| 00:00.21 | Tene | za'a do samyzva la'o zoi #lojban zoi |
| 00:09.57 | Keighvin | I'll have to become a regular there. |
| 00:10.01 | Keighvin | For now, though, |
| 00:25.33 | *** join/#utah Chadbryant (n=chadbrya@71-35-233-162.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 00:25.43 | mheath[laptop] | bah. stupid bureacracy. |
| 00:25.54 | Tene | e'u catra |
| 00:25.58 | Tene | erm... |
| 00:26.05 | Tene | I suggest murder |
| 00:26.21 | Tene | totally a good solution, and not a bad one at all |
| 00:27.36 | mheath[laptop] | So, Mr. Heath, despite the fact that you have a form here that authoritively proves you were in the military, i'm afraid we didn't hear that you were in the military from the _right_ sourc |
| 00:27.51 | mheath[laptop] | so now I need you to write a 2 page statement about how you were in hte military |
| 00:28.03 | mheath[laptop] | And I'll need 3 letters from people of good repute in the community, backing this up. |
| 00:28.46 | Tene | I strongly suggest murder. |
| 00:29.56 | Sargun | Ugh, my phone is being retarded |
| 00:30.24 | mheath[laptop] | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:30.34 | Tene | Navy, right? |
| 00:30.40 | mheath[laptop] | Yep |
| 00:30.44 | Tene | That's cool. |
| 00:30.53 | mheath[laptop] | Theres a few things that make me want to stay here, but their unimportant things |
| 00:31.01 | mheath[laptop] | Hobbies, interests, friends.....not job or school |
| 00:31.37 | Chadbryant | Navy is cool |
| 00:31.38 | Chadbryant | most of my family was Navy or Air Force |
| 00:31.38 | mheath[laptop] | Chadbryant, Not as cool as the Marine Corps :) |
| 00:31.38 | Chadbryant | I bucked the trend and went Army |
| 00:31.38 | mheath[laptop] | erm, an almost-Marine by heart. |
| 00:31.59 | mheath[laptop] | Chadbryant, I was the first person in my families ancestry to join the Marine Corps |
| 00:32.01 | Tene | so no marines for you ever again? |
| 00:32.06 | *** join/#utah graphyx (n=graphyx@205.208.245.105) |
| 00:32.14 | mheath[laptop] | We'd had Air Force, several Army, Several navy... |
| 00:32.21 | Tene | I really don't understand how all this military stuff works. |
| 00:32.26 | mheath[laptop] | Tene, Nope. And it sucks, but its not even related to my injury |
| 00:32.32 | Chadbryant | I was forbidden to join the Marine Corps |
| 00:32.56 | mheath[laptop] | See, when they were examining me related to this injury, they found some minor physical conditions that weren't realted to the injury, but will disqualify me from the Marine Corps again |
| 00:33.02 | mheath[laptop] | For example, I am very flat footed. |
| 00:33.06 | Tene | Ahh. |
| 00:33.26 | mheath[laptop] | I didn't know my feet were unusually flat when I first signed up |
| 00:33.27 | levi | mheath[laptop]: I thought you were going to do ROTC? |
| 00:33.30 | mheath[laptop] | Some other minor things. |
| 00:33.38 | mheath[laptop] | levi: I was considering that. I don't know though. |
| 00:33.45 | mheath[laptop] | I'm really not sure about starting school yet |
| 00:33.47 | Tene | Was your heart two sizes too small, by chance? |
| 00:33.51 | Chadbryant | I'm pretty flat-footed |
| 00:34.01 | levi | mheath[laptop]: Why's that? |
| 00:34.16 | Chadbryant | but an 84 on the ASVAB with all of my line scores above 118 got me whatever job I wanted |
| 00:34.28 | mheath[laptop] | levi: I had a really hard time with highschool, and I'm not sure I'm ready to do the whole school thing again so early. |
| 00:34.58 | mheath[laptop] | Chadbryant, Heh, with my ASVAB, the recruiters looked at me like I was nuts when I told them I wanted to go Infantry. |
| 00:35.11 | levi | mheath[laptop]: Well, taking a break from it can be nice, but going back to full-time school after being away from it is really tough. |
| 00:35.34 | mheath[laptop] | The air force woman down at MEPS who was adminsitering the test said "You should have joined the Air Force!" |
| 00:35.56 | mheath[laptop] | Yeah, I know.. |
| 00:35.57 | levi | mheath[laptop]: I could only get back to part-time school, and that was after way too many years off from it. Now I feel WAY behind where I could have been. |
| 00:35.58 | Chadbryant | That's OK...my original MOS was field artillery. |
| 00:36.35 | levi | mheath[laptop]: That's because you WERE nuts for wanting to go infantry. That's just nuts in general. |
| 00:36.58 | mheath[laptop] | levi: I'm considering a job that would get me my associates degree just from the job training, though :) |
| 00:37.00 | mheath[laptop] | (in the Navy) |
| 00:37.57 | levi | mheath[laptop]: If you can combine military and school somehow, that might be helpful. But getting school out of the way quickly is a lot easier before you get established in your life. |
| 00:38.49 | mheath[laptop] | Gah! |
| 00:38.53 | mheath[laptop] | ~lart "Annapolis" |
| 00:39.41 | mheath[laptop] | Me wonders why they keep saying "Sir, Aye, Aye, Sir!" |
| 00:40.00 | mheath[laptop] | Our drill instructors used to say "Did I ask you to make me a Sir sandwhich?" |
| 00:40.10 | mheath[laptop] | Only Army makes Sir Sanwhichs. |
| 00:41.05 | mheath[laptop] | I don't care that much, but I now feel dumb for recommending this movie |
| 00:41.18 | Tene | Should have recommended Patton! |
| 00:41.36 | mheath[laptop] | We were looking for a Navy-related movie to show the Sea Cadet kids during the overnight thing we're putting on for them. |
| 00:41.38 | Chadbryant | um |
| 00:41.53 | Chadbryant | You know the quickest way to earn extra PT in Army BCT? |
| 00:41.59 | Tene | Ask for it? |
| 00:42.03 | Chadbryant | Call a drill sergeant "sir". |
| 00:42.32 | mheath[laptop] | Chadbryant, and an officer? |
| 00:42.35 | Chadbryant | You will refer to each and every DS as "drill sergeant". |
| 00:42.43 | mheath[laptop] | Is it normal to say "Sir, *, Sir!" in the Army, to an officer? |
| 00:42.49 | Chadbryant | Officers are called "sir" or "ma'am". |
| 00:43.15 | Chadbryant | You preface your response to an officer with the appropriate word. |
| 00:43.20 | rsimpkins | All that dicipline just so you can ultimatly kill people. |
| 00:43.24 | Chadbryant | "Sir, blah blah, blah." |
| 00:43.36 | Chadbryant | Or "Blah blah blah, sir." |
| 00:43.48 | mheath[laptop] | OK, apparently army making Sir Sanwhichs is a media hype. |
| 00:43.52 | mheath[laptop] | Movie and such |
| 00:44.04 | mheath[laptop] | "Drill Sergeants"......Heh. |
| 00:44.09 | Chadbryant | I can pick out so many errors in movies & TV shows now. |
| 00:44.22 | mheath[laptop] | I saw a few Drill Instructors get SO mad when recruits called them Drill Sergeants. |
| 00:44.25 | Chadbryant | Usually to do with logistics, etc. |
| 00:44.29 | rsimpkins | Chadbryant: what is the most realistic movie you have seen? |
| 00:44.48 | Chadbryant | I'm actually not a big fan of war movies. |
| 00:45.10 | rsimpkins | hey - it is related to linux - I swear. |
| 00:45.12 | mheath[laptop] | rsimpkins, Whats weird for me is, the movies that accurately depict what an aspect of the military is like, tend to not be trying to depict that part of the military :P |
| 00:45.19 | emcnabb | #utah has really gone downhill over the last 6 months or so |
| 00:45.42 | rsimpkins | emcnabb: Almost more social that linux driven? |
| 00:45.49 | Chadbryant | "Full Metal Jacket" is quite vivid for the war scenes, but the boot camp setting is a bit dated now, from what I understand. |
| 00:45.54 | maquis | emcnabb: agreed... as an op, i'm afraid that i'm partially responsible |
| 00:46.00 | emcnabb | rsimpkins: no, it has always been social |
| 00:46.13 | mheath[laptop] | Chadbryant, "Full Metal jacket" is NOTHING like what basic training is like.. |
| 00:46.23 | Chadbryant | I watched "Stripes" the other night, and the BCT portion was too comedic to be accurate. |
| 00:46.25 | maquis | rsimpkins: more like, certain people can't talk about anything besides the military, and it's really old |
| 00:46.29 | mheath[laptop] | Its a joke of what boot is like now, let alone what it was like THEN. |
| 00:46.37 | maquis | and they've been warned at least once |
| 00:46.49 | Chadbryant | Hey, I just got here. |
| 00:47.00 | maquis | Chadbryant: yes... and i gave one warning in the past minute |
| 00:47.13 | Chadbryant | And joined in what appeared to be the predominant conversation. |
| 00:47.32 | rsimpkins | Chadbryant: I think you just hit the nail on the head. |
| 00:47.42 | emcnabb | Chadbryant: you're fine, it's just that mheath[laptop] only talks about this |
| 00:47.52 | maquis | mheath[laptop]: ti's not about about being on-topic at all times |
| 00:47.56 | emcnabb | he couldn't cut it in the military |
| 00:48.07 | emcnabb | so now he comes around and talks about it all the time |
| 00:48.20 | emcnabb | like he's an expert |
| 00:48.33 | maquis | i'm going to start enforcing this because multiple people (as in, more than 5) have complained and want it to end now |
| 00:48.36 | emcnabb | Chadbryant: but you're more than welcome to join us whenever you'd like :-) |
| 00:48.43 | mheath[laptop] | emcnabb, Um, no, I don't talk about it like I'm an expert. |
| 00:48.49 | emcnabb | yes you do |
| 00:48.52 | rsimpkins | Let's just stop. |
| 00:49.15 | rsimpkins | I'm sure we can find something else interestnig to talk about. |
| 00:49.22 | Chadbryant | Sure, like politics! |
| 00:49.25 | emcnabb | :-) |
| 00:49.26 | *** join/#utah tubbybubba (i=10138@sharedserver.org) |
| 00:49.26 | Chadbryant | j/k |
| 00:49.30 | levi | No, no! Like packrat parsers! |
| 00:49.38 | rsimpkins | Like how e-voting machines should be open-source. |
| 00:49.47 | Tene | So, tell me about apckrat parsers, levi! |
| 00:49.56 | mheath[laptop] | emcnabb, I got kicked out of the military because I was diagnosed with a life threatening connective tissue disorder called Marfan's Syndrome. |
| 00:49.57 | Chadbryant | I watched "Hacking Democracy" the other night. |
| 00:50.09 | Chadbryant | I wanted to shoot my television. |
| 00:50.10 | rsimpkins | Chadbryant: was it good, or mostly just hype? |
| 00:50.11 | emcnabb | mheath[laptop]: and you made it sound worse than it was |
| 00:50.12 | levi | I read an interesting paper on a secure voting scheme that wouldn't require electronic machines. |
| 00:50.18 | Tene | mheath[laptop]: we're all very very aware of that. |
| 00:50.20 | emcnabb | we've heard it so many times |
| 00:50.23 | Chadbryant | And I don't even own a gun. |
| 00:50.33 | emcnabb | maybe I just need a break from IRC :-) |
| 00:50.34 | levi | Tene: I'd love to, but I've got to go home now so my wife can go do something. |
| 00:50.36 | Chadbryant | It was very insightful...but also very disturbing. |
| 00:50.43 | Tene | levi: IRC while driving! |
| 00:50.51 | *** join/#utah jakea (n=jakea@12-191-122-219.att-inc.com) |
| 00:51.00 | mheath[laptop] | emcnabb, how can I fake a genetic disorder that I didn't know about, when 99% of the symptoms that caused that diagnosis were already existing, physical characteristics? |
| 00:51.01 | levi | Tene: Don't have an irc-enabled cell phone anymore. :) |
| 00:51.12 | emcnabb | mheath[laptop]: would you like me to pull up the logs AGAIN |
| 00:51.19 | emcnabb | you are pathetic |
| 00:51.20 | Tene | levi: sms proxy! |
| 00:51.29 | emcnabb | and you come aound here because people actually talk to you |
| 00:52.05 | levi | Tene: I don't have unlimited SMS, either, and I'm not gonna pay extra to talk to you guys. :) |
| 00:52.06 | Chadbryant | Is it wrong that the only Linux IRC client I like is Gaim? |
| 00:52.15 | emcnabb | I have EDS, but I don't spill my guts daily |
| 00:52.21 | Chadbryant | I see people rave about Xchat, and I just don't get it. |
| 00:52.29 | levi | Anyway, off I go. Have fun. |
| 00:52.32 | emcnabb | Chadbryant: irssi |
| 00:52.33 | Tene | Chadbryant: Yes. Real Linux Users use irssi. |
| 00:52.41 | emcnabb | me too, but I'm leaving for a while |
| 00:52.43 | emcnabb | later all |
| 00:52.48 | mheath[laptop] | emcnabb, No, I mention stuff about the military and my life, because certain people, including maquis, told me when I joined the military and when I left that I wanted to keep them updated. |
| 00:53.05 | emcnabb | mheath[laptop]: well, that was then |
| 00:53.07 | maquis | mheath[laptop]: we wanted to know that you're still alive and such... |
| 00:53.11 | emcnabb | now people don't care |
| 00:53.23 | maquis | we don't want you to tell us every single day about the fact that you're not in the marines anymore |
| 00:53.23 | mheath[laptop] | And, yes, I talk alot about the military. Its the only freakin thing I have going for me. |
| 00:53.23 | emcnabb | you're no longer in the military |
| 00:53.32 | emcnabb | mheath[laptop]: well get a life |
| 00:53.36 | mheath[laptop] | I can't afford college, I'm working for next-to-nothing in the job I worked at in highschool. |
| 00:53.54 | emcnabb | here comes the weekly pity-party |
| 00:54.06 | mheath[laptop] | emcnabb, Tried to do that. When I got discharged, I applied at over 80 jobs. |
| 00:54.16 | emcnabb | now you wait for someone to say "no, it's ok mheath, you'll do ok" |
| 00:54.26 | emcnabb | and then you'll keep on going |
| 00:54.33 | mheath[laptop] | I never said I wanted pity. I'm saying I talk about the only thing in my life that interests me: getting back into the military. |
| 00:55.11 | emcnabb | well, most people here don't want to hear it |
| 00:55.34 | mheath[laptop] | I am also quite active in OSS related conversations in here. And never do I try to dominate conversations. |
| 00:55.44 | *** mode/#utah [+m] by maquis |
| 00:55.54 | maquis | ok. 3 minutes cool down time |
| 00:55.56 | emcnabb | sure |
| 00:55.59 | emcnabb | later all |
| 00:56.08 | maquis | did that not work? |
| 00:58.13 | *** mode/#utah [-m] by maquis |
| 00:58.34 | maquis | alright... time-out's over |
| 00:58.58 | Tene | So, what's the solution to Spam? |
| 00:59.42 | ScytheBlade1 | Wait, what? |
| 00:59.45 | ScytheBlade1 | Where's the spam? |
| 01:00.20 | Tene | Possibly in your email inbox! |
| 01:00.25 | ScytheBlade1 | Well |
| 01:00.32 | ScytheBlade1 | I have 850MB of spam there :/ |
| 01:00.57 | ScytheBlade1 | 899M/home/kyle/.thunderbird/ |
| 01:01.07 | ScytheBlade1 | Closer to 988MB of spam, I lied |
| 01:01.19 | mheath[laptop] | Hmm. |
| 01:01.20 | mheath[laptop] | http://www.thetechlounge.com/article/308/10+Reasons+to+Buy+a+DSLR+Camera/ |
| 01:01.35 | Tene | What's DSLR? |
| 01:01.42 | mheath[laptop] | If you need an article to tell you why you need an SLR camera, you don't need an SLR Camera |
| 01:01.56 | mheath[laptop] | Tene, Digital Single Lense Relfex. |
| 01:02.07 | Tene | And what does that mean? |
| 01:02.07 | mheath[laptop] | (What you see through the viewfinder is what you get) |
| 01:02.26 | mheath[laptop] | rather than on cheaper cameras, where the viewfinder is a seperate hole |
| 01:02.50 | Tene | Does it have similar problems to WYSIWYG editors and such? |
| 01:02.58 | mheath[laptop] | SLRs allow you to, mainly, manually control focus. |
| 01:03.06 | mheath[laptop] | ....No. (And I hope your joking) |
| 01:03.08 | Tene | Or is it actually good? |
| 01:03.14 | mheath[laptop] | SLRs are far better than cheap cameras |
| 01:03.24 | mheath[laptop] | The problem is, an amateur won't know what to do with it |
| 01:03.27 | Tene | That is good, then! |
| 01:03.40 | mheath[laptop] | If a person takes really bad pictures with a $10 camera, they're still going to take really bad pictures with a $1,000 camera |
| 01:04.38 | *** join/#utah synic (n=squish@pdpc/supporter/student/synic) |
| 01:04.47 | mheath[laptop] | I don't like the term DSLR, either |
| 01:05.34 | Sargun | No poll updates yet. |
| 01:05.51 | mheath[laptop] | It's started to mean "A nice camera" rather than a particular TYPE of camera. |
| 01:07.04 | mheath[laptop] | And you can accomplish the same thing with cheaper cameras, too, because with digital you can always preview the shot on an LCD |
