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| 00:37.38 | *** topic/#utah is Channel for OSS discussion | See http://www.plug.org/node/28 | PHP workshop hosted by OALUG & UPHPU Jan 27 in Ogden- Watch http://groups.google.com/group/oalug for details | sküchums (goozbach) wants a Canadiana for Christmas |
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| 00:39.03 | Sargun | Oh crap. |
| 00:39.05 | findlay | ibot: you're back? |
| 00:39.07 | ibot | No findlay, I'm not really here |
| 00:39.12 | macnewbold | ~findlay Sargun |
| 00:39.13 | ibot | ACTION recreationally nmaps Sargun. |
| 00:39.20 | findlay | ibot: you're not really here? |
| 00:39.22 | ibot | no *you're* not really here |
| 00:39.27 | Sargun | Has anyone here watched A Scanner Darkly? |
| 00:39.36 | findlay | ibot: no, you are |
| 00:42.49 | findlay | Sargun: you can usually adjust the brightness with sane like: `scanimage --brightness=64` |
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| 00:45.50 | Lone_Wanderer | I just saw it the other night Sargun |
| 00:45.51 | Sargun | ~lart findlay |
| 00:45.59 | Lone_Wanderer | it's funny but seemed kind of pointless |
| 00:46.30 | Sargun | Lone_Wanderer, I've watched it to the part where Fred starts to see Freckles and The Tech as bugs |
| 00:46.33 | Sargun | Its really o.O |
| 00:46.46 | Sargun | Does it start to make more sense later? |
| 00:46.53 | Lone_Wanderer | No. |
| 00:47.00 | Lone_Wanderer | Well, kind of. |
| 00:47.11 | Lone_Wanderer | You get to see the girl topless. |
| 00:47.19 | Lone_Wanderer | If that's your thing. |
| 00:47.26 | findlay | ugh |
| 00:47.36 | Sargun | Don't you see in the beginning? |
| 00:47.45 | Lone_Wanderer | That's the waitress. |
| 00:48.15 | Sargun | ah. |
| 00:48.24 | Sargun | Its animated though |
| 00:48.24 | Sargun | this looks like that one episode of the animatrix. |
| 00:48.25 | Lone_Wanderer | Yes it is. |
| 00:48.31 | Sargun | where that the skater boy find neo |
| 00:48.45 | Sargun | its pretty o.O |
| 00:49.06 | Sargun | (the animatrix episode) |
| 00:49.11 | Sargun | Same animator? |
| 00:49.18 | Lone_Wanderer | I could boil this entire conference call down to one sentence. |
| 00:49.36 | Lone_Wanderer | "It's not there now, there's no technical reason we can't add it, but we don't have the manpower right now." |
| 00:49.51 | Sargun | haha |
| 00:49.54 | Lone_Wanderer | But they're all salespeople who love to hear themselves talk. |
| 00:49.57 | Sargun | Lone_Wanderer, What are you trying to add? |
| 00:50.00 | Lone_Wanderer | Going on 50 minutes now. |
| 00:50.13 | Lone_Wanderer | Just some data import and export stuff. |
| 00:50.28 | Lone_Wanderer | Nothing big, but there's no way I'm taking yet more time out of core development to add fluff. |
| 00:50.50 | Sargun | Ah. |
| 00:50.57 | Sargun | How many guys do you need? |
| 00:51.27 | Lone_Wanderer | Five would be about perfect. |
| 00:51.36 | Lone_Wanderer | Maybe four. |
| 00:53.53 | Sargun | Whats the application |
| 00:53.57 | Sargun | Like in/out of databases |
| 00:54.08 | Lone_Wanderer | it's a VoIP system |
| 00:54.20 | Lone_Wanderer | along with signup, billing, admin, provisioning |
| 00:54.42 | Lone_Wanderer | basically I've been tasked with the development of every piece of software that our business needs =\ |
| 00:54.51 | Sargun | So, like exporting/importing data out of your vendors |
| 00:54.55 | Sargun | Whats the name of the company? |
| 00:55.12 | Lone_Wanderer | yeah, that's what we're dealing with now. we've got a customer that wants to do MLM with our product I guess. |
| 00:55.30 | Lone_Wanderer | And so they want a slick way to get data in and out, and we don't have it. |
| 00:55.35 | Lone_Wanderer | IPTelesis. |
| 00:55.42 | Lone_Wanderer | We need a good Linux sysadmin full time, too. |
| 00:56.16 | Sargun | You know what would be really cheap, hiring a high schooler as an intern, and paying him high school wages for "professional" work? |
| 00:56.32 | Lone_Wanderer | That's not a bad idea. |
| 00:56.54 | Sargun | heh. |
| 00:56.58 | Lone_Wanderer | We've got some resumes, I'm going to recommend that we hire one of the guys on the cheap and another guy who's got a ton of experience as a core developer |
| 00:57.04 | Sargun | -raises hand- |
| 00:57.10 | Lone_Wanderer | but maybe I'll hit the high schools near here and see if we can't find someone |
| 00:57.17 | Sargun | Hehe |
| 00:57.18 | Lone_Wanderer | lol, are you in high school? |
| 00:57.23 | Sargun | Yeah |
| 00:57.26 | Sargun | You didn't know that? |
| 00:57.29 | Lone_Wanderer | nope |
| 00:57.33 | Lone_Wanderer | what language(s) do you know? |
| 00:57.41 | Lone_Wanderer | are you xboxmodder? |
| 00:57.43 | Sargun | Python. |
| 00:57.47 | Lone_Wanderer | cool |
| 00:57.49 | Lone_Wanderer | we're using PHP |
| 00:57.57 | Sargun | I'm more of a sysadmin |
| 00:58.34 | Sargun | I wrote a calling card system for my company. I maintain two servers for Atarack, and a bunch of VPSes on those systems. |
| 00:58.50 | Lone_Wanderer | How much Python do you know? |
| 00:59.35 | Lone_Wanderer | Send a resume to gene@iptelesis.com |
| 00:59.54 | Sargun | Quite a bit of Python. |
| 00:59.59 | Lone_Wanderer | cool |
| 01:00.18 | Lone_Wanderer | I'm doing some stuff in Django atm as a shortcut 'cause it's got such a quick, nice admin system |
| 01:00.24 | Sargun | Ah. |
| 01:00.36 | Lone_Wanderer | and if you already know Python, picking up PHP won't be hard |
| 01:01.22 | Lone_Wanderer | It'd almost be going backwards. |
| 01:01.54 | Sargun | Cool. |
| 01:02.19 | findlay | django is fun |
| 01:02.44 | Sargun | We tried to write Atarack.com in Django, but we decided to write in it Cherrypy |
| 01:02.56 | nick125 | mainly because Sargun hates django |
| 01:02.59 | Lone_Wanderer | what's cherrypy? |
| 01:02.59 | nick125 | and I hate cherrypy |
| 01:03.06 | nick125 | some crappy web framework |
| 01:03.38 | findlay | heh |
| 01:03.43 | findlay | there's always zope |
| 01:04.04 | findlay | Lone_Wanderer: where's your company at? |
| 01:04.10 | Lone_Wanderer | Salt Lake |
| 01:04.14 | Lone_Wanderer | 33rd south and 10th east |
| 01:04.16 | Lone_Wanderer | brb |
| 01:04.19 | nick125 | findlay: do you like pointy objects being flung at your head or blunt objects being flung at your head? |
