| 00:01.32 | mrpull | i'm lazy too... but a 150 bucks might make me get off the couch for a few minutes. |
| 00:08.11 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@216.31.27.106) |
| 00:10.40 | elg | as I listened to NPR cover macworld and the price tag on the iPhone, I again asked myself who pays $400+ for a cell phone (even one that sings and dances) |
| 00:10.51 | elg | then they talked about the $15k fire truck TV |
| 00:11.06 | elg | I guess a $400 phone isn't so bad in comparison |
| 00:11.22 | elg | I hope someday I can afford a $15k TV. If I can, I'll buy a plane. |
| 00:11.50 | mrpull | i've had $400 phones purchased for me |
| 00:12.20 | mrpull | if it is a tool that helps get work done, $500 for a phone isn't too much of a stretch |
| 00:12.47 | mrpull | going back to my point that it is too bad it doesn't do Exchange or Blackberry Enterprise Server syncing out of the box |
| 00:12.49 | elg | i can see companies forking over for one |
| 00:13.20 | elg | but would they want one where most of the $400 goes to music and video capability? I dunno. companies are weird and rich that way |
| 00:13.27 | elg | I'm thinking about people |
| 00:17.01 | mrpull | the next phone I'll likely get is $549 without a contract (399 with) |
| 00:17.17 | levi_home | elg: Many people are also rich that way. |
| 00:17.18 | mrpull | so it isn't a stretch when you compare the features |
| 00:17.27 | mrpull | http://www.cingular.com/cell-phone-service/cell-phone-details/?q_list=true&q_phoneName=Cingular+8525&q_sku=sku310005 |
| 00:17.37 | mrpull | the 8125 is our standard phone |
| 00:17.49 | mrpull | and used to cost about 400 each |
| 00:18.58 | findlay | man, I love kstars |
| 00:20.12 | levi_home | elg: Many people are willing to pay $500 or $600 for a portable electronic device. |
| 00:23.00 | elg | yeah, I know |
| 00:23.10 | elg | that's a "shake my head" and "envy them" sort of reaction |
| 00:23.17 | levi_home | Heh. |
| 00:23.18 | elg | the $15k TV, otoh... :-) |
| 00:23.53 | mrpull | some day :) |
| 00:23.55 | levi_home | All it takes for that to seem reasonable is to be rich enough. |
| 00:24.17 | mrpull | i've almost talked myself into a few $5K tv's |
| 00:24.28 | findlay | a few? |
| 00:24.30 | levi_home | Anyway, it's about time for class. |
| 00:24.33 | mrpull | and luckily talked myself out of them |
| 00:24.43 | findlay | mrpull: I'll take some money if you're going to throw money around like that (: |
| 00:25.12 | mrpull | heh... i'm not throwing it out. it seems the more I save the less I want to spend |
| 00:25.17 | mrpull | which isn't so bad I suppose |
| 00:25.47 | elg | maybe the amount you get is proportional to your wisdom |
| 00:26.02 | elg | ~nslookup 216.31.27.106 |
| 00:29.55 | findlay | ~nslookup wisdom.com |
| 00:30.10 | elg | ~nslookup falcon.fugal.net |
| 00:30.17 | findlay | how much do you want to bet they have the corner on wisdom? |
| 00:30.17 | elg | w00t |
| 00:30.56 | elg | kind of like "The Secret" movie has the corner on, um, whatever they want to call it |
| 00:35.41 | *** join/#utah Sargun (n=xbmodder@atarack/staff/sargun) |
| 00:46.40 | *** join/#utah graphyx (n=graphyx@205.208.245.105) |
| 00:52.23 | atoponce | well, it's official! tristanbob and i are official ubuntu members! |
| 00:52.34 | atoponce | break out the drinks, the rounds are on us! ツ |
| 00:55.16 | findlay | ~drink |
| 00:57.36 | beandog | congrats atoponce ! |
| 00:57.36 | beandog | :D |
| 00:57.44 | beandog | Now you have to become a dev to be really l33t |
| 00:57.49 | atoponce | beandog: thx! |
| 00:58.11 | beandog | atoponce: what does that mean, anyway? I remember reading your post about it. What do you get to do as a member? |
| 00:58.15 | atoponce | nah. documentation, marketing and advocacy is where it's at for me |
| 00:58.29 | beandog | Thats how I started, I got hired on as a staffer first. |
| 00:58.40 | atoponce | mainly, two big things: @ubuntu.com email address and business cards |
| 00:58.42 | beandog | So never say never! :) |
| 00:59.01 | atoponce | but also get to help with the community council (4 members, including mark) |
| 00:59.39 | beandog | community council? |
| 01:00.19 | atoponce | yeah. they're the governing body of ubuntu- mark shuttleworth, benjamin mako hill, colin watson, and james troup |
| 01:00.41 | atoponce | effectivly, the canonical employees and ubuntu "owners", if there is such a thing |
| 01:01.05 | beandog | huh |
| 01:01.06 | beandog | thats cool |
| 01:01.07 | beandog | :) |
| 01:01.27 | atoponce | it's basically just a respect thing. ツ |
| 01:01.59 | beandog | well if you get to help out a bit more, thats cool too. |
| 01:02.05 | findlay | beandog: dibs on the gentoo license plates (-: |
| 01:02.11 | beandog | findlay: punk |
| 01:02.20 | *** join/#utah Newsome (n=sorenson@adsl-75-0-136-70.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net) |
| 01:02.21 | findlay | I don't have them |
| 01:02.25 | findlay | .. yet (: |
| 01:02.25 | beandog | someone already does |
| 01:02.32 | findlay | who? |
| 01:02.35 | beandog | dunno |
| 01:02.36 | atoponce | heh. that was the big thing that got me approved. mark loved 'em |
| 01:02.55 | beandog | Hmm, its not taken |
| 01:03.04 | beandog | forget you, suckah! |
| 01:03.08 | findlay | no fair! |
| 01:03.18 | beandog | its all good. |
| 01:03.26 | beandog | it would look a little weird on my sports car. 8-D |
| 01:03.33 | findlay | I probably wouldn't bother anyway |
| 01:03.46 | beandog | https://secure.utah.gov/pps/step2ski.html |
| 01:04.01 | findlay | beandog: you need a huge airbrush of the gentoo 'g' on your hood |
| 01:04.06 | beandog | ooh |
| 01:04.09 | beandog | that would be sexy. |
| 01:04.24 | findlay | my friend does custom auto body painting and he could do it |
| 01:04.29 | beandog | "findlay" isn't taken |
| 01:05.00 | findlay | findlay is a pretty boring nick |
| 01:05.27 | beandog | I wouldnt mind getting "beandog" |
| 01:05.38 | beandog | Id feel like a bit too much of a nerd with gentoo tho |
| 01:05.41 | beandog | no offense, atoponce |
| 01:05.42 | beandog | ;) |
| 01:05.45 | beandog | besides |
| 01:05.46 | atoponce | beandog: none taken |
| 01:05.47 | atoponce | ツ |
| 01:05.54 | beandog | my Star Trek bumper sticker is geekness enough |
| 01:06.04 | atoponce | most people have *no* clue what it is anyway |
| 01:06.14 | findlay | heh, I have an old Ashdown sticker *and* and EFF one |
| 01:06.15 | atoponce | they always think it's an acronym |
| 01:06.30 | atoponce | u bunt u? |
| 01:06.37 | atoponce | u b untu? |
| 01:06.45 | atoponce | it's quite entertaining, actually |
| 01:07.07 | atoponce | well, time to head home |
| 01:07.14 | beandog | heh |
| 01:07.16 | findlay | well there's the old Feynman anecdote about how Feynman painted Feynman diagrams all over his hippie van |
| 01:07.16 | beandog | seeyas |
| 01:07.27 | findlay | nobody knew what they were |
| 01:07.59 | findlay | except sometimes he'd meet somebody who did and they said "You have Feynman diagrams on your van" |
| 01:08.12 | findlay | "Yes, I'm Feynman" "Cool!" |
| 01:08.28 | beandog | witw is a Feynman diagram? |
| 01:08.53 | findlay | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feynman_diagram |
| 01:09.23 | beandog | bah, evil network #2 just went down again. |
