| 00:00.00 | Lone_Wanderer | Maybe a bit cynical ;) |
| 00:00.11 | mrpull | findlay: you are goofy dude. maybe a little premarital action is what you need :) |
| 00:00.18 | Lone_Wanderer | Then again, if I just wanted to make out with someone, I wouldn't bother declaring myself her boyfriend first. |
| 00:01.07 | tene | I think that the ridiculous titles of "boyfriend" and such are thrown about much too easily and are nearly meaningless. |
| 00:01.17 | findlay | mrpull: I ought to be more sanguine generally, but ther stakes are pretty high on this one :/ |
| 00:01.28 | findlay | tene: indeed |
| 00:01.38 | Lone_Wanderer | tene: I think it depends entirely upon who's using the term. |
| 00:01.48 | findlay | as we've just seen (-: |
| 00:02.00 | levi | I'm glad I don't have to think much about this stuff anymore until my daughter gets quite a bit older. |
| 00:02.03 | tene | I find nearly nothing meaningful or desirable in most relationships I've seen that have used such terms. |
| 00:02.25 | Lone_Wanderer | levi: you don't even have to worry about it then. If you disapprove of her boyfriend, just kidnap her on the day of her wedding. |
| 00:03.05 | tene | seeya, findlay |
| 00:03.13 | SpecialZ | Then I probably shouldn't tell you about my GF? |
| 00:03.13 | findlay | huh? |
| 00:03.22 | findlay | oh, yeah |
| 00:03.30 | findlay | is she special? |
| 00:03.46 | findlay | like cereal made from corn? |
| 00:04.25 | Lone_Wanderer | findlay: I think that most people in the US, and particularly those in this room, would agree that using the term (boy|girl)friend just to get some action is degrading to the idea of a committed relationship. |
| 00:06.04 | Lone_Wanderer | (And I still want to hear about how your brothers pulled off getting married without having a GF. I could use info like that.) |
| 00:06.06 | findlay | Lone_Wanderer: but there's a more subtle part of it. Perhaps people are tempted into a declaration partially because physical action is seen as a perk or the spoils of girlfriendness |
| 00:06.36 | Lone_Wanderer | Perhaps. |
| 00:06.45 | findlay | Lone_Wanderer: you could probably say their current wives were their girlfriends before getting married |
| 00:06.59 | mrpull | current wives? |
| 00:07.04 | Lone_Wanderer | Ironically, I think that requiring "girlfriend" status before kissing might actually make that more of a problem. |
| 00:07.18 | findlay | yes, the wife current |
| 00:07.31 | findlay | like electrical or the (hypothetical) magnetic current |
| 00:07.41 | Lone_Wanderer | If girls would make out with guys they weren't dating, then no guy would feel the need to declare a girl his girlfriend just to be able to kiss her. |
| 00:07.43 | SpecialZ | Is there something wrong with a period between casual dating and full fledged engagement where you're deciding if the relationship will work? |
| 00:08.02 | findlay | yes, it is absolutely scandalous and evil |
| 00:08.46 | findlay | Lone_Wanderer: as you can see I'm quite naive |
| 00:09.24 | Lone_Wanderer | SpecialZ: The appropriate process is to get baptized, never look at a member of the opposite sex until you return from your mission, receive personal revelation that someone is to marry you, and then inform her of your pending marriage. |
| 00:10.17 | SpecialZ | Since then she'll understand just how spiritual you are and put the rest of her life on hold for you. |
| 00:10.29 | Lone_Wanderer | Oh hold? No, you've got it wrong. |
| 00:10.34 | Lone_Wanderer | The rest of her life is *with* you. |
| 00:10.50 | SpecialZ | or pepper spray you. |
| 00:10.51 | findlay | Lone_Wanderer's got it |
| 00:11.01 | tene | And once you're married you flip the "sex" switch and then go screw like rabbits, because suddenly it's okay, and that huge change will never cause any problems or difficulties in the relationship at all. |
| 00:11.11 | findlay | Lone_Wanderer: you should be on the speaking circuit |
| 00:12.26 | Lone_Wanderer | I cannot make a response to that without risking offending someone. |
| 00:14.15 | *** join/#utah dna3e8 (n=dallred@72.8.75.81) |
| 00:14.45 | dna3e8 | I can't get proftp to start |
| 00:14.54 | Lone_Wanderer | proftp, or proftpd? |
| 00:14.59 | dna3e8 | proftpd |
| 00:15.00 | findlay | you don't have the sufficient wife-current |
| 00:15.36 | dna3e8 | I am using webmin as a gui for the admin |
| 00:15.44 | Lone_Wanderer | Well there's the problem. |
| 00:15.54 | Lone_Wanderer | Your first step will be to uninstall webmin. |
| 00:16.04 | dna3e8 | .... |
| 00:16.11 | Lone_Wanderer | After that, go to the bookstore and pick up a book on the OS that you're using. |
| 00:16.41 | dna3e8 | I havn't found one that is NOT over my head |
| 00:16.54 | tene | so stand up and quit sitting down |
| 00:17.11 | Lone_Wanderer | I hate to sound insulting, but - have you tried the For Dummies books? |
| 00:17.17 | Lone_Wanderer | (I've got SEVERAL of them myself.) |
| 00:17.39 | Lone_Wanderer | There are good sysadmin books out there, but yes, they will be over the head of someone who's new to Unix. |
| 00:18.38 | macnewbold | wow, free sex-ed classes in #utah today... :) |
| 00:18.51 | dna3e8 | ok |
| 00:18.57 | macnewbold | someone should have told me about tene's switch earlier... |
| 00:18.58 | findlay | ~marry macnewbold |
| 00:19.04 | macnewbold | ~slap findlay |
| 00:19.05 | ibot | ACTION slaps findlay, keep your grubby fingers to yourself! |
| 00:19.22 | dna3e8 | ~give up on fedora |
| 00:19.23 | ibot | ACTION gives on fedora to up |
| 00:19.23 | macnewbold | someone else already married me |
| 00:19.51 | Lone_Wanderer | dna3e8: you're using Fedora Core? |
| 00:19.55 | macnewbold | in fact, someone was married to me as well, at the same time, by the same person that married me |
| 00:19.56 | dna3e8 | yes |
| 00:20.17 | Lone_Wanderer | Do you have root on the system, or is it hosted with someone who only provides webmin access? |
| 00:20.22 | macnewbold | hm, maybe it's not funny to talk about the person performing your marriage having married you |
| 00:20.23 | dna3e8 | I have root |
| 00:20.24 | Lone_Wanderer | I guess those aren't necessarily exclusive |
| 00:20.26 | Lone_Wanderer | okay cool |
| 00:20.35 | ti`ocpi | wow, reading backlog and I'm scared to show my face around here |
| 00:20.37 | ti`ocpi | o_O |
| 00:20.43 | Lone_Wanderer | macnewbold: I chuckled, but I was busy typing to dna3e8. |
| 00:20.46 | herlo | macnewbold: depends on the crowd I think... |
| 00:20.47 | dna3e8 | I am ok uninstalling web min |
| 00:21.03 | Lone_Wanderer | dna3e8++ |
| 00:21.03 | macnewbold | okay, so I'm not crazy |
| 00:21.12 | macnewbold | geeks not getting puns would be a very sad day indeed |
| 00:22.02 | Lone_Wanderer | I think I have a chronic vitamin C deficiency. |
| 00:22.25 | Lone_Wanderer | Whichis actually plausible since it's water soluble and you need more every day. |
| 00:22.41 | dna3e8 | I just installed fedora this morning ( hopping that would help proftpd to work) |
| 00:22.50 | Lone_Wanderer | ahh |
| 00:22.52 | dna3e8 | *re-installed |
| 00:23.02 | Lone_Wanderer | so your real goal is to make proftpd work, and fedora was just one attempt at it? |
| 00:23.52 | tene | ti`ocpi: you should be. apparently females are money-sucking and emotion-sucking vampires not to be touched unless you plan on marrying that specific one. |
| 00:23.58 | dna3e8 | yes... OF all the distros I have tried is seems to be the most people friendly (debian, suse, freebsd...) |
| 00:24.16 | tene | They provide no positive interactions at all except for marriage. |
| 00:24.27 | Lone_Wanderer | ti`ocpi: Oh, are you female? |
| 00:24.31 | macnewbold | oh, tene... are you feeling a little lonely lately? |
| 00:24.39 | ti`ocpi | Yup, I'm a girl |
| 00:24.59 | macnewbold | ~console tene |
| 00:25.00 | ibot | ACTION gives tene the consolation moose |
| 00:25.07 | dna3e8 | that is y arranged marage3s are the future |
| 00:25.53 | findlay | ti`ocpi: are you doing anything this weekend? |
| 00:26.11 | tene | macnewbold: no, I'm just much more irritated by what findlay said than I should be. Perhaps I should avoid IRC today. |
| 00:26.18 | ti`ocpi | Going back to salt lake ..... |
| 00:26.40 | findlay | oh well, I tried |
| 00:26.47 | findlay | (-: |
| 00:26.48 | ti`ocpi | and then up to Idaho |
| 00:26.55 | ti`ocpi | and then back to salt lake o_O |
| 00:27.01 | findlay | long weekend |
| 00:27.06 | ti`ocpi | and then back to Cedar |
| 00:27.08 | ti`ocpi | yeah |
| 00:27.15 | ti`ocpi | Every day I'm going to be in a car |
| 00:28.30 | tene | ... yeah, I need to be away from IRC before I get even more offensive. |
| 00:29.18 | ti`ocpi | byebye tene |
| 00:29.45 | findlay | tene: sorry for being offensive |
| 00:29.52 | brac | sorry for caps |
| 00:29.59 | findlay | ~give tene a branch of olives |
| 00:30.08 | ibot | ACTION gives a branch of olives to tene |
| 00:30.08 | Lone_Wanderer | lol you're not offensive |
| 00:30.12 | findlay | there |
| 00:30.15 | Lone_Wanderer | I think that tene is afraid he'll speak his mind and offend you |
| 00:31.55 | tene | Lone_Wanderer: it's more that I don't think open hostility is generally appropriate for this channel, especially for subjects far removed from the stated channel topic. |
| 00:32.06 | tene | Especially without good reason, which I definitely don't have. |
| 00:32.13 | Lone_Wanderer | cool |
| 00:32.34 | findlay | aw, come on. #Utah stands for Off Topic |
| 00:33.24 | dna3e8 | ok then how about a nice walk through setting up an ftp server... for a ... newbee :) |
| 00:33.27 | SpecialZ | but the top says #utah stands for Pound for the #utah Techies And Has-beens |
| 00:34.12 | Lone_Wanderer | dna3e8: You have it installed? |
| 00:34.20 | dna3e8 | yes |
| 00:34.42 | dna3e8 | proftp reload fails so I think there is error with the . conf |
| 00:35.00 | dna3e8 | yes (yum install proftpd) |
| 00:35.04 | macnewbold | if someone needs to vent about the opposite sex for a while, that's fine with me |
| 00:35.33 | Lone_Wanderer | dna3e8: what does it say when you try to run it? that generally points to the problem. or at least, one of them. |
| 00:35.52 | tene | findlay: the channel has mode -t... |
| 00:36.00 | dna3e8 | it just says failed |
| 00:36.15 | Lone_Wanderer | Hmm. Anyone know if proftpd has an error log somewhere? |
| 00:36.38 | findlay | macnewbold: me too, although I think tene's issue was with my aggressive position |
| 00:36.58 | SpecialZ | findlay: I'll agree with you that intimacy just for the temporary pleasure is a mistake, but have received counsel that you need to try a little bit in a mature relationship to make sure that you will enjoy being with that person. |
