| 00:12.36 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 00:16.10 | levi_home | Good evening, elg. |
| 00:16.19 | elg | hi |
| 00:19.43 | *** join/#utah SpecialK (n=Bob@c-24-10-202-230.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 00:22.35 | *** join/#utah ti`ocpi (n=tiocpi@143-106.dynamicpool.suu.edu) |
| 00:28.54 | Lone_Wanderer | So, is anyone familiar with using swig on windows? |
| 00:29.04 | elg | only in cygwin |
| 00:29.33 | Lone_Wanderer | meh, okay |
| 00:30.47 | mheath | ~praise Red Hot Chili Peppers - Stadium Arcadium |
| 00:30.59 | ibot | All hail Red Hot Chili Peppers - Stadium Arcadium! |
| 00:52.17 | levi_home | elg: Did you buy the pdf+book, or just the pdf? |
| 00:52.24 | elg | pdf+book |
| 00:52.27 | *** join/#utah mheath (i=mheath@c-76-23-104-208.hsd1.sc.comcast.net) |
| 00:52.36 | levi_home | How much was it? |
| 00:52.37 | elg | but it's just pdf for now, until the book is fiished |
| 00:52.42 | levi_home | Right. |
| 00:52.48 | elg | $52 altogether |
| 00:53.10 | elg | i think that includes shipping |
| 00:53.29 | levi_home | OK, that doesn't seem too bad. |
| 00:55.58 | findlay | hello |
| 00:56.17 | levi_home | Hello, findlay. |
| 00:57.44 | Supaplex | elg: what book? |
| 00:59.49 | elg | supaplex: http://www.pragmaticprogrammer.com/titles/jaerlang/ |
| 01:00.21 | levi_home | Heh, a Windows Vista ad with an iBook in it. |
| 01:00.32 | elg | levi_home: looks like the pdf only is $22.50 |
| 01:01.05 | levi_home | elg: I'm surprised you didn't go for that option, mr. frugal. :) |
| 01:01.20 | elg | yeah, i surprise myself sometimes |
| 01:01.38 | elg | it helps that I have a business account with some money |
| 01:01.49 | elg | and it being a business expense |
| 01:01.51 | levi_home | Ahh, I see. :) |
| 01:01.57 | levi_home | That would help. |
| 01:03.25 | levi_home | Apparently Joe Armstrong has a series of tutorials on his site, too. |
| 01:04.00 | Supaplex | humm neat. |
| 01:09.06 | elg | i've more than once wished I had programming ruby in hardcopy, for the physical reference |
| 01:09.26 | elg | that's why I sprung for the combo, even though I probably will have read the pdf long before the book comse |
| 01:09.42 | mheath | I should learn a new programming language. Hmm. |
| 01:09.59 | elg | erlang is the hip language to learn |
| 01:10.30 | mheath | Why do all the military websites I visit have invalid certs? |
| 01:10.43 | mheath | Seen a ton with expired ones... |
| 01:10.55 | elg | because they're too important to bother with updating certs |
| 01:11.46 | *** join/#utah jnielsen (i=jn@c-76-23-109-98.hsd1.sc.comcast.net) |
| 01:12.08 | mheath | They're all really slow too |
| 01:12.52 | levi_home | Hah; new gadget design from the Optimus keyboard folks: http://www.artlebedev.com/everything/verbarius/ |
| 01:13.12 | levi_home | mheath: Learn Ada, so you can write software for the military. |
| 01:13.26 | Sargun | mheath, Learn ASM. |
| 01:13.30 | mheath | I really could work on a programming class |
| 01:13.49 | mheath | I'm going to need a programming class to complete my degree after my training here. |
| 01:14.01 | levi_home | Ada is actually a reasonable, if verbose, language. |
| 01:14.10 | mheath | Sargun: You missed your chance to sell me a VPS |
| 01:14.10 | levi_home | It has an interesting type system. |
| 01:14.18 | mheath | goozbach had a better deal anyway |
| 01:14.27 | mheath | levi_home, yeah, it actually does look interesting. |
| 01:14.31 | Sargun | mheath, I saw that earlier, but I knew you wouldn't purchase one from me |
| 01:16.17 | mheath | yah, I have some college credit already from the military :) |
| 01:17.13 | mheath | 1 Semester Hour in Personal Conditioning, 1 in Personal/Community Health, 3 Semester Hours in Introduction to Marine Engineering, and 1 in Blueprint Reading |
| 01:17.44 | mheath | Those last two are automatic and come with my rank (Fireman)....I don't know a thing about Marine Engineering or Blueprint Reading :P |
| 01:17.53 | mheath | (rest assured, I will before I can actually do anything with those credits) |
| 01:23.30 | mheath | Someone want to do me a favor and see if https://www.navy-nex.com/ is taking forever to load for you, too? |
| 01:24.19 | Supaplex | supaplex@armada:~$ time HEAD https://www.navy-nex.com/ = real 0m1.192s |
| 01:24.54 | elg | SHOULDERS |
| 01:26.16 | mheath | KNEES |
| 01:26.34 | ScytheBlade1 | You guys misses HEAD |
| 01:26.41 | ScytheBlade1 | *missed |
| 01:27.04 | ScytheBlade1 | ... or I'm blind and mostly busy doing homework |
| 01:27.53 | mheath | today is my last night off |
| 01:27.56 | mheath | For 6 months :) |
| 01:30.12 | *** join/#utah Hunding (n=denns@VDSL-151-118-128-82.DNVR.QWEST.NET) |
| 01:30.12 | *** join/#utah cbrown (n=cbrown@fw.vpxp.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 01:30.13 | *** join/#utah eco (n=eco@gnuk.net) |
| 01:30.14 | Supaplex | KNUTZ |
| 01:30.53 | elg | "Our strategy is not to totally eliminate errors. This is almost impossibly |
| 01:30.53 | elg | dif ficult. Instead we’ll design code that lives with errors—we let the |
| 01:30.53 | elg | errors occur, detect them, and then try to correct them. |
| 01:30.53 | elg | The Erlang motto for this is Let it crash. |
| 01:30.53 | elg | " |
| 01:30.53 | Supaplex | *splat* |
| 01:33.13 | mheath | Does anyone have any recommendations on a low end, point-and-shoot digital camera? |
| 01:47.33 | levi_home | elg: A very different strategy than what I'm used to. :) |
| 01:53.39 | vontrapp | how robust are networkable HD enclosures? |
| 02:15.28 | *** join/#utah nick125_lappy (n=nick@nat.nick125.com) |
| 02:19.46 | elg | levi_home: ya. I like it. it fits that whole living software idea |
| 02:20.07 | elg | in the wild you have to deal with problems, not engineer them away |
| 02:20.17 | nick125_lappy | mmm |
| 02:20.36 | elg | -lart nick125_lappy twice |
| 02:21.06 | nick125_lappy | lol |
| 02:21.47 | mheath | Odd. |
| 02:21.53 | elg | oooh, I like the bit syntax |
| 02:21.56 | mheath | Firefox isn't interpreting a page correctly. =\ |
| 02:22.04 | mheath | I get valid HTML in text. |
| 02:22.15 | mheath | Internet Explorer has no problem with rendering the page |
| 02:23.51 | elg | this bit syntax stuff makes me want to code something up for midi |
| 02:24.00 | elg | or some network protocol |
| 02:25.47 | mheath | What would be causing this? |
| 02:26.08 | mheath | It's valid HTML |
| 02:26.12 | elg | maybe a bug. maybe it's not as valid as you think. maybe they're discriminating |
| 02:26.31 | levi_home | mheath: Wrong content type, I'll bet. |
| 02:26.40 | elg | maybe the lunar eclipse affected your system |
| 02:26.59 | mheath | Well, why does IE work with it and Firefox doesn't? |
| 02:27.36 | mheath | http://www2.latech.edu/~acm/HelloWorld.shtml <-- Someone else wantto check to see if they have the same problem? |
| 02:27.43 | brac | //www2.latech.edu/~acm/HelloWorld.shtml <-- Someone else on. |
| 02:27.56 | ScytheBlade1 | mheath, doctype |
| 02:28.19 | mheath | What's wrong with the Doctype? |
| 02:28.53 | ScytheBlade1 | The server is sending it incorrectly |
| 02:29.01 | ScytheBlade1 | Probably something stupid like text/plain |
| 02:29.09 | ScytheBlade1 | Firefox will in turn render it as text/plain |
| 02:29.22 | ScytheBlade1 | Err, that's not doctype, that's mime type |
| 02:29.49 | mheath | Why is it that Internet Explorer can figure out that this is indeed HTML, though, and Firefox can't? |
| 02:30.04 | mheath | (Does anyone else have the same problem in Firefox? I know I've looked at that same page before IN firefox and had it work OK) |
| 02:30.36 | ScytheBlade1 | Because the server is telling firefox that it's text |
| 02:30.40 | vontrapp | well, think of it this way, say you actually _wanted_ it to show up as text/plain, and IE goes around guessing things and gets it wrong |
| 02:30.41 | levi_home | mheath: Firefox is behaving correctly according to specification, while IE is doing the intended thing that is technically wrong. |
| 02:30.49 | ScytheBlade1 | What levi_home said |
| 02:30.52 | ScytheBlade1 | FF is doing what it's told |
| 02:30.53 | ScytheBlade1 | IE isn;t |
| 02:30.58 | ScytheBlade1 | s/;/'/ |
| 02:30.59 | vontrapp | doing the right thing isn't always doing the correct thing |
| 02:31.10 | mheath | ah, you're right. |
| 02:31.16 | mheath | text/plain |
| 02:31.46 | ScytheBlade1 | If it was sent as almost *anything* else, FF would pick up on it |
| 02:32.57 | mheath | hmmm, I need to go take a shower. |
| 02:33.01 | mheath | Be back in a moment. |
| 02:33.05 | levi_home | mheath: Yeah, you stink. ;) |
| 02:33.39 | mheath | heh, I do |
| 02:33.46 | mheath | got back from a run a couple of minutes ago |
| 02:33.51 | mheath | need to fold laundry too =\ |
| 02:34.12 | vontrapp | then your laundry will smell |
| 02:36.08 | mheath | I wish I could find a simple VOIP client |
| 02:36.24 | mheath | Yahoo has the best rates (1 cent per minute!) but I hate how bloated the program is. |
| 02:36.38 | *** join/#utah nick125_c (n=nick@nat.nick125.com) |
| 02:36.52 | vontrapp | i hate how Yahoo! they are |
| 02:44.35 | QBFreak | they are what? |
| 02:44.40 | QBFreak | I'm hanging on the edge of my seat here |
| 02:44.57 | QBFreak | oh, misread |
| 02:44.59 | QBFreak | well phoey |
| 02:45.49 | mheath | Tropical Utilities? ahh |
| 02:46.03 | mheath | I think I'll kill myself if they ever make me wear these: http://buperscd.technology.navy.mil/bup_updt/508/unireg/chapter3/Enlisted/images/em_15.jpg |
| 02:46.25 | mheath | Those shorts and knee socks just don't do it for me. |
| 02:46.51 | QBFreak | it doesn't look that bad to me |
| 02:46.57 | QBFreak | but my socks are already rather tall :) |
| 02:48.46 | levi_home | Poor Brent Spiner. His character in Independance Day doesn't last very long. |
| 02:49.33 | mheath | http://buperscd.technology.navy.mil/bup_updt/508/unireg/chapter3/Enlisted/images/em_02.jpg |
| 02:49.35 | mheath | Hmm |
| 02:49.44 | mheath | Didn't know there was an enlisted uniform like that |
| 03:00.51 | elg | looks more like royal carribean staff |
| 03:02.35 | mheath | yeah |
| 03:02.52 | findlay | it's time for Haydn |
| 03:03.52 | mheath | It's sharp looking, but not very Navy-ish |
| 03:19.13 | rsimpkins | It looks like a guy off the love boat. |
| 03:25.17 | mheath | http://www.nsgreatlakes.navy.mil/NRAC/posters/images/maledressblues.jpg looks much sharper :) |
| 03:25.24 | mheath | Though I prefer working blues not dress blues |
| 03:51.32 | tensai | levi_home: short, but one of Spiner's best performances I thought |
