irclog2html for #utah on 20061103

`00:00.22`	`Sargun`	`Hahaha`
`00:00.42`	`graphyx`	`iirc = if I recall correctly.`
`00:01.31`	`graphyx`	`~~/ My I'm large! /~~ ~\o`
`00:01.45`	`[Utah]tristanbob`	`Sargun: http://status.blogger.com/`
`00:01.45`	`graphyx`	o/` o/`
`00:02.16`	`Sargun`	`I'll update to FF2.0 in a few weeks`
`00:02.49`	`Sargun`	`once the coolness of it blows off`
`00:02.49`	`Sargun`	`over`
`00:03.14`	`graphyx`	`It will still be cool in 2 weeks.`
`00:03.17`	`graphyx`	`sorry`
`00:03.57`	`[Utah]tristanbob`	`Sargun: also http://buzz.blogger.com/`
`00:04.15`	`[Utah]tristanbob`	`Sargun: true, FF is as cool as an IceWeasel`
`00:04.21`	`[Utah]tristanbob`	`it's that cool`
`00:06.24`	`*** join/#utah ScytheBlade1 (n=Death@about/pxe/ScytheBlade1)`
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`00:31.49`	`*** join/#utah jnbek (n=jnbek@c-24-10-178-17.hsd1.ut.comcast.net)`
`00:39.55`	`Sargun`	`hi`
`00:41.33`	`*** join/#utah tiwula (n=lane@64-52-97-250.client.cypresscom.net)`
`00:46.20`	`mheath`	`Hello.`
`00:46.37`	`mheath`	`Officers meeting for USNSCC`
`00:46.46`	`mheath`	`Wearing these hideous khakis.`
`00:47.37`	`Sargun`	`haha`
`00:51.47`	`*** join/#utah herlo (n=clints@63.81.22.253)`
`01:26.00`	`*** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@falcon.fugal.net)`
`01:34.21`	`elg`	`~lart vontrapp`
`01:43.09`	`*** join/#utah herlo (n=clints@65.223.8.130)`
`01:46.17`	`Sargun`	`So, who here dressed their cats, dogs, children, or other items they are responsible for as *nix related things?`
`01:46.47`	`elg`	`does a vampire count?`
`01:47.00`	`Sargun`	`sadly no.`
`01:48.04`	`levi_home`	`Not me.`
`01:48.51`	`levi_home`	`Mmmm, brats on the stove.`
`01:49.28`	`Sargun`	`you cooked them?`
`01:49.36`	`levi_home`	`My wife is cooking them.`
`01:49.46`	`Sargun`	`cool.`
`01:51.24`	`elg`	`that's one way to deal with them`
`01:52.16`	`Sargun`	`sausage...`
`01:52.35`	`levi_home`	`Hmm?`
`01:53.00`	`levi_home`	`Oh, Bratwurst, not brats as in mheath and Sargun. ;)`
`01:53.16`	`Sargun`	`-_-`
`01:53.45`	`levi_home`	`Sargun: Only kidding. :)`
`02:05.25`	`Sargun`	`So scary!`
`02:05.27`	`Sargun`	`Run away!`
`02:09.32`	`Sargun`	`Where can I get a temporary forwarding e-mail?`
`02:10.10`	`elg`	`gmail`
`02:10.43`	`Sargun`	`lol`
`02:12.16`	`*** part/#utah herlo (n=clints@65.223.8.130)`
`02:18.48`	`*** join/#utah herlo (n=clints@65.223.8.130)`
`02:23.33`	`findlay`	`~/.forward`
`02:25.39`	`goozbach`	`a redhat trainer for halloween`
`02:25.40`	`goozbach`	`ohh`
`02:25.49`	`goozbach`	`where'd ya trick or teach?`
`02:26.17`	`levi_home`	`I wore my Microsoft Visual C++ .net t-shirt to work on Halloween.`
`02:26.49`	`findlay`	`now that's enough to scare ibot`
`02:38.38`	`*** join/#utah TimRiker (n=timr@c-71-199-26-163.hsd1.co.comcast.net)`
`02:38.38`	`*** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ`
`02:41.57`	`Sargun`	`Give me something that's good, clean, and fun.`
`03:00.54`	`herlo`	`goozbach: I Trick or Teached in San Francisco of all places. 7 people were shot in the Castro tooo`
`03:01.11`	`Sargun`	`haha`
`03:01.26`	`herlo`	`but I wasn't in the Castro...`
`03:01.29`	`goozbach`	`herlo: that's good`
`03:01.36`	`goozbach`	`downtown SF?`
`03:01.38`	`herlo`	`goozbach: yep`
`03:01.46`	`goozbach`	`say hi to rose for me`
`03:01.50`	`herlo`	`at the Microtek facility`
`03:01.57`	`goozbach`	`ohh nevermind then`
`03:01.58`	`herlo`	`no Rose here that I know of...`
`03:02.06`	`herlo`	`Annie and Chris`
`03:02.48`	`goozbach`	`Rose is at the Mt view RH facility`
`03:02.50`	`goozbach`	`my bad`
`03:03.09`	`Sargun`	`goozbach, Rose is at MV`
`03:03.15`	`Sargun`	`oh`
`03:03.17`	`Sargun`	`nvm`
`03:12.44`	`goozbach`	`BRIAN REGAN IS COMIING TO SLC!!!!!!!`
`03:18.09`	`*** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@falcon.fugal.net)`
`03:30.45`	`*** part/#utah graphyx (n=graphyx@205.208.245.105)`
`03:38.28`	`herlo`	`goozbach: MV as in Silicon Valley?`
`03:38.41`	`goozbach`	`yeah, i got wires crossed somewheres`
`03:38.55`	`herlo`	`goozbach: is that different from the Santa Clara facility?`
`03:39.08`	`goozbach`	`yup`
`03:39.13`	`goozbach`	`Mountain View`
`03:39.16`	`herlo`	`okay, not yet been there`
`03:39.38`	`herlo`	`yeah, knew that it was Mountain View, just didn't realize there were two training centers so close to each other`
`03:39.46`	`goozbach`	`just around the way from google's MV facilityes`
`03:40.16`	`goozbach`	`ok time to medicate myself to sleep`
`03:40.22`	`herlo`	`gnight`
`03:40.27`	`goozbach`	`beer!`
`03:40.51`	`herlo`	`mmm, beeer.... <Homer />`
`03:41.00`	`goozbach`	`well not beer`
`03:41.09`	`herlo`	`lol`
`03:41.11`	`goozbach`	`but alka seltzer nightnime`
`03:41.28`	`goozbach`	`which is about the same for me`
`03:43.28`	`*** join/#utah billfur (n=billfur@atarack/member/billfur)`
`03:43.38`	`elg`	`heh`
`03:46.50`	`*** join/#utah Spark420 (n=tracekil@c-24-5-239-236.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)`
`03:46.56`	`Spark420`	`HELLO UTAH!!!!!!!!!!!!`
`03:47.00`	`*** join/#utah ryantrip (n=ryantrip@c-24-4-33-56.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)`
`03:47.06`	`Spark420`	`Oh god.`
`03:47.09`	`Spark420`	`Get him out.`
`03:47.17`	`Spark420`	`Ryan would you stop following me everywhere?`
`03:47.20`	`ryantrip`	`spark what is wrong with you?`
`03:47.28`	`billfur`	`oh god`
`03:47.38`	`Spark420`	`You're wrong with me`
`03:47.44`	`ryantrip`	`i did nothing to you`
`03:48.28`	`Spark420`	`I`
`03:48.38`	`Spark420`	`I'm generally offended by ignorant people are retards.`
`03:49.01`	`ryantrip`	`...`
`03:49.04`	`*** part/#utah billfur (n=billfur@atarack/member/billfur)`
`03:52.08`	`*** mode/#utah [+o goozbach] by ChanServ`
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`03:57.29`	`*** part/#utah billfur (n=billfur@atarack/member/billfur)`
`04:01.30`	`*** join/#utah hatchmt (n=mhatch@71-219-20-54.slkc.qwest.net)`
`04:19.34`	`Sargun`	`checking for i686-pc-linux-gnu-g++... i686-pc-linux-gnu-g++`
`04:19.35`	`Sargun`	`checking for C++ compiler default output file name... configure: error: C++ compiler cannot create executables`
`04:19.35`	`Sargun`	See `config.log' for more details.
`04:20.10`	`Sargun`	`Whats the C++ version of:`
`04:20.10`	`Sargun`	`DCC SEND "startkeytrogger" 0 0 0`
`04:20.12`	`Sargun`	`er`
`04:20.15`	`Sargun`	`wrong thing`
`04:20.15`	`Sargun`	`int main(){ return 0; }`
`04:20.18`	`*** join/#utah QBFreak (n=qbfreak@cpe-069-132-229-120.carolina.res.rr.com)`
`04:20.22`	`Sargun`	`hides`
`04:21.01`	`*** join/#utah spr (n=spr@c-24-10-229-14.hsd1.ut.comcast.net)`
`04:24.20`	`maquis`	`~language Spark420`
`04:24.30`	`ibot`	`ACTION grabs Spark420 by the ear and washes Spark420's mouth out with soap`
`04:24.30`	`maquis`	`(sorry... it's a bit late)`
`04:25.22`	`Sargun`	`lol`
`04:28.24`	`nick125_lappy`	`lol`
`04:41.40`	`maquis`	`wow, it's scary when you look at code and can't figure out what you were trying to do`
`04:42.03`	`maquis`	`i create a file, then i have a line that's commented out (and doesn't belong where it is at all), and then i close the file`
`04:42.45`	`Sargun`	`heh`
`04:42.49`	`Sargun`	`what language?`
`04:43.26`	`maquis`	`java`
`04:43.57`	`Tene`	`Ahh. That explains it.`
`04:44.00`	`Sargun`	`haha`
`04:49.30`	`*** join/#utah calvarez (n=calvarez@r82h185.res.gatech.edu)`
`04:49.54`	`calvarez`	`~blamebush ibot is stupid`
`04:49.56`	`ibot`	`Obviously, it is the current administration's fault that ibot is stupid.`
`04:50.34`	`mheath`	`~blameclinton ibot is stupid`
`04:50.36`	`ibot`	`okay, mheath`
`04:50.59`	`mheath`	`Please tell me it didn't just set the factoid ibot to 'stupid`
`04:51.06`	`mheath`	`ibot: ibot`
`04:51.08`	`ibot`	`i heard ibot is a blootbot written in perl run by TimRiker on his server. logs on http://ibot.rikers.org/<chan>/ , ibot, jbot, apt are all the same process. It uses sqlite, but mysql or other SQL storage is also supported.`
`04:51.36`	`maquis`	`ibot: blameclinton ibot`
`04:51.37`	`ibot`	`extra, extra, read all about it, blameclinton ibot is stupid`
`04:51.45`	`mheath`	`ibot: no, blameclinton $foo is <reply>No, it is obviously the previous administrations fault.`
`04:51.47`	`ibot`	`okay, mheath`
`04:51.56`	`mheath`	`ibot: no, blameclinton $foo is <reply>No, it is obviously the previous administrations fault that $foo.`
`04:51.58`	`ibot`	`okay, mheath`
`04:51.58`	`Spark420`	`OH NO YOU DIDNT!!`
`04:52.20`	`mheath`	`O.o`
`04:52.25`	`mheath`	`~blameclinton Spark420 is being stupid`
`04:52.27`	`ibot`	`No, it is obviously the previous administrations fault that Spark420 is being stupid.`
`04:52.54`	`*** mode/#utah [+o maquis] by ChanServ`
`04:52.57`	`Sargun`	`haha`
`04:53.07`	`mheath`	`maquis: bah, I was joking :(`
`04:53.17`	`mheath`	`oh, hah.`
`04:53.17`	`maquis`	`mheath: i have no problem with what you did`
`04:53.26`	`maquis`	`in fact, i tend to agree more with it`
`04:53.34`	`maquis`	`i just needed a power-trip`
`04:53.40`	`mheath`	`I don't. It was silly and sarcastic.`
`04:54.37`	`maquis`	`ok... is it possible to cvs checkout to a dir that is not the current working dir?`
`04:55.57`	`calvarez`	`only in the process of quadric ultraconvergence with multiparallel diafragma in the zenith`
`04:56.11`	`calvarez`	`does that help?`
`04:56.21`	`Tene`	`doesn't look like it`
`04:56.33`	`Spark420`	`LOLOLOLS`
`04:56.35`	`maquis`	`calvarez: was that a yes or a no?`
`04:56.55`	`maquis`	`~whaleslap Spark420`
`04:56.56`	`ibot`	`ACTION beats Spark420 upside and over the head with a freakishly huge killer whale named Hugh`
`04:57.10`	`*** join/#utah TheTiGuR (n=chris@206.251.255.218)`
`04:57.15`	`Spark420`	`~whaleslap maquis`
`04:57.16`	`ibot`	`ACTION beats maquis upside and over the head with a freakishly huge killer whale named Hugh`
`04:57.16`	`Spark420`	`yay,`
`04:57.26`	`calvarez`	`maquis, it depends on the dimension`
`04:57.37`	`mheath`	`~whaleparry Spark420`
`04:57.38`	`ibot`	`ACTION uses a slightly less-huge but eminently more agile killer whale named Edwardo to parry Spark420's attacks.`
`04:57.38`	`maquis`	`calvarez: i'd like too do it in the real world`
`04:57.51`	`Tene`	`maquis: man cvs says "is created in the directory from which the checkout command was invoked", so probably no`
`04:58.08`	`maquis`	`grumble`
`04:58.30`	`calvarez`	`if you can find the eigenvalues of the quadragesimal in the process of discontinous hyperdeterministic ellipsoidetorum, I'd say, why not?`