| 01:04.23 | findlay | way up there |
| 01:04.47 | findlay | I pick the StrongBad option |
| 01:04.57 | nick125 | (Hey, least I give you an option!) |
| 01:05.00 | findlay | man, why won't gnash compile on my system? |
| 01:05.07 | findlay | I want strongbad |
| 01:05.20 | findlay | almost enough to reenable multilibs |
| 01:05.23 | findlay | almost |
| 01:09.20 | Sargun | Lone_Wanderer, Sure. |
| 01:13.57 | findlay | sure what? |
| 01:14.09 | findlay | sure thing? sure-ly? |
| 01:18.52 | Lone_Wanderer | ahh, conference call done with now |
| 01:37.07 | findlay | ~sure Sargun |
| 01:37.17 | Sargun | Lone_Wanderer, Cool. |
| 01:39.28 | nick125 | Sargun: ping |
| 01:39.33 | Sargun | PONG |
| 01:39.38 | nick125 | Sargun: #init |
| 01:52.41 | findlay | ibot: destruct |
| 01:54.39 | findlay | ibot: destruct |
| 01:54.41 | ibot | 5 ... 4 ... 3 ... 2 ... 1 ... 0 ... -1, etc. |
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| 05:21.47 | calvarez | h'llo |
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| 06:25.57 | findlay | cool. strongbad almost works with gnash |
| 06:26.26 | findlay | who cares what the flash spec is. As long as strongbad works that should be good enough for anyone |
| 06:26.37 | findlay | I think strongbad should be the spec |
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| 11:03.34 | Sargun | haha |
| 11:03.34 | Sargun | haha |
| 11:03.34 | Sargun | ibot is going crazy |
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| 14:44.13 | ^Migs^ | I hate how everyone gets lazy as Christmas approaches |
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| 15:06.54 | ^Migs^ | woot.com is selling PS3s |
| 15:07.16 | ^Migs^ | well, they were selling them |
| 15:09.10 | goozbach | heh |
| 15:30.27 | maquis | morning |
| 15:30.41 | maquis | last day! |
| 15:32.54 | goozbach | LAST DAY! |
| 15:32.57 | goozbach | of what? |
| 15:39.37 | ^Migs^ | the UNIVERSE? |
| 15:39.47 | jsmith | of maquis hanging out in IRC? |
| 15:39.52 | goozbach | bum bum bummmmm!!!! |
| 15:40.15 | maquis | last day til it's too late to fix things before christmas :) |
| 15:40.33 | jsmith | maquis: You underestimate the power of a geek with good intentions ;-) |
| 15:41.04 | maquis | jsmith: geeks with good intentions are the ones that cause the need to fix things |
| 15:41.37 | jsmith | Still beats a programmer with a soldering iron :-) |
| 15:42.06 | maquis | lol |
| 15:42.44 | jsmith | I'd much rather be a double-E with a compiler than a programmer with a soldering iron... |
| 15:43.09 | jsmith | What, doesn't everyone else give the gift of open-source code this time of year? |
| 15:43.40 | jsmith | You know... version 1.0 for Christmas, version 1.1 for Valentine's day... version 1.2 for Mother's Day, version 2.0 for the anniversary... |
| 15:44.03 | maquis | jsmith: lol |
| 15:44.24 | herlo | jsmith: I am sure the wife loves that |
| 15:44.52 | maquis | an EE with a compiler is much better than a programmer with a soldering iron... even if you're talking about the other EE... (they wouldn't have much luck getting anything to work, but they'd have a hard time breaking stuff) |
| 15:45.04 | jsmith | herlo: As a matter of fact, she does |
| 15:45.19 | herlo | jsmith: you must have a geek wife |
| 15:45.22 | herlo | :) |
| 15:45.28 | jsmith | herlo: Amen, brother! Yes I do... |
| 15:46.17 | maquis | jsmith: ~lart herlo |
| 15:46.37 | herlo | maquis: I didn't ask for anything too outrageous, be nice |
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| 15:49.21 | goozbach | I want a canaidan |
| 15:49.36 | goozbach | a sexy french canadian |
| 15:49.43 | goozbach | so I can blame her for stuff :P |
| 15:50.06 | herlo | goozbach: that works for me |
| 15:50.12 | herlo | as long as she's sexy |
| 15:53.43 | goozbach | "health nuts are goind to feel pretty stupid someday, lying in hospitals dying of nothing" -- redd fox |
| 15:53.55 | goozbach | s/goind/going/ |
| 15:53.59 | goozbach | drat |
| 15:54.06 | goozbach | spelling is my forte |
| 16:09.40 | goozbach | WEWT! I got a free book for christmas |
| 16:09.50 | goozbach | be happy at work everyone |
| 16:11.00 | ^Migs^ | what % of your pay does unemployment pay in the U.S.? |
| 16:11.13 | ^Migs^ | 50%? 60%? |
| 16:11.41 | goozbach | never been unemployed |
| 16:12.15 | goozbach | shouldn't have to worry about it for a while either |
| 16:12.42 | goozbach | my errors and ommisions insurance covers ~6months of my living expenses. |
| 16:13.08 | goozbach | which should be the only reason I would become unemployed |
| 16:25.29 | *** join/#utah calvarez (n=Hhhhh@r82h185.res.gatech.edu) |
| 16:27.11 | calvarez | hey |
| 16:28.01 | calvarez | question: my 12-yr-old sister may be interested in learning how to program. I installed some visual tools for making some animations and stuff, but probably I could install a real world language |
| 16:28.05 | calvarez | any suggestions? |
| 16:28.17 | calvarez | I was maybe thinking of python |
| 16:28.53 | calvarez | I would prefer something with RAD tools, so she could make GUIs |
| 16:29.53 | ^Migs^ | teach her Java |
| 16:30.07 | ^Migs^ | or PHP |
| 16:30.17 | calvarez | I've thought of that, but I am hesitant to introduce her to OOP-enforced languages at first |
| 16:30.34 | ^Migs^ | everyone should learn OOP |
| 16:30.39 | calvarez | and I don't want to tell her "just don't worry about that 'class' stuff for now..." |
| 16:30.50 | calvarez | I disagree ^Migs^, OOp is not for everyone |
| 16:31.03 | calvarez | now, I am a strong advocate of it, but some people have no use for it |
| 16:31.12 | calvarez | TAing CS142 at BYU made that very clear to me |
| 16:31.37 | calvarez | are there any decent RAD tools for Java? |
| 16:31.54 | findlay | that's a pretty smug opinion of on language feature |
| 16:32.09 | calvarez | findlay, who you replying to? |
| 16:32.14 | findlay | especially considering that computer languages have only been around for about 50 years |
| 16:32.18 | findlay | calvarez: ^Migs^ |
| 16:32.20 | ^Migs^ | how quaint. You TAed a class |
| 16:32.22 | calvarez | k |
| 16:32.33 | calvarez | ^Migs^, and developed professionally in Java |
| 16:32.35 | ^Migs^ | and at BYU of all places |
| 16:32.51 | ^Migs^ | that would've made your point stronger, if you had mentioned that in the first place |
