| 00:00.05 | Lone_Wanderer | are they concealing the fact? |
| 00:00.44 | maquis | sjansen: sells or sold? |
| 00:02.12 | sjansen | sells |
| 00:04.51 | Lone_Wanderer | Perfect timing. |
| 00:05.14 | Lone_Wanderer | Me: "Hmmm, I'd like something a bit bouncier than this." MP3 player: "Here, have some Flogging Molly!" |
| 00:07.32 | tene | yay! |
| 00:09.38 | Lone_Wanderer | Makes me wish I were Irish. |
| 00:09.42 | Lone_Wanderer | And in a pub. |
| 00:09.56 | Lone_Wanderer | And dancing. With redheads. |
| 00:11.43 | macnewbold | hm |
| 00:12.09 | macnewbold | not a redhead though |
| 00:12.15 | macnewbold | close enough for me :) |
| 00:12.34 | Lone_Wanderer | As did I! |
| 00:12.42 | Lone_Wanderer | She was also a redhead. (From a bottle.) |
| 00:13.16 | macnewbold | hm, mine wasn't from a bottle |
| 00:14.12 | Lone_Wanderer | :p |
| 00:47.36 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 00:47.41 | elg | -chat |
| 00:47.42 | brac | who does this code up an example to point to another. |
| 00:49.13 | maquis | -chat |
| 00:49.15 | brac | you wouldn't be overconfident that they even have to work with some other reason? |
| 00:49.27 | maquis | wow... that almost sounded coherent |
| 00:49.37 | maquis | -chat about brac chat |
| 00:49.37 | brac | I can't riff on that word pair. Hip? |
| 01:00.13 | *** join/#utah vontrapp (n=von@72.8.105.222) |
| 01:04.28 | *** join/#utah beandog (n=sdibb@gentoo/developer/beandog) |
| 01:05.24 | *** part/#utah mgeary (n=mgeary@166.70.44.49) |
| 01:06.54 | tene | -chat about chat about |
| 01:06.55 | brac | chat about something like that at some point, he decided to ignore the whole "utah is culturally advanced suggests that the cooks couldn't see internally. |
| 01:15.42 | *** join/#utah Supaplex (n=e@166-70-62-199.ip.xmission.com) |
| 01:15.52 | tensai | -chat |
| 01:15.53 | brac | fc* doesn't have many computer users |
| 01:17.00 | elg | hehe |
| 01:17.09 | tensai | elg: can brac be configured to chat about random topics without prompting? |
| 01:17.28 | elg | how do you mean? |
| 01:17.36 | elg | he already pitches in randomly |
| 01:18.29 | tensai | it seems that he only chats if he sees a word pair he likes |
| 01:18.49 | tensai | can he chat even if the channel is idle? |
| 01:19.04 | tensai | ibot can be set to occasionally throw out a random factoid, that sort of thing |
| 01:19.09 | tensai | make sense? |
| 01:20.50 | elg | possibly |
| 01:21.06 | elg | i'm not sure |
| 01:21.17 | elg | (easily) |
| 01:22.49 | goozbach | bots should only speak when spoken to |
| 01:22.52 | maquis | i just accidentally discovered that ctrl+alt+escape works for "send to back" in windows |
| 01:23.20 | maquis | goozbach: i still disagree with you on that |
| 01:25.39 | tensai | -lart maquis |
| 01:27.43 | beandog | send to back? |
| 01:41.56 | *** join/#utah jsmith (n=jsmith@63.172.80.129) |
| 01:48.28 | *** join/#utah ti`ocpi (n=ti`ocpi@143-106.dynamicpool.suu.edu) |
| 02:04.28 | *** join/#utah Newsome (n=sorenson@adsl-75-0-136-70.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net) |
| 02:11.10 | tene | I agree with goozbach |
| 02:11.46 | *** join/#utah graphyx (n=graphyx@205.208.245.105) |
| 02:14.41 | *** join/#utah rsimpkins (n=rsimpkin@io.ryansimpkins.com) |
| 02:15.40 | elg | bot equality! |
| 02:15.46 | elg | bots are people too! |
| 02:16.25 | elg | seriously, do you like to only "speak when spoken to" |
| 02:16.34 | elg | if everyone did that, nobody would say anything |
| 02:16.54 | elg | why are bots relegated to the dark ages of etiquette? |
| 02:20.41 | tene | ... |
| 02:20.53 | tene | s/bot/asentient automated system/ |
| 02:58.09 | *** join/#utah zerdith (n=zerdith@66-188-62-36.dhcp.bycy.mi.charter.com) |
| 03:01.34 | *** join/#utah stuporglue (n=stuporgl@c-24-2-92-125.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 03:49.30 | levi_home | Man, for some reason, switching to gnus for my email handling has made me a much more prolific email writer. |
| 03:49.58 | levi_home | I wonder if making a blogging client in emacs would get me back into blogging. |
| 03:50.35 | levi_home | Perhaps this is due to some distrust of browser text fields that's been beaten into me through many long years of lost data. |
| 03:51.05 | levi_home | And also the habit I've developed of typing lots of stuff into emacs windows. |
| 03:51.12 | brac | And also adding the offset and count |
| 03:56.02 | tene | argh |
| 03:56.04 | tene | it really bugs me when people say "astericks" instead of "asterisk" |
| 03:57.01 | findlay | asterick? |
| 03:57.37 | findlay | I can say that running your motor vehicle without a muffler is an unpleasant experience |
| 03:58.02 | findlay | it basically turns your exhaust system into a overdriven pipe resonator |
| 03:58.14 | tene | yay, fun! |
| 03:58.34 | findlay | it's probably the closest I'll ever get to running open header |
| 03:58.48 | findlay | and I'll be glad when my new muffler comes |
| 03:59.04 | findlay | my car sounds like a motorcycle |
| 04:07.39 | findlay | levi_home: do you know any good scheme tutorials? |
| 04:08.35 | tene | findlay: I've heard good things about SICP (Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs) |
| 04:08.39 | tene | I think that's scheme |
| 04:08.55 | tene | I'm not motivated enough to check, though |
| 04:09.03 | findlay | tene: can I port it to my car? |
| 04:09.18 | tene | I don't understand the question. |
| 04:09.37 | findlay | can you write a kernel in scheme? |
| 04:09.42 | findlay | for a car? |
| 04:09.46 | findlay | or a toaster |
| 04:10.49 | findlay | tene: thanks, that's the one I'm looking for |
| 04:11.20 | findlay | I heard schemers worship the upside down y letter |
| 04:11.38 | findlay | it's the secret source of there power and sorcery |
| 04:26.03 | tensai | MOO |
| 04:45.20 | findlay | oooohh |
| 04:45.24 | findlay | scary |
| 04:46.02 | levi_home | findlay: SICP is good, but not exactly a Scheme tutorial. What exactly do you want from the tutorial? |
| 04:47.11 | findlay | levi_home: I want a good, thorough education |
| 04:48.28 | levi_home | findlay: SICP is a good place to start, then. |
| 04:48.35 | *** join/#utah neybar (n=jalance@209.210.190.233) |
| 04:48.39 | levi_home | findlay: There are even some video lectures available online. |
| 05:09.56 | thesuperbigfrog | -roulette |
| 05:09.58 | brac | thesuperbigfrog: chamber 4 of 6 => *BANG* |
| 05:10.15 | levi_home | Hello, thesuperbigfrog. |
| 05:10.21 | thesuperbigfrog | hello |
| 05:10.32 | levi_home | How goes? |
| 05:10.47 | thesuperbigfrog | I'm doing alright, just working on some homework. |
| 05:10.55 | thesuperbigfrog | you? |
| 05:11.00 | levi_home | I'm studying for a test. |
| 05:11.05 | levi_home | Sort of. :) |
| 05:11.23 | thesuperbigfrog | I have one myself later this week. |
| 05:15.06 | thesuperbigfrog | ~destroy neverending homework |
| 05:15.20 | ibot | no |
| 05:15.26 | thesuperbigfrog | ~burn neverending homework |
| 05:15.28 | ibot | ACTION pours gasoline all over neverending homework, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze |
| 05:29.14 | *** join/#utah nick125_lappy (n=nick@nat.nick125.com) |
| 05:34.55 | *** join/#utah nick125_lappy (n=nick@nat.nick125.com) |
| 06:07.03 | *** join/#utah sontek (n=sontek@c-67-161-252-206.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 06:18.08 | *** part/#utah dna3e1 (n=dna3e8@72.8.75.81) |
| 06:21.33 | *** join/#utah dna3e8 (n=dna3e8@72.8.75.81) |
| 06:22.06 | dna3e8 | how can I find my ip adress |
| 06:23.54 | Newsome | 72.8.75.81 <-- That one? |
| 06:24.11 | *** join/#utah vontrapp (n=von@72.8.105.222) |
| 06:24.49 | dna3e8 | thanks |
| 06:28.38 | *** join/#utah zerdith (n=zerdith@66-188-62-36.dhcp.bycy.mi.charter.com) |
| 06:32.19 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 06:32.24 | *** part/#utah dna3e8 (n=dna3e8@72.8.75.81) |
| 06:34.20 | thesuperbigfrog | ~kiss brac |
| 06:34.21 | ibot | ACTION forces brac to give Jayce^ a big kiss on the hand |
| 06:47.16 | thesuperbigfrog | ~shoot entity-relationship diagrams |
| 06:47.26 | ibot | ACTION shoots entity-relationship diagrams in the foot with a cork gun! |
| 06:48.01 | thesuperbigfrog | aww, I was hoping for something that would make Rambo proud :( |
| 06:48.23 | thesuperbigfrog | ~nuke entity-relationship diagrams |
| 06:48.25 | ibot | ACTION prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at entity-relationship diagrams ... B☢☢M! |
| 06:51.15 | thesuperbigfrog | echh, it's not the same. Nuclear annihilation just isn't as satisfying as wanton machine gun fire. There's just nothing left. . . |
| 06:51.27 | *** join/#utah Sargun (n=xbmodder@atarack/staff/sargun) |
| 06:51.29 | Sargun | hey |
| 06:51.33 | thesuperbigfrog | yo |
| 06:52.22 | Sargun | thesuperbigfrog, What's up? |
| 06:52.35 | *** topic/#utah by Sargun -> The channel for OSS discussion in Utah | http://www.plug.org/node/28 | #utah stands for Pound for the #utah Techies And Has-beens |
| 06:52.53 | *** join/#utah brac (n=rbot@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 06:53.13 | elg | -chat |
| 06:53.14 | brac | ah - needs to fill all your time is to put the needle down wrong, and you've ruined your record. |
| 06:53.25 | elg | off to bed |
| 06:53.34 | Sargun | brac, is back! |
| 06:55.21 | thesuperbigfrog | Homework that must be done, but I don't really feel like doing. I am enjoying trying to come up with fun new ways for ibot to destroy the homework. |
| 06:56.05 | Sargun | haha |
| 06:56.19 | *** join/#utah ScytheBlade1 (n=Death@about/pxe/ScytheBlade1) |
| 06:57.11 | thesuperbigfrog | burn was fun, shoot was disappointing, and nuke was overkill. Surely there is a destructive, yet satisfying way to get rid of homework. |
| 06:57.26 | Sargun | blend? |
| 06:57.38 | thesuperbigfrog | Will it blend? |