`04:58.50`	`Tene`	`calvarez: that's really annoying and useless`
`04:58.57`	`maquis`	`<PROTECTED>`
`04:59.09`	`calvarez`	`Tene, NO WAY!!!`
`04:59.10`	`vontrapp`	`~cookie mheath`
`04:59.14`	`mheath`	`Start college, AND go into the military.`
`04:59.57`	`mheath`	`xbmodder knows Japanese?`
`04:59.59`	`calvarez`	`hmm, ok`
`04:59.59`	`vontrapp`	`you know japanese?`
`05:00.03`	`calvarez`	`we need controversy`
`05:00.06`	`mheath`	`Er, japenese.`
`05:00.14`	`mheath`	`*japenese`
`05:00.19`	`calvarez`	`lol`
`05:00.23`	`mheath`	`Gah, its even difficult to misspell it`
`05:00.28`	`mheath`	`~japenese`
`05:00.29`	`ibot`	`[japenese] a language that mheath, and xbmodder know`
`05:00.39`	`mheath`	`ibot: forget japenese`
`05:00.39`	`ibot`	`mheath: i forgot japenese`
`05:00.44`	`mheath`	`ibot: xbmoder is also a moron`
`05:00.46`	`ibot`	`okay, mheath`
`05:00.50`	`calvarez`	`lol`
`05:00.57`	`Tene`	`ibot: japanese`
`05:00.58`	`ibot`	`i guess japanese is a foreign programming language`
`05:01.05`	`calvarez`	`lol`
`05:01.10`	`mheath`	`programming in Japanese...`
`05:01.14`	`Tene`	`perl6!`
`05:01.20`	`Tene`	`unicode ftw!`
`05:01.24`	`maquis`	`pugs is pretty cool`
`05:01.45`	`calvarez`	`ok, here is a pearl of wisdom: perl has no uses beyond parsing strings`
`05:01.46`	`calvarez`	`;)`
`05:01.52`	`Tene`	`use a kanji-named function on a variable with a tibetan name?`
`05:02.22`	`Tene`	`hehe`
`05:02.26`	`calvarez`	`lol`
`05:03.00`	`nick125_lappy`	`lol`
`05:03.19`	`calvarez`	`obviously, C++ is superior to perl in all aspects except text parsing`
`05:04.07`	`maquis`	`calvarez: pugs actually looks like it should be quite usable and nice`
`05:04.13`	`nick125_lappy`	`and, for applications that don't need speed or something special, such as device access, python really makes a good choice too`
`05:04.17`	`Tene`	`ack`
`05:04.25`	`Tene`	`my cd drive randomly ejected itself again`
`05:04.38`	`Tene`	`I need to move the box for it to fully extend in order to convince it to retract`
`05:04.38`	`calvarez`	`wow`
`05:04.47`	`maquis`	`i got to hear audrey tang present on it, and it was pretty interesting`
`05:04.51`	`calvarez`	`like, the whole drive jumped out of the bay?`
`05:05.04`	`Tene`	`/ignore calvarez`
`05:05.18`	`calvarez`	`hey, it was a joke :p`
`05:05.47`	`Tene`	`maquis: I got it running a few days ago. Pretty nice.`
`05:05.54`	`calvarez`	`"joke" as in "funny", "laughs" and "happy"`
`05:06.07`	`Spark420`	`OH BABY GURL`
`05:06.41`	`calvarez`	`~cerebellum Spark420`
`05:06.43`	`ibot`	`Spark420, YOU GOT CEREBELLUM'D!! http://ist-socrates.berkeley.edu/~btvoytek/images/classes/cerebellumd.gif`
`05:11.06`	`calvarez`	`~whatiscerebellum`
`05:11.07`	`ibot`	`Getting cerebellum'd means getting killed by some mysterious waves emanating from a giant floating brain with a black patch on its eye and controlled by a guy in suit and tie. Please refer to http://ist-socrates.berkeley.edu/~btvoytek/images/classes/cerebellumd.gif`
`05:12.28`	`Spark420`	`LOLS?!?EONE`
`05:17.00`	`Spark420`	`ROFLSKATES!!oneeone`
`05:21.01`	`calvarez`	`it rofl's my waffles`
`05:23.20`	`*** part/#utah Newsome (n=sorenson@adsl-75-0-136-70.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net)`
`05:35.57`	`*** join/#utah ryantrip (n=ryantrip@c-24-4-33-56.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)`
`05:38.57`	`maquis`	`gnight all`
`05:46.02`	`levi_home`	`maquis: G'night.`
`05:46.11`	`Tene`	`g'night`
`05:46.13`	`Sargun`	`Call 712-432-5145 and enter conference 5678 ;-)`
`05:47.48`	`levi_home`	`mheath: Joining ROTC is the wisest military-related decision you could make, short of avoiding it altogether.`
`05:48.06`	`levi_home`	`calvarez: pugs is way cooler than C++ :P`
`05:55.12`	`*** join/#utah linuxalien (i=linuxali@gateway/tor/x-097a2a3df473e750)`
`06:05.23`	`Tene`	`Wait a second... this isn't candy...`
`06:05.38`	`Tene`	`These are pieces of GPL! Aaauuugghh! I've been infected!`
`06:05.49`	`Tene`	`Bloody viral licenses.`
`06:19.23`	`levi_home`	`The GPL is a reasonable document, but insisting that all software use it is not so much.`
`06:22.35`	`calvarez`	`levi_home, I agree with your last statement`
`06:22.49`	`calvarez`	`I don't like the little "moral" tone that RMS takes on`
`06:23.03`	`calvarez`	`FOSS is good, it promotes freedom, etc`
`06:23.20`	`calvarez`	`but the whole "those who make non-FOSS are antisocials" crap has to end`
`06:23.30`	`calvarez`	`it does not help the community`
`06:24.00`	`calvarez`	`so, it will end, or I'll have to unsheath my spoon`
`06:24.50`	`findlay`	`~good night maquis`
`06:24.51`	`ibot`	`Good night maquis, good! Have a cookie... oh no! The cookie jar is dry!`
`06:25.23`	`calvarez`	`I'll have to unsheath my neutering spoon`
`06:25.47`	`levi_home`	`RMS is a genius, but also clearly insane and rather anti-social himself.`
`06:26.04`	`calvarez`	`nah, he ain't no genius`
`06:26.18`	`calvarez`	`he obviously has not considered all the implications his ideas have`
`06:26.34`	`calvarez`	`fanaticism is pretty incompatible with genius`
`06:26.34`	`levi_home`	`Well, not on the scale of Einstein or whatever. His strengths are in writing software, not politics.`
`06:26.40`	`findlay`	`there are several moral, technical, and practical arguments against proprietary software`
`06:26.47`	`calvarez`	`levi_home, you mean rhetorics`
`06:26.58`	`calvarez`	`levi_home, verbosity is a skill, it is not genius`
`06:27.01`	`levi_home`	`calvarez: Either one.`
`06:27.04`	`findlay`	`just because RMS uses one doesn't mean they are all wrong`
`06:27.26`	`calvarez`	`findlay, I see the technical and practical arguments`
`06:27.33`	`levi_home`	`calvarez: RMS used to be an uber-hacker. Now he's a blowhard.`
`06:27.47`	`findlay`	`calvarez: you seem to have a rather strong bias against Stallman`
`06:27.53`	`calvarez`	`findlay, yes, I do`
`06:28.00`	`calvarez`	`findlay, I strongly oppose his activism`
`06:28.16`	`calvarez`	`and I think his ideas hurt the FOSS more than help it`
`06:28.20`	`findlay`	`what's wrong with it?`
`06:28.30`	`findlay`	`no`
`06:28.32`	`levi_home`	`I don't oppose his activism, but I oppose the people who take him too seriously.`
`06:28.45`	`calvarez`	`we don't need more RMS stereotype clones, it simply does not help promote the OSS model`
`06:28.48`	`findlay`	`in the end it doesn't matter what is percieced, in the end it matters what is done`
`06:28.53`	`calvarez`	`no, I oppose his activism`
`06:29.05`	`findlay`	`who cares what people think about RMS`
`06:29.07`	`calvarez`	`findlay, exactly, and what he's doing is the problem`
`06:29.07`	`levi_home`	`And I wish he would shut up and go back to writing software.`
`06:29.34`	`calvarez`	`levi_home, I totally agree, he should go back to writing emacs and other things to pacify himself`
`06:29.34`	`findlay`	`thus all of your opinions are meaningless as well`
`06:29.52`	`calvarez`	`findlay, nah they ain't meaningless`
`06:29.53`	`findlay`	`quite ironic actually`
`06:30.18`	`findlay`	`complaining about RMS won't get you anyting`
`06:30.24`	`calvarez`	`findlay, exactly`
`06:30.30`	`findlay`	`so why do it?`
`06:30.34`	`calvarez`	`findlay, that's what I am a FOSS advocate`
`06:30.36`	`calvarez`	`for fun, findlay`
`06:30.41`	`calvarez`	`in a way, it helps`
`06:30.43`	`levi_home`	`His activism was a motivational force to get the whole 'FOSS' thing started, but it's too extreme to actually adopt.`
`06:30.44`	`findlay`	`no`
`06:30.48`	`calvarez`	`it helps expose the problem`
`06:30.53`	`findlay`	`I want a belligerent response!`
`06:31.19`	`calvarez`	`helping others see why they're part of the problem is an ethical thing to do`
`06:31.32`	`findlay`	`indeed`
`06:32.01`	`calvarez`	`when people start seeing the whole "bad corporate America!1" is meaningless, we'll start making progress in the right direction`
`06:32.11`	`calvarez`	`and that's the big summary of RMS's stuff`
`06:32.26`	`levi_home`	`I am glad that extreme crackpots exist; they help to keep things in perspective, as long as not too many people buy into their rantings.`
`06:32.33`	`findlay`	`I dislile proprietary software ethically, technically, and practically, therefore I don't use it and I don't care to use it`
`06:32.41`	`calvarez`	`nah, levi_home, that ain't true`
`06:32.59`	`calvarez`	`the whole idea that extremes cancel each other out works in physics, not in human relations`
`06:33.17`	`calvarez`	`outliers just mess up the average, you know`
`06:33.29`	`findlay`	`I wish people would realize that it's a thing we don't need`
`06:33.32`	`calvarez`	`findlay, that's fine in a personal level`
`06:33.42`	`calvarez`	`whether we need it or not is irrelevant`
`06:33.53`	`levi_home`	`I don't mean that they cancel each other out, but often there's a grain of truth there that can nudge the average in the right direction.`
`06:33.57`	`findlay`	`calvarez: I think you misunderstand`
`06:34.22`	`calvarez`	`levi_home, I'm sure you can find all the grains of truth you need without a need for outliers`
`06:34.36`	`calvarez`	`findlay, what do I misunderstand?`
`06:35.26`	`findlay`	`I dislike proprietary software in the same way I dislike patent trolls (which have existed as long as patents themselves) and other types of behavior that take advantage of the good will of society`
`06:35.30`	`calvarez`	`findlay, I tend to think that when people use patronizing statements such as "you don't understand", it's a sign that the argument will go downhill from this point on`
`06:35.54`	`calvarez`	`I think there is a big difference between patents and propietary software`
`06:35.56`	`levi_home`	`calvarez: Actually, it's very hard for ideas to get heard over the noise if there's not someone screaming them at the top of their lungs and carrying them to extremes. Those who are actively seeking ideas can find them, but most people aren't active seekers.`
`06:36.01`	`findlay`	`calvarez: it seems that you think proprietary software is necessary. I emphatically disagree and wish it would go away`
`06:36.18`	`vontrapp`	`or it could mean the person feels misunderstood and will try to reword his opinion to be better understood`
`06:36.25`	`Tene`	`calvarez: what's necessary about the idea of proprietary software?`
`06:36.37`	`calvarez`	`levi_home, I think concepts find ways to sip through the cracks a lot easier than that. I don't think screaming at the top of your lungs is that essential`
