| 00:00.23 | __Art | sorry nick125, I gotta go, I'll try later. |
| 00:01.06 | levi_home | Mmm, chocolate. |
| 00:01.48 | emcnabb | Mmm, banana bread. |
| 00:02.07 | emcnabb | I wonder if I'm going to get in trouble for eating the entire loaf today? |
| 00:02.26 | levi_home | Quite possible. |
| 00:02.47 | emcnabb | either that or I can say "dear, it was so good I couldn't stop" |
| 00:07.22 | bonez41 | emcnabb, or you could just quietly eat and then deny any knowledge of its whereabouts when asked |
| 00:09.18 | emcnabb | bonez41: true... "dear, I don't remember you making that, your memory has been very flakey recently" |
| 00:09.37 | emcnabb | maybe I shouldn't use the "flakey" part :-) |
| 00:10.38 | emcnabb | actually, blaming the dog usually works, I'll use that |
| 00:10.45 | emcnabb | this is a really good game |
| 00:18.38 | emcnabb | there is a circle two policemen thick around each goalpost |
| 00:18.53 | emcnabb | they really want them to stay up |
| 00:21.54 | Sargun | Wow, that movie was very twisted |
| 00:23.35 | levi_home | Sargun: Yes. |
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| 02:32.06 | cww | emcnabb, you comin'? |
| 02:42.07 | Sargun | haha |
| 02:42.23 | Sargun | cww, You work for RH also? |
| 02:44.04 | cww | Sargun, yessir |
| 02:44.16 | Sargun | Cool, position if I may ask? |
| 02:45.11 | emcnabb | cww: it looks like we're going to have a "together" night |
| 02:45.15 | cww | I am a technical account manager for HP, I basically work bugs on HP's behalf, kind of an engineering liason to RH engineering |
| 02:45.23 | Sargun | Cool. |
| 02:45.30 | emcnabb | cww is the man |
| 02:45.33 | cww | emcnabb, understood, enjoy! ;-) |
| 02:45.41 | Sargun | What do you think of the Novell & SuSe deal? |
| 02:46.42 | Sargun | Humans should not have to read XML; geeks aren't human. :-P |
| 02:46.47 | cww | well, they have some great developers inboth orgs, but they have a different philosphhy than RH does WRT OSS |
| 02:48.11 | Sargun | How do you think Novell is going to end up after Microsoft |
| 02:48.36 | Sargun | I mean look at Novell and how many amazing projects they've taken on. |
| 02:48.40 | emcnabb | most companies that partner with MS have not ended up in good positions |
| 02:48.48 | Sargun | emcnabb, I've seen so. |
| 02:48.55 | emcnabb | and look at how many things Novell has screwed up |
| 02:49.38 | cww | I haven't been following that whoe M$ Novell thing, but it smack of a marketing ploy to me, I don;t get it, WTF is Novell thinking, M$ stands for everything OSS is no |
| 02:49.39 | emcnabb | Basically it comes down to Novell can't seem to compete the old fashioned way, so they resort to dancing with the devil |
| 02:49.49 | cww | not |
| 02:50.01 | cww | emcnabb preach brother |
| 02:50.23 | Sargun | cww, Microsoft isn't completely anti-OSS |
| 02:50.27 | Sargun | er FLOSS |
| 02:50.38 | Sargun | they've started to embrace the transition. |
| 02:50.53 | Sargun | mainly by building better APIs, and products |
| 02:51.12 | Newsome | 'embrace' in the same way a boa constrictor 'embraces' a mouse |
| 02:51.13 | Sargun | Newsome, haha. Yeah. |
| 02:51.13 | emcnabb | Newsome: good comparison :-) |
| 02:51.34 | cww | well, I think of it this way, a lie of ommission is still a lie, so being only partially in the OSS camp is opportunistic on M$s part |
| 02:51.35 | emcnabb | Microsoft is putting on a show |
| 02:52.14 | Newsome | "See, officer? I wasn't speeding. The world was just travelling rapidly beneath my car, and I was just trying to keep up!" |
| 02:52.39 | cww | OSS suits them at the moment, if they are truely committed to OSS, I'd like to see them open up Windowz |
| 02:53.31 | Sargun | cww, I'd be happy if they opened up chunks of Windows |
| 02:54.13 | emcnabb | Every company out there has the goal to make money. That's one of Red Hat's goals too. I've always known that Red Hat has been strongly comitted to the OSS movement, but now that I've worked there for a while, I'm fully convinced about out position. We believe that we can make money and further the movement at the same time, without compromising our values |