| 03:53.26 | *** join/#utah nick125- (n=ndevito@m320e36d0.tmodns.net) |
| 03:53.41 | rsimpkins | what is stripping? |
| 03:53.51 | *** join/#utah Newsome (n=sorenson@adsl-75-0-136-70.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net) |
| 03:53.54 | rsimpkins | 'keep it clean' |
| 03:54.02 | rsimpkins | as in - not dirty - or something else? |
| 03:55.25 | *** join/#utah linuxalien (i=UNKNOWN@oalug/member/linuxalien) |
| 03:55.39 | rsimpkins | Someone must have a lot of time on their hands to decide how military people should look. |
| 03:55.41 | levi_home | tensai: Yeah, it was a good one. |
| 03:57.54 | nick125- | rsimpkins: ...and the millions in tax dollars |
| 03:59.15 | rsimpkins | Can't we just put our military guys in t-shirts and jeans? |
| 03:59.46 | rsimpkins | Give them a white t-shirt, a sharpie, and have them DRAW the dang isginias and stuff. |
| 04:00.16 | rsimpkins | Wait, never mind, the military would pay a fortune for a 'regulation uniform marker'. A sharpie would end up being like $2303.32 |
| 04:00.49 | nick125- | when a normal sharpie would work, and only cost $0.50! |
| 04:02.45 | levi_home | The standard gov't pens aren't that expensive. |
| 04:12.07 | mheath | rsimpkins, striping refers to the white strips on the cuffs and on the flap on the back |
| 04:12.25 | mheath | And, in the case of THAT particular uniform, very little of your tax dollars goes into it |
| 04:12.38 | mheath | As THAT uniform has changed very little in the last 100 years |
| 04:13.16 | mheath | http://www.quarterdeck.org/About/what-CrackerJacks.jpg |
| 04:13.21 | rsimpkins | mheath: Have you ever stopped to thnik though how much time it must have taken to figure out how the various uniforms should fit together? |
| 04:14.57 | mheath | I did not say anything about uniforms in general |
| 04:15.00 | rsimpkins | okay, maybe you guys can answer this. I saw on tv once that the president of the united states has a military uniform. he just never wears it. true? |
| 04:15.23 | mheath | I know that millions of dollars have been put into researching uniforms |
| 04:15.58 | mheath | For example, the uniforms I wear are all going to change next year |
| 04:16.09 | mheath | Because they've all been redesigned (except for the dress uniform) |
| 04:16.15 | rsimpkins | I haven't been able to find any info on it, just saw it on tv for a split second one night during tour of the presidents stuff. |
| 04:16.39 | mheath | rsimpkins, he might have something pseudo-military, but it's not going to be a real normal military uniform |
| 04:16.48 | mheath | Because he's not authorized to wear any of those. |
| 04:17.02 | rsimpkins | mheath: from what I understand this is a real military uniform. |
| 04:17.05 | mheath | (granted, he could make himself authorized to wear one of them) |
| 04:17.09 | rsimpkins | commander in chief uniform. |
| 04:17.16 | mheath | well, you misunderstood what I meant |
| 04:17.19 | mheath | not saying it's not real |
| 04:17.30 | elg | not a uniform other people wear, is what you meant |
| 04:17.38 | mheath | just that it's not going to be a Army, Marine Corps, Navy, or Air Force Uniform |
| 04:17.41 | elg | doesn't mean it's not military though |
| 04:17.54 | rsimpkins | mheath: right, this is supposed to be a special uniform just for the pres. |
| 04:18.00 | mheath | One big reason he can't wear one of those is because he can't wear rank insignia on any of them |
| 04:18.03 | mheath | As he does not have a rank |
| 04:18.04 | rsimpkins | I haven't been able to find any info on it thought. |
| 04:18.07 | brac | One big button |
| 04:18.16 | elg | or one little button |
| 04:18.46 | mheath | Man, Utah state legislation is confusing |
| 04:19.03 | rsimpkins | The news had like 10-20 seconds of it explaining that they spend x dollars on this military uniform for the president, which he likley will never ever wear. |
| 04:19.20 | mheath | I wish I could figure out what my real rights are as a 17 year old in the military. |
| 04:21.06 | mheath | rsimpkins, I don't believe he has a uniform though |
| 04:21.36 | mheath | I know there was a big uproar when he wore a USAF flight suit when he pulled that big publicity stunt landing on the aircraft carreir |
| 04:21.37 | rsimpkins | mheath: I could be mistaken, but I swore it was true. |
| 04:21.38 | mheath | *carrier |
| 04:21.52 | rsimpkins | mheath: regan did the same thing. |
| 04:26.04 | mheath | http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/9e/New_US_navy_Working_Uniform.jpg |
| 04:32.01 | mheath | thats going to be my new uniform next year |
| 04:38.17 | mheath | Time for sleep. I have school in the morning... |
| 04:40.02 | elg | yum, i'm into the concurrency chapter now |
| 04:42.15 | *** join/#utah mheath (i=mheath@c-76-23-104-208.hsd1.sc.comcast.net) |
| 05:07.23 | *** part/#utah Newsome (n=sorenson@adsl-75-0-136-70.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net) |
| 05:21.36 | tensai | what's a "bippy", as in "you bet your bippy"? |
| 05:26.26 | sontek | your rear end |
| 07:06.02 | Supaplex | bah, yesterday escaped. who let it out... fess up... |
| 07:09.39 | Sargun | me! |
| 07:19.35 | nick125_lappy | Has anyone here ever looked at using USB Key + Password for login authentication? |
| 07:20.32 | Sargun | for what? |
| 07:21.09 | nick125_lappy | For example, in order to login to a machine, I have to insert my USB key and (possibly/optionally) enter a password |
| 07:22.12 | Sargun | oh |
| 07:22.27 | Sargun | standard USB key? |
| 07:22.40 | nick125_lappy | yeah... |
| 07:22.42 | Sargun | http://www.pamusb.org/ |
| 07:22.43 | nick125_lappy | USB drive |
| 07:22.50 | nick125_lappy | I was just looking at that |
| 07:22.59 | nick125_lappy | I'm wondering, for GDM, how would that work? |
| 07:25.10 | Sargun | uh |
| 07:26.46 | Sargun | you add it as an option |
| 07:26.49 | Sargun | in the pam file |
| 07:26.56 | nick125_lappy | sounds like fun |
| 07:29.08 | nick125_lappy | brb |
| 07:31.34 | maquis | *yawn* |
| 07:34.42 | Sargun | hiya macnewbold |
| 07:34.46 | Sargun | maquis I mean |
| 07:48.01 | *** join/#utah nick125_lappy (n=nick@nat.nick125.com) |
| 07:49.08 | nick125_lappy | that wasn't so hard.. |
| 07:51.48 | findlay | hello |
| 08:02.46 | *** join/#utah nick125_lappy (n=nick@nat.nick125.com) |
| 08:18.59 | Sargun | cya |
| 08:23.59 | nick125_lappy | Anyone here know how to use Xnest? |
| 08:42.23 | Sargun | no |
| 08:45.32 | Supaplex | nay |
| 08:56.48 | tene | nick125_lappy: yes |
| 08:57.09 | tene | nick125_lappy: just tell me what you want to do. |
| 10:03.39 | *** join/#utah nick125_lappy (n=nick@nat.nick125.com) |
| 10:59.29 | maquis | **** |
| 11:07.34 | tene | ++++ |
| 11:32.46 | maquis | *grumble* |
| 12:00.10 | maquis | bah... i'm useless |
| 13:38.34 | *** join/#utah graphyx (n=graphyx@205.208.245.105) |
| 13:56.10 | goozbach | morning! |
| 13:56.14 | goozbach | pineapple! |
| 14:04.50 | graphyx | morning sugarplum |
| 14:21.45 | elg | -chat |
| 14:21.45 | brac | esp when it's fun. |
| 14:29.37 | *** join/#utah jsmith_ (n=jsmith@000-136-834.area3.spcsdns.net) |
| 14:56.31 | *** join/#utah jayce_home (n=jayce@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 15:08.43 | *** join/#utah harleypig (n=harleypi@160.7.237.70) |
| 15:08.56 | harleypig | <a href="http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=123_1173008810">LiveLeak.com - Spectators Run Over By Rally Car</a> |
| 15:10.38 | redbeard1 | ~lart harleypig |
| 15:13.31 | *** join/#utah phinux (n=phinux@iocane.cs.byu.edu) |
| 15:14.39 | *** join/#utah jsmith_ (n=jsmith@h46058cca.area7.spcsdns.net) |
| 15:15.03 | redbeard1 | ~onjoin elg my sister was bit by a moose once |
| 15:15.03 | ibot | ok, redbeard1 |
| 15:22.24 | *** join/#utah spr (n=spr@c-71-195-212-252.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 15:25.08 | *** join/#utah graphyx (n=graphyx@205.208.245.105) |
| 15:28.45 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@dhcp08.cs.nmsu.edu) |
| 15:29.08 | elg | which sister ibot? |
| 15:35.10 | redbeard1 | ~bite elg |
| 15:35.14 | ibot | ACTION takes a big bite out of elg's jugular vein |
| 15:36.47 | harleypig | "We’ve all been sinners in the hands of an angry porcelain god." - TheWaiter |
| 15:39.30 | goozbach | important question of the day: Are Vulcans Elves? |
| 15:40.31 | redbeard1 | goozbach: they're too tall to be elves |
| 15:40.45 | redbeard1 | well, unless they're woodelves |
| 15:40.46 | harleypig | Tolkien elves were tall. |
| 15:41.00 | elg | and some vulcans are not |
| 15:41.17 | elg | i think vulcans are descended from elves |
| 15:41.23 | elg | and klingons are descended from trolls |
| 15:41.29 | elg | and ferengi from gollum |
| 15:41.35 | redbeard1 | how long do vulcans live? are they generally considered mortal? |
| 15:42.21 | elg | mortal, yes. they live loooong time |
| 15:42.21 | harleypig | ? <disgust>yeah</disgust> |
| 15:42.21 | elg | but mortal. spock's dad died of old age |
| 15:42.21 | harleypig | On average ~400 years. |
| 15:42.24 | harleypig | In TOS Spock was in his 60s. |
| 15:42.39 | *** join/#utah tiwula (n=lane@208.64.90.18.utahbroadband.com) |
| 15:42.55 | redbeard1 | aren't elves generally immortal, unless they choose mortality like arwen evenstar did? |
| 15:43.09 | phinux | But Tolkein elves loved nature and green things. While Planet Vulcan is largely desert. |
| 15:43.11 | harleypig | Depends on the fantasy you're reading. |
| 15:43.20 | elg | maybe vulcans learned to love desert |
| 15:43.23 | goozbach | I'm just wondering if "into the east" == "space" |
| 15:43.31 | harleypig | :D |
| 15:43.52 | redbeard1 | harleypig: i don't know that i've ever seen the elven mortality rate discussed in any fantasies outside of lotr |
| 15:44.03 | redbeard1 | that punk |
| 15:44.04 | goozbach | it's been a hotly debated here at work for a few weeks not |
| 15:47.32 | redbeard1 | volcans and romulans are cousins, aren't they? |
| 15:49.55 | goozbach | redbeard1: according to wikipedia, yes. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vulcans |
| 15:53.34 | Jayce^ | so dataw0lf, how'd it go? |
| 15:56.03 | *** part/#utah phinux (n=phinux@iocane.cs.byu.edu) |
| 16:01.58 | *** join/#utah vontrapp_ (n=von@71.35.254.49) |
| 16:13.34 | unum | shouldn't if($name=~'/\w.*/') return true if name starts with a letter |
| 16:13.56 | unum | oh no quotes |
| 16:14.14 | unum | much better nm |
| 16:18.37 | *** join/#utah Lone_Wanderer (n=chatzill@cg.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 16:18.39 | unum | actually that would match anything with a letter |