| 06:57.47 | thesuperbigfrog | ~blend oodles of homework |
| 06:57.49 | Sargun | ~blend homework |
| 06:57.55 | Sargun | :-/ |
| 06:58.25 | thesuperbigfrog | It won't blend, there's just too much homework!!! Arggg! |
| 06:58.33 | thesuperbigfrog | :P |
| 06:59.44 | thesuperbigfrog | Well, maybe as I do some of the homework I'll think of other ways. |
| 07:00.14 | Sargun | lol |
| 07:19.26 | tene | -chat about will it |
| 07:19.26 | brac | will it limit the freedoms granted by the same thing on them. |
| 07:25.19 | *** join/#utah mrpull (n=mrpull@205.158.184.126.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 07:26.31 | thesuperbigfrog | ~bury homework |
| 07:26.34 | ibot | ibot dumps 42 tons of dirt, manure, and fish heads on homework |
| 07:31.45 | *** join/#utah TimRiker (n=timr@rikers.org) |
| 07:31.45 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 07:40.42 | Sargun | thesuperbigfrog, How is your homework going? |
| 08:58.08 | *** join/#utah fozzmoo (n=fozz@166-70-238-250.ip.xmission.com) |
| 09:04.04 | *** join/#utah jNb3k (n=jNb3k@c-24-10-178-17.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 09:04.04 | *** join/#utah Zelut (n=christer@ubuntu/member/zelut) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 09:04.04 | *** join/#utah emcnabb (n=emcnabb@draco.mcnabbs.org) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 09:04.04 | *** join/#utah macnewbold (n=mac@cg.dsl.xmission.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 09:04.04 | *** join/#utah jnbek (n=jnbek@c-24-10-178-17.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 09:04.04 | *** join/#utah scott_ (i=scott@crackaddict.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 09:04.04 | *** join/#utah jlp_work (n=jlp@gateway.FREECAKENETWORKS.COM) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 09:04.04 | *** join/#utah synic (n=squish@pdpc/supporter/student/synic) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 09:04.04 | *** join/#utah TheTiGuR (n=chris@206.251.255.218) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 09:41.57 | *** join/#utah jNb3k (n=jNb3k@c-24-10-178-17.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 09:41.57 | *** join/#utah Zelut (n=christer@ubuntu/member/zelut) |
| 09:41.57 | *** join/#utah emcnabb (n=emcnabb@draco.mcnabbs.org) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 09:41.57 | *** join/#utah macnewbold (n=mac@cg.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 09:41.57 | *** join/#utah jnbek (n=jnbek@c-24-10-178-17.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 09:41.58 | *** join/#utah scott_ (i=scott@crackaddict.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 09:41.58 | *** join/#utah jlp_work (n=jlp@gateway.FREECAKENETWORKS.COM) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 09:41.58 | *** join/#utah synic (n=squish@pdpc/supporter/student/synic) |
| 09:41.58 | *** join/#utah TheTiGuR (n=chris@206.251.255.218) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 13:17.41 | *** join/#utah calvarez (n=Hhhhh@r82h185.res.gatech.edu) |
| 13:18.24 | calvarez | hmm, any BYU alumni here? |
| 13:53.26 | *** join/#utah graphyx (n=graphyx@205.208.245.105) |
| 13:57.10 | goozbach | good morning |
| 13:58.03 | *** join/#utah jsmith (n=jsmith@000-150-724.area3.spcsdns.net) |
| 14:14.15 | *** join/#utah ^Migs^ (n=Migs@205.122.50.69) |
| 14:16.21 | redbeard1 | http://www.makezine.com/blog/archive/2007/02/graffiti_resear.html |
| 14:16.22 | brac | [MAKE: Blog: Graffiti Research Lab » L.A.S.E.R. Tag (and HOW TO)...] |
| 14:16.45 | redbeard1 | correct me if i'm wrong, but i think that video was done in boston |
| 14:25.15 | *** join/#utah redbeard1 (n=redbeard@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 14:25.37 | redbeard1 | ~onjoin redbeard1 creme brulee! |
| 14:25.37 | ibot | ok, redbeard1 |
| 14:48.56 | *** join/#utah calvarez (n=Hhhhh@r82h185.res.gatech.edu) |
| 14:49.52 | *** join/#utah Newsome (n=sorenson@adsl-68-22-220-206.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net) |
| 14:56.35 | calvarez | anybody here uses xdmcp? |
| 15:01.43 | goozbach | only on occasion |
| 15:03.09 | calvarez | goozbach, what distro do you use when xdmcp-ing? |
| 15:04.26 | calvarez | brb |
| 15:06.48 | elg | and what occasion would that be? |
| 15:09.47 | *** join/#utah calvarez (n=Hhhhh@r82h185.res.gatech.edu) |
| 15:09.54 | calvarez | back |
| 15:10.02 | calvarez | goozbach, what distro do you use when XDMCPing? |
| 15:10.21 | elg | or perhaps more poignant, what do you do on those occasions? |
| 15:11.14 | calvarez | lol |
| 15:15.02 | *** join/#utah wps (n=wps@67.108.236.230.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 15:17.22 | *** join/#utah phinux (n=phinux@iocane.cs.byu.edu) |
| 15:36.48 | *** join/#utah spr (n=spr@c-71-195-212-252.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 15:51.38 | *** join/#utah neybar (n=jalance@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 16:18.41 | tensai | opinions on Ubuntu Server? |
| 16:19.28 | maquis | tensai: the server install of ubuntu is pretty nice until you want to upgrade to the next ubuntu version |
| 16:19.28 | Jayce^ | think redbeard1 is using it.. if not then neybar has been |
| 16:19.42 | findlay | tensai: what about it? |
| 16:19.54 | maquis | then it tries to install gnome and all those things that you were very specifically ask it not to install when you used the server install |
| 16:20.44 | tensai | findlay: just curious about people's experience with it |
| 16:21.04 | elg | no wonder it would skip so much |
| 16:21.30 | elg | maquis: how do you try to upgrade it that it does that? |
| 16:21.31 | findlay | tensai: seems like a pretty good distro to me. The reliability of Debian with the feel-goodness of ubuntu |
| 16:21.48 | elg | personally I'd rather run debian on a server. ubuntu is nice because of the gui stuff |
| 16:21.55 | elg | you never manage a server with the gui |
| 16:22.04 | elg | so it's better to just have unadulterated debian |
| 16:22.10 | tensai | elg: that's been my opinion so far, but I want to be fair |
| 16:22.15 | maquis | elg: i updated my apt sources, then tried to do an apt-get dist-upgrade |
| 16:22.31 | findlay | maquis: face it. GNOME is just in your future |
| 16:22.36 | elg | :) |
| 16:22.56 | elg | maquis: ok, that sounds like a bug maybe they'll fix it in the future |
| 16:22.57 | findlay | is there a way to safely delete or reset a squid cache? |
| 16:23.04 | elg | or maybe GNOME will have taken over the world by then |
| 16:23.18 | elg | tensai: one benefit i can see is that you have the option of upgrading to an actual release every 6 months or so |
| 16:23.42 | elg | so you don't have to run testing or compile your own stuff if you need to have a fairly recent version of daemon x |
| 16:23.44 | QBFreak | findlay: did you try frying it? I hear its good that way |
| 16:23.56 | levi | Running debian proper, I never really cared much about releases. |
| 16:24.03 | findlay | fried cache squid, hm |
| 16:24.07 | elg | i mostly do testing |
| 16:24.24 | elg | but actually I don't upgrade very much. only when I see a security advisory that effects me |
| 16:24.29 | elg | basically, upgrading it a PITA |
| 16:24.42 | elg | because someone changes config options or whatever and you have to go fix things |
| 16:24.47 | levi | I used to upgrade a lot. Not so much anymore. |
| 16:24.49 | tensai | levi: generally same here, but I still have a number of woody systems which no longer get security patches |
| 16:25.02 | findlay | only then is it elg effectual |
| 16:25.47 | tensai | elgfectual |
| 16:27.10 | redbeard1 | tensai: i've been liking ubuntu server |
| 16:28.12 | tensai | redbeard1: anything in particular? what else have you used? |
| 16:29.24 | Jayce^ | tensai, he was using windowsME before :-p |
| 16:29.46 | redbeard1 | tensai: my site is currently running fc4, and while it works, it's just not comfortable. when i put ubuntu on my home server, everything just felt easier, and the only problem i've had is the learning curve with the debian way of setting up apache |
| 16:29.52 | redbeard1 | ~lart Jayce^ |
| 16:31.01 | redbeard1 | you know, i've never actually met anybody that's admitted to using winme |
| 16:35.47 | elg | i've had to support winme on rare occasion |
| 16:35.51 | elg | -chat |
| 16:35.52 | brac | based on it, and this is insane. going 0311 now is double U |
| 16:36.00 | elg | -metar klru |
| 16:36.02 | brac | KLRU 211634Z AUTO 00000KT 10SM CLR 10/01 A3025 RMK AO2 |
| 16:36.09 | elg | -metar kpvu |
| 16:36.12 | brac | KPVU 211615Z 13006KT 10SM CLR 03/M05 A3009 RMK AO1 |
| 16:41.19 | *** join/#utah zerdith (n=zerdith@66-188-62-36.dhcp.bycy.mi.charter.com) |
| 16:54.27 | levi | redbeard1: I've used WinME. It came preinstalled on my Picturebook and despite my valiant efforts, I couldn't get any other Windows version to work on it. |
| 16:55.20 | redbeard1 | bummer |
| 16:56.45 | levi | Supposedly it was possible to get Win2k working, but... well, it was a difficult laptop. |
| 16:56.54 | levi | Getting Linux on it was extremely painful. |
| 16:57.15 | levi | Not having an internal CDROM drive makes everything harder. |
| 16:57.25 | findlay | ouch |
| 16:57.36 | redbeard1 | yeah, i discovered that with one of my old vaios |
| 16:57.43 | levi | And the external drive I had was not bootable. |
| 17:00.30 | *** join/#utah Lone_Wanderer (n=chatzill@cg.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 17:03.25 | levi | Wow, this guy is nuts. He's got Emacs/ispell/ILisp, LaTeX/BibTeX, GNU Common Lisp/Macsyma, SCM/SLIB/JACAL, gnuplot, and ssh on his WinCE cell phone. |
| 17:03.42 | maquis | levi: cool |
| 17:04.04 | Lone_Wanderer | I just got an email from my brother saying that he's changing his email address to deal with spam. |
