| 00:04.21 | Lone_Wanderer | Is string processing in Erlang really a joy? |
| 00:05.07 | *** join/#utah nick125- (n=ndevito@m120e36d0.tmodns.net) |
| 00:05.25 | tristanbob | elg: cool plane setup |
| 00:05.54 | nick125- | mmm..... |
| 00:11.23 | findlay | ~bool atoponce |
| 00:11.25 | ibot | FALSE |
| 00:11.43 | *** join/#utah vontrapp3 (n=von@71.36.90.153) |
| 00:13.07 | findlay | ~bool ibot |
| 00:13.09 | ibot | FALSE |
| 00:13.21 | Lone_Wanderer | ~bool Lone_Wanderer |
| 00:13.23 | ibot | FALSE |
| 00:13.28 | Lone_Wanderer | What's true? |
| 00:13.44 | findlay | I just made him say FALSE. I don't know how to toggle ): |
| 00:13.45 | macnewbold | ~bool 1 |
| 00:13.46 | ibot | FALSE |
| 00:13.51 | macnewbold | ~bool TRUE |
| 00:13.52 | ibot | FALSE |
| 00:13.53 | macnewbold | ~bool FALSE |
| 00:13.55 | ibot | FALSE |
| 00:13.58 | macnewbold | nice |
| 00:14.05 | macnewbold | ~bool ibot isn't dumb |
| 00:14.07 | ibot | FALSE |
| 00:14.08 | findlay | ibot: you have a depressingly negative view on life |
| 00:14.10 | Lone_Wanderer | ahh, okay |
| 00:17.10 | *** join/#utah vontrapp_ (n=von@71.36.90.153) |
| 00:19.53 | *** join/#utah nick125- (n=ndevito@m120e36d0.tmodns.net) |
| 00:23.51 | *** join/#utah nick125- (n=ndevito@m2c0e36d0.tmodns.net) |
| 00:27.16 | dataw0lf | ~bool 1=1 |
| 00:27.17 | ibot | FALSE |
| 00:27.22 | dataw0lf | hmph |
| 00:31.53 | *** join/#utah vontrapp3 (n=von@71.35.254.49) |
| 00:34.22 | nick125- | weee |
| 00:37.39 | *** join/#utah nick125- (n=ndevito@m2c0e36d0.tmodns.net) |
| 00:39.08 | *** join/#utah GvzEvxre (n=timr@216.49.181.128) |
| 00:39.08 | *** mode/#utah [+o GvzEvxre] by ChanServ |
| 00:41.25 | *** join/#utah vontrapp_ (n=von@71.36.90.153) |
| 00:41.28 | Lone_Wanderer | Tim Riker? Wasn't it... *thinks* |
| 00:41.40 | Lone_Wanderer | Commander... ____ Riker. I can't remember his first name :( |
| 00:41.52 | Lone_Wanderer | William. |
| 00:46.26 | *** join/#utah vontrapp (n=von@207.108.169.113) |
| 00:48.02 | TimRiker | William Thomas Riker is the st:tng guy. |
| 00:48.30 | TimRiker | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:51.07 | Lone_Wanderer | any intentional connection there? |
| 00:52.50 | macnewbold | now just find an excuse to name a son william, and you're ready to go |
| 00:53.04 | macnewbold | or, you could get weird, and name a son Jean-Luc or something |
| 00:53.37 | Lone_Wanderer | I have a friend who made a short, bald gnome warlock in WoW and named him JeanLucPicard (or something equally obvious) |
| 00:54.05 | *** join/#utah mheath (n=mheath@c-76-23-104-208.hsd1.sc.comcast.net) |
| 00:54.40 | mheath | Good evening. |
| 00:54.46 | emcnabb | mheath: greetings |
| 00:54.52 | mheath | Hmmm. This cable is horrible. |
| 00:55.08 | mheath | Get weird random spikes of lag |
| 00:55.45 | emcnabb | so you're in my neck of the woods |
| 00:56.03 | mheath | Sunny Charleston, South Carolina :) |
| 00:56.05 | mheath | Where are you at? |
| 00:56.13 | emcnabb | Raleigh, NC |
| 00:56.24 | mheath | Well, I'm actually in Goose Creek, South Carolina... |
| 00:57.25 | emcnabb | I stayed over in that area two months ago for a night |
| 00:57.41 | mheath | I'm loving it |
| 00:57.53 | emcnabb | good to hear |
| 00:57.57 | mheath | Enjoying some relaxed semi-down time right now before I start classes next week |
| 00:58.19 | mheath | Right now, my days are 7AM-4PM and I'm just going through indoc briefs... |
| 00:58.56 | mheath | Starting next week, my days are 7AM-4PM of tough academic classes, plus at least 2 hours a night (usually more) of mandatory study time... |
| 00:59.36 | macnewbold | so do they still have many geese in goose creek? |
| 00:59.42 | macnewbold | or was there only just one |
| 00:59.55 | mheath | Heh. Couldn't tell you. I've been off base all of one time :( |
| 01:00.01 | mheath | And that was to go waste my money at Best Buy |
| 01:00.32 | mheath | We've got the world's highest sales of any Best Buy here. Thanks to me and my fellow nukes wasting way too much money there. |
| 01:00.53 | mheath | Two weaknesses of a Navy Nuke: Best Buy, and Girl Scout Cookies |
| 01:01.16 | mheath | Freakin Girl Scouts are like leeches. They stake out a spot by the mini-mart here we have to frequent. |
| 01:01.31 | mheath | I heard one of their leaders coaching a girl on following people after they said no, they didn't want cookies |
| 01:01.54 | mheath | Thousands of people on this base and I guarantee you 90% of them have at least one box of Girl Scout cookies. |
| 01:02.34 | macnewbold | hehe |
| 01:02.40 | macnewbold | and you can never stop at just one |
| 01:03.51 | mheath | I'm trying to figure out what this building is made of... |
| 01:03.55 | mheath | Lead, as far as I can tell |
| 01:03.59 | mheath | heh |
| 01:04.13 | mheath | My friend was going to pay for part of the cable bill, with me sharing the cable with him |
| 01:04.17 | mheath | So we buy a wireless router |
| 01:04.39 | mheath | The thing won't even reach the < 50ft distance to his room. |
| 01:04.56 | macnewbold | first thing to try is better antennae |
| 01:05.11 | macnewbold | most brands have some better ones you can pick up for relatively cheap |
| 01:05.19 | macnewbold | that will do wonders for your effective power |
| 01:05.28 | mheath | It's just a linksys WRT54G |
| 01:05.31 | macnewbold | linksys for example |
| 01:05.33 | macnewbold | perfect |
| 01:05.35 | macnewbold | I have one too |
| 01:05.44 | macnewbold | they sell some 7db and 9db antennas for them |
| 01:05.50 | mheath | Apparently a lot of the 3rd party firmwares for that will let you up the TX power, too |
| 01:05.56 | tene | you can make a directional reflector for pretty cheap out of foil or screen and cardboard or styrofoam |
| 01:06.07 | macnewbold | right, or the good old pringles can yagi |
| 01:06.09 | tene | Make a parabola and put the antenna in the focus |
| 01:06.24 | macnewbold | but you have to know some math to do that right :) |
| 01:06.31 | macnewbold | and you do lose your omni-directional capability |
| 01:06.35 | macnewbold | but sometimes that's a good thing |
| 01:06.35 | tene | Or just print a parabola and cut it |
| 01:06.45 | tene | use a computer to do it for you |
| 01:07.07 | tene | Hmm. I might be wrong... maybe it was a hyperbola |
| 01:07.15 | macnewbold | does a flashlight work for that? i.e. get a big lantern flashlight, take the silver reflector out of it, and stick the antenna where the bulb used to be? |
| 01:07.20 | macnewbold | no, it's a parabola, not a hyperbola |
| 01:07.21 | tene | m'eh. best to ask google before trusting me anyway. |
| 01:07.31 | macnewbold | a hyperbola wouldn't do what you want. |
| 01:08.00 | macnewbold | the property of the parabola that makes it work for this is that a line extended from the focus to the curve |
| 01:08.10 | macnewbold | if reflected about the normal of the curve at that point, |
| 01:08.39 | macnewbold | will go straight out of the parabola, and no matter what angle it is hit, it reflects all the beams parallel out the end of the parabola |
| 01:08.49 | tene | right |
| 01:12.26 | Lone_Wanderer | ohhh, so an omnidirectional source, when placed in a parabola, will have all of it's... stuff... leaving the parabola in parallel lines? |
| 01:12.30 | Lone_Wanderer | well not all, but whatever hits the dish |
| 01:12.45 | tene | right |
| 01:12.48 | Lone_Wanderer | also, what does it mean for something to be a "9db" antenna? I thought a db was a measurement of how loud sound is |
| 01:13.14 | tene | it works the same for measuring how "loud" radio signals are. |
| 01:13.21 | findlay | db is a unitless ratio of power |
| 01:13.27 | Lone_Wanderer | cool |
| 01:13.35 | findlay | power per unit volume or something |
| 01:13.58 | Lone_Wanderer | so a 9db antenna will pick up a signal that's 9db strong? or does such an antenna increase the signal by 9 db? |
| 01:14.18 | findlay | maybe the 9 dB refers to the gain |
| 01:16.05 | *** join/#utah graphyx (n=graphyx@205.208.245.105) |
| 01:16.18 | vontrapp | hmmm |
| 01:17.05 | findlay | ~torrent ubuntu vontrapp |
| 01:17.15 | vontrapp | it get's 1448 bytes and stops |
| 01:19.05 | findlay | sure it doesn't get to 1337? |
| 01:19.26 | *** part/#utah SpecialZ (n=skraczek@12.191.193.40) |
| 01:19.30 | graphyx | findlay: wouldn't you rather have 31337? |
| 01:19.51 | vontrapp | if i ever have a file on a server that stalls after a certain amount, it will be 1337 |
| 01:20.12 | findlay | well, 1337 + 111 = 1448 |
| 01:20.28 | vontrapp | oh yeah, i'm so blind... |
| 01:20.48 | vontrapp | well, i guess i'll just install windows then |
| 01:21.03 | findlay | yeah |
| 01:21.04 | macnewbold | eww |
| 01:21.09 | vontrapp | well, not _just_ windows |
| 01:21.23 | vontrapp | on purpose? |
| 01:21.33 | mheath | Yes. |
| 01:21.40 | mheath | I'm going to school for 12+ hours a day |
| 01:21.50 | macnewbold | Lone_Wanderer, findlay: yes, it is measure of the gain |
| 01:21.56 | mheath | I really just don't have time to tinker with Linux and stuff right now |
| 01:22.00 | mheath | Or game |
| 01:22.08 | vontrapp | you think it's a superflous question, but hans has a story about installing windows not on purpose |
| 01:22.27 | *** join/#utah SpecialZ (n=skraczek@12.191.193.40) |
| 01:22.27 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 01:22.32 | macnewbold | decibels are used for sound as well as various other kinds of signal strength too |
| 01:22.36 | graphyx | That sounds like the making of a good blog post |
| 01:22.44 | vontrapp | elg: we were just talking about you |
| 01:22.45 | Lone_Wanderer | huh, cool |
| 01:22.53 | SpecialZ | including digital signals |
| 01:23.10 | macnewbold | 10db = a 10x increase in power |
| 01:23.20 | mheath | Oh, hey, does anyone have any VOIP recommendations? |
| 01:23.26 | macnewbold | but it is logarithmic, not linear |
| 01:23.31 | mheath | I was trying to use Yahoo Messenger with Voice crap |
| 01:23.34 | macnewbold | so 3db = 2x increase |
| 01:23.37 | mheath | Sound quality was horrible |
| 01:23.41 | vontrapp | i thought decibels was an exponential scale |
| 01:23.43 | macnewbold | mheath: vonage is a popular one |
| 01:23.45 | mheath | Dropped calls, lag, thing kept freezing |
| 01:23.48 | macnewbold | vontrapp: yeah, that might be it |
| 01:23.50 | macnewbold | one of the two :) |
| 01:24.05 | mheath | macnewbold, I don't want a contract and I don't want to have to buy a special handset or anything |
| 01:24.09 | findlay | vontrapp: it is. It's base 10 |
| 01:24.16 | mheath | I just want to be able to make a few outgoing calls from my computer using my headset |
| 01:24.17 | macnewbold | 10db = 10x, 20db = 100x, 30db = 1000x, etc. |
| 01:24.27 | macnewbold | mheath: from your computer only? |
| 01:24.28 | graphyx | macnewbold: I believe the precise definition is 3db = 2x loud |
| 01:24.28 | macnewbold | skype? |
| 01:24.29 | findlay | exponential base 10 |
| 01:24.42 | mheath | macnewbold, Voice quality good with skype? |
| 01:24.44 | graphyx | nvm you said that |
| 01:24.48 | macnewbold | it's base ten by definition, I think the 3db=2x is approximate |
| 01:24.51 | mheath | Yeah. I just want to be able to make some calls from my room |
| 01:24.55 | macnewbold | it might be pi db = 2x or something |
| 01:24.55 | jsmith | graphyx: You're correct. 3db gain = twice the volume |
| 01:24.55 | mheath | Verizon's coverage is horrible here |
| 01:25.01 | mheath | I have to go outside to use my cellphone. |
| 01:25.01 | tene | mheath: gizmo has a pretty simple service, I think |
| 01:25.12 | mheath | OK, I'm evil |
| 01:25.22 | vontrapp | ok, for reals now, installing windows... for reasons beyond my control |
| 01:25.23 | vontrapp | feel free to mourn me |
| 01:25.24 | mheath | Now I'm installing MS Money... |
| 01:25.25 | macnewbold | mheath: that's the same antenna problem - hold a tinfoil parabola around your cell phone and you'll be fine |
| 01:25.27 | Lone_Wanderer | 3.5 liters |
| 01:25.47 | macnewbold | mheath: I've heard voice quality is fine with skype, but I haven't used it myself |