| 16:32.54 | calvarez | oh, ok, you're a troll. Nevermind |
| 16:33.03 | calvarez | anyone else? |
| 16:33.03 | ^Migs^ | ~google troll |
| 16:33.11 | findlay | calvarez: maybe you can try squeak |
| 16:33.27 | calvarez | findlay, is that a Java |
| 16:33.30 | calvarez | RAD tool? |
| 16:33.43 | calvarez | oh |
| 16:33.49 | findlay | calvarez: no, it's smalltalk, and it's hyper-rad |
| 16:33.50 | calvarez | I'd prefer a widely used language |
| 16:34.18 | calvarez | I'm sure it's cool, but I definetely don't want her to try languages with a small user base |
| 16:34.31 | findlay | what difference does that make? |
| 16:34.40 | goozbach | logo |
| 16:34.42 | calvarez | it does, in terms of support and help she can get |
| 16:34.43 | goozbach | or qbasic |
| 16:34.45 | calvarez | she ain't a programmer |
| 16:34.51 | goozbach | :) |
| 16:35.31 | findlay | if she's interested in learning who cares, you're just feeding here the language de jour because that's what everybody knows |
| 16:35.35 | maquis | calvarez: is she interested in becoming a programmer? |
| 16:35.43 | calvarez | maquis, not at this point |
| 16:35.47 | maquis | or does she just want to be able to do something cool temporarily on the computer |
| 16:35.49 | calvarez | maquis, just trying it out |
| 16:35.56 | calvarez | yea, more like that for now |
| 16:36.08 | maquis | calvarez: ok... because that actually affects the languages she should try :) |
| 16:36.13 | calvarez | findlay, yes, I'm just trying to teach her a language |
| 16:36.18 | maquis | does she know html? |
| 16:36.22 | findlay | and calvarez thinks only 'popular' languages are good enough |
| 16:36.24 | calvarez | maquis, no |
| 16:36.31 | calvarez | findlay, you gonna troll too? |
| 16:36.36 | calvarez | findlay, I never said that |
| 16:36.38 | findlay | (-: |
| 16:37.19 | calvarez | and, to be honest, being a 1337 programmer in an obscure language ain't useful |
| 16:37.20 | maquis | calvarez: i'd say start her out with learning html and making some websites... and move into some more dynamic sites with php and possibly a sql back-end... if you can provide her with a server, she'd have something really cool to show her friends, and could have a lot of fun |
| 16:37.30 | findlay | calvarez: I'm just trying to say that in teaching programming there may be better choices based on the languages merits rather than the languages popularity |
| 16:37.38 | calvarez | findlay, I disagree |
| 16:37.51 | findlay | ok, now you're trolling |
| 16:38.19 | calvarez | findlay, I think teaching programming is pretty independent of the language, so you might as well pick a few languages that meet a general criteria and then pick the most commonly used one |
| 16:38.23 | calvarez | nah I'm not |
| 16:38.27 | maquis | also... i hate to say this, but... if she really just wants to play around, VB is quick to pick-up and easy to make guis for... |
| 16:38.41 | findlay | calvarez: squeak has lots of attractive features for a brand new programmer, but you're too closed minded to consider it because it's not in your canon |
| 16:38.49 | calvarez | maquis, I don't know if she would like web programming, I was thinking of helping her make some guis and stuff |
| 16:38.55 | calvarez | findlay, exactly |
| 16:39.10 | findlay | ok, so you're just closed-minded, that's all |
| 16:39.20 | maquis | if she ends up deciding she wants to go into programming more, though, get he off of VB as quickly as possible |
| 16:39.21 | findlay | great way to go about learning |
| 16:39.32 | calvarez | maquis, I'm hesitant to teach her VB, I was maybe thinking of python and install wxPython and wxGlade |
| 16:39.52 | calvarez | or maybe Visual C# Express |
| 16:40.04 | maquis | calvarez: i've never played with wxpython or wxglade... python might be good for someone starting out, though... i'm not sure... python and i didn't get along exceptionally well :) |
| 16:40.27 | calvarez | I've been doing a few python tutorials, and it's pretty nice |
| 16:40.30 | maquis | visual c# would probably work ok... |
| 16:40.53 | maquis | visual studio is not bad for someone just playing around to see what's possible... |
| 16:41.01 | findlay | calvarez: do you think all languages being principally the same is the way it should be? |
| 16:41.40 | findlay | because there's no science in that |
| 16:42.03 | calvarez | findlay, spending time learning a language only a couple of 1337ers in Finland and one dude in Honolulu use just because the language is cool but there is absolutely no commercial use or community behind it is a waste of time |
| 16:42.04 | maquis | calvarez: java might also be a nice option... personally, i don't think it's the best for starting out, but it's probably not the worst, either |
| 16:42.09 | findlay | and it's not true anyway |
| 16:42.24 | findlay | calvarez: now you're definitely trolling |
| 16:42.33 | calvarez | findlay, heaven forbid |
| 16:42.35 | findlay | and you don't get the point |
| 16:42.41 | calvarez | you don't either |
| 16:42.50 | findlay | I'm not going to argue with your closed minded attitude |
| 16:42.55 | maquis | calvarez: if she's not planning ontrying to use it commercially, and is just learning it for fun, then your point doesn't stand, actually |
| 16:42.58 | calvarez | no go program in this dialect of a dialect of a dialect of W# |
| 16:43.23 | calvarez | maquis, I've found that languages with commercial use tend to have more support and a bigger community |
| 16:43.30 | calvarez | and the community is what matters |
| 16:43.31 | maquis | it's no more of a waste of time than learning c# or java would be... |
| 16:43.44 | calvarez | nah, C# and Java there is plenty of work and/or reference materials |
| 16:43.54 | maquis | calvarez: size or quality of the community? |
| 16:44.18 | calvarez | as opposed to some P2 server in some dude's garage where all the existing documentation in the world is |
| 16:44.27 | goozbach | bah teach her BF |
| 16:44.31 | maquis | i would posit that there are some languages with very large communities, where the quality of the community isn't that great... |
| 16:44.43 | calvarez | maquis, I think size will allow enough variety to run into better quality |
| 16:44.51 | calvarez | now, the reverse is not necessarily true |
| 16:44.58 | maquis | calvarez: perhaps... |