| 01:08.27 | mheath[laptop] | "No Shutter Lag: Shutter lag is that awful delay between the time that you click the shutter on a digicam and the time that an image is actually taken. With DSLRs, there is virtually no delay between the time that you click the shutter and the image is taken. How many times have you missed a great photo opportunity because the camera didn't focus fast enough and then didn't take the shot fast enough once it was focused?" |
| 01:09.02 | mheath[laptop] | If you can't figure out that even non-SLR cameras let your force focus of a particular item, and make use of that for fast-moving shots, then an SLR camera is a waste of money. |
| 01:09.02 | graphyx | my camera has like between .7 and 1.3 second delay. |
| 01:09.04 | graphyx | It stinks. |
| 01:09.33 | mheath[laptop] | graphyx, Well, the camera has to autofocus. But you can force focus most cameras.... |
| 01:09.45 | mheath[laptop] | And if it's already forced to focus, then theres going to be no delay |
| 01:09.59 | graphyx | mheath That could be it, I had a eos rebel. |
| 01:10.06 | graphyx | and you could hold down the button for autofocus. |
| 01:10.12 | graphyx | And press harder to take the shot. |
| 01:10.18 | graphyx | The digital doesn't seem to work that way. |
| 01:10.41 | mheath[laptop] | Oh, haha. One of the SLR EOS rebels? |
| 01:10.45 | mheath[laptop] | non-digital, though |
| 01:10.57 | graphyx | That one worked just fine. |
| 01:10.58 | mheath[laptop] | You're going to have the same delay with a new SLR if you shoot like that |
| 01:11.18 | graphyx | The one I am lamenting is the kodak C340 |
| 01:11.30 | mheath[laptop] | The hidden meaning of what the article is saying is that if you MANUALLY focus, you won't have that delay |
| 01:12.06 | mheath[laptop] | "Higher Build Quality: Most digicams are plastic, plastic, and more plastic. They feel flimsy and they're not all that hard to break. DSLRs are built to much higher standards, increasingly so as you get into the more expensive models of course. Some of the cheaper DSLRs are still going to have a lot of plastic in them, but overall they're more durable than a similarly priced digicam. When you get into some of the more expensive |
| 01:12.06 | mheath[laptop] | models in the $1,000+ range, bodies are ruggedized with largely metal bodies and nice rubberized grips. The ultra-high-end professional bodies are the most rugged and are weather-sealed so you can use them in the harshest environments without a problem. I don't think you'll find many war photographers using a rinky-dink digicam." |
| 01:12.30 | mheath[laptop] | Now THAT is completely bullcrap. |
| 01:12.54 | mheath[laptop] | Cheap digital cameras are VERY reliable, because they HAVE NO MOVING PARTS. |
| 01:13.12 | mheath[laptop] | Its Lense -> CCD |
| 01:13.56 | mheath[laptop] | A DSLR, however, has precisely calibrated mirrors in the inside |
| 01:14.10 | mheath[laptop] | Not to mention that a DSLR is more likely to have a high quality lense that will break if dropped |
| 01:14.34 | mheath[laptop] | To create the SLR effect, light enters the lense, and hits a mirror that normally reflects the light up to the viewfinder |
| 01:14.43 | graphyx | anyone know what the web file extension vps is for? |
| 01:14.46 | mheath[laptop] | When to push the button, the mirron flips so that light exposes the CCD chip. |
| 01:15.12 | graphyx | mheath why not post the link and let those who want to read it read it instead of cut pasting the entire article? |
| 01:19.17 | mheath[laptop] | graphyx, I posted the link |
| 01:19.21 | mheath[laptop] | I'm commenting on parts of it. |
| 01:19.23 | mheath[laptop] | Giving my opinion. |
| 01:24.02 | *** join/#utah lukfugl (n=lukfugl@lukfugl.fttp.xmission.com) |
| 01:24.09 | lukfugl | yay, voting |
| 01:25.02 | ScytheBlade1 | http://www.electionresults.utah.gov/xmlData/300009.html |
| 01:27.54 | lukfugl | woo, zero percent across the board! :) |
| 01:28.00 | ScytheBlade1 | When do the polls close? |
| 01:28.29 | lukfugl | 8pm |
| 01:28.33 | lukfugl | another half hour |
| 01:29.00 | mheath[laptop] | it will probably be a while after that before reports start coming in |
| 01:29.09 | mheath[laptop] | Though I don't know what their voting technology is like |
| 01:29.21 | mheath[laptop] | Or what kind of verification things have to go through. Maybe they can report immediately after they close. |
| 01:29.58 | mheath[laptop] | Is there a communist cantidate? :P |
| 01:33.11 | lukfugl | didn't see one |
| 01:33.18 | lukfugl | at least not in my precinct |
| 01:41.10 | *** join/#utah scott__ (i=scott@crackaddict.com) |
| 01:44.19 | *** join/#utah emcnabb (n=emcnabb@cobra.mcnabbs.org) |
| 01:51.15 | mheath[laptop] | Heh, any of you notice that that Utah election results page has a sun logo as the page icon? |
| 01:58.38 | levi_home | mheath[laptop]: Digital camera shutter lag is real, and it's not just autofocus. |
| 01:59.04 | levi_home | mheath[laptop]: DSLRs generally are much faster, because professionals won't put up with slow cameras. |
| 01:59.26 | mheath[laptop] | levi_home, generally much faster. That article asserts that because its an SLR, its faster |
| 01:59.30 | mheath[laptop] | It doesn't name a brand or model |
| 01:59.40 | mheath[laptop] | it just says buy an SLR, and this is why. |
| 01:59.57 | mheath[laptop] | The majority of delay in cheaper models is usually autofocus, too |
| 02:10.22 | levi_home | Then why do cheap film cameras with autofocus shoot right away? And why does my reasonably expensive digital camera take so long to take a pre-focused shot that it's unsuitable for action shots? |
| 02:11.53 | levi_home | My dad's DSLR shoots right away. I wish I had it. :) |
| 02:16.50 | Sargun | The thing I like about an SLR is the no delay of shooting |
| 02:16.56 | Sargun | er |
| 02:16.57 | Sargun | DSLR |
| 02:19.16 | *** join/#utah markl_ (i=mark@mail.knm.org) |
| 02:22.25 | *** part/#utah graphyx (n=graphyx@205.208.245.105) |
| 02:40.40 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@ip68-11-49-182.no.no.cox.net) |
| 02:41.14 | *** join/#utah hatchmt (n=mhatch@71-219-20-54.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 02:47.01 | levi_home | Hmm, I'm starting to get tired. That's not good. |
| 02:47.12 | elg | why not? |
| 02:47.28 | levi_home | I've got a paper to write, and a car to jump-start. |
| 02:47.44 | levi_home | Well, a paper to finish writing. |
| 02:47.52 | levi_home | I need to add a page or two. |
| 02:48.12 | elg | goozbach might have some caffeine for ya |
| 02:49.14 | levi_home | It'd be tomorrow by the time it got here. :/ |
| 02:50.23 | levi_home | My LaTeX-fu is weak, but I've about got it licked. |
| 02:50.51 | levi_home | It doesn't help that apa style and apacite add another layer of complexity. |
| 02:51.12 | levi_home | I would rather be reading about PEGs and Packrat parsers. :P |
| 02:51.28 | levi_home | Or at least implementing resolution in first-order logic. |
| 02:53.52 | levi_home | Anyway, I have to figure out and summarize this clever topology discovery algorithm. |
| 03:06.08 | ScytheBlade1 | ... whoa |
| 03:06.09 | ScytheBlade1 | http://www.electionresults.utah.gov/xmlData/300009.html |
| 03:06.16 | ScytheBlade1 | Check out Salt Lake County |
| 03:08.21 | levi_home | I fear the percentages won't stay like that for long, though. |
| 03:08.39 | ScytheBlade1 | But still, that surprises me |
| 03:08.48 | lukfugl | once utah county and every outside SLC gets counted, it will probably drop :( |
| 03:09.06 | ScytheBlade1 | It *will* drop, no doubt there |
| 03:09.14 | ScytheBlade1 | But that alone is impressive |
| 03:09.19 | levi_home | SLC has a pretty darn high percentage of democrats. |
| 03:09.42 | ScytheBlade1 | Also true |
| 03:09.58 | levi_home | It's nice to see such a sound trouncing of Hatch there, though. |
| 03:10.44 | levi_home | ~invoke calvarez ;) |
| 03:10.49 | ScytheBlade1 | lol |
| 03:11.01 | ScytheBlade1 | You're digging your own grave there, levi_home ;) |
| 03:12.09 | HatchEffigy | boo: http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=627296 |
| 03:15.36 | elg | ScytheBlade1: no, he's digging HatchEffigy's grave |
| 03:15.40 | elg | and that's the idea of an effigy |
| 03:16.00 | levi_home | They've called it already, eh? |
| 03:16.09 | levi_home | That's Utah for you. |
| 03:18.36 | elg | is that utah.gov link full results? i.e. did salt lake county really landslide for ashdown? |
| 03:18.59 | elg | i wouldn't be _too_ surprised at salt lake county voting dem |
| 03:19.21 | ScytheBlade1 | I don't think that SL County is complete yet |
| 03:19.32 | ScytheBlade1 | Mostly due to the number of precincts it lists (which is still at 0) |
| 03:20.00 | ScytheBlade1 | But so far, 1k margin in SL County |
| 03:20.27 | elg | so were those 3k people non-precinct or what? |
| 03:20.48 | ScytheBlade1 | Either that or they just haven't plugged in that number yet |
| 03:21.15 | HatchEffigy | elg: I'm thinking it's just one or two precincts reporting, but they didn't update that column or something |
| 03:21.29 | elg | it is a percentage I suppose |
| 03:22.03 | levi_home | Box Elder just reported, and already Ashdown is behind. |
| 03:22.21 | ScytheBlade1 | Yup, there we go |
| 03:22.22 | ScytheBlade1 | Sadly |
| 03:22.30 | HatchEffigy | well, still 0.1% above Hatch |
| 03:22.32 | ScytheBlade1 | But eh, whatever |
| 03:22.42 | ScytheBlade1 | More from SL |
| 03:22.44 | mheath[laptop] | gah, our computers at work are rediculous.... |
| 03:22.47 | HatchEffigy | but not a clear majority :) |
| 03:22.53 | ScytheBlade1 | 1.1k margin |
| 03:23.03 | mheath[laptop] | It can crash an entire computer when the credit card processing server is down. |
| 03:23.08 | mheath[laptop] | Well, crash an entire terminal |
| 03:23.11 | levi_home | HatchEffigy: He was behind when I looked, but some more of his voters must have reported. |
| 03:23.29 | mheath[laptop] | Its a central computer running Windows 2000, with individual terminals running MS-DOS |
| 03:25.34 | mheath[laptop] | Wait, I don't understand the election results page |
| 03:25.44 | mheath[laptop] | SLC has votes, but no precints reporting |
| 03:26.15 | elg | funny that |
| 03:26.58 | mheath[laptop] | And does SLC really have 985 precints? |
| 03:27.12 | ScytheBlade1 | It sure does |
| 03:28.43 | mheath[laptop] | I wonder...if I was to put together a new POS program....I wonder if I could sell that to William Tell (owns local applebees) |
| 03:29.02 | mheath[laptop] | The current program really is a POS (in the _other_ definition of the acronym). |
| 03:29.23 | ScytheBlade1 | mheath[laptop], you're better off than Pizza Hut, I can tell you that now. |
| 03:30.08 | mheath[laptop] | ScytheBlade1, Does Pizza Hut's computers completely crash sometimes when you try to run a credit card, leaving you to wait while your computer spends 10 minutes rebooting, while your customer is standing right infront of you waiting on their food and their credit card? |
| 03:30.15 | Sargun | Wasn't some guy buy the same orrinhatch2006 in here? |
| 03:30.25 | ScytheBlade1 | mheath[laptop], yes, and it's much much worse |
| 03:30.55 | mheath[laptop] | It has ugly problems that make no sense |
| 03:31.10 | Sargun | mheath[laptop], POS programs require quite a large infrastructure for support... |
| 03:31.17 | Sargun | ScytheBlade1, I like the Yum POS system |
| 03:31.20 | ScytheBlade1 | mheath[laptop], from what I've heard, Pizza Hut uses custom software that runs on RH7.1, console only |
| 03:31.42 | Sargun | Capri |
| 03:31.43 | Sargun | right? |
| 03:31.59 | ScytheBlade1 | You submit your order to the system, which then talks to the server far away, and processes everything over there, and then the remote server tells the local POS terminal to print a reciept |
| 03:32.01 | levi_home | Sargun: That was calvarez |
| 03:32.24 | ScytheBlade1 | Likewise, about four billion things can go wrong, and I have a personal friend who works in one such pizza hut.. it's an absolutely horrible system from what I hear |
| 03:32.30 | mheath[laptop] | ScytheBlade1, Ours is MS-DOS computers that act as a terminal to a windows 2000 machine |
| 03:32.50 | mheath[laptop] | Sargun, Yum POS? Link? |
| 03:33.07 | mheath[laptop] | ScytheBlade1, Pizza Hut has far less use that our POS, I imagine. |
| 03:33.15 | elg | my economics teacher mathematically proved that our voting system tends to a two-party system |
| 03:33.31 | mheath[laptop] | We have 6 terminals, all of which are in constant use on a busy night |
| 03:33.53 | Sargun | Its internal |
| 03:34.17 | mheath[laptop] | http://www.yum.com/ <--- The POS this company uses? |
| 03:34.32 | HatchEffigy | ~lart the two-party system |
| 03:34.42 | mheath[laptop] | Thats a joke. |
| 03:34.44 | HatchEffigy | heh |
| 03:34.55 | HatchEffigy | one party on each side |
| 03:35.11 | mheath[laptop] | The POS software that a company like KFC or A&W uses can't handle what our company needs. |
| 03:35.23 | HatchEffigy | seems a fair representation (polarization) of what's happening to American politics... |
| 03:35.36 | mheath[laptop] | Our software has a lot of problems, but its a powerful, customizable system |
| 03:35.37 | elg | mheath[laptop]: you have no idea whether it's a joke |
| 03:35.51 | elg | unless you're talking about pos |
| 03:36.24 | mheath[laptop] | elg, What? I'm saying the POS that KFC uses wouldn't be able to handle what we need a POS to do. |
| 03:36.33 | HatchEffigy | yeah, I think mheath's POS tirade is blocking out the other conversation to him... :) |
| 03:36.37 | elg | oh I'll butt out. :) |
| 03:36.57 | elg | how shall I torture the students thiss week? |
| 03:37.04 | *** join/#utah calvarez (n=calvarez@r82h185.res.gatech.edu) |
| 03:37.08 | elg | context free grammars |
| 03:37.17 | mheath[laptop] | Hatch is creeping ahead |
| 03:37.20 | HatchEffigy | piute county just reported with favorable results for Ashdown |
| 03:37.29 | HatchEffigy | oh wiat |
| 03:37.32 | HatchEffigy | nevermind |
| 03:37.37 | mheath[laptop] | No. |
| 03:37.37 | HatchEffigy | they reordered the columns on me |
| 03:37.48 | HatchEffigy | so the current leader is farthest left |
| 03:37.51 | mheath[laptop] | where is Piute county? |
| 03:37.57 | HatchEffigy | that makes it easy to track :/ |
| 03:37.59 | calvarez | HatchEffigy, where are you looking at the recounts? |
| 03:38.12 | calvarez | CFGs are cool btw |
| 03:38.16 | mheath[laptop] | calvarez, http://www.electionresults.utah.gov/xmlData/300009.html |
| 03:38.25 | HatchEffigy | http://www.electionresults.utah.gov/ |
| 03:38.51 | mheath[laptop] | I'm thinking that Ashdown will probably easily fall to somewhere like 40% once we get a lot of results from places other than SLC |
| 03:38.53 | eco | Only 0.58% of districts are reporting. These current counts are pretty much meaningless at that level. |
| 03:39.08 | mheath[laptop] | eco, its warped though |
| 03:39.17 | mheath[laptop] | Obviously a lot of SLC precints are reporting |
| 03:39.25 | eco | Yeah, and there is that. |
| 03:39.33 | mheath[laptop] | but it still shows 0 in the precints column for SLC |
| 03:39.50 | mheath[laptop] | 0.58 is only the 11 box elder and 2 piute |
| 03:40.40 | Sargun | mheath[laptop], Capris |
| 03:40.46 | Sargun | Their POS software is ancient |
| 03:41.00 | calvarez | Ashdown is going downhill from now on ;) |
| 03:41.19 | mheath[laptop] | Sargun, link? |
| 03:41.48 | mheath[laptop] | calvarez, I think he'll do way better than most democrats ever do in Utah, though |
| 03:42.00 | HatchEffigy | heh: http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=626540 |
| 03:42.36 | calvarez | mheath[laptop], you're right |
| 03:42.42 | calvarez | at least in the last 50 yrs |
| 03:42.53 | HatchEffigy | ("heh" in a sad way, that is) |
| 03:42.54 | calvarez | because before, Utah could have been any bluer |
| 03:43.04 | calvarez | s/could/couldn't/ |
| 03:44.14 | HatchEffigy | more SLC reported, Ashdown in lead again |
| 03:44.32 | HatchEffigy | with 53%. SLC "precincts reporting" is still 0 though |
| 03:45.08 | mheath[laptop] | yeah, that push gave him a bit advantage. Like that will last long, though. |
| 03:45.18 | mheath[laptop] | SLC he's WAY ahead now, though |
| 03:45.28 | HatchEffigy | once utah county starts reporting, it'll be over |
