| 00:10.15 | Lone_Wanderer | Is there any such thing as bluetooth headphones? |
| 00:10.32 | Lone_Wanderer | I'm tethered to my computer and it's annoying. |
| 00:10.47 | tene | Lone_Wanderer: yes, quite |
| 00:10.56 | tene | I have a pair that are quite nice. :) |
| 00:10.59 | harleypig | Lone_Wanderer: Yeah, but they are like Sister Missionaries. |
| 00:11.04 | brac | I have something like 200-250. |
| 00:11.47 | Lone_Wanderer | Sister Missionaries? |
| 00:11.47 | harleypig | They're either really good or really bad. |
| 00:11.47 | Lone_Wanderer | Come in pairs and... are dressed well? |
| 00:11.47 | tene | don't ever use them anymore because I forget to charge them |
| 00:11.47 | Lone_Wanderer | ahhhh |
| 00:11.47 | tene | brac: bots should only speak when spoken to |
| 00:13.48 | harleypig | I've only met one woman I wanted to smack within 15 minutes of meeting her, and she was a sister missionary in my mission. |
| 00:15.13 | levi | Hah, this is hilarious: http://www.sneakmove.com/2007/03/video-help-police.html |
| 00:15.18 | brac | [sneakmove: video: "help the police"] |
| 00:17.28 | harleypig | levi: that's funny |
| 00:21.45 | *** join/#utah beandog__ (n=sdibb@cg.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 00:22.09 | harleypig | Hmm ... I may have been wrong about the headphones ... plantronics is pretty good and someone is selling a set from them for about $25 |
| 00:26.59 | Lone_Wanderer | -chat about illegal danish |
| 00:26.59 | brac | illegal danish |
| 00:27.05 | Lone_Wanderer | -chat about super snacks |
| 00:27.05 | brac | super snacks |
| 00:27.08 | Lone_Wanderer | :( |
| 00:27.23 | harleypig | -chat about monkeys |
| 00:27.23 | brac | monkeys did |
| 00:27.34 | harleypig | -chat about monkeys flying |
| 00:27.35 | brac | monkeys flying |
| 00:27.44 | harleypig | -chat about monkeys chewing bubblegum |
| 00:27.45 | brac | incorrect usage, ask for help using 'brac: help chat' |
| 00:27.50 | Lone_Wanderer | -chat about brac is |
| 00:27.51 | brac | brac is just around the problem lies. entertainment & industry. |
| 00:28.03 | Lone_Wanderer | -chat about css sucks |
| 00:28.03 | brac | css sucks |
| 00:28.23 | harleypig | brac doesn't do msg? |
| 00:28.23 | brac | dunno |
| 00:28.27 | harleypig | brac: help chat |
| 00:28.28 | brac | markov plugin: listens to chat to build a markov chain, with which it can (perhaps) attempt to (inanely) contribute to 'discussion'. Sort of.. Will get a *lot* better after listening to a lot of chat. usage: 'markov' to attempt to say something relevant to the last line of chat, if it can. other options to markov: 'ignore' => ignore a hostmask (accept no input), 'status' => show |
| 00:28.29 | brac | current status, 'probability' => set the % chance of rbot responding to input, 'chat' => try and say something intelligent, 'chat about <foo> <bar>' => riff on a word pair (if possible) |
| 00:29.01 | harleypig | -chat about foo bar |
| 00:29.01 | brac | foo bar || echo failed |
| 00:29.10 | findlay | is there a way in SQL to require that there can be only one record in a table with a particular value set? |
| 00:29.17 | findlay | do you have to use a trigger? |
| 00:29.24 | harleypig | findlay: LIMIT |
| 00:29.32 | findlay | hm |
| 00:29.32 | harleypig | oops |
| 00:29.47 | harleypig | sorry, you're talking about the definition, not the query, right? |
| 00:29.59 | Lone_Wanderer | I'm going to write a TCP/IP script in Python to thingie my something or other. |
| 00:30.05 | Lone_Wanderer | brac: markov |
| 00:30.05 | brac | insufficient "markov" auth (have 10, need 12) |
| 00:30.21 | harleypig | Lone_Wanderer: that's vaguely disgusting/pornographic/interesting. |
| 00:30.28 | Sargun | Lone_Wanderer, ? |
| 00:30.33 | findlay | I'm asking that with one table can you have only one record with a bool field set? |
| 00:30.40 | Lone_Wanderer | Just trying to get Brac to say something interesting. |
| 00:31.14 | findlay | so that no other record tries to set it |
| 00:31.27 | harleypig | findlay: I don't think so, at least not without some pl in there. |
| 00:31.34 | findlay | ok |
| 00:31.41 | harleypig | You mean you can have 50 rows of false, but only one of true? |
| 00:31.54 | findlay | I guess |
| 00:32.06 | findlay | I want one record to be the 'default' one |
| 00:32.18 | harleypig | ? If you're not sure then you'll have a hard time figuring out the solution ... |
| 00:32.31 | findlay | tell me about it (: |
| 00:32.34 | brac | tell me that's not really enforce those standards |
| 00:32.49 | findlay | brac: what do you know/ |
| 00:32.51 | harleypig | brac, you're markov chain needs work. |
| 00:32.59 | Sargun | Is brac a real person? |
| 00:32.59 | harleypig | err ... your |
| 00:33.01 | Sargun | or a bnot? |
| 00:33.09 | harleypig | sargun: a bnot? :> |
| 00:33.12 | harleypig | it's a bot. |
| 00:33.24 | findlay | ibot: brac is also a bnot |
| 00:33.26 | ibot | findlay: okay |
| 00:33.52 | harleypig | findlay: why not make the 'default' portion handled in your code? |
| 00:34.02 | harleypig | or are you trying to make everything work in your sql? |
| 00:34.23 | findlay | I like to keep things at the DB layer if possible |
| 00:34.51 | findlay | because although the database has a front end now, it may not be the only on elater on |
| 00:35.10 | harleypig | What's the db? |
| 00:35.15 | findlay | postgres |
| 00:35.40 | harleypig | pg has a couple of different pl's by default, doesn't it? |
| 00:35.52 | harleypig | I don't see how you're going to do what you want with pure sql. |
| 00:36.01 | harleypig | But I'm not an expert in sql. |
| 00:36.17 | findlay | I just meant SQL to generally indicate DB layer |
| 00:36.39 | findlay | as you say, I don't know much :) |
| 00:37.07 | harleypig | ? I didn't say *you* don't know much! |
| 00:37.19 | findlay | well, I don't |
| 00:37.40 | findlay | before, you were saying I'd have a hard time deciding if I didn't know |
| 00:37.46 | beandog_ | eh? |
| 00:37.51 | beandog_ | what are you trying to do in sql? |
| 00:38.01 | findlay | beandog_: have a default record |
| 00:38.15 | beandog_ | like a default value? |
| 00:38.16 | *** join/#utah tewk (n=tewk@64.58.232.132) |
| 00:38.23 | harleypig | findlay: oic |
| 00:38.33 | beandog_ | what db |
| 00:38.35 | harleypig | beandog_: no, he wants to have a default row. |
| 00:38.39 | findlay | default is not quite the right word, more like only one record can be 'it' |
| 00:38.52 | beandog_ | can be what? |
| 00:39.00 | tewk | Any good recommendations for an opensource php framework, or php ecommerce or shopping cart packages? |
| 00:39.15 | Lone_Wanderer | tewk: join #uphpu |
| 00:39.16 | harleypig | and a row that has a boolean flag. there can be multiple false settings, but only one true setting (i think) |
| 00:39.29 | harleypig | tewk: Template-Toolkit |
| 00:39.32 | beandog_ | witw are you trying to do |
| 00:39.42 | findlay | specifically I have a table for pictures, and I want to be able to distinguish a plain product picture versus one that has been modified |
| 00:39.45 | tewk | harleypig: don't lead me astray :) |
| 00:39.50 | harleypig | :> |
| 00:39.51 | findlay | tewk: I like to avoid that question :-) |
| 00:40.01 | Lone_Wanderer | tewk: steer clear of OSCommerce, getting into that is just asking to get quagmired. |
| 00:40.15 | beandog_ | mmm .. quagmires |
| 00:40.34 | findlay | do they taste good? |
| 00:40.42 | findlay | like fowl? |
| 00:40.46 | Lone_Wanderer | Try cakephp |
| 00:41.46 | Lone_Wanderer | and zen cart for an ecommerce system |
| 00:42.06 | harleypig | findlay: Or do you mean you want to have multiple rows associated with the same set and allow multiple sets int he same table? |
| 00:42.07 | tene | http://www.qcodo.com/ -- PHP MVC framework I saw someone talking about today |
| 00:42.11 | brac | [Qcodo - PHP Development Framework] |
| 00:42.15 | tene | haven't looked at it enough yet to know if it's any good or not |
| 00:42.36 | harleypig | So each set can have only one true row? |
| 00:42.59 | findlay | harleypig, beandog_: I've figured out how to do it |
| 00:43.12 | harleypig | I'm curious ... how? |
| 00:43.22 | beandog_ | good, cuz I couldnt even figure out what you were trying to do. :) |
| 00:43.56 | findlay | I'll just set the default as the one that doesn't have a foreign key association. The 'only one, really' requirement isn't as important since this data will be entered by hand |
| 00:58.48 | *** part/#utah phinux (n=phinux@atropine.cs.byu.edu) |
| 00:59.21 | *** part/#utah harleypig (n=harleypi@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 01:20.32 | *** join/#utah nick125_lappy (n=nick@nat.nick125.com) |
| 01:23.29 | dataw0lf | Jayce^: 17 kills, 2 deaths in a 2 hour scenario ball match |
| 01:24.37 | Sargun | ? |
| 01:24.44 | *** join/#utah vontrapp (n=von@71.35.254.49) |
| 01:27.56 | dataw0lf | Sargun scenario paintball |
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| 01:37.05 | *** join/#utah nick125_lappy (n=nick@nat.nick125.com) |
| 01:45.06 | elg | mmmmm, another sourdough pizza success |
| 02:29.55 | spr | nothing beats procrastinating homework to work on open-source |
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| 03:11.02 | mheath | Wow. |
| 03:11.07 | mheath | That was quite boring. |
| 03:25.15 | Sargun | hi |
| 03:27.48 | mheath | Hello. |
| 03:34.05 | *** join/#utah linuxalien (i=UNKNOWN@oalug/member/linuxalien) |
| 03:45.46 | Sargun | mheath, What's up? |
| 03:50.32 | *** join/#utah tiwula (n=lane@208.64.90.18.utahbroadband.com) |
| 03:51.02 | mheath | Sargun: ironing and shining shoes. |
| 03:52.03 | Sargun | Doesn't sound too fun |
| 03:53.03 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 03:53.14 | mheath | Sargun: It's not. Particularly not after 10 hours of class, 3.5 hours of studying, and 2 hours of watch. |
| 03:54.54 | Sargun | At least watch went smoothly. |
| 03:55.18 | mheath | actually, I made it sound a little worse than it is |
| 03:55.27 | mheath | 2 hours of watch was actually part of the 3.5 hours of studying |
| 03:55.30 | mheath | Night Study Watch |
| 03:55.37 | mheath | make sure the classroom maintains order / discipline |
| 03:55.46 | mheath | but I'm allowed to study |
| 03:55.54 | mheath | and the time counts towards my program |
| 04:02.31 | Sargun | how do they expect you to maintain order? |
| 04:02.41 | nick125_lappy | hey.. |
| 04:13.42 | mheath | What do you mean? |
| 04:13.55 | mheath | If someone talks, you send them to quiet study |
| 04:14.01 | mheath | You make sure no classified stuff leaves the classroo |
