
| 21:38.32 | elg | since we wouldn't be able to break free, it would be pretty pointless |
| 21:38.35 | levi | elg: About as much point as the conversation we're currently having. :) |
| 21:38.44 | mheath | I hate having such a long address |
| 21:38.58 | elg | which I think is his reason too. too much fun not to. :) I don't think he even really believes it |
| 21:39.03 | elg | just does it to get a rise out of people |
| 21:39.05 | mheath | because all the online forms will only allow you to stick two lines of address |
| 21:39.16 | mheath | (plus name, city, state, zip) |
| 21:39.31 | levi | harleypig: Quantum physics has got a pretty good track record as far as experimental confirmation goes. |
| 21:39.51 | mheath | This looks nice though |
| 21:40.45 | mheath | "FN Michael T. Heath / Class 0723M / Naval Nuclear Power Training Command / 101 NNPTC Circle / Goose Creek, SC 29445" |
| 21:40.45 | Lone_Wanderer | mheath: Just cram a few of them onto the same line. |
| 21:40.45 | levi | harleypig: This is not to say that there is not some other more fundamental set of laws governing things, but those laws must coincide with the evidence we've gathered in support of quantum mechanics. |
| 21:40.51 | mheath | Lone_Wanderer, I normally do |
| 21:40.59 | mheath | But I couldn't do that for my checks, obviously |
| 21:41.00 | levi | At the scale in which we use quantum mechanics, at least. |
| 21:41.17 | mheath | and they used the same address for the check and the labels |
| 21:41.35 | Lone_Wanderer | ahh, I see I see |
| 21:41.36 | mheath | I usually put "Class 0723M / NNPTC" on one line |
| 21:41.37 | Lone_Wanderer | ICIC |
| 21:42.37 | mheath | bah, why do I miss it when they serve something really good in the galley? |
| 21:42.45 | mheath | They had king crab and I missed it! |
| 21:43.05 | Lone_Wanderer | Dude. |
| 21:43.07 | Lone_Wanderer | This is basic. |
| 21:43.23 | mheath | Eh? |
| 21:43.38 | Lone_Wanderer | The first thing you should do at every base (and ship, in your case) is get in good with the... I think it's called logistics in the military? |
| 21:43.52 | Lone_Wanderer | Or maybe not. I don't know. The people who cook, clean, and move stuff around. |
| 21:43.59 | mheath | uh |
| 21:44.11 | mheath | Thats called "hundreds of different people in dozens of departments" in the military :P |
| 21:44.12 | Lone_Wanderer | The service professions. They can make your life very happy or very miserable. |
| 21:44.25 | mheath | Lone_Wanderer, 90% of the galley is a civilian contractor |
| 21:44.29 | Lone_Wanderer | Right, whatever, doesn't matter. Make yourself useful to them. |
| 21:44.34 | Lone_Wanderer | Also doesn't matter. |
| 21:44.36 | tene | And how exactly do you "get in good" with them? |
| 21:44.37 | mheath | All the galley workers are handicapped |
| 21:44.39 | Lone_Wanderer | They're still people. |
| 21:44.59 | mheath | Some rich guy realized he could get a big tax break by A) serving the military and 2) hiring handicapped people |
| 21:45.06 | Lone_Wanderer | Well that just makes it easier. Give them candy. Hang out by the loading dock when shipments come in and offer a hand carrying stuff. |
| 21:45.11 | mheath | Uh |
| 21:45.18 | mheath | you haven't seen my days |
| 21:45.20 | Lone_Wanderer | These are just suggestions. |
| 21:45.23 | mheath | I can't go "hang out on the loading dock" :P |
| 21:45.36 | mheath | Speaking of which, I need to go eat and study |
| 21:45.41 | mheath | be back in probably around 5-6 hours. |
| 21:45.48 | Lone_Wanderer | So order a box of doughnuts on Friday morning for them, with a note attached saying "Courtesy of (your name and rank)" |
| 21:45.57 | mheath | Lone_Wanderer, heh. |