| 00:37.36 | findlay | SpecialZ: that is reasonable |
| 00:37.58 | goozbach | Lone_Wanderer: methinks it just logs to syslog |
| 00:38.12 | findlay | tail -F /var/log/messages |
| 00:38.21 | *** join/#utah beandog (n=sdibb@gentoo/developer/beandog) |
| 00:40.09 | atoponce | http://xkcd.com/c224.html |
| 00:40.10 | brac | [xkcd - A webcomic of romance, sarcasm, math, and language - By Randall Munroe] |
| 00:40.19 | Lone_Wanderer | xkcd is the best thing ever |
| 00:40.42 | goozbach | everybody who is physically able needs to go to sllug tonight and harass lamont |
| 00:40.45 | goozbach | just for me |
| 00:40.56 | atoponce | levi: this is for you: http://xkcd.com/c222.html |
| 00:40.57 | brac | [xkcd - A webcomic of romance, sarcasm, math, and language - By Randall Munroe] |
| 00:41.10 | atoponce | genius |
| 00:41.44 | atoponce | man |
| 00:42.09 | dna3e8 | Feb 21 23:40:00 81 kernel: audit(1172126400.061:4): avc: denied { append } for pid=2880 comm="proftpd" name="miniserv.error" dev=dm-0 ino=231006 scontext=system_u:system_r:ftpd_t:s0 tcontext=system_u:object_r:var_t:s0 tclass=file |
| 00:42.11 | atoponce | i'm a bit behind on the xkcd comics i think |
| 00:42.22 | dna3e8 | (sorry) |
| 00:42.32 | tene | dna3e8: how did you install proftpd? |
| 00:42.51 | dna3e8 | yum install proftpd |
| 00:45.05 | beandog | is sllug meeting tonight??? crap. |
| 00:45.17 | Lone_Wanderer | Can I get visio for a mac? |
| 00:45.24 | beandog | whose going? |
| 00:47.24 | dna3e8 | where is it |
| 00:47.48 | beandog | http://sllug.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=110&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0&POSTNUKESID=b3f457c73166888e466e96148e86d6bc |
| 00:48.05 | beandog | U of U, looks like |
| 00:48.46 | findlay | when is it? |
| 00:48.58 | beandog | 7:10 |
| 00:50.21 | goozbach | dna3e8: run the following command as root: setenforce 0 |
| 00:50.29 | goozbach | then try to restart proftpd |
| 00:50.35 | rsimpkins | I thought sllug was cancled. |
| 00:50.37 | rsimpkins | Maybe not. |
| 00:51.00 | beandog | rsimpkins: I was looking for you ... for some reason ... that I completely forgot. |
| 00:51.17 | rsimpkins | beandog: I'm available any time. |
| 00:51.34 | rsimpkins | beandog: In case you remember. 801-602-8661 |
| 00:51.46 | goozbach | dna3e8: it appears you have an SELinux related issue |
| 00:52.01 | goozbach | dna3e8: is this fedora core 6? |
| 00:52.05 | dna3e8 | yes |
| 00:52.18 | rsimpkins | selinux, blah, I always disable it. |
| 00:52.28 | rsimpkins | I like to live dangerously I guess. |
| 00:52.30 | goozbach | give me a few minutes to create an FC6 instance and I'll see what the appropiate context is |
| 00:52.43 | goozbach | XEN++ |
| 00:52.48 | nick125_lappy | SELinux is a pain in the rear |
| 00:52.58 | goozbach | nick125_lappy: I agree |
| 00:53.13 | goozbach | but it's saved my rear more times than I'd like to count |
| 00:53.32 | goozbach | dna3e8: actually try updating your machine |
| 00:53.34 | nick125_lappy | I used to run SELinux+hardened-sources... |
| 00:53.49 | goozbach | yum update |
| 00:54.04 | findlay | why won't dhcpd start? |
| 00:54.06 | dna3e8 | should I yum update or upgrade? |
| 00:54.07 | findlay | I want to go home |
| 00:54.21 | goozbach | see if that downloads any SELinux related packages, those sorts of bugs are usually quickly fixed |
| 00:54.24 | goozbach | yum update |
| 00:54.39 | goozbach | you don't want to remove packages that have been deprecated |
| 00:54.47 | goozbach | just update all the ones you've got installed |
| 00:55.32 | dna3e8 | no update needed |
| 00:55.45 | goozbach | hmm |
| 00:55.51 | goozbach | alright. |
| 00:56.09 | goozbach | well let me get this instance built and I can install proftpd and see what's broken |
| 00:56.22 | goozbach | you've probally ran into a SELinux bug |
| 00:56.36 | goozbach | if it runs AFTER you ran that previous command |
| 00:57.20 | dna3e8 | I disabled SELinux and tried to start proftpd and it failed... |
| 00:58.02 | goozbach | so that might not be the issue |
| 00:58.10 | goozbach | anything new in /var/log/messages? |
| 00:58.41 | dna3e8 | is there some way to check the conf file? (porftpd reload fails ) |
| 00:59.16 | goozbach | not sure |
| 00:59.27 | goozbach | I always us vsftpd |
| 00:59.36 | goozbach | or don't use ftp at all |
| 00:59.46 | beandog | mmm ... vsftpd |
| 01:00.24 | dna3e8 | I "heard" proftpd is better then vsftpd.. |
| 01:00.39 | beandog | kernel.org runs vsfptd |
| 01:01.00 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 01:01.27 | goozbach | and what are you trying to accomplish with your ftp server? |
| 01:01.30 | findlay | and zxcvbnftpd |
| 01:01.35 | goozbach | uploads? downloads? |
| 01:01.39 | goozbach | both? |
| 01:02.11 | dna3e8 | both... mostly to push my site to the linux server |
| 01:02.36 | dna3e8 | the linux server is the one with problems) |
| 01:03.14 | goozbach | any reason not to use ssh? |
| 01:03.22 | nick125_lappy | goozbach: or scp |
| 01:03.31 | goozbach | ftp is a pretty insecure protocol |
| 01:03.33 | dna3e8 | What do you find more stable, webmin or gnome system admin tools? |
| 01:03.43 | goozbach | define stable? |
| 01:03.48 | dna3e8 | I don't know how to send a file with ssh |
| 01:03.51 | nick125_lappy | dna3e8: Bash and Nano :-) |
| 01:04.14 | dna3e8 | Stable: works more of the time |
| 01:04.24 | beandog | findlay: heh |
| 01:04.26 | nick125_lappy | dna3e8: you could use gftp to send/receive files |
| 01:04.41 | goozbach | ok then define works? every function working, reads configs? |
| 01:05.00 | goozbach | nick125_lappy: you would never make a good doctor |
| 01:05.04 | beandog | or konqueror is pretty nice to send stuff |
| 01:05.09 | beandog | nautilus might have an ftp extension, dunno |
| 01:05.19 | beandog | or handler, or whatever its called. |
| 01:05.19 | dna3e8 | is capable of doing waht is clames to be doing |
| 01:05.28 | nick125_lappy | goozbach: Hahahahahahahahaahaha |
| 01:05.35 | goozbach | dna3e8: what are you using as a guest operationg system, to connect to this linux server? |
| 01:05.41 | dna3e8 | I need the linux server to recive files |
| 01:05.49 | goozbach | you're running a web-site on a linux server? |
| 01:06.00 | goozbach | you are creating said site on what? |
| 01:06.09 | goozbach | what needs to push the files to the server? |
| 01:06.24 | dna3e8 | I am sending from a mac hosting a website on linux |
| 01:06.34 | goozbach | ok |
| 01:06.48 | nick125_lappy | I think gftp would work on Mac, with X11 stuff installed |
| 01:07.07 | goozbach | I've actually got to deal with this in a couple weeks. |
| 01:07.26 | goozbach | my GF just bought a new mac, now she wants to be able to post pictures online |
| 01:07.31 | acrid | fugu is a nice GUI-fied scp client for Mac |
| 01:07.42 | dna3e8 | I can send from the mac just fine |
| 01:07.42 | goozbach | acrid: thank you |
| 01:07.59 | goozbach | what program are you using? |
| 01:08.25 | goozbach | we need decide what's the best thing to put on the other end |
| 01:08.28 | dna3e8 | But linux doesn't want to receive (I use cyberduck on the mac) |
| 01:09.01 | *** join/#utah Lone_Wanderer (n=chatzill@cg.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 01:09.47 | acrid | does FC6 have an ssh server installed by default? I know ubuntu doesn't |
| 01:10.05 | goozbach | fc6 does |
| 01:10.50 | acrid | ah |
| 01:10.50 | *** join/#utah SpecialZ (n=skraczek@12.191.193.40) |
| 01:11.27 | dna3e8 | ok I got vsftpd to start so I will use that (the only downside IS I don't have a webmin module for it) |
| 01:12.29 | goozbach | you will need to change some configs to allow uploads for vsftpd |
| 01:13.54 | Lone_Wanderer | au revoir, tout les mondes |
| 01:14.20 | dna3e8 | I am browsing gnome gui for a way to configure vsftpd |
| 01:20.21 | dna3e8 | I found a webmin module |
| 01:35.22 | elg | levi: well, cmake was the instigating example |
| 01:35.42 | elg | cmake looks like a capable replacement for automake, but it's ugly as all get out |
| 01:35.47 | dna3e8 | goozbach: I can't connect to vsftpd (port 20 I get connection refused |
| 01:36.15 | elg | it combines the ugliest unix config file syntax possible with chronic CamelCase and unnecessary (G)UIs |
| 01:53.37 | findlay | it'd have to be pretty apalling to beat sendmail's conf file |
| 01:54.27 | dna3e8 | what port dos vsftpd use |
| 01:55.01 | findlay | grep -i ftp /etc/services |
| 01:55.05 | brac | grep -i for onjoin in all honesty |
| 01:55.16 | findlay | brac: stop confusing dna3e8 |
| 01:57.47 | dna3e8 | /ignoring brac |
| 01:58.22 | dna3e8 | Now to get ftp access to apache's folders |
| 02:03.25 | goozbach | get vsftp going then? |
| 02:05.31 | *** join/#utah ScytheBlade1 (n=Death@about/pxe/ScytheBlade1) |
| 02:06.37 | dna3e8 | yes... |
| 02:06.51 | dna3e8 | I need some permision advise |
| 02:07.15 | dna3e8 | ... I can't send files to ../http (pemision denied |
| 02:07.26 | dna3e8 | ftp as root is a bad idea... |
| 02:07.32 | brac | ftp as root |
| 02:07.58 | dna3e8 | LOL |
| 02:09.22 | dna3e8 | should I grant access in apchee for my user or in vsftpd |
| 02:21.16 | dna3e8 | is it smart to change the owner of ../www/html (apache's doc dir) to apache or should it stay root? |
| 02:25.05 | brailsmt | anyone know how to force the screensaver in windows? |
| 02:28.11 | *** join/#utah Newsome (n=sorenson@adsl-75-0-136-70.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net) |
| 02:42.15 | *** join/#utah sloraine (n=chatzill@c-67-166-97-184.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 02:42.58 | sloraine | does anybody know of a bit torrent site where i can get TV shows? |
| 02:43.04 | sloraine | becides the pirate bay |
| 02:44.23 | sloraine | s/becides/besides |
| 02:52.31 | elg | bitmetv |
| 02:52.47 | elg | what show you looking for? |
| 02:55.07 | *** join/#utah neybar (n=jalance@209.210.190.233) |
| 02:55.46 | sloraine | the OC |
| 02:57.00 | *** join/#utah pjw (n=pjw@219.sub-70-198-46.myvzw.com) |
| 03:11.19 | dna3e8 | Can I get some permisioning advice |
| 03:11.29 | goozbach | yeah |
| 03:12.45 | goozbach | you need to make sure that you have write access to the directory for the ftp user and read access for the apache user |
| 03:13.04 | dna3e8 | I am uploading my website from a development computer to a server. |
| 03:13.22 | goozbach | this is on the server |
| 03:13.23 | dna3e8 | I added my user to the group apache |
| 03:13.57 | dna3e8 | and set user wrx and g to wr |
| 03:14.05 | tene | findlay: http://www.qwantz.com/index.pl?comic=941 |
| 03:14.28 | goozbach | on the directory? |
| 03:14.36 | goozbach | g needs +x |
| 03:14.42 | dna3e8 | yes on html |