| 04:14.07 | mheath | etc. |
| 05:08.00 | nick125_lappy | Okay, this is retarded |
| 05:08.14 | nick125_lappy | I can't get the nvidia drivers to compile because they use a GPL-only symbol |
| 05:09.38 | Sargun | :-( |
| 05:10.30 | nick125_lappy | I swear, this licensing **** is getting on my nerves |
| 05:10.37 | nick125_lappy | I can't run the software I want to! |
| 05:14.09 | atoponce | nick125_lappy: ? |
| 05:15.22 | tene | nick125_lappy: if you disagree with the license of something, don't use it. |
| 05:15.28 | nick125_lappy | atoponce: They added a "feature" in 2.6.20, where they can make a symbol GPL-only |
| 05:15.40 | ScytheBlade1 | nick125 |
| 05:15.43 | ScytheBlade1 | Linux ksb 2.6.20 #9 SMP Wed Feb 21 18:59:56 MST 2007 x86_64 AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 4200+ AuthenticAMD GNU/Linux |
| 05:15.47 | ScytheBlade1 | Module Size Used by |
| 05:15.48 | nick125_lappy | where GPL-only modules will compile |
| 05:15.48 | ScytheBlade1 | nvidia 7744728 40 |
| 05:15.50 | tene | nick125_lappy: if you want to use those symbols, you have to respect their licenses. |
| 05:15.56 | nick125_lappy | ScytheBlade1: try enabling paravirt |
| 05:16.02 | ScytheBlade1 | paravirt? |
| 05:16.13 | nick125_lappy | KVM |
| 05:16.35 | atoponce | nick125_lappy: you're trying ubuntu, right? |
| 05:16.42 | nick125_lappy | I have no idea why the nvidia drivers would pull a symbol from paravirt |
| 05:16.46 | nick125_lappy | atoponce: that's on my gentoo box |
| 05:16.58 | ScytheBlade1 | nick125_lappy, It's enabled. |
| 05:17.02 | ScytheBlade1 | CONFIG_KVM=y |
| 05:17.04 | atoponce | ahh. i see. |
| 05:17.24 | nick125_lappy | ScytheBlade1: Hrm... |
| 05:17.31 | nick125_lappy | ScytheBlade1: What distribution? |
| 05:17.41 | ScytheBlade1 | Gentoo Base System release 1.12.9 |
| 05:17.44 | tene | nick125_lappy: that's equivalent to whining about "I want a copy of Windows for free." |
| 05:17.59 | tene | the license for windows says "you can't use this without paying money" |
| 05:18.24 | tene | The license for whatever part of the kernel has that setting is "You can't use this with non-free kernel modules" |
| 05:18.33 | tene | If you don't agree with that license, don't use it. |
| 05:19.24 | tene | That's like a vegan whining about not being able to eat meat because their moral system doesn't consider it food anymore. |
| 05:19.44 | nick125_lappy | It would be nice if there were actually decent GPL'ed nvidia drivers, then I wouldn't really mind |
| 05:19.58 | ScytheBlade1 | All I can say, is "works here" |
| 05:20.04 | nick125_lappy | I don't want to deal with politics, I simply want my system to work! |
| 05:20.16 | tene | Also, if you disagree with me, just ignore me or tell me to shut up. I'm not very coherent tonight. Probably shouldn't be talking on IRC. |
| 05:20.31 | nick125_lappy | atoponce: Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeek |
| 05:20.40 | atoponce | ~shut tene |
| 05:20.45 | ScytheBlade1 | atoponce, are you overly drugged? |
| 05:20.55 | atoponce | ScytheBlade1: nope. feeling fine. |
| 05:21.07 | ScytheBlade1 | atoponce, I'd assume you're speaking of Windows then |
| 05:21.13 | atoponce | ScytheBlade1: nope. |
| 05:21.33 | nick125_lappy | nouveau seems interesting.. |
| 05:21.45 | ScytheBlade1 | atoponce, I had a 9700 PRO... in linux, it was pulling equal framerates of an NVidia card that of FOUR GENERATIONS ago |
| 05:21.49 | ScytheBlade1 | Utter *crap* |
| 05:22.23 | ScytheBlade1 | If you want a 2D card, then anything works at all |
| 05:22.40 | ScytheBlade1 | The only reason to buy ATI/NV is for 3D though |
| 05:22.49 | atoponce | i want a good looking system, but i don't need my windows to swoosh around the screen making noises and fancy wobbles |
| 05:23.12 | atoponce | actually, matrox is solid. ati is overkill for my needs |
| 05:23.24 | ScytheBlade1 | Okay, you're classified as sane again |
| 05:23.45 | atoponce | thanks. glad i meet #utah approval. :) |
| 05:24.06 | ScytheBlade1 | Haha, took the words out of my mouth |
| 05:24.37 | ScytheBlade1 | As long as you're not doing any 3D hardware accel, yeah, ATI will "work" |
| 05:24.44 | ScytheBlade1 | Okay, that makes more sense then |
| 05:24.50 | nick125_lappy | Does anyone here actually think nouveau will be successful? |
| 05:25.05 | ScytheBlade1 | I think it will, just a matter of when. |
| 05:26.01 | nick125_lappy | I mean, they got 14k of money |
| 05:26.23 | atoponce | ScytheBlade1: i will say, though, that i have had *no* issues, whatsoever, using the radeon driver to power beryl. nv couldn't pull it off |
| 05:26.54 | ScytheBlade1 | atoponce, radeon or fglrx? |
| 05:26.56 | atoponce | nv was choppy and sluggish. radeon "just worked" |
| 05:27.20 | atoponce | radeon, iirc. it was on ubuntu, and i don't think i had multiverse enabled |
| 05:27.23 | atoponce | could be wrong though |
| 05:27.38 | ScytheBlade1 | fglrx is the non-free one |
| 05:27.41 | atoponce | yeah |
| 05:27.43 | ScytheBlade1 | radon is the open source one |
| 05:27.47 | atoponce | right |
| 05:27.55 | atoponce | radeon and ati |
| 05:28.13 | ScytheBlade1 | What card do you have? |
| 05:28.58 | atoponce | it was on a work machine. i think it was a 9200 pro, vs a geforce 5600... i *think* |
| 05:29.14 | ScytheBlade1 | That makes a bit more sense then |
| 05:29.47 | atoponce | aren't they fairly comparable cards? |
| 05:30.05 | ScytheBlade1 | They are, but I believe the 9200 is actually a generation older |
| 05:31.06 | ScytheBlade1 | To be honest, the 5X00 series were utter crap. |
| 05:31.26 | atoponce | well, there you go. |
| 05:31.58 | ScytheBlade1 | I think the earlier generation pulled better framerates than the 5X00 did |
| 05:32.03 | atoponce | not being a gamer, i wasn't familiar with the cards, and just wanted dual-head, but thought i'd try beryl in the process |
| 05:32.29 | atoponce | ati won for the dual head also. i couldn't get nv to work to save my life |
| 05:32.45 | ScytheBlade1 | It seems to be a crapshoot between the two, depending on who does the driver install |
| 05:32.59 | ScytheBlade1 | I've NEVER had a distro make the NV or ATI driver work properly, and I always wind up doing it by hand |
| 05:33.19 | atoponce | yeah. in both cases, i had to modify my xorg.conf by hand |
| 05:33.34 | nick125_lappy | Hrm....this is fun...ubuntu doesn't boot properly here with the bootsplash.. |
| 05:33.35 | ScytheBlade1 | The NV driver actually does that for you now, and does a *very* good job of it |
| 05:33.36 | atoponce | which isn't a big deal. i've done dual monitors in linux before |
| 05:34.38 | tene | ScytheBlade1: nvidia drivers work just fine for me in FC |
| 05:34.38 | atoponce | ScytheBlade1: i couldn't get it to work. the 2nd monitor was flashing funny colors at me when configured |
| 05:34.39 | ScytheBlade1 | tene, color me impressed |
| 05:34.39 | ScytheBlade1 | atoponce, hehe, good times :) |
| 05:34.39 | tene | ScytheBlade1: livna++ |
| 05:34.39 | ScytheBlade1 | livna? |
| 05:34.46 | atoponce | ScytheBlade1: also, couldn't get the native 1440x900 res on my monitor. kept giving me 1440x1024, which was annoying |
| 05:35.09 | ScytheBlade1 | atoponce, I've got dual-head NV setup now actually... 1440x900 and 1680x1050 |
| 05:35.10 | nick125_lappy | And X won't start either..........ugh |
| 05:35.31 | atoponce | the problem with the ati card, though, is it's dvi/vga, and the the dvi-to-vga converter is washing out the color |
| 05:35.35 | atoponce | drives me nuts |
| 05:35.39 | ScytheBlade1 | Ouch |
| 05:35.55 | atoponce | that was the whole reason i was on a monitor card hunt to begin with |
| 05:35.58 | atoponce | :( |
| 05:36.21 | ScytheBlade1 | I've used both ATI and NV - from their low end to their high end |
| 05:36.26 | atoponce | white to light colors are washed, making the rest of the display faded and bright |
| 05:36.41 | ScytheBlade1 | If you really want quality, in everything that I've noticed, go NV |
| 05:36.42 | atoponce | i bet, though, if i got a better converter, it would do fine. not sure though |
| 05:37.37 | atoponce | problem is, i don't have the $$$ to buy a dvi lcd monitor, and it's tough finding dual vga cards these days |
| 05:37.53 | ScytheBlade1 | They're cheap now |
| 05:38.25 | atoponce | we really don't need a 2nd monitor anyway- we have 7 for 2 employees! :) |
| 05:38.35 | atoponce | s/2nd/another/ |
| 05:38.50 | ScytheBlade1 | haha |
| 05:38.59 | ScytheBlade1 | At least you won't run out ;) |
| 05:39.05 | atoponce | true true |
| 05:39.33 | ScytheBlade1 | One last thing before I head to bed |
| 05:39.54 | ScytheBlade1 | In ALL of my experiences, NV has the quality and linux support market |
| 05:40.21 | ScytheBlade1 | I have a GF4MX440... which I purchased in 2001 or so, which is still running *fine* |
| 05:40.30 | ScytheBlade1 | And gets better framerates in linux than windows ;) |
| 05:40.37 | ScytheBlade1 | My ATI 9700P, though |
| 05:40.46 | ScytheBlade1 | Died a slow, horrible, long death |
| 05:40.53 | ScytheBlade1 | And never really worked in the first place under linux |
| 05:41.42 | ScytheBlade1 | (Under windows, the 9700P would literally run circles around the GF4 card... nine to ten times the speed at four times the detail, etc.) |
| 05:41.58 | ScytheBlade1 | In linux, it performed far worse than the GF4 :) |
| 05:42.32 | ScytheBlade1 | Regardless, there's my bit of corporate sponsorship of closed sources kernel modules for the night |
| 05:42.44 | atoponce | :) |
| 05:43.00 | ScytheBlade1 | I'm off to sleep, night all |
| 05:43.01 | ScytheBlade1 | zzz |
| 05:43.14 | elg | my radeon 9000 isn't a great 3d card but was decent at the time and always worked well, and serves me well as a tvout card now |
| 05:43.20 | elg | no wait, 7000 I think |
| 05:43.46 | elg | yeah |
| 05:44.14 | tene | goozbach: ping |
| 05:44.16 | *** part/#utah tewk (n=tewk@64.58.232.132) |
| 05:45.38 | atoponce | not being a gamer, i've never counted framerates, polygon counting, or any of that snazz. for me, the video card is a means to an end, and ati has always delivered, where nv crapped out |
| 05:45.54 | atoponce | especially lately |
| 05:47.09 | tene | nvidia has always delivered quite well for me |
| 05:47.24 | atoponce | to each their own, i guess. i don't really care. whatever works. |
| 05:47.56 | tene | exactly |
| 06:17.16 | nick125_lappy | Ugh... |
| 06:17.18 | nick125_lappy | this sucks |
| 06:17.32 | nick125_lappy | on my ubuntu box, Xorg segfaults with the vesa driver |
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| 07:59.11 | burnthegreat | hey synic |
