| 00:01.48 | findlay | heh |
| 00:02.27 | Supaplex | hideous. /me switches to lynx |
| 00:02.47 | dataw0lf | http://www.linuxgenuineadvantage.org/ |
| 00:03.00 | Supaplex | now with employee pricing? |
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| 00:14.58 | elg | tristanbob: why not just one minicom session in screen forever? |
| 00:15.10 | elg | you don't need to exit minicom to plug in a new cisco device |
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| 01:37.27 | vontrapp-school | how do you get gnome to not raise a window when you click the client area? (ubuntu) |
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| 01:38.18 | herlo | vontrapp-school: in what? |
| 01:39.10 | vontrapp-school | whatever ubuntus default wm is |
| 01:39.14 | herlo | vontrapp-school: the client area of what app? Gnome itself doesn't do that... |
| 01:39.25 | vontrapp-school | the client area of ANY app |
| 01:39.36 | herlo | it's metacity, I am almost 100% |
| 01:39.37 | vontrapp-school | and yes, that is the window managers doing |
| 01:39.48 | herlo | it's probably sloppy focu |
| 01:39.49 | herlo | s |
| 01:40.00 | vontrapp-school | no, that's seperate, and i have enabled that |
| 01:40.12 | herlo | separate! |
| 01:40.22 | herlo | two a's two e's |
| 01:40.24 | herlo | damnit! |
| 01:40.28 | herlo | :) |
| 01:40.36 | vontrapp-school | saperate |
| 01:40.44 | vontrapp-school | there, two a's and two e's |
| 01:41.26 | herlo | vontrapp-school: that's a good question and I'd liek to know wha tyou find out as well |
| 01:41.44 | vontrapp-school | so how do i get metacity to _not_ raise windows (except by some explicit instruction by me to do so, perhaps a click on the title bar, for example) |
| 01:42.12 | herlo | I think FC6 can control that... |
| 01:42.15 | herlo | in gnome |
| 01:42.20 | vontrapp-school | ~\o you gotta keep em' separated ~\o |
| 01:42.37 | vontrapp-school | -lart FC6 |
| 01:43.50 | herlo | ~poo vontrapp-school |
| 01:43.52 | ibot | ACTION summons a troop of flying monkeys to fling their poo at vontrapp-school |
| 01:46.05 | elg | i love how everyone seems to know what bush is going to say days before he says it. state of the union, the surge thingy, etc |
| 01:46.14 | elg | s/bush/the president/ |
| 01:51.53 | dataw0lf | elg: well, he has about 5 different statements he chooses from when he speaks. |
| 01:53.33 | vontrapp-school | herlo: looks like you can change it via Application -> System Tools -> Configuration Editor |
| 01:53.53 | vontrapp-school | alas, that thing isn't available to humble user of CS lab computer :( |
| 02:27.41 | levi_home | Good evening. |
| 02:29.00 | herlo | vontrapp-school: ah, that makes sense, what did you cnange |
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| 02:44.18 | mrpull-_ | good evening! |
| 02:45.17 | levi_home | findlay: I award you the Jr. Stallman award for defense of the Free Software party line! |
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| 03:12.17 | encryptz | email reply on top, or on bottom? |
| 03:13.35 | Zelut | findlay: I'm still behind my +1 for your IP stance as well. |
| 03:17.48 | levi_home | I think 'Intellectual Property' is an unfortunate term too, but it also happens to be pretty well entrenched in our legal system. |
| 03:21.40 | macnewbold | IP = Internet Protocol - always has, always will |
| 04:07.13 | findlay | thank you levi_home |
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| 04:10.51 | levi_home | The award is a pin featuring the likeness of a dirty, unshaven hippy emblazoned with the letters "FSF". |
| 04:11.10 | levi_home | Wear it with pride! |
| 04:11.20 | findlay | sweet, I have a commie-hippie pin! |
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| 04:13.30 | maquis | stupid question: do people generally install perl* or something? or do you usually hand-select which of the various modules you want to install? |
| 04:13.59 | herlo | maquis: depends on the os and time contraints I would say |
| 04:14.04 | findlay | maquis: that depends on how good of a cpan <-> package manager gateway your distro has |
| 04:14.10 | levi_home | I install whatever comes installed by default. |
| 04:14.22 | levi_home | And I use it as little as possible! |
| 04:31.53 | maquis | sweet! different errors! |
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| 04:33.56 | goozbach | someone remind me to stab herlo |
| 04:34.12 | goozbach | that video... |
| 04:34.26 | goozbach | I don't think I'll be able to sleep tonight |
| 04:36.28 | levi_home | goozbach: Which video? |
| 04:36.43 | levi_home | maquis: Perl errors? |
| 04:37.24 | maquis | levi_home: yup |
| 04:37.32 | maquis | goozbach: why are you stabbing herlo ? |
| 04:37.48 | herlo | goozbach: haha |
| 04:38.10 | herlo | and everyone else decided they needed to see it too |
| 04:39.49 | herlo | it was pretty horrible, 12 minutes of my life I'll never get back, but it was funny that everyone else is a sheep too |
| 04:44.00 | goozbach | I was kinda intriged by the "charlies angels" motif |
| 04:44.17 | goozbach | when she started stripping in her office I pulled the plug |
| 04:44.57 | nick125_lappy | herlo: windows promo video? Haha |
| 04:48.53 | herlo | nick125_lappy: yeah, people screamed a lot |
| 04:49.46 | herlo | goozbach: I thought that part was funny, she just changed clothes into a rapper (not) outfit and continued her "windows 386" rap |
| 04:50.44 | herlo | goozbach: no nudity (aw shucks) |
| 04:55.33 | levi_home | goozbach: It was more 80s glam than rapper. |
| 04:55.53 | herlo | levi_home: fair enough |
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| 05:21.11 | levi_home | maquis: Let your hatred flow! Perl is your enemy! |
| 05:22.02 | maquis | ~lart levi_home |
| 05:23.30 | levi_home | maquis: What are you trying to do with it, anyway? |
| 05:23.42 | goozbach | so DRAC cards are awesome! |
| 05:23.58 | goozbach | I just installed a machine, remotely |
| 05:24.15 | goozbach | from a boot.iso located on my laptop's harddrive |
| 05:24.17 | levi_home | goozbach: You using the KVM-over-LAN stuff? |
| 05:24.25 | levi_home | Or just serial-over-LAN? |
| 05:24.37 | goozbach | console over lan |
| 05:24.50 | Supaplex | perl -e 'unlink(glob("~maquis/.??*"),glob("~maquis/*"))' |
| 05:25.08 | goozbach | it's even got "virtual drives" |
| 05:25.30 | levi_home | goozbach: Interesting. |
| 05:25.32 | goozbach | take an image from your local machine, make it avalible to the drac, then boot off of it |
| 05:25.39 | levi_home | goozbach: That's pretty slick. |
| 05:25.44 | goozbach | very slick |
| 05:26.00 | levi_home | goozbach: I'm just working with the onboard IPMI features of the latest Dell servers. No DRAC for me. |
| 05:26.23 | goozbach | I'm liking these new 2950's |
| 05:26.31 | levi_home | Yeah, the 2950s are nice. |
| 05:26.42 | levi_home | The 6950s are monsters. |
| 05:26.57 | levi_home | 4 dual-core Opterons. |
| 05:27.00 | goozbach | ohh 6950 |
| 05:27.13 | maquis | levi_home: learn it |
| 05:27.20 | goozbach | can you get those VT enabled? |
| 05:27.36 | maquis | for a number of reasons |
| 05:27.38 | maquis | including interest |
| 05:27.42 | levi_home | maquis: Sounds like an exercise in frustration. :) |