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| 02:54.58 | emcnabb | if Novell thinks they need Microsoft to sell Linux, more power to them |
| 02:55.03 | emcnabb | but in the end they will lose |
| 02:55.44 | emcnabb | I hope Novell does well (since their success will further help Linux), but they sure are going about it the wrong way |
| 02:57.27 | Newsome | RH does a few dumb things too, but not nearly as many or as big as Novell's stupids |
| 02:57.34 | emcnabb | Newsome: I agree |
| 02:57.50 | emcnabb | every company does dumb things, because people do dumb things |
| 02:59.49 | cww | emcnabb: oh yeah |
| 03:01.18 | emcnabb | cww: enjoy the fight! (UFC, not Novell/MS/Red Hat) |
| 03:01.34 | cww | RH can improve in a few areas, for sure, but for ht emost part, a comapny of 1700 with 250000 customers is doing somehting right, the trick is to keep inproving |
| 03:01.48 | cww | lol, yeah, it is starting righ tnow, woo hooo |
| 03:05.21 | emcnabb | it's interesting to hear the opinions of people internally when a dumb idea is proposed - you will be immediately flamed by a large number of very smart kernel developers :-) |
| 03:06.34 | Sargun | haha |
| 03:07.08 | cww | it used to be a lot worse |
| 03:11.16 | Sargun | Never code when your pissed off at someone. It looks horrible. |
| 03:11.21 | Sargun | (the code) |
| 03:14.46 | emcnabb | I guess the other solution is to not get mad at someone - then your code would look good |
| 03:15.55 | Sargun | emcnabb, various things can easily make you mad |
| 03:16.29 | Sargun | being mad at a person for doing these things is inevitable. |
| 03:17.03 | emcnabb | like eating your dog? |
| 03:17.08 | emcnabb | or blowing up your car? |
| 03:18.09 | Sargun | No comment. |
| 03:20.05 | emcnabb | oh, I see. Your dog was in the car! |
| 03:20.37 | cww | emcnabb: those seem like oddly specific offenses |
| 03:21.04 | emcnabb | well, Sargun lives a crazy life, so I decided to go with something off-the-wall |
| 03:21.29 | Sargun | hahaha |
| 03:26.21 | emcnabb | night all |
| 03:26.56 | Sargun | emcnabb, night. |
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| 03:41.41 | Sargun | funny code: obj.set(i, getattr(i, '__str__')() ) |
| 03:41.50 | Sargun | er, crappy code |
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| 04:07.50 | Sargun | Why is idle being retarded? |
| 04:11.16 | nick125 | Sargun: you still use idle? |
| 04:11.36 | Sargun | no, I needed to do some formatting editing |
| 04:11.45 | Sargun | and idle is the quickest utility |
| 04:11.50 | Sargun | but its kicking my butt |
| 04:12.26 | Sargun | bill.py:29: Function (billTo) has too many arguments (11) |
| 04:12.27 | Sargun | wtf |
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| 04:28.19 | bonez41 | Sargun, nick125 quick mysql question...if I run apt-get to install a package....would apt-get downgrade something...or would it only attempt to install a newer package, if available? |
| 04:29.09 | nick125 | it shouldn't downgrade |
| 04:29.19 | bonez41 | ok.... |
| 04:30.14 | bonez41 | Sargun, you are driving me nuts.....quoting ... I thought I was going crazy for a moment |
| 04:30.59 | Sargun | quoting? |
| 04:31.04 | Sargun | oh |
| 04:31.19 | bonez41 | hehhe. yeah |
| 04:31.40 | bonez41 | it's ok though, Sargun ... I am half crazy anyway |
| 04:38.16 | Sargun | nick125, you wanna see something really cool? |
| 04:38.41 | nick125 | um |
| 04:38.41 | nick125 | sure |
| 04:39.46 | Sargun | http://pastebin.ca/252188 |
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| 04:40.20 | nick125 | lol |
| 04:40.48 | Sargun | Since I was 10 |
| 04:41.12 | Sargun | 9 is when I started using Linux-related devices |
| 04:41.48 | bonez41 | I need to get my boys learning how..they have a linux box in their room....how can I interest them in linux? |
| 04:42.01 | nick125 | I've been using linux for..... |