| 08:43.32 | Sargun | hi |
| 13:21.01 | goozbach | tene: pong |
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| 13:49.02 | herlo | http://awkwardthingsisaytogirls.com/2007/02/why-geeks-make-good-lovers/ |
| 13:49.32 | herlo | worth a read.... |
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| 14:18.49 | goozbach | damn you herlo, now I'm reading the back log of that blog, instead of preparing for my presentation this evening |
| 14:25.56 | goozbach | HERLLOO!!!!</James T Kirk> |
| 14:30.38 | jsmith | goozbach: What's your presentation on? |
| 14:33.36 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 14:33.48 | goozbach | jsmith: Virtulization |
| 14:33.52 | elg | -chat |
| 14:33.53 | brac | i bought a 19" LCD monitor, which arrived on Friday. |
| 14:33.54 | goozbach | focused on Xen |
| 14:34.00 | goozbach | brac: congrats |
| 14:34.07 | elg | brac: really? where did you hide it? |
| 14:34.08 | brac | dunno |
| 14:34.44 | goozbach | I can see it now... brac starts wanting faster/nicer hardware to run on and starts ordering it. |
| 14:35.01 | goozbach | elg: pull the plug while you still can. |
| 14:35.57 | goozbach | unless brac ends up being benovolent like Jane, not bent on destroying all carbon-based life forms like all other forms of AI |
| 14:36.32 | *** join/#utah Migs (n=migs@205.122.50.69) |
| 14:39.03 | goozbach | there's Jane from the ender's series; what other "good" AI's are there? |
| 14:39.42 | graphyx | I thought that neruomancer had a benevolent AI in it |
| 14:39.46 | graphyx | Wintermute |
| 14:39.58 | goozbach | does HAL9000 count as "good"? he killed the crew of the discovery, but eventually saved the entire human race |
| 14:40.21 | redbeard1 | goozbach: how did he eventually save the human race? |
| 14:40.33 | graphyx | Then there is Daniel from I robot movie |
| 14:40.40 | goozbach | redbeard1: read 3001 |
| 14:40.45 | goozbach | it's not in the movie |
| 14:40.51 | brac | it's not as think as you would install sha1sum on that one |
| 14:41.00 | graphyx | is that book boring? |
| 14:41.03 | goozbach | it's in "The Final Oddesy" |
| 14:41.13 | goozbach | I rather enjoyed the entire series |
| 14:41.26 | goozbach | 2001, 2010, 2061, and 3001 |
| 14:41.39 | goozbach | quite a cool futurelook |
| 14:41.44 | graphyx | perhaps I thought it was boring due to the old movie being so boring |
| 14:41.44 | redbeard1 | i was rather young when i attempted the series. perhaps i'd do better now. |
| 14:42.00 | goozbach | the movie is quite good as well |
| 14:42.06 | graphyx | I never tried to read it |
| 14:42.10 | goozbach | graphyx: it's a book, it's mucho better than the movie |
| 14:42.33 | graphyx | I don't doubt it, just I didn't try to read it |
| 14:42.39 | goozbach | the plot-line changes in 2010 to make a retroactive continuity |
| 14:42.57 | goozbach | originally 2001 (the novel) had the discovery visit Saturn |
| 14:43.28 | graphyx | jsmith: Could overrun and drops on the interface for mm fiber be caused by insufficient light getting to the card? |
| 14:43.34 | redbeard1 | wasn't it jupiter in the movie? |
| 14:43.59 | jsmith | graphyx: Sure |
| 14:44.17 | elg | -lart redbeard1 |
| 14:44.33 | redbeard1 | ~whalebomb elg |
| 14:47.26 | goozbach | redbeard1: yup |
| 14:47.39 | goozbach | and 2010 and on the books refer to jupiter |
| 14:47.53 | goozbach | and the trip to saturn never took place |
| 14:48.12 | goozbach | there's a foreward in 2010 that explains it |
| 14:48.44 | goozbach | so we've got HAL9000, Wintermute, Jane; what else? |
| 15:03.24 | elg | daniel |
| 15:07.36 | *** part/#utah ^Migs^ (n=migs@205.122.50.69) |
| 15:07.55 | *** join/#utah ^Migs^ (n=migs@205.122.50.69) |
| 15:08.38 | ^Migs^ | how do I map one Linux directory to another directory? |
| 15:08.50 | goozbach | map? |
| 15:08.53 | elg | ln -s old/dir/ new/dir/ |
| 15:08.55 | jsmith | Symbolic links? |
| 15:09.01 | goozbach | mount --bind |
| 15:09.02 | jsmith | Just like elg said |
| 15:09.09 | ^Migs^ | Okay, I'll try that. |
| 15:15.13 | ^Migs^ | I don't have root access, this is on a shared webhost |
| 15:15.14 | *** join/#utah wps (n=wps@67.108.236.230.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 15:15.24 | ^Migs^ | I'm trying to figure out the best way to do this. I'm setting up a site for my extended family, so every household can upload pictures and post a blog. |
| 15:15.33 | goozbach | ln -s is your next best thing |
| 15:15.43 | goozbach | bind mounts are cool |
| 15:15.48 | goozbach | everybody's doing them |
| 15:15.58 | goozbach | combined with chroots they're the shiznit |
| 15:22.37 | *** join/#utah phinux (n=phinux@iocane.cs.byu.edu) |
| 15:22.46 | *** join/#utah beandog_ (n=sdibb@cg.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 15:33.38 | ^Migs^ | I could make a user account for everyone, so they each have their own /home directory. Then keep that home directory as the place where they upload all their stuff. |
| 15:34.50 | goozbach | you don't have root acces, how are you going to do that |
| 15:35.25 | ^Migs^ | ideally, though, I'd like their home directories to map to my directory, where I keep the rest of the site, so /home/jreeve/clarkfamily.com/newuser/upload |
| 15:35.37 | ^Migs^ | dreamhost lets you create users |
| 15:36.46 | ^Migs^ | I'm just not sure that's the best way. There might be some better way I don't know about |
| 15:38.10 | *** join/#utah tiwula (n=lane@208.64.90.18.utahbroadband.com) |
| 15:45.38 | synic | burnthegreat: morning :) |
| 15:45.54 | *** join/#utah neybar (n=jalance@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 15:46.04 | synic | burnthegreat: I see you've found one of the more nerdtastic channels available |
| 15:46.57 | burnthegreat | yeah |
| 15:47.00 | burnthegreat | I need to get out of that channel but i am addicted to the irc |
| 15:47.25 | synic | hehe, I know how it is |
| 15:47.38 | burnthegreat | wrd |
| 15:47.58 | burnthegreat | it feels kind of depressing not to be in there... I have been in that channel for about 4 years |
| 15:48.38 | goozbach | four years?! pfft Lightweight |
| 15:48.42 | goozbach | :) |
| 15:48.46 | synic | heh, I'm just now beginning to like it |
| 15:48.53 | synic | now that I've met everyone |
| 15:49.26 | dataw0lf | heh |
| 15:49.40 | Jayce^ | dataw0lf, so, how'd it work for you? |
| 15:49.43 | dataw0lf | urinary olympics? |
| 15:49.48 | dataw0lf | Jayce^: oh, very, very well |
| 15:49.56 | dataw0lf | this apex is unbelievable |
| 15:50.15 | Jayce^ | you like that range? |
| 15:50.15 | dataw0lf | way more accurate |
| 15:50.23 | dataw0lf | oh yea |
| 15:50.31 | dataw0lf | it's like flatline X 2 |
| 15:50.44 | burnthegreat | what is up dataw0lf |
| 15:51.10 | dataw0lf | Hal, open the bay doors. |
| 15:51.13 | burnthegreat | ohh dude synic do you mind is i have 2 screens running irssi? |
| 15:51.30 | synic | not at all |
| 15:52.25 | synic | oh quit blowing up you big baby :P |
| 15:52.44 | burnthegreat | awesome. I am going to set up a chess bot for firefly and myself |
| 15:53.27 | synic | I'd say something about "perl sucks hardcore", but this channel is weird about that :) |
| 15:53.47 | dataw0lf | yea, I was expecting someone to say 'lol you should've been written in perl lol' |
| 15:55.36 | burnthegreat | well there are a few people in here that i reconise |
| 15:55.41 | burnthegreat | that is kind of cool |
| 15:55.46 | brac | that is sleezy. :) |
| 15:55.55 | dataw0lf | haha |
| 15:56.06 | dataw0lf | and it's spelled 'sleazy', brac |
| 15:56.38 | dataw0lf | synic: exaile is pretty nice. |
| 15:57.00 | synic | thanks dude. I'm pretty proud of it |
| 15:57.05 | dataw0lf | but you shouldn't have used python-gtk |
| 15:57.12 | dataw0lf | probably your only choice though. |
| 15:57.13 | synic | I didn't... at first |
| 15:57.21 | dataw0lf | yea, you went with wxPython, right? |
| 15:57.22 | synic | remember? It was once wx. |
| 15:57.24 | synic | yeah |
| 15:57.24 | brac | you went to bed, with visions of kudus bounding across the techniques themselves. |
| 15:57.30 | synic | brac: pie hole. |
| 15:57.56 | synic | brb |
| 15:58.01 | dataw0lf | k |
| 15:59.31 | goozbach | my bike today! |
| 15:59.49 | goozbach | s/my/I get my/ |
| 16:00.17 | dataw0lf | synic: I really like the tabs download from Fretplay |
| 16:00.20 | dataw0lf | awesome idea |
| 16:01.02 | dataw0lf | and sqlite, too, which is refreshing. |
| 16:01.55 | ^Migs^ | ~migs synic |
| 16:02.04 | ^Migs^ | ~perl synic |
| 16:02.32 | burnthegreat | sweet, my headphone i ordered from w00t came today |
| 16:05.31 | synic | sqlite has actually proved to be sort of a pain |
| 16:05.44 | synic | it hates threads |
| 16:06.07 | synic | the fact that it works in Exaile is a big giant hack |
| 16:06.21 | dataw0lf | synic: have you tried to compile sqlite yourself? |
| 16:06.28 | synic | nope |
| 16:06.33 | synic | <-- lazy |
| 16:06.33 | dataw0lf | turn on the THREADSAFE preprocessor |
| 16:06.57 | synic | hehe :) |
| 16:07.07 | dataw0lf | ;-) |
| 16:09.17 | dataw0lf | just don't use the same connection through all the threads, though, just make sure of that. |
| 16:09.42 | dataw0lf | I think Windows sqlite is much more thread safe than the *nix build. |
| 16:09.51 | dataw0lf | I dunno though, never used it. |
| 16:11.15 | synic | some knob wrote a patch to make Exaile work on windows |
| 16:11.29 | synic | I haven't tried it,though |
| 16:12.23 | dataw0lf | not writing Windows safe Python code? It sucks, I know. |
| 16:12.27 | burnthegreat | ohh man... I wish I did not have a hard time sleeping last night |
| 16:12.55 | synic | no, I am. He just had to find a new media engine to use |
| 16:14.13 | ^Migs^ | Big Buddha's coming to one of our schools |
| 16:14.22 | dataw0lf | really? All your code is Windows safe? Crikey, good job. |
| 16:14.33 | dataw0lf | I say crikey a lot now. |
| 16:14.39 | ^Migs^ | blimey! |
| 16:14.44 | dataw0lf | it's my way to handle the crocodile hunter's death |
| 16:15.08 | synic | not all of it. I coded it with a port in mind, though. |
| 16:15.33 | synic | using os.sep and whatnot |
| 16:16.25 | dataw0lf | ah yea. |
| 16:16.32 | dataw0lf | I've had problems with threads |
| 16:16.57 | dataw0lf | with the threading module, the thread module seems ok. |
| 16:19.31 | synic | dataw0lf: tell me what you think of this... http://rafb.net/p/sDY5rP91.html. Both of them are obviously intended to be decorators. |
| 16:21.41 | burnthegreat | synic: you also offered to give me a space to host as well? Can I take you up on that? |