| 01:21.18 | findlay | atoponce: you got the delicate arch plates, right? Because that one matches the ubuntu color scheme best |
| 01:23.35 | *** join/#utah Vltava (n=Vltava@adsl-75-6-237-55.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 01:56.02 | elg | the arch plates are almost as ugly as the new mexico balooon plates |
| 01:58.50 | graphyx | heh |
| 02:41.09 | atoponce | findlay: no, i got the ski utah plates |
| 02:41.14 | atoponce | they look best on my car |
| 03:19.21 | nick125_lappy | elg: I guess they don't look as bad as the older plates |
| 03:37.06 | *** part/#utah graphyx (n=graphyx@205.208.245.105) |
| 04:02.23 | elg | i love the old plates |
| 04:02.29 | elg | insisted on them |
| 04:02.44 | elg | sure they stick out, but they're simple and the colors do go well together |
| 04:07.05 | tensai | ~lart elg |
| 04:15.35 | *** join/#utah herlo (n=herlo@71-219-19-242.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 04:26.23 | *** part/#utah whyisjake (n=jacobspu@71-219-36-93.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 04:51.01 | levi_home | Good evening. |
| 04:52.35 | vontrapp | ~lart tensai |
| 05:26.53 | atoponce | herlo: findlay: ping |
| 05:37.58 | findlay | atoponce: pong |
| 05:38.09 | findlay | good evening levi_home |
| 05:42.57 | atoponce | findlay: is my jabber accout in your gmail list at all? |
| 05:46.06 | findlay | atoponce: no |
| 05:46.21 | atoponce | one more time |
| 05:48.43 | atoponce | findlay: anything? |
| 05:53.07 | findlay | atoponce: nothing |
| 05:54.54 | atoponce | ibot: fix jabber |
| 05:54.55 | ibot | ACTION takes jabber to the vet for a "special" visit. |
| 05:57.14 | Sargun | noo! |
| 05:57.21 | Sargun | bad bot. |
| 05:58.01 | Sargun | uh |
| 05:59.19 | findlay | great Sargun. Now look what you did |
| 06:08.28 | findlay | how can I use find to list only the hidden directories in a directory? |
| 06:08.51 | Sargun | ls -la |
| 06:08.55 | Sargun | uh |
| 06:08.59 | findlay | that doesn't use find |
| 06:09.25 | Sargun | ls -d .* |
| 06:09.26 | Sargun | heh |
| 06:09.34 | Sargun | find|grep /. |
| 06:10.35 | findlay | this one works: |
| 06:10.37 | findlay | ls .* -Ad |
| 06:12.29 | findlay | hm, still gets . and .. |
| 06:14.52 | Tene | find . -name '.*' -maxdpeth 1 -mindepth 1 |
| 06:14.53 | Tene | ocelot |
| 06:18.26 | findlay | find: invalid predicate `-maxdpeth' |
| 06:18.38 | findlay | Tene: maybe your find skills are inferior |
| 06:18.51 | Tene | or my typing skills. |
| 06:18.55 | Tene | maxdepth |
| 06:18.59 | Tene | jerk |
| 06:19.11 | findlay | wow, you corrected it that fast? |
| 06:25.46 | findlay | ~jerk |
| 06:25.56 | ibot | methinks jerk is the derivative of acceleration with respect to time |
| 06:26.02 | findlay | ~jerky |
| 06:26.04 | ibot | You fool, don't move...maybe Cogwheel won't see us... |
| 06:35.23 | *** join/#utah atoponce (n=aaron@oalug/member/atoponce) |
| 06:36.51 | findlay | atoponce: you should have a theme .midi to go along with that onjoin |
| 06:37.26 | atoponce | who put that? |
| 06:37.53 | findlay | put what? |
| 06:38.01 | findlay | the onjoin? |
| 06:38.04 | atoponce | the onjoin |
| 06:38.06 | atoponce | yeah |
| 06:38.08 | findlay | ~onjoin #utah atoponce |
| 06:38.34 | atoponce | oh yeah. i remember. it was probably maquis |
| 06:38.49 | findlay | ~onjoin atoponce |
| 06:39.05 | atoponce | ibot: wake ibot |
| 06:39.14 | ibot | ACTION throws a barrel-full of ice water on ibot and shouts "GOOD MORNING!!!!" |
| 06:39.41 | atoponce | ~onjoin atoponce aoeuidhtns-! |
| 06:39.41 | ibot | ok, atoponce |
| 06:42.38 | atoponce | odd |
| 06:43.07 | atoponce | so, i had the same problem with herlo that i do with findlay in my jabber roster, and herlo just added without problems |
| 06:43.18 | atoponce | findlay: you're a lost cause |
| 06:43.51 | findlay | atoponce: what were herlo's instructions? |
| 06:44.19 | atoponce | i just removed him from my roster, deleted him from my jabber db, and readded, and it worked |
| 06:44.36 | findlay | so nothing I can do |
| 06:44.57 | findlay | can you even send me a IM? |
| 06:45.01 | atoponce | i dunno, but i'd like to get to the bottom of it |
| 06:45.06 | atoponce | findlay: let me try |
| 06:45.21 | atoponce | [11:45:10 PM] error while sending test ( service-unavailable ) |
| 06:45.33 | findlay | strange |
| 06:47.18 | atoponce | yeah. i don't get it |
| 06:48.25 | atoponce | i wonder... |
| 06:48.36 | findlay | atoponce: send me a test email |
| 06:49.16 | atoponce | nope |
| 06:49.19 | atoponce | ok |
| 06:49.47 | atoponce | sent |
| 06:50.34 | atoponce | now my client has changed your status from unknown to offline |
| 06:51.20 | findlay | atoponce: the email appeared to be sent from your gmail account |
| 06:51.49 | atoponce | findlay: yeah. i'll use my home server. just a sec |
| 06:52.29 | atoponce | sent. it won't be signed, though |
| 06:53.53 | findlay | there's not much more I can do on this end I think. Maybe you can try sending an IM again? |
| 06:55.05 | atoponce | can you add me? |
| 06:55.18 | atoponce | if so, can you send me an im? |
| 06:55.54 | findlay | all I can do is 'invite you to chat' whatever that means |
| 06:56.05 | atoponce | probably the same thing |
| 06:56.07 | findlay | I'll send 'invitations' to both addresses |
| 06:56.11 | atoponce | ok |
| 06:56.37 | findlay | sweet |
| 06:56.43 | findlay | now you're up twice |
| 06:57.06 | atoponce | well, i have gaim and gajim running |
| 06:57.13 | findlay | which one should I keep, the signed one or the non gmail one? |
| 06:57.52 | atoponce | sweet. got it! |
| 06:57.52 | atoponce | keep the aarontoponce.org one. i'm ditching gmail jabber |
| 06:57.59 | findlay | ok |
| 06:58.33 | atoponce | cool. well, there you go. ツ |
| 06:58.47 | findlay | yes |
| 07:02.35 | atoponce | now, on to the business cards... |
| 07:02.53 | *** join/#utah vontrapp (n=von@71.35.254.49) |
| 07:42.00 | Sargun | Anyone here dealt with voice recognition? |
| 07:42.17 | Tene | I can recognize voices. |
| 07:43.53 | Sargun | Funny. |
| 07:44.11 | Sargun | </sarcasm> |
| 08:09.16 | *** join/#utah herlo (n=herlo@71-219-19-242.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 10:06.36 | *** join/#utah ^Migs^ (n=Migs@205.122.50.69) |
| 13:54.32 | goozbach | http://xkcd.com/c208.html |
| 14:13.43 | *** join/#utah jsmith_ (n=jsmith@216.248.189.241) |
| 14:49.13 | redbeard1 | goozbach: that's awesome! |
| 14:59.29 | atoponce | anyone in plug know ryan stalcup? |
| 14:59.48 | *** join/#utah graphyx (n=graphyx@205.208.245.105) |
| 15:01.35 | *** join/#utah wps (n=wps@67.108.236.230.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 15:20.20 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 15:26.14 | elg | -lart emcnabb |
| 15:26.35 | redbeard1 | ~migs elg |
| 15:26.36 | ibot | ACTION forces elg to learn perl from ^Migs^ |
| 15:28.16 | vontrapp | how -lart elg |
| 15:28.19 | vontrapp | bah |
| 15:28.21 | vontrapp | -lart elg |
| 15:37.24 | ^Migs^ | crap, I just ate my lunch. Now I'm going to be hungry later. |
| 15:37.46 | elg | uh, yeah |
| 15:38.02 | elg | i'm still thinking about breakfast |
| 15:38.24 | *** join/#utah spr (n=spr@c-71-195-212-252.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 15:39.08 | goozbach | ohh breakfast |
| 15:41.50 | *** join/#utah findlay (n=justin@67.137.24.115) |