| 03:45.40 | ScytheBlade1 | Indeed |
| 03:45.52 | ScytheBlade1 | But considering his budget, that's impressive |
| 03:46.07 | mheath[laptop] | You've still got Ogden though.....Weber County.... |
| 03:46.15 | HatchEffigy | if SLC stays as solid as it is and Davis is favorable though, it might be close |
| 03:46.37 | HatchEffigy | because SLC is like half the precincts in the State. |
| 03:47.09 | mheath[laptop] | Wayne county was overwhelmingly Hatch |
| 03:47.30 | Chadbryant | If Ashdown beats Hatch, I wil do a naked victory lap around my block. |
| 03:47.45 | mheath[laptop] | Haha. |
| 03:47.49 | HatchEffigy | Chadbryant: where do you live... so I can stay away? |
| 03:47.54 | Chadbryant | LOL |
| 03:47.58 | Chadbryant | downtown Salt Lake |
| 03:48.14 | mheath[laptop] | I think theres a change. Slim one, but a chance. Much, much more than any other democrat cantidate in the last 50 years |
| 03:48.41 | HatchEffigy | I wonder if KSL will recant their call for Hatch at any point in the evening? :) |
| 03:49.04 | mheath[laptop] | Hmm. |
| 03:49.05 | Tene | which interesting sequences start with 1 1 3 5 ... |
| 03:49.16 | mheath[laptop] | Iron county now reporting |
| 03:49.20 | mheath[laptop] | with...no votes? |
| 03:49.20 | elg | sounds like that football player in NC won |
| 03:49.24 | elg | he sounds mormon |
| 03:49.27 | Tene | I can't think of it because I keep getting a hash collision with fibonnaci |
| 03:49.30 | calvarez | wow, Ashdown is up! |
| 03:49.30 | Chadbryant | Hatch is so out-of-touch with anything resembling reality, he really needs to lose. |
| 03:49.39 | HatchEffigy | odd numbers with a one prepended? :) |
| 03:49.50 | Chadbryant | Iron County didn't have e-voting |
| 03:49.52 | elg | they just said on CNN he doesn't drink or coffee, tea, smoke. wouldn't campaign on sunday |
| 03:49.56 | elg | he ran as a dem |
| 03:49.57 | Chadbryant | their ballots were chisels on stone tablets |
| 03:50.02 | elg | conservative |
| 03:50.03 | mheath[laptop] | Chadbryant, hah. |
| 03:50.04 | Sargun | o.O |
| 03:50.23 | HatchEffigy | blue dog dem? |
| 03:50.33 | calvarez | Chadbryant, I agree that hatch isn't in touch with technological issues, among other things |
| 03:50.45 | vontrapp | i know that scott evans guy on kbyu |
| 03:50.53 | mheath[laptop] | Morgan is there now, overwhelmingly Hatch |
| 03:51.27 | mheath[laptop] | I wonder if Julian Hatch confused anyone :P |
| 03:51.27 | vontrapp | 5k margin in SLC! |
| 03:51.37 | mheath[laptop] | vontrapp, yeah |
| 03:51.42 | calvarez | how was voting in Utah county, did it work ok? |
| 03:51.44 | vontrapp | well, seeing he's dead last, probably not that much |
| 03:52.00 | vontrapp | i did a provisional ballot (didn't change address) |
| 03:52.11 | vontrapp | so no e-voting for me ;) |
| 03:52.33 | HatchEffigy | calvarez: fine for me. My wife had to do a prov. ballot though. Whe thought she'd re-registered when she renewed her driver's license (with new address), but apparently hadn't |
| 03:52.44 | HatchEffigy | so who knows if her vote will get counted |
| 03:52.53 | calvarez | well, I wanna know how things go in Utah county |
| 03:53.08 | vontrapp | it SHOULD be counted |
| 03:53.48 | HatchEffigy | vontrapp: not if she wasn't registered for the precinct |
| 03:53.57 | ScytheBlade1 | I just want to see percent of precincts reporting for SL County |
| 03:54.18 | vontrapp | you can cast a provisional ballot if you believe you have a right to vote |
| 03:54.19 | HatchEffigy | utah county reporting some |
| 03:54.25 | vontrapp | if it pans out and you do, your vote counts |
| 03:54.35 | vontrapp | i certainly wasn't registered in my precinct |
| 03:54.36 | HatchEffigy | good |
| 03:54.39 | vontrapp | i sure hope it counts |
| 03:54.59 | mheath[laptop] | HatchEffigy, saddlly, reporting that Ashdown is getting crushed. |
| 03:55.26 | mheath[laptop] | I think Weber and Davis will be the pivotal counties |
| 03:55.37 | mheath[laptop] | SL and Utah will kind of cancel each other out |
| 03:56.00 | calvarez | I doubt Ashdown will get much love up in Weber, and especially in Davis |
| 03:56.39 | mheath[laptop] | evening out with new votes |
| 03:57.07 | mheath[laptop] | just jumped from 52% - 43% to ashdown to 48% - 45% to ashdown |
| 03:58.02 | mheath[laptop] | Ashdown is getting crushed everywhere except for SLC |
| 03:58.32 | Chadbryant | how do we start a "secede Salt Lake County from the rest of Utah" campaign? |
| 03:58.34 | vontrapp | my fam is ashamed to in uintah county |
| 03:58.37 | *** join/#utah markl_ (i=mark@mail.knm.org) |
| 03:58.40 | vontrapp | s/in/be in/ |
| 03:58.48 | vontrapp | oops |
| 03:58.59 | calvarez | hmm, so far Cannon is regaining ground |
| 03:59.08 | calvarez | but Mattheson is cleaning house |
| 03:59.45 | calvarez | Chadbryant, why do you want to secede SLC out of Utah? |
| 04:01.44 | vontrapp | 63-31 projection |
| 04:01.51 | HatchEffigy | wow, tooele must have either really small precincts or really bad turnout |
| 04:01.52 | vontrapp | pshhh |
| 04:02.11 | HatchEffigy | 2 precints reporting for a total of 21 votes |
| 04:02.17 | vontrapp | it doens't get all the votes for a county at once |
| 04:02.33 | HatchEffigy | but it should get all the votes for the precinct at once, no? |
| 04:02.45 | vontrapp | eh yaeh, probably |
| 04:02.47 | HatchEffigy | (btw, I'm still waiting to be set on fire) |
| 04:03.07 | mheath[laptop] | ~flame HatchEffigy |
| 04:03.08 | ibot | HatchEffigy, YOU SUCK. And you know it. |
| 04:03.13 | Chadbryant | nobody voted in Tooele |
| 04:03.16 | Chadbryant | Tooele has "free meth night" on Tuesdays |
| 04:03.20 | HatchEffigy | that's better |
| 04:03.26 | HatchEffigy | lol |
| 04:04.19 | vontrapp | go davis!! |
| 04:04.29 | HatchEffigy | dang, hatch just took the lead again :( |
| 04:04.38 | vontrapp | ah crap |
| 04:04.41 | HatchEffigy | why you cheering davis, vontrapp ? |
| 04:04.42 | mheath[laptop] | vontrapp, what? I think you fell victim to the switched columns syndrome |
| 04:04.43 | vontrapp | it swaps it around on me :( |
| 04:04.49 | HatchEffigy | you get caught by the switching columns too? |
| 04:04.58 | ScytheBlade1 | I just about did, heh |
| 04:05.01 | mheath[laptop] | Settle down |
| 04:05.07 | mheath[laptop] | 8 out of 220 precints |
| 04:05.16 | ScytheBlade1 | And it's already 2:1 |
| 04:05.19 | ScytheBlade1 | That's not a good sign ;) |
| 04:05.40 | HatchEffigy | I still want to know why SLC and UC have no "precincts reporting" numbers |
| 04:05.46 | calvarez | Hatch up again ;) |
| 04:05.57 | HatchEffigy | ~lart calvarez |
| 04:06.06 | mheath[laptop] | I think Fox13 is looking off the same form with the broken precints number. |
| 04:06.08 | vontrapp | well apparently salt lake still just has the phantom precincts |
| 04:06.14 | mheath[laptop] | they seem really confused about precints reporting |
| 04:06.15 | vontrapp | so there's a lot more salt lake coming |
| 04:06.18 | calvarez | HatchEffigy, I think you're against freedom of speech |
| 04:06.25 | mheath[laptop] | And I like that I'm looking at info more current than the news |
| 04:06.39 | calvarez | I may need to recur to ACLU because you caused me "mental distress" |
| 04:06.45 | HatchEffigy | calvarez: just the freedom of *your* speech :) |
| 04:06.58 | calvarez | thus, against freedom of speech in general |
| 04:07.31 | HatchEffigy | but *I* get to say whatever *I* want. So *I* have freedom of speech, don't I? That's all the really matters... |
| 04:08.41 | elg | cnn is calling the house for dems |
| 04:08.43 | Chadbryant | the First Amendment protects even the things you disagree with |
| 04:08.48 | vontrapp | i can say anyone who winks at hatch is as gay is he is |
| 04:08.51 | vontrapp | that's my right |
| 04:09.05 | HatchEffigy | sigh... stupid bill of rights |
| 04:09.14 | Sargun | link? |
| 04:09.20 | elg | cnn |
| 04:09.34 | HatchEffigy | (p.s... am I staying in character well?) |
| 04:09.42 | Sargun | notice what 9 is: http://www.google.com/trends?q=dhillon |
| 04:09.47 | elg | they're not calling the senate yet. I'm hoping it splits. republican in one, senate in the other |
| 04:10.07 | Sargun | Notice where I live, and what my last name is |
| 04:10.59 | mheath[laptop] | Ashdown keeps falling behind :) |
| 04:11.02 | mheath[laptop] | erm :( |
| 04:11.30 | mheath[laptop] | Down to 53% 40% to Ashdown |
| 04:12.04 | mheath[laptop] | Pity so many votes were wasted on small parties. they're thrown away, and could have been for Ashdown. |
| 04:12.17 | Sargun | When does information about the bills come in? |
| 04:12.39 | HatchEffigy | http://www.electionresults.utah.gov/xmlData/300567.html for CA1 |
| 04:12.51 | HatchEffigy | about 60% yes right now |
| 04:12.57 | Sargun | Yay! |
| 04:13.52 | vontrapp | instead of paying all that money for broken voting machines they should use it for free ice cream at the polling locations |
| 04:14.00 | HatchEffigy | can't find the other one (the sales tax for rail one) |
| 04:14.22 | mheath[laptop] | HatchEffigy, what is CA1? |
| 04:14.49 | HatchEffigy | constitutional amendment 1 |
| 04:14.59 | mheath[laptop] | 54% / 39% to Hatch :( |
| 04:15.11 | mheath[laptop] | HatchEffigy, which was? |
| 04:15.57 | mheath[laptop] | ~praise Carbon county |
| 04:15.58 | ibot | All hail Carbon county! |
| 04:16.23 | vontrapp | something about not taxing worthless property |
| 04:16.28 | vontrapp | (CA1) |
| 04:16.31 | HatchEffigy | to authorize the legislature to create laws exempting entities from property tax (on non-real property) if the amount of tax collected would be negligible |
| 04:16.49 | *** join/#utah spig (n=spig@spig.net) |
| 04:16.54 | HatchEffigy | I think the bill that rides behind the amendment defines "negligible" as $2,500 |
| 04:16.56 | vontrapp | since i didn't read it i don't trust their ethereal portrayal of it on the ballot, i voted no |
| 04:16.58 | Sargun | vontrapp, At a polling location near me they had popcorn with the republican logo on them. |
| 04:17.00 | HatchEffigy | erm, $3,500 (typo) |
| 04:17.18 | mheath[laptop] | More votes trickling in |
| 04:17.56 | HatchEffigy | vontrapp: I read it, it pretty much just addresses an oversight in the consitutional text regarding already existing property tax exemptions. voted yes (though why property taxes are addressed in the state *constitution*, I don't know) |
| 04:18.00 | calvarez | 54/39 Hatch :) |
| 04:18.15 | calvarez | Hatch's gonna dance on Ashdown's tumb |
| 04:18.21 | calvarez | ;) |
| 04:18.32 | ScytheBlade1 | Well duh |
| 04:18.33 | HatchEffigy | what's a tumb? |
| 04:18.58 | HatchEffigy | we haven't had any new numbers from SLC for a while, keep the dream alive! :) |
| 04:19.30 | mheath[laptop] | Weber is Hatch |
| 04:19.39 | mheath[laptop] | but not nearly as overwhelmingly as most other counties |
| 04:19.58 | mheath[laptop] | SLC and Iron County are the only two for Ashdown |
| 04:20.07 | HatchEffigy | and carbon |
| 04:20.17 | HatchEffigy | and iron is for hatch |
| 04:21.06 | mheath[laptop] | erm, I misread. I meant carbon |
| 04:21.19 | vontrapp | iron chef? |
| 04:21.27 | mheath[laptop] | New updates. He keeps falling behind :( |
| 04:21.32 | elg | dumbest cooking show on earth |
| 04:21.38 | *** join/#utah el_gaucho (n=bigdog@zeus.thebigdog.biz) |
| 04:22.16 | *** join/#utah mentax (n=IceChat7@62.33.62.5) |
| 04:22.24 | maquis | wow... |
| 04:22.30 | mentax | HI ALL |
| 04:22.35 | Sargun | maquis, hi. |
| 04:22.35 | el_gazpacho | 'lo |
| 04:22.41 | maquis | http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2006/pages/results/states/UT/S/01/epolls.0.html |
| 04:22.52 | maquis | check out the "votes by race" section... that's kinda disturbing |
| 04:23.02 | Sargun | lol |
| 04:23.15 | *** join/#utah linuxalien (i=linuxali@gateway/tor/x-6ff4666d1e37dd86) |
| 04:24.08 | vontrapp | maquis: where? |
| 04:24.34 | mheath[laptop] | Vote by income: |
| 04:24.38 | el_gazpacho | wow, on the "Vote by Income", for income $200,000+ |
| 04:24.46 | mheath[laptop] | $100-150,000 (17%) |
| 04:24.51 | maquis | vontrapp: look at the link |
| 04:25.18 | mheath[laptop] | WTF? |
| 04:25.24 | mheath[laptop] | Why did 13% of people who identify as Democrat say they'd vote for Hatch? |
| 04:25.34 | el_gazpacho | so 30% of those responding to exit polls make 100K+? |
| 04:25.38 | mheath[laptop] | Majority of Independent said Ashdown :) |
| 04:25.45 | maquis | 82% of people over the age of 18 in utah are married |
| 04:26.04 | mheath[laptop] | WOW |
| 04:26.12 | mheath[laptop] | heres something thats really interesting to me, actually |
| 04:26.24 | mheath[laptop] | erm, nevermind...misread. |
| 04:26.42 | el_gaucho | that most people think bush is handling his job? |
| 04:26.43 | maquis | wow.... married people are more likely to vote for hatch than unmarried people |
| 04:26.44 | calvarez | maquis, when it comes to race, I've noticed that, in many instances, government will group Hispanics under the "white" race |
| 04:26.55 | maquis | calvarez: but they have a section for hispanics |
| 04:27.18 | maquis | if utah was all unmarried, ashdown would've won |
| 04:27.30 | calvarez | so, since the largest minority in Utah is Hispanic, adding those two groups together does account for close to 100% |
| 04:28.02 | calvarez | yea, but maybe it's there because other states group Hispanics differently, and CNN made their categories more general |
| 04:28.17 | Chadbryant | according to the U.S. Census, Hispanics can be white or black |
| 04:28.20 | calvarez | I don't think they're trying to under- or misrepresent Hispanics and other minorities there |
| 04:28.22 | mheath[laptop] | Seems their fixing the precints reporting info on the Senate race page |
| 04:28.25 | el_gazpacho | oh, SLC has a precincts reporting number now |
| 04:28.33 | mheath[laptop] | SLC shows 79 / 985 reporting |
| 04:28.46 | calvarez | Chadbryant, true, especially since there are many Hispanic countries with high percentages of black people |
| 04:29.00 | Chadbryant | Dominicans are Hispanic, and black |
| 04:29.06 | calvarez | nevertheless, those usually identify themeselves racially as blacks |
| 04:29.09 | Chadbryant | many Cubans are Hispanic & black as well |
| 04:29.38 | calvarez | but neither Dominicans nor Cubans constitute the majority of Hispanics in Utah |
| 04:29.44 | calvarez | that'd be the case in Florida |
| 04:29.52 | Chadbryant | if you've filled out a EEOC form lately, you can specify Hispanic/non-Hispanic on top of white/black/etc. |
| 04:30.02 | calvarez | in Utah is predominantly Mexican, with some Southamericans |
| 04:30.50 | mheath[laptop] | Heh, I could say I'm American Indian. |
| 04:30.51 | mheath[laptop] | I'm just under the blood percentage to go to the reservation and register, though =P |
| 04:30.53 | calvarez | I say I'm white when it comes to race, but Hispanic when it comes to ethnicity |
| 04:31.17 | lukfugl | dem are currently in the lead in the senate overall, according to CNN |
| 04:31.33 | calvarez | in many cases, it;s hard to identify race among Hispanics (leaving the nationalities you mentioned earlier, Chadbryant) |
| 04:31.37 | maquis | hmmm... does adoption count? |
| 04:32.09 | Chadbryant | Senate is 48-46 Dems, at my last refresh of cnn.com |
| 04:32.15 | mheath[laptop] | Chadbryant, what tribe are you? |
| 04:32.42 | Chadbryant | Seminole/Cherokee by birth, BIA card says Cherokee |
| 04:33.19 | calvarez | 58/37 |
| 04:33.27 | calvarez | 58/35, sorry |
| 04:33.33 | lukfugl | utah county is 20% Ashdown so far, which is pretty good for a dem down here |
| 04:34.01 | maquis | why is there such a disparity between votes from single people and votes from married people? |
| 04:34.04 | maquis | (in utah) |
| 04:34.17 | mheath[laptop] | Chadbryant, I'm a very small percentage Cherokee. |
| 04:34.27 | calvarez | hmm, numbers for precints in SLC and Utah county |
| 04:34.30 | Chadbryant | my father was full Seminole |
| 04:34.37 | Chadbryant | my mother was 3/4 Cherokee |
| 04:35.10 | lukfugl | maquis: I'm guessing age |
| 04:35.17 | calvarez | interesting, moderates in Utah favored Hatch |