| 16:22.11 | dataw0lf | synic: that's pretty cool |
| 16:22.19 | dataw0lf | creating a thread for each object instance |
| 16:23.06 | dataw0lf | extremely pythonic way to handle rlocking |
| 16:24.08 | synic | I can't claim that I wrote it, but I think it's pretty cool to use |
| 16:24.18 | dataw0lf | I like it |
| 16:24.26 | synic | burnthegreat: surely, email me your infos, and I'll set it up when I get to the office |
| 16:25.00 | burnthegreat | It will be a while befor I have somthing thing to put there |
| 16:25.20 | burnthegreat | I will build it on my box first.... after I resetup appach |
| 16:25.25 | burnthegreat | apache* |
| 16:25.37 | dataw0lf | synic: have you checked out Python 2.5? |
| 16:25.51 | synic | a little |
| 16:26.13 | dataw0lf | 'with' rocks |
| 16:27.09 | *** join/#utah JoshH (i=josh@josh.xmission.com) |
| 16:27.19 | synic | crap, gotta head to the office |
| 16:27.22 | synic | bbiab |
| 16:27.44 | dataw0lf | word |
| 16:28.56 | burnthegreat | the day in the life of tech support... |
| 16:32.31 | dataw0lf | I feel for you. |
| 16:32.37 | burnthegreat | thxz |
| 16:33.07 | burnthegreat | at least I am the lead tech so I dont have to work untill some big issue comes in of the newbs can't handle the calls |
| 16:33.22 | dataw0lf | never done tech support, but I can imagine it sucks. |
| 16:33.30 | burnthegreat | yeah it can |
| 16:34.32 | findlay | it always gets me into a fit of paroxysims when the office people ask each other tech questions in great wonder when all they need to do is ask me |
| 16:34.48 | findlay | that's what I'm here for anyway |
| 16:34.59 | dataw0lf | I don't answer tech questions, it isn't my job. |
| 16:35.20 | burnthegreat | where do you work at findlay |
| 16:36.48 | dataw0lf | http://groups.google.com/group/django-users/browse_thread/thread/456337736cc1c013/17fc56fe02d03c70#17fc56fe02d03c70 |
| 16:36.48 | dataw0lf | loltastic |
| 16:43.41 | findlay | burnthegreat: I'm at a small business |
| 16:44.26 | burnthegreat | cool |
| 16:44.35 | *** join/#utah Lone_Wanderer (n=chatzill@cg.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 16:44.41 | macnewbold | ~yow |
| 16:45.39 | findlay | dataw0lf: I don't enjoy answering questions, but I don't understand how people don't get it that they don't have to wallow in aimless wonder when all they need to do is spend 30 s asking me a question |
| 16:45.40 | Lone_Wanderer | I'd like some NAP TIME. Alone. |
| 16:47.10 | dataw0lf | http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_5335528 |
| 16:47.12 | dataw0lf | hero |
| 16:47.29 | dataw0lf | findlay: yea, I let em wallow in aimless wonder. |
| 16:47.36 | elg | heroes are so heroic |
| 16:47.52 | Lone_Wanderer | I prefer heroinnes (sp?) |
| 16:47.57 | brac | I prefer Pylons for anything |
| 16:48.03 | Lone_Wanderer | Especially if they're played by Jennifer Garner. |
| 16:48.16 | dataw0lf | ew |
| 16:48.21 | dataw0lf | Jennifer Garner looks like a man |
| 16:48.27 | Lone_Wanderer | What, you don't like the "I disappear when I turn sideways" look? |
| 16:48.40 | dataw0lf | I don't like the skeletor look |
| 16:49.07 | dataw0lf | I'm more of a scarlett johanssen kinda man. |
| 16:49.22 | findlay | dataw0lf: I guess you're right |
| 16:49.23 | Lone_Wanderer | Tell you what. You get Kate Winslett to play a superhero and then we can talk. |
| 16:49.29 | findlay | after all, I have work to do |
| 16:50.14 | dataw0lf | Lone_Wanderer: mmmm Kate Winslet |
| 16:50.20 | dataw0lf | findlay: see, it's true. |
| 16:50.35 | findlay | :) |
| 16:50.56 | Lone_Wanderer | Drink Elba, the beer with the heart of a lion! |
| 16:51.25 | *** join/#utah harleypig (n=harleypi@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 16:51.42 | harleypig | Anybody know how to make gaim open a chat window automatically? |
| 16:51.49 | harleypig | On start up I mean |
| 16:52.09 | findlay | gaim's configuration GUI makes me depressed |
| 16:52.15 | redbeard1 | harleypig: have it log you into irc immediately, with a registered nick. that'll open a chat window. |
| 16:52.37 | harleypig | I'm already doing that. I want to join #utah as soon as gaim starts up. |
| 16:53.04 | harleypig | err ... nm ... right click chat and select auto join. |
| 16:53.49 | burnthegreat | i would use somthing else for irc then gaim. |
| 16:54.19 | harleypig | I was using irssi. I need to finish setting up my server |
| 16:54.46 | harleypig | burnthegreat: why don't you like gaim for irc? |
| 16:54.58 | dataw0lf | I can give you a shell on mine and you can use irssi from there in the interim, if you'd like, harleypig. |
| 16:58.42 | burnthegreat | harleypig: I just don't. Some thing feels wrong when I tried it. |
| 17:00.19 | harleypig | thanks dataw0lf, but it's already installed, I just need to figure out a way to be alerted when somebody says my name in here or ims me |
| 17:00.34 | harleypig | burnthegreat: i ese |
| 17:00.39 | harleypig | s/ese/see |
| 17:00.46 | *** join/#utah mheath (i=mheath@c-76-23-104-208.hsd1.sc.comcast.net) |
| 17:01.08 | burnthegreat | harleypig: highlite is a nice script for irssi |
| 17:01.26 | findlay | burnthegreat: do you use irssi? |
| 17:01.44 | findlay | do you know an accessible introduction to irssi customization? |
| 17:02.23 | findlay | I think irssi can do all I need, but I can't figure out how to configure it and don't want to spend the time starting out with guessing |
| 17:02.32 | harleypig | Not really. The irssi site has some good resources |
| 17:02.50 | findlay | but I still don't understand most of what the irssi site is saying :) |
| 17:03.40 | harleypig | if you google 'irssi howto' you'll run across a number of quickie tutorials but I got past them pretty quickly. |
| 17:03.45 | burnthegreat | http://irssi.org/beginner/ |
| 17:04.15 | burnthegreat | it is pretty easy to learn |
| 17:05.09 | harleypig | http://f0rked.com/public/irssi-docs/help-full.html |
| 17:05.09 | findlay | mainly I want to figure out how to create my own theme |
| 17:05.10 | brac | [Irssi Help] |
| 17:05.30 | dataw0lf | findlay: I know how to create a theme |
| 17:05.52 | findlay | dataw0lf: can you make the theme that I want? OKTHXBYE |
| 17:06.01 | dataw0lf | kkk |
| 17:06.04 | findlay | heh |
| 17:06.10 | *** join/#utah TimRiker (n=timr@216.49.181.128) |
| 17:06.10 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 17:06.52 | findlay | dataw0lf: do you know of any good documentation, or should I start from the reading the themes on the irssi site? |
| 17:07.05 | findlay | the source I mean |
| 17:07.12 | dataw0lf | I dunno about any good docus, I'd just browse the source |
| 17:07.18 | brac | I dunno that I'll have to dig through the air |
| 17:07.34 | findlay | brac: too bad you're unsure about that |
| 17:08.17 | dataw0lf | it's pretty self explanatory, they're well commented |
| 17:08.42 | findlay | yeah |
| 17:08.54 | findlay | of necessity :) |
| 17:09.09 | burnthegreat | you know. It is pretty nice not to be in a channel that my ex hangs out in |
| 17:13.15 | harleypig | :D At least htat's something I don't ahve to worry about. |
| 17:15.42 | dataw0lf | I kinda wish I did.. |
| 17:15.47 | dataw0lf | that'd mean I had dated a geek girl |
| 17:16.12 | dataw0lf | oh wait, I have had that happen. |
| 17:16.14 | dataw0lf | crikey. |
| 17:16.23 | dataw0lf | yea, that sucks. |
| 17:16.36 | dataw0lf | also, I'm a nerd. |
| 17:16.54 | findlay | how much can a budget agp cart be gotten for these days? |
| 17:16.59 | brac | how much snow out there. |
| 17:17.21 | dataw0lf | findlay: card? |
| 17:17.37 | findlay | well, yes, one of those too |
| 17:18.00 | dataw0lf | nvidia or radeon? |
| 17:18.41 | findlay | doesn't matter |
| 17:19.02 | dataw0lf | can probably get a geforce 6600 for under 100 dollars. |
| 17:19.06 | dataw0lf | what's your price range? |
| 17:19.09 | burnthegreat | dataw0lf: she is not a geek. Just a follower of geek people |
| 17:19.20 | dataw0lf | ah yes. |
| 17:19.23 | findlay | $0-$25 |
| 17:19.37 | harleypig | How can you pay $0 ? |
| 17:19.53 | dataw0lf | by paying in BLOOD |
| 17:20.08 | findlay | well, you take the limit as $$$ --> 0 |
| 17:20.31 | harleypig | So $.01 is the same as $0? |
| 17:20.46 | findlay | besides, maybe it's an open interval :) |
| 17:20.47 | dataw0lf | you can get a geforce ddr for about 15 bucks, findlay |
| 17:20.58 | elg | findlay: you can get a card for $30 that may suit your needs, depending on what your needs are |
| 17:21.05 | brac | you can directly import it, though, so i just finished S2 of 24 is presented in 16:9 w/ 5.1 surround |
| 17:21.08 | elg | or $15 even |
| 17:25.11 | dataw0lf | Scooter Libby got found guilty. |
| 17:25.46 | burnthegreat | ohh no |
| 17:26.27 | macnewbold | who is scooter libby, and what did he do? |
| 17:27.15 | dataw0lf | he was Cheney's chief aide, and told reporters Valeria Plame's name, then concocted a story to try to cover it up |
| 17:28.11 | Jayce^ | he was being tried for perjury, basically stating he lied when he said "I don't remember all the details of the discussion".. kinda lame trial, that's for sure.. |
| 17:31.15 | harleypig | Hey ... you can use irssi as a new reader ... |
| 17:31.28 | atoponce | harleypig: ? |
| 17:32.12 | findlay | heh |
| 17:32.27 | harleypig | /alias NNTP window new hide;window name news;exec printf 'article <$0>\\nquit\\n'|nc news.helsinki.fi nntp|tr -d '\\r'" |
| 17:32.38 | findlay | the ultimate question is whether you can embed irssi in emacs |
| 17:32.44 | atoponce | oh no |
| 17:32.47 | atoponce | :) |
| 17:33.02 | findlay | I get you can because emacs has a shell mode I think |
| 17:33.07 | findlay | s/get/bet/ |
| 17:33.34 | dataw0lf | Jayce^: yea, sure, but after that tried and true defense didn't work, they tried the somebody else did it technique. |
| 17:34.11 | harleypig | oooo ... there is a news script too ... of course, this means that it can be used as a feed reader as well. |
| 17:39.01 | *** join/#utah tiwula (n=lane@208.64.90.18.utahbroadband.com) |
| 17:39.39 | *** join/#utah fcodiaz (n=fdiaz@64.58.232.4) |
| 17:40.06 | harleypig | Hmmm ... an sms interface would be pretty cool for irssi as well. |
| 17:47.17 | burnthegreat | I could see that |
| 18:02.05 | *** join/#utah ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) |
| 18:02.05 | *** topic/#utah is The channel for OSS discussion in Utah | http://www.plug.org/node/28 | #utah stands for U-Haul Transformers Attacking Hamsters | Utah Open Source Conference - September 6-8, 2007 |
| 18:02.05 | *** mode/#utah [+o ibot] by ChanServ |