| 01:25.49 | Lone_Wanderer | of liquid today. One of which was coffee. I wonder if that's unhealthy. |
| 01:25.50 | *** join/#utah nick125_lappy (n=nick@12.196.240.131) |
| 01:25.55 | macnewbold | it's cheap, so just try it I guess :) |
| 01:26.23 | macnewbold | in fact, you can do it free if you're not going out to real phones |
| 01:26.25 | mheath | I really like Vista, though |
| 01:26.26 | nick125_lappy | finally arrived in los cruces |
| 01:26.29 | mheath | Shoot me, but I like it. |
| 01:26.31 | nick125_lappy | las cruces |
| 01:26.33 | nick125_lappy | meh |
| 01:26.55 | mheath | nick125_lappy, Hello from Charleston, SC. |
| 01:27.07 | nick125_lappy | hey mheath |
| 01:27.11 | nick125_lappy | How are you doing? |
| 01:27.18 | mheath | Eh, OK |
| 01:27.44 | mheath | Enjoying some downtime right now. Dreading starting classes on Monday |
| 01:27.44 | mheath | Just because my schedule is going to be insane for the next 6 months |
| 01:28.04 | mheath | 11+ hours of school every day, Monday-Friday. |
| 01:28.05 | tene | What does "FN" stand for? |
| 01:28.09 | mheath | Fireman. |
| 01:28.18 | mheath | Not to be confused with firefighter |
| 01:28.35 | tene | What's the significant difference? |
| 01:28.38 | mheath | the term carries over from back in the day when they had steam engines.....the fireman was the one who fired or ran the engine |
| 01:28.48 | tene | Huh. |
| 01:28.50 | tene | Interesting. |
| 01:28.55 | mheath | Fireman just signifies that I work in the engineering spaces of a ship |
| 01:28.58 | mheath | Run the engine |
| 01:29.07 | mheath | (Nuclear reactor is a nonconventional engine, but an engine still) |
| 01:29.56 | mheath | I won't be an FN for long |
| 01:30.09 | mheath | in 6 months, hopefully, I will be Electrician's Mate 3rd Class Michael Heath |
| 01:36.53 | Lone_Wanderer | engineering meaning that you deal with the engine? I never made the connection before. |
| 01:37.17 | Lone_Wanderer | No wait, I *did* make the connection! When I was... what was I then... |
| 01:37.30 | Lone_Wanderer | Six years old. |
| 01:37.47 | Lone_Wanderer | Someone asked if I wanted to be an engineer when I grew up and I thought to myself "Why would I want to work on engines? That sounds boring." |
| 01:38.19 | Lone_Wanderer | mheath: what ship are you on, that it has a nuclear reactor? |
| 01:39.01 | mheath | Lone_Wanderer, not on any ship right now. I'm training to run a nuclear reactor. |
| 01:39.07 | mheath | Lots of ships do though |
| 01:39.09 | Lone_Wanderer | ahh, cool |
| 01:39.22 | mheath | All of the submarines that the USN has have nuclear reactors |
| 01:39.29 | mheath | And al of the aircraft carriers |
| 01:39.29 | Lone_Wanderer | I know all about running nuclear reactors. |
| 01:39.36 | Lone_Wanderer | Been watching the Simpsons for years now. |
| 01:39.57 | Lone_Wanderer | oh, you just said, carriers |
| 01:41.37 | mheath | I didn't get the Homer Simpson job |
| 01:41.39 | mheath | :( |
| 01:41.49 | mheath | Theres three different jobs you can do as a Nuke in the Navy |
| 01:41.56 | Lone_Wanderer | It's okay, eating donuts all day is for Air Force officers anyway. |
| 01:42.06 | mheath | ET (Electronics Technician), EM (Electrician's Mate), and MM (Machinist's Mate) |
| 01:42.17 | mheath | ET = Homer Simpson. Sit at the console and run the reactor. |
| 01:42.42 | mheath | I'm an EM. Meaning I get to go into the operational spaces of the reactor and repair / maintain / monitor the electronics within |
| 01:42.44 | Lone_Wanderer | And you're the EM? |
| 01:42.55 | Lone_Wanderer | Ahh. |
| 01:42.56 | tene | Hmm. Is Brazil portugese or spanish? |
| 01:43.01 | Lone_Wanderer | So you get down in there with the actual glowing stuff? |
| 01:43.06 | Lone_Wanderer | portugese |
| 01:43.35 | mheath | No |
| 01:43.40 | mheath | Not in the core |
| 01:43.50 | Lone_Wanderer | Nobody ever goes in the core, right? |
| 01:43.56 | mheath | Right |
| 01:44.01 | mheath | I'm in the mechanical spaces |
| 01:44.10 | mheath | Where the steam turbines and that kind of stuff is |
| 01:45.14 | Lone_Wanderer | ahh, cool |
| 01:50.39 | elg | mheath: gizmoproject.com |
| 01:50.52 | elg | skype is proprietary protocol. you'll wish you didn't in the end |
| 01:51.06 | elg | gizmo is just as capable and uses open protocols |
| 01:51.21 | elg | i hear google talk (which also uses open protocols) works well too |
| 01:51.37 | elg | macnewbold: 3db is approximately 2x |
| 01:52.08 | tene | I don't think google talk has integrated "pay to call landlines" |
| 01:52.10 | mheath | elg, but wait....both of these let you use PC-to-Landline calls? |
| 01:52.17 | elg | the precise definition is dB = 10 log_10 (x/x_0) |
| 01:52.20 | mheath | I didn't think google talk could do that |
| 01:52.22 | Lone_Wanderer | So is 9db 6x, or is it 8x? |
| 01:52.34 | elg | mheath: yes, skype and gizmo both have pstn gateway |
| 01:52.52 | elg | if you want a real provider, as in like a primary phone sort of thing, you might check with arrivaltel.com |
| 01:53.12 | elg | they're good folk. don't know if they can get you a local number but you could get a toll-free |
| 01:53.14 | jsmith | Lone_Wanderer: 9db is 8x |
| 01:53.27 | mheath | Question |
| 01:53.42 | mheath | do any cell phone manufacturers make cell phones designed for good reception? |
| 01:53.42 | elg | that formula is power. when you're talking amplitude, dB = 20 log_10 (x/x_0) |
| 01:53.43 | jsmith | Lone_Wanderer: double, doubled again, and doubled once again |
| 01:54.00 | mheath | IE, external antennaes, bigger batteries for higher TX power, etc? |
| 01:54.14 | elg | mheath: doesn't sound sexy, so I'm guessing no |
| 01:54.23 | elg | but i don't even have a cell phoe |
| 01:54.37 | jsmith | mheath: I've always had better reception with a Nokia (internal antenna) than anything with an external antenna |
| 01:54.59 | mheath | jsmith, well, I'm not talking about just "slightly better reception than the other phones" |
| 01:55.03 | *** part/#utah harleypig (n=harleypi@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 01:55.19 | mheath | I'm talking about something designed for good reception so it actually works in situations where normal phones get very little or no coverage |
| 01:55.45 | elg | well, the frequencies they work on require short antennas |
| 01:56.14 | Lone_Wanderer | jsmith: right, and 12db is 16x |
| 01:56.28 | mheath | Well |
| 01:56.39 | mheath | I want a cellphone that works on the old analog network then. Or something |
| 01:56.45 | mheath | WHY DOES VERIZON SUCK SO BAD HERE? |
| 01:56.48 | mheath | Sprint works fine |
| 01:56.52 | jsmith | You're still inside a gaussian sphere |
| 01:56.53 | mheath | As does altel |
| 01:57.18 | elg | sounds like the solution is clear |
| 01:57.27 | mheath | No |
| 01:57.31 | mheath | I'd ditch Verizon |
| 01:57.46 | mheath | but my main reason for having Verizon is because everyone in my family has it |
| 01:57.54 | mheath | So I have free calling to everyone in my faimly |
| 01:57.56 | mheath | *family |
| 01:58.22 | mrpull-_ | mheath: don't you live underwater or something? |
| 01:58.23 | mheath | Which isn't so much for my benefit (I use so little minutes that it doesn't matter if it uses my minutes anyway) but for theres as it's free for them to receive my calls |
| 01:58.41 | elg | one half wavelength of common cell frequencies is about 6 inches, so I guess an external antenna of 6 or 12 inches (about) would perhaps help out |
| 01:58.58 | elg | but I'm not sure if cell phones are commonly on 900MHz still |
| 01:59.07 | elg | I thought they moved up to some 2GHz-ish range |
| 01:59.29 | mheath | Thats why I want an analog phone |
| 01:59.31 | Lone_Wanderer | Is it even possible to attach an external antenna to modern cell phones? |
| 01:59.40 | mheath | No |
| 01:59.44 | mheath | For the reasons elg brings up |
| 02:01.15 | elg | well if you're EE savvy enough and handy with a soldering iron it's probably _possible_ |
| 02:01.45 | mheath | They tell me I'm supposed to be EE savvy :P |
| 02:02.05 | mheath | EE savvy enough to saulder components of a nuclear reactor, apparently |
| 02:02.11 | mheath | though thats 1.5 years of training away :P |
| 02:03.11 | mrpull-_ | and at least two letters away |
| 02:05.26 | elg | i'm no expert, but google is telling me ideal length is 1/4 wavelength |
| 02:05.28 | elg | so either 3 inches or much smaller if it's 2ghz |
| 02:05.48 | graphyx | What are we building an antenna forL |
| 02:05.49 | graphyx | ? |
| 02:05.58 | Lone_Wanderer | You also might want to learn to spell solder ;) |
| 02:06.17 | Lone_Wanderer | graphyx: a cell phone I believe |
| 02:13.57 | graphyx | wow i killed the conversation. |
| 02:13.58 | graphyx | !! |
| 02:14.05 | *** join/#utah wps (n=wps@208.53.47.251) |
| 02:22.34 | *** join/#utah wps (n=wps@208.53.47.251) |
| 02:22.35 | Lone_Wanderer | So, in Beatnik, in order to echo out a character, you first have to push it's ASCII value onto the stack, and then pop it out and print it? |
| 02:22.53 | findlay | heh, I'm the only person in my biology class with an overall percent >95 |
| 02:23.06 | findlay | and I don't study or take notes |
| 02:23.06 | Lone_Wanderer | That's because I loaned you my brain and you didn't notice it. |
| 02:23.13 | Lone_Wanderer | Yep, definitely my brain. |
| 02:23.26 | findlay | what does that tell you about the course material for the class? |
| 02:23.30 | Lone_Wanderer | Never studied or took notes in either biology or Human Anatomy & Phys. |
| 02:23.32 | findlay | about the students in the class? |
| 02:23.49 | Lone_Wanderer | and I aced them both. raised the curve in human anatomy. |
| 02:23.56 | findlay | heh |
| 02:24.18 | Lone_Wanderer | I went out dancing the night before the final, too. And when the girl behind me got mad at me, I turned around and said "Hey, just be glad I didn't study." |
| 02:24.19 | findlay | Lone_Wanderer: this class is *easy* |
| 02:24.22 | Lone_Wanderer | Oh. |
| 02:24.26 | Lone_Wanderer | I thought you were just smart like that. |
| 02:24.39 | findlay | probably not |
| 02:25.04 | levi_home | findlay: You're in a UVSC biology class? |
| 02:25.15 | Lone_Wanderer | My brain seems to be wired to learn biology. I'm not sure why, but I suspect that it's more because biology is taught using a lot of pictures, and I can remember an image nearly forever just by looking at it once. |
| 02:25.26 | findlay | the professor seems to think it's hard, and that's what *I'm* having a hard time reconciling |
| 02:25.42 | findlay | levi_home: yes |
| 02:25.48 | findlay | 1010 |
| 02:26.16 | levi_home | I took Biology at BYU. For some reason, they make CS students take the Bio class that's labeled 'Intro to Biology for Majors'. |
| 02:26.26 | findlay | was it hard? |
| 02:26.27 | levi_home | It's a weed-out class for prospective Bio majors. It sucked. |
| 02:26.32 | findlay | did you learn anything |
| 02:26.39 | levi_home | I learned quite a bit. |
| 02:27.21 | Lone_Wanderer | Why would they make CS students take it? |
| 02:27.41 | levi_home | To make their lives miserable? |
| 02:27.44 | findlay | I sit in class with my eyes closed and wait for the professor to change his slide, look at it, then rest some more for the next 5 minutes while he explains it down into base vapidity |
| 02:27.51 | levi_home | We had to take Intro to Physics for Majors, too. |
| 02:28.03 | Lone_Wanderer | huh, cool |
| 02:28.24 | findlay | I do learn stuff but it is so sllloooooooowwwwwwwwwww!!!1 |
| 02:28.31 | Lone_Wanderer | levi_home: smalltalk + distributed MUD == ??? |
| 02:28.43 | Lone_Wanderer | Does he grade based on attendance at all? |
| 02:28.51 | Lone_Wanderer | And do you have the option of testing out of it? |
| 02:28.59 | findlay | nope |
| 02:29.12 | levi_home | I don't know that Smalltalk would be the best choice if you want to do a distributed MUD. |
| 02:29.20 | levi_home | It would be a good choice otherwise, though. |
| 02:29.21 | Lone_Wanderer | That's kind of what I thought too. |
| 02:29.46 | Lone_Wanderer | I really like the idea of making a distributed game in any form. |