| 04:35.19 | vontrapp | maquis, because the mentality of "go get married for the heck of itt" matches het menatliy tof "go vote democratic for the heck of it" |
| 04:35.25 | *** part/#utah el_gaucho (n=bigdog@zeus.thebigdog.biz) |
| 04:35.25 | lukfugl | only 13% between 18-29 |
| 04:35.26 | calvarez | yea, maquis, age most likely |
| 04:35.31 | vontrapp | s/democratic/republican/ |
| 04:35.40 | lukfugl | and in Utah, if you're not married by 28... ;) |
| 04:35.42 | mheath[laptop] | Chadbryant, heh, I'm only 1/16 Cherokee :P |
| 04:35.51 | maquis | but the age one didn't show as noticeable of a distinction |
| 04:35.58 | calvarez | vontrapp, interesting remark |
| 04:36.22 | calvarez | vontrapp, do you make a lot of important life decisions "for the heck of it"? |
| 04:36.31 | vontrapp | calvarez: i don't |
| 04:36.48 | calvarez | would you mind explaining then? |
| 04:36.50 | vontrapp | i vote ashdown, and married my wife cause she's the awesomest |
| 04:37.07 | calvarez | I would like to know people who marries "for the heck of it". |
| 04:37.29 | calvarez | I went to BYU, a place with a high percentage of married undergraduates, and I didn't find any |
| 04:37.30 | vontrapp | calverez, i think a lot of people in utah get married because of social pressure (for the heck of it) and also vote republican for the very same reason |
| 04:37.53 | calvarez | funny enough, I didn't meet many of those either |
| 04:38.17 | Chadbryant | mheath[laptop]: so you're white :) |
| 04:38.38 | lukfugl | ~curse SLC |
| 04:38.45 | ibot | May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, SLC ! |
| 04:38.50 | lukfugl | it's evening out in the only county where we had a chance :( |
| 04:38.51 | mheath[laptop] | Chadbryant, yep. |
| 04:39.27 | vontrapp | calvarez: they're not going to go around saying they got married for the heck of it |
| 04:39.47 | maquis | calvarez: i know someone who ran off to vegas and eloped because she felt like it |
| 04:39.52 | vontrapp | but it does mean they jump at the first chance they get |
| 04:40.04 | maquis | i'll agree with vontrapp on that, too |
| 04:40.07 | vontrapp | not that it's bad |
| 04:40.08 | calvarez | vontrapp, and, if you don't mind me saying so, most people who try to portray the opposite will simply start a reply with: "well, I heard of a bishop that did this..." |
| 04:40.59 | calvarez | against a large group, that is |
| 04:41.08 | vontrapp | it's just that those who are more careful and don't marry until later and they've met someone who they just CAN'T not marry are those who are also going to be more careful voting |
| 04:41.38 | lukfugl | calvarez: I can't comment on how many marriages in Utah are "for the heck of it", but I would guess (hope) it's low. But there *is* that social pressure in this state (Utah County especially). I know because I've witnessed and experienced it firsthand |
| 04:41.45 | calvarez | hmm, I don't believe in the connection between waiting and being careful |
| 04:41.51 | vontrapp | and, in utah, not careful in voting == voting republican (and i don't mean voting republican is careless, just that those who vote 'status quo' vote republican because that is 'status quo') |
| 04:42.38 | calvarez | lukfugl, there is pressure, yes, to stay focused. There are too many people who push the whole marriage idea to the backburner. That does not equal "being careful" |
| 04:42.45 | vontrapp | oh well, it wasn't all that serious a remark anyway, just meant to be intriguing, i think age is the more relevent thing there |
| 04:43.12 | calvarez | vontrapp, I don't vow for the Republican party, so I don't take issue with that last statement |
| 04:43.19 | maquis | calvarez: there's also a lot of pressure to go get married right away |
| 04:43.24 | calvarez | but I do contend the "careful" concept, I believe it is an unfounded association |
| 04:43.35 | calvarez | maquis, again, I disagree |
| 04:43.54 | maquis | calvarez: perhaps not as much among the guys |
| 04:43.56 | vontrapp | i'm not saying to wait is to be careful, or to marry soon is the opposite |
| 04:44.30 | vontrapp | just that, statistically speaking, people who give into pressures more will marry right away more than people who don't |
| 04:44.45 | maquis | i've seen girls who felt very much like socially they needed to go get married, or else something was terribly wrong with them |
| 04:45.02 | calvarez | I agree that 1) there is social pressure to not push marriage into the backburner just to "have fun" (see: NCMO), 2) there is a misconception that people think people that don't marry is because they're not looking (I know people for which this is the case) |
| 04:45.05 | elg | girls also tend to give more weight to social pressures |
| 04:45.13 | maquis | elg: yeah... |
| 04:45.31 | calvarez | and 3) there is a misconception that most people who don't want to get married for a while is because they're being careful |
| 04:45.54 | calvarez | I think neither of these 3 ideas is a fair generalization |
| 04:46.02 | vontrapp | could be that women vote strongly republican here, and the poor saps who are married to them just follow suit |
| 04:46.16 | maquis | calvarez: i'm not going to claim that all people who postpone marriage are doing so because they're careful, nor that all people who go into it quickly are doing so because of carelessness |
| 04:46.29 | calvarez | neither do I |
| 04:46.32 | vontrapp | maquis: exactly what i said |
| 04:46.34 | calvarez | neitehr I assume the opposite |
| 04:46.45 | maquis | vontrapp: sure... but the unmarried women voted the same as the unmarried men |
| 04:46.59 | vontrapp | stop shooting holes in my theories!! |
| 04:47.03 | maquis | calvarez: i'm just saying that it does happen... and more-so in utah than elsewhere |
| 04:47.04 | Sargun | Heh. |
| 04:47.19 | lukfugl | ~shoot von's theories |
| 04:47.25 | ibot | ACTION shoots von's theories in the head with a cork gun! |
| 04:47.25 | calvarez | and again, I mean this in a very impersonal and general way: many use the idea of carefulness as rationalization to "hang out" |
| 04:47.25 | maquis | s/utah/lds communities |
| 04:47.43 | calvarez | maquis, I'd say Utah more than LDS communities outside anyways |
| 04:47.56 | maquis | calvarez: sure... but it happens a lot in LDS communities outside too |
| 04:47.57 | lukfugl | maquis: though it is a section of LDS culture, I can attest that it's stronger in Utah than outside Utah |
| 04:48.15 | calvarez | there, lukfugl got it :) |
| 04:48.34 | maquis | lukfugl: sure... but i had a summer a couple years back where all but one of the girls in one year in my ward got married within 3 months |
| 04:48.36 | vontrapp | my wife knows someone in california (mormon) who is a prime example |
| 04:48.41 | vontrapp | so it's not limited to utah |
| 04:48.52 | Sargun | ~california |
| 04:48.54 | ibot | [california] Psychic spies from China try to steal your mind's elation |
| 04:49.08 | lukfugl | wha? |
| 04:49.11 | elg | california is an extension of utah |
| 04:49.12 | elg | or vice verse |
| 04:49.14 | ScytheBlade1 | Lyrics |
| 04:49.29 | lukfugl | ibot, what's that mean? |
| 04:49.31 | lukfugl | oh |
| 04:50.36 | ScytheBlade1 | Sudden urge to listen to said song |
| 04:50.36 | calvarez | hmm, it's interesting to know that, regarding income, the extremes favored Ashdown more, while closer to the median Hatch reigns |
| 04:50.46 | lukfugl | ScytheBlade1: what song is it? |
| 04:51.02 | ScytheBlade1 | lukfugl, (what a name you have, lol) - Red Hot Chili Peppers - Californication |
| 04:51.10 | lukfugl | ah |
| 04:51.19 | calvarez | hmm, RHCP went downhill |
| 04:51.25 | calvarez | they used to be good |
| 04:51.31 | lukfugl | and regarding my name (nick), it's a long story :) |
| 04:51.36 | calvarez | now their music ain't that great |
| 04:51.54 | calvarez | Californication is ok, but it can be handpicked from a bunch of lower quality art |
| 04:52.13 | lukfugl | while I enjoy some of their songs, I never really cared for their music on the whole |
| 04:52.30 | mheath[laptop] | Wow. When did Utah start hosting on their websites on Sun hardware? |
| 04:52.47 | calvarez | ack! |
| 04:52.48 | lukfugl | mheath[laptop]: you just notice the favicon? :) |
| 04:53.03 | mheath[laptop] | lukfugl, no, I've noticed it all night. I was just commenting on it. |
| 04:53.32 | lukfugl | calvarez: was that an ACK/NACK ack, or an expression of surprise? |
| 04:56.31 | vontrapp | auhgg, idiots voting for proposition 3! |
| 04:56.49 | lukfugl | vontrapp: that the 0.25% sales tax prop? |
| 04:57.07 | vontrapp | si |
| 04:57.16 | lukfugl | why the condemnation? |
| 04:57.18 | maquis | gah |
| 04:57.23 | vontrapp | it's so vague |
| 04:57.26 | mheath[laptop] | vontrapp, yeah, because of the stupid radio ads |
| 04:57.37 | vontrapp | let us increase your taxes and we may use it for transportation!! |
| 04:57.56 | mheath[laptop] | I had someone at my work talking about how they were ready to vote for it, and it isn't even on the ballot here in Weber. |
| 04:58.12 | lukfugl | vontrapp: reading the text of the proposition, it's pretty well hooked to transportation spending. just no particular projects (the vague part) |
| 04:58.12 | vontrapp | did you check the backside? |
| 04:58.36 | lukfugl | and I never heard the radio ads (my car radio is on the fritz) |
| 04:58.38 | maquis | *grumble* |
| 04:58.43 | lukfugl | vontrapp: backside? |
| 04:58.51 | vontrapp | of the ballot |
| 04:58.54 | vontrapp | that's where it was |
| 04:59.02 | lukfugl | computer voting, no backside |
| 04:59.18 | vontrapp | oh yeah, "e-voting" |
| 04:59.39 | nick125 | e-voting...eww |
| 04:59.39 | lukfugl | but I read it in the "Voter Information Guide", or whatever that's called |
| 04:59.58 | nick125 | they've moved completely back to paper ballets here in NM |
| 05:00.12 | vontrapp | yay nm |
| 05:00.15 | lukfugl | yay nm |
| 05:00.24 | vontrapp | although it is kind of sad they use markers that can dry up |
| 05:00.31 | vontrapp | #2 pencils all the way |
| 05:00.42 | lukfugl | NM home, that is |
| 05:00.52 | vontrapp | but in nm you can't vote ashdown |
| 05:00.59 | lukfugl | vontrapp: true |
| 05:01.54 | vontrapp | gah, website keeps reloading the images with each refresh |
| 05:02.04 | vontrapp | wonder why that is... |
| 05:02.15 | vontrapp | shouldn't it cache the images? |
| 05:02.26 | lukfugl | man, Ashdown only has a 142 vote margin in SLC now |
| 05:02.30 | Sargun | Who here likes kids? |
| 05:02.41 | Sargun | (little ones <6) |
| 05:02.53 | Sargun | lukfugl, How can you stand them? |
| 05:02.59 | mheath[laptop] | lukfugl, still only 255 / 985 precints reporting, be patient |
| 05:03.12 | mheath[laptop] | Sargun, YOU'RE a kid |
| 05:03.15 | mheath[laptop] | we can't stand you. |
| 05:03.20 | nick125 | haha :p |
| 05:03.27 | Sargun | mheath[laptop], ok? |
| 05:03.30 | mheath[laptop] | (I'm a kid, too, and they can't stand me) |
| 05:03.32 | Sargun | Who here cannot stand me? |
| 05:03.34 | lukfugl | Sargun: what mheath[laptop] said :) I hated them when I was younger too |
| 05:03.34 | Sargun | heh |
| 05:03.42 | vontrapp | could be a lot of pro-ashdowners voted non-e |
| 05:03.47 | *** join/#utah Newsome (n=sorenson@adsl-75-0-136-70.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net) |
| 05:04.04 | lukfugl | and I'll probably hate them again when I'm a crotchety old fart. But for now I can stand them |
| 05:04.07 | nick125 | if anyone here gets a chance to, watch Hacking Democracy |
| 05:04.11 | Sargun | Where can I get an off switch for them? |
| 05:04.41 | nick125 | its on google video |
| 05:04.50 | mheath[laptop] | If I was to run for Senate..I'd spend as much of my time as possible doing door-to-door visits of as many people as possible.. |
| 05:08.09 | Sargun | mheath[laptop], then you would spend all your time losing. |
| 05:08.47 | mheath[laptop] | Sargun, why do you say that? |
| 05:08.52 | mheath[laptop] | In Utah, a lot of the voters are older |
| 05:09.22 | mheath[laptop] | and they habitually vote republican. They don't really know or care who they're voting for, they just hit republican by reflex |
| 05:09.43 | Sargun | How many houses could you hit in let say |
| 05:09.47 | Sargun | 6 hours a day |
| 05:09.55 | Sargun | for 250 days a year? |
| 05:10.06 | lukfugl | assuming roughly equal sized precincts and that the rest of the state will follow the trends of their currently reported precincts, salt lake county will need to swing to more than 86% pro-Ashdown for Ashdown to win the race |
| 05:10.51 | lukfugl | and it's currently only 50% |
| 05:10.55 | mheath[laptop] | Sargun, you target certain areas based on trends. |
| 05:12.28 | lukfugl | hmmm, let me refine that. I didn't actually project the final vote totals in each non-SL county, I just extended the non-SL total by percentage. |
| 05:15.19 | mheath[laptop] | Time to sleep. |
| 05:18.08 | Sargun | night |
| 05:22.32 | calvarez | it seems that Bishop, Mattheson and Cannon are going to the house |
| 05:23.37 | calvarez | mheath[laptop], I know people should put more thought and research into it, but I think to a large bet Republicans do represent the ideals of most people in Utah |
| 05:23.45 | calvarez | at least in social/moral issues |
| 05:24.27 | calvarez | to me, abortion is an important topic, and I don't think I'll find many pro-choice Republicans and pro-life Democrats |
| 05:24.33 | calvarez | candidates, that is |
| 05:24.52 | calvarez | so, I always start by analyzing the Republicans candidates |
| 05:25.04 | calvarez | and see if I find things that are too abhorrent about them |
| 05:25.19 | lukfugl | calvarez: on issues like abortion, you'll find Ashdown just as conservative as Hatch |
| 05:25.19 | calvarez | and then I'll weigh them against the Democrat ones |
| 05:25.23 | calvarez | nah he isn't |
| 05:25.58 | lukfugl | calvarez: http://www.peteashdown.org/issues/abortion.html |
| 05:26.00 | vontrapp | i'm glad hatch isn't "too abhorrent" to you |
| 05:26.16 | calvarez | lukfugl, I did, and I spoke to him personally about the issue |
| 05:26.21 | calvarez | he's pro-choice |
| 05:26.46 | vontrapp | he's pro-not-getting-the-feds-involved |
| 05:26.58 | calvarez | you know the typical; I'll-never-recommend-abortion-but-I-don't-think-I-can-impose-my-beliefs-... spill |
| 05:27.06 | lukfugl | vontrapp: exactly |
| 05:27.20 | lukfugl | not the same thing as "pro-choice" |
| 05:27.22 | calvarez | vontrapp, I think that hardly that constitutes a 3rd option |
| 05:27.24 | calvarez | it is |
| 05:27.33 | calvarez | there is no 3rd option |
| 05:27.35 | lukfugl | calvarez: then I must be pro-choice |
| 05:27.39 | lukfugl | by your definition |
| 05:27.40 | calvarez | either you support a ban or you don't |
| 05:27.44 | lukfugl | though I wouldn't call myself that |
| 05:27.52 | maquis | lukfugl: i don't think ashdown has much of a chance of actually winning |
| 05:28.18 | maquis | but i think he does have a chance of getting a high-enough percentage that it might catch hatch's attention |
| 05:28.30 | lukfugl | calvarez: I wasn't aware banning abortion was the only sensible pro-life position |
| 05:28.39 | calvarez | lukfugl, if you don't support a ban, then it means you don't want to restrict people's choices. If you don't want to get feds involved, it means that you don't want the feds to hinder people's choices. Tomato, tomato, it's called "pro-choice" |
| 05:28.40 | tensai | maquis: hatch pays attention to people named Benjamin ;) |
| 05:28.58 | calvarez | lukfugl, the issue of abortion is not about your own personal feelings about abortion |
| 05:29.03 | calvarez | it never has been |
| 05:29.15 | calvarez | almost nobody likes the idea of abortion |
| 05:29.37 | calvarez | the issue is whether a ban should be imposed or not, and what limitations the ban should have |
| 05:29.44 | calvarez | (or shouldn't) |
| 05:29.50 | calvarez | I don't think the issue can be diversified |
| 05:29.59 | calvarez | not legitimatly, at least |
| 05:30.17 | calvarez | not-supporting-abortion-but-opposing-a-ban IS being pro-choice |