| 15:45.48 | ^Migs^ | I don't normally eat breakfast. That's why I got hungry. |
| 15:47.47 | elg | that's rocket science there |
| 15:48.09 | ^Migs^ | ya im smart |
| 15:48.28 | *** join/#utah WoodsDog (n=woodsdog@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com) |
| 15:53.37 | emcnabb | I haven't even looked at IRC for a week or two |
| 15:53.51 | emcnabb | have I missed anything? |
| 15:55.48 | ^Migs^ | whoa there's people talking in here |
| 15:56.17 | ^Migs^ | http://www.bash.org/?717470 |
| 15:57.28 | vontrapp | arg! i can't even get half my upgrade packages to download |
| 15:57.41 | vontrapp | connection timed out all over the place |
| 15:59.44 | goozbach | come on people! this isn't rocket surgery |
| 15:59.51 | goozbach | or brain science |
| 16:00.23 | ^Migs^ | that made me laugh harder than it should have |
| 16:01.12 | vontrapp | snow storms tomorrow!! |
| 16:01.19 | elg | emcnabb: you missed that I have a new ip address |
| 16:01.55 | vontrapp | um, and now i'm getting weather report spams |
| 16:03.31 | emcnabb | ~lart el |
| 16:03.34 | emcnabb | ~lart elg |
| 16:05.00 | elg | weather report spam? |
| 16:09.47 | vontrapp | does the fibonacci sequence include a zero? |
| 16:09.54 | *** join/#utah sjansen (n=sjansen@class1-nat.gurulabs.com) |
| 16:11.55 | vontrapp | elg: from some brock guy "SNOWFALL OF 3 TO 5 INCHES IS EXPECTED" the body goes on to talk about what an advisory is. all in freaking CAPS yelling at me |
| 16:12.35 | vontrapp | then it includes some image about stocks |
| 16:13.59 | sjansen | http://interblah.net/2007/1/10/durian-fruit-is-like-hell-in-your-mouth |
| 16:14.08 | vontrapp | mmm, durians! |
| 16:14.20 | vontrapp | it really isn't hell |
| 16:14.21 | sjansen | That fruit looks a lot like Jaca, but I can't find confirmation if they're one and the same fruit. |
| 16:14.24 | vontrapp | just bizzare |
| 16:14.35 | vontrapp | you get used to it |
| 16:15.00 | sjansen | If durian == jaca, it's disgusting. |
| 16:17.05 | Jayce^ | vontrapp, just today I started getting spams with current news headlines as the subject.. |
| 16:17.17 | vontrapp | the oder is powerful indeed, but i wouldn't say it's aweful |
| 16:49.29 | *** join/#utah tiwula (n=lane@208.64.90.18.utahbroadband.com) |
| 17:02.09 | findlay | the odor isn't awful |
| 17:09.45 | goozbach | I HATE typos |
| 17:09.59 | goozbach | esp those of just two transposed charaters |
| 17:10.19 | findlay | me too |
| 17:10.30 | findlay | but I'm just OCD |
| 17:11.39 | findlay | goozbach: do you know why an iptable rule would take about 5 s while doing a DNS lookup? |
| 17:12.06 | findlay | a rule that doesn't explicity say anything about DNS or hostnames |
| 17:12.42 | goozbach | what's the rule? |
| 17:13.09 | goozbach | iptables rules can do things that aren't too intutive |
| 17:13.28 | findlay | there's a bunch, but I'll try to pick one that appears to be giving problems |
| 17:14.40 | findlay | just a sec |
| 17:15.10 | *** join/#utah nick125- (n=ndevito@m0d0e36d0.tmodns.net) |
| 17:15.31 | nick125- | aren't cellular jammers illegal in the US? |
| 17:15.57 | sjansen | yup |
| 17:16.29 | nick125- | no matter the usage? |
| 17:16.48 | sjansen | Yes. Though some groups are trying to change the law. |
| 17:17.00 | findlay | goozbach: I think I might have found it |
| 17:17.18 | nick125- | my school says they are thinking of putting cellular jammers in, and they are legal in schools |
| 17:17.38 | sjansen | For example, theaters would love to block cell phones. Opponents argue "what about the surgeon who misses a call leading to a death?" |
| 17:18.08 | nick125- | its more like, what if someone needs to call 911 |
| 17:18.15 | sjansen | Last I heard, any jamming technology had to include a provision for not blocking emergency responders. I've never heard of schools being able to block cell phones. |
| 17:18.56 | findlay | heh, dns server is screwed up |
| 17:18.58 | nick125- | they say 4 other schools in NM do it, and its perfectly legal to do so in schools, as the schools have some kind of exception |
| 17:19.14 | ^Migs^ | I think cellular jammers should be legal everywhere, and they should be affordable so everyone can own one in their neighborhood |
| 17:19.27 | ^Migs^ | schools don't want students on their cell phones, plain and simple |
| 17:19.29 | findlay | nick125-: high school is tyrannical and despotic. Be glad when you're done with it |
| 17:19.40 | ^Migs^ | and since minors are involved, schools can do what they want |
| 17:19.47 | sjansen | If I were a school, I'd tread very lightly. Who knows, it may be true. But it seems awfully strange. |
| 17:19.57 | nick125- | sjansen: can you get me a link to the laws against it and PM it to when when I get online later please? |
| 17:20.01 | ^Migs^ | high schools are only tyrannical and despotic because high school students are so unruly |
| 17:20.04 | nick125- | I would really appriciate it |
| 17:20.23 | ^Migs^ | give it up, nick125. Schools can do whatever they want to you, and you can't do squat about it. |
| 17:20.35 | findlay | yup, that's basically it |
| 17:20.43 | nick125- | heh, I can turn them over to the FCC if they do |
| 17:20.44 | nick125- | :) |
| 17:20.55 | findlay | that was quick |
| 17:21.01 | findlay | they must have found him |
| 17:21.05 | sjansen | You can use google just as well as I can. |
| 17:21.29 | sjansen | My information is more than a year old, although I would have expected a slash if it'd changed. |
| 17:22.17 | sjansen | Schools should be able to beat children because teenagers act out so much. And because minors are involved, schools can do what they want. |
| 17:23.16 | *** join/#utah [phoenyx] (n=tthorley@64.147.152.13) |
| 17:23.30 | sjansen | I think setting up pirate radio stations and transmitting on the same frequency as another station should be legal everywhere, and the equipment should be affordable to everyone can own in in their neighborhood. |
| 17:23.30 | findlay | reverse DNS is broken |
| 17:23.41 | *** join/#utah unum (n=unum@70.89.247.221) |
| 17:25.01 | ^Migs^ | sjansen makes a lot of sense |
| 17:25.07 | tristanbob | I just got Warcraft 3 installed using Wine on Ubuntu 6.10. My only problem is that I have dual-monitors, and the game is spread across both screen. It is unplayable |
| 17:25.13 | ^Migs^ | why is it now unacceptable for teachers to paddle their kids? |
| 17:25.19 | *** join/#utah fungus (n=fungus@2001:470:1f00:645:250:8dff:fe71:9a6b) |
| 17:25.31 | ^Migs^ | I didn't think warcraft 3 was wine-ready yet |
| 17:25.31 | levi | Poor tristanbob. |
| 17:25.39 | ^Migs^ | or wine was warcraft 3-ready yet |
| 17:25.43 | tristanbob | it is rated gold on wine website |
| 17:25.51 | ^Migs^ | oh, I'm thinking World of Warcraft |
| 17:25.53 | tristanbob | right |
| 17:26.05 | ^Migs^ | sweet, I need to install Linux on one of my boxes at home |
| 17:26.20 | levi | I used to play Starcraft via Wine all the time. |
| 17:26.30 | ^Migs^ | or I guess I could just keep Windows and play Warcraft 3 anyway |
| 17:26.35 | levi | I wonder of my Starcraft CDs still work. |
| 17:26.41 | ^Migs^ | why wouldn't they? |
| 17:26.48 | ^Migs^ | Starcraft is still a popular game |
| 17:27.23 | tristanbob | http://appdb.winehq.org/appview.php?iVersionId=1177 |
| 17:28.09 | levi | They are actually CDRs, and really old ones at that. |