| 17:04.15 | levi | maquis: You wouldn't like him, though, because he wrote the Stalin Scheme compiler. ;P |
| 17:04.20 | maquis | levi: lol |
| 17:04.28 | *** join/#utah sjansen (n=sjansen@class1-nat.gurulabs.com) |
| 17:04.37 | maquis | levi: i'm planning on getting some cool tools set up on my ipod once ipodlinux supports my model... |
| 17:04.47 | maquis | i can get vim on my ipod... |
| 17:04.52 | maquis | that's just inherently cool |
| 17:05.02 | levi | Which is this absolutely insane whole-program optimizing compiler. |
| 17:05.09 | levi | maquis: How do you interact with vim on an ipod? |
| 17:05.16 | Lone_Wanderer | So I checked the headers to see what mail client he's using, figuring (since he's a web developer) that he's familiar with things like bayesian filtering |
| 17:05.30 | maquis | levi: there's a lot of options... one of the ones that seems to make the most sense is actually doing text input via morse codde |
| 17:05.36 | Lone_Wanderer | X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 |
| 17:05.37 | maquis | s/codde/code/g |
| 17:06.09 | levi | maquis: If that's the one that makes the MOST sense.... |
| 17:06.31 | levi | At least cell phones have little thumb-boards. |
| 17:06.42 | maquis | levi: there's other ways that make more sense to other people |
| 17:06.43 | levi | And touch screens. |
| 17:06.48 | maquis | but morse seems pretty useful actually |
| 17:06.56 | maquis | because you've got one big button |
| 17:07.12 | maquis | if you want, you can use the scroll-wheel to select each letter too... |
| 17:07.17 | maquis | but that seems annoying to me |
| 17:07.18 | levi | maquis: Indeed. Which makes it fundamentally unsuitable for text entry. |
| 17:07.24 | maquis | levi: true... |
| 17:07.26 | maquis | but think about it |
| 17:07.35 | levi | There is a reason we invented keyboards. |
| 17:07.55 | maquis | how cool is it to have a text-editor, web browser, web server, compiler, python interpreter, etc., all on your mp3 player? |
| 17:08.00 | levi | I don't need to think about Linux on an iPod. It's just stupid. |
| 17:08.02 | Lone_Wanderer | The reason was so that we could write code efficiently |
| 17:08.03 | levi | Not cool at all. |
| 17:08.07 | Lone_Wanderer | so that we could put that code on our ipods |
| 17:08.55 | levi | Having Linux on an mp3 player that happened to have a reasonably-sized screen and some way to attach a keyboard might start to get interesting. |
| 17:09.03 | levi | But on an iPod? No. |
| 17:09.09 | maquis | levi: the videos have a pretty good-sized screen |
| 17:09.14 | Lone_Wanderer | It seems like you could make the USB connector accept a keyboard |
| 17:09.49 | levi | Lone_Wanderer: You might as well buy a used Zaurus or something. They can play mp3s, too. |
| 17:09.56 | levi | And are far cheaper. |
| 17:09.59 | sjansen | If I were to put Linux on an iPod I'd want a media-centric distro. Movies. Music. Maybe very simple PIM features (mostly lookup of data input using a real computer). |
| 17:10.14 | Lone_Wanderer | I bought an ipod the other day :( |
| 17:10.19 | sjansen | A Web server? Vim? Life is too short. |
| 17:10.19 | levi | sjansen: Except the ipod already does that. |
| 17:10.39 | Lone_Wanderer | I plan on cutting up a mentos tin and putting the ipod inside of it |
| 17:10.45 | *** join/#utah harleypig (n=harleypi@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 17:10.50 | Lone_Wanderer | so that nobody will be able to tell, at a glance, that I have fallen from grace |
| 17:10.51 | sjansen | levi: Yeah, but I want to be able to back it up over NFS. ;-) |
| 17:11.22 | macnewbold | if you're gonna hack an Apple device to take linux, make it the iphone ... |
| 17:11.22 | levi | sjansen: Why not with rsync or something? |
| 17:12.38 | levi | macnewbold: No, that will just make it essentially and extremely expensive iPod with Linux. I doubt drivers for the multitouch screen, phone module, etc. would be immediately forthcoming. |
| 17:12.45 | levi | s/and/an |
| 17:12.59 | Lone_Wanderer | That's what reverse engineering is for! |
| 17:13.48 | macnewbold | it already runs osx... why bother with linux? just get it to open up the terminal for yo |
| 17:13.49 | macnewbold | you |
| 17:13.52 | levi | Well, if you're in it to actually do the reverse engineering, knock yourself out. :) |
| 17:14.25 | levi | macnewbold: Indeed, why bother putting linux on it? That was my point. |
| 17:15.03 | levi | There's a very roughly similar Nokia (?) phone that's already running linux and isn't locked down, if you want to hack on a device with that kind of form factor. |
| 17:16.06 | tensai | -chat |
| 17:16.06 | brac | iirc, ubuntu, etc doesn't use a code monkey. |
| 17:17.23 | levi | -chat |
| 17:17.24 | brac | I don't see all those things crawling into people's ear canals in Wrath of homework scorned is a career military man says to use something like a folded knife? |
| 17:19.02 | Lone_Wanderer | I want a PCMCIA thingie that I can put credit cards in. |
| 17:19.23 | Lone_Wanderer | Just a hollow space. |
| 17:19.32 | Lone_Wanderer | That way I can be cool like dataw0lf. |
| 17:19.41 | dataw0lf | very funny LW |
| 17:19.53 | Lone_Wanderer | :D |
| 17:20.13 | Lone_Wanderer | You get that all worked out? New cards issued and whatnot? |
| 17:21.19 | sjansen | ~rebuke |
| 17:23.52 | sjansen | ~rebuke brac |
| 17:23.54 | ibot | ACTION sends a plague of locust to consume brac |
| 17:25.16 | Lone_Wanderer | ~rebuke ibot |
| 17:25.18 | ibot | ACTION sends a plague of locust to consume ibot |
| 17:34.00 | tene | macnewbold, levi: http://openmoko.com/ |
| 17:34.02 | brac | [Index of /] |
| 17:34.20 | tene | Hmm. |
| 17:34.24 | tene | macnewbold, levi: http://www.openmoko.com/ |
| 17:34.24 | dataw0lf | Lone_Wanderer: aye |
| 17:34.28 | brac | [OpenMoko] |
| 17:34.28 | redbeard1 | i want to play with the openmoko |
| 17:36.07 | levi | tene: Right, that's what I was thinking of. Except it's openmoko.org |
| 17:36.37 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@dhcp17.cs.nmsu.edu) |
| 17:36.56 | levi | tene: Well, I guess www.openmoko.com has a little bit of info, too. |
| 17:41.17 | Lone_Wanderer | So far I think Mr. E. has written the most profound post in the education/engineering thread. |
| 17:41.44 | ^Migs^ | what's that link again? http://openmoko.com? |
| 17:41.46 | brac | [Index of /] |
| 17:41.56 | levi | ^Migs^: http://openmoko.org/ |
| 17:41.57 | brac | [Openmoko.org Portal Site] |
| 17:42.03 | levi | Lone_Wanderer: Which one was that? |
| 17:42.34 | Lone_Wanderer | Man pauses, contemplates thinking statue as he comes upon it. Then, turns on mp3 player and continues onward. |
| 17:42.52 | ^Migs^ | wow |
| 17:42.54 | ^Migs^ | openmoko is cool |
| 17:43.12 | Lone_Wanderer | Then again it may just seem profound because it's meaningless, but couched in vaguely eastern phraseology. |
| 17:45.58 | levi | Lone_Wanderer: I don't think it was meaningless, but I'm not sure if I'd call it profound. It was a tangential but true indictment of the lack of deep thought the average 'man' has. |
| 17:46.31 | levi | Heh. |
| 17:46.34 | Lone_Wanderer | I was distracted by a song I like on my ipod. |
| 17:46.39 | Lone_Wanderer | ;) |
| 17:46.41 | ^Migs^ | no I just saw that the web site looked cool and threw around catch phrases like "free your phone" and "the world's first integrated open source resplunctuated comjiggerated interantishifting communications platform" and I immediately assumed openmoko was cool |
| 17:46.51 | *** join/#utah TimRiker (n=timr@216.49.181.128) |
| 17:46.51 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 17:46.54 | elg | levi: do we lack deep thought |
| 17:46.57 | Lone_Wanderer | ^Migs^ got drawn in by buzzwords?!? |
| 17:47.07 | elg | or do we simply lack the moments of serenity to engage in it? |
| 17:47.24 | ^Migs^ | Lone_Wanderer: And the neat orangey graphics |
| 17:47.31 | Lone_Wanderer | ohhh, orangey graphics. |
| 17:47.32 | tensai | or have we simply thought of everything already? |
| 17:47.40 | levi | elg: Well, certainly we all (or most of us, I hope) have the capacity. |
| 17:47.48 | Lone_Wanderer | Okay I am putting off working on this DB schema because it's ugly and there's no really good way to draw it. |
| 17:47.59 | Lone_Wanderer | I shall now cease my procrastination. |
| 17:48.32 | macnewbold | hehe |
| 17:48.45 | macnewbold | paper/whiteboard work well for drafting it |
| 17:50.38 | levi | elg: I think the general theme of Mister E's posts was that the student is primarily responsible for their own education, and the man distracting himself with the iPod instead of taking the opportunity to think was a metaphor for the main problem with education today. |
| 17:50.38 | ^Migs^ | wtf, someone ate my lunch! |
| 17:50.39 | levi | ^Migs^: KILL! |
| 17:50.39 | ^Migs^ | I had a Michelina's Lean Gourmet microwaveable dinner and it's gone! |
| 17:50.54 | elg | ^Migs^: it was probably you |
| 17:51.01 | Lone_Wanderer | ^Migs^: I am available for contract assassination work at a very reasonable rate. |
| 17:51.03 | elg | you've been known to eat your lunch for breakfast |
| 17:51.15 | elg | levi: mister ed is a chronic nonconformist |
| 17:51.27 | elg | remember when he refused to capitalize or use punctuation? |
| 17:51.34 | levi | Heh. |
| 17:52.21 | ^Migs^ | no, this was not eaten by me |
| 17:52.39 | ^Migs^ | 'twas SABOTAGE |
| 17:52.49 | elg | can you be sure? you might have a compulsory inattentive eating disorder |
| 17:53.09 | levi | Sounds more like theft than sabotage. |
| 17:53.20 | levi | Though I kind of liked that Beastie Boys song. |
| 17:53.27 | brac | Though I am. |
| 17:53.33 | elg | making precision incisions so that your lunch spills all over your lap when you go to eat it is sabotage |