| 02:29.47 | findlay | Lone_Wanderer: I go every day to try to overcome some bad school habits I've had |
| 02:29.59 | Lone_Wanderer | ahh, I see findlay. I have those habits as well I'm afraid. |
| 02:30.01 | levi_home | Distributed MUDs aren't really a new idea. CoolMUD had support for distribution built-in, and there were several MUSH and MOO distribution efforts. |
| 02:30.12 | Lone_Wanderer | None of them worked? :( |
| 02:30.19 | Lone_Wanderer | Or rather, got terribly popular? |
| 02:30.23 | levi_home | It mostly ended up being a gimmick. |
| 02:30.26 | Lone_Wanderer | Figured. |
| 02:30.47 | levi_home | Something cool to investigate the technology for, but not very useful for gameplay. |
| 02:31.11 | Lone_Wanderer | I think it'd be interesting to do something like Second Life in a distributed system. |
| 02:31.18 | levi_home | Second Life is a distributed system. |
| 02:31.31 | levi_home | I watched a technical presentation on how it works. It's pretty slick. |
| 02:31.34 | findlay | Lone_Wanderer: I like learning the pictoral biology diagrams too, although I can't say I'm any good at it |
| 02:31.36 | Lone_Wanderer | Okay, in a distributed system that anyone can plug their own server into. |
| 02:31.55 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 02:32.04 | Lone_Wanderer | ibot and elg, sittin' in a tree |
| 02:32.15 | levi_home | Lone_Wanderer: Take a look at Croquet, then. |
| 02:32.31 | levi_home | Lone_Wanderer: Duh, I should have thought of that when you mentioned Smalltalk + distributed systems. |
| 02:32.41 | levi_home | Lone_Wanderer: That's exactly what Croquet is for. |
| 02:32.46 | Lone_Wanderer | cool! |
| 02:33.08 | elg | oh did I miss an episode of "what cool language ..."? |
| 02:33.20 | Lone_Wanderer | I asked what language I should use to write a mud. |
| 02:34.06 | levi_home | Anyway, you should look at E, too, if only for the ideas. |
| 02:34.52 | levi_home | E is what happens when people who know what they're doing try to write a secure distributed system. |
| 02:34.55 | Lone_Wanderer | I keep thinking of a... thing |
| 02:35.21 | Lone_Wanderer | that's kind of like a cross between Croquet (I think, anyway) and Google Notebook / Gmail / other Google Office things |
| 02:35.51 | Lone_Wanderer | So you can go into an MMO-like world, but actually *do* stuff in it. |
| 02:35.59 | Lone_Wanderer | And see other people. |
| 02:36.40 | Lone_Wanderer | Like, if I visit a web page, I'd see other people standing around looking at it. When one of them follows a hyperlink, their avatar gets sucked into the link and the disappear. |
| 02:36.44 | Lone_Wanderer | Or something. I dunno. |
| 02:36.45 | levi_home | You should watch some of the Croquet demos. |
| 02:36.55 | Lone_Wanderer | they* |
| 02:37.40 | Lone_Wanderer | Are there croquet... communities (word?) that are up and running that I could plug into? |
| 02:38.14 | levi_home | 'Hyperlinks' between worlds are represented as big windows that you walk through. You can also have VR windows that can show system windows, like a web browser, and you can interact with them. |
| 02:38.27 | Lone_Wanderer | that's awesome |
| 02:38.28 | levi_home | Other people can see what you click on, etc. |
| 02:39.06 | levi_home | I'm not sure if there are any public Croquet servers up that you can connect to. Every time I've messed with it, I just run one of the local sample ones. |
| 02:39.16 | Lone_Wanderer | oh well |
| 02:39.43 | levi_home | The current Croquet release is a SDK, not an application. |
| 02:39.57 | Lone_Wanderer | heh, somehow I knew that Alan Kay was involved in this |
| 02:40.03 | levi_home | Heh. |
| 02:40.04 | Lone_Wanderer | it's got his style all over |
| 02:40.28 | Lone_Wanderer | "Croquet allows the user to edit the source code of the 3D world from within the world, and immediately see the result while the world is still running. The running program does not have to be ended, and there is no compile-link-run-debug development loop. Any part of the program may be edited, down to the VM & OpenGL calls." |
| 02:40.41 | Lone_Wanderer | The window in that picture looks a lot like the Squeak window that you can get. |
| 02:41.12 | levi_home | Croquet is currently hosted in Squeak. |
| 02:41.18 | Lone_Wanderer | Figures. |
| 02:42.45 | Lone_Wanderer | What does E mean when it says it's a peer to peer scripting language? |
| 02:44.02 | levi_home | I'm not sure exactly what they mean by that. |
| 02:44.08 | Lone_Wanderer | k |
| 02:45.49 | levi_home | http://www.opencroquet.org/index.php/Current_Projects |
| 02:46.02 | levi_home | Interesting stuff in there, including a link to a 'Known Worlds' page. |
| 02:46.06 | Lone_Wanderer | k |
| 02:46.12 | Lone_Wanderer | heh, known worlds |
| 02:46.45 | levi_home | Aww, the known worlds page is empty. |
| 02:46.55 | herlo | ping Jayce^ |
| 02:50.53 | *** topic/#utah by herlo -> The channel for OSS discussion in Utah | http://www.plug.org/node/28 | #utah stands for U-Haul Transformers Attacking Hamsters | Utah Open Source Conference - September 6-8, 2007 |
| 02:52.24 | *** join/#utah redxdeath (n=Memphis@lre-east-1-22.usahousing.utah.edu) |
| 02:53.04 | redxdeath | hello everybody |
| 02:54.08 | redxdeath | is anybody here? |
| 02:54.21 | Lone_Wanderer | No. |
| 02:54.55 | redxdeath | hehe alright, #utos told me to come here to find some open source projects in Utah to help with |
| 02:55.01 | findlay | Lone_Wanderer: I thought you were there |
| 02:55.13 | graphyx | When I did the chem class I wasn't decided between cs and physics so i took Chem 111 |
| 02:55.24 | graphyx | And ended up with like a b+ in it. |
| 02:55.32 | Lone_Wanderer | redxdeath: where in Utah are you at? |
| 02:55.36 | redxdeath | SLC |
| 02:55.37 | graphyx | my worse grad at BYU |
| 02:56.31 | redxdeath | I have a few of my own ideas but I would need some help, I also wanna help people on their open source projects if they are in SLC |
| 02:56.52 | redxdeath | I have a site www.hartdevelopments.com |
| 02:57.03 | Lone_Wanderer | cool |
| 02:57.28 | redxdeath | anyone else here living in SLC?? |
| 02:57.43 | Lone_Wanderer | Me. Soon anyway. |
| 02:58.34 | redxdeath | Lone_wander:Interested in helping me out with my project? |
| 02:58.44 | Lone_Wanderer | No. |
| 02:58.50 | redxdeath | k |
| 02:58.54 | Lone_Wanderer | I don't know what it is. |
| 02:58.58 | Lone_Wanderer | After you tell me I might be. |
| 02:59.31 | findlay | why aren't you going to help anyone who doesn't live in SL? |
| 02:59.46 | tene | I'm in SLC |
| 03:00.36 | redxdeath | hehe okay, I got a few.... I have my Ipod study where there will be all the stuff need to study for certain classes, also a podcast, the other is a Template site with Monster Templates quailty templates for free and receive donations |
| 03:00.57 | redxdeath | I will I just gotta meet up with people cause nothing happens over e-mail or chat |
| 03:01.13 | Lone_Wanderer | yeah, nothing. ever. |
| 03:01.23 | redxdeath | sorry tene, I will if people actually want help, remote stuff just never seems to happen |
| 03:01.33 | findlay | I see |
| 03:01.38 | tene | redxdeath: eh? |
| 03:01.44 | tene | redxdeath: replying to findlay? |
| 03:01.48 | Lone_Wanderer | Everyone who ever contributed to Linux lives within a few blocks of Mr. Torvalds. |
| 03:02.09 | redxdeath | tene: oh yeah it was findlay sorry |
| 03:02.13 | findlay | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:02.16 | findlay | sorry |
| 03:02.23 | redxdeath | watching that 70's show at the same time my bad |
| 03:02.23 | tene | |
| 03:02.43 | elg | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:03.20 | redxdeath | So what about a good Open Source Project, who has one and what can I do to help it? |
| 03:03.37 | Lone_Wanderer | What languages do you know? |
| 03:04.22 | redxdeath | German, English.......Canadian, look I know people contribute to Linux but they have groups that are close together and Linux is Modular anyhow |
| 03:04.43 | findlay | I need help with a project in runes |
| 03:04.52 | findlay | specifically getting it added to unicode |
| 03:04.56 | redxdeath | what do you got? |
| 03:04.57 | findlay | then I'll be happy |
| 03:04.57 | Lone_Wanderer | Scandinavian? |
| 03:04.57 | redxdeath | cool |
| 03:05.02 | redxdeath | nope |
| 03:05.11 | elg | ~viking Lone_Wanderer |
| 03:05.13 | Lone_Wanderer | I was asking if his runes are scandinavian. |
| 03:05.18 | redxdeath | dunno |
| 03:05.29 | findlay | no, silly, elvish and dwarvish |
| 03:05.30 | Lone_Wanderer | I don't expect you to know. That's why I was asking him. |
| 03:05.36 | Lone_Wanderer | Ohhh, okay. |
| 03:05.47 | redxdeath | findlay: unicode eh? |
| 03:05.53 | findlay | yup |
| 03:05.55 | findlay | (: |
| 03:05.59 | Lone_Wanderer | So, is this some kind of elaborate pseudo-troll? |
| 03:06.01 | elg | i thought the elves didn't want unicode |
| 03:06.07 | redxdeath | they don't |
| 03:06.15 | elg | they've been doing without for centuries, why should they get behind unicode? |
| 03:06.29 | Lone_Wanderer | The Elves are all dead, dude. They went into the west. |
| 03:06.35 | Lone_Wanderer | It's all Dwarves and Men now. |
| 03:06.48 | elg | the internet changed all that |
| 03:06.53 | elg | now we can talk with the west |
| 03:06.53 | redxdeath | I wish goblins could write code, that would rock |
| 03:06.59 | elg | they do every day |
| 03:07.05 | findlay | lol |
| 03:07.08 | Lone_Wanderer | oh cool |
| 03:07.08 | redxdeath | sweet |
| 03:07.09 | elg | where do you think microsoft comes from? |
| 03:07.17 | macnewbold | and the Numenorean kings - mostly like men, but partly like elves too |
| 03:07.18 | redxdeath | I KNEW IT! |
| 03:07.27 | redxdeath | Microsoft....... |
| 03:08.28 | findlay | ~1337 |
| 03:08.29 | ibot | somebody said 1337 was zwampy |
| 03:09.02 | findlay | ibot: I want a good example string |
| 03:09.04 | ibot | You want a good example string? |
| 03:09.22 | findlay | yes, so I can hold it up as an example of troll speak |
| 03:09.33 | Lone_Wanderer | redxdeath: I have an open source project you can work on with me if you want. |
| 03:12.16 | redxdeath | this is a lot of fun guys |
| 03:12.26 | redxdeath | fav distro of Linux? |
| 03:12.58 | Lone_Wanderer | FreeBSD. |
| 03:13.28 | redxdeath | That was fun one, I had that on my sever a while |
| 03:13.50 | redxdeath | (I like having Linux binaries on it though) |
| 03:14.31 | findlay | tene's fav is definitely LFS |
| 03:14.39 | findlay | and emcnabb loves gentoo |
| 03:15.37 | tene | totally |
| 03:15.46 | elg | great. my asterisk box at school randomly changed IP addresses and now I don't know how to get to it |
| 03:15.48 | tene | findlay always has reliable information |
| 03:15.56 | tene | elg: dyndns |
| 03:16.06 | elg | well that might be a solution tomorrow |
| 03:16.13 | Lone_Wanderer | au revoir mes ami |
| 03:16.14 | elg | but I'll be in the same room tomorrow so it's not a big issue |
| 03:16.16 | findlay | time for nmap |
| 03:16.28 | findlay | ~findlay elg's asterisk server |
| 03:16.30 | ibot | ACTION recreationally nmaps elg's asterisk server. |
| 03:17.06 | *** part/#utah redxdeath (n=Memphis@lre-east-1-22.usahousing.utah.edu) |
| 03:19.45 | elg | you need the ip to nmap |
| 03:21.56 | graphyx | just have him give a call to your "astrisk server" to test it out. |
| 03:22.10 | graphyx | Then you would have av IP to work with |
| 03:22.18 | elg | whom? |
| 03:22.27 | graphyx | findlay: |
| 03:22.44 | findlay | findlay? |
| 03:22.51 | graphyx | yes |
| 03:22.53 | elg | findlay& |
| 03:23.16 | graphyx | He could ask for help and ask you to call his system to sniff your IP |
| 03:23.31 | graphyx | prior to announcing his intention of attacking |
| 03:24.28 | findlay | but can elg even get calls in and out of his server? |
| 03:31.53 | elg | no siry |
| 03:31.59 | elg | no IP address remember? |
| 03:32.13 | tene | elg: you need an IP range |
| 03:32.20 | tene | just sniff for asterisk ports over the range |
| 03:32.36 | tene | it's not going to be in a completely different subnet, most likely |
| 03:38.03 | *** join/#utah mheath (n=mheath@c-76-23-104-208.hsd1.sc.comcast.net) |