| 17:28.38 | tristanbob | here is starcraft http://appdb.winehq.org/appview.php?iAppId=72 |
| 17:28.49 | tristanbob | it is only rated silver |
| 17:29.09 | levi | It used to work really well. |
| 17:32.33 | ^Migs^ | CDs are really an awful form of data storage |
| 17:32.54 | levi | Well, I won't cry if it doesn't work anymore. I don't even have time to play it. |
| 17:33.03 | ^Migs^ | I've been playing FEAR. |
| 17:33.09 | ^Migs^ | That games nearly gives me nightmares. Uberfun. |
| 17:33.42 | vontrapp | there was a post about cd/dvd media archival quality on plug about a month ago |
| 17:34.42 | *** join/#utah harleypig (n=harleypi@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 17:34.46 | ^Migs^ | I'm watching a webinar, and this guy says "um" literally every 4 words |
| 17:35.23 | levi | If I haven't looked at something I burned to CDR in 4 or 5 years, clearly I don't care much about it. |
| 17:35.23 | harleypig | ^Migs^: umm ... what's wrong with that ... umm ... I don't see a ... umm ... problem with that. |
| 17:35.27 | harleypig | um |
| 17:35.45 | harleypig | levi: Kids kindergarten graduation ? |
| 17:36.01 | sjansen | What's the Python equivalent of instanceof or isa? |
| 17:36.22 | levi | If I don't look at it, I probably don't care that much. I don't have any video of /my/ kindergarten graduation, and it doesn't bother me. |
| 17:36.25 | vontrapp | or kind_of? |
| 17:36.53 | ^Migs^ | this guy is driving me nuts |
| 17:37.01 | levi | I admit there are probably some things that need to be preserved, even if you aren't going to look at them regularly. |
| 17:37.08 | ^Migs^ | now he's saying "um" every other word |
| 17:37.20 | sjansen | vontrapp: yeah |
| 17:37.22 | levi | But that's not the case for the junk I've burned to CDR because I'm a packrat. |
| 17:37.23 | ^Migs^ | I'm so glad I didn't pay for this |
| 17:38.33 | vontrapp | ^Migs^: stop listening |
| 17:39.39 | vontrapp | here's the link to the article about optical media quality |
| 17:39.42 | vontrapp | http://adterrasperaspera.com/blog/2006/10/30/how-to-choose-cddvd-archival-media/ |
| 17:39.59 | *** join/#utah tristanbob (n=tristan@oalug/member/tristanbob) |
| 17:40.36 | findlay | vontrapp: it would be nice if manufacturers were more explicit about media quality |
| 17:40.52 | tristanbob | good news, I found a way to run it on one screen. edit xorg.conf and add a new resolution with a NULL as the second screen. Then change to that resolution when it is time to play the game |
| 17:41.30 | tristanbob | now I just have to figure how to get it to connect to battlenet |
| 17:42.29 | ^Migs^ | vontrapp: I can't. Im' recording the webinar. |
| 17:42.43 | tristanbob | warcraft 3 is now frozen, and I can't figure how to kill it |
| 17:42.48 | ^Migs^ | CDs will oxidize after about 11 years, that's all I know |
| 17:43.01 | ^Migs^ | actually, it's frozen throne |
| 17:43.04 | ^Migs^ | oh |
| 17:43.09 | ^Migs^ | nm |
| 17:43.22 | tristanbob | ahh I got it - kill -9 (the process of war3.exe) |
| 17:43.44 | vontrapp | ^Migs^: _most_ cd's will oxidize after about 11 years |
| 17:43.46 | tristanbob | "pkill war3.exe" didn't do it for me |
| 17:43.56 | vontrapp | supposedlly the ones this guy touts are supposed to last 70+ years |
| 17:44.22 | vontrapp | pkill works about 50% of the time, i think |
| 17:44.24 | findlay | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:44.33 | findlay | why would that want to do a DNS lookup? |
| 17:44.36 | vontrapp | ~accept findlay |
| 17:44.43 | findlay | and if it does, how do I disable it? |
| 17:48.09 | ^Migs^ | vontrapp: ALL CDs oxidize eventually |
| 17:48.49 | findlay | and ALL THE REST get reduced |
| 17:48.59 | *** join/#utah Newsome (n=sorenson@adsl-68-22-220-206.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net) |
| 17:49.16 | findlay | thank you, thank you. Please save your laughing until the end |
| 17:53.44 | ^Migs^ | do any of the buses in Utah have wifi yet? |
| 17:56.15 | tensai | ~mock findlay |
| 17:56.18 | ibot | ACTION pulls findlay's pants down and shows the world findlay's pink spotted underwear |
| 17:56.41 | ^Migs^ | ~pants tensai |
| 17:56.42 | ibot | ACTION steals tensai's pants |
| 17:56.54 | ^Migs^ | ~ibot tensai |
| 17:56.55 | ibot | somebody said tensai was a large smoked salmon |
| 17:57.48 | *** join/#utah butangero (n=butanger@64.0.192.65) |
| 17:58.01 | vontrapp | ^Migs^: not gold cd's, i imagine |
| 18:00.06 | findlay | but what do gold CDs taste like? |
| 18:01.43 | [phoenyx] | ^Migs^: the ogden/salt lake routes have wifi |
| 18:03.32 | findlay | that might make up for the 4 hour round trip time on the 72 |
| 18:04.11 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@falcon.fugal.net) |
| 18:04.52 | elg | vontrapp: haha. someone is targeting you |
| 18:05.35 | findlay | or was it the 74? |
| 18:11.25 | ^Migs^ | I imagine once the commuter rail is built, it will have wifi, too |
| 18:12.16 | *** join/#utah macnewbol1 (n=mac@cg.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 18:12.49 | findlay | I bet the commuter rail will be too fast for wifi. They will have to use fiber |
| 18:14.18 | vontrapp | how do you connect fiber to a train? |
| 18:14.26 | ^Migs^ | you plant it in the tracks |
| 18:14.26 | vontrapp | elg: how do you mean targeting me? |
| 18:14.32 | findlay | you have to be very, very fast |
| 18:14.39 | ^Migs^ | that way, the train will touch the fiber topic cables and you'll have Internet access |
| 18:15.37 | vontrapp | building a moving electrical joint is easier than a moving optical joint |
| 18:15.39 | ^Migs^ | why aren't CDs and DVDs made of platinum? |
| 18:15.55 | vontrapp | or titanium |
| 18:16.06 | ^Migs^ | or dolemite |
| 18:16.25 | vontrapp | what is a mirror made out of? mirrors don't seem to oxidize |
| 18:16.32 | ^Migs^ | mirrors are made out of glass |
| 18:16.34 | vontrapp | hmmm, dolemite |
| 18:16.48 | ^Migs^ | and glass is made out of mirrors |
| 18:16.50 | vontrapp | the reflective part |
| 18:17.00 | ^Migs^ | reflectium |
| 18:17.09 | vontrapp | there you go, just use that in cd's |
| 18:17.13 | ^Migs^ | yeah |
| 18:17.14 | findlay | yeah |
| 18:17.21 | findlay | good idea |
| 18:17.38 | findlay | glass CDs |
| 18:17.38 | ^Migs^ | or we could return to the basics, and make CDs out of natural products, like mud |
| 18:17.40 | ^Migs^ | and silicon |
| 18:17.57 | vontrapp | cdr/dvd+-r, certified reflectium construction!! |
| 18:18.00 | findlay | I bet a CD with a 10 m diameter wouldn't decay as fast |
| 18:18.04 | ^Migs^ | we need CDs that don't get scratched |
| 18:18.11 | findlay | made of brick or something |
| 18:18.14 | ^Migs^ | yeah |
| 18:18.18 | ^Migs^ | concrete CDs |
| 18:18.18 | findlay | something sturdy |
| 18:18.32 | vontrapp | it still has to be reflective |
| 18:18.47 | findlay | no it's like those plunk wheel jewelry boxes |
| 18:18.47 | vontrapp | (not to be confused with reflexive) |
| 18:18.52 | ^Migs^ | just mix concrete and reflectium together and you get reflective bricks |
| 18:19.57 | findlay | I'll trade your linear algebra class for my English class |
| 18:19.58 | vontrapp | chuck those bricks at your tv/computer and you get a movie! a really exciting one, at that |
| 18:20.22 | ^Migs^ | CDs could be made of diamonds, too |
| 18:20.31 | vontrapp | enjoy as many movies as you have electronic devices! all for the cost of one brick!! |