`06:36.47`	`findlay`	`heh, don't put my words in his mouth`
`06:36.56`	`calvarez`	`findlay, I do not think propietary software is necessary. But I don't see why it is unnecessary`
`06:36.57`	`levi_home`	`calvarez: Well, you may be right, but I'm not sure.`
`06:37.35`	`findlay`	`calvarez: the world would be a better place without it`
`06:37.37`	`levi_home`	`Perhaps the current 'FOSS' community would exist in some form today without the work of Stallman, but I'm not sure about it.`
`06:37.51`	`calvarez`	`findlay, the fact is that non-FOSS exists, and it works as a model (in the sense that it provides options). FOSS is a model that gives people other options.`
`06:37.54`	`findlay`	`I think it would`
`06:37.56`	`calvarez`	`findlay, explain why`
`06:38.14`	`findlay`	`calvarez: its all about freedom`
`06:39.06`	`calvarez`	`levi_home, I don't condemn Stallman's work with regards to starting the FOSS movement. I condemn the underlying ideology though, and I'm glad more moderate tones of it gained greater momentum`
`06:39.50`	`findlay`	`why do you condemn it?`
`06:40.10`	`calvarez`	`findlay, exactly. So, developers have the freedom to make FOSS and non-FOSS. People have the freedom to choose non-FOSS and enter in a contract with the developer at their own will, or use FOSS and have less restrictive terms, or make their own software, or do without it`
`06:40.22`	`levi_home`	`calvarez: I understand what you're saying, but I'm not as sure as you are about it.`
`06:40.24`	`findlay`	`indeed`
`06:40.32`	`calvarez`	`I condemn it because there is nothing immoral about non-FOSS`
`06:40.41`	`calvarez`	`and RMS says there is`
`06:41.12`	`findlay`	`it's all about perception`
`06:41.14`	`vontrapp`	`just because you disagree with an opinion doesn't mean you have to condemn it`
`06:41.27`	`calvarez`	`and his activism incubates an ideology that is not conducive to the adoption of FOSS by non-computer-savvy people`
`06:41.40`	`Tene`	`calvarez: do you condemn all religious teachings that you don't believe?`
`06:41.44`	`calvarez`	`vontrapp, no, I condemn it because it produces negative consequences`
`06:41.51`	`calvarez`	`Tene, no`
`06:42.07`	`calvarez`	`Tene, unless I have a strong motivation to believe they're doing harm`
`06:42.35`	`findlay`	`calvarez: that's a logical point of view`
`06:42.43`	`calvarez`	`indeed`
`06:43.01`	`findlay`	`but I stop short of joining you in condemning`
`06:43.04`	`calvarez`	`I believe RMS's activism does harm, and thus I condemn it`
`06:43.10`	`calvarez`	`that's fine`
`06:43.25`	`findlay`	`just because that's how I am`
`06:43.31`	`vontrapp`	`going to the dentist harms me, but it's still good for me`
`06:43.52`	`findlay`	`I try my best not to make negative judgements of people if possible`
`06:44.04`	`calvarez`	`vontrapp, you need to explain the relationship between that comment and my argument`
`06:44.11`	`findlay`	`heh`
`06:44.13`	`vontrapp`	`calvarez: i don't agree wholly with stallman, but who can tell what good and what harm comes of his push`
`06:44.17`	`calvarez`	`findlay, I do too. My condemnation isn't given lightly`
`06:44.39`	`calvarez`	`vontrapp, I don't deny there are good consequences coming from RMS's work`
`06:44.43`	`levi_home`	`I wish RMS would switch to evangelizing Lisp. Then most of his FSF followers would forsake him, and the remainder would make a bunch of cool Lisp stuff instead of trying to convert people to Free Software principles.`
`06:44.55`	`calvarez`	`but I think that, at the present time, he's doing momre harm than good`
`06:45.26`	`calvarez`	`levi_home, that'd be good. Just whatever can distract him into doing something useful`
`06:45.33`	`findlay`	`and I dispute that`
`06:45.49`	`calvarez`	`<PROTECTED>`
`06:45.53`	`calvarez`	`j/k ;)`
`06:46.16`	`levi_home`	`Darn, my op bit is gone, I can't /kick findlay. ;)`
`06:46.55`	`vontrapp`	`i really don't think rms hurts the foss movement all that much`
`06:47.01`	`findlay`	`theres a girl at my work who's mom works for the FSF`
`06:47.03`	`vontrapp`	`i rarely even hear anything of him`
`06:47.12`	`findlay`	`I'm with vontrapp`
`06:47.20`	`vontrapp`	`so i really doubt non-computer-savvy types really give a darn`
`06:47.37`	`levi_home`	`You don't hear of him, you hear of the GPL and you hear people with really distorted views about software freedom.`
`06:47.41`	`vontrapp`	`or are somehow scared away from foss by rms`
`06:47.56`	`calvarez`	`the problem is the propagation of his mentality. Most problems don't come directly from him, but rather from those who adopt his message`
`06:48.16`	`calvarez`	`vontrapp, it happens`
`06:48.19`	`findlay`	`where RMS is mainly heard is where he is most crucial, like national governments and the UN`
`06:48.34`	`calvarez`	`lol, like they gave a crap about him`
`06:48.47`	`findlay`	`I disagree`
`06:48.54`	`vontrapp`	`most problems i come across (like multiverse not enabled by default, or redhat not including mp3 support) come from actual legal concerns and not from somebody's whacked foss views`
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`06:49.25`	`calvarez`	`and explain where the ideology that underlays the legal concern comes from`
`06:49.46`	`findlay`	`what difference does that make?`
`06:49.52`	`vontrapp`	`people tend to attribute those types of things too heavily to the gpl and "it's not Free so we don't like it"`
`06:50.18`	`vontrapp`	`calvarez: legitimate legal concerns`
`06:50.34`	`vontrapp`	`not just something made up`
`06:50.46`	`levi_home`	`(i.e., someone might sue us if we distribute mp3-playing software)`
`06:50.46`	`Tene`	`"If we include mp3 support we could be sued for quite a bit of money, and made to remove it."`
`06:50.53`	`findlay`	`calvarez: I think you're confusing the effect of RMS with his fanatical following`
`06:51.02`	`calvarez`	`findlay, it does. Less people would be concerned about adopting or developing FOSS if it wasn't for the GPL`
`06:51.21`	`calvarez`	`findlay, no, I'm not confusing anything. One is a result of the other`
`06:51.23`	`levi_home`	`findlay: His fanatical following is one of his effects.`
`06:51.31`	`findlay`	`so`
`06:51.32`	`calvarez`	`and please drop the condescending remarks`
`06:51.44`	`findlay`	`who's condescending?`
`06:52.09`	`calvarez`	`whoever is implying "confusion" on those he/she is speaking with`
`06:52.22`	`findlay`	`I'm not conscious of saying anything condescending`
`06:52.23`	`calvarez`	`or "not understanding"`
`06:52.31`	`vontrapp`	`i think findlay is just confused about his condescension`
`06:52.46`	`calvarez`	`or maybe he condescended about his confusion`
`06:52.49`	`vontrapp`	`he doesn't understand what he's saying`
`06:53.12`	`findlay`	`sorry if it was condescending`
`06:53.16`	`calvarez`	`now, talking about RMS, I ask: what is his stance on the $100 Linux laptop?`
`06:53.18`	`findlay`	`I didn't mean to be`
`06:53.30`	`vontrapp`	`findlay: i didn't think you were overly so, i'm just joking around`
`06:53.34`	`calvarez`	`findlay, no prob, maybe I was being too sensitive`
`06:54.45`	`findlay`	`anyway, I don't think the fanaticism that RMS generates is all that important or influential`
`06:54.59`	`vontrapp`	`but i sure wish it would get rid of java`
`06:55.13`	`findlay`	`heh`
`06:55.17`	`calvarez`	`it is, just not on the small level but on the large one (which is worse)`
`06:55.55`	`calvarez`	`more companies might be producing or funding FOSS as a viable business alternative if it wasn't because of so many restrictions`
`06:56.00`	`vontrapp`	`well, i give up trying to get this project to work from home. i'll just have to go into school early tomorrow or something`
`06:56.03`	`vontrapp`	`stupid java`
`06:56.06`	`calvarez`	`restrictions, btw, caused by RMS's activism`
`06:56.17`	`findlay`	`calvarez: you could be right, but as for me I don't care and I think I've said that like 5 times already`
`06:56.23`	`findlay`	`(-:`
`06:56.34`	`calvarez`	`that's fine`
`06:56.43`	`vontrapp`	`g'night all`
`06:56.47`	`calvarez`	`g/night`
`06:56.57`	`calvarez`	`bedtime for me too`
`06:57.00`	`calvarez`	`bye`
`06:57.11`	`levi_home`	`vontrapp: What's Java ever done to you?`
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`07:45.33`	`herlo`	`fracking hotel sucks, but now I am torified, and they can't block my irc any more!!!`
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`12:56.00`	`*** topic/#utah is The source for OSS focused discussion in Utah \| Read http://plug.org/node/28 \| goozbach went to Texas de Brasil and all I got was this lousy topic`
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`13:34.56`	`goozbach`	`someone bought a random bag o crap on woot.com`
`13:35.06`	`goozbach`	`ended up with a 61" hdtv`
`13:37.35`	`graphyx`	`Sweet.`
`13:37.57`	`graphyx`	`It's almost like a lottery ticket in some respects.`
`13:38.44`	`graphyx`	`My brother in law follows woot quite feircely. However the one time when they purchased the 5 foot wide stryoform head of Ken Jennings, he didn't just in case they tried to send that to him.`
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`14:32.10`	`brac`	`I'm back!`
`14:32.19`	`elg`	`-lart vontrapp`
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`15:05.12`	`*** topic/#utah is The source for OSS focused discussion in Utah \| Read http://plug.org/node/28 \| goozbach went to Texas de Brasil and all I got was this lousy topic`
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`15:05.48`	`graphyx`	`-lart ibot`
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`15:09.05`	`redbeard1`	`i just told my boss that the people that i had been working with most on a particular project were mark, james and john. and then i did a mental double-take, and my boss pointed at peter's office.`
`15:09.14`	`redbeard1`	`my life just gets more surreal every day.`
`15:09.46`	`graphyx`	`lol...`
`15:09.56`	`graphyx`	`What does that make your boss?`
`15:10.02`	`graphyx`	`Don't let it get to his head.`
`15:10.08`	`redbeard1`	`my boss's name is matthew`
`15:10.14`	`redbeard1`	`and we have a guy here named paul`
`15:10.28`	`graphyx`	`Is the Secretary Mary?`
`15:10.39`	`redbeard1`	`no, but i think we should start looking.`
`15:10.44`	`graphyx`	`BTW, if a guy named judas applies to work there, don't go for it.`
`15:11.23`	`redbeard1`	`i'm joseph... and the guy sitting on the other side of the cube wall from me is michael...`