| 21:45.59 | levi | mheath: We'll be waiting patiently! |
| 21:46.08 | mheath | levi: I knew you would be. |
| 21:46.11 | Lone_Wanderer | Then they like you and tell you when King Crab is going to be served. Maybe even set some aside for you if you're not there. |
| 21:46.15 | mheath | You have no life without me. Admit it. |
| 21:46.46 | levi | mheath: Yup. Just as you suspected, the world... nay, the entire universe! revolves around you. ;) |
| 21:47.15 | mheath | haha |
| 21:47.24 | levi | Actually, when we are out of your perception, we don't really exist anymore. |
| 21:47.25 | Lone_Wanderer | Copernicus was right, but only until mheath was born. At that moment, the revolution of the universe changed. |
| 21:47.27 | levi | Thus the paitence. |
| 21:47.28 | mheath | that reminds me of Hitchhiker's Guide |
| 21:47.31 | mheath | or one of the books in the series |
| 21:47.41 | mheath | The machine that put the universe and your position in it in perspective for you |
| 21:48.05 | tene | http://youtube.com/watch?v=JRRLJ-v0KwM |
| 21:48.16 | levi | The Infinite Perspective Vortex, or whatever it was called. |
| 21:48.19 | Lone_Wanderer | Total Perspective Vortex |
| 21:48.33 | Lone_Wanderer | Maybe it was infinite. |
| 21:48.50 | mheath | Didn't it say that only one guy survived it because he discovered that the universe did indeed revolve around him, or something like that? |
| 21:48.50 | Lone_Wanderer | Was it Zaphod or Ford that got put into it? |
| 21:49.05 | tene | zaphod |
| 21:49.06 | mheath | It's been ages since I've read those books. |
| 21:49.07 | levi | No, it's Total. |
| 21:49.09 | levi | And it was Zaphod. |
| 21:49.12 | tene | but it was a different universe |
| 21:49.15 | Lone_Wanderer | Yes, it was either Zaphod or Ford. Because he'd entered a universe that had, in fact, been created for him. He exited it later. |
| 21:49.25 | Lone_Wanderer | That sounds more like Zaphod. |
| 21:49.35 | Lone_Wanderer | He's so hip he can barely tie his shoes, baby. |
| 21:49.44 | mheath | haha |
| 21:49.58 | mheath | OK, really. Time to commence with the studying. All ~5-6 hours of it :( |
| 21:53.26 | herlo | out of curiousity what does the + mean next to the size when you run fdisk -l ? |
| 21:53.38 | *** join/#utah beandog_ (n=sdibb@cg.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 21:54.23 | Lone_Wanderer | It means it's HUGE. |
| 21:54.40 | beandog_ | whats huge? |
| 21:54.45 | tene | positive bytes, not negative |
| 21:54.47 | Lone_Wanderer | You know. Really big. |
| 21:54.52 | beandog_ | oh |
| 21:54.52 | emcnabb | mheath: what time will you be back? |
| 22:00.59 | levi | emcnabb: <mheath> be back in probably around 5-6 hours. |
| 22:02.55 | thaddeusq | herlo: The plus sign indicates that not all the blocks are included in the fdisk value. |
| 22:06.51 | rsimpkins | Hi all. |
| 22:10.02 | elg | -lart emcheath |
| 22:10.02 | mrpull_ | ~links |
| 22:10.10 | ibot | Lynx-like text WWW browser. URL: http://artax.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~mikulas/links/ |
| 22:10.19 | elg | -urls |
| 22:10.30 | mrpull_ | rsimpkins: what's up? did you fill your sysadmin spots? |
| 22:10.45 | elg | that wus |
| 22:11.33 | *** join/#utah brac (n=rbot@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 22:12.05 | Lone_Wanderer | Does anyone here know where I can read up on recommendation engines? |
| 22:12.08 | Lone_Wanderer | I'm going to have to write one |
| 22:12.21 | beandog_ | seirously? |
| 22:12.23 | beandog_ | man that would be fun. |
| 22:12.25 | Lone_Wanderer | yeah |
| 22:12.31 | Lone_Wanderer | Why do you think I picked the project I did? ;) |
| 22:12.36 | beandog_ | heh |