| 03:41.03 | mheath | Wow. I'm going to be there for this "Utah Open Source Conference" |
| 03:51.52 | tensai | elg: why would it change ip addresses? isn't it more likely that it's not responding? |
| 04:05.12 | *** join/#utah nick125_lappy (n=nick@12.196.240.131) |
| 04:08.26 | nick125_lappy | hmm |
| 04:13.49 | mrpull-_ | ttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyLqUf4cdwc |
| 04:15.44 | nick125_lappy | Hahaha |
| 04:15.49 | nick125_lappy | LOL |
| 04:22.57 | *** join/#utah pmcnabb (n=peter@24.10.165.203) |
| 04:24.36 | nick125_lappy | mrpull-_: that is funny |
| 04:26.40 | findlay | tene: what does asterisk smell like? |
| 04:26.54 | tene | findlay: too easy |
| 04:26.59 | tene | you didn't try at all |
| 04:27.05 | tene | that's the best you could come up with? |
| 04:27.17 | findlay | too easy? |
| 04:27.28 | findlay | I would have thought it more well done |
| 04:28.03 | tene | I'm not responding until you come up with something more obscure. |
| 04:53.57 | tensai | less than an hour to closest approach to Jupiter by New Horizons |
| 04:58.40 | findlay | tensai: awesome |
| 04:59.05 | findlay | tensai: is that less than an hour out there, or less than an hour until we get results? (: |
| 04:59.35 | findlay | tene: but what does that have to do with the towers of Hanoi? |
| 04:59.49 | findlay | ~confuse tene |
| 04:59.53 | ibot | yes those was your bacon today ? |
| 05:03.29 | findlay | tensai: lets watch it live! |
| 05:03.43 | tensai | is there a live feed? |
| 05:03.51 | findlay | lol |
| 05:03.51 | tensai | our would we have to go to california? |
| 05:03.59 | tensai | s/our/or/ |
| 05:04.17 | findlay | tensai: the speed of light from here to Jupiter is like, what 4 hours? |
| 05:04.18 | tensai | -chat about bacon |
| 05:04.20 | brac | bacon is a broadcast which is my favorite rachmaninov is variations on a GUI for distribution |
| 05:05.27 | *** join/#utah Newsome (n=sorenson@adsl-75-0-136-70.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net) |
| 05:05.39 | findlay | 3o min |
| 05:06.22 | findlay | anywhere between 30 and about 70 min |
| 05:06.29 | tensai | findlay: it's only 5.46 AU from the sun, so 4.46 AU from earth |
| 05:06.49 | tensai | at 8 minutes per AU, that's about 40 minutes |
| 05:07.26 | findlay | tensai: but what if it's on the other side of the sun? |
| 05:07.32 | findlay | then you have to add another AU |
| 05:07.44 | tensai | oh, that's true |
| 05:08.10 | tensai | that's another 2 AU |
| 05:08.16 | findlay | right |
| 05:08.26 | findlay | at maximum |
| 05:08.40 | tensai | I think jupiter is actually at opposition right now |
| 05:13.12 | findlay | it looks like about pi/2 to me in kstars |
| 05:13.23 | tensai | findlay: it's 5.4 AU from the earth at of 0500 UTC |
| 05:14.22 | tensai | http://pluto.jhuapl.edu/mission/whereis_nh.php |
| 05:14.32 | findlay | and as we debate New Horizons slingshots fleetly about the Jovian planet |
| 05:20.03 | *** join/#utah tiwula (n=lane@208.64.90.18.utahbroadband.com) |
| 05:40.56 | tensai | 5 |
| 05:40.56 | tensai | 4 |
| 05:40.58 | tensai | 3 |
| 05:40.59 | tensai | 2 |
| 05:41.00 | tensai | 1 |
| 05:41.01 | tensai | closest jovian approach!!! |
| 05:41.32 | Supaplex | *yawn* |
| 05:41.46 | tensai | Supaplex: let's see *you* fly to jupiter |
| 05:42.11 | Supaplex | ↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑ |
| 06:02.30 | *** join/#utah Sargun (n=xbmodder@atarack/staff/sargun) |
| 08:13.56 | *** join/#utah findlay (n=justin@67.137.24.115) |
| 08:36.18 | *** join/#utah ti`ocpi (n=ti`ocpi@143-106.dynamicpool.suu.edu) |
| 08:59.01 | *** join/#utah jnbek (n=jnbek@c-24-10-178-17.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 09:56.44 | *** join/#utah jnbek (n=jnbek@c-24-10-178-17.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 09:56.44 | *** join/#utah findlay (n=justin@67.137.24.115) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 09:56.44 | *** join/#utah synic (n=squish@64.251.22.233) |
| 09:56.53 | *** join/#utah synic (n=squish@64.251.22.233) |
| 10:07.13 | *** join/#utah synic (n=squish@64.251.22.233) |
| 10:07.13 | *** join/#utah jnbek (n=jnbek@c-24-10-178-17.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 10:07.13 | *** join/#utah findlay (n=justin@67.137.24.115) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 10:18.45 | *** join/#utah mheath (n=mheath@c-76-23-104-208.hsd1.sc.comcast.net) |
| 11:47.36 | *** join/#utah graphyx (n=graphyx@205.208.245.105) |
| 13:31.03 | *** join/#utah graphyx (n=graphyx@205.208.245.105) |
| 13:51.30 | elg | tensai: it's on dhcp |
| 13:51.46 | elg | most likely got a different address |
| 13:51.58 | elg | the ip it was on responds to ping now but not to ssh |
| 13:52.37 | nick125_lappy | morning everyone |
| 13:52.57 | *** join/#utah nick125_lappy (n=nick@12.196.240.131) |
| 13:54.15 | elg | re good morning |
| 13:59.42 | nick125_lappy | elg: How's it going? |
| 13:59.52 | elg | gonna be windy today |
| 14:00.02 | elg | blowing dust and possibly gusting to 60mph |
| 14:00.09 | nick125_lappy | ah, that's great |
| 14:00.23 | elg | i'll be inside all day |
| 14:00.38 | elg | setting up my asterisk demo, doing homework, going to class, etc. |
| 14:00.51 | elg | i think I'll skip the walk to school. I'll take the bus |
| 14:00.54 | nick125_lappy | We (as in my family) have to drive back to albuquerque |
| 14:01.07 | elg | where are you now? |
| 14:01.14 | nick125_lappy | las cruces, nm |
| 14:01.27 | elg | oh that's where I am. what are you doing in cruces? |
| 14:01.38 | elg | enjoying the wind? |
| 14:01.40 | elg | -metar klru |
| 14:02.41 | elg | -weather klru |
| 14:02.49 | elg | brac, are you there? |
| 14:02.49 | brac | you best check yo'self! |
| 14:02.56 | elg | ~weather klru |
| 14:02.59 | elg | stupid nws |
| 14:04.38 | nick125_lappy | elg: My grandmother had to go to court to testify on something.. |
| 14:04.38 | elg | not against the riaa I hope. have a fun drive back |
| 14:04.52 | nick125_lappy | elg: Haha |
| 14:05.26 | nick125_lappy | I still don't get exactly why they filed the case in las cruces.. |
| 14:06.41 | nick125_lappy | Everyone (including the plaintiff) lives in albuquerque |
| 14:08.57 | goozbach | good mornign |
| 15:09.17 | graphyx | elg: Can you explain what mock theta functions are and why they matter? |
| 15:15.39 | *** join/#utah wps (n=wps@67.108.236.230.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 15:19.06 | graphyx | (9:09:17 AM) graphyx: elg: Can you explain what mock theta functions are and why they matter? |
| 15:19.06 | graphyx | (9:13:03 AM) elg left the room (quit: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). |
| 15:19.18 | graphyx | I think I just DoSed elg |
| 15:31.13 | QBFreak | I have a customer who's laptop and router work beautifully here at the store, but more often than not the next day at home his connection goes out |
| 15:31.30 | tensai | gremlins |
| 15:31.33 | QBFreak | seriously |
| 15:31.47 | QBFreak | ignoring the ISP, I'm running out of ideas |
| 15:31.58 | redbeard1 | otto! there's a gremlin on the side of the bus! |
| 15:32.11 | graphyx | QBFreak: What store do you work at/own? |
| 15:32.37 | QBFreak | I work at a little computer shop several states away from Utah :) |
| 15:32.51 | tensai | QBFreak: does he have good power at home? |
| 15:33.00 | QBFreak | hmm, excelent question |
| 15:33.05 | graphyx | QBFreak: Where? |
| 15:33.29 | QBFreak | Central Carolina Computers, Monroe, NC (just east of Charlotte) |
| 15:33.39 | graphyx | Ok |
| 15:33.48 | graphyx | yeah a couple states indeed. |
| 15:33.57 | graphyx | Teach him how to ping the router |
| 15:34.11 | graphyx | And show him how to use the ping on the router to ping out |
| 15:34.19 | QBFreak | I thought about setting up a timed task to do that and record the results, but the boss is about to say take it and don't ocme back |
| 15:34.39 | graphyx | If he can always ping the router and has issues with it pinging out blame it on the ISP. ;) |
| 15:34.44 | redbeard1 | NC? i have a couple of friends out there |
| 15:37.08 | *** join/#utah tiwula (n=lane@208.64.90.18.utahbroadband.com) |
| 15:37.50 | graphyx | perfect |
| 15:38.13 | graphyx | Have it say, I can talk to the router but not the modem. |
| 15:38.24 | graphyx | try resetting router/modem |
| 15:46.28 | QBFreak | aha, he just called, apparently he was on the phone with the ISP today and they couldn't ping his modem this time |
| 15:46.53 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@dhcp08.cs.nmsu.edu) |
| 15:47.02 | graphyx | Vindicated!!! |
| 15:47.09 | elg | ~help onjoi |
| 15:47.14 | elg | ~help onjoin |
| 15:47.45 | graphyx | (9:09:17 AM) graphyx: elg: Can you explain what mock theta functions are and why they matter? |
| 15:47.45 | graphyx | (9:13:03 AM) elg left the room (quit: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). |
| 15:47.45 | graphyx | (9:19:17 AM) graphyx: I think I just DoSed elg |
| 15:48.05 | graphyx | Replayed for elgs amusement. |
| 15:48.44 | elg | sorry, irssi doesn't recognize whatever signs osx emits that the laptop is about to go to sleep or is waking up, so i linger when I'm not here and sometimes takes a few minutes to reconnect when I am |
| 15:48.58 | graphyx | its ok |
| 15:49.03 | graphyx | I thought it was funny |
| 15:49.13 | graphyx | more than anything else |
| 15:49.35 | elg | that and I have no idea what mock theta functions are:) |
| 15:49.50 | QBFreak | don't they make fun of real theta functions? |
| 15:49.53 | graphyx | I thought you were a math buff |
| 15:49.58 | elg | jacob is |
| 15:50.03 | elg | i'm just good enough to get by |
| 15:50.12 | elg | in a fairly math-heavy field |
| 15:50.18 | graphyx | who is jacob? |
| 15:50.30 | elg | and by good enough I mean I can either do it or I can talk jacob into helping me |
| 15:50.31 | elg | my brother |
| 15:50.48 | graphyx | Ok, I suppose I should have asked what his handle is. |
| 15:52.10 | *** join/#utah neybar (n=jalance@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 15:52.53 | elg | lukfugl |
| 15:54.48 | graphyx | Ok |
| 16:11.59 | *** join/#utah beandog (n=sdibb@gentoo/developer/beandog) |
| 16:25.08 | *** join/#utah harleypig (n=harleypi@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 16:26.24 | *** join/#utah TimRiker (n=timr@216.49.181.128) |
| 16:26.24 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 16:38.07 | herlo | Jayce^: ping |
| 16:38.48 | redbeard1 | from Jayce^: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=412195&in_page_id=17 |
| 16:38.50 | brac | [Tesco condemned for selling pole dancing toy | the Daily Mail] |
| 16:40.02 | elg | ~dance |
| 16:40.05 | ibot | ACTION <("<) <('_')> (>")> Dance Kirby Dance! |
| 16:40.06 | Jayce^ | herlo, pong |
| 16:40.52 | levi | redbeard1: Heh, that's been around for a while. And no one reads the Daily Mail. ;) |
| 16:41.08 | elg | ~dance |
| 16:41.10 | ibot | ACTION <("<) <('_')> (>")> Dance Kirby Dance! |
| 16:41.15 | elg | well that's dumb |
| 16:42.19 | findlay | -chat about when everything is coming up |
| 16:42.20 | brac | okay |
| 16:42.20 | brac | incorrect usage, ask for help using 'brac: help chat' |
| 16:42.27 | findlay | -chat about when everything |
| 16:42.28 | brac | when everything is coming from a life like that. Maybe that's the life that goo just stole and gives it to give me a laptop, and it doesn't surprise me |
| 16:43.02 | elg | ibot, no dance is <action> does a pole dance with the Peekabo Pole Dance Kit |
| 16:43.03 | ibot | elg: okay |
| 16:43.35 | findlay | ibot: dancing is of the devil |
| 16:43.36 | ibot | okay, findlay |
| 16:44.03 | harleypig | ibot: When you dance with the devil, the devil leads. |
| 16:44.21 | graphyx | -chat about dancing is |
| 16:44.21 | brac | dancing is of lines I specify? |
| 16:44.37 | graphyx | -chat about dancing is |
| 16:44.38 | brac | dancing is of course that has changed, although I don't agree with you was blind |
| 16:44.43 | harleypig | ibot, devil? |
| 16:44.46 | ibot | <Kathie Lee Gifford> I've come for harleypig's sole |
| 16:44.52 | harleypig | :> |