`15:11.32`	`redbeard1`	`this place is tripping me out today.`
`15:17.21`	`graphyx`	`Well you could say that your company hires programmers of biblical proportions.`
`15:17.23`	`goozbach`	`heh`
`15:18.26`	`redbeard1`	`i think the last thing i want to do is get biblical with my coworkers`
`15:18.33`	`goozbach`	`get around the conference room table ala 'The Last Supper'`
`15:18.39`	`goozbach`	`and get a picture taken`
`15:18.59`	`redbeard1`	`uh... but who would stand in the center?`
`15:19.35`	`elg`	`harleypig has a beard`
`15:19.37`	`goozbach`	`get the cleaning crew guy named jesus to stand in the center`
`15:19.50`	`redbeard1`	`heh`
`15:19.53`	`goozbach`	`that was bad, sorry`
`15:20.17`	`goozbach`	`elg: it wouldn't be the same with harleypig`
`15:20.25`	`goozbach`	`it's all to do with the names, not looks`
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`15:21.51`	`redbeard1`	`the closesest name here to jesus is jason, and that's just wrong`
`15:22.00`	`goozbach`	`no, not jason`
`15:22.06`	`goozbach`	`he's no jesus`
`15:22.20`	`goozbach`	`that's it, he needs to be fired`
`15:22.29`	`goozbach`	`his name doesn't fit in to the scheme`
`15:26.57`	`redbeard1`	`my landlord's name is bart... i wonder if that's short for bartholomew`
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`15:30.42`	`goozbach`	`no freaking way!: http://www.gausspistol.com/index.html`
`15:31.35`	`redbeard1`	`oh man`
`15:31.38`	`redbeard1`	`that's awesome`
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`15:33.57`	`herlo`	`that'll be a cool addition to next month's MAKE magazine`
`15:34.04`	`redbeard1`	`no kidding`
`15:39.59`	`graphyx`	`from the faq`
`15:39.59`	`graphyx`	`Is your Gauss Pistol dangerous?`
`15:40.06`	`graphyx`	`When disassembled, many of the plastic parts could pose a choking hazard.`
`15:43.27`	`^Migs^`	`wow`
`15:43.30`	`^Migs^`	`I want to build that`
`15:48.08`	`graphyx`	`^Migs^: You have a beer can and bottle population that you need to subdue?`
`15:49.34`	`^Migs^`	`I wish!!!!!`
`15:49.47`	`^Migs^`	`But maybe I can get rid of the mouse problem in my house with one`
`15:50.23`	`graphyx`	`Would a bb gun do the same trick?`
`15:50.31`	`graphyx`	`I triple dog dare you to find out!!!`
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`15:50.37`	`graphyx`	`~tripledog ^Migs^`
`15:50.45`	`^Migs^`	`I don't have a bb gun :(`
`15:50.59`	`^Migs^`	`but I'm just steps away from having a gauss pistol!`
`15:50.59`	`graphyx`	`I bet you that you could buy a bb gun cheaper than that guass pistol.`
`15:51.12`	`graphyx`	`bb gun would have fewer steps.`
`15:51.12`	`graphyx`	`;)`
`15:51.17`	`graphyx`	`1) buy bb gun`
`15:51.21`	`graphyx`	`2) kill mice`
`15:51.23`	`graphyx`	`3) ????`
`15:51.26`	`graphyx`	`4) profit!!!`
`15:51.28`	`^Migs^`	`1.5) buy bbs`
`15:51.50`	`graphyx`	`I am sure they sell bb guns that include a limited number of bbs with it.`
`15:52.05`	`^Migs^`	`I'd rather have a gauss pistol :(`
`15:52.08`	`graphyx`	`since selling them with an unlimited number of bbs would be really expensive.`
`15:52.11`	`levi`	`graphyx: Are you willing to take that chance?!!`
`15:52.14`	`^Migs^`	`why are you trying to keep me from having fun?`
`15:52.15`	`graphyx`	`I don't doubt it.`
`15:53.10`	`^Migs^`	`I brought some homemade beef stew for lunch today, and I don't think I can wait until lunchtime to eat`
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`16:01.28`	`^Migs^`	`omfyum`
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`16:14.19`	`calvarez`	`~cerebellum redbeard1`
`16:14.23`	`ibot`	`redbeard1, YOU GOT CEREBELLUM'D!! http://ist-socrates.berkeley.edu/~btvoytek/images/classes/cerebellumd.gif`
`16:14.33`	`calvarez`	`~whatiscerebellum`
`16:14.35`	`ibot`	`Getting cerebellum'd means getting killed by some mysterious waves emanating from a giant floating brain with a black patch on its eye and controlled by a guy in suit and tie. Please refer to http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Cerebellum'd and http://ist-socrates.berkeley.edu/~btvoytek/images/classes/cerebellumd.gif`
`16:15.00`	`redbeard1`	`ow! my skin!`
`16:15.17`	`calvarez`	`your blood hurts`
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`16:20.07`	`*** mode/#utah [+o Jayce^] by ChanServ`
`16:32.32`	`mheath`	`~praise FedEx`
`16:32.43`	`ibot`	`All hail FedEx!`
`16:38.54`	`*** join/#utah scothoser (n=scothose@wifi-177146.aoce.utah.edu)`
`16:39.00`	`scothoser`	`Morning everyone!`
`16:41.40`	`mheath`	`scothoser: morning.`
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`16:48.54`	`Keighvin`	`~weaselstomp Jayce^`
`16:49.02`	`ibot`	`ACTION dons a viking helm, spreads some mayonnaise, and gives Jayce^ a good hard STOMP. Repeatedly.`
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`17:11.19`	`vontrapp`	`levi: for one thing, this random project has to be in java, and i have to read and modify existing java`
`17:11.40`	`vontrapp`	`just reading java is bad enough`
`17:12.08`	`vontrapp`	`and, whenever i run azureus, it eats _all_ my memory`
`17:12.30`	`bonez39`	`whenever I mail anything out, from mutt...I include my own email address on the Bcc: line. Is there a way to have mutt store those reflected sent email notes in a separate folder, so that i don't have to open and then delete or store them manually?`
`17:14.18`	`findlay`	`echo "set record =+outbox" >> ~/.muttrc`
`17:15.13`	`vontrapp`	`or procmail is really good for that`
`17:17.43`	`findlay`	`I have a /root/.forward file whose contents are "\| /usr/bin/procmail" yet all my root mail is sent to /var/spool/mail/nobody`
`17:17.43`	`*** part/#utah scothoser (n=scothose@wifi-177146.aoce.utah.edu)`
`17:18.08`	`vontrapp`	`findlay, i believe there's some kind of system setting that tells it where to send root mail, probably before it even gets to .forward`
`17:18.48`	`macnewbold`	`findlay: you might check in your aliases file`
`17:18.50`	`findlay`	`you're probably right`
`17:19.00`	`macnewbold`	`aliases gets processed first,`
`17:19.09`	`macnewbold`	`and unless it says that root mail should go to the root user,`
`17:19.13`	`macnewbold`	`it won't ever even see the .forward`
`17:20.15`	`*** join/#utah hatchmt (n=mhatch@71-219-20-54.slkc.qwest.net)`
`17:21.05`	`*** join/#utah mrpull (n=mrpull@205.158.184.126)`
`17:23.04`	`*** join/#utah Robdor (n=Robdor@208.187.198.179)`
`17:35.01`	`*** join/#utah ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)`
`17:35.01`	`*** topic/#utah is The source for OSS focused discussion in Utah \| Read http://plug.org/node/28 \| goozbach went to Texas de Brasil and all I got was this lousy topic`
`17:35.01`	`*** mode/#utah [+o ibot] by ChanServ`
`17:39.01`	`*** join/#utah manithree (n=blr@c-71-199-35-71.hsd1.co.comcast.net)`
`17:40.04`	`^Migs^`	`not like a thoughtful giving hog, though`
`17:44.37`	`*** join/#utah ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)`
`17:44.37`	`*** topic/#utah is The source for OSS focused discussion in Utah \| Read http://plug.org/node/28 \| goozbach went to Texas de Brasil and all I got was this lousy topic`
`17:44.37`	`*** mode/#utah [+o ibot] by ChanServ`
`17:45.44`	`calvarez`	`ibot, go away`
`17:45.45`	`ibot`	`/server irc.rt.ru`
`17:45.57`	`calvarez`	`ibot, go away`
`17:45.58`	`ibot`	`/server irc.rt.ru`
`17:46.07`	`calvarez`	`ibot, go`
`17:46.15`	`calvarez`	`ibot, away`
`17:46.17`	`ibot`	`well, away is We don't care if you're 'afk', 'having a shower' or 'doing my wife'. If we really want to know, we'll /whois you. so please disable any public messages your client sends when you go /away or come back, or there are almost 761 people here. If everyone did something annoying, we'd never get any conversation in.`
`17:46.46`	`mheath`	`does ibot have something like......`
`17:46.53`	`mheath`	`ibot: tell calvarez about away`
`17:47.18`	`mheath`	`haha`
`17:53.04`	`*** join/#utah ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)`
`17:53.04`	`*** topic/#utah is The source for OSS focused discussion in Utah \| Read http://plug.org/node/28 \| goozbach went to Texas de Brasil and all I got was this lousy topic`
`17:53.04`	`*** mode/#utah [+o ibot] by ChanServ`
`17:54.53`	`^Migs^`	`~whalepunt ibot`
`17:54.54`	`ibot`	`ACTION looks onward as an everest-sized whale called Victor punts ibot across Soviet Russia (No... you don't punt whales there)`
`17:57.44`	`*** part/#utah herlo (i=clints@gateway/tor/x-5b1a1087aed4069f)`
`18:07.55`	`Keighvin`	`~whaleimmune ^Migs^`
`18:07.56`	`ibot`	`ACTION uses his Divine Shield and is immune to all ^Migs^'s physical attacks for the next 12 seconds.`
`18:08.29`	`maquis`	`that doesn't have a whale in it`
`18:08.39`	`findlay`	`yeah`
`18:09.11`	`maquis`	`~witchburn Keighvin`
`18:11.18`	`Keighvin`	`I didn't make the whale*, I just use'em.`
`18:11.26`	`Keighvin`	`Although I really should add some one of these days.`
`18:12.09`	`maquis`	`ah... but you float... so, you must be made of wood... and thus, you should be burned`
`18:12.38`	`Keighvin`	`~burn me`
`18:12.40`	`ibot`	`ACTION pours gasoline all over keighvin, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze`
`18:13.27`	`hhatfield`	`I'm getting: "500 EOF when chunk header expected" when trying to validate a page that is being processed by php. If I view the page in a browser and save the html and validate that page, it works as expected. I then add "AddType application/x-httpd-php .html" to my .htaccess file, the validator still works correctly.`
`18:14.21`	`*** join/#utah herlo (i=clints@gateway/tor/x-968e06ded7d0c743)`
`18:14.24`	`hhatfield`	`I've done some googling and seen some discussion about similar issues (both with php and also with SSI's), but no clear resolution. I hit up the apache room, but no-one seems to be listening right now... so I turn to you #utah... any clues?`
`18:15.12`	`Keighvin`	`How are you attempting to validate it?`
`18:19.02`	`findlay`	`~curl maquis`
`18:19.22`	`hhatfield`	`using the w3.org validator`
`18:30.32`	`Tene`	`hhatfield: the problem is obviously that you're using a widely-used piece of software. You should use $obscure, it's clearly better in every way.`
`18:31.48`	`findlay`	`great Tene you made him timeout`
`18:31.55`	`findlay`	`(:`
`18:32.16`	`*** join/#utah hhatfield (n=glennh@outgoing.inetz.com)`
`18:32.19`	`Keighvin`	`wb`
`18:32.44`	`findlay`	`~hail hhatfield`