| 04:42.04 | nick125 | 4 years? |
| 04:42.33 | Sargun | bonez41, Do they play computer games? |
| 04:43.06 | Sargun | and how geeky do you want them to be? |
| 04:43.40 | nick125 | I personally think that geekyness is genetic |
| 04:44.01 | Sargun | nick125, then I should be the biggest non-geek ever. |
| 04:44.09 | nick125 | me too :p |
| 04:45.05 | Sargun | If they really like computer games. then show them something cool they can do with the computer game that is not standard. |
| 04:45.12 | Sargun | such as game modification |
| 04:45.17 | Sargun | or if they are old enough |
| 04:45.24 | Sargun | teach them how to "hack" |
| 04:45.34 | Sargun | not real hacking that they can get in trouble for |
| 04:45.48 | Sargun | but code altering |
| 04:46.05 | Sargun | Not until 8 years of age or so |
| 04:46.10 | Sargun | can you do that. |
| 04:47.14 | Sargun | Or set them up with a computer, break it, and leave around some very very easy documentation to fix it. |
| 04:47.34 | Sargun | there are a variety of ways to set them up to learn about computers |
| 04:48.25 | Sargun | Now to test this code. |
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| 04:50.04 | Sargun | nick125, Did you know cybersource is local? |
| 04:54.19 | Sargun | bonez41, The number one rule is not to teach them directly |
| 04:54.28 | Sargun | allow them to learn by poking around |
| 04:56.57 | levi_home | I got interested in computer programming when my dad wrote a little math tutor program for me in the 3rd grade or so. |
| 04:57.21 | levi_home | I dunno if that kind of thing is going to capture the imagination of today's kids, though. |
| 04:59.27 | Sargun | levi_home, It won't. |
| 05:00.21 | levi_home | Probably depends on the kid and previous exposure to flashy games and stuff. |
| 05:20.40 | maquis | how in the world do i add a locale to the available locales? |
| 05:29.46 | levi_home | maquis: Beats me/ |
| 05:29.49 | levi_home | . |
| 05:29.58 | maquis | :( |
| 05:30.13 | levi_home | maquis: Want to see my theorem prover for first-order logic? |
| 05:31.44 | maquis | levi_home: first-order logic is hitting my brain as something that i supposedly learned in cs330.... |
| 05:34.02 | levi_home | It's aka predicate logic. |
| 05:34.22 | levi_home | You probably covered it earlier than 330. |
| 05:35.14 | levi_home | It extends propositional logic with such things as variables, functions, and universal/existential quantifiers. |
| 05:35.33 | levi_home | It should also have been covered in AI. |
| 05:36.34 | elg | prop. logic is covered the first time in 235/236 |
| 05:36.55 | levi_home | That's what I thought, but I didn't remember the course numbers. |
| 05:37.09 | levi_home | I ran into a UVSC professor at the chocolate show tonight. |
| 05:37.42 | levi_home | He talked me up in front of my wife, which was nice. :) |
| 05:37.56 | levi_home | elg: Do you want to see my theorem prover? |
| 05:38.10 | elg | just about to hit the sack. email it |
| 05:38.39 | elg | night |
| 05:39.36 | maquis-fiance | maquis: locales for GCC? |
| 05:43.51 | levi_home | elg: G'night |
| 06:01.59 | maquis | maquis-fiance: locales for linux |
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| 06:02.45 | maquis-fiance | maquis: hmm, . . I'll see what I can find |
| 06:13.19 | maquis | maquis-fiance: i'm not finding much... |
| 06:13.36 | maquis-fiance | maquis: me either |
| 06:13.52 | maquis | i've found a bunch of pages that say to do things that don't work |
| 06:13.54 | maquis | :) |
| 06:14.32 | maquis-fiance | maquis: what are you trying to do? Change the locale, but for what purpose? |
| 06:14.58 | maquis | actually, i'm trying to set it so that it won't complain when i try to use LANG=zh_CN while calling something... |
| 06:15.10 | maquis | and i want locale -a to list zh_CN as an available locale |
| 06:24.50 | maquis-fiance | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:33.19 | Sargun | How do I get the value of a string? |