| 03:14.59 | goozbach | execute for a directory is nessacary for accessing the directory |
| 03:19.09 | dna3e8 | ok the owned of the transferred files is the owner the ftped them |
| 03:19.31 | dna3e8 | so my web page broken |
| 03:19.47 | dna3e8 | do I need to set chroot setting in vsftpd |
| 03:20.03 | goozbach | in vsftpd.conf you need to set the chown_uploads settings |
| 03:20.38 | goozbach | chown_uploads=YES |
| 03:20.38 | goozbach | chown_username=whoever |
| 03:21.29 | dna3e8 | the coment before states that it is for anonymously uploaded files |
| 03:22.26 | dna3e8 | will the chown affect files uploaded by a user? |
| 03:26.14 | goozbach | nevermind |
| 03:26.40 | elg | -chat proftp |
| 03:26.40 | brac | proftp was |
| 03:26.43 | goozbach | what is the permissions string of the directory? |
| 03:26.46 | elg | -chat goozbach |
| 03:26.46 | brac | goozbach did |
| 03:26.51 | elg | -chat goozbach |
| 03:26.51 | brac | goozbach is goozbach |
| 03:26.58 | goozbach | ls -ld /which/dir |
| 03:27.05 | goozbach | -chat about goozbach is |
| 03:27.06 | brac | goozbach is currently on #utah |
| 03:27.13 | goozbach | really?! |
| 03:27.46 | dna3e8 | drwxrwxr-x 6 apache apache 4096 Feb 21 20:24 html |
| 03:28.25 | goozbach | do the files upload to the directory? |
| 03:28.35 | goozbach | they're just not owned by the right group? |
| 03:28.37 | dna3e8 | yes |
| 03:28.42 | goozbach | ok |
| 03:28.43 | dna3e8 | yes... |
| 03:28.47 | goozbach | do this |
| 03:28.54 | goozbach | chmod g+s on the directory |
| 03:29.01 | dna3e8 | ---------- 1 *user* *user* 314 Feb 21 20:17 html/index.html |
| 03:29.43 | goozbach | that will make any file created in the directory owned by the group that owns the directory(apache) |
| 03:29.55 | goozbach | ~paste |
| 03:30.07 | ibot | from memory, paste is http://rafb.net/paste/ |
| 03:30.42 | dna3e8 | what does s stand for |
| 03:31.51 | goozbach | Set GID |
| 03:32.11 | goozbach | what is the value of local_umask in vsftpd.conf? |
| 03:32.33 | dna3e8 | 22 ithink |
| 03:33.06 | goozbach | it needs to be 022 |
| 03:33.25 | goozbach | or vsftpd will treat it as a decimal number |
| 03:33.41 | dna3e8 | yes it is 022 |
| 03:33.46 | goozbach | ok |
| 03:34.03 | dna3e8 | uloaded files have the chmod 000 |
| 03:34.09 | dna3e8 | *uploaded |
| 03:34.22 | goozbach | yeah... that's odd |
| 03:35.20 | dna3e8 | if i manual change it to 774 everything works, so i just need to get my client or sftpd to do that |
| 03:36.29 | goozbach | change your local_umask to 077 and see what happens when you upload a completly new file |
| 03:36.59 | goozbach | 022 is more correct |
| 03:38.07 | dna3e8 | I change some ftp client setting so uploaded files assume the perms of the parent dir |
| 03:38.09 | goozbach | what is the value of file_open_mode in your vsftpd.conf |
| 03:38.14 | dna3e8 | so I kept 022 |
| 03:39.47 | dna3e8 | file_open_mode is not set |
| 03:40.17 | dna3e8 | every thing is now working |
| 03:40.58 | goozbach | cool |
| 03:41.16 | goozbach | I'm going to bed |
| 03:41.25 | dna3e8 | do I need to have background=Yes |
| 03:41.30 | dna3e8 | ok thanks |
| 03:46.37 | *** part/#utah SpecialZ (n=skraczek@12.191.193.40) |
| 03:48.27 | *** join/#utah SpecialZ (n=skraczek@12.191.193.40) |
| 03:51.33 | nick125_lappy | -lart ibot for using improper grammar |
| 03:54.06 | SpecialZ | improper grammar? |
| 03:55.24 | nick125_lappy | maquis's |
| 04:14.44 | *** part/#utah dna3e8 (n=dallred@72.8.75.81) |
| 04:45.41 | *** join/#utah TimRiker (n=timr@rikers.org) |
| 04:45.42 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 05:00.50 | levi_home | Good evening. |
| 05:02.59 | levi_home | Heh, radioactive people. |
| 05:24.21 | *** join/#utah mrpull (n=mrpull@205.158.184.126.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 05:36.21 | *** topic/#utah by elg -> The channel for OSS discussion in Utah | http://www.plug.org/node/28 | #utah stands for U-Haul Transformers Attacking Hamsters |
| 06:00.01 | nick125_lappy | What does the # part stand for? |
| 06:04.37 | Newsome | levi_home: radioactive people should be regulated by the government, just as bananas should be |
| 06:08.34 | findlay | tene: "a comic for people who are way into getting married" (-: |
| 06:08.40 | elg | nick125_lappy: it's the transformers sticker |
| 06:08.49 | elg | you know, the one that changes color when you rub it |
| 06:08.54 | nick125_lappy | elg: cool |
| 06:09.13 | tene | http://chalain.livejournal.com/43015.html -- entertaining, about windows vista |
| 06:09.16 | findlay | I think Venesuala is trying to overtake America by titrating our bananna import with radiation |
| 06:12.25 | findlay | that's very insightful. I never get tired of tetris |
| 06:14.46 | findlay | SICP time! |
| 07:10.44 | tensai | -chat |
| 07:10.45 | brac | (OpenSSH server) |
| 07:11.14 | elg | -lart tensai |
| 07:11.49 | findlay | -chat about fat122 |
| 07:11.49 | brac | fat122 did |
| 07:11.54 | findlay | -chat about fat12 |
| 07:11.54 | brac | fat12 did |
| 07:11.59 | findlay | -chat about fat1234 |
| 07:11.59 | brac | fat1234 had |
| 07:13.15 | tensai | fat12, that brings back painful memories |
| 07:13.34 | tensai | was it CS345 where we implemented it? |
| 07:16.11 | elg | yeah |
| 07:16.19 | elg | in flippin' visual studio |
| 07:21.07 | elg | -chat visual studio |
| 07:21.07 | brac | visual studio one's pretty funny |
| 09:24.31 | elg | woohoo, I have achieved tempogram |
| 09:44.57 | *** join/#utah ti`ocpi (n=ti`ocpi@143-106.dynamicpool.suu.edu) |
| 13:34.23 | goozbach | good morning |
| 13:40.33 | *** join/#utah graphyx (n=graphyx@205.208.245.105) |
| 13:49.35 | *** join/#utah Newsome (n=sorenson@adsl-68-22-220-206.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net) |
| 14:23.23 | *** join/#utah ^Migs^ (n=Migs@205.122.50.69) |
| 14:23.55 | ^Migs^ | here's a nice, safe way to give your girlfriend gonorrhea: http://www.powscience.com/store/giantmicrobes/gonorrhea.html |
| 14:23.58 | brac | [Giant Microbes-Gonorrhea :$5.15 at Pow!Science!] |
| 14:27.38 | graphyx | Thats bad |
| 14:38.55 | goozbach | Awww.....Syphilis |
| 14:40.52 | *** join/#utah spr (n=spr@c-71-195-212-252.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 14:55.30 | ^Migs^ | hahaha: CALGARY, Alberta (Reuters) - A would-be thief proved himself lacking in key skills like reconnaissance and driving after he tried to pull a heist beside a police-dog training site and then got stuck in the snow trying to flee. |
| 14:55.34 | ^Migs^ | I know, that syphilis is adorable |
| 14:57.02 | graphyx | I dont suppose that there is any point in making others. |
| 14:57.41 | graphyx | Once you've seen one enlarged stuff STD microbe you've seen them all. |
| 14:57.52 | ^Migs^ | the beer and bread yeast is adorable: http://www.powscience.com/store/storepics/giantmicrobes/yeast.jpg |
| 14:57.59 | graphyx | s/stuff/stuffed/ |
| 15:02.16 | ^Migs^ | the Flesh Eating Disease comes with a fork and spoon: http://www.powscience.com/store/giantmicrobes/flesheating.html |
| 15:02.19 | brac | [Giant Microbes-Flesh Eating Bacteria :$5.49 at Pow!Science!] |
| 15:05.01 | *** join/#utah Newsome (n=sorenson@adsl-68-22-220-206.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net) |
| 15:18.54 | *** join/#utah jsmith (n=jsmith@000-151-508.area3.spcsdns.net) |
| 15:20.36 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@71-210-218-172.albq.qwest.net) |
| 15:21.02 | elg | hooray for open APs |
| 15:52.16 | *** join/#utah thaddeusq (n=thaddeus@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com) |
| 15:53.37 | emcnabb | so, I'm trying to think of a good hostname for one of my boxes at work |
| 15:53.39 | emcnabb | any ideas? |
| 15:54.11 | graphyx | Green |
| 15:54.47 | emcnabb | I work with someone with the last name of Green, so I'm going to pass on that one |
| 15:55.01 | goozbach | pineapple |
| 15:55.07 | graphyx | Gir |
| 15:55.10 | macnewbold | yeah, pineapple is great |
| 15:55.21 | graphyx | ~emulate Gir |
| 15:55.25 | ibot | i need tacos! i need tacos or i'll explode. that happens to me sometimes. |
| 15:55.25 | macnewbold | do you have an existing naming scheme going on, emcnabb? |
| 15:55.25 | goozbach | emcnabb: have a theme? |
| 15:55.27 | emcnabb | very.... fruity |
| 15:55.30 | brac | have a JoshH vs. JoshC smackdown, which is a lawyer. |
| 15:55.44 | emcnabb | well, for my personal network it is Norse Gods/Godesses |
| 15:55.48 | goozbach | brac: thank you very much |
| 15:55.49 | macnewbold | sweet |
| 15:55.50 | emcnabb | but I might end up changing that arount |
| 15:55.52 | emcnabb | d |
| 15:55.52 | goozbach | oden |
| 15:55.59 | emcnabb | goozbach: have that one |
| 15:56.05 | macnewbold | any theme at work? |
| 15:56.21 | emcnabb | macnewbold: not yet (it's a box on my desk) |
| 15:56.29 | graphyx | Sounds like you have started down the path of idoltry |
| 15:56.38 | goozbach | use, elements |
| 15:56.43 | macnewbold | well, there's greek or roman gods, |
| 15:56.43 | emcnabb | ~curse graphyx |
| 15:56.45 | ibot | May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, graphyx ! |
| 15:56.48 | graphyx | Fasteners |
| 15:56.53 | macnewbold | one place I worked used obscure towns in utah |
| 15:57.11 | macnewbold | their test machines were different synonyms of "unreliable" |
| 15:57.13 | graphyx | Or you could use book of mormon names |
| 15:57.21 | macnewbold | another group was "things on my desk" |
| 15:57.23 | graphyx | Wait that would be the same thing |
| 15:57.41 | graphyx | Mahonri moriancumer |
| 15:57.43 | macnewbold | another group was euphemisms for promiscuous women |
| 15:57.55 | graphyx | Bet you that that one isn't being used yet |
| 15:58.05 | emcnabb | ssh root@Mahonrimoriancumer.redhat.com |
| 15:58.10 | emcnabb | no, too long :-) |
| 15:58.13 | macnewbold | at work now we have island names from polynesia |
| 15:58.17 | graphyx | macnewbold: Were those the domain controllers? |
| 15:58.21 | emcnabb | macnewbold: I kind of like that |
| 15:58.38 | macnewbold | graphyx: not really... just a bunch of boxes named things like fast, easy, cheap, loose, etc. |
| 15:58.45 | emcnabb | haha |
| 15:59.09 | emcnabb | ssh hussy.example.com |
| 15:59.11 | graphyx | emcnabb: then do what ether did and call it brother of Jarod. |
| 15:59.17 | macnewbold | another place I know used mountain peaks |
| 16:00.00 | graphyx | Call it edgerouter32 |
| 16:00.07 | graphyx | Confuse everyone |
| 16:00.22 | macnewbold | or catalyst6509 |
| 16:00.31 | macnewbold | gumstix2 |
| 16:00.41 | macnewbold | ipcamera4 |
| 16:00.50 | macnewbold | cokemachine |
| 16:00.58 | graphyx | blackhole |
| 16:01.01 | macnewbold | the "things on my desk" got to be a lot of fun |