| 05:30.45 | lukfugl | calvarez: *shrug* ok, then. under your philosophy I'm pro-choice then. I don't think that (my and Ashdown's position) is out of line with LDS values |
| 05:30.45 | calvarez | being pro-choice isn't about encouraging people to abort |
| 05:30.58 | calvarez | lukfugl, I have not said that is the case |
| 05:31.01 | Chadbryant | I don't particularly like abortion |
| 05:31.12 | Chadbryant | but God didn't see fit to give me a vagina & ovaries |
| 05:31.16 | Chadbryant | so guess what? |
| 05:31.23 | Chadbryant | it's really not my call |
| 05:31.31 | calvarez | I didn't say pro-choice means non-good-LDS |
| 05:32.10 | Sargun | Pro-choice is winning in california! |
| 05:32.11 | lukfugl | calvarez: I'm not saying you did. But you were implying that the Republican ticket is more in line with LDS values. I'm saying that for at least a good portion of those values, that's not necessarily the case |
| 05:32.40 | calvarez | Chadbryant, I don't have a gun, so I guess it is not my call to tell people when and how they can use a gun. Maybe some people see no other choice than using a gun to get away with things. I don't believe I can impose my own views on whether people should use a gun against law officers or not. |
| 05:32.52 | calvarez | see? the argument is just as significant |
| 05:33.21 | calvarez | btw, I don't subscribe that view, I was using it as an example |
| 05:33.56 | Chadbryant | I need a license to drive a car |
| 05:34.05 | Chadbryant | I should need a license to own a gun |
| 05:34.19 | calvarez | why? |
| 05:34.21 | Chadbryant | I have to prove that I can operate a car safely |
| 05:34.32 | calvarez | so, people should prove they can have sex responsibly? |
| 05:34.32 | Chadbryant | I should have to prove that I can operate a gun safely |
| 05:34.37 | calvarez | mmm, interesting argument |
| 05:34.41 | Chadbryant | it's common sense |
| 05:34.58 | calvarez | ok then, license to have sex? |
| 05:35.11 | Chadbryant | there is that "well regulated" part of the Second Amendment, after all |
| 05:35.29 | lukfugl | calvarez: Chadbryant never mentioned sex. stop strawmanning him |
| 05:36.26 | calvarez | lukfugl, I wasn't necesarrily implying he was saying that, I was showing how his comparison didn't apply while mine does |
| 05:36.27 | Chadbryant | hey, if a license would keep Britney Spears from geting knocked up, or Kevin Federline from fathering another future drug addict, I'd have to consider it |
| 05:37.34 | calvarez | the point is, I don't think having a vagina and ovaries entitles a person to make a call with regards to the life of someone else |
| 05:38.16 | Chadbryant | if that life is wholly dependent on someone else's, I most certainly think it does |
| 05:38.34 | calvarez | so, I can kill my child? they're totally dependent on me |
| 05:38.43 | Chadbryant | I'm not a woman |
| 05:38.57 | nick125 | hahaha someone in PA took one of the e-voting machines and smashed the screen out with a paperweight |
| 05:38.59 | calvarez | so a woman should be free to kill a 2 yr old (certainly dependent age) |
| 05:39.06 | Chadbryant | so I can't tell a woman what she can do with her body |
| 05:39.24 | Chadbryant | I realize that puts me at odds with the majority of chauvinist males in Utah, but that's how it is |
| 05:39.28 | calvarez | Chadbryant, I don't have a problem with what a woman does with her body or not, as long as the fetus is spared |
| 05:39.42 | calvarez | s/fetus/life of the fetus/ |
| 05:40.13 | calvarez | and his/her physical integrity as well |
| 05:40.32 | calvarez | just as much as a 2 yr old cannot be legally killed or severed by a mother |
| 05:40.35 | Chadbryant | I would prefer that a woman carry a child to term and give it up for adoption |
| 05:40.43 | calvarez | I do too |
| 05:41.03 | Chadbryant | but it would me mysoginistic of me to expect a woman who has been raped or victimized by incest to do so |
| 05:41.04 | calvarez | *and* I don't think a woman can terminate that life while in the womb |
| 05:41.13 | Chadbryant | er, be |
| 05:41.43 | calvarez | Chadbryant, this is a personal opinion, but I don't think that the fetus has to pay the price |
| 05:41.52 | Chadbryant | and many of the anti-abortion activists (whether they would be honest enough to admit to it or not) would outlaw abortion in *any* situation |
| 05:42.00 | calvarez | you know? things happen, and I don't mean this lightly |
| 05:42.34 | Chadbryant | I think you would disagree if you were a woan |
| 05:42.35 | calvarez | but I don't think the eventuality of such horrendous thing justifies commiting another horrendous act |
| 05:42.37 | Chadbryant | er, woman |
| 05:42.49 | *** join/#utah vex (i=nwood@stutter.prohosting.com) |
| 05:43.04 | calvarez | woulda coulda |
| 05:43.24 | Chadbryant | the fact remains that you are not a woman |
| 05:43.26 | Chadbryant | and neither am I |
| 05:43.27 | calvarez | I still think that being a woman does not entitle someone to be less concerned with the value of human life |
| 05:43.30 | vontrapp | wha? slc is now ahead hatch :( |
| 05:43.39 | Chadbryant | and women do not need men to tell them what they can or acn not do with their bodies |
| 05:43.47 | calvarez | Chadbryant, and I think that fact is totally irrelevant |
| 05:44.10 | Chadbryant | no, it isn't |
| 05:44.19 | calvarez | the fact that I am not Iraqi does not prevent me from having an opinion that Iraqi children should be protected |
| 05:44.25 | Chadbryant | reproduction and giving birth is a woman's choice |
| 05:44.30 | calvarez | is it? |
| 05:44.45 | calvarez | again, what about the fetus? |
| 05:44.48 | Chadbryant | in regards to what happens to her body? |
| 05:44.51 | Chadbryant | absolutely |
| 05:44.56 | calvarez | fetus != her body |
| 05:45.03 | Chadbryant | the fetus is wholly dependent on the woman's body |
| 05:45.07 | Chadbryant | it is part of her |
| 05:45.15 | calvarez | I don't think so |
| 05:45.22 | Chadbryant | you can disagree with her choice all you like |
| 05:45.33 | calvarez | I can disagree with her non-choice, true |
| 05:45.37 | Chadbryant | but you can not tell her what she can or can not do with her body |
| 05:45.39 | calvarez | with the inexistent choice |
| 05:45.44 | Chadbryant | this is 2006 |
| 05:45.48 | Chadbryant | not the 1950s |
| 05:45.54 | Chadbryant | she is not your property |
| 05:45.55 | calvarez | no, but I believe I can vote for measures that tell her she can't |
| 05:46.06 | calvarez | again, you see the issue as a "her body" issue |
| 05:46.16 | calvarez | I see it as a "her body and the fetus' body" |
| 05:46.30 | Chadbryant | because it is her body |
| 05:46.35 | calvarez | I disagree |
| 05:46.50 | levi_home | I hereby declare my research paper 'good enough'. Whew. |
| 05:46.59 | Chadbryant | and that's your right |
| 05:47.09 | Chadbryant | but you don't have the right to dictate the choice of a woman |
| 05:47.10 | calvarez | why should dependency define composition? |
| 05:47.25 | Chadbryant | the SCOTUS has decided that |
| 05:47.41 | lukfugl | levi_home: I'd go back to the paper if I were you |
| 05:47.53 | calvarez | Chadbryant, do you think you have the right to support laws against cop killing? |
| 05:48.02 | levi_home | The SCOTUS has decided some rather shady things in the past, too. I wouldn't go basing my morals on their judgement. |
| 05:48.16 | calvarez | do you have the right to dictate at whom a gun can be fired at? |
| 05:48.17 | Chadbryant | what does cop killing have to do with a woman's right to choose? |
| 05:48.33 | calvarez | the fact that it's someone else's choice too (the gunner's) |
| 05:48.44 | Chadbryant | the strawman you're building would go nicely with my neighbour's corn |
| 05:49.00 | calvarez | good |
| 05:49.15 | calvarez | please provide reasons of why it is a strawman and I'll debunk them |
| 05:49.23 | calvarez | in the meantime, I'll say this: |
| 05:49.36 | calvarez | laws are limits people impose on other people's choices |
| 05:49.48 | Chadbryant | because you are comparing the murder of a public official to a woman's right to choose what she does with her body |
| 05:49.56 | calvarez | you can't drive on the left side of the road, you can't avoid paying taxes, etc |
| 05:50.06 | calvarez | on very specific grounds, true |
| 05:50.17 | calvarez | not in a loose sense or as appeal to sentiment |
| 05:50.35 | levi_home | "Your right to swing your fist ends..." etc. |
| 05:50.41 | calvarez | but as an illustration on how laws are simply limts put by people on other people's choices |
| 05:50.58 | calvarez | therefore, the argument that I can't tell a woman what she cannot do is incomplete |
| 05:51.11 | calvarez | levi_home, that approach is not consistent with law |
| 05:51.20 | calvarez | I still cannot yell "bomb!" in a plane |
| 05:51.30 | calvarez | yet it doesn't matter whether I do it on your face or not |
| 05:51.46 | levi_home | calvarez: I'm not seeing your point. |
| 05:51.49 | Chadbryant | you can yell im my face all you want |
| 05:51.54 | Chadbryant | all it does is annoy me |
| 05:51.58 | calvarez | I still have to pay taxes, although it doesn't affect anybody in particular if I don't |
| 05:52.20 | calvarez | Chadbryant, again, I'm speaking on a general sense |
| 05:52.21 | Chadbryant | yell "bomb!" on a plane, or "fire!" in a crowded theatre, and you directly affect public safety |
| 05:52.27 | levi_home | calvarez: I'm not saying that laws against battery are the only limitations on my freedom to choose my actions. |
| 05:53.13 | calvarez | levi_home, yes, but the philosophy of the swinging-the-arm is always applied to direct consequences, and that is unreal |
| 05:53.48 | calvarez | there are consequences that people don't see as "hitting someone's nose", thus I usually leave that definition of freedom as incomplete |
| 05:53.57 | levi_home | Chadbryant: aborting a fetus directly affects the life of said fetus. The real issue is whether the fetus is to be granted the status of individual or not. Clearly you don't believe so, while calvarez does. |
| 05:54.14 | lukfugl | these are my takes on the issue: I'd love it if elective abortion were illegal. But I find two problems with it: 1) there need to be exceptions. Legislation always makes a mess of exceptions. 2) Due to Roe v. Wade and the like, it's not going to happen without a constitutional amendment. And I don't think moral issues like abortion belong in the constitution. Ergo, although I'd like a legislative ban on abortion, it ain't gonna happen. And I won' |
| 05:54.40 | lukfugl | there, I've said my piece |
| 05:54.43 | levi_home | calvarez: The issue of abortion does have direct consequences though, does it not? |
| 05:55.43 | calvarez | lukfugl, about 1) I'd prefer action on an issue with its correspondent mess of exceptions, than leaving the problem run rampant. 2) the bill of rights is the ultimate moral document |
| 05:56.01 | calvarez | levi_home, it does, I don't deny that |
| 05:56.15 | Chadbryant | "life" wholly dependent on another life doesn't really qualify as life |
| 05:56.16 | calvarez | the problem is that the fetus' nose isn't respected |
| 05:56.22 | levi_home | calvarez: I was just trying to draw a parallel, not make a profound statement about all freedoms. |
| 05:56.27 | Chadbryant | theoretically, it comes closer to being a parasite |
| 05:56.41 | levi_home | Chadbryant: There are situations where that argument breaks down. |
| 05:56.45 | calvarez | Chadbryant, explain that concept more. Children under the age of 1 fall squarely under your definition as well |
| 05:56.56 | calvarez | parasite? I don't think so |
| 05:57.07 | calvarez | parasitism means the guest hurts the host |
| 05:57.12 | levi_home | A newborn infant is just as dependant on parents as an unborn infant. |
| 05:57.24 | vontrapp | if it's a cute parasite, i'll dress it u pand give it a name |
| 05:57.25 | calvarez | I don't think you'll find either a body of research or public opinion supporting that argument |
| 05:57.26 | Chadbryant | you've never been married to a pregnant woman |
| 05:57.41 | levi_home | I must agree with Chadbryant on that point. ;) |
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| 05:57.50 | Chadbryant | the amount of strain on a pregnant woman is insane |
| 05:58.06 | calvarez | I am aware, I was 15 yrs old the last time my mom was pregnant |
| 05:58.12 | vontrapp | and the amount of sucked resources! |
| 05:58.17 | calvarez | vontrapp, lol |
| 05:59.17 | calvarez | Chadbryant, nevertheless, I don't think strain is an excuse yet |
| 05:59.34 | calvarez | cops are under a lot of strain too, yet they are not allowed to simply kill people they arrest |
| 06:00.06 | Chadbryant | there you go with the cop strawman again |
| 06:00.15 | calvarez | college can be a strain to many as well, yet it is assumed that people will carry through with things regardless of the strain because they chose to go to college |
| 06:00.19 | lukfugl | calvarez: regarding 2), yes, the bill of rights is a moral document. that's why I qualified it as "a moral issue *like* abortion". The level of morality embodied by the bill of rights is much higher level. The bill of rights does not address murder explicitly, nor extortion, graft, rape or a whole host of other moral issues. That's why we have laws. |
| 06:00.30 | calvarez | in many cases, abortion is the result of unprotected, consensual sex |
| 06:00.42 | calvarez | so the strain argument is incomplete as well |
| 06:00.48 | Chadbryant | let's just be honest |
| 06:00.57 | Chadbryant | abortion laws are designed by men to control women |
| 06:01.02 | calvarez | lol |
| 06:01.06 | levi_home | Chadbryant: That is not honest at all. |
| 06:01.09 | calvarez | well, I don't share your opinion |
| 06:01.14 | Chadbryant | men who want to keep the womenfolk in line |
| 06:01.20 | levi_home | Chadbryant: They are designed by people who think abortion is taking the life of a person. |
| 06:01.27 | calvarez | I want an abortion ban to protect the lifves of unborn children, not for power |
| 06:01.44 | calvarez | and, in fact, out of all pro-life people I know, nobody holds such views |
| 06:01.54 | Chadbryant | I hope you care just as much about the lives of children who are already born |
| 06:02.11 | calvarez | Chadbryant, I think that is just as fair and accurate as saying that all pro-choicers want to kill babies |
| 06:02.15 | calvarez | I do, in fact |
| 06:02.16 | Chadbryant | otherwise, you are a hypocrite of the highest order |
| 06:02.21 | lukfugl | Chadbryant: I'm sure they do... |
| 06:02.39 | Chadbryant | good, I hope you support education, making sure that no child goes hungry, etc. |
| 06:02.42 | lukfugl | I think you're hurting your own argument at this point and probably need to take a break and cool down |
| 06:02.58 | calvarez | I think that, togetherwith an abortion ban, a substantial amount of resources should be put into a more reliable structure to care for the unwanted children |
| 06:03.10 | calvarez | with an emphasis in adoption being primordial |
| 06:03.13 | Chadbryant | not really, I judt don't like to see self-righteous men dictate what they think is good for women |
| 06:03.19 | calvarez | Chadbryant, I support all those |
| 06:03.37 | calvarez | Chadbryant, I think youre just using a stereotype |
| 06:03.58 | levi_home | Chadbryant: That argument is based on utlility to society, not the individual freedoms that the Constitution guarantees. Under a philosophy of pure utilitarianism, abortion can be easily justified, as can many other practices you might find abhorrent. |
| 06:03.59 | vontrapp | calvarez: laws and exceptions aside, what about the 'abortion black market' and 'home abortions' |
| 06:04.16 | calvarez | vontrapp, I'll keep them illegal |
| 06:04.21 | calvarez | and prosecute them |
| 06:04.35 | calvarez | I am aware that some may happen still |
| 06:05.50 | calvarez | but legalizing abortion on those grounds is just like saying that laws should be passed so that robbers are given all the money of a bank upon request with no resistence since if not there would be shots and people would get hurt |