| 18:20.34 | ^Migs^ | they'll be refractive, not reflective, though |
| 18:20.51 | findlay | new data medium then |
| 18:21.53 | levi | Sweet, the AppleTV doesn't have DRM on its video ouput ports. |
| 18:22.22 | ^Migs^ | maybe CDs could be made of millions of nanobots. Then they could be customizable, somehow. |
| 18:22.30 | vontrapp | wth, why is the apple computers no more thread so stinkin' popular |
| 18:22.35 | findlay | vontrapp: once it does, we will all be superman |
| 18:22.54 | vontrapp | *supermen |
| 18:27.56 | levi | vontrapp: Because people like to talk about cool little gadgets, especially when they are made by Apple. |
| 18:28.19 | levi | vontrapp: Some lust after them, and some hate them with passion. Perfect recipe for a lively discussion! |
| 18:28.31 | vontrapp | ^D |
| 18:29.48 | vontrapp | and those thread breakers just make it worse |
| 18:31.28 | vontrapp | ~lart thread-breakers |
| 18:39.28 | sjansen | Does anyone know if python has an idiom for naming functions that modify their arguments? For example, Ruby's "str.rstrip" vs "str.rstrip!"? |
| 18:39.48 | vontrapp | sjansen: just give it up, python isn't as cool as ruby |
| 18:40.24 | sjansen | I know it isn't. I never could find a decent equivalent to kind_of? |
| 18:41.57 | *** join/#utah carrus85 (n=carrus85@216.83.145.38) |
| 18:46.29 | *** join/#utah calvarez (n=Hhhhh@r82h185.res.gatech.edu) |
| 18:46.30 | Tene | What is "kind_of"? |
| 18:47.00 | calvarez | it's like "sort_of" |
| 18:47.31 | *** join/#utah Hhhhh (n=Hhhhh@r82h185.res.gatech.edu) |
| 18:51.53 | goozbach | findlay: I don't know why that would cause a problem |
| 18:54.17 | sjansen | Tene: instanceof |
| 18:54.30 | sjansen | foo.kind_of?( String ) |
| 18:54.51 | Tene | ~goozbach sjansen |
| 18:54.53 | ibot | ACTION burns down sjansen's house with an army of flaming Elmos. |
| 18:54.54 | levi | I like the ? and ! naming conventions. |
| 18:54.58 | Tene | ~sjansen goozbach |
| 18:54.59 | ibot | ACTION tells goozbach good things about sjansen |
| 18:54.59 | vontrapp | Tene: kind_of? returns true if the parameter is the objects class or an ancestor thereof (or even if the parm is a module the object includes) |
| 18:54.59 | levi | Scheme uses them as well. |
| 18:55.02 | sjansen | foo instanceof java.crazy.insane.depth.String |
| 18:55.53 | sjansen | levi: Me too. I really liked Scala's conventions on function names with none alpha characters. |
| 18:55.57 | levi | One thing I dislike about Python is that a lot of the basic functions are both destructive and don't return a useful value. |
| 18:56.14 | *** join/#utah herlo (n=herlo@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com) |
| 18:56.25 | levi | sjansen: Have you worked with Scala much yet? |
| 18:56.26 | jsmith | herlo! |
| 18:56.40 | herlo | jsmith: !!! |
| 18:56.50 | sjansen | The biggest thing that bugs me about Python is it's inconsistency. Which is funny because one of the things I love about Python is it's simple and consistent syntax. |
| 18:56.54 | sjansen | levi: Not yet. |
| 18:57.13 | sjansen | s/it's/its/ |
| 18:57.39 | levi | sjansen: Have you worked with any ML-style languages before? |
| 18:57.44 | sjansen | nope |
| 18:58.08 | levi | Well, Scala may take some effort to get used to, then. It's definitely worth learning at least one ML-family language, though. |
| 18:58.11 | vontrapp | sjansen: no, python _is_ simple and consistent syntax |
| 18:58.36 | calvarez | there are few inconsistencies, but they're minor |
| 18:58.38 | vontrapp | does anyone know how those ...! variants of ruby methods are implemented? |
| 18:59.00 | elg | huh? |
| 18:59.00 | calvarez | and the syntax is beautiful. And I love the "doing it the right way" approach |
| 18:59.02 | vontrapp | is one implemented first, the other being an extension of it? or does each kinda do the whole thing it's own way |
| 18:59.03 | levi | I still like Python in general. |
| 18:59.11 | elg | dunno |
| 18:59.17 | vontrapp | e.g. sort and sort! |
| 18:59.23 | elg | msot of the core ones are implemented in C I think |
| 18:59.33 | calvarez | out of several languages I've seen, python's syntax is the most elegant IMO |
| 18:59.40 | elg | but it certainly could be implemented as a frontend to sort |
| 18:59.43 | vontrapp | does sort! call sort and then modify the object, or does sort duplicate the object and then call sort! |
| 18:59.47 | elg | though for memory reasons it probably isn't |
| 18:59.48 | sjansen | calvarez: How many languages have you used? If all you've ever learned is Python idioms, you probably haven't noticed its warts. |
| 18:59.51 | vontrapp | this is something i've wondered intensely about |
| 18:59.55 | elg | or that way |
| 18:59.58 | elg | look at the code :) |
| 19:00.00 | levi | I think Haskell's syntax is more elegant than Python's, but Python's is definitely simpler. |
| 19:00.18 | sjansen | Lisp has the most elegant syntax I've seen. Don't know Haskell. |
| 19:00.32 | calvarez | sjansen, I've tried a little bit of O'Caml, perl, PHP, C/C++, a little bit of Scheme |
| 19:00.35 | levi | Well, Lisp syntax is elegant in an entirely different way. |
| 19:00.47 | elg | I think assembly is elegant |
| 19:00.51 | elg | some assemblies, anyhow |
| 19:01.04 | calvarez | raw binary data is elegant |
| 19:01.12 | calvarez | those opcodes are beautiful |
| 19:01.17 | [phoenyx] | and definitely simpler |
| 19:01.25 | levi | Haskell's is elegant in a somewhat similar way to Python. It has significant whitespace, etc. |
| 19:02.00 | elg | so I need to either brush up on avl trees or learn red-back trees |
| 19:02.13 | elg | feel free to try to sway me to your side |
| 19:02.37 | levi | I never learned either very deeply, so I have no opinion. |
| 19:02.49 | sjansen | The biggest thing I dislike about Python is the builtins. They seem to have no rhyme or reason. |
| 19:02.52 | elg | apparently it's a holy war |
| 19:02.56 | levi | But you should learn Judy Trees. |
| 19:02.58 | elg | Tene: how about RBT? |
| 19:03.12 | Tene | Nah, I'm not in the mood for capitals. |
| 19:03.21 | elg | levi: maybe after quals |
| 19:03.23 | elg | what are judy trees? |
| 19:03.31 | elg | Tene: AVL is usually capitalized too |
| 19:03.50 | levi | They're a relatively new tree structure that's based on the size of cache lines. |
| 19:03.55 | calvarez | Tene, excellent point |
| 19:03.59 | sjansen | Lemon Tree, very pretty, and the flower is sweet. But the fruit of the poor lemon is a thing one can not traverse. |
| 19:04.11 | sjansen | ~slap Tene |
| 19:04.13 | ibot | ACTION slaps Tene, keep your grubby fingers to yourself! |
| 19:04.27 | Tene | calvarez: I wasn't making a point, I was being a jerk. |
| 19:04.29 | sjansen | Tene: Watch your language. There's no call for swearing. |
| 19:04.42 | calvarez | Tene, hehe, an intentional point then :) |
| 19:04.43 | Tene | "$other is worse" isn't a valid point at all. |
| 19:04.58 | calvarez | s/intentional/unintentional/ |
| 19:05.42 | sjansen | $language_whose_name_impressionable_programmers_should_not_hear is in a class nearly of its own. |
| 19:06.03 | sjansen | You have to look to languages like BrainF*ck or Cobol to find worse. |
| 19:06.42 | levi | elg: http://judy.sourceforge.net/doc/10minutes.htm |