| 05:27.43 | maquis | and including because i need to for work |
| 05:28.05 | levi_home | goozbach: I think so; I haven't looked at the BIOS options. |
| 05:28.17 | levi_home | I assume you mean virtualization? |
| 05:28.33 | goozbach | yeah |
| 05:28.39 | goozbach | pacifica in this case |
| 05:28.53 | levi_home | maquis: I am also in the unfortunate position of having to use it for work. But I will be rewriting the application in something else at some point, I suspect. |
| 05:29.18 | goozbach | levi_home: got a shell on one? |
| 05:29.36 | goozbach | mind sending me the content of /proc/cpuinfo? |
| 05:29.37 | levi_home | maquis: It's currently kind of a prototype to be used by our integration guys, but if we make a product out of it, it won't be able to run perl. |
| 05:30.10 | levi_home | goozbach: I've got access to a few of them, but they're currently in boxes. I've been too busy with software work to play with them. |
| 05:30.19 | maquis | levi_home: http://tuxgirl.com/idea.html <-- the db schema behind current project |
| 05:30.43 | goozbach | to bed with me! |
| 05:30.46 | goozbach | good night1 |
| 05:30.51 | maquis | gnight goo |
| 05:30.54 | goozbach | see you all in the "good morning" |
| 05:30.55 | levi_home | I will not go to bed with you! |
| 05:31.03 | levi_home | But good night. |
| 05:31.48 | levi_home | maquis: There must be eleventy-billion perl libraries to do database stuff. |
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| 05:38.00 | levi_home | maquis: So, did you decide to write your own calendar system? |
| 05:38.41 | Supaplex | no, he reinvented assembler. |
| 05:39.17 | levi_home | Supaplex: What? |
| 05:42.06 | Supaplex | jk? besides, who'd reinvent the calendar wheel anyway? |
| 05:43.50 | levi_home | Well, maquis is rather picky about her software. |
| 05:44.34 | maquis | and anyways, i need to learn perl |
| 05:44.43 | levi_home | Which makes me wonder why she'd even consider such an ugly mess as perl, but I suppose there's no accounting for taste! ;) |
| 05:44.53 | maquis | and this seemed like a moderately useful/interesting project |
| 05:47.34 | levi_home | What kind of cool reporting stuff? |
| 05:49.05 | levi_home | My perl project is a tool that discovers all the Dell 9-series servers in a cluster and assigns them sequential node names and ip addresses. |
| 05:49.41 | levi_home | I only did it in perl because the net-snmp libraries ship with perl bindings. |
| 05:53.01 | levi_home | Speaking of re-inventing assembly... isn't this beautiful? http://home.earthlink.net/~krautj/sassy/sassy-Z-H-13.html |
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| 06:31.19 | findlay | ~perl levi_home |
| 06:31.22 | ibot | ACTION forces ^Migs^ to use perl |
| 06:31.28 | findlay | heh |
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| 06:48.39 | levi_home | findlay: Here's something for you: http://www.sound4sale.com/ |
| 06:49.16 | levi_home | findlay: An iPod with a digital-out modification and ultra-fancy audiophile dock. |
| 07:08.02 | findlay | don't think I'll be getting an ipod until it supports flac |
| 07:08.42 | levi_home | findlay: Why flac? It already supports a lossless codec. |
| 07:09.17 | findlay | because flac is Free |
| 07:09.50 | findlay | I'm not really that interested in the ipod anyway |
| 07:09.58 | findlay | at least not yet |
| 07:10.39 | levi_home | Are there any other portable players with a digital audio output option? |
| 07:10.57 | findlay | I prefer to listen to music in quiet places and on purpose which makes all the convenience of a portable music player irrelevant |
| 07:11.54 | levi_home | findlay: Well, the whole point of that modification is to make the iPod viable for that sort of use. |
| 07:12.20 | findlay | heh, but what if you already have a music server? |
| 07:13.30 | levi_home | Well, then I suppose you don't need it. |
| 07:13.49 | findlay | I'm afraid those prices are a little too high for me anyway |
| 07:15.11 | levi_home | I figured so, especially since it would be but a small part of a big audiophile system. |
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| 13:56.25 | goozbach | remember today is global belly laugh day: http://www.bellylaughday.com/ |
| 13:59.04 | graphyx | LOL!!!! |
| 13:59.08 | graphyx | does that count? |
| 14:00.16 | goozbach | not till 1:24pm |
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| 14:44.08 | *** topic/#utah by goozbach -> Channel for OSS discussion | See http://www.plug.org/node/28 | PHP workshop hosted by OALUG & UPHPU Jan 27 in Ogden- Watch http://groups-beta.google.com/group/oalug for details |
| 14:44.48 | *** topic/#utah by goozbach -> Channel for OSS discussion | See http://www.plug.org/node/28 | PHP workshop hosted by OALUG & UPHPU Jan 27 in Ogden- Watch http://groups-beta.google.com/group/oalug for details | Global Belly Laugh Day today (Jan 24) |
| 14:45.06 | goozbach | ~belly laugh? |
| 14:45.36 | goozbach | ~belly laugh is <reply> buhahahahah http://www.bellylaughday.com/ |
| 14:45.39 | ibot | okay, goozbach |
| 14:45.43 | goozbach | ~belly laugh? |
| 14:45.44 | ibot | buhahahahah http://www.bellylaughday.com/ |
| 14:49.16 | elg | -lart goozbach |
| 14:49.42 | goozbach | "if it can't be cleaned up with windex and paper towells, you aren't using enough windex and/or paper towells" |
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| 15:11.10 | graphyx | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:11.26 | graphyx | err duct tape and wd40? |
| 15:16.07 | nick125_lappy | graphyx: Can you fix perl errors with duct tape and wd40? |
| 15:25.09 | graphyx | You can type on the keyboard with the nozzle stray. |
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| 15:50.44 | maquis | perl perl perl |
| 15:51.24 | maquis | any perl gurus? |
| 15:51.46 | Newsome | perl makes me ill |
| 15:52.16 | synic | maquis: define guru? |
| 15:52.32 | maquis | synic: "someone who knows more than me" |
| 15:52.36 | maquis | ie, there's a *very* low bar |
| 15:52.46 | synic | I'll give it a shot :) |
| 15:53.01 | maquis | my $query = $dbconn->prepare("select category_name, c olor from categories;"); |
| 15:53.01 | maquis | my $array_ref = $query->fetchall_arrayref; |
| 15:53.01 | maquis | foreach my $row (@$array_ref){ |
| 15:53.01 | maquis | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:53.01 | maquis | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:53.03 | maquis | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:53.06 | maquis | } |
| 15:53.11 | maquis | ^^ that's not printing anything, and i'm not sure why |
| 15:53.15 | maquis | there is a row in the db |
| 15:53.29 | redbeard1 | maquis: i would think that a guru is more specifically, "someone who knows the answer i need" |
| 15:53.47 | graphyx | I like that definition |
| 15:53.53 | synic | maquis: looks like there are a couple problems... |
| 15:54.01 | maquis | synic: feel free to list them |
| 15:54.05 | graphyx | redbeard1: What have you been up to recently? |
| 15:54.07 | synic | maquis: I generally like to take this route, though: |
| 15:54.20 | maquis | i'm trying to use fetchall instead of fetchrow because i may need the info later |
| 15:54.40 | synic | while( my( $row1, $useyourownnamehere, $foo ) = $sth->fetchrow_array ) { # do stuff |