| 16:45.15 | calvarez | but I tend to think you can find better tutorials for Java or C# than for the dialect of the dialect of the dialect of W# |
| 16:45.26 | maquis | i've just found that, generally, with a really large community, where the majority is not high-quality, you end up having more problems than if you went for a smaller community with higher quality |
| 16:45.39 | calvarez | hmm, I've found the opposite, but that's ok |
| 16:45.51 | maquis | perhaps we're looking for different things :) |
| 16:45.57 | calvarez | maybe |
| 16:46.20 | calvarez | the thing is, in a large community is still easy to get to the good material and skip the filler low quality material |
| 16:46.41 | maquis | calvarez: true... if you know the difference between the good material and the filler |
| 16:46.43 | *** join/#utah TimRiker (n=timr@216.49.181.128) |
| 16:46.43 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 16:46.58 | calvarez | so, it is reasonable to expect that the diversity due to a large user base would bring you betetr quality as well |
| 16:47.17 | calvarez | maquis, at least in the communities I chip in, it does |
| 16:47.22 | maquis | calvarez: perhaps... |
| 16:47.35 | calvarez | instead of googling for tutorials, I drop by the IRC channel and ask for some good sources, people usually know them |
| 16:47.45 | calvarez | the "classics" |
| 16:48.13 | maquis | i'm just thinking... as much as i dislike scheme, my bets are that if you were to put all the scheme documentation, resources, irc help, etc, in one bucket, and all the vb documentation, irc-help, etc in another bucket |
| 16:48.13 | calvarez | if you drop by #opengl, you will be recommended some good books (especially the red book) and the NeHe tutorials at Gamedev.net |
| 16:48.44 | calvarez | and those are about the best sources to learn OpenGL |
| 16:48.55 | maquis | then reach into each bucket and pull out one random item, i'm guessing that the one you pulled out of the scheme bucket would likely be better than the one from the vb bucket |
| 16:49.02 | calvarez | probably |
| 16:49.17 | calvarez | I won't deny that you can find some good info from a small user base sometimes |
| 16:49.23 | calvarez | it entirely depends on the community |
| 16:49.41 | calvarez | still, I think size can correlate with the existence of good quality material |
| 16:49.44 | maquis | because the majority of people that use scheme tend to (in broad generalization) have a more advanced understanding than the average general person who uses vb |
| 16:49.45 | calvarez | anyways |
| 16:49.57 | calvarez | findlay, I didn't mean to offend you when you suggested squeak |
| 16:50.38 | calvarez | it's just not the kind of stuff I had in mind, but I meant no offense. |
| 16:50.38 | calvarez | thanks for the suggestion though |
| 16:50.38 | maquis | (i've used vb (unfortunately), which is why i feel somewhat justified in bashing on it) |
| 16:51.00 | calvarez | hehe, me too |
| 16:51.10 | calvarez | I tend to like python |
| 16:51.16 | maquis | calvarez: here's an idea... |
| 16:51.19 | calvarez | the minimalist approach is good and less confusing |
| 16:51.25 | calvarez | than excess of syntax sugar |
| 16:51.42 | calvarez | also, there are good packages for python |
| 16:51.57 | calvarez | and python is a child of ABC, a language that was meant for teaching programming to children :) |
| 16:52.00 | maquis | come up with a list of possibilities... write up some *really* simple explanations of the pros/cons of each (ie, "this one's easy, but not as powerful", "this one can do a lot, but doesn't let you do graphical stuff", etc... |
| 16:52.19 | maquis | then go through the list with your sister, and find out what things interest her |
| 16:53.25 | maquis | maybe give her some ideas of what a good "starting" project would be (and what it would look like) in each language |
| 16:54.02 | maquis | so, for example, in c#, you'd get a totally different starting project than you'd get in perl or python or something... see what she's actually interested in |
| 16:54.49 | maquis | i'd honestly say that she should be as involved in the decision of the language as she can be, understanding that she won't fully understand what's going on |
| 16:55.29 | maquis | you could even try putting together a quick "hello world" example in a couple of languages that you think might interest her, and show her both the code and the results, so that she can decide which one makes the most sense to her... |
| 16:56.24 | Tene | http://pleac.sourceforge.net/ |
| 16:56.25 | calvarez | hmm, pygame... |
| 16:59.07 | ^Migs^ | she should learn assembler |
| 16:59.54 | maquis | did hypercard cease to exist? |
| 17:01.19 | macnewbold | ~w00t hypercard |
| 17:01.26 | ibot | stfu, hypercard |
| 17:03.59 | maquis | i used to spend a lot of time with hypercard when i was little |
| 17:05.10 | maquis | wow... it hasn't been updated since 98... which means i have the most recent version of hypercard at home (on floppy disks!) |
| 17:08.47 | calvarez | this is pretty good stuff |
| 17:08.57 | calvarez | pygame is SDL for python |
| 17:09.57 | calvarez | I did |
| 17:09.57 | maquis | ok.. |
| 17:09.57 | maquis | just checking |
| 17:09.57 | calvarez | the thing is, I am learning python myself |
| 17:09.58 | calvarez | we use it here at work for Blender export scripts |
| 17:10.08 | calvarez | and I myself have been looking for a good prototyping language |
| 17:10.33 | Tene | Perl6! |
| 17:10.38 | maquis | agreed |
| 17:10.47 | maquis | perl6 looks really interesting |
| 17:11.53 | calvarez | also, I wanted a good language for server scripting, and I am not too excited about PHP |
| 17:12.02 | calvarez | and I'm done with ASP.NET and J2EE |
| 17:12.23 | calvarez | I want something lighter, versatile and not PHP (nothing wrong with it btw, no flame intended) |
| 17:12.36 | calvarez | that also has good GUI toolkits available |
| 17:13.00 | calvarez | anyways, this is different than what I was talking about for my sister |
| 17:13.09 | Tene | perl, of course. |
| 17:13.11 | *** join/#utah herlo (n=herlo@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com) |
| 17:13.18 | synic | python, of couse. |
| 17:13.24 | synic | er... course |
| 17:13.26 | synic | bah |
| 17:14.00 | Tene | perl reduces typos, as you can see. |