| 19:07.06 | sjansen | One nice thing about Python is that it seems to stimulate neuron growth. $other_language seems to be designed to kill brain cells. |
| 19:07.22 | Tene | maybe there should be a php equivalent to Godwin's law. |
| 19:07.45 | sjansen | ~warn Tene |
| 19:08.14 | levi | elg: Seems like they're pretty complex, but much faster than any binary tree. |
| 19:08.41 | levi | sjansen: Anyway, when you do get around to playing with Scala, I'd be interested to hear your impressions. |
| 19:08.52 | levi | I might be able to give some pointers, too, if you have specific questions or problems. |
| 19:09.03 | elg | levi: here's a good discussion on avl vs rb |
| 19:09.04 | levi | Though I still only know it on a pretty superficial level. |
| 19:09.21 | elg | splay trees look interesting to look at some day too |
| 19:09.57 | calvarez | have you guys tried Whitespace? |
| 19:10.00 | elg | I think I'll optimize for my limited brain ram rather than for the marginal benefits of R-B |
| 19:10.02 | calvarez | http://compsoc.dur.ac.uk/whitespace/ |
| 19:10.17 | calvarez | the best programming language |
| 19:10.24 | calvarez | in all accounts, all cases |
| 19:11.22 | sjansen | Brilliant! |
| 19:12.05 | elg | next week will be fun. 5 4-hour tests |
| 19:12.15 | elg | in 3 days |
| 19:13.27 | levi | Quals? |
| 19:16.35 | calvarez | Also try CHEF (http://www.dangermouse.net/esoteric/chef.html), Piet (http://www.dangermouse.net/esoteric/piet/samples.html), var'aq (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Var%27aq) and Shakespeare(http://shakespearelang.sourceforge.net/report/shakespeare/) |
| 19:16.39 | elg | ya |
| 19:17.03 | levi | Piet is cool. |
| 19:17.19 | calvarez | in fact, we should make exclusively programming on one or more of these languages a requisite to join this channel |
| 19:17.32 | calvarez | everyone in favor say "Aye" |
| 19:17.34 | calvarez | Aye |
| 19:18.19 | levi | Time for lunch. |
| 19:31.15 | sjansen | I swear, if I have to type ' '.join(foo) one more time I'm going to scream! |
| 19:31.41 | Tene | sjansen: elaborate |
| 19:33.05 | sjansen | Which makes more sense to you? foo.join(' ') or ' '.join(foo) |
| 19:35.14 | [phoenyx] | foo.join(' ') |
| 19:37.07 | [phoenyx] | what language uses ' '.join(foo) ? |
| 19:39.46 | sjansen | Python. |
| 19:41.06 | [phoenyx] | seems backwards, but I do mostly OO programming |
| 19:44.47 | Tene | That's how python does join?! |
| 19:44.50 | Tene | >< |
| 19:45.28 | elg | the language of insanity |
| 20:03.08 | ^Migs^ | lol @ python |
| 20:03.11 | ^Migs^ | no wonder no one uses it |
| 20:03.41 | ^Migs^ | seriously. lol. |
| 20:05.22 | elg | actuall the wonder is that people do use it |
| 20:05.26 | elg | imho |
| 20:07.58 | ^Migs^ | agreed. It's both a wonder that no one uses it and a wonder that people use it. |
| 20:10.40 | sjansen | In defense of Python, it does have a lot of good things. |
| 20:10.58 | ^Migs^ | such as? |
| 20:11.50 | sjansen | The community does a good job of teaching good programming habits. Not only is the language designed to promote clean code, community produced examples are usually good quality. |
| 20:12.14 | Tene | That's something that I've actually noticed. |
| 20:12.41 | sjansen | In comparison, PHP promotes unmaintainable design and the community is full of idiots. |
| 20:12.42 | ^Migs^ | communities suck |
| 20:12.52 | ^Migs^ | well, that's a good point |
| 20:13.12 | ^Migs^ | I really don't think PHP promotes unmaintainable design, actually. It's the idiot users who do. |
| 20:13.28 | sjansen | Perl has some really brilliant people and great docs, but you have to get past the steep initial learning curve, and you have to be pretty disciplined about writing clean code. |
| 20:13.36 | Tene | ^Migs^: so, there's this thing called Namespaces... |
| 20:14.02 | ^Migs^ | PHP is more open-ended and lets you do what you want. For many people, it's produce unmaintainable code. |
| 20:14.29 | emcnabb | ~lart sjansen |
| 20:14.29 | Tene | ~php sjansen |
| 20:14.32 | sjansen | ^Migs^: Any language designer that things addslashes() is a good idea should be taken to the center of town and pelted with rotten fruit. |
| 20:14.41 | sjansen | s/things/thinks/ |
| 20:14.58 | vontrapp | addslashes()? |
| 20:15.15 | ^Migs^ | addslashes() r0x my s0x |
| 20:15.19 | Tene | ... |
| 20:15.20 | ^Migs^ | removeslashes() too |
| 20:15.25 | Tene | Are you serious, migs? |
| 20:15.36 | graphyx | I actually agree somewhat with sjansen this time. |
| 20:15.37 | ^Migs^ | and mysql_real_escape_string() yo |
| 20:15.44 | sjansen | "select * from users where lastname like " + addslashes("O'Reilly") |
| 20:15.53 | ^Migs^ | no |
| 20:15.59 | ^Migs^ | you'd use mysql_real_escape_string() there. |
| 20:16.02 | ^Migs^ | see, you're one of those idiots using PHP |
| 20:16.23 | vontrapp | no, he's one of those idiots not using php |
| 20:16.29 | ^Migs^ | I was being half-serious about addslashes() |
| 20:16.30 | vontrapp | which makes him less of an idiot right there |
| 20:16.44 | ^Migs^ | okay, so sjansen is only a half-idito |
| 20:16.45 | ^Migs^ | *idiot |
| 20:17.09 | sjansen | First of all, escaping single quotes with slashes is a non-portable mysql-ism. |
| 20:17.27 | ^Migs^ | so? |
| 20:17.33 | sjansen | So it never should have been invented for that reason alone. |
| 20:18.10 | sjansen | Second of all, requiring programmers to remember to escape values while building queries is just plain stupid. |
| 20:18.12 | ^Migs^ | I think you have a lot to learn about PHP |
| 20:18.34 | ^Migs^ | no it's not, you just mysql_real_escape_string() your whole query each time. Problem solved. |
| 20:18.40 | sjansen | ^Migs^: I realize that PHP has moved on. However, it still has the old baggage and a sea of bad examples. |
| 20:18.41 | ^Migs^ | J2EE does the same thing |
| 20:18.58 | jsmith | sjansen: Why not just use parameterized queries? |
| 20:19.05 | Tene | jsmith: that's his point. |
| 20:19.13 | ^Migs^ | you still have to prevent mysql injection, jsmith |
| 20:19.27 | sjansen | query("select * from users where lastname like ? ", "O'Reilly") <-- much better design, hence PEAR, etc. |
| 20:19.29 | jsmith | ^Migs^: No, parameterization takes care of that. |
| 20:19.44 | Tene | ^Migs^: I think you have a lot to learn about dealing with databases. |
| 20:19.45 | ^Migs^ | not if the parameters are injectful |
| 20:19.54 | Tene | ... |
| 20:19.55 | ^Migs^ | I think you have a lot to learn about being awesome |
| 20:20.00 | jsmith | ^Migs^: Huh? |
| 20:20.00 | [phoenyx] | lol |
| 20:20.04 | Tene | I think you should fall in a hole and die. |
| 20:20.06 | sjansen | Parameterization, done right, takes care of it. Maybe PHP continues to get it wrong. I wouldn't know. |
| 20:20.27 | jsmith | ^Migs^: You can put all the semicolons and "injectful" stuff you want --- parameterization takes care of all of that (or at least should!) |
| 20:20.33 | jsmith | If it doesn't, it's a bug |
| 20:20.40 | ^Migs^ | it doesn't in PHP |
| 20:20.45 | *** join/#utah neybar (n=jalance@pollux.northsky.com) |
| 20:20.48 | ^Migs^ | unless you accommodate for it |
| 20:20.53 | ^Migs^ | PHP is still a noob |
| 20:21.08 | sjansen | If PHP were willing to break backwards compatibilty and clean house, I wouldn't complain so much. It's ease of use, friendly community, pervasive install base are all commendable. |