| 16:45.47 | graphyx | What you need is a 2nd shift job. |
| 16:46.06 | graphyx | Like pizza delivery until you can find something better |
| 16:46.10 | graphyx | You can do this |
| 16:46.16 | graphyx | Get a beeter car |
| 16:46.26 | graphyx | Deliver pizza car |
| 16:46.38 | graphyx | and have a for sale sign on the beeter car |
| 16:46.41 | graphyx | until it sells. |
| 16:46.51 | graphyx | And then get a slightly better car |
| 16:47.21 | *** join/#utah Lone_Wanderer (n=chatzill@cg.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 16:47.45 | graphyx | please ignore the previous lines it was a wrong window situation. |
| 16:48.18 | graphyx | -chat about what you |
| 16:48.19 | brac | what you want with the Treo more than anything with an old belkin router...) |
| 16:48.32 | Lone_Wanderer | -chat about what is |
| 16:48.33 | brac | what is addslashes ... or maybe it isn't the device, and you've just got done in proving that programs are supposed to know. dns queries were timing out. |
| 16:48.46 | Lone_Wanderer | -coffee talk |
| 16:48.56 | levi | Hmm, looks like PLUG is tired of language discussion. |
| 16:49.11 | Lone_Wanderer | Someone needs to tell brac that -coffee talk means to give us a random subject to discuss amongst ourselves. |
| 16:49.39 | Lone_Wanderer | Maybe just have him hit the random wikipedia page. |
| 16:54.50 | elg | you're on it |
| 17:01.26 | Lone_Wanderer | Who's on what? |
| 17:01.32 | Lone_Wanderer | Third base? |
| 17:03.55 | findlay | Lone_Wanderer: I don't know |
| 17:09.54 | harleypig | *mumble* |
| 17:14.36 | elg | ~mumble |
| 17:14.41 | ibot | extra, extra, read all about it, mumble is interj. 1. Said when the correct response is too complicated to enunciate, or the speaker has not thought it out. Often prefaces a longer answer, or indicates a general reluctance to get into a long discussion. "Don't you think that we could improve LISP performance by using a hybrid reference-count transaction garbage ... |
| 17:15.15 | *** join/#utah jsmith (n=jsmith@h46056c68.area3.spcsdns.net) |
| 17:34.24 | *** join/#utah bonez39 (n=bonez@drjones.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 17:41.27 | *** join/#utah Robdor (n=Robdor@208.187.198.179) |
| 17:46.40 | tensai | I stand by my claim: NAT sucks |
| 17:46.53 | macnewbold | preachin' to the choir, friend |
| 17:46.54 | tensai | always |
| 17:47.09 | tensai | sjansen was arguing with me about it once |
| 17:47.15 | tensai | but he's a looney |
| 17:47.39 | findlay | I want ipv6 |
| 17:52.39 | herlo | ~order ipv6 for findlay |
| 17:53.46 | findlay | sweet |
| 17:54.22 | herlo | findlay: that will take 5-7 eons... |
| 17:56.04 | findlay | ): |
| 17:56.41 | findlay | I say we build a new, grassroots intarwebs and use ipv8 |
| 17:57.16 | findlay | and let the old establishment falter in their smug irrelevance |
| 18:01.05 | *** join/#utah neybar (n=jalance@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 18:06.11 | Lone_Wanderer | I think IP version numbers should increase exponentially. |
| 18:06.38 | Lone_Wanderer | To the third power for each successive generation after 6. |
| 18:07.12 | levi | This is cool news: http://db.tidbits.com/article/8886 |
| 18:13.15 | harleypig | Does anyone know of a text mode browser that fully supports javascript, cookies and is scriptable? |
| 18:14.52 | *** join/#utah tristanbob (i=tristanb@oalug/member/tristanbob) |
| 18:16.54 | beandog | elinks, maybe. |
| 18:17.00 | findlay | harleypig: does elinks2 work |
| 18:17.01 | beandog | I think it supports javascript |
| 18:17.16 | findlay | that's the most advanced text browser that I've seen |
| 18:18.31 | harleypig | Thanks. I knew about elinks, but haven't had enough success to do what I need to. |
| 18:18.32 | Lone_Wanderer | How do you insert after the current character in vim? |
| 18:18.37 | harleypig | I'll look into elinks2 |
| 18:18.58 | harleypig | Lone_Wanderer: a |
| 18:19.03 | Lone_Wanderer | thanks |
| 18:19.15 | harleypig | Welcome |
| 18:19.19 | *** join/#utah Newsome (n=sorenson@adsl-68-22-220-206.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net) |
| 18:21.19 | harleypig | findlay: Do you have a link for elinks2 ? |
| 18:29.43 | levi | Wow, a 3d modeling program written in Erlang. |
| 18:30.22 | Lone_Wanderer | Why would you write such a program in Erlang? |
| 18:30.42 | levi | I don't know, but someone did. |
| 18:32.18 | levi | http://www.wings3d.com/ |
| 18:32.20 | brac | [Wings 3d] |
| 18:34.08 | Lone_Wanderer | Okay, learning a new language is officially frustrating. |
| 18:34.45 | levi | Heh. What are you trying to learn? |
| 18:35.22 | nick125_lappy | bbl everyone.. |
| 18:35.25 | graphyx | jsmith: ping |
| 18:35.34 | jsmith | graphyx: Pong |
| 18:35.47 | Lone_Wanderer | Well, Django. |
| 18:36.02 | Lone_Wanderer | Which is frustrating because I don't know Python and I'm trying to just jump right into it instead of Learning it. |
| 18:36.18 | levi | Lone_Wanderer: Well, Python is one of the easier languages to do that with, at least. |
| 18:36.19 | tensai | yeah, I've used wings3d before |
| 18:36.43 | levi | Lone_Wanderer: I thought you were going to write a MUD. ;) |
| 18:36.53 | macnewbold | Lone_Wanderer: I've got a python quick reference book around here somewhere, if you want |
| 18:49.12 | graphyx | elg: What is your email that you use with linkedin? |
| 18:50.29 | elg | dunno |
| 18:50.31 | elg | gmail maybe? |
| 18:51.39 | emcnabb | http://worsethanfailure.com/Articles/A_Really_Really_Phat_Pipe.aspx |
| 18:57.26 | levi | Hmm. C'mon, that's hardly worth a post to wtf. |
| 19:07.43 | emcnabb | I thought it was funny |
| 19:08.38 | levi | It's using a RESTful API to draw the graph, which, unfortunately, leaves it open to silly abuse like that. |
| 19:10.03 | *** join/#utah nick125- (n=ndevito@m0b0e36d0.tmodns.net) |
| 19:14.54 | elg | sigh |
| 19:15.24 | elg | inlaws computer running debian with auto openvpn |
| 19:15.35 | elg | I ssh in and set up the wireless usb thing so they can move it upstairs |
| 19:15.48 | elg | works great. let's try a reboot and make sure it comes up ok |
| 19:16.15 | elg | x won't start. eth0 disappeared. it appears lots of kernel modules fail to load with unknown symbol |
| 19:16.22 | elg | and basically it's all screwy. why me? |
| 19:16.28 | *** join/#utah jNb3k (n=jNb3k@c-24-10-178-17.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 19:16.45 | nick125- | elg: its a conspiracy by the government |
| 19:17.56 | emcnabb | elg: debian? |
| 19:18.21 | elg | emcnabb: redhat? |
| 19:18.22 | elg | :) |
| 19:18.38 | nick125- | elg: how dare you say that word? |
| 19:19.02 | elg | pinkhat |
| 19:19.19 | nick125- | greenhat! |
| 19:19.34 | nick125- | rainbowhat! |
| 19:49.33 | maquis | blackhat! |
| 19:51.03 | levi | Why are we only differentiating hats on a single axis? Surely hat shape is just as important as hat size. |
| 19:51.12 | levi | Er, hat color. |
| 19:51.19 | levi | Instead of size. |
| 19:51.19 | jsmith | levi: Fedora? |
| 19:51.37 | levi | jsmith: I'm wearing a white baseball cap right now. |
| 19:52.34 | levi | Though I often wear a tan ivy cap. |
| 19:52.45 | jsmith | Green Beret? |
| 19:52.50 | levi | I never wear fedoras. |
| 19:52.54 | jsmith | Yellow sombrero? |
| 19:53.54 | levi | I need a sombrero right now so I can take a siesta. |
| 19:58.55 | redbeard1 | my wife has a sombrero |
| 19:59.06 | redbeard1 | it's pretty extreme |
| 20:00.59 | Jayce^ | hey, hovering sombrero.. |
| 20:06.04 | redbeard1 | man, it's so loud in here |
| 20:08.54 | Jayce^ | good songs |
| 20:30.09 | tensai | I've got a black and white knit beret that is awesome. looks like a bullseye |
| 20:33.46 | *** join/#utah hagna (n=nate@70.98.162.62) |
| 20:34.20 | hagna | what is the textbook for stat 322 at byu? |
| 20:34.24 | Lone_Wanderer | If I want holes precision cut into an Altoids tin, is there a place around I can take it that will do that for me? |
| 20:35.00 | *** join/#utah sjansen (n=sjansen@class1-nat.gurulabs.com) |
| 20:36.38 | tensai | ~x en pt sjansen |
| 20:39.54 | SpecialZ | I want a Fedora. |
| 20:40.11 | Lone_Wanderer | Is anyone here familiar with Wolf Electronix? |
| 20:40.13 | QBFreak | whoops, I accidentally dropped the laptop and bent the end of the wireless card |
| 20:40.18 | QBFreak | and yet it still works just fine :) |
| 20:46.17 | levi | Lone_Wanderer: Somewhat familiar with them. |
| 20:46.41 | levi | Lone_Wanderer: We used them as a contract manufacturer to build a product I worked on. |
| 20:46.47 | Lone_Wanderer | cool |
| 20:46.54 | Lone_Wanderer | I want to put my ipod inside an altoids tin |
| 20:47.07 | Lone_Wanderer | and have holes in it so that I can plug in headphones and push the buttons |
| 20:47.22 | Lone_Wanderer | would they be able to cut the holes? |
| 20:47.35 | levi | That I don't know. |
| 20:47.44 | Lone_Wanderer | k |
| 20:47.49 | Lone_Wanderer | someone recommended them for soldering something |
| 20:47.58 | levi | Yeah, I know they could do that. |
| 20:48.05 | SpecialZ | They'd ahve to smooth the edges around the clickwheel |
| 20:48.13 | Lone_Wanderer | I'd rather do it myself but I don't have the tools, or even know what tools I'd need to make precision cuts like that. |
| 20:48.56 | Lone_Wanderer | I suppose I could just make really rough cuts at first and then smooth them down with a file, but that'd probably warp the tin in the process. |
| 20:50.26 | *** join/#utah jnbek (n=jnbek@c-24-10-178-17.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 20:50.42 | Lone_Wanderer | Woah. Someone on makezine has a thread about putting a nano into an altoids tin. |
| 20:51.40 | redbeard1 | Lone_Wanderer, are you daniel c? |
| 20:51.52 | Lone_Wanderer | Why? |
| 20:52.05 | Lone_Wanderer | Oh, post on Plug. Right. Yes I am. |
| 20:52.38 | redbeard1 | and there's nobody stranger than me |
| 20:52.49 | redbeard1 | actually, this is probably the wrong place to claim that |
| 20:53.28 | harleypig | redbeard1: no, no, that's all right. You can claim to be the wierdest here. |
| 20:53.42 | Lone_Wanderer | But talk is cheap. |
| 20:53.46 | redbeard1 | Lone_Wanderer, do you need to borrow my dremel? |
| 20:53.56 | Lone_Wanderer | Yes. |
| 20:54.10 | redbeard1 | are you anywhere near orem? |
| 20:54.16 | Lone_Wanderer | I can be. I'm in SLC. |
| 20:55.09 | redbeard1 | we're kind of stuck in orem for a little while, it's rsv season, so we're not supposed to take the kid out anymore than we have to |
| 20:55.22 | redbeard1 | but if you want to come pick it up, you're more than welcome to borrow my dremel |
| 20:55.22 | Lone_Wanderer | rsv? |
| 20:55.27 | Lone_Wanderer | cool |
| 20:55.56 | redbeard1 | rsv == some kind of respritory (sp?) disease that infants are particularly susceptable to |
| 20:56.09 | Lone_Wanderer | ahhh |
| 20:57.05 | Lone_Wanderer | Not sure when I'll be able to pick it up. My GF is more or less in charge of my evenings these days. |
| 20:57.25 | redbeard1 | heh. i remember those days. |
| 20:58.32 | Jayce^ | redbeard1, it's bad stuff, best to keep people at a distance like they suggest |
| 20:59.04 | Lone_Wanderer | Your son/daughter has rsv? :( |
| 20:59.07 | redbeard1 | Jayce^, yeah, we've been pretty careful about it. |
| 21:04.58 | goozbach | Lone_Wanderer: you don't want a dremel, you want a water cutter |
| 21:05.07 | Lone_Wanderer | okay? |
| 21:05.13 | Lone_Wanderer | what's a water cutter? |
| 21:05.43 | sjansen | ~shave redbeard1 |
| 21:05.48 | ibot | ACTION grabs the razor & shaving cream & chases redbeard1 until he sees TheRedBaron... then grabs TheRedbaron & dry shaves TheRedBaron from head to toe! |
| 21:05.48 | goozbach | find someone whith a water cutter (machine shops, vocational centers at high schools, etc) |
| 21:05.55 | Lone_Wanderer | k |
| 21:06.28 | goozbach | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_jet_cutter |
| 21:08.03 | Lone_Wanderer | I bet UVSC has got one. |
| 21:10.09 | goozbach | Lone_Wanderer: http://listings.waterjets.org/ |
| 21:10.11 | brac | [waterjet and abrasivejet Job-shops in the USA and around the world] |