| 17:56.30 | tensai | ^Migs^: Lean Gourmet? you're probably better off |
| 17:57.02 | Lone_Wanderer | Mr. Ed sounds like a really interesting character. |
| 17:58.01 | Jayce^ | odd duck is the correct term.. |
| 17:58.24 | Lone_Wanderer | That's what I said. Interesting character. |
| 17:58.30 | Jayce^ | :) |
| 18:00.00 | findlay | heh |
| 18:00.19 | levi | Has he ever shown up for PLUG meetings? |
| 18:00.29 | Jayce^ | a couple times |
| 18:00.50 | levi | What's he do? |
| 18:01.04 | findlay | harleypig went to high school with Mr E |
| 18:01.05 | Jayce^ | works for agoracart |
| 18:01.15 | macnewbold | ^Migs^, tensai: stay away from Lean Gourmet... total waste of money/time/food/tastebuds |
| 18:02.01 | findlay | levi: web hosting and other services primary and ancillary to web commerce |
| 18:02.04 | macnewbold | agoracart: online shopping and delivery service for agoraphobics |
| 18:02.36 | Lone_Wanderer | That's not really what it is, is it? |
| 18:03.02 | harleypig | Just cause I went to OHS *and* Mr E did too does not mean OHS produces weirdos. |
| 18:03.22 | Jayce^ | well, statistically speaking.... |
| 18:03.26 | harleypig | Lone_Wanderer: It's a shopping cart software package. |
| 18:03.42 | Lone_Wanderer | k |
| 18:03.47 | tensai | harleypig: 2 for 2 though |
| 18:03.50 | Lone_Wanderer | though I like Mac's answer better. |
| 18:03.54 | elg | harleypig: i think it's a proven that ohs produces weirdos |
| 18:04.09 | elg | does ohs produce only weirdos? does it produce mostly weirdos? that's an open question |
| 18:04.13 | harleypig | who else do you know from ohs? |
| 18:04.15 | tensai | macnewbold: don't worry about me. I'd rather go hungry (which incidentally is the plan for today). |
| 18:04.19 | Lone_Wanderer | -chat about OHS produces |
| 18:04.19 | brac | OHS produces weirdos |
| 18:04.24 | Lone_Wanderer | It is now doctrine. |
| 18:04.25 | harleypig | :D |
| 18:04.47 | findlay | harleypig: OH as in Orem High? |
| 18:04.52 | tensai | didn't they rename OHS to UVCC a while back? |
| 18:04.58 | tensai | can I get a rim shot? |
| 18:05.14 | findlay | ~rim shot |
| 18:05.19 | findlay | ~rimshot |
| 18:05.21 | ibot | ch-ch-chhh |
| 18:05.21 | harleypig | findlay: Yeah. |
| 18:05.24 | findlay | one of those ought to do it |
| 18:05.27 | findlay | there we go |
| 18:05.33 | findlay | harleypig: my mom went there |
| 18:05.33 | harleypig | tensai: I'll give you a raspberry |
| 18:05.39 | harleypig | findlay: when? |
| 18:06.21 | Jayce^ | harleypig, even worse, findlay might learn something *he* doesn't want to know.. |
| 18:06.45 | findlay | so did Kurt Bestor, and Jack Christensen, and the BYU former Football coach, and Merril Jenson (I think) |
| 18:07.15 | findlay | harleypig: late 60s early 70s |
| 18:07.44 | harleypig | *whew* |
| 18:07.48 | findlay | heh |
| 18:07.54 | harleypig | Yeah, Kurt Bestor's mom was my english teacher. |
| 18:08.09 | findlay | harleypig: my sister-in-law had her too (-: |
| 18:08.43 | findlay | I guess back in the days they had a pretty sweet band there |
| 18:09.21 | tristanbob | what is the best program to burn cds in gnome? (other than gnome-baker) |
| 18:09.22 | harleypig | I ... don't remember. In high school I was into football, wrestling, radio and computers. Nobody knew what to do with me. |
| 18:10.13 | findlay | tristanbob: did you try the default nautilus app? |
| 18:10.38 | elg | tristanbob: that fork of cdrecord is best, of course |
| 18:10.46 | findlay | I always just use k3b |
| 18:10.57 | tristanbob | findlay: I think gnome-baker is the default |
| 18:10.58 | Jayce^ | harleypig, we still don't know what to do with you |
| 18:11.05 | tristanbob | it works ok, but I want more options |
| 18:11.10 | findlay | k3b is pretty much the best cd/dvd writer GUI there ever was |
| 18:11.24 | elg | cdrkit |
| 18:11.33 | elg | http://cdrkit.org/ |
| 18:11.34 | harleypig | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:11.35 | brac | [cdrkit - portable command-line CD/DVD recorder software] |
| 18:11.36 | elg | ~cdrecord |
| 18:11.38 | ibot | Allows the creation of both audio and data CDs. URL: http://www.fokus.gmd.de/research/cc/glone/employees/joerg.schilling/private/cdrecord.html |
| 18:12.04 | elg | ibot, no cdrecord is <reply>You don't want cdrecord. You want cdrkit. http://cdrkit.org/ |
| 18:12.05 | ibot | okay, elg |
| 18:12.06 | brac | [cdrkit - portable command-line CD/DVD recorder software] |
| 18:13.37 | elg | How weird is that. one of the developers of cdrkit is also named Jörg |
| 18:13.47 | elg | the lead dev even |
| 18:14.28 | findlay | cd writing technology is just meant for guys named J?rg |
| 18:15.32 | elg | Jörg, not J?rg |
| 18:16.40 | findlay | J?rg != J?rg? |
| 18:17.31 | elg | < findlay> J?rg != J?rg? |
| 18:17.35 | elg | false |
| 18:17.43 | findlay | interesting |
| 18:17.56 | elg | But Jörg != J?rg is true |
| 18:18.08 | levi | Clearly there are some character encoding issues going on. :) |
| 18:18.10 | findlay | a most novel paradox |
| 18:18.17 | elg | not really a paradox |
| 18:18.25 | elg | unless you're on the broken end :) |
| 18:18.27 | findlay | I know, but it sounded fancy |
| 18:18.34 | findlay | indeed |
| 18:19.19 | levi | So, Alan Kay and Viewpoints Research got a grant to work on a new programming system. |
| 18:19.31 | elg | define system |
| 18:20.10 | levi | Well, the grant proposal is right here: http://www.vpri.org/html/work/NSFproposal.pdf |
| 18:22.20 | sargun-screen | Ack! PDF! |
| 18:22.27 | sargun-screen | Why can't people use postscript? |
| 18:22.52 | tristanbob | sargun-screen: who uses postscript? |
| 18:22.52 | elg | um, what's wrong with pdf? |
| 18:23.02 | tristanbob | pdf is going to be a standard... |
| 18:23.06 | elg | pdf is just as usable as postscript ever was, on all platforms |
| 18:23.16 | elg | it's just as capable |
| 18:23.33 | sargun-screen | Me. |
| 18:23.50 | elg | and you don't have font issues like you can get in postscript (mostly older postscripts, but it's oh-so-annoying when you are downloading papers and come to a postscript one that is all but illegible on screen) |
| 18:24.14 | tristanbob | http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/pressroom/pressreleases/200701/012907OpenPDFAIIM.html |
| 18:24.16 | brac | [Adobe - Adobe Press Room: For immediate release] |
| 18:24.20 | tristanbob | Adobe to Release PDF for Industry Standardization |
| 18:24.31 | elg | btw, anyone who hasn't discovered Google Scholar should take a look |
| 18:24.32 | sargun-screen | elg: The unofficial client doesn't always work, as it renders documents incorrectly, and the official client has some spyware in it |
| 18:24.46 | elg | 'the unofficial client'? |
| 18:24.58 | levi | sargun-screen: People use PDF because it's better than postscript for sending formatted electronic documents to humans. |
| 18:25.00 | elg | 99% of PDFs don't use crazy stuff |
| 18:25.05 | brac | People use them in a firefight in mopp3 |
| 18:25.17 | elg | gv and/or xpdf handle 99% of pdfs just fine |
| 18:25.26 | elg | and whatever other gnome/kde branded viewers there are |
| 18:25.43 | levi | postscript was designed to send formatted electronic documents to printers. |
| 18:25.48 | elg | cups even prints pdfs directly |
| 18:25.52 | sargun-screen | And creating a PDF under windows is such a pain. |
| 18:26.01 | elg | well, that's not our problem |
| 18:26.09 | sargun-screen | If you don't have the official Adobe Suite. |
| 18:26.12 | elg | creating postscript is even more of a pain |
| 18:26.30 | levi | Doing ANYTHING with postscript on Windows is a pain. |
| 18:26.30 | elg | sargun-screen: it's very not hard to set up a pdf "printer" that will print pdf to a file |
| 18:26.31 | elg | without adobe software |
| 18:27.01 | sargun-screen | elg: How do you do that, which driver to you select? |
| 18:27.13 | ^Migs^ | since when is pdf NOT a standard? |
| 18:27.15 | sargun-screen | Or virtual printer |
| 18:27.33 | elg | google turns up so many results I can't even remember which is the one I use |
| 18:27.34 | elg | d |
| 18:27.36 | sargun-screen | ^Migs^: Several years ago, I'd say around 2000-2001 |
| 18:27.48 | sargun-screen | elg: Which one is decent, and not spyware ridden |
| 18:28.06 | ^Migs^ | I think you'd have to be a real jerk not to like PDF |
| 18:28.07 | elg | this one looks like a start |
| 18:28.07 | elg | http://www.pdfforge.org/products/pdfcreator/ |
| 18:28.13 | tristanbob | sargun-screen: that link above |
| 18:28.26 | sargun-screen | Loking at it. |
| 18:28.26 | elg | what i was using I think was something to do with CUPS. some PDF driver that would then feed to cups, but could be used alone |
| 18:28.27 | tristanbob | elg: beat me to it |
| 18:28.28 | sargun-screen | er |
| 18:28.29 | sargun-screen | Looking |
| 18:28.33 | levi | From the pdf: "This opens the exciting possibility of creating a practical working system that is also its own model – a whole system from the end-users to the metal that could be extremely compact (we think under 20,000 lines of code) yet practical enough to serve both as a highly useful end-user system and a “system to learn about systems”. I.e. the system could be compact, comprehensive, clear, high-level, and understandable enough to be an “Explorator |
| 18:28.33 | levi | ium of itself”." |
| 18:29.45 | elg | sargun-screen: that one is OSS and has some softpedia guarantee, so it's probably pretty safe |
| 18:29.46 | sargun-screen | I'll play with it, and see if it will replace my current solution. |
| 18:29.49 | *** join/#utah phinux (n=phinux@iocane.cs.byu.edu) |
| 18:29.52 | elg | i know a better way to avoid spyware though |
| 18:30.05 | sargun-screen | elg: Install Linux :-P |
| 18:31.38 | elg | you catch on quick |