| 20:21.09 | ^Migs^ | but on the other hand, it helps introduce many people to programming |
| 20:21.18 | jsmith | ^Migs^: Are you *sure*? |
| 20:21.36 | ^Migs^ | sure, back when I was a noob PHP got me started on web development |
| 20:21.36 | goozbach | only fools are positive |
| 20:21.59 | sjansen | Unfortunately, it needs to purge idiot language designs and recognize that security and ease or correct use should be a higher priority than ease of newbie use. |
| 20:22.17 | sjansen | Python is also a newbie friendly language, but it makes it harder to do stupid things. |
| 20:22.27 | ^Migs^ | maybe it'll start on that in PHP 6 |
| 20:22.28 | ^Migs^ | Ruby is pretty newbie friendly too |
| 20:22.35 | Jayce^ | goozbach, you sure? |
| 20:22.41 | ^Migs^ | omg r u sure? |
| 20:25.07 | Tene | sjansen: PHP *is* willing to break backwards compatibility. |
| 20:25.11 | Tene | They do it all the time. |
| 20:25.37 | sjansen | PHP is moving in the right direction in starts and fits. |
| 20:25.55 | sjansen | Frankly, I think it'd be better off if it jettisoned its creator, though. |
| 20:25.57 | Tene | Having to figure out just what version of php something will run on is a nontrivial part of my dread and anxiety when I find out that I need to work on a PHP project. |
| 20:28.33 | [phoenyx] | two things that bugged me about PHP: no namespaces and inconsistent naming. I would often name my functions the same as built-in functions and I could never remember if it was add_slashes() or addslashes() |
| 20:34.35 | sjansen | The think I most dislike about PHP is that it's like whiskey to an alcoholic. People complain that it's too easy to produce unmaintainable Perl code, but PHP it's even more tempting to build lousy software in PHP. |
| 20:38.49 | tristanbob | which bittorrent client do you use in Linux? |
| 20:40.00 | Tene | rtorrent |
| 20:40.14 | Tene | ~rtorrent++ |
| 20:40.23 | Jayce^ | agreed |
| 20:41.05 | Tene | It's also fairly easy to prodce *maintainable* perl cod. Is it easy to produce maintainable PHP? |
| 20:41.21 | Tene | It doesn't look like it from my experience, but my experience is limited. |
| 20:41.32 | sjansen | Well... It is as long as you don't limit yourself to the core language. |
| 20:42.10 | sjansen | You have to know what stuff to avoid. A good rule to start would be, if you can do it with a PEAR or a core function, use PEAR. |
| 20:42.35 | sjansen | Oh, and of course, do MVC from the start. You'll thank yourself later. |
| 20:44.03 | ^Migs^ | I don't find myself particularly tempted to produce lousy software in PHP |
| 20:44.07 | goozbach | Jayce^: I'm positive |
| 20:44.14 | sjansen | One of the problems with PHP is that other programmers who aren't as discipline can whip together something unmaintainable faster. You look bad to management because they can't factor in the future savings. |
| 20:45.18 | ^Migs^ | I like PHP's Smarty templating system |
| 20:45.24 | ^Migs^ | Smarty is totally awesome |
| 20:45.43 | ^Migs^ | it encourages at least part of the MVC architecture |
| 20:46.31 | ^Migs^ | anyone who disagrees is wrong. The End. |
| 20:47.03 | ^Migs^ | I made a chicken with stuffing casserole in my crockpot last night, and it turned out disgusting |
| 20:47.13 | ^Migs^ | well, not disgusting, just not as good as I expected |
| 20:48.38 | [phoenyx] | I used smarty for a while |
| 20:48.49 | [phoenyx] | but the more I used it, the less I liked |
| 20:48.51 | [phoenyx] | it |
| 20:49.51 | [phoenyx] | why do you need a templating system for a language that is already basically a templating system? |
| 20:50.13 | sjansen | So that your designers can't write code. |
| 20:50.39 | Tene | PHP originally *was* a templating system. |
| 20:50.47 | Tene | And it *does* make a decent templating system. |
| 20:50.56 | sjansen | But you're right, most of the time it seems like a terrible waste to use a templating system with PHP when it's already a great templating system by itself. |
| 20:51.19 | tristanbob | how do I get azureus to be the default application used for torrents? |
| 20:51.37 | Tene | tristanbob: in what environment and what applications? |
| 20:52.07 | tristanbob | ubuntu 6.10 - gnome |
| 20:52.19 | tristanbob | firefox 2.0 |
| 20:52.57 | Tene | int he 'open with application' dialog thing in FF, there should be a thing to choose the application, and then you should be able to set it as the default. |
| 20:53.19 | tristanbob | I do get the choose dialogue, but no "make default" option |
| 20:53.28 | tristanbob | never mind - I see it |
| 20:53.40 | tristanbob | "do this automatically for files like this from now on" |
| 20:54.03 | ^Migs^ | I see the problem. You're approaching PHP as a templating system, not a real, actual programming language. |
| 20:54.36 | tristanbob | Tene: worked! thanks |
| 20:55.19 | [phoenyx] | It's both |
| 20:55.19 | [phoenyx] | so why do I need duplo blocks when I already have legos? |
| 20:57.24 | tristanbob | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:02.17 | tristanbob | ok, I fixed it by deleting my /home/user/.azureus folder |
| 21:04.00 | ^Migs^ | duplos > legos |
| 21:10.44 | goozbach | or openacs |
| 21:10.48 | goozbach | both are good |
| 21:10.49 | Tene | Catalyst++ |
| 21:11.17 | goozbach | openACS is diminishing IMO |
| 21:11.31 | goozbach | I haven't done much with it for a long while. |
| 21:27.58 | *** part/#utah Newsome (n=sorenson@adsl-68-22-220-206.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net) |
| 21:28.58 | goozbach | ~seen rsimpkins |
| 21:29.07 | ibot | rsimpkins is currently on #utah. Has said a total of 32 messages. Is idling for 1d 2h 37m 45s, last said: 'Only off by $300.'. |
| 21:30.44 | goozbach | rsimpkins: I was doing some reminising and was wondering if you still have those pictures from LIF3 way back when |
| 21:41.42 | *** join/#utah calvarez (n=Hhhhh@r82h185.res.gatech.edu) |
| 21:41.59 | calvarez | http://www.tiobe.com/index.htm?tiobe_index |
| 21:42.09 | calvarez | interesting, have you guys seem this before? |
| 21:42.20 | calvarez | a ranking of progrmming languages by popularity |
| 21:42.24 | levi | You haven't seen it before? |
| 21:42.50 | calvarez | I had a couple of times, but I've never dfiscussed it here |
| 21:42.55 | levi | calvarez: Python is only #8. You have a lot of evangelism to do! |
| 21:43.08 | calvarez | considering the uber-recurrent topic of language flame wars in this channel, I thought of sharinmg |
| 21:43.18 | calvarez | true, I'm on it ;) |
| 21:43.35 | calvarez | LISP is #18 :O ;) |
| 21:44.18 | [phoenyx] | how do they do the ranking? |
| 21:44.27 | calvarez | what's interesting is, Python us almost tied with C# |
| 21:44.30 | levi | Clearly I need to learn ABAP. |
| 21:44.35 | calvarez | The TIOBE Programming Community index gives an indication of the popularity of programming languages. The index is updated once a month. The ratings are based on the world-wide availability of skilled engineers, courses and third party vendors. The popular search engines Google, MSN, and Yahoo! are used to calculate the ratings. Observe that the TIOBE index is not about the best programming language or the language in which most lines of code have |
| 21:44.35 | calvarez | been written. |
| 21:45.02 | calvarez | world-wide availability of engineers, courses and 3rd party vendors |