| 22:12.37 | beandog_ | punk |
| 22:12.58 | beandog_ | whats the product line |
| 22:13.26 | Lone_Wanderer | one sec |
| 22:13.31 | Lone_Wanderer | (NDA :p) |
| 22:13.44 | beandog_ | heh |
| 22:13.53 | beandog_ | ~lart NDA |
| 22:14.20 | herlo | thaddeusq: thanks I figured it out about 2 minutes after I asked...you rock |
| 22:15.14 | Lone_Wanderer | levi: ping |
| 22:15.22 | levi | Lone_Wanderer: pong |
| 22:15.32 | Lone_Wanderer | Do you know anything about recommendation engines? |
| 22:16.12 | levi | Not really. |
| 22:16.26 | Lone_Wanderer | I'm so dissapointed. You know everything! |
| 22:16.42 | levi | Well, I know some things about them, but probably not very much. |
| 22:16.49 | levi | Do you have a specific question about them? |
| 22:16.59 | tene | levi: do you know anything about... functional programming? |
| 22:17.04 | tene | >.> |
| 22:17.14 | macnewbold | mheath: seriously, you can just use code names on stuff, and give it a time to complete, and keep the details private if you wanted. All it really cares about is what type of task (homework, reading, quiz, exam), the due date, and the estimated time to complete. Description is irrelevant to the scheduling. The grouping by class/topic is helpful, but again, you could code name them. Check out the privacy policy if you want, too. |
| 22:21.05 | Lone_Wanderer | "recommender systems are often implemented using search engines indexing non-traditional data" - looking at it that way makes the problem a lot easier. |
| 22:21.47 | levi | That's not a question. :) |
| 22:22.07 | Lone_Wanderer | What's not? Oh. I didn't see you ask if I had a specific question about them. |
| 22:23.07 | Lone_Wanderer | Nah, I just wikied it. |
| 22:28.14 | *** join/#utah thaddeusq (n=thaddeus@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com) |
| 22:34.36 | levi | Why do people hate 'end' in Ruby? |
| 22:35.48 | Lone_Wanderer | Because endings are sad. |
| 22:36.02 | Lone_Wanderer | I have when things are over, 'cause so much is left un done. |
| 22:36.06 | Lone_Wanderer | hate* |
| 22:37.13 | tristanbob | cool - got my Dell D620 today! Ubuntu 7.04 pre-release will be going on it momentarily |
| 22:37.41 | tristanbob | Dell's reported support for Novell on the Lattitudes will hopefully improve driver support for this laptop |
| 22:40.09 | tristanbob | my favorite part will be saying NO to the microsoft EULA |
| 22:40.17 | Lone_Wanderer | :D |
| 22:40.29 | macnewbold | hehe |
| 22:40.39 | Lone_Wanderer | Some Linux distro should put the MS EULA on their pre-install screen and require you to reject it. |
| 22:40.52 | tristanbob | it says "If you do not want to accept this agreement, click the Shutdown button." |
| 22:41.01 | tristanbob | Lone_Wanderer: neat idea! |
| 22:41.35 | Lone_Wanderer | or say "On the other hand, if you'd rather be free..." |
| 22:43.40 | tristanbob | my favorite part of Windows XP is the setup music. I almost don't want to hit "next" |
| 22:43.55 | tristanbob | it is like trance music |
| 22:46.25 | *** join/#utah wps_ (n=wps@67.108.236.230.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 22:47.01 | Lone_Wanderer | speaking of which... |
| 22:47.30 | *** join/#utah thaddeusq (n=thaddeus@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com) |
| 22:49.09 | Lone_Wanderer | O_O there's a cell merchant called "Metro Selular" |
| 22:49.28 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@dhcp08.cs.nmsu.edu) |
| 22:53.11 | mgeary | A Møøse once bit my sister |
| 22:54.20 | tensai | tristanbob: I wouldn't be surprised if that music is designed to put you into a trance |
| 22:57.31 | findlay | tensai: I play the viola and I practice on the organ and pianoforte when I get the opportunity |