| 18:32.22 | sjansen | The single most important features of PDF compared to Postscript is that PDF was designed for random access. I don't want to render 500 pages to see what's on page 501. |
| 18:32.56 | elg | levi: so hardware, os, and software? |
| 18:33.01 | elg | or is it just soft? |
| 18:33.12 | levi | There is no spyware in Acrobat; there is a javascript interpreter. The 'spyware' is embedded in the PDF. |
| 18:33.18 | levi | elg: Just software, I think. |
| 18:33.21 | sjansen | That, and the PDF file format is just rocking sweet. |
| 18:33.31 | levi | elg: Including OS-level stuff, I think, but I'm not sure. |
| 18:33.43 | levi | You can also turn off the javascript interpreter in acrobat. |
| 18:33.44 | elg | and 'PDF' is more cuddly than 'PS' |
| 18:33.53 | *** join/#utah jsmith (n=jsmith@000-150-724.area3.spcsdns.net) |
| 18:34.00 | elg | sounds interesting. I'd like to see the results |
| 18:34.24 | levi | elg: Here are some links about it: http://www.peerbox.com:8668/space/Albert |
| 18:35.01 | levi | I was watching a colloquium-style presentation on it the other day, but it was streaming-only and I got interrupted in the middle of it. |
| 18:35.22 | levi | Time for a bike ride. |
| 18:36.14 | goozbach | sjansen: did you find your grep bug? |
| 18:36.39 | goozbach | or your Qsxga(sp?) lenovo laptop? |
| 18:36.40 | sjansen | Nope. Just noted it and moved on with my life. |
| 18:37.44 | sjansen | Looks like they don't have any qxga available at the moment. Found a PDF that lists ever available model (not just what's on the Web site). On Dax's advice (and because it fits my financial plans) I'm waiting until May-ish. |
| 18:38.06 | goozbach | I'm looking at an upgrade myself |
| 18:38.23 | goozbach | it's going to be another T series, or a powermac |
| 18:38.38 | sjansen | Sounds like Intel should have a Centrino release with 802.11n some time in April. |
| 18:39.27 | sjansen | And the rumor sites say Lenovo should have a T series with wuxga some time around then too. |
| 18:40.15 | macnewbold | I'm looking for a laptop that has a very compact projector instead of a lcd screen (or in addition to, perhaps) |
| 18:40.22 | macnewbold | just find a wall, and you're ready to go |
| 18:40.41 | macnewbold | and if you're presenting something, piece of cake |
| 18:40.56 | macnewbold | </joke type='unfunny'> |
| 18:41.54 | ^Migs^ | that was an improperly closed tagged |
| 18:41.55 | ^Migs^ | *tag |
| 18:43.01 | tristanbob | FYI - Graveman looks pretty cool - I will give it a try |
| 18:43.06 | tristanbob | (for burning cds) |
| 18:48.24 | tristanbob | http://graveman.tuxfamily.org/index.php |
| 18:52.02 | *** join/#utah fozzmoo (n=fozz@65.89.234.66) |
| 19:02.17 | tristanbob | I recommend using checkgmail over gmail-notify. Anyone agree? |
| 19:02.28 | ^Migs^ | Absolutely. |
| 19:03.24 | ^Migs^ | graveman has limited DVD capabilities |
| 19:04.34 | tristanbob | is there any better way to get notifications of calendar events? |
| 19:05.46 | jsmith | tristanbob: google has a calendar API -- shouldn't be too hard to build something |
| 19:06.23 | tristanbob | jsmith: I guess I am more concerned with my groupwise calendar |
| 19:06.34 | tristanbob | I use evolution, which has a basic notifier |
| 19:06.42 | tristanbob | but it is unreliable |
| 19:06.43 | jsmith | Yeah... |
| 19:06.53 | jsmith | Evolution, unreliable?!? |
| 19:07.07 | tristanbob | and reliablility is an important function of calendar reminder |
| 19:07.18 | jsmith | Funny thing... I fired up Evolution today for the first time in months... and it didn't crash |
| 19:07.25 | jsmith | (but my internet connection did) |
| 19:07.39 | jsmith | So what's the first thing I did... I blamed Evolution |
| 19:15.18 | ^Migs^ | stupid Evolution |
| 19:15.40 | ^Migs^ | use Mutt instead |
| 19:16.51 | macnewbold | s/Mutt/Pine/ |
| 19:16.53 | macnewbold | ;) |
| 19:17.25 | ^Migs^ | s/macnewbold/wacky/ |
| 19:22.42 | tene | s/^Migs^/stabintheface/ |
| 19:22.53 | ^Migs^ | I just upgraded to Apache FOP 0.93 from 0.20 and it's completely broken my PDF servlet |
| 19:23.31 | ^Migs^ | aren't upgrades supposed to...you know...not suck? |
| 19:25.24 | graphyx | You jumped .7 in revision and expected everything to just work like it did at the start? |
| 19:25.24 | ^Migs^ | THEY jumped .7 in revision |
| 19:25.37 | ^Migs^ | there's no FOP 0.21 thru 0.89 |
| 19:25.39 | tristanbob | darn marketing department |
| 19:26.01 | ^Migs^ | like how Winamp jumped from v3 to v5. It's just all a giant marketing ploy. |
| 19:26.17 | atoponce | ~market ^Migs^ |
| 19:26.38 | jsmith | ^Migs^: I thought it was working for you... |
| 19:26.56 | ^Migs^ | it was when I opened it in XMLSpy, but the Java implementation needs altering |
| 19:27.09 | jsmith | ^Migs^: And the reason the version number jumped was because they completely rewrote it |
| 19:27.14 | ^Migs^ | yeah I know |
| 19:27.25 | ^Migs^ | and the rewrote spanned at least .7 versions |
| 19:27.28 | jsmith | ^Migs^: Let me know if you get it working... I've got another need for FOP all of the sudden |
| 19:27.30 | ^Migs^ | s/rewrote/rewrite/ |
| 19:27.39 | graphyx | ^Migs^: and ms went from 3.1 to 98!!1 that was so wrong! and then 98 to 2000!!! that was even bigger! |
| 19:27.55 | ^Migs^ | I found some samples of using the new Java classes here: http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/xmlgraphics/fop/trunk/src/java/org/apache/fop/servlet/FopServlet.java |
| 19:28.14 | ^Migs^ | I agree, graphyx. Microsoft is the guiltiest overmarketer of all |
| 19:28.50 | ^Migs^ | btw, it was 3.1 -> 95 -> 98, not 3.1 -> 98 |
| 19:28.59 | graphyx | right |
| 19:29.00 | ^Migs^ | and wtf is ME and XP? |
| 19:29.13 | ^Migs^ | those aren't even version numbers!?!?! What's next? Weird alien symbols? |
| 19:29.27 | tristanbob | the artist formerly known as prince |
| 19:29.29 | jsmith | The version formerly known as 5.0? |
| 19:29.33 | atoponce | beat me to it |
| 19:29.36 | jsmith | tristanbob: Great minds think alike! |
| 19:29.49 | tristanbob | jsmith: yours was better :) |
| 19:29.49 | atoponce | the os formerly known as vista |
| 19:29.56 | graphyx | or fools never differ? |
| 19:30.05 | jsmith | graphyx: What exactly are you saying? |
| 19:30.20 | tristanbob | EULA me once, shame on you. EULA me twice, shame on me. |
| 19:30.37 | graphyx | just that those two phrases are interesting to say side by side. |
| 19:31.06 | jsmith | -chat about just that |
| 19:31.08 | brac | just that bzflag...is ugly lookin |
| 19:31.12 | tene | ~eula |
| 19:31.14 | ibot | methinks eula is End User License Agreement |
| 19:31.16 | tene | ~EULA |
| 19:31.17 | ibot | i heard eula is End User License Agreement |
| 19:31.24 | brac | i heard brac is back (gone 02:00:48) |
| 19:31.37 | tene | ~EULA!!! |
| 19:31.39 | atoponce | -back brac |
| 19:31.50 | jsmith | -malloc brac |
| 19:32.10 | tene | ~i |
| 19:32.12 | ibot | hmm... tene is Tenebram, or the king of pirate, or my god, or chocolate frosted sugar bombs, or a liar, or more winningish than goozbach, or evil, or the ML master |
| 19:32.28 | tene | ~j |
| 19:32.29 | ibot | PicoBot: k |
| 19:32.41 | atoponce | picobot? |
| 19:32.46 | tene | *shrug* |
| 19:32.58 | graphyx | ~ |
| 19:32.59 | Supaplex | ~eula is also the "End" of the "User" License Agreement, as MSFT sees it. |
| 19:33.00 | ibot | Supaplex: okay |
| 19:33.54 | *** join/#utah tuple (n=fugalh@dhcp08.cs.nmsu.edu) |
| 19:38.01 | tuple | -chat |
| 19:38.02 | brac | Formations are helpful. Critical. |
| 19:38.55 | sjansen | ~silence brac |
| 19:38.57 | ibot | ACTION shoves an apple in brac's mouth, shoves a spit through ... well, uhm, anyway ... then builds a nice fire and starts roasting |
| 19:54.38 | tuple | ~whack sjansen |
| 19:54.39 | ibot | ACTION whacks sjansen upside the head. |
| 19:56.23 | redbeard1 | ~lart tuple |
| 19:57.47 | jsmith | ~tuple tuple |
| 19:58.18 | redbeard1 | ~elg elg |
| 19:58.21 | ibot | ACTION sandwichmaps elg. |
| 20:02.14 | *** join/#utah acrid (n=mckay@reverse.control4.com) |
| 20:15.23 | sjansen | ~call jsmith |
| 20:15.25 | ibot | ACTION looks around and then screams out jsmith as loudly as possible |
| 20:16.17 | emcnabb | ~poo sjansen |
| 20:16.18 | ibot | ACTION summons a troop of flying monkeys to fling their poo at sjansen |
| 20:16.19 | sjansen | Someone should add SIP support to ibot. |
| 20:16.24 | sjansen | ~monkey emcnabb |
| 20:16.26 | ibot | ACTION flings poo at emcnabb |
| 20:16.34 | jsmith | sjansen: YES? |
| 20:16.39 | jsmith | ~scream |
| 20:16.40 | ibot | aaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhh!!! |
| 20:17.23 | emcnabb | so, I tinkered a bit with Asterisk this weekend |
| 20:17.29 | tene | you lie |
| 20:17.34 | tene | dirty communist pig |
| 20:17.46 | jsmith | emcnabb: w00t! |
| 20:17.56 | sjansen | tene: What emcnabb means is he beat up an old lady and stole her Asterisk server this weekend. |
| 20:17.59 | emcnabb | jsmith: I read several chapters from your book |
| 20:18.01 | tristanbob | hooray! ntfs-3g is finally stable |
| 20:18.02 | tene | Oh. |
| 20:18.02 | emcnabb | good stuff |
| 20:18.05 | tene | I can believe that. |
| 20:18.18 | sjansen | tristanbob: No, it's 1.0. Only time will tell if it's stable. |
| 20:18.19 | jsmith | emcnabb: Even cooler... by the time you finish, the next edition will be out. |
| 20:18.20 | tene | emcnabb: good job on being a productive capitalist. |
| 20:18.30 | tristanbob | check out the website: http://www.ntfs-3g.org/index.html |
| 20:18.38 | tristanbob | "The driver is in STABLE status." |
| 20:18.46 | emcnabb | jsmith: when is that? I want to buy a hard copy, but I don't want to be outdated too quickly |
| 20:18.53 | emcnabb | tene: thanks |
| 20:19.18 | jsmith | emcnabb: Rough Cut version in the next week or so, production version in a month or so |