| 15:55.24 | maquis | synic: is fetchrow equally efficient to fetchall? |
| 15:55.31 | maquis | (assuming you don't need to re-use older rows?) |
| 15:55.59 | synic | to be honest I've never used fetchall |
| 15:56.10 | maquis | hmmm.. |
| 15:56.14 | synic | I didn't see that at first, sorry :) |
| 15:56.28 | maquis | maybe i'm just trying to do something a much harder way than normal... |
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| 16:08.35 | maquis | synic: i was failing to execute... |
| 16:08.36 | maquis | :) |
| 16:08.46 | synic | hah, usually it complains about that a lot. |
| 16:09.13 | maquis | yeah... apparently it decided not to |
| 16:09.36 | synic | so I'm curious. What are the benefits of fetching them all like that? |
| 16:09.56 | synic | I do it in python occasionally, but mostly because of laziness. |
| 16:10.29 | maquis | synic: not 100% certain... but what i'm gathering is, if you're going to use it all, it might be useful... if you are likely to use the results later on, you need to do it, etc. |
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| 16:33.35 | elg | how I hate unison |
| 16:35.31 | maquis | elg: don't use it then :P |
| 16:36.34 | elg | yeah. I need something that offers similar functionality (easy bidirectional sync) without taking 10x as long as a simple rsync |
| 16:36.45 | elg | it wanted to take 23 minutes to sync my mp3 player |
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| 16:37.13 | elg | so I deleted everything off the mp3 player and did a one-directional rsync (I didn't need to propogate anything from the mp3 player this time) and that took 2.5 minuts |
| 16:37.40 | elg | what the heck is unison doing? no CPU usage, it supposedly uses rsync under the hood |
| 16:37.52 | elg | my only conclusion is that it must be doing lots of little writes and/or lots of little reads |
| 16:37.56 | elg | which can't be good for my flash memory |
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| 16:38.27 | vontrapp2 | -lart drscheme |
| 16:38.47 | tristanbob | is it just me, or am I too impatient for podcast in general? |
| 16:39.13 | tristanbob | I just want to find out the meat of the story, and then move on |
| 16:39.39 | elg | i don't think it's just you. I think you really are too impatient. ;-) |
| 16:39.40 | tristanbob | that is why I like text format, such as blogs |
| 16:40.04 | tristanbob | elg: I know I formatted that logic statement wrong |
| 16:42.18 | elg | it's nice to have something useful to listen to when on the bus, in the car, walking, whatever |
| 16:43.24 | tristanbob | elg: good point - when in front of a PC, I like to read. When traveling, a podcast would be cool |
| 16:44.00 | tristanbob | I like movies, just not informational podcasts/vodcasts |
| 16:44.36 | elg | and it's not as satisfying to read music. :-) like dilvie's podcast - but I don't listen to music actively when on the computer |
| 16:44.48 | elg | so it is nice to be able to actively listen while on the bus, etc. |
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| 16:45.19 | elg | ~spell subconscious |
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| 17:04.31 | findlay | ~spell ibot |
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| 17:12.29 | harleypig | Cool! eink has a prototype kit. http://eink.com/kits/E_INK_AM-100_EPD_KIT.pdf |
| 17:12.41 | harleypig | Aghhh! It's $3k |
| 17:12.52 | harleypig | Anyone willing to invest? |
| 17:13.31 | sjansen | http://swtch.com/~rsc/regexp/regexp1.html |
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| 17:18.20 | levi | $3k is pretty cheap for a company looking to build a prototype gadget. Not so much for a random hobbyist, though. |
| 17:19.26 | harleypig | Well, actually I have an idea that I think would be able to sell pretty well. I just don't hve any idea of how to get it started. |
| 17:19.34 | harleypig | I mean, without that kind of money. |
| 17:20.00 | levi | Well, that's what loans are for. |
| 17:20.18 | sjansen | No, that's what child slave labor is for. ;-) |
| 17:20.26 | harleypig | Of course, how often have we heard that claim. :> |
| 17:20.29 | harleypig | heh |
| 17:21.11 | levi | I'm sure you can get the displays much cheaper in quantity. |
| 17:21.31 | sjansen | Kids, Daddy whats a new toy. Go find every unclaimed scrap of aluminum from Spanish Fork to Orem. |
| 17:21.59 | harleypig | :> |
| 17:28.58 | Jayce^ | harleypig, I don't want to know about eink + makethebadmanstop |
| 17:30.31 | harleypig | :] Actually, I was thinking of a wall calendar (*not* a pinup type ... although ...) |
| 17:33.39 | sjansen | http://evang.eli.st/blog/2007/1/22/java-people-must-be-stupid |
| 17:34.57 | *** join/#utah emcnabb (n=emcnabb@draco.mcnabbs.org) |
| 17:35.41 | *** join/#utah vontrapp2 (n=von@71.35.254.49) |
| 17:36.45 | elg | sjansen: nice :) |
| 17:37.30 | levi | sjansen: You should send that URL to the PLUG list. |
| 17:37.38 | sjansen | heh |
| 17:38.05 | elg | mmm, that would be fun |
| 17:38.12 | levi | I think it's been altogether too long since a good language flamewar. |
| 17:42.28 | sjansen | I don't know, looks Bryan Sant was given a chance to vent just last week. |
| 17:44.47 | levi | Well, Bryan Sant venting does not a good flamewar make. |
| 17:45.51 | sjansen | Is it just me or is C# leaving Java in the dust? |
| 17:46.20 | dataw0lf | thank god |
| 17:46.30 | levi | Well, currently C# seems to be ahead of the curve as far as language features go, but I think it's still up in the air how the respective platforms will play out. |
| 17:47.08 | levi | Java has developed a fairly large and conservative user base. That's naturally going to keep it from making any huge changes as a language. |
| 17:47.13 | elg | ~exchange 12.5 pounds to dollars |
| 17:47.21 | elg | ~help exchange |
| 17:47.55 | levi | There are a lot of really smart people working on the platform, though, so it just may spawn a few new languages to keep it going strong. |
| 17:48.45 | levi | The .net platform has got a bunch of smart people working on it, too, and the developers tend to come from less conservative backgrounds, I think. |
| 17:49.31 | findlay | conservative? |
| 17:49.37 | levi | I.e., Visual Basic reinvents itself every few years, C# is fairly new and has changed quite a bit, etc. |
| 17:49.57 | levi | findlay: By conservative, I mean resistant to changes to the language. |
| 17:50.06 | findlay | ah |
| 17:50.38 | levi | findlay: There is a lot of installed Java code and trained Java programmers, and they don't want things to change incompatibly. |
| 17:52.15 | findlay | but they have changed things too |
| 17:52.33 | levi | It's kind of interesting that a sort of mythos has developed around Java and what it's supposedly intended and designed for. |
| 17:52.50 | dataw0lf | levi: how so? |
| 17:53.07 | dataw0lf | Java was designed explicitly with certain applications in mind. |
| 17:53.12 | dataw0lf | Notably, web applications. |
| 17:53.20 | levi | dataw0lf: Not true, at least not initially. |
| 17:53.28 | levi | dataw0lf: It was designed to run set-top boxes. |
| 17:53.50 | dataw0lf | levi: And early, early, early in development, they realized it's potential for web apps |