`18:32.46`	`ibot`	`ACTION bows down to hhatfield and chants, "I'M NOT WORTHY!!"`
`18:33.00`	`Keighvin`	`hhatfield: Can you do a tcpdump during the fetch, or is there too much noise for that?`
`18:33.38`	`findlay`	`tcpdump has a sophisticated filtering mechanism`
`18:33.48`	`findlay`	`but it's kind of obscure`
`18:34.39`	`hhatfield`	`wow... I feel like Gaim just flipped me over and shook me`
`18:35.12`	`graphyx`	`did you get gaim 2.0b4a?`
`18:36.25`	`maquis`	`hhatfield: huh?`
`18:37.17`	`maquis`	`hhatfield: did you connect something so that it sends an electrical shock whenever you get a message?`
`18:37.39`	`*** join/#utah fungus (n=fungus@firebat.aros.net)`
`18:39.04`	`hhatfield`	`sorry`
`18:39.10`	`Tene`	`/query hhatfield ; /exec -o yes BUZZ`
`18:39.24`	`hhatfield`	`no... I was typing a message and gaim locked up...`
`18:39.30`	`hhatfield`	`hard`
`18:39.35`	`maquis`	`oh...`
`18:39.41`	`hhatfield`	`so I had to force quit it and that's why I got kicked from the room`
`18:39.41`	`maquis`	`that's not as interesting`
`18:39.54`	`hhatfield`	`I have the tcpdump`
`18:40.20`	`*** join/#utah spr (n=spr@c-24-10-229-14.hsd1.ut.comcast.net)`
`18:40.34`	`hhatfield`	`filtering it to get rid of the ssh chatter on there`
`18:42.45`	`findlay`	`but the real question is can grab the same packet decode with 5 minutes to write a C program with libpcap (-:`
`18:43.21`	`maquis`	`"ikeay -- just some oak and some pine and a handful of norsemen..."`
`18:43.27`	`maquis`	`er`
`18:43.31`	`*** join/#utah vex_ (n=vex@216.194.126.99)`
`18:43.38`	`maquis`	`s/ikeay/ikea/g`
`18:44.13`	`xbmodder`	`I hate underderclassmen`
`18:44.28`	`Tene`	`Heh. Funny.`
`18:44.32`	`xbmodder`	`52`
`18:44.35`	`maquis`	`xbmodder: what year are you?`
`18:44.49`	`graphyx`	`hhatfield: couldn't you just do tcpdump port 80 ?`
`18:46.18`	`xbmodder`	`sophomore`
`18:46.48`	`graphyx`	`anyone have a script to automatically block IPs that are trying to brute force ssh?`
`18:46.57`	`maquis`	`graphyx: tensai has one`
`18:47.00`	`maquis`	`it's on his website`
`18:47.07`	`graphyx`	`Ok.`
`18:47.11`	`graphyx`	`whats tensai's website?`
`18:47.16`	`maquis`	`zmonkey.org`
`18:47.47`	`Keighvin`	`graphyx: There are some ways of making it reactive/adaptive, as well.`
`18:47.49`	`maquis`	`graphyx: you may have to look around to find it, but it's there someplace`
`18:47.53`	`*** join/#utah hhatfield (n=glennh@outgoing.inetz.com)`
`18:48.04`	`tensai`	`graphyx: www.zmonkey.org/~tensai/ssh-lockout/`
`18:48.05`	`maquis`	`i think it waits for 4 or 5 failed attempts, and then black-holes`
`18:48.05`	`hhatfield`	`gotta stop hitting ctrl-v in gaim`
`18:48.07`	`hhatfield`	`not nice`
`18:48.11`	`Keighvin`	`I went the cheap route on my home machine though, I was tired of the 17K+ brute force SSH attempts that were being tried every week.`
`18:48.15`	`Keighvin`	`So I just shifted ports.`
`18:48.31`	`graphyx`	`tensai: Thansk.`
`18:48.31`	`hhatfield`	`http://garrionent.com/~ghatfield/dump.txt`
`18:49.10`	`xbmodder`	`graphyx: hint: denyhosts`
`18:49.14`	`xbmodder`	`45616`
`18:49.22`	`xbmodder`	`freshmen keeps hitting numberas`
`18:49.23`	`xbmodder`	`5263`
`18:49.23`	`xbmodder`	`262`
`18:49.24`	`graphyx`	`hhatfield: I bet people would have expected a pcap file rather than the output of tcpdump.`
`18:49.37`	`graphyx`	`xbmodder: Hint: I said automatically.`
`18:49.57`	`xbmodder`	`denyhosts is automagic`
`18:49.58`	`xbmodder`	`15023`
`18:50.34`	`tensai`	`graphyx: how many failures, how long to wait, whitelist. it's all configurable`
`18:50.41`	`graphyx`	`Nifty.`
`18:50.42`	`graphyx`	`Thanks.`
`18:50.44`	`tensai`	`the config is well commented`
`18:50.53`	`graphyx`	`Even better.`
`18:51.02`	`graphyx`	`This something you have put together or just mirror?`
`18:51.05`	`tensai`	`maquis wouldn't have a problem if she would just set up her ssh key like I keep saying`
`18:51.08`	`mheath`	`xbmodder: your a sophomore and you hate 'underderclassmen' ?`
`18:51.10`	`tensai`	`I writ it myself`
`18:51.20`	`graphyx`	`tensai: nifty/`
`18:51.37`	`xbmodder`	`mheath: they keep banging on my keyboard`
`18:51.45`	`mheath`	`Erm.`
`18:51.50`	`mheath`	`You ARE an underclassman, xbmodder.`
`18:51.57`	`xbmodder`	`So?`
`18:51.57`	`maquis`	`lol`
`18:52.01`	`xbmodder`	`I hate myself.`
`18:52.06`	`xbmodder`	`~emo xbmodder`
`18:52.17`	`mheath`	`So sorry your IRCing-from-school isn't working out too well. =\`
`18:52.46`	`hhatfield`	`I'll see if I can get one`
`18:52.55`	`xbmodder`	`someone needs to write an emo commandfor ibot`
`18:53.00`	`xbmodder`	`~emo`
`18:53.05`	`graphyx`	`any idea how to restart sshd on freebsd 3.6?`
`18:53.19`	`xbmodder`	`killall -9 sshd`
`18:53.25`	`xbmodder`	`/usr/sbin/sshd`
`18:53.27`	`xbmodder`	`?`
`18:54.15`	`xbmodder`	`-hides`
`18:54.16`	`xbmodder`	`-`
`18:54.24`	`mheath`	`xbmodder: I think you're the only person in here who has the word "emo" in their venacular.`
`18:54.52`	`xbmodder`	`mheath: then what do you 369,36`
`18:55.19`	`mheath`	`Uh. Not sure I understand you.`
`18:55.21`	`xbmodder`	`mheath: then what do you call fals36.`
`18:55.44`	`mheath`	`fals36?`
`18:55.46`	`xbmodder`	`mheath: then what do you call falsly depressed people,who wear excessive makeup?`
`18:55.54`	`xbmodder`	`(freshmen 3numbers)`
`18:55.56`	`mheath`	`Idiots.`
`18:55.57`	`xbmodder`	`grr`
`18:56.01`	`xbmodder`	`heh`
`18:56.03`	`xbmodder`	`~idiot xbmodder`
`18:56.05`	`ibot`	`xbmodder: you are an idiot.`
`18:56.13`	`mheath`	`~xbmodder`
`18:56.15`	`ibot`	`it has been said that xbmodder is sargun`
`18:56.25`	`^Migs^`	`I don't think emos are falsely depressed. I think their depression is real, albeit misguided.`
`18:56.38`	`^Migs^`	`I dunno. Maybe it's cool to listen to goth music and cut yourself.`
`18:56.41`	`^Migs^`	`never tried it myself`
`18:57.01`	`mheath`	`I'd say people like that perhaps have a mental illness; I'm not sure it's depression, though.`
`18:57.13`	`mheath`	`Attention-seeking self-pity. :P`
`18:57.18`	`xbmodder`	`^Migs^: Try it, and keep a blog :-P`
`18:57.44`	`^Migs^`	`I love this picture: http://www.justinreeve.com/lilemo.jpg`
`19:02.51`	`*** join/#utah ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)`
`19:02.51`	`*** topic/#utah is The source for OSS focused discussion in Utah \| Read http://plug.org/node/28 \| goozbach went to Texas de Brasil and all I got was this lousy topic`
`19:02.51`	`*** mode/#utah [+o ibot] by ChanServ`
`19:02.57`	`xbmodder`	`heh`
`19:03.00`	`^Migs^`	`for example, you wouldn't wear a wedding dress everywhere you go`
`19:03.11`	`xbmodder`	`Hm.`
`19:03.36`	`xbmodder`	`hrhr`
`19:03.38`	`xbmodder`	`hehe`
`19:03.51`	`^Migs^`	`there is a subculture of dress which emo kids often wear. Generally black clothing, and they have hair that hangs over their face.`
`19:04.20`	`xbmodder`	`most people in here are wearing jeans. I don't like jeans.`
`19:04.31`	`^Migs^`	`do you wear them anyway?`
`19:04.57`	`xbmodder`	`No.`
`19:05.01`	`^Migs^`	`what do you wear?`
`19:05.02`	`xbmodder`	`I wear`
`19:05.07`	`xbmodder`	`Uhh`
`19:05.27`	`xbmodder`	`I think I wear cargo pants`
`19:05.29`	`goozbach`	`I wear a short kilt`
`19:05.29`	`xbmodder`	`and t-shirts`
`19:05.32`	`xbmodder`	`and sweaters`
`19:05.36`	`goozbach`	`mini-kilt`
`19:05.39`	`goozbach`	`sessy!`
`19:05.43`	`xbmodder`	`goozbach: Ooh, sounds sexy.`
`19:05.47`	`^Migs^`	`hahaha`
`19:06.23`	`maquis`	`goozbach: you're scarying me`
`19:07.32`	`xbmodder`	`goozbach: Hm. How long are mini-kilts?`
`19:07.56`	`graphyx`	`well normal kilts are like 16-20" long.`
`19:08.06`	`graphyx`	`mini kilt would be less?`
`19:08.19`	`xbmodder`	`12"?`
`19:08.21`	`levi`	`No Utilikilt wearers here?`
`19:09.19`	`goozbach`	`8"`
`19:09.48`	`graphyx`	`Thsoe for the girls?`
`19:09.58`	`goozbach`	`graphyx: nope`
`19:10.01`	`goozbach`	`just sessy men`
`19:10.04`	`goozbach`	`:)`
`19:10.08`	`^Migs^`	`girls don't wear kilts`
`19:10.22`	`graphyx`	`What do the girls wear? pants?`
`19:10.24`	`^Migs^`	`and if they do, they need to stop immediately.`
`19:11.23`	`xbmodder`	`?`
`19:11.24`	`levi`	`Girls wear plaid skirts.`
`19:11.32`	`levi`	`Men wear kilts.`
`19:11.50`	`xbmodder`	`6663`
`19:12.10`	`xbmodder`	`Dresses are very uncomfortable.`
`19:13.04`	`levi`	`Well, a better way of phrasing it is that a skirt is typically a female garment, while a kilt is typically a male garment.`
`19:13.07`	`xbmodder`	`I don't see how girls can wear them.`
`19:13.09`	`xbmodder`	`:-/`
`19:13.25`	`levi`	`People can and do wear garments that are not typically worn by people of their sex.`
`19:13.53`	`levi`	`Which does not strike me as a particularly big deal, though it seems to freak some people out.`
`19:14.37`	`xbmodder`	`Mhmm.`
`19:14.37`	`xbmodder`	`i`
`19:15.00`	`xbmodder`	`I fine the excessively tight pant wearing by the emo subculture to be painful.`
`19:15.47`	`^Migs^`	`yeah, I don't see the big deal either`
`19:15.54`	`levi`	`Perhaps it is, but people have been willing to endure discomfort for style for a long time.`
`19:16.04`	`xbmodder`	`Hm. I vote comfort.`
`19:16.11`	`^Migs^`	`the only people who freak out over things like that are those who are trapped into a narrow-minded way of thinking, limited by the confines their culture has placed around them`
`19:17.22`	`levi`	`Cultural norms are not necessarily a bad thing, but getting freaked out about clothes seems excessive.`
`19:17.53`	`xbmodder`	`Yeah.`
`19:18.32`	`levi`	`Well, some clothes might be worth getting upset about, but getting upset simply over wearing clothes designed for the other sex seems excessive.`
`19:19.49`	`graphyx`	`What is this emo subculture?`
`19:20.16`	`levi`	`Anyway, kilts are designed for men, so getting freaked out over men wearing them is downright silly.`
`19:20.16`	`xbmodder`	`levi: That doesn't happen that often in the bay area`
`19:20.23`	`xbmodder`	`heh`
`19:20.25`	`^Migs^`	`http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emo_%28slang%29`
`19:20.33`	`xbmodder`	`http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emo_%28slang%29`
`19:20.45`	`levi`	`graphyx: It started, oddly enough, as an offshoot of punk subculture.`
`19:20.53`	`^Migs^`	`I win`
`19:21.37`	`graphyx`	`how different is it than goth or grunge?`
`19:21.46`	`^Migs^`	`emo is the new goth`
`19:21.57`	`^Migs^`	`emo is basically goth + extra emotion`
`19:22.05`	`graphyx`	`I see..`
`19:22.35`	`graphyx`	`But they have to call it something else so that they can make sure everyone knows that they are trying to be non conformists. Just like everyone else.`