| 21:10.18 | Lone_Wanderer | ooohh, thanks :) |
| 21:10.33 | goozbach | http://listings.waterjets.org/Listings/Job-shops/Utah.html even better |
| 21:10.35 | brac | [waterjet and abrasivejet Job-shops in Utah] |
| 21:17.27 | Lone_Wanderer | $55 for Precision H2O to cut it for me. That's their minimum charge. |
| 21:17.45 | *** join/#utah mheath (n=mheath@c-76-23-104-208.hsd1.sc.comcast.net) |
| 21:18.47 | goozbach | that's not too bad actually. |
| 21:18.51 | Lone_Wanderer | yeah |
| 21:24.28 | Lone_Wanderer | Now I just need the buttons. |
| 21:24.42 | Lone_Wanderer | Oh well, since I'm on lunch I'd better go actually eat something. |
| 21:29.43 | atoponce | if i have an existing png image that is a graph, can a smooth (antialias) the lines af the graph with imagemagick? if so, what should i look for? |
| 21:33.37 | mheath | Grrr. |
| 21:33.49 | mheath | I hate when I find some company that won't deal with me because I'm still 17. |
| 21:33.57 | atoponce | i should look for 'Grrr'? |
| 21:34.25 | sjansen | The only way I know of to smooth an existing raster image is to shrink it. Be sure to use high quality (usually bi-cubic), not fastest. |
| 21:34.53 | sjansen | Frankly, it'd be better if you could get a vector version of the graph. |
| 21:35.12 | atoponce | hmmm. that's a good idea. |
| 21:36.05 | sjansen | atoponce: set terminal svg |
| 21:36.11 | atoponce | then, to display on a website, convert the svg to png (or whatever) using imagemagick should "smooth" the image? |
| 21:36.15 | atoponce | sjansen: cool |
| 21:37.04 | sjansen | Give it a try. Unfortunately, SVG support is spotty in most programs. You may have to try a few before finding the perfect app. |
| 21:37.35 | sjansen | ImageMagick, Inkscape, Adobe Illustrator |
| 21:37.59 | sjansen | Batik, K-something-or-other |
| 21:38.23 | atoponce | pythonmagick i think will work well for what i'm needing |
| 21:38.48 | atoponce | sjansen: thx for the heads up. working on it now, and we'll see how it turns out |
| 21:40.36 | mheath | Apparently I'm too young to invest my own money.. |
| 21:40.47 | mheath | ~lart USAA |
| 21:42.56 | mheath | Question: Online Forms only give two lines for address |
| 21:42.57 | Lone_Wanderer | Actually, mheath, you are in fact too young to invest your own money. |
| 21:43.18 | mheath | My address requires three lines |
| 21:43.25 | mheath | Whats the correct way to enter it? |
| 21:43.30 | mheath | Lone_Wanderer, Wrong. |
| 21:43.34 | Lone_Wanderer | Put the last two lines onto the second one. |
| 21:43.59 | Lone_Wanderer | Lone_Wanderer, Right. mheath is only 17, which is one year younger than that required, under US law, to enter into a legally binding contract. |
| 21:44.11 | mheath | And some guy was trying to sell us government bonds today |
| 21:44.23 | mheath | Lone_Wanderer, I'm active duty US military |
| 21:44.32 | Lone_Wanderer | That doesn't make you a year older, does it? |
| 21:44.33 | mheath | I am legally an adult |
| 21:44.39 | mheath | And I am legally able to enter into contracts |
| 21:45.09 | mheath | What really made me upset was how much that phone call turned into a sales call |
| 21:45.33 | mheath | She tried to get me to sign up for a Roth IRA ("Well, I can't set up a standard invest account, but I can set up a Roth IRA for you....would you like me to do that?") |
| 21:45.48 | Lone_Wanderer | There, now you have a place to rant ;) |
| 21:46.15 | levi | But then none of us would see it, and that wouldn't be very satisfying for him. |
| 21:46.51 | Lone_Wanderer | I actually have my own LJ, which I rant on regularly. |
| 21:47.31 | mheath | I just really wanted to get my financial stuff setup and out of the way this week. |
| 21:47.40 | mheath | I will have no free time starting next week. |
| 21:48.11 | atoponce | afaik, you can't get a loan until you're 18 |
| 21:48.42 | atoponce | and 17 is still a minor. you are not an adult, although you can be tried as one in a court of law |
| 21:49.10 | atoponce | 17 will get you 20, if you've heard that |
| 21:49.22 | mheath | Uh |
| 21:49.24 | Lone_Wanderer | Yeah but it wasn't in that context. |
| 21:49.31 | atoponce | i know |
| 21:49.35 | Lone_Wanderer | That phrase means that sleeping with a 17 year old will... okay. |
| 21:49.36 | mheath | atoponce: I am legally able to enter into contracts. |
| 21:49.40 | atoponce | Lone_Wanderer: right |
| 21:49.55 | atoponce | mheath: *some* contracts |
| 21:50.04 | mheath | I am legally responsible for myself. My dad is not legally responsible for me. |
| 21:50.22 | Lone_Wanderer | That doesn't mean you can enter into contracts though. |
| 21:50.29 | mheath | But, this is irrelevent |
| 21:50.35 | mheath | Why does a mutual fund purchase require a contract? |
| 21:51.00 | atoponce | a job contract you can enter in |
| 21:51.00 | mheath | I am buying stock. |
| 21:51.00 | mheath | Thats all it is. |
| 21:51.27 | atoponce | that's all i can think of, actually, for under 18 |
| 21:51.37 | Lone_Wanderer | Because a mutual fund is not just buying stock. You're agreeing to let someone manage your money, and putting it into an investment pool with other people in the same fund. |
| 21:51.50 | Lone_Wanderer | And that involves a legally binding contract. |
| 21:52.09 | mheath | I can do that with other funds. |
| 21:52.14 | mheath | Why not mutual funds/ |
| 21:52.23 | mheath | I mean, I have money in the TSP L fund |
| 21:52.27 | Lone_Wanderer | What kind of funds? |
| 21:52.35 | mheath | Which is identical to a mutual fund |
| 21:52.44 | Lone_Wanderer | If it's identical it'd be called a mutual fund. |
| 21:53.03 | Lone_Wanderer | And it's not identical. A TSP L fund is a retirement fund. |
| 21:53.19 | mheath | Well, the only difference in that, in addition to investing your money in mutual funds, it also splits some of it into bond funds and a few other categories. |
| 21:53.21 | Lone_Wanderer | Whereas a mutual fund is not specifically earmarked for retirement. |
| 21:53.49 | mheath | Lone_Wanderer: TSP L still has the exact same kind of management that your saying a Mutual Fund has |
| 21:54.03 | Lone_Wanderer | But the agreement goes through your employer - in this case, the government. |
| 21:54.24 | Lone_Wanderer | So you have an employment contract, and your employer has the TSP L fund contract. Not you. |
| 21:54.38 | atoponce | bingo |
| 21:56.59 | mheath | So I can get loans, insurance, enter into cell phone and cable contracts, buy bonds, legally represent myself yet....can't get mutual funds. |
| 21:57.08 | Lone_Wanderer | How did you get a loan? |
| 21:57.13 | atoponce | you can't get a loan |
| 21:57.15 | mheath | Through my credit union. |
| 21:57.26 | Lone_Wanderer | You were the only signer on the loan? |
| 21:57.29 | mheath | Yes. |
| 21:57.38 | atoponce | what is the loan? |
| 21:57.44 | Lone_Wanderer | What CU? |
| 21:57.57 | mheath | atoponce, A small signature loan I used for a computer. |
| 21:58.00 | Lone_Wanderer | It may be that there's a special status for minors enlisted in the military. |
| 21:58.02 | mheath | Lone_Wanderer, Navy Federal. |
| 21:58.55 | Lone_Wanderer | Crazy. |
| 21:59.06 | atoponce | mheath: so, a student loan. through the government. |
| 21:59.11 | mheath | No. |
| 21:59.17 | mheath | A signature loan through my credit union |
| 21:59.23 | Lone_Wanderer | It doesn't sound like it was a student loan. |
| 22:00.52 | Lone_Wanderer | It sounds like there's a special status (which neither I nor the mutual fund lady is aware of) that applies only to enlisted minors. |
| 22:00.56 | atoponce | i guess the governmont is willing to to offer some adult services to minors at the expense of working for them |
| 22:01.01 | atoponce | which i don't understand |
| 22:01.52 | Lone_Wanderer | mheath: your CU should be able to provide you with various mutual funds, if they provided those other things |
| 22:02.06 | *** join/#utah [phoenyx] (n=tthorley@64.147.152.13) |
| 22:02.15 | Lone_Wanderer | might not be exactly the same as what you'd get through another place, but index funds are pretty much all the same |
| 22:02.18 | mheath | No. Investment Management companies provide mutual funds. Not credit unions. |
| 22:02.29 | atoponce | but, as is probably the case with the unsecured signature loan, there are probably more drastic consequences if the contract is not adhered to |
| 22:02.46 | mheath | I'm just going to wait until I'm 18 |
| 22:02.51 | mheath | Which is just a few months off |
| 22:02.58 | mheath | I just really wanted to get my finances squared away |
| 22:03.07 | mheath | because starting next week, I am going to have _no_ free time. |
| 22:03.46 | maquis | ... |
| 22:03.55 | *** part/#utah [phoenyx] (n=tthorley@64.147.152.13) |
| 22:04.02 | Lone_Wanderer | hi maquis |
| 22:04.31 | maquis | Lone_Wanderer: hi |
| 22:05.16 | mheath | They've got me so worked up about these classes |
| 22:05.25 | mheath | I'm really nervous |
| 22:05.36 | mheath | My roommate started this week |
| 22:05.57 | mheath | He's had to put in about 4 hours of study time a night |
| 22:06.21 | mheath | Out the door at 6AM, doesn't get done with school until 9PM |
| 22:06.30 | mheath | That kind of schedule is going to drive me insane... |
| 22:07.14 | Lone_Wanderer | Hey, you picked the MOS :p |
| 22:07.50 | mheath | I found out the guy lied to me about college credits too |
| 22:08.12 | Lone_Wanderer | The recruiter? |
| 22:08.14 | mheath | He said I'd come out of training about 15 credits short of a bachelors degree in Nuclear Engineering Technology |
| 22:08.24 | mheath | Lone_Wanderer, No, the Nuclear Field coordinator up at RTC Great Lakes |
| 22:08.38 | Lone_Wanderer | oh |
| 22:08.41 | Lone_Wanderer | weird |
| 22:08.56 | mheath | Turns out I come out 5 credits short of an _AS_ in "Applied Science & Technology in Nuclear Engineering Technology" |
| 22:09.28 | mheath | or an "AA with a Professional Focus in Nuclear Technology" |
| 22:09.57 | mheath | (Depending on which horrible online college I go to; none of the real, mainstream universities will accept all of the credits) |
| 22:11.42 | harleypig | Is anyone famliar with gdome2 ? |
| 22:12.19 | atoponce | nay. haven't even heard of it... |
| 22:13.46 | levi | Apparently, minors can enter into contracts all they want to, and they are legal contracts. However, the minor may choose to void the contract, which makes people reluctant to offer them. |
| 22:13.58 | levi | However, there are some situations in which contracts with minors cannot be voided. |
| 22:14.04 | mheath | levi: Like mine |
| 22:14.21 | levi | These are typically sports/entertainment contracts, or contracts for 'necessities'. |
| 22:14.38 | harleypig | atoponce: It's a dom parser |
| 22:14.40 | mheath | Under the UCMJ, I am responsible for all legal and financial obligations. IE, can't void those contracts. |
| 22:15.22 | mheath | be back in a few minutes, running over to the NEX to pick up dry cleaning and grab some groceries. |
| 22:15.24 | levi | Well, not without risking the wrath of a court martial. |
| 22:15.37 | mheath | Not court martial. Just Captain's Mast. |
| 22:15.44 | mheath | And losing my security clearance |
| 22:16.04 | harleypig | Permanently |
| 22:16.18 | mheath | Captain's Mast = Non-Judicial Punishment. |
| 22:16.19 | mheath | Er |
| 22:16.32 | mheath | Well, "Captain's Mast" just means your going to see the Commanding Officer in a formal manner |
| 22:16.42 | mheath | but 99% of the time that means, Non-Judicial Punishment. |
| 22:16.47 | Lone_Wanderer | So it's like going to see the principal? |
| 22:17.07 | Lone_Wanderer | And you'll have to spend recess for the next week indoors wiping off desks? |
| 22:17.21 | levi | Whatever; it may not be sufficient to entice a potential offerer of a contract to offer it to a minor. |
| 22:17.33 | mheath | Yeah. A Principal that can garnish your wages, assign you to extra duty, demote you, and write stuff that screws over your career and the rest of your life. |
| 22:18.18 | mheath | levi: It is legally obligating. And the company I'm dealing with is one that deals exclusively with the military. You'd think they'd be more familiar with someone in my situation |