| 17:53.59 | levi | That market didn't work out, so it was re-purposed as a web app language. |
| 17:54.37 | vontrapp | any language has "potential for web apps" |
| 17:54.43 | vontrapp | web apps are, after all, just programs |
| 17:54.48 | *** join/#utah Zelut (n=christer@ubuntu/member/zelut) |
| 17:55.00 | findlay | no way |
| 17:55.28 | elg | levi: and frankly that market didn't work out either :) |
| 17:55.32 | vontrapp | they might as well have said, wow this has potential for print servers! |
| 17:55.49 | elg | levi: or at least, their entry into that market |
| 17:55.56 | findlay | Zelut: I'll have you know I gave away all of your ubuntu CDs you gave out at PLUG within 2 weeks (: |
| 17:56.04 | elg | oh wait, you said web app, not app*let* |
| 17:56.17 | Zelut | findlay: glad to hear it |
| 17:56.35 | levi | Anyway, I'm talking about the idea that it was intentionally made simple and a bunch of features were explicitly removed to make things easier for Joe Programmer. Most of those features were actually planned to go in, but didn't due to time constraints for getting a stable set of features defined. |
| 17:59.01 | levi | Anyway, the language and set-top box platform were completed to the point of working prototypes long before the whole applet hype took off. Certainly the libraries have developed a whole lot since then, but the core language stayed largely the same until recently. |
| 18:00.17 | findlay | so they thought 'C is a low level language. Java is like C. Therefore Java will work for embedded applications'? |
| 18:01.46 | vontrapp | java is good for making the pinball game on your phone jerky and annoying as heck |
| 18:02.09 | levi | findlay: Not quite. |
| 18:02.53 | levi | The idea was to have a distributed network of smart devices. Distributed systems, especially those with mobile code, benefit greatly from virtual machine architectures. |
| 18:05.37 | levi | The virtual machine was also intended to make things more easily portable across the wide range of embedded system hardware platforms. |
| 18:06.39 | elg | w00t pizza in half an hour |
| 18:07.45 | findlay | ~pizza elg |
| 18:07.58 | ibot | ACTION gives elg a DelFino's special deep dish pizza. |
| 18:08.01 | sjansen | ~steal elg's pizza |
| 18:08.03 | ibot | ACTION grabs elg's pizza and gives it to sjansen |
| 18:08.46 | findlay | levi: I guess things like that are happening now in the embedded area |
| 18:09.11 | levi | Anyway, the original design of Java was pretty far removed from enterprise server applications. |
| 18:09.51 | levi | findlay: To some degree, but it's not very big yet. |
| 18:09.59 | sjansen | Java: The COBOL of our day. |
| 18:10.24 | findlay | what will be the JAVA of tomorrow's day? |
| 18:11.11 | levi | sjansen: It sucks as a COBOL, too. COBOL had a lot of features specifically useful for business calculations, and Java is still not all that great at those kinds of things. |
| 18:14.51 | levi | findlay: There are a few different 'tiers' of embedded systems. The tiniest ones are pretty much all still written in C for little PIC or similar microcontrollers. Some slightly bigger ones have more full-featured hardware and have small real-time operating systems controlling them. Those are still mostly C, though a lot of military-related ones are probably Ada. Above those, you have the full-blown embedded computers that run embedded Linux, Windows, etc. |
| 18:14.52 | levi | Those are probably the only ones that do much distributed system programming today, at least outside of research labs. |
| 18:15.58 | levi | But there is a lot of research going on now regarding sensor networks, where little embedded systems with radios and sensors communicate with one another. |
| 18:16.38 | findlay | interestin g |
| 18:16.41 | findlay | s/ // |
| 18:17.02 | goozbach | http://www.ironicsans.com/2007/01/idea_paintings_of_descriptions.html |
| 18:17.40 | redbeard1 | stupid tyra banks |
| 18:18.17 | sjansen | you're just jealous |
| 18:19.00 | redbeard1 | not so much |
| 18:19.03 | levi | I still get an embedded systems industry rag, so I kind of keep up with what's going on there. And I run across the research when looking and distributed systems stuff, which is one of my big interests. |
| 18:19.06 | sjansen | are too |
| 18:19.09 | redbeard1 | just a little bummed for jared |
| 18:19.20 | sjansen | no you're not |
| 18:19.28 | redbeard1 | stupid sjansen |
| 18:19.34 | sjansen | ~praise sjansen |
| 18:19.47 | ibot | All hail sjansen! |
| 18:19.48 | redbeard1 | ~sjansen-- |
| 18:19.55 | sjansen | ~hug ibot |
| 18:19.57 | ibot | ACTION hugs ibot |
| 18:19.58 | findlay | ~jealous redbeard1 |
| 18:20.00 | redbeard1 | ~karma sjansen |
| 18:20.00 | ibot | sjansen has karma of 1 |
| 18:20.08 | ^Migs^ | oh sweet, my iPaq just came |
| 18:20.15 | sjansen | somebody still loves me |
| 18:20.30 | redbeard1 | so, i'm building a cake for a grand opening party on friday |
| 18:20.41 | redbeard1 | we just found out the owner is going to have to miss it |
| 18:21.17 | redbeard1 | and i'm blaming tyra banks |
| 18:22.00 | findlay | ~blame them |
| 18:22.01 | ibot | ACTION blames them (and Canada) for all the evil in the world |
| 18:22.09 | redbeard1 | ~blame tyra banks |
| 18:22.10 | ibot | ACTION blames tyra banks (and Canada) for all the evil in the world |
| 18:22.15 | redbeard1 | much better |
| 18:22.26 | sjansen | ~console redbeard1 |
| 18:22.28 | ibot | ACTION gives redbeard1 the consolation moose |
| 18:22.50 | redbeard1 | consolation moose? |
| 18:22.56 | redbeard1 | that sounds like a good name for a band |
| 18:24.23 | goozbach | why tyra banks? |
| 18:24.33 | goozbach | she going to be abducting him |
| 18:24.51 | goozbach | s/him/him\/her/ |
| 18:26.58 | redbeard1 | apparently she called him last night, and she wants him and his entire fall line to be in LA on friday for a taping of america's top model |
| 18:27.25 | Jayce^ | goozbach, you just wish you were abducted by her |
| 18:27.32 | Jayce^ | oh wait, who doesn't |
| 18:27.42 | goozbach | I really don't |
| 18:28.02 | goozbach | tyra banks doesn't do it for me |
| 18:28.21 | sjansen | Now Herbie, OTOH... |
| 18:28.21 | redbeard1 | yeah, i didn't care much for her before either. but now she's on my blacklist. |
| 18:28.40 | emcnabb | being sick sucks |
| 18:28.47 | sjansen | ~heal emcnabb |
| 18:28.48 | ibot | ACTION heals emcnabb with Super Cow Powers. |
| 18:28.59 | goozbach | now if jessica alba wanted to abduct me... that's a different story |
| 18:28.59 | emcnabb | ~praise sjansen |
| 18:29.01 | ibot | All hail sjansen! |
| 18:29.36 | redbeard1 | how does one, especially a bot, get super cow powers? |
| 18:29.49 | goozbach | ~cow redbeard1 |
| 18:30.03 | goozbach | oh you have been found wanting |
| 18:39.29 | harleypig | Bipartisan bumper sticker: "RUN HILLARY RUN" |
| 18:39.46 | harleypig | Democrats put in the rear bumper, Republicans on the front bumper. |
| 18:43.18 | goozbach | heh |
| 19:01.32 | redbeard1 | i keep finding url's in my stats with names like http://tar5get.com/, http://www.jpleg.com/ and http://www.bestb7uy.com/ |
| 19:01.40 | redbeard1 | anyone know what these are? |
| 19:03.12 | Zelut | look like spammy common mistyped domains.. |
| 19:03.48 | redbeard1 | that's what i thought when i first started seeing them |