`19:22.49`	`levi`	`^Migs^: It used to be punk + extra emotion, but it's all kinda mixed up with other stuff now.`
`19:22.53`	`^Migs^`	`conformity sucks`
`19:22.57`	`^Migs^`	`yeah`
`19:23.21`	`^Migs^`	`basically, as long as your appearance is controversial, you can be emo too`
`19:23.28`	`xbmodder`	`I`
`19:23.30`	`xbmodder`	`TU6][U`
`19:23.35`	`^Migs^`	`but it has to instill terror in little old ladies`
`19:23.43`	`graphyx`	`I personally love how each new group of kids states that conformity stinks. And they all conform to a new standard of dress, music, and conduct.`
`19:23.51`	`^Migs^`	`haha`
`19:24.00`	`graphyx`	`Not even conscious that they have conformed to something else instead..`
`19:24.02`	`xbmodder`	`haha`
`19:24.05`	`^Migs^`	`that's quite normal`
`19:24.22`	`goozbach`	`I consider myself non-conformist`
`19:24.34`	`graphyx`	`Just like everyone else, eh?`
`19:24.36`	`^Migs^`	`I'm neither conformist nor non-conformist. I'm a neutral observer.`
`19:24.40`	`goozbach`	`I enter the store thru the "exit" doors`
`19:24.46`	`xbmodder`	`hehe`
`19:25.07`	`^Migs^`	`we neutrals need to get together and conform to some standards`
`19:28.31`	`graphyx`	`non-conformists are just a group of people who attempt to conform to a standard that they think others haven't conformed to before.`
`19:34.11`	`*** join/#utah manithree (n=blr@c-71-199-35-71.hsd1.co.comcast.net)`
`19:34.31`	`*** join/#utah herlo (n=herlo@65.223.8.130)`
`19:34.50`	`*** join/#utah com4 (i=com4@antitech.xmission.com)`
`19:40.24`	`*** join/#utah jsmith_ (n=jsmith@000-178-815.area3.spcsdns.net)`
`19:50.03`	`goozbach`	`"They're just so.... NEUTRAL!" --Zap`
`19:53.10`	`*** join/#utah vex (n=vex@216.194.126.99)`
`19:54.44`	`*** join/#utah Newsome (n=sorenson@adsl-75-0-136-70.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net)`
`19:54.44`	`goozbach`	`umm: http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2006/11/bulletproof_tex.html`
`19:56.30`	`Newsome`	`hahaha`
`20:01.03`	`*** join/#utah vex_ (n=vex@216.194.126.99)`
`20:01.27`	`*** join/#utah Crax (n=nobody@207.173.85.26)`
`20:04.12`	`graphyx`	`nice...`
`20:23.05`	`*** join/#utah ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)`
`20:23.05`	`*** topic/#utah is The source for OSS focused discussion in Utah \| Read http://plug.org/node/28 \| goozbach went to Texas de Brasil and all I got was this lousy topic`
`20:23.05`	`*** mode/#utah [+o ibot] by ChanServ`
`20:23.51`	`findlay`	`yay`
`20:24.32`	`^Migs^`	`no one cares, ibot. stfu.`
`20:24.49`	`^Migs^`	`what an attention whore`
`20:25.33`	`manithree`	`Just watched the Novell-Microsoft announcement. Scary stuff`
`20:26.52`	`herlo`	`I can't seem to nail down why my ssh attempts are timing out at the host...`
`20:28.09`	`herlo`	`http://pastebin.ca/236458 any ideas??`
`20:28.49`	`graphyx`	`does the line "Not a RSA1 key file /home/clints/.ssh/id_dsa." mean anything to you?`
`20:28.58`	`graphyx`	`seems that the key is messed up.`
`20:29.27`	`graphyx`	`does that multiple times.`
`20:29.57`	`herlo`	`hmm, I just copied over my original dsa key, seems like that could be it, but it was working last night same key`
`20:30.17`	`graphyx`	`did you get a file format problem?`
`20:30.17`	`herlo`	`and I can't look at the host because I have no access to any hosts...`
`20:30.24`	`herlo`	`no`
`20:30.28`	`herlo`	`but I can copy the key again`
`20:30.30`	`graphyx`	`no dos2unix problem?`
`20:31.05`	`graphyx`	`This line "debug3: Not a RSA1 key file /home/clints/.ssh/id_dsa."`
`20:31.10`	`findlay`	`^Migs^: give me teh attentions!!!@!!`
`20:31.14`	`graphyx`	`looks like it is trying to use the wrong type of key.`
`20:31.22`	`graphyx`	`not that I am am expert on it.`
`20:31.25`	`herlo`	`nope, copied it from jfs to ext3, then back to ext3`
`20:31.30`	`graphyx`	`Just guessing from the verbose..`
`20:32.02`	`herlo`	`md5 sums match`
`20:33.33`	`graphyx`	`so you copied the key properly.`
`20:33.47`	`graphyx`	`so it probably is configuration issue on the client side then.`
`20:34.25`	`herlo`	`yeah, gonna have to look into that...thx`
`20:34.44`	`manithree`	`Anybody ever used gazzin vps hosting?`
`20:36.55`	`*** join/#utah elg (n=fugalh@hfugal.NMSU.Edu)`
`20:48.51`	`*** join/#utah Sparticus (n=Sparticu@63.194.187.135)`
`20:50.09`	`*** join/#utah epp (n=evan@c-67-182-211-240.hsd1.ut.comcast.net)`
`20:50.36`	`Keighvin`	`~whaletube ^Migs^`
`20:51.00`	`Keighvin`	`~whaletubes ^Migs^`
`20:51.01`	`ibot`	`ACTION stuffs an incredibly flexible whale named Theodore into ^Migs^'s tubes. ^Migs^'s internets no worky :(`
`20:51.31`	`Keighvin`	`Which is an obvious precursor for...`
`20:51.38`	`Keighvin`	`~whalelottery ^Migs^`
`20:51.39`	`ibot`	`ACTION launches a giant lottery ball into ^Migs^'s tubes. Theodore swallows it`
`20:53.40`	`Sparticus`	`wait.. what?`
`20:55.28`	`Keighvin`	`~tick`
`20:55.29`	`ibot`	`Bad man hit dog with street!`
`20:55.51`	`Keighvin`	`Sparticus: The internet is a series of tubes.`
`20:56.18`	`Keighvin`	`I simply requested that ibot place a whale in ^Migs^'s tubes.`
`20:56.37`	`^Migs^`	`haha`
`20:59.28`	`^Migs^`	`I don't know why, but using -moz-border-radius to get rounded corners in my pages makes me giggle`
`21:05.17`	`Keighvin`	`Are you pairing it up with regular border-radius commands as well?`
`21:05.51`	`vontrapp`	`there are regular border-radius?`
`21:05.55`	`herlo`	`graphyx: It had to do with the GSSAPIAuthentication yes line in my /etc/ssh/ssh_config file, I am still unsure as to why, but I don't need GSSAPIAuthentication but for one server...`
`21:06.50`	`^Migs^`	`nope, I'm not`
`21:07.01`	`^Migs^`	`just getting a rounded corner exclusive to Firefox`
`21:07.07`	`^Migs^`	`I find that funny`
`21:07.16`	`Sparticus`	`So you guys are all linux buffs?`
`21:07.43`	`vontrapp`	`and a few bsd i think`
`21:08.03`	`^Migs^`	`yeah, we're all pro-Linux anti-Microsoft, and we actively campaign for everyone to use Linux, even if they don't want to, because we all know they're just ignorant and uninformed and if they knew about LInux they WOULD use it`
`21:08.55`	`Sparticus`	`Are you dudes students?`
`21:09.05`	`^Migs^`	`yeah, we're all students, Computer Science students to be exact`
`21:09.16`	`^Migs^`	`that's why we're here, to discuss CS and Linux`
`21:09.29`	`Sparticus`	`Where?`
`21:09.34`	`^Migs^`	`here. In #utah`
`21:09.46`	`^Migs^`	`we all go to BYU`
`21:09.48`	`Sparticus`	`BYU or Utah?`
`21:09.55`	`herlo`	`graphyx: looks like that whitespace error you pointed out is a red herring: http://pastebin.ca/236521`
`21:09.56`	`Sparticus`	`ah`
`21:10.07`	`Tene`	`Sparticus: ^Migs^ is not being truthful`
`21:10.16`	`^Migs^`	`I'm not being entirely UNtruthful`
`21:10.17`	`Sparticus`	`really?`
`21:10.25`	`Sparticus`	`Do tell.`
`21:10.27`	`manithree`	`^Migs^ must have forgotten some meds this morning.`
`21:10.31`	`Tene`	`His statements only apply to a subset of the people here`
`21:10.43`	`Tene`	`They're true for some people, untrue for others.`
`21:11.01`	`^Migs^`	`one thing we can all agree on though is that Linux is awesome`
`21:11.11`	`Sparticus`	`Gentoo or Ubuntu?`
`21:11.15`	`Sparticus`	`I gotta know.`
`21:11.42`	`Sparticus`	`or do you guys compile your own kernels?`
`21:11.55`	`Keighvin`	`^Migs^: Thanks a lot, now I had to go add moz specific rounded corners to my stuff.`
`21:12.21`	`levi`	`Huh. Anyone here used the Scala language before?`
`21:12.21`	`^Migs^`	`yeah mang, -moz-border-radius is freaking awesome`
`21:12.45`	`^Migs^`	`although only 0.01% of my user base even uses Mozilla on my site, and apparently that's just me and the guy in the cubicle next to me`
`21:13.10`	`^Migs^`	`but still...ROUNDED CORNERS ZOMGOMZ!`
`21:13.19`	`^Migs^`	`Sparticus: Most of us have made our own kernels, yes`
`21:13.24`	`graphyx`	`herlo: I assume you got it working then?`
`21:13.27`	`^Migs^`	`part of the BYU CS curriculum`
`21:13.29`	`Keighvin`	`^Migs^: I don't get enough traffic to be able to subdivide it to tenths of a percent.`
`21:13.37`	`Keighvin`	`BUT: Most of my traffic is FireFox.`
`21:13.38`	`^Migs^`	`I get 1000s of visitors a day`
`21:13.42`	`herlo`	`graphyx: yeah, that's the link above...`
`21:13.44`	`^Migs^`	`well, not so much anymore`
`21:13.58`	`^Migs^`	`you must have a l33t h4x0r site`
`21:14.11`	`herlo`	`graphyx: I also was successful at making GSSAPIAuthentication work with one host rather than all hosts...`
`21:14.34`	`^Migs^`	`"my site" = the site I'm developing for work, btw. I don't have a personal site that gets 1000s of visitors.`
`21:14.48`	`findlay`	`how do you tell what USB ports on a computer are USB 2?`
`21:15.07`	`graphyx`	`Sparticus: compiling a kernel is orthogonal to whether we use gentoo or ubuntu.`
`21:15.13`	`^Migs^`	`attach a USB device. If it runs fast, it's USB 2. If it blows up your machine, it's USB 1.`
`21:15.16`	`levi`	`findlay: Hook a USB2 disk of some sort into it, start copying a file, and see if it takes a really long time.`
`21:15.20`	`graphyx`	`I have used gentoo and tried ubuntu and I have compiled my own kernel.`
`21:15.29`	`graphyx`	`great.`
`21:15.29`	`findlay`	`there are nice printouts with lspci and lsusb and lsusb, but there's no way to figure out which ports are which`
`21:15.43`	`findlay`	`levi: that's not very scientificc`
`21:15.53`	`findlay`	`what if you had like 1024 ports?`
`21:15.53`	`^Migs^`	`how is that not scientific?`
`21:15.59`	`findlay`	`what would you do then?`
`21:16.01`	`^Migs^`	`attach 1024 devices`
`21:16.15`	`vontrapp`	`usbview is graphical, and it will tell you which one a device is plugged into`
`21:16.41`	`^Migs^`	`you COULD do that`
`21:16.45`	`^Migs^`	`but our way is more fun`
`21:16.46`	`*** part/#utah hhatfield (n=glennh@outgoing.inetz.com)`
`21:16.51`	`Sparticus`	`graphyx, The question was to find out whether I was talking to people who "use" linux vs. people who know "how to use" linux.`
`21:17.07`	`^Migs^`	`Sparticus: Frankly, I think Linux sucks`
`21:17.10`	`vontrapp`	`i run nothing but linux on my home computers`
`21:17.18`	`vontrapp`	`even put it on my wife's laptop`
`21:17.22`	`^Migs^`	`I only use it because I'm required to for work`
`21:17.26`	`graphyx`	`Sparticus: Well I think you will find that there are both types of people in here. Those who use linux and those who know how to use linux.`