| 17:14.09 | synic | :P |
| 17:14.21 | maquis | lol |
| 17:14.23 | synic | note: I do perl for a living. I'm at my office. |
| 17:14.29 | synic | it's perl's fault |
| 17:14.47 | calvarez | perl looks too cryptic |
| 17:15.02 | Tene | ~order maquis |
| 17:15.05 | calvarez | it just looks...unclean |
| 17:15.31 | synic | uh oh. |
| 17:16.11 | maquis | synic: i don't think there's a war around |
| 17:16.33 | calvarez | maquis, lol |
| 17:16.45 | Tene | And every large project should involve at least (number of developers)/3+1 languages. |
| 17:17.03 | maquis | Tene: isn't that what perl6 is doing? |
| 17:17.32 | Tene | No. |
| 17:17.36 | Tene | Parrot is. |
| 17:17.49 | Tene | If I understand your question right, which I don't think I do. |
| 17:18.22 | maquis | perl6 is written in a ton of languages... at least that's what i understood from what audrey tang was saying (although something might've been lost in translation) |
| 17:18.37 | Tene | Ahh. |
| 17:19.16 | Tene | Yeah, something like that. |
| 17:19.54 | maquis | :) |
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| 17:21.07 | SB1-Laptop | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:21.47 | Tene | And in case of Dragon? |
| 17:22.10 | SB1-Laptop | Good question |
| 17:22.35 | wps | anything wrong with the mailing list? |
| 17:22.45 | wps | has anyone received any mail from the list this morning? |
| 17:23.15 | Tene | I haven't received mail from dragons this morning. |
| 17:23.24 | wps | dragons? |
| 17:23.30 | Tene | Yeah. |
| 17:24.05 | Tene | No mail from dragons. |
| 17:24.25 | goozbach | dragonmail! |
| 17:24.31 | Tene | Did get mail from PLUG this morning. |
| 17:24.47 | Tene | Subject: Doba seeks Software UI Developer Level 2/3 |
| 17:24.48 | Tene | Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2006 09:32:42 -0700 |
| 17:25.04 | Tene | And another copy at 9:34 |
| 17:27.15 | wps | ah… I wonder why I didn't get a copy |
| 17:27.23 | jsmith | wps: Gee, I wonder why :-) |
| 17:27.32 | wps | Tene: the two posts are two different positions |
| 17:27.51 | Tene | Yeah, I figured that out when I looked closer. |
| 17:28.01 | Tene | Neither of them are from a Dragon, though. |
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| 17:38.36 | *** part/#utah lars-ut-away (n=lars-ut@c-24-2-76-94.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 17:38.45 | goozbach | away I suppose |
| 17:39.07 | *** join/#utah lars-ut (n=lars-ut@c-24-2-76-94.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 17:39.13 | goozbach | hah! |
| 17:39.14 | lars-ut | ibot: it's here! |
| 17:39.33 | herlo | http://www.digg.com/software/Software_for_Starving_Students_2007_01_Released |
| 17:39.55 | goozbach | ohh herlo stole lars-ut's thunder |
| 17:39.58 | goozbach | sad! |
| 17:40.01 | herlo | goozbach: nice! |
| 17:40.12 | herlo | I didn't even know, I was already waiting for it |
| 17:41.14 | *** part/#utah lars-ut (n=lars-ut@c-24-2-76-94.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 17:41.22 | *** join/#utah lars-ut (n=lars-ut@c-24-2-76-94.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 17:41.45 | herlo | lars-ut: ~onjoin #utah -lars-ut |
| 17:42.26 | lars-ut | ~onjoin #utah lars-ut Software for Starving Students 2007.01 Released! (http://softwarefor.org) |
| 17:42.26 | ibot | ok, lars-ut |
| 17:42.44 | *** part/#utah lars-ut (n=lars-ut@c-24-2-76-94.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 17:42.49 | *** join/#utah lars-ut (n=lars-ut@c-24-2-76-94.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 17:42.56 | jsmith | lars-ut! |
| 17:42.59 | lars-ut | ibot: that's better |
| 17:44.23 | lars-ut | 14 diggs so far |
| 17:47.16 | lars-ut | jsmith: thanks for the comment |
| 17:48.42 | goozbach | go software4! |
| 17:48.48 | maquis | lars-ut: the 2007 release is out? that rocks |
| 17:48.51 | maquis | you guys are early! |
| 17:48.56 | lars-ut | lol |
| 17:49.00 | goozbach | maquis: not by much |
| 17:49.45 | maquis | goozbach: true... but if m$ was putting out the 2007 release, we'd be lucky to have it by 2009 |
| 17:49.45 | bonez39 | are any of you using BroadVoice VOIP? just curious....about their service..... |
| 17:53.07 | *** join/#utah fungus (n=fungus@2001:470:1f00:645:250:8dff:fe71:9a6b) |
| 17:55.59 | findlay | bonez39: not fun |
| 17:56.18 | findlay | worst service evar |
| 17:59.39 | fungus | You should add a small digg link on the front page of softwarefor.org |
| 18:04.01 | findlay | where's a good css tutorial? |
| 18:05.07 | goozbach | findlay: google for meyer |
| 18:05.34 | goozbach | http://meyerweb.com/eric/css/edge/ |
| 18:05.46 | atoponce | w3schools |
| 18:05.48 | goozbach | not a "tutuorial" per-se |
| 18:06.03 | goozbach | but he's the author of "CSS the Definitave Guide" |
| 18:06.09 | findlay | oooh |
| 18:06.22 | findlay | nice site |
| 18:06.23 | atoponce | good book: the zen of css design |
| 18:06.23 | goozbach | and the demos he's got on his site are very inspiring and educational |
| 18:06.38 | goozbach | css zen garden is another good site |
| 18:06.56 | goozbach | I learn more by copying than I did any other way |
| 18:07.04 | atoponce | definitely |
| 18:07.14 | findlay | mee too |
| 18:07.34 | findlay | s/e//g |
| 18:07.47 | maquis | lol |
| 18:08.24 | goozbach | that's a correct substituion |
| 18:08.35 | goozbach | careful with your regexes |
| 18:08.38 | goozbach | :) |
| 18:09.19 | findlay | s/e/ee/g |
| 18:09.39 | findlay | that is an excellent demonstration on how 2 + 2 = 4; |
| 18:09.45 | maquis | mee too |
| 18:09.50 | maquis | s/e// |
| 18:10.04 | findlay | me to |
| 18:10.15 | maquis | to me! |
| 18:10.21 | goozbach | TO ME! |
| 18:10.33 | findlay | I find confidince in sunshine |
| 18:10.39 | goozbach | Feydakyn TO ME! |
| 18:10.51 | maquis | ~lart findlay's confidince |
| 18:11.01 | goozbach | pray we win through to the door |
| 18:11.17 | findlay | besides which you see I have con...fi...dince in meeeeeeee! |
| 18:19.51 | ^Migs^ | wtf, everyone's playing games here now |
| 18:19.56 | calvarez | hmm, I think I'm just gonna go for python |
| 18:19.56 | ^Migs^ | lazy bums |
| 18:20.01 | calvarez | for both my sister and I |
| 18:20.09 | ^Migs^ | they're all logged into some multiplayer game |