| 06:06.01 | levi_home | Chadbryant: You may disagree with calvarez on this point, but he has a logical and well-reasoned stance based on sound principles. That does not make it necessarily correct, but you aren't arguing at the right points to convince him he is wrong. |
| 06:06.10 | calvarez | in fact, I think THAT case would make more sense |
| 06:06.12 | calvarez | if at all |
| 06:06.44 | calvarez | at any rate, I don't think blaming government because you get screwed while doing something illegal makes sense |
| 06:07.12 | vontrapp | calvarez: as a matter of fact, people are encouraged by the police to just give the money when at gunpoint, not that it's legal, they still go after the robber, but that's not really related |
| 06:07.42 | calvarez | vontrapp, true |
| 06:07.50 | calvarez | I guess my example wasn't entirely accurate |
| 06:08.21 | calvarez | but hopefully you get the gist of what I inaccurately was trying to portray: just because people do illegal things doesn't mean they should be made legal |
| 06:09.19 | calvarez | neither shoudl illegal things be allowed because those who still do it face natural negative consequences |
| 06:09.19 | Chadbryant | but you are trying to claim that a woman's right to reproductive choice should be illegal |
| 06:09.35 | vontrapp | i do, and it makes sense, to complete my view, i really think focusing on education and other means of preventing pregnancy in the first place is a much better route all-in-all |
| 06:09.45 | calvarez | it depends, you'll have to define what you call "reproductive choice" for me |
| 06:10.21 | calvarez | vontrapp, I don't argue that, but education alone won't do it |
| 06:10.36 | vontrapp | and there are other laws that can be tried first, such as perhaps making it illegal for a doctor to solicit abortion from a pregnant woman |
| 06:11.05 | vontrapp | as Jayce^ stated yesterday, doctors repeatedly encouraged his mother to abort him |
| 06:11.10 | vontrapp | (it was Jayce^, right?) |
| 06:11.17 | lukfugl | gah? |
| 06:11.19 | calvarez | so, I agree that education is vital, but using education to steer the dialogue away from the real issue (whether abortion should be banned or not) isn't good |
| 06:11.33 | calvarez | I'm not implying that's what you were trying to do, but many people do |
| 06:12.28 | Chadbryant | I don't like that many anti-abortion zealots are all for "protecting the innocent children" when it comes to abortion, but don't give a you-know-what when it comes to the kids that are already born |
| 06:13.01 | vontrapp | but education is as good a stance as banning on abortion and voting the whoremonger hatch because he has an equally different approach to the issue, well... |
| 06:13.01 | vontrapp | i lost my train of thought |
| 06:13.02 | calvarez | again, I don't agree with your use of the word "many", that's just a stereotype |
| 06:13.31 | maquis | i find it interesting that many people who are pro-choice are against the death penalty |
| 06:13.34 | calvarez | if you replace the word with "many" with "some", I'll agree with you. If you don't, then I'll expect evidence to back up such accusation |
| 06:13.43 | vontrapp | i must be gteting tired |
| 06:13.47 | Chadbryant | I don't see many anti-aborton zealots championing the improvement of public education |
| 06:13.56 | vontrapp | good night |
| 06:14.00 | Chadbryant | or making sure that our children are housed and well-fed |
| 06:14.02 | calvarez | Chadbryant, I do see several |
| 06:14.09 | lukfugl | I need to head off to bed too |
| 06:14.14 | lukfugl | thanks for the dialogue, all |
| 06:14.18 | calvarez | thanks to you |
| 06:14.23 | Chadbryant | personally, I'm against abortion *and" the death penalty |
| 06:15.02 | findlay | and I'm against caterpillers |
| 06:15.18 | calvarez | maquis, I find it interesting that many pro-choicers oppose the war on iraq on the terms that Iraqi children are dying |
| 06:16.31 | calvarez | btw, I don't believe this is an unfair generalization, since most Democrats are pro-choice (oppose a ban) and oppose the war on Iraq |
| 06:17.30 | Chadbryant | you're not arguing with a Democrat |
| 06:17.37 | Chadbryant | at least not in regards to me |
| 06:17.56 | calvarez | I didn't try to personalize that to you, I was defneding my argument |
| 06:18.38 | calvarez | hmm, SLC favors Cannon |
| 06:18.51 | calvarez | and Hatch! |
| 06:18.53 | calvarez | wow |
| 06:19.29 | calvarez | well, it is pretty much over |
| 06:19.59 | calvarez | it's Hatch to the house again, and Cannon, Bishop and Matteson to the house |
| 06:20.18 | calvarez | gtg, 1:20AM here |
| 06:20.22 | calvarez | bye, thanks for the debate |
| 06:25.55 | levi_home | Whee, that's over. |
| 06:26.29 | levi_home | I feel like starting a big Lisp thread on PLUG just to tick of Gabe. |
| 06:26.34 | levi_home | s/of/off |
| 06:27.34 | Chadbryant | lol |
| 06:28.34 | levi_home | Silly people, thinking you have to be smart to learn Lisp. Look at newLISP! That's clear evidence to the contrary! |
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| 06:58.01 | mrpull-lt | everybody gone to bed? |
| 06:59.06 | Sargun | no |
| 06:59.18 | mentax | no |
| 06:59.42 | mentax | I have 1:00 pm |
| 07:01.16 | bonez39 | to bed....all worn out from the election |
| 07:01.33 | bonez39 | but all the votes aren't in yet, or tabulated yet..... |
| 07:02.33 | Sargun | bonez39, Didja get your minutes? |
| 07:02.55 | bonez39 | had other things going on....I'll count them up...adding this task to my list now... |
| 07:03.05 | bonez39 | I have to get a big batch of mail merge letters out tonight.... |
| 07:19.23 | levi_home | Man, citeseer is having problems lately. |
| 07:21.34 | bonez39 | levi_home, what is citeseer? |
| 07:57.01 | *** part/#utah Chadbryant (n=chadbrya@71-35-233-162.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 08:03.40 | levi_home | bonez39: It's a site that cross-references freely available research papers relating to computer and information sciences. |
| 08:03.56 | bonez39 | levi_home, thanks... |
| 08:15.55 | Sargun | <PROTECTED> |
| 08:42.58 | Tene | Up in Washington, apparently, "water" was voted as a nonrenewable resource. |
| 08:43.12 | Tene | When people had to walk through a few feet of water in some places in order to get to the polls. |
| 08:44.00 | Tene | A large segment of the population actually makes money from hydro power, which they can't do anymore, so they expect large economic problems. |
| 08:44.47 | Tene | It's completely devestating the life of at least one of my friends, so i might have biased information on the related issues. |
| 08:49.47 | goozbach | bed |
| 08:49.53 | goozbach | I wish I was in bed |
| 08:50.15 | Tene | you could /join ##bed |
| 08:54.24 | *** join/#utah spr (n=spr@c-24-10-168-229.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 08:54.40 | goozbach | Tene: I cannot sleep till this server is finished |
| 09:20.14 | Sargun | ~ping |
| 09:20.22 | ibot | pong |
| 09:50.01 | Tene | ~poing |
| 09:50.10 | ibot | tene: wobble? |
| 09:50.11 | Tene | ~pong |
| 09:50.12 | ibot | pong is probably ping |
| 13:33.40 | *** join/#utah graphyx (n=graphyx@205.208.245.105) |
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| 14:13.03 | emcnabb | morning |
| 14:14.38 | graphyx | Ok I have to admin, I like the placement of the new tab button that IE7 has |
| 14:14.47 | graphyx | s/admin/admit/ |
| 14:14.50 | *** join/#utah spig (n=spig@sento1.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 14:15.06 | graphyx | and I have to admit that the election results suck. |
| 14:17.28 | emcnabb | I'm very pleased |
| 14:18.26 | emcnabb | I'm all for having more than one party in control |
| 14:18.54 | emcnabb | I don't agree with the democrats about everything, but the same holds true for the republicans |
| 14:20.54 | graphyx | well you don't live in a democrate controlled state. |
| 14:21.03 | graphyx | (actually maybe you do.) |
| 14:21.09 | graphyx | But that is the way things are here. |
| 14:21.34 | graphyx | And we currently have, IIRC, the 2nd highest tax rates in the US. |
| 14:21.37 | graphyx | for the states. |
| 14:21.38 | emcnabb | I have for the majority of my life |
| 14:22.12 | graphyx | the sales tax for a hamburger is 10.5% |
| 14:23.53 | emcnabb | you should move then :-) |
| 14:24.29 | graphyx | a good job is a prereq on that one. |
| 14:25.09 | emcnabb | well, if that's how people in that state want to live, that's their choice |
| 14:26.40 | emcnabb | http://www.dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2002221161108.gif |
| 14:29.03 | graphyx | I read that one before. but missed the fact that wally stole his monitor. That's amusing in a sinfeld kinda way. |
| 14:29.59 | graphyx | http://www.taxadmin.org/fta/rate/05taxbur.html |
| 14:30.11 | emcnabb | yeah, I chuckled myself |
| 14:30.44 | graphyx | 2005 stats showing Arkansans pay the 4th highest percentage of their wage as taxes. |
| 14:31.32 | emcnabb | the people choose |
| 14:32.22 | graphyx | They only choose the reps. |
| 14:32.22 | emcnabb | I'm all for paying taxes, as long as the money is used wisely and benefits me... unfortunately, this rarely happens, and the Republicans are just as bad |
| 14:32.26 | graphyx | The reps choose the taxes. |
| 14:32.35 | emcnabb | then choose different reps |
| 14:32.40 | graphyx | I tried. |
| 14:32.43 | graphyx | didn't work. |
| 14:32.49 | emcnabb | but others in your state disagreed |
| 14:32.53 | emcnabb | the mass decided |
| 14:33.19 | graphyx | tis true. |
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| 15:10.29 | redbeard1 | ~lart graphyx |
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| 15:14.56 | emcnabb | ~lart redbeard1 |
| 15:15.23 | redbeard1 | ~whaleslap emcnabb |
| 15:15.25 | ibot | ACTION beats emcnabb upside and over the head with a freakishly huge killer whale named Hugh |
| 15:19.13 | mheath[laptop] | ~whaleparry redbeard1 |
| 15:19.15 | ibot | ACTION uses a slightly less-huge but eminently more agile killer whale named Edwardo to parry redbeard1's attacks. |
| 15:21.14 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@129.81.70.216) |
| 15:22.45 | elg | go figure. my macbook isn't here and it's already obsolete |
| 15:22.47 | goozbach | it's mornings like this that I wish i was a drinker |
| 15:22.59 | goozbach | of more than just |
| 15:23.02 | goozbach | Caffiene |
| 15:23.12 | redbeard1 | you mean, like orange juice? |
| 15:23.32 | redbeard1 | maybe with a little red bull and vodka? |
| 15:23.32 | goozbach | mixed with vodka |
| 15:23.44 | elg | I think he means dihydroxide |
| 15:24.24 | redbeard1 | it amuses me how often that word appears in my web stats |
| 15:24.38 | graphyx | dihydroxide? |
| 15:24.46 | goozbach | vodka? |
| 15:24.50 | goozbach | just? |
| 15:24.56 | goozbach | you? |
| 15:25.03 | goozbach | plural? |
| 15:25.09 | goozbach | slappy? |
| 15:25.16 | redbeard1 | dihydroxide |
| 15:25.17 | graphyx | DOn't make us spider and do a histogram of your website to see what word you are talking about.... |
| 15:25.29 | goozbach | I need to unplug my keyboard |
| 15:25.31 | elg | http://www.dhmo.org/ |
| 15:26.04 | dilvie | http://picasaweb.google.com/dilvie/2006117_Johnnys_Election_Night |
| 15:26.23 | elg | goozbach: I should have said dihydrogen monoxide I guess |
| 15:26.39 | dilvie | dhmo is deadly |
| 15:26.44 | dilvie | I demand we outlaw it right away! |
| 15:27.17 | dilvie | did you know that dhmo is many thousands of times more toxic than marijuana? |
| 15:27.17 | dilvie | it's a fact! |
| 15:27.48 | dilvie | it's also much more addictive, and withdrawal often causes DEATH! |
| 15:27.57 | *** join/#utah calvarez (n=calvarez@r82h185.res.gatech.edu) |
| 15:27.58 | dilvie | doom doom doom dooom! |
| 15:28.15 | calvarez | GREAT! |
| 15:28.30 | dilvie | Washington is getting a huge DHMO overdose |
| 15:28.32 | dilvie | eheh |
| 15:28.33 | elg | i just watched a presentation from a gatech guy |
| 15:28.38 | calvarez | now, everybody hold onto your butts, government is gonna go on a spending rampage! |
| 15:28.52 | calvarez | spending more than a drunken Kennedy |
| 15:28.58 | dilvie | calvarez: don't count on it |
| 15:29.14 | elg | what do you call a spending rampage following a spending rampage? |
| 15:29.28 | *** join/#utah Crax (n=nobody@42dbd951.dsl.aros.net) |
| 15:29.33 | goozbach | http://www.dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/dilbert-20061018.html |
| 15:29.37 | graphyx | From the site "Married couples have found that regular ingestion of DHMO can improve their marriage-related activities, while couples that never ingest DHMO often find that their marriage suffers as well. " |
| 15:29.37 | dilvie | calvarez: honestly, they couldn't be much worse than the republicans were |
| 15:29.40 | calvarez | it's called "saving the rain forest" |
| 15:30.04 | mheath[laptop] | goozbach, great :) |
| 15:30.06 | goozbach | dilvie: know of any good shows happening in the SLC friday evening? |
| 15:30.22 | dilvie | goozbach: what sort of show are you looking for? |
| 15:30.37 | goozbach | live music |
| 15:30.59 | goozbach | I figured you'd be a good one to ask |
| 15:31.14 | goozbach | anything, really |
| 15:31.35 | goozbach | I've got some friends comming up with me this weekend. |
| 15:32.33 | dilvie | S.o.S/F.G/CavityBurn/Miranda Project @ Club Vegas |
| 15:33.02 | dilvie | SoS = Separation of Self |
| 15:33.06 | mheath[laptop] | doesn't talk much :) |
| 15:33.25 | dilvie | http://myspace.com/dilvie |
| 15:33.30 | graphyx | compared to you mheath most of us are mute. |
| 15:33.53 | mheath[laptop] | true :)O |
| 15:33.54 | mheath[laptop] | :) |
| 15:34.50 | dilvie | LOST PROPHETS, Transit Was, Takes The Crown @ in the Venue |
| 15:36.55 | dilvie | I'm looking forward to The Sounds and Shiny Toy Guns on the 29th, and Imogen Heap Dec. 8th |
| 15:37.10 | dilvie | those will be some great shows! =) |
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| 15:40.49 | levi | Morning. :) |
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| 15:50.15 | goozbach | so how'd that thing with the touchscreens, and papers and sleazeballs, go yesterday? |
| 15:50.19 | goozbach | what's that called |
| 15:50.33 | goozbach | ohh, I'm announcing victory BTW |
| 15:50.47 | goozbach | the votes have been tallyied |
| 15:51.04 | goozbach | goozbach: 7 sjansen: -1 |
| 16:03.31 | levi | goozbach: I call for a recount! |
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| 16:17.42 | unum | ok now it's time to get serious about ugotta |
| 16:17.43 | goozbach | votes have been recounted |
| 16:17.49 | unum | where at |
| 16:17.49 | goozbach | goozbach: 7 sjansen: -2 |
| 16:17.56 | unum | oh those ones |
| 16:18.27 | unum | graphyx: nationally things went well for the democrats |
| 16:18.43 | unum | the democrats almost took salt lake county |
| 16:18.50 | elg | still a chance for repubs to keep the senate |
| 16:19.06 | elg | which I hope they do. I like balance |
| 16:19.07 | unum | but not by nearly as much as they had it |
| 16:19.25 | unum | there will be a lot more compromising on the national level |
| 16:19.47 | elg | exactly |
| 16:19.56 | unum | ashdown lost by a lot more than I had hoped |
| 16:21.01 | dilvie | unum: no kidding |
| 16:21.13 | dilvie | I thought he would easily take Salt Lake County |
| 16:22.39 | unum | ya me too |
| 16:22.55 | unum | but hatch used his seniority very well |
| 16:23.02 | unum | senority |
| 16:23.08 | unum | that's still not right |
| 16:27.35 | dilvie | no he didn't |
| 16:27.46 | dilvie | he didn't have to |
| 16:27.57 | dilvie | Ashdown's campaign sucked. |
| 16:28.31 | dilvie | a harsh truth, but truth all the same |
| 16:28.31 | dilvie | it was dramatically underfunded |
| 16:28.44 | dilvie | he was unable to get his message out effectively |
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| 16:31.32 | com4 | seriously, i only heard about ashdown from word of mouth |
| 16:31.41 | com4 | once i saw his campaign bus, but that's it |
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| 16:33.27 | Lone_Wanderer | ahoy |