| 16:01.08 | macnewbold | honeypot.example.com |
| 16:01.10 | graphyx | See what stuff people route to you |
| 16:01.15 | macnewbold | devnull |
| 16:01.21 | graphyx | lol |
| 16:01.40 | graphyx | localhost |
| 16:01.41 | emcnabb | maybe I'll just use another Norse god (like my home theme) |
| 16:01.45 | *** join/#utah SpecialZ (n=skraczek@12.191.193.40) |
| 16:01.52 | emcnabb | I haven't used "loki" yet |
| 16:01.58 | graphyx | localhost.redhat.com |
| 16:01.58 | macnewbold | things on my desk had stuff like paper, plastic, coke, cans, pencil I think, and others |
| 16:02.05 | macnewbold | emcnabb: save loki for a good one... |
| 16:02.12 | macnewbold | haha, yeah, localhost |
| 16:02.12 | graphyx | macnewbold: did you forget booger? |
| 16:02.23 | macnewbold | don't think they used that one |
| 16:02.25 | graphyx | tspreport |
| 16:02.28 | macnewbold | it was at a university |
| 16:03.12 | graphyx | Classified.redhat.com |
| 16:03.20 | graphyx | topsecrec |
| 16:03.21 | *** join/#utah neybar (n=jalance@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 16:03.28 | graphyx | topsecret |
| 16:03.41 | macnewbold | secure.redhat.com |
| 16:03.46 | macnewbold | oooh |
| 16:03.50 | macnewbold | mess everyone upand call it www |
| 16:03.51 | macnewbold | or mail |
| 16:03.59 | macnewbold | or ns |
| 16:04.03 | graphyx | that sounds more like an ssl server |
| 16:04.03 | *** join/#utah sargun (n=upirc@h46060ccd.area1.spcsdns.net) |
| 16:04.10 | macnewbold | yep |
| 16:04.11 | macnewbold | :) |
| 16:04.12 | graphyx | wwww.redhat.com |
| 16:04.19 | macnewbold | nice, 4 wwww's |
| 16:04.22 | graphyx | play on the typos |
| 16:04.25 | sargun | anyone here done dvds? making em? |
| 16:04.27 | emcnabb | yeah, I don't think some of those will fly with the helpdesk folks |
| 16:04.33 | sargun | heh |
| 16:04.36 | graphyx | or ww.redhat.com |
| 16:05.00 | sargun | dns wildcards are your friends! |
| 16:05.07 | graphyx | wwwthatthreews.redhat.com |
| 16:05.27 | graphyx | s/that/thats/ |
| 16:05.27 | SpecialZ | w3.redhat.com ? |
| 16:05.30 | ^Migs^ | whoa: http://www.itwire.com.au/content/view/9802/1066/ |
| 16:05.31 | brac | [iTWire - Inter-planetary Internet expands to Mars and beyond] |
| 16:05.39 | sargun | o.O |
| 16:06.02 | graphyx | blueboxalloneword.redhat.com |
| 16:06.31 | macnewbold | cluster.redhat.com |
| 16:06.34 | graphyx | I was wondering if you just gave up on any good help |
| 16:06.43 | macnewbold | call it support |
| 16:14.02 | *** join/#utah wps (n=wps@67.108.236.230.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 16:21.51 | *** join/#utah TimRiker (n=timr@216.49.181.128) |
| 16:21.52 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 16:22.45 | goozbach | eeemceeenaybahbha.redhat.com |
| 16:24.53 | graphyx | Really? |
| 16:24.55 | graphyx | wow |
| 16:24.59 | graphyx | thats long |
| 16:24.59 | *** join/#utah beandog (n=sdibb@gentoo/developer/beandog) |
| 16:25.31 | ^Migs^ | http://thelongestlistofthelongeststuffatthelongestdomainnameatlonglast.com/ |
| 16:25.33 | brac | [The longest list of the longest stuff at the longest domain name] |
| 16:26.37 | *** join/#utah mikearagua (n=mike@webjig.com) |
| 16:27.06 | mikearagua | beandog: i want to try gentoo, i have a dual core amd64 machine, what iso should i download? |
| 16:28.02 | beandog | 2006.1 amd64 livecd |
| 16:28.08 | beandog | Just get the minimal one (its about 100 megs or so) |
| 16:28.21 | beandog | burn it, boot off of it, then download the stage3 and portage snapshot manually |
| 16:28.37 | goozbach | http://www.wemadeoutinatreeandthisoldguysatandwatchedus.com |
| 16:28.42 | beandog | for the record (atoponce asked) I think gentoo has about 11,500 packges. |
| 16:28.44 | beandog | packages |
| 16:29.45 | mikearagua | yo yo goozbach, i'm mike from fslc, if you don't remember this moniker |
| 16:30.51 | mikearagua | beandog: i may just ask you about that when the time comes |
| 16:31.26 | beandog | 11,568 |
| 16:31.37 | beandog | packages. |
| 16:31.38 | beandog | :) |
| 16:32.49 | beandog | bueno |
| 16:35.27 | *** join/#utah Lone_Wanderer (n=chatzill@cg.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 16:36.40 | Lone_Wanderer | Anyone know of a good bayesian, Paul Graham-esque spam filter for Outlook Express? |
| 16:38.53 | dataw0lf | hahaha |
| 16:38.56 | dataw0lf | sorry |
| 16:39.35 | Lone_Wanderer | It's my brother, not me. |
| 16:42.37 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@dhcp17.cs.nmsu.edu) |
| 16:44.28 | goozbach | zup mike |
| 16:46.44 | SpecialZ | Yeah, sure.. . . "It's for a friend" ;) |
| 16:47.45 | *** join/#utah Zelut (n=christer@ubuntu/member/zelut) |
| 16:51.45 | *** join/#utah sjansen (n=sjansen@class1-nat.gurulabs.com) |
| 16:52.06 | sjansen | Okay, I'll but, why did the poor little rats die, levi? |
| 16:52.11 | sjansen | s/but/bite/ |
| 16:52.36 | levi | ... |
| 17:04.03 | sjansen | I'm guessing that they all committed rat suicide because they didn't want to go back to being normal. |
| 17:05.02 | sjansen | That, or it was pure coincidence that they "ate normal food" before dying. The built up so much radiation in their body that they glowed and because they couldn't sleep, eventually they died. |
| 17:05.25 | Lone_Wanderer | Right. It wasn't the radiation, it was that they couldn't sleep. |
| 17:05.29 | SpecialZ | My sister in law cut their heads off with scissors |
| 17:05.37 | levi | Even if the rats died because of the food, it does not mean the food was radioactive. |
| 17:05.46 | Lone_Wanderer | Speaking of which, there's a family in Italy that has a genetic disorder that kicks in (if they have it) in their 50's |
| 17:05.57 | Lone_Wanderer | that makes it so they can't sleep |
| 17:06.11 | Lone_Wanderer | and eventually they die from... not sleeping |
| 17:06.15 | sjansen | Duh, levi, it was _irradiated_. |
| 17:06.33 | levi | sjansen: Meaning it was hit by radiation, not that it was made radioactive. |
| 17:06.45 | levi | Certainly radiation can alter the chemical composition of a substance. |
| 17:06.57 | levi | Any radiation can do that. That's why cooked food tastes yummy. |
| 17:07.08 | sjansen | Radiation makes you radioactive. (Sometimes, if you're lucky, it also gives you super powers.) |
| 17:07.39 | Lone_Wanderer | It gave them to me. |
| 17:07.46 | Lone_Wanderer | But then I got better :( |
| 17:08.43 | sjansen | They don't call it "microwaved" food or "heat lamped food" or "FM 90.8 dangerous disco fridays" food. They call it irradiated food because... because... Stuart's awesome! |
| 17:09.52 | *** join/#utah fozzmoo (n=fozz@166-70-238-250.ip.xmission.com) |
| 17:09.53 | fozzmoo | Hey |
| 17:10.18 | sjansen | Alas, poor fozzmoo, I knew him well. |
| 17:10.49 | levi | sjansen: Well, the Incredible Hulk was created due to gamma radiation, but he wasn't radioactive himself! ;) |
| 17:11.33 | sjansen | You know, I hadn't thought of that. |
| 17:12.09 | sjansen | ... Maybe no one realized one of his powers was to be radioactive without radiating. That could explain it too. |
| 17:12.12 | brac | ... Maybe no one knows 'til Darrel has spoken. |
| 17:12.22 | beandog | The Incredible Hulk is my hero. |
| 17:12.28 | beandog | watch the TV pilot, its great, btw. |
| 17:13.52 | Lone_Wanderer | He's my hero too. He's like a modern day Achilles. |
| 17:14.01 | Lone_Wanderer | i.e. he can kill people and he's mad all the time |
| 17:14.25 | ^Migs^ | at least that's how Brad Pitt portrayed him |
| 17:14.54 | Lone_Wanderer | That's how he was in the Illiad too. |
| 17:15.08 | Lone_Wanderer | Well, mad at Agamemnon anyway. |
| 17:15.23 | ^Migs^ | the Iliad doesn't mention much about Achilles, certainly not enough to indicate he's chronically mad |
| 17:16.31 | Lone_Wanderer | Nope, that's the right one. From Wikipedia... |
| 17:16.46 | *** join/#utah harleypig (n=harleypi@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 17:16.48 | Lone_Wanderer | The first word of the Iliad is μῆνιν (mēnin), "rage" or "wrath". This word announces the major theme of the Iliad: the wrath of Achilles. |
| 17:17.08 | ^Migs^ | my mistake |
| 17:17.12 | sjansen | ~give harleypig a rose |
| 17:17.22 | ibot | ACTION gives a rose to harleypig |
| 17:17.48 | harleypig | How sweet! :* |
| 17:19.25 | ^Migs^ | this is gross. I just noticed a bunch of floaters in my water. |
| 17:20.38 | Lone_Wanderer | Time for more water. |
| 17:23.45 | levi | Man, what a mess the whole food irradiation thing is. All sorts of people claiming it's safe, and all sorts of people claiming it's not. |
| 17:27.44 | emcnabb | I never thought this day would come. I have an extra IDE disk here at work, but don't have a single machine here that even used IDE disks |
| 17:27.45 | Lone_Wanderer | Well, I know how to sort out who's right and who's wrong really quickly. |
| 17:28.08 | Lone_Wanderer | The people who agree with me are right. Those who don't are wrong. |
| 17:29.20 | sjansen | emcnabb: The answer is obvious. Steal from your employer and add it to you growing pile of useless hardware at home. |
| 17:29.57 | emcnabb | ~steal sjansen |
| 17:30.02 | ibot | ACTION grabs sjansen and gives it to emcnabb |
| 17:30.02 | redbeard1 | http://steampunkworkshop.com/keyboard.shtml |
| 17:30.04 | brac | [Steampunk Keyboard Mod] |
| 17:30.12 | emcnabb | yuck, I don't want sjansen |
| 17:30.13 | redbeard1 | i want a keyboard like that |
| 17:30.22 | emcnabb | ~trash sjansen |
| 17:32.07 | sjansen | redbeard1: that is _so_ cool |
| 17:32.29 | sjansen | You've convinced me that when I have an office, I will decorate my office in steampunk. |
| 17:34.30 | beandog | thats pretty freaking cool |
| 17:35.01 | Jayce^ | redbeard1, you know, markl_ and dan here both have that type of keyboard (pre-mod) :) |
| 17:38.36 | redbeard1 | i need an office decked out in steampunk too |
| 17:40.04 | sjansen | Jayce^: You mean had, right? |
| 17:40.16 | Jayce^ | ;-) |
| 17:46.04 | ^Migs^ | is there a way to write a Unix script that will append zeroes to the front of all filenames with less than 6 characters? Or would I need a Perl script for that? |
| 17:46.52 | Lone_Wanderer | Unix script? |
| 17:47.00 | ^Migs^ | a shell script |
| 17:47.03 | Lone_Wanderer | ahh, ok |
| 17:47.25 | macnewbold | it's pretty easy |
| 17:48.14 | levi | You can do quite a lot of programming tasks with shell scripting, but I wouldn't want to. |
| 17:48.15 | macnewbold | you could do it on the command line with perl or sed, or maybe awk |
| 17:48.38 | macnewbold | it boils down to whatever is easiest and fastest is probably the best answer for you |
| 17:51.49 | ^Migs^ | I'd prefer to do it on the command line. Any pointers or commands I should look at that would help accomplish my goal? |