| 22:59.10 | Lone_Wanderer | ahh, the pianoforte. such a new fangled instrument. |
| 22:59.19 | findlay | hm, this smells like a job for perlmagick |
| 22:59.21 | Lone_Wanderer | I personally prefer the harpsichord |
| 22:59.35 | findlay | heh, harpsichord |
| 22:59.50 | findlay | those pretentious instrumenten |
| 23:00.00 | Lone_Wanderer | It's the old standby. All that "dynamic range" stuff provides far too complex an interface. |
| 23:00.05 | findlay | real musicians pluck the strings by *hand*! |
| 23:00.29 | Lone_Wanderer | Push one key, get one note at one volume. That's the way I like it. |
| 23:00.55 | levi | Lone_Wanderer: Yeah; even if you bother using the dynamic range, the recording studio will compress it out before it's passed on to consumers anyway. :P |
| 23:00.59 | findlay | actually the nicer harpsichords I've seen have two keyboards and 6 pedals offering quite a variety of sounds |
| 23:01.07 | Lone_Wanderer | levi: touche! |
| 23:01.35 | Lone_Wanderer | findlay: I was trying to make an analogy between keyboard instruments and editors :p |
| 23:01.44 | findlay | levi: unless you're a silly audiophile and only listen to records on tubes |
| 23:01.51 | findlay | heh |
| 23:02.00 | Lone_Wanderer | Have you ever *heard* a record player with tubes? |
| 23:02.02 | levi | findlay: I prefer to get my music by dump truck. |
| 23:02.16 | Lone_Wanderer | The sound quality is amazing. |
| 23:02.18 | findlay | Lone_Wanderer: nope |
| 23:02.41 | Lone_Wanderer | I wouldn't have either I don't think, except I used to deliver TV's, and for some reason 90% of them went to old widows. |
| 23:02.59 | Lone_Wanderer | One of whom had an old turntable that still used vacuum tubes. They lit up and everything. |
| 23:03.33 | findlay | cool |
| 23:03.42 | Lone_Wanderer | And the sound quality was just incredible. I suspect that it was more of an artifact from the tubes than the actual quality of the recording |
| 23:04.15 | findlay | the later records from the 60s and 70s I bet if not were pretty hi fi at least had lots of spphisticated recording engineering behind them |
| 23:04.39 | Lone_Wanderer | Yeah, they must have gotten better with time. |
| 23:04.44 | macnewbold | oh noes! we agreed again! |
| 23:04.48 | findlay | I have a recording from 1958 that has better sound than some of the CDs I have from the 70s and 80s |
| 23:04.57 | tene | Huh. I'm surprised that this doesn't work: |
| 23:04.59 | tene | @first = map { pop split /\t/ } @list; |
| 23:05.04 | tene | perl complains with "Type of arg 1 to pop must be array (not split)" |
| 23:05.15 | Lone_Wanderer | The thing with a record is, you're limited in what you can do by the physical medium, so you can't make anything too "loud" or the needle will jump out of the track |
| 23:05.39 | Lone_Wanderer | but with CDs you can crank up the volume as much as you want, and if it clips it doesn't "matter" |
| 23:05.43 | tene | Oh. Nevermind. |
| 23:05.59 | findlay | Lone_Wanderer: I think digital resolution is good enough now or will soon become 'good enough' |
| 23:06.05 | Lone_Wanderer | Someone should write a filter that adds whatever tubes do to sound to digital music. |
| 23:06.14 | findlay | I'm sure they exist |
| 23:07.14 | Lone_Wanderer | findlay: look up "loudness war". It's not that the technology can't capture it, it's that it allows you to do things you couldn't before, which seem attractive but end up causing lower quality recording |
| 23:08.03 | beandog_ | a record player with tubes? |
| 23:08.07 | beandog_ | thats a new one. |
| 23:08.10 | beandog_ | record players do sound nice though |
| 23:08.40 | findlay | ~record beandog_ |