| 20:19.32 | jsmith | emcnabb: (Assuming things go OK with the proofing/typesetting/etc.) |
| 20:19.33 | emcnabb | jsmith: wow, very soon |
| 20:19.44 | jsmith | emcnabb: Yeah, the current book is getting out of date |
| 20:20.00 | elg | jsmith: new one covers 1.4? |
| 20:20.11 | jsmith | elg: Of course! |
| 20:20.15 | elg | sweet |
| 20:20.19 | jsmith | elg: Wouldn't make sense to have it cover 1.2 now, would it |
| 20:20.26 | elg | will it be downloadable also? |
| 20:21.00 | jsmith | Yup |
| 20:21.01 | sjansen | Will it be implantable? Surgically or via nasal spray? |
| 20:21.43 | elg | wunderbar |
| 20:21.43 | *** join/#utah neybar (n=jalance@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 20:21.55 | elg | sjansen: you can incnerate it and smoke it |
| 20:22.11 | emcnabb | sjansen: I'd be more than willing to shove the entire book up your nose, little by little |
| 20:22.24 | jsmith | emcnabb: I'd sign it first if you did... |
| 20:22.28 | emcnabb | haha |
| 20:22.30 | sjansen | elg: You no, I tried doing that with my Calculus book, but it didn't work. |
| 20:23.18 | elg | well, your expectations were skewwed. you wanted to learn calculus. what really happened was you got the derivative taken of yourself |
| 20:24.38 | graphyx | From the Gaim homepage "This means that you can be chatting with friends on AOL Instant Messenger, talking to a friend on Yahoo Messenger, and sitting in an IRC channel all at the same time" |
| 20:24.52 | graphyx | Even the devs know that most people lurk. |
| 20:25.46 | jsmith | graphyx: Of course they do! |
| 20:26.13 | graphyx | Just thought that that was a little funny |
| 20:29.18 | goozbach | I'mma gonna have to re-buy the asterisk book now. |
| 20:29.19 | goozbach | dang |
| 20:29.35 | jsmith | goozbach: Naw, that's what tax dollars are for |
| 20:29.47 | jsmith | goozbach: Or come to one of my training classes, and I'll give you a copy |
| 20:29.57 | goozbach | jsmith: if the state buys it, I don't get to keep it |
| 20:30.32 | goozbach | when/where are YOUR classes? I know I asked a while back but I really want to get my DCAP. |
| 20:32.26 | jsmith | All over the world, all the time... http://www.sokol-associates.com/?q=node/59 |
| 20:32.44 | jsmith | That link shows all of our different classes/locations/times |
| 20:34.00 | goozbach | all of those, YOU are teaching? |
| 20:34.02 | goozbach | :) |
| 20:34.38 | jsmith | No, thank goodness |
| 20:34.48 | jsmith | I teach on average one class a month |
| 20:35.50 | ^Migs^ | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJDyYZoyh0o |
| 20:39.12 | goozbach | you've got one in miami starting monday, right? |
| 20:40.48 | jsmith | Right. |
| 20:43.48 | goozbach | it's sad that it's probally easier for me to go to San Diego than miami. |
| 20:44.25 | elg | something against miami? |
| 20:48.41 | goozbach | no, nothing, it's just a cheaper plane ticket from tally -> SD than tally -> miami on such short notice |
| 20:49.00 | elg | really? |
| 20:49.00 | jsmith | I'll be teaching the one in San Jose in April... come to that one! |
| 20:49.18 | elg | there's no regional airlines that you could book directly? |
| 20:49.50 | elg | there was one from denver to santa fe, for crying out loud |
| 20:50.10 | elg | they don't usually fill up, so prices probably don't fluctuate so much |
| 21:01.31 | goozbach | elg: I'm being fecious |
| 21:01.42 | goozbach | miami is danged expensive |
| 21:01.49 | elg | ~dict fecious |
| 21:02.08 | elg | feroious maybe |
| 21:02.12 | elg | ferocious even |
| 21:02.15 | levi | facetious, I assume. |
| 21:02.19 | fozzmoo | heh. |
| 21:02.30 | *** join/#utah tristanbob (n=tristan@oalug/member/tristanbob) |
| 21:02.33 | elg | hopefully not fecesious or something |
| 21:02.44 | levi | Yeah, that would be gross. |
| 21:02.49 | goozbach | vecesious |
| 21:02.55 | goozbach | pineapple |
| 21:02.59 | goozbach | bah my head hurts |
| 21:03.02 | goozbach | time for sleepy |
| 21:03.07 | elg | my eye stingeth |
| 21:03.09 | goozbach | woot! four o clock |
| 21:03.34 | elg | levi: I'm watching the alan kay video |
| 21:03.41 | elg | he moves kind of slow, but it's interesting |
| 21:04.02 | levi | elg: I don't think I've seen that one yet. |
| 21:04.23 | elg | the could computing be simpler one |
| 21:04.26 | sjansen | goozbach: Quick, hide! |
| 21:04.32 | *** join/#utah thaddeusq (n=thaddeus@class1-nat.gurulabs.com) |
| 21:04.48 | goozbach | methinks I'm just going to go home |
| 21:04.52 | brac | methinks I'm just conversing. |
| 21:05.00 | goozbach | brac: you sure are |
| 21:05.03 | tene | -chat about bots should |
| 21:05.03 | brac | bots should only speak for having my headlights off once |
| 21:05.17 | goozbach | what? |
| 21:05.18 | tene | brac: don't speak unless spoken to |
| 21:05.40 | sjansen | tene: don't speak unless spoken to |
| 21:05.50 | tene | sjansen: go die in a hole |
| 21:05.55 | goozbach | sjansen: nobody spoke to you |
| 21:05.58 | elg | or on a hill |
| 21:06.00 | sjansen | -chat about tene's broccoli |
| 21:06.00 | brac | I can't riff on that word pair. Hip? |
| 21:06.12 | elg | but not on level ground, dude |
| 21:06.12 | tene | -chat about sjansen's giraffe |
| 21:06.14 | brac | I can't riff on that word pair. Hip? |
| 21:06.21 | jsmith | -chat about I could |
| 21:06.21 | brac | I could have been more nebulous |
| 21:06.22 | Lone_Wanderer | -chat about towel location |
| 21:06.22 | brac | I can't riff on that word pair. Hip? |
| 21:06.32 | jsmith | -chat about alter ego |
| 21:06.32 | brac | I can't riff on that word pair. Hip? |
| 21:06.53 | Lone_Wanderer | My towel's location is currently unknown, but it's velocity is precisely C. |
| 21:06.56 | sjansen | -chat about goozbach sing |
| 21:06.56 | brac | I can't riff on that word pair. Hip? |
| 21:06.57 | tene | -chat about eater ceiling |
| 21:06.57 | brac | I can't riff on that word pair. Hip? |
| 21:07.04 | Lone_Wanderer | -chat about towel location |
| 21:07.04 | brac | I can't riff on that word pair. Hip? |
| 21:07.20 | Lone_Wanderer | :( |
| 21:07.20 | sjansen | -chat about goozbach singing |
| 21:07.20 | brac | I can't riff on that word pair. Hip? |
| 21:07.24 | Lone_Wanderer | -chat about sjansen's beard |
| 21:07.24 | brac | I can't riff on that word pair. Hip? |
| 21:07.28 | sjansen | -chat about brac riffs |
| 21:07.28 | brac | I can't riff on that word pair. Hip? |
| 21:07.31 | levi | elg: I enjoyed his lecture he gave at the U last year as part of the Organick Lecture Series. |
| 21:07.41 | Lone_Wanderer | -chat about waiting for your boss to get off the phone |
| 21:07.41 | brac | incorrect usage, ask for help using 'brac: help chat' |
| 21:08.00 | elg | heh. he just said something about universities teaching "pragmatic" langauges and being more like trade schools than real computer science |
| 21:08.08 | elg | at about 1:02 |
| 21:08.10 | sjansen | -attack ibot |
| 21:08.13 | tensai | -chat about lambda calculus |
| 21:08.14 | brac | lambda calculus has two interfaces. vlan1 is the business |
| 21:08.36 | sjansen | ~attack brac |
| 21:08.38 | ibot | ACTION grabs a pen, screams like she's possessed, and begins chasing brac |
| 21:11.19 | Lone_Wanderer | oohh, ibot is female |
| 21:11.31 | levi | Sometimes. |
| 21:11.33 | tensai | ~gender |
| 21:11.43 | ibot | I'm gay |
| 21:11.53 | tensai | ~literal gender |
| 21:11.55 | ibot | "gender" is "<reply> I'm (gay|lesbian|female|sexless|male|hermaphroditic|pregnant|not sure)" |
| 21:11.58 | Lone_Wanderer | ibot: sexuality != gender |
| 21:12.04 | levi | elg: Yeah, he's been saying that kind of thing for a while now. |
| 21:12.29 | levi | elg: He was quoted in ACM Queue saying something to the effect that too many school were Java trade schools now. |
| 21:12.33 | Lone_Wanderer | ibot: sexuality is not equal to gender |
| 21:12.34 | ibot | ...but sexuality is already something else... |
| 21:12.43 | Lone_Wanderer | hmm |
| 21:12.48 | Lone_Wanderer | Dare I ask? |
| 21:13.01 | Lone_Wanderer | ~sexuality |
| 21:13.02 | ibot | [sexuality] a characteristic possessed by humans, not bots. See http://www.sexuality.org/ for details. |
| 21:13.05 | brac | [Society for Human Sexuality] |
| 21:13.13 | Lone_Wanderer | Ahh. |
| 21:13.26 | elg | ibot, no gender is <reply> I'm (female|male|hermaphroditic|pregnant|not sure)" |
| 21:13.27 | ibot | cannot alter locked factoids, elg |
| 21:13.37 | graphyx | That could have been a lot worse than that. |
| 21:13.46 | Lone_Wanderer | Indeed it could have. |
| 21:13.56 | graphyx | ~ftw |
| 21:13.57 | ibot | [ftw] wtf backwards, or for the win |
| 21:17.59 | ^Migs^ | ~gender |
| 21:18.00 | ibot | I'm female |
| 21:18.35 | ^Migs^ | ~sexuality |
| 21:18.36 | ibot | i heard sexuality is a characteristic possessed by humans, not bots. See http://www.sexuality.org/ for details. |
| 21:18.39 | brac | [Society for Human Sexuality] |
| 21:19.44 | Lone_Wanderer | Incidentally, "gender" used to refer only to words, not people. |
| 21:23.21 | levi | Lone_Wanderer: But then you'd have to use the word 'sex' to talk about whether a person was male or female. 'Gender' is so much less threatening. |
| 21:23.35 | ^Migs^ | ~sex |
| 21:24.33 | ibot | updatedb; locate; talk; date; cd; strip; look; touch; finger; unzip; uptime; gawk; head; apt-get install condom; mount; fsck; gasp; more; yes; yes; yes; more; umount; apt-get remove --purge condom; make clean; sleep, or super extractor, http://sf.net/projects/sex/ |
| 21:24.35 | Lone_Wanderer | levi: precisely |
| 21:24.35 | ^Migs^ | I think I speak for everyone when I say that sex is indeed threatening |
| 21:24.38 | brac | [SourceForge.net: sEx - Super Extractor] |
| 21:30.19 | ^Migs^ | I found out what that thing is in my stomach. It's a tumor. |
| 21:31.21 | Lone_Wanderer | Who did you ask? |
| 21:31.22 | levi | Benign, I hope? |