| 18:04.30 | burnthegreat | http://www.xkcd.com/c197.html |
| 18:04.31 | brac | [xkcd - A webcomic of romance, sarcasm, math, and language - By Randall Munroe] |
| 18:04.34 | acrid | rcirc is in emacsCVS |
| 18:05.03 | burnthegreat | ohhh man... that diagram cracks me up |
| 18:14.10 | *** join/#utah sjansen (n=sjansen@class1-nat.gurulabs.com) |
| 18:15.13 | sjansen | http://codecraft.info/index.php/archives/79/ |
| 18:19.15 | *** topic/#utah by sjansen -> The channel for OSS discussion in Utah | http://www.plug.org/node/28 | Utah Open Source Conference - September 6-8, 2007 |
| 18:25.50 | elg | “The slowest mind is faster than the fastest pencil.” |
| 18:26.08 | elg | uh, not my mind. my mind can go a lot faster with a pencil in hand when doing math |
| 18:26.22 | elg | i don't write everything down, and what I write isn't comprehensible for partial credit |
| 18:26.53 | tristanbob | anyone use the vmware converter to take windows on a hard drive and move it to a vm within linux? I did and I am getting a stupid activation prompt saying I have an invalid key! ARGHHHHHH! |
| 18:27.19 | elg | welcome to microsoft licensing |
| 18:27.22 | tristanbob | I can always dual-boot if this doesn't work |
| 18:27.31 | tristanbob | licensing is so stupid |
| 18:27.40 | harleypig | ~lart merlyn |
| 18:27.41 | elg | vontrapp is toying with xp on a partition in vmware |
| 18:27.51 | elg | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:28.09 | tristanbob | I laugh when people have to install licensing servers, and other licensing headaches |
| 18:28.30 | tristanbob | the migration worked fine - except for the licensing |
| 18:28.36 | tristanbob | now I am locked out of the vm |
| 18:29.18 | tristanbob | and I legally own a copy of hte OS |
| 18:29.24 | tristanbob | thanks msoft for your crappy os |
| 18:37.02 | burnthegreat | ahhh ms haters... I allready feel at home in this channel |
| 18:38.25 | findlay | ~evil |
| 18:38.27 | ibot | methinks evil is something Microsoft bought from Satan, according to http://bbspot.com/News/2000/4/MS_Buys_Evil.html |
| 18:38.30 | brac | [BBspot - Microsoft Purchases Evil From Satan] |
| 18:39.20 | findlay | I don't necessarily hate MS, but am usually disgusted when I have to use their stuff |
| 18:39.31 | findlay | so I try to avoid it |
| 18:39.53 | burnthegreat | same here... and i support an app that runs off of msSQL |
| 18:40.17 | findlay | heh |
| 18:45.08 | burnthegreat | ugh... the ex is calling me.... |
| 18:45.17 | burnthegreat | i have a feeling this is not going to be pretty |
| 18:45.28 | rsimpkins | I am glad I don't have an ex. Sorry man. |
| 18:45.41 | burnthegreat | ehh that is how life goes |
| 18:46.01 | burnthegreat | when you date bitches they break your heart and take dump on your chest. |
| 18:46.47 | sjansen | Hell hath no fury... |
| 18:47.05 | burnthegreat | no more of a true statment such as that |
| 18:47.24 | *** mode/#utah [+o spr] by ChanServ |
| 18:47.51 | burnthegreat | so some one tell me about the bots and the bot commands in this channel |
| 18:48.02 | macnewbold | ~school burnthegreat |
| 18:48.04 | ibot | ACTION slaps burnthegreat around, robs'm, then reminds'm to be thankfully for the education. |
| 18:48.22 | findlay | ~teach burnthegreat |
| 18:48.41 | macnewbold | basically, anything you start with a ~ ibot will listen to, or if you prefix it with "ibot, " or "ibot: ", or if you /msg ibot |
| 18:48.52 | macnewbold | a dash triggers brac |
| 18:48.56 | macnewbold | -greet burnthegreat |
| 18:53.44 | burnthegreat | i can feel the love |
| 18:54.52 | graphyx | -lart burnthegreat |
| 18:54.58 | graphyx | ~lart burnthegreat |
| 18:55.46 | graphyx | just showing the most common usage of said bots |
| 18:56.04 | findlay | ~shoot graphyx |
| 18:56.06 | ibot | ACTION shoots graphyx in the eye with a glue gun! |
| 18:56.29 | findlay | ~bzfrag burnthegreat |
| 18:56.31 | ibot | ACTION makes burnthegreat feel the effects of a shockwave |
| 18:59.22 | *** join/#utah neybar (n=jalance@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 18:59.28 | burnthegreat | awseom |
| 18:59.33 | burnthegreat | that is a pretty sweet bot |
| 18:59.46 | *** join/#utah spr_ (n=spr@hemlock.cs.byu.edu) |
| 19:00.11 | spr_ | Hey, the BYU UUG is looking for presenters. Anyone interested. |
| 19:00.12 | findlay | -chat about sweet bots |
| 19:00.13 | brac | sweet bots |
| 19:00.27 | findlay | brac: l4m3r |
| 19:07.31 | burnthegreat | lol |
| 19:12.49 | *** join/#utah calvarez (n=Hhhhh@lawn-128-61-117-24.lawn.gatech.edu) |
| 19:13.33 | graphyx | -chat about life is |
| 19:13.33 | brac | life is a program that I couldn't believe it :( |
| 19:14.17 | graphyx | -chat about simple steps |
| 19:14.17 | brac | simple steps |
| 19:18.05 | jsmith | -chat about crazy people |
| 19:18.05 | brac | crazy people are always referring to. |
| 19:20.36 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@dhcp08.cs.nmsu.edu) |
| 19:20.48 | elg | -lart sjansen |
| 19:21.36 | calvarez | I was bit by a giraffe once |
| 19:23.06 | tensai | were you dressed like a yummy tree? |
| 19:33.49 | findlay | -chat about about stuff |
| 19:33.50 | brac | about stuff that isn't quite certain that i know a few minutes. |
| 19:36.34 | tensai | -chat about classical music |
| 19:36.34 | brac | classical music buff, so pardon me if you do, cww said he'd take us all look bad to? |
| 19:39.13 | *** join/#utah vontrapp_ (n=von@71.35.254.49) |
| 19:41.15 | elg | hmm. I just got a british 419 |
| 19:45.18 | burnthegreat | waza? |
| 19:46.59 | macnewbold | I think it is a rifle |
| 19:47.08 | macnewbold | one with quite a kick if I recall correctly |
| 19:47.29 | macnewbold | that, or he could be talking about a 419 http response code from a web site in the U.K. |
| 19:47.36 | macnewbold | but I doubt it, as I've never heard of one of those |
| 19:52.03 | dataw0lf | I don't think it's a rifle |
| 19:52.05 | dataw0lf | but I could be wrong |
| 19:52.17 | burnthegreat | maybe it is goffee |
| 19:53.01 | tene | 419 is a code for a type of scam/con |
| 19:53.25 | tene | i.e. Nigerian Prince Has Money For You, just give us your bank account details... |
| 19:53.48 | dataw0lf | that's... a scam? |
| 19:53.50 | elg | this one was proper (almost) english and pronunciation, and it was a uk name and a uk bank |
| 19:57.30 | tensai | 419 is the penal code number in nigeria for that style of scam |
| 19:57.47 | tensai | even if it weren't a scam, it would be money laundering and quite illegal |
| 20:07.46 | elg | any junit users here? |
| 20:08.24 | *** join/#utah calvarez (n=Hhhhh@lawn-128-61-117-24.lawn.gatech.edu) |
| 20:09.27 | calvarez | just so powerful! |
| 20:10.04 | calvarez | besides the player, it is excellent for streaming and also for converting between video and audio encodings |
| 20:10.57 | *** join/#utah Hhhhhh (n=Hhhhh@lawn-128-61-117-24.lawn.gatech.edu) |
| 20:18.23 | emcnabb | nice, so that new Sun box I got (which I mentioned last week) has 48 x 500GB SATA drives |
| 20:21.34 | tristanbob | emcnabb: very cool 24 TB |
| 20:23.34 | tristanbob | Sunfire X4500 (aka Thumper?) |
| 20:25.43 | *** join/#utah neybar (n=jalance@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 20:28.43 | findlay | ~lart squid |
| 20:35.29 | beandog_ | converting? |
| 20:35.31 | beandog_ | vlc converts? |
| 20:41.54 | *** join/#utah billyjean (n=non3@216.83.140.136) |
| 20:51.52 | *** join/#utah tiwula (n=lane@208.64.90.18.utahbroadband.com) |
| 20:51.58 | *** join/#utah TheDruidXpaw1 (n=cgoudie@charon.thna.net) |
| 20:52.50 | TheDruidXpaw1 | Greetings everyone. The company I work for (Twelve Horses) is putting together a free tech event on March 30th. I thought the techies in here might like the news. http://www.utahtechspotlight.com/ |
| 20:53.08 | TheDruidXpaw1 | It's free, there will be free snacks, and hopefully some good networking opportunities. |
| 20:53.16 | redbeard1 | TheDruidXpaw1, thanks man |
| 20:53.57 | TheDruidXpaw1 | No problemo. Didn't want to sound like I was trolling. Just wanted to pass the word. :) |
| 20:54.21 | redbeard1 | #utos might be interested as well |
| 20:54.32 | TheDruidXpaw1 | Thanks, I'll pass the word in there too :) |
| 20:54.43 | TheDruidXpaw1 | The invitation is open, so if there are people you think might be interested, feel free to pass the word |
| 20:55.01 | redbeard1 | is it open source, or just tech in general? |
| 20:55.09 | burnthegreat | ohh man that was a shitty call to the ex |
| 20:55.09 | TheDruidXpaw1 | local utah tech |
| 20:58.10 | *** join/#utah harleypig (n=harleypi@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 20:58.49 | emcnabb | tristanbob: yup |
| 21:00.01 | harleypig | DO NOT RUN THIS PERL CODE: push @seq, $seq[-2] ** 2 + $seq[-1] |
| 21:00.16 | harleypig | at least not in a while ( 1 ) loop |
| 21:03.55 | findlay | what about a while ( 2 ) loop? |
| 21:04.12 | neybar | kills you twice as fast |
| 21:04.17 | findlay | ah |
| 21:05.23 | beandog_ | we need to setup a planet of local utah bloggers |
| 21:05.25 | beandog_ | not just tech ones. |
| 21:06.16 | beandog_ | stupid plugin. |
| 21:07.02 | harleypig | Help Stop Code Abuse |
| 21:07.16 | beandog_ | heh :) |
| 21:07.51 | burnthegreat | lol |
| 21:10.05 | \me | I need to understand this better: |
| 21:10.23 | \me | what is in the statement handler (in DBI) post prepare, pre-execute? |
| 21:10.39 | \me | I need to determine how much memory each statement handler at that phase is going to take |
| 21:10.57 | \me | so I can determine if sticking them all in an array will be a dumb idea or not |
| 21:11.31 | \me | anyone know? |
| 21:12.11 | \me | I guess I probably don't need to do the prepare |
| 21:12.16 | \me | nm |
| 21:12.23 | \me | nice talking to you guys :-) |
| 21:12.50 | findlay | while ( 3 )? |
| 21:12.54 | findlay | will that do it? |
| 21:13.02 | findlay | ~lart me because I'm dumb |
| 21:14.24 | burnthegreat | yarg... i feel kind of numb |
| 21:14.57 | mheath | yahh |
| 21:15.05 | mheath | my quick little 45 minute break =\ |
| 21:15.42 | mheath | Want to try to get out of their early tonight |
| 21:16.17 | burnthegreat | getting out of work early tonight would be nice |
| 21:16.33 | mheath | heh |
| 21:16.40 | mheath | It's hard to think of this as my job |
| 21:16.45 | mheath | but I guess thats what it is :P |
| 21:18.29 | mheath | Hmm. Anyone else here receive a small amount of Japanese spam? |
| 21:19.16 | mheath | Need to call my niece and wish her a happy birthday |
| 21:19.20 | beandog_ | sometimes |
| 21:19.27 | mheath | It's shocking how fast the time flies.....She's 8! |