| 16:20.39 | elg | ~rowr |
| 16:21.47 | Lone_Wanderer | nice |
| 16:22.58 | elg | 4x improvement. and like 32e3 times as large as my family's first hdd |
| 16:23.15 | emcnabb | great, I'm getting a lot of Wordpress blog spam |
| 16:23.20 | emcnabb | ~lart spammers |
| 16:23.31 | elg | ibot: you wuss |
| 16:24.25 | elg | don't let go of that lifeline |
| 16:24.57 | emcnabb | nice, elg is a hardcore PHP haxor, what is this world coming to? |
| 16:26.01 | *** join/#utah wps (n=wps@67.108.236.230.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 16:27.25 | graphyx | elg: What was the size of your first harddrive? |
| 16:27.28 | graphyx | 10 megs here |
| 16:28.19 | elg | 10mb |
| 16:31.55 | vontrapp | a 5.5 floppy here |
| 16:32.11 | vontrapp | er, 5.25 |
| 16:32.52 | elg | well yeah, duh |
| 16:34.25 | *** join/#utah neybar (n=jalance@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 16:34.53 | vontrapp | don't think it was even DD, so about 90K |
| 16:35.16 | vontrapp | when i try to run my windows from vmware it just hangs trying to resume |
| 16:35.23 | *** join/#utah ben_ (i=bytheway@xmission.xmission.com) |
| 16:35.26 | vontrapp | maybe i should reboot into it normal and then not suspend |
| 16:35.35 | vontrapp | but that requires a reboot :( |
| 16:36.14 | vontrapp | it does more than hang, actually, it consumes all my cpu |
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| 16:40.32 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
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| 16:41.34 | herlo | l |
| 16:42.54 | beandog_ | mo'nin |
| 16:44.08 | graphyx | Please remove disk #1 and flip it over and close the drive and press the spacebar |
| 16:44.21 | graphyx | that was from before they had the any key |
| 16:45.03 | Lone_Wanderer | Before they had a lot of things, apparently. |
| 16:45.48 | beandog_ | flip over a floppy |
| 16:45.49 | beandog_ | man. |
| 16:45.55 | beandog_ | wow that does bring back memories. |
| 16:46.07 | Lone_Wanderer | I used to play adventure games on my Mac 512k enhanced. You had to switch disks in and out ALL the time. |
| 16:46.12 | brac | I used elg on the news? |
| 16:46.19 | Lone_Wanderer | It was how you could tell that something exciting was going to happen. |
| 16:46.27 | *** join/#utah harleypig (n=harleypi@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 16:46.28 | Lone_Wanderer | When it told you to insert a disk that you've never used before. |
| 16:46.41 | beandog_ | yah |
| 16:46.42 | beandog_ | I remember that |
| 16:46.48 | levi | Lone_Wanderer: Like in King's Quest or something? |
| 16:46.53 | Lone_Wanderer | levi: yeah |
| 16:46.55 | graphyx | I seriously think that the invention of the phrase any key has allowed for countless hours of fun for the computer illiterate! |
| 16:47.06 | harleypig | It appears that Britney Spears is suffering from Post Partum Depression. Brooke Shields has volunteered to help Britney through this trying time in her life. |
| 16:47.11 | graphyx | it even had music |
| 16:47.18 | harleypig | In return, Britney has volunteered to shave Brookes eyebrows. |
| 16:47.29 | Lone_Wanderer | harleypig: by giving her vitamins and exercising with her? Oh wait, that's Tom Cruise. |
| 16:48.27 | Lone_Wanderer | I feel sorry for the girl. Lots of women get post partum depression and do crazy things, but they don't have it spread all over the media. |
| 16:49.09 | graphyx | Lone_Wanderer: Are you serious? Don't you realize that for her PR team that no news is bad news? |
| 16:49.22 | Lone_Wanderer | PR team? |
| 16:49.23 | graphyx | They are eating this up |
| 16:49.30 | graphyx | yes |
| 16:49.31 | Lone_Wanderer | I feel sorry for Britney. Her PR team can go to hell. |
| 16:49.41 | Lone_Wanderer | Post partum depression is not a fun thing to deal with. |
| 16:49.47 | brac | Post partum Depression. Brooke Shields has volunteered to help |
| 16:49.51 | harleypig | Lone_Wanderer: Sure they do, but it's usually not in the entertainment section. |
| 16:49.58 | Lone_Wanderer | Exactly. |
| 16:49.58 | levi | I find it difficult to muster much sympathy for Britney. |
| 16:50.02 | Lone_Wanderer | That can't be fun for her. |
| 16:50.05 | graphyx | Post partum does suck |
| 16:50.39 | harleypig | Did everyone miss my statement following that anouncement? |
| 16:50.39 | elg | say all the men |
| 16:50.52 | graphyx | elg: My wife gets it |
| 16:51.03 | graphyx | and she is pregnant due in Sept |
| 16:51.14 | graphyx | and her sister goes nuts. |
| 16:51.20 | graphyx | completely |
| 16:51.26 | graphyx | from it. |
| 16:51.29 | elg | post-partum mania you mean? |
| 16:51.43 | graphyx | yeah |
| 16:51.54 | elg | it can actually swing either way, I hear |
| 16:52.06 | graphyx | I think that was one of the things that broke up her first marriage |
| 16:52.24 | graphyx | You mean that some are really happy afterwards? |
| 16:52.32 | harleypig | "Ah kitchens - it’s all about tequila, buggery, and the lash!" - TheWaiter |
| 16:52.53 | Lone_Wanderer | mania is more than just being really happy |
| 16:53.02 | Lone_Wanderer | it can be just as dangerous as severe depression |
| 16:53.12 | elg | graphyx: I mean it can either be depression or mania |
| 16:53.20 | elg | Lone_Wanderer: and a lot scarier |
| 16:53.29 | Lone_Wanderer | yeah |
| 16:53.32 | graphyx | it was depression |
| 16:53.40 | graphyx | but she did go nuts it seems |
| 16:53.41 | harleypig | elg: It can also trigger any latent bipolar tendencies. |
| 16:53.52 | elg | yeah, I know |
| 16:53.53 | levi | Severely depressed people kind of mope around. Manic people just nuts and DO stuff. |
| 16:53.59 | levi | s/just/go |
| 16:54.21 | levi | And it's not always good stuff. |
| 16:54.23 | elg | people underestimate the effect of depression |
| 16:54.32 | elg | when someone is manic, it really freaks people out |
| 16:55.03 | elg | it's too bad her husband couldn't take it |
| 16:55.23 | graphyx | um she moved in with her mom 1800 miles away |
| 16:55.25 | graphyx | took the kids |
| 16:55.27 | levi | elg: The wife of one of the old counselors in our bishopric is bipolar, and my wife had to deal with her as part of her calling. Yow. |
| 16:55.38 | graphyx | lived there for a year |
| 16:55.40 | Lone_Wanderer | My little sister once said "If I ever got depressed, I'd just tell myself, 'Come on Emily, snap out of it', and be happy." |
| 16:55.40 | goozbach | http://www.schlockmercenary.com/d/20061023.html |
| 16:55.41 | graphyx | maxed out the ccs |
| 16:55.52 | graphyx | well maybe not the ccs |
| 16:55.54 | Lone_Wanderer | Now she's got post partum depression and I want to remind her of what she said >.> |
| 16:56.05 | elg | hehe. remind her after it's over |
| 16:56.07 | levi | Lone_Wanderer: That would be helpful! ;P |
| 16:56.11 | elg | when she has perspective |
| 16:56.27 | Lone_Wanderer | good plan |
| 16:57.34 | elg | levi: yeah, I know someone who is bipolar. luckily she is usually perfectly normal |
| 16:57.43 | elg | some have it much worse |
| 16:58.09 | levi | This woman apparently has it pretty bad, along with a pretty heavy dose of paranoia and anxiety in crowds. |
| 16:58.18 | graphyx | One of my mission companions was bipolar |
| 16:58.28 | Lone_Wanderer | I suspect that most people know a few people that have some kind of depression, but they don't know it. |
| 16:58.36 | graphyx | I was his first junior companion. |
| 16:58.43 | elg | Lone_Wanderer: yes, definitely |
| 16:58.47 | levi | She was in the calling that required her to interact with my wife because they were afraid she'd kill herself if she was released. |
| 16:58.58 | elg | or at least some kind of mental disorder (the most common of which is depression) |
| 16:59.06 | levi | I had a bout of depression while I was at BYU. |
| 16:59.09 | graphyx | Have the days he had no faith and was too fat. Other times he was ready to take on the world. |
| 16:59.30 | elg | half the days? i thought you were brac for a sec |
| 16:59.40 | Lone_Wanderer | levi: isn't that a bit like dating someone because they say they'll kill themselves if you break up with them? I mean, that's what the psych ward is for. |
| 16:59.44 | graphyx | half the days |
| 17:00.13 | elg | the psych ward is expensive |
| 17:00.15 | elg | and no fun |
| 17:00.34 | Lone_Wanderer | This is true. |
| 17:00.35 | levi | Lone_Wanderer: It is a bit like that, yes. Calling my wife as her 'assistant' was not a great move on their part. The woman felt incredibly threatened that my wife was doing her job (since she was doing next to nothing) and did some really crazy stuff. |
| 17:00.46 | graphyx | After three months the mission president switched him to the ZL companionship and then another month he was brought into the mission home and then sent home with a medical condition |
| 17:01.12 | Lone_Wanderer | graphyx: why didn't they just get him on medication? |
| 17:01.23 | elg | poor guy. at least he got to serve for awhile |
| 17:01.34 | elg | medication doesn't always work, or work right |
| 17:01.40 | elg | and some bipolar have a hard time staying on meds |
| 17:01.41 | levi | I had to make trips to LDS Social Services with several of my companions on my mission. Fortunately, none of their conditions were particularly serious. |
| 17:01.46 | graphyx | Lone_Wanderer: In Italy, they prefered to send people home for some problems |
| 17:01.53 | Lone_Wanderer | It sounds like they didn't even try it though. And it'd be easy on your mission, just have your companion help you remember. |
| 17:02.05 | elg | it's not usually about remembering |
| 17:02.21 | Lone_Wanderer | "remember", i.e. "Elder, you NEED to take your meds." |
| 17:02.22 | graphyx | Socialized medical treatment |
| 17:02.58 | graphyx | For some things it is best to be treated when you speak the same language as the doctor |
| 17:02.58 | Lone_Wanderer | I know a girl who went to Australia and had some problem, I don't know what it was, while she was there. Her doctor just grabbed some meds randomly and gave them to her. |
| 17:03.01 | elg | i couldn't even get some of my comps to make phone calls or get up in the morning |
| 17:03.09 | levi | Sometimes it takes trials with several different kinds of medication before you find one that works, too. |
| 17:03.20 | graphyx | elg: Seriously |
| 17:03.21 | Lone_Wanderer | They gave her paranoid delusions and made her unable to sleep. |
| 17:03.40 | levi | And they all take at least a couple of weeks before they are in full effect, anyway. |