| 21:45.58 | levi | calvarez: Unless I got a different list, Lisp/Scheme is #16 and COBOL is #18. |
| 21:46.10 | calvarez | by bad, #16 |
| 21:46.12 | calvarez | mistype |
| 21:46.19 | calvarez | s/by/my/ |
| 21:46.38 | [phoenyx] | so, what if a course was "Learning a PHP MVC framework base on Ruby on Rails"? |
| 21:47.34 | calvarez | maybe they count it for both |
| 21:47.37 | calvarez | idk |
| 21:48.26 | levi | I'm sure their ranking algorithms have some flaws, but so do all the other ones. |
| 21:51.52 | calvarez | it's still interesting to see how Java is at the top of popularity |
| 21:52.19 | calvarez | and C and C++ trailing behind |
| 21:54.54 | calvarez | I've been frequently asked what language skills makes someone looking for entry-level developers/programmers more marketable |
| 21:55.25 | levi | Java skills are probably up there in the list. |
| 21:55.49 | Tene | Only if you're trying to market yourself to someone that wants people with java skills, though. |
| 21:56.04 | Tene | At my company, for example, java skills wouldn't matter much at all. |
| 21:56.53 | calvarez | I wonder how regionalized language/framework demand is |
| 21:57.30 | calvarez | like, in the 70s, the West coast was Berkeley Unix, while the East coast was AT&T unix |
| 21:57.41 | ^Migs^ | geez, one of my coworkers (not the new guy) has a bad habit of coming over to you and jabbering to you about how smart he is for an hour |
| 21:57.58 | calvarez | ^Migs^, argh, I can't stand that |
| 21:57.58 | ^Migs^ | meanwhile, you have tons of stuff to do and he's just wasting your time, mostly cuz he has nothing to do |
| 21:58.10 | calvarez | that's so low-sel-esteem-nerdy |
| 21:58.31 | ^Migs^ | I think he gets the hint that I don't like to talk, but he comes over and talks to new guy and new guy's a chatterbox too, so they just chatter it up for an hour or two. Waste. Of. Time. |
| 21:59.00 | ^Migs^ | I guses this other coworker fancy himself as some sort of history buff of...apparently everything. |
| 21:59.17 | ^Migs^ | s/fancy/fancies/ |
| 21:59.19 | calvarez | We are glad to announce that Ruby has become "Programming Language of the Year 2006". Ruby has the highest popularity increase in a year of all programming languages (+2.15%). Runner up this year is JavaScript with +1.31%. Both languages are boosted by their corresponding frameworks, Ruby On Rails and Ajax. This might be a new trend. In the recent past it was necessary to have a large company behind the language to get it in the spotlight (Sun with |
| 21:59.19 | calvarez | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:59.37 | ^Migs^ | nice |
| 21:59.45 | calvarez | Ruby is coming |
| 21:59.50 | ^Migs^ | Ruby has been pimped all over the place, that's for sure |
| 22:00.13 | ^Migs^ | I started getting into it, but haven't had much of a chance, unfortunately |
| 22:00.26 | sjansen | Ruby++ |
| 22:00.53 | ^Migs^ | Ruby# |
| 22:00.56 | ^Migs^ | Ruby.NET |
| 22:01.01 | nick125_lappy | mmm, its warm out today |
| 22:01.05 | ^Migs^ | Ruby#.NET++ |
| 22:01.25 | ^Migs^ | um, who announced Ruby "Programming Language of the Year 2006" anyway? |
| 22:01.32 | ^Migs^ | just some guy? |
| 22:01.43 | ^Migs^ | or two guys, hence the "we" |
| 22:02.12 | Tene | ~ruby-- |
| 22:02.15 | Tene | ~karma ruby |
| 22:02.15 | ibot | ruby has karma of -1 |
| 22:02.21 | Tene | ~karma perl |
| 22:02.21 | ibot | perl has karma of 1 |
| 22:02.24 | Tene | ~karma perl6 |
| 22:02.24 | ibot | perl6 has neutral karma |
| 22:02.29 | ^Migs^ | ~Tene-- |
| 22:02.32 | ^Migs^ | ~karma Tene |
| 22:02.32 | ibot | tene has karma of -11 |
| 22:02.41 | ^Migs^ | why doesn't it just show the karma after you karmize or dekarmize? |
| 22:04.34 | redbeard1 | ~Tene++ |
| 22:04.40 | redbeard1 | ~karma Tene |
| 22:04.40 | ibot | tene has karma of -10 |
| 22:05.00 | redbeard1 | (he helped me out with some slides a while back, you know) |
| 22:05.15 | ^Migs^ | and of course all this old loudmouth guy does is tell me "Hey, you look tired" |
| 22:05.39 | goozbach | ^Migs^: it could be a royal we |
| 22:06.18 | goozbach | I had a near miss today |
| 22:06.36 | goozbach | a guy followed me from another cube, to my cube chattering away |
| 22:06.58 | goozbach | I sat down, put in my earphones, turned up my ipod, and went back to work |
| 22:07.03 | ^Migs^ | oo |
| 22:07.07 | ^Migs^ | was he still yakking? |
| 22:07.19 | ^Migs^ | I had to do that with the new guy |
| 22:07.25 | goozbach | he stood there for like 5-10 seconds, then realized I was ignoring him |
| 22:07.40 | ^Migs^ | he wouldn't stop talking about something, can't remember what, don't really care, and I had my headphones positioned over my head, so he knew I could put them on at any second without warning |
| 22:07.43 | ^Migs^ | hahaha |
| 22:07.59 | goozbach | he kinda studdered to a stop, shruged and turned and left |
| 22:08.18 | ^Migs^ | nice |
| 22:08.24 | ^Migs^ | of course, now he probably thinks you're a big stinky jerk |
| 22:08.33 | ^Migs^ | and he'll go gossip |
| 22:17.37 | goozbach | I could care less |
| 22:19.41 | Tene | So why don't you care less? |
| 22:20.14 | [phoenyx] | doesn't care enough to make the effort, probably |
| 22:22.26 | goozbach | Tene: cause it's not nice |
| 22:22.42 | goozbach | I want to leave just a bit of space to be able to care less |
| 22:23.00 | goozbach | if I couldnt' care less, then I'd just ignore him alltoghether |
| 22:23.09 | goozbach | not just when he's borthering me |
| 22:23.12 | goozbach | gaa spelling |
| 22:23.16 | goozbach | time to goe home |
| 22:39.39 | *** join/#utah bonez39 (n=bonez@drjones.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 22:49.06 | ^Migs^ | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:52.29 | levi | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:14.30 | nick125_lappy | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:15.52 | nick125_lappy | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:16.50 | *** join/#utah drip (n=drip@67.96.135.254) |
| 23:20.00 | *** join/#utah Newsome (n=sorenson@adsl-75-0-136-70.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net) |
| 23:24.43 | tristanbob | I am using seahorse to import my keys from another system |
| 23:24.59 | tristanbob | however, the key went into Other Collected Keys instead of My Personal Keys |
| 23:25.14 | Tene | bonez39: ping |
| 23:25.28 | tristanbob | how do I make this key my personal key? |
| 23:27.45 | tristanbob | nm, I appear to have exported only the partial public key |
| 23:38.23 | tristanbob | does seahorse work well for others? it appears to always freeze when I close it |
| 23:39.44 | findlay | hey goozbach, guess what? Guess what I had for lunch goozbach and ^Migs^? |
| 23:43.12 | Tene | findlay: animal, vegetable, or mineral? |
| 23:44.30 | findlay | I am the very model of a modern major general |
| 23:45.04 | macnewbold | ~vegetable findlay |
| 23:47.41 | atoponce | ~seen maquis |
| 23:48.07 | ibot | maquis is currently on #ubuntu-utah #utah. Has said a total of 15 messages. Is idling for 1d 4h 35m 10s, last said: 'his shirt's not gray?'. |
| 23:51.39 | findlay | why does sjansen have to die all the time? |
| 23:52.06 | atoponce | Best ... death ... ever! |
| 23:52.10 | atoponce | that's why |
| 23:57.38 | goozbach | findlay: what did you have? |