| 22:18.22 | Lone_Wanderer | Only if you remain a US citizen. ;) |
| 22:18.24 | mheath | Enlisting at 17 is relatively common |
| 22:18.47 | mheath | Lone_Wanderer, Leaving the country won't help. :P |
| 22:18.54 | mheath | SOFAs prevent that from helping |
| 22:19.01 | harleypig | I joined up at 17 |
| 22:19.03 | Lone_Wanderer | I didn't say to just leave the country. I said to change citizenship. |
| 22:19.25 | mheath | Unless I was to go to some odd place like North Korea or something. |
| 22:19.25 | Lone_Wanderer | Try Brazil. |
| 22:19.26 | harleypig | Iraq |
| 22:19.28 | Lone_Wanderer | Last I checked they don't have an extradition treaty with us. |
| 22:19.29 | mheath | Lone_Wanderer, Can't do that in a legally acceptable manner. That constitutes desertion. |
| 22:19.38 | mheath | (Which I can legally be shot for, IIRC) |
| 22:19.44 | Lone_Wanderer | Well, if you're renouncing your citizenship anyway, who cares? |
| 22:19.44 | levi | mheath: IANAL, so I couldn't say how the standard law interacts with the military law in this case. Perhaps my dad would know, though. |
| 22:19.53 | emcnabb | ~shoot mheath |
| 22:19.57 | ibot | ACTION shoots mheath in the head with a frozen turkey cannon! |
| 22:20.03 | mheath | Lone_Wanderer, Not extradition. SOFA. |
| 22:20.10 | mheath | SOFA stuff is seperate from standard etradition laws |
| 22:20.11 | Lone_Wanderer | What's SOFA? |
| 22:20.15 | Lone_Wanderer | ohhh |
| 22:20.18 | mheath | Status of Forces Agreement |
| 22:20.26 | levi | It's like a couch. |
| 22:20.32 | Lone_Wanderer | Only in the military. |
| 22:20.35 | levi | Yeah. |
| 22:20.44 | mheath | Says how military forces are treated by a foreign government if legal issues arrise |
| 22:20.49 | atoponce | in canadian military, it's a chesterfield |
| 22:21.11 | atoponce | ~blame canada |
| 22:21.14 | ibot | ACTION blames canada (and Canada) for all the evil in the world |
| 22:21.18 | mheath | anyway |
| 22:21.29 | mheath | so, yeah...about going and picking up my dry cleaning |
| 22:21.30 | Lone_Wanderer | ~blame PETA |
| 22:21.32 | ibot | ACTION blames PETA (and Canada) for all the evil in the world |
| 22:21.35 | Lone_Wanderer | Sweet. |
| 22:21.51 | mheath | I'm not sure I'm brave enough to make it past the girl scouts selling cookies. |
| 22:22.02 | mheath | They always stake out the mini-NEX. Bah. |
| 22:22.26 | emcnabb | yummy |
| 22:22.29 | *** join/#utah cww (i=cww@nat/redhat/x-3c83ad804c18fb98) |
| 22:22.36 | mheath | Indeed |
| 22:22.40 | atoponce | (back on topic) has anyone done anything with the python imaging library? |
| 22:22.41 | mheath | But I have 2 boxes |
| 22:22.43 | emcnabb | girl scout cookies... made from real girlscouts |
| 22:22.44 | mheath | And my roomate has 5. |
| 22:22.52 | Lone_Wanderer | Just ignore them. |
| 22:23.00 | emcnabb | I've eaten several boxes this week |
| 22:23.17 | mheath | atoponce, sorry atoponce. :P |
| 22:23.18 | Lone_Wanderer | You went through basic, you should be able to ignore anything, up to and including a severed digit. |
| 22:23.37 | cww | mheath, you salty dog, is your gig line straight? Did you get your relative bearing grease yet? |
| 22:24.16 | mheath | ah, I don't have a gig line because I bought a freakin massive and awesome command belt buckle today :) |
| 22:24.17 | Lone_Wanderer | Fetch me a left-handed monkey wrench, seaman! |
| 22:24.46 | mheath | Lone_Wanderer, Already grabbing a bucket of steam for senior chief... |
| 22:24.59 | Lone_Wanderer | You'll find them both for sale in the same place. |
| 22:25.05 | mheath | s/seaman/Fireman/g |
| 22:25.17 | cww | mheath, which command/ |
| 22:25.28 | mheath | cww, NNPTC |
| 22:25.41 | mheath | (Naval Nuclear Power Training Command) |
| 22:26.23 | mheath | maquis, I've been talking for all of 30 minutes. Which is probably the most continuous time you'll ever see me on here for the next 6 months. |
| 22:26.36 | cww | so your a fireman? in the engineering dicipline I see |
| 22:26.41 | emcnabb | mheath: you ever make it up to NC? |
| 22:26.52 | mheath | emcnabb, I'm in SC. |
| 22:26.57 | emcnabb | mheath: I know |
| 22:27.04 | mheath | Can't go to NC right now. It's outside my liberty radius. |
| 22:27.22 | emcnabb | if you do, cww said he'd take us all out to lunch |
| 22:27.24 | emcnabb | on him! |
| 22:27.25 | levi | Heh. What a lousy way to live. |
| 22:27.36 | atoponce | mheath: it would be nice if the channel would stay on topic at least 10% of the time when you're here. :) |
| 22:27.42 | beandog | your liberty radius? |
| 22:27.58 | mheath | beandog, I'm limited on where I can go on the weekends |
| 22:28.02 | mheath | 75 mile radius |
| 22:28.15 | mheath | Though that expands to 400 miles in about a month. |
| 22:28.19 | beandog | marriage? |
| 22:28.22 | Lone_Wanderer | If there's a town 70 miles away, that's 10 miles across... |
| 22:28.52 | mheath | Lone_Wanderer, actually, one town has that problem |
| 22:28.54 | levi | Lone_Wanderer: Halfway through the town, the shock collar will go off. |
| 22:29.00 | mheath | Myrtle Beach. |
| 22:29.07 | mheath | Myrtle Beach is off limits :( |
| 22:29.10 | tensai | levi: heh |
| 22:29.29 | tensai | I have the same problem with my ankle monit... nevermind |
| 22:29.29 | Lone_Wanderer | Nah, they just make them wear GPS units that radio back their locations. |
| 22:29.45 | Lone_Wanderer | If they speed or get too close to any brothels... |
| 22:29.52 | mheath | No, I just don't have a car |
| 22:30.01 | mheath | and have to be back at a certain time at night |
| 22:30.11 | mheath | (they log when you key into your room) |
| 22:30.31 | mheath | Can't make it much farther than 75 miles with no car and limited time |
| 22:31.04 | Lone_Wanderer | Can the door be opened without keying it? |
| 22:31.22 | mheath | Lone_Wanderer, erm. You have to swipe the key card to get in. |
| 22:31.27 | Lone_Wanderer | Like from the inside, by your roommate? |
| 22:31.30 | mheath | I guess your roomate could open the door from inside |
| 22:31.40 | mheath | but then they'd be wondering why you opened the door at 2:00 in the morning |
| 22:31.46 | emcnabb | mheath: come on, free dinner from cww |
| 22:31.51 | emcnabb | come on up here |
| 22:31.56 | levi | Man, it's more draconian than BYU! ;) |
| 22:31.56 | mheath | I'm not sure who cww is. |
| 22:31.59 | Lone_Wanderer | Had to pee, obviously. |
| 22:32.04 | mheath | levi: You have no idea. |
| 22:32.12 | Lone_Wanderer | levi: that's quite an achievement |
| 22:32.14 | mheath | Mandatory study time. Grrrr. |
| 22:32.17 | levi | mheath: That was a joke. |
| 22:32.19 | emcnabb | cww is my coworker, he was the one who worked on subs in a previous life |
| 22:32.45 | cww | mheath, you in nuke school? |
| 22:32.46 | mheath | minimum 2 hours a day, minimum 15 hours a week. |
| 22:32.49 | mheath | cww, yes. |
| 22:33.07 | levi | What happened to that dry cleaning trip? |
| 22:33.19 | mheath | I don't know. This is too destracting |
| 22:33.19 | cww | mheath, did you not heed my warning a while back? |
| 22:33.46 | atoponce | anyone know if the python image library supports svg? |
| 22:33.49 | Lone_Wanderer | You said "mheath" and "heed" in the same sentence! |
| 22:33.57 | atoponce | can't find it anywhere on the site, docs, etc |
| 22:33.59 | levi | Won't someone give you 40 lashings or something if you don't get your dry cleaning in time? |
| 22:34.27 | mheath | Especially considering that the dry cleaners is like....100 yards away... |
| 22:34.47 | mheath | Though I'd have to cross through endangered wetland area to take that short of a route. |
| 22:34.50 | mheath | Don't bother |
| 22:35.00 | Lone_Wanderer | atoponce: I strongly suspect that Python can handle svg just fine. If it can't, you can use a C library that'll do it. |
| 22:35.20 | Lone_Wanderer | There's endangered wetl... no, never mind. |
| 22:36.27 | levi | destracting: the process of removing stracts from your clothes after wandering through endangered wetland areas. |
| 22:37.01 | Lone_Wanderer | Is a stract like a tract, only simpler? |
| 22:37.19 | levi | I was thinking more like a burr, only stractier. |
| 22:57.00 | mheath | Told you it was close. |
| 22:58.01 | findlay | harleypig: I guess elinks == links2 |
| 22:58.08 | findlay | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:58.10 | mheath | findlay, indeed. |
| 22:58.14 | findlay | http://elinks.or.cz/history.html |
| 22:58.15 | brac | [The history and evolution of the Links browsers] |
| 22:58.18 | harleypig | findlay: np, I found it at twibrights sight. |
| 22:58.25 | findlay | harleypig: there's also w3m |
| 22:58.27 | harleypig | And it's not what I want anyway. |
| 22:58.39 | harleypig | I'll have to check that one out as well. |
| 22:59.35 | harleypig | does that one support javascript? |
| 22:59.43 | findlay | will WWW::Mechanize not work, or simmilar LWP derived functinality? |
| 22:59.49 | findlay | I think elinks does |
| 23:01.00 | harleypig | No, elinks supports javascript so you can write your own javascript (kind of like greasemonkey). |
| 23:01.13 | harleypig | Not parsing and executing the javascript on the page. |
| 23:01.42 | harleypig | You still can't use gmail from elinks (at least, not the ajaxified version). |
| 23:01.51 | mheath | Whats the deal with this Utah Open Source Conference in the topic? |
| 23:01.56 | findlay | is there a stand alone javascript engine out there that you can plug into it? |
| 23:01.58 | levi | Why would you need the ajaxified version with a text browser? |
| 23:03.26 | Jayce^ | levi, scripting |
| 23:04.43 | levi | Jayce^: How does using the ajax version change what you can script? |
| 23:05.31 | findlay | levi: you can't script through javascript links without being able to read the javascript |
| 23:05.51 | findlay | supposing they don't provide a non-AJAX version |
| 23:06.12 | levi | findlay: There is a non-AJAX version of gmail, though. |
| 23:07.15 | findlay | levi: but there's lots of pages that don't have non javascript versions |
| 23:08.40 | harleypig | findlay: There is SpiderMonkey and a perl module for it, but I'm not clear on how the DOM interacts with javascript, at least at a programming level. |
| 23:08.51 | levi | findlay: So? I doubt a text-mode browser that can do AJAX stuff is going to be particularly more amenable to scripting than a graphical browser that does AJAX. |
| 23:09.03 | harleypig | levi: there isn't a non ajax version for aol mail. |
| 23:09.44 | *** join/#utah tristanbob (n=tristan@oalug/member/tristanbob) |
| 23:09.50 | findlay | levi: I don't understand why you're trying to argue that |
| 23:09.52 | harleypig | levi: elinks allows for scripting, and running expect on a curses based browser is feasible. |
| 23:09.59 | maquis | ajax sucks |
| 23:10.17 | harleypig | maquis: heh |
| 23:10.35 | harleypig | I think it's overused, but it has a lot of potential. |
| 23:10.57 | harleypig | mheath: oscon.oreilly.net |
| 23:10.57 | findlay | maybe graphical browzar extrordinare is super scriptable, but does that mean you don't have to start the graphical client to do scripting? |
| 23:11.18 | Jayce^ | harleypig, no, not that one.. |
| 23:11.24 | harleypig | ? |
| 23:11.31 | Jayce^ | utos.com, and coming soon (next week) utosc.org |
| 23:11.38 | Jayce^ | harleypig, you should know a little more about it.. |
| 23:11.42 | Jayce^ | look at the topic |
| 23:12.10 | Jayce^ | levi, it's so harleypig can access a ajax site, via scripted tools.. on a server |
| 23:12.13 | harleypig | http://conferences.oreillynet.com/oscon/ |
| 23:12.28 | harleypig | oh |
| 23:12.59 | *** join/#utah vontrapp (n=von@207.108.169.113) |
| 23:13.26 | findlay | heh |
| 23:13.27 | levi | harleypig: I think you'd be better off starting with Mozilla or some component thereof. |
| 23:13.40 | vontrapp | why does gnome bind up my right ALT and what for? |
| 23:13.56 | findlay | because it's injured and needs to be bound |
| 23:14.05 | findlay | GNOME knows what's best for your computer |