| 18:23.22 | maquis | ^Migs^: some companies like to do that on occasion... it's a good way of teambuilding (much better than paying for one of those overpriced guys to come and tell you to get along) |
| 18:23.22 | ^Migs^ | well, there's work to be done |
| 18:23.22 | ^Migs^ | after office hours, sure, that'd be great |
| 18:23.22 | ^Migs^ | but not while we all need to be working |
| 18:23.22 | ^Migs^ | maybe I should let the boss know about this |
| 18:23.22 | ^Migs^ | people get way, way too lazy around Christmastime |
| 18:23.23 | maquis | ^Migs^: you need to find an office where everybody works harder around christmastime |
| 18:23.23 | ^Migs^ | if I was in charge of everyone, they'd all be fired right now |
| 18:23.23 | findlay | maquis: good idea |
| 18:23.23 | ^Migs^ | this is ridiculous |
| 18:23.44 | maquis | ^Migs^: the only thing is... do you expect everybody on your team to actually show up to work (or to start at a reasonable hour)? |
| 18:23.44 | ^Migs^ | and of course, it was the new guy who sent the link around. He's being a bad influence. |
| 18:23.59 | findlay | heh |
| 18:24.08 | ^Migs^ | Yes, I do |
| 18:24.19 | maquis | ^Migs^: then you still wouldn't be happy here |
| 18:24.20 | ^Migs^ | most importantly, though, when there's work to be done, they need to do it |
| 18:24.24 | ^Migs^ | New guy has a TON of things he has to do |
| 18:24.33 | findlay | ^Migs^: it's just the comicality of your metaphorical way of speaking about it |
| 18:24.43 | ^Migs^ | and he's been neglecting them for a long time, despite the fact I keep harping on him about it |
| 18:25.14 | maquis | ^Migs^: have you ever gotten a lecture about working too hard? |
| 18:25.48 | ^Migs^ | it's only because I work hard that we're able to meet deadlines |
| 18:25.50 | goozbach | migs needs to read the happy at work book |
| 18:26.04 | ^Migs^ | I am happy, and I'm happy when other people work hard |
| 18:26.13 | ^Migs^ | I don't like having to carry the weight of others' jobs |
| 18:26.14 | *** join/#utah bonez39 (n=bonez@drjones.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 18:26.57 | maquis | ^Migs^: honestly, if you could get over the formal "time to work" vs "time to play" issue, you'd probably like working someplace like where i am |
| 18:27.00 | ^Migs^ | why tf wasn't I even invited to play the game? |
| 18:27.11 | maquis | ^Migs^: because they knew you wouldn't approve? |
| 18:27.28 | maquis | because they think you're a party-pooper who would get mad at them for playing |
| 18:27.39 | *** join/#utah TimRiker (n=timr@216.49.181.128) |
| 18:27.39 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 18:31.32 | *** join/#utah fozzmoo (n=fozz@65.89.234.66) |
| 18:31.37 | fozzmoo | ~seen goozbach |
| 18:32.48 | ibot | goozbach is currently on #utah (7h 30m 26s). Has said a total of 42 messages. Is idling for 6m 58s, last said: 'migs needs to read the happy at work book'. |
| 18:32.50 | findlay | ^Migs^: you need to get him a harp for Christmas so he can harp on it too |
| 18:33.12 | findlay | ~seen me |
| 18:33.21 | ibot | me <n=Me@byrt-4db4357a.pool.einsundeins.de> was last seen on IRC in channel #norganna, 3d 7h 46m 45s ago, saying: 'thanks guys, gotta go test all these mods'. |
| 18:33.33 | findlay | ~seen findlay |
| 18:33.36 | ibot | findlay is currently on #bzflag (17h 56m 59s) #asterisk (17h 56m 59s) #utah (17h 56m 59s). Has said a total of 64 messages. Is idling for 3s, last said: '~seen findlay '. |
| 18:34.13 | findlay | didn't know ibot was in #asterisk |
| 18:37.23 | goozbach | fozzmoo: pong |
| 18:37.38 | findlay | lars-ut: the css zengarden site is awesome! |
| 18:37.47 | goozbach | findlay: you're welcome |
| 18:37.51 | goozbach | :) |
| 18:37.59 | findlay | goozbach is awesome too |
| 18:39.27 | findlay | imagine all these years that my finer web style instincts have been brutally beaten and broken by blocky, foul, markup spew |
| 18:39.31 | fozzmoo | findlay: What's that on your nose? |
| 18:39.36 | fozzmoo | Oh, never mind. :) |
| 18:39.42 | findlay | where |
| 18:41.14 | calvarez | ^Migs^, I actually got asked to come to work and play Halo instead of working, and got paid for it |
| 18:41.16 | findlay | and here is a site that is a compelling reassurance and affirmation that there can be beauty in the www |
| 18:41.17 | calvarez | my boss did |
| 18:41.34 | calvarez | he specifically said "just be there, and play Halo" |
| 18:41.53 | calvarez | I loved working there |
| 18:51.13 | emcnabb | http://youtube.com/watch?v=Pi77koTk8mc |
| 18:51.38 | findlay | ~halo calvarez |
| 18:51.40 | ibot | ACTION turns calvarez into an angel |
| 18:51.53 | calvarez | thank you |
| 18:52.00 | findlay | mention it |
| 18:52.09 | findlay | I mean .. whatever |
| 18:54.12 | findlay | konqueror has some fun keybindings |
| 18:57.22 | *** part/#utah ^Migs^ (n=Migs@205.122.50.21) |
| 18:59.17 | findlay | guess ^Migs^ has work to do |
| 19:00.22 | goozbach | I was going to say |
| 19:00.35 | *** join/#utah herlo (n=herlo@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com) |
| 19:00.37 | goozbach | one of the biggest work breakers for me is IRC |
| 19:00.42 | goozbach | I mean hi herlo |
| 19:00.58 | herlo | goozbach: hi |
| 19:01.04 | goozbach | :) |
| 19:10.34 | wps | thanks for that link, emcnabb |
| 19:11.45 | emcnabb | I thought it was funny |
| 19:14.48 | fungus | wow, This is a first... I actually agree with Hannity for once. |
| 19:15.26 | *** join/#utah vontrapp (n=von@ip68-111-95-170.oc.oc.cox.net) |
| 19:15.27 | findlay | heh |
| 19:16.00 | vontrapp | it's a cool breezy day in palos verdes |
| 19:16.10 | maquis | ~atoponce yd. Ekrpat co lprxaxnf jrmcbi anrbi bcj.nfv |
| 19:17.13 | vontrapp | maquis: is that supposed to translate it? |
| 19:18.00 | findlay | atoponce has some irssi script he wrote. We just need to get ibot to do it |
| 19:18.40 | vontrapp | ibot: run atopence's irssi script |
| 19:19.33 | findlay | he's thinking about it |
| 19:22.15 | maquis | vontrapp: no... just trying to tell atoponce that we want him to translate it :) |
| 19:22.37 | fungus | ~rot13 yd. Ekrpat co lprxaxnf jrmcbi anrbi bcj.nfv |
| 19:22.37 | ibot | lq. Rxecng pb yceknkas wezpov naeov opw.asi |
| 19:24.01 | findlay | ~rot1234567890 rot1234567890 |
| 19:24.01 | ibot | byd1234567890 |
| 19:24.29 | vontrapp | kjd H.soav g; rosnanpt ismgly apsly lgidpte |