| 06:34.01 | Sargun | best way would be to string.replace("a", "a") |
| 06:34.06 | Sargun | right? |
| 06:34.39 | Sargun | "hi".replace("","") |
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| 06:41.09 | levi_home | Sargun: What's the context of this? |
| 06:41.16 | Sargun | python |
| 06:41.27 | levi_home | A string should evaluate to its own value. |
| 06:42.27 | nick125 | Sargun: you shouldn't need to do that |
| 06:42.45 | levi_home | 'foo' and 'foo'.replace('','') evaluate to exactly the same thing, the string 'foo' |
| 06:42.46 | Sargun | look at the code |
| 06:43.27 | Sargun | print getattr("lastName", '__str__')() |
| 06:43.32 | Sargun | prints "lastName" |
| 06:43.37 | Sargun | not the value of lastName |
| 06:43.43 | nick125 | yeah, thats wrong |
| 06:44.08 | nick125 | I think |
| 06:44.09 | nick125 | wait |
| 06:44.18 | nick125 | why do you have quotes around lastName? |
| 06:44.19 | Sargun | print getattr("lastName", 'replace')("","") #Breaks also |
| 06:44.44 | nick125 | remove the quotes |
| 06:45.00 | Sargun | uh... |
| 06:45.22 | Sargun | because I'm trying to derive the value of a variable from its name |
| 06:45.29 | Sargun | but the value is dynamic |
| 06:45.38 | nick125 | since it will try to grab __str__ from the string "lastName" |
| 06:45.56 | levi_home | The first arg to getattr needs to be an identifier, not a string. |
| 06:46.01 | nick125 | yeah |
| 06:46.05 | nick125 | it has to be an object |
| 06:46.07 | levi_home | The second one should be a string. |
| 06:46.16 | nick125 | but, in this case, the string *IS* an object |
| 06:46.26 | nick125 | which its grabbing the __str__ value from |
| 06:46.33 | nick125 | er __str__ object |
| 06:46.34 | Sargun | What is the "this" identifier of python |
| 06:46.38 | Sargun | then |
| 06:46.57 | nick125 | self (if your in a function) |
| 06:47.40 | Sargun | ['billto', 'city', 'country', 'email', 'firstName', 'ipAddress', 'lastName', 'phoneNumber', 'postalCode', 'self', 'state', 'street1'] |
| 06:47.42 | Sargun | my choices |
| 06:48.03 | nick125 | this is slightly hackish |
| 06:48.10 | nick125 | >>> lastName="Bob" |
| 06:48.11 | nick125 | >>> print globals()['lastName'] |
| 06:48.11 | nick125 | Bob |
| 06:48.11 | nick125 | >>> |
| 06:48.14 | Sargun | and self.lastName doesn't |
| 06:48.24 | levi_home | That's really hackish. |
| 06:48.38 | Sargun | Very very hackish |
| 06:48.41 | Sargun | even like |
| 06:48.43 | nick125 | Sargun: dude |
| 06:48.46 | Sargun | more than sargun hackish |
| 06:48.47 | Sargun | :-P |
| 06:48.50 | nick125 | your entire codebase is hashish |
| 06:48.53 | nick125 | *hackish |
| 06:48.56 | Sargun | hahaha |
| 06:49.08 | levi_home | Heh, nice Freudian slip. |
| 06:49.22 | nick125 | that was not! |
| 06:50.36 | levi_home | Don't worry, I won't tell anyone about your drug problem! |
| 06:50.59 | nick125 | I wasn't worrying about mine, I was worried about Sargun's while he's coding |
| 06:51.05 | Sargun | ahah |
| 06:54.27 | levi_home | Time for me to sleep. Don't make too much spaghetti, Sargun. |
| 06:54.36 | Sargun | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:54.36 | Sargun | KeyError: 'firstName' |
| 06:54.38 | Sargun | haha |
| 06:54.44 | nick125 | are you in a function? |
| 06:55.00 | Sargun | yeah. |
| 06:55.10 | Sargun | Methody functiony thing |
| 06:55.19 | nick125 | small flood! |
| 06:55.20 | nick125 | >>> def heh(): |
| 06:55.20 | nick125 | ... lastName="bob" |
| 06:55.20 | nick125 | ... print locals()['lastName'] |
| 06:55.20 | nick125 | ... |
| 06:55.22 | nick125 | >>> heh() |
| 06:55.25 | nick125 | bob |
| 06:55.27 | nick125 | >>> |
| 06:56.00 | Sargun | but lastName is being passed to heh |
| 06:56.10 | Sargun | so |
| 06:56.35 | nick125 | doesn't matter |
| 06:56.43 | nick125 | if its being defined in a function, you got to use locals() |
| 06:56.54 | nick125 | unless you global'ized the variable |
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| 06:58.49 | Sargun | I had to use locals() |
| 07:13.29 | Sargun | dowpdjwaiodjwaoidfjf |