| 21:31.35 | ^Migs^ | Yes |
| 21:31.39 | Lone_Wanderer | Wheeee |
| 21:31.45 | Lone_Wanderer | So do they just go cut it out, or what? |
| 21:31.45 | ^Migs^ | A lymphangioma or something like that |
| 21:31.53 | ^Migs^ | no, they just leave it in, unless it becomes too uncomfortable |
| 21:32.03 | Lone_Wanderer | k |
| 21:32.15 | ^Migs^ | just thought you would like to know |
| 21:32.28 | ^Migs^ | who do you think I asked? |
| 21:32.33 | ^Migs^ | a certified physician |
| 21:32.42 | Lone_Wanderer | mmkay |
| 21:32.45 | Lone_Wanderer | good choice |
| 21:33.14 | ^Migs^ | I was going to ask a monkey at the zoo, but I figured you'd disapprove. |
| 21:34.00 | Lone_Wanderer | That was my first thought, actually. |
| 21:34.24 | Lone_Wanderer | But I personally don't know sign language, and posing the question in terms of "eek!"s would be a bit difficult. |
| 21:34.33 | ^Migs^ | agreed |
| 21:35.17 | *** join/#utah beandog (n=sdibb@gentoo/developer/beandog) |
| 21:42.05 | *** join/#utah brac (n=rbot@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 21:55.58 | ^Migs^ | is there an official RSS schema? |
| 21:56.00 | brac | is there a plug meeting next week |
| 21:56.59 | Jayce^ | ok, when even brac starts saying it..... |
| 21:57.20 | ^Migs^ | hahaha |
| 21:57.53 | redbeard1 | -lart brac |
| 21:58.53 | Supaplex | pwnage |
| 21:59.23 | sjansen | ~pwn redbeard1 |
| 21:59.25 | ibot | ACTION logs into the machine redbeard1 is sitting at and pulls a fast one. |
| 22:00.10 | redbeard1 | prank of the day: pick up a bunch of dcon rat poison boxes and set them up in various places around the office before anybody gets into work. |
| 22:00.23 | redbeard1 | it's better than walking into somebody's office with a measuring tape. |
| 22:00.57 | ^Migs^ | you could put toy rats in them, too |
| 22:01.12 | redbeard1 | w00t! |
| 22:01.18 | levi | elg: You still watching the video? |
| 22:03.57 | elg | finished it |
| 22:04.02 | elg | -chat alan kay |
| 22:04.02 | brac | alan kay said about Ubuntu - it resolves to .msn.com? |
| 22:04.15 | elg | -chat goozbach |
| 22:04.16 | brac | goozbach Manson's |
| 22:06.12 | goozbach | manson? |
| 22:06.16 | goozbach | -chat elg |
| 22:06.17 | brac | elg duodenum's |
| 22:08.10 | goozbach | is there anything else? |
| 22:08.22 | goozbach | brac: chat about is there |
| 22:08.46 | levi | elg: What'd you think? |
| 22:09.26 | elg | cool ideas |
| 22:09.39 | elg | i think we definitely need something |
| 22:10.05 | *** join/#utah brac (n=rbot@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 22:10.15 | levi | elg: I saw a lot of the demos in person and got to chat with him when he was here. It was really cool. |
| 22:11.35 | levi | elg: The Princeton video is pretty interesting, too. It talks more about the cola system they're working on. |
| 22:21.32 | *** join/#utah brac (n=rbot@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 22:23.37 | *** join/#utah bonez39 (n=bonez@drjones.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 22:23.42 | levi | elg: Sounds like there may be some new hardware involved, too. That'd be cool, as long as it's not tied to it. |
| 22:26.08 | elg | cool |
| 22:26.10 | elg | -chat sjansen |
| 22:26.10 | brac | Is sjansen ever truly happy? |
| 22:26.39 | elg | sigh, that was too hard. this markov plugin was written by a zombie |
| 22:26.52 | elg | when we cover markov in class I'll probably rewrite it as an excercise |
| 22:26.58 | elg | and then it'll be Cool⢠|
| 22:27.19 | levi | Heh. |
| 22:32.53 | herlo | ~lart goozbach |
| 22:33.20 | herlo | ~kitten sjansen |
| 22:33.57 | herlo | ~hurl dataw0lf |
| 22:34.49 | dataw0lf | aiiiiiiiiiiiiie |
| 22:34.51 | dataw0lf | sup herlo |
| 22:36.03 | sjansen | ~puppy herlo |
| 22:36.22 | *** join/#utah brac (n=rbot@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 22:38.20 | *** join/#utah brac (n=rbot@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 22:38.56 | elg | -chat sjansen |
| 22:38.56 | brac | sjansen was about to say than "I've been there", but that's no longer has picture, I think that's the opposite end of the issues very well why do people tell me, in which case the first chapter. |
| 22:39.08 | elg | -chat about pineapple |
| 22:39.08 | brac | pineapple had |
| 22:39.35 | elg | -chat about goozbach |
| 22:39.35 | brac | goozbach went |
| 22:40.10 | sjansen | Pineapple had a bad day. Actually, a ninth bad day in a week of bad days. It all started when Pineapple's mother called... |
| 22:44.16 | goozbach | heh |
| 22:46.22 | herlo | goozbach: pm... |
| 22:53.13 | *** join/#utah jsmith (n=jsmith@000-150-724.area3.spcsdns.net) |
| 22:56.47 | elg | oh my. i can't think of anything I'd like less than to type "CMakeLists.txt" frequently |
| 22:58.57 | tristanbob | what is a good sftp client in linux? |
| 22:58.59 | levi | elg: What's that from? |
| 22:59.12 | tene | tristanbob: what is "good" for you? |
| 22:59.18 | elg | apparently cmake's equivalent of a makefile |
| 22:59.25 | elg | or a configure.in or whatever |
| 22:59.28 | tristanbob | tene: gui - simple |
| 22:59.45 | elg | i was skimming a kde dev's intro to cmake |
| 22:59.47 | tene | tristanbob: if you use Gnome or KDE, the file manager can handle sftp just fine. |
| 22:59.49 | tristanbob | tene: quick - efficient |
| 22:59.52 | elg | which kde4 is using as its build system |
| 23:00.01 | tristanbob | tene: using gnome |
| 23:00.50 | tene | tristanbob: choose 'connect to server' from the menu somewhere. |
| 23:01.08 | tristanbob | I don't see sftp |
| 23:01.12 | tristanbob | ftp, ssh, etc |
| 23:01.34 | levi | elg: Hmm. |
| 23:01.56 | ^Migs^ | I'm reading more and more blogs where husbands say their wives get mad at them after watching The Notebook, cuz their relationship isn't a fairytale romance |
| 23:02.03 | ^Migs^ | my wife did that to me, and it's good to know I'm not alone |
| 23:02.04 | levi | elg: Chicken Scheme has a cmake build now, too. Apparently it's much nicer than GNU make when building on both Linux and Windows. |
| 23:02.47 | elg | well, i get the impression that it (can) generate gnu makefiles |
| 23:02.55 | elg | i think it's intended as an autotools replacement |
| 23:02.59 | levi | Hmm. |
| 23:03.19 | levi | Well, it would be hard to make something worse to use than autotools. |
| 23:03.28 | elg | definitely |
| 23:03.47 | elg | alas, it _is_ hard to make something as powerful as autotools overnight |
| 23:03.53 | levi | So, the 'Golden Box' thing Alan Kay was talking about in his presentation seems to be the 'Albert' system. |
| 23:03.55 | elg | scons tried but imho they failed |
| 23:04.01 | elg | scons is too inflexible |
| 23:04.31 | levi | I've never learned autotools in depth. The m4 macros scare me. |
| 23:04.43 | tristanbob | ^Migs^: I agree - it sets an unrealistic example for us men |
| 23:04.46 | levi | Crazy Unix people. |
| 23:04.46 | elg | cmake is the buzz these days, but time will tell. I guess I'll take a look at it and see someday |
| 23:04.56 | tristanbob | ^Migs^: it is like guys watching porn |
| 23:05.06 | elg | m4 really isn't too bad. autotools is scary for much more fundamental reasons |
| 23:05.21 | tristanbob | tene: BTW - filezilla is working well for sftp |
| 23:08.59 | ^Migs^ | yeah, it's hypocrisy |
| 23:09.12 | ^Migs^ | and poor naive women, they fall for it |
| 23:09.41 | *** join/#utah SpecialZ (n=skraczek@12.191.193.40) |
| 23:09.47 | ^Migs^ | the problem is that girls' heads are in the clouds. They're not grounded in the real world like we men are. |
| 23:09.51 | elg | that's when you watch a horror flick where the guy is a sadistic loser |
| 23:09.59 | elg | and say "aren't you glad I'm not like that" |
| 23:10.03 | ^Migs^ | haha |
| 23:10.57 | elg | levi: have ou watched the Building your own dynamic language is fun and easy! talk? |
| 23:11.13 | elg | I can't get it to work on my mac, I'm going to have to try mplayer on linux386 |
| 23:11.41 | levi | elg: Is that the Princeton lecture one? I got quite a ways into it before I had to go to a meeting, and I'm not sure if there's an easy way to seek to the middle of it. |
| 23:14.01 | elg | i downloaded the whole vid with mplayer -dumpstream |
| 23:14.24 | elg | took some fanagling |
| 23:14.30 | elg | to find the right url |
| 23:14.45 | elg | it's the EE380 Stanford one by Ian Piumarta |
| 23:14.55 | elg | given on valentines day |
| 23:15.07 | levi | Ahh, yup, that's the one. |
| 23:15.54 | levi | I didn't remember the -dumpstream option. I'm trying that now. |
| 23:18.08 | levi | After reading a bit of the m4 manual, I think two things: what could have been if m4 was the standard C preprocessor, and I'm very happy I know about Lisp macros now so I don't feel the need to investigate preprocessing C with m4. |
| 23:18.57 | elg | why is it that the most powerful tools are the ugliest? |
| 23:19.00 | elg | usualy |
| 23:20.09 | maquis | elg: what do you consider ugly? |
| 23:21.12 | Lone_Wanderer | re: The Notebook - my GF got mad at me yesterday because I was merely happy to see her, as opposed to being happy to see her *and* expressing it in the way she wanted me to. |
| 23:21.17 | brac | The Notebook - my GF wants an office |
| 23:22.47 | *** part/#utah harleypig (n=harleypi@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 23:23.24 | levi | elg: I don't think it's necessarily the most powerful that are the ugliest. I think it's the most successful. |
| 23:23.33 | levi | elg: Part of the 'worse is better' phenomenon. |
| 23:26.19 | levi | elg: Unix, for example, is ugly and powerful and beat out many beautiful and powerful systems by virtue of its 'flaws', which made it portable and hackable. |
| 23:26.21 | tene | Lone_Wanderer, ^Migs^: that's rather disturbing. |
| 23:26.29 | Lone_Wanderer | like the Lisp machines, levi? |