| 17:04.01 | graphyx | Lone_Wanderer: to be honest I don't really know what they did or didn't do after he got transfered. |
| 17:04.07 | Lone_Wanderer | mmkay |
| 17:04.27 | Lone_Wanderer | There were a few elders in my mission who had similar problems. I don't think that any of them were handled very well. |
| 17:04.52 | Lone_Wanderer | It seems like they should have some standard procedures for dealing with psychiatric problems. |
| 17:05.00 | elg | i don't think it is handled very well hardly ever in our society |
| 17:05.02 | elg | sadly |
| 17:05.26 | graphyx | But he told me that his parents had helped him get his drivers licence but after his first time on the road he decided that he didn't want to do that and shreaded his licence. |
| 17:05.42 | levi | Yeah, mental illness is difficult for us to deal with because it changes who you are, and that's a fundamentally frightening concept for Westerners in particular. |
| 17:05.45 | Lone_Wanderer | Yeah, but at least in the mission field you've got some control over things. They could just add a chapter to the manual (or whatever) that the mission presidents get. |
| 17:06.00 | levi | We would rather lock mentally ill people away and pretend they don't exist. |
| 17:06.19 | beandog_ | well the thing is there are gradients of "mental illness" |
| 17:06.24 | Lone_Wanderer | Not all of them, levi. Depression in particular doesn't change your base personality. |
| 17:06.43 | beandog_ | someone could have mental problems and still function somewhat normally in society |
| 17:06.52 | levi | Lone_Wanderer: But it does change your behavior. |
| 17:07.01 | Lone_Wanderer | If left untreated it can lead to some really bad things like schizophrenia, but in general it's very treatable. |
| 17:07.26 | Lone_Wanderer | Yes, but it's not like some things where no matter what you do, there's no permanent cure. |
| 17:07.49 | levi | Lone_Wanderer: I'm not disputing that. I'm just saying that it's particular hard for people who don't have it to understand. |
| 17:07.50 | beandog_ | it still is going to depend on a person's physical chemistry if and when drugs are going to work |
| 17:07.53 | brac | I'm not talking about objects and have it be working fine now. |
| 17:07.55 | Lone_Wanderer | k |
| 17:08.23 | levi | Lone_Wanderer: People who aren't depressed think that the depressed person is simply 'choosing' to be depressed and they just need to cheer themselves up. |
| 17:08.39 | Lone_Wanderer | Yeah, that's absolutely true. It's hard to understand that you can't just take a quick walk in the sun and feel better. |
| 17:08.39 | beandog_ | sadly true. |
| 17:08.54 | elg | and they think they know what it's like because they sometimes feel "down" too |
| 17:08.56 | beandog_ | it's not a matter of attitude |
| 17:09.20 | beandog_ | emotions are a physiological response, if your chemistry is whacked, no amount of warm fuzzies is going to help. |
| 17:09.24 | Lone_Wanderer | (although attitude can be a factor.) |
| 17:09.43 | elg | sure |
| 17:09.47 | elg | ~fuzz beandog_ |
| 17:10.12 | levi | And this is especially frightening to westerners, because we have such a strong attachment to the concepts of individualism, self-determination, etc. |
| 17:10.13 | elg | you stepped on a nail too?! |
| 17:10.29 | Lone_Wanderer | And then... he beat me up... *sniff* and said I was a BIG NERD! *sobs* |
| 17:10.47 | Lone_Wanderer | I think I might have once, elg. |
| 17:10.59 | elg | i stepped on a few nails |
| 17:11.00 | Lone_Wanderer | I sustained a lot of injuries when I was a kid. |
| 17:11.06 | elg | but the big one went way up in my foot |
| 17:11.10 | elg | lots of fun |
| 17:11.11 | Lone_Wanderer | ouch! |
| 17:11.12 | levi | We want to believe that we completely determine our feelings and actions and such, and mental illness is a big ugly crack in that worldview. |
| 17:11.25 | elg | vontrapp: we must have been walking on the same ground :) |
| 17:11.40 | Lone_Wanderer | levi: have you heard of The Secret? It's a book that Oprah keeps going on about. |
| 17:11.54 | levi | Lone_Wanderer: My wife and I don't pay attention to Oprah, so no. |
| 17:11.56 | vontrapp | wasn't as bad as elgs, only penetrated the foot a centimeter or two |
| 17:11.56 | vontrapp | hehe |
| 17:11.59 | Lone_Wanderer | It's all about how, just by thinking happy thoughts, we can make everything in our life better. |
| 17:12.01 | beandog_ | levi: yahp |
| 17:12.08 | beandog_ | which is a bunch of bunk. |
| 17:12.17 | Lone_Wanderer | I wouldn't have heard about it either except that there was a link about it on Reddit. |
| 17:12.17 | vontrapp | my uncle is trying to lend me the secret dvd, but he lent it to someone else already that can't find it |
| 17:12.35 | Lone_Wanderer | vontrapp: They just need to visualize themselves finding it, and it will come to them. |
| 17:12.46 | elg | hehe |
| 17:12.52 | Lone_Wanderer | Hold on, I'm going to visualize myself as the CEO of a multinational corporation. |
| 17:13.13 | Lone_Wanderer | Work?? I can't work, I'm too busy attracting wealth through positive thought! |
| 17:13.13 | beandog_ | Just as there are an extreme amount of things that can be wrong physically on the exterior with someone, there's an equal amount and degrees of problems that can be internal. |
| 17:13.15 | vontrapp | hehe |
| 17:13.28 | elg | there are truths in there, but the whole marketing thing and the extreme to which they take it is astoundingly gagful |
| 17:13.37 | beandog_ | Theyre not outwardly apparent, so its easy to ignore or forget they exist. |
| 17:13.53 | vontrapp | i think there's a degree of truth to it all, but it's more about subconciousness then "the universe bending to your thought energies" |
| 17:14.12 | elg | totally. it's about you taking and making opportunities for yourself |
| 17:14.17 | levi | Yeah, I'm sure that positive thinking can have an effect on some things, but I'm also sure it's not a magical cure-all. |
| 17:14.21 | Lone_Wanderer | elg: It's every hippy religion taken to the extreme. It promises every result you ever want with no effort. |
| 17:14.23 | elg | and the effect of positive body language on others |
| 17:14.40 | elg | it has nothing to do with quantum mechanics or your magnetic personality |
| 17:14.41 | levi | After all, the placebo effect is real. |
| 17:14.55 | elg | you can get all the same benefits of the secret by reading http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/4507 |
| 17:14.55 | beandog_ | yah |
| 17:15.05 | elg | without turning into a newage wacko |
| 17:15.10 | Lone_Wanderer | lemme guess - how to win friends and influence people? |
| 17:15.16 | elg | as a man thinketh |
| 17:15.18 | elg | much shorter |
| 17:15.22 | Lone_Wanderer | ahh |
| 17:15.33 | elg | but that's a decent book too |
| 17:15.40 | elg | if you want to deal with people |
| 17:15.42 | Lone_Wanderer | Yeah, it's good. I need to keep reading it. |
| 17:15.46 | elg | :) |
| 17:15.58 | Lone_Wanderer | Especially the "Don't insult people" chapter. |
| 17:16.26 | elg | my internal problem: yaks |
| 17:16.41 | levi | Yeah, I was surprised that How to Win Friends etc. was actually decent. |
| 17:16.41 | elg | i'm really a yak herder inside |
| 17:16.50 | brac | vontrapp associates a bad tipper, ignore me when cups dies |
| 17:16.55 | vontrapp | though in truth i'm probably pretty good at it |
| 17:17.09 | elg | doesn't mean you have to enjoy it :) |
| 17:17.19 | elg | actually, the better you are at dealing with people, the less you have to do it (if you want to not do it) |
| 17:17.22 | vontrapp | they make his wife sad |
| 17:17.38 | vontrapp | heh |
| 17:18.35 | vontrapp | elg: if only you could train the yaks to get useful things done for you |
| 17:18.38 | vontrapp | well, maybe useful things you can, but _needed_ things, that's usually harder |
| 17:19.02 | elg | yeah, they do lots of useful thing |
| 17:19.03 | elg | s |
| 17:19.08 | elg | just not what needs to be done today |
| 17:19.17 | elg | it's like herding cats, but furrier |
| 17:19.47 | Lone_Wanderer | ibot: yaks are things that turn plants into meat |
| 17:19.48 | ibot | okay, Lone_Wanderer |
| 17:20.08 | Lone_Wanderer | ibot: yaks are also herded by elg |
| 17:20.10 | ibot | okay, Lone_Wanderer |
| 17:20.17 | Lone_Wanderer | ibot: elg is also a yak herder at heart |
| 17:20.19 | ibot | ACTION sandwichmaps is also a yak herder at heart. |
| 17:20.19 | beandog_ | ~yaks |
| 17:20.21 | ibot | yaks are things that turn plants into meat, or herded by elg |
| 17:20.30 | Lone_Wanderer | ~elg |
| 17:20.31 | ibot | from memory, hans is the gdmxml guy, or having trouble with the bot, or the designer of the desert color scheme for vim, now part of the main package, or from Santa Fe, New Mexico, going to BYU and hopefully graduating soon... |
| 17:20.40 | Lone_Wanderer | ? |
| 17:20.48 | levi | A little out of date. :) |
| 17:21.39 | elg | in some ways ;) |
| 17:21.55 | elg | ibot, no elg is that freak in new mexico |
| 17:21.56 | ibot | okay, elg |
| 17:22.11 | Lone_Wanderer | ~elg |
| 17:22.12 | ibot | i heard elg is that freak in new mexico |
| 17:22.20 | Lone_Wanderer | ibot: elg is also a yak herder at heart |
| 17:22.22 | ibot | ACTION sandwichmaps is also a yak herder at heart. |
| 17:22.23 | redbeard1 | Lone_Wanderer: you win |
| 17:22.32 | Lone_Wanderer | What's a sandwichmap? |
| 17:22.43 | vontrapp | ibot, no elg is also a yak herder at heart |
| 17:22.45 | ibot | okay, vontrapp |
| 17:22.54 | Lone_Wanderer | ~elg |
| 17:22.56 | ibot | i heard elg is that freak in new mexico, or a yak herder at heart |
| 17:22.56 | vontrapp | ~leg |
| 17:22.59 | levi | Applying a function to each element of the sandwich in turn? |
| 17:22.59 | elg | that's what I want to know Lone_Wanderer |
| 17:23.03 | vontrapp | bah |
| 17:23.14 | vontrapp | i give up |
| 17:23.19 | elg | i give down |
| 17:23.53 | Lone_Wanderer | sandwichmap(eat, pastrami_on_rye) |
| 17:23.53 | vontrapp | ~leg is <action> leg ups and wets elg |
| 17:23.54 | ibot | okay, vontrapp |
| 17:23.58 | brac | ~leg is <action> allocates a big pan with veggies inside and out. |
| 17:23.59 | ibot | ...but leg is already something else... |
| 17:24.27 | vontrapp | brac: what are you doing? |
| 17:24.27 | brac | beats me |
| 17:25.21 | elg | lol |
| 17:25.27 | Lone_Wanderer | brac: whatever it is, knock it off |
| 17:25.46 | brac | whatever you say Lone_Wanderer |
| 17:26.35 | elg | now if you'll excuse me, I need to put my yaks to bed |