| 23:09.12 | beandog_ | meh, now that I think about it, those dont sound too good. |
| 23:09.28 | levi | tene: You just needed some parentheses, right? |
| 23:16.16 | Lone_Wanderer | Oh no. I just got a spam comment on my LJ. |
| 23:18.19 | levi | elg: So, what's the deal with so many people hating Ruby's 'end' syntax? |
| 23:18.26 | elg | got me |
| 23:18.30 | tene | levi: give an example of it |
| 23:18.34 | brac | give an example of a shockwave |
| 23:18.38 | elg | I didnt' like it at first (but didn't hate it), but it quickly grew on me |
| 23:18.42 | findlay | yeah, a shockwave |
| 23:18.45 | levi | brac: BOOM |
| 23:18.46 | tene | brac: shut up! |
| 23:18.50 | findlay | hehe |
| 23:18.56 | Lone_Wanderer | brac: I love you, man. I LOVE YOU. |
| 23:18.58 | findlay | ~bzfrag brac |
| 23:18.59 | ibot | ACTION squishes brac with a steamroller |
| 23:19.06 | tene | brac: tell your owner that you need to be taught to not speak unless spoken to |
| 23:19.07 | brac | incorrect usage, ask for help using 'brac: help tell' |
| 23:19.12 | tene | brac: brac |
| 23:19.14 | findlay | lol |
| 23:19.18 | elg | brac.chat_history.each do |m| tene.listen(m); end |
| 23:19.26 | Lone_Wanderer | Zorak prison pod |
| 23:19.29 | Lone_Wanderer | Brack Brack |
| 23:19.48 | elg | -markov probability 60 |
| 23:19.48 | brac | fine |
| 23:19.56 | tene | my objection to it would be using words for grouping |
| 23:19.59 | brac | my objection to it and post any questions or comments back to re-implementing my Chicken Scheme bindings to the newer version of at4.1 |
| 23:20.10 | tene | I see grouping as something that should involve grouping operators |
| 23:20.10 | Lone_Wanderer | I don't know what you're talking about. |
| 23:20.15 | brac | I don't trust your copy of the time, but I really need to find out. |
| 23:20.17 | tene | s/operators/symbols/ |
| 23:20.23 | brac | tene meant: I wasn't missing anything stupid on so many people hungry... |
| 23:20.29 | Lone_Wanderer | elg: did you just turn it way up? |
| 23:20.31 | levi | tene: Why should a symbol not be a word? |
| 23:20.35 | brac | Why should it be this user doesn't have any ideas about proper grammer. |
| 23:20.36 | brac | did you get that cleared up....... |
| 23:20.36 | findlay | dude |
| 23:20.38 | elg | -markov probability 1 |
| 23:20.38 | brac | aight |
| 23:20.42 | tene | -markov probability 0 |
| 23:20.42 | brac | insufficient "markov" auth (have 10, need 12) |
| 23:21.54 | Lone_Wanderer | sjansen: How do professionals who work during the day manage to take your classes? |
| 23:22.04 | elg | work sends them probably |
| 23:22.10 | elg | it *is* work |
| 23:22.41 | Lone_Wanderer | I'd like to take their classes, but I don't have time for it during the day, and I don't want to use my vacation time on it. |
| 23:22.52 | tene | levi: because I think it looks weird |
| 23:22.53 | elg | what's your job? |
| 23:23.00 | Lone_Wanderer | programming |
| 23:23.09 | elg | in linux? |
| 23:23.17 | Lone_Wanderer | no, web development |
| 23:23.26 | Lone_Wanderer | the classes wouldn't be directly work related |
| 23:23.39 | elg | you might get your work not only to send you but pay for it, depending on your employer and what you do |
| 23:23.56 | Lone_Wanderer | I might :p |
| 23:24.10 | levi | tene: Oh. Well, I'm afraid I can't help you with that problem. The usage does have quite a bit of precedent, though. |
| 23:24.29 | tene | levi: the only objections to it that I can think of are "it looks weird to me" |
| 23:24.48 | elg | that's fair. that's why I don't like python's __init__ and friends |
| 23:24.52 | tene | they're exactly equivalent to any other grouping word |
| 23:25.16 | elg | it's why i don't like camelcase in Java |