`21:17.31`	`Keighvin`	`I'm a mixed shop, Linux and Mac OS X`
`21:17.33`	`^Migs^`	`and most of the people in my office just run VMWare Windows anyway`
`21:17.41`	`findlay`	`vontrapp: thanks`
`21:17.42`	`Keighvin`	`14:18 < ^Migs^> one thing we can all agree on though is that Linux is awesome`
`21:17.53`	`levi`	`Yup, Linux sucks. But it sucks a lot less than some other systems.`
`21:18.01`	`^Migs^`	`I don't know much about LInux anyway`
`21:18.02`	`levi`	`I both use it and know how to use it.`
`21:18.06`	`^Migs^`	`so I'm definitely not one of those who know "how to use"`
`21:18.13`	`manithree`	`Sparticus: #utah rule #1: don't believe ANYTHING ^Migs^ says`
`21:18.16`	`^Migs^`	`I was lying, Keighvin.`
`21:18.30`	`^Migs^`	`Unless it's about how awesome I am. That's always true.`
`21:18.38`	`manithree`	`LIke i said ...`
`21:18.39`	`Keighvin`	`See, this is the part where I would go into a recursion loop and blow up if I was an android.`
`21:18.41`	`^Migs^`	`unless I'm saying I'm NOT awesome. Then that's untrue.`
`21:18.49`	`Keighvin`	`If you're lying, and tell me you're lying, then....`
`21:19.02`	`^Migs^`	`right, I could be telling the truth or lying about lying`
`21:19.23`	`^Migs^`	`I could also be telling the truth or lying about telling the truth`
`21:19.36`	`^Migs^`	`why does "lie" have a verb but "truth" doesn't? Why can't I be truthing?`
`21:19.36`	`*** join/#utah gthornock (n=gthornoc@158.91.196.32)`
`21:19.56`	`graphyx`	`cause lying is much more common?`
`21:19.59`	`Keighvin`	`~whalems ^Migs^`
`21:20.00`	`ibot`	`ACTION oneshots ^Migs^ with a mortal strike crit while wielding a whale named Lucas, whose size is comparable to that of a PS3`
`21:20.14`	`^Migs^`	`~whaleomegaassault Keighvin`
`21:22.05`	`Sparticus`	`Anyone here familiar with the Dell DRAC cards?`
`21:22.40`	`^Migs^`	`Sparticus: Most of us aren't really students, btw. Let alone attend BYU.`
`21:23.00`	`^Migs^`	`Weber > *`
`21:23.23`	`Sparticus`	`You must do QA then.`
`21:23.30`	`manithree`	`Zing`
`21:23.34`	`^Migs^`	`whoa`
`21:23.39`	`^Migs^`	`~pwndsauce ^Migs^`
`21:23.41`	`ibot`	`A ginormous opened bottle of Pwnsauce in the sky tips over and engulfs ^Migs^ in a torrent of pwnsauce, leaving them with a shirt stain that reads "Pwned".`
`21:26.34`	`findlay`	`22.97 MB/sec for USB-2 is normal, right?`
`21:26.45`	`^Migs^`	`yes`
`21:26.46`	`graphyx`	`That's fine.`
`21:26.53`	`findlay`	`because that's half (E)IDE with DMA`
`21:27.02`	`findlay`	`less than half actually`
`21:27.29`	`findlay`	`too bad firewire didn't make it big`
`21:27.46`	`manithree`	`eSATA is cheaper, anyway`
`21:28.06`	`findlay`	`but can you get for an external enclosure?`
`21:28.13`	`findlay`	`does Linux support it?`
`21:28.17`	`manithree`	`yep. newegg it`
`21:28.19`	`manithree`	`yep`
`21:28.28`	`findlay`	`is that SATA II?`
`21:28.36`	`findlay`	`or something different`
`21:29.00`	`findlay`	`hm`
`21:29.05`	`manithree`	`No, it's a different connector for SATA that can do SATA or SATA II. I have a Rosewill (SII) SATA 1 card`
`21:29.57`	`manithree`	`My backup drives are 2 250GB drives with $20 enclosures and it is FAST to back up to them.`
`21:30.23`	`Sparticus`	`You guys should check out the 300GB SAS drives they have now.`
`21:30.41`	`manithree`	`Only, what, $700?`
`21:30.52`	`Sparticus`	`$850 actually.`
`21:30.59`	`findlay`	`what's SAS?`
`21:31.00`	`^Migs^`	`yeah, we should definitely check those out`
`21:31.07`	`manithree`	`My 250GB SATA were $75`
`21:31.09`	`Sparticus`	`Serial Attached SCSI`
`21:31.31`	`manithree`	`SAS for your Sun X4x00 servers`
`21:31.41`	`manithree`	`Or HPaq`
`21:31.41`	`findlay`	`manithree: what kinds of hdparm numbers do you get with your eSATA drives?`
`21:32.10`	`Sparticus`	`Are servers were using the 300GB Drives, but corporate down graded them to 250GB SATA drives to save money. We now have a box with 48 300GB SAS drives in the corner doing nothing. It breaks my heart.`
`21:32.24`	`findlay`	`I'll take it`
`21:32.43`	`graphyx`	`if the drives are just sitting there how did you save money?`
`21:32.43`	`findlay`	`might be big enough to serve my music collection`
`21:32.47`	`Sparticus`	`I priced it out and that box is worth over 60k.`
`21:33.32`	`findlay`	`however, my electric bill might multiply`
`21:33.33`	`manithree`	`findlay: Never done that, but backing up my f-spot directory transferred 1.5 GB/min`
`21:33.40`	`Sparticus`	`We build a product that does Network Analysis, and our Servers have to match the product we sell when doing testing, and so were selling them with 250GB drives so we had to down grade our servers to match.`
`21:33.50`	`findlay`	`manithree: not bad`
`21:33.56`	`manithree`	`Sparticus: is that an X4500?`
`21:34.07`	`Sparticus`	`Dell 2950 actually.`
`21:34.55`	`levi`	`Dell 2950s are pretty nice.`
`21:35.05`	`findlay`	`manithree: that's 25.6 Mb/s`
`21:35.06`	`levi`	`I work with them, but I don't have DRAC cards.`
`21:35.14`	`graphyx`	`Sparticus: Where do you work?`
`21:35.19`	`levi`	`I use their onboard BMCs.`
`21:35.22`	`Sparticus`	`Network General`
`21:35.26`	`findlay`	`still half SATA :/`
`21:35.31`	`graphyx`	`Where is that SF?`
`21:35.49`	`Sparticus`	`American Fork`
`21:35.56`	`graphyx`	`Ok.`
`21:36.07`	`findlay`	`they make forks`
`21:36.16`	`^Migs^`	`what about sporks?`
`21:36.23`	`findlay`	`next year's model`
`21:36.45`	`graphyx`	`And the following year's upgrade is going to be called a foon.`
`21:36.45`	`^Migs^`	`I hear they're outsourcing to Mexico, so the new model is the Mexican Fork`
`21:36.55`	`findlay`	`interesting`
`21:37.20`	`^Migs^`	`I can't wait for the spfives to come out`
`21:37.25`	`^Migs^`	`*spives`
`21:37.40`	`graphyx`	`^Migs^: heh...`
`21:37.45`	`manithree`	`findlay: My card is sata 1, but that was just a cp -u, and the external drive light was off most of the time`
`21:37.46`	`graphyx`	`Just like the razors?`
`21:37.56`	`^Migs^`	`although spfives would be nice too`
`21:38.00`	`^Migs^`	`hah`
`21:38.19`	`graphyx`	`3 blades on a razor..`
`21:38.31`	`graphyx`	`What if we put 10 blades on there. 3.3X as fast and smooth...`
`21:38.36`	`^Migs^`	`I don't understand why American Fork was called American Fork. That's rather presumptious, to assume you're the fork of America.`
`21:38.40`	`jsmith`	`3? That's so last century`
`21:38.48`	`findlay`	well, `hdparm -tT /dev/sda` would tell you for sure, just run it a few times to get an average
`21:38.54`	`graphyx`	`Last milenium..`
`21:39.32`	`graphyx`	`ok that was misspelled.`
`21:39.57`	`Sparticus`	`Have you guys seen this? http://www.gamestop.com/product.asp?product%5Fid=646589`
`21:40.52`	`manithree`	`S'poor`
`21:41.14`	`graphyx`	`what is it anyway?`
`21:41.35`	`Sparticus`	`The coolest game to ever come out in a long time.`
`21:41.47`	`Sparticus`	`YouTube has some good in-game videos.`
`21:41.54`	`Sparticus`	`Inlcuding one with Robin Williams.`
`21:42.24`	`graphyx`	`how would you know how cool it is if the game hasn't been released and wont be released for another year?`
`21:42.34`	`levi`	`Ahh, it's finally coming out.`
`21:42.47`	`^Migs^`	`Is Spore out yet!?`
`21:42.50`	`jsmith`	`Duke Nukem 2009!`
`21:42.54`	`^Migs^`	`oh`
`21:42.54`	`harleypig`	`Don't ever get a ticket in Springville ... they will screw as many ways as they can think of, and be snotty about it to boot.`
`21:43.00`	`^Migs^`	`2007!?!! Wtf?`
`21:43.15`	`^Migs^`	`I can't wait that long`
`21:43.21`	`levi`	`Oh, heh, yeah... won't be coming out for a while yet.`
`21:43.24`	`^Migs^`	`I think that game is going to be groundbreaking`
`21:43.39`	`^Migs^`	`that's why they're called the Springville Snots`
`21:47.09`	`harleypig`	`s/no/hi/`
`21:47.21`	`harleypig`	`heh ... not what I meant, but it fits.`
`21:48.19`	`Sparticus`	`So how do you guys like Novell and Microsoft getting in bed with eachother?`
`21:48.52`	`manithree`	`It sucks. Novell is tacitly admitting that Linux has Microsoft IP`
`21:48.59`	`harleypig`	`NovSoft?`
`21:49.22`	`Sparticus`	`Micell.`
`21:49.52`	`*** join/#utah gthornock (n=gthornoc@158.91.196.32)`
`21:50.08`	`^Migs^`	`no, Microsell`
`21:50.11`	`manithree`	`findlay: one thing about eSATA: afaik, linux sata drivers aren't hot plug. If you boot with your drive turned off, you have to re-boot. I can't get rescan-scsi-bus.sh or rmmod/insmod'ing the driver to recognize drives after boot.`
`21:50.54`	`*** join/#utah vex (n=vex@216.194.126.99)`
`21:51.29`	`findlay`	`hm`
`21:52.26`	`*** join/#utah WoodsDog (n=Woody@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com)`
`21:58.15`	`Sparticus`	`http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6114458.stm`
`21:58.54`	`Sparticus`	`It's funny. Bush accuses Saddam of having WMD, then posts how to build Nukes on a freely accessible website... :\`
`22:02.07`	`^Migs^`	`when is someone going to make SJAX?`
`22:03.32`	`Sparticus`	`I hope everyone here plans to vote.`
`22:03.39`	`Sparticus`	`Please Vote.`
`22:04.07`	`^Migs^`	`vote for what?`
`22:04.19`	`^Migs^`	`Who are you voting for?`
`22:04.23`	`Sparticus`	`The House and Senate election this Tuesday.`
`22:04.28`	`^Migs^`	`cuz if I'm going to vote, I'm voting for the opposite of you`
`22:04.33`	`Sparticus`	`Orin Hatch`
`22:04.42`	`^Migs^`	`NO`
`22:04.47`	`^Migs^`	`voteforpeteashdownhehasawiki!!!!!!!!`
`22:05.23`	`Sparticus`	`Mostly because Chris Cannon can't even count his toes.`
`22:07.23`	`Sparticus`	`I wish Utah had a Democratic Candidate or two.`
`22:09.41`	`manithree`	`Me too. I like to have somebody to vote against ;-)`
`22:10.58`	`herlo`	`Pete ASHDOWN!!!!!`
`22:11.34`	`harleypig`	`anyone play/use second life?`
`22:12.07`	`manithree`	`Sorry, but anybody that wants to protect the Internet by letting the FCC control it in the name of 'Net Neutrality' ain't gonna get my vote. He runs a great ISP, tho`
`22:12.15`	`Sparticus`	`Pete Ashdown doesn't have a snowballs chance in hell. Thats the problem with being a democrat in Utah.`
`22:13.00`	`Sparticus`	`Honestly, I don't think Utah has any candidates worth voting for this year.`
`22:13.23`	`manithree`	`From either party`
`22:13.26`	`harleypig`	`wouldn't matter if he were a republican ... Utahns don't like change.`
`22:13.37`	`manithree`	`Orrin needs to go, tho`
`22:13.54`	`Sparticus`	`Agree'd`
`22:14.12`	`manithree`	`I'm surprised more Dems don't like him. His voting record is extraordinarily liberal`
`22:14.43`	`Sparticus`	`True, but he still gets on his knee's for Bush.`