| 17:29.13 | vontrapp | does anyone know a fix for that darn mouse cursor animation flicker when using the nvidia drivers? |
| 17:35.15 | *** join/#utah vontrapp (n=von@72.8.105.222) |
| 17:37.19 | *** join/#utah Robdor (n=Robdor@208.187.198.179) |
| 17:39.15 | goozbach | http://digitalfury.popmartian.com/images/20070202/paranoia.jpg may not be safe for ultra-conservitives |
| 17:40.14 | beandog_ | http://xkcd.com/c42.html |
| 17:40.14 | brac | [xkcd - A webcomic of romance, sarcasm, math, and language - By Randall Munroe] |
| 17:40.22 | beandog_ | goozbach: lols |
| 17:40.23 | beandog_ | that is great. |
| 17:40.28 | beandog_ | lol |
| 17:40.48 | Lone_Wanderer | What happened January 31? |
| 17:41.00 | Lone_Wanderer | Is that the day the Boston PD blew up a traffic counter? |
| 17:41.52 | *** join/#utah zerdith (n=zerdith@66-188-62-36.dhcp.bycy.mi.charter.com) |
| 17:42.24 | beandog_ | no |
| 17:42.33 | beandog_ | it was the whole cartoon network guerilla marketing |
| 17:42.50 | beandog_ | it was before the traffic counter |
| 17:42.52 | beandog_ | go read boingboing |
| 17:42.57 | beandog_ | Jan archives |
| 17:43.27 | Lone_Wanderer | ok |
| 17:43.27 | levi | Hmm, apparently Vendetta Online switched from Lisp-based AI to Erlang-based AI for the game. |
| 17:43.27 | brac | apparently Vendetta Online switched from Lisp-based AI to Erlang-based AI for the evening |
| 17:43.27 | beandog_ | hold on Ill grab the link |
| 17:43.32 | Lone_Wanderer | brac: non sequitur much? |
| 17:43.32 | brac | beats me |
| 17:43.42 | beandog_ | http://www.boingboing.net/2007/01/31/led_art_ignites_terr.html |
| 17:43.55 | Lone_Wanderer | Ohhh, I remember that one. |
| 17:44.21 | beandog_ | that's about the funniest thing evah. |
| 17:45.18 | levi | Cool, clocky is now a real product! http://www.nandahome.com/products.clocky.html |
| 17:45.21 | brac | [nanda] |
| 17:46.52 | harleypig | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:47.01 | harleypig | s/h i/hi/ |
| 17:47.35 | Lone_Wanderer | Anyone here know about translation software? Specifically, why it doesn't work? |
| 17:48.07 | harleypig | Because you have to be really *really* good before you can be translated? |
| 17:48.16 | Lone_Wanderer | XD |
| 17:51.09 | macnewbold | Lone_Wanderer: mostly cause it is a hard problem |
| 17:53.07 | levi | Lone_Wanderer: That's one of Douglas Hofstadter's favorite topics. If you had an effective translator, you'd have an AI, basically. |
| 17:54.58 | beandog_ | mmm |
| 17:54.58 | Lone_Wanderer | Isn't there a BYU professor who's been working on making good translation algorithms? |
| 17:54.58 | levi | I remember hearing something about that. They may be decent for news stories or that sort of thing, but I'm sure you couldn't get a really good translation out of it. |
| 17:54.58 | harleypig | You know what would be a really good translation program? One that takes a novel and makes a movie out of it. |
| 17:54.58 | unum | can anyone point me to some good object orient perl documentation |
| 17:54.58 | beandog_ | heh |
| 17:54.58 | Lone_Wanderer | Oh, that'd be easy, especially if it had a "Bruckheimer" setting. |
| 17:55.02 | unum | like some how to get started stuff |
| 17:55.08 | Lone_Wanderer | You just replace any dialogue with "EXPLOSION!!!" and "SWORDFIGHT!!!!" |
| 17:55.15 | levi | unum: Have you looked through the perldocs? |
| 17:55.31 | unum | levi: not the object oriented parts |
| 17:55.32 | levi | unum: I believe there are some tutorial docs there. |
| 17:56.11 | levi | Having said that, perl's OO support, such as it is, has incredibly nasty syntax. |
| 17:56.20 | levi | 'bless' and all that. Heh. |
| 17:56.57 | Lone_Wanderer | Perl actually has a 'bless'... command (?) ? |
| 17:57.00 | unum | there are a few tutorial on it there, thanks |
| 17:57.01 | levi | But it is flexible, at least. If you ask how to do OO in perl, one must answer 'What KIND of OO?' |
| 17:57.05 | levi | Lone_Wanderer: Yes. |
| 17:57.10 | Lone_Wanderer | That's awesome. |
| 17:57.24 | unum | I have certian types of file that I have to access a lot |
| 17:57.27 | levi | Lone_Wanderer: It's part of the object creation process. |
| 17:57.29 | unum | with different programs |
| 17:57.54 | unum | so I want to create some classes to handle the data in those files |
| 17:58.02 | Lone_Wanderer | What about "sanctify", "smite", and "exorcise"? |
| 17:58.10 | levi | Anyway, I write as little perl as I can get away with, so my most useful information for you is that there are some introductory materials in the perldocs. |
| 17:58.10 | unum | levi: you're not the levi that used to work at venture data are you? |
| 17:58.25 | unum | levi: that's what I needed |
| 17:58.37 | levi | unum: Nope, I have no recollection of working at venture data. |
| 17:59.01 | levi | I am dismayed to hear that there is another Levi working in Utah in the computer field. |
| 17:59.13 | harleypig | unum: OO in perl is very simple, once you grasp the paradigm. |
| 17:59.48 | unum | levi: he did some perl programming here. he may have already written some of these classes... |
| 17:59.55 | Lone_Wanderer | OO in perl is very simple, once you can wrap your head around the big picture. |
| 17:59.59 | brac | OO in perl run by TimRiker |
| 18:00.31 | Lone_Wanderer | once you get the hang of it / once you grasp the basics / once you learn to think the Perl OO way |
| 18:01.42 | goozbach | unum: try the perlboot |
| 18:01.47 | goozbach | perldoc perboot |
| 18:02.00 | goozbach | is the command that'll give you the beginners look |
| 18:02.43 | goozbach | wait a second!? |
| 18:02.55 | harleypig | and perltoot as well |
| 18:03.07 | goozbach | TimRiker: have you written an object oriented perl book? |
| 18:03.43 | goozbach | or am I imagining brac suddenly actually having something WORTHWHILE to say |
| 18:03.44 | goozbach | ? |
| 18:04.38 | levi | Heh, Jonathan Coulton's version of Baby Got Back. |
| 18:14.16 | *** join/#utah scottjad (i=scott@crackaddict.com) |
| 18:16.41 | tensai | levi: that's a great one |
| 18:16.54 | scottjad | anyone around provo really familiar with postfix, samba, and ldap on debian and looking for part-time work? |
| 18:17.18 | Lone_Wanderer | scottjad: best bet is to join, and post to, the plug list. You'll hit a much wider audience. |
| 18:28.49 | *** join/#utah Newsome (n=sorenson@adsl-68-22-220-206.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net) |
| 18:29.20 | harleypig | So who else has a Nintendo DS Lite? |
| 18:30.00 | harleypig | Yeah ... I'm wondering if we could get more people to join us. |
| 18:30.30 | harleypig | It'd be fun to have a full race and disrupt a different restaurant every week. |
| 18:30.45 | Lone_Wanderer | What's a DS Lite? |
| 18:31.27 | redbeard1 | Lone_Wanderer: it's a handheld nintendo |
| 18:31.27 | levi | A handheld game machine. |
| 18:31.45 | Lone_Wanderer | Can you play Metroid on it? |
| 18:35.04 | TimRiker | goozbach: huh? no books here. |
| 18:37.29 | findlay | schooltime! |
| 18:42.25 | *** join/#utah fcodiaz (n=fdiaz@64.58.232.4) |
| 18:43.35 | Jayce^ | Lone_Wanderer, metroid hunters |
| 18:50.04 | goozbach | TimRiker: nevermind |
| 18:50.22 | goozbach | just a random brac comment made it sound like it |
| 18:55.37 | harleypig | Lone_Wanderer: Yes, you can play some version of Metroid. |
| 18:55.48 | harleypig | Lone_Wanderer: One of our co-workers loves it for that reason. |
| 18:58.07 | Lone_Wanderer | In that case, I must own one. |
| 19:12.26 | *** join/#utah vontrapp (n=von@71.35.254.49) |
| 19:38.51 | brac | Lone_Wanderer googles "distro comparison" and other such stuff |
| 19:39.18 | goozbach | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:39.27 | goozbach | http://cream.sourceforge.net/home.html |
| 19:39.28 | brac | [Cream :: a modern configuration of the Vim text editor] |
| 19:42.34 | vontrapp | why for windows gvim? |
| 19:43.06 | beandog_ | vi is from 1976? |
| 19:43.07 | beandog_ | yeeks. |
| 19:44.52 | levi | Mmm, nice bike ride. |
| 19:45.15 | vontrapp | up the hill to campus |
| 19:46.10 | goozbach | this is for my cohrts who need to edit linux config files, which are stored in a bzr archive |
| 19:46.48 | goozbach | and they aren't exactly "vim material" |
| 19:47.05 | goozbach | but notepad/wordpad keeps fouling up the files |
| 19:47.19 | levi | Do I smell some elitism here? ;) |
| 19:47.33 | goozbach | and ssh'ing into the machine and running nano locally is getting troublesome |
| 19:47.50 | goozbach | pot:kettle:black :) |
| 19:48.42 | goozbach | I'm trying to make it easier for this guy to edit things, he keeps like ~45 copies of the same file around so he "can go back to a previous version of the config" |
| 19:48.53 | levi | Heh. |
| 19:49.07 | levi | Sometimes those people just haven't been introduced to the right tools yet. |
| 19:49.33 | levi | I worked with guys who edited everything with pico, and all it took was a little vim tutorial to get them going in the right direction. |
| 19:49.46 | goozbach | levi: hence the need for an "introductiory vim" on windows |
| 19:49.51 | goozbach | levi: I've tried that |
| 19:50.09 | goozbach | "old dog, new tricks" problem |
| 19:51.07 | levi | Here's where I rode today: http://www.bikely.com/maps/bike-path/Chevron-climb |
| 19:51.33 | levi | goozbach: Yeah. The old dog I showed did pick it up, though. I guess it depends on the person. |
| 19:52.28 | goozbach | he refuses to learn |
| 19:52.34 | redbeard1 | goozbach: i just walked into this conversation, but hasn't this guy ever heard of cvs, et al? |
| 19:52.50 | goozbach | it's one thing to teach an old dog who's willing to learn, quite another to teach one which is not |
| 19:52.54 | goozbach | redbeard1: NO |
| 19:53.04 | goozbach | he's not done anything without a clicky interface |
| 19:53.21 | redbeard1 | doesn't M$ have their own version of cvs? |
| 19:53.25 | *** join/#utah pmcnabb (n=peter@otherlab.cs.byu.edu) |
| 19:53.26 | redbeard1 | with a clicky interface? |
| 19:53.30 | goozbach | I'm treating it as an engineering problem |
| 19:53.51 | goozbach | redbeard1: no idea, even if it did, it wouldn't work with my current setups |
| 19:54.06 | goozbach | he's the guy who's creating the dialing plans for our asterisk server |
| 19:54.22 | goozbach | and it's a "we have to include $NAME" thing |
| 19:54.37 | goozbach | if I was doing it, the project would have never gotten behind schedule |
| 19:55.54 | goozbach | I'm getting close to having a cool "click to edit" solution done |