| 23:25.19 | tene | begin, (, [, {{{{{, whatever |
| 23:26.16 | tene | I don't have a *strong* objection to it |
| 23:26.23 | tene | I'm sure I'd be pretty fine with it if I used it much |
| 23:26.26 | elg | see, but some people do. |
| 23:26.31 | elg | they go absolutely berserk |
| 23:26.54 | elg | like this guy on the ruby mailing list the other day was fit to be tied because ruby has elsif instead of elseif |
| 23:27.05 | levi | Heh. |
| 23:27.10 | elg | me, I don't care because vim tells me if I get it wrong |
| 23:27.25 | tene | and you can't redefine that in ruby? |
| 23:27.39 | levi | That /is/ a bit on the lame side, but not something I'd complain much about. |
| 23:27.49 | tene | you can't write your own elseif at the beginning of each ruby script you write? |
| 23:28.01 | tene | macro, etc. |
| 23:28.26 | elg | i'd just as soon 'else if', but whatever |
| 23:28.34 | elg | i don't even mind elif when I'm in bash |
| 23:28.52 | elg | tene: sure if you want to run your script through m4 |
| 23:29.51 | tene | lame. |
| 23:30.15 | elg | why? |
| 23:30.36 | findlay | because m5 is better |
| 23:30.47 | elg | i can only think of C/C++ and maybe lisp that allow you to redefine syntax with clever macros |
| 23:30.59 | elg | all other languages you get the syntax the designer dreamed up |
| 23:31.08 | tene | perl |
| 23:31.11 | tene | ;) |
| 23:31.26 | elg | i wasn't aware that perl had macros |
| 23:31.38 | elg | it hardly proves the supremecy of the camel though |
| 23:31.48 | tene | use ACME::Pythonic; |
| 23:31.57 | tene | http://search.cpan.org/~fxn/Acme-Pythonic-0.45/lib/Acme/Pythonic.pm |
| 23:32.32 | elg | interesting, apple is hiring a core audio software engineer for windows |
| 23:32.32 | dataw0lf | yea, sure, Pythonic code is based purely on enforced whitespace |
| 23:32.33 | tene | that's in the "etc" part of my "macro, etc." |
| 23:32.33 | elg | "The success of Apple's media products demand excellent |
| 23:32.33 | elg | implementations of audio features both on the Mac OS X and Windows platforms. |
| 23:32.33 | elg | You will be responsible for a range of audio feature development, primarily on |
| 23:32.34 | elg | the Windows platform." |
| 23:34.42 | elg | levi: especially confusing is the fact that you can always use {} instead of begin/end (or do/end), so what are they so worked up about? |
| 23:35.09 | elg | the semantics are slightly different, but nothing that can't be solved with parenthesization in a pickle |
| 23:35.50 | levi | elg: You can redefine syntax in several other languages, too. |
| 23:35.51 | elg | no doubt the core reason is people who really don't like change are people who learn curly brace languages in the first place |
| 23:36.08 | elg | yes, but I'm thinking of mainstream languages |
| 23:36.20 | levi | Dylan, Template Haskell, OCamlp4, etc. |
| 23:36.24 | elg | java, php, etc |
| 23:36.29 | levi | perl to some degree, through source filtering. |
| 23:37.07 | levi | From what I understand, python now gives you some access to syntax trees to do some macro-like things. |
| 23:37.07 | elg | i think you could probably pull of source filtering with ruby if you felt like it. I don't see why not |
| 23:37.21 | levi | You probably shouldn't, though. |
| 23:37.56 | elg | i think allowing people to play with syntax is neat, especially when you start doing DSLs, but unless the language was minimalistic to begin with probably misguided |
| 23:38.02 | findlay | especially if you prefer your sources unfiltered |
| 23:39.54 | levi | Unless you are actually parsing the input language via a real parser that understands the language, you are likely to cause subtle errors somewhere. |