| 07:14.27 | nick125 | rwioghobhigwhrblfkherwiohb |
| 07:14.30 | nick125 | oo I beat ya! |
| 07:18.24 | findlay | wow |
| 07:18.26 | findlay | just wow |
| 07:18.54 | findlay | nobody's ever heard Rachmaninov's 3rd piano concerto like I just have |
| 07:47.36 | findlay | levi_home: you went to bed too soon and now I can't rave about Rachmaninov to anyone |
| 07:48.07 | findlay | ibot: Rachmaninov is awesome |
| 07:48.16 | ibot | ...but rachmaninov is already something else... |
| 07:48.30 | findlay | ibot: whatever, you're just saying that |
| 08:14.26 | dilvie | findlay: how did you hear it? |
| 08:14.50 | dilvie | personally, I think the best way to enjoy Rachmaninov is in a nice concert hall, played by a great pianist. |
| 08:28.33 | Sargun | Who here is alive? |
| 08:31.04 | nick125 | no one :p |
| 08:31.12 | nick125 | not even ibot |
| 08:31.14 | nick125 | ibot: right? |
| 08:31.24 | ibot | blah blah blah/spam spam spam/yaddayaddayaddayadda sis boom bam |
| 13:21.36 | bonez41 | alive here |
| 13:59.39 | bonez41 | is is possible to forward multiple messages ... in mutt, or just one message at a time? |
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| 16:20.46 | cww | emcnabb: you had any luck getting to slicehost? |
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| 18:52.28 | Sargun | ibot, Actually I got a girl who likes me, and I like her a lot, its just that we have a friendship that I don't wanna break, and she lives in San Jose. |
| 18:52.41 | Sargun | ibot, So, I'd appreciate it if you'd just shut up. |
| 18:52.52 | Sargun | ibot, onjoin -Sargun |
| 18:52.52 | ibot | ok, Sargun |
| 18:53.42 | Sargun | Would talking to a inanimate bot qualify for clinical insanity? |
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| 21:34.52 | levi_home | Good afternoon. |
| 21:42.56 | elg | hi |
| 21:43.08 | elg | mplayer is acting oddly on this new laptop |
| 21:43.18 | elg | audio stutters, bad |
| 21:43.30 | elg | but the cpu isn't anywhere close to utilized, and the same video works without issue in vlc |
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| 22:02.17 | *** part/#utah fordeck (n=knoppix@twitchej.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 22:04.59 | Sargun | elg, You alive still? |
| 22:05.09 | elg | yup |
| 22:05.18 | Sargun | What audio driver? |
| 22:05.31 | Sargun | Pastebin the mplayer initialization logs |
| 22:08.03 | elg | i think I figured it out |
| 22:08.10 | elg | this download isn't a universal binary it looks |
| 22:08.20 | elg | so it's running in emulation |
| 22:19.43 | Sargun | You evil non-Gentoo user! |
| 22:19.46 | Sargun | :-P |
| 23:20.23 | findlay | ~gentoo Sargun |
| 23:21.29 | findlay | ibot: gentoo $sargun is <action> recompiles $sargun again |
| 23:21.31 | ibot | okay, findlay |
| 23:22.24 | atoponce | ~gentoo findlay |
| 23:22.25 | ibot | ACTION recompiles findlay again |
| 23:31.59 | elg | turns out I'm going to install it with darwinports |
| 23:32.03 | elg | which is similar to gentoo, eh? |
| 23:33.07 | elg | this macbook is faster in general, of course. But the two things that I've noticed it does sooo much faster than before are compiling and TeX rendering |
| 23:33.39 | elg | -seen beandog |
| 23:33.39 | brac | beandog was last seen 7 days, 0 hours, 32 minutes and 58 seconds ago, quitting IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
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| 23:58.18 | levi_home | elg: I was surprised at how slow the G4 was at compiling, considering it was fairly snappy with other stuff. |
| 23:59.20 | levi_home | elg: Anyway, did you ever figure out that proof you were trying to do that a grammar was not context-free? |
| 23:59.23 | elg | yeah, I was surprised too |
| 23:59.31 | elg | yes, but only with the professor's help |
| 23:59.45 | elg | he did discuss the approach in class, though, and a couple of people actually got it right |
| 23:59.58 | elg | but I couldn't even tell it was right because I didn't know the approach |