| 23:26.55 | Lone_Wanderer | tene: I agree completely. |
| 23:28.46 | tene | Quote from talking to my girlfriend about this issue: |
| 23:28.52 | tene | name: I don't expect our relationship to be a fairytale |
| 23:28.53 | tene | name: I grew out of that |
| 23:30.07 | findlay | ugh |
| 23:30.11 | Lone_Wanderer | That doesn't mean she wouldn't *like* it to be one. |
| 23:30.18 | tene | That is true. |
| 23:30.43 | levi | Lone_Wanderer: Among other things. |
| 23:31.00 | findlay | because it equates to expending emotional energy on somebody else's wife |
| 23:31.07 | findlay | unless that's your lifestyle, I guess |
| 23:31.18 | Lone_Wanderer | somebody else's wife? |
| 23:31.22 | levi | findlay: At least until you find one that becomes your wife. |
| 23:31.50 | findlay | levi: I don't think having a girlfriend is an essential step in getting married |
| 23:31.51 | rsimpkins | "You can't always get what you want, but if you try some times, you just might find, you get what you need." |
| 23:32.22 | levi | findlay: Well, not strictly essential, but the alternatives seem unlikely. |
| 23:32.32 | Lone_Wanderer | How would you get married without dating first? |
| 23:32.44 | findlay | levi: none of my brothers had girlfriends before they got married |
| 23:32.48 | Lone_Wanderer | Hold a contest and the winner gets to marry you? |
| 23:32.53 | findlay | GF != dating |
| 23:33.05 | findlay | GF == excuse for making out |
| 23:33.10 | tene | Hmm. |
| 23:33.16 | Lone_Wanderer | So they went straight from casually dating to proposal? |
| 23:33.28 | levi | I see we have some terminology confusion going on here. |
| 23:33.36 | Lone_Wanderer | I think we have different definitions of girlfriend here. |
| 23:34.28 | Lone_Wanderer | Trying to start a relationship flamefest in a primarily male audience? |
| 23:34.43 | findlay | whatever will burn |
| 23:37.16 | Lone_Wanderer | Also, I don't really care enough about your opinions on dating to argue about it. |
| 23:37.59 | findlay | levi, Lone_Wanderer: I'm just over disgusted over the cavalier attitude I've seen so many kids take here in the Orem/Provo area to dating, relationships |
| 23:38.14 | Lone_Wanderer | Explain? |
| 23:38.36 | findlay | people I know who think having a girlfriend or being engaged is license for intimate activity |
| 23:38.54 | Lone_Wanderer | It isn't? |
| 23:39.08 | findlay | Lone_Wanderer: not to the extent I've seen |
| 23:39.15 | findlay | and certainly not for me |
| 23:39.25 | Lone_Wanderer | Or do you mean in public where any sensible person would know not to disgust the people around them with their behavior? |
| 23:39.45 | findlay | if that's what your relationship is based on what do you do when your GF or wife becomes ugly, find a new one? |
| 23:40.24 | findlay | Lone_Wanderer: that too |
| 23:40.47 | findlay | of course the former implies the latter (-: |
| 23:40.58 | elg | levi: well, yes, but I'm also talking about stuff that isn't (yet) popular |
| 23:41.14 | Lone_Wanderer | If you mean in private, what business of yours is it what they do in private? |
| 23:41.25 | tene | For that matter, why bother playing or enjoying sports if your body will just eventually decay and you'll be unable to continue playing them? |
| 23:41.34 | findlay | Lone_Wanderer: I don't know what these people do in private |
| 23:41.44 | Lone_Wanderer | Then I don't know what you're talking about I'm afraid. |
| 23:41.46 | tene | Why read or look at art if your eyes will eventually not work well enough to do it anymore? |
| 23:42.00 | tene | What will you do, just get new eyes? |
| 23:42.16 | Lone_Wanderer | It sounds like you're upset that people kiss and/or sleep with their boyfriends/girlfriend and husbands/wives. |
| 23:42.56 | findlay | Lone_Wanderer: I'm talking about behavior I feel inappropriate whether it occurs in public or private. I've just seen too much of it (in public) to really disillusion me to the care people practice regarding the virtue of chastity |
| 23:43.33 | findlay | Lone_Wanderer: part of what you say is my argument |
| 23:43.46 | Lone_Wanderer | What behavior specifically? |
| 23:43.48 | tene | Personally, I think that if you haven't completely given up your body and plugged cat5 straight into your brain, you have no business being on IRC. |
| 23:43.49 | Lone_Wanderer | Murder? |
| 23:44.01 | findlay | I'd rather not talk about it |
| 23:44.07 | Lone_Wanderer | Apparently. |
| 23:44.20 | Lone_Wanderer | As all you've really said is "I'm really upset about some things that people do sometimes!" |
| 23:44.51 | elg | levi: i'm talking about things that seem to have Quality underneath but are so ugly you can't bring yourself to even try them out |
| 23:44.56 | findlay | Lone_Wanderer: if you're looking for something racy, pr0n is just a google query away |
| 23:44.58 | elg | bbl |
| 23:45.26 | Lone_Wanderer | findlay: I just want you to define what you're upset about. As it is all you've said is that some people do things that upset you. |
| 23:45.44 | levi | elg: I'm not sure which things you're talking about. Examples? |
| 23:46.03 | Lone_Wanderer | If you consider the words "sleeping with each other" to be racy, well... there are several Amish settlements around the country that you could go join. |
| 23:46.52 | findlay | Lone_Wanderer: just because it's common doesn't mean I don't want to talk or think about it, much less condone it |
| 23:46.57 | tene | I've always been rather annoyed by the phrase "sleeping with" |
| 23:47.12 | Lone_Wanderer | tene: Me too. |
| 23:47.36 | Lone_Wanderer | findlay: You can talk about something without condoning it. Try this: "We are at war with Iraq." |
| 23:47.48 | findlay | We are at war with Iraq |
| 23:47.58 | findlay | . |
| 23:48.14 | Lone_Wanderer | OMG YOU CONDONE THE WAR WITH IRAQ? |
| 23:48.19 | Lone_Wanderer | See? That's just silly. |
| 23:48.21 | tene | In fact, by stating what you object to, you'd be explicitly objecting to it, which, to me, is close to the opposite of condoning it. |
| 23:48.39 | findlay | whatever |
| 23:48.59 | Lone_Wanderer | Honestly, I just want to know what it is that you're opposed to. If you're opposed to people sleeping with someone who isn't their wife, well, that's a fairly common position. |
| 23:49.14 | findlay | Lone_Wanderer: I'm opposed to that |
| 23:49.32 | Lone_Wanderer | Which, in this channel, barely bears mentioning. |
| 23:49.46 | Lone_Wanderer | Which makes me think that it's something else. |
| 23:50.18 | findlay | Lone_Wanderer: you just want me to more lucidly articulate my opinion so you can debate about it. Admit it (-: |
| 23:50.34 | findlay | fine |
| 23:50.43 | findlay | well, I'm opposed to ... |
| 23:50.51 | findlay | Shakespeare |
| 23:50.54 | findlay | yes, that's it |
| 23:50.58 | findlay | Shakespeare |
| 23:51.01 | Lone_Wanderer | No, what I'm trying to get you to do is *state* your position. |
| 23:51.03 | levi | Shakespeare was a pretty lewd fellow at times. |
| 23:51.10 | findlay | indeed |
| 23:51.52 | findlay | Lone_Wanderer: I do not condone a casual attitude to physical intimacy |
| 23:52.24 | Lone_Wanderer | And when you state it, I'll probably ask you why you have it. Which could be construed as debating it, but is different in that a debate (using my own definition here) is meant to convince the other person. |
| 23:54.01 | Lone_Wanderer | Also you said something about someone else's wife, which was confusing. |
| 23:54.42 | Lone_Wanderer | The only think I can figure you meant is that if you don't marry her, she'll marry someone else, and then you will have spent time and energy on someone that doesn't end up as your wife, but someone else's. |
| 23:54.51 | findlay | Lone_Wanderer: it was an oblique allusion to a proverbial saying: "spending money on a girl is equivalent to spending money on somebody else's (future) wife" |
| 23:55.00 | findlay | it was meant to be semi-jocular |
| 23:55.25 | Lone_Wanderer | Well, okay, but how are you going to ever get married if you don't ever date someone seriously? |
| 23:55.49 | findlay | it probably wouldn't happen |
| 23:55.57 | Lone_Wanderer | But you said your brothers all did it. |
| 23:56.03 | findlay | I'm not opposed to serious dating |
| 23:56.12 | Lone_Wanderer | Just to "having a Girlfriend"? |
| 23:56.23 | findlay | I am opposed to having a casual attitude to physical intimacy |
| 23:56.39 | Lone_Wanderer | And you equate a casual attitude to physical intimacy with "having a Girlfriend"? |
| 23:56.54 | findlay | which from the experiences I've had many around me seem to equate girlfriend to casual intimacy |
| 23:57.04 | findlay | Lone_Wanderer: yes |
| 23:57.24 | findlay | I see no purpose to continuing a serious relationship with a girl if it will never go anywhere |
| 23:57.38 | findlay | I'd be just wasting my time |
| 23:57.57 | Lone_Wanderer | So in your experience, people will meet, declare themselves boyfriend & girlfriend for the sole purpose of making it "okay" to be inappropriately intimate, and then break up shortly afterward |
| 23:58.08 | Lone_Wanderer | all of which is immoral to you? |
| 23:58.09 | tene | Yes, because the only meaningful or positive interaction you can have with someone is marriage, right? |
| 23:58.15 | findlay | something like that general formula, yes |
| 23:58.49 | findlay | now you're both presenting silly arguments |
| 23:58.50 | Lone_Wanderer | Okay, I think I understand now. |
| 23:59.02 | Lone_Wanderer | That's not how I would define "girlfriend" though. |
| 23:59.21 | tene | findlay: I've been presenting silly arguments from the start, you just haven't acknowledged them until now. |
| 23:59.36 | findlay | I'm glad there's a better definition out there. As you can see I'm overly cynical about it at the moment |