| 23:40.28 | elg | yup. I think it best that this only be done with languages designed to allow it readily |
| 23:40.29 | levi | Like the kinds of errors that C macros can cause. |
| 23:40.34 | elg | vs. languages where it's coincidentally possible |
| 23:41.13 | levi | Well, I wouldn't go quite that far, but the more complex the grammar for the base language is, the less sense it makes to do it. |
| 23:42.04 | levi | Though, Haskell has a fairly complex syntax, yet it has Template Haskell. |
| 23:42.24 | levi | At least the syntax is well-specified. :) |
| 23:46.11 | Lone_Wanderer | Does anyone know if the netflix recommendation engine prize is still open? |
| 23:47.20 | mgeary | http://www.netflixprize.com/ |
| 23:47.40 | Lone_Wanderer | Thank you mgoogleary. |
| 23:47.59 | mgeary | you got an entry? |
| 23:48.19 | Lone_Wanderer | No but I had an idea that may be completely not what they're looking for. |
| 23:48.39 | mgeary | last leaderboard submission was today, so they're obviously still accepting submissions. can't see whether they're closed to new registrations |
| 23:48.59 | Lone_Wanderer | cool |
| 23:49.17 | dataw0lf | screw leaderboards |
| 23:49.22 | dataw0lf | why compete when you can win? |
| 23:49.27 | dataw0lf | think about it for a while. |
| 23:49.30 | Lone_Wanderer | My idea is to have forums where you can discuss various film genres |
| 23:49.30 | dataw0lf | it applies only to me. |
| 23:50.00 | Lone_Wanderer | and the people who participate in the different forums can vote movies up or down, as well as having their posts voted up or down by their peers |
| 23:50.12 | dataw0lf | you can base social sites on poo, for crikey's sake |
| 23:50.17 | dataw0lf | ratemypoo.com |
| 23:50.21 | dataw0lf | just sayin' |
| 23:50.35 | dataw0lf | social sites are the right direction, but not the right technology nor mindset |
| 23:50.46 | Lone_Wanderer | so if Bob in the Film Noir forum writes several posts and gets them rated up consistently, he's likely to be a recognized community expert on noir films, and therefore his recommendations should carry more weight |
| 23:50.58 | dataw0lf | we need to alleviate servers by actually creating pure parallel processing networks |
| 23:51.02 | dataw0lf | trust me, it's in the cards |
| 23:51.10 | Lone_Wanderer | dataw0lf: are you saying my idea is bad, or what? I'm not following you. |
| 23:51.14 | dataw0lf | A SETI myspace, I promise |
| 23:51.25 | dataw0lf | Lone_Wanderer: I'm just saying it's following the current, almost dead, trend |
| 23:51.36 | dataw0lf | I'm sure you could gather a following |
| 23:51.44 | dataw0lf | we'll see |
| 23:51.56 | Lone_Wanderer | Maybe in the form they exist now, sure. But people like to get together and talk about stuff they enjoy. |
| 23:52.00 | Lone_Wanderer | Look at this channel :p |
| 23:52.03 | dataw0lf | well, obviously |
| 23:52.04 | dataw0lf | that's people |
| 23:52.16 | dataw0lf | I'm just saying you're applying old technology to the new problem |
| 23:52.22 | dataw0lf | how to transparently link people |
| 23:52.29 | elg | in any case it doesn't fit the contest |
| 23:52.34 | dataw0lf | I think the internet will evolve based upon that whole premis |
| 23:52.44 | Lone_Wanderer | elg: that's what I figured. |
| 23:52.48 | dataw0lf | premise* |
| 23:53.05 | Lone_Wanderer | dataw0lf: transparently link? |
| 23:53.27 | dataw0lf | a community that isn't based upon specific servers, nor central gathering places, except for those they invent |
| 23:53.41 | dataw0lf | revolutionary changes are going to come client side |
| 23:53.44 | Lone_Wanderer | Sounds like Teh Forum |
| 23:53.58 | dataw0lf | still based on old tech |