| 19:56.00 | goozbach | cream is just a part of that |
| 19:57.31 | wps | how do I specify which port to use when testing a connection with telnet (I do not see it in the man page) |
| 19:58.38 | goozbach | the big step is making it automatically commit it to the bzr repo |
| 19:58.51 | goozbach | wps: telnet <host> <port> |
| 19:59.08 | wps | thanks |
| 19:59.09 | goozbach | eg. to test http do this: telnet localhost 80 |
| 20:04.24 | *** join/#utah jNb3k (n=jNb3k@c-24-10-178-17.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 20:05.52 | rsimpkins | redbeard1: Hi there. Do you used linkedin at all? |
| 20:06.04 | redbeard1 | rsimpkins: nope |
| 20:10.27 | redbeard1 | can't say i ever got into the whole social networking thing |
| 20:12.50 | rsimpkins | Neither did I until recently, then I discovered it was a convienient way to keep a list of contacts. |
| 20:13.06 | rsimpkins | I was surprised by how many local guys are in there. |
| 20:18.13 | Jayce^ | rsimpkins, christer edwards is doing the presentation this month |
| 20:18.16 | Jayce^ | has he gotten with you |
| 20:18.20 | *** join/#utah ti`ocpi (n=tiocpi@143-106.dynamicpool.suu.edu) |
| 20:20.12 | rsimpkins | Jayce^: not yet |
| 20:20.32 | redbeard1 | Jayce^, what is he doing it on? |
| 20:21.16 | Jayce^ | dont' have the full details.. |
| 20:24.43 | graphyx | anyone have any idea what would be causing overrun errors on an intel multimode gigabit fiber nic? |
| 20:24.59 | harleypig | too much data? It's slopping over the sides? |
| 20:25.23 | graphyx | its a fiber link, not a troff!! |
| 20:25.45 | harleypig | Too much light then ... |
| 20:26.02 | harleypig | Someone's shining a high powered flashlight into their port. |
| 20:26.46 | goozbach | turn the back of the computer away from the sun |
| 20:27.10 | goozbach | or put up a big-thick cardboard square |
| 20:30.21 | jsmith | graphyx: Best guess? Poorly written driver |
| 20:30.33 | graphyx | Really? |
| 20:30.44 | graphyx | here is the thing thou |
| 20:30.56 | graphyx | these is occuring on an ids |
| 20:31.11 | graphyx | we have 2 dual mm gig fiber cards in it |
| 20:31.44 | graphyx | the overrun/error is occuring on 1 interface from each NIC but not on the other |
| 20:31.55 | graphyx | of the same NIC |
| 20:32.02 | brac | of the command |
| 20:32.26 | jsmith | Bad fiber? |
| 20:32.45 | graphyx | That is one thing that we want to look at |
| 20:33.00 | graphyx | only 8% of the packets cause the error/overrun |
| 20:33.13 | graphyx | but we will try new fiber |
| 20:33.18 | graphyx | its a short run |
| 20:33.49 | jsmith | Is it the same interface on each of the NICs? |
| 20:33.56 | brac | Is it is a good blog, let me try on his check with sargun-screen |
| 20:34.10 | jsmith | Mmmmn.... multimode fiber... |
| 20:34.29 | jsmith | Just like grandma used to cook... |
| 20:36.26 | jsmith | tensai: What, already have enough fiber in your diet? |
| 20:39.39 | goozbach | I had some AWESOME lasagna last night |
| 20:39.48 | goozbach | it had multiple modes of fiber |
| 20:39.52 | goozbach | it was tasty |
| 20:40.08 | harleypig | Where do you find Awesome around here? I can't find it anywhere? |
| 20:41.01 | jsmith | goozbach: As opposed to the prune juice you drank this morning, which was single-mode fiber |
| 20:41.18 | harleypig | Was that to flush out your network? |
| 20:45.01 | goozbach | harleypig: you've never hunted the awesaback? |
| 20:45.10 | goozbach | they have great meat |
| 20:45.29 | goozbach | and like deer meat is call vennison, awesaback meat is called awesome |
| 20:45.42 | goozbach | harleypig: they're native to Georgia |
| 20:48.26 | Lone_Wanderer | Funny, I thought those were called snipes. |
| 20:48.49 | Lone_Wanderer | And I was under the impression that they ranged as far north of my home state, Minnesota. |
| 20:49.01 | *** join/#utah ^Migs^ (n=migs@205.122.50.69) |
| 20:49.07 | Lone_Wanderer | I never caught one of the sneaky things though. I used to wait by snipe trails for HOURS. |
| 20:49.43 | Lone_Wanderer | Then finally I'd come back to camp and everyone else had already caught and eaten theirs. |
| 20:49.44 | jsmith | Lone_Wanderer: Yeah, but in Wyoming we had jackelopes... |
| 20:50.27 | harleypig | What about basseloons? |
| 20:50.29 | Lone_Wanderer | ?? |
| 20:50.29 | UtahBot | ??[x]: Usage: ?? <word> [> nick] |
| 20:50.32 | Lone_Wanderer | Jackelopes aren't real. |
| 20:51.06 | Lone_Wanderer | What's a basseloon? |
| 20:55.35 | tene | ~basseloon |
| 20:55.42 | *** join/#utah bonez39 (n=bonez@drjones.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 20:56.07 | tene | ibot: basseloon is HAY GUYZ LOOK IM FLYIN!!! |
| 20:56.09 | ibot | tene: okay |
| 20:56.28 | tene | ibot: no, basseloon is <reply> HAY GUYZ LOOK IM FLYIN!!! |
| 20:56.29 | ibot | tene: okay |
| 21:04.35 | harleypig | Woops ... it's a basselope, not a basseloon |
| 21:16.47 | bonez39 | what room would be appropriate for a printing question, such as...why will a networked laser printer print windows jobs completely, even if several pages, but all linux jobs require manual intervention in Form Feed.. to eject each page. ? |
| 21:17.25 | tene | bonez39: perhaps #cups ? |
| 21:18.26 | bonez39 | tene, my brain needs a rest....thanks |
| 21:18.59 | tene | np |
| 21:20.42 | QBFreak | itsatene! |
| 21:21.30 | tene | Cubey! |
| 21:26.04 | *** join/#utah neybar (n=jalance@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 21:30.24 | graphyx | must be catching, what is the name of the service that you use as a third party for selling stuff on ebay? To make sure that you get the money/stuff fairly? |
| 21:32.15 | goozbach | fairstuff.com? |
| 21:32.40 | graphyx | what is the name of that class of service? |
| 21:33.02 | goozbach | escrow |
| 21:33.02 | TimRiker | theclassofservicethatgetsyourstufffairly ? |
| 21:33.18 | goozbach | I thought you were being clever |
| 21:33.29 | goozbach | now I understand it's a legit question |
| 21:33.32 | graphyx | escrow |
| 21:33.33 | goozbach | escrow service |
| 21:33.37 | graphyx | that is the word |
| 21:33.38 | tene | scarecrow |
| 21:33.39 | graphyx | thankl |
| 21:33.40 | goozbach | paypal.com |
| 21:33.50 | graphyx | paypal isn't an escrow. |
| 21:33.56 | graphyx | they are a money mover |
| 21:34.04 | goozbach | they can do escrow |
| 21:34.28 | goozbach | escrow services by design are money movers as well |
| 21:34.37 | graphyx | That is true |
| 21:35.07 | goozbach | goods/money sent to escrow, both parties happy, escrow releases goods/money |
| 21:35.23 | graphyx | paypal is a fake escrow service that tries to present the front of an escrow service without the actual liability of making sure the merchandise gets there |
| 21:35.50 | goozbach | ok point taken |
| 21:35.55 | goozbach | but whatever |
| 21:36.15 | graphyx | sure |
| 21:36.19 | graphyx | I get what you mean |
| 21:44.28 | redbeard1 | hey, employee pricing, that's awesome! |
| 21:45.12 | harleypig | graphyx: world bank |
| 21:45.36 | graphyx | redbeard1: for what? |
| 21:45.56 | harleypig | Sory, Royal Bank of Scotland, for ebay |
| 21:46.18 | harleypig | graphyx: Employee pricing for Linux |
| 21:46.47 | graphyx | oh |
| 21:47.01 | graphyx | didn't read the sign in notice |
| 21:49.54 | *** join/#utah Lone_Wanderer (n=chatzill@cg.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 21:52.11 | mheath | Wow. First day of class was a breeze. |
| 21:52.29 | mheath | Still have to go back in a bit for more of my mandatory study hours, of course. |
| 21:53.37 | Lone_Wanderer | mandatory study hours? |
| 22:01.32 | *** join/#utah Migs (n=migs@205.122.50.69) |
| 22:02.10 | ^Migs^ | how do you see how much disk space a directory and all its subdirectories is taking up, from the command line? |
| 22:02.31 | harleypig | ^Migs^: du -hs . |
| 22:02.35 | harleypig | will show you a total |
| 22:02.51 | harleypig | and du -h . will break it down by directory. |
| 22:03.25 | Lone_Wanderer | I'd have thought that duh -s? :p |
| 22:03.41 | harleypig | heh |
| 22:05.35 | Lone_Wanderer | There. My shell now has a "duh" command. |
| 22:06.18 | ^Migs^ | cool, thanks |
| 22:07.25 | ^Migs^ | how do I stop the "duh" command from listing every single file, and just output a total? |
| 22:07.41 | ^Migs^ | oh, nm |
| 22:08.07 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 22:09.24 | ^Migs^ | wtf, three instances of Gallery 2 takes up 2 GB? |
| 22:09.28 | ^Migs^ | that doesn't seem right |
| 22:11.12 | emcnabb | ^Migs^: it doesn't |
| 22:11.49 | ^Migs^ | oh, that includes the pictures, duh |
| 22:11.55 | ^Migs^ | I mean, du -h |
| 22:12.17 | Lone_Wanderer | Oh good grief. How can it be this hard to install fortune on a mac? |
| 22:12.35 | harleypig | Cause mac |
| 22:12.39 | harleypig | 's already cost a fortune? |
| 22:13.02 | harleypig | You break it you buy it! |
| 22:13.15 | elg | Lone_Wanderer: this hard: "sudo port install fortune" |
| 22:13.24 | harleypig | elg: You have to push the door open? |
| 22:13.28 | Lone_Wanderer | A really cute girl once walked up to me in a parking lot and said "You dropped your smile." |
| 22:13.34 | elg | not quite that obvious harleypig |
| 22:13.55 | Lone_Wanderer | I didn't say anything back, I was too scared :( |
| 22:13.57 | elg | it is this: putting butter on your fingers makes working with wet doughs much easier, and tastier |
| 22:14.02 | harleypig | Geek! |
| 22:14.03 | elg | Lone_Wanderer: dang. |
| 22:14.16 | Lone_Wanderer | I did smile though. |
| 22:14.18 | harleypig | elg: yeah |
| 22:14.32 | harleypig | and what was the oviou ... oh |
| 22:14.42 | harleypig | s/oviou/obviou/ |
| 22:15.12 | elg | Lone_Wanderer: you should have said "thanks! I've been wondering where it got to. Now I know" |
| 22:15.22 | Lone_Wanderer | I should have. |
| 22:15.28 | elg | or something more cliche: "Thanks! I've been wondering where you've been all my life" |
| 22:15.32 | elg | ~rimshot |
| 22:15.33 | ibot | ch-ch-chhh |
| 22:15.33 | Lone_Wanderer | I have thought of many things that I *should* have said between now and then |
| 22:15.51 | harleypig | "Thanks. Would you help me put it back on?" |
| 22:16.09 | Lone_Wanderer | Ohhh, best option yet. |
| 22:16.12 | elg | "thanks. harleypig knocked it off" |
| 22:16.26 | harleypig | Make the bad man stop! |
| 22:17.04 | levi | elg: I've used spray oil to work with wet dough, but the butter sounds tastier. |
| 22:17.13 | elg | "I didn't know how to smile until I saw you" |
| 22:17.15 | levi | elg: Spray oil on my hands, that is. |
| 22:17.24 | elg | yeah, I've used olive oil on my hands before |