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| 16:45.41 | Lone_Wanderer | anyone know how MS SQL stacks up against Postgres for scalability? |
| 16:46.12 | *** join/#utah mrpull-wm (n=mrpull@166.195.46.13) |
| 16:52.15 | findlay | badly? |
| 16:52.24 | findlay | unless you have lots of money |
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| 17:29.08 | calvarez | Lone_Wanderer, findlay, that is not true |
| 17:29.26 | calvarez | MS SQL server is extremely reliable in huge databases with extremely large numbers of request |
| 17:29.30 | calvarez | resuests* |
| 17:29.57 | calvarez | ack |
| 17:30.02 | calvarez | s/request/requests/ |
| 17:30.04 | maquis | syn |
| 17:30.16 | calvarez | syn? |
| 17:33.05 | Lone_Wanderer | ack |
| 17:43.51 | findlay | calvarez: only if you have lots of money |
| 17:44.16 | Lone_Wanderer | My company's got licenses already, Finndlay. |
| 17:45.17 | findlay | fine |
| 17:52.13 | calvarez | findlay, no |
| 17:52.22 | calvarez | it only takes knowing how to configure it properly |
| 17:52.39 | calvarez | and that can be solved by buying a few books and googling a bit |
| 17:54.18 | findlay | you still have to buy a license |
| 17:54.20 | Lone_Wanderer | I think he means for licenses, calvarez. |
| 17:54.38 | Lone_Wanderer | You've got to be running a windows server ($$$) and you've got to have an MS SQL license (more $$$) |
| 17:54.41 | calvarez | well, that's true. My bad |
| 17:55.38 | Lone_Wanderer | But like I said, we've got the licenses and servers, so that's not an issue. |
| 17:55.47 | findlay | goozbach: the topic doesn't display the vote count |
| 17:57.21 | Crax | sqlExpress(2005) is also free and works quite well for smaller projects or clients that don't want to spend $ on the license for a full sql version |
| 17:57.52 | macnewbold | you're much better off with MySQL or postgresql |
| 17:57.55 | ^Migs^ | sqlExpress is all anyone needs |
| 17:58.02 | macnewbold | like a hole in the head |
| 17:58.08 | ^Migs^ | :D |
| 17:58.21 | Lone_Wanderer | I'm leaning towards postgres |
| 17:58.25 | ^Migs^ | bleh |
| 17:58.26 | ^Migs^ | use MySQL |
| 17:58.27 | macnewbold | i bet sqlexpress goes great wit the 640KB of ram that is all anyone needs |
| 17:58.31 | ^Migs^ | why are you leaning toward postgre? |
| 18:00.10 | findlay | because it itself leans |
| 18:00.13 | Lone_Wanderer | It's not MS, and it's better than *dons flameproof suit* MySQL |
| 18:00.14 | findlay | ? |
| 18:00.25 | ^Migs^ | explain |
| 18:01.02 | Lone_Wanderer | Triggers, views, customizable data types. Not based on sybase. |
| 18:02.02 | ^Migs^ | -k- |
| 18:02.06 | ^Migs^ | who's arguing? |
| 18:02.19 | Lone_Wanderer | It looks like there's about to be one, so I just thought I'd mention it before one started. |
| 18:02.22 | ^Migs^ | I was wondering what your needs were that makes you want to use PostgreSQL |
| 18:02.23 | findlay | me! |
| 18:02.36 | ^Migs^ | I think you need to calm down and stop being so defensive. No one's out to get you. |
| 18:02.41 | findlay | mysql is the paragon of text editors |
| 18:02.48 | findlay | or databases, I mean! |
| 18:02.50 | Lone_Wanderer | Our DBA doesn't like MySQL's lack of a scripting language, views, etc. |
| 18:02.52 | ^Migs^ | and yes, if you want that stuff, postgresql is the way to go |
| 18:02.55 | Lone_Wanderer | He's an Oracle guy at heart. |
| 18:03.06 | ^Migs^ | mysql, however, has a massive performance edge |
| 18:03.22 | Lone_Wanderer | Yeah, I know. |
| 18:03.49 | ^Migs^ | MySQL 5.0 has also rectified many of the previous deficiencies too, which I think is super-neato |
| 18:03.59 | Lone_Wanderer | Yeah, I need to learn what 5.0 offers. |
| 18:04.35 | ^Migs^ | featurewise, postgresql is still probably ahead |
| 18:05.04 | ^Migs^ | i dunno, it depends on what you're looking at |
| 18:06.16 | ^Migs^ | I'm pretty sure MySQL 5 does have triggers, views, and stored procedures, btw |
| 18:06.31 | ^Migs^ | I know for a fact it at least has stored procedures |
| 18:07.17 | Crax | it does have triggers and views as well |
| 18:07.39 | ^Migs^ | cool |
| 18:08.26 | ^Migs^ | I didn't realize postgresql had customizable data types, though |
| 18:08.43 | findlay | does python have date/time code that can do easy incrementing/decrementing of various time elements? |
| 18:09.32 | findlay | like next month = month++ or yesterday = today-- |
| 18:09.34 | Lone_Wanderer | I can't imagine it doesn't |
| 18:09.54 | Lone_Wanderer | but that doesn't help you find the docs on it =\ |
| 18:09.54 | findlay | but I'm too lazy to look it up |
| 18:12.11 | Crax | http://pleac.sourceforge.net/pleac_python/datesandtimes.html |
| 18:13.09 | *** topic/#utah by goozbach -> The source for OSS focused discussion in Utah | Read http://plug.org/node/28 | Thanks for voting, here's the outcome: goozbach: 7 sjansen: -2 |
| 18:15.51 | findlay | Crax: thanks |
| 18:17.12 | Crax | your welcome |
| 18:18.16 | findlay | its time for some Mozart |
| 18:18.17 | findlay | piano variations |
| 18:19.16 | ^Migs^ | Mozart sucks |
| 18:19.17 | harleypig | DINGLEHOPPER! |
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| 18:19.31 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 18:20.08 | levi | Ack, 402 pages of low-level bit-twiddling documentation to dig through. :/ |
| 18:20.11 | findlay | oh yeah, well in soviet #utah, Mozart plays you |
| 18:25.12 | graphyx | harleypig: Put the disney down and place your hands behind your head!! |
| 18:25.24 | graphyx | I mean put the disney down and step away from the DVD player |
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| 18:32.52 | emcnabb | woohoo, Rumsfeld is quiting |
| 18:33.18 | levi | It's truly the end of an era. |
| 18:33.46 | elg | ~quit emcnabb |
| 18:34.02 | findlay | maybe it's just me, but I didn't think Rumsfeld was doing too bad of a job |
| 18:34.32 | emcnabb | it's you :-) |
| 18:34.53 | findlay | emcnabb: you're closer to DC so you should know these things, right? |
| 18:35.30 | harleypig | graphyx: Oh *that's* where that came from .. it's been running through my head since Saturday. |
| 18:35.44 | findlay | heh |
| 18:35.48 | harleypig | which, oddly enough, is when the younger kids watched Little Mermeaid. |
| 18:35.48 | emcnabb | findlay: something like that |
| 18:36.20 | graphyx | harleypig: Yeah, I've got 4 kids now. |
| 18:40.07 | ^Migs^ | there's always a kids' movie playing at my house |
| 18:40.12 | ^Migs^ | some of them better than others |
| 18:40.22 | ^Migs^ | tons of Barbie movies |
| 18:40.32 | graphyx | ^Migs^: you should consider blocking the disney channel. |
| 18:40.36 | ^Migs^ | and Care Bears |
| 18:40.41 | ^Migs^ | nah, Disney isn't too bad |
| 18:40.58 | ^Migs^ | it's only in the mornings, when Playhouse Disney is on |
| 18:41.53 | graphyx | ^Migs^: I despise how every story that they portray has the associated commercialism. |
| 18:41.53 | ^Migs^ | I usually watch and enjoy the Disney shows |
| 18:42.00 | ^Migs^ | ? |
| 18:42.10 | ^Migs^ | what associated commercialism? |
| 18:42.31 | graphyx | They make a show, and then produce the plush toys, the bed spreads, the cartoons, the games, the assocaited advertizing, |
| 18:42.33 | graphyx | etc... |
| 18:42.40 | graphyx | You have to have noticed all of that stuff... |
| 18:42.47 | ^Migs^ | You despise that? |
| 18:42.51 | ^Migs^ | why? |
| 18:42.57 | graphyx | It's a bit over the top. |
| 18:42.58 | ^Migs^ | they do have to make money, you know |
| 18:43.02 | graphyx | Sure.. |
| 18:43.09 | graphyx | But for every single variance? |
| 18:43.10 | ^Migs^ | no it's not, because kids see the show, then they want merchandise because they like the show |
| 18:43.23 | ^Migs^ | parents buy it, kids enjoy it, everyone wins |
| 18:43.41 | ^Migs^ | then Disney can put the money they earn into new quality childrens' programming |
| 18:43.43 | graphyx | Still it grates on me. |
| 18:43.54 | ^Migs^ | take a xanax and calm down |
| 18:44.06 | graphyx | Which show did xanax come from? |
| 18:44.07 | graphyx | j/k. |
| 18:44.09 | ^Migs^ | hehe |
| 18:44.29 | graphyx | My wife is desperate to take the family to disneyland. |
| 18:44.39 | graphyx | I can't think of a bigger waste of $400 dollars to do it. |
| 18:44.52 | elg | you could take them to billgatesland |
| 18:44.56 | graphyx | s/to do it// |
| 18:45.12 | graphyx | elg: That's 1000 dollars. |
| 18:46.12 | graphyx | I do admit that we do own some disney movies. |
| 18:46.48 | graphyx | but I don't subscribe to the buy all the extras for each show only to replace it by the same stuff for the next movie 1 year down the road before it all wears out. |
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| 18:47.31 | graphyx | I still like the idea of buy quality stuff that will last a while and not waste money on low quality stuff every year just because the kids have a new favorite movie character. |
| 18:47.55 | graphyx | What type of decorations do you use for that type of a party? |
| 18:48.07 | graphyx | oh wait. I think I got it. anything red. |
| 18:51.23 | SB1-Work | lol |
| 18:51.23 | SB1-Work | That's kinda funny |
| 18:53.10 | elg | in 1.5 hours a class full of dsp students will suffer deeply. I'll be sitting in a cafe in new orleans |
| 18:53.20 | lukfugl | heh |
| 18:53.21 | elg | that's kind of gratifying |
| 18:53.34 | lukfugl | how goes the conference? |
| 18:53.47 | elg | my monday will be torture though. I have to proctor an exam, take two exams, go to my regular classes, and manage to eat too |
| 18:54.01 | levi | Yow. |
| 18:54.03 | levi | ~pity elg |
| 18:54.14 | ibot | I pity da fool elg! |
| 18:54.39 | elg | it's pretty cool |
| 18:55.00 | elg | i'm slightly disappointed. there's only 4 hours of paper presentations a day |
| 18:55.00 | goozbach | ohh today sucks |
| 18:55.12 | elg | and 4-6 hours of concerts |
| 18:55.36 | elg | I like really weird odd computer music as much as the next guy but I can't stand 6 hours a day of it. so I just skip many of the concerts |
| 18:56.03 | lukfugl | goozbach: ?? |
| 18:56.05 | elg | that's the way it goes at a conference that's half about computer science and half about electronic music composition |
| 18:56.52 | ^Migs^ | sounds lame |
| 18:57.05 | ^Migs^ | my music skillz probably pwn everyone there anyway |
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| 18:59.39 | emcnabb | ~lart MTU Path Discovery over IPSec |
| 19:01.07 | elg | ^Migs^: who can say. the problem is that the concerts mostly aren't music. they think it is, but it's not in my book. It's interesting, fascinating, fun, but it's more soundscape than music |
| 19:01.58 | ^Migs^ | an unofficial rule I usually follow when writing music is that I have to have a tune I can find myself humming later |
| 19:02.07 | ^Migs^ | if it's not catchy, it's not worth creating |
| 19:03.33 | elg | experimentation. imagine the oddest contemporary composer using normal instruments, then take away whatever melodic and harmonic techniques he used and substitute synthesis, tape dubbing techniques, and "found sounds" (whatever odd thing they can bang on), and whatever weird way they can play instruments (like blowing into a flute and playing the keys of a sax without blowing) |
| 19:03.56 | elg | for whatever conventional instruments the composer used |
| 19:04.04 | ^Migs^ | meh |
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| 19:04.11 | ^Migs^ | it's a unique genre. Still music. Just not my personal taste. |
| 19:04.25 | elg | oh and recorded sounds, be they water dripping, people screaming sighing walking talking whatever |
| 19:04.27 | ^Migs^ | I guess I'm old-fashioned that way, in that I like to actually have a recognizable tune. |
| 19:04.43 | ^Migs^ | the only semi-acceptable recorded sound is rainfall |
| 19:04.48 | elg | I like it, and I don't mind classifying it as "computer music" or "electronic music" |
| 19:04.54 | ^Migs^ | and only on a new age song |
| 19:05.02 | elg | but I don't think of it as music, and I can't listen to it for hours |
| 19:05.17 | ^Migs^ | I'm listening to old school tracked music right now |
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| 19:05.24 | ^Migs^ | oops |
| 19:05.52 | ^Migs^ | back when computer music was a gentleman's pursuit |
| 19:07.19 | levi | elg: So, like John Cage with a synthesizer? |
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| 19:10.39 | elg | i don't know john cage |
| 19:11.32 | levi | He's most well known for his piece that consists entirely of silence, and whatever background noise happens to be in the performance hall. |
| 19:11.53 | findlay | elg: you are blessed |
| 19:12.13 | levi | He also wrote a bunch of stuff for the 'prepared piano', where he did a bunch of weird stuff to a piano to make it make odd sounds. |
| 19:12.27 | levi | Stuck different things under the hammers, etc. |
| 19:12.36 | findlay | and that's about all you need to know: odd |
| 19:13.31 | elg | yeah, that sort of thing. with the help of computers and tape |
| 19:14.02 | levi | I think he also experimented with randomness in composition. |
| 19:14.03 | elg | I'm familiar with 4:22 or however long that silence piece is |
| 19:14.10 | levi | Yup, that's the one. |
| 19:16.59 | levi | I got some recordings of his more listenable stuff back when emusic.com was unlimited. |
| 19:23.28 | ^Migs^ | haha, wtf: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUJagb7hL0E |
| 19:23.39 | ^Migs^ | that's so stupid |
| 19:23.52 | ^Migs^ | every single person in the audience who applauded is a total sucker |
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| 19:29.21 | scott | I do not understand this novell microsoft business. Why is MS paying them $350 million? I fail to see what MS is getting out of this |
| 19:29.55 | findlay | stuff |
| 19:31.26 | [Utah]tristanbob | ^Migs^: that is a unique piece of music |
| 19:32.48 | ^Migs^ | same reason Google bought YouTube, probably. Google has probably been secretly working on some amazing technology for filtering copyrighted videos they'll unleash soon here |
| 19:32.50 | scott | MS is paying novell the equivalent of buying a 25% stake for subscription access to technology that is open source. |
| 19:32.50 | ^Migs^ | or maybe not, I dunno |
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| 19:33.24 | scott | there's some big strategy these guys have going behind the scenes |
| 19:34.01 | [Utah]tristanbob | ^Migs^: I never knew there were 3 movements to that piece |
| 19:34.12 | ^Migs^ | yeah, apparently there are |
| 19:34.20 | [Utah]tristanbob | ^Migs^: I also like the writing on the page: Movement 1 - Tacet |
| 19:34.52 | [Utah]tristanbob | ^Migs^: to bad there was not Tacetissimo |
| 19:34.57 | scott | google bought youtube because their 10billion cash was burning a hole in their pocket |
| 19:35.16 | [Utah]tristanbob | (tacet is silent, issimo means very) |
| 19:35.19 | ^Migs^ | ah |
| 19:35.23 | ^Migs^ | I know issimo |
| 19:35.28 | ^Migs^ | that's hilarious |
| 19:36.39 | [Utah]tristanbob | does anyone know what to put in the comment section of a gpg key? |
| 19:36.53 | [Utah]tristanbob | the example is in german and is (der dichter) |
| 19:37.57 | emcnabb | ^Migs^: wow |
| 19:38.23 | emcnabb | John Cage... well... sucks |
| 19:38.34 | ^Migs^ | I agree with emcnabb |
| 19:38.55 | ^Migs^ | I guess it's supposed to be "artsy" in some way |
| 19:40.02 | [Utah]tristanbob | as artsy as artsy can get |
| 19:40.12 | emcnabb | there's no art there |
| 19:42.40 | elg | only the delusion of art |
| 19:42.49 | elg | and there's lots of that to go around |
| 19:43.22 | [Utah]tristanbob | I agree that there is no art in the music - the art is in the silence |
| 19:43.57 | [Utah]tristanbob | there is a funny story behind the first" playing" of that piece |
| 19:44.09 | [Utah]tristanbob | the audience was expecting some grand piece of music |
| 19:44.43 | emcnabb | silence is not an art |
| 19:45.00 | lukfugl | if I were ever found at a "performance" of that piece, you can bet I'd do my best to "contribute" |
| 19:45.09 | emcnabb | if that is a case, I'm an artist, and I "art" with the best of them |