| 21:21.19 | mheath | Hmm |
| 21:21.25 | mheath | Girl Scout Thin Mint Cookies have a flaw |
| 21:21.33 | mheath | you can't dunk them in milk effectively :P |
| 21:22.31 | burnthegreat | get a bigger glass |
| 21:23.20 | mheath | Eh? |
| 21:23.29 | mheath | I was refering to the fact that they are chocolate coated |
| 21:23.40 | mheath | So the milk does not absorb as it does with an oreo cookie. |
| 21:25.20 | mheath | Grr |
| 21:25.22 | burnthegreat | hmmm dill holes |
| 21:25.39 | mheath | ~lart people who talk during study hall because they think the work is easy |
| 21:26.10 | emcnabb | ~lart people who should be studying but instead talk on IRC |
| 21:26.20 | mheath | emcnabb, Can't study right now |
| 21:26.27 | mheath | If I went to study right now, I'd get no dinner tonight |
| 21:26.44 | mheath | I'm going in right after dinner] |
| 21:26.51 | emcnabb | mheath: you have a lot of time these days |
| 21:26.56 | emcnabb | free time, that is |
| 21:27.00 | mheath | emcnabb, Uh. |
| 21:27.13 | synic | burnthegreat: yo. |
| 21:27.14 | mheath | emcnabb, Yesterday, I spent 10 continuous ours in classes / lecture time. |
| 21:27.22 | mheath | Followed by 3.5 hours of almost continuous study time. |
| 21:27.22 | tristanbob | mheath: you have to chew the cookies then take a swig of milk |
| 21:27.26 | synic | burnthegreat: Harm on lolutah just asked me if anyone was looking for a sysadmin position |
| 21:27.36 | mheath | emcnabb, Today, I had another 10 hours of continous class. |
| 21:27.42 | dataw0lf | synic: tell harm to join #ut2600 |
| 21:27.47 | mheath | I'm taking a short 45 minute break right now |
| 21:27.51 | dataw0lf | I never see that kid |
| 21:27.53 | emcnabb | mheath: so, my brother-in-law got accepted to The Citadel |
| 21:28.02 | mheath | Then I'm going to eat, then study for another 45 minutes. |
| 21:28.09 | emcnabb | he might be heading your way |
| 21:28.22 | mheath | emcnabb, Congratulations? Now I can look at him among the weird pseudo-pretend-military people in Charleston |
| 21:28.43 | mheath | Heh |
| 21:28.45 | emcnabb | mheath: because you're sooo much more important than everyone else |
| 21:28.59 | mheath | The Citadel was actually on the list of colleges you can go to if you get accepted for STA21 |
| 21:29.12 | mheath | I don't know who the heck would go to a military academy for STA21. :P |
| 21:29.31 | dataw0lf | what's wrong with the citadel? |
| 21:29.37 | mheath | Nothing. |
| 21:29.53 | findlay | is there a way to turn off all the bugifying effects of osx? |
| 21:30.03 | findlay | visual effects, I mean? |
| 21:30.17 | dataw0lf | for a 'pseudo-pretend-military' college, they sure do produce some incredible military leaders. |
| 21:30.19 | findlay | the ones that are designed to annoy in the most exasperating way possible |
| 21:30.54 | mheath | dataw0lf, I guess. I know most of the amazing Naval leaders usually graduated from the Naval Academy. |
| 21:31.03 | findlay | and why when I plug in a cat5 cable does it not connect? |
| 21:31.23 | emcnabb | dataw0lf: what you do you know about the military!?!? ;-) |
| 21:31.23 | findlay | there's like not even a gui or auto recognition |
| 21:31.32 | Sargun | mheath, Do you think you'll become an amazing military leader? |
| 21:31.47 | dataw0lf | emcnabb: I know, I'm stupid when it comes to the military :\ |
| 21:31.49 | mheath | dataw0lf, It's not that I'm disrespecting them. It's just weird running into them when you're in actual uniform. |
| 21:31.57 | findlay | you can throw all the osx's in the water with mheath for all I care |
| 21:31.58 | mheath | Sargun: .... |
| 21:32.01 | emcnabb | dataw0lf: you need to get some real-life experience like mheath |
| 21:32.09 | mheath | I'm working for 6 years as an engineer, Sargun. |
| 21:32.18 | Sargun | mheath, Well, is that what you what to pursue after you become an engineer? |
| 21:32.19 | dataw0lf | emcnabb: yea, I can't compete with a couple months of service |
| 21:32.20 | mheath | *as an enlisted engineer. |
| 21:32.38 | Sargun | Ah. |
| 21:32.55 | mheath | dataw0lf, let me rephrase my comment |
| 21:33.01 | mheath | Since you seem to have taken so much offense to it |
| 21:33.12 | dataw0lf | I'm just commenting, no offense taken. |
| 21:33.20 | dataw0lf | _I_ didn't go to the Citadel. |
| 21:33.30 | mheath | I do not know why someone would go to The Citadel on a STA21/ROTC scholarship when the main reason someone does STA21 is to get HOME / Away from active duty while they do college |
| 21:33.48 | mheath | Especially because Nukes have almost a guaranteed acceptancce to the Naval Academy. |
| 21:33.49 | findlay | I say draft all OSX's in existence into the Navy with mheath so he can teach them what's up, like how to connect to the intarwebs |
| 21:34.52 | emcnabb | mheath: I hear the Nuke program is pretty tough |
| 21:35.07 | mheath | emcnabb, overall like 15% attrition |
| 21:35.13 | *** join/#utah cww (i=cww@nat/redhat/x-123deb699d235b22) |
| 21:35.22 | mheath | Though some of that is good loss - people leaving for officer programs, etc. |
| 21:35.23 | findlay | tough as nukes |
| 21:35.28 | Sargun | I'd imagine any program where your dealing with stuff that could take out the world would be kind of tough. |
| 21:35.34 | findlay | ~nuke mheath |
| 21:35.36 | ibot | ACTION prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at mheath ... B☢☢M! |
| 21:35.43 | dataw0lf | it's not a weapon nuke system they're in charge of |
| 21:35.48 | mheath | Sargun: It'd be hard to blow up the world with a nuclear reactor. |
| 21:35.48 | findlay | oh |
| 21:35.55 | findlay | ~react mheath |
| 21:36.25 | mheath | But that why it's so intense of a program |
| 21:36.41 | Sargun | mheath, well, you could cause a reactor to go critical like in Cherneboyl, and increase the average radiation levels in an entire state. |
| 21:36.42 | mheath | They could train you basic electronics / equipment repair in a lot less time probably |
| 21:36.54 | mheath | But they go to great lengths to teach you fundamental understanding of all the systems |
| 21:36.58 | mheath | Because it makes it safer |
| 21:37.08 | emcnabb | mheath: are you going to be part of that 15%? |
| 21:37.16 | mheath | emcnabb, I don't know. |
| 21:37.29 | dataw0lf | 15% attrition? kid's stuff! |
| 21:37.30 | mheath | Right now, I'm really nervous that I wiill be. |
| 21:38.55 | mheath | Thats why I'm doing a lot of studying |
| 21:39.01 | mheath | trying to get a head and make sure I stay ahead |
| 21:39.16 | mheath | Why I did 3.5 hours of studying last night when I had about 30 minutes of actual work. |
| 21:40.00 | burnthegreat | w00t, new job prospects are asome |
| 21:40.04 | emcnabb | mheath: you should abandon IRC, that will help |
| 21:40.13 | emcnabb | allow you to concentrate |
| 21:40.30 | mheath | emcnabb, Why? Because I've spent 30 minutes talking on it? |
| 21:40.58 | mheath | emcnabb, I can concentrate OK |
| 21:41.06 | mheath | I'm putting in way more hours than I'm required to |
| 21:41.19 | emcnabb | 30 minutes several times a day adds up |
| 21:41.20 | mheath | Virtually everyone else in my class is putting in the minimum |
| 21:41.37 | mheath | I did more studying last night than everyone else |
| 21:41.53 | mheath | I was the last one to leave the school building, too. |
| 21:41.56 | emcnabb | and think how much more you could do if you weren't on IRC! |
| 21:42.03 | mheath | (which really sucked, having to go through the security checklist) |
| 21:42.15 | mheath | emcnabb, I already told you I can't study right now! |
| 21:42.24 | mheath | I'm waiting for the galley to open so I can get some food before I go in |
| 21:42.33 | mheath | And I'm leaving for hte galley in about 2 minutes :P |
| 21:43.21 | emcnabb | that's fine, I'm just giving you my advice |
| 21:54.22 | *** join/#utah mrpull-_ (n=misterpu@mail.pollmann.us) |
| 21:54.42 | *** join/#utah Robdor (n=Robdor@208.187.198.179) |
| 21:57.51 | burnthegreat | hehe I just told my boss that it is a slow days and he responded with "Good, shut up and listen to your music" |
| 21:58.32 | ^Migs^ | that was rude |
| 21:58.39 | ^Migs^ | you should tell him he's being rude |
| 21:58.44 | burnthegreat | it was awesome |
| 21:58.49 | mheath | Be back around 10 (8 PM your time) |
| 21:59.05 | ^Migs^ | whose time? |
| 22:00.14 | mheath | This is #utah. |
| 22:00.17 | mheath | Utah time. |
| 22:00.27 | Hunding | the galley to open? you live on a boat dude? |
| 22:01.01 | mheath | Hunding, no, I live on a Navy base. |
| 22:01.20 | cww | lol, cafeterias on Naval Bases are called galleys, just like bathrooms in buildings are called heads |
| 22:01.21 | emcnabb | mheath: I'm leaving the office, and I'll be back around 8pm EST in case you were wondering |
| 22:01.27 | dataw0lf | hehe |
| 22:01.52 | Sargun | Finally at least there is another person in my time zone. |
| 22:01.53 | Sargun | :-) |
| 22:02.20 | Hunding | Sargun: what TZ is that? |
| 22:02.49 | levi | Apparently, the one that is two hours later than here. :P |
| 22:03.07 | Sargun | PST8PDT |
| 22:04.23 | Hunding | We should all just work of GMT then there would be no confusion. |
| 22:05.30 | Hunding | Do away with all the TZ crap. So what if your day is from 8PM-8AM...deal with it! |
| 22:07.53 | findlay | everybody shoule be using GMT as of a long time ago |
| 22:08.10 | macnewbold | s/GMT/UTC/ |
| 22:08.14 | Sargun | yeah. |
| 22:08.40 | findlay | and define noon as the time at which the sun is in it's highest right ascension |
| 22:08.46 | brac | and define noon as the McNabbs |
| 22:08.50 | findlay | is it right ascension, or declanation? |
| 22:08.59 | emcnabb | I think we should just get rid of time. I'm sick of getting old! |
| 22:09.00 | findlay | brac: no, we don't want to do that |
| 22:09.35 | emcnabb | neybar: let us know if you're going to be running long |
| 22:09.37 | levi | neybar: Thanks for the head's up. |
| 22:09.38 | findlay | -chat about the break |
| 22:09.39 | brac | the break was a blootbot written in bash |
| 22:10.01 | neybar | will do |
| 22:10.08 | emcnabb | I wonder what neybar is doing on his break right now |
| 22:10.11 | findlay | neybar: go easy on the vending machine treats |
| 22:10.12 | emcnabb | it must be important |
| 22:10.49 | neybar | its very important, I take breaks 50% more efficiantly than my co-workers! |
| 22:11.11 | findlay | wow, I'm impressed |
| 22:14.12 | cww | mheath's report that he'll be back at 10 is kinda vague, 8PM who's time? If I'm gunna plan an evening around watching mheath digging holes, I want to know when it will start. Dammit man! Be more specific. |