| 19:25.07 | findlay | evpq4thg24987bw.gkjadsf b07 q4444444tgopiu qwgfrrwfb |
| 19:26.44 | calvarez | YAY! 4.0 GPA after my first semester of grad school :) |
| 19:26.54 | calvarez | I still don't quite understand how |
| 19:26.56 | calvarez | lol |
| 19:26.58 | vontrapp | w00t |
| 19:27.10 | findlay | nice |
| 19:27.19 | Tene | Impressive. |
| 19:27.28 | findlay | been taking easy classes? (-: |
| 19:27.45 | calvarez | well, one of them was not easy at all |
| 19:27.48 | calvarez | computer animation |
| 19:27.57 | calvarez | lots of math |
| 19:28.08 | calvarez | and some 3D modeling as well (little bit) |
| 19:28.26 | calvarez | everybody was supposed to use Maya, but, of course, I asked to use Blender |
| 19:28.31 | calvarez | FOSS baby :) |
| 19:28.42 | calvarez | I love Blender now, I like it better than Maya |
| 19:28.44 | findlay | and they let you? |
| 19:28.48 | calvarez | yea |
| 19:28.58 | findlay | sweet |
| 19:29.06 | findlay | blender si fun |
| 19:29.08 | calvarez | also, I needed to learn Blender for my research |
| 19:29.10 | calvarez | yea, it is |
| 19:29.14 | findlay | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:29.29 | calvarez | so, now I want to learn Python to extend the export plugins we have |
| 19:29.31 | calvarez | lol a cube |
| 19:29.35 | findlay | maybe a sphere too, but that might still be too advanced for me |
| 19:29.56 | findlay | you don't know python yet? |
| 19:30.01 | maquis | i tried to make something in blender... then i gave up |
| 19:30.02 | calvarez | no, I'm doing tutorials |
| 19:30.04 | findlay | python's a fun language |
| 19:30.19 | calvarez | I intend to teach my little sister as well |
| 19:30.23 | fungus | lol, new ELER |
| 19:30.26 | fungus | http://geekz.co.uk/lovesraymond/archive/novellty-linux |
| 19:30.38 | findlay | ugh |
| 19:30.51 | findlay | I can understand misspellings here and there, but in a URL? |
| 19:31.09 | findlay | unless it's a pun |
| 19:31.10 | [Utah]tristanbob | anyone here use Plaxo to manage their addressbook? http://www.plaxo.com/ |
| 19:31.12 | fungus | it's not misspelled, it's a pun |
| 19:31.16 | findlay | heh |
| 19:31.19 | fungus | Novell-ty |
| 19:31.25 | calvarez | lol |
| 19:31.39 | findlay | that's what novell gets I guess for choosing a punny name |
| 19:33.07 | calvarez | has anybody tried OpenSUSE 10.2 yet? |
| 19:33.38 | fungus | I did, for about 5 minutes |
| 19:34.23 | fungus | Cool, stuff, but still not my fav. |
| 19:34.31 | calvarez | I have to say, I used to love SUSE until 10.1 |
| 19:34.42 | findlay | why not? |
| 19:34.51 | calvarez | 10.0 was one of the sweetest distros I've ever tried |
| 19:35.01 | calvarez | 10.1 was freakin' broken |
| 19:35.11 | fungus | BSD is more my thing. |
| 19:35.19 | calvarez | I switched to Kubuntu Dapper |
| 19:35.26 | calvarez | and now I'm in Windows only |
| 19:35.35 | calvarez | I need to set this box for a server though |
| 19:37.40 | calvarez | man, I still can't believe the instructor gave me an A |
| 19:37.56 | calvarez | I thought I was gonna be on the verge between B and C lol |
| 19:38.01 | fungus | did you deserve the A? |
| 19:38.08 | calvarez | I dunno |
| 19:38.15 | calvarez | the scale was extremely subjective |
| 19:38.18 | fungus | Do you feel that you deserved the A? |
| 19:38.20 | calvarez | no |
| 19:38.29 | calvarez | but that doesn't bother me :) |
| 19:38.30 | fungus | lol |
| 19:38.45 | calvarez | what matters is the transcript baby |
| 19:38.52 | calvarez | well, in grad school it doesn't, really |
| 19:38.54 | fungus | congrats then on getting an A in schmoozing |
| 19:39.14 | maquis | sweet.. team lunch today... |
| 19:39.28 | goozbach | TimRiker: how's about getting ibot to join us in #s4? |
| 19:39.39 | calvarez | that reminds me, if I hadn't failed my last class at BYU (an E), I would have graduated with stochastic honors, meh |
| 19:40.27 | maquis | calvarez: i assume that the class wasn't required for graduation? |
| 19:40.43 | calvarez | it was lol I had to take an independent study class in like a week |
| 19:40.50 | calvarez | so I could graduate |
| 19:40.51 | calvarez | rofl |
| 19:40.54 | maquis | lol |
| 19:40.58 | maquis | what class? |
| 19:41.04 | calvarez | the worst part is...it was Phscs 123 |
| 19:41.12 | calvarez | a freshman clas |
| 19:41.16 | calvarez | class* |
| 19:41.36 | maquis | phsycial sicence? |
| 19:41.47 | calvarez | so I had to take a physics class independenty study (not the same one, so the E is still in my transcript) |
| 19:41.52 | maquis | ~spellchekc maquis |
| 19:41.59 | calvarez | physics and astronomy |
| 19:42.14 | maquis | calvarez: is that for the physical science requirement? |
| 19:42.28 | calvarez | yea, I think so |
| 19:42.31 | maquis | ah |
| 19:42.31 | calvarez | or Natural Sciences |
| 19:42.38 | calvarez | I was on the old GE reqs |
| 19:42.45 | maquis | how'd you fail astronomy? |
| 19:42.52 | calvarez | no, I failed 123 |
| 19:43.02 | calvarez | then I took astronomy so I would fulfill the GE |
| 19:43.08 | maquis | oh... |
| 19:43.12 | maquis | what's physics 123? |
| 19:43.18 | calvarez | 123 was optics, pressure, waves, etc |
| 19:43.22 | maquis | oh... |
| 19:43.37 | maquis | wait... isn't that the thing that comes after 121 that cs majors don't have to take? |
| 19:43.42 | calvarez | I love math, and I'm very good at it. But Physics is my Achilles' heel |
| 19:43.49 | calvarez | I just can't |
| 19:44.08 | maquis | i suck at physics, but i can do astronomy (even when it gets to the physics side of things) |
| 19:44.16 | calvarez | yea astronomy is cake |
| 19:44.26 | maquis | ~seen jakea |
| 19:44.48 | ibot | jakea <n=jakea@128.187.140.149> was last seen on IRC in channel #utah, 52d 3h 12m 54s ago, saying: 'oh ya, IRC costume'. |
| 19:44.49 | calvarez | k, I better go renew my driver's license |
| 19:45.06 | calvarez | bbl |
| 19:45.19 | maquis | when i took astronomy in high school, the teacher tried to get me to teach the class |
| 19:48.53 | macnewbold | nice |
| 19:49.26 | maquis | macnewbold: yeah... it was pretty sweet |
| 19:49.31 | maquis | i wasn't at all worried about that grade :) |
| 19:49.33 | *** join/#utah tristanbob (i=tristanb@oalug/member/tristanbob) |
| 19:54.22 | atoponce | 'yd. Ekrpat co lprxaxnf jrmcbi anrbi bcj.nfv ' to dvorak: fev >tplay jr nlpqaqbu hpmjxc abpxc xjhvbuk |