| 19:46.23 | lukfugl | it's all about the background sounds, right? well, then, I'll *give* you some background sounds |
| 19:46.24 | [Utah]tristanbob | "However, Cage repeatedly claimed that he composed 4′33″ in small units of silent rhythmic durations which, when summed, equalled the duration of the title--he further claimed that he might have made a mistake in addition." |
| 19:46.36 | [Utah]tristanbob | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Cage |
| 19:46.53 | emcnabb | Enjoy! |
| 19:47.21 | goozbach | [Utah]tristanbob: I put my nick there |
| 19:47.28 | goozbach | Derek Carter (goozbach) |
| 19:47.32 | lukfugl | emcnabb: that's some good improv you got going there |
| 19:48.06 | emcnabb | lukfugl: it tooks years of practice |
| 19:48.22 | emcnabb | I love letting my artistic side come out |
| 19:48.24 | lukfugl | I can imagine |
| 19:48.54 | [Utah]tristanbob | goozbach: Thanks! I will do the same - that is a great idea |
| 19:49.23 | [Utah]tristanbob | emcnabb: way to go, maestro! |
| 19:53.33 | [Utah]tristanbob | I love creating entropy |
| 19:54.04 | emcnabb | :-) |
| 19:54.20 | [Utah]tristanbob | I feel so important as I randomly move the mouse, wait, that is not random enough, stop making geometric shapes! Now you key will be easily cracked! |
| 19:55.21 | [Utah]tristanbob | what is my key id? |
| 19:55.24 | [Utah]tristanbob | email address? |
| 19:56.45 | spr | last 8 hex characters of the fingerprint. |
| 19:56.53 | [Utah]tristanbob | gpg --list-keys email@email.com |
| 19:57.08 | [Utah]tristanbob | sooo.... let me look |
| 19:57.18 | [Utah]tristanbob | the pubkey part? |
| 19:57.25 | elg | 4'33" in a modern audience should be very different |
| 19:57.29 | elg | than when it was composed |
| 19:57.42 | elg | "Ladies and gentlemen, we ask you to please *not* turn off your cell phones before this performance" |
| 19:57.51 | [Utah]tristanbob | elg: :) |
| 19:57.52 | spr | on mine: pub 1024D/DC5C7601 |
| 19:58.03 | spr | my key id is DC5C6701 |
| 19:58.06 | [Utah]tristanbob | so the last 8 |
| 19:58.10 | [Utah]tristanbob | cool - thanks |
| 19:58.18 | spr | s/67/76/ |
| 19:58.45 | [Utah]tristanbob | ok sent me key |
| 19:59.45 | spr | [Utah]tristanbob: what's your keyserver? |
| 20:00.56 | [Utah]tristanbob | not sure - using Ubuntu 6.10 |
| 20:02.06 | [Utah]tristanbob | keyserver.ubuntu.com |
| 20:02.25 | *** join/#utah Keighvin (n=ptomlins@kei.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 20:02.38 | [Utah]tristanbob | spr: perhaps it will take a while to appear |
| 20:02.53 | Keighvin | ~tick |
| 20:02.56 | ibot | Yeah, well, don't count your weasels before they pop, dink! |
| 20:03.11 | spr | hm, yeah I use pgp.mit.edu. I'll check later |
| 20:03.15 | Keighvin | ~weaselstomp Jayce^ |
| 20:03.16 | ibot | ACTION dons a viking helm, spreads some mayonnaise, and gives Jayce^ a good hard STOMP. Repeatedly. |
| 20:04.13 | graphyx | ~whalestomp Keighvin |
| 20:04.25 | ^Migs^ | ~whaleflurry Keighvin |
| 20:04.27 | ibot | ACTION unleashes a flurry of slaps at Keighvin using Gilbert - the ideal whale for the job |
| 20:04.35 | Keighvin | ~whaleparry graphyx |
| 20:04.36 | ibot | ACTION uses a slightly less-huge but eminently more agile killer whale named Edwardo to parry graphyx's attacks. |
| 20:04.42 | Keighvin | ~whaleimmune ^Migs^ |
| 20:04.44 | ibot | ACTION uses his Divine Shield and is immune to all ^Migs^'s physical attacks for the next 12 seconds. |
| 20:04.51 | [Utah]tristanbob | "John Cage's publishers later sued Mike Batt for having created a track at his album, Classical Graffiti, with one minute of silence. The track was named "A One Minute Silence" and credited to John Cage. An out of court settlement was reached, with Batt paying a six-figure sum to the John Cage Trust. |
| 20:05.01 | graphyx | Keighvin: Whats the name of the normal whale attack? I want to make a parry. |
| 20:05.06 | graphyx | er.. parity. |
| 20:05.25 | ^Migs^ | pfft, that's stupid. It doesn't make you immune, just ibot |
| 20:05.27 | Keighvin | ~whaleslap graphyx |
| 20:05.29 | ibot | ACTION beats graphyx upside and over the head with a freakishly huge killer whale named Hugh |
| 20:05.30 | ^Migs^ | ~whaleslap Keighvin |
| 20:05.32 | ibot | ACTION beats Keighvin upside and over the head with a freakishly huge killer whale named Hugh |
| 20:05.49 | Keighvin | ~whaleriposte ^Migs^ |
| 20:05.50 | ibot | ACTION follows a parry by riposting ^Migs^'s attack with an aerodynamic whale called Mickey |
| 20:08.04 | graphyx | how do you program ibot to do an emote versus a reply? |
| 20:08.17 | ^Migs^ | how do you program ibot to stfu? |
| 20:08.38 | graphyx | I thought /ignore ibot did that one. |
| 20:08.56 | ^Migs^ | no, then ibot just spreads lies about you behind your back |
| 20:09.16 | Keighvin | ibot: literal cmd: whaleparry (.*?) |
| 20:09.18 | ibot | "cmd: whaleparry (.*?)" is "($1): <action>uses a slightly less-huge but eminently more agile killer whale named Edwardo to parry $1's attacks." |
| 20:11.54 | Tene | graphyx: foo is <action> actions. |
| 20:12.15 | graphyx | Tene, I got it. Thanks. |
| 20:12.45 | goozbach | I wonder how many whale* commands there are |
| 20:12.48 | goozbach | ... |
| 20:12.55 | Tene | ibot: whalestar |
| 20:14.09 | Keighvin | goozbach: 16 |
| 20:14.27 | graphyx | ~whailslap ^Migs^ |
| 20:14.28 | ibot | ACTION beets ^Migs^ upside and oven the head with a freakishly huge and slightly mispelled kiler whail maned Hue. |
| 20:14.38 | Keighvin | LOL! |
| 20:15.38 | Keighvin | Wow - I wonder who created these? |
| 20:15.43 | Keighvin | ~blasd a sdfae!! whailslap graphyx |
| 20:15.45 | ibot | beets graphyx upslide and oven teh haed with a freekishly huge kiler whail maned Hue. |
| 20:16.15 | *** join/#utah Robdor (n=Robdor@208.187.198.179) |
| 20:16.36 | Keighvin | ~blasd a sdfae!! whailslap Robdor |
| 20:16.37 | ibot | beets Robdor upslide and oven teh haed with a freekishly huge kiler whail maned Hue. |
| 20:17.40 | graphyx | ibot, forget blasd a sdfae!! whailslap |
| 20:17.40 | ibot | i didn't have anything called 'blasd a sdfae!! whailslap' to forget, graphyx |
| 20:18.06 | Keighvin | ibot: forget cmd: blasd a sdfae!! whailslap (.*?) |
| 20:18.06 | ibot | i forgot cmd: blasd a sdfae!! whailslap (.*?), Keighvin |
| 20:18.11 | graphyx | ok thanks. |
| 20:18.36 | Keighvin | n/p |
| 20:18.36 | graphyx | I didn't think it would take by putting crap in front of it. and I couldn't get it to forget it once done.. |
| 20:19.01 | graphyx | Apparently my ibot-fu is lacking. |
| 20:19.09 | graphyx | ~pwndsauce me |
| 20:19.10 | ibot | A ginormous opened bottle of Pwnsauce in the sky tips over and engulfs graphyx in a torrent of pwnsauce, leaving them with a shirt stain that reads "Pwned". |
| 20:23.56 | findlay | are python's regular expressions PCRE's? |
| 20:25.58 | atoponce | unum: so what's the plan for ugotta? |
| 20:28.09 | mheath[laptop] | yah, new books, and new CDs |
| 20:28.22 | atoponce | unum: and who/how are you gonig to target members? |
| 20:28.35 | atoponce | s/gonig/going/ |
| 20:30.19 | mheath[laptop] | I bought "Flags of our Fathers", and a book with a collection of Mark Twain quotes |
| 20:31.06 | *** join/#utah Newsome (n=sorenson@adsl-68-22-220-206.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net) |
| 20:32.34 | [Utah]tristanbob | ok - now how do I configure Evolution to use my brand-spanking-new gpg keys? |
| 20:32.35 | Tene | ibot: whoami |
| 20:32.37 | ibot | you are tene, or n=tene@poipu/supporter/slacker/tene on #utah and it's 2006.11.08. Don't believe me? Ask harleypig! |
| 20:32.53 | Tene | ibot: harleypig |
| 20:32.55 | ibot | hmm... harleypig is learned how to read @ 16:55 on 2006-10-18, or the local RMS figure, or a PITA!. Hagrid's stunt double |
| 20:33.06 | Tene | ibot: whois harleypig |
| 20:35.29 | atoponce | hagrid's stunt double. lol |
| 20:36.51 | graphyx | ~whoami |
| 20:36.53 | ibot | you are graphyx, or n=graphyx@205.208.245.105 on #utah and it's 2006.11.08. Don't believe me? Ask ^Migs^! |
| 20:37.59 | graphyx | Keighvin: What state parameters does Ibot keep? I mean I know it keeps tabs on people in the channel, messages, when last active, last message. But what else does it keep track of? |
| 20:38.27 | findlay | graphyx: ibot keeps full logs |
| 20:38.47 | Jayce^ | graphyx, what you ate for lunch, your favorite download sites, etc.. |
| 20:38.50 | findlay | oh, misunderstood your question |
| 20:39.46 | findlay | does he know my favorite cereal? |
| 20:40.18 | Tene | ibot: findlay |
| 20:40.23 | findlay | guess not |
| 20:40.27 | Jayce^ | findlay, yes, but only because she analyzes your waste material |
| 20:40.37 | Tene | ibot: findlay is <reply> findlay hates cereal |
| 20:40.38 | ibot | ACTION recreationally nmaps is <reply> findlay hates cereal. |
| 20:40.38 | Keighvin | ibot: findlay Tene |
| 20:40.39 | ibot | ACTION recreationally nmaps Tene. |
| 20:40.48 | Tene | Heh |
| 20:41.04 | Keighvin | graphyx: regarding the tabs, I think it's actually converted to white space (4-stop). |
| 20:41.09 | Keighvin | I am, of course, just kidding. |
| 20:41.17 | Keighvin | I'm not sure what its stateful variable are. |
| 20:41.18 | Tene | ibot: \t |
| 20:41.29 | findlay | ibot: tell me the state |
| 20:41.34 | findlay | of your state |
| 20:41.36 | Tene | ibot: tab |
| 20:41.37 | ibot | well, tab is part of the varndean crew, slightly slimy at times though, or how much one owes at the bar, or never mine, or clear |
| 20:44.47 | Tene | how to strip a string of newlines in perl? |
| 20:45.55 | Keighvin | Tene: |
| 20:46.02 | Keighvin | comp( $string ); |
| 20:46.06 | lukfugl | chomp |
| 20:46.18 | Tene | Keighvin: that only kills newlines at the end of a string |
| 20:46.25 | lukfugl | ah |
| 20:46.36 | graphyx | s/[\r\n]//g? |
| 20:46.36 | Tene | "foo\nbar\nbaz\n" becomes "foo\nbar\nbaz" with chomp |
| 20:46.44 | lukfugl | $string =~ s/[\n\r]//g; |
| 20:46.46 | Keighvin | Right. |
| 20:46.57 | graphyx | yeah I got it right!!! |
| 20:47.00 | Tene | yeah, looks like that's what the person I was asking on behalf of just tried |
| 20:48.30 | findlay | did they get it right, or did they get it wrong? |
| 20:48.46 | Tene | get it right |
| 20:50.31 | levi | Heh, the incumbent must have really sucked in this race: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15622299/ |
| 20:51.10 | lukfugl | ouch |
| 20:51.17 | graphyx | The only good democrat in office is a dead democrat? |
| 20:51.43 | levi | s/democrat/politician/ |
| 20:52.04 | graphyx | s/democrat/politician/ |
| 20:52.04 | findlay | s/politician/*/ |
| 20:52.25 | findlay | graphyx: s/democrat/politician/g |
| 20:52.35 | graphyx | s/n\//n\/g/ |
| 20:52.48 | graphyx | come on ibot, no recursion? |
| 20:52.57 | lukfugl | heh |
| 21:02.42 | unum | atoponce: that's a good question |
| 21:03.03 | unum | I'm going to announce it to the lug lists(once I have a meeting scheduled) |
| 21:04.19 | mheath[laptop] | www.mcrdsd.usmc.mil |
| 21:06.38 | mheath[laptop] | Company honorman was from 1034 . yah. |
| 21:06.51 | mheath[laptop] | ibot, platoon 1034 is the best |
| 21:06.53 | ibot | okay, mheath[laptop] |
| 21:08.13 | mheath | Gentlemen, as of now, Platoon 1034, Delta Company, does not exist anymore. You will not hear another word out of my mouth regarding it, or the Marine Corps. |
| 21:27.37 | levi | elg: Well, looks like your MacBook is no longer top of the line. |
| 21:31.24 | *** join/#utah elg_ (n=fugalh@129.81.70.216) |
| 21:55.43 | *** part/#utah ^Migs^ (i=Migs@205.122.50.21) |
| 22:02.00 | *** join/#utah fungus_ (n=fungus@shell.aros.net) |
| 22:09.26 | findlay | emcnabb: are you sure you want to trade Rumsfeld for whoever Bush replaces him with? |
| 22:11.09 | emcnabb | findlay: can't be much worse |
| 22:12.03 | emcnabb | well, I'm sure he could, but Rumsfeld was pretty bad |
| 22:12.36 | emcnabb | findlay for Secretary of Defense! |
| 22:15.25 | findlay | yeah! |
| 22:17.05 | emcnabb | SB1-Work: findlay will get you, you can't hide |
| 22:17.17 | emcnabb | just like he's helped track down Bin Laden |
| 22:17.26 | emcnabb | :-) |
| 22:17.30 | SB1-Work | Well, there are ways |
| 22:18.18 | SB1-Work | Hey |
| 22:18.26 | SB1-Work | The most he can effect would be my corpse |
| 22:18.39 | SB1-Work | At which point in time, I sure don't care! |
| 22:19.30 | findlay | emcnabb: that's some talent |
| 22:19.43 | findlay | probably so high it's inaudible |
| 22:21.03 | findlay | the first thing we're going to do is have some fun launching all the rockets we have at the moon |
| 22:21.27 | findlay | see what kind of damage we can do |
| 22:22.08 | emcnabb | will you take out mheath while you're at it? |
| 22:22.27 | lukfugl | let's hope it doesn't read ibot's logs and decide to launch a preemptive strike... |
| 22:22.41 | findlay | mheath becomes commander in chief of the armed forces |
| 22:22.47 | lukfugl | emcnabb: easy, just pust mheath on the moon |
| 22:23.23 | emcnabb | findlay: but he'll bail out within a few weeks |
| 22:23.28 | emcnabb | lukfugl: good idea :-) |
| 23:02.29 | Keighvin | ~tick |
| 23:02.31 | ibot | Not baked goods, Professor; baked bads. |
| 23:06.54 | *** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@129.81.70.216) |
| 23:30.19 | Keighvin | ~abuse redbeard1 |
| 23:30.21 | ibot | ACTION smacks redbeard1 across the face. "Take that, sucker!" |
| 23:33.16 | findlay | ~tock |
| 23:34.47 | findlay | one of my lifetime ambitions is to learn the inner functions of ibot, to plumb the depths of his genius |
| 23:36.21 | Keighvin | ~tock |
| 23:36.22 | ibot | There is no tock. Only tick. Don't tock. Got it, keighvin? |
| 23:36.39 | Keighvin | That one is just for you, findlay. |
| 23:36.47 | findlay | ~tack |
| 23:36.56 | Keighvin | D'OH! |
| 23:37.00 | findlay | heh |
| 23:37.16 | findlay | excepts that clocks don't tack |
| 23:37.25 | findlay | only boats do |
| 23:38.26 | *** join/#utah Mystery_Mark (n=none@158.91.242.124) |
| 23:39.25 | *** join/#utah fozzmoo (n=fozz@65.89.234.66) |
| 23:39.33 | fozzmoo | ~seen goozbach |
| 23:39.49 | ibot | goozbach is currently on #utah (1d 23h 43m 5s). Has said a total of 114 messages. Is idling for 3h 27m 1s, last said: '...'. |
| 23:39.49 | fozzmoo | ~seek Tene |
| 23:39.52 | ibot | ACTION launches a heat-seeking missile at Tene |
| 23:41.53 | findlay | what's a good cd player program? |
| 23:42.00 | Keighvin | workbone |
| 23:42.18 | fozzmoo | kscd? |
| 23:42.27 | fozzmoo | cdp? |
| 23:42.27 | fozzmoo | cdplay? |
| 23:42.35 | Keighvin | gcd |
| 23:43.07 | *** join/#utah bonez39 (n=bonez@drjones.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 23:43.07 | fozzmoo | Wow. cdp and cdplay aren't even std packages anymore. |
| 23:43.30 | goozbach | fozzmoo: pong |
| 23:43.34 | findlay | will aplay do it? |
| 23:43.58 | findlay | anybody ever used cdfs? |
| 23:44.16 | Mystery_Mark | it works |
| 23:44.20 | Mystery_Mark | not well though |
| 23:44.23 | fozzmoo | I was going to say, you'd have to use a cdfs. |
| 23:44.34 | fozzmoo | goozbach: hi |
| 23:44.36 | findlay | why isn't cdfs in the main kernel? |
| 23:45.01 | Lone_Wanderer | ~tick |
| 23:45.05 | ibot | SPOON! |
| 23:45.10 | findlay | ~tock |
| 23:45.11 | ibot | There is no tock. Only tick. Don't tock. Got it, findlay? |
| 23:45.14 | fozzmoo | It's just weird enough to not make it. |
| 23:45.23 | findlay | hm |
| 23:45.26 | Lone_Wanderer | <3 the Tick. And now, I must away. |
| 23:45.32 | findlay | not in portage |
| 23:45.57 | findlay | hard to stay on top of when you change kernels as frequently as me (: |
| 23:46.44 | Supaplex | fungus: you still @werk? :) |
| 23:47.02 | fungus | Yup |
| 23:47.20 | findlay | hm, looks like there's an audiofs |
| 23:48.29 | Supaplex | like digital audio extract0ring of redbook cds? |
| 23:49.50 | Tene | ~nuke fozz |
| 23:49.51 | ibot | ACTION prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at fozz ... B☢☢M! |
| 23:50.21 | fozzmoo | wheeee! |
| 23:50.36 | fozzmoo | goozbach: pffft! |
| 23:50.49 | findlay | ~whalenuke Tene |
| 23:51.16 | Supaplex | irssi must escape unicode ... |
| 23:51.28 | findlay | ~escape unicode |
| 23:51.52 | findlay | :q |
| 23:51.57 | findlay | sorry |