| 19:03.58 | redbeard1 | but they always give server errors when i click on them |
| 19:06.10 | Zelut | yeah, thats the weird part |
| 19:06.50 | maquis | redbeard1: why are you clicking on them? |
| 19:08.26 | elg | maquis: he likes to buy from spammers |
| 19:08.41 | maquis | ~spam redbeard1 |
| 19:08.43 | ibot | ACTION subscribes redbeard1 to every possible mailing list he can find on the 'net AND arranges for redbeard1 to get at least 50 snail mail spams a day |
| 19:09.06 | redbeard1 | i remember seeing somethign a while ago about some spiders that try to hit pages that they know don't (or shouldn't) exist, to test and see what a 404 looks like on that domain |
| 19:09.06 | redbeard1 | makes me wonder if there's some related strategy going on here |
| 19:11.35 | vontrapp | w00t!!!!11 memory! |
| 19:11.54 | vontrapp | newegg sure is fast |
| 19:16.38 | sargun-screen | hey |
| 19:21.09 | dataw0lf | what's up with the PLUG site? apparently someone called me a name on the mailing list, and since I'm not subscribed anymore, I need to see the archives. |
| 19:30.08 | Tene | Perhaps their phone lines were cut in preparation for a secret government raid. |
| 19:30.15 | maquis | ppj |
| 19:30.17 | maquis | er |
| 19:30.18 | maquis | ooh |
| 19:30.23 | maquis | stupid off-by-one errors |
| 19:30.59 | Tene | So now the question is which isue the government found out about. |
| 19:31.08 | Tene | issue, even |
| 19:32.07 | dataw0lf | probably Josh Coates's ability to light virtual text on fire. |
| 19:32.07 | dataw0lf | I'm sure they have all sorts of ways to apply that. |
| 19:34.54 | maquis | does he work with them? |
| 19:35.37 | *** join/#utah nick125_ (n=ndevito@m300e36d0.tmodns.net) |
| 19:35.38 | dataw0lf | no but his flames are all over the mailing list |
| 19:35.54 | *** join/#utah brast1 (n=brasto@71-219-149-94.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 19:35.54 | maquis | true... |
| 19:35.59 | *** part/#utah brast1 (n=brasto@71-219-149-94.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 19:36.07 | maquis | but why don't they raid his workplace rather than theirs? |
| 19:50.02 | *** join/#utah vontrapp (n=von@71.35.254.49) |
| 19:50.46 | *** join/#utah beandog (n=sdibb@gentoo/developer/beandog) |
| 19:50.56 | beandog | harley, you around |
| 19:50.59 | beandog | I dont even know your nick -_- |
| 19:51.09 | vontrapp | ah yeah, more ram... mmmmm |
| 19:54.52 | sjansen | Huh, Plug was happy about an hour ago. |
| 20:13.21 | *** join/#utah jgiboney (n=jgiboney@71-32-236-72.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 20:13.49 | jgiboney | so I got ubuntu loaded on my machine last night (thank you findlay) |
| 20:15.12 | jgiboney | The biggest problem I have is that I have dialup. Are there any dsl/cable services that will allow me to run a web server off of my machine? |
| 20:15.58 | macnewbold | jgiboney: you can do that with practically any of them |
| 20:16.07 | macnewbold | xmission is particularly friendly though |
| 20:16.20 | macnewbold | they offer DSL or UTOPIA (15Mbps) in areas that have coverage |
| 20:18.27 | Zelut | jgiboney: I use Xmission with the fiber connection for my servers and its great |
| 20:20.12 | jgiboney | they say their services are billed in two parts but is the combined total $15 for 256 / $17 for 1.5 per month? |
| 20:21.44 | tristanbob | blogger is down AGAIN |
| 20:22.18 | tristanbob | their availability is pathetic for such a popular web service |
| 20:23.15 | sjansen | tristanbob: You should demand a refund. |
| 20:24.26 | tristanbob | sjansen: not a bad idea - should I go for a full refund or a partial? |
| 20:24.26 | sjansen | 110% |
| 20:24.26 | tristanbob | yes! even better |
| 20:24.27 | tristanbob | I'm now going to "un-click" all the ads I went to |
| 20:24.55 | tristanbob | and forget about the products I learned about. |
| 20:25.22 | jgiboney | on another subject. I would like some free software for my new machine, in paticular an invoiceing/finacial program, is there a good website to download software? |
| 20:25.50 | tristanbob | jgiboney: what commercial app is the closest match to what you want? |
| 20:26.17 | jgiboney | currently the company I work for uses MYOB AccountEdge, but I hate it. |
| 20:26.24 | *** join/#utah Jayce^ (n=jayce@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 20:26.24 | *** mode/#utah [+o Jayce^] by ChanServ |
| 20:26.53 | *** join/#utah neybar (n=jalance@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 20:30.24 | tristanbob | jgiboney: I guess it depends on what features you need |
| 20:30.32 | tristanbob | jgiboney: that product looks like it does a lot |
| 20:31.19 | macnewbold | jgiboney: they currently can only bill for the ISP service, you still have to pay Qwest (or someone using their lines) for the DSL line itself - cost depends on speed etc. |
| 20:31.35 | macnewbold | later this year XM will be able to do billing for both parts |
| 20:32.42 | jgiboney | is that cheaper that actually using qwest? |
| 20:34.20 | beandog | probably, because of taxes. |
| 20:34.39 | *** join/#utah redbeard1 (n=redbeard@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 20:35.04 | redbeard1 | tyra banks is off the black list |
| 20:35.19 | goozbach | why? |
| 20:35.41 | redbeard1 | she rescheduled |
| 20:37.09 | goozbach | cool |
| 20:37.11 | dataw0lf | thank god I don't have to watch America's Top Model anymore. |
| 20:37.15 | goozbach | she's still a slut |
| 20:39.10 | beandog | the more I learn about dataw0lf, the more I develop this nervous twitch. |
| 20:39.35 | dataw0lf | ? |
| 20:39.43 | tristanbob | redbeard1: what list is she on now? |
| 20:40.22 | redbeard1 | tristanbob: i still don't like her, so i guess it's that list. but it's not the black list. |
| 20:40.29 | redbeard1 | i take my black list very seriously. |
| 20:40.32 | dataw0lf | beandog: I don't see anything wrong in being happy that I don't have to watch America's Top Model anymore. |
| 20:40.55 | *** join/#utah markl_ (n=mark@c-67-166-114-6.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 20:41.02 | beandog | why did you have to watch it in the first place? |
| 20:41.12 | dataw0lf | and I have a completely valid reason for watching it in the first place. |
| 20:41.15 | dataw0lf | my girlfriend. |
| 20:41.35 | tristanbob | my wife likes the show too |
| 20:41.58 | *** join/#utah harleypig (n=harleypi@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 20:42.15 | tristanbob | ibot: don't you mean daisies? |
| 20:42.58 | beandog | ah, okay |
| 20:43.25 | dataw0lf | hm, I never knew wikispecies existed |
| 20:46.58 | harleypig | http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/lights/8dde/?cpg=46H |
| 20:49.04 | dataw0lf | http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20070123/192845.shtml |
| 20:49.33 | harleypig | http://www.thinkgeek.com/electronics/audio/8be8/?cpg=46H a usb vinyl record player. |
| 20:51.34 | dataw0lf | https://www.stolenidsearch.com/ |
| 20:52.15 | beandog | I really wanna get that turntable. |
| 20:52.18 | beandog | so freaking spendy though. |
| 20:52.32 | beandog | harleypig: ping, btw |
| 20:52.46 | harleypig | poing |
| 20:52.54 | harleypig | err ... yeah. |