| 17:51.53 | macnewbold | man sed might be a good start, or maybe man awk |
| 17:51.53 | macnewbold | or man perl or man perlre |
| 17:52.04 | ^Migs^ | k, thanks |
| 17:58.59 | levi | Huh. No wonder I couldn't find anything recent about Henry Massalin. Henry is now Alexia. |
| 18:00.44 | harleypig | http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070221/ap_on_fe_st/sword_charge;_ylt=AtD37orTG0Oed.BksqkY0kDtiBIF |
| 18:01.02 | harleypig | Don't go rescuing anyone you hear screaming ... it might be consensual! |
| 18:02.17 | Lone_Wanderer | Oconomowoc right? |
| 18:03.39 | sjansen | pinfo sed |
| 18:10.06 | harleypig | Don't make bet's you don't want to cover: http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/02/08/name.change.ap/index.html |
| 18:10.08 | brac | [Chicago Bears fan begins painful name change - CNN.com] |
| 18:10.21 | harleypig | The men have little in common, Wiese acknowledges.Manning the quarterback is 30 years old, stands 6-foot-5 and has a contract with the Colts worth more than $100 million.Wiese is 5-foot-11 and works at a Staples office-supply store for somewhat less. |
| 18:17.44 | ^Migs^ | "I think I kind of represent all Bears fans," he said. "Not that I'm saying they're all idiots like me, but I represent their passion because I really care about my team, you know?" |
| 18:18.13 | Lone_Wanderer | Never understood that kind of loyalty. |
| 18:19.41 | ^Migs^ | it seems rather misguided |
| 18:19.52 | ^Migs^ | why not be loyal to, you know, your family and friends or something? |
| 18:20.03 | ^Migs^ | something that actually matters in life |
| 18:20.20 | Lone_Wanderer | Exactly. |
| 18:21.09 | Lone_Wanderer | More to the point, loyalty to people you can do things for, and who can do things for you. |
| 18:21.13 | beandog | if youre gonna change it, at leats get something cool. |
| 18:29.33 | redbeard1 | sjansen: here's a scanner to go along with that keyboard: http://www.datamancer.net/projects/optitran/optitran.htm |
| 18:29.36 | brac | [Datamancer.net --The "Opti-Transcripticon" Steampunk Flatbed Scanner mod] |
| 18:30.55 | graphyx | Where did the steampunk genre originate from? |
| 18:32.47 | redbeard1 | graphyx: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steampunk |
| 18:35.15 | redbeard1 | that talks a bit about the origins |
| 18:41.06 | graphyx | redbeard1: thanks |
| 18:41.09 | graphyx | Interesting |
| 18:41.33 | graphyx | I like scifi, but haven't stumbled into that genre much |
| 18:41.58 | redbeard1 | i've hit upon a few things in that genre, and i can't get enough of them. |
| 18:42.59 | graphyx | Did you read the difference engine? |
| 18:43.51 | redbeard1 | i have a copy at home, but i haven't read it yet |
| 18:48.05 | harleypig | ^Migs^: I got something for ya |
| 18:48.10 | harleypig | harleypig@sweetums ~ $ var=test |
| 18:48.10 | harleypig | harleypig@sweetums ~ $ echo ${var/#/$(for i in $(seq 1 $((6-${#var}))) ; do printf 0 ; done)} |
| 18:48.10 | harleypig | 00test |
| 18:48.10 | harleypig | harleypig@sweetums ~ $ var=longer |
| 18:48.10 | harleypig | harleypig@sweetums ~ $ echo ${var/#/$(for i in $(seq 1 $((6-${#var}))) ; do printf 0 ; done)} |
| 18:48.11 | harleypig | longer |
| 18:53.59 | ^Migs^ | whoa |
| 18:54.00 | ^Migs^ | thanks |
| 18:55.01 | harleypig | welcome. unfortunately there is no string multiplier in bash, and the bash guys seem to think its a stoopid idea. *shrug* So, the nested system calls are gonna have to do. |
| 19:11.49 | elg | hey steampunk fans, if you like interactive fiction (a la zork) there's an excellent game in the steampunk genre you can play |
| 19:12.18 | elg | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slouching_Towards_Bedlam |
| 19:12.45 | elg | um, don't read the spoilers there |
| 19:13.33 | elg | this is a better link. http://wurb.com/if/game/2186 |
| 19:13.37 | brac | [Slouching Towards Bedlam] |
| 19:14.40 | *** join/#utah thaddeusq (n=thaddeus@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com) |
| 19:21.42 | levi | There's also a cool little IF to help you learn Lisp. ;) |
| 19:23.57 | graphyx | What is IF? |
| 19:25.22 | graphyx | nvm |
| 19:30.34 | redbeard1 | according to elg, the dorset naga is no longer the world's hottest chile |
| 19:30.39 | redbeard1 | http://www.nmsu.edu/~ucomm/Releases/2007/february/hottest_chile.htm |
| 19:34.20 | ^Migs^ | sweet, my boss is buying me a laptop, and I get to choose the specs |
| 19:38.23 | graphyx | are you going for a laptop or a desktop "need the kitchen sink" replacement? |
| 19:38.50 | beandog | Ill sell you my P2 laptop |
| 19:39.19 | beandog | linux preinstalled, woo hoo |
| 19:41.55 | elg | levi: busy? |
| 19:42.10 | levi | elg: Not terribly. |
| 19:42.27 | elg | let's talk languages |
| 19:42.42 | elg | I think it's time to pick up a language on the side (or at least explore one) |
| 19:42.49 | levi | Ahh, fun. :) |
| 19:43.03 | levi | What are your goals? |
| 19:43.05 | elg | I'm trying to decide between smalltalk, erlang, objectivec, and whatever else I forgot |
| 19:43.38 | elg | i have a bunch of ethereal concepts floating around in my head that I'd like to find root for |
| 19:44.22 | ^Migs^ | what about ruby? |
| 19:44.49 | ^Migs^ | actually I'm trying to get a gaming laptop that isn't so obviously fine-tuned for gaming |
| 19:45.10 | levi | I don't find objective-C very interesting, language-wise. It's a fairly straightforward fusion of the smalltalk object model with C. Its primary virtue is that it lets you do high-level things with a sane object system and low-level things without having to worry about foreign function interfaces and whatnot. That, and the excellent Cocoa libraries on OS X. |
| 19:45.14 | elg | things like distributed/parallel (erlang seems good there), simple and powerful (can it get simpler/more pure than ruby and yet still be powerful/easy to code in) |
| 19:45.16 | ^Migs^ | and use "I have to install a bunch of Java apps" as an excuse to make it high-powered |
| 19:45.41 | elg | ^Migs^: I know ruby well |
| 19:45.50 | ^Migs^ | oh |
| 19:45.58 | elg | but it's good recommendation :) |
| 19:45.59 | ^Migs^ | learn perl |
| 19:46.04 | ^Migs^ | ~migs elg |
| 19:46.06 | ibot | ACTION forces elg to learn perl from ^Migs^ |
| 19:46.15 | elg | basically I want to expand conceptual/paradigm horizons |
| 19:46.28 | ^Migs^ | I've been meaning to learn ruby |
| 19:47.02 | elg | and if it's a useful language too, that's a bonus. that's why I have objectivec there - I get the feeling that it could be a very pragmatic langauge for os x and has smalltalk ancestry |
| 19:47.05 | levi | Smalltalk is very similar to Ruby, so I'm not sure that's the best avenue for growth, though I think it's worth exploring for its simplicity. |
| 19:47.18 | elg | yeah, that's what attracts me to smalltalk |
| 19:47.40 | elg | the hierarchical inheritance (without mixins) and squeak turn me off though |
| 19:48.03 | elg | do you know of a simple CLI-like smalltalk interpreter/compiler/whatever it is |
| 19:48.15 | levi | There's GNU Smalltalk. |
| 19:48.22 | elg | did you read that link I gave you a few days ago, the guy who thought killing software was/would be immoral? :) |
| 19:48.32 | levi | Squeak is really a fine system, though, once you get past its quirks. And it has a mixin concept, too. |
| 19:48.35 | elg | yegge |
| 19:49.02 | levi | I don't recall that particular link, but I end up reading most of Yegge's stuff. |
| 19:49.24 | elg | i see that squeak is really neat. What I don't like is that it's not just neat, it's the only way. |
| 19:49.29 | elg | http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2007/01/pinocchio-problem.html |
| 19:49.41 | elg | good thought provoking article, though I'm not 100% sold |
| 19:49.51 | elg | have you watched erlang the movie? |
| 19:50.06 | levi | Yup. |
| 19:50.20 | elg | I like his ideas on organic growth, talking to the system like an adult, etc. |
| 19:50.31 | levi | If I were to learn a new language, it would probably be Erlang or Haskell. |
| 19:51.22 | elg | but I think implementing a shell, non-rebooting growth, DWIM/QWAN in every software is much too har |
| 19:51.25 | elg | d |
| 19:51.49 | levi | Oh yeah, I read the Pinocchio Problem one a while ago. I can't say I'm 100% behind it (or even 90%), but he's usually got ideas worth considering. |
| 19:51.49 | elg | it would have to be a system that supports that stuff already used to write other "system" (software, etc.) |
| 19:52.13 | elg | but otoh squeak is arguably such a system, and I can't get behind squeak |
| 19:52.18 | ^Migs^ | hmmm |
| 19:52.22 | ^Migs^ | I actually don't agree at all |
| 19:52.24 | levi | Why can't you get behind Squeak? |
| 19:52.39 | elg | when the smalltalk design goals were laid out the idea that there shouldn't be an OS may have been valid |
| 19:53.07 | elg | but these days the "OS" is so sophisticated, and consistency and what people have already learned is so important, |
| 19:53.24 | elg | that abandoning or ignoring it and going your own path (like squeak) is foolhardy |
| 19:53.57 | levi | Squeak didn't abandon anything. It literally is the old Smalltalk-80 system, plus some evolutionary changes. |
| 19:53.59 | elg | unless you want to duplicate the whole of OS X, Gnome, KDE, Windows, whatever, don't go down that road |
| 19:54.02 | *** join/#utah Zelut (n=christer@ubuntu/member/zelut) |
| 19:54.22 | elg | yes, I know. but it's just not an OS (desktop, whatever) I want to work in. |
| 19:54.30 | elg | It's too isolated |
| 19:54.32 | elg | it's way cool |
| 19:54.36 | elg | but too isolated |
| 19:55.50 | elg | i do think that smalltalk and maybe even squeak harbor some of the roots/answers I'm looking for though. Mostly it's about "live"/organic growth of software |
| 19:56.11 | ^Migs^ | learn LOGO |
| 19:56.28 | findlay | yeah, learn LEGO! |
| 19:56.30 | elg | I feel that agile/organic change is good, but it's just a feeling. I'd like to go down that road a ways and see if the feeling gets stronger or weaker |
| 19:56.32 | levi | Common Lisp systems are generally similar in the live/organic feel, though they are somewhat less isolated from their host OS. |
| 19:56.43 | ^Migs^ | http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/02/22/church.foul.language.ap/index.html |
| 19:56.44 | brac | [Police blow up foul-mouthed CDs that blared in church - CNN.com] |
| 19:56.57 | levi | Some of the more commercial Smalltalk systems are also less isolated. |
| 19:56.58 | elg | i suppose that's an option |
| 19:57.32 | levi | Cincom Smalltalk (VisualWorks) is available free for non-commercial use, IIRC. |
| 19:57.52 | elg | in smalltalk land, is smalltalk-80 old or mostly modern? |