| 22:17.36 | elg | but there was butter just sitting there and it hit me |
| 22:18.04 | levi | Must have made a mess when it hit! ;) |
| 22:18.19 | elg | "Hey, you dropped your smile in the butter" |
| 22:18.24 | brac | you dropped your smile in the relationship of astroparticle physics |
| 22:19.13 | Lone_Wanderer | I want a brac for my apartment that listens to what people say and has speech recognition |
| 22:19.22 | Lone_Wanderer | and speakers |
| 22:19.45 | Lone_Wanderer | so that when I'm talking to people it'll just randomly say stuff, only it'll inevitably be messed up because it won't hear things clearly |
| 22:20.22 | Lone_Wanderer | and because speech recognition currently sucks even when you're speaking clearly and directly into a microphone |
| 22:21.15 | elg | -chat about speech recognition |
| 22:21.15 | brac | speech recognition in notepad |
| 22:22.51 | Lone_Wanderer | ~coffeetalk |
| 22:22.59 | Lone_Wanderer | ~coffetalk |
| 22:23.01 | Lone_Wanderer | meh |
| 22:23.02 | harleypig | Lone_Wanderer: But that very fact will make things much more interesting. |
| 22:23.39 | harleypig | Consider. You're doing NCMO on the couch during a movie and brac pops off with "You're much better than the other girls!" |
| 22:23.45 | Lone_Wanderer | harleypig: exactly. also it lends plausible deniability to anyone who knows how it works. Girlfriend: "When did you say THAT?" |
| 22:23.49 | Lone_Wanderer | exactly! |
| 22:24.21 | Lone_Wanderer | I could train brac with hours and hours of terrible romance flicks. |
| 22:24.28 | Lone_Wanderer | Just let them play all day while I'm at work. |
| 22:24.31 | harleypig | AND action flicks. |
| 22:24.37 | harleypig | bad action flicks. |
| 22:24.42 | harleypig | and 2x4 theatre. |
| 22:24.56 | harleypig | a little bit of 50s horror here and there should make things interesting too. |
| 22:24.59 | redbeard1 | isn't elg a norwegian word or something? |
| 22:25.50 | tensai | means moose, I think |
| 22:25.58 | redbeard1 | http://thomas.apestaart.org/log/?p=448 |
| 22:26.51 | Lone_Wanderer | -chat about genetic algorithms |
| 22:26.52 | brac | genetic algorithms |
| 22:27.00 | Lone_Wanderer | -chat about brac sucks |
| 22:27.01 | brac | brac sucks |
| 22:27.12 | tene | -chat about only when |
| 22:27.12 | brac | only when we're holding various items. |
| 22:27.18 | tene | -chat about when spoken |
| 22:27.18 | brac | when spoken to" |
| 22:27.23 | Lone_Wanderer | -chat about if you |
| 22:27.23 | brac | if you already have it? :) |
| 22:27.38 | Lone_Wanderer | -chat about I love |
| 22:27.38 | brac | I love it when stuff burns |
| 22:27.53 | jsmith | brac: So do I! |
| 22:28.04 | harleypig | wow ... is that limit command from a bash shell? |
| 22:31.22 | harleypig | Is () the same as $() I wonder... |
| 22:32.06 | tensai | no |
| 22:32.10 | harleypig | ARgghh ... this is gonna bother me. |
| 22:32.26 | harleypig | Yeah, it doesn't look like it. |
| 22:32.51 | tensai | sub colon { colon | colon & } ; colon |
| 22:32.57 | tensai | there's a more perl-esque version |
| 22:33.21 | mheath | <Lone_Wanderer> mandatory study hours? |
| 22:33.22 | mheath | Yes |
| 22:33.39 | mheath | Right now I'm on 15-2's |
| 22:33.53 | mheath | I have to spend 2 hours a day studying, Sunday - Thursday |
| 22:33.55 | Lone_Wanderer | So if you can learn the stuff in one hour, you still have to spend the mandatory study time reviewing stuff you already know? |
| 22:34.03 | Lone_Wanderer | Oh wait. Navy. Never mind. |
| 22:34.08 | mheath | And I also have to spend a total of 15 hours a week studying |
| 22:34.13 | mheath | Lone_Wanderer, At first, yes |
| 22:34.21 | harleypig | Yeah. Squids're even dumber than Leathernecks! |
| 22:34.38 | mheath | Lone_Wanderer, because they start off _easy_. |
| 22:34.43 | Lone_Wanderer | Don't let you manage your time on your own. That would be contrary to The Military Way. |
| 22:35.02 | mheath | My math today was significant digits, rounding, scientifiy notation, and basic calculator operating |
| 22:35.07 | mheath | They start off _simple_ |
| 22:35.31 | Lone_Wanderer | That's not really the point. |
| 22:35.38 | mheath | And I don't know what it is about Nukes, but 75% of us seem to be from the "had an easy time in highschool, so we started to slack and procrastinate" group |
| 22:35.50 | mheath | Like me. Took the tests and did well, never did any of the homework |
| 22:36.13 | mheath | If they don't force us into studying, when stuff starts to get hard, we'll be lost before we realize it. |
| 22:36.18 | tene | Hmm. Military is good at teaching you to get control of that habit? |
| 22:36.56 | tene | Maybe I should try military. |
| 22:36.56 | Lone_Wanderer | I think that mandatory study time is teaching them to get control of the habit. |
| 22:36.56 | brac | I think Java is a good one |
| 22:36.56 | harleypig | err ... I don't know if I like the idea of my brother posted to a ship where the nuclear engineer is a procrastinator |
| 22:37.00 | mheath | Lone_Wanderer, exactly |
| 22:37.03 | mheath | Thats only at first |
| 22:37.21 | mheath | If we demonstrate good time management and do well on our tests, that goes down. |
| 22:37.33 | goozbach | YAY! |
| 22:37.37 | harleypig | Lone_Wanderer, mheath: phfft -- It's the next step in controlling impressionable young cannon fodder. |
| 22:37.43 | mheath | goozbach, hostings going to have to wait |
| 22:37.56 | goozbach | key-based bzr patching from a Windows machine |
| 22:38.45 | Jayce^ | goozbach, when you out here this summer? |
| 22:38.49 | mheath | harleypig, that procrastination habbit is broken long before nukes hit the fleet |
| 22:38.50 | Jayce^ | gotta make sure you get in a game.. |
| 22:38.51 | mheath | And keep in mind |
| 22:39.26 | mheath | The US Navy has the best track record of any agency with nuclear technology |
| 22:39.49 | harleypig | Yeah, but the US Navy uses Windows to automate their vessels. |
| 22:40.00 | mheath | Not entirely true |
| 22:40.02 | goozbach | Jayce^: give me a list of games you're playing |
| 22:40.06 | mheath | USN uses a lot of Linux technology. |
| 22:40.13 | goozbach | I'll schedule a trip during |
| 22:40.32 | Jayce^ | you want big scenario, or just general gaming? |
| 22:40.35 | Jayce^ | the summer is full :) |
| 22:40.35 | harleypig | mheath: Hopefully SELinux |
| 22:40.43 | harleypig | OSCon! |
| 22:40.56 | harleypig | Negative Ghost Rider, the pattern is full! |
| 22:41.24 | goozbach | Jayce^: yes |
| 22:41.35 | Lone_Wanderer | Random question. How can I find a bunch of more or less decent artists, prefferably with a forum so I can ask the all a question? |
| 22:41.39 | goozbach | scenario |
| 22:41.43 | Jayce^ | well, in a month or so we'll have every wednesday night practice.. |
| 22:41.47 | Lone_Wanderer | I seem to recall a web site that deals with art... stuff. But I can't recall its name. |
| 22:41.53 | Jayce^ | you could plan on smugglers run, or aliens this year |
| 22:41.54 | goozbach | Lone_Wanderer: devianart |
| 22:42.01 | Lone_Wanderer | ahh, that's the one. |
| 22:42.31 | Jayce^ | goozbach, so, instead of a q-bow, you should get a tac-9 |
| 22:42.36 | levi | Heh, sweet. The author of Programming From the Ground Up put some metaprogramming tutorials in Scheme up on IBM developerWorks. |
| 22:42.47 | mheath | harleypig, One of my RDCs in boot camp was an IT (one of the guys that maintain computers in the Navy) and I talked to him a bit about Linu |
| 22:42.49 | harleypig | C'mon! We're all going to die, die standing up! |
| 22:42.49 | mheath | *Linux |
| 22:42.50 | Lone_Wanderer | mheath: How much trouble would you get in if you helped Columbians smuggle drugs into the country? 'Cause I bet you could fit a ton of really primo stuff into the core on your ship. |
| 22:42.58 | mheath | Haha. |
| 22:43.13 | Jayce^ | glowing hash... |
| 22:43.13 | mheath | My textbooks look really scary |
| 22:43.19 | Lone_Wanderer | I mean, just take out a single fuel rod, drop it in the ocean, and replace it with coke. |
| 22:43.28 | Jayce^ | or you could make some shrooms like the digitalblasphemey ones.. |
| 22:43.32 | harleypig | Super charged snort! |
| 22:43.40 | Lone_Wanderer | Jayce^: Nobody would live long enough to get cancer from it, so who cares? |
| 22:43.55 | mheath | Lone_Wanderer, I'm going to be in an SSBN |
| 22:43.59 | jsmith | elg: I have a storage unit full of books... |
| 22:44.01 | mheath | Can't exactly open the hatch... |
| 22:44.07 | brac | Can't exactly open the file libdvd.css this is fun |
| 22:44.09 | elg | hehe |
| 22:44.12 | harleypig | mheath: SuperSonicBullshitNinja? |
| 22:44.25 | mheath | Something like that. :P |
| 22:44.26 | mheath | Haha |
| 22:44.38 | Lone_Wanderer | mheath: Well you've got a duffel bag, right? Surely you could just pick something up in port one day and offload it the next time you're home. |
| 22:44.45 | Lone_Wanderer | And it's the US Navy, who's going to suspect you? |
| 22:45.20 | Lone_Wanderer | You should totally do it. |
| 22:45.53 | *** join/#utah mrpull- (n=misterpu@mail.pollmann.us) |
| 22:46.32 | goozbach | Jayce^: is that a specops marker? |
| 22:46.40 | Jayce^ | no, tiberius.. |
| 22:46.46 | elg | php freaks, if I do $_POST['foo'] and there's no input foo, will it be "" or null or what? |
| 22:46.46 | Jayce^ | the tac 8 with rifle mods |
| 22:47.00 | Lone_Wanderer | just use isset() |
| 22:47.17 | elg | i want to know if I can not use isset() |
| 22:47.22 | Lone_Wanderer | It'll generate a warning, but accessing it will create it implicitly |
| 22:47.25 | Lone_Wanderer | You can. |
| 22:47.25 | brac | It'll generate a parse error on elg's array. :-) |
| 22:47.38 | Lone_Wanderer | I forget what it'll be set to though, and you'll be opening yourself up to subtle errors. |
| 22:47.54 | elg | ok, so it's not just default to "" or something |
| 22:47.58 | Lone_Wanderer | brac can generate a parse error :p |
| 22:48.09 | Lone_Wanderer | It does default to something, but I don't recall what off the top of my head. |
| 22:48.27 | Lone_Wanderer | PHP: Enabling subtle bugs since 19__. |
| 22:48.43 | elg | can I do $foo = $_POST['foo'] || "" |
| 22:48.46 | elg | or something like that? |
| 22:49.02 | harleypig | "Far better it is to dare mighty things, than to take rank with those poor, timid spirits who know neither victory nor defeat." - Teddy Roosevelt |
| 22:49.09 | Lone_Wanderer | You could do that but you don't want to, because || evaluates the statement for truth |