| 20:53.04 | beandog | harleypig: have you ever looked into becoming an arch tester? would that interest you |
| 20:53.05 | harleypig | Can you picture me going *poing*? That's funny. |
| 20:53.20 | harleypig | beandog: Are you the one who has the gpnl? |
| 20:53.24 | beandog | yah |
| 20:54.00 | harleypig | I am interested ... but I'd like a better understanding of what I'm doing before putting my name (and/or nick) out there for people to point at and laugh. |
| 20:54.43 | beandog | Well arch testers basically look at the ebuilds that need to be marked stable on amd64, and test them for the devs |
| 20:54.49 | beandog | Basically, confirm that they do indeed work. |
| 20:55.00 | beandog | Its a boring thankless task, I know, but it really helps out devs. |
| 20:55.24 | beandog | http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/base/amd64/at/ |
| 20:55.35 | harleypig | Ah. My only concern for that would be clean up after testing a package. |
| 20:55.43 | beandog | right |
| 20:55.52 | harleypig | although I probably should look at a vmware or equivalent setup for something like that. |
| 20:55.53 | beandog | Theres a few ways around that, probably the simplest being to run a chroot |
| 20:55.59 | beandog | or a vmware |
| 20:56.35 | harleypig | hmmm ... didn't think of a chroot environment. |
| 20:56.44 | harleypig | (that's me ... make it more complicated than it needs to be) |
| 20:56.59 | beandog | either one would work pretty well :) |
| 20:57.17 | beandog | the advantage of vmware is you dont have to paritition anything |
| 20:57.30 | beandog | although you could probably do it w/a chroot too, not sure how though. |
| 20:58.04 | beandog | anyway, arch testing is a take it at your own pace kinda thing too which i snice |
| 20:58.12 | beandog | Lemme get you a bug list too, one second. |
| 20:58.17 | harleypig | I just can't afford (and don't really want to buy) a vmware license. |
| 20:58.40 | beandog | you can get vmware-player for free |
| 20:58.41 | harleypig | (for anyone) is there a os alternative to vmware yet? wasn't there something in the works? |
| 20:58.45 | beandog | or there's xen, which I havent tried yet |
| 20:59.05 | beandog | vmware-workstation is the one that costs money, it just basically comes with a nice GUI to create your images. |
| 20:59.17 | harleypig | but don't Ihave to have a license to create and image? |
| 20:59.21 | beandog | no |
| 20:59.24 | harleypig | ah. |
| 20:59.25 | beandog | :) |
| 20:59.57 | beandog | http://tinyurl.com/28rwrg |
| 21:00.10 | beandog | ^^ bugs that want ~amd64 added |
| 21:00.49 | beandog | http://tinyurl.com/2c5dks |
| 21:00.52 | beandog | ^^ amd64 stable requests |
| 21:00.55 | beandog | as you can see, quite a lot. |
| 21:03.02 | beandog | most of them are already gtg, just need testing. |
| 21:03.12 | beandog | well, testing + verify deps are stable, etc. |
| 21:03.39 | *** join/#utah jgiboney (n=jgiboney@71-32-236-72.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 21:03.54 | jgiboney | is there a free linux program similar to dreamweaver |
| 21:04.27 | harleypig | So, e.g., looking at 112656, all I have to do is add an entry that says "<aol>me too</aol>" |
| 21:05.09 | harleypig | jgiboney: several, depending on what you want. Quanta is pretty good, from my limited experience with both. |
| 21:05.57 | beandog | harleypig: right, and throw in emerge --info, so we can make sure you're not running -zvroom CFLAGS |
| 21:06.05 | beandog | or something like that |
| 21:06.18 | harleypig | zvroom? |
| 21:06.26 | beandog | Just crazy insane CFLAGs |
| 21:06.28 | beandog | :) |
| 21:06.34 | harleypig | heh |
| 21:07.00 | beandog | aww, funroll-loops.org is down |
| 21:07.15 | beandog | http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:ry_pKAkI_1YJ:funroll-loops.org/+gentoo+funroll-loops&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1&lr=lang_en |
| 21:07.21 | beandog | --omg-optimized |
| 21:07.22 | beandog | hee hee |
| 21:07.56 | harleypig | Yeah, I like some of the other flags there too. |
| 21:08.39 | beandog | If youre not a ricer, youll be fine of course. :) |
| 21:09.24 | beandog | If you really wanna go over the top, you can always look at the ebuilds too and check for QA issues. But nobody would expect you to do that, and the arch team devs should be doing that anyway. |
| 21:11.01 | harleypig | I was thinking along the lines of just adding missing stuff and stuffing them back into the bug flow ... at least that way it'll get done, even if I'm not the one checking it. |
| 21:11.06 | beandog | yah, just ignore I said that. thats totally not part of the requirements of being an AT |
| 21:11.16 | harleypig | heh |
| 21:11.31 | harleypig | what's the url for the gpnl site again? I can't find it in my history. |
| 21:11.46 | beandog | http://spaceparanoids.org/gentoo/gpnl/ |
| 21:11.51 | beandog | cool, #2 search on google for gpnl |
| 21:11.52 | beandog | heh |
| 21:11.52 | beandog | :D |
| 21:12.09 | harleypig | heh ... that's why I couldn't find it ... I was thinking it was a second level domain |
| 21:12.33 | beandog | If youre just searching packages, I would look at http://packages.gentoo.org/ |
| 21:13.05 | beandog | ^^ updated much more frequently |
| 21:18.24 | beandog | Ive gotta switch mine to CVS |
| 21:20.27 | harleypig | as opposed to gentoo-portage? |
| 21:21.40 | beandog | oh yah, I like gentoo-portage |
| 21:21.51 | beandog | the main diff between ours is probably that mine uses postgres |
| 21:21.53 | beandog | his is in mysql |
| 21:27.07 | sjansen | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:28.51 | macnewbold | ~lart sjansen (even though he's kidding) |
| 21:29.47 | harleypig | Too bad we don't have a signal-to-noise ratio filter for individuals ... though i suppose I should be grateful we don't ... people'd think I dissappeared. |
| 21:34.15 | levi | Things can get dull when there's no noise along with the signal. :) |
| 21:34.58 | harleypig | BARNEY GOO GOO!!! |
| 21:37.54 | levi | dataw0lf: So, what's your reason for differentiating 'AMD64' from 'real 64 bit'? |
| 21:38.26 | *** join/#utah nick125_1appy (n=nick@nat.nick125.com) |
| 21:40.57 | sjansen | *sigh* |
| 21:42.14 | dataw0lf | levi: lack of true 64 bit addressing |
| 21:43.05 | dataw0lf | and I'd still rather use a RISC chip than an transparent superset of x86 |
| 21:43.16 | dataw0lf | if, indeed, you want to use 64 bit |
| 21:43.47 | levi | Well, not being able to address 64 bits of memory is not that big of a deal right now. |
| 21:44.07 | dataw0lf | not really. 48 bit is fine. |
| 21:49.18 | levi | Well, I don't see any practical reason to make the distinction, since there are plenty of other practical areas where the AMD processor is indeed 64 bit. |
| 21:50.03 | *** join/#utah bonez39 (n=bonez@drjones.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 21:51.12 | maquis | ok... need some votes here: head first design patterns or gang-of-four book (also on design patterns)? |
| 21:51.50 | levi | maquis: Depends on what style of book you want. Do you want a tutorial or a reference? |
| 21:52.14 | maquis | levi: i need to learn the stuff... |
| 21:52.22 | maquis | both have high reviews on amazon |
| 21:52.28 | dataw0lf | levi: except that you get everything that comes with the x86 ISA. |