| 19:58.39 | levi | The language defined by Smalltalk-80 is pretty much the last standard. The system by that name is pretty old. |
| 19:59.21 | elg | fscript looks promising |
| 19:59.22 | elg | http://www.fscript.org/ |
| 19:59.24 | brac | [F-Script Home] |
| 19:59.46 | levi | Different smalltalk implementations generally have the Smalltalk-80 class structure plus whatever cool new stuff the vendor put in. |
| 19:59.52 | elg | is it much different from the 1998 ansi standard? |
| 20:00.00 | levi | I don't really know. |
| 20:00.12 | levi | Probably not much. |
| 20:00.51 | levi | Modern smalltalk is essentially the same beast as ST-80. The previous smalltalks, like ST-76, were very different. |
| 20:02.07 | elg | my (probably wrong) perception about lisps is that it's very clumsy to manage data. I'm not talking about parentheses, I'm just talking about ... I don't know. I just get this aura of clumsiness. maybe it's that it's different from OOP |
| 20:02.13 | elg | and structs |
| 20:02.46 | levi | Your perception of Lisp is probably highly colored by your experience with Scheme in CS330. |
| 20:02.53 | levi | Common Lisp is a rather different beast. |
| 20:03.14 | levi | For one, it has structs and objects built-in. :) |
| 20:04.00 | elg | objects as in data+methods, i presume. is it static or dynamic? I enjoy message passing. does it feel like message passing? :) |
| 20:04.08 | elg | you're probably right about 330 |
| 20:04.10 | Lone_Wanderer | Who is Steve Yegge? |
| 20:04.21 | elg | a guy that blogs |
| 20:04.30 | elg | at least:) |
| 20:04.31 | Lone_Wanderer | Is he a Utah guy? |
| 20:04.43 | elg | no I don't think so |
| 20:04.48 | Lone_Wanderer | k |
| 20:04.59 | Lone_Wanderer | This bagel is not delicious. |
| 20:05.02 | levi | The Common Lisp Object System (CLOS) is actually not based on message passing, but on generic functions. It's essentially equivalent to message-passing if you only dispatch based on a single argument, but you can also do multiple-dispatch. |
| 20:05.30 | levi | It also has a fairly standard (though not officially standard) meta-object protocol, so you can dynamically modify the way the system works. |
| 20:05.51 | elg | brb |
| 20:07.01 | levi | Lone_Wanderer: Steve Yegge is only really known for his blogs. He blogged while working at Amazon, I think it was, and someone on reddit found it and posted all of them. So now he works at Google and blogs from there. |
| 20:07.41 | *** part/#utah mikearagua (n=mike@webjig.com) |
| 20:09.47 | *** join/#utah tuple (n=fugalh@dhcp08.cs.nmsu.edu) |
| 20:09.51 | tuple | back |
| 20:10.39 | macnewbold | ~welcome tuple |
| 20:10.40 | ibot | Howdy, tuple! |
| 20:12.07 | levi | So, in CLOS, a class only contains data. The methods belong to a generic function, which can be specialized based on class. |
| 20:12.58 | levi | Neither of those really do encapsulation; namespaces are generally handled by the package system. |
| 20:13.37 | *** join/#utah TimRiker (n=timr@pdpc/supporter/bronze/TimRiker) |
| 20:13.37 | *** join/#utah redbeard1 (n=redbeard@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 20:13.37 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by irc.freenode.net |
| 20:13.41 | levi | So depending on how you use it, you could end up writing programs that work very much like a message-passing OOP system, or not so much like it. |
| 20:13.52 | *** join/#utah brac (n=rbot@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 20:14.36 | levi | Common Lisp also doesn't specify that tail-calls must be optimized, so looping is generally not done with recursion. |
| 20:15.05 | levi | Many implementations will perform tail-call optimization if you set the optimization level high enough, though. |
| 20:15.28 | Lone_Wanderer | So basically he wants QWAN that DWIMs. |
| 20:16.00 | elg | student that got the high score on the midterm (way above the average) has abandoned Eclipse and is doing her project in vim+bash |
| 20:16.04 | elg | coincidence? |
| 20:16.11 | levi | It also has a sophisticated condition system that allows you to handle the condition and restart instead of always unrolling the stack. |
| 20:16.24 | Lone_Wanderer | what class elg? |
| 20:16.27 | Lone_Wanderer | and what school? |
| 20:16.31 | elg | 272 - data structures |
| 20:16.33 | Lone_Wanderer | and is she single? I mean... |
| 20:16.35 | Lone_Wanderer | >.> |
| 20:16.54 | elg | similar to 235/6 at byu |
| 20:17.03 | elg | i don't know. maybe. you should come ask her out |
| 20:17.08 | elg | she'll be flattered you came all this way ;-) |
| 20:17.18 | Lone_Wanderer | Where are you located? |
| 20:17.25 | elg | las cruces, nm |
| 20:17.30 | elg | about an hour from Juarez |
| 20:17.36 | Lone_Wanderer | Hmm. |
| 20:17.45 | Lone_Wanderer | It might be worth it for a girl who knows her vim. |
| 20:18.04 | elg | i think she's using my color scheme |
| 20:18.35 | levi | Anyway, Common Lisp has lots of really nice features. |
| 20:19.03 | elg | i do want to do the common lisp journey someday |
| 20:19.12 | elg | but it's not exciting me today |
| 20:19.24 | elg | we could learn erlang together |
| 20:19.38 | levi | That'd be cool. |
| 20:19.50 | elg | then we could make Erlang: The Sequel |
| 20:19.56 | levi | I've wanted to investigate it further for a while now. |
| 20:19.59 | levi | Heh. |
| 20:20.06 | Lone_Wanderer | In a world where nothing is statically typed... |
| 20:20.08 | elg | i love that movie. it's so hilarious |
| 20:20.18 | Lone_Wanderer | One man has the courage to do what it takes |
| 20:20.21 | elg | and I think it's not a joke. from what I can tell it was a presentation they did at a conference |
| 20:20.22 | Lone_Wanderer | to change EVERYTHING |
| 20:20.28 | elg | over and over. then they decided to record it |
| 20:20.41 | levi | Yeah. It's cheezy, but not to the point that the Python movie is. |
| 20:20.52 | Lone_Wanderer | I want a movie trailer that makes fun of movie trailers. |
| 20:20.57 | elg | there is one |
| 20:21.16 | Lone_Wanderer | Well, I mean. That exists for that sole purpose. Without an actual movie to go along with it. |
| 20:21.35 | elg | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kt0RAe9qqXg |
| 20:21.56 | elg | i think that's the one |
| 20:22.25 | elg | ok, so it's between f-script and erlang |
| 20:22.27 | brac | so it's important so that it's something to watch out for a (local) school that is |
| 20:22.52 | elg | i guess a good deciding factor would be which would be most suited to audio processing (then I could use it for my "real" work) |
| 20:23.04 | levi | I think f-script is a cool idea, but I don't see that it would have any pedagogical use to you. |
| 20:23.27 | elg | hmm, might be right |
| 20:24.28 | levi | It may be somewhat closer to Smalltalk than Ruby is, but you already know Ruby, and Ruby also has Cocoa bindings, doesn't it? |
| 20:24.46 | Lone_Wanderer | That was one heck of a trailer. |
| 20:25.02 | elg | levi: yeah, it does |
| 20:25.13 | elg | they used to be a real pain to install, but now they're properly easy |
| 20:25.34 | elg | they/it ... whatever |
| 20:26.33 | levi | I'm particularly interested in seeing how erlang's pattern-matching on binary data works. |
| 20:26.46 | levi | Why's that? |
| 20:27.14 | redbeard1 | wow. national geographic cell phone coming out |
| 20:30.34 | elg | I get to grade java code. I will be the instrument of destruction in training these poor souls in the waterfall and/or Java philosophy |
| 20:30.58 | elg | my grading rubric is quite explicit. taking off points for stuff I would never do myself will no doubt depress me :) |
| 20:31.20 | elg | redbeard1: does it emit animal pheremones? |
| 20:32.04 | redbeard1 | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:36.22 | elg | ~ghost redbeard1 |
| 20:36.34 | elg | weren't you in that movie Redbeard's Ghost? |
| 20:38.52 | findlay | -chat about ghost |
| 20:38.52 | brac | ghost went |
| 20:42.11 | maquis | -chat about ibot |
| 20:42.11 | brac | ibot went |
| 20:42.19 | maquis | -chat about goozbach |
| 20:42.20 | brac | goozbach is currently on #utah. Has said a total of 39 messages. Is idling for 4h 20m 1s, last said: 'Good good'. |
| 20:42.26 | elg | hehe |
| 20:42.27 | maquis | -chat about elg |
| 20:42.27 | brac | elg had |
| 20:42.33 | maquis | -chat about brac |
| 20:42.33 | brac | brac did |
| 20:42.35 | elg | -chat maquis |
| 20:42.35 | brac | maquis is with your charm |
| 20:42.49 | maquis | brac: thank you? |
| 20:42.49 | brac | don't ask me |
| 20:42.54 | maquis | -chat brac |
| 20:42.55 | brac | brac went |
| 20:42.58 | maquis | -chat elg |
| 20:42.58 | brac | elg had |
| 20:43.01 | maquis | -chat blah |
| 20:43.01 | brac | blah was |
| 20:43.04 | maquis | -chat foo |
| 20:43.04 | brac | foo was |
| 20:43.10 | maquis | -chat chat |
| 20:43.10 | brac | chat did |
| 20:43.19 | maquis | -chat asdf |
| 20:43.20 | brac | asdf had |
| 20:43.27 | Lone_Wanderer | -chat about radioactive fruit |
| 20:43.27 | brac | radioactive fruit |
| 20:43.38 | maquis | elg: i think he's b0rk3d |
| 20:43.43 | maquis | -chat b0rk3d |
| 20:43.44 | brac | b0rk3d had |
| 20:43.45 | Lone_Wanderer | Is brac broken? :( |
| 20:43.48 | elg | no, I fixed him |
| 20:43.56 | Lone_Wanderer | -chat about green things |
| 20:43.56 | brac | green things |
| 20:43.57 | maquis | -chat fixed |
| 20:43.57 | brac | fixed is |
| 20:44.00 | Lone_Wanderer | No he's broken :( |
| 20:44.07 | elg | i told him to pick a random second word |
| 20:44.16 | elg | from a set of likely candidates |
| 20:44.19 | Lone_Wanderer | But that's still not the way he used to be. |
| 20:44.21 | elg | i.e. had, did, is, was, went |
| 20:44.23 | findlay | -chat about random word |
| 20:44.23 | brac | random word |
| 20:44.30 | maquis | elg: but it doesn't work |
| 20:44.40 | Lone_Wanderer | He used to repeat stuff he'd heard previously. |
| 20:44.48 | elg | I figure "random word" is no worse than "I can't riff on that word pair, hip?" |
| 20:44.53 | elg | he still does |
| 20:44.55 | maquis | elg: why does he need 2 words? |
| 20:44.56 | elg | -chat repeat stuff |
| 20:44.57 | brac | repeat stuff he'd heard previously. |
| 20:45.04 | elg | that's the way markov chains work |
| 20:45.16 | Lone_Wanderer | Ahhhh, okay. |
| 20:45.25 | Lone_Wanderer | -chat about redbeard's ghost |
| 20:45.25 | brac | redbeard's ghost |
| 20:45.57 | maquis | elg: why can't he just go search through the options that he's got, and see whether there's anothing with the initial word, and then use that to start the cahin |
| 20:46.34 | elg | because the zombie that wrote the plugin used word1+" "+word2 as the key instead of [word1,word2] |