| 23:15.34 | levi | harleypig: The likelihood of any actual commercially developed AJAX apps working correctly with some 0.009% marketshare text-mode browser is pretty close to nil. |
| 23:16.18 | levi | On the other hand, mozilla is all about being scriptable. You'd just have to get it to work headless. |
| 23:16.28 | findlay | levi: are you saying the use of ajax is not very standardized? |
| 23:16.36 | harleypig | levi: SpiderMonkey is Mozillas javascript engine. If the dom is done correctly, it'll be the same. |
| 23:17.10 | levi | harleypig: Which seems like a big if to me, but that could be a good solution. |
| 23:18.20 | levi | findlay: I'm saying the implementations of the DOM are not always very adherent to standards. |
| 23:19.00 | findlay | ah |
| 23:19.48 | levi | Or, at least, they are different enough that writing cross-browser AJAX seems to be difficult. |
| 23:20.20 | levi | I have not studied the matter in enough depth to point fingers. |
| 23:20.38 | macnewbold | if you use something like xajax, it works flawlessly crossbrowser |
| 23:20.59 | findlay | that's a symmetric word |
| 23:21.46 | levi | macnewbold: Yeah, if someone else has already written a compatibility layer for all the browsers you're interested in, of course it's cross-browser. |
| 23:22.26 | macnewbold | yes, that's the point. use something that's already cross browser, layer your stuff on top of it as needed, and you're good to go |
| 23:22.34 | levi | macnewbold: The fact that such projects exist is testament to the difficulty of actually implementing the DOM compatibly. |
| 23:22.47 | atoponce | maquis: what's so bad about ajax? |
| 23:23.27 | findlay | my hector can take your ajax |
| 23:23.45 | findlay | or achilles |
| 23:24.13 | atoponce | my ajax is atlas to your hector |
| 23:24.19 | levi | macnewbold: Before those projects existed, or if you couldn't use them for whatever reason, it would be hard. The fact that someone has done the hard work doesn't invalidate my point, which was that DOM implementations don't tend to be perfectly compatible. |
| 23:29.09 | mheath | Yesterday someone recommended Gizmo for PC-to-landline calling |
| 23:29.19 | mheath | Has anyone personally used it / can comment on the voice quality? |
| 23:29.35 | mheath | Has anyone used Skype enough to comment on its landline call voice quality? |
| 23:33.13 | beandog | works good. |
| 23:33.19 | beandog | I wouldnt rely on it. |
| 23:33.25 | beandog | but it works well enough. |
| 23:33.35 | Lone_Wanderer | Not something you'd want to dial 911 on I'd imagine. |
| 23:33.38 | elg | mheath: I've used gizmo on and off for voip calls |
| 23:33.44 | beandog | they dont even have 911 support |
| 23:33.45 | elg | not as a gateway to pstn |
| 23:33.55 | mheath | I'm just looking for something I can call home with |
| 23:33.57 | Lone_Wanderer | PSTN = what again? |
| 23:34.00 | mheath | With good voice quality |
| 23:34.04 | elg | public switched telephone network |
| 23:34.12 | Lone_Wanderer | Post Stress Traumatic Network? |
| 23:34.14 | Lone_Wanderer | ahh ok |
| 23:34.14 | mheath | I tried yahoo messenger with voice, and it kept disconnecting, freezing up, etc. |
| 23:34.19 | elg | my friend calls his sister in england with google talk all the time and he says it sounds excellent |
| 23:34.48 | elg | hans.fugal.net/tmp/menu.aiff.mp3 |
| 23:34.56 | mheath | I need PC-landline though |
| 23:35.03 | mheath | Google talk just does PC-to-PC doesn't it? |
| 23:35.07 | elg | don't know |
| 23:35.19 | beandog | theres a program to record your skype calls, too |
| 23:35.22 | *** part/#utah SpecialZ (n=skraczek@12.191.193.40) |
| 23:35.22 | beandog | only works with linux though. |
| 23:35.33 | elg | gizmo has recording built into the client |
| 23:36.12 | elg | give gizmo a try. if it doesn't work, you can try a more special-purpose sip provider (they have pay-as-you-go plans and monthly plans) |
| 23:39.40 | mrpull | mheath: what brings you to these parts of the intarweb? |
| 23:43.16 | mheath | Odd... |
| 23:43.26 | mheath | Gizmo Project won't give me call out credit |
| 23:43.27 | findlay | skype is evil |
| 23:43.39 | mheath | Tried charging it to two different cards, and both of them got flagged for manual review |
| 23:44.03 | levi | mheath: They must have detected that you're a minor! |
| 23:44.15 | mheath | mrpull: eh? |
| 23:44.17 | mheath | levi: Heh. |
| 23:47.08 | dataw0lf | plugging cool Django features into Pylons |
| 23:47.23 | findlay | ~curse dataw0lf for having the grit to keep working |
| 23:47.33 | ibot | May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, dataw0lf for having the grit to keep working ! |
| 23:47.54 | findlay | dataw0lf: my job is pretty good too |
| 23:48.04 | findlay | and I work primarily with django |
| 23:48.10 | dataw0lf | findlay: really? awesome |
| 23:48.15 | findlay | yeah |
| 23:48.21 | dataw0lf | yea, I'm head of the 'Python Web Dev R&D' here |
| 23:48.22 | macnewbold | findlay: serious? django? I bet Lone_Wanderer has some easy questions for you then... |
| 23:48.25 | macnewbold | ~findlay Lone_Wanderer |
| 23:48.27 | ibot | ACTION recreationally nmaps Lone_Wanderer. |
| 23:48.34 | macnewbold | ~wake Lone_Wanderer |
| 23:48.36 | ibot | ACTION throws a barrel-full of ice water on Lone_Wanderer and shouts "GOOD MORNING!!!!" |
| 23:48.36 | findlay | but increasingly I've had to work with people too |
| 23:48.48 | macnewbold | ~praise findlay for knowing django |
| 23:48.50 | ibot | All hail findlay for knowing django! |
| 23:48.50 | dataw0lf | findlay: you gotta try out Pylons with Django url dispatcher and views |
| 23:49.06 | Lone_Wanderer | I'm here. |
| 23:49.26 | macnewbold | findlay is a django expert :-D |
| 23:49.28 | Lone_Wanderer | I'm done with the questions though. Now I'm just plugging stuff in. |
| 23:49.36 | macnewbold | oh, good, so that weird exception went away? |
| 23:49.40 | Lone_Wanderer | Yeah. |
| 23:49.41 | macnewbold | something about being unable to clone a dict? |
| 23:49.43 | Lone_Wanderer | I forget what it was. |
| 23:49.48 | macnewbold | very bizarre stuff |
| 23:49.50 | findlay | dataw0lf: well, I'm such a python newbie that I'm still overdazzled by the coolness and easiness of django that I think django's ORM is awesome |
| 23:49.51 | dataw0lf | being a python expert is better than being a Django expert. |
| 23:49.51 | Lone_Wanderer | Yeah. I just fixed the dict. |
| 23:50.01 | dataw0lf | findlay: Trust me bro, it isn't. |
| 23:50.06 | dataw0lf | Once you get beyond simple stuff. |
| 23:50.10 | dataw0lf | I mean, I love Django, don't get me wrong |
| 23:50.16 | findlay | dataw0lf: hey I'm no self-styled guru |
| 23:50.24 | dataw0lf | oh, I'm self-styled baby |
| 23:50.31 | findlay | heh |
| 23:50.32 | Lone_Wanderer | He combs his hair every morning. |
| 23:50.38 | dataw0lf | WITH A COMB |
| 23:50.47 | findlay | evar |
| 23:50.51 | Lone_Wanderer | findlay shaves it? |
| 23:50.58 | tristanbob | findlay: best hairdo evar? |
| 23:51.07 | findlay | when it gets long enogh to need combing it gets cut |
| 23:51.18 | findlay | that's how I know when I need it trimmed again |
| 23:51.22 | dataw0lf | findlay: Django is awesome in many ways, though, true; not the least of which being it's Python ;) |
| 23:51.27 | sjansen | dataw0lf: Have you followed the Django moved to SQL Alchemy and newforms? Any opinions? |
| 23:51.31 | tristanbob | aren't open source people supposed to have long-hair? |
| 23:51.34 | dataw0lf | sjansen: Yes on both |
| 23:51.40 | dataw0lf | I'd like to see SQLAlchemy take hold |
| 23:51.50 | dataw0lf | but it's still a wee bit restrictive |
| 23:51.52 | dataw0lf | newforms, meh |
| 23:52.00 | sjansen | Why so? |
| 23:52.02 | dataw0lf | haven't used em too much, I don't see that much of a difference |
| 23:52.14 | Lone_Wanderer | But they're NEW! |
| 23:52.22 | findlay | yeah, and SHINY! |
| 23:52.23 | dataw0lf | yes, that seems to be the deciding factor on em |
| 23:52.43 | dataw0lf | I mean, uncoupling the forms from your models seems like a good idea |
| 23:52.50 | sjansen | I've recently become interested in Python Web frameworks. Kinda decided on Django (possibly waiting a few months for newforms to finish baking). |
| 23:52.58 | dataw0lf | but I haven't found an instance where it really helps me |
| 23:53.05 | sjansen | Pylons was second choice, but the community seemed smaller. |
| 23:53.05 | dataw0lf | then again, I don't really use pure Django on many sites |
| 23:53.30 | dataw0lf | sjansen: I'd go with Pylons, and couple Django url dispatcher and views in it, like I did. That's, obviously, my opinion though. |
| 23:53.41 | dataw0lf | for anything that you don't want super scalable, though, Django is great. |
| 23:53.46 | findlay | dataw0lf: in any case django is way nicer than the web development I was doing |
| 23:53.54 | dataw0lf | findlay: don't say PHP.... |
| 23:54.03 | findlay | perl, actually |
| 23:54.07 | dataw0lf | even worse! |
| 23:54.12 | findlay | heh |
| 23:54.17 | sjansen | Frankly, compared to the rapid pace of Rails innovation, I'm somewhat dissatisfied with all Python solutions. |
| 23:54.29 | dataw0lf | sjansen: Sure, but Rails is Ruby ;-) |
| 23:54.36 | sjansen | The Django URL dispatcher was may favorite Django feature... |
| 23:54.40 | findlay | although I don't hold it against perl the language or any of it's server platforms |
| 23:54.41 | Lone_Wanderer | Rails has stopped sucking completely? |
| 23:54.42 | dataw0lf | I just consider Ruby as Perl OOP done right, really |
| 23:54.50 | dataw0lf | still too much crap in the code, and too much magic |
| 23:55.07 | Lone_Wanderer | Rails had *way* too much magic for me. |
| 23:55.09 | dataw0lf | findlay: sure, Perl is good for numerous things (if you KNOW it) |
| 23:55.16 | dataw0lf | and knowing Perl... well, that's one hell of a task |
| 23:55.29 | dataw0lf | Lone_Wanderer: hey, Django has got a lot of magic too |
| 23:55.32 | dataw0lf | mostly due to it's ORM |
| 23:55.47 | findlay | what is ORM? |
| 23:55.52 | dataw0lf | object relational mapping |
| 23:56.00 | dataw0lf | objects to sql |
| 23:56.05 | findlay | ah |
| 23:56.18 | dataw0lf | Django is too tightly coupled for anything really scalable |
| 23:56.24 | dataw0lf | but man I love it's url dispatcher and views |
| 23:56.25 | dataw0lf | lubs it |
| 23:56.28 | Lone_Wanderer | Django has magic but only where I don't mind it. |
| 23:56.31 | dataw0lf | templating itself is ok |
| 23:56.34 | findlay | yeah they are nice |
| 23:56.45 | dataw0lf | Lone_Wanderer: aw come on, FreeComments? |
| 23:56.48 | dataw0lf | RSSFeed? |
| 23:56.54 | Lone_Wanderer | I don't know what FreeComments are. |
| 23:56.55 | dataw0lf | it's whole ORM structure? |
| 23:57.14 | dataw0lf | FreeComments is a way to add comments easily to basically any model |
| 23:57.16 | findlay | is it pretty easy to switch out the default django ORM with another? |
| 23:57.22 | dataw0lf | so if you have an Entry model in your Blog app |
| 23:57.34 | dataw0lf | you can add like three lines and get pure comment coolness |
| 23:57.40 | dataw0lf | it's basically a generic template derivative |
| 23:57.55 | dataw0lf | findlay: not really, that's why I prefer Pylons for anything complex |
| 23:58.02 | dataw0lf | Pylons is really, really uncoupled |
| 23:58.19 | dataw0lf | you can use any ORM, templating system, etc |
| 23:58.28 | Lone_Wanderer | I love its ORM. |
| 23:58.28 | findlay | so that's why you're hacking pylons django style? |
| 23:58.34 | dataw0lf | yea |
| 23:59.02 | dataw0lf | I've found that on larger sites with a great deal of many-to-many relationships and other JOIN related stuff, I need a more complex and explicit ORM |
| 23:59.13 | Lone_Wanderer | dataw0lf: that kind of stuff I don't mind. |
| 23:59.19 | dataw0lf | but, hey, my blog is pure Django |
| 23:59.28 | dataw0lf | I'm adding FreeComments as we speak |
| 23:59.28 | Lone_Wanderer | maybe it's the lack of decent rails documentation that bugged me, I dunno. |
| 23:59.36 | dataw0lf | djangobook.com |
| 23:59.48 | dataw0lf | it's pretty awesome, I'm thinking of adding it's comment system to my blog structure |