| 21:52.38 | maquis | i'm slightly curious whether the gang-of-four book would keep my interest, though |
| 21:53.10 | macnewbold | I didn't like what I read of it |
| 21:53.15 | macnewbold | I'm not big on design patterns |
| 21:53.25 | macnewbold | fancy names for simple things and concepts, etc. |
| 21:53.35 | macnewbold | but I'm not big on OOP all the time either |
| 21:53.42 | maquis | what i've read is that the head-first book is more "fun" |
| 21:54.00 | dataw0lf | THE BATMAN DESIGN PATTERN - YOUR CODE DOESN'T NEED A SUPERHERO TO ROCK, IT JUST NEEDS COOL TOYS |
| 21:55.17 | maquis | the other question i had: STL Tutorial and Reference Guide <-- is this something that i should buy, or should i borrow a copy? (ie, is that a book that i'm likely to want to look at later?) |
| 21:55.29 | levi | dataw0lf: I agree that the x86 architecture is annoying, but unfortunately, it's the only practical architecture for a home PC right now. |
| 21:55.59 | dataw0lf | levi: Which is being perpetrated by companies like AMD that insist on building on x86. |
| 21:57.33 | levi | dataw0lf: If Intel and AMD got together and decided to ditch x86, someone would come out of nowhere and sell x86 to everyone and put them both out of business. |
| 21:58.19 | levi | dataw0lf: You'd have to overcome the software inertia before you could switch the desktop world to another CPU arch. |
| 21:58.58 | dataw0lf | levi: I don't think it's that large of a problem. |
| 21:59.16 | levi | dataw0lf: Well, it wouldn't be if Microsoft wanted to make a switch. |
| 21:59.18 | sjansen | So my boss recently discovered that WiFi uses frequencies close to what a microwave produces. He has a new personal rule: don't put the antenna in your lap while war driving. |
| 21:59.25 | dataw0lf | Intel and AMD both have the power to make deals with major software vendors to facilitate any switch. |
| 21:59.27 | levi | dataw0lf: Apple's done it several times. |
| 21:59.50 | dataw0lf | everyone else would have to fall in line. |
| 21:59.54 | levi | dataw0lf: Intel's last attempt wasn't very successful. |
| 21:59.57 | maquis | sjansen: uh... does this fall under the "i don't want to know" category? |
| 22:00.14 | dataw0lf | levi: the attempted move from 386? |
| 22:00.23 | levi | dataw0lf: To Itanium. |
| 22:00.47 | dataw0lf | levi: that's because AMD screwed them with x86-64 :) |
| 22:01.36 | levi | No, it's because it was really slow running legacy code. There was a pretty big gap between the Itanium launch and AMD64. |
| 22:02.13 | levi | It was different enough from x86 that it had different performance characteristics, too. I don't think the compilers at the time of its launch were fully able to optimize for it. |
| 22:02.27 | dataw0lf | levi: didn't they develop the first Itanium with HP? |
| 22:02.38 | dataw0lf | I can't remember. |
| 22:02.46 | levi | I know they had some Alpha engineers work on it. |
| 22:03.17 | dataw0lf | was it compatible with x86? |
| 22:03.26 | dataw0lf | i think it was |
| 22:03.28 | levi | It had a compatibility mode, but it was very slow. |
| 22:04.10 | levi | And since there was little native stuff for it at launch, and the compilers weren't well-tuned... |
| 22:04.25 | dataw0lf | when did amd64 come out? |
| 22:04.29 | dataw0lf | 2002? |
| 22:04.29 | levi | It looked like a really expensive, slow processor. |
| 22:04.40 | tristanbob | question: Do the sites who sell Linux CDs have to include or provide source code for GPL software? |
| 22:05.38 | dataw0lf | tristanbob: I'm unsure, but I think they're required to offer a package that contains all the source, and a mirror |
| 22:06.06 | tristanbob | dataw0lf: the cds are all binary packages, right? |
| 22:06.40 | dataw0lf | tristanbob: I think they can offer just binary products, but they have to offer a full CD set that includes source, too. At no additional cost. |
| 22:07.20 | levi | The Opteron was released in Apr '03. |
| 22:07.31 | dataw0lf | huh |
| 22:07.38 | dataw0lf | I would've sworn it was released earlier. |
| 22:07.48 | bonez39 | let's say I am at /tmp and I want to copy *.pdf from /home/scott to /tmp... is there a way to say...copy files from there...to right here..without having to explicitly spell out right here...wherever I am ? |
| 22:08.01 | dataw0lf | . |
| 22:08.05 | levi | Itanium was June 2001. |
| 22:08.10 | bonez39 | thanks..... |
| 22:08.11 | dataw0lf | cp /home/scott/*pdf . |
| 22:08.25 | dataw0lf | yea, that's a large gap, you're right |
| 22:08.25 | bonez39 | mucha gracias |
| 22:08.30 | dataw0lf | np |
| 22:09.03 | *** join/#utah jsmith (n=jsmith@000-150-930.area3.spcsdns.net) |
| 22:09.37 | dataw0lf | I saw a guy one time referencing the local directory like : `pwd` |
| 22:09.54 | dataw0lf | I asked him and he said it was faster than typing out the full directory path |
| 22:09.58 | dataw0lf | hehe |
| 22:10.29 | levi | Anyway, there were a number of factors involved in the Itanium flop, but flop it did. |
| 22:10.52 | levi | But for a while, it was seriously expected to replace x86. That was what Intel planned. |
| 22:10.58 | dataw0lf | while that's an interesting case, I still think it can be done well. |
| 22:11.20 | dataw0lf | anyone use irssi + silc from the Debian packages, btw? |
| 22:11.54 | levi | dataw0lf: I think you underestimate the power of inertia and overestimate the influence that Intel/AMD have. |
| 22:12.19 | elg | well, I passed all my quals |
| 22:12.20 | elg | w00t |
| 22:12.30 | elg | first to pass them all first try in 5 or 6 years |
| 22:12.31 | dataw0lf | levi: I have a pretty good grasp of what happens to hardware once it becomes standard, but that isn't something that can't be overcome. |
| 22:12.37 | dataw0lf | elg: what quals? |
| 22:12.53 | elg | qualifying exams for the phd program |
| 22:12.56 | levi | elg: Congrats! |
| 22:12.59 | elg | here at NMSU |
| 22:13.05 | dataw0lf | nice. congratulations! |
| 22:13.16 | sjansen | ~congratulate elg |
| 22:13.18 | ibot | ACTION congratulates elg on being a new owner of a $500 brick. |
| 22:13.52 | levi | dataw0lf: Well, I hope it happens. I'm pretty sure it's not on the roadmap, though. |
| 22:15.05 | dataw0lf | levi: all we got is hope, sir! Now join me in a rousing rendition of kumbaya |
| 22:15.08 | mrpull | about providing the source to GPL 'ed software... |
| 22:15.11 | *** topic/#utah by sjansen -> Channel for OSS discussion | See http://www.plug.org/node/28 | PHP workshop hosted by OALUG & UPHPU Jan 27 in Ogden- Watch http://groups-beta.google.com/group/oalug for details | Global Belly Laugh Day today (Jan 24) | elg passed the qualifying exams for his phd program! (proving even the edumacatulated hang out in #utah) |
| 22:15.17 | mrpull | no additional cost is not exactly accurate |
| 22:15.33 | mrpull | they can charge for shipping, duplication, and cost of media |
| 22:15.38 | levi | dataw0lf: On the bright side, the Itanium architecture /is/ still alive in the form of Itanium 2, which is still being sold. |
| 22:16.10 | dataw0lf | eh, gimme some Alpha arch any day of the week. |