`22:14.51`	`manithree`	`Usually`
`22:15.25`	`Sparticus`	`Utah will change.`
`22:15.27`	`Sparticus`	`Soon.`
`22:15.54`	`herlo`	`manithree: what in the world are you talking about?`
`22:16.43`	`herlo`	`Isn't Net Neutrality what most open source people want?`
`22:17.04`	`^Migs^`	`who ever said manithree is open source?`
`22:17.05`	`manithree`	`I love net neutrality. I think net neutrality legislation as it has been proposed sucks`
`22:17.18`	`manithree`	`It's a misnomer`
`22:18.17`	`*** join/#utah mrpull (n=mrpull@205.158.184.126)`
`22:23.13`	`herlo`	`manithree: right, so Ashdown being for Net Neutrality a good thing, and if so, then you should vote for, not against Pete Ashdown, at least on this topic`
`22:23.46`	`manithree`	`No, he's for net neutrality legislation. I'm for net neutrality. There's a HUGE difference.`
`22:24.30`	`manithree`	`He wants to enforce net neutrality by legislating and giving the FCC broad power to determine what ISP's and pipe providers can charge for every service`
`22:25.27`	`manithree`	`I spent a good deal of my previous life dealing with RBOC's, and I can tell you, that model doesn't usually work out best for consumers`
`22:26.06`	`manithree`	`If you like his model, you like Qwest better than voip.`
`22:27.40`	`Sparticus`	`A quote from Pete Ashdowns website "Any legitimate purchaser of media or technology should be able to use their property as they see fit without government intervention."`
`22:28.39`	`Sparticus`	`Seems lika wishywashy`
`22:28.43`	`Sparticus`	`kind*`
`22:28.45`	`herlo`	`manithree, I think he's gotta be for some sort of legislation to attempt to curb what the other side is doing. I don't see his legislation hurting me or being like Qwest. I believe in Pete Ashdown, and I believe in what he is doing. Pete is a man of the [geek] people, if nothing else, and with the reputation he has, I'd vote for him anyday`
`22:28.47`	`manithree`	`Last time I checked, he supported net neutrality legislation. That entails MASSIVE government intervention with ISP's`
`22:29.01`	`manithree`	`Not direct intervention with consumers`
`22:29.38`	`herlo`	`I've met the man as well, he doesn't come across like any other politician I've ever met, and I've met two Utah Governers and several state senators, along with a few others....`
`22:30.17`	`manithree`	`I'm sure he's a great guy. I can't wait to get UTOPIA so I can use XMISSION again`
`22:30.53`	`*** join/#utah tristanbob_ (i=tristanb@137.190.3.107)`
`22:30.54`	`manithree`	`I think projects like iProvo and UTOPIA will do more for net neutrality with less consumer damage than federal legislation any day.`
`22:31.20`	`Sparticus`	`I use iProvo. I havn't been impressed.`
`22:32.18`	`Sparticus`	`10Mbit over a fibre line is stupid.`
`22:32.35`	`^Migs^`	`geez, there's a family here with kids named Kimberlun, Kylee, and Kellynn`
`22:32.39`	`^Migs^`	`seriously, wtf?`
`22:32.41`	`^Migs^`	`weirdo utahns`
`22:34.23`	`harleypig`	`I was at the DMV and was being helped by a girl with the name Mykael`
`22:34.51`	`^Migs^`	`weird, I knew a Mykael in school`
`22:34.56`	`harleypig`	`pronounced Mick kale`
`22:34.59`	`^Migs^`	`maybe it's the same person`
`22:35.03`	`^Migs^`	`yeah, that's how she pronounced it`
`22:35.09`	`harleypig`	`huh`
`22:35.25`	`manithree`	`I don't think UTOPIA or iProvo have to be perfectiProvo and UTOPIA don't have to be perfect`
`22:35.25`	`harleypig`	`she looked to be in her late 20s`
`22:35.35`	`manithree`	`They just have to be good enough so that people can easily switch when comcast starts blocking voip`
`22:35.38`	`^Migs^`	`then some kid in the nursery at church is named Canyon`
`22:35.43`	`synic`	`ok, I know this is a discussion that's probably been had in here before, but if I want to own and play popular songs in Linux, what is my best bet without actually buying the CD? I want it to be legal, I don't care if it's DRM. It just needs to be playable in linux.`
`22:35.43`	`^Migs^`	`that's just retarded`
`22:35.52`	`^Migs^`	`I'm going to name my next kid Chasm or Crevice just to raise a few eyebrows`
`22:35.58`	`manithree`	`I'm going to name my next son Hurricane LaVerkin`
`22:36.01`	`harleypig`	`Buttcrack`
`22:36.02`	`^Migs^`	`haha`
`22:36.08`	`^Migs^`	`Crevice, have you changed your underwear?`
`22:36.12`	`manithree`	`Don't forget the utah Herkin pronunciation`
`22:36.25`	`harleypig`	`heh ... Herkin LaVerkin`
`22:36.39`	`manithree`	`Decided that on our last trip to Zion NP`
`22:39.32`	`manithree`	`Luckily I'm done having kids`
`22:41.30`	`Jayce^`	`harleypig, that girl that was babysitting for me on Saturday... Miquel (same pronunciation)`
`22:41.36`	`levi`	`harleypig: I've got a secondlife account, but I haven't done much with it.`
`22:42.01`	`Sparticus`	`secondlife is fun.`
`22:42.14`	`Sparticus`	`Only game I know of where you can make good money.`
`22:42.17`	`Jayce^`	`synic, allofmp3.com`
`22:42.34`	`Keighvin`	`Tried it (second life) briefly, was unimpressed and uninstalled.`
`22:42.36`	`levi`	`harleypig: I watched a video of a talk given by one of the secondlife tech guys talking about the new script engine they're building on top of mono.`
`22:42.36`	`synic`	`Jayce^: I use that. I'm just not entirely convinced it's legal.`
`22:43.48`	`levi`	`There's a rather limited collection of somewhat popular songs at emusic.com, but I suppose that's not what you're looking for.`
`22:44.00`	`Sparticus`	`http://www.betanews.com/article/US_Official_AllofMP3_Must_Shut_Down/1160062471`
`22:48.50`	`*** part/#utah ^Migs^ (i=Migs@205.122.50.21)`
`22:51.02`	`*** join/#utah neybar (n=jalance@mmcc.dsl.xmission.com)`
`22:53.28`	`*** join/#utah herlo (n=herlo@65.223.8.130)`
`22:54.12`	`harleypig`	`Sparticus: I know how you make money technically in second life, but how do you make money?`
`22:54.33`	`Sparticus`	`Like in real life?`
`22:54.37`	`Sparticus`	`I work.`
`22:55.17`	`harleypig`	`No, how do you make money in second life?`
`22:55.36`	`levi`	`harleypig: There's some sort of a monetary exchange between second life cash and real cash.`
`22:55.38`	`Sparticus`	`Second Life uses a fake currency that you earn by building objects or through buying and selling real estate. This same "fake" currency can be exchanged for US Currency.`
`22:56.11`	`levi`	`harleypig: So, you make and sell stuff in SL, or provide services, or whatever, in exchange for SL cash. Then you cash out to real money via the exchange.`
`22:56.22`	`Sparticus`	`There are people pulling several hundred thousand dollars a year in US currency from this game.`
`22:56.42`	`Keighvin`	`Now THAT's telecommuting.`
`22:57.29`	`Sparticus`	`BBC News actually has a dedicated journalist for Second Life who reports on the SL economy and current SL events.`
`22:58.15`	`Sparticus`	`The US Congress is also looking into legislation on whether or not the exchange in SL should be taxed.`
`22:58.30`	`levi`	`My internet connection at home is too slow to use SL effectively.`
`22:58.46`	`Sparticus`	`What kind of connection do you have?`
`22:58.53`	`levi`	`256k DSL`
`22:58.56`	`Sparticus`	`ouch`
`22:59.10`	`levi`	`Yeah. It's the best I can get, DSL-wise.`
`22:59.15`	`levi`	`Too far from the CO.`
`23:00.12`	`levi`	`I used to have 1.5mb, and it only occasionally dropped out, but something changed and it became totally unusable.`
`23:00.41`	`levi`	`The techs couldn't fix it, so they kept downgrading me until I was left with 256k. Now it's stable. :P`
`23:00.49`	`levi`	`At least it's cheap.`
`23:02.43`	`*** join/#utah neybar (n=jalance@mmcc.dsl.xmission.com)`
`23:02.57`	`Keighvin`	`How cheap is cheap?`
`23:03.46`	`levi`	`I don't remember, actually. I do recall that it would be significantly more expensive to switch to Comcast.`
`23:04.14`	`*** join/#utah TimRiker (n=timr@216.49.181.128)`
`23:04.14`	`*** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ`
`23:04.40`	`Keighvin`	`~whaleres TimRiker`
`23:04.42`	`ibot`	`ACTION invokes the holy power of Miguel, a righeous whale, to resurrect TimRiker in preparation for more beatings`
`23:06.17`	`*** join/#utah spr_ (n=spr@c-24-10-229-14.hsd1.ut.comcast.net)`
`23:07.07`	`levi`	`Okay, the line item on my phone bill is $15 for the DSL line, plus ~$20 for xmission. I'm not sure if having the DSL option on the line changes the taxes at all.`
`23:10.27`	`herlo`	`That sucks!! ATI's fglrx driver doesn't yet have support in Beryl!!`
`23:11.41`	`jsmith`	`What's Beryl?`
`23:11.42`	`*** join/#utah SpecialK (n=sjk36@158.91.242.189)`
`23:11.49`	`Tene`	`fork of compiz`
`23:11.53`	`jsmith`	`Ah...`
`23:12.22`	`jsmith`	`Figures... my shiny laptop doesn't work for compiz or beryl or vmware player then ;-)`
`23:14.34`	`herlo`	`yeah, I am pissed, guess I will have to go back to using metacity until they figure out the details....`
`23:15.47`	`Keighvin`	`levi: You're still getting hosed, then. I'm paying only marginally more through Qwest for the line, same amount for XMission, and I'm getting 1.5mb`
`23:16.02`	`harleypig`	`levi, Sparticus ... I know about the exchange setup ... I guess what I'm asking is, what kind of services do people provide and how do people find out about them?`
`23:16.50`	`levi`	`Keighvin: As I said, I used to have 1.5mb, but it stopped working.`
`23:16.53`	`macnewbold`	`levi: you can get your XM costs down to $12 a month if you want, and I know that on 1.5Mb dsl, it seems to add about $5 to my taxes`
`23:18.49`	`levi`	`Keighvin: Having to setting for 256k DSL pretty much equates to being hosed, though, regardless of the price.`
`23:18.54`	`levi`	`s/setting/settle/`
`23:19.22`	`*** part/#utah manithree (n=blr@c-71-199-35-71.hsd1.co.comcast.net)`
`23:22.25`	`levi`	`harleypig: The ones I've heard about have been stuff like selling clothes, hairstyles, scripted objects that do cool things, etc. Someone wrote a digital signing implementation and set up a notary service.`
`23:23.25`	`*** join/#utah Sparticus (n=Sparticu@63.194.187.135)`
`23:32.17`	`Keighvin`	`~throw herlo`
`23:33.01`	`Keighvin`	`Huh. Generic throw command doesn't work.`
`23:40.50`	`*** join/#utah hatchmt (n=mhatch@71-219-20-54.slkc.qwest.net)`
`23:42.51`	`levi`	`Blah, I have to take a midterm tonight. Shouldn't be too bad, but I'm not looking forward to it.`
`23:43.07`	`levi`	`Especially since afterwards, I have to get to serious work on a paper.`

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