| 22:14.41 | emcnabb | :-) |
| 22:14.56 | findlay | hence the paramount requirement for UTC! |
| 22:15.02 | cww | lol |
| 22:15.07 | findlay | and noon at the McNabbs! |
| 22:16.33 | macnewbold | just /whois mheath, then grab his IP, and geoIP it to find out where he is |
| 22:16.41 | macnewbold | and assume he was using local time |
| 22:17.31 | *** join/#utah vontrapp (n=von@host-118.pl107906.fiber.net) |
| 22:17.46 | Sargun | he uses a CGI::IRC proxy IIRC |
| 22:22.05 | neybar | I'm back from my break, thanks for being patient with me |
| 22:22.25 | neybar | If I wasn't working so hard I wouldn't need to take breaks like that some times. |
| 22:22.37 | neybar | but I AM working that hard. I must rule or something |
| 22:24.42 | harleypig | ARGH! Why would someone use a whole bunch of instead of surrounding the text with nobr ?! |
| 22:25.17 | harleypig | *munch* *munch* *munch* |
| 22:26.58 | levi | Hmm, GeoIP really does work pretty well. |
| 22:28.37 | *** join/#utah tristanbob (n=tristan@oalug/member/tristanbob) |
| 22:32.54 | burnthegreat | ohh thank god I don't have class tonight |
| 22:35.28 | tensai | reasonably accurate, but 500 miles inaccurate for me |
| 22:36.56 | levi | tensai: Well, are you connected to irc from the computer you're physically at, or through a server that is where GeoIP says it is? |
| 22:37.36 | tensai | levi: I looked up the actual IP I'm connected to the Internet with, not my IRC proxy's IP |
| 22:37.48 | levi | Huh. |
| 22:37.58 | levi | elg: What's got you steamed? |
| 22:37.59 | burnthegreat | jesus, how can people do tech support and not be able to read bug reports. |
| 22:38.19 | findlay | ~language burnthegreat |
| 22:38.24 | ibot | ACTION grabs burnthegreat by the ear and washes burnthegreat's mouth out with soap |
| 22:38.50 | elg | sweet. I'm in Crystal Springs, MS, UNITED STATES |
| 22:38.51 | findlay | since both sjansen and maquis seem to be indisposed at the moment |
| 22:38.57 | elg | i must be on vacation |
| 22:39.20 | *** mode/#utah [+o findlay] by ChanServ |
| 22:39.32 | elg | levi: this stupid java course |
| 22:39.41 | tensai | what? when did we give a nutter like findlay ops? |
| 22:39.50 | findlay | no kidding |
| 22:39.52 | *** mode/#utah [+o tensai] by ChanServ |
| 22:40.01 | levi | elg: Ahh... no fun. |
| 22:40.02 | findlay | now I'm an array :( |
| 22:40.03 | elg | A) Let's teach students linked lists! sweet! What can we do to make them learn linked lists? |
| 22:40.07 | tensai | that's even worse |
| 22:40.37 | elg | I know - let's take a completely random problem that's better solved with strings, and have them conver the string into linked lists |
| 22:40.47 | elg | and then do stuff that they could do easier with raw strings with the linked lists |
| 22:40.52 | elg | then convert the linked lists back into strings |
| 22:41.05 | levi | Heh. Nice totally contrived problem. |
| 22:41.12 | elg | so I have confused students who don't get the _why_ (because there is no _why_) |
| 22:41.18 | levi | Excellent motivation for teaching linked lists! |
| 22:41.41 | elg | on top of the technical difficulties like coming to the realization that java variables are references and figuring out how to traverse linked lists |
| 22:41.47 | elg | levi: oh, but it gets better |
| 22:41.49 | burnthegreat | oops my bad. Sorry about that |
| 22:41.54 | levi | Maybe the professor is preparing them to deal with Haskell and Erlang, which do strings as lists. ;) |
| 22:42.14 | dataw0lf | elg: you should recommend: http://cslibrary.stanford.edu/103/ |
| 22:42.16 | brac | [Linked List Basics] |
| 22:42.21 | elg | bioinformatics is a big area in this dept. so they decided to make every undergrad class to do something bioinformaticky |
| 22:42.45 | elg | so this lab is not only strings to linked lists and back, but it's doing DNA/mRNA/Amino Acid stuff with these linked lists |
| 22:43.15 | levi | elg: That sounds totally sweet. |
| 22:43.17 | elg | so it's not only hard to comprehend in its own right, but hard to comprehend because of all the biology that at least half of the students don't care about |
| 22:43.27 | findlay | heh |
| 22:43.56 | elg | "my roommate is a biology major, he got all excited when I told him about this lab. I just said, "it's all numbers and letters to me, dude"." |
| 22:44.14 | elg | it's almost as bad as making vontrapp use visual studio to do his algorithms class :) |
| 22:44.23 | levi | I'm sure there's some sort of bioinformatics problem that would deal with linked lists in a sane way without resorting to some arbitrary and totally pointless transformation of strings to lists and back. |
| 22:44.41 | elg | yeah, but the teacher isn't into bionformatics either, and so how would she know that? |
| 22:44.49 | levi | Heh. |
| 22:45.01 | elg | (the linked list problems came from the book, it's just been modified to do bionformatic stuff) |
| 22:45.16 | elg | this is a really... java-ish book |
| 22:45.25 | levi | What book is it? |
| 22:45.26 | elg | everything bad you might think about java, this book teaches |
| 22:45.27 | harleypig | meh ... you could make a linked list out of almost anything without resorting to a contrived example. |
| 22:46.21 | elg | -tinyurl http://www.amazon.com/Data-Structures-Other-Objects-Using/dp/0321375254 |
| 22:46.22 | brac | tinyurl: http://tinyurl.com/2g95vp |
| 22:46.41 | harleypig | -hugeurl http://tinyurl.com/2g95vp |
| 22:46.50 | macnewbold | "data structures other objects using"? that sounds like a very bad automatic translation |
| 22:46.51 | harleypig | oh well |
| 22:46.58 | elg | it's well written. it just teaches false doctrine |
| 22:47.04 | elg | like the waterfall development model, etc. |
| 22:47.12 | elg | but hey, it's written by java for java so maybe it's right on |
| 22:47.15 | levi | Looks like a pretty evil book. |
| 22:47.36 | levi | Just from the title and how it's printed. |
| 22:47.55 | levi | It says, "Steer FAR clear of me! I am evil!" to me. |
| 22:48.39 | elg | so you *can* judge a book by its cover. :) |
| 22:49.03 | levi | To some degree, at least. :) |
| 22:49.49 | levi | It would take a recommendation from someone I trust to get me to crack the cover of a book that looked like that. |
| 22:49.59 | ^Migs^ | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeVcj0bWZR8 |
| 22:52.31 | elg | that's funny |
| 22:55.26 | elg | levi: the code is terrible too |
| 22:55.37 | elg | here's the given code for the current project |
| 22:55.38 | elg | http://www.cs.nmsu.edu/~ipivkina/cs272/Homework/CharNode.java |
| 22:56.11 | elg | we observe the typical java overcommentation, which isn't a big deal |
| 22:56.54 | elg | but the trouble begins when they call what every computer science student and professor has called "next" for decades, and call it "link" |
| 22:57.13 | sjansen | ~lart emcnabb |
| 22:57.59 | elg | addNodeAfter(char) is an abomination, because it's inconsistent in that it randomly decides it's ok just this once for the method to make a new node instead of requiring the user to do it |
| 22:58.20 | elg | listCopy is a static method, so you can't do bar = foo.copy() or something sensible |
| 22:59.41 | sjansen | elg: Be sure to add a review to Amazon. |
| 23:00.08 | elg | providing this class in the first place is a grave mistake. you tell me which student on earth is going to learn more about linked lists by using a convoluted API, or by writing one himself |
| 23:00.14 | elg | s/or /than / |
| 23:00.46 | elg | sjansen: I will, at the end of the semester |
| 23:00.55 | elg | when I have the most ammunition and pent up anger |
| 23:01.24 | levi | It's a pretty poor class that can't write their own linked-list implementations. |
| 23:01.24 | elg | when I have students whose entire lives have been ruined and will never program again, because of this book |
| 23:01.32 | sjansen | Until then, you can vote for the reviews you find most "helpful". |
| 23:02.12 | sjansen | Whoa, backup, wait a minute! You have students?! |
| 23:02.36 | levi | sjansen: That's pretty normal for grad students. |
| 23:02.39 | sjansen | Aren't their international treaties preventing that sort of thing? |
| 23:03.05 | levi | They're even cheaper than adjunct professors! |
| 23:03.25 | tensai | sjansen: after they let you have students, they had the bar pretty low so elg squeaked in |
| 23:03.26 | sjansen | emcnabb: Never become a grad student. The world would never recover. |
| 23:03.32 | elg | i'm a TA, so it would be more correct to say I'm associated with students |
| 23:03.38 | elg | but don't make me do the UML |
| 23:03.43 | macnewbold | being a grad student has its ups and downs |
| 23:04.11 | sjansen | Oh, well, a TA I can understand. Nobody with an sense looks to a TA for wisdom or experience. ;-) |
| 23:04.34 | elg | and my poor computer engineer co-TA who knows not a lot about programming and even less about Java |
| 23:04.36 | sjansen | ~make elg do UML |
| 23:04.38 | ibot | make: *** No rule to make target `elg do UML'. Stop. |
| 23:05.13 | elg | sjansen: i mentioned the other day, the top student in the class (who has never asked for any help) stopped using Eclipse as soon as she saw it had nothing to do with the grade, and uses vim and javac instead |
| 23:05.21 | macnewbold | ~make restart |
| 23:05.24 | ibot | make: *** No rule to make target `restart'. Stop. |
| 23:05.26 | macnewbold | ~make all |
| 23:05.27 | ibot | make: *** No rule to make target `all'. Stop. |
| 23:05.44 | levi | Computer engineering would be cool to know more about. |
| 23:05.45 | elg | ~make blow up |
| 23:05.46 | ibot | make: *** No rule to make target `blow up'. Stop. |
| 23:06.01 | sjansen | ~report elg is a terrorist |
| 23:06.02 | ibot | okay, sjansen |
| 23:06.11 | tensai | make tegrat ekam ot elur oN |
| 23:06.11 | sjansen | ~carnivore |
| 23:06.12 | ibot | extra, extra, read all about it, carnivore is essentially a Windows 2000 based packet sniffer and set of filters that the FBI uses |
| 23:06.12 | elg | ~bookreport sjansen |
| 23:06.16 | tensai | ~make tegrat ekam ot elur oN |
| 23:06.17 | ibot | make: *** No rule to make target `tegrat ekam ot elur oN'. Stop. |
| 23:06.36 | levi | It would be interesting to know enough to be able to tell how much of an impedance mismatch there is between modern programming languages and modern computer architectures. |
| 23:07.09 | elg | levi: erlang is making me think about things in new ways, that's good |
| 23:07.21 | levi | But computer architecture seems to be kind of a black art. |