| 23:54.20 | Lone_Wanderer | They started out in Usenet, moved to Delphi Forums, then wrote their own forum software when Delphi went.. umm. Died. |
| 23:54.39 | dataw0lf | the next step in evolution is extensions to browsers |
| 23:54.42 | dataw0lf | stumbleupon |
| 23:55.23 | dataw0lf | etc |
| 23:55.23 | Lone_Wanderer | Right, but it's the same community, which has remained consistent (including Trigg, the guy they love to hate) across several formats. |
| 23:55.23 | dataw0lf | these are steps in the right direction |
| 23:55.23 | dataw0lf | I don't know how that applies to my argument. That communities can evolve with technology? That's obvious. |
| 23:55.23 | Lone_Wanderer | They'd be open to experimenting with different ways to... forue, I'm sure. |
| 23:55.23 | dataw0lf | But we're in the technology business |
| 23:55.28 | dataw0lf | and we're supposed to pioneer |
| 23:55.30 | dataw0lf | hopefully anyways |
| 23:55.56 | Lone_Wanderer | Well, you said "a community that isn't based upon specific servers, nor central gathering places, except for those they invent", which describes them. |
| 23:56.14 | Lone_Wanderer | They move servers often, and keep creating new places for their group to gather online. |
| 23:56.22 | Lone_Wanderer | Although at any given time they are tied to a single server. |
| 23:56.34 | dataw0lf | I'm talking about an interface where you plug into a network and every aspect of the network is represented by single clients or collections of clients |
| 23:56.38 | Lone_Wanderer | It'd be cool if there were a peer to peer way for them to do it. |
| 23:56.41 | dataw0lf | a rethinking of the internet |
| 23:56.46 | levi | dataw0lf: What your describing sounds like some sort of decentralized identity/reputation system, so that a community can exist across the entire internet rather than just in a specific server or two. |
| 23:56.55 | dataw0lf | levi: well put. |
| 23:56.58 | elg | the internet was *founded* on the idea of connecting disparate nodes together |
| 23:57.22 | dataw0lf | sure, but ideas, communities, technology have collected around CENTRAL nodes |
| 23:57.28 | dataw0lf | I'm talking about a decentralized internet |
| 23:57.35 | elg | the internet is decentralize |
| 23:57.42 | elg | d |
| 23:57.46 | Lone_Wanderer | dataw0lf: I think "decentralized web site" may be a better way to say it. |
| 23:57.54 | dataw0lf | elg: really? how so? |
| 23:58.04 | dataw0lf | the internet has just become more and more centralized over years. |
| 23:58.06 | Lone_Wanderer | Since a web site currently is generally based on a single server or cluster or servers. |
| 23:58.12 | levi | elg: I believe his point is that communities are based on identity and reputation, and the means of tracking those are very site-specific. |
| 23:58.25 | dataw0lf | probably due to capitalism, but I'm no internet economist |
| 23:58.26 | levi | elg: Or, in some cases, protocol-specific. |
| 23:58.34 | elg | i agree with his point, not his words |
| 23:58.55 | dataw0lf | you can't really agree that the internet has become more decentralized |
| 23:58.57 | levi | I.e., Usenet was distributed throughout the internet, but it crossed only with your SMTP idenity. |
| 23:59.01 | dataw0lf | it's the exact opposite |
| 23:59.05 | elg | the internet is no more a bunch of centralized communites and websites than it is a series of tubes |
| 23:59.39 | dataw0lf | I'm not saying 'centralized communities'; the whole point of a community is to be centralized |
| 23:59.44 | dataw0lf | I'm talking about underlying technology |
| 23:59.57 | elg | well whatever, you're not talking about the internet. you're talking about the stuff that runs on the internet |