| 19:54.28 | atoponce | vontrapp: --^ |
| 20:04.34 | *** join/#utah ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) |
| 20:04.34 | *** topic/#utah is Channel for OSS discussion | See http://www.plug.org/node/28 | PHP workshop hosted by OALUG & UPHPU Jan 27 in Ogden- Watch http://groups.google.com/group/oalug for details | sküchums (goozbach) wants a Canadiana for Christmas |
| 20:04.34 | *** mode/#utah [+o ibot] by ChanServ |
| 20:05.11 | goozbach | findlay: you can sober up now |
| 20:05.20 | findlay | yea |
| 20:05.45 | findlay | ~do something |
| 20:05.46 | ibot | ACTION does something. |
| 20:05.51 | findlay | (: |
| 20:16.02 | lars-ut | softwarefor.org just made the frontpage of digg.com |
| 20:16.18 | findlay | sweet |
| 20:20.26 | atoponce | grr |
| 20:20.38 | atoponce | i just realized what i typed |
| 20:20.42 | atoponce | let's try this again |
| 20:20.54 | atoponce | 'yd. Ekrpat co lprxaxnf jrmcbi anrbi bcj.nfv' to qwerty: the Dvorak is probably coming along nicely. |
| 20:20.56 | atoponce | hah. |
| 20:35.33 | findlay | is there a way to get the gnome file dialog to display a file preview? |
| 20:35.48 | findlay | like konqueror's file dialog kpart? |
| 21:06.31 | findlay | my main thing about CSS is I need to know the syntax and semantics first |
| 21:07.50 | Tene | findlay: ??? |
| 21:09.15 | findlay | Tene: obviously because everyone in this channel is always so anxious and concerned about how I'm doing, they'll remember that I am looking for a good CSS tutorial |
| 21:09.33 | findlay | and then I remarked that I'd like to know the syntax and semantics first |
| 21:12.50 | Tene | there isn't much mroe to css than name: value; |
| 21:13.00 | Tene | http://htmldog.com/ comes to mind |
| 21:13.11 | Tene | I know they have a pretty good css reference. |
| 21:15.29 | findlay | yeah but I still don't know what the difference between an id and a class is |
| 21:15.31 | findlay | things like that |
| 21:17.29 | Tene | id = single item |
| 21:17.31 | jsmith | An id must (or at least SHOULD) be unique |
| 21:17.43 | jsmith | A class says "this object is of type X" |
| 21:17.45 | Tene | class = general category type thing |
| 21:17.59 | jsmith | The class is then used to set the display properties, etc. of everything belonging to that class |
| 21:18.24 | Tene | <ul id="navbar"><li class="navitem"></li><li class="navitem"></li></ul> |
| 21:19.04 | findlay | for id being unique you mean exactly 0 or 1 tags and that's it? |
| 21:19.16 | Tene | That's how it should be. |
| 21:19.30 | Tene | There should be 0 or 1 tags with a specific id. |
| 21:19.37 | findlay | ok |
| 21:26.44 | SB1-Laptop | Stored procedures are triggers are fun |
| 21:27.50 | findlay | are interesting are amazing |
| 21:32.32 | *** join/#utah Newsome (n=sorenson@adsl-75-0-136-70.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net) |
| 21:47.55 | jsmith | SB1-Laptop: Funny you should mention that... that's what I've been working on for the last hour or so |
| 21:48.38 | SB1-Laptop | jsmith, hehe, same. |
| 21:48.44 | SB1-Laptop | All I can say, is that I'm in love. |
| 21:53.42 | findlay | well it allows you to keep the data validation right on top of the data where it should be |
| 21:53.57 | findlay | not abstracted away in some web form |
| 21:54.36 | *** join/#utah Lone_Wanderer_ (n=chatzill@208-186-98-2.customer.csolutions.net) |
| 21:56.26 | SB1-Laptop | Not to mention they make my life *easy*. |
| 22:46.01 | SB1-Laptop | What I find odd, is that before, I only used kdevelop (or kate) to write code |
| 22:46.09 | SB1-Laptop | Now I'm using vim, to write .sql files... |
| 22:46.39 | maquis | SB1-Laptop: what's weird about that? |
| 22:47.01 | SB1-Laptop | maquis, just a sudden change that 1) I never saw coming and 2) have no reason to change, yet I did.. |
| 22:49.04 | SB1-Laptop | Oh, and add to that, the fact that I've never written .sql by hand before (for table structure, that is)... and that's exactly what I'm doing now |
| 22:51.32 | SB1-Laptop | Plus I'm using subversion to manage all of that code, also something I never bothered with before |
| 23:03.05 | wps | sorry to bring this up again, but… |
| 23:03.11 | wps | have people been getting mail from the list today? |
| 23:03.15 | wps | I haven't received anything |
| 23:03.22 | Tene | I have! |
| 23:03.30 | Tene | I even received your test message! |
| 23:03.30 | findlay | your mail is broken beyond repair |
| 23:03.38 | findlay | I would take it back and demand a refund |
| 23:03.55 | wps | I even tried sighing up with a different account (gmail) and haven't received any mail there… including the confirmation-you're-subscribed-message |
| 23:25.08 | synic | wps: you sure it didn't "junk" the confirm-you're-subscribed-message ? |
| 23:25.22 | synic | sometimes gmail does that on the first one... |
| 23:27.11 | wps | good call synic |
| 23:27.14 | wps | there it is |
| 23:27.35 | wps | I still don't understand what happened to my normal account… mail just stopped coming this morning |
| 23:34.54 | dataw0lf | synic |
| 23:34.56 | dataw0lf | ! |
| 23:35.45 | synic | dataw0lf?!??32 |
| 23:36.33 | dataw0lf | what you doing tonight? |
| 23:36.57 | synic | going skiing for my bday |
| 23:37.14 | dataw0lf | dude I'm totally a snowboarder now, btw |
| 23:37.21 | dataw0lf | we should do something tomorrow then |
| 23:37.23 | dataw0lf | and happy b-day |
| 23:37.26 | synic | I thought you'd never go up there?!??1 |
| 23:37.28 | synic | thanks |
| 23:37.31 | synic | yeah, we should |
| 23:37.37 | synic | how long are you in town? |
| 23:37.44 | dataw0lf | well, my number is 775-530-1917 |
| 23:37.47 | dataw0lf | til Sunday morning. |
| 23:37.50 | synic | k |
| 23:38.27 | synic | you at optis? |
| 23:39.36 | dataw0lf | ya |
| 23:46.29 | *** join/#utah jnbek (n=jnbek@c-24-10-178-17.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 23:50.27 | *** join/#utah levi_home (n=levi@levi.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 23:51.26 | levi_home | Whee, I'm in WA now. |
| 23:53.05 | synic | you at optis?x kl;'? |
| 23:53.18 | synic | oops |
| 23:54.59 | findlay | ~wa levi_home |
| 23:56.10 | lars-ut | levi_home: where in WA? |
| 23:56.54 | lars-ut | I've got family in Spokane & Seattle |
| 23:57.18 | lars-ut | and an in-law from Tri-Cities |