| 20:46.38 | elg | I can't do it efficiently. I did try |
| 20:46.50 | maquis | :( |
| 20:46.51 | elg | I'm probably going to rewrite it when we cover markov chains later this semester in my class |
| 20:47.15 | Lone_Wanderer | I want to have a voice-activated chatbot in my home |
| 20:47.30 | Lone_Wanderer | with speakers and microphones in the walls |
| 20:48.42 | maquis | Lone_Wanderer: on some level, that's *so* sad |
| 20:48.56 | Lone_Wanderer | It'll also have control of the lights, thermometer, and my home's self destruct sequence. |
| 20:49.25 | Lone_Wanderer | So I can say "Computer! Turn up the lights!" |
| 20:49.36 | Lone_Wanderer | It'll be like Star Trek, only without any hostile alience. |
| 20:49.39 | Lone_Wanderer | aliens, too. |
| 20:50.47 | *** join/#utah mheath (n=180b8c49@host112.toad-host.com) |
| 20:51.24 | QBFreak | Lone_Wanderer: I need to get an X-10 interface for my PC so I can do something like that |
| 20:51.42 | Lone_Wanderer | What's X-10? |
| 20:51.51 | QBFreak | what I really want is a giant red button on the living room wall that reads "DO NOT PUSH THIS BUTTON" |
| 20:52.31 | mheath | DON'T PUSH THAT. |
| 20:52.33 | QBFreak | light and appliance switches that you can just plug into an outlet and plug the device into them, they transmit on/off/dim through your existing wiring |
| 20:52.56 | mheath | Hello from Charleston, by the way |
| 20:53.32 | mheath | Took me a week long stay in the hospital, but I'm here and doing OK now. |
| 20:53.37 | Lone_Wanderer | ouch |
| 20:53.40 | Lone_Wanderer | what happened? |
| 20:53.40 | mheath | I'm allergic to pennicilin apparently. |
| 20:53.45 | Lone_Wanderer | Lovely. |
| 20:54.30 | elg | that's a good thing to remember from here on out |
| 20:54.30 | ^Migs^ | whoa, hi mheath |
| 20:54.48 | Lone_Wanderer | Weren't you joining the something? |
| 20:54.57 | mheath | Yeah. |
| 20:55.04 | QBFreak | mheath: I'm allergic too, so much fun |
| 20:55.05 | Lone_Wanderer | Which something? |
| 20:55.07 | mheath | <-- FNEM Michael Heath, USN |
| 20:55.07 | ^Migs^ | Boy Scouts of America? |
| 20:55.16 | ^Migs^ | oh! even better! |
| 20:55.25 | mheath | I'm sitting here at the Naval Nuclear Power Training Command in Charleston South Carolina |
| 20:55.34 | QBFreak | although when my parents found out it wasn't bad enough to put me in the hospital |
| 20:55.47 | Lone_Wanderer | First Nobody on Every M....some word that starts with M and means ship? |
| 20:55.58 | ^Migs^ | have you h4x0red all the Navy networks? |
| 20:56.27 | mheath | Heh. I'm using the free-to-use computers at the arcade |
| 20:56.37 | mheath | I don't know if I'll ever use any official Navy computers during my training here |
| 20:56.54 | mheath | I'm looking at prices for a new computer right now. Leaning towards some kind of Mac.. |
| 20:57.11 | levi | Hi, mheath. |
| 20:57.28 | mheath | Hey, levi. |
| 20:57.29 | Lone_Wanderer | For some reason, using a Mac in the Navy seems very appropriate to me. |
| 20:58.11 | mheath | Well, with bootcamp it's not like they're incompattible or weird anymore, really. |
| 20:59.09 | mheath | Coincidentally.....can Vista run on an intel mac via bootcamp?? |
| 21:00.18 | Jayce^ | yes |
| 21:00.30 | Jayce^ | and in parallels too |
| 21:01.19 | Lone_Wanderer | re: Macs in the Navy. Exhibit one: http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/03/03 |
| 21:01.19 | mheath | One more question: IMac vs MacBook? Hmm.. |
| 21:01.21 | brac | [Penny Arcade! - The Forbidden Fruit] |
| 21:01.37 | mheath | Lone_Wander: Work safe? |
| 21:01.42 | Lone_Wanderer | Yes. |
| 21:01.53 | mheath | Or rather: Safe to look at with a bunch of sailors sitting next to me able to see what I'm looking at? |
| 21:01.56 | Lone_Wanderer | Yes. |
| 21:02.11 | Lone_Wanderer | Exhibit two: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Village_People (You shouldn't even have to open that link.) |
| 21:02.33 | mheath | You suck.. |
| 21:02.36 | Lone_Wanderer | ;) |
| 21:02.46 | mheath | stupid . key is stuck! keeps pressing itself twice. |
| 21:03.00 | mheath | Seriously...MacBook vs IMac? |
| 21:03.10 | Jayce^ | portable vs desktop.. |
| 21:03.14 | levi | Well, the MacBook is clearly more portable. |
| 21:03.18 | mheath | I don't have quite enough to get a Macbook pro, and I think I'm too lazy to wait |
| 21:03.29 | elg | -metar klru |
| 21:03.31 | brac | KLRU 222033Z AUTO 00000KT 10SM CLR 18/M03 A3008 RMK AO2 |
| 21:03.32 | mheath | MacBook pro is a bit too much for my needs through |
| 21:03.34 | levi | You might get more bang for the buck with an iMac, but I haven't really checked lately. |
| 21:03.40 | Jayce^ | macbooks are great, you'll only care for the diff for things like gaming.. |
| 21:03.56 | mheath | Are they capable of 'some' gaming, though? |
| 21:04.01 | Jayce^ | yes |
| 21:04.10 | Jayce^ | but they use an intel graphics chipset... |
| 21:04.11 | levi | elg uses his for flightgear. |
| 21:04.12 | mheath | I don't care about FPS, but the occassional game strikes my fancy.. |
| 21:04.38 | mheath | I won't have much time to game here, though... |
| 21:05.30 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@dhcp08.cs.nmsu.edu) |
| 21:05.35 | elg | -metar klru |
| 21:05.35 | brac | KLRU 222033Z AUTO 00000KT 10SM CLR 18/M03 A3008 RMK AO2 |
| 21:05.41 | mheath | I wonder if Apple offers military discounts... |
| 21:05.43 | graphyx | I would suggest staying away from global thermonuclear war |
| 21:06.39 | levi | mheath: I know they offer student discounts. Are you on to the 'school' portion of your training yet? |
| 21:06.53 | mheath | Yes. Kind of. |
| 21:07.04 | mheath | I'm at school, just doing the indoc stuff right now... |
| 21:07.52 | levi | I'd try that avenue first. |
| 21:12.45 | mheath | They have a central mail office you pick up mail and packages at |
| 21:13.02 | mheath | I wonder if there would be any problem getting something to me that I have to sign for... |
| 21:13.20 | macnewbold | usually _someone_ has to sign for it, not necessarily you |
| 21:17.26 | mheath | My address is too weird and I have too many questions |
| 21:17.54 | mheath | Plus, I think it would be wise to wait a day or too before I decide to spend almost everything I've earned during the past two months.. |
| 21:18.51 | macnewbold | hehe |
| 21:18.55 | macnewbold | usually a wise course |
| 21:22.39 | *** join/#utah eco (n=eco@gnuk.net) |
| 21:24.27 | mheath | well, I'll be back...sometime. |
| 21:24.35 | mheath | I'll hopefully get a computer sometime next week.. |
| 21:24.36 | mrpull | heeeyyyy |
| 21:25.07 | mrpull | findlay's silly GF argument yesterday made me yearn for the mheath days. |
| 21:25.44 | mheath | mrpull: Sorry, I'm leaving. Theres a line for the computer and I've been on for waaay too long... |
| 21:25.54 | mheath | You don't get the full strength of mheath until I get my computer and sign up for internet access in my BEQ. |
| 21:25.59 | findlay | mheath: don't worry, I'll take over for you |
| 21:29.18 | sjansen | http://geekz.co.uk/schneierfacts/ |
| 21:31.32 | goozbach | brac: stop talking about me! |
| 21:31.44 | Jayce^ | sjansen, great stuff |
| 21:32.23 | Jayce^ | Bruce Schneier makes a mean Bearnaise sauce. But you need a password to access it. |
| 21:32.53 | goozbach | ~rot13 Vs lbh nfxrq Oehpr Fpuarvre gb qrpelcg guvf, ur'q pehfu lbhe fxhyy jvgu uvf ynhtu |
| 21:32.53 | ibot | If you asked Bruce Schneier to decrypt this, he'd crush your skull with his laugh |
| 21:33.22 | findlay | wow goozbach can do rot13 in his head! |
| 21:34.32 | goozbach | Bruce Schneier is not balding, you just can't see the encrypted portions of his hair. |
| 21:35.03 | elg | goozbach: is that what's happening to your hair? |
| 21:37.48 | goozbach | elg: somewhat |
| 21:37.57 | goozbach | I'm just phase-shifting it |
| 21:39.59 | Jayce^ | Bruce Schneier knows the state of schroedinger's cat |
| 21:40.40 | Jayce^ | sjansen, you buying the knuth is my homeboy t-shirt/ |
| 21:40.41 | Jayce^ | ? |
| 21:44.40 | ^Migs^ | http://uutah.com/forum/files/att142575.jpg |
| 21:46.00 | *** join/#utah Robdor (n=Robdor@208.187.198.179) |
| 21:46.47 | harleypig | Who is Bruce Schneier and what has he done that I should "just recognize his name" when it pops up? |
| 21:46.49 | SpecialZ | I'm sure findlay will be happy to know my GF knows her vim |
| 21:48.31 | tene | ti`ocpi uses vim. |
| 21:48.45 | ti`ocpi | sometimes .... |
| 21:49.42 | graphyx | harleypig: Big time crypto guru turned security expert. |
| 21:50.09 | harleypig | I gathered from his web page and the pages linking to him |
| 21:52.21 | dataw0lf | big big big time crypto guru |
| 21:52.22 | dataw0lf | Applied Cryptography for the win |
| 21:52.22 | dataw0lf | he designed blowfish, twofish, and several other crypto alogorithms |
| 21:52.49 | dataw0lf | I think he was a Bell Labs guy too |
| 21:54.15 | goozbach | he smart |
| 21:54.24 | goozbach | make goozbach seem dumb |
| 21:54.40 | sjansen | Jayce^: Very tempted to buy it. |
| 21:54.43 | goozbach | pfpfpfpfpfpfpfpftt |
| 21:58.57 | elg | -chat jsmith |
| 21:58.57 | brac | jsmith went |
| 21:59.02 | elg | yes, he did |
| 22:00.43 | sjansen | ~encrypt goozbach |
| 22:07.46 | *** join/#utah Keighvin (n=ptomlins@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 22:09.11 | Keighvin | ~lart Jayce^ |
| 22:11.09 | sjansen | Keighvin: I don't recognize you stranger, but I like the cut of your jib. |
| 22:11.11 | sjansen | ~lart Jayce^ |
| 22:11.52 | Keighvin | sjansen: I'm a pseudo-regular. |
| 22:12.10 | Keighvin | Normally the only one who would bother arguing with mheath. |
| 22:12.11 | sjansen | I'm a regular-pseudo. |
| 22:12.35 | macnewbold | I'm just pseudo |
| 22:13.04 | Keighvin | http://xkcd.com/c149.html |
| 22:13.04 | brac | [xkcd - A webcomic of romance, sarcasm, math, and language - By Randall Munroe] |
| 22:13.17 | *** join/#utah jsmith (n=jsmith@000-151-508.area3.spcsdns.net) |
| 22:14.57 | *** part/#utah sjansen (n=sjansen@class1-nat.gurulabs.com) |
| 22:15.11 | *** join/#utah sjansen (n=sjansen@class1-nat.gurulabs.com) |
| 22:18.56 | *** part/#utah sjansen (n=sjansen@class1-nat.gurulabs.com) |
| 22:25.05 | Lone_Wanderer | Anyone know a good trainable bayesian filter for Outlook Express? |
| 22:25.33 | tene | Lone_Wanderer: spamassassin on the mailserver |
| 22:25.54 | Keighvin | Or you could just forward it all through gmail, let it filter, and pick up the POP access on the back-end. |
| 22:26.12 | Keighvin | That way you have millions of monkeys like me clicking "Spam" and training it for you. |
| 22:26.19 | Lone_Wanderer | I think my brother is an idiot who is not capable of using a command shell without shooting himself in the foot. |