| 22:16.19 | *** topic/#utah by mrpull -> to Channel for OSS discussion | See http://www.plug.org/node/28 | PHP workshop hosted by OALUG & UPHPU Jan 27 in Ogden- Watch http://groups-beta.google.com/group/oalug for details | Global Belly Laugh Day today (Jan 24) | elg passed the qualifying exams for his phd program! (proving even the edumacatulated hang out in #utah). | dataw0lf has sensitive nuts |
| 22:16.20 | dataw0lf | just keep OSF/1 / Tru64 away. |
| 22:18.28 | elg | thanks all |
| 22:19.02 | dataw0lf | levi: see that 'Tru' and that '64' ? ha! ;-) |
| 22:19.05 | dataw0lf | too bad the OS sucks. |
| 22:19.23 | levi | Somewhere around 2009, the Xeon and Itanium chips are supposed to use the same socket. |
| 22:20.30 | levi | If you have an Alpha with Tru64, you can get a Symbolics Lisp Machine emulator for it! |
| 22:22.51 | goozbach | pineapple |
| 22:23.41 | harleypig | GAH! I hate having to write a module in a stoopid, non oopish way when I know it's going to need to be oopish later on. |
| 22:29.07 | *** join/#utah jgiboney (n=jgiboney@71-32-236-72.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 22:30.53 | jgiboney | I'm back with another question.... I called qwest and they want me to buy a modem for $60. Is this a good price or are there better modems out there. I actually have an older one made by alcatel, which I am not sure if it is adsl, and I don't know how much longer it will last. What have you guys done? |
| 22:31.18 | levi | sjansen: A new version of Scala was just released. |
| 22:32.25 | sjansen | levi: already saw that |
| 22:32.32 | sjansen | but thanks anyway |
| 22:32.46 | jsmith | jgiboney: It's not great, but it's cheap *and* supported by Qwest |
| 22:32.48 | levi | http://www.getacoder.com/projects/need_operating_system_42879.html |
| 22:33.32 | sjansen | Looks like I won't be playing with it for awhile. Because of a major deal with a new partner I'm going to be learning to gouge my eyes out with a spoon... wait, that can't be right... I'm learning to use the OOo API to create Power Point documents. |
| 22:33.36 | sjansen | pity me |
| 22:34.17 | goozbach | sjansen, pull that off and I'll think you're the coolest |
| 22:35.07 | maquis | levi: a guy with 9-* reviews is bidding 1,111$ for that job... and says he can do it in a week... |
| 22:35.31 | levi | sjansen: Sounds like FUN! |
| 22:37.12 | harleypig | "In fact the OS will be designed to leverage jedi mind tricks to kill anyone that even thinks about breaking in." |
| 22:37.43 | goozbach | "nonotech" |
| 22:37.53 | goozbach | it's even SMALLER than nanotech |
| 22:38.02 | harleypig | :D |
| 22:39.46 | sjansen | and more secure |
| 22:41.12 | Supaplex | so, when it segfaults, it's only a tiny problem. right? |
| 22:42.25 | thaddeusq | ~spoon sjansen |
| 22:42.33 | ibot | ACTION whacks sjansen with a large, rather exquisite wooden spoon |
| 22:43.28 | sjansen | ~gag thaddeusq |
| 22:43.30 | ibot | ACTION takes away the voice of thaddeusq and, as an additional precaution, sews thaddeusq's mouth shut permanently... |
| 22:47.32 | harleypig | Hayseed Dixie does a cover of AC/DC's Big Balls ... wierd, but funy |
| 22:49.03 | mrpull | Hayseed Dixie is good stuff |
| 22:51.01 | *** join/#utah beandog (n=sdibb@gentoo/developer/beandog) |
| 23:08.02 | levi | dataw0lf: So, apparently the Itanium architecture uses a variant of VLIW called EPIC, or Explicitly Parallel Instruction set Computing. It requires compilers to figure out where the parallelism in the code is instead of the CPU. |
| 23:10.21 | Supaplex | next they'll require the programmer to actually work. my goodness. ;) |
| 23:15.32 | levi | Well, the compiler programmers had to do some pretty complex work. |
| 23:16.07 | levi | And, given the amount of work necessary, you can pretty much guarantee that gcc didn't produce good code for it right out of the gate. It may not even produce good code for it now, I don't know. |
| 23:17.45 | levi | It's a good idea, since software can perform a lot more analysis than silicon can, at least when there's static information available. |
| 23:18.31 | levi | It would probably mean big trouble for systems not amenable to static analysis, though. |
| 23:18.38 | goozbach | sjansen: where's that jazz_ |
| 23:18.59 | goozbach | s/jazz/jazz+techno mix you like |
| 23:19.15 | goozbach | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:19.21 | goozbach | dang enter key |
| 23:21.37 | sjansen | http://www.knobtweakers.net/2006/08/nils-petter-molvaer.html |
| 23:22.00 | sjansen | http://magnatune.com/artists/beatundercontrol |
| 23:22.14 | sjansen | There's two I've enjoyed so much I bought them. |
| 23:28.43 | findlay | ~remove goozbach's <enter> key |
| 23:54.34 | vontrapp | how do you get all 6 star wars movies into 4G? |
| 23:54.55 | Tene | Stop caring about quality? |
| 23:54.57 | beandog | encode them at 120x60 resolution |
| 23:55.09 | beandog | Tene: hee hee |
| 23:55.12 | vontrapp | crazyness |
| 23:55.22 | beandog | why would you want to, is the question |
| 23:55.46 | vontrapp | i don't want to, just appears that someone _did_ |
| 23:55.50 | vontrapp | beyond me |
| 23:55.54 | maquis | vontrapp: i don't think that guy has all of them available on telnet yet |
| 23:56.05 | vontrapp | hehe |
| 23:56.15 | vontrapp | that would be like 4K |
| 23:56.19 | maquis | vontrapp: if you kill the quality (ie, you're planning on sticking them on an ipod, so you have to shrink them *anyways*), you might be able to |
| 23:56.29 | maquis | vontrapp: you've seen the telnet one, right? |
| 23:56.40 | vontrapp | yeah |
| 23:56.44 | findlay | maybe they are ascii starwars |
| 23:56.52 | findlay | hires |
| 23:56.55 | vontrapp | findlay: that's the telnet one :) |
| 23:56.57 | beandog | mplayer star_wars.vob -vo caca |
| 23:56.58 | maquis | telnet star wars is great |
| 23:56.59 | beandog | :D |
| 23:57.06 | macnewbold | yeah, I love that show |
| 23:57.14 | maquis | vontrapp: aaxine might be able to make it smaller too |
| 23:57.27 | beandog | caca > aalib |
| 23:57.37 | maquis | beandog: what's the difference? |
| 23:57.40 | beandog | color |
| 23:57.41 | maquis | i've never seen caca |
| 23:57.43 | maquis | oh |
| 23:57.45 | maquis | nice |
| 23:57.49 | beandog | emerge libcaca; cacademo |
| 23:57.52 | beandog | watch the flying poo! |
| 23:57.54 | vontrapp | is there an actual ascii video encoding that you can save as? |
| 23:57.57 | beandog | (seriously) |
| 23:58.12 | findlay | color? |
| 23:58.16 | beandog | color! |
| 23:58.18 | maquis | i know ipodlinux supports aalib |
| 23:58.23 | maquis | but i don't know if it supports cacalib |
| 23:58.30 | maquis | probably will soon at the rate stuff is going there |
| 23:58.34 | findlay | wow, eventually you will be able to make movies with little tiny pixels |
| 23:58.37 | beandog | http://libcaca.zoy.org/ |
| 23:58.41 | vontrapp | caca-utils: recomended packages: toilet |
| 23:58.45 | vontrapp | :/ |
| 23:58.47 | maquis | vontrapp: :) |
| 23:58.49 | findlay | in color. You won't need ascii anymore! |
| 23:58.57 | maquis | well... it is caca... |
| 23:59.23 | findlay | at least someday that will happen |
| 23:59.34 | beandog | theres a port of doom to caca |
| 23:59.36 | beandog | I think. |
| 23:59.43 | maquis | beandog: interesting |
| 23:59.50 | maquis | doom has already been ported to the ipod, though |
| 23:59.51 | beandog | kinda fun to play with. |
| 23:59.54 | maquis | and actually quite nicely |