| 23:07.35 | elg | i need to learn more about OO in functional languages. isn't haskell functional too? |
| 23:07.55 | levi | Yes, haskell is even more purely functional than Erlang. |
| 23:08.21 | levi | From a certain vantage point, at least. |
| 23:09.05 | levi | The evaluation model requires that all impure portions of the program be carefully cordoned off from the pure portions. Thus the whole monad thing. |
| 23:10.17 | levi | So, you can do impure things, but you are required to pass the state of the world around between all such functions. |
| 23:10.19 | elg | i find myself wishing for some of the syntactic and organizational niceties of OO (a la ruby) combined with the functional approach of erlang. I'm keeping a list of things I like, don't like, and am not sure about with erlang |
| 23:10.35 | dataw0lf | ... |
| 23:10.37 | dataw0lf | Python? |
| 23:10.52 | elg | um, no |
| 23:10.59 | levi | dataw0lf: Python is not at all like Erlang. |
| 23:11.31 | levi | Stackless Python is close in some ways, but no closer in other fundamental ways. |
| 23:11.43 | dataw0lf | Python-Erlang... |
| 23:11.58 | elg | levi: and of course that also brings in the concurrency of erlang |
| 23:12.16 | elg | i wish I'd known before I took the parallel programming course |
| 23:12.28 | elg | but I guess we had to use MPI anyway, so it wouldn't matter much |
| 23:12.51 | levi | elg: Well, the design of erlang could probably inform your MPI programming efforts. |
| 23:13.26 | levi | Anyway, I was going to mention that Haskell is not the least bit object oriented, but it has other tools for managing complexity that are more suited to its domain. |
| 23:13.50 | levi | Parametric polymorphism, type classes, etc. |
| 23:14.07 | elg | erlang isn't OO either. |
| 23:14.19 | levi | Right, but you mentioned wanting something more OO. |
| 23:14.41 | elg | which makes me wonder, are they incompatible? or do functional people just tend to look down their noses at OO people and therefore design non-OO languages? |
| 23:14.53 | levi | Actually, I guess you actually said you wanted organizational niceties like those in OO. |
| 23:15.36 | levi | elg: There are OCaml and Scala as evidence that not all functional programmers eschew OO. |
| 23:16.09 | elg | OO to me means encapsulation of data and methods. all the rest I don't fundamentally care about, including the hiding bit |
| 23:16.45 | levi | object orientation tends to focus pretty heavily on state, though, which is somewhat anathema to functional programming. |
| 23:17.38 | elg | yeah, i admit it's OO at a more abstract or loose level than what most people (like the ones writing that evil java book) would think |
| 23:19.14 | levi | I think that the most valuable parts of OO from a software design perspective are the ability to hide complexity through offering of public interfaces and the ability to provide structured polymorphism. |
| 23:19.38 | elg | yes, and the ability to organize data |
| 23:19.56 | elg | aka namespace |
| 23:19.57 | levi | And Haskell provides those things through the concept of an abstract data type rather than objects. |
| 23:20.19 | elg | and scope |
| 23:21.33 | levi | Object orientation provides at least some of a set of useful features, but it is entirely possible to provide many of those features separately. Erlang happens to miss most of them, unfortunately, while Haskell has quite a few more of them. |
| 23:22.02 | elg | isn't haskell newer than erlang? |
| 23:22.31 | levi | I must admit to not having written any haskell programs, but I've read tutorials and haskell code and written OCaml code, which is similar in many respects. |
| 23:22.33 | elg | erlang is definitely cool because of the concurrency stuff |
| 23:22.58 | levi | I'm not sure when haskell proper came about, but it's been around for a while in some form or another. |
| 23:23.45 | levi | Haskell came out of academia, though, while erlang came, somewhat like C, from the trenches. |
| 23:24.28 | elg | yeah, trench languages do have a mystical sort of staying power |
| 23:24.45 | macnewbold | I'm pretty sure haskell is older |
| 23:25.17 | elg | erlang is ca 1989/1990 I think. at least, erlang movie was made in 1991 |
| 23:25.22 | elg | no, 1990 sorry |
| 23:25.22 | macnewbold | ML is even older, but I'm not sure where Caml, and OCaml, would fit into the timeline |
| 23:26.03 | macnewbold | that's weird, I never heard about erlang until sometime about 5 years ago. when did it start getting use external to ericsson (IIRC)? |
| 23:26.19 | elg | this has to be my least favorite erlang syntax: fun(Foo,Bar) -> ... end |
| 23:26.44 | elg | I think this would be a good syntax for defining functions: (fun Foo,Bar. ...) |
| 23:26.57 | elg | a la lambda calculus. you could use lambda too if you like typing a lot |
| 23:27.19 | levi | Huh, apparently Miranda, which is more or less the progenitor of lazy functional languages, was developed for commercial applications rather than research. |
| 23:27.44 | levi | Miranda was published in 1985. |
| 23:28.16 | levi | The first version of Haskell was defined in 1990. |
| 23:28.17 | elg | or maybe in a few years you could expect people to be able to type λ |
| 23:28.29 | findlay | does it read like a Supreme Court test? "you have the right to let a = 5", etc. :) |
| 23:28.42 | elg | macnewbold: don't know when it got out of ericsson |
| 23:28.55 | elg | the erlang movie was made at ericsson |
| 23:29.03 | levi | elg: I think the syntax grew out of Prolog and ML. |
| 23:30.07 | elg | maybe. doesn't make it pretty. |
| 23:30.24 | elg | and when I see -> I think arity, not definition. |
| 23:30.27 | levi | According to Wikipedia, Erlang appeared in 1987. |
| 23:30.50 | elg | and I don't like req'd capitalization of variables but that's just taste |
| 23:30.52 | levi | elg: It's not really a definition, it's a pattern clause. |
| 23:31.41 | elg | not with fun() |
| 23:32.09 | elg | that's an anonymous function, it's not matched. its parameters are, if that's what you mean |
| 23:32.20 | levi | Oh, I thought you meant 'fun' as a function name, not the word fun. |
| 23:32.30 | elg | no, the word fun. |
| 23:32.54 | elg | MyFunction = fun(X,Y) -> X*Y end. |
| 23:33.25 | levi | I'm not crazy about that syntax, but it's consistent with the rest of the syntax. |
| 23:34.02 | elg | yeah, it's mostly the stray end combined with the ->. anyway, it's just syntax |
| 23:34.19 | levi | Can't you also define multiple clauses separated by semicolons or whatever like you can with named functions? |
| 23:34.23 | elg | I can live with syntax, even if I have to write a syntax translation from some sane syntax I come up with :) |
| 23:34.49 | elg | separated by commas I think you mean. afaik it's the same as a named function between the -> and the end |
| 23:35.38 | levi | I mean, Myfunction = fun(X, []) -> ... end; fun(X, [Hd|Tl]) ... end. |
| 23:35.47 | findlay | dataw0lf: do you know if SQLAlchemy/SQLObject have model inheritance? |
| 23:36.02 | *** join/#utah Lone_Wanderer (n=chatzill@cg.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 23:36.15 | elg | oh, I don't think so, but i haven't got to the hidden advanced magic stuff they hide at the end of books like these :) |
| 23:36.46 | levi | I generally prefer different but simple to familiar but complex when it comes to syntax. This explains my hatred of Perl. |
| 23:37.13 | levi | And my vague distrust of Ruby, which I might be able to get over if I got around to using it. ;) |
| 23:37.16 | elg | oh i like sipmle |
| 23:37.28 | elg | ruby has a simple core syntax |
| 23:37.32 | elg | the rest is just sugar |
| 23:38.29 | sjansen | Of the languages real people actually use, Ruby is by far the best. |
| 23:38.43 | levi | Well, sugar is still complexity. Maybe I just have a poor memory for syntax, so it annoys me when I read code and can't remember what the sugar stands for. |
| 23:38.47 | maquis | ~seen redbeard1 |
| 23:39.12 | ibot | redbeard1 is currently on #ubuntu-utah #utah. Has said a total of 3 messages. Is idling for 2h 44m 11s, last said: 'is it open source, or just tech in general?'. |
| 23:39.12 | tensai | sjansen: and of the ones people don't? |
| 23:39.34 | sjansen | I've only played with them, so I can't comment on them. |
| 23:40.13 | sjansen | But if you'd like a nice rant about the louse languages people actually use (PHP, C++, Java) I can oblige. ;-) |
| 23:40.22 | sjansen | s/louse/lousy/ |
| 23:40.49 | burnthegreat | hmmm is it worth buying an ipod nano for $120 |
| 23:41.08 | elg | so anyway, I dream of a functional language with concurrency and objects and native unicode and delicious string processing and simple but not ugly syntax |
| 23:41.11 | sjansen | I plan to learn Erlang and Haskell Real Soon Now(tm) so I should be able to praise them in the future. |
| 23:41.11 | Lone_Wanderer | That depends. Do you want the nano more than you want other things you could buy for $120? |
| 23:41.16 | Lone_Wanderer | If so, yes. If not, no. |
| 23:41.18 | elg | my dream is a moving target at this stage though :) |
| 23:41.24 | sjansen | elg: Amen, brother. |
| 23:41.34 | burnthegreat | hmmm that is some great advice |
| 23:42.53 | levi | elg: fun expressions can have multiple clauses, just like regular functions. |
| 23:43.05 | elg | how are they done then? with ;? |
| 23:43.12 | elg | regular functions are separated by . |
| 23:43.13 | Lone_Wanderer | (?) |
| 23:43.25 | Lone_Wanderer | ;? |
| 23:43.26 | elg | but that wouldn't work with fun |
| 23:43.30 | Lone_Wanderer | Ahh, that's how you made it. |
| 23:43.47 | elg | made what? |
| 23:50.36 | Lone_Wanderer | the ;? thing |
| 23:50.49 | elg | it's not a thing. it's a ; and a ? |
| 23:50.51 | elg | :) |
| 23:50.56 | Lone_Wanderer | it got changed into a ? in a circle by my client, and I couldn't c&p it to find out what it was. |
| 23:51.09 | elg | really? |
| 23:51.14 | Lone_Wanderer | yeah |
| 23:51.16 | elg | that's weird |
| 23:51.34 | Lone_Wanderer | Indubitably. |
| 23:53.28 | levi | elg: No, clauses of regular functions are separated by ;s |
| 23:53.34 | levi | elg: And so are fun clauses. |
| 23:54.05 | levi | elg: If you have two functions of different arity, they are not clauses of the same function, but they are separated by .s instead of ;s. |
| 23:56.21 | levi | elg: So, standard function definition and anonymous function definition use exactly the same syntax, except you use 'fun' for the latter instead of a function name. |
| 23:58.45 | levi | Time for me to get to class. |