| 22:26.19 | tene | That's... a weird solution. |
| 22:27.18 | Lone_Wanderer | is SA trainable? |
| 22:28.20 | Keighvin | tene: Don't listen too much to me, I'm a GMail fanboy. |
| 22:28.41 | tene | Lame. |
| 22:29.10 | *** join/#utah sjansen (n=sjansen@class1-nat.gurulabs.com) |
| 22:29.29 | tene | Lone_Wanderer: yeah. At my company we have everyone put all their uncaught spam in a spam-mail mailbox on the server and clena that out and train sa-bayes with it every night |
| 22:29.32 | goozbach | http://bash.org/?166078 |
| 22:29.33 | brac | [QDB: Quote #166078] |
| 22:30.43 | Lone_Wanderer | tene: This is for my brother, he's a Windows guy, as evidenced by his use of Outlook Express. I don't trust him to do something that complicated. |
| 22:31.11 | ^Migs^ | would a dual hard drive in a laptop add considerable weight? |
| 22:31.28 | ^Migs^ | I just ordered this laptop here: http://www.justinreeve.com/computer.html |
| 22:31.32 | brac | [Review your dv9000t series PC direct at HP Home & Home Office Store] |
| 22:32.23 | goozbach | a little-known dvorak benefit: http://bash.org/?647279 |
| 22:32.26 | ^Migs^ | cuz I didn't think about how heavy it would be when I ordered it |
| 22:32.29 | brac | [QDB: Quote #647279] |
| 22:32.37 | ^Migs^ | kind of a major oversight |
| 22:33.02 | tene | ^Migs^: it will probably be heavier by the weight of one laptop-size hard drive |
| 22:33.10 | ^Migs^ | gee, really? |
| 22:33.18 | ^Migs^ | I don't even know how much one weighs |
| 22:33.26 | ^Migs^ | what is it, like, 1 lb? |
| 22:33.28 | ^Migs^ | 10 lbs? |
| 22:33.32 | ^Migs^ | 50 lbs? |
| 22:33.35 | tene | ... |
| 22:33.42 | tene | Yes, 50 lbs. |
| 22:33.45 | ^Migs^ | wow |
| 22:34.04 | ^Migs^ | I don't know if I want this thing on my lap lolololololololol |
| 22:34.41 | tene | omglol!!!!! |
| 22:34.47 | ^Migs^ | iknowrite!??! |
| 22:34.52 | *** join/#utah nick125_lappy (n=nick@c-76-18-87-83.hsd1.nm.comcast.net) |
| 22:34.53 | tene | ~lart ^Migs^ in the face |
| 22:35.02 | tene | ~stab migs in the face |
| 22:35.04 | ibot | ACTION runs at migs in the face with an origami Swiss Army knife, and inflicts a nasty paper cut. |
| 22:36.35 | redbeard1 | W00T!!! |
| 22:37.15 | redbeard1 | guess who just got tickets to the mythbusters show at kingsbury hall |
| 22:37.29 | tene | redbeard1: sjansen? |
| 22:37.50 | redbeard1 | ha ha! |
| 22:37.57 | Lone_Wanderer | grrrrrgrgrrgrggg |
| 22:37.58 | tene | redbeard1: emcnabb? |
| 22:38.10 | Lone_Wanderer | DB's like this are all fun and games when you're designing them |
| 22:38.32 | Lone_Wanderer | but when you have to actually start entering data, all of a sudden it's tedious and detail-oriented |
| 22:39.02 | tene | Lone_Wanderer: so write a perl script to do it for you. |
| 22:39.02 | sjansen | I got tickets to the the mythbusters at kingsbury hall?! Where do I pick them up? |
| 22:39.10 | tene | sjansen: at redbeard1's house. |
| 22:39.40 | Lone_Wanderer | tene: the data doesn't exist in any parseable format right now. I just have to read it, think about it, and enter it manually. |
| 22:39.43 | sjansen | ~thank tene |
| 22:39.43 | ibot | no problem, sjansen |
| 22:40.11 | tene | Lone_Wanderer: so enter it in an easily-typable and easily-parsable format and then process it with a small script. |
| 22:40.25 | Lone_Wanderer | Just as much of a pain as doing it the way I am. |
| 22:54.11 | atoponce | goozbach: that's awesome! |
| 22:56.01 | redbeard1 | sjansen: you won't find them at my house. i'm having them mailed to my dad's house. |
| 22:56.20 | atoponce | -go to redbeard1's house |
| 22:57.13 | atoponce | one of these days, it'll work i tell thee! the bots will obey my every command. mwahahaha |
| 22:57.38 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 22:57.59 | levi | Whee, I've almost finished compiling my list of CS self-education resources. |
| 22:58.08 | levi | It's getting pretty lengthy. |
| 22:58.28 | findlay | is the compiler emitting pretty efficient code? |
| 22:59.32 | levi | findlay: What? |
| 23:00.27 | scott_ | levi: is this something you're publishing? |
| 23:01.47 | levi | scott_: I'm probably just going to post it to the PLUG list. |
| 23:02.12 | levi | scott_: I don't have a whole lot of time to devote to it. |
| 23:02.48 | levi | If someone else wanted to htmlify it and make a site out of it, that'd be cool. |
| 23:06.02 | elg | get paid to learn a new language |
| 23:06.13 | elg | while watching things compile |
| 23:06.28 | findlay | I should |
| 23:06.46 | elg | so the tempogram that I wrote yesterday in ruby had a slow inner loop |
| 23:07.19 | findlay | levi: so last night I learned the stable version of mit-lisp doesn't have a x86 64bit port |
| 23:07.20 | elg | I inlined it in C and the runtime for this input went from 2.75 hours to about 15 minutes |
| 23:07.30 | findlay | elg: that's fun |
| 23:07.30 | elg | lesson: optimization good |
| 23:07.44 | elg | but before, when I was just coding it, I did some premature (but simple) optimizations |
| 23:08.01 | elg | they turned out to A) not be the bottlenecks and B) ruin the results |
| 23:08.07 | elg | lesson: optimization bad |
| 23:08.08 | elg | ;-) |
| 23:08.26 | levi | elg: Premature optimzation bad. :) |
| 23:08.33 | levi | optimization, even. |
| 23:08.45 | levi | findlay: mit-scheme, you mean? |
| 23:09.45 | elg | but the most important lesson is that I parsed midi, wrote a .pgm file, and did a bunch of other things in about 145 loc that would have taken me much longer and much more code (and much more frustration) in C/C++/Java |
| 23:10.11 | elg | and the inlined C code is 29 lines |
| 23:10.29 | levi | SICP isn't very demanding of the scheme you use. You could try DrScheme or scheme48 or something. |
| 23:10.36 | elg | lesson: ruby + inlined C rocks the socks off of C |
| 23:10.51 | elg | even if ruby has "performance issues" |
| 23:11.14 | levi | Just about any reasonable language rocks the socks off of C if you actually want to accomplish something. |
| 23:11.17 | elg | unfortunately I haven't learned the lessons yet that will tell me why I'm not getting the output I expect. :) |
| 23:11.39 | elg | levi: yes, true, but it would have not been significantly easier in Java or C++ either |
| 23:11.40 | findlay | levi: yeah |
| 23:11.59 | elg | even though said libraries do exist for those languages |
| 23:12.11 | levi | elg: Among my CS resource links is one to a book called 'Erlang in Real Time', which you might find interesting. |
| 23:12.51 | elg | thanks |
| 23:12.59 | findlay | levi: which scheme would you reccommend? |
| 23:13.39 | levi | elg: http://www.castro.aus.net/~maurice/serc/erlbk/ |
| 23:14.35 | levi | findlay: I found DrScheme to be pretty nice for playing around with SICP exercises. I also like scheme48 and Gambit Scheme. |
| 23:14.56 | levi | findlay: If you don't like the DrScheme gui, you can get the same underlying scheme on the command line with mzscheme |
| 23:16.44 | scott_ | levi: do you use SLIME?] |
| 23:16.49 | levi | elg: And Java/C++ are only semi-reasonable languages. ;) |
| 23:16.53 | levi | scott_: Yup. |
| 23:17.06 | elg | :) |
| 23:17.53 | scott_ | levi, anytime you want a free lunch in return for a SLIME demo let me know :) |
| 23:18.07 | levi | scott_: Are you Lisping again? |
| 23:18.18 | scott_ | levi, nope, but I'm curious what's there |
| 23:18.48 | levi | I'm by no means a SLIME expert, and there are a couple of screencasts floating around that show it off much better than I could. |
| 23:19.10 | scott_ | any links for those screencasts? (googles) |
| 23:19.37 | levi | I don't have links handy, nope. |
| 23:20.05 | levi | elg: Do you know of any simple way to view ps files reasonably in OS X? The auto-conversion in Preview kind of sucks. |
| 23:21.10 | elg | no, it actually doesn't |
| 23:21.19 | elg | afaik there's no better way |
| 23:21.29 | elg | it's just that ps files like that are by nature bad on screen |
| 23:21.29 | macnewbold | levi: a ps2pdf utility might help |
| 23:21.32 | elg | you'll see the same in linux |
| 23:21.49 | elg | because the ps files are not done with fonts, but by raster, iirc |
| 23:22.00 | levi | Hmm. |
| 23:22.02 | elg | if you zoom in the ugliness goes away |
| 23:22.05 | elg | if you print it, it's fine |
| 23:23.07 | macnewbold | ah, so it just isn't antialiased? |
| 23:24.42 | elg | no, I think I was wrong. it's not rastered |
| 23:24.43 | levi | It is, it just looks awful. |
| 23:24.44 | elg | it's a fonts issue |
| 23:24.49 | elg | http://www.physics.ohio-state.edu/~yurh/doc/tex2pdf/ |
| 23:25.05 | elg | it's because of bitmap fonts |
| 23:27.57 | levi | Erlang in Real Time looks readable in Evince, but unreadable in Preview. |
| 23:28.43 | elg | looks like a matter of font rendering. yeah, bitmapped font alone (or rasterization alone) wouldn't cover it |
| 23:29.10 | levi | So, I think it rasterizes it when converting to pdf, or something. |
| 23:29.25 | elg | no, because it prints fine |
| 23:29.43 | elg | it seems just to be that the type3 font engine sucks |
| 23:30.06 | levi | It's probably rasterized at a typical printing dpi. |
| 23:30.15 | elg | perhaps |
| 23:30.23 | elg | but that doesn't explain the same trouble in linux |
| 23:30.31 | elg | even viewing said ps files in gv |
| 23:30.36 | elg | (no conversion) |
| 23:32.19 | levi | Hmm. |
| 23:34.28 | elg | http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe/fonts/outline-vs-bitmap-fonts.html |
| 23:35.09 | elg | it looks to me like the problem is global incompetence in ability to properly downsample high-resolution bitmapped fonts |
| 23:35.29 | elg | that means there's hope |
| 23:35.48 | elg | but it also causes one to despair that this incompetence prevails even still |
| 23:37.20 | levi | It seems that way. |
| 23:37.34 | levi | I just want to be able to read this book on my Mac. |
| 23:37.37 | elg | I keep seeing lots of "solutions" if you already have the .dvi file |
| 23:38.34 | levi | Somehow, Evince manages a reasonable display. |
| 23:38.43 | elg | it's not rocket science |
| 23:48.15 | elg | however you're never going to get as good as a vector font |
| 23:48.20 | elg | but it should be readable |
| 23:48.41 | levi | I don't have room for all of evince's dependencies on my Mac. |
| 23:52.44 | elg | try ps2pdf -dPDFSETTINGS=/screen foo.ps |
| 23:55.44 | levi | Hmm. Apparently Apple uses 'pstopdf' instead of 'ps2pdf', and it doesn't have that option. |
| 23:57.37 | levi | Ahh, that's MUCH better. |
| 23:59.22 | elg | good |
| 23:59.30 | levi | But this MacGhostView looks even better. |
| 23:59.40 | elg | you might also try -dGrayDownsampleType=2 |
| 23:59.52 | elg | (that's bicubic) |