| 22:49.39 | Lone_Wanderer | And the user could potentially pass in something that evaluated to false. |
| 22:50.25 | Lone_Wanderer | s/boring/safe |
| 22:50.27 | Lone_Wanderer | ;) |
| 22:52.27 | elg | (boring == safe) && PHP |
| 22:54.02 | goozbach | Jayce^: I'll probally be getting the tac-9 pro |
| 22:54.08 | goozbach | s/pro/elite/ |
| 22:54.19 | goozbach | bah |
| 22:54.22 | goozbach | elite |
| 22:54.27 | goozbach | scope and everything |
| 22:54.32 | goozbach | that's a pimp marker |
| 22:54.35 | Lone_Wanderer | tac-9 elite? |
| 22:54.40 | Lone_Wanderer | ohhh, paintball gun? |
| 22:54.45 | Lone_Wanderer | why are they called markers? |
| 22:54.54 | goozbach | http://www.usmilitarygear.com/proddetail.php?prod=T9-SNELITE |
| 22:54.55 | brac | [Military Paintball - Armotech, WarSensor, Ariakon, We are the REAL Woodsball Store] |
| 22:55.20 | Lone_Wanderer | Where's the FAKE Woodsball Store? |
| 22:56.06 | goozbach | I wonder how quick it is to switch from mag to hopper? |
| 22:56.48 | goozbach | carry a remote, use mags to snipe, when things get heavy pop on a spare hopper and fight your way out |
| 22:58.50 | Jayce^ | as the tac-8 it is an amazing pistol |
| 22:59.13 | Jayce^ | maybe in a few months I'll sell my Ego and get one of those |
| 23:00.33 | goozbach | for what I was going to spend on the q-bow I could get that AND a pistol |
| 23:00.52 | goozbach | a half-dozen magazines, and a remote system |
| 23:01.12 | elg | there was something in DOS days (I think it came with doskeys or something) that was called no or not |
| 23:01.21 | elg | no foo.txt rm -f * |
| 23:01.24 | elg | for example |
| 23:01.35 | elg | is there any simple way to do this in unix? I've always wondered |
| 23:01.52 | elg | the simplest thing I can think of is maybe a combination of ls, grep, and xargs |
| 23:02.37 | mheath | goozbach, I'm droppping that check in the mail tonight; pickup isn't until tomorrow though. |
| 23:04.55 | mheath | Heh |
| 23:05.06 | mheath | Complete with a Rectruit Training Command envelope |
| 23:05.12 | mheath | Have way too any of those left over :P |
| 23:10.58 | findlay | who put this box of hardware on my desk? |
| 23:11.22 | findlay | what should I do with it Lone_Wanderer? |
| 23:11.35 | Lone_Wanderer | I don't care, it's yours now. |
| 23:11.39 | Lone_Wanderer | ebay it. |
| 23:11.40 | findlay | great |
| 23:12.27 | tensai | findlay: did you find the box of twenties I left on your door step? it's drug money but you can have it. |
| 23:12.50 | findlay | tensai: no, you'll have to do it again |
| 23:14.46 | mheath | Wow |
| 23:14.57 | mheath | Some of google earth / maps data is really out of date |
| 23:15.06 | mheath | Like.....has to be 10+ years out of date |
| 23:15.15 | Lone_Wanderer | How can you tell? |
| 23:15.52 | mheath | Lone_Wanderer, Shows a road going right through where I'm sitting right now |
| 23:15.56 | brac | Shows a GUI for the result. |
| 23:16.02 | mheath | A road that hasn't been here for 10 years. |
| 23:16.06 | Lone_Wanderer | heh, cool |
| 23:16.13 | mheath | When did brac get so annoying? |
| 23:16.21 | Lone_Wanderer | Always has been. |
| 23:16.29 | Lone_Wanderer | He just knows more now. |
| 23:17.08 | tene | brac: chat about bots should only speak when spoken to |
| 23:17.09 | brac | incorrect usage, ask for help using 'brac: help chat' |
| 23:17.25 | tensai | -chat about bots should |
| 23:17.26 | brac | bots should only concern itself with my Fuji S5200 |
| 23:17.30 | Lone_Wanderer | -chat about shut up |
| 23:17.31 | brac | shut up and chnage the hardcoding |
| 23:17.37 | mheath | Turn on roads in google earth near 32 degrees 57 minutes 57.20 seconds N, 79 degrees 58 minutes 05.55 seconds W |
| 23:18.14 | mheath | Those roads haven't been here since NNPTC was constructed in the 90's. |
| 23:19.45 | *** join/#utah nick125_lappy (n=nick@atarack/staff/nick125) |
| 23:21.23 | elg | Lone_Wanderer: then if $foo = "";, is isset($foo) true or false? |
| 23:22.58 | levi | elg: What's that in response to? |
| 23:23.48 | elg | php help |
| 23:24.39 | Lone_Wanderer | elg: It depends. If $foo is unset, it will be blank or null or something like that (I forget), but if it's set and equal to the empty string, it will also be equal to "". |
| 23:24.53 | Lone_Wanderer | Err... that last bit is obvious. I'm just saying that you can't always tell. |
| 23:25.12 | Lone_Wanderer | Except with ===. Which is a crazy operator designed to deal with this kind of ambiguity. |
| 23:25.41 | Lone_Wanderer | http://us2.php.net/isset has more |
| 23:26.05 | Lone_Wanderer | and http://us2.php.net/manual/en/types.comparisons.php as well |
| 23:26.22 | levi | Yuck. |
| 23:26.28 | Lone_Wanderer | Indeed. |
| 23:26.44 | Lone_Wanderer | Equality in a language as loosely typed as PHP is icky. |
| 23:27.19 | tensai | javascript has an === operator for the same reason |
| 23:27.53 | levi | It doesn't have to be icky, but the C-like syntax tends to make things difficult. |
| 23:28.34 | levi | It makes sense to have multiple equality predicates for testing for different kinds of equality. Trying to make reasonable symbols for all of them is what's icky. |
| 23:28.47 | *** join/#utah phinux (n=phinux@atropine.cs.byu.edu) |
| 23:28.50 | elg | Lone_Wanderer: well, add(..., $foo="") { ...; $something['foo'] = $foo; } |
| 23:29.03 | elg | so i should not check with isset, but with ===? |
| 23:29.09 | Lone_Wanderer | elg: can you pastebin it for me? |
| 23:29.38 | Lone_Wanderer | elg: No, you should just use isset :p |
| 23:30.06 | Lone_Wanderer | also, join #uphpu |
| 23:31.17 | levi | Lone_Wanderer: Casting unset variables to empty strings or whatever is what's really nasty, though. |
| 23:31.36 | Lone_Wanderer | levi: nod |
| 23:31.42 | elg | well, is "" set or not? |
| 23:32.31 | mheath | ibot: classify $foo is <action> places a NOFORN stamp on $foo's head |
| 23:32.41 | ibot | okay, mheath |
| 23:32.41 | Lone_Wanderer | elg: the problem is that even if $foo isn't set, evaluating it can cause it to become set. Which is strange and unpredictable. |
| 23:32.41 | mheath | ~classify elg |
| 23:32.56 | mheath | ~classify elg |
| 23:33.02 | *** part/#utah jnielsen (i=jn@c-76-23-109-98.hsd1.sc.comcast.net) |
| 23:33.19 | elg | Lone_Wanderer: on #uphpu now |
| 23:33.23 | Lone_Wanderer | ~lart mheath for using Navy slang. |
| 23:33.33 | mheath | Thats government slang :P |
| 23:33.43 | mheath | NOFORN is just a classification level |
| 23:33.48 | Lone_Wanderer | I stand nitpick... corrected. |
| 23:33.58 | mheath | like CONFIDENTIAL, SECRET, TOP SECRET |
| 23:41.09 | mheath | NOFORN is the lowest level of classification |
| 23:41.10 | Lone_Wanderer | Fascinating. |
| 23:41.10 | levi | Cool, a coworker just showed me a little movie that our engineering cluster was ray-tracing in real-time. |
| 23:41.11 | findlay | levi: that's neat |
| 23:41.11 | findlay | how long do you think all animation is done that way? |
| 23:41.11 | mheath | ~classify Lone_Wanderer |
| 23:41.13 | findlay | s/how long/how long until |
| 23:41.13 | *** join/#utah wps (n=wps@67.108.236.230.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 23:41.13 | mheath | ~kick ibot |
| 23:41.14 | levi | findlay: Well, it was a pretty simplistic scene, but most animation is already done that way, just a bit slower due to the more complex scenes. |
| 23:41.15 | Lone_Wanderer | I was thinking on the way to work today that it'd be cool to write a program that would take a CD and dynamically remix it in realtime |
| 23:41.15 | findlay | levi: but you swap the vector source of animations and view them fully realized, do you? |
| 23:41.15 | findlay | don't, I mean |
| 23:41.15 | mheath | -chat about something |
| 23:41.15 | brac | something was in elementary school, they teach you |
| 23:41.16 | levi | findlay: It doesn't make a lot of sense to render a movie in real-time, though, aside from cool demos. |
| 23:41.16 | levi | findlay: You should either spend less on hardware, or add more complexity to the rendering. |
| 23:41.17 | *** join/#utah Sargun (n=xbmodder@atarack/staff/sargun) |
| 23:41.17 | mheath | gotta leave to go study more |
| 23:41.17 | mheath | I have watch tonight too =\ |
| 23:41.17 | levi | mheath: Have fun. |
| 23:41.17 | findlay | levi: the question I'm asking is how long before hardware is advanced to the point that it is trivial to render an animation in real time on any machine |
| 23:42.41 | Sargun | findlay, What quality? |
| 23:43.04 | findlay | Sargun: that's the real question isn't it? |
| 23:43.25 | levi | findlay: And my point is that animations will increase in complexity such that the animated movies we watch will still have to be pre-rendered, or will continue to be pre-rendered simply because it's cheaper that way. I mean, we can probably already render some of yesterday's movies (for some arbitrarily distant time in the past that makes this work) in real-time, but today's movies still pre-render in big render farms. |
| 23:43.54 | findlay | computers still take the same amount of time to start up and do other 'trivial' tasks that they did years ago, although many factors of ten faster |
| 23:44.46 | findlay | and tomorrow's movies will be harvested on the farm too |
| 23:45.26 | levi | The high-level tasks are the same, but the operations that the computer performs are orders of magnitude more complex as well. |
| 23:45.31 | levi | And it's the same with video rendering. |
| 23:45.35 | brac | And it's something to try puerto rico |
| 23:46.10 | tensai | I would like to try puerto rico, especially this time of year |
| 23:46.25 | levi | I mean, if your high-level task is to 'render a 3d video in real-time', we could do that back in the 90s; it just looked at lot more primitive. |
| 23:46.55 | findlay | levi: I guess we render 3D games in real-time |
| 23:47.02 | levi | Indeed. |
| 23:47.11 | levi | And they continue to get more and more visually complex. |
| 23:48.01 | levi | Instead of rendering them faster, we make them more complicated so that the rendering time remains roughly constant, because there's no point in rendering any faster when you could be rendering /better/ instead. |
| 23:49.39 | levi | I think the same principle applies to movies. |
| 23:50.01 | levi | Though the point of diminishing returns for render speed is less clear-cut. |
| 23:51.39 | levi | I'll bet that we could probably already render a lot of the silly 3d kids shows in real-time. They probably don't do full ray-tracing, and could probably have a lot of the animation